I have a mounting question about the Epson. I plan on mounting this pj on a shelf on the side wall of my HT. The shelf will be close to the ceiling because I have very low ceilings. Do I have to mount the projector upside down like it is in a ceiling mount? Or can I put it right side up on a shelf? This is probably a very silly question, but I'm a soon to be first projector owner. Thanks.

i just received the 800 today.i took it out of the box it is a great looking projector.
i will say this .if the mount is any indication of the quality of the projector then they may have something.i will hang it today and check it out .will post my finds this week.

jlyon

Please post your review of the 800 as soon as possible in the over $3,500. forum. Try this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6645629#post6645629

:) IB

Yes, the comments at ProjectorCentral are certainly interesting, especially given the specifics from the ProjectorReviews.com comments specifically about blacks compared to the competetors.

After reading the manual it doesn't look as if the 550 will do the 33% stretch needed for a CH setup.

Can anyone confirm/refute this claim?

I just noticed this review of the Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 800.

see: http://www.projectorcentral.com/par...opinion_id=7655

The next generation LCD panels available in 2006 will have "C2 Fine" with promised contrast ratios 3 times current levels. The math is 3 times 5,000 = 15,000 to 1!

see:
http://www.epson.co.jp/e/newsroom/2..._2005_05_24.htm

Will LCD kill DLP in 2006?

IB

c2fine technology has been talked about for over a year now, at least, anyway yes it looks to be very interesting, basically the same new d5 panel with an inorganic layer instead of organic layer inside the panel (which is why lcds degrade supposedly) plus it ups the contrast a bit should be quite interesting. we shall see. jeff

p.s. i remember reading something about a 1080p display being shown off at infocomm 2005 that was using the technology and it had like 10,000:1 contrast. the panel is able to actually turn of the signal that goes to the "black pixel" being displayed so it has a really high contrast. Epson must be releasing the d5 to make up on r&d costs and then releasing the d5 w/c2fine next to have people that have the upgrade bug, upgrade all over again. Because i mean would u really get a an ae900 if you have a 700 and u knew in like 6-12 months you could get a pj with 3-4 times the REAL contrast rating? hmmmm NO jeff


p.s.s Sony will also be releasing there own version of c2fine--- either bi:na or a cheaper version of the sxrd ruby. cant wait man. If i had to bet it would be something more like bi:na but well see. jeff

Epson guessed right :)

when C2 fine comes and if its as good as it sounds, i will upgrade by TW600 right away :p

"the panel is able to actually turn of the signal that goes to the "black pixel" being displayed so it has a really high contrast."

The problem isn't turning off the signal, it's getting the LC material to be completely opaque to light.

Folks...we could play this game forever. Last year it was dynamic iris. This year it was the D5 panels. Every year the manufacturers will find a way to make things equally more exciting. Every year the same unbelievable increase in performance is talked about (for crying out loud...we're talking about thousand numbers for contrast ratio...two years ago you might have been committed for a statement like that).... Every year things are going to be equally more fantastic, and equally more terrific to upgrade. The fact remains that it is this year and the current Epson projector for which this thread is named, has still to be even reviewed on more than one commercial site in the US...so let's talk about what's great now and lets see what this years projector can actually do.

NOAH ,
this is a quote from epson at infocomm 2005----"This contrast ratio improvement over traditional 3LCD products comes from VAN's ability to "project" black when no voltage is applied to the pixel space. In effect, black is VAN's natural state. 3LCD announced that it expects products with C2Fine technology to be available in 2006."
and VIGGA you are 100 percent right these new projector are awesome compared to just a few years ago and are definitely great buys for all of us, but its always cool to look forward, but you are correct and we should stay on subject. So back to the epson 550 it is. jeff

projectorcentral.com just posted there review of the 550. Pretty impressive! The reviewer thought it exceeded the Z4 in every aspect except sharpness. Even with this the 550 was very close. The only problem with the 550 seems to be fan noise. It isn't horrible but it must be noticable. This review wasn't the first time it was mentioned.

I wonder how we read this in relation to the projectorreviews.com review which states that the Panasonic 900 had the slighly better contrast ratio than the Z4 and 550...

They didn't mention the Panny in the review. He was just comparing the Z4 to the 550. I guess the Panny has a slightly better Contrast ratio but the projectorcentral.com reviewer seemed to favor the 550 over the Sanyo. It also seems like the 550 is better than the others in many other aspects. The only thing that I don't like is that the fan noise might be an issue. The projector will be very close to the front viewers.

This projector looks like a real winner after I read the review on projectorcentral. I'll gladly purchase this Epson product over anything by Sanyo simply based on the customer service issues that Sanyo seems to have. Epson is known for their reliable products and seem willing to stand by the customer if the machine poops the bed. With such a huge purchase such as a projector, I'll gladly take any shortcomings that this projector may have over the Z4, simple as that. SOLD :)

From what I got out of the review is that this projector is only good for living room applications where there is ambient light and contrast and color accuracy is not a concern. As far as a dedicated home theater its light output in any type of high contrast mode would limit you to a 100" diag screen and even that would be pushing it. I am glad I chose the Panny 900 since it has plenty of brightness for a dedicated home theater and 126" diag screen.

You now may tell me I dont know what I am talking about and dismiss what I say as personal opinion just trying to justify my purchase :)

Paul

My take was that in the LR with ambient light, the epson excells in this application. In other applications, it is on par with other recent PJs except for fan noise and the light output in their Theatre modes - which can be adjusted to one's taste.

I would like to see ~350+ lumens when calibrated for HT though. Z4 and 900 can do this.

Another factor for me is that I can throw large images at short distances. At 11' I can throw a 74" diag image with no zoom. With z4 and 900 it's ~1.5 zoom. With an anamorphic lense, using zoom is not desirable.

I can get this projector from my local dealer for less than the current price of the 900 at several highly regarded forum sponsors (not including the rebate). In my last theater I used the Panasonic 300 on a 92 inch diagnol screen and was very pleased by its performance. I would be using this in a dedicated home theater with complete light control and plan on using a 106 inch diagnol screen.

Given the price, the 2 year warranty, the replace it immediately service, and the local dealer, is there any reason I should hesitate to purchase this projector over the other 2 major competitors?

I'm glad to see the industry moving in this direction at least. It is too bad that so much brightness has to be lost to gain an acceptable image in a room with no light but that of course is common.

Personally, I would like to see some of the manufacturers move away from concentrating so much on contrast ratio. Yes, it is imperative to a better looking image but for me I would like to see a 720P proector have 2000+ lumens of light with at least a 1500:1 contrast ratio. In theory couldn't they easily do this if they just put a more powerful bulb in their current line of projectors? I am sure cooling would then be a bigger issue as well as fan noise, etc....

I might just have to wait until the Sanyo PLV70 comes down to a street price of around $2500. I might be waiting a while :)

After reading the manual it doesn't look as if the 550 will do the 33% stretch needed for a CH setup.

Can anyone confirm/refute this claim?

Haven't seen a response to this yet. Anyone know if it will do the vertical stretch for a CIH setup? And if it is limited to certain inputs/resolutions? Thanks!

I'm glad to see the industry moving in this direction at least. It is too bad that so much brightness has to be lost to gain an acceptable image in a room with no light but that of course is common.

Personally, I would like to see some of the manufacturers move away from concentrating so much on contrast ratio. Yes, it is imperative to a better looking image but for me I would like to see a 720P proector have 2000+ lumens of light with at least a 1500:1 contrast ratio. In theory couldn't they easily do this if they just put a more powerful bulb in their current line of projectors? I am sure cooling would then be a bigger issue as well as fan noise, etc....

I might just have to wait until the Sanyo PLV70 comes down to a street price of around $2500. I might be waiting a while :)

The word is Sanyo is using older style LCD panels in their "new" PLV-80. The suspected reason is that the newer and smaller D5 panel will not handle the heat of a 300 watt bulb. The next generation LCD panel, with an inorganic layer, may handle more heat and thus it might be possible for Sanyo to construct a PLV-90 with a 3,000 lumen output and a contrast ration of 10,000 to 1 or better.

IB

The word is Sanyo is using older style LCD panels in their "new" PLV-80. The suspected reason is that the newer and smaller D5 panel will not handle the heat of a 300 watt bulb. The next generation LCD panel, with an inorganic layer, may handle more heat and thus it might be possible for Sanyo to construct a PLV-90 with a 3,000 lumen output and a contrast ration of 10,000 to 1 or better.

IB

Manna from heaven!! I'll take two :D

The only thing that I don't like is that the fan noise might be an issue. The projector will be very close to the front viewers.

I had the Infocus 4805 it was 32db noise and Ok, this one I think is 26db so should be fine. I've seen a review eleswhere and they didn't notice any undue noise.

This projector looks like a real winner after I read the review on projectorcentral. I'll gladly purchase this Epson product over anything by Sanyo simply based on the customer service issues that Sanyo seems to have.

FWIW I've had three Sanyo projectors and had excellent service from the warranty service guys.

It certainlyis refreshing to hear at least someone has had a good experience with Sanyo's warranty. For crissakes there's a full thread dedicated to their horrendous customer service. Maybe they're turning over a new leaf. If this is the case, I'd consider buying one of their products.

To Foxtail (fellow Aussie) and all other TW600 followers,

Check out this review and comment including some settings for a TW600
in Hong Kong. Guy's name is Velocity. Sound's pretty good ....

Link here ------->

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?PHPSESSID=f2a7bbd85eeee2de4982c51b939dd0c2&topic=36158.0

regards,
waingro

So is the TW600 equivalent to the Epson Cinema 550 or totally different? Cause from CKL's review I got that the TW600 was only mediocre at best??

So is the TW600 equivalent to the Epson Cinema 550 or totally different? Cause from CKL's review I got that the TW600 was only mediocre at best??

yes but that is only one opinion (but a very good one :) ), and the TW600 should be better then the 550, it should be closer to a 800 without ISF pre-calibration.

a swedish site called bigscreen has reviewed all the D5 and they regard the TW600 to be the best followed by the panny 900.

the common opinion amongst ordinary people seeing these pj in stores here in sweden regard the Hitachi TX200 to be the best followed by the TW600 and dead last the panny 900.

so the TW600 is not regarded as mediocre at all, but there hasn't been any more reviews on the TW600 but you can be sure that it is just as good and probably even better then the 550 that has gotten fine reviews.

so look at for reviews of the 800 which should be close to what the TW600 performs.

I'm still trying to look for a good review for the TX200 / HDPJ52.

I'm guessing that the Epson 800 would overtake the Hitachi TX200 / HDPJ52.

However, has anyone compared the Hitachi TX200 with the 550?

Does the 550 have a secondary manual iris like the TX200(HDPJ52) or Z4?

And is the Epson 550 brighter than the Hitachi?

Can anyone recommend a good ceiling mount?

Alternatively, anyone know the mount screw size on the projector and max length?

Could someone please try comparing the Epson550 between the PE7700 or HC3000?

Here in Canada, the PE7700 is slightly more than the Epson 550, so it's a hard choice..

I'm disappointed at TW600. Epson used to produce decent LCD projectors such TW100, 200 and 500. It seems that they want to cut more cost at TW600.

My dealer just called me. He received the 550 today and has it set up in a viewing room. I will definitely take a look at it and provide my highly un-scientific review this weekend.

Greetings all,

Since there was a mention of my review of the 550, and about my comments on the Z4 vs Panny regarding contrast, I'll try to clarify.

Generally, I don't hold much faith in these contrast numbers - it is, to my best understanding, a good deal of smoke and mirrors with lcd HT projectors. When you look at the actual black levels generated by any of these - and notably the Z4 and Panny with their 7000:1 and 5500:1 numbers, you would expect them to exceed the black level performance of the more expensive darkchip 3 DLP projectors - which are mostly 4000:1 to 5000:1.

Not so. Put on a normal scene on DVD and look at the letterbox area, and, bingo, the blacks are easily much darker.

All this lamp adjust and irises do their thing (as most of you know) by varying the image brightness. If the frame doesn't have any full intensity colors (255 value) this allows these projectors to darken the image by one of these various methods, and appropriately adjusting specific areas upward.

I'm not fully clear on the subtleties, but imagine that on a scene, out of 255 maximum on whites or colors (8 bit), nothing is brighter than 50% (127). OK, dim the lamp or close down the iris to allow only half the light through (thus reducing the blacks by 50%. Now take the value that is 127 and change it to 255, change a lower value, say 50, and make it 100. This allows you to have blacker blacks.

OK, I digress.

All three projectors are pretty close, on black levels, depending on how you set them. I agree with Evan, at projector central, ignore the actual contrast ratings, I did not find the Cinema 550 to be any worse than the other two despite the much lower contrast rating.

I did find the auto lamp on the Sanyo to be occasionally noticeable, and so, as commented I recommend that anyone who also starts noticing it, to simply turn off the Auto lamp. (which probably changes the contrast ratio, anyway.

Doing that, I found the Panny to do a touch better on black levels, when comparing side by side.

When I did the Epson next to the Panny, I recall the Epson being comparable. It was tough because, quite honestly, I couldn't get the Epson to be as dim as the Panny, in their best modes... and I didn't measure.

Personally, I like the Epson for its sheer horsepower, for anyone with some ambient light, but the Panny for the less visible pixels. The panny does have better color out of the box, but even an AVia disk can correct both well enough that they are equally good.

And the Sanyo is the sharpest, but it seems to be on 480 sources, so when Blu-ray hits... who cares... -art

Anyway, hit my site for the review. www.projectorreviews.com.

And I am currently reviewing the Pro Cinema 800 (very very impressive).

I also plan to do a brief Epson vs Panny comparison next week...

Have fun shoppers!

I'm disappointed at TW600. Epson used to produce decent LCD projectors such TW100, 200 and 500. It seems that they want to cut more cost at TW600.

How come? I read your review and you say it's worse than the Panasonic AE900. So I see it as pretty mediocre..especially the green color performance?


Do you have a review for the Hitach TX200? And how would the TW600 compare with say Benq PE7700 (minus the bulb failures)??

Art,

"And I am currently reviewing the Pro Cinema 800 (very very impressive). "

So it's significantly better than the 550? Can you elaborate?

Also, it's still a mystery as to whether there are any substantive hardware differences between the 550 and 800/600 (if it it's essentially an 800, another mystery), such as video processing.

Any light you can shed would be appreciated.

Thanks

here in sweden some stores have the 600 head to head with the 520, which should be the 800/550.

there are no hardware differences that i know of, even the lamps are the same.

however people in sweden are saying that the difference in contrast and lumens on paper are actually real differences. they are not major but the 600 shows a punchier image with more depth and darker blacks.

here in sweden the price difference in not so big as in the US but still people are buying the 600 over the 520 so there is a noticable difference.

Can some one compare against the PE7700? I wonder how the Epson 550 will hold up, especially since it's substantially less..

Can some one compare against the PE7700? I wonder how the Epson 550 will hold up, especially since it's substantially less..
I'm interested in the same thing. I was planning to get the BenQ Pe7700 and just got back from looking at the Cinema 800 (they did not have a demo of the 550). It really looked good. I did not notice the SDE after 1.1x screen width - not too bad! It was viewing on a Stewart Grewhawk screen at 96"

Steve

I'm disappointed at TW600. Epson used to produce decent LCD projectors such TW100, 200 and 500. It seems that they want to cut more cost at TW600.

I can't understand this. I have read your test on the TW600, and my impression is far from the word "disappointed" :confused:

Also, when I read the comparison with the Z4 it came out quite allright?

In Norway, the TW600 cost about 30% less than the Z4, and 35% less than the TX200. Probably something to take into consideration?

I have seen the TW600, Pana 900 and the Z4, and it is no doubt about which PJ gives the most "bang for the buck": TW600 ;)

Finally see comparision and review with Hitachi HDPJ52
http://www.projectorcentral.com/hitachi_ultravision_hdpj52.htm

It looks like the Epson 550 is definately comparable to the Hitachi. The review even favored the Epson with black levels. I just hope the Epson is bright enough. My room is light controlled but still I would like a nice bright picture. I think I am definately leaning heavily toward the Epson.

I think Epson 550 is much better in brightness compare to Hitachi HDPJ52. Look at what review says, "The bigger competitive challenge for the HDPJ52 is the Epson Cinema 550. The Cinema 550 is a much brighter projector, measuring in at up to 950 ANSI lumens, while the maximum we were able to squeeze from the Hitachi HDPJ52 was around 500 ANSI.".

Moreover, I would have a projector for multipurpose entertainment rather than just dedicated home theater viewing. For that reason, Epson would be a real winner.

I was fortunate enough to demo this unit along with the Z4 and PE7700 in the same theatre room.
This projector beats the other units hands down! Build Quality is superb, as they took apart the units, you can really see the difference, and the
warranty is phenomenal.
The only minor thing that this unit loses to the other projectors is fan noise, although its just slightly noisier at brightest mode.

I purchased it on the spot, SOLD!

Warrier, thanks for the feedback. Please let me know how you like it when you get it setup.

has anyone custom timing for powerstrip for the Epson 600 for HDMI at 720p ?

With my standard setting in ATI catalyst, I have pixel dithering (not in VGA), so the synchronisation seems to have difficulties...

Well, I got a good look at the 550 today. I did not get to a/b it with another projector and I have not seen the new Panasonic or Sanyo projectors. In my last home theater I used a Panasonic 300--I sold this with my house a few months ago. I was watching a DVD from a Denon 2910 fed through component video cables on a 92 inch diagnol screen. Given those circumstances here are my findings (specifically addressing some of the concerns I have perceived in other reviews):

Noise: The projector was not ceiling mounted yet because they just received it, so I watched it with it sitting on a table right in front of me. In Theater Black 1 and 2 modes it was so quiet it was not noticeable even with the volume of the movie turned down to allow me to converse with the dealer. In Natural and Theater mode it got a little louder but was still not noticeable with the volume at normal levels. Conclusion: I am confident that even sitting directly under this projector it's noise levels are not a problem in normal situations.

SDE: In order to notice SDE without specifically trying to focus on it I had to get less than 5 feet from the screen. at around 6 feet I had to have a solid color shot and concentrate on looking for it to see any SDE. at about 7.5 feet I was unable to see any SDE at all. Conclusion: I am planning to use this projector with a 106 inch diagonal screen and plan on sitting 10 feet from the screen (1.3x screen width) and I feel screen door effect will not be an issue.

Color: This projector had not been yet calibrated but looked really good to my eye straight out of the box. I can only imagine how nice it will look when fully calibrated. There was definitely no noticable tint or any other symptoms of panel misalignment.

I went ahead and ordered this projector today. The 900 or the z4 might be a little better in some way but I will never know it and this projector meets all my expectations. Also, the 2 year warranty and the fact that I can get it from my local dealer for less than the street price of the other projectors makes it a no brainer for me.

I won't actually be installing my new Epson until the end of January when my new home is finished but if anyone has questions in February I should be able to answer them. :)

Plus, it's brighter. That can't hurt.

IMO

I have had the TW600 for 3 days now, and I'm am very impressed with its image quality: deep blacks, incredibly sharp, punchy image. I noticed a lot more detail in HD samples than before. Much better that the AE700 I had (I also briefly had a AE900, which was not much of an improvement over the AE700 as far as I could tell, also too unsharp for me). I am not a videophile, and not too picky about colors. Color on all beamers are fine in one of the Theater modes, I never use any dynamic mode. The AE900 and TW600 both did not suffer from VB at all , which was a big improvement over the 700. SD was not visible for me at 1.5x viewing distance (2.20 m screen).

I know now I do not like smoothscreen, since IMO it seems to degrade/smooth out the image way to much for my taste. The only dealbreaker for me was noise of the TW600! Ceiling-mounted it was way too noisy, and when mounted upright table-style near the ceiling the noise went down to an acceptable level, but a barely audible but really annoying high-pitch beeping noise remained (may be an isolated problem with this individual beamer). I retried several times, but it really kept bugging me. A pity, because I know the image of the TW600 is really very good! I am seriously considering exchanging it for a Sanyo Z4, since I know that's a sharp and silent beamer. I am only worried a bit about the flawwed Dynamic iris of the Z4 that everybody is talking about.

btw: All testing was done in Theater mode (silent) on a HTPC 720p over HDMI with a Geforce 6600 using Nvidia PureDVD codec in VMR mode.

I still have not been able to determine if this projector will do a stretch mode (vertically stretching a 2.35 image to fill the entire panel) for use with a horizontal anamorphic lens. Anyone here know?
Tim

I read part of the thread regarding the differences between the 800 and 600 and will see if my rep can clarify some of the difference if any in price at all. I know in Canada you get a free lamp and mount for the 800 which may account for some of the difference but should get a better clarification from the rep.

I know the lens is different in the 800 vs the 550 and also the internal scaler is much better on the 800. There is also a 200+ model in North America ...

In comparing the 500 to the 800 I would say that there was about a 30 percent improvment. Substantial improvment.

Epson makes their own bulbs now BTW. A new eliptical bulb...

With the free bulb and mount I think this is one of the best deals going and it is good to see Epson put some of their technology into the CE market in a bigger way. The licence they have with Fujitsu on the 1080P projector expires in January 2006 and I can't wait to see Epsons 1080P iteration come out sometime likely in 2006. Oh boy ,,, oh boy... but I still think on a personal basis and financially justifying a projector at this point these are the babees that are hard to beat right now for price performance.. and I am a die hard DLP guy.

Robert

Robert,

"I know the lens is different in the 800 vs the 550 and also the internal scaler is much better on the 800. There is also a 200+ model in North America ..."

How is it different? The throw ratios are the same AFAIK.

"In comparing the 500 to the 800 I would say that there was about a 30 percent improvment. Substantial improvment."

Can you please elaborate?

"Epson makes their own bulbs now BTW. A new eliptical bulb... "

I doubt they make lamps, the elliptical reflector is unique to them.

I still have not been able to determine if this projector will do a stretch mode (vertically stretching a 2.35 image to fill the entire panel) for use with a horizontal anamorphic lens. Anyone here know?
Tim

I read the manual and it did not indicate that it did any streching - although I am not 100% sure due to the wordng they used.

See the 550 tweak thead I started:
550 Tweak Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=618602) .

nightfly,
ditto

Can I order a 600 and have it shipped to the US. The price difference is amazing. Would I have any issues with video formating???

Thanks in advance,
DT

Does anyone notice any problems with the CIE green color tracking? CKL's review indicated that the TW600 was lacking in green. What about the Epson Cinema 550?


Also, the 550 and 800 uses the same bulb -- it's the same part number. So how can the 800 be brighter? A larger more effecient lens??

Can I order a 600 and have it shipped to the US. The price difference is amazing. Would I have any issues with video formating???

Thanks in advance,
DT


I think warranty would be issue. It is a known fact that at least some early models of these pjs have panel alignment issues. Do you want to pay for overseas shipping both ways; have longer delays in fixing the problem, etc.?

The warranty docs clearly state that to have warranty repairs done in the usa, you need a valid usa warranty.

I have started searching for my dream pj since summer. I thought I would get the H78. I am having a change of heart after reading all the reviews of the latest DLP and LCD pj. I am resolving to order the Epson Cinema 550 just because of the cost difference of $2000 Canadian.

Also, to buy a 720p at this time, I figure I could use it for a couple of years then the price of 1080p pj will come down and perhaps I can trade up then. I am sick and tired of the waiting game.

I still think the H78 is the best in performance, maybe when the 1080p comes out in spring, its price will come down . My hesitation is, will it come down to about the price I pay for the
Epson Cinema 550 ,ie . $2500 Canadian.

Anyone trying to talk me into waiting for 1080p
By the way, I plan to have the Optoma Graywolf screen (Gray 106").

Si

I wish there were a few more actual reviews from AVS members in here on the 550.

I have a couple weeks to decide between the 900U, Z4, Epson 550.

At this point, i'm leaning towards the 550 because of the better lumens which i really need on a 130" screen.

900U "pro's" >Good picture, no screendoor, i have had 4 Panny projectors and was happy with Panny product. "Con's" >screendoor takes away from sharpness i prefer. If 900u follows with 700u, potential bulb problems or bulb replacement availability problems.

Z4 "pro's"> good picture, no screendoor from 1.1 + screenwidth, sharper picture
"cons"> many documented warranty problems and reliablility problems.

Epson 550 "pro's" >as good as Z4,900U(according to PC review), sharp picture, more lumens, highly touted on Projector Central .... Con's> not enough reviews here to determine if its reliable, if the Projector Central review with the panel misalignment is common. Typically Priced a little bit higher through reputable retailers than than the 900u or Z4

Another "pro" for the Epson would be, i expect the warranty or service should it be needed would be good.

At this point , i lean towards the Epson, although the only other Epson i have seen is a customers S1 which was SVGA resolution and obviously not a good example of what the 550 can probbly do, probably not even close.

We just need some more AVS reviews to start coming in here. ;)

I think the problem is that the 550 is just now becoming widely available. I will be getting mine next week, but as I said, I won't be installing it until the end of the month.

My local dealer is very price competitive with the internet dealers on the 900 and the z4.

I just got mine today, and although it seems the ups man tried to destroy the box, it still works.

Although I too won't be installing it in the near term, I will hopefully have a temp setup going before new years.

I just pointed it at my nearest wall which happened to be yellow to make sure it worked and to see if I could detect panel alignment issues. It did work, but I couldn't get anything out of the image other than it looked ok on my textured yellow wall.

Solid unit, feels "well built", tight in hand and some what heavy. Stylish curved design elements. I don't care for the white color, but what can one do...

One thing of note is that there are 2 remote sensors on the unit front and back. More as the setup and time allow.

Nightfly,
Anxiously awaiting word on the stretch/squeeze capability :)

How would this, or the other D5 LCD's compare to a Infocus 7200 HD1 DLP in terms of overall picture satisfaction? (I can compare numbers, but wondering if there is more to it)

Also, where is the info on Ceiling mounts? Anyone use those mounts I saw once in CompUSA that fit any projector?

So we know the 550 can compete against the Hitachi PJ52, minus a few features like dual iris, and that the PJ52 is slightly better than PE7700, but how does the 550 compare against the new Mitsubish HC3000 that is using the newer 1280x768 DLP chip with "brilliant color" ?

With DLP the light engine is sealed so there's no worries of having dust blobs on the LCD panels..

So we know the 550 can compete against the Hitachi PJ52, minus a few features like dual iris, and that the PJ52 is slightly better than PE7700, but how does the 550 compare against the new Mitsubish HC3000 that is using the newer 1280x768 DLP chip with "brilliant color" ?

With DLP the light engine is sealed so there's no worries of having dust blobs on the LCD panels..


Well, that certainly is not a given for all DLP fps, only some. Having the engine sealed is not a capability reserved for one technology or another - it's simply a feature, like lens shift which manufacturers put in or don't.

Does the Epson really have a zero pixel defect warranty? If so, this may be worth the price difference for us, uh :o , say retentive folks. I see nothing in the warranty or manual that states anything that would confirm or deny this.

Two of the competing LCD systems specifically state in the manual or sales brochure that bad pixels are not a defect. Does Epson take this position or are bad pixels a defect?

From the Panasonic AE9000 manual: The liquid crystal panel of the projector is built with very high precision technology to provide fine picture details. Occasionally, a few non-active pixels may appear on the screen as fixed points of blue, green or red. Please note that this does not affect the performance of your LCD.

:eek: Does not affect the performance? Who are they kidding? :(

From the Panasonic AE9000 brochure: *1: The projector uses a type of liquid crystal panel that typically consists of millions of pixels. This panel is built with very high-precision technology to provide the finest possible image. Occasionally, a few pixels may remain turned on (bright) or turned off (dark). Please note that this is an intrinsic characteristic of the manufacturing technology that affects all products using LCD technology.

So everyone has this problem?

Well, looking at the Sanyo Z-4 manual:LCD panels are manufactored to the highest possible standards. Even though 99.99% of the pixels are effective, a fraction of the pixels (0.01% or less) may be ineffective by the characteristics of the LCD panels.

0.01% or less, that sounds good, wait, let's see there are 2,764,800 pixels (1280 x 720 x 3 colors) so 0.01% of the pixels are 276! :mad: Wow, the projector is in spec with 276 bad pixels!

The Epson 550 is looking better every second!

"Having the engine sealed is not a capability reserved for one technology or another "

I believe it has so far been the case; I can't think of an LCD or LCOS that is sealed.

I believe it's because 3-chip architecture makes it impractical, so it may even be the case for 3-chip DLP.

Oh boy ..Oh boy.... Got my demo unit 800 pro .. Hopefully will have time to toy with it ..

Opened the box.. and it looks better than I remembered it.... Trust me the pictures don't do it justice. A very fine lookin piece. Finished in a black pearl.... love the look.

The box on the 800 is huge... But it has the mount and the extra lamp in it so it takes up a bit of space.

The stickers on it say TW800 ... and there is other references to other models in the brochure ie the TW600 comes up. Me thinks this is a different beast entirely. I expect the 550 will come looking mighty fine as well but in the white pearl.. I will get into the box hopefully during the holidays and put some gear on it to test it. Just looking at the unit ...picking it up ....this is in a different league to the build quality to the Panny, or the Z4. It appears to weigh in at about 11 or 12 lbs.

************************************************************ ******

Toups... Epson in Canada has a zero fault tolerance.. I suspect it is the same in North America. Trust me they take that stuff seriously and there is no problem or funny stories about what number of pixels and in what area and what color of a pixel problem ... Zero fault with Epson means zero fault tolerance.

The mount looks like a peerless built mount .... actually have to say its well built... Twist off plate for the projector.. Think these mounts are selling for about 260.00.

Msink... I think the older Epson 500 compared to the Infocus 7200. The 550 would compare quite a bit more favorably. On the original 7200's there was also quite a few problems all related to using cheap parts in the lens assembly.


Any way gotta scoot to get some xmas junk done... Hopefully will have a bit of time to play and give some impressions before leaving for CES.

Greetings all,

I just completed two weeks with the Pro Cinema 800 and have posted the review on my website, and also put a thread in the over $3500 area.

I have more comments on the other thread, but here's a link to the review.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/procinema800/index.asp

It's 90% done. I still have to post the "Performance" page - menus, remote, screen recommendations, noise, etc. But everything else is there!

I really enjoyed this projector. Of all I have seen around its price range, only the DLP H78DC3 seems to be serious competition. (And it is sharper than the 550 and Panny 900u on DVD.

Happy holidays to all. -art

cool, it sounds like the 800 is in fact not simply a TW600 that has been jacked up in price. Sounds like the 800 is what I originally figured it would be and that is an upgraded Epson 500 with the new panels and new technology. That is pretty impressive since the 500 is a great PJ but I dunno how many will buy it for 4500.

I'd upgrade to it from my 500 if I didn't plan on waiting for the the next round of pjs next fall.

Quick question: Does the Movietime come with a built in kind of trippy screensaver for when you put CD's into the unit? A bunch of my friends like to come over and get real drunk and whatnot :rolleyes: and I got some CD's that would be great with some graphics blaring onto the screen while the CD plays. Any feedback?

oops wrong forum. Ignore above post.

Has anyone found out the difference with the TW600 model compared to the 550 or 800 ?

Presenter .... great review of the 800. Great info and well presented. My take on the units seen prior to my demo arriving is very similar. Should be getting a 550 to compare directly as well but likely won't have time to compare till after I return from CES.

Robert

...
Toups... Epson in Canada has a zero fault tolerance.. I suspect it is the same in North America. Trust me they take that stuff seriously and there is no problem or funny stories about what number of pixels and in what area and what color of a pixel problem ... Zero fault with Epson means zero fault tolerance.
...

Mandarax,
Thanks for the reply!

Hopefully the US has the same policy as Canada! Also hopefully the policy is the same for the 550 and 800. Although I can't find the link, I thought someone on the web implied that part of the advantages/features of the 800 was that it had a zero pixel defect policy while the 550 did not.

A google search had yielded conflicting information.

Some touted that Epson has a zero pixel policy while others complained of a many dead pixel policy.

Of course, hearsay on the web, may not be too reliable, but there is nothing at all that I have been able to find on the official Epson website or pdfs of the manual and warranty.

Also, it may vary from country to country, there was a report that a country (Japan maybe) passed a law that may have mandated a zero pixel defect policy.

A post on a another forum states the Epson has a 20 dead pixel policy, but that post was from 2002 so I assume that policies change.

-------------

P.S. I too am curious about whether the projector can stretch a 2.35 to use the full pixel panel for possible use with an add-on anamorphic lens.

P.S.S. Also, how much vertical shift is there? The spec sheet states 100% and the manual says the projector needs to be within the bottom or top edge of the screen. So is it +/-50% vertical, meaning the projector needs to be within the screen height (slightly less than the Panasonic AE-900) or is it actually +/- 100% so that the projector can be 1/2 a screen height above or below the screen (equivalent to the Sanyo PLV-Z4?) The reviews state that this projector has a very large shift.

Toups... I don't know about the USA policy but in Canada they both have a ZERO fault policy. The 550 and the 800. I confirmed this.

Aspect Ratio :: I will test out the different auto settings to see what they do when I get a chance...

Heres from the manual page 26...

Choosing the Aspect Ratio

In many cases video signals are automatically resized to fit on your screen when Auto is selected as the Aspect setting. You may need to change the size of the image ( or aspect ratio) for certain image types by pressing the Aspect botton on the remote control.

If your video source is connected to the HDMI, S-Video, or Video port or the Input A port when it is outputting 525I or 525P signals .... select Auoto to automaticall display your image in the correct size.

If the Auto setting is unavailable you may want to chhose one of these settings..

__ NORMAL __ for stand TV broadcasts, computer images, or images with a 4:3 aspect ratio

__ZOOM__ for imagese recorded in 16:9 (wide-screen ) format
__WIDE__ if you want to exand a 4:3 image to 16:9 so it fills the whole screen. This stretches only the right and left sides of the image: the centra part is unchanged. You cannot select Wide when you're using keystone correction.

__SQUEEZE__ for DVDs or video recordings made in a compressed 16:9 format called "squeeze mode".

__THROUGH__ if your image is smaller than 1280x 720 pixels and you want to display it as its original pixel size without resizing it to fit on the screen.

__SQUEEZE Through__ if your image is recorded in Squeeze Mode, is smaller than 1280 x 720 pixels and you want to display it at its original pixel size.

NOTE : If you display a 4:3 image using the Zoom setting, the top and bottom will be cut off. You can use the Zoom Caption option and other settings to resize and repositioin the image to your liking.

Zoom Caption... lets you adjust the shape and position of the image so that subtitles are visible (available only if the aspect ratio has been set to Zoom .. Use vertical Size to adjust the proportions of the image, and Zoom position to move the image up or down ..

Squeeze may in fact be the mode that we are looking for, but the terminology is a bit ambiguous.

Thanks again.

I bought TW520 at Saturday.
This has same spesifications with Cinema 550 but CR is 4000.1

I had 3 projectors before X1-X2-Toshiba T90 XGA DLPs.

Both of them was bothering me due to rainbow effect.
But I checked Benq 7700 less but again rainbow still there :( .

I choose Epson TW520 because % 30 cheaper than Z4 and % 15 cheaper than TW600 in TURKEY.

I demoed Z4 but de-interlacer is bad when you input PAL SDI :( .

First impressions:(I spent only 6 hours)

1- Image is very plasticky and bright in Theather mode.
2- CR is not comparable with H57-H78 but much better than Z4.
3- Aspect ratio adjustment is bad.(wide mode and squeeze trough)
4- Theather Black modes uses cinema filter but result is dark if you compare with same creativity cinema mode on Z4.
5- Lamp counter is not working still showing 0Hr.
6- deinterlacer is good especially at progresive film mode.
7- I connected Toshiba SD-350E via HDMI but I get better image via component but reviewers explains Toshiba's upconverter is not working properly.
8- No Vertical Banding and SDE at 1.5x screen width.

I will send images in two or three days.


TW 520 - Toshiba SD350E(HDMI) - Technics DVD A 10 (dvd audio only)- Marantz AV9000 MM9000- JBL Ti5000 front-Ti center-L surround- Definitive Tech PF18TL Sub.

about the lamp counter....

Unless Epson changed it, the counter won't start showing the hours until it passes 10. I have the Cinema 500 and notcied it wasnt tracking the hours and thought it was broken but read this 10 hour thing in the manual.

Hello everyone.

Just received a 550 (previously sight unseen) last Tuesday. Been messing with it a few days, but nothing too extensive due to the holiday keeping me busy.

I currently have it set up with a ~120" diagonal 16x9 picture on a white wall. This is coming from a 110" diagonal 4:3 picture with my old projector.

Coming from a SharpVision XV-H35U, the first two things I've noticed are the brightness are the resolution. Coming from 500 lumens to 1100/1400 (econo and normal modes) is a huge change. The significantly increased resolution (about ~922k pixels instead of ~112k) is very pleasant for the eyes and looks fantastic.

Now for the concerns I read and was worried about:

Vertical Banding - None that I can tell. I've never really seen what VB looks like. But there is nothing visible that matches the accounts I've read and no real visual phenomena in general.

Noise - Louder in the normal brightness, but not too bad. The Sharp had a distinct fan sound, so it's very possible that I'm just used to have the sound. It's only really an issue for me since I have it (slightly above) above table level near some of the seating.

Panel Alignment - This was addressed in one review I read, as they possible got a bad unit. The edges between high-contrast colors at all parts of the screen seem to be sharp and hold solid without any blues/reds/greens bleeding out. When watching a program such as a sports commentary show or news, the left and right edges of peoples' faces possible have a slight bit of blue or red showing on opposite sides. This only seems to appear in certain situations (possible related to the color behind them) and may just be related to the program or the lighting used in the studio. It seems to be a "sometimes" thing. If anyone has any suggestions for how to better check this, go ahead and let me know.

Screen Door Effect - The screen is about 120" diagonal, meaning by my cheap math that it is about 105" or 8.7' wide. I might adjust this later, but since I just got it, I have to try it big for now. :) Seating is about 11 or 12 feet away, giving a rough ratio of 1.26 for seating distance vs. screen width for the closer distance. If I am watching casually, I don't really notice it. If a particularly bright scene comes up or if I look for it during darker scenes, it isn't too hard too notice. I'm going to experiment with different picture sizes at some point and see if I can make it go away entirely. Regardless, it's a nice improvement over the very distinct pixel structure of the previous projector I used (It even had a de-pixelation filter).

The air exhaust is on the front and blows towards the front right. The noise and flow of air decrease when it is in econo lamp mode.

So far I've tried it with HDTV (digital) through component, a PlayStation2 through component (the only things I've tried so far did 525i) and a PC running MythTV through the HD15 port. HDTV looks great, the PS2 looks very nice (but the scaling is pretty obvious since it's running below the physical resolution) and the PC looks great. I've set the system to run 1280x720 native, so the GUI and Linux in general look good. Since the tuner it has is standard-definition, the recorded programs look as good as a usual TV would, but definately not so great compared to the HD or PS2.

I think that about does it. If anyone has any questions on other things I should check on comment on, go ahead. Sorry if this post was a little lengthy. There are just still very few reviews available for the 550, so I'm trying to give my non-videophile impressions.

EDIT: Yes, the lamp counter starts at 10 hours. I initially noticed that it said 0 when it had definately been on for a few hours. The manual indicates it will start showing at 10.

-A.P. Etc

Rlindo;

Thanks about counter .

Aak

ApEtc, thanks for posting that info. I have a couple questions.

1) Does the projector seem bright enough for you when watching it in the cinema mode? I know the 550 has a much higher lumens output than the Z4 and others but the 550 actually puts out signifigantly less light output than others in Cinema mode. I'm going to be using a 96 diagnal and the room is light controlled and the screen wall is finished with black wall fabric.

2) Do you think the fan will be a problem when watching in cinema mode if the pj is placed on a side wall directly above the right recliner in cinema mode?

3) How would you rate the sharpness and contrast? Some reviews say the 550 beats the Z4 and Panny 900. Others say the 550 has a softer look than both the Z4 and 900. Unfortunately nobody in my area is displaying this model.

4) Could you please post some screen shots? I would love to see some pics of what this pj can do.

I hope you really enjoy your purchase and thanks in advance for any feedback you can possibly give. This is a tough choice. I'm trying to get the best pj for my needs.

ApEtc,
Thanks for posting impressions. One question I have remaining is if the projector will 'squeeze' a 2.35 image to fill the 16:9 panel (for use with an anamorphic lens) ... and over which inputs will it do this (some will only do it over select inputs). Also wondered about the falloff in contrast when switching up to one of the higher power lamp settings, like 'natural'.

Seen the Epson 550 in action at local store on about a 80" screen. loved it !! Even made a good showing right along side a 9000 dollar Sharp running next to it

Hi, I am "New" as a Member but I'am a big fan of AV since 6 months...
I am looking for non-expensive (2000 euros) PJ for my friend's PUB (3 "rooms" - normal pub, bowling and discoteque). Here is the deal:
I am big HDTV fan... right now in Europe we have only 2-3 channels of HD but in 2006 we can get more... I want to make some HD shows on "discoteque room" once a week and prepare audience for WC2006 :D . I have quite big room (160m2) without windows but with some ambient light (bar, some low-light lamps), great audio (4 disco :cool: speakers), audience around 50-75 people...

I'd like to have picture - 120" - 150" diagonal...
Source - HDTV only...

I am thinking of TW600 at first place (more lumens)... or AE900, Z4?
I need real help :confused:

Regards / Cezarh
P.S. Sorry for poor my language ;)

Cezarh:
With the color mode set to "Living room" you can easily get a high quality
image of up to 200"
This comes from a reliable source in sweden where I live: Bigscreen Entertainment
(sorry they only post their reviews in swedish)
Hope this info helps

has anyone custom timing for powerstrip for the Epson 600 for HDMI at 720p ?The solution is very simple: use the “Output scaling = Larger” parameter.

Very simple, but sure less than obvious :D

aquastealth:

thx for info, but do You think that TW600 will do better PQ (HDTV - football mostly) than AE900 and Z4 on a bigger screen (140" - 160")? I wanna :D make nice show in this place for WC2006, of course HDTV only... question: is it possible with PJ's like TW600?

regards / Cezarh

aquastealth:

thx for info, but do You think that TW600 will do better PQ (HDTV - football mostly) than AE900 and Z4 on a bigger screen (140" - 160")? I wanna :D make nice show in this place for WC2006, of course HDTV only... question: is it possible with PJ's like TW600?

regards / CezarhBy chance I can answer this: I currently use a TW600 on a 165" High Power screen. The TW600 is a temporary machine until bright 1080 PJs are available, therefore perfection is not required with this setup.

The color filter corrected "natural" mode is just bright enough with a fresh lamp. I should say that I dislike bat caves, so I like the picture at say 20+ fl, tolerating from time to time also some ambient light.

The "living room" mode has no color filter, but gets a surprisingly good picture, however sure worse than "natural". But in turn you get plenty of brightness. This might be your mode of choice for "football" (I guess you mean soccer ;)). If you go to "dynamic/lively", you unleash some further brightness reserves. You pay for this with losing color correctness completely, but for a soccer game, this may be ok.

Summary: I guess the TW600 will do the job for you, if you use a high gain screen. But that's not so sure for PJs "like TW600", because they all are darker, at least in their brightest modes.

With respect to high gain screens, the high power is by far the best, if you can adapt to its installation requirements. You find a lot about this here in the forum.

ApEtc, thanks for posting that info. I have a couple questions.

1) Does the projector seem bright enough for you when watching it in the cinema mode? I know the 550 has a much higher lumens output than the Z4 and others but the 550 actually puts out signifigantly less light output than others in Cinema mode. I'm going to be using a 96 diagnal and the room is light controlled and the screen wall is finished with black wall fabric.

2) Do you think the fan will be a problem when watching in cinema mode if the pj is placed on a side wall directly above the right recliner in cinema mode?

3) How would you rate the sharpness and contrast? Some reviews say the 550 beats the Z4 and Panny 900. Others say the 550 has a softer look than both the Z4 and 900. Unfortunately nobody in my area is displaying this model.

4) Could you please post some screen shots? I would love to see some pics of what this pj can do.

I hope you really enjoy your purchase and thanks in advance for any feedback you can possibly give. This is a tough choice. I'm trying to get the best pj for my needs.

1. The output in the lower mode is supposed to be 1100 lumens. At nighttime (the room is not entirely light controlled), the picture looks very good on a 126" screen. On a 96" screen in a controlled enviroment, I don't think you'll have a problem. Worst case, use the full brightes. :)

2. I have the projector about 30" off the ground around 2' from the nearest seat. It isn't dead silent in cinema mode, but is fairly quiet. If the Shuttle PC or PS2 are on, even though neither is too loud, they are already louder than the projector.

3. The Panasonic 900 and Sanyo Z4 were both on my list of projectors I was interested in, but I've never seen them in person. I bought this one without having seen it as well. Subjectively, the picture is sharp and satisfying, but I cannot directly contrast it to the above two models.

4. What sort of pictures are you looking for? I'm not entirely sure what would best reveal the capabilities of the unit.

ApEtc,
Thanks for posting impressions. One question I have remaining is if the projector will 'squeeze' a 2.35 image to fill the 16:9 panel (for use with an anamorphic lens) ... and over which inputs will it do this (some will only do it over select inputs). Also wondered about the falloff in contrast when switching up to one of the higher power lamp settings, like 'natural'.

It has a good number of aspect modes, some which seem to do very awkward things. I think one may even be called "squeeze". What would be a quick way to test if any of them do the scaling/conversation you are looking for?

As far as contrast, I haven't played with the Natural mode. I've mostly watched things in the "Living Room" (full brightness) mode and "Theater Dark 1" (lesser brightness) mode. They seem to give the most vibrant (although not neccesarily most realistic) colors. Whites appear nice in the two modes I mentioned and blacks are dark, but distinct compared to the unlit walls around the image.

Let me know if there is anything else I can check and I'll see what I can do.

-A.P. Etc

kuebler:

Thx, a lot of useful words :D
Did You try this setup (TW600 + 165") with some HD material? If - yes - how it looks?
From my side this is some kind of investment... I don't want to earn money... but I want people to say: hey, PQ is great (big also) and i want more... soccer especially ;)
If I buy TW600 it will make me happy and my customers :confused: ??

regards / Cezarh

kuebler:

Thx, a lot of useful words :D
Did You try this setup (TW600 + 165") with some HD material? If - yes - how it looks?
There are only very limited possibilities right now here in Germany. But what I have looked at looks very nice.
From my side this is some kind of investment... I don't want to earn money... but I want people to say: hey, PQ is great (big also) and i want more... soccer especially ;)
If I buy TW600 it will make me happy and my customers :confused: ??

regards / CezarhI guess for you the TW600 is clearly the best machine in its price class. Period.

But our complicated world always has left a "but"... :o

...the best machine, but if I interpret your remark "my customers" right, then you want to use the PJ in a pub or something like that, I mean with many people watching.

This rules out the marvellous High Power screen, which has a gain of 2, effectively doubling the brightness in the same way like if you use a standard screen with double the lumens. The High Power works only within a narrow viewing cone, so its ideal for a sofa for 2 or 3 people, standing in the axis of the PJ<->screen.

In a pub or something similar you have lots of ambient light, so you need really high brightness. Don't underestimate this. You may resort to another high gain screen, but this leads to some hotspotting. This is an imhomogenity of the screen's brightness, i.e. like a mirror the reflected light of the PJ lens shows up on a spot in the screen. It's not a catastrophe, but also not irrelevant.

You sure have to reduce screen size with significant ambient light, but if the ambient light is significant, then the reduction must also be significant, and this can ruin the nice big picture impression. Then you might be even better off with a plasma display, or with a real "light cannon" PJ (before the TW600 I operated a 5,200 lumen Epson 8300).

So depending on your challenging environment, the TW600 may be relatively the best, but still absolutely not sufficient.

ApEtc,
It has a good number of aspect modes, some which seem to do very awkward things. I think one may even be called "squeeze". What would be a quick way to test if any of them do the scaling/conversation you are looking for?Thanks! Just find a widescreen 2.35:1 aspect ratio dvd, and play it. See if there is a mode where the entire width is displayed, and the height has been sttretched to fill the entire 16:9 panel/display/screen. Then, if possible, I'd like to know if it does this over all its inputs (particularly HDMI and component). As far as contrast, I haven't played with the Natural mode. I've mostly watched things in the "Living Room" (full brightness) mode and "Theater Dark 1" (lesser brightness) mode. They seem to give the most vibrant (although not neccesarily most realistic) colors. Whites appear nice in the two modes I mentioned and blacks are dark, but distinct compared to the unlit walls around the image.I think kuebler has mostly answered this ... it appears he uses 'natural' on a larger screen than I and still has good color and contrast. I'd be using this for 'football' etc, and the darkest mode for movies.

I think kuebler has mostly answered this ... it appears he uses 'natural' on a larger screen than I and still has good color and contrast. I'd be using this for 'football' etc, and the darkest mode for movies.I estimate that "living room" has app. 1,000 lumens, "Natural" has 350, and "Theater Dark 1/2" have 200. So for football with ambient light Natural is too dark.

I'll measure these modes eventually and will post.

Thanks! What I'd seen/heard was that the various 'theater' modes had 235-240, and dynamic had 950. That would leave natural and living room somewhere in between. I was hoping natural was at around 500. Only 350 puts it at about the calibrated theater modes of the AE900 and Z4 ... and as you say, too dark for ambient light. It'll be interesting to see what you find.

There is not much of a diffrence in brightness when the cinema filter is activated (natural, theatre, theatre black 1/2)

I would say CKL numbers are a good indication, i would say aprox 300-330 natural and 260-280 theatre black 1/2.

NOT for ambient light such as fotball games you must switch to living room or dynamic.

The cinema filter is brutal when cutting lumens, i would have wanted natural to be 500 considering 1600 in the spec (TW600).

I would say:

Theatre black up to 100" in a dark room.

Natural above 100" in a dark room.

Ambient light such as tv-watching Living room or Dynamic, Living room have better colors

I have read conflicting information, but it appears that the 550 can not be vertically lens shifted in such a way to not have the center of the lens above or bellow the top or bottom of the screen wihtout having to use keystone correct.

Can any owners confirm this?

Thanks,
John

You have a shift of 150% in both dimensions.

You have a shift of 150% in both dimensions.

So I take the Manual is not correct...The one I downloaded states that you need to use keystone correction if the projector is mounted above or bellow the top or bottom of the image.

Thanks,
John

Hi,
Guys thx for help, IMO TW600 is better than AE900 and Z4 for my investment ;) .
Extra lumens are more important with HDTV WC2006 (on 150" diagonal with ambient light) than for example black levels or sharpness... I have still some questions but I will post them next year :D ...
Right now THX for infos, HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Regards / Cezarh

Extra lumens are more important with HDTV WC2006 (on 150" diagonal with ambient light) than for example black levels or sharpness... If you should unavoidably have the combination of
- 150" screen
- ambient light
- not a limited viewing area (ruling out the High Power screen)

then you are out of luck, even the TW600 doesn't do the trick, and there is a high probability that you will be disappointed.

Either change one of the above parameters substantially, or buy a used light cannon (if calibrated, they can provide very good PQ as well, as I know from mine).

Rarely miracles happen, as desirable as they may be. Sylvester may be a good opportunity to think about it :D

In that sense Happy New Year to you as well ;)

I saw photos of the new Epson 550 on this forum and while they looked pretty clear, the colors were pale and washed out. Could this be due to the Epson 550 having higher lumens? Is is possible to tone it down? Pictures of the Pana 900 and Sanyo Z4 that I have seen looked much deeper in color.

Well, I just got my new 550 today. My new house won't be finished until the end of the month but I couldn't resist hooking it up and projecting it on the wall of the rental house we are in now.

All I can say is wow. :eek:

On Natural it is easily bright enough to watch projected on a cream colored wall with a 100 watt lamp sitting beside the adjacent wall. I was stunned.

I lowered the lights and put it on theater black 2 (which I expect to be the mode I use in my theater room) and put on Madagascar and it looked awesome...on a cream colored wall with white ceilings and some ambient light!

Jeff,
I would not trust pictures of screenshots to make a real evaluation of these projectors, unless of course the same person is taking the screenshots in the exact same circumstances after the projectors were calibrated to equal color temperature, etc

John,
I just had the bottom of the image projected at least 6 inches above the top of the projector and only used the lens shift to accomplish this task.

Now I am trying to scheme ways to set up my speakers so I can get a taste of real home theater before my new home is completed. :D

ApEtc,
Thanks! Just find a widescreen 2.35:1 aspect ratio dvd, and play it. See if there is a mode where the entire width is displayed, and the height has been sttretched to fill the entire 16:9 panel/display/screen. Then, if possible, I'd like to know if it does this over all its inputs (particularly HDMI and component).

I actually don't have any 2.35:1 DVDs. Much of what I have is letterboxed or some level of widescreen, but nothing is actually 2.35:1, so I was hoping for some feasible alternative of a test I could do.

-A.P. Etc

I saw photos of the new Epson 550 on this forum and while they looked pretty clear, the colors were pale and washed out. Could this be due to the Epson 550 having higher lumens? Is is possible to tone it down? Pictures of the Pana 900 and Sanyo Z4 that I have seen looked much deeper in color.

It'd look like that from user setup issue.

I havent seen the PJs in action but going by the past models from Epson, the 550 will be the most accurate out of the box in the correct picture setting.

Anyone here tried watching "Sin City" or a similar very dark high contrast movie on the Epson 550? I tested at a store that did not have the best light control and it just didn't seem to do a god job with it, even in the Theatre modes. It looked really washed out and seemed to have trouble with black...maybe it was just too much ambient light...want to know, because otherwise it looked great.

PlayingHD sources even with medium to high ambient light with the Living Room Mode...pretty good colors and extremely watchable with lights dimmed lights partially on the screen.

Thanks,
John

"Anyone here tried watching "Sin City" or a similar very dark high contrast movie on the Epson 550? I tested at a store that did not have the best light control and it just didn't seem to do a god job with it, even in the Theatre modes."

NO pj has a chance with poor light control.

The theater mode would have even less contrast, because the brightness is less with the same black level, which is determined by the ambient light, not the pj.

Noah,

I agree with you in theory...the lowest black level is control by the ambeint light

A projector will also determine the level of black if can not block out light correctly.

Black level of the screen as a result of ambient light + whatever light leakage from the projector + video calibration really determines black level, not just the ambient light.

My old DLP even with a fair amount of ambient light looks like it has better black levels and contrast than what the Epson was doing (Given the same source materia)...maybe it was more an issue of contrast than black level. But the contrast of my projector is only 700:1 Full on / off...I am not sure what the real contrast ratio of the Epson 550 is in comparision to that since the 3000:1 is obtained through trickery with the iris and no one actually measures this the same way.

Are you saying with the Epson 550 in a good light controlled room I can get good black levels and good conrast with dark material like "Sin City"?


Thanks,
John

I am not trying to bash the 550.

I am just trying to determine if with a light controlled room and proper calibration if I can get good black levels from any LCD since every place I went to that had LCDs looked washed out with a lack of any black level even when using the low lumens theatre settings and a dark room...one of the places even a good light controlled room and it look worse than the 550. I am sure part of this is that any store trying to sell an LCD over a DLP is focusing on its obvious strength which is ambient light viewing of bright and colorfull TV, but I gotta believe that people would not rave about these projectors on these forums if they could not, even with good light control, actually get black on LCD.

Thanks,
John

Happy new year.

My wife and I went to Atlanta (2 hours away) Friday on a projector auditioning marathon. Spent over an hour watching the Mits. 3000 and were just blown away by the color/picture. We took "Winged Migration" for demo purposes and selected the Amazon chapter. The parrots were just bursting with color--beautiful, bright picture! We saw no rainbows until a chapter in "Citizen Kane" when we spotted a few (Chapter 4--rainy night in bar) and while they were much less obvious than we'd seen on other DLPs they were still there and Katie complained of some eye fatigue after we left. Admittedly this could be due to our both constantly straining to look for them--and sitting for over an hour way too close to a 106" screen (9 feet).

We then went to a place that carried the Sony HS51, which proved to be so dim and lackluster compared to the 3000 that we never even considered it.

Then on to another store where we were very impressed with the Epson Cinema 800. The 550 had literally just arrived and wasn't set up for audition but the 800 proved a very close second (to our eyes) to the 3000. I knew this store had a DWIN (over $6000) projector and when we walked in I saw the rear room was displaying a dazzling picture and I was sure it was the DWIN--turned out to be the Epson. It wasn't properly calibrated--reds were a bit off--but the colors and picture were very very good.

Last stop we saw a Pana 700--don't think the cheap DVD player was helping but we weren't that impressed, considering what we'd seen earlier (would have liked to have auditioned the 900 but it wasn't available).

Best HD picture we saw was the 3000. In fact, overall the 3000 won, followed closely by the Epson 800 (at $4500). I WANT the 3000 but I DON'T WANT eye fatigue or headaches due to RBE. This is my first projector and the selection/education process is a doozy!!

We may go back to Atlanta on Saturday to spend more time with the 3000 and to audition the 550.

Arthur,

That is great to hear.

Were any of the LCD projectors you saw properly calibrated and / or in Light controlled rooms? Did they actually do justice to "Citizen Kane" in terms of black Levels and contrast in comparision to the Mits. 3000? It is a little disappointng that the 800 didn't show well in terms of color since they claim to be ISF calibrated out of the box...or at least as close as possile without being done onsite.

It is so discouraging for me since any respectable dealer around here seems to either not calibrate there LCDs or put them is such poor light that they look horrible on dark material...while the DLPs are calibrated and look great with darks...unfortunately DLP is no longer working for me...I see rainbows, but worse now I get serious eye fatique from them.

Thanks for the report and I look forward to hearing your impressions on the 550 if you get a chance to see it,
John

It is a little disappointng that the 800 didn't show well in terms of color since they claim to be ISF calibrated out of the box...or at least as close as possile without being done onsite.

Maybe the 800 is perfect in accuracy but his preference is different than what may be accurate. I mean unless he took a meter with him and did measurements it is hard to make a conclusion based on what he may consider to be "off." For all we know he has a degree of colour blindness when it comes to red or maybe he is so used to inaccurate red reproduction that anything that isn't what he expects is deemed to be "off."

Note I am not saying he is wrong but merely pointing out one can't make conclusions based on what someone says about things being "off" unelss they have the calibrated test equipment to prove it.

As for your question regarding Sin City...havent seen the 550 but I have the Cinema 500 and Sin City looked pretty good on it. I'd expect the 550 or other new LCD pjs to do as good or better job with it.

Thanks Rob,

Point well taken on the 800. Also the source could also have a red push too...I know my old DVD player this problem.

I think I am going to call the dealer with the 550 and see if I can't convince him to schedule a time to temporarily move it to his theatre room with lighting control for a demo. I have to believe it can do much better in a light control room.

John

All the rooms were totally light controlled. My reason for saying the reds were off on the 800 is based on (a) knowledge that the Mits. 3000 we auditioned was professionally calibated by a member of this forum and (b) the reds in the Amazon parrot's feathers on our demo DVD perfectly conformed to the reds shown on our home RPTV. When later that day I fiurst saw the Epson I was almost sure that the football helmets were supposed to be red--not a strange purplish color. Sure enough, when we played the Amazon chapter from "Winged Migration" the parrots' brilliant reds were infused with purple. I'm convinced the projector wasn't correctly calibrated.

I should say I don't know beans about projector technology but I have shot video for a living for ten years and have a decent eye for color and black level (don't know much about pjs--but I know what I like! :p ). It is mind-blowing how good these things are for the money! I can't wait to make my mind up and order one!

"Did they actually do justice to "Citizen Kane" in terms of black Levels and contrast in comparision to the Mits. 3000?"

It's a crime to use a great film like CK for a RBE-O-Meter but that's what we've been doing. That said, IMO, Kane does lose some black level and contrast and some of that silver-glow "punch" that our 48" Toshiba CRT provides (and I mean DLP and LCD). My very initial (and peripheral) impression is that B&W isn't as impressive/punchy on the big screen as color material. I did notice this with "On The Waterfront" as well.

Arthur,

Thank you, but I guess what I meant was did the DLP projector stand out as being much better than the LCD projectors in reguard to Black Level and Contrast or was it only slightly better? I wish I could go with a CRT projector, but jus too much money and effort to keep going and well sadly CRT is falling out of favor in almost every market.

John

Any chance of anyone with the 550 posting screen shots? I have seen a decent amount of shot from the Z4. I would really like to compare.

"Are you saying with the Epson 550 in a good light controlled room I can get good black levels and good conrast with dark material like "Sin City"?"

No. Even if I'd seen a 550, I don't know what you consider good.

"It is a little disappointng that the 800 didn't show well in terms of color since they claim to be ISF calibrated out of the box."

The ISF cal can't apply for all the picture modes; perhaps the dealer was using a brighter, less accurate one.

OK Noah...

I am posting here asking other people who either own a 550 or have seen a 550 in action to tell me how the black levels compared to DLP projectors

Why would you answer a post about a 550s black levels and contrast if you have not even looked at one, let alone own one?

Or why would you not see that I want a relative comparision to even HC3000(DLP) mentioned by Arthur 2 posts above?

Specifically what I consider good is my old 848x480 DLP which has a spec of 700:1 contrast ratio. The 550 has a spec of 3000:1. Even with an over hyped LCD contrast ratio based on iris trickery I would expect the 550 do at least as well as my old DLP. In fact from what many reviewers have suggested I should expect D5 LCDs ( Granted more specifically they are referring to the Panny 900 and Sanyo Z4) to do as well as the BENQ PE7700 and so far 3 LCD projectors I have viewed are not even close to the performance of my old DLP let alnoe the PE7700....both of which I have rewatched the same scenes from "Sin City" several times.

The LCDs look grey and washed out and best with a total absence of black. I have even seen them in light controlled rooms. So I question that LCDs in general have any ability even in light controlled environments to get close to Black in a high contrast movie. I am hoping this is wrong...and I have just been to 2 poor excuses for Home Theatre stores that can not setup and LCD properly.

John

I am a projector newbie. I can only say that I was very impressed with the 3000's and the 800's picture quality. I was not particularly focused on the black level or contrast. I'm going back to Atlanta on Saturday to see the 550 and spend more time with the 3000 and will try to be more aware of these issues. I should be able to A-B the 550 with the 800, which should be interesting.

The fact that the couple of B&W classics I've seen on DLP and LCD seem a bit "faded" and bland might well indicate the absence of black and contrast. I haven't noticed this when the picture is in color.

Thank You Arthur.

That makes sense...we all go to look at display devices with different criteria.

I agree in color the lack of black and constrast is much harder to see.

John

"Why would you answer a post about a 550s black levels and contrast if you have not even looked at one, let alone own one?"

You asked me.

Sorry...

I made the poor assumption that if you were answering a question posted in the 550 thread that you had some experience with the product...but you were simply answering the general question I posed in reguard to high ambeint light making the image look washed out.

John

Hey Guys
I just got the 550 and the 800 here, in Los Angeles,
I did a nice comparision with a person here who thought the 550 was better calibrated than the 800 out of the box... I agree... I mean these were just cracked open and plugged in when we did this. we compared the AE900U too and we were surprised to see the Ae900u giving the 550 a run for the money. I also pulled out the Sanyo z4 and it wasnt really competing with the others. It had a low default brightness vs. the others . AE900 and 550 had an overall richness of picture. with all the red green blue levels well balanced.

Depth of black went with the 550 though. .. I'll report more as I play with them a bit more guys

tico
TVA
tico@tvauthority.com

Hey Guys
I just got the 550 and the 800 here, in Los Angeles


whoah you're in Los Angeles? I am in LA and want to test drive the 550, AE900 and others next Monday. Please tell me where you got your 550 and what store/showrooms in the L.A. area I can go to to check it out.

I also just made a thread *HERE* (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=625263) feel free to respond :)

isamu,

Tico works for TV Authority. I have worked with him before on the phone and he has been most helpfull. It sounds like they just got in the new Epsons into their showroom. I wish I was in the LA area and could go to their store since they seem like they would be more helpfull than many of the stores around here. Especially since they carry such a broad range of equipment. Around here it seems that a store will at best carry two projector manufacturers with one the manufacturers being a high brand out of my price league.

John

It makes no logical sense for the 550 to be better calibrated than the 800 unless of course Epson just blew their load on the one calibrated picture setting for the 800 and the others are just way off and the person comparing the two Pjs didnt compare the 800's calibrated setting.

I spoke to a salemans that sells Epson. He said the 550 is better than the Sanyo Z4, and Panasonic 900. They also sell those models. He said they had 1 Epson 500 left for $3300. I asked the difference and he said the 500 is a better unit than the New 550. The 500 compares more to the New 800. He said the Epson PJs have the best quality. An long bulb life. They run cooler than other brands.

The saleman I spoke to said the Epson500 compares more to the New 800. The 550 isn't as good as the 500. They had 1 500 left for $3300, and he said it was worth the extra $800 over the 550. So the 550 won't give you quite the picture the 500 will.

Any chance of anyone with the 550 posting screen shots? I have seen a decent amount of shot from the Z4. I would really like to compare.

Here is the thread I posted some sceenshots .. note the room was dark and again digital camera adjustment was at clicknshoot mode..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=624231

isamu,

Tico works for TV Authority. I have worked with him before on the phone and he has been most helpfull. It sounds like they just got in the new Epsons into their showroom. I wish I was in the LA area and could go to their store since they seem like they would be more helpfull than many of the stores around here. Especially since they carry such a broad range of equipment. Around here it seems that a store will at best carry two projector manufacturers with one the manufacturers being a high brand out of my price league.

John


What is TV Authority and where exactly are they located?

Just click on the Link at the top of the Forum. They are an AVS Forum Alliance Partner.

John

The saleman I spoke to said the Epson500 compares more to the New 800. The 550 isn't as good as the 500. They had 1 500 left for $3300, and he said it was worth the extra $800 over the 550. So the 550 won't give you quite the picture the 500 will.

Haha, the epson 550 (or 520 in europe) is better then the 500 in terms of contrast and black level, screendoor, max lumens output etc.

i would NEVER buy a 500 instead of the new D5 based PJ.

So if he says that the 550 is not as good as the 500 what is he basing that on.

Screendoor?
Contrast?
Blacklevel?
Colors?
Lumens?
etc.

I dont know what he wants to sell to you but it seems like ordinary salesmen talk to try and sell what they want.

If you go $800 above the 550 your close to HS60 in price and the HS60 completely destroys the 500.

If he is saying you should pay $800 extra for the old 500 its just a load of BS in my opinion

I agree. Why would Epson come out with the 550 if the 500 is better. The technology is improving very quickly. It is just like the BenQ 8700 vs the 7700. The 7700 is better and much cheaper than the 8700 but some salesman were trying to push the old 8700 because they needed to get rid of them.

I had recently taken a Cinema 550 & a HDPJ52 home to try out. I found the Epson to be better in almost every respect except it was a little louder than the Hitachi.

So, last night I ceiling mount the 550 and flip the image. The fan speeds up as soon as the image flip is made. Its now as loud as is was in dynamic mode, which is completly unacceptable.

The only saving grace is that the 550 has enough lens shift that it can be mounted on a shelf close to the ceiling and still be able to hit the screen even if the top screen edge is below lens center.

Back to the drawing board....

Scotty,

Are you saying that if the Epson is mounted on a high shelf with no image flip that the fan noise is not as bad, but as soon as the image flip kicks in the fan speeds up?

I didn't notice the fan being real loud in the store, but their was a fair amount of other noise and they had it ceiling mounted running in living room mode.

John

Scotty,

Are you saying that if the Epson is mounted on a high shelf with no image flip that the fan noise is not as bad, but as soon as the image flip kicks in the fan speeds up?

I didn't notice the fan being real loud in the store, but their was a fair amount of other noise and they had it ceiling mounted running in living room mode.

John

Yes, thats exactly right. In a quiet home theater, the increase in noise is (to me) unacceptable. Other than the noise issue(which is easy to solve), Epson has a killer projector on their hands. Way better than the 500.

This is much debated on the swedish forum.

If you cealing mount the epson the fan speeds upp to almost high even in Theatre black mode which is very loud.

But if you want to here a LOUD sound try and cealing mount and then use Natural mode :eek:

ScottyH very interesting about the Epson vs Hitachi here in sweden the Hitachi is regared as the best D5, on what points did you find the epson better.

Did it have better contrast, black-level etc.

ZoomAir, my testing was very unscientific. I placed both projectors side by side on a table. I used interlaced component video out from a Pioneer DV47ai. The screen was a 106" Screen Innovations. The room was dark, no windows, burgundy walls, off white carpet.

The blacks between the two were comparable. The brightness and deinterlacer on the 550 seemed superior to me.

My torture test was a storm scene from Pirates of the Carribean. It was a scene on the deck of the ship, stormy, rainy, dark. The 550 revealed detail in the ropes that I couldn't see with the Hitachi. The picture seemed less "grainy" as well.

I played with the two units for about 4 hours before I called it quits.

Why would the fan speed increase when you flip the projector for ceiling mount?

My guess is that the unit dissipates heat better when it is right side up.

One challenge I've had so far with this projector is getting a perfect 1 to 1 pixel mapped image from a PC to appear. For resolutions below what the projector itself does native, such as 800x600, the "through" aspect option is available and seems to work properly. The image just appears centered and seems to look just fine.

For the exact resolution of 1280x720, the "through" option is again available, but does not appear properly without tweaking. The tracking and sync need to be adjusted, as well as the position. With adjustments on these options, I seem to be able to get the picture to appear for the most part correctly and then save the options using the "memory" menu. However, the memory only seems to retain the display mode (Theater Dark 1). The tracking, sync and position reset to their original settings whenever the video mode is reinitialized (or the system is reboot). Loading the saved memory doesn't change these settings at all.

I'm a little bummed about how much tweaking needs to be done to get it to appear properly and how the projector's memory doesn't seem to be retaining the settings. I'm also a bit annoyed about how the "through" option isn't available for resolutions above the physical resolution of the projector. Using a friends Sharp XV-9000 (a 720p DLP), I could set 1280x1024 (which matches the physical width of the projector), set it's "dot to dot" mode and it would simply cut off the top and bottom, matching the signal properly right away and allowing 16x9 video files to be played. If the memory load on the Epson was working the way the manual indicates it should, it would be fine, but it does not seem to. If anyone has any insight on this, please share.

FWIW, this was typed using my laptop set to 1280x720 on the projector. With the aforementioned tweaks, it looked quite good and with the adjustments I made, I think the 1 to 1 matching is pretty close to being correct. Edges were a bit off until I shut off ClearType :) . When I get very close, there does appear to be a little bit of color bleeding. From my seat using my laptop (about 12' away), it is between unnoticable or a very subtle "blurring" of certain elements. It could be because of the VGA cable I'm using or because the settings still aren't quite right, but it does not appear in any of the test screens or when using component.

An issue I've noticed now that I have the nice-looking computer image on here is that the focus doesn't seem perfectly uniform. It might sound a little odd, but it seems that if I adjust the zoom so that the pixels in the middle of the screen are perfectly sharp, the outside edge is slightly blurry. If I adjust so the outside is sharp, the center is slightly blurry. Mind you, this is very slight, but noticable with an exact 1280x720 image. When watching TV (even HD) or playing PS2, this is not noticable.

I've taken a few photos up close that hopefully show the sharpness or give some hint of SDE to you guys that are worried about it. If anyone has a request for some sort of photo I can set up and take quickly that should help reveal the capabilities, let me know. I'll hopefully have those up in the next day or two. Overall, I'm still very please with the 550 and think the issues I've described aren't really that big of a deal.

Let me know if there are any questions or comments!

-A.P. Etc

Let me know if there are any questions or comments!

-A.P. EtcIf you have the possibility to use the HDMI entry then you should be pixel perfect (in addition you must use the “Output scaling = Larger” parameter).

An issue I've noticed now that I have the nice-looking computer image on here is that the focus doesn't seem perfectly uniform. It might sound a little odd, but it seems that if I adjust the zoom so that the pixels in the middle of the screen are perfectly sharp, the outside edge is slightly blurry. If I adjust so the outside is sharp, the center is slightly blurry. Mind you, this is very slight, but noticable with an exact 1280x720 image. When watching TV (even HD) or playing PS2, this is not noticable.

I have also found this on 1024x768 Epson projectors, and as such was dismissing buying Epson until I read the specs of the 550/600/800.
I could clearly see the focus issue when displaying the menu.

I have had the Epson 550 for about a week and have a very satisfactory experience watching movies (eg. Return of the King,LOTR)etc. I audioned Optoma h78 and Panny 900 before. I found this is a better value,ie. $2500 Canadian (plus taxes). It works perfectly with Oppo 971 dvd player (DVI output set as 1080i) and the Optoma Graywolfe high gain screen..My favorite mode is Theatre during the day and Theatre Black 1 at night.

I am considering have it permanently ceiling mounted. Can anyone out there help me to find a better location . (According to Epson info, the throw should be 15.8 ft )
Room dimension 12 ft(W) where I place my 106” screen x 20 ft (long) x 8 ft (high), ambient light controllable.

Si

An issue I've noticed now that I have the nice-looking computer image on here is that the focus doesn't seem perfectly uniform. It might sound a little odd, but it seems that if I adjust the zoom so that the pixels in the middle of the screen are perfectly sharp, the outside edge is slightly blurry. If I adjust so the outside is sharp, the center is slightly blurry. Mind you, this is very slight, but noticable with an exact 1280x720 image. When watching TV (even HD) or playing PS2, this is not noticable.
Hey there. We just got one of these projectors about 2 or 3 weeks ago and I have been noticing the focus problem as well. As you say, only noticeable when looking at a text filled display, and not really an issue when watching movies or games. Is this just a fact of life with this model?

Other than that, I think it's an excellent machine. I haven't flipped it upside down yet for ceiling mounting though... I'm a bit worried about the noise factor from reading the posts on here. Guess I'll see for myself in a bit...

Evan at PC in his review, kind of lavished the even focus of the 550 across the whole screen.

Focus is affected by using lens shift - the more you use it, the more it affects it, and somewhat by the amount of zoom you use.

Based upon Evan's review, I would say the issue is not universal.

I agree with this the tweaking quote on this model. I took it home the other night and check out "24" on DVD. The overall picture was ok . I believe its set for it "living room" settings. I found the "Dynamic" setting to be lot better for me. The "natural" setting for this projector , with all color options set at 0, was very unimpressive.

But i'll say overall I like the pricture for the price point.




One challenge I've had so far with this projector is getting a perfect 1 to 1 pixel mapped image from a PC to appear. For resolutions below what the projector itself does native, such as 800x600, the "through" aspect option is available and seems to work properly. The image just appears centered and seems to look just fine.

For the exact resolution of 1280x720, the "through" option is again available, but does not appear properly without tweaking. The tracking and sync need to be adjusted, as well as the position. With adjustments on these options, I seem to be able to get the picture to appear for the most part correctly and then save the options using the "memory" menu. However, the memory only seems to retain the display mode (Theater Dark 1). The tracking, sync and position reset to their original settings whenever the video mode is reinitialized (or the system is reboot). Loading the saved memory doesn't change these settings at all.

I'm a little bummed about how much tweaking needs to be done to get it to appear properly and how the projector's memory doesn't seem to be retaining the settings. I'm also a bit annoyed about how the "through" option isn't available for resolutions above the physical resolution of the projector. Using a friends Sharp XV-9000 (a 720p DLP), I could set 1280x1024 (which matches the physical width of the projector), set it's "dot to dot" mode and it would simply cut off the top and bottom, matching the signal properly right away and allowing 16x9 video files to be played. If the memory load on the Epson was working the way the manual indicates it should, it would be fine, but it does not seem to. If anyone has any insight on this, please share.

FWIW, this was typed using my laptop set to 1280x720 on the projector. With the aforementioned tweaks, it looked quite good and with the adjustments I made, I think the 1 to 1 matching is pretty close to being correct. Edges were a bit off until I shut off ClearType :) . When I get very close, there does appear to be a little bit of color bleeding. From my seat using my laptop (about 12' away), it is between unnoticable or a very subtle "blurring" of certain elements. It could be because of the VGA cable I'm using or because the settings still aren't quite right, but it does not appear in any of the test screens or when using component.

An issue I've noticed now that I have the nice-looking computer image on here is that the focus doesn't seem perfectly uniform. It might sound a little odd, but it seems that if I adjust the zoom so that the pixels in the middle of the screen are perfectly sharp, the outside edge is slightly blurry. If I adjust so the outside is sharp, the center is slightly blurry. Mind you, this is very slight, but noticable with an exact 1280x720 image. When watching TV (even HD) or playing PS2, this is not noticable.

I've taken a few photos up close that hopefully show the sharpness or give some hint of SDE to you guys that are worried about it. If anyone has a request for some sort of photo I can set up and take quickly that should help reveal the capabilities, let me know. I'll hopefully have those up in the next day or two. Overall, I'm still very please with the 550 and think the issues I've described aren't really that big of a deal.

Let me know if there are any questions or comments!

-A.P. Etc

Hi,

I'm considering the Epson 550, as well as some others, for a multi-function installation in which I would use the projector for both DVDs (hopefully including 1080 DVDs next year), HDTV broadcasts (Dish), as well as watching standard TV. I have a substantially darkened room with little ambient light. In reading the reviews of the 550 as well as those of others such as the Panasonic 900 and the Sanyo Z4, it seems that some, such as the Panasonic, have better internal processing (scaling, deinterlacing?) than others and provide a better picture from STV. - Does anyone have experience using the 550 for watching STV, or can anyone offer an opinion as to whether the 550 would be a good choice for such an application? I'm aware that many seem to advise against depending on a FP unit for watching standard TV or for extended use, but I understand that the cost of lamps for the 550 are somewhat less than for other units. (Also, I presently have a large 65-inch RPTV between two large Magneplaner speakers, and I'm trying to minimize clutter and obstructions between the two speakers by going with a single FP unit with retractable screen.)

Obviously, I'm a novice relative to FP units and I would appreciate any suggestions for alternative approaches. - Also trying to keep the costs below $2,500 or so, because I anticipate that second generation 1080p systems will be available at reasonable costs in a few years.

Thanks,

Jim Cate

Jim,

I don't own an Epson 550 projector, but I have seen one at a store with a lot of ambient light, and it performed really well in that environment for HD football and HD TV watching.

Truthfully it sounds like from the reviews I have read that if for the most part you have ambient light under control the Sanyo Z4 or Panasonic 900 would be a better value given the current promotions that are being offered. The problem with the Epson 550 is that it really is not selling for less than MSRP of $2495...if others have seen it for less please share :)

I am still personally on the fence as to whether I am going to go with the Epson 550 or the Sanyo Z4. The Z4 is substancially less money than the Epson and they have a free bulb offer right now, but the Epson does so well in ambient light I may use it more...my wife is not a fan of not having lights on in the living room.

Also as noted by another poster in this thread the black levels and contrast levels he is used on his CRT rear Projection TV were severly lacking in comparision.

John

Does anyone have experience using the 550 for watching STV, or can anyone offer an opinion as to whether the 550 would be a good choice for such an application? I'm aware that many seem to advise against depending on a FP unit for watching standard TV or for extended use, but I understand that the cost of lamps for the 550 are somewhat less than for other units.

Hi Jim,

I'm a novice also, but I did have the chance the other day to compare an Epson 550 against a Panasonic 900 (thanks to the nice folks at TV Authority in Santa Monica, CA). I had the same question regarding Standard Def TV, as I have a large collection of DVDs made from an analog S-video signal from my TiVo to a set-top DVD recorder... not the best quality but better than VHS. Unfortunately the projectors were set up w/ component, not HDMI, but I did find out that I prefer the sharpness of the Epson, screen door effect and all, to the slight and odd softness of the Panasonic.

Another thing that I found is that the Epson has a feature called 'Through' Aspect Mode, which allows you to view STV or similar in true 1-to-1 pixel mode, meaning that you're looking at a 720x480 (or perhaps 640x480) image in the middle of a black-ish field (1280x720). I found this FAR more appealing than watching the poor-quality video upscaled on either system. Much sharper and more natural, much like watching a decent quality STV set, but it is maybe 40%-50% smaller than the full 16:9. This doesn't help in regards to comparing to the Sanyo as I believe that it has the same feature (at least the old Z2 did). The Panasonic apparently does not.

I'm not aware that the lamps are any cheaper for the Epson, just that they last longer (hmm, perhaps this is what you meant).

Good luck,
Scott

Jim,

I don't own an Epson 550 projector, but I have seen one at a store with a lot of ambient light, and it performed really well in that environment for HD football and HD TV watching.

Truthfully it sounds like from the reviews I have read that if for the most part you have ambient light under control the Sanyo Z4 or Panasonic 900 would be a better value given the current promotions that are being offered. The problem with the Epson 550 is that it really is not selling for less than MSRP of $2495...if others have seen it for less please share :)

I am still personally on the fence as to whether I am going to go with the Epson 550 or the Sanyo Z4. The Z4 is substancially less money than the Epson and they have a free bulb offer right now, but the Epson does so well in ambient light I may use it more...my wife is not a fan of not having lights on in the living room.

Also as noted by another poster in this thread the black levels and contrast levels he is used on his CRT rear Projection TV were severly lacking in comparision.

John


I liked the idea that the Epson has a higher lumens output for football games and sporting events. However if you read the reviews, the Epson actually has a lower lumens output in cinema mode than that of the Sanyo and Panny. For this reason, and the fact that the Epson's fan is louder, and is signifigantly more expensive, I'm going with the Z4. In addition, there was a poll done recently where people had to pick there favorite of the Z4, AE900, and 550. The Z4 won hands down. More people preferred the Z4's sharper image over the better colors of the 900, and the more balanced look of the 550. If you want to see more about this poll, there is a thread about the subject on projectorcentral.com. With the free buld, the Z4 looks like a no brainer to me.

John,

I mostly agree...but it sounds like from the Z4 thread that the Z4 is just as bad in terms of noise if not worse than the 550 when ceiling mounted.

Where did you find the Poll on Projector central?

John

Jim,

I don't own an Epson 550 projector, but I have seen one at a store with a lot of ambient light, and it performed really well in that environment for HD football and HD TV watching.

Truthfully it sounds like from the reviews I have read that if for the most part you have ambient light under control the Sanyo Z4 or Panasonic 900 would be a better value given the current promotions that are being offered. The problem with the Epson 550 is that it really is not selling for less than MSRP of $2495...if others have seen it for less please share :)

I am still personally on the fence as to whether I am going to go with the Epson 550 or the Sanyo Z4. The Z4 is substancially less money than the Epson and they have a free bulb offer right now, but the Epson does so well in ambient light I may use it more...my wife is not a fan of not having lights on in the living room.

Also as noted by another poster in this thread the black levels and contrast levels he is used on his CRT rear Projection TV were severly lacking in comparision.

John

But I got it for about 20% less than MSRP of $3000 in Canada, ie $2500 Canadian. That is one of the reasons I picked Epson 550.

And it is true, that the Epson does so well in ambient light that my wife is no longer complaining me of making such a purchase.

Good luck to you all.
Si

Jim,


Truthfully it sounds like from the reviews I have read that if for the most part you have ambient light under control the Sanyo Z4 or Panasonic 900 would be a better value given the current promotions that are being offered. The problem with the Epson 550 is that it really is not selling for less than MSRP of $2495...if others have seen it for less please share :)


John


I got the 550 for substantially less than MSRP from my local dealer. PM me for more information if you would like. ;)

I will be setting it up in a couple of weeks and will be posting a detailed review after that.

Does anyone have experience using the 550 for watching STV, or can anyone offer an opinion as to whether the 550 would be a good choice for such an application? ... (Also, I presently have a large 65-inch RPTV between two large Magneplaner speakers...)


I recently bought an Epson 550 (at a good price). And I have a pair of Magneplanar MG 3.6/R loudspeakers, driven by a Mcintosh MC352 amp, with a Velodyne DD15 subwoofer (my system measures essentially flat to 20 Hz). I also ordered a 92-inch Draper Traveller high-contrast gray screen. Until the screen arrived the other day, I was watching the 550 on a cheap 200-thread-count white sheet I had stretched across my Magneplanars. I had to drape a black sheet over the back of the loudspeakers to suppress (light) reflections from the gloss white wall behind the loudspeakers. (I bought the projector, instead of waiting for the announcement of new products at CES, and I bought and hung the sheets, instead of waiting for my screen to arrive, because I could not wait any longer to watch the Cream reunion concert and listen to it on my stereo.) PM me if you want me to send you some pix. Actually, I like the sound so well that I will probably make a more attractive arrangement out of the sheets for my living room, where my stereo is located (until someone comes out with an acoustically transparent, pull-up screen), and just use the screen in my family room (where I have a second, less capable, stereo).

As for STV, I couldn't be happier. When I first got the 550 just after Xmas, I watched some college bowl games, projected on a gloss white wall of my living room. I don't even have digital TV; my TV service is Comcast Expanded Basic Analog. I considered upgrading to HDTV service, but there just isn't enough HDTV programming that I care to watch that I would be willing to pay $25 more per month. Again, PM me if you want me to send you some pix.

I'm working up my enthusiasm for tweaking the 550. I have the Avia test disk, but, as of yet, I have not even put up a menu on my screen; I have not yet pressed a single button on the remote control! All I have done is adjust the lens shift and the focus. And I'm very pleased with the results. I expect the image can only get better when I finally decide to tweak it.

I had been waiting for months for the LG AN110 (flat-wall-mounted) projector to come out. I would have preferred that form factor. However, I just couldn't continue to wait. Plus, the artifacts of dithering in low light scenes by DLP projectors (I am not sensitive to rainbows) persuaded me to go for one of the new-generation LCD projectors. From the reviews I read of the Epson, it met my requirements (I do not have a well-light-controlled environment), and was cost-effective, so I could not see any good reason to wait any longer to buy one. I had read about the panel misalignment problem reported by ProjectorCentral, however, I was willing to take a chance, and I do not see any evidence of this in my unit.

prfssr

But I got it for about 20% less than MSRP of $3000 in Canada, ie $2500 Canadian. That is one of the reasons I picked Epson 550.

And it is true, that the Epson does so well in ambient light that my wife is no longer complaining me of making such a purchase.

Good luck to you all.
Si

I'm still looking for a dealer for the Epson in my area. Are you in BC?
If so might be interesting for me as I'm in WA. Let me know.

I did find some local dealers through epson's web site but it'll pretty much MSRP including almost 9% sales tax... So the Z4/AE900 are at this point a much better bargain at almost $1000 less.

I liked the idea that the Epson has a higher lumens output for football games and sporting events. However if you read the reviews, the Epson actually has a lower lumens output in cinema mode than that of the Sanyo and Panny. For this reason, and the fact that the Epson's fan is louder, and is signifigantly more expensive, I'm going with the Z4. In addition, there was a poll done recently where people had to pick there favorite of the Z4, AE900, and 550. The Z4 won hands down. More people preferred the Z4's sharper image over the better colors of the 900, and the more balanced look of the 550. If you want to see more about this poll, there is a thread about the subject on projectorcentral.com. With the free buld, the Z4 looks like a no brainer to me.


As mentioned in my original question, I'm planning to use the projector for watching standard TV in addition to DVDs and HDTV from Dish. The reviews I have seen seem to indicate that the Sanyo Z4 is about the worst choice for STV, much worse than the Panasonic, with the Epson apparently an intermediate performer. So, since I want to use the system for all the media including STV, I'm not sure the Z4 is a no brainer, for me at least.

Jim Cate

Jim,
From what you are describing as your interests, it may be the new IN76 is the best fit, if you can wait.

As mentioned in my original question, I'm planning to use the projector for watching standard TV in addition to DVDs and HDTV from Dish. The reviews I have seen seem to indicate that the Sanyo Z4 is about the worst choice for STV, much worse than the Panasonic, with the Epson apparently an intermediate performer. So, since I want to use the system for all the media including STV, I'm not sure the Z4 is a no brainer, for me at least.

Jim Cate

You can workaround that as the review mentions with an additional component (other differences you can't).
So for me it's the least important thing (well especially since I have a DVD recorder with HDMI output).

The projectorcentral poll I don't think tells much unless everyone saw the Z4 and AE900 side by side (and I certainly wish I could see them in a local store lined up).

[QUOTE=prfssr]I recently bought an Epson 550 (at a good price). And I have a pair of Magneplanar MG 3.6/R loudspeakers, driven by a Mcintosh MC352 amp, with a Velodyne DD15 subwoofer (my system measures essentially flat to 20 Hz). I also ordered a 92-inch Draper Traveller high-contrast gray screen. Until the screen arrived the other day, I was watching the 550 on a cheap 200-thread-count white sheet I had stretched across my Magneplanars. I had to drape a black sheet over the back of the loudspeakers to suppress (light) reflections from the gloss white wall behind the loudspeakers.

Thanks for the information. - I also use a pair of MG 3.6/Rs as LF and RF speakers. From what I understand, you intend to continue using a white sheet stretched between your Maggies as a screen in your main listening/theater room. - I was curious as to whether you had compared the sound with and without the sheet, and whether there was any difference. In my case, we have a large RP TV between the speakers, and it does seem to mess up the response, since little of the sound reflected from the front wall has a clear shot to the listening area. - I was planning to use a retractable screen that could be retracted when using the stereo without video.

Jim

How well does the 550 perform in ambient light, (ie daytime)?

If the Epson 550 performs well enough with a normal 1.3 gain matte white screen, would it make sense to get those expen$ive ambient light rejecting screens? (ie supernova, iceav, etc)

I won't have direct daylight shining on the screen since the closest window is 90 degrees from it, and the screen is well above the window.

How well does the 550 perform in ambient light, (ie daytime)?

This is kind of a loaded question.

It is going to do well in ambient light with things like football and sports where you are not looking for perfect color and don't need blacks or good contrast, but if you plan on watching a movie you are going to want to change to a different viewing mode. and get ambient light under control. No front projector is going to perform well with ambient light for movie watching, especially if you are looking for good black levels and contrast.

As far as the screen goes I saw it with a inexpensive gray 1.3 gain screen in a place with bad ambient light control and it did ok...but to me it seems silly to spend a lot of money on a screen for a projector in this price range. Frankly I plan on spening $200 on a 92" Optoma Graywolf screen and controlling the light as best as I can for when I want to watch movies.

I still don't own one of these, but I have seen one in bad ambient light conditions at a local dealer.

John

Obviously at night there won't be any problems for watching movies, but during the day I don't want to end up with "permanent darkness -- ie batcave!" whenever I want to use the projector..and mind you, it's going in the living room since I don't have a dedicated HT room.

I mean watching normal (HD)TV during the daytime, will the image from a 550 be washed out or can it handle it with much ambient light?

I went to look at the 550 mid day and the area they had for the 550 was in the front of the store and there was natural sun light pouring in from the left of the viewing area and a bunch florescent lights ceiling lights and recess can lights...some even were hitting the screen and I was actually really enjoying watching ESPN HD with several football games on and other misc HD Movie Channels. The areas where the ceiling lights were hitting the screen were a little washed out, but it was very watachable and once they turned off the lights that were hitting the screen it was very nice. I was using the Living room mode. Once I turned on the Vibrant mode...the brightest mode it had a great deal of punch and even came very close to the brightness of a plasma they had tuned to the same channel.

Another poster even said his wife doesn't mind watching during the day because it is so bright. I am seriously considering buying this because I too have only a living room with tons of windows and no dedicated theatre room...I even feel compelled to close a fair number of shades because of the glare on my 32" CRT, but still my wife likes keeping a couple of shades up to get away from the bat cave feel.

John

Do you know what kinda of screen where they using? A super high gain screen?
gray screen? or a normal 1.3 gain matte white screen?

Obivously, shining light directly on the screen would wash it, even a CRT would suffer. But if this Epson 550 simply "glows" in the presence of ambient light, it's good!

As mentioned in the previous post it was an inexpensive gray 1.3 Gain Screen.

This is kind of a loaded question.

It is going to do well in ambient light with things like football and sports where you are not looking for perfect color and don't need blacks or good contrast, but if you plan on watching a movie you are going to want to change to a different viewing mode. and get ambient light under control. No front projector is going to perform well with ambient light for movie watching, especially if you are looking for good black levels and contrast.

As far as the screen goes I saw it with a inexpensive gray 1.3 gain screen in a place with bad ambient light control and it did ok...but to me it seems silly to spend a lot of money on a screen for a projector in this price range. Frankly I plan on spening $200 on a 92" Optoma Graywolf screen and controlling the light as best as I can for when I want to watch movies.

I still don't own one of these, but I have seen one in bad ambient light conditions at a local dealer.

John

Epson 550 and Graywolf ( that has a 1.8 gain) is a good match. Brilliant colour . I have the same set up.

Si

Edited... please read the rules

What should you look for to make sure that your new
550 is not a victim of panel misalignment . When I project
the grey scale test pattern they upper right and lower left panels
are not the same ( one tends to be warm and one much bluer)
The focus is alittle soft also................
Thanks
Jim

I'm still looking for a dealer for the Epson in my area. Are you in BC?
If so might be interesting for me as I'm in WA. Let me know.

I did find some local dealers through epson's web site but it'll pretty much MSRP including almost 9% sales tax... So the Z4/AE900 are at this point a much better bargain at almost $1000 less.
I bought it in Toronto,Ontario.PM me if you want the names/ phone numbers of the stores.
Si

Originally Posted by Andrea Manuti in Pro Cinema 800
thread in respect of a TW600.

Color Mode = Theater Black 2
Input adjustment
White level = -3
Black level = -1
Brightness = -5
Contrast = -4
Color adjustment
Abs. Color Temp. = 6500 °K
Skin tone = 4
RGB
Offset R = -12
Offset G = 1
Offset B = -12
Gain R = -3
Gain G = 1
Gain B = -4
Gamma = Customized
Auto Iris = On
Epson Super White = Off
Output scaling = Larger
DVI-Video Level = Expanded

The actual customized gamma curve can only be seen through an actual shot,
It's somehow close to 2.2 gamma settings but not the same.



Probably not enough interest at this stage to start a separate tweak thread on the TW600 , but I'm just wondering if we can talk settings for a second.
Andrea has noted his settings running Theatre Black 2 via HTPC, We also
have CKL'S settings from avbuzz on the Natural setting running component.

I'm very interested in some component settings for the Theatre Black 1 mode.
Yes I can do my own brightness and contrast via DVE, but I'm all over the shop re: gamma, RGB gains and colour temperature etc. Eg. In Natural they say D65
is more like 9000k than 6500k in the settings. Obviously when the colour filter kicks in , in the Theatre Black modes, then I imagine it gets closer to D65 at around 7500k.

I understand that anything quoted will be and should be just a guide, but anything posted would be a great reference point to start.

If anybody could post their D65 settings for Theatre Black 1 mode over component, it would be much appreciated. (Assuming matt white screen etc.etc)

Thanks
Waingro
(PS. Have cross posted this in the Pro Cinema 800 (over $ 3500) thread
as well so hopefully we can get half a dozen replies.)

Very few places to purchase this projector it seems. Also, not much activity on this forum for it. But it looks like a great product...maybe a bit overpriced though.

Very few places to purchase this projector it seems. Also, not much activity on this forum for it. But it looks like a great product...maybe a bit overpriced though.

I'm about to bite the bullet on a projector, almost definitely going for the Epson 550. But I agree, the price difference is tough. It does seem to be better built than the Panasonic AE900 and Sanyo Z4 based on complaints on the forums (fewer manufacturing irregularities). Plus it's brighter (when it needs to be) and has a better warranty, and I love the 'Through' aspect mode (which the Panasonic doesn't have). The dearth of dealers is a problem for me, too, though Epson fixes the price so it would be tough in any case to find anything below MSRP. One dealer I just talked to said that they are selling about 15 a week, so it IS selling.

Well, I guess the good news is you probably wouldn't be faced with buyers remorse over a dropping price; cuz it probably won't drop. Older Epson models still seem to be selling for close to their original price. I'll have to look at what the "Through" aspect mode is. Since my new Z3 arrived DOA and is on its way back to the dealer I feel like I want to revisit my options again. Its probably double the price of last years Z3, but the Epson 550 seems very attractive in that it does what all the new LCD's do plus can handle some light if you need it too. And I think the look of it says "cool projector", not "oddly shaped box with a lens on the front."

Woot - got my screen today, and the countdown is on until I get to order my Epson :)

Too bad about no price breaks though :(

-Danny

"Older Epson models still seem to be selling for close to their original price."

I suppose you can always find someone charging MSRP, but many months ago the 200 and 500 were selling for a fraction of their original prices.

I could be wrong...but I believe that the MSRP's on some of the epson's were adjusted right out of the gate. Especially the 200+, and it hasn't really dropped much since. You can still buy that one today, but its far from a bargain.

My point is only to say typically not as much fluctuation on the Epson projectors...probably due to the more limited and controlled distribution. But who am I to say.

I received a discount from my local dealer and purchased the Epson for about the same as the street price of the other similar projectors. However, my dealer did mention that he did not have as much margin on this projector as he normally did. Of course, Epson set a lower MSRP so it all worked out about the same.

My new house is finally finished and my dealer is installing some of my equipment on Monday. I received my 106 inch Carada Criterion earlier in the week and put it together a few days ago. I can't wait to move in next weekend. I will be posting a more detailed review of the projector and the screen as soon as I get a chance.

I called a local dealer and they have the 550 set up and also a few in stock. I'm going to check it out this afternoon. If they can back off of MSRP a bit (maybe a bunch) I might just get it. Paying the tax on it will hurt though, vs online order.

If the screen had a high enough gain, would the Epson 550 be bright enough for a 12 foot wide screen? I am considering acquiring this projector with a Draper M2500.

I'm moving to a new home with a 22' x 22' family room. Though there will be ambient light during the day, most of my DVD watching is at night. I had been considering a Sanyo PLV-70 or 80, but I can't stomach the contrast ratios by today's standards. The Epson 550 seems to be the brightest projector within financial (<$5k) and CR (>2000:1) reason for my needs. I hope it will work. If not, I hope someone has any better ideas!

And, no, I will not reduce screen size!

If the screen had a high enough gain, would the Epson 550 be bright enough for a 12 foot wide screen? I am considering acquiring this projector with a Draper M2500.

We've got ours throwing a 10' wide image on a wall painted with white primer and it looks totally fine in the low light modes ("Theater Black"). As long as the room is dark it's fine. With a proper screen I see no reason why 12' wouldn't be achievable.

If the screen had a high enough gain, would the Epson 550 be bright enough for a 12 foot wide screen? I am considering acquiring this projector with a Draper M2500.I use the TW600 with a 12 foot wide High Power screen. That should be about the same gain as your Draper.

But I have to say I feel only really comfortable (with respect to brightness) when using the Living Room mode. The Cinema mode is ok, when the room is totally dark, but even then I prefer the Living Room mode because of the better "punch". The Theater Dark 1/2 modes are definitively too dark for my taste.

I'm not sure that the Epson's CR will be better than a Sanyo PLV 80. The DI somewhat fools by measuring higher numbers than backed by the visual impression. When the screen content is not totally dark, then the iris does not really switch down. The result is the picture background being gray, as can be easily seen with any 2.35:1 movie.

I don't want to say that I'm not satisfied with the TW600. One just should not have inflated expectations. I bought it as a cheap temporary machine until I can get a bright 1080 PJ, and I would do it again.

I have to say I feel only really comfortable (with respect to brightness) when using the Living Room mode. The Cinema mode is ok, when the room is totally dark, but even then I prefer the Living Room mode because of the better "punch". The Theater Dark 1/2 modes are definitively too dark for my taste.

Hmm, isn't the Living Room mode not particularly well color-balanced for movies? More for sports, news, etc., I believe. The Cinema mode is much better in this respect, but then quite dim in comparison to Living Room mode. More like the competitors (Panasonic AE900, Sanyo Z4). Anyone else care to elaborate? I wonder if the Epson Cinema 800 would be a better choice... It's more expensive but comes w/ a spare bulb and ceiling mount, I think.

Hmm, isn't the Living Room mode not particularly well color-balanced for movies?To my surprise, the Living Room mode has a relatively good color balance. It is the Dynamic (or Lively) mode which trades giving up D65 for even more increased brightness.
The Cinema mode is much better in this respect, but then quite dim in comparison to Living Room mode. More like the competitors (Panasonic AE900, Sanyo Z4).Yes, this is true. I've still been too lazy to make the effort of using my Colorfacts system for measuring the various modes. I still hope, however, that soon I will do and can post some objective findings.
I wonder if the Epson Cinema 800 would be a better choice... It's more expensive but comes w/ a spare bulb and ceiling mount, I think.For my feeling, the US-marketed 800 is overpriced in comparison to the 550. In Europe, the 600 costs app. $2,200 incl. a spare bulb and appears to be identical to the 800 with the exception of the case color.

I will most likely agree with kuebler. I currently have a NEC LT240 and run it in presentation mode for the "punch". I'm not as picky as some of the guys in this forum as far a perfect color balance for movies. All the projectors I ever had had decent color. My pickiness about the brightness,CR, and SDE come from my first Sharp 320x240 LCD projector back in 1995. It had approx 250 lumens with a 100:1 CR.

When I actually get the projector and new screen in about a month, I'll certainly be taking some time to play with the different modes and play with the calibration. I just wanted to make sure that people thought the brightness would be adequate so I can keep this model in the cards (as opposed to looking for another model). My current projector is supposedly 1600 lumens or 1200 in ecomode, so I will have a chance to see for myself with my current 1.3 gain screen that I currently have if it would be adequate before I take the final plunge.

Thanks for your input.

Steeeee,
I'd be careful about stretching yourself too dim right off the bat if you plan on keeping the PJ for any length of time and don't wast to replace the bulb prematurely. If you are looking at alternatives, you might want to pop in on the new InFocus thread. Ostensibly, the new IN76 will have 800+ANSI lumens at D65 calibration (and InFocus is usually pretty straight about such things). That's probably about halfway between Living Room and Dynamic on the 550. Of course, there are other issues and parameters that might favor either the 550 or the IN76 in your own situation and perspective.

So the IN76 is brighter (when comparing a calibrated 550) ?

Obviously at night there won't be any problems for watching movies, but during the day I don't want to end up with "permanent darkness -- ie batcave!" whenever I want to use the projector..and mind you, it's going in the living room since I don't have a dedicated HT room.

I mean watching normal (HD)TV during the daytime, will the image from a 550 be washed out or can it handle it with much ambient light?

As understood, at a given distance, the smaller the projected image the brighter the picture. If this is so, doesn't the picture become brighter when zoomed in (made smaller) and less bright when zoomed out to make it larger? If so, wouldn't watching the picture in a somewhat smaller format during the day (a picture zoomed to be somewhat smaller than the screen) help reduce the apparent effects of ambient light?

Jim

As understood, at a given distance, the smaller the projected image the brighter the picture. If this is so, doesn't the picture become brighter when zoomed in (made smaller) and less bright when zoomed out to make it larger? If so, wouldn't watching the picture in a somewhat smaller format during the day (a picture zoomed to be somewhat smaller than the screen) help reduce the apparent effects of ambient light?

Jim


Yes this will definitely help Jim. You might want to try blackout curtains too.

I had been considering a Sanyo PLV-70 or 80, but I can't stomach the contrast ratios by today's standards. The Epson 550 seems to be the brightest projector within financial (<$5k) and CR (>2000:1) reason for my needs.
The claimed 3000:1 CR on the Epson 550 tops at about over 2000:1. And that's after the iris is closed and you have very low light output. With the iris fully opened, I doubt you'll even get real-world 1000:1 CR. On the other hand the Sanyo PLV-80 gets 1000:1 and full 3000 lumens. Bottom line, at the 550's maximum light output you'll have less CR than the PLV-80 has across the board. And by the way, Sanyo is among the very few manufacturers that does not lie about their specs unlike the bull and hyped numbers everyone throws at the consumer's faces. 3000 lumens on a Sanyo PJ means 3000 lumens and 1000:1 CR means just that. As far as being able to do a hands-on comparison of image quality on a PLV-80 to other projectors, I saw it at Infocomm last year and it looked stunning. Next to it was the Canon Realis (which is also rated at the same 1000:1 contrast) and the image quality and depth of the PLV-80 was stunningly better than the Realis. This only comes to the argument, that CR values on paper can mean very little. Of course the PLV-80 costs more than the Epson 550 (though ironically you can now find it at street prices,lens included, for just over what the Epson 800 retails for) but I'd say is a much, much better unit than both the 550 and the 800 are, in just about every way.

The claimed 3000:1 CR on the Epson 550 tops at about over 2000:1. And that's after the iris is closed and you have very low light output. With the iris fully opened, I doubt you'll even get real-world 1000:1 CR. On the other hand the Sanyo PLV-80 gets 1000:1 and full 3000 lumens. Bottom line, at the 550's maximum light output you'll have less CR than the PLV-80 has across the board. And by the way, Sanyo is among the very few manufacturers that does not lie about their specs unlike the bull and hyped numbers everyone throws at the consumer's faces. 3000 lumens on a Sanyo PJ means 3000 lumens and 1000:1 CR means just that. As far as being able to do a hands-on comparison of image quality on a PLV-80 to other projectors, I saw it at Infocomm last year and it looked stunning. Next to it was the Canon Realis (which is also rated at the same 1000:1 contrast) and the image quality and depth of the PLV-80 was stunningly better than the Realis. This only comes to the argument, that CR values on paper can mean very little. Of course the PLV-80 costs more than the Epson 550 (though ironically you can now find it at street prices,lens included, for just over what the Epson 800 retails for) but I'd say is a much, much better unit than both the 550 and the 800 are, in just about every way.

Sanyo is one of those who "lie" quite a bit in there specs.

The Z4 has one of the lowest calibrated contrast ratio of all D5 and claims 7000:1, yeah right. Also the Z3 was far from 2000:1 at D65.

according to CKL reviews

epson is one of the few who has 5000:1 (TW600) D65 calibrated as it specs, you can reach the claims of the others but then the picture is usually unwatchable (wrong)

Epson is one of the few who can back up their specs at D65.

However the TW600 doesn't have visual 5000:1 because of slow iris but thats another subject.

You can measure 5000:1 at D65 on the TW600 but you are FAR from 7000:1 on Z4

Contrast ratio specs are almost always BS but if you want to credit one manufacturer Epson is one of them who don't exagerate to much, Sanyo is definitely not one of them.

Dont compare 550 to PLV-80 they compete on diffrent things, 550 is aimed to "basic" home-theatre and competes on "contrast" if you want to choose a measure and PLV-80 on lumens.

Compare the specs of 550 to Z4 that compete in the same area, and they you can asses who is "lying"

3000:1 against 7000:1 and all reviews says that the visual contrast of the 550 is on par and even slightly exedes in terms of contrast and black-level.

Where did the difference of 4000:1 on the Z4 go?

"On the other hand the Sanyo PLV-80 gets 1000:1 and full 3000 lumens."

Is that *measured*?

If not, it's silly to just quote spec's.

"On the other hand the Sanyo PLV-80 gets 1000:1 and full 3000 lumens." Is that *measured*? If not, it's silly to just quote spec's.
No, that's just a "silly" quote from me actually. I am just a "silly" guy who has no idea what he is talking about. The unit has not been reviewed yet actually. But, being "silly" as I am, as the PLV-70 got over the 900:1 specs on most hands-on reviews, I would find it "silly" that 4 years later on a next generation PJ with new panels and optical block, it would get less than the earlier model. But then again, one never knows. This is a "silly" industry on all fronts. We have advanced very little in the last 3 to 4 years in both LCD and DLP true-to-life CR improvement. Its all masked by "silly" light flags and "silly" irises that positively do nothing for real-world CR ratings other than their specs look great on paper while artifically dim on screen, till images are unwatchable light-power-wise. Now that, is "silly".

No, that's just a "silly" quote from me actually. I am just a "silly" guy who has no idea what he is talking about. The unit has not been reviewed yet actually. But, being "silly" as I am, as the PLV-70 got over the 900:1 specs on most hands-on reviews, I would find it "silly" that 4 years later on a next generation PJ with new panels and optical block, it would get less than the earlier model. But then again, one never knows. This is a "silly" industry on all fronts. We have advanced very little in the last 3 to 4 years in both LCD and DLP true-to-life CR improvement. Its all masked by "silly" light flags and "silly" irises that positively do nothing for real-world CR ratings other than their specs look great on paper while artifically dim on screen, till images are unwatchable light-power-wise. Now that, is "silly".

Do you really belive that irises don't do anything, what are your arguments for that.

The iris job is to raise the ANSI contrast on low IRE.

To perceive an image as believable (good depth and "reality-like") we need approx 30:1 in ANSI contrast, in an ordinary room we will NOT reach much higher then 100:1 on the high IRE (bright scenes)

With ordinary room i mean a room with perhaps light walls or with a white ceiling etc. how rooms usually look at peoples houses, the majority don't have a dedicated cinema room with black walls and ceiling. And it doesn't take much reflections from light color walls and ceiling to limit the ANSI to about 100:1.

However digital projectors have problems with ANSI on the low end of the IRE scale meaning they cant keep 30:1 when IRE drops and below 20IRE they have a really hard time.

To be able to keep 30:1 at 20IRE we need 1000:1 and at 10IRE we need 5000:1 so ONOFF is telling us about low-IRE ANSI contrast.

By reducing the amount of light to lower black level and also increasing the "gamma" of the video signal we can obtain a high ANSI on these hard scenes and this is MEASURABLE (read WSR reviews) and sometimes its a increase of 3-4 times the base-contrast.

This means that a PJ with 700:1 and an auto-iris is perceived as maybe 2000-3000:1 in dark scenes (low IRE)

The iris has it problems with Brightness compression, iris delay effect etc. but for the most time the illusion is great.

The high IRE ANSI readings will not be affected because the iris is fully open over approx 40IRE but then again we usually dont reach over 100:1 and digital projectors have no problems reaching over 100:1 when IRE get high so in an ordinary room "ALL" PJ that can reach over 100:1 will be percived as the same contrast-wise so it dosent matter if they can output 600:1 or 200:1 as max-ANSI they will be percived as the same in an ordinary room.

So thats what the iris does, is that silly, i don't think so, but if you do please present some good arguments.

Now over to lumens, the recommended ftL in an home-theatre is 12ftL and if you have a somewhat dark room almost ALL digital PJ today have enough lumens if you keep the screen around 100"

Now the Sanyo PLV-80 is NOT aimed at the ordinary home-theatre buyer but to someone that needs this extra lumens perhaps to fill a very large screen or to use with ambient light. But with that light output and todays technology you can NEVER i repeat NEVER have a good film-like image with high contrast and deep blacks. But again i don't think that is Sanyos purpose with this model, they want to sell to buyers with high lumens demand that at the same time don't want to buy a "presentation-PJ".

CRT projectors is still regarded as the refrence for image-quiality and they have the worst lumes output, but when i am watching a movie i perfer a high contrast deep image with a nice "color-gammut" and a good greyscale calibration, and a CRT gives you the best of those parameters and thus gives a very film-like picture. I can ensure you that 3000lumens is FAR to much for any home-theater when wathing movies, however its nice to have that extra lumens power when watching with ambient light.

And i dont say that the Sanyo PLV-80 is bad in anyway it has it place, i just reacted to your arguments

So instead of saying silly all the time, explain and present your ideas with arguments, not doing that is silly.

How is color uniformity of the Epson 550?

During black and white movies, can you notice any color shifts in the corners and/or left and right thirds of the image (assuming 16:9 image filling the panels).

Some recent vintage projectors have very noticible red/blue shifts in color uniformity from the left to the right of the image (not panel convergence), probably due to the layout of the LCD panels/optics.

During normal color movies it may not be very noticable, but during black and white movies, can be pronounced.

How is color uniformity of the Epson 550?

During black and white movies, can you notice any color shifts in the corners and/or left and right thirds of the image (assuming 16:9 image filling the panels).

Some recent vintage projectors have very noticible red/blue shifts in color uniformity from the left to the right of the image, probably due to the layout of the LCD panels/optics.

During normal color movies it may not be very noticable, but during black and white movies, can be pronounced.

I haven't watched any B&W movies on it, but there is a bit of an LCD alignment problem with mine that even shows during certain color things. See my next post.

-A.P. Etc

My 550 just recently seems to have devloped some sort of on-and-off alignment problem. The right side always seem to have the reds ever so slightly out of place compared to the left, but never so much that it was really an issue. I put an image of a black and white dithered pattern up and took photos of it when it is behaving "normally". See the top row of the attached image for a view of the left, whole thing and right.

http://www.hardchat.net/epson/projtest01252005.jpg
Linked because the image is 1800x800.

However, sometimes it suddenly changes to where the alignment is WAY off, causing a largely visible gradient. The red on the left drifts a little off, the middle seems to be OK and the right is way off. See the bottom row in the attached picture to see what this looks like. I think the "greenness" of the left is slightly exagerated due to the auto-white balance on my camera, but hopefully the closeup shows that the alignment seems to have drifted a bit.

I haven't quite placed a pattern on when it changes (as far as how long it's been on, brightness mode, etc), but sometimes it changes very sudden, almost flickering back and forth a few times before stopping on one or the other. At the farthest right edge, it almost looks like the red is a full column out of place compared to the other colors.

Has anyone seen this before or have any comments on it? I'm about to call Epson re: warranty work, but thought I'd check here first. Any recommendations are greatly appreciated!

-A.P. Etc

My 550 just recently seems to have devloped some sort of on-and-off alignment problem. The right side always seem to have the reds ever so slightly out of place compared to the left, but never so much that it was really an issue. I put an image of a black and white dithered pattern up and took photos of it when it is behaving "normally". See the top row of the attached image for a view of the left, whole thing and right.

http://www.hardchat.net/epson/projtest01252005.jpg
Linked because the image is 1800x800.

-A.P. Etc

Looks like a convergence issue- either the LCD panel alignment and/or the prisms used to combine the R-G-B panel images, though the fact that it changes is curious. If it is an optical hardware mis-alignment, it shouldn't move around like that, unless it's heat related (i.e. thermal expansion/contraction).


Looks like a service call is in order.

I had this same problem, it was also effectting focus, I called Epson and got a new unit.....
48hrs turnaround and the new unit is great !

Just wanted to let you know that with 2.35:1 DVD, with HDMI input only two options are available . Normal and Through and there is no difference when toggled in between. It does not fill whole 16:9 screen.

Do you know is there any way you can fill up such DVDs to 16:9 screen when HDMI input is used?

Thanks


I actually don't have any 2.35:1 DVDs. Much of what I have is letterboxed or some level of widescreen, but nothing is actually 2.35:1, so I was hoping for some feasible alternative of a test I could do.

-A.P. Etc

As happy as I am with my Epson 520 (Euro-Version) I gotta report the same heavy shading problem :eek: . Didn't notice any moving aroung yet but I swear it wasn't there before (250 hours now). I'd hate to give my unit to service. Is there possibly any calibration workaround?

Here's a pic that is only slightly exaggerated by the camera:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3009/shading2jl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wow. That is dramatic. What was the input source for (what I assume) is a white screen?

You must return it.

I go through the same thing in my head with defective products: can I live with? Maybe I can minimize it?, etc.

It's always best to get it returned asap.

Thanks for your sympathy :(

It's a test DVD's all white image upscaled to 720 by an HDMI-Player. Problem is, it really does not just get noticed with black and white movies. Yesterday I watched a film about birds. In one scene, when they were far away, tiny-dots-like, I thought: "Oh, flamingos" due to their pink hue. When the narrator introduced them as White Pelicans, I knew I was f*cked... :eek:

The claimed 3000:1 CR on the Epson 550 tops at about over 2000:1. And that's after the iris is closed and you have very low light output. With the iris fully opened, I doubt you'll even get real-world 1000:1 CR. On the other hand the Sanyo PLV-80 gets 1000:1 and full 3000 lumens. Bottom line, at the 550's maximum light output you'll have less CR than the PLV-80 has across the board. And by the way, Sanyo is among the very few manufacturers that does not lie about their specs unlike the bull and hyped numbers everyone throws at the consumer's faces. 3000 lumens on a Sanyo PJ means 3000 lumens and 1000:1 CR means just that. As far as being able to do a hands-on comparison of image quality on a PLV-80 to other projectors, I saw it at Infocomm last year and it looked stunning. Next to it was the Canon Realis (which is also rated at the same 1000:1 contrast) and the image quality and depth of the PLV-80 was stunningly better than the Realis. This only comes to the argument, that CR values on paper can mean very little. Of course the PLV-80 costs more than the Epson 550 (though ironically you can now find it at street prices,lens included, for just over what the Epson 800 retails for) but I'd say is a much, much better unit than both the 550 and the 800 are, in just about every way.

hahahaha...do you work for Sanyo?

I have had 2 Sanyo PJs before and they didn't come close to their stated CR while my Epson 500 is prolly right there at it's stated spec. Sanyo is one of the worst when it comes to ********ting specs.

BTW, have you even seen the 550 or 800?

BTW, have you even seen the 550 or 800?

I'm not liebkid nor have I seen the 550 or 800, but was wondering if you can give us your impressions of the 550? How does it compare to say, the Mits HC3000?

As a long-time lurker, (although a previously active member on a similar but now “dead” forum) I extend my thanks to the insights presented on this thread. I had not planned on writing a reaction piece, but realized that my experience might equally help somebody who is going through a similar laborious debating period before “pulling the trigger.” I tried to hit on issues that other posters (and reviewers elsewhere) had missed or just touched upon so hopefully this can offer something of value.

I just received my 550 last week (after the untimely death of my Sharpvision PGM25X three months after the warranty expired) and have yet to do any tweaking.

I have it setup using the component input rather than the HDMI as my primary HD source is HR10-250 DirecTV Tivo (as I use this on both my projector and my television though a splitter and the HDMI overrides the component outputs). I am projecting the picture onto a 133” (in 16:9 format) Elite Home Series electric screen with a matte white, 1.0 gain surface. My seating ranges from about 9 ft at the very front to 18 ft. in the “sweet” spot. (Just as an FYI, I use a Peerless rear mount and the Universal Adaptor Plate PAP-UNV, although unlisted at this point, works perfectly with the new unit).

The viewing area is in a non-dedicated HT with good but not perfect ambient light control. At night I can go to almost complete darkness but during the day, while I have full blackout capability in the main areas, the light bleed from adjacent rooms makes the need for a brighter picture a necessity. I also desired a projector that would perform well for activities that require some degree of ambient light such as “slide show” and video presentations (as I teach and have grad students demonstrating their work) and sporting events (with the Super Bowl and different people coming and going between commercials & the game as well as food, drinks, etc., an ample amount of light is paramount.).

My out-of-the box reaction has been excellent in most every respect. As indicated elsewhere, this unit gives out a LOT of light. As stated above, my primary concern that led me to purchase the 550 was the issues surrounding limited light of competing products. After 1900 lumens on my Sharp, I was unenthusiastic about making a major step backward in the brightness category. In the 550s “Dynamic” setting, it produces almost too much light and is easily viewable with all the room lights on. The standard “Living Room” setting gives a solid picture with lights on and will work brilliantly for those light-necessity applications. In the “Theater Black” modes, the contrast is excellent and the picture is a joy to watch. I have yet to run the AVIA optimizer but did spend about 10 minutes with the THX screens making minimal adjustments. Even with that little effort, the picture is impressive at all “Color Mode” light levels.

My one major concern about the switch back to LCD from DLP (as I personally have no rainbow issues) was the screen-door concern, especially at the closest seating. Granted, my previous LCD experience from the mid-90s was a massive Sharp XV-H37 (with a pixilated image even from across the room that mirrored that of a waffle iron) but the 550s structure certainly rivals that of my previous DLP. While I rarely get close to the screen, even sitting on the floor a few feet in front of the picture is impressive (a warning, however: playing Doom 3 close up with this remarkable a picture and contrast can, however, be a extremely disturbing experience. . .another good reason for a little ambient light.).

While HD is truly striking, DVDs look remarkable as well. While I am still not convinced that the players I use give neither the sharpest image nor the deepest black (I run three Sony DVP-CX985V players and will likely not upgrade until the format war settles and the generation changer emerges.) the picture was still excellent and the ability to shift light levels enables the projector to compensate for my players’ shortcomings beautifully. Unlike the Sharp PGM25X, that displayed the images in 480P, the 550 converts the image up to 575P. The one “funky” element here is the Auto selection on the unit that decides the best aspect mode for the presentation. While this may in fact turn out to be a blessing, at this point I find the experience a bit awkward as some elements from the players (list of DVDs, many menus, some bonus material) shift back and forth between sizes depending on the material projected. I am used to the “old” way that remained constant (if not stretched out) so this is a new experience for me. I will wait to see how it handles older DVDs that are widescreen formatted, but rather than converting directly to the 16:9 (or whatever) end up with the 4:3 and black bars (Simple enough to switch the aspect ratio manually when necessary.). Finally, the “Through” and “Squeeze Through” settings are a compelling feature as it resizes the delivered signal to their native resolution resulting in a smaller picture, but higher resolution direct image.

As for the SD images (as inquired about in another post), this is by no means a problem. The issue, as with any HD display, stems from the source. As I found with my HD television, shifting down from a HD broadcast to a SD or even ED can be visually painful. As silly as it may seem, my wife likes to go out of the room between the switch so as to miss the dramatic difference between the two. With the 550, this was equally true, but overall the unit does an adequate to good job of displaying SD images. In some respects I might contend it does even a better job than my Samsung DLP television, which is telling considering the image is three times larger and the Samsung is designed to display SD broadcasts. Granted, much of this does depend on the SD broadcast itself, but while the contrast is less dramatic, the image is less defined, and the colors and less pronounced, the image still resulted in a “Oh Wow!” response from a friend whose first exposure to the 550 was the SD image (this understandably changed when shifting to a HD signal, but we have to crawl before we can run). Final reaction; the 550 certainly provides a good picture for SD big-screen viewing (non-HD football game, home videos, presentations, etc) as necessary. At the same time, barring those exceptions, if it is not at least 480P, I’m not really interested in spending bulb time to watch it on the big screen.

Finally, the issue of fan noise. Somebody indicated that when ceiling mounted, the unit shifted to high-fan mode automatically. I was concerned about this factor before my purchase, but then again, after the wind-tunnel din of my late Sharp, I figured it was less of an issue for me than some. During installation, however, I did not find the positioning to change the fan noise one way or the other. I’m not sure if this was an internal switch that did not flip in my unit, but either way it seems to have the same speeds up or down. On the brightest modes (Dynamic, Living Room), the unit does indeed produce quite a bit of noise. Even at full speed, however, this is still significantly less sound than my M25X. And for bright viewing (football, the Olympics, etc.) situations, who cares? On the Theater modes, however, it is whisper quiet. Not silent, but hardly noticeable even in the quietest of scenes. My unit is directly above my primary seating area so this is a great additional feature that I will enjoy by contrast.

Once I have some time to break the unit in and calibrate the picture, if anybody is interested, I will give some further reactions and insights.

Hope my 2 cents is worth something to the discussion!

While I am still not convinced that the players I use give neither the sharpest image nor the deepest black (I run three Sony DVP-CX985V players and will likely not upgrade until the format war settles and the generation changer emerges.) the picture was still excellent and the ability to shift light levels enables the projector to compensate for my players’ shortcomings beautifully.

Excellent impressions skellys1031, thank you. I was thinking of getting a 550, but now I'm leaning towards the Optoma H78.

I notice you have the Sony DVP-CX985V. I just bought the 995V last week. While I don't own a pj yet, I'm wondering about the pq of these two changers. Tell me.... in your opinion do you think the pq of your dvds would improve if you were to run your 985V to an external scaler the DVO iScan HD? Or would you say the 985V is good enough on its own? My 995V is still in the box and I was considering returning it in favor of a stand alone player with better PQ....what do you think?

"I was thinking of getting a 550, but now I'm leaning towards the Optoma H78. "

Which of his scathing remarks influenced you? :)

Excellent and informative post, thanks skellys.

"I notice you have the Sony DVP-CX985V. I just bought the 995V last week. While I don't own a pj yet, I'm wondering about the pq of these two changers. Tell me.... in your opinion do you think the pq of your dvds would improve if you were to run your 985V to an external scaler the DVO iScan HD? Or would you say the 985V is good enough on its own? My 995V is still in the box and I was considering returning it in favor of a stand alone player with better PQ....what do you think? "


That is a great question and one that I have actually pondered a bit in the past.

From a 480P baseline, I have been very impressed with the 985 (as I was with the 875P before). Like I indicated, the contrast and the sharpness are not as impressive as I’ve seen on other units, but the 400 disc capacity was a major advantage over the really nominal differences in picture. (As an example, the introduction to LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring was just slightly less crisp and inky black on the title sequence—which was easy to parallel because it was stationary—but once the film starts, the differences are somewhat negligible.)

Granted, this was all fine and dandy when the XGA resolution was the benchmark. With the consideration of native 720P in the mix with the 550, this changes things. When I purchased my Samsung TV, I considered the DVDO iScan but 1K seemed like a huge investment in what could well be a limited improvement to what I saw as a generally excellent picture to begin with. I am now again faced with the renewed question as to the virtue of the investment for my pj.

I seriously considered purchasing at least one 995V to explore the difference, but from the few reactions I’ve seen suggest that the upscaling does not provide that dynamic a difference above the 985. Granted, I have not investigated the new unit this on this site which might push me to make the jump.

In general, I am mostly favorable of the 985s. On the “down” side, the navigation is slow, the organization software is clumsy, and the units have been know to lose their memory (although I have yet to see this personally, unlike the 875P and especially the 860 that would actually move discs from one slot to another!). On the up side, the picture is very, very good and most important—they hold 400 DVDs. Aside from being able to completely remove the cases from sight (blasphemy to many, I know), protect the discs from fingerprints, dust, scratches, grubby little hands (I have kids), with the touch of a button I can access any film in my collection, fire the pj, drop the screen, dim the lights, and enjoy. While one friend once said “you have to have a big a$$ to need a system like this” to me, this is pseudo-nirvana. Thankfully I ride my bike to work every day!

Like the SD-HD jump, it may well be a case of “ignorance is bliss” in not seeing the difference between the 480P (or 575P for the 550) and the upscaled format. Either way, until one (or both) of the new formats take hold, we are still limited to the native content on the existing DVD format.

I look forward to hearing what you decide to do.

That is a great question and one that I have actually pondered a bit in the past.....<snip>

Thanks or reply... It's definitely a tough choice wether to get the iscan or not, because $1999+ is nothing to sneeze at especially for simply upscaler. As an alternative I was thinking of saving for a couple more months and getting a tricked out HTPC from Cellar Cinemas for $5000. Comes with FOUR Terabytes of space, which should be more than enough to hold at least 500-600 dvds if not more. Not to mention it'll be able to scale just like the iscan does, as well as getting a brand new PC with the latest graphics card(I'm a HEAVY gamer so this helps).

We'll see what happends :)



Which of his scathing remarks influenced you? :)

Excellent and informative post, thanks skellys.


Actually it wasn't his remarks, they came off like he was very impressed with the unit. It's just that after reading some reviews of the H78, I think I can stretch my budget a couple more grand to justify what looks like a steal of a pj(isn't the H78 bascially identical to the H79?)

Ah. But I'm curious, what do you think will be better on the H78? Will you be able to see either/both before buying?

I have been interested in this projector for some time, however, I understand that their technology will be updated shortly by the revolutionary HTPS inorganic layer which will greatly improve contrast as well as other benefits. From reading around, it seems as if the technology will be used in many or most current production models sometime in 2006. I am holding off the purchase until I know more about this feature. Does anyone have information when and if it will be available in the Cinema 550? From the JapanCorp web site:

"Tokyo, May 24, 2005 (JCN) - Seiko Epson (TSE: 6724) announced on May 24 that it has developed a new high temperature polysilicon (HTPS) TFT panel technology incorporating an inorganic alignment layer for use in 3LCD projectors.

Named "Crystal Clear Fine (C2 Fine)", the latest technology achieves vastly improved contrast, four to five times higher than conventional technologies, superb alignment, and enhanced reproduction of dark colors (or jet black).

The company will begin producing panels using the technology in 2006."

Thanks.

"I have been interested in this projector for some time, however, I understand that their technology will be updated shortly "

Not so shortly; we'll be lucky to see them at CEDIA in the fall.

Search for posts by frank456 (I think) for details.

The closest thing that's been seen so far is an RPTV by pson at CES.

Noise update: I ceiling-mounted the 550 this weekend and I can't tell the difference in noise level. If there is one, it's really subtle. We have one PC, one Mac and an Xbox in the room and the Epson is quieter than all of them. If the program your watching has any sound at all, it easily covers up the Epson fan noise.

(This only applies to the Theater modes - you can hear the fan in the brighter modes, although it's still not what I would call loud or distracting.)

Thanks jsd. With the other posting on the increased noise, I wondered if my unit had an anomaly.

Well, I have moved in to my new house and my Theater is mostly complete so I thought I would post another short review.

the pertinent details:

my room is in the basement, the walls are plum chutney (dark brownish purple), the carpet is a mixture of the plum chutney and some other muted colors, and the ceiling is a black drop ceiling.

The projector is custom mounted right side up on a black shelf suspended near the ceiling which is approximately 8 feet high. The screen is a 106 inch Carada Criterion Collection with CCW material. Viewing distance at primary seating position (first row) is about 11 feet from the screen.

I am using a Sony NS70 dvd player through custom constructed component cables or a monoprice 25 foot hdmi cable for hdmi viewing. The dvd player is outputting hdmi at 720p.

I also use a motorola 6208 high def DVR through component cables, switched through a Denon AVR-2805.

I have not yet done video calibration. Just using Theater Black 2 as it came out of the box so far.

My opinions:

Brightness: in my room, even with the purportedly "low gain" Carada CCW material this projector is bright--even on theater black 2. It looks too bright in there on any of the "bright" modes, even with the lights on. (It is amazing how dark walls, carpet and a flat black ceiling darken even a lit room)

Noise: My primary seating position is directly under the projector and I can't hear it unless the room is totally silent. It is really not noticeable at all while watching a movie.

Contrast: My last projector was a Panasonic 300 and the contrast did not bother me on that one--so keeping that in mind, this projector's contrast looks stunning to me. The blacks look much closer to jet black than the really dark grey I was accustomed to.

Color: I have found no detectable color shifts in my sample. I have only about 10 hours on the projector so far but the colors look fabulous to me--HDTV really pops especially.

SDE: at 11 feet from the screen I can't see any screen door effect on a 106 inch screen.

Overall I am really really pleased with my purchase of this projector. Considering my local dealer's price is very competitive with the internet pricing of the other 2 similar projectors, and the excellent 2 year warranty with overnight service, I can't imagine being happier with any other projector in this price range.

Any questions feel free to PM me. :D

MrBreeze,

Thanks for the comments on the projector. You (and others) are making my decision to get the Epson much easier. I was originally looking at the Benq PE7700 DLP projector, but because of the recent bulb issues, I'm not planning to get that projector. I was originally sold on DLP because the SDE was less pronounced. However with your review and seeing it in person, I believe this will not be am issue with LCD on the Epson! Noise was another concern -- the BenQ was nearly silent (and I liked that since the projector will be directly above the seating area). From what I've read, as long as you are in Theater Mode (which I plan to be since this my room is 100% light controlled), the noise level is very low (as you described).

Thanks again for the comments!

I think the 550 comes with a 3 year warranty.

The 550 has a two year warranty. For that however, it has a replacement program that gets you a new unit in a day or so.

MrBreeze,

Thanks for the comments on the projector. You (and others) are making my decision to get the Epson much easier. I was originally looking at the Benq PE7700 DLP projector, but because of the recent bulb issues, I'm not planning to get that projector. I was originally sold on DLP because the SDE was less pronounced. However with your review and seeing it in person, I believe this will not be am issue with LCD on the Epson! Noise was another concern -- the BenQ was nearly silent (and I liked that since the projector will be directly above the seating area). From what I've read, as long as you are in Theater Mode (which I plan to be since this my room is 100% light controlled), the noise level is very low (as you described).

Thanks again for the comments!

I am very glad to be of some help.

FYI, I remeasured and my seating position is actually just barely 10.5 feet from the screen. Granted my 40 year old eyes are probably not quite 20/20 any more, but I can't see SDE even when I try at that distance.

I am really happy with this projector. :D

How about the squeeze we need for CH - cinemascope? Previous posts stated that for HDMI at least, the strecth needed was not provided. Still have hope for analog/component as I'll be running both signals to the PJ.

Using HDMI, you may be able to use cinemascope or widescreen through your DVD player. When I used HDMI, only option available for aspect mode was "Normal" and "Through" which was not feeling up my whole screen. But when I changed DVD player to Widescreen, "Boooomm..!..!!" It feeled up whole screen.

I'm having a squeeze-related problem... When I set my Oppo DVD player to 720p or 1080i, I can only seem to watch a DVD in wide format on the Epson via HDMI. This is fine for newer (1.85 & 2.35) films but looks terrible for old 4:3 movies (I have a lot of old B&W). So I've been having to watch those DVDs in 480... Is there a solution to this?

Thanks,
Scott

I have TW520 which is equal to Cinema 550 i guess;
I need to know if you people can get better results from the HDMI than the component??I just can't get sharp video with component ( Samsung HD850 ).
Is there any configuration tool that i can use to get the best possible picture out of this PJ.

On mine, I get an essentially identical excellent image from both component and HDMI.

Can you get a sharp clear picture from any other source than your Samsung DVD? Barring that, does your Samsung send a sharp picture to another HD display? This might narrow the problem down to your PJ, your DVD, or your cables (which shouldn’t really make a difference as either the digital signal is coming through or not).

skellys1031 Thanks for your quick reply;
I have no way to test that since this is my first HD experiment. I also have old LG DVD player that i get 480p images but it is also not sharp(As i wanted to be).
Or maybe i want to much from a projector in this price range :(
I have one more question though. When you turn the AUTO IRIS on picture gets blurry and sometimes gets sharp on some scenes is it Normal??
By the way this is really the first time i buy ''electronic toy'' in my country cheaper (I mean much cheaper) than US :)

skellys1031

I have one more question though. When you turn the AUTO IRIS on picture gets blurry and sometimes gets sharp on some scenes is it Normal??


it's just a guess, but the laws of physics dictate that as your iris opens, your depth-of-field gets smaller... basically if you're not quite in focus on the screen, as the iris widens this will become more apparent, as it tightens it will become less so. try waiting for it to get blurry and attempt a critical focus. again, just a guess.

MrBreeze

The projector is custom mounted right side up on a black shelf suspended near the ceiling which is approximately 8 feet high.

How far down from the ceiling is the projector on the shelf? I have downloaded the PJ owners manual and was under the impression if you put the PJ near the ceiling you had to mount it inverted. Also how far is the your screen from the ceiling? I would really like to mount mine (when I finally get done with my HT and purchase the darn thing) on a custom shelf but was bummed when I thought that would have to mount it inverted. Could you please shed some light (no pun intended :rolleyes: ) on this for me

Thanx

Sorry EDITED BELOW;;

Still using the good old COMPOSITE but pretty much satisfied what i get with it so far.
I think with 'ALL DIGITAL" HDMI i'll get better results but i am wondering if the cable quality matters?? since it is first all digital cable should i really go with expensive one or can i use the one comes with the DVD player?
Does anybody know if the TW520(Cinema 550) has D5 panels like the TW600(cinema pro 800) or only D4 :( in it ? This info is nowhere to find.

Still using the good old COMPOSITE but pretty much satisfied what i get with it so far.
I think with 'ALL DIGITAL" HDMI i'll get better results but i am wondering if the cable quality matters?? since it is first all digital cable should i really go with expensive one or can i use the one comes with the DVD player?
Does anybody know if the TW520(Cinema 550) has D5 panels like the TW600(cinema pro 800) or only D4 :( in it ? This info is nowhere to find.
Yes it uses D5 panels, and a lower wattage bulb. 135w vs 160w. 1400 lumens vs 1600 lumens. There might be some other differences too.

MrBreeze



How far down from the ceiling is the projector on the shelf? I have downloaded the PJ owners manual and was under the impression if you put the PJ near the ceiling you had to mount it inverted. Also how far is the your screen from the ceiling? I would really like to mount mine (when I finally get done with my HT and purchase the darn thing) on a custom shelf but was bummed when I thought that would have to mount it inverted. Could you please shed some light (no pun intended :rolleyes: ) on this for me

Thanx


The top of the projector is about 4 inches below the drop ceiling so I guess the shelf hangs down about 8 inches. The screen is mounted on the wall so that the top of the screen is slightly below the lens. the vertical lens shift on this projector is great.

If it wasn't such a pain to upload pictures I would dig up the digital camera and shoot a few. I will eventually take some pictures of my theater but would like to wait until I have my riser constructed and in place (hopefully this weekend). The screen is a Carada Criterion edition so it has the wide frame. The top of the frame is just a few inches from the ceiling. It is actually a few inches higher than I would prefer but I wasn't here when my installation guys were hanging it and it's not worth the trouble for me to lower it 2 or 3 inches (when I have so many other things yet to do in my new house).

How far down from the ceiling is the projector on the shelf? I have downloaded the PJ owners manual and was under the impression if you put the PJ near the ceiling you had to mount it inverted. Also how far is the your screen from the ceiling? I would really like to mount mine (when I finally get done with my HT and purchase the darn thing) on a custom shelf but was bummed when I thought that would have to mount it inverted. Could you please shed some light (no pun intended :rolleyes: ) on this for me


You only have to mount it inverted if you want to use a projector ceiling mount that screws into the mounting holes (which are on the underside of the unit, of course). If you're just sitting it on a shelf you can have it upright.

You only have to mount it inverted if you want to use a projector ceiling mount that screws into the mounting holes (which are on the underside of the unit, of course). If you're just sitting it on a shelf you can have it upright.

That is great news.....how did I miss that looking through the downloaded owners manual? :confused:

I am planning on building a custom ceiling mounted box to "hide" the projector and the associated wiring but allowing room and cutouts for cooling of course. So this makes me very happy :)

I planning on about a 15 or 16 foot throw and a 96 or 108" screen. For you guys that own this projector is this a realistic screen size and throw distance? My soon to be built HT is in the basement and is roughly 13.5x20 with seating at about 10-11 and then a second set of seats (or bar type seating with tall stools) at about 16-18 with 7.1 sound and the back wall will have all the equipment/components. Sound realistic or am I dreaming?

Also I have been reading the Panny AE900 thread and narrowed my FP choices to the Panny and the Epson anybody have experiece with both? Sorry a little off the thread so please forgive. Just need info. ;)

Update on my warranty replacement:

Once the problem was explained and it became apparent that it was happening on multiple inputs as well as the menu (proving the projector itself is experiencing the issue).

The replacement was shipped and arrived in 2 business days (excellent!). However, it appears to have a different problem that is even worse. When trying to focus it, things still looked out of focus even when I had the focus set so that I could seen SDE. Upon closer inspectection, there is ghosting in the image. About 1-2 pixels to the bottom left of everything, it can be seen again. For example, white on black text appears to have a grey "drop shadow". When viewing from a distance, it causes it to look slightly out of focus or just a little blurry for HD stuff or computer images. This even occurs in the menus, so it does not look like an input-specific issue.

What this means is that I now have to call Epson and likely sent back the replacement and get another replacement while keeping my original. While the color problem it had was kinda annoying, it was only intermittent and looked great when it wasn't happening.

Anyone else with a similar experience?

-A.P. Etc

Finally got my 550 installed last weekend. Tonight is the second night I watched something on it and I have the dreaded pink on the right issue. Very similiar to neomagic's pic, but my pink area is more towards the middle.

Otherwise, the unit is very easy to setup. It only took me 5 minutes or so to get a perfect image geometry. Picture looked a little soft, but my panel alignment issue could be the cause of that (HD dish/cable over hdmi).

Going to call Epson support tomorrow.

New PJ on the way. They said 2-3 days from Indianapolis.

Nice english speaking reps. They said that this was the first they have heard of the problem, well maybe that rep... But hey, the warranty is one of the reasons I bought the unit- I didn't want any hassles.

Hi Everybody this is my first post and to be my first projector. I have done alot of reading and research and I narrowed down my projector to the 550 or 800. I'm wondering if the 800 is worth the extra money. The only difference I can tell is the higher contrast and lumens (aside from warranty and accessories). I viewed the 550 but not 800. So I am unable to compare before I purchase.
Has anyone here seen both?
Is image quality better on the 800?
Is it worth going to the 800 will I notice an improvement over the 550?


Thanks in advance

Where did everyone go?

Well, I still don't have my replacment PJ. Got a shipment from Epson - but it was somebody else's PJ and the wrong PJ at that. So after 10 minutes talking to tech services and then another 15 minutes on hold on a non-toll free number to warranty services and another 10 minutes trying to explain that the shipping label and invoice don't match - they are shipping out another PJ, but it's going to take a week now for some reason.

Epson customer service quality just went down a couple of notches on this one - they are not impressing me. Good customer service would have shipped me a new pj overnight.

My first TW520 one day suddenly decided to exhibit the same problem as others have experienced whereby it went red on the left and blue on the right - much like the image earlier in the thread of a white DVD test screen.

I'd had it for just two weeks. Obviously sent it right back and got a new one the next day. New unit has the same problem, but sooooo faint I never would have noticed it if it hadn't happened to my first unit.

Whilst these PJs are fantastic units, I can't help but worry that I'm going to be claiming a new unit on my warranty every few months because of this issue - it must be a design flaw.

Whilst customer service & warranty is good, I'd much rather have a PJ I can rely on in the first place!

well, you're the second person to report a problem with their replacment 550 and that doesn't bode well for reliability side of things.

guys, posted this in the DVD area and haven't gotten a single response. So I'll ask it here and see what happens. What DVD players are you guys running with your projector? I'm looking at the Panny S97 or the OPPO player. Seems both have some macroblocking issues and both are reported to be fine players.

What do you guys think? What are you using and how's it working?

Thanks

I use an HTPC with ZoomPlayer and ffdshow/dscaler with great results.

I use an HTPC with ZoomPlayer and ffdshow/dscaler with great results.
nightfly85,

What video card and sound card are you using on your HTPC? I've got everything but the video card.

Currently running a Ati 9600 fan-less. Going to the onboard video on the MSI matx board (Nvidia 6150) soon.

If I were to buy a new vid card now, I'd get the XFX Nvidia 6600 fan-less.

Currently running a Ati 9600 fan-less. Going to the onboard video on the MSI matx board (Nvidia 6150) soon.

If I were to buy a new vid card now, I'd get the XFX Nvidia 6600 fan-less.
Thanks. I'll give it a look.

guys, posted this in the DVD area and haven't gotten a single response. So I'll ask it here and see what happens. What DVD players are you guys running with your projector? I'm looking at the Panny S97 or the OPPO player. Seems both have some macroblocking issues and both are reported to be fine players.

What do you guys think? What are you using and how's it working?

Thanks


I am using the Sony DVP-NS70h via HDMI with my 550. I did not want to spend much money now in anticipation of purchasing a high definition dvd player in the next year or so when I get a good idea which format I would prefer.

I am very pleased with the results. Also, I am one of the many, I'm sure, who have had no problems with their new Epson 550 whatsoever.