Thank you for the quick responses . I do not require a mount with a ton of adjusment since I have 8' ceilings and do not wish to use any digital keystone correction . I really do not mind the offset as long as the middle of the resulting image is not below eye level (which it should not be with 8' ceilings) . I am considering a 106" screen or is this PJ not bright enough with the iris closed to do a 106" ( I am a black level freak ) .

--- More HC3000U Questions to follow until I get mine and tweak it out , should be getting ISF'd in March by krasmuzik ;) .


-------- Thanks again ,
------------ Jason

I ended up grabbing a solid but inexpensive mount off ebay , not one of those ball swivel deals . It looks like it is really well built and the price was very reasonable . Should be up and running very soon ;) .

-------- Jason

Hey Jason: Interested in why you are switching from the 4805 and why you chose the 3000?

Cheers
Peter

Well basically wanting to move to 720p and the HC3000U would seem to be the best PJ under $2500 (currently) . I considered the Optoma HD72 but the white segment in the colorwheel scared me away (that and how bright it is said to be , I don't want my black levels killed by a light cannon with a white segment since blacks are already enough of a sacrifice with digital PJ's) . No way I am going with the BenQ 7700/Tosh after all the early lamp failures (even more scared on that one) . The fact that many people compare the HC3000U to projectors costing much more says a good amount about the image quality . I do not really care for LCD and while it is coming along it still cannot match the overall DLP image IMO , so the AE900 and Z4 are out of the picture for me . The 4805 is still a great little PJ but I have been hungry for more resolution (especially since the Xbox360) , now I just have to hope that the other aspects (besides higher resolution) can match or best the 4805 ( I am confident that it will ;) ) . I plan to demo the IN76 when it arrives and might even sell the HC3000U if I like it better so expect a good honest comparison when it is available . I am pretty sure that krasmuzik will want to compare it to the IN76 since the HC3000U is really the main competition at this point ... unless of course something else comes out by the time the IN76 ships sometime in April ?

My HC3000U will be HTPC driven via DVI to HDMI so I suspect that I will be in awe for a while ( even though the CRT projector that I just sold would easily beat it there is something to be said for ease of use with a digital ) ;) .

--- I hope I can contribute some good/solid feedback to the HC3000U user group here at AVS :) .


------ Best Wishes ,
----------- Jason

Is this projector sensitive to Macroblocking Enhancement? I'm thinking about getting the Panasonic DVD-S97, but I have heard that it doesn't work well with displays that are sensitive to MB Enhancement. Any ideas???

Does anybody have any opinions on this issue?

Thanks.

Is this projector sensitive to Macroblocking Enhancement? I'm thinking about getting the Panasonic DVD-S97, but I have heard that it doesn't work well with displays that are sensitive to MB Enhancement. Any ideas???

There's some disagreement on this issue in this thread, but I found that the BrilliantColor settings causes a lot of problems with Macroblocking and noise. Those problems went away when I turned off BrilliantColor, however.

There's some disagreement on this issue in this thread, but I found that the BrilliantColor settings causes a lot of problems with Macroblocking and noise. Those problems went away when I turned off BrilliantColor, however.


In my setup I haven't observed any difference in macroblocking/noise with BrilliantColor on or off. I don't see a significant amount of it either way. I think there are several confounding factors here e.g. DVD player, HDMI vs. component, whether the pj or the player is doing scaling, etc.

In any event, the colors on the Mits are excellent even with BC turned off, so I ended up with it off, thinking I might turn it on down the road when the bulb starts to dim noticeably.

In my setup I haven't observed any difference in macroblocking/noise with BrilliantColor on or off. I don't see a significant amount of it either way. I think there are several confounding factors here e.g. DVD player, HDMI vs. component, whether the pj or the player is doing scaling, etc.

In any event, the colors on the Mits are excellent even with BC turned off, so I ended up with it off, thinking I might turn it on down the road when the bulb starts to dim noticeably.

Well, I would like to do the following:

Mits HC3000U
Panasonic DVD-s97
Via HDMI
Not sure about what would do the scaling.....(not sure how this works)

So, do you think this setup will give me problems? Or is another DVD player a better option via HDMI with this projector?(still in a reasonable price range)

Oppo is used by many of us with satisfaction and you will save $$$ vs 97

The fact that many people compare the HC3000U to projectors costing much more says a good amount about the image quality . I do not really care for LCD and while it is coming along it still cannot match the overall DLP image IMO , so the AE900 and Z4 are out of the picture for me .

Interesting - I too have developed a resolution jones and have reached a similar conclusion.

I hope I can contribute some good/solid feedback to the HC3000U user group here at AVS :).

Not much doubt there given your past performance.

Good luck with your new projector (did you go with AVS?)

Cheers
Peter

Oppo is used by many of us with satisfaction and you will save $$$ vs 97


Bob,

That is the DVD player of choice, but the tech support at Oppo has informed me that Oppos normally aren't compatible with Yamaha receivers and I'm running everything through a Yamaha RX-V1600 that up-converts everthing and send it to the HC300U via one HDMI cable. So, I don't have that option. That is why I am trying to find an alternative rout.

Maybe the real question is, how good of a DVD player do I really need since the receiver will be upconverting all of my signals anyway? Maybe I don't need as good of a DVD player as I originally thought.

Any ideas from anyone out there?

Brant

I would doubt that the scaling chips in an A/V receiver are worth a damn. You would be better off running the DVD player directly to the receiver. For your other sources, can the receiver output them as component? That way you won't have a conflict on the projector's HDMI input.

Or just run everything to the PJ in component 480i and skip HDMI entirely. That way you can tweak your colors at the PJ, which you can't do with HDMI.

I personally see little PQ difference between HDMI and component on the Mits. The inbuilt scaler/deinterlacer is very good.

I recently purchased a Mitts HC3000 and I must say that it is amazing. I do have one question that is puzzling me. I am running HD TV via HDMI and everything is great. I am also running a SONY S7000 via component and the image is not stunning by any means. I understand that this player is somewhat "old" technology, but I wouldn't expect it to luck as unimpressive as it does. Which leads me to yet another question. I am tempted to purchase a Panasonic S77, upscaling dvd player, but it seems like a waste to me. Why run an upscaling dvd player when the projector is already upscaling the image to 720p? The only advantage i can see is that all the upscaling is done in the digital domain. Any help would be appreciated.

That is the DVD player of choice, but the tech support at Oppo has informed me that Oppos normally aren't compatible with Yamaha receivers and I'm running everything through a Yamaha RX-V1600 that up-converts everthing and send it to the HC300U via one HDMI cable. So, I don't have that option. That is why I am trying to find an alternative rout.


I thought the 1600 only converts 480i/p analog to 480p digital. So you may want to be looking at a DVD player that upscales digitally to start with (HDMI/DVI)

Well, here is what the receiver is supposed to do:

Yamaha RX-V1600

Fully Analog Video Up Conversion to HDMI and Component Video Output with TBC
De-Interlacing (480i to 480p)
Wide-Range Video Bandwidth (100MHz -3 dB)
2 In/1 Out HDMI Interface for High Quality Digital Audio and Video Data Handling
3 Component Video Inputs

So, what does this mean with the projector? Should I run the dvd player via component at 480i and let the receiver convert it to 480p? I guess this is where I run into the road block. I have so many things that say they will upconvert or whatever and I don't know the best way to do it. The one thing I do know is that I already have an RX-V1600 and the HC3000U. I don't have a dvd player yet and I don't know how to run it when I get one to give me the best picture. That is what I need you guys for. So, where does that put me???

I am still in a state of ahhh in how clear the HD is on this pj... and to think I am only using my tan wall :cool: Buggin with ruud on Discovery HD is amazing!

Here are few pics...

http://www.photodump.org/stored4/HD1.jpg

http://www.photodump.org/stored4/HD2.jpg

http://www.photodump.org/stored4/HD4.jpg

http://www.photodump.org/stored4/HD5.jpg

http://www.photodump.org/stored4/HD6.jpg

UFGolf69 -- The component output of a DVD player (480i or progressive scan 480p) is an analog signal - the DVD player uses a DAC (digital to analog converter) to convert the digital 480i content on the DVD to an analog signal. Using the HC3000 to convert back to digital involves another conversion step -- each conversion looses some detail information (the receiver only does the de-interlacing - it's still an analog signal).

An up-converting DVD player takes the digital signal from the DVD and upscales it directly in the digital domain (no conversion to analog and back again). Therefore, you are supposed to get the best quality. However, I said "supposed", because the up-scaling depends on the electronics used to convert the 480i digital signal on the DVD to either 720p or 1080i.

The best is the Faroudja FL2310 chip used in the Panasonic S77 and S97 and the Oppo 971H (the low cost ones), but it can produce macro-blocking artifacts on some displays. Up-scaling DVD players, that don't use this chip, can have other issues. See the DVD player Forum. The S97 has another benefit, it puts out a very good 480p (analog) output on its component outputs (the S77 is not quite as good) whereas the Oppo component output is not very good at all.

I hope this demystifies the situation for you.

Claus -

Thanks for the input. That makes a lot more sense to me now. So, it sounds like the best way to do it would be to let the s97 send a digital signal to the receiver and out to the projector as 720p or 1080i. The receiver won't mess with the signal since it only converts 480i to 480p will it? I will just send the digital signal via HDMI to my receiver and then via HDMI to the projector. Or, do I have to run it directly to the projector? I hope not, because I would like to run my HD cable and the DVD player through my receiver via HDMI since there is only one HDMI input on the HC3000U.

Do you know if the compatability between the s97 and HC3000U causes enhanced macroblocking? If not, I think this is the way I'm going to go.

I really appreciate you helping out a home theatre novice that is dying to become educated.

Brant

I would doubt that the scaling chips in an A/V receiver are worth a damn. You would be better off running the DVD player directly to the receiver. For your other sources, can the receiver output them as component? That way you won't have a conflict on the projector's HDMI input.

Josh,

I'm not sure if it can or not. Here is the site for the 1600.

www.yamaha.com/yec/products/receivers/RXV1600.htm

I would like to run it all through the reciever if possible because I would like to use multiple HDMI inputs (HD cable and DVD). But, if my picture is going to be greatly affected, I will devise an alternative method. It would also be nice to only run one cable from my receiver to my projector. They will be about 25 feet apart. Any thoughts?

Brant

Occasionally when I turn my projector on it does not lock on the image and the image rolls real fast across the screen very distorted. Does anyone know what might be causing this to happen and how to get out of it when it happens without powering the unit down?

I believe it primarily happens over component inputs.

My equipment is Arcam AVR300 receiver and Sony 777es dvd player

Thanks

HC3000 will not pixel map 1280x720 via HTPC (DVI to HDMI cable) , what am I missing here ?

I have gone through the normal options and cannot get anything even close , is there a trick with the HC3000 that I am not aware of ?

Tracking/Phase are way off and no adjustment seems to correct it via either the HTPC or the HC3000 ... ?

Sending 1280x768 for 1:1 just jitters the image and then it reverts back to 1280x720 .

---- Thanks for any tips on this one because if this is a known issue then I ordered the wrong freakn' projector (it's HTPC or nothing with me) .

---------- Thank You ,
------------- Jason

Figured it out - DOH !

--- the Overscan was sitting at 97% by default .... LOL .

---- I guess they do not assume a PC through the HDMI input .

---------- Jason

I thinks it's set at 97% for pretty much any input, so best check it.
Rick

Yep , you are correct , it is that way on each input that allows Overscan adjustment . You would think it would come at 100% for the default . I was getting pretty bothered that it was not mapping properly and the normal settings that one would adjust to fix it did not work , certainly some momentary confusion ;) .

-------- Jason

After running for several hours I began to see some problems in the displayed image during major scene changes; large sections of the image were slow to update to the new scene.

It looks kind-a like a satelite feed that's just haning on the edge; portions of the screen (multiple ~100x~100 pixel blocks) don't update quickly.

My setup: Mits HC3000 fed from a Yamaha 2600 via HDMI.

I first saw it during the Super Bowl while watching the game in HD (from an Adelphia Motorola/Moxi STB). I switched over to a SD feed (from a VCR) and still saw the problem. I changed the PJ lamp setting to low power; that seemed to help a little bit.

Are there any known heat-related issues with this PJ? Has anyone else seen this (and have a cure!)? Do I have a defective PJ, or should I start pointing a finger at the AV?

TIA!

After running for several hours I began to see some problems in the displayed image during major scene changes; large sections of the image were slow to update to the new scene.

It looks kind-a like a satelite feed that's just haning on the edge; portions of the screen (multiple ~100x~100 pixel blocks) don't update quickly.

My setup: Mits HC3000 fed from a Yamaha 2600 via HDMI.

I first saw it during the Super Bowl while watching the game in HD (from an Adelphia Motorola/Moxi STB). I switched over to a SD feed (from a VCR) and still saw the problem. I changed the PJ lamp setting to low power; that seemed to help a little bit.

Are there any known heat-related issues with this PJ? Has anyone else seen this (and have a cure!)? Do I have a defective PJ, or should I start pointing a finger at the AV?

TIA!

Have you tried feeding a source directly to the PJ, to rule out the receiver?

The Mitsu is on sale this week at Best Buy.

Tempting.....

Well I am mostly up and running with my new HC3000u , the offset is not bad at all and I actually wish is was a bit more . With 8' ceilings and a 4" drop on the mount the bottom of my 84" diagonal screen is about 34 inches off the floor (see pic) . I guess I need to move up to a bigger screen now :D .

http://home.comcast.net/~jlcburg3/wsb/media/19852/graphic_org_pub.jpg


---------- Jason

Have you tried feeding a source directly to the PJ, to rule out the receiver?

Quess I'll have to. Is there such a thing as a HDMI to HDMI (splice?) connector?

Thanks!

Hi good folks.

Has anyone compared sharp xv-z2000 against a hc3000?
Here in Sweden they are both available at the same price.
And I am wondering which one to buy.

Thanks,
Anders

Well I am mostly up and running with my new HC3000u , the offset is not bad at all and I actually wish is was a bit more . With 8' ceilings and a 4" drop on the mount the bottom of my 84" diagonal screen is about 34 inches off the floor (see pic) . I guess I need to move up to a bigger screen now :D .

http://home.comcast.net/~jlcburg3/wsb/media/19852/graphic_org_pub.jpg


---------- Jason
What kind of mount are you using? Looks really nice.

Thanks

What kind of mount are you using? Looks really nice.

Thanks

--- It's a Sanus Systems Universal (model # : VMPR1s) , can be found online for well under msrp . It comes in Black or Silver and each kit has white covers that can be used in place of the Black/Silver (comes with all mounting hardware too) . It is a sturdy mount but a real pain to install . The mount claims 360 degree rotation on the box but it does not rotate at all once you mount it . It has side to side tilt and up/down tilt that can be easily adjusted . If you do not get it centered just right from the start you have to loosen up the ceiling plate screws in order to do rotation , the rotation procedure is where it really gets to be frustrating . I wanted a mount that would keep the PJ as close to the ceiling as possible and this one does great for that with only a 4" drop . It uses 4 thumbscrews to lock the top half of the mount to the bottom half , the PJ can be quickly removed from the mount if needed . If I had to do it over I would buy another mount (direct fit , not universal) but in the end it does what it is designed to do and looks better than many other mounts that I checked out (it is more cost effective than most as well) .

-------------- Jason

Well I am mostly up and running with my new HC3000u

---------- Jason

And the verdict is ? Don't be coy Jason we want details. Is BC good or bad? What did you have to do to achieve a picture you like? I would ask about games but I don't know anything about them; I trust you have included movies in your setup travail.

Cheers
Peter

Peter ,

--- Honestly I am not totally calibrated yet , it will not be ISF'd until sometime in March (after some hours build on the lamp) .

--- BC is both good and bad IMO . Good for gaming where you want that bright colorful image but bad for movies where you want an accurate image . I have spent some time comparing , especially with animation (Toy Story 2 , Shrek 2 , Incredibles , etc.) , and I much prefer BC off (yes , even with Animations vivid colors) . This might be different however for many that are not used to watching an ISF'd image . I will be leaving BC off .



--- Here is my first 'tip' for those that are using an HTPC with the HC3000u . Check the Sharpness setting and play with it until all the ringing is gone from your image . Going back and forth with it makes for an easy detection and you should hit a number where things just snap into place , I think mine was -2 (this is using a DVI-D to HDMI cable) .

------------ Jason

Quess I'll have to. Is there such a thing as a HDMI to HDMI (splice?) connector?

Thanks!


Yes there is. Or you could connect your DVD player via component. Or, since you also saw the problem when using your VCR, connect the VCR directly to the PJ via composite or S-video.

We need to start bugging Mits for a firmware to step the setting on the BC. I know that Optoma is doing it so should not be to hard to impliment. I have always watched ISF'd sets so have gotten very picky. I thing BC is nice, but not it every situation. If you could control the amount of BC to use I think you could come to a good compromise in all situations. An adjustable shutter would be nice also.

An adjustable shutter would be nice also.

The odd thing is that the iris on the HC900 does have multiple steps between open and closed. Since the HC3000 is essentially the same chassis I wonder why this feature was deleted. It can't have been much of a cost savings since the HC3000 iris is still motorized.

We need to start bugging Mits for a firmware to step the setting on the BC. I know that Optoma is doing it so should not be to hard to impliment. I have always watched ISF'd sets so have gotten very picky. I thing BC is nice, but not it every situation. If you could control the amount of BC to use I think you could come to a good compromise in all situations. An adjustable shutter would be nice also.

and adjustments for tint and saturation on hdmi sources.

if the 3000 had the adjustable iris in steps as well as bc adjustments in steps and the tint/saturation adjustment on hdmi it would be perfect.


muncey

and adjustments for tint and saturation on hdmi sources.

muncey

Those adjustments can usually be done at your source ;) .

------- Jason

only saturation on my oppo.

muncey

only saturation on my oppo.

muncey

Bummer , sounds like a prime ISF calibration situation (get those RGB offsets & gains set properly) ;) .

--------- Jason

I am leaning towards this pj but there is one thing that concerns me. Can you see any "rainbow" effect? This unit ranked really low against the panasonic and h78dC3 with respect to the rainbow effect. Thanks for any input you could provide.

I am leaning towards this pj but there is one thing that concerns me. Can you see any "rainbow" effect? This unit ranked really low against the panasonic and h78dC3 with respect to the rainbow effect. Thanks for any input you could provide.

Rainbow is something that varies by the individual , some see it but most don't . I am not bothered by RBE so I do not see it , I actually do not know anybody (friends/family) that is bothered by it either . This unit is every bit as good as the InFocus 4805 regarding RBE and many people that claimed they had RBE issues with an X1 had no such issues with the 4805 (maybe some perspective there) . Best thing to do is to demo a DLP projector someplace and check for yourself , nobody can tell you if you will be bothered by RBE .

--- Now obviously the H78DC3 will have less RBE since it uses a better color-wheel system (faster with more segments) .

-- If you are talking about the Panasonic AE900 then there is no RBE with it since it is not DLP (it is an LCD) .

-- Honestly for the price I do not think you will currently find a better digital Projector than the HC3000u (but you might want to wait another month or two and see how the new InFocus IN76 turns out) .

------ Best of Luck ,
---------- Jason

-- Honestly for the price I do not think you will currently find a better digital Projector than the HC3000u (but you might want to wait another month or two and see how the new InFocus IN76 turns out) .

------ Best of Luck ,
---------- Jason

The IN76 seems pretty underwhelming on paper. No BrilliantColor, no option to use the extra 48 vertical pixels, shorter warranty, and a street price that will probably be equal to or greater than the HC3000. Supposedly it will offer better de-interlacing of 1080i, but this is just theoretical. Yawn.

Anything is possible I guess, but it's hard to see how the IN76 will be better than the Mits.

I agree w/ DaGamePimp. although i see an occasional rainbow it doesn't bother me. no body that has visited my theater has said anything about them, but i have never mentioned rainbows to them so they don't know what rainbows are. i have had mine since december 23 and it has been great. no problems at all. it's brght, quiet, small and projects a better image than my benq 8700+ did (and cost half as much). xbox 360 is amazing on the 3000 and 110" carada BW screen. great value for the money.

as for calibrating grayscale, i have been waiting for the spyder tv pro.

muncey

The IN76 seems pretty underwhelming on paper. No BrilliantColor, no option to use the extra 48 vertical pixels, shorter warranty, and a street price that will probably be equal to or greater than the HC3000. Supposedly it will offer better de-interlacing of 1080i, but this is just theoretical. Yawn.

Anything is possible I guess, but it's hard to see how the IN76 will be better than the Mits.
The one thing the IN76 does offer is a reasonably thought out offset however.

Those of us with basement theaters who want a large screen and have less than 8' ceilings just have a tough time making the HD72 or HC3000 work. I don't want to be looking down at most of the image.

There's other potential advantages to the IN76 as well - full 2.35:1 support on all input types and resolutions (important for those of use with anamorphic lenses), IF's reputation for good OTB performance, 1080i deinterlacing (as mentioned), and it's probably going to edge the HC3000 in brightness.

Lack of BC is not a big deal in my opinion - I'd rather have an accurate image, and the option to use the extra 48 pixels probably sounds better in concept than in reality. Face it, how many people are going to use a custom 15:9 screen with this PJ to take advantage of those pixels? The short warranty is a bit of a downer however.

Don't get me wrong however - the Mits sounds like a great PJ and is on my very very short list. It really comes down to what the IN76 sells for. If it stays up near the current MAP, I don't know if I can justify getting it rather than the Mits. Sadly, getting the Mits would probably mean giving up my Panamorph - and maybe chopping a few inches off the legs of my sofa! :)

The one thing the IN76 does offer is a reasonably thought out offset however.

Those of us with basement theaters who want a large screen and have less than 8' ceilings just have a tough time making the HD72 or HC3000 work. I don't want to be looking down at most of the image.




My HC3000 is ceiling mounted in my basement, which has a 7 foot 7 inch ceiling. The PJ is absolutely level and I am throwing a 100-inch diagonal picture which starts at 26 inches off the floor. My seated eyelevel is almost exactly 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen. I could have a considerably larger screen by tilting the front of the PJ up and shimming out the top of the screen.

The difficulties of using large offset PJ's with low ceilings are overblown in my humble opinion.

It seems like the offset of the HC3000 and HD72 were designed with a 100" diagonal screen and an 8' ceiling as the model. If you do the math you'll see that this setup perfectly conforms to the eyes-33%-from-the-bottom rule. Since your ceiling is only 5" short of the ideal, your setup works fine.

When you start running the numbers with a 110"+ screen and ceilings in the range of 7'5", the numbers don't work as well and you get further and further from the 33% goal. Since we're dealing with very bright, high resolution DLPs, I don't think screen sizes this large are going to be uncommon. Personally I'm thinking of going 110" - 114".

I agree however - most people who complain that an offset is unworkable can probably make it work in their room if they accepted a compromise of some sort. Either a slight tilt and imperfect geometry (perhaps masked by a screen border), or perhaps angling the screen as you mentioned, or just settling for an image that is lower than the ideal. Not everyone finds those compromises appealing however.

Has anybody seen a dang hour (lamp) meter on the HC3000 ?

-- I know it sounds dumb but I can't seem to find it in the menus and the manual that I have does not mention it .

---------- Jason

Has anybody seen a dang hour (lamp) meter on the HC3000 ?

-- I know it sounds dumb but I can't seem to find it in the menus and the manual that I have does not mention it .

---------- Jason


Press Up, down, and enter on the projector body all at the same time to view hours on your lamp.
VB

I am deciding between the HD72 and the HC3000. It seems like the HC3000 gets rainbow complaints for some reason over other comparable projectors. Do you think the extra white segment in the HD72 would help this issue?

I am deciding between the HD72 and the HC3000. It seems like the HC3000 gets rainbow complaints for some reason over other comparable projectors. Do you think the extra white segment in the HD72 would help this issue?

If anything, the white segment will make rainbows worse.

It seems like the HC3000 gets rainbow complaints for some reason over other comparable projectors.


That's because it's a very bright projector. If you run it in high lamp mode with iris open on a small screen, as is often done for demos in venues that don't have adequate light control, the rainbow sensitive will probably see rainbows. Kind of like the IF4805. In low lamp mode with iris closed, and (optionally) an ND2 filter, I doubt it is any more prone to rainbows than any other 4x color wheel DLP. And even in that mode it's bright enough to throw a large image.

I am deciding between the HD72 and the HC3000. It seems like the HC3000 gets rainbow complaints for some reason over other comparable projectors. Do you think the extra white segment in the HD72 would help this issue?

EEBuckeye,

You should really go demo a 4X colorwheel DLP before pulling the trigger. There's no way from reading this forum you'll find out whether you're sensitive to rainbows or not.

I've never seen a rainbow with my HD72 in brightmode and probably wouldn't see any on the Mits either, but that doesn't mean you won't...

Mike

Don't get me wrong however - the Mits sounds like a great PJ and is on my very very short list. It really comes down to what the IN76 sells for. If it stays up near the current MAP, I don't know if I can justify getting it rather than the Mits. Sadly, getting the Mits would probably mean giving up my Panamorph - and maybe chopping a few inches off the legs of my sofa! :)

JeffKB,

Did you consider HD72 -- it is getting very good reviews after initial scare with "white crushing" which turned out to be calibration issue. The price can't be beat, 2 digital inputs (big plus), 2 year warranty and you won't have to give up on your Panamorph. :)

My HC3000 is ceiling mounted in my basement, which has a 7 foot 7 inch ceiling. The PJ is absolutely level and I am throwing a 100-inch diagonal picture which starts at 26 inches off the floor. My seated eyelevel is almost exactly 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen. I could have a considerably larger screen by tilting the front of the PJ up and shimming out the top of the screen.

The difficulties of using large offset PJ's with low ceilings are overblown in my humble opinion.

Bigsmith,

Help me understand your mounting numbers.

26" off the floor + 49" high screen (I assume 16:9) = 75"
Your ceiling is 91" - 75" = 16" from top of the screen to the ceiling.

I thought that HC3000 has 32% offset, which means 16" for 49" high screen.
I don't see the numbers coming together (not to criticize, just trying to understand mounting options) since you have to account at least 5-6" for flush mounting. :confused:

Unless you meant center of your lens is 7'7" -- that seems to fit perfectly. Can you chime on this ? :)

Thanks, Davie.

Press Up, down, and enter on the projector body all at the same time to view hours on your lamp.
VB


Excellent , thank you !

------- Jason

If anything, the white segment will make rainbows worse.


Agreed . Brightness has a close relationship with RBE , usually the brighter the DLP Projector is the more likely it is that RBE will be evident (unless of course it is a 3-chip DLP which has no color-wheel) . The white segment on the HD72 will only serve to make a brighter image over-all and is not generally desired for an HT projector .

------ Jason

Bigsmith,

Help me understand your mounting numbers.

26" off the floor + 49" high screen (I assume 16:9) = 75"
Your ceiling is 91" - 75" = 16" from top of the screen to the ceiling.

I thought that HC3000 has 32% offset, which means 16" for 49" high screen.
I don't see the numbers coming together (not to criticize, just trying to understand mounting options) since you have to account at least 5-6" for flush mounting. :confused:

Unless you meant center of your lens is 7'7" -- that seems to fit perfectly. Can you chime on this ? :)

Thanks, Davie.

I'll take some confirming measurements tonite. My ceiling is definitely 7-7 and the center of the PJ lens is around 4-5 inches below the ceiling. I suspect the HC3000's offset may not be as large as the published figures, and may depend on how much zoom you are using. There is also the 48 pixel vertical shift capability which yields a surprising amount of up/down travel at the screen. My picture moves at least 3 inches in each direction from center when I use it. I can't recall where I had this set when I took my measurements.

I'll take some confirming measurements tonite. My ceiling is definitely 7-7 and the center of the PJ lens is around 4-5 inches below the ceiling. I suspect the HC3000's offset may not be as large as the published figures, and may depend on how much zoom you are using. There is also the 48 pixel vertical shift capability which yields a surprising amount of up/down travel at the screen. My picture moves at least 3 inches in each direction from center when I use it. I can't recall where I had this set when I took my measurements.

Thanks, do you know if HC3000 has fixed or variable offset ? Does the top of the image move down when you zoom in ?

Interesting comment on vertical shift, I was under impression that when you use vertical shift, the image is supposed to move 24 pixes (unused top portion of 768 pixels of 720 image). 24 pixels is 3.3% of 720 image, so theoretically it should move only 1.6" (granted current settings is 0). So it seems that vertical shift goes beyond that -- very good news for low ceiling crowd (myself included). :D

Thank you for the responses regarding rainbows. I have a Samsung HLR5067 DLP tv which I believe has a 3X colorwheel (specs say around 10,000 rpm) and I have yet to see a rainbow. I was curious because I had been reading a few reviews that state they have noticed them more on this projector.

I am torn between the HD72 and HC3000. I wish the HC3000 had numerous settings like the HD72 for BC and I have not heard peolpe complaining about HD72 rainbows (still early I know). I would not think I would see rainbows if I can not see them on a 3x rear projection - right?

Also, what types of screws are used to ceiling mount the HC3000? I would come up with my own type of ceiling mount.

Thanks!

The mounting screws for the HC3000u are M4x8mm (3 used) .

--------- Jason

Thank you for the responses regarding rainbows. I have a Samsung HLR5067 DLP tv which I believe has a 3X colorwheel (specs say around 10,000 rpm) and I have yet to see a rainbow. I was curious because I had been reading a few reviews that state they have noticed them more on this projector.

I am torn between the HD72 and HC3000. I wish the HC3000 had numerous settings like the HD72 for BC and I have not heard peolpe complaining about HD72 rainbows (still early I know). I would not think I would see rainbows if I can not see them on a 3x rear projection - right?

Also, what types of screws are used to ceiling mount the HC3000? I would come up with my own type of ceiling mount.

Thanks!

No problem EE. Just because you don't see it on rear projection doesn't guarantee you won't on FP, but you're probably OK. Just make sure you buy from a good dealer that will let you make sure of this and return it if you do.

Saying the white segment causes more rainbows is an unsubstantiated opinion - I think you'll see it or you won't with a 4x color wheel. If you're sensitive you should move to a 5x color wheel projectors at the sacrifice of some color saturation.

I was torn between these two as well. I went with the Optoma for price and it handles all 2.35:1 vertical scaling for use with an anamorphic lens. The variable brilliant color settings are invaluable the more I tweak with my HD72 settings for each source and resolution. The white segment is not an issue IMO, the brightness is a *good* thing.

I think you'll be extremely pleased with any of the Darkchip2 projectors in the end as long as you don't suffer from RBE and eye fatigue from a 4x colorwheel.

Mike

Saying the white segment causes more rainbows is an unsubstantiated opinion -
Mike

Actually the white segment can have a direct effect upon RBE (for those that see it) . Back in the days of the X1 people that 'blacked' or 'silvered' out the white segment actually claimed that it helped to reduce RBE ;) .


---------- Jason

Actually the white segment can have a direct effect upon RBE (for those that see it) . Back in the days of the X1 people that 'blacked' or 'silvered' out the white segment actually claimed that it helped to reduce RBE ;) .


---------- Jason


Did not know that Jason, thanks for the update. I guess I'm just lucky I never see RBE :)

Did not know that Jason, thanks for the update. I guess I'm just lucky I never see RBE :)


Yeah , it really just comes down to that . You either see them or you don't ;) .

Everybody should certainly check out DLP before buying just to be sure RBE is not an issue .

---------- Jason

JeffKB,

Did you consider HD72 -- it is getting very good reviews after initial scare with "white crushing" which turned out to be calibration issue. The price can't be beat, 2 digital inputs (big plus), 2 year warranty and you won't have to give up on your Panamorph. :)
I thought about the HD72, but the fact that it uses a white segment just kills if for me. I really wish Optoma had just made a 720p version of the H31. I'm not sure why they felt the need to goose the brightness with a white segment and potentially compromise image quality. Maybe I'm being old school here, but since I'll be buying the projector sight-unseen, I just feel safer with the tried and tested 6 segment RGBRGB wheel.

I do like the 2.35:1 support on the Optoma however, as you mentioned. :)

Did not know that Jason, thanks for the update. I guess I'm just lucky I never see RBE :)
It was indirectly related. RBEs are more perceptible with greater lumens. When they white segments were darkened, in essence the projectors were producing less light, and thus less RBEs. The same could be achieved by using ND filters, however, another benefit of darkening the white segment appeared to be increased performance from the point of view of CR (on/off), and this cannot be achieved through the use of an ND filter.

Game Pimp, sent you a PM

I thought about the HD72, but the fact that it uses a white segment just kills if for me. I really wish Optoma had just made a 720p version of the H31. I'm not sure why they felt the need to goose the brightness with a white segment and potentially compromise image quality. Maybe I'm being old school here, but since I'll be buying the projector sight-unseen, I just feel safer with the tried and tested 6 segment RGBRGB wheel.

I do like the 2.35:1 support on the Optoma however, as you mentioned. :)

I would still give it a try, you never know -- you might actually like it. Maybe it is better with white segment, who is to judge other than you. :)

It was indirectly related. RBEs are more perceptible with greater lumens. When they white segments were darkened, in essence the projectors were producing less light, and thus less RBEs. The same could be achieved by using ND filters, however, another benefit of darkening the white segment appeared to be increased performance from the point of view of CR (on/off), and this cannot be achieved through the use of an ND filter.

Game Pimp, sent you a PM

Raul ,

-- Better description than what I gave :) .
I did not own an X1 but I do recall reading about the tweaking procedures ;) .

----- Got the PM and responded .
--------- Jason

Jason,

Thanks for the reply..great info.
Curious..is RBE more evident on a bigger or smaller screen? I'm thinking of doing the Stewart Firehawk 92" I know these are a heck of a lot more than some others but if I'm only paying that smaller amount for the above, I can justify it. I think its a good balance... Thanks again and I'm sure we'll pass messages once I get'r hooked up.


Edited... read the forum rules!

Which Carada screen is best for the 3000? I have some ambient light in my HT.

Hey guys,

I need help choosing the 1.0 vs. 1.4 gain Carada screen for this PJ. 110" diag screen, projector can be mounted anywhere from 10 - 16 feet away from screen. I'm torn because half the times I'm reading that DLP projectors are dim (relative to CRT RPTVs anyway) and need high gain screens, the other half of the time I'm reading about how this particular PJ is burning holes in people's retinas! So I just don't know which way to go.

I almost can't imagine that the 1.4 would be "too bright" after the bulb breakin and with the lamp in low mode, iris closed, etc. but I really need some reassurance from those of you that have more than a few hours on your HC3000's!

Thanks,
Jeff

Actually the white segment can have a direct effect upon RBE (for those that see it) . Back in the days of the X1 people that 'blacked' or 'silvered' out the white segment actually claimed that it helped to reduce RBE


Actually, the main reason for RBE is the color update speed, meaning 2x, 4x, 5x, ...etc. Theoratically, RBE goes away if the update speed is infinite x. The Samsung LED RPTV uses three LED clusters and update 48Hz, no color wheel, no RBE. White segment in the 2x data projector color wheel can be used to help minimize the RBE under 2x update speed, make it less noticeable.

Once projector uses 4x or higher update speed, the RBE is greatly reduced. So, a white segment in a data projector 2x color wheel design may be a big factor in RBE, its role in a 4x or above is greatly reduced or a non-issue (depending on how sensitive one is, some still see frequent RBE at 5x!). Yamaha first generation HT projector DPX-1 uses RGB 3 segment, spinning at 2x was criticized for its RBE in Erupoe heavily, though there was no white segment in it.

I thought about the HD72, but the fact that it uses a white segment just kills if for me. I really wish Optoma had just made a 720p version of the H31. I'm not sure why they felt the need to goose the brightness with a white segment and potentially compromise image quality. Maybe I'm being old school here, but since I'll be buying the projector sight-unseen, I just feel safer with the tried and tested 6 segment RGBRGB wheel.

I do like the 2.35:1 support on the Optoma however, as you mentioned. :)

Don't let the white segment kills a product that you havn't seen. HD72 uses RGBwRGB color wheel, 4x update using DDP3020, which has a faster DMD-update speed. One UK colleague of mine who is very sensitive to RBE, says DDP3020 does some magic to reduce the RBE (compareing RGBRGB H56 to RGBwRGB HD72), that he can still see some RBE in H56, but almost none in HD72.

The main reason for RGBwRGB (a small white) is not for brightness, but for Brilliant Color, TI engineers suggests that in order to have more BC effect, we need a small white. If anyone has a chance to compare HC3000 and HD72 on BC effect, then whether TI's recommendation is good or not, will be easy to tell. HD72 has 10-step BC effect, most people are pleased with just 3 or 4, that means only 1/3 of the white segment is used to boost the BC and brightness, which is a good balance. How much will a 1/3 of a small white segment affecting already 4x update speed RBE will be judged by the end users. It was a design decision, Optoma decided to go for TI's recommendation in order to fully explore the potential of BC, while the user can select their own degree of BC enhancement or simply turn off BC (not using white segment at all). The flexivility of leaving more choises for consumer, is a good design consideration.

Will white segment affect image performance? only the existing owners can answer that. I'm sure it will not affect 3-2 pull down or scaling. How about color? Take a look of the H72 sticky link to see the initial reactions. You'll be the judge.

Like I said, don't let white segment stop you. If you can, go take a look of HC3000 and HD72 in person, bring your own DVDs. After all, it's your eyes that are the final judge, seeing is believing. Both are good HT projectors, both have their unique merits (the configurtaions are very similar ).

HC3000 has an adjustable IRIS (right!?), 5x update? BC is On/Off

HD72 has dual digital input, BC is 10-step, 2.35 constant height support, no light-leakage.

Both will be nice, it all comes down to the cost/performance ratio that only the buyer can decide.

Actually, the main reason for RBE is the color update speed, meaning 2x, 4x, 5x, ...etc. Theoratically, RBE goes away if the update speed is infinite x.

The main reason for RGBwRGB (a small white) is not for brightness, but for Brilliant Color, TI engineers suggests that in order to have more BC effect, we need a small white. If anyone has a chance to compare HC3000 and HD72 on BC effect, then whether TI's recommendation is good or not, will be easy to tell. HD72 has 10-step BC effect, most people are pleased with just 3 or 4, that means only 1/3 of the white segment is used to boost the BC and brightness, which is a good balance. How much will a 1/3 of a small white segment affecting already 4x update speed RBE will be judged by the end users. It was a design decision, Optoma decided to go for TI's recommendation in order to fully explore the potential of BC, while the user can select their own degree of BC enhancement or simply turn off BC (not using white segment at all). The flexivility of leaving more choises for consumer, is a good design consideration.



Thanks for clearing this up TzungILin. I always thought RBE was soley dependant on color wheel speed (and user sensitivity). So the white segment can be disabled by simply setting brilliant color to 0 on the HD72? This really puts the white segment doubters to rest. This makes sense, as you could easily turn all the DMD pixels off during the white segment duration in the color wheel. I do notice a drop in brightness when brilliant color is disabled.

I wonder how brilliant color is enabled at all on the Mits HC3000U since it doesn't have a white segment in the color wheel.

I personally like the higher brilliant color settings for applications like HTPC, and very little for film use. It's nice to have the option rather than not at all.

In the end it was still just lumens, price and 2.35 scaling on a 720p DLP machine that blew my old lcd out of the water. Life is good to have so many options...

The White segment cannot simply be disabled by turning off BC , don't be fooled into thinking it can . You cannot magically remove a segment on the wheel with the push of a button , light will shine through it no matter what (which is why X1 users were blocking it out) . Basically if anybody thinks the White segment does not have an impact on black level (even when BC is off) then I dare somebody to compare directly with the black level of an HC3000 (iris open to be fair) . The light from the lamp will leak no matter what you do , other than turning it off . Throw up a 0 IRE full field pattern and look at the screen , it is still lit up . This is just the nature of current Digital projection .

Obviously color-wheel speed is the main factor with RBE but to say that a white segment that makes the light output higher does not have an impact on RBE is simply not true . Brightness can certainly have an impact on how visible the RBE is . Just ask all those people that have reduced RBE issues after adding an ND2 filter .

I am not knocking the HD72 here either as it was a unit that I considered buying but lets not re-word the known technology aspects in order to satisfy one projector (regardless of what projector that may be) . I can understand that the white segment helps the BC come closer to what it is intended for but we all know by now that RGBwRGB is not the proper wheel for it either (which is not to imply that RGBRGB is , it is not) .

Then consider that BC has not even been proven to be accurate for an HT environment and my guess is that it will not be found to allow for accurate calibration at all until we see a proper BC color-wheel design in use (my opinion is based upon what I have seen it do with the Mitsubishi HC3000u which is not accurate) .

While I am certain that the HD72 throws a fantastic image I would not put it in the same category as the HC3000 because it is not truly an HT projector IMO . When I hear of an HD72 being calibrated to D65 and have 12ftL at the screen with BC in use then I might be a little more impressed with the implementation (obviously this would also require the proper HT room and screen) . Now for HD sports and Gaming the HD72 would be a clear champ but I would not expect an accurate Theater image for movie viewing .

--- I need to say here that I am not trying to compare the HD72 with the HC3000 , I am simply discussing the BC aspects of either unit ( there is no grudge match here since they are both excellent PJ's ;) ) .

;) -------- Jason

Dear Jason,

You are right about the white segment and the black level thing, no argue here. What I tried to do is to let people know that update speed is the main cause of RBE. White segment in a 2x CW normally is bigger, and has a bigger role on RBE visibility. But in a 4x and above implementation, RBE is already much less, the impact of white segment is also much less in RBE, since RBE is harder to spot from the start. To people who are sensitive to RBE, 4x or 5x are the same, they still see it and in that case, white segment may contribute to more visibility of RBE. They should consider other technology not using CW.

Simply saying that a projector using a white segment in CW is not a true HT projector, it maybe too generaliized and maybe misleading. If a HT projector using a white segment has a deeper black level than a HT projector with no white segment, then what to define as HT projector then? If HD72 black level is better than LCD projectors, then are the LCD projectors not HT projectors? I just want to offer this for consideration, not debating with you, just from the black level point of view.

There is no "correct" CW or implementation of BC, TI recommends RGBCYM or RGBwRGB, but RGBCYM may need some more time to perfect the sequence control to achieve a level where the color/RBE/brightness have a good balance of performance (to say it politely :p ).

Have you checked out HD72 yet? If not, take a look sometime if you can. :) THen you will have a fair comparison, maybe you can share with us the comparisons between HD72/DDP3020/RGBwRGB against your 4805/DDP1000/RGBRGB, in terms of RBE, black level, color, image performance, brightness, noises, motion contour, etc. Looking forward to it! ;)

Uatatoka,

There are gaps between the RGBRGB segments (6 gaps in total). Gaps are like small clear segment (white segment is clear, too). HC3000 BC is using the gaps collectively to boost the BC function.

There are gaps between the RGBRGB segments (6 gaps in total). Gaps are like small clear segment (white segment is clear, too). HC3000 BC is using the gaps collectively to boost the BC function.

Seeing the color wheel at cine4home's photo doesn't reveal anything I would call "gaps", very thin stripes between the colors at most. However, I think the BC will keep the mirror "on" crossing the color boundaries whenever it can, thus passing more light through for the CMY colors (mixes of the primaries).

Jarno

The concern with the white segment isn't just brightness, but color saturation also. That was the first thing I noticed when switching from an X1 (RGBW) to a 4805 (RGBRGB). Even though the 4805 was brighter than an X1 set to video mode (supposedly white segment deactivated), it also had noticeably better saturation.

Perhaps the HD72 is using such a small white segment that the negative impact is minimized, but I have to believe there's a negative impact to some degree. History says there has to be. Whether we're talking about business projectors with RGBW wheels, or HT projectors such as the BenQ PE5120 or the NEC 410/510 with RGBWY wheels, the knock has always been color saturation and black level. The real test will be if any of the high performance DC3 DLP projectors start using BC with white segments. I bet they don't. ;)

Here's a whitepaper (http://www.dlp.com/dlp_technology/images/dynamic/white_papers/168_BrilliantColor_white_paper.pdf#search='brilliantcolor%20 %20spoke') by TI on BrilliantColor. It talks about implementing BC with a 5 segment RGBC(Cyan)Y(Yellow) wheel, and also explains how BC can be implemented with an RGBRGB wheel. Here's a quote:

"Color processing improvements may also be realized when BrilliantColor™ technology is applied to traditional red, green, blue (RGB) color wheels. All color wheels have a transition region between the different color filters. During the period of time that this region illuminates the DMD, the color processor is uncertain what color of light is actually on the DMD. For example, when the red/green spoke illuminates the DMD, the DMD sees a combination of red and green light. Color processing can take advantage of this situation. Combining red with green yields yellow light. Similarly, combining red with blue yields magenta while combining blue with green yields cyan".
Based on that, it sure sounds to me like the HC3000 and HD72 are implementing BC the same exact way - using "spoke time" on an RGBRGB wheel to boost the secondaries. That does not rely on there being clear space between the spokes however, and the Mits colorwheel at cine4home (as mentioned by Jarno) looks identical to the colorwheel on the 4805. The white segment on the HD72 only serves the role of allowing more lumens through.

There has been a head to head comparison between the HD72 and HC3000, and the results do nothing to alleviate my fears on saturation:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7112914&&#post7112914

Having said all that, I do agree that it's best to see the projectors in person and judge for yourself. Most people seem very happy with the HD72 and I'm sure I would also be impressed with it. I just think it's more likely that the IN76 or HC3000 are for me.

Here's a thorough review of the HD72:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD72/index.asp

Definitely a home theater projector capable of D65K calibration with the lumen mark very dependent on screen size. Your assesment otherwise is a bit unfair IMO. That is your opinion which you are entitled to of course. If you were to say a Darkchip3 projecotor with 8 segment color wheel was more of a "home theater" projector I'd say you may have a valid argument.

The HC3000U, HD72, and IN76 are all too close in implementation to clearly say one is superior to the other. I'd like to see some thorough comparisons like Art's to really get a (more) unbiased opinion. He should have one up soon which I am looking forward to. I personally think it's going to come down to more feature set, offset, scaling options, and price that work better for each user. If the white segment implementation scares you enough from past experiences, then the HD72 is not for you. Just keep in mind most of the glowing remarks on this projector involve it's rich and vibrant color saturation.

I'll get out of the HC3000u thread now before I get stoned to death :)

Mike

Dear Jason,

Simply saying that a projector using a white segment in CW is not a true HT projector, it maybe too generaliized and maybe misleading. If a HT projector using a white segment has a deeper black level than a HT projector with no white segment, then what to define as HT projector then? If HD72 black level is better than LCD projectors, then are the LCD projectors not HT projectors? I just want to offer this for consideration, not debating with you, just from the black level point of view.


Have you checked out HD72 yet? If not, take a look sometime if you can. :) THen you will have a fair comparison, maybe you can share with us the comparisons between HD72/DDP3020/RGBwRGB against your 4805/DDP1000/RGBRGB, in terms of RBE, black level, color, image performance, brightness, noises, motion contour, etc. Looking forward to it! ;)

My comment about it not being a true HT projector has nothing to do with comparing one technology to the other . It has to do with not being an optimized and designed for HT projector (which the HC3000 and 4805 are , as well as many others like the H78DC3) . The HD72 is more of a general purpose HD pj for those with non light controlled rooms IMO . Name another HT designed PJ that has a white segment ? There are none that I am aware of .

-- I have not checked out an HD72 yet , they are near impossible to even purchase at this point let alone see one on display .

--- I no longer own an IF4805 , I now own the Mitsu HC3000u and I would be happy to compare it to the HD72 if somebody wanted to bring one over or send me one . I am pretty confident that krasmuzik would like to get a hold of one for a real world spec inspection and while he might be biased towards selling InFocus he is also very honest and tells it like it is when he does calibrations/reviews . He stated the H30 was superior to the SP4800 and he also said the H31 was a nice unit that closely compares with the 4805 .

--- Anyway I am done with this debate since it seems like nothing more than owner justification and marketing at this point , plus I have no desire to throw stones :) .

;) ----------- Jason

Mike,

I agree they are comparable but I don't think that Art's affiliated company sells the Mits HC3k or the IF 76.

So take his reviews with a little skeptisim. I like his reviews they have useful info just my .002.

Jason,

I just purchased the HC3000 today so I'll be ordering a screen here within the next several days. What kind of mount goes best with this PJ to give some flexibility?

I thinking of either a 92" or 100" recessed Stewart screen. However, my the joyces in the house go opposite of where the screen goes so I will need to build a house that will put the screen down 7inches or so. In addition to that, there will be the 12" mask on the screen.

Any recommendations on mounts? Thanks again!

Justin

Justin ,

--- I bought the Sanus Universal mount and it works well but is a bear to install and align so maybe try the Gyrolock Universal or the Peerless ;) .

---------- Jason

Mike,

I don't think that Art's affiliated company sells the Mits HC3k or the IF 76.

So take his reviews with a little skeptisim.

Some folks are unaware of this little known fact and it's something that should definitely be taken into consideration before making decisions based on what is read on his site.

Hey Jason, how goes it? I know kras hasn't calibrated it yet but was curious to know what you think of the Mitsu now that you've had a little more time with it. How much of a step up from the 4805's performance do you feel it is and how much better does the 360 look on it?

Should be a pretty interesting to hear how the IN76 and the 3000 compare and look forward to what you guys have to say.

Plan on any screen shot's yet or will that be post calibration?

Enjoy your new toy! :)

Mike,

I agree they are comparable but I don't think that Art's affiliated company sells the Mits HC3k or the IF 76.

So take his reviews with a little skeptisim. I like his reviews they have useful info just my .002.

Hi Mooney,

I'm aware of this. Art is at least upfront about this and tries to be objective as possible:

"Our partner program, provides us better access to product, but it does not effect the net conclusions of the projector review. Some Partner's projectors receive Hot Product Awards, others don't. The same is true for the projector reviews of non-partner's products. It's important for readers to understand, the success of our site is dependent on the credibility of our reviews."

I'm looking forward to any other reviews as well. I'm surprised the HD72 is so hard to get. Jeff pointed out a review with H78 over the HC3000 over the HD72. This certainly falls in line with the price deltas. These simple user reviews always leave me wanting more though....

Even though a white segment may not be ideal for the video perfectionist as it affects ansi on/off contrast, I question how much worse video wise it is when TI's Brilliant Color is disabled as it is a small white segment and given so many other similarities between these 3 projectors (TI's DDP3020 chip and TI's 768p business/theater DMD design). Didn't the Mits HC900 have a white segment too?

I do like adjustable Iris on the HC3000u, as my HD72 is *bright* :) A ND filter may be in order until I get a couple hundred hours on the bulb. I'll wait until I get my 120" 2.35 CH theater with anamorphic lens as this is much more surface are to cover. I think the IN76 will take top honors in the end with 2.35 constant height scaling, out of box D65 cal, 16% offset, and 1080i weave deinterlacing, and no white segment. It is probably priced accordingly as such. ;)

Mike

Hey Jason, how goes it? I know kras hasn't calibrated it yet but was curious to know what you think of the Mitsu now that you've had a little more time with it. How much of a step up from the 4805's performance do you feel it is and how much better does the 360 look on it?

Should be a pretty interesting to hear how the IN76 and the 3000 compare and look forward to what you guys have to say.

Plan on any screen shot's yet or will that be post calibration?

Enjoy your new toy! :)


Hey ,

--- The HC3000 is a nice PJ , pretty much bests the 4805 on all counts which is to be expected (the 4805 throws one heck of an image though) .
--- There is no comparison with the Xbox 360 , the Mitsu kills the 4805 here (I am sorry to say) .

--- Yeah , I am looking forward to seeing the IN76 in direct comparison to the HC3000 (well maybe not because if it is better then I will be selling the new HC3000 to buy the IN76 ... LOL) .

--- I tried a few screen-shots already but the thing is still so bright that they do not come out , well that and I broke my tri-pod a couple weeks back ;) .

--- I hope to enjoy it for a while , thanks :) .

----- Jason

[QUOTE=DaGamePimp]
--- There is no comparison with the Xbox 360 , the Mitsu kills the 4805 here (I am sorry to say) .That should be expected as well. Why are you sorry? You should be extremely happy about that. :p ;) :D


--- I tried a few screen-shots already but the thing is still so bright that they do not come out , well that and I broke my tri-pod a couple weeks back ;) .One chair + one empty Mitsu HC3000 pj box stood on end = camera tripod + ND2 filter = many nice screenshots. :)

just thought I would give some quick thoughts on the HC3000U vs the Sharp DT-400 ( xv-z2000)
since I am fairly new here

my background
I am a photographer for a living mostly do a lot of interior architecture and some weddings
but in arch shooting color is critical and weddings skin tone to me is critical so I think I have a good eye :) and I work on a profiled system etc.... thought a touch of background might help so some know where I am coming from
and my grammar sucks so sorry about that in advance ;)

new to projectors my last TV was a 7th gen panny 42 plasma
had to move to the mainland (moved from Maui and am so homesick) so now I have more room to have a large screen ;) thats the only upside that and there are actually stores where I can see projectors and not have to pay $$$$ to ship toys to me

Screens
I am still researching screens but to hold me over I got the graywolf from optoma which I hate the grainy shimmery look on the light scenes I do like how it holds up on the darks though the other down side is skin tones dont look as good on this as the white screens which I figured would happen
also a white optoma which I like for the skin tone colors and clean look it gives
so the final screen I am now thinking is going to have to be a white screen after viewing samples etc...
I might try a HCMW ? want to get a Firehawk but before I spend that money on a screen I want to have a dedicated theater room but thinking I will get the matte white screen ? any thoughts on this from people will be great

The Room
which brings me to the room I am viewing this in
a white room with light carpet am viewing at night so the house gets very dark no prob there only reflection probs the room is 18x14 projector will sit back about 14-16 feet and I am sitting at 12-14 feet from screen
the right side of the room is open to the kitchen so a touch less reflection from that side

Gear Used
component going through a NAD T773 and using a Denon 2900 DVD player
speakers are PSB if anyone is curious ;) great sound combo



onto the projectors


Overall ramblings
so far very impressed with the mits after a couple hours of tweaking it compared to the sharp the Mits is much nicer color all around and better shadow detail by a amount you can tell
my thinking on this is if you walked into a room with the Sharp you would think wow great picture and then walk into another room with the mits you would also say wow great picture
now if you watched one scene such as in Master and Commander near the beginning when the guy is getting the eggs out of the chicken coupe you would then notice much more detail and color in the mits
if you watched the scene from one room to another you would notice a dif or at least %80 of most viewers might notice
a general brighter clean scene one might be hard pressed to tell the dif between the two
side by side you could pick out details but walking from one room to the other it would take a few trips to figure out the mits was nicer color

now one down side of the hc3000 a few scenes of things moving such as in Star Wars a few chapters in when the large droid carriers are coming down on that green field there are some strange diagonal banding type marks that come in quickly ??
they are very quick my best analogy is how older tv reception had scan lines
my DVD player is a Denon 2900 so dont think its the player since never had it any other time
not sure if this is the rainbow look ??? or something else it does not happen on the Sharp at all
(could this be a 4x vs 5x color wheel thing ??) again new to projectors so sure I will figure it out soon
if I open the iris up it shows a bit more but tweaking a few things its almost not noticed at all
now my wife really sees it more than I do but she can see the flickering of fluorescent lights so might just be her super eyes compared with my old tired ones heheheheh
Advantage: MITS


thoughts on the IRIS
that brings me to the iris on the hc3000 that bugger is noisy our little girl (21 months) looks with this funny look at it when changing ;) heheheheh
but it does what it should just bring down the levels a touch without effecting color balance

now I am testing still but my settings are iris closed but I can view some movies with it open and it looks good and tends not to change the darks as much as the sharp did
so movies such as Star Wars the star fields and scenes such as in III stay clean with iris open (looks better closed of course) but with the Sharp z2000 if you open the iris it tends to be to bright overall blowing out the dark look and you then notice I am viewing a screen !
so to me the iris on the sharp is not that great and useful like the mits
one thing on the sharp if you close the iris down the skin tones tend to change a touch ?
they get more grey muddy by a small amount but enough to annoy me
Advantage: MITS


Black Levels
that brings me to black levels both are very close but again the lead goes to the mits by a small amount with both of the pj having the iris closed but the mits tends to do it with a touch less noise
Advantage: MITS


Shadow Detail
shadow detail this is where the mits pulls ahead
getting into the service menus on the sharp helped it out a lot from out of the box
when I first lit up the mits it was about like the sharp tweaked by me so I had to smile thinking things are only going to get better
Advantage: MITS


Controls
this brings me to controls
having easy access to many of the controls such as the gamma curve and a few personal WB settings etc... makes it a bit easier and tougher to tweak since there are so many variables on the hc3000 over the sharp but I have to give the edge to the sharp on the menu interface yeah big deal ;) hehehehehe
Advantage: MITS


Shadow Details
back to the shadow details ? what is better about them well less noise for sure movies such as Gladiator in its dark parts or Master and Commander or Pirates of the Caribbean the less noise is nice and getting richer color out of those shadows is nice so better color less noise = more detail and the ahhhhh factor
Advantage: MITS


highlight detail both are fine but the mits has nicer color and the ability to tweak more using the gamma curve so again the lead to the Mits
Advantage: MITS


brilliant color
the brilliant color thingy is OK it kinda works in some scenes and in others it is to contrasty but tweaking the gamma curve helped bring it down a touch and with the iris in closed its not a bad combination I think for dark movies I will have it off but for bright fun I will use it ???
I so so so so wish they had a 1-10 setting like the HD72 has so I could dial it down some but I guess from reading that is what the white part of the wheel is for and if that compromises color then I would not want it ?? so its just the way it is ;)
Advantage: MITS but the sharp does not have this ???


Contrast
well the overall contrast is nicer on the Mits for sure
and the Brilliant color tends to act like a mid tone contrast boost which can work for some movies
I did not measure this I just used my eyes to me specs are great but my eyes are what counts
Advantage: MITS


Brightness
Both are bright but once again a small lead with the Mits but the Contrast and the overall better color less noise etc.. all make a nicer bright pic to view
I have only a Infocus LCD forgot the model and a Sony hs51 to compare these to in my place so take this bright level as I have to compare a few more to really know but the Sony was so dull it felt dull and the sharp in low iris I tend to want more punch but the Mits is plenty bright and when the iris is open I like the punch a bit more but in some bright scenes its to much ;) so I think the threshold is very close to being reached in bright level for me and the next step is to find a proj with even better contrast to help bring things out without getting more brightness
advantage: MITS


Fan Noise
well both seem fairly quiet cant give much more on this as I have not tried to check these out and see what I think ?? to me its more about the picture and chances are the pj will be over 4 feet from my head at the closes but more chance it will be 6 or so feet away so both are quiet enough
Advantage: Neither both equal so far


Mounting
I have 9 foot ceilings so the mits should not be a prob but I really dont want to ceiling mount it ?? so I wish I could put it behind me on a shelf system I have for ease of use but OH well its a draw here both suck as no lens shift
Advantage: Neither both have there pros cons

I am sure I WILL change my thoughts some the more time I spend with the Mits

now the prob is I want to go check out a DC3 chip Projector to see how things are better ??
I want to get the h78 but am paranoid about the bulb thing going on burning out so quick
also not sure it would be bright enough for me ?? but would the better pic and contrast help it out ??



hope this rambling thoughts helps someone ;) and again sorry for my bad grammar ;)

Honu,
Very good summary and I agree wth you. I looked at the H78 as well, and frankly, I couldn't justify the $1300 price difference between the H78 and the Mits. The H78 was "slightly" better, but not worth the extra money IMO. I look at the Mits as a 24-36 month projector, and then moving on to a 1080P product in the same price range down the line. Just my $.02.

Dave

thanks ;)

Dave that is kinda my thinking a 24-36 month use ??
without viewing the H78 and without seeing for my eyes only what others have said about it
now that I have viewed a few projectors I think I can relate more to what others see

my only thought on the H78 is with the bulb costs and a mount (which I would not use since I could shelf mount the H78 the overall price dif would be about $600 or $700 :) hehehehe
can ya tell I am trying to justify it
maybe buy a manual screen instead of a electric ;) and put the money in the projector instead ????


but the one thing that nobody seems to have a answer on is if there is a bulb prob and if its fixed or not ??

since my room is not true HT dark walls etc... I want to get every bit of quality I can
then some say well without that room you hit a theoretical limit and the H78 and that would be to much PJ for a non HT dark wall theater ????

trying to figure this all out is kinda fun though ;)

Personally, I would spend more on a screen since you will probably keep that for multiple projectors.

just thought I would give some quick thoughts on the HC3000U vs the Sharp DT-400 ( xv-z2000)
since I am fairly new here

my background
I am a photographer for a living mostly do a lot of interior architecture and some weddings
but in arch shooting color is critical and weddings skin tone to me is critical so I think I have a good eye :) and I work on a profiled system etc.... thought a touch of background might help so some know where I am coming from
and my grammar sucks so sorry about that in advance ;)

new to projectors my last TV was a 7th gen panny 42 plasma
had to move to the mainland (moved from Maui and am so homesick) so now I have more room to have a large screen ;) thats the only upside that and there are actually stores where I can see projectors and not have to pay $$$$ to ship toys to me

Screens
I am still researching screens but to hold me over I got the graywolf from optoma which I hate the grainy shimmery look on the light scenes I do like how it holds up on the darks though the other down side is skin tones dont look as good on this as the white screens which I figured would happen
also a white optoma which I like for the skin tone colors and clean look it gives
so the final screen I am now thinking is going to have to be a white screen after viewing samples etc...
I might try a HCMW ? want to get a Firehawk but before I spend that money on a screen I want to have a dedicated theater room but thinking I will get the matte white screen ? any thoughts on this from people will be great

The Room
which brings me to the room I am viewing this in
a white room with light carpet am viewing at night so the house gets very dark no prob there only reflection probs the room is 18x14 projector will sit back about 14-16 feet and I am sitting at 12-14 feet from screen
the right side of the room is open to the kitchen so a touch less reflection from that side

Gear Used
component going through a NAD T773 and using a Denon 2900 DVD player
speakers are PSB if anyone is curious ;) great sound combo



onto the projectors


Overall ramblings
so far very impressed with the mits after a couple hours of tweaking it compared to the sharp the Mits is much nicer color all around and better shadow detail by a amount you can tell
my thinking on this is if you walked into a room with the Sharp you would think wow great picture and then walk into another room with the mits you would also say wow great picture
now if you watched one scene such as in Master and Commander near the beginning when the guy is getting the eggs out of the chicken coupe you would then notice much more detail and color in the mits
if you watched the scene from one room to another you would notice a dif or at least %80 of most viewers might notice
a general brighter clean scene one might be hard pressed to tell the dif between the two
side by side you could pick out details but walking from one room to the other it would take a few trips to figure out the mits was nicer color

now one down side of the hc3000 a few scenes of things moving such as in Star Wars a few chapters in when the large droid carriers are coming down on that green field there are some strange diagonal banding type marks that come in quickly ??
they are very quick my best analogy is how older tv reception had scan lines
my DVD player is a Denon 2900 so dont think its the player since never had it any other time
not sure if this is the rainbow look ??? or something else it does not happen on the Sharp at all
(could this be a 4x vs 5x color wheel thing ??) again new to projectors so sure I will figure it out soon
if I open the iris up it shows a bit more but tweaking a few things its almost not noticed at all
now my wife really sees it more than I do but she can see the flickering of fluorescent lights so might just be her super eyes compared with my old tired ones heheheheh
Advantage: MITS


thoughts on the IRIS
that brings me to the iris on the hc3000 that bugger is noisy our little girl (21 months) looks with this funny look at it when changing ;) heheheheh
but it does what it should just bring down the levels a touch without effecting color balance

now I am testing still but my settings are iris closed but I can view some movies with it open and it looks good and tends not to change the darks as much as the sharp did
so movies such as Star Wars the star fields and scenes such as in III stay clean with iris open (looks better closed of course) but with the Sharp z2000 if you open the iris it tends to be to bright overall blowing out the dark look and you then notice I am viewing a screen !
so to me the iris on the sharp is not that great and useful like the mits
one thing on the sharp if you close the iris down the skin tones tend to change a touch ?
they get more grey muddy by a small amount but enough to annoy me
Advantage: MITS


Black Levels
that brings me to black levels both are very close but again the lead goes to the mits by a small amount with both of the pj having the iris closed but the mits tends to do it with a touch less noise
Advantage: MITS


Shadow Detail
shadow detail this is where the mits pulls ahead
getting into the service menus on the sharp helped it out a lot from out of the box
when I first lit up the mits it was about like the sharp tweaked by me so I had to smile thinking things are only going to get better
Advantage: MITS


Controls
this brings me to controls
having easy access to many of the controls such as the gamma curve and a few personal WB settings etc... makes it a bit easier and tougher to tweak since there are so many variables on the hc3000 over the sharp but I have to give the edge to the sharp on the menu interface yeah big deal ;) hehehehehe
Advantage: MITS


Shadow Details
back to the shadow details ? what is better about them well less noise for sure movies such as Gladiator in its dark parts or Master and Commander or Pirates of the Caribbean the less noise is nice and getting richer color out of those shadows is nice so better color less noise = more detail and the ahhhhh factor
Advantage: MITS


highlight detail both are fine but the mits has nicer color and the ability to tweak more using the gamma curve so again the lead to the Mits
Advantage: MITS


brilliant color
the brilliant color thingy is OK it kinda works in some scenes and in others it is to contrasty but tweaking the gamma curve helped bring it down a touch and with the iris in closed its not a bad combination I think for dark movies I will have it off but for bright fun I will use it ???
I so so so so wish they had a 1-10 setting like the HD72 has so I could dial it down some but I guess from reading that is what the white part of the wheel is for and if that compromises color then I would not want it ?? so its just the way it is ;)
Advantage: MITS but the sharp does not have this ???


Contrast
well the overall contrast is nicer on the Mits for sure
and the Brilliant color tends to act like a mid tone contrast boost which can work for some movies
I did not measure this I just used my eyes to me specs are great but my eyes are what counts
Advantage: MITS


Brightness
Both are bright but once again a small lead with the Mits but the Contrast and the overall better color less noise etc.. all make a nicer bright pic to view
I have only a Infocus LCD forgot the model and a Sony hs51 to compare these to in my place so take this bright level as I have to compare a few more to really know but the Sony was so dull it felt dull and the sharp in low iris I tend to want more punch but the Mits is plenty bright and when the iris is open I like the punch a bit more but in some bright scenes its to much ;) so I think the threshold is very close to being reached in bright level for me and the next step is to find a proj with even better contrast to help bring things out without getting more brightness
advantage: MITS


Fan Noise
well both seem fairly quiet cant give much more on this as I have not tried to check these out and see what I think ?? to me its more about the picture and chances are the pj will be over 4 feet from my head at the closes but more chance it will be 6 or so feet away so both are quiet enough
Advantage: Neither both equal so far


Mounting
I have 9 foot ceilings so the mits should not be a prob but I really dont want to ceiling mount it ?? so I wish I could put it behind me on a shelf system I have for ease of use but OH well its a draw here both suck as no lens shift
Advantage: Neither both have there pros cons

I am sure I WILL change my thoughts some the more time I spend with the Mits

now the prob is I want to go check out a DC3 chip Projector to see how things are better ??
I want to get the h78 but am paranoid about the bulb thing going on burning out so quick
also not sure it would be bright enough for me ?? but would the better pic and contrast help it out ??



hope this rambling thoughts helps someone ;) and again sorry for my bad grammar ;)

Being a photographer, I though you would have commented on the optics and sharpness of the image. Maybe you did and I missed it.

Honu

I have a 12x20 room with 9' ceiling mounted HC3000. I am 100% pleased with the performance.
First row seating at 12' and 2nd row at about 17-18'. This is my second projector and I have considered (and seen demoed)many screens and finally bought a 106" diag Stewart Firehawk. The firehawk is good with some ambient light and also better than others when you have a light colored room.

I agree with Dave Vaughn in that you should buy a good screen because it will outlast several PJ. Screen technology is much more mature than projectors so in my opinion the worst thing to do is to buy the hot projector of the month and a cheap screen.

Hmcewin :) heheheh yeah forgot that I was sitting thinking what else can I say ;)
thanks for reminding me of that

optic wise I think both are pretty good but have been happy with the pic so far
I guess my analogy is my fav canon lens is the 70-200 IS has a great look yet the cheaper 50 1.4 is a killer lens also ;)
optic wise I have not done to much testing but will most likely put up some tests to check things out and look for edge to edge sharpness and light fall off etc..

in quick testing with movies I know well so far both are passing ;) so thats cool with me

both seem to be nice and sharp I think since the image is nicer with the Mits its going to look better and cleaner sharper

going back to my having one setup in one room and going from room to room not sure if anyone can tell which is sharper

image shape ? even dead on center and proper height etc... the sharp has a bow at the bottom ??? not sure why ;)

also I dont have to much to compare these with have to get a nice top line one in to compare ??


also since I cant change the lens ;) not much I can do about it so like buying a point and shoot camera I want the best pic and the most amount of tweaking and hope that to get a good pic the lens is as good as it is as a complete package

if it was a lens I could change I would be more into that ;) hehehehe

so viewing say a close up of a face and trying to make out the best detail in the face I will have to take a second looksy and see what I find
but again since I cant change it I want the best overall pic and at least I am the kind that might take a touch of lens probs for a nicer picture
my best thought is the 24 1.4 canon is not as nice as the 35 1.4 but I prefer the 24 for the look it gives ;)


that all said the sharpening on the Sharp can go overboard really quick and look like a unsharp mask gone bad ;)
where the Mits has more a smooth sharpening look that tends not to get that harsh edge look ;)

Mooney and Dave thanks for the thoughts and input on the screen I have been thinking about that
since I have to do a pull down for a while I keep thinking if I can get a pull down of the same material vs a electric of the same
the pic will be the same ;) so more money to the projector or better yet put the money away for the day I build a new home and build in a theater which I think I will then want a dif screen altogether ?? that is why my thoughts are this way
then the other side of me says get the best now and enjoy it ;)
the room layout makes me use the wall that goes out to the backyard also our little girl shares this room as her playroom and a perm screen might not last ;) heheheheheh

but I have thought get a nice electric tensioned firehawk and have it for a long time for a nice mixed lighting screen to hang down in front of a perm system someday ;)

just found out severtson screens are about 30 minutes from where I live so going to go check out there stuff tomorrow

and from my samples I am also liking the HCMW screen ?? a bit of dark with good skin tones still and the white dont look so silvery

I can show these threads to the wife "See even others say get the Firehawk ;)" hehehehe

I have had the 3000 for only a few days and found it very unforgiving to source material which is a good thing. Poor HD sources do not look that great but excellent HD sources really show what this projector can do. Wow on the black levels BTW.

Also, the Mits website calculator was dead on.

IMO, anyone with D* should not own this projector. It is very revealing.

well spending some more time tonight with the projector
started to properly set it up and really started to notice the lines ?
I have to think they are rainbows but like I can see lots of lines going across the screen
on a 106 size screen they are about a inch or so wide and spaced the same and going quite quickly ?
on bright scenes its so noticeable even with low iris setting and low bulb of course its sadly going in the box and back to the store tomorrow
trying to watch a movie like Island with a lot of white in it just aint going to happen for me :(
oh well
spent more time tweaking my current sharp tonight and got a bit more out of it playing with the service menus so will be back to researching ;) or just stick with it longer

sad though as the Mits pic is so nice but cant live with the rainbows which I assume they are

Lines across the screen sound like a bad connector on a cable to me. It could be a bad connection on the projector though too. Have you tried wiggiling the cables to see if it makes a difference?

IMO, anyone with D* should not own this projector. It is very revealing.

IMO, anyone with D* should not try to watch D* on a screen larger than 30", no matter the brand or model.

Let's not blame the projector for faults with the source.

Can someone tell me how the video upscaling works in Mitsu 3000U. I have a normal 480i DVD player connected via Component. I am not sure if the signal gets up converted to 720P or 1080i by default. Where can I control the upconversion? Is it possible to disable it? I searched in the menu and the manual but could not find any information on this. THanks a lot for pointers.

well spending some more time tonight with the projector
started to properly set it up and really started to notice the lines ?
I have to think they are rainbows but like I can see lots of lines going across the screen
on a 106 size screen they are about a inch or so wide and spaced the same and going quite quickly ?
on bright scenes its so noticeable even with low iris setting and low bulb of course its sadly going in the box and back to the store tomorrow
trying to watch a movie like Island with a lot of white in it just aint going to happen for me :(
oh well
spent more time tweaking my current sharp tonight and got a bit more out of it playing with the service menus so will be back to researching ;) or just stick with it longer

sad though as the Mits pic is so nice but cant live with the rainbows which I assume they are

Does not sound like RBE to me , sounds more like noise from a source due to bad connection or even a grounding issue . RBE would be multi-colored which is why it is called Rainbow effect and does not result in lines with 1 inch gaps moving across the screen .

--- Best Wishes ,
------- Jason

Can someone tell me how the video upscaling works in Mitsu 3000U. I have a normal 480i DVD player connected via Component. I am not sure if the signal gets up converted to 720P or 1080i by default. Where can I control the upconversion? Is it possible to disable it? I searched in the menu and the manual but could not find any information on this. THanks a lot for pointers.

Sources will be scaled to 720p by default if you have the Mitsu set to 16:9 (or 768p if set to wxga) . Digital displays do not scale to 1080i as they are progressive , usually only CRT HDtv's will scale to 1080i .


-------- Jason

IMO, anyone with D* should not try to watch D* on a screen larger than 30", no matter the brand or model.

Let's not blame the projector for faults with the source.

You completely have mistaken what I said. I meant that the projector displays such a quality image, it will reveal the defects in source material if they are there such as the D* over compression and reduced resolution. Excellent source material will look supurb. ;) ;) ;)

thanks all for the feedback so I tried a few things ;)

I thought the rainbows would look like colored clouds flickering etc... or something if I saw them I wish I could see them sometime just so I know ;) hehehehehe

also the lines are very subtle
reminds me totally of a strobing issue
such as on a Technics 1200 turntable and adjusting the speed and you can see your platter strobe marks as they slowly speed up
trying to change settings doesnt change them etc.. if I get it dark enough it goes away I am wondering if its possible to be a color wheel issue ?? and seeing the spoke part of the wheel or something

it is using the exact cords my Sharp was using just swapped them
so I tried a dif cord and a dif cicrcuit and still the lines ????
maybe a bad connector on the machine itself then ?
and again my sharp doesnt show it ??

my gear is running on its own circuit then to a panamax line conditioner
so I doubt its the power line ?
also it shows it on all sources

now for the funny part ;) in the bottom of the box was a screw ??? looked like a case screw ? now the box was sealed was a new unit and not sure how it would have got inside unless it somehow came off the line and another machine is missing a screw or a extra one fell in or a guy on the line thought it would be funny :)



Kipp I can relate to that for sure since better source did look better ;) I really only watch DVDs and HD channels though


well at least I am glad it wasnt RBE issues ;) store does not have another one in stock only the one ? the other was the floor model ? no thanks ;) so will return and maybe try another one or maybe get a HD72 and see how that is

again thanks all for the feedback got to say having a PJ is so much nicer than my old plasma ;)

Honu ;
Try eliminating the screen as the problem. The Greywolf had some issues with bands of plastic being visible near the top. Shooting on a wall ,with the same video material should do it. There also was a bunch of guys reporting vertical banding with their projectors,(forgot which) and come to find out it was their screen ,as the culprit the whole time.

cubsfan ;)
yeah I also used a 92 matte white screen since I have both up and was going back and forth testing out the graywolf since it got so much praise and same prob
putting up the sample of firehawk I could see it on that also
but the machine did go back today

the graywolf actually went back today also before my 30 days were up
just way to grainy looking and many times in the bright scenes the sparklies were horrid and I could see I was using a screen kinda look also the skin tones were off enough since I like the pure color of white but my room is to bright with the white walls might have to paint our family room dark ;) also thinking of somekind of pull out velvet curtains to go around the screen area maybe to help ???


thanks again though good to have feedback ;)

also a thought on the graywolf while its not that bad ? for the money my wife did not mind the sparkly look at all for the money ;) drove me mental !!!

I too hated the GrayWolf , worse sparklies (sheen) than the HCCV , HCDM & Draper HiDef Gray .

-------- Jason

I am totally new to projectors. I have done a little research and have settled on the HC3000, but before I buy I would like some opinions on ceiling mounting the unit.

My ceiling is 7 feet 4 inches, and I will be mounting this projector 12 feet from the screen. Is my ceiling too low for the projector to be ceiling mounted? What kind of screen size will I be looking at? Also my seating will be directly underneat the projector, will this be an issue?

Any help would be awesome, thanks.

Ranger,
My ceiling is 7'6" and I still had 24" below the bottom of my screen at 138" back. You should be just fine but to double check, look here:

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/prjcalc_win_2002_12_10.zip

I am totally new to projectors. I have done a little research and have settled on the HC3000, but before I buy I would like some opinions on ceiling mounting the unit.

My ceiling is 7 feet 4 inches, and I will be mounting this projector 12 feet from the screen. Is my ceiling too low for the projector to be ceiling mounted? What kind of screen size will I be looking at? Also my seating will be directly underneat the projector, will this be an issue?

Any help would be awesome, thanks.

You should be OK for a screen up to 96" diagonal (16 x 9) if you mount the PJ as close to the ceiling as possible. This will put the bottom of the image 20-24 inches off the floor which is just about right for single-row seating. (Eye level at about one third up from the bottom of the screen) A larger screen is doable but the bottom will be lower.

Seating directly underneath the PJ is fine, it's very quiet in low lamp mode.

Well I am about to do something a little crazy , going to put up a 120" diagonal 16:9 screen with the HC3000 and see how it goes . The gain should be about 1.5 to 1.7 with the ceiling mounted Mitsu . I am assuming that I will not be needing the iris at this size but if the gain is too much , since the HC3000 is plently bright , then it will be nice to know that I can tone it down closer to the 12ftL spec with the iris . With 8' ceilings the bottom of this HUGE screen will only be 1' off the floor but the experience should still be awesome :D .

;) ---------- Jason

not takin cost into comparison, how in your guys opinion does the H78 compare the the HC3000, and also, whats with this new mitsu HD4000 I see, I have been out of the loop for a bit now that I have my theater done, im researchin for a freind and im thinkin the H78 is a better PJ for him.....totally light controlled dedicated HT, hes gonna be using about a 130" screen or possibly bigger

H78DC3 is the better PJ , but it is not as bright as the HC3000 . So that large of a screen might really be pushing it in order to get at least 12ftL at the screen (even in a dedicated , light controlled room) .

--- I think the HD4000 is a business/general use PJ and not primarily designed for HT .

----------- Jason

i think the H78 will probably do good then, Im runnin a BenQ PE7800 at 121" and at 700 hours I still think it looks great

Well I am about to do something a little crazy , going to put up a 120" diagonal 16:9 screen with the HC3000 and see how it goes . The gain should be about 1.5 to 1.7 with the ceiling mounted Mitsu . I am assuming that I will not be needing the iris at this size but if the gain is too much , since the HC3000 is plently bright , then it will be nice to know that I can tone it down closer to the 12ftL spec with the iris . With 8' ceilings the bottom of this HUGE screen will only be 1' off the floor but the experience should still be awesome :D .

;) ---------- Jason
Once you have it setup you're gonna love it. I know you don't really care for PGR3 but you should really try out the in car view on that screen. Talk about immersive. :D

Congratulations and welcome to Club 120. ;)

Hi,
Got my HC3000 yesterday.
Got 2 issues with it.
First, the picture is not brightness uniform. Lots more brighter at the right edge of the screen.
Secondly, got some heavy chromatic abberation towards the low left corner.
Anyonelse have these problems?


Regards, Anders

Does anyone notice alot of noise? I am thinking its with the source, but I watched saw 2 the other day, and noise was really bad.

Was it the disc? I also notice as someone said its very unforgiving for bad hd sources, here in canada on bell, if you get a good hd signal like discovery HD, or CBC, it looks great, but then HD PPV also looks full of noise.

not takin cost into comparison, how in your guys opinion does the H78 compare the the HC3000, and also, whats with this new mitsu HD4000 I see, I have been out of the loop for a bit now that I have my theater done, im researchin for a freind and im thinkin the H78 is a better PJ for him.....totally light controlled dedicated HT, hes gonna be using about a 130" screen or possibly bigger



We just released a short review of the HD4000 (in german).

www.cine4home.de


Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

Does anyone notice alot of noise? I am thinking its with the source, but I watched saw 2 the other day, and noise was really bad.

Was it the disc? I also notice as someone said its very unforgiving for bad hd sources, here in canada on bell, if you get a good hd signal like discovery HD, or CBC, it looks great, but then HD PPV also looks full of noise.

Turn off BrilliantColor if you have it on. See if that helps.

Does anyone notice alot of noise? I am thinking its with the source, but I watched saw 2 the other day, and noise was really bad.

Was it the disc? I also notice as someone said its very unforgiving for bad hd sources, here in canada on bell, if you get a good hd signal like discovery HD, or CBC, it looks great, but then HD PPV also looks full of noise.

This would be due to source material and or connection issue.

I have turned brilliant color off, noise is the same its just darker, it might be a little harder to see but the noise is still the same, and I can see it.

I dont think its my connection, I have tried two different dvi cables, and its only on some sources. I find vga even worse.

Can someone try saw 2, and tell me if they see alot of noise as well?

As I said, it probably is the content. Try Drumline. I think you will be blown away for 480 source material.

Can someone try saw 2, and tell me if they see alot of noise as well?

I haven't seen Saw 2, but based on Saw 1 I'd say the really grainy, degraded, ugly look is probably intentional.

Don't confuse film grain with noise. They're not the same thing.

try the incredibles.

muncey

Just received my HC3000 a few days ago. Real happy so far. One question/issue. On startup the pj makes two distinctive "whirring" type noises before settling in. I hope this is normal and not the lamp failing to fire on the first try and doing so on the second. It does this on every startup so far ~5.
It goes like this. Push power on, 1st whirr, silence ~1-2sec, 2nd whirr, lamp fires, splash screen.
Also is it normal that the status light blinks for the first minute or so.

Thanks Adam.

Just received my HC3000 a few days ago. Real happy so far. One question/issue. On startup the pj makes two distinctive "whirring" type noises before settling in. I hope this is normal and not the lamp failing to fire on the first try and doing so on the second. It does this on every startup so far ~5.
It goes like this. Push power on, 1st whirr, silence ~1-2sec, 2nd whirr, lamp fires, splash screen.
Also is it normal that the status light blinks for the first minute or so.

Thanks Adam.

It's normal ;)

---- Jason

Thought so, but I feel better knowing for sure. Thanks Jason.

Anyone else having problemswith fleshtones glowing a little pink? I turned BC off and it went away? It also went away with BC on when I lowered the red contrast to -20. What would be causing this? Thanks!

Anyone else having problemswith fleshtones glowing a little pink? I turned BC off and it went away? It also went away with BC on when I lowered the red contrast to -20. What would be causing this? Thanks!

You need to calibrate.

The only color issues I have may be due to my screen (Firehawk). Really fair skinned people have a slightly greenish hue on their skin tones, but only if they are dead center on the screen. If they are off to the side, everything looks normal. Then again, I am the only one who notices this, so it could just be me.

Jason, how's the new screen working out ?

Jason, how's the new screen working out ?

Just got it up today and WOW !!!

--- I am in awe so far and I am not even filling the whole screen yet , still have to move the PJ back a couple feet to fill this huge screen (moving from an 84" to the 120") .

--- The immersion is just awesome , my son has been playing xbox 360 and has a constant ear to ear smile :D .

---------- Jason

Here is the new screen with Xbox 360 , I had to leave the side light on to make the set-up more visible otherwise all that could be seen is the HiPower screen since it almost glows (lol) . As you can see this is a constant height screen so only 2.35:1 will fill all the way to the sides (I need to work on a masking system next) .

http://home.comcast.net/~jlcburg3/wsb/media/19852/site1214.JPG


---- Jason

Congratulations ! Very nice. How do you like the immersive quality of PGR3's cockpit view now ? :D

One note of caution, be careful when installing the masking system. As I was just finishing installing black velvet drapes over the windows in my room yesterday, I lost my balance and fell and broke my hand. I'm going to be in a cast for 4 weeks. No golf and no Xbox 360. :( Lots of time for movies though, I can easily use the remote control with my left hand. :p

Who would of thought HT could be such a dangerous hobby ? ;)

Thank You !

--- PGR3 is very immersive from the cockpit view at this size , no doubt about it (and I even have the new MadCatz Xbox 360 wheel to add into the mix) ;) .

Funny you say to be careful because I fell backwards off my 4' step ladder while hanging the screen and lucky for me that I landed on my backside (lol) , I could have very easily landed on my head (ouch) .

Sorry to hear about the accident but glad to hear it was not worse .

Take Care !
--- Jason

Thanks. Good to hear you didn't get hurt. It's amazing how many accidents can happen around the house that involve a small ladder. :o

It's amazing how many accidents can happen around the house that involve a small ladder. :o

And at work. I just took a Ladder and Height safety class at work and according to OSHA falls from ladders are a very common injury in the workplace. They have stats claiming a fall from 6' ,from ground to bottom of feet, can kill you! :eek:

Glad you're okay!

And at work. I just took a Ladder and Height safety class at work and according to OSHA falls from ladders are a very common injury in the workplace. They have stats claiming a fall from 6' ,from ground to bottom of feet, can kill you! :eek:

Glad you're okay!
Thanks. I was only (this is embarrassing) 2' off the ground. I didn't even hit the ground with my body, I landed on my feet but smacked my hand on the back of a chair.

From the installation guide.

When the projector is mounted on the ceiling, im-ages may appear darker than those projected in the case of tabletop mounting. This isn't a product malfunction.•

Can anyone comment on picture quality tabletop vs.ceiling mount?

Thanks, Tim

From the installation guide.

When the projector is mounted on the ceiling, im-ages may appear darker than those projected in the case of tabletop mounting. This isn't a product malfunction.•

Can anyone comment on picture quality tabletop vs.ceiling mount?

Thanks, Tim


I could see no difference in brightness when using a matte white (BOC) screen . However this would be the case if using a retroreflective screen where the light is bounced back to the source .

-------- Jason

When the projector is mounted on the ceiling, im-ages may appear darker than those projected in the case of tabletop mounting. This isn't a product malfunction.

Can anyone comment on picture quality tabletop vs.ceiling mount?I noticed no real difference in brightness or PQ on my Da-Lite HCCV screen between table and ceiling mounting.

The HC3000 is such a light cannon as it is that any differences between the mounting positions is likely academic unless you're dealing with exotic screen materials.

Close the iris, turn the lamp to "Low" mode, and reduce your brightness and contrast settings. Many of us have also found it helpful to add a neutral density filter to the lens. A 72mm size filter will fit over the lens, but you'll need to hold it in place with some tape (the projector does not have threads to hold the filter on its own).

There are a bunchof neutral density filters. 2x 4x 8x etc; also uncoated and multicoated (which I guess would be good) What amount of reduction is reasonable. That is what reduction seems popular with this projector? I know this mayb e subjective but what seems to make a reasonable divverence visually? At $40 to $250 for a filter, I really don't want to try each density.

Has anyone seen the HC3000 next to the Optoma HD72? I'll be buying a projector in the next few days and can't make up my mind between these two!

Has anyone seen the HC3000 next to the Optoma HD72? I'll be buying a projector in the next few days and can't make up my mind between these two!


There have been a couple of AVSFORUM shootouts that usually come out with the Mitsubishi on top. Might be worth a search :) :)

Ok, stupid question time.... when trying to pick the "ideal" mounting spot for the HC3000, what is the best place:

a) closer to the screen with minimum zoom
b) farther from the screen with maximum zoom
c) somewhere in the middle and half zoom

with a ceiling mount, it appears that as the PJ moves away from the screen the top of the image will drop down on the wall, so this would limit the acceptable range. But, say PQ/brightness/sharpness/etc. were the only concerns, does it matter on the more/less zoom question? It seems like any lens system has to have a "sweet spot" were there is the least amount of distortions, abberations, etc. but I haven't seen this documented at all??

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff ,

--- Zero zoom generally gives the best image and this has been my finding with the HC3000 . As you zoom out you generally lose some edge focal quality . So if you can allow for the throw I would suggest zero zoom . My throw would be about 17'6" if I was not doing a constant height screen .

--------- Jason

I am getting a 16x9 96 inch screen, anyone know where the optimal ceiling mounting point is? as mentioned earlier if no zoom is best for quality that is what I am looking for.
thanks
Ankur

Ankur ,

--- Use the Projector Calculator from the Mitsubishi website , it works great . Plug in all your numbers and it will tell you exactly where to place the HC3000 (make sure you pick the correct model when you use the software) . It will give readings for both Max zoom and Zero zoom according to image size .

---------- Jason

The Mits screen distance calculator works pretty well, but I'd still advise that you verify the positioning with your actual PJ and screen before permanently mounting the PJ, esp if you are going with zero zoom -- just to prevent ending up with too much of the image spilling off the screen if your measurements are an inch or two off. I'd actually advise choosing a mounting distance that uses a little bit of zoom, maybe 10%, so you have a little room for adjustment to avoid this problem.

Yes , always verify before mounting (sound advice) .

---------- Jason

Jeff ,

--- Zero zoom generally gives the best image and this has been my finding with the HC3000 . As you zoom out you generally lose some edge focal quality . So if you can allow for the throw I would suggest zero zoom . My throw would be about 17'6" if I was not doing a constant height screen .

--------- Jason

My experience tends to differ. I have found that no matter what the zoom on the HC3000 the pq remains the same. If anything the sweetspot would be medium zoom.

There are a bunchof neutral density filters. 2x 4x 8x etc; also uncoated and multicoated (which I guess would be good) What amount of reduction is reasonable. That is what reduction seems popular with this projector? I know this mayb e subjective but what seems to make a reasonable divverence visually? At $40 to $250 for a filter, I really don't want to try each density.

My experience was that WITHOUT filter I got rid of RBE with the Contrast set to -25 - -30. I had the same "total lack of RBE" with a ND4 and Contrast at 0 (=max dynamic range). Now I'm using ND2 and occasionally see RBE, but not enough that I would bother changing the filter back.

Someone could do a nice mapping from Contrast settings to filter densities... I'd guess that if you see no RBE with Contrast on the range -15 - -20 you might be well off with ND2.

If you still see RBE with Contrast at -30, then try ND8, but note that you get ND8 by screwing ND4 and ND2 together.

But since the lamp will continue dimming I ordered both ND2 and ND4 with the plan to use ND4 with "new" lamp, no filter with "old" lamp, and ND in between. I paid 65 EUR (~ 80 USD) total for the filters delivered.

Jarno

Thanks for the good info Jarno I';ll paly with the contrast and see what to order. The cheapest Hoya filters with coating are $38 here so I may go with only one till I see how it works out.

Oh yes, I do not see RBE, I just suffer from white that blows my eyes out after a wile of viewing. Need to get the white brightness down some. Just bringing down the brightness adjustment dows not help much.

Here is the new screen with Xbox 360 , I had to leave the side light on to make the set-up more visible otherwise all that could be seen is the HiPower screen since it almost glows (lol) . As you can see this is a constant height screen so only 2.35:1 will fill all the way to the sides (I need to work on a masking system next) .

http://home.comcast.net/~jlcburg3/wsb/media/19852/site1214.JPG


---- Jason
Jason,

What is your ceiling height?

Distance from ceiling to middle of lens?

Distance from ceiling to top of screen?

I am considering this projector and your install measurements would help me confirm that it will work in my room.

Thanks for any additional info that would describe the physical aspects of using the Mits with its large offset. What is the offset in inches and % of screen height?

Appreciate your posts.

Thanks,
Henry

I am a projector newbie. I have had a HT theater setupin a deicated room for 2 years using a rear proj tv. I now want to upgrade to a projector. I ordered a Panasonic 900 from Costco. I am trying it se tup on a coffee table. then I began reading this thread and this projector sounds interesting . SO I ordered one to try.

I have used the calc from Mitsubishi website. I have a 10 ft ceiling and will be 16 ft from the screen. I plan to mount the projector in the ceiling . Looks like I can go up to a 155-120 inch screen?

Also I need to purchase a screen. What screen do you suggest for this projector? I have light colored walls and cannot completely control the light. I plan to use at night mainly for movies and some TV. It sounds like this projector may be bright enough to use during the day. The panasonic is clearly not for daytime use.

If I use a electric screen do I lose much in picture quality compared to a fixed screen?

I have a Denon 2900 DVD player. Will that work or do I need to get an upconverting DVD player to be able to use a HDMI cable? Right now I can only use component to the projector.

I would als like to hook up a computer and XBOX?

What cables do I need to have pulled for those?


Thanks for your help in advance?

Anything else I need to consider?

Jason,

What is your ceiling height?

Distance from ceiling to middle of lens?

Distance from ceiling to top of screen?

I am considering this projector and your install measurements would help me confirm that it will work in my room.

Thanks for any additional info that would describe the physical aspects of using the Mits with its large offset. What is the offset in inches and % of screen height?

Appreciate your posts.

Thanks,
Henry

Henry ,

--- Ceiling height is 8'
--- Not sure about ceiling to middle of lens , my mount has a 4" drop .
--- Ceiling to top of screen is about to change so I do not have that yet either , I have to move the PJ back a bit in order to get 2.35:1 to fill the width which means that the screen will be lowered from where it is currently .

------ Sorry that I do not have more info for you right now , once I get it all finished for constant height I would be happy to post the measurments .

----------- Jason

"I am a projector newbie. I have had a HT theater setupin a deicated room for 2 years using a rear proj tv. I now want to upgrade to a projector. I ordered a Panasonic 900 from Costco. I am trying it se tup on a coffee table. then I began reading this thread and this projector sounds interesting . SO I ordered one to try.

I have used the calc from Mitsubishi website. I have a 10 ft ceiling and will be 16 ft from the screen. I plan to mount the projector in the ceiling . Looks like I can go up to a 155-120 inch screen?

Also I need to purchase a screen. What screen do you suggest for this projector? I have light colored walls and cannot completely control the light. I plan to use at night mainly for movies and some TV. It sounds like this projector may be bright enough to use during the day. The panasonic is clearly not for daytime use.

If I use a electric screen do I lose much in picture quality compared to a fixed screen?

I have a Denon 2900 DVD player. Will that work or do I need to get an upconverting DVD player to be able to use a HDMI cable? Right now I can only use component to the projector.

I would als like to hook up a computer and XBOX?

What cables do I need to have pulled for those?


Thanks for your help in advance?

Anything else I need to consider? "




Go with what you want when it comes to screens. I tried a DYI and ended up with a BW Carada fixed screen and I am very happy with it. Spend some time searching the forum and read up on the pros and cons of rolled vs fixed. I originally wanted rolled but after researching went with fixed. The aesthetics of the fixed during the day are stunning, they can be easily removed in less than a minute so you can minimize the impact on your room if you are entertaining and do not want the screen displayed. This is an alternative to a rolled electric at a fraction of the cost.

Oh yes, I do not see RBE, I just suffer from white that blows my eyes out after a wile of viewing. Need to get the white brightness down some. Just bringing down the brightness adjustment dows not help much.

For me these "eye blowing" whites produce the RBE, but I can see how they are a problem even without RBE.

You are adjusting the wrong knob. "Brightness" is for setting the black level, "Contrast" is for setting the white level.

Henry ,

--- Ceiling height is 8'
--- Not sure about ceiling to middle of lens , my mount has a 4" drop .
--- Ceiling to top of screen is about to change so I do not have that yet either , I have to move the PJ back a bit in order to get 2.35:1 to fill the width which means that the screen will be lowered from where it is currently .

------ Sorry that I do not have more info for you right now , once I get it all finished for constant height I would be happy to post the measurments .

----------- Jason
Thanks Jason. The info you provided indicates that I can use the Mits on a 9' wall with a 94" x 96" screen and not be too low to the floor.

Appreciate the info.

Henry

Couple of points now that I've had my HC3000 up and running for a few days...

I'm using the Carada Brilliant White screen (110") and it looks great. I don't consider it too bright at all. Everybody scared me that my retinas were going to smoke with a screen > 1.0 gain, but I don't feel that way even with the lamp in standard mode and the iris open...

As far as the PJ setup, big, huge, thanks to DaGamePimp (or DaProjectorPimp as I now call him :)) for a few very important but not so obvious (to me anyway) tips. These are probably only 100% must-do things for HTPC guys, but worth looking at by everyone considering the drastic difference they made for me:

a) screw "REAL" aspect ratio. the manual leads you to believe that this would be the ideal mode to run true native resolution in. but in reality it does some scaling and screwing with the image which 16:9, 4:3 and auto do not. very obvious with test images.

b) go under the user settings and turn overscan to 100% (default is 97%). these 3 clicks just made an unbelievable different in sharpness and clarity. when using test images the change was night and day. pixel map city, i'm the mayor! :)

I have to say as a general comment that I'm just blown away at what you get for the money with this setup. I'm pretty picky when it comes to PQ and in the past I've never been all that impressed with what I saw in home theater stores coming from $15,000+ PJ's. This thing, pretty much right out of the box, just stops people in their tracks. The image is huge and the quality is incredible, it doesn't match a real theater experience -- it blow it away. I'm sure it will only get better as I tweak, and my God, I haven't even viewed any true HD content yet, so there's plenty to look forward to!!

The point of my rambling: anybody that hasn't made the switch to front projection based on what you had seen in the past, DO IT, go get one of these PJ's or something very similar and I can't imagine that you'd regret it.

Thanks
Jeff

I also have a brilliant white, and run in standard mode, I do admitt I love bright images, but I wonder if there is something with the brilliant white screen that makes us not find the image as bright.

I found this article at projectorcentral.com to be interesting.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/home_theater_screens.htm

It didn't measure the brilliant white specifically, but it did give measurements of all their test screens against a whiteboard reference, to let us the consumers know just how much light each screen reflects back relative to each other with the white board representing 100%.

Rick

Yea I am still curious since other brilliant white users dont find the picture bright if its something with the screen.

Maybe some do find it to bright I just missed it.

I do like a bright picture though, I am just wondering if thats the difference, or if our screen is playing a part.

well speaking of projector central, if you use their online calculator for the HC3000, it actually shows that 110" is too big *unless* you have a higher gain screen like 1.3-1.4. If you set the screen gain to 1.0 it moves it out of the green and into the yellow suggesting that you need to decrease your screen size. That was the final push that I needed to go ahead and order the BW screen, and now I'm super glad that I did.

I'm not one that goes crazy for "torch mode" brightness either. My CRT RPTV has been calibrated for years to be run in much lower than factory brightness (set up using Avia), but even with that background, out of the box this PJ doesn't seem overly bright to me.

My HC3000 ISF calibration is happening this Sunday (March 26th) so it will be interesting to see if I end up needing to use the Iris to get close to the 12FtL spec with the HiPower/Ceiling mount combo . Since the BW is very close to the gain of the HP with ceiling mounted PJ's this might help some of you to decide on the Iris (as far as it being closer to proper spec or not when in use) .


---- Best Wishes ,
------- Jason

Jason, please post back your thoughts after the cal, and if possible try to note what sorts of things the tech needed to mess with to get the PJ "perfect".

I think I have read somewhere that this PJ disables some of the image controls when fed with an HDMI input. If that's the case, does that mean the ISF will be tweaking things on the HTPC as well as the PJ itself?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff ,

--- Usually it is the Tint/Hue controls that do not operate with a digital connection (and sometimes Color) . So there might need to be some fine tweaking done at the HTPC .

--- Plus then you have different (levels) calibrations for Overlay and VMR9 . Overlay would be same as desktop (0-255) while VMR9 is (16-235) .

---------- Jason

The Carada BW is really not a positive gain screen but more of a matte white.

Every manufacturer assigns gains to their screen relative to a "base model" in their own line.

The Carada base model reflects less light than just about every other manufacturer, allowing a significant portion of the light to pass through the screen.

So their BW screen is like 1 1.3 gain relative to their matte white, but relative to a matte white from Draper or someone else it's really only about unity gain.

I have both a Carada grey and a BW screen, and I use the BW exclusively.

I originally had the grey screen installed (106 " diagonal) when I bought my projector (IF 5700) and it was a good match. However, as the bulb dimmed with use, the picture became to dim for my liking. At that point (about 800 hrs) I replaced my grey screen with the BW one, and liked the extra lumens.

I recently swapped out my 5700 with 1600 hours on the bulb for a unit with a brand new bulb and the image was waay too bright. Rainbows had never been an issue with me before but now I was seeing them quite frequently. Unfortunately my grey screen had developed some significant creasing during storage, so I kept the BW and added a X2 NR filter instead, which gives the same effect and is much easier to swap ina nd out compared to rehanging a different screen. Fortunately Infocus added a screw thread (72 mm) to the newer 5700s.

Oh, I figured that using carada's numbers, I needed to reduce my lumens by a factor of 1.625 (1.3/0.8), and therefore anything more than a X2 filter would be over-kill.

I know this is a HC3000 thread, not one for the IF5700, but I thought my observation on the Carada screens and filters might be relevant. The IF5700 does put out more light than the HC3000.

Really , I was under the impression that the BW was a 1.4 gain . I was also under the impression that there was a standard form for measuring gain but then I guess just like everything else certain companies assign specs based upon marketing and not factual information .

--- Good to know that about the BW however ;) .

--------- Jason

My HC3000 ISF calibration is happening this Sunday (March 26th) so it will be interesting to see if I end up needing to use the Iris to get close to the 12FtL spec with the HiPower/Ceiling mount combo.

I have been using this projector since mid-November. I moved up from a 100" hi-power pull down screen to a 133" Vutec BriteWhite (1.5 gain) fixed screen. I am using the projector at low lamp and closed iris mode with BC on. I haven't experienced any bulb dimming at 150 hours on the bulb. Moreover, I needed to set the contrast at -14 with Panny S97 and -24 with LG lst-3510a to keep the "white" on check. I haven't done any gray-scale calibration (still using 5900 temp mode). I will be interested in what you find after full ISF calibration.

Really , I was under the impression that the BW was a 1.4 gain . I was also under the impression that there was a standard form for measuring gain but then I guess just like everything else certain companies assign specs based upon marketing and not factual information .

A 1.4 gain means that the BW screen reflect 1.4 times the light of some reference screen. In this case that reference screen is Carada'Classic Cinema White screen. So you will get 40% more lumens with the BW than you would if you had used the same size in Classic Cinema White.

The problem is that there is no standard reference screen which all companies would use to evaluate the gain of their screens. Stewart, Draper and all the other screen manufacturers are obviously not going to use one of Carada's screens as a reference. Instead they use of their own screens.

The problem is that a stewart reference screen reflect a good deal more light than Carada's reference screen. Thus if we used the same screen that Stewart uses as a reference, the Carada BW's gain would be more like 1.1. In other words it really is a neutral gain screen and their Classic Cinema White screen is really a negative (less than 1.0) gain screen.

I have calibrated the projector, but I use a Lumagen VisonHDP sclaer, which made calibrating very easy. I have a very flat grayscale and a gamma of 2.3. Here is my calibration report.

A 1.4 gain means that the BW screen reflect 1.4 times the light of some reference screen. In this case that reference screen is Carada'Classic Cinema White screen. So you will get 40% more lumens with the BW than you would if you had used the same size in Classic Cinema White.

The problem is that there is no standard reference screen which all companies would use to evaluate the gain of their screens. Stewart, Draper and all the other screen manufacturers are obviously not going to use one of Carada's screens as a reference. Instead they use of their own screens.

The problem is that a stewart reference screen reflect a good deal more light than Carada's reference screen. Thus if we used the same screen that Stewart uses as a reference, the Carada BW's gain would be more like 1.1. In other words it really is a neutral gain screen and their Classic Cinema White screen is really a negative (less than 1.0) gain screen.


I am not buying this arguement. I had seen other reviews where the BW was measured at 1.25 gain and a StudioTek was measured at 1.3 gain. When I asked why is the BW less than specified I was told the reviewer always measures at 20 degree viewing angle (a typical ceiling mount to your seating position angle with a short throw projector). The StudioTek 130 has a slightly flatter cone (due to it's lower gain) so it held up better than the BW at 20 degrees. I was also under the impression from the reviewer that nobody wanted to ding the 130 since it is "the reference" so they "rounded up" to get 1.3 gain even though it was a bit less at 20 degrees.

I have small samples of many screens and I can't see much difference out to 30 degrees. But using small, untensioned samples is not the best for screen comparisons.

k

I tell ya...I have a 106" Severtson WHITE 1.4 gain, and with my HC3000U, I can NOT be any happier...Amazing peeps over there @ Severtson, and great prices too...

I have a cone of basically 170°...I LOVE this thing

I was once involved in a screen comparison, and when the Carada BW was compared to the StudioTek 130, the differences were minimal (to myself and other members in the audience), and hard to argue that one was necessarily superior to the other. The gain on both screens was very similar.

Just another take

Dave,

What are your settings after calibration?

I don't have them right at hand. I posted them WAY back earlier in this forum in January at some point when I calibrated the projector.

Dave

After the projector has been in use for awhile it is displaying a flicker, I probably only have about 70 hours on it.

Its also dissapointing when I set up user profiles on the remote (m1 m2 or m3) you can select lamp mode setting. When I play games or watch HD i like the realisim standard brightness gives. When I just watch SD material the brightness does not do anything but make the standard def material problems more visible. However I cannot manually set it on the remote av memory profiles! I have to manually go into the menu and change it each time.

On a side note, the flicker will dissapear when I switch to low, and then back to standard mode.

My ISF was done yesterday and the HC3000 hit about half marketed spec. on CR and Lumens (which is to be expected for HT use after a proper calibration) .

The HC3000 requires a good bit of calibration from out of the box settings in order to obtain an accurate image . I would suggest an ISF calibration to anybody that wants to see what this projector is capable of as the before and after were pretty obvious . It did come out very accurate however (after calibration) with only the magenta being just slightly off (primaries almost perfect D65) .

5900k offers better greyscale tracking vs. 6500k out of the box (if you cannot do your own calibration or get ISF) .

Factory cinema gamma is about perfect .

Brilliant Color should not be used for HT , just as I had observed before the ISF calibration .

With my setup we were able to get within 10% of the 12FtL spec on a 52" x 104" constant area screen by having the Iris closed , Eco lamp , Cinema Gamma , BC off (plus the actual ISF D65 calibration) .

We were able to hit nearly 1000 lumens with the lamp in eco/low mode with BC on and the Iris open (some other settings adjusted as well) so this is certainly a bright (capable) PJ if you need it for daytime non-critical viewing .

My ISF was done by krasmuzik and he spent many hours with the HC3000 gathering information in order to do a full review on it . I know he does offer mail in calibrations for those considering getting ISF'd and I can almost promise that no other calibrator out there will have as much technical information on the HC3000 as what he now has . He spent nearly 5 hours with the HC3000 on a single input (HDMI) just to gather as much information as possible regarding all the features (Iris , BC , etc. ) .

-------------- Jason

Jason: could you describe the major before and after differences/improvements in PQ you gained from the setup? Also you are using HTPC right? Any attempts to compare with a standalone DVD player(s)? Where your experiences with improvements similar with DVD and HD?

Thanks
Peter

Peter ,

Blacks = improved
Whites = improved
GreyScale = Near Perfect now (even factory 5900k is not perfect greyscale and 6500k is way off)
Contrast Ratio = improved (from where I had calibrated it with AVIA/DVE)

Depth of image is far superior and takes on a much more cinematic look now , does not look nearly as digital .

Skin Tones are amazingly real looking now .

Black detail is improved .

--- Yes I use an HTPC with VMR9 for DVD/HD playback and the HC3000 was calibrated using Colorfacts and an Accupel HD signal generator (Video Level) .

--- We did no standalone comparisons , I do not own any good standalone players currently as I just do not have a need for one .

--- Since I playback dvd and HD using VMR9 (via HTPC) my experience is that the ISF calibration made a drastic difference in the over-all image , basically every aspect was improved upon from a factory presets/AVIA type calibration ( well worth it ! ) .

--- The Component input has not been calibrated as of yet for the Xbox 360 but as soon as that is done I will post some thoughts on it as well .

;) ----------------- Jason

Jason,

Are you happy with the Mits or are you still gonna check out the Infocus IN76 when it becomes available?

Moe

I want to table mount this in a very small room 11' square how is the noise and heat
since it will be very close. It is rated as one of the most silient at 26db.

Jason,

Are you happy with the Mits or are you still gonna check out the Infocus IN76 when it becomes available?

Moe

Moe ,

-- I am enjoying the HC3000 but I still plan to see the IN76 for a direct comparison .


---------- Jason

I want to table mount this in a very small room 11' square how is the noise and heat
since it will be very close. It is rated as one of the most silient at 26db.

-- The HC3000 produces a decent amount of heat but then most digitals do . The noise level from this unit is one of quietest Projectors that I have heard .

----------- Jason

Peter ,

Depth of image is far superior and takes on a much more cinematic look now , does not look nearly as digital .

Skin Tones are amazingly real looking now .

my experience is that the ISF calibration made a drastic difference in the over-all image , basically every aspect was improved upon from a factory presets/AVIA type calibration ( well worth it ! ) .



Sounds like money and time well spent; congratulations. Is Kraz going to provide his assessment of the Mits?

Cheers
Peter

krasmuzik is about to launch a brand new website where he plans to have his reviews posted among other things also watch for his new way of showing the tech. specs , it is easy to read & understand for just about anybody (as he puts it "you will not need a degree in Color Science" ) . I am not certain of the specifics for his new website at this point but I would watch for it since you can expect in-depth and honest reviews from him (just as he has done in the past) .

----------- Jason

Thanks Jason; I'll look for it.

Peter

Moe ,

-- I am enjoying the HC3000 but I still plan to see the IN76 for a direct comparison .


---------- Jason
Jason, I look forward to your thoughts on the two. I've always enjoyed your insights on the 4805 board and even though I now have a Panny AE900 I'm really a dlp guy at heart.

Moe

Thanks Jason; I'll look for it.

Peter

I plan to have my website finalized with calibration reviews of the Infocus IN72 and MitsuHC3000 by APR1st (those wanting an IN76 review will have to wait). Reviews will be logon members only if I can figure it out a good password system. I would rather it be a private club that I can be privately honest - and not have to worry about manufacturers or dealers breathing down my neck for being too publicly honest :rolleyes: . If a buyer of their projector and my calibration services authorized posting of the review to the "club" - then hopefully that will keep me safe from any lawsuits. :eek:

My quick take on the Mitsu is imperceptible from perfect once calibrated - but they play up the marketed numbers and gimmicky presets as good as anyone - obviously 4000:1 contrast and 1000 lumens is not a calibrated number! It was nice to see a custom gamma editor - but it did not need it as Cinema was perfect as DaGamePimp had already guessed, but greyscale needed work as it was affecting the colors.

My new review charts have been previewed last summer in the calibration charts for dummies stickies thread in the calibration forum - but wait until I provide friendly explanations on the website. My reviews will be unique as I will strive to do as many projector modes as possible - people can then make their own tradeoffs on the balance between marketing specs and engineering specs.

How to check lamp hours

For those who need to know the following works for me:

Using the projector buttons press UP, DOWN and ENTER at the same time...hold for 6 seconds. The display will show lamp hours, firmware version (mine is 2.0) and other items.
To exit press MENU twice.

Krasmuzik,
Did you enter the service menu at all? I was able to calibrate the display pretty close to perfect, but I had to use my Lumagen scaler in order to do this because of the color controls being locked out via HDMI. If you did go into the service menu, how was it done?

Thanks,

Dave

PS I have a Milori Colorfacts system as well.

Dave ,

--- No service menu adjustment was used (or needed for that matter) .

----------- Jason

Hi,

I have a question. Can I use D65 calibration values performed on another HC3000 and enter them in my HC3000 with good result? Or must my unit be calibrated separately?

By the way, does anyone have a good set up calibration i.e should I turn brightness to -10 ?

Regards, Anders

I have a question. Can I use D65 calibration values performed on another HC3000 and enter them in my HC3000 with good result? Or must my unit be calibrated separately?

You can't use another person's settings. Your calibration will be affected by a number of unique factors: screen color and gain, image size, hours on lamp, ambient light and light reflections in room. Every person's settings are different, and your settings will change over time as your lamp ages (it takes about 100 hours for the lamp to break in, and you'll see a noticeable variance in that time). There are certain rule-of-thumb tips you can follow, but you have to do your own calibration.

Has anyone actually figured out how to enter the service menu on the HC3000?

Has anyone actually figured out how to enter the service menu on the HC3000?

There is no service menu per se'. I emailed Mits and they called me yesterday and informed me the only menu is the "user" menu which offers basic tweaking for the average user.

The only way to "ISF" professionally calibrate it is through a Video processor like a Lumagen according to MIts tech service.

You can't use another person's settings. Your calibration will be affected by a number of unique factors: screen color and gain, image size, hours on lamp, ambient light and light reflections in room. Every person's settings are different, and your settings will change over time as your lamp ages (it takes about 100 hours for the lamp to break in, and you'll see a noticeable variance in that time). There are certain rule-of-thumb tips you can follow, but you have to do your own calibration.


If the settings change over time then what good is an ISF calibration?

I think you meant to say the lamp ages and NEW settings may be required to keep the great image. Which brings me to my first question, what good is an ISF calibration if it is only valid for a couple hundred hours? What is the "MSRP" of such a calibration? I am trying to determine $/hours use here to see if it is worth it.

k

If the settings change over time then what good is an ISF calibration?

ISF recommends you have them calibrate your equipment every year or two. Even CRT RPTV settings drift over time as their tubes age.

To clarify what I said above, it takes about 100 hours for your lamp to break in initially. After that many hours, it should settle in to a certain sweet spot that will last you for a while. You don't have to recalibrate every hundred hours.

Dave ,

--- No service menu adjustment was used (or needed for that matter) .

----------- Jason

Jason,
I think some of our fellow members here want you to share your settings and see where that gets them. Care to share with them? At least that would be a good starting place for them even though everyones scenario is unique.

Also, how about a detailed description on every setting that was adjusted to achieve the calibration and in what part of the user menu.

Kipp ,

--- Sorry but I will not do that , and the reasons go beyond the fact that my settings will not make anybody else's HC3000 ISF'd due to so many variables . You also have to take into account the ISF technitions work/effort , so even if there were magic numbers that worked for everyone (like the 4805's DVI Video Level settings) it would be a moral/ethical issue to distribute that work for free (after all this is how many of these guys make a living) .


--- Besides all that the numbers would get spread around the net and people would then assume that simply plugging them in would be instant ISF (which would obviously not be the case) .

--- I have a profound respect for what ISF techs do as I once aspired to do it myself and still toss the idea around from time to time since I already have a much greater grasp of what ISF is than most people . Realize that many of these techs have $10K plus worth of calibration gear to pay for ;) .

:D ------------- Jason

I will state that the closest you can get out of the box with factory settings is the following :

Gamma = Cinema
Color Temp = 5900K (because it has a better greyscale than the factory 6500K)
Iris = Closed (unless you are using a screen over 9' wide)
BC = Off

Start there and do your AVIA/DVE Brightness/Contrast/Color/etc.


------------- Jason

Krasmuzik,
Did you enter the service menu at all? I was able to calibrate the display pretty close to perfect, but I had to use my Lumagen scaler in order to do this because of the color controls being locked out via HDMI. If you did go into the service menu, how was it done?

Thanks,

Dave

PS I have a Milori Colorfacts system as well.

No need for video controls with HDMI as long as it is RGB - the video decoding is done on the source. If it was HDMI YCbCr (which I did not test) - then you might think you need the controls - but you should not. The whole purpose of the colot/tint controls was to adjust for amplitude/phase of the chroma decoder in composite video. With digital the amplitude is correct by definition, and with component the phase is correct by virtue of two chroma signals. So the only reason to adjust these is to adjust for a bad media - and these controls belong on the source with the video decoder. There have been some displays that do implement these controls for marketing reasons (TVs have to have video controls) - and they did it by converting the RGB back to video and back to RGB again - yuck!

In DaGamePimps case he uses the HTPC and adjusts the video controls with ffdshow - he did not need my help there - beyond knowing the display was correct so he can properly readjust the video.

Hi,

I have a question. Can I use D65 calibration values performed on another HC3000 and enter them in my HC3000 with good result? Or must my unit be calibrated separately?

By the way, does anyone have a good set up calibration i.e should I turn brightness to -10 ?

Regards, Anders

RANT OFF

Brightness/Contrast settings are dependent on your sources - the only ones worth trading would be for video DVI vs. PC DVI if the box does not recognize that. This Mitsu was not calibrated for either - so I would have to assume there is no consistency on the box - so you best learn how to use the test DVD - even a free THX release if it is recent. So I would not count on DaGamePimps brightness/contrast settings to match digital sources (especially since I use a hybrid of those controls with greyscale controls to get best results). And forget analog sources - voltage variability is the reason these controls exist in the first place!

On the SP4805 it was consistent how to match up to video vs. PC DVI - and I never discouraged sharing that info - it was Infocus that provided it. Had I used $$$$ equipment to reverse engineer the settings myself or attended factory seminars at $$$$ cost - and no other calibrator had done it yet - depends on how freely I wanted to distribute something that cost me money to determine or learn. I would prefer to save such things for customers to justify my added value.


RGB gain/offsets for proper color temperature is to calibrate the greyscale of individual projectors. You may think since it is a digital box these numbers can be traded - but the major error in greyscale comes from the lamp. I inspected every SP4805 I installed - and the greyscale error was within 10% - but more importantly the error was all over the map as far as direction of color push goes. Even worse - one customer's lamp aged yellow - rather than blue! I would suspect projectors like the Mitsu that are not factory calibrated to be even worse in the inconsistency of calibrated greyscale settings. If there was a magic number that "worked" here - don't you think Mitsu would have installed the number at the factory? Infocus is precalibrated at the factory - but they do not use magic numbers either - they use their calibration sensors on the manufacturing line.


As a calibrator I would never share these greyscale numbers - because I know it may just make their factory calibration worse and delude them into thinking they are calibrated - because of the analog components in their system. LCD is even worse greyscale variance than DLP - because the panel itself is organic driven by voltages - it is not digital like the DLP DMD (which itself could be variable with firmware rev). Providing the closest presets is the best you can do - and that information will be in my reviews - every digital projector out there has a lamp - and lamps vary on colortemp. Period.

If you want to learn to calibrate greyscale - look into the Spyder2 family of software - there are various hacks at getting the data - but the only officially supported version that does display greyscale (without mucking with video cards) is the soon to be released SpyderTV Pro - at the cost of a couple ISF visits (or a number of mail-in calibrations) or ColorFacts Pro (at the cost of dozens of ISF!) It is a good way to go if you have lots of displays or flip them frequently - or are as anal as I and have to retweak every 100 hours to stay within 1% - or you want to get started as a PRO thru DIY learning

I do not discourage DIY calibrators - every ISFer started that way - and anyone that knows me knows I freely share info on my presets to get the best out of their display - and how to use the test pattern DVDs. I just want people to learn to do it right - and I have always been willing to help (and AVS now has a calibration forum for those who want to learn) . If I can figure it out I have considering adding a private forum for each projector on my website - for those who DIY or ISF calibrate themselves - and want to share tips & tracks to learn to DIR (Do It Right ) rather than DIW (Do It Wrong) . Copying someone elses greyscale numbers is DIW - and I would question any ISFers abilities that shares this - they should know better - not from a .biz point of view - but from a technology point of view. I have even heard of so called calibrators selling these greyscale numbers over the phone - and that is just plain outright fraud!

Anders - this RANT is not directed at you - just trying to address a popular misconception.

RANT OFF

If the settings change over time then what good is an ISF calibration?

I think you meant to say the lamp ages and NEW settings may be required to keep the great image. Which brings me to my first question, what good is an ISF calibration if it is only valid for a couple hundred hours? What is the "MSRP" of such a calibration? I am trying to determine $/hours use here to see if it is worth it.

k


I recently profiled my 1500 hour faded lamp in the SP4805 demo - which saw hard time on a sales kiosk. It was still closer on a factory reset than the Mitsu was fresh out of the box since they are calibrated at the factory within 10% (often 5%). Of course the lumens were toast - but that was expected - I never trust ANSI lamp life numbers which is why I design setups for 12ftL minimum rather than 8ftL or less as some do. I would say that a retune is worth it every thousand hours - as long as the retune is less because it was properly setup to begin with it should only be a few clicks to correct.

'MSRP' of ISF calibrations for front projection is $325 first input and $125 next inputs. I as well as others (guitarman for Optoma) who generally do not do travel tours for big boxy TVs have started accepting mail-in calibrations since it is priced better for this cheaper projector forum - if you can handle the basic video adjustments with the test pattern DVD (which the in-home ISF does) - then this is a less expensive way to go to get a 'refactory' greyscale using reference equipment. But generally I would say name another videophile service that cost 10% of your system but returns benefit greater than 10%?

It is best to wait until lamp burn-in if you want a calibration to last - luckily it does not take long for a torch to settle in - over hundred lamp hours is good. If it was done fresh out of the box - it is likely to change in the burn-in period - but you have to weigh that against how objectionally far off it was to begin with! If you do lots of hours in a year you should consider an annual tuneup - use the same guy and you likely get a deal on repeat service.

There is no service menu per se'. I emailed Mits and they called me yesterday and informed me the only menu is the "user" menu which offers basic tweaking for the average user.

The only way to "ISF" professionally calibrate it is through a Video processor like a Lumagen according to MIts tech service.

They do not know their own box - you select user1 greyscale which is same as the 6500K preset (which is not even close to that BTW) - and all the RGB gains/offsets you need are there. Since the gamma is flat with Cinema - an experienced calibrator can get a flatlined greyscale using the user controls - and I must say I was surprised to see custom gamma controls in the user menu!. Of course flatlining greyscale while keeping gamma flatlined and maximizing brightness/contrast? That takes experience.

Lumagen calibration should be used as a last resort for when the display is simply not possible - since DVI is limited to 8b RGB data - it is hard to communicate greyscale changes without banding - and HDMI YCbCr or Component YPbPr - would still require display greyscale. A Lumagen is a great calibration source for more basic video adjust memories and as a switcher/scaler if you have lots of different sources.

I will state that the closest you can get out of the box with factory settings is the following :

Gamma = Cinema
Color Temp = 5900K (because it has a better greyscale than the factory 6500K)
Iris = Closed (unless you are using a screen over 9' wide)
BC = Off

Start there and do your AVIA/DVE Brightness/Contrast/Color/etc.


------------- Jason

Gain screen required over 7' wide - the High Power looked pretty good (may net 1.4-1.5 gain with ceiling mount) and should last with the IRIS closed for a while.

Gain screen required over 7' wide - the High Power looked pretty good (may net 1.4-1.5 gain with ceiling mount) and should last with the IRIS closed for a while.

Ah yes , good point ( forgot about the screen gain ;) ) .

-------- Jason

Does anyone know the right 5 digit preset code to tell my Denon 4306 remote control which IR codes to send for controlling the HC3000? I've tried most of the basic Mistubishi codes provided in the Denon manual, to no avail. :confused:

Thanks,
Dan

SOLUTION: I just went ahead and taught the remote manually, so never mind!

what is the the best screen size, and the best material like the carada BW or grey?
for the mit 3000. please feel free to wade in with your opinion, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks! Frank

what is the the best screen size,

That's going to almost entirely depend on your room and your personal preferences.

what is the the best screen size, and the best material like the carada BW or grey?
for the mit 3000. please feel free to wade in with your opinion, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks! Frank

Carada suggests the BW.

my room size is 13 by 22, what size and kind of screens do you have for your mit 3000. and why?
Thanks! Frank

12.5 x 20 x 9' high.
106" diag Firehawk.
Like bright pic with a little ambient light.

My 2nd choice is Carada BW at 1/2 the price.

I had a Carada 92" grey screen with a 4805 and was happy as well.

12' x 17' (8' ceiling)
52" x 104" DaLite Model C HiPower pulldown with CSR (2.0 Constant Area screen - allows for a larger 16:9 image vs. going with a CinemaScope 2.35:1 screen)

Stewarts are the best but too expensive IMO .
I have not seen the Carada and there are no local places to see it in my area .
I have tried all the grey screens out there (except the Stewarts) and they all have too much sheen (sparklie effect) in my opinion .

---------- Jason

i am using a 110" carada bw and it looks great with the 3000.

muncey

88" firehawk here...but I only sit about 12 feet back, so it is the perfect size for my room.

I will state that the closest you can get out of the box with factory settings is the following :

Gamma = Cinema
Color Temp = 5900K (because it has a better greyscale than the factory 6500K)
Iris = Closed (unless you are using a screen over 9' wide)
BC = Off

Start there and do your AVIA/DVE Brightness/Contrast/Color/etc.


------------- Jason

Jason, I fully respect your stance on not sharing your specific calibration details (for both reasons that you mention). Is it infringing on this to ask whether you would suggest the bulb to be in standard or low mode to go along with the "startup" settings you listed above?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff ,

--- Not at all , that is just another thing that I forgot to mention ;) .

--- Low mode .

---------- Jason

Here are a few pictures of my HC3000 with the Dazian PVC material.

Screen is 118 inches, projecting from 16ft. I built my pj and components into the wall. PJ gets plenty of ventilation and does not run hot.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/turbotim/IMG_8816.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/turbotim/IMG_8792.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/turbotim/IMG_8805.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/turbotim/IMG_8809.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/turbotim/IMG_8808.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/turbotim/IMG_8814.jpg


Pictures look much better in person. PQ is amazing.

Nice innovation, Tim. How tough was that cutting out the wall and getting deep enough shelves in there? Our master bedroom's closet is on the other side of my wall, so I've considered just putting my HC3000 into the closet and cutting a hole through to the living room and using good glass. But your shelf unit looks good!

Rick

Just bought HC3000 from best buy. Now I am trying to figure out all the options. To start off, should I be running the projector in low lamp mode for a dedicated home theater it is completely light controlled?
Also with that vertical shift setting under installation does that distort the image at all?, I have a 89 inch ceiling and was wondering if I flush mount the projector, if I could possibly use that to adjust my screen height without any distortions, right now with 92/96 inch screen if flush mounted and the projector is straight no angle up, i have about 22-25 inch screen height above the floor, just want to raise it a little more.
Thanks
Ankur

ankuse,

AVS does not want prices discussed. I'd edit out the price.

mech

To start off, should I be running the projector in low lamp mode for a dedicated home theater it is completely light controlled?

Most likely, yes, but this will depend on your screen size. Larger screens may require more light output. However, the HC3000 is such a light cannon that even Low mode should accomodate large screens.

Also with that vertical shift setting under installation does that distort the image at all?

No, all it does is slide the 16:9 1280x720 movie image up or down within the 1280x768 pixel grid. No distortion. It only has 48 pixels to move though (24 in either direction), which isn't a whole lot of movement.

Josh,
Depending on the screen size though, 24 pixels can be a pretty big move (a couple of inches)

ankuse,

AVS does not want prices discussed. I'd edit out the price.

mech

So I can't say how much I payed for mine with my employee discount at Best Buy :)

So I can't say how much I payed for mine with my employee discount at Best Buy :)
No. But I bet your price was similar to what I paid! ;)

mech

Hi All,
I'm travelling home from Japan so I can buy pretty cheap. I won't have a dedicated theater room so its important to me that my projector can be reasonably watchable with some ambient light. I can get the TW600/550/800 for about $400 dollars cheaper but believe the hc3000 to have a higher quality image. When I'm at an electronics store here however, I can't really ask the guys what light mode etc I'm looking at. The hc300 seems to be around the same brightness. I know many of you out there use words such as light canon to describe the brightness of the hc3000, but could anyone give me some impressions or info as to how it stacks up to the epson which is rated at 1600 lumens?

Nice innovation, Tim. How tough was that cutting out the wall and getting deep enough shelves in there? Our master bedroom's closet is on the other side of my wall, so I've considered just putting my HC3000 into the closet and cutting a hole through to the living room and using good glass. But your shelf unit looks good!

Rick


It was the first time I attempted anything like that. I have a closet behind the wall also. I went to Lowes and bought an unfinished cabinet and removed the front panel and door. That is all I really wanted. Then I built all the insides. It wasn't really that hard just a little nerve racking cutting the hole in the wall.

I fixed the pictures I had posted also. Photobucket had resized them.

Ultimate A/V just tested the Mits HC3000... they like it!

http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/406mits/

No, all it does is slide the 16:9 1280x720 movie image up or down within the 1280x768 pixel grid. No distortion. It only has 48 pixels to move though (24 in either direction), which isn't a whole lot of movement.

I've been meaning to ask about this for a while. On mine and my buddy's, if we go to anything less than -6 (i.e. -7,-8, etc.) it starts cutting off the bottom of the image. The top of the image moves down more and more, but the bottom of the projected image holds steady and just "eats" the bottom most lines. What is the deal here? If I could actually go to -24 it would be incredible for my particular setup since otherwise I have to angle the PJ slightly and introduce some keystoning.

Or is this perhaps not a 1:1 mapping? For example, if each "click" on the setup screen was 4 scanlines, than -6 would be shifting it down 24 scanlines and it would make sense that it would start clipping after that.

Thanks,
Jeff

Ultimate A/V just tested the Mits HC3000... they like it!

http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/406mits/


Nice review , good to see the HC3000 getting more respect .

--------- Jason

I've been meaning to ask about this for a while. On mine and my buddy's, if we go to anything less than -6 (i.e. -7,-8, etc.) it starts cutting off the bottom of the image. The top of the image moves down more and more, but the bottom of the projected image holds steady and just "eats" the bottom most lines. What is the deal here? If I could actually go to -24 it would be incredible for my particular setup since otherwise I have to angle the PJ slightly and introduce some keystoning.

Or is this perhaps not a 1:1 mapping? For example, if each "click" on the setup screen was 4 scanlines, than -6 would be shifting it down 24 scanlines and it would make sense that it would start clipping after that.

Thanks,
Jeff

You are actually shifting part of the 16:9 image off the DMD Panel (if too much shift is used) , toss up some 2.35:1 and watch how far you can shift it up and down ;) .

----------- Jason

Or is this perhaps not a 1:1 mapping? For example, if each "click" on the setup screen was 4 scanlines, than -6 would be shifting it down 24 scanlines and it would make sense that it would start clipping after that.

I believe that's correct. I'll have to check my settings, but -6 sounds right.

any suggestions on a flush ceiling mount, my ceiling is 89 inches, so i want a mount to get close as possilble to the ceiling since i am planning a 92/96 inch screen. also does anyone know of local retailers selling it, or should I buy online.
Thanks

I've had the Mitsubishi HC3000U for about 2 weeks now, been working great until today.

Now, the picture is flickering in the top left and bottom right corners. It does this with any source.

I have no idea what to do. Has anyone experienced this before?

Any help would be great, thanks

Also, when I switch the lamp mode to "low", the flickering seems to mostly disapear, but returns when I switch it back to normal.

You are actually shifting part of the 16:9 image off the DMD Panel (if too much shift is used) , toss up some 2.35:1 and watch how far you can shift it up and down ;) .

----------- Jason

Jason,

I was considering purchasing a 112 inch 2.05 aspect ratio screen from Carada as a compromise between 1.78 and 2.35. I was thinking I could use the full screen height for 1.78 and try to zoom out for 2.35 movies. This would give me a 100 inch 1.78 image and a 109 inch 2.35 image.

If I understand you correctly, I should be able to shift the 2.35 movie up (~5 inches) to eliminate the black bars above the movie and fit the image on the screen.

Thanks,
Jon

Has anyone measured the brightness at minimum throw and maximum throw? Is there any difference, and how is the sharpness at each? My HC3000 is showing up tomorrow and I want to map out the ceiling for the mount and want the best placement for higher brightness and sharpness.
Thanks

any suggestions on a flush ceiling mount, my ceiling is 89 inches, so i want a mount to get close as possilble to the ceiling since i am planning a 92/96 inch screen. also does anyone know of local retailers selling it, or should I buy online.
Thanks

I think the Chief Universal mount is the most flush that you can get . My Sanus Universal is about a 4" drop .

---------- Jason

I've had the Mitsubishi HC3000U for about 2 weeks now, been working great until today.

Now, the picture is flickering in the top left and bottom right corners. It does this with any source.

I have no idea what to do. Has anyone experienced this before?

Any help would be great, thanks

Also, when I switch the lamp mode to "low", the flickering seems to mostly disapear, but returns when I switch it back to normal.

Sounds like a lamp arcing issue that could be the lamp itself or even the power supply , I would return the unit if it were mine ;) . Sometimes the lamps need to run in high power (normal) to settle in but if you have been running in normal for many hours and it is not working then be cautious of a possible defective lamp .

Best of Luck ,
--- Jason

Jason,

I was considering purchasing a 112 inch 2.05 aspect ratio screen from Carada as a compromise between 1.78 and 2.35. I was thinking I could use the full screen height for 1.78 and try to zoom out for 2.35 movies. This would give me a 100 inch 1.78 image and a 109 inch 2.35 image.

If I understand you correctly, I should be able to shift the 2.35 movie up (~5 inches) to eliminate the black bars above the movie and fit the image on the screen.

Thanks,
Jon

That is exactly what I am doing with my 2.0 screen (zoom in for 1.78 and out for 2.35) .

Yes , with 2.35:1 material you should have more than enough adjustment , I had over half of an image shifted totally off the DMD the other day when messing around with the shift function .

----------- Jason

Has anyone measured the brightness at minimum throw and maximum throw? Is there any difference, and how is the sharpness at each? My HC3000 is showing up tomorrow and I want to map out the ceiling for the mount and want the best placement for higher brightness and sharpness.
Thanks


Most specs are for zero zoom and I would suggest this with the HC3000 as the optics are not high end by any means ( no Carl Zeiss lenses here ) . The optics are not bad and they are all glass but you might end up with some color flaring at full zoom .

----------- Jason

Originally Posted by baumanj
Jason,

I was considering purchasing a 112 inch 2.05 aspect ratio screen from Carada as a compromise between 1.78 and 2.35. I was thinking I could use the full screen height for 1.78 and try to zoom out for 2.35 movies. This would give me a 100 inch 1.78 image and a 109 inch 2.35 image.

If I understand you correctly, I should be able to shift the 2.35 movie up (~5 inches) to eliminate the black bars above the movie and fit the image on the screen.

Thanks,
Jon

That is exactly what I am doing with my 2.0 screen (zoom in for 1.78 and out for 2.35) .

Yes , with 2.35:1 material you should have more than enough adjustment , I had over half of an image shifted totally off the DMD the other day when messing around with the shift function .

----------- Jason
By doing this, aren't you just trading the black bars from 2:35 movies to black bars with 1.78 movies? Masking is still required, but now it's for 1.78 material instead of 2.35?