Greetings, :)
I happened to notice lately a ton of new owners in the screens area, DVD players area, here ofcourse stating they're using one of these two projectors. How many happy owners do we have out there?

Me I love the machine it excells in many area's over my past projectors. The only time I may upgrade is a 1080p machine but I'll tell you, I was at a store this week looking at the 1080p Samsungs and didn't notice any difference between them and the last years models sitting right next to them. Maybe things will be different with super large screens, maybe.

Anyway still more tha happy right now with the H79.

Put me down in the happy 79 column. I still haven't got the hang of calibrating the thing with the Avia/DE disks because I'm still working on other things.

Practice makes perfect with the Avia guide to home theater. I've used the thing so many times it's become my right hand man. Anything new that DVD is the first thing I use.

First thing I do is go to the main menu / Video Test Patterns, Grayscales & Levels, Black & White Levels, at the top there's Contrast/Whites top left, Brightnees/blacks top right collum. Use these both till the lighter moving bar just disappears then a click back till it re-appears, bounce back and forth between them a few time because they effect each other.

From there I'll back out to the main menu and use the Basic Patterns to tune Color, Tint, Sharpness if available. That's it.

With the H79/H78 you first start out by setting Image to TV and Colortemp 2. In the Picture menu choose Cinema and Gamma 1.

I was at a store this week looking at the 1080p Samsungs and didn't notice any difference between them and the last years models sitting right next to themThat is interesting. I had the opposite experience at Magnolia. 1080p Samsung RP with a last year's 720p wobulated right next to it on one side and Mitsubishi conventional 720p DLP RP right next to it on the other side. The 1080p was noticeably sharper, and, just as noticable, had better contrast (deeper blacks, more saturated colors, etc). This could well come down to set-up because, I can assure you, the differences were not subtle. So much so that I am wondering if it is worth holding out for wobulated 1080p in FP. I think that would swamp differnces between, say DC2 & DC3 HD2+.

This was all on HD feed. Perhaps that brought out the differences more ?

The main thing I didn't like about the Samsung 1080p was there was a distracting fixed grain/sheen pattern on the screen.

Brent

They had a baseball game going, also at a Magonlia. I mainly looked at the 1080p shelf model then over to last years Kirk model. Couldn't see what the big difference was, both showing HD also. Probably on a 120" screen is where you could see something. Though Alan said he didn't see such a huge difference between his 1080p projector and 720p models.

I am even more happy than I was at the beginning! My HT was finally finished a couple of days ago. I had UMR from AccuCal thow down an ISF calibration on my H78 last night. The results are nothing short of spectacular. This PJ has got some major CR as well, measured at 2314 pre-calibration. The gamma needed the most work, it was a bit off. It looks unfreakingbelievable at this point. I'm using a 118" Screen Innovations 1.3 Theater Reference screen. Sources are a Pioneer DV-59AVI, Panasonic DVD-S97, Dish DVR-942, & Xbox. Big props to UMR & Optoma, highly recommended :)!

AccuCal (http://www.accucal.org/)

They had a baseball game going, also at a Magonlia. I mainly looked at the 1080p shelf model then over to last years Kirk model. Couldn't see what the big difference was, both showing HD also. Probably on a 120" screen is where you could see something. Though Alan said he didn't see such a huge difference between his 1080p projector and 720p models.

This all comes down to source, processing, and display calibration.

A long time ago I had an SX21 with anamorphic lens and HD Leeza for true 1080i deinterlacing--not the bob garbage provided by most displays. With Comcast HD cable, the SX21 easily wiped the floor in terms of raw detail and clarity compared to every 720p DLP I've owned to date, including the 12K (whose 1080i deinterlacing was excellent) and the H79 (whose 1080i deinterlacing is acceptable, but still of the bob variety). And the SX21 is only 1400x1050.

I respect Alan's opinion, but I don't think the sources and processing he employs in his comparisons are up to snuff. He needs to get an HD Leeza in the mix for 1080i demos. It sucks for SD processing but its HD processing is quite good. The DragonFly should also provide proper 1080i processing.

The bottom line for me is that I still see jagged edges and other evidence of pixel structure on 720p displays. Such sightings on the SX21 were few and far between. Even DVDs look more detailed when scaled to higher resolutions. Count me as one of those who's eager for 1080p front projection.

And to keep my post on-topic, I also enjoy my H79. Great projector for the money :)

That sound hopeful, maybe we'll hear something soon. Optoma's new scaler sounds like a winner if the price is right.

Hey Patrick that's allot of items hooked up, how many signals did you get tuned? Interesting the H78 was at the 2300.1 range you know the H79 gets a little higher than that. Did you get a higher CR after the tuning?

I am even more happy than I was at the beginning! My HT was finally finished a couple of days ago. I had UMR from AccuCal thow down an ISF calibration on my H78 last night. The results are nothing short of spectacular. This PJ has got some major CR as well, measured at 2314 pre-calibration. The gamma needed the most work, it was a bit off. It looks unfreakingbelievable at this point. I'm using a 118" Screen Innovations 1.3 Theater Reference screen. Sources are a Pioneer DV-59AVI, Panasonic DVD-S97, Dish DVR-942, & Xbox. Big props to UMR & Optoma, highly recommended :)!

AccuCal (http://www.accucal.org/)
Thanks for the positive comments.

Patrick's setup is VERY nice and that projector calibrated out extremely well. The H78 appears to be a great value.

umr, what lumens level did you read with the Accupel?

The AccuPel cannot measure anything. I also did not take measurements with the idea of calculating lumens exactly.

Greg Rodgers confused me then. He always states the Accupel was used for measuring CR,Lumens etc. He must be using a light meter but never mentions which one.

I had several friends over who had seen my previous projector but not the H79 and all immediately commented spontaneously on the clear difference, in favor of the H79. They used words like "deeper," "brighter," "clearer." The novice viewers kept wanting to attribute the picture to the screen but it was the same High Power as always. The source, HD Spiderman 2 from my Dish 942, undoubtedly played a role in those perceptions.

The bulb now has about 400 hours on it and the reds are seemingly tamer. Given my 116" wide image I find the brightness just becoming ideal now as the bulb dims. Although I'm sure an objective measure of CR would not show a significant change but, perhaps due to the better black level, subjectively the image now looks deeper than when the bulb was brighter. Probably, given my sources, the High Power resulted in a too-bright when the bulb was new.

Regarding calibration, I'm due for another one now that the bulb has settled down in terms of color shifting. After going through about a couple of dozen calibrations with ColorFacts with my previous pj and maybe six with a Progressive setup with the H79 I feel I can "eyeball" it with the advanced adjustments and get what looks like a good grayscale. I'm always curious how far off I am when Kevin Anderson comes over to do the real ISF thing.

Still, occasionally I see pixels at 1.5 x and a 1080p pj will be next, but the H79 will do very nicely for the next year or two.

Dan

I am still absolutely thrilled with my H79 - especially watching 2.35:1 movies on my 2.35:1 screen !! In fact, we're having neighbors over for a movie night tonite ( Wed. nights are movie nights at our house )!! I've stopped even thinking about upgrades and having to buy stuff for my home theater thanks to the H79 - I'm just enjoying having people over to watch movies with us ( one neighbor said " the picture is so clear - I can't watch movies on my tiny 50" big screen tv anymore now" - HA )!!! :D

Craig, the SDI moded Matsushita chipped players do look very clean and clear, like the one you have. The first guy to send me a PJ to tune sent an SDI moded S97. I was amazed at how clear and sharp the Fifth Element looked.

Well, I have a bone to pick with Optoma regarding their customer service and marketing methods but since this is a "happy" thread...every time I fire up the H79 I am nothing short of ecstatic. Someone did something right designing this thing (at least from a PQ point of view). The last thing I feel I should I should be is reward Optoma (the corporation) with a nod of approval but the H79 is truly a great HT projector!

BTW, I am running it with a Sony DVP-NC555ES player over component and I can't say enough good things about this player-built like a tank, very underrated IMHO. I also tried the Oppo over DVI mainly for PAL (excellent picture but couldn't live with the lip-sync issues).

I cleared the lip sync with the Oppo at 50ms. The Pany s97 also had lip synce delay but fixable with the ms/adjustments. So far looks like I prefer the Oppo.

My H78DC3 is my third projector. Very happy with it since IFS calibrated and color filtered. Linked to a Snazzi 1350 the picture with HD material is superb. I'll try to keep this puppy for at least a year.
Since I have sold my screen last week I still need a replacement for that. I've seen some Firehawk samples and it looked fantastic. So now I try to find an alternative for this rather expensive Stewart material

I just hooked my new H78 up tonight to an Expressvu 9200 receiver. I was projecting an approx 60" image on a toupe wall. All I can say is wow. Even with those much less than stellar conditions you can see the pop that this thing delivers. I'm now just waiting on my screen to really see how this baby performs. It sure is a huge step up from my old Panny 300. Screen will be a 128" 2.35:1 Carada Brilliant white with a Prismasonic H600 lens which just came yesterday.

Only problem is the DVI connection. No matter what I've tried I can't get anything over the HDMI to DVI cable that came with the 9200. Not even sparklies. Zip Nada. I've tried all I can think of. I'll be getting the Pioneer 74 receiver and 59 DVD player so it will be interesting to see if I can get the DVI input to work with these. I'll have to check the 9200 (dish 942) to see if there are any HDMI output issues with these

Only problem is the DVI connection. No matter what I've tried I can't get anything over the HDMI to DVI cable that came with the 9200. Not even sparklies. Zip Nada. I've tried all I can think of. I'll be getting the Pioneer 74 receiver and 59 DVD player so it will be interesting to see if I can get the DVI input to work with these. I'll have to check the 9200 (dish 942) to see if there are any HDMI output issues with these

You are not alone, there are issues at the moment. I am having HDMI problems with my Arcam AVP700 processor, the H78, & my 942. I am able to display HDMI fine with a 59AVi, S97, and the 942. The problem is switching back to the 942. It disappears. I have to do a hard reboot on the 942 (not fun). I'm working with Arcam at the moment to see what the problem is exactly. I'll let you know.

Have you ever had the 942 hooked up directly to the pj? If so were you able to get a picture. Also have you used the supplied cable? Since I have absolutely no signal on various attempts, it makes me wonder if there is a defect somewhere. When I get more equipment, I can hopefully narrow it down.

Have you ever had the 942 hooked up directly to the pj? If so were you able to get a picture. Also have you used the supplied cable? Since I have absolutely no signal on various attempts, it makes me wonder if there is a defect somewhere. When I get more equipment, I can hopefully narrow it down.Happily, I have had my 942 connected via DVI to my H79. I can't say it's a direct connection, though--it's through a D-Tronics 4x1 DVI switcher.

But here's another switcher curiosity: If I turn my Oppo DVD player off while I am watching my 942, the picture suddenly goes black. Powering the Oppo back up while still inputting the 942 results in the picture then coming back.

Gobrigavitch, have you tried all possible ways to connect to the H79 from the 942?

Dan

I was able to go directly to the PJ with my own cable, as the little one that comes with the 942 is about 25' too short :) I have no problem with the direct connect method, only switching through the prepro. I am waiting for UPS to drop me some new HDMI cables any minute. I'll run some tests.

It's been a while since I've posted as I've been enjoying my HT after having planned it for years. Got an H79 and have only done some minor tweaking with Avia, but it's spectacular. Just wish there were some better movies out lately to take advantage.

Right now I've got the H79 hooked to a Gefen HDMI switcher, HDTV via Charter Cable, Panny S97, Denon 3805, 7.1 surround with Def Tech speakers (including a Supercube I), DaLite CV 110", MX-600 URC remote, remote lighting with an X-10 compatible switch, and 8 electric recline Berkline 090s.

I won't plan on upgrading for quite some time. Back row of the Berks are at about 16' from the screen and front row is about 10'. In the front row you can see a little pixelation if you look for it. But the front row is for guests usually, and all they can say when they're over is, "WOW!".

Just finished the tiny alcove lobby last night. Had it painted a rust color and have a small area with a popcorn popper, custom made HT sign, and a Star Wars Episode IV poster.

Craig, the SDI moded Matsushita chipped players do look very clean and clear, like the one you have. The first guy to send me a PJ to tune sent an SDI moded S97. I was amazed at how clear and sharp the Fifth Element looked.

The Fifth Element looks so good it rivals HD almost, in many scenes. I have not found DVI to really be better than component with my system either. The old RP56 keeps putting out a great picture with the SDI mod and the iScan HD! Plus, I have an extra RP56 in storage for when mine dies. The whole combination with the H79 is pretty stunning!!

And to think I learned about and bought all this stuff right here at AVS - thanks Jason, Alan and the gang ( my wife won't thank you for the enormous credit card bills, but they are just about paid off - so what the heck! )!!! :D

Speaking of DVD looking like HD. After UMR finished his calibration of my H78DC3, we spun a few DVD's to get a little taste. The DVD's were Charlotte Gray, SW Episode II, Moulin Rouge, and lastly Sin City. OMG! Sin Sity was the most amazing looking thing I have ever seen on an FP setup. This disk really shows what these PJ's are capable of. My eyes were watering it looked so good. This disk is a MUST OWN.

Happily, I have had my 942 connected via DVI to my H79. I can't say it's a direct connection, though--it's through a D-Tronics 4x1 DVI switcher.

But here's another switcher curiosity: If I turn my Oppo DVD player off while I am watching my 942, the picture suddenly goes black. Powering the Oppo back up while still inputting the 942 results in the picture then coming back.

Gobrigavitch, have you tried all possible ways to connect to the H79 from the 942?

Dan

Good to hear you had it working well. I guess I have a defect somewhere then. I tried using the 6 or 8 foot HDMI to DVI cable supplied with the sat receiver with no luck. I just received a 15 ft HDMI cable and a HDMI to DVI adaptor, so I'll give that a try. If it's still no go then I'll have to wait for my DVD player to narrow down the problem.

I cleared the lip sync with the Oppo at 50ms. The Pany s97 also had lip synce delay but fixable with the ms/adjustments. So far looks like I prefer the Oppo.

Guitarman,
Although I haven't really noticed to much of a problem with lip sync on my Oppo/H77 in the first 100 hours of use last night I watched Erin Brockovich (spelling??) and the lip sync was bad. I went up to 50ms delay and still was not enough. This movie was in a native 16:9 format. Do you think the native format had any influence on this problem? This movie has a lot of talking and close ups of it so it was easy (obvious) to see. Oppo really needs to offer more options like up to maybe 100ms..

I am looking to upgrade my Sony 12HT LCD unit (needs repaired and a new $500 bulb) This would be my 3rd projector, so I plan to keep this unit for about 2 to 3 yrs or until the 1080p units come down to a reasonable price. I looking at a budget of about 3500 to 4k max. Having only experience with LCD projectors I am leaning that way as I am unable to DEMO any quality DLP projectors. However after reading all of the excellent reviews of the H79 and now the new H78DC3 units I am now confused on what way to go. Right now my set up is using my top of the line Sony DVD player component out (cost 1k 2 yrs ago).

I am looking at the Sony HS51 unit with a new iscan HD+ and staying with the currrent Sony DVD player with component out. Cost of abt 3.5k. Or for a grand more do I go with the H78DC3 unit and a new DVD dvi player and new dvi cable with no iscan?

I dont mind going up to $4500 if it will be a lot better picture. Not seeing a DLP projector in person makes it really hard. I have to go on peoples comments in this forum and that means a lot. That is how I ended up purchasing my 1st projector the 10HT 4 yrs ago>

HELP

Put me in the happy H79 camp. I'm glad that football is back on :) Looks stunning. SJ

well, just got my HT chairs from Serge, and the room is almost done...the H78 is an incredible machine - and I am still only showing via component on a very old panny DVD player. 106" image on greywolf and people are just blown away at the image. I tend to show the monsters storming the castle in LOTR:ROTK to show off the PJ - these dark scenes are really impressive.

I still cannot believe I have this thing up and running. I feel blessed to have this system. Really have only two complaints - wish my throw was better (zooming out too much I find takes away some clarity) and that's not Optomas' fault, and the IR is pretty finicky. But these are small quibbles on an incredible machine for the money.

"I feel blessed to have this system"

I've heard that quote from new H79 owners. I remember seeing the Marantz 12s3 next door to my shop $12,000 and thought it was great. The H79 setup is better and for how much? ;)

The Graywolf doesn't like remotes. You're better off aiming in the PJ's direction. Optoma remote likes it slow, fast repeates get you no where.

Guitarman,
Although I haven't really noticed to much of a problem with lip sync on my Oppo/H77 in the first 100 hours of use last night I watched Erin Brockovich (spelling??) and the lip sync was bad. I went up to 50ms delay and still was not enough. This movie was in a native 16:9 format. Do you think the native format had any influence on this problem? This movie has a lot of talking and close ups of it so it was easy (obvious) to see. Oppo really needs to offer more options like up to maybe 100ms..


I haven't seen any movie's yet with lip sync probs. I set the Oppo to 50 and the Pany had to be set to 60ms. I think one tip was to shut the player off and start over.

Newbie here.

Got the H79. $4500 on eBay. Can't imagine a non-warranty repair costing $5500. So why pay $10,000 for it? Screen on it's way. Only a 92" 16:9 Da-Lite though, from Costco online. Probably will return locally for a 106" or so.

Anyone familiar with the Extron DVS-204 scaler? Is this something worthwhile I can use to my advantage with the H79? I see Leeza HD mentioned alot.

Lots to do to get all this done. Mostly wiring to the 3 racks. One upstairs above the front wall for power amps/crossovers. Downstairs for the source/control/rear channel amp racks. Main speakers are hung. Modified JBL L200's with the old Hartsfield folded plate 2'" throat horn/2445 driver combos. Time/phase aligning today. Couple JBL 2245 18" subs. Quad amped syst. Lexicon MC-12B V4.0 EQ processor driving HK Citation II triode modded amps, Acoustat TransNova Twin 200 , Crown DC300's(sub pwr), pair of Altec 1570B 165W triode amps (future) Hafler amps for rear, and sides. Should get things shakin'.

Some really great posts here. Especially from you Guitarman. Great info on PJ's, and stuff. I guess I'll be buying all the alignment tools to get this thing sorted out right.

Thanks!!! ;)

Well, at this point I have narrowed it down to either the H78CD3 or the H79, can you folks point me to some comparisons between these two?

They seem very closely priced, I need to know what the major (value) differences are so I can make an informend decision on which to buy!

Thanks

Speaking of DVD looking like HD. After UMR finished his calibration of my H78DC3, we spun a few DVD's to get a little taste. The DVD's were Charlotte Gray, SW Episode II, Moulin Rouge, and lastly Sin City. OMG! Sin Sity was the most amazing looking thing I have ever seen on an FP setup. This disk really shows what these PJ's are capable of. My eyes were watering it looked so good. This disk is a MUST OWN.

Been preaching this since its release.....check the dvd section.
I won't say it rivals hd because someone would be along shortly to correct me....but it is my new bar setting reference and looked fantastic in the theaters also.

I haven't seen any movie's yet with lip sync probs. I set the Oppo to 50 and the Pany had to be set to 60ms. I think one tip was to shut the player off and start over.With the Oppo 971 if audio synch looks off, hit stop during the movie, then play.

Dan

I just received my H78DC3 Friday and have come across an issue. Should the component inputs handle the output of a progressive scan dvd player just fine? With my projector, 480 interlaced output of the dvd player via component cables works just fine, but whenever I change the DVD output to progressive (480p), the projector loses the image and begins searching for a valid input source. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there something wrong with my unit? I have tried two different progressive scan DVD players and the projector behaves the same in both cases....interlaced output works great, progressive gets no image. Thanks for any help.

How's the H78DC3 with HTPC? Any issues like the H31? A certain wholesale warehouse just listed the H78DC3 for sale, makes it VERY tempting. I currently have a 4805, the black levels and noise are starting to bug me. Arg, so tempting, I'll probably wait until after CEDIA.

stoked,

the H78DC3 (as, I assume, do its H7x brethren) loves HTPCs. It will sync to 48Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz, all you need. And it doesn't framrate-convert either, it actually resyncs the colorwheel and you get perfectly smooth playback from an HTPC. 1:1 pixel mapping is a given and is absolutely trivial to achieve at any refresh rate with or without Powerstrip. Its total HTPC friendliness and multi-refresh capabilities are among the strengths that get mentioned far too little.

stoked,

the H78DC3 (as, I assume, do its H7x brethren) loves HTPCs. It will sync to 48Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz, all you need. And it doesn't framrate-convert either, it actually resyncs the colorwheel and you get perfectly smooth playback from an HTPC. 1:1 pixel mapping is a given and is absolutely trivial to achieve at any refresh rate with or without Powerstrip. It's total HTPC friendliness and multi-refresh capabilities are among the strengths that get mentioned far too little.

Thanks Liersi. That's great to hear. Damn it... even more tempting :( Must... hold... off... until... Cedia...

Thanks Liersi. That's great to hear. Damn it... even more tempting :( Must... hold... off... until... Cedia...

Stoked, why hold off until Cedia? Something else about to be released?

I too have a HTPC that the PJ has to work well with, as you mention tempting!

The "wholesale warehouse" you mention, instore or online only?

Al

Stoked, why hold off until Cedia? Something else about to be released?

I too have a HTPC that the PJ has to work well with, as you mention tempting!

The "wholesale warehouse" you mention, instore or online only?

Al

Online not instore. Holding off until Cedia, see what's coming down the pipe, and see if new stuff may push current unit's prices down.

Wow. I got alot of PM's asking me what warehouse store is selling the H78DC3. I'm canadian, so you guys should try the canadian website of the first wholesale place that comes to mind.

Wow. I got alot of PM's asking me what warehouse store is selling the H78DC3. I'm canadian, so you guys should try the canadian website of the first wholesale place that comes to mind.

Thanks!

BTW, anybody know what this screen is like?

92-in. Panoview Cinema HDTV screen

Too bad that it comes with a screen... :(

Too bad that it comes with a screen... :(


Why is this bad?

I haven't seen any movie's yet with lip sync probs. I set the Oppo to 50 and the Pany had to be set to 60ms. I think one tip was to shut the player off and start over.

Thanks for the feedback... I try a "reboot" next time. This is the only movie that has given me problems so far..

Why is this bad?

Because I already have one :)

How long does it usually take for new products for Cedia to push prices down for existing products? I think I can hold out on the H78DC3 until end of 05.

Only problem is the DVI connection. No matter what I've tried I can't get anything over the HDMI to DVI cable that came with the 9200. Not even sparklies. Zip Nada. I've tried all I can think of. I'll be getting the Pioneer 74 receiver and 59 DVD player so it will be interesting to see if I can get the DVI input to work with these. I'll have to check the 9200 (dish 942) to see if there are any HDMI output issues with these

Just thought I'd update everyone. I received another HDMI cable and HDMI to DVI converter and this worked flawlessly. So it turns out the electronics were working OK, just a bad cable with the sat receiver.

That's good news, it's gets expensive trying out calbes with devices. I got a bunch sitting in the gargade now. Going the short cable route ended all my problems.

Hows HDTV looking?

So far amazing. I knew it would be better than my pt300, but I was still impressed by how much better. That's shooting about a 50" image on a taupe colored wall. I'm in the process of installing the cabling, speakers, screen (50x117" Carada BW), and having a carpenter friend build a new electronics cabinet. All of this in the midst of unpacking from a move and helping get the kids to bed etc, etc. Needless to say it's going a little slower than I would like

Finally have everything in my new HT installed. The first H79 I received was DOA. The good folks at AV Science shipped me a new one right away and it works great. I'm projecting onto a Grayhawk screen and using the DVDO scaler. The PQ is incredible.

My previous HT projector was a Runco CRT (8") which cost more than 4 times as much as the H79. In my opinion, the H79 PQ is superior. Certainly, the image is much sharper. High def programming (like the US Open I'm watching tonight) is just awesome.

Thanks to everyone on this forum for posting their experiences. I spent many hours reading before buying the H79 sight unseen.

Cheers,
Mark

update. My wife bought one of those dollar DVDs and wanted to see it on the big screen with the H78. I'm thinking - oh oh. one of the cheap public domain B&W films from the 40's poorly mastered blown up to 106"? ugh. but surprisingly the picture was quite watchable. The video processing in the H78 must be better than I thought.

Still can't believe we showed a $1 DVD on this system.. But the movie was enjoyable. Hey - maybe I should how my old VHS tapes show (lol).

The pixelworks scaler and 3Dpro chip do an excellent job. Just run some tests with and interlaced signal and you'll see. End of Gladiator Chap 12 I think, called The Greatness of Rome, forward panning over city roof tops. Also Star Strek Insurrection the opening sequence panning across city rooftops. Very good at smoothing out jags and keeping crisp.

Well, at this point I have narrowed it down to either the H78CD3 or the H79, can you folks point me to some comparisons between these two?

They seem very closely priced, I need to know what the major (value) differences are so I can make an informend decision on which to buy!

Thanks

Curious as well - now that enough people have had a chance to use both, what are the significant "value" difference between the two?

It looks like they street for about a $2k from each other. Do they both have the 8 segment color wheel?

Would much rather spend the $2k on a scaler / switcher. :)

UMR, Guitarman, PatrickTX

Comments???

I never saw an H78, some testers came up with lower lumens and CR readings but the verdicts still not out. But if the difference is $2,000 I'd get the H78.

I'm trying to decide between the H78 and H79 as well.

Based on the quotes that I've gotten, the difference is not as much as $2K. However, the difference is enough to make me buy the H78 if there is very little difference in image quality from the H79.

The other issue that I'm struggling with is that I would prefer to buy from the AVS guys here, but they aren't selling the H78.

I think the $2k can be spent on other things that are likely to improve the home theater experience more than the H79.

I'm trying to decide between the H78 and H79 as well.

Based on the quotes that I've gotten, the difference is not as much as $2K. However, the difference is enough to make me buy the H78 if there is very little difference in image quality from the H79.

The other issue that I'm struggling with is that I would prefer to buy from the AVS guys here, but they aren't selling the H78.

So buy the H-78 from an AVS sponsor like I did....after all... the only difference is hand picked parts ;)

Nice!

Thanks guys - this confirms my suspicions.

I received my H78dc3 last Saturday. Hi def programming looks great. I am disappointed because I have to return the unit after 5 days of use. Except for the DVI input, all of the others display green only. The component inputs worked when I first tried then failed sometime later. The rep at Optima said that this is the first that he has heard of this problem.

Bob

I received my H78dc3 last Saturday. Hi def programming looks great. I am disappointed because I have to return the unit after 5 days of use. Except for the DVI input, all of the others display green only. The component inputs worked when I first tried then failed sometime later. The rep at Optima said that this is the first that he has heard of this problem.

Bob

Sounds like a cable problem.

I cleared the lip sync with the Oppo at 50ms. The Pany s97 also had lip synce delay but fixable with the ms/adjustments. So far looks like I prefer the Oppo.

SORRY IN ADVANCE FOR THE NEWBIE QUESTION, BUT WHAT IS THE MS/ADJUSTMENT, AND HOW IS IT DONE. i CURRENTLY HAVE A SAMSUNG DVD PLAYER, PLANNING TO UPGRADE TO THE OPPO FOR MY H79, AND I HAVE THE LIP SYNC ISSUE AS WELL.
PS sorry for the all caps, i just caught it

My H78DC3 is my third projector. Very happy with it since IFS calibrated and color filtered. Linked to a Snazzi 1350 the picture with HD material is superb. I'll try to keep this puppy for at least a year.
Since I have sold my screen last week I still need a replacement for that. I've seen some Firehawk samples and it looked fantastic. So now I try to find an alternative for this rather expensive Stewart material

i read a review that compared the firehawk to the carada grey screen, the review favored the carada, price to your door around 800 for the 3.5 inch frame with a 106 diagonal

Finally have everything in my new HT installed. The first H79 I received was DOA. The good folks at AV Science shipped me a new one right away and it works great. I'm projecting onto a Grayhawk screen and using the DVDO scaler. The PQ is incredible.

My previous HT projector was a Runco CRT (8") which cost more than 4 times as much as the H79. In my opinion, the H79 PQ is superior. Certainly, the image is much sharper. High def programming (like the US Open I'm watching tonight) is just awesome.

Thanks to everyone on this forum for posting their experiences. I spent many hours reading before buying the H79 sight unseen.

Cheers,
Mark

does the dvdo help the pq on standard def tv

DVDO and SD, that's one of the key benefits. I find TV as is good enough for the amount I watch it. World series of Poker mainly.


The Oppo and Pany have ms/adjustments in the menu's. Actually lately I'm swaying more toward the Pany. ;)

Can anyone here with a H79 and Silverstar screen share what you're settings are? (BTW, the pq on the Silverstar is frickin awesome!---it looks like a gigantic plasma screen!) :D

Got my input problem resolved before I returned the Projector.

I had to go into the system menu and set color space to either yuv or auto and the problem cleared. It had been set to rgb.

This setting does not effect the dvi input. I am surprized Optoma service did not have me try this.

Out of the box this thing looks great to me - what can I expect after calabration ?

Better color balance, all your movies will look excellent.

Colorspace s/b set to auto.

The tech support person at Optima told me that they ran a blind a b test and no one there could see the difference. He told me you get an extra year maintenance on the 79, but for $295 you can buy an additional 2 years for a total of 4.

The difference right now is about 1K. I what the $700 difference really buys you is a status symbol and some hand picked parts ?

i read a review that compared the firehawk to the carada grey screen, the review favored the carada, price to your door around 800 for the 3.5 inch frame with a 106 diagonal

I guess you mean the review on Audioholics? It only favoured the Carada because of the price... Besides, I live in Holland and shipping alone would be very expensive.

Next week I will receive a new screen of a Belgium based company to test-drive. The screenmaterial should closely resemble the Firehawk :cool:

The tech support person at Optima told me that they ran a blind a b test and no one there could see the difference. He told me you get an extra year maintenance on the 79, but for $295 you can buy an additional 2 years for a total of 4.

The difference right now is about 1K. I what the $700 difference really buys you is a status symbol and some hand picked parts ?

You know Wing (Engineering Mgr) told me it's a gamble with the H78. That maybe you could get lucky and get items in a particular H78 that help it so much it would be right up there with the H79. It would be on a machine to machine basis. No gurarantees

The H79 is guaranteed to be optimized.

Mabe I should have bought the 79 but there are no dealers where I live. I am very satisfied with the hi def. After correcting the input problem I tried some DVD on my old sony 480P dvd player. I realize that the Hi Def signal has more resolution but I still thought that the dvd would look better that it does. Do I need an upscaling DVD player or do I wait for Hi Def DVD. My Motorola DVR can so much and comcast will not give me another because of the current demand. What I really would like is to hand a couple of terabytes of storage off of the dvr and just use that box for everything.

You know Wing (Engineering Mgr) told me it's a gamble with the H78. That maybe you could get lucky and get items in a particular H78 that help it so much it would be right up there with the H79. It would be on a machine to machine basis. No gurarantees

The H79 is guaranteed to be optimized.

Tom, I don't dispute you statement above, when compared side-by-side I'm sure that the differences would be appearent.

However in reality, what about when you see a H79 then say 2 weeks later a H78 (both set up correctly), would the differences be so obvious then (especially considering the delta in cost)?

Sure I would like a H79, but what I would really like is a H80/1 and if I had a crystal ball to know how long before their price drops to what I can buy the H78 for now, I would wait.

But for me it is a stretch just to get a H78 at MSRP, so unless your crystal ball is plugged into Optoma and can suggest how long the wait will be, the H78 looks pretty sweet!

Maybe someday we'll really know if there's a big difference, better measurements are needed. We can't go by PC and Mike didn't hv optimum conditions when he measured 350lumens.

Probably be 5 or 6 months before 1080p machines are out.

Maybe someday we'll really know if there's a big difference, better measurements are needed. We can't go by PC and Mike didn't hv optimum conditions when he measured 350lumens.

Probably be 5 or 6 months before 1080p machines are out.

With respect the 1080p: But how long before they reach a price level like the H78DC3, possibly years? I could wait 5 or 6 months, maybe even until this time next year, but I would really like to move from 848x480 to true HD resolutions.

You know Wing (Engineering Mgr) told me it's a gamble with the H78. That maybe you could get lucky and get items in a particular H78 that help it so much it would be right up there with the H79. It would be on a machine to machine basis. No gurarantees

The H79 is guaranteed to be optimized.

I guess most ...if not all H-78DC3 owners are winning on this deal...if people at Optoma can't see the diference...I doubt there is one :D

[QUOTE=Al Sherwood]Tom, I don't dispute you statement above, when compared side-by-side I'm sure that the differences would be appearent.

However in reality, what about when you see a H79 then say 2 weeks later a H78 (both set up correctly), would the differences be so obvious then (especially considering the delta in cost)?

Sure I would like a H79, but what I would really like is a H80/1 and if I had a crystal ball to know how long before their price drops to what I can buy the H78 for now, I would wait.

But for me it is a stretch just to get a H78 at MSRP, so unless your crystal ball is plugged into Optoma and can suggest how long the wait will be, the H78 looks pretty sweet![/QUOTE

i talked to a rep at optoma, and he said they would announce 1080p unit in january, for spring release. (this is optoma were talking about though)

We were asking but I don't think they'll be any changes in the PJ operation. You'll hv to tune DVI to video levels.

[QUOTE=Al Sherwood]Tom, I don't dispute you statement above, when compared side-by-side I'm sure that the differences would be appearent.

However in reality, what about when you see a H79 then say 2 weeks later a H78 (both set up correctly), would the differences be so obvious then (especially considering the delta in cost)?

Sure I would like a H79, but what I would really like is a H80/1 and if I had a crystal ball to know how long before their price drops to what I can buy the H78 for now, I would wait.

But for me it is a stretch just to get a H78 at MSRP, so unless your crystal ball is plugged into Optoma and can suggest how long the wait will be, the H78 looks pretty sweet![/QUOTE

i talked to a rep at optoma, and he said they would announce 1080p unit in january, for spring release. (this is optoma were talking about though)


Thanks for the info! Wow, that's no too far off! I hate waiting, but maybe it is the best thing to do... limp along with EDTV resolution. :o

I am in the process of finishing my basement and will have a dedicate ht room. I am very interested in the opoma h79, but am confused about screens. There are an awful lot of types available and I do not understand the difference. My space will be light controlled, but willl have some ambient light issues at times. Also, what are size guidelines? Viewing distance 1.5 of screen width? How about screen height off floor? I plan to install entire system myself.

I am in the process of finishing my basement and will have a dedicate ht room. I am very interested in the opoma h79, but am confused about screens. There are an awful lot of types available and I do not understand the difference. My space will be light controlled, but willl have some ambient light issues at times. Also, what are size guidelines? Viewing distance 1.5 of screen width? How about screen height off floor? I plan to install entire system myself. If you want the very best out of it, for your specs I recommend:
1) Steward Firehawk, PJ ceiling mounted.
2) Yes, 1.5 the distance
3) Line it up so your eyes hit the bottom third of the screen. i.e. (easy numbers, not realistic used: ) for a 3' high screen, and a seated eye height of 4', set screen botton at 3' from floor. Tweak to taste. Conside the angle of your eyes in your most comfortable viewing conditions. Also keep in mind PJ height must match top of screen. I have a 110" screen about 2' off the floor.

I've decided to purchase the Optoma H78DC3, after much reading and research here, but really sight unseen. I have DTV and will be getting a HD receiver when local HD becomes available. I was also thinking about purchasing an iScan HD+ with the SDI module. I know in SD and DVD it should be a marked improvement, but what type of improvement should I expect in HD? Is it worth spending the money for a outboard processor or is the processor in the H78 good enough?

Regards,
Mark

Mark, I have done a lot of reading on this unit as well and the on board processor has always received great reviews.

Also if you feed it HD at 1280x720 the need for an iScan becomes negligable , i.e. you shouldn't need to spend the money on it.

If I decide against the iScan, I would want to upgrade my DVD player (Toshiba 3800, 480p) to one that upscales to 720p. Any recommendations for a player that produces an excellent picture quality. Also, is there a DVD player that has excellent video with the capabilities of SACD or DVD-A ?

Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Mark

The best upscaling DVD player IMO is the Denon 3910. Very nice player. Only one better is the next stap up Denon (5910). Google Secrets DVD Benchmark and see the tests for yourself. I had one, it was very, very nice.

I've decided to purchase the Optoma H78DC3, after much reading and research here, but really sight unseen. I have DTV and will be getting a HD receiver when local HD becomes available. I was also thinking about purchasing an iScan HD+ with the SDI module. I know in SD and DVD it should be a marked improvement, but what type of improvement should I expect in HD? Is it worth spending the money for a outboard processor or is the processor in the H78 good enough?
Regards,
Mark

I have an H78DC3, and am passing on the scaler for now. With the advent of 720P sources, and HDMI - DVI switching processors & AVR's I felt it wasn't critical. ALL my sources are 720 at the moment, and the scalers I like cost almost as much as the PJ! I have a Pioneer Elite 59AVI that I'm using, as well as a Panasonic DVD-S97. The Pioneer is an excellent player for the H78, no macroblocking. The Faroudja chip in the Panasonic & Denon models is defective, and in my case, unwatchable nearly.

I have an H78DC3, and am passing on the scaler for now. With the advent of 720P sources, and HDMI - DVI switching processors & AVR's I felt it wasn't critical. ALL my sources are 720 at the moment, and the scalers I like cost almost as much as the PJ! I have a Pioneer Elite 59AVI that I'm using, as well as a Panasonic DVD-S97. The Pioneer is an excellent player for the H78, no macroblocking. The Faroudja chip in the Panasonic & Denon models is defective, and in my case, unwatchable nearly.
As far as critical, no, but hardly any of my sources are 720p. If you mean your devices are doing the scaling for you that's isn't quite the same thing. That is, one must consider who's doing the scaling. I mean my Comcast STB will output 720p if I tell it to, but it's upscaling (or downscaling for that mater) frankly sucks compared to my Lumagen HDP processing. The Optoma's internal scaler is better than many sources internal scaler.

The upscaled DVI out of the 3910 was fine for me. The only people I rember seeing it were using odd resolution plasmas and I'm not sure the combination of display processing wasn't the cause. From the gazillion-post 3910 thread I monitored for months it was evident that it was display dependent for the few who said they saw any. I never saw any macroblocking on the H79.

I looked at the Pioneer too, but it failed too many other benchmark tests IIRC. One nice thing about the Pioneer I do remember though it it wil do 480i out it's HDMI port so if you added a scaler in the future, you could take advantage of that.

I agree that most STB have god awful scalers. I'm using a Dish 942, and it seems to be pretty decent compared to the 811's I have. I'm wondering how a 3910 would look in my setup, but the S97 has me running scared for MB. I had a launch 3910, & it was a mess. Maybe I need to give it another shot. The 3910 is easily regionfree hacked as well. I could sell my 59AVI, S97 (regionfree), and DVD-2900 (regionfree) if it didn't MB. Maybe I'll swing by Magnolia & pick one up.

Or just SDI your 2900 and take the savings to get a HDP :). I didn't need the extensive audio capabilities of the 3910 so I did just that, replaced it with a SDI'd 2900 and put the savings toward a HDP. But I have to say, that was the hardest soldering job I ever did. Tiny, tiny, tiny. Phew, it works though :)

If I decide against the iScan, I would want to upgrade my DVD player (Toshiba 3800, 480p) to one that upscales to 720p. Any recommendations for a player that produces an excellent picture quality. Also, is there a DVD player that has excellent video with the capabilities of SACD or DVD-A ?

Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Mark

The best upscaling dvd player is the Denon 5910....With the Onkyo SP1000 being the second best at video and even better than the 5910 or many universals up to 6k for audio.

I do not reccomend the 3910 as it has a cheap build,cheap remote.....and Denon has by far the most QC problems of the better dvd based players.

I compared the 3910,5900 and Onkyo SP1000 for a month and have owned two 5900's and two 3910's...and only one did not have many QC issues and that was the second 5900.....which had MB pretty badly.

Forget using Secrets ratings as I own a Panasonic s-97 and its picture quality is probably 15-30% worse than the SP1000 overall...and it is painfully obvious that your better off with actual pro direct comparisons were every single comparison picks the SP1000 over the 3910 and all other players except the 5910.

What you should do is get a couple of top rated players and compare for yourself under calibrated conditions.

The only picture I have seen in my home thats better than the SP 1000, is d-vhs which pretty much died as a format. and is/was superior to all current dvd players for picture quality.

You will not see much if any difference between an I scan and the SP1000.

Or just SDI your 2900 and take the savings to get a HDP :). I didn't need the extensive audio capabilities of the 3910 so I did just that, replaced it with a SDI'd 2900 and put the savings toward a HDP. But I have to say, that was the hardest soldering job I ever did. Tiny, tiny, tiny. Phew, it works though :)
First let me say, I appreciate all the responses to my question.

In regards to an SDI card how much improvement could I expect from doing this mod. I may fore go the SACD, DVD-A capabilities in place of a the SDI card, depending on the $$$. Where would you recommend I purchase the card once I get my DVD player of choice. I want to make sure that they make a card for whatever player I decide to purchase.

Thanks for all the help,
Mark

Sorry, for all the questions but you guys have all the experience and knowledge that I would like to pick your brains.

I believe guitarman uses a Da-Lite High Power screen last time I read one of his post. I've been recommended to use a Da-Lite high contrast white which has a 1.1 gain. I wanted your input as to which screen you thought matches up best with the H78. I do have some ambient light, so most of my viewing will be at night, during the day I have a 57" HD, WS, rear projector Hitachi Ultravision to use.

Again, many thanks,
Mark

Google for Pixelmagic SDI card. That's about the ony place to get one nowadays IFAIK. YOu can get it from Digital Connection, $150. The Denon 2900 is what I came to after a great deal of research. It has a trouble/issue free MPEG decoder, and has the fastest transport I've ever owned. Built solid. And pictues of the SDI mod are available so you know where to solder. There are some other good choices but they mayhave hardware issues (RP-91 RP-82, Denon 1600 IIRC possible spindle problems).

As for improvement, I've very happy with the HDP and the SDI and it will be my DVD player from now on. I'll add something for HD-DVD whenever whoever wins that battle. BUT, I don't see a huge improvement over my Denon 3910 via DVI, but I bet the difference is there. Depends on how picky you are I suppose. The scaler solution has some other benefits, search for my userid and HDP to see my comments on same.

Sorry, for all the questions but you guys have all the experience and knowledge that I would like to pick your brains.

I believe guitarman uses a Da-Lite High Power screen last time I read one of his post. I've been recommended to use a Da-Lite high contrast white which has a 1.1 gain. I wanted your input as to which screen you thought matches up best with the H78. I do have some ambient light, so most of my viewing will be at night, during the day I have a 57" HD, WS, rear projector Hitachi Ultravision to use.

Again, many thanks,
Mark
I use a 110" Firehawk. Bought specifically for a H77, now H79.

Dalite Cinema Vision is good also, a little extra gain 1.3.

I've been using the Optoma Graywolf lately. But this is a budget screen really not up to the class of the projector. I got it free though and it works better than the High Power which sits behind it.

Firehawk is more worthy with this projector. :)

Just got off the phone with Greg Rodgers, I didn't know he was at Accupel. He picked up as Greg but not until I gave him my email Tomcigar did I know he was our friend Greg. He says tomcigar you're guitarman as AVS. Small world, good talking to him and I can't wait the run the Accupel though it's paces.

All you ISF'ers, now go pick up your Accupel from Greg direct. :)

Tom, Greg ONLY sells direct :).

True, he read I wanted one but figured I found a used one. But I've never seen one for sale at all. Must be nice

I've seen 2 on ebay. In like 18 months. Both went for top dollar. Actually, for what they sold for, I'd have bought a new one with warranty instead. Greg had a CEDIA sale last year, looks like no-go on the sale this year. I had Jeff Murray with Sencore show my their signal generator at CEDIA. It was nice and it can do HD RF out (so you can use it as an input to your Comcast HD STB in lieu of Comcast signal enabling it to be properly calibrated, too. Came with a full cable set to do about anything. FWIW, Cliff Plavin of Progressive Labs seemed to feel the Sencore's (at leat the previous ones) are more buggy and Gregs is not. I'm sure anyone woudl be happy with Gregs, or the Seocore, I know I would. Maybe I should start a Mid-South service to rationalize it. Naaa. All my hobbies turn into jobs, I'm trying to fend this one [hobby] off :D. Unless someone asks :)

Glad to see so many happy campers here. I'll soon be joining you with a 78 or 79 when I confirm, or not, brightness/CR differences between the two...anyone know for sure?

This is my first FP and I've managed to confuse myself regarding screen material. Here's the setup:
*Tensioned electric...Dalite seems to be the best overall value???
*Primary viewing area is fairly narrow...sofa width at 13'.
*Suspended-mount PJ just over 13' from a 106" or 110" diag screen
*PJ will likely run in econo mode for minimum noise (PJ directly overhead).
*Night viewing of DVD's and HDTV with little/no ambient light other than the PJ. Daytime sports would be nice but not absolutely necessary...bright mode okay during the day.
*White walls and ceiling but the room is very large with no side walls or ceiling near the screen.

I'm thinking Hi Contrast Matte White (angular reflective, correct?) but I'm also thinking gain might be a little low after calibration, bulb aging, etc.

So, whaddya think? All suggestions sincerely appreciated!
Paul

"Glad to see so many happy campers here. I'll soon be joining you with a 78 or 79 when I confirm, or not, brightness/CR differences between the two...anyone know for sure?"

This is the mystery or the year. Someday I'll get a hold of one, maybe next week. :)

"Maybe I should start a Mid-South service to rationalize it. Naaa. All my hobbies turn into jobs, I'm trying to fend this one [hobby] off . Unless someone asks"

I know what you mean, It's an expensive tune up item. The reason I can validate it is the 60 guys lined up for the upgrade and tune-up. How else could I be so accurate and with HDTV. I had to buy it.

Guitarman,

Based on your glowing reviews of the NEC-HT1000 when it came out a couple of years ago, I purchased one and have been very happy with it, except for some perceived softness while watching HD. You've now about got me convinced to get a H78/79.

Having spent some time with both the HT-1000 and the H79, can I expect a significantly sharper picture with H79 that I get with the HT-1000, even with an anamorphic lens? I tried to watch some NFL football last Sunday (Bears suck--again) and though it looked OK on the NEC, it didn't have the dazzling sharpness I've come to expect from HD, which I usually watch on a 50" DLP RP.

Thanks.

Mike,

I can answer the HT1000 question, as I've owned it and now own the H77. HD is MUCH better!! I don't know if sharper is a word I would use, but clearer. It was well worth the $$ and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Scott

Re H79 and HT1000, I'm watching the HT1000 right now :), but the biggest difference you'll notice is the high intensity white to black level or interfield contrast (intense 3D). On top of that is finely detailed HDTV. You'll be very surprised how different that football game will look on the H79/H78. It's worth it alright.

Darn you guys, but thanks. I didn't need much more convincing and I think you've done it.

Darn you guys, but thanks. I didn't need much more convincing and I think you've done it.

I think that Mike is right I'm convinced (H78DC3), but I have a question, we talk about MSRP and MAP, and to me they look the same, as in their goal to set a price.

With regards to the Optoma PJ's, has this always been the practice, with that I mean from what I can find they are all pretty much priced the same online, i.e. no real significant differences in price.

From Canadian sources, I have only seen a $3 variance!

Does Optoma set the price that these can be sold for?

Map is set to keep online advertising in line. If a dealer advertises a lower amount he could have his account canceled. The prices aren't fixed. All dealers want your business so you should contact a dealer make an offer or find out their best deal.

You could email or call Dave Harper at AVS, he could get you a deal. Pretty sure AVS will ship out of the country.

I just exchanged e-mail with Jason here at AVS. He's working hard to get some H78DC3's for AVS to sell and is optimistic about getting this done. Since I get so much benefit from this board they sponsor, I think I'll hold off just a bit to see if AVS can get the H78DC3's. Based on past experiences, I'd guess their price will at least meet the going rate, and may beat it. Superb service as well.

I'm the happy new owner of an Optoma H79. I actually got it from Jason his price was better than anything else out there. I ordered it on Monday and got it two days later. I'd definatly recomend you talk Jason about he H78 if thats what you want.

I set the whole thing up last night which required alot of moving of equipment and rewireing my room last night and it tossed up a very nice picture with only eyeball calibration. The deinterlacer was much better than I had hoped for on SDTV, you can ofcourse see the limiations in that it's SDTV but the picture was still much better than I was perpared for. Now I just need to get my DVE disc back from my friend tonight to tune it in a bit more and then I'll probably get it calibrated professionally after it's celing mounted (it's table mounted now)

My wife is very happy with the brightness of this project as she likes to have the lights on sometimes. And my two year old daughter thought a Dora The Explorer that was biger than she was was just the best last night.

I'm the happy new owner of an Optoma H79. I actually got it from Jason his price was better than anything else out there. I ordered it on Monday and got it two days later. I'd definatly recomend you talk Jason about he H78 if thats what you want...

Yes, let us know if you have any questions about any of the Optoma units. We are here to help in any way we can. Don't hesitate to contact Jason or myself if you need to.

H78DC3 arrived today. This is my first projector so I'm probably easily pleased, but just the same... WOW. For an 800 lumen projector there's way more light than I expected (new bulb obviously, but just the same...) The picture quality is amazing even though all I'm using for a screen for now is a chunk of blackout cloth.

Which leads to my question... I still don't really know what sort of screen to go for. Given how well the BO cloth works I think a white screen is looking more likely (it's a light controlled room). On the other hand a grey screen might knock out the little bit of light leakage I see. (When I hit "hide" there's still a dim illumination over the while screen area - is this normal? It isn't noticeable in normal use.)

So for those of you with light controlled rooms, what screen are you using?

I personally love the H79 on my Stewart StudioTek 130. I also have a light controlled environment and the blacks and CR of the H79 are more than enough to use a white screen.

Yes, the slight light emmission is normal. You can't turn the bulb off completely, only redirect the light away from the lens, so some leaks out unfortunately:( They have gotten MUCH better in the last few generations though.

High end screens the Firehawk or Studio Tech. Low end Carada or Dalite - anything white with a little gain. Not up on Carada but the Dalite CV 1.3 is popular.

My room is not totally light controlled and I am using a Dalite CV. I find the picture spectacular but it might be even better on a grey screen. I also have light walls and ceiling which don't help either.

Map is set to keep online advertising in line. If a dealer advertises a lower amount he could have his account canceled. The prices aren't fixed. All dealers want your business so you should contact a dealer make an offer or find out their best deal.

You could email or call Dave Harper at AVS, he could get you a deal. Pretty sure AVS will ship out of the country.

Interesting, I'll check with AVS but I think that I will find that bringing the unit across the border will add a significant uplift for duties and customs brokerage fees.

When I called the Canadian dealers, their prices were pretty much as advertised so I guess that business is so good for them that "deals" are not necessary!

So if I disregard the above fees and only look at the currancy exchange, based on MSRP: $3999 USD + 25% = $4999 CDN, and that is what they are asking here. :(

Maybe the problem is the PJ is too recent to market and too popular? :)

For curiosity and very low dollar outlay you could try an Optoma Graywolf screen. Wierd for me but I have a $1,000 dollar electric high power screen behind the Graywolf and prefer the chump change Graywolf. The ambient light rejection is excellent and hard to give up. Plus ceiling mounted the screen light level is closer to reference 12fl.

Al,

As Tom said, give me a shout and we'll answer any questions you may have. Maybe you'll benefit from the conversation;)!!!

Interesting, I'll check with AVS but I think that I will find that bringing the unit across the border will add a significant uplift for duties and customs brokerage fees.

When I called the Canadian dealers, their prices were pretty much as advertised so I guess that business is so good for them that "deals" are not necessary!

So if I disregard the above fees and only look at the currancy exchange, based on MSRP: $3999 USD + 25% = $4999 CDN, and that is what they are asking here. :(

Maybe the problem is the PJ is too recent to market and too popular? :)

If the projector is declared as a computer projector which is is. No duties are charged. You will pay the 14.5% we would normally pay in BC anyhow. The warranty is another issue, you would likely have to send the projector to the US for warranty.

If the projector is declared as a computer projector which is is. No duties are charged. You will pay the 14.5% we would normally pay in BC anyhow. The warranty is another issue, you would likely have to send the projector to the US for warranty.

Bummer, I got burnt on the Infocus I bought a few years back then, I had to pay duty on that one and it was used! $3k US converted to CDN and I ended up paying nearly $700 duty! I wonder if I can get that back from Revenue Canada?

Even without duty the warranty and returns issues would be a concern... Can anyone confirm that a US bought Optoma is not covered in Canada? Has anyone already talked to Optoma Canada.

Depending on the above warranty question, I may call Dave (AVS) and see what they can offer.

Al:If you go Cdn and I am assuming outside of bc you will save the 7% pst. As for duty as long as the projector handles computer generated digital images you should be able to avoid it - the worst possibllity is 6%. I dont know about the infocus but $700 sounds wrong unless you are including gst and pst in that amount.

Al:If you go Cdn and I am assuming outside of bc you will save the 7% pst. As for duty as long as the projector handles computer generated digital images you should be able to avoid it - the worst possibllity is 6%. I dont know about the infocus but $700 sounds wrong unless you are including gst and pst in that amount.

You are right, from outside BC (but in Canada) you save 7% PST, as for the total I gave, I'll confirm this when I get home, but it was brutal!

And yes, the PJ I bought handles computer generated images, it's connected to my HTPC!

First, let met state that I'm a newbie when it come to pj. I've had 4 rear projector, the current one being a 57" HD WS Hitachi Ultravision. I have my first pj (H78) arriving Tuesday.

1. What would be the recommended setup for HD DTV and DVD running to both the H78 and the Hitachi. That's my first questions.

2. I've read where the processor in the H78 is very good but yet everyone seems to opt for an upconverting DVD player and even some go further by adding a SDI card with an outboard processor. If I were to do this in steps, in order of importance how would you rate each component?

3. A few things that I'm confused about. A. Why would you get an upconverting DVD player and add an outboard processor, isn't that overkill? I was going add a processor to my 480P DVD player. B. If you are going to add an SDI card wouldn't it be good enough to add it to a 480P, rather than to a 720P DVD player?

I can go in any direction, but I would like to get the best value for the $$$.

Thanks in advance,
Best Regards,
Mark

You are right, from outside BC (but in Canada) you save 7% PST, as for the total I gave, I'll confirm this when I get home, but it was brutal!

And yes, the PJ I bought handles computer generated images, it's connected to my HTPC!

Did you get it shipped directly to your door from the US? You were likely charged 6% duties (should have declared as computer projector or LCD projector), AND brokerage fees from UPS or whatever shipping company. Those brokerage fees are a friggin ripoff. They'll charge you 100+ for large items just for showing customs the filled out declaration for you. You can actually request pickup from the depot and request that you handle declaration yourself. I don't know the details but I do know you CAN do it.

My setup is simple. I use DVI for DVD with an upscaling player. HDTV/SD & JVC DVHS recorder switch thru the amp and go to the PJ via component cables.

For my Tosh 57hx93 in the same room I run the STB/DVI out and an analog DVD player

If you get an Iscan HD+ with SDI mod you can run everything to the Iscan and have one DVI out to the PJ.

I saw an SDI'ed player/Iscan and it was as good as it gets. At a price though.

Did you get it shipped directly to your door from the US? You were likely charged 6% duties (should have declared as computer projector or LCD projector), AND brokerage fees from UPS or whatever shipping company. Those brokerage fees are a friggin ripoff. They'll charge you 100+ for large items just for showing customs the filled out declaration for you. You can actually request pickup from the depot and request that you handle declaration yourself. I don't know the details but I do know you CAN do it.


OK here we go, this is what I cost me to bring in a Cinema 12SF in August of 2002:

PJ: $3120 USD converts to CDN $4995 (very poor exchange rates at the time)

GST: $323
PST: $346
Duty: $0

Total: $5664

So I was wrong, no duty paid, and because of the 'expedited" shipping, no brokerage fees either.

Funny thing, this will pretty much be the total cost (based on MAP) for the H78DC3...

My setup is simple. I use DVI for DVD with an upscaling player. HDTV/SD & JVC DVHS recorder switch thru the amp and go to the PJ via component cables.

For my Tosh 57hx93 in the same room I run the STB/DVI out and an analog DVD player

If you get an Iscan HD+ with SDI mod you can run everything to the Iscan and have one DVI out to the PJ.

I saw an SDI'ed player/Iscan and it was as good as it gets. At a price though.
Guitarman, I am in the process of buiding my first HT. After all the positive reviews I have read I have decieded to purchace the H79 PJ from AVS. I am considering added an Iscan VP30 with the the SDI mod. If I go this route can I use HDMI out to the PJ or is it better to use DVI out to the PJ. I know that the H79 has a DVI connection but I am confussed about which cable is the better choice. Thanks for your valued input :)

If it was me I would run an HDMI cable and use the adapter provided with the H79. This way you have a smaller cable to run, a newer technology ready to go and if in the future you upgrade projectors then you are ready with HDMI. Signal wise it will be identical.

The new iScan should be a hit, give me a call or email if you have any further questions about it.

Hi!
Just last week i ordered the H79, now that it´s made available for us europeans also! I should get the projector at friday (got that day free from job also:)), i can´t wait...But i´m prepared mentally for some delays and waiting, there´s almost always something. Street price is at 3600-3800euros for H79 where i live.
Just wanted to ask your opinion: My screen is light gray, gain is at something like 0.8. Aspect 16:9, 88" diagonal . Is this gonna look too bright in light controlled room, dark walls and everything. Should i use some ND filter or Hoya FL-Day.
I like it quite dim and for example keep my HC900:s iris fully stepped down for good blacks and easy viewing, FL-Day filter and lamp at low.
I´ve been reading this forum with great interest from start of this year, especially H77/79 threads!
My 10th year of HT hobby, this H79 is nice way to celebrate it.

The H79 with the gray at .08 will be great. I'm at the same level setup now and It's just perfect for me in HT levels of pop and brightness.

I've got a 130" diag. screen, with aprox 0.8 gain which i currently use with my Sony HS-20. I find the current setup quite nice in regards to lumens, but how would the Optoma H79 work in my cinema? Opinions?

I would like some guidance on what screen material to use. I just purchased a H78 and have been looking at a DaLite Model C with CSR, screen size of 54"x96". I've decided on this model because it fits my budget and it seems to be of good quality for the price. It's going to be ceiling mounted in front of my entertainment center. I had decided on the high contrast matte white (1.1 gain) until I talk to a representative from Dalite and he asked if I had considered the Video Spectra (1.5 gain) material. I have some ambient light during the day but 80% of my viewing will be during the evenings. He even mentioned the matte white material because the H78 has a very high contrast ratio.

I would appreciate any feedback as to which screen material would be the best match for the H78. If there are other screens that I should consider, I would appreciate any recommendations.

Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Mark

Mark,

Contact me and we can discuss some different options for you.

Lost last night Kicked butt in HD on this thing. My wife sat there with her mouth open. That was on a 126" diag picture. There was some scenes that were really dark and had torches flickering I swear if I moved my eyes left and right I saw rainbows but my wife didn't. Watched 30 hrs and this was the first. I suppose this is the rainbow effect? Didn't really bother me though.


John

Yeah, a one chip DLP is great when you're watching The Wizard of Oz;)!!! Dorothy's constantly going over the rainbow:D!!!

They don't really bother me either if it means anything.

I would like some guidance on what screen material to use. I just purchased a H78 and have been looking at a DaLite Model C with CSR, screen size of 54"x96". I've decided on this model because it fits my budget and it seems to be of good quality for the price. It's going to be ceiling mounted in front of my entertainment center. I had decided on the high contrast matte white (1.1 gain) until I talk to a representative from Dalite and he asked if I had considered the Video Spectra (1.5 gain) material. I have some ambient light during the day but 80% of my viewing will be during the evenings. He even mentioned the matte white material because the H78 has a very high contrast ratio.

I would appreciate any feedback as to which screen material would be the best match for the H78. If there are other screens that I should consider, I would appreciate any recommendations.

Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Mark

Mark, sadly when you pick a non-tensioned screen you have to be careful on the material pick. The only two materials I'd recommend for non-tensioned is High Power of Mat White. These won't show waves too easily with video. The two you mentioned will.

just wanted to say how useful the power zoom on the H78 has been for me. Surprised at how much I use it. for DVDS that show 100% of the 1:85 screen I zoom it out a little. for 2:35 I zoom it in all the way on the screen. Old B&W films somewhere in between.

I really can't imagine me not having this feature now!

Hi, I just received the H78DC3, setup it, it has been running for an hour or so. Very nice clear sharp picture. I tried the Panasonic AE700 and the Sony HS50, what a difference. BUt ... I see lot of pixalization on fast moving scenes? I though this only existed on LCD type displays.
Can any body provide any input?

Thanks

Hi, I just received the H78DC3, setup it, it has been running for an hour or so. Very nice clear sharp picture. I tried the Panasonic AE700 and the Sony HS50, what a difference. BUt ... I see lot of pixalization on fast moving scenes? I though this only existed on LCD type displays.
Can any body provide any input?

Thanks

What source are you using to see this pixalization?

My setup is simple. I use DVI for DVD with an upscaling player. HDTV/SD & JVC DVHS recorder switch thru the amp and go to the PJ via component cables.

For my Tosh 57hx93 in the same room I run the STB/DVI out and an analog DVD player

If you get an Iscan HD+ with SDI mod you can run everything to the Iscan and have one DVI out to the PJ.

I saw an SDI'ed player/Iscan and it was as good as it gets. At a price though.

But no where near DVHS quality... ;) right

Mark, sadly when you pick a non-tensioned screen you have to be careful on the material pick. The only two materials I'd recommend for non-tensioned is High Power of Mat White. These won't show waves too easily with video. The two you mentioned will.
Tom,

The High Power is a high gain screen, I was under the assumption that with such a reflective screen it would show waves and wouldn't I be more apt to get hot spots? The matte white screen would not allow me to use the pj with any ambient because of the of the low gain of the screen. I was trying to get a screen that was going to be used mostly at night but could be used during the day with some ambient light.

I would appreciate your thoughts and explanations as to why those two material would work for me.

What would you recommend in a manual pull down that is tabbed tensioned, keeping value in mind. I choose Da-Lite because of the quality and value. I'm good to go on my audio system, but I'm looking at buying either a upconverting dvd player, but I really rather go with a DVDO iScan+ with a SDI card. I can't find a SDI card for my Toshiba SD-3800, which means I'll have to buy another dvd player (an inexpensive 480i or 480p since I'm just using it as a transport). Also, in my plans is a HD receiver, so you can see, or at least I can see $$$.

Best Regards,
Mark

Hi Dave,

I was wondering is you got my PM?

Mark

Hi Earz, I am using the component video input that is being fed from an Expresvu 6000. I was watching a high definition show at 1080I.
I am going to test the DVI-I input today.
A quick question - how come the Optoma's don't have an HDMI or DVI-D inputs? For a projector this price ...I would have expected to see one of these?

This is the first report I read where someone saw fast pan complaints on the H78?

I wonder if the Sat feed is so compressed it is at the source rather than the PJ causing it?

Can your STB output 720p from a 1080i source? I would like to know how that does?


Keep us informed?

Mark, yes I got your PM and email. Sorry, been very busy.

superman,

The Optoma does have a DVI-D input, it's just integrated into it's DVI-I connection. I think you are getting them confused. A DVI-D is actually limiting w/ connection possibilities and the DVI-I is the better choice. With DVI-I it can accept both analog and digital RGB signals, with DVI-D it is limited to only digital RGB.

For DVI-I, look at the connectors and do you see the extra 4 pins around the center pin that's located to one side??? These carry the analog RGBS signals. DVI-D doesn't have them.

It is also a better option for manufacturers to use a DVI-I connector on their products because then either a DVI-D or DVI-I cable will work with it, making it easier on the consumer. Try connecting a DVI-I cable into a DVI-D connection...ain't gonna work...unless you break off some pins;)!!!

tehotaone,

I have used the EVu system and I bet that's the problem. The HD signals are compressed badly, plus 1080i isn't the best choice for fast motion, especially sports. Yes, the EVu 6000 can output a 1080i signal at 720p. I don't think it will help though as it is most likely in the source.

Mark I have a 80x45 Video Spectra with a H77 and I think it looks great. I see no hotspoting or sparkles at all. I have the model C CSR and it does not have any waves. Also it has a great viewing angle. :)

Dale

Mark I have a 80x45 Video Spectra with a H77 and I think it looks great. I see no hotspoting or sparkles at all. I have the model C CSR and it does not have any waves. Also it has a great viewing angle. :)

Dale
Hey azjetski,

I've got to a point where I can't make a decision. At first, I thought I had it all planned out to get either the Da-Lite HCMW or the Video Spectra because of the quality, value and my budget. I've been told not to short change myself when it comes to the screen, that it can make all the difference whether you get a good or an excellent picture.

One recommendation was the Stewart Firehawk, which is at least 3 times the cost of the Da-Lite. Which would be doable if I fore go my other items I've planned for ie...new dvd player, iScan+/sdi card, plus all the other misc items.

You would totally recommend the Video Spectra and have no reservations? So, I assume if you had a chance to buy another screen you would still choose the Da-lite with the Video Spectra material? Can you give me your thoughts on the pros and cons (if any) on the screen.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. It's really hard you selected a screen without a change to demo one, so feedback is so helpful.

Thanks again,
Regards,
Mark

Mark I have a 80x45 Video Spectra with a H77 and I think it looks great. I see no hotspoting or sparkles at all. I have the model C CSR and it does not have any waves. Also it has a great viewing angle. :)

Dale
How is the picture quality in the econ mode? That was one of the reasons I was thinking about the Video Spectra with the extra gain, I thought it would be fine in that mode. I know the H78 outputs 600 lumens in econ mode, so it should be fine in a controlled environment.

Mark

At 585lumens in econo you'll be at 15fl screen lumens with a 106" 1.0 gain screen, 1.5 gain you'll be at 22fl which is kinda high considering reference is 12fl. Tab tensioned you could pick any dalite material you want according to what you're looking for in brightness, light rejection etc.

I talked about the HP and MW mainly for non-tensioned.

Mark all I can say as I am very happy with it. When I was looking at replacing my last screen which was a Da-lite matt white, and I was using it with a Nec HT1100, I found that the matt white was just to dim. And in ambient conditions light it was hopeless, it was just way to washed out for my taste. I wanted to get a good screen that I could have my 1100 ceiling mounted. The price was right and the screen sample looked very good for a 92" screen in which was the perfect width for my room so I bought one. Now I have been through 3 projectors since and I am still very happy with the Video-Spectra.

When I was shopping around a couple dealers said the same thing. They where trying to sell me a Fire hawk as well. Of course they will make more on the Fire hawk so I would expect them to try to push it.

Da-lite makes a hell of a screen, I personally will not ever get another model B, because of the wave problem that Tom is talking about. If you chose to go with a Da-lite pull-up screen do yourself a favor and get a model C, it has a bigger diameter roller that helps prevent wave problems. I do not have any waves on my screen and I roll it up every day. Plus it is built a lot better and will hold up to everyday use.

As far as your answer to your question would I buy it again, of coarse I would. But I would have to say that I prefer around 20 ft lamberts of brightness for my taste. And that is while it is in econo mode. Plus I do have the Wife that seems to like to watch with some light on. When I am watching movies without her I prefer it dark as possible. And it has good blacks while viewing in cave conditions. And it still is plenty bright with almost 400 hours on the lamp.

Now if I was going to have a screen bigger then 106” dia I would get a High-Power and shelf mount it so I could get maximum gain, so that you will have the brightness you will need when the lamp ages and the picture quality dims. I had a sample of a Fire Hawk but I could not see paying the 3 to 4 times the price for the difference that I personally seen between the two.

I had a fellow AVS member nelson4u over last weekend so he could try out his H79 out. He is still in the progress of setting up his HT room, so he wanted to see how it looked with the sources and screen that I had. It was great to get together with a fellow member. I had a great time and it was great to compare the H77 against the H79. Plus it was great to try out his Lumagen HDP scaler and not have to wait for the projector to resync. It did not really seem to help much with Direct TV SD material much though. I would have to say that the H79 looks better then my H77 panning upgraded projector, but not worth the $2000 difference there is now between the two, and to me personally I would not pay any more then $500. Of coarse keep in mind that is with the panning upgrade. Without it I would say the H79 would be worth the difference, When Tom is able to upgrade the H77 it will be a hell of a deal at it’s current street price.

Mark if you want to get a idea what he thought of the screen email him, I am sure that he would agree that it looked very good. I guess what I am getting at is sure there are better screens out there, but for the money that you will spend you will be very satisfied.
Hope this helps you. Feel free to email me anytime.

Dale

Mark I forgot to mention that Da-lite and Draper along with other screen manufactures will send you there differant screen samples upon request. Stewart will send you samples but it seems like you have to wait forever for them and that is after you bug them for them a couple times.

Dale

...When I was shopping around a couple dealers said the same thing. They where trying to sell me a Fire hawk as well. Of course they will make more on the Fire hawk so I would expect them to try to push it.
Dale


All I can say is at least from me, that is a bunch of "bunk". I recommended the Firehawk because that is a great fit for his application. There is a reason that Stewart is more expensive. BTW, the markup is the same for all our screens, so it is a moot point.

I am an ISF certified calibrationist first and a salesman second and that is how I treat EVERY sale:mad:

Please try speaking from knowledge and not just your wallet.

Of course anyone who had read my inpput on the issue knows I highly recommend the Firehawk, particularly if you have *any* ambient light. And I don't sell them.

Hell I am a Da-Lite dealer and I acknowledge that Stewart is the best. You get what you pay for!

Hold on guys I was answering Marks questions not yours. Since he directly asked for my opinion so I give him my honest opinion. He has been asking about a Da-Lite screen for a few days now so it is obvious that is really what he prefers and can afford and leaves him with extra money to buy other things like he has already mentioned. And for the record I happen to think the Firehawk is a great screen but do I think it is worth 3 to 4 times more , hell no not to me at least. You guys may think it is and that is your opinion.

But lets face it not every fricking person has money to burn, and some just want a quality image with the least amount of money. So in my opinion the Da-lite screens is the way to go if you are a cheap a$$ like me.

Quote from Dave
Please try speaking from knowledge and not just your wallet.

Dave that comment was very uncalled for! I would have expected that kind of comment from Kras but not from you. It is obvious from that comment that you consider me dumb and cheap, I really do not care what you think. It also is obvious that you have plenty money to throw around and since you do why don't you sell Mark a Firehawk for $350 because that's what it would cost him for the Da-Lite. :D

Dale

Not like my opinion matters much, but:

Jetski:

You set the tone for Dave's response insinuating "he" would sell you something to make more money not what was the best value/picture. Retailers have feelings too :)

Both comments were equally underhanded.


The Firehawk is amazing, I too agree it is the best HC gain screen...it just sucks that it happens to be 4-5 times the price....I also agree it is not worth the premium unless you can afford/justify it without heavy thought.

I cannot :)


TJ

TJ if Dave took what I said on that subject to heart I am sorry for that. But I was never aiming that comment towards anybody, but the two local dealers that I was shopping at when I was buying a screen. They where just like used car salesman {really greedy and cocky}. They think only Stewart and Sim2 and Runco are the only good products out there and say everything else is just junk. I hate sales people like that and would just like to kick their arrogant ass. Once a sales person comes across that way with me and cut down other manufactures products I will never buy from them. And you have to admit there is a lot of shady retail Salesmen out there.

I ended up buying it locally through US-tech electronics, he also does Internet sales. Mac was a great guy to work with.

I think a courteous Salesperson should ask for a budget range that I want to stay within, and not try to bankrupt me. We all have other bills to pay. A good example is John aka angilasauris of Integrity Home Theater, I have talked with him afew times and he has always come across as to work in my best interest and answers any questions I have. I have never heard him cut any product down that he doe's not sell. And seems willing to give you his honest opinion of the shortcomings of what he does sell. I feel bad that I have not bought a projector from him yet. But when Infocus comes out with a 1080P single chip projector and he has one I think I will be taking a road trip to Colorado to pick one up. Sounds like a great ski trip also. :D

Dale

Dave and Dale,

I've had 4 rear projection TV, but this is my first front pj, so I'm a real newbie when it comes to this subject, but it's from people like the both of you and this forum that I've learned so much. I appreciate all your comments because I believe the info that you are giving me is from your own unique experiences.

I'm very much into 2 channel audio and I personally feel it's a excellent mid-fi system ie...
Aragon 8008 MKII amp
Classe CP-45 preamp
Jolida JD-100 CD player
Aerial Acoustic 10T
Velodyne Subwoofer
Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cable
Nordost Blue Heaven interconnect
Harmonic Technology Truthlink interconnect
DH Labs solid silver interconnect/Eichmann Silver Bullet Plugs

My point is every single component makes up the whole system. I could have decided to go to a different component at a different price point on anyone of one that I've listed. My HT system, I feel exactly the same as my audio system, in that, I make decisions on each component as to what quality and value each one is going to give me. Anyone that's into 2 channel audio can argue that they would prefer another component over one that I have chosen and I really can't argue that. What's good for one may not be good for the next person. Generally, in audio the best bang for the $$$ is buying good speakers, I've bought my pj, what's next?

I respect both opinions. I believe the Stewart Firehawk to be one of the best screens available because I just demo'd one, but it comes at a price. I also believe the Da-Lite may not be the quality the Firehawk is but at it's price point, I feel it's an excellent screen. The screen is one component in my HT system, once I decide in which direction I want my system to go in, then budgeting for the screen will come into play.

Respectfully,
Mark

PS. My current Ht system,
57" HD WS Hitachi Ultravision
Optoma H78DC3
Toshiba 3800 DVDplayer 480p
DTV HD
Aerial 3CCB center channel
Yamaha 2400 using preouts to my preamp to run my front mains off my main amp
and to run my center and rear channels and process Ht ( upgrade to a Aragon
HT processor at some point)
Wharfedale Evo 30 Floorstanders rear channel speakers (will up grade to Aerial at
some point)

To finish off my front pj system is the screen but the other decisions, I want to make at this time is whether to upgrade my DVD player (to a upconverting player) or go to an DVDO iScan+/SDI, the issue with this is they don't make a SDI card for my Toshiba which means I will have to purchase another player anyway.

...I think a courteous Salesperson should ask for a budget range that I want to stay within, and not try to bankrupt me. We all have other bills to pay.
Dale


Sorry if I came across angry too Dale. I just took offense to the comments when you weren't privy to Mark and I's conversation on the phone where I think the first thing I asked him was his budget (Mark?). Then when he said he wanted an outboard scaler, DVD upscaler, SDI mods and the like, I suggested to him, based on his High End Audio background, that a screen is as much an integral part of the equation as say an amp is to a Pre/pro, so if I had my drothers it would be better to put the money into the best screen for his application as it would probably yield a better image for his budget than the other options. He could always budget them for a little later.

It's easier to swap out DVD players and scalers than it is screens don't you think:rolleyes:!!!

... It also is obvious that you have plenty money to throw around and since you do why don't you sell Mark a Firehawk for $350 because that's what it would cost him for the Da-Lite. :D

Dale

Man, if you only knew my financial situation right now you'd laugh;)!!!

I just lost TWO careers that I had for 18 years because of medical situations and haven't really been paid for a month while I wait for the gov't to get their sh!t together.

All you guys are great and I apologize if I offended anyone:( I just take it personally when someone questions my morals and integrity, because right now that's about all I have:D!!!

Mark,
I am planning a similar set-up to yours (screen in front of entertainment center, mostly evening viewing), so I would be very interested to hear how it works out for you.

All,
I am planning to feed all my sources into a VP30, then use a splitter/amp to feed my RPTV and the PJ (via a 30-35' HDMI cable). Anybody got a similar set-up? Did you find an amplifier was necessary? Any recommendations on a particular model or good source of quality cables?

Thanks,
Mike

Sorry if I came across angry too Dale. I just took offense to the comments when you weren't privy to Mark and I's conversation on the phone where I think the first thing I asked him was his budget (Mark?). Then when he said he wanted an outboard scaler, DVD upscaler, SDI mods and the like, I suggested to him, based on his High End Audio background, that a screen is as much an integral part of the equation as say an amp is to a Pre/pro, so if I had my drothers it would be better to put the money into the best screen for his application as it would probably yield a better image for his budget than the other options. He could always budget them for a little later.

It's easier to swap out DVD players and scalers than it is screens don't you think:rolleyes:!!!

No problem Dave I was half drunk when I posted it, not even realizing you were in contact with Mark. And like I said it was not aimed at you at all, just 2 dealers in Phoenix. And yes you are right if a person can afford a Firehawk it is one of the best screens you can get with a big range between low lumen and high lumen projectors and still get one hell of a image. :)
Sorry I snapped back.

Dale

Man, if you only knew my financial situation right now you'd laugh;)!!!

I just lost TWO careers that I had for 18 years because of medical situations and haven't really been paid for a month while I wait for the gov't to get their sh!t together.

All you guys are great and I apologize if I offended anyone:( I just take it personally when someone questions my morals and integrity, because right now that's about all I have:D!!!

Sorry about that comment also. But I was just joking with that one.

Also sorry about your recent job change. I know that sucks. I am just around the corner from having my job being obsolete and I have been in it for 25 years. More and more of my friends are having to change careers because film is dying and digital is coming on strong. I guess that's why I am starting to be a cheap a$$ anymore, trying to save up for when it happens. :(

Good luck at AVS I hope it works out for you.

Dale

Mark,
I am planning a similar set-up to yours (screen in front of entertainment center, mostly evening viewing), so I would be very interested to hear how it works out for you.

All,
I am planning to feed all my sources into a VP30, then use a splitter/amp to feed my RPTV and the PJ (via a 30-35' HDMI cable). Anybody got a similar set-up? Did you find an amplifier was necessary? Any recommendations on a particular model or good source of quality cables?

Thanks,
Mike
Mike,

Da-Lite sent me samples of there screen material. I was able to take my pj and the samples to my cousins, he has a dedicated HT room. I was able to do allot of testing not only with the samples but with source inputs.

My cousin has a Stewart screen (can't remember the model but it's white with a 1.3 gain) that I thought was excellent with his Barco CRT and my Optoma H78DC3. Of all the sample that I had, one was almost identical to his, in terms of contrast, brightness, color, and detail and that turned out to be the Video Spectra. I order the model C with CSR in 54x96 with the VS material today.

It seems we have the exact same setup. I've checked into a few DVI splitters, switchers, and DVI relays, only because I'm still not sure in which direction I want to go with my source and how I will ultimately connect that into my HT system. I obviously want all my sources (DVD, HD DTV, and SVHS) to go to both my RPTV and my PJ is one issue. The other is it worth the money for an outboard processor (in my case the HD iScan+), if I decide to go this direction I can use the iScan as my switcher. If I get a SDI card for the iScan this will leave the DVI input open for my DTV HD DVI input, otherwise I would have to get a DVI switcher.

When I was testing, I hooked up a cheap Toshiba 480p DVD player directly to my PJ and it looked really good. I then hooked up my cousin HTPC and let the computer upconvert, process the signal, putting it in the naive resolution of the pj, I expected excellent results. It was good but not as much improvement as I thought I was going to get. That brings me back to where now I'm thinking is it worth getting the iScan, but by the time I buy all the splitters and switchers and cabling running to both the RPTV an PJ, it'll probably cost me at least 50% of the iScan.

Enough rambling from me, let me know what you decide to do. You can email me to let me know what you decide on.

Regards,
Mark

Mike,

Da-Lite sent me samples of there screen material. I was able to take my pj and the samples to my cousins, he has a dedicated HT room. I was able to do allot of testing not only with the samples but with source inputs.

My cousin has a Stewart screen (can't remember the model but it's white with a 1.3 gain) that I thought was excellent with his Barco CRT and my Optoma H78DC3. Of all the sample that I had, one was almost identical to his, in terms of contrast, brightness, color, and detail and that turned out to be the Video Spectra. I order the model C with CSR in 54x96 with the VS material today.

Regards,
Mark

Mark,

You should do all your testing in your environment, not your cousin's dedicated HT room. That is where your setup will be and you have to make sure it works for you and the challenges your room introduces. DO NOT base your decision on what you saw there. His screen sounds like a Stewart StudioTek 130, a great match for the H77/78/79 if the conditions are right.


It seems we have the exact same setup. I've checked into a few DVI splitters, switchers, and DVI relays, only because I'm still not sure in which direction I want to go with my source and how I will ultimately connect that into my HT system. I obviously want all my sources (DVD, HD DTV, and SVHS) to go to both my RPTV and my PJ is one issue. The other is it worth the money for an outboard processor (in my case the HD iScan+), if I decide to go this direction I can use the iScan as my switcher. If I get a SDI card for the iScan this will leave the DVI input open for my DTV HD DVI input, otherwise I would have to get a DVI switcher.

Whatever you decide to do, give me a call as we can get you any of the products you desire. Gefen, DVDO, DaLite, Stewart, etc.

Dale, thanks for the kind words and I certainly figured there was no ill will in your comments. I love you, man...but your not getting my Bud Lite;)!!!

Hi, quick question ..I have the H78DC3 ..... how come DLP is only limited to 24bit colour and 256 shades of gray? LCD projectors have "number of displayable colors to more than 1 billion with over 1024 gradations"? Example some LCD use 12bit video processing.
Does this not limit what DLP is capable of displaying? Also how many bits does this H78dc3 use for video processing or this question can not be asked for DLP projectors?

Thanks

Dave; I left you a PM re:H79

Viper, got it, thanks. I replied to your inquiry:)

David Peterson,

If you're out there, I sent you a reply to your email but it keeps bouncing back to me for some reason:confused: I'll keep trying, but if you could email or PM me back with some other contact numbers I'd be happy to let you know what I said.

P.S. - I just sent that email again and it seems to have gone thru. Let me know either way:)

Hi, quick question ..I have the H78DC3 ..... how come DLP is only limited to 24bit colour and 256 shades of gray? LCD projectors have "number of displayable colors to more than 1 billion with over 1024 gradations"? Example some LCD use 12bit video processing.
Does this not limit what DLP is capable of displaying? Also how many bits does this H78dc3 use for video processing or this question can not be asked for DLP projectors?
Thanks

I don't think DLP technology is intrinsically limited to 8-bits per channel, but that looks to be the state of the art for now. Would you really see any difference if there were more? Things like banding tend to come more from the source material or some techology like MPEG2 used to compress it so I doubt if adding more color resolution would help.

As for video processing, there's no reason why the path from the projector inputs to the DLP chip can't use far more bits. It's display technology independent. I'm don't really have much of a clue what goes on in that path* so I don't know how much precision loss is possible. According to Google the H79 has a 10 bit video path so I assume the H78DC3 is the same.

* Actually I just started reading a paper on this at dlp.com. Considering the amount of manipulation going on I'm amazed that it looks as good as it does!

Lost last night Kicked butt in HD on this thing. My wife sat there with her mouth open. That was on a 126" diag picture. There was some scenes that were really dark and had torches flickering I swear if I moved my eyes left and right I saw rainbows but my wife didn't. Watched 30 hrs and this was the first. I suppose this is the rainbow effect? Didn't really bother me though.


John

Is 126" diagonal 9' wide?

I have a 9' wide Carada 1.3 and I am wondering how the picture looks over the 8' "barrier". I am looking into the H78DC3.

Is 126" diagonal 9' wide?

I have a 9' wide Carada 1.3 and I am wondering how the picture looks over the 8' "barrier". I am looking into the H78DC3.

Yes it's 9' wide. The picture looks great. I have it on a Screen Goo'd wall. My first row is 15' away. I can see pixels on Hi Def channels if I look for them but most of the time I can't get over how good the pic is period. Oh I should mention I have a Iscan HD so maybe the pic might be a little cleaner I don't know. My HT has a back row at 20' Which is my favorite spot. Picture is perfect.


John

Got the H78 up and running at about halftime of the ND vs. Purdue football game last night. WOW! I could not believe how sharp the HD image was. A lot of times you could read the lips of the QB calling the play when they had a camera on the huddle.

A couple of questions for more experienced owners. Though Cinema mode looked best for movies, I found I liked Normal mode best for HD sports. Is there any way to send a command to the H78 on startup to go to a particular mode or will it refuse to accept any IR command until it has completed its warm up cycle? Optoma had a link to discrete IR codes on the H78 page but that didn't to help me with a code you normally access through the menu. I may see if remotecentral.com might help with the code.

The H78 manual suggests that high brightness mode decreases contrast. However, a review linked to the H78 page on Optoma's site (http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=43) quotes Optoma as saying contrast remains the same no matter what setting you have the bulb on. Who's right?

Thanks for any help.

mark4x4 -- I have a 106" diagonal Da-Lite Hi-Power Model C (purchased through AVS Sales - Jason Turk, sorry Dave). The reason that the Hi-Power material is less prone to "waves" is that it is a much heavier material than the other Da-Lite screen materials. Without tab-tensioning, a heavy material is required to resist wave formation. Most pull-down screens will not show waves within the first (several?) year(s), or more, it's time dependant.

BTW, I'm real happy with my Hi-power. I did not pay extra for the CSR feature, because I'm used to handling pull-down screens and know how to "ease" the screen up on retraction so as to not let it slam closed (that's what the CSR does) -- it's easy to do once you get the hang of it. I also got the Da-Lite $10 "pull rod", so I don't have the ugly black pull cord hanging down from the ceiling.

Granted the Hi-Power has a high gain (2.8 with a table mounted PJ, around 1.8, or so, for ceiling mounted PJs) but I use a ND2 filter with my present PJ. I bought the screen for my old PJ which only had about 300 Lumens output, after calibration. See http://www.dalite.com/products/selecting.php for descriptions of Da-Lite's screen materials. I'm not sure what the resistance to "waves" are for their other models (it really depends on the weight of the backing material). My 106" Hi-power, Model C, weighs about 58 pounds compared to the 28 lbs for my old Draper Luma 100" (4:3) screen -- which had waves after 20 years (most of which were spent rolled up).

Optoma had a link to discrete IR codes on the H78 page but that didn't to help me with a code you normally access through the menu. I may see if remotecentral.com might help with the code.The "discrete IR" link on Optoma's site is not really what one would expect. What it is, is a diagram of the IR codes used by the stock remote. That is the same diagram I used to create the H7x universal remote control files that I contributed to Optoma and the ones they have (had?) on their US website (under H77). Those are the same files that I have on Remote central as well.

When I made those files, I tested all 256 possible IR codes and there are no usable hidden discretes in the projector's current firmware. There are a couple things in the IR command set that are not implemented on the remove, like source toggle, pretty useless since there are already source discretes.

mark4x4 -- I have a 106" diagonal Da-Lite Hi-Power Model C (purchased through AVS Sales - Jason Turk, sorry Dave)...

No problem at all Claus. We're all here for the same reason, to help you guys get great deals and to help out when we can. There are so many of you out there that it is impossible for one person to handle everyone without some customer service slipping. We all get along just fine and are happy when others are doing well because that means AVS is doing well and we all have some job security:D!!!

Just make sure you call ME next time darnit;)!!!

Dave -- I'll certainly will add you to my list. Since I usually frequent the "Under $3500" forum (it's in my budget catagory) I wasn't aware of your name on the AVS sales list :o.

I've recently started looking here, because this crowd seems to have a better handle on the real PJ performance issues. Also, PJs discussed here seem to migrate into my price range rather quickly.

No probelm Claus.

I know, that sucks about these darn things migrating so fast downhill, I lose % points on that;):(:D!!!

While doing some research on programming a remote to control an H78, I found this site which sells a gadget to improve the H7x's ability to accept IR commands:

http://www.av-rs232.com

I had not seen this mentioned before on the H7x threads; sorry if I'm reinventing the wheel.

This is GetGray's invention. He's a regular here. Look up a few posts and he'll be there.

Scott

This is GetGray's invention. He's a regular here. Look up a few posts and he'll be there.

Scott
As soon as GetGray has a website where I can add the device to a shoping cart and then check out and pay with paypal or a credit card, I'm ordering one.

My wife setup a storefront selling sashes (don't get me started). You had to send her (my wife) an email to complete the transaction. I told her she was missing out on a lot of sales because some people won't order if it isn't convenient to do so. You'll also lose out on all the impulse buyers. She said to me that the kind of people that buy sashes hardly use computers and it would be a waste of time to add a shopping cart to her site. Finally, while we had a couple hours of quite time moored at a local marina, I connected to godaddy.com and created a simple shopping site for my wife that costs $7.99 a month. Customers can shope and add product to a cart, check out, and then pay with paypal. Shipping is automatically calculated. The next day she got tons of orders. She is selling so much of the stuff she's having to find ribbon suppliers in China to meet demand.

GoDaddy GetGray!

gregg:

It's not worth the trouble to do it. The paypay address is sales05@av-rs232.com. Verified premier member with all paypal protections and features available. It's not difficult to add up the parts you need and calculate the total, but I ask that people e-mail a very, very simple request form in to be sure they get what they need. I reply with the total and teh address above. You invision a much larger market that this do-dad has. It has a low margin, is built and programmed and personally tested, one at a time (so no bulk part discounts either) and $8.00 month would eat what little profit there is in it. It was more of a service to my peers here who need/want the better remote performance it gave for me. It's not a big money maker :(. If every H7x owner on this forum (who hasn't already) bought one, it still would not be a big money maker.

If someone wants one, they can endure the pain of a e-mail and the lack of a one-click transfer to paypal. If I find some day I have time to setup a spiffy paypal interface, I will, but it's unlikely. If that's what's holding you up, you must be much happier than I was with the lack of discretes and the poor stock remote performance. Even the universal remote files I made and gave out didn't suit me, but I'm picky about remotes. I didn't want what was a $6.2k projector that I have to point and wiggle, and screw with a remote to get it to work properly. Or one that I could accidentally easliky turn off in the middle of a show. Thus the AV-RS232 was born to solve the problem, and it did nicely.

Don't take it the wrong way, I appreciate the constructive critisicm, and the advice to help it's sales. I wish I had time to spiff the interface up. It is free for me to interface with Paypal (no "go daddy" requied), but I just don't have the time to budget for it. I think every regular in both the H77 and H79 threads, except maybe Tom bought one. So the "market" is pretty much saturated now. Only a few stragglers coming on-board and getting a H7x here and there now. If it's a matter of trust, there should be plenty here to speak to the device or myself.

I'd rather spend my free time making something new for others to use than losing $96/year to have a button checkout when a brief e-mail worked fine for everyone who needed one.

Right now I'm trying to work out a calibration disc for us all to use:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586139

Cheers,
Scott

Shopping for H78DC3 in Toronto, Canada. Anyone out there with info about (1) where I can have an audition (2) I can have a better deal than the C$4995 plus 15% taxes.
Thanks a lot.
Si

Cross post from the H77 thread, Getgrey dumped a PM there...

Guys, I have been watching my H78dc3 for a day now. sometimes I can't believe how good it is.

I am a little disappointed that I still see "blurring/breakup" in panning like my hd2+ machine...It is not quite as bad but still there.

It was my impression that the DC3 chip eliminated this totaly, so maybe i was under the wrong impression. :)

I also see the false contour/ bit depth issue in the backround scenes, again not terrible but there.

I guess I had VERY high hopes that this PJ had addressed the artifacting situation of the H77 a little better than what I am seeing, I bought the H78 for this reason.

Any ideas or scenes to try and gauge if I am just hyperfocusing?


Thanks,

TJ

Sorry, I put it in the H77 thread instead of here 'cause Tom named this the "H7x happy thread" :D. I didn't want to rain on any yeahsayers :):).

Maybe Tom should start a H78 specific thread. I figured the H78 was closer to H77 than H79, but hell who knows what's really inside them.

Best,
Scott

TJ,

What you are seeing could be from the source too. What are they? DirecTV is known for this with their horrible compression rates and some DVDs are just not mastered as well as others.

I am seeing a slight blurring in pans from 480p Rp56 dvd source "Lost" component

I also see contouring/blurring in 720p native Comcast feeds dvi-hdmi-dvi.

I see the least fed rgbhv 720 native htpc Geforce 6600gt dvi to vga to rgbhv cable, but I have not used it for a lot of critical dvd viewing, but i do have some TS files I have been watching thru VLC.

I am not saying it is horrible, but I was led to believe thru these threads that it was gone completely. I am not a LCD fan at all, so this unit would be my only purchase I would feel comfortable financial/longevity wise until the 1080p stuff comes out of the stratosphere.

But, I have said maybe there are some settings I am missing or tweaks to be had, maybe it is judder? I am terribly happy with the picture, it's capabilites far outreach my room's contrast ratio, so ultimately i have more to go.

Could you look up your CWI both pal and ntsc on the 79, as well as the 3dpro settings and post them here for comparison?


Thanks
TJ

Cross post from the H77 thread, Getgrey dumped a PM there...

Guys, I have been watching my H78dc3 for a day now. sometimes I can't believe how good it is.

I am a little disappointed that I still see "blurring/breakup" in panning like my hd2+ machine...It is not quite as bad but still there.

It was my impression that the DC3 chip eliminated this totaly, so maybe i was under the wrong impression. :)

I also see the false contour/ bit depth issue in the backround scenes, again not terrible but there.

I guess I had VERY high hopes that this PJ had addressed the artifacting situation of the H77 a little better than what I am seeing, I bought the H78 for this reason.

Any ideas or scenes to try and gauge if I am just hyperfocusing?


Thanks,

TJ

Here's a killer breakup scene. Chapter 28 LOTR's, Journey in the Dark. As actors move in the Cave with Gandolf light you'll either see smoothness or motion contours waves all around the actors. The H79 will play this very smooth, the H77 played them with the contour breakup waves. You're H78 should play this like the H79.
good luck

Tom,

Thanks I will try that. On another note how hot is hot...?

I am not trying to be too tweaky :) But, this thing is blazing warm almost too hot if you keep your hand on it?

Is that right? I realize there is a 250w bulb in there on that side, but it soaks the underplate or top when ceiling mounted...

I just wondered if this is normal?


The exhaust fan is 1 foot off the wall and no obstructions.....

I have had units in the past that run hot, but not like this... as we know heat is the enemy. I am sure people a whole lot more intelligent than I.. have taken this into account...but whew!?!?


Comments?

You bet it's hot with a 250watt bulb, no need to worry I haven't heard of any fires or even bulbs blowing up. I just saw one all apart, the bulbs at the furthest point from everything else. The bulb is in the upper right corner away from the light chamber and away from the circuit boards.

Thanks Tom,

I have noticed that fed a 480p DVD source the right side of the image cuts off about 10-18 lines, not a huge deal but why? The scaler isn't taking the 480p all the way out to the end of the panel.

Is there any overscan adjustment here? because in addition in native mode 720p from my cable box I get a orange line on the left of the image. It is in the signal, not from the PJ.... I had it before but if I just had a couple of ticks on a overscan control that would help.


All in all she shaping up nicely, the pans are a little blurry but not nearly as broken up as the HD2+ machine I just replaced. The false contour is the same improvement, better than before but not gone.



TJ

I use 16.9 which is 1% overscan for SDTV and sometimes 480p TV. Some TV i'll use the digital vertical shift to move up and take out junk at the top.

480p DVD there s/b no cropping if you're player doesn't have it's own pixel cropping, but many do crop.

The blurry panning on those tuff shots will look blurry in the same way with other displays like Tube CRT or RPTV CRTs I've tested it. Actually were very lucky the Optoma DC3 pans the way it does. Some other DC3's don't pan so well, the Seleco for one.

I will check, but it's a rp56 Panasonic, it did not crop on my Toshiba Mt700.


edit: Just checked my friend's Oppo on his 78, and it does crop/blur 5 or so pixels confirmed with Avia pixel cropping pattern set to 480p 60hz projector on 16:9
It's not really a crop as much as a weird reflection/blur.

I am just fine tuning everything now that the WOW has subsided, I love the picture just trying to work out the small bugs.

Thanks for all your help, please check out my post for the default 79 settings, I could really use the stock values to test a hunch I have.


TJ

All my defaults are changed, service menu everywhere. sri

tehotaone:

Here's what I had for factory settings:
H79 DVI input is all I recorded

contrast -4
brightness 0
sharpness 3
gamma 2
color temp 2
Adv RGB
contrast -10 -16 -13
Bright -4 5 5
lamp hour 39

SVC Menu:
image film
adv - all 0's
signal all 0's phase 40
blank=black
lock=no
brite=off
colorspace=auto

lamp 19
disp 39

DPTV3Dpro
NR on
2Disp auto
gamma off 1
motion dect off
image format native
color wheel index 50hz 27 60hz 27
NDG eff 0
pict rgb
gain 136 117 121
bias 115 118 118
spoke light on
dlp RGB
brightness 50,50,50
contrast 50 50 50
degammatable 01
ADC RGB
gain 183 184 183
offset 58 62 46
record fan fail
record overtemp


That's all I have.
Scott

Tom:

Now that I have the service menu list in front of me it reminded me I forgot which service RGB was which.

Do you know the difference between Picture/Gain/Bias RGB's and the DLP/Brightness/Contrast RGB's?

I figured it out a long time ago on my H77 by experimenting, but now I forget. Seems like the DLP adjustment was global and the other one was per input and/or resolution.

I have a Eye-One Pro on the way, I'm checking out umr's Accucal software. Do You know which set did what? Then there's the ADC/Gain/Offset RGB's, too.

I sure wish Optoma would give us (me) some inside info on the service menu. I meant to ask Wing this very thing at CEDIA when I spoke to him but was in a hurry and forgot.

Thanks,
Scott

Do you know the difference between Picture/Gain/Bias RGB's and the DLP/Brightness/Contrast RGB's?

I figured it out a long time ago on my H77 by experimenting, but now I forget. Seems like the DLP adjustment was global and the other one was per input and/or resolution.

I have a Eye-One Pro on the way, I'm checking out umr's Accucal software. Do You know which set did what? Then there's the ADC/Gain/Offset RGB's, too.


I think you're right on the "PICTURE" and "DLP" settings. The "ADC" if I remember correctly is "Analog to Digital Conversion" and it effects the signal when it is an analog input being digitized for processing and display.

Since a couple of you guys have some contacts within Optoma, I wonder if you could inquire whether the firmware for the H7X series could be modified to allow some menu items to be directly addressed by IR commands. My HT room is painted fairly dark grey and with the IR sensor of the H78 on the rear panel, it is not as responsive to the remote as I'd like. I may try an IR repeater this weekend to see if that helps.

Watched some baseball in HD last night on the H78. I cranked the lamp up to high power and it looked like I had a 9' wide plasma, which would cost more than my house, if they are even made.

There is a an IR pickup sensor in the front of the unit just below the DLP logo...

Aim for that...I find a straight up on axis with it works pretty well, negating all the bad press on the crappy remote.


TJ

Since there is no competition I think it's OK to plug myself, Dave let me know if not.

I wouldn't hold my breath on any firmware changes. There has only been 1 or 2 changes, ever. And even if they release a FW update (again, unlikely), they will not allow users to do it. It requires someone who has the update code. I know of 4 people who have it including Tom (I think), Dave Harper (AVS), and Optoma. Optoma has the resources that would develop and FW focused on their 1080 unit according to the guys at CEDIA.

If the pointing workaround doesn't suit you, you might want to check out the AV-RS232 in my signature. It solves all this H7x remote ridiculiousness, perfectly. And give several discrete codes (direct one-button action or access) you asked for. At a cost, but considering the cost of the PJ, not too bad.

Hope that helps, Scott

Scott,

THere have been many FW updates if you are talking the H77 thru the H79? They started with C08 if I remember right and now it's up to C17 I think. I don't remember how many were actually released to the public, but I got a lot of them through email tech spt.

You are correct that they are hard at work on 1080p and I doubt any new FW is forthcoming for the H77/8/9.

Maybe Tom knows more?

They're done at C17 and working on the soon to be 1080p machine plus other things. They're using the wobulation chip in RPTV's. Plus for installers they have a giant RPTV setup which I saw last week. 100" screen with the 1080p wobbler behind it and the new processor also. That picture looked excellent to me, some of it may have been the processor.

I want one of these processors and I wish I had a room were I could build a false wall at one end and install this 100" RPTV setup. You could watch that image in broad daylight and still have extreme contrast. Oh that wobbler had a automated Iris also.

Tom:

Now that I have the service menu list in front of me it reminded me I forgot which service RGB was which.

Do you know the difference between Picture/Gain/Bias RGB's and the DLP/Brightness/Contrast RGB's?

I figured it out a long time ago on my H77 by experimenting, but now I forget. Seems like the DLP adjustment was global and the other one was per input and/or resolution.

I have a Eye-One Pro on the way, I'm checking out umr's Accucal software. Do You know which set did what? Then there's the ADC/Gain/Offset RGB's, too.

I sure wish Optoma would give us (me) some inside info on the service menu. I meant to ask Wing this very thing at CEDIA when I spoke to him but was in a hurry and forgot.

Thanks,
Scott

Wing told me they're a chain set of RGB's. ADC being first, DLP then Picture. In all the Optoma models DLP is usually standard and set the same so I wouldn't use those. I think Wing said they work directly to the DMD. He said ADC is very dynamic in what it does. If ADC was available I'd tune from there. It doesn't show up on all signals though, I think just progressive not sure. If no ADC I'd tune Picture in the service area.

The main advantage using ADC & Picture is the small menu it puts in the high left corner. Out of the way which makes things easier.

I was even using the auto-cals in the ADC area, just the black and white but now that I have the Accupel with it's reference Magenta I might try Auto-color. Which I recommend no one every try because we have no reference Magenta on the DVD tune up discs.

Good idea getting the Eye-one you should like the colors you'll get. I still like our other type color sensor when I'm in a hurry. You're going to be biting your nails waiting for a few dark readings at 30IRE. The Eye-one needs allot of dark readings, some do a dark reading every time they go back to the Low IRE.

Scott,

THere have been many FW updates if you are talking the H77 thru the H79? They started with C08 if I remember right and now it's up to C17 I think. I don't remember how many were actually released to the public, but I got a lot of them through email tech spt.

You are correct that they are hard at work on 1080p and I doubt any new FW is forthcoming for the H77/8/9.

Don't mistunderstand my tone, but this was a sore spot with me until I found workarounds for the main issues I had. I'm perfectly happy with my 79, I've worked around all it's shortcomings. But, for firmware updates Optoma *stinks*. Lumagen cranks them out every 2 weeks as they continue to release enhancements. You'd think they were going to have to give a prize if 2 people noticed any flaw. One person peeps about it, and POOF, it's fixed, the next day. Really. And I don't have to sign a NDA to do an update.

FW went C08 on the original H77, I got one and was a early adopter. C17 implies C09, C10, C11, etc. I never saw nor heard of any of those variations, except during that short stint when they were working with you to resolve the panning issue. For the H77 there was one early FW and that one was discussed here. C1?, I think it was C17 as well to fix a letterbox and some other minor issue IIRC. Even that required a trip to CA without you know what. Fortunately with some tenacity, I found a way around it, but not one that I can make "public" either. There have been no FW changes to the 79's. It still has H77 labelled FW. If you saw all those versions, you were the only one who saw them 'round here.

"Public" is a misnomer since none of their FW's were public. You are the only one who ever saw any variations with your working with TS dept and with your FW loader that you were unable to share. And NO FW update was ever made public, that is, NO FW was ever given to the public to load. Hell, even dealers had to jump and down to get it and at least some of them failed.

No official announcements were made by Optoma for PJ FW AFAIK, ever. Even the H77 owners were never properly addressed and now they have an end user doing secret quiet updates for them. No offense T.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, the point is moot, I'll whine no more about it. We agree no one should expect any FW updates, even if they want to sent it in. T.'s secret update not included.

But, with my Lumagen HDP and my AV-RS232 I'm perfectly happy unitl my next PJ... Now it's: "Firmware? We don't need no stinking firmware" :)

Wing told me they're a chain set of RGB's. ADC being first, DLP then Picture. In all the Optoma models DLP is usually standard and set the same so I wouldn't use those. I think Wing said they work directly to the DMD. He said ADC is very dynamic in what it does. If ADC was available I'd tune from there. It doesn't show up on all signals though, I think just progressive not sure. If no ADC I'd tune Picture in the service area.

The main advantage using ADC & Picture is the small menu it puts in the high left corner. Out of the way which makes things easier.

I was even using the auto-cals in the ADC area, just the black and white but now that I have the Accupel with it's reference Magenta I might try Auto-color. Which I recommend no one every try because we have no reference Magenta on the DVD tune up discs.

Good idea getting the Eye-one you should like the colors you'll get. I still like our other type color sensor when I'm in a hurry. You're going to be biting your nails waiting for a few dark readings at 30IRE. The Eye-one needs allot of dark readings, some do a dark reading every time they go back to the Low IRE. Thanks Tom. That's pretty much what I remembered. I found unfortunately I got better results if I turned off the menu after making and adjustment when I was fine tunign. Tedious for sure. Something else for their FW update list I'm waiting on, not glowing yellow menus. Oh well.

I figured you'd be wanting to try that Magenta with the Accupel. I thought of that the day I read you were buying one.

I got a deal on the EyeOne Pro and already had teh accucal software, figured I'd play with it and see how I liked it. I still like my CA-6X too.

Just announced: Optoma H81 1080p DLP to be released 2nd quarter 2006 and a new 720p before year's end.

When do we see a price impact on the H78/79 you guess?

Scott,

I totally agree with everything you said. I also remember all the gripes you have had since the inception of these Optomas (H77/8/9).

I guess I was maybe one of the only ones to get their FW, hehehe;):D:rolleyes::)

romanesq,

Where's the press release on that? Is there a link? I guess I should check their website, huh?

When do we see a price impact on the H78/79 you guess?

Where have you been the last few months?;) The H79 has gone from almost $10K MSRP down to about $4700 and still dropping:eek:!!! They're less than I paid dealer cost a few months ago. This thing is the steal of the month right now.

Moving right along, can we just not dwell on the past and move on (and less)? :)

Here's the link:

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20051007AA054.html

Good idea and thanks for the link:)

Wow, I just checked out the prices too, very affordable:eek:

The products will be priced at NT$150,000-200,000 (US$4,510-6,013) and will soon replace high-end 720p products.

Hey guys need a little advice setting up the H79

Have been setting up the projector with a panasonic s97. Now this might be what is supposed to happen so forgive if that is so but for some reason i can not set YUV component colour space for the DVI input. I can set it at the PJ fine but the dvd player will only allow RGB to go out via the HDMI output to the dvi input of the H79 (and thus a green pic unless i also stick the H79 in rgb mode as well)

can i only get RGB to go out because the dvd player is seeing a DVI input?

Thanks in advance

Yes, I think that's exactly what it is, unfortunately:( You can select Digital YCbCr for the DVI input on the H79, but it seems that nothing will send that to it and it won't recognize it anyway. I have tried on numerous occasions to no avail.

It also seems that the engineers from Optoma don't understand it either. I asked Wing at CEDIA about this and he didn't understand at all what I was asking him:confused: Then I turned to Greg Rogers of AccuPel and WSR fame who did that great article on the H79 and he states in it that he tested YCbCr through the DVI input, but no one I have ever heard from on all these H77/8/9 threads has ever gotten YCbCr to work on the DVI input:mad: He said that he used his AccuPel HDG-3000 generator in YCbCr mode.

Has ANYONE got the DVI input to accept a digital YCbCr signal:rolleyes:????

I just answered Dustin's ? in a PM. He needs to set the Pany to Normal (video-brightness level) PJ colospace to Auto. Hitting the Optoma remote DVI button repeativly will get him to Digital/RGB faster.

No Dave the machine isn't set to pickup DVI-digital/YCbCR. Never tried it but doesn't the DVI input accept analog/YCbCR? Maybe that's where it gets picked up. I think I read in the manual DVI can double as a second component connection.

Tom,

Actually, that would be a third component input as there are two others, the RCA YPbPr input and the BNC RGBHV/YPbPr input.

YCbCr is the digital variant of analog component video. YPbPr is the analog version, as well as YUV. YCbCr is the digital component format stored on DVD as an example. You may be on to something though, maybe they just mis-labeled it and that's why Wing looked at me like I had two heads when I asked the question at CEDIA:rolleyes:

But how would you explain why Greg Rogers said in his WSR article that he tested the YCbCr (and he knows what that means) input with his AccuPel HDG-3000??? You have one too right? Can you set it to output YCbCr 4:4:4 thru the DVI output and then set the H79 to try to detect YCbCr for us? It is the scan mode right after it tries to detect analog RGB thru DVI.

Thanks in advance if you could do that:)!!!

I'll try it.

I see, thanks for that. I think i read somewhere that you can force the lumagen scaler to output YUV over DVI. What i think happens in the case of the H79 is that the dvd players see it as a dvi input and not HDMI and so force RGB (which is a pc level)

A guy in the UK also said he had to disconnect his arcam dvd player first then set it to yuv(digital) and then plug it into the H79. well thats if i understood him correctly.

would there be much of a difference?

Is it permitted here to mention that one of the forum sponsor's is matching a deal on projector.com for the H78 that includes a free lamp? Those lamps aren't cheap.

But how would you explain why Greg Rogers said in his WSR article that he tested the YCbCr (and he knows what that means) input with his AccuPel HDG-3000??? You have one too right? Can you set it to output YCbCr 4:4:4 thru the DVI output and then set the H79 to try to detect YCbCr for us? It is the scan mode right after it tries to detect analog RGB thru DVI.

Put in 4:4:4 YCbCr via DVI. Press the DVI button. The projector will say "DVI RGB Detected" or something like that. Go to Color Space in the menu and change the color space to YUV. Done.

Is it permitted here to mention that one of the forum sponsor's is matching a deal on projector.com for the H78 that includes a free lamp? Those lamps aren't cheap.

No:D;):)!!!

Put in 4:4:4 YCbCr via DVI. Press the DVI button. The projector will say "DVI RGB Detected" or something like that. Go to Color Space in the menu and change the color space to YUV. Done.


This is how to get it to receive YCbCr from the 3000, right Greg? If so that's great, but I can't force my 59avi to do this. I can only change HDMI settings in it when it detects a valid HDMI connected and the only thing it detects is digital RGB.

Maybe I can try that with my Lumagen. If no go, I guess it's time to just give it up:rolleyes:

I'll try it.

Did you get a chance to try it Tom?

This is how to get it to receive YCbCr from the 3000, right Greg? If so that's great, but I can't force my 59avi to do this. I can only change HDMI settings in it when it detects a valid HDMI connected and the only thing it detects is digital RGB.

Same here. I have Panny S97 and it detects digital RGB and doesn't allow to change it.

Guys I just tried to take some screen shots to get opinions on color balance.

These are hand held shots, so the focus does not represent detail as much as I would like. It is razor sharp and looks like it's 4 feet deep.

Very analog if I do say so, I did a 30 to 90 Ire cal with the Spyder TV and plotted it on the spreadsheet, x=310 y=328 gamma avg is 2.26. Could not quite hit target .313 and .330 I did find it much easier to flatten it out using color temp 1, the "throws" were a lot less to come closer to those targets.


I started with all defaults and only used adv adj. I tried some posted settings, they looked very nice, a touch too red but found the gamma very high, so I started over from scratch.

The WB of the camera is coming close, but it is even more pure in person.

Comments? Again focus stinks, I was looking for opinions on how close you think I am to d65, since it's my first cal, and with a spreadsheet :)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/stayceejovi/123019.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/stayceejovi/123015.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/stayceejovi/123012.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/stayceejovi/123014.jpg

I was looking for opinions on how close you think I am to d65, since it's my first cal, and with a spreadsheet :)The largest assumption about your question is that viewers' computer monitors will be calibrated for D65. That in mind and, really, FWIW, on two monitors here at home I've eyeball-adjusted for color balance (based on many hours of calibration and viewing calibrated projection), these look pretty good.

We're getting into calibration forum material here, but are you using the SpyderTV out of the box with default values or with some reference for D65? Also, are you using a new bulb in the pj? Based on my experience, you'll find that red diminishes significantly along with overall brightness with age, especially past 300-400 hours. So, if you do have something approaching D65 now, your SpyderTV will come in handy keeping red relatively up with bulb age using those advanced color contrast adjustments to maintain a decent grayscale.

Dan

No real assumptions just posted in reference to others that have posted the same shots for an approximation of "what we see" quality.

I guess that I was just happy that the images I came up with look to me at least as true as the ones that prompted me to buy the PJ, in some areas better...
The spyder did it's job well, better than I thought possible.

All in all screens shots are provided as a "forum comparator" if you will, and that was my only intent.

Plus, I have never seen a calibrated H78dc3 post with any screenies to compare to the H77 and H79 ones that are rampant in this forum.

I used the Spyder as-is, no reference to any other white point other than what the software is looking for. It is very repeatable for a given IRE measurement, and the software seems decent, but the real fun starts with the XYy info for grayscale. That's enough on that before this gets moved.

I just wanted to get some good 78 pics out there for reference and suggestions.



Thanks,
TJ

No real assumptions just posted in reference to others that have posted the same shots for an approximation of "what we see" quality.

All in all screens shots are provided as a "forum comparator" if you will, and that was my only intent.

Plus, I have never seen a calibrated H78dc3 post with any screenies to compare to the H77 and H79 ones that are rampant in this forum.

I used the Spyder as-is, no reference to any other white point other than what the software is looking for. It is very repeatable for a given IRE measurement, and the software seems decent, but the real fun starts with the XYy info for grayscale. That's enough on that before this gets moved.

I just wanted to get some good 78 pics out there for reference and suggestions.Your "forum comparator" comment has merit, but you'd need the feedback of a lot of viewers to be more certain, statistically speaking.

You do have your x and y values within the hundredth and thousandth point of reference respectively (for SpyderTV factory settings) backing up those who think your screen pics look color balanced.

I, for one, do think your SpyderTV is doing a good job.

Dan

TJ,

How do you loike the Spyder? Looks like it did a good job and I've been debating on getting one. TIA,

Scott

hi there-

i am a new owner who's receiving my h78dc3 tomorrow (very excited) and had a few questions regarding setup/operation:

1. i will have two source components: an oppo dvd player and a motorola hd cable set-top box. both have dvi output, i believe. what's the best way to connect these to the projector? one to dvi and one to component input (and if so, which to which)? or am i better off connecting both sources to my receiver via component input and then having a single component connection from the receiver to the projector?

2. are there any settings on the oppo that i need to change from the factory defaults?

3. i think the motorola stb is capable of sending its output at 720p or 1080i...which should i select? not sure what's comcast's actual source is. if it's 720p, then i'd think i should just use that. but if it's 1080i, i'm wondering if i'm better off having it send at 1080i and having the projector scale, or whether i'm better off having the stb scale to 720p?

4. are there any changes i need to make to the projector's default settings? i'll be using it most in situations with very little ambient light.

5. do i need a ups connected to the projector? some people have told me it's essential because if there's a power outage it could ruin the bulb. others have said that most modern projectors are designed to do no harm to the bulb even if they're unplugged from the wall.

any other tips? thanks,

tu

I use the Oppo and Comcast box. I opt DVI for the Oppo and component for TV. TV I use 1080i with 480i overide on the Motorola.

Set the Oppo's brightness to +5 and Sharpness to off. Set the PJ to Native aspect for the Oppo and 16.9 for TV. Buy Avia, DVE or Sound & Vision HT tuneup discs. Use the THX optimizer on DVD's if you don't hv the tuning DVD's yet.

Most everybody uses a UPS. If the power ever shuts down just remember not to resart the projector untill full cool down which would be an hour or so. Fast on's from off wears out the bulb faster.

Enjoy the projector it's a knockout.

Did you get a chance to try it Tom?

Not yet, busy setting up a Klipsch surround setup all weekend. Horns are bright and brought my tinitus back. :)

Not yet, busy setting up a Klipsch surround setup all weekend. Horns are bright and brought my tinitus back. :)

Ouch, that's gotta hurt:eek: That's OK on the try Tom, whenever you get the chance is fine by me.

Does the H78DC3 have hue/saturation adjustments for 720p/1080i input over component or DVI? My current projector doesn't so I can't tweak the output of my HD PVR.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by gregr
Put in 4:4:4 YCbCr via DVI. Press the DVI button. The projector will say "DVI RGB Detected" or something like that. Go to Color Space in the menu and change the color space to YUV. Done.

This is how to get it to receive YCbCr from the 3000, right Greg? If so that's great, but I can't force my 59avi to do this. I can only change HDMI settings in it when it detects a valid HDMI connected and the only thing it detects is digital RGB.


What I just described is how to get the projector to work with a source that produces 4:4:4 YCbCr from the source's DVI or HDMI output. That is what I reported that I had done in the review. I tested the projector to see if it worked with a 4:4:4 YCbCr source. It does, it works fine as I just described.

It sounds like your question is how to get your source to produce 4:4:4 YCbCr? Since the projector doesn't have an HDMI input, the projector doesn't have anything to do with that problem. It can't ask or tell an HDMI source what to send. An HDMI source will always default to RGB when it is connected to a DVI projector. Some DVI or HDMI sources will allow you to manually select what they send to a DVI projector, but not all will do that. It sounds like yours won't do that.

When an HDMI source is connected to an HDMI sink (projector) it will automatically select 4:2:2 YCbCr. Most HDMI sources will allow you to manually change that selection after it is connected.

Greg,

Exactly:)!!! Now I think we're on the same page. I was and have been trying to see if anyone has been able to use this "feature" in the H77/78/79 in a real world application with a real HDMI YCbCr source.

It appears that you may be the only one who has been able to do this, and that was with your AccuPel, not a source most people would use for entertainment;)!!! I'm looking to see if anyone has done this with a DVD player and/or HDTV STB w/ HDMI.

Not even Optoma knows that this can be done and everyone I have talked to there seems to be baffled with what I have been asking:rolleyes:

Thanks for all your GREAT help in these threads. It has been much appreciated!!!

Originally Posted by gregr
Put in 4:4:4 YCbCr via DVI. Press the DVI button. The projector will say "DVI RGB Detected" or something like that. Go to Color Space in the menu and change the color space to YUV. Done.

I have tried this suggestion once before with a Lumagen and it did not work:(

Most everybody uses a UPS. If the power ever shuts down just remember not to resart the projector untill full cool down which would be an hour or so. Fast on's from off wears out the bulb faster.

Enjoy the projector it's a knockout.

thanks for the tips. any suggestions for an inexpensive but good ups?

also, any suggestions for a reasonably priced and good dvi/hdmi switcher?

thanks,
tu

Gefen switcher, its $200.

ups you could go from montser to hardware store basics.

tu,

If you want the Gefen switcher and/or Monster UPS I can get them for you. Contact me for details.

tu,

You have a Private Message

Scott

This switcher works for me:

http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=DS-21R

If you don't need IR control, they have a manual one for about half the price. I've also had good luck with their cables at a fraction of the price Monster wants for theirs.


also, any suggestions for a reasonably priced and good dvi/hdmi switcher?

hi there-

i am a new owner who's receiving my h78dc3 tomorrow (very excited) and had a few questions regarding setup/operation:

1. i will have two source components: an oppo dvd player and a motorola hd cable set-top box. both have dvi output, i believe. what's the best way to connect these to the projector? one to dvi and one to component input (and if so, which to which)? or am i better off connecting both sources to my receiver via component input and then having a single component connection from the receiver to the projector?

2. are there any settings on the oppo that i need to change from the factory defaults?

3. i think the motorola stb is capable of sending its output at 720p or 1080i...which should i select? not sure what's comcast's actual source is. if it's 720p, then i'd think i should just use that. but if it's 1080i, i'm wondering if i'm better off having it send at 1080i and having the projector scale, or whether i'm better off having the stb scale to 720p?

4. are there any changes i need to make to the projector's default settings? i'll be using it most in situations with very little ambient light.

5. do i need a ups connected to the projector? some people have told me it's essential because if there's a power outage it could ruin the bulb. others have said that most modern projectors are designed to do no harm to the bulb even if they're unplugged from the wall.

any other tips? thanks,

tuIf you have a TV and and a PJ like I have, I run a DVI splitter and a DVI switcher. I have my Oppo and my HD/ HD DVR connected to my (DVI) switcher out to my (DVI) spitter, one going to my (DVI) TV and the other to my (DVI) PJ. This way I can watch HDTV and DVD via DVI on both my TV and PJ.

I bought the Dtrovision spitter and switcher rather than the Gefen, it was a little more $$$ but I thought they were a better IMHO.

Mark

Hey get happy, get peppy and here's one for a lot less. As in a lot less.

http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?cat=VIDEOEQUIP&subcat=&prodClass=VASWCH&search=0&off=0&baseItem=DVIAB%2D1

Two inputs of your choice, any combo, HDMI, DVI with the output. Use a finger to flick it, save over a hundred bucks.

As asked before... How is Markertek to deal with via the net? Has anybody here actually purchased from them?

I would like to try this with my HTPC and HD Sat receiver going to the PJ.

I know Darin said he has one, who else?

Hey get happy, get peppy and here's one for a lot less. As in a lot less.

http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?cat=VIDEOEQUIP&subcat=&prodClass=VASWCH&search=0&off=0&baseItem=DVIAB%2D1

Two inputs of your choice, any combo, HDMI, DVI with the output. Use a finger to flick it, save over a hundred bucks.

Hey get happy, get peppy and here's one for a lot less. As in a lot less.

http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?cat=VIDEOEQUIP&subcat=&prodClass=VASWCH&search=0&off=0&baseItem=DVIAB%2D1

Two inputs of your choice, any combo, HDMI, DVI with the output. Use a finger to flick it, save over a hundred bucks.
That's a great price but I'd be a little hesitate with anything mechanical.

Here's the link to the Dtrovision and Gefen, they throw in 2 free 2 meter dvi cable and free shipping.
http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com
Go to the link that says video switchers.

Mark

MarkerTek is a large co. that's been around for years so buy with confidence or as I said, we can get the Gefen products also at below MSRP.

I recently purchased a H78. I know I should probably read through this thread as well as the unOfficial Optoma H7X FAQ, but I would much rather get information straight from the horses mouth (so to speak).

I am currently satisfied with my settings, but I could use some advice. I am using a very cheap Draper designed screen that came with my 4805. I am mating the H78 with a OPPO OPDV971H DVD player. I have calibrated my projector and OPPO, and the picture is very good looking, though I think I can pull a little more out of it.

So I need some tweaking advice. Currently, I do not have a "dark" room for the H78. It is in a 12x16 room with a large sliding door on the right side. I have used heavy curtains (much like those in hotel rooms) to absorb most of the light for day use. Night time is not a problem.

Therefore, for thos users who have the OPPO mated with the H78, do you have any basic tweak recommendations? Any trouble areas I should look into?

Additionaly, should I invest in a new screen? I would prefer not purchasing a new screen, but if I can improve my picture quality at a reasonable price, I am willing to do so.

I had a similar setup, Infocus 4800 and the pull down screen with which it came. I bought a cheapo Graywolf from buy.com and to me the picture is better (and bigger). I feel the blacks are better and the color saturation is better. You do notice the texture in light areas but if you don't look for it you'll be ok.