Hopefully Jack will make some sort of a "State Of NHT" post next time he's here with some good news.

I already said I was deferring to your all knowing infinite wisdom on this one about how great and peachy things are right now with NHT & Vinci Labs to the point that they couldn't possibly be any better or rosier than they are. What else do you want? Read it a few times & maybe you'll understand. :D When did I ever say things were all peachy & rosy..........what I said & maintain is that vinci has had a positive effect on the company & offered some suggestions on how to avoid this situation in the future; whoever may own it. But if you want to continue talking like a jackass, go ahead, I won't give you any crediblity for that. :rolleyes:

When did I ever say things were all peachy & rosy..........what I said & maintain is that vinci has had a positive effect on the company & offered some suggestions on how to avoid this situation in the future; whoever may own it. But if you want to continue talking like a jackass, go ahead, I won't give you any crediblity for that. :rolleyes:

Uhh, here:

I really don't mind the price increases as NHT speakers were undervalued as is. Part of the upswing in mgt & marketing vinci added. Have to say I like it, at least people who pay attention have heard of them by now. Looking forward to Xd2 or Evo2, whatever they call them. :)

and here:

Is there any question vinci has had a positive effect on the company? Better marketing, introduction of some high quality products, better customer service. In fact, nht's traditionally low price, high quality strategy may be what's hurting profits...change that to moderate prices (maybe even high for *some* items), more marketing, & keep the high quality; does wonders for the bottom line & company stability. Maybe the staff refuses to go down that road, but you have to understand music isn't the only priority, even though it's the first & most important one.

Both posts which reeked of nothing but complete and total blind fanboyism totally in denial of the current state of reality.

If they were actually true, then NHT simply would not be in the situation they are in right now. Surely, even you can grasp this whether you will admit or not. ;)

Well you really do need the X2 when used with A1s, but not just on A1s, but with any power amp or amps for the Four's built in passive subs, it will allow you to forget about trying to match their gain to your Denon AVR (which may be all but impossible to find anyway). Plus, it gives you plenty of useful options, such as both separate master gain and LFE gain to dial in different settings for both 2 channel music and movie soundtracks (if you want to crank it up a little on movies), high and low pass crossovers (optional when used with the Fours), a very comprehensive phase control adjustment, and a boundary Eq that could come in handy in various different placement situations.

However, the bad news is that the retail prices on an X2 and a pair of A1s is now over $1300, and even though you can get the Fours for only $500 more than the Threes, that's still $1800 when added together, which will can buy you a hell of a lot more subwoofer(s) than the ones the Fours have (even with an X2/A1s), especially the ID brands. :eek:

However, if you can get the Fours now for only $500 more than the Threes, and when you consider it would be even less than that if you have to factor in the price of a set of stands, it's a no brainer IMO to go ahead and get the Fours now. You could use them as is for now and always pick up an X2 and A1s later, especially since it would give you time to lay back and wait for a good deal on the used market. ;)

I would look for a 4 channel Citation amp. That is what I had on my 2.9s. I removed the jumpers sent 2 channels to each speaker full range and let the crossover in the speakers work for me. I haven't checked lately but I bet the amps are around $400.00 or so.
Allen

It looks like NHT is closing out the Classic 4s in Special Dark: $999 at Audio Advisor for a pair.

Ouch. Well, funny thing, that's one of our best selling speakers. They sell as well as black, if not better. Women love that color usually.

Uhh, here:

and here:

Both posts which reeked of nothing but complete and total blind fanboyism totally in denial of the current state of reality.

If they were actually true, then NHT simply would not be in the situation they are in right now. Surely, even you can grasp this whether you will admit or not. ;)

Vinci Group certain *did* have a positive effect on NHT while they were interested. I'm not sure WTF they're doing now, but I have a feeling I need to start carrying more PSB Synchrony models and maybe Revel if they don't stop f'ng around.

There are two constants in the universe after death and taxes. One, NHT sales/management doesn't know what they're doing and won't listen to anyone and two, whoever owns NHT doesn't know what they're doing and won't listen to anyone. If it weren't for brilliant engineering, there'd be nothing to discuss.

But at this point, I'm exhausted with the whole thing. I'm tired of the ups and downs and waiting for product and random raising and lowering of prices. Unless I see some really good news in the next several weeks, I just don't see much choice but to begin to de-emphasize NHT and look at other options, not the least of which is just saying "F it", I need to do something else with my life".

That being said, as is usual, NHT will probably manage to land on its feet and go back to business as usual, unless someone smarter than average takes over and does something even better with it. The possibilities are endless, but if you can't take advantage of something if you can't see it.

It looks like NHT is closing out the Classic 4s in Special Dark: $999 at Audio Advisor for a pair.

I didn't realize that the special dark was not a good seller that it would force dealers to drop the price.

You guys don't like it?

I just got my Xd setup in Special Dark. I was thinking that the "Classic" color was going to be to in your face type of thing.

Curtis.

Vinci Group certain *did* have a positive effect on NHT while they were interested. I'm not sure WTF they're doing now, but I have a feeling I need to start carrying more PSB Synchrony models and maybe Revel if they don't stop f'ng around.

There are two constants in the universe after death and taxes. One, NHT sales/management doesn't know what they're doing and won't listen to anyone and two, whoever owns NHT doesn't know what they're doing and won't listen to anyone. If it weren't for brilliant engineering, there'd be nothing to discuss.

But at this point, I'm exhausted with the whole thing. I'm tired of the ups and downs and waiting for product and random raising and lowering of prices. Unless I see some really good news in the next several weeks, I just don't see much choice but to begin to de-emphasize NHT and look at other options, not the least of which is just saying "F it", I need to do something else with my life".

That being said, as is usual, NHT will probably manage to land on its feet and go back to business as usual, unless someone smarter than average takes over and does something even better with it. The possibilities are endless, but if you can't take advantage of something if you can't see it.

Lets hope so to what is in bold in the last paragraph. It would truly be a sad day otherwise.

The comment about marketing hit the bullseye too. Take the Controller's Deq for example. It should have been marketed as much as it possibly could have been with "before and after" graphs, etc. instead of being treated like a classified national defense Top Secret that would have only benefited the competition.

My take was that NHT was focusing on the install side of the business: these are the types of guys that can "market" the Deq of the Controller. Has NHT deemphasized the retail side of things?

Lets hope so to what is in bold in the last paragraph. It would truly be a sad day otherwise.

The comment about marketing hit the bullseye too. Take the Controller's Deq for example. It should have been marketed as much as it possibly could have instead of being treated like a national Top Secret.

Hey, if I gave you a list of "I told you so"s, it would probably fill a whole page on the thread. I tried to tell Vinci they needed to buy the Fosgate name if they wanted to sell their preamps/amps to anything besides NHT dealers and NHT customers. This wasn't a useful piece of advice for me, but it sure was for them. And then they wondered why they weren't selling as many as they'd hoped. Well......., the psychology was simple, a) most people think that NHT isn't good at anything but speakers, so they distrust their electronics automatically, b) if they're not NHT fans, they certainly wouldn't be interested and c) it seems odd to use one speaker brands' electronics with another speaker brand. Oh, and d) since the Controller does something for NHT speakers, but nothing for other speaker brands, people thought they were paying for a feature that they couldn't have.

Even so, the Controller was the best selling preamp for me ever. I hope it doesn't bite me in the ass like every other damned preamp I've ever sold (B&K, Fosgate....). Keith says they're working on HDMI 1.3a but I have no idea with whom they'd be working on it. It would seem odd to fire their engineers and outsource with most of the work already done, but I guess that's happens a lot in industry.

I probably shouldn't even be talking about this, but I'm so damned frustrated with the last month of shenanigans.

Feel even better now about ordering the NAD T175 over the controller. :)

john,

Did you close down your showroom and are only doing installs now?

How does a $999 closeout price on a speaker let you even compete?

I just got 50% off on Mirage Omnis and now NHTs are 50% off and the best I was hoping to do was 20% off, making the 4s $1440(old price).

.....+ I threw away the boxes on my omnis and can't return them to crutchfield.

My take was that NHT was focusing on the install side of the business: these are the types of guys that can "market" the Deq of the Controller. Has NHT deemphasized the retail side of things?

I don't think they've de-emphasized it, I think it's the fact that retailers, like me, are closing retail stores to emphasize custom. So, if they lose a retailer, it's hard to get one back. Fewer retailers, more install people. The existing dealers that are successful don't like to change lines unless they're getting better products, availability, service, etc and NHT isn't good at that. NHT is good at the "if you absolutely have to have a really great product for a very low price and don't mind waiting or other BS" type market. But that's a declining market. I've heard of NHT dealers switching to other brands that are, to me, notably lower in quality/value because they have a broader line, they're good at promotion, they always have stock, they're never in turmoil. Me? I sell on quality/value, so I put up with all this stuff, but there's a limit. I just hope Vinci Group sells NHT before they do any more damage.

Ditching Evolution without updating it is just plain stupid, but I think they're doing it either to get their money back before they close it or, optimistically, trying to make the company's books look better in order to try to sell the company more easily or for more money.

It's funny, except for Ken and Bill and Jack at NHT, there's not a single person that has ever made me think "wow, this guy really is brilliant or knowledgeable or driven or [insert positive adjective here]". For instance, NAD, PSB, they really run a business properly. B&W (let alone Bose), much as I think there stuff is overpriced, really run a company well. (Actually, I fixed the issue with those B&W 802Ds I heard the other day and they're about as good as Fours now +/-).

john,

Did you close down your showroom and are only doing installs now?

Yeah, too many burglaries.

How does a $999 closeout price on a speaker let you even compete?

It doesn't. Pure and simple. B&W or Paradigm or ______ would never let that happen. That's why they lose dealers. I wouldn't be surprised if they lose 25 dealers in the next month or two.

I just got 50% off on Mirage Omnis and now NHTs are 50% off and the best I was hoping to do was 20% off, making the 4s $1440(old price).

Buy now, buy often.

.....+ I threw away the boxes on my omnis and can't return them to crutchfield.

:(

Feel even better now about ordering the NAD T175 over the controller. :)

Yes, but keep in mind that many people have had their Controllers for 12-18 months :)

That being said - $2000 vs $3200, HDMI 1.3a vs HDMI 1.1, Audyssey vs NHT only curves............

Well, I can't support the Controller/Power5, but I suspect they will have some blow out in the next few weeks, maybe after they clear out all the Evos. Even then, I don't think they could drop it enough to make the NAD feel any fear. God I'm pissed off.

Why are these companies doing this when the economy is still good?
Closeout pricing with NO new models announced.

I only have $560 in the Omnis so they could always go to the beachhouse.
There would be some pretty happy tenants, if they didn't get stolen.

John,

One would hope that NHT will call and check on your inventory then rebate you something to make you whole, or at least competitive.

.....+ I threw away the boxes on my omnis and can't return them to crutchfield.

NEVER EVER throw away boxes. Right John? :p

Does this include the A1s and X1s separately too?

Yep

What are the individual closeout prices of the whole Evo line if you can reveal them?

I'd expect you'll see them for around half or retail or thereabouts. I just bought a shiite load too before this, which is another reason I'm pissed off.

Why are these companies doing this when the economy is still good?
Closeout pricing with NO new models announced.

Hey, that's the question I ask every day and get no answer. They tell me what they're doing, just won't say why.

NEVER EVER throw away boxes. Right John? :p

Exactly!

One would hope that NHT will call and check on your inventory then rebate you something to make you whole, or at least competitive.

Hah! I wish......

I wouldn't be surprised if they lose 25 dealers in the next month or two.

That they can simply not afford to lose since there's already way too few as it is.

Then again, the way some dealers are (and I'm not talking about you here John), losing some of them might not be such a bad thing. Craigsub made a post that he wanted to put the Fours in his current tower shootout he has going on, but the dealer he walked into to get a pair ignored him because they were eating lunch or something, and then he gave up and left after about 30 minutes, so the Fours missed out on a comparison I'm confident they would have done extremely well on against the competition they would have been up against.

I wish they'd at least give ID a try first before closing the doors forever if that's what it comes to.

These Fours at AA for $999 per pair wiill sell out quickly.

Does all this NHT talk of closeouts and half prices going to possibly apply to the Xd system as well?

Ditching Evolution without updating it is just plain stupid, but I think they're doing it either to get their money back before they close it or, optimistically, trying to make the company's books look better in order to try to sell the company more easily or for more money.

Lets just hope it's the latter part about selling it.

I just hope Klipsch doesn't buy them, but even they would be better than nothing at all I suppose. :(

Does all this NHT talk of closeouts and half prices going to possibly apply to the Xd system as well?

Depends. Like I said, they're either lightening the load for a quicker, better sale of the company and then the new guys can change whatever they need to. OR...it's part of a staged close down and eventually everything will be on a close out deal. It's hard to say since no one is talking. If you start doing drastic things without explaining why, people start to talk. And here we are. One drastic thing after another with nothing but the sound of silence.

Funny thing is that the NHT owners are brilliant people with lots of money who should be able to turn any company around.

So you guys think Vinci is going to put everything NHT on sale to get some operating cash, and then sell NHT, which by that time will be mostly a intellectual property with no inventory and very little assets?

My Video Store did something like this from '82-83. We got out of the equipment business and just rented tapes. $900,000 in equipment sales and $5400 in profit!!!
But we got our cash back to open more stores and buy mre movies.

I guess Vinci is concerned for their core business. Did NHT drag them down that fast?
You gotta think the 3/4 delay had an affect.

Ditching Evolution without updating it is just plain stupid,

Especially if they were trying to only turn more and more focus on the custom install market, as the Evolution line is tailor made for that. Evolutions will work in literally any room, and are just flat out better for HT than Classics are.

I doubt there would have ever been too many sales of M-80Xds/S80s simply due to the prices. :o

I guess Vinci is concerned for their core business. Did NHT drag them down that fast?
You gotta think the 3/4 delay had an affect.

I think it is now obviously more a case of Vinci has dragged NHT down. The only things Vinci really added to the brand's product line was the Controller and Power5/2.

Xds were already actually on the market before the buyout if I'm not mistaken, and Classics were clearly well on the way by then too. And I sort of doubt Vinci had too much to do with Verve.

So you guys think Vinci is going to put everything NHT on sale to get some operating cash, and the sell NHT, which by that time will be mostly a intellectual property with no inventory and very little assets?


Could be. But then, the smart thing to do with Evo was to have a sale, but have a replacement already in the pipeline.

It's hard to say since no one is talking. If you start doing drastic things without explaining why, people start to talk. And here we are. One drastic thing after another with nothing but the sound of silence.

Have you talked to Jack, Esa, or anybody at all?

Not really. Lots of "I can't talk about it". It's like trying to get info out of an abuse victim.

But then, the smart thing to do with Evo was to have a sale, but have a replacement already in the pipeline.

Don't you think it's reasonable to assume that there was at least some preliminary development already well into the process?

I think it is now obviously more a case of Vinci has dragged NHT down. The only things Vinci really added to the brand's product line was the Controller and Power5/2.

Xds were already actually on the market before the buyout if I'm not mistaken, and Classics were clearly well on the way by then too. And I sort of doubt Vinci had too much to do with Verve.

Well, Vinci gave NHT the money they needed to get all their products on the market. That was a *huge* help. I'll give them props for that. But the last month of goings on is completely inexplicable. People getting fired/laid off, divisions closed, prices dropped, no, raised, no, dropped, entire lines closed down, products "found" in storage, total silence from management, etc, etc.

I mean, look, these guys have all the money in the world at their disposal. Some of these guys are running very large corporations and make more money per year than what they have invested in NHT. They could turn the company around on a dime *if* they wanted to. I suspect they got in on a whim and want to get out. On a whim. That's it. Kinda like a woman meeting the romantic guy of her dreams, then they have sex, then he's bored and wants to romance some other hot chick for no other reason than pure boredom.

Don't you think it's reasonable to assume that there was at least some preliminary development already well into the process?

Nope. I think they have M80Xd coming on line, the Absolute Zero center and one other inconsequential model and that's it. At least until someone else takes over. If that happens. They have so little invested in NHT that they could close it as easily as sell it. That's the problem. Semi-rich people would sell it, but these people? They could close it and write it off.

So is Vinci Labs an ongoing enterprise, or are these "rich people" you talk about planning on closing Vinci too?

I've heard that Vinci Labs have already been shut down, but I don't know how entirely accurate that is or not.

Nope. I think they have M80Xd coming on line, the Absolute Zero center and one other inconsequential model and that's it. At least until someone else takes over. If that happens. They have so little invested in NHT that they could close it as easily as sell it. That's the problem. Semi-rich people would sell it, but these people? They could close it and write it off.

Well I do know for a fact that there was at least a prototype for a upgraded X1, but that didn't necessarily mean a next generation though. It could have simply been for an upgrade on the current model.

Here's the deal NHT is touting on their website:

http://nhthifi.com/2006/freesub.html

Now that's weird, one single W2 cabinet and an A1 amp, which are basically worthless without an X1 with them?

Just picked up the Classic 3 Center from there. Not a matching color for the rest of my equipment, but it's hard to say no to the price. Is audio advisor not going to be an authorized dealer anymore?

Also, since the evolution line is ending, does anyone know any special sales that will come up for the U1 or U2s? I'm also eyeing those Classic 4s there.. I have the 3s now, so I'm not sure if I'd want to get those and end up with a 7.1 surround sound setup or not.

www.vincilabs.com is now www.nhthifi.com. Automatically redirected.
Don't know if that is a recent change or has been like that for a while.

Just picked up the Classic 3 Center from there. Not a matching color for the rest of my equipment, but it's hard to say no to the price. Is audio advisor not going to be an authorized dealer anymore?

Also, since the evolution line is ending, does anyone know any special sales that will come up for the U1 or U2s? I'm also eyeing those Classic 4s there.. I have the 3s now, so I'm not sure if I'd want to get those and end up with a 7.1 surround sound setup or not.

I've got a U1 pair with 20hz mod that's listed in the for sale section here if you're interested.

Did you guys see the price on the center?
$199!
Are these deals only on the special dark speakers?

Did you guys see the price on the center?
$199!
Are these deals only on the special dark speakers?

I grabbed one to see how it works out with my Xds since mine are special dark.

You can pick up a pair of 3's in classic dark for $500!

You can pick up a pair of 3's in classic dark for $500!

Yep. If like the SD finish you can put together a really nice system at these prices. I am curious about the overall situation at NHT, though. Hopefully we'll get some info next week.

www.vincilabs.com is now www.nhthifi.com. Automatically redirected.
Don't know if that is a recent change or has been like that for a while.


Must have just happened in the past few days.

Ok, hold on for a minute...Agreed there's lots of changes going on with these 2, or 1, companies, however it does not automatically mean the end is near. Think back to *why* vinci bought nht. This could be part of some major restructuring; clear out the old, bring the the new & improved. Don't know how many of you have business backgrounds, but it smells more of an efficiency & profitablity makeover. Who knows for sure...well they do, and we'll all find out soon enough. I'd like to think these 'rich' guys & the muscians/music 1st people know what they're doing; they didn't get there by being stupid.

Must have just happened in the past few days.
Actually, vinci labs changed their name to nht, inc. 2 years ago. The domain change is recent but why wouldn't you do that? :)

Actually, vinci labs changed their name to nht, inc. 2 years ago. The domain change is recent but why wouldn't you do that? :)

I always thought Vinic Labs made platforums for other companys. So with NHT having a pre/amp with its name I would think it might effect vinic to make for other companys if vinic is called NHT.
Allen

No reason why they can't build or license technology to other vendors, it's done every day in the industry.

I'd like to think these 'rich' guys & the muscians/music 1st people know what they're doing; they didn't get there by being stupid.

To hear John tell it, they seem to be so incapable of anything except making good product that it's a miracle they've gotten anywhere. I'd go with the complete opposite of your interpretation.

(Actually, I fixed the issue with those B&W 802Ds I heard the other day and they're about as good as Fours now +/-).Snuck that in there, eh? Not exactly a mea culpa after all the other comments.

This thread in now 27months old. We've gone from being excited about the Classic series to waiting, waiting, waiting for them, to wondering if the company will survive.
Think about how long NHT didn't have a sucessor to the SB line?
If the Threes had appeared on time they migt not be in this position.
There was clearly a manufacturing problem.

Lots of speculation, but unless someone who's implying they are in the know actually posts some facts, it's hard to make good guesses, much less say what it means.

At the moment, given the approach of people on message boards (glance at half of half of the posts, then get hysterical) - all you're managing to do is make people think they're going out of business.

At the moment, given the approach of people on message boards (glance at half of half of the posts, then get hysterical) - all you're managing to do is make people think they're going out of business.

Which, to be fair, sounds like a distinct possibility.

Anyone know where a good picture of the Special Dark finish might be? The closeout pricing is great, but it's hard to tell what the speakers actually look like from the few shots I've seen. Thanks!

Snuck that in there, eh? Not exactly a mea culpa after all the other comments.

Well, they're still horribly overpriced for the performance. I don't think I'd take them over Fours, even if they were the same price. The Fours have more resolution and focus, though a bit less plush sounding. If I want plush, I can get that from PSB's Synchrony for 1/3rd the price of the 802Ds.

To hear John tell it, they seem to be so incapable of anything except making good product that it's a miracle they've gotten anywhere. I'd go with the complete opposite of your interpretation.

Well, if you order something, they usually ship it to you. Not always, but usually!

buzzy_,

We have a comany that introduced a $1800 tower speaker that got universal
"almost" rave reviews, raised the price to over $2000, and now is blowing them out(for lack of a better word) for $999!!!!!!!!
All in a span of about 18 months.

Things can't be good.

Keep in mind that NHT has strong enough backing (I think) that they can stay in business as is indefinitely. The problem here is if these guys get bored and close the company or if they do so much damage that no one wants to a) spend the money on them and b) do the hard work required to fix the company. Right now, it looks like the owners are pulling a Tanya Harding on NHT. But it's hard to tell since they won't respond to e-mails, calls, whatever. I *hope* NHT gets sold, but given what happened to Vinci Labs, I'm not as hopeful as I was a month ago. Logically, it's stupid not to sell the company. But then, logically, it's stupid to be laying off people, discontinuing lines, closing divisions, leaving existing gear with little or no support, raising/lowering prices seemingly at random, etc, etc.

The good signs? They are releasing the new M80Xd, they are releasing the new AZ-C, and another model, I believe, early next year. The only explanation I can think of for the erratic behavior is that it is being done by bean counters - lower costs, lower inventory, get revenue up, then sell. That kind of makes sense except they're clearly not taking into account the collateral damage to the brand, dealer base, etc. Unless they sell really fast, some of the damage will be likely be permanent.

buzzy_,

We have a comany that introduced a $1800 tower speaker that got universal
"almost" rave reviews, raised the price to over $2000, and now is blowing them out(for lack of a better word) for $999!!!!!!!!
All in a span of about 18 months.

Things can't be good.I'll be the first to say I have no idea what's actually going on. (You don't need to say it, anyone can tell.)

But it might be worth reviewing what's on sale, as it's a far cry from "blowing out" all their speakers ... the Special Dark color, the W1s, and the A1, from what I can see.

Not sure about the Evo sale mentioned - it would be great to have some actual info about that.

As much as people here like the Evos, their appeal isn't obvious to the broader market, and the broader market likes obvious (obviously). So it wouldn't shock me if that wasn't as profitable a line as it ought to be.

I suggest we end all the speculation and wait for some official word from nht. This has become mob mentality. So if one person says, looks like a duck, then the mob says yes it's a duck. Well, what you perceive may have nothing to do with what's actually transpiring. Give the company & what staff remain the benefit of the doubt. After all, you make this fuss because you *care* about their future, correct? :)

That's not the point either. If you're buying new speakers you might want to know where the company is headed. It's just good to be clear what's a fact and what's a guess, and not let the guesses get completely unhinged from the facts.

I've largely got it out of my system. I was told that there would be a "plan" in a few weeks. I don't know why there wasn't a "plan" staring two months ago, but maybe "plan" = "good news".

BUT, NHT is so reliable and good, that I'd jump on any Classic or Evolution deals you can get. They're all just amazingly rock solid.

I just picked up two of the SD Classic Threes and an SD Three Center, does anyone have recommendations for stands for them?

I just picked up two of the SD Classic Threes and an SD Three Center, does anyone have recommendations for stands for them?

John has some Targets that have custom top plates that work quite well. I have a air for my AZ's (28" w/small top plate) and a pair for my 3's (24" w/ bigger top plate).

Brian

Has anyone found out about the Evos? I know John talked about those getting blown out as well, but nobody has them online, and I haven't heard anything about any BM dealers blowing out NHT.

I think I am going to drive to one or two local NHT dealers this afternoon and see what I can dredge up. I'm curious to find out how informed they are about all of this.

Does anyone know if anyone else is slashing prices like this? John, have you heard anything? I'd think selling for so low without NHT giving everyone the go ahead would cut you off from being a distributor, especially with how tight a hold they keep on internet sales.

One Call has the W1 for $299.99 but no X1s or A1s. At least I couldn't find them.

******* has the A1 for $199.97. Looks like you'd still have to find t he X1 somewhere else. I found it from a nonauthorized dealer for $273 shipped.

Does anyone know if anyone else is slashing prices like this? John, have you heard anything? I'd think selling for so low without NHT giving everyone the go ahead would cut you off from being a distributor, especially with how tight a hold they keep on internet sales.

I'm not sure they care as long as the product gets sold at this point, which is part of my "they don't seem to care about the consequences" thing. I don't know if NHT is discontinuing Special Dark or not. They did have a small special on it, but I'm thinking that many these guys bought a bunch and didn't sell it as fast as they thought or maybe its just because the catalog just came out or who knows?

I spoke with a local dealer, Audio Video City in Santa Monica, this afternoon. They did not know what was going on at NHT. Most of what I told them, which was the info I've gleaned from this forum, was new to them.

After I told them about the online pricing they said that they would most certainly be willing to work with me. They might not be able to match it outright, but they would get really, really close.

They will be contacting NHT Monday to try and get any info that they can, but given what little John has been able to extract, I don't expect much.

One thing they did know was that the Evolution was discontinued and they had learned this about 2 weeks ago.

I will most likely buy from them as they were very knowledgeable, no BS types.

A guy at audio advisor told me that there was extra stock of the classic darks and NHT gave them permission to sell those in particular at the prices they are. If you notice the black are regular priced, and I was told that would not change.

******* had near the same pricing. I wonder how long it will last. If they still have the 4s near the same price in a week or two then I might have to get a pair

Of course, Audio Advisor offers a 30 day mbg unlike One Call.

you guys think it's a good idea to use classic three Center for left, right and surrounds? I'm also contemplating about getting classic threes but the three C's seems to be a better deal right now. However, can anyone tell me why the Centers, with 2 bass drivers only gets down to 70hz while the threes goes to 45hz? So yeah, is classic three a better speaker overall except using it as a center?

IMO you would regret buying 3 centers.

I suggest we end all the speculation and wait for some official word from nht. This has become mob mentality. So if one person says, looks like a duck, then the mob says yes it's a duck. Well, what you perceive may have nothing to do with what's actually transpiring. Give the company & what staff remain the benefit of the doubt. After all, you make this fuss because you *care* about their future, correct? :)
That would be the mature thing to do. But not as much fun...

Peter

I'm not sure they care as long as the product gets sold at this point, which is part of my "they don't seem to care about the consequences" thing. I don't know if NHT is discontinuing Special Dark or not. They did have a small special on it, but I'm thinking that many these guys bought a bunch and didn't sell it as fast as they thought or maybe its just because the catalog just came out or who knows?


Alimentall,

Any of the Classic mode 3's left in special dark. for the closeout price?

Audio advisor let me add them last night, (pair) but I didn't pull the trigger.

I was going to this morning and now there doesn't seem to be an option, only for the 2's.

If that doesn't work, you might also contact AA or OC and see if they will / can get more. They might take an order.

BTW, anyone looking for pictures of the Special Dark finish ... some good ones from AudioAdvisor

Two (http://www.audioadvisor.com/images/NHT2SD_G-Large.jpg)
Three C (http://www.audioadvisor.com/images/NHTC3SD_G-Large.jpg)

The first one (or both) may be bigger than your browser will display (in IE, hover the mouse over the lower right corner area to get the icon to expand to full size ... or save it and view it with something else).

It appears the 3's have sold, but they still have the 4's for $999.

So my Friday evening SD Classic 3 order from ******* ended up not working. After calling them when my order status online said 'On Hold', the representative said they were all out, and wouldn't be receiving any more. Since I still have a 3 Center on order from Audio Advisor, does anyone know where I could still find some SD Classic 3's?

Here is a picture of the Special Dark's with a my black TV to refence against...
http://members.cox.net/kaetu/nht%20004.jpg
Works great in my Room with the dark reddish/brown walls...

Alimentall,

Any of the Classic mode 3's left in special dark. for the closeout price?.

Not me, but then, I wasn't closing them out, nor do I have any in stock at the moment.

So my Friday evening SD Classic 3 order from ******* ended up not working. After calling them when my order status online said 'On Hold', the representative said they were all out, and wouldn't be receiving any more. Since I still have a 3 Center on order from Audio Advisor, does anyone know where I could still find some SD Classic 3's?

Hmmmm. Does that mean they really sold out completely? Or that NHT called them and told them to knock it off? Or that they were dropped as a dealer (before *or* after)? Who knows.......

Personally, if NHT were smart, it would delete all of the internet vendors completely and sell both direct and through actual retailers/installers at the same price. I don't see what value AA or ******* or Amazon offers on the typical internet/mail order sale. They have no overhead and most of the time, they're living by using local dealers as demo facilities.

IMO you would regret buying 3 centers.

Why's that?

[...]Personally, if NHT were smart, it would delete all of the internet vendors completely and sell both direct and through actual retailers/installers at the same price[...]

And sell b-stock online

No reason why they can't build or license technology to other vendors, it's done every day in the industry.

I guess I was saying NHT is know for speakers not this type of technology where as Vinic is. Plus it does seem a name change to NHT from Vinic Lab does sound strange to me. Koch bought Georgia Pacific which I work for GP, and they own us and I am pretty sure their want be any name changes. Each company is know for different type of products.
Allen

Here is a picture of the Special Dark's with a my black TV to refence against...

Works great in my Room with the dark reddish/brown walls...

Unlike the 3.3s, you might want to pull those Fours out from the front wall behind them at least a little: ;)

Keith,

If you have the Fours 3' from the back walls, they are going to sound very lean. I would keep them within 2' maximum. 10-18" is an optimum location.

So, thoughts so far on your new Classic surround system as compared to your old Music Series based system with the Evo sub?

Three general NHT questions, out of the thread's context, but you guys would be the guys in the know:
(1) Someone is selling a NIB SubTwoi on ebay. Where would this beast rank in comparison to current NHTs or comparably priced Hsu/SVS subs (let's say $800-1200 range)?

(2) There seem to be a few of the little 8" NHT Pro subs going pretty cheaply on the bay. Thoughts on these? Can they be teamed up with passive speakers?

(3)The little NHT Pro 4.5 drivered speaker is also for sale. If one were to use this as an dorm room ipod speaker, what else would you need to run 'em? The preamp section of a old NAD integrated, for example?

That's not the point either. If you're buying new speakers you might want to know where the company is headed. It's just good to be clear what's a fact and what's a guess, and not let the guesses get completely unhinged from the facts.

Good point, especially something like the XdA and the Controller/Power5 and 2.

(3)The little NHT Pro 4.5 drivered speaker is also for sale. If one were to use this as an dorm room ipod speaker, what else would you need to run 'em? The preamp section of a old NAD integrated, for example?

Anything with a pre-amp, or a source with volume control (computer, iPod, etc.), or just a passive volume control like NHT's.

Three general NHT questions, out of the thread's context, but you guys would be the guys in the know:
(1) Someone is selling a NIB SubTwoi on ebay. Where would this beast rank in comparison to current NHTs or comparably priced Hsu/SVS subs (let's say $800-1200 range)?

(2) There seem to be a few of the little 8" NHT Pro subs going pretty cheaply on the bay. Thoughts on these? Can they be teamed up with passive speakers?

(3)The little NHT Pro 4.5 drivered speaker is also for sale. If one were to use this as an dorm room ipod speaker, what else would you need to run 'em? The preamp section of a old NAD integrated, for example?

Don't know much about the pro subs, but as for the SubTwo and SubTwoi, honestly, I would just get brand new Evolution subs at this point. Asuming John is correct about the closeout prices being approx. 50% of retail, then a brand new U1 will be about $750 and a U2 set $800. The Evo sub driver, while not exactly a SVS Plus driver itself, is definitely better than the SubTwoi's driver. The Evo driver is prolly about equivalent to SVS' NSD driver.

Dual W1s will be like $1300 (since you still only need one X1), or simply adding another A1 to a U2 set in order to have true stereo bass will only tack on another $200 or so, so figure about $1000 for a stereo U2 set.

The question is though, is NHT still accepting X1s for the 20 Hz mod ($50) at this point?

As for SVS subs, what would prolly be most comparable to a U2 set is dual SB12 Pluses, but at this point, I would recommend the U2 at their closeout price instead. Emotiva also has a comparable model to the U2, but you could get a stereo U2 set (with an optional second A1 amp) for about the same price.

Basically, the Evolution subs have just become prolly THE absolute best buy for the $$$ on the sub market today.

Ditto for the M5/M6 on the monitor speaker market. Basically, you can now get a pair of Stereophile Class A rated M6s for like $700! :eek:

Unlike the 3.3s, you might want to pull those Fours out from the front wall behind them at least a little: ;)
So, thoughts so far on your new Classic surround system as compared to your old Music Series based system with the Evo sub?

Actually, they are exactly 12" out from the wall...

The Classics were a comprimise since the 3.3's and 2.9's just physically dominated the room... I think the price/performance of the Classics is excellent and they look great. I certainly like them better than the Evolution setup I had in the room at one point... the Evolutions have a rough on/off axis response in the mids due to the F.I.G. design that my ears do not agree with.

Most people have never heard the 3.3's or 2.9's driven by good electronics... and by good, I mean NOT any receiver or cheapo seperates. They are truly some of the best speakers to ever hit the market and a steal at their used prices. You can pick up 3.3's for about $1500.00-$2000.00 and 2.9's for just under a thousand... smokin deals! I compared the Fours to the 3.3's in my 2-channel room... sorry, but the 3.3's are at a whole different level of refinement.

Three general NHT questions, out of the thread's context, but you guys would be the guys in the know:
(1) Someone is selling a NIB SubTwoi on ebay. Where would this beast rank in comparison to current NHTs or comparably priced Hsu/SVS subs (let's say $800-1200 range)?

(2) There seem to be a few of the little 8" NHT Pro subs going pretty cheaply on the bay. Thoughts on these? Can they be teamed up with passive speakers?

(3)The little NHT Pro 4.5 drivered speaker is also for sale. If one were to use this as an dorm room ipod speaker, what else would you need to run 'em? The preamp section of a old NAD integrated, for example?

I owned a SubTwoi for a while... it's a nice sub, but it is pretty hard to beat the U1 with a 20hz mod... the opposing 12" drivers is a great design that helps minimize actual movement of the cabinet which affects performance...

Has anyone seen the U1 discounted for that much, or have seen it for all online at all for that matter. Listenup is my local NHT dealer, but they don't sell any evolution stuff.

So my Friday evening SD Classic 3 order from ******* ended up not working. After calling them when my order status online said 'On Hold', the representative said they were all out, and wouldn't be receiving any more. Since I still have a 3 Center on order from Audio Advisor, does anyone know where I could still find some SD Classic 3's?


I was able to order them through AA, I called them and they said they were sold out but would be getting more within 5-10 days and I placed an order for a Pair of SB classic 3's, a pair of SB classic 2's and the SB classic 3 center.

I will post back when the ship or I find they don't get them etc...
AA said they won't charge me until they all ship together, I asked for it to be that way because if I don't get the SB 3's I don't want the entire package.

I was able to order them through AA, I called them and they said they were sold out but would be getting more within 5-10 days and I placed an order for a Pair of SB classic 3's, a pair of SB classic 2's and the SB classic 3 center.

I will post back when the ship or I find they don't get them etc...
AA said they won't charge me until they all ship together, I asked for it to be that way because if I don't get the SB 3's I don't want the entire package.

When did you place your order?

When did you place your order?

About 4 hours ago this morning.

Actually, they are exactly 12" out from the wall...

The Classics were a comprimise since the 3.3's and 2.9's just physically dominated the room... I think the price/performance of the Classics is excellent and they look great. I certainly like them better than the Evolution setup I had in the room at one point... the Evolutions have a rough on/off axis response in the mids due to the F.I.G. design that my ears do not agree with.

Most people have never heard the 3.3's or 2.9's driven by good electronics... and by good, I mean NOT any receiver or cheapo seperates. They are truly some of the best speakers to ever hit the market and a steal at their used prices. You can pick up 3.3's for about $1500.00-$2000.00 and 2.9's for just under a thousand... smokin deals! I compared the Fours to the 3.3's in my 2-channel room... sorry, but the 3.3's are at a whole different level of refinement.

You must have had M6s instead of M5s. Jack has even commented about that "blip" you are referring to on M6s that, luckily, for whatever reason, simply isn't present on the M5s:

The M6 has a slight 2kHz resonance in the midrange that we weren't able to get rid of. This bothers me both because I know it is there, and I hear it in the speaker. Or maybe I only hear it, because I know it's there:)

The M5 has better midrange tonality than the M6.

I prefer the M5 over the M6.

M5s actually had an even smoother "normal listening position window" (as opposed to direct on-axis) average response than Xds, much less Classics, according to HTM. ;)

M5s/T5s:

http://nhthifi.com/2006/press/reviews/evolution_ht.pdf

Xds:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/1105nht/index2.html

Fours/Threes:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/completesystems/407nht/index2.html

The best sound I've ever heard on the 3.3s/2.9s (even in 2 channel only) was with the NHT Controller/Power5 (with the latest software update on the Controller that includes Deq for "Legacy" models). IMO, it even topped the NAD M3, which if it isn't the best integrated amp on the marker today, it is certainly without a doubt one of the best.

Fours do some things better than 3.3s IMO, just as 3.3s do some things better than Fours. However, to me, they are both a little too "hot" and bright. I can listen to M5s literally all day long without ever any getting listener's fatigue whatsoever, and I can't say the same about either the Fours or the 3.3s. :o

BTW, 'bout time to change your signature now, isn't it? :D

Imo, it's time to start putting $ aside for another whole speaker upgrade. Who knows, we could be lining up for the evo replacements sooner than later. Hopefully we all haven't purchased out last set of of nht, time will tell. Now go work on that explantion for the waf as to why these are needed when you 'just bought a whole bunch of new speakers or whatever'. :)

FWIW. I added the bold to the "Last month" sentence (all the rest of the bold is theirs!):Audio Advisor Special Announcement

Dear ,

Every once in a while we get a deal so great we just have to tell our loyal customers about it. This is such a deal and that's why I'm sending you this special limited time offer.

Announcing our best deal EVER on the complete line of NHT Classic Series in "Special Dark" finish. While supplies last Save 52% to 71% on these superb-sounding speakers from audio legend NHT.

Last month, was the end of NHT's fiscal year end. They wanted to end their year with a BANG! and lighten their inventory. They decided to clear out their remaining stock of the popular Classic Series in Special Dark finish.

Once-In-A-Lifetime Sale!

Deals like this don't come around often. When they do, you must act quickly or forever regret your delay.

What's Special About Special Dark?

The first thing that's special about NHT's Special Dark finish is the high gloss acrylic finish. It's designed to reflect and mimic the colors and finishes in your room! If you have wood floors and wood furniture they will give a natural wood hue to the speaker. If your room is dark or even black these speakers will be as black as a starless winter night. In short, these NHT speakers will blend into almost any room decor!

The second thing that's special about these speakers is, of course, the great sound. One listen and you'll fall in love with their precise imaging, transparency, detail and excellent bass. They've won awards from every leading audio review publication -- including "System of the Year" award from The Perfect Vision, "Speaker of the Year" honors from The Absolute Sound and "A Superb Value" rating by Stereophile magazine.

NHT Classic Series-
Special Dark Finish Sale!

Brand New With A Full
Five-Year Factory Warranty

Grab Then Now Before They Are Gone

At these huge savings these speakers are sure to sell fast. We recommend you, do not delay, and go to our website and order it right now before someone else grabs the last one. Or call us toll-free (800) 942-0220 and place your order today.

Good Listening,

Wayne Schuurman, President
Audio Advisor, Inc

anyone knows where I can buy the x2 crossover online?

anyone knows where I can buy the x2 crossover online?

Audio Advisor has the X2 for $350. I haven't seen it online from an official dealer anywhere else.

If you have wood floors and wood furniture they will give a natural wood hue to the speaker.

They might look good in a room like that, but unfortunately they will sound like crap in it. :p

Audio Advisor has the X2 for $350. I haven't seen it online from an official dealer anywhere else.

Thanks. I'm still deciding if I should buy them for my classic fours. For some reason, I'm running them full range and there's almost no bass to be heard, not to mention felt. Right now I'm powering them with my old denon 2801. Did I do something wrong? I know getting a new receiver helps, but I just want to know if the lack of bass w/o a1 is normal.

A receiver question also. I have an Onkyo 705 and I'm wondering if it would handle the Classic 4's well. I am also considering B & W 683's and Rocket 850's. The 4's are rated as 86dB sensitive and the B&W's and Rockets between 90-91.5. Any comments on the receiver question would be helpful and if anyone has heard the Classic 4's and the other 2 speakers I mentioned and would like to comment on their impressions, it would be most welcome. Thanks!

We are also authorized for NHT online and have purchased a sizeable amount of the Evo closesout specials. Let us know if there's anything we can help with.

Has anyone compared the classic 3 centers to any of the axiom line? I have axiom M22 bookshelves, but I ordered one of the closeout classic 3c's because my center is crap...

We are also authorized for NHT online and have purchased a sizeable amount of the Evo closesout specials. Let us know if there's anything we can help with.

Do you have three M5's? If so, how much? Thanks!

Thanks. I'm still deciding if I should buy them for my classic fours. For some reason, I'm running them full range and there's almost no bass to be heard, not to mention felt. Right now I'm powering them with my old denon 2801. Did I do something wrong? I know getting a new receiver helps, but I just want to know if the lack of bass w/o a1 is normal.

I believe the Fours are bi-amp capable. Is it possible that you are only driving the front driver array and not the 10" woofers? There should be two sets of binding posts, one for high and one for low, and some type of bar or cable joining the RED positives together and one connecting the BLACK negatives when in non-biamp mode. If you already know this, please disregard my post!

Any one find any M-00's on cleaeance???? Wishful thinking I know, but they would be damm nice in my office!

Or, is it possible you have the receiver settings set for a sub - speakers set to small, with a crossover that's cutting off the low end?

Thanks. I'm still deciding if I should buy them for my classic fours. For some reason, I'm running them full range and there's almost no bass to be heard, not to mention felt. Right now I'm powering them with my old denon 2801. Did I do something wrong? I know getting a new receiver helps, but I just want to know if the lack of bass w/o a1 is normal.

Well, assuming what the previous posts have mentioned is not the issue here, for one thing, you really could use a little more power than that for them.

How big is the room? If you get over say 3500 cubic feet, IMO, that is too big a room for them, and the bass will be too lean (conversely, just as it will oppositely be obviously too "boomy" in too small of a room).

Another thing is placement - are they too far from the front wall behind them? They should be absolutely no more than 18" away, and preferably even a little closer than that, but yet not too close.

Has anyone compared the classic 3 centers to any of the axiom line? I have axiom M22 bookshelves, but I ordered one of the closeout classic 3c's because my center is crap...

I like some M22s better than Threes, but not Axiom M22s though. :p;):D:cool:

Any one find any M-00's on cleaeance???? Wishful thinking I know, but they would be damm nice in my office!

Not that I know of, but I like AZs with an external amp, like the Sherbourn 2/75 more than the M-00s. Better tweeter, better midbass. A little bigger though.

Audio Advisor has the M-00 at $249.95/ea..which they say is 38% off retail price..however, it kind of confuses me. are both the left and right speakers on this the same? Also, I thought they were 499 before the 15% markup, which would make them $286.92/ea after the markup..not the $403.00 they had listed. who knows. I'd go with Alimentall with the get a pair of AZs and an external amp. I'm almost tempted to get a pair of classic fours and stick my threes on computer speaker duty.. Unfortunately, I'd have to upgrade electronics to power the fours and I don't want to do that at the moment.

Audio Advisor has the M-00 at $249.95/ea..which they say is 38% off retail price..however, it kind of confuses me. are both the left and right speakers on this the same?

The M-00's is that they were always $400 each, and $250 each is basically the regular street price. So their "sale" is not really any different than their previous regular price. I was eyeing these for a while and they've always been $500/pr everywhere. No need to "rush" to get this "deal" unlike the Classics which are a real discount.

Yea, I have really been considering going with AZ's, I like the ones I am using for rears at home....But size is an issue, and space for the amp, and think the AZ's would attract more attention=theft potenial at the office....

But the more I think about it....AZ'z with an emotiva bpa1 (2/75 for $129) Hmmmm....

I assume the people looking at the AZs know about the pricing on the Classic 2s in Special Dark - if not, another option.

We are also authorized for NHT online and have purchased a sizeable amount of the Evo closesout specials. Let us know if there's anything we can help with.

Is the T5 price on your site correct? Got me thinking....

I assume the people looking at the AZs know about the pricing on the Classic 2s in Special Dark - if not, another option.

2's are a little big for my desk :) And there is some debate that the AZ may have a better tweater....Not that I know enough to argue one way or the other....but check back a few pages.

i just saw the price for the T5 on the site. anyone should jump on that deal!!!!!

Everybody has to fit their own situation. But ...

Most of the AZ to Two comparisons took into account the price - different calculation at the moment maybe.

And fwiw ... "You would definitely appreciate the extra push given to the mid-bass having a pair of Twos up front as opposed to the ... Absolute Zeros. ... on the Twos I actually caught myself putting my hand on the Ten sub just to ensure it wasn’t being used." - link (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/nht-classic-2/page-3)

And who can forget the immortal words, "The Two offers deeper bass and output. ... I’d argue that the Two matches the performance of the M5 in most ways and may have a better overall tonal balance. It has more of that “fun” sound ... that made the SuperOne a classic. "

Guys, there's a metal strip connecting the highs and lows, I left the strips there to run full range according to the instructions.

I set the LR to large and subwoofer off, and the room should be 3000cf or less. The speakers is 6 inches away from the wall.

Any other suggestions? The bass is really, really weak even if I turn it up, by then the higher frequencies get really loud. A newer receiver isn't gonna help the low end that much right?

Anyone has the Classic 12 sub? How good is it?

I currently has a infinity 10" sub. and just got into the deal with Classic 3s, 3C and 2s as 5.1. I am considering the Classic 12 sub to replace my infinity 10" sub.
Should I go with the Classic 12? as it is on sale too.
Thanks.

Guys, there's a metal strip connecting the highs and lows, I left the strips there to run full range according to the instructions.

I set the LR to large and subwoofer off, and the room should be 3000cf or less. The speakers is 6 inches away from the wall.

Any other suggestions? The bass is really, really weak even if I turn it up, by then the higher frequencies get really loud. A newer receiver isn't gonna help the low end that much right?

I guess the only thing left to do is ship the Fours to me and be done with it. :D Just kidding! From what most say, the Fours nearly eliminate the need for a sub so you should have excellent bass.

1. Does it sound like there is cancellation?
2. Is there bass if you stand in the corner of the room?
3. Is there no bass on all sources you use, radio, CD, DVD, etc?
4. Do you have another speaker you can swap into that spot to see if the new speaker has bass?

Just wanted to note that hidef lifestyle has the U1 and U2 for a crazy good price.

But the more I think about it....AZ'z with an emotiva bpa1 (2/75 for $129) Hmmmm....

I was going to suggest that exact same combo! I just noticed the sale. Is that being discontinued or something? I'd been considering getting one for my bedroom rather than putting more money into repairs on my Pioneer SX-737 (powering SuperZero XUs)...

Wow, only a $50 difference between the M5 and M6. I'm wondering if three of either the M5s or M6s would be that much better at movies and music than the Classic Threes + 3C center. They seem to have unlimited flexibility in how and where you mount them.

can the u1 be use w/ any speaker?
(on the x1 spec: only use w/ evo line)

Just wanted to note that hidef lifestyle has the U1 and U2 for a crazy good price.

can the u1 be use w/ any speaker?
(on the x1 spec: only use w/ evo line)

Yep. That line means that you use the X1 only with evolution subs. Any speakers will work. You'll need a receiver with either a sub out/bass management or pre-outs/main-ins, though.

That's an amazing price. I wouldn't hesitate to buy.

We are also authorized for NHT online and have purchased a sizeable amount of the Evo closesout specials. Let us know if there's anything we can help with.

Just a note, I went to the NHT online and I don't find hideflifestyle as one of its authorized dealers.

Also for HiDefLifestyle, anymore t6's available? Thanks.

I guess the only thing left to do is ship the Fours to me and be done with it. :D Just kidding! From what most say, the Fours nearly eliminate the need for a sub so you should have excellent bass.

1. Does it sound like there is cancellation?
2. Is there bass if you stand in the corner of the room?
3. Is there no bass on all sources you use, radio, CD, DVD, etc?
4. Do you have another speaker you can swap into that spot to see if the new speaker has bass?

My main question is, the fours even w/o external amp to its 10inch woofer should have plenty of bass? Mine feel like classic threes w/ no bass...

I'm going home to double check the connections again. This is driving me crazy.

Sounds like the polarity is reversed.

Happens ot the best of us.

oh and sorry for asking too many questions. Is u1 better or u2? Which one has deeper bass and which one has better bass definition?

Sounds like the polarity is reversed.

Happens ot the best of us.

I'll look into that. Thank you.

oh and sorry for asking too many questions. Is u1 better or u2? Which one has deeper bass and which one has better bass definition?


They are basically equal in both extension and output. They both have some advantages over each other that the other does not have. However, if you get dual W1s/A1s (you would still need only 1 X1 for them), then you would have the best of all worlds, especially if you get the 20 Hz mod for the X1. :D

With the prices they are now available for, they have all of the sudden become THE absolute best buy that there is right now on the sub market bar none.

Just a note, I went to the NHT online and I don't find hideflifestyle as one of its authorized dealers.

Also for HiDefLifestyle, anymore t6's available? Thanks.


If you can't find any, I have some. I don't come here to sell NHT, just discuss it, but I did buy the last 5 sets, as I understand it.

Wow, only a $50 difference between the M5 and M6. I'm wondering if three of either the M5s or M6s would be that much better at movies and music than the Classic Threes + 3C center. They seem to have unlimited flexibility in how and where you mount them.

Definitely better on movies, and better on certain kinds of music, such as hard rock. I would recommend Classics over Evolutions only on certain kinds of music, and even then it would dependent on the room they were going in.

Guys, there's a metal strip connecting the highs and lows, I left the strips there to run full range according to the instructions.

I set the LR to large and subwoofer off, and the room should be 3000cf or less. The speakers is 6 inches away from the wall.

Any other suggestions? The bass is really, really weak even if I turn it up, by then the higher frequencies get really loud. A newer receiver isn't gonna help the low end that much right?


Providing all your connections are OK, I think it may simply a matter of your Denon AVR just doesn't have enough juice for them.

According to HiDef Lifestyle they are an official online dealer. I talked to them this morning about the U1 (before it was on the website) and they said they could get one shipped directly from NHT to me. I'm picking one up tomorrow (pay day)

Anyone has the Classic 12 sub? How good is it?

I currently has a infinity 10" sub. and just got into the deal with Classic 3s, 3C and 2s as 5.1. I am considering the Classic 12 sub to replace my infinity 10" sub.
Should I go with the Classic 12? as it is on sale too.
Thanks.

Even at half price, get any Evo sub or subs at their current close out prices, or either a SVS PB10 NSD instead. You'll thank me later. ;)

Only if I can sell off some of my other subs....dual U1 seem very nice for music

Yep. That line means that you use the X1 only with evolution subs. Any speakers will work. You'll need a receiver with either a sub out/bass management or pre-outs/main-ins, though.

That's an amazing price. I wouldn't hesitate to buy.

A receiver question also. I have an Onkyo 705 and I'm wondering if it would handle the Classic 4's well. I am also considering B & W 683's and Rocket 850's. The 4's are rated as 86dB sensitive and the B&W's and Rockets between 90-91.5. Any comments on the receiver question would be helpful and if anyone has heard the Classic 4's and the other 2 speakers I mentioned and would like to comment on their impressions, it would be most welcome. Thanks!


IMO, that Onkyo would not do the Fours justice unless you bi-amped them with an X2/a1s with it, assuming it has at least a set of pre-outs for the main L/R, as miky702 is likely now finding out with his Denon.

Only if I can sell off some of my other subs....dual U1 seem very nice for music

They are. For the $$$, you simply can't top them right now. ;)

Do you have three M5's? If so, how much? Thanks!


You'd just as well go ahead and get two more to get a free A1 and W2. :cool:

Thanks for all the suggestions. Can someone educate me on the following matter?

1. The bass is louder now, after I turned the receiver's bass all the way up. It's more satisfying than before, but still only if I turn the overall volume pretty high. Is there anyway to increase the lower frequencies w/o touching the higher ones? Maybe an equalizer?

2. Bass from hiphop music seemed much more prominent than bass from 20-30hz movie scenes. Maybe 30hz is too hard for my receiver or the fours to reproduce, and I'm wondering how low do those hiphop bass usually go?

3. What is the 20hz mod for x1 crossover? How is it done?

4. I'm thinking about getting either u1/u2 for even more bass, but are they really more of a musical sub than one for movies? I'd like one that can give me that floor-shaking, heart-pounding feel. For $1000, is there a better alternative? I'm guessing hsu VTF3HO or svs pb12plus go deeper and louder? Can two u1s or u2s compare to just one pb12/plus2?

Oh I got some answers from another forum to my question 2. Does it sound right?

sub-20Hz is the "feel the room pressurize" range, while the kick drum "chest slam" is in the higher audible mid-bass. That slam goes away if you have dips in the 60-100Hz range. Of course 30-60Hz can be pretty powerful as well.

If you can't find any, I have some. I don't come here to sell NHT, just discuss it, but I did buy the last 5 sets, as I understand it.

We are authorized both for our showroom in PA as well as online. We have 5 of the T5's and 5 of the T6's on the way to us.

Is the T5 price on your site correct? Got me thinking....

Price is correct.

How much is the T6? It's not shown in the website.

So x1 cannot be used on classic fours? It has to mate w/ x2?

Miky702:

Try this little test. Remove the jumpers and connect the speaker wire just to the bottom binding posts of each speaker. Then play some music with deep bass. Make sure that the woofers of each of your Fours is actually functional.

I received a set of the Fours from Audio Advisor yesterday and one of the woofers was disconnected at the crossover. I thought they were a little bass light too, tried the test I described and heard no bass from the right side woofer. Reconnecting the wire at the binding post (easy fix) got me back the bass that was lacking.

We are authorized both for our showroom in PA as well as online. We have 5 of the T5's and 5 of the T6's on the way to us.

Could be. I was told that there were 5 sets left and I bought them and they arrived a week ago. But I have no idea what's going on at NHT aside from pure chaos.

We are authorized both for our showroom in PA as well as online. We have 5 of the T5's and 5 of the T6's on the way to us.I'm assuming that is 5 pairs each. What was the original price for the T5s?

Could be. I was told that there were 5 sets left and I bought them and they arrived a week ago. But I have no idea what's going on at NHT aside from pure chaos.

Evidently, they're telling every dealer who orders them something to the effect of "you got the last of the last". ;)

I'm assuming that is 5 pairs each. What was the original price for the T5s?


$2500 per pair, which would have now been $2875 if they were still a current model after the recent 15% price hike.

So x1 cannot be used on classic fours? It has to mate w/ x2?

Correct, X1 is for the Evo subs only. The X2 is for everything else. They are basically identical except that the X1 provides equalization specifically for the Evo sub cabinets.

Evidently, they're telling every dealer who orders them something to the effect of "you got the last of the last". ;)

Could be. They said they had "5 or 6 left". I said "give me all of them" and then I received 5 sets. Maybe they had 25. But they weren't on the Evolution blow out program sheet. Only T5s. HiDef might want to make sure they actually shipped him his T6s, because they might be in my storage room right now :)

3. What is the 20hz mod for x1 crossover? How is it done?

4. I'm thinking about getting either u1/u2 for even more bass, but are they really more of a musical sub than one for movies? I'd like one that can give me that floor-shaking, heart-pounding feel. For $1000, is there a better alternative? I'm guessing hsu VTF3HO or svs pb12plus go deeper and louder? Can two u1s or u2s compare to just one pb12/plus2?


3 - call NHT's 800 # on their website and ask for Matt. It is $50 (assuming they are still doing it at this point).

4 - I wouldn't do that if I were you. I would just add an X2 and A1s to the Fours, or, either get a pair of Threes to add to the Evo subs. The Evo subs are better suited for music IMO, but dual W1s with the 20 Hz X1 mod will IMO top a single PB12 Plus in everything except below 20 Hz extension.

Could be. They said they had "5 or 6 left". I said "give me all of them" and then I received 5 sets. Maybe they had 25. But they weren't on the Evolution blow out program sheet. Only T5s. HiDef might want to make sure they actually shipped him his T6s, because they might be in my storage room right now :)


I've heard that the L5s are not being discontinued and blown out at these prices, true?

Also, what about P5s/P6s? Of course, if they're not, it's just as cheap now to simply buy B5s/B6s just to use as stands. :p

Evidently, they're telling every dealer who orders them something to the effect of "you got the last of the last". ;)

They've been telling us they have "plenty" left on most of the models...

They've been telling us they have "plenty" left on most of the models...


Does the "buy 5 M5s/M6s, get a free A1 & W2" still apply now at these closeout prices?

I'm assuming that is 5 pairs each. What was the original price for the T5s?

You had VT-2.4s, correct? If so, get the T5s and then sell the 2.4s. You'll thank me later. :D

I received a set of the Fours from Audio Advisor yesterday and one of the woofers was disconnected at the crossover. I thought they were a little bass light too, tried the test I described and heard no bass from the right side woofer. Reconnecting the wire at the binding post (easy fix) got me back the bass that was lacking.

How do you like 'em so far?

Miky702:

Try this little test. Remove the jumpers and connect the speaker wire just to the bottom binding posts of each speaker. Then play some music with deep bass. Make sure that the woofers of each of your Fours is actually functional.

I received a set of the Fours from Audio Advisor yesterday and one of the woofers was disconnected at the crossover. I thought they were a little bass light too, tried the test I described and heard no bass from the right side woofer. Reconnecting the wire at the binding post (easy fix) got me back the bass that was lacking.

I'm pretty sure all the speakers are properly connected to the receiver. I played w/ all the settings on it. The bass is much more prominent now, still not enough for me however.

Are you satisfied with the four's low end?

mark russ, thanks for the suggestions. I'd prob get a u1.

Does the "buy 5 M5s/M6s, get a free A1 & W2" still apply now at these closeout prices?

As long as NHT has stock, yes.

As long as NHT has stock, yes.

Thanks. :)

I'm pretty sure all the speakers are properly connected to the receiver.I don't think you understood my post. In the Classic Four I have at home the woofer was disconnected internally. It was properly connected to my amp (with bi-wire cables) but the woofer wasn't making any noise because one of the internal cables had come loose.

I think with both woofers working, the Classic Fours have plenty of bass. A U1 isn't going to buy you much greater extension, although it should significantly increase output capability of the system.

What is a better setup for HT use.

A pair of u1's (2 speakers), or two sets of u2's (4 speakers)?

Just wondering if is the same difference.

What is a better setup for HT use.

A pair of u1's (2 speakers), or two sets of u2's (4 speakers)?

Just wondering if is the same difference.

Well, with 4 W2s, you could certainly put this theory to the test: ;)

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

Personally though, I'd go with dual W1s.

I always thought it would be even better if you had 8 subs, four also in the upper corners of the room, not that it would be easy to do. That would largely cancel all three main modes in the room.

Well, with 4 W2s, you could certainly put this theory to the test: ;)

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

Personally though, I'd go with dual W1s.

Great read. Page 28 sums it up pretty well. One sub front, one rear. Time to save up for two PB13 Ultras.:eek:

Well, with 4 W2s, you could certainly put this theory to the test: ;)

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

Personally though, I'd go with dual W1s.

Interesting document. Thanks for posting.

Great read. Page 28 sums it up pretty well. One sub front, one rear. Time to save up for two PB13 Ultras.:eek:

Yeah but that means 2 subwoofers on 2 wall midpoints. Not the easiest thing to do when you have to consider WAF and furniture.

:)

You had VT-2.4s, correct? If so, get the T5s and then sell the 2.4s. You'll thank me later. :DI still have them. The T5s sound very tempting.

I still have them. The T5s sound very tempting.

Plus, the M5 is also a much better matching CC speaker than the VS-2.4 too. :cool:

You should hear "Child In Time" cranked on T5s. :D

What is a better setup for HT use.

A pair of u1's (2 speakers), or two sets of u2's (4 speakers)?

Just wondering if is the same difference.
J... a pair of U1's would be spectacular...
The 20hz mod to the X1 is essential...

BTW... you are one of the VERY FEW posters on the net whose input possesses sound reasoning and a degree of validity... and that comes from working professional Audio and Video engineer...

Peter, the only thing is that you don't want to use the 20Hz mod unless your room is about 25' long or more. Otherwise, the extra bass largely cancels and you just lose dynamics.

I don't think you understood my post. In the Classic Four I have at home the woofer was disconnected internally. It was properly connected to my amp (with bi-wire cables) but the woofer wasn't making any noise because one of the internal cables had come loose.

I think with both woofers working, the Classic Fours have plenty of bass. A U1 isn't going to buy you much greater extension, although it should significantly increase output capability of the system.

you're talking the metal clips connecting four's highs and lows? I made sure they're connected properly and I could definitely hear some bass coming out from the woofer, but it's not what I hope for. I need to crank the system up quite a bit to get adequate bass. I just checked my receiver again. It says 90watts/channel. Is that too weak for the fours?

Still, the fours sound much better overall than my older polk speakers hands down. I still think a u1 or u2 sub systems w/ 250w would do well in my room. You think I should select fours as "small" w/ a dedicated sub?

Another question for all of ya(I know), does the m6 play movies much louder than m5? Just wanna know how much better m6 is when compared to m5.

you're talking the metal clips connecting four's highs and lows? No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the wire connecting the woofer inside the speaker. One more try, and then I give up. Remove the metal clips that connect the four's highs and lows. Then attach the speaker wire to the bottom binding posts only.

Do this for first for the left and then for the right speakers. Then play music with low bass. What you should hear is rumbling, that's all. There should be rumbling from the left and right speakers. If you hear rumbling, then the woofers are functioning properly.

If they are, then I'd say you have a placement issue: perhaps you are getting some nulls that are causing low bass to sound weak. If that is the case, then a dedicated sub that you can position in a corner (generally the best place for bass) will be helpful.

J... a pair of U1's would be spectacular...
The 20hz mod to the X1 is essential...


______________________

NHT 3.3 Mains, NHT AudioCenter 2, NHT 2.9 Rears, NHT U1 Sub w/20hz mod, SONY SXRD 60" 1080p, DENON DVD-5910, SONY TA-P9000ES Preamp, BRYSTON 4BSST and POWERPACK Amplifiers...






At the moment for one of my systems I use corner located dual stacked SW-2Pi's crossed at 50 Hz with a 20 Hz HP filter amplifier mod. This works very well, but I am pushing the capabilities of the subwoofer at times.

I am going to setup a second system soon with NHT 2.9's for the main speakers. The U1 has dual drivers, but it is a sealed speaker.

I notice that you use one U1 Sub with the 20 Hz mod. Is that adequate for HT use?

you're talking the metal clips connecting four's highs and lows? I made sure they're connected properly and I could definitely hear some bass coming out from the woofer, but it's not what I hope for. I need to crank the system up quite a bit to get adequate bass. I just checked my receiver again. It says 90watts/channel. Is that too weak for the fours?




What speakers are you using for the center and surrounds?

I always thought it would be even better if you had 8 subs, four also in the upper corners of the room, not that it would be easy to do. That would largely cancel all three main modes in the room.



One high in the rear and two low in the front may be all that is needed.

No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the wire connecting the woofer inside the speaker. One more try, and then I give up. Remove the metal clips that connect the four's highs and lows. Then attach the speaker wire to the bottom binding posts only.

I usually just touch the grill and push til I feel if the woofer is vibrating, but I suppose that works too ;)

One high in the rear and two low in the front may be all that is needed.

Yes, but then you don't have an excuse to have 8 subs!

Hey everyone, I'm debating on getting a U1 or U2. I have a room that I currently am running a Velodyne SPL1200 in. My room has vaulted ceilings and here's an attached illustration.

Any suggestions?

http://www.mmsean.com/sale/AVR.jpg

U1/U2 are practically the same, except the U2 comes in 2 cabinets that require *precise* placement, whereas U1 is more flexible. I would get a U1 & place it in that free corner in upper left of your picture at a diagonal, about 18" from corner (see evolution user's guide for more details). For sure, no way do you want the sub right up against the sofa as in the pic. :)

Sorry those red things are table lamps and the things they are sitting on are end tables :)

How big is this file? Holy cow, I can't seem to latch on to it! Or maybe my computer is just getting old and cranky.

Oh...they also look like jet fans, maybe useful for ultra realistic FX.

Great thread. Just picked up my Classic 4s and 3C last night from my local dealer. All looked new in the box. Got a question. The build date on the 3C and one of the 4s is 06/20/06 and the other 4 is 08/15/06. One, is it normal that newly purchased NHTs would have a build date 17 months back? Two, should I be concerned about one 4 being built 2 months later than the other? Thanks in advance.

What would be the better placement for a Classic 3C:

1) Top shelf of my tv cabinet. This is a bit lower than the left and right speakers

2) On top of the tv cabinet, in front of the TV. This places it level with the woofers of my Classic 3s. However, there is no room behind the speakers.

Great thread. Just picked up my Classic 4s and 3C last night from my local dealer. All looked new in the box. Got a question. The build date on the 3C and one of the 4s is 06/20/06 and the other 4 is 08/15/06. One, is it normal that newly purchased NHTs would have a build date 17 months back? Two, should I be concerned about one 4 being built 2 months later than the other? Thanks in advance.

It's not really an issue. It is interesting though. I don't know whether they built way more than can be sold in a short amount of time or it could simply be that the dealer had them sitting there in the back (behind newer stock) or it could have been that they got pulled out of the back of the storage room. NHT doesn't seem to ship first in, first out. It seems more like whatever is handy.

What would be the better placement for a Classic 3C:

1) Top shelf of my tv cabinet. This is a bit lower than the left and right speakers

2) On top of the tv cabinet, in front of the TV. This places it level with the woofers of my Classic 3s. However, there is no room behind the speakers.

Probably 2.

Thanks for the reply John. My local dealer doesn't stock 4s so they had to order them. Took a week to get in. Don't know if they came from a bigger dealer upstream or direct from NHT. I called NHT last night about it. Asked how often manufacturing takes place. Was told once a year so was thinking some 4s must have been made summer of 07? Asked if having one 4 made 2 months later than the other would matter. She suggested transferring me to engineering/tech support. Ended up in Jack's voicemail so I left a message. It's been discussed that small changes are made during an NHT speaker's life cycle. So I'm interested in knowing if any little tweak was made between the June and August runs in 2006. Also if more recent 4 builds have a little advantage over ones built 17 months ago obviously I'd prefer them. What build dates for 4s have you seen at your place? Thanks.

U1/U2 are practically the same, except the U2 comes in 2 cabinets that require *precise* placement, whereas U1 is more flexible. I would get a U1 & place it in that free corner in upper left of your picture at a diagonal, about 18" from corner (see evolution user's guide for more details). For sure, no way do you want the sub right up against the sofa as in the pic. :)


Actually, the W2s are more versatile and flexible in their placement options, and the W1 should be at least 4' away from any boundary to it's drivers. :p

I notice that you use one U1 Sub with the 20 Hz mod. Is that adequate for HT use?

FWIW, Jack recommends the 20 Hz x1 mod only for systems that have a total of at least four Evo sub drivers in any combination of cabinets in it.

Great thread. Just picked up my Classic 4s and 3C last night from my local dealer. All looked new in the box. Got a question. The build date on the 3C and one of the 4s is 06/20/06 and the other 4 is 08/15/06. One, is it normal that newly purchased NHTs would have a build date 17 months back? Two, should I be concerned about one 4 being built 2 months later than the other? Thanks in advance.

Should be no problem. They don't have identical twin manufacturing to ultra close tolerances like the 3,3s and VT-3s did. Just make sure you got a mirror imaged, separate L/R matching pair though so that the sub drivers aren't both facing in the same direction. :p

Thanks for the reply John. My local dealer doesn't stock 4s so they had to order them. Took a week to get in. Don't know if they came from a bigger dealer upstream or direct from NHT. I called NHT last night about it. Asked how often manufacturing takes place. Was told once a year so was thinking some 4s must have been made summer of 07? Asked if having one 4 made 2 months later than the other would matter. She suggested transferring me to engineering/tech support. Ended up in Jack's voicemail so I left a message. It's been discussed that small changes are made during an NHT speaker's life cycle. So I'm interested in knowing if any little tweak was made between the June and August runs in 2006. Also if more recent 4 builds have a little advantage over ones built 17 months ago obviously I'd prefer them. What build dates for 4s have you seen at your place? Thanks.

I'd have to look, my bedroom speakers are some of the first ones built. I don't think there were any tweaks done. There was talk of it, playing around with updated versions of the domes, but I don't think that ever happened and I'm 99.9% sure it didn't happen in 2006. I'm only about 95% sure it didn't happen in 2007.

FWIW, Jack recommends the 20 Hz x1 mod only for systems that have a total of at least four Evo sub drivers in any combination of cabinets in it.


I am tempted to buy 4 U2's, and stack them in a corner crossed to the mains at 50 Hz. Still not sure if sealed subwoofers will provide a decent amount of "impact" like ported subwoofers gives you.

Hey, maybe I will just pickuip a few more used SW-2P's and stack those 4 tall in a corner. Going from 2 drvers to 4 will give me 6 more dB in output capability.

Should be no problem. They don't have identical twin manufacturing to ultra close tolerances like the 3,3s and VT-3s did. Just make sure you got a mirror imaged, separate L/R matching pair though so that the sub drivers aren't both facing in the same direction. :p
hehe ...I can confirm the woofers are opposite facing. Thanks guys for alleviating my concerns. Just through me for a loop because my super zeros and outdoor ones had the same build dates and very close serial numbers.

It's been a long time since I shopped for audio gear. Lot of good stuff out there but I still like the sound of NHTs. Just a middle of the road, value guy. Picked up an Integra DTR 7.8 and a Rel T1 sub with the speakers. Will be bi-amping the 4s and integrating in the Rel (the Rel has an unusual method of hookup). Looking forward to hooking everything up this weekend. Take care, back to lurking mode for me.

I am tempted to buy 4 U2's, and stack them in a corner crossed to the mains at 50 Hz. Still not sure if sealed subwoofers will provide a decent amount of "impact" like ported subwoofers gives you.

Hey, maybe I will just pickuip a few more used SW-2P's and stack those 4 tall in a corner. Going from 2 drvers to 4 will give me 6 more dB in output capability.

Yeah, but the thing is, as cheap as the Evo subs are now, you really wouldn't be saving much, if any money buying used SW-2Ps. :p

At these prices, every U2 owner ought to pick up a couple more W2s and an A1 to have two different co-located stacks of two.

Plus, two of them stacked would be exactly 28" high, which just happens to be almost perfect speaker stand height for Threes to make them about the same height as Fours, but with much better subs. You could cross them over at 125 Hz like the Fours, and wouldn't have to worry about localization either. :D Of course, the Fours would still look much better than such an arrangement though.

So Russ if the U1 should be 4' feet from anything I guess I'm outta luck putting two in my house since they would have to be close to the corners.

tonygeno: ok I see what you mean, but I already knew the subs were working after putting my hands near the woofers. I guess I'm having some placement and room issues. With the furnitures I have, I have to place the fours less than 5 feet apart. the 10inchers are facing toward each other b/c I'm afraid of my cat tearing the grilles. Also my room is full of cabinets, desk, couches and the floor is carpeted.

J_Palmer_Cass: My surrounds will be classic threes and center three C.

I also have doubts in U1/U2 output at 20hz, even w/ the 20hz mod. I look at the weight of svs pb12+ subs and it's >100lbs. Meanwhile, the U1 weigh around 70lbs and the U2 subs weigh less than 40lbs each. I'm sure the evo subs are more musical though.

So Russ if the U1 should be 4' feet from anything I guess I'm outta luck putting two in my house since they would have to be close to the corners.

Then you should definitely get W2s instead of W1s, or better yet, get 2 pairs of W2s and have two stacks if two W2s, which would be the same as dual W1s. W1s can go up against a single wall on either of their two sides with no drivers on it, but they can't go in a corner too well.

Keep in mind too, the X1 has an excellent boundary control adjustment feature that helps with corner placement too. :cool:

I also have doubts in U1/U2 output at 20hz, even w/ the 20hz mod. I look at the weight of svs pb12+ subs and it's >100lbs. Meanwhile, the U1 weigh around 70lbs and the U2 subs weigh less than 40lbs each. I'm sure the evo subs are more musical though.

Keep in mind the mod is -3 Db at 20 Hz, and is supposed to be for dual W1s, two pairs of W2s, or one W1 and two W2s in the same room/system. No, even dual W1s with a 20 Hz modded X1 still can't come close to matching the below 20 Hz extension of a PB12 Plus though.

However, dual W1s will top a single P12 Plus in pretty much every other parameter overall, and if you've followed this thread any at all, you would see that this statement is not exactly just hollow words coming from a blind advocate of NHT subs over SVS'. ;)

Actually, the W2s are more versatile and flexible in their placement options, and the W1 should be at least 4' away from any boundary to it's drivers. :p

Hey Mark, where does the 4 feet number come from? The manual says 4 inches.

Keep in mind the mod is -3 Db at 20 Hz, and is supposed to be for dual W1s, two pairs of W2s, or one W1 and two W2s in the same room/system. No, even dual W1s with a 20 Hz modded X1 still can't come close to matching the below 20 Hz extension of a PB12 Plus though.

However, dual W1s will top a single P12 Plus in pretty much every other parameter overall, and if you've followed this thread any at all, you would see that this statement is not exactly just hollow words coming from a blind advocate of NHT subs over SVS'. ;)

So where does this put 1 PB-13 Mark, since a PB-13 can be corner loaded if needed.
Allen

Hey Mark, where does the 4 feet number come from? The manual says 4 inches.

You're right, my bad. :o

Still though, I wouldn't place it that close to a wall nonetheless, even when taking into consideration the X1's boundary eq. I'd still want at least 3' minimum of separation between any solid, full boundary like a wall and the driver. W2s are still much better for corner placement IMO.

So where does this put 1 PB-13 Mark, since a PB-13 can be corner loaded if needed.
Allen

One of those would top dual W1s Allen. Why, you thinkin' 'bout one? ;)

BTW, Ed at SVS told me that dual PB12 Pluses would trump a single PB13U, and have you seen the prices SVS is offering right now on the premium finish PB12 Pluses and PB12 Plus/2s? They're almost as good a deal as these Evo sub closeout prices. :eek:

J_Palmer_Cass: My surrounds will be classic threes and center three C.




Will be? If you are just using the stereo pair, with no center or surrounds, there will be a lack of bass for DVD's until you get all of those speakers. I assume that your receiver is DD and DTS capable.

DRC is activated when you downmix DD material in most receivers when you do not use a complete 5.0 or 5.1 setup. Make sure that you have a center and surround speakers before you even think about a subwoofer.

If you have an old speaker hanging around, connect it to the center. Set the surrounds to small even if no speakers are connected. Then test out a DD action movie.

As an alternative you can also choose a DTS track. DRC is not use for DTS, so a DTS DVD can be used to test out the bass.

One of those would top dual W1s Allen. Why, you thinkin' 'bout one? ;)

BTW, Ed at SVS told me that dual PB12 Pluses would trump a single PB13U, and have you seen the prices SVS is offering right now on the premium finish PB12 Pluses and PB12 Plus/2s? They're almost as good a deal as these Evo sub closeout prices. :eek:



Those SVS PB12 Plus and Plus/2 subwoofers are tempting also!

You're right, my bad. :o

Still though, I wouldn't place it that close to a wall nonetheless, even when taking into consideration the X1's boundary eq. I'd still want at least 3' minimum of separation between any solid, full boundary like a wall and the driver. W2s are still much better for corner placement IMO.

yeah, 4 inches seems a bit close for me also. I ordered the U1 because I won't have room for another sub woofer on the left side..didn't think about stacking them. Guess I'll mess with it a bit and see where best to put it when it comes in Tuesday.

Now I'm even more perplexed of what to buy, quantity and also where to put them. I hate my living room at times.

Been lurking for some time, so I'll throw out a few things...

Just started a HT build with a friend using (5) M5's and an SVS PB12 Plus - He's been wavering for close to a year to do the build, but with these prices, he pulled the trigger. 100% HT so we choose the SVS deal over the U1/U2's - it has great extension, but I would still recommend Evo subs for music.

I'm also experimenting some with my T5's along with a pair of W2's (effectively 4 W2's) located in different areas of a room for HT and like this setup for all but the very low LFE tracks (Black Hawk Down scenes, etc)...

miky702 - in addition to some of the great feedback form the folks on this thread, you may also want to put in some music you consider bass friendly, play it at a moderate level, then sit/stand in various places around the room, listening for what I would call bass "hot spots" --- If you can identify areas that sound heavier (or lack little to no bass), then you've got nulls / peaks and either room treatments &/or speaker placement adj are in order... even if this is not the case you may want to add an external amp... I found the Fours bass really starts to go once you've added 150-200 dedicated watts per channel.... with the deals on the A1, I would 2nd Mark's recommendation on the X2/A1's...

The bass is satisfying once I turn my denon2801 close to 00. However, the music gets too loud for me at times. For movies, the bass again is good at 00, but the high can become unbearable to my ears. I basic just want to find a way to boost up the bass.

Knowing I can get the u2 for 500, I don't know if I want to buy the A1,x1 for the classic fours. if they cost about the same.

If anybody's still thinking about the Special Darks, ListenUp has Twos, Fours, Twelves and 3Cs in their e Bay (http://stores.e_DELETE_Bay.com/ListenUp-Audio-Video) store, with shipping included.

http://i24.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/c3/1c/7309_3.JPG

You're right, my bad. :o

Still though, I wouldn't place it that close to a wall nonetheless, even when taking into consideration the X1's boundary eq. I'd still want at least 3' minimum of separation between any solid, full boundary like a wall and the driver. W2s are still much better for corner placement IMO. This is correct. A couple previous phone calls with Jack had layed all this out - W2s require more precise corner placement, while W1s can be placed more freely. Yes you want them away from any solid objects if posible, but the X1 boundary control does a good job of correction if you must.

Not sure why that would be ^ but I guess Jack would know.

HiDefLifestyle1, how much are u selling the t6 for?

also, can m5 play nearly as loud as m6?

Plus, the M5 is also a much better matching CC speaker than the VS-2.4 too. :cool:

You should hear "Child In Time" cranked on T5s. :D
I'd really like to upgrade but I've been tempted too many times this year already. I have bought a preamp, a CD player and a turntable plus cartridge since the beginning of the year. Anyway I really like my system right now: 2 VT2.4s biamped with NAD amps (C370 and C270), 5 VS2.4s and a Subtwo. I'm using a Harmon Kardon AVR 8000 for a HT processor and 5 surround amp channels. I'm sure the T5s would be a nice upgrade but I'm really hoping NHT has some new products in the pipeline so I can upgrade my speakers in about two or three years.

I am using two SB3s and an SC-2 in a small\medium room. What would be the ideal back two speakers? Absolute zeros or Classic Two? I'm leaning towards the zeros because I am wall mounting them and I think the Twos wouldn't be asthecially pleasing on the wall, but would I have an overall better sound with them?

I am using two SB3s and an SC-2 in a small\medium room. What would be the ideal back two speakers? Absolute zeros or Classic Two? I'm leaning towards the zeros because I am wall mounting them and I think the Twos wouldn't be asthecially pleasing on the wall, but would I have an overall better sound with them?


I don't think the surrounds matter as much. So go with whatever you like and want to spend.

I just grabbed the deal at AA and scored 2 SD classic 3's a classic 3 center and 2 classic 2's for surround. Been playing with them for a few days now and they sound great.

I am using two SB3s and an SC-2 in a small\medium room. What would be the ideal back two speakers? Absolute zeros or Classic Two? I'm leaning towards the zeros because I am wall mounting them and I think the Twos wouldn't be asthecially pleasing on the wall, but would I have an overall better sound with them?There's a post somewhere in this thread where Jack Hidley suggests that the wider dispersion of the smaller woofer on the Zero makes it a better surround speaker than the Two. For HT, I assume. So if you'd rather use the Zeros, there's your support.

If you click on search this thread, toward the upper right, Advanced Search, and search on posts by Jack Hidley with the word dispersion in them you can find it if you want.

P.S. - link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10268052&highlight=dispersion#post10268052), some other discussion there probably tooI agree that the AZs will make better surround speakers than the Twos. The smaller woofer has better dispersion up to and at the crossover frequency. This will make the speaker have flatter frequency response at all angles.btw a wildcard, you can pick up L5s at half price now, for not that much more than Zeros would cost. Designed for wall mounting, come with a bracket which lets you adjust them, etc. link with a comment quoted (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11846382#post11846382)

is there any used super 3 special dark speakers left in the world?

Using as LR, how will the 3c perform when placed vertically/horizonatally compared to the 3?

Can one x1 control 4 w2s or 2 w1s?

milky702 -

Jack has posted before that the 3C was designed to be either on top of or just below a large TV screen & in other configurations, they will sound thin. The Three would be the better option in pretty much very way except for overall output.

I know the special dark pricing is very tempting to try, but you would be better off with Three's (or 3 M5's as a L C R)...

And yes the X1 will control 4 W2s or 2 W1s. Several of us are using an X1 into 2 A1's powering the Evo's. You have 2 W2's (wired parallel) or 1 W1 per channel. This gives you the 6ohm load on each A1 amp.

Hope this helps...

Using as LR, how will the 3c perform when placed vertically/horizonatally compared to the 3?

I would only recommend that if you watch movies only with absolutely no music whatsoever, and also have to place them all horizontally in an entertainment cabinet, and even then I wouldn't suggest this set up. After all, you could just get M5s instead for about the same price.

Can one x1 control 4 w2s or 2 w1s?

Yes.

milky702 -

Jack has posted before that the 3C was designed to be either on top of or just below a large TV screen & in other configurations, they will sound thin. The Three would be the better option in pretty much very way except for overall output.

I know the special dark pricing is very tempting to try, but you would be better off with Three's (or 3 M5's as a L C R)...

And yes the X1 will control 4 W2s or 2 W1s. Several of us are using an X1 into 2 A1's powering the Evo's. You have 2 W2's (wired parallel) or 1 W1 per channel. This gives you the 6ohm load on each A1 amp.

Hope this helps...


Damned! You snuck in there and posted basically the same thing I did before I could. :o:p

is there any used super 3 special dark speakers left in the world?

I don't know, but I'm seriously thinking about picking up a pair of Twos to give them a try.

I believe I might like them better than the Threes.

a wildcard, you can pick up L5s at half price now, for not that much more than Zeros would cost. Designed for wall mounting, come with a bracket which lets you adjust them, etc. link with a comment quoted (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11846382#post11846382)

I wouldn't recommend that. Stick with L5s paired with M5s/M6s, and keep Classics with Classics.

I thought the question was what to use as surrounds with SB3s and an SC2?

I thought the question was what to use as surrounds with SB3s and an SC2?

You really don't wanna use L5s with Super Audios either. The phase will still be inverted on them. That is, unless you have a Controller to automatically tie them all together correctly. ;)

also, can m5 play nearly as loud as m6?

While the M5 will play louder than Threes/Fours, it will not play as loud as M6s.

I'd really like to upgrade but I've been tempted too many times this year already. I have bought a preamp, a CD player and a turntable plus cartridge since the beginning of the year. Anyway I really like my system right now: 2 VT2.4s biamped with NAD amps (C370 and C270), 5 VS2.4s and a Subtwo. I'm using a Harmon Kardon AVR 8000 for a HT processor and 5 surround amp channels. I'm sure the T5s would be a nice upgrade but I'm really hoping NHT has some new products in the pipeline so I can upgrade my speakers in about two or three years.

The HK AVR8000 is one awesome piece. ;)

Has anyone compared Twos to SB-3s, and if so, thoughts?

Ok i see. What about using the center as surrounds? Or is it better off just buy the 2s instead?

You really don't wanna use ....Maybe it's easier just to say what you do recommend? ;)

Maybe it's easier just to say what you do recommend? ;)

Already did that:

Stick with L5s paired with M5s/M6s, and keep Classics with Classics.

Guess I was wrong to assume that would automatically be interpreted to also apply to SAs as well. :p

But given his options, you already answered it. ;)

I would suggest he grab those SB1s on ebay right now though.

The company line is 'any NHT speaker is a match for any other NHT speaker'. Not that I would recommend it or anything. :)

well i pulled the trigger on another u1. at these prices it would be ridiculous not to i couldn't decide whether to buy the u1 or three m6s but since i have only had the classic 3s, 3c and u1 for only 5 months i figured i might as well get my u1 a brother. can't wait to see what it will add to the party. although i wish the 3s played a little louder i have been happy with them but i can't help but think how those m6s would sound in my abode. they may still find their way onto my credit card before this fire sale is over. by the way in my owners manual for the u1 it said to wire it out of phase. is this correct?

Welcome to the Stereo U1 club...get the 20hz mod for your X1 if not already done. Very satisfying system, esp for the $. You want more volume from 3s...just add power. :)

i already have the 20hz mod. am going to increase power supply when emotiva comes out with their 5ch 200wpc amp. then the cs should jump and shout. or punt and get the m6s.

The title says it all. I just got my speakers from AudioAdvisor.

Pair of Classic THREEs
Pair of Classic TWOs as rear
Pair of JM Lab Focal Cobalt S SR-800s as side.
One THREE C

Just for compare, I tested all 3 pair speakers as Front Main speakers. the song I used to test was Eagles Hotel California (Live).

of course the Three was the best. Then I goes to the TWO. I was expected less bass and mid. but even just talk about the clarity, the TWO is un-matched to THREE. From the beginning the sound of Guitar, the TWOs was not as clear and real as the THREEs. then to the sound of drum, the TWO was not as tight as THREE.

The difference is like night and day. My friend even think the TWOs are defective.

Now goes to the SR-800s, obvious it won't have the same volumn level, bass and mid as the THREES. but the sound is still a lot better than the TWOs. The Guitar was clear and lots of layers. and drum is tight even with the weak bass.

Is anyone experience the same thing of the TWOs? or I should contact AudioAdvisor and claim the TWOs are defective and ask for a exchange?

Thanks.

If anybody's still thinking about the Special Darks, ListenUp has Twos, Fours, Twelves and 3Cs in their e Bay (http://stores.e_DELETE_Bay.com/ListenUp-Audio-Video) store, with shipping included.Some of those are gone, but they've added M5s and M00s.

If you have read the floorstander speaker faceoff by craigsub they basically skewered the Twos w/ sub.I wouldn't put any more weight on those opinions than on those of lots of others who posted earlier in this thread how they thought they were. (Many positive, some not so.) And since they listen to them for 1/2 hour, to me it means less than someone who lives with the speakers for a while, tries to get the setup right, etc. Though the direct comparison to other speakers is potentially a big plus.

But speaker shootouts are full of potential problems. Think about how long you spent getting the placement, gear, etc. right for a set of speakers. Then think about what would happen if you changed speakers every 5-30 minutes.

Shootouts are fun, but ultimately can be misleading.

And no matter how hard they try, things can go wrong that make the playing field uneven. Placement, seating, gear, etc.

Somehow many shootouts I've read also have a way of - oh, surprise! The gear I bought / my favorite brands / etc. won!!! Woo hooo! I bought the best [fill in the blank] after all!!!

Finally, I'm not sure why this whole post got deleted, but a quote from the last bookshelf thread ... completely different from later posts. The NHT Classic 2 pair was characterized as follows ...

1. Depth and Width of soundstage was better than any of the other speakers.
2. Microdynamics were outstanding, and again, superior to the other contestants.
3. Macrodynamics were lacking. We were using the Emotiva LPA-1 for all the speakers here, which is substantial power. The NHT's just don't like "going loud".
4. Within their limits, vocals, brass, percussive instruments, and guitar were all presented with excellent results.
5. Efficiency was -6 dBNo idea what's going on, but at a minimum it shows how hard it is to do these shootouts in a way that really gets to what the speaker is about. Yes, they are fun to read about, and very useful no doubt to the people doing them - but Craig did not walk down Mt. Sinai with the results engraved on stone tablets, as some seem to believe.

The 2s are "clearly" not in the same league as the 3.

Here what I wrote about 2 years ago.

Well, they have more midrange detail than any of the Mirage's I've heard. Remember, there's a difference between midrange "presence" and midrange "detail". Real detail doesn't stand out in any way and can be rather boring until you realize that the soundstage and instrumentation is more fleshed out. That's why most speakers fake detail. While Twos aren't as detailed as Threes and some other speakers, at least they don't fake it with added cone resonance or tipped up FR. And you can listen to them all day.

If you have read the floorstander speaker faceoff by craigsub they basically skewered the Twos w/ sub.

Mebbe, but consider that with a 3-way tower, you can choose a real midrange. It's one of the reasons the Fours are more sorted than the Threes. And, of course, the Threes "skewer" the Twos. So, if they'd compared Fours to the other speakers, that would have been fair. Or maybe threes with a U1.