Hey Sandmanx,

Im sure this was posted but I cant find the answer.

Can you please list the brands of cables you used, models, and price?

Hdmi?
In wall speaker cable?
Out of wall speaker cable?
Component?

thanks!
Will

Anyone considering getting the same amps I got (Crown XTi Series) should probably reconsider.

I am having major issues with my 5 amps. The volume controls do not work anymore on some of the amps. I turn the volumes all the way down to 0 on all the amps and I still here the audio as if I never touched them.

I looked into the Crown forums and allot of people are having issues with the volume control as well. They are great sounding amps, but they were not made to well.

Ruben

I think this problem has been fixed in the latest firmware (odd, but I remember reading it was a firmware issue). I've been running my XTi 4000 for a couple months now with no issues. How long did you have to wait before the pots stopped working?

Are you using serial (rs-232) control of any of your equipment? I found that the AMP that powers my bass shakers (controlled via rs-232) was causing a bad hum on my system. Even If the amp was unplugged, the rs-232 connection to the automation PC caused a hum.

Hey Sandmanx,

Im sure this was posted but I cant find the answer.

Can you please list the brands of cables you used, models, and price?

Hdmi?
In wall speaker cable?
Out of wall speaker cable?
Component?

thanks!
Will

DVI Cables
10 Gauge Zip Cable for speakers (out of wall)
No COmponent Cables (Everything is DVI except xBox 360 is Component)

Ruben

I think this problem has been fixed in the latest firmware (odd, but I remember reading it was a firmware issue). I've been running my XTi 4000 for a couple months now with no issues. How long did you have to wait before the pots stopped working?


About 8 - 10 months and they stopped working. I never touched them in between the time I installed the amps until 8 - 10 months later.

If a firmware update will fix them, that will be awesome. I just don't want to have to send them all out to be fixed as I have 5 amps.

Ruben

Are you using serial (rs-232) control of any of your equipment? I found that the AMP that powers my bass shakers (controlled via rs-232) was causing a bad hum on my system. Even If the amp was unplugged, the rs-232 connection to the automation PC caused a hum.

No rs-232 cables in my set-up. I still have to find time to get in there and start eliminating cables to see what is the cause of the hum. The cable feeds sound like a good start.

Ruben

Ruben,

Would you mind sharing the better methods? My ceiling is sagging now that there is hunidity in the air. I am going to have to redo it. :(

Joe

That really sucks :(

When I say better methods, I am going to use the black velvet for the ceiling panels to turn it into a true black hole. The black GoM reflects too much light for my low ceiling and it really bothers me.

Ruben

I found this thread by accident, and was immediately hooked. I started from post #1 and just finished catching up after several days of near continuous reading (and following all product links, referrals, etc).

Great job Sandman, not just on the build but on your willingness to share your experiences with us. Kudos also go to those that helped Sandman out with info, it was a truly a collaborative effort on many levels. And it spawned a screen company!?!?!? Awesome :-)

My wife and I will be purchasing our first home very soon, a small one at 3300 square feet or so. It is a 1 and 1/2 story, with the 1/2 story being the upstairs bonus room. The builder will charge me $XX,000 to add a media room/game room up there, but now I'm of a mind to just let them build the bonus room and leave it as as (with a 1/2 bath) and all the space open. Seeing yours and others DIY builds has given me the itch to try my hand and perhaps save some $$ as well.

Thanks for the inspiration guys...and wish me luck lol I'm gonna need it!

Iteki - don't let your builder charge you to put in a "media room". To most builders that means the same room he was going to build but with some wiring for speakers in the ceiling and an inflated cost. You can do so much better yourself.

No rs-232 cables in my set-up. I still have to find time to get in there and start eliminating cables to see what is the cause of the hum. The cable feeds sound like a good start.

RubenCable feed is definitely the first place to look, but it still might not fix it. I addressed the cable feed with THIS (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=180-075) , but still had hum. Another part of the problem for me turned out to be between my amp and pre-amp. Even with everything unplugged from my pre-amp I still had hum. I called B&K and they told me that in a rack system, when you have different components with grounded plugs (both the amp and pre-amp are grounded as are the PC's), it can induce hum. The reason is that the rack is grounding the components together and so are the different 3 prong plugs. So you have multiple paths to ground. They told me to eliminate the ground on the pre-amp (not the Amp!) since it was chassis grounded anyway. I didn't want to take out the ground so I used one of THESE (http://www.zzounds.com/item--EBTHUMX). That took care of most of it but I still have some that I think it being created by the Grafikeye. Another solution in a rack system is to wire all the component chassis together - I haven't tried that yet. Anyway, in my case there are at least 3 causes (and counting), and I'm still not there.

THIS (http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Ground-Loops/) is a great article on Hum and how it is created

Iteki - don't let your builder charge you to put in a "media room". To most builders that means the same room he was going to build but with some wiring for speakers in the ceiling and an inflated cost. You can do so much better yourself.


Thanks ebr...I'm starting to understand that a bit better after seeing some of the builds on this forum. You're exactly right about the speaker wires...when I asked the builder how they soundproofed the room, they said "oh we can do that if you want, but it will cost more". So yes, they essentially build the same room, run some speaker cable (placed way up high on the wall near the ceiling and that's about it. No stage, no risers, no soundproofing.

I think I can do better.

Thanks ebr...I'm starting to understand that a bit better after seeing some of the builds on this forum. You're exactly right about the speaker wires...when I asked the builder how they soundproofed the room, they said "oh we can do that if you want, but it will cost more". So yes, they essentially build the same room, run some speaker cable (placed way up high on the wall near the ceiling and that's about it. No stage, no risers, no soundproofing.

I think I can do better.

For heaven sake never let the builder so "soundproofing" they do not have the faintest clue about it. Even when you hire a Home theater design company to do your room you are taking a big chance on Many of them, because even they don't really know what they are doing in a lot of cases. It is too easy to hang your shingle and call yourself a home theater designer. That said there are some real professionals out there as well, but you have to really do your home work to end up with one.
If you are willing to put in the time here you can do a great job yourself. As to your room, I would go as far as to tell the builder to leave the room to the studs. that is where you are going to need to start so why have to rip down the drywall they just put up. Plumbing rough in would be ok.

For heaven sake never let the builder so "soundproofing" they do not have the faintest clue about it. Even when you hire a Home theater design company to do your room you are taking a big chance on Many of them, because even they don't really know what they are doing in a lot of cases. It is too easy to hang your shingle and call yourself a home theater designer. That said there are some real professionals out there as well, but you have to really do your home work to end up with one.
If you are willing to put in the time here you can do a great job yourself. As to your room, I would go as far as to tell the builder to leave the room to the studs. that is where you are going to need to start so why have to rip down the drywall they just put up. Plumbing rough in would be ok.Totally agree. Good advice McCall.

For heaven sake never let the builder so "soundproofing" they do not have the faintest clue about it. Even when you hire a Home theater design company to do your room you are taking a big chance on Many of them, because even they don't really know what they are doing in a lot of cases. It is too easy to hang your shingle and call yourself a home theater designer. That said there are some real professionals out there as well, but you have to really do your home work to end up with one.
If you are willing to put in the time here you can do a great job yourself. As to your room, I would go as far as to tell the builder to leave the room to the studs. that is where you are going to need to start so why have to rip down the drywall they just put up. Plumbing rough in would be ok.

Good idea, thanks! I'll continue lurking and soak up as much as I can until then :-)

If you are willing to put in the time here you can do a great job yourself. As to your room, I would go as far as to tell the builder to leave the room to the studs. that is where you are going to need to start so why have to rip down the drywall they just put up. Plumbing rough in would be ok.

The builder probably can't do this. If they leave the drywall off, it most likely won't pass inspection, then they can't sell the house to you. Also builders don't want you coming in doing the work before they are done for insurance and if the house falls through before closing it is still there's. Most won't let you touch the house until you have closed.

Well I guess it depends where you live, I have not checked in the past 5 years but before that you could go to lots of New housing around here and find completely unfinished, Bonus, rooms in attic or over garages.
Even houses with completely unfinished upstairs, sold as starter houses with expansion.

I'm in Colorado, and that would have been awesome for some of the stuff in my house.

I'm no expert, but how is that any different from an unfinished basement? It's not like an unfinished basement will pass inspection, either. Just tell the builder you don't care if you don't get the full 'finished' square footage, on the house closing, just mark it as unfinished non-living space. No?

Yes - it could be done as unfinsihed or "partially finished" space and be fine.

But, chia is probably right about you being able to work on it before you move in. That probably won't fly with most arrangements. I was lucky in my past two builds as they were structured such that I was able to work on my finishes along side the builder's crews. So my theater was ready about the same time as the rest of the house. I did have to sign an insurance waiver, however.

Yes - it could be done as unfinsihed or "partially finished" space and be fine.

But, chia is probably right about you being able to work on it before you move in. That probably won't fly with most arrangements. I was lucky in my past two builds as they were structured such that I was able to work on my finishes along side the builder's crews. So my theater was ready about the same time as the rest of the house. I did have to sign an insurance waiver, however.

Thanks for the replies everyone...I'll be sure to inquire with the builder about the possibility of leaving the room unfinished. I wouldn't really need to work on it while the house was being built, I still have much to learn about the construction process. I think with the right tools and a few knowledgeable hands I could really take this project on. It wouldn't have to be all at once, and in fact financially it probably wouldn't be practical to tackle it all at once without going into more debt.

I can see myself taking the year to do it right and on a budget. Luckily, I work for a 4 star hotel in the IT department, and I've been helping people with their PCs for years at no charge. Hopefully this goodwill may earn me an afternoon or two of free or inexpensive labor from some of our Engineering staff (electrical, plumbing, evern sheetrock/painting) that I've assisted in the past.

I can keep my old 50" Sony Wega, Onkyo 602, Mirage S10 sub and Athena S.5 bookshelves in the downstairs living room until the HT is done. I will be replacing all of that for the HT, but I don't want to go without for a year, nor do I want to buy new 1 year before I need it and miss out on newer features, price cuts, etc.

I don't want to hijack Sandman's thread, so back to lurk mode for me :-) I'll open a thread of my own when I'm ready to start serious planning.

Well, this weekend I made some time to troubleshoot the hum in my system. When I first wired my system a year ago, there was no hum, then later on a hum mysteriously appeared. So I found the problem. It was a second powered Velodyne DD18 sub I had in the back of my theater.

The RCA wire was plugged in the sub and into the 2nd sub output on the back of the Outlaw. Once I unplugged the 2nd sub, the hum went away. The hum sound wasn't coming from the sub itself, it was just a ground issue caused by connecting an RCA cable to my 2nd sub.

So everything is back to normal now, besides my Crown XTI's not working properly. I spent half the day trying to figure out how to update the firmware on the amps because for some reason the System Arch. software was not seeing any of my amps via USB. So after trying every amp and Googling half the day, I learned that if the firmware version in the XTi's are lower than a certain version, the System Arch. software will not see the amps to do the firmware update.

So I looked at my firmware version on the XTi's and it said 0.00.00.1 BC (Before Christ) :D. So now I had to find the older firmware updater that Crown use to use. So after trying to find that for another couple hours, I found out it comes in the System Arch. software zipped folder, DOH.

So I finally got all 5 of my XTi's up to the latest firmware and the channels are still not working. Silly me, I was hoping the firmware update would reset some internal settings and fix the pods problem, but it didn't.

So I guess I will call Crown support department tomorrow and see if they can make any DIY reccomendations for repair or if possible send me some new face plates with new pods.

Ruben

Doing it all over again, would you still use the XTIs, or would you use more conventional pro amps with appropriate external processing (DSP) as needed (xover, eq, etc.). Relying on the PC has made me a bit nervous, but it should really be a set and forget effort. I am drawn to the nice front panels and GUI of some of the external DSP and xover boxes.

I am in the decision making process and in need of 6 XTIs (5 XTI 1000s for LCRs and surrounds; and a XTI4000 for the subs).

db

Doing it all over again, would you still use the XTIs, or would you use more conventional pro amps with appropriate external processing (DSP) as needed (xover, eq, etc.). Relying on the PC has made me a bit nervous, but it should really be a set and forget effort. I am drawn to the nice front panels and GUI of some of the external DSP and xover boxes.

I am in the decision making process and in need of 6 XTIs (5 XTI 1000s for LCRs and surrounds; and a XTI4000 for the subs).

db

The amps were good when they worked. I just sent all 5 back to Crown today for repair. Lets see if they get them to the latest working state. Crown customer service was great they emailed me overnight UPS labels to ship the 5 amps to them and will have them fixed or replaced within 24 hours they are saying.

Once I get them back, I will let you know how I like them. I am starting to thnk I never heard them in a full working state.

Why do you need 5 XTi's for the LCR's and Surrounds? Thats 10 channels. Do you have 4 mains or 6 surrounds?

Ruben

You're making me nervous about the XTIs.

Each of the LCRs is BiAmped, that's 6 channels; then 4 surrounds = 10 channels.

(plus the subs).

db

That really sucks :(

When I say better methods, I am going to use the black velvet for the ceiling panels to turn it into a true black hole. The black GoM reflects too much light for my low ceiling and it really bothers me.

Ruben

So you would do the exact same procedure that you outlined here before, except use the Fidelio Black Velvet instead of black GOM?

You're making me nervous about the XTIs.

Each of the LCRs is BiAmped, that's 6 channels; then 4 surrounds = 10 channels.

(plus the subs).

db

Crown got my amps in today and repaired 3 of them and are overnighting them back to me so I have them tomorrow. They are overnighting the other 2 tomorrow as they said the repair issues were more involved.

That's some fast ass service.

Ruben

Crown got my amps in today and repaired 3 of them and are overnighting them back to me so I have them tomorrow. They are overnighting the other 2 tomorrow as they said the repair issues were more involved.

That's some fast ass service.

Ruben

I got my Crowns installed and they are all working fine now. Hopefully they stay working from here on.

Ruben

I'm pretty sure thats what he is talking about. He just did a theater with BocaPimp and thats the method they use I believe.

So you would do the exact same procedure that you outlined here before, except use the Fidelio Black Velvet instead of black GOM?

When I say better methods, I am going to use the black velvet for the ceiling panels to turn it into a true black hole. The black GoM reflects too much light for my low ceiling and it really bothers me.

Be careful that you don't make the room too dead in the highs. Velvet across the entire ceiling will suck out quite a bit of the highs.

Wonderful thread Sandman! Can you give us an update on the final pieces of equipment with prices that are in your theater? I'm putting together a budget for my own first HT to be modeled after your own and this info would be a great help.

Does this guy own SmX Theater Solutions or something?

It's where SmX started! He turned it into a company....

Bud

What did he do before SmX? One hell of a home theater he's built.

What did he do before SmX? One hell of a home theater he's built.

:D:D:D

Though it will take some time, read his thread. You'll get some clues as to what business Sandman was/is in outside of SMX.

By the way Sandman, I remember reading that you were planning on replacing your GOM ceiling panels with the Fidelio black velvet. Did that ever happen?

Just a quick note of thanks, I have been lurking here reading........and reading..........and reading. I have also been reading some of the other notable theater builds like Poindexter's, Art's and so on.

Your thread has offered so much detail and documentation(success and failure) that I just wanted to thank you for your time and effort.

what camera do you use?

I got a couple PMs and emails from guys asking me what I was using to trim out my SmX screen frame. What I'm using for the screen trim is Black Fidelio Velvet. This stuff Is the blackest of black your going to get in any Velvet, Velour, Duvetyne, Felt, Suede, etc. This material is like a black hole outside in Floridas Bright Sun. I took some pictures of it outdoors on a bright sunny day out here in Florida. To get an idea how much light is hitting it, that is a Dark Purple Feather on the Fidelio velvet that is being washed out by the bright sun.

I ordered my Fidelio Velvet from HERE (http://www.bymichelle.com/fidelio.html) These are the only people I am aware of that carry it. They did a great packing job and sent me a large complimentary purple feather with the order :D

The back of the material is a dark black as well, so you can see how well of a job the Fidelio Velvet does rejecting light. I don't know of any projector that is more powerful than the sun. :)


http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09912.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09913.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09915.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09918.jpg

These last 2 shots are extreme close ups showing the lint on it.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09921.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09922.jpg

what camera do you use?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7940326&highlight=rebel#post7940326

Rebel XT.

Suhweet! I was just on the verge of getting some crap velvet locally when Jeremy N. reminded me of Sandman's post. Just ordered 4 yds from the Millinery. Thanks again Ruben!

Joann's supposidly sell JB Fidelio Velvet but never found it on line or seen a SKU.

Joann's supposidly sell JB Fidelio Velvet but never found it on line or seen a SKU.Joann hasn't setup shop in the Great White North to my knowledge. The local equivalents don't have much in the way of velvet either. The one good sample I did find locally was $60/yd. :eek:

Joann's supposidly sell JB Fidelio Velvet but never found it on line or seen a SKU.
Yes, JoAnn's does sell fidelio.
Every color but black, they can not order black either.
I went to 3 local JoAnn's with the same result.
In each store in each catalog the black has a huge X through it under which it says "Not Available".
I finally found it at a local mom and pop fabric outlet.
The price was no less then online but, I saved shipping.
The masking cost as much as the frame material.
:rolleyes:

Suhweet! I was just on the verge of getting some crap velvet locally when Jeremy N. reminded me of Sandman's post. Just ordered 4 yds from the Millinery. Thanks again Ruben!

Craig...

Where did you check locally? The Fabricland on Rebecca had nothing to choose from but I went to Hamilton on Ottawa Street and found lots of Velvet that I thought looked pretty decent, I didn't buy, I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger, but the Fidelio Velvet online from the states seemed a little cost prohibative for me after shipping and everything.

Though if my theatre looked like yours I imagine I wouldn't let the cost of a little velvet bother me :)

that's a nasty setup. and i mean nasty in the good way.
if i'm ever in your area, can i stop in to see what it looks like in person?

jeremy

Hi Folks,

I took some pictures in the theater last night. I am still doing some work on the room, like curving the screen wall to follow the screen, finish trimming the column covers, modify my projector hush box to accomodate the Isco lens, find some damn step lights that fit and some other little odds and ends.

Here are some pictures for the people that have been asking...Ruben

thank you. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7940326&highlight=rebel#post7940326

Rebel XT.

Ruben,
Congrats on the October HT/AV Interiors mag spread. Looks great there, but doesn't convey all the spectacular work and creative solutions you personally invested in this creation (and shared with us). Hope to finally have my SmX screen up soon after lots of upgrades to my room, many inspired by you. I hope the article brings you lots of screen sales.
JV

Ruben,
Congrats on the October HT/AV Interiors mag spread. Looks great there, but doesn't convey all the spectacular work and creative solutions you personally invested in this creation (and shared with us). Hope to finally have my SmX screen up soon after lots of upgrades to my room, many inspired by you. I hope the article brings you lots of screen sales.
JV

Link? Would love to see the spread!

Ruben,
Congrats on the October HT/AV Interiors mag spread. Looks great there, but doesn't convey all the spectacular work and creative solutions you personally invested in this creation (and shared with us). Hope to finally have my SmX screen up soon after lots of upgrades to my room, many inspired by you. I hope the article brings you lots of screen sales.
JV

Thanks! I just heard about this 15 minutes ago from someone else. The magazine is not on shelves yet here at Barnes and Noble nor Borders here in Florida. I heard it is in the October issue of Home Theater Magazine with Halle Berry on the cover. It is also coming out in some other magazine I mentioned earlier in this thread.

I plugged as many people I could :D including the Mecca home AVS, Brian Pape, Ryan Kramer (Chirpie), Green Glue, Cinemar and a few others (including SmX ;) ). Hopefully everyone made it through the editors cut.

I have to thank everyone here on AVS that inspired me to build this theater and start a great company from it.

Can't wait to see it.

Thanks for the heads up!
Ruben

Congrats on the article...

Hmm, now I have to keep looking in the mailbox to see if I got the latest issue of HT mag. What was the other one Ruben? I don't remember and really don't want to go through 110 pages of this thread to find it.... :)

Yeah, congrats Ruben... I just found it on the shelves the other day. Well deserved but it should have been a full featured spread (no pun intended). :D

Read it last night. Good article, but does not even graze the surface of what you were able to create. Bpape and green glue made the cut, I think the others were edited out. Oh, the SmX reference made it also, but it did not sound like it was your company. Nothing like a little free publicity! Congrats.

Hmm, now I have to keep looking in the mailbox to see if I got the latest issue of HT mag. What was the other one Ruben? I don't remember and really don't want to go through 110 pages of this thread to find it.... :)

Best Magazine.

Ruben

Congrats on the article...

Thanks!

Ruben

It's the October Issue of Home Theater magazine (has a yellow cover with Halle Berry on it). It was featured the Audio Videos Interiors section.

They kind of switched the wording around. I am not a Star Wars fan and I didn't do my star ceiling because I like Star Wars :D. I actually almost hung myself through the last few Star Wars that came out. Star Wars was so much better when I was 7 - 12 years old. Trying to watch it now is like watching water boil for me :)

All and all, I guess they covered what they could in the space they had allocated for it.

My next home theater I build will be on the cover (hopefully) :D

Ruben

Ruben,

Nice to see a HT build I have grown with in major publication. One of the first that I've seen them mentioning other inflences other than HT Magazine (who uses them as an influence anyway?). Some good kudos to AVS, GG, Bryan, and of course SMX. It a shame they didn't showcase your HT more as it is one of the best DIY HT's I've had previlege of following.

Look forward to seeing more of the other great AVS builds in the Mag.....such as Buds (Chinadog), Craigs (strange_view), Jasons (Jikkjack), Mike (Zinema), Ronnie (ronnie_jackson), Steve (scaesare) and Steve(SWithey)...............and of course Jeffs (BIGmouthinDC).

Sorry if I didn't mention your build - your all heros and have been an inspiration now and always to me.

Cheers,
Mark

Yeah,what they said, Ruben. That article didn't do your build any justice. Congrats.

let me add my $0.02. I ripped off so many of your ideas, its ridiculous. Thanks for the inspiration. And, I agree, the article did not do it justice. But we, we know the truth!!! ;)

Dang... day late and dollar short. Finally got to that section of the magazine and was surprised to see a name and pictures that I recognized. Congrats Ruben on the article.

Ruben,

Congratulations on the recognition and the article. Glad to see you’re getting some press for your exceptional theater and great company (SMX).

All the best
Calvin

Ruben,
Stash back a copy and send it with my screen, cant get a copy where I am

on a business trip and needed some reading material. Lo and behold what do I see, a theatre I watched progress. Congrats!!

Good product plugs and people plugs too.

I just finished going through the whole thread. Envy barely scratches the surface! Seriously, your theater is my favorite out of the whole forum that I have seen, and the fact that you did it all with your own hands makes it even more special! Outstanding job, hopefully one day I will have a theater even half as nice as yours.

Well Ruben,

It's been a while since I posted in this thread but I thought it was time to drop you a message. I have been kind of waiting for this post. And the time is right.

Your thread became one of the most watched threads on the whole forum. I know that way back when you were hoping it was going to be you that posted the 1000th post on your thread but somehow I beat you to it. Well, here I am posting MY 1000th post here on your thread. :D (I can't wait to see what I get for 1000 posts!)

I was one of the first people to visit your thread and I watched as you built your theater. Doing some things right and doing some things wrong. And then redoing the things that you did wrong. And all along sharing it all with us.

We all learned a LOT from you and we also, through your thread, learned a LOT from each other. We also gained some good friends through your thread and your efforts.

Many of us, again thanks to you, took some of your ideas and used them in our own theaters. I for one used your stage design and your light tray design.

I was the first guy to purchase your new screen material way before you even had thoughts about a company. I still love the material and could not be more happier about it. Although, I am putting my order in for a frame!! :)

I just wanted to give you a big thanks for making the last 2 years of building a theater one of the most enjoyable projects that I have ever undertaken. I would never have developed the level of theater that I ended up with had it not been for the great example that you set.

I just wanted, on my 1000th post, to say...... THANKS!!!

Joe

WhooHoo!!!!

I am an AVS Special Member now!!!! :D:D:D:D

Joe

WhooHoo!!!!

I am an AVS Special Member now!!!! :D:D:D:D

Joe

Yea, but you haven't figured out how to write your own ticket.

Nice to see you got a mention in the magazine. This was the thread that got me into the idea of building my own theater. Or should I say, got me into the idea of being able to do it myself. What I thought was daunting seemed do-able after this thread.

Congrats!

Wasn't sure if this had been mentioned:

SMX mentioned in Electronic House (http://www.electronichouse.com/article/smx_weaves_together_new_projection_screen_solution/C157)

Like Strange Brew above and a lot of people on here, I liberally "borrowed" HAAHHA a ton of ideas from Sandmans. I mean my stage is pretty much an exact copy and of course the centre piece is the SMX Screen.

Congrats on the magazine article. Cant seem to find one up here in Edmonton

Ryan

Well Ruben,

It's been a while since I posted in this thread but I thought it was time to drop you a message. I have been kind of waiting for this post. And the time is right.

Your thread became one of the most watched threads on the whole forum. I know that way back when you were hoping it was going to be you that posted the 1000th post on your thread but somehow I beat you to it. Well, here I am posting MY 1000th post here on your thread. :D (I can't wait to see what I get for 1000 posts!)

I was one of the first people to visit your thread and I watched as you built your theater. Doing some things right and doing some things wrong. And then redoing the things that you did wrong. And all along sharing it all with us.

We all learned a LOT from you and we also, through your thread, learned a LOT from each other. We also gained some good friends through your thread and your efforts.

Many of us, again thanks to you, took some of your ideas and used them in our own theaters. I for one used your stage design and your light tray design.

I was the first guy to purchase your new screen material way before you even had thoughts about a company. I still love the material and could not be more happier about it. Although, I am putting my order in for a frame!! :)

I just wanted to give you a big thanks for making the last 2 years of building a theater one of the most enjoyable projects that I have ever undertaken. I would never have developed the level of theater that I ended up with had it not been for the great example that you set.

I just wanted, on my 1000th post, to say...... THANKS!!!

Joe

Thanks Joe, CONGATULATIONS!!!!. Yes it is true, you were the first SmX customer (besides myself) :D
Thanks for making your 1,000th post in my thread. I wish I could be a little more active here myself except I have been exceptionally busy for the past few months.

You're welcomed. I need to thank all the AVSers that inspired my build which included Art Sonneborn and a couple other at the time I can't recall. I know I stole ideas here and there as well and made them work for my build.

I remember a couple years ago there was only a few theater builds in this section, it has grown drastically since then. I guess the HT market is booming! All and All, it's a beautiful thing. :)

There has been so many great construction threads over the past couple years that I followed. I still check into some of the new builds to see what is going on.

Your SmX screen is here waiting :D

Ruben

I really love to have a home theatre just like you guys.....
What is the ideal formula for lengthXwidth of a home theatre and also how big the screen should be from the first viewer??

I really love to have a home theatre just like you guys.....
What is the ideal formula for lengthXwidth of a home theatre and also how big the screen should be from the first viewer??

Look for the room calculator at the bottom of the home page

http://www.tmlaboratories.com/

Quote:
Originally Posted by yongyh
I really love to have a home theatre just like you guys.....
What is the ideal formula for lengthXwidth of a home theatre and also how big the screen should be from the first viewer??

Look for the room calculator at the bottom of the home page

http://www.tmlaboratories.com/
__________________
Kansas City Area Enthusiasts Unite!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the reply ...how about the screen size ratio within the first row... i have been surfing the web and has few formula.... some use the triangle math formula some uses distance from the first row is 3 times the screen size diagonally.....do you guys have any practical ratio for the screen size...height?....thanks.....

After about a week of on and off reading, I finally made it to the end and I must say this is very impressive. I have two questions for you though. First how did all the dvd ripping turn out, and second, have you started/completed your fish tank that you talked about?

Do you happen to have a list of components you used? Would it make sense for me to do a 1080p system even though I only will be using the system to watch DVDs? There are a few companies out there like Cellar Cinima etc. that are charging a fortune to build these systems and I wanted to try and save a little money. thanks a lot.

I have a AMD 3800+ at 2.3ghz and a 8800GTS do you think i can do 1080p to my TV with that hardware.

For anyone who did not get to see the article of our theater in Home Theater Magazine, Here Is The Article Online (http://blog.audiovideointeriors.com/1007diy/)

Enjoy!
Ruben

For anyone who did not get to see the article of our theater in Home Theater Magazine, Here Is The Article Online (http://blog.audiovideointeriors.com/1007diy/)

Enjoy!
Ruben

Nice! Great to see this online as well.

BTW, were you actually watching The Last Mimzy for the photos? ;)

Nice! Great to see this online as well.

BTW, were you actually watching The Last Mimzy for the photos? ;)

Nope, they just Photoshopped that in there. I actually had no clue what movie that was from, now I know :D

Ruben

Congrats Ruben. It would have been nice to get a little more space for what you accomplished in that space. Knowing it from the beginning, there's so much more than they could possibly cover.

Bryan

Ruben, congrats, great article. It was very classy of you to plug the forum and its many great contributors/experts.

The last Mimzy? AAAaaaaaRRrrrGgggggg.

Atleast it wasnt Gigli

The last Mimzy? AAAaaaaaRRrrrGgggggg.

Atleast it wasnt Gigli

Gonna get the poster?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/The_Last_Mimzy.jpg

The last Mimzy? AAAaaaaaRRrrrGgggggg.

Atleast it wasnt Gigli

Yeah, you think the guy that built the theater would have a say in what movie he was watching!!

That Star Wars quote from the article is too funny. Oh the joys of being simplified. :-)

Yeah, you think the guy that built the theater would have a say in what movie he was watching!!Im not sure it would be magazine appropriate

Im not sure it would be magazine appropriate

Oops, yeah. I forgot we were talking abour Ruben :D

Joe

Oops, yeah. I forgot we were talking abour Ruben :D

JoeThey do have those little blur filters and when used sparingly, could add some nice " features" to the article

Wow, what an amazing design and work on your HT. Do you have final pics yet?

The final pics are like 30 pages back. Good luck finding them:).

Wow, what an amazing design and work on your HT. Do you have final pics yet?

Here is what I found: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8343261#post8343261

THIS IS SOME GREAT WORK.

has anyone thought of using sheer weave instead of burlap for bass traps and any other acoustic treatments. just wondering

Well its upgrade time. I recently switched out my Optoma H79 for the 3-Chip Infocus SP777. What an amazing upgrade that was. I was getting about 7 - 10 FL before with the Optoma (when the bulb was new and in High mode) and now I am getting about 30 FL. My 12' wide 2.35 screen looks as bright as a plasma now. The depth of field is incredible the 3D effect is incredible plus no more rainbow effects. The SP-777 uses 3 darkchip3 chips instead of 1 darkchip3 like my previous PJ. The 3 chips eliminate the color wheel.

The one downside to upgrading to this new PJ is that the PJ lens and anamorphic lens combo and throw distance has changed my projected image geometry. The projected Image is no longer as distorted as it was before so I must now change the radius of my screen and wall again. This is fine because I am installing a ProMask-Curv in there so I can change the wall to match the new screen/masking. I am going to go with a standard 40' radius curve. It will not be as dramatic as the previous curve, but the image will fit the screen much better.

Also as part of my upgrade path, I am moving all of my equipment out of the theater. This was one of the biggest mistakes I made in the first place. Having the equipment in the theater adds noise (xBox, HTPC), heat and distracting lights. I am putting 2 new racks right outside the theater entrance.

I will be posting some pictures soon.

Ruben

Awesome theater.

Are the chairs for sale? Thought I read you may change them..

thanks,
WS

Looking forward to seeing the results of the new upgrades, Ruben. Well done! (And congrats on your setup being featured recently in Home Theater Mag.):)

Mmmm 3 chipper, 3D look, mmmmmmm

Since I also have a H79 I'm curious why you didn't opt for a 1080P upgrade?

Since I also have a H79 I'm curious why you didn't opt for a 1080P upgrade?

I'm not really into all the 1080 hoopla. I personally don't see any quality differences between 720 & 1080 just like many others here on AVS. Yes, the pixels are smaller on 1080 but from my seating distance that is irrelevant. Plus there are no current sources that make the 1080 outshine 720.

I wanted more light output and the solid feeling of a 3 Chip DLP with no rainbows and the great 3-chip immersive effect. Also, I am not willing to drop $40k on a 1080 3 chip so it can be worth half price next year. When I bought my Optoma H79 I paid $4200.00 for it which was a great deal at the time, now they are going for $900 new. It depreciated 5 times the original cost in such a short time. I still feel the Optoma H79 is probably one of the better single chip DLPs out today from all the PJs I have seen. It just doesn't have the light output I was looking for a larger screen.

I was considering the Sim2 C3X as well but after reading all the reviews and comparisons between the SP-777 and C3X I couldn't justify paying double the price getting the C3X for pretty close performance.

Some may consider the SP-777 to be the bottom line 3 chip DLP and they may be right. But from what I can tell you so far based on my personal pre-calibrated experience is that it is an incredible upgrade from the H-79.

I will take a 3 chip 720 over a 1080 single chip just like many others.

Ruben

Interesting take on things Ruben. I have had the 720p vs. 1080p debate many times with people and most of the time, they walk away with a new understanding. Most of the people that ask me about things like this are looking at getting a new TV (a few are looking at projectors) but they all sit so far away that it's a waste of money to make the jump to 1080p when the 720p technology will give them everything they need and more. They won't see any pixels because they are far enough away and that's the biggest thing to relate to them.

Mmmm 3 chipper, 3D look, mmmmmmm

Well look who came out of the woodwork. :) Will you get your damn theater finished already, It's been like 2 years now :eek:

Ruben

I am going to go with a standard 40' radius curve. It will not be as dramatic as the previous curve, but the image will fit the screen much better.

Have you found a place where you can get a good deal on a screen? :D

Joe

Well look who came out of the woodwork. :)

Ruben

yeah, do you believe he actually called me when I was on my death bed? And he actually assumed I would have recognized his voice too!!! :p

Joe

Also as part of my upgrade path, I am moving all of my equipment out of the theater. This was one of the biggest mistakes I made in the first place. Having the equipment in the theater adds noise (xBox, HTPC), heat and distracting lights. I am putting 2 new racks right outside the theater entrance.

I will be posting some pictures soon.

Ruben

Ruben,

You might consider just having some custom cabinet doors made and put them over the front of the equipment rack. Here are a couple pics of mine.

Joe

http://www.createasong.com/theaterpics/pic2115.jpg

http://www.createasong.com/theaterpics/pic2118.jpg

Joe, I think you hit your limit for consecutive posts in somebody elses thread.... :)

BTW, Mark, I second Ruben's comments! Tell your boss he will have to wait as you have more important things to do!

Sure, just cause I type fast you have to diss me.

How much did you have to give for the infocus?

Nice work Ruben!! 112 pages later and my head is spinning. :)

I have a 22' x 20' x 9' room in my basement that is empty. You, Ronnie and Steve make it look easy to DIY.

I can only hope that mine will look as good as yours!

Can't wait to see the updated pics!!

Trey

Sandman, just in case you haven't seen it, Anandtech has mentioned your theater and thread here in an article on his sight. I thought that was pretty cool.

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=327

Edit: After reading more of the article it is quite the advertisement for this site and many of the threads here in the construction section.

SandmanX, congrats on your DIY-HT-room, just like GamerJay I stumbled on your thread via AnandTech and wasted the last 2 days reading every post on your struggles and enjoyed the pictures.

And if that wasn't enough I also got sidetracked on all the other awesome rooms that people posting in here linked to direct or via their signature.

You still owe this thread finished pictures from your professional photographer friend, as you stated early on when you started this and took pictures that didn't come out right. The last pictures still show unfinished parts, such as the open columns. And sure you might have them up at the smxscreen.com forum, but as you posted almost every other picture here, might as well keep up :)

And maybe then we can finally see the true color as you kept saying how the cherry red was not firetruck red hehehe.

Also do you have any pictures of the aluminium frame construction on the chair stage? You dumped the older system, because it wasn't powerful enough, but I caught a post where you said you got the bigger system installed.

Did you also finish replacing the GoM on the starfield yet with the velvet?

I'm sure I am not the only one hunger for fresh pictures to this thread.

It was funny though, when I started reading this thread it showed original post dates in 2005, and you where flying through construction. I assumed I was going to end the thread at a date somewhere in 2006 with you being totally finished and me being jealous that you enjoyed such a nice setup all that time. But just like my own ghetto setup has taken forever, I see I am not alone :D

I guess I should put up my own thread now on my ghetto theater. I just got a cheap $50 65"x65" screen, that I can pull down infront of the TV. Ceiling mounted $750 Acer PD120 DLP and $210 Logitech Z-5500 THX speakers. The DIY HTPC of $700 does finish it all off nicely, but my total theater cost so far has only been $1950 (including Nostalgia popcorn and hotdog machine). So it might be a ghetto setup right now, but watching movies for me is now priceless.

I guess I've been lucky with the natural livingroom construction, because the sound carries resonably well, including a good deep bass, though I'm sure you are getting a deep-tissue-massage with yours at maximum setting (and another chandelier coming down).

My next plan is a $100 X10 home-automation upgrade, so that all the lights dim and the equipment powers up, but inspired by your talk, I'm going to be looking for an AT screen as well and masking with the black velvet.

Another idea I'm toying with is eventually getting a PSP (PlayStationPortable) for $169 and using the homebrew SDK to turn it into a touchscreen + tacticle remote control for the HTPC and home-automation. I'm sure somebody has done something to that extend already, so I'm hoping I can tap into their work. Did you settle yet on a tablet PC yourself? Last post I remember you had the Samsung Q1 and another one and were still playing around.

The software I use for my HTPC is MediaPortal, which is open source, but I guess you are happy with your existing setup by now, just figgured I toss that in there, cuz all your posts are still like new to me, so I remember your struggles with other solutions.

Thanks for your inspiration to me and I'm sure many others to try to achieve a similar setup. Now I just have to convince the wife, but your pictures have helped a lot. Just gotta win that PowerBall lottery now so I step out from the "Ghetto" budget range and have you build it for me :)

Amazing thread. I also heard about this from anandtech. Some day I will build one as well and now I know where to start. Thank you for such a great read.

Nice topic! Perfects theater! Congrats!

OK, I'm really late posting any sort of question like this, but I gotta ask: why do so many of these high end theatres use rectangular rooms? From what I understand about acoustics, rectangles cause standing waves that can wreak havoc with lower frequencies (the worst case is a cube where all standing waves are at the same frequencies). If you look at many recording studios and performance spaces, you'll see the side walls are not quite parallel, and the ceiling is not parallel to the floor. Break the back wall into two halves with a slight dihedral between them and you've de-parallelized all your walls. This gets rid of standing waves, which smooths out the position dependent frequency response of the room.

One other hint: if you want to hear good bass, put your head near a wall. At the boundaries of the room there are velocity minima, and so pressure maxima. Your ear is a pressure sensitive device, so you'll hear more bass at the wall. I understand the practicalities of putting your viewing chairs in the center of the room, far from the boundaries, but try listening with the back of your head against the back wall, and tell us how much bass you hear.

Rectangular=space efficiency.

Standing waves are dealt with otherwise (multiple sub placement at proper nodal locations and bass traps).

No matter the room shape (within reason), you will have nulls and peaks that require attention. Even a completely non-parallel room will have wave collision and coincidence causing nulls and peaks. A rectangular room makes it easy to pre-identify those locations so that you can design your seating areas away from those deep nulls and peaks, as well as identify where you need to add counter-measures. Try modeling a non parallel dihedral room to identify the location of peaks and nulls sometime ;)

OK, I'm really late posting any sort of question like this, but I gotta ask: why do so many of these high end theatres use rectangular rooms? From what I understand about acoustics, rectangles cause standing waves that can wreak havoc with lower frequencies (the worst case is a cube where all standing waves are at the same frequencies). If you look at many recording studios and performance spaces, you'll see the side walls are not quite parallel, and the ceiling is not parallel to the floor. Break the back wall into two halves with a slight dihedral between them and you've de-parallelized all your walls. This gets rid of standing waves, which smooths out the position dependent frequency response of the room.

The answer is simple. Even though Sandman's (and others out here) room looks (and in fact is) "high end" it is actually a relatively low-budget DIY room in a residential space. Non-rectangular rooms are very hard to pull off in residential spaces because they screw up the surrounding rooms. However, if you look, you will see a few out here (I remember one big one from a few years back). As others said, the problems of rectangles are dealt with by other means - one of which is paying attention to the relative lengths of all the walls.

One other hint: if you want to hear good bass, put your head near a wall. At the boundaries of the room there are velocity minima, and so pressure maxima. Your ear is a pressure sensitive device, so you'll hear more bass at the wall. I understand the practicalities of putting your viewing chairs in the center of the room, far from the boundaries, but try listening with the back of your head against the back wall, and tell us how much bass you hear.

I'll tell you how much: too much, and all at a very narrow frequency band. One of the things we specifically do in most of these rooms (that are well designed and can afford the space) is keep our seating OFF the back wall because of this issue. The idea isn't just to see how much bass-loading you can achieve in order to squeeze your ear drums - its to get really good, rock your socks off sound in as wide an area of the room as possible. If we tuned our rooms to sound good in the corners or on the back wall, they would sound completely anemic in the majority of the space.

And this is coming from a bit of a bass junkie - look at my sub ;).

Also, I am not willing to drop $40k on a 1080 3 chip so it can be worth half price next year.

I know I'm a few months late on this reply, but dang, I wish my reason for not buying a 40k projector had to do with depreciation...

:)

A little update,

Today I got my Tabletkiosk eo UMPC i7209 (http://www.tabletkiosk.com/tkstore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=35&idproduct=153) to use with my automated home and theater. I have the Samsumg Q1 as well, but I like the fact that the eo has a charging dock station and a built in camera.

Here are some flix showing the Q1 and the eo...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Tablets/IMG_5626.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Tablets/IMG_5627.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Tablets/IMG_5633.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Tablets/IMG_5634.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Tablets/IMG_5638.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Tablets/IMG_5642.jpg

I know its a little late here in this thread... but what is the exact use for one of these? Control the media center?

Only thing I can think of is using Remote Desktop unless there is an application I dont know about.

Thanks.

I know its a little take here in this thread... but what is the exact use for one of these? Control the media center?

Only thing I can think of is using Remote Desktop unless there is an application I dont know about.

Thanks.

I think Ruben is using Cinemar.

Joe

I think Ruben is using Cinemar.

Joe

I know he used to. I'm not positive if he still does.

But I use mine extensively. I can control pretty much everything from the tablet:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/tabletkiosknew.jpg

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/nowplayingnew.jpg

I know he used to. I'm not positive if he still does.

But I use mine extensively. I can control pretty much everything from the tablet:



That is awesome. What do you use for a tactile interface?

Joe

That is awesome. What do you use for a tactile interface?

Joe

An MX-850. I am pretty much a hard-button guy when it comes to in-movie control (volume, transport, etc.). I use the touch panel to power up/down and find what I'm going to watch and then the 850 from there. The panel is also good for things like setting aspect ratio on my scaler because it uses RS232 for direct control.

(sorry for the hijack, Ruben)

I know he used to. I'm not positive if he still does.

But I use mine extensively. I can control pretty much everything from the tablet:

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/tabletkiosknew.jpg

http://www.reedsplace.com/Theater/nowplayingnew.jpg

So are you actually using 'Mainlobby' to control your HTPC?

I am trying to figure out how to do what I need, I have a licensed copy of mainlobby that I never got areound to installing, now by HTPC runs Vista and I don't even know it will work.

Any tips and information how your set-up runs would be appreciated.

BTW I have a collection of Viewsonic Airpanels that I had planned to use to do the control aspect. I also have UMPC (Asus R2Hv that could be used)...


I checked out yout theatre, great job BTW!

Al

I don't want to hijack Ruben's thread any further. Check out the last few pages of my thread where I talk a bit about my ML setup and ask any detailed questions there. Thanks.

Will do, thanks!

Holy crap, I can't believe this thread has over 1 million views!
This must be an AVS record. :D

Here are the touch panels I am using with Cinemar. I absolutely love them over the Q1 and EO. They use flash drives (not hard drives) so the battery lasts longer, they don't get hot like the Q1 and EO, No annoying fan noise, awesome rechargeable docking station, very sleek looking. Plus the screen size works perfect for me. I never liked the size of the Q1 and EO.

They run a little slow (1ghz Celeron) if you try to use them as a client but I use them as remote desktops and they fly. I keep my client software on a dedicated server in my rack for speed and use these for convenience.

Cinemar is doing big things and I can't believe how much people sleep on them. You can pretty much control your whole life from a touch-screen with Cinemar.

I haven't had much time to get back into the automation side but I am squeezing in time here and there.


http://www.smxscreen.com/images/TouchScreen-re2.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/TouchScreen-2.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/TouchScreen-re.jpg

Ruben

Ruben,
What are those? Can you provide a model and maybe a link to the manf. website? They look very nice!

-Matt

Ruben,
What are those? Can you provide a model and maybe a link to the manf. website? They look very nice!

-Matt

Looks to be this site:

http://www.cinemaronline.com/products.html

Looks to be this site:

http://www.cinemaronline.com/products.html

Yes, thats the software, i am want to know where he got the sweet LCD touch screens using cf cards.

I have no idea who makes the panels, I got them through a local guy that owns a home automation company. They are 100% OEM and there is no manufacture name on them. This company orders 100 at time for their business and then they screen print their company logo on them. I happened to get lucky and get them without any logos on them.

All I do know is these are the very same panels Cresteon and Elan use which is one of the reasons why I jumped on them.

These beauties didn't come cheap, they cost me close to $2k per panel. I searched the net high and low to try to find the OEM manufacturer of these with no luck. Hopefully someone knows here so I can get some more at a better price.

Ruben

I have no idea who makes the panels, I got them through a local guy that owns a home automation company. They are 100% OEM and there is no manufacture name on them. This company orders 100 at time for their business and then they screen print their company logo on them. I happened to get lucky and get them without any logos on them.

All I do know is these are the very same panels Cresteon and Elan use which is one of the reasons why I jumped on them.

These beauties didn't come cheap, they cost me close to $2k per panel. I searched the net high and low to try to find the OEM manufacturer of these with no luck. Hopefully someone knows here so I can get some more at a better price.

Ruben

I might be able to help...my company (a hotel) ordered 4 of these through our POS Vendor (point of sale). They are used as mobile POS stations for bars, cash sales, etc.

I'll see what I can find out about the manufacturer.

Except for the port on the face in the lower left corner, it looks a lot like an Escient EWP-2000.

Hi Folks,

Those tablets are made by WebDT - looks like model WebDT 360.

I think mcascio has it, definately looks like the WebDT 360.

Any chance of a small 2 or 3 link index at the front for the latest theater pics (Seating/screen etc)...ive been searching through the 120+ pages and haven't struck gold yet lol.

Thanks!

I think mcascio has it, definately looks like the WebDT 360.

Contacted the company directly...they don't normally sell direct, only through resellers. But they are willing to make exceptions if people want to buy in quantity. I told him I'd post here and see if there was any interest in doing a 'group' buy. I myself am interested...anyone else PM me and we'll see how many total. I think Sandman said that he paid $2k through a reseller, so I'd hope to see a direct price much lower than that.

Any chance of a small 2 or 3 link index at the front for the latest theater pics (Seating/screen etc)...ive been searching through the 120+ pages and haven't struck gold yet lol.

Thanks!

Here are the last pictures I took...

PAGE 87 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=8343261&postcount=2592)

Ruben

Contacted the company directly...they don't normally sell direct, only through resellers. But they are willing to make exceptions if people want to buy in quantity. I told him I'd post here and see if there was any interest in doing a 'group' buy. I myself am interested...anyone else PM me and we'll see how many total. I think Sandman said that he paid $2k through a reseller, so I'd hope to see a direct price much lower than that.

Awesome, let us know. They are real nice panels but keep in mind, they are slow. The Q1 is much faster than these. They only work well when you use them like how Crestron and Elan uses them, as remotes.

Ruben

I'm interested, let me know.

Here is the Elan version http://www.elanhomesystems.com/product/interfaces/via/via2_84.asp

Here is the modified Crestron version
Crestron (http://www.ce.org/shared_files/markofexcellence/moe2007/277/photo1_277.jpg)

Ruben

Awesome, let us know. They are real nice panels but keep in mind, they are slow. The Q1 is much faster than these. They only work well when you use them like how Crestron and Elan uses them, as remotes.

Ruben

Will do. Interested parties please PM me. Thanks!

Sandman, Did you build or buy those star panels? I wanted to buy them but the price is too much for me right now. If I could build them that would be great. I just don't know where to start when it comes time. You can check my thread as I am still on the framing stage but suggestions would help.

Thanks

How about this one, for $1828:

http://www.buildyourumpc.com/NovaMobility-SunPad-WebDT-360-UMPC-xpe-p/sunpadxpe.htm

Thanks for the link!

Sandman, Did you build or buy those star panels? I wanted to buy them but the price is too much for me right now. If I could build them that would be great. I just don't know where to start when it comes time. You can check my thread as I am still on the framing stage but suggestions would help.

Thanks

I built them and I detailed the build of them in this thread. On what page? ...Now that's another story. :D

I just searched and found it it's on pages 7 & 8.
STAR CEILING BUILD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=574704&highlight=fiber+optic&page=7)

Ruben

Wow Ruben I this thread keep going, and going..

Love the new remote.

Over a million views...

Wow!

Doug

You know if this thread does come to a stop, I'll have to rethink my daily routine.

Ruben;

I'm very interested in DVD Lobby, I've reviewed the stuff on their site. But I was wondering if you could do a Visio or diagram to show how you have the HTPC, CD Changers, RAIDS and Tablet all hooked together.

1. Are you using RDC into the HTPC via the Tablet?
2. Does the tablet actually run windows XP
3. Or you doing a thin client like setup.
4. Do you have the Cinema Client and Server on the same machine
5. How about your drive arrays, are they stand alone NAS, or Server attached storage?

Hi Don,

I’m not sure about Ruben’s setup but the great thing about ML and DVDLobby is you can really do any of the above. I’m sure Ruben will chime in shortly.

In the past I used AirPanels to RDC into a client/server running ML and this worked fairly well. Wasn’t the fastest solution but definitely usable and cost effective. I suspect Ruben is running either Windows XP or XPe on his touch panels and then using RDC to access MainLobby on another client (HTPC).

As for servers, I use both NAS and server attached (RAID5). Both work extremely well.

The latest release of DVDLobby (3.75) is extremely flexible, not only from a design/layout perspective but functionality as well. As with Ruben, I’m a big fan of Cinemar’s products. They’ve done an exceptional job growing their entire suite of products and supporting their customers.

Have you DL’ed the trial version yet?

I don't want to derail this thread too much. But I'm growing sick of my Pronto TSU7500, it does a very nice job, but I want more. I echo Ruben's statements that Kaleidescape although an attractive system costs way too much. I'd could afford the package if I so wished but, I just don't think it's fiscally responsible to do so. There are better places to focus my money. For quite sometime I've had my eye on DVD Lobby.

Having said the above, I'd like to setup a system like Ruben's. I'm looking for a tablet solution that can also do remote functions, with RS-232 feedback (Volume Level, ETC.) Not show stopper but I would really like that, if it can be done.

Ruben's past tutorials have help many, so I was hoping maybe he could chime in on the process. I'm getting ready to do a full rework of my controls.

Don et al, maybe start a thread over at the Home Automation area that deals with all Cinemar products and setups.

Im also looking into MainLobby and DVDLobby.

I'm using the thin client also with MainLobby. In my view it is too slow. Plus XP Pro (were ML is running) only allows ONE logon at a time. Unless you hack it. It would be cheaper to by a hand held PC running XP vs. running windows server to get more then one login at a time. Faster too.

The other option is your iPod Touch or iPhone using the built-in web browser.

Aiwa;

Yeah I will good idea.

Wish I could find one of those new panel Ruben snagged. I've played with the Samsung Q1, I like the look of the new panel better. I found a few places with things close to it.

Okay it's not my best work but I figured I'd just do a quick Visio layout. I'll refine it later.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o70/DonKellogg/Random/MainLobby.png

Questions still:


Are you using the tablet to control AV equipment (IR,RF)
Is it better to do RDC to terminal services on the ML Server
What player are us using to play DVD's?

Aiwa;

Yeah I will good idea.

Wish I could find one of those new panel Ruben snagged. I've played with the Samsung Q1, I like the look of the new panel better. I found a few places with things close to it.

When you do share the link here. I will chime in too.

joe

Questions still:


Are you using the tablet to control AV equipment (IR,RF)
Is it better to do RDC to terminal services on the ML Server
What player are us using to play DVD's?


Hi Don,

I have a whole home server I built which is fast. I used a Core 2 Quad Extreme QX6850 processor and Gigabyte GA-EX38-DQ6 motherboard that has 1600 MHz Front Side Bus support and 8 gigs of Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2 1066 memory. I have my LG HD/Bluray combo-drive in this for ripping HD/SD. It also has an internal 80 gig HD running Windows XP pro (at the moment). This is all in a 4 space rack mount enclosure.

This server contains my MainLobby Server and Main Lobby client software. It controls my whole home lighting (Insteon Switches) using a PLM plugin from Cinemar in Main Lobby server. It also controls all my IR units (Theater equipment) through USB-URIT and a Xantech IR distributor/amplifier. This allows me to control up to 16 IR units from Main Lobby. It is basically the brain to everything you want to do.

Then I have an HTPC I built, another Core2 processor not as fast as the server but it is used as a head player in the theater. It contains an nVidia Geeforce 8800GTX video card and optical audio output. It is in a identical rack mount case as the server. On this HTPC I have PowerDVD Ultra which I use to play all my HD/BR/SD movies. This HTPC is connected to my Lumagen HDQ scaler and then from the scaler to the PJ via DVI. The optical audio output of my HTPC is connected to my Audio Processor (Outlaw 990).

For my movie storage, I have a 16 terabyte raid 5 which is really 14 terabytes. This is hooked up to the server via SCSI 360. This is a networked raid so I can access and playback movies/music from any room in the house.

The touch panel runs Windows XP embedded. I only use this to remote desktop into my server which is running Main Lobby client. This runs much faster than using a stand alone Q1 or EO with ML client on them and does not heat up, have fan noise or drain battery life like those units.

I had Windows server installed in my server before that allowed multiple clients and I will be putting that back on again soon. I just been so busy that I haven't found much time to get back into this.

Hopefully this helps a little. There is so much more to the set up and I left allot out.

Ruben

Don, the diagram you have should work just fine.

Thank you Ruben that is spot on for what I thought. I do have one stumbling block in my understanding still, sorry. The HTPC Head Unit does that also run the Client software, like the server. I get the Power DVD Ultra Part, just not sure if the client also runs on that. What would I need on each head unit to play. I'm planing on doing a full house as well.

So what rack cases are you using, I don't think the rack raids you have are still sold by that company. Looked for them a while ago, probably going with a SATA raid.

Hi Don,

The HTPC doesn't run the Main Lobby client.
It does run a PowerDVD client service provided by Cinemar. It basically listens out for commands coming from ML Server and talks to PDVD.

For rack cases I am using some crappy temporary antec rack mount cases. I will post a link to them when I get home.

Ruben

I now I get it, plugins control players.

Thanks I was going to use the same HTPC case that you have on your site. But it looks like it's too wide for a standard 19" rack. As for the hot swappable rack array, I'll have to keep looking. Seems even Apple stopped sell theirs, sure there are other options..

This looks to be a good option so far 24 drives

http://www.acmemicro.com/estore/merchant.ihtml?pid=524&step=4

Ruben,

I looked through the entire thread and could not figure out how you have mounted the front Klipsch speakers behind the screen. Could you comment on this and how you treated the screenwall as I am about to begin this process with the very same speakers. Also, what kind of power do you think these speakers need?

Thanks,

John

I now I get it, plugins control players.

Thanks I was going to use the same HTPC case that you have on your site. But it looks like it's too wide for a standard 19" rack. As for the hot swappable rack array, I'll have to keep looking. Seems even Apple stopped sell theirs, sure there are other options..

This looks to be a good option so far 24 drives

http://www.acmemicro.com/estore/merchant.ihtml?pid=524&step=4

That supermicro is a really nice case... I’ve built a server using that case before and open-e software. Best way to do this and to avoid having to use (expensive) hardware SCSI cards in both the storage server and the main server is to use iSCSI.

You can also use this as a NAS function system but iSCSI is the same thing as a SCSI 320 link but uses SCSI commands over an IP Network. SCSI 320 has its advantages but its more at an enterprise level. (if you want the Network Your Storage With IP by Stephanie Balaouras white paper explaining this) PM me and ill send it to you.

I am using open-e with an HP ProCurve managed switch. I have a 2 Gigabit Teamed NICs using jumbo frames beteween the Server and the Storage Server.

I built them and I detailed the build of them in this thread. On what page? ...Now that's another story. :D

I just searched and found it it's on pages 7 & 8.
STAR CEILING BUILD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=574704&highlight=fiber+optic&page=7)

Ruben

Thanks Ruben. Thats exactly what I was looking for.

Ruben,

I looked through the entire thread and could not figure out how you have mounted the front Klipsch speakers behind the screen. Could you comment on this and how you treated the screenwall as I am about to begin this process with the very same speakers. Also, what kind of power do you think these speakers need?

Thanks,

John

I used OmniMount 60.0 Series wall-mounts to mount the Klipsch KL-650s. The screen wall is treated with a 5.5" thick cotton and covered with a black cotton muslin fabric.

Ruben

The next raid I build is going to have the server built in using e-Sata-2 16 channel and 8 channel raid cards and making it all internal. It will house 24 one terabyte SATA-2 hard drives. This way makes the most sense (money-wise and speed-wise) The case looks something like this but will have full height LG BR/HD combo drive in front for direct ripping...

http://isnerd.net/images/chenbro-24-bay-case.jpg


Ruben

Or if you want to get a little more serious you can do one of these 40 bay monsters :D

http://www.rackmountmart.com/prodspics/rm8005-08.jpg

However, all this is going to be obsolete once Seagate releases their 300 Terabyte Hard Drive (http://seekingalpha.com/article/23463-seagate-gearing-up-for-300-terabyte-hard-drive)

Ruben

The next raid I build is going to have the server built in using e-Sata-2 16 channel and 8 channel raid cards and making it all internal. It will house 24 one terabyte SATA-2 hard drives. This way makes the most sense (money-wise and speed-wise) The case looks something like this but will have full height LG BR/HD combo drive in front for direct ripping...

http://isnerd.net/images/chenbro-24-bay-case.jpg


Ruben

I like it! Ripping BluRay movies???? I am very interested. I want to move my collection to storage but don't know of any programs that will help me do this.

Any suggestions.

Anydvd will do what your looking for.

The next raid I build is going to have the server built in using e-Sata-2 16 channel and 8 channel raid cards and making it all internal. It will house 24 one terabyte SATA-2 hard drives. This way makes the most sense (money-wise and speed-wise) The case looks something like this but will have full height LG BR/HD combo drive in front for direct ripping...

http://isnerd.net/images/chenbro-24-bay-case.jpg


Ruben


Pretty impressive. Where does one start looking up information to setup these monsters ? I'm interested but don't know where to start.

I'd love to hear that one as well, I can build gaming rigs and stuff no problem, but I have no idea how you would get a controller to take that many hd's in.... A guide would be awesome =)

When you do share the link here. I will chime in too.

joe


Yeah, give us a link when you get your Cinemar question out there. I've just finished re-doing my DVDLobby setup to take advantage of 3.75 so I'll chime in as well.

You need a beefy Raid 6 controller. Something like:

http://www.acnc.com/02_01_jetstor_sata_416s.html

NOTE: Warning...expect sticker shock...not for the feint of heart ;)

You need a beefy Raid 6 controller. Something like:

http://www.acnc.com/02_01_jetstor_sata_416s.html

NOTE: Warning...expect sticker shock...not for the feint of heart ;)

Nah, you don't need that, you can use $500 16 port RocketRAID cards.

Ruben

Ah nice. I will keep those in mind.

The next raid I build is going to have the server built in using e-Sata-2 16 channel and 8 channel raid cards and making it all internal. It will house 24 one terabyte SATA-2 hard drives. This way makes the most sense (money-wise and speed-wise) The case looks something like this but will have full height LG BR/HD combo drive in front for direct ripping...

http://isnerd.net/images/chenbro-24-bay-case.jpg


Ruben

Ruben;

Who makes this case I have not seen this one before. The Supermicro case I've been looking at is very similar. I have seen the forty drive model you mention. Have you found a full height optical drive case with 24 bays yet, if so would you share the manufacture or a source to get it.

Nah, you don't need that, you can use $500 16 port RocketRAID cards.

Ruben

Ahhh, so u just buy a raid card with enough ports, I think that was the only piece I was missing, thanks guys!

Tho, I think raid 5 would scare me with that much storage, 2 drives go down and its all dead... =(

Ruben;

Who makes this case I have not seen this one before. The Supermicro case I've been looking at is very similar. I have seen the forty drive model you mention. Have you found a full height optical drive case with 24 bays yet, if so would you share the manufacture or a source to get it.


Don,

I think that's a Chenbro. Geez from the prices i looks like I have a bunch of overtime to do :D

Check out circotech.com

That is where I bought my 6 drive eSata rack mount enclosure. THeir prices are very attractive.

Joe

I like this one:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-59368419805889_2000_10172496

It has bays for optical drives. and enough HD bays for me.

@ Circotech (http://www.circotech.com/rm-3314-chenbro-3u-rackmount-case-with-8-hot-swappable-sata-ii-trays.html)

This is a whole system case. For the PC and the RAID array all-in-one.

Nice find! 8 bays == 8tb of storage, so 7 tb of raid 5 =) give or take

Ahhh, so u just buy a raid card with enough ports, I think that was the only piece I was missing, thanks guys!

Tho, I think raid 5 would scare me with that much storage, 2 drives go down and its all dead... =(

That's when you use RAID-6, which can sustain 2 drives failing at the same time without loosing any data. And the larger the RAID array becomes, the more hotswap spares you should keep around. That way when a drive fails, you instantly have a spare to hotswap the faulty one with, and then you can take your time to order a new one.

Dedicated XOR engine cards such as the "Promise SuperTrak EX16350 PCI-Express x8 SATA II Controller Card" go for about $700, and can handle 16 drives without a problem (also has open source Linux driver).

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-59368419805889_2000_10172496


@ Circotech (http://www.circotech.com/rm-3314-chenbro-3u-rackmount-case-with-8-hot-swappable-sata-ii-trays.html)


Questions:

This unit is not going to run on Windows MCE ? Is it ?

My thinking (forgive my dumbness) Is that this unit will enclose a motherboard ,
SATA drives, and will run some type of server OS and my HTPC with MCE will be a client.

Am I even close to how this is supposed to work ?

I run it with XP MCE. There is really no compelling reason to run one of the server operating systems.

Joe

That's when you use RAID-6, which can sustain 2 drives failing at the same time without loosing any data. And the larger the RAID array becomes, the more hotswap spares you should keep around. That way when a drive fails, you instantly have a spare to hotswap the faulty one with, and then you can take your time to order a new one.

Dedicated XOR engine cards such as the "Promise SuperTrak EX16350 PCI-Express x8 SATA II Controller Card" go for about $700, and can handle 16 drives without a problem (also has open source Linux driver).

You can always run Raid 10 :)

Joe

Questions:

This unit is not going to run on Windows MCE ? Is it ?

My thinking (forgive my dumbness) Is that this unit will enclose a motherboard ,
SATA drives, and will run some type of server OS and my HTPC with MCE will be a client.

Am I even close to how this is supposed to work ?

1kB = 1000 bytes (format that HDD manufactors use)
1KiB = 1024 bytes (technical correct format, which is what Windows uses inside Explorer, but calls it KB/MB/GB/TB instead of KiB/MiB/GiB/TiB)

Even FAT32 can deal with 8TB drives theoretically on Windows XP (all versions, including Home), and with NTFS it is architectual possible to do 16EB volumes (16 EB = 16000 PB = 16000000 GB). It is technically 16EiB - 64KiB, but that's a different story.

However there are also OS and partition limits, so the actual limit with 64KiB clusters is 256TB (256TiB - 64KiB), and for 4KiB clusters (the default when you format with NTFS and not change the values) it is 16TB (16TiB - 4KiB).

Also NAS setups are more and more the preference for HTPC setups, even for consumers. So you setup the storage in a nice closet/attic and via the network serve the data over. With 1GbE you can even handle High Definition streaming easy to multiple locations. Of course when you already have a server-client setup for HTPC going, and the server case is big enough, then having a seperate NAS is simply extra money you didn't needed to spend.

But then again nothing beats showing up with a nice portable NAS with 8TB of data to a friends HTPC setup :D

You can always run Raid 10 :)

Joe

Ok, say you got 6x 1TB drives, the following shows how much volume space you are left with:

RAID-0 = 6TB -- Pros: superfast / Cons: no backup, if one drive dies, you loose it all
RAID-01 = 3TB -- Pros: fast / Cons: 50% loss in storage, reasonable backup, but if 1 drive fails on both the original 3TB volume and 3TB backup volume you will be in pain
RAID-10 = 3TB -- Pros: fast / Cons: 50% loss in storage, little more redundancy when RAID-01, but not the kind of odds I like (hotspares fix some of those worries, but then you add more cost for the HDDs not even used)
RAID-5 = 5TB -- Pros: only 1TB is lost for redundancy / Cons: if more then 1 drive fails you loose it all + needs dedicated XOR engine to be fast
RAID-6 = 4TB -- Pros: 2 drives can fail at the same time without loosing anything / Cons: needs dedicated XOR engine to be fast

RAID-30 and RAID-50 are best choices if you want both speed and redundancy, however the key factor becomes cost.

A hardware XOR engine controller card easaly costs $400, and with a 1TB drive costing less then $200, then for volumes smaller then 3TB going with RAID-10 might be cheaper, especially when the onboard mainboard controller has enough connections (most new ones have 8x SATA-II on them).

I myself prefer off-line storage, and I use a QuickSwap bay to simply hotswap HDDs as if they were DVDs. Since the drives therefore don't run all the time when the HTPC is on, I not only save energy, but the drives last longer (assuming I don't drop one :cool:). I made myself a storage case out of an old camcorder case and put in the anti-static foam padding that HDD manufactors use when they ship 20 drives in a box.

My HTPC still has 2x500GB in RAID-0 for recording HDTV shows, but any shows I want to keep are transferred to the off-line drives. Now tripping over the rug holding one of the off-line drives, made me realize I do want more redundant storage, without giving up the off-line benefits. So I'm switching over to an off-line QuickSwap RAID-5 solution, where I'll have to get two more QuickSwap bays ($30 each) to create a 3-bay QuickSwap solution. By hotswapping three drives at the same time, I'll only have two drives for storage, but a lot more peace of mind. The problem is cost, since I won't be able to just buy 1 drive, but will have to get 3 at a time.

Ruben, I am thinking of following your lead and installing ML3 Server etc.

I saw you mention that you were also using ML to control PowerDVD, I can't seem to find the plugin... is it still supported/available?

thanks, Al

Hi Al,

Just responded to your email as well.

The PowerDVD plugin has been in beta but it will be available soon through our shopping cart. For now, you can download the 30 Day Trial from MLServer's Installation Assistant. From MLServer select HELP > Additional Software Downloads. You'll find the PowerDVD plugin under section 4 - Drivers (8a/8b).

Well done Reuben. You've inspired yet another theater build.

Sandman X,

Can you give me a price breakdown of your system for storing movies including Blurays. I currently have a Control4 system that has 2 Sony 400 disc changers but I have no option for anyof my HD movies. Can you please let me know what I would need to achieve the storage of my HD content and maybe even my DVDs.

Sandman X,

Can you give me a price breakdown of your system for storing movies including Blurays. I currently have a Control4 system that has 2 Sony 400 disc changers but I have no option for anyof my HD movies. Can you please let me know what I would need to achieve the storage of my HD content and maybe even my DVDs.


Going for a 16TB RAID-6 volume, which leaves you with 12.73TiB effective space (TiB = 1024GiB what OS uses, TB = 1000GB what HDD manufactors use for marketing reasons) will run you almost $4k for the harddisks and controller card alone and is not something most of us can spare.

A more cost effective way would be a Thecus N5200BR Pro NAS box with room for 5 drives. Those are around $750 and then you can get 5x Samsung HD103UJ 1TB drives for $185 each (or Western Digital RAID optimized WD1000FYPS for $240), total of 5TB RAID-5 volume (3.64TiB effective) is then $1675. The Thecus N3200 with room for 3 drives costs around $340, so total for a 3TB RAID-5 volume (1.82TiB effecitive) is then $895. Of course most mainboards have 4+ SATA ports onboard, so you can also just go with that if you have the room in your case for all the HDDs, but a dedicated NAS box is much cheaper to operate 24/7.

You can then just add a Blu-Ray drive to your existing computer for about $200, and use Slysoft AnyDVD HD backup software for $79 to make copies for yourself. The legality of using that software is for you to decide, as not every country in the world has laws allowing such actions to be taken.

A DVD ISO takes about 4.35GiB or 8.4GiB space, but by stripping out the additional language tracks you don't care for, or the trailers/bonus features you can slim it down a little. There is also the option to transcode the MPEG-2 DVD format into H.264/AVC MPEG-4 format, which can usually achieve a compression ratio of 2-3x smaller without sacrificing much detail, but that's a personal choice. The Blu-Ray movies take up to 46.6GiB of space, and can also be transcode into a smaller size.

The important thing is to first find out what format your media player supports and go from there. Or purchase a new media player, such as the TviX HD M-7000A, which can playback Blu-Ray EVO/TS backups, DVD ISO backups and even a wide variety of other formats such as AVI/MKV/MPG/MOV/VOB/etc.

Complete – Finally

After countless hours researching, ‘product hunting’ and constructing…(not to mention the many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project:D:):D). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER….

I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn’t for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater’s progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.


111107

111108

111109

Thanks Again,
Mark
Minneapolis, MN

Complete – Finally

After countless hours researching, ‘product hunting’ and constructing…(not to mention the hours many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project:D:):D). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER….

I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn’t for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater’s progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.


111107

111108

111109

Thanks Again,
Mark
Minneapolis, MN

Ok, I need to touch it to see if its real. When can I come over?

Joe

Complete – Finally

After countless hours researching, ‘product hunting’ and constructing…(not to mention the hours many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project:D:):D). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER….

I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn’t for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater’s progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.


111107

111108

111109

Thanks Again,
Mark
Minneapolis, MN

Wow, very nice, you should post in your own thread to get proper credit. Any build pictures?

Excellent work!

Those are some great renders.

Is the stage a sub-woofer...?

Those are some great renders.

Is the stage a sub-woofer...?

That was going to be my guess.

Joe

Ruben,

I'm curious if you are still using the Insteon lighting controls and how they are working out for you? Whenever a question like this is asked on AVS or Cocoontech it seems to devolve into a shouting match between the haters and lovers.

So given that you seem to be very meticulous about the products you choose, I was hoping to get your feedback.

Thank you.

Rubin,
Have you started the aquarium project?

The stage has two flush-mounted 10" drivers in it (with room for two more for a total of 4-10's). And for sub bass I’m using 2 JL Audio 13w7's that I have tucked away in the corner in a custom built ported box.

Hope that answers your question...

As for build pics, I don’t have a whole-lot to post.

This one was taken after the framing and pre-wiring was done, and I just finished putting up the ump-teen bags of insulation.

111132


This one is of the room post drywall with the soffits mostly completed, along with the start of what would be my columns.

111133


And this one is with the columns, soffits, star-ceiling, and stage/riser complete.

111134




Mark
Minneapolis, MN

Complete – Finally

After countless hours researching, ‘product hunting’ and constructing…(not to mention the hours many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project:D:):D). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER….

I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn’t for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater’s progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.


111107

111108

111109

Thanks Again,
Mark
Minneapolis, MN


Nice, but lacks originality...

SandmanX,

At the expense of making this thread even longer, I must commend you for a truly fabulous job. Well done!

I have been a lurker on AVS for over four years now and I think my last post must have been more than 3 years ago. I say this, so that you know that for every one that posts a thank you, probably 20 or more remain silent and depend on the few, like myself, to do the thanking for them. This thread, and your contribution, deserves some praise.

Thank you for sharing with us all of the details of your construction including all of the detailed photographs and for your patient explainations of the entire process. You are an inspiration.

Keep up the good work. Don't ever get discouraged. We love you! ;)

--Dan

Hey Ruben:

I noticed you're discussion forum at smxscreen.com has been down for awhile. Any plans to bring it back online?

-Gerry

Complete – Finally

After countless hours researching, ‘product hunting’ and constructing…(not to mention the many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project:D:):D). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER….

I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn’t for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater’s progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.


111107

111108

111109

Thanks Again,
Mark
Minneapolis, MN

OMG, that's insane! I swear I thought you just photoshopped the chairs and screen in my room. I am speechless, you did some great reproduction work. You should manufacture replica cars, you will make a killing! I guess the step by step details of my build process were easy to follow! :D

Great Job.

Ruben

Hey Ruben:

I noticed you're discussion forum at smxscreen.com has been down for awhile. Any plans to bring it back online?

-Gerry

Hi Gerry,

It's still there but is a ghost-town because there is no links to it on the main page.
http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/

Ruben

SandmanX,

At the expense of making this thread even longer, I must commend you for a truly fabulous job. Well done!

I have been a lurker on AVS for over four years now and I think my last post must have been more than 3 years ago. I say this, so that you know that for every one that posts a thank you, probably 20 or more remain silent and depend on the few, like myself, to do the thanking for them. This thread, and your contribution, deserves some praise.

Thank you for sharing with us all of the details of your construction including all of the detailed photographs and for your patient explainations of the entire process. You are an inspiration.

Keep up the good work. Don't ever get discouraged. We love you! ;)

--Dan

Thanks for The Kudos Dan. It was a fun time building the room. I'm happy this thread has inspired many people here to build their own. There was a few here that inspired me to build mine such as Art Sonneborn's theater. I used to email Art every week asking him questions about his room and just built off his layout and created my own.

Ruben

Ruben,

I'm curious if you are still using the Insteon lighting controls and how they are working out for you? Whenever a question like this is asked on AVS or Cocoontech it seems to devolve into a shouting match between the haters and lovers.

So given that you seem to be very meticulous about the products you choose, I was hoping to get your feedback.

Thank you.

The Insteon light controls have been crapping out left and light. Since the time I installed about 65 of them in my home 2 years ago, about 20 of them died. When they are working, they work fine.

Ruben

Rubin,
Have you started the aquarium project?

Not yet, since the starting of SmX, my time has been fully consumed.
It is still coming though!

Ruben

I just want to add, I can't believe how fast time passes. This build is almost 3 years old and I can still clearly remember the day I started this thread. There wasn't a whole lot of activity in this Dedicated Theater Build Forum 3 years ago so I remember the responses were coming in slow. I guess allot of people didn't know what was going to come out of it based on my crude drawing I posted :D.

I still enjoy the theater till this day and use it whenever I can. I probably use it 2 - 3 times a month due to my busy schedule.

It is an experience that every man/woman should get to experience once in their lifetime. The picture quality and sound is so much better than the out of focus movie theaters around here. Mostly I'm just sitting in my theater enjoying the incredible picture quality and sound.

Save your bucks and do it right and you will enjoy it for life.

Ruben

I still enjoy the theater till this day and use it whenever I can. I probably use it 2 - 3 times a month due to my busy schedule.




Finally, I've made it to the end of the thread. I would have paid for someone to simply give me a summary. Someone should summarize this thread and sell it. I'd be the first in line to buy just to have it for reference.

I think the statement you make above is sad. It sounds like success has cut into your free time quite a bit. Earlier in the thread you said that you use the theater every day. BTW, do you still have your day job, or has SMX become your day job too?

Thank you for taking the time to post so many details. It's been amazing watching you make choices, changing those decisions, buying stuff, replacing stuff, having stuff break then fixing it or replacig it. It's rare we get this level of insight into a theater lifecycle.

Lastly, if I had to choose the one thing about this thread to thank you for... It's the mistakes, and your willingness to discuss them and let us in on your decision processes around them.

Thanks again. I hope that some day someone takes the time to index this thread because I hate the thought of trying to go back through it again :)

Finally, I've made it to the end of the thread. I would have paid for someone to simply give me a summary. Someone should summarize this thread and sell it. I'd be the first in line to buy just to have it for reference.

I second that.

Ruben, I think if you talk to some publishers and show them the number of views this thread has, you can get an advance on collecting and expanding upon your constuction process into a sure-to-be-bestselling book. It doesn't hurt either that it is featured in some prominant HT magazines ;)

Give it some thought. Just don't remove your posts from here; cheap-asses should be able to spend a few weeks combing through it if they so choose. :)

Just edit the first post to link to your book on Amazon. I'll be looking for it. :D

"Home Theater Construction for Dummies" anyone?

-Dan

The Insteon light controls have been crapping out left and light. Since the time I installed about 65 of them in my home 2 years ago, about 20 of them died. When they are working, they work fine.

Ruben

Damn. Thanks for reporting back. Based on your "endorsement" earlier in this thread when you bought so many of them, and knowing how meticulous you are and how much consideration you put into your selections, I had settled on getting Insteon. Looks like I need to do more research, now. :(

--Dan

Ruben did condense the thread in the (defunct) forum on his website. You need to register to read it though.

http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/

Ruben did condense the thread in the (defunct) forum on his website. You need to register to read it though.

http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/


Registration is closed. Anyone want to provide their credentials so we can all take a look?

Ruben,

Whew! There're a lot of posts to go through! Are you still happy with your THX Ultra 2 speakers and Crown XTI-1000 amps?

I've seen some pretty good close out deals on the Crowns and was wondering if they're still recommended for the Klipsch system. I can get five of them for under $2,000 and use a Y-splitter for the second pair of side surrounds.

Thanks! Was thinking of using 3 of the KL-650-THX's up front and 6 of the KL-525-THX's for the surrounds (one pair for each row of seats) plus their two subs. I do not like dipole speakers, especially with 8 channel discrete mixes and with two rows of seating... why not have it like a commercial theater with a larger wall of sound?

Your thoughts?

Your theater is one of my favorites! Simply superb!

Dan

I can comment on that since I sold Rubin his Klipsch system, his Danley sub and recommended the Crowns to him. They are excellent amps. Quiet, powerful, affordable and reliable. That being said, things do progress and I now prefer the Face Audio amps with the Klipsch...a bit smoother and more detailed. I still sell and recommend the Crown, but I recommend the Face Audio more.

On the Klipsch...the KS-525 surrounds are NOT dipoles. They are actually WDST surrounds, wide dispersion monopoles. The output from the two horns merges. The problem you can run into with using KL-525s is that their dispersion is limited. This is fine if you have enough distance between the speaker and the seats...but if your seats are close to the side (or back) walls, you may end up with a coverage hole. In these cases, we use KS-525's because their coverage is wider and has more vertical element to it.

Ruben,

Whew! There're a lot of posts to go through! Are you still happy with your THX Ultra 2 speakers and Crown XTI-1000 amps?

I've seen some pretty good close out deals on the Crowns and was wondering if they're still recommended for the Klipsch system. I can get five of them for under $2,000 and use a Y-splitter for the second pair of side surrounds.

Thanks! Was thinking of using 3 of the KL-650-THX's up front and 6 of the KL-525-THX's for the surrounds (one pair for each row of seats) plus their two subs. I do not like dipole speakers, especially with 8 channel discrete mixes and with two rows of seating... why not have it like a commercial theater with a larger wall of sound?

Your thoughts?

Your theater is one of my favorites! Simply superb!

Dan

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the Kudos! The Crowns kept breaking down on me, I sent them back to Crown 3 times to be repaired. They seem to be finally working now.

The channels kept dropping out and the volume pods stopped working.

Ruben

Damn. Thanks for reporting back. Based on your "endorsement" earlier in this thread when you bought so many of them, and knowing how meticulous you are and how much consideration you put into your selections, I had settled on getting Insteon. Looks like I need to do more research, now. :(

--Dan

Yeah, unfortunately the light switches keep crapping out. I'm about to pull them out and update them with the most reliable high-tech switches on the market...

These...

http://www.buytaert.net/cache/images-portland-2006-light-switch-700x700.jpg

If anyone is interested, I am going to be selling the 10.4" touch screen and dock I recently got and the TabletKiosk EO with dock.

I could never find time to get to using these so they are both pretty much new, they have just sat in their boxes for a while. If you are interested PM me.

Here are some pictures...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/TouchScreen-re2.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/TouchScreen-2.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/TouchScreen-re.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Tablets/IMG_5626.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Tablets/IMG_5627.jpg

Ruben

The Insteon light controls have been crapping out left and light. Since the time I installed about 65 of them in my home 2 years ago, about 20 of them died. When they are working, they work fine.

Ruben

I would also advise against purchasing the Insteon Deluxe Theater Recliner for home theaters...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e175/circa1720/Ballard08-0815.jpg

Reuben

what happened to all your pictures in this thread???

hey sandman, why did you not end up using the martin logan speakers? im very curious cause they are awesome for home theater.

SandmanX,

I suspect many people in the community are curious about what worked in your install and what didn’t make the cut. I know you’ve gone through a lot of hardware/software and I’m wondering what stuff you still recommended and what got pulled. For example, since you are selling both touch screens… how are you controlling your system? Are you still using MainLobby?

hey sandman, why did you not end up using the martin logan speakers? im very curious cause they are awesome for home theater.

Hi Anthony,

No, they didn't deliver the punch that I wanted in the theater. We watch allot of action movies and the Logans didn't give me the output I was looking for. I'm using the Klipsch Ultra2's.

Ruben

SandmanX,

I suspect many people in the community are curious about what worked in your install and what didn’t make the cut. I know you’ve gone through a lot of hardware/software and I’m wondering what stuff you still recommended and what got pulled. For example, since you are selling both touch screens… how are you controlling your system? Are you still using MainLobby?

I just didn't have enough time to set up Cinemar properly. I worked on it (on and off) for a couple years and could never get it to where I wanted it. They have some new cool updates but I just don't have the time to get back into it. I ended up going with WMC and Meedio, it was simple to set up and it works for me and Meedio has some really slick flash themes which is what I really wanted all along.

Allot of my light switches crapped out and to be honest, I never really used the touch screen for them. The funny thing is the switches I never used crapped out on me too. The automated lights seemed like a really cool thing to do a few years ago but the reality is, I never used them. I only use the automated lights in the theater with the Lutron Graphic Eye that has never failed me.

So I am now basically controlling my theater with a URC MX-980 and it works flawlessly every time. Alan Gouger and a few other people here tried to shy me away from using a touch screen in the theater a few years ago and now I understand why. The handheld remote is the way to go for me.

Ruben

Hi Anthony,

No, they didn't deliver the punch that I wanted in the theater. We watch allot of action movies and the Logans didn't give me the output I was looking for. I'm using the Klipsch Ultra2's.

Ruben

Your using Klipsch Ruben? BAH!!!!!! ;):)

Hope all is well with you.

Cliff

I went through all 116 pages in one work day. Jesus i'm such a slacker. Nice job Ruben!!

hahaha, you and me alike. it took me 7 hrs straight from 9am to 5pm. and i got paid that day too!!

ps i guess it took me like 6hrs 45mins cause i did manage to squeeze in some time for mid-day lunch.:D

Fantastic home cinema! You did great work!
Question: How do you like the Klipsch Ultra II's now that you've had them up and running for a while? Have you considered switching to anything else?
I've been running magnepan 1.6s behind my AT screen for about 9 months now and they are pretty nice, but I still keep wondering how much 'better' the Klipsh Ultra IIs would sound. Back then, they were a bit outside my budget, but now I think I could find them a bit cheaper.
Thanks, and again, great job!
Sean

Fantastic home cinema! You did great work!
Question: How do you like the Klipsch Ultra II's now that you've had them up and running for a while? Have you considered switching to anything else?
I've been running magnepan 1.6s behind my AT screen for about 9 months now and they are pretty nice, but I still keep wondering how much 'better' the Klipsh Ultra IIs would sound. Back then, they were a bit outside my budget, but now I think I could find them a bit cheaper.
Thanks, and again, great job!
Sean

Thanks! The Klipsch Ultra 2's are still doing their job. I had Martin Logans in their previously but they didn't have enough punch. So I went with a system that had decent punch and had surrounds I could fit in my columns. I wanted to put my Genelec system in there but I could not get the smaller Genelecs to fit in my columns without re-doing them.

Ruben

I went through all 116 pages in one work day. Jesus i'm such a slacker. Nice job Ruben!!

hahaha. lets be brothers. it took me 7 hrs straight from 9am to 5pm. and i got paid that day too!!

ps i guess it took me like 6hrs 45mins cause i did manage to squeeze in some time for mid-day lunch.:D

No wonder why so many businesses are going under :eek: :D

Ruben

In the next 2 - 3 weeks I will be tearing down my screen wall to instal a ProMask-Curv masking system. I got such an incredible deal from SmX on the masking system, I couldn't refuse :D

Basically, if anyone remembers, I first had a flat false wall with a curved SmX screen. Then I tore down the flat false wall and built a curved wall to accommodate the curved screen.

The previous curved screen I had was a 16' radius which was an extreme curve that worked okay with my first pj and lens combo but since I changed PJs now the distortion has changed.

So now I am going back to a flat false wall and with a 37.5' radius 12' wide 2.40:1 ProMask-Curv masking screen. I'm going to also redo the covering I had on the wall behind the speakers to clean it up and redo the lighting that highlights the speakers.

The ProMask is going to float off the false wall and I am going to try a subtle blue backlight effect behind the frame.

I will post some pictures throughout the process once it begins.

Ruben

Can't wait to see the modifications!


BTW, Ruben... we are loving our (much less complicated) ProLine screen. :)

Thanks for the update Ruben... look forward to seeing the end result.

I just didn't have enough time to set up Cinemar properly. I worked on it (on and off) for a couple years and could never get it to where I wanted it. They have some new cool updates but I just don't have the time to get back into it. I ended up going with WMC and Meedio, it was simple to set up and it works for me and Meedio has some really slick flash themes which is what I really wanted all along.

Allot of my light switches crapped out and to be honest, I never really used the touch screen for them. The funny thing is the switches I never used crapped out on me too. The automated lights seemed like a really cool thing to do a few years ago but the reality is, I never used them. I only use the automated lights in the theater with the Lutron Graphic Eye that has never failed me.

So I am now basically controlling my theater with a URC MX-980 and it works flawlessly every time. Alan Gouger and a few other people here tried to shy me away from using a touch screen in the theater a few years ago and now I understand why. The handheld remote is the way to go for me.

Ruben

AMEN! I hate Cinemar - spent hours and hours and hours only to have it work sometimes and never the way I wanted. Very angry I spent the money on that when MyMovies can now do more than the Cinemar DVDLobby software. And MyMovies is free!! :mad: I control everything with a Harmony 880. Much improved. Definitely don't recommend that folks go with Cinemar unless they are extremely bored and enjoy frustration.

AMEN! I hate Cinemar - spent hours and hours and hours only to have it work sometimes and never the way I wanted. Very angry I spent the money on that when MyMovies can now do more than the Cinemar DVDLobby software. And MyMovies is free!! :mad: I control everything with a Harmony 880. Much improved. Definitely don't recommend that folks go with Cinemar unless they are extremely bored and enjoy frustration.

I think Cinemar can work out great if you have a trained professional set it up for you. They have the most advanced plug-ins I have seen for different control options. If you try to do it yourself and don't have to make it to complicated, it may work out well. I have a friend locally here that uses it for basic stuff and it works really well for him. My biggest problem was with the networking falling in and out and my lack of time to troubleshoot it.

Ruben

Just read till page 70, WAUW!!!!! is the only thing I can say. Will read the rest tomorrow. What a great forum this is.

Couple updates: Old screen wall torn down, new screen wall built. This will be my 3rd screen wall since I built this theater. First it was flat and designed for a 10' wide screen, then I tore it down and built a 16' radius curved false wall for a 12' wide screen.

Well now that I am finally installing a 140" wide 2.40:1 ProMask-curv masking screen, I wanted the curve of the screen to be more pronounced, so I went back to a flat false wall believe it or not.

Aesthetically, the black cloth on the acoustical treated wall behind the speakers wasn't really doing much for me. I wanted to do something that was a bit more dramatic looking when the lights backlight the screen. So I decided to go with these anechoic chamber wedges for both form and function.

Right now you see the blue lights hitting the speakers but I am also adding white spotlights that will be pointing straight down in front of the wedges to increase the dramatic contrast effect of the wedges. Once I tune the brightness on the lights, it should achieve what I am looking for.

I also slightly adjusted the left and right speaker positions for the masking panels. I should finally get to installing the masking system tomorrow.

Here are a couple quick flicks so far...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/nsw/IMG_1036.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/nsw/IMG_1053.jpg

Ruben

Just curious what changes to the sound you hear? You always see these in recording studios etc... a room like this at work is dead (no echos) and is actually sort of disconcerting to be in...

Just curious what changes to the sound you hear? You always see these in recording studios etc... a room like this at work is dead (no echos) and is actually sort of disconcerting to be in...

He only put them on the front wall so I'm sure it can only help. You want that wall to be pretty much totally dead. Any sound that is going that direction needs to pretty much die and not come back at you.

Looks really cool so far, Ruben. Of course, I would expect nothing less...

Very cool high tech look.

Let me add my "very cool!" comment.. :D ..with a question.. are they easy/cheap to find?

Nice Ruben. How far off the "true" floor (not the stage) is the bottom of the white part of the screen? 24"?

It's nice to see some of you guys are still active in here.

Just curious what changes to the sound you hear? You always see these in recording studios etc... a room like this at work is dead (no echos) and is actually sort of disconcerting to be in...

Nothing really big in sound changed from what I have noticed with the little bit of playback in there. Like mentioned below, this was only applied to the screen wall behind the AT screen.


Looks really cool so far, Ruben. Of course, I would expect nothing less...

Thanks ebr. It was upgrade time so I figured to make some changes.

Very cool high tech look.

Thanks! How is your theater doing? You have one of the theaters I most admired before I started mine.

Let me add my "very cool!" comment.. :D ..with a question.. are they easy/cheap to find?

How dare you use easy and cheap in the same sentence? ;) Brian Pape special ordered them for me. Not cheap and not easy to install as they aren't all cut to true squares. The sizes varied so you have to dry lay them out and work from there.

Nice Ruben. How far off the "true" floor (not the stage) is the bottom of the white part of the screen? 24"?

Hi Swithey,

Close, I'm 28" from the bottom of the screen surface to the true floor.

Ruben

Nice work, Ruben. It looks sweet.

BTW, how is the screen business going? Have you been able to take some of the market share from the big boys... or are you one of the big boys now:)?

dude
man, still pushing the envelope!!! we're not worthy, we're not worthy....

i' ve admired your theater since its inception, great work, keep it up...
you've helped alot of guys and gals over the last few years. thanks!!!

It is funny when a man like Ruben has a beautiful theater that many will admire, but somehow he get ill in the head and decides it is not good enough, so he goes ripping things down just to rebuild in a feeble attempt to make it even better. It is plain amusing, especially as I slowly try to finish my own build for the first time through.

Very nice. If you are looking for somewhere to throw your old screen because you dont need it any more, I would be more than happy to PM you my address.

Hi Ruben,
Have you or anyone measured your final RT-60 and NC in your theater? BTW, great cool factor on the new absorbers.

Hi SandmanX

going to fit a new HC in my house when I get the extension finished. Will be 21 foot x 12 foot. I would just like to say thanks for all of the photos and ideas you shared when building your It has been a great inspiration to me and sent me off in design directions I have never even knew existed.

Is that Auralex on the front wall?

Hi SandmanX,

I am planning to begin my theater soon and I hope you don't mind me borrowing some our ideas. This may have been covered but how did you handle the ceiling reflection points and the starfield? You show an image with 2 6" X 8' strips of 1' material but I missed how they are attached.

Great theater. Great thread!!!!

Awilcox

Hi SandmanX,

I am planning to begin my theater soon and I hope you don't mind me borrowing some our ideas. This may have been covered but how did you handle the ceiling reflection points and the starfield? You show an image with 2 6" X 8' strips of 1' material but I missed how they are attached.

Great theater. Great thread!!!!

Awilcox
Awilcox,

I believe I did something similar to Ruben for my starfield ceiling (except on a smaller scale (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/Starfield2.JPG)). I basically built a frame (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SP-PanelBack.JPG) with a small lip all the way around to hold pieces of the 2" OC703 insulation (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SP-FrontPieceHolesMarked.JPG) - made it a tight friction fit. After they were installed, I added some furring strips (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SF-BackFrontPanel.jpg) to keep it from popping out by accident when I installed it in the ceiling coffer (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/SP-Dryfit2.JPG).

Ruben's installation may have been a little easier since he attached his panels directly to furring strips on the ceiling.

Steve,

Thanks for clarifying those details for me. I took a look at your theater thread and it is very impressive. I do believe I will borrow some of your ideas also. Hopefully you don,t mind

Adrian

Steve,

Thanks for clarifying those details for me. I took a look at your theater thread and it is very impressive. I do believe I will borrow some of your ideas also. Hopefully you don,t mind

Adrian
Steal away :)

Hi Sandman,

Outstanding work, talk about attention to detail. Very impressive!!!

You have inspired me to move forward with my theater build. I will be building it in a room with roughly the same dimensions 20 X 16. I had already built my screen (143" diagonal"). I will eventually go the perforated route.

I have one question for you as I have never taken on a project like this, however, with the aid of all the pretty pictures and detailed explanation you have provided I believe I might be able to pull it off. Here is my question:

You put up three layers of drywall and green glue for the ceiling and double dry wall and green glue for the walls. A soffit is built and this along with the columns are how wires are routed and to maximize sound control (sound escaping the room).

How exactly are the wires routed into the soffet and room from the adjoining ceilings and walls without cutting too many holes and then how do you control the loss of noise control through the newly created holes. Is the ductwork that you installed within the soffet for air conditioning or is it for routing the wires?

I know this may be a silly question, however, as I mentioned earlier, I have never taken on a project like this, but it is the route I must take to control costs. I will be hiring contractors to install the electrical (in fact my brother in law will likely be handling this portion) but I want to make sure that only the holes required are made to route electrical.

Thanks in advance for any help you may provide, it will be greatly appreciated.


Steve