What would be the difference if one bought a Z4 directly from Japan and the unit had english on the unit buttons, on the screen menus, and USA power cord. The only thing it would come with a Japanese owners manual which one could print off-line the english version. What else may be different from this model vs the same model sold in the US in November?

Thanks

Troy

What would be the difference if one bought a Z4 directly from Japan and the unit had english on the unit buttons, on the screen menus, and USA power cord. The only thing it would come with a Japanese owners manual which one could print off-line the english version. What else may be different from this model vs the same model sold in the US in November?

Thanks

Troy

The firmware could be different. Obviously the warranty.

Why? Are you trying to save 268 dollars off the lowest currently available pre-order price? :D

Good point. I plan to get one but was curious what the differences would be. I'm getting my Carada screen next week so hopefully this projector will be available within 2 weeks. How has Sanyo been in the past with the Z2 & Z3 with keeping release dates accurate?

I also wanted to ask how often does Sanyo upgrade their projectors. What I mean is when did the Z3 come out compared to the new Z4. What is a model life cycle?

I saw those also for sale, the catch is that the On screen displays are in Japanese, so you'd have to translate using the english manual (however you only really need to set it up once right?) However you save about 400 bux (on the pan ae900 at least) but it would be a lot harder to re sell down the road also, due to the fact its in japanese

I'm not positive with the z4, but with the z3, you could change the OSD to English on the Japanese models. I think I read earlier that you can with the z4, too, not sure. Not so with the Panny 700, nor, apparently, with the 900. Ironically, if you can get an "other-Asian" version of the 900 (e.g. Chinese), not the Japanese version, apparently you CAN change the OSD to English (per CLK and others at apr. posts 775-795 in the Panny thread, if I remember correctly. Just a day or so ago). FWIW.

If the manufacturers would just price these rationally and relatively for all markets, we all would win (the Hitachis especially come to mind for those of us in North America, versus the European's sweet deals on the 100 and 200...but the Europeans almost always lose these battles, actually. It's a shame anyone haas to fight such, in a "global economy."

Good point. I plan to get one but was curious what the differences would be. I'm getting my Carada screen next week so hopefully this projector will be available within 2 weeks. How has Sanyo been in the past with the Z2 & Z3 with keeping release dates accurate?

I also wanted to ask how often does Sanyo upgrade their projectors. What I mean is when did the Z3 come out compared to the new Z4. What is a model life cycle?

they seem to release their new model around october each year.
same goes for panasonic.

Whats the general stats on vertical banding so far from what can be gathered by people in this thread?

Are the Z4 units better on averaga than the previous Z2 and Z3 units? The same? Worse?

:)

definitely not worse.
definitely much better than on the Z2 in my own experience (i have the Z4 and my old Z2)

also better than on the Z3 as from what i heard and read. but i haven't seen them side by side myself yet.

<<they seem to release their new model around october each year.
same goes for panasonic.>>

And, troytn, you can hang out here on the edge of your seat with us from mid-June through the CEDIA show in early September every year, when the new annual models are displayed for the first time, speculating endlesly about the myriad possible specs and features, detriments and benefits, pricepoints and compromises...sight unseen, of course!

..oh, well. Beats surfing ho-porn :D

Can't PS2 do 480p ? The problem seems to be 480i, rather than 480p.

Only the PS2s sold in the last year or so can do 480p, and I believe that's when playing DVD movies only, not games.
Most PS2s only do 480i.

Troytn -- Don't forget that you also have to pay duty on the Z4 before you can get it out of customs. I doubt that you'ld save much at all (and could actually pay more).

No you don't. There are no duties on imported projectors because they are computer display devices without a tuner.

Only the PS2s sold in the last year or so can do 480p, and I believe that's when playing DVD movies only, not games.
Most PS2s only do 480i.

Anyway the next gen consoles can both do 720p ....

Also, I guess an old iScan can be had cheaply.

Forgive me if this has been ask, but for those who have the Z4, will the same projector ceiling mount used for the Z2/Z3 work with the Z4?

I believe the answer was yes.

Yes, I pre order Z4 from Visualapex and they have the Ceiling mount for the Z3 listed as a Z4 accessorie.

so, i bought the optoma h78dc3 a few days ago and just got it set up recently. i love everything about the picture quality...except...i'm seeing those darned rainbows. :( it's not terrible, but i definitely notice them and it does distract me occasionally. perhaps that's because i'm thinking about it...perhaps not.

anyway, what does this have to do with the z4, you ask? well, i'm thinking perhaps i should switch to an lcd unit to deal with the rainbow effect issue, and the z4 received a really nice review at projectorcentral. my understanding is that most people think the overall picture quality of the h78dc3 is better than the lcd projectors, but i'm hoping to get some thoughts on how much of a difference there is and whether it's worth switching.

(the other lcd projector that also seems viable is the panasonic ae900, so i'll probably ask the folks in that thread also. and by the way, are there any other reviews comparing ae900 to z4 besides what's on projectorcentral? i've been working my way through these two threads, but they're awfully long...

the sony hs60 looks intriguing, but i really don't want to wait until early next year when it's scheduled to come out).

by the way, cost isn't an issue in terms of switching...anything under about $7k-ish is fine.

thanks,
tu

The Peterr Putnam HDTVExpert review confirms that the Z4 also doesnt handle 480i signals very well at all.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding the following, but didn't Cine4Home's review say it does it well?... from Cine4Home's translated review in the section "Video Material"

"If one uses the projector as television, then mainly pictorial material was supplied with to him, that with conventional television cameras was taken up (sport, shows etc..) . Here it concerns so-called video material, with which each half-image represents its own snapshot. A half-image contains however only half at picture information, which is necessary for a progressive representation. The projector therefore must the missing character rows "be calculated". The De-Interlacing electronics of the PLV-Z4 works here exemplary. After the "Motion adaptive ones" procedures will be together-twisted motionless picture elements from two following each other half-images, projected during moved picture elements by interpolation on the double dissolution of vertical. The resulting picture shows liquid courses of motion, which are to a very large extent free from disturbing edge flares. This quality makes the Z4 without reservation television suited.

I believe that Cine4Home was referring to PAL and not NTSC (since they use PAL in Germany). I have read elsewhere as well that the Z4 does a good job with an interlaced PAL signal.

I was refering to this part...

While you can get excellent color out of this projector, you may find a video scaler handy for processing composite and standard-definition interlaced video. A quick check of the Zone Plate test pattern showed that some sort of notch filter was being used for color decoding — almost no detail was seen at 300 and 400 lines, and dot crawl and color moiré were in abundance.

With a 480i component signal, I also spotted interlaced scan line artifacts with video material and film content transferred to video.


He says twice that you need to get an external scaler for Interlaced feeds



Correct me if I'm misunderstanding the following, but didn't Cine4Home's review say it does it well?... from Cine4Home's translated review in the section "Video Material"

"If one uses the projector as television, then mainly pictorial material was supplied with to him, that with conventional television cameras was taken up (sport, shows etc..) . Here it concerns so-called video material, with which each half-image represents its own snapshot. A half-image contains however only half at picture information, which is necessary for a progressive representation. The projector therefore must the missing character rows "be calculated". The De-Interlacing electronics of the PLV-Z4 works here exemplary. After the "Motion adaptive ones" procedures will be together-twisted motionless picture elements from two following each other half-images, projected during moved picture elements by interpolation on the double dissolution of vertical. The resulting picture shows liquid courses of motion, which are to a very large extent free from disturbing edge flares. This quality makes the Z4 without reservation television suited.

Rumor has it MAP was reduced... ;). Let's not get into specific discussions about it, just wanted to pass it along.

Hmm. Wonder if I should cancel my preorder to see how it shakes out. DOn't want to get the shtick like all the AE900 early buyers.

Any reputable place should adjust your preorder price.

Does the Z4 have anything like the Hitachi TX100 has for adjusting colour uniformity? The Hitachi adjustments are so extensive that you can cure quite bad colour uniformity issues. It would nice to know that the Z4 has something similar. The Z3 I saw had less than perfect uniformity and there nothing you could do. My first TX100 had bad colour uniformity but I was largely able to correct it with user adjustments, and that was without trying hard, as I could have done much better. Also wonder if the Panasonic has any adjustment along these lines.

With a 480i component signal, I also spotted interlaced scan line artifacts with video material and film content transferred to video.As stated above, that is for 480i NTSC and not 576i PAL.

What's the latest on North American release dates?

I heard late Oct to mid Nov.

He says twice that you need to get an external scaler for Interlaced feeds
Yes, hence my confusion that two reviews says it handles 480i poorly and I thought Cine4Home said it was fine for TV. Thanks for bringing the review to my attention.

I believe that Cine4Home was referring to PAL and not NTSC (since they use PAL in Germany). I have read elsewhere as well that the Z4 does a good job with an interlaced PAL signal.

Ahh, now I understand... thanks Xander :)

Need some help. I cant seem to decide between the Z4 or Z3! The Z3 can be had at such a nice price. I will be sitting and projecting onto a 92" screen at 13' away. This should not be a problem with the Z3 correct?

Can any1 reccomend one or the other for movies/HD Shows. I watch a bunch of dark shows like lost and some1 said the Z3 looks hazy when watching content this dark. Does the Z4 fix this? Is the $600 price difference worth it? Thanks.

I have a question regarding the Sanyo's lens shift capabilities. I'll try to make it to the point and will elaborate if needed. When useing the HORIZONAL shift, if I were to use the max shift which is 50%, correct? That would put the lens at the far left in my case, of the image screen. I'm assuming you can not go farther than this? If so, than can there be any VERTICAL shift used at all? Would I be able to position the lens at the top left-hand corner of the screen?
Thanks in advance for your replies.

If you are using all of the horizontal shift, you will have zero vertical adjustment. I'm assuming that you don't have one yet. In that case, you should be able to plan your mounting position better. With the increased zoom capabilities (over the Z3, and lens shift that exceeds the AE900), you have a lot of places to mount the Z4, that should not use all of the lens shift capability (you want to stay away from using the maximum shift in either direction to keep closer to the lens sweet spot - brightness uniformity drops off as you get close to the limits).

How is the Z4 for peak-a-boo's?

Regarding the vertical banding. I found no vertical banding on the Panasonic AE900u I reviewed last month, but it sounds like (from the forum) that it's out there on some.

So, I talked to a big panasonic reseller, to see what they are hearing back from their customers. They had shipped over 90 900us by yesterday.

They report that they have had not one call from anyone regarding a problem (with anything). Now, that's pretty good for starters, there have to be some defective ones out there somewhere. Still the forum is loaded with perfectionists - as we all know. It does seem at least from the limited data, that the average consumer isn't noticing any. (Or assume its normal).

I'm still waiting for my evaluation Z4 from Sanyo. Hopefully it will arrive at the end of this coming week. -art

At various retailers including some forum sponsors.

At various retailers including some forum sponsors.
Then they're right on time. Shipments are supposed to begin next week or for retailers really on the ball, yesterday.

Does the Z4 have a dynamic iris which adjusts once every 1/60th second like the AE900? Does the Z4 also adjust gamma this way like the AE900 does?

Does the AE900 have a cool auto-door like the Z4? Does the AE900 have little holes in just the right spots to blow out dust specs?

IMHO, both are excellent choices. I went for the Z4 since past Z2 and Z3 owners seem to be quite happy and I love the 22dB sound rating. Also, the prospect of having huge amounts of contrast on tap for when the material calls for it is quite attractive and should give me some righteous bragging rights when chillin' with my home boy and his InFocus 7200.

Also, both the AE900 and Z4 are merely polished stepping stones on the way to 1080p! If I had less kids and cheaper cars, I'd probably be haunting JVC D-ILA threads instead.

- T

I read on one of the forum sponsor's site that they will not take back a Sanyo projector if it is DOA. They say this is Sanyo's policy. You have to get it repaired by Sanyo. Is this true of all vendors? How quick is Sanyo to respond if there is a problem?

Dick

Regarding the vertical banding. I found no vertical banding on the Panasonic AE900u I reviewed last month, but it sounds like (from the forum) that it's out there on some.

So, I talked to a big panasonic reseller, to see what they are hearing back from their customers. They had shipped over 90 900us by yesterday.

They report that they have had not one call from anyone regarding a problem (with anything). Now, that's pretty good for starters, there have to be some defective ones out there somewhere. Still the forum is loaded with perfectionists - as we all know. It does seem at least from the limited data, that the average consumer isn't noticing any. (Or assume its normal).

It seems there are sofar less machines with VB shipped, but that doesn't make it less annoying for those that get stuck with one. And I wouldn't call it being perfectionist if you have to look at a crappy picture all the time. Please don't diss people who have this problem as perfectionists, implying they're just complainers.

I'd rather hear from your reseller what he'll do with customers that do have VB and bring their brand new 900 in. Will he exchange them? Or just tell them they're expecting too much and send them home?

Neko

I read on one of the forum sponsor's site that they will not take back a Sanyo projector if it is DOA. They say this is Sanyo's policy. You have to get it repaired by Sanyo. Is this true of all vendors? How quick is Sanyo to respond if there is a problem?

A dealer that will not exchange a DOA PJ is a dealer not worth buying from. Regardless wether this is the brand's policy or not (though I seriously doubt any brand could afford such a thing, sounds more like a dealer issue to me)

Neko

Does the Z4 have a dynamic iris which adjusts once every 1/60th second like the AE900? Does the Z4 also adjust gamma this way like the AE900 does?

You mean the 900's iris is out of sync when it's fed 72Hz or 50Hz material? :D :D

Neko

A dealer that will not exchange a DOA PJ is a dealer not worth buying from. Regardless wether this is the brand's policy or not (though I seriously doubt any brand could afford such a thing, sounds more like a dealer issue to me)
Neko

Most dealers that sell Sanyo will have a disclaimer like this. However Sanyo's Quick Return Policy doesn't sound half bad. I've never used it so I make no claims that they follow it as well as they say.

http://www.sanyo.com/business/projectors/parts_qrp.cfm?showFileID=32

I think it's important though that everyone realize Sanyo is different. When you purchase a Z4 you better know you want it.

A good dealer would give you a new PJ and handle the defective one himself without bothering the customer with this.

Remember we're talking about DOA, not a PJ that goes bad after a few weeks of use.

Suppose you order a PJ at a dealer, and you go and pick it up and ask to see it work. And it doesn't. What will that dealer say? Sorry, but you have to pay for it anyway and you'll get it repaired in a weeks or so?

I doubt anyone will put up with that. Same for mailorder. If the dealer would not take it back and exchange it, I would just return it for a refund (we have excellent laws here in Europe for internet-bought stuff: 7-14 days refund, no questions asked and seller has to even pay return shipping.)

Neko

Regarding the return policy noted at VA for the z4 - that got me worried as well. Seems like an absurd and extreme policy in the world of electronics. If Sanyo provides 1 wk turn-around or something, then the concern subsides. We'll need clarificaiton on this...

The Warranty Quick Repair Program (QRP) works as follows:

First it is necessary to determine if the unit requires service or if the problem can be easily corrected without sending in the unit. Check our FAQ section on this Web site. If the answer to your problem is not indicated there, you may call your dealer or call toll free at (888) 337-1215 for additional assistance.
Once it has been determined that the projector needs service, you will be faxed a QRP authorization number and instructions.
SANYO will provide you with a Federal Express number so that you can overnight the malfunctioning unit to us. We pay the freight!
After we receive the unit here at Sanyo, we will repair it and return it to you in 24-72 hours (typically). Most of the projectors we receive are repaired and sent back within 24 hours. However, we can not guarantee this turn around.

Here's the actual wording. Name of company changed to "Vendor"

When purchasing a Sanyo projector, please understand that the standard Vendor's policies do not apply to the Sanyo product line. Sanyo does not offer exchanges for defective or DOA products--only repair services. Customers must contact Sanyo directly. For further questions on this matter, please call the Vendor Sales department prior to purchasing.

^Hmmm... I contacted my vendor and they took care of Sanyo repair for me. I didn't have to call them directly. Sanyo did however call me once they got the Repair Form from my Vendor to discuss the issues in even greated detail. Dusk's details are correct on the sending and returning part of it.

As posted in the AE900 thread:


color - AE900, Z4
contrast - AE900, Z4
sharpness -Z4, AE900
brightness - AE900, Z4
blacks - AE900, Z4
lack of sde - AE900, Z4
less noise - Z4, AE900
Auto Iris effective- AE900, Z4
Auto Iris smoothness- AE900/Z4
1080i processing - Z4, AE900



Reading back on CKL's review and he noted the following (limited to Panasonic and Z4):

Based on this review the 900 wins on almost all image performance parameters except for sharpness and noise. The Projector Central comparison conflicts with some of these results in that black levels were superior with the Panny on low average picture levels (ex. deep space) whereas the Z4 showed better with higher levels. Without messing around with filters which to believe? The PC review indicated an overall higher perceived contrast as a result. Also, how much perceived benefit would be achieved with a gray screen (specifically Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision)?

CKL shows a tie between iris smoothness, which I interpret as not seeing any "flutter" as the iris opens and closes from scene to scene. I've heard comments that the Z4 not being as fast may have a perceptible flashing artifact that I imagine would be distracting and fatiguing. Further information in this regard?

I'm yanking out what's left of my hair trying to decide between these two units. I'm very, very much in favor of the Z4 strictly because of its useful range of lens offset allowing me to pin to the ceiling (with the 900 it will hang down to eye level when standing on the riser, albeit behind the seats, so anyone who stands up and turns around will see a supernova). Ultimately my question is without the benefit of direct comparison would I even notice any of the Z4's performance trade-offs as noted above (although it did fare better in the Projector Central review)?


I would have to agree with CKL's assessment. I was in HK a few weeks ago and I wanted to buy either one of these machines. I demo'ed these 2 machines in multiple stores and the results were different due to the settings in each store. In one store, the AE900 won and in another the Z4 won. However, there was a store where both PJ were calibrated and the differences were marginal. I watched both machines on grey matte and white matte screens. It ssemed that both machines looked a bit better on white matte screens in a light controlled room. I was able to A/B machines as well as screens. HK is just a shopper's paradise when it comes to A/B'ing equipment.

However, I must agree that the AE900 wins out in color while the Z4 is much more sharp.

Really, both machines are great and I believe the VB was non-existnat or minimal at best. The viewing distance varied from 10-18 ft or so and picture quality from both were outstading. I think some people are complaining about VB and pixelation abit too much. Sure I am a perfectionist and I want to get the most for my money. However, these PJ are at an entry level price point and they offer amazing value for what you would get. The are cheaper than 50+" LCD rear projection units and with a quality screen you it would be hard to tell the difference. If you want perfect picture quality, I hope you can afford the Sim2, Infocus 777, Marantz or Qualia's, etc... as they are amazingly stunning.

Like they say, different strokes for different folks. Some may prefer the smaller AE900 or the automatic closing lens door on the Z4.

If this were to be your first PJ or an upgrade from a AE500/Z2, then either choice would be sufficient. However, if I owned a AE700/Z3, I probably wouldnt upgrade as of yet. Better to save your money for the next generation PJ after the AE900/Z4 and get a better screen if you curently have a cheap one.

It is true that your AE900/700 or Z4/Z3 unit would have some noticeable VB and small inperfections compared to your neighbor with the same machine. I think this may have to be some kind of quality control issue but there probability that there are differences between the same model # machines.

Like ac888, I have not found this to be a problem on the Sony HS-51. It is "in a different class" compared to Panny/Sanyo at a higher price tag.

I cant stress enough how these Panny's and Sanyo's do offer EXCELLENT value. It just depends on your luck of the draw. If you get a machine that has some noticeable problems, I would hope you purchased from a reputable dealer who would offer you an exchange.

If you dont like taking chances and dont mind paying a bit more, you could wait for the newer Sony HS-60 or get an older Sony HS-51.

Like I said earlier, I was in the processing of picking up a Z4/AE900 but the price on Sony HS-51 became really attractive for me as compared to either of these machines. It was really a no brainer for me.

However, I would hessitate to pick either one of these machines for backup duty! Both of these machines are much more vibrant then the Sony.

I do believe the Z4 and the AE900 are both better than their former Z3/AE700 counterparts.
However, I think the improvement from the AE900 over the 700 is much better than the Z4 compared to Z3.

The AE900 comes almost tweaked out of the box while the Z4 may need some more calibration.

As posted in the AE900 thread:

I do believe the Z4 and the AE900 are both better than their former Z3/AE700 counterparts.
However, I think the improvement from the AE900 over the 700 is much better than the Z4 compared to Z3.

The AE900 comes almost tweaked out of the box while the Z4 may need some more calibration.

Well I've heard that some folks are not impressed with the AE900 as current AE700 users. And the Z4 is not even out in the channel so how can you decide on which has greater improvements. Based on new features on the Z4 alone, I don't know how one draws that conclusion.

Seeing the real world improvements for each is premature until the Z4 is out in numbers.

I say this as a happy former AE700 owner. People should have a chance to hear multiple direct reports before any assessment can be drawn. That's just one take IMHO.

romaesw,
I have seen these new PJ's side by side in the same shop while in HK if you read my post above with my own quotes. Whether my opinion matters to others is another thing.
Anyways, I am no PJ expert so you can just take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I encourage prospective buyers to do A/B comparisions before they buy if they can.

The AE900 comes almost tweaked out of the box while the Z4 may need some more calibration.

It better be, given how few adjustments can actually be made. I would suggest that some 900's may not be tweaked enough if the sharpness and VB reports prove to be true. The fact that the Z4 includes so many of those little details like the dust cleaner, dynamic and static iris, VB tweak menu etc. gives me a little more peace of mind. Also the Sanyo warranty doesn't bother me. I think their stated policy is pretty good. They pay for overnight shipping and return shipping. That's pretty good if you ask me. Plus you do have the 3 years vs 1 year.

It better be, given how few adjustments can actually be made.
The 900 seems to have a pretty extensive range of controls to adjust color and grayscale.

The 900 seems to have a pretty extensive range of controls to adjust color and grayscale.
That's pretty standard stuff actually. If you didn't have those then what else would you have? Lamp modes?

so did any1 get this proj. yet? I want to order it but would just like to here some reviews from people that got it. It seems it is already in stock at V.A.

Units are expected to arrive on Tues or Weds of this week at a forum sponser and will be shipped to customers as soon as they arrive.

Too bad I already used up my VACA for this year - I have some serious work remaining before I can bolt a PJ to the ceiling!

- T

Rumor has it MAP was reduced... ;). Let's not get into specific discussions about it, just wanted to pass it along.

Has anyone seen this or have any more details? Now that they are coming in (and my preorder will ship soon!) it is decision time..... I'm willing to wait a couple weeks for a couple hundred dollars, and don't want to get stuck like the people that pre-ordered the AE900. :confused:

Has anyone seen this or have any more details? Now that they are coming in (and my preorder will ship soon!) it is decision time..... I'm willing to wait a couple weeks for a couple hundred dollars, and don't want to get stuck like the people that pre-ordered the AE900. :confused:

I'm going to contact my dealer and will let you guys know what I hear.

Called a forum sponsor...no comment on the price drop, but it doesn't seem likely right away. Could there be a drop as we near thanksgiving/xmas holiday, of course. But I wouldn't count on one in the first week of release (like those AE900 people felt).

My Z4 is shipping within the next day or two! :)

The Z4 has adjustability in terms of vertical banding?

Does the Z4 have any adjustability in terms of the colour uniformity like the Hitachi PJ TX100 does? In the Hitachi, you go to a setting called C.UNIF in the extended menu and you can really do a good job reducing colour non-uniformity problems. I haven't heard that the AE900 has this, does the Z4 have anything like this?

Guys how is the upscaler on the Z4 if I just feed it 480p from a dvd player via component output? My friend just got a 42" Sony RPTV (3LCD) and he used a "regular" DVD player via component and it looks amazing and he doesnt even need an upscaling DV Dplayer. How is the Z4 in that regard?

I read on one of the forum sponsor's site that they will not take back a Sanyo projector if it is DOA. They say this is Sanyo's policy. You have to get it repaired by Sanyo. Is this true of all vendors? How quick is Sanyo to respond if there is a problem?

Dick

sorry to get in on this late, but fwiw, I had a Sanyo PLV70 briefly;it wasn't doa, but did require service. The dealer/vendor did take it back - no questions asked. Which was a good thing, because Sanyo did NOT ever respond, either to the numerous phone requests I left, or emails to tech support contact email. I would not buy another Sanyo if I was forced to rely solely on Sanyo's tender mercies.

OTOH, if I had a reputable dealer who I could trust, who clearly stated that they, the vendor, would handle the problem, then I wouldn't worry.

BTW - I finally contacted a Sanyo rep, thru their personal cell number, given to my by the vendor; Sanyo rep was annoyed, said the problem was not Sanyo's to deal with, and "ALL" contact/resolution was to be "thru the dealer." Be very, very careful, folks.

Well I see 5 different vendors selling these now in stock and ready to ship on Ebay. Has anyone gotten word yet on their own pre order Z4 yet? Who in the states will get one first?

Troy

They seem to be showing them as in-stock, but a call to a forum sponsor stated they are still waiting on them to show... btw, this dealer showed a status of in-stock as well. I don't believe they are shipping in the states yet. :(

Trust me, they are shipping in the USA already. Mine arrives on Thursday this week - but I doubt I'll be the 1st to receive one here. :)

What time Thursday? I go to pick up my Z4 at 2:30pm on Thursday in Portland, Or. They are finally rolling in...Oh Yea!

I saw at C*stco - they have Toshiba DVD with upscaler to 720p or 1080p with HDMI output for $79. Maybe that's your best bet for high quality video

I saw at C*stco - they have Toshiba DVD with upscaler to 720p or 1080p with HDMI output for $79. Maybe that's your best bet for high quality video

What DVD player are people using for their Z4? I have an LG9832NXC (Zenith DVB318), and was wondering what was the popular choice for the Z4. The LG has a problem that you can either have up-converting component outputs, or decent HDMI interface (the Firmware with up-converting component has white crush).

The LG9832NXC has DCDi, but is no longer a new player...

Hey Mark,


Do you still have the Z1 or have you upgraded yet?

I actually have an old panny progressive scan DVD player that has component out. I would like to use that in the meantime. So I would like ot know how the sanyo Z4 does the upscaling?

I saw at C*stco - they have Toshiba DVD with upscaler to 720p or 1080p with HDMI output for $79. Maybe that's your best bet for high quality video

That must be 1080i ... not 1080p.

What time Thursday? I go to pick up my Z4 at 2:30pm on Thursday in Portland, Or. They are finally rolling in...Oh Yea!
As soon as Mr Fedex appears at my door! Probably in the morning sometime. Hmmm...might have to take a sick day! :)

Well I see 5 different vendors selling these now in stock and ready to ship on Ebay. Has anyone gotten word yet on their own pre order Z4 yet? Who in the states will get one first?

Troy

I ordered one last week on EBAY. I checked one night, and nothing. I checked that morning, and there it was. It had to be one of the first ones off of there, as they now have a few more. Mine came yesterday with a Japanese manual, but English OSD and lettering. It looks like it came directly form Japan. I downloaded the manual. Company had great feedback, so I am keeping my fingers crossed. I need to get a mount and have not plugged it in yet. THEY ARE HERE, in one way or another. Now if only the Yamaha RX-V2600 would get here.

Panny's gonna get this inning by being first on the street.

Saw a 900 last Sunday and it was impressive. Gotta decide in the next few days - Z4-Z4, where are't thou??? Gimme something to work with here Sanyo....

Just checked the Sanyo Canada web-site. Still no Z-4 - only Z1,2 & 3.

Panny 900 has been on the canadian web-site for 2 weeks...

I guess Sanyo has decided that Panny is allowed to own Canada in this arena.

I agree with you, Eagletree. I really want to see the Z4, or at the very least start hearing more customer reviews on it...

Here's how I see the Z4 vs. AE900 battle based on reviews / specs / features:

Positioning: Z4 (better lens shift)
VB Correction: Z4 (panel correction), but hopefully there is no VB.
Maintenance: Z4 (panel blow holes for removing dust) - How useful is this really?
Sharpness: Z4, but at the expense of SDE...
SDE: AE900, but probably not an issue for the Z4 if you sit at the recommended distance.
Warrantee: Z4 (of course, because of the 3 year vs. 1 year for the AE900)
Color: AE900, but how noticeably off is the color on the Z4?
Contract: It's a toss-up. Both sound great, except for black level...
Black level: AE900 for very dark scenes, but Z4 during bright/dark scenes.
480i: AE900, but who is going to watch SD on the Z4 anyway? HD and DVD upscaling for me.

Did I miss any categories?

Who's the winner? I'd say the Z4, based on features! However, if the color is that much worse, or if SDE is too noticeable, maybe the less feature-rich AE900 is where my money should go.

Any suggestions? Experienced projector owners - Which of these categories do you think should carry more weight than the others?


Alan

I would say the main difference when I saw them side bu side was sharpness vs color. Which do you prefer?

I would be happy with either one.

Just checked the Sanyo Canada web-site. Still no Z-4 - only Z1,2 & 3.

Sanyo’s LCD Site ( http://www.sanyo-lcdp.com/english/) still lists the Z3 as “new” dated March of this year. :rolleyes:

I would say the main difference when I saw them side bu side was sharpness vs color. Which do you prefer?

I would be happy with either one.

That's what makes it so difficult for me. These are b oth most important.

I am used to the razor sharp image of my currrent Sony projector and also want very accurate skin tones and black & white.

Hopefully, the Z4 can have the gray scale and colors adjusted enough that puts it in the running, given it's reported sharpness.

Still waiting for more reviews, as well as the Epson 550 and Hitachi 200 reviews.

Shelly

Shelly - I'm in the same boat. I want a sharp picture WITH rich, accurate colors. By all accounts, the Sanyo is definitely sharp. And nobody disputes that it has rich colors. However, are they "accurate enough" to where I won't feel like I'm making a trade-off on accurate colors for more sharpness...

Alan

I agree with you, Eagletree. I really want to see the Z4, or at the very least start hearing more customer reviews on it...

Here's how I see the Z4 vs. AE900 battle based on reviews / specs / features:

Positioning: Z4 (better lens shift)
VB Correction: Z4 (panel correction), but hopefully there is no VB.
Maintenance: Z4 (panel blow holes for removing dust) - How useful is this really?
Sharpness: Z4, but at the expense of SDE...
SDE: AE900, but probably not an issue for the Z4 if you sit at the recommended distance.
Warrantee: Z4 (of course, because of the 3 year vs. 1 year for the AE900)
Color: AE900, but how noticeably off is the color on the Z4?
Contract: It's a toss-up. Both sound great, except for black level...
Black level: AE900 for very dark scenes, but Z4 during bright/dark scenes.
480i: AE900, but who is going to watch SD on the Z4 anyway? HD and DVD upscaling for me.

Did I miss any categories?

Who's the winner? I'd say the Z4, based on features! However, if the color is that much worse, or if SDE is too noticeable, maybe the less feature-rich AE900 is where my money should go.

Any suggestions? Experienced projector owners - Which of these categories do you think should carry more weight than the others?


Alan

Greetings All,

Thought I'd toss in some prelim comments on Alan's points, but first, good news.

Sanyo has confirmed at last, that my Z4 evaluation unit has shipped and tracking says I have it Thursday. That means I'll be reviewing most of the Weekend.

I will try to put up a useful prelim review and some images, with more info and insight the following week, since so many are on the fence.

But to Alan's points:

The Z4 does have greater range on lens shift, and this may be a plus for a few people, but it doesn't look to be that big a difference (without checking charts - about a foot difference on a 100" screen, if I recall - and that depends on how the zoom is set.. If you need the extreme, you should find that there will be more bowing of the image (curvature along the bottom of the image if you are ceiling mounting). If table mounting low, this could be a plus for the Z4.

Vertical banding, while I have seen some reports on the threads, Panasonic, and one of their large dealers is telling me that they are not hearing of problems (perhaps one here/ one there. The Dealer in question has shipped over 100 units now and not one of their customers have called about it, of course we are pickier than the average consumer.

Screen Door. I'll take issue. Many people do want to sit closer than the recommended, afterall they want the movie theater effect, and that really isn't the equivilent of sitting in the last 5 rows of a movie theater either. So, I at least consider the Panny's LCD panels a real plus. (Hey, I am now sitting 11 feet back from a 128" firehawk with the BenQ 8720 I am reviewing. At that distance and screen size, the old Z3 and most other LCD HT projectors have pixels that are obviously visible.

Sharpness - I tend to suspect based on the Z3/Panny700 that much is the result of the pixels being more visible, and if not normally noticeable, the brain knows....

However I am looking forward to playing with that Transient something or other that another reviewer said enhanced sharpness.

Color, the Panny is excellent - better than a BenQ 7700, and most other more expensive projectors out of the box. A touch too much yellow, but easily correctable. I'm a fanatic for good fleshtones, so color accuracy I rank as particularly important - when I find colors off, that aggrevates me.

Dust inside. Sanyo Z1, Z2, and Z3 (biz models too) have been prone to letting dust get in the light path. I don't recall this being a problem I have read about with the older Panasonics. Apparently the Sanyo blower does work pretty well, but this is normally not a problem for most projectors.

Lastly Warranty. Sanyo has the 3 years, Panny dealers typically the 2 extra years for $200. (So that's why the $200 rebate is there?).

However, there has been much bitching on the threads about Sanyo's customer support and service, and apparently many frustrated consumers. Check it out, I am a believer that we are entitled to good follow up support. As I recall there may be a thread on AVS dedicated to that subject but I haven't looked.

On the other hand, I haven't heard similar about Panasonic's support, just the short warranty.

So it probably will come down to a rematch of last year. The two new models will grab the lion's share of the market, and which wins overall will be more of specific requirements of users, and dealer recommendations.

And just to muddy up everyone's life, supposedly the $2499 selling price Epson Cinema 550 ships next week. It's only claiming 3000:1 contrast, but most of what's over 1500:1 on LCD products is done wth "smoke and mirrors" AI, etc. When you see an LCD with a 5000:1 contrast ratio, dont even expect blacks to be as dark as any 4000:1 DLP.

So good luck. I'll drop back to let everyone know when I have the prelim Z4 review up on my site. Meantime those looking at the 900u, can read what I have on it. (PS, I write mostly for average consumers, and do not get into the extremely technical aspects) - ie. what percentage of buyers of a $2000 projector own a light meter for calibration, or will pay $500 or so to have a pro do one...

Good hunting -art

One more thing, I mentioned the Epson Cinema 550. That review should immediately follow the Z4 review. I am expecting the 550 in for review by the 9th or 10th of November.

Friendly advice. those of you buying fairly expensive screens, companies like Stewart (as well as Vutec's ScreenStar, and the new Mirage from Screen Innovations, are stretching out delivery times as the holidays approach. Don't be surprised if you want a Stewart, if you have to wait 4 or more weeks if you order late November. Da-lite normally doesn't seem to have delays that long, but if you want your theater done by Xmas, time to get your screen ordered soon. -art

I think it interesting how opposite some reviews are. Cine4home has posted its final part of the AE900 review. I would say it is the least positive AE900 review out there. Ekkehart continues to harp on how good the Z4 is in terms of image depth. Projector Central had a much more positive look at the AE900 but still had the Z4 on top by a bit.

Presenter - Thanks for the input. One of the things that stuck out was your comment on 'sitting closer to the screen to feel more like you're at the movies'. I agree. For some movies I (or one of my friends) might want to move forward a couple feet to get a larger picture. However, if there is SDE, it might ruin the experience. Most likely I'll want to sit back (at the recommended distance) so I'll be able to take in the entire image without feeling like I have to move my head back and forth. However, I hope you cover how close you can really get before SDE becomes annoying...
I like your tag line "Trust your senses, not the specs." I wish I could do that! Unfortunately, none of my local stores carry the brands/models that I am interested in. So, lurking in the forums and reading reviews is my only option. Having said that though, I really appreciate everyone's 2 cents and reviews. If enough general consumers feel a certain way about a product, most likely I will too...

I look forward to your review, Presenter.

Thanks again,

Alan

Art does present some very valid points.

Of all the AE900's that I saw in action (at least from 10 different stores), only one unit looked bad. I mean I actually saw pixelation from about 8-10 standing from the screen. However, the setup in this store was less than optimal. I also saw some of them in rooms with lots of light and they looked fantastic. Most of the screens were some form of white matte and I saw 3 setups on gray screens. There were about 4 with Stewart screens. Just so you know, More than half of these stores had on average 5 screens where you could A/B as they were all pulldowns.

Same goes with the Z4. Only 1 machine I saw was somewhat poor,

Otherwise, I could say that most had no signs of VB or SDE. Like I said earlier, the difference in sharpness and color is not that huge of a difference.

It is funny how in HK the market price of the Z4 is about $130us more than the AE900. This would explain why both machines are the same price in NA with the rabet for the Panny.

I guess it comes down to your preference. BMW or Mercedes Benz? Some like to listen to music that is neutral and detailed while others prefer a warm smooth sound.

I just got a note that Z4 is in stock.

Does anyone wish that Sanyo had kept the black case for the Z-4? I'm kinda partial to black (looks more high-tech to me).

However, I hope you cover how close you can really get before SDE becomes annoying...
I'm interested in that as well. My theater was built with the main seats at about 1.6x width (36 degree field of vision), which for my 87" wide 16:9 screen places my eyes at about 11' 7". The PC review indicated SDE is non-existent at 1.3x for video so I presume that at my position I'll be fine. I can't tolerate SDE at all so this is an important consideration.

YES!!!!!!! My Z4 has been shipped and arrives tomorrow!!!!!! :D :cool: :eek: I just finished building my HTPC also!! :cool: Happy times are near!!!!

I'm interested in that as well. My theater was built with the main seats at about 1.6x width (36 degree field of vision), which for my 87" wide 16:9 screen places my eyes at about 11' 7". The PC review indicated SDE is non-existent at 1.3x for video so I presume that at my position I'll be fine. I can't tolerate SDE at all so this is an important consideration.
If it is a problem for you at 1.6, can you tolerate a slight defocus?

I used to have a Z1 and loved the little projector. It had such a great picture and I only had to open it a couple of times to get the dust blobs out! I think the SDE thing is overblown --- I used the slight de-focus trick and it worked for me. It had VB just a couple of times (3 or 4) in the year that I had it.

I now have an PT-AE700U ... and guess what ... I have never been particularly happy with it. I thought that it was a bit revealing on DVDs (causing an excess "grittiness") though I have managed to mitigate that by replacing my DVD player with an Oppo upscaling DVD player. Despite this, my biggest gripe is the VB on the Panny. Even though it is extremely slight (yes, I have done the flicker tweak) and I can't see it most of the time, whenever there is a "pan" of a solid color (sky, sometime an actor's face) I see it and "drop out" of the illusion of an immersive movie experience. I really hate that.

I have been looking for a cheapo projector (with 50% horizontal lens shift) for my great room to have a permament video wall installation (Z1x, Z2, Z3 all fit the bill here -- SIDE NOTE: Why the hell didn't Sanyo sell the Z1x in the US, it would have been perfect for me!) ... but now I'm thinking that I may get the Z4, replace the Panny in the media room and put the Panny in the great room. (Sigh) It seems excessive to put a $2k projector into the great room for "background" effect, but ...

I think the Z4 sounds like a winner. Great zoom, great lens shift, dust blob remover and VB adjustment. I personally like a sharp picture and the de-focus trick works for me.

I think Sanyo may have won me back ...

If it is a problem for you at 1.6, can you tolerate a slight defocus?

Also, I think there is an IMX powerbuy or something. That may end up being the ticket, especially if you can get a Z4 for a little less than a 900.

What is an IMX???

What is an IMX???

Look at This Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=597432)

I've also seen reference to an HS-51+IMX thread, but haven't seen it. I'm looking for it to see comparison screen shots.

My Z4 is in a Fedex facility less than 5 miles from me.....Hmmmm, wonder if I can go pick it up today rather than wait for them to deliver it tomorrow! :)

Got my Z4 last night but haven't had a chance to mess with it too much yet. Does anyone know the size of the ceiling mounting holes on the unit. The manual doesn't mention it anywhere and I see that they are larger than the holes in my 4805.

My first impression on turning it on was that it was pretty good but not noticeably better than my 4805. I need to tweak it, but I guess I was spoiled by the excellent color and picture quality of the 4805 out of the box. Hopefully I'll get to dial it in better over the next couple of nights and I'll be able to see the real benefits of the upgrade. I hope so, because if not, I may be returning it next week.

I must say though, that the lens shift is excellent. It makes it super easy to setup. I just sat in on a ladder and moved the picture to the screen so that I could do some comparison between it and the 4805. Hopefully my HDMI/DVI cable will be arriving today or tomorrow so that I can compare the DVD quality from my OPPO. The HDTV feed did look sharper, but since the colors are off the overall picture quality wasn't as good as the 4805.

Now that there are quite a few Z4 owners...

Can any report regarding the issue raised on the Edge Enhancement that can't be disabled?

The problem can be easily seen when connecting a PC to a Z4: wherever there should be only some black pixels surrounded by some grey pixels (when displaying a context menu by clicking through the right mouse button), a couple of white pixels are inserted digitally in every direction between the black and grey pixels.

This is typical of Edge Enhancement, this processing remains ON even if one sets sharpness to its lowest level or disable the advanced option 'Transient Improvement'.

The upside is that it gives more 3D effect and sharpness to a low quality picture. The downside is that if you use your Z4 for gaming you won't get any 1 to 1 mapping. Even worst when watching very good quality HD content , although no EE is needed at all, you will see some annoying noise during movements of camera.

This problem had been reported by a couple of people a few weeks ago, I wanted to check if it was just an isolated case or had been already fixed in a newer version of the firmware. I would be grateful if people could confirm whether this problem is still there or not. Please precise the firmware version. Thanks.

Does anyone wish that Sanyo had kept the black case for the Z-4? I'm kinda partial to black (looks more high-tech to me).

Well John, I must disagree as this pell-mell switch to black boxes in AV gear, and now computer cases too, gets my goat.

THEY SHOW DUST LIKE CRAZY!!

Any colour for me, as long as it's not black please!

for those interested, a comparison of the H79 & Z4 has been posted.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/plv-z4_h79.htm

interesting link thx

I really want to believe it! Anyway this is good for the Consumer; DLP has to become more aggressive with their pricing to play a role in this segment of the market, I don't think that the average consumer will want to pay 3 times more for small differences; even if this comparison is not valid to some people most of us will definitely pay attention to what websites like this have to say.

If it is a problem for you at 1.6, can you tolerate a slight defocus?
Depending on a) how severe the SDE is at the main seats, and b) how much defocusing would be required to offset without softening the image. I'm hoping someone with a Z4 installed (or who has access to one) can comment on that "threshold distance" directly.

snip - so that I could do some comparison between it and the 4805. Hopefully my HDMI/DVI cable will be arriving today or tomorrow so that I can compare the DVD quality from my OPPO. The HDTV feed did look sharper, but since the colors are off the overall picture quality wasn't as good as the 4805.

I would be VERY interested in your opinion of this. I have the Oppo/4805 combo and am also considering the Z4 as a replacement for the 4805. To be honest, I am not looking for a big jump in PQ. My main drivers are lower fan noise and the larger image/increased brightness. (Unfortunately, in the projector room, the best location for the projector is about 3 feet away from my head. :( So that is why fan noise is a biggie.) So would love your opinion on these two areas!

Interesting comparison, thanks for the link. Another example of projectors that can't be all things to all people - there are inherent trade-offs made in the design stage. I'm not in the market for a $10K projector right now but if I were I'd be thinking long and hard about shelling out that kind of change in light of these comparisons.

Got a chance to tweak the Z4 using some of the settings posted in the tweak thread tonight. I got the color dialed in pretty good and the picture is much nicer now. DVD is about on par with the 4805 now, which was all I was hoping for anyway, since the 4805 already had a stellar dvd image.

HDTV does look better than it did on the 4805, but I can't say that it looks worlds better too me. I really think this has a lot to do with the quality of the signal though, because some channels would show an exceptionally good image versus just a good image at times. The real difference for me can be seen when looking at a 720p Xbox game on the Z4 vs the 4805. The image is MUCH crisper and detailed looking on the Z4. I was really happy to see this, since one of my main reasons for upgrading is the 360. I looked at the Incredible Hulk, Soul Calibur and Xmen Legends, and they all showed a marked improvement in image quality (especially Soul Calibur).

The Z4 is wonderfully quiet also. After putting up with the relatively noisy 4805 for the past 10 months, it is great to not hear the projector anymore. There are a ton of different settings that can be tweaked on this thing, and I'm sure that as more people with different setups get it, we'll see some good tweaks that can really make the image sing. I'm just not patient enough to do all the testing necessary to find that ultimate setting, so I'll just rely on those of you who really get off on doing that kind of stuff! ;)

I am satisfied enough with the improvements to go ahead and keep the Z4, but if I were only going to be watching DVDs and probably even HDTV (since I don't watch a whole lot it anyway), then I would most likely be sending it back and sticking with the 4805 for now. The improvements shown on a pure 720p signal from the Xbox really impressed me though. And the quiet fan is a massive plus also.

For the person asking about edge enhancement, I don't have a PC hooked up to the projector, but after using ROne's tweaks I didn't really notice any enhancement problems. Of course I'm not a huge videophile anyway, so a more discerning person might see something.

I would be VERY interested in your opinion of this. I have the Oppo/4805 combo and am also considering the Z4 as a replacement for the 4805. To be honest, I am not looking for a big jump in PQ. My main drivers are lower fan noise and the larger image/increased brightness. (Unfortunately, in the projector room, the best location for the projector is about 3 feet away from my head. :( So that is why fan noise is a biggie.) So would love your opinion on these two areas!


The fan is MUCH quieter. You will definitely notice this right away. I litterally had to stand next to it before It became noticeable. This was on the Auto 2 lamp mode which is one step above the econo mode. The PJ is plenty bright in this mode for my 106" BO cloth screen. IMO you won't see a big jump in picture quality from the OPPO/Z4, because the image from the 4805/OPPO combination is already pretty damn impressive as I'm sure you know. I don't know how big of an image you are looking for, but the Z4 is providing my screen with PLENTY of punch. If your goal is a quieter projector with a bright image and equivalent DVD quality to the 4805, then the Z4 can provide you with that IMO. I would just test drive one from a dealer with no restocking fee for a return with a few hours on the bulb. That way you can see if the improvements will be good enough for you also. I suspect that they will be. :)


EDIT: I do need to make a slight change to my comments. When I made my previous post I forgot that I had my computer on so the noise from the Z4 was completely masked by it. After turning the computer off I could hear the Z4 fan, but it was still quiet and not nearly as intrusive as the 4805's fan. Just another note for comparison, when I ran the 4805 with my computer on, I could still slightly hear the 4805 fan.

The fan is MUCH quieter. You will definitely notice this right away. I litterally had to stand next to it before It became noticeable. This was on the Auto 2 lamp mode which is one step above the econo mode. The PJ is plenty bright in this mode for my 106" BO cloth screen. IMO you won't see a big jump in picture quality from the OPPO/Z4, because the image from the 4805/OPPO combination is already pretty damn impressive as I'm sure you know. I don't know how big of an image you are looking for, but the Z4 is providing my screen with PLENTY of punch. If your goal is a quieter projector with a bright image and equivalent DVD quality to the 4805, then the Z4 can provide you with that IMO. I would just test drive one from a dealer with no restocking fee for a return with a few hours on the bulb. That way you can see if the improvements will be good enough for you also. I suspect that they will be. :)

Did you ever own an X1? I have not seen the image from a 4805 but I imagine it is at least noticeably better than my X1 is. I would like to move from my 84" BO Cloth screen to a 106" HCCV grey screen and not see any screen door at 13', good black levels/contrast and great colors. This could be my PJ. If you have any experience with an X1 and could comment, that would be great.

Greg

Looks like it's going to be a late night tonight! :)

http://www.red-meadow.com/thumbs/red-med88.jpg

i just read the finished review of the AE900 on cine4home.

to make thins short the AE900 and Z4 seem to be on par with both having their pros and cons to each other

imho these seem to be the most important differences:

AE900 + near perfect color calibration in cinema1 mode out of the box
AE900 + DI works way better then on Z4
Z4 + way better lens-shift
Z4 + picture has more depth in mixed scenes (light and dark content)
Z4 + picture is sharper

for those of you who are able to read german head over to cine4home to have a look for yourself.

Looks like it's going to be a late night tonight! :)

http://www.red-meadow.com/thumbs/red-med88.jpg


CoolCanuck, What is that on the left in your picture?

Did you ever own an X1? I have not seen the image from a 4805 but I imagine it is at least noticeably better than my X1 is. I would like to move from my 84" BO Cloth screen to a 106" HCCV grey screen and not see any screen door at 13', good black levels/contrast and great colors. This could be my PJ. If you have any experience with an X1 and could comment, that would be great.

Greg

I've never seen an X1 but I've heard that the 4805 was a marked improvement over it. I still don't believe that the Z4 necessarily provides an improvement over the DVD picture quality of the 4805 but it is on par with it. They really have a different look though. The 4805 has a smoother, filmy look to it, while the Z4 has a sharper more contrasty look to it. They both look great though. Depending on what your viewing materials are, the 4805 might be the more appropriate upgrade for you. If you are looking at DVD only then I would definitely recommend the 4805. It has plenty enough power to drive the 106" screen. If however you are going to be looking at more HDTV or doing some 720p gaming then the Z4 would be the better choice IMO.

well CoolCanuck... it's been almost 7 hours.... :D

Does anyone know the screw size needed for ceiling mounting the Z4? I can't find it anywhere in the manual or on the Sanyo website. I can see that they are much larger than my 4805 mounting holes though.

What is that on the left in your picture?
Looks like an anamorphic lens - seems the Canuck is going with a constant height setup. Sweet.

I am unable to translate the cine4home website with online website language translators :( Alta-vista usually works, but not this time. Tried another and it says "not allowed"?

What is that on the left in your picture?


Looks like an anamorphic lens - seems the Canuck is going with a constant height setup. Sweet.

You bet! That's a Prismasonic H600M anamorphic lens. I'm going for about a 117" wide 2.35:1 image with the Z4 and from my first few hours of testing without the lens in place it looks very doable.


well CoolCanuck... it's been almost 7 hours....
This is the first chance I've gotten to even leave the room. :) It's a beautiful PJ. I still don't have my final screen in place so I'm projecting onto a 4:3 100" diag. High Power for now.

Setup: Very easy as expected. I'm sitting it on a stand at 17 feet right now while I wait to get my Chief ceiling mount installed. The controls for the lens shift are awesome -- very easy to set and lock.

Overall:
The colors are beautiful - I'm coming from the DLP world and I was most interested in seeing the color balance, the contrast of course, and the appearance of any SDE. I used the Creative Cinema mode with all transient enhancements turned off. Played around with the Gamma, Brightness and Contrast a bit, but overall I'm happy with the image it puts out even with the defaults. The colors are beautiful -- watched some Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, and Moulin Rouge and found pretty natural fleshtones. I watched some Rome in HDTV on HBO, and Gladiator which both contain a lot of dimly lit scenes. I found the same as most reviewers -- the overall black level is pretty good. Completely dark scenes still had a rough time producing the blackest of black, but this was to be expected and perfectly acceptable for my viewing habits. Scenes with soft lighting were beautiful - I could still make out shadow detail pretty well. Keep in mind I have a light controlled dedicated theater and was viewing this in almost absolute darkness (just a soft glow in the back of the room on the riser lip).

SDE:
First let me say the image is really razor sharp. My front row is at about 13' and I tested a few different image widths. At that distance I found anything larger than about 117" W would have noticeable SDE. Note that this is sitting 13 feet from a 10 foot wide image! A slight defocusing of the lens would probably help, but instead of going that route I'm going to be using my H600 anamorphic lens for constant height which will naturally provide a slight softening of the image on its own. So, I'd say if you are doing a CH setup with the Z4, then the SDE is pretty much a non-issue. If not, then don't go much closer than about 1.3 or 1.4x screen width.

Sound: This thing is deadly silent. I put my head about a foot from it and could barely discern any sort of activity. This will not be an issue at all, even for a Z4 ceiling mounted above a row.

Oh for kicks I played a few scenes from Gladiator, held the H600 lens in front of the projector and activated the vertical stretch (Zoom) on the Z4, flipped the lens controls for horizontal stretch, and voila! A beautiful 10 foot wide scope picture with plenty of brightness and beautiful detail. Projectorus Maximus.

You bet! That's a Prismasonic H600M anamorphic lens. I'm going for about a 117" wide 2.35:1 image with the Z4 and from my first few hours of testing without the lens in place it looks very doable.



This is the first chance I've gotten to even leave the room. :) It's a beautiful PJ. I still don't have my final screen in place so I'm projecting onto a 4:3 100" diag. High Power for now.

Setup: Very easy as expected. I'm sitting it on a stand at 17 feet right now while I wait to get my Chief ceiling mount installed. The controls for the lens shift are awesome -- very easy to set and lock.

Overall:
The colors are beautiful - I'm coming from the DLP world and I was most interested in seeing the color balance, the contrast of course, and the appearance of any SDE. I used the Creative Cinema mode with all transient enhancements turned off. Played around with the Gamma, Brightness and Contrast a bit, but overall I'm happy with the image it puts out even with the defaults. The colors are beautiful -- watched some Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, and Moulin Rouge and found pretty natural fleshtones. I watched some Rome in HDTV on HBO, and Gladiator which both contain a lot of dimly lit scenes. I found the same as most reviewers -- the overall black level is pretty good. Completely dark scenes still had a rough time producing the blackest of black, but this was to be expected and perfectly acceptable for my viewing habits. Scenes with soft lighting were beautiful - I could still make out shadow detail pretty well. Keep in mind I have a light controlled dedicated theater and was viewing this in almost absolute darkness (just a soft glow in the back of the room on the riser lip).

SDE:
First let me say the image is really razor sharp. My front row is at about 13' and I tested a few different image widths. At that distance I found anything larger than about 117" W would have noticeable SDE. Note that this is sitting 13 feet from a 10 foot wide image! A slight defocusing of the lens would probably help, but instead of going that route I'm going to be using my H600 anamorphic lens for constant height which will naturally provide a slight softening of the image on its own. So, I'd say if you are doing a CH setup with the Z4, then the SDE is pretty much a non-issue. If not, then don't go much closer than about 1.3 or 1.4x screen width.

Sound: This thing is deadly silent. I put my head about a foot from it and could barely discern any sort of activity. This will not be an issue at all, even for a Z4 ceiling mounted above a row.

Oh for kicks I played a few scenes from Gladiator, held the H600 lens in front of the projector and activated the vertical stretch (Zoom) on the Z4, flipped the lens controls for horizontal stretch, and voila! A beautiful 10 foot wide scope picture with plenty of brightness and beautiful detail. Projectorus Maximus.

Sounds like a great start! Look forward to more reports from you on this one.

My biggest issue is VB ...

I'm assuming, Canuck, that it has zero, right??? :)

My biggest issue is VB ...

I'm assuming, Canuck, that it has zero, right???
None that I could see. :) I'll do some more checking tonight though.

Also remember that one of the awesome things about this machine is the ability for the end user to tweak any VB out manually.

Why, oh why didn't I call in sick today?!

i just read the finished review of the AE900 on cine4home.

to make thins short the AE900 and Z4 seem to be on par with both having their pros and cons to each other

imho these seem to be the most important differences:

AE900 + near perfect color calibration in cinema1 mode out of the box
AE900 + DI works way better then on Z4
Z4 + way better lens-shift
Z4 + picture has more depth in mixed scenes (light and dark content)
Z4 + picture is sharper

for those of you who are able to read german head over to cine4home to have a look for yourself.

Two things to add:
- AE900 suffers from inconsistent quality regarding VB (2 out of 3 test machines showed the issue).
- ghosting for both digital and analog signals.

I also noticed he gave higher marks for the Z4. I didn't expect that after reading another review where someone clearly favored the AE900. Makes it even harder to make a decision.

Based on the opinions here, I'm seriously considering to upgrade from my 4:3 DLP to the Z4. I have a question that was most likely asked on avsforum before (but I couldn't find the thread; sorry).

Question: How do native 720p projectors handle DVDs that contain movies shot in 1.85:1 aspect ratio? Do the projectors leave a few top and bottom lines black to display the movie in its proper 1.85:1 ratio or do they stretch the movie to the projectors' native aspect ratio, 1.78:1, thus slightly distorting the movie? Also, does this depend on whether I feed the PJ with a 480p signal or a scaled 720p signal (say, from the OPPO DVD player)?

Thanks,
Ales

Like any 16:9 projector on the market, they display the black lines. The black lines are essentially part of the image so they can't just skip them unless you actually force overscan.

Just a quicky, my Z4 eval unit arrived from Sanyo a few minutes ago.

I had to take a quick look, of course, so I plugged it in (component video), on my side by side Stewart screen (supports 2 98" diagonal 16:9 images simultaneously). Unfortunately the Panny 900u I have been playing with is out on loan for a few days, so I grabbed an H78DC3 Optoma for a quick side by side.

No color tweaking done. The Optoma was set in Normal mode (my preference), the Z4 I tried primarily in Creative Cinema (which should have all the razzle dazzle electronics and irises doing their thing.

I put on a D-VHS tape - "Over America" and watched some day, and night scenes from the NYC sequence. I have not tried DVD yet.

First, definitely some vertical banding is detectable - no time to play, though.

2nd: pixels are far more visible than the H78 (DLP, no surprise) but the Panny's pixels are barely more detectable than the Optoma. Those who like to sit close like me, will not like the Z4's pixels.

3rd, for now, black levels. Without reading the manual, but switching thru the Creative Cinema, Pure Cinema and Family modes, the Creative seems to definitely do the best blacks on night scenes.

However, compared to the H78, it's really no contest. The H78 in Normal mode has blacks that are so much darker that it is blatant and stricking. Now this is not much different than when I did the Panny 900u against the H78. The LCD crowd can hype high contrast numbers all they want, but when it comes to just trying to keep black, black, the Darkchip3 blows them away.

When I have the Panny back in, it should be interesting.

Oh two other things that I did notice: In Creative Cinema mode the Z4 seems to have some form of edge enhancement working that created overemphasised vertical lines (part of a building) that I noticed on buildings on a NYC skyline scene. The edges went almost white as opposed to the sandy color of the rest of the building. I'd say it's too tricked out. Also on the H78 those same building lines were not only natural color (relative to the rest of the building), but smooth and straight. (but the shot of that section of the building is not perfectly straight up and down, and on the Z4, there is a visible stair step effect. (nasty - minor, but nasty).

Sharpness of the Z4 - very nice, the new lens shift seems to work well, and with the lock, the slipping of the image that drove some Z3 owners nuts should no longer be a headache.

All that said, the H78 sells for near double the price.... Based on 30 minutes (or less) I don't think the Z4 is a serious contender against the H78 (some will of course disagree), however, the shootout with the Panny should be very interesting.

As to the previous comments on color accuracy, the Z4 seemed pretty good out of the box, but I agree with others, that the Panny is down right superb (give or take a slightly strong yellow which is easily correctable).

What fun. And I have an Epson 550 scheduled to arrive next week. I suspect that there will be those who favor each of the 3 LCD models.

So, don't write off DLP projectors yet - certainly not the Darkchip3 units, but those older HD2+ projectors have some big time competition. (No wonder one HD2+ DLP manufacturer has lowered pricing and is throwing in a free lamp and mount.)

The Z4 looks to be an excellent product, but not without flaws. Would I recommend a Z4 over a Panny 900u, or the new Epson? No idea yet. I suspect each will have strengths.

I will work with the Z4 all weekend and have images on my site, and more commentary, although it will be a work in progress, especially until I put it side by side with the Panny, hopefully on Monday. -art

It will be interested to see if you can tweak out the VB, since it is something that bother a lot of people no matter how far or close you sit..

Thanks for the advance comments, Art. BTW, I didn't notice the yellow with my AE900 that we did on your review sample (first thing I checked), so that might vary from one unit to the next. In any event, it's correctable.

When you get a chance, see if using extreme lens shift affects the PQ. With the Panny, it causes some misconvergence that's most noticeable on white lines or text.

Based on a week I just spent with and InFocus 7210, I'd agree that the DC3 chip DLPs still have a advantage in the deep blacks, but that's a whole different price range.

However, compared to the H78, it's really no contest. The H78 in Normal mode has blacks that are so much darker that it is blatant and stricking. Now this is not much different than when I did the Panny 900u against the H78. The LCD crowd can hype high contrast numbers all they want, but when it comes to just trying to keep black, black, the Darkchip3 blows them away.

Art - I really do appreciate your efforts to review projectors and applaud you attempting to clear of the haze. But this really is a concern - you are an former owner of a online projector retailer and you still have a relationship with that company; how is that your reviews are any better than the reviews that I get from my local retailer who is interested in maintaining profit margins? For example, you only feature one projector retailer ad on your website and that is website of your former company. I notice that you only review projectors that is carried by your former company and who is now your current employer. I do appreciate your efforts - but how do we as consumers know that we are not being taken for a ride from someone who has a financial interest in maintaing profit margins by selling higher priced projectors?

Sorry - I am just a guy that is trying to make a value-added purchase.

You really need to disclose your relationships with this retailer and the projector manufacturer(s); because without that your posts invites questions. :confused:

Thanks here too Art for the preliminary report. You could of course have waited until you completed your review and posted it to your website so much obliged.

As for the contrast and blacks, well now I sleep better having bypassed the wait for the Z4 and gone with the Optoma H78.

I'll be curious as how your full report shapes up on the Z4. It does sound like it's going to be an excellent choice for many folks, especially at the price. A better measure will be mano a mano with the AE900.

I'm guessing overall, the Z4 will come out ahead.

[QUOTE=presenter]Just a quicky, my Z4 eval unit arrived from Sanyo a few minutes ago.

As to the previous comments on color accuracy, the Z4 seemed pretty good out of the box, but I agree with others, that the Panny is down right superb (give or take a slightly strong yellow which is easily correctable).<<<

When I first got my Sony lcd projector more than 5 years ago, it also had excessive yellow coloring that was corrected, by my notes from that time, by adding some blue or subtracting some red from the r,g,b controls.

Is this the best way to deal with the "slightly strong yellow" or just by using the tint control?

If not, what controls are used to correct for the "yellow"?

Thanks.

Shelly

Hi Mike,

Just read Projector Central's comparison on the Z4 and H79. I guess Evan just abandoned the "holly grail" of doing good blacks and shadow detail. I'll try to chat with him later.

Since the H78DC3 and H79 are "essentially" identical, I'll have to take immediate issue with Evan's comments that put the two (Z4, H79) projectors pretty much on comparable footing.

I would no more consider my old BenQ 8700+ or the BenQ 7700 (both with HD2+ DLP chips) to be competitive with the Darkchip3 Optoma's than I would the Z4 or Panasonic.

While both the Z4 and Panny have improved significantly over the Z3 and 700u, they are now more fullly featured projectors that for the most part, are competing with HD2+ DLP's not Darkchip3.

Darkchip3 projectors (H78DC3) start at LESS than twice the selling price of these new Sanyo/Panaonic/Epson LCD models, and as much as I am initially impressed with the Z4 and the 900u, as significant improvements over the last generation, I'm not for a second considering them as something I would consider over a Darkchip3 projector.

I plan to run tonite, on my 128" firehawk, the Z4 against a pre-production BenQ 8720 (again Darkchip3) on Sin City, Men In Black II and a couple of other DVD clips.

I'll play with the Z4's fancy controls, so I expect I'll find some interesting contrast/detail aspects, but, if it is even close to the DC3 machine on most dark scenes and mixed bright and dark scences, I'll be really surprised. -art

Mike, the 900u that I have coming back in, is a different one than the first review unit, I'll let you know on the yellows. -a

I'm considering the Sanyo Z4 for use in a 20ft x 14ft room which is relatively dark. However, I would like to use the projector for watching various programming, including standard TV broadcasts (480 interlaced). As understood, the Sanyo unit doesn't handle deinterlacing and scaling of sb signals very well.

As understood, I would have to spend $1,000 minimum for an external scaler that would bypass the circuitry in the Z4 if I wanted to get decent pictures from standard broadcast TV. - This doesn't appeal to me, since other FPs, such as the Panasonic AE900, don't require such an external scaler.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to how I could get around this problem without spending the extra $1,000+? - One possible solution would be to subscribe to the local stations on Dish, although I'm not sure what format the (HD) Dish receiver signals are (interlaced or progressive). Another might be to get an OTA tuner that would do the deinterlacing and output progressive signals. - Is this a possibility, and if so, would such a unit be a high-end (expensive) one?

Thanks,
Jim Cate

This doesn't appeal to me, since other FPs, such as the Panasonic AE900, don't require such an external scaler.
Sounds to me like you just made your decision -- If you don't want to spend the $ on a scaler, and interlaced programming is important to you, then get the AE900. It's a great machine and a better match for your needs than the Z4. Keep it simple.

Let's keep the Z4 vs. DarkChip3 talk to a minimum in here. They are after all in completely different price ranges (let alone different forums).

Art ... since your Z4 has some vertical banding, I'd love to know whether or not the VB adjustment menu item actually WORKS and really removes all VB ...

:)

Just a quicky, my Z4 eval unit arrived from Sanyo a few minutes ago.

So, don't write off DLP projectors yet - certainly not the Darkchip3 units, but those older HD2+ projectors have some big time competition. (No wonder one HD2+ DLP manufacturer has lowered pricing and is throwing in a free lamp and mount.)

The Z4 looks to be an excellent product, but not without flaws. Would I recommend a Z4 over a Panny 900u, or the new Epson? No idea yet. I suspect each will have strengths.
-art


Art,

Do you have any experience yet with the new Mitsubishi HC3000 I think it is? I really want to be able to buy a $2,200 720P projector and get great black levels independent of technology. PJ Central really pused me towards one of the three LCD's you mentioned. Now I am not so sure. I guess I'll have to stick with my X1 a while longer. ;)

Greg

Sounds to me like you just made your decision -- If you don't want to spend the $ on a scaler, and interlaced programming is important to you, then get the AE900. It's a great machine and a better match for your needs than the Z4. Keep it simple.


Well, I'm considering both units. The Sanyo has several advantages, including sharpness, the adjustments for VB, ease of blowing out dust, etc. I'm also somewhat concerned with the frequency of premature lamp burnout on the Panasonic A700 (and the inability to obtain replacements), that may carry over to the A900. (The vendors say don't worry, but they certainly don't want to guarantee lamp life.)

Jim

Oh two other things that I did notice: In Creative Cinema mode the Z4 seems to have some form of edge enhancement working that created overemphasised vertical lines (part of a building) that I noticed on buildings on a NYC skyline scene. The edges went almost white as opposed to the sandy color of the rest of the building. -art


Art,

Try turning off the transient option in the menu. This has been reported to add unnatural edge enhancement to the picture. Thanks for your comments and I look forward to reading more.

Moe

Hi guys. WEll I need some advice. I was ready to pull the trigger on the Z4 but had a thought pop into my head after reading some bulb threads. Lets say my fimaly will be watching the proj. 5 Hours a da on weekdays and lets assume 8 hours a day on the weekends. Now does it make sense to get a proj after I factor in the bulb cost? I mean I can get a top of the line Sony 50" LCD RPTV for the same price and wont worry about turning on and off rapidly and the bulb wil last at least 2 years. What can you guys say about this?

If you worry about bulb life n its cost, don't get a projector. Yes, it will cost more per day than the RPTV. However, how can you measure the enjoyment you receive in watching a movie or a football game on a giant 100 or 120" screen, over the tiny 50" TV. Afterall, HT stands for Home Theater n not Home TV.

:D :D :D

Hi guys. WEll I need some advice. I was ready to pull the trigger on the Z4 but had a thought pop into my head after reading some bulb threads. Lets say my fimaly will be watching the proj. 5 Hours a da on weekdays and lets assume 8 hours a day on the weekends. Now does it make sense to get a proj after I factor in the bulb cost? I mean I can get a top of the line Sony 50" LCD RPTV for the same price and wont worry about turning on and off rapidly and the bulb wil last at least 2 years. What can you guys say about this?

For me a PJ is not meant for that heavy use. I don't NOT use mine, but I average probably ten hours a week. I can't watch THAT many movies. Many folk have a regular tv for sit-coms and the like use their PJ for movies or HD. If I were you I would buy the PJ for movies and a 27" tv for normal use.

Greg

I already have a Sony WEGA 36" SDTV though. Im worried though that once I get the Z4 that I wont want to watch TV on the Sony. Also if I do go with the Z4 Im going with an 84" screen because that just seems what I am most comfortable with viewing in my basement.

I am using a 42" plasma along side with the projector. For news broadcast n daily soap opera, use TV. For live sport event n live concert, use projector. It was a perfect combination for me, since rotating both units will add more shelf life .

true AC but I cant afford both.

Art,

Do you have any experience yet with the new Mitsubishi HC3000 I think it is? I really want to be able to buy a $2,200 720P projector and get great black levels independent of technology. PJ Central really pused me towards one of the three LCD's you mentioned. Now I am not so sure. I guess I'll have to stick with my X1 a while longer. ;)

Greg

NO word on getting a Mitsubishi for testing yet, (but hopeful). It looked good at Cedia, but nothing to really reference it against there. They tout the "Brilliant Color" technology. However, also coming out before year end is an Optoma with "Brilliant Color", and they are normally quick to send me units, but it could easily be another month. The Optoma at least, is supposedly going to sell around $2K, and therefore compete with the Z4, and 900u.

That's all I have for you now. -art
PS, it sure is fun with all these new projectors hitting the market over a 2-3 month period.

VA and PC seemingly use the same projection calc, but give different results for the Z4.

Does anyone know definately what distance is needed for a 92" diag at min zoom?

Hi guys. WEll I need some advice. I was ready to pull the trigger on the Z4 but had a thought pop into my head after reading some bulb threads. Lets say my fimaly will be watching the proj. 5 Hours a da on weekdays and lets assume 8 hours a day on the weekends. Now does it make sense to get a proj after I factor in the bulb cost? I mean I can get a top of the line Sony 50" LCD RPTV for the same price and wont worry about turning on and off rapidly and the bulb wil last at least 2 years. What can you guys say about this?

I think a lot of folks on the forum use the new bulb cost as an excuse to go ahead and get a new projector every year as the new models come out. :)
"If the buld costs that much, heck I might as well get a new projector!" :p

Regarding bulbs and large screen TV's. Seems the DLP and LCD Big Screens typically have 8000 hour lamps vs 2000 - 3000. However, (and I could be wrong) I seem to recall that, at least the older traditional big screen TVs power consumption was over 500watts. If true with the LCD/DLP big screens, then your electric bill would be double (most projectors draw 200- 250 watts, in fulll power, and less in various economy modes. If the RPTV draws 500 watts, then (at California rates) you are paying about $.09 an hour for the electric. You'll still have a lamp replacement cost, and you'll be watching a tiny little 50" screen, and 50" will not give you a "theater effect".

You might want to look at it, on a basis of cost per view. If you have a 2000 hour lamp, and it sells for $400. Then, that's $.20 an hour. A two hour movie is $.40.

You can watch a dozen movies for the price of a medium popcorn at the movies.

Better still, lump the costs in with your cable or satellite bill. You're probably spending at least $50 a month, whereas, as a heavy user of a projector (your 40 hours a week), you need one lamp a year, which is only $40 a month.

So considering the cost of cable/satellite, and electric, lamps, etc. It comes down to, if you want the theater feel, it may cost you a bit more, but it really isn't significant.

true AC but I cant afford both.

I thought you said you already have the Wega.

Check out my first impression review of my Z4! ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=599443

Okay. According to the screen calclulator on Projector Central, a 100" diagonal 16x9 screen with 1.0 gain is too small for the Z-4. Which is what I have (Stewart Greyhawk). Anyone here using a Z-4 with this size and type of screen? If so, do you have problems with it being too bright? I don't think I would have ever considered a FP being "too bright". ;)

Art - I really do appreciate your efforts to review projectors and applaud you attempting to clear of the haze. But this really is a concern - you are an former owner of a online projector retailer and you still have a relationship with that company; how is that your reviews are any better than the reviews that I get from my local retailer who is interested in maintaining profit margins? For example, you only feature one projector retailer ad on your website and that is website of your former company. I notice that you only review projectors that is carried by your former company and who is now your current employer. I do appreciate your efforts - but how do we as consumers know that we are not being taken for a ride from someone who has a financial interest in maintaing profit margins by selling higher priced projectors?

Sorry - I am just a guy that is trying to make a value-added purchase.

You really need to disclose your relationships with this retailer and the projector manufacturer(s); because without that your posts invites questions. :confused:

Greetings Sailor06,

I'll address your statements in no particular order, but hopefully it will answer your concerns.

Here we go again, First, my affiliation with the dealership that I used to own (back in 2001) is disclosed in my profile, for everyone to read, as it has been for probably 6 months. I can't mention the dealer in the thread, violation of rules. (AND I NEVER DO Mention them.).

Next "How are my reviews any better...than my local retailer".... That depends, if your local retailer is good, and has access to all the products to review that I do, then, there probably is no advantage, and you don't need me, or the forum, you've got your own expert, and I'm just one of a 1000 other opinions online.

"only feature one advertiser on your site" Obviously you haven't visited my site in many many months, because you are completely wrong. Advertising on my site, is extensive, both from manufacturers and top online dealers, you will see banners for brands like Panasonic, Optoma, BenQ, etc, etc., as well as banners pointing to at least 3-4 AVS Alliance members (and again, I can't mention names). Just spend 5 minutes on my site, visit perhaps 10-12 pages, and you will see ads for at least a half dozen companies. And that doesn't even count the Google ads, which make up a siginificant portion of my advertising revenues.

When I really "launched" the site back at the beginning of this year, I had virtually no traffic, and the banners initially were all for that dealer, and my revenues were a couple hundred $ a month, not even enough to go pitch dealers to advertise. Now I actively solicit banner advertising from major dealers and manufacturers - no different than any other review site. The "dealer" whose affiliation you worry about, isn't even my first or 2nd revenue generator.

BTW like most online dealers, the one in question carries just about every major line of projectors that can be sold online, be it InFocus Screenplay, Optoma, BenQ, Sanyo, Mitsubishi, etc.

Read my reviews for their content. If people find that I'm making things up, my credibility gets shot. No upside for me, or any company. And a big downside, since significant AVS readers visit my site, and they click on dealer and manufacturer ads, and that's where most of my income comes from.

As to only reviewing projectors that "the dealer" sells. Untrue. But at the same time, since they sell most of the most popular projectors, most of the reviews I post are available from them, or almost EVERY OTHER online HT reseller. I am hoping for review units from Sim2, Sony and others, that they don't deal with, and they will be reviewed fairly.

Some companies make it easy for me to get review units (I don't exactly have Projector Central's clout you know), others, just tell me I'm way down in the queue, and have to wait. I was first guy on the block to have a Panny 900u, but Sanyo, by comparison, which I had expected a Z4 unit a month ago, just got me one, etc. BenQ and Optoma are normally also anxious to get me projectors, which is why I recently reviewed a pre-production BenQ 8720, and have been working with their product managers and engineers to "fix a few things". I am trying to get a Sony VW100 for review, but my inquiries at Cedia have gotten no response as of yet.

But there are a finite number of $2000 or $1000 projectors out there. Manufacturer's allowing, I'll get to them all.

Please remember that online resellers work on very tight margins, most of the larger ones, sell hundreds of projectors a month, making a couple hundred or so on each (less on the $1K machines) and a few hundred on the $4K up machines. If my affiliation brought a dealer a couple extra machines a month (and I don't see how it could, since visitors to my site would just see a whole bunch of different dealer ads), it wouldn't even show up on that dealer's radar.

Beyond that, all review sites (except for of course consumer reports) live off of some form of advertising. So, for perfect "free of conflict of interest", pick up the Nov. copy of Consumers, and buy the projector they recommmend. Since they are inherently unbiased, they must be right?

Hope that helps - BTW, if anyone does have a good contact at Sony, so I can get a VW100 for review, drop me a email (It would be much appreciated).

That said, you suggest, possibly that I am favoring more expensive projectors, so dealers (or dealer) can make more money. Consider, instead, that I favor more expensive projectors, if they are better than cheaper ones. (Usually the case, otherwise people don't buy them).

And that gets back to LCD vs DLP. And my point on this and the 900u thread these last few days, is that contrary to some reviews from another source, I do not believe (so far) that the new generation of $2K LCD projectors is the equal to the DLP's featuring the Darkchip3. I do, agree however that these new low cost 720p LCD projectors are definitely on a level playing field with HD2+ DLP models, by virtue of comparable image quality (different but comparable), more features, and being mostly 6 months to a year newer. Of course we will be seeing a new generation of low cost 720p DLP's rolling out over the next 1-3 months including models from InFocus, Optoma and others.

Hope everyone's happy. Check out the prelim Z4 review on my site, late Sunday night or Monday on the Z4, but the review will grow over the following week or so, as I post more images and have more impressions. I also plan to do a Z4 vs 900u comparison, or a 3 way with the Epson 550 if I can get my hands on one of those asap.

Then hopefully next month I'll be able to get the new DLP's: Mitsubishi with "BrilliantColor" and the rumored (or at least unannounced) Optoma, also with BrilliantColor".

I will say this, reviewing projectors (and watching them), sure is a lot more fun than selling them. -art

Next?

I think a lot of folks on the forum use the new bulb cost as an excuse to go ahead and get a new projector every year as the new models come out. :)
"If the buld costs that much, heck I might as well get a new projector!" :p

Yeah. Whenever I look at a projector I automatically figure in the cost of a second bulb and consider that to be the actual price. With any flat panel or rear projection unit you're probably looking at a much more reliable and longer lasting light source. It's not always the rule but in my experience with each I find projector bulbs to be one of the biggest drawbacks.

Next?

When you do review Z4 ... can you check if the SDE is worse / better than an older XGA DLP. I've a Dell 3200 which is overdue for an upgrade ...

Regarding bulbs and large screen TV's. Seems the DLP and LCD Big Screens typically have 8000 hour lamps vs 2000 - 3000. However, (and I could be wrong) I seem to recall that, at least the older traditional big screen TVs power consumption was over 500watts. If true with the LCD/DLP big screens, then your electric bill would be double (most projectors draw 200- 250 watts, in fulll power, and less in various economy modes.

My 50" Samsung DLP is 230 watts. I know becasue I am 'off the grid' and need to watch my power consumption. Unfortunately, my home theatre bug doesn't always play nice with my alternative power bug. :p
I use the Samsung for day to day viewing and just use the built in audio. No amp, no surround.
For the projector room, it's another deal. The projector is low power consumption, but then you throw in the receiver, sub-woofer, etc and it bypasses the conventional TV quickly. In fact, the only thing louder than the fan on my 4805 is the generator kicking in to power the system. :p
I honestly considered the AE900 over the Z4 just because it was lower power consumption... but then I got over it... ;)
At least the Z4 is lower power than the 4805... but higher lumens... not sure how that works... anybody?

Thanks guys. I just ordered my Z4!!!

Now can someone help me pick a fixed screen for a light-controlled room with no ambient light. I need an 86" in the $400-$500 range. Cant really find much in the screen forums.

Regarding bulbs and large screen TV's. Seems the DLP and LCD Big Screens typically have 8000 hour lamps vs 2000 - 3000. However, (and I could be wrong) I seem to recall that, at least the older traditional big screen TVs power consumption was over 500watts. If true with the LCD/DLP big screens, then your electric bill would be double (most projectors draw 200- 250 watts, in fulll power, and less in various economy modes. If the RPTV draws 500 watts, then (at California rates) you are paying about $.09 an hour for the electric. You'll still have a lamp replacement cost, and you'll be watching a tiny little 50" screen, and 50" will not give you a "theater effect".

You might want to look at it, on a basis of cost per view. If you have a 2000 hour lamp, and it sells for $400. Then, that's $.20 an hour. A two hour movie is $.40.

You can watch a dozen movies for the price of a medium popcorn at the movies.

Better still, lump the costs in with your cable or satellite bill. You're probably spending at least $50 a month, whereas, as a heavy user of a projector (your 40 hours a week), you need one lamp a year, which is only $40 a month.

So considering the cost of cable/satellite, and electric, lamps, etc. It comes down to, if you want the theater feel, it may cost you a bit more, but it really isn't significant.

If the cost of a replacement bulb is an issue, you probably need to reconsider purchasing something that requires less maintenance. This will be my first projector, but I have already resigned myself to dropping $.50 into a jar every time I watch a movie. If the bulb lasts as long as it should, I should have more than enough to buy a new bulb... and maybe even a couple pizzas and beer to celebrate the new, fresh bulb. :-)

Does anyone know the screw size needed for ceiling mounting the Z4? I can't find it anywhere in the manual or on the Sanyo website. I can see that they are much larger than my 4805 mounting holes though.

Just in case anyone else wanted to know, the mounting holes use M6 screws.

I got my PLV Z4 few hours ago and happy to report that no VB no dirty screen syndrome :) and trust me I know how it looks. I have posted some green screenshots in the past at 700 thread :mad: after bad vb experience with Panasonic 700 I am very happy. :) Watching HD ESPN college game now on a wall connected to d*tv dvr HR 10-250 using hdmi and no Vb on green background. Regular channels also look a lot better. 13 feet from 9 feet wide screen and SDE does not bother me. I will take down 700 and mount sanyo now. I got 6mm bolts and plastic spacers from HD.

Thanks
DrA

Thanks guys. I just ordered my Z4!!!

Now can someone help me pick a fixed screen for a light-controlled room with no ambient light. I need an 86" in the $400-$500 range. Cant really find much in the screen forums.

What are your room dimensions and seating distance of the primary viewiing position?

If you can fit it in there, I suggest you go with a larger screen.

Screens seem big at first.

However, like boats, motorcycles, guns, etc. they seem to shrink after you get used to them.

I've seen numerous posts from individuals that moved to larger screens. Can only remember one poster who went to a smaller screen.

You can always mask down a screen if it's too large. If it's too small, gotta buy another one.

If in doubt whatsoever, err on the large size _grin_

Call AVS, they gave me a great recommendation and great price -

Regards

Ken L

Thanks guys. I just ordered my Z4!!!

Now can someone help me pick a fixed screen for a light-controlled room with no ambient light. I need an 86" in the $400-$500 range. Cant really find much in the screen forums.


I would go to at least a 92" screen and more than likely a 106". Your new Z4 is plenty bright and just imagine a screen two feet bigger than you are planning on. For pulldown models look at the ones sold my Optoma. They are priced well and many people are happy. You can see them at their website.

Personally, I will buy Da-Lite HCCV (light grey color) fabric for about less than $300 and make my own screen when I get my new PJ in early 2006. The one I have now is made out of blackout cloth that I stapled to a wooden frame made of 1 x 4's. It was half a day's project and well worth the effort. For $300 you can get real screen material and with a little effort, a dynamite projection surface.

Greg

Well I got my Z4 yesterday and have finally dragged myself away long enough to share my first impressions. Wow, this is an improvement over my Z2. The immediate impression is better blacks and contrast really do make a difference. Dark scenes and shadows are much more detailed. The upgrade is worth it for me.

I next noticed this pj is just plain brighter than the Z2 and I am not just talking about new bulb brightness. Been there seen that. Sharpness is about the same as the Z2, and SDE maybe a tad less and for me not a problem. Colors really pop but perhaps too much out of the box ( I am using component inputs from ota stb, C band 4dtv, and Sony progressive DVD sing creative cinema which seemed most natural of the top). My first and so far only tweak was turning color down to -4 which alone helped flesh tones and overall look, but more work needed here. Hope I can figure out how this color managment works. This baby has so many ways to be tweaked I am going to wait a few days, see what more knowledgeable tweakers are doing, and just play with various functions so I understand them better before seriously pulling out the AVIA disc.

Next was what I didn't notice, a "what's wrong (or right) with this picture" moment. Then I realized with some help from my wife that there was no noticeable fan noise (A2 light level). Had to get real close to tell it was on. This is a real nice imporvement and scored needed points with the wife. Now I finally know what women want, er...regarding projectors anyway...they want to not notice them, which is hard to pull off with a whirring fan and a 106" screen. Sanyo at least made the sound not noticeable. Thank you Sanyo...I need all the help I can get. Well, I have to get back to my movies for now. Must remember to remind the wife how quiet it is someday when the bill for a new bulb comes in....

SDE maybe a tad less and for me not a problem. .

Harmil, how far are you sitting back from your screen and what size screen?

Just hooked up the new Z4 last night (Z3 replacement).

Excellent first impression. Big leaps in contrast and resultant depth of image is amazing. Very sharp and detailed image. The Z4 seems a very robust unit.

Hi-Def image via HDMI from Tivo HR10-250 720p output was excellent as expected.

First DVD viewed via HDMI from Pioneer 59avi was Star Wars III. Outstanding. I watched this movie two days prior on the Z3 and it was a whole new experience on the Z4. I couldn't take my eyes off the depth, detail and color.

The Z3 is an excellent and very enjoyable projector, but it is easy to see the Z4 is a new generation of image quality.

Almost no time spent tweaking yet. Started with Creative Cinema setting and opened the lens iris to 32 as I use an 80" Carada High Contrast gray screen. (a first thing to do however is turn of the 'transient' sharpness adjustment.)

leedees, did you find the delay on the lamp iris distracting when in auto mode? How does the image look with the lens iris in one of the fixed modes (open or closed)? Does it produce good blacks?

leedees, did you find the delay on the lamp iris distracting when in auto mode? How does the image look with the lens iris in one of the fixed modes (open or closed)? Does it produce good blacks?

I've read comments about this but I have not noticed the auto lamp iris delay, however I have not logged much time viewing. As you're no doubt aware, the longer you own a projector the more adept you become at noticing its strengths and weaknesses.

Blacks looked very good to me.

I did notice a curious thing when switching hdmi video sources that it can take several minutes for the auto lamp iris to adapt to the new input. I thought this very curious and plan to learn more about it. I will post whatever I learn.

Jay,

I am sitting 15' back from a diy 106" b/o cloth screen. Room has dark walls and white ceiling. Projector is ceiling mounted about 14" from screen. Light control is great except for the darn ceiling.

I also should mention that my dealer in Portland hooked it up as I requested at the store. He was able to detect very light vb. I frankly had trouble seeing it until he pointed it out. Very minor. He played with I believe the panel adjustment menu and was able to take it out. I appreciated his resolving before I headed home with the pj. I do see just a bit more noise with the D5 panels even with the reported Sanyo noise reduction. If other D5s have much more it might bother me even if I was not 15' from the screen.

Just a quick mention that the screen we previewed on at the shop was a very white da-lite. I took mental note as best one can to compare with my b/o cloth screen. When I got home and fired her up the picture seemed just as good on my screen. Wish I could do an A to B comparison. I think I would have to get a very good and expensive screen to beat what I have now. Unfortunately I need to get one that rolls up for new media room so I will be studying screen threads.

I suspect from reading posts that the Pany 900 may have truer colors out of the box. Sanyo is just slightly yellow enough that I notice it and maybe that is what keeps the flesh tones from being as good as I would like. I will be trying to take that out as I get comfortable with the many tweaks and study other's settings and comments here. That said I think the lens shift was great on the Z2 and a tad better on the Z4. Control a bit tighter and I love the lock. The sliding door is very high tech and kool, but I wonder how necessary. Maybe if I was setting it up in a dusty smokey bar. I like the remote and menu changes since the Z2. Just have to get my thumb reflexes use to the few changes.

[QUOTE=harmil2]Jay,

I am sitting 15' back from a diy 106" b/o cloth screen. [QUOTE]
You're way back there - if my math is correct about 2x width given 106" diagonal or around 92" wide (I'm assuming you are referring to diagonal as not stated otherwise). So clearly SDE will not be an issue for you. At what point do you see it pop out if you walk closer?

I agree with you that the auto-shutter is probably pretty gimmicky overall - something else to potentially go wrong. But all homes have dust and if it reduces the times you need to clean the lens then it's good. I don't see myself using a manual lens cover. The downside, I would suspect, is that it precludes you from using something like the Cygnus optical filter. If I understand that product it's a pretty substantial housing that I would see getting in the way of the lens. Likewise I wonder if there's enough room to allow for filters for those so inclined.

I think I read (can't find it) that some filters have room. I have not used filters so rather ignorant on the subject. I don't notice sde even a few feet closer unless scene has a lot of white such as snow. Winter Olympics will probably bear this out. I think there are real differences in how each person's brain seems to look for or ignore sde. I have to remember to look for it...then once in a while I can see it. Some folks just seem to lock on to sde and it really bothers them. A bit like dlp rainbow effect I suspect. Hope you have a good dealer nearby so you can check out your tolerance for z4 sde.

I just got my Z4 yesterday and was throwing a beautiful 6 foot tall picture on my living room wall. My wife walked in while a bright Finding Nemo chapter was playing and I think it took her by suprise how vivid and bright the image was - on craptacular "builder's white" with zero tweaking.

The H and V lens adjustment and zoom are a snap to use and I really really liked how quiet the unit is.

Now, I just have to finish insulating, wiring, drywalling, painting, etc, etc, my theater!! But you can bet your bottom dollar it's be done in time for the Big Game in Detroit.

E - A - G - L - E - S... EAGLES!!!

- T

BTW - The Birds better get their collective heads outta their asses or start thinking "wildcard".

Guys i have messed up bigtime and went into the service menu i didnt write down the settings now the picture looks terrible and unbelivably there is no reset to default option that i can see if someone has gone into service menu and could give me all the defaults (there seems to be alot) or mabye a way to reset in the normal menu i reset to factory but this does not help otherwise i will have to send to sanyo for service please help so what i would need is settings for data on every group and then no the data settings for each i hope someone out there can help

I received my Z4 on Friday and WOW! A jaw dropping picture. I use a Pioneer 59avi dvd player that upconverts all my dvd's via HDMI to 720p and a Sony Hd300 Directv receiver that upconverts all my satellite via component 720p and all my other home theater gear is run through my Yamaha RX-Z9 receiver that upconverts everything connected to it via component to 720p and all I can say is WOW. Did I say how great this thing looks on my Carada 126" brilliant white screen. I sit 15' back and its clear as day. Now some regular Directv channels show compression as they on my 65" ISF Mits tv but all my hidef channels and dvd's ROCK. I must say this thing is a tweekers dream. There are tons of adjustments one can make with this projector. I tried the tweek adjustments per ROne on this site and the colors look much more vibrant. It looks pretty good out of the box. I hope others with the right equipment will continue to tweek this projector to its max potential.
I see zero SDE which I'm sitting right at the 1.5x distance rule. So yes this can project great images at this size. The only thing strange and this may be normal for projectors since this is my first one is that all four sides of the image when zoomed down to the smallest pic possible or at my screen size the top left corner of the image is not exactly square in the corner. Just a slight curve downward. What I mean is if you look at the image and its four corners all three look perfectly square on the corners and the lines are level except this one corner has a very slight curve to it. Its mostly noticeable on 2:35 dvd's because the top black line is not perfectly straight vs the bottom. Which in my old days of crts' this was called geometry and could be quickly adjusted in the service menu. There is no such thing as geometry adjustment for projectors with LCD and DLP is there? It should be perfect all the time?
If anyone would comment I would appreciate it. This picture is very sharp even at this size. I would immediately disable the transient feature in the advance menu options as it adds huge edge enhancement to the picture. Once its off the picture is smooth. I will never go back to a 65" Rear projection tv again. The next upgrade will be a 1080p projector in a couple years. I love my Carada screen. If your a first time screen buyer I suggest you give them a try. Great company to do business with.

I received my Z4 on Friday and WOW! A jaw dropping picture. I use a Pioneer 59avi dvd player that upconverts all my dvd's via HDMI to 720p and a Sony Hd300 Directv receiver that upconverts all my satellite via component 720p and all my other home theater gear is run through my Yamaha RX-Z9 receiver that upconverts everything connected to it via component to 720p and all I can say is WOW. Did I say how great this thing looks on my Carada 126" brilliant white screen. I sit 15' back and its clear as day. Now some regular Directv channels show compression as they on my 65" ISF Mits tv but all my hidef channels and dvd's ROCK. I must say this thing is a tweekers dream. There are tons of adjustments one can make with this projector. I tried the tweek adjustments per ROne on this site and the colors look much more vibrant. It looks pretty good out of the box. I hope others with the right equipment will continue to tweek this projector to its max potential.
I see zero SDE which I'm sitting right at the 1.5x distance rule. So yes this can project great images at this size. The only thing strange and this may be normal for projectors since this is my first one is that all four sides of the image when zoomed down to the smallest pic possible or at my screen size the top left corner of the image is not exactly square in the corner. Just a slight curve downward. What I mean is if you look at the image and its four corners all three look perfectly square on the corners and the lines are level except this one corner has a very slight curve to it. Its mostly noticeable on 2:35 dvd's because the top black line is not perfectly straight vs the bottom. Which in my old days of crts' this was called geometry and could be quickly adjusted in the service menu. There is no such thing as geometry adjustment for projectors with LCD and DLP is there? It should be perfect all the time?
If anyone would comment I would appreciate it. This picture is very sharp even at this size. I would immediately disable the transient feature in the advance menu options as it adds huge edge enhancement to the picture. Once its off the picture is smooth. I will never go back to a 65" Rear projection tv again. The next upgrade will be a 1080p projector in a couple years. I love my Carada screen. If your a first time screen buyer I suggest you give them a try. Great company to do business with.


It seems to me that your projector face (lens) is not squared up with the screen. It must be on a parallel plane both vertical and horizontal. It can take a fair bit of trial and error to get it right but you'll likely fix the problem this way.

Very exciting to see people getting their projectors. I'm getting mine on Wed. Im probably getting something in the 80" size ebcause I was at bestbuy and thought that a 92" was too big for a 10-13' distance. Especially for sports my eyes would be scanning the screen.
Also (Im going to post another thread but) does any1 know how I can tell if my pj will have VB? This is my first projector and I have 7 days to return it after I recieve it. I just want to make sure that I can eliminate or not have VB at all on my pj before I decide to keep it. If not I would still be able to exchange it.

i will have to send to sanyo for service
That may void your warranty if they find out you've been poking around.

That may void your warranty if they find out you've been poking around.

We all know about warranty shwarranty, the guy is asking for the numbers. If you have the projector, post the numbers instead of scaring the guy.
I would post the numbers, but mine also shows 0s after "poking around."

thanks guys i know its alot to ask and time consuming as there are many numbers in there i might buy the service manual if i have to that should fix it if i set everything to default as in the manual settings?

Anyone upgrade from the Z2? I like the Z2 except for the black levels. I'm currently on the list for the power buy for the Ruby but my long standing girl friend is giving me hell about spending that much. Does the Z4 jump much in the black level department over the Z2? I know the 900u has better black level but I hate the smooth screen tech and panasonic in general (bad 300u and 500u experiences). I have a panamorph and that is all the smooth screen effect I need. I'm also thinking about the HS60 when that comes out. At this point in time I'm more concerned with black level over contrast ratio. I tried to watch unbreakable friday and I had to turn it off because of the terrible black level. Seems all my favorite movies are dark one :) I'm considering jumping to DLP but all the nice affordable optima models have a recessed lens that might not work well with the panamorph, not to mention a lack of full lens shift.

I'm planing on upgrading also and wonder if I should go with a z3 or z4.
I currently have a Infocus X1 and have been happy with it.
Is the Z3 or Z4 a massive improvement over the X1? I'd hate to spend this
kind of cash to only have a slight improvement.

Thanks

We all know about warranty shwarranty, the guy is asking for the numbers. If you have the projector, post the numbers instead of scaring the guy.
I would post the numbers, but mine also shows 0s after "poking around."
Ease up "Doc" - I don't have a Z4, am only following this thread to make a purchase decision. If I had the information he requested I would have provided it without pause. And the comment re: warranty was not to "scare" him - it's a valid concern any time you visit service areas designed for technician use.

Can some1 please tell me if the image quality will be good if I feed it 480p from my panny DVD player through component? Thats what I wil have for a while I need to know if the chip in the Z4 is good at upscaling. What can I expect?

*EDIT* Also can some1 please answer my previous question about VB? Im getting my proj. soon and want to know tif I can fix the VB if it has any before my return policy runs out.

Check my earlier posts from 11-5 if you haven't yet. Component inputs from Progressive sony DVD and STB are terrific on my Z4 (no hdmi yet). Slight VB was easily fixed by dealer in Panel adj. before I took it home. Deinterlacer is mediocre as reported for SD. This is a High Def wonder machine.

warning to anyone thinking of adjusting the settings in the service menu this is not for beginners and can be messed up very easily and there is no way to reset it to default even if you get the default settings from a service manual apparently no two z4's are there same as their is a margin of 10% difference so basically its very hard to get back to its original setting and the only way or so i have been told im sending it to sanyo which it may or may not be covered under warranty(my fault for using the service menu) and could be up to five hours( its hard to estimate) to fix the settings and if they cant fix it apparently the only way is to replace the motherboard. yes not the chip with the settings as apparently this cant be done due to pixel works scaler and the mother board costs $3000 (i honestly dont know if he is spinning ******** or not) so ill let you know how i go i hope they can just set it back through the service menu but this may end up being a very costly lesson

I can't believe any company would create a product where some simple menu choices could force one to replace a mother board. That sounds like someone is slinging you a chunk of crapola. And I can't believe there is no "restore factory defaults". I've bought countless musical electronics over the past 15 years and
have never seen a product without a 'reset factory' option. Sometimes you might
need to turn the power on while holding a button, etc... But it must be there
somewhere. If not that is a major oversight by Sanyo....

well yes in the regular menu it has reset to factory however this has no effect on service menu settings my last benq projector i could reset in the service menu easily the problem with the z4 is everything is codes and numbers and you actually need the service manual to have any idea of what you are changing i will look through this z3 service manual tonight but so far im quite disapointed the projector tech basically said "there is no service menu reset to default" and coem to think of it the z3 service manual says nothing about resetting it

Greetings all,

My preliminary Z4 projector review is now posted. It's still missing a few images (like the remote control, and menu shots), and I'm sure, in the rush that there are typos and some grammer issues, but, the content is almost all there.

I will continue to polish it, and also have a Z4 vs 900u comparison review up over the course of this week.

Hope you find it useful. (I'm saving my opinion as to which one I prefer - for the comparison article). BTW, I'm putting the same posting on the Panasonic AE900u thread. -art

I know about the problem with screendoor effect when sitting too close to the screen. But when scaling to 720p will this effect not be difficult to spot?

Greetings all,

My preliminary Z4 projector review is now posted.

Thx Art for your review, helpful for my decision!
What is your opinion about the dynamic iris on the Z4, is it really an issue or not?

I will continue to polish it, and also have a Z4 vs 900u comparison review up over the course of this week.

I read it and am confused by one thing:
QuickTip: The competing Panasonic PT-AE900u also increased its high quality inputs by one. It has 2 HDMI and one component input, instead of the Sanyo's 2 component and one HDMI. Which will serve you better? Probably not an issue, but if you have mulitiple digital devices (DVD, + Cable or Satellite box) and your receiver doesn't switch digital, then the Panasonic could have an advantage for you. (Consult that knowledgeable dealer you plan to buy from).

They both seem to have 1 HDMI and 2 component inputs from the photos. Am I missing something?

Hope you find it useful. (I'm saving my opinion as to which one I prefer - for the comparison article). BTW, I'm putting the same posting on the Panasonic AE900u thread. -art

Art - Great article. I do appreciate your sensitivity and balance in handling all of your professional responsibilities and giving us consumers an reliable source for information on completing products and technologies. I am looking forward in reading your thoughts in the upcoming comparsion article. Again, I am totally impressed with your very detailed and well-written appraisal, clearly one the best reviews that I read on any product. Your focus on "real world" performance is right on. And, I do wish that you will be able to review the Sony HS-60/61 when it becomes available.

Hope that you were not offended by my previous inquiry; just trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. You are clearly one of the good guys. :)

Art,

Read the review. First a comment, your posted screenshots, they are quite small to make out any details, any chance you can blow them up a bit?

What settings do you use on your camera to take those photographs?

thx
Seb

Art,
What a wonderful, insightful review. Your objective comparison is invaluable. Thank you.

Regards

Amir

[QUOTE=leedees]It seems to me that your projector face (lens) is not squared up with the screen. It must be on a parallel plane both vertical and horizontal. It can take a fair bit of trial and error to get it right but you'll likely fix the problem this way.[/QU

Leedees - Thanks you were right. I did not have the projector squared to the screen and after I moved it a small bit the entire screen is square now.

Thanks again

Thanks for the great review Art. I agree with Seb that it would nice to be able to click on the images to see higher resolutions of them.
For the images with the orange "D", is there a review of a DLP with the same shot ?

So it confirms that the perceived better sharpness of the Z4 is due to image processing (scaling, sharpening, ...), specially with 480p upscaling, and not due to better optics or softening on the AE900 because of the smooth screen.
For HD or externally upscaled material, looks like there isn't much of a sharpness difference.
I can't wait for the comparison review :-)

I know about the problem with screendoor effect when sitting too close to the screen. But when scaling to 720p will this effect not be difficult to spot?

I upconvert all my components to 720p to the Z4 and no screen door at 1.5x seating distance. One has to really get close to the screen to see it. A great projector! Best toy I bought in a long time.

Guys can any1 post a pic or something where I can see what VB looks like so when I get my proj. I will know if I should exchange it or not? I have a 7 day return policy dont want to waste time. I also have no idea how to use the service menu to remove VB if I do have it so I want to make sure that I can fix it if its there and if not so I can get an exchange. Thanks.

I found Art's review to parallel the experience I had yesterday when opening up the projector and tossing it up on a wall. I think we should take the comments with some reservation. He mentioned leaving some things at default while we know out of the box the Z4 needs tweaking. I think though in terms of out of the box perfromance he has it about right. The AE900 is going to give you much better performance right away. I think though as we have seen in some reviews that tweaked performance the Z4 overtakes the AE900 in some areas as the projector is very tweakable.

Guys can any1 post a pic or something where I can see what VB looks like so when I get my proj. I will know if I should exchange it or not? I have a 7 day return policy dont want to waste time. I also have no idea how to use the service menu to remove VB if I do have it so I want to make sure that I can fix it if its there and if not so I can get an exchange. Thanks.
It's pretty unmistakable in appearance. You'll see it most in flat midtones. It appears as a series of faint parallel stripes running vertically or slightly diagonal across the screen. They appear to move as well, like interference on a TV. No need to worry about service menu access on the Z4. Looking at their user manual it is located within the standard user menus. It's pretty well documented how to use it. It's great to have that return policy but from what I've read the menu adjustment is a snap and works as advertised - you would likely be able to address this yourself much more quickly then repacking and going back to your dealer. I would suggest try this adjustment first and return if it is not effective.

I have to agree with Dusk as I've been following the Z4 tweak threads. The colour management menu allows to adjust the colours and people have found that you can get real skin tones without much work. ROne provides some great settings also in the Living mode of the Z4.

Art, try turning off edge enhancement and maybe you will get a better feel for the sharpness of the PJ in your comparison shootout. Plus dont forget, the iris can be adjusted to get more lumens.

Seb

Greetings Dusk,

I will be "tweaking" the unit a bit, but my comparison article vs the Panny will have some pre and post "tweaking".

Please remember, most of you who post on the forum (at least compared to the vast majority that simply read the posts), are "the exception ... not the rule". The typical buyer of a $2000ish HT projector, uses a receiver, and maybe, just maybe, will buy a basic calibration disk. Most will treat it like any new tv. Plug it in and turn it on, and try pushing a few buttons. Mostly they will stick to the presets.

I try to write for the typical buyer. The forum is great for those who plan to get every last ounce of performance out of a projector, but that is not 98% of buyers of $2K projectors.

Still, I hope everyone finds something useful. (I included closeups of pixel structures between the Z4 and AE900u because I have had a number of requests from forum people.) -art

I believe novice projector buyers will get the Panasonic anyway based on manufacturer name recognition.

Greetings JSNorth,

Agreed, tweaking the color is easy enough (to cover most of the difference between "out of box" and "almost perfect" (Z4), certainly true for those with an eye for color. As to sharpness, yes I will continue to play with settings. Problem with these PJs is that there are almost an infinite number of settings, it would take a tremendous amount of time to figure out all the best combinations of settings for each source.

All that "playing" with settings, is great for those who purchase a projector, but there are limits to the time a reviewer can spend on one review (ie I have already invested 15-20 hours on the Z4). Doing what I can to help.

I just want to repeat. These projectors really do perform excellently. Few will be dissapointed with the out of box settings, and most will simply be "blown away", which is exactly what many of you have said upon receiving your new 900u and Z4 projectors.

BTW, for those trying to decide between one of the $2000+ LCD HT's and the more expensive Darkchip3 DLPs, I will also be producing some commentary and screen shot comparisons between either the 900u and the Optoma H78DC3, or the Z4 and the Optoma. -art

I just have to say that I agree with Art re tweaking. Although I hang out in this forum a lot, and consider myself an enthusiast, I have little feel for tweaking. Often after following directions as closely as I can, I find myself confused and dissapointed - I don't trust my own eyes. Being a long time RP-CRT user, and one who used to have Greg Loewen come to my houes annually to calibrate my set, my eye can "see" a proper picture and I can often pick up what's wrong color wise in a image, but when it comes to the actual test patterns, etc, I'm a bumbling fool. I am a scientist and consider myself fairly technically savy (all of the stuff that I do is on my own), but there are those of us who simply do want to plug and go - and we are still enthusiasts. Thanks Art for taking we (the apparently silent majority in this forum) into account during your reviews - how the unit looks OOTB is important for many of us, even in this forum.

I just have to say that I agree with Art re tweaking. Although I hang out in this forum a lot, and consider myself an enthusiast, I have little feel for tweaking. Often after following directions as closely as I can, I find myself confused and dissapointed - I don't trust my own eyes. Being a long time RP-CRT user, and one who used to have Greg Loewen come to my houes annually to calibrate my set, my eye can "see" a proper picture and I can often pick up what's wrong color wise in a image, but when it comes to the actual test patterns, etc, I'm a bumbling fool. I am a scientist and consider myself fairly technically savy (all of the stuff that I do is on my own), but there are those of us who simply do want to plug and go - and we are still enthusiasts. Thanks Art for taking we (the apparently silent majority in this forum) into account during your reviews - how the unit looks OOTB is important for many of us, even in this forum.

Then I think far and away the 900 is what "out of the box only" users will be most happy with. The Z4 is only "OK" out of the box. For non-tweakers, there are way too many settings I believe are required to optimize the picture.

What is the best "Electric Wall and Ceiling Screen" for plv-z4 within $500-$600 range?

Thanks Jay. How will I be able to tell the difference between the SDE and and VB? I went to BB and they had the 4805 there and I saw the SDE when I came close (pixels line up in columns right?). It seems that VB will look the same?

Madpoet...holding off your comments? Curious to read your thoughts.

How will I be able to tell the difference between the SDE and and VB?
Completely different. VB is an image artifact that you can do differing degrees adjust, or might not have at all depending on the projector. SDE is from the physical structure of the LCD chips, the gap between the individual pixels where no image information is presented. The Panasonic has something called Smooth Screen which somehow smooths the transition between the pixels generating a smoother image. DLP on the other hand has a smaller gap between the individual pixels so there is a higher fill factor (ie. more space occupied by image than inter-pixel gaps) and thus less screen door. The Z4 doesn't have the Panny's smoothing technology and you see the raw image structure, but only up to a certain distance. As you get closer you'll see the physical grid, just like you were looking through a screen door.

When trying to adjust black level using the AVIA disk through my HDMI port, I never see the moving grey bars. I see them when adjusting it for my component input though. I tried both the L1 and L2 settings and neither one show them. Anyone else experience this?

Very exciting to see people getting their projectors. I'm getting mine on Wed. Im probably getting something in the 80" size ebcause I was at bestbuy and thought that a 92" was too big for a 10-13' distance. Especially for sports my eyes would be scanning the screen.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Best Buy have a 15% restocking fee on projectors? I've been debating about this projector and was going to try one out from them until I saw the restock fee. That's a pretty hefty fee on a $3000 plus item.

Art,

I know that your reviews are geared to out of the box/non tweakers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should change your review style. Although, and only from the screenshots on your Z4 review, it seems the Z4 is visually darker than the AE900. But, can't that be solved via iris adjustment? I hope readers don't get the wrong impression. That iris is quite adjustable.

Art, do you use manual settings for taking pictures? ie.bulb mode?

Seb

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Best Buy have a 15% restocking fee on projectors? I've been debating about this projector and was going to try one out from them until I saw the restock fee. That's a pretty hefty fee on a $3000 plus item.


They had a projector set up in their Magnolia Theater room...

I would agree with the comments above re: calibrated comparisons vs. out of the box. I absolutely appreciate Art's perspective on this, particularly at this price point. But the expectation for at least minimum calibration with Avia or Video Essentials should be endorsed to the masses. If you're spending $2-3K on a projector plus another $500+ on a screen an extra $30 for a calibration disc is inconsequential. I would go one step further in that a grayscale calibration should be part of the process as well. Each projector needs to be calibrated close to a common standard before relevant comparisons can be made. This certainly doesn't preclude out-of-the-box comparisons (and frankly until I read Art's comments above I never appreciated the value of mentioning those settings at all).

Unfortunately there are only so many hours in the day. ;) Still a solid, informative review.

Anyone know of a showroom/store in the Los Angeles area that has these projectors on display and working (Panny, Z4, any decent DLP, etc.)? The only LCD projector I've ever seen live is a Z2 projected on a wall (albeit coated with some sort of screen paint). Have been to several home theater stores in L.A. but they all had poor projection set-ups... mediocre projectors, grainy glass-bead screens, etc., all looking significantly worse than the Z2/wall scenario.

Thanks,
Scott

Art,

I know that your reviews are geared to out of the box/non tweakers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should change your review style. Although, and only from the screenshots on your Z4 review, it seems the Z4 is visually darker than the AE900. But, can't that be solved via iris adjustment? I hope readers don't get the wrong impression. That iris is quite adjustable.

Art, do you use manual settings for taking pictures? ie.bulb mode?

Seb

The Z4 with manual iris fully open and calibrated can be as bright or brighter than the AE900 calibrated. Now depending on your screen size and viewing environment you're going to want to adjust the iris to the specs of your own theater.

It was also my impression that everything was dim on the Z4 in the review which may be the case if you don't touch any of the settings. I think even novice projector owners would be able to tell that the picture looks a bit dim and would work to correct it. Any reason when viewing the Z4, Art, that you decided not to adjust for the dim picture by opening the iris or moving to a brighter picture mode?

The Z4 with manual iris fully open and calibrated can be as bright or brighter than the AE900 calibrated. Now depending on your screen size and viewing environment you're going to want to adjust the iris to the specs of your own theater.

It was also my impression that everything was dim on the Z4 in the review which may be the case if you don't touch any of the settings. I think even novice projector owners would be able to tell that the picture looks a bit dim and would work to correct it. Any reason when viewing the Z4, Art, that you decided not to adjust for the dim picture by opening the iris or moving to a birghter picture mode?

That's something that was also pointed out in the PC review - stopped down too much the iris would produce better blacks but the overall image was too dim. In ROne's Z4 tweak thread he specifies ranges for the iris where a good compromise is made between black levels and brightness.

The auto lamp iris has three settings, OPEN, CLOSED and AUTO. In AUTO it opens and closes down more than when manually set to OPEN or CLOSED.

This is above and beyond where your manual iris is.

The right settings are the best preset that utilises the auto lamp iris effectively, though as a user you can't tune this, you can only pick a preset and within that accept what the auto lamp iris does.

In testing the auto-lamps iris's habits I found that it worked well on Creative Cinema and Living preset. (That is it reacted enough to make a difference with reasonable transparency of operation.)

The other presets such as Dynamic & Powerful exhibit too much close down in dark scenes which then produces a much too dim picture.

If you subtly employ the auto-lamp iris as in LIVING preset and use a low (-40 and below) manual lamp iris setting and an adaptive lamp mode. You get all the benefits without the dim picture.

In contrast terms this makes about 1350:1 @ D65.

ROne,
In your opinion, is the Living Preset still the best baseline?
Thanks.

If you subtly employ the auto-lamp iris as in LIVING preset and use a low (-40 and below) manual lamp iris setting and an adaptive lamp mode. You get all the benefits without the dim picture.

In contrast terms this makes about 1350:1 @ D65.

Thans for all your contributions so far, ROne.

I understand the benefit of using Living preset and the low (-40) manual lamp iris, but am not sure what you mean about also using "an adaptive lamp mode." I would have thought that the manual iris was the adaptive lamp mode.

Can you clarify this for me?

Thanks.

Shelly

Yep. Creative Cinema is close second and is better out of the box.

But Living wins subjectively and with the numbers.

On top of the iris modes, the Z4 (and Z3) has 4 lamps modes (LOW, A2, A1, FULL). The A modes increase brightness when the screen has higher peak levels but the fan gets noiser.

If you subtly employ the auto-lamp iris as in LIVING preset and use a low (-40 and below) manual lamp iris setting and an adaptive lamp mode. You get all the benefits without the dim picture.

In contrast terms this makes about 1350:1 @ D65.

I believe this is not so subtle a statement. ROne has done a ton of tweaking and I wholeheartedly recommend this as a starting point for anyone else looking to tweak their Z4. Good work ROne!

No one answered my last post, so I'll try again: For those of you who already have the Z-4, what screen sizes are you using? And what is the distance you set the projector up at from the screen? And, I guess while were at it, what is your primary viewing distance for your setup?

-Thanks

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. What sceen are you using, and the screen gain?

No one answered my last post, so I'll try again: For those of you who already have the Z-4, what screen sizes are you using? And what is the distance you set the projector up at from the screen? And, I guess while were at it, what is your primary viewing distance for your setup?

-Thanks

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. What sceen are you using, and the screen gain?


I'm using a 106" screen with the projector mounted about 13' from the screen. I currently sit about 14' from the screen but when I get my theater seats in, it'll be closer to 16'. My screen is just a DIY blackout cloth screen. I would guess that the gain is probably close to 1.0. Obviously at the screen size and distance I see no screendoor.

No one answered my last post, so I'll try again: For those of you who already have the Z-4, what screen sizes are you using? And what is the distance you set the projector up at from the screen? And, I guess while were at it, what is your primary viewing distance for your setup?

-Thanks

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. What sceen are you using, and the screen gain?

I just ordered an 88" 1.78:1 HCG 0.8 gain screen from Carada. I'll be sitting approximately the same distance as the Z4. My screen will be shipped out Wednesday. :cool:

Anyone know if an IMX lens will fit on the Z4?

Anyone know if an IMX lens will fit on the Z4?

Doesn't an IMX just sit in front not actually on the projector?

I thought the IMX could be mounted directly to the lens ring of most projectors. Although I'm not sure how that would work with the Z4's auto lens cover.

Has anyone done any testing\tweaking of the Z4 in a non-light controlled room? It sounds light ROne's suggestions are all based on usage in a light controlled room (correct me if I am wrong).

My room has white walls, while ceiling, beige tile. I plan to use a 119" screen (probably HCCV). I will be sitting 17 ft back. Room dimensions are 21 x 18 ft. Usage will mainly be at night.

I'm also wondering if I will need the extra brightness of the Panny 900 because of the size of screen I am looking to use or if the brightness on the Z4 will be sufficient.

Thanks,

Wakefield

I thought the IMX could be mounted directly to the lens ring of most projectors. Although I'm not sure how that would work with the Z4's auto lens cover.
I've been wondering precisely the same thing.

If you subtly employ the auto-lamp iris as in LIVING preset and use a low (-40 and below) manual lamp iris setting and an adaptive lamp mode. You get all the benefits without the dim picture.
DAMN that's impressive information. Thanks for sharing all your efforts ROne.

I received my Z4 a few days ago and will be returning it.

The main reason I decided to return it was that the screendoor effect is really bad. My previous projector was a DLP, so perhaps the Z4 is no worse than other LCD projectors, but I found the pixelation unacceptable. Sitting 12 feet away from an 84" screen, clouds in a blue sky on this projector looked to me like a dense cluster of white dots on an field of blue dots. Defocusing the lens gave me a blurry picture. I'd seen a review that claimed pixelation wouldn't be an issue at this range, but this wasn't the case for me.

The blacks were not as deep as I would have expected from the 7000:1 published spec, except when they were too black. Watching the great (although grainy) film "Dream with the Fishes", I noticed that the tire and wheelwell of the taxi in an opening scene dissolved into an amorphous black blob with no visible detail. No setting I tried brought any detail to that area of the screen.

I was using component video from a progressive DVD player.

On the plus side, the image is bright, the h & v shift is great, the throw is impressive and projector is very quiet. It just doesn't throw an image that I can enjoy - not at this price.

Does anybody know if the Z4 adjusts gamma dynamically as it adjusts the iris?

I also see in the specs that it has a dual iris, one fixed and one dynamic and a dynamic lamp:

Dual Iris Light Engine
How well blacks are rendered has a crucial impact on the contrast and overall quality of your video images. The new dual iris light engine with one iris fitted into the lens and an additional controlling the light output of the lamp provides total control of the light volume allowing a high-contrast (3 times higher than the Z3), three-dimensional image with stunningly real blacks.

React Image Mode
The PLV-Z4 constantly analyses the average picture level (APL) of the screen, and along with the dual iris light engine controls the lamp output for an appropriate volume of light. This way, problems with glaring whites or murky, undifferentiated blacks are resolved, as is the problem of a "grey-black" screen.

So does the Z4 track the gamma with the changes it makes in iris and lamp?

Is the Canadian warranty 3 years?

Anybody know where a Z4 can be seen in the Toronto area?

Is bulb life ok with the Z2 and Z3's such that Z4 bulb life should be ok too? Remember the short bulb life of many Z1's?

Does anyone in the St. Louis, MO area know if I have shot at actually seeing the Z4 or The Pannasonic 900? Still on the fence.

The main reason I decided to return it was that the screendoor effect is really bad. My previous projector was a DLP, so perhaps the Z4 is no worse than other LCD projectors, but I found the pixelation unacceptable. Sitting 12 feet away from an 84" screen, clouds in a blue sky on this projector looked to me like a dense cluster of white dots on an field of blue dots. Defocusing the lens gave me a blurry picture. I'd seen a review that claimed pixelation wouldn't be an issue at this range, but this wasn't the case for me.


What DLP did you have earlier. I'm debating between Z4 and Panny 900 and SDE is a crucial factor to me too. Thanks.

I received my Z4 a few days ago and will be returning it.

The main reason I decided to return it was that the screendoor effect is really bad. My previous projector was a DLP, so perhaps the Z4 is no worse than other LCD projectors, but I found the pixelation unacceptable. Sitting 12 feet away from an 84" screen, clouds in a blue sky on this projector looked to me like a dense cluster of white dots on an field of blue dots. Defocusing the lens gave me a blurry picture. I'd seen a review that claimed pixelation wouldn't be an issue at this range, but this wasn't the case for me.

The blacks were not as deep as I would have expected from the 7000:1 published spec, except when they were too black. Watching the great (although grainy) film "Dream with the Fishes", I noticed that the tire and wheelwell of the taxi in an opening scene dissolved into an amorphous black blob with no visible detail. No setting I tried brought any detail to that area of the screen.

I was using component video from a progressive DVD player.

On the plus side, the image is bright, the h & v shift is great, the throw is impressive and projector is very quiet. It just doesn't throw an image that I can enjoy - not at this price.

Defocusing is not something to be taken lightly or done with a quick flip of the wrist. It's very slight, otherwise it will give you a blurry picture. The Z4 is so sharp normally that a blurry picture all but means you went too far.

The Z4 is very tweakable and requires alot of time to tailor for specific environments. As mentioned, it will not please the out of box non tweaker. If you want a projector that is much less tweakable but will awe out of the box get the AE900. Switching modes is not going to change much. The Z4 is so involved with image modes, multiple irises etc. that it takes alot of work to get to the best image. It also means that you can optimize to the nth degree for your environment.

Why should a person have to spend hours tweaking their projector? To me the better projector is one that comes calibrated out of the box. I repair TV's for a living and the last thing I want to do is spend hours or days tweaking my projector--that would take all the enjoyment out of watching it. I want to adjust it a little and then sit back and enjoy it. I don't want to be constantly finding faults with the picture as I watch it.

This will be my first projector purchase. Are projectors so different from TV's that most manufacturer's cannot produce a calibrated projector (like the AE900) right out the box? Is there a real benefit to having dozens of ways to adjust the picture?

Is there a real benefit to having dozens of ways to adjust the picture?

Apparently there is(check the link), but it makes you wonder why the people at Sanyo didn't do this themselves in the first place. Bit silly really... :rolleyes:

http://www.cine4home.de/Tuning/Z4/Z4Tuning.htm

Sitting 12 feet away from an 84" screen, clouds in a blue sky on this projector looked to me like a dense cluster of white dots on an field of blue dots.
You have fantastic visual acuity. As you state this is well beyond the 1.3-1.5 range that has been cited everywhere else.

Why should a person have to spend hours tweaking their projector? To me the better projector is one that comes calibrated out of the box.
I would say "reasonably" calibrated to agree with you. It's unrealistic to expect a bang-on calibration given the differences in screen materials and rooms that people will be using. But all else being equal closer to a reference standard out of the box is definitely desirable.

Apparently there is(check the link), but it makes you wonder why the people at Sanyo didn't do this themselves in the first place. Bit silly really... :rolleyes:

http://www.cine4home.de/Tuning/Z4/Z4Tuning.htm
Can someone suggest good translators? I was barely able to read this with the one I used. It looks like German.

I received my Z4 a few days ago and will be returning it.

The main reason I decided to return it was that the screendoor effect is really bad. My previous projector was a DLP, so perhaps the Z4 is no worse than other LCD projectors, but I found the pixelation unacceptable. Sitting 12 feet away from an 84" screen, clouds in a blue sky on this projector looked to me like a dense cluster of white dots on an field of blue dots. Defocusing the lens gave me a blurry picture. I'd seen a review that claimed pixelation wouldn't be an issue at this range, but this wasn't the case for me.

The blacks were not as deep as I would have expected from the 7000:1 published spec, except when they were too black. Watching the great (although grainy) film "Dream with the Fishes", I noticed that the tire and wheelwell of the taxi in an opening scene dissolved into an amorphous black blob with no visible detail. No setting I tried brought any detail to that area of the screen.

I was using component video from a progressive DVD player.

On the plus side, the image is bright, the h & v shift is great, the throw is impressive and projector is very quiet. It just doesn't throw an image that I can enjoy - not at this price.


I'd give it a few more days. DLP has a different picture than LCD. To me LCD FP's look for more "film-like" than DLP. I don't see the "rainbows" from DLP, but there's just something "mechanical" looking about even the best DLP pictures. Although, I must admit, I'm quite surprised you're having that much difficulty with SDE with your screen size and viewing distance.

Anybody know where a Z4 can be seen in the Toronto area??
I have heard end November in Canada.

I'd give it a few more days. DLP has a different picture than LCD. To me LCD FP's look for more "film-like" than DLP. I don't see the "rainbows" from DLP, but there's just something "mechanical" looking about even the best DLP pictures. Although, I must admit, I'm quite surprised you're having that much difficulty with SDE with your screen size and viewing distance.

hm like RBE is a major problem for some SDE is for some others.
i personally don't have a problem with either one.
i had an infocus dlp 350 some years ago, which must have been really bad in terms of RBE. at least in comparison to current DLP projectors.
i never had a problem with it though.

then i bought a Z2 about 1 1/2 years ago. i did see SDE and VB but for me it was visible enough to be a distraction.
now i bought a Z4 a month ago. i haven't seen any signs of VB on film material yet.
i still see SDE from time to time, but it is indeed even less of a problem than on my old Z2.

on the other hand i can imagine that some people might have real problems wiht SDE on the Z4 (and probably all LCDs excl. the pannies).

so if you have never owned a LCD projector (or just pannies) you should have a look for yourself to see if SDE bothers you on any of the new LCDs models (excl. the AE900).

otherwise you can be assured, that it is at least not more of a problem than with the last generation models.

i can't see anyone having problems with SDE with the Sanyos, unless they have a ridiculously large screen or they sit too close. I sit at 2.5x screen width and it does not bother me :-)

i bought a Z4 a month ago. i haven't seen any signs of VB on film material yet.
For the record, what is your screen width and seating distance?

i can't see anyone having problems with SDE with the Sanyos, unless they have a ridiculously large screen or they sit too close. I sit at 2.5x screen width and it does not bother me :-)

I think some people like to sit "too close". It's more immersive I guess. Once you reach a certain point while moving closer, you start having to pan the screen with your eyes which leads to eyestrain.

In brighter movies or those with many explosions/flashes of light I feel that sitting close fills my field of vision with too much of that type of visual info again leading to eyestrain.

Allowing my eyes to wander off screen from time to time improves my viewing experience by keeping me from fatiguing before the end of a movie. The tighter the viewing cone(further I move away) the easier it is for me to wander off screen and back on quickly. Of course if you're too far then you'll have to squint which defeats the whole purpose but for the reasons mentioned above I guess I tend to prefer slightly further seating distances. Most LCD's work fine for me because of that preference though I was more susceptible to seeing SDE on the HS51 than the Z4 to the point where I felt it mucked up the picture a bit. I returned that projector.

Watching that link to Cine4Home regarding Z4 tuning, there's a picture of a filter they obviously use. I don't know anything about filters for Z4 and when to be used.

Can someone "fill in the blanks"? And is the filter they're showing for sale?

I just watched the IMX93X-VTS Cygnus lenses which will fit several models. There's a table on this page http://www.panamorph.com/cygnus/index.htm that show those lens diameters they will work with. Is the Z4 lens among them?

Regards

Watching that link to Cine4Home regarding Z4 tuning, there's a picture of a filter they obviously use. I don't know anything about filters for Z4 and when to be used.

Can someone "fill in the blanks"? And is the filter they're showing for sale?

I just watched the IMX93X-VTS Cygnus lenses which will fit several models. There's a table on this page http://www.panamorph.com/cygnus/index.htm that show those lens diameters they will work with. Is the Z4 lens among them?

Regards


From what I gather muddling throught the translation of that review the filter seems to be custom made to fit and match the Z4. It doesn't look like they are selling the filter alone, but rather as a "tuned package" with the Z4. Basically a pre-calibrated hot rodded projector.

The concern about the Cygnus lenses with the Z4 is how they are installed and whether or not they will interfere with the operation of the Z4's auto lens cover. The question was posed above but still no answer.

Watching that link to Cine4Home regarding Z4 tuning, there's a picture of a filter they obviously use. I don't know anything about filters for Z4 and when to be used.

Can someone "fill in the blanks"? And is the filter they're showing for sale?

I just watched the IMX93X-VTS Cygnus lenses which will fit several models. There's a table on this page http://www.panamorph.com/cygnus/index.htm that show those lens diameters they will work with. Is the Z4 lens among them?

Regards

Seems like a red CC filter to compensate for the lack of high reds inherent to most UHP based digital FP. You can buy a filter and mount it into a metal ring of the appropriate diameter, they do not sell this filter.

It's possible that I am just more sensitive to SDE than most other people - at one point my sight was tested as being better than 20-20. :eek: Given the relatively small size of my screen (84") and that I'm sitting 12 feet back, I realize that I'm not supposed to notice the pixels, but again, swatches of solid color looked really grainy to me on this projector. While I imagine I *could* get used to it, returning it for another projector seemed like a better option.

Is it possible that using a progressive scan DVD player with component input somehow exacerbated the SDE?

My previous projector was a NEC LT240, which I really liked. Despite being a few years old, it's surprising how well its specifications hold up.

The next projector I'll try is the Panasonic AE900U, which is an LCD but supposedly doesn't suffer from SDE. By the way, my sales rep said that all of their staff preferred the image of the AE900U over the PLV-Z4 hands down.

Just another datapoint. It seems that many people are highly impressed by this projector, I just wasn't one of them.

The concern about the Cygnus lenses with the Z4 is how they are installed and whether or not they will interfere with the operation of the Z4's auto lens cover. The question was posed above but still no answer.
This reply from AVS re: compatibility with the Z4:

Yes you would have to use the IMX-93U universal and sit the unit on the stand in front of the projector.
Which to me means "no, not compatible." Not going to be parking a little stand in front of the lens to jerry rig something like this. Clearly a downside of the auto lens cover in this case. And actually suggests a useful menu option allowing you to bypass the cover and let it remain open.

Just another datapoint. It seems that many people are highly impressed by this projector, I just wasn't one of them.

Well, count me as one of those people highly impressed. My new Z4 arrived today, and WOW! I am not an expert, but I have read way too many posts on forums like this over the last two years, and my brother does own an Infocus 4805. We have always been pretty picky about image quality. He brought his 4805 over for a "shootout" during the installation.

1. SDE - I am projecting a 116" diagonal screen on an off white wall in my family room, with primary seating about 12.5 feet back and the projector placed on the top shelf of a component rack about 15.5 feet from the screen (directly behind the primary seating area). I did not require a lot of lens shift, but that feature is very cool and could definitely come in handy in many situations. The SDE issue is hardly worth mentioning IMO. You could barely make out the "pixels" on lettering from my seating distance and did not notice anything with video. In fact I was able to get even closer with hardly noticing it. I would not trade the amazing sharpness of this projector for a projector that "smooths" the image so that I can be 1 foot away and not notice any pixels, I personally call that blurring :) I definitely would not want to sit any closer with such a massive screen, as I would be scanning back and forth too much anyway. FYI, NONE of the 7 people who watched the projector this evening mentioned any SDE or were bothered by it. This included several tech geeks and others who know very little about this stuff.

2. Noise - I could not even tell that this thing was running, my brother commented how much quieter it is than the 4805. The fan on my PC in the same room can be heard well before the Z4 will ever be heard apparently.

2. Brightness - It is clearly brighter than the 4805 for viewing with light in the room, my brother noticed this right away.

3. HD content - The 4805 is still an amazing projector for the price, and it is hard to imagine a non-HD projector making HD look as nice as this one. However, the Z4 is definitely sharper as should be expected for a "true" HD projector. We watched an ESPNHD football broadcast with company, and everyone was in awe at how amazing the image looked at that size. I would NEVER buy a plasma or DLP TV before getting a projector for my home theater, and everyone else seemed to agree. It seemed later that HD even improved because of a setting in my cable box that I switched. I had it set earlier to "up convert" all signals and then changed it to "fixed" for whatever the source signal should be. It seemed to me, and my wife agreed that the HD channels suddenly became that much more amazing in their clarity. FYI, I am running and HDMI cable from my cable box to the projector. We stumbled upon something on one of the HD channels that was of such high quality that we both were speechless at how amazing it looked, you really have to see this to believe it. Of course you can tell that there are differences in broadcast quality even with HD content, but this one piece of material seemed to showcase what the Z4 is capable of when fed quality feed. The 4805 certainly cannot match that, and my assumption is that the sharpness advantage apparently owned by the Z4 will be a great asset against other HD projectors too.

4. Regular TV - I was hoping that the Z4 would look at least okay with regular cable channels too, as some reviews indicated that the 480i deinterlacing was not very good. That is the reason that I had turned on the setting in my cable box to "up convert" everything as I mentioned before, and it looked just fine doing this, similar to the 4805 that is very good at this. However, when I changed the setting to stop up conversion and seemed to gain some quality in my HD content, to my surprise the 480i regular channels looked MUCH better than they did through the up conversion. Again, I am not an expert, but I am assuming that I was getting the projector's deinterlacing of the 480i signal at that point. And it looked better than the 4805 performing this now IMO. A very pleasant surprise for me at least.

5. DVD viewing - The 4805 does look incredible on DVDs, and when we viewed it again before testing the Z4 I was very nervous. We used some Finding Nemo, Toy Story and Lord of the Rings: Two Towers (Battle of Helms Deep) for comparison. The 4805 has gotten rave reviews for its colors, rightfully so, but I was very happy with the Z4 "out of the box" in this department for my DVD viewing. Neither of us really noticed a major difference in color performance that bothered us. Admittedly we did not do a lot of looking for "shadow detail", "black levels" etc. But the bottom line based on my initial viewing of DVD content is that I will be thrilled with the quality of this. We both thought that the Z4 may have seemed a little sharper on even 480p DVD content than the 4805, and the sharpness seems to be a common theme per my experience and reviews so far. I may consider getting an HDMI "up converting" DVD player, but it looks awesome as it is for now.

In summary: I consider myself a tech geek and have noticed differences in picture quality over the years in TV displays, PC monitors, etc. However, I am certainly no expert in assessing contrast, black levels and on and on as discussed in these forums. The short story is that this seems to be an incredible projector that for me seems to do HD incredibly well due to its awesome sharpness (can't wait to get an Xbox 360 hooked up to this thing), appears to do a great job with DVD (certainly nothing of note in comparison to a great performing 4805) and again may have a subtle sharpness edge on this content too, and apparently for me the internal deinterlacing is doing a super job on regular 480i content (of which I will try to avoid anyway now that I have HD), arguably better than I recall on the 4805. You can of course have the cable box do an "up conversion" as I had originally to remove any weakness there if desired. All of my observations are based on "out of the box" performance, with no tweaking. It seems that you can tweak this guy in a zillion ways so I have no doubt that I can do some nice things with it, but I personally could be thrilled for quite a while with no tweaking and my off white wall until I get a screen some day, sorry if that makes me a "novice" :)

And that sliding lens door is kinda cool too, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND this projector to anyone looking to get in around this price point. And I would definitely go for the 4805 based on its great DVD performance and awesome job of scaling HD content if you need to stick closer to $1,000.

This reply from AVS re: compatibility with the Z4:


Which to me means "no, not compatible." Not going to be parking a little stand in front of the lens to jerry rig something like this. Clearly a downside of the auto lens cover in this case. And actually suggests a useful menu option allowing you to bypass the cover and let it remain open.

Everyone using an anamorphic lens on just about any projector has to park it in front just like that. I don't see how the IMX is that much bigger of a deal. In fact it should be easier given its size and shape. Anamorphics especially when you get to the ISCO III can be very clunky and heavy.

For the record, what is your screen width and seating distance?

width around 100"
seating distance around 160"

2. Noise - I could not even tell that this thing was running, my brother commented how much quieter it is than the 4805. The fan on my PC in the same room can be heard well before the Z4 will ever be heard apparently.


Is your Z4 really that quiet? Mine is quiet but I can still hear it when there are no other sounds in the room or when there is a quiet scene in a movie. It is a LOT quieter than my 4805 was, but it is still not silent to the point that I can't tell its running. I'm really curious to know if you are maybe exaggerrating a little bit, because if not, then I can't help but think that something may be wrong with the fan on mine.