Wow, very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like with the velour/trim front.

Why does the top middle of the last picture look like it's not attached completely? It just seems odd that you'd "install" it in there without the top pulled taught.

Great job! Keep 'em coming! :)

Thanks,

You're seeing a shadow of the procenium wall from the lights above. The curved screen is recessed inside the existing proscenium wall for the meantime.

Ruben

Just thinking aloud, but would the bent screen help fight moiré problems or is stretching the fabric with a slight rotation still a better way to fight it?

So far no-one has reported Moiré with the SmX beside ebr which found out he was running the SmX material in the wrong direction thanks to the directional discovery by Mark P.

Ruben

Good job Ruben, glad you didnt have focus problems! Guess thats another theory shot down. Cant wait to hear/see the results of the SMX curved screen. Now you you dont have to have all your speakers in a sraight line, another benefit of the curve

Yeah it looks real slick too. I didn't think there would be any focus problems, my last theater had a curved wall I projected on and I had no focus issues then.

The Dazian is dark as hell so there is no worthy movie shots to take by camera.

Ruben

Its looking great! Keeps getting better and better. :)

Wow, very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like with the velour/trim front.

Why does the top middle of the last picture look like it's not attached completely? It just seems odd that you'd "install" it in there without the top pulled taught.

Great job! Keep 'em coming! :)

Congratulations Tim!

You hit the milestone post of 2000.

But I guess the real congratulations goes to Ruben for the great thread. :)

Joe

Ruben,

FWIW, I was doing some random research on automated curtain controls and ran across this company. I didn't get past the 1st paragraph and thought I would point it out to you. What caught my eye was the fact that they would custom bend the traveller. For your new curved screen an automated drape system that would match the curve would look amazing.

http://www.automatedshade.com/directdrive.php

Joe

On the speaker wire, any reason you went 10 gauge as opposed to say 12, and did you get it off the internet (I'm looking for a cost-effective e-supplier)

Wow - I never noticed the 10ga wire before. I thought 12 was overkill...

How on earth do you get 10ga wire to hook up to anything. Most binding posts barely fit my 12.

Wow - I never noticed the 10ga wire before. I thought 12 was overkill...

How on earth do you get 10ga wire to hook up to anything. Most binding posts barely fit my 12.

My current critical listening setup uses 6 guage stranded. I needed to peel back some of the strands on the ends to make them work. (I also pushed real hard to get as many strands as possible into the plugs.)

Joe

On the speaker wire, any reason you went 10 gauge as opposed to say 12, and did you get it off the internet (I'm looking for a cost-effective e-supplier)

I used regular 10 Gauge Python zip cord Speaker Wire. I bought a 500 foot roll from I bought a 500 foot roll from Here (http://www.cablesforless.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2358)

I went with a heavy guage due to the longer runs and to be future upgrade proof. I used heavy duty gold plated spades and locking bananna plugs to connect the wire to components and speakers.

Ruben

Hey Ruben,

You may have allready thought of it but I'll post it anyway, you may be able to use the curved test pieces of screen frame to re-frame your proscenium. That way the radius would match and you don't have to do any PITA woodwork.

Everything is looking great, keep up the fantastic work.

Later,
Brian

The radius would actually be different unless his proscenium is to be flush with his screen. If you want a 1' lip, then you add 1' to the radius.

EDIT: reduce the radius by 1" for a 1" lip. I was thinking convex like a stage and not concave like a curved screen.

Then again, it would only really show well on the edges, so you could probably get away with it if the shift was small.

That curved screen looks incredible...guess I'll try to build one for myself.

Thanks,

You're seeing a shadow of the procenium wall from the lights above. The curved screen is recessed inside the existing proscenium wall for the meantime.

Ruben


The talent on here just keeps amazing me. That screen is excellent!

I got a question for you 2.35:1 CH guys using an anamorphic lens.

My projector (Optoma H-79) is mounted on the bottom of my soffit. It is mounted upside down. The bottom of my soffit is exactly 12" from the top of my 2.35:1 CH screen. So the Optoma lens is about 8" above the top of my screen now. Up to now I have been using a lens shift to project on my screen.

I got my ISCO lens today and want to know what is the recommended height I should be from the PJs lens to the top of my screen now I got the ISCO? Should I drop my projector down 8" so the PJ lens lines up with the top of my screen without shifting it?

Thanks
Ruben

I found the thread about calculating screen curvature (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586590)....

Hey miltimj, I was just reading that thread and noticed someone posted a picture with a torus screen and I noticed the theater had Genelecs in them, in fact the same ones I was talking about using earlier on in this thread. That was interesting.

From that thread..

Being ill-informed and newly about to join the CH ranks (via AVS of course), I knew little of the "torus" screen characteristics. I did some research and now understand. I assume this is a good representation? (158" X 86"):

http://home.comcast.net/~flint350/torusscreen.jpg


I bet these suckers are expensive and hard to find.

I got a question for you 2.35:1 CH guys using an anamorphic lens.

My projector (Optoma H-79) is mounted on the bottom of my soffit. It is mounted upside down. The bottom of my soffit is exactly 12" from the top of my 2.35:1 CH screen. So the Optoma lens is about 8" above the top of my screen now. Up to now I have been using a lens shift to project on my screen.

I got my ISCO lens today and want to know what is the recommended height I should be from the PJs lens to the top of my screen now I got the ISCO? Should I drop my projector down 8" so the PJ lens lines up with the top of my screen without shifting it?

Thanks
Ruben
The lower you can get it without it being distracting, the easier time you will have adjusting. Its not a big deal. Its easy to get anal about this stuff but just throw the stuff where ever you want and it will work fine!

I tried returning the call to help you last night but I was delusional from spending 10 hours on a machine called a Dingo with a brush cutter attachment in 3 acres of poisen oak and briar filled fir trees yesterday, what an arse kicking that beast gave me, and ofcourse I am the only one in the family thats not allergic to Poisen Oak so I was lucky enough to try and make the best of a $150 rental. Then I sat there moaning and groaning while watching the Worlds Fastest Indian, how Ironic.

If you want to go over stuff I will be in at 10:00 am here, gimme a ring

Hey Mark, what did you think of World's Fastest Indian? I was thinking of getting it and figured since it was not real widely advertized, the DVD would get cheap fast.

...Then I sat there moaning and groaning while watching the Worlds Fastest Indian, how Ironic.

Looks like he didn't like it that much - or maybe he was talking about being sore... ;).

Why isn't Cuban (Mr HD) releasing his movies on HD-DVD?

I really enjoyed Worlds Fastest Indian, Hopkins playing Burt Monroe, how can you go wrong, I have friends that run Bonneville yearly and Burts always been a hero to all the folks into land speed records, My friend holds several for Fastest Flatheads and yes I felt as though I rode a bucking bronco for 10 hours and drenched in poisen oak , hence moaning and groaning

I really enjoyed Worlds Fastest Indian, Hopkins playing Burt Monroe, how can you go wrong and yes I felt as though I rode a bucking bronco for 10 hours

I was just calling You, pick up.

try again

Hey miltimj, I was just reading that thread and noticed someone posted a picture with a torus screen and I noticed the theater had Genelecs in them, in fact the same ones I was talking about using earlier on in this thread. That was interesting.

From that thread..
Yes, it digressed into a Torus thread, unfortunately (IMO). Though I absolutely agree that they provide the best for video, they sacrifice too much audio. Either you use a solid screen and you have a big satellite dish with a focus point which results in poor acoustics, or you use an AT screen with treatment behind it, but then you need even more vacuum power to pull the screen tight, and end up with the screen becoming one large filter grabbing dirt particles. I think I'll keep it simple, and go with a horizontally-curved screen at the most.

Ruben, are you concerned at all about the curved screen warping the image for viewers not perpendicular to it's center? I've read somewhere that this should be a consideraton when choosing a curved screen. I'm curious about a comparison between the severity of this type of distortion, versus the severity of distortion by sticking with a non-curved screen with an anamorphic lens.

If masking can eliminate all visible distortion with a non-curved screen, but curving the screen creates visible distortion for viewers on the side, then it would seem that choosing a curved screen wouldn't necessarily be an optimal choice.

EDIT: Basically wondering if you're trading the viewing experience from other seats for the viewing experience of the center seat.

Ruben, are you concerned at all about the curved screen warping the image for viewers not perpendicular to it's center? I've read somewhere that this should be a consideraton when choosing a curved screen. I'm curious about a comparison between the severity of this type of distortion, versus the severity of distortion by sticking with a non-curved screen with an anamorphic lens.

If masking can eliminate all visible distortion with a non-curved screen, but curving the screen creates visible distortion for viewers on the side, then it would seem that choosing a curved screen wouldn't necessarily be an optimal choice.

EDIT: Basically wondering if you're trading the viewing experience from other seats for the viewing experience of the center seat.

I got my ISCO 2 lens up last night so I was able to goof around with it. First off the curved frame I made with the string worked out fine. It flattened out the pincushion 100% at my short throw of 16 feet. Also before the ISCO, the maximum projected width I could get was 10 feet wide at my 16 foot throw distance with The Optoma H-79. Now with the ISCO on I can get like 15 feet wide and probably more :D

So now I can do my 12 foot wide 2.35:1 screen I wanted to do. I will now be using all the projectors pixels with a Lumagen HDQ scaler and ISCO lens. Plus my SmX audio transparent movie screen has a 1.16 gain which gives me a decently bright picture just about as bright as the Stewart Microperf Studiotek 130. However, a PJ upgrade is on the horizon in the near future (possibly the Optoma HD-81) which will give me a little more lumens to work with.

This Friday I am picking up the bent aluminum to make my final curved screen that will be trimmed out with black fideo velvet. I will post some some pictures of the outcome Friday night.

So far on the distortion, I cant comment on it yet because I have to lower my projector to eliminate the keystone.

Ruben

So far on the distortion, I cant comment on it yet because I have to lower my projector to eliminate the keystone.

Ok, I'll ask my question later then. :D

Are you going to leave the lens in place permanently? I'd assume so, since you're going with a curved screen.

Yes, it digressed into a Torus thread, unfortunately (IMO). Though I absolutely agree that they provide the best for video, they sacrifice too much audio. Either you use a solid screen and you have a big satellite dish with a focus point which results in poor acoustics, or you use an AT screen with treatment behind it, but then you need even more vacuum power to pull the screen tight, and end up with the screen becoming one large filter grabbing dirt particles. I think I'll keep it simple, and go with a horizontally-curved screen at the most.

So you need a fan to keep the screen taught, what about using a screen behind the screen? It would be like a large speaker grill type of mesh, that a spray adhesive could be applied to. For a single curve unit, this would probably be easy to accomplish. A dual curve would be a challenge, but you would maintain the shape and hopefully still be relatively acoustically transparent.

Keith

I got a couple PMs and emails from guys asking me what I was using to trim out my SmX screen frame. What I'm using for the screen trim is Black Fidelio Velvet. This stuff Is the blackest of black your going to get in any Velvet, Velour, Duvetyne, Felt, Suede, etc. This material is like a black hole outside in Floridas Bright Sun. I took some pictures of it outdoors on a bright sunny day out here in Florida. To get an idea how much light is hitting it, that is a Dark Purple Feather on the Fidelio velvet that is being washed out by the bright sun.

I ordered my Fidelio Velvet from HERE (http://www.bymichelle.com/fidelio.html) These are the only people I am aware of that carry it. They did a great packing job and sent me a large complimentary purple feather with the order :D

The back of the material is a dark black as well, so you can see how well of a job the Fidelio Velvet does rejecting light. I don't know of any projector that is more powerful than the sun. :)


http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09912.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09913.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09915.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09918.jpg

These last 2 shots are extreme close ups showing the lint on it.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09921.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/velvet-web/DSC09922.jpg

What a great multi-purpose device. Fabric roll holder by day and barbeque grill by night. :)

So you need a fan to keep the screen taught, what about using a screen behind the screen? It would be like a large speaker grill type of mesh, that a spray adhesive could be applied to. For a single curve unit, this would probably be easy to accomplish. A dual curve would be a challenge, but you would maintain the shape and hopefully still be relatively acoustically transparent.

Keith
For a single curve, there's no need for that.. just stretch across a frame that's curved along a single axis. For a torus, you'd need something solid to apply it to (such as a metal mesh, which is what I'm assuming you're suggesting). My guess is that gluing it to whatever service you've created with that curve will render the AT properties useless.

For a single curve, there's no need for that.. just stretch across a frame that's curved along a single axis. For a torus, you'd need something solid to apply it to (such as a metal mesh, which is what I'm assuming you're suggesting). My guess is that gluing it to whatever service you've created with that curve will render the AT properties useless.

Anyone do any testing to see how acoustically transparent the perforated metal is, such as what Ruben is using for his grilles in his columns?

The problem with the idea of using a metal mesh backing for a torus screen is how do you bend the metal mesh to the shape? I know nobody that can do that, unless there is a fixture and a very large press to form the metal to the shape around that form (mandrel).

Aren't torus screens for light uniformity on CRT projectors? I don't think anyone in todays digital age (DLP, LCD, LCOS, etc) is going to need a torus screen to make their picture any better. It may be a coolness factor thing for the digital guys to have a torus screen, but a way bigger PITA to make one than it's worth I would say. Although I may be dead wrong though due to my limited reading on them.

Ruben

Ruben,

Even today's digital projectors have light uniformity of less than 100%. They are much better than CRT's but still not perfect.

Russell

It's my understanding that the main benefit of a torus is the correct shape to eliminate pincushion, especially with anamorphic lenses.

The main benefit of Torus is reduction of hot spotting and color shift in high gain screens - something CRT users needed. With the CRT adjustments, pincushion was never an issue and even color shift could be adjusted for in some high end CRTs. Removing pincushion distortion is a side benefit for anamorphic lens use, but certainly not its main benefit.

There were people using Torus screens to get gains greater than 5.0 without hotspotting or color shift in the past. With today's projectors it just isn't an issue. Sure, there are projectors that calibrated properly will not put out much light, but it is still more cost effective to get a flat screen and a better projector if that is the case vs. the expense and hassle of Torus.

So back to the sub issue. For those of you that missed my post about my sub issues, I found out the amp on the sub was shot and the sub was shifting in and out of phase. So I sent the Amp plate of the sub out to Velodyne to repair. It cost me $240 to have them repair and update the amp to their new THX specs.

Well anyway I got the amp plate back on Friday and hooked it up to my sub and I get this really extremely loud earthquake rattling ground hum going on with nothing plugged in it except for the power cord. So changed settings on it several times and it did not fix it. So it looks like I have to send it back to Velodyne again. What a PITA.

Ruben

Float your ground (i.e. use a cheater plug) before you send it back in and see if that solves the problem.

With nothing plugged in but the power cord...that is not a ground loop issue (only happens with a signal line on it). I'd check to make sure the servo sensor is properly connected to the amp before sending it back. Then again, with a theater as good as yours...I'd humbly suggest selling the Velodyne and putting in a Danley DTS-20 for some REAL bass :D

With nothing plugged in but the power cord...that is not a ground loop issue (only happens with a signal line on it). I'd check to make sure the servo sensor is properly connected to the amp before sending it back. Then again, with a theater as good as yours...I'd humbly suggest selling the Velodyne and putting in a Danley DTS-20 for some REAL bass :D

Yeah, I was looking at those Danley's they are quite impressive. As MrPoindextor suggested, I will try a cheater plug and also check the servo sensor as well as you mentioned. If all fails, maybe I will go get 2 of those Danley's. :) BPape told me to get those a while back.

Ruben

Yeah, I was looking at those Danley's they are quite impressive. As MrPoindextor suggested, I will try a cheater plug and also check the servo sensor as well as you mentioned. If all fails, maybe I will go get 2 of those Danley's. :) BPape told me top get those a while back.

Ruben

Check your PM Re: Danley :D

Check your PM too :D

So back to the sub issue. For those of you that missed my post about my sub issues, I found out the amp on the sub was shot and the sub was shifting in and out of phase. So I sent the Amp plate of the sub out to Velodyne to repair. It cost me $240 to have them repair and update the amp to their new THX specs.

Well anyway I got the amp plate back on Friday and hooked it up to my sub and I get this really extremely loud earthquake rattling ground hum going on with nothing plugged in it except for the power cord. So changed settings on it several times and it did not fix it. So it looks like I have to send it back to Velodyne again. What a PITA.

Ruben
I have an HGS-18. It did that or something similar. It was a bad accelerometer on the driver. Whole sub had to go back from TN to CA :eek:

Too bad you are not closer to San Jose like I am. Velodyne is just around the corner and I actually considered working there as a designer one time, since they had a position open. I don't remember why I didn't go for it.

Ruben -

How about some new frame pictures?

Ruben -

How about some new frame pictures?

They are coming soon. I just got my Samsung Q1 tablet today to use with Cinemar for my theater/home remote automation. I will post some pictures of the Q1 shortly. Hopefully I get the new frame built by Wednesday, the Dazian CCC I got up now is way to dark with my projector and it is straining my eyes trying to read stuff during the Set ups.

Cinemar is real nice software and Mario (the owner) is real cool people. He personally walked me through setting up my system this afternoon, now that is some customer service! :)

Ruben

It is not likely a ground loop issue, but once in a great while you can get something going from the neutral and the ground on a three plug unit. Probably an accelerometer, though.

They are coming soon. I just got my Samsung Q1 tablet today to use with Cinemar for my theater/home remote automation. I will post some pictures of the Q1 shortly. Hopefully I get the new frame built by Wednesday, the Dazian CCC I got up now is way to dark with my projector and it is straining my eyes trying to read stuff during the Set ups.

Cinemar is real nice software and Mario (the owner) is real cool people. He personally walked me through setting up my system this afternoon, now that is some customer service! :)

Ruben


Ruben,

What features/issues made you decide to go with Mainlobby (Cinemar) over other control automation software like CQC?

Just Curious,

Billmac

Well today I ordered my Danley DTS-20 (http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DANLEY_dts20.htm) Sub and my Klipsch Ultra 2 THX (http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=774) surround system for my theater.

The Danley sub is used to reproduce the sound of jet engines so companies can make sound barriors. It does 15hz -10db and 18hz -3db. I'm going to power it with either a Crown XTI or Crown K1-K2. This should be the sub to end all subs (for me anyway)
This system should knock me on my ass :D

When the stuff arrives I will post some pictures.

Ruben

Ruben,

can you please pm me with the price you found on the Danley?

Thanks

Joe

Well today I ordered my Danley DTS-20 (http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DANLEY_dts20.htm) Sub and my Klipsch Ultra 2 THX (http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=774) surround system for my theater.

Ruben

The surrounds say:

Wide Dispersion Surround Technology array

Just curious, are they basically dipoles?

Regards
Frank

I can see it now, the room flexing "Matrix style" after the sub is turned on.

Lets face it, SandmanX is "The One". :D

Tell me the new speakers will fit in your beautiful columns without a major overhaul...again.

What now with the Martin Logan setup?

Andy

Ruben,

I know you are using cinemar as am I, but what did you end up going with for the handheld in the theater?

Joe

When the stuff arrives I will post some pictures.
RubenYeh, I've heard that one before... Where are the promised pictures (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7302164&&#post7302164) for your finished theater? :D

I can see it now, the room flexing "Matrix style" after the sub is turned on.

Lets face it, SandmanX is "The One". :D


Yeah and the scary part is...he originally thought about getting two from me. I encouraged him to get one and see if 125 db in room at 20hz was...um..."adequate". I can't be responsible when his roof falls down on his head during WOTW :eek:

The surrounds say:

Wide Dispersion Surround Technology array

Just curious, are they basically dipoles?

Regards
Frank

Not quite. The WDST surrounds are arrayed with the horns angled so that they essentially make the equivalent of a wide dispersion monopole...only with a 60 degree limited vertical dispersion. That is why we could use them in his back columns and why they work well on the sides as well. Very flexible little buggers! :D

one of the reviews of the Klipsch THX Ultra 2 system was to say the least.... impressive.
http://www.hemagazine.com/Product-Reviews/Speakers/Lord-of-the-Horns.asp
you should have no problems with output with this system...other than maybe too loud!! :p

sub=125db :cool:
you wanted 2 of those subs?? :eek:

Ruben,

I know you are using cinemar as am I, but what did you end up going with for the handheld in the theater?

Joe

This is what I am using, it just came out and everyone over at Cinemar is loving it so far. I like it allot as well. It is the Samsung Q1, trying to get one of these right now is like trying to get an xBox 360 last christmas :D Cinemar is writing specific scenes for it and will be selling it pre-loaded with their software.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/q1/DSC09973.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/q1/DSC09974.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/q1/DSC09977.jpg

Here is a link
http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/mobilecomputing/ultramobile/np_q1_v000suk.asp

Ruben

Ruben,

can you please pm me with the price you found on the Danley?

Thanks

Joe

Talk to Soundood, he really hooked me up big time.

Ruben

Tell me the new speakers will fit in your beautiful columns without a major overhaul...again.

What now with the Martin Logan setup?

Andy

Yes they do, that is why I went with 4 of those for the surrounds, they fit in my columns. The Genelecs weren't going to fit in my columns. 5 pairs of Logans I have are going on eBay/Audiogon.

Ruben

Ruben,

What features/issues made you decide to go with Mainlobby (Cinemar) over other control automation software like CQC?

Just Curious,

Billmac

The support and the ease of setup is why I like Cinemar. I also like that fact how easy It is to build custom scenes. The CQC I didn't follow to long because of the lack of information on their website.

Ruben

For power I am going with 4 Crown XTI 1000 pro amps to power the LCRs and surrounds and a Crown XTI 4000 for the Danley sub. I will be using one channel on the XTI 4000 to power the sub and the second channel will be used in the future for tactiles.

For processing I am doing the Outlaw 990.

Ruben

This is what I am using, it just came out and everyone over at Cinemar is loving it so far. I like it allot as well. It is the Samsung Q1, trying to get one of these right now is like trying to get an xBox 360 last christmas :D Cinemar is writing specific scenes for it and will be selling it pre-loaded with their software.


Ruben

Yes, mario told me about this one too. I had thought the recommendation was to NOT use a screen remote in the theater but use a remote with tactile buttons. Did that thought process change?

I have a viewsonic air panel that, with using terminal services on the server, functions very similarly to how I assume the Q1 fucntions using MLobby. It just uses the server for all of the processing.

I also noticed a little different dvdlobby on your screen. Did you fenagle yourself an early release or something?

Joe

Yes, mario told me about this one too. I had thought the recommendation was to NOT use a screen remote in the theater but use a remote with tactile buttons.

I have a viewsonic air panel that, with using terminal services on the server, functions very similarly to the Q1. It just uses the server for all of the processing.

I also noticed a little different dvdlobby on your screen. Did you fenagle yourself an early release or something?

Joe

Yeah I have the latest version. I also have Main Lobby 3. The regular remote works fine if your doing allot of channel changing. I am using this to control allot of stuff In my house. I am going to make custom Flash scenes for it too.

Ruben

For power I am going with 4 Crown XTI 1000 pro amps to power the LCRs and surrounds and a Crown XTI 4000 for the Danley sub. I will be using one channel on the XTI 4000 to power the sub and the second channel will be used in the future for tactiles.

For processing I am doing the Outlaw 990.

Ruben

Ruben,

I own a recording studio. One of my engineers told me that Crown was having a lot of trouble with their amps. I think it was overheating issues if I remember correctly. If you have not bought them yet you might want to check it out.

Joe

Ruben,

I own a recording studio. One of my engineers told me that Crown was having a lot of trouble with their amps. I think it was overheating issues if I remember correctly. If you have not bought them yet you might want to check it out.

Joe

What Crown model? I been hearing lots of good things about the XTI's being used in Home theaters, etc.

Ruben

What Crown model? I been hearing lots of good things about the XTI's being used in Home theaters, etc.

Ruben

Hmmm, I bet you are right. I bet they were referring to the pro-audio models. I will see what I can find out.

Joe

Ruben
I've been away a while, but last I checked you were contemplating replacing the Martin Logans. Lo and behold, you have, but how did you decide upon the Klipsch system and Crown amp?

Love the thread...

Ruben
I've been away a while, but last I checked you were contemplating replacing the Martin Logans. Lo and behold, you have, but how did you decide upon the Klipsch system and Crown amp?

Love the thread...

Just allot of reading reviews and talking to people about what I want. The logan system I always had, so I figured to give it a try and it didn't work out for me. For audio transparency nothing beats Logans IMO but transparency isn't working in my theater for movies. I want my movie experience to smack me in the face and punch me in the gut but yet be incredibly detailed, that's what made me go with the Klipsch Ultra 2 THX.

The reason for the Crown XTI's with the Klipsch is because Soundood thought they would work well with the Klipsch system and maybe he can chime In a little better here about it.

The reasons I went with the Danley for my sub is because it was BPapes first choice for a sub for my room, he actually suggested 2 of them :eek:
Soundood also suggested Danley for my room and I have read allot about them.

If I want to listen to good transparent music, I always have a logan system in another room for that. You guys pretty much know by now that I like quality stuff and if the Klipsch system doesn't perform to my expectations, you and e-Bay will be the first to know ;) .

Ruben

Hmmm, I bet you are right. I bet they were referring to the pro-audio models. I will see what I can find out.

Joe

I think you are talking about older analog Crown amps.
These XTI amps are digital as far as I know.

Hey, you've gone to the extreme with everything else about the room - why not the sub(s)! ;)

Hey Ruben, the good news is, it sounds like the sub will do the trick for you. Also, if you feel that you need to step it up a little, there is nothing wrong with getting another one and shoving it in there. I assume you are putting it behind the screen? Are you going to have it standing up or laying down?

What swayed you to the Outlaw...

Reason for the Crown XTi suggestion (which I am totally comfortable with) is that Ruben wanted a lot of punch and a lot of horsepower for X budget. He does a lot of recording in studio and when you get used to that type of impact, it is going to be hard to live without it (if he were my client from the get go, I would never have recommended the ML's to him knowing his background). When it comes to bang for the bucks, it is really hard to beat pro amps and hard to go wrong with Crown. The new XTi series is pretty impressive, both from features and for sound quality. Each amp has built in Parametric EQ's so Ruben can make some tweaks to each channel if necessary. The XTi 4000 happens to make a KILLER subwoofer amp with high damping factor and over a kilowatt per channel into 4 for just under a grand (the engineer at Danley recommends 1K as the correct power range for the DTS-20...double the RMS). For $499 each, the XTi 1000's at 275/ch are going to be hard to beat. Besides which, that amp is pretty hot and with Crown's rep...he'll have absolutely NO problem selling them if/when he is ready to try something else. Oh...and speaking of hot...my understanding is that the amps that are having some issues are the excessively MASSIVE I-Tech touring beasts. The problems are fleeting and only under absolutely INSANE conditions that would make most home amps go up in flames, leaving a pile of ash and metal shavings on the ground. Of the few thousand XTi's Crown has shipped, they say they have only exchanged a dozen of them...mostly for shipping damage.

My highest recommendation to him was Bryston...but for some reason he just doesn't want to spend 3 x the money right now. I figure I can wait a few months :D

Oh...and as for twin Danley's...while it sounds like a good idea, that single sub is enough to seriously do structural damage in his room. Though the gargantuan screen :eek: may lead you to think otherwise...Ruben's room isn't actually that large. I'm using one in a new demo theater I'm building that measures 23 x 38 x 10...nearly 3 X the cubic volume of Ruben's space. Having one in his room is like using a thermo nuclear bomb to knock down a small building...two would be just as much overkill and quite frankly he'd start having issues fitting them along with the speakers behind the screen.

I think you are talking about older analog Crown amps.
These XTI amps are digital as far as I know.

Actually, the XTi's are analog...but they use a digital switching power supply. That is now the de facto standard in pro amps because it keeps the weight down. When you are a roadie trying to move a case with 10 amps in it...you WANT the weight down!

Oh...and by the way, in case anybody was interested...according to the Crown guys, the XTi amps are made right here in the good ol' US of A :D

When we were originally talking about 2 of the Danley's, we had at one point discussed 1 centered on the front wall and 1 centered on the rear wall. With it's ratings, I'd agree that 1 is probably sufficient.

As I said though, nothing else in the room has been done just to be 'sufficient' :D

Bryan

Also, I realized how inefficient my Martin Logans were for my Theater. The Martin Logan Mains and Center are like 90db @ 1 meter and surrounds are 88 db @ 1 meter. The Klipsch THX's are like 97 - 98 db @ 1 meter all around the room LCR's and Surrounds.

On another note, no one ever told me to do a Martin Logan system in my dedicated theater, everyone I spoke with actually recommended not doing it. But I just moved my existing ML system to the theater to see what results I would get anyway.

I went with the Outlaw because I spoke to quite a few people who previously had higher end processors like Lexicon stuff and they switched to Outlaw and said it compared well to their previous high end processors. Plus the Outlaw 990 has the best switching system for my setup without going into 3rd party switching.

Ruben

Thanks Ruben...sounds good! Looking forward to your assessment

Also, I realized how inefficient my Martin Logans were for my Theater. The Martin Logan Mains and Center are like 90db @ 1 meter and surrounds are 88 db @ 1 meter. The Klipsch THX's are like 97 - 98 db @ 1 meter all around the room LCR's and Surrounds.

On another note, no one ever told me to do a Martin Logan system in my dedicated theater, everyone I spoke with actually recommended not doing it. But I just moved my existing ML system to the theater to see what results I would get anyway.

I went with the Outlaw because I spoke to quite a few people who previously had higher end processors like Lexicon stuff and they switched to Outlaw and said it compared well to their previous high end processors. Plus the Outlaw 990 has the best switching system for my setup without going into 3rd party switching.

Ruben
Ruben,I know that this a theater room but I can't phantom that the Klipsch would sound better with music.

Ruben,I know that this a theater room but I can't phantom that the Klipsch would sound better with music.

True, but after building and living with the theater for a while now, I realized I really don't listen to music in it, I have a Bose system for that quality musical sound anyway. :D

Ruben

Hey Mark P, can you send me those SmX Sound Screen audio test results you got done?

I saw you posted about them, but I never got a copy. I tried to call you as well.

Thanks
Ruben

Hey guys I got a question.

I never got a rope light installed in my light tray. I think White, Red or Blue light up there may be cool. I held off because I was going to do fiber optics up there so I can change the light to whatever color I wish, but the fiber optic boxes I need dont dim.

Are there any dimmable rope lights that change color?

Thanks
Ruben

Hey guys I got a question.

I never got a rope light installed in my light tray. I think White, Red or Blue light up there may be cool. I held off because I was going to do fiber optics up there so I can change the light to whatever color I wish, but the fiber optic boxes I need dont dim.

Are there any dimmable rope lights that change color?

Thanks
Ruben

Is your tray big enough for 3? One of each color? Then you could put each color on a diffrent zone on your grafik-eye and control them that way.

Joe

I went with the Outlaw because I spoke to quite a few people who previously had higher end processors like Lexicon stuff and they switched to Outlaw and said it compared well to their previous high end processors. Plus the Outlaw 990 has the best switching system for my setup without going into 3rd party switching.

Ruben

The Outlaw just also happens to have dual subwoofer output in 7.1 mode. Hmmm, makes one wonder, huh? ;)

Joe

Sandman, you might want to do a google search for EL wire. Car customizers have been using it for years. It's a thin Electroluminescent Wire that glows pretty bright similar to neon but not quite that bright. They're fairly thin so I would imagine you could put a lot of different colors in your light tray.

Flan

I think White, Red or Blue light up there may be cool. I held off because I was going to do fiber optics up there so I can change the light to whatever color I wish, but the fiber optic boxes I need dont dim.

Are there any dimmable rope lights that change color?

Thanks
Ruben

While I just have the standard white, I suggest to one person a few years back that they install red, green and blue rope lights and use a Grafik Eye to change the colors as needed, or even have the room change over a period of two hours (or is the max length of scene change time an hour?). Don't know how well it would work, but if you are using the primary colors(kinda), you may be able to get some nice effects.

Mark P just forwarded me the SmX Audio Tests that were done by Kevin Haskins.

I posted the lab results for all the guys who were lucky enough to get the SmX and wanted to see the audio test results.

http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131

Ruben

Sandman, you might want to do a google search for EL wire. Car customizers have been using it for years. It's a thin Electroluminescent Wire that glows pretty bright similar to neon but not quite that bright. They're fairly thin so I would imagine you could put a lot of different colors in your light tray.

Flan

Just be a little careful who you buy EL wire from. A lot of the Chinese imports are pretty horrific in terms of QC and I'd be worried about fire. Also, EL wire doesn't have anywhere near the life span of a lot of rope and certainly not LED rope.

As for dimming LED rope...it can be done but you may need special dimming drivers. If you get regular rope light, you can dim it all day long, but LED is a special case. LED runs cooler and is WAY more efficient, but dimming is the Achilles heel since you don't reduce the voltage to dim them. Instead, you have to modulate the frequency.

I finally gave up and will just have my LED rope (using it for edge markers on my risers) come on soon as my main lights dim down. Since LED rope isn't as bright...you won't really notice when it comes on...you'll just notice it once the lights are all down.

Ruben,I know that this a theater room but I can't phantom that the Klipsch would sound better with music.

You might be VERY surprised by the Ultra 2 speakers. I've sold and owned a TON of planars and ESL's over the years and the Ultra 2's are really quite good. They are very smooth, neutral and effortless and are incredible on music with big dynamic swings. Read some of the many reviews, most comment very favorably on the music performance of the Ultra 2 system. For home cinema use...they are flat out scary.

For home cinema use...they are flat out scary.

I can't wait to be scared :)

I haven't heard the Ultra 2s (just about everything under them in the Klipsch line, though), but those that I did hear from Klipsch were very bright for my tastes.. I wonder if it was just the configuration, or if the Ultra 2s would be slightly more laid back, or if I just don't like the way horns sound.

Very crafty. I just got through looking in your post. Amazing. I have drive like crazy now to start my HT. GREAT JOB!

I haven't heard the Ultra 2s (just about everything under them in the Klipsch line, though), but those that I did hear from Klipsch were very bright for my tastes.. I wonder if it was just the configuration, or if the Ultra 2s would be slightly more laid back, or if I just don't like the way horns sound.
That is the problem I had with klipsch I found them to be very bright.Ultra 2s might be different from the usaual klipsch sound

Very crafty. I just got through looking in your post. Amazing. I have drive like crazy now to start my HT. GREAT JOB!

Thanks!

Ruben

I haven't heard the Ultra 2s (just about everything under them in the Klipsch line, though), but those that I did hear from Klipsch were very bright for my tastes.. I wonder if it was just the configuration, or if the Ultra 2s would be slightly more laid back, or if I just don't like the way horns sound.

Well I will be the first to tell you how they perform when I get them. It will be coming from a guy who owns 5 pairs of Logans, 1 pair or B &W 802d's and a few Genelecs.


Ruben

I went to see Superman tonight, I thought it could of been much better. I caught myself falling asleep several times throughout the movie and the ending was pretty lame.

Ruben

Damn, thats not good. I was hoping it would have been as good as the remake of batman.

Oh well, scatch that off my list of things to see.

Damn, thats not good. I was hoping it would have been as good as the remake of batman.

Oh well, scatch that off my list of things to see.

Man, I was hoping the same. Batman Begins pratically got a standing ovation at the end of the movie. Superman had an excited audience before it started but people left quietly at the end. There was no oohs and ahhhs throughout the entire movie.

Ruben

Batman Begins spoiled us. I now expect every comic book based movie to be like that.

Man, I was hoping the same. Batman Begins pratically got a standing ovation at the end of the movie. Superman had an excited audience before it started but people left quietly at the end. There was no oohs and ahhhs throughout the entire movie.

Ruben

That sucks. I was hoping for much more. Batman got some pretty good applause when I saw it at the movies.

Need your help guys,

I went to Lowes and picked up some rope light and liked the blue ropelight the best for my light trays. The blue rope light illuminates the ceiling nicely and hides the corners unlike the white light. I need about 75 feet of it for my trays.

What is the best blue Rope Light to get? Home Depot, Lowes, online?
Are some brighter than others?
If I double it up will it work better?

Thanks
Ruben

Need your help guys,

I went to Lowes and picked up some rope light and liked the blue ropelight the best for my light trays. The blue rope light illuminates the ceiling nicely and hides the corners unlike the white light. I need about 75 feet of it for my trays.

What is the best blue Rope Light to get? Home Depot, Lowes, online?
Are some brighter than others?
If I double it up will it work better?

Thanks
Ruben

Got my 150' of ropelight at 1000 Bulbs (http://www.1000bulbs.com) for less than $75.

Dunno if they have blue though.

Need your help guys,

I went to Lowes and picked up some rope light and liked the blue ropelight the best for my light trays. The blue rope light illuminates the ceiling nicely and hides the corners unlike the white light. I need about 75 feet of it for my trays.

What is the best blue Rope Light to get? Home Depot, Lowes, online?
Are some brighter than others?
If I double it up will it work better?

Thanks
Ruben
Ruben,

If you want to get the best stuff out there today -- it's LED lights. They will never burn out, run extreemly cool, are very bright and are 110volt. However, you will need to have a special dimmer to dim them -- which I think your GraficEye can handle.

This is a local Dallas company. One other guy that built a HT here in town used their LED products and was very happy. The disadvantage is the cost for these is about 3x the price of standard rope lighting.

LED Rope Light Source (http://www.wiedamark.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=201)

What happens to these when a single bulb burns out? Are they wired in serial so that they all go out? Or just the one.

Joe

What happens to these when a single bulb burns out? Are they wired in serial so that they all go out? Or just the one.

Joe
Joe,

Honestly, I do not know. But my guess is they are run in series so it one did burn out, the rest would continue to work.

Ruben -

From the 1000 bulbs website mentioned above -

blue led rope light (http://www.1000bulbs.com/product.php?product=9164)

Kevin

Oops - just noticed you only need 75 feet. Since this is for 150 ft roll I guess you could double up and double the intensity..

Here is a shot with the Loews blue rope light. This is one run of rope, not doubled up yet, I really think its fine on its own.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/rope-light.jpg

Here is a shot with the Loews blue rope light.

TOO cool.....

[QUOTE=SandmanX]Here is a shot with the Loews blue rope light. This is one run of rope, not doubled up yet, I really think its fine on its own.
/QUOTE]

It looks great. Why would you look for anything else? Wasn't it cheap enough so that if it burns out you just buy another one?

Joe

That looks fantastic Ruben, the blue gives it a nice touch.

Yeah - I may be heading down to pick up a blue one now...

Thanks guys.

They are $15 for a 24 foot run. You can connect multiple ropes together. I used a Romex wire stapler to secure the rope to the soffit wall (much faster and easier than clips). I mounted the rope light half way up the soffit wall inside the tray for the fullest shadowless illumination and to keep the rope away from the hot light cans in the soffits.

Ruben

Also forgot to mention, I got my Outlaw 990 Processor and Lumagen Vision HDQ scaler in last week. I'm just waiting on the custom rack shelf for the Outlaw 990 now to install the Outlaw in my rack. I ordered and received rack ears for the Lumagen directly from Lumagen so that is all set.

My 5 crown amps are going to go in another rack right outside my theater on the side wall of my theater rack. They will be covered with a velour curtain.

Ruben

That looks fantastic Ruben, the blue gives it a nice touch.

Thanks, I also tried the clear rope light from loews but it gave me an unwanted yellowish/orangish light that showed all the corners and seams up in the light tray. The blue rope illuminated nicely without highlighting the corners and seams up there. It also gives you that moonlight effect with the blue rope.

Ruben

Thanks guys.

They are $15 for a 24 foot run. You can connect multiple ropes together. I used a Romex wire stapler to secure the rope to the soffit wall (much faster and easier than clips). I mounted the rope light half way up the soffit wall inside the tray for the fullest shadowless illumination and to keep the rope away from the hot light cans in the soffits.

Ruben

I ran outlets every 5 feet along the inside of the tray. And on a number of them I split the plugs between 2 grafik-eye zones so I could control the down-lights seperately from the rope lights.

Thanks so much for the pic of the blue rope light. I was planning on white until I saw your pic.

Joe

My 5 crown amps are going to go in another rack right outside my theater on the side wall of my theater rack. They will be covered with a velour curtain.

Ruben

5 amps gives you 10 channels. What are you going to use all of them for?

Joe

5 amps gives you 10 channels. What are you going to use all of them for?

Joe

Four Crown XTI 1000 amps for the 7 channels L, C, R, RS, LS, RBS, LBS. One channel of the Crown XTI 4000 for the Danley the other channel for tactiles in the future.

I had a hard time getting them too. Everyone is out of them and Crown won't have them back in stock for another month. I lucked out by calling a company I deal with for other things that had 6 1,000's and 2 4000's in stock that they special ordered for a customer that backed out of the order at the last minute.

Ruben

Oh, also I posted this earlier but it got lost with the forum backups today.

You guys also have to remember, I am using black GOM on my ceiling and in my light trays. The light doesn't spread as well due to this. However it looks great as you can see. It will spread even better on a painted surface such as a dark blue or possibly black painted ceiling.

This rope works best against light painted colors due to better reflection, thus better spread of light. The black GoM sucks the light up big time.

Ruben

Four Crown XTI 1000 amps for the 7 channels L, C, R, RS, LS, RBS, LBS. One channel of the Crown XTI 4000 for the Danley the other channel for tactiles in the future.


Ruben

That leaves one spare. Without looking I would guess the Danley takes 2 though, doesn't it?

Joe

It only takes one channel, but if I were Ruben, I'd bridge two-channels until he gets tactiles.

Ruben, the blue rope light looks fantastic! I wouldn't want it any other way. The way it fades to black is unbelievable! When you mentioned using ML's for your speakers I knew you were going to have problems with powering them. Are you sure you have enough power for all the Crown amps and the rest of your equipment?

Ruben, That blue ropelight is AWSOME!!!! Thats the coolest damn thing I have seen in a while. I have often wondered about the different colors of rope lights and thier effects, but never seen them in action. I have a feeling there will be a lot more blue going in after this.


Can you give me a little info on the settings you used to take that pic? Im assuming its a digital camera. Any Photoshop wizardry in there?

Ronnie

Ruben, the blue rope light looks fantastic! I wouldn't want it any other way. The way it fades to black is unbelievable! When you mentioned using ML's for your speakers I knew you were going to have problems with powering them. Are you sure you have enough power for all the Crown amps and the rest of your equipment?

Plenty of power. The Klipschs handle 150 watts RMS continuous / 600 peak (8 ohms)and the Crowns XTI-1000's do 275 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms.

The Crown XTI-4000 does 650 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms. Danley recommends an amp that does 500w continuous. I was told not to bridge it due to dampening factors.

Ruben

Ruben, That blue ropelight is AWSOME!!!! Thats the coolest damn thing I have seen in a while. I have often wondered about the different colors of rope lights and thier effects, but never seen them in action. I have a feeling there will be a lot more blue going in after this.


Can you give me a little info on the settings you used to take that pic? Im assuming its a digital camera. Any Photoshop wizardry in there?

Ronnie

Thanks Ronnie! I was really impressed how it turned out. I honestly thought the rope light was going to suck until i got it up there and saw it in action. I was going to do fiber optics instead, but they dont have dimmers for the light box I needed. All & all, it worked out really good.

I was previously using a Sony DSC-707 Cybershot (5 Megapixels) to document my theater construction. It is a pretty simple camera with not much settings to capture night shots and no changable lens. I originally paid $1k for it a few years ago. My friend recently dropped it and broke the flash on it so I said it was time to get a new camera. This is what the sony looked like.

http://www.sony.com.au/objects/600x400/DSCF707_1.jpg

So a friend of mine is a pro photographer and I asked him what was his main favorite digital camera. I used him for some photo shoots and almost every picture he takes out of 500 or so pictures is always crispy clear. So I found out he uses the Canon Rebel XT EOS 8 megapixel digital camera as his main digital camera. It has all the bells and whistles plus interchangable lens's just like a professional SLR film camera. So I searched on eBay and found one brand new with an 18 - 55mm zoom lens and 1 gig smart card, wide angle lens adapter and a bunch of other extra stuff for $750.00. Here is a picture of it...

http://static.flickr.com/8/10907517_4127728933_o.jpg

The Canon Rebel XT takes incredibly clear pictures. It has night time presets and other presets to get the best pictures. So that rope light picture was one of the first night time shots I took with it. You have to put the camera on a stand so it can capture the picture like that. I used the Twi-Light setting on it and the shutter stays open for about 10 seconds. If your slightly moving the camera around in that setting, the picture comes out blurry. That's why a stand is needed. Also, that picture is with no flash and only the lights in the theater on low and the rope on high. I also had the wide angle lens attachment on it for that shot.

Ruben

It only takes one channel, but if I were Ruben, I'd bridge two-channels until he gets tactiles.

Yeah, it was recommended not to bridge the amp with the Danley due to dampening reasons. However, bridging that XTI 4000 gives you 2400W RMS into 8 ohms. I can always give it a try and see how I like it.

Ruben

Thanks Ronnie! I was really impressed how it turned out. I honestly thought the rope light was going to suck until i got it up there and saw it in action. I was going to do fiber optics instead, but they dont have dimmers for the light box I needed. All & all, it worked out really good.

I was previously using a Sony DSC-707 Cybershot (5 Megapixels) to document my theater construction. It is a pretty simple camera with not much settings to capture night shots and no changable lens. I originally paid $1k for it a few years ago. My friend recently dropped it and broke the flash on it so I said it was time to get a new camera. This is what the sony looked like.

http://www.sony.com.au/objects/600x400/DSCF707_1.jpg

So a friend of mine is a pro photographer and I asked him what was his main favorite digital camera. I used him for some photo shoots and almost every picture he takes out of 500 or so pictures is always crispy clear. So I found out he uses the Canon Rebel XT EOS 8 megapixel digital camera as his main digital camera. It has all the bells and whistles plus interchangable lens's just like a professional SLR film camera. So I searched on eBay and found one brand new with an 18 - 55mm zoom lens and 1 gig smart card, wide angle lens adapter and a bunch of other extra stuff for $750.00. Here is a picture of it...

http://static.flickr.com/8/10907517_4127728933_o.jpg

The Canon Rebel XT takes incredibly clear pictures. It has night time presets and other presets to get the best pictures. So that rope light picture was one of the first night time shots I took with it. You have to put the camera on a stand so it can capture the picture like that. I used the Twi-Light setting on it and the shutter stays open for about 30 seconds. If your slightly moving the camera around in that setting, the picture comes out blurry. That's why a stand is needed. Also, that picture is with no flash and only the lights in the theater on low and the rope on high. I also had the wide angle lens attachment on it for that shot.

Ruben


Thanks SandmanX. I am very familiar with the digital Rebel cameras. I agree they are nice. Inexpensive also.

I have a nice Olympus fixed lens (C3030), but plan to upgrade to the DSLR soon. The Rebel is one of my choices. I am also looking at the Nikon and Minolta, but they cost a little more.

I was really interested in the aperature settings, etc that you used. I guess since you used one of the automatic settings for twilight, you probably didnt take note of the exact settings. I use to do a lot of photography with a standard slr and found that 1 second at f4.5 using 100 speed film yeilded excellent nighttime pictures of christmas lights, street lights, etc. Of course anything under about 1/60 sec and you definately need a tripod.

I am glad you like the Rebel. There are tons of accesories for it. You should check out the battery pack that fits it like a motor drive. Its an excellent upgrade.

Ronnie

Thanks SandmanX. I am very familiar with the digital Rebel cameras. I agree they are nice. Inexpensive also.

I have a nice Olympus fixed lens (C3030), but plan to upgrade to the DSLR soon. The Rebel is one of my choices. I am also looking at the Nikon and Minolta, but they cost a little more.

I was really interested in the aperature settings, etc that you used. I guess since you used one of the automatic settings for twilight, you probably didnt take note of the exact settings. I use to do a lot of photography with a standard slr and found that 1 second at f4.5 using 100 speed film yeilded excellent nighttime pictures of christmas lights, street lights, etc. Of course anything under about 1/60 sec and you definately need a tripod.

I am glad you like the Rebel. There are tons of accesories for it. You should check out the battery pack that fits it like a motor drive. Its an excellent upgrade.

Ronnie

I opened up the photo in one of the Canon's photo utilities to get the info on the picture. Here you go...

Tv (Shutter Speed) 10 Seconds
Av (Aperture Value) F3.5
Metering Mode - Evaluative metering
Exposure Compensation - 0
ISO Speed 400
White Balance - Auto
AF mode - AI focus AF
Focal Length - 18.0mm
Image Size - 1728 x 1152
Image Quality - Fine
Contrast - 1
Sharpness - 1
Color Saturation - 1
Color Space - sRGB

Hope that helps

Ruben

The Rebel is one of my choices. I am also looking at the Nikon and Minolta, but they cost a little more.

The real nice thing about the Rebel XT vs my previous camera is you don't miss that Kodak moment. That sony 707 use to take 3 - 4 seconds to take a picture and 10 seconds in between pictures when using a flash. This Rebel XT takes pictures like a machine gun. Even super fast with the flash too. You can hold your finger on the button and snap 3 - 4 shots per second. That comes in real handy at certain times.

Also, my friend shoots allot of top celeb chicks in his studio. He is Jenna Jamesons personal camera man and shoots Carman Electra and a bunch of other chicks as well. He says that all the pro's he knows use the Rebel XT for digital. He also has $2,000 lens's for his Rebel XT. I'm actually going to borrow his CANON EF 14mm f2.8L ultra-wideangle lens. I was gonna buy one but they are $1,800 new and I don't take that many pictures to justify spending that on a piece of glass :D

Ruben

It only takes one channel, but if I were Ruben, I'd bridge two-channels until he gets tactiles.

In talking to the chief engineer at Danley, they recommend not bridging since you half the damping when you do that. They recommend more control vs more horsepower. Their highest recommendation was the Crown I-Tech I-T4000 which is 1250/ch into 8 with a damping factor of >5000...but that puppy isn't cheap. The XTi should work really well with the DTS20 since with the load the sub presents, Ruben should be looking at somewhere close to a kilowatt out of one channel...about right power wise (double RMS). He should be able to hit 120 db+ at 20 hz without clipping, assuming his room will handle it. His sub should be there this coming week so everbody should expect pictures :D.

Kind of OT a little, since it's a good 60 pages back since the star ceiling was done , but ....

Can you recall how many feet of fibre cable you used.

I do recall that you bought too much and sold off the surplus.

Just curious, as I have a room roughly the same size, and want to check my math.

He is Jenna Jamesons personal camera man
Ruben

That's a coincedence. I am fairly confident we did some 3D lenticular of Jenna. (I own a UV printing company.) I bet we used his photos as the source material.

Joe

He should be able to hit 120 db+ at 20 hz without clipping, assuming his room will handle it.

Don't forget, Ruben is looking for the EMT effect from his sub :D

Joe

Kind of OT a little, since it's a good 60 pages back since the star ceiling was done , but ....

Can you recall how many feet of fibre cable you used.

I do recall that you bought too much and sold off the surplus.

Just curious, as I have a room roughly the same size, and want to check my math.

I think that is going to depend on where you can put the light can(s). I believe that Ruben used 2 cans and put them in the front columns. That wouldn't work for me, I had to put mine behind the screen up in the corner.

The company that Ruben purchased from also has a new cable that I don't think was available then. It has different sizes of fibers already build in it so you can make larger stars without having to use multiple fibers.

I think the big part of the cable length calulcation is the number of stars you need and how that divides into the fibers available in the cable. for example, if you need 1 star more than the fibers available you just doubled the length of one of the length of cable you need.

Joe

Wow, 10 second exposure - that's the ticket. My old Olympus E-10 DSLR is a great camera but it was one of the first and doesn't have that range of exposure settings. I've had my hand poised to buy one of those Cannon's several times. This may just do it...

Wow, looks great.

In talking to the chief engineer at Danley, they recommend not bridging since you half the damping when you do that. They recommend more control vs more horsepower. Their highest recommendation was the Crown I-Tech I-T4000 which is 1250/ch into 8 with a damping factor of >5000...but that puppy isn't cheap. The XTi should work really well with the DTS20 since with the load the sub presents, Ruben should be looking at somewhere close to a kilowatt out of one channel...about right power wise (double RMS). He should be able to hit 120 db+ at 20 hz without clipping, assuming his room will handle it. His sub should be there this coming week so everbody should expect pictures :D.

I just got confirmation that my Danley sub will be delivered this Wednesday.
Pictures will be coming soon.

Ruben

Kind of OT a little, since it's a good 60 pages back since the star ceiling was done , but ....

Can you recall how many feet of fibre cable you used.

I do recall that you bought too much and sold off the surplus.

Just curious, as I have a room roughly the same size, and want to check my math.

I think I ended up using 175 feet of the EG-50 fiber cable. The light boxes were In the top of my columns (which I recommend against doing). They are hot noisy boxes and I had to modify them to make them quiet and cool. You should consider installing them outside your theater room in a place they can breath.

Ruben

That's a coincedence. I am fairly confident we did some 3D lenticular of Jenna. (I own a UV printing company.) I bet we used his photos as the source material.

Joe

You probably did ;)

Wow, 10 second exposure - that's the ticket. My old Olympus E-10 DSLR is a great camera but it was one of the first and doesn't have that range of exposure settings. I've had my hand poised to buy one of those Cannon's several times. This may just do it...

Yes the Rebel XT is a nice piece of equipment to own. I love it and to me it was worth every penny. The only other thing I would ask for is an optional LCD viewfinder like my Sony had. That was quite convenient not having to put your eye up to the viewfinder all the time.

Ruben

Wow, looks great.


Thanks.

I have to catch up to Bud on the replies. So I guess I need to reply to everyones post like he does for now on to catch up!! ;) :D :eek:

Ruben

Thanks for the exposure info on the pic Ruben. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Thats an amazing pic for an automatic setting. I would think you would normally have to go to manual mode to get that kind of shot. I know I do with my current digital camera.

Ronnie

I have to catch up to Bud on the replies. So I guess I need to reply to everyones post like he does for now on to catch up!! ;) :D :eek:

Ruben

I heard that! There's one freebie post! I only said that to see if you were still watching!

Bud

I heard that! There's one freebie post! I only said that to see if you were still watching!

Bud

I'm always watching, you can be sure of that!

Ruben

I mounted the rope light half way up the soffit wall inside the tray for the fullest shadowless illumination and to keep the rope away from the hot light cans in the soffits.

Ruben

Ruben,

How high is your soffit wall (from ceiling gom to bottom inside of tray), and how high is the light tray wall.

Thanks

Joe

I think that is going to depend on where you can put the light can(s). I believe that Ruben used 2 cans and put them in the front columns. That wouldn't work for me, I had to put mine behind the screen up in the corner.

The company that Ruben purchased from also has a new cable that I don't think was available then. It has different sizes of fibers already build in it so you can make larger stars without having to use multiple fibers.

I think the big part of the cable length calulcation is the number of stars you need and how that divides into the fibers available in the cable. for example, if you need 1 star more than the fibers available you just doubled the length of one of the length of cable you need.

Joe


Thanks for that.

I think I will also use two light engines, as the number of fibres I need to run is more than the one engine will hold.

I was thinking of going with the Starpak cable, and making my panel size so that one bundle of 48 pretty much covers one panel. It should keep things a little easier for the fibre runs. If I need an extra fibre or two for a panel I figureed I would just open up one of the bundles of 48 and take what I needed.

I think I ended up using 175 feet of the EG-50 fiber cable. The light boxes were In the top of my columns (which I recommend against doing). They are hot noisy boxes and I had to modify them to make them quiet and cool. You should consider installing them outside your theater room in a place they can breath.

Ruben


Thanks Ruben. My calculations had me at about 190 feet, so I guess I'm not too far off.

Luckily I have access the ceiling space above the HT room so I plan on putting the light boxes up in the ceiling space.

Sandman the lights look great ,I was about to get the white rope lights but I just might have to change my plan.I have the 075 seats and I'm about to build the riser and noticed that I have to make the riser 7 ft deep.I just want to know what size your riser is and do you get full extension on them if it's less than 7ft..I'm used to reading about risers being 6 ft. Last,I was looking into the outlaw 990 and wanted to know if you compared it to anything else.

Ruben,

How high is your soffit wall (from ceiling gom to bottom inside of tray), and how high is the light tray wall.

Thanks

Joe

The Soffit wall is roughly 10" tall inside dimensions and the light tray wall is 5" tall. To build the soffit walls I started with pre-cut 12" x 96" MDF from Home Depot.

Ruben

Thanks for that.

I think I will also use two light engines, as the number of fibres I need to run is more than the one engine will hold.

I was thinking of going with the Starpak cable, and making my panel size so that one bundle of 48 pretty much covers one panel. It should keep things a little easier for the fibre runs. If I need an extra fibre or two for a panel I figureed I would just open up one of the bundles of 48 and take what I needed.

Two light boxes is a must unless you are going with one big light box. I used 2 light boxes because it broke up the simmering of the stars better. The twinkle is caused by a spinning wheel with multiple holes inside the light box. I have 12 fiberoptic light panels on my ceiling and 6 of them go to each light box.

The starpak cable looks cool. How much is it per foot? The stuff I got was $4.35 a foot. To make stars brighter and darker, I just adjusted how much fiber was exposed.

Ruben

Sandman the lights look great ,I was about to get the white rope lights but I just might have to change my plan.I have the 075 seats and I'm about to build the riser and noticed that I have to make the riser 7 ft deep.I just want to know what size your riser is and do you get full extension on them if it's less than 7ft..I'm used to reading about risers being 6 ft. Last,I was looking into the outlaw 990 and wanted to know if you compared it to anything else.

Thanks.

My risers are 7 feet deep.

The Outlaw 990 is still sealed in the box, I haven't even opened it. I am waiting for my custom rack shelf for it to arrive before I rack it.

Ruben

Thanks Ruben. My calculations had me at about 190 feet, so I guess I'm not too far off.

Luckily I have access the ceiling space above the HT room so I plan on putting the light boxes up in the ceiling space.

I originally ordered 300 feet of fiber cable and ended selling the left over 131 feet of it. So that's how I got 170 feet as what I used. I also used 8 strand fiber for my shooting stars.

Ruben

That's a coincedence. I am fairly confident we did some 3D lenticular of Jenna. (I own a UV printing company.) I bet we used his photos as the source material.

Joe

Yeah, I was just with her a few weeks ago helping her out at her booth at Exxxotica in Miami. She has a real real lot of fans :eek: . I have a bunch of pictures from that day but they are not family orientated :) Here are a few that are ok for the family from inside her booth...

Here is Jenna signing autographs...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/jenna/DSC09809.jpg

The guy on the left with the expensive gold watch is Jennas husband Jay.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/jenna/DSC09819.jpg

Here is a friend of mine with a couple Club Jenna chicks...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/jenna/DSC09829.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/jenna/DSC09833.jpg

Club Jenna give aways...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/jenna/DSC09837.jpg

Best shot here, this is when everyone found out SandmanX was in the building, they were all taking my picture LOL...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/jenna/DSC09838.jpg

Ruben

Oh MY!!!!!!

Maybe you can throw up the other pics somewhere for us ;)

Ronnie

Happy 4th everyone.

Ruben

Two light boxes is a must unless you are going with one big light box. I used 2 light boxes because it broke up the simmering of the stars better. The twinkle is caused by a spinning wheel with multiple holes inside the light box. I have 12 fiberoptic light panels on my ceiling and 6 of them go to each light box.

The starpak cable looks cool. How much is it per foot? The stuff I got was $4.35 a foot. To make stars brighter and darker, I just adjusted how much fiber was exposed.

Ruben

The Starpak which has 32 X .75mm, 10 X .5mm and 6 X 1.5mm fibres all jacketed together is only $3.10 a foot. Kind of strange, as it seems like it should cost more.

For the shooting star/fireworks module they sell, it looks like you could run 3 or more stars off the same unit. Did you only do one star ? - How long was the path from start to finish.

Does it look good, and add to the "wow" factor, or would you not bother if you did things over ?

And finally :) I assume you drive the light boxes from the graphic eye ? Do you have them assigned as a simple on/off zone, or do you let the GE fade them in and out ?

The Starpak which has 32 X .75mm, 10 X .5mm and 6 X 1.5mm fibres all jacketed together is only $3.10 a foot. Kind of strange, as it seems like it should cost more.

For the shooting star/fireworks module they sell, it looks like you could run 3 or more stars off the same unit. Did you only do one star ? - How long was the path from start to finish.

Does it look good, and add to the "wow" factor, or would you not bother if you did things over ?

And finally :) I assume you drive the light boxes from the graphic eye ? Do you have them assigned as a simple on/off zone, or do you let the GE fade them in and out ?

I am glad you asked about the shooting star. I thought that the price was way too high for their shooting star ight source and found hese folks LED Kits (http://store.qkits.com/category.cfm/LED) I was looking at the FK151 or the FK157. (I had forgot about the research until now.)

Joe

The Starpak which has 32 X .75mm, 10 X .5mm and 6 X 1.5mm fibres all jacketed together is only $3.10 a foot. Kind of strange, as it seems like it should cost more.

For the shooting star/fireworks module they sell, it looks like you could run 3 or more stars off the same unit. Did you only do one star ? - How long was the path from start to finish.

Does it look good, and add to the "wow" factor, or would you not bother if you did things over ?

And finally :) I assume you drive the light boxes from the graphic eye ? Do you have them assigned as a simple on/off zone, or do you let the GE fade them in and out ?

Yeah, maybe the spot I got it from is over charging? Maybe prices dropped? I set up 7 random shooting stars. They range from 24" long to 72" long. I tested one out and it looks real cool. I still have to order my LED shooting star controllers, I will get around to it shortly. It really does add a WOW factor to the ceiling, especially when it's random shooting stars that run at random times.

My light boxes were modified, my friend did something to them so they run quiet and are dimmable with the Grafik Eye. You really need to dim them during a movie because 600 stars on full blast light up the room on their own. So I dim them down during movies. I can't tell you what mods my friend did, I have no clue, the guy dissapeared on me.


Ruben

The Danley Sub arrives today (Wednesday).
I will be posting some pictures of it after it arrives.

Ruben

Yeah, maybe the spot I got it from is over charging? Maybe prices dropped? I set up 7 random shooting stars. They range from 24" long to 72" long. I tested one out and it looks real cool. I still have to order my LED shooting star controllers, I will get around to it shortly. It really does add a WOW factor to the ceiling, especially when it's random shooting stars that run at random times.

My light boxes were modified, my friend did something to them so they run quiet and are dimmable with the Grafik Eye. You really need to dim them during a movie because 600 stars on full blast light up the room on their own. So I dim them down during movies. I can't tell you what mods my friend did, I have no clue, the guy dissapeared on me.


Ruben

1) Where did you get your stuff from - Fiberoptic Products ?

2) When you dim the light boxes, does the twinkle speed slow down ? Or do you turn off the twinkle before dimming ? I suspect the mod your buddy did would have been to dim only the light. Dimming (reducing) the voltage to the whole unit would also cause the rotating wheel to slow down.

I am glad you asked about the shooting star. I thought that the price was way too high for their shooting star ight source and found hese folks LED Kits (http://store.qkits.com/category.cfm/LED) I was looking at the FK151 or the FK157. (I had forgot about the research until now.)

Joe


The FK151 looks like it has possibilities. The shooting star kit at fibreoptic products seems way overpriced for what it is.

Dimming (reducing) the voltage to the whole unit would also cause the rotating wheel to slow down.

I bet you are right. I will have todo that mod too.

Joe

My Danley sub arrived this morning. It's a pretty huge sub. It's 18" x 20" x 88" tall. It was poorly packed with some lose cardboard and empty boxes and a few pieces of foam around on the bottom as a buffer on 2 pallets. Danley said the crate and sub would weigh 400 and something pounds but the cardboard totaled up maybe 20lbs all together. The sub weighs 206 lbs. It has some scuffs and scratches due to delivery but I guess that is how they come due to the packing job.

The guy in the picture below is 5'-8" tall. My amps arrive tomorrow and I am still waiting on a delivery date for my Klipsch Ultra 2 THX system.

Here are some pictures...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/danley/IMG_0551.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/danley/IMG_0556.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/danley/IMG_0575.jpg

Ruben

Jesus that thing is big!

Did I miss it or have you not posted pictures of your 2nd and final curved screen? I'm anxious to see how that resolved....


Kevin -

Holy sh!t.

[uhhh...when did you start the slaughterhouse business...?]

One wonders, Packed like crap, delivered on a meat packing truck, and no serial number.

Are you sure this things for real? :)

Joe

This is the point where Shrek usually would make a comment about compensating for something, but I won't say it. :D


:eek: Your innards will be a rattlin' with that there contraption.

You know if you stand inside of the subwoofer box, there will be very little room modal influence. Not every subwoofer box is large enough to stand inside of. This is a feature.

You know if you stand inside of the subwoofer box, there will be very little room modal influence. Not every subwoofer box is large enough to stand inside of. This is a feature.

ROFL, That is absolutely hilarious!! :D

Joe

<insert Tim Taylor grunt here>

Bryan

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/jenna/DSC09819.jpg
http://www.smxscreen.com/images/jenna/DSC09829.jpg
http://www.smxscreen.com/images/danley/IMG_0575.jpg


What kind of business do you run? What a variation of pictures in the last few days!

I suspect this picture may reveal more about the nature of his business .. but it is just a guess ... :)

http://loutrixrecords.com/images/theater-pix/fabric-1/DSC07254.jpg

For those of you looking for a lower cost option to do shooting stars here a couple of options:-

http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/talking/5x7%20Display%20Index.html

This is a PIC micro based project, that can be programmed to do whatever you want.

Or, my personal favourite :-

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page5.htm#4017-2.gif

See the 16 stage expandable LED Chaser about half way down the page.

It uses off the shelf components, needs no programming and only a small amount of electronics knowledge to construct.

Component cost is unlikely to run much more than $10 !!! Plus you can daisy chain as many of these together as you want for longer shooting stars.

Combine this with another circuit to switch it on at a timed interval of say 2-5 minutes and bingo !!!

Ok, so today I picked up all my materials needed to build my final curved SmX AT screen.

These are the moldings I will be wrapping with the black velvet to trim out my screen.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-web/IMG_0585.jpg

These are the channel supports used to support the screen from bowing. They go on the back of the frame every 3rd.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-web/IMG_0592.jpg

This is a close up of the 1/8" wall aluminum. 48 feet (3 - 16 footers) of this cost me close to $300.00 for the aluminum only.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-web/IMG_0593.jpg

Those 2 shorter aluminum pieces are for the verticle sides.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-web/IMG_0594.jpg

Here is a shot of everything that will be used for the screen (not including the SmX material and Black Velvet).

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-web/IMG_0597.jpg

Here is the 2" velcro with the special adhesive for the SMX material.
That is 2 25 yard rolls. 1 Roll is the hook the other roll is the loop.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-web/IMG_0598.jpg

Here is a close up shot of the Velcro.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-web/IMG_0600.jpg

I will post some pictures of the completed frame tonight.

Ruben

Holy sh!t.

[uhhh...when did you start the slaughterhouse business...?]

You must be saying that because of the guy with the dirty apron :D
He is actually a faux painter from Brazil that is painting my house.

Here is a wall he has done so far...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/faux/IMG_0056.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/faux/IMG_0057.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/faux/IMG_0079.jpg

Ruben

You must be saying that because of the guy with the dirty apron :D
He is actually a faux painter from Brazil that is painting my house.

Here is a wall he has done so far...



http://www.smxscreen.com/images/faux/IMG_0057.jpg



Ruben

I think the embedded pattern is cool. Help me understand the artistic concept.

Joe

Ahhh...faux painting. Guy looked like he just got through slaughtering a cow ;).

I think the embedded pattern is cool. Help me understand the artistic concept.

Joe

These guys usually get about $125.00 a square yard out here in Fl to do this. You can easily spend over $100k doing your whole home like this. This guy was one of the screen builders that originally came to my house to help create an aluminum frame for the SmX. I later found out he was a faux painter and needed work. I went to his brothers house and saw the amazing work he does with plaster and paint. He does anodized copper walls that are so real you can stand 2" from them and swear it's real. He also does stone looking walls and other crazy faux work.

The process is a combination of plaster art, screens, stencils, paint and glaze. There is a few steps to achieve that. Most people that do faux walls only do the paint part and not the plaster due to the expense. They also sell faux wallpaper where they take a picture of a wall like this and make wallpaper to put on a smooth wall.

The guy has only used about a quart to a half gallon of paint to paint 1500 square feet of my house so far. When I went to buy supplies with him, I thought he was crazy only buying 1 gallon of paint to paint my whole house. We did also get a few gallons of glaze too. So it's not the materials you spend all the money on, it's the artist doing the job.

I originally was only looking to hire him to paint my walls a flat color with basic paints. However, he was willing to do the full faux painting for the same price.

So I worked a great deal out with him and told him I would give him a few bucks and make a professional DVD of his work and processes to take back to Brazil with him so he can give to designers out there and get work. At heart he really loves to do this.

Ruben

What kind of business do you run? What a variation of pictures in the last few days!

A slaughter house business :D LOL

These guys usually get about $125.00 a square yard out here in Fl to do this. You can easily spend over $100k doing your whole home like this. This guy was one of the screen builders that originally came to my house to help create an aluminum frame for the SmX. I later found out he was a faux painter and needed work. I went to his brothers house and saw the amazing work he does with plaster and paint. He does anodized copper walls that are so real you can stand 2" from them and swear it's real. He also does stone looking walls and other crazy faux work.

The process is a combination of plaster art, screens, stencils, paint and glaze. There is a few steps to achieve that. Most people that do faux walls only do the paint part and not the plaster due to the expense. They also sell faux wallpaper where they take a picture of a wall like this and make wallpaper to put on a smooth wall.

The guy has only used about a quart to a half gallon of paint to paint 1500 square feet of my house so far. When I went to buy supplies with him, I thought he was crazy only buying 1 gallon of paint to paint my whole house. We did also get a few gallons of glaze too. So it's not the materials you spend all the money on, it's the artist doing the job.

I originally was only looking to hire him to paint my walls a flat color with basic paints. However, he was willing to do the full faux painting for the same price.

So I worked a great deal out with him and told him I would give him a few bucks and make a professional DVD of his work and processes to take back to Brazil with him so he can give to designers out there and get work. At heart he really loves to do this.

Ruben

That's amazing. And you are right, we had our kitchen faux painted and there was no plaster work done. And you are getting it done for the price of a normal paint job? You are quite the deal maker. ;)

Joe

I finished assembling my curved 2.35:1 screen frame last night. I was going to finish the screen today but it's been raining on and off all day. Here are some pictures so far...

Here is the whole frame, you can see the curve on it.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-final/IMG_0615.jpg

Here are the corner supports I used to hold the frame together.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-final/IMG_0607.jpg

Here is a close up of the supports for the back of the frame.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-final/IMG_0614.jpg

The front of the frame will get 2" wide velcro then the SmX goes on the front and then it gets trimmed out with the black velvet tirm.

Ruben

That is one sexy screen!

Nice curves.

I suppose that is the 1/8th inch thick aluminum that you used to get that smooth curve?

That is one sexy screen!

Nice curves.

I suppose that is the 1/8th inch thick aluminum that you used to get that smooth curve?

Yes, it's the 1/8" wall. That will be my final frame for a while.

Ruben

Yes, it's the 1/8" wall. That will be my final frame for a while.

Ruben

Key words being "for a while"... Until you can think of something better, right Ruben?

The Crown XTI amps came in today. They are very light. In fact, I think all five of them together weigh the same as the monster power conditioner on top of them. The amps have built in DSP on them which is a really nice feature to have.

I had them running with some music for a few hours and they never got hot and the fans never turned on. I had them hooked up to some Kenwood speakers just to test. From what I see so far, they seem to be quite good.

Only thing I'm waiting on now is my Klipsch THX Ultra 2 system to arrive.

Also, it seems like everything I'm getting is silver (not by choice).

So far in silver I have the following 10 pieces...
3 Sony DVD Jukeboxes
1 Zenith HD Sat box
1 xBox 360 (Silver)
5 Crown Amps

So Far In black I have the following 5 pieces...
1 HTPC racked
1 Outlaw 990
1 Lumugen Vision HDQ
1 Monster Power 7000
1 Monster Power 2000

Here are some pictures...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-final/IMG_0604.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/amps-web/IMG_0653.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/amps-web/IMG_0655.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/amps-web/IMG_0660.jpg


Ruben

Key words being "for a while"... Until you can think of something better, right Ruben?

I hope so ;)

Ruben, how loud are the fans on the back of those Crown amps?

Are you aware of any other pro amps with DSP built in (for Parametric EQ) that are also fanless?

Thanks!

Andy K.

Also, it seems like everything I'm getting is silver (not by choice).

So far in silver I have the following 10 pieces...
3 Sony DVD Jukeboxes
1 Zenith HD Sat box
1 xBox 360 (Silver)
5 Crown Amps

So Far In black I have the following 5 pieces...
1 HTPC racked
1 Outlaw 990
1 Lumugen Vision HDQ
1 Monster Power 7000
1 Monster Power 2000

Ruben

I hate that. As one of the few AVS'ers who has the equipment below the screen because I wanted it there, I don't want anything that is silver and for some reason, it seems that there are too many things that are only in silver these days. I will need to replace my Kenwood DVD player since it keeps getting an error, but I don't want a silver DVD player. Are the DirecTV MPEG-4 HD-DVR's silver or black? If they are black, I better hurry and get one before that goes lighter too. :mad: :(

Ruben, how loud are the fans on the back of those Crown amps?

Are you aware of any other pro amps with DSP built in (for Parametric EQ) that are also fanless?

Thanks!

Andy K.

They haven't kicked on yet for me to tell you. They only come on when you are making the amps work really hard I guess. I was playing music at pretty good levels last night for a few hours and the fans didn't turn on.

Also, the fans are swappable, meaning you can put quiet ballbearing computer fans in them. Each amp has only one fan.

I'm going to be putting all my amps outside my theater room anyway, so fan noise doesn't matter in my case.

Ruben

I hate that. As one of the few AVS'ers who has the equipment below the screen because I wanted it there, I don't want anything that is silver and for some reason, it seems that there are too many things that are only in silver these days. I will need to replace my Kenwood DVD player since it keeps getting an error, but I don't want a silver DVD player. Are the DirecTV MPEG-4 HD-DVR's silver or black? If they are black, I better hurry and get one before that goes lighter too. :mad: :(

All the Directv HDR's are silver. I forgot to add that to the Silver list above.

All the equipment below the screen would distract the crap out of me. Power lights, LCD screens and reflections. The power light on my HTPC lights up the whole theater, I had to put a couple layers of tape on it until I pull it out the rack and disconnect it.

I have a mint Black Pioneer Elite 59av DVD player I'm going to put up for sale soon, you may be interested. I even have a custom rack shelf for it.

Ruben

They haven't kicked on yet for me to tell you. They only come on when you are making the amps work really hard I guess. I was playing music at pretty good levels last night for a few hours and the fans didn't turn on.

Also, the fans are swappable, meaning you can put quiet ballbearing computer fans in them. Each amp has only one fan.

I'm going to be putting all my amps outside my theater room anyway, so fan noise doesn't matter in my case.

Ruben

Thats really good to hear, Ruben. Thanks.

Have you had a chance to play with the DSP software yet? Do the amps come with the 'System Architect' software or is that an extra cost ?

Andy K.

Thats really good to hear, Ruben. Thanks.

Have you had a chance to play with the DSP software yet? Do the amps come with the 'System Architect' software or is that an extra cost ?

Andy K.

Not yet. The amps have a built in USB port that uses HiQnet.

Off the HiQnet Site...

The Crown XTi series of amplifiers will be supported within System Architect as of July 2006.

I'm downloading the full version of System Architect from the HiQnet site now.

Ruben

Cool. The website is a little misleading - it describes the availability of 4 "Paragraphic" equalizers. I'm wondering if this means parametric, or graphic, or both. I would assume both but they may have crippled the DSP in these amps (vs. the higher priced I-Tech series)

Andy K.

Cool. The website is a little misleading - it describes the availability of 4 "Paragraphic" equalizers. I'm wondering if this means parametric, or graphic, or both. I would assume both but they may have crippled the DSP in these amps (vs. the higher priced I-Tech series)

Andy K.

Great tech support over at Crown, I emailed them twice and they emailed me answers right back immediately.

Here is thier answer about the Paragraphic EQ on the XTi

"Hello Ruben-

It is a parametric EQ, but we do not display the Q, so that is why it is
considered a paragraphic. You can easily adjust the gain and center
frequency. I have attached a picture that will probably help."

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/SNAG-1056.png

i tried searching the thread for this to see if you have mentioned this but couldn't find anything:

You mentioned that the illuminator for the starfield ceiling is dimmable. Does that mean it si dimmable using a dimmer at the switch or with an x10 switch? Or is it dimmable on the unit itself?

One would think dimming it with a switch would affect the rate of twinkle as well or may disable the twinkle ability of the unit.

i tried searching the thread for this to see if you have mentioned this but couldn't find anything:

You mentioned that the illuminator for the starfield ceiling is dimmable. Does that mean it si dimmable using a dimmer at the switch or with an x10 switch? Or is it dimmable on the unit itself?

One would think dimming it with a switch would affect the rate of twinkle as well or may disable the twinkle ability of the unit.

My light box's were modified. The more you dim the lights, the slower the stars twinkle. To be honest with you, the slow twinkle looks the best and realest IMO. The regular speed twinkle looks a little disco-ish to me.

My Lutron Graphik Eye is what I use to dim them.

Ruben

Thanks Ruben. Which AE did you email over at Crown?

Andy K.

The Crown XTI amps came in today. They are very light. In fact, I think all five of them together weigh the same as the monster power conditioner on top of them. The amps have built in DSP on them which is a really nice feature to have.

I had them running with some music for a few hours and they never got hot and the fans never turned on. I had them hooked up to some Kenwood speakers just to test. From what I see so far, they seem to be quite good.

Only thing I'm waiting on now is my Klipsch THX Ultra 2 system to arrive.

Also, it seems like everything I'm getting is silver (not by choice).

So far in silver I have the following 10 pieces...
3 Sony DVD Jukeboxes
1 Zenith HD Sat box
1 xBox 360 (Silver)
5 Crown Amps

So Far In black I have the following 5 pieces...
1 HTPC racked
1 Outlaw 990
1 Lumugen Vision HDQ
1 Monster Power 7000
1 Monster Power 2000

Here are some pictures...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/frame-final/IMG_0604.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/amps-web/IMG_0653.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/amps-web/IMG_0655.jpg

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/amps-web/IMG_0660.jpg


Ruben
Sandman you really have to get the Toshiba A-1 hd dvd player.That baby will really show off your system.Ever since I have had that player it has been hard to play regular dvd's

One wonders, Packed like crap, delivered on a meat packing truck, and no serial number.

Are you sure this things for real? :)

Joe

Just so you guys know, I 've been in contact with the guys at Danley and they are NOT happy with the trucking company. They packaged it well and it obviously arrived not packaged well. As for a serial number, there should be a sticker on the back of the sub next to the input jacks with the serial number (there is on mine). If not, it may have been ripped off by the shipping company.

As for the meat packing...well...it IS one hell of a beefy sub! :D

I thought SandmanX had edited the photo to remove the serial number.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/danley/IMG_0556.jpg

Whew! Took me a week to read this thread in its entirety. Amazing work Ruben, my hat's off to you. Can't wait for more pics of the finished product!

Looks like most of the equipment is there...after worrying through the issue with your last sub I'm eager to hear what you think of the new setup. You mentioned listening to music but haven't mentioned the sub's performance yet.

BTW, from
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DANLEY_dts20.htm
The DTS-20 a.k.a. The Tower of Power
...
a perfect choice for ultra high end home theatre, and military/research facilities

I have a mint Black Pioneer Elite 59av DVD player I'm going to put up for sale soon, you may be interested. I even have a custom rack shelf for it.

Ruben

I assume that the upconversion only works over the DVI cable like all the other upconverting DVD players? I can't use it, since my projector doesn't have DVI or HDMI or anything newer than component inputs. BUT, my bulb is in need of replacing and I have been considering just getting a new projector instead... Too bad I don't have a money tree in my backyard, cause I have all kinds of hobbies I like to spend money on and I just don't have enough to go around! :cool:

My light box's were modified. The more you dim the lights, the slower the stars twinkle. To be honest with you, the slow twinkle looks the best and realest IMO. The regular speed twinkle looks a little disco-ish to me.

My Lutron Graphik Eye is what I use to dim them.

Ruben

May I ask how it was modified?
If it is not modified, then you can't dim or slow the twinkle?

May I ask how it was modified?
If it is not modified, then you can't dim or slow the twinkle?

I am guessing they just seprated the light from the motor so the light box now has 2 plugs.

Joe

May I ask how it was modified?
If it is not modified, then you can't dim or slow the twinkle?

Some electronics were added to them. Resistors or something? I have no clue.

Ruben

I thought SandmanX had edited the photo to remove the serial number.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/danley/IMG_0556.jpg


I did edit it.

Ruben

Ruben, how loud are the fans on the back of those Crown amps?

Are you aware of any other pro amps with DSP built in (for Parametric EQ) that are also fanless?

Thanks!

Andy K.

The Crown K-1's are Fanless I beleive and have DSP.

Ruben

Whew! Took me a week to read this thread in its entirety. Amazing work Ruben, my hat's off to you. Can't wait for more pics of the finished product!

Looks like most of the equipment is there...after worrying through the issue with your last sub I'm eager to hear what you think of the new setup. You mentioned listening to music but haven't mentioned the sub's performance yet.

A week? :D Thanks for the kind words.

I will be hooking up the Danley sub Saturday to test. I was lacking a speakon cable to hook it up and I picked up one tonight. The issue with my bass before was due to my Velodynes amp phasing. So I got it upgraded to the latest amp and Ultra 2 THX specs by Velodyne. I am thinking about using the Velodyne in the back of the room and the Danley in the front. I will see how the Danley does in there first by itself.

Ruben

BTW, from
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DANLEY_dts20.htm

Better Yet...

"The DTS-20 a.k.a. The Tower of Power is simply the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet."

That's a pretty confident statement. I will verify this tomorrow. :)

Ruben

Oh, any suggestions on what to play to test the new Sub?

I just found some sub woofer test tones a member from AVS was sharing. They range from 10hz up to 18khz They are here http://www.freewebs.com/sbowler579/thedvds.htm Scroll down to the bottom of the Page to "AUDIO TEST TONES" and download and burn an audio CD.

Thanks
Ruben

Hey Ruben.

I PM'd you some stuff. Still haven't been able to find the demo material thread.

Bryan

Better Yet...

"The DTS-20 a.k.a. The Tower of Power is simply the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet."

That's a pretty confident statement. I will verify this tomorrow. :)

Ruben

Hmmm, must be tomorrow already, I have been feeling some tremmors up here in Minnesota. :D

Joe

Thanks to Tedd for PMing me the thread for Steve's demo DVD stuff.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=612708

I was thinking there was another one too that just had lists of scenes and movies as well as some good music demo tracks.

Bryan

I might mention that several of those demos exceed 98's file capacity. I tried several times to download several files that I couldn't finish. You might also want to watch your monthly bandwidth capacity too. I got a nasty letter from my service provider as there is a 60G monthly limitation. Seems I used 160G that month...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=470529

Some of this is video related but still some good stuff in there though not subwoofer specific.

Bryan

The bass thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=505286

Thanks guys for all the links and recommendations. I am going to start testing now. I will report my thoughts later on if I'm still alive :D.

Ruben

Sandman you really have to get the Toshiba A-1 hd dvd player.That baby will really show off your system.Ever since I have had that player it has been hard to play regular dvd's

I saw the Toshi HD DVD player at Best Buy in the Magnolia section yesterday. To me, it looked about the same as my HTPC running TheaterTek, ffdshow and DScaler playing regular DVDs. However, that was just off memory and wasn't an A & B test. But I can tell you, I wasn't blown away or anything when I saw it like when I saw real HD TV.
It also might be their set up over there. Maybe I will go pick one up today or tomorrow and check it out.

Ruben

Lists of movies without an HH:MM:SS to HH:MM:SS are almost useless
a) if you can hear the bass, then you didn't need it
b) if you can't hear the bass, then you have to watch ALL of ALL those DVDs again.

A commentary of what you should be hearing is also helpful.

Some of the subwoofer reviews include plots of the sounds as well as the times involved.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html

I saw the Toshi HD DVD player at Best Buy in the Magnolia section yesterday. To me, it looked about the same as my HTPC running TheaterTek, ffdshow and DScaler playing regular DVDs. However, that was just off memory and wasn't an A & B test. But I can tell you, I wasn't blown away or anything when I saw it like when I saw real HD TV.
It also might be their set up over there. Maybe I will go pick one up today or tomorrow and check it out.

Ruben

I can vouch for the Tosh - an HD-DVD in my setup is absolutely the best image I've ever seen - better than HDTV even. I can barely bring myself to watch SD DVDs except that this player is also excellent at up-scaling. Only problem is it's very slow to start up and switch disks and things like that.

I can vouch for the Tosh - an HD-DVD in my setup is absolutely the best image I've ever seen - better than HDTV even. I can barely bring myself to watch SD DVDs except that this player is also excellent at up-scaling. Only problem is it's very slow to start up and switch disks and things like that.

So what does a guy like me with 1100 SD DVDs do?

Ruben

I would suggest to take a look at the OPPO which will improve your pq at a very modest price. I should have the one I bought next week. The reviews are excellent. I just gave away my $400.00 Sony progressive scan and will replace it with the oppo.

So where do I start?

Well today I got the Danley up behind the screenwall in position and wired up to the Amp/processor/DVD player. What can I say? I'm still not getting what I am expecting to get. Am I expecting too much? The Danley rattles everything in my room that isn't tied down, but doesn't produce any sound pressure.

I use to do live sound and owned Turbo Sounds and EAW bottoms, etc. My live system used to produce chest caving SPL from great distances as well as up front. My live system use to make you gasp for air because the bass pressure was insane yet undistorted. Your heart would skip beats because the bass was thumping. Even when I was younger, I had a system in my truck with 4 12" woofers that was bass insane.

The local theater I go to has a really kick ass system that has pretty impressive sound pressure as well. A Club my friend DJ's at in Miami called Club Space has Insane sound pressure too. These are enviorments I am use to, so that is what I am hoping to get out of my sub. I am not getting none of this with the Danley nor did I with the Velodyne.

For test material I ran War of the Worlds (Aliens coming out of the ground scene).
10 second Test tones ranging from 10hz up to 80hz,
Some bass thumping Hip Hop music that rips trunks apart.
And some Sound Effect cds I have of Jet engines and Trains.

Most of This stuff rattled loose objects in my room, but didn't have any effect on me. It's like you can hear the bass but not feel it. Some of the tested material even distorted on the Danley.

I have to say my room is the issue at this point. I would hate to have to rip things down and do it again.

But on a good note, the Crown xti constantly worked hard for a couple hours and the fan kicked on a couple times for a few seconds. I don't think it would ever come on under normal movie watching conditions. However, the fan is incredibly loud when it does come on for the few seconds. The amp never got warm to the touch.

Ruben

I would suggest to take a look at the OPPO which will improve your pq at a very modest price. I should have the one I bought next week. The reviews are excellent. I just gave away my $400.00 Sony progressive scan and will replace it with the oppo.

Better than a Lumagen Vision HDQ?

Ruben

Ruben,

May I ask at what level you are playing these at on your receiver? Are you saying that you can hear the bass fine, but cannot feel it in your chest at all? Are you trying to create the effect that every time you watch a movie, you self-defibrilate yourself? ;-)

Ruben,

May I ask at what level you are playing these at on your receiver? Are you saying that you can hear the bass fine, but cannot feel it in your chest at all? Are you trying to create the effect that every time you watch a movie, you self-defibrillate yourself? ;-)

Yes, I would hope :D

Well I bought "the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet" so I was expecting something phenomenal when I tested it.

Basement Bob gave me a couple good tips I am going to try tomorrow to see if it helps.

I'm going to run some sweeps tomorrow with the Danley and with the Velodyne.

Ruben

It looks like what you're after is multiple large drivers with maximum air movement, such as an infinite baffle setup (or multiple sealed). With the Danley's horn design, it won't push as much air as an array of subs with the full force of air directed at the listening position. It may get low, but it seems that you're looking for the chest thumping that only driver surface area and high Xmax can cure.

It looks like what you're after is multiple large drivers with maximum air movement, such as an infinite baffle setup (or multiple sealed). With the Danley's horn design, it won't push as much air as an array of subs with the full force of air directed at the listening position. It may get low, but it seems that you're looking for the chest thumping that only driver surface area and high Xmax can cure.

I agree with Tim. And I too have run lots of live sound and like the "feel" of good bass reproduction.

You are looking for lots of air movement. With all of your audio connections can you get your hands on a pro speaker array to test? Maybe 2 15s and 4-8 12s?

And you have that extra amp channel so you could bump the wattage into the array to get near some live wattage levels.

Joe

I'm going to have to agree that it's likely a matter of expectation. There is a difference between being loud, low, and clean - and (as has been stated above) having multiple large drivers just launching a wave of air at you.

We can certainly pull some of the bass absorbtion and allow the room to resonate more if you want to try that - though I'm not sure this is still going to give you what you're looking for.

Was this experiment done with just the Danley or with the Danley in front and Velo in back as you spoke of earlier? In either case, I'd like to see even some raw SPL measurements to verify what's going on from an objective standpoint.

Ruben, why not get the Thigpen Rotary Subwoofer and be done with it? That thing is *just* about air movement :)

Andy K.

Hi Ruben, your problem is the Danley is only one single 12" driver. Although it does play 'loud' and definitely goes down low, you just dont have the surface area on a single 12" sub to really blast into a room.

Since I know how you are always looking for the best, I would tell you to either do an IB install with 18" drivers (I can guess the price of one danley can be the whole cost of the project) or you can go with the rotary woofer which is the absolute best performer numbers-wise, but it does cost a pretty prenny.

Both installs require alot of empty space.

If you don't have the luxury of empty space, there are alot of DIY box sub projects that can very easily give you the best bang for your buck.

I may not have the same expectations as Ruben, but my SVS PB12+/2 shakes the room and me (now that I fixed it). I can't believe that monster thing didn't do at least as well, so maybe it is just an expectation thing.

On the DVD issue - the HD-A1 is an awesome SD DVD player. I've never had the Oppo bot some who do say it does just as good a job. So, for an extra couple hundred you could have both (but, admitedly a bit of a clunky start up).

kromkamp:

Have you seen this one: http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackHammer.cfm

Sure, it's an "expectations thing," but I think Ruben's expectations are completely realistic and attainable. In my extremely modest (soon to be remodeled) small HT, the Velodyne DD-15 makes it feel like something is grabbing the internal organs in my chest & abdominal cavities and shaking the hell out of them -- it can really make your heart skip a beat sometimes. It definitely doesn't just feel like the room and contents are vibrating and shaking around me and I'm not a part of it.....people literally gasp the first time they're in my theater if it's a good LFE movie.

Ruben, I'm sure you'll persevere until you get it just right....

Am I right that chest pounding is directly proportional to SPL?

If so, and if SandmanX's Danley isn't producing the SPL, and the Danley staff can't solve the issue, then perhaps SandmanX will wander off to those places that he knows have enough bass and find out what they are using there and give it a try at home.

There isn't a small chance that Ruben is addicted to "exaggerated 35 hz" bass is there? :-)

That's the "club bass" special as I recall. ^_^

Also, in these other places that he's using as reference, where they on a slab or wood floor? I find bass two different experiences for each...

I may not have the same expectations as Ruben, but my SVS PB12+/2 shakes the room and me (now that I fixed it). I can't believe that monster thing didn't do at least as well, so maybe it is just an expectation thing.

He's not looking for shaking the room as much as a thump in the chest.

That leads into Bob's question of whether chest pounding is directly proportional to SPL. I would submit that it is, however that is not the complete equation either. At least one other factor is the combined surface area of the driver cones. As Chris B. mentioned, a 12" driver may be capable of huge SPLs (due to its configuration - a horn enclosure in this case), but the surface area keeps the right side of that equation below the "chest pounding" level.

Four 15"ers, though they may have similar SPL or even less, would provide much more chest pounding action due to their surface area. I want the same thing as Ruben in this regard, and to me ideal will be four 15s or 18s in an IB setup, though since I'll probably have them under/behind the screen wall proscenium, I'll probably use multiple sealed enclosures (two with 2 15s each most likely). Now I just need to determine the appropriate size, and whether I'm going to port them or not. I could experiment either way (it'll be a DIY install). Ruben could do something similar.

I may not have the same expectations as Ruben, but my SVS PB12+/2 shakes the room and me (now that I fixed it). I can't believe that monster thing didn't do at least as well, so maybe it is just an expectation thing.

On the DVD issue - the HD-A1 is an awesome SD DVD player. I've never had the Oppo bot some who do say it does just as good a job. So, for an extra couple hundred you could have both (but, admitedly a bit of a clunky start up).

I don't want my room to shake. A shaking room reminds me of that low rider Toyota you see driving around with the trunk lid and license plate rattling. What good is a shaking room if your not shaking too? I want that air movement that moves your shirt and I wll be happy. I want to feel the movie as well as see it.

I got the best damn AT screen on the planet with a picture that pops off the screen, now I need my sound to come in the room and squeeze me.

I think I'm going to have the biggest speaker collection in the world by the time I'm done here.

Ruben

This calls for a "SandmanX DIY subwoofer project!"

This calls for a "SandmanX DIY subwoofer project!"
Very much agreed. :D

This calls for a "SandmanX DIY subwoofer project!"

No Thanks, next thing you'll know I will have SVS and Velodyne upset :D

Ruben

Have you tried increasing SPL in the room by temporarily blocking returns and any other airleaks? I remember you mentioning returns here and there, maybe the room is breathing too much?

here is my question.

How does the Velodyne DD-18 stack up to the danley?

I have compared the Velo to the Trinity sub and I am wondering if selling a trinity for the Danley would be a big step up. Or maybe I would be better off just adding more trinity subs... lol

here is my question.

How does the Velodyne DD-18 stack up to the danley?

I have compared the Velo to the Trinity sub and I am wondering if selling a trinity for the Danley would be a big step up. Or maybe I would be better off just adding more trinity subs... lol

Personally I would rather have a DD18 instead of the danley sub for your case. It's just so difficult to beat servo ability to decrease distortion and extend the low frequency and sound quality; and to have an 18" surface area is spectacular. Remember, LFE is all about moving air. An 18" driver is going to move alot more air than a 12", the key is to move the air fast and maintain low distortion.

OK guys, good news (I think).

The problem was with the Outlaw Processor, the Volume is different from the B & K and I had it too low the first day I tested it. Once I got the SPL meter out and got the volume up it started doing bigger things.

First, I hooked up my Velodyne and ran some test tones ranging from 10hz up to 80hz. The Velodyne didn't respond until I hit 60hz in my room. Anything below 60hz didn't do anything in my room.

Then I hooked up the Danley and yes it's a monster. It responded well from 15hz all the way up to 90 (that's all I tested). 22 - 25hz created the most earth rattling bass. My wife was upstairs on the other side of the house and her bed was vibrating like a cheap massage chair. Then I went in the guest bedrooms directly above the theater and the vibration was so intense my ears were itching and my whole body was vibrating with the 25hz tone at 105 db looping.

No question, the Danley completely eliminates my Velodyne THX Ultra 2 HGS 18 from the equation :D It also moves allot of air out of its port, so much that my GoM in front of it was bowing out.

Im going to try to move the Danley around the room as well when my helping hand gets back.

Here are some pictures

Here is the area behind my screen wall where the Danley goes...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/sub-placement/IMG_0756.jpg

I put these rubber mats down first to prevent the sub from rattling against wood stage...

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/sub-placement/IMG_0759.jpg

Here is the Danley in place on top of the rubber mats. All the scratches on it came like that from Danley. Notice the port on the left side of the Danley.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/sub-placement/IMG_0769.jpg

This is the kind of cable you use to hook up the Danley, it is 12 gauge speakon cable.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/sub-placement/IMG_0774.jpg

Here is a further shot of the Danley in Place. You can see it is almost as wide as my 10 foot wide opening on my screen wall. Notice the port on the left Side of the Danley.

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/sub-placement/IMG_0776.jpg

Ruben

Personally I would rather have a DD18 instead of the danley sub for your case. It's just so difficult to beat servo ability to decrease distortion and extend the low frequency and sound quality; and to have an 18" surface area is spectacular. Remember, LFE is all about moving air. An 18" driver is going to move alot more air than a 12", the key is to move the air fast and maintain low distortion.

Sorry, but the Velodyne can not even think about comparing to the Danley. Its like comparing my Harmon Kardon computer sub to the Velodyne. Yes, It's that much different.

Ruben

So now you got your squeezing you need. (For now) A delayed happy ending, but thank goodness it was just a setup glitch. :-)

Sorry, but the Velodyne can not even think about comparing to the Danley. Its like comparing my Harmon Kardon computer sub to the Velodyne. Yes, It's that much different.

Ruben

I hope this puts a permanent tear on the larger woofer is better automatically mentality.

All things being equal they have their advantages, sure, but my golly there's a lot of other things that make a subwoofer sing... (like the size of that enclosure... ^_^)

I'll throw in an apology for that 35hz crack too. :P

Have you tried increasing SPL in the room by temporarily blocking returns and any other airleaks? I remember you mentioning returns here and there, maybe the room is breathing too much?

Good point. I have one supply and one return they are both 4" x 36".

Ruben