Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins! [Text View] - Page 2

SmX

12-11-05, 04:56 PM

Hey Friends, I'm gonna need your help here. I decided to do a Dark Carpet (Black or Dark Grey) based on what you guys said earlier in this thread here. Problem is, I went to the Carpet store today to look at carpets and can't figure out if I should go with a Black with a Grey Pattern or an all Black with a Black Raised Pattern (See Samples below).

This Place is pretty expensive (Charging $4.85 a SQUARE FOOT to $5.85 a SQUARE FOOT). Yes I said a Square Foot Above. The Carpets I always looked at in the Past were priced by Square Yards.

This is what I brought home today...

This comes in Black
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Carpet-Ideas/DSC06178.jpg

This comes in Black (Same as above You See the Pattern Better)
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Carpet-Ideas/DSC06179.jpg

This is Black with Brownish/Goldish Lines (Also Comes in Dark Grey with Light Grey Lines)
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Carpet-Ideas/Untitled-1.jpg

This is Black with a Grey Pattern
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Carpet-Ideas/Untitled-3.jpg

This is the same as above
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Carpet-Ideas/Untitled-4.jpg

bpape

12-11-05, 05:27 PM

I vote for the black with grey.

All black carpet looks nice - when it's clean - which is for about 15 minutes after you vacuum it...

swithey

12-11-05, 06:35 PM

I like the 1st one best also (interesting pattern). However, with dirt and lint (as bpape mentioned), it may not be the best choice. With that in mind, the 2nd one may be a good alternative. Has a hint of brightness to break up a single color pallet.

Steve

SVonhof

12-11-05, 06:46 PM

The last one looks like a tire pattern.

I would go for the second chioce, based on your couch colors, since the brown looks more red than anything. Not as bright as your recliners, but still the same idea. That may just be the lighting with the camera, but in your theater, nobody is really going to notice the brown is not the same red as the chairs.

MaximAvs

12-11-05, 07:36 PM

I like the Black Brownish with gold lines. It does come off as a little red, which it perfect for a theater.

I like the first textured carpet, but I think that in solid black would be a nightmare to keep clean, not to mention getting every last peice of popcorn out of it!

Sean

SmX

12-11-05, 09:24 PM

Thanks Guys, for Helping me out.

Actually That Carpet you think is a Bronish Red is an extremely Deep Black with Brown Lines. The Scan I did on my Scanner messed the colors up on it. I really Love the Black Carpet with the brown Lines as well. I was thinking about it for a month :) I just was real worried about it not matching the Red & Black Theme I am Doing. I went as far as taking a red Sharpie marker and tried to color in the Gold Lines on the Sample I have. It just came out to dark. I must say, The carpet sample looks awesome next to the theater chairs. I wish I could Special order it with Red Lines or Grey Lines at Least.

They are charging $4.84 a Square Foot for that and that's gonna end up costing about $1,500.00 to do my 300 SQF Room. I figured for that much money, I should be getting a more elegant type carpet.

What do you think?

Any online carpet retailers I should check out first before making the commitment?

Thanks
Ruben

BIGmouthinDC

12-11-05, 09:51 PM

Sandman:

Look in the yellow pages for places that carry a LARGE selection of commercial carpets, look for the "graphic loop" style. You'll find a little more pronounced patterns and prices around $2.5 to $3 sq ft.

Having said that I haven't picked a pattern yet.

radm1f

12-12-05, 01:28 AM

SmX

12-12-05, 02:43 PM

Sandman, this is an incredible thread. Thank you for your efforts. I think you could add some more content and publish this thread as a booklet of "How I did my DIY HT" I know I'd buy it.

I may be getting ahead of the game but was wondering how you were planning to tune your room. Are you going to hire an acoustic engineer (? $), or dB meter/MIC with spectrum analyzer/ freq response software, or a proprietary product like the Audyssey from Texas Instruments (DENON) type thing?

Thanks,

Mehran

Thanks for your words.

I will Analyze the Room with some software and a laptop. I will first see If I can tune it properly with the help of BPape. If that doesn't work correctly I will bring someone in to do it locally.

reaper

12-12-05, 02:55 PM

Did I miss the final renders? Let's see them... before he finishes the room :)

hvn4179

12-12-05, 04:01 PM

For Those you want to know, we are using a Pre-Mixed Stain, and then a High Gloss Lacquer Coating that will get about 3 - 4 Coats with Sanding. The Stain is a Spray on with no wipe off Stain. The Lacquer gets Sprayed too.

Ruben

I really want to know how this stain applies and where to buy it. Is it available at HD or Lowes? It seems a much simpler approach than the conventional wipe off style. TIA.

chirpie

12-12-05, 06:43 PM

Not to be a wet rag but I'd reconsider the high gloss finish. You've spent a lot of time and money to make this a good looking and performing place. I'd hate to see you get a bunch of nasty light reflections off those glossy elements that would compromise the screen image.

But man, bpape, it looks so freakin' cool! ^_^ (Speaking as a biased person who laqured up his bottom half columns as much as he could stand it.) Let's not forget all the times he'll just recline back in those chairs and listen to some multi-channel music... then it's all about the visuals of the room. :-)

bpape

12-12-05, 09:33 PM

Understand. I agree that it would look really sharp.

His design goals are primarily for HT and a very little bit of music. In any case, if the veneer is nice and it's stained nicely, IMO you don't need the gloss. Wood is gorgeous all by itself. A nice satin urethene would do nicely.

SmX

12-13-05, 02:15 AM

Well the Veneering of the Light Tray/Soffit got finished up today. Took about 6 hours with One Guy. Basically we layed out all the Veneer pieces and Matched the Grain for But pieces as clos as possible before applying the Contact Cement.

First About the Veneer, it is a Paper Backed Oak Veneer. We used paper back because it is very flexible without cracking. It's a little bit more money, but it is much easier to work with opposed to non backed veneer.

First we smoothed out the entire MDF, made sure all Screws were counter sinked, filled up screw holes with wood putty, Sanded the whole light tray down to make sure it was all smooth.

Next Applied the veneer. The Glue to apply the veneer is a Special Contact cement for veneers. We first shot the glue on the first piece of Veneer with a spray gun. Then rolled the glue out with a roller to make it smoother. Then Shot the MDF with the glue and rolled it out as well. Then you let it sit for a few minutes and then apply the veneer to the MDF. We then used a special hard heavy roller to smooth the veneer out over the MDF. Then we Began the Second Piece.

There is a little trick to hide But Seams (where 2 veneer edges meet up with each other). You use a special glue and apply it to the crack of the Seam, let it dry a bit and then sand the seam in multiple directions with a corse sandpaper (like 100 Grit). What it does is forces the Saw dust your sanding off to fill up the Seam and blend in so it looks like one continuous piece of wood.

Once it gets coated/sealed you do not see the seam. You are going to see the Seams in my pictures below because we did not seal the Veneer yet.

Here are some pictures below, all we need to do now is a light final sanding of he Veneer to roughen it up a bit and then the sealing and Staining begins and the final clear coat finishes it.

Here are some flicks..

First off, these are some half rounds I am going to experiment with for possible Columns.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06180.jpg

Here is what the Veneer looks like unapplied...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06182.jpg

Here is the Veneer apllied to the light tray...

Front of the Theater...
(Good Thing we Covered the Ceiling First with Plastic) :D

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06217.jpg

Back of the Theater...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06220.jpg

Some Close ups...

Veneer wraps around the Light tray. 1 peice does theSide and bottom...
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06208.jpg

Close up of a Bottom corner...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06191.jpg

Some other Shots...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06195.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06183.jpg

SmX

12-13-05, 02:15 AM

Continued...

Here is the Sealer that goes on after we do the light sanding of the Veneer. This Goes on before the Stain, this basically makes sure your stain gets evenly applied so you dont have light and dark spots...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06224.jpg

For those who want to know about the Stain that We are going to spray on, here it is...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06228.jpg

The Staining begins tomorrow! Finally, we get to see some color brought in this room! :D

More Pictures tomorrow after the Staining is done. Stay Tuned!

SmX

12-13-05, 02:24 AM

I really want to know how this stain applies and where to buy it. Is it available at HD or Lowes? It seems a much simpler approach than the conventional wipe off style. TIA.

It's available at Specialty Stores. Try checking out their website for distributors in your area. I posted a picture of the Stain above. http://www.mlcampbell.com/

bpape

12-13-05, 08:08 AM

Dude,

You're absolutely coming up to do the finish work in MY room when I build my next one. That's going to look schweeet.

Gerry S

12-13-05, 08:21 AM

"Veneer wraps around the Light tray. 1 peice does the Side and bottom..."

Did you have to round the corner a bit to keep the veneer from cracking?

Reason I ask is when I veneered my subwoofer using paper-backed red oak, I had to round the corners to keep it from cracking.

It's coming along really nice Sandman - keep up the good work.

-Gerry

SmX

12-13-05, 10:29 AM

Did you have to round the corner a bit to keep the veneer from cracking?
-Gerry

Thanks, Yes, we rounded off the corners a slight bit to Wrap them with one piece. If you look at the closeup shot of the light tray above, you will see the corner.

Ruben

jbhungvt

12-13-05, 10:43 AM

You definitely have the patience and skills. Can't wait to see the final product.

Keep up the good work

swithey

12-13-05, 11:06 AM

SmX

12-13-05, 12:49 PM

Ruben,

Thanks for the detail on the veneering. It looks great!

QUESTION -- is there a trick to getting (2) pieces to match up? Basically, one vertical piece matched to a horizontal piece (at 90deg) -- similar to what you did on the front curve but with no curve. In my situation, I will not be able to round the corners to use a single piece. I was planning to extend out a bit then trim with a sharp blade. Do I need to use any of that seam filler to help hide the seam a bit more?

Steve

The Seam filler helps out greatly. I recommend spending a few dollars to get it (like $5 a bottle). Matching up pieces is all in the Eye of the beholder. It's never going to match exactly, unless you get lucky. Just do your best and once it gets the Sealer and Stained it should be un noticable unless you are purposely looking for it.

swithey

12-13-05, 01:42 PM

Ruben,

Thanks for the advice!!

Steve

Rop

12-13-05, 05:38 PM

hvn4179

12-13-05, 10:47 PM

It's available at Specialty Stores. Try checking out their website for distributors in your area. I posted a picture of the Stain above. http://www.mlcampbell.com/
Thx for the info. Your work looks fabulous and becomes my inspiration. Great job!

SmX

12-14-05, 03:31 AM

Ruben, what source do you use for veneer? What contact cement do you use? What's the name of the stuff you use for the seams? Do you use a router with a trim-bit for the edges? Or just a sharp knife?

Looks fabulous by the way! I've done some veneering. You make it look so easy, but I know it's not...

-Rob-

Well I'm Out in South Florida so I get my Veneer from 2 Places pretty close to me.

My Favorite Place is
Specialty Supplies Inc.
3410 Park Central Blvd. North
Pompano Beach, Florida 33064 USA
Telephone: 1-866-344-6437
http://www.specialtysupplies.com

They Stock all types of Veneers, Stains and Lots of cool building materials too.
A 4 x 8 Veneer sheet with paper baking is about $35.00 there. This is the place I get my Stain from as well.

Another Spot that stocks allot of cool Veneer and Stains I go to is...

Constantine's Wood Center of Florida Inc. is located at:
1040 E. Oakland Park Blvd.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33334
Phone: 954 561 1716
Order Toll Free: 800 443 9667
http://www.constantines.com/

They are a Bit more expensive, but they sell smaller sheets of Veneer.

This is The Veneer Glue We Use...
http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=43

This is the Gap Filler Glue We use for Butt Joints...
http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=34

We use this Accelerator Spray to help speed up the drying process of the Glue in the Butt joints...
http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=39

As far as Triming, Sometimes we use a trimming tool like this...
http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=701

And Some times a regular Utility knife.

SmX

12-14-05, 04:05 AM

Update...

Today we sanded down all the Veneer to prep it for the Sealer. We also built all 6 Columns today out of 3/4 MDF". They will be getting wrapped with matching Red Oak Veneer as well.

Pictures will come Soon.

SmX

12-14-05, 11:48 AM

Update...

Equipment Rack arrived Yesterday and I assembled it Last night.

The Optoma H-79 Projector Arrived today.

Still trying to decide on a screen.

BIGmouthinDC

12-14-05, 12:12 PM

SmX

12-14-05, 12:18 PM

Curious, How long did it take before you gave in to the urge to unpack the projector set it on something, connect it to a dvd player and shine it on one of the white walls in your house?

I think I lasted 20 minutes.

LOL,

Suprisingly, that hasn't crossed my mind yet :D

I may have to try it tonight, I have too many walls of glass in my home to try it during the day.

We'll See tonight :)

danr1707

12-14-05, 11:46 PM

I think that an OPEN HOUSE for all of Ruben's new friends in South Florida is needed around mid January.

Anybody else thinking this?

SmX

12-15-05, 01:05 AM

Well I hooked up the Projector this evening in our Dining Room and all I can say Is wow! The thing looked pretty damn nice out the Box even against my Textured Biege wall. I didn't even hook up the Pioneer DV-59avi DVD player, I just grabbed a Samsung I had from another room and Ran a DVI Cable. I threw on Finding Nemo.

I had the Lens 13' from the Wall and I had 120" Diagonal 16:9 Image. Then I realized the projector wasn't even on bright mode so I switched to bright mode and the picture popped out even more.

So it looks like I am going to be pretty damn happy with this projector. Also it is so quiet, it is unreal. I had to turn off everything in my house and put my ear next to it to hear the fan.

I am also happy it was not Biege like some people told me. The one I got was white. I wonder why they would make a Home Theater Projector White or Biege anyway? Seems like Black or Dark Grey should be the only colors to make them.

SVonhof

12-15-05, 09:21 AM

Ruben, that thing is quiet eh? Nice. My projector (now over 4 years old) is not quiet and it would be nice to have something that wasn't as loud. Of course, your new pj is also going to have the better black levels than mine which I would also like. Man, I hate how the equipment goes obsolete so fast!

Penniman

12-15-05, 10:20 AM

Excellent work!

Ruben, I am also covering my ceiling with black GOM. I was planning on stapling the GOM directly to the strapping - 3 widths of fabric covering a 13x23 room. My floors are hardwood and my ceilings are not sheetrocked to allow the insulation to act as absorbtion. Anyway, I was wondering if you thought a star ceiling would work for me. The trick is, I don't want a hard ceiling behind the GOM. Do you think I could glue the fiber points to sturdy cardboard and then pull them through the GOM to get the same effect?

Thanks for your very helpful thread!

Kip

SmX

12-15-05, 03:07 PM

SmX

12-15-05, 03:12 PM

Penniman

12-15-05, 03:19 PM

SmX

12-15-05, 03:24 PM

My floors are hardwood and my walls are sheetrocked. To improve acoustics, I'm leaving most of the ceiling open to act as broad-band absorbtion.

I'm just not a carpet guy.

Plus, the room is going to serve as a party room with wild dancing. No carpet, and no soft side walls allowed.

What do you think about the cardboard idea?

K.

I never heard of anyone putting cardboard on the Ceilings. What about wrapping some 703 stiff panels with GoM? That way your whole ceiling will absorb. You may want to consult with BPape about some ideas. He is consulting me on my room.

Thanks
Ruben

swithey

12-15-05, 03:47 PM

I tried contacting AVS today about ordering a screen but could not get through to anyone. I called a few times and left a message once. When I want to order something I like to get it done right away before I start changing my mind.

I thought I would try to give AVS a shot on pricing since BPape said they usually do discounts to AVS forum Members. But it looks like I may have to order from somewhere else.
Ruben,

Contact Jason at AVS via email. He normally respondes quickly that way. His email is: jason@avscience.com. Pricing on the DaLite material is pretty darn good. They also sell the Stewart material bulk (at nearly 4x the price of the DaLite). I'm planning to build a 110" screen and cost will be a little over $200 for the DaLite material. Of course you need to figure in the cost of the DIY frame (wood or metal) -- but that is not much. I have samples of just about everyone's screen material and plan to "test" them all out before I make a decision.

Good luck and keep up the great work on the HT.

BTW: BPape is helping me too :) He's a real asset to this forum (and my HT construction). I recommend him to anyone building a HT.

Steve

HoMac

12-15-05, 04:16 PM

SmX

12-15-05, 08:48 PM

Ruben,

Contact Jason at AVS via email. He normally respondes quickly that way. His email is: jason@avscience.com. Pricing on the DaLite material is pretty darn good. They also sell the Stewart material bulk (at nearly 4x the price of the DaLite). I'm planning to build a 110" screen and cost will be a little over $200 for the DaLite material. Of course you need to figure in the cost of the DIY frame (wood or metal) -- but that is not much. I have samples of just about everyone's screen material and plan to "test" them all out before I make a decision.

Good luck and keep up the great work on the HT.

BTW: BPape is helping me too :) He's a real asset to this forum (and my HT construction). I recommend him to anyone building a HT.

Steve

$200.00 for a 110"? That is Super Cheap! I'm doing a 133" 16:9 Perforated Screen. What would it cost me to just buy the Material? I need a High Contrast Perforated Material. Once you Do those tests Please Let me Know.

How do you get all the Samples? I have the Projector Set up in the Dining room and would love to see the Difference in the Samples.

Also, How big are the Samples? 12" x 12"?

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

12-15-05, 08:53 PM

Sandman,

Your thread is like caffeine every morning. I am addicted. I am very impressed of your work and skills. I wish I could have these information was 1.5 years ago when I started my HT. One thing is certain, I save all your photos and descriptions in case if I build another one in the future. Keep the good work and feed us the caffeine.

-Mike

Thanks, Glad to be your Caffeine in the Morning :D I use to follow threads here too before I made the Jump into it. I was so motivated by all these guys here at AVS to Start my own.

The Caffeine should keep coming for at least another week, being that my helper messed his back up and had to take off till this Monday. So I will continue the updates on Monday (Hopefully) We would of been carpeting this Monday if it wasn't for his Back.

More to Come

swithey

12-15-05, 11:18 PM

$200.00 for a 110"? That is Super Cheap! I'm doing a 133" 16:9 Perforated Screen. What would it cost me to just buy the Material? I need a High Contrast Perforated Material. Once you Do those tests Please Let me Know.

How do you get all the Samples? I have the Projector Set up in the Dining room and would love to see the Difference in the Samples.

Also, How big are the Samples? 12" x 12"?

Thanks
Ruben
Ruben,

It's easy to get samples, you just go to the manufacture website and request the samples of the material you are looking for. I have samples from the following: DaLite, Stewart, Carada and Dazian Fabrics. Unfortunately, I do not have any of the perforated material (however samples are available). You may have to wait a few weeks to get them in. Here are a few specifics:

DaLite
http://www.dalite.com
Sample Size: 6" x 6"
Sales: Material only available (Jason Turk, jason@avscience.com)

Stewart
http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/
Sample Size: 9" x 11"
Sales: Material only available (Jason Turk, jason@avscience.com)

Carada
http://www.carada.com/
Sample Size: 11" x 14"
Sales: Cannot buy material only -- must buy entire screen (David Giles, davidg@carada.com)
AVS Thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=544728&page=1&pp=30

Dazian Fabrics (not sure if they have a perforated material)
http://www.dazian.com/
Sample Size: 6" x 11"
Sales: Material Only available. Buy off ebay retailer
AVS Thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6208260&&#post6208260

Also, I will not be making a choice until January '06 -- so I know you'll be done way before that -- sorry :(

Steve

chirpie

12-15-05, 11:48 PM

Thanks, Glad to be your Caffeine in the Morning :D I use to follow threads here too before I made the Jump into it. I was so motivated by all these guys here at AVS to Start my own.

The Caffeine should keep coming for at least another week, being that my helper messed his back up and had to take off till this Monday. So I will continue the updates on Monday (Hopefully) We would of been carpeting this Monday if it wasn't for his Back.

More to Come

Oh man, not the back! I've run into that problem in the second half of this year for the first time (at the tender age of 28) and I don't much like it. I've got an annular bulging disc in my lower back. It's pinching some nerves cutting off the feeling in my left leg. I don't much care for it. It's like having your leg asleep 24/7.

Tell him I feel for him. Ouch! ^_^;

ebr

12-16-05, 01:52 PM

Dazian doesn't have a "perforated" material, they have one better - a weave which some have tested to be basically acoustically transparent (look in the screens forum). The material is called Coated Celtic Cloth (you will see it referred to as CCC in the forums).

I got a sample from the a while back and plan to make my screen with it. However - I doubt it will be much more than 1.0 gain.

Gerry S

12-16-05, 02:17 PM

They actually do have a perf. But I am not sure if it's for home use what the cost is.

That said I plan to try out CCC.

dazian perf (http://www.dazian.com/html/projection_screens.html)

SmX

12-16-05, 02:19 PM

Hey Folks,

I just want to let you know, I have 134 feet of 50 Strand Fiber Optic Cable Left that I am going to sell. I have one run of 122 feet and another Run of 12 feet left. So 134 Feet all together.

For those that dont know, This is the left over Fiber from my Fiber Optic Star Ceiling I did in my Theater a couple pages back in this thread. It is the EG-50 Cable and I paid $4.35 a Foot for it. This is where I bought it from....
http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/Endglow.htm

Make me a reasonable offer and it's yours! I have a Pay Pal account too if that makes it easier for you.

If anyone is interested in it please PM me.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

12-17-05, 07:12 PM

Hey Guys,

I need your help here. Today my worker came in for a couple hours to clean up and to finish screwing down the platform for the chairs. We were discussing the Veneering of the columns and He Thinks I should do a Verticle Grain. I was thinking a horizontal grain to match the Light trays which have the horizontal grain.

He feels it would look more natural if the Grain of the Veneer ran verticle on the columns.

So I told him to hold off till Monday, and I would get the opinion from my fellow AVS brothers.

What do you guys think?

Thanks
Ruben

HTScotty

12-17-05, 07:19 PM

imo verticle would look more natural.

ebr

12-17-05, 07:31 PM

Definitely vertical. That's how real boards would look.

dllewel

12-17-05, 08:08 PM

I agree, verticle. The grain should run the length.

SVonhof

12-17-05, 08:55 PM

Verticle. Simple answer.

SmX

12-17-05, 10:11 PM

Ask for Help and you Shall Receive :) Thanks Guys!

So I guess Horizontal it is :D j/k

BIGmouthinDC

12-17-05, 11:03 PM

SmX

12-17-05, 11:22 PM

Wood veneer finish looks most natural when the grain runs the way solid wood would look if the columns were constructed out of solid wood. Most always that means the long way. In this case another vote for vertical.

Could you imagine an oak tree big enough to have an 8ft wide plank so that you could run it horizontal? It would just look odd until you figured it out.

Good Answer, Thanks!

The bottom of my columns are about 30" tall then there will be a 44" tall GoM for the Speaker (Martin Logan Script) then an 8" Wood Top. Here is a Quick to Size Drawing of the Columns and the Panels between them...

Light Tray on Top Runs Horizontal...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/columns.gif

BFauska

12-18-05, 12:17 AM

Now the question is which way to do the 8" wooden strip at the top of the column? As far as real wood goes, 8" wide boards would make the grain run horizontal and match the headers, but a board the same width as the one used to do the bottom of the columns could be used to run vertical and match the bases. WHAT TO DO NOW?

I vote horizontal on top to match the headers.

Later,
Brian

SmX

12-18-05, 03:31 AM

I hooked up the Optoma H-79 in my Den Area and was able to put the projector 16 feet from the Wall to get my 135" Screen. So I snapped some pictures for you guys. The image is quite amazing right out the box. This is without any calibration to the projector. There is a slight green Overcast that will be calibrated out when I set this up in the theater. This is straight on My Textured wall (Knock down Finish) The Wall is a Bone White/Light Beige color.

I placed my Camera on top of the Projector and took the pictures. The Pictures are not as clear as they could be because I had to compress them down for the Web or they would of been real big files.

Also, this is using a $200 Samsung DVD player hooked up with DVI.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shots-wall/DSC06260.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shots-wall/DSC06266.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shots-wall/DSC06268.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shots-wall/DSC06258.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shots-wall/DSC06263.jpg

swithey

12-18-05, 09:20 AM

I was thinking about this last night and vote for vertical also :)

Steve

Gerry S

12-18-05, 09:22 AM

simulated wood grain:

http://home.alltel.net/gerrys/images/wall.gif

bpape

12-18-05, 09:25 AM

I'd say make the strip on the top of the column the same as the bottom - vertical. That way it looks like 1 piece of wood with the black inserted. I just think it looks kind of odd the other way.

jbhungvt

12-18-05, 09:38 AM

I agree that vertical (for columns) will look more natural, even though i don't know anything about veneer etc.

I way I see it is, length wise (as in column), vertical, width wise, horizontal.

Gerry S

12-18-05, 12:27 PM

I'd say make the strip on the top of the column the same as the bottom - vertical. That way it looks like 1 piece of wood with the black inserted. I just think it looks kind of odd the other way.

Agreed - simulated wood grain changed!

SmX

12-18-05, 04:30 PM

Agreed - simulated wood grain changed!

Thanks for that Simulated Wood Grain Gerry S!

Ruben

SmX

12-18-05, 09:33 PM

I finished Assembling the Equipment Rack for the Theater. It's a Middle Atlantic Rack Model AX-SRX-43 that rolls out on a Service track and rotates so you can Wire it up (I have no access behind the rack room). It is a 43 space Rack.

Well anyway, after I get it all assembled I noticed it looked a bit tall. According to Middle Atlantic's Web Site, PDF & Assembly instructions, this rack is 75-1/4" Tall and needs to be 3" off the floor for the 31" service track. So 75-1/4" plus 3" is 78-1/4" from the Floor. I made my Rough Opening Exactly 80" Tall so the rack can fit right in there perfectly. Well guess what? The entire rack is 82-1/4" tall plus I need to add 3" to that for the Service Track. I somehow overlooked the Rough-in Measurements because they were not in my face like the 75-1/4" measurement was. So now I have to take it apart and cut the Rails down to size.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/axsxr123a5.gif

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/rack.jpg

Here is the Hottest thing for Christmas this Year. November 21st The Lines began and tents went up in front of Best Buy to get the 100 peices that came in for November 22 Release. Well once again Yesterday, The Tents went up in front of Best Buy waiting to get the 74 xBoxes they got In. They were sold out before the store even opened.

I gave up trying to get one after I exhausted all my Resources for 3 weeks and turned to eBay. I bid on a xBox 360 Premium System that was out in Canada and Won it for $711.00 plus Shipping. Well the guy I bought it from was really slow at responding after I Pay Paled him so I decided to bid on another System that I saw was local to me in Boca Raton. Well I ended up winning that one too for $750.00. Now all the Sudden the Guy in Canada says hey I'm ready to ship your xBox when I figured I would just cancel the Pay Pal to him since he Did not accept it yet, but he accepted the payment before I could cancel it. So anyway long story Short I ended up with 2 xBox 360 Premium Systems.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/xBox360.jpg

If anyone here absolutely needs an xBox 360 for his kid or personal, I am willing to do a trade or whatever. I really can't use 2 xBoxes and I may end up having to throw one on eBay. These things are impossible to buy at stores as you may already know.
Just PM me if interested.

By the way, People are selling empty shoe boxes with the words "xBox 360" written on them and people are buying them for $600.00 because they don't read the Description of the auction and get caught up in those last minute bids. Check this out...
http://www.2dorks.com/junk/xbox360.htm

Ruben

chinadog

12-18-05, 09:54 PM

Geez, all I can do is shake my head, Amazing.

Bud

SmX

12-18-05, 10:30 PM

These are the lights I been Looking for. Due to my situation, I can not use a Big Can Light in my 5" Tall light trays to shoot Downward. I wanted to have a small MR-16 type light but not Low Voltage. Well when I was in Specialty the other day buying Veneer, I found some line voltage MR-16 type Lights with a swivel Bulb. The glass lens on them is a little loose and can be easily modified to prevent rattling. These lights have a nice spread of light and can flood your walls nicely.

These come in Swivel or Non Swivel and come in a bunch of Colors from Chrome to Black. Best of all they stock them at Specialty by my house.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/lights/DSC06309.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/lights/DSC06310.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/lights/DSC06311.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/lights/DSC06319.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/lights/DSC06301.jpg

BIGmouthinDC

12-18-05, 10:38 PM

Ruben my turn to LOL, That rack story reminds me of when I tried to fit a 48 inch double door into a 50 inch wide rough opening. I had to get out the reciprocal saw and hack out a stud and reframe the door opening.

Anyway I'd be happy to swap you even my Sears reciprocal saw, handy plastic carry case and a hand full of metal cutting blades for one of those Xboxes.

SmX

12-18-05, 10:51 PM

BIGmouthinDC

12-18-05, 10:52 PM

SmX

12-18-05, 11:02 PM

Ruben:

YOU NEED TO BE REAL CAREFUL WITH THOSE LIGHTS. BE SURE THE AREA AROUND THEM IS TOTALLY OPEN and that they don't come any where close to that cotton batting . I'd use a a 12 inch saftey margin minimum.

I think I would enclose them in something non combustable just to be safe.

Thanks for the Tip. But these will be most likely going in my empty lght trays shooting down. There will be nothing near them to burn. The Light tray is 8" deep x 5" tall, more than enough space for ventilation. I can also put these in small cans I believe.

My trouble was, the height of 4" Line cans was a minimum of 6" tall and my light tray wall is 5 Inches tall and you would see the back of the cans and Wires sticking out.

SVonhof

12-19-05, 09:38 AM

Ruben, I was on ebay last week and found that there are places that make LED replacements for the standard 12 volt halogen bulbs. If you got the 12v fixtures and went with the LED bulbs, you could probably save a lot of heat build-up...
http://w6trade.com/images/bulbs/MR16/mr%20spot1.JPG
Ebay item: 4426579429

There are also some GU10 bulbs that use LED's from the same guy, ebay item 6022441110
http://www.w6trade.com/b29.jpg

ebr

12-19-05, 10:38 AM

Hey Sandman - I tried looking back in the thread but couldn't find the answer - did you end up anchoring your stage to anything (walls or floor)?

SmX

12-19-05, 11:02 AM

Ruben, I was on ebay last week and found that there are places that make LED replacements for the standard 12 volt halogen bulbs. If you got the 12v fixtures and went with the LED bulbs, you could probably save a lot of heat build-up...

There are also some GU10 bulbs that use LED's from the same guy, ebay item 6022441110

Thanks SVonhof,

But I am tyring to stay away from Low voltage. The heat is not going to be an issue for me. These lights will probably never see full power anyway. But That is a pretty cool alternative for low voltage applications.

Ruben

SmX

12-19-05, 11:07 AM

Hey Sandman - I tried looking back in the thread but couldn't find the answer - did you end up anchoring your stage to anything (walls or floor)?

Nope, I did not anchor the stage to anything. It has a 1/4" space between it and the walls around it. I used Foam on the Roll all around the Stage to prevent any possible knocking issues. Also used Foam on the roll under the Stage on all the joists.

Ruben

SmX

12-19-05, 03:30 PM

The 134' of Fiber Cable I had left has been sold.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

12-19-05, 08:15 PM

Update... Columns

The good thing about My Thread is you get to see How Messy we are at Building. Don't let all those other Threads that show nice clean pre-constuction Pictures Fool you. They were all dirty like mine :D They just cleaned up before taking the Pictures ;) . SandmanX shows you the Raw and Dirty Side :D

Well anyway, I feel the Columns may be a bit to big for the Room. They look great in the Renders but as you will see, they are a bit bigger in person. We still need to build out the Walls 2" to accomodate the Treatments, and right now the Columns are 12" x 17.5" against the Drywall. Once the 2" treatments go up, the Columns will look 10" x 17.5".

What do you guys think? Should I make them less Deep?

These are the After The Cleanup Shots :D

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/coulumns-web/DSC06321.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/coulumns-web/DSC06332.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/coulumns-web/DSC06333.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/coulumns-web/DSC06334.jpg

SmX

12-19-05, 08:16 PM

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/coulumns-web/DSC06336.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/coulumns-web/DSC06342.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/coulumns-web/DSC06344.jpg

v1rtu0s1ty

12-19-05, 09:24 PM

I really like your thread because I'm learning a lot. But there are things that are giving me worries. Those are (a)building the airduct in the basement and (b) electrical. I'm weak in those areas. I have very small knowledge on it. Will I have an airduct in my basement once the house is built?

Question about your columns. What are the wires inside the columns used for?

Awesome HT construction btw! ;) Keep up the good work!!!

SmX

12-19-05, 09:45 PM

Luke_Y

12-19-05, 11:02 PM

Ruben, I think that once the 2" treatments go up they will look good at 10". Don't start doubting your vision now. ;)

Rob_McArthur

12-20-05, 01:28 AM

Hi Reuben,

I am in the process of building my second theater now and probably about the same as you and chinadog into it. I have built my columns as well but attached them to the wall and allowed an airgap between them and the riser/stage. It seemed to me that a lot of people were being careful to allow an airgap between the wall and riser and then attaching columns to the wall and riser in effect causing a short-circuit. How will your columns be attached? Do they come into contact with your riser?

I personally like the size of your columns mine are 12x12 before treatment which will reduce the appearance of them to 11x12.

Great work thus far, I love the ceiling.

I am going to need to post my own construction thread soon and stop lurking!

Rob :)

SmX

12-20-05, 02:08 AM

Rob_McArthur

12-20-05, 03:17 AM

This is just my own personal opinion based on the fact that I have always heard that you should not tie your riser and stage to the sidewalls. I noticed you had replied to someone that you left a 1/4 airgap between them. It just seemed to me that a lot of people would then fasten the columns to their walls and then rest them on their stage/risers which would allow a mechanical path for vibration from one to the other and a possible source of noise during heavy bass etc. My proscenium also does not touch my stage for the same reason. Maybe I'm just a little anal......ok I know I am. I have over a year of construction in my HT working about 5-6 nights a week, but I'm getting there!

Rob :)

BIGmouthinDC

12-20-05, 11:45 AM

SmX

12-20-05, 02:27 PM

Sandman, If you decide to redo the columns and make them less deep you could easily just run them through the table saw and cut off the back 1 1/2 inch (two passes) then reattach new supports. Much quicker then rebuilding.

I spoke to chirpie and Found out he used 12" x 18" columns in my theater for the renders. For some reason, they look much smaller in the Renders than in life in my theater.

Unfortunately they are Glued and Nailed good to the wall. So Basically they are gonna have to come out either easy or hard. Also, my dream was to do Half Round Columns originally, but I was never able to find them Locally in the Size I needed. So I just stuck to the Standard Square Columns. My Problem is I don't like to be Standard and I want to go the extra mile to get something I can enjoy forever. The Last thing I want is to sit in the Theater with Columns I did because it was the easy route.

So today I went to Specialty and found some 8" Quarter Rounds so we joined 2 of them together to get our 16" half Round. I built 2 of them to See what they are going to look like in the room before I decide to rip these columns down.

This is pretty much the look I always Liked and this is what I am trying to Achieve with the Panels and Columns except The Columns will be a little bigger in Red Oak Veneer Stained Red with Black/Stainless Steel Insets.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/ellipse_1.jpg

SVonhof

12-20-05, 03:00 PM

SmX

12-20-05, 03:14 PM

Ruben, while I applaud you for wanting to do things the way you want and not conform to some artificial standard, I have a question. Are you going to have your speakers in the columns? I had thought you were going to, until you started talking about making them half-rounds. Also, what you may want to do with the half-rounds is add some 2" wide strips to them basically to stand them off from the wall, so that when you add your 2" of wall treatment, you don't have to figure out how to fit that to the curve of the 16" round. Does that make any sense?
Here is an image:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/SVonhof/halfrounds.jpg

Thanks for your concern SVonhof,

The Half rounds would sit on top of a 2" x 2" on the Drywall. The Speakers going in them are Either Martin Logan Scripts which are 44" tall x 10" wide x 6" deep. Or, I may do the Triad Inwall Surround Silvers for the Columns which are a little under 15" x 15" x 4" to not have such a big Grill. The Surrounds are still an varible option at this point.

Thanks
Ruben

SVonhof

12-20-05, 03:36 PM

I didn't have time to go check out the ML Scripts, but just make sure that the shape of the speakers will not inhibit the use of them in the shape of the column:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/SVonhof/ml-scripts.jpg

Of course, this is probably not going to be an issue, but figured I would point this out to others for future, so they don't get stuck in a situation where the speakers don't fit right, since you have to take it all into consideration.

SmX

12-20-05, 05:12 PM

Here are the Quarter Rounds glued and Nailed together to complete the Half Round.
Our plans are to Bondo & Sand the Front Seam to smooth it out.
Then Veneer the Half Rounds and Router out the Grooves for the Insets. Then Stain,

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/DSC06378.jpg

SmX

12-22-05, 12:21 AM

Guys,
What columns do you guys think will look better in our theater?

I really need your help here once again. We Did a quick Column to try to see how the coumns flow with the room. I am stuck between the 2 now. The Round Columns look a little Small and may get lost in the Room, they are 16" Diameter. The Square columns feel to big.

I think the square columns feel to big to me because they are not finished and the room is not finished. I think the Round columns are looking Small because they are next to the Big Square Columns. I think both options will look good regardless once they get Stained and completed properly.

I need to get some help on this one because right now I am Stuck. What do you guys think?

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/round-columns/DSC06433.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/round-columns/DSC06442.jpg

I made the Oak Red in Photoshop in the 2 pictures below. The is not the actual Stain Color.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/round-columns/DSC06440.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/round-columns/DSC06437.jpg

Z06Racer

12-22-05, 12:37 AM

I love the round colums. I will be copying those:)

kingdome1964

12-22-05, 01:23 AM

no question, with out a doubt ROUND!
anyone can build a square and everyone does, ROUND!
for the love of god, ROUND:)

if you look at my album you can see I am a circle fan.
http://kingdome1964.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php

Rob_McArthur

12-22-05, 01:30 AM

Hi Reuben,

I vote for the square columns because I like balance and symmetry. The round columns are very nice but I feel they would be more suited to a room with more "round" in the room. Most of what I see in your is, like mine, very squared off ie. your soffits, riser, ceiling panels etc. If you had a curved face on your riser a curved ceiling dome and such maybe they would "fit" a little better in my opinion. I also noticed the picture you posted of the theater with round columns had a lot of "round" in it so I think it works. The square columns also come out further under the soffits and look like they are actually supporting the soffit.

Either way I'm sure it will look great!

Just my 1.5 cents.

Rob :)

SmX

12-22-05, 01:37 AM

Thanks Guys for your Responses. My Stage Front, The Soffit Above the Stage and Platform Front all has curves in them. So The Room isn't Completely Squared. But I understand what you mean.

The Typical Square Columns are the Easy way out for Me and the Rounds are not. I just never see Round Columns in Theaters and its a look I like. Also, when my theater gets finished and looks anything like my Renders, I will Still be happy. So either way it's a win, win situation for me. I just like to go the extra mile if it's worth it.

Thanks
Ruben

PS. for the people who wanted me to Post a Step by Step Veneering process, I took pictures and will post it tomorrow (or later today).

exipnos

12-22-05, 01:48 AM

I think definately round, especially if you don't like standard stuff. I have not seen renders of your square columns but these definately look amazing. Especially with the black lines.

One question though. How are you planning on dealing with the speaker issue? Will you cut a square area in the middle and put speaker cloth? That will change the look a bit but I'm sure it will look good anyway.

If you decide you want to redo the columns and round does not fit in your room, then take a look at these PeterS columns

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/11900/size/big/ppuser/83

They are not completely square but have an angled cut towards the front. I love them....

chinadog

12-22-05, 07:20 AM

I like the square, BUT its probably because are in the same picture of the round so the round looks out of place and I'm so used to seeing square. I think if you're doing fabric in sections as described that the round will really have a better impact though. With that said, I think that the round would grow on me. If you're trying to achieve that TK design you pointed to, the round will work nicely.

Bud

swithey

12-22-05, 08:31 AM

Ruben,

I like the round myself -- especially the hoizontal bands (which I think you said will be brushed metal inlays). It does look a little more challenging, but the overall look (I think) will be awesome.

One other guy on AVS did some round columns (not sure what his name is). Here is a pic of his HT. His are more rounded on the front with a deep square side.

http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/misc/roundcolumns.jpg

SVonhof

12-22-05, 09:03 AM

Ruben, how about you leave room for the columns to be 16" wide and keep working on the room. You can then put in either the round or some 16" wide rectangular columns.

Also, if you are thinking the rounds are going to fade away into the walls, since they don't look as if they are supporting the soffits, why not do what I had shown in the left image that I posted on post #338? The columns will come out from the wall more once everything is complete that way.

BIGmouthinDC

12-22-05, 09:48 AM

Fading away into the walls is all a factor of difference in color and value (light versus dark) between the columns and the adjacent wall not the shape. The bigger the difference the more they stand out.

I'm curious where you are going to put the speakers in that thing. But I like the round.

MaximAvs

12-22-05, 09:58 AM

Ruben...

I love the round columns! It breaks up and otherwise rectangular space with a little softness!

You really moving on your theater!! Keep the pics coming!!

Sean

SVonhof

12-22-05, 10:20 AM

swithey

12-22-05, 10:29 AM

Sean, I looked at the pics of your "Boom Boom Room". My first question is: Are you married?

The reason I ask is because of the pictures you have on your walls, since my wife would never let me put some nice art-work like that on the walls! :)
Sean,

I was thinking the same thing as Scott. Hey, when I was growing up, one of my neighbors (married) had pinups on the garage walls. So I guess the new 21st century garage is the 'ole HT :rolleyes: :D

darkman2003

12-22-05, 11:59 AM

My two cents is for the square columns it gives the room more balance.

darkman.

MaximAvs

12-22-05, 12:29 PM

SV & swithey...

Yup, I'm married. Actually just got married in June!
It told the wife I wanted to build a Home theater and lounge and wanted a guy lounge. She thought it was a great idea, and she actually bought me the calander that the pictures came from. It was called "Silicone Valley" :D
The wife wouldn't approve any Playboy kind of pictures, but doesn't mind these ones at all.
Needless to say we don't have kids.

Sean

SmX

12-22-05, 12:43 PM

Thanks for all your responses Guys. So it looks like I will do what I really like and a majority of you guys like, the Rounds. Last night I moved them forward to stick out a little further than the Square columns and they looked perfectly sized for the room. It was the depth that was making them look so small. The width on the round columns are 16" and the Square columns widths are 17.5".

This is the Type of ideas I am looking at for doing on the columns...

TOP VIEW

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Columns-Layout.gif

HeyNow^

12-22-05, 12:47 PM

Scott,

I showed your pics to my wife a while back and we really love the tub/club chairs you have and have been looking to replicate your seating arrangement. Did you get the chairs locally?

Thanks, we both love your bar/lounge/cinema arrangement. We are doing the same.

MaximAvs

12-22-05, 01:47 PM

Ruben...

For your last option, are you going to have to modify the columns!?

It seems the other 2 options are very similar.

Peronally, and going with an image in my head, I think the last option would be cleaner look without being busy. But the first 2 might be easier to install.

Sean

SmX

12-22-05, 02:51 PM

I'm Thinking Option 1 or 2. Reason why, is because I set one up and I love it. It gives me the round I want also has Square and I can run a black Wood Trim down the Sides of the Columns to break them up from the wall. Also it doesn't look so Small with the block on the Back and it makes it look like its really supporting the Soffit. Of course it will all get veneered so it will almost look like a peice of furniture.

Good Bye Old Columns, Hello New! :D

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Columns-Crushed.jpg

SmX

12-22-05, 02:55 PM

Hey Sean,

Yes, for the Last Option I would have to extend the Legs of the Columns to make it stick Out more. Either way it's still modifications that need to be done.

The Option 1 & 2 way have much more of a bolder look than option 3.

Thanks
Ruben

swithey

12-22-05, 03:29 PM

I like option #1 or #2 also. You sure are making me think in the same direction for my HT.... round columns, hmmm.

BTW -- You've got PM :)

MaximAvs

12-22-05, 04:06 PM

Ruben..

MAN!!! :eek: You don't mess around! Just tear that stuff out!!
Were you going to put banding on the columns?!

Sean

SmX

12-22-05, 06:23 PM

The Banding is still up in the Air. I'm doing 5 wide Panels between the columns (Like 16" x 60" Wide). I May line the lines of the Panels up with the bands of the columns so it flows around the room (See the TK Theater Picture I posted 2 pages back).

BPape said I should Prob break the Lines up at the Columns. I'm def gonna do 1/2" Inset Bands, I was trying to decide on either 1/2" or 3/4"s wide insets before. You can see I did both widths in the Close up of the Column on the previous Page.

If anyone has some Band Positioning ideas, please chime in.

Thanks
Ruben

Ruben..

MAN!!! :eek: You don't mess around! Just tear that stuff out!!
Were you going to put banding on the columns?!

Sean

bpape

12-22-05, 07:37 PM

Yeah, I was thinking to do a double band relatively close together toward the top and another at the bottom. Maybe that's it. OR maybe add one more band in the center. Just something so you don't have the lines all around the room. It looks cool when it's all panels with bevels - very clean. But when you put the columns in, they naturally break the flow of the lines.

Maybe it's just me but every time I see round ones with all those inlays in them nice and symmetric, it looks like stacked barrels or like you only had narrow pieces of veneer to work with. When the banding is more subdued, It's more like a nice looking solid wood carved column with decorative accents.

Just my 2 cents - but not my theater. You gotta do what YOU like.

Rob_McArthur

12-23-05, 12:02 AM

I like how you combined the square into the round. Considering how many round surfaces you already have in the room I think that combo will look fantastic. Having them come out further further from the wall to "support" the soffit more remedies the other concern I had for them looking a little weak/small. I think you combined them very well now to achieve a unique look that follows the lines of your room. I think it will be worth the effort in rebuilding!

SmX

12-23-05, 02:16 AM

VENEERING

As Promised here is the procedure we Use to Veneer. I will use the columns to show how we put them together and veneered them...

Here is what the Columns started off as. These are 8" Quarter Rounds. Someone may ask "why didn't you just buy Half Rounds?" It's because Half rounds were nowhere to be found Locally in the size I wanted. I found a few places in NY, WA and Cali that Carried them, but they were around $160.00 each plus shipping for 96" 18" Half Rounds. These 8" Quarter rounds were $45.00 each and were in stock at Specialty by my house.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/quarter-rounds.jpg

We Built a quick Jig on the Stage and Platform using screws an spacing them 16" apart to hold the 2 8" quarter rounds together. We used Pro-Bond Glue and 1" Staples to tie the 2 quarters together.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/DSC06378.jpg

Once the glu dried over Night, we added a 1" x 2" strip inside the column over the Seam for More Support.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/column-sanded-2.jpg

Next, we had to smooth out that seam in the front where the 2 quarters butt together. So we first sanded down the Seam and then added a quick coat of Bondo...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/bondo-column.jpg

After a half hour, Sand that bondo down to smooth it out and Sand the rest of the column to make Sure it has no bumps on it. You don't want a bump under your Veneer.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/column-sanded-1.jpg

All Sanded and Ready for Veneer.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/column-sanded.jpg

Continued...

SmX

12-23-05, 02:18 AM

Part 2

Measure and Cut your Veneer...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/cut-veneer.jpg

Here is the Glue we use to attach the Veneer...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/veneer-glue.jpg

Here is the spray gun we use to apply the glue to the Veneer. A spray gun is not necessary but it makes the job faster instead of having to dip the roller in glue every 2 seconds.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/spray-gun.jpg

FIll the Gun with the Glue and do some test spray patterns on a scrap of wood or Cardboard.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/fill-gun.jpg

Spray the glue on the Column First...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/spray-veneer-on.jpg

Then Smooth it out and spread it on with a Special roller for Veneer Glue or Contact cement...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/roll-glue-on.jpg

Then Spray and roll the Veneer Glue on the back of the Veneer...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/glue-veneer-back.jpg

Continued...

SmX

12-23-05, 02:19 AM

Part 3

Let Glue set for like 10 minutes or until it is almost not tacky then cover glued veneer back with Craft Paper to protect it while putting it on the Column or whatever your applying the veneer to. The Craft Paper helps make sure you don't accidentally put the veneer on in the wrong place. Once this sticks it is Stuck forever...

Look at the Bottom of the Trash can in this picture on the right, that's not Green Glue, is it? :D

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/add-paper.jpg

Put veneer on Column with craft paper in between. Adjust position of veneer on column.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/adjust-veneer.jpg

Once adjusted remove paper from one Side and press veneer down against column making Sure there is no air bubbles and smoothing it out from inside out.
Then gradually remove the rest of the paper as you work your way around the rest of the Column. Make sure there is no air Bubbles...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/remove-paper.jpg

Next, Use your Hard roller to compress the veneer onto the column using pressure. This roller makes sure your Veneer is flat against your Wood without any air bubbles. The harder you press, the less likely you will have any air bubbles...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/hard-rolling.jpg

Next, Trim off all your Excess veneer using a utility knife or a Laminate trimmer...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/trimming.jpg

Then Wallah! Your all Finished Veneering.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/finished.jpg

After you trim off your excess Veneer, do a light sanding to the edges you trimmed off to smooth it Out. Then sand the whole Veneer to prep it for Sealer and Stain.

Happy Veneering!
Ruben

SmX

12-23-05, 03:00 AM

Here is the Trim For the Equipment Rack. This Trim is 2" thick to be flush with the wall treatments. This frame is made out of MDF and is Veneered.

Front...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/racktrim/DSC06449.jpg

Front Close...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/racktrim/DSC06450.jpg

Back

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/racktrim/DSC06451.jpg

swithey

12-23-05, 07:49 AM

Dcostanza

12-23-05, 08:16 AM

SandmanX
very nice approach and craftmanship!

Best regards
Don

darkman2003

12-23-05, 12:41 PM

SmX

12-23-05, 01:57 PM

Sandman,
As always awesome step by step details keep up the great work. You should
make a mini booklet out of this thread .I'll be the first one inline to purchase it !!!
I'm really looking forward seeing your walls done with fabricmate system.
DARKMAN

Thanks,

I don't think were gonna use the Fabricmate system. I really don't like the Bevel they have on the system. We may just do the Panels the Old Fashion way (with lots of Staples).

Plus, the treatments are going to be 2" deep and the fabric mate system only comes in 1/2" & 1". That means we would have to Rip 2"x 2"s down to 1.25" and use those to fur the Walls out before we can use the Fabric Mate System. We may just rip some 1 x 3s down to 1" x 2" and build frames and wrap them. It takes me about 10 minutes to staple the fabric to a frame. The Room is going to have about 25 wide Panels.

Z06Racer

12-23-05, 02:32 PM

Absolutely beautiful. I am very impressed with your craftsmanship.

maximavwife

12-23-05, 02:58 PM

As Sean's wife I can tell you I honestly approve of the "Art" in the Boom Boom Room. They add a lot to the ambiance of the room. In my mind it's such a small way to make him happy. And, if Maximavs is happy, Maximavwife is happy:) My only complaint would be, he needs to update the link with new pictures as he has added and made some changes to the room.

Kath

SVonhof

12-23-05, 04:34 PM

So, Kath, I don't know you, but why didn't you pose for the pictures? Now, that would be a very personal art show. :)

BTW, you don't have to answer that.

Gerry S

12-23-05, 05:12 PM

SmX

12-23-05, 05:25 PM

this may be a stupid question, but here goes.

What does the 8" refer to? is it the arc length? when you put two 8" half rounds together, what is the resulting radius of the semi-circle?

thanks for clarifying.

8" is the Radius/Curve of the Bend. So if you put 2 8" radius pieces together you get a 16" Half round.

Ruben

maximavwife

12-23-05, 10:12 PM

Scott,
You assume I didn't pose? ;)

Kath
Merry Christmas to all

SmX

12-23-05, 11:30 PM

Merry Christmas Every One!

Well Today we ripped the Wood and Built the Boxes for the back of the Columns.
We did a Mock up Column and Put it against the Wall, and All I can say is ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE!

I AM SO HAPPY I took this Route and not the standard column Route. I have never felt happier about a last minute change like this in my life.
These columns even stick out about 3" more than the previous Square Columns but are so much less intrusive. They are Bold, Slick, Rich, Elegant and Modern all together IMO and I Absolutely Love them. These are my Pre Christmas Present :)

All I need to Figure out Now is the inset horizontal line Pattern to Use on the Columns.

Here are the completed Half Rounds Waiting for Bondo and Sanding and Veneer...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-columns/DSC06472.jpg

Here are the Boxes for the Back of the Columns...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-columns/DSC06473.jpg

Here is Some Pictures of the Mock Up Column. The Veneer on the Sides of the Box are not on yet, just held in Place with Spray adhesive for now...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-columns/DSC06467.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-columns/DSC06458.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-columns/DSC06462.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-columns/DSC06460.jpg

jerrodshook

12-23-05, 11:45 PM

Man, those look sharp! It's getting very frustrating reading your thread, your HT moving at warp speed 9.... damn I'm jealous!

SmX

12-23-05, 11:55 PM

Man, those look sharp! It's getting very frustrating reading your thread, your HT moving at warp speed 9.... damn I'm jealous!

Thanks Man, Merry Christmas! Don't be Jealous, Be Motivated. Sometimes it's good to hire an assistant to Help you stay committed to the Project (If your doing it yourself). I slacked Off a couple months due to Hurricanes and change of Plans. With myself, Most of the work is thinking of good ways to make things better. I would of been done by now if I didn't redesign my theater 20 times in the process :)

But Hey, It's all worth it in the end. I am extremely happy with all the decisions I made so far and feel this theater will bring years of enjoyment to me and my Family.

jerrodshook

12-24-05, 12:03 AM

You should be happy, your HT is gonna kick a$$!!! I haven't had hurricanes, but I've had ridiculous amounts of work/travel, deaths in family, etc.... I have the last 5% of wrapup stuff to get past my first inspection. Fire blocking is a PITA! I just want to clear the first inspection so I can start drywall, get my RSIC up, and start to see something other than wires and stud walls.....

BTW, everytime I see your chairs I drool. They are really sweet! And the starlight ceiling is cool too. I think you've inspired me to try that, with my wife's blessing and approval too. She really like yhow yours looked.

bpape

12-24-05, 12:36 AM

I gotta say that the mockup looks great. Those will definitely be an attention getter and a beautiful part of the decor.

SmX

12-24-05, 12:42 AM

Ruben,

As always, awesome job. Thanks for the step-by-step "how-to" on the Veneering. This will be very helpful.

One thing I wanted to ask you about is the banding you plan to add to the columns. Do you plan to use a simple router technique to get those grooves? I was planning to go this direction but was worried it might splinter the veneer when cutting. However, if it's stuck "hard" the column the way you say it is, it may not be a problem.

Also, how do you plan to cut the hole for the speakers to produce a nice straight square opening? Using a skil saw or somehow with your table saw?

Yep, we just Set up a Guide and Router it. We actually attached a 8" 1/4 Round curved plywood to the Router to keep the same depth of the inset all around the column. The Router does not chip the veneer its a real smooth finished cut when done. A light sanding smooths it out completely.

As far as cutting Speaker Holes, that will be a matter of setting up a guide on the column and using a hand held circular saw or Jigsaw.

Ruben

skyman00

12-24-05, 02:09 AM

As far as cutting Speaker Holes, Ruben

Ruben-
You've had me very perplexed on this issue and I can't wait to see how you address this. BTW, just beautiful! -j

swithey

12-24-05, 10:14 AM

Yep, we just Set up a Guide and Router it. We actually attached a 8" 1/4 Round curved plywood to the Router to keep the same depth of the inset all around the column. The Router does not chip the veneer its a real smooth finished cut when done. A light sanding smooths it out completely.

As far as cutting Speaker Holes, that will be a matter of setting up a guide on the column and using a hand held circular saw or Jigsaw.

Ruben
Ruben,

Thanks for the explanation. I like the idea of he 8 1/4" guide for the router.

SmX

12-24-05, 11:45 AM

Ruben-
You've had me very perplexed on this issue and I can't wait to see how you address this. BTW, just beautiful! -j

It's a rather Simple procedure. With the column not attached to the box, we use a Pencil to mark out our opening. Basically it's 2 lines that get drawn across the column from one end to the other Horizontally. Then we measure the distance from the Blade to the Guide on the Saw. Then Bend some 3/8" Bendable plywood around the column as a guide and clamp it down so it doesn't move. Then Simply cut your horizontal cuts. These 2 cuts wil turn the 1 column into 3 peieces and we Simple remove the middle piece which gives us our opening.

As far as making a speaker grill, thats pretty easy too. All you do is cut 2 1" x 16" pieces horizontally (from the Half Round middle piece you cut out before) to have your perfect radius pieces. Then a couple straight pieces for the sides, attach the 4 pieces together with Staples and Glue to Make your Frame, like any other frame. Obviously make sure the piece your making fits into the opening on the column. Then Paint the Frame Black or whatever color your GoM is. Then wrap it with some GoM pulling tight from top to bottom and not so tight from side to side. The GoM will contour to the radius of the Columns. Pop some hinges inside 1 side of the Grill if you want it to swing open with velcro on the other to keep it closed. Or you can just Velcro the whole grill so it pops off.

Ruben

SVonhof

12-24-05, 11:52 AM

SmX

12-24-05, 11:55 AM

Ruben, when making those grills, you may need a stiffener at the half-way point on the radius, so that stretching the GOM does not bend the two radius pieces over time. Just a thought, but I am sure you will deal with whatever comes at you just fine! If you do need a stiffener, it won't take much, you could even use a small diameter dowel.

Yep, could be very true. We will see how stiff the frame is once done. The GoM wont be pulled so Tight that it would bend it anyway. But you do have a valid point that can be simply addressed.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

12-24-05, 03:49 PM

Few Updates...

Got My Lutron GRX-3106-A Grafik Eye. Got it for $499.00 on eBay brand new.

The Xantech IR repeater System is on the Way Total Cost for this with Shipping was $261.23

Got my 4/1 DVI Switcher. Cost $314.00

The BTX MotorDrape arrived Damage thanks to UPS, so the company is sending out a new Kit to us. Price $495.00

The Middle Atlantic Custom Rack Shelves are on their way.
I ordered 7 custom Shelves. Price $574.07

135" Screen is on the way with Pro Trim & Shipping. Total Price $1,697.48

Total for this round of equipment $3,840.78

skyman00

12-24-05, 05:05 PM

It's a rather Simple procedure. With the column not attached to the box, we use a Pencil to mark out our opening. Basically it's 2 lines that get drawn across the column from one end to the other Horizontally. Then we measure the distance from the Blade to the Guide on the Saw. Then Bend some 3/8" Bendable plywood around the column as a guide and clamp it down so it doesn't move. Then Simply cut your horizontal cuts. These 2 cuts wil turn the 1 column into 3 peieces and we Simple remove the middle piece which gives us our opening.

As far as making a speaker grill, thats pretty easy too. All you do is cut 2 1" x 16" pieces horizontally (from the Half Round middle piece you cut out before) to have your perfect radius pieces. Then a couple straight pieces for the sides, attach the 4 pieces together with Staples and Glue to Make your Frame, like any other frame. Obviously make sure the piece your making fits into the opening on the column. Then Paint the Frame Black or whatever color your GoM is. Then wrap it with some GoM pulling tight from top to bottom and not so tight from side to side. The GoM will contour to the radius of the Columns. Pop some hinges inside 1 side of the Grill if you want it to swing open with velcro on the other to keep it closed. Or you can just Velcro the whole grill so it pops off.

Ruben

Ruben-
Be sure and take some pics during this process and link them here; I really want to see this as I'm sure many others do too!
Thanks for the explanation. -j

swithey

12-25-05, 10:45 AM

135" Screen is on the way with Pro Trim & Shipping. Total Price $1,697.48
Ruben,

So you decided to buy a "pre-made" screen vs. a DIY? Is that the DaLite or Carada? What screen material did you end up selecting?

Steve

SmX

12-25-05, 11:16 AM

Ruben,

So you decided to buy a "pre-made" screen vs. a DIY? Is that the DaLite or Carada? What screen material did you end up selecting?

Steve

Merry Christmas Everyone,

I went with the Da-Lite Fixed Frame Cinema Contour, Perforated High Contrast Cinema Vision with the Pro Trim.

Ruben

SmX

12-25-05, 11:17 AM

Ruben-
Be sure and take some pics during this process and link them here; I really want to see this as I'm sure many others do too!
Thanks for the explanation. -j

Will Do.

BIGmouthinDC

12-26-05, 10:03 AM

SmX

12-26-05, 11:30 AM

Your project is screaming. Great job.

I noticed that you said that you didn't think you were going to use the Fabricmate and would go the furring strip route. That's what I did.

I don't know if you thought about the implications but one is that you really shouldn't fasten the columns (the side rail part) to the wall until the fabric is up.

That way you can fold the fabric over the side furring strips, staple, then mount the column side rails hiding the staples.

Thanks,

It won't be screaming to me until I get some Damn color In that room. I'm sick of looking at Drywall and Wood.

As far as the walls, The panels will be made off the Wall and then hung with Industrial Velcro on mounting blocks. Pretty much the same way Greg Powers did his panels.

Duaned

12-26-05, 01:43 PM

This would be cool, if there was a way to get them to twinkle it would be cool.

There is not a lot of info about the lenght of the optical cable but it appears that there are three different lengths in each bundle. Lets say you use about 2-3 bundles per panel the total cost for a similar size as sandman might be something like 3 or 4 times 17$. Thats quite cool if it works.

Im not in the US so I can't try it out for now. If somebody is willing to try please let us know how it went. Okay end of my thread jacking. Back to sandmans amazing build.

Cheers,

Exipnos[/QUOTE]

SmX

12-26-05, 02:00 PM

SmX

12-26-05, 07:28 PM

Need your Help Guys.

As you May already know, I did my Columns, Light Tray and Rack Trim in Red Oak Wood Veneer. I will be staining this Veneer a deep Cherry Red/Rosenut color so the finish looks Identical to the B&W 802 Speakers in Rosenut or the Paradigms Rosenut FInish for those who never seen the B&W's.

The Problem I am facing is how to break up the Color of the columns with the Walls/Panels of the Room. The original Plan called for Red Walls with Red Columns and Black Trim. Well I now feel it's gonna be a little too much red going on and I really want to accent these Columns from the walls.

So I threw a quick idea together to see what you guys have to say as far as breaking it up. What I do know for certain is the Veneer will be Stained a Rosenut/Deep Cherry Red. The large Red panel looks empty to me, maybe I should break It up into a few Beveled frames? Also, I will be accent lighting all 6 Columns with spot lights shooting down from the soffit.

Please do not be shy to shine in :) and If you have any ideas PLEASE tell me.

The Colors of the Panels below are Black and the rug is too. They look dark grey in the drawing below. Also, the Grain of the wood on the columns Is not that big, it is more like the light trays above them.

This is with Accent Lighting...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Theater-wall-idea-2.jpg

Thanks
Ruben

BIGmouthinDC

12-26-05, 08:47 PM

Make a decorative wall medallion out of metallic laminate and curved outward along the lines of this shape:

I think a dark ruby metallic

SmX

12-26-05, 10:31 PM

Thanks BigMouth! But Metallic Medalions on the wall will be a distraction if the Projector light bounces off them.

I did another version with Black panels. Just trying to kick some idea's around

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Theater-wall-ideas-2.jpg

Thanks
Ruben

MPDXrules

12-26-05, 11:51 PM

black top /bottom really shows off that trim, why not go black with a larger piece of trim

KWhite

12-27-05, 02:41 AM

oooh, like the black or maybe a dark charcol grey.

exipnos

12-27-05, 04:32 AM

This would be cool, if there was a way to get them to twinkle it would be cool.

They Do Twinkle. You Must of not read my part on the Star Panels. They contain Light boxes that have twinkle wheels.

Small confusion, I belive Duaned was refeering to the DIY solution using fibre optic bundles from IKEA while SandmanX was refeering to his own solution that indeed has the twinkle capability.

For the IKEA diy, they don't have twinkle capability but there might be a way of adding it. It all depends on the light source within the optic bundles. One way is to use one of those cheap electronic kits that can control lights such as the FK130: 3 Channel Dancing Light Kit or fk144: DC Chasing Light Kit 6 Program at http://store.qkits.com/category.cfm/LIGHT.

ebr

12-27-05, 09:44 AM

Even though it is all "red" the stained wood and the red GOM panels should still look pretty different.

What if you painted the "box" portion of the columns black? That would break up the wall and keep your original scheme.

SVonhof

12-27-05, 02:07 PM

SmX

12-27-05, 02:21 PM

I am not throwing my opinion one way or the other, but adding to ebr's comment of painting the back box of the columns black. Instead of painting them black, why not use the black analine dye like I have used on my equipment rack and J. L. used on his speakers in the Very High Quality DIY speakers thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=170942)
The black comes out better than any black stain would allow, since it is a dye and still allows the grain of the wood to come through.

Thanks the link SVonhof, I just checked that thread out, pretty impressive. Let me play around with that Idea of black stain in Photoshop here and see how it looks. I will Post the picture in a few.

Thanks
Ruben

61 flat-top

12-27-05, 10:48 PM

First off let me add .... awesome thread! I am like yourself where I will unfortunately continue to throw spent money at a project until I am happy with the results and function. I have caught myself spending the same money three or four times.... oh well, like my grandfather (everybody's grandfather / father for that matter) used to say... " you live and you learn"
Second of all... I totally agree, you have way to much monochromatic theme happening and you are going to loose alot of those details you have been busting your butt for. I would consider either a stainless or aluminum in a brushed or "engine turned" finish as a border or an accent. If you go black, you might as well stay red because you are going to loose depth and color with that as well.....
I Do have to say, fortunately for me now... I live in a log home and all of my logs are rough cut hand hewn logs.... so I can cheat will all rough cut antiqued lumber or timbers, and trim work.... :)

SmX

12-28-05, 02:22 AM

Hey Guys,

Here is an update on how we Routered the Columns. It was allot of pictures so I just Posted them on our server as a web Page. I should Probably start a Personal Home Theater construction Web Site.

Here is the First Set of Pictures and Descriptions...

SANDMANS COLUMN CONSTRUCTION - Part 2 (http://www.loutrixrecords.com/router-half-rounds-web/index.html)

SVonhof

12-28-05, 02:35 AM

SmX

12-28-05, 03:00 AM

Dude, don't you sleep? 11:22pm my time means 2:22am your time!

Great info on how you routed your columns. I would not have gone that thin on the remaining material though, since I would think it would be too thin, but you obviously felt comfortable doing it. What are you doing to finish the cuts? Inserting some metal or something?

Yep it's almost 3am here.

Believe it or not, that thin groove is absolutely impossible to snap. Me and my friend both tried to break it by playing tug o war with it, it was impossible. Those Grooves will get painted black and possibly wrapped with a metallic insert or whatever looks good in there. It may just look fine painted black. They are only a 1/2" wide by a half inch deep so they Will not be that noticable once stained. We did those grooves just to make the column look a bit more detailed.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

12-28-05, 03:02 AM

Oh Before I go to bed,

Here is another Batch of photo's and descriptions on how we made the Column Boxes.

SANDMANS COLUMN BOX CONSTRUCTION (http://www.loutrixrecords.com/column-box-web/index.html)

Ruben

ScottJ0007

12-28-05, 07:53 AM

ebr

12-28-05, 10:08 AM

I know what you mean, Scott. Makes me not even want to start my own construction thread. I'm not worthy!!

Awesome job, Sandman.

skyman00

12-28-05, 10:33 AM

Ruben-
Very nice! Looking forward to seeing your column speaker cutout solution! -j

SVonhof

12-28-05, 11:25 AM

ebr, your theaters (past, present, future) leave nothing to be ashamed of.

SmX

12-29-05, 02:26 AM

Thanks for all the inspiration guys! I love Sharing this info, just like you guys love sharing it. If it wasn't for all the people here posting construction threads & Tips, who knows if I would even of been motivated to start this project.

You guys are really the ones that made this possible for me, and I thank you deeply. I can only hope my theater turns out half as good as your theaters.

Ruben

SmX

12-29-05, 02:43 AM

Quick Updates before Bedtime.

We completed construction of the columns today. Nothing ever goes easy in my life :) Basically the column box widths were too wide and we had to cut them down 4" from 24" wide to 20" wide. This New width looks much better now IMO. It required us cutting the Veneered boxes in half vertically by removing a 4" verticle strip in the middle and re attaching the 2 halfs together with a vertical support strip glued and nailed to the 2 halves.

After that, I found out the Speaker grill size we were gonna use was too small to address the first reflection issues in our theater. I basically changed the column design right around the time my consultant BPape went on Christmas Vacation. I had resized the Grills to accomodate a look I was going after and was thinking about doing Paradigm Speakers in the theater instead of Martin Logans.

When Bryan got back, he informed me that the Grills were way to high and were not going to address the first reflection points. So after pre-routing our grooves for the Grills, we have to cut them out and router new grooves to accomodate the new Grill Size.

When BPape originally did the Specs for my theater, he was going by the Speakers I was using in the columns which were Martin Logan Scripts. Those Speakers are 44" tall and that is what he used to do the room specs. I didn't realize how important the columns were to address first reflection points.

So any here is what you guys Prefer, some Pictures :)

SANDMAN COLUMN CONSTRUCTION - PART 3 (http://www.loutrixrecords.com/column-grill-web/index.html)

PS. I am going to Start a Blog on the Construction of our Theater to have forever.
TTYL

SmX

12-29-05, 03:13 AM

I've been following your thread for a while and I have to say that you amaze me! Your construction / woodworking talents are incredible. The speed at which you move, your knowledge of how to accomplish projects, the number of tools you have, and then your willingness to document it all for us -- simply amazing.

Then on top of everything else, you design a custom-made curved router base. Wow... you are out of my league by a long shot.

Thanks for your Kind Words Scott. Most of this stuff is pretty simple once you sit down and plan it all out on paper. A big part of the time wasted is thinking and planning ahead. Having the tools and a creative mind helps a bit too ;) But honestly, You can spend under $500 at home depot and buy all the tools you need to build this out. And with a little advanced woodwork reading, you can learn a great amount of techniques to crafting anything.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

12-29-05, 03:20 AM

I know what you mean, Scott. Makes me not even want to start my own construction thread. I'm not worthy!!

Awesome job, Sandman.

ebr, your construction details on your theater have been one of my inspirations to doing this. Your theater is incredible and I actually stole your stage design and modified it for my theater, but don't tell anyone ;)

Ruben

SmX

12-29-05, 03:21 AM

Ruben-
Very nice! Looking forward to seeing your column speaker cutout solution! -j

Skyman, I know you been waiting to see the final steps, so I posted them about 3 posts above this one. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Ruben

SmX

12-29-05, 04:38 AM

Another Update...

Today my AVI and Component Cables arrived from avCables. They really make those cables thick! These will run from my equipment rack to my projector.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/cables.jpg

Man I don't know what to do with all my DVD's. My wife wants me to get them out of our Florida Room and put them somewhere else. I wish I had room to build another room for the DVDs and Equipment, but that is not a reality.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/dvds.jpg

For those who were wondering why I chose Red & Black for our Theater. It's because our kitchen is Red & Black and we wanted to keep the theme the same. Although I must say, if the Color of the staining in the theater comes out the way I want it, I may be doing our kitchen over in Wood doors stained the same (Rosenut/Deep cherry).

Ruben

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/kitchen.jpg

Skippard

12-29-05, 07:37 AM

skyman00

12-29-05, 11:13 AM

Ruben-
Wow! I'm very impressed with your cutout solution for your columns!
I was concerned that you might get/see some concavity in the GOM wrapped section(make sense?).
But it looks awesome! -j

61 flat-top

12-29-05, 11:40 AM

SmX

12-29-05, 06:26 PM

Ruben.......

Have you made your decision on the trim yet? The more I think of an engine turned finish the more I think that would just look kick ass. There is also another process you can do that is called black croming. It is a powder coating process and you start with a polished product........

Not yet, once the Stain goes in there we will try different things out. I know about the powder coating process too. I done that in the past.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

12-29-05, 10:44 PM

Ruben-
Wow! I'm very impressed with your cutout solution for your columns!
I was concerned that you might get/see some concavity in the GOM wrapped section(make sense?).
But it looks awesome! -j

Thanks man, the frame is strong enough on its own. I'm just looking for something to reinforce the fabric on the grills now. Probably a perforated metal or grill.

Ruben

SmX

12-29-05, 10:51 PM

Ruben,

You are a DIY GOD!! I have been following your progress since you began, I also have been making notes and modifying my designs almost every time I catchup on this thread. You are truly an inspiration to everyone who wants to build a HT themselves. In particular, I am most impressed with the starfield ceiling and the columns. I will most likely be starting this spring and there will be a lot of Rubenisms ;) in my HT. Thanks for all your effort in documenting your construction progress and may your thread eventually become a sticky as a model of how to document HT construction.

Okay, it's official, I have joined the cult of Sandman X :D

-Skipp

LOL, Thanks Man, but I'm an amature compared to half these guys here. It's really just all about being creative and planning it out, obviously a few tools help out a bit too :)

Since you joined the SandmanX cult, we have a meeting tonight, and make sure you bring brand new white sneakers :D

ebr

12-29-05, 10:59 PM

lol - 'cause I have now stolen your modified stage design for my new room.

What goes around comes around... :D

darkman2003

12-30-05, 01:39 AM

Just to add my two cents because that all i'm going to have left when my theater is done.lol

I have official joined the cult of Sandman X and Ebr. Two great looking theater.

I have email you many times Eric as you know. As always thanks for the advce. Same for

you,Ruben thanks for the advice on fabricmate made my decision much easier. Keep up the

great work guys.

Darkman

Skippard

12-30-05, 06:08 AM

LOL, Thanks Man, but I'm an amature compared to half these guys here. It's really just all about being creative and planning it out, obviously a few tools help out a bit too :)

Since you joined the SandmanX cult, we have a meeting tonight, and make sure you bring brand new white sneakers :D

OK, I'll be there, but there better be punch! ;)

61 flat-top

12-30-05, 08:05 AM

Thanks man, the frame is strong enough on its own. I'm just looking for something to reinforce the fabric on the grills now. Probably a perforated metal or grill.

Ruben

You could use furring strips or rip some ply wood down..... soak them down and clamp them to your router jig, Give the clamps some twists throughout the day and then you will end up with a piece that is formed to the same shape as your column.
I do have question for you.... I noticed you had mentioned before that you were going to use the underside of your soffits as a bass trap but you had changed your thinking.... could you elaborate on that a little? My apologies if I missed a previous explanation. This thread is starting to get hard to find the information that you had previously read.Thanks Ruben...~!

SmX

12-30-05, 11:30 AM

You could use furring strips or rip some ply wood down..... soak them down and clamp them to your router jig, Give the clamps some twists throughout the day and then you will end up with a piece that is formed to the same shape as your column.
I do have question for you.... I noticed you had mentioned before that you were going to use the underside of your soffits as a bass trap but you had changed your thinking.... could you elaborate on that a little? My apologies if I missed a previous explanation. This thread is starting to get hard to find the information that you had previously read.Thanks Ruben...~!

Thanks for the tip, but I could just cut more ribs off the half round scraps instead of going through all that :) But that is not the case here. I do not want to have any large objects blocking the sound of the speaker under the cloth. So I rather use a perforated metal or screen ike they use on speaker grills.

As Far as Bass absorbtion, the 2 front soffits will be used for that. They will be filled from top to bottom with Cotton.

Ruben

Test_Engineer

12-30-05, 01:08 PM

Ruben,

I posted a couple pages back that I didn't like the red and black theme, BUT now with all the cherry stain and if you go with Black GOM on the walls...that is exactly how I would want my future HT to look. I'd still get different color chairs, but to each his own. To me, there is nothing more rich and elegant looking than black accented by cherry(similar theme in my current house)! Your HT is going to be beautiful when it is done. Kept up the good work and thanks again for sharing EVERYTHING with everyone here.

BIGmouthinDC

12-30-05, 02:49 PM

If you've never seen Sandman you'd wouldn't understand the red and black, white tennis shoes theme.

Here is a picture (I stole) of/from him making modifications to his receiver so it will fit in his rack.

SmX

12-30-05, 04:42 PM

swithey

12-30-05, 05:29 PM

For those who were wondering why I chose Red & Black for our Theater. It's because our kitchen is Red & Black and we wanted to keep the theme the same. Although I must say, if the Color of the staining in the theater comes out the way I want it, I may be doing our kitchen over in Wood doors stained the same (Rosenut/Deep cherry).

Ruben

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/kitchen.jpg
Ruben,

I love those HUGE built-in refrigerators. I wanted to do those in my current home but did not have the space. Cool kitchen!

hvn4179

12-31-05, 11:06 AM

... So I rather use a perforated metal or screen ike they use on speaker grills.
Ruben
I've been looking around for awhile w/o any success on a piece of perforated metal that looks like the metal grill on Martin Logan speaker. If you find the place, please advise. Thx.

BIGmouthinDC

12-31-05, 11:30 AM

gotta be here someplace:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=perforated+metal

Here is an excerpt from the McMaster-Carr web site: http://www.mcmaster.com/

Perforated Metal

About Perforated Metal
Perforated metal is manufactured with hole patterns which are uniform and accurate in size. The surface is smooth and easy to clean. Perforated metal is well suited for architectural work, light construction, sorting, separating, and fabricating custom parts. It's also ideal for machine guards, ventilating grills, and acoustical supports.
These hole size illustrations are actual size and can help you determine the correct opening for your requirements.

.024" Hole Dia. 23% Open, Straight 9255T121

.033" Hole Dia. 20% Open, Staggered 9255T151

.078" Hole Dia. 36% Open, Staggered 9255T521

.1875" Hole Dia. 51% Open, Staggered 9255T781

.250" Hole Dia. 58% Open, Staggered 9255T831

Steel Perforated Sheets
A good economical choice for general purpose applications. This low carbon steel is rigid, yet is easy to form and cut. Sheets are 36" x 40", except where noted.
Center-
Hole to-Center Open
Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each

Straight Hole Pattern
.018" 26 0.024" 0.044" 23% 9255T121 • $65.30

.024" 24 0.033" 0.055" 28% 9255T111 74.83

.024" 24 0.045" 0.066" 37% 9255T191 60.49

Staggered Hole Pattern
.024" 24 0.033" 0.077" 20% 9255T151 65.35

.024" 24 0.045" 0.086" 28% 9255T131 50.74

.030" 22 0.050" 3/32" 26% 9255T231 52.80

.030" 22 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9255T411 37.88

.030" 22 0.079" 7/64" 45% 9255T471 46.54

.030" 22 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9255T611 35.29

.030" 22 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9255T661 33.19

.030" 22 0.156" 3/16" 63% 9255T741 42.23

.036" 20 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9255T381 52.29

.036" 20 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9255T321 52.00

.036" 20 0.0625" 3/32" 41% 9255T251 32.77

.036" 20 0.075" 1/10" 51% 9255T431 50.54

.036" 20 0.079" 7/64" 45% 9255T451 50.54

.036" 20 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9255T581 48.14

.036" 20 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9255T651 45.71

.036" 20 0.141" 3/16" 51% 9255T691 38.08

.036" 20 0.156" 3/16" 63% 9255T731 40.75

.036" 20 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9255T791 38.19

.036" 20 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9255T871 38.48

.036" 20 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9255T841 39.73

.048" 18 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9255T361 57.23

.048" 18 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9255T291 50.88

• 30" x 40" sheet size.
Center-
Hole to-Center Open
Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each

Staggered Hole Pattern (Continued)
.048" 18 0.078" 1/8" 36% 9255T521 $58.26

.048" 18 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9255T561 55.37

.048" 18 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9255T641 46.80

.048" 18 0.141" 3/16" 51% 9255T681 43.81

.048" 18 0.156" 7/32" 46% 9255T761 53.69

.048" 18 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9255T781 41.25

.048" 18 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9255T831 43.49

.060" 16 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9255T341 76.62

.060" 16 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9255T271 74.10

.060" 16 0.078" 1/8" 36% 9255T491 56.11

.060" 16 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9255T541 63.60

.060" 16 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9255T631 61.03

.060" 16 0.141" 3/16" 51% 9255T671 54.15

.060" 16 0.156" 7/32" 46% 9255T751 61.03

.060" 16 0.156" 3/16" 63% 9255T721 61.89

.060" 16 0.1875" 5/16" 33% 9255T811 60.17

.060" 16 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9255T771 49.01

.060" 16 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9255T861 51.86

.060" 16 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9255T821 52.13

.060" 16 0.3125" 7/16" 47% 9255T881 52.40

.060" 16 0.375" 9/16" 40% 9255T911 51.47

.060" 16 0.500" 11/16" 48% 9255T941 50.96

.060" 16 0.750" 1" 51% 9255T971 54.15

.075" 14 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9255T851 61.46

.075" 14 0.375" 9/16" 40% 9255T891 62.59

.075" 14 0.500" 11/16" 48% 9255T931 61.03

.250" —— 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9255T211 190.24

Type 304 Stainless Steel Perforated Sheets
Type 304 stainless steel has good corrosion and abrasion resistance. All sheets have a staggered hole pattern. Sheets are 36" x 40".
Center-
Hole to-Center Open
Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each

.024" 24 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9358T121 $78.80

.030" 22 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9358T131 106.83

.030" 22 0.0625" 3/32" 41% 9358T281 84.60

.030" 22 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9358T241 99.49

.036" 20 0.156" 3/16" 63% 9358T291 92.94

.036" 20 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9358T151 80.92

.036" 20 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T271 105.69

.036" 20 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9358T161 110.74

.048" 18 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9358T311 145.83

.048" 18 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9358T321 113.28

Center-
Hole to-Center Open
Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each

.048" 18 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9358T331 $110.80

.048" 18 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T351 95.38

.048" 18 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9358T341 92.48

.060" 16 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9358T141 127.25

.060" 16 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9358T251 120.68

.060" 16 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T171 153.49

.060" 16 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9358T261 120.16

.075" 14 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9358T461 175.54

.075" 14 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T381 162.29

.120" 11 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T371 201.14

Alloy 3003-H14 Aluminum Perforated Sheets
Material is lightweight, has good corrosion resistance, excellent workability, and can be welded. Sheets have a staggered hole pattern. Sheet size is 36" x 40".
Center-
Hole to-Center Open
Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each

.032" 20 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9232T111 $31.44

.032" 20 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9232T161 32.39

.032" 20 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9232T121 30.75

.032" 20 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9232T131 29.34

.032" 20 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9232T221 29.97

.050" 16 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9232T151 47.78

.050" 16 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9232T141 44.53

Center-
Hole to-Center Open
Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each

.050" 16 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9232T181 $38.73

.050" 16 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9232T211 38.04

.050" 16 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9232T241 41.73

.063" 14 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9232T171 49.66

.063" 14 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9232T191 46.83

.063" 14 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9232T231 48.83

I think you would want to pick one with the highest % open area.

Toon_time

12-31-05, 12:17 PM

I like to read and then read again these forums before jumping in ... but with this awesome thread how can one maintain their composure behind the "curtains" and not jump out and say " awesome dude" ...
I am soaking up everthing in this thread as I am contemplating a Theater myself, got the WAF pre-approval already, just need to get the final plans before her for final signature ....

Great job man and keep it up ..

SmX

12-31-05, 12:45 PM

Happy New Year Everyone.

Well yesterday we experimented around with some staining and finishing to figure out the color we want to achieve on the columns and light trays.

For some reason, all the pictures I took yesterday of the stained samples with my camera came out Fire Engine Red/Orange. So Today I was able to set the camera and lighting differently to get a more accurate Color match on the computer.

What we did was use a scrap half round that was veneered and Masked it off in a few sections to test coats and heaviness of spray to get the best color. The clear coat is a Satin Finish and needs to be Steel wooled and waxed.

This is pretty much the color I liked best on the bottom (below the groove)

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/finishing/finish-1.jpg

Here is a Close up shot of the grain. We may use a grain filler to fill up the grains and make it all smooth like a piece of glass. Some People told me not to and some people thought I should. What do you guys think?

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/finishing/finish-2.jpg

Here is a wider shot of the Sample. For those who have good monitors will see the color Difference the Bottom is all the same color and the top is to different colors from left to right

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/finishing/finish-3.jpg

I documented the whole Staining process as well.

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

12-31-05, 01:39 PM

I've been looking around for awhile w/o any success on a piece of perforated metal that looks like the metal grill on Martin Logan speaker. If you find the place, please advise. Thx.

There are literally Thousands of places online that carry perforated metals, metal mesh Screens, etc. Do a google search for perforated metals.

Here is one for example http://www.perf-plus.com/

Ruben

SmX

12-31-05, 02:50 PM

Here is a Few shots with the GoM next to the Stained Column.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/finishing/finish-6.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/finishing/finish-4.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/finishing/finish-5.jpg

Ruben

SVonhof

12-31-05, 04:07 PM

SmX

12-31-05, 05:41 PM

BTW, you guys, perforated metal could be used, but so could expanded metal. Either will work, expanded metal can be found more easilly and should be at Home Depot and Lowes.

If you don't know what I am talking about, it also comes in sheets and has a diamond pattern. This is an example of expanded and flattened metal:
http://www.mcnichols.com/products/expanded/images/flattened/pics/big_flattened.jpg
http://www.mcnichols.com/products/expanded/flattened/

That would probably be good, but the large open pattern of it will probably show through the GoM. I used that stuff before and its really not that smooth like a circle perf metal.

But its Def worth a try, I will See if HD hads some.

SVonhof

12-31-05, 06:42 PM

Ruben, this is the flat stuff, the standard expanded metal which will be more readilly available will not give a smooth look like this stuff would. Good luck in finding it.

If you can't find any of it, the easiest thing to do would be wait until Monday or Tuesday and call either a metal supply house near you or a sheet-metal shop near you. Either of them would probably have something that would work. I would say that the pattern that gives the most percentage of open area will be best. since it would have less area to block/reflect the sound.

ebr

01-01-06, 11:22 AM

larryep

01-01-06, 11:24 AM

[QUOTE]Man I don't know what to do with all my DVD's. My wife wants me to get them out of our Florida Room and put them somewhere else. I wish I had room to build another room for the DVDs and Equipment, but that is not a reality.

run your theater with a HTPC
put all of them on hardrives, you should only need about 20 terabytes :eek:

have all the dvd's in boxes in storage.

the kitchen is nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SmX

01-01-06, 02:59 PM

Sandman - my opinion - leave the grain. Grain is one of the things that gives wood its character. If you fill and smooth it, I'm afraid two things could happen:

1) It could end up looking "fake" like its not real wood and you went to so much trouble to create that beautiful woodwoork.

2) It could end up very reflective and be distracting.

Just my .02

Thanks ebr,

When they make high end speaker cabinets like paradigms and B&Ws they Use a Pore filler On the deep pores so the final finish is smooth as glass whether it be satin or gloss finish. The pore fillers also highlight the Grain of the wood when using a tinted pore filler.

For some reason, when I see deep grooves in finished wood, it reminds me of Olden Style or the Tables at Outback Steakhouse. When the Finish Is smooth, it looks more modern to me. I am trying to achive a more modern look here. I think I like the color I got, now it's just about getting the right finish. So tomorrow I will Do some experimentations with Pore Fillers and see what the outcome is.

I will keep you updated.

Ruben

SmX

01-01-06, 03:03 PM

[QUOTE]run your theater with a HTPC
put all of them on hardrives, you should only need about 20 terabytes :eek:

have all the dvd's in boxes in storage.

the kitchen is nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

20 terrabytes? Tha's All? :D

I am going to use a Mac Mini for a HTPC for the meantime to play music and Organize my DVD Collection with DVD Pedia.

Ruben

jpa3d

01-01-06, 03:18 PM

Ruben, Why not contact one of the speaker companys like Atlantic Technology or Cambridge Soundworks, who use metal perforated grills and see if they can help with obtaining grills for use in your HT. Who knows when they see your theater build they might give you a complete 7.1 system for advertising rights!

Jim

SmX

01-01-06, 04:07 PM

SmX

01-01-06, 04:31 PM

Well Last Night I got Some Time to try out the Perforated Screen Samples I got from Da-Lite. They Came right after the Screen I ordered came in, Figures.

One was the High Contrast Cinema Perf with a 1.1 Gain
One was a Audio Vision with a 1.0 Gain
The Other was a High Contrast Audio Vision with a 0.8 Gain.

Basically, I set up the Optoma H-79 and shot it on my Bone white Painted Textured Wall. I taped all 3 samples to the Wall. The Samples are like 6" x 6"

First thing I can Tell you, I did not like the perforations. They were real noticable to me at 8 feet from the wall on all the Samples.

The Audio Vision with a 1.0 Gain is a white screen and looked no Different than the bone white wall I was shooting on. The Sample Completely dissapeared (besides the perfs) with the painted wall when I watched a movie this proved to me I could just shoot on a Wall to get the Same results as the Screen.

The High Contrast Cinema Perf with a 1.1 Gain was a Light Grey Screen and looked no Different than the wall either, except for it having better contrast and deeper blacks. But Besides the Blacks getting Blacker everything else got darker too. So I have no idea what the point is of that.

The High Contrast Audio Vision with a 0.8 Gain, I have No Clue who would use this, It is Real Dark Grey and everything looks Black with it.

Aren't Screens suppose to work better than a regular painted wall?

I'm going to try some more samples from Stewart, Screen Research & Dazian before I open this Box up with the Da-Lite Screen. I know folks, I rushed ahead of myself and got the screen before I got the Samples and now I'm wondering. But if another Screen Fabric proves to be better than my wall and the price is resonable, I will return the Da-Lite and get the better choice.

Ruben

ebr

01-01-06, 05:06 PM

SmX

01-01-06, 06:01 PM

Sandman - if you're going for the more modern look (which I understand, given the picture of your kitchen) then you probably will like the pores filled.

On the screen - I paid $1200+ for a Stewart screen in my first room. I built my own out of Parkland wall material for the second one (for $35) and I thought the second screen was at least as good as the first. Now - I never saw them side by side so I may have fooled myself, but I'm not sure I'm a believer in spending lots of money on a screen...

[bracing for the onslaught of screen proponents]

I Hope the Stewarts look better than the Wall for all the money they Get. I seen Prices of $6k and better for a 135" Stewart.

Is This like the $4k speaker wires sounding the same as Radio Shack Zip Cord Debate? Cause I remember they did a Huge A & B Blind Test with speaker cables and the biggest critics and it was a 50/50 call in the end.

Maybe this was done With screens too? Someone please help me justify this.

Ruben

Gerry S

01-01-06, 06:52 PM

A user took some measurements with different acoustically transparent screens. Look here:
screen thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=455723&page=1&pp=30&highlight=dazian)

ebr

01-01-06, 07:52 PM

SmX

01-01-06, 09:49 PM

I'm sure I wouldn't compare different screens to things such as "Monster" wire. Especially, when you get into specialized applications (like acoustical transparency, high gain, high contrast, etc.)

I'm just saying that, for me, I can't imagine that I'll ever spend a lot of money on a screen since I am happy with the image that can be produced on cheaper materials. This time around I am going to try and go acoustically transparent as well and I plan to try to use the Dazian CCC cloth (based largely on the thread referenced above). The way I see it, if it doesn't work well enough, I don't have much invested in it and can go another way.

Also, Maybe back in the Days, when projectors were not as Bright and didn't have such high Contrast Ratio's, these Screens were a necessity to HT. All I can ppersonally Say is the Screen Samples I got from Da-Lite are no better than my Painted Wall IMO.

I wonder what the Da-Lite Material Costs without the frame? Any ideas?

Ruben

68sting

01-01-06, 10:34 PM

I can give you a little info on screens. I recently went to a demo held by Integrity Home Theater on screens. They had some full size screens along with 2'x3' samples.

The higher gain screens (white)would hot spot. When you walked from side to side the center was much brighter than the sides. I liked the Silver Star the best (4.0 gain). It was "plasma like" bright but obviously hot spotted the worst. General rule was if you had a narrow seating arangement and could control lighting you would be fine.

The grey screens didn't hot spot near as much and did a lot better with light. As they slowly raised the lights, the the Firehawk(grey) looked great, but the Studio Tek(1.0 gain white-this is the screen the studios use) washed out quickly. So if you have ambient light problems or like to have some lights on when the guys come over for football, the Firehawk screen excelled. Also with lights down the Firehawk looked very close to the Studiotek. So, the Firehawk was the best all around screen.

They also had one of the new black screens (really dark grey). That was very cool. With the lights all the way up it looked fantastic. There very expensive at this time but you could see all the possiblities these screens will allow. Instead of having to buy a very expensive and not so reliable 60" plasma for your living room, you could have the reliability and cost of a FP in full light situations.

Another interesting thing to think about: They would hold a white screen sample in front of the grey screen and it would light up the wall beside the screen. That made the contrast appear less. General rule again was if you have a dedicated room and could paint the walls black, you would be fine. Most people can't do dedicated rooms and the wife won't let them paint the walls black. So another vote for the grey screens.

They also recently toured the Stewart Factory. I think Stewart is the only manufacturer that has a machine that sprays the screen on the ceiling so overspray and larger particles don't fall on the screen. Also, they have the same people making all the screens so they don't know if they're making it for you or for the Emmys.

They're dealers for most brands. I believe they sell more Dalites than anything due to price. After doing back to backs with Dalite and Stewart, they believe that the Stewart is the superior screen, but it costs about 30% more.

It was cool to see how different the screens accually were. I haven't decide which way to go yet. I'm shooting on my painted wall and it looks great for now but I will eventually get a screen. I really like the Vutec Silver Star's brightness.

If any one is interesed, they also did a projector shoot out with these projectors. If you are curious what I thought, just send me a PM.

Panasonic AE900
Sanyo Z4
Optima H-79
Infocus I think 7205
Incocus 777
Sim ? 3 chip DLP
JVC I forget the number but it was there new 1080p unit.

SmX

01-01-06, 11:39 PM

I know this may not do much for you guys, but here is a picture of the 3 samples on my wall.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-samples-wall.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-samples.jpg

The one on the left is the High Contrast Cinema Perf.
The one in the middle is the Audio Vision
The one on the right is the High Contrast Audio Vision

ebr

01-02-06, 10:12 AM

The fact that the samples are not stretched tightly is hurting them a bit (making shadows in the folds) but boy, you can really see those perf's huh?

Send away for a sample of the Dazian CCC. I'd love to see how much worse/better/the same it is

mike mcdaniel

01-02-06, 04:31 PM

SmX

01-02-06, 05:09 PM

Here ya go.... This is one place.... I will post another place when i go to work tomorrow and find out the name of the company. They are located here in Georgia but do not have a website..... Hope this helps !!!! :D Mike

Speaker grill material (http://www.gratingpacific.com/round_hole_pattern_illustrations.htm)

Thanks for that link Mike. There is a Steel factory by me that manufactures and sells these by the 4 x 8 Sheet. IIRC they are about $300 a Sheet. They will cut to size as well.

Ruben

larryep

01-02-06, 05:29 PM

ruben

here is link for an alternative for screens. not sure on this yet. sounds like a versin of blackout cloth, but wide rolls for larger screens.
http://b-adeals.com/ProductScreenWhiteFire.htm

SVonhof

01-02-06, 05:35 PM

Ruben, the post by 68sting is the one that tells the most about the reasons for the different screen materials. I have the Stewart Grayhawk (was the first high contrast screen material from any manufacturers) and it was developed for the LCD projectors since they don't have a way to completely turn off the light on pixels. Using an LCD projector with a gray screen helps the blacks. With all the new DLP projectors especially with the darkchip technology and such, the high-contrast screens are not needed as much unless you can't control the light in your room. Since you have a dedicated room with total light control, I would probably go with something that is not a negative gain.

SmX

01-02-06, 05:39 PM

ruben

here is link for an alternative for screens. not sure on this yet. sounds like a versin of blackout cloth, but wide rolls for larger screens.
http://b-adeals.com/ProductScreenWhiteFire.htm

Thanks for that link Larry, but it doesn't mention if the screen is accoustically transparent or what. I need a Screen I can Set up my 2 Mains and center behind.

I ordered a Sample of Dazian CCC since allot of people are liking it. Gonna See what that brings to the plate.

Ruben

larryep

01-02-06, 05:46 PM

sorry, i recalled your post about sample screen material. they don't send large enough samples. after that post i went TO the dyi screen forum . I am also on hunt for RAW screen material.
2 ft. x 6 ft would be nice samples.

SmX

01-02-06, 09:45 PM

Well I found out the Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Perf Material is $10 a Square foot
and The Stewart Micro Perf Material is $65.00 a Square Foot if I want to make my own frame..

Now I paid around $1,500.00 for My 135" Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Perf Cinema Contour Fixed Frame with Pro Trim.

So Da-Lite Gets like $900.00 for a Frame? Is the frame that good?

Ruben

bpape

01-03-06, 07:51 AM

Well, I'd bet you that if you put the Micro-Perf up there that the perfs wouldn't be nearly as noticable.

As for the frame cost, I can't say. I guess it's what the market will bear. I'd guess that you'd not find a lot of difference in the manufacturers from this standpoint. I know the my Stewart is very nicely built, very sturdy, easy to assemble and hang, etc.

SVonhof

01-03-06, 12:21 PM

The frame was the main reason I bought the Stewart screen. I liked the shape of the frame as well as the snap attachments to the frame and the velux treatment of the frame (to make sure the image has sharp edges and allows you to set the projector to bleed over onto the frame).

Dude, you should have taken a few days out of your schedule and gone to Vegas this week for CES!

SmX

01-03-06, 01:19 PM

Dude, you should have taken a few days out of your schedule and gone to Vegas this week for CES!

Shoulda, Coulda, woulda. :D

HTScotty

01-03-06, 01:44 PM

Hey Sandman, did ya get my pm?

SmX

01-04-06, 12:00 AM

Hey Sandman, did ya get my pm?

Yep, PMed you back.

SmX

01-04-06, 12:26 AM

Hey Folks,

Just an Update. Been Spending a couple Days trying to get the Color right for the Wood. I finally got the Combo to Use for the Stain and Filler. It's a pretty big process to get the look I want. There is like 13 Steps to complete the Finish I want but it will look incredible when finished.

To Explain the Process, it takes mixing 2 colors of Stains together to get the Color I like, then cut it 50/50% with a thinner.

1) First you have to prep the Veneer with 2 Sandings, a 120 Grit then a 220 Grit.
2) Then you Dust It off.
3) Then Spray the Stain on & Let it dry for like 30 minutes.
4) Then mix a grain Filler.
5) Wipe on the Grain Filler with a Burlap cloth to fill up the grains and accent them so the grains look darker and pop out. Let It Dry for 4 Hours - 6 hours after that.
6) Wipe grain Filler off.
7) Sand with a 320 grit.
8) Dust Off.
9) Shoot 1st Coat of Clear & Let Dry.
10) Sand with a 320 Grit.
11) Shoot 2nd Coat of Clear & Let Dry.
12) Steel Wool Rub
13) Wax

So the good News Is, I can now begin to move forward with the Staining and finishing process.

Fun, Fun, Fun :D

Rob_McArthur

01-04-06, 02:24 AM

SmX

01-04-06, 08:37 PM

Today my Stewart Perf Screen Samples came in. They Sent me like 8 different perforated Samples. Stewarts Micro Perf has the Smallest Holes. Stewarts Cinema Perf has Larger holes than the Da-Lite.

Here are some 100% Size Samples of the Stewart and Da-Lite Perfs

Da-Lite Audio Vision
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Screen-Samples/da-lite-av.jpg

Stewarts 200 Cinema
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Screen-Samples/stewart-cinema-200.jpg

Stewarts 130 Micro Perf
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Screen-Samples/stewart-micro-130.jpg

Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Screen-Samples/da-lite-hc.jpg

Stewarts Firehawk Cinema
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Screen-Samples/stewart-cinema-grey.jpg

Stewarts Firehawk Micro Perf
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Screen-Samples/stewart-micro-gray.jpg

ebr

01-04-06, 08:42 PM

SmX

01-04-06, 08:50 PM

Let me be the first to say " Oh my goodness!".

Your attention to detail is amazing! If I took the time to put that kind of detail into my HT Room my 2 year project would turn into 6 years. I can't wait to see the finished room. Makes me ashamed to be thinking of putting up my own construction thread.

Keep up the great work it gives us "wannabees" something to strive for.

Rob :)

Awwwe Shuckss :o Thanks

There is no need to be ashamed of starting your own construction thread. We all have tips and techniques to teach each other. I have learned so much info and stole so many ideas from the guys here at AVS, its crazy. Your now all welcomed to Steal any ideas you like from me :)

We all should just be thankful we have the extra money to blow on these luxuries regardless of how it gets done :)

Ruben

SmX

01-04-06, 08:52 PM

Wow - I know it looks worse than it is cuz we're getting such a close up shot of it but I have to think any digital (fixed pixel) display is going to have a problem with any one of those.

I have a sample of the Dazian CCC. It doesn't have any "holes". It is a weaved fabric and looks much more like something I can live with for an AT screen.

Yep, and those are all from my Scanner at 100% Size. So the hole size and pattern from sample to sample is actual size on your monitor.

Sit 10 feet Back from your Monitor and thats how it will look on your wall.

The Stewart Micro Perf is the Best Bet out these samples.

Ruben

SVonhof

01-04-06, 11:00 PM

The Stewart Micro Perf is the Best Bet out these samples.
Ruben

That's why it costs so much! All those little holes, somebody has to put them in! Think of the poor soul who is over in the corner, trying to put in all those holes, one at a time with a little bitty hole-punch. His eyesight has been degrading for years, but he keeps on going like the Energizer bunny.... :D

SmX

01-04-06, 11:26 PM

That's why it costs so much! All those little holes, somebody has to put them in! Think of the poor soul who is over in the corner, trying to put in all those holes, one at a time with a little bitty hole-punch. His eyesight has been degrading for years, but he keeps on going like the Energizer bunny.... :D

You would think they would be able to afford a laser hole puncher by now. I saw the tool they use to make those holes in this online video introduction, its a mini paper hole punch and they have 3 guys in the Factory punching those holes 1 by 1. I guess they use the Rolls Royce Way "Made By Hand" :D

Frank D

01-05-06, 01:14 AM

SmX

01-05-06, 02:30 AM

Update:

Well Today was a Semi Productive Day. We Got all the Prep Sanding Done of all the Veneer Columns, Light trays and Rack Trim.

We spot cleaned out the whole Theater to make sure Dust isn't flying around and we Shot our Stain on the Columns, Rack Trim and Light trays.

So tomorrow we will begin the grain filling and start getting these treatments up on the Walls.

I started a Personal Blog with all the Updates with Pictures.

New Update Tomorrow.

SmX

01-05-06, 02:35 AM

SandmanX,

What about a Clearpix screen. CAP2 is the preferred material, I belive. There is supposed to be no visual holes ie. no moire. No EQ is required either.

Here is the thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=585552

Yeah, I looked into Screen Research ClearPix 2.
I requested Screen Samples from them twice and never got anything. They are pretty pricey screens as well, almost up there with Stewarts. I'm Also still waiting on my Dazian CCC Sample to come in.

I'm gonna throw all the Stewart and Da-Lite Samples on the Wall tonight and see what the Difference is. I will update you guys Tomorrow.

johnson_sb

01-05-06, 04:08 PM

Ruben,
Good luck getting Dazian samples through their website. I think I've tried ordering samples 2 or 3 times and got nothing. Luckily, I don't really need them yet, but I plan to call next time.

ebr

01-05-06, 04:22 PM

My Dazian sample arrived in about 5 days. I guess its hit or miss cuz I've heard of others having problems too.

I guess maybe the ClearPix stuff is really good (it costs a fortune) but I have a hard time believing its that much better than this Dazian stuff. For $80 I'm gonna find out I guess. Now that I think about it, I probably better order my Dazian fabric before they wake up and realize they can start charging $2,000 for it...

P.S. Here's a link to some measurements a guy took for some different acoustically transparent screen materials - including the Dazian. Doesn't address picture quality, but they are interesting. http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?p=183815#183815&sid=c9a52d0aba84bdf92c048f6b4ab99836

SmX

01-05-06, 07:22 PM

So Last Night I Set up all my Screen Samples on the Wall Side By Side. Myself and a few friends Sat down to try to determine the Better Looking Sample. After sitting there for an hour, the conclusion was...

The Picture Quality was the Same on all of them.
Besides The Screen Samples with the High Gains were really Bright and Glowing Looking (Hot Spot).
The Grey Screens had the Darker Colors / High Contrast.

The Stewarts and Dalite White Matte Screens Completely Dissapeared on the Painted Textured wall. I was really Shocked to see that the Very Expensive Stewarts white Matte performed the Same as the Da-lite and the Same as the Painted Wall.

So it made me feel a hell of allot better I didn't Drop $6k on a Stewart.

The Only nicer thing about the Stewart over the Da-Lite was the Micro Perfs. I liked the Micr0-Perf much nicer. But at 10 Feet Away from the Screen, the Da-Lite Perfs were really unnoticable.

I don't Know If I was wrong expecting the Colors to be Better with a Better Screen or the picture to be clearer than just shooting on a regular textured painted wall.
I Feel that an Audio Transparent Cloth like a Dazian CCC will probably be the Best Bet as far as picture wise and Audio transparency IMO due to not having Perfs in the material.

Here Some Pictures...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shot-samples/DSC06901.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shot-samples/DSC06935.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shot-samples/DSC06910.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shot-samples/DSC06911.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shot-samples/DSC06913.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shot-samples/DSC06922.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shot-samples/DSC06929.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/screen-shot-samples/DSC06932.jpg

GPowers

01-05-06, 11:11 PM

Out of the nine samples i like number 8 and 9. counting top to bottom, left to right.

From the distant you shot the photos some of the micro-perf screens look out of focus and the gray samples look too dark. Just MHO.

MaximAvs

01-06-06, 09:56 AM

I agree with GPowers! The picture is not deformed at all in 8 and 9!!

Sean

jikkjack

01-06-06, 10:30 AM

I wish the screen manufacturers had to explain why the image quality is equal or worse (not better) than the image quality on the wall.:eek: Then defend the prices they charge for screens. LOL.

Maybe your projector is too sexy for your screen? ;)

SmX

01-06-06, 11:12 AM

I agree with GPowers! The picture is not deformed at all in 8 and 9!!

Sean

The Best part of it all is, The Picture is really Not Deformed on the Wall either.
Even better, The Wall doesn't cost $6k.

platdaddy

01-06-06, 12:41 PM

Good Luck!

s-one

01-06-06, 12:46 PM

Yea man.. 9 looks good.

MaximAvs

01-06-06, 02:13 PM

The Best part of it all is, The Picture is really Not Deformed on the Wall either.
Even better, The Wall doesn't cost $6k.

Is a perforated screen a neccessity for you?!

Cause you could get a $14 piece of Do-Able (49"x96") at HD for a nice screen! And put the other $5986 towards a nice set of theater seating!

Sean

TLJester

01-06-06, 02:19 PM

The Best part of it all is, The Picture is really Not Deformed on the Wall either.
Even better, The Wall doesn't cost $6k.
Sounds like (as long as you can do it) the wall is the winner !

I do LOVE that the wall is just SOOO good over the very expensive screens ;)

SmX

01-06-06, 02:52 PM

Is a perforated screen a neccessity for you?!

Cause you could get a $14 piece of Do-Able (49"x96") at HD for a nice screen!

Sean

Yeah, I need to put the Speakers behind the Screen.

I have a question for you guys. I have a 135" Diagonal Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Contour Perforated Screen Sitting on my Floor un-opened. After seeing all the Different screen Samples, I feel anything will prove just as well. I paid $1,600.00 for the 135" Screen and I'm thinking of returning it. Prob is they want to charge me a 15% restocking fee on an unopened box which is like $255.00 Plus $100.00 Shipping. Should I return the Screen and take the Small Loss of $350.00 or keep it and take the Loss of $1,600.00 and Have something to show for the loss?

I'm the kind of person that doesn't mind paying to have top Notch stuff. But if the Product doesn't show an improvement or even a slight improvement for the money, I back off. Nevermind show no improvement for a Large chunk of Money. The only thing that probably performs better (I don't really know) is the Frame that the Screen Material Attaches to. I hope the frame is what these people are charging all this Money for, cause I cant Justify spending $6k on Stewart Screen Material.

Ruben