Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins! [Text View] - Page 10

Soundood

07-11-06, 12:11 PM

Okay, just so everybody knows...Danley is making up a new sub for Rubin. Yes, the sub was a demo (used at Infocomm) and yes there were supposed to be a few small scratches (which were taken into account in the pricing)...but the wear and damage shown is not how it left Danley...so they are replacing it and making good.

Also, you just GOT to love AVS forum! Rubin posts one comment about the bass after one series of tests and here come the IB and DIY guys :D! Claims that multiple drivers are better and 18" woofers are better :rolleyes: Hey, you are welcome to argue with Tom Danley when it comes to subwoofing...but I think he will win :D

Folks, it don't matter HOW you get bass energy into the room or what you use to achieve it...what matters is how much energy you get into the room, how low the distortion and group delay are and whether it fits your space. In those categories, for a one box solution for people who aren't comfortable or don't have the time, woodworking knowledge or comfort level to build their own... the DTS-20 is pretty hard to beat. Yes, you can achieve more sheer output with a huge IB woofer but that may not be practical, won't save him any money, wouldn't have specs anywhere near as good, and after all that effort...chances are he might have EXACTLY The same issues (after all, the big Velodyne didn't do it either). Hey, we could always have Danley build something custom that will literally lift the roof off if we wanted. They did built a bigger version that hit 130 db at 10hz (I'm assuming that would be "adequate" for most people). Point is, there are likely other issues that need to be addressed to get him the impact he is seeking.
Way I look at it, with one of the world's foremost experts in low frequency production his your side, I am pretty certain Rubin can achieve his goals.

SmX

07-11-06, 12:40 PM

chirpie

07-11-06, 02:56 PM

This is awesome news, thanks for following through on it. The funny thing is I think Danley sent me the sub they have on their site because it has the same scratches on the bottom of their MTS-20 product shot.

This may now give me a chance to try 2 of these in my room. :eek:

Ruben

Then you can tell them to give a new price for the banged up one, keep both, and have the concrete cracker you always wanted. :-)

FusionRx

07-11-06, 03:47 PM

With that much bass you should offer seatbelts for the chairs.

Most folks would look like this guy:

www.energylab.de/ wordpress/?p=1553 (http://www.energylab.de/ wordpress/?p=1553)

BritInVA

07-11-06, 03:50 PM

Broken link but assume you mean this guy

http://www.energylab.de/wordpress/wp-content/maxell_01.jpg

hee, hee

FusionRx

07-11-06, 03:54 PM

Yep, thats the one, I couldn't figure out how to pull the image out... Didn't realized I'd screwed up the URL. Thanks!!

warrenP

07-11-06, 04:24 PM

What you've done is awesome, and your thread here is a great testament to what you have been able to achieve. Thanks to you for taking the time and effort to post and continue your thead here. To say your theater and this thread are benchmarks is both true and an understatement

I want to take this time out and thank everyone that contributed to my thread here. Because of most of you, my theater became a reality....

SmX

07-11-06, 04:51 PM

Here is the Danley product shot from their site. The strange thing is that the damages on the product shot are the same as on the one I got. Maybe they shipped me their original sub they used? Seems strange they would use a scratched up sub for a product shot. However, the sub is incredible scratched or not.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/danley/danley-site.jpg

Ruben

miltimj

07-11-06, 05:26 PM

For a one box solution for people who aren't comfortable or don't have the time, woodworking knowledge or comfort level to build their own... ..Yes, you can achieve more sheer output with a huge IB woofer but that may not be practical, won't save him any money, wouldn't have specs anywhere near as good, and after all that effort...chances are he might have EXACTLY The same issues
Are you talking about the same Ruben we're talking about? Woodworking knowledge? Comfortable building his own? Not practical? Save money? Bad specs? A lot of effort? Working through issues?

Ummm, yeah...... ;)

SmX

07-11-06, 05:33 PM

Are you talking about the same Ruben we're talking about? Woodworking knowledge? Comfortable building his own? Not practical? Save money? Bad specs?

Ummm, yeah...... ;)

I would of went the IB way if my set up permitted it. Unfortunately, there was no where to vent the IB under my conditions. So I went with the best possible thing (according to people I spoke to) that would fit in my room behind my screen wall.

Ruben

miltimj

07-11-06, 06:12 PM

Completely understood, Ruben. I wasn't really questioning the solution you chose. More soundood's reasoning. :)

SVonhof

07-11-06, 08:18 PM

Here is the Danley product shot from their site. The strange thing is that the damages on the product shot are the same as on the one I got. Maybe they shipped me their original sub they used? Seems strange they would use a scratched up sub for a product shot. However, the sub is incredible scratched or not.
http://www.smxscreen.com/images/sub-placement/IMG_0769.jpg
http://www.smxscreen.com/images/danley/danley-site.jpg

Ruben

Did they only make just the one that you now have? :rolleyes: ;)

SVonhof

07-11-06, 08:58 PM

BTW, you are making me seriously reconsider the subs I have in my room.

I have two of the Titanic 1000 kits from Parts Express and I am considering either building new boxes and replacing the drivers or combining both drivers and both amps into a brand new box that will allow the drivers to work better and free'er (is that a word?).
Power handling: 400 watts RMS/565 watts max
Impedance: 4 ohms
Fs: 28 Hz
Qe: .42
Qm: 5.23
Xmax 18.7 mm
Sensitivity 87.7 dB 2.83V/1m
Vas: .95 cu. ft. /26.39 ltr
Qts: .39
Sd: .0293 m^2
Re: 3.05 ohm

Any sub designers watching this thread?

Soundood

07-12-06, 12:35 AM

Did they only make just the one that you now have? :rolleyes: ;)

Nope...there is one lurking behind my new screen wall as we speak (you know...the one waiting for the SMX screen ;) ). Couple other forum members have them too.

As for trying TWO DTS-20's :D :D :D :D Go For It! Just make sure you have your insurance paid up.

And that may be the demo from the product shots. They sent two to Infocomm to REALLY tick off the people in the booths around them. If you move them around, they do get scratches on the bottom. Kinda the only way to move that beast by yourself is to walk it around and hope to god it doesn't start to tip. :eek:

BasementBob

07-12-06, 04:37 AM

http://www.soundimage.dk/images/Giant%20woofer.jpg
from: http://www.soundimage.dk/Different-col/Extreme.htm

mr_alex2

07-12-06, 09:54 AM

Ruben - simply amazing! Read everything from the start, it's freaking great!!!!

I live in Miami... I thought I heard some rumbling from the sub - maybe it was you? HAHAH!!!

So, about this sub. It only uses 1 12" woofer? WOW!!!! Is it possible to just see the woofer alone? I'm kind of curious to see what it looks like? I assume it is all in the technique - enclosure?

Once again - GREAT JOB WITH EVERYTHING!

Peace,
Alex V.

mysphyt

07-12-06, 10:18 AM

Is it possible to just see the woofer alone?

http://www.okmusic.de/bilder/Equip/eminence_lab12_873991.jpg

Not the exact woofer, but a similar model designed by Tom Danley, the designer of the DTS-20.

SVonhof

07-12-06, 10:23 AM

Is it possible to just see the woofer alone? I'm kind of curious to see what it looks like? I assume it is all in the technique - enclosure?
Alex V.

Can't see the woofer unless Ruben removes the access panel or tears apart the cabinet, since it is a horn design and the woofer is in the enclosure, away from prying eyes... ;)

SmX

07-12-06, 08:26 PM

I hope this puts a permanent tear on the larger woofer is better automatically mentality.

All things being equal they have their advantages, sure, but my golly there's a lot of other things that make a subwoofer sing... (like the size of that enclosure... ^_^)

I'll throw in an apology for that 35hz crack too. :P

I never believed in that for all cases. When I was in my younger age of driving around with booming systems in the car, I tried putting a double 18 box in the back for bass. Being the the car was so small (a truck might of been better) the sub sounded like a big hunk of crap and had no bass. But once I did double 12"s it was an earthquake. Both boxes were the same style. I later got into dual bandpass boxes and did an all acrylic double 12" dual band pass sub that was totally insane. The box was made out of 3/4" clear acrylic and housed 2 Eclipse SW9122 12" Speakers (http://www.eclipse-web.com/sw9100/sw9122.html) The bass was ported directly into the car so there was no rattling trunk.

Ruben

chirpie

07-12-06, 09:09 PM

The bass was ported directly into the car so there was no rattling trunk.

Ruben

That's my number one pet peeve with car audio... that one right there. :-)

I shake my head when the rattling is louder than the bass. I know the kids mean well, but sheesh. ^_^;

SmX

07-13-06, 03:44 AM

A couple people been PMing and emailing about the balck material I used to cover the wall behind the screen wall.

The material is 100% black muslin. It's used as a backdrop for photo shoots. You can get it all day on eBay for $30 for a big piece. Since the wall is covered with 4" cotton (which can be kind of dusty) and was blue, I used black muslin as BPapes recommendations to blacken the wall and keep the dust down back there.
Plus the musiln doesn't reflect sound.

GoM would of worked too, but GoM doesn't come wide enough. I was able to get a 12' x 30' piece of black muslin to use in various spaces.

Ruben

SmX

07-14-06, 02:03 AM

Well today I did all my re-wiring for the new Klipsch Ultra 2 THX package that's coming in Friday (Today). I located all 5 amps and a monster power conditioner in a custom rack I made in the utility closet wall. The new 20 space rack is outside my theater entrance and the back of the amps are inside my air exchanger room. The air exchangers are located in utility closets out here in Florida, so I used an empty part of the closet wall to build my amp rack in.

So I took care of any possible heat and noise issues by putting the amps where they are. Also, that air exchanger utility closet is the back of my theater rack closet that houses my pre-amp and all the other gear. More pictures coming tomorrow when the Klipsch system arrives.

I'm also considering getting 7 Crowson TES 100 Transducers (http://www.crowsontech.com/go/crowsontech/3328/en-US/DesktopDefault.aspx?Alias=crowsontech&TabID=3328&lang=en-us) for my chairs. They seem to be the best tactiles on the market from what I am reading about them. I am getting 1 first to try and then if I like them I will get 6 more. I will be able to utilize the 2 open channels I have left on my Crown XTi's.

Ruben

trpltongue

07-14-06, 08:30 AM

Ruben,

Have you considered the Odyssey motion simulators? Tryg (I believe) swears they are better than any tactilce transducers.

SVonhof

07-14-06, 09:06 AM

The Odyssey is a completly different technology than any of the tactiles, more expensive and takes a separate controller to work. I have only experienced them at CES so far, but they are cool. Mr. Poindexter sells them and will have his demo theater up and running soon, with several versions of the Odyssey's.
I have yet to try the Crowson transducers, but was contacted by their rep a while back. They are somewhat close to me, but since I was never thinking of going with them, I never went out to their shop to check them out.

jmorris644

07-14-06, 09:22 AM

The Odyssey is a completly different technology than any of the tactiles, more expensive and takes a separate controller to work. I have only experienced them at CES so far, but they are cool. Mr. Poindexter sells them and will have his demo theater up and running soon, with several versions of the Odyssey's.

The Odysseys also require a $550 per year software license.

Joe

trpltongue

07-14-06, 09:28 AM

jmorris644

07-14-06, 09:45 AM

Yes,

The Odyssey is a completely different technology and it is more expensive, but Ruben hasn't exactly "scrimped" on anything in his theater so far. Also, from what I've read, the Odyssey beats the pants off of the tactile transducers.

I've only done cursory reading on the Odysseys. How does it perform, if at all, when they have not pre-captured the movements for a DVD?

Joe

ebr

07-14-06, 10:19 AM

Why in the $$%#& do you require tactiles with "simply the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet"??

My lowly SVS moves me (not just my room) better than any tactiles I've had (granted, I haven't had the best) so I cannot imagine them adding much to your experience with that beast of a woofer you have now...

trpltongue

07-14-06, 10:33 AM

Joe,

I'll defer to those that actually own/sell the system for that question as I don't know.

ebr,

That surprises me. Me cheap transducers add a different element of bass energy above and beyond my sub.

jmorris644

07-14-06, 11:21 AM

ebr,

That surprises me. Me cheap transducers add a different element of bass energy above and beyond my sub.

I agree. I bought a set of buttkickers when AVS had that promotion. Although I leave them on a relatively low volume I feel that the experience is enhanced quite a bit.

I have noticed that there is a point of volume with them that you can sense that the movement is coming from a different source. I keep them just below that point.

Joe

SVonhof

07-14-06, 02:40 PM

I've only done cursory reading on the Odysseys. How does it perform...?
Joe

If I remember correctly, there is over an inch of travel in the pistons (if you want to call them that) and they can produce several G's of accelleration.

Mr. Poindexter is watching this thread, right? I will send him a PM to make sure he chimes in here.

SmX

07-14-06, 03:03 PM

I think the Odyssey/D-box is around $20,000.00 and has to be built into your riser/platform. It's like the Back to the Future ride at Universal from what I read.

Ruben

SVonhof

07-14-06, 03:09 PM

They make the D-box stuff for chairs as well, instead of platforms, but from what I read, normal theater chairs can't handle the G load of the Odyssey.

Mr.Poindexter

07-14-06, 03:56 PM

Mr. Poindexter is watching this thread, right? I will send him a PM to make sure he chimes in here.

I read up on the thread from time to time, but I don't subscribe to it. Thanks for the PM - I will answer everything to the best of my ability.

Ruben,

Have you considered the Odyssey motion simulators? Tryg (I believe) swears they are better than any tactilce transducers.

I don't know about Tryg, but I certainly swear by them. I owned one before I was in the design/installation business. I now own 4 systems and am looking to get a 5th. I run them in 2 rooms in my house - shooting for 3 rooms but I don't know if I can get that past the committee, I mean my wife. I need to rewire downstairs to get it to work there.

If I remember correctly, there is over an inch of travel in the pistons (if you want to call them that) and they can produce several G's of accelleration.

There are several different versions of the D-BOX motion systems. The initial one had 5/8" of travel. Later, an XL (eXtra Lift) version came out with 7/8" of travel. Those were the only platform based systems and recently the XL became the only one left in the platform line as they retired the standard 5/8" lift unit. I have what was called the Odyssee XL and is now called the 4600p. It can lift 1.2 tons with 2 G's of force. 7/8" may not sound like a lot of travel, but it is enough to give the sensation that is backed up by the video.

The vertical integrated systems run from 1" of travel in standard actuators to 1.5" of travel in the extreme actuators.

Why in the $$%#& do you require tactiles with "simply the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet"??

My lowly SVS moves me (not just my room) better than any tactiles I've had (granted, I haven't had the best) so I cannot imagine them adding much to your experience with that beast of a woofer you have now...

The reason is simple - subwoofers are not that efficient in ultra low frequencies. His sub isn't the most powerful low frequency sub on the planet - the Thigpen rotary sub is. I was at the temporary install at Tzucc's where it was putting out 125db at 3Hz (yes, THREE Hertz) with very little distortion (around 2-3%, IIRC).

You haven't had the best in tactile systems out there. I have. I have also had the best in subwoofers available. Subs have limitations that prevent them from doing what tactile systems can do. Tactile systems have limitations that prevent them from doing what motion simulators can do. A great sub is not the end of the line, believe me.

I've only done cursory reading on the Odysseys. How does it perform, if at all, when they have not pre-captured the movements for a DVD?

Joe

They have an audio mode that works similarly to how it works with a tactile transducer. Their audio mode was actually better in the series 2 controller than the series 3 and I am pushing them to go back to the way it was in future controllers. I don't make the decisions there, but I like to think they do listen to me. In the series 2 controller, it would work off the LFE plus the left and right audio (either from the mains or the surrounds).

The movements are not "pre-captured" but actually programmed and loaded into the motion controller. While it sounds like a semantic difference, it is important to realize these motion codes are programmed by experts and do not exist anywhere outside of D-BOX's extensive library of motion codes. Even if you could get another motion simulator, like a Dorian or a Landmark, it would be of little use without the codes.

I'm also considering getting 7 Crowson TES 100 Transducers (http://www.crowsontech.com/go/crowsontech/3328/en-US/DesktopDefault.aspx?Alias=crowsontech&TabID=3328&lang=en-us) for my chairs. They seem to be the best tactiles on the market from what I am reading about them. I am getting 1 first to try and then if I like them I will get 6 more. I will be able to utilize the 2 open channels I have left on my Crown XTi's.

Ruben

I have owned or experienced just about everything out there. The D-BOX is by far the best but it really isn't a tactile transducer - it is true motion and belongs in a seperate class. That said, out of the tactile transducers, the Crowson is without a doubt the best there is. I would highly recommend them if you cannot afford D-BOX Technology. If you can afford D-BOX, get D-BOX instead.

The Odyssey is a completly different technology than any of the tactiles, more expensive and takes a separate controller to work. I have only experienced them at CES so far, but they are cool. Mr. Poindexter sells them and will have his demo theater up and running soon, with several versions of the Odyssey's.

They take a seperate controller and that is a good thing because you are then getting intelligent control off a dedicated 4 channel motion track. Think of it like surround sound motion vs. mono that comes off the LFE. In addition, the bass is tied exclusively to sound while the motion is tied to action on screen. Unlike a tactile transducer, which will rumble when James Earl Jones or that guy from the Green Mile are talking, you will only get motion effects when you should and will get them when there is no bass content related to it, like the waves during A Perfect Storm or the turbulence during Cast Away or swimming in Finding Nemo.

I have both 2 and 3 axis Quest (a type of Odyssee system that comes integrated with its own chairs) in both standard and extreme, as well as 3 axis Odyssee systems in both platform and integrated versions. The only thing I won't be able to show at my place will be experimental equipment due to NDA. I am a beta tester for D-BOX as well as a couple other brands and will likely get more experimental gear in when the testing facility goes live. Even if you want to buy from somebody else, it is worth it to see since nobody outside of the D-BOX manufacturing facility will have as much D-BOX on display.

The Odysseys also require a $550 per year software license.

Joe

Not quite. The software license is to get new codes. It is not required to have the system work. The license is either $500 to have CDs mailed to you monthly or $250 to download them from the Internet. The Internet download is the way to go - it cost half as much and is faster to get new titles. Win-win there and the controllers can also be configured to automatically download new titles weekly with no user interraction. Systems come with the first year subscription free.

I think the Odyssey/D-box is around $20,000.00 and has to be built into your riser/platform. It's like the Back to the Future ride at Universal from what I read.

Ruben

As Scott mentioned below, they can be built into a platform or into a chair so you are not tied to platform based solutions. As far as pricing, that is the ballpark for a platform MSRP, but integrated chairs can cost less.

As far as the Back to the Future ride, the D-BOX systems blow away everything I have experienced at amusement parks in terms of control and finesse and have only lost out on total throw and for degrees of freedom against some rides that have 6 degrees of freedom - something not possible in a home theater environment due to safety issues. Star Trek The Experience at the Hilton in Vegas is one such system with 6 degrees of freedom using a large Landmark system. That is state of the art in amusement park motion and it still pales in comparison to the D-BOX in terms of details and finesse. They are powerful and big, but a little on the clunky side relatively, so it is like comparing a semi truck against a sedan in terms of smooth ride and handling.

jmorris644

07-14-06, 04:55 PM

Star Trek The Experience at the Hilton in Vegas is one such system with 6 degrees of freedom using a large Landmark system. That is state of the art in amusement park motion and it still pales in comparison to the D-BOX in terms of details and finesse. They are powerful and big, but a little on the clunky side relatively, so it is like comparing a semi truck against a sedan in terms of smooth ride and handling.

That's good news, I will actually be at the Star Trek convention from the 18th to the 20th. My company has a booth there. We are selling lenticular posters among other things. I figured as the owner I needed to go to at least one convention this year. :)

I will have to try out the Landmark while I am there.

Joe

Mr.Poindexter

07-14-06, 05:18 PM

I will possibly see you there. One of my customers invited me to go. I have never been to a Trek convention, but it is VERY close to the open house for my new theater and I will have to be going to Florida close to then as well to finish up another install so I might not be able to make it.

jmorris644

07-14-06, 05:27 PM

If you do look for Mello Smello.

Joe

Soundood

07-14-06, 07:25 PM

Actually, Tom Danley DID built the most powerful sub on the planet. It was for military research and was called the Sonic Boom Cannon. It does 132 db at 3 hz. And NO, you can't have one. It is a moot point anyways. It won't fit in most rooms.

How about this...the DTS-20 is the most powerful CONVENTIONAL subwoofer in the world that is reasonably practical...

Soundood

07-14-06, 07:36 PM

Okay folks. So Ruben will be getting a new DTS-20. Danley would rather sell the one he has off than have to pay to ship it back. So...if anybody is interested and wants a good deal on a DTS-20, please let me know asap. The new sub is coming in a full blown wood crate bolted to a pallet so the old one would go right into that crate for shipment to you. Or...you could pick it up. PM me for a special one time price. The sub works perfectly and will carry the full warranty.

bpape

07-15-06, 11:06 AM

I got $10 that says he'll try to run both of them in the room and not get rid of the existing one after all ;)

jmorris644

07-15-06, 01:02 PM

I got $10 that says he'll try to run both of them in the room and not get rid of the existing one after all ;)

Boy, talk about a suckers bet ! No thanks :D

Joe

SmX

07-16-06, 05:20 PM

I got $10 that says he'll try to run both of them in the room and not get rid of the existing one after all ;)

If I could stand them up behind my screen, I would seriously consider it. If they sound that much better as a pair, I may have to modify my stage soffit to stand them.

Ruben

CollinViegas

07-16-06, 05:44 PM

Ruben,

What do you think of the Klipsch THX Ultra2 System? Does it live up to the hype?

SmX

07-16-06, 08:46 PM

Ruben,

What do you think of the Klipsch THX Ultra2 System? Does it live up to the hype?

Well I just got the system wired up today. I still don't have the full set of speakers because one of the LCR's got damaged in shipping and I never received it. But so far I like the punchyness (word?), detail and power of the mains. They are a bit brighter than what I am use to (Martin Logans), but I think they will do rather well behind the screen. I have really good hearing and take hearing tests periodically to make sure I am still hearing good due to the nature of one of my businesses.

Also, the Danley compliments them nicely.

One thing I am not happy about is the Outlaw 990, why is this thing such a PITA to set up? You need an analog monitor hooked up to it just to make some simple settings. There is no on board menu to set it up. :(

Ruben

YldeSyde

07-16-06, 11:53 PM

hmmm, is punchiness like the recent new word truthiness? Perhaps you have created another proprietary SMX word ;-) From what I have heard (in the literal sense) Klipsch speakers tend to be a bit bright...at least to my ears. Hopefully, as you say, the screen will help that out a bit.

BasementBob

07-17-06, 01:58 AM

Something to test brightness with is "Pearl Harbour" at 90 minutes 11 seconds through 18 seconds. The bullets hitting the bridge can be alarmingly sharp on a bright speaker.

bpape

07-17-06, 06:52 AM

Nah. I'd just build another false column in the middle of the back wall and stand it up...

And yes - the Klipsch coupled with the Crowns - I could see why they may sound bright.

ebr

07-17-06, 09:44 AM

...
One thing I am not happy about is the Outlaw 990, why is this thing such a PITA to set up? You need an analog monitor hooked up to it just to make some simple settings. There is no on board menu to set it up. :(

Ruben

I'm tellin' ya, Ruben, you really need to consider a good receiver as a pre-pro. I got my Pioneer Elite 84 and I love it. A breeze to setup, 4 HDMI inputs (w/1080p capability so you coud run your lumagen through it when you upgrade to a 1080p projector) and loads of features that the true pre-pros can't touch. I'm sure its not as "high quality" as something like an Anthem pre-pro but for HT duty it sure seems to do the job pretty well.

SmX

07-17-06, 01:26 PM

I'm tellin' ya, Ruben, you really need to consider a good receiver as a pre-pro. I got my Pioneer Elite 84 and I love it. A breeze to setup, 4 HDMI inputs (w/1080p capability so you coud run your lumagen through it when you upgrade to a 1080p projector) and loads of features that the true pre-pros can't touch. I'm sure its not as "high quality" as something like an Anthem pre-pro but for HT duty it sure seems to do the job pretty well.

I went with the Outlaw 990 because people were comparing it to the Lexicon MC-12. I even spoke to a couple people that had it and loved it that previously owned Lexicon.

I just didn't realize that I needed a monitor to get it set up. That kind of pissed me off. But it has all the switching capabilities I need as well as a real good processor with 8 balanced outputs and 2 sub outputs. The Pioneer doesn't have balanced outputs and I don't know if it does 2 subs or not. Plus, none of my equipment is HDMI, it is all DVI or component. Even the Lumagen is all DVI and component. I would need allot of converters.

Ruben

Mr.Poindexter

07-17-06, 01:31 PM

SmX

07-17-06, 01:39 PM

Nah. I'd just build another false column in the middle of the back wall and stand it up...

And yes - the Klipsch coupled with the Crowns - I could see why they may sound bright.

I wish I could, but the soffit is to close to the platform just like the stage. Plus the projector is on the bottom middle of the soffit which makes it even more impossible to stand a Danley sub there.

As far as brightness of the Klipsch system, it is pretty close to my Genelecs. They are not obviously bright, but are brighter than the Logans which were transparent. The logans give me great transparent music but don't give me any punch like I am getting now with the Klipsch. I think I finally found what I'm looking for but can't tell you for sure until my system is complete, but we're getting there!

Ruben

SmX

07-17-06, 01:48 PM

DVI is a subset of HDMI, so you don't really need HDMI unless you want the audio to piggyback on the same cable - something I recommend against personally.

Ruben, did you try out the Crowson units? Make a trip out to Sound Advice and try out the D-BOX Quest system they have there?

Hi Mike, not yet, I just read your PM as well, the Sound Advice in Boca really doesn't have much to offer. They have 2 mediocre theater rooms that are about as good as Circuit City's theater room. However, they have Meridian and Crestron there. I went there 2 weeks ago and saw nothing new in the theater dept. I have no clue who set's up these theater rooms out here, but they sure do a crappy job. They have the worst ISF calibrated rooms I ever seen.

Does Accoustic Innovations carry D-Box? They are the biggest home theater builders/showrooms by my house.

Ruben

SmX

07-17-06, 01:53 PM

DVI is a subset of HDMI, so you don't really need HDMI unless you want the audio to piggyback on the same cable - something I recommend against personally.

I always said the same thing. People seem fascinated that audio and video runs together. I always read posts by people misleading other people by saying HDMI has better video quality than DVI.

Ruben

ebr

07-17-06, 02:15 PM

I always said the same thing. People seem fascinated that audio and video runs together. I always read posts by people misleading other people by saying HDMI has better video quality than DVI.

Ruben

I think the quality is the same (although the flakiness can be higher) but the reason you want the audio to "piggyback" on the HDMI cable is because that is the only way to get the new hi-rez audio formats (DD+, TrueHD, etc.) into a processor right now. That's the only reason I cared about HDMI initially. However, I will say the back of my rack is a lot cleaner with less component and digital audio connections.

Also, I owned a Lexicon before I moved to the Pio Elite as a pre-pro in my last room. I don't think there's any way you could tell the difference (for a movie) between the two.

Soundood

07-17-06, 08:26 PM

Well I just got the system wired up today. I still don't have the full set of speakers because one of the LCR's got damaged in shipping and I never received it. But so far I like the punchyness (word?), detail and power of the mains. They are a bit brighter than what I am use to (Martin Logans), but I think they will do rather well behind the screen. I have really good hearing and take hearing tests periodically to make sure I am still hearing good due to the nature of one of my businesses.

Also, the Danley compliments them nicely.

One thing I am not happy about is the Outlaw 990, why is this thing such a PITA to set up? You need an analog monitor hooked up to it just to make some simple settings. There is no on board menu to set it up. :(

Ruben

Break In. That is what they need. Get some hours on them and all traces of that will completely disappear. It is TOTALLY typical of the Ultra 2's. They will sound flat and a bit forward out of the box but as the compression driver gets some hours on it...it will smooth out and all of a sudden open WAY up. As for the replacement...just got it (Klipsch is running way behind because of huge demand) and it is going out to you tomorrow.

Mr.Poindexter

07-18-06, 07:09 PM

Hi Mike, not yet, I just read your PM as well, the Sound Advice in Boca really doesn't have much to offer. They have 2 mediocre theater rooms that are about as good as Circuit City's theater room. However, they have Meridian and Crestron there. I went there 2 weeks ago and saw nothing new in the theater dept. I have no clue who set's up these theater rooms out here, but they sure do a crappy job. They have the worst ISF calibrated rooms I ever seen.

Does Accoustic Innovations carry D-Box? They are the biggest home theater builders/showrooms by my house.

Ruben

Ruben,

I doubt the rooms at Sound Advice are ISF calibrated. I don't know who in the world would have certified the set-up I saw - maybe Ray Charles, but only for video.

Acoustic Innovations does not carry D-BOX. Here is who you have somewhat near you other than Sound Advice. I am not familiar with Florida's smaller cities so some of these might be a distance:

Digital Lifestyles
1018 E. Las Olas Blvd.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33312
954-523-2054

Demo System:
Odyssee

Genesis Automation
1095 Shotgun Blvd.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33326
954-423-1163
CEDIA Member

Demo System:
Odyssee

All Pro Sound
806 Beverly Parkway
Pensacola, FL 32505
850-432-5780

Demo System:
Quest

Audio Vision South
3655 Henderson Blvd
Tampa, FL 33604
813-871-2989

Demo System:
Odyssee

Music & Cinema Incorporated
14330 Carlson Cir.
Tampa, FL 33626
813-749-8242
CEDIA Member

Demo System:
Odyssee

Armor Systems & Security
242 Blue Juniper Blvd
Venice, FL 34292
941-485-4600

Demo System:
Odyssee

CWB Technologies
3380 Fairlane Farms RD, Suite #1
Wellington, FL 33414
561-798-7010
CEDIA Member

Demo System:
Odyssee

Audio Advisors
2271 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd.
West Palm Beach, FL 33409
561-478-3100
CEDIA Member

Demo System:
Odyssee

There are a couple other "dealers" without any equipment to show, which I personally think is pretty sad, but early on dealers could sign on without a demo unit. Now a demo system is required. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody in Florida who has both Quest and Odyssee in their theater for you to do a good comparison. There are 8 dealers in the US who have both Quest and Odyssee on display in their stores/showrooms, but only one who has all 4 (Quest, Quest X3me, Odyssee vertical integrated, Odyssee platform). :D None of them are in FL. One is in Idaho, 2 in CA, 2 in KY, 1 in IN, 1 in OH, 1 in OK.

You really do owe it to yourself to at least look at them before you make a decision on seating. With regards to the Quest seats, there are 3 different series of chairs. I have 2 of them, the series 200 and the series 300 and I strongly prefer the series 300, while my friend Rob prefers the series 200. The series 100 is very similar to the series 300 so if you don't like the comfort of the 300, the 100 is out as well. The difference there is the series 300 has a fabric strip in the middle of the seat cushion and back. I originally thought that wasn't as nice, but I like that it allows the chair to breathe and I don't get a sweaty back during the summer.

SmX

07-19-06, 04:27 AM

Thanks Mike,

FT Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Wellington are closest to me.

I will make some calls from the list you supplied.

Ruben

SmX

07-19-06, 04:44 AM

Few new things...

I had a real low ground noise coming through all the speakers. I traced it down to the Outlaw 990 and found out the DVI input and output are creating a ground loop noise when a DVI cable is hooked up through there. Once I disconnected the DVI wire output from the Outlaw, the ground noise got lower. Once I also disconnected the DVI wire input from the Outlaw, the ground noise completely was gone and everything was perfect. So it looks like I wont be using DVI switch on the Outlaw (one of the main reasons I got it for). I am using high qualiy DVI cables too.

I will be finishing my curved screen tomorrow. I will post some pictures. Today, we filled the hollow aluminum curved screen frame with "Great Stuff" expanding foam to eliminate the possibility of he 2" x 2" frame resonating or rattling.

Also, I had some company over today and we watched War of the Worlds (the rising machines part) and the 2 kids (9 Year old boy and 8 year old girl) ran out of the theater terrified throughout the bass sequence. The older people were wondering what the hell was going on in the theater around that scene. So that made me feel good. :D

Final thing, The Danley sub ripped a chandelier out of the ceiling upstairs so now I got some more work to do. :rolleyes: :eek: :D

Ruben

phisch

07-19-06, 05:46 AM

laststarfighter

07-19-06, 08:42 AM

Final thing, The Danley sub ripped a chandelier out of the ceiling upstairs so now I got some more work to do. :rolleyes: :eek: :D

Ruben
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
something tells me that you won't need two subs. :cool:

sucks that you have a ground loop with the outlaw,
what's the component that's connected to that input?
are they plugged into the same power-bar/circuit?
running a jumper wire from the case of the outlaw to the component may/may-not
fix the loop.

hope you find a solution.

jmorris644

07-19-06, 09:54 AM

what's the component that's connected to that input?
are they plugged into the same power-bar/circuit?
hope you find a solution.

I agree. It sounds like an uncommon ground between two devices.

Ruben, did you take all of the grounds back to the same place? When I ran live sound for bands in my younger days I actually taped a power cord that ran the full length of the snake. That way I was always ensured the board and effects were always using the same power as the amps. Once I did that I never had ground loop problems again.

Another place a ground loop can occur is with the incoming cable or satellite cables. Make sure you ground them to the same location as the equipment too.

Some of that may or may not help. But I would not blame the outlaw just yet.

Joe

Mr.Poindexter

07-19-06, 11:38 AM

One of The Big Picture home theater stores by me carries D-Box. They had the system set up in one of their theater rooms. I watched part of LOTR sitting in one of the chairs and it was an amazing experience. I wish that I could afford it for my home theater.

Where is "The Big Picture" located? I haven't heard of them.

D-BOX has done wonders at bringing their price down, but unfortunately most of the cost is mechanical and not in the electronics/computer side so they won't naturally become cheaper over time like computers do. Even with that, the Quest series of seating with motion is fairly reasonable for waht you get and while expensive is at a minimum "attainable" for a large number of people if they make a committment to have motion in their theater. The chairs they come built into are pretty nice as well. While they are built by Jaymar, they are a special run for D-BOX and use substantially better construction that any of the other Jaymar chairs.

SmX

07-19-06, 01:12 PM

I agree. It sounds like an uncommon ground between two devices.

Ruben, did you take all of the grounds back to the same place? When I ran live sound for bands in my younger days I actually taped a power cord that ran the full length of the snake. That way I was always ensured the board and effects were always using the same power as the amps. Once I did that I never had ground loop problems again.

Another place a ground loop can occur is with the incoming cable or satellite cables. Make sure you ground them to the same location as the equipment too.

Some of that may or may not help. But I would not blame the outlaw just yet.

Joe

Well, it only happens when I plug a DVI cable into the Outlaw 990. Why would a DVI (video only) cable cause a ground issue? When there is no DVI cable plugged into the Outlaw, the Outlaw is silent. When there is one DVI cable plugged In the hum begins and when I plug a second DVI cable in It gets louder.

The 2 DVI devices I was plugging into the Outlaw was the Projector and the HTPC. They are all plugged into a Monster Power conditioner 7000. I didn't have this issue with my B&K 507 before and everything is still the same.

Ruben

Mr.Poindexter

07-19-06, 01:24 PM

While it seems odd, pull the cable and/or sat feeds and see if it clears up. It probably won't, but if it does then there is a possibility they are the true culprits. I have seen rare occasions where a buzz was traced back to a component when in fact it was the cable line that was bad. Sometimes a cable signal can get in and work its way through anything connected to it. The cable/sat box might be connected to the cable line, the phone line, the projector/scaler via component or HDMI/DVI and then to the processor via toslink. Toslink will not transmit a bad system hum and so you are totally isolated until you connect something else to the projector that is connected to the processor via a metal wire. Suddenly, the circuit is complete and now the buzz seems like it is coming from one of the components that completes the circuit because it disappears when you pull them, but that only happens because the circuit has been broken and the problem is somewhere else on the chain.

Just because the Outlaw buzzes and the B&K doesn't isn't a reason to say the Outlaw is definitely the problem. The worst offenders I have seen have been cable boxes by far. Satellite is #2 since it almost always has a seperate ground. Nearly all of the cable and sat boxes have toslink connectors to isolate them from the audio side, but they send that contaminated ground through the video connectors and that will eventually tie to your system.

What I will sometimes do is anything that has video on it gets toslink connections only to the processor. Of course, that makes high-res audio hard to do, but that is the trade-off to use cable.

SmX

07-19-06, 01:53 PM

datobin1

07-19-06, 02:45 PM

I agree with Mr.Poindexter, cable boxes are often the culprit. In my case I have a grounding strap between my cable box and receiver to reduce the hum. Without it it is just too noise but with it I have to put my ear up to the speaker to hear it.

Mr.Poindexter

07-19-06, 02:45 PM

Well, that makes for easy troubleshooting then. Sure beats some systems I have had to deal with that had in excess of 30 components. Yes, thirty - for a single room!

jmorris644

07-19-06, 02:49 PM

Thanks for the info Mike. The only things that are hooked up power or cable wise in my room right now are the HTPC, the Outlaw 990, the PJ and the Monster Power conditioner. Everything else is unplugged because I am rewiring the rack to accommodate the new components. It's really not a big deal to have my Outlaw do my DVI switching anyway, as I have the Lumagen HDQ to do that.

Thanks
Ruben

Mike said it far more eloquently than I did. :)

I would still think you might want to isolate the culprit. Because if you don't, you might plug in some other device in the future and the hum will return because right now, you are guaranteed that you have at least one device that is having ground issues.

Although I am really perplexed that you just have the projector, outlaw, and the htpc plugged in to the same conditioner and are getting the loop. Does the monster isolate the grounds between the digital side and the analog side? (My monster has the 2 sides).

Maybe try different outlets while the hum is ocurring and see if it goes away? I am grasping at straws but there might be a bad ground connection inside of the conditioner or the PC power supply.

Joe

jiujitsu35

07-19-06, 05:35 PM

Where is "The Big Picture" located? I haven't heard of them.

D-BOX has done wonders at bringing their price down, but unfortunately most of the cost is mechanical and not in the electronics/computer side so they won't naturally become cheaper over time like computers do. Even with that, the Quest series of seating with motion is fairly reasonable for waht you get and while expensive is at a minimum "attainable" for a large number of people if they make a committment to have motion in their theater. The chairs they come built into are pretty nice as well. While they are built by Jaymar, they are a special run for D-BOX and use substantially better construction that any of the other Jaymar chairs.
My buddy and I sat on a chair with the D-box at a sound advice in Miami.The sales guy put on X-man the plane part.It was fun at first but after a while we both got sick.I can tell you that if they gave me it for free I would not install it.I just might be one of the few that gets motion sick very easy

Mr.Poindexter

07-19-06, 06:39 PM

My buddy and I sat on a chair with the D-box at a sound advice in Miami.The sales guy put on X-man the plane part.It was fun at first but after a while we both got sick.I can tell you that if they gave me it for free I would not install it.I just might be one of the few that gets motion sick very easy

I do understand what you are saying, but I have had only one person* get motion sickness on my system and I have had countless people over try it out in the past 3 1/2+ years. I don't think it is easy to visit my house and not get a demo. ;)

One thing to note is that most people only have a few minutes on a D-BOX demo and so the most intense scenes are often used which gives a very different view of what it would be like. Certainly it won't be doing that the whole time, but like demoing a subwoofer with some massive bass tracks, one has to realize that much of the time it won't be doing anything and most of the time it is running it isn't really cranking out stuff that intense.

Sadly, I have not received any of my systems for free and I even purchased one before I was in the home theater business and I still saw the value in it.

For people who get motion sickness, there are two things to look at: first there is a level setting and usually it is set to 10, which is the maximum. I like my system at that level for certain, but if you are one of those who easily gets carsick, I can see where dialing it down to 7 would be better. Also, big video goes hand in hand with that and much of the blame is with the choppy/quick cut nature of video editing these days. They are very disorienting and when added with the motion it puts it over the edge, but you cannot put it all on the motion unless you get the same feeling watching it on a 13" screen. I got that feeling watching a kid play some racing game on the projector once and there was nothing but video and audio set to very low levels. Much like the camerawork in The Blair Witch Project, too much disorientation is a bad thing when shown on the big screen.

----
*Two people actually, but I do not count my wife as she was going through morning sickness at the time and I could just let her smell a specific brand of hand lotion and make her puke. Just the mention of being on a boat was enough to turn her two shades towards green. She has since been on the D-BOX upwards of twenty times and not had even the slightest sickness.

phisch

07-20-06, 12:19 AM

Where is "The Big Picture" located? I haven't heard of them.

There are several of them in Denver metro area where I live, and I've also seen them in Illinois. I believe they are in some other states as well.

SmX

07-20-06, 06:18 PM

I posted this in another thread recently but people are still asking about it so I figured I will post It in my home thred as well.

Anyway, someone was wondering what was the blackest velvet/velour to use around a screen frame. Most people used black commando cloth in the past because it rejects light the best. But there is something much better it is called Black Fidelio Velvet. It is not accoustically transparent like GoM or speaker grill cloth, but it is a black hole. Real good uses for It are for movie screen frames, masking, curtains, screen wall, etc.

People wanted to know how black it compares against GoM, Speaker Grill Cloth and Commando cloth so I did a side by side below.

I went out Side and took a picture of the Black Fidelio Velvet, Black Speaker Grill Cloth, Black GoM and Black Commando Cloth. They are in that order from left to right in the pictures below..

Remember the order is Black Fidelio Velvet, Black Speaker Grill Cloth, Black GoM and Black Commando Cloth from left to right.

Here are the fabrics side by side in the shade while using a flash on the camera...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet/IMG_1056.jpg

Here are the fabrics side by side in direct sun...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet/IMG_1062.jpg

They all look about the same blackness..... NOT! :D

Ruben

SmX

07-20-06, 06:21 PM

I will be posting pictures of my completed curved SmX audio transparent screen in a few minutes or so. I trimmed it out with the Black Fidelio Velvet as well.

Ruben

Mr.Poindexter

07-21-06, 02:28 AM

SmX

07-21-06, 02:46 PM

Ruben, if you want a good use for that Fidelio, here is one:

Open an RPTV set if you have one. Cover all the interior surfaces of the set that are in the light path except the screen, mirror, lenses and vents. (Clean out any dust and windex the mirror while it is open). Reassemble and look at the difference. You may want to run AVIA or DVE again to make sure it is tweaked properly. You will have a much improved contrast and the TV will reject light hitting it better as less light coming into the box will make it back out.

I have a 62" Toshiba DLP, but I really don't care too much about it to open it up and start gluing this stuff inside, too much work :) .

Hey, I'm suprised you didn't pull out the checker board again, like when we were comparing the SmX to the CP2 :D I don't think anyone can debate about what is darker in this case ;)

Ruben

Mr.Poindexter

07-21-06, 03:31 PM

No way. That fidelio is the best. I do think that GOM is an option in the comprison shot since GOM isn't chosen for its darkness and nobody would choose GOM to cover a screen frame, but then again it does give an excellent reference point since so many theaters have GOM FR701 on the front wall.

In truth, comparative shots is the only real way to show how dark something is and black vs. black is the best way. Of course, in this test it looks like CRT vs. LCD, D-ILA and DLP.

SVonhof

07-21-06, 06:16 PM

In truth, comparative shots is the only real way to show how dark something is and black vs. black is the best way. Of course, in this test it looks like CRT vs. LCD, D-ILA and DLP.

Too funny.

KERMIE

07-21-06, 07:43 PM

I hate to go back on such a long Thread but these are amazing photos. My question on the these panels is how did you put the fabric on these after they were up on the wall....or....did you take them down and then add fabric.

thanks

Updates:

These are the Bottom Frames without the Fabric in place until tomorrow...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/walls/DSC07913.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/walls/DSC07939.jpg

KERMIE

07-21-06, 11:03 PM

I figured it out....read along the way you used Heavy Duty Velcro.....

Thanks

SmX

07-22-06, 02:20 AM

I hate to go back on such a long Thread but these are amazing photos. My question on the these panels is how did you put the fabric on these after they were up on the wall....or....did you take them down and then add fabric.

thanks

In the pictures above, the panels on the bottom were just fitted for size before they got wrapped. So those wood frames on the bottom came out and got wrapped and then re-installed using industrial strength velcro to hold them in place. To wrap them we used a combination of 3m spray glue and staples.

Ruben

Mark Lem

07-22-06, 10:31 AM

Mr.Poindexter

07-22-06, 10:57 AM

I have been looking at screens and some of them have a black velvet (3-4 inches or so) surround that either comes with the screen frame or is an option.

If you get the velvet frame with the screen, do you still need to be concerned with additional blacker than FR701 black around the screen frame?

Not really. The frame will have to deal with overscan and the rest of the wall will not. The frame really does need that degree of blackness while the rest of the screen wall does not and has different priorities, like acoustic transparency.

coastalb55

07-24-06, 12:40 PM

I will be posting pictures of my completed curved SmX audio transparent screen in a few minutes or so. I trimmed it out with the Black Fidelio Velvet as well.

Ruben

Did you ever post these pictures? I checked your forum also and didn't see them.

SmX

07-24-06, 04:25 PM

My Klipsch Ultra 2 THX System.

I am still waiting on my center channel to arrive so I am using my Martin Logan Theater as my center. After one week of using the Klipsch Ultra 2 THX system, I am very very very impressed (without the center channel yet). The detail, smoothness, imaging and SPL the Klipsch system puts out is just plain insane. I have many speakers to compare including lots of Logans, B&W 802ds, Genelecs, Tannoys, etc. and the Klipsch system was the missing link in my theater.

The horns don't sound like typical screechy horns. They are very smooth and unhorn sounding (another new word) :D The system has great punch and I think I may take It one step further and pick up 3 Klipsch 12" subs and cross them over to make make LCR full range and get even more punch.

I had a friend over last night that directed allot of major music videos for people like, Lenny Kravitz, Jewel, Limp Biskit, Shaggy, etc and she has spent countless hours in studios mixing surround for movies and videos she directed.

We both love City Of God (http://www.miramax.com/cityofgod/) which is an incredible Foreign Film with allot of well mixed percussion so I picked up Tsotsi (http://www.tsotsi.com/english/index.php) which is a new similar Film but not as good. However Tsotsi had a really good percussion soundtrack as well which really showed off the Klipsch system.

My friend was in total awe. She had never been in a theater with such a great sound system and picture and it totally moved her. She said she never sat in a theater and felt like she was in the actual movie until last night. She had been in other home and commercial theaters including some famous movie producers and said that mine completely blew them away. This morning she was on the phone calling all her friends telling them about her incredible movie experience in my theater last night. So that was a feel good accomplishment :)

We also watched ATL which was a horrible film. However, the soundtrack had allot of good Rap in it and there was one scene outside a club that had some real low bass that reminded me of the War of the Worlds scene with the machines rising out the ground. That scene really made The Danley shine.

As you know, sound is a very important part of your movie going experience so pick and choose your system carefully. Before I was very dissapointed with my Martin Logan system in the theater even though I love my Martin Logan system In my other room. Before, I really didn't care to watch movies in my theater due to the lack of sound. Now I want to re-watch all my favorite movies all over again to see what I was missing before.

Ruben

chirpie

07-24-06, 05:33 PM

I want to re-watch all my favorite movies all over again to see what I was missing before.

Ruben

Bingo. That's how you know you're 'there.' ^_^

indygreg

07-24-06, 05:47 PM

SmX

07-24-06, 09:10 PM

SmX

07-24-06, 09:13 PM

Did you ever post these pictures? I checked your forum also and didn't see them.

I went to take some final pictures, and my new camera started making a popping noise when I tried to use the flash. Then made a big pop inside along with series of small pops. After that I pulled the battery out and took the lens off and it smelt like fresh garlic inside. WTF? So I need to send it in to be fixed or replaced.

Ruben

jmorris644

07-24-06, 09:22 PM

Nah, no more building for me for a while. The Klipsch is what I needed.

Ruben

What, no aquarium? :)

Joe

jiujitsu35

07-25-06, 03:36 AM

Ruben,I just wanted to know how the outlaw 990 was sounding.

SmX

07-25-06, 03:55 AM

Ruben,I just wanted to know how the outlaw 990 was sounding.

So far, so good. I been running Pro Logic 2 on my movies. I haven't really done much more experimenting with it. It sounds good to me. The only problem is the DVI switching in it causes a hum to your audio. It may be something in my system but I am no longer using the Outlaw for DVI switching.

Ruben

SmX

07-25-06, 03:56 AM

What, no aquarium? :)

Joe

Aquarium shall come, just not as soon as I thought.

Ruben

advertguy2

07-25-06, 07:42 AM

ProLogic II for movies? Why not DD? Am I missing something by using DD rather than Pro Logic II? That just doesn't make sense to me...

RolfHult

07-25-06, 08:00 AM

In an 7.1 configuration, DPL IIx is the way to go. :)

bpape

07-25-06, 08:09 AM

Yup. Sounds like you're there.

Be careful doing the subs in the front and doing full range. You can cause all kinds of cancellation issues due to all the different sub locations. Part of why you cross them over is to be able to move the sub into optimal bass position without having to move the mains.

If you're still wanting more, I'd do one in the back - though it would be visible. Maybe Tom Danley would make you a mini-DTS ;)

Bryan

FoeHammer865

07-25-06, 12:25 PM

In an 7.1 configuration, DPL IIx is the way to go. :)
Are you serious? :confused: :confused: I've never heard this. Can anyone else coroberate this? I assume this must have been discussed on AVS.

Any info as to where it was discussed would be great.

Thanks

TREVOR

chirpie

07-25-06, 01:06 PM

Are you serious? :confused: :confused: I've never heard this. Can anyone else coroberate this? I assume this must have been discussed on AVS.

Any info as to where it was discussed would be great.

Thanks

TREVOR

The little x at the end makes all the difference. Otherwise, you're left with 5.1 material and two speakers in back with no sound. It matrix processes the left and right sides and sends it to the rears to make faux 7.1 out of 5.1 sounds.

It works pretty well really.

SmX

07-25-06, 03:20 PM

Are you serious? :confused: :confused: I've never heard this. Can anyone else coroberate this? I assume this must have been discussed on AVS.

Any info as to where it was discussed would be great.

Thanks

TREVOR

From the Outlaw 990 Manual

Dolby Digital EX® and Pro Logic IIx®*
Dolby Digital decoding delivers 5.1-channel digital surround sound from
DVD, satellite, cable and digital TV sources. EX adds an additional rearsurround
channel. Pro Logic IIx converts stereo sound to 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1
channels, and also converts 5.1 sources to 7.1.

sdurani

07-25-06, 03:46 PM

ProLogic II for movies? Why not DD? Am I missing something by using DD rather than Pro Logic II? That just doesn't make sense to me...You may be confusing two different types of technologies. DD is a lossy compression codec (like MP3 or DTS). It can be any number of channels from 1 to 5.1, and is used to reduce the amount of data in order to save storage space. PLII is surround processing technology (like Neo:6 or Circle Surround). It is used to convert 2-channel material to surround. It doesn't matter if that 2-channel material is PCM, SACD, DVD-A, analogue, DD, etc.

Both technologies are often used together. If you're watching an old movie on digital cable or on DVD, it may have a 2-channel Dolby Digital track (DD 2.0). You can apply PLII to the DD soundtrack to convert it to surround sound. PLII only works with 2-channel material and is limited to a maximum of 5 output channels.

For 7.1 systems, Dolby came up with PLIIx, which is an eXtension (not improvement) of PLII technology. PLIIx can work with 2-channel or 5.1-channel material, converting both to upto 7.1 channels. Each of the four surround speakers getting an independent signal (no dual-mono rears like EX/ES decoding).

Just like with PLII processing, PLIIx isn't used instead of DD or DTS, it is applied to DD or DTS soundtracks. They're complementary, not competing, technologies.

If you configure your receiver for 5 speakers, you won't see PLIIx as an option amongst the choice of surround modes. You'll only see various PLII options. However, if you configure your receiver for 6 or 7 speakers, the PLII modes will be hidden and you'll now be able to choose from the various PLIIx modes.

Sanjay

SmX

07-25-06, 08:29 PM

Here are some pictures of the final curved SmX screen with the black velvet trimming. I had no working flash to take these shots so this is as good as they get for now.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/curved-screen/IMG_1380.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/curved-screen/IMG_1424.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/curved-screen/IMG_1429.jpg

Look how black this black fidelio velvet is. There is a black hole underneath the screen but the human eye cannot see the difference between the black hole and the black fidelio velvet with light hitting it. It is amazing, talk about a black hole.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/curved-screen/IMG_1434.jpg

Here is the hole..

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/curved-screen/IMG_1436.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/curved-screen/IMG_1441.jpg

SmX

07-25-06, 08:35 PM

You may be confusing two different types of technologies. DD is a lossy compression codec (like MP3 or DTS). It can be any number of channels from 1 to 5.1, and is used to reduce the amount of data in order to save storage space. PLII is surround processing technology (like Neo:6 or Circle Surround). It is used to convert 2-channel material to surround. It doesn't matter if that 2-channel material is PCM, SACD, DVD-A, analogue, DD, etc.

Both technologies are often used together. If you're watching an old movie on digital cable or on DVD, it may have a 2-channel Dolby Digital track (DD 2.0). You can apply PLII to the DD soundtrack to convert it to surround sound. PLII only works with 2-channel material and is limited to a maximum of 5 output channels.

For 7.1 systems, Dolby came up with PLIIx, which is an eXtension (not improvement) of PLII technology. PLIIx can work with 2-channel or 5.1-channel material, converting both to upto 7.1 channels. Each of the four surround speakers getting an independent signal (no dual-mono rears like EX/ES decoding).

Just like with PLII processing, PLIIx isn't used instead of DD or DTS, it is applied to DD or DTS soundtracks. They're complementary, not competing, technologies.

If you configure your receiver for 5 speakers, you won't see PLIIx as an option amongst the choice of surround modes. You'll only see various PLII options. However, if you configure your receiver for 6 or 7 speakers, the PLII modes will be hidden and you'll now be able to choose from the various PLIIx modes.

Sanjay

Awesome explanation, thanks!

Ruben

chinadog

07-25-06, 08:35 PM

Pretty sweet Ruben!

Bud

jmorris644

07-25-06, 09:37 PM

Yes, that is really awesome!!

Joe

swithey

07-26-06, 12:52 AM

Awesome does not begin to describe this screen. I love the black fidelio velvet -- I'm definitely using that on my DIY SMX screen. Great job Ruben!

SmX

07-26-06, 01:20 AM

Awesome does not begin to describe this screen. I love the black fidelio velvet -- I'm definitely using that on my DIY SMX screen. Great job Ruben!

Thanks. Yes that fidelio velvet is truely incredible. It is so black, it messes with your eyes when you are trying to look at it. I think I'm going to mask my wall with curtains using it above, below and on the sides of the screen. Then it will really give you the effect that the SmX screen is hovering over a black hole.

Ruben

SmX

07-26-06, 01:21 AM

Yes, that is really awesome!!

Joe

Thanks Joe, It was well worth the wait. :)

Ruben

SmX

07-26-06, 01:23 AM

Pretty sweet Ruben!

Bud

Thanks Bud, I been checking out your thread and I love your ticket booth. I'm doing mine next and will be following your plans.

Ruben

indygreg

07-26-06, 01:36 AM

what would you think of using the velvet on the starfield ceiling? would it add any value there?

greg

SmX

07-26-06, 02:18 AM

what would you think of using the velvet on the starfield ceiling? would it add any value there?

greg

I thought of that already. It would be incredible, however if you are doing a light tray don't expect to see any light up there. This will suck the life out of your lights in your light trays. The nice thing about the GoM on the ceiling is that it still reflects light enough to make the lights in the light tray glow.

Ruben

griplimited

07-26-06, 03:16 AM

SmX

07-26-06, 03:20 AM

I think I may have to invite myself over unannounced. Good job on the screen. BTW, love the sub-zero fridges and the faux walls are looking great, give a thumbs up to the painter from us if he hasn't finished and left yet.

Much Thanks. The Faux painter is still painting, I will let him know :). BTW, those are Traulsen Fridges they hold allot of food and keep it cold but they are high maintenance.

Ruben

phisch

07-26-06, 04:05 AM

Mark P

07-26-06, 08:41 AM

reaper

07-26-06, 08:53 AM

dc_pilgrim

07-26-06, 09:51 AM

mastiff34

07-26-06, 09:57 AM

Simply awesome, just awesome, great work!

FoeHammer865

07-26-06, 10:09 AM

Posted by Sandman: "From the Outlaw 990 Manual

Dolby Digital EX® and Pro Logic IIx®*
Dolby Digital decoding delivers 5.1-channel digital surround sound from
DVD, satellite, cable and digital TV sources. EX adds an additional rearsurround
channel. Pro Logic IIx converts stereo sound to 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1
channels, and also converts 5.1 sources to 7.1."

Thanks for the explanation guys. I was aware of how PL IIx took two channel sources to 7.1 (vs PL II going 2 to 5.1), but never realized or it never clicked in my head that it was used on 5.1 sources as well, such as DTS and DD to up convert to 7.1.

This is kinda embarrasing for me because I have always thought of myself as staying up on new tech and such and way ahead of most of my friends when it comes to HT.

Guess there's always somehting to learn. :o :o :o

Ok, Sorry for taking this off topic.

TREVOR

AMD RULES

07-26-06, 11:31 AM

Hello. I joined after seeing this thread and being so amazed by it!
wow. What a home theater! :)
can't wait to see the final product

jmorris644

07-26-06, 11:41 AM

This is kinda embarrasing for me because I have always thought of myself as staying up on new tech and such and way ahead of most of my friends when it comes to HT.

TREVOR

Hey, it's all relative. Go ask your friends the question. I bet you are still ahead of them even though you found out 2 years after it was available. :D

Joe

reaper

07-26-06, 02:40 PM

Amazing looking screen Ruben.

Reaper - there are more thorough answers, but the curve is to cancel out the impact of a anamorphic lense which will cause the picture to bow out a bit as it stretches (or compresses) 16:9 into 2.35. The type and quality of the lense, and the setup (length of throw) will dictate how severe these distortions are.

Besides, it looks cool.

OK, so that makes sense then... you have a projector designed to throw a 16:9 image. You modify that design with a special lense. That lens introduces some distortion. This screen helps to minimize that distortion. Good enough to me.

Mr.Poindexter

07-26-06, 04:56 PM

Reaper,

They also help reduce hotspotting and color drift in higher gain screens, which was more necessary in the old CRT days than it is today. It cuts down light loss from the edges by keeping far seats inside the main viewing cone.

dc_pilgrim

07-26-06, 05:27 PM

Thanks Mike, I knew there was a more complete answer out there.

Mr.Poindexter

07-26-06, 05:46 PM

TORUS screens do an even better job video-wise, but they create a massive audio problem at the focal point since it becomes a reflective dish on both the horizontal and vertical axis.

In today's market, most people (new buyers) go with a curved screen because it looks cool and/or to remove pincushion distortion when using an anamorphic lens.

indygreg

07-26-06, 07:01 PM

Soundood

07-26-06, 11:58 PM

what, ruben is not building his speakers? after all that construction expertise? get some very high quality 1" compression drivers like TAD's (last i looked klipsch was not using a high end 1"), some 90 x 60 horns, some 6 1/2" drivers and some baltic birch. plug the theil-small parameters into a spreadsheet to get our box and port dimensions. screw the passive crossovers (those are for whimps anyway). get some dbx driveracks to drive the whole thing with those cool pro crown amps you have.

come on ruben. you can do it. we'll all watch. (picture the life cereal commercial with mikey). :)

greg

Actually, the compression driver in the THX Ultra 2 sats is a very high end 1" Titanium dome compresson drivers that is directly based on the big Uber Pro Cinema KPT-MCM Grande driver (don't get any ideas Rubin...three of them are a tad under seventeen FEET wide placed side by side...really they WON'T FIT!). They are WAY overspec'd for home use. They are one of the smoothest and most musical compression drivers I've ever used. As for an active setup...hmmm...active THX Ultra 2's would be pretty darned cool, but you'd have to do a lot of crossover tweaking. Took Klipsch nearly 5 years of development work to get the KL-650's right. Honestly...if you look at the description of your ideal speaker above, you have essentially active Ultra 2's since they have the heavy cabinetry (ask Rubin about the enclosures on the KL-650's), the high end compression drivers and twin 6.5" woofers. You also have a horn design that has been refined for over 60 years in home and commercial use...including a pretty seriously high percentage of big commercial theater installations. Matter of fact, there is a large theatrical installation company who does about 60% of the top end multi-million dollar pro cinema installs in the U.S. and they have started using the Ultra 2 system in some of their smaller commercial theater venues. Theyconsider it the best sounding pro cinema system they offer (including a $1.5 million dollar package). These are some serious iron folks, not be be dismissed because they say Klipsch on them.

"Now I want to re-watch all my favorite movies all over again to see what I was missing before." Kinda sez it all!

Oh...and the screen looks WAY cool dude! :D

SmX

07-27-06, 12:40 AM

Hi Ruben

That screen really looks great. I just picked up on your thread and you probably already mentioned it, but I was wondering how you attached the vevet trim and the screen material to the frame?

Thanks. I used a special 2" wide velcro to attach the screen to the frame, and then wrapped the wood trim with the black fidelio velvet using contact cement. I attached the wrapped wood trim to the front of the screen by screwing the long screws from the back of the frame to pull the trim against the front of it.

I also filled The 2" aluminum hollow frame with "Great Stuff" expanding foam/insulation.

Ruben

SmX

07-27-06, 12:42 AM

Oh so nice, glad to see you got re-motivated.

I know how pictures can ruin how fantastic things are when actually standing there, so I'll bet your room is probably one of the finest ever built.

Congrats, you worked hard

Not as nice as yours but perfect for me! Call me sometime, it's been months, I lost your #!

Ruben

CollinViegas

07-27-06, 12:53 AM

Ruben, this may have been asked but...

How wide are you columns at there widest point which I guess is the MDF used at the back behind the round pillars? And how well do the Klipsch surrounds fit into the pillars?

Thanks.

SmX

07-27-06, 12:57 AM

Superb looking screen. Awesome job. Great to see some more images in this thread again.

If anyone has time to entertain a dumb question, I'd appreciate some insight. I don't quite understand how a curved screen works. It seems to me that projectors are designed to produce a rectangular image on a flat screen at a given aspect ratio. Making the screen curved would change the aspect ratio wouldn't it? Or if you take that into account and build it so that the screen is still 2.35:1 or 16:9 from a front view, then you have a curve and it seems as though it would distort the image. What am I missing? Does a curved screen require a special lense?

While I am at it, what's the benefit of a curved screen? Better viewing angle for people on the side seats?

Thanks Reaper,

There is really no benefit doing a curved screen with the SmX AT material. The SmX material has a 160 degree consistant image veiwing cone from edge to edge with no hot spotting.

I first wanted to do the SmX curved screen for the coolness factor. Then I got an ISCO lens to give me a wider picture and to be able to use all my resolution on my PJ. I had a short throw with the ISCO 2 lens so I got some decent pincushion (hour glass shape). The curved screen eliminated the pincushion because it brings the left and right of the screen forward (makes side images smaller) and the center of the screen back (makes center image bigger) thus reversing the pincushion.

I got the screen radius by measuring the distance between the lens and the screen. This worked perfect for me. I know there is a big formula to do this, but my formula worked perfect as well.

Ruben

SmX

07-27-06, 12:59 AM

Amazing looking screen Ruben.

Besides, it looks cool.

Thanks, coolness is always a good factor in my book :)

Ruben

SmX

07-27-06, 01:01 AM

Simply awesome, just awesome, great work!

Thanks!

Ruben

SmX

07-27-06, 01:03 AM

Hello. I joined after seeing this thread and being so amazed by it!
wow. What a home theater! :)
can't wait to see the final product

Thank You.
Welcome to AVS and thanks for joining based on my amazing thread! :D

Ruben

SmX

07-27-06, 01:25 AM

the screen really looks great and i really like the proportion in the room. i keep looking at the earlier stage shots and thinking how much it looks like an actual theater my parents used to own that had a cinerama screen in it.

i missed earlier in the thread where you told the final screen dimensions.

EDIT - i see a post now WAY back that says you were testing 122 x 53. looks like that is what you ended up with. i also see all the posts where you found the screen material locally but i was not able to find where you actually told what it was.

greg

Thanks. I am working on the screen wall now to follow the radius of the screen. I should have that completed by next week with the black fidelio curtains.

My curved SmX screen is 142.25" x 59" or roughly 12 feet x 5 feet. 2.35:1. Yes it is bigger than what the consensus recommends. If I went by the book, I would end up having a 62" screen in there which would not work well with me.

I sit about 16' from the 12' wide 2.35:1 screen. I had a 10 foot wide screen in there before which was great, but it is much much much better now (more movie like).

The material is SmX material and you can learn more about it here...
www.smxscreen.com/

Ruben

SmX

07-27-06, 01:34 AM

Actually, the compression driver in the THX Ultra 2 sats is a very high end 1" Titanium dome compresson drivers that is directly based on the big Uber Pro Cinema KPT-MCM Grande driver (don't get any ideas Rubin...three of them are a tad under seventeen FEET wide placed side by side...really they WON'T FIT!).

You have essentially active Ultra 2's since they have the heavy cabinetry (ask Rubin about the enclosures on the KL-650's).

Oh...and the screen looks WAY cool dude! :D

Thanks,

I got another 3 feet to widen the theater if needed :D

The construction of the klipschs are solid as a rock.

Ruben

Mark P

07-27-06, 09:19 AM

If I went by the book, I would end up having a 62" screen in there which would not work well with me.

I sit about 16' from the 12' wide 2.35:1 screen. I had a 10 foot wide screen in there before which was great, but it is much much much better now (more movie like).

RubenIts awesome aint it? I found it sort of strange how small everyone makes their screens but I think the " gurus" have some formula for what " they" like and patent it as gospel. I am guessing it has to do with seeing pixels and can agree it drives me crazy to see pixels but most folks that come over can hardly see them when you stand next to the screen and point them out

I say big, fat, and impressionable when people walk in, as well as watch a movie. When you go to the theater the screen takes up the entire wall, why not in a home theater? Size constraints? viewing cones? Blah, get out the sledge hammer.

I cant quite get a picture to turn out but there are Doormers with 6' x 8' windows back about 5' from the screen and at night time when a movie is playing and you are several hundred feet from the house it is really amusing looking at the theater room with the blackouts up. I bet the neighbors 1/2 mile away wonder what is wrong with with our mental state. I have already been informed they can hear it on calm nights

Mr.Poindexter

07-27-06, 12:15 PM

MarkP, we agree on something again! I am tired of the "sit X screen widths back" formula that applies to everything and everyone. I routinely ask people where in a theater they sit and base their primary seats on that. I like to sit closer up, so I went really big on the screen. If somebody likes to sit in the back, then I adjust for that.

SVonhof

07-27-06, 02:42 PM

I bet the neighbors 1/2 mile away wonder what is wrong with with our mental state. I have already been informed they can hear it on calm nights

I bet it is your IB sub that they are hearing!

AMD RULES

07-27-06, 08:14 PM

Thank You.
Welcome to AVS and thanks for joining based on my amazing thread! :D

Ruben

np. Great job man ;)
Cant wait to see the finished product :)

SmX

07-28-06, 12:45 AM

Its awesome aint it? I found it sort of strange how small everyone makes their screens but I think the " gurus" have some formula for what " they" like and patent it as gospel. I am guessing it has to do with seeing pixels and can agree it drives me crazy to see pixels but most folks that come over can hardly see them when you stand next to the screen and point them out

I say big, fat, and impressionable when people walk in, as well as watch a movie. When you go to the theater the screen takes up the entire wall, why not in a home theater? Size constraints? viewing cones? Blah, get out the sledge hammer.

I cant quite get a picture to turn out but there are Doormers with 6' x 8' windows back about 5' from the screen and at night time when a movie is playing and you are several hundred feet from the house it is really amusing looking at the theater room with the blackouts up. I bet the neighbors 1/2 mile away wonder what is wrong with with our mental state. I have already been informed they can hear it on calm nights

All the movie theaters I go to, I usually sit one screen width away from the screen which is usually in the middle of the theater. THX standards are what, 1.5 - 2 screen widths from the screen to seats? Are those standards only for Home Theater or do they apply to THX certified movie houses to?

Ruben

DenW

07-28-06, 01:09 AM

AFAIK a seating distance of 1.5-2 x screen width is not a defined standard\formula but more like a rule of thumb, brought on with digital projectors with limited resolution and visible pixel structure.
With DLP projectors, i've seen recommended seating distances of 1.2 or even less, while for LCD projectors the seating distance normally remains at 1.5 to 2 (because of screendoor).
Resolution is also a factor here, and if you have a high resolution projector (>720 px.) there is nothing to keep you from getting closer to the screen (personal preference also comes into play here).

So as digital projectors become better and better, seating distance will be more and more a non-issue and more to do with personal preference.

In a movie theater with analog projection you have infinite pixels, thus infinite seating distance (i.e. from 0 to anything theoretically). With digital projection (4K pixels) the resolution is high enough to not be an issue (res. is larger than the human eye can discern).

I don't think there is a THX standard for seating distance, but i'm not sure about that.

Please correct me if i'm wrong about any of this...

dc_pilgrim

07-28-06, 08:34 AM

THX and I believe STMPe (spelling?) dictate horizontal and vertical viewing angles. There are a few threads on this on the site. Generally would probably spell out a smaller screen than we'd like. Here is an image I found in my reading. Made me bust out the trig to figure out what my screen-size "should" be in my long delayed theater.

sdurani

07-28-06, 12:48 PM

THX and I believe STMPe (spelling?) dictate horizontal and vertical viewing angles.You can have THX and SMPTE recommendations for screen size vs viewing distance calculated for you automatically instead of busting out the trig. Check it out:

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Sanjay

dc_pilgrim

07-28-06, 01:04 PM

Thanks for finding the link Sanjay. I used the trig because that site didn't do 2.35 aspect ratios.

ebr

07-28-06, 01:55 PM

THX and I believe STMPe (spelling?) dictate horizontal and vertical viewing angles. There are a few threads on this on the site. Generally would probably spell out a smaller screen than we'd like. Here is an image I found in my reading. Made me bust out the trig to figure out what my screen-size "should" be in my long delayed theater.

Notice that image specifies maximum distances, not minimums. The ones people talk about that recommend minimums are based on the poor resolution (and scan lines) associated with home viewing devices. In the end, its a personal preference related to your wishes and the capabilities of your display.

JRod0802

07-28-06, 05:16 PM

In a movie theater with analog projection you have infinite pixels, thus infinite seating distance (i.e. from 0 to anything theoretically). With digital projection (4K pixels) the resolution is high enough to not be an issue (res. is larger than the human eye can discern).
...
Please correct me if i'm wrong about any of this...

Do you mean 4M pixels? 4 thousand seems kind of low. I am kind of new to this, so I could be completely wrong too. :confused:

Oh, and seeing as though this is my first post in this thread... Great Job Ruben, I've been following this thread since early November. :D

FusionRx

07-28-06, 06:12 PM

Nope, he is right.. newest digital projectors are 4k x4k projectors I think.

JRod0802

07-28-06, 06:47 PM

Nope, he is right.. newest digital projectors are 4k x4k projectors I think.

Oh, i get it. I thought he meant 4K total, but I guess that is 16M pixels total. Thats about 16 times more then my home TV. I wonder why they chose a 1:1 ratio of pixels, and not 2.35:1. :confused:

Mr.Poindexter

07-28-06, 07:35 PM

The new D-Cinema projectors are 2048x1080. There are some 4K LCoS/SXRD panels that are 4096x2160.

DenW

07-29-06, 01:33 AM

I think Texas Instr. has a DLP projector for cinema's that's 4K. Sony has one also:
http://www.cine4home.com/reviews/projectors/SonyCineAlta4K/SRX-R110.htm

Mr.Poindexter

07-29-06, 08:36 AM

TI does not have a 4K resolution chip that I have heard of. They certainly are not shipping a 4K resolution product.

FusionRx

07-30-06, 01:27 AM

Ruben,

I saw an article where someone as obsessed with detail as you, actually bought a 'powder coater' and re-did all their fronts of the components to one color.... You ever thought about doing the same? (recalling your post talking about how many black and silver components you had)

SmX

07-30-06, 03:02 AM

SmX

07-30-06, 03:31 AM

I got 2 Crowson Tactiles in on Friday and installed them on 2 chairs. They are nice, but you would need 2 per chair on my chairs because they only shake one arm and a little of the seat. They were a breeze to install but they are made to put one tactile under one corner of the chair and 3 hockey pucks on the other 3 corners. The problem is that the chair has more motion on the arm the crowson is under than anything else.

So the most effective way I see is to put 1 Crowson under each arm. My back row will have 4 chairs with 5 arms and the front row will have 3 chairs with 4 arms.

Now onto powering them. I need your help on this...

I have 4 Crown XT1 1000 amps that I am using 7 channels on for the L,C,R, Surrounds and Back Surrounds. So 1 channel on the Xti 1000 is not in use.

I also have one Crown XTi 4000 that I use one channel of to power my Danley Sub.

I was thinking about throwing my center channel on the XTi 4000 open channel and cutting the power down on it to free up both channels on one of the Xti 1000 amps.

Then Bridge it to get 1,000 watts into 8 ohms and run 7 or 9 Crowsons in parallel (which are 6 ohms) The Minimum recommended power to the Crowsons are 50 watts RMS and max 500 Watts RMS.

Or I can Bridge the XTi 1000 to get 1,000 watts into 8 ohms and hook that up to the Danley. Then use the one channel of the XTi 4000 for the Crowsons which would be 1,200 watts into 4 ohms.

Here are the specs on the Xti 1000
1 kHz Power
2 ohm Stereo (per channel) 700W*
4 ohm Stereo (per channel) 500W
8 ohm Stereo (per channel) 275W
4 ohm Bridge-Mono 1,400W*
8- ohm Bridge-Mono 1,000W
*With 1% THD.

Here are the specs on the XTi 4000
1 kHz Power
2 ohm Stereo (per channel) 1,600W*
4 ohm Stereo (per channel) 1,200W
8 ohm Stereo (per channel) 650W
4 ohm Bridge-Mono 3,200W*
8- ohm Bridge-Mono 2,400W
*With 1% THD.

Thanks for your help,
Ruben

Soundood

07-30-06, 02:53 PM

I wouldn't bridge the XTi-1000 for the Sub. When you bridge an amp, you halve the damping factor and thus the control. Since you are fine on the horsepower and output power, you don't want to give up control. I'd use the other XTi1000 channel for the center (again, you have plenty of power there) and the remaining 4000 channel for the shakers.

My experience with the Crowsons is that you want to put them under the body of the chair if you are getting too much arm shaking. If you look under your chair, there is often a connection point between the arm and body...or the body may have feet as well. That is where I put them. If you need more than 1 shaker per seat and you can't make it work with one, then I'd go to Clarks bolted to the frame of the chair in the middle with isolation feet under each chair. The Crowsons are good but they do depend on your seat being structurally very solid or they won't be anywhere near as effective as Clarks (or Buttkickers) bolted solidly to the body of the seat.

SmX

07-30-06, 03:03 PM

dreamhost

07-30-06, 03:33 PM

I noticed the exact same problem when I installed my buttkickers under a chairs leg with the dampeners under each of the other legs. I could very easily tell exactly where the buttkicker was and the effect wasn't all that pleasing.

I then tried installing the buttkicker directly to the chairs 'cross brace' and that made a little difference but still was nowhere as transparent as I was expecting.

Finally I built a low profile riser, see signature, and the difference was astounding. The entire platform now shakes and you cannot tell where the buttkicker is mounted. I have also been able to demo the buttkickers mounted into a real platform like everyone else here builds and that was even more effective. As my friend has really good subs, nowhere near yours, the buttkickers blend in perfectly with the actual bass in the theater room.

Long story short: I was never able to find a place on the chair itself to mount the buttkicker to that didn't feel localized and quite tacky. A riser application is hands down the only way to go for buttkicker at least.

SmX

07-30-06, 04:28 PM

BChap

07-30-06, 04:42 PM

Ruben,

Been readin your thread (w/jaw open, drooling) for a while. Just awesome, dude. I've had Crowsons for a long time. My buddy works there. I got one couch and one chair w/2 tactiles each and a their little box preamp the preamp makes a big difference.

I know for bigger installs they will do a wiring design - email the amp model, # chairs and arms, they send you a PDF. Some of them get craaazy complicated. He told me they are doing a 52 chair install in Orlando - some Circ de solle kinda thing -with ten 1500watt amps!

-B

Cam Man

07-30-06, 05:16 PM

THX and I believe STMPe (spelling?) dictate horizontal and vertical viewing angles. There are a few threads on this on the site. Generally would probably spell out a smaller screen than we'd like. Here is an image I found in my reading. That is a useful image. SMPTE specs an "optimum" for a 2.35/2.40 cinema screen at 45 degrees. The THX (pro cinema and home) screen viewing angle specs are not in conflict with this. The THX Certified Home Theater specs require >/= 36 degrees. See this Dolby Tech Library page (http://www.cinemaequipmentsales.com/dolby9.html) for some interesting insights (drawn from SMPTE) that address screen specs and also how they relate to speaker positioning. Constant height is even covered a bit. You will notice that the balance of distracting picture artifacts and screen size were considered way back in the fifties and still apply today. We are seeing a rapid evolution of this in the home theater as resolutions, projector lumen output, deinterlacing technologies, scaling, anamorphic lenses, and screens all lend their improvements that will permit larger screen sizes. Fortunately, digital cinema and home theater do not have film projection mechanical artifacts. Still, 45 degrees defines a seating distance 1.2 times the screen width where there's plenty of wow factor, but plenty of visible artifacts. Will 1080p get us to 45 degrees? I'm hoping so. At home we can set the final spec, but it's nice to know the technical roots in the profesional cinema.

Here are two short articles by Tony Grimani that summarize professional industry standards, and discuss briefly translation to the home theater.

Video Standards for Home Theater (http://www.pmiltd.com/downloads/Home_Theater_Video_Standards.pdf)

Audio Standards for Home Theater (http://www.pmiltd.com/downloads/Home_Theater_Audio_Standards.pdf)

Here is a link to the DCI Digital Cinema Standards (http://www.dcimovies.com/DCI_Digital_Cinema_System_Spec_v1.pdf). Section 8 is what applies to us. Table 11 is particularly helpful. The white chromaticity coordinates that are not D65 compensates for the 5400K lamphouse color (to which the movie is timed).

Ruben, glad to hear you are liking the Klipsch U2 system. Not surprised.

rking401

07-31-06, 09:06 AM

A friend of mine has a pair of these sitting in his garage. I was thinking about picking them up to try them out in the room.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/4430-35.gif

and if they didn't work, I could always go this route...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/jblspeakers.jpgWow... amazing project. I just got started on this thread yesterday and came across your post mentioning JBL 4430's today. Here's a picture of them in my living room/home theater a few miles up the road from you. I bought these when I was in the pro audio business many years ago. I have no subwoofer in my system.

I used the 4435's (9 of them?) in an IMAX theater that I designed the sound for many years ago. They were supplemented with 6 18" custom subwoofs.

Mark P

07-31-06, 10:22 AM

I wonder if I would be better off cuting a couple trap doors into my platform and installing some clarks on the joists. Would that be better even though my platform is not resting on isolators. Any suggestions?

RubenYes, much better. I am running 200 watts per transducer and barely turn them up, dont need a chiroprator with this setup using Clark Synthesis ( which are full range and I use EQing to get them down to below 80 hz)

Always put the transducers in the risers for a more dynamic feel, when they are attached to the seats they feel fake, when in the risers they are a real treat

jmorris644

07-31-06, 10:33 AM

Yes, much better. I am running 200 watts per transducer and barely turn them up, dont need a chiroprator with this setup using Clark Synthesis ( which are full range and I use EQing to get them down to below 80 hz)

Always put the transducers in the risers for a more dynamic feel, when they are attached to the seats they feel fake, when in the risers they are a real treat

If I don't have a riser would something as simple as 3/4 inch plywood under the whole chair work? With the buttkicker under the plywood?

Joe

Al Sherwood

07-31-06, 02:13 PM

Amazing looking screen Ruben.

Reaper - there are more thorough answers, but the curve is to cancel out the impact of a anamorphic lense which will cause the picture to bow out a bit as it stretches (or compresses) 16:9 into 2.35. The type and quality of the lense, and the setup (length of throw) will dictate how severe these distortions are.

Besides, it looks cool.

It has also been my experiance that on a flat screen the focus of a lens is sharpest at the center of the projected image...

Perhaps the curved screen would help this situation by compensating for the out-of-focus condition at the outer edges of the screen?

SVonhof

07-31-06, 02:53 PM

If I don't have a riser would something as simple as 3/4 inch plywood under the whole chair work? With the buttkicker under the plywood?

Joe

Only if that plywood is on isolators that allow the plywood to float.

Al Sherwood

07-31-06, 02:57 PM

Thanks Reaper,

There is really no benefit doing a curved screen with the SmX AT material. The SmX material has a 160 degree consistant image veiwing cone from edge to edge with no hot spotting.

I first wanted to do the SmX curved screen for the coolness factor. Then I got an ISCO lens to give me a wider picture and to be able to use all my resolution on my PJ. I had a short throw with the ISCO 2 lens so I got some decent pincushion (hour glass shape). The curved screen eliminated the pincushion because it brings the left and right of the screen forward (makes side images smaller) and the center of the screen back (makes center image bigger) thus reversing the pincushion.

I got the screen radius by measuring the distance between the lens and the screen. This worked perfect for me. I know there is a big formula to do this, but my formula worked perfect as well.

Ruben

As I mentioned in a recent post in this thread, my current projector can be focused very cleanly at the center of the image, but due to the quality of the lens used the result is a softer focus out at the edge...

Ruben, with regards to focus (if you can remember the flat screen), did the focus improve towards the edge of the screen when you went to the curved one?

Thanks,

dreamhost

07-31-06, 05:23 PM

I wonder if I would be better off cuting a couple trap doors into my platform and installing some clarks on the joists. Would that be better even though my platform is not resting on isolators. Any suggestions?

Ruben
Actually you don't want the isolators for a 'real' platform. I only used them because I had to keep my platform very short and close to the floor as to not interfere with my projector sitting on the counter behind my head. I went a bit overboard with the isolators as I have neighbors below me and I was trying everything I could think of to reduce the trasmission through my floor to their ceiling.

For your application check out the following thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=699283

dreamhost

07-31-06, 05:28 PM

If I don't have a riser would something as simple as 3/4 inch plywood under the whole chair work? With the buttkicker under the plywood?

Joe
First of all in that application you have to have the plywood isolated from the floor so that it can 'float' with the bass.
I tried at first with my platform putting the buttkicker underneath one of the sides, and then the middle edge, but the effect was no better, if not worse, than when I had them mounted directly to the chairs. I found it much better to mount it directly to the top of the platform in the middle underneath a chair arm.

Check my sig for photo examples as to how I did this.
It's not a perfect scenario, but if you cannot build a 'real' riser then it's the best way that I have found. I spoke extensively with buttkicker over the phone and this was the best scenario we could come up with for my application.

I would say that my only real annoyance is that the platform 'floats' so easily that when one person moves around in a chair the entire platform moves a bit. If you have 'fidgity' kids sitting next to you it will become annoying quite quickly.

Mark P

07-31-06, 06:18 PM

dreamhost

07-31-06, 06:50 PM

I dont and wouldnt use Isolators, some guru told me to use them and I tore them out of all the risers after I heard/felt the room without them.

Better yet just get the D-Box and be done with all the monkeying around.

Buttkicker never impressed me much, they always felt too mechanical. I wouldnt even mess with it unless youre going with Clarks Platinums or better

In a scenario where you are using a 'real' riser, of course you don't use isolators, whoever told you to go that route was mistaken.

For my application they were a must have as having the plywood sitting directly on the floor obviously wouldn't work to well. You need the 'flex' to have any effect.

IMHO I can't agree with the 'mechanical' feeling of the buttkickers. They blend in perfectly with the subs in my condo and add a really nice effect. I've yet to have any type of complaint from friends/family. Actually they all love the added 'perceived' bass in the room. The only real downside is they are not at all 'apartment friendly' like buttkicker tries to make them out to be. My downstairs neighbors can still hear them even with the huge amt. of isolators I have, though it's a lot quieter than when I was only running a few isolators. It's much quieter for them compared to when I had them mounted under the chair leg or onto the chair itself.

Mr.Poindexter

07-31-06, 07:51 PM

Better yet just get the D-Box and be done with all the monkeying around.

That's some great advice there. Nothing like having a dedicated 4-channel track as opposed to mono source from the LFE. The biggest drawback for the most powerful tactile transducers isn't in how they perform - it is the source. the Crowson is capable of much more than the LFE source will allow you to see.

Soundood

07-31-06, 09:45 PM

Thanks. Do you think I should throw the center channel on the open XTi 4000 Channel and Bridge an XTi 1000 for the Crowsons?

Ruben

Nope. I'd throw the center on the 4000 (just make sure you be careful, that is a lot of power for the center...consider using the limiter on the amp) and then I'd use the XTi1000 in stereo and split the shakers up between the two channels. You don't need tons of power for the Crowsons (I've run them really well with some 100 w/ch Flying Mole digital monoblocks I sell) and it is better to keep the damping factor higher than to get more power with lower damping.

As for isolation...comes down to simple physics. You want enough mass and shakers for the platform to shake thruout its' entire length, but you don't want the platform attached to the ground since then the shaker will try to shake the planet earth. They may be powerful, but not that powerful.

The Crowsons aren't suited for platform shaking...they are not potent enough. The Buttkicker LFE and Clarks (particularly the Platinums) are specifically designed for this. They have far larger engines and create much more force. I second the idea of a sub-platform with shakers attached to it and the seats on top. The sub-platform doesn't have to stick out beyond the edges of the chairs but should float. I suspect this will be the best bet given the ultra potent system you have in there.

FoeHammer865

07-31-06, 10:45 PM

As I mentioned in a recent post in this thread, my current projector can be focused very cleanly at the center of the image, but due to the quality of the lens used the result is a softer focus out at the edge...

Ruben, with regards to focus (if you can remember the flat screen), did the focus improve towards the edge of the screen when you went to the curved one?

Thanks,

To the best of my knowledge, the reason the focus issue goes away with a curved screen is due to the distance the image at the edges has to travel from the lense to hit the screen.

Simple Trig shows that with a wide angle lense (as in CH) the difference between the distance in the center and to the edge are quite different. on a 9' wide screen the distance is 8.5" longer than in the center. When you focus it for the center, the outside then is too far away for that focul length. The curve takes in this distance and keeps the focul length the same as that at the center.

I believe this is the most important advantage to the curved screen (besides the cool factor :) ).

With a CH set up and wide angle lense this issue becomes more of an issue than without the lense. The mfg's took this into account when they give you a certain throw distance so it is much less an issue without a seperate lense.

Personally the cool factor is more of a factor for me than the focal length. The focus is just an added benefit :D

Good Luck
TREVOR

SVonhof

07-31-06, 11:29 PM

As for isolation...comes down to simple physics. You want enough mass and shakers for the platform to shake thruout its' entire length, but you don't want the platform attached to the ground since then the shaker will try to shake the planet earth. They may be powerful, but not that powerful.

Hence the reason I said to use isolators. You are not trying to stop the motion at all, but are trying to allow the platform to move when the effects tell it to move. If you have a platform that is liquid nailed to a cement floor and then you add Buttkickers, what have you done? You have tied the wood to the floor in a hard way, that will kill a lot of the motion you are trying to achieve.

Mark P

08-01-06, 12:45 AM

That's some great advice there. Nothing like having a dedicated 4-channel track as opposed to mono source from the LFE. The biggest drawback for the most powerful tactile transducers isn't in how they perform - it is the source. the Crowson is capable of much more than the LFE source will allow you to see.As are the Clark Synthesis, full range transducers that are made for ourdoor decks, as well as inside swimming pools, you dont need isolators at all with the platinums, atleast not in a bonus room. I was told by the folks at Clark not to isolate the risers and that would cause a much better effect and they were right, I lost the isolation and it was a whole new experience.

Bad thing about D-Box is no HD, unless thats changed since a couple months ago when I was seeing if they had became more cost effective.

Mr.Poindexter

08-01-06, 12:52 AM

There isn't anything that prevents D-BOX from working with HD. I have been using mine with HD for about 3 years now so perhaps you looked at them a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

Mark P

08-01-06, 02:23 AM

Al Sherwood

08-01-06, 02:27 AM

To the best of my knowledge, the reason the focus issue goes away with a curved screen is due to the distance the image at the edges has to travel from the lense to hit the screen.

Simple Trig shows that with a wide angle lense (as in CH) the difference between the distance in the center and to the edge are quite different. on a 9' wide screen the distance is 8.5" longer than in the center. When you focus it for the center, the outside then is too far away for that focul length. The curve takes in this distance and keeps the focul length the same as that at the center.

I believe this is the most important advantage to the curved screen (besides the cool factor :) ).

With a CH set up and wide angle lense this issue becomes more of an issue than without the lense. The mfg's took this into account when they give you a certain throw distance so it is much less an issue without a seperate lense.

Personally the cool factor is more of a factor for me than the focal length. The focus is just an added benefit :D

Good Luck
TREVOR

Thanks Trevor...

Damn, now I have to figure how I am going to bend the aluminum to the right curve! ;)

SmX

08-01-06, 03:34 AM

tshepherd

08-01-06, 08:09 AM

Also, I decided to 86 the 3 Sony DVD jukeboxes because I am a sucker for direct movie playing without menus and the incredible video quality of TheaterTek with ffdshow and Dscaler. Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.

Ruben, you may well be the king of scope creep (in a good way)! ;)

Depending on how you want to deal with wiring, you might consider looking at a Control4 system (www.control4.com). They don't have a native solution for streaming video at this point, but their music streaming is pretty decent. I've got their Media Controller and 16 channel amp in a central closet in my house, with mini-touch screens in 4 rooms and several pairs of in-walls / in-ceilings. I've also got a video switch (www.neothings.com) setup so I can share components between 2 Sony LCDs. You could hook the HTPC into a video switch and use it to distribute video / audio as needed, the only catch being that you need to have a solution in place for getting the video around (component wiring or a CAT5 video distribution system). On the music side, C4 sells wireless / ethernet speaker points and wireless touch screens that can be used to distribute audio without significant wiring in place.

Of course you could also look at something higher end like a Crestron system which would be less of a compromise.

HTH.
Tom

Mr.Poindexter

08-01-06, 12:35 PM

I can use it watching King Kong HD? sweet

Some would consider Tualitin in a galaxy far, far away.

Something to the effect of having to wait for codes and at the time I think King Kong had just released and HD DVD was just around the corner with its DD

There is a bit of a wait for the codes since they are not programmed by the studios, but then we aren't depending on the studios for support. Think of it like DTS 6.1 - they are on the disc the day the film comes out, if they have them. If not, you never get them. D-BOX goes out and gets the title and programs it. They get them a little early, so the target for major releases is that the film is released on a Tuesday and they have the codes up for download on Friday. I personally think that isn't too long to wait.

King Kong was a bear to program. I spoke with D-BOX about their output. It seemed like every time they hired a new programmer, they didn't put out more titles per month and I made an inquiry. I was informed that movies are taking longer and longer to encode since they are getting more and more intense. King King is pretty intense during the last hour of the film and it took a lot of work to get the codes made up for it. However, they did have an advance copy of King Kong and had the codes up online before the film was released.

It turns out, Peter Jackson has a D-BOX system now, so they must be impressing the people who make the films. They did redo some of the codes for the Lord of the Rings trilogy recently.

miked2024

08-01-06, 12:53 PM

Ruben,

AFAIK the kaleidascape system is fully proprietary. i don't think you could use your storage array with the kaleidascape system, nor could you use their disc ripper to get your dvd content onto your array for use with theatertek.

-miked

mastiff34

08-01-06, 12:57 PM

Mr.Poindexter

08-01-06, 12:59 PM

Right now I am setting up a 16 terrabyte storage solution for my home.
I have 2 16 bay hot Swappable Storcase Chassis's with 32 500 gig hard drives.

Does anyone here know anything about the Kaleidescape DVD ripping system (MrPoindextor)? I have 1,100 DVDs I am going to rip and do not wish to do them one by one. Also, how loud is the Kaleidescape Server? My servers are a bit loud but I found a great place for them that is outside my theater.

Also, I decided to 86 the 3 Sony DVD jukeboxes because I am a sucker for direct movie playing without menus and the incredible video quality of TheaterTek with ffdshow and Dscaler. Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.

Ruben

Ruben,

That is quite a server, but according to my calculations, you should be able to get by with much less right now if you haven't already purchased the drives. I don't know your O/S and/or RAID controller, but many have a 2TB limit so you might be looking at quite a few network drives.

The Kaleidescape servers are very quiet. I think my one home built server I had (3.5TB) would have been louder than perhaps 40 of the Kaleidescape servers and that isn't an exaggeration but a real estimate. My server sounded like a Cessna taxiing down the runway.

The Kaleidescape bulk loading system is one of the coolest things, but it is proprietary. The drive system isn't a standard PC component so what you have is an SDK and it is up to the end user to make the software they need. I wanted one as a changer for an HTPC but couldn't find any control software for it. There are several programs for use with CD audio, but they are around a grand each and the loader costs several thousand dollars. Kaleidescape uses the loader and has a specially built PC that interfaces with it and uploads the data to the Kaleidescape servers.

In short, you are stuck with either loading your entire collection one disc at a time, hiring somebody to do that for you, or writing your own laoding program that will take advantage of the carousel and then it would depend on the version of the carousel that you have. Mine has two drives so it goes pretty fast.

eXperinet's MIRV system is going to be shipping a bulk loader soon, but it is the same type as Kaleidescape's with the same limitations. (I am a dealer for both and don't look forward to having to purchase a second bulk loader).

PM me your phone number, Ruben. I have something I want to talk to you about. I think you will find it worth the effort.

mike_somd

08-01-06, 01:07 PM

SmX

08-01-06, 04:04 PM

You could always get a scsi dvd tower that has 7 drives or so and then use a script to rip dvds and then reload after the dvds are done. And that is one hell of a storage solution.

Is that possible? I have a friend that has a 14 Drive unit. It does 14 DVDs at a time. I could borrow it and rip 14 DVDs at a time.

Please let me know.

Ruben

mike_somd

08-01-06, 06:10 PM

Is that possible? I have a friend that has a 14 Drive unit. It does 14 DVDs at a time. I could borrow it and rip 14 DVDs at a time.

Please let me know.

Ruben

I don't have one, but have read in a mailing list where a guy on there used a version with cd drives to rip his collection.

I don't know if you could rip 14 DVDs simultaneously, but you could load up 14 and have them run consecutively, or as many as your hard drive thoughput would allow.

Mr.Poindexter

08-01-06, 06:26 PM

You would be looking at around 109MB/sec sustained throughput, so you would either need a fiber connection or multiple GigE lines since that is above the capacity for sustained throughput for a single GigE line once overhead is taken into account. At that rate and assuming 15 minutes per disc, you would be looking at about 2-3 days of work but I doubt you could keep up with it easily so it would certainly take at least 3 days and pretty long days at that. There is no way you could keep up with it if you had to do any user interraction with the ripping program.

Al Sherwood

08-01-06, 06:57 PM

Hey, quick question, wouldn't a screen that has been curved to match a particular projector be pretty hard to match up to a different one down the road?

Wouldn't the "new" PJ have to be positioned at the same loaction etc.?

Mr.Poindexter

08-01-06, 08:00 PM

Yes, it would have to be located the same place - or more precisely the same distance from the lens to the screen, but that is pretty easy as long as you have a fairly standard throw and don't have a vertical offset. Offsets are usually seen in business projectors and not home units, so that isn't likely to be a problem.

swithey

08-01-06, 08:54 PM

Ruben,

I sent you a PM.

BFauska

08-02-06, 01:53 AM

Ruben,

You would probably need a custom software setup or at least a script of some sort to rip sequentially, but this may be an answer to your current data transfer query.Sony media changer (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=VGPXL1B2&Dept=computers&CategoryName=cpu_DigitalLivingSystem)
I don't have any experiance with it but it sounds promising, with 200 disks at a time, even if it took 100 hours between loads, you would only have to load this thing 6 times to transfer all of your disks.

I don't know how well it would work, but at least it's another option to wade through. Good luck,

Brian

jmorris644

08-02-06, 12:47 PM

Also, I decided to 86 the 3 Sony DVD jukeboxes because I am a sucker for direct movie playing without menus and the incredible video quality of TheaterTek with ffdshow and Dscaler. Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.

Ruben

I like the direct playback too. I intensly hate the "downloading is a crime" intro that one of the studios is using. It is amazing, I went to play the 40th anniversary edition of Sound of Music and this really hard rock downloading is a crime' intro starts up.

So what I started doing is copying just the movie and audio portions of the DVD to DVD-R and putting it back into the Sony changer. It takes a while but I still get the 400 disk direct access through DVD Lobby and don't have to change my setup in taht area..

Regarding the playing through TheaterTek I know that Mario found a video card that has component IN. So I believe that you could play the DVD on the Sony and feed it into the video card and ahve TheaterTek process it.

But if you have already bought the hard drives then this is a moot point anyway.

Joe

jmorris644

08-02-06, 01:00 PM

Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.

Ruben

Here is what I did. I went with a fairly inexpensive method.

To begin with I only needed sound in 4 areas of the house. Secondly I do not require HD video in the other parts of the house.

For the audio I purchased a MRC44 Xantech unit. This unit allows for the distribution of audio and video to up to 4 locations and uses keypads to control it. The control pads also receive and route infrared. I am using the MRC44 only for audio distribution and IR control. I send the IR output from the MRC44 to the USB-UIRT on the htPC and into MainLobby. From there I control all of the devices from the htPC. The only audio that I actually route throughout the house comes form the htPC.

For the video I am using a 4 channel RF modulator. Going this route made life very easy for my wife to figure it out and control all of the options. This allowed me to move my satellite receiver and my 2 digital cable box receivers down into the home theater racks. Now every single TV in the house can watch satellite, cable, PVR, or whats happening in the theater.

So everywhere throughout the house channel 82 is the digital PVR, channel 84 is satellite, channel 86 is whatever is playing on the home theater, and channel 88 is the second digital cable receiver.

The IR signals are received by the Xantech control pads and sent to the htPC which in turn controls the different devices.

If you ahve any interest in this type of setup I can provide more detailed explainations.

Joe

SmX

08-02-06, 01:55 PM

SmX

08-02-06, 02:02 PM

Here is what I did. I went with a fairly inexpensive method.

To begin with I only needed sound in 4 areas of the house. Secondly I do not require HD video in the other parts of the house.

For the audio I purchased a MRC44 Xantech unit. This unit allows for the distribution of audio and video to up to 4 locations and uses keypads to control it. The control pads also receive and route infrared. I am using the MRC44 only for audio distribution and IR control. I send the IR output from the MRC44 to the USB-UIRT on the htPC and into MainLobby. From there I control all of the devices from the htPC. The only audio that I actually route throughout the house comes form the htPC.

For the video I am using a 4 channel RF modulator. Going this route made life very easy for my wife to figure it out and control all of the options. This allowed me to move my satellite receiver and my 2 digital cable box receivers down into the home theater racks. Now every single TV in the house can watch satellite, cable, PVR, or whats happening in the theater.

So everywhere throughout the house channel 82 is the digital PVR, channel 84 is satellite, channel 86 is whatever is playing on the home theater, and channel 88 is the second digital cable receiver.

The IR signals are received by the Xantech control pads and sent to the htPC which in turn controls the different devices.

If you ahve any interest in this type of setup I can provide more detailed explainations.

Joe

Yes I will be PMing you when I am ready. That sounds great.

Thanks
Ruben

documentarymaker

08-02-06, 04:02 PM

SmX

08-02-06, 06:25 PM

Fauska -

That Sony changer you referenced only rips CD's, not DVD's. That wouldnt help Ruben at all.

I have a Universal remote MX-3000 that I use with a program called "DMX-3000" and my sony 777ES changer. Basically it has an icon for each movie in your changer(s) and you select the movie you want by touching its cover art. Like a mini- kaliedescope system.

You can see it here Ruben...DMX-3000 software (http://www.triplebsoftware.com/DMX-3000/index.htm)

Kevin -

Yeah, I found out earlier today. it was a good try. I have the storage already, I already had one 16 bay unit and bought another one recently off a friend.

There has got to be a person out there somewhere that can rig up some automated loader to load and rip DVD's to a hard drive. Even if it's one by one and can do it non stop overnight and all day. It takes me about 12 minutes to rip the DVD main feature on my machine which means I can do 5 DVDs an hour one at a time.

Anyone? I can pay.

Ruben

Ktulu_1

08-03-06, 08:33 AM

I understand that you'd rather have a more automated process but...

With the right case and right drive controllers you could put 4, 6, 8, or more DVD-ROM drives in a PC. You could manually load the thing, kick off the required number of DVDFab or DVDDecrypter apps, rip several at once, and walk away for a few minutes or hours. Your rip times per disc will go up for sure but your interaction would go way down. Kick it off before you go to bed or leave the house and you'd be done before you knew it.

mike_somd

08-03-06, 02:24 PM

Here is how you can rip your dvds with a dvd scsi tower with dvd decrypter. You will need to set up a batch file with command line calls to dvd decrypter with the correct switches. To see the switches at the command line use the switch /?.

The following is a sample of what a command line call to dvd decrypter would look like:
dvddecrypter /MODE IFO /SRC g: /DEST "D:\[DISC_LABEL]\" /VTS 1 /PGC 1 /START /CLOSE
or you can use
dvddecrypter /MODE FILE /SRC g: /DEST "d:\[DISC_LABEL]\" /FILES MOVIE /START /CLOSE

This command line call will rip only the movie off of the dvd with all the audio streams. You would put as manny calls to dvd decrypter as needed to cover all dvd drives in the batch file. You would have to change the source for each drive and edit the destination string to your liking.

DVD Decryptor will most likey not work on newer (after nov 05) dvds, since that is when the producer of dvd decryptor got sued and stopped updating the program. However on newer discs you will have to use a program like ripit4me along with dvd decryptor to rip newer discs, however you will loose the automated process.

To fully understand the command line switches of dvd decryptor check out the following post at digital video forums: http://forum.digital-digest.com/showpost.php?p=267316&postcount=28

You can also change settings in dvd decrypter for the size of the output vob files. This should give you a start and let you play with it until you get exactly what you want.

Hopefully this works for you, and I can say that I contributed to your magnificent home theatre.

SmX

08-03-06, 04:47 PM