Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins! [Text View] - Page 4

SmX

01-23-06, 06:28 PM

Your HTPC is truly amazing, I wonder if there would be much difference now with the dual core intel macs.

Couple of questions, the SATA array which you mentioned would be outside of the room is that connected to an APC power and does it have its own fuse box or running on the same panel as the rest of the equipment? And does your HTPC accept the fiber straight from the SATA array?

Thanks,

Mehran

The Storage would go in an outside closet due to the loudness of it. I'm actually considering building a quiet case for the storage and just transfer the 16 Drives to the new case. The reason that case is so loud is because its made to accept allot of heavy duty transferring for video Rendering, plus it has the swappable drives. I do have an APC and the closet it would of gone in would on had a dedicated line. The Storcase is Fibre to SATA using an ATTO celerity PCI-x Dual fibre Channel Card.

Ruben

SmX

01-23-06, 06:32 PM

Hi Ruben,

Glad i asked the question :) That's some PC you've built there! Amazing you can run 3 HD streams and still rip a DVD on the background.

Thanks very much for taking the time to try it and take the screenshots.

Thanks Den. I can actually run 4 1080 HD Streams I found out today. So yes the System is working rather well :) The DVD ripping doesn't use much CPU on this system (I think like 5% at most).

Ruben

SmX

01-23-06, 06:36 PM

Ruben, one great feature of the 777 is that, using the disc direct command, you can skip all the previews and go right tom the movie as well. On 99% of all DVDs the feature is title #1. The big violator of this rule is Dreamworks, who always put "forced previews" as title #1 and usually hide the feature as the #15 or something.

To overcome this, I use one of DVDLobby's custom fields to specify "prefered title" so that, as long as I know the feature's title, will always start the DVD on the feature (requires some extra MLServer Commands, though). It works very well.

However, I cannot agree with you more about the value of being able to remove extras sometimes. Yesterday I was trying to play a Baby Einstein DVD for my son in the car, and it took a good 3 minutes to get through the menues and get the mvoies going on my cheapo portable player. I've already ripped all of these DVDs to my HTPC once already (I usually rip things less than 1 hour long to HTPC and things over 1 hour long I put in the 777 - did a cost per gigabyte analysis, based on what paid for the 777 and what I paid for my HDDs and determined that 60 minutes was the "breaking point" where - say - 2.5GB of HDD space for 1 hour of DVD quality video costs less than one "slot" in my changer - which is worth up to 9.4 GBs for a DL DVD.) Anyway, I decided yesterday that I was going to rip all of my Boy's Baby Einstein DVDs to DVD-Rs and put them in a portbale carrier in the car so we'll have menu-free instant acess to these while we're on the road. Probably a good idea to do for some other DVDs as well that we may want to view on the road - so we won't have to remove them from the changer when we travel.

When the Sony JukeBoxes arrive here, Me and you are going to become very good friends :)

Ruben

SmX

01-23-06, 06:40 PM

Ruben,

Question is, how does your quad G5 with 10gb of ram play the HD trailers/previews? What kind of performance can you get out of that? :)

Jrfuda: Baby Einstein DVD's are great, but I agree all the menus are a pain. How did you shrink the big 8.5Gb dvd master to fit onto the 4.5 dvd-r?

Good Question, I have to go down to the Studio to test that one. I'm going down there later on and I will Post the results.

Ruben

SmX

01-23-06, 06:45 PM

Ruben,
Thanks! I had discovered AnyDVD which someone mentioned earlier and I can copy most DVD's to HDD.. there are some it won't do and of course, I get all the extras.. I'll try CloneDVD from the same company!

I was pleasantly surprised to see how many players support the _TS format.. MCE does and even freebie Media Player Classic.. so does Sage TV..

I don't have anywhere near the storage you have, however. So, I will begin to experiment with some compression (I'll probably start with Divx and maybe DVDShrink as jrfuda recommends above.), but I'm sure that will limit the players/UI I'll be able to use.

My aim is to have a wife-acceptable UI for music/movies/stored video.. i'm going to leave live video from my Moto cable STB for now as the quality is untouchable..

Thanks again!

Jerry

Sounds good. I'm really new at this whole DVD ripping on the PC too. I find that CloneDvd is working great and I don't have to enter new settings with every DVD I Load up to rip. I only had problems with one DVD so far (I forgot Which one) but I know it was a newer Sony release. The Sony DVDs that don't rip on the PC, I can Rip on the Mac with MacTheRipper since it does Arrcos encoded DVDs.

Ruben

SmX

01-23-06, 06:51 PM

Could you explain a little more detailed your statement :

"However TT also has a switch and the default is only to use the video PP if the file types are .ifo or .vob. File types must match the selected file types in the Files dialog to be eligible for ffdshow processing."

Maybe I have something setup right by accident, I remember awhile back playing around with the ATI drivers and setting them to play video at 800 x 600 or something like that but keep the PC at forced 720P

That Statement above was from Vern. What he is Saying is that TheaterTek will Only use Post Processing (ie ffdshow, dscaler) by default when using .ifo and .vob files not HD Files. Also he is saying the correct file types in ffdshow must be enabled for postprocessing.

I see someone else gave you the link to Verns Settings.

Ruben

SmX

01-23-06, 06:53 PM

alot of the power is in the vid card you have a 500 dollar card there. i my self witnt with dual msi 7800gt the olny thing i notice is i did install xp pro and not xp pro 64 and i do have some problems with some of my drivers.

that is a sweet setup and i love the case.

well off to watch lord of war

Thanks. I try my best :)

Ruben

NYNole

01-23-06, 06:55 PM

Sounds good. I'm really new at this whole DVD ripping on the PC too. I find that CloneDvd is working great and I don't have to enter new settings with every DVD I Load up to rip. I only had problems with one DVD so far (I forgot Which one) but I know it was a newer Sony release. The Sony DVDs that don't rip on the PC, I can Rip on the Mac with MacTheRipper since it does Arrcos encoded DVDs.

Ruben

Great thread ... fun to watch and very informative ... check it every day ...

the newest version of clone should take care of the "sony issue" I had the smae problem so I went to the website and noticed on Dec 23 they added:CloneDVD 3.9 released. Newly added new Sony ARccOS decryption, copy ARccOS protected DVDs smoothly, so far remove all protections (CSS, RC, RCE, UOPs and Sony ARccOS) while copying.

SmX

01-23-06, 07:10 PM

Ruben,

I may have missed it but have you decided on the sound card and HDTuner for your HTPC yet? If so, could you please share that with us :)

Still Looking, If any of You guys here have recommendations, Let me know. I'm going Digital out for the audio and doing the processing in my Hardware Processor. So I think the optical out on the Motherboard may be fine from what I been reading in the High End Forums. But I am currently considering the EMU 1820M (http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=9871) for the sound card.

As far as HD cards, thats a whole new batch of research I need to do. I still don't know what I'm suppose to do with the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500MCE I got. All I do know is Im running out of Slots here. I have one PCI-X and one PCI slot left here.

Let me Know ...
Ruben

miltimj

01-23-06, 11:22 PM

If you're not going to game on the HTPC, then the digital out on your motherboard should be just fine.

theirishgonzo

01-24-06, 01:04 AM

i have 1 queston about the 777 sony it has r g b but no dvi or hmdi will this matterin quality? i would like a jupebox dvd player but would i get better quality with a dvd with dvi or hmdi?

SmX

01-24-06, 01:45 AM

If you're not going to game on the HTPC, then the digital out on your motherboard should be just fine.

Thanks miltimj. I heard This from many other people here as well.
To me, It just Seems so funny to run my whole System off a little built in optical out, but it looks like it will be fine. I did hook up the optical out to my system already and it sounded fine, but I couldn't judge it too well.

Ruben

SmX

01-24-06, 02:17 AM

Well Folks,

It's that time of the year *Changes by David Bowie playing in the backround* "Ch, Ch, Ch, Changes"

Well first off, let me say this. I was going to keep the perforated Da-Lite Screen. But tonight, after watching some brighter Movies with the Awesome "Vern Dias" Settings in ffdshow, I saw a Severe case of Moire on all the light scenes. After speaking to BPape about this, I tried Moving the Screen over to shoot on the wall to see if the Moire still esisted and it was gone.

The combination of the Digital Projector and the Perforated holes caused Moire effect on the Screen. For those that don't know what Moire is, here is the Definition out of the Dictionary "denoting or showing a pattern of irregular wavy lines like that of such silk, produced by the superposition at a slight angle of two sets of closely spaced lines." Other words, the picture had waves in it due Due to the perforated screen and digital projector not seeing eye to eye.

So Now what? I tried the Dazian CCC material and I didn't like it, I tried the Screen Research Clearpix2 and I liked it a little bit but the picture loses Detail with it.
I also tried the Stewart Micro Perf, I like it but its too expensive and the Da-Lite perforated has issues with Moire with my PJ.

After Speaking to BPape, we decided to change the speaker placement and go with a Non Perforated Screen. I have plenty of space on the Sides to do speakers on the ends but the original plan called for all front speakers to be behind the Screen. So I gave this new info to BPape and he put in all the calculations for placement and reflection points. Now I just need to make some small changes to the Front Side treatments to address the reflection points.

Ruben

drzoomn

01-24-06, 03:07 AM

So Now what? I tried the Dazian CCC material and I didn't like it, I tried the Screen Research Clearpix2 and I liked it a little bit but the picture loses Detail with it.
I also tried the Stewart Micro Perf, I like it but its too expensive and the Da-Lite perforated has issues with Moire with my PJ.

Ruben

hey ruben,

what PJ are you using? i wonder if projecting a different size image could solve the problem (although probably not a fix if you're set on a size, etc). or maybe rotating the screen fabric? i have no experience with video moires, so i could be talking out my my arse, but i know moires from printing, and i'd try that stuff if it was happening to me.

i'm totally set on perf screen for my project, so i'm interested in what your situation is.

btw, the theater looks great so far!

exipnos

01-24-06, 03:32 AM

Still Looking, If any of You guys here have recommendations, Let me know. I'm going Digital out for the audio and doing the processing in my Hardware Processor. So I think the optical out on the Motherboard may be fine from what I been reading in the High End Forums. But I am currently considering the EMU 1820M (http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=9871) for the sound card.

Let me Know ...
Ruben

The optical out is fine if you have a good receiver, but its key that your motherboard puts out a bitperfect audio signal. Check if thats the case.

How high end do you like to go, and whats your budget for the soundcard? ?

The fact that you will be using a HTPC, you know that it can offer video quality superior to many very expensive scalers. The same could be true on the audio side. The DACs in a high end soundcard such as the EMU1820M, RME or Lynx are usually better quality then many receivers. You could then run analogue out from the PC into your power amplifier. But I'm sure you knew this already.

With such a powerful HTPC you should look into using some of that power for audio processing. I'm specifically thinking of DRC software. Take a look at http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Main_Page. Some of these setups can compete or surpass high end TACT systems. Take a look at the success stories page.

There is a guy (ShinOBIWAN) over at diyaudio that have experimented with high end soundcards such as the RME HDSP9632 and the Lynx TWO B soundcard with Apogee DAC. Apparently he's now got the RME Fireface 800 which he considers equal or even supperior to the lynx/apogee setup. If thats to steep then I'm sure the EMU1820 would offer you a very good setup with DRC.

take a look at this thread for more info about PC DRC setup.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63078

R-U-Q-R-U

01-24-06, 07:15 AM

....

Well first off, let me say this. I was going to keep the perforated Da-Lite Screen. But tonight, after watching some brighter Movies with the Awesome "Vern Dias" Settings in ffdshow, I saw a Severe case of Moire on all the light scenes. After speaking to BPape about this, I tried Moving the Screen over to shoot on the wall to see if the Moire still esisted and it was gone...

Ruben

Ruben,

Do you know if this is a problem with all micro-perf screens or just the combination of your projector and screen? Has anyone else seen this problem?

----------
Howard

bpape

01-24-06, 07:58 AM

At this point, the DaLite is the only one he's been happy with in terms of detail - outside the Stewart. The Stewart is going to be out of budget by a long shot for a perf screen in the size he's doing.

We had discussed this early on in the design phase. Sometimes digital PJs and perf screens just don't mate well. In this case, he works with video for a living and is very sensitive to video related issues. While having the center behind the screen as well as the mains is desirable, in this case, for his preference, it's just not going to be acceptable to him.

There will be some other changes to the plan to accomodate this mod but for the most part, they're relatively minor due to where the project stands. The front wall (false) will need to be modified to accomodate the new speakers positions. The reflection points change (though this is not as big a deal with the ML speakers as their dispersion is more limited than most dynamic speakers, etc.

Potentially, the screen could move back further but probably not. On the bright side, now that the mains are not behind the screen, that leaves us LOTS of room for those 2 Danleys to move around and find just the right spot without being restricted to what the mains leave you.

Gotta find that silver lining! ;)

Bryan

SVonhof

01-24-06, 09:13 AM

Howard, moire has been around for a long time and happens occationally as bpape says when you combine a fixed pixel projector (CRT's don't have this problem, since they don't have pixels) and a perforated screen. I used to visit a forum for my projector (www.thebigpicturedvd.com forum) when I first got it.

Anyway, Don Stewart was a regular on the forum since people were experiencing moire with the Sony 10HT projector and his screens. He worked with people and was able to find screens that fit the needs of people, even shipping them replacement screen materials at no cost to aleviate the problem. So, while Stewart may be more expensive, if somebody is stuck with putting the speakers behind the screen, I beleive that the Stewart screens is a great way to go. If you have issues, call Stewart and see how much they will work with you on the issue to resolve it.
Also, for those going with a perforated screen, one of the advantages of the micro-perf screens from Stewart is they have fewer issues with moire because the holes are so much smaller.

jmorris644

01-24-06, 10:27 AM

Well Folks,

we decided to change the speaker placement and go with a Non Perforated Screen.

Ruben

So where are you going to place the center channel speaker? Under? Over?

Mark P

01-24-06, 11:12 AM

You could do a constant height setup which would get you a little more room for your speaker. In a room like that I dont think I would go any other way, most of the good stuff is in 2.35:1 anyway and you gain more resolution when watching that aspect ratio and loose none with 1.78:1. Youre doing HTPC with Theatertek, no need for a scaler

We did the same thing , decided against any type of perf or clearpix. It just wasnt worth the loss of picture. We moved our speaker down below because we had no choice and found it still sounds the same as it did in the middle and we were concerned because the screen is so large.

In all our testing the only difference between high and low was the back rows, high is preferrable but in our case , not happening.

Good luck!

Did you fire up the PJ and screen in the actual theater room? I am still kind of waiting for your output of reflectiveness of your beautiful woodwork.

miltimj

01-24-06, 12:36 PM

Man, that is definitely too bad. I've been setting my mind on a perf/mesh screen, but I'm definitely second guessing now, as I've heard the SR Clearpix2 is one of the best out there, and if doesn't work very well with the digital projector, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be happy with it. I'll still get some samples when the time comes, though.

You bring up a good point, Mark.. Actually, I was kind of assuming Ruben was going to go 2.35:1. That's definitely a requirement in my future project. If I end up going with a non-perforated, then I'll be saving quite a bit of money and will likely try two centers, one above and one below. Larry Chanin has done this with great results. (The theory purists will say that it can cause a comb filtering effect, but Larry hasn't experienced that, and the theorists that I read didn't have much practical experience in the area).

Good luck with whatever you decide.. Your decisions haven't failed you thus far! (It certainly doesn't hurt to have someone like Bryan giving advice, either!)

jmorris644

01-24-06, 06:51 PM

chiabob

01-24-06, 08:28 PM

I'd take a hit on the quality to save me the time and $$$$ of ripping 1000 DVDs to hard drives. Let's see, my computer takes about 15-20 min per DVD to rip. Times that by 1000 and I just spent half my life sitting in front of the HTPC, not to mention the $4000 I would have to spend on hard drives for a setup that could handle that much information

Mark P

01-25-06, 12:39 AM

david_pflanzer

01-25-06, 09:11 AM

Great thread! I have a similar attention to detail as you have... but it has its downside... it takes me forever to finish something. You seem to be moving at a quick pace. My theater is still in the planning stages but I have grabbed a lot of ideas from your well documented process. Thanks much!

I'd take a hit on the quality to save me the time and $$$$ of ripping 1000 DVDs to hard drives. Let's see, my computer takes about 15-20 min per DVD to rip. Times that by 1000 and I just spent half my life sitting in front of the HTPC, not to mention the $4000 I would have to spend on hard drives for a setup that could handle that much information

You really hit the nail on the head! I've been archiving HDTV Movies off HBO and Showtime for the last five years. When I actually count up the time and money I have spent it just doesn't seem to add up. I probably spend 10 times more doing this than I do watching movies. There is certainly something to be said about the KISS approach.

David.

jrfuda

01-25-06, 10:08 AM

Can you guys maybe clarify a question for me? It is in regards to the 777s. If running the video through TheaterTek gives you 1080p and all of the advantages of losing the pre-movie stuff, why would you install 777s?

I believe that I must missing something here. WOuldn't the quality of playback through the 777s be far inferior to the htPC playback?

Thanks

Joe

There are several reasons why it's nice to have both a 777 and HDD-based movie collection.

1. Cost per movie - uncompressed - is cheaper in a 777. Even ay 5GB per movie (which will require some compression on most movies) You'd need 2TB of space in order to equal the storage capacity of the 777, and if you figure you're using a RAID5 volume (which is the most common RAID type for media servers, and probably the one that makes the most sense) you need 2TBs + 1 HDD (so, 8+1 (9) 250GB drives, 7+1 (8) 300GB drives, or 4+1 (5) 500GB drives. Given the price of the RAID5 hardware, plus drives and PC - the cost gets very high per movie. However, if your ultimate goal is to be able to watch something different on ever TV in the house, then the extra cost is worth it.

2. As others have said, it's a lot easier to stick a disc in a changer slot than to copy it to HDD, and there are some movie that just can't be copied, even if you re-author it, use a DVD Decrypter & DVDShrink Combo, etc. I have some movies that play fine in my DVD players, but give me CRC errors when I try to back them up with either program.

Yes, the playback may be somewhat inferior to HTPC playback, but you have to remember that the source material is always 480i - no matter what! So any improvements you get with scaling - whether using FFDShow, DScaler, or an external hardware scaler is still manipulating a 480i picture.

I've seen some side-by-side shots in various threads on various forums 'round the net and the quality increase you get from scaling is subjective. I think some really hardcore videophiles may actually prefer an unscaled picture - though I don't know, and I can't tell on my meger 720p 50" set. This morning I finished hooking up a modulator to my DVDChanger and watched about five minutes of a movie in a remote room - Now, the TV was only a 32" SD model, but the picture looked awesome to me - and this was a "TV" channel for goodness sakes! I'm sure if I viewed the modulated content on my 50" or something bigger I would have noticed quality issues, though (I think there may have been a wee bit of a herringbone pattern in the pic - but you had to really look for it).

One day, when I can copy an uncompressed movie onto HDD for about $1.25 per movie - including the cost of building the PC storing the movie and all HDDs & RAID cards, I'll switch to a purely HDD-based system. If I win the lottery or my investments really take off, then I may raise the cost per movie threshold, however :)

For someone who has more money budgeted for this kind of thing, hoever, I'd say an HTPC-based system is a great way to go.

What I think Ruben should do, is get his 777, slowly copy all his movies to HDD, removing them from the 777 as he does, and when the 777's empty, he should sell it to me for a song! :)

Ktulu_1

01-25-06, 11:34 AM

...and there are some movie that just can't be copied...

Never have I seen such a beast. If you're having problems with ARccOS protection, there are ways around that. :) DVD Decrypter hasn't been updated in a while and needs help.

mig1868

01-25-06, 11:53 AM

What a great thread. I have been following it for a while now. I am just getting started with my HT and have made several changes to it from all the different things I have seen on here. One change was the columns. I liked the round ones you are doing much better then square. The question I have for you is how exactly are you attaching the column box to the wall? Then how are you attaching the column to the box? If you have already posted this I must have missed it.
I cant wait to see it all finished.

SmX

01-26-06, 02:32 AM

Updates.

My internet has been down for the last 2 days. I finally got back online. Were getting Close! Here some pictures of the accomplishments so far.

Now the Big Question is.. To Sconce or Not to Sconce? What do you guys think?
There is plenty of light in the room with the Downlights in there alone. Do You thik sconces on the Walls will detail it better or too much?

These following 4 pictures are with the work lights on...

This is off the front stage..

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/update-1-26/DSC07864.jpg

Side Wall..

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/update-1-26/DSC07837.jpg

Right Rear quarter of room...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/update-1-26/DSC07836.jpg

Left Rear Quarter Room, Notice Equipment Rack on left.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/update-1-26/DSC07854.jpg

Front stage Lighting...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/update-1-26/DSC07873.jpg

This Picture, Work Lights off, back of theater...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/update-1-26/DSC07819.jpg

The is where the projector and Hush Box is going...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/update-1-26/DSC07849.jpg

Notice holes for sucking out the hot air of the projector...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/update-1-26/DSC07794.jpg

Psychoholic

01-26-06, 02:50 AM

Man that is simply incredible. I have had to completely change my plans for my theater since I've been following yours! My wife and I love it!

Chris

SmX

01-26-06, 03:14 AM

hey ruben,

what PJ are you using? i wonder if projecting a different size image could solve the problem (although probably not a fix if you're set on a size, etc). or maybe rotating the screen fabric? i have no experience with video moires, so i could be talking out my my arse, but i know moires from printing, and i'd try that stuff if it was happening to me.

i'm totally set on perf screen for my project, so i'm interested in what your situation is.

btw, the theater looks great so far!

I'm using the Optoma H-79. I tried rotating and changing the angel of the screen with no improvement. However, if you shake the screen side to side fast enough it eliminates the Moire. Maybe I can build a big vibrator for the Screen? :D The Projector is incredibly clear though.

Here is a Picture of the Moire...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/update-1-26/moire.jpg

SmX

01-26-06, 03:18 AM

The optical out is fine if you have a good receiver, but its key that your motherboard puts out a bitperfect audio signal. Check if thats the case.

How high end do you like to go, and whats your budget for the soundcard? ?

The fact that you will be using a HTPC, you know that it can offer video quality superior to many very expensive scalers. The same could be true on the audio side. The DACs in a high end soundcard such as the EMU1820M, RME or Lynx are usually better quality then many receivers. You could then run analogue out from the PC into your power amplifier. But I'm sure you knew this already.

With such a powerful HTPC you should look into using some of that power for audio processing. I'm specifically thinking of DRC software. Take a look at http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Main_Page. Some of these setups can compete or surpass high end TACT systems. Take a look at the success stories page.

There is a guy (ShinOBIWAN) over at diyaudio that have experimented with high end soundcards such as the RME HDSP9632 and the Lynx TWO B soundcard with Apogee DAC. Apparently he's now got the RME Fireface 800 which he considers equal or even supperior to the lynx/apogee setup. If thats to steep then I'm sure the EMU1820 would offer you a very good setup with DRC.

take a look at this thread for more info about PC DRC setup.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63078

Thanks for all the info exipnos

The EMU 1820 should do the job for me, I am still reading up on the info you gave me as well. I have an all Marting Logan set up for Speakers.

Ruben

SmX

01-26-06, 03:22 AM

Ruben,

Do you know if this is a problem with all micro-perf screens or just the combination of your projector and screen? Has anyone else seen this problem?

----------
Howard

The Stewart Micro Perf material seems to be Fine. I only have an 8.5" x 11" sample and can't really tell at this point. This moire effect doesn't happen with CRT projectors from what I'm told. It does happen with some digital projectors, what are digital projectors don't have this problem? You got me.

Ruben

SmX

01-26-06, 03:25 AM

So where are you going to place the center channel speaker? Under? Over?

If anything, Definatley Over the screen.

Ruben

SmX

01-26-06, 03:29 AM

SmX

01-26-06, 03:32 AM

SmX

01-26-06, 03:34 AM

SmX

01-26-06, 03:40 AM

SmX

01-26-06, 03:45 AM

Man that is simply incredible. I have had to completely change my plans for my theater since I've been following yours! My wife and I love it!

Chris

Thanks! Glad you Like it. The good thing about the red panels is that the color can be changed if I get sick of it in the future. The Panels are velro to the walls and can be easily removed and easily refabric. Also the color of the Wood will match up to allot of neutral colors as well.

I set it up that way just in case when I get a little older, I may like Brown or something :D

Ruben

HeyNow^

01-26-06, 07:52 AM

That ceiling really adds depth. Looks like a summer night sky. Simply awesome.

KWhite

01-26-06, 09:08 AM

Looking great. I wouldn't do any more lighting, looks perfect as is. Slightly defocusing the projector will aleviate some of the morie pattern as will a depixelator.

ebr

01-26-06, 09:12 AM

Sandman, you're killing me...

Your room looks sooo good but it doesn't fit the style of my house so I can't just copy it :). Keep up the awesome work.

spamboy

01-26-06, 09:12 AM

Just to chip in on the PC thing (great room btw). I've had both an RME and the emu 1212m (2 channel version of the 1820m) in my HC and found the RME has a superior sound (aeb8-O and DIGI 9636 - now in my stereo system). I've just bought an HDSP 9632 for the HC.

Personally I'd definitely look at the RME cards, especially if you plan to listen to music in the room.

SVonhof

01-26-06, 09:15 AM

I don't know about the others, but I like the light patterns you can get from sconces. As for light, that isn't what you would put them in for, since they really are not going to put out all that much light. Most sconces are made so that they use reflected light off the walls and ceiling to help light the room and in your case (is it is with many home theaters) the area around the sconces really don't reflect light well, which of course is good for HT, but not good for lighting. Do what you think will look best and go from there.

FusionRx

01-26-06, 09:20 AM

For a decent and not so expensive sound card you could always look at the Bluegears X-mystique (and the X-raider(out March), and the X-plosion (out Jan) also from Bluegears). zipzoomfly sells them. I beleive the link is www.bluegears.com

MaximAvs

01-26-06, 09:29 AM

Ruben...

I'm sort of waffling on sconses for your space! I think that sconces might add another layer of lighting, but then again I think the space could be used for movie posters or the like.

If you have another space in mind for posters, then I say go ahead with some sconces.

To be honest, the on;y time you'll want that much light on in the room, is when you're showing it off to friends, otherwise the down lighting you have is plenty to find your seat and start up the flick.

Sean

Mark P

01-26-06, 09:43 AM

It looks pretty darn good the way it is, sconces will clutter it up in that size room unless they are very, very cool. They will take away from the columns unless you were making sconces to match the columns I say bleh

BIGmouthinDC

01-26-06, 09:53 AM

On the sconces. Right now the Blue tape actually adds a little interest to the design because of the contrast with the dark red tones in the room. Once you remove the tape and put the black on the bottom of the walls and the speaker covers the overall look may be a little "flat". not in a negative way but just a description of a large area of dark tones.

Therefore the right sconce would be like adding a visual jewel. It might make all the difference. But it will take just the right sconce. I'd also like to see those ferrari chairs in there so that we really get the overall effect. I'd say make sure the wiring is in place, finish the room, bring in the chairs then stand back and try it with and without a sconce.

Z06Racer

01-26-06, 11:16 AM

My vote is for no sconces. I really like the clean lines of the room. You have heard it a million times but, I really appreciate the time you take to document the progress of your room. It has helped me out a lot. Thanks

SmX

01-26-06, 01:31 PM

Thanks for all the feedback guys. The opposite wall in the pictures has 2 doors (equipment opening and entrance) so sconces may not work too well on that wall.
I will, however, run the needed wiring for future sconces.

RUben

jrfuda

01-26-06, 02:04 PM

That's beautiful - I agree that your starfield makes it look like you have your roof opened to a clear night sky - at least from that angle.

SmX

01-26-06, 06:04 PM

david_pflanzer

01-26-06, 06:30 PM

Do you know of any good online sconce places?
I would like to look at something more contemporary.

Ruben

I was in Atlanta awhile back and checked out the new Ikea in midtown. They had a good selection of modern lighting including some sconces. The prices are unbeatable. I'm in Tampa and it takes me about 6.5hrs... so it would surely be a day trip for you in Boca. Please note that not all the items in the store are represented in their online store -- you really have to shop there.

But you are a creative guy. Why not build them? You could use some frosted glass framed in a geometric wood structure (that would tie in your colums). I can see it.

David.

ntjbjhq

01-26-06, 06:35 PM

I was in Atlanta awhile back and checked out the new Ikea in midtown. They had a good selection of modern lighting including some sconces. The prices are unbeatable. I'm in Tampa and it takes me about 6.5hrs... so it would surely be a day trip for you in Boca. Please note that not all the items in the store are represented in their online store -- you really have to shop there.

But you are a creative guy. Why not build them? You could use some frosted glass framed in a geometric wood structure (that would tie in your colums). I can see it.

David.

Agree about Ikea, I was in there today as a matter of fact, looking at the lighting as well. They are definately modern! I wonder if they allow photo's in their stores, most places are not very keen on that, and my only camera is a bit large (canon 1ds). Maybe some other locals have a small point and shoot they could sneak a few shots of the available lighting? Anyone up for some recon work?

Robert

Mark P

01-26-06, 07:12 PM

This one would look sweet! http://www.bigbangelectronics.com/product.asp?dept_id=5&pf_id=BASSnebraska_sconce

Seriously though I saw a website that was mainly theater seating and they had the best looking sconces around. Im trying to find it but they had some Comedy/Tradgedy masks that looked very cool ( they were actually real masks that made a great looking glow out of the top , bottom, eyes, and mouth) and they werent cheap or hokie looking. They also had alot of neat all Glass ones with about every color imaginable.

ntjbjhq

01-26-06, 07:42 PM

Good selection here: http://www.htmarket.com/homtheatligw.html

Mark P

01-26-06, 07:46 PM

This place has hundreds http://www.zaneen.com/

R-U-Q-R-U

01-26-06, 08:17 PM

Ruben,

Your theater is looking great. I hope one day to emulate your efforts.

Regards,

Howard

SVonhof

01-26-06, 08:20 PM

http://www.lampsusa.com

from this:
http://www.lampsusa.com/productimages/westinghouse/6415600.jpg

to this:
http://www.lampsusa.com/productimages/Triarch/104018.jpg

to this:
http://www.lampsusa.com/productimages/Quoizel_3/226055.jpg

and more

704set

01-26-06, 09:01 PM

Here's a couple of places I used for my HT

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/products/default.aspx?clearFilter=yes&TID=92
http://www.homeportfolio.com/catalog/Listing.jhtml?superCatId=14&catId=454#12755
http://www.maximlighting.com/home.html
http://www.minka.com/
http://www.feiss.com/

And I ended up going with 6 of these
http://www.homeclick.com/showpage.asp?itemid=167613

Skip

jmorris644

01-26-06, 09:21 PM

Yeah it Sucks. I do allot of Video work, restoration, color correction, etc. and Picture quality is a must for me. The Clearpix2 just aint cutting it with this Optoma H-79. Maybe CP2 works better with a CRT and LCD PJs, who knows?

Ruben

I had the opportunity to see a clearpix2 screen (8 foot wide) with a Ruby (un-calibrated) projector. From what I could observe, anywhere within 4 feet of the screen you could see the pattern of the fabric. From 15 feet, where we were sitting it looked wonderful to me. Even at a 60 degree angle to the screen the picture looked fantastic. I tried really hard, because I knew the fabric pattern was there, but I was unable to discern any pattern at the 15 froot range. I don't know the differences between the Optima H-79 and the Ruby and if that would make a difference or not. Plus, because of Ruben's profession, I am sure that his eye is far more critical than mine. Personally, I was amazed by the depth of the picture. They were displaying I,Robots with no sound. (They had not hooked up the sound system yet.)

Joe

jmorris644

01-26-06, 09:26 PM

There are several reasons why it's nice to have both a 777 and HDD-based movie collection.

1. Cost per movie - uncompressed - is cheaper in a 777. Even ay 5GB per movie (which will require some compression on most movies) You'd need 2TB of space in order to equal the storage capacity of the 777, and if you figure you're using a RAID5 volume (which is the most common RAID type for media servers, and probably the one that makes the most sense) you need 2TBs + 1 HDD (so, 8+1 (9) 250GB drives, 7+1 (8) 300GB drives, or 4+1 (5) 500GB drives. Given the price of the RAID5 hardware, plus drives and PC - the cost gets very high per movie. However, if your ultimate goal is to be able to watch something different on ever TV in the house, then the extra cost is worth it.

2. As others have said, it's a lot easier to stick a disc in a changer slot than to copy it to HDD, and there are some movie that just can't be copied, even if you re-author it, use a DVD Decrypter & DVDShrink Combo, etc. I have some movies that play fine in my DVD players, but give me CRC errors when I try to back them up with either program.

Yes, the playback may be somewhat inferior to HTPC playback, but you have to remember that the source material is always 480i - no matter what! So any improvements you get with scaling - whether using FFDShow, DScaler, or an external hardware scaler is still manipulating a 480i picture.

I've seen some side-by-side shots in various threads on various forums 'round the net and the quality increase you get from scaling is subjective. I think some really hardcore videophiles may actually prefer an unscaled picture - though I don't know, and I can't tell on my meger 720p 50" set. This morning I finished hooking up a modulator to my DVDChanger and watched about five minutes of a movie in a remote room - Now, the TV was only a 32" SD model, but the picture looked awesome to me - and this was a "TV" channel for goodness sakes! I'm sure if I viewed the modulated content on my 50" or something bigger I would have noticed quality issues, though (I think there may have been a wee bit of a herringbone pattern in the pic - but you had to really look for it).

One day, when I can copy an uncompressed movie onto HDD for about $1.25 per movie - including the cost of building the PC storing the movie and all HDDs & RAID cards, I'll switch to a purely HDD-based system. If I win the lottery or my investments really take off, then I may raise the cost per movie threshold, however :)

For someone who has more money budgeted for this kind of thing, hoever, I'd say an HTPC-based system is a great way to go.

What I think Ruben should do, is get his 777, slowly copy all his movies to HDD, removing them from the 777 as he does, and when the 777's empty, he should sell it to me for a song! :)

Thanks John, Lots of good information here. Does the Sony have a digital out? Could it be hooked up to the htPC in such a way to use the Sony for it's near-online access but run the content through the htPC and be able to use the scalar capabilities on the pc?

Joe

david_pflanzer

01-26-06, 09:28 PM

I still vote for a custom build sconce. If you like modern art like I do, let your inspirations be your guide.

Whaddya think?

Free museum edition pocket protectors to those who can guess this apparatus :>

http://www.kalbc.com/untitled-3.jpg

David.

bpape

01-26-06, 11:50 PM

Personally, I'm not convinced you need the sconces. If you're looking for something just as a piece of jewelry so to speak, something modern but relatively small would be my suggestion.

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/wall-sconces/view.aspx?family=150488
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/wall-sconces/view.aspx?family=8859
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/products/view.aspx?family=130868
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/wall-sconces/view.aspx?family=149471 (garcia glass)
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/wall-sconces/view.aspx?family=154257

SmX

01-27-06, 11:35 AM

Awesome Sconces Guys!!! Thanks for all the Links.

Ruben

johnathan

01-27-06, 01:10 PM

Ruben
With your ability I would build somthing to compliment the beautiful work you have done so far ! You seem to be a master of wood and that is where I would start ! Johnathan

jrfuda

01-27-06, 01:29 PM

Thanks John, Lots of good information here. Does the Sony have a digital out? Could it be hooked up to the htPC in such a way to use the Sony for it's near-online access but run the content through the htPC and be able to use the scalar capabilities on the pc?

Joe
No, it can only be controlled via a PC. Sony has a new MCE PC that has a built-in 200 disc changer, though, but I don't know if the video goes directly out of the changer or is processed through the PC. It's very expensive too.

ChiTown_Jerry

01-27-06, 04:23 PM

Rahl

01-27-06, 04:38 PM

My 2 cents... (for what it's worth..)

I don't think you need sconces.. they way you are lighting those columns makes them glow.. showing off that great wood grain.. almost virtual sconces, if you will.. I think it would detract from the columns if you put sconces in there..

Jerry

My exact thoughts.

You have an awesome theater with great lines. Throw some sconces in there, and it will throw everything off. Just my opinion though.

Keep up the great work! I love every bit of it.

jrfuda

01-27-06, 04:54 PM

I agree - no sconces...

although, I bet you could easily build some that look like these: http://www.htmarket.com/accentsconce.html with your skills that would fit-in nicely with your design.

radm1f

01-27-06, 04:54 PM

Just amazing!!

I would vote for no sconces, for more lighting I would opt for hidden row of lights behind the wooden trim that reflects light on the side panels with dimmers. This way if the lights are off no one can see the fixtures or bulbs themselves, and when you need to vacuum or change things you can brighten the room to your liking.

Your transparency, balance and depth of knowledge in all aspects of this project is greatly admired and appreciated.

Mehran

ScottJ0007

01-27-06, 07:48 PM

Milt99

01-27-06, 07:58 PM

No sconces.

SmX

01-27-06, 08:09 PM

I'll throw in my vote for no sconces. Your theater has such great lines and visual interest, I think the sconces would distract, rather that add to the appearance. If you really think you may want the sconces, I would just make sure you are wired for them but then wait until the theater is finished to make your final decision.

I see all your panels are up. They look great. Do you have any details on how you built and installed them? I looked back through the tread but didn't find any detail.

I'm a bit reluctant to make this next comment because I think all of your work is truly awesome; however, every time I look at your star ceiling, the stars appear just a bit too uniform. It almost looks unnatural. Can the star brightness be changed after the fact to be more varied in intensity or is it fixed in stone at this point? Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?

Thanks Scott,

The Stars twinkle and the pattern of the Stars are a mimick of the Alpha Centauri Solar System. This was the only pattern I could find that I could blow up big enough to mimick for the whole ceiling.

Each panel contains a different group of stars to make this up (12 Panels in total with 600 Stars). Also, what you dont see in the pictures besides the Shimmering of stars, is the various brighter & dimmer stars or the shooting stars.

Believe me, the last thing I would want would be a repeating pattern of stars.

Ruben

ebr

01-27-06, 08:25 PM

Thanks Scott,

The Stars twinkle and the pattern of the Stars are a mimick of the Alpha Centauri Solar System. This was the only pattern I could find that I could blow up big enough to mimick for the whole ceiling.

Each panel contains a different group of stars to make this up (12 Panels in total with 600 Stars). Also, what you dont see in the pictures besides the Shimmering of stars, is the various brighter & dimmer stars or the shooting stars.

Believe me, the last thing I would want would be a repeating pattern of stars.

Ruben

C'mon, Scott... After reading this thread, did you really think that Sandman would have done anything less than attend to every single detail on this? I mean, what he's probably not telling us is that he has actually matched the individual colors of each "star" to match the actual make up of gasses known to be contained within each one. :D

SmX

01-27-06, 08:36 PM

ScottJ0007

01-27-06, 09:04 PM

C'mon, Scott... After reading this thread, did you really think that Sandman would have done anything less than attend to every single detail on this? I mean, what he's probably not telling us is that he has actually matched the individual colors of each "star" to match the actual make up of gasses known to be contained within each one. :DOf course I knew Sandman would attend to every detail. He also probably hasn't told us that his other hobby is astronomy and that he HT ceiling can do double duty as a planetarium and he can replicate any Solar System known to man :D. But I still had to ask the question because of the way the pictures appeared. When I was showing off his theater to my wife she commented on it too. She also wants a star ceiling in our theater now! :D

SmX

01-27-06, 09:51 PM

Updates:

Well today we got the rest Of the Panels framed Out, got the Door installed, and managed to fabric one of the lower panels. Heres some Pictures...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/walls/DSC07909.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/walls/DSC07911.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/walls/DSC07928.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/walls/DSC07943.jpg

These are the Bottom Frames without the Fabric in place until tomorrow...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/walls/DSC07913.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/walls/DSC07939.jpg

Big Worms

01-27-06, 10:16 PM

Just simply amazing Ruben! I know you here it alot but it is true!

Question, how did you do this panel?
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/walls/DSC07911.jpg

SmX

01-27-06, 10:20 PM

Someone above asked how we made our panels. Well here you go...

First we Cut and routered all our wood. We used particle board to make them. The method we used to made these panels will prove to last for a very long time without sagging or bowing. They are quite easy and fast to make once all your wood is cut and routered..

Layout and glue your back. We use ProBond Glue its the worlds strongest Wood glue.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels/DSC07886.jpg

put your sides on Glued and Nailed..

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels/DSC07890.jpg

Then its ready for Fabric...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels/DSC07879.jpg

Here it is without fabric in the wall...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels/DSC07876.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels/DSC07882.jpg

SmX

01-27-06, 10:25 PM

Just simply amazing Ruben! I know you here it alot but it is true!

Question, how did you do this panel?

Thanks!

That is 3 panels made into one big panel before it goes up. Here is a back shot...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels/DSC07899.jpg

KWhite

01-27-06, 10:29 PM

Damn. Nice work.

Hey, is this some sort of DIY scam. Do you have like 10 people working on this with you? That is a lot of routering and nailing for one guy to do. ;)

Ted White

01-27-06, 10:37 PM

LOL!!!! Do it yourself scam! That's great!

ebr

01-27-06, 10:40 PM

Do I remember correctly that those panels are held in with velcro? Are the wood trim pieces velcro'd too, or did you nail those?

KWhite

01-27-06, 11:00 PM

You know, now that I think about it, even these pictures are too good. Looks professional to me. Some sort of covert Home Depot scam to get us all to work on our own HTs.

We are on to your devious little plan now!

SmX

01-28-06, 12:10 AM

Of course I knew Sandman would attend to every detail. He also probably hasn't told us that his other hobby is astronomy and that he HT ceiling can do double duty as a planetarium and he can replicate any Solar System known to man :D. But I still had to ask the question because of the way the pictures appeared. When I was showing off his theater to my wife she commented on it too. She also wants a star ceiling in our theater now! :D

How the hell do you guys find Out all my secrets?
The internet gives away too much info. ;)

SmX

01-28-06, 02:01 AM

Damn. Nice work.

Hey, is this some sort of DIY scam. Do you have like 10 people working on this with you? That is a lot of routering and nailing for one guy to do. ;)

Thanks. LOL

1 half day of work with 1 man. Once your all set up you just let them rip.

Ruben

SmX

01-28-06, 02:03 AM

LOL!!!! Do it yourself scam! That's great!

Ted! Where have ya Been???

SmX

01-28-06, 02:06 AM

Do I remember correctly that those panels are held in with velcro? Are the wood trim pieces velcro'd too, or did you nail those? Yes they are held in place via industrail strength velcro, weatherstripping and a Tight fit. The Weather Stripping is on the back just to avoid any possible rattling, it may of been a bit overkill but better safe than sorry. The Wood strips are Glued and nailed to the drywall.

Ruben

Milt99

01-28-06, 03:40 AM

Sandman,
Where's your source for industrial strength velcro?
I could use some in my project.
Thanks.

BTW, there is no such thing as overkill on a project such as your's.

2.35:1

01-28-06, 04:33 AM

How does 1 attach a picture?

SmX

01-28-06, 10:08 AM

Sandman,
Where's your source for industrial strength velcro?
I could use some in my project.
Thanks.

BTW, there is no such thing as overkill on a project such as your's.

You can find it at Home Depot in the Hardware Department or the Isle they sell Screws and nails. Loews has it too.

Ruben

SmX

01-28-06, 10:09 AM

How does 1 attach a picture?

I think you need a certain amount of Posts to attach a picture or post a link. It may be in the rules.

Ruben

SVonhof

01-28-06, 02:10 PM

SmX

01-28-06, 03:36 PM

Ruben, what is it that you are putting behind the fabric? I know you are not leaving the back area behind the fabric empty....

I think you already said it, but in your panel pics, you don't mention or show it.

Oh, Oh. Was I suppose to put something back there? :confused:

Just Kidding. :D

There are different variations of 2" Cotton & 2" 703 in different locations. You will See it prehung on the wall in some of the previous pictures I Posted. Some are paper faced and some are not.

Ruben

bmackrell

01-28-06, 08:22 PM

Sandman,

what's your source for the 2" thick cotton?

billmac

2.35:1

01-28-06, 09:15 PM

Why are you using different variations of 2" Cotton & 2" 703 in different locations?
In fact what is 2" 703?

SmX

01-28-06, 11:44 PM

Sandman,

what's your source for the 2" thick cotton?

billmac

I searched High and low for the best prices and the Best Place to get it for the lowest Price is from...
http://sensiblesoundsolutions.com/index.php?cPath=22&osCsid=ccbee61cff1051fe3ec6567c18f1bd8b
That is where I got it from.

SmX

01-29-06, 12:05 AM

Why are you using different variations of 2" Cotton & 2" 703 in different locations?
In fact what is 2" 703?

After talking with my Accoustical Sound Consultant guy (BPape), this is what he recommended.

Ruben

SmX

01-29-06, 12:39 AM

Updates:

Today was a half day of work. We got the Bottom panels and treatments finished and installed.

Here's a few pictures...

We threw some fabric on a grill to get an idea. The grill is about to fall off in the pictures below...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels-2/DSC07946.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels-2/DSC07976.jpg

Here is the equipment rack area.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels-2/DSC07977.jpg

2.35:1

01-29-06, 12:46 AM

Looking good you should build home theaters fo a living!

GPowers

01-29-06, 12:57 AM

Up late working again i see (it is well after midnight on the east cost).

Looks better all the time. When doese all the blue tape come off?

SmX

01-29-06, 01:09 AM

Up late working again i see (it is well after midnight on the east cost).

Looks better all the time. When doese all the blue tape come off?

Yep, well it's only 1am here now. Just finished adding my 1,000 DVDs to dvd profiler so I can import them into Dvd Lobby. So I am real happy I got that out of the way.

The Blue tape is part of the columns, well it now seems like it anyway. Hopefully it comes off Soon. We are just waiting on a finer spray gun to arrive to finish those lines.

I also need to get my ass in gear and order those perforated column grills.
I really been sleeping on that.

Ruben

SmX

01-29-06, 01:12 AM

Looking good you should build home theaters fo a living!

Thanks and No Thanks :D

Ruben

Rob_McArthur

01-29-06, 01:31 AM

SmX

01-29-06, 01:40 AM

Hi Ruben,

Looking great and you move so fast on this it is amazing. I really love the color scheme it looks fantastic. I can't remember what you decided to do in the channel on the columns I think you were taking about metal or something, could you elaborate on this please?

The speed you work at it seems you're in two places at once. Getting your HTPC stuff done while building the HT.

When you are done this project things are gonna get a little slow here on the forum.

Keep up the great work it's very inspirational

Rob

Thanks Rob,

I am very pleased with everything so far except for the hush box. We did it in a finished veneer like the columns and its a bit too boxy and the finish is overkill IMO. I think I'm just gonna Black GoM over it so it gets lost in the room. Its gonna be like those real nice wood floors buried under the Carpets and wood in a old house :rolleyes:

Ruben

Psychoholic

01-29-06, 04:07 AM

What were the overall internal dimensions of your garage when you started? (the width is cut off in the initial sketch).

Thanks!

ebr

01-29-06, 08:25 AM

Hey Sandman - I don't remember this being covered anywhere but are the heights of the side wall panels something like this (from top to bottom):

1'
6'
2.5'

?

jmorris644

01-29-06, 09:51 AM

Yep, well it's only 1am here now. Just finished adding my 1,000 DVDs ...

Ruben

So what are you gonna do with all of your spare time AFTER you are done? :D :D

SmX

01-29-06, 11:28 AM

What were the overall internal dimensions of your garage when you started? (the width is cut off in the initial sketch).

Thanks!

It Started out 19' 10" x 21' 8" with 9' 1.5" Ceiling

Ruben

SmX

01-29-06, 11:57 AM

Hey Sandman - I don't remember this being covered anywhere but are the heights of the side wall panels something like this (from top to bottom):

1'
6'
2.5'

?

It's 95" from the Floor to the under Soffit. Another thing you Don't see in my Pictures is the Top Black Panel is Recessed 1" and the Base Board is recessed 1.5" from the 2.25" Panels.

Black Top panel 8.25"
Wood Trim 3.25"
Red Panels 50.25"
Wood Trim 3.25"
Black Panel 10"
Black Panel 5"
Black Panel 10"
Base Board 5"

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Wall-Dimensions.jpg

SmX

01-29-06, 12:00 PM

So what are you gonna do with all of your spare time AFTER you are done? :D :D

Start a New Project, of Course! Next we are installing a 1000 gallon reef tank and building a really large wall unit for it.

Ruben

swithey

01-29-06, 03:50 PM

First we Cut and routered all our wood. We used particle board to make them. The method we used to made these panels will prove to last for a very long time without sagging or bowing. They are quite easy and fast to make once all your wood is cut and routered..

Layout and glue your back. We use ProBond Glue its the worlds strongest Wood glue.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/panels/DSC07890.jpg

Ruben,

A few questions on your panels:

1) Noticed you used regular particle board vs. MDF -- why? Just because it's less expensive or what you had on hand? I don't think it's that much lighter.

2) Did you have any issues with the wood splitting when you brad-nailed the beveled edges down from the top of the board (as shown in the pic above)?

3) Did you glue and nail the lower frame (before applying the beveled edges)?

4) Any reason you went with 3" width on the lower frame vs. maybe 1.5"?

5) ProBond Glue -- Available at HD?

SmX

01-29-06, 04:35 PM

Ruben,

A few questions on your panels:

1) Noticed you used regular particle board vs. MDF -- why? Just because it's less expensive or what you had on hand? I don't think it's that much lighter.

2) Did you have any issues with the wood splitting when you brad-nailed the beveled edges down from the top of the board (as shown in the pic above)?

3) Did you glue and nail the lower frame (before applying the beveled edges)?

4) Any reason you went with 3" width on the lower frame vs. maybe 1.5"?

5) ProBond Glue -- Available at HD?

1) Particle Board is less prone to split with nails if trying to do what we did above. Particle Board is also less expensive, less messy (not a ton of dust like MDF when routering and cutting), and less hazardous (It has been said, MDF contains Formaldehyde in it, known to cause cancer when breathing in it's Dust).

Fibreboard/Particle Board is sheet material made from glued and pressed softwood dust or chips, is commonly used throughout the building construction industry. Fibreboard is strong and has a stable, smooth and scratch-resistant surface. Because fibreboard is made from waste produced during wood processing, it is an efficient use of forest resources. Conventional medium density fibreboard (MDF) contains urea-formaldehyde or phenol-formaldehyde, which off-gasses into interior air. The health impacts of formaldehyde has prompted many building designers to specify formaldehyde-free fibreboard where possible.

2) No problems with splitting, that's why we used particle board.

3) Every joint got Glued

4) We used 3" to prevent future Bowing and sagging of panels. I want all the lines to stay tight as possible for as long as possible. See GPowers Frames, those are a very good design as well. We did our frames this way to accommodate the 2" treatments better.

5) You can get Elmers Pro Bond Glue at Home Depot, that's where I got it from. We got 1 gallon and it lasted a long time. You can get Smaller portions of it as well. just make sure you have a Empty Ketchup bottle or something to apply it easily.

This stuff bonds like 2 part epoxy. We glued 2 pieces of wood together and let it dry over night. The next day we tried to break it apart and it would not break at the bond. However, the wood ended up breaking instead, Yes it's that strong. Much Stronger than Liquid Nails by far.

Ruben

Yes

01-29-06, 11:53 PM

Just went through all the pages in the thread and must say Sandman you have done some amazing work. Can't wait to see the finished room. :cool:

FusionRx

01-29-06, 11:57 PM

So did you ever get a chance to compare the Quad G5 output of the HD trailers etc?? :)

SmX

01-30-06, 12:24 AM

Just went through all the pages in the thread and must say Sandman you have done some amazing work. Can't wait to see the finished room. :cool:

Thanks, That must of took you a few days to get through.
Welcome to the SandmanX Club. :)

Ruben

theirishgonzo

01-30-06, 12:41 AM

yes corectley glued joint of mdfb or partile bord is stronger than the surounding wood. when i made my sub i bonded 3 layers of mdfb togher. i rooled on the glew for a better bond and clamped.

SmX

01-30-06, 01:27 AM

So did you ever get a chance to compare the Quad G5 output of the HD trailers etc?? :)

Unfortunately Not Yet. But I'm pretty Sure it will be the winner. And I'm pretty sure it will be 20x louder too. That quad makes allot of fan noise when its working.

Ruben

Seytan

01-30-06, 03:24 AM

bpape

01-30-06, 07:47 AM

Screw through the end plates horizontally into the wall studs. For the ceiling, you'll go up into the joists above.

The stage is so heavy there's no way it's moving. Ask Ruben how many lbs of sand are in it ;)

MountainAsh

01-30-06, 12:20 PM

SmX

01-30-06, 01:03 PM

Very nice post Sandman. I have been following for many weeks. You discussed the 2" material you used behind the fabric. I was wondering if you had an acoustic engineer help you with use of treatments? I apologize if you addressed this and I don't remeber reading it.

Thanks again for the excellent post. :)

Dave

Thanks,

I had BPape from these forums plan out the treatments for my room.
He is big time into High End Audio and he was the perfect guy for me to work with. He has lots of experience with my type of Speakers as well.

Ruben

SmX

01-30-06, 09:38 PM

I've a stupid question :o How do you attach your panels on the wall ? I dont thing you glue them ? :confused:

One (maybe two) more stupid question :p

How did you fixed this wood framing ?

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/DSC05712.jpg

Is it just screwed in the dry wall and the ceiling ? the dry wall is just 1/2 " thick ... Is it solid enoug ? or do you screw through the dry wall in the wood framing behind ?

Are the front and back stages fixed to the floor ? If not, they don't move ?

Regards

>How do you attach your panels on the wall ? I dont thing you glue them ?<

They got Velcro on with industrial strength velcro.

>How did you fixed this wood framing ?<

Liquid Nails and 4" Screws going into the Studs and ceiling joists.

>Are the front and back stages fixed to the floor ? If not, they don't move ?<

They are both Floating. The front Stage has 4,000 lbs of sand In it (I know Bpape was waiting for that :D ). All the Joists are sitting on foam so there is no direct contact between the Floor and the joists in the Stage or platform. The Platform is filled with R-19 Insulation.

Ruben

2.35:1

01-30-06, 11:19 PM

How did you solve the problem with garage floor not being completly level when framing the walls?

SmX

01-30-06, 11:52 PM

How did you solve the problem with garage floor not being completly level when framing the walls?

It was pretty level already. The garage had tiled floors.

Ruben

2.35:1

01-30-06, 11:56 PM

Ok what do you plan on putting over the tile?

You stated this: Conventional medium density fibreboard (MDF) contains urea-formaldehyde or phenol-formaldehyde, which off-gasses into interior air. The health impacts of formaldehyde has prompted many building designers to specify formaldehyde-free fibreboard where possible

I was thinking that using fiberglass or mineral fiber for acoustical tuning of the room could be :eek: hazard to ones health as far as breathing it into your lungs? Even if you are using acoustial fabric to cover it, there are tiny holes for the material to escape through? What are you thoughts on this?

I am glad you decided to go 2.35:1 screen :D

SmX

01-31-06, 12:49 AM

Ok what do you plan on putting over the tile?

I was thinking that using fiberglass or mineral fiber for acoustical tuning of the room could be :eek: hazard to ones health as far as breathing it into your lungs? Even if you are using acoustial fabric to cover it, there are tiny holes for the material to escape through? What are you thoughts on this?

I am glad you decided to go 2.35:1 screen :D

Padding and Carpet over the Tile.

As far as Rigid Fiberglass Panels giving you cancer, If That was the case, there would be allot more people with cancer in this world due to HVAC Ducts/Trunks in homes being made out of Rigid Fiberglass. I don't think the EPA would approve the use of Rigid Fiberglass in HVAC if we were all going to die from it.

But Cutting up some MDF in a non ventilated room without a top notch respirator on could result In cancerous conditions.

2.35:1

01-31-06, 01:06 AM

That makes sense on the fiberglass. Thanks for the quick response

bdtank

01-31-06, 06:27 AM

larryep

01-31-06, 08:46 AM

SmX

01-31-06, 11:46 AM

Sandman thank so much for sharing the buildout process, it has truly inspired me to take my theater room to the next level. The wife is not too excited, but that is pretty normal when it comes to my hairbrained ideas :)

Two quick questions that I don't think you have covered yet. How did you go about making the semi-circular speaker covers in your columns? Secondly-how are the covers attached?

Thank You for reading my thread I'm happy it has inspired you.

The Speaker covers are made out of cut up half rounds. Basically the section of the Half round column that got cut out got used for the speaker cover frame. Then will get wrapped with perforated metal and the covered with GoM fabric.

First we started with the scrap cut outs of the half rounds (Notice the pen lines on it, that's where it's getting cut)..

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/3-705489.jpg

Once it was cut, it got sanded and painted black.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/4-702062.jpg

Then we wrapped it with GoM fabric

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/5-798469.jpg

Trimmed it

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/6-708911.jpg

Installed it

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/7-705057.jpg

We will be adding a metal perforated grill under the fabric for more support.

Ruben

FusionRx

01-31-06, 12:06 PM

Many people remove the speaker grills/cloth since they say that it colors their music. Have you tried that? Whats your take on that arguement?

SmX

01-31-06, 12:53 PM

Sandman,

Did you leave your garage door attached. One thing i noticed when cutting drywall in my garage was the wind can really make the garage door rattle. In other words do you hear the garage door when your in the well built theater?

Larry

Yes we left it in Place. I tied all the garage door loose metal down with shimmies and screws. So now you can bang on the garage door from outside and it doesn't rattle. We wanted to keep the garage door in place so the house remains the same from the street view.

Ruben

SmX

01-31-06, 02:05 PM

Many people remove the speaker grills/cloth since they say that it colors their music. Have you tried that? Whats your take on that arguement?

My Speakers have Built In Grills.

Front Mains:
Martin Logan Odyssey's

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/Odyssey-1000-774958.jpg

Center Channel:
Martin Logan Theater

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/theater_i_zoom1-754204.jpg

Sides and Rears:
Martin Logan Scripts

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/script_i_front_3quarter-765567.jpg

Ktulu_1

01-31-06, 02:14 PM

Seems a shame to hide those behind columns.

SVonhof

01-31-06, 03:00 PM

Many people remove the speaker grills/cloth since they say that it colors their music. Have you tried that? Whats your take on that arguement?

Fusion, typically, the people that are forming that opinion are doing it based off of two channel listening and are total purists. For the home theater applications, it is more about looks than getting the N'th degree of perfection from the speakers.

I once worked with an audio fanatic that removed his grills and then did some critical listening and ended up taking some simple terry-cloth towels and cutting holes in the middle and attaching them to his speaker face, so that the tweeter and mid were open to the room, but the waves coming off the sides of the driver would get partially absorbed by the cloth. This helped get rid of the coloration in the sound by the edge of the cabinets as well.

Many HT purists would rather have the image as the center of attention and the sound is secondary, and in order to do this, the speakers must be hidden or at least not detracting from the image.

larryep

01-31-06, 06:06 PM

if memory serves me right don't the mains have a amp on them?

SmX

01-31-06, 06:11 PM

if memory serves me right don't the mains have a amp on them?

No Amp on the Mains. However they have 2 10" woofers as well on each speaker.

Ruben

chirpie

01-31-06, 06:17 PM

Many HT purists would rather have the image as the center of attention and the sound is secondary, and in order to do this, the speakers must be hidden or at least not detracting from the image.

Actually, as someone who is in training to be one of those audio freaks, I think not seeing the speakers has an advantage too. Since you don't specifically see the object emitting the sound, the brain has an easier time accepting the soundstage.

Additionally, if the room has any eq involved, I would expect this to negate the speakers being behind the fabric even further.

I'd be surprised if people who visit Reuben's theater wouldn't be equally impressed on both counts (audio and video).

SmX

01-31-06, 06:56 PM

Actually, as someone who is in training to be one of those audio freaks, I think not seeing the speakers has an advantage too. Since you don't specifically see the object emitting the sound, the brain has an easier time accepting the soundstage.

Additionally, if the room has any eq involved, I would expect this to negate the speakers being behind the fabric even further.

I'd be surprised if people who visit Reuben's theater wouldn't be equally impressed on both counts (audio and video).

What's real nice about Martin Logans, is that they are really transparent. So even if you do see them in the room, the sound never seems like it's coming from them. When you Listen to accoustical type music with these, it Sounds like the musicians are right there with you. It really blows my mind.

Ruben

ronnie_jackson

01-31-06, 07:57 PM

WOW!!!!!! Nice speakers..... and price tag :D

chirpie

01-31-06, 08:35 PM

What's real nice about Martin Logans, is that they are really transparent. So even if you do see them in the room, the sound never seems like it's coming from them. When you Listen to accoustical type music with these, it Sounds like the musicians are right there with you. It really blows my mind.

Ruben

They really are a great sounding speaker. I have the luxery of being about 25 minutes from their factory and took a tour a few years ago. Really nice people. Their speaker was my second favorite out of all the speakers I auditioned. (and I listened to a lot)

Plus people freak out on how they work when they see them in action. That's always a hoot. ^_^

SmX

01-31-06, 10:23 PM

They really are a great sounding speaker. I have the luxery of being about 25 minutes from their factory and took a tour a few years ago. Really nice people. Their speaker was my second favorite out of all the speakers I auditioned. (and I listened to a lot)

Plus people freak out on how they work when they see them in action. That's always a hoot. ^_^

So what was your #1 Speaker Choice (Please don't Say Paradigms) :D

Test_Engineer

01-31-06, 11:39 PM

So what was your #1 Speaker Choice (Please don't Say Paradigms) :D

Bose :D

J/K :p

chirpie

02-01-06, 12:25 AM

So what was your #1 Speaker Choice (Please don't Say Paradigms) :D

As it turns out, I didn't much care for the Paradigms I heard (I listened to the 40's 60's and 100's and never heard the newer line they put out). They seemed... brittle? Does that make sense? In all fairness to Paradigms, the room I heard them in was far from ideal, and the salesman was definately more comfortable pushing the Mishubishi TVs they had. They wouldn't let me do an in-home so that was that.

I settled on these though, due in no small part to my trip to fellow AVSer Randybe's house for an extended audition.

http://www.salksound.com/HT1.html

It didn't hurt that Randy's room is set up really well, but they have to be the most neautral sounding speaker I've ever heard. And they do precussion really well, which is a great way to win me over. ^_^

SmX

02-01-06, 12:40 AM

As it turns out, I didn't much care for the Paradigms I heard (I listened to the 40's 60's and 100's and never heard the newer line they put out). They seemed... brittle? Does that make sense? In all fairness to Paradigms, the room I heard them in was far from ideal, and the salesman was definately more comfortable pushing the Mishubishi TVs they had. They wouldn't let me do an in-home so that was that.

I settled on these though, due in no small part to my trip to fellow AVSer Randybe's house for an extended audition.

http://www.salksound.com/HT1.html

It didn't hurt that Randy's room is set up really well, but they have to be the most neautral sounding speaker I've ever heard. And they do precussion really well, which is a great way to win me over. ^_^

Nice. My other Favorite Speakers I own are the B&W 802d's. The 802s got to be the most accurate speakers money can buy. We use them for Mastering Audio and Restoration. I was going to do my home theater with all B&W originally.

Ruben

SmX

02-01-06, 12:43 AM

I see allot of people are doing Garage Theaters now. What's up with that?
Hopefully I didn't start that craze :)

radm1f

02-01-06, 01:02 AM

SmX

02-01-06, 01:37 AM

I am also contemplating about using 803Ds for our setup. The dealer though told me that he would not drive them with my Denon AVR 4806, he would only use a separate amp and processor. Also he said that they would be a waste on a surround setup, he would set them up for hi fidelity stereo. Whats your take? and were you going to use the 802Ds for surround?

Mehran

Yeah, Using a Denon 4806 with B&W 802's is against the law in most countries :D

You Definitely need to use monoblocks to drive those correctly IMO. We use Bryston Amps to drive ours. That is pretty much industry standard in the worlds biggest Mastering facilities as well.

I was considering doing something like the HTMD1 for the Center 805s for Surrounds and the 802s for mains.

Ruben

radm1f

02-01-06, 01:49 AM

Thanks Ruben. That would have been one amazing system. So the fact that you're going with Martin Logans is it because they sound better?

SmX

02-01-06, 01:57 AM

Thanks Ruben. That would have been one amazing system. So the fact that you're going with Martin Logans is it because they sound better?

I Just like The transparency of the logans better.
To me they are both top notch speaker systems either way.

Ruben

cnuwer

02-01-06, 02:58 AM

It's been said before but, Awesome, Awesome thread Sandman!

Thanks so much for sharing your GREAT HT!

jmorris644

02-01-06, 09:12 AM

SVonhof

02-01-06, 09:29 AM

I settled on these though, due in no small part to my trip to fellow AVSer Randybe's house for an extended audition.

http://www.salksound.com/HT1.html

It didn't hurt that Randy's room is set up really well, but they have to be the most neautral sounding speaker I've ever heard. And they do precussion really well, which is a great way to win me over. ^_^

Chirpie, Jim Salk was posting pictures of his speakers on the Very High Quality DIY speakers anywhere? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=170942&page=51&pp=30) thread and WOW, he does some amazing work with veneers! Some amazing looking speakers. Those are definatly speakers you don't want to hide!

http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht3-bubinga.jpg
bubinga veneer

http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht3-fidmahog-cu.jpg
detail showing baffles and veneers.

BIGmouthinDC

02-01-06, 11:57 AM

Wave smave. I say at 100K we all jump in our cars and pay a visit!

SVonhof

02-01-06, 01:32 PM

Long drive from Central Cali. :(

bdtank

02-01-06, 05:08 PM

Sandman-thanks for posting the column assembly pictures-greatly appreciate it.

SmX

02-01-06, 05:38 PM

Ruben,

So... the Martin Logans are going to be inside the pillars, right? Aren't the woofers behind the lower wood area?

Also, you are at 82K+ in views. I think we all will have to do the wave when you get to 100K ! :D

Joe

The whole Speaker is in the Open section of the column. The Logan surrounds are like 44" Tall and our column openings are 46" tall.

83k + views? I got more views than the "Acoustical Treatments Master Thread" which is a Sticky on top? Watch Out "What is the best 5 minutes to show when showing off your Home Theater?" thread Here I Come !!!! :D

"Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins!" is going to probably be the most viewed thread in this forum, and AVS took my Avatar away. :(

The wave sounds good.

jmorris644

02-01-06, 06:30 PM

Wave smave. I say at 100K we all jump in our cars and pay a visit!

I think you are probable 1/2 the distance that I am :)

jmorris644

02-01-06, 06:34 PM

83k + views? I got more views than the "Acoustical Treatments Master Thread" which is a Sticky on top? Watch Out "What is the best 5 minutes to show when showing off your Home Theater?" thread Here I Come !!!! :D.

Maybe cause of all of the "bumps" everyone keeps giving you. You are pretty sticky too :)

"Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins!" is going to probably be the most viewed thread in this forum, and AVS took my Avatar away. :(

Probably taking up too much bandwidth with all of your reply messages in this thread :)

SmX

02-02-06, 04:16 AM

So did you ever get a chance to compare the Quad G5 output of the HD trailers etc?? :)

Did the Test Last Night.
The Quad uses 63% of its CPU to playback 2 1080p videos. Its Probably about the Same as the machine I made.

Ruben

jmorris644

02-02-06, 07:36 AM

Did the Test Last Night.
The Quad uses 63% of its CPU to playback 2 1080p videos. Its Probably about the Same as the machine I made.

Ruben

Posted at 3:16AM? Man, how much sleep do you live on?!?!?!?!? Like 10 minutes per day?? :eek:

SVonhof

02-02-06, 08:59 AM

"Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins!" is going to probably be the most viewed thread in this forum, and AVS took my Avatar away. :(

Any reason why they did it? Maybe they figured the "X" stood for something? The Avatars on here are the mildest I have seen of any forum and that was nothing bad.

chinadog

02-02-06, 10:37 AM

The rules say the following (from the "Edit Avatar" section under User CP):

Custom Avatar
The purpose of Avatars on this board is so that people can put a face to who they are conversing with. It also helps to identify each other when we get together for gatherings. You don't have to use an Avatar if you do not wish to, but if you do, you MUST use a recent photo of yourself, a headshot showing your face. It should be a recognizable likeness of you and your face should not be obscured. It should be clear enough for people to see. If you have a custom avatar and want to keep it as it is, leave the fields below as they are.

Not sure I agree, but I've been in other forums that people just go rampant with all sorts of crap.

Bud

ebr

02-02-06, 10:50 AM

Wow - and all this time I didn't believe that Terry WAS Groucho's long lost twin...

chirpie

02-02-06, 11:53 AM

Did the Test Last Night.
The Quad uses 63% of its CPU to playback 2 1080p videos. Its Probably about the Same as the machine I made.

Ruben

Cool. (Or maybe not... how hard did the fans rev up?)

It'll be fun to see what comes out for the towers in the future with the new processors. I can't wait until all the apps get switched over to universal binary. Getting addicted to technology is a slippery slope. ^_^

SmX

02-02-06, 12:38 PM

Cool. (Or maybe not... how hard did the fans rev up?)

It'll be fun to see what comes out for the towers in the future with the new processors. I can't wait until all the apps get switched over to universal binary. Getting addicted to technology is a slippery slope. ^_^

Hey Chirpie, I'm gonna need some new Renders now. Is it Possible to make a Render of my room now with all the new Changes? I also want to do it with a 2.35.1 screen. A few pages back I have the panel dimensions I posted for ebr.

Let Me Know

Ruben

2.35:1

02-02-06, 01:05 PM

Looks like sandmanx has the guts to go true home theater 2.35:1
GOOD JOB SANDMANX! :D

SmX

02-02-06, 01:10 PM

Looks like sandmanx has the guts to go true home theater 2.35:1
GOOD JOB SANDMANX! :D

I didn't realize it took guts to do that.
In the early stages, I just never knew if that was a good option.

Ruben

chirpie

02-02-06, 03:57 PM

Hey Chirpie, I'm gonna need some new Renders now. Is it Possible to make a Render of my room now with all the new Changes? I also want to do it with a 2.35.1 screen. A few pages back I have the panel dimensions I posted for ebr.

Let Me Know

Ruben

I'll e-mail ya so as not to clutter up the thread.

chirpie

02-02-06, 04:18 PM

Looks like sandmanx has the guts to go true home theater 2.35:1
GOOD JOB SANDMANX! :D

Hey, most of my favorite movies are 1-1:85 or 1-1:66 so don't hate us because we're different! ^_~

SmX

02-02-06, 08:55 PM

Some updates:

For the theater door on the inside we are going to make it as if there is no door by continuing the panels, treatments and mouldings over it so it matches the opposite wall. So otherwords, a hidden door.

For the past few days we were trying to figure out a solution to have the 2" deep mouldings on the door and still be able to open it without having a big gap in the mouldings or have them jam up with each other when the door is opened too much.

But we found a solution... Its better to Show you than try to explain...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08000.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08002.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08003.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08004.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08005.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08006.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08021.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08026.jpg

Now that the columns are round, we needed to find a way to mount the Lutron Grafik Eye in the Column by the entrance. It was a little easier before with Square columns. Yes it would of been easir to cut a hole in the dry wall and let all the sound go out it, but I'm not trying to do that. So this is what we came up with to solve that problem...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08034.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08038.jpg

What do you guys think?

SmX

02-02-06, 09:02 PM

Also, I forget to mention, one of the Sony 777es 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxes came in today. I'm gonna do some quality comparisons between it and the HTPC before I buy another 1 or 2 of them.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/DSC08014.jpg

Ruben

SmX

02-02-06, 09:13 PM

I Need your opinions on How to Set up my Rack.

The Following Components are all Rack Mountable and I want to see what you guys think as far as set up from top to bottom should be...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/HD-SAT520-781771.jpg

2 or 3 of these...
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-solution/483799564.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/HTPC-Finished/DSC07406.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/fs_dv59avi-784370.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/xbox360curves-716740.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/HTPS7000%20big-769491.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/monster-2000-767010.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/avr%20507%20blk-787294.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/ref%20200.2blk-779361.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/ref%20200.2blk-779361.jpg

ronnie_jackson

02-02-06, 09:17 PM

Is your middle name "creativity"?

Ronnie

mcascio

02-02-06, 09:29 PM

SVonhof

02-02-06, 09:33 PM

SVonhof

02-02-06, 09:34 PM

Mario, you posted as I was typing. Same ideas for component placement though.

jmorris644

02-02-06, 09:58 PM

I agree with Mario and SCott but I would also make sure tht you spread the heat aroung and ensure there is enough air space between them. I have fried power transistors before. :(

Joe

mmmkam

02-02-06, 10:05 PM

SmX

02-02-06, 10:08 PM

Is your middle name "creativity"?

Ronnie

Yep, It's the same as yours Ronnie ;)

Ruben

SmX

02-02-06, 10:14 PM

Ruben,

I would say the HTPC should be at eye level because of the Touch Screen.
Next, I would say the DVD Changer would also be nice just below the touch screen. You'll notice some very small numbers in the carousel so putting too high may make it difficult to load. If you plan to fill it up right away, this would be less of an issue since DVDLobby will have total control over it. Any of the other devices that don't require interaction with or are serially controlled can be lower or higher.

Hope that helps.

Hi Mario,

Yes, I figured to put all the Heavy Stuff at the Bottom, but I was just worried about heat Rising. Even though that closet will have an HVAC Supply and Return I wasn't too sure about heat distribution.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

02-02-06, 10:20 PM

Ruben, for equipment placement, you gotta think about the function and the amount of times you will need to do something with each peice of equipment. Obviously, you won't have to load the DVD Jukeboxes very frequently once they are loaded, but just to load them would be a pain if you have to sit on the floor, so I would say put the amps and power centers at the bottom and maybe top as well and put the HTPC and DVD players in the middle, where accessability are at a premium.

As for your door solution, you are very good. That proves that you have some ingenuity and your thought processes run deep. :) Just make sure you have some extra rubber bands handy for when those break!

Thanks for your input and compliments. I may put a Power Center up top and the Rest of the Heavy Stuff below with All the most functioning pieces in the middle. I figured once the jukeboxes get Loaded, they will stay loaded. I have 1k dvds to load and I finally got them all in DVD Lobby's Server. Now to name the Slots for the Jukebox :)

As far as rubberbands, that's all I had laying around the house, we figured, get it working first, then worry about heavier rubber bands later.

Ruben

SmX

02-02-06, 10:21 PM

I agree with Mario and SCott but I would also make sure tht you spread the heat aroung and ensure there is enough air space between them. I have fried power transistors before. :(

Joe

Yeah, I have some 2 rack space grills I can throw In between the Amps and AVR.

Ruben

SmX

02-02-06, 10:29 PM

Ruben,

You never fail to amaze. Fantastic door solution.

For the GE mount did you give any thought to mounting that bracket recessed in the column in order to maintain the outside round perimeter. That way you could hide it with a small veneered plug or door for when you wanted manual access to it or put a curved piece of glass over it to still have a smooth outside curve.

Beautiful work all around!!

Thanks!

We tried to recess it in the column first and It looked really wierd. Even if it gets a cover on it, you don't want to be walking in a dark room trying to open a hidden column door and reach in and hope you hit the right button all the time. So this was the best solution.

This is also on a column that will not be in direct view when watching a movie. The only other alternative was to put a extension controller out side the theater and hide the grafik eye. It is a 6 Zone GE and will have an IR Feeder attached to it.

Another Solution would be to mount it sideways (Tall) on the square side of the column so it is right next to the door when you walk in.

I am open to any Other ideas before I make the Final Cuts into the columns, so everyone please chime in.

ebr

02-02-06, 10:35 PM

sleeks

02-02-06, 10:38 PM

Also, I forget to mention, one of the Sony 777es 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxes came in today. I'm gonna do some quality comparisons between it and the HTPC before I buy another 1 or 2 of them.
Ruben

Very interested to hear your results of the comparisons.

The idea of the jukebox is so nice and being able to control it with DVD Lobby is a nice feature.

theirishgonzo

02-02-06, 10:49 PM

if you can have the door swing out you will not have to do all this. but it might be code to swing in.

darkman2003

02-02-06, 10:56 PM

That's it!!!

I'm packing my bagges and moving to Boca Raton, Florida to work for Sandman .

What you say Sandman can i be your Apprentice ??? Then i can buy all those cool

toys you have . I really like that Sony 777es 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxe .I have learn

so much by reading this thread keep up the outstanding job!!!!.

We can be the Dynamic Duo SANDMAN & DARKMAN!!! Notice you got top billing LOL

DARKMAN

SmX

02-02-06, 10:59 PM

That's it!!!

I'm packing my bagges and moving to Boca Raton, Florida to work for Sandman .

What you say Sandman can i be your Apprentice ??? Then i can buy all those cool

toys you have . I really like that Sony 777es 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxe .I have learn

so much by reading this thread keep up the outstanding job!!!!.

We can be the Dynamic Dual SANDMAN & DARKMAN!!! Notice you got top billing LOL

DARKMAN

ROFLMAO!!!!

SmX

02-02-06, 11:00 PM

if you can have the door swing out you will not have to do all this. but it might be code to swing in.

What Door? The Column or The Theater?

Ruben

SmX

02-02-06, 11:05 PM

I am assuming that you will have full control of the GE via MainLobby and/or some other really cool multi-function remote control.

Given that, I say hide the GE and install a simple switch at the door. Program the switch to go to the standard "file in" scene on the GE and then handle all other lighting control via your remote.

You can install the GE inside the column or wherever that you can get access to it for programming and then forget about it.

This is what I would ultimately like to Do. I can Hide it inside the Column at eye level to program and forget. I was just worried about a switch out side.

Like you said, I have hopes to have a remote that can handle the rest. I will be integrading this all with Main Lobby.

Can you post a compatible Switch for this GE? I have the LUTRON GRAFIK EYE GRX-3106-A.

SmX

02-02-06, 11:06 PM

Very interested to hear your results of the comparisons.

The idea of the jukebox is so nice and being able to control it with DVD Lobby is a nice feature.

I'm setting it up for the tests now.

Ruben

ScottJ0007

02-02-06, 11:22 PM

Can you post a compatible Switch for this GE? I have the LUTRON GRAFIK EYE GRX-3106-A.Here is Lutron's SeeTouch keypad
http://www.lutron.com/seetouch/Images/SeeTouchControl.jpg

Here is an online source:
http://www.hankselectric.com/productCat56852.ctlg

theirishgonzo

02-02-06, 11:58 PM

ronnie_jackson

02-03-06, 12:11 AM

How much do you guys want to bet that the next update we see will be the grafik eye recessed into the column, with this cool automatic sliding door that moves up or revolves around into the column as you approach it with your hand. Sorta like the star trek doors.

I can see it now...... :p

SVonhof

02-03-06, 12:27 AM

SmX

02-03-06, 02:04 AM

Here is Lutron's SeeTouch keypad
http://www.lutron.com/seetouch/Images/SeeTouchControl.jpg

Here is an online source:
http://www.hankselectric.com/productCat56852.ctlg

Thanks Scott. That should work just fine then.

Ruben

SmX

02-03-06, 02:10 AM

the door to the theater with it swinging in you have to make that trim piece so you dont get gaps but if you swing the door out you can have a lot less gaps. all hidden doors have this problem. also if you move the door farther in to the room.

Thanks for your Ideas,

Oh, ok I got you. Well the way my entrance is set up, the door can only swing into the theater. I suppose, I could of found some heavy duty hinges to support the door and open like a cabinet door. If I would of moved the Door further in the room, the treatments and panels would of been sticking out too much.

Ruben

SmX

02-03-06, 02:15 AM

YldeSyde

02-03-06, 02:16 AM

Ruben,

I have both the Monster Power AVS 2000 (68 lbs) and HTPS 7000 (44 lbs) and they don't put off much heat or require ventilation so typically they are placed up top or down at the bottom. The only time you will need to use the buttons is if they are tripped or you have a power outage. My A/V receiver/amplifier puts off the most heat. Next would be my HDTV Satellite receiver. I think you should balance both the weight, heat output, and ventialtion requirements along with the usage requirments. I assume your shelves can handle all of the weight. That was my biggest problem...finding a rack to support everything.

I agree that your display and keyboard should be at the appropriate ergonomic height. I'm not sure if that tells you anything new, but I thought I would offer my input. Great Job. I have been following you from the beginning (well, as soon as swithey told me about you lol).

Rob_McArthur

02-03-06, 02:26 AM

Or you could just mount your GE on the outside of the room near the doorway as I did. I didn't want it cluttering up my room or making any wall penetrations so I removed it from the room completely. Everything in my room will be automated and I can turn on the lights from my remote if the need arises. I only need to turn the lights on as I head into the room and this way they are on when I open the door. Just my 2 cents.

I am sure any way you do it will look great, If you are putting it on the column I vote for recess with a cover.

Rob

SmX

02-03-06, 02:29 AM

I got Side tracked watching the DIY home Theater Programs that were on Tonight on the DIY channel.

After That, I hooked up the Sony DVD Jukebox and the HTPC to the projector. Ran some quick comparisons. With nothing calibrated, the HTPC is slightly better. The HTPC Displayed Better colors/contrast and a bit of a Sharper picture. That may be mostly due to the FFDShow & dScaler Settings. As far as a video quality between the Component and DVI cable, the difference wasn't really that noticeable to make a fuss. I haven't read yet, but If the DVD jukebox can be calibrated within it like my Pioneer 59av, then it may be pretty damn close to the HTPC.

So to sum it up, The Sony Jukebox looks good enough for me to buy another 1 or 2 to store and playback my 1k DVDs. I will continue to rip all future dvds and any special Superbit encoded DVDs to the HTPC as well.

Ruben

SmX

02-03-06, 02:40 AM

mmmkam

02-03-06, 08:30 AM

Just get a screen that is as wide and as tall as you can possible fit then entertain us with another 900 posts in this thread as you embark on building the ultimate DIY screen masking system!!!

SVonhof

02-03-06, 08:52 AM

Ruben, I was going to suggest a 4 way masking system, but those suckers get expensive fast! If you were to do that, then stick with a solid screen so that the perferations don't go into the cost. You don't want your $1300 non-perf screen going to $6k or more for perfs and masking! Good luck on figuring it out. If you do watch much HDTV, I would stick with something that can handle the 16:9 and maybe get a horizontal masking system to mask for the 2.35:1 and others. Don't worry about 4:3 modes because who wants to watch 4:3 tv!

ScottJ0007

02-03-06, 08:59 AM

Now just One of my biggest confusions is with this new 2.35.1 screen size. I really loved the Size of the 16:9 I had before when watching HD and playing xBox 360. Now if I go with the narrowness of 2.35.1 my 16:9 is going to be much smaller.It doesn't seem to me that it makes much sense to go to a 2.35:1 screen unless you go W-I-D-E and keep the same height as you would have for your 16:9 screen. Room width becomes the limiting factor. No matter what screen size you end up with, I think you have to figure out a masking solution. I like mmmkam's suggestion... " Just get a screen that is as wide and as tall as you can possible fit then entertain us with another 900 posts in this thread as you embark on building the ultimate DIY screen masking system!!!"

KWhite

02-03-06, 09:43 AM

Non perf 16:9 with top/bottom masking for 1.85 and 2.35 images.

swithey

02-03-06, 09:43 AM

jrfuda

02-03-06, 10:00 AM

SmX

02-03-06, 10:08 AM

Ruben,

On the bondo you used to smooth things out before applying the veneer...

I've only seen stuff like that at Auto Parts stores in the past (but never payed much attention anywhere else). Where did you get yours? Is there a particular kind I should get? Just wanted to know before I went looking all over for it.

Steve

It's just regular auto bondo you buy at an auto parts store. It was like $25 for 1 gallon, it comes with a tube of the second part (It's 2 Part).

Ruben

SmX

02-03-06, 10:39 AM

Just get a screen that is as wide and as tall as you can possible fit then entertain us with another 900 posts in this thread as you embark on building the ultimate DIY screen masking system!!!

You Got some Serious Jokes, huh? :D

SmX

02-03-06, 10:45 AM

SmX

02-03-06, 10:52 AM

Ruben, that is a remarkable solution for the hiding of the door.

Do you plan on replacing the leastic bands with springs?

Also, have you considered the sliding of the "hider" causing scratches/wear on the other molding over time? I was thinking that you may be able to get some teflon material (like the material they sell for mouse feet) and back the "hider" with it, thereby reducing the friction and prolonging the time it takes to cause any signs of wear on the molding, or do you already have another solution in mind?

You're really going to enjoy your 777.

I will just probably use a heavier rubber band solution for longevity. We don't have any type of pressure on that piece, the rubber bands only keep it from flapping open.

We will use a type of teflon or equivilent for the slider as well. But like I said, there is barely any pressure on that flap.

Ruben

Mark P

02-03-06, 11:02 AM

It doesn't seem to me that it makes much sense to go to a 2.35:1 screen unless you go W-I-D-E and keep the same height as you would have for your 16:9 screen. Room width becomes the limiting factor. No matter what screen size you end up with, I think you have to figure out a masking solution.

Other than the fact that he gets full resolution on 2.35:1 movies which if I am not mistaken is around 30% more resolution than projecting black bars, he has a HTPC, no need for a scaler. Spielberg and comedys are about the only flicks where a 16 x 9 screen would be to his benefit and of course HDTV but since this is a "Home Theater" he will probably be showing movies the majority of the time and full resolution 2.35:1 and an extra foot to place his center speaker sounds like the best option.

Then if he really wants to mess around with a masking system he only has to mask the sides and if he goes with automatic curtains and has a decent projector that has good blacks he can dump the masking all together when watching Saving Private Ryan or Sin City.

The impact a 2.35:1 screen @ full resolution as compared to a 16 x 9 is huge, and in this theater it would be a shame to go any other route

SmX

02-03-06, 11:20 AM

Other than the fact that he gets full resolution on 2.35:1 movies which if I am not mistaken is around 30% more resolution than projecting black bars, he has a HTPC, no need for a scaler. Spielberg and comedys are about the only flicks where a 16 x 9 screen would be to his benefit and of course HDTV but since this is a "Home Theater" he will probably be showing movies the majority of the time and full resolution 2.35:1 and an extra foot to place his center speaker sounds like the best option.

Then if he really wants to mess around with a masking system he only has to mask the sides and if he goes with automatic curtains and has a decent projector that has good blacks he can dump the masking all together when watching Saving Private Ryan or Sin City.

The impact a 2.35:1 screen @ full resolution as compared to a 16 x 9 is huge, and in this theater it would be a shame to go any other route

Thanks Mark. The projector we have is the Optoma H-79.

I was trying to get a bigger screen sample from Screen Research Since their offices are around the corner from me, but they have nothing bigger for samples.
However, they share offices with Accoustic Innovations and The Showroom there uses a ClearPix 2 screen. The have a couple Digital PJs there to sample on.

So my question to all you guys. Do you think the slight dullness of the screen is going to be a bad choice? The only benefit I see of the duller picture is the screen door dissapears more from close up but the real fine detail dissapears too.

Thanks
Ruben

ebr

02-03-06, 11:20 AM

You're really going to enjoy your 777.

I've seen a lot of people say this. I have a Pioneer Elite DVF-07 (301 disk changer). Had it since I built my first room (almost 6 years now). Is the Sony a lot better in some way...?

Mark P

02-03-06, 12:04 PM

Thanks Mark. The projector we have is the Optoma H-79.

I was trying to get a bigger screen sample from Screen Research Since their offices are around the corner from me, but they have nothing bigger for samples.
However, they share offices with Accoustic Innovations and The Showroom there uses a ClearPix 2 screen. The have a couple Digital PJs there to sample on.

So my question to all you guys. Do you think the slight dullness of the screen is going to be a bad choice? The only benefit I see of the duller picture is the screen door dissapears more from close up but the real fine detail dissapears too.

Thanks
Ruben

When we were pricing screens at 14' wide the Stewart I got from AVS was less than half the price of the Clearpix, From all of our testing with different materials the fabric screens were considerably dim ( Is it 10 or 20% light passthrough, I cant remember) but supposedly they improve blacks, we didnt need improvements in blacks so this was a mute point for us . I dont think running the bulb in economy mode is an option either but someone else help him here. Bulbs are expensive and dont last very long.

My Audio Guru had no choice but to go with a perf screen and got every available screen material and ended up making his own screen out of Danzian fabric if I recall the correct name since he is much more into audio than video and it measured nearly as good or as good as the Clearpix if I recall correctly read this its his results and he is very into his audio http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?p=183562
this is his results and he tested EVERY option there was and actually like the picture on the Danzian the most If i recall but did admit all were dull compared to traditional non perf screens.

Vutec is another option, call Jason or Alan @ AVS and ask them about feedback they have received

I must say that the Stewart screen we received was inferior to none in its packaging, durability and absolute stunning picture which we wanted more than anything and since I built my own speakers we will tweak the crossovers as needed to achieve what we need when the room is complete. As it is now the voices come out of the mouths of the actors on the screen but is sometimes un intelligeble but we think this is the fact that the room is still horrible with no treatments.

The center speakers center is 4.25' down from the center of the screen http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=566082&page=3&pp=30 one bad thing about a non perf screen in our situation is that the subwoofer shakes the screen material but thats alot of vinyl suspended on the frame, I would imagine this would be reduced considerably with a fabric woven screen.

SmX

02-03-06, 12:31 PM

When we were pricing screens at 14' wide the Stewart I got from AVS was less than half the price of the Clearpix, From all of our testing with different materials the fabric screens were considerably dim ( Is it 10 or 20% light passthrough, I cant remember) but supposedly they improve blacks, we didnt need improvements in blacks so this was a mute point for us . I dont think running the bulb in economy mode is an option either but someone else help him here. Bulbs are expensive and dont last very long.

My Audio Guru had no choice but to go with a perf screen and got every available screen material and ended up making his own screen out of Danzian fabric if I recall the correct name since he is much more into audio than video and it measured nearly as good or as good as the Clearpix if I recall correctly read this its his results and he is very into his audio http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?p=183562
this is his results and he tested EVERY option there was and actually like the picture on the Danzian the most If i recall but did admit all were dull compared to traditional non perf screens.

Vutec is another option, call Jason or Alan @ AVS and ask them about feedback they have received

I must say that the Stewart screen we received was inferior to none in its packaging, durability and absolute stunning picture which we wanted more than anything and since I built my own speakers we will tweak the crossovers as needed to achieve what we need when the room is complete. As it is now the voices come out of the mouths of the actors on the screen but is sometimes un intelligeble but we think this is the fact that the room is still horrible with no treatments.

The center speakers center is 4.25' down from the center of the screen http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=566082&page=3&pp=30 one bad thing about a non perf screen in our situation is that the subwoofer shakes the screen material but thats alot of vinyl suspended on the frame, I would imagine this would be reduced considerably with a fabric woven screen.

Awesome Post Mark. I was waiting for someone to post some info like this here.

I can't believe your guy thought the Dazian Fabric was was good. I got a Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth Sample and it completely Sucked. I was thinking maybe DLP technology doesn't display well on it.

I just called VuTec to pick up some Samples, they are not to far from us.
I will see how they test out.

Ruben

Mark P

02-03-06, 01:02 PM

I can't believe your guy thought the Dazian Fabric was was good. I got a Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth Sample and it completely Sucked. I was thinking maybe DLP technology doesn't display well on it.

Ruben

Remember , hes an audio guy. All he cares about is sound. He was not really more or less impressed with any of the products he tested in a visual sense. He was impressed with saving money. The interesting part is the complexity of the testing he did on the sound qualitys. This may help you and it may not but his conclusions are very interesting on speaker placement and such with all the different cloths

SmX

02-03-06, 04:14 PM

We just came back from VuTec with the Screen Samples. They have allot of different type of perforated materials and we got 8.5" x 11" samples of all of them. I also went to the Fabric shops and picked up some Different Audio Transparent materials to sample with for screens.

It should be a very interesting Night :)

Ruben

SmX

02-03-06, 06:19 PM

Well we started getting the treatments and panels up on the door today. The reason why I didnt do a regular Wood door was because one of my front reflection points lands on the Door. So the door needed to be treated. So with that being, we decided to make a hidden door system on that wall. There will be no door knob inside the theater, It will be a push button release in the moulding.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-panels/DSC08042.jpg

The panels are still not adjusted properly in this shot. We just wanted to test this Idea. It seems to be working great.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-panels/DSC08043.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-panels/DSC08045.jpg

This how the paneles were made.
Were using some bands to bunch the fabric behind the panel better between the 2 panels when the door is open.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/door-panels/DSC08041.jpg

SmX

02-03-06, 08:33 PM

I checked out all the Samples I got today with one guy that has really good trained eyes. From what I learned, is, that they all look pretty good when you see them by themself. I bought some 60" x 140" Accoustically transparent Fabric and hung it up in the theater and I was blown away. The Image and Colors looked amazing by itself full size on a $30 piece of Fabric. But when you A & B samples there is always one that is better than the other for one reason or another.

So After that, I mounted the Projector in the theater and hung some fabric. The Widest picture I can get with the Distance and Projector I'm working with is 122" which is the width of the Da-Lite Screen I have Now (Now that was some right on pre Calculations).

Is there any Special atachment lens one can use to get a wider picture or larger picture?

Ruben

SmX

02-04-06, 03:19 AM

mcascio

02-04-06, 03:22 AM

Ruben,

Unfortunately Sony dropped the ball and didn't put a serial port on the device.

SmX

02-04-06, 03:29 AM

Ruben,

Unfortunately Sony dropped the ball and didn't put a serial port on the device.

Hey, Your up pretty Late :)
Yeah I just ran into that Sony and figured I'd ask. Thanks for chiming in.

Ruben

mcascio

02-04-06, 03:33 AM

Best time to actually get work done Ruben. :)

Looking forward to the AVSForum movie night in your theater. I'll bring the popcorn. ;)

SmX

02-04-06, 04:06 AM

Best time to actually get work done Ruben. :)

. ;)

Sounds like my Philosophy as well. :)

Ruben

SmX

02-04-06, 04:08 AM

I posted this in the Screen section, so I figured I would share iwith you guys in my thread as well...

I recently decided to Build my own screen after going through a Moire problem with my DLP Projector and my Da-Lite Hih Contrast Cinema Perf Screen.

I've gotten Perforated screen samples From Dazian, Stewart, Da-Lite, VuTec, Screen Research and more to name a few.

I pretty much like the VuTec Vinyl open Weave Screen Material as far as picture reproduction goes. I know some of you guys here are not to big into the picture quality, but I am. I am also big time into the Sound quality too. Due to the nature of the business I am in, I study Video and Audio quality on a daily basis and know what I am looking for in a screen material.

First off, I tried the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth on my Optoma H-79 DLP Projector and it looked plain terrible to me. The image clearity degraded greatly by dulling, the colors got washed out, the Blacks sucked, Contrast sucked, the colors were bleeding too much on the screen as well. I also tried adding a black back to the sample and it just brought the contrast up better.

So I tried the Screen Research CP2 Material next. This was a big improvment over the Dazian but it still seemed to dull the quality of the Picture.

So today I got Screen Samples from VuTec and the woven Samples from VuTec were the best I saw so far. So I did some further research online and found the same Vinyl open Weave material VuTec uses but at around $12 a yard and comes in 62 - 72" widths by whatever Lengths.

I am ordering a bunch of different whit and grey open weaves to Sample. If i can find the right one, maybe it will cost me $75 to make the screen opposed to buying a Screen Research screen at $3k - $4k

Ruben

sk8conz

02-04-06, 05:03 AM

I see you used industrial velcro to hang the wall panels. I have seen several other people mention it in the forums, but having never seen or used it I am wondering :-

How strong is it ? How heavy are the panels you're hanging ? Does it stick forever ? or is it likely to come loose in say 12-18 months ?

2) Going back quite a few pages now ;) but could you tell me how wide your soffit was, and how wide and tall the veneered edge piece on the soffit was ?

Thanks

Darrin

SmX

02-04-06, 05:25 AM

The Velcro is incredibly Strong. It's funny you asked, because today we were doing some tests with it while something was drying. There is no way in the world that those panels will ever come off the wall at their on will. It takes allot of strength to get a panel off the wall. The Panels I'm putting up weigh 15 lbs. or so.

Soffits were 21" wide and Light tray was 5" tall.

Ruben

SmX

02-04-06, 05:38 AM

Popped the PJ up to test the ratios to get started on the Screen Wall this weekend (Hopefully)

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/pj-screen/DSC08046.jpg

Here is a 2.35.1 ratio. This is at 122" wide x 53" Tall. The screen basically goes from the front edge of the left soffit to the front edge of the Right Soffit. I mocked up the pictures below to scale to show you the Ratios with the room size... The screen wont be that high, I just had to staple the fabric up fast witout building a frame.

2.35:1 (122" x 53")

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/pj-screen/DSC08054.jpg

16:9 Maintaining the constant height of 53" above..

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/pj-screen/DSC08054-3.jpg

16:9 in Red and 2.35:1 in Black 53" Height

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/pj-screen/DSC08054-4.jpg

Here is my other 16:9 Option I could do at 122" x 70" then Mask off the top and bottom for the 2.35:1 films...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/pj-screen/DSC08054-2.jpg

Here is a screen Shot on a $40 piece of fabric.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/pj-screen/DSC08056.jpg

What do you guys think I should go with?

Ruben

ebr

02-04-06, 10:10 AM

Give it up -- where did you get the $40 fabric that kicks CCCs butt...??

On the size - given everything else you've done, you should probably go for the constant height 2.35:1. It will cost more (need a lens) but not that much relative to everything else you've done.

Mark P

02-04-06, 10:34 AM

Is there any Special atachment lens one can use to get a wider picture or larger picture?

Ruben

Theres an anamorphic lens which you would want if you were going constant height anyway. It stretchs the picture horizontilly ( I think some stretch vertical as well) then you use the TheaterTek Aspect Ratio settings to adjust the picture to fit the screen.

We also have to use a scaler when using DirecTv since you cant run an HDTivo into Media Center

KWhite

02-04-06, 11:20 AM

What are you going to watch the most? Personnally I would go for the largest 16:9 image and mask vertically for 1.85 and 2.35. Easier masking system to make as well.

Mark P

02-04-06, 11:30 AM

What do you guys think I should go with?

Ruben

That would be decided with ease as soon as you figure out what it is that will be projected the most and/or If you want black bars when watching 2.35:1 robbing you of 33% of your resolution. If you watch alot of TV , hardly any movies go 16 x 9 , If your going to watch alot of movies and little TV then the choice is obvious.

Do you want HDTV big and movies considerably smaller with 33% loss on resolution

or

Do you want movies big and HDTV considerably smaller with no loss of resolution

If your not having the screen covered by curtains than 2.35:1 would be a must for the visual impact of walking into an actual theater, to me 16 x 9 just looks to close to a TV screen. Once we hung the screen we really tossed the idea of no curtains around for several days just because of the impact of the Stewart Screen when you walk into the room, it is the whitest white I have ever seen and with proper lighting it really drops your jaw when walking into the room.

take those pics you made where you masked off the screen sizes and fill them with white or crop a favorite movie and do it sort of like this

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/HT059.jpg

As far as using cloth as a screen, I would SERIOUSLY reconsider a gain screen, when we were waiting for the screen we went out and bought the whitest white paints we could find and heres the image

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/moulin3.jpg

We thought it was amazing and started to wonder if we wasted money, and heres after the screen

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/P9250504.jpg

I am just wondering what fabric , vinyl coated or not is going to give you the best picture possible and I just cant see it. Everything we saw was not worth moving the center speaker down right below the screen but again I have external crossovers and tweek the sound any way we choose.

Good luck , my vote is the biggest 2.35:1 you can go for and not see screendoor ( which is probably 1.25 screen width back, not familiar with your PJ so I dont know for sure) and the center speaker below, do audio testing right now and see if you can tell the difference using your fabric. put it behind, then move it below. We did all this before the PJ and screen ever showed up. In my opinion it would be a major shame to spend the time making such a beautiful room to shock and awe everyone that comes in and then turn the lights off and have the next 2 hours look half as good as it could.

Let me know when youve read this and I will edit out all my pics as to not clutter up your wonderful thread

Mark P

02-04-06, 12:01 PM

What are you going to watch the most? Personnally I would go for the largest 16:9 image and mask vertically for 1.85 and 2.35. Easier masking system to make as well.
I am curious as to why vertical masking is easier to do than horizontal?

Test_Engineer

02-04-06, 12:25 PM

To me it seems that the 16:9 "might" be too big. I'm sure you have done the renders and drawings, but I wonder if it is possible to just do a quick mock-up in your theater since you haver the chairs available for exact measurements to see if the image of the large height of the 16:9 is not cut out for the second row(can't see the bottom of the image when seated). It would be a shame to sacrifice second row viewing for larger 16:9.

On the other hand, is the very wide screen of the 2.35:1 just "too wide" for comfortable viewing. I know it is better to be immersed in the movie, but I hate it when I get stuck too close to the screen and have to "look around" to take in the entire image.

I think I like the idea of the largest 2.35:1 ratio screen and mask for 16:9! It would be so much easier to have 2 black curtains to pull out from the sides to form a mask for 16:9. Long horizontal masks for a 16:9 screen seems like it would be much more complex and difficult.

I guess in the end you have to ask yourself: "Are GREAT movies(or your primary content) produced more often in 2.35:1 or 16:9." I don't know the answer to that, as I have not done any research on that, but I'm sure you know the answer due to your profession! I think this question should drive your ultimate decision.

BTW, I totally agree on your philosophy of getting more work done late at night. My wife goes to bed at about 10:30, and I get so much done between 10:30 and 1AM! My mother-in-law always says it has something to do with what time of day you were born. If you were born in the morning you will be a "morning person".....for me, that theory works, I was born about 8PM, and I am definitely a 'night owl". :D

bmackrell

02-04-06, 01:55 PM

Sandman,

What are your plans for finshing around your projector mount?

billmac

artimp

02-04-06, 02:00 PM

you said something a few threads back about I think the DVD player and possibly the sony jukebox hooked up looking fairly close to the htpc as far as picture quality-- what components are you using? I can't do the HTPC right now so with what you tested what would you have suggested? Your work is TRULY AMAZING!

SVonhof

02-04-06, 02:24 PM

Mark P, please don't edit out the pics. It doesn't clutter up the thread, especially the ones with the paint/screen comparisons, that is unreal. I have talked to lots of people who just want to use a painted board or project onto the wall and if that is a true comparison, that will show everyone what a good screen will do for the image.

BTW, I have subscribed to your thread for your theater and await updates!

jmorris644

02-04-06, 02:53 PM

Now just One of my biggest confusions is with this new 2.35.1 screen size. I really loved the Size of the 16:9 I had before when watching HD and playing xBox 360. Now if I go with the narrowness of 2.35.1 my 16:9 is going to be much smaller.

So what does one do at that point? Go Wider to make up the Difference on the 16:9 height I like now? If I do that, I definitley need to do perforated.

If I do perforated, Da-Lite is out of the Question and the Next thing I would have to consider would be Screen Research's ClearPix2 which dulled the picture a bit.

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.

Thanks
Ruben

Ruben,

I cannot remember if I talked about this in this forum or another. If this is a repeat I apologize.

I had the opportunity to see the Pix2 screen with a width of 8' and a Sony Ruby doing the projecting. The installer that showed me the setup had also installed the black clearscreen material behind the Pix2 material.

At a distance of 5' or closer I could definately see the pattern in the material. However, at the normal distance for an 8' screen (16'), no matter how hard I tried I was unable to discern any pattern or problems with the Pix2 material. No hot spots, no moire(sp)

This was the setup that I had chosen prior to actually seeing it, based on reading only, and was lucky enought to actially experience the exact combination. But now, I believe I like my screens bigger. So I am now thinking of going with a bigger screen but need to do some testing to see if the Ruby will still thro enough light. If I go wider I will be putting my L&R mains behind the screen as well as the center channel.

Joe

Joe

jmorris644

02-04-06, 02:59 PM

So my question to all you guys. Do you think the slight dullness of the screen is going to be a bad choice? The only benefit I see of the duller picture is the screen door dissapears more from close up but the real fine detail dissapears too.

Thanks
Ruben

Ruben,

This is one question we cannot answer for you. Because of your trade I am guessing you are extremely more critical than most of us. Also, and I think you and I share this character flaw ;), if you know it is there, then it will bother you whether you can see it or not.

If YOU are not thoroughly convinced it is the right solution than I don't hink you should do it.

Joe

Mark P

02-04-06, 03:01 PM

if that is a true comparison, that will show everyone what a good screen will do for the image.In a way its not an absolutely fair comparison because the first image was before the anamorphic lens arrived and if you look hard you can see black bars ever so slightly on the wall, the other one if I recall correctly was taking up the entire 14' wide screen. This puts the advantage to the painted wall ( it was probably 11 ft. wide-ish, maybe 12' )

Same DVD player, same camera , same auto settings ( Im not smart enough to shoot anything but auto and have it work properly) My jaw dropped the first time I saw the image on the screen, even on old grainy movies like The Good,the Bad and the Ugly the close ups of Eli Wallach and bunch just blow you away.

If I were Ruben I would try very hard to find someone local to test the images on Fabric and a Stewart or other slightly higer priced screen before commiting.

We can barely see a difference between econo and normal bulb brightness but the PJ it self is quiet and cool in econo, its still quiet in normal but the heat intensifies quite a bit. My guess is econo mode is out for sure on a fabric screen, the samples we got were very dim when compared but they were awful small samples

radm1f

02-04-06, 03:04 PM

Does Anyone know about this?

SONY DVP-CX995V

It's a Sony 400 Disk DVD Jukebox with an HDMI Output.
Selectable 480p/720p/1080i output via HDMI digital interface

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-NxnNG0rhkgx/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=158CX995V

Sandman I don't know if you are still interested on info on this or not. I own one and am pretty happy with it. As mcascio mentioned it does not have a serial input. It has its own processor for DTS, Dolby Dig II., SACD. For SACDs its output is only through analog channels (6channels), it does have HDMI output but SACDs will not output through that nor the optical output. My biggest complaint about it is that it is not easy to have it so when you turn it on it goes to the menu of the disc list. It always trys to play whatever disc was playing last. Hope this helps.

The stage is absolutely beautiful!!

Mehran