One thing about the Ruby, it would be catchy in Rubens theater.

Ruby Ruben, Ruben Ruby, sounds like a hit song from the fiftys or sixtys

What size of screen are going for Ruben, I was all set to buy the ruby about a month ago and use it with a 120'' ClearPix2 but everyone in the hi-end projector forum said that the Ruby did not put out enough lumens to have a watchable picture on a microperf bigger than 100'' and that was with a new bulb.

This is just something to consider, I would hate to see you spend so much money on a projector that was too dim for your liking.

I will say I have seen the Ruby set up on a 92'' StudioTek and it looked awesome, only problem is 92'' inches is WAY to small for me.

I'm thinking I'm going to try the 2.35 thing without the lens first.

I know, I know, I won't be using the "full resolution" of the projector for 2.35 material. However, I will still have the large true widescreen experience and even at 2.35 it will still be higher resolution than any 720p projector (about 816p for 2.35).

Anyway, its worth a shot as it eliminates a lot of cost (scaler and lens), complexity and potential image distortions/imperfections (unless you spend as much on the scaler/lens as the ruby itself).

So, I want to go CH 2.35 on my screen, but I'm gonna try the poor man's route first.

Yeah Guys,

I did allot of Reading for the past 2 days and I am now realizing The Ruby may not be for me. Allot of people seem to be complaining about it's brightness on non gain screens and how it delivers a softer picture than a DLP and The Blacks are not as black as a DLP.

I think I'm gonna hold off for a while and see what happens with the 3 chip DLPs and just work with the H-79 for the meantime.

Lets see what this year brings us. It's only an upgrade away.

Sandman - I agree the Ruby may not be for you (due to your desired screen size) but that's the first I've heard that the blacks are lacking. The blacks are supposedly the major advantage of this projector.

On another note - if anyone has found an online source for the raw sheerweave 4000 material, can you please PM me? I have found some shade companies but you have to buy a shade and, in the size I need, you start getting to $200+. TIA

Sandman - I agree the Ruby may not be for you (due to your desired screen size) but that's the first I've heard that the blacks are lacking. The blacks are supposedly the major advantage of this projector.


Sorry guys, Let Me correct That, The Blacks were not as good as C3X LITE.
But that is a $6k more expensive PJ.

I did too much late night reading, I don't want to mislead anyone here.

Hey Maybe if My thread gets as big as Teds DIY Speaker thread I can start a Blue Glue Company :D

But right Now SandmanX is Holding down the #1 position in the Home Theater Construction Forums. Dennis Erskine ain't got nothing on me ;)

But anyway, if Your giving Out cash prizes, I'll take mine now :)

All Jokes, but Seriously, if I was to post all the pictures and descriptions of building this It would of been another 20 - 30 pages long.

Ruben

yep, like Fleetwood Mac in 1977 - top of the charts

about the cash prize, i bet those 20-30 pages of pictures may indeed be worth a cash prize... make quite a book for quite a booming (and growing) market - HT's, that is.

or a collaboration of theaters from many of you gents that have put up these big, informative threads. i can't imagine that such a book wouldn't find some market... a few different takes on theaters from a construction, style, equipment, etc. perspective. Or just one, showing all the insane work that goes into it, and how it can be done, etc. and so on. There must be 10's of thousands of DIY theaters each year...

On another note - if anyone has found an online source for the raw sheerweave 4000 material, can you please PM me? I have found some shade companies but you have to buy a shade and, in the size I need, you start getting to $200+. TIA

Instead of a PM to ebr post it in this thread. I'm sure plenty of people would like to know.

Mike

Ruben,

I know you're experimenting with painting the ShearWeave material. Have you done any research on the DIY paint mixes talked about in the DIY Screen Section of AVS? I don't know much about the mixes but I suspect that with as much research as individuals do into paint mixes anything there would be a better option than regular paint. Some of the mixes you can have made for you and some of them are sold by forum members. Goo Systems might be an option as well.

Mike

The Ruby is much brighter than the H79.

I would recommend a Higher Gain screen for both.

The H79 has a better built in scaler for constant height setups, the Ruby would need some type of external scaling. Nothing your HTPC couldn't handle. Theatertek?

Ruben,

I know you're experimenting with painting the ShearWeave material. Have you done any research on the DIY paint mixes talked about in the DIY Screen Section of AVS? I don't know much about the mixes but I suspect that with as much research as individuals do into paint mixes anything there would be a better option than regular paint. Some of the mixes you can have made for you and some of them are sold by forum members. Goo Systems might be an option as well.

Mike

Yeah, I tried a few recommendations in there and they all sucked on the weave. I was talking to Tryg and told me to try the Pearlessent and not to worry about the silver metallic paints with the weave.

Ruben

The Ruby is much brighter than the H79.

I would recommend a Higher Gain screen for both.

The H79 has a better built in scaler for constant height setups, the Ruby would need some type of external scaling. Nothing your HTPC couldn't handle. Theatertek?

Hey Tryg,

Yeah, I'm using TheaterTek 2.2 with ffdshow and dscaler Postprocessing.
I figured I will wait a bit and see what is on the horizon.

In the meantime, I will use this weave and if I want to upgrade in the future and move my speakers wider apart I will go with a Solid screen. The way I see it Now, $5,000 Acoustically Transparent Weeved Screens are not messing with this Weeve I sent you, but I will let you be the judge of that.

Either way, I liked what I saw in this weeve material and will be using it as my Accoustically Transparent Screen until I go solid (if I go solid). Also, who knows what these pearlessence paints will bring to the table.

Ruben

Gentlemen -
I found this source for the Phifer material...I've sent an email requesting a quote but as of yet have not heard back...I'll keep everyone posted...

Kevin -
rollershades.com (http://www.rollershades.com/sheerweave.php)

....

But, here's the problem there:

Pricing Note: Shaded area on the price chart indicates that fabric will be railroaded. 73"+ height will show horizontal seam near top.

The referenced shading starts over 55" in width and, as it states, over 73" in length. So, it doesn't appear you can buy a piece large enough to make the whole screen without a seam.

.....

But if enough people are interested in trying this out, I can order one big roll and ship out screens for everyone (at a cost obviously). I would just have to figure out the best way to ship it and package it. I would most likely get 98" seamless widths and cut to custom lengths. So that way a 98" x 230" 2.35:1 seamless screen would be possible as a maximum size.

I for one would be interested in this!!! As it seems the only way average joes like me can get it is by purchasing a whole shade. Let us know Sandman.

Drew

Without a doubt I am interested in a bulk purchase as well. I've been drooling at the AT screens and knew that I couldn't really allow for it in my budget, so this is worth getting now even though I won't use it for a year (I'd just get a bit extra) for that cost..

My main concern was whether I'd like it the same as you and/or not be satisfied with the PQ due to being AT instead of solid, but the two things that reassure me are that you're very picky about PQ and you've done such an amazing job thus far that I know you would pick the best. (I realize that each situation is difference, but I expect to have a very similar theater.. though not in overall detail I'm sure, but I can at least ensure I get similar dimensions/light control, etc... :)

Thanks again for the detail in your posts and your research, Ruben.

Ruben,

Congratulations to Your marvellous hometheater, it's really outstanding ! I would be also highly interested in a bulk purchase, if You don't mind, that I am European (Austria). Many thanks for Your researches too !

Dieter

....

I too would be interested in the screen material. (Probably around 15-20 feet.)

Also: I sent you a PM asking if you would PM me the address to your blog, but I see now that it may get lost in the massive amount of PMs you get, so I'm asking you here.

Thanks,
Justin

I would take 20 feet (6m) if possible, because shipping to Austria is quite expensive and is almost the same for a less amount.
BTW, I also use a H79 so our equipment is similar.

Thanks,
Dieter

Ruben,

how would you say these materials stack up against the ClearPix2?

Also do you have that link to your construction blog?

Thanks...

I'm guessing you'll have no problem getting enough people to split among 5+ rolls... :)

Do you think there would be a detrimental effect to leaving it rolled up for a year or two?

Unrelated to the screen, but do you know when your carpet will arrive/be installed?

....

For everyone that is PMing me and Asking me for a link to my personal blog.

I am in the middle of transferring it to a new blog interface due to the previous software I was using made things complicated for viewers. As soon as the transfer is complete, I will PM everyone the PMed me a Link.

Thanks
Ruben

I'm also interrested in material for a large screen. Just as GinSonic, I'm also in Europe and if there are more of us, maybe we can share the shipping charges.

Exipnos

@exipnos:

No problem, let us talk about it, when Ruben will give his OK to the transaction.
Greetings to lovely France !

Great Guys! This stuff comes in 30 Yard Rolls (90 Feet/30 Meters)
So we would need enough guys to use up a roll.
So If we can get 9 guys that want to do 10' or more wide Screens we will be all set.

Ruben

Count me in!

Now you have me doubting the Ruby :( I better do some more reading.

Joe

Great Guys! This stuff comes in 30 Yard Rolls (90 Feet/30 Meters)
So we would need enough guys to use up a roll.
So If we can get 9 guys that want to do 10' or more wide Screens we will be all set.

Ruben

Ruben,

If this goes down, please count me in for 10'.

Thanks,
Gerry

Ruben,
Great thread. Count me in as well. I will take 20' if you are able to arrange the bulk purchase.

I'm interested in a bulk purchase too since I can't find anywhere (even as a shade) that can make a piece big enough without a seam.

I would need about 48" x 108". Ruben, what do you think the cost will work out to be?

P.S. Is anyone interested in the 2000 material? That looks like it is lower gain but a lot less noticeable on the weave...

Ruben,

With the popularity of your screen material purchase, you might want to start up a new thread (another 100K+ hitter, I'm sure)

Bud

I'd definitely be interested in 10' or so.

Joseph

I will also take a 10' length of the material.

-T.Wells

Ruben,

I also would be interested in 30' - 40' of this material, so please let me know about your purchase.


Thanks,
Carlo

I have been following this thread from the beginning. Very inspiring. If you do the bulk purchase I would be in for 10'.

I'll take 10' tooo.....

What ever you find works for the H79 I'll experiment on a 10 foot wide 2:35 to compete with my Firehawk so call it 11' for fastening needs.

Put me on a group buy list.

I don't see a problem leaving this material rolled up for that long. After all, Most people use it for roll up shades.
.... Good point. :D

if the group buy pans out, i'd be interested in 10 feet.

Being in the same boat as miltimj, at least a year out from needing the screen material, I would be interested in buying the material now. I am planning on a H79 and trust Ruben research completely.

-Skipp

Hi,
I've been a silent lurker here for a while and have been following this thread.

He transformation of your theater has been inspiring. Your attention to detail is breath-taking. I came across self-closing hinges in my most recent Rockler catalog and thought of your hidden door.

Perhaps this would be a more durable alternative than using rubber bands on your moulding piece. Pnuematic soft-close hinge (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11091&SearchHandle=DADBDBDFDADADDDGGCGFDDDIGDGCDAGCCNGGDFGFDFCNDED FDBGBCNDJDHGGDDCNDIDBDEGBGDDCGDDFDBDCDGGDDADADADBDADADADBDDG DGMGPHDGJGOGHCAGIGJGOGHGFDADADADEDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBD ADADADADADADADADADADADADBDADADADBDDGDGMGPHDGJGOGHCAGIGJGOGHG FDADADADBDB&filter=closing%20hinge)

This might be a little late in coming, but it's just a thought.

I look forward to your next update.

Andy

[EDIT] Pictures taken out

.....

Saw this at the bottom of the page: http://www.phifer.com/sheer.htm

SheerWeave Special Weave Program

Can't find the perfect fabric for your decor? Using the standard warp and fill colors, you can pick your color combination, weave and openness factor, and we will create a fabric perfect for your specific needs. Small minimum runs per pattern and color. Custom openness factors available.

Been following (while drooling :D ) the progress on your theater, Ruben. Awesome!
Count me in for 12-15 feet for the screen power buy!

Andy

Awesome thread Ruben! Count me in on the phifer material for 4 yards too.
- Scott

I haven't read all the posts, so I don't know if it's been asked......
Have you goven thought to the wear and tear of two peices of wood sliding on each other? Seems it would wear the finish down pretty quick.

....

Ruben,

I remember one of your posts a little bit ago talking about the drapes. I contacted the company that I purchased some from and asked them if they would mind if I posted their information in this thread. Well, they were not only pleased to let me do so but they also told me that they now have a drape for HT purposes. :) Here is the little write-up they gave me:

Details:
Velvet Composition: Top Quality Weaved Velvet 89% Cotton 11% Poly
Weight of Fabric: 480gms./m2

Drape Details:
All Drapes Will be Lined With 100% Fine Cotton Lining.
All Drapes Will be have special Flannel Interlining For Light Insulation and Sound Insulation

Custom Sizes: Can be Ordered and will be priced as per size.

The drapes that I have, without the flannel lining, are amazing for the price. I am excited to see the flannel lined stuff. They also gave me some new wholesale pricing. If you are, or anyone else for that matter, interested in the pricing drop me a PM.

Joe

Ruben,

I remember one of your posts a little bit ago talking about the drapes. I contacted the company that I purchased some from and asked them if they would mind if I posted their information in this thread. Well, they were not only pleased to let me do so but they also told me that they now have a drape for HT purposes. :) Here is the little write-up they gave me:

Details:
Velvet Composition: Top Quality Weaved Velvet 89% Cotton 11% Poly
Weight of Fabric: 480gms./m2

Drape Details:
All Drapes Will be Lined With 100% Fine Cotton Lining.
All Drapes Will be have special Flannel Interlining For Light Insulation and Sound Insulation

Custom Sizes: Can be Ordered and will be priced as per size.

The drapes that I have, without the flannel lining, are amazing for the price. I am excited to see the flannel lined stuff. They also gave me some new wholesale pricing. If you are, or anyone else for that matter, interested in the pricing drop me a PM.

Joe

I Talked about Drapes? I must have a bad memory, I don't remember.
I know I was talking about motorized tracks. Hmmm.

I'd be interested in 10' too. Thanks!

Hi Ruben

I know you must be over whelmed. Im curious about the White Platinum. I know its impossible for you to try everything. Wondering if you had a sample of this material.
Im wondering if it does indeed have a metallic luster (gain) to it or if it is just a grey color simulating silver but not giving the same results. Enquiring minds want to know.

Keep up the good work. This is by far the best thread I have followed in a long time. Very educational. Your doing everything right :)

Thanks Sandman - I await your impressions of the other materials.

I have a suggestion for you on the "bulk purchase plan". What do you think about going out and getting a few yds of the two materials you like best and then letting us each paypal you, say $20 (or whatever you think is fair for the cost and your effort), to cut us a 24" x 36" sample and you send it to us. Then we can see and compare for ourselves. OTOH, I don't want to take away from your real project here and turn you into a screen fabric retail shop...so if you want to retract your offer, I would understand.

FYI - I finally found an online source for the raw fabric. Catch is you have to buy a whole roll... http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/

....

....

Their web interface is confusing.

Here is the 2000 series --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/SheerWeave%202000%202100.asp

and the 4000 --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/SheerWeave%204000_4100_4400.asp

You guys are slowing down his progress with all this screen talk. :D :D :D

Its killing me not being able to see updates on the theater 5-6 times a day.

Ronnie

Their web interface is confusing.

Here is the 2000 series --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/SheerWeave%202000%202100.asp

and the 4000 --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/SheerWeave%204000_4100_4400.asp

Yup. Took me a while to find these too.

....

I Talked about Drapes? I must have a bad memory, I don't remember.
I know I was talking about motorized tracks. Hmmm.

Sorry. I looked back. It was when you were first looking at 2.35:1 and thinking of using "curtains" to narrow it down when you wanted to use 16x9.

I posted the specifics in the club member deals area.

Joe

Cool, Now everyone can buy a roll for Themselves :D

Yeah, but what will each of us do with 30 yards of the stuff?

Hmmmm.......

Make a sail for a sail boat? - naw too porous
Make 10,000 fish nets?
Ruben could make a carport cover with it, now that he doesn't have a garage.

You guys are slowing down his progress with all this screen talk. :D :D :D

Its killing me not being able to see updates on the theater 5-6 times a day.

Ronnie

Hey Ronnie,

I really cant do much more until the carpet gets installed. That Should be this week sometime. So what better time than now to discuss money saving options? :D

Ruben

A WEEK WITHOUT PICS. O.M.G.... Here come the withdrawals. Time to go to my imaginary safe place (which happens to look alot the your HT... lol).

PF

man...I guess I just figured out that I'm addicted! DOH! :) PIX PIX PIX :D

I'm not sure I ever want to start/finish mine now...it's so much fun to read about it, plan it, play w/ ideas...and watch others do the same... yeah...I think I'll build mine like $50 @ a time :) yeah :)

Hey, Now You can go check out Chinadogs thread, Switheys Thread, Mark Ps thread or Ronnies thread. I'm sure they got lots more pictures coming to hold you over.

If you want, I can take some extreme close up pictures of the Stained tiles that are gonna get covered up by the rug. :D

I also have to start working on the entrance to the theater. That should begin Wednesday. Just gonna do a Marquee Entrance type thing and a Ticket booth.

Ruben

I'm all in! Can't wait.

BTW: Kinda cool that you're way down there and I'm way up here (Northern Ontario - Timmins). Great thread man!!

O.K Ruben, since you aren't doing any work on your theater for a few days maybe you can answer this question.

Which part of constructing your theater would you have considered the hardest?

I mean I am fairly handy with my hands and with your pictures and future blog to detailed description of the build I should be able to manage, but is there any part you would suggest being contracted out to someone more skilled?

like the fiber optic ceiling, Columns, walls, Veneering, etc...

I would like your input on this because who would know better than someone who has just done it!

Thanks for your time once again.

O.K Ruben, since you aren't doing any work on your theater for a few days maybe you can answer this question.

Which part of constructing your theater would you have considered the hardest?

I mean I am fairly handy with my hands and with your pictures and future blog to detailed description of the build I should be able to manage, but is there any part you would suggest being contracted out to someone more skilled?

like the fiber optic ceiling, Columns, walls, Veneering, etc...

I would like your input on this because who would know better than someone who has just done it!

Thanks for your time once again.

Hardest?
The Heavy work. Like trying to lift a double layered Dywall Wall off the floor and get it in position on Top of blue foam. This was a Stagger Studded Wall that was 16' x 8' that was movable without drywall. We had to double Drywall and GG the outer side first in order to put it against the garage door. Well we figured to lay it flat on the floor, propped up a bit and enough guys could lift it. Well we were Dead wrong. We had 4 guys (I'm a real big dude) and it would not budge. We also had no way to get any lift in position as well. So we had to cut the Wall in sections to put it in position after all that. So from that point on we made all the walls in 8 foot sections.

Some people would say doing double layer drywall on the ceiling should of been hard, but we did the smart thing and rented a drywall lift.

Here is that 16 foot wall.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/DSC05309.jpg

As far as most Tedious work:

Making the 12 star panels. I had to hand feed each fiber through a hard to find tiny hole 600 times.

As far as most time consuming:

Staining and decision Making.

Ruben

Their web interface is confusing.

Here is the 2000 series --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/SheerWeave%202000%202100.asp

and the 4000 --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/SheerWeave%204000_4100_4400.asp

If Ruben doesn't want to handle the "group buy" on this I'd be willing to do it. A few things would have to be agreed upon first:

1. 2000 series versus 4000 series (if enough interest I could do both)
2. Weave 10%, 5%, 3% (I'm leaning towards 5% but am interested in seeing the Ruben's feedback on the 3%)
3. Acceptable packaging method for shipment
4. Roll height: 63", 84", or 98" for the 4000 series........72" or 96" for the 2000 series. My thought would be to get the biggest possible for either (both?) series so that everyones situation would be covered. It might make the screen cost a bit more for each person but it's pretty insignificant. For example, on the biggest size possible 98" (4000 series) were looking at $29.84 per yard. Basically a 98" x 174" screen would cost $145 plus shipping. That's pretty cheap and BIG. Somebody check my math but I think it's right.

If there is REAL interest in this I'll do it and work out the price per inch. I've culled a lot of information on these forums for my own HT and doing this will be my contribution back to the forum members. I think the biggest hurtle to overcome will be the shipping. Any recommendations?


Mike

Although it is more expensive than some weaves I've found the Phifer Sheerweave 4000 is really good stuff. The fact that it comes in up to 98" definitaly makes it worth the extra price. most of the stuff I've found only comes in 72".

The 2000 is good too, but the 4000 has slightly better image quality, acoustically more transparent and comes in more sizes. The 2000 would make a good backing for to reduce lightloss.

the 2000 material may work better for people who experience moire with the 4000 material. It is almost identical to the Vutec product

Its THX (Tryg Hoff Xcited) certified as far as I'm concerned.

Bravo Ruben!

tyrg, how would you compare it to the quality of the Screen Research ClearPix2?

.....

Tryg,

Which of the fabrics would you suggest for a CRT projector? It's an 8" with 1200 peak lumens (don't know the ANSI figures). Do you know the approximate gain is with these fabrics?

Thanks,

-Jimmy

Wow, great news. I wonder if they perform differently (2000 vs 4000) based on native resolution of a digital projector, or if the 4000 (according to Tryg) is better with both 720p and 1080p, for example.

Mike, I don't think you'll have difficulty getting enough people.. perhaps start a different thread and post a template for what you'd like everyone to post as their preferences. Perhaps there will be enough that custom bulk purchasing can be done. For example, I would want the 4000 (5%) at 98" high by 18 ft, and the same size of the 4100 in black. If there are enough people that want the same thing, you can group them together.. but there may be plenty of people who want a different type of screen.. obviously if there aren't enough, perhaps they group into their second choice (e.g. bigger than they expected).

Ruben, glad to hear your carpet is coming soon!

....

Sounds great, Ruben. I still would suggest starting a different thread for this... Otherwise it turns into a combination of a phenomenal home theater build and a Demo DVD request thread.. (I'm sure you've seen it)

I wonder if somebody will put MM (Mississippi Mud) on an SMX (SandManX) screen.. ;)

Thanks Mike, I will take care of the Group Buy for now Since it's My Thread and My Findings, after all it's the least I could do :)

Ruben

No offense Ruben, but I had mentioned that I was testing this fabric (the 2000 and 4800 series) in my DIY screen thread 2-3 weeks before you ever posted about it and another forum member had posted that he had tested it over 2 months before me in the Vutec screen thread. I give credit to you for the extensive postings and reviews of it, but to say you discovered it is another issue. No hard feelings :) , I'm glad that someone has finally proven there was a great diy acoustically transparent screen, which was my goal also.

I'm all in! Can't wait.

BTW: Kinda cool that you're way down there and I'm way up here (Northern Ontario - Timmins). Great thread man!!

Yeah, but you probably NEED your garage!! :D

I think this is going to be a really big thread. :D

Ok Folks, If you are interested in getting Samples of This material,
Please Email Me (screen@loutrixrecords.com) your Name and Address and I will respond to your email with Instructions.

Thanks Mike, I will take care of the Group Buy for now Since it's My Thread and My Findings, after all it's the least I could do :) If this becomes too overwelming, I will hand the duties over to the next man. I should Be good for the first few rolls. Considering I have all the tools to cut this and prepare it, I should be fine. I will look on the U-Line site for packing Materials.

We need to give This material a Screen Name. How about SMX?
We can have the SMX 2000 and SMX 4000 :D

Ruben

I also believe most of us are going to want a black version also of whatever screen we end up choosing. hate to double your work Ruben. :)

AND a good way to fasten it both sheets of material!

In deference to the other folks who were testing the screen material before you, how about a 'neutral name' like ECS (El Cheapo Screen) or GDS (Great Deal Screen) or your original BGS (Blue Goo Screen)??

Just a thought...

How about "GFATS Material"?
(Great Find Acoustically Transparent Screen)

About shipping... Ruben, does this material fold well? Or will it crease?
I know we hate to fold screens but it may be more cost effective than shipping a 98-inch + tube or carton. Just a thought.

Andy

In deference to the other folks who were testing the screen material before you, how about a 'neutral name' like ECS (El Cheapo Screen) or GDS (Great Deal Screen) or your original BGS (Blue Goo Screen)??

Just a thought...

Naw, Give Ruben the credit. Does anyone remember who really invented the lightbulb? Edison was just the guy that patented it. ;)

I think SMX would be just fine. :cool:

For the Canadians who are following tis thread I checked with Covers Bed and Bath and they will sell Sheerweave by the foot. I believe it is only the 4000 line they carry at 10% openness. I don't have the details in front of me here at work but if I remember correctly it come in 52" or 84" widths and sells for $16 /ft for the 52" and $23 for the 84" widths. They also have the black weave as well.

My numbers may be a bit off but I was glad to see I could buy the material locally, and by the foot!

Are most of you guys going to be using this screen for an outdoor application?! The reason I ask is that it seems to me that a lot of you are wanting quite a bit of this stuff. (10' , 14', 18') If the roll is 98", I would think that you'd only need about 6' or so. Or is it for making more than one screen?!
Am I missing something?

Sean

No outdoor screen. I plan on a 2.35 CH screen at 51 x 120-ish. So need just over 10 feet for mounting purposes. The 64" roll would be perfect for me but the conscientious is leaning to the 98" roll probably for those doing smaller 16x9 screens. That way they only need a couple yards.

For the Canadians who are following tis thread I checked with Covers Bed and Bath and they will sell Sheerweave by the foot. I believe it is only the 4000 line they carry at 10% openness. I don't have the details in front of me here at work but if I remember correctly it come in 52" or 84" widths and sells for $16 /ft for the 52" and $23 for the 84" widths. They also have the black weave as well.

My numbers may be a bit off but I was glad to see I could buy the material locally, and by the foot!


Hokey Smokes! :eek:
I hope you mean by the yard not foot! A whole 30 yard (90 foot) roll of the 4000 series in 84" is ony $735 USD at the above linked wholesale outlet.

Dollar conversion or not that would be an incredible mark-up!

Yes it's just as good as the SR product assuming it doesn't moire. SR has a non perpendicular weave to reduce this BUT any screen surface with a regular pattern/weave can moire.

All vinyl coated weave products like this perform just as good. And there are plenty in the marketplace. They are used for everything from oudoor appolstry to sunshading.

my loose eyeball estimates are:

4000 = .9- 1 gain
2000 = .8-.9 gain

virtually the same? yes but under tight scrutiny the 4000 is a bit brighter. They are both worthy performers as well as the Soltice 86-2044.

Are they gods gift to screen materials? not really, but they perform admirably and have a good price point for the DIYer. Campared to SR products it's a no brainer.

These materials compare favorably to a standard matte white screen. Screens with an optical coating can still outperform them. If your mission is to get an acoustically transparent screen I think these are worthy performers.

No offense Ruben, but I had mentioned that I was testing this fabric (the 2000 and 4800 series) in my DIY screen thread 2-3 weeks before you ever posted about it and another forum member had posted that he had tested it over 2 months before me in the Vutec screen thread. I give credit to you for the extensive postings and reviews of it, but to say you discovered it is another issue. No hard feelings :) , I'm glad that someone has finally proven there was a great diy acoustically transparent screen, which was my goal also.

And is this the fabric you went with ultimately? If not why?

No offense to all of you. These materials have been known and available for years. :)

I noticed there was some mention of backing this material with some of the similiar weave material in black.

Would this impact the "openess" factor?

Would it be better to back this screen material with speaker cloth?

Curious to hear some thoughts on backing strategies.

-Gerry

I noticed there was some mention of backing this material with some of the similiar weave material in black.

Would this impact the "openess" factor?

Would it be better to back this screen material with speaker cloth?

Curious to hear some thoughts on backing strategies.

-Gerry And if so maybe white grille cloth to help with the dimness from light pass through?
Just thinking out loud

No offense to all of you. These materials have been known and available for years. :) If thats the case , why has it not been covered to the extent it has here? If its the same as Clearpix , the DIY screen forums would have one post as to what to use for an audio screen. I searched for a month about this 6 months ago and Dazian was all that ever came up.

....

....

.....

....

And if so maybe white grille cloth to help with the dimness from light pass through?
Just thinking out loud

From what I understand about the backing is that it helps contrast levels as well as light loss. I think that's why black is the color in vogue.

At the end of the Day, we all benefit here. We just saved you a fortune!

And that's what these forums are all about; mutual benefit from one's own exerperience... :)

Sounds great, Ruben. I still would suggest starting a different thread for this... Otherwise it turns into a combination of a phenomenal home theater build and a Demo DVD request thread.. (I'm sure you've seen it)


It's True, For everyone that wishes to discuss this Screen Material lets move it over to my original DIY Screen Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7130397#post7130397)



Thanks
Ruben

Thanks for being civil, I've been worried all day that my post sounded a little harsh. Actually, as far as the name is concerned, I liked your original name for it. I though it had a nice ring :) .

I had also pmed Tryg for info before I took up the testing, I was initially looking for the fabric that he posted about that had the cross weave, but he couldn't remember the source.

The main reason I haven't been posting much info on my thread is that I've been waiting for all my samples to come in (my vutec sample, which will be a staple for comparison finally came in a couple days ago, and in the process of waiting I've been ordering other fabrics. I would like to post comparisons all at the same time with all the fabrics, that way I don't lead people in the wrong direction.

I must applaud you, though, as you have a really fine thread going here, and I'm glad you started testing these fabrics also, because with your amount of posting history compared to mine you will definately help add credibility to these tests.

Non Taken. Tryg knew about this stuff before all of us here. He was the one that brought it up in the Vutec Thread. But it never went beyond that. I even PMed him on why he didn't persue testing it. This was around the time I was messing around with it and I was curious as to why he didn't do a shootout with it.

At the end of the Day, we all benefit here. We just saved you a fortune!

Ruben

........Since it's My Thread and My Findings........

Capitalized for emphasis??? ;)

No problem, just trying to help spread the workload. If it becomes too much my offer still stands.

Mike

....

Ruben, love the thread. I've learned a ton and you've convinced me to start my HT project. I'm doing a garage renovation like yours, but due to a heavy travel schedule and lack of skills, I'm hiring custom installer/builder to do the project. I was wondering if you had an update on the project costs to this point? I would like to compare what you've spent to his proposal.

Thanks,
Marty

Ruben,

I think the phrase everyone is thinking about is Tipping Point. That point at which a critical mass is reached to effect a shift or change. You are it my friend.

Ruben...

I've been lurking here for a few weeks as well, taking copious notes. You're an inspiration. I should be into my own HT building mode by late this year. Many of my preliminary sketches have been tossed, replaced shamelessly by your design.

The whole screen research thread is a killer, too. I can picture a scene with all these screen manufacturers and dealers seated around a large conference table, a Godfather figure at the head of the table:

"So what do we do about this Sandman guy?"

"Maybe just ignore him? If we stay real quiet, perhaps he'll just go away."

"Isn't it obvious? The man's disovered our secret. He has to be silenced. Give the job to Luca Brasi."

Hehe. Anyway, as I said in an email to you, if your tests confirm your hypothesis, I'd love 12 feet of whatever material floats your boat.

One other thing: how is your light tray framed out? Is it 3/4 MDF under that veneer? It appears that the bottom of it is attached to the soffet at it's outside edge, but how is the vertical piece and the rest of the horizontal piece supported along the run?

Keep up the great work.

And if some fish wrapped in a piece of micro-perf show up at your doorstep, run.

Chip Hayes

:D chip :D

:D chip :D

Chip says, "And if some fish wrapped in a piece of micro-perf show up at your doorstep, run."

LOL - as a fan of both this thread (awesome, inspiring work) and the diy screen thread, Chip's quote above is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

Thanks to both you Gentlemen...

Mike

I just emailed Ruben to be put on the list. There is so much information in this thread, its pretty amazing to say the least. My second HT will be started by the end of the summer (hopefully) once our new house is built and I know I will be using this thread for help, thanks!

I just emailed Ruben to be put on the list. There is so much information in this thread, its pretty amazing to say the least. My second HT will be started by the end of the summer (hopefully) once our new house is built and I know I will be using this thread for help, thanks!

Sounds just like my current situation. Our New home is supposed to be finished in June/July. So hopefully that will be the start of my Home Theater Build. I also want to get a screen from Ruben, so maybe we can swap some ideas when we start?

.....

I just want to know whats up with your carpets? I've lost track as to when it was being installed. I thought this week? I've gotten lost in all the screen talk!

Bud

I just want to know whats up with your carpets? I've lost track as to when it was being installed. I thought this week? I've gotten lost in all the screen talk!

Bud

Good question, let me call them Now!

Ruben

Sounds just like my current situation. Our New home is supposed to be finished in June/July. So hopefully that will be the start of my Home Theater Build. I also want to get a screen from Ruben, so maybe we can swap some ideas when we start?

For sure I will have a construction thread once I start on my build. I have already started laying out the room from my house blueprints. I feel the same way to document and post progress as it might someone just like it helped me along the way. That's the greatest thing about AVS forum.

Good question, let me call them Now!

Ruben

The Carpet People wanted to install on the 28th :(
But I talked them Into installing it this Saturday :)

So This Saturday I can Start Bringing the chairs In The Room!
We are getting close!

I got to prepare the room so the installers don't Scratch up up my wood work. They are suppose to be real high End installers (they do the Installations for Macy's). But I seen that movie with Richard Pryor called "Moving" too many Times :D

Ruben

Ruben, If you would like to laugh a bit I have a story for ya... Yesterday I tried getting a quote on what an Installer would charge me to build your room. I sent him a picure of the renders and told him basically what I wanted and said I would provide all of the material. His reply was:

Dont worry about the material, just let me know what you want and I will get it all for you! This way it will be less stress to you. By the looks of the renders and materials you suggested you were going to be using I would give you a ballpark estimate of anywhere between {$60,000 - $75,000} for the room construction...

When I replied, I have seen this room built already for roughly $15-20,000 and I dont think 3-4 weeks labour is worth $40,000 to $55,000, he replied with:

Well by that estimate I can tell you the room wasn't done right! I just laughed and decided to go another route. I am just going to hire a normal carpenter to do all of your fine woodwork, And I will handle all the Electrical, GOMing and Drywall.
Then call some carpet installers and be done with it.

Hell for his price I could fly you and a few friends to Ottawa! lol

Thanks to your thread I may have saved TONS of money, so Thank you...

P.S any updates on when you will have your Construction Blog ready so I can use it as a starting point?

Ruben, If you would like to laugh a bit I have a story for ya... Yesterday I tried getting a quote on what an Installer would charge me to build your room. I sent him a picure of the renders and told him basically what I wanted and said I would provide all of the material. His reply was:

Dont worry about the material, just let me know what you want and I will get it all for you! This way it will be less stress to you. By the looks of the renders and materials you suggested you were going to be using I would give you a ballpark estimate of anywhere between {$60,000 - $75,000} for the room construction...

When I replied, I have seen this room built already for roughly $15-20,000 and I dont think 3-4 weeks labour is worth $40,000 to $55,000, he replied with:

Well by that estimate I can tell you the room wasn't done right! I just laughed and decided to go another route. I am just going to hire a normal carpenter to do all of your fine woodwork, And I will handle all the Electrical, GOMing and Drywall.
Then call some carpet installers and be done with it.

Hell for his price I could fly you and a few friends to Ottawa! lol

Thanks to your thread I may have saved TONS of money, so Thank you...

P.S any updates on when you will have your Construction Blog ready so I can use it as a starting point?

Did you also inform them that the room was constructed with Stagger Studded Walls, Double Layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue inbetween. And 3 Layers of 5/8" Dywall on the Ceiling with GG as Well. Over 90 Sheets of Drywall hung (hopefully never again) :D

The problem is that you probably mentioned the word "home theater" and dollar signs popped into his eyeballs. Like you said, its probably better to be your own gen contractor and just hire subs for each individual process.

I just remembered, after reading through every post in the last couple days, did anyone mention or figure out who your friend was? I LOL'd when I saw his hat, gonna have this theater in any movies in the future???

Did you also inform them that the room was constructed with Stagger Studded Walls, Double Layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue inbetween. And 3 Layers of 5/8" Dywall on the Ceiling with GG as Well. Over 90 Sheets of Drywall hung (hopefully never again) :D

Actually I did tell him all of this except for the 3 layers of drywall on the ceiling, I thought there was only 2.

But I also said I would provide all of the materials, this was just a labor job. When someone tells you they want 75K to finish 1 room I think they are nuts unless it was made out of gold! lol

The funny thing is he most likely did hear the words "home theater" and thought "ching ching $$$" lets see how much I can get.

I have looked into another carpenter and he gave me a much better quote, I will be going with him. I have a friend who is an electrician and my uncle is a painter/ Drywall installer so that just leaves me with the GOM. I am going to use rives audio for the acoustic Design of my room since my audio/video calibrator works for them and I am going to get all of my acoustic materials from Bpape.

Any word on the blog, It would be much much appreciated.

Actually I did tell him all of this except for the 3 layers of drywall on the ceiling, I thought there was only 2.

But I also said I would provide all of the materials, this was just a labor job. When someone tells you they want 75K to finish 1 room I think they are nuts unless it was made out of gold! lol

The funny thing is he most likely did hear the words "home theater" and thought "ching ching $$$" lets see how much I can get.

I have looked into another carpenter and he gave me a much better quote, I will be going with him. I have a friend who is an electrician and my uncle is a painter/ Drywall installer so that just leaves me with the GOM. I am going to use rives audio for the acoustic Design of my room since my audio/video calibrator works for them and I am going to get all of my acoustic materials from Bpape.

Any word on the blog, It would be much much appreciated.

If You want, I can just come up there and Build it for you. :)
I'll take the Money. :D

Ruben

But I also said I would provide all of the materials, this was just a labor job. When someone tells you they want 75K to finish 1 room I think they are nuts unless it was made out of gold! lol

The funny thing is he most likely did hear the words "home theater" and thought "ching ching $$$" lets see how much I can get.
That's funny. I had a contractor tell me it would cost $90,000 to finish my basement (1,700+ sq ft). Nothing special at all, no HT, no audio/video distribution, just to finish framing, normal wiring, drywall, etc. I just need to figure out what I'm going to do with that extra $65-70,000 I'm saving! :p

BTW Ruben, awesome looking room! My wife grew up in Boca/Coral Springs area. Her family lives in West Palm Beach, so next time I'm down there, I just may have to "be in the neighborhood" and check this place out. The wood and veneer really sets you room apart from the others. I'm planning to have a lot of wood and similar look, and just hope it turns out half as nice as yours!

Jerrod, not to take away from Ruben's theater page, but I took a look at your web site for your theater. Dude, it's taking a while to get your basement done! Wow!

BTW, I looked at your overall plans for the basement and you may need to reconsider the wine cellar location if you need to do any cooling in there. The reason I say that is I have looked into a wine cellar and for the cooling units (unless you get one to vent to outside, which is lots more money) you need to be able to vent to a room that is at least the same size as the cellar. In my case, that just can't happen, so I would need to vent to outside. If you don't need cooling, then just make sure you don't attach your racking to the wall unless you do offset stud configuration, since you don't want vibration getting to your wine, that is one of the things that can ruin good wine (the other three being light, heat and moisture).

$90 000????? Good lord, what are they making the frames out of? Rare african Timbers?? I could probably do it for $10-15k. (Ok, I should get some timbre estimates on timbre prices, but I built a 12x21.5 ft deck for ~$1500.)

Jerrod, not to take away from Ruben's theater page, but I took a look at your web site for your theater. Dude, it's taking a while to get your basement done! Wow!

BTW, I looked at your overall plans for the basement and you may need to reconsider the wine cellar location if you need to do any cooling in there. The reason I say that is I have looked into a wine cellar and for the cooling units (unless you get one to vent to outside, which is lots more money) you need to be able to vent to a room that is at least the same size as the cellar. In my case, that just can't happen, so I would need to vent to outside. If you don't need cooling, then just make sure you don't attach your racking to the wall unless you do offset stud configuration, since you don't want vibration getting to your wine, that is one of the things that can ruin good wine (the other three being light, heat and moisture).
Yeah, not to hijack things, but thanks for reminding me how long it's taking! :) Besides re-working my HVAC, I've done everything else by myself and it just takes time. I travel for work, have a young daughter, play bass guitar in a band, have numerous other projects around the house, etc.... For the wine cellar, it's just a pie in the sky right now. It will be small (4x5 maybe).....

A small cellar is better than none at all if you love wine! We ended up getting a 110 bottle free-standing unit for now and if the stocks go back up, we may end up doing a real cellar, but my wifes ideas would be that it would be large enough for 4 people to be in and have a little table for cheese and pouring..... Installation wouldn't be bad though as I can do most of it.

Update:

The Carpet installers called me and confirmed they will be coming around 12pm EST tomorrow. I also started installing the Equipment in the Rack and Snaked through a few more wires I had recently got (Good Thing for those Conduits) :)

I also got 4 Full Size Rolls of Screen Material to test tonight. I posted a Picture In my Screen thread.

Ruben

And ya got 5 or 6 screens, looks like Sunday night at the Movies to me, Does anyone else expect any less from Ruben?

Ruben...

Going through your thread again, I had a couple of questions (and one I asked in an earlier post, but whcih was probably lost among the rest of my blathering):

- Have you decided on what anamorphic lens to use yet?

- You've said how good the picture looks when running via your HTPC and its software processing. When you play a movie via your Sony or other DVD player, are you using any processing? Or just going from DVD to projector, and letting the H79 do it's thing?

- I've grasped the constant height theory, as far as the 2.35 and the 16:9 stuff goes. What about the showing old classics in 1.33? Do you need to use the H79 zoom to get CH with that format?

- Are you planning a masking system at all for the screen sides?

- And finally, my light tray question: How is that framed out? I assume it's MDF underneath that veneer, and I see that the lower, horizontal piece appears attached at its edge to the bottom of the soffet. But how is the vertical piece and the length of the run supported?

Thanks for helping illuminate a novice...

Chip

Update:

The Carpet installers called me and confirmed they will be coming around 12pm EST tomorrow. I also started installing the Equipment in the Rack and Snaked through a few more wires I had recently got (Good Thing for those Conduits) :)

I also got 4 Full Size Rolls of Screen Material to test tonight. I posted a Picture In my Screen thread.

Ruben

The Carpet people rescheduled for Tomorrow morning. :(
Oh well, 1 more day.

Ruben

Ruben...

Going through your thread again, I had a couple of questions (and one I asked in an earlier post, but whcih was probably lost among the rest of my blathering):

- Have you decided on what anamorphic lens to use yet?

- You've said how good the picture looks when running via your HTPC and its software processing. When you play a movie via your Sony or other DVD player, are you using any processing? Or just going from DVD to projector, and letting the H79 do it's thing?

- I've grasped the constant height theory, as far as the 2.35 and the 16:9 stuff goes. What about the showing old classics in 1.33? Do you need to use the H79 zoom to get CH with that format?

- Are you planning a masking system at all for the screen sides?

- And finally, my light tray question: How is that framed out? I assume it's MDF underneath that veneer, and I see that the lower, horizontal piece appears attached at its edge to the bottom of the soffet. But how is the vertical piece and the length of the run supported?

Thanks for helping illuminate a novice...

Chip

>- Have you decided on what anamorphic lens to use yet?<

I'm still researching the options, but I am considering the Prismasonic.

>- You've said how good the picture looks when running via your HTPC and its software processing. When you play a movie via your Sony or other DVD player, are you using any processing? Or just going from DVD to projector, and letting the H79 do it's thing?<

Just running it Straight for now.

>- I've grasped the constant height theory, as far as the 2.35 and the 16:9 stuff goes. What about the showing old classics in 1.33? Do you need to use the H79 zoom to get CH with that format?<

I still have to cross that bridge.

>- Are you planning a masking system at all for the screen sides?<

Possibly

>- And finally, my light tray question: How is that framed out? I assume it's MDF underneath that veneer, and I see that the lower, horizontal piece appears attached at its edge to the bottom of the soffet. But how is the vertical piece and the length of the run supported?<

That's all been explained a couple times a few Pages back in This thread. Just Look for a Picture of the Soffit, then read. For the Most part it's made out of MDF and 2 x 2's.

Ruben

... I've grasped the constant height theory, as far as the 2.35 and the 16:9 stuff goes. What about the showing old classics in 1.33? Do you need to use the H79 zoom to get CH with that format?


1.33 and 16x9 are a constant height on the disc, so no special treatment (other than larger side masking) would be necessary...right?

ebr,
I think you are right. If you remove the anamorphic lens (or switch it to pass-through mode), you get constant height for 16:9 and 1.33. You shouldn't have to use any zoom or scaling.

That sounds like what I've read too. Now the question is whether or not to get an automated lens and have the HTPC control it.

keep on truckin'

Brian

If you can afford the expense, the automated H-1200 prismasonic is a great option it seems.

By the way, you're both/all right that you simply use the passthrough mode for 1.33 and 1.78 material, just as if you didn't have a lens (since that's essentially what passthrough is) :)

I can't wait to see how your room looks with the carpet, Ruben!

Guys, I don't know if those Berklines I bought are going to work out for me.

Around 3pm or so it was nice and Sunny I sat in the Berkliner I had on my Pool table just to See how comfortable it was...

...Next thing I know Its Dark and 9pm. I lost 6 hours of my day sitting in it, I fell into a deep coma. The thing is so comfortable I swore I was sleeping in my bed.

This is going to be really bad. I can see it now, I don't think I'm ever going to get past the DVD Menu sitting In these chairs.

Ruben

This is going to be really bad. I can see it now, I don't think I'm ever going to get past the DVD Menu sitting In these chairs.

Ruben

I heard there is an option from Berkline that has a sensor to monitor occupants alertness and if they doze off, there are hidden electrodes to deliver a jolt. Might want to check into that!

I can't wait to see how your room looks with the carpet, Ruben!

I would imagine it's gonna look like the Renders :D

I would imagine it's gonna look like the Renders :D
Heh, unfortunately, Chirpie fights an uphill, losing battle with rendering. There's no way he can make the renders look as good as you make the room look.. (despite his fantastic job rendering) :D

I Got a ton of emails and PMs this past month asking me about the Column building and Staining Process. So since there is no real receent updates on my theater until the carpet gets installed, I will post this more detailed info on the column construction and staining process for everyone who asked...

The Columns, what can I say? They started off being regular Square columns and once we got them attached to the wall, I realized I didn't like them, they were intrusive and plain. I'm the kind of guy that likes different things. By Doing the square plain columns, I was not being different I was just following the steps of mostly everyone else. So we ended up tearing the square columns down and started with a whole new idea.

Good By Old, Hello New!
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/Columns-Crushed.jpg

So I went back to the Drawing board and put together a new Idea based on having a round column. I went to the Local Wood Specialty Shop and picked up a 24" Half Round to see how it would look as a column. When I got it in the Room it was way too big. So I knew I needed a Smaller half round. I then searched for an 18" half round but No one carried them locally and they were $160 each plus shipping to get them from out of state. So I ended up finding some 8" quarter rounds, I figured if I can Glue to 8" quarter rounds together, I would have a 16" Half Round. So we put 2 8" quarter rounds together and the size was good.

Next Problem was, the 16" half round wasn't deep enough and looked rather puney in the theater. So we needed to beef it up a bit by bringing it out forward more. The idea of the Columns is to look like they are supporting the Soffits and the half round by itself didn't look like it was supporting anything. So we fixed this by adding a box to the back of the Half round to bring it out forward more. Now it was in proportion to the room and Soffits.

Here is the New column Design I did in photoshop.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/0-704122.jpg

Here is what the Columns started off as. These are 8" Quarter Rounds. Someone may ask "why didn't you just buy Half Rounds?" It's because Half rounds were nowhere to be found Locally in the size I wanted. I found a few places in NY, WA and Cali that Carried them, but they were around $160.00 each plus shipping for 96" 18" Half Rounds. These 8" Quarter rounds were $45.00 each and were in stock at Specialty by my house.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/quarter-rounds.jpg


We Built a quick Jig on the Stage and Platform using screws an spacing them 16" apart to hold the 2 8" quarter rounds together. We used Pro-Bond Glue and 1" Staples to tie the 2 quarters together.

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/DSC06378.jpg

Once the glue dried over Night, we added a 1" x 2" strip inside the column over the Seam for More Support.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/column-sanded-2.jpg


Next, we had to smooth out that seam in the front where the 2 quarters butt together. So we first sanded down the Seam and then added a quick coat of Bondo
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/bondo-column.jpg

After a half hour, Sand that bondo down to smooth it out and Sand the rest of the column to make Sure it has no bumps on it. You don't want a bump under your Veneer.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/column-sanded-1.jpg


All Sanded and Ready for Veneer.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/column-sanded.jpg


Measure and Cut your Veneer...
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/cut-veneer.jpg


Here is the Glue we use to attach the Veneer
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/veneer-glue.jpg

Here is the spray gun we use to apply the glue to the Veneer. A spray gun is not necessary but it makes the job faster instead of having to dip the roller in glue every 2 seconds.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/spray-gun.jpg

Fill the Gun with the Glue and do some test spray patterns on a scrap of wood or Cardboard.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/fill-gun.jpg

Spray the glue on the Column First.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/spray-veneer-on.jpg


Then Smooth it out and spread it on with a Special roller for Veneer Glue or Contact cement...
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/roll-glue-on.jpg

Then Spray and roll the Veneer Glue on the back of the Veneer.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/glue-veneer-back.jpg


Let Glue set for like 10 minutes or until it is almost not tacky then cover glued veneer back with Craft Paper to protect it while putting it on the Column or whatever your applying the veneer to. The Craft Paper helps make sure you don't accidentally put the veneer on in the wrong place. Once this sticks it is Stuck forever
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/add-paper.jpg


Put veneer on Column with craft paper in between. Adjust position of veneer on column.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/adjust-veneer.jpg


Once adjusted remove paper from one Side and press veneer down against column making Sure there is no air bubbles and smoothing it out from inside out. Then gradually remove the rest of the paper as you work your way around the rest of the Column. Make sure there is no air Bubbles.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/remove-paper.jpg


Next, Use your Hard roller to compress the veneer onto the column using pressure. This roller makes sure your Veneer is flat against your Wood without any air bubbles. The harder you press, the less likely you will have any air bubbles...
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/hard-rolling.jpg


Next, Trim off all your Excess veneer using a utility knife or a Laminate trimmer
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/trimming.jpg

After you trim off your excess Veneer, do a light sanding to the edges you trimmed off to smooth them Out.
Then sand the whole Veneer to prep it for Sealer and Stain. Then Wallah! Your all Finished Veneering.
http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneering/finished.jpg
We Created our Guide by Gluing 3 thin sheets of wood together and clamping them down to the Column Over Night. Once the glue Drys we should have a Half round Guide to Use for all our routering and cuts.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06479-744744.jpg

Next Morning, we unclamped the wood that we glued together the previous night and Wallah, we have our guide that is perfectly rounded to the radius of the columns.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06483-740220.jpg

Here is the Jig we put together for our router. We used a cheap router to do this because basically your screwing screws through the wood into the router plate.

We created this jig out of a scrap piece of the quarter rounds we used for the columns. The other side of the wood is flat, this side is rough. We made this jig to maintain a constant even depth around the column. The smooth side of this jig will line up with the guide we made to keep our lines straight and even. Without this jig, the router would be moving up and down, back and forth around the column, which would call for a terrible result.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06520-736101.jpg

Next, we clamped down the column to the work table. If the column would even slightly slide while Routering, we could mess up the routered line and would have to rebuild a whole new column.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06525-732804.jpg

Next, we took all our measurements down and clamped the guide in place. The router jig has a 2.25" offset, so we had to figure that in to all our measurements.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06527-729173.jpg

Next, Adjust the Depth of your Router Bit. This Shot shows how the Jig conforms with the Columns radius.

We Basically routered into the wood a little under a half inch with a half inch straight bit. Between the Brace inside the Column and the Strength of the wood being curved, there was no way this was gonna break apart.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06529-725209.jpg

Here we Go! Making sure the Jig on the Router is flush with the Guide we made, we begin routering out our first inset.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06530-721168.jpg
Close up, Half done...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06531-717826.jpg

Another Shot

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06532-712558.jpg

Three Quarters Done...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06533-705181.jpg

Another View...
Notice the Router Jig flush against the Guide...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06536-704334.jpg

There You Go, Our First inset complete. Straight and smooth as an arrow.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06535-710501.jpg

We Re-adjusted the Guide for the Next inset and began routering it...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06545-700399.jpg

There you Go, Both insets complete. All they need is a light sanding and they will be ready to be finished.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06548-793778.jpg

As we work our way down the Column we get all our insets done.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06550-790662.jpg

Here are the completed routered columns. They still need to be cut to size and get the middle cut out for internal Speaker placement.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06560-783925.jpg

Here is a Last Close up Shot of the Routered insets before sanding.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06567-779794.jpg

Here is a Column Box. This Box will go behind the Half rounds against the wall. It is made out of Particle board. As you can see above, the reddish brown stuff on the stop sides is Bondo. We use this to smooth out the cracks so the Veneer goes over it smoothly.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06486-718490.jpg

Sanding down the bondo on the column box. Have to make Sure it's all smoothed out.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06490-713837.jpg

Routering corners...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06501-707223.jpg
We routered the Sharp corners down so the wood Veneer can wrap around it nicely.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06499-700281.jpg

Blowing off all the Dust from Sanding and Routering. Next comes Glue than Veneer.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06505-785624.jpg

Column Boxes all Done and Veneered. Only the edges get veneered because the middle gets covered with a Half round column.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06511-764191.jpg

Cutting and routering all these peices for these columns took about 3 days and created the biggest saw dust mess (as you will see on the following pages). Thoughout those 3 days we had to make some serious changes to the columns. One change was make the Rear box that the half rounds attach to less wide. We cut the width of the boxes down from 24" wide to 20" wide. Basically we had to remove a 4" strip inside the center of the Box and glue and screw the 2 Pieces of the box back together again. After that we glued and Screwed our Half round pieces to the Box.

Then we had to make the speaker grills taller due to addressing reflection issues with the room. I changed the Column design around the time my Audio Consultant Bryan Pape went on Christmas Vacation. Originally, we had set up the columns to have a 16" grill up high and routered all our insets around the future grill placement. When Bryan got back and saw the new design, he informed me that my 16" grill wasn't going to work for the reflection points so we had to make it lower to the floor to address reflections at ear level.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/10-790111.jpg

Here are the completed Columns. We cut the center of the Column out to use as the frame to make the Grills for them. In this picture, the middle piece is already cut out but is sitting in place.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/1-712779.jpg

Here is the column with the middle piece removed.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/2-709143.jpg

Here is the Middle piece we removed off the column. You will notice lines drew out on it for our cuts to make the Grill.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/3-705489.jpg

Here is that middle Piece in the previous picture all ready to go. We cut it on a table saw and painted it flat black. Now it's time to wrap it with some GoM fabric.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/4-702062.jpg

Stapling that fabric down to see how it looks and conforms to the frame.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/5-798469.jpg

Trimming that excess Fabric of the inside.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/6-708911.jpg

And here is the Grill in the Column. Perfect Fit! We may put some metal grill behind the fabric to make it more solid. It's a real lot of cloth with nothing behind it, and a hand leaning against it could stretch it out.

If your wondering why we did such a big grill on these columns, it was for 2 reasons. One was because of the reflection points of the room. These 2 front columns will be filled with Cotton to serve as bass traps and also treat the first reflection points of the room. The Second reason is, the Martin Logan Scripts that we will be using inside these 4 Back Columns are 44" tall x 10" wide x 7" deep.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/7-705057.jpg
Another Angle.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/8-701913.jpg

A Shot from the Platform.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/9-794885.jpg

This was not the Color I ended up going with. I posted this only for explaining purposes.

Here is how we Stained the Veneer Columns and Light Trays.

First you have to prepare the Veneer for the Stain, we do this by first sanding the veneer with a 120 Grit Sandpaper and then a 220 Grit. When done sanding, you want to remove all Sawdust off the veneer. We use a compressed air and cheesecloth to remove all Dust.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06696-768375.jpg

For Stain, we used ML Campbell WoodSong 2 Microton Spray stain (WS2 M307 Red). This is a fast drying stain that doesn't need to be wiped off (drys in 5 minutes).

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06228-753266.jpg

Make Sure you gun is clean before putting stain in. We used 100% Stain, but you can also thin it down with thinner to get a different result.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06698-761546.jpg

Do a test Pattern on some scrap and adjust your airflow and Pattern to the sprayer. The trick to getting an even finish is to use allot of air and Mist the Stain/tint on. We use a full pattern spray.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06701-755285.jpg

Do a Quick Safety blow of air over your workpiece to ensure there is no Dust, then begin Spraying in even Distant strokes. Up and down is what we did here. The Red in the Pictures came out Really Red Looking, even though thats not the color. So don't mind the color.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06705-747297.jpg

Almost Done with first coat.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06706-743223.jpg

Now a quick second coat.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06707-714792.jpg
Make sure you don't cut your wrists :D

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06714-772286.jpg

Or this can happen to you :D

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06715-769182.jpg

After Staining, clean your sprayer out Good. We are using Wood Alcohol Solvent here to clean it.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06717-765030.jpg

Now it's time for a clear coat. We are using a Satin ML Campbell Magnalac Precatalyzed Lacquer (C144 14 Satin-35)

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06720-760136.jpg

Once that first coat of clear hits the stain, the stain darkens up and pops out greatly. The clear brings out the color and the grain in the wood. If you noticed, the grain of the wood was white after the stain. The clear coat darkens up the grains a good deal.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06725-755860.jpg

After your first coat of Clear drys (about 45 minutes) you sand it with a 220 grit sand paper, then dust it off and shoot your second coat. Once your second coat is dry you sand it again with a 220 grit, Dust it off and shoot it again. The 3rd coat can either get sanded with steel wool and then waxed or you can leave it just as it is. If your air adjustment is right and you spraying technique is good, you should not end up with an orange peel look after your 3rd coat. If you do, just sand it with the Steel wool and wax it.

Also some people prefer 1 or 2 coats insted of 3. The more coats, the more smooth glassy finish you get. Do not do nore than 3 coats of clear and do not exceed 4 - 5 mill thickness of clear.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06734-730874.jpg

Here are some prety accurate shots of how the color turned out. We were trying to achive a Rosenut/Deep Cherry look but redder.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/finish-1-723040.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/finish-2-717136.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/finish-3-713441.jpg

So After a few Days of Mixing Stains, I found the Color I was looking for.
So we experimented with Some grain Fillers and decided to use a Red Mahogany Grain filler to accent and fill the Grains.
This is a test sample we did quickly to Show the sample color.
This has only 1 un-sanded coat of clear.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06981-783316.jpg

Here are all the Speaker Grill Frames, Waiting for Paint.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06875-777708.jpg

Here are the stained Columns. This is only the 2nd Step out of 13 Steps to achieve the Finish we want. The Color at this point looks like a dark penny color or Dark copper, but That will all change as soon as the next few Steps get finished.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06889-774096.jpg

Here are the light Trays Stained.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06894-765143.jpg

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06895-758200.jpg

Some more Shots of the Columns.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06899-762734.jpg

Now Time to begin the next Step, adding the Filler. The Filler fills up the Deep pores of the wood and accents the grain of the wood. We are using the filler to get a nice overall smooth glass like finish.
In this shot the Filler is being thinned to be sprayed on and then rubbed in.

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06937-757591.jpg

Strainig out the Filler here

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06943-753478.jpg

Spraying it on...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06950-749586.jpg

Rubbing it in...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06954-746339.jpg

Spraying the Filler on the columns...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06958-745125.jpg

Rubbing the filler in...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06960-740181.jpg

Columns completed with the filling process...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06962-735663.jpg

Light Trays completed with the filling process...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06969-731772.jpg

Close up shot of Filler on column...

http://www.platinumpictures.org/uploaded_images/DSC06970-728153.jpg

Next it's time to rub off the filler and then do a light Sanding.

Stay Tuned!

Couple last Screen Shots for the Night. This was with the Da-Lite Perforated Screen that Was Moiring. You Can see the Moire right between Jessica Albas Legs in the first picture :D

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/DSC07728.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/DSC07724.jpg

Update:

Carpet guy is here!

When they said Sunday Morning, I thought there were BSing me just to buy time. Its 1 guy, so lets See how this goes.

Ruben

...You Can see the Moire right between Jessica Albas Legs in the first picture :D



Good thing. If it had been anywhere else, you might not have noticed it...

Is that really Jessica's butt or is that a stunt butt??

Bud

A Little update,

The Carpet is Almost done, only the Stage is left now. It is looking reallly good. O

Once the carpet is installed, the only thing left to do to it will be to dye the lines in the carpet pattern. I'm bringing a kid in here to do that for a few hours. We made a template to mask off each line so each line can be dyed quickly and cleanly.

Right now the lines in the carpet pattern are a brownish/goldish color, we will be dying them red. Sounds like a real big job, but it really isn't.

Ruben

Ok Folks,

Here are some Carpet Shots. The Step still Needs to be carpeted, as they did not have enough carpet (I wonder why) :rolleyes:

The Color Red on the Walls and Columns is not the correct color as most of you already know. For some reason, It comes out Fire Engine Red whenever it wants to.

Enjoy...

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08452.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08460.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08476.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08484.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08485.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08486.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08487.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08494.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08496.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08497.jpg

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/carpet/DSC08504.jpg

So, you are gonna have a kid dye every one of those light colored lines red? That does sound like a big job, actually!

Seeing it in there, I'm glad you didn't go for the black carpet border. I think it wouldn't have really added anything to the room. It would've been a border for border's sake situation. ^_^

So when are you going to haul the chairs in there so you can fall into an eternal sleep? :-)

WOW!!!!! Thats looking really sweet.

I think that step across the front of the stage would look really good if it were veneered and finished out like the rest of the wood.

Ronnie

Update:

Carpet guy is here!

When they said Sunday Morning, I thought there were BSing me just to buy time. Its 1 guy, so lets See how this goes.

Ruben

First of all, all I can say is your post is inspiring and absolutely amazing!

I am curious. When the carpet guys arrive, what is their reaction to seeing your HT? After all, this isnt a boring dining room being carpeted.

So, you are gonna have a kid dye every one of those light colored lines red? That does sound like a big job, actually!

Yeah, it may take a full day. :) Even though the lines dissapear in Movie mode, the brown lines don't match anything in the room.

Ruben

Seeing it in there, I'm glad you didn't go for the black carpet border. I think it wouldn't have really added anything to the room. It would've been a border for border's sake situation. ^_^

So when are you going to haul the chairs in there so you can fall into an eternal sleep? :-)

Yeah, your Right. It would of got lost in the room. This looks fine for now until I find another carpet I like better. It's really hard to find black Carpets with patterns that aren't Beige or brown out here. I even checked online and Everything I found was Black and Brown or once in a while a Black and grey with a pattern I didn't like.

The chairs may go in tomorrow. I had nobody here to help me move them in today. I really wanted to get one in there at least. Oh well, hopefully tomorrow.

Ruben

WOW!!!!! Thats looking really sweet.

I think that step across the front of the stage would look really good if it were veneered and finished out like the rest of the wood.

Ronnie

Thanks Ronnie. We think very much alike. There is a reason that the step didn't get done. I think veneering it may look real nice, but I dont know how it will hold up getting stepped on. I know I will never sep on it with Shoes, but we have kids that come by every now and then and you know how kids can be.

This maybe a final revise job for chirpie. GOD knows, he only made 100 revisions already.

What do you think Chirpie?

Ruben

First of all, all I can say is your post is inspiring and absolutely amazing!

I am curious. When the carpet guys arrive, what is their reaction to seeing your HT? After all, this isnt a boring dining room being carpeted.

This is Boca Raton, pretty much every new home comes standard with a home theater out here now. But, maybe mine has a little more detail than the cookie cutter theaters they put in new homes here.

Well anyway it was only one guy that showed up and did the job. He was pretty impressed, but also pretty pissed that he had to work on his day off.
He had spent all day yesterday doing a carpet in a 7 million dollar Boat.

Ruben

Thanks Ronnie. We think very much alike. There is a reason that the step didn't get done. I think veneering it may look real nice, but I dont know how it will hold up getting stepped on. I know I will never sep on it with Shoes, but we have kids that come by every now and then and you know how kids can be.

This maybe a final revise job for chirpie. GOD knows, he only made 100 revisions already.

What do you think Chirpie?

Ruben

Your actually going to let kids up on the stage near your $5000 SMX screen material? ;)

Im curious to see what a render would look like also.

Just apply a few extra coats of clear for a little more protection. I am

Ronnie

Thanks Ronnie. We think very much alike. There is a reason that the step didn't get done. I think veneering it may look real nice, but I dont know how it will hold up getting stepped on. I know I will never sep on it with Shoes, but we have kids that come by every now and then and you know how kids can be.

This maybe a final revise job for chirpie. GOD knows, he only made 100 revisions already.

What do you think Chirpie?

Ruben


Sure. Before I mod it, I just want to clarify... Are we talking the whole step top and front or just the fronts with carpet interrupting on the top?

Sure. Before I mod it, I just want to clarify... Are we talking the whole step top and front or just the fronts with carpet interrupting on the top?

Just do everything that is not Carpeted in my pictures (the one step on the stage). Not the Risers.

Thanks
Ruben

Ruben like everything else, I know you've done your research.

What are the specs on that carpet pad. It looks pretty substantial. Not like the guy showed me for the inflated price here in the nations capital.

I wasn't sure if you wanted the front of the step veneered too... every photo was a little dark to tell... ^_^

http://www.chirpiegirl.com/ht/sandman.jpg

It would just be the Step. not the riser. So under the Step, make it black carpet.
Also, both the Steps have a 1-1/2" Lip.

Thanks!

Ruben

Ruben like everything else, I know you've done your research.

What are the specs on that carpet pad. It looks pretty substantial. Not like the guy showed me for the inflated price here in the nations capital.

It was the best Pad they had. The other crap they want to give you out here in FL is thin 3/8" soft foam (has to do with climate issues I guess). Like 4 people walked out of the store when they saw the padding they got with the carpet for the price. I paid an upcharge of $5 a yard for the best padding, so like $150 more for my room.

Here is a link to the Padding...
http://www.karastan.com/karastep_luxe.asp

It would just be the Step. not the riser. So under the Step, make it black carpet.
Also, both the Steps have a 1-1/2" Lip.

Thanks!

Ruben

Eh, I should've known if I couldn't see it, it was probably the carpet. Oh well. ^_^

http://www.chirpiegirl.com/ht/sandman1.jpg

That step is bad-ass. I like it.

Couple of suggestions if you dont mind. I would make the grain go the opposite way. Run it lengthwise.

Since your having him carpet the kickplate, it would be really cool to see a large roundover on the lip. Maybe a 2"er or so.

Very sweet!!!!!!!!! I sure wish I knew how to render like that.

Ronnie

Chirpie is the 3D render Master! If I went that route, I may do solid oak.

Ruben

I personally like it better in the first render where the whole first step is veneered, but that would only be my choice.

I think I would like carpet on steps and wood on the kick plate lit with 1/8" sideglow fiber optics, or better yet fiber optic stars on the kick plates matching the ceiling with a 6" " Picture framing" of the carpet on the stage with matching wood

Just thinking out loud, but I would have the ceiling and stairs be hooked together on dimming. The " Picture frame" of Oak surrounding the carpet would be 2" thick and possibly have a route right down the center of the lip painted black like the columns

Just me. But I would keep it all carpet. And if you're trying to separate the stage from the rest of the floor, Consider going with a solid color carpet, possibly black to match the columns and screen.

Another thought, and I'm no interior designer, what about flipping the carpet/wood: meaning that have wood on the face and carpet (either the same or black) on the top of the top of the step. If you do the black, again consider putting black on the stage as well.

Just some thoughts to consider.

Love your thread, and your manner. Clearly you have cash, but seems like a nice fella.

PF

Just a question...although aesthetically the veneered/solid oak step looks awesome, would it pick up a glare from the screen that would be too distracting for the front row audience?

If you feel that this is a possible distraction then I would recommend do the effect on the risers instead of the step...perhaps doing the riser below and above the step in question.

Just thoughts...I almost pulled back on even posting this comment.

Your HT is really coming together and its absolutely amazing you have Chirpie on your team! Chirpie...outstanding.

Hey Chirpie, do you want to give that a try as well? The Pattern carpet on the steps and the red oak on the 2 front risers. Maybe rope light under the 2 lips?

Thanks!
Ruben

Ruben,

Your HT looks great and has been very helpful to me for my build. I have been lurking for quite sometime and I would like to suggest that you reconsider the carpet dye idea. It is a process that doesnt always produce good results and is a problem come time to having the carpet cleaned. In order to do it you will have to remove a majority of the stainmaster (clear dye) and original dye from the dye sites and refill them with the new dye. With so many small lines it is easy to make a mistake. Then a stainmaster will need to be reapplied to fill the remainder of the dye sites and protect the new dye. In many cases when a dyed carpet is cleaned at least some if not a majority of the dye is removed. You probably already thought about this, but if you are set on the new dye, try the process on a reminant piece. Once set use a wet cleaning agent on the spot and see if you get any color transfer onto a white towel.
I know this might be too late for you, but if other AVSers are looking to save a buck on their carpet pad and they own a business or can open a business account, look for a carpet cushion supply (CCS) store in their area or any carpet installation supply store should carry all types of padding at half the retail.

Thanks again for all the great info!

Mark

Hi Mark,

Thanks. I already tested the dye on a piece before I even ordered the carpet. If the dye process wouldn't of worked, then I would of not gotten this carpet. I'm using a very strong dye as well, don't have it next to me at this second to say what it is.

A friend of mine who is in the carpet business recommended this dye and it works really well. Also, if it gets on the Black part of the carpet, it doesn't show. I did like 20 Lines in 3 minutes or so and they came out fine. It should last long enough for me until I find a new carpet choice :)

Ruben

I think the wood step looks really good. :eek: Sort of ties in the curve on the soffit above. I really think the glare shouldn't be a factor, considering the columns are already the same finish.

I like Mark's suggestion of the kickplate being wood and carpet on the top... For reasons of looks as well as potential glare.

Great render, Chirpie.

I'm digging way back here Ruben, but I was thinking about your soffits this morning and wondering how you did both bass absorption and veneering. So I looked back and noticed that it's veneering toward the middle and bass absorption on the outside.

Your post referencing this is #264 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6709871&&#post6709871). Then I noticed that you put some kind of material underneath the bass absorption attached to the horizontal 2x4s, and I'm wondering what it is? I couldn't find where you mentioned it. Here is a picture that shows what I'm talking about:

Veneer Light Tray (http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/veneer-light-tray/DSC06183.jpg)

I imagine that material must be acoustically transparent yet somewhat sturdy to hold up the linacoustic?

Tim,

I think it's kraft paper. Originally he had put in the cotton in the soffit then stapled the kraft paper on the bottom of the soffit. As I recall though, he talked to Bryan and moved the paper up on top of the 2x4s and the cotton sits on top. Ruben or Bryan, please correct me if I'm wrong. Check out post 561 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6906566&&#post6906566).

Bud

Hey Chirpie, do you want to give that a try as well? The Pattern carpet on the steps and the red oak on the 2 front risers. Maybe rope light under the 2 lips?

Thanks!
Ruben

Let me find my coffee and then I'll get to that...

Let me find my coffee and then I'll get to that... Chirpie, is it tough to move down to like 5'-6' or seating level, it looks like we are 9' up. maybe Rubens risers are tall and I missed something

Chirpie, is it tough to move down to like 5'-6' or seating level, it looks like we are 9' up. maybe Rubens risers are tall and I missed something

Are you talking the height of the virtual camera? (I'm slow in the morning...)

If I put the camera at eye level, you can't see the top of the stage as well. Not difficult to make more than one view shot though...

As for the riser height, it's been so long since he told me, but it should be somewhere around 10 inches I thought...

Are you talking the height of the virtual camera? (I'm slow in the morning...)

If I put the camera at eye level, you can't see the top of the stage as well. Not difficult to make more than one view shot though...

As for the riser height, it's been so long since he told me, but it should be somewhere around 10 inches I thought... Yeah, thats what I meant, to render what people will see in real life.

Yes. The covering is Kraft Paper. It acts somewhat similarly to FRK/FSK facing to help minimize HF absorbtion but still allow bass to pass through. Real FRK/FSK will reflect even more and also act somewhat like a damped membrane.

http://www.chirpiegirl.com/ht/sandman3.jpg



space between pictures



http://www.chirpiegirl.com/ht/sandman4.jpg

I kinda like that look. Certainly wouldn't take a lot of abuse only on the faces like that.

Yes that is very nice. I would probably do the same for the Platform In the Back as well, or at least the steps.

Good job Chirpie! Your Hired :D

Ruben

Yep. That's the ticket.

Also won't reflect any of the screen.

On another note - are you going to do the proscenium walls in the same black fabric as the screen wall like that? IMO - if you do, there's not much point in having the proscenium walls.

Yep. That's the ticket.

Also won't reflect any of the screen.

On another note - are you going to do the proscenium walls in the same black fabric as the screen wall like that? IMO - if you do, there's not much point in having the proscenium walls.

Yeah, the Proscenium walls are wrong in the renders. They are suppose to line up with the front of the stage. I was originally going to do curtains (the track is installed) but may now use it for side masking instead.

Ruben

I agree, thats why I mentioned it, but I would not use rope lighting what so ever unless you have a huge lip, use 1/8"- 1/4" sideglow fiberoptic and pick your color or have multiple colors changing.

Infact Mr. Chirpie represents sideglow, not rope lighting from my experience, at least when it comes to stage lips. Mr. chirpie do you do this for a living or hobbie or both? can you do rooms that are strange in size and shape?

That last render is near perfect. I like that look better than doing the whole step. It adds a very nice touch of class.

A thin fiber light on dimmers as suggested would be the trick. I see a red glow being emitted in the future. :p

Ronnie

Yeah, the Proscenium walls are wrong in the renders. They are suppose to line up with the front of the stage. I was originally going to do curtains (the track is installed) but may now use it for side masking instead.

Ruben

What? You changed that too?! Oi! Not even the curtains are safe! :P

So, is Ruben the kind of customer a contractor likes or hates? Keeps changing his mind which makes it hard to get things right, but makes things cost more at the same time.... :)

I agree, thats why I mentioned it, but I would not use rope lighting what so ever unless you have a huge lip, use 1/8"- 1/4" sideglow fiberoptic and pick your color or have multiple colors changing.

Infact Mr. Chirpie represents sideglow, not rope lighting from my experience, at least when it comes to stage lips. Mr. chirpie do you do this for a living or hobbie or both? can you do rooms that are strange in size and shape?

I assume stuff sometimes, but I figured Ruben was an LED or Fiber Optic kind of guy. Not that ropelights don't have their place, but in front... that's gonna stick out quite a lot.

I do it for a living and a hobby, yes. And yes, I can do "weird shapes" as well. ^_^ The stuff I do for the members here is a lot more reasonably priced than the commerical stuff I do. But then, the commercial folks have more to gain in a monetary sense anyway. it's typical fare to charge differently based on usage in the commerical design industry.

That render ain't gonna be perfect until I see some J Alba cheeks on that big screen.

That render ain't gonna be perfect until I see some J Alba cheeks on that big screen.

I gave you plenty of her already :D

So, is Ruben the kind of customer a contractor likes or hates? Keeps changing his mind which makes it hard to get things right, but makes things cost more at the same time.... :)

I'm my own contractor, that's why I can make all the changes I want. :)
Sometimes when your in the middle of a build, you see opportunities to make things better. I could of been the by the books kind of guy and just lived with my original plans and tear It down in a few months and do it over again. Or, I can make the improvements during the actual build and be happy for a longer time. As I said before, I am very happy with all the changes I made. There is one other change I now wish I would of made, that is to put my equipment somewhere outside the theater.

It's like Bryan Pape told me, sometimes a picture or render just doesn't cut it when compared to standing in the room. He is 100% right.

Ruben

Don't get me wrong, a pic or render is way better than just a 2D drawing to help you visualize. Sometimes, you just need to be there and experience it though.

That render ain't gonna be perfect until I see some J Alba cheeks on that big screen.

LOL, I was gonna make the exact same comment and I even had the editor open and half of it typed and then I thought what my wife would say if she saw that the request for more of JA's cheeks had come from me. :)

So thanks!! Now only if Chirpie complies. :)

JOe

There is one other change I now wish I would of made, that is to put my equipment somewhere outside the theater.

Ruben

Please share your thoughts about this?

Equipment in the theater has a lot of problems.

First there is the noise and equipment today keeps getting noisier with many components having fans now. My TiVo isn't that loud, but get 5-6 components like that and it adds up.

Second, you have to deal with light spill from the LCD and LEDs. Most of these stay on all the time and that ends up washing out the screen a little bit. It starts to add up with more equipment and all of the lights are colored, so they shift the color on the screen.

Third, you need to designate an area that won't be able to have acoustic treatments and also need to have access to the front of that area. You would need access to the back or have enough room for a pull-out rack system.

Fourth, you have to keep the equipment cool. With most systems of this caliber or higher you are going to need some kind of fan. That generates even more noise and fan noise is tough to kill since you have to maintain airflow to the fan and that allows the sound to come back out via the same path. Puts lots of hard corners in the air path to kill the sound and you increase the resistance so you would need an even bigger fan to get the same CFM of air movement.

With a decent remote system, you don't need the equipment in the room, so why put it there?

By the way, Ruben, I made some changes to my room so it won't be so boring. Curves were added to the seating platform steps and the soffit in front of the proscenium. I uploaded pictures last night to my construction thread if you want to see.

Yeah, the Proscenium walls are wrong in the renders. They are suppose to line up with the front of the stage. I was originally going to do curtains (the track is installed) but may now use it for side masking instead.

Ruben

You will have a problem using curtains for masking. If you have an acoustically transparent screen then you would want acoustically transparent masking as well. Not many curtains are acoustically transparent.

I have curtains going in my theater, but I wouldn't dare use them for masking. They are just for theatrical effect and to tie into the rest of the decor (as well as cover the opening at the edges of the screen wall).

Equipment in the theater has a lot of problems.

First there is the noise and equipment today keeps getting noisier with many components having fans now. My TiVo isn't that loud, but get 5-6 components like that and it adds up.

Second, you have to deal with light spill from the LCD and LEDs. Most of these stay on all the time and that ends up washing out the screen a little bit. It starts to add up with more equipment and all of the lights are colored, so they shift the color on the screen.

Third, you need to designate an area that won't be able to have acoustic treatments and also need to have access to the front of that area. You would need access to the back or have enough room for a pull-out rack system.

Fourth, you have to keep the equipment cool. With most systems of this caliber or higher you are going to need some kind of fan. That generates even more noise and fan noise is tough to kill since you have to maintain airflow to the fan and that allows the sound to come back out via the same path. Puts lots of hard corners in the air path to kill the sound and you increase the resistance so you would need an even bigger fan to get the same CFM of air movement.

With a decent remote system, you don't need the equipment in the room, so why put it there?

By the way, Ruben, I made some changes to my room so it won't be so boring. Curves were added to the seating platform steps and the soffit in front of the proscenium. I uploaded pictures last night to my construction thread if you want to see.
Fifth, in most instances putting equipment in the HT means you're cutting a big hole in the wall. After all the trouble we go thru with multiple layers of drywall, GG, RSIC, etc putting a big hole in the wall just doesn't seem right.

I was going to put my equipment in the room, but after some advice from others I decided to put it out in the hallway.

Still looking good Ruben! Love the wood and look of everything, especially the wood around the tray in the ceiling.

By the way, Ruben, I made some changes to my room so it won't be so boring. Curves were added to the seating platform steps and the soffit in front of the proscenium. I uploaded pictures last night to my construction thread if you want to see.


You are too funny. I checked Your thread last night and they look great.

Ruben

Fifth, in most instances putting equipment in the HT means you're cutting a big hole in the wall. After all the trouble we go thru with multiple layers of drywall, GG, RSIC, etc putting a big hole in the wall just doesn't seem right.

I was going to put my equipment in the room, but after some advice from others I decided to put it out in the hallway.

Still looking good Ruben! Love the wood and look of everything, especially the wood around the tray in the ceiling.

Gawd, I hope you wouldn't think I would be Stupid after all this work and cut an open hole in my room for the equipment rack :rolleyes: :) The Closet for the equipment rack is solid Double 5/8" Drywall with GG in between and all insulated. I have a total of 3 penetrations in the Room...
1) the HVAC Supply (which I took all the proper measurements to seal it)
2) the HVAC Return (which I took all the proper measurements to seal that as well)
3) The Main Electrical Feed (which also has been properly routed and sealed)

The rack is pretty Damn quiet in the room with everything running. I hear the projector before I hear the rack.

Due to my room being only 15' wide, the 4 chairs on the riser kind of get in the way when trying to access the rack. Meaning, whenever I have to service it I have to move those big ass chairs around. Once its wired and set, I don't think I will have to service it until an upgrade or something anyway.

Also, Like MrPoindexter Said, The lights on the equipment can be a bit distracting. So I came up with an Idea to make a hiding panel so the equipment will be hidden in the room. The idea I have will not restrict circulation of air in the rack either.

The idea here anyway is to be able to control everything by remote and not have to every touch the equipment rack. That's why I'm using HTPC, Jukeboxes, Cinemar and IR repeaters.

Ruben

Gawd, I hope you wouldn't think I would be Stupid after all this work and cut an open hole in my room for the equipment rack :rolleyes: :) The Closet for the equipment rack is solid Double 5/8" Drywall with GG in between and all insulated. I have a total of 3 penetrations in the Room...
1) the HVAC Supply (which I took all the proper measurements to seal it)
2) the HVAC Return (which I took all the proper measurements to seal that as well)
3) The Main Electrical Feed (which also has been properly routed and sealed)

The rack is pretty Damn quiet in the room with everything running. I hear the projector before I hear the rack.

Due to my room being only 15' wide, the 4 chairs on the riser kind of get in the way when trying to access the rack. Meaning, whenever I have to service it I have to move those big ass chairs around. Once its wired and set, I don't think I will have to service it until an upgrade or something anyway.

Also, Like MrPoindexter Said, The lights on the equipment can be a bit distracting. So I came up with an Idea to make a hiding panel so the equipment will be hidden in the room. The idea I have will not restrict circulation of air in the rack either.

The idea here anyway is to be able to control everything by remote and not have to every touch the equipment rack. That's why I'm using HTPC, Jukeboxes, Cinemar and IR repeaters.

Ruben
I know you're not that stupid. With the rack in the room and if it's sealed, then you might have to look at an exhaust or fans in the rack to get rid of heat. Other stuff like that that's not an issue if you just put everything outside of the room.

Not everyone can afford the nice pull out rack you have either. Because of it you could completely drywall and seal the space behind it. I was originally thinking of putting a sealed door on the back of my rack for access to try and keep the sound from leaking. That's just one of the reasons I put it outside of the HT.

I know you're not that stupid. With the rack in the room and if it's sealed, then you might have to look at an exhaust or fans in the rack to get rid of heat. Other stuff like that that's not an issue if you just put everything outside of the room.

Not everyone can afford the nice pull out rack you have either. Because of it you could completely drywall and seal the space behind it. I was originally thinking of putting a sealed door on the back of my rack for access to try and keep the sound from leaking. That's just one of the reasons I put it outside of the HT.

Yeah, I have fans in the rack to suck fresh air in on the bottom and blow the hot air out the top. I was gonna AC the rack but it wouldn't of made sense being that my A/C isn't always running, plus it would be more work to make sure the sound doesn't leak through the system.

Ruben

Ruben, did you calculate the thermal load to determine the CFM you need?

Ruben, did you calculate the thermal load to determine the CFM you need?

Yes, here is the Formula I started using to figure it out

x = [ ?(?1) ± ?[1 ? 4(12)(?35)] ] / 2(12)
x = [ 1 ± ?1681 ] / 24
?1681 = 41, and therefore
x = [ 1 ± 41 ] / 24
x = 42/24 or ?40/24
x = 7/4 or ?5/3
If 7/4 and ?5/3 are roots, then (x?7/4) and (x+5/3) are factors. Therefore
12x²?x?35 = (4x?7)(3x+5)
What about x²?5x+7? This one looks like it's prime, but how can you be sure? Again, apply the formula:
x = [ ?(?5) ± ?[25 ? 4(1)(7)] ] / 2(1)
x = [ 5 ± ?(?3) ] / 2
What you do with that depends on the original problem. If it was to factor over the reals, then x²?5x+7 is prime. But if that factor was part of an equation and you were supposed to find all complex roots, you have two of them:
x = 5/2 + ((?3)/2)i, x = 5/2 ? ((?3)/2)i

But I gave up on that formaula and rewrote the formula to...

2 Fans on bottom of the Rack face sucking cold air in + 2 Fans on top of the rack face blowing hot air out = Cooler equipment. I also threw a tempaturature gauge in the equation to control the speed of the Fans.

:D

<chuckle>

Thought I'd stumbled onto an episode of NUMB3RS for a moment, there.

But back to banal questions for Ruben...

What brand/model of fans are you using?

Chip

<making a notebook of all this stuff for his own HT later this year>

Yes, here is the Formula I started using to figure it out

x = [ ?(?1) ± ?[1 ? 4(12)(?35)] ] / 2(12)
x = [ 1 ± ?1681 ] / 24
?1681 = 41, and therefore
x = [ 1 ± 41 ] / 24
x = 42/24 or ?40/24
x = 7/4 or ?5/3
If 7/4 and ?5/3 are roots, then (x?7/4) and (x+5/3) are factors. Therefore
12x²?x?35 = (4x?7)(3x+5)
What about x²?5x+7? This one looks like it's prime, but how can you be sure? Again, apply the formula:
x = [ ?(?5) ± ?[25 ? 4(1)(7)] ] / 2(1)
x = [ 5 ± ?(?3) ] / 2
What you do with that depends on the original problem. If it was to factor over the reals, then x²?5x+7 is prime. But if that factor was part of an equation and you were supposed to find all complex roots, you have two of them:
x = 5/2 + ((?3)/2)i, x = 5/2 ? ((?3)/2)i

I am thinking that 4 is supposed to be a 3, please. If your going to post these formulas , try and get them right

I am thinking that 4 is supposed to be a 3, please. If your going to post these formulas , try and get them right

So that is where I was messing up :D

I dunno if thats all, that 7 looks a little shakey too

<chuckle>

Thought I'd stumbled onto an episode of NUMB3RS for a moment, there.

But back to banal questions for Ruben...

What brand/model of fans are you using?

Chip

<making a notebook of all this stuff for his own HT later this year>

These are the Fans I'm using http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=674640&CatId=494

If you get them in Blue they cool off things better :)

Since we're on the subject of quiet fans.
Here's the ones I use:
Pabst (http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/9dbPapst.html)
9db almost silent

Panasonic also makes some quiet ones.

Yes, here is the Formula I started using to figure it out

x = [ ?(?1) ± ?[1 ? 4(12)(?35)] ] / 2(12)
x = [ 1 ± ?1681 ] / 24
?1681 = 41, and therefore
x = [ 1 ± 41 ] / 24
x = 42/24 or ?40/24
x = 7/4 or ?5/3
If 7/4 and ?5/3 are roots, then (x?7/4) and (x+5/3) are factors. Therefore
12x²?x?35 = (4x?7)(3x+5)
What about x²?5x+7? This one looks like it's prime, but how can you be sure? Again, apply the formula:
x = [ ?(?5) ± ?[25 ? 4(1)(7)] ] / 2(1)
x = [ 5 ± ?(?3) ] / 2
What you do with that depends on the original problem. If it was to factor over the reals, then x²?5x+7 is prime. But if that factor was part of an equation and you were supposed to find all complex roots, you have two of them:
x = 5/2 + ((?3)/2)i, x = 5/2 ? ((?3)/2)i


:D


Hmmmm, something is just not right here. Using your above calculations, then cross referencing them with the Hollister Thermal Index Prediction (TIP) program it shows that you need 2 of these. One on top, one on bottom, and slightly out of phase. :D :D



http://webpages.charter.net/jackson.ronnie/avs/cooler.jpg

Am I the only one that noticed Ruben talk about the chairs being in the way of his equipment as if they were there now? Pictures? Please. :)

You are so close to having it look done, and since so many of us will never get to experience it in person, looking done is a HUGE thing. Although I will have to keep reading to hear how well all of your solutions work out for you...

Anybody else going to have 10 or 20 minutes extra everyday when Ruben is done and this thread doesn't get 20 new posts a day? I know I will.

Keep it up, it's looking great,
Brian

Since we're on the subject of quiet fans.
Here's the ones I use:
Pabst (http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/9dbPapst.html)
9db almost silent

Panasonic also makes some quiet ones.

Nice,

But that fan only moves 12.35 CFM at 9db
the ones I have move 53 CFM each at 20db at full power. Thats more than 4 times more CFM at half the db.

Ruben

Hmmmm, something is just not right here. Using your above calculations, then cross referencing them with the Hollister Thermal Index Prediction (TIP) program it shows that you need 2 of these. One on top, one on bottom, and slightly out of phase. :D :D



http://webpages.charter.net/jackson.ronnie/avs/cooler.jpg

Damn, I could of used one of those when I lived in the South Bronx with no AC.

Am I the only one that noticed Ruben talk about the chairs being in the way of his equipment as if they were there now? Pictures? Please. :)

You are so close to having it look done, and since so many of us will never get to experience it in person, looking done is a HUGE thing. Although I will have to keep reading to hear how well all of your solutions work out for you...

Anybody else going to have 10 or 20 minutes extra everyday when Ruben is done and this thread doesn't get 20 new posts a day? I know I will.

Keep it up, it's looking great,
Brian

Yeah, I only got 2 chairs In the theater. Still waiting on this kid to come through and dye the lines on the carpet. Plus I want to fully wire everything up before I get all the chairs in there.

Ruben

Hey Guys, I had to Pull my pictures down for Now.
It was really bogging down my server.

I will try to get them back up this weekend.

Sorry
Ruben

Ruben,

If you could, I'd like to hear about how you wired up the 12VDC fans? I have an entertainment center that has no holes/vents in it and right now I keep the wood/glass door partially open to keep my receiver, DVD player and cable box/DVR cool. I thought about just splicing the fan to a transformer and plugging it into an outlet on the back of my receiver.

I'd just be interested to see how you did it.....

Nice,

But that fan only moves 12.35 CFM at 9db
the ones I have move 53 CFM each at 20db at full power. Thats more than 4 times more CFM at half the db.

Ruben

20db isn't twice 9db, as sound is measured on a logarithmic scale.

If one fan moves 12.35 CFM at 9db, then two would move 24.7CFM at 12db and four would move 49.4 CFM at 15db. You could move 61.7 CFM with 5 of those fans and only be at 16db.

But I gave up on that formaula and rewrote the formula to...

2 Fans on bottom of the Rack face sucking cold air in + 2 Fans on top of the rack face blowing hot air out = Cooler equipment. I also threw a tempaturature gauge in the equation to control the speed of the Fans.

:D

Add up the total watts of consumption for all the non-amplifiers in the rack. Give me that number, the amp make and model and I will calc the thermal dissipation requirements for you based on the proposed temperature of the room.

You might want to PM it to me, as I will be on the road for a couple of days and might miss in as your construction thread moves kind of fast.

Ruben,

If you could, I'd like to hear about how you wired up the 12VDC fans? I have an entertainment center that has no holes/vents in it and right now I keep the wood/glass door partially open to keep my receiver, DVD player and cable box/DVR cool. I thought about just splicing the fan to a transformer and plugging it into an outlet on the back of my receiver.

I'd just be interested to see how you did it.....


You could buy a 12v power supply (wall wart type) from Radio Shack. Make sure you add up the required current for all of your fans to be sure the supply can give you that. The Radio Shack supplies come with this goofy 2 pin connector on them. You could cut it off, cut off the connectors on your fans, and simply solder them together.

Or, they sell a little connector for that thing that has two tinned leads on the other end. I bought a short piece of computer cable (the 4 conductor 12v, Gnd, Gnd, 5v internal power cable) and cut one end off that. Then I soldered these two pieces together making a short adapter between to the fan connect and the 12v adapter. Worked great, and left the fans and power supply intact. You can get an adjustable power supply if you think you might want to run the fans a little slower if you are concerned about noise.

Once I had that all working, I decided to hook it all up to a pc fan controller that turns them on/off individually based on the cabinet temp. That was slightly more work as the fan controller needed 5v. You just have to build a little voltage regulator circuit.

I used Nexus Real Silent 120mm fans. They're silent to me. They can be ordered on Amazon via Cooler Guys. They arrived in 2 days.

20db isn't twice 9db, as sound is measured on a logarithmic scale.

If one fan moves 12.35 CFM at 9db, then two would move 24.7CFM at 12db and four would move 49.4 CFM at 15db. You could move 61.7 CFM with 5 of those fans and only be at 16db.

Ok Mike, You gotta be more than a "nut" man. I was gonna make the same comment and you beat me to it. Is your background in engineering?

Joe

Hey Ruben, we just had a raid array failure here at work. I don't know what number the raid configuration was, but I was just told that we had 4 fiber channel drives all go at one time. Basically the master boot record went bad on one and took the other three with it.

It took our I.T. guys almost 4 days to get the back-ups restored so we could be working again. We had 302 gigs of data restored comprising 886,000 files. Doesn't seem like it should have been that long, but the restoration software we have which is UNIX based was choking after 60,000 files and slowing down.

They are going to replace the existing set-up with a newer larger raid set-up in which 6 drives will be able to go without any noticable file issues.

I hope after you get all your movies on there, that this doesn't happen to you!

Hey Ruben, we just had a raid array failure here at work. I don't know what number the raid configuration was, but I was just told that we had 4 fiber channel drives all go at one time. Basically the master boot record went bad on one and took the other three with it.

It took our I.T. guys almost 4 days to get the back-ups restored so we could be working again. We had 302 gigs of data restored comprising 886,000 files. Doesn't seem like it should have been that long, but the restoration software we have which is UNIX based was choking after 60,000 files and slowing down.

They are going to replace the existing set-up with a newer larger raid set-up in which 6 drives will be able to go without any noticable file issues.

I hope after you get all your movies on there, that this doesn't happen to you!

We just had one of our hard drives fail here too. Can't quite figure out what happened to it though. :)

http://www.createasong.com/drive.jpg

Joe

Basically the master boot record went bad on one and took the other three with it.



That might be their explanation to the management team, but I doubt thats the real cause. When you have a failure of more than a single drive at the same time, its usually not just a drive issue. Especially if they are fairly new and dont have much run time on them.

Ronnie

It took our I.T. guys almost 4 days to get the back-ups restored so we could be working again. We had 302 gigs of data restored comprising 886,000 files. Doesn't seem like it should have been that long, but the restoration software we have which is UNIX based was choking after 60,000 files and slowing down.


Wow, You sure these folks know what they are doing? I can restore almost 1 terrabyte in less than 5 hours on an exchange production clusters.

We are seeing some impressive restore times in the lab with the new LTO3 technology using flat files. Almost 80mb/sec streaming.

Ronnie

Wow, You sure these folks know what they are doing? I can restore almost 1 terrabyte in less than 5 hours on an exchange production clusters.

We are seeing some impressive restore times in the lab with the new LTO3 technology using flat files. Almost 80mb/sec streaming.

Ronnie


It looks like I got a hard drive repair guy now :)

Hey Ruben, we just had a raid array failure here at work. I don't know what number the raid configuration was, but I was just told that we had 4 fiber channel drives all go at one time. Basically the master boot record went bad on one and took the other three with it.

It took our I.T. guys almost 4 days to get the back-ups restored so we could be working again. We had 302 gigs of data restored comprising 886,000 files. Doesn't seem like it should have been that long, but the restoration software we have which is UNIX based was choking after 60,000 files and slowing down.

They are going to replace the existing set-up with a newer larger raid set-up in which 6 drives will be able to go without any noticable file issues.

I hope after you get all your movies on there, that this doesn't happen to you!

That Sux. I would be doing a Raid 5 or Raid 1 anyway. But I will only be archiving newer titles. Older titles go in the Sony jukeboxes.

Ruben

That Sux. I would be doing a Raid 5 or Raid 1 anyway. But I will only be archiving newer titles. Older titles go in the Sony jukeboxes.

Ruben

Yeah, go with the raid.

I agree with Ronnie, those guys don't have a clue as to what they are doing. They must have run something that wiped out the boot records and are now trying to cover their arses. It definately was NOT a hardware issue.

Joe

It looks like I got a hard drive repair guy now :)

LOL, I dont know about the repair part. But I can sure help you set up the correct striping and backup methodologies. With that in place, I can then help you recover the data in the event of a failure.

Maybe I can barter out for some theater build help? ;)

Ronnie

Ronnie and Joe, I am in complete agreement with you guys. The typical person working on the IT stuff (the ones we have to deal with anyway) are stuck in their own little world. They are using a UNIX server which is fine, but up until less than a year ago, they forced the users to deal with unix machines as well. The program I use (Pro-Engineer) has been up and running on PC's for well over 10 years now, I know, I have been doing it on PC's from the time I learned Pro-E. They are somehow able to pull the wool over management's eyes when it comes to this stuff and they have all been there for 15+ years. The problem with being in one place for that long in that industry is that you CAN (I don't mean to say every IT person is like this) become lax about keeping up with new technology and get left in the dust.

They almost convinced the managers that it would be better to get new UNIX boxes instead of PC's when we were in the market a year ago. Better for who?

Ooooh, I could keep going on this, but I will stop, since it doesn't add to this thread at all! :)

Here is a company that sells aluminum screen frames and a heavy duty frame that will take the thickness of the sheerweave material.

http://www.alumaline.net/default.htm

Tony

20db isn't twice 9db, as sound is measured on a logarithmic scale.

If one fan moves 12.35 CFM at 9db, then two would move 24.7CFM at 12db and four would move 49.4 CFM at 15db. You could move 61.7 CFM with 5 of those fans and only be at 16db.
I was thinking the same thing. One problem (for the cost conscious) is that you can either push 53 CFM @ 20 dB for $19, or 61.7 CFM @ 16 dB for $100! :eek:

The slight difference in noise is likely not worth the cost.. of course it's all a cost to benefit ratio. A more important difference could be in their placement, design of the rack, etc..

SandmanX,

I have been following this thread from the beginning or should say I have read from the beginning. At the beginning you were posting your cost on this project, but I have yet to see a follow up.

I and many other forum members would like to know the total cost of such a project from beginning to end. Obvious a project like this does not fit the budget for most of us so give us a breakdown. If I were to take a guess I would say your at $50,000.00 plus…

the equipment is one thing but my guess for the room is $20K or under considering he did all the labor himself with only minimal help. I have priced out most of the materials to build this room and my room is slightly bigger, I am still not even at $15K CDN, mind you that does not include chairs or carpet yet.

the equipment is one thing but my guess for the room is $20K or under considering he did all the labor himself with only minimal help. I have priced out most of the materials to build this room and my room is slightly bigger, I am still not even at $15K CDN, mind you that does not include chairs or carpet yet.

I am talking about the entire project - equipment, building material, chairs, etc...
Everthing that went into making the theater...etc...

the equipment is one thing but my guess for the room is $20K or under considering he did all the labor himself with only minimal help. I have priced out most of the materials to build this room and my room is slightly bigger, I am still not even at $15K CDN, mind you that does not include chairs or carpet yet.

Sandman will correct me if wrong, but I believe he has had at least one helper all along the way. Not sure if they've been paid help or very, very, dedicated friend help but while his work is remarkable, I think he's had some help to keep it moving at the speed he has.

Here is a complete breakdown of what I Spent on this entire project. This does Not include the cost of a screen yet...

In case you missed it in the beginning, my room size is 15' x 20' x 9' ceilings or 300 square feet.

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Plans

$150.00 for Renders of Room

Total Planning Cost: $150.00

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Heavy Construction Materials

$560.00 for framing lumber

$934.50 for 89 Sheets of 5/8" Drywall

$1,208.75 for Plywood, Insulation, Joists, Silicone, roofing felt, etc

$60.00 for Foam on the roll

$48.00 for Red Head Anchors

$100.00 Nails, Screws, Glue, etc

$75.00 for Taping/Mud

$240.00 for 4000 lbs. of Sand for Stage

$65.00 2 Day Rental of Drywall Lift

Total Heavy Construction Materials Cost: $3,291.25

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Finishing

$720.00 Veneer, Glue, Stain, Sealer, etc.

$565.00 for quarter rounds for 6 columns

$78.32 for Particle Board for columns

$95.00 Red Oak Plywood for Base Boards

$1,120.00 for the GoM Fabric

Total Finishing Materials Cost: $2,578.32

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HVAC

$250.00 for Ductwork installation

Total HVAC Cost: $250.00

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Electrical

$499.00 for Lutron GRX-3106-A Grafik Eye

$820.00 for Fiber Star Ceiling supplies

$625.00 for 125 Amp Service Box Installed

$75.00 for 200 Feet of Smurf Conduit and Clamps

$261.23 for Xantech IR repeater

$495.00 BTX MotorDrape

$183.00 Romex/Cat 5/RG-6/

$189.53 11 High Voltage Recessed Lights

$200.00 for 500 feet of 10 Gauge High Definition Zip Speaker Cable

$180.00 Outlets, Boxes, Conduit, Switches, etc.

Total Electrical Materials/Labor Cost: $3,527.76

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Treatments

$1,210.00 for 7 Cases of Green Glue
$850.00 for Accoustic treatment materials

Total Treatments Cost: $2,060.00

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Misc. Labor

$3,200.00

Total Misc. Labor Labor Cost: $3,200.00

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Finishing Touch's

$1,470.00 for Carpet installed
$4,600.00 for 7 Leather/Microfabric chairs Delivered.

Total Finishing Touch's Cost: $6,070.00

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Total of everything up to the carpet (Without the Chairs) $16,527.33

Total of everything up to the carpet (With the Chairs) $21,127.33


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Equipment

Speakers

2 Martin Logan Odyssey's $6,350.00
1 Martin Logan Theater $2,800.00
4 Martin Logan Scripts's $3,200.00
1 Velodyne DD-18 Sub $2,800.00

Rack Gear

1 B&K AVR-507 Processor $2,800.00
2 B&K 200.1 Monoblocks $1,600.00
1 Pioneer DVD-59avi $850.00
1 HTPC $2,600.00
3 Sony DVP-CX777ES Jukeboxes $1,600.00
1 Monster AVS 2000 $1,100.00
1 Zenith HD-SAT520 $625.00
1 xBox 360 Premium $680.00
1 4:1 OPHIT DVI Switcher $314.00
10 Custom Rack Shelves $864.12
1 Equipment Rack $730.71
Misc Equipment for Serial, Switching, Rack cooling, IR etc. $300.00
Wires $830.00

Projector

1 Optoma H-79 Projector $4,100.00

DVDs

1,000 DVD's $15,000.00


$34,143.83 For Total Equipment (Not Including DVDs)
$49,143.83 For Total Equipment (Including DVDs)

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Total Cost of Build, Equipment and DVDs for Theater $70,271.16

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I still need to build the Entrance to the Theater. I am doing a Marquee Entrance. I'm going to budget that at $1k

Now that is impressive. I think you would win any under $75K HT competition.

J-dubb