Not seeing it in the current section, got a link? I've been told that the drivers required to make the M5/M6/L5 are unavailable, though I find it hard to believe that a compatible updated version couldn't be ordered.

The main L/R will be much better for music anyway vertically.

Well I modified the shelf height to accept it vertically today, so just need the boxes to arrive. Tomorrow or Tuesday!

Ryan

I have a question for the good people reading this thread. The new pre/pros and receivers are beginning to use the Audyssey software to provide a basic form of room acoustic adjustment. Has anyone used the Audyssey software in conjunction with a T5/T6 or X2 setup? What would be the best approach to using the settings offered by the X1/X2 and the Audyssey software.
Thanks in Advance.

I'm thinking of the Controller/power5 because it's tempting. I haven't heard of either one of those yet. I wonder how do that combo compare to similar price items. The following comes to mind:

Rotel RSP-1098 & RMB-1095
Parasound C2 & ...
Integra DTC-9.8 & ...

How's HT & 2-channel compare to those above? All those can be bought with similiar used price vs NHT's.

Right now, I'm using Rotel RSP-1068/1075 for HT and Nad M3 for stereo.
Speakers are classic 4 for front and rears, and Classic 3c. This system with the controller/power5 is 70/30 music/HT. I already have a 100% HT using Klipsch ultra2. Thanks.

And if it weren't for your posts, that number would be about 2000. :p



Darn it, Jack. You beat me to it. I was just about to submit that exact post! ;)

Ouow - do you realize how lucky we are to have this kind of input? I certainly do. I, too, had forgotten about impedance vs. resistance. Doh!

Peter
Yes I do. Jack's posts raise the bar even more on what is already the most informative audio thread I have come across. As a long time NHT fan I would expect nothing less of fellow NHT'ers.

Thanks Jack, that clears up a lot for me.

One last question for anyone. Why would Onkyo support speakers with 4 ohms of impedance in their 805 AVR but not want the bi-amp feature to be used with speakers with less than 8 ohms of impedance?

I just checked, and counting this one, I now have 1607 posts in this thread. :o

So even if you take all my posts away, this would still be the second biggest thread here in the speaker forum in terms of number of posts. ;):p

BTW - what are your thoughts on the T5s now since you've had a little more time with them, and, have you got a pair of L5s yet?
Thanks for reminding me. I JUST bought the L5s after reading your post. The T5s are great but I really haven't finished setting them up yet.

Jack spelled-out to me how to paint the L5s.

Peter

Take a look at NHT absolute zero, matches nicely with what you have.

Problem is I'd like to try and get them in the Brown finish to match the C4s and C3C. I can't find any C2s in Brown, never mind the AZs (Did they ever come in the brown finish?)

Has anybody come across any lately?

Thanks again!

I don't have any Classics in dark *except* I have a few ThreeCs if anyone needs.

I bought an older NHT X-1 on E-bay. After I completed the factory 20 Hz modification, I did some sweeps to measure the frequency response of the 20 Hz mod.

There are 5 FR curves. Boundry EQ is the difference in curves. I used the -6 dB, -3 dB, 0 dB, + 3 dB, and + 6db Boundry EQ.

Note that my Boundry EQ curves do not always matchup with the Factory 20 Hz modification.


The first chart is the 20 Hz modification with the LFE input being used. The EQ center frequency is around 32 Hz (not stock).


The second chart is for the stock 27 Hz factory settings. The EQ center is around 40 Hz (stock). I used an 80 Hz crossover setting for this chart.


The third chart (20Hz_Modification_JPC) is the modification that I made to my own X-1. The boundry EQ is centered at 27 Hz. The 20 Hz HP filter starts to roll off at around 23 Hz, and sounds much better than 27 Hz stock unit. I used an 80 Hz crossover for this chart.


The fourth chart is the 20 Hz factory modification with an EQ center frequency near 27 Hz. I used an 80 Hz crossover for this chart.

I'm thinking of the Controller/power5 because it's tempting. I haven't heard of either one of those yet. I wonder how do that combo compare to similar price items. The following comes to mind:

Rotel RSP-1098 & RMB-1095
Parasound C2 & ...
Integra DTC-9.8 & ...

How's HT & 2-channel compare to those above? All those can be bought with similiar used price vs NHT's.

Right now, I'm using Rotel RSP-1068/1075 for HT and Nad M3 for stereo.
Speakers are classic 4 for front and rears, and Classic 3c. This system with the controller/power5 is 70/30 music/HT. I already have a 100% HT using Klipsch ultra2. Thanks.

Can't comment on how well the Controller+P5 combo sounds against the above but I can say this combo sounds just as good as the Audio Refinement Pre-5 + Rotel RB-1080 combo that they replaced. I thought the RB-1080 was a little softer up top versus the P5. Im still in search of a good class A amp for my bi-amp project. Btw im running C4s up front.

Regards,
Ricky

Not seeing it in the current sectionMaybe I'm confused and I was certainly unclear ... IIRC the "list all by type" pages didn't have the Evos on it for a while, that was what I was referring to.

Does it now?

Well, that's odd, maybe I was getting a cached page. Or just hallucinating. No, it doesn't have it. Anyway, these were the pages I was referring to:

Vintage aka discontinued - has the Xds and the SuperZero XU now.
http://nhthifi.com/current/service-vintage.html

Current list by type
http://nhthifi.com/current/s-all.html

You guys want to see if we can get a moderator to rename this thread to "NHT Owners Thread"?

I am confident we will have something new to talk about in the coming year or two.

You guys want to see if we can get a moderator to rename this thread to "NHT Owners Thread"?

I am confident we will have something new to talk about in the coming year or two.

Sounds good to me. No reason to have to start a new thread and lose our "most posts" title!

I liked the idea someone recently had about "New NHT Classic line to replace everything" since that is exactly what has happened when the Evos and Xds got dropped. :p

You guys want to see if we can get a moderator to rename this thread to "NHT Owners Thread"?

I am confident we will have something new to talk about in the coming year or two.

I don't know, but I would imagine that would prolly be up to the poster who originally started this thread, but quit participating in it long ago. What ever happened to him? :confused:

One last question for anyone. Why would Onkyo support speakers with 4 ohms of impedance in their 805 AVR but not want the bi-amp feature to be used with speakers with less than 8 ohms of impedance?

Don't know, but have you seen HTM's measurement specs of their bench test on it in the current issue (that is not yet on line)?

I thumbed through it in the grocery store last night, and if memory serves, it was something like 168 watts X 5 channels driven into 8 ohms at 0.1 % distortion, and like 190 some watts X 2! :eek:

That is some SERIOUS power for an AVR, especially at that price point. :cool:

To put it into perspective, it absolutely destroyed the NAD T753's marks in the same test. ;)

Well I modified the shelf height to accept it vertically today, so just need the boxes to arrive. Tomorrow or Tuesday!

Ryan

Cool, let us know when you get 'em set up.

I have a question for the good people reading this thread. The new pre/pros and receivers are beginning to use the Audyssey software to provide a basic form of room acoustic adjustment. Has anyone used the Audyssey software in conjunction with a T5/T6 or X2 setup? What would be the best approach to using the settings offered by the X1/X2 and the Audyssey software.
Thanks in Advance.

Never tried Audyssey myself yet, but before running it, I would start with initial setting recommendations spelled out in the Evo manual (including the boundary eq scenario that is most similar to yours), and then fine tune it by ear from there to your room. This will work best with a second person to tweak the controls while you are sitting in the main listening position (my old lady is now an expert at dialing in X1/X2 settings :D ).

Once you have that squared away, then run the Audyssey.

I have used HK's before (can't remember what they call it though, Easy Set, Easy Eq, or something like that), and FWIW, IMO the Evos, either the subs or the monitors, do not benefit from it quite as much as most other speakers simply because they already have some very handy room tuning features built into them. ;)

I don't know, but I would imagine that would prolly be up to the poster who originally started this thread, but quit participating in it long ago. What ever happened to him? :confused:

Well, he is still active, just not here.

If the general consensus is to change the title, I will be happy to ask him.

^^^ Wouldn't hurt anything. The worst he could do is to say no. :o

any sugguestions for a home theater sub? currently using a velodyne hgs-12 with my nht's . i want something with a bit more impact that my sealed sub lacks

Don't know, but have you seen HTM's measurement specs of their bench test on it in the current issue (that is not yet on line)?

I thumbed through it in the grocery store last night, and if memory serves, it was something like 168 watts X 5 channels driven into 8 ohms at 0.1 % distortion, and like 190 some watts X 2! :eek:

That is some SERIOUS power for an AVR, especially at that price point. :cool:

To put it into perspective, it absolutely destroyed the NAD T753's marks in the same test. ;)
No but thanks for the heads up, I'll try and pick up a copy this week. I believe those bench test numbers are considerably higher that Onkyo's advertised specs.

Well, he is still active, just not here.

If the general consensus is to change the title, I will be happy to ask him. I would prefer someone create an entirely new thread, something like 'Official NHT Audio thread'; then link to this one in the first post. That way new people don't have to sift through 7000+ posts, and new products could be added easily. :cool:

We are 2.5 years into this thread. I kind of like it.
You don't have to sift thru posts if a proper search is done.
I think people reask questions anyway.
"Reask"- is that a word?

Okay, after going back to somewhere at the beginning of this thread and look at other threads on the NHT controller/amp5, I've finally put an order for that combo. I mean, with 30 days try out, I don't have anything to loose. I hope this can replace the Rotel rsp-1068/Nad M3/Rotel rmb-1075 combo that I'm using right now. I just hate turning a lot of components on just to watch a movie. The controller/amp5 will simplify that. If the stereo side of that combo is just good enough on the Classic 4 vs the Nad M3, it's a keeper. Cross finger!

Never tried Audyssey myself yet, but before running it, I would start with initial setting recommendations spelled out in the Evo manual (including the boundary eq scenario that is most similar to yours), and then fine tune it by ear from there to your room. This will work best with a second person to tweak the controls while you are sitting in the main listening position (my old lady is now an expert at dialing in X1/X2 settings :D ).

Once you have that squared away, then run the Audyssey.

I have used HK's before (can't remember what they call it though, Easy Set, Easy Eq, or something like that), and FWIW, IMO the Evos, either the subs or the monitors, do not benefit from it quite as much as most other speakers simply because they already have some very handy room tuning features built into them. ;)



Mark, take a look at the X-1 FR charts that I posted above. That boundry EQ center frequency varies quite a bit depending on whether you have a stock X-1 or a modified 20 Hz unit.

Okay, after going back to somewhere at the beginning of this thread and look at other threads on the NHT controller/amp5, I've finally put an order for that combo. I mean, with 30 days try out, I don't have anything to loose. I hope this can replace the Rotel rsp-1068/Nad M3/Rotel rmb-1075 combo that I'm using right now. I just hate turning a lot of components on just to watch a movie. The controller/amp5 will simplify that. If the stereo side of that combo is just good enough on the Classic 4 vs the Nad M3, it's a keeper. Cross finger!

good luck man!!!!! i will buy your rotel gear!!!! :eek:

Well, the brown Santa brought me two prizes yesterday. Great, fast service from audiovideologic!

The M5s certainly do seem like a robust box. They fit well into my modified HEC bookshelves. I wish the grills fit a bit more flush, but that is about my only visual complaint. I set the boundary switch to 1 right off the bat, and made sure the high freq tweeter was inboard on both sides.

I didn't really have too much time to work them out last night though. My wife and I watched an episode of Dexter in HD so I set my receiver to phantom mode to bypass my old center. There wasn't a lot going on audio wise in the show, but the old scratchy jazz tune that was playing about midway through the show was certainly much more exposed than it would have been in my old setup. I kept thinking "there's no replacement for displacement" though as the sound is so much fuller and enveloping than from the little old Polks.

After the show I popped in a little bit of Bela Fleck just for kicks. More listening tonight for sure. I know that with my room I'm probably not going to get near the wonderful Maggie MG3A sound and imaging that Dave Clark and Tom Nousaine spoiled me with a few years back (and has haunted me ever since) but I think I'm going to like these NHTs and they fit well with my room.

r

By the way I bought a used X-1 crossover off of E-bay to play around with. There seems to be a problem with the adjustable LP filter on one channel. The printed circuit board was updated in early 2007 to correct this PC board error.

Do you by chance know the exact, or at least the approximate date of the update?

I wish the grills fit a bit more flush, but that is about my only visual complaint.

Make sure the leading edge of the front baffle of the speaker itself is flush with the leading edge of the shelf it's sitting on. IOW - the grille is actually hanging over the edge of the shelf.

Make sure the leading edge of the front baffle of the speaker itself is flush with the leading edge of the shelf it's sitting on. IOW - the grille is actually hanging over the edge of the shelf.

Yeah, that how it sits. The grill is actually out front of the book case.

Do you by chance know the exact, or at least the approximate date of the update?


Yes, the date is written on the PC board.

If you look through the top slots from the rear, the latest PC board has X1/X2 PCB REV 2 marked on it in the upper left corner of the main back PC board. There is also an NHT date 1/08/07 marked on the board in the same place. My new X-1's have the latest board, and that is how I know the dates and numbers.

The chart below shows the LP filter defect.

The upper FR chart show the R & L 90 Hz LP filter. The R channel is defective (slower rolloff).

The lower FR chart shows the R & L 50 Hz filter. The R channel is defective (slower rolloff).

Most of the defective PC boards were reworked at one time of another at NHT or at the factory. I tested my "new" used unit of unknown vintage, so I just repaired it after I figured out what was wrong. I guess that's what happens when you buy old stuff off of E-bay.

The LFE input does not go through the circuit, so there is no problem there. The 140 Hz LP setting has no problem. The more you move down in frequency from 140 Hz, the bigger the problem.


I am still looking at what frequency I am going to use for the final mod of the Boundry EQ. Right now I am using the 20 Hz modification (27 Hz center frequency). Basically, all it does is move the volume of the 30 Hz signal area up and down during sine wave testing of my subwoofer. In other words, it is a limited bandwidth volume control centered on the 30 Hz area.

The original stock value for the Border EQ controls an area centered around the 40 Hz area. One of my mods made the EQ center frequency around the 33 Hz area. Still doing audio listening tests to determine which Border EQ center frequency is most useful. After I am done experimenting with the old unit, I will modify my two new units.


.

FWIW One Call is now giving free shipping on the SuperZeroXU at $69 each. They had been adding shipping to that.

The SuperOneXU is still $199 a pair shipped at ListenUp, though. link (http://www.listenup.com/lu/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=l&Product_Code=SuperOneXU&Category_Code=)

FWIW One Call is now giving free shipping on the SuperZeroXU at $69 each. They had been adding shipping to that.

The SuperOneXU is still $199 a pair shipped at ListenUp, though. link (http://www.listenup.com/lu/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=l&Product_Code=SuperOneXU&Category_Code=)

Thanks for the heads up over at One Call! I was going to p/u a pair of the Xus but noticed the open box special on the C3s! Got a pair for $395 shipped!!!! :eek::D Lets hope the cosmetics are up to par...according to One Call the speakers are as new in condition and functionality w/warranty in place. Ok, now I just need to find a second amp for my C4s and X2...

Regards,
Ricky

FWIW One Call is now giving free shipping on the SuperZeroXU at $69 each. They had been adding shipping to that.

The SuperOneXU is still $199 a pair shipped at ListenUp, though. link (http://www.listenup.com/lu/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=l&Product_Code=SuperOneXU&Category_Code=)

Funny, I picked up SuperZero Xus 3 years ago from the same place for just under that price. Not much has changed, apparently.

At that price, they'd seem to be amuch better deal than the Verve...

Thanks for the heads up over at One Call! I was going to p/u a pair of the Xus but noticed the open box special on the C3s! Got a pair for $395 shipped!!!! :eek::D Lets hope the cosmetics are up to par...according to One Call the speakers are as new in condition and functionality w/warranty in place. Ok, now I just need to find a second amp for my C4s and X2...

Regards,
Ricky
:eek:
Must resist...

rchcah,

Thanks for the note on the Classic 3 Open Box @ 1call. Ordered a pair after seeing your post.

I am upgrading from an older NHT line, the SB2. Still need to look for a decent deal on the Center. Appear that folks here recommend the 3C to match the Classic 3, but I think the 3C is over priced and wonder if the 2C will do. Room is about 25ftx17ft with high Ceiling, speakers are facing the 17ft wall.

Any thoughts?

rchcah,

Thanks for the note on the Classic 3 Open Box @ 1call. Ordered a pair after seeing your post.

I am upgrading from an older NHT line, the SB2. Still need to look for a decent deal on the Center. Appear that folks here recommend the 3C to match the Classic 3, but I think the 3C is over priced and wonder if the 2C will do. Room is about 25ftx17ft with high Ceiling, speakers are facing the 17ft wall.

Any thoughts?

No probs...thats what these forums are for :) Check ebay for 3Cs...saw a couple a little while back for under $350...though they may be in the dark finish. And if you dont mind the dark finish checkout audioadvisor.com, again, last time I checked they had the 2C for under $300. Also check Audiogon.com for anything used. Are you running C3s all the way around? If you are I really think the 3C is a better p/u...otherwise the 2C is probably the next best p/u. Im sure some of our NHT gurus will chime in here...

Regards,
Ricky

To good to be true...just got a call from *******, seems that they only had one speaker for sale at that price, they made a mistake on their website...figures...of course I canceled my order.

Regards,
Ricky

Ok, now that my Evo M5s L&Rs are happily home I'm staring at my center channel situation. Yes I know that another M5 horizontally is the best match but the darn thing is just too tall for where I really want to locate it (under the TV, maybe 1-2 feet below ear level). (See post #6967)

Would an Absolute Center or Classic 2C be totally out of place here?

The only place I can really fit an M5 center in my setup is on the shelf over my 50" plasma and that is still going to be a good deal higher than my LRs and our seating position. Will the directional VFIG of the M5 fix this or am I still going to get some "voices from the sky" imaging.

Anybody dealt with a similar situation? Am I making too much of this?

r

I'm still awaiting the arrival of my recently-ordered NHT A-1 amps (2) and the X-2 Crossover. With the discontinuation of NHT's line of higher-end electronics, I have seen the NHT Power 2 amp advertised for almost 1/2 price (slightly less than the cost of the two A-1's). Would this Power 2 be a better choice for bi-amping the Classic 4's? I still might have time to change the order.

Ok, now that my Evo M5s L&Rs are happily home I'm staring at my center channel situation. Yes I know that another M5 horizontally is the best match but the darn thing is just too tall for where I really want to locate it (under the TV, maybe 1-2 feet below ear level). (See post #6967)

Would an Absolute Center or Classic 2C be totally out of place here?

The only place I can really fit an M5 center in my setup is on the shelf over my 50" plasma and that is still going to be a good deal higher than my LRs and our seating position. Will the directional VFIG of the M5 fix this or am I still going to get some "voices from the sky" imaging.

Anybody dealt with a similar situation? Am I making too much of this?

r

Not the M5s, but close enough! I recently bought five L-5s for my HT. Originally I had the center wall mounted above my screen, which placed it well above the L/R speakers. I was conscious of the "voices from the sky", and it bugged me. So I raised my screen and mounted the center below, which placed it much closer to the L/R and to ear level. IMO that's the way to go, good luck!

rmplum, you might consider whether there's some way to mount an L5 below the screen using the included mount, or otherwise. It's not any narrower, but the mounting system may give you more options than an M5.

http://nhthifi.com/current/products/vintage/l5.html

rmplum, I'd somehow make the M5 work, or go with an L5 as the other poster has suggested. From what I've read, the Classics have a much different sound than the Evos. I should talk though, with Classics up front and Super Audios all around. Hope it all works out.

everyone that has heard the L5's I have set up as LCR has been blown away

Ditto! Having five of the L5s gives me totally seamless pans, and the wall mount has freed up all kinds of room in my HT. A great deal at the blowout price, fer sure.

rmplum, I'd somehow make the M5 work, or go with an L5 as the other poster has suggested. From what I've read, the Classics have a much different sound than the Evos. I should talk though, with Classics up front and Super Audios all around. Hope it all works out.

Yeah, i stared at it for a while more last night. I guess it's really not going to be too bad. Ear height sitting on our main viewing couch is at about the bottom 1/3 of the plasma. Plus if I mount it up high I can snug it up pretty close to the tv's bezel.

So far I've just been using the LR M5s in phantom center mode with pretty good results. My wife and I were watching the New Adventures of Old Christine last night and I think this mode really pops the music out. Dialogue was much more subdued than when they cut to music. I hadn't noticed that before.

The M5s overall seem fairly transparent. They don't jump out at you yelling "HEY - LISTEN TO THIS" they just fill the room with the music and go about their business.

Ryan

Fr. rchcah: To good to be true...just got a call from *******, seems that they only had one speaker for sale at that price, they made a mistake on their website...figures...of course I canceled my order.

Got the same call. I also canceled mine.

Regards...

I'm still awaiting the arrival of my recently-ordered NHT A-1 amps (2) and the X-2 Crossover. With the discontinuation of NHT's line of higher-end electronics, I have seen the NHT Power 2 amp advertised for almost 1/2 price (slightly less than the cost of the two A-1's). Would this Power 2 be a better choice for bi-amping the Classic 4's? I still might have time to change the order.

I am curious also, I have been considering the same thing....

^^^ Assuming the Power2's actual specs are about the same as the Power5's when in 2 channel mode, I believe a Power2 will be about equivalent to a pair of A1s.

But, the A1s match the X1/X2 cosmetically, and they have lights on the bottom of them to illuminate the X1/X2 when placed over it.

^^^ Assuming the Power2's actual specs are about the same as the Power5's when in 2 channel mode, I believe a Power2 will be about equivalent to a pair of A1s.

But, the A1s match the X1/X2 cosmetically, and they have lights on the bottom of them to illuminate the X1/X2 when placed over it.
How about using Power 5 with X2? With four channels used to amplify left and right main's(classic 4's) high/low and the fifth channel to amplify the center(classic 3c)? I have a receiver that has preamp output but no power amp input. Then the receiver would only power four surround speakers.

^^^ That would work too. In fact, since the gain would obviously be the same for all four channels, you could even do it without the X2 (even though
I don't see why anybody wouldn't want the X2), but IMO that would be a way overkill use of power for the Four's upper frequency drivers over 125 Hz.

ok...finally ordered rear speakers. I didnt stick w/NHT for the rears. I have very little to no space between the back wall and the seating position so I opted to go for an on-wall bipole/dipole speaker solution instead. I ended up w/Axiom QS8 V2 s in the all black finish...a little bit over my intended budget but after reading the reviews and having 30 days to try I figured why not. I was actually going to order the "paintable" finish and then try to match the speakers to my C3C and C4 dark gloss but the wife said "NO"...she doesnt have the confidence in me not to screw up the paint job, oh well lol. Ill let you know how they blend w/the Classics.

link: http://www.axiomaudio.com/qs8_main.html

Regards,
Ricky

^^^ That would work too. In fact, since the gain would obviously be the same for all four channels, you could even do it without the X2 (even though
I don't see why anybody wouldn't want the X2), but IMO that would be a way overkill use of power for the Four's upper frequency drivers over 125 Hz.
Thanks Mark! Then I suppose any cheap 2 channel amp should work just fine to amplify Four's upper frequencies. Then my amp setup would be: a pair of A1s for Four's low frequencies, 2 channel amp for Four's uppers and use receiver's amps to power surrounds and the center.

^^^ Well I meant that not all that powerful an amp is really required, not that a cheap one was. :o

Since the A1s will be doing all the heavy lifting so to speak, why not just use the AVR's main L/R amps to power the Fours' upper frequency drivers? It should be more than adequate. ;)

I have a question about my 3C. I just noticed the mid cone is pushed in-dented. Is there anything I can or should do about it? I have not noticed anything sound wise but I also don't know how long the cone has been pushed in. Thanks.

Do you mean the metal dome (not cone) of the midrange driver? Or the dust cap in the center of a woofer?

I mean the metal dome.

I can't comment on that specific driver, but
- it probably won't affect the sound, unless it's such a big dent that it affected the function of the driver; though it will affect the resale value
- there are various tricks for trying to fix it, discussed in other threads, but with a metal dome the chances of messing it up don't seem worth the trouble; and it's not likely to pop right into place, it will still be uneven.

If you really want it fixed, it's usually a matter of replacing it. Someone else will have to comment, but IIRC I'm not sure you can easily swap that out without taking out the whole tweeter mid assembly. Not sure, though.

Several threads on this topic have more info, have a search on dented or dent something like that. Some suggest things like putting some tape (start with the least adhesive!) to pull it out. There's some risk, and it's not going to improve the sound or the resale value since the repair will probably be visible. So replace it or live with it, IMO, but others may differ.

^^^ Well I meant that not all that powerful an amp is really required, not that a cheap one was. :o

Since the A1s will be doing all the heavy lifting so to speak, why not just use the AVR's main L/R amps to power the Fours' upper frequency drivers? It should be more than adequate. ;)
My receiver(Onkyo 805, yes I've sinned it's not NAD or CA;-)) has only preamp outs and has no power amp ins. So I would assume with this receiver, I can't use X2/A1s AND use receiver's amps to power Four's upper frequencies.

My receiver(Onkyo 805, yes I've sinned it's not NAD or CA;-)) has only preamp outs and has no power amp ins. So I would assume with this receiver, I can't use X2/A1s AND use receiver's amps to power Four's upper frequencies.

Check out the attached link to NHT's pdf of the X-2. It looks like you may have a few options.

http://nhthifi.com/current/manuals/current/X2_Manual.pdf

^^^ As dog has alluded to, you CAN use the X2/A1s from nothing more than your AVR's pre-outs. Just set main L/R to large, hook the Fours' upper frequency drivers' speaker wire binding posts up to the main L/R speaker wire outs on the 805, run the main L/R pre-outs on the 805 to the main L/R pre-ins in the X2, sub/LFE out on the 805 to the LFE in on the X2, then jack the low pass crossover on the X2 up as high it will go (220 Hz). You won't even be using the X2's high pass crossover, so just forget about it.

Just remember to remove the jumper straps on the Fours!

BTW, getting the 805 over NAD or CA was not a sin either (and I can't believe I'm actually saying that).

Dog, Mark big thanks! Then Four's upper terminals will receiver Full Band signal and Four's lower terminals will receive min-220Hz frequencies. And Four's internal crossover will apply low pass/high pass filters. Right?

ok, after only a bit of hemming and hawing I grabbed a third M5 for my center. Should have it by the weekend.

Anybody else looking for a pair of M5s? The guy I bought my third from (no relation) has two more (NIB) and is letting them go pretty cheap. He was selling all three for cheaper than i got two for. D'oh!

r

i could use two m5's
art

pm's sent guys.

Hurry up and good luck.

r

ok, after only a bit of hemming and hawing I grabbed a third M5 for my center. Should have it by the weekend.

Anybody else looking for a pair of M5s? The guy I bought my third from (no relation) has two more (NIB) and is letting them go pretty cheap. He was selling all three for cheaper than i got two for. D'oh!

r

Good show, rmplum. Now you'll have a seamless front soundstage, probably more so than Classic Threes and the 3C.

ok! I think ive finally found my second amp for my bi-amp journey. I was late on the Forte 4 pure class A amp but have found a Monarchy Audio SM70 Pro pure class A. If everything works out I should have it by the middle of next week. Now to get some extra speaker cables...

Regards,
Ricky

buy straightwire if you can. i recommend Rhapsody S II speaker cable

Artex4special, are you looking for M5? Are you not using M6? What is your system now?
I got the NHT controller/poweramp5, but it's not really as good so I'm going to return them. The controller was a little bit better than my Rotel RSP-1068 for movies. The poweramp5 is definitely better than the Rotel RMB-1075. It is cleaner and quite good, but kind of cold sounding. For music, that combo can't beat the Nad M3 though. The Nad M3 is clearly more musical but the NHT does sound a little cleaner. But for movies, the controller/poweramp5 is better than my Rotel combo. Then I decide to swap the Integra DTC-9.8 and my Gemstone Amp on the same setup and that combo crush the NHT's for music and HT. The Gemstone Amp make the PowerAmp5 sound little and thin... Also, the Gemstone throws crazy crystal details, yet is musical and smooth, with LOTS of air.. and the bass is deep, fast (like Krell)... I heard it's based on simaudio design..

leepalao, i have the same setup, though i just purchased a panasonic dmp-bd10a. still using m6's but just wanted some m5's for maybe a second ht rig/2 channel. congrats on the nht combo purchase. what do you plan to do with the rotel gear. i am looking gor a rmb-1075.

Artex4special, I just sold the rmb-1075 and the Nad M3. Still trying to sell the rsp-1068. I don't know if it's a good idea to have both NHT for 2 systems. If you already have M6 for 1 system, you may want to try different brands for your second system, unless you are really into the NHT speakers. I have NHT classic for 1 system for mostly music and some HT, but Klipsch untra2 for the pure 100% HT. I'm thinking of replacing those NHT classic to the Dali Helicon series or going back to dynaudio (as that was magic to my ear back then), but I will still keep a pair of classic 4s.. Those classic 4s are already a classic on my system and I will probably hold on to 1 pair for a long time.

leepalao, i actually thought about b&w cm7's. man those are nice speakers. though, still in love with my NHT's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Artex4special, are you looking for M5? Are you not using M6? What is your system now?
I got the NHT controller/poweramp5, but it's not really as good so I'm going to return them. The controller was a little bit better than my Rotel RSP-1068 for movies. The poweramp5 is definitely better than the Rotel RMB-1075. It is cleaner and quite good, but kind of cold sounding. For music, that combo can't beat the Nad M3 though. The Nad M3 is clearly more musical but the NHT does sound a little cleaner. But for movies, the controller/poweramp5 is better than my Rotel combo. Then I decide to swap the Integra DTC-9.8 and my Gemstone Amp on the same setup and that combo crush the NHT's for music and HT. The Gemstone Amp make the PowerAmp5 sound little and thin... Also, the Gemstone throws crazy crystal details, yet is musical and smooth, with LOTS of air.. and the bass is deep, fast (like Krell)... I heard it's based on simaudio design..

Agreed on the sound of the Controller and Power 5 combo on music...to me they sound "edgy" at times w/Classic Fours. I think the inclusion of the Monarchy Audio class A amp for the mids+uppers will really open up the sound.

Regards,
Ricky

Artex4special, are you looking for M5? Are you not using M6? What is your system now?
I got the NHT controller/poweramp5, but it's not really as good so I'm going to return them. The controller was a little bit better than my Rotel RSP-1068 for movies. The poweramp5 is definitely better than the Rotel RMB-1075. It is cleaner and quite good, but kind of cold sounding. For music, that combo can't beat the Nad M3 though. The Nad M3 is clearly more musical but the NHT does sound a little cleaner. But for movies, the controller/poweramp5 is better than my Rotel combo. Then I decide to swap the Integra DTC-9.8 and my Gemstone Amp on the same setup and that combo crush the NHT's for music and HT. The Gemstone Amp make the PowerAmp5 sound little and thin... Also, the Gemstone throws crazy crystal details, yet is musical and smooth, with LOTS of air.. and the bass is deep, fast (like Krell)... I heard it's based on simaudio design..


I have been reading some pretty good things about the 9.8. I have been looking at it a little bit. Have you had any problems with yours. Also the gemstone has come up from time to time when looking for amps, I think you are the first NHt person I have seen that has put it on their system. Sounds like you like it.
Allen

Allen, there's no problem with the 9.8. Maybe if I dig into the settings more, I may find issues but so far everything is good. I forgot how incredible the gemstone is. I've been running it with my Klipsch, but trying it again on the Fours just show how world class that Amp is.. The fours sound so much more powerful and a lot larger with crystal details and air compare to the Power5 or Nad M3... The Integra DTC-9.8 is a good piece, but music is kind of average to my ear... It has all the bell and whistle though.. HT sounds very good, I would have to say it's 60/40 against the controller to the same Amp.. The integra has more details in the highs, but the sound to me is a little compress. In summary, sound is clear but light and compress (similar to a top receiver). The controller has a heavier sound and more Audiophile like..

Allen, there's no problem with the 9.8. Maybe if I dig into the settings more, I may find issues but so far everything is good. I forgot how incredible the gemstone is. I've been running it with my Klipsch, but trying it again on the Fours just show how world class that Amp is.. The fours sound so much more powerful and a lot larger with crystal details and air compare to the Power5 or Nad M3... The Integra DTC-9.8 is a good piece, but music is kind of average to my ear... It has all the bell and whistle though.. HT sounds very good, I would have to say it's 60/40 against the controller to the same Amp.. The integra has more details in the highs, but the sound to me is a little compress. In summary, sound is clear but light and compress (similar to a top receiver). The controller has a heavier sound and more Audiophile like..

Thanks for the information how about movies. I am more HT than anything. If you replaced the gemstone what would you look at.
Allen

Thanks for the information how about movies. I am more HT than anything. If you replaced the gemstone what would you look at.
Allen
I'm not sure. But I do want true XLR though. The gemstone is true XLR design. And I did try XLR from Integra DTC-9.8 to the gemstone and the sound improved (although the Integra is not true XLR). For music, I like Classe/Simaudio/McIntoch and those are likely what I'll get next.. But I do want to keep thing simple and just want 1 multi-channel amp for both music and HT, but at a affordable price. The gemstone is one of those so far, which makes 2 channel sound like 'sweet-full-airy-details 2 channel', and 5 channel sound like 'dynamic-in-your-face 5 channel'... Match well with the classic 4s.. maybe too well..

hello everyone

I am new to this NHT thread. I currently have some classic NHTs in my HT. I have super twos for my front speakers, super center for the center, and super ones for my rear surrounds. I have been dialing my sub crossover at 80hz. Should I bump it to 100hz? Any suggestions would be appreciated

Go with what sounds best to you. All personal preference at that point. For my room 120hz works best.

hello everyone

I am new to this NHT thread. I currently have some classic NHTs in my HT. I have super twos for my front speakers, super center for the center, and super ones for my rear surrounds. I have been dialing my sub crossover at 80hz. Should I bump it to 100hz? Any suggestions would be appreciated

For those speakers I'd keep it at 80. Are you running the Super2s full range or crossed over? What sub?

For those speakers I'd keep it at 80. Are you running the Super2s full range or crossed over? What sub?

When you say full range do u mean with no subs? I have my subs (Def Tech PF15TL+ in the front and Velodyne VLF1012 in the rear) to make my system 7.2 I was keeping the subs dialed in at 80hz in the receiver due to THX specs. But now I just upgraded my receiver from a Yammy 2400 to a Yammy 1800 that is no longer THX but has all the new Blu Ray audio codecs.

L-C-R M5s are all in:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/2304690775_444b9ed09b.jpg

fit well and the wife approval factor is not an issue.

I still don't have a ton of ear time in yet, but have sat through a few CDs and a few Episodes of Nip/Tuck on DVD with good results.

Yes, the subwoofer still needs upgrading (something that also fits in that spot) and I should have grabbed those SuperZeros two weeks ago for the rears.

Ryan

Hello everyone,

I had a chance to listen to the NHT SuperZero Xu's and B&W DM303. Since I'm posting here it's not hard to see which ones I went with :)

Before these I had a cobbled setup of Focal for L&R, JBL for everything else. The center channel died, and I finally decided to push forward and buy a complete new set of speakers that matched.

I must say, they give the Focals a welcome run for their money, which to me is jaw dropping.

Anyway, thought I'd drop in here and say hi.

I should have grabbed those SuperZeros two weeks ago for the rears. If it works for you, you can get the XU in white at One Call.

Well, it's been a couple weeks since I spoke my piece concerning my new classic setup. I jacked in the a1's/x2. But before I get to that let me tell you about another upgrade.

I put in place my Panamax 5500ex and purchased a couple hi-end pwr cables from Frank at Signal Cable. What a difference with the cables alone. I can't believe I ever used stock power cables. Brighter w/o being tinny. The sounstage has opened up. I swear the center and surrounds are playing but I know I'm processing in stereo mode...I check...sure enough, stereo. Man what an improvement. The bass is more pronounced. A bit deeper at the lower end with better mid-bass control/pop. After a couple of 'my' reference discs I'm thrilled.

It was time to engage the a1's/x2 combo to control the c4 bottom. I played the same discs because my ears were fresh to the tunes just played. At first it was boomy. I had my son(audiophile in the making)slowly adjust as I 'ordered' him to do so as I sat in the sweet spot. When everything sounded tight I restarted the disc. If it gets any better I'll piss my pants. And I was using my average Yamaha universal player to play hi rez 2ch dvd-a. I'm in the works of getting a cd only player and will immediately upgrade the pwr cord!

I strongly suggest pwr cable upgrade before buying a new source component. I was skeptical. Was!:D

Power cables?! You're kidding, right?

My Four's finally arrived!!! Damn these things are heavy. I'm still trying to choose between a NAD T775 or the Marantz 8002...

any thoughts?

My local electricty provider won't allow me to upgrade my power cables. It seems that the more pronuonced bass output sends return vibrations back to the originating plant. Since said plant is a 50 year old coal-fired facility the resulting increase in efficiency overloads the equipment and puts it in protection mode.

Red lights everywhere...


:)

Hello everyone,

I had a chance to listen to the NHT SuperZero Xu's and B&W DM303. Since I'm posting here it's not hard to see which ones I went with :)

Before these I had a cobbled setup of Focal for L&R, JBL for everything else. The center channel died, and I finally decided to push forward and buy a complete new set of speakers that matched.

I must say, they give the Focals a welcome run for their money, which to me is jaw dropping.

Anyway, thought I'd drop in here and say hi.

Sounds like another NHT convert! :) Welcome to the club. :cool:

If it works for you, you can get the XU in white at One Call.

Ok, looks like the XUs are plastic, right? Anybody here paint a set with decent results? If I do paint them, anything I need to look out for - i.e. the grills, surface prep.

Thanks,

Ryan

Power cables?! You're kidding, right?

Hear me now...believe me later. No, I'm not in the business of kidding.

My local electricty provider won't allow me to upgrade my power cables. It seems that the more pronuonced bass output sends return vibrations back to the originating plant. Since said plant is a 50 year old coal-fired facility the resulting increase in efficiency overloads the equipment and puts it in protection mode.

Red lights everywhere...


:)


Better not recalibrate the heads on your eight trk player then...imagine that:eek:

Monster
I'm running NHT 1.5s with my new sr8002. NHT isn't known for the most efficient speaker, they really perked up with the Marantz after running a lower powered Denon for many years.

I'm happy with the match up.

Hear me now...believe me later. No, I'm not in the business of kidding.


Hmmm, interesting.. so after 50 miles of outdoor line, transformers, circuit breakers, 500 feet of indoor line, outlets, etc., it's the final 4 feet of power cord that made all the difference? Whodda thunk!

thanks dmc. What part of Dayton are you from? I have lived all over Dayton, graduated from Belmont in 89.

I'm leaning toward the Marantz as it appears to be the least "buggy" of the 2. I like the idea of the NAD's ability to upgrade the cards later, but the when, why and cost begin to factor into the equation.

Now to stay on the NHT point... the wife is really pleased with the looks of the Fours and the 3C. She's hounding me to order a receiver so she can hear them. LOL I wonder how long it'll take to get a receiver shipped here to Oki...

ok, now that my NHT bargain hunting is in full force - I've seen that the SuperSubs are available quite cheap on the used market. Any thoughts on these from the masses? My room is in the small to medium range (about 12x20 with 8' ceilings).

Since a few of you have recommended the SuperZeros to compliment my M5s I was kind of drawn to the SuperSub at the same time. Heck they are even cheap enough that I could probably eventually end up with two. Or should I just go for 1 bigger box like the Hsu STF-2?

Ryan

Hi folks.. question/opinions on some older NHT's.

I've got a set of three (3) SB2's in our family room in a 3.1 setup currently. I'm looking to expand to a full 5-channel setup.. and am wondering about the following three scenarios:

1. Look for another pair of used SB2's for a fully matched set (I don't run MC music though)
2. Look for a pair of SB3's for the L/R.. keep an SB2 at center.. and move the remaining SB2's to rear duty.
3. Look for a pair of ST4's for the L/R.. same as above for everything else.
4. Keep the three SB2's in front and go a little cheaper on the rears w/ SB1's

I'm really quite happy with the SB2's.. haven't heard the SB3's or ST-4's.. would they be a significant improvement? How would either match with a single SB2 at center? I'd go with a more traditional center channel speaker, but I think the SB2 would do okay, and since I've got three already, would rather not waste one of 'em.

Thanks!

Hi folks.. question/opinions on some older NHT's.

I've got a set of three (3) SB2's in our family room in a 3.1 setup currently. I'm looking to expand to a full 5-channel setup.. and am wondering about the following three scenarios:

1. Look for another pair of used SB2's for a fully matched set (I don't run MC music though)
2. Look for a pair of SB3's for the L/R.. keep an SB2 at center.. and move the remaining SB2's to rear duty.
3. Look for a pair of ST4's for the L/R.. same as above for everything else.
4. Keep the three SB2's in front and go a little cheaper on the rears w/ SB1's

I'm really quite happy with the SB2's.. haven't heard the SB3's or ST-4's.. would they be a significant improvement? How would either match with a single SB2 at center? I'd go with a more traditional center channel speaker, but I think the SB2 would do okay, and since I've got three already, would rather not waste one of 'em.

Thanks!

All are completely reasonable and viable options. Just depends on how much money you want to spend.

I've heard the SB2s (once) and owned SB3s and SB1s. They're all great speakers, but I think you will get a noticeable upgrade if you go with SB3s or ST4s for the fronts. I used an SB3 as a center speaker quite successfully (rather than one of the SC models), and I think the SB2 would be fine in the center, and would pair well if not perfectly with SB3s or ST4s.

Hmm.. I guess that was 4 scenarios, huh. :)

Yeah, I don't want to spend a ton of money.. though, maybe I should because these will be going into another room.. more of a dedicated media space with nicer electronics and PJ. But, I figure with a nice sub, I should be okay with smaller bookshelves. However, I'm not sure about the center position being so small. I guess I will move the front three in there I have now and give it a whirl with a nice loud action flick and see how everything fares.

Thanks for the opinion. I welcome any others as well.

All are completely reasonable and viable options. Just depends on how much money you want to spend.

I've heard the SB2s (once) and owned SB3s and SB1s. They're all great speakers, but I think you will get a noticeable upgrade if you go with SB3s or ST4s for the fronts. I used an SB3 as a center speaker quite successfully (rather than one of the SC models), and I think the SB2 would be fine in the center, and would pair well if not perfectly with SB3s or ST4s.

Monster
Vandalia. Enjoy the setup, should be a winner.

Ok guys me again. I found a guy locally selling some older NHT and I can't find much about it, the sub/amp combo is not listed on NHT's vintage page.

here's what he has:

NHT Super Zero pair (gloss white) - $100

NHT SW2PI 10" Subwoofer (gloss white) & companion MA-1A Amplifier $200

He will sell me the whole lot for $250. Plus I can pick it up, so no shipping.

My biggest question is the sub. For a 13x20' room with 8 foot ceilings is it going to get me by? I'm not a "blaster" don't need to blow the floors off - just want a nice solid system. This seems like a lot of equipment for $250 but my research isn't pulling up much. The gloss white is not so desirable, but I can make it work if the price is good. This would be used with my M5 L,C,R front setup.

The SW2Pi subwoofer uses an SA2 amplifier.

The SW2P subwoofer uses an MA1A amplifier.

Either the subwoofer and amplifier are mismatched or someone can't read the model names off of the back of the product.

The SW2Pi subwoofer uses an SA2 amplifier.

The SW2P subwoofer uses an MA1A amplifier.

Either the subwoofer and amplifier are mismatched or someone can't read the model names off of the back of the product.

Thanks for that info Jack. I have an email in to the seller asking for clarification and photos.

Ryan

It's probably an SW2P as the sub module would only say SW2 on the back as i recall. It's been awhile, but I think they system was called SW2Pi was the system, but not any of the parts were called that. Not 100% sure though.

As for Jack, i can only say "It's ALIIIIIIIVE!"

It's probably an SW2P as the sub module would only say SW2 on the back as i recall. It's been awhile, but I think they system was called SW2Pi was the system, but not any of the parts were called that. Not 100% sure though.


John,

this is what I am assuming. The more I think about it, the outboard amp option is very tempting. My subwoofer is going in the back corner of my room. By mounting the MA1A amp in my main rack, I only need to run one set or 14 AWG speaker wire back to the sub.

I figured out last night that the LFE output on my receiver is bad, so I am forced to use the speaker level outputs until I get a new receiver.

Ryan

The SW2Pi subwoofer uses an SA2 amplifier.

The SW2P subwoofer uses an MA1A amplifier.

Either the subwoofer and amplifier are mismatched or someone can't read the model names off of the back of the product.


Jack,

Can the SW-2P subwoofer be improved upon with one of the 10" drivers that you are selling, or is it the same difference?

It's probably an SW2P as the sub module would only say SW2 on the back as i recall. It's been awhile, but I think they system was called SW2Pi was the system, but not any of the parts were called that. Not 100% sure though.

As for Jack, i can only say "It's ALIIIIIIIVE!"



The older subwoofer is the SW2.

The newer subwoofer with the newer "improved" driver is a SW2Si.

Monday, February 25, 2008
Happy Birthday and why are you still here?

NHT turned 21 on December 18, 2007. Oddly enough, it was also the same month that I and another employee "lifer" bought our company back. It has been bought and sold now 5 times since 1990. Each buyer got caught up in the brand's reputation for great sounding products. Each had their own vision of how they could make us a big commercial success. Each of them failed.

No company can withstand that many different strategies. NHT should be dead and gone, but here we are... the cockroach of speaker brands lives on. There are lots of people that think they know the reason. Some say it's the passion of those working here, some say we are the most stubborn folks on the planet. Personally, I think it is because NHT is a craft. We love music here in a big way and designing each new speaker is like making a new instrument. We let our hearts and hands guide the development. This is not a recipe for big business and we "get" there is no chance of us ruling the audio earth. That's ok though. When it's all over for us humans, the cockroaches will be checking their tunes out on their NHT's.

from:

http://nowhearthisblog.blogspot.com/

Then Four's upper terminals will receiver Full Band signal and Four's lower terminals will receive min-220Hz frequencies. And Four's internal crossover will apply low pass/high pass filters. Right?

Right, at 125 Hz, but there will still be at least some double LP filtering going on though.

My local electricty provider won't allow me to upgrade my power cables. It seems that the more pronuonced bass output sends return vibrations back to the originating plant. Since said plant is a 50 year old coal-fired facility the resulting increase in efficiency overloads the equipment and puts it in protection mode.

Red lights everywhere...


:)

I'm surprised Monster or somebody hasn't already yet tried to market a power generator specifically for audio equipment for several thousand $$. I'm sure at least some "audiophiles" would buy them. ;):p

from:

http://nowhearthisblog.blogspot.com/Interesting but the cockroach thing is kind of icky. :p

Ugh. I don't know how that helped further the brand image......

If anyone here had any designs on getting that pair of "VT-1.4s" currently on ebay, item number: 220208745767, be advised that they are definitely NOT VT-1.4s. They are most likely VT-1.2s instead.

This just goes to show that you can't always take for granted that a seller knows exactly what they have. :o

Im thinking of using my Power 2 along with my controller's 2nd zone to put a 2 channel system in parallel with my 5.0 classic 4 based system. Does anyone have any good speaker recommendations that would sound totally different than my classic 4's. Sometimes with the classic 4's my vinyl and cds sound a bit tinny and a little thin in the midrange so if you know of speakers that sound warm and rich with NHT electronics Id appreciate your input.

Im thinking of using my Power 2 along with my controller's 2nd zone to put a 2 channel system in parallel with my 5.0 classic 4 based system. Does anyone have any good speaker recommendations that would sound totally different than my classic 4's. Sometimes with the classic 4's my vinyl and cds sound a bit tinny and a little thin in the midrange so if you know of speakers that sound warm and rich with NHT electronics Id appreciate your input.

You could try Revel Performa M22s (expensive) or even NHT M5s (hard to find).

Not *too* hard to find ;)

Ugh. I don't know how that helped further the brand image......

Yeah - tres bizarre! A weird synopsis of NHT's history indeed.

Im thinking of using my Power 2 along with my controller's 2nd zone to put a 2 channel system in parallel with my 5.0 classic 4 based system. Does anyone have any good speaker recommendations that would sound totally different than my classic 4's. Sometimes with the classic 4's my vinyl and cds sound a bit tinny and a little thin in the midrange so if you know of speakers that sound warm and rich with NHT electronics Id appreciate your input.

This isn't a direct answer to your question. But I always figured if I were going to set up a second system and have it sound very different from my main (Classic) one, I'd pick a non-traditional design. Something like Magnepans maybe... or something vintage.

Here is a photo of an NHT M-5 setup. Any comments on what is wrong with this setup?


http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ThumpinSub/Teatro%20di%20Casa/FrontView.jpg?

Here is a photo of an NHT M-5 setup. Any comments on what is wrong with this setup?


http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ThumpinSub/Teatro%20di%20Casa/FrontView.jpg?

The center should be placed horizontally with the tweeter facing up.

You are correct.


On another web site there are a bunch of bumbasses who think that is an MTM center. They all insist that the Evolution lobing pattern is identical to a 2 way MTM speaker, and the vertical position is the correct one.


The dumbass who posted the picture of that setup was playing "follow the leader". No way to contradict the forum "gurus" and "clubhouse" members either. Hey, you can lead a mule to water but you can not make him take a bath!

You are correct.


On another web site there are a bunch of bumbasses who think that is an MTM center. They all insist that the Evolution lobing pattern is identical to a 2 way MTM speaker, and the vertical position is the correct one.

Evidently none of these bumbasses have taken the time to read the manual.

Evidently none of these bumbasses have taken the time to read the manual.


Here is a comment about my suggestion to read the information in the Evolution manual and quotes made by me on the Evolution products dispersion pattern. This is quoted from the boards dominant audio "guru". The "guru" is pretty bright, but I have severe doubts about his mental stability. "Dumbass" is a far better description than "guru", but I will go with guru for now.


QUOTE by GURU:

"In my expert opinion, as someone over 35-years old....

I am a speaker expert. The most genius know-it-all super-knowledgeable, infallable and absolutely most perfect expert ever in the history of all time. And, all the marketing nonsense you just posted doesn't mean a thing.

I have worked with these speakers firsthand a number of times, and I know for a fact, based on real world measurements and listening auditions in real homes that this speaker sound better and blends better if it is oriented vertically.

There is a HUGE difference between what someone claims in a marketing document and what is really going on. While NHT's interesting design is a big improvement on the lobing problem, it isn't a cure. If someone where fully intending to have a horizontal center and they were comparing two speakers for the job, this one and another more traditional model, then the NHT is a better choice. But better performance would be achieved by a vertical orientation."



His frame of reference is his home made set MTM speakers wired via an actice crossover setup. Talk about needless complexity. I guess the "logoc" is that since the "guru's" speakers have an MTM setup, then every speaker that looks similar to an MTM speaker must work like an MTM speaker!


.

This isn't a direct answer to your question. But I always figured if I were going to set up a second system and have it sound very different from my main (Classic) one, I'd pick a non-traditional design. Something like Magnepans maybe... or something vintage.

I agree with Matt. I participated in some car audio evaluation clinics about 5 or 6 years ago hosted by a guy named Dave Clark (now head of R&D at Alpine I believe). The infamous Tom Nousaine worked for him, so I got to meet him a few times! Their reference setup used an enormous pair of Magnepan MG3As (with some Velodyne Subs to fill out the bottom). I don't have a lot of exposure to different systems but those speakers just took my breath away. My house and lifestyle (2 year old daughter) is completely incompatible with a set of Magnepans right now but maybe someday.

Hint: for a smaller version of the Magnepan-ish sound, try to pick up an old set of Monsoon MM-1000 computer speakers. Dave Clark did a lot of the development on the early Monsoon stuff and recommended it to us as a smaller scale system.

Ryan
p.s. - got my $70 SuperZero Xu's yesterday. Wow - they sound great. I set them up in my living room last night and listened to Coltrane for about two hours, completely lost track of time and am paying for it this morning!

Ryan
p.s. - got my $70 SuperZero Xu's yesterday. Wow - they sound great. I set them up in my living room last night and listened to Coltrane for about two hours, completely lost track of time and am paying for it this morning!



Yup, those are great to use for surround speakers. Which polarity did you use for the SuperZeros?

Yup, those are great to use for surround speakers. Which polarity did you use for the SuperZeros?

My main 3.1 setup (with the M5s):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/2304690775_444b9ed09b.jpg

is in my family room.

I wanted to try these out on their own first so I mounted them on the walls in my living room to check out (2.1 system). So I have them wired up normally. I do remember you guys saying though that if I team them up with the M5s as surrounds, I should reverse the polarity though. Why is that - not questioning, just curious.

Ryan

My main 3.1 setup (with the M5s):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/2304690775_444b9ed09b.jpg

is in my family room.

I wanted to try these out on their own first so I mounted them on the walls in my living room to check out (2.1 system). So I have them wired up normally. I do remember you guys saying though that if I team them up with the M5s as surrounds, I should reverse the polarity though. Why is that - not questioning, just curious.

Ryan



Internal to the speaker, the low frequency drivers of the M-5 and SuperZero are wired in reverse polarity from each other. That is the primary reason that you should always be careful when you mix and match speakers.

Internal to the speaker, the low frequency drivers of the M-5 and SuperZero are wired in reverse polarity from each other. That is the primary reason that you should always be careful when you mix and match speakers.

ok, good to know. This local guy is all over me to purchase his SuperZero SW2P/MA1A setup but that sub is pretty big and pretty bright white.

Ryan

Here is a comment about my suggestion to read the information in the Evolution manual and quotes made by me on the Evolution products dispersion pattern. This is quoted from the boards dominant audio "guru". The "guru" is pretty bright, but I have severe doubts about his mental stability. "Dumbass" is a far better description than "guru", but I will go with guru for now.


QUOTE by GURU:

"In my expert opinion, as someone over 35-years old....

I am a speaker expert. The most genius know-it-all super-knowledgeable, infallable and absolutely most perfect expert ever in the history of all time. And, all the marketing nonsense you just posted doesn't mean a thing.

I have worked with these speakers firsthand a number of times, and I know for a fact, based on real world measurements and listening auditions in real homes that this speaker sound better and blends better if it is oriented vertically.

There is a HUGE difference between what someone claims in a marketing document and what is really going on. While NHT's interesting design is a big improvement on the lobing problem, it isn't a cure. If someone where fully intending to have a horizontal center and they were comparing two speakers for the job, this one and another more traditional model, then the NHT is a better choice. But better performance would be achieved by a vertical orientation."



His frame of reference is his home made set MTM speakers wired via an actice crossover setup. Talk about needless complexity. I guess the "logoc" is that since the "guru's" speakers have an MTM setup, then every speaker that looks similar to an MTM speaker must work like an MTM speaker!


.That block diagram is something else. I seriously doubt all those active crossovers are worth the complexity in cost and sound quality.

thanks for your input guys...I actually listened to the Revel M22's a few weeks ago and they sound great, however, I was listening to them on a very expensive system at a local dealer. Ive done some searching on them and they are very hard to find used and a bit over my budget new. Ive thought about the maggies as well but space precludes them. Im considering the Ohm Micro Walsh. They are nice and small, under 1000 bucks, a non traditional design and they offer a 120 day in home trial. Anyone have any experience with these?

I agree with Matt. I participated in some car audio evaluation clinics about 5 or 6 years ago hosted by a guy named Dave Clark (now head of R&D at Alpine I believe). The infamous Tom Nousaine worked for him, so I got to meet him a few times! Their reference setup used an enormous pair of Magnepan MG3As (with some Velodyne Subs to fill out the bottom). I don't have a lot of exposure to different systems but those speakers just took my breath away. My house and lifestyle (2 year old daughter) is completely incompatible with a set of Magnepans right now but maybe someday.

Hint: for a smaller version of the Magnepan-ish sound, try to pick up an old set of Monsoon MM-1000 computer speakers. Dave Clark did a lot of the development on the early Monsoon stuff and recommended it to us as a smaller scale system.

Ryan
p.s. - got my $70 SuperZero Xu's yesterday. Wow - they sound great. I set them up in my living room last night and listened to Coltrane for about two hours, completely lost track of time and am paying for it this morning!

Just to be clear, I've listened to the $1000-ish Maggies and they definitely have some major flaws. I'd never want them as a primary speaker.

But there's something magical about what they do, too, and I think they'd be sort of like dating a crazy girl: fun to have in the bedroom but you wouldn't want to have to live with them. :D

Here is a comment about my suggestion to read the information in the Evolution manual and quotes made by me on the Evolution products dispersion pattern. This is quoted from the boards dominant audio "guru". The "guru" is pretty bright, but I have severe doubts about his mental stability. "Dumbass" is a far better description than "guru", but I will go with guru for now.


QUOTE by GURU:

"In my expert opinion, as someone over 35-years old....

I am a speaker expert. The most genius know-it-all super-knowledgeable, infallable and absolutely most perfect expert ever in the history of all time. And, all the marketing nonsense you just posted doesn't mean a thing.

I have worked with these speakers firsthand a number of times, and I know for a fact, based on real world measurements and listening auditions in real homes that this speaker sound better and blends better if it is oriented vertically.

There is a HUGE difference between what someone claims in a marketing document and what is really going on. While NHT's interesting design is a big improvement on the lobing problem, it isn't a cure. If someone where fully intending to have a horizontal center and they were comparing two speakers for the job, this one and another more traditional model, then the NHT is a better choice. But better performance would be achieved by a vertical orientation."



His frame of reference is his home made set MTM speakers wired via an actice crossover setup. Talk about needless complexity. I guess the "logoc" is that since the "guru's" speakers have an MTM setup, then every speaker that looks similar to an MTM speaker must work like an MTM speaker!


.

Why don't you show that dumbass who thinks he is a self proclaimed expert what the man himself who actually designed and built the damned speakers had to say about it: ;)

For the L and R, you want to orient the M5s vertically. This is because they have asymmetric lateral dispersion designed to limit the midrange output that hits the sidewalls.

The M5/M6 directs the sound at a fixed angle. If your M5/M6 is placed under your TV, you want the M5/M6 orientated to direct the sound upwards. If it is on top of the TV, you want it to direct the sound downwards. This is done by putting the M5/M6 right side up or upside down. Maybe this is what you are thinking of.

See section 11.2 in the Evolution manual for the explanation. The correct tweeter location relative to the TV has to do with where the listener is located relative to the speaker.

If the speaker is on top of the TV, the listener will probably be located below the speaker. This puts the speakers main radiation axis (curves A and B) aimed at the listener.

If the speaker is below the TV, the listener will probably be located above the speaker. This also puts the speakers main radiation axis (curves A and B) aimed at the listener.

If you had a TV in which the bottom was 5' off of the ground, you would want to put the tweeter AWAY from the TV. This would aim the sound downwards at the listener.

In practice you never have a TV that has its bottom 5' off the ground, so we just say to keep the tweeter against the TV in all cases. This rule almost always works.

I would use three M5s in the front. The M5 is 7.75" tall, so it will fit above or below your plasma. The L and R M5s should be oriented vertically. That will help keep the first reflection off of the wall/doors to the right side. Definitely run all three front M5s in the boundary 1 position.

M5/M6s can be used standing up or laying down as long as the tweeter is facing in the correct direction. See the Evolution Owner's manual on the NHT site for a complete description (mostly in section 11).

The Boundary switch is important. It really does work.

I was a dealer for NHT until their recent price increase. If anyone is interested in buying my Classic setup let me know. I have also recently heard that the company was sold again to the original owners, and that the evolution and Xd line is going to get canned. Has anyone else heard these rumors?

thanks for your input guys...I actually listened to the Revel M22's a few weeks ago and they sound great, however, I was listening to them on a very expensive system at a local dealer. Ive done some searching on them and they are very hard to find used and a bit over my budget new. Ive thought about the maggies as well but space precludes them. Im considering the Ohm Micro Walsh. They are nice and small, under 1000 bucks, a non traditional design and they offer a 120 day in home trial. Anyone have any experience with these?

Short of the M22s, for the $$$ I'd recommend NHT M5s or Twos and Revel M12s.

I have also recently heard that the company was sold again to the original owners, and that the evolution and Xd line is going to get canned. Has anyone else heard these rumors?

All true, not just rumors, and covered a ways back in this thread. The Vinci Labs made NHT electronics are now gone too. :(:mad:

If only NHT could stick to something for more that a year :) Actually, If only NHT could keep an owner for more than a year.

Why don't you show that dumbass who thinks he is a self proclaimed expert what the man himself who actually designed and built the damned speakers had to say about it: ;)Kind of like when Woody Allen pulls Marshall McLuhan out from behind a kiosk in "Annie Hall."

Peter

Why don't you show that dumbass who thinks he is a self proclaimed expert what the man himself who actually designed and built the damned speakers had to say about it: ;)


I did that. I quoted Mr. Hidley (by name) exactly as posted on this forum, same parts that you quoted. That was not good enough for them (AKA Guru and bumbass followers). Even the moderators are part of the dumbass group at the other site.

Telling people to read the instruction manual is considered to be a personal attack by the moderators over there.


To reinforce the bumbass position on the Evolution product, here is a picture that one of the moderators posted for his personal MTM center speaker setup (NHT VS 1.4). The sonic rationalization being that both are NHT speakers. Since the VS 1.4 is an MTM speaker, it will work properly in a vertical manner as a center speaker. As we all know, that is hardly the case for the Evolution speakers.

.

Hi All,
Id post this question in the NHT Controller thread but its pretty much dead. So anyways, I just received my Monarchy Audio amp and in the manual it says that the preouts from the pre/pro should not have a dc component to them. I guess maybe I should be asking this of the X2 as well since im planning on bi-amping my Fours. Any NHT gurus know if the Controller/X2 has a dc component in their preouts?

Regards,
Ricky

Hi All,
Id post this question in the NHT Controller thread but its pretty much dead. So anyways, I just received my Monarchy Audio amp and in the manual it says that the preouts from the pre/pro should not have a dc component to them. I guess maybe I should be asking this of the X2 as well since im planning on bi-amping my Fours. Any NHT gurus know if the Controller/X2 has a dc component in their preouts?

Regards,
Ricky
No need to worry. DC is filtered out (unless the Controller or X2 are defective).

Thanks Tony...I knew I could count on one of you to know the answer! Btw, i'll report back on me experimentation.

Regards,
Ricky

I did that. I quoted Mr. Hidley (by name) exactly as posted on this forum, same parts that you quoted. That was not good enough for them (AKA Guru and bumbass followers). Even the moderators are part of the dumbass group at the other site.

Telling people to read the instruction manual is considered to be a personal attack by the moderators over there.


To reinforce the bumbass position on the Evolution product, here is a picture that one of the moderators posted for his personal MTM center speaker setup (NHT VS 1.4). The sonic rationalization being that both are NHT speakers. Since the VS 1.4 is an MTM speaker, it will work properly in a vertical manner as a center speaker. As we all know, that is hardly the case for the Evolution speakers.

.

Oh well, then if he never even tries his CC M5 horizontally, then he'll never even know what he is missing out on, and it's his loss. This only lends credibility to the saying that those that don't know, don't even know that they don't know - ignorance is truly bliss.

I can't remember who it was, I want to say General Paton, but I'm not sure, that said "Never underestimate (or was it overestimate?) stupidity!"

Exactly.

...I hooked my Four's up to my Fat Man iTube iPod dock. For those who have been wondering what they would sound like with a tube amp...:D not bad at all. The bottom end is a little loose but hitting harder than I thought they would. The upper end is just this side of magical; of course I have been listening to some rather unorthodox music lately (Beastie Boys Ill Communication). I'll try some Zep and some Who later. I'm just blown away at the detail that I have missed over the years. My Mustang with MB's don't sound this good. This little 13 watt hybrid tube amp shouldn't sound this good, oh and its all mp3 at 320kbps...:eek: I'd post pics, but I am clueless as to how to do that. I have to keep reminding myself that I don't have the center speaker hooked up, these Four's front stage is just amazing. I still need to figure out what AVR to go with...I'd love to pop for the NAD T785, but it seems to be really buggy...the Marantz SR8002 is looking better. I'd love to get both but shipping one or the other back to the states would be an expensive proposition...oh well, I'm still diggin' this little amp

...I hooked my Four's up to my Fat Man iTube iPod dock. For those who have been wondering what they would sound like with a tube amp...:D not bad at all. The bottom end is a little loose but hitting harder than I thought they would. The upper end is just this side of magical; of course I have been listening to some rather unorthodox music lately (Beastie Boys Ill Communication). I'll try some Zep and some Who later. I'm just blown away at the detail that I have missed over the years. My Mustang with MB's don't sound this good. This little 13 watt hybrid tube amp shouldn't sound this good, oh and its all mp3 at 320kbps...:eek: I'd post pics, but I am clueless as to how to do that. I have to keep reminding myself that I don't have the center speaker hooked up, these Four's front stage is just amazing. I still need to figure out what AVR to go with...I'd love to pop for the NAD T785, but it seems to be really buggy...the Marantz SR8002 is looking better. I'd love to get both but shipping one or the other back to the states would be an expensive proposition...oh well, I'm still diggin' this little amp

you should look into the rotel rsx-1058

I just got new audioquest sidewinder interconnects to replace my el cheapo radio shack cables to connect my Controller to my Power 5 and now Im getting a buzzing sound when the 5 channels are engaged. Are these higher quality cables more susceptible to outside interference? How can I fix this?

Just wait till ListenUp and/or Hi Def starts blowing out Xds at half price. ;)

The time is here. ListenUp now has standard, single sub Xd systems in the maple and burgundy finish only for $3000 shipped.

Quite simply, you will NOT find a better new pair of full range speakers or a sub/sat combo that also already has it's own power amp, stands, wire, and sub cable included for that price or less by anybody anywhere. :eek:

I just got new audioquest sidewinder interconnects to replace my el cheapo radio shack cables to connect my Controller to my Power 5 and now Im getting a buzzing sound when the 5 channels are engaged. Are these higher quality cables more susceptible to outside interference? How can I fix this?

check your cable line.

The time is here. ListenUp now has standard, single sub Xd systems in the maple and burgundy finish only for $3000 shipped.

Quite simply, you will NOT find a better new pair of full range speakers or a sub/sat combo that also already has it's own power amp, stands, wire, and sub cable included for that price or less by anybody anywhere. :eek:

Thanks for the info Mark. It might be time to go two channel!

check your cable line.


Do you mean the cable tv line? I dont have one hooked to my Controller.

Ive read before that ground loops can cause this but its confusing because there was absolutely no hum or buzz when I was using the cheap interconnects.

The time is here. ListenUp now has standard, single sub Xd systems in the maple and burgundy finish only for $3000 shipped.

Quite simply, you will NOT find a better new pair of full range speakers or a sub/sat combo that also already has it's own power amp, stands, wire, and sub cable included for that price or less by anybody anywhere. :eek:

Oh my God. So tempting.

The time is here. ListenUp now has standard, single sub Xd systems in the maple and burgundy finish only for $3000 shipped.

Quite simply, you will NOT find a better new pair of full range speakers or a sub/sat combo that also already has it's own power amp, stands, wire, and sub cable included for that price or less by anybody anywhere. :eek:

Wow. Which, incidently, is the same thing I said the first time I heard them.

For $4500 one could have a seriously world class two channel music system. That's cool and crazy at the same time.

My wife is going to kill me....

Too bad listen doesn't have it in the special dark color. I already have a Xd 2.2 system and would gladly add another 2.1 setup for the bedroom (yes I know overkill) or maybe as surround duties or even center channel or something but only if they had the special dark color.

Has anyone seen both the special dark and the "regular" color side by side and can comment with their thoughts? I took a chance on the special dark and it is great with my decor.

Come on ListenUP, sell the special dark at that price too. :(

Curtis

Keep in mind too, that free shipping on that deal is no small afterthought either since even with a single sub unit, there are still 6 boxes in the package.

Hi All,
I finally had a chance to wire in my new "used" Monarchy Audio SM70-Pro stereo amp into a bi-amp configuration to my C4s and am very impressed with the sound. This little amp is all class A@20wpc and powers the mids+uppers while im using two of the Power 5 amps to load the woofers. Thanks to John everything is tied together with the X2 crossover. I had mentioned in an earlier post I thought the mids+uppers sounded a bit "edgy", "tinsy" , "sharp" using just the Power 5 but with the MA the sound is very "natural", "smooth" and "warm". The imaging was pretty good before, now its scary good! Diana Krall, Nora Jones et al are very center stage and right in front of you. Sound stage is a bit wider and I can really hear more detail in the instrumentation. The mid range is fuller and tighter as evidenced when listening to some Basia and Acoustic Alchemy. The bass is quicker and tighter as well...the Power 5 is excellent in this regard. Overall, im VERY satisfied with the sound. As an added plus the little MA amp really didnt get hot at all during extended listening periods @80 spl listening levels...luke warm is about where its at. And of course the Power 5 being a class D amp was cool to the touch. Integration of the two amps using the main gain control, boundry setting and phase setting was very easy thanks to all of you here in the NHT forum...Thanks Much!!! I now have to clean up the wiring and place all of my components in their final sitting place in the audio rack. I'll post pics later in the week. Again thanks everyone for helping me put this system together!

Best Regards,
Ricky

Wow. Which, incidently, is the same thing I said the first time I heard them.

For $4500 one could have a seriously world class two channel music system. That's cool and crazy at the same time.

My wife is going to kill me....

With the $4500 figure, I assume you are talking about also picking up a Controller as a pre-amp? If so, for 2 channel only, I'd just get a good 2 channel pre-amp with fully balanced outputs instead. I have two myself, a now discontinued NAD S100 and a B&K Reference 5 S2, and they both sound great with the Xds.

However, if you are planning on setting up a surround system based on Xds as main L/R (and obviously as the subs too of course), especially with other NHT speakers as the CC and surrounds, then the Controller will automatically account for the slight time delay of the Xd's digital processing and tie them all together as well as they possibly can be through it's speaker wizard.

As for the best match as a CC and surrounds, this is what Jack had to say about it:

To use with Xd nothing is really going to match for center or surround. A VC3, AC2, TwoC or ThreeC will probably be the best match as a center. You will need to experiment to see which one works best. For the surrounds, Threes will probably work best.

It seems to me that AZs would be a halfway descent surround match too.

I am the proud new owner of an Evolution T5 (2 x A1) with an M5 centre and two L5 surrounds.... 'wow' is all I can say!

I am thinking about adding a sub woofer for LFE (only) - as I would like to get that last bit of chest thumping sound out of movies. My question is: how best should I do this with my Evolution set-up? For example, do I need a second X1 with the 20Hz mod and would an NHT sub give me that visceral feeling I'm looking for (or am I better with something like an AV123 MFW-15)?

Any and all comments are appreciated.

A question along the same lines for those guys that have experience with pure M/L 5, 5.1 systems; For movies and music, what should sound better, a pair of U2's or a pair of HGS-12's?

Thanks

Larry

Hey guys, it's not me and I have no relation to the seller, but there are a set of the B5 base/passive subwoofer units on ebay right now, and it looks like they are brand new (item # 230228821163).

If I wasn't restricted to my entertainment center I'd grab them - I love my M5s and can only imagine how well the whole T5 system sounds.

Ryan

Hey guys, it's not me and I have no relation to the seller, but there are a set of the B5 base/passive subwoofer units on ebay right now, and it looks like they are brand new (item # 230228821163).

If I wasn't restricted to my entertainment center I'd grab them - I love my M5s and can only imagine how well the whole T5 system sounds.

Ryan

Of course you need an X1 and an A1 for these to actually work.

Of course you need an X1 and an A1 for these to actually work.

Yes, that is true - or an equivalent setup and the auction does NOT include the amp or the crossover.

Too bad listen doesn't have it in the special dark color. I already have a Xd 2.2 system and would gladly add another 2.1 setup for the bedroom (yes I know overkill) or maybe as surround duties or even center channel or something but only if they had the special dark color.

Has anyone seen both the special dark and the "regular" color side by side and can comment with their thoughts? I took a chance on the special dark and it is great with my decor.

Come on ListenUP, sell the special dark at that price too. :(

I don't think there is any to sell any more, but there was. As I'm not one of their sudden favorite online dealers, they pretty much don't tell me anything anymore. Their new love affair with online places rather than real dealers is causing me to not sign the new dealer agreements this time. I thought I'd give them one more chance to prove this wasn't going to be the same old shiite but they went right back to old patterns. I've lost tens of $thousands in sales in the past 3 or 4 months to online blowouts. I don't think I'll be suffering, with Revel, PSB and Era taking their place, but I feel like a moron for hanging in as long as I have. I should have just bailed when Bill Bush left as the promised pot at the end of the rainbow never did materialize.

I am the proud new owner of an Evolution T5 (2 x A1) with an M5 centre and two L5 surrounds.... 'wow' is all I can say!

I am thinking about adding a sub woofer for LFE (only) - as I would like to get that last bit of chest thumping sound out of movies. My question is: how best should I do this with my Evolution set-up? For example, do I need a second X1 with the 20Hz mod and would an NHT sub give me that visceral feeling I'm looking for (or am I better with something like an AV123 MFW-15)?

Any and all comments are appreciated.

Just pick up a couple of W2s (from the U2 set) to add to the B5s and get the 20 Hz mod on the X1. This will also still allow you to run true stereo bass. Don't try to mix any other kind of sub or subs with the Evo subs.

Or, you could pick up a big, bad @$$ sub and run it only during movies while running only the B5s for music if you don't mind the complications of switching back and forth.

Yes, that is true - or an equivalent setup and the auction does NOT include the amp or the crossover.

Nor the K5 kits which would be required to actually safely mount a pair of M5s on them. He has them in another separate auction. :rolleyes:

A question along the same lines for those guys that have experience with pure M/L 5, 5.1 systems; For movies and music, what should sound better, a pair of U2's or a pair of HGS-12's?

Thanks

Larry

Depending on how much you could get the Velos for, but, if you can still find them, the closeout prices the Evo subs are now going for make them the absolute best new sub deal on the market right now.

I'd suggest picking up two U2 sets (four total W2s), and getting the 20 Hz mod on an X1. Now that is a sweet little bass system for the $$$ for either music or movies. :D

Just pick up a couple of W2s (from the U2 set) to add to the B5s and get the 20 Hz mod on the X1. This will also still allow you to run true stereo bass. Don't try to mix any other kind of sub or subs with the Evo subs.

Mark - thanks

If you don't mind could you describe the wiring configuration, e.g. do I need a second X1... or can I use my existing one (with a 20Hz mod)... do I need one or two more A1s to power the W2s... are the W2s set-up for LFE-only or are they run in stereo as the B5s?

My apologizes for the many questions, but I'm just not familiar enough with the workings of the Evolution set-up to visualize how this would work.

^^^ You already have everything you need as far as the electronics go, two A1s and one X1. All you would have to do is pick up two W2 cabinets and get the 20 Hz mod done to the X1.

I'd set the X1 to stereo, and hook one W2 and one B5 up per side to each corresponding A1 for stereo bass while placing that side's W2 towards the back of the room, but you can always experiment with mono bass too, and in either case, placement of the W2 cabinets, such as in each front corner for example.

I'd set the X1 to stereo, and hook one W2 and one B5 up per side to each corresponding A1 for stereo bass while placing that side's W2 towards the back of the room, but you can always experiment with mono bass too, and in either case, placement of the W2 cabinets, such as in each front corner for example.

Thanks for the info, this will also work in my setup. Now to find some W2s...

Nor the K5 kits which would be required to actually safely mount a pair of M5s on them. He has them in another separate auction. :rolleyes:


We should all make him a fair offer. An offer of $1.01 sounds fair as long as he pays for the shipping!:D

Hi all-

Thanks to the alert readers on this forum I was able to take advantage of the blowout sales going on with the Special Dark finish and picked up a pair of Classic Fours. I've never even seen the color in the flesh, but have liked the photos of it, so fingers crossed! At 50% price it was impossible to pass up. They should arrive next week!

Has anyway compared their 4's bi-amped without an crossover, to bi-amped with a crossover. I know Jack said the double filtering is good, and I have no doubt it is. I would just like to hear some real world experience in what difference there is.

We should all make him a fair offer. An offer of $1.01 sounds fair as long as he pays for the shipping!:D

I'll go up to $1.87. :p

Has anyway compared their 4's bi-amped without an crossover, to bi-amped with a crossover. I know Jack said the double filtering is good, and I have no doubt it is. I would just like to hear some real world experience in what difference there is.

Jack has since retracted that though in the case of the Fours:

Mark,

As it turns out, the optimal settings for the X2 biamping the Fours did end up being with the HP at min and the LP at max.

Irregardless of the crossovers though, the X2 gives you separate totally independent gain controls for both 2 channel and LFE, along with very comprehensive phase and boundary Eq controls.

Hi all-

Thanks to the alert readers on this forum I was able to take advantage of the blowout sales going on with the Special Dark finish and picked up a pair of Classic Fours. I've never even seen the color in the flesh, but have liked the photos of it, so fingers crossed! At 50% price it was impossible to pass up. They should arrive next week!

I don't think you'll be too disappointed. The SD color is almost chameleon-like in it's ability to seeming change shades within different settings and/or light.

Can anyone with a copy of the latest Stereophile confirm that the Controller/Power5 received a Class B rating?

I second the chameleon like color of the SD classic 4's. I was worried I wouldnt like the color but I think it looks better than black if you prefer your speakers to "disappear" into your decor. The high gloss finish makes them become the color of whatever is around them.

Can anyone with a copy of the latest Stereophile confirm that the Controller/Power5 received a Class B rating?Yes, it's in there, though as you know it will get deleted now that it's discontinued.

Took a while to find, they are under "Music Surround-Sound Components". I can try to post a scan if there's interest.

BTW, anyone seen what The Absolute Sound said in the January issue about the Classic Two? I guess the PDF will get posted here in a couple months:
http://www.avguide.com/the-absolute-sound

Yes, it's in there, though as you know it will get deleted now that it's discontinued.

Took a while to find, they are under "Music Surround-Sound Components". I can try to post a scan if there's interest.

Thanks!

BTW, anyone seen what The Absolute Sound said in the January issue about the Classic Two? I guess the PDF will get posted here in a couple months:
http://www.avguide.com/the-absolute-sound

Dunno, but maybe that got "skewered" for not playing loud? ;)

Has anyway compared their 4's bi-amped without an crossover, to bi-amped with a crossover. I know Jack said the double filtering is good, and I have no doubt it is. I would just like to hear some real world experience in what difference there is.

I recently removed the woofers from each of my C4's, disconnected from internal xover, upgraded the wire, and then connected directly to the lower binding posts. Basically eliminating the internal xover/filter within the 4's concerning the woofer. Now the 10 in drivers are being powered by the a1/x2combo with my tol Boston/Sherwood handling the "monitors"...what a difference in speed, tightness, etc.

Jack has since retracted that though in the case of the Fours:



Irregardless of the crossovers though, the X2 gives you separate totally independent gain controls for both 2 channel and LFE, along with very comprehensive phase and boundary Eq controls.

I am looking for a X2 for my C4, but it's back ordered everywhere. Anybody has or knows where to get it?

Eric

I recently removed the woofers from each of my C4's, disconnected from internal xover, upgraded the wire, and then connected directly to the lower binding posts. Basically eliminating the internal xover/filter within the 4's concerning the woofer. Now the 10 in drivers are being powered by the a1/x2combo with my tol Boston/Sherwood handling the "monitors"...what a difference in speed, tightness, etc.



What frequency did you set the LP filter to on the X-2? Are you running stereo bass (AKA 2 A-1s), or mono (AKA single A-1)? Phase, polarity and border EQ are set to what values?

I assume that you did not use the X-2's HP filter for the "monitor" section of the speakers.

I am looking for a X2 for my C4, but it's back ordered everywhere. Anybody has or knows where to get it?

Eric

Hence my question.:D
I am finding, find an x2 difficult as well. I have found some good deals on 2ch amps locally and really want to get those subs some power!
Guess I'll just do it.

which month's issue of Stereophile has the class a, b, and c recommendations?

April and October is when they publish the list

Thread on the Power5 here if anyone's interested, a couple comments by Jack Hidley
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1006934

P.S. Other Hidley fans might find this interesting if you haven't seen it already:
http://audioconsultingservices.com/
http://audioconsultingservices.com/designs.html

I don't believe that I said the double filtering when biamping the Four would be good. I think I said that it would be better than not biamping the speaker at all, or at least meant to say that. A better case would be to remove the HP and LP filters from the passive crossover completely. MMC has already removed the woofer LP filter.

The ideal setup is to send your X2 to ACS and have us custom modify the unit to have optimal filters for the vented woofer in the Four and optimization of the HP and LP response:)

MMC,

Your next step is to remove L4 and short out C2 or C3 on the crossover. That will remove the HP filter from the 6.5" woofer.

Hey Jack. Where you been? Do you even know what you're talking about? Some experts on another board, with all sorts of audio certification and expertise, have corrected your misinformation and now we know that the center M5 sounds better when placed vertically. So there! See Post 7145 for his comments. http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ThumpinSub/Teatro%20di%20Casa/FrontView.jpg?

;-)

Peter

I saw that. I even wasted an entire ten minutes of my life trying to find out where the original thread is from. No such luck.

BTW, the speaker in the photo is an M6, not an M5, including the one that is turned the wrong way:)

Hey Jack. Where you been? Do you even know what you're talking about? Some experts on another board, with all sorts of audio certification and expertise, have corrected your misinformation and now we know that the center M5 sounds better when placed vertically. So there! See Post 7145 for his comments. http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ThumpinSub/Teatro%20di%20Casa/FrontView.jpg?

;-)

Peter

I'd orient my 3C vertically, but the sides are rounded. :( :p

You only ever orient the 3C vertically when you are listening to Rock an Roll....

You only ever orient the 3C vertically when you are listening to Rock an Roll....

Seriously though, it's nice to have a real (horizontal) center channel speaker as I used to have three SB2s up front. Placement of the center SB2 was always awkward.

BTW, the speaker in the photo is an M6, not an M5, including the one that is turned the wrong way So you're saying it should have been stood on its other end? :)

Peter

I saw that. I even wasted an entire ten minutes of my life trying to find out where the original thread is from. No such luck.

BTW, the speaker in the photo is an M6, not an M5, including the one that is turned the wrong way:)

Hi Jack:

Here you go:

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=57&thread.id=11616&view=by_date_ascending&page=30

Fourth post down by a guy named IrritateGuy.

Yikes. Well, i got my entertainment for the morning. His moniker is rather appropriate though.

John, how is your new demo room going? I haven't seen any new posting...

Now back to topic. It looks like the inventory has been sold as there is no longer the large number of for sale advertisments. Has anyone jumped on the xD @ 50% off?

Demo room is going well. A few developments to post, but nothing major. It's up and running with some Revel Studio2s, PSB Synchronies and NHT T5s.

Randybes did, just waiting to here is reaction since he has DEQX'd HT3s.

Yikes. Well, i got my entertainment for the morning. His moniker is rather appropriate though.


Hey, you guys threw a few rocks at a hornets nest over at that other forum. You guys have been threatened with forum expulsion based on your first postings.

Now you know first hand why I did not provide a link to that site!


PS: IG/COF does have extensive knowledge and experience in audio. He wrote a lot of the pinned threads on that site (under a few names).

Hey, you guys threw a few rocks at a hornets nest over at that other forum. You guys have been threatened with forum expulsion based on your first postings.

Now you know first hand why I did not provide a link to that site!


PS: IG/COF does have extensive knowledge and experience in audio. He wrote a lot of the pinned threads on that site (under a few names).

Not sure what it was in my post that caused the threat. I have asked for clarification.

Not sure what it was in my post that caused the threat. I have asked for clarification.



Well, here is the latest warning that I received. I guess Jack_Hidley is now newly registered, but he is considered to be a "troublemaker" just by registering.



FROM: Yesfan Add User to Friends List · Add User to Ignore List
SENT: 03-23-2008 06:07 PM


Just for your information........
I noticed you posted this comment in Thumpin's small HT thread:

"Jack Hidley may visit this thread if I decide to tell him where to find it!"

Now I notice he and two other members (John Ashman and tonygeno) decide it is their duty to come in here and cause trouble. I can't say for tonygeno, but I'm sure you mentioned this discussion to the other two new members.

I have posted a final open warning. If they do not take my advice and just agree to disagree, you can consider yourself banned right along with them.

I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect Jack Hidley to 'agree to disagree'.

OTOH, I'm not sure anyone in that forum cares to be set right anyway.

How can that guy be such a douche and then *we* get threatened right off the bad? Not that I care about being on yet another forum, but sheesh. Tony was more civil than i was, i just felt like prefacing my comments.

what's the wisdom of using an M6 solution in that tiny room?

I'd be afraid to kick a speaker over while lounging...

then again, owner claims to have picked the speakers based on looks...

M5 would have been better, but at least the M6 is well behaved.

How can that guy be such a douche and then *we* get threatened right off the bad? Not that I care about being on yet another forum, but sheesh. Tony was more civil than i was, i just felt like prefacing my comments.


Looks like I was just banned from that other forum. Who will be next?

Irritate Guy is still looking for a domestic partner. I guess if you decline his offer, his intimate friends will ban you from his personal forum.

Well, i guess they have to keep the general level of knowledge below that of the magazine itself.

Geez, just looking at Yesfan's system, maybe they ban anyone who has a living room bigger than 200 sq ft or anyone with actual speaker stands or cable management or a front projector too. It's like watching Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder bragging about who has the best vision. Kinda reminds me of AVS 5 or 6 years ago a little, but AVS has matured quite a bit. I think.

Well, i guess they have to keep the general level of knowledge below that of the magazine itself.



Maybe they should read the SoundandVision magazine!

http://nhthifi.com/current/press/reviews/evolution_sound.pdf

http://nhthifi.com/current/press/reviews/SVReviewer2002.pdf

Maybe they should read the SoundandVision magazine!

http://nhthifi.com/current/press/reviews/evolution_sound.pdf

http://nhthifi.com/current/press/reviews/SVReviewer2002.pdf

Kinda strange, Bob just did a near total reversal and was really pretty cool about everything. So, you seem to have amassed quite the reputation over there. I don't know how.......... ;)

Kinda strange, Bob just did a near total reversal and was really pretty cool about everything. So, you seem to have amassed quite the reputation over there. I don't know how.......... ;)




That site is filled with a bunch of bed wetters who cry to their mommies when ever their lives are made the least bit uncomfortable. Just agree with "the boys", or else.

Give Altec that link to the S&V testing of the M-5. See what he says about S&V testing (I already know the response).

By the way, Altec and IG know everyone in the audio world (if you take their word for it). I found it curious that they did not know the difference between Red Foreman and Jack Hidley. I posted a link to Jack's NHT bio, and the moderators deleted it. I think someone else reversed the deletion, but that bio may be gone from that thread now.

Hey, no more educational entertainment over at that site with postings made by me.

That site is filled with a bunch of bed wetters who cry to their mommies when ever their lives are made the least bit uncomfortable. Just agree with "the boys", or else.

Give Altec that link to the S&V testing of the M-5. See what he says about S&V testing (I already know the response).

By the way, Altec and IG know everyone in the audio world (if you take their word for it). I found it curious that they did not know the difference between Red Foreman and Jack Hidley. I posted a link to Jack's NHT bio, and the moderators deleted it. I think someone else reversed the deletion, but that bio may be gone from that thread now.

Hey, no more educational entertainment over at that site with postings made by me.John does not believe Nousaine knows anything so it would be hypocritical of him to post that link.

P.S. John, I have yet to set-up the xd but will tonight. I did buy the Power 2 and 5 amps and like them. They are light and run cool and seem to be dead quiet.

John does not believe Nousaine knows anything so it would be hypocritical of him to post that link.

Well, Nousaine knows stuff, just not as much as he thinks. But you're right, pointing to Nousaine's measurements would have been hypocritical as well as adding more disinformation.

P.S. John, I have yet to set-up the xd but will tonight. I did buy the Power 2 and 5 amps and like them. They are light and run cool and seem to be dead quiet.

Cool. How can you wait that long though? :eek:

That site is filled with a bunch of bed wetters who cry to their mommies when ever their lives are made the least bit uncomfortable. Just agree with "the boys", or else.

Give Altec that link to the S&V testing of the M-5. See what he says about S&V testing (I already know the response).

By the way, Altec and IG know everyone in the audio world (if you take their word for it). I found it curious that they did not know the difference between Red Foreman and Jack Hidley. I posted a link to Jack's NHT bio, and the moderators deleted it. I think someone else reversed the deletion, but that bio may be gone from that thread now.

Hey, no more educational entertainment over at that site with postings made by me.

Well, you're probably right. Talk about noobs leading noobs. If Altec is one of the knowledgeable guys and has the nicest theater of everyone, they're all screwed.

Argh. Good god, these people on the S&V forum are insufferable. How did you mange 800 posts in that kind of shiitehole environment?

I guess that I love the smell of napalm in the morning!


Soon the "boys" will be having one of their "get togethers". Note the names of the members of the "boys club".

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=37&thread.id=174576&view=by_date_ascending&page=11


I don't think that you will last there for much longer. Kind of hard to last when you keep "insulting" the members of the "boys club". "The boys" will always gang up on you regardless of who is right (AKA "the boys" are always right) and who is wrong. It is either agree with "the boys" or you are "insulting" them.

Like I said, you should throw those S&V articles (without further comment) about the M-5's back in their S&V forum faces just to observe their reaction. After all, it is the S&V forum.

Nope, got banned over night. Typical forum bully behavior. They tell you that you're 100% wrong or call you 'ignorant' when they haven't checked their facts, then the enabling forum moderator calls you a 'troublemaker' for trying to explain anything. I told Bob all of this too, but I guess it's IrritateGuy's forum. He's got more posts than probably everyone else combined. I think I'll make a complaint to the magazine. Funny that you, in the end, got banned because the moderator gave bad advice and you corrected him. It makes the $20k forum seem like tea party.

Ha ha ha. That must be new all time record for being banned. Well, I assume that TonyG and JackH have been banned also. Nice forum, being banned for just showing up.

Like I said, the moderators over there are "close friends" of the dominatrixes over there. At least I got one verbal blow in at the Rhode Island mobster moderator who said that I should be "whacked".

Anyhow, you should recheck and see if you can post over there. Someone reversed my "whack" sometime today. I was tempted to post a "snide" remark about it, but I think that I am on strike as far as S&V is concerned. No more posting on that forum for a while.

The "boys" are waiting for an entertaining sequal on a new NHT thread. However, what's the use of it? The BS is on the original thread. Locked thread, then an unlocked thread. Bahhhh, they can let Altec and IG debate each other.

I complained and named names to the magazine, so i imagine that's what changed things. Not that i care, the last thing I'm going to do is get back into it with these guys.

I do think it would be nice if Jack went there and gave the engineer's point of view. It might help to clarify some of the technical issues. BTW, I was not banned.

Tony,

I don't really see any point in posting. No one in that thread knows me and they've already felt free to personally insult my work, education, former employer, etc. I don't see anything good coming out of it.

Besides, they already have a speaker expert, who's made it clear that he already knows everything.

Got it Jack. Thanks and be well.

TG

Darn, Tony, I was looking forward to some of your famous barbs, let alone Jack's possible commentary :)

They apparently can't seem to figure out why no one wants to come in an 'debate' the M6, as if there's anything to debate. They think everyone outside their sphere of knowledge is guilty of being a bad engineer or liars or whatever, then want them to voluntarily come in and 'debate' it. Funny guys.

Thumpin' Sub, if you're listening, if you want to actually discuss stuff, stop by *here* and people here will be glad to discuss, educate, inform, whatever, when there aren't uneducated people actually attacking and driving off anyone who knows anything they don't. Same thing for John over there who's about the only one that would fit in over here. Let the loser forum to the losers.

Argh. Good god, these people on the S&V forum are insufferable. How did you mange 800 posts in that kind of shiitehole environment?


The pot/kettle aspect of you posting this, is off the scale.

Hey, if everyone here was like me, it might be insufferable, but fortunately, they're not :)

Besides, many might say that the pot/kettle ratio of your post is equally off the charts :p

I wonder if Thumpin has made a final decision on the orientation of his NHT M-6 when used as a center speaker. That was the only thing that was up for debate. That is the proper orientation of these Evolution speakers.

For some reason that discussion morphed into babble about "marketing", individual poster preferred speaker designs, etc, etc, and so forth. It looks like they are all still ready to rumble over there.

Who is Jack Hidley? What would he possibly know about the subject?

Funny stuff.

Now if you really want to be entertained by an intellectual battle check out one of the NASA/space exploration forums (most especially any threads regarding the Ares rockets). Those guys and gals really know how to rip each other. The upside is at least the majority of them are literate.

Tony,

I don't really see any point in posting. No one in that thread knows me and they've already felt free to personally insult my work, education, former employer, etc. I don't see anything good coming out of it.

Besides, they already have a speaker expert, who's made it clear that he already knows everything.



Good decision. It is just a tempest in a teapot anyhow!

The pot/kettle aspect of you posting this, is off the scale.

Maybe so, but at least here people don't get banned for offering facts contradicting opinions.

I hope you guys can keep stirring up trouble for six more months or so, until there's some NHT news ... if I was reading the interviews right, they have to rebuild the sales team, then rebuild the engineering team, before they can even think about doing anything new.

Gotta give Alimentall the win for this reply:Hey, if everyone here was like me, it might be insufferable, but fortunately, they're not :)

I wonder if Thumpin has made a final decision on the orientation of his NHT M-6 when used as a center speaker. That was the only thing that was up for debate. That is the proper orientation of these Evolution speakers.

i don't know, but i feel bad for the kid.

For some reason that discussion morphed into babble about "marketing", individual poster preferred speaker designs, etc, etc, and so forth. It looks like they are all still ready to rumble over there.

Have you noticed how most of the theater setups by the primaries are things on, oh, buckets or in tiny little bedrooms or apartments with a big screen TV plunked in the middle and wires strewn all over the place?

i mean, hey, i don't think every speaker should be like an M5 or M6. It's a problem solving speaker. My comment was that they sounded consistently *good* in virtually any room. And that is true. Never heard them sound bad. I've heard more expensive speakers sound better and i've heard more expensive speakers sound worse. Now they're trying to act like that is some impossible thing as though I claimed that they are 'the best in any room'. you can't even discuss, let alone debate with people like that. Reminds me of one guy in the $20k forum that i do my best to avoid. The old 'twist someone's words until it sounds wrong' method where you have to constantly say 'but i didn't say that'. Then they wonder why we don't take them seriously or want to go to tea.

I suspect he will at least try to properly orient it. It would be kind of crazy not to, even if he never mentioned it. You know, so as to not insult his friends/mentors. I can understand that. If he still likes it better vertical than horizontal (lots of dirty joke wiggle room there :)) then so be it. Live and let live.

Respectfully, I must admit that I am less than overwhelmed by some of the pictured setups. Mine is quite inferior to most, so I am not being a braggart, but I do tend to expect a little ....more.... from those of you that have the wherewithal and knowledge to be classed as "experts". Just seems a little off to me. Again, proffered with respect.

i don't know, but i feel bad for the kid.

Have you noticed how most of the theater setups by the primaries are things on, oh, buckets or in tiny little bedrooms or apartments with a big screen TV plunked in the middle and wires strewn all over the place?

i mean, hey, i don't think every speaker should be like an M5 or M6. It's a problem solving speaker. My comment was that they sounded consistently *good* in virtually any room. And that is true. Never heard them sound bad. I've heard more expensive speakers sound better and i've heard more expensive speakers sound worse. Now they're trying to act like that is some impossible thing as though I claimed that they are 'the best in any room'. you can't even discuss, let alone debate with people like that. Reminds me of one guy in the $20k forum that i do my best to avoid. The old 'twist someone's words until it sounds wrong' method where you have to constantly say 'but i didn't say that'. Then they wonder why we don't take them seriously or want to go to tea.


Damn John your such a trouble maker, anyways someone told me to stand my T5's upside down, so thats what I did and they sound pretty good!

Guess I'll go back to the Tile forum where I actually know what I'm talking about:)

Make sure you put your tweeters to the outside too ;)

One of the other funny things is that they were saying that the M6 would have crappy dispersion on its side, but now they seem to be harping on its horizontal dispersion (in vertical mode) and not even mentioning how incredibly smooth the horizontal dispersion (in horizontal mode).

Of course, I'm banned, unbanned, now banned again. Or something. Didn't even say anything in between, though I was going to respond to a question directed to me about PSB Synchrony. Yesfan must be at least 40 or 50 to be a Yes fan, so one might expect that his HT system is a little better and more organized than it is, unless it's in his mom's basement, aside from having risen to 'moderator' status. Kind of like "Q: How do you know who the head cook is? A: He also speakers English', so it's like "With all these crappy systems, how do you know who is the moderator?" "The guy that also has the old rock collection and bad hair cut". ;)

Make sure you put your tweeters to the outside too ;)

Ya I think I read that in the hyped up over marketed user manual

Of course, I'm banned, unbanned, now banned again.

Seems the 1st Amendment doesn't apply in their little world. Maybe they're getting in the spirit for the Olympics in China, the land of free speech.

Maybe they're getting in the spirit for the Olympics.

Special Olympics maybe. :p

Seriously, any newbies lurking here who have recently bought or will soon be picking up M5s, M6s, or L5s, do yourself a big favor and do not listen to them.

Hah! i heard IrritateGuy beat up three monks today alone while Yesfan confiscated all the cameras.

My point was that, if you have 4 or 5 people that are wrong and a few that are right, putting aside the rudeness going back and forth, wouldn't you ban the people that are actually incorrect and rude vs the ones that are correct and rude? Personally, the thought of starting off polite didn't seem like it would help anyway, so I figured I'd have some fun.

The ideal setup is to send your X2 to ACS and have us custom modify the unit to have optimal filters for the vented woofer in the Four and optimization of the HP and LP response:)

MMC,

Your next step is to remove L4 and short out C2 or C3 on the crossover. That will remove the HP filter from the 6.5" woofer.

I assume that also applies to the VT-2.4s?

So you're saying it should have been stood on its other end? :)

Peter

:D

Now back to topic. It looks like the inventory has been sold as there is no longer the large number of for sale advertisments. Has anyone jumped on the xD @ 50% off?

It's too bad that there aren't any extra XdWs around for dual sub systems, as adding a second XdW and it's appropriate filters really is a big upgrade over the stock single sub system. :(

Reminds me of one guy in the $20k forum that i do my best to avoid .Come on, John, you know you like confrontation:) You still go up there, I have banned myself. But I do have to smile a little at the S&V review posted on NHT website.:)

I do! But i also put a whole lot of people there on 'ignore'. Keeps me from getting into trouble. Mostly........

I do! But i also put a whole lot of people there on 'ignore'. Keeps me from getting into trouble. Mostly........

Ohhhh come on John get back into the fight...I'm getting tired of watching the Clintons and Barack duke it out.

I'm getting tired of watching the Clintons and Barack duke it out.

I'm not ;)

The Republicans love it, that's for sure.

I'm an Independent, so what do I know?

I'm an independent and I'm enjoying it :)

False hope vs bad experience. Interesting choice. Our governor would have been a much better choice, but he's kinda too fat to get elected as a Democrat in a national election.

I'm an independent and I'm enjoying it :)

False hope vs bad experience. Interesting choice. Our governor would have been a much better choice, but he's kinda too fat to get elected as a Democrat in a national election.

False hope? Not according to your governor.