Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins! [Text View] - Page 5

SmX

02-04-06, 04:30 PM

That would be decided with ease as soon as you figure out what it is that will be projected the most and/or If you want black bars when watching 2.35:1 robbing you of 33% of your resolution. If you watch alot of TV , hardly any movies go 16 x 9 , If your going to watch alot of movies and little TV then the choice is obvious.

Do you want HDTV big and movies considerably smaller with 33% loss on resolution

or

Do you want movies big and HDTV considerably smaller with no loss of resolution

If your not having the screen covered by curtains than 2.35:1 would be a must for the visual impact of walking into an actual theater, to me 16 x 9 just looks to close to a TV screen. Once we hung the screen we really tossed the idea of no curtains around for several days just because of the impact of the Stewart Screen when you walk into the room, it is the whitest white I have ever seen and with proper lighting it really drops your jaw when walking into the room.

take those pics you made where you masked off the screen sizes and fill them with white or crop a favorite movie and do it sort of like this

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/HT059.jpg

As far as using cloth as a screen, I would SERIOUSLY reconsider a gain screen, when we were waiting for the screen we went out and bought the whitest white paints we could find and heres the image

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/moulin3.jpg

We thought it was amazing and started to wonder if we wasted money, and heres after the screen

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/P9250504.jpg

I am just wondering what fabric , vinyl coated or not is going to give you the best picture possible and I just cant see it. Everything we saw was not worth moving the center speaker down right below the screen but again I have external crossovers and tweek the sound any way we choose.

Good luck , my vote is the biggest 2.35:1 you can go for and not see screendoor ( which is probably 1.25 screen width back, not familiar with your PJ so I dont know for sure) and the center speaker below, do audio testing right now and see if you can tell the difference using your fabric. put it behind, then move it below. We did all this before the PJ and screen ever showed up. In my opinion it would be a major shame to spend the time making such a beautiful room to shock and awe everyone that comes in and then turn the lights off and have the next 2 hours look half as good as it could.

Let me know when youve read this and I will edit out all my pics as to not clutter up your wonderful thread

Could you explain to me how I will be losing 33% resolution by not having a 2.35:1 Screen? This is fairly new to me.

As you know I have compared every perforated Screen material from Stewart, Da-Lite, VuTec, Screen Research & Dazian to my painted wall and the Color differences side by side were not that dramatic like your pictures. It looks llike the white balance in your camera was set differently at the times you took those pictures. I can take pictures and hit the white balance button by mistake and get the same differences. So you may want to look into that. I do it all the time on my camera.

The material I am experimenting with is Vinyl Micro weave material (that's not the material hanging in the pictures I took). I found the same exact weaves VuTec is using on their weaved screens. I even found the same weave Screen Research is using for ClearPix 2, but I need to find out on Monday if it comes in white and grey like all the other weaves I found did.

Upon further comparison's with the Stewart MicroTek Perf, the perfs add an overall graininess to the image. Whereas the weave material seems to maintain the clearity and have better accoustic values than the Stewart microperf.

The open weave and micro weave vinyl material I'm getting runs $12 a yard and comes in 62" and 72" widths and any lenght. Imagine finding a Material that proves just as good if not better than Vutec and Screen Research for $12 a yard? I will be able to do my Screen for under $100.00 and be able to help all the DIY's out at thge same time. :)

As far as curtains, that was my intentional plans. But after seeing the real cool 2.35:1 rooms on AVS I think I may use my $550 curtain track for Masking now :D

Also please leave your pictures in my thread.

Ruben

SmX

02-04-06, 04:40 PM

Sandman,

What are your plans for finshing around your projector mount?

billmac

I made a hush Box. Its just not on in the picture I took.

Ruben

SmX

02-04-06, 04:43 PM

you said something a few threads back about I think the DVD player and possibly the sony jukebox hooked up looking fairly close to the htpc as far as picture quality-- what components are you using? I can't do the HTPC right now so with what you tested what would you have suggested? Your work is TRULY AMAZING!

Components? I am using an Optoma H-79 projector hooked up to the DVD Jukebox via heavy duty Component cables from avcable.com The HTPC is hooked up via DVI.

Ruben

SmX

02-04-06, 04:47 PM

Ruben,

I cannot remember if I talked about this in this forum or another. If this is a repeat I apologize.

I had the opportunity to see the Pix2 screen with a width of 8' and a Sony Ruby doing the projecting. The installer that showed me the setup had also installed the black clearscreen material behind the Pix2 material.

At a distance of 5' or closer I could definately see the pattern in the material. However, at the normal distance for an 8' screen (16'), no matter how hard I tried I was unable to discern any pattern or problems with the Pix2 material. No hot spots, no moire(sp)

This was the setup that I had chosen prior to actually seeing it, based on reading only, and was lucky enought to actially experience the exact combination. But now, I believe I like my screens bigger. So I am now thinking of going with a bigger screen but need to do some testing to see if the Ruby will still thro enough light. If I go wider I will be putting my L&R mains behind the screen as well as the center channel.

Joe

Joe

With the Weaves I'm experimenting with, you do not see the pattern from 3 feet away unless you are looking really hard.

Ruben

SVonhof

02-04-06, 05:05 PM

I figured everyone here would be offline this weekend for the SuperBowl. I personally don't like FootBall, I rather watch Poker :)

Ruben

I normally watch it more for the commercials and movie trailers in HD. This year, my bro-in-law is going to get the front seat, since he is and always has been a Steelers fan. That makes it a little more exciting.

I would like to understand better how the anamorphic lens stretches the 16:9 without people looking too fat, or do they? Can someone explain in more detail how they benefit a constant height?
Ruben

My understanding of these is that it stretches the image, but you have it compressed to start with, so you end up with a correctly displayed image. For example, when they were showing these being used on 4:3 projectors at CES a few years ago, they had the image normal width, but had the image stretched vertically using the settings in the projector or DVD player to fill the 4:3 image. When they put the lens in front of the image, it compressed the image to 16:9 ratio(this was how they had it set up) which brought the image back to normal looking. By doing this, you don't loose any brightness of the image, since you are always using all the pixels in the display device (say 1024x768 4:3 image with no lens and a compressed 1024x768 image when the lens was in front of it).

Also, from what I remember, the lens has oil between the lenses, which probably helps bring the cost up...

SmX

02-04-06, 05:32 PM

I normally watch it more for the commercials and movie trailers in HD. This year, my bro-in-law is going to get the front seat, since he is and always has been a Steelers fan. That makes it a little more exciting.

My understanding of these is that it stretches the image, but you have it compressed to start with, so you end up with a correctly displayed image. For example, when they were showing these being used on 4:3 projectors at CES a few years ago, they had the image normal width, but had the image stretched vertically using the settings in the projector or DVD player to fill the 4:3 image. When they put the lens in front of the image, it compressed the image to 16:9 ratio(this was how they had it set up) which brought the image back to normal looking. By doing this, you don't loose any brightness of the image, since you are always using all the pixels in the display device (say 1024x768 4:3 image with no lens and a compressed 1024x768 image when the lens was in front of it).

Also, from what I remember, the lens has oil between the lenses, which probably helps bring the cost up...

Thanks Scott for the explaination. Yeah I was reading here someone had a leaky lens :D

Ruben

ebr

02-04-06, 05:59 PM

Sandman - when you watch a 2.35:1 movie on a 16x9 screen your projector projects black bars on the top and bottom to make it a 2.35:1 image (so its only using about 66% of the pixels on your display device for the actual image).

When you use a constant height setup for 2.35:1 you have a processor in between (you are using an htpc so it can do this) that takes the image from the DVD and stretches it vertically so that, if you just sent that straight to your projector, you would have the whole movie filling the 16x9 screen but people would be tall and thin.

Now, stick an anamorphic lens in front of the projector and it stretches the image back to the 2.35:1 ratio. The net of all this is now you are using all the pixels in your projector for the 2.35:1 picture - full resolution.

This is actually how real movie theaters project a widescreen image from 35mm film. Ever notice how the little circles that warn the projectionist (in the old style theaters) that a reel change is coming up are actually ovals, not circles... This is due to this stretching by the lens.

SmX

02-04-06, 06:06 PM

Mark P

02-04-06, 06:52 PM

Top/bottom is easier to do because you have gravity to help. With your 16:9 native projector, the anamorphic isn't worth it, you will spend more time messing around with scaling and resizing than you will enjoying it. BTW 98% of the digital cinema installations will not be using an anamorphic lens.

Hes using TheaterTek, it will take him all of about 10 minutes ( if he does it blind folded) to achieve scaling and a about 3 minutes to focus the anamorphic if hes as anal about it as I was when I did it my first time.

I can start from scratch and scale in in less than 1 minute now that I have fudged around with projecter locations about 3 different times.

The anamorphic takes the 33% resolution you lose in the black bars and uses them in the actual picture using a native 1.78:1 native PJ.

Mark P

02-04-06, 07:23 PM

As you know I have compared every perforated Screen material from Stewart, Da-Lite, VuTec, Screen Research & Dazian to my painted wall and the Color differences side by side were not that dramatic like your pictures. It looks llike the white balance in your camera was set differently at the times you took those pictures. I can take pictures and hit the white balance button by mistake and get the same differences. So you may want to look into that. I do it all the time on my camera.
Ruben I know youre not seeing much of a difference between your painted wall and the fabrics and this is what I was trying to point out, get a sample of Stewart Studiotek 130 ( no microperf) and add that to the mix and see what happens to the colors and contrast.

I was seeing very little difference between Painted and Fabrics, the problem is that if sound can pass through so does light, even light of different colors. Hold up your samples and turn the PJ on and look at how the picture passes right through the fabric onto the wall behind, this is why you will also need blackout cloth .

All that color and light should be on your screen.

I cant hit the white balance button without being a contoursionist. this is the difference between paint and a Stewart Studiotek 130.

I cant believe the folks who have tried the audio screens and the gain screens are not chiming in here, come on guys chime in on what you found in the dimness and color differences. Art Sonneborn where are you?

ebr

02-04-06, 08:08 PM

Just as a point of note - using an acoustically transparent screen gives you more than just the ability to place the center channel behind it. It also eliminates a huge sound reflector at the front of your room and, thus, opens up more area for proper acoustical treatment.

There are tradeoffs, for sure, but I just wanted to point that part of the equation out.

SmX

02-04-06, 09:45 PM

I know youre not seeing much of a difference between your painted wall and the fabrics and this is what I was trying to point out, get a sample of Stewart Studiotek 130 ( no microperf) and add that to the mix and see what happens to the colors and contrast.

I was seeing very little difference between Painted and Fabrics, the problem is that if sound can pass through so does light, even light of different colors. Hold up your samples and turn the PJ on and look at how the picture passes right through the fabric onto the wall behind, this is why you will also need blackout cloth .

All that color and light should be on your screen.

I cant hit the white balance button without being a contortionist. this is the difference between paint and a Stewart Studiotek 130.

I cant believe the folks who have tried the audio screens and the gain screens are not chiming in here, come on guys chime in on what you found in the dimness and color differences. Art Sonneborn where are you?

Thanks Mark,

I have the whole Stewart Line up of Samples. I got a bg kit from Stewart. I posted screen Shots of all the Samples side by Side including the wall and a white piece of paper about 150 pages back in this thread :D

I sat down with multiple friends for countless hours with about 20+ Different Screen Samples (perforated and Non) and the Difference we seen between the Perf and non perf is the loss of brightness due to the Perfs along with Moire in my case.

For the higher gain screens we saw a more glowing brighter screen (which I did not care for). For the Grey Screens we saw Higher contrast/darker blacks. The Solid Screens were pretty equivelent to the white paper and painted wall. The Microperf 130 was pretty close to the Studiotek 130 except a loss of brightness and a grainier looking image. But as far as the 2 pictures you posted, nothing has been that different. Maybe that paint you used was real funky? My painted walls are a Bone white Flat paint.

The reason I took all the Pictures of screen shots was because I thought no one would believe me that the wall was pretty damn good considering.

Here is the Post I did of the Screen shots with Stewarts StudioTek 130 and various others including Da-Lite and white paper and the Wall. If You see a dramatic difference (besides gains) like what you posted, Please point it out to me and I will go to the Doctors first thing Monday Morning and get my eyes checked :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6855895&&#post6855895

ChiTown_Jerry

02-05-06, 09:49 AM

Ruben,

I ran across some screen size calculators you may or may not know about..

http://www.prismasonic.com/english/srceen_size.shtml#2

http://www.carltonbale.com/ht/calculator/index.html

Screen size:
Personally, I like 16:9 because if you use all the height you have and do a 2.35:1 you would have to be way back from the screen to see it all.. just my preference.. maybe you have that distance and that's your plan..

Do you really need masking for showing 2.35:1 on a 16:9 screen? It seems your blacks are very black on the wall projections you showed..

I'm still not clear why you need to have your speakers behind the screen. Have you played with centers mounted above and angled at all?

thanks.. great project!

Jerry

tonygates2

02-05-06, 10:42 AM

Ruben,

Beautiful job on the theater. It will be an inspiration when finished.

As far as the screen material goes, you have to consider that your projector will need to be recalibrated based on which screen you are using.

Your projector will look dull on a woven screen which has a .8 gain until you calibrate your white balance to the D65 standard to that particular screen. You will also need to calibrate the picture, tint, contrast and brightness for each screen material since each one is slightly different.

The reason why the other material looks better is that it more closely matches your projectors current settings.

Tony

CaspianM

02-05-06, 11:10 AM

tonygates2

02-05-06, 11:38 AM

True you will get different outcomes with different screen materials with a projector that is calibrated to D65. What you want is a D65 calibration of the projector off the screen material, not from the projector itself. Front projector calibrations will use the screen and projector as a unit, since the image we see is from the screen itself.

So if we take the image off the screen and calibrate it to D65, which is what our eyes are seeing, then look at the projector light itself, it will more than likely not be D65 which is fine since we want the correct standard based off the screen.

Tony

Mark P

02-05-06, 12:06 PM

I believe you will get a different outcome from different screen materials once your PJ is calibrated to D65 with proper contrast and brightness setting. Would it make sense that Stewart StudioTek 130 which is the industrial standard would be as good as (or as poor as) a painted wall!? Plus there are subtle differences that won't come to play until use the material for a longer term. It is not always what you see at once. Sounds funny but I had screens that thought was as good as screen A but after weeks of using it I saw more things that I did not like about it. What ever you buy make sure is returnable for 30 days if possible.

Not to mention source material being projected and sample sizes. It would be nice if the companys would send out samples large enough to get an acurate representation ( atleast a sq. yard)

Testing with saturated cgi as compared to natural skin tones which the human eye can recognize as natural or not almost imeadiately might show different results .

Pop in "the Incredibles" and project it on a bedsheet and it will probably look great. One nice thing about Moulin Rouge is that its not a very good transfer in my opinion and will show up terrible on a not so good screen, it also has the over saturated colors surrounding a neutral, normal face in many scenes. I have some sheets of sheetrock laying about , I am going to paint one with flat white and stick it smack it the middle of the screen splitting a face in half and see the results after the Superbowl crowd leaves.

As far as calibration to the screen, I took the Mercury HD to a Home Theater meet in the area and the calibrator who sort of hosted the meet stuck some doohicky up in front of the lens on a stand and was messing around on a laptop as a demontration to the participants of the meet about all the different aspects of calibration but never mentioned anything about the screen which I think was a Da-lite, he just said the projector was not needing any adjustments .

Are you guys saying you can calibrate a PJ to look the same on a painted wall as a StudioTek, or are you saying the settings could be off enough to make a Studiotek look as bad as a painted wall.

I think this thread may cover the entire gamut of HT before its done.

jmorris644

02-05-06, 12:34 PM

Hey jmorris you got the 1000th post in my thread. That's not fair :) I thought I would get the 1000th post but all this activity happened while we were hooking up the Grafik Eye.

I figured everyone here would be offline this weekend for the SuperBowl. I personally don't like FootBall, I rather watch Poker :)

Ruben

Sorry Man, :D

Now I am gonna have to try and get the 2000th post too!!! :eek:

I would rather watch poker too. I play online quite often too. :)

Don't I get a prize or something for having the 1000th post? Maybe a get-in-free ticket if I am ever in Boca? ;)

Joe

tonygates2

02-05-06, 12:38 PM

If the calibrator was certified thru the ISF then he needs to be reported. To answer your question, yes we first take a color analyzer and place it in front of the projector to get a reading. Then we take a measurement from 12” away from the screen and take that measurement. That will give us the offset in our software to let us know how to proceed with the D65 calibration off the screen.

And yes if the projector is calibrated a certain way and is projected on a Stewart screen or any screen for that matter that throws the calibration way off it will look pretty bad.

The other thing to consider is the ambiance of light in a room. If for instance you bring your projector and screen to me and I calibrate the image off that screen to be D65 and it looks beautiful, then you take it home and your room has more windows or the walls are painted a totally different color, then the image will suddenly look pretty bad. That is why we have to calibrate onsite.

So from what I was saying is that to take ruben's projector and the woven screen and then calibrate the image from that screen to be D65, you will be amazed on how vivid the image become.

Tony

jmorris644

02-05-06, 12:39 PM

With the Weaves I'm experimenting with, you do not see the pattern from 3 feet away unless you are looking really hard.

Ruben

How are you measuring the acoustic transparency of these weaves?

jmorris644

02-05-06, 12:43 PM

Hes using TheaterTek, it will take him all of about 10 minutes ( if he does it blind folded) to achieve scaling and a about 3 minutes to focus the anamorphic if hes as anal about it as I was when I did it my first time.

I can start from scratch and scale in in less than 1 minute now that I have fudged around with projecter locations about 3 different times.

The anamorphic takes the 33% resolution you lose in the black bars and uses them in the actual picture using a native 1.78:1 native PJ.

But is all of this to use all of the pixels in the projector so that you don't lose brightness? You don't see any more picture like 4x3 vs 16x9 do you?

Joe

jmorris644

02-05-06, 12:54 PM

And yes if the projector is calibrated a certain way and is projected on a Stewart screen or any screen for that matter that throws the calibration way off it will look pretty bad.
Tony

So does the reverse host true? Will Ruben be able to use his $12/yd fabric and calibrate his projector to make it look good (D65)?

Joe

tonygates2

02-05-06, 02:12 PM

So does the reverse host true? Will Ruben be able to use his $12/yd fabric and calibrate his projector to make it look good (D65)?

Joe

That depends. There are two important parameters that a screen needs in any high quality projected video display. 1) The screen should be relatively low in gain 2) Have a flat spectral response

Stewart Filmscreen, Da-Lite, Screen Research & others produce a low gain, flat spectral response screens that came about from high-end home theater requirements. As an example, the Studio Tek 130 has a gain of about 1.3, so as you walk around the images displayed on the screen, you will notice that the color quality doesn’t appear to change

So if the $12/yd fabric has a flat spectral response and is relatively low in gain and is acoustically transparent, then yes you can calibrate the projector to look good on that material.

Tony

SmX

02-05-06, 09:53 PM

I just read through a 12 Page thread Called "The official Vutec screen thread" in the Screens section. It seems like a couple other guys game across the same PVC weaved material I came across. They were about to spill the beans and then they dissapeared from the thread.

Check out these Posts..
This is the same weave VuTec uses...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6055568&&#post6055568

Here is a similar pattern to Screen Research C;learpix 2, not the same, but similar...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6056752&&#post6056752

Ruben

ebr

02-05-06, 10:45 PM

...They were about to spill the beans and then they dissapeared from the thread...

ooohh. I bet they're buried right next to Jimmy Hoffa... ;)

SmX

02-05-06, 10:48 PM

Yeah, I just learned his post got deleted and someone told me this talk is Taboo around here. So I better stop talking about it.

Ruben

mbkintner

02-05-06, 11:13 PM

So I better stop talking about it.

I hope that was a joke. I know there are lots of people interested in your results so keep talking. You might as well keep it public on the boards cause you'll be flooded with PM if you don't. Well, "flooded" might be an exaggeration but I know you'll get at least one. ;)

ChiTown_Jerry

02-05-06, 11:44 PM

Do you want HDTV big and movies considerably smaller with 33% loss on resolution

Mark,
This has been bothering me since I first read it.. and it just doesn't make sense to me.

Surely this was true when CRT projectors were the only game in town. You needed a lens to stretch the picture to take advantage of every pixel on a DVD. They squeezed a wide screen image onto a DVD and an anamorphic lens would let you use the entire 540 lines of resolution on the DVD, but stretched back out to it's original format.

But how do you figure this with a digitial projector with a much higher resolution? With digital you are scaling UP. You have many more pixels than are on the DVD original! You are losing absolutely no resolution at all as far as I can tell.

Maybe I'm missing something.. if so, please enlighten me! If you are only referring to size of picture, wouldn't simple zooming take care of that? But that's not resolution.

Thanks!

Jerry

BFauska

02-06-06, 12:42 AM

As far as the 33% loss of resolution goes... Any given projector can only produce X number of pixels, and when you project an image with black bars on the top and bottom (anything wider than 16:9) there are pixels being wasted on the black bars. If you first distort the image tol use all of the pixels of the projector (without the lens this would look too tall and stretched) and then send it through a lens that makes it the right shape again you don't waste the pixels at the top and bottom where the bars would be. On a 2.35:1 film this wasted number of pixels is about 33%.

The 2.35:1 FAQ in the constant height area of this forum is an excelent resource.

Ruben, If you have cataloged your dvds in something like DVD Profiler you could sort and view a list of them by aspect ratio, this may help you decide which shape to make your screen. I know that of my little collection of 160 dvds I have 71 that are 16:9, 71 that are wider than 16:9 and 17 that are narrower than 16:9. Weird numbers now that I look at them but it seems like something that would be worth looking into with a collection like yours. It may not be as simple as majority rules, but if you are on the fence it may help make the decision.

On a side note (and fairly inconsequential since I will most likely never see a movie in your theater) I vote for 2.35:1. I think that it better captures the cinema experience and most of the movies I consider visually stunning are 2.35.

just my long winded 2 cents.

Looking fantastic, keep up the great work.
Brian

SmX

02-06-06, 01:05 AM

....

SmX

02-06-06, 01:45 AM

SmX

02-06-06, 03:12 AM

Well I finally Made my Mind up on the Screen Aspect Ratio. I'm going to do a Constant Height 2.35:1. There is nothing cooler in the world than having a true wide screen in your theater.

Like it was said above, a 16:9 resembles todays HD TVs and I'm not looking to have a 122" wide HD movie screen in my Theater. So That's my Final Answer.

Now my only worry is how to set up my HTPC so that when I turn it on I can see my Native 16:9 desktop without the top and bottom bleeding off the Screen.

So Now I can get this Screen wall completed.

Ruben

ScottJ0007

02-06-06, 08:09 AM

Now my only worry is how to set up my HTPC so that when I turn it on I can see my Native 16:9 desktop without the top and bottom bleeding off the Screen. Maybe I don't understand what a constant height 2.35:1 screen is, but I thought the whole idea of constant height was that everything would fit on your screen height. In native mode, isn't the projector set to display the image to fit the screen from top to bottom and then have black bars on the sides? Then I though when you wanted wide screen (2.35:1), you still displayed the image from the projector in native mode. This would normally show an image that is squished from side to side, giving you the appearance of thin characters in the image. To correct this, I thought you used an anamorphic lens to stretch the image from side to side to fit on your full screen.

Ignore me if I don't know what I'm talking about here. I'm still confused with constant height 2.35:1 :confused:

TheSpoon

02-06-06, 08:28 AM

Hi Brian,

Thanks! I have 868 Widescreen Movies According to filters in DVD Profiler. I cannot figure how to filter the aspect ratio, I only see filters for Full Frame, Pan Scan, Widescreen and 16:9 Enhanced. No filters for 1:85 or 2.35:1. So when I select "Widescreen" Enhanced 16:9 it says I have 868.

I mostly bought widescreen movies on DVD if they were available I do have about 100 or so Full Screen movies. So How do I filter the Aspect in DVD Profiler?

Ruben

To find your aspect ratio in DVD Profiler...
Goto the menu bar and find charts and graphs(2nd to last button) and then Select "Statistics" on new window that opens and then Video -> Ratios.

Love the thread.

Nelson

ebr

02-06-06, 09:02 AM

You're not confused, Scott. He'll have no problem with his desktop. He can either remove the lens (or use one that has a "passthru" mode) or let his desktop be stretched but no bleeding outside the screen area will occur.

I wish I could do 2.35:1 but money and width constraints in my room preclude it :(.

68sting

02-06-06, 10:49 AM

What ratio are the new HD movies going to be in? I would make that my priority.

Mark P

02-06-06, 03:49 PM

We have the desktop of XP and Media Center taking up the entire 2.25:1 screen. nothing looks stretched or abnormal infact alot of people comment on how cool it looks to have a widescreen windows

SmX

02-06-06, 06:33 PM

To find your aspect ratio in DVD Profiler...
Goto the menu bar and find charts and graphs(2nd to last button) and then Select "Statistics" on new window that opens and then Video -> Ratios.

Love the thread.

Nelson

Thanks Nelson!!!

So on that note, I have...

432 - 1.85 Aspect Ratio DVDs
375 - 2.35 Aspect Ratio DVDs
75 - 1.33 Aspect Ratio DVDs
46 - 2.40 Aspect Ratio DVDs
15 - 1.76 Aspect Ratio DVDs

and it goes down from there

Ruben

Big Worms

02-06-06, 06:46 PM

SmX

02-06-06, 06:57 PM

Update:

Well guys, today I dedicated my day to find my screen material. Since I own a film company, I was able to open an account at a nearby supplier of Materials.

What I'm about to tell you will probably shock you (or maybe not)

I spent the day putting paperwork together to get an account at this supplier. So once the account got set up, I drove 65 miles to them to check out samples. This place has a billion different PVC/Vinyl weaves. They had a box of sample cards and books ready for me when I got there. I spent about a half hour going through the sample cards looking at the different weaves. Trying to find the perfect match to the VuTec Material. I found about 6 different candidates.

So as I was looking and comparing the samples with the VuTec samples , one of the managers came out and saw the VuTec material I was comparing and said right off the back, "Oh are you looking for that material too?" and I was like "Yeah?!?" So he runs off to the warehouse and comes out with the same exact identicle material as the VuTecs. It even comes in the same 3 openess weave patterns they offer. It also comes in 90" widths by 30 Yard rolls.

So it looks like I found the resource. I also brought home a bunch of other cool weaves to sample. So I will be experimenting tonight.

SmX

02-06-06, 07:08 PM

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/moulin3.jpg

We thought it was amazing and started to wonder if we wasted money, and heres after the screen

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/P9250504.jpg

Is this from Moulin Rouge?

Mark P

02-06-06, 07:46 PM

Is this from Moulin Rouge?

Yes, the " poetry reading" scene

ebr

02-06-06, 09:07 PM

Your room width is almost as big as Sandman's so if he can fit you can. How much more width would you want?

Most of my room is 14' 6". However, there is a "bump" in the front (where the screen will be) that makes the screen area only 8' 6". A 2.35:1 screen in that space would be too small for 1.85/16x9 material.

On the windows desktop stretch thing - if you define your desktop properly, no, it won't stretch. I'm typing this on a computer with three monitors attached as a single desktop - total resolution 4160 x 1024.

SmX

02-06-06, 09:08 PM

Yes, the " poetry reading" scene

Hey Mark,

What Lens are you using for your 2.35:1? Also, someone above mentioned something about a anamorphic passive lens? Do you know if I will need that?

Ruben

sharerware

02-06-06, 09:32 PM

So it looks like I found the resource. I also brought home a bunch of other cool weaves to sample. So I will be experimenting tonight.
I'm eagerly awaiting your results. :D

theirishgonzo

02-06-06, 11:07 PM

what dues it cost to get a d65 calabraton? and can it be done by a enduser?

SmX

02-07-06, 01:12 AM

....

SmX

02-07-06, 01:33 AM

what dues it cost to get a d65 calabraton? and can it be done by a enduser?

I think an Avia Dvd will take care of calibrating the Picture. I have all of the calibration DVDs.

Ruben

tonygates2

02-07-06, 02:13 AM

I think an Avia Dvd will take care of calibrating the Picture. I have all of the calibration DVDs.

Ruben

Ruben,

awesome job on the screen comparisons.

The avia disk is a great disk to do the basic calibrations. I also believe that the new mce has a built in calibration wizard, that is easier to use than the avia disk. It was a joint venture between Microsoft and Joel silver, president of ISF.

But unless you have a color analyzer and software you will not be able to do more advanced calibrations like white balance for instance.

Tony

SmX

02-07-06, 02:50 AM

Updates:

Man I really have to Give it up to Chirpie (Ryan). The guy is So good at 3-D renders he makes me want to Slap my Momma :D If anyone here is thinking about doing a room, you got to let Chirpie render your Ideas out first. This guy has unrealistic talents!

Awesome Work Chirpie!!!!

Here are some new revised 3-D renders of our theater provided by Chirpie...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-room-renders/4.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-room-renders/1.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-room-renders/5.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-room-renders/3.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-room-renders/6.jpg

tonygates2

02-07-06, 03:21 AM

Ruben,

I would be interested to see what the gain is of the screen samples. If you have a spot light meter (I'm sure if you don't you will make one) than you can get a rough estimate using the follow steps.

1) put a flat field or window pattern up on the screen. Avia disk should have a 100ire window
2) sit in the best viewing position, the focal point with the light meter
3) Aim the meter at the center of the screen and take the measurement
4) Now take a flat matte white paper large enough to cover the area the light meter will read (typing paper) and hang it into place temporarily
5) Take a reading of the reflected light from the paper
6) the ratio between the two is the rough level of the screen

Tony

SmX

02-07-06, 03:43 AM

CollinViegas

02-07-06, 03:49 AM

Hi Sandman, I must say amazing work and thanks for all of the construction pictures.

I hope you dont mind, but I am "stealing" about 75% of your ideas because your theater design is alot better than what I came up with.{lol} I will be going Charcoal grey were you have red and I am not sure about the ceiling yet, but other than that I would have to say your hometheater is the nicest I have seen.

Once again, Excellent Job.

SmX

02-07-06, 04:12 AM

HeyNow^

02-07-06, 09:00 AM

Ruben,

Is this fabric only available through wholesale outlets? I would love to get my hands on some of it so I can push my viewing screen out and place my speakers behind the screen. I don't want to break any forum rules, but any ballpark pricing/fabric names that can be talked about?

Is this fabric readily available in most geographical areas?

Thanks,
Randy.

jmorris644

02-07-06, 09:18 AM

I think an Avia Dvd will take care of calibrating the Picture. I have all of the calibration DVDs.

Ruben

Never heard of it, looked it up, bought it!!

Thanks

jmorris644

02-07-06, 09:24 AM

I think I will most likely go with a 5% Openness weave due to it not obstructing sound at all.

"But how do you know this?" (sounding like Checkov in StarTrek II)

Seriously, I could not find any acoustic measurements information on VuTec's web page. I have seen the analysis for the Pix1/2 material. Do you have a link to any acoustic measurements with these materials?

Thanks

Joe

jmorris644

02-07-06, 09:26 AM

Tony,

They had the same gain as the VuTec .85

Ruben

Hmmm, both the same? There is no impact based on the brightness of the material? I would have thought that the ultra-bright would have had a higher gain.

Joe

larryep

02-07-06, 09:34 AM

man, Chirpie did a great job on those renders. at first I thought you were finished with the theater. :)

MaximAvs

02-07-06, 09:34 AM

Ruben..

I like the Bright White material! The "weave" seams flatter than the other Ultra Bright White sample.

Just my $0.02.

Sean

darkman2003

02-07-06, 10:37 AM

Wow!!!

Mark P

02-07-06, 11:03 AM

Hey Mark,

What Lens are you using for your 2.35:1? Also, someone above mentioned something about a anamorphic passive lens? Do you know if I will need that?

Ruben
Ruben ,
We are using an Isco 3, we didnt even research the differences here and went straight for the Grand Poobah of Ka-Chingyness after talking to several 2.35:1 people with larger screens and longer throws. We leave it in place and you can not tell the lens is even there in the detail, brightness, contrast department. We get a slight pincushion throwing almost 30' on a 14' wide screen.

Once you decide which one your after you may want to wait on finalizing you DIY screen frame and make a slight curve but we found a 1" pincushion on our scale was so little we just bury it into the black velvet

This puppy is a beast, you would certainly have to re-do your hush box ( you probably will with any)

I would link to some threads about the anamorphic lenses but I am pretty busy today, if you search Mark J. Foster or Isco 3 either will give you some details on this particular lens. I think the Prismatic or Prismonic or something like that is the most popular here. I was told there was a big difference between the Isco 2 and 3 and the Isco 2 can be bought used for considerably cheaper but I cant remember why I was steered away from it .

@ over 4K and a long wait to get the lens made and shipped from Germany it may not be the best option, as your finding with screens, you may be able to do better with research

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/PA170662.jpghttp://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/PA170663.jpg

Mark P

02-07-06, 11:12 AM

PS,
Love the 2.35:1 renders, if you are primarily watching this aspect ratio you will love this setup, we just force everything 1.78:1 into 1.85:1 and have 2 settings. A video Guru may notice but we dont.

I hope I didnt add to much of a headache by suggesting this 2.35:1 ordeal, I am sure someone would have so you can blame them for the extended cost and tweaking you will experience

SmX

02-07-06, 06:01 PM

....

SVonhof

02-07-06, 07:45 PM

jmorris644

02-07-06, 07:54 PM

Wow, so far, this seems to be a very conclusive test you are doing. It's almost like the Vutec screen has an auto-blurr setting or something. As soon as it's in front of the image, it seems as if you have purposly blurred it (I know you wouldn't do that).

I agree. It is really odd that the Vutec is so blurred. It is almost as if Ruben's camera is unable to focus on it.

Joe

SmX

02-07-06, 07:54 PM

Wow, so far, this seems to be a very conclusive test you are doing. It's almost like the Vutec screen has an auto-blurr setting or something. As soon as it's in front of the image, it seems as if you have purposly blurred it (I know you wouldn't do that).

Hey, Don't bother me now. I'm trying to figure out a cool name for my new screen company :D ...Now let's See.

SmX

02-07-06, 08:01 PM

I agree. It is really odd that the Vutec is so blurred. It is almost as if Ruben's camera is unable to focus on it.

Joe

I guess our eyes can't focus On it either. But then, why would they make a screen your eyes can't focus on? Oh, I get it... They made this screen so you can't bootleg a movie in the theaters. Nice. I should of known :D

But on a serious Note, it's worst in person. Now if you have the whole screen done in the VuTec, you prob wouldn't realize how blurry it is. The only reason you See it now, is because you are seeing it Side by side with a Better performing material. These are pretty much the Same results I get with Clearpix2 as well. Maybe its my Projector?

If you think this is bad, you need to see the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth. I would of done some comparisons, but I ran out of toilet paper a few days ago :/

Ruben

documentarymaker

02-07-06, 08:21 PM

Ruben,
Are you saying that the Dazian is crap or the opposite...

I was leaning towards their product until your recent posts. I'm dying to know what "mystery sample #3 " is...

Kevin -

SmX

02-07-06, 08:23 PM

Ruben,
Are you saying that the Dazian is crap or the opposite...

I was leaning towards their product until your recent posts. I'm dying to know what "mystery sample #3 " is...

Kevin -

"If you think this is bad, you need to see the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth. I would of done some comparisons, but I ran out of toilet paper a few days ago :/"

I think my last words in the post above answered that question rather well. :D

documentarymaker

02-07-06, 08:27 PM

Ok then...I thought I read that right :rolleyes:

Does your assesment (sp?) also apply to their uncoated Celtic cloth?

All joking aside you are probably going to have to set up a distributership for this material your talking about...Your going to have everybody clamoring for it...

Kevin -

jmorris644

02-07-06, 09:15 PM

If you think this is bad, you need to see the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth. I would of done some comparisons, but I ran out of toilet paper a few days ago :/

Ruben

ROFL

SVonhof

02-07-06, 09:16 PM

I agree. It is really odd that the Vutec is so blurred. It is almost as if Ruben's camera is unable to focus on it.

Joe

I was actually thinking the same thing, but don't know why the camera wouldn't be able to focus on it, since it was so sharp on the rest of the picture. The only thing I can think of is that it looks in some of the pictures as if the Vutec is sitting in front of the other material and that is screwing it up. But then you have the arrow on both materials, nothing else around it, and that makes you scratch your head and go: "Huh?"

jmorris644

02-07-06, 09:21 PM

But on a serious Note, it's worst in person. Now if you have the whole screen done in the VuTec, you prob wouldn't realize how blurry it is. The only reason you See it now, is because you are seeing it Side by side with a Better performing material. These are pretty much the Same results I get with Clearpix2 as well. Maybe its my Projector?

Ruben

Ok, no offense meant, but thinking about it, it just doesn't make sense to me that it is impossible to focus on the material. Or ANY material for that matter.

I did notice that all of your pictures have the Vutec in Front of the mystery material.

But, you being the video expert, have you ever expeienced an inability to focus on a material? I am very perplexed. :confused:

Joe

jmorris644

02-07-06, 09:23 PM

I was actually thinking the same thing, but don't know why the camera wouldn't be able to focus on it, since it was so sharp on the rest of the picture. The only thing I can think of is that it looks in some of the pictures as if the Vutec is sitting in front of the other material and that is screwing it up. But then you have the arrow on both materials, nothing else around it, and that makes you scratch your head and go: "Huh?"

heh, I was typing while you were posting. Can we both be soooo wrong? :D

SmX

02-07-06, 09:37 PM

.....

Test_Engineer

02-07-06, 10:07 PM

OK, I got a better Idea. I will put the Vutec Sample (which is 8" x 10") right smack in the middle of the Sample #3 material. This way you can see all 4 sides of the Sample material verses the Vutec. I will shoot the Picture Straight on (as much as light will let me). I will do this after my late dinner here. So check back In a Hour from this post.

If that isn't good enough, you'll need to buy a plane ticket :D

Ruben
I think they are trying to say that the 1mm thickness of the Vutec material being on TOP of the other material is causing it to be out of focus????? :rolleyes: I highly doubt 1 mm(or however thick the material is) is going to change the focal point that drastically!

I guess the question to ask is..did you try to refocus the PJ on the Vutec material? Being A video guy...I'm sure you did. I'm not an expert, maybe there is some strange property of the Vutec material theat would change the focal point(hard to believe, but I think that might be what others think).

Either way, you have more expertise in this area than me, so I'll say Good Find! Now get cracking on that business model. :D

GPowers

02-07-06, 10:10 PM

These fabrics look a lot like the sunscreen shades we just purchased for our office. You can purchase them in just about any color and from 0% to 50% weaves. The different weaves allow varying degrees of blocking the sun vs. being able to see through the shade. We purchased a 15% weave in black.

The shades are used a lot in hotter climates, like Arizona, California and Florida.

One of the trade name is "SheerWeave".

CaspianM

02-07-06, 10:18 PM

Actually 1 mm variation in the plane field depth can cause out of focus particularly in foreground. He should take a picture of both side by side rather than one on top of the other.
A better way would be take a pic from 3' rather than close up so he has a deeper depth of field to work with. The VUTEC is out of focus so all its perms.

Mark P

02-07-06, 10:28 PM

Is there a chance you can throw a sample of non perf/weave material up into the mix and maybe the Clearpix sample.
How far from your screen will you be sitting? Not to be a party pooper but the material that looks more in focus and/or brighter also looks like it really adds to screendoor if not making 2 or 3 different screen doors with its 10%, it also looks like it shades the individual pixels giving each pixel not 1 color but 2-4. Its almost like its adding EE to the picture.

I know these are Macro Close Up pictures, but I am sitting 30' away and the softer image looks more appealing , the other looks really harsh. Does the Sample look good from you seating area? Most of what I am saying comes from the cursor shot, the soft image has defined natural grays inside the cursor and good looking transition right outside the cursor with the light tan pixels, the other in focus one has Magenta and purple and blue inside the cursor and makes a serious mess of what appears to be skin. whats going on with the whites in the upper right of both those cursor shots? The soft looks defined and the in focus looks blurry, are these two seperate steps in whatever youre demoing?

ronnie_jackson

02-07-06, 10:36 PM

I get it !!! Ruben is a photoshop expert and is pulling a fast one on us :D

Shame on you Ruben.

Im curious why your fingers and knuckes are in the pics?

Ronnie

chirpie

02-07-06, 10:38 PM

Actually 1 mm variation in the plane field depth can cause out of focus particularly in foreground.

I'm betting against it. With decent light and a low F stop it's all moot on the "field" anyway. It's all fun to test though. ^_^

Test_Engineer

02-07-06, 10:55 PM

One of the trade name is "SheerWeave".
Interesting, first page I found with pricing.

http://www.bestblinds.com/productpages/sheerweave_2000_2390_4000.php

mmmmmm. free samples(up to 10)

Mark P

02-07-06, 11:02 PM

Interesting, first page I found with pricing.

http://www.blindstore.net/roll_shades/sheerwave4000.htm
I should have recognized this, its on our blackouts ( black of course) with white vinyl backing on an auto roller system

SmX

02-07-06, 11:08 PM

....

jmorris644

02-07-06, 11:10 PM

If that isn't good enough, you'll need to buy a plane ticket :D

Ruben

Hmmm, I think it is supposed to get below zero tonight and snow. And you are where? Ha, I got over 400,000 frequent flyer miles baby!!!! Make the guest bedroom up! :D

SmX

02-07-06, 11:12 PM

Hmmm, I think it is supposed to get below zero tonight and snow. And you are where? Ha, I got over 400,000 frequent flyer miles baby!!!! Make the guest bedroom up! :D

63% right Now in Boca Raton :cool:

Test_Engineer

02-07-06, 11:12 PM

If You want THX certified, you can buy a THX Plaque on eBay.
NICE! I like your humor! :D

jmorris644

02-07-06, 11:17 PM

63% right Now in Boca Raton :cool:

man, and you just HAD to use the shades icon to rub it in ;)

jmorris644

02-07-06, 11:20 PM

The cat's out the bag.

Ruben

Cool. Thanks Ruben. On to the next set of dilemmas. :)

chirpie

02-07-06, 11:24 PM

63% right Now in Boca Raton :cool:
I like cooking my marshmallows in the fire in the winter time thankyou very much!
(no wonder his vehicles don't miss his garage. :P)

Mark P

02-07-06, 11:25 PM

So that's pretty much it guys. I will let you test from here on if you want, but a few people are getting upset, so I will move on.

The cat's out the bag.

Ruben

I dont think anyones getting mad, this might be the most interesting topic I have seen in 6 months. Vutec and Clearpix might be mad , when Screen Research quoted our screen I wish it were 3-6K, try almost 10K and another 15 K for a masking system.

Make sure you head over to the DIY crowd and post a link to these last couple pages, you will hit a million posts by tomorrow night!

I would still love to see your results with the Clearpix thrown in, I am looking for an out door screen sort of like a drive in theater for pool partys and your material kicks the crap out of a bed sheet. I may be ordering a large sample of your #3 you choose. Is it heavy, are there weight specs?

BFauska

02-07-06, 11:31 PM

I bet that the Vutec has some sort of diffusion coating with the goal of creating a softer image, adding gain, or creating a wider viewing angle, and that coating would make the image seem less focused. I assume that now that you have a large sample you could tell if you are going to get hot spots with this new wonder-fabric, diffusion could reduce that also. If you are not seeing any hot spots or having viewing angle problems I would love to add my name to the list of people interested in knowing what this fabric is and where to get it. I figured that I would end up with speakers next to any inexpensive DIY screen instead of something that looked good, allowed sound thru, and was cheap.

A word on the camera focus debate, look at the first picture of all the samples together, they are stacked several layers deep and they are all in focus, so if ruben is taking the photos in a similar fashion then there should not be anywhere near that much difference in the focus of the camera from one layer of screen to another with the image samples. Looks like a much sharper image on the cheap screen to me.

I do see a potential problem building in the works here though. After sucking us all into his DIY scam, Ruben is going to try to get us all to join his wonder-screen pyramid sales program. :D

Keep up the brilliant work, I can't go a day without checking up on your thread.

Later,
Brian

EDIT... OOPS took ten min to type this and by the time I finished it was less relevant. Oh well.

SmX

02-07-06, 11:41 PM

.....

SmX

02-07-06, 11:51 PM

I would still love to see your results with the Clearpix thrown in, I am looking for an out door screen sort of like a drive in theater for pool partys and your material kicks the crap out of a bed sheet. I may be ordering a large sample of your #3 you choose. Is it heavy, are there weight specs?

If Your Doing an Outdoor Screen you got do this. What else is gonna be better?Especially when you can do a 98" height x 260" for under $200

The weight is 17 - 20 Ounces per linear yard.

Ruben

SmX

02-07-06, 11:53 PM

I dont think anyones getting mad, this might be the most interesting topic I have seen in 6 months. Vutec and Clearpix might be mad , when Screen Research quoted our screen I wish it were 3-6K, try almost 10K and another 15 K for a masking system.

Make sure you head over to the DIY crowd and post a link to these last couple pages, you will hit a million posts by tomorrow night!

I would still love to see your results with the Clearpix thrown in, I am looking for an out door screen sort of like a drive in theater for pool partys and your material kicks the crap out of a bed sheet. I may be ordering a large sample of your #3 you choose. Is it heavy, are there weight specs?

Hey, Maybe I should start a screen company? :D LOL

Mark P

02-08-06, 12:00 AM

If Your Doing an Outdoor Screen you got do this. What else is gonna be better?Especially when you can do a 98" height x 260" for under $200

The weight is 17 - 20 Ounces per linear yard.

Ruben

Not to mention if the wind comes up the open weave would certainly help. $200 why mess around with samples. The Mercury HDs manual says something about throwing a 500" image .

Sound would be a major issue outside

ronnie_jackson

02-08-06, 12:03 AM

Ruben, How do you think this material would rate against non-perf screens. I dont need a perf screen in my setup and if this would be comparable, Im game for saving some $$$$$

Ronnie

SmX

02-08-06, 12:09 AM

Not to mention if the wind comes up the open weave would certainly help. $200 why mess around with samples. The Mercury HDs manual says something about throwing a 500" image .

Sound would be a major issue outside

Thats what I'm doing as well. Gonna have a pool partys this summer and set up a screen outdoors. But I'm not a big baller like you :)

You can open a cinema with that bad boy.
The largest seamless height your going to get with this material is 98".
So you'll be able to do a seamless 98" x 230" (250" Diagonal) 2.35:1 Screen unless you don't mind seams, then the sky is the limit, literally :D

Ruben

SmX

02-08-06, 12:15 AM

Ruben, How do you think this material would rate against non-perf screens. I dont need a perf screen in my setup and if this would be comparable, Im game for saving some $$$$$

Ronnie

Stick with non perf If You don't need it.

The biggest factor of having your speakers behind your screen is having the True Movie going experience in your home. There is nothing better in this world than the Sound coming out of you screen like a real movie theater. I mean that's why we are building theaters right?

I figured you would be doing that with that cineplex your building there.

Ruben

ronnie_jackson

02-08-06, 12:23 AM

SmX

02-08-06, 12:29 AM

I dont really need a non-perf. I built space for my center either above or below. I guess I could always mount the center in the middle of a screen with a perf, but I would rather have better video and sacrafice a little imaging with the speaker either above or below than sacrafice picture for a center channel behind screen.

So the suggestion would be to stick with a non-perf huh?

They also make a model 4800 with 1% weave. Wonder how that would stack up?

Ronnie

I say experiment. If You like something, go with it. Your a creative, Experimental guy like me, so I think you'll do fine. When I was shooting a picture on my flat painted bone white wall, it looked just as good as allot of the samples I had up there. I think with the newer high end projectors we have now a days, the image looks damn good on just about whatever it hits.

Ruben

SmX

02-08-06, 12:31 AM

I hope some of you guys with these big Micro Perf Stewarts and Screen Research screens buy some of this material and test it out and let me know your thoughts.

Ruben

Milt99

02-08-06, 01:20 AM

Rueben,
As usual excellent work!
How do you plan on attaching the screen to your frame?
Thanks

Psychoholic

02-08-06, 01:23 AM

I am SOLD on that material! After seeing the care that you've taken in every other aspect of this theater and in the 'spared no expense' manner it's done - for you to recommend a DIY solution and building it out of this material, it must be nice stuff. Are you allowed to post where you bought it from?

SmX

02-08-06, 02:06 AM

Rueben,
As usual excellent work!
How do you plan on attaching the screen to your frame?
Thanks

Probably Gum :D Dont know yet. I have a resource to buy aluminum J-Frame material to make the frame. But I may make it out of wood and cover it with Black Commando Cloth or Velour. I may just velcro it. I will let you know when It's time to cross that bridge.

Ruben

SmX

02-08-06, 02:14 AM

SmX

02-08-06, 02:46 AM

dc_pilgrim

02-08-06, 04:40 AM

This remains the greatest thread. I am giving serious thought to investing the time to color print this thing when you are done. I hope you do the cost recap that you had mentioned doing when this started. Just an awesome survey of all the key topics. I kind of wish Bpape wasn't doing the accousitics so that we could see the Mcguyver-esque accoustic engineering that would certainly follow.

chinadog

02-08-06, 06:29 AM

Hey, Don't bother me now. I'm trying to figure out a cool name for my new screen company :D ...Now let's See.

"Da-Sandman"...

Interesting conclusions. What widths can you get the stuff in and how much did you pay for the material if you don't mind me asking? Might have missed it in one of my 100K views of your thread!

Bud

jmorris644

02-08-06, 07:10 AM

"Da-Sandman"...

Interesting conclusions. What widths can you get the stuff in and how much did you pay for the material if you don't mind me asking? Might have missed it in one of my 100K views of your thread!

Bud

Post #1090

Skippard

02-08-06, 08:19 AM

Now that Ruben has "solved" the best AT screen dilema, I can't wait to see his screen framing solution!

When Ruben is done with his HT and aquarium who thinks we should have him look at peace in the Middle East, cold fusion , the deficit, putting a man on Mars and flying cars? :D Everyone knows that he would solve all those problems and more.

"When Ruben traveled through time to the year 3010,
he fought the evil robot king and saved us all agian.
When Ruben built the pyramids,
he beat up Koublah Khan!
Cause Ruben doesn't take sh*t from an-y-bo-dy!
That's what Ruben'd do!"

jmorris644

02-08-06, 09:00 AM

jmorris644

02-08-06, 09:02 AM

OhOh,

Over 99,500 views!!!!

r00ster

02-08-06, 09:17 AM

It's around $20+ a Yard and comes in 63", 83" and 98" widths x 30 Yard Rolls.
So Yes, you can make that 160" diagonal for under $100.00 of course you would need to build your frame as well, but I have a resource for that too if You Need it.
If You want THX certified, you can buy a THX Plaque on eBay.

Ruben,

You are da man!!!. I personally love the THX certification of your screen! It would be great for all of us copy cats to learn your resource and method for your screen framing. I have been looking into your screen material and have found that Phifer fabrics are available through many custom shade manufacturers around the country. I am going to be calling some of them here in Denver today, thanks for the info.

Did you get a custom order for the 5% openness? or did you end up ordering the 4400 series? I have not found the 4100 series with 5% openness unless it is a custom order. Thanks for the hard work, keep it up.

Drew

SVonhof

02-08-06, 09:40 AM

Does anyone here know about this Platinum Paint that Stewart uses on there screens?

Ruben

Ruben, I don't think it could be considered to be a paint, since the way Stewart screens are made is from a mixture of vinyl beads that are melted and sprayed onto the ceiling (o.k., fixtures hanging from the ceiling) so that the overspray just drops out of the way and does not affect screen quality. They don't use any kind of paint that I am aware of. I have a 4.5 year old Grayhawk screen and it does have a shimmer to it when you look at it, and I don't know how they did that, but I don't beleive it's paint.

SVonhof

02-08-06, 09:44 AM

Oh, Ruben and others, in case you need a source for fabrics that are typically used for theater environments:

Rose Brand Theatrical Fabrics, Fabrication and Supplies
http://www.rosebrand.com/
New York city: 800-223-1624 or Hollywood: 800-360-5056

They have the Commando cloth that Ruben was mentioning as well as a black fabric tape for the Commando cloth.

SmX

02-08-06, 10:49 AM

....

ChiTown_Jerry

02-08-06, 11:12 AM

Having this made up as a shade might be a pretty cool solution for those who don't have the space for a permanently mounted screen!

Ruben, if you paint it are you concerned you'll be filling up the perf too much and block sound?

If you are looking for metallic paint, they have it at some craft stores. They also make some stuff called "Screen Goo" for painting on a wall, etc.. but it may add some extra reflectiveness to this material as well. I don't know anything about it but here's their site:

http://www.goosystems.com/index.php

Great find on that material! thanks, man!

Jerry

bpape

02-08-06, 11:49 AM

Sorry I'm taking away your McGuyver fix ;)

FusionRx

02-08-06, 12:08 PM

Screen company names:

"Clear-er pix"

"I did my screen research"

:D I wonder if that violates any trademark laws....

JosephShaw

02-08-06, 12:10 PM

Sample #3 (my favorite) is Phifers SheerWeave 4100 with a 10% openness color is P06 Chalk. I will try to get this in a 5% openness to have smaller holes.

Ruben

Ruben, thanks for the find. According to the Phifer web page, it appears that the style dictates the openness percentage. The 4000 is 5% openness and the 4100 is the 10% openness, but they are made of the same vinyl coated polyester yarns.

So you might want to pick up a saple of the SheerWeave 4000 in P06 chalk to avoid the custom run charges from Pfifer.

Joseph

FusionRx

02-08-06, 12:11 PM

SmX

02-08-06, 12:22 PM

....

JosephShaw

02-08-06, 12:24 PM

Re: Paint.
3M makes a reflective paint that is supposed to be similar to the reflective material that they have on bike jackets. You know the ones that shine BRIGHT WHITE when you hit it with your headlites? Cost is probably prohibitive, however. I know that the tape (like the stuff for the bike jackets) is $470 per 150ft roll (2 inches wide).

If you're talking about the 3M Scotchlite liquid paint, they no longer sell it, at least in the US. They still make the beads to add to paint to make it reflective, but from what I've read it's not something that can easily be applied since the paint rig must keep the glass beads in suspension during the painting process.

Joseph

SmX

02-08-06, 12:25 PM

....

FusionRx

02-08-06, 12:40 PM

JoesephShaw:

Then there is always this stuff: http://www.amesresearch.com/reflect.htm

JosephShaw

02-08-06, 12:44 PM

Excellent. That gallon price isn't that bad for white/clear. I wonder what the difference would be between them for a screen coating application.

Joseph

SmX

02-08-06, 01:00 PM

....

mmmkam

02-08-06, 01:47 PM

Ruben,

Any thoughts on how the other available colors would perform in order to make a higher contrast screen?

CollinViegas

02-08-06, 03:30 PM

Sandman, I dont know if this was asked but I really like the carpet in your renders. I was wondering if you would be kind enough to tell me where you are getting it from?

Thanks in advance.

SmX

02-08-06, 03:34 PM

Sandman, I dont know if this was asked but I really like the carpet in your renders. I was wondering if you would be kind enough to tell me where you are getting it from?

Thanks in advance.

Thanks, I'm tyring to decide which direction to run the lines in the room. There are 2 renders with 2 different directions, if anyone cares to comment.

The carpet is made by Masland and it's called the Quadrate.
http://www.maslandcarpets.com/

Ruben

SmX

02-08-06, 03:42 PM

....

CollinViegas

02-08-06, 03:54 PM

I like the looks of the carpet running down, like it is in the chairs render. So that is my vote.

jmorris644

02-08-06, 04:13 PM

If you're talking about the 3M Scotchlite liquid paint, they no longer sell it, at least in the US. They still make the beads to add to paint to make it reflective, but from what I've read it's not something that can easily be applied since the paint rig must keep the glass beads in suspension during the painting process.

Joseph

I am sure you are right. I used to work at 3M and if I remember correctly it is made up of glass beads where one half of the bead is relective. This is what gives you the reflection from many angles. You never can tell, or control, how the beads line up when applied in regards to which side of the bead ends up where.

Joe

dreamhost

02-08-06, 04:18 PM

SmX

02-08-06, 06:46 PM

....

SmX

02-08-06, 06:56 PM

Updates:

I saw Buds thread and said "let me get back to work". So today we finished the screen wall and front stage sidewalls. We will build the Prosceniums for the stage tomorrow and get the rest of the electrical work done.

Then we will begin the screen frame. I may do a curved screen, that is still up in the air as of right now.

Here is some shots...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-screen-wall/DSC08284.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-screen-wall/DSC08262.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-screen-wall/DSC08263.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-screen-wall/DSC08264.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-screen-wall/DSC08267.jpg

This is NOT the screen material. This is a wrinkled dirty sheet...
I took this shot with the camera up against the ceiling.
You Gotta Love Jessica Alba :)

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-screen-wall/DSC08286.jpg

Mark P

02-08-06, 07:19 PM

Updates:

You Gotta Love Jessica Alba :)

You said a mouthful there.

2.35:1 looks great. I think you will be happy with that choice

SmX

02-08-06, 08:18 PM

Come on Guys, I need your help!

I'm about to schedule my carpet installation and want your opinions on the orientation of it.

Which direction do you think the lines should be running in the theater?

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-room-renders/5.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-room-renders/3.jpg

This is a better shot of the carpet

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/18404_small.jpg

Thanks
Ruben

chiabob

02-08-06, 08:28 PM

I vote for front to back.

Big Worms

02-08-06, 08:29 PM

Awesome work Ruben! My vote for the carpet is the one that faces the screen (front to back).

swithey

02-08-06, 09:23 PM

Ruben,

I know this may seem weird, but have you considered running the lines on the diagonal? This can make your space appear larger and not lock you into a "straight" patterned look. It works great with tile :D

swithey

02-08-06, 10:12 PM

SmX

02-08-06, 10:20 PM

Ruben,

What exact GOM fabric did you use on your soffits and around your screen? I like the look of the weave on yours but it does not seem to match any of the GOM samples I have now. Is the one you selected accoustically transparent to put in from of speakers?

That's just the Regular FR703 in Black. I got it from fabricmate.com
It is accoustically transparent. I have to tell you though, their runs vary, so when you buy your GoM make sure you buy enough or the next run may be off in color and weave. It happened to me with the Black. The Star Ceiling is a different weave and Black than everything else.

Ruben

BIGmouthinDC

02-08-06, 10:36 PM

Sandman:

When I talked to my carpet guy he indicated that the Quadrate pattern is best with seams running parallel with the ribs and the highlight color. So based on your room where were they planning the seams might suggest an orientation.

J-dubb16

02-08-06, 10:37 PM

I like the front to back with the carpet, your second pic. I think it gives the room a directionaliy factor towards that custom-made, heavily researched screen. In Architecture, it is always good to provide a linear element that gets you to a focal point.

J-dubb

Test_Engineer

02-08-06, 11:00 PM

Guys, I also want to add that I am trying different Painting options with this weaved material as well. I posted this in my other thread a while back in the DIY Screen Section but never posted It in here. I am experimenting with different metallic silver paints to get that extra intense imaging.

I just got a PM from Alan Gouger and he said if I can find the right Platinum/Silver Paint to use with this material, that I would have found my Dream Screen. Does anyone here know about this Platinum Paint that Stewart uses on there screens?

Ruben

Ruben,

You might want to try the Behr paint that everyone seems to use. I'm not exactly sure of the color, it might be called "silver screen". If you do a search on " Behr Silver screen" you get a lot of threads that talk about it.

Carpet direction: I like this way. The other direction would look funny near the curved stage.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-room-renders/3.jpg

SmX

02-08-06, 11:05 PM

SmX

02-08-06, 11:09 PM

You said a mouthful there.

2.35:1 looks great. I think you will be happy with that choice

I just want to chew on her cheek :D

ronnie_jackson

02-08-06, 11:10 PM

My vote is front to back as pictured with the chairs.

Ronnie

SmX

02-08-06, 11:16 PM

Thanks for All your Suggestions guys. My original intentions were to run the lines from front to back. But once I saw Chirpies renders, I liked that too.

I think the carpet comes in 12 foot widths and my room is 15 feet wide. So I guess the seam will run down the middle of the Room and Up the Steps and on the Stage and same for the platform. Does that sound common?

Test_Engineer
I will give it a try. But I heard Platinum is the ultimate solution. Tryg "the screen test Guru" is going to try out some options with it as well. He is suppose to call me soon.

Ruben

Frank D

02-08-06, 11:42 PM

Regarding carpet orientation both look very nice but front to back would be my first choice too.

Not sure how a pro would carpet it. If you have properly installed seems it should not matter. Alternatively you can run the carpet 12 feet in the centre and then maybe put a 1.5 foot solid black or red boarder all around.

SmX

02-08-06, 11:44 PM

Alternatively you can run the carpet 12 feet in the centre and then maybe put a 1.5 foot solid black or red boarder all around.

I was thinking the same thing. That might be interesting.

Thanks
Ruben

chinadog

02-08-06, 11:50 PM

Ruben,

I agree with Frank D. et al on the front to back, but better yet like Frank says, the border in black to match the overhang of the soffits. Sounds like another Chirpie special.

Bud

SmX

02-09-06, 01:03 AM

Can anyone here recommend a good outdoor weatherproof Speaker?

Thanks
Ruben

Mark P

02-09-06, 01:49 AM

Can anyone here recommend a good outdoor weatherproof Speaker?

Thanks
Ruben

I too am interested here, hopefully someone responds.

I am probably going to make mine but they wont stay out year round and will be made out of pro audio drivers like Bands use

SVonhof

02-09-06, 09:11 AM

BIGmouthinDC

02-09-06, 09:35 AM

Good outdoor speakers?

Reminds me of a interview that Bruce Willis gave on one of the late night shows after just making it big and buying a hollywood hills home. Apparently his neighbors had been complaining about his loud music.

He had some work done to the backyard and construction was underway for a pool house and cabana. A neighbor inquired if he was building a pool house and he replied No, just building some more speakers.

jmorris644

02-09-06, 10:00 AM

Come on Guys, I need your help!

I'm about to schedule my carpet installation and want your opinions on the orientation of it.

Thanks
Ruben

Is there a dimension of the room that you feel you would have liked to have longer? Either the width or the length of the room? If so, you could use the direction of the carpet to make that dimension "feel" longer than it really is.

Kind of like how vertical stripes on a short person makes them look taller (My wife is 5.1" tall)

Joe

jmorris644

02-09-06, 10:02 AM

Updates:

This is NOT the screen material. This is a wrinkled dirty sheet...

I took this shot with the camera up against the ceiling.
You Gotta Love Jessica Alba :)

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-screen-wall/DSC08286.jpg

A wrinkled DIRTY sheet? Thank God you have not installed a black light!! Ewww :)

What movie is that scene from?

Joe

david_pflanzer

02-09-06, 10:23 AM

Can anyone here recommend a good outdoor weatherproof Speaker?

Thanks
Ruben

I highly recommend RBH's AWS-6. They are much better than the Bose 151's and have survived the last four years outside in the hot, humid and rainy weather we have here in Tampa.

http://www.rbhsound.com/aws6.shtml

Maybe I am a little biased since I am a dealer for their products but at an MSRP of $349/pr you can't go wrong.

I've even done lanai/patio installations using them in a 5.1 configuration with an in-wall sub.

David.

Mark P

02-09-06, 10:52 AM

Mark, how much space between you and your closest neighbor? I ask because the professional grade drivers are made for max SPL. Sound quality and high SPL don't always mix and what happens lots of times is that the pro drivers are not able to go as low as we normally want for home theater. Also, they are made for very large spaces and take more room for the sound to develop properly.

About a half a mile give or take on the neighbors. Achieving sound quality outside could turn into another 100K responces on this thread and never find the answer.

The problem with moving a theater outside for poolside fun is that you can go huge with the screen but unless you go pro audio, your sound with no reflections or anything but air & grass sounds small and brighter than heck. I know the Clark Synthesis Tactile Transducers work as outdoor speakers but they have to be mounted to a structure like a deck or in the swimming pool to work but strange enough sound pretty good. If your placing them in the pool they have to be the underwater variety of course.

Take a pair of 20K speakers and stick them out in the open spaces and they just sound like horse pucky when sitting a good distance from them.

I hope someone comes up with something other than a boombox here , maybe Davids brand are the ticket, I would like to demo a set locally.

rm1759

02-09-06, 01:26 PM

I have had great results from my trusty B&W LM-1's on my patio. I live on the intracoastal here in St. Petersburg, FL, and they have held up great for the last 3 years, with no sign of sound deterioration. They are on a covered patio, but it is open all the way to the water. I have already had one cooking grill rust away in the same time, but the B&W's appear to be holding up very well so far...

Ruben, you might want a higher quality speaker, but for me, the LM-1's have worked very well, and they weren't terribly expensive ($150 ea). My opinion always was that if they did fail in 5 years or so, i can always buy new ones... I do not know if you can still get this line, but if not surely there are some to be had on e-bay...

dhp10

02-09-06, 02:05 PM

Can anyone here recommend a good outdoor weatherproof Speaker?

Thanks
Ruben

In order to fill my poolside area (60' x 50') with quality sound, I opted to go with an outdoor commercial solution, than the typical "stuff" you can purchase at CC or BB.
I use 2 Electro-Voice EVID 6.2's with an EVID 12.1 powered subwoofer.

I have had great luck with this configuration & the beauty is you don't need to crank them up to get great sound & fill the area. However, with any outdoor audio application, it becomes difficult to compete with Mother Nature's massive open space. A home theater configuration would probably require many more strategically placed speakers.

This Thread Rocks!!! Great Job Sandman!

skyman00

02-09-06, 02:39 PM

Joe-
That's Jessica Alba in "Into the Blue". She's so hot! -j

skyman00

02-09-06, 03:40 PM

Updates:
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/new-screen-wall/DSC08286.jpg

This picture is a good example of an optical illusion.
If you look real close, you'll find a guy, a home theater and some tools in it as well. -j

krasmuzik

02-09-06, 04:18 PM

Jessica Alba direction? Certainly front and back. Why are you all talking about carpet? :D

bpape

02-09-06, 04:19 PM

The carpet would look good either way - as long as Jessica is on it...

SmX

02-09-06, 04:52 PM

This picture is a good example of an optical illusion.
If you look real close, you'll find a guy, a home theater and some tools in it as well. -j

If you look real close, you'll see the guy's hand on her ass.

skyman00

02-09-06, 04:59 PM

If you look real close, you'll see the guy's hand on her ass.

That Paul Walker's one lucky guy.

BFauska

02-09-06, 05:43 PM

Ruben,

You might try some JBL control series speakers. Control 25 and Control 30 speakers are nice full range without being too big. You might still want a sub. If they have Guitar Center in FL, you could probably audition them there. I have used them in pro audio situations many times and like the sound, they are made in an all-weather housing and when I was living in Sacramento I noticed that the state fairgrounds were outfitted with them so I know they can take the outdoor enviroment.

Later,
Brian

CollinViegas

02-09-06, 06:37 PM

Sandman what color of Red GOM fabric did you use? Thanks again for your help.

SmX

02-09-06, 07:13 PM

Sandman what color of Red GOM fabric did you use? Thanks again for your help.

Hi Collin,

I been getting a Few PMs asking about the colors I used as well. So here are all the colors I used...

Guilford of Maine FR-701
Color: 418 Claret Accent

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/colors/418.jpg

Guilford of Maine FR-701
Color: 408 Black

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/colors/408.jpg

Wood: Red Oak
Colors: See Below

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/colors/wood-stain.jpg

Ruben

SmX

02-09-06, 09:54 PM

Updates:

Well today we got most of the Electrical finished up. We got the grafik Eye installed and all the Zones hooked up. If you building a theater or any type of media room, the Grafik Eye is a must Have. We have 6 different light Zones in Our theater and and with the push of a single buttton, all the lights adjust to where you want them.

So our 6 Zones are..

1) Stage Lights
2) Soffit Lights
3) Tray Lights
4) Star Ceiling
5) Step Lights
6) Future Sconce Lights (if any)

The Grafik Eye has 4 Scenes meaning here is what I set up So far.
Scene 1 (Button 1) All Lights raise on to full brightness for walk in.
Scene 2 (Button 2) The Stage Lights slowly dim to off, the column lights Dim to low, the Star ceiling dims to Low, tray lights Dim to low, step Lights come on for Movie viewing.

I will set more scenes up as well. This will all be controlled by remote. So when I hit play movie, the lights Dim movie curtain opens (If I use them) etc.

Here are some pictures...

Remember all those messy wires in the columns? Damn, never Mind the wires, remember those columns :D ?

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/grafik-eye/DSC06344.jpg

Here they are now...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/grafik-eye/DSC08302.jpg

Here is a column that a Surround will go in. The surrounds requie an outlet to power the panels so all the outlets in my columns are wired to the Monster Power Conditioner.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/grafik-eye/DSC08294.jpg

Here is a close up of the grafik Eye. This will be inside a column and will never touched after its set. The cover is open on it.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/grafik-eye/DSC08304.jpg

Here it is with the cover closed...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/grafik-eye/DSC08305.jpg

Here is how the wiring looks inside it for 6 zones...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/grafik-eye/DSC08079.jpg

Ruben

SmX

02-09-06, 10:50 PM

Hey Guys, I got my carpet ordered today thanks to everyone here helping me make up my mind.

The carpet place originally sent a guy out to my place to measure and he came up with 56 Yards. I thought he was way off. So I found out they wanted me to pay for 23 yards of waste which would of been $828 extra. So we did the measurements ourselfs and figured a way to do the room with only 2 yards of waste.

So it goes to show you, if you don't watch your back, these carpet people will eat you alive. So they had me sign off on the amount of carpet I ordered. It ended up being that I only needed 33 square yards and they were saying I needed 56 square yards.

Ruben

SmX

02-09-06, 10:59 PM

BIGmouthinDC

02-09-06, 11:11 PM

When are you going to stop? next you'll be wanting a WW2 surpus search light to put in the drive way as a beacon for your friends to find the house.

I'm just just jealous that I haven't got my carpet in at your price yet.

SmX

02-09-06, 11:14 PM

FusionRx

02-10-06, 12:11 AM

I would also like to chime in on the EVid's. Great speakers, and superb quality, both build and sound-wise. I happen to know the Global Sales manager, so if anyone is interested in contacting them directly, let me know and I can PM you his contact info.

david_pflanzer

02-10-06, 08:47 AM

Folks,

I am looking for another projector for outside. I don't really care about a HD picture and all that, I just need something halfway clear and Cheap that's bright enough to do a 98" x 230" 2.35:1 (250" Diagonal) screen.

Any Suggestions?

Thanks
Ruben

My outdoor screen is 14ft diag (168") and I use an Optoma EP739 (2500 Lumens), but you may want to consider the EP758 (3000 Lumens) or EP759 (3500 Lumens). The first can be found for around $1200.

These are all XGA DLP Projectors with native 4x3 aspect ratio but I project at 16x9. You will have a difficult time finding any affordable DLP projector with a high lumen rating and > than XGA resolution. And for that size you want high lumens (and because it is outdoors).

David.

jmorris644

02-10-06, 08:53 AM

Updates:

Well today we got most of the Electrical finished up.

Have you had someone look at the wiring from a code perspective? I don't want to necessarily set off any alarms cause it is hard to tell from the pictures but the mixture of 12guage and 14guage that you have I am pretty sure would not be in code in MN.

Joe

mmmkam

02-10-06, 08:57 AM

Ruben,

Couple of question on the GE install.

1) Did you use the 1 or 2 box wiring method?

2) Is that the plastic 4 gang retrofit box that you used to mount it in?

3) Was it much of a pain to get it all stuffed in there?

That looks like the same box I roughed in and I used the one box install method, but haven't ordered the GE yet.

Thanks again for all the great info. Looks like you are in the home stretch

SmX

02-10-06, 10:53 AM

Have you had someone look at the wiring from a code perspective? I don't want to necessarily set off any alarms cause it is hard to tell from the pictures but the mixture of 12guage and 14guage that you have I am pretty sure would not be in code in MN.

Joe

Everything is up to code here in FL. My worker was an electrician out here for 7 years. You can Mix 12, 14 or any Other guage up to 15 amps. Over 15 amps it must be all 12 or better.

SmX

02-10-06, 10:56 AM

darkman2003

02-10-06, 11:33 AM

As always great job Ruben !!!

SVonhof

02-10-06, 11:36 AM

Ruben, when is the blue tape coming off the columns? :)

SmX

02-10-06, 01:12 PM

Ruben, when is the blue tape coming off the columns? :)

We picked up a smaller air brush today to do those grooves before the tape melts to the columns. Well anyway, its all done now and the tape is off! :D

Finally.

MaximAvs

02-10-06, 02:13 PM

mmmkam

02-10-06, 03:51 PM

We picked up a smaller air brush today to do those grooves before the tape melts to the columns. Well anyway, its all done now and the tape is off! :D

Finally.

We arn't going to take your word for it.... you need to post updated pics. :)

david_pflanzer

02-10-06, 07:18 PM

You have a PM.

David.

SmX

02-11-06, 02:40 AM

Updates:

Well today we finished up the electrical work.

Installed the Motorized curtain track (that I feel I got cheated on). When I opened up the Track box, the track was a skinny, wimpsy, cheap white track with a small BTX Motor. When I ordered a BTX track in NY, they delivered me a real nice heavy duty Track with 2 nice big BTX Motors. I think you can get this same track (generic name) on eBay for $150. I paid $550.00 for the BTX name.

We installed the Equipment Rack.

We also thoroughly cleaned the theater out so Its ready for the Carpet people next week.

I ordered my perforated metal Grils for the Columns to go under the GoM for extra Support. Cost was $350.00 for 6 25" x 44" perforated steel sheets with a 41% openness.

The Prosceniums still need to be made. We are going to wait for the carpet before we install them. We did get all our wood painted Black for them though.

And Yes, Finally, we painted the grooves on the columns and Removed the blue tape.

So Here are the Pictures:

Here is the Equipment Rack without the Wood Trim and with the service track Attached. Those are some of the custom rack shelves installed for the Amps and other equipment I have thats not rackmountable. Maybe this Weekend I will start hooking up the equipment in there...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/rack-installed/DSC08350.jpg

The Rack Rolls out..

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/rack-installed/DSC08353.jpg

And Rotates in both directions so you can access the wires in the back. The rack is made by Middle Atlantic and Costs about $800.00 with the service track.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/rack-installed/DSC08354.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/rack-installed/DSC08355.jpg

Here are some theater shots so Far...

That openening is where my Curved 2.35:1 Audio transparent Screen will be hanging and my 2 Main speakers, center channel and Sub will be in there too. You can see some of the treatments on the wall behind the screen wall. That is all 4" Cotton, the bottom 2 Feet gets paper faced and I will be GoMing that wall behind the screen as well.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/rack-installed/DSC08334.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/rack-installed/DSC08345.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/rack-installed/DSC08346.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/rack-installed/DSC08343.jpg

Enjoy!

CollinViegas

02-11-06, 03:11 AM

KWhite

02-11-06, 05:34 AM

Looks like with a little more practice you may be getting the hang of this home theater building thing.....just kidding, awsome work, just awsome.

mmmkam

02-11-06, 08:47 AM

Fantastic work as always. Keep it up your almost there.

Tukkis

02-11-06, 09:50 AM

Ruben, you have a PM

FusionRx

02-11-06, 10:50 AM

So have you run a personal beer tap to each chair as well? :D

charlesB

02-11-06, 10:55 AM

fantastic!! I look foward to more pics

miltimj

02-11-06, 11:21 AM

SmX

02-11-06, 12:46 PM

As always great job Ruben !!!

Thanks man, it's real nice to finally see this come close to the end.

Ruben

SmX

02-11-06, 12:50 PM

Ruben...

I'm not deffending the carpet guys, cause I know they tend to ream ya if your not paying attention, but I know that if you buy a carpet with a pattern, a lot of stores will require more sf so they can be sure they can match the pattern. I think 35 yds is a little much, but some would be fair.

Sean

Hi Sean,

Yes, I was aware that there needs to be a bit of waste when doing patterned carpets. But these guys were really trying to take me for a ride.

Ruben

SmX

02-11-06, 12:51 PM

We arn't going to take your word for it.... you need to post updated pics. :)

I posted Them :)

SmX

02-11-06, 12:52 PM

You have a PM.

David.

I just Responded to your PM.

SmX

02-11-06, 12:55 PM

I am extremely jelous...lol

It's looking amazing, At the end of the entire project would you mind putting up a ballpark price for the enitre room minus equipment from start to finish?

Thanks in advance and enjoy your little slice of heaven.

Thanks Collin for your compliments.

I already posted expenses about 10 pages or so Back for all the construction.
But I will try to re-tally everything once done.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

02-11-06, 12:57 PM

Looks like with a little more practice you may be getting the hang of this home theater building thing.....just kidding, awsome work, just awsome.

I'm trying to look as good as these other pro's here on AVS. :)

Ruben

SmX

02-11-06, 01:04 PM

Fantastic work as always. Keep it up your almost there.

Thanks mmmkam,

Believe it or not, the projector is hung and I haven't tried to watch a movie in there yet, Besides a little testing. Since I had a theater in my last home (nothing like this) I already know what to expect as far as the enjoyment of Your own personal theater.

For a person That never had a theater in their home before, they get real anxious to want to watch a movie and then never finish the job. But I personally reversed that, I'm real anxious to complete the theater then the movies can come next.

Ruben

SmX

02-11-06, 01:05 PM

Ruben, you have a PM

I just responded to it.

Thanks

SmX

02-11-06, 01:28 PM

So have you run a personal beer tap to each chair as well? :D

Sorry, I hate Beer. I don't drink, though I have plenty of friends that do :) One friend asked me to put a Ventilation system in the Theater so he can Smoke in it, can you believe that?

Ruben

SmX

02-11-06, 01:36 PM

fantastic!! I look foward to more pics

Thanks, More pictures will come :D

Milt99

02-11-06, 02:05 PM

Tryg

02-11-06, 02:20 PM

SmX

02-11-06, 02:54 PM

Man, finally caught up to the end of your thread.. It's looking phenomenal.. I'm going to point my wife to this thread as soon as you get a few pics up of the carpet installed.. And I'm incredibly relieved (strange but true) that you chose 2.35:1 as I don't think there's really any other way to go with a theater such as yours.

As I've been learning about dedicated HTs (especially the past two years) in preparation for mine, it seems that what I find in others' ideas I've picked and chosen, and your theater is almost exactly it. The only differences at this point being that it's in your garage, I don't think you're using tactile transducers (unless I missed that part, in which case ignore that comment :D), and I want to be able to access the back of my rack without pulling it out. I also was planning on standard rectangular columns though I really love the look of the round columns now. I'm just not sure how proficient I can be with veneer and whether it'd look like crap if I tried it and it didn't work very well. I'm quite handy if I can be shown how to do something, but am not sure I can learn something like that "remotely" (shown via pictures and explanation), similar to how it's a bit more difficult to explain drywall mudding and copper soldering without actually having someone there to show you (just trying to think of some examples).

Awesome, awesome job Ruben. Keep up the phenomenal work, and I look forward to more pictures! (and so does my wife.. she just doesn't know it yet ;))

Thanks Man.

It's funny how the Garage Home Theater craze is blowing up. I have a friend who has an $11 million Home here In south Florida that is coverting his 6 car garage into a Home Theater/Game Room. He was completely blown away when he saw the transformation I did to my garage. He also has a couple Hummers, Benz's, and Beemers and I would of figured he'd want a garage for those. But he decided like me.

So I think I will be helping him Out a bit along the way. :)

As far as doing a good veneer job, as long as you have a little patience, you can achieve superior results. Its really not a hard thing to do.

I don't understand your question about tactile transducers. Do you mean Butt Kickers on the chairs? If so, I have intentions on doing those. I wired my platform to cover that.

As far as the 2.35:1 decision, I don't know how there could of been any other choice for me. I just didn't do allot of screen Aspect Ratio research when I started building. I'm glad I started reading the 2.35:1 forums and got to understand why 2.35:1 is now so important to me.

Ruben

SmX

02-11-06, 03:09 PM

Ruben,
I know I'm being repetitive with the other admiring posts but your theater really is your vision made real and a damn good one.
What has amazed me is how focused and consistent your progress has been while maintaining meticulous attention to detail considering it's diy, you have a family, you have a business and you had a hurricane.

A couple posts back I think I discovered one of your secrets: :D

Earlier you posted that you had a source for the j frame to secure the screen fabric. I'm looking for j frame too and could use some help if you can.
Thanks.

Nah Man, Thanks. I love the fact that some people here like my taste and appreciate my detail. I seen other theaters here with tons of crown moldings and wood work that I personally don't Care for but others admire as well. I like the more modern clean lines look. Believe me, If I was into the whole dramatic crown molding and wood panels look, I would be sure to make it top notch.

I am happy to say that there isn't anything in the theater I feel I would change, Given the space I had to transform. Even though I made multiple changes throughout the build, I am now glad I did. At least now I can sit in the room that was my complete vision, I can also die in the room and be happy.

In a perfect world, If I could change anything about the room It would be, a separate room for Equipment with 4 Racks and a larger theater room maybe 20' x 30' x 10'.

As far as the J-Frame resource, I will let you know in a few days when I get some samples in.

Ruben

Mark P

02-11-06, 03:18 PM

2. This amazing theater deserves a Sony VPL-VW100 (the Ruby). This projector outperforms anything under $50k as far as I'm concerned (easily found for $7500). Bottom line is a 1080p projector will kill a 720p projector. Not to mention it's 3 chip, has Xenon bulb, wider color pallet etc etc etc.

I wonder why Mr. Poindexters near million dollar theater build has a 720P Digital Projections Mercury HD being installed instead of a Ruby, granted the Merc HD is twice the cost of the Ruby, but saying the Ruby would kill any 720P with its nearly 3K bulb replacement and outperforming " anything" under 50K may be a stretch that should be left in the PJ forums. There are some folks on this forum that have passed on the Ruby and went for 720P for a reason.

I do strongly agree with your recomendation of reconsidering a gain screen though, little samples can be deceiving. It would be nice to have local places to observe the difference. We have a place here in Portland where you can see the difference between a Screen Research and the Stewart line

SmX

02-11-06, 03:20 PM

Ruben.

Kudos for a 5 star theater and Thread! You are what makes AVS great.

A couple suggestions.

1. Consider the benefitial properties of a posative gain screen. Having properly imaged audio is important but having the best image is too. I know there is tradeoffs but some of the gain screens clearly outperform nuetral gain ones.

2. This amazing theater deserves a Sony VPL-VW100 (the Ruby). This projector outperforms anything under $50k as far as I'm concerned (easily found for $7500). Bottom line is a 1080p projector will kill a 720p projector. Not to mention it's 3 chip, has Xenon bulb, wider color pallet etc etc etc. Here's My comparison to the Optima H79.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=618823

Good luck and I'll keep folowing this thread.

Thanks again Ruben

Tryg, The Screen test Guru. Thanks for all your knowledge.
Knowing people like you and BPape is what makes one have the perfect theater.
After talking to you today on the phone, you got Me wanting to eBay my unused Optoma H-79 and getting the Ruby. I will spend this weekend reading up on the Ruby and make a final decision from there. I didn't realize the Ruby buried the Optoma like you said and being that it's 1080 and twice as bright, it should hold it's weight for a while.

Thanks
Ruben

SmX

02-11-06, 03:27 PM

I wonder why Mr. Poindexters near million dollar theater build has a 720P Digital Projections Mercury HD being installed instead of a Ruby, granted the Merc HD is twice the cost of the Ruby, but saying the Ruby would kill any 720P with its nearly 3K bulb replacement and outperforming " anything" under 50K may be a stretch that should be left in the PJ forums. There are some folks on this forum that have passed on the Ruby and went for 720P for a reason.

This is a very Good question Mark.

miltimj

02-11-06, 03:36 PM

As far as doing a good veneer job, as long as you have a little patience, you can achieve superior results. Its really not a hard thing to do.

I don't understand your question about tactile transducers. Do you mean Butt Kickers on the chairs? If so, I have intentions on doing those. I wired my platform to cover that.
That's encouraging. I'll be reading and re-reading your instructions to hopefully get it done right.. One other thing I'm curious about, if you can provide information for past and future items, is where you go to find certain things that may not be commonplace. (Studs are common place, veneer not necessarily, IMO)

Yes, tactile transducers are Buttkickers.. (buttkickers are just a brand/model name) Glad to hear you planned for that (though it doesn't surprise me) :)

Mark P

02-11-06, 03:36 PM

This is a very Good question Mark.Actually after I thought about it for a second it was sort of a stupid question, Mr.P is going to have a quite large screen and is a DP dealer so both those points answer that, More appropriate would be to call the owner of this forum and ask his impressions of the Ruby vs Mercury and others on his 2.35:1 that may be the same size as yours Ruben.

Mark P

02-11-06, 03:42 PM

As far as Butt kickers go we found that mounted in the chairs felt like massaging recliners on steriods while placing them inside the riser was far more natural and impacting of an experience. Clark Synthesis is another option that is more expensive but a pair of these powers a rather large riser with pretty impressive impact. Before carpeting you may want to do some playing. Too bad your about as far away as it gets , I would let you use some Clarks for some riser testing

dc_pilgrim

02-11-06, 04:00 PM

Bear in mind that Tyrg is very enthusiastic about the Ruby, and would often get into debates with people who enjoy DLP. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion, mind you, but bear in mind that it is not always shared.

I don't have a dog in the fight, at all, as I have no projectors of any sort. I hope the ruby or anything better is insanely cheap when I am ready to finish my basement, which is looking like it might be a while.

I do think the comparison should be made based on that Alba shot though.

SmX

02-11-06, 04:11 PM

That's encouraging. I'll be reading and re-reading your instructions to hopefully get it done right.. One other thing I'm curious about, if you can provide information for past and future items, is where you go to find certain things that may not be commonplace. (Studs are common place, veneer not necessarily, IMO)

Yes, tactile transducers are Buttkickers.. (buttkickers are just a brand/model name) Glad to hear you planned for that (though it doesn't surprise me) :)

If you want, I can PM you a Link to my personal Blog where everything is organized and there is allot more photos and descriptions as well.

Ruben

FusionRx

02-11-06, 04:15 PM

Ruben,

Show your friend with the 11 mill house, Mark P's remodeled area.. I'm sure he could do similar with a 6 car garage. And get him signed up here, I'm sure we'd all be curious what a truly Large dollar remodel would look like (can see it being bigger budget than Mr. P's.)

"I don't drink". Sorry, I should have said a 'chilled beverage tap to each chair'.. ;-)

Anyhow, just a congratulatory note. Fantastic theatre...

BTW, is the Ruby pj the 4k x4k projector that Sony was offering at one point?

bpape

02-11-06, 04:50 PM

I've not seen the ruby but have 2 customers (1 in the works now and 1 waiting) that are planning to use the Ruby. They both did a ton of research and said it just blew away everything else. Now, the cost is higher, the bulb is higher, etc.

I can't say personally as I haven't seen it. One of them did say though that he was leaning toward the 79 until he saw the Ruby.

DanC-P

02-11-06, 06:37 PM

Ruben,

I PMed you a few days ago about an article I am writing. Please let me know if you didn't get my message.

Thanks!

Dan

Brian Ravnaas

02-11-06, 07:04 PM

SmX

02-11-06, 07:17 PM

this thread has a shot at the AVS record, doesn't it? does anybody know what the AVS record is?

check this one out: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=170942

i think (maybe?) Ted White of Audio Alloy notoriety might hold the record, but at the rate this thread is going, that'll fall in a month or two.

Sandman, if i was you i'd drag out the construction process a bit to make sure you geti t... :p

j/k of course

nice work

Hey Maybe if My thread gets as big as Teds DIY Speaker thread I can start a Blue Glue Company :D

But right Now SandmanX is Holding down the #1 position in the Home Theater Construction Forums. Dennis Erskine ain't got nothing on me ;)

But anyway, if Your giving Out cash prizes, I'll take mine now :)

All Jokes, but Seriously, if I was to post all the pictures and descriptions of building this It would of been another 20 - 30 pages long.

Ruben

CollinViegas

02-11-06, 08:15 PM

If you want, I can PM you a Link to my personal Blog where everything is organized and there is allot more photos and descriptions as well.

Ruben

I you could please PM me with this, as i am in my research stage it would be of great help to me...

Thanks sandman...

SmX

02-11-06, 09:03 PM

Ruben ,

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/PA170662.jpghttp://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/PA170663.jpg

Mark,

Why the hell did they put all the inputs and power cord on the front of the projector? I sat here for an hour trying to figure that out.

Ruben

SmX

02-11-06, 09:06 PM

Ruben,

I PMed you a few days ago about an article I am writing. Please let me know if you didn't get my message.

Thanks!

Dan

I been getting tons of PMs I might of missed it Got over 100 PMs this week.
Do you want to feature it In PlayBoy or something? :D

Z06Racer

02-11-06, 10:03 PM

If you want, I can PM you a Link to my personal Blog where everything is organized and there is allot more photos and descriptions as well.

Ruben

I would love to see it too.

Tryg

02-11-06, 10:03 PM

Bear in mind that Tyrg is very enthusiastic about the Ruby, and would often get into debates with people who enjoy DLP. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion, mind you, but bear in mind that it is not always shared.

I'm not going to get into any arguements here but I will review some facts.

1. The Ruby is the first projector EVER on AVS to get its own forum. It also outposted the >3500 forum, which contained all other projectors. Maybe some people may have some knowledge of these things?

2. I have viewed/reviewed every higher end digital projector available since 1993. This is ~200+ projectors. I may have learned something in the last 13 years?

3. I interact regularly with the best and brightest in the industry.

Yes I'm biased to the Ruby. When someone can show me a production consumer projector at ANY price that beats it I'd be happy to give it my blessing.

Finally dc_pilgrim, I have nothing to gain. There's a unpopularity with my observations here ONLY because there is dealers on AVS that have $$$ at stake. I have no affiliation with any HT business. My opinions have never been purchased. Some of the local dealers that aren't Sony dealers will have to get used to changes in the industry.

mike_somd

02-11-06, 10:16 PM

Very nice looking theater. I especially like the color scheme.

a pm of your blog addy would be nice

Mark P

02-11-06, 10:41 PM

Mark,

Why the hell did they put all the inputs and power cord on the front of the projector? I sat here for an hour trying to figure that out.

RubenNot sure but I am glad they did in our application, the back has all the projector controls and drops down to expose the fan filters and lamp assembly. This Projector is large and certainly the quietest I have ever heard, in econo mode you have to almost put your ear next to it to see if the fan still runs.

I dont think this projector is meant so much for a normal sized room with a 8'-10' screen It has no troubles with 20' screens from what I gather and somewhere in the manual I thought I saw something about 250" or 500" screen. Its been awhile since I read it but it was huge. Maybe someone can chime in but I think these are used for cinemas and large venues. I recall my order taking slightly longer to get because some bigtime outfit ( Disney or someone like that) bought 50 of them at the same time we placed our order.

I think the majority of them are located behind a wall in a projection room or equiptment room.

Mr. Poindexter are you out there? Do you know why?

Marc Ye

02-11-06, 11:28 PM

Sandman,
Looks great! Keep up the good work. Love your stage.

theirishgonzo

02-11-06, 11:37 PM

ihave a benq 8700+ and i love it . i would like to trade it in but i eill wait another couple of years till a 2.35 projector is bought with no extra add ons. also i dont see the need for a butkicker. i have a awsome sub 4 18in subs and rock the house and the house too. i love your theater and i am going to put a star celing in my theater. and i am adding coloms to it to they are square. i do like the color scheme but it would look cool in blue too big fan of blue.

ebr

02-11-06, 11:42 PM

Darn you guys... now you've given me the 2.35 CH bug and have me trying to re-design the front of my room to somehow accommodate it. Grrrrrr.... ;)

SmX

02-11-06, 11:52 PM

Darn you guys... now you've given me the 2.35 CH bug and have me trying to re-design the front of my room to somehow accommodate it. Grrrrrr.... ;)

You Gots to do it.

Its true, like they told me, a 16:9 Movie Screen is just like a big TV and we are making movie theaters here, not Big TVs.

Ruben

khellandros66

02-12-06, 12:29 AM

:D Great job SandmanX.

I would have to say that this is the 1# helpful thread out there, I will always use this as a reference, esp when it comes a time for me to build my own dedicated theater. As for now school is the priorty.

I have seen what the 720 LCD Sony (few tiers below the Ruby) in action and must say the auto iris makes a phenominal picture, closest thing to a full on cinematic projection system.

As for others, I would wish atleast some company to come out witha line of 2.35:1 LCD Displays front 42in and up. Wishfull thinking.

~Bob

miltimj

02-12-06, 12:46 AM

this thread has a shot at the AVS record, doesn't it? does anybody know what the AVS record is?

check this one out: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=170942

i think (maybe?) Ted White of Audio Alloy notoriety might hold the record, but at the rate this thread is going, that'll fall in a month or two.

Sandman, if i was you i'd drag out the construction process a bit to make sure you geti t... :p

j/k of course

nice work
Both threads are a looong way from some of the longest:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=68&daysprune=30&order=desc&sort=views

And I'm not even sure if those are the longest.. :)

miltimj

02-12-06, 12:51 AM

Agreed, Bob. I even think it's sticky worthy..

SVonhof

02-12-06, 01:29 AM

jmorris644

02-12-06, 12:52 PM

Tryg, The Screen test Guru. Thanks for all your knowledge.
Knowing people like you and BPape is what makes one have the perfect theater.
After talking to you today on the phone, you got Me wanting to eBay my unused Optoma H-79 and getting the Ruby. I will spend this weekend reading up on the Ruby and make a final decision from there. I didn't realize the Ruby buried the Optoma like you said and being that it's 1080 and twice as bright, it should hold it's weight for a while.

Also Folks, I sent Tryg some screen samples of the weaves I liked so he can put them to the test. It will be intersting to see what results he comes up with when A & B to Screen Research and Vutecs sound Screens. So hopefully you Post the results here or start a new thread and let us know Tryg.

I will call you later.

Thanks
Ruben

OMG, OMG, OMG. This is absolutely perfect!!! I had already settled on the Ruby after seeing it and now, no offense Ruben, we will get Tryg's opinion on the screen material? Absolutely OUTSTANDING!!!!

Joe