- Is there some Windows software I should be aware of for PQ testing purposes?
+ EDIT: Downloaded Nokia Monitor Test 1.0.0.1 (various test patterns on whatever resolution the PC is at)

- What kind of material I should select to make sure rainbows are a non-issue? Specific DVD titles?
+ EDIT: Should I try some Black&White title?

- Is there a download for Win XP MCE DVD player/decoder? I have built the PC with an OEM Win XP MCE 2005, but there is no "video decoder"?
+ EDIT: Took the 30 day free trial of Nvidia DVD decoder

My screen is flat white wall at the moment, and I plan to paint it gray & frame after I have installed a projector (will be a ceiling mount, 9' ceiling).

Thanks,

Jarno[/QUOTE]

I've used DisplayMate for years testing for testing computer monitors, and should work fine for HTPC. You can check it out at displaymate.com.

Most DVD players/recorders come with DVD player software, otherwise I think you have to purchase the MPEG codec to decode it (usually about $30).

Michael

Here are some results from my test drive last night:

Overall:
- First hurdle cleared: no rainbows for any one of us!
- However, I did see the RBE on a test image with black background and five 16x16 pixel full white squares in the image (in the middle and near the corners).
- Image position from the mounting position seems fine.
- Image is softer than my razor sharp 19" LCD panel, but this is expected (also my screen is just some white undercoat at the moment)
- 116" image has no visible pixels from >10' distances.
- Both 576i and 480i material (DVDs, digital TV) via component inputs was beautiful, I think I saw some of the mentioned deinterlacing artifacts on PAL material (576i, 2:2 pulldown), but it was not bothersome to me, and none of my family members noticed anything.
- WMV 720p clips were AWESOME on this PJ! Can't wait to get more HD material :-)

720p, 768p at HDMI/VGA input:
- Can get 1280x768 WXGA through Analog VGA, but not via HDMI. Might be an issue with the PC, but it seems the HDMI input is not as flexible on the resolutions and refresh rates as the Analog VGA.
- 720p works well through both HDMI and analog VGA
- I did not see any image quality difference between analog and digital inputs for the same (720p) signal

1:1 pixel mapping:
- HDMI has some overscanning on by default, and it seems to come back at times (power-on?) even if removed via the signal menu
- Analog VGA defaults to no overscan
- 1:1 pixel mapping works both via HDMI (after removing overscan) and VGA for both 720p and 1280x768 (WXGA), as well as 1024x768 (XGA)
- With HDMI the REAL mode will NOT map pixels 1:1, but forces a slight overscan. AUTO mode produces 1:1 mapping when overscan is set to 100% (=none)
- Using the shutter features also scales the image: sides on all setting values (other than 0), top and bottom on some setting values (scaling causes non-1:1 mapping). This is a non-issue for sources that are being scaled anyway (lower than 720p)

"Calibration":
- HDMI RGB values are at the "studio" levels: I had to set brightness to 16 to be able to see the difference in blacks between 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 % intensity, when fed from a PC. Via VGA this was not needed, but the brightest white on VGA needed contrast at 10.
- There was some yellowish/greenish tint on the grays, but that is most likely due to my wall colors (greenish), unfinished ceiling (reflective unpainted concrete slab w/ metal sheet surface!). Anyway, tweaking with RGB brightness and contrast made grays "gray" to me.

Vertical syncing:
- Vertical AUTO SYNC seems to work between the vertical frequency range of 47 Hz - 60 Hz. below and above this range the sound of the color sheel (faint whine) was the same tone as the default (OFF) setting (which is at 60 Hz).
- I did set my PC to 48 Hz, and played a PAL (50Hz) DVD: the motion on a horizontal slow pan was slightly "jerky". Setting the vertical scan to 50 Hz resulted in smooth motion.
- On HDMI I did not get image on anything else than 50 or 60 Hz vertical scan rate. May be an issue with the PowerStrip (3.62), since it did show the rates as 100 and 120 Hz, respectively.

Needless to say that I am sold on this! I have reserved a unit, but I don't want to have the warrainty running while I'm finishing the room. I'll get to test drive the unit before I take it to make sure it's perfect :-) I still need to install acoustic panels to the ceiling, finish the screen with proper gray paint, run the wires etc.

Jarno

Thanks Jarno

Very informative post. answers alot of questions.
i just wish the rebate was going for a couple of weeks longer, i want to see whats in the pipeline from CES next month. very tempted.

muncey

PJ Mounted at 96" height at about 13.5-14' back
4" to center lens from ceiling
+ about a 16" offset
+ 54" height of the screen
= the bottom of the screen will be 74" down from where it is mounted (not 74" down from the ceiling where it is 7')

So, 8' (96') - 74" is 22"
The screen will be about 22" from the ground.

Now you said the ceiling slants from 8' to 7'. You need to find out how high the ceiling is 13.5' from projected wall and subtract 74". (i.e. if the ceiling is 7 1/2' high at that distance you would subtract 74" from 90" {16"} The screen would be 16" from the floor)

Hope this helps
-Rob

Rob,

Question. How's the viewing comfort for you at that screen height? 22 inches sounds low to me. I'd like to be in the 30 inch range, based on my calculations and playing around with the riser calculator. If you figure 48 inches for the height of a 100 inch 16:9 screen, the center of the screen woud then be at about 46 inches (48/2+22). The default on the riser calc for 1st row is 42 inches for viewing height from the front row (eye level). So sounds like you're at the middle of the screen versus the bottom 1/3.

Bud

Rob,

Question. How's the viewing comfort for you at that screen height? 22 inches sounds low to me. I'd like to be in the 30 inch range, based on my calculations and playing around with the riser calculator. If you figure 48 inches for the height of a 100 inch 16:9 screen, the center of the screen woud then be at about 46 inches (48/2+22). The default on the riser calc for 1st row is 42 inches for viewing height from the front row (eye level). So sounds like you're at the middle of the screen versus the bottom 1/3.

Bud

For my setup, it is a bit higher. Like 28" due to my 9 1/2' ceiling. If the screen was 20" from the floor, it wouldn't even be a problem except for my 21" high entertainment system. Risers are not an issue for me as I don't have them. I only have a sectional. However, I do prefer to sit at mid screen at a theater, or at least the "top" of the bottom 1/3

...at 1280x720 and according to the manual that means (you can read it under the diagram) that you HAVE to use the HDMI input of the HC-3000. Am I also correct that this diagram tells me that only 50 or 60Hz is possible at 1280x720?

720p works also on the Computer input, and as it can be configured to SCART as well as normal Component, I would expect that 720p works also through the Component input.

The Computer input seems to be more flexible regarding refresh rates than HDMI. With a HTPC & PowerStrip I managed to get 1280x768 at 48 Hz as well. At least on this input it seems that any refresh rate between 47 and 60 is possible, it auto syncs to the signal.

Based on this experience I would connect a HTPC via analog VGA (the Computer input) and leave the HDMI for A/V gear. Also I did not see any quality difference between HDMI and VGA at 720p (50 or 60 Hz).

Jarno

Thanks, Jarno! Great post with a lot of new information. It was good to hear computer compatibility test results.

Out of curiosity, did you use PowerStrip to try to push the 1280 x 768 60 Hz through the HDMI port?

Michael

What's the lumen output after being calibrated to D65?

Is it brighter than the Epson Powerlite Cinema 550? I'm trying to decide between the two...

I hate to be a pain in the butt, but all the question about offset can be answered by looking at page 12 of the HC3000U product manual:

http://bobby.filipi.info/public/HC3000_manual.pdf

The column labeled Hd in the first table on page 12 gives you the offset values for several screen sizes.

Ales



I as well as others are well aware of the offset numbers, perhaps you dont understand. I am asking how much can I get away with, if you read the manual these are approximate values, I managed to get a square image off my 8700 with less offset then what was in the manual.

Out of curiosity, did you use PowerStrip to try to push the 1280 x 768 60 Hz through the HDMI port?

Yes I tried, but plug&play did not include the 1280x768 resolution, only 1280x720, and any changes with current version of PowerStrip would cause the projector to claim "no signal". Through the VGA port the projector synced to almost anything.

It might be that PowerStrip does not properly support the DVI output on my integrated Intel 915 graphics chip, or then the HDMI input on the projector is just much more picky on what it will accept.

Jarno

I as well as others are well aware of the offset numbers, perhaps you dont understand. I am asking how much can I get away with, if you read the manual these are approximate values, I managed to get a square image off my 8700 with less offset then what was in the manual.

1st the numbers in the table are to my understanding exact for the 16:9 screen with the vertical offset at 0 (middle). You have +- 24 pixel offset for the 720p "window" in the 768 pixel panel. For a 50" high screen this is +- 1,67 inches.

2nd, if you are willing to tilt your screen, you can go as near the ceiling you want. Actually a slightly tilted screen would look more "square" to you on your typical viewing position.

3rd, you can "get away with" some tilting of the PJ and still get a "virtually square image". Again, if your eye level would be on the bottom of the screen, then the top of the image should be about 7% wider than the bottom to get the same viewing angle for both bottom and top from the 1.5x the screen width viewing distance. This works better if you can frame the screen after you know exactly where the image borders are. For a 100" wide screen the 7% is 3,5 inches on each side.

Jarno

Yes I tried, but plug&play did not include the 1280x768 resolution, only 1280x720, and any changes with current version of PowerStrip would cause the projector to claim "no signal". Through the VGA port the projector synced to almost anything.

It might be that PowerStrip does not properly support the DVI output on my integrated Intel 915 graphics chip, or then the HDMI input on the projector is just much more picky on what it will accept.

Jarno

this is very interesting/maybe bad for me. I just ordered a Oehlbach 10m DVI/HDMI cable for € 200,00 in the hope that this would ok with the pj! I've read something that the pj can also sync at 60Hz for a R1 dvd movie even tough a R1 movie is 24fps. I will try this weekend with my new HDMI cable if I can get reclock synced on 60Hz for a 24fps movie.

another thing:

I can't get powerstrip send a signal of 1280x720 @48 Hz! When I select 1280x720 powerstrip locks the refesh rate. When I try to select a custom refresh rate I can't get this done!!!???

What am I doing wrong?

And what are the general/best settings to choose in the powerstrip menu where you can manually change the refresh rate? There are some boxes you can check and un-check there.

@Jarno: where are u from and can we skype/email? Are you also using reclock and powerstrip and are u also a R1+R2 user?

btw. I have also a Intel 915GUX motherboard! :)

Lots of questions to answer guys!

the third post of me is about the setup of my screen (there are not enough posts about this so I thought: why not aother one :cool: )

I did some homework so I hope this makes it a bit easier.

In the picture I would like to know what exact distance to pick for the red arrow in order to get my setup correct. Keep in mind that I have a 16:9 screen and only going to watch movies with my screen fully filled (so the diagonal of 2.26m will be used fully).

http://img493.imageshack.us/img493/9224/naamloos7xg.png (http://imageshack.us)





Also I'm wrestling with another thing in my mind:
I bought a ceiling mount which I can turn in many ways. So if I change the pj a few degrees (just one cm or so) I get my screen filled ok. I than only have to make -2 keystone correction and then I get a ok vision and my screen is filled) I'm wondering why people with offset problems just can't use the keysone correction and get their setup also ok?? I read something about that it is best not to use keystone correction by why is this? And if using keystone IS no problem, why is the whole offset thing an issue?

I think I'm thinking something very wrong but can someone please explain what I'm thinking wrong?

ps. Sorry for my bad English!

I've read something that the pj can also sync at 60Hz for a R1 dvd movie even tough a R1 movie is 24fps.

35mm film runs at 24 fps. However, NTSC video runs at 60hz (60 fields or 30 frames per second). When film is transferred to NTSC, it is converted to 60hz by 3:2 pulldown. All NTSC DVDs run at 60hz.

All PAL DVDs run at 50hz (50 fields or 25 frames per second). The 35mm film source is simply sped up 4% to sync with the new rate.

My HC3000 just arrived! WHOO-HOOOO!!! :D

Unfortunately, I can't install it until my iScan VP30 also gets here. :(

35mm film runs at 24 fps. However, NTSC video runs at 60hz (60 fields or 30 frames per second). When film is transferred to NTSC, it is converted to 60hz by 3:2 pulldown. All NTSC DVDs run at 60hz.

All PAL DVDs run at 50hz (50 fields or 25 frames per second). The 35mm film source is simply sped up 4% to sync with the new rate.

thanks!
But why is it that that on my old pj I always watched my R1 dvd's @72Hz and reclock could sync correctly? This sync would suggest that the movies ARE 24fps and not 30fps.....
And why does Jarno try to make a 48Hz profile in Powerstrip?

I'm confused :confused:

3rd, you can "get away with" some tilting of the PJ and still get a "virtually square image". Again, if your eye level would be on the bottom of the screen, then the top of the image should be about 7% wider than the bottom to get the same viewing angle for both bottom and top from the 1.5x the screen width viewing distance. This works better if you can frame the screen after you know exactly where the image borders are. For a 100" wide screen the 7% is 3,5 inches on each side.

Jarno

Won't the image look weird if the top is wider than the bottom, especially if the frame is all 90 degree corners? Unless the top of the screen is tilted forward to compensate for the projector being tilted...

To: SANDERDVD
I went to Mitsubishi-presentations.com and searched around, found and down loaded a screen calculator that contained the HC3000. It was version 1.06. It contains all the dimensions you list and gives you the optimum settings. You can use english or SI units also. I have it on my laptop. Sorry I can't recall or find the link ...

K

When will your review be up CKL?

I'm sorry that the lamp of my HC3000 seems to be broken where it can't be lighted up. I have completed the normal testing but I want to tweak it with filter such CC20R. That's why my review is deferred.

Jarno thanks for the post, it was very helpful, I could move my screen down and get another 3 inches, but the metal peice it hangs on is bolted into my wall unit, would it be better to tilt the screen a bit? And also how much would I have to tilt it. I dont know if tilting would be better then moving it down another 3 inches, because if I move it down, that metal peice has to come out and it will make a mess of my wall unit.

Here is the link to the Mitsubishi projector calculator mentioned above:
http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/calculations/ver1_06/prjcalc.zip

or go to this page for the online caluclator: http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/products/homeuse/hc3000/calculat_b.html

thanks!
But why is it that that on my old pj I always watched my R1 dvd's @72Hz and reclock could sync correctly? This sync would suggest that the movies ARE 24fps and not 30fps.....
And why does Jarno try to make a 48Hz profile in Powerstrip?

The point is that the source material (film) is 24fps, but R1 DVD (=NTSC) is 60Hz. Did you read the link to the 3:2 pulldown text I sent earlier?

I have watched R1 movies with normal 60Hz video for years and been happy with it. 48Hz playback properly synced would give smoother motion, but then, motion on 24fps material (film) is always jerky. Some projectors support the 2:2 pulldown for R1 material w/ 48Hz playback out-of-the-box (e.g. Infocus 7205), while some scalers can do the same, if the PJ syncs at 48Hz (iScanHD). The point is that if you are happy with normal 60Hz playback of R1 material, you should not bother about any of this.

I tested the capability of the PJ to sync out of curiosity, and with the these results I might even try 48Hz playback via the PC if I get proper player SW for that.

Jarno

I'm wondering why people with offset problems just can't use the keysone correction and get their setup also ok?? I read something about that it is best not to use keystone correction by why is this? And if using keystone IS no problem, why is the whole offset thing an issue?

I think I'm thinking something very wrong but can someone please explain what I'm thinking wrong?

If you are happy with the keystone correction then use it. You should trust your eyes, and not read in too much on the posts here. There is no right/wrong about it, just different compromises.

Jarno

@SanderDVD

"What this needs to be"

about 40cm (1/3 of the screen height), but you can shift the 16:9 image up and down a little bit due to the 48 extra pixels the DMD chip has

Ralph

@SanderDVD

"What this needs to be"

about 40cm (1/3 of the screen height), but you can shift the 16:9 image up and down a little bit due to the 48 extra pixels the DMD chip has

Ralph

this is strange. Because at this moment the red line IS +- 40 cm. (40cm is from the lens to the upper screen and NOT from the ceiling to the upper of the screen but I think that you mean this too). However, if I set my pj horizontal and vertical at 0 degrees the visual screen is set way too high above my 16:9 screen. I have to 'roll over' (hope i use the right words :o ) the pj a few degrees. This way I can get the viewing picture in my 16:9 screen but than I have to use -2 keystone correction and that is not what I want (lose queality this way?) am I correct?

What am I doing wrong?

Because at this moment the red line IS +- 40 cm. (40cm is from the lens to the upper screen and NOT from the ceiling to the upper of the screen but I think that you mean this too). However, if I set my pj horizontal and vertical at 0 degrees the visual screen is set way too high above my 16:9 screen. I have to 'roll over' (hope i use the right words :o ) the pj a few degrees. This way I can get the viewing picture in my 16:9 screen but than I have to use -2 keystone correction and that is not what I want (lose queality this way?) am I correct?

What am I doing wrong?
Simply put ... trust YOUR eyes.

Do not get too concerned about -2 keystone correction. Yes, theoretically, you WILL lose picture quality with ANY keystone. No, you will NOT be able to detect any difference unless a) you have better than 20/20 vision, b) sit very close to the projector, and c) your job involves analyzing/reviewing projectors ... and even then, you MIGHT notice a -2 keystone correction.

Trust YOUR eyes. Do not over-analyze keystoning. Just do it and enjoy your projector. There are inevitably some compromises that are necessary when setting up any front projector because there are so many variables to consider: screen height, projector location, ceiling height, ceiling mount size, etc... And at the end of all this, if you can get away with a -2 keystone, I'd say that's a pretty good "compromise."

@ Dragon Reborn und SanderDVD

Using keystone adjustments will lower your brightness and distort your image. I performed an experiment just 15 minutes ago on 2 projectors. Input a DVD and pause with credits on the screen (white text). Without keystone (set to "0") you will see the vertical lines in the text are comprised of perfectly aligned pixels when viewed up close to notice. They are bright white also. Now perform either a +1 or -1 adjustment. You will see the sharp edges are now drawn across 1 2 or even 3 vertical pixel columns. If you look close you will see when the edge moves from 1 pixel column to another there is a decrease in brightness. The edges are now jagged. In fact if you step back you will tend to see additional vertical lines as a bright image edge moves from one column of pixels to another.

All of these distortions will happen in any full motion image you project, you just may not notice it as much. The best performance is with keystone = 0 and a square image.

k

so................................ why can t I get a filled screen that is sqaure?!?!?!?
my heights etc. are ok now I think.....

@sanderdvd

Verify with a level that the projector is not tilted. Also verify with a level that your screen is not tilted. I ran the HC3000 calculator based on your drawing. The bottom of your screen is to be 43,2 cm from the floor. The top of your screen is to be 167,6 cm from the floor or 57,4 cm from the celing.

I have your ceiling height as 225 cm and your screen as 112 cm x 200 cm. I also found an important difference. The calculator claims you must mount the projector between 328 cm and 395 cm from the screen, you must perform a zoom adjustment for 364 cm as show in your drawing.

k

@ Dragon Reborn und SanderDVD

Using keystone adjustments will lower your brightness and distort your image. I performed an experiment just 15 minutes ago on 2 projectors. Input a DVD and pause with credits on the screen (white text). Without keystone (set to "0") you will see the vertical lines in the text are comprised of perfectly aligned pixels when viewed up close to notice. They are bright white also. Now perform either a +1 or -1 adjustment. You will see the sharp edges are now drawn across 1 2 or even 3 vertical pixel columns. If you look close you will see when the edge moves from 1 pixel column to another there is a decrease in brightness. The edges are now jagged. In fact if you step back you will tend to see additional vertical lines as a bright image edge moves from one column of pixels to another.

All of these distortions will happen in any full motion image you project, you just may not notice it as much. The best performance is with keystone = 0 and a square image.

k
Kevivoe, thanks for your experiment. Obviously, keystoning does NOT project a perfect image.

But I can't remember the last time I watched a movie and pressed pause again and again to analyze the vertical lines of the pic.:rolleyes: And, I know I wouldn't lose any sleep over it (-2 keystone). I would challenge you to find a clinically significant difference in a running movie.

My point is: just play it and enjoy it.:)

However, if you're planning the use the PJ as a computer monitor to surf or work, where text use is constant, then, well, that's another story. :D

so................................ why can t I get a filled screen that is sqaure?!?!?!?
my heights etc. are ok now I think.....

How about leveling the PJ and then moving your screen wherever the "square" image happens to be?

I tested this PJ with full zoom, and the calculated offset seemed to be right on.

Jarno

I received the projector but have not hooked it up yet. Two questions:

I thought this model had a design that didn't require filter cleaning, yet in the box is what looks like a spare vent cover and filter. What's that about?

There don't appear to be threads around the lens for a lens filter attachment. Is that correct?

@Dragon Reborn

If you've ever tried keystone on ANY image you would see a degradation I assure you. On a scene with a building or a bridge or anything with a straight line you would notice a less sharp edge due to the keystone. These edges look like multiple stripes compared to the image without keystone. I noticed that a small keystone (+/-1) is much worse than a larger keystone of 5 say for example. The edge is steeper than vertical before keystone so it crosses many pixels and is less noticeble. A circle would be the least susceptible (noticeable) degradation. Keystone correction does nothing to distort a horizontal line. It is the vertical or near vertical lines that suffer much more.

For me this keystone usage is a "do not use" with HD projectors. You will lose definition and your image simply will not be as sharp as without keystone correction.

k

I think you're thinking of the filter that needs to be screwed on. It isn't an extra.

To answer someone's question above the vertical shift of the projector makes it much easier to install as you have at least 2"s of movement flexibility in either direction (up or down). Overall I am happy with the unit as the picture quality is quite good and plenty of brightness even in the economy mode. I have not played around with the settings but I am very happy with the unit. The negatives are the noise level and light leakage from the projector.

The noise level is unacceptable especially when you consider how much effort I spent building my room to minimize stray noises. Certainly I can learn to live with it but if I focus I can hear it during most passages of a movie.

The light leakage from the vent is not a big deal as it is not distracting.

If anyone has any suggested calibration settings for a white/.95 screen it would be appreciated. I am using a screen research screen if it helps.

How noisy is this projector?

If I purchase this projector I would wish to mount it close to the ceiling.

Those of you that state you have 4" from ceiling to center of lens, what type of mount are you using?

Anyone else familiar with a mount for this projector that keeps it close to the ceiling but allows for independent movement of all three axis, I would appreciate knowing.

Thanks

I think the chief universal mount is what you are looking for. It made mounting the projector much easier. As far as offset I like this projector as I was able to mount it tight to the ceiling.

As far as noise I would be shocked if this projector was anything close to 25dbs. My guess is that it is closer to 35dbs. I run it with the lamp in economy mode with the iris closed and the projector is plenty bright for my set up (light controlled room and .95 gain screen). Even with lights on in the back half of the room (not shinning on screen) the picture is still pretty good.

Can anyone give me the bolt/thread size for this unit? I'm heading to the hardware store in a few minutes, and wanted to pick up some supplies for a diy mount before my unit arrives. I've been searching but, can't find that little piece of info.
Can anyone help me?

Yes...4mm x 8mm long.

Ksharp4..Re noise.

I just installed my HC3000 using the same Chief universal mount in a dedicated 12 x 20 x 9 high HT. PJ is 14.5 feet from my 106" Firehawk. On Standard (high) fan the noise is less than my IF4805 on low fan that it replaced.

On low fan it can be heard if you really try...but WAY quiter than my 4805. Perhaps you have a fan or color wheel problem from shipping. From the cine4home site you can see fans are mounted on foam to isolate them from the chassis.

HIHOSteve re mount

I installed the Chief universal mount today. It can be adjusted in all 3 axis and ceiling to lens center about 4.5 inch minimum to about 6 inch max.

I used a Premier PBL-110 mount with my 4805. The Chief is easier to understand and install but the Premier is easier to adjust in 3 axis.

Either works fine.

Thanks Bob......

I have a Peerless mount on my 8700+ and it is an older design that sucks bigtime! It uses a ball and socket joint so it is infinitely adjustable... problem is you cannot move in just a single dimension at a time. Any time you are going to move you are trying to keep all three dimensions balanced at the same time... really poor design.

Forum lurker here, checking in with a quick report.

I received my HC3000 today after ordering it from a Forum Alliance member last week.

Given some of the posts I'd read in this forum so far, one of the first things I checked for was dead DMD mirrors using the all-white test pattern from the projector menu.

Unfortunately, there was one, left side center. And like others have commented, once you know it's there, you can't not see it.

Seems like QC has slipped at TI with this new batch of DMDs.

How would you guys rate this new pj vs. the H78. Street prices for the 78 are not that much more than the HC. I never heard of any dmd mirror issues w/ the 78 or or any other problems for that matter. I was about to pull the trigger on the panny 900 but kept reading about the VB. I was previous owner of an H77 w/upgrade and professional calibration and absolutely loved it till UPS broke it, it's a long story.

thanks

HC3000 reminds me alot of H78 except brighter, and colors had more pop. I went with the HC3000.

I pulled the trigger on the HC3000 today as well. Hopefully when it gets here we wont have any mounting issues I think I can compensate enough for the offset.

For a dead DMD mirror, putting up the white test pattern, what happens with a dead mirror? What does it look like?

Also regarding the gamma, I was wondering what if any preset gamma option people have been using, and if they calibrated it, how do you calibrate the gamma curve? I have DVE but im not really sure.

Several other posts have mentioned a great Mits return policy.

Although a single dead mirror is officially not a defect, the side of Mitsubishi that does front projectors has a reputation of 100% replacement.

I have additional knowledge that confirms this policy.

So if it bothers you, pretend you are a squeaky wheel and get greased.... ;)

Most people would never notice or check it.

For a dead DMD mirror, putting up the white test pattern, what happens with a dead mirror? What does it look like?My guess is that not all dead DMD mirrors will look alike, but in general what one sees are pixels in the matrix (but not The Matrix... whoa) that clearly don't look like the normally-operating mirrors around them.

On mine, the pixel was quite clearly black, though its shape did not appear entirely square... it had somewhat of a slant to it.

Although a single dead mirror is officially not a defect, the side of Mitsubishi that does front projectors has a reputation of 100% replacement.

I have additional knowledge that confirms this policy.Good to know. We'll see how my experience goes.

Edited to add:

Now I'm not so sure that what I'm seeing is a dead mirror. While it seems pixel-sized and is in the right location for a pixel, its shape doesn't seem quite like what I'd expect.

Lousy picture:

http://home.austin.rr.com/hwj/ht/flaw.jpg

Now I'm thinking that I may be seeing a flaw in the lens; there does seem to be some sort of little tiny bubble-like defect deep inside the optics that I can see when the lamp is on.

turn the focus, does the spot move. it looks like a small dust blob to me though.
keep us updated on this please.

muncey

Thanks, can anyone help me with the gamma question though? Based on there settings?

I already received my rebate check! Gotta hand it to Mits on their turn around time for rebates!! woohoo It took less than 30 days.

turn the focus, does the spot move. it looks like a small dust blob to me though.
keep us updated on this please.When the focus is pulled, the "flaw" (for lack of a better term) is completely, sharply in focus when the DMD is at its optimum focus. It gets fuzzy as you defocus even slightly in either direction.

So, if it's not a bad mirror, it's a foreign object that's deep inside the light engine, pretty much on top of the DMD.

I've seen dust blobs on projectors before, and I've never seen anything that was so small and coincidentally about the same size as an individual pixel. They were usually much larger and not as sharply in focus.

Has anyone examined the innards of an HC3000 to know if the engine is sealed or not?

The cine4home.de final test dissected the HC3000U down to it's gizzards.

That does look like a dust speck though.

Have you cleaned the exterior of the lens? Has it moved? Does it move if you tap the lens gently or shake the projector?

Not saying that you should seriously smack your projector though, that would be like child abuse for your new baby!

We're on the 36th page here and yet not one write up of how the 3000 works w/ the Xbox 360. Does anyone have any write ups to give on how the Xbox 360 looks on the 3000?

Can't seem to find anything on the topic. Does this pj do 1:1 pixel mapping on 720p? This will be my deciding factor as if it doesn't then it's a no sell for me.

thanks

Yes it does. I pulled the trigger today from one of the sites sponsers.

I have a concern:

I hope someone can help me determine what I am seeing.

As you can see from my prior posts, I am happy with the HC3000; however, I do have a concern. Excuse me if I do not use the proper terms. I seem to be having a problem with motion. Panning seems mostly smooth, but sometimes motion on the screen is fuzzy. It really wasn't noticable as it is very subtle in most scenes, almost to the point where you are not sure whether it is the actual filming of the movie.

Now I just changed the channel to HBOHD and "The Crush" was playing (terrible movie, I know). There is a scene where Alecia Silverstone is swinging on a swing talking to the teacher in the movie. The bluring was terrible. I kept rewinding it to see it over and over again to the point that it made me dizzy. You can actaully pause it and see the blur

Now, this is not a deal killer for me, but I just want to know if this is 1) "normal" for PJs, 2) "normal" for DLPs, 3) "normal" for the HC3000, 4) a problem with my PJ, 5) a problem with my DVR, or 6) none of the above (please explain). I am using HDMI and have not changed any settings on the PJ.

This was unexpected. Please see the link below to see camera shots from the movie. I took about 25 snapshots. You can see at the top and bottom of her swing, she comes in clear. It is only when the swing is in motion do you see the blur. Any help on this matter is appreciated.

In identifing good or bad, pictures never do justice. #13 is a good example of the blur. I think the "slideshow" is a bit small, but you can still see it.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/looooongtrader/album?.dir=1511&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/looooongtrader/my_photos

Now, this is not a deal killer for me, but I just want to know if this is 1) "normal" for PJs, 2) "normal" for DLPs, 3) "normal" for the HC3000, 4) a problem with my PJ, 5) a problem with my DVR, or 6) none of the above (please explain). I am using HDMI and have not changed any settings on the PJ.


IMO you should get a regular TV and connect it to your STB to see how it looks on it. To me the images look like motion blur in the original film material. Films are shot at 24fps and amount of motion blur depends on how the film is shot. Some amount of motion blur is required, otherwise the motion would look extremely jerky.

It could also be due to de-interlacing defect, but for film source that is rather unlikely.

Jarno

another question:

do most of you guys use or not use brilliance collor?

I use BC..

In the manual it states:

Ask your installation specialist to provide an A/C power switch. Then you do not use the projector, be sure to shut down the main power by the switch.

Has anyone done this? Also, if my throw distance maximum (by Projector Central) is 12'7", should I mount inside that at around 12 feet or so, or should I split the difference between the minimum and maximum?

Thanks,

Dave

Dave,

I would go with 12 feet. As I understand this uses the central part of the lens where it is the sharpest.

It really makes little difference in my experience.

Thanks Bob. Do you have your power outlet switched? This seems like a waste to me.

Dave: I have my projector power outlet switched, but that's mostly because my previous projector was an X1, which ran its fan at low speed even when the projector was "off". Annoying and dusty. With the HC3000, I'll be using the same outlet so I will still be able to cut power to it, but I probably won't bother unless I'm going on vacation or something.

Also, for those that were following my story, Mitsubishi okayed a swap for a new unit with no hassles. Hopefully I will have it by the weekend. Kudos to them and to my retailer for an easy experience.

I can easily have mine switched, but I am afraid of one of my kids accidentally turning it off and hosing the bulb. I would prefer not to have it this way, I just don't understand why the manual would state to do that if it turns all the way off when "off".

There's no harm in cutting the power to the projector as long as enough time is given for the bulb to cool down. Bob Williams (engineer from Infocus) stated in a thread a while back that it is actually better to allow the bulb to cool down this way.

Yes it does. I pulled the trigger today from one of the sites sponsers.

Anyone still on the fence, I highly recommend contacting AVS sales. And be sure to get in before 12/31 while the $300 mail-in rebate is still in effect.

For you lurkers and those who think you can't afford DLP.

You will be very happy with the final price after AVS price and $300 rebate.

Why would you get a Z4 or 900 LCD when the 720 DLP HC3000 costs almost the SAME?

I have seen them all extensively and happy with HC3000.

I'm seriously considering jumping on this instead of the ae9000 because of discrete IR codes and DLP.

However, I'm wondering how much more I'm going to need to spend on accessories with the Chief Universal mount with extensions considering it doesn't have lens shift feature.

My screen is 96inx54in. The projector calculator is stating to place it at 16ft from the screen. The top of the screen is approx 14.5" from the ceiling and I believe the goal is to get the lens 14.5" from top of screen. Since many of you are using Chief mounts, I was wondering if you could help determine the best way to mount this to the ceiling?

How far is the lens from the ceiling with the Chief RPA-U mounted flush to it?

Should I get an extension rod and ceiling plate?

How much give do I have with the HC3000 on this?

I know there is no lens shift. Anybody using the Chief horizontal shift add-on that could help with calculations?

Want to get universal mount and keep it cheap to minimize difference of AE9000 and HC3000U.

Thanks.

I use BC..


other people who use BC or not use it?

With that specific mount the lense center is about 6" from the ceiling. The projector does have some vertical shift capabilities which allowed me to fine tune. I think you can shift the picture about 2" up or down. You may be able to adjust the picture more I did not play around with the maximum as I only needed one inch. I did not notice any impact to the picture quality using this feature.

Personally I did not view the Panasonic but I love the picture this throws off. I think the unit is a little loud but it is not intrusive.

Joseph,
I ordered the chief horizontile shift mount accessory and it was under $50, but I think it ads some height to the mount, but not sure. I'm lucky as a sort because I am coming down from a vaulted ceiling and I got the chief adjustable pole (6-8' in 1" increments) and I need to be about 14" above the screen with my PJ, which won't be a problem. I was more concerned with horizontile shift, so that is why I got the extra mount. Even with all of the mounts, I am WAY under the cost of the H78 which had the lense shift features, but I don't think I'll need them with this setup.

Well, I finally upgraded to the HC 3000. It should be here just after X-mass.
I've been using the NEC LT 150 for 3 years now, so I'm looking for great improvements in this new PJ.
From what I've gleaned so far, I can place this PJ near the floor (where my LT 150 has been located) and I should be able to match it's placement with the HC 3000.
I may have to place it further from the screen by about a foot, but it should be great. (Using a Da-lite model B/totally darkened room)
With the CI scaler and the MOMITSU DVD-V880-DX, all I need is the popcorn popper!
I will give you more details once this puppy is set up.
The best thing...after the $300 rebate, this thing was way less than $2500!
Cheers, Vb

Hmm, Mitsubishi also sells a fitting that you can use to sit the projector upside down so you can put it atop a shelf or something!

http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/download/catalog/hc3000.pdf

go to the last page

BR-H900

Anyone know the dimensions of this?

Looks interesting any guess re cost?

I've been using an X1 for the past couple of years and decided to upgrade finally. For the longest time I was torn between getting a Z4 or an ae900... Finally noticed this projector and found a price that was comprable to the 900. I'm looking forward to getting the projector setup. Anyway, once I get it I'll post impressions and such compared to the X1 for those of you in a similar situation. Have a wonderful christmas and thanks for all your help.

For you lurkers and those who think you can't afford DLP.

You will be very happy with the final price after AVS price and $300 rebate.

Why would you get a Z4 or 900 LCD when the 720 DLP HC3000 costs almost the SAME?

I have seen them all extensively and happy with HC3000.

No lens shift, only a 4x CW, and only 1.3x zoom are some reasons. I'm no Sanyo or Panny fanboy as I am considering the HC3000 as an upgrade to my Z2, but the lack of lens shift is an enormous oversight in any new projector. No lens shift and limited zoom most likely exclude this projector for anyone that actually has a 2.35 screen and likes to zoom to take advantage of the fact.

This is basically the ProjCentral stance as well - comparing the D5 LCDs to the DC2 and DC3 projectors, they liked the added convenience features of the LCDs - Lens Shift and larger zoom range. When it comes to contrast, while the LCDs are catching up, the DLPs still have an absolute black level advantage especially when you turn off the dynamic iris features. Both technologies have their positives and negatives (Rainbows, Lens Shift, Zoom Range, Vertical Banding, SDE, Panel Alignment, Sealed Optical Paths, oh my!) I dont think it's possible to call a clear victor in this price range, people need to take their situations and needs into consideration.
For me, I have good flexibility in placement and I'm not rainbow sensitive, neither am I so close that SDE will be a factor so I'm totally open to both techs. I'm looking at only 2 things - pure video performance (CR / Black Level and Colors) and the reputation of the company for service. Being on my 3rd proj, I know that these are the 2 values that have mattered the most in the long run.

...There is a scene where Alecia Silverstone is swinging on a swing talking to the teacher in the movie. The bluring was terrible. I kept rewinding it to see it over and over again to the point that it made me dizzy...

:rolleyes: . Yeah, sure, blurring. That's why you were dizzy? :p

Hmm, Mitsubishi also sells a fitting that you can use to sit the projector upside down so you can put it atop a shelf or something!

http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/download/catalog/hc3000.pdf

go to the last page

BR-H900

Anyone know the dimensions of this?

I got an idea for a DIY ceiling mount from this, will post pictures when done...

They also show an optional Cinema Filter. Any idea on what kind of filter it is? HC3000 doe not have threads for the filter so is this the only option or are there similar ones from other companies? For me the PJ looks TOO bright and I figure the contrast ratio would be better with a filter rather than reducing the "contrast". Also would be nice to have the lens dust protected?

Jarno

Is it a good idea to use the blank function on this projector when you need to take a 1 hour break between viewings and not turn off the projector?

Also how are you guys handling the on screen display for your receivers. Since my receiver does not have a HDMI input/output my OSD only comes over component. Is there a way to over ride the HC3000 so when you are using HDMI the OSD from the receiver can still be displayed? My solution so far is to not use the HDMI connection though honestly I cannot tell much of a difference between component and HDMI.

I just saw the HC3000 at a local shop and it is impressive. If I didn't have short ceilings I would buy one without question. I watched the 5th Element and some HD and it was sweet. There were a few spots that were texturey(not a word I know) but that was only on the DVD and not common nor very noticable and could have been from any number of things I suppose. The image was being projected on a Dalite Cinema Vision 106" diagonal screen.

I certainly give it two thumbs up.

My one inch DIY ceiling mount:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/18322/cat/507

Jarno

Is it a good idea to use the blank function on this projector when you need to take a 1 hour break between viewings and not turn off the projector?

I would say definitely not a good idea. On my last DLP I stupidly left it running unattended once and didn't realize the DVD player it was connected to had a mostly-black screen-saver that turned on after a few minutes. The projector overheated and blew the bulb.

It's better to keep all of the DMD mirrors actively changing. If you're going to leave the projector unattended for an hour, put on a random TV channel (preferably HD or at least something stretched to 16:9 to use the full panel) and mute the volume.

i know there's a rainbow thread around here somewhere but i can't find so i'll ask it here
i just returned my optoma h31 today
i liked it a lot, great pj except i definitely saw rainbows consistently and sometimes so badly (on poor source material especially) that i almost feel like i'm blinking to avoid them
is the mits likely to give me a better shot at not seeing rainbows?
i think the h31 and hc3000 have the same dlp specs and so i guess there would be no improvement
anybody not see rainbows on the mits that used to see them on other pj's ?

"If I'm curt, then I apologize"

Pulp Fiction?

"If I'm curt, then I apologize"

Pulp Fiction? yes by way of newman in "seinfeld" tipping his hat to harvey keitel, i forget the name of the episode but remember that newman was also "the cleaner" :D

I think the cinema filter shown on the last page of the PDF that was linked to before is for the HC900 and not the HC3000. At least all Google searches on this topic returned sales website that advertise the CF1 filter for use with the HC900.

(http://global.mitsubishielectric.co...alog/hc3000.pdf)

As I mentioned in a previous post, my first HC3000 had a dead mirror or some other obstruction in the light engine. My retailer's tech support was very helpful and got the authorization from Mits to swap it out.

My replacement arrived on Friday and it was a flawless example (and an earlier build, judging from the serial number difference between the two). Firmware revision 2.0, like others have seen. I guess 2.0 is the initial HC3000 rev? Anyone have an earlier/later version? (Hit up-enter-down simultaneously on the projector body to see the diagnostic screen.)

I tried out Jason's calibration settings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6693718&&#post6693718) but they didn't seem quite right, so I am going to hold off on color/gamma calibration until I can get something to help me out (I believe a family member is slated to be getting a ColorVision Spyder2PRO for xmas).

Right now I'm using only component video (via the VGA port) into the projector. Sources are a Panasonic RP62 480i/p DVD player and a SciAtl 8000HD cable DVR. I used DVE to calibrate white/black levels with the DVD player as source, and the HDnet Test Pattern (which I have saved off on the DVR) to calibrate with the cable box as the source.

Results w/DVE were contrast 12, brightness 11. Results w/HDnet pattern were contrast -3, brightness 5.

So far I'm extremely pleased with the picture quality. The increase in lumens over my previous projector (X1) is dramatic and allows me to get away with a lot more ambient light than I used to be able to do.

Below is a pic of my setup. Screen is a 92" HCCV Perm-Wall. The projector mount is DIY and cost about $9 in materials. It's a 1' drop, ceilings are 9".

http://home.austin.rr.com/hwj/ht/htnemo.jpg

HWJ,
Very nice setup and a helpful post.

Jason uses a Silverstar screen with has I think a 4.0 gain. I have seen 2' x3' samples of Silverstar held in front of Stewart 130 white, Greyhawk and Firehawk screens at two Colorado shootouts and there is a big difference and bigtime hotspoting.

Since I have 106' diag Firehawk which would probably be similar to your slightly smaller HCCV. I will try your DVE settings tonight.

Watched 5th Element last night and the picture was great with factory settings with a slight visual tweek of brightness and contrast. I previously had an IF4805.

Keep up the good work and Merry Christmas.

Mine is sitting in a box right now because my screen isn't shipping from Stewart until the 6th of January (damn Christmas got in the way and they closed to two weeks!). I need to fire mine up and check for dead pixels, I guess I'll have to shoot it onto a sheet to test out before I mail in my rebate. BTW, hwj, what type of speaker stands are those?

BTW, hwj, what type of speaker stands are those?They're Standesign BB-75s. Got 'em on sale a couple of years ago for a I-don't-have-to-think-twice price.

Here is the link to the Mitsubishi projector calculator mentioned above: (URLs deleted)


I see the entry for the height of the pole but does the calculator take the ceiling mount into account? The calculator looks like it includes 2.5 inches from the lens to the ceiling? Does it include the space for a flush mount? Which mount?

The projector mount is DIY and cost about $9 in materials. It's a 1' drop, ceilings are 9".

From your picture it looks like the pj is tilted a bit? Was your image offset as expected?

I noticed that I had to tilt mine to get a straight image, and it seems the offset is also couple of inches less than what the calculator gave. I did not notice this when I tested the PJ "floor mounted", but now on the ceiling I checked mine with a level and it definately is tilted so that the back is a bit lower than the front, and the image sides are now straight (checked that with a self-leveling laser). (mine is full zoomed out, if that matters)

Jarno

Could you (HC3000' owners) write something about rainbow effect (RBE) in this model of PJ. Is this effect (in Mits 3000) really so terrible? Is RBE in this unit worse, then in others 1-chip DLP with 4 speed 6 segment colour wheel, or not? (Optoma h57, H31, Infocus 4805, etc).

I want to buy HC3000 in January, but I cannot see it before buying (it's normal in Poland). I have to know this before I spend a lot of money.

Thanks.

(sorry for my bad english)

From your picture it looks like the pj is tilted a bit? Was your image offset as expected?

I noticed that I had to tilt mine to get a straight image, and it seems the offset is also couple of inches less than what the calculator gave. I did not notice this when I tested the PJ "floor mounted", but now on the ceiling I checked mine with a level and it definately is tilted so that the back is a bit lower than the front, and the image sides are now straight (checked that with a self-leveling laser). (mine is full zoomed out, if that matters)

Jarno

How many inches was it off? What was your screen size? Do you think the error increases with screen size? I want a 123 inch screen and I am inches away from discarding this projector as a possibility.

KaKaKaKa

Rainbows are seen by a minority of the viewers. My guess is that about 10 to 15% of the people can see them when they are LOOKING for them. If they aren't told to look for them then probably 5-10% can see them.

I had a 4805 and the big difference to me is the lack of screendoor with the HC3000.

Rainbows have not been a problem with either projector. Also I think that the image processing circuitry may be a bigger factor than color wheel speed once you are at 4X or higher speed.

Your english is fine...much better than my Polish

From your picture it looks like the pj is tilted a bit? Was your image offset as expected?Good eye, it's defintely set with a little more drop in the back than in front, relative to the mount.

I believe the projector itself is fairly level at that angle, though, so the tilt probably reflects the lack of a proper 90 degree angle between my ceiling and the screen wall. :-\

I noticed that I had to tilt mine to get a straight image, and it seems the offset is also couple of inches less than what the calculator gave.I can back up Jarno's experience here. The Mitsubishi projector calculator estimated that the offset for my setup was going to be 15.1". However, in reality, it ended up being 11.5".

How many inches was it off? What was your screen size? Do you think the error increases with screen size? I want a 123 inch screen and I am inches away from discarding this projector as a possibility.

For me the offset was 2 intches less than what I had calculated, for a 113" screen. IMO the difference increases with the screen size.

Also, I was surprised how much the image moved up on the wall, then I streightened up the image. I had leveled the PJ and the image on the wall was slightly wider on the bottom. I did not notice it at first, but then I checked it with a level (laser), and the image moved up about 4 intches or more before it was as wide on the top as bottom. I could easily tilt the PJ up a bit and move image up, and not see the geometry distortion on the wall.

And I still did not use the offset setting, which gives another 2 intches.

Jarno

Rainbows are seen by a minority of the viewers. My guess is that about 10 to 15% of the people can see them when they are LOOKING for them. If they aren't told to look for them then probably 5-10% can see them.

Also I think that the image processing circuitry may be a bigger factor than color wheel speed once you are at 4X or higher speed.

My experience was that with the demo unit I could see the RBE only in specific test patterns. With my own unit (with brand new lamp) the picture is so bright that I see some occasional RBE also in a movie. I have set up the white level with contrast setting to around -25 (maxes out at -30). I also needed to put on some ambient (NOT towards the screen) light to tone down the image, the whites are almost painfully bright in complete darkness (especially sudden flashes after mostly dark scenes)! And this is with lamp mode low, iris closed and gamma mode cinema!

Right now I have a flat (pure) white wall, will paint it "cinema" gray in couple of days. I hope this will help, but plan B is on some sort of filter to scale down the light intensity, that would allow me pumping up the white level and getting better contrast.

Is it just the new lamp, I mean how much it will lose the brightness in the first 100 hours or so?

Jarno

"And I still did not use the offset setting, which gives another 2 intches"

What is the offset setting?

Also can you adjust the iris? I thought in the manual it didnt mention anything about adjusting the iris.

How big is to big for the HC3000? I was thinking of moving up to a 119" 16:9 screen this time around. With my X1 I have been using a 92", but I am thinking the extra size might be cool. My seats are 13' from the screen. Will it be to big for the viewing distance and will the image retain its sharpness? Never had a screen that big and if I am going to do it, now is the time.
I am building myself a BFLF screen and will purchasing a mirror to apply the paint to.

Thanks,
Ben

What is the offset setting?

The panel on HC3000 is 1280x768 pixels, which is 48 pixels taller than the 720p image, or any scaled 16:9 image. The 16:9 "window" can be moved up or down by 24 pixels from its default center position.

Also can you adjust the iris? I thought in the manual it didnt mention anything about adjusting the iris.

HC3000 has remote controlled motorized iris with 2 positions (open/close), iris closed gives better contrast with less light output and open gives more light output, but loses some contrast. I plan to set the room such that I will keep the iris closed when there is no ambient light, and open with ambient light.

Jarno

For me the offset was 2 intches less than what I had calculated, for a 113" screen. IMO the difference increases with the screen size.

Also, I was surprised how much the image moved up on the wall, then I streightened up the image. I had leveled the PJ and the image on the wall was slightly wider on the bottom. I did not notice it at first, but then I checked it with a level (laser), and the image moved up about 4 intches or more before it was as wide on the top as bottom. I could easily tilt the PJ up a bit and move image up, and not see the geometry distortion on the wall.

I am very interested in your comments as I am building a home theatre and would like to know exact measurements before I start framing the wall and cabinets.

Do you mind providing detailed measurements about your setup?

1. Is your ceiling 90° square to your wall?
2. What's your distance from ceiling to center of lens?
3. Calculated offset from center of lens? (I assume you used the HC3000 manual's calculation, from center of lens)
4. Actual offset from center of lens, once your image was squared and straightened up.

I'm a bit confused by your comments. At first, you mentioned that your offset was 2" less than calculated ... is the PJ level at this point? And then you mentioned you could move the image 4" higher ... is the PJ tilted up slightly now, so that you have a squared and straightened image? So, in the end, is your image actually 6" higher than your first estimate?

Thanks for taking the time to measure. :)

Finally, made my decision. Ordered this plus a bunch of chief mounting accessories too. :D I went with the horizontal shift add-on to make up for whatever poor measuring I do. Should be a nice step up from the misaligned panels and blue polarizer issue with my Z2. Need to send that off for warranty service.

question:

I hooked up my HC-3000 last night with my new DVI-HDMI cable. I use as HTPC and thank god my pj CAN display 50 AND!! 48Hz @1280x720!!!! This is great for HTPC users who watch R1 and R2 movies!

Anyway, I have a question about this: As soon as my PC sends out 1280x720 @50Hz my pj suddenly makes less noise. I think this is normal because the scaler or something? But when I switch to 1280x720 @48Hz my pj makes a little more noise than at 50Hz. Is this normal?



and uhhhh.......who use BC?????!!! :o third time I ask it :p

sanderdvd:

How did you set up 48 Hz via HDMI? The version of PowerStrip I have showed the frequency as 100 Hz for 50Hz output, and I was not able to change it. I got 48Hz via VGA, but it is definately nice to hear it is possible via HDMI as well.

The noise difference is because of different spinning speed of the color wheel. You should be able to hear a difference in the pitch of the noise as well. This theory would mean that the noise at 48 Hz is slightly less than at 50 Hz, and I think this is what I have been hearing.

Have you tried the 1280x768 via HDMI? Any success? My PC only offers 720x1280 max resolution via the normal Control Panel setting. It would be nice to know if the full panel resolution also works via HDMI.

Still undecided with BC, mostly on, but no proper calibration done yet :)

Jarno

I received the HC3000 last week but was unable to connect it until after Christmas. I finally did so last night. I have some mixed feelings about it, unfortunately. Maybe some of you can help.

The projector seems capable of producing a very sharp, vibrant, and colorful picture at its best, but on the other hand the picture is frequently very noisy, much more so than my last DLP. Even on "reference" discs like The Fifth Element Superbit, random shots will look so bad as to be unwatchable.

I'm connected to an iScan VP30 scaler by HDMI. With a YCbCr signal, the projector will not display blacker-than-black or whiter-than-white at all. In fact, on the Avia test patterns, even the above-black and below-white moving bars are completely crushed beyond display. Switching to RGB fixes this, but then I get terrible macroblocking on all of my DVD sources, even using players that are not supposed to be prone to it. Basically, any movie shot that has any small amount of grain in it at all turns into gigantic ugly macroblocks. Has anyone else experienced either of these problems with this projector?

I'm going to play around with some more settings in the next day or so as I decide whether to keep the projector or return it. Am I missing something in my settings or calibration that might help? When it looks good, the picture is so good that I am just in love with it, but then about 30 seconds later there will be another shot that looks unwatchably poor. And this is occurring on DVDs that I know to be consistent in quality during the scenes I'm watching.

Also, I did get the projector to successfully sync with 48hz, but the color wheel noise increases in pitch so loudly that I find this basically unusable.

One more thing: The projector does not have a hard power-off switch. This may seem like a trivial complaint, but I have a cat who likes to walk all over everything. I'm afraid that he'll step on the power button and turn the projector on when I'm not there. I find myself having to uplug the power cord after the cool-down, which is a nuisance.

[QUOTE=Jarno]My experience was that with the demo unit I could see the RBE only in specific test patterns. With my own unit (with brand new lamp) the picture is so bright that I see some occasional RBE also in a movie. I have set up the white level with contrast setting to around -25 (maxes out at -30). I also needed to put on some ambient (NOT towards the screen) light to tone down the image, the whites are almost painfully bright in complete darkness (especially sudden flashes after mostly dark scenes)!

Same experiences with you, in dark room i have hurt my eyes with those flashes! Good to have lots of lumens in some settings but in dark room it´s painful.
I have 0.9 gain light gray screen, 84" diagonal. Iris closed, lamp low, cinema gamma. Contrast is -8 but i have added red contrast by 6 and dropped blue by 2.
I have added ND2 filter and now the picture is much more pleasing to my eyes, and those rainbows seemed to disappear also.
With HC900 i removed FL-Day filter when it had run 400 hours, maybe it had dropped something like 30% in brightness by then. This is just quessing, i didn´t measure it.
I use BC now that i have the filter, without the filter the picture was so bright that i didn´t like it.
BC seemed to wash out colors in face for example and made people look pale. Maybe this was because color temperature was too high, i set red contrast up by 6 and blue down by 2 and it helped to keep people look healthy even when BC is turned on.

Josh Z and sanderdvd: what DVD software do you use for 48 Hz playback? I assume you want 48 Hz refresh rate for NTSC movies that originated on film to get rid of 3:2 pulldown and have each frame displayed twice.

I understand that PowerStrip allows you to create custom refresh rates, but I am not able to force my MPEG2 decoder to drop the damn "third" frame on NTSC movies.

Ales

I'm connected to an iScan VP30 scaler by HDMI. With a YCbCr signal, the projector will not display blacker-than-black or whiter-than-white at all. In fact, on the Avia test patterns, even the above-black and below-white moving bars are completely crushed beyond display.


I'vo got the Avia test patterns show correctly with YCbCr by adjusting the brightness and contrast (via VGA input with 15-pin DSUB to component adapter, haven't set up via "Component input" yet).

Switching to RGB fixes this, but then I get terrible macroblocking on all of my DVD sources, even using players that are not supposed to be prone to it. Basically, any movie shot that has any small amount of grain in it at all turns into gigantic ugly macroblocks. Has anyone else experienced either of these problems with this projector?


Have you tried it directly from the DVD player by-passing the scaler?

I'm going to play around with some more settings in the next day or so as I decide whether to keep the projector or return it. Am I missing something in my settings or calibration that might help? When it looks good, the picture is so good that I am just in love with it, but then about 30 seconds later there will be another shot that looks unwatchably poor. And this is occurring on DVDs that I know to be consistent in quality during the scenes I'm watching.

The only "bad" stuff I've seen are some incorrect de-interlacing done by the PJ from my non-progressive DVD player. This was on PAL DVD, and it was reported by cine4home review as well.

Also, I did get the projector to successfully sync with 48hz, but the color wheel noise increases in pitch so loudly that I find this basically unusable.

This is weird, since the loudest color wheel noise I get it at 60Hz, it never gets louder than that? But this has been from a PC at 1280x768 res with PowerStrip, as I do not have any video sources capable of 48Hz. But my experience is that 48Hz is very close to 50Hz noise-wise, which is much less noisy than 60Hz.

Jarno

I use BC now that i have the filter, without the filter the picture was so bright that i didn´t like it.

What kind of filter you have, and how it is attached?

Jarno

I would say definitely not a good idea. On my last DLP I stupidly left it running unattended once and didn't realize the DVD player it was connected to had a mostly-black screen-saver that turned on after a few minutes. The projector overheated and blew the bulb.

It's better to keep all of the DMD mirrors actively changing. If you're going to leave the projector unattended for an hour, put on a random TV channel (preferably HD or at least something stretched to 16:9 to use the full panel) and mute the volume.

I am very interested in this. I've not heard this before. Since the HC3000 has 768 vertical resolution, then it would seem that running HD all the time would leave 48 lines unused, and by your description, they would be ruined from lack of use.

Michael

What kind of filter you have, and how it is attached?

Jarno

Hoya HMC NDx2 ,52mm. Attached with adhesive tape.
Watched Aliens last night. Strobo effects and dark scenes got tears coming from eyes. Dropped contrast to -10, it helped a little. Maybe i should have bought NDx3 filter to cut light output some more...or use sunglasses :cool:

Has anyone seen the H78/79 or the Infocus 7205/7210 and knows how they compare to this projector from a PQ standpoint?

The mounting restrictions on the HC3000 has me looking at other projectors but I did like it.

Any input would be very helpful.

Thanks.

Josh Z and sanderdvd: what DVD software do you use for 48 Hz playback? I assume you want 48 Hz refresh rate for NTSC movies that originated on film to get rid of 3:2 pulldown and have each frame displayed twice.

I sent 48hz using an iScan VP30 scaler. I was really just doing it as a test. I don't know that converting the DVD player's 60hz output to 48hz by the scaler will accurately recreate the original frames.

I am very interested in this. I've not heard this before. Since the HC3000 has 768 vertical resolution, then it would seem that running HD all the time would leave 48 lines unused, and by your description, they would be ruined from lack of use.

No, I'm not saying that the DMD will be ruined or that mirrors will "stick" or anything like that. What happens when you project an all-black image is that the mirrors are reflecting heat back inside the projector, which runs the risk of overheating the lamp if left in that state for too long. It's better to keep the majority of your image actively moving and changing so that the heat is reflected outwards. I learned this from experience.

Projecting a 1280x720 image with 48 lines unused shouldn't be an issue, because you're reflecting 94% of the light outwards and that should be more than enough. Even watching a 4:3 pillarboxed image of a dark movie I doubt would cause any problems. It's really only an issue if you project an all-black image for an excessively long time, which is what happened to me when my DVD player's black screen-saver came on.

I don't think there's any cause for concern here. I just don't recommend blanking the image if the projector is left unattended.

I'vo got the Avia test patterns show correctly with YCbCr by adjusting the brightness and contrast (via VGA input with 15-pin DSUB to component adapter, haven't set up via "Component input" yet).

Have you tried it directly from the DVD player by-passing the scaler?

The only "bad" stuff I've seen are some incorrect de-interlacing done by the PJ from my non-progressive DVD player. This was on PAL DVD, and it was reported by cine4home review as well.

I did extensive testing last night and got some very weird, inconsistent results. At first, the problem was that sending an RGB image via HDMI resulted in terrible macroblocking, but switching to YCbCr this went away (though I still can't pass blacker-than-black or whiter-than-white with YCbCr). So I decided to switch to a VGA cable on the "Computer" input to see if that helped. Maybe I just had a bad HDMI cable or something? Well, that wasn't it. The macroblocking was just as bad if not worse there.

So I switched back to HDMI, and now the weirdness begins. Not only do I still get macroblocking via RGB, it actually gets much much worse when I try YCbCr from that point on. On a grainy shot, 50% of the screen is covered by macroblocks. I have no explanation for why YCbCr was better before but worse now. I tried all manner of unplugging cables, switching inputs, etc. and I couldn't get my results to change. In fact, after about an hour the "Auto" function on the projector stopped syncing properly with YCbCr at all! I had to manually go in and change the projector's input mode to YCbCr, whereas before it would automatically resync.

So I'm back at RGB, and playing around with settings I discover that the macroblocking seems to be caused by BrilliantColor. Turning BC off the macroblocking goes away. With it on, the image is absolutely horrendous. Has really no one else experienced anything like this? I'll try to take some screenshots over the next day or so, assuming I can duplicate the results.

Turning BC off I was able to calibrate the picture to get some very pleasing results. Most of the other noise issues I was having seemed to be the result of too much contrast in the image. This thing is just a light cannon. Turning contrast down helped a little, but I got a much bigger improvement when I added an FL-D filter that had been on my last projector to the HC3000's lens. That really tamed the blinding whites and made noise much less visible. With BC off and the FL-D filter on the lens, this projector can produce a really beautiful picture. Unfortunately, the HC3000's lens does not have proper threads to house a lens filter. Luckily, the 72mm filter from my last projector happens to settle over the HC3000 lens adequately if I hold it in place with a small piece of tape. I will have to remove the filter to put the lens cap back on, though.

This is weird, since the loudest color wheel noise I get it at 60Hz, it never gets louder than that? But this has been from a PC at 1280x768 res with PowerStrip, as I do not have any video sources capable of 48Hz. But my experience is that 48Hz is very close to 50Hz noise-wise, which is much less noisy than 60Hz.

48hz definitely has a higher pitch on my unit. It's not really a volume increase so much as a pitch increase, which to my ears is very noticeable and distracting.

I haven't noticed any macroblocking with my unit connected to S97 through hdmi. I am using BillyTT's setting. I am noticing a lot of motion artifacts though. I am beginning to think that sending an interlaced signal (480i or 1080i through hdmi) is the way to go since the projector will then use the motion adaptive deinterlacing (truevision?). Panasonic S97 can only send 1080i interlaced signal (no 480i) through hdmi. I can reduce the motion artifacts to a minimum when I set my video output to 1080i rather than 480p or 720p. I am also waiting for the new Oppo 970H which is supposed to have 480i through hdmi.

Projector and extension column are due today! :D Already have received DVI/HDMI adapter, mount, ceiling plate and horizontal shift adapter.

Can't wait. Hope to have this installed and running for tonight's CBS programming and another bowl game.

AFAIK "macroblocking" is an artifact of MPEG compression, which is normally not visible due to post-processing of the video signal after MPEG-decoding. This is normally done by the DVD player. However, further processing of the video signal can bring the block boundaries visible again, and I've seen some specific scalers in combination of specific displays being prone to this.

I haven't heard that a display could create macroblocking, but improper settings (e.g. sharpening) could bring the blocks that already exist in the incoming video visible. Anyone aware of display technology (esp. DLP) specific macroblocking issues?

Josh Z: have you tried bypassing the stand-alone scaler yet?

Jarno

HC3000 has less panning artifacts among all 720P single chip DLP. I didn't find it has MB enhancement as well. What kind of motion artifacts do you refer?

There's a downloadable projector calculator (best I've seen) here: http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/calculations/ver1_06/prjcalc.zip

Can anyone verify the power cord length of 2.9 meters (9.5ft)? I don't plan on runnings cables through the ceiling at the moment. Instead I'm thinking about just dropping them down to a high bookshelf to all the system components. I have an 8 ft ceiling.

HC3000 has less panning artifacts among all 720P single chip DLP. I didn't find it has MB enhancement as well. What kind of motion artifacts do you refer?

I completely agree with your statement that HC3000 has the least panning artifacts among all other dlp projectors that I have seen.
I am hyper-sensitive to motion artifacts. I am seeing some blurriness on some scenes whenever there is a motion. This could be very well in the source material that I am watching. I was hoping that a third or fourth generation dlp chip or a motion compensated deinterlacing on some dvd players can solve that. May be I am expecting too much.

I haven't heard that a display could create macroblocking, but improper settings (e.g. sharpening) could bring the blocks that already exist in the incoming video visible.

In that case, I would say that BrilliantColor is one such "improper setting" that enhances macroblocking. I had a lot of difficulty taking decent photos of my screen that would show what I'm seeing, but the following 4 are a decent selection. I took shots with BC on and off, using both RGB and YCbCr settings. As you can see, YCbCr with BC on produced the worst picture. RGB with BC off had the best results (and allows me to pass blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white, which I still can't do with YCbCr).

http://www.mindspring.com/~jzyber/Hero_HDMI_RGB_BCoff.jpg
http://www.mindspring.com/~jzyber/Hero_HDMI_RGB_BCon.jpg

http://www.mindspring.com/~jzyber/Hero_HDMI_YCBCR_BCoff.jpg
http://www.mindspring.com/~jzyber/Hero_HDMI_YCBCR_BCon.jpg

I chose a disc known to be a little noisy in order to accentuate the artifact so that it would show up on my digital camera, but I'm seeing basically the same thing on every disc. Even Superbit titles with maxed out bit rates macroblock pretty badly.

In my experience, macroblocking is more an artifact of an improper gamma curve than artificial sharpening. This isn't reflected in these screen shots, but at the end of the night yesterday after I'd taken the photos I found that by using RGB with BrilliantColor off, and setting gamma to the Cinema base with the "High" setting at its maximum, did the best job of reducing noise and macroblocking.

Josh Z: have you tried bypassing the stand-alone scaler yet?

I have not, because my 2 DVD players are connected to the scaler by SDI and DVI respectively. Obviously I can't connect the SDI directly to the projector, and unfortunately I don't have a long enough DVI-to-HDMI cable to reach to the projector.

I completely agree with your statement that HC3000 has the least panning artifacts among all other dlp projectors that I have seen.
I am hyper-sensitive to motion artifacts. I am seeing some blurriness on some scenes whenever there is a motion. This could be very well in the source material that I am watching. I was hoping that a third or fourth generation dlp chip or a motion compensated deinterlacing on some dvd players can solve that. May be I am expecting too much.

kosha, do you have any specific examples that I could check out?

kosha, do you have any specific examples that I could check out?
I am seeing motion blur mostly on animation movies. Recently I was watching Tarzan and Cinderella (Disney) with my kids and found some scenes were difficult to watch due to motion blur. Even my four year old blurted out, "It's moving too fast." I can't remember the exact scene though. I can look it up again tonight.

I am seeing motion blur mostly on animation movies. Recently I was watching Tarzan and Cinderella (Disney) with my kids and found some scenes were difficult to watch due to motion blur. Even my four year old blurted out, "It's moving too fast." I can't remember the exact scene though. I can look it up again tonight.

I have the Tarzan disc, so if you can find a specific scene I'll take a look. Thanks!

I read all 38 pages and then bought a mitz HC3000 anyway. Hope I did the right thing. I now own an infocus X1 and 102" diagonal 16x9 1.3 gain Da-lite screen. I wanted a little brighter, more resolution and a little better picture all round for primarily OTA HDTV and C band HD movies. I use y pb pr input and may use a lasar disk player thru svideo from my old Pioneer unit but not likely to do a lot of DVDs unless I get a HD unit after they are out a while. . I kept seeing all kind of negative on picture smear on motion, too bright, wrong input choice and other comments. I do not have a super tight buget but am not about to spend 5 grand. After reading all the lamp problems with the Benq 7700 here, I opted to spend another 600 for the Mits and maybe also some on a non free spare lamp and non free mount. Any comments on this prospective for a non tech guy who just wants a good HD projector, no computer, no games, rare DVD use and y pb pr inputs?

I just went from an X1 to the mits 3000 and am quite happy. Brighter, higher resolution, color rendition, true 16:9 are the biggest improvements. I am not experiencing the motion problems of others. Every pj will have some issues, but after viewing the panny and the benq, this seems by far to have the best overall results for me. HD is fantastic.

I feel better already!

Just out of curiosity, I have an X1 mount and am hoping to use it on the Mits to save $ if I can make a simple adaptor plate. What did you do?

I had my X1 on a table top. I just finished ceiling mounting the mits using a new Chief universal mount. The mits attaches in 3 spots, not sure if your old mount will work. Believe me, you will be blown away by the difference between the X1 and this projector. It is a hugh leap forward.

Bill,

I will second being blown away by the Mits. I just received my mits today and I really like it. And it is only shooting onto a tan wall. The exact colors are obvioulsy not there, but after watching a demo disc I experienced zero rbe. In comparison b/w the X1, there is none. My wife walked and just said WOW. Like others have mentioned here it is a light cannon. I had on a couple of can lights and it was still watchable. Now once I get my BFLF screen completed it is going to rock. HD looked spectacular. I as watching the UCLA football game and it was great. At 110" the picture looked fantastic. I too will be using only the component inputs, so I feel you will be in for a treat.

"I really should not have done it, but I am retiring in Feb and made this sort of my retirement bonus. Will have more time to watch it now. I have a Tosh 62hm94 DLP tv for most stuff but the big screen is sure nice for movies. Wanted to move up before I got tight with money. Ya only live once.

Thats right. You only live once. I am only 32 and I keep telling my wife the same thing. You can't die with the money so might as well enjoy live while you can. I have a 42" plasma on the main floor and I see that piece getting used a little bit less as soon as the basement is done.

Bill,

Re X1 mount.

I had a 4805 (same mounting holes as X1) with Premier mount and after buying a new Chief universal mount I realize that a simple adapter plate would have worked.

I earlier had emailed Mitsu customer support and they were no help with a drawing of hole locations.

Once you have the projector it is easy to measure and fabricate the adapter.

I will second being blown away by the Mits. I just received my mits today and I really like it.
Make that #3. Just turned it on to check out placement and I'm floored. Amazing quality. This is what I wanted in my Z2 and never came close. Out of the box it's leagues better. Add a better zoom and lens shift and this would sell like hotcakes.

Too bad the damn HDMI connector has no security. That's going to take some help from the new non stick 3M products to keep the cord from drooping.

What screw size does it take for the universal mount (chief) to the Mits? And how many?

Dave,
Don't recall the size but the chief mount comes with an asst. or screws and the right size is in the bag. There are 3 mounting spots on the projector.

If you're using the Chief you should be able to easily keep the lamp and filter spots clear too. Those calculators really didn't help with my height. I probably need this thing on a 2 inch pole as opposed to the 6-9"

When you try to screw in the 6-9" you may just find that you can't physcially clear all threads at both ends and you may have 6.5" - 10.5" pole. :( I'll live with what I've got after adjustments for the time being. Much better positioning than even my Z2 with lens shift because the old mount couldn't do anything but rotate and swing toward the ceiling. Also at "+5" on vertical position.

I love how the stud sensor and my use of it found nothing as did my us of lamps, but after putting the 3/8" butterfly bolts through there was the joist 1 inch to the left. :) Those holes will be fun to patch when I move out this summer.

Both my Mac and PC are having the menus blocked out. Probably need to reset the DVI Detectives, but if anyone has the proper resoution settings and projector settings I'm all ears.

What happened to Jason Turk's excellent review of the HC3000? I went to show it to a friend earlier tonight, and couldnt find it anywhere, even using the "search" function! I wasnt even able to use the links posted earlier in this thread to access it.

John

Ok. I found out the solution for obiliterated PC/Mac menus. Make sure "Aspect Ratio" isn't "Real" and then go into the last pref pane and change overscan to "100%."

In my experience, macroblocking is more an artifact of an improper gamma curve than artificial sharpening. This isn't reflected in these screen shots, but at the end of the night yesterday after I'd taken the photos I found that by using RGB with BrilliantColor off, and setting gamma to the Cinema base with the "High" setting at its maximum, did the best job of reducing noise and macroblocking.

I did not see any macroblocking in your shots, but plenty of mosquito noise on the "BC on" shots, especially on the sky/building structure boundaries. Macroblocking would bigger (16x16), evenly spaced blocks (more like a grid).

I have not, because my 2 DVD players are connected to the scaler by SDI and DVI respectively. Obviously I can't connect the SDI directly to the projector, and unfortunately I don't have a long enough DVI-to-HDMI cable to reach to the projector.

How about plain old component cable from a DVD player to the projectror?

Jarno

I am seeing motion blur mostly on animation movies. Recently I was watching Tarzan and Cinderella (Disney) with my kids and found some scenes were difficult to watch due to motion blur. Even my four year old blurted out, "It's moving too fast." I can't remember the exact scene though. I can look it up again tonight.

This could be due to deinterlacing losing sync on 2:2 material. 2:2 is only used on "made for video" material (animations) and some TV shows shot on film at 30fps, and on all film based material on the PAL format (25 fps). 2:2 is really harder to de-interlace properly, and cine4home test of HC3000 reported the unit to have some problems with 2:2 deinterlacing.

A DVD player with better deinterlacer might help. I've yet to decide myself whether the problem is big enough to warrant a new player.

Jarno

I have the Tarzan disc, so if you can find a specific scene I'll take a look. Thanks!
I couldn't make myself watch the whole movie again. Anyway, please watch the portions from 1:32-1:35 or 3:12-3:16 (minutes and seconds) and let me know if you see any blurriness.

Jarno, you may be right on dvd player losing sync on 2:2 material and the recovery time probably isn't that great.

Setting the dvd player output 1080i is creating other problems. So I went back to 480p as BillyTT's numbers suggested.

can some one let me know how would Vu Tec Vu Easy screen matches with the HC3000? I have tried this with SharpZ2000 and it was ok. Thanks.

I completely agree with your statement that HC3000 has the least panning artifacts among all other dlp projectors that I have seen.
I am hyper-sensitive to motion artifacts. I am seeing some blurriness on some scenes whenever there is a motion. This could be very well in the source material that I am watching. I was hoping that a third or fourth generation dlp chip or a motion compensated deinterlacing on some dvd players can solve that. May be I am expecting too much.

Although HC3000 has less panning artifacts, it still incurs small degree of blurriness at panning scenes. You means the motion aritifacts relating the deinterlacing.

can some one let me know how would Vu Tec Vu Easy screen matches with the HC3000? I have tried this with SharpZ2000 and it was ok. Thanks.

I ordered my HC3000 from Jason Turk and he said it would work great with the Vu-Easy BriteWhite.

I ordered my HC3000 from Jason Turk and he said it would work great with the Vu-Easy BriteWhite.


Thanks for the info. I am trying to decide between Draper Onyx and Vu-Easy BriteWhite. Appreciate any suggestions on which one goes bettwer with HC3000.

Happy new year.

My wife and I went to Atlanta (2 hours away) Friday on a projector auditioning marathon. Spent over an hour watching the Mits. 3000 and were just blown away by the color/picture. We took "Winged Migration" for demo purposes and selected the Amazon chapter. The parrots were just bursting with color--beautiful, bright picture! We saw no rainbows until a chapter in "Citizen Kane" when we spotted a few (Chapter 4--rainy night in bar) and while they were much less obvious than we'd seen on other DLPs they were still there and Katie complained of some eye fatigue after we left. Admittedly this could be due to our both constantly straining to look for them--and sitting for over an hour way too close to a 106" screen (9 feet).

We then went to a place that carried the Sony HS51, which proved to be so dim and lackluster compared to the 3000 that we never even considered it.

Then on to another store where we were very impressed with the Epson Cinema 800. The 550 had literally just arrived and wasn't set up for audition but the 800 proved a very close second (to our eyes) to the 3000. I knew this store had a DWIN (over $6000) projector and when we walked in I saw the rear room was displaying a dazzling picture and I was sure it was the DWIN--turned out to be the Epson. It wasn't properly calibrated--reds were a bit off--but the colors and picture were very very good.

Last stop we saw a Pana 700--don't think the cheap DVD player was helping but we weren't that impressed, considering what we'd seen earlier (would have liked to have auditioned the 900 but it wasn't available).

Best HD picture we saw was the 3000. In fact, overall the 3000 won, followed closely by the Epson 800 (at $4500). I WANT the 3000 but I DON'T WANT eye fatigue or headaches due to RBE. This is my first projector and the selection/education process is a doozy!!

We may go back to Atlanta on Saturday to spend more time with the 3000 and to audition the 550.

Happy new year.

My wife and I went to Atlanta (2 hours away) Friday on a projector auditioning marathon. Spent over an hour watching the Mits. 3000 and were just blown away by the color/picture......

Nice to hear this about the Mits. I impatiently await for one I ordered before Christmas and can't wait to see what it looks like. I'm sitting about 10' away from a 88" diag. so hopefully my wife or I won't see the rainbows. Not that I'll be looking for the either ;)

For those frustrated at the lack of an indepth review Cine4Home has made available some of their site in English - and I am sure more is to come. Great news and the two reviews offered so far are for the HC3000 and the Sanyo Z4. Hopefully they will have a comparison test of all the D5 contentenders in the near future - since I opted for LCD.

can some one let me know how would Vu Tec Vu Easy screen matches with the HC3000? I have tried this with SharpZ2000 and it was ok. Thanks.

I have my HC3000 matched with a Vutec Vu-Easy Grey Dove screen (92") -- and it looks great. Watched "Batman Begins" last night and the dark scenes had great contrast while bright scenes still popped with color.

I have been reading/researching for 4 months. Went from the Benq 7700, to the Pana 900, then to the Sanyo Z4, now possably the Epson 550. Now you guys are saying the Mitsu 3000 is better than all these others? I can't view ANY of these PJs near Chicago. Which I think is a bunch of BULL. Can you tell me if any of you have seen any of these in person, properly set-up, and which ones. Thankyou, signed going crazy!

Jeff,
It's a pretty subjective thing so it's hard for someone else to tell you that the 3000 would look best. But I'll go ahead and say it anyway! ;)
I had the 7700 and the 3000 up at the same time next to each other and the 3000 is better. I haven't seen the others but being lcd's, I don't believe they will have as good a pic as the 3000. (have seen the panny 700, sanyo z2, sony hs51, etc but I don't think the current crop of lcd's is that much better, especially in the contrast area, posts on this forum seem to support that)

I agree with Brian. I saw the Z4, 900 and several Infocus units at a shootout for an entire day on various screens. Bought a HC3000. Had an IF4805 before that. Happy camper.

Hey Mooney: I am looking at replacing my 4805 with a 3000 as well. Did you find that the offset and range numbers provided by Mits were reliable? Did you notice any difference in PQ depending on where in the zoom range (i.e. min or max or in between) you placed the 3000?

Thanks
Peter

and I am sure more is to come.

That much you can be sure of. I should know. I'm the translator of the two projector reviews :-)

Peter,

Yes I found the throw range and offset per the manual. Had to interpolate for 106 inch diagonal screen. The HC3000 is mounted about 6in back from my 4805 (14' vs 13.5') but I changed screen sizes. These are estimates if you want exact I'll measure for you. Just let me know.

At 13.5 ft my 4805 would throw a maximum of about 103 inch diag...at 14 ft I am about 3/4 to 7/8 full zoom with my 3000. All I have read say best image quality is when the image is using the center (sweet spot) of the lens. PJ at max distance from the screen.

I haven't tested quality at near vs far zoom with the 3000. I know I could not tell any real difference with the 4805.

Cine4Home ENGLISH reviews

It may be obvious to some but it was not to me.

Go to www.cine4home.com NOT cine4home.de.

I must have tried 10 times to get the full review translated on the .de site...

I did not see any macroblocking in your shots, but plenty of mosquito noise on the "BC on" shots, especially on the sky/building structure boundaries. Macroblocking would bigger (16x16), evenly spaced blocks (more like a grid).

In either case, BrilliantColor emphasizes all sorts of artifacts that shouldn't be visible. I have really not found any instance where BC helps the image more than it hurts it.

How about plain old component cable from a DVD player to the projectror?

I'll see what I can do, but the problem is that my DVD players are on the other side of the room from the projector.

Hi guys, have been reading in this forum for many months now. There are a lot of helpful stuff that I have gotten out of this place. I finally went and gotten myself a projector this year, after much deliberation went with the hc3. Been working on the home theater for the past few days, and I came with a little problem. I tested the projector to see what it looks like, and came up with a minor problem. I cannot get to the Zoom1 and Zoom2 output. The manuals says that the image has to be 480p for me to be able to get those two options. I switch to a progressive scan dvd player, had that option selected and still unable to get the two zoom output. Other than that the picture quality is great, even without no screen yet. Managed to get the thing working and watch the OSUvsND game. Anyone having the same problem?




Stupid me :). I searched through my question a little bit more online and found out that S-video could not do progressive scan. Our component wires hasnt come yet, so I was using the dvd player using s-video hookup. Guess that answered that.

If you do happen to be on the German site, you can still enter the english one as they posted the info in the news column on the main page - either way, glad you found it mooney - sorry for the lack of info.

In either case, BrilliantColor emphasizes all sorts of artifacts that shouldn't be visible. I have really not found any instance where BC helps the image more than it hurts it.

Well, I noticed this myself yesterday. Earlier, I did not have any issues with the test unit I loaned for a night. However, with my own unit I have had some rainbow problems, at times too distracting to watch a movie. Somehow this unit is SO much brighter that it is simply too much light for my eyes. Yesterday I finally turned BC off, and that helped a lot. I have a low gain gray DIY 113" screen (which I finished during the weekend), lamp on low, iris closed, gamma at Cinema, and contrast at -30 (as low as it gets). Last night watching Kingdom of Heaven DVD I had only couple of RB issues, when in mostly dark scenes there are some really bright highlights, such as flares, a window open to the sky etc, but they were not distracting any more.

I just borrowed an ND4 filter (should cut light output to 25%), will try what I can do with that. I plan to increase the contrast setting to increase the dynamic range (and thus contrast) in the image, and maybe to switch to ND2 filter later when the lamp dims over time.

Maybe Brilliant Color becomes useful with that, don't know yet.

Jarno

Another happy mits owner reporting in :) Still waiting for the screen, but even projected on my living room wall, the image looks great! This is my first digital actually, my last pj was an ehome 8500 marquee, which i sold about 2 years ago. so, having been watching on a 19" lcd for the past couple years, the hc3000 is a welcome arrival :D

The greatest thing, outta box, is the brightness: even with ambient lighting on, the image is quite watchable. I'd say with iris open, lamp mode standard, and BC on, the hc3000 seems about 3-4 times brighter than the 8500 was. Haven't noticed any RBE (I've never watched much on dlp's, so I'm not even sure what it would look like)... with my htpc hooked up, i've noticed some rainbowish fringing when moving the cursor around real fast, but on regular dvd viewing, i haven't seen anything like this.

Two things that I definitely wasn't used to, coming from a crt, was the SDE and midtone/shadows noise. My seating distance is about 10', and I'm projecting about a 110" image. It's closer than I'd like to be, but I can't move my couch back much further... I tried reducing the image size, but that doesn't seem to really help (it's just smaller SDE versus larger SDE :rolleyes: ). The SDE is mainly noticeable on skintones and very bright areas. Not sure if getting the screen will help reduce it, maybe? I don't really know how SDE is on other digital pj's, maybe its just cuz i'm just not used to it from crt's or lcd monitors, and it'll be less obvious over time I can hope. The other issue, the midtone noise I guess is just an artifact of the dlp's... again, I have no basis for comparing the hc3k to other digitals, I just know it was fairly obvious after viewing a movie or two. Not terrible, or even objectionable, just different from what I've been used to. DVD's with lots of film noise seem to bring the effect out even more so, also.

Other than that, i'm very happy with the hc3k. While I loved my 8500, it just wasn't practical (too loud, it overwhelmed my dorm room, all ambient light had to be eliminated, and due to its 150lb. weight I couldn't move it by myself, and ceiling mounting it was just totally out of the question)--the hc3k has solved practically all these problems (except for noise maybe, it is much quieter, and it pretty much silent in low lamp mode, but I can still hear it slightly in silent scenes when its running standard lamp mode). I'd been looking at digitals for a while, mostly 4:3's (since most my dvd's are that format), ones like the x1 and lt150, but it sounds like the hc3k is a big step up from these units. The size of the projected image, and its brightness, is just astounding!

Some other things I've noticed:

I've been able to achieve 1:1 mapping ok at both 1280x768 and 1280x720, but at 1280x720 the pj has been a bit finicky. The default settings would just cause the pj to either lock up for several minutes, or show "no signal", or sync at a really weird rate. several times i saw the pj sync as MAC16 and XGA43i. Finally, after tweaking the horz. and vert. frequencies in powerstrip, i got it to sync at 720p60. It *seems* to be fixed now, but i have my fingers crossed... if I had a DVI->HDMI cable, I'd try it on the hdmi input as well.
Since switching from 1280x768 to 1280x720, I've noticed some vsync problems too... I'd try tweaking the PowerStrip settings, but am a bit afraid to get it messed up again :) What I've been seeing are some faint vertical bands (very noticeable on all white or all black) and some dot crawl (which I can move horizontally by adjusting fine sync, but not eliminate).
Been unable to get total black (was never able to on the 8500 either, actually, so wasn't totally expecting to with the mits either)... but just wanted to make sure it wasn't a setup issue on my part. Even sending a perfectly black signal from the htpc tot he pj, there's still a great deal of light coming out the lens (is this just leakage?)

Luckily, none of these issues are that noticeable with normal dvd material, only under either contrived conditions or viewing text or windows on the PC desktop.

What are all of you using to see such artifacts? With a htpc I have not seen noise, but I suppose I will take a closer look when I get more time.

What are all of you using to see such artifacts? With a htpc I have not seen noise, but I suppose I will take a closer look when I get more time.

My experience is also that the desktop over VGA or HDMI cable looks clean. Video signals have less resolution on the color channels, and are also typically scaled, so I think that this PJ will show up noise in the signal better (also depending on settings such as sharpness and brilliant color). The REAL aspect mode has no scaling, so that could be used to see what portion of the noise is due to scaling.

Jarno

noise is common on dlp's. i've had 4 dlp's and all had noise to some degree. it's more noticeable with a brighter picture, i think thats why people are seeing it on the 3000. my sharp dt300 has more noise than the 3000. i keep lamp mode low, iris closed and bc off for normal viewing. try defocusing a little to reduce screen door. bc works fine for some animated stuff, i watched heavy metal superbit on new years day and bc on really helped liven up the picture. the oppo player works very well on the 3000 at 720p with a dvi to hdmi cable. xbox 360 looks good also.

muncey

Haven't noticed any RBE (I've never watched much on dlp's, so I'm not even sure what it would look like)... with my htpc hooked up, i've noticed some rainbowish fringing when moving the cursor around real fast, but on regular dvd viewing, i haven't seen anything like this.


What you saw with the cursor was RBE. Even when the PJ is firing R, G, and B on the exact same pixel (micro-mirror) in sequence, the component colors will hit different parts of your retina when your eyes are moving. Now, if the intensity of the image portion is high, the components will stay in your retina (in different positions, hence the "rainbow") like if you watched directly on a flashlight in the dark and then closed you eyes. At least this is my experience.

Jarno

I couldn't make myself watch the whole movie again. Anyway, please watch the portions from 1:32-1:35 or 3:12-3:16 (minutes and seconds) and let me know if you see any blurriness.

Jarno, you may be right on dvd player losing sync on 2:2 material and the recovery time probably isn't that great.

Setting the dvd player output 1080i is creating other problems. So I went back to 480p as BillyTT's numbers suggested.

I saw this yesterday on a PAL DVD "Kingdom of Heaven" in one dim scene where Balian visited the mouintain in Jerusalem, where the scene was still, but two shadowy persons were moving from right to left. I think I saw the deinterlacer of the HC3000 (my DVD player is not progressive) showing that scene per-pixel motion adaptive video mode, where still parts of the image were shown as in video mode ("Weave") and the moving parts have every second line interpolated from the lines up&down of it ("Bob" mode).

A better deinterlacer would have stayed in film mode all the time. The 3:2 pulldown of R1 DVDs is easier to detect and this problem should not exist for most film material.

Jarno

@Jarno:
I hooked up my HC-3000 to my HTPC via the DVI output of my ATI X600 card, send out a 1280x720 signal @48Hz with the latest Powerstrip via a Oehlback DVI->HDMI cable and it worked.....

I ran into something new last night:

first of all you should know that I have a black painted wall and use a very good High Contrast screen.
Let my explain the problem:
when I set my desktop color to black the screen is really black. BUT: when I pop up a WHITE sqaure the black goes greyer. The bigger I make the white square, the greyer the black goes..... Is this normal?
Someone told me that I could have a bad lens/lens scatter.....

Do I have have to return my HC-3000 now??? :(:(:(:(

My guess is that the reflected light from your "black" wall is affecting your blacks.

Before I mounted my screen I projected onto my front wall painted with SW best flat black and was surprized to see an image. Black paint is not totally light absorbing. My HT is black ceiling & front wall and dark grey walls with dark red carpet. I plan to add black GOM with my sound treatment to really make it non reflective.

I just put my High Contrast screen on a white wall with the same results.... :(

Thanks for the info. I am trying to decide between Draper Onyx and Vu-Easy BriteWhite. Appreciate any suggestions on which one goes bettwer with HC3000.

I am also going with Vutec BriteWhite (133" diagonal). Vu-Easy frames offer the best value among all fixed screen products (that I could find).

@Jarno:
I hooked up my HC-3000 to my HTPC via the DVI output of my ATI X600 card, send out a 1280x720 signal @48Hz with the latest Powerstrip via a Oehlback DVI->HDMI cable and it worked.....

I ran into something new last night:

first of all you should know that I have a black painted wall and use a very good High Contrast screen.
Let my explain the problem:
when I set my desktop color to black the screen is really black. BUT: when I pop up a WHITE sqaure the black goes greyer. The bigger I make the white square, the greyer the black goes..... Is this normal?
Someone told me that I could have a bad lens/lens scatter.....

Do I have have to return my HC-3000 now??? :(:(:(:(

That sounds pretty normal for any projector... esp. a dlp which puts out this much light. There's a lot of light leakage from the pj, even with a fully black signal I've noticed... also, if you had a bad lens, it should be pretty noticeable with the general image as well.

Anyone else having issues with the JVC HM-DH5U D-VHS?

I am unable to get the two to connect right. JVC has HDMI -> DVI cable -> Gefen DVI switchbox -> DVI out ->DVI-HDMI converter at projector.

Cablebox with HDCP is handshaking fine with projector. Mac and PC fine. Same cable lengths minus last DVI->HDMI conversion was perfect with Z2 projector. I'm getting various colors and the right side is streaking lines. Seems to handshake but can't tell D-VHS that it is 720p.

That sounds pretty normal for any projector... esp. a dlp which puts out this much light. There's a lot of light leakage from the pj, even with a fully black signal I've noticed... also, if you had a bad lens, it should be pretty noticeable with the general image as well.


what do you mean with: if you have a bad lens?
Are all the lenses on the HC-3000 different?

I m thinking about returning my HC-3000. The black gets very very grey when white comes in...... I bought the HC-3000 especially for its good comments on black level......

and couldn't the cause of my problem be some kind of setting in the pj?

first of all you should know that I have a black painted wall and use a very good High Contrast screen.

Let my explain the problem:
when I set my desktop color to black the screen is really black. BUT: when I pop up a WHITE sqaure the black goes greyer. The bigger I make the white square, the greyer the black goes..... Is this normal?
Someone told me that I could have a bad lens/lens scatter.....

IMO it is due to the light from the WHITE square reflecting back to the screen from the room and thus raising the black level.

Are all your walls flat black? How about ceiling and the floor? Is there any other light source in the room other than the PJ? If not please try it with a small lamp on in the room (but not directly hitting the screen) to see if you still see the variation in the black level.

Have you tried lower contrast settings, i.e. making the white less bright? I'm now using the PJ with a ND4 filter that cuts light output to 25% (ie cutting 75%), blacks are noticeably blacker and whites are still white. Before the filter I had to user the contrast setting -30, now can use 0. This PJ just pumps out too much light to a darkened room.

Do you have any calibration DVDs (Avia, DVE) to test this with other inputs/sources. Avia has test patterns for 10-100 IRE window that would be applicable.

Jarno

IMO it is due to the light from the WHITE square reflecting back to the screen from the room and thus raising the black level.

Are all your walls flat black? How about ceiling and the floor? Is there any other light source in the room other than the PJ? If not please try it with a small lamp on in the room (but not directly hitting the screen) to see if you still see the variation in the black level.

Have you tried lower contrast settings, i.e. making the white less bright? I'm now using the PJ with a ND4 filter that cuts light output to 25% (ie cutting 75%), blacks are noticeably blacker and whites are still white. Before the filter I had to user the contrast setting -30, now can use 0. This PJ just pumps out too much light to a darkened room.

Do you have any calibration DVDs (Avia, DVE) to test this with other inputs/sources. Avia has test patterns for 10-100 IRE window that would be applicable.

Jarno

thxz Jarno! Where can I get a ND4 filter? Do you use this filter AND low lamp mode?

HC3000 finished 6th out of the 8 contenders, while Z4 won the test. Summary of the test (but no results) are online in Finnish only (sorry):

http://www.tekniikanmaailma.fi/?y=2006&p=1&id=1395575

Main reasons were:

1. installation difficulties w.r.t. to the other projectors (limited zoom range, no lens shift)

2. Severe rainbow issues with all individuals testing the projectors

3. Sound level, measured 31 dBA at 1 meter in lamp low mode (Z4 was measured 28 dBA at same conditions)

We all know about the 1, but the RBE might be more of an issue with PAL (50Hz) video sources, since the 4x color wheel will cycle through the RGB components only 200 times a second, compared to 240 times/second for 60 Hz sources (R1 DVDs, TV in U.S.). 5x color wheel for 50 Hz signals would show the colors at 250Hz which would be much closer to the 240 at which the PJ is probably designed and tested with.

It would be nice if Mitsubishi fixed this, and provided an upgrade for setting the color wheel to 4x or 5x speed depending on the incoming frame rate. Could this be possible via a firmware update?

Jarno

thxz Jarno! Where can I get a ND4 filter? Do you use this filter AND low lamp mode?

Yes, I use it with low lamp mode and I have totally reflective ceiling and some light coming in from the other rooms (no door yet :-). And my screen is rather dark neutral grey 113".

HOYA is the biggest manufacturer of these filters, search for "HOYA ND4 HMC" (HMC is Hoya Multi-Coated, which makes the surfaces non-reflective, ND stands for Neutral Density, meaning that there is no color shift).

Filters come in different sizes, but unfortunately HC3000 does not have threading for the filter. Right now I have a loaned 77mm taped on to the HC3000. 77mm is a bit too big to fit nicely. 72mm can be bought for about 30 euros in Finland.

Chances are that if you have any photographer friends, they might have the filter for you to try it out. You could also try ND2 and maybe ND8.

Jarno

I m thinking about returning my HC-3000. The black gets very very grey when white comes in...... I bought the HC-3000 especially for its good comments on black level......

Have you actually measured the black and white levels with a light meter to verify that they are changing? Remember, the human eye's perception of black is also relative to bright images in view.

and couldn't the cause of my problem be some kind of setting in the pj?

Put the lamp on Low and make sure you've closed the Iris if you haven't already.

Filters come in different sizes, but unfortunately HC3000 does not have threading for the filter. Right now I have a loaned 77mm taped on to the HC3000. 77mm is a bit too big to fit nicely. 72mm can be bought for about 30 euros in Finland.

I'm using a 72mm FL-D lens (cuts both brightness and greens to enhance reds) on my HC3000. The 72mm size fits inside the lens housing on the projector, but will fall out if not held in place by a piece of tape.

Josh

Re the 72 mm FL-D filter.

Is this something like what cine4home uses?

Pls advise Mfgr (Hoya or ?) and where to buy.

Is this something like what cine4home uses?

I would have to read through the review again. I don't recall.

Pls advise Mfgr (Hoya or ?) and where to buy.

Yes, Hoya HMC (multi-coat) FL-D is the best. I believe I ordered mine from www.2filter.com, but there may be cheaper sources.

There have been previous threads that go into detail about the benefits of an FL-D filter. Try a search in this forum for terms "FL-D" or "FL-Day" (same thing).

I don't think HC3000 is bright enough to tweak with ND filer. I will try CC20R later.

CLK

I am looking forward to your HC3000 review and comparison with the competition.

Any idea when you will post the review?

@ Josh Z:
do u use a totally other filter than Jarno or is it the same?

what do you mean with: if you have a bad lens?
Are all the lenses on the HC-3000 different?

I m thinking about returning my HC-3000. The black gets very very grey when white comes in...... I bought the HC-3000 especially for its good comments on black level......

Nah, all the lenses should be the same, I thought you were asking if something was wrong with your projector in general. I haven't seen anything wrong with the general design of the lens. Like you, I have the same problem, that a bright white square on a black background makes the background "greyer", but this is due to all the ambient light being reflected back (off carpet, walls, ceiling, couch, etc...).

HC3000 finished 6th out of the 8 contenders, while Z4 won the test. Summary of the test (but no results) are online in Finnish only (sorry):


I was hoping to see the finish order at least....and I do not see that on the page, just a list of the projectors tested in no particular order (at least it doesnt correspond with your reference to 6th and 1st place projectors) Can you post the final results of all projectors tested? e..g 1 to 8 place.

Thx

do u use a totally other filter than Jarno or is it the same?

Different. He's using a neutral density filter, which cuts brightness uniformly without affecting colors. I'm using an FL-D, which both cuts brightness and greens. The FL-D is useful for reducing the green bias of many DLPs and enhancing reds, a common weak spot.

Now, I didn't buy the FL-D for this projector. I had it on my last DLP, which really needed it. I thought the colors on the HC3000 were pretty good with no filter, but the picture was too bright for my room so I put on the FL-D since I happened to have it and it fit over the lens. I figured that if it screwed with the colors too much I'd remove it and buy a neutral density filter like Jarno has. Happily, I've found that the picture looks excellent with the FL-D in place and I think I'll keep it for a while (at least until the bulb is broken in a little more). It may not be needed for everyone's applications.

Just decided to purchase the hc3000, after i got a good deal, and had been trying it out. Getting more in depth, why when I set screen to 16:9 720, and my computer desktop to 720, when I select real, its very thin, shouldnt real just avoid the scaling and produce a full 720 picture. Because when I select real, it looks like 4:3/

I also cant adjust color for some reason when connected to htpc through vga.

And sorry to post again, but I really enjoy this projector so far, as a previous benq 8700+ this was still a definate step up. Its brighter, better colors, more 3d looking, and the shadow detail is much better.

I am just using vga, my DVI-HDMI adapter will hopefully be here tommorow.

Will my calibration be much different for hdmi then it was for vga at all? I spent alot of time calibrating it, now I just remembered im using vga.

One of the forum sponsors has the $300 rebate date extended to 1/31. Didn't see anything on the Mits website. Can anyone confirm this?

I can't adjust color through HDMI for some reason. But that isn't a big deal to me because I can do so using my Lumagen scaler.

I was hoping to see the finish order at least....and I do not see that on the page, just a list of the projectors tested in no particular order (at least it doesnt correspond with your reference to 6th and 1st place projectors) Can you post the final results of all projectors tested? e..g 1 to 8 place.

Thx

I don't have the magazine any more, but I remember that the P900 was 2nd, the other DLP was 7th, and the InFocus SP5000 was the last one, Hitachi and Epson were the 3rd and 4th, but I don't recall in what order.

Jarno

Will my calibration be much different for hdmi then it was for vga at all? I spent alot of time calibrating it, now I just remembered im using vga.

The black and white levels need to be set again when you connect via HDMI. With VGA calibrated settings the blacks are cut off when connecting through HDMI.

I have noticed that I can't get the same resolutions and refresh rates to work via VGA and HDMI, HDMI seems to be much more restricted when it comes to different refresh rates.

Jarno

I'm new here and I hate to interject something that may not apply to this thread, so I apologize if I'm asking in the wrong place.

I'm finished framing my basement and have a little more work to do but have settled on getting a projector. I've pretty much made the HC3000 my choice. I've seen here and at some retailers that the msrp is $2995. *edited* "I just read that I cannot ask what price these are going for now. Sorry..."

Steve

You post will most likely be deleted because you can't talk price other than MSRP.

Just decided to purchase the hc3000, after i got a good deal, and had been trying it out. Getting more in depth, why when I set screen to 16:9 720, and my computer desktop to 720, when I select real, its very thin, shouldnt real just avoid the scaling and produce a full 720 picture. Because when I select real, it looks like 4:3/

You need to select 16:9 for the aspect ratio. If you're computer signal and screen are both 15:9 (i.e. 1280 x 768), then real is the correct AR to use. Don't ask me why, I've just verified it through testing, and not questioned it :) Also, be sure your overscan is set to 100%; when running 720p from your computer, the projector may automatically apply a 97% overscan.

I don't think HC3000 is bright enough to tweak with ND filer. I will try CC20R later.

I don't know if this is due to room conditions, personal preference, my eyesight or what, but I'm now 100% happy with an ND4 filter, which cuts light output by 75% (in camera terms, 2 stops, or need 4 times the exposure time to get the same amount of light).

My conditions are:
- Light-controlled room, dark-ish surfaces
- 113" screen painted matte gray, guessing the gain to be about 0.8
- Contrast and brightness close to defaults (0)
- Lamp mode low
- Iris closed
- Cinema gamma mode
- Brilliant Color: off
- ~30 hour on the lamp

Last night watching ROTK:

- Blacks are really deep, almost impossible to tell the difference between the projected black and real black. However, this changes a bit during the 3+ hours the movie lasted; in the end credits I could easily make the difference. I think this is due to my eyes adapting to the average brightness over time (some lightning on the sides of the screen could help here?)

- Whites are really white, and some bright scenes after longer dark sequencies are almost too bright (I find myself almost closing my eyes or turning away)

- Best of all is that now I don't see any RBE

Obviously the ND4 filter would be too much if there would be any ambient light in the room, but why should there be?

On the CC20R filter, how much it cuts the overall light output?

Jarno

I finally received my HC3000 a couple of days ago and had a chance to play around with it a bit. I had been using the X1 for the past couple of years to take care of my movie watching needs. I went from a regular old TV to the X1 and was blown away. This time, moving from the X1 to the HC3000 I'm even more blown away. I have an XBOX360 and was able to download some movie trailers on XBOX Live Marketplace that are in 720p (MI3, X3, Narnia...). All I can say is :eek:

I am literally blown away by the colors, contrast and sharpness of the picture. I installed the projector exactly where I had the X1 and was able to actually fill the screen I had made. Before I had about 4 inches of unused space as I had incorrectly measured the size of the screen before installation.

So far the only calibration I've done is in using Jason Turks settings which are a notable improvement for sure. I am amazed that this projector hasn't received more attention from people. I've read a lot about the issue people have with the vertical offset but must not quite understand the problem. I have tall ceilings but the top of my screen is not far below the bottom of my projector.

Anyway, this machine performs beautifully and I can't wait for the HD DVD attachment for the 360. Regular DVD material can't hold a candle to the 720p stuff I've been able to view.

On a side note, does anybody know how I can extend the component cable coming from my xbox? With my setup I have to put my system in a very difficult location to get to. What is the most affordable way to accomplish this? Thanks to everybody who posted recommendations in this thread before. I am so glad I picked this projector up!

You need to get female connectors for your component cables. Some online company can probably do that for you.

As far as the projector goes, I'm like you and am blown away by the picture. I went from a 57" RPTV and was ready to be underwhelmed with the picture, but it was just the opposite! Lens shift would have been nice, but not a deal breaker for me. It took me 10 minutes to align the projector with the horizontile slide mount that I bought. The height was just about perfect where I set it (and I have a 7 foot drop from a vaulted ceiling to my mount location). I can't believe how much bigger my room is without that bulky TV sitting in there!

new problem with the HC-3000:

last night I did the finishing touches of tweaking on my HTPC and set up Powerstrip.
I m dealing with overscan (don't know if this is the correct term for sure). My projected screen cannot be seen totally. The picture at the top, bottom, right and left drops out of the screen (sorry for my bad English!!! :( ). I've tried some things with powerstrip but did not solve it untill now. In the pj menu I saw some settings (can't remember which thay were called, I'm at work now) which maybe can solve this problem.

How can I solve this problem?

settings:
I send out a 1280x720 @50Hz signal via Powerstrip via the DVI output of my ATI X600 card, to the HDMI input of the HC-3000. Set up the HC-3000 at 16:9 screen size and HDMI input. The pj. receives the signal ok. I use TT2 for playback my movies.

new problem with the HC-3000:

last night I did the finishing touches of tweaking on my HTPC and set up Powerstrip.
I m dealing with overscan (don't know if this is the correct term for sure). My projected screen cannot be seen totally. The picture at the top, bottom, right and left drops out of the screen (sorry for my bad English!!! ). I've tried some things with powerstrip but did not solve it untill now. In the pj menu I saw some settings (can't remember which thay were called, I'm at work now) which maybe can solve this problem.

How can I solve this problem?

You have set overscan on the projector to 100% ? (maybe a dumb question)

eh, where can I set up overscan? And does it have a negative consequece (artifacts or something?) if you change this?

OVER SCAN is in the SIGNAL menu, under USER (press OK at USER to see the additional menu). You'll want to set the OVER SCAN to 100%. Default with HDMI is 97%, which is ok for 480i/p DVDs.

Woohoo! Ordered the HC3000U from Projector People this afternoon and it has already shipped! Now I'm going to have to go back and slog through this whole thread to see what adjustments I need to connect via my HTPC :-) There's no tweaks thread for this projector? Initially I am going to connect through a VGA cable and I seem to remember that a fair bit of adjustment is needed in this situation...

john

So how are we suppose to adjust color through HDMI?????

So how are we suppose to adjust color through HDMI?????

IMAGE | COLOR TEMP | USER has individual brightness and contrast settings for red, green and blue.

I've got 31 hours on the bulb so far, most of that from test patterns and a few DVDs. I finally sat down and watch a true HD show last night (Lost in 720p from ABC), and damn, it's official, I love this projector. The HD picture has a lot more detail and depth than my last projector.

It took a lot of tweaking, and I still think BrilliantColor is a marketing gimmick that harms the picture more than it helps, but after all the work is done this projector can put out a very nice picture.

I'm going to get a ND filter for the projector, but I'm unsure of which dimension to get... Any tips? :)
Thanks,

Anbjornk

It took a lot of tweaking, ... but after all the work is done this projector can put out a very nice picture.

Now, lets share the tweaks?

You need to get female connectors for your component cables. Some online company can probably do that for you.


Thanks Dave!

It took awhile to find what you were talking about but finally was able to locate them through a yahoo dealer called triangle cables. I was a bit suprised that neither monoprice or Blue Jeans (forum sponsors) had these. They were only a buck each and will solve my problem nicely.

I agree with the above post, if you've spent some time calibrating and have achieved nice results, share your settings with the rest of us (I understand they wont work for everybody but its worth sharing). Thanks!

I'm going to get a ND filter for the projector, but I'm unsure of which dimension to get... Any tips? :)

The HC3000 does not have proper threads for adding a filter attachment. A 72mm filter will fit inside the lens housing just about right, but you'll need to hold it in place with some tape or it'll fall off.

Now, lets share the tweaks?

BrilliantColor off
Lamp mode low
Iris closed
Sharpness -5
Gamma: High +5, Medium 0, Low 0
Color Temp 6500k (for now; I plan to do a full grayscale calibration after the lamp has broken in to 100 hours)
No keystoning or cornerstoning

Adding a filter to cut the brightness helps a lot. I use an FL-D because I happened to have one handy and I don't see any harm to the colors, but a Neutral Density may be more appropriate for others.

That's all I recall at the moment. I do all of my scaling, aspect ratio control, and color settings with an external video processor.

The HC3000 does not have proper threads for adding a filter attachment. A 72mm filter will fit inside the lens housing just about right, but you'll need to hold it in place with some tape or it'll fall off.

Ok, thanks.

BrilliantColor off
Lamp mode low
Iris closed
Sharpness -5
Gamma: High +5, Medium 0, Low 0
Color Temp 6500k (for now; I plan to do a full grayscale calibration after the lamp has broken in to 100 hours)
No keystoning or cornerstoning

Adding a filter to cut the brightness helps a lot. I use an FL-D because I happened to have one handy and I don't see any harm to the colors, but a Neutral Density may be more appropriate for others.

That's all I recall at the moment. I do all of my scaling, aspect ratio control, and color settings with an external video processor.


what do you mean with the settings iris closed? Can't find this anywhere in the manual

I m looking for a dutch .pdf manual of the HC-3000. Can someone post a link? IF there is a link

what do you mean with the settings iris closed? Can't find this anywhere in the manual

IRIS can be operated with the "IRIS" button on the remote control. Pressing once shows the current setting (open/closed), pressing 2nd time will change the setting. The change takes couple of seconds.

Manual is at http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/download/manual/hc3000.pdf

Am I the only one that likes Brilliant color? I find the image to be brighter, and clearer with it.

Unless there is someway to get a bright vibrant image from calibrating with brilliant color off?

Also mine is the japanese unit, is the japanese unit the same as the american?

what is best to pick and what does iris closed or open do?

I was particular searching for the dutch manual of the HC-3000

looking at buying the ELITE EZ FIXED SCREEN for this. It has the grey screen material. ANY ADVICE?

Am I the only one that likes Brilliant color? I find the image to be brighter, and clearer with it.

Unless there is someway to get a bright vibrant image from calibrating with brilliant color off?

Also mine is the japanese unit, is the japanese unit the same as the american?

No, I also like brilliant color but have been trying to decide I don't like it based on the feedback here. I also have the japanese unit, it is the exact same projector except for the japanese manual and initial OSD language set to japanese.

Am I the only one that likes Brilliant color? I find the image to be brighter, and clearer with it.

Unless there is someway to get a bright vibrant image from calibrating with brilliant color off?

Perhaps not everyone has the same problems I do, but I get terrible noise and macroblocking with BrilliantColor on, which goes right away with it off.

BrilliantColor seems to be primarily, or even exclusively, a gamma boost. I find that you can get a bright vibrant image without the noise and macroblocking problems by turning BC off and calibrating the rest of your settings.

what is best to pick and what does iris closed or open do?

Opening the iris makes the picture much brighter and tends to wash out blacks. Closing it cuts the brightness and improves black levels. This projector is a light cannon even with the iris closed, so I don't think too many will want it open unless they have really huge screen sizes or a lot of ambient light in the room and need all the extras lumens.

Perhaps not everyone has the same problems I do, but I get terrible noise and macroblocking with BrilliantColor on, which goes right away with it off.

I don't have even a hint of this with BC on. I wonder how many are. Do you maybe have a faulty unit?
By the way I like what brilliant color does for my setup.

I've had mine installed for a little over a week now and my Stewart Firehawk 88" screen went up Monday Night. I have only done some initial calibration (brightness, contrast, red sat and hue, green sat and hue, blue sat and hue)...all of the color controls I have access to using my Lumagen Scaler. Everything is fed to the display with an Accell HDMI cable (which is an awsome cable...I will be reviewing it over at The Spot later this month). I still have adjustments to make though for HD, because the image doesn't look as good as my DVD due to lack of a HD calibration disc (or signal generator). I am really tempted to buy a used Sencore in order to calibrate the HD inputs properly. I may try and "trick" the scaler that the HDMI out of my 3910 is a true HD signal in order to do this. I'll post more findings when I have some time to take some measurements with Milori with before and after pictures.

Dave

Sounds great Dave! Could you share the specifics as far as calibration goes once you get the image your after.

Thanks.

I just calibrated the HDTV color and if you are feeding a HDMI signal to the projector, the green is WAY oversaturated to the point of being NEON. I had to cut the green saturation in the Lumagen to -80 in order to get green correct. I'm not sure if this is just my combination, but it is way off. I have the color now set for NTSC (DVD) and HDTV with 0% using AVIA and the Color Decoder Check.

Hello. Can someone tell me why i get the message "no signal", when i try to turn progressive scan on in my DVD-player (denon 2800mkII)? And why can't i adjust the hue/tint on the projector? :)

Thank you.

Does it work on interlaced? If so, try power cycling the DVD player by turning it on and off with the progressive turned on and see if it sync's up.

Yes it works on interlaced. I will try what you suggest, but earlier today i noticed that with an NTSC dvd (avia calibration) it worked, but with my other DVD's which are PAL, it doesn't work. Does my DVD only have NTSC progressive scan or something? If so, can I upgrade it without having to pay too much money? :)

I just calibrated the HDTV color and if you are feeding a HDMI signal to the projector, the green is WAY oversaturated to the point of being NEON. I had to cut the green saturation in the Lumagen to -80 in order to get green correct. I'm not sure if this is just my combination, but it is way off. I have the color now set for NTSC (DVD) and HDTV with 0% using AVIA and the Color Decoder Check.

An FL-D filter like I'm using will be helpful if you're getting too much green.

I just calibrated the HDTV color and if you are feeding a HDMI signal to the projector, the green is WAY oversaturated to the point of being NEON. I had to cut the green saturation in the Lumagen to -80 in order to get green correct. I'm not sure if this is just my combination, but it is way off. I have the color now set for NTSC (DVD) and HDTV with 0% using AVIA and the Color Decoder Check.

Interesting results... If you get a chance, please let us know if the same is true of the VGA input as well :) Nice setup by the way!

On another note, has anyone compared running vga, dvi->vga, and dvi->hdmi and found any significant differences? Am I correct in thinking that dvi->hdmi will get passed as analog, not a digital signal? And has anyone compared hdmi->hdmi and found it much better than sending an analog signal @ 720p, for short runs (< 10ft). I'm debating whether I really want to invest in an all-digital video chain.

I just found a firmware update to my DVD-player, I tried installing it and now it works with progressive scan with all my DVD's. But why is the image worse when I use it? The image looks too sharp in a way, there's some kind of ghosting (I think that is what it is called).. especially subtitles looks bad :( They seem to have an extra shadow or something like that

Anyone able to explain that?

Your problem seems impedance related. Make sure your cables are 75 ohm and not 50 ohm.

I don't know what my cable is. It's nothing special, it's very thin. I don't think you can get a cheaper cable than this one :P Any way to see if its 75 or 50 ohm?

I will get a new cable (Supra) soon in any case.

Btw, I use component connection.

It normally says 75 ohm on the cable. If it's very thin you are probably dealing with 50 ohm.

It says nothing on the cable. I'll see if it works with my new cable :)

Could it be the firmware I downloaded that isn't working properly or something?

I just found a firmware update to my DVD-player, I tried installing it and now it works with progressive scan with all my DVD's. But why is the image worse when I use it? The image looks too sharp in a way, there's some kind of ghosting (I think that is what it is called).. especially subtitles looks bad :( They seem to have an extra shadow or something like that

Anyone able to explain that?

I'm going to venture a guess that it could be that you just have a lousy progressive scan DVD player. It might be better to let the projector do the deinterlacing.

On another note, has anyone compared running vga, dvi->vga, and dvi->hdmi and found any significant differences? Am I correct in thinking that dvi->hdmi will get passed as analog, not a digital signal?

DVI can be analog (DVI-A) or digital (DVI-D). Digital is much more common. The digital RGB signal carried by DVI-D is identical to that carried by HDMI.

I'm going to venture a guess that it could be that you just have a lousy progressive scan DVD player. It might be better to let the projector do the deinterlacing.

Well, it's a quite good DVD player (Denon 2800MKII, picture quality like the 2900). But if it's still bad when i get my new cable, you might be right :)

Just an update.
I hooked up the Mits with a Momitsu V880DX DVD player and it's very good!
I upgraded from a NEC LT 150 (1024x768) using a Cyrstal Image Scaler.
The difference is a great surprise!
The colors are more vibrant; PQ is far better; no rainbows or SDE (to my eyes) @ 12' and no more need for an external scaler!!!
I'm using component inputs; Da-lite model B Hi power 100" (4x3) screen.
Using 16x9 mode, @ 720p, I still get an 80" pic and that's fine for my viewing distance.
The PQ is very bright in my light darkened room and the color enhacement this PJ has is spectacular!!!!
For the $$$ spent , I can't see, that there would be a significant improvement in PQ (for my viewing pleasure) unless I spent considerably more!!!
I spent way less than $2500 (after rebate) for this PJ and I considerate it good bargin!!
Now, what to do with the NEC.
If you've got the $$$, I would not hesitate to buy this PJ, unless you've got considerably more $$$ to spend for the more expensive stuff.
That's it.
Cheers, VB