False hope? Not according to your governor.



The Terminator knows how to handle Judas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRxXiXgGe8g

That did look a lot and sound like Carville with a toupee, now that you mention it ;)

"Come with me if you want all you can eat crawdads!"

It's too bad that there aren't any extra XdWs around for dual sub systems, as adding a second XdW and it's appropriate filters really is a big upgrade over the stock single sub system. :(

I almost bit on the Xds, bargain of the decade or not, but then I thought of all the other things I could do with $3k. Luckily for me I never heard them and I really am content with the C3s.

You know it is a shame that groups can get so territorial that good reason has no voice to be heard.

I'm not even sure what the real debate is all about and I've read all of the S&V thread and sadly the last few pages of this one. Originaly my intent coming here was to offer an olive branch and offer to lift a few bannings.

I see it is beyond that point now. Tony and a few other "survivors" ;) are still welcome to continue providing their opinions.

Best Regards,

Bob R

S&V Forum Moderator.

You know it is a shame that groups can get so territorial that good reason has no voice to be heard.

Reason is pretty common over here, not sure about in your pond.

I'm not even sure what the real debate is all about and I've read all of the S&V thread and sadly the last few pages of this one. Originaly my intent coming here was to offer an olive branch and offer to lift a few bannings.

Too little, too late, don't you think? Kinda like beating your wife, then buying flowers.

Not sure what it was in my post that caused the threat. I have asked for clarification.

Since you asked for some clarification, I'll be happy to explain my actions. I doubt most here care after all the posts I have read so far, but I will give it a try.

Spider_Bill (or is it J Palmer Cass?) has been told by the other mods repeatedly to lay off the jabs and personal attacks towards IG, Altec, and other members who have engaged in a debate with him. This has been going on for the past couple of years that I'm aware of. I have warned him twice myself in private and once on the open boards during this last time. This last instance was just the final straw, that's all, and had nothing to do with being banned for providing accurate information. He was banned for not leaving other members alone plain and simple. IG also got a PM from me to avoid him as it just seemed to dwindle down to a shouting match between the two. He listened, so.how come Spider_Bill couldn't do the same? If he would have, I would have not banned him.

But he didn't and proved my point with his remark about "getting one more in". To me that tells me he's the type of individual who likes to debate until it comes down to him either being wrong and/or is just not going to convince someone that he is right. After that, instead of letting it go, he goes the high school route and starts with the name calling, snide remarks, etc. thinking he's going to get his point across. This always seems to happen when he can not convince someone he is right or that they should share his point of view.

So after he makes a remark about cluing in Jack Hidley about the discussion and then I see you, Jack, and, John Ashmon register right after what do you think went through my mind? After reading your's and John's first posts, I thought you guys were doing nothing more than adding to the downward spiral that Spider already started. That's the way I took it and so I banned him after reading his "getting one more in" reply to Bob R. He apparently doesn't care, so why he's making a big stink about it here is beyond me.


As for John Ashmon (aka Allimental?), he mentioned to Bob R that "Sometimes the only way to hurt a bully is to attract their attention with a smart ass comment, then dismantle them publicly." I see nothing in that statement about NHT's proper orientation as a center channel speaker, so it can't be he was also banned for giving out accurate information.

So Tony, if your posts were legit, then I offer you my sincere apology. I also would like to apologize to Jack Hidley as well. I just want you to see where I was coming from and if I took your remarks the wrong way, then I'm sorry. Those members that were banned, were banned for not letting up on the jabs and keeping it civil. They were NOT banned for giving out accurate information and as far as I'm concerned, will remain banned no matter what has been said in this discussion.

I hope the rest of you understand. If so great, if not then I'm sorry it has to be this way. I don't regret my actions, but I felt it was also necessary for me to explain my side of the story and why I did what I did.

Thank you for your time.

Since you asked for some clarification, I'll be happy to explain my actions. I doubt most here care after all the posts I have read so far, but I will give it a try.

Spider_Bill (or is it J Palmer Cass?) has been told by the other mods repeatedly to lay off the jabs and personal attacks towards IG, Altec, and other members who have engaged in a debate with him. This has been going on for the past couple of years that I'm aware of. I have warned him twice myself in private and once on the open boards during this last time. This last instance was just the final straw, that's all, and had nothing to do with being banned for providing accurate information. He was banned for not leaving other members alone plain and simple. IG also got a PM from me to avoid him as it just seemed to dwindle down to a shouting match between the two. He listened, so.how come Spider_Bill couldn't do the same? If he would have, I would have not banned him.

But he didn't and proved my point with his remark about "getting one more in". To me that tells me he's the type of individual who likes to debate until it comes down to him either being wrong and/or is just not going to convince someone that he is right. After that, instead of letting it go, he goes the high school route and starts with the name calling, snide remarks, etc. thinking he's going to get his point across. This always seems to happen when he can not convince someone he is right or that they should share his point of view.

So after he makes a remark about cluing in Jack Hidley about the discussion and then I see you, Jack, and, John Ashmon register right after what do you think went through my mind? After reading your's and John's first posts, I thought you guys were doing nothing more than adding to the downward spiral that Spider already started. That's the way I took it and so I banned him after reading his "getting one more in" reply to Bob R. He apparently doesn't care, so why he's making a big stink about it here is beyond me.


As for John Ashmon (aka Allimental?), he mentioned to Bob R that "Sometimes the only way to hurt a bully is to attract their attention with a smart ass comment, then dismantle them publicly." I see nothing in that statement about NHT's proper orientation as a center channel speaker, so it can't be he was also banned for giving out accurate information.

So Tony, if your posts were legit, then I offer you my sincere apology. I also would like to apologize to Jack Hidley as well. I just want you to see where I was coming from and if I took your remarks the wrong way, then I'm sorry. Those members that were banned, were banned for not letting up on the jabs and keeping it civil. They were NOT banned for giving out accurate information and as far as I'm concerned, will remain banned no matter what has been said in this discussion.

I hope the rest of you understand. If so great, if not then I'm sorry it has to be this way. I don't regret my actions, but I felt it was also necessary for me to explain my side of the story and why I did what I did.

Thank you for your time.

I've already pm'd Bob R and we're cool.

I hope the rest of you understand. If so great, if not then I'm sorry it has to be this way. I don't regret my actions, but I felt it was also necessary for me to explain my side of the story and why I did what I did.

All of this makes sense *except* that no one else was banned. When you ban Irritate Guy and Altec and a few others for some ridiculously rude behavior, then it makes sense. Not to mention your own lack of moderation.

Keep in mind the idea of calling a bully out and dismantling him usually only applies when the moderators are completely inactive or looking the other way out of bias, which was clearly the case in this instance.

All of this makes sense *except* that no one else was banned. When you ban Irritate Guy and Altec and a few others for some ridiculously rude behavior, then it makes sense. Not to mention your own lack of moderation.

I guess you missed the part about the warnings. I usually warn members first before banning them. IG got a warning just like you and Spidey did, but he was the only one that listened.

Oh and thanks, yet again, for proving my point about the continuing jabs you insist on putting in your replies.

You know it is a shame that groups can get so territorial that good reason has no voice to be heard.

I'm not even sure what the real debate is all about and I've read all of the S&V thread and sadly the last few pages of this one. Originaly my intent coming here was to offer an olive branch and offer to lift a few bannings.

I see it is beyond that point now. Tony and a few other "survivors" ;) are still welcome to continue providing their opinions.

Best Regards,

Bob R

S&V Forum Moderator.


Maybe if you read all the postings you would have a valid point. Your partner in crime Yesfan started the whole issue with his recommendation on NHT M-6 speaker orientation.


Posting 1.


Spider_Bill
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 798
Registered: 02-11-2005


Message 286 of 476

Viewed 179 times

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Yesfan wrote:


As for the center stand, I would just do them the same except make the top/bottom plates wider and in proportion to the center. The center speaker looks identical to your fronts, and if they are, I would be tempted to stand it up vertically and have the front three identical provided the center speaker doesn't get in the way of your screen.



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That is a big no no. The center speaker is identical to the L and R, but it is mandatory for it to be mounted horizontally for use in a center location.


______________________________________



Response to posting 1 by your buddy IG. IG's very uniniformed and misleading answer.

IrritateGuy
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 24208
Registered: 06-03-2004



Message 289 of 476

Viewed 156 times


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Spider_Bill wrote:

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Yesfan wrote:

As for the center stand, I would just do them the same except make the top/bottom plates wider and in proportion to the center. The center speaker looks identical to your fronts, and if they are, I would be tempted to stand it up vertically and have the front three identical provided the center speaker doesn't get in the way of your screen.

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That is a big no no. The center speaker is identical to the L and R, but it is mandatory for it to be mounted horizontally for use in a center location.

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That advice is 100% incorrect in terms of performance. Horizontally arranged midrange drivers (an MTM speaker laying on its side) causes serious lobing issues which have been discussed at great length with theory AND real world measurements on this forum for years. Those lobing issues will create a dispersion pattern that causes the overall sound of the center speaker to be significantly different from the left & right speakers and the blending of the front soundfield will be degraded when compared to vertically orienting the center speaker.

In the exact same situation as Thumpin', I would go out of my way to stand up the center speaker, which means building a shorter stand for the center speaker and slightly angling it upwards. That would provide the most seamless blending of the three front speakers.



_________________________



Followed up by this posting by IG:


IrritateGuy
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 24208
Registered: 06-03-2004



Message 312 of 476

Viewed 272 times


You know, it's really funny.

I've dealt with these speakers in person in three different HTs. I actually used my measurement gear in two of them. the absolute best performance, both measured (objective) and heard (subjective), was with the center placed vertically. What's also funny is that I could turn the center vertically and it still worked, and you keep saying it "cannot" be used that way.



________________________________



Then IG follows up with this rationalization after he realizes that the M-6's are not MTM speakers, that he measured his "friends" speakers wrong, his hearing is poor, and also that he does not have a valid technical point to stand on. He shifts the recommendation from all vertical to all horizontal.


IrritateGuy
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 24208
Registered: 06-03-2004



Message 421 of 476

Viewed 210 times


Now, in summary, you have managed to get us all to see the serious flaws in these speakers, something I was attempting to avoid so as to prevent our good friend from being discouraged.

They are designed to be mounted horizontally, and only horizontally, at all times. They off axis performance, when used vertically, is completely unacceptable, and thus are not recommended for that use.

I am glad you are such a great friend to this forum.




_____________________________

I guess you missed the part about the warnings. I usually warn members first before banning them. IG got a warning just like you and Spidey did, but he was the only one that listened.

You call that listening? Nice set of different standards.

Oh and thanks, yet again, for proving my point about the continuing jabs you insist on putting in your replies.

Thanks for showing how you like to be part the show rather than a moderator and let your own ego get in the way of your job. :D

Keep in mind I made *one* shot. Then I got hammered and largely kept my cool while you sat around and did nothing, enduring all kinds of insults from those that I didn't even mention. If the police don't do anything, don't be surprised if people form vigilante squads.

Last time I checked, I wasn't a moderator here. ;)

Anyways have fun pal, I'm through wasting my time with you so rest assured I will avoid and ignore you from now on.

But if it makes you sleep better at night, go ahead and get the last word in. :D

The irony here is Yesfan started the entire matter with his uninformed recommendation to use the M-6 as a center speaker in a vertical orientation. IG then follows up with his uninformed but highly recommended comments. Then the "gang" (as IG like to call them) follows up with more stupidity. The S&V forum moderators are part of "my gang"!



IrritateGuy
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 24208
Registered: 06-03-2004



Message 2 of 11

Viewed 449 times


I don't know about the others, but I travel for my job all the time and started asking to meet up with fellow forum members when in other towns. This has proven very successful, and I know consider the people I've met here as my "gang" and group of closest friends.

The irony here is Yesfan started the entire matter with his uninformed recommendation to use the M-6 as a center speaker in a vertical orientation. IG then follows up with his uninformed but highly recommended comments. Then the "gang" (as IG like to call them) follows up with more stupidity.

Yes, I said that. So what's the big deal? If I remember correctly, it is Thumpin's speakers and not mine. If he wanted to hang them diagonally from the wall, then that would be fine by me.

I told him I would be tempted to do that if it were me. If he liked it better, great. If he thought it sounded better horizontally, then that's great too. I don't think I would have went of on a tangent on him leaving it in the horizontal position as you seem to try to point out.

You make it sound like all this was some sort of "conspiracy" that was orchestrated by me, which I don't get.

Last time I checked, I wasn't a moderator here. ;)

not sure he's a moderator anywhere!

You make it sound like all this was some sort of "conspiracy" that was orchestrated by me, which I don't get.

More a lack of inaction and/or inappropriate action, as in taking the wrong side.

Yes, I said that. So what's the big deal? If I remember correctly, it is Thumpin's speakers and not mine. If he wanted to hang them diagonally from the wall, then that would be fine by me.

I told him I would be tempted to do that if it were me. If he liked it better, great. If he thought it sounded better horizontally, then that's great too. I don't think I would have went of on a tangent on him leaving it in the horizontal position as you seem to try to point out.

You make it sound like all this was some sort of "conspiracy" that was orchestrated by me, which I don't get.




You are just another one of the members of "my gang". Change your alias to Yesman!


Here is the part that you do not get. Just who ended the "on topic" discussion on that thread? You are one of the "powers that be" (AKA gang members) as per the words of the original poster of that thread:



ThumpinSub
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 1616
Registered: 01-22-2007



Message 1 of 45

Viewed 365 times


...as continued from ThumpinSub's Extra Small HT thread in the DIY section.

I've been enjoying the technical portion of the debate that's been going on in my thread and I'm really hoping it hasn't ended. I didn't mind at all that it was occurring in my thread as I genuinely felt it was relative to the thread's topic. Regardless, the powers at be have been insisting this debate move to its own thread. Well, here it is. And I also hope the little speedbump of a temporarily locked thread doesn't prohibit this discussion from going further.

So, Gentlemen, as if nothing happened, carry on.

More a lack of inaction and/or inappropriate action, as in taking the wrong side.



In addition to it being a conflict of interest (AKA the fox guarding the chicken coop)!

So after he makes a remark about cluing in Jack Hidley about the discussion and then I see you, Jack, and, John Ashmon register right after what do you think went through my mind? After reading your's and John's first posts, I thought you guys were doing nothing more than adding to the downward spiral that Spider already started. That's the way I took it and so I banned him after reading his "getting one more in" reply to Bob R. He apparently doesn't care, so why he's making a big stink about it here is beyond me.





S & V moderators are just a bunch of self dealing "gang members".

Yesman did not see any need for Jack Hidley to post even though he is an expert in his field.

Now S & V "Moderator" Barney is demanding "credentials" from posters. Yet he provides no credentials for the members of "my gang".


anun4
Visitor
Posts: 7
Registered: 03-26-2008



Message 43 of 52

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Altec wrote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pierrebnh wrote:
Then Altec's post should be edited as well as inflammatory.



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Just stating fact. I've been designing audio gear for about 30 years. I think that makes me as qualified as anybody else with similar credentials. I've seen just about every marketing trick in the book, and the marketing of these speakers is just another example of smoke and mirrors. They may be fine sounding speakers, but they seem to not be benefiting at all from their so called 'feature', and as such, are harder than typical to set up.

I understand the employees of NHT must tow the corporate line, but your sales pitch is been heard and noted. I'm sure if somebody gets a wild hair guy to buy these speakers, they will.



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Atec, mind you I am in the nuetral here, from reading post in the AVS forum everyone there would agree that NHT marketing skills pretty much sucked anyway..the Evolution line is discontinued so they are no longer marketed so I conclude that this is a muted point.

A far as I know there are no NHT employees at AV forums so whom are you refering to?

Getting back to the subject of the M5/M6 speakers line I think Markr deserves an answer to his question on giving objective material to back up your 30 years of experience.

Thank you

03-26-2008 05:45 PM



________________________________________


Barney
Moderator
Posts: 15837
Registered: 07-26-2002



Message 45 of 49

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anun4 wrote:




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Altec wrote:

Getting back to the subject of the M5/M6 speakers line I think Markr deserves an answer to his question on giving objective material to back up your 30 years of experience.

Thank you



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are wrong my friend..........I would think that Mark should give his experience here on this forum. Mark is a new member here & the forum has no idea who he is. Most of us "old timers" know who Altec is.............even the old Stereo Review knows who he is...


A Wild Hair Guy:

You are just another one of the members of "my gang". Change your alias to Yesman!


Here is the part that you do not get. Just who ended the "on topic" discussion on that thread? You are one of the "powers that be" (AKA gang members) as per the words of the original poster of that thread:



ThumpinSub
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 1616
Registered: 01-22-2007



Message 1 of 45

Viewed 365 times


...as continued from ThumpinSub's Extra Small HT thread in the DIY section.

I've been enjoying the technical portion of the debate that's been going on in my thread and I'm really hoping it hasn't ended. I didn't mind at all that it was occurring in my thread as I genuinely felt it was relative to the thread's topic. Regardless, the powers at be have been insisting this debate move to its own thread. Well, here it is. And I also hope the little speedbump of a temporarily locked thread doesn't prohibit this discussion from going further.

So, Gentlemen, as if nothing happened, carry on.

I closed it, then reopened it when Thumpin started another topic. Funy thing was, the original poster was the only one that listened to that request.

Btw....check here for a moment if you don't mind.

link (http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=57&thread.id=11616&view=by_date_ascending&page=17)


That's where Thumpin requested me to remove posts 318-322. I think all of those were your posts and all I did was edit one of your posts.

I think you have a weak leg to stand on as all you and John are doing now is just slinging more mud at me. You guys don't really care about this (the NHT center speaker) issue. It's just more or less getting back at me for getting banned from over there. Oh well, if it really helps you guys sleep better at night, then have at it.

I have nothing more to say to you on this issue. Just like with John, I'll just avoid and ignore you as your goal in all this is just to antagonize me in hopes I will retaliate and get banned.

Good luck gentlemen. :)

IrritateGuy:

I don't know about the others, but I travel for my job all the time and started asking to meet up with fellow forum members when in other towns. This has proven very successful, and I know consider the people I've met here as my "gang" and group of closest friends.

Well, if you think about it, his closest friends are people he met on a forum and he has the time to put up 25K posts, so do the math ;)

No offense, but as much as I enjoy kicking it around with you guys, you're not really my closest friends, though I do hope to hang with MSV before, during or after the Rush concert.

I think once the moderators get buddy buddy with people who's arrogance well exceeds their knowledge, it's a recipe for disaster. I saw Yesfan's 'warning' and it was like 'please be nicer - PS, I love you' . Fortunately, getting banned from S&V forums is like getting banned from Taco Bell :)

Well, hopefully that is over. It would suck to have two threads ruined.

I closed it, then reopened it when Thumpin started another topic. Funy thing was, the original poster was the only one that listened to that request.

Btw....check here for a moment if you don't mind.

link (http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=57&thread.id=11616&view=by_date_ascending&page=17)


That's where Thumpin requested me to remove posts 318-322. I think all of those were your posts and all I did was edit one of your posts.

I think you have a weak leg to stand on as all you and John are doing now is just slinging more mud at me. You guys don't really care about this (the NHT center speaker) issue. It's just more or less getting back at me for getting banned from over there. Oh well, if it really helps you guys sleep better at night, then have at it.

I have nothing more to say to you on this issue. Just like with John, I'll just avoid and ignore you as your goal in all this is just to antagonize me in hopes I will retaliate and get banned.

Good luck gentlemen. :)




I sent the club a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.

Did anyone from NHT or who has posted on this thread ever make this claim? One of the S & V "moderators" made the claim that someone made the claim (AKA same gang methods that they always use).



IrritateGuy
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 24211
Registered: 06-03-2004



Message 53 of 53

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I agree with Altec. I am also an expert. I used to grow speakers in my back yard and won "best of show" three years in a row at the Indiana state fair.

At what frequencies is the off axis output "controlled" by this speaker's design enough to warrant the statement that no room acoustics treatments are needed for early reflections?


03-26-2008 07:52 PM

The only S & V person who owns those speakers (AKA the original poster) made the following statement. Now, the S & V gang members are going to teach the outsiders as well as Thumpin "who the boss is". The NHT M-6's can not be good speakers because they say so. What a sad state of affairs!


ThumpinSub
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 1616
Registered: 01-22-2007



Message 6 of 53

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JohnAshman wrote:


Tony posted the measurements by stereophile. I have also seen NHT's internal measurements. They back up my statements quite well. No offense, but I don't feel the need to "prove" the M5/M6's dispersion as it is well-documented, look it up if you like. Unless you can "prove" to me that I am wrong. Measure for yourself if you like.

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As I mentioned in reply to DIYer's post, I didn't buy these speakers for any of their technological abilities that have been stated. And just to be clear, I didn't buy them because they were pretty either although I freely admit their aesthetics played a part. But having had the opportunity to live with these speakers for the last year or so, I can confidently say, I'm not left wanting for anything.

First and foremost, I genuinely like the way the sound. If the Mackies were ruler flat, then I guess I prefer a less accurate sound. Whether it's attributed to some sort of treble boost or an 18kHz distortion that some have said these speakers produce or something else entirely, I like 'em! They're clear and crisp but not harsh. They take all the power I can feed them and laugh and say "is that all you got?". I keep turning up the volume and they keep sounding better and better. If I liked them at MV-10dB, I loved them at MV-0dB, I'm absolutely giddy at MV+5dB and utterly speechless at MV+10dB. They're bulletproof!

Secondly, I'm most interested to see how this discussion pans out in terms of their less-significant requirement for room treatment. I've felt let down recently because I didn't think the treatment was a night and day difference as many around this forum would have you believe. Could it be because these speakers are indeed designed to counter room effects? I don't know. It'll take smarter people than I to accurately address that. But I'm looking forward to it being addressed.

03-25-2008 02:50 PM

Hi, how are you all doing?

i have been lurking this thread for ages...and i have 3 M6 across the front and a pair of NHT HDP-2.

Should i be reversing the polarity for the HDP-2?

Hi, how are you all doing?

i have been lurking this thread for ages...and i have 3 M6 across the front and a pair of NHT HDP-2.

Should i be reversing the polarity for the HDP-2?

No, i don't think so. Congrats! As long as you don't put your center M6 vertically on a bucket...... ;)

Did anyone from NHT or who has posted on this thread ever make this claim?

Nope. But now they can claim anything since there's no one left to rebut it.

No, i don't think so. Congrats! As long as you don't put your center M6 vertically on a bucket...... ;)


haha...even if it was suppose to be a correct stance....i would never do it...it just won't match the room decor, lol


anyways...thanks for the info. I always thought that the HDP-2 would need a reverse polarity as i remember that the SuperOne and SuperZero needed to be reversed when used with the Evo series. Guess i thought wrong, lol


BTW...those HDP-2 are so hard to find! took me a while to get my hands on one in piana black!

Nope. But now they can claim anything since there's no one left to rebut it.



Just some poster named markr, tony, and a few others. S & V "Monitor" Barney stood up for "my gang" and edited mark's posting. Kind of strange that another so called "monitor" thinks he is only there to protect one of his own.

The amount of hubrus that these jokers have is beyond the pale. "In this thread and the one which spawned it, I have given the technical reasons for my stand several times. I will not spend my time re-typing it here." Yup, he knows everything about a speaker by the looks of one FR chart that he did not even generate (AKA unknown methods).

I like the "I would not recommend" the speaker part. He based that recommendation after looking at one chart? At least if he measured the speaker himself and he listened to the speaker himself, then that opinion could be a valid opinion to certain segments of the audio market (fringe groups). What a dumbass!

Also, this is a good one. "Look, nobody thinks that you guys are going to suddenly say "hey, Altec, IG/COF and the guys at S&V are right!!!!" You have your unshakable opinions which I do not share." Well, we have Altec's opinion that is based on hubrus, and IG's opinion that is so convoluted that it is not worth anything. Not sure who the unknown "guys" at S&V are. Maybe they are members of "my gang"?

Could be these S & V guys:

http://nhthifi.com/current/press/reviews/evolution_sound.pdf

Could be this S & V Reviewers choice award

http://nhthifi.com/current/press/reviews/SVReviewer2002.pdf





Altec
Sound & Visionary
Posts: 1793
Registered: 02-04-2005



Message 59 of 59

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markr wrote:

^^^ In the "argument" against you, there has been plenty of objective material linked to back it up, including S&V's own review and TN's measurements (and subsequent comments) of these speakers. And you have produced exactly squat to counter it. I'll ask you one more time, do you have anything at all objective other than your own self proclaimed "all knowing speaker expert guru"..EDIT: I will let this statement stay & ask that you prove to the forum you are an "all knowing speaker expert guru, Mark ,until then, you have something to prove my friend opinion and mistaken assumption of who are NHT employees to support your claims?


Message Edited by markr on 03-26-2008 05:18 PM

Message Edited by markr on 03-26-2008 05:23 PM

Message Edited by Barney on 03-26-2008 06:20 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In this thread and the one which spawned it, I have given the technical reasons for my stand several times. I will not spend my time re-typing it here. Scan the threads if you're interested (somehow I don't think you are).

Look, nobody thinks that you guys are going to suddenly say "hey, Altec, IG/COF and the guys at S&V are right!!!!" You have your unshakable opinions which I do not share. I will always recommend speakers which I believe have the best chance of being compatible with a particular listener's needs. The NHT speaker seems to be more trouble than it's worth, and I would not recommend it.

Over and out.




Soundhound's Images

"Considering Altec's system is most likely the absolute best of all our systems, it reallly does show great ignorance to attempt to claim it is anything less than stellar. I have never heard it myself, but my inner self knows that this is a fact. Take it to the bank (or else)!" - IrritateGuy



__________________________________________



Altec quote: "The NHT speaker seems to be more trouble than it is worth."

Just a few notes about something being "more trouble than it is worth". Orient the NHT speakers, use the NHT active crossover with the NHT subwoofer, and you do have a bit of work to do.



For a comparison, what is the alternative that the S & V "experts" recommend? Look at the sample S & V forum active crossover setup needed to provide "pure silky smooth high quality sound". Not more trouble than it is worth according to the noted S & V "experts" Altec and IG.

I would love to have a S & V review of this "expert" setup. I can see the entire S & V review now. "I don't have a clue what to do with all these parts, so I am just going to shitcan the entire system. Don't walk, run away from this system. Highly dissed!"


.

haha...even if it was suppose to be a correct stance....i would never do it...it just won't match the room decor, lol


anyways...thanks for the info. I always thought that the HDP-2 would need a reverse polarity as i remember that the SuperOne and SuperZero needed to be reversed when used with the Evo series. Guess i thought wrong, lol


BTW...those HDP-2 are so hard to find! took me a while to get my hands on one in piana black!




I picked up some L-5's for surround use last month. Listenup.com has them for 66% off retail. A great deal!

Thumpin' Sub, if you're listening, if you want to actually discuss stuff, stop by *here* and people here will be glad to discuss, educate, inform, whatever, when there aren't uneducated people actually attacking and driving off anyone who knows anything they don't.

Thank you for the invitation. I cheerfully accept.

Thank you for the invitation. I cheerfully accept.

Cool, just for that, we'll stop busting your hump for the bucket stand :)

Bienvenidos!

I wonder if Thumpin has made a final decision on the orientation of his NHT M-6 when used as a center speaker.

I did, as mentioned in post #411 of the Extra Small HT thread. "Since I can't find any pros or any cons with one configuartion over the other, I think I'm going to keep it horizontal. If for no other reason than the warm fuzzies I get from knowing the three tweeters are perfectly aligned on the same plane."

*EDIT* It was actually 3 posts earlier (#408) where I stated that I returned the center speaker to a horizontal position and why.

haha...even if it was suppose to be a correct stance....i would never do it...it just won't match the room decor, lol


anyways...thanks for the info. I always thought that the HDP-2 would need a reverse polarity as i remember that the SuperOne and SuperZero needed to be reversed when used with the Evo series. Guess i thought wrong, lol!

Well, not totally sure. Jack is the best one to answer, but i don't think it's necessary. Besides, dipole speakers operate so fundamentally different that phase is kind of a non-issue. Normally i'd say use L5s, how do you have these set up? What's your room like?

I did, as mentioned in post #411 of the Extra Small HT thread. "Since I can't find any pros or any cons with one configuartion over the other, I think I'm going to keep it horizontal. If for no other reason than the warm fuzzies I get from knowing the three tweeters are perfectly aligned on the same plane."



I forgot to ask, what do you use for surround speakers?

Cool, just for that, we'll stop busting your hump for the bucket stand :)

Bienvenidos!

As well you should as the bucket was nothing more than a temporary, makeshift stand that served its trial purpose very well. You can't possibly expect me to build or buy an appropriate 15" stand to accomodate that trial period, could you?

As well you should as the bucket was nothing more than a temporary, makeshift stand that served its trial purpose very well. You can't possibly expect me to build or buy an appropriate 15" stand to accomodate that trial period, could you?

Goodness no, that showed a healthy skepticism. Healthy, as opposed to unending ;)

Have you noticed how most of the theater setups by the primaries are things on, oh, buckets or in tiny little bedrooms or apartments with a big screen TV plunked in the middle and wires strewn all over the place?


Should I apologize for experimenting as to achieve the best possible sound, posting work-in-progress pictures while experimenting and/or not having a two-thousand square foot theater and seating for 20? Because four of the five conditions you cited either directly apply or once applied to my project and I feel as though my efforts are being dissed.

Talk about unending. Looks like the S & V moderator decided to play fair (for the moment). Pretty easy to that after you have "whacked" (Bob_R's words) most of the players. I had assumed that they would delete that thread, so I posted the above quotes just for a record.



Bob_R
Moderator
Posts: 8456
Registered: 12-27-2001



Message 64 of 64

Viewed 4 times


We've decided to let this thread go on, and on, and on and strangle on its own venom.

I will say that neither side has shown their best side.

Sad, but true.





Bob



S&V Boberator

Should I apologize for experimenting as to achieve the best possible sound, posting work-in-progress pictures while experimenting and/or not having a two-thousand square foot theater and seating for 20? Because four of the five conditions you cited either directly apply or once applied to my project and I feel as though my efforts are being dissed.

Well, aside from the bucket, I was really talking about everyone else who was telling you to set up your speaker badly. Seriously, I apologize for any busting of your hump based solely on those surrounding you. Did you get the NHT M6 owners kit that goes with your speakers? Has a couple of screwdrivers, a manual, nut driver, etc.

Well, aside from the bucket, I was really talking about everyone else who was telling you to set up your speaker badly. Seriously, I apologize for any busting of your hump based solely on those surrounding you. Did you get the NHT M6 owners kit that goes with your speakers? Has a couple of screwdrivers, a manual, nut driver, etc.

No. I would've expected those things with the B6 module or pedestal. But I am surprised they didn't come with the cotton gloves that they were supposed to.

Should I apologize for experimenting as to achieve the best possible sound, posting work-in-progress pictures while experimenting and/or not having a two-thousand square foot theater and seating for 20? Because four of the five conditions you cited either directly apply or once applied to my project and I feel as though my efforts are being dissed.



You owe Altec and IG/COF an apology for buying those dreadful speakers in the first place.:D To tell you the truth, I though those guys were yanking your chain about your using the M-6 in a vertical manner at the center speaker location.

Bob_R -

We've decided to let this thread go on, and on, and on and strangle on its own venom.

I will say that neither side has shown their best side.

Sad, but true.

I think he is doing it simply to poke fun at those he banned, nothing more. Doesn't bother me as it just shows how screwed up that forum is.

You owe Altec and IG/COF an apology for buying those dreadful speakers in the first place. To tell you the truth, I though those guys were yanking your chain about your using the M-6 in a vertical manner at the center speaker location.

Easy! Don't act like Altec or IG, that's the whole point.

No. I would've expected those things with the B6 module or pedestal. But I am surprised they didn't come with the cotton gloves that they were supposed to.

The gloves are actually in the kit. If you need one, call NHT and they'll send you one, or, if you want to give me your address, I will, as I have some extras. The main thing is the owners manual, the rest largely pertains to the subs, but it's cool to have. Especially the bottle opener ;)

Easy! Don't act like Altec or IG, that's the whole point.


Sarcasm is good!

The gloves are actually in the kit. If you need one, call NHT and they'll send you one, or, if you want to give me your address, I will, as I have some extras. The main thing is the owners manual, the rest largely pertains to the subs, but it's cool to have. Especially the bottle opener ;)

You know, I was a little miffed after having spent about $1500 on those three speakers and not getting the gloves. The manual didn't bother me as much because I've read through and saved the .pdf version. But this bottle opener thing...:mad:

The gloves are actually in the kit. If you need one, call NHT and they'll send you one, or, if you want to give me your address, I will, as I have some extras. The main thing is the owners manual, the rest largely pertains to the subs, but it's cool to have. Especially the bottle opener ;)

I was wondering what those gloves where for...I used mine for gardening and well ..I used the bottle opener for opening bottles.

John,

Don't start a bad precedent by calling it a bottle opener. Its official name is The Shank.

You know, I was a little miffed after having spent about $1500 on those three speakers and not getting the gloves. The manual didn't bother me as much because I've read through and saved the .pdf version. But this bottle opener thing...:mad:

Well, like I said, NHT or I can get you one, just say the word. It's not normal to give someone a kit with just the M5s or M6s, but I generally do.

John,

Don't start a bad precedent by calling it a bottle opener. Its official name is The Shank.

Hah! Now there's a factoid I didn't know :)

"hey baby, could ya shank me a beer?"

The tool was originally supposed to have a very short #2 philips screwdriver bit welded onto the bottle opener end. That way the user could assemble an entire T5/T6 system with just one tool. The Shank name was a no brainer to any sick minded (read NHT employee) who held it in their hand for more than 10 seconds. Unfortunately it just didn't make a good enough screwdriver to work this way.

Well, I think that I am done ranking out the S & V members. Start of a new day coming up.

Nothing new to talk about as far as NHT is concerned.

To tell you the truth, I though those guys were yanking your chain about your using the M-6 in a vertical manner at the center speaker location.


It's extremely obvious that several people have used only portions of threads and snipets of posts to base an assumption on or use them as fodder, but there's something that hasn't been quoted, ridiculed or even commented on here and I find that interesting. And that is my comment about the difference in sound using test tones when comparing the vertical and horizontal orientations. So please humor me while I bring it up here and now.

In my very first forray into home theater, my front stage consisted of a pair of Infinity SM12's as mains and the matching SM-Video for a center. While using my receiver's test tones to calibrate, I couldn't help but notice that the pink noise coming from my center channel speaker sounded different. It was veiled and muffled. At the time, I thought nothing of it.

As time went on and I upgraded speaker system after speaker system, the result was always the same and I was powerless to do anything about. EQ didn't help and neither did increasing or decreasing the channel level. I was left thinking the only way to correct this was to have 3 identical - not voice matched but IDENTICAL - speakers up front. Enter the NHT M6s. I can't tell you how disappointed and frustrated I was to learn that they did the same thing. Even though the boundary switch eliminated some of the disparity, it didn't cure it completely.

Now I'm thinking that it must be receiver causing this. After buying a pair of Parasound Halo A23's, surely identical amps driving identical speakers will sound identical, right? WRONG! I give up.

A year later I decided to do this room upstairs. It rejuvinates hope that the new layout and surroundings will somehow help but they don't. Even with the new Pre/Pro, the vertical mains sound identical but the horizontal center just sounds different. So when I'm given the suggestion of trying it vertically, I figure I've got nothing to lose by trying it so I did. And right after orientating it vertically, I thought a recalibration was a good idea.

The instant the test tone hit the center channel, it was as if I just got hit in the head with a hammer. There was no difference in sound. It was an identical sound just coming from a different location. I must have cycled between the front three speakers a dozen times trying to hear a difference and I couldn't. I even walked around the room thinking some other location may show signs of a difference. Nope. It was identical across the board.

Now I ask you, with the importance of the front three speakers sounding as much alike as possible, how it wrong to achieve that sonic symmetry even if it's through a rather unorthodox method?

Well, not totally sure. Jack is the best one to answer, but i don't think it's necessary. Besides, dipole speakers operate so fundamentally different that phase is kind of a non-issue. Normally i'd say use L5s, how do you have these set up? What's your room like?

Its in a perfectly shaped 10x18 room with them 3 feet above ear level. I am use to direct radiating..and the sound is very very weird. One thing for sure.....i have 5 seats in there.....3 in front, 2 in the back.....it seems though every seat is a sweet spot except my sweetspot :confused:?

one more question, for the M6....since they are so close to the side walls, should they be set to Boundary Position 1?

I used to have them in a 16x14 room with them on the wide side...and they gave a great soundstage, and great depth. But recently i had to move them to a smaller room due to some furniture rearrangement and new system.

actually i think i have to switch the polarity as the NHT HDP-2 has a set right and left speaker and their phase polarity is suppose to work in conjunction with the Super series.

The manual also advice not to reverse the polarity as the 6 1/2" woofers firing in the wall will be out of phase. So i have to physically switch the right and left.

However, at the same time if the woofers will be out of phase when reverse polarity with the Super series, wouldn't it be in phase with the Evo series?

LOL...this is quite confusing!

The instant the test tone hit the center channel, it was as if I just got hit in the head with a hammer. There was no difference in sound. It was an identical sound just coming from a different location. I must have cycled between the front three speakers a dozen times trying to hear a difference and I couldn't. I even walked around the room thinking some other location may show signs of a difference. Nope. It was identical across the board.

Now I ask you, with the importance of the front three speakers sounding as much alike as possible, how it wrong to achieve that sonic symmetry even if it's through a rather unorthodox method?



That could be caused by the limits of your calibration noise. The green curve in the file below is the FR of my receiver's main speaker calibration noise. I have another set of identical speakers, and my test noise sounds a bit different at different speaker positions.

Differences in the sound of the calibration signal could also be caused by the difference in speaker orientation. However, who listens to test noise?

It could be all of the above. To tell you the truth, I prefer the sound of the M-5 speakers a bit more when they are used in a horizontal manner. Depending on how I finish the front of my new room, I may end up with three horizontal mounts up front.

Note that when I use wide band pink noise from REW, I can hear the HF sound drop off after I pass the midrange side of the M-5 when the vertical orientation is used. I can also measure the change in FR with REW and TrueRTA.

You should have asked Jack Hidley a few questions while he was here. He is very professional and he will not bite you.


.

The tool was originally supposed to have a very short #2 philips screwdriver bit welded onto the bottle opener end. That way the user could assemble an entire T5/T6 system with just one tool. The Shank name was a no brainer to any sick minded (read NHT employee) who held it in their hand for more than 10 seconds. Unfortunately it just didn't make a good enough screwdriver to work this way.

see, this is what I'm talking about right here...how could those S&V forum people possibly want to miss out on such behind-the-scenes highly technical insight? ;)

Just bustin' chops, hehe

The instant the test tone hit the center channel, it was as if I just got hit in the head with a hammer. There was no difference in sound. It was an identical sound just coming from a different location. I must have cycled between the front three speakers a dozen times trying to hear a difference and I couldn't. I even walked around the room thinking some other location may show signs of a difference. Nope. It was identical across the board.

Interesting observation. I also am a fan of identical speakers all around if possible, which is why I too was attracted by the Evos. I have owned the M5s, the M6s, and now the M5s again. I couldn't pass up the deal at ListenUp and I also use L5s in the back in a 7 channel setup.

In my current setup, using the 5s, the timbre match using pink noise is very, very close as it pans across the front. Is it perfect? I can't say it's perfect, but given the fact that the sound is arriving at my ears slightly differently with the center than the other left or right speakers (since the sound waves arrive at my right and left ears exactly at the same time and my hearing differs in my two ears), I'd say it's as spot on as can be achieved. Now I don't recall if the M6 had the same panning consistency as it's been a while since I've heard them.

The instant the test tone hit the center channel, it was as if I just got hit in the head with a hammer. There was no difference in sound. It was an identical sound just coming from a different location. I must have cycled between the front three speakers a dozen times trying to hear a difference and I couldn't. I even walked around the room thinking some other location may show signs of a difference. Nope. It was identical across the board.

Now I ask you, with the importance of the front three speakers sounding as much alike as possible, how it wrong to achieve that sonic symmetry even if it's through a rather unorthodox method?

not sure. Mine sounds fine on its side. In fact, it's more likely to give you the same sound on its side than vertical, except in one position on the couch and that position would be to the right or left, unless you also angled the speaker.

Its in a perfectly shaped 10x18 room with them 3 feet above ear level. I am use to direct radiating..and the sound is very very weird. One thing for sure.....i have 5 seats in there.....3 in front, 2 in the back.....it seems though every seat is a sweet spot except my sweetspot :confused:?

I assume they are to the sides of your 3 front seat?

one more question, for the M6....since they are so close to the side walls, should they be set to Boundary Position 1?

Maybe. Depends on the sound. I'd try it though just to see.

actually i think i have to switch the polarity as the NHT HDP-2 has a set right and left speaker and their phase polarity is suppose to work in conjunction with the Super series.

The manual also advice not to reverse the polarity as the 6 1/2" woofers firing in the wall will be out of phase. So i have to physically switch the right and left.

However, at the same time if the woofers will be out of phase when reverse polarity with the Super series, wouldn't it be in phase with the Evo series?

LOL...this is quite confusing!

Well, do the battery test. If the woofer moves out with the same polarity, then they're fine. If the M6 is going in while the HDP is going out, then reverse them.

SB3 - L/R
SC2 - center
IW3- surrounds
IC4 - back L/R
Classic 12 sub

Anyone have any recommendations for a receiver in the $1500 range? Does any particular brand seem to just sound better on NHTs?

SB3 - L/R
SC2 - center
IW3- surrounds
IC4 - back L/R
Classic 12 sub

Anyone have any recommendations for a receiver in the $1500 range? Does any particular brand seem to just sound better on NHTs?

I have ST4s and SB3 as a center. I used a NAD T763 with 3 external 200W monoblocks for the front stage for the longest time. Currently demoing a very capable Denon 3808ci with the same monoblocks. I believe that falls easily in your price range.

Wacked, unwacked, wacked, unwacked.

Anyhow, while unwacked I made two postings at S & V. One more posting on that subject is my limit!

Now I ask you, with the importance of the front three speakers sounding as much alike as possible, how it wrong to achieve that sonic symmetry even if it's through a rather unorthodox method?

Another observation. Yes, if you have the speakers vertical and measure them from the same angle, they will measure/sound the same from that angle. But they will quickly change from one position to another. The Evos are designed to be consistent, rather than the best of the best. The idea is to get good and consistent sound at all the listening positions, even in harsh listening environments, rather than the best possible sound in a small location or even a big location in a more idealized environment. The goal isn't necessarily to sound identical everywhere, but to sound *close* everywhere.

Now, the best way to get the best possible sound in a symmetrical room is to use a 2-way or 3-way speaker that is designed to be used vertically in all applications, such as an NHT Two or NHT Three. Of course, a Three will bath your walls in sound and cloud up the sound pretty quickly in a small room unless you do some room treatment. So, the NHT Evos are a bit of a compromise, but they're a *smart* compromise that is probably the compromise most appropriate for your situation. So, i say, don't worry about test tones, just enjoy them! No speaker is perfect, but these sound like they're working just fine, as long as people aren't second-guessing you.

Now, the best way to get the best possible sound in a symmetrical room is to use a 2-way or 3-way speaker that is designed to be used vertically in all applications, such as an NHT Two or NHT Three.





Why not use three M-5's or M'6's up front all oriented in a horizontal manner if you have a fairly wide and symmetrical room?

I have my L-5 surrounds mounted slightly behind the listening position, mounted vertically. The tweeters are 61/2 feet from the floor, and oriented towards the seats. Would I be better off mounting the L-5s horizontally with the tweeters oriented down? I don't want the wife to shoot me for making more holes in the walls, would this be worthwhile? Thanks!

I have my L-5 surrounds mounted slightly behind the listening position, mounted vertically. The tweeters are 61/2 feet from the floor, and oriented towards the seats. Would I be better off mounting the L-5s horizontally with the tweeters oriented down? I don't want the wife to shoot me for making more holes in the walls, would this be worthwhile? Thanks!



Go by what looks best in your particular room!

Whacked, unwhacked, whacked, unwhacked, and whacked again.

Yesman is a very confused S & V "moderator".

I completed my three on topic postings. Let's see if the Yesman deletes them. Maybe my buddy will whack the Yesman!

SB3 - L/R
SC2 - center
IW3- surrounds
IC4 - back L/R
Classic 12 sub

Anyone have any recommendations for a receiver in the $1500 range? Does any particular brand seem to just sound better on NHTs?

rotel rsx-1058!

I have my L-5 surrounds mounted slightly behind the listening position, mounted vertically. The tweeters are 61/2 feet from the floor, and oriented towards the seats. Would I be better off mounting the L-5s horizontally with the tweeters oriented down? I don't want the wife to shoot me for making more holes in the walls, would this be worthwhile? Thanks!

We'd need to get a better feel for the distances and angles, to be honest.

Whacked, unwhacked, whacked, unwhacked, and whacked again.

Yesman is a very confused S & V "moderator".

I completed my three on topic postings. Let's see if the Yesman deletes them. Maybe my buddy will whack the Yesman!

They're just being stubborn at this point. They're so out to prove they aren't in the wrong that nothing will change.

Now I don't recall if the M6 had the same panning consistency as it's been a while since I've heard them.

They still sound great and look great Tony.:)

I thought they panned acroosed the front just like the m5. In fact I don't think I made any adjustment to the m6 from the m5 settings.
Allen

They still sound great and look great Tony.:)

I thought they panned acroosed the front just like the m5. In fact I don't think I made any adjustment to the m6 from the m5 settings.
Allen

Good to know. I'm now the proud owner of a 5 M5s and 2 L5s. I keep coming back to the Evos!

In about 2 months I will move my system into the bouns room and it will be M6 across the front and M5s for side and back surrounds.

Tony are you still using the flying mole amps to power your speakers.
Allen

In about 2 months I will move my system into the bouns room and it will be M6 across the front and M5s for side and back surrounds.

Tony are you still using the flying mole amps to power your speakers.
Allen

Nah, they are long gone. I'm using an Onkyo TX-SR805 and I'm loving it. I use Zone 2 for a dedicated two channel setup and the main zone for movies and multichannel music.

I still think NHT should look at an Evo II system down the road. I think with an upgrade to the drivers and crossover cabinet stay the same but go back to the black. I mean they wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel here.
Allen

Nah, they are long gone. I'm using an Onkyo TX-SR805 and I'm loving it. I use Zone 2 for a dedicated two channel setup and the main zone for movies and multichannel music.

That says a lot about the Onkyo then. Mark uses a 805 with his controler likes it a lot also.
Allen

Go by what looks best in your particular room!

Er, thanks...

We'd need to get a better feel for the distances and angles, to be honest.

Seven feet each from the listening position, mounted at about 110 degrees behind. The ceilings are 8 feet, the vertical center is at 6 1/2 feet above the floor. If I mounted them horizontally the speaker would be about 6 feet from the floor, and would extend forward a bit (obviously!) Question is, would a horizontal mounting give a better response than vertical, given the height and the tweeter/mid orientation of the L-5.

Seven feet each from the listening position, mounted at about 110 degrees behind. The ceilings are 8 feet, the vertical center is at 6 1/2 feet above the floor. If I mounted them horizontally the speaker would be about 6 feet from the floor, and would extend forward a bit (obviously!) Question is, would a horizontal mounting give a better response than vertical, given the height and the tweeter/mid orientation of the L-5.



I would answer in detail, but I am just a bit tired of the entire discussion about the dispersion pattern of the M-5, M-6 and L-5 speakers.

In my new room, I am going to be forced to mount the L-5 surrounds on the ceiling. I would prefer to wall mount them as you have done. Either method will work just fine as far as sound quality is concerned, so I say go by personal preference.

They're just being stubborn at this point. They're so out to prove they aren't in the wrong that nothing will change.



Yup, that thread made the S & V organization look so bad that they decided to delete it. "The boys" covered up their tracks very well. I wonder how many of those posters work for S & V? At this point, I am done with that group of stooges.


The funny thing about the entire "discussion" was that I could swear that Thumpin is either a borderline retard or he is under the influence of the S & V Svengalis, the self acclaimed experts. All anyone had to do was read the Evolution instruction manual. Everything that was being discussed was clearly written in the manual. Then when you read the manual to any of them, they say that is just marketing.


The Svengali's over there are so self involved and so rigid in their thinking that it is best just to let them live in their tiny little world. The self dealing actions of the "moderators" at S & V is way over the top.

I just like how they changed their attack angle from 'anything that resembles an MTM or LCR should be vertical all the time and anyone who says differently is an idiot' [and therefore should be banned] to 'well, those speakers don't behave normally, so they suck and anyone who says differently is full of crap' [and therefore should be banned]. And we're the jerks. That whole 'you're a liar until proven otherwise' crap gets old. 0h well, sounds like everything will return to normal pretty quick. The whole debacle was getting old.

I received two subscription messages to the thread sent to me overnight. When I clicked on the read message link, I found that the messages I was trying to access had been deleted. When I looked for the thread, it too was gone. I was stunned.

I was unwhacked again, so I posted twice last night.

I responded directly to the Yesman's "good buy" posting to me.


Response:


Me no savy Kemo Sabi!

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/ksm0434l.jpg

I received two subscription messages to the thread sent to me overnight. When I clicked on the read message link, I found that the messages I was trying to access had been deleted. When I looked for the thread, it too was gone. I was stunned.

I wasn't surprised. Though, I don't understand what could have gone wrong, I thought they had banned all the problem people and left only the civil ones. Besides, Yesfan is such a pro at moderating, how could it happen? ;)

I just like how they changed their attack angle from 'anything that resembles an MTM or LCR should be vertical all the time and anyone who says differently is an idiot' [and therefore should be banned] to 'well, those speakers don't behave normally, so they suck and anyone who says differently is full of crap' [and therefore should be banned]. And we're the jerks. That whole 'you're a liar until proven otherwise' crap gets old. 0h well, sounds like everything will return to normal pretty quick. The whole debacle was getting old.



Yup. Kind of hard to debate people who claim to know via their expert opinion what a speaker sounds like by reading a FR chart. Yet these same people will bash you on another thread with their expert opinion that you can not tell what a speaker sounds like by reading a FR chart.

I like to look at charts and research proper setup of everything. I like to measure speakers and whatever equipment that I need information on. However, nothing beats listening to a speaker system that has been setup in a responsible manner.

Thumpin could have simply followed the directions in the Evolution manual and everything would have been fine. One problem I noted with the Evo manual. The pictures in section 3.0 show both of the L & R speaker's tweeters that should face to the inside as being oriented with both tweeters facing left.



My second posting last night went something like this. People should stop talking like Tonto and start thinking like Kemo Sabi. I added something about not being sure if Tonto was a better man than Cochise. Mark and Tony will understand that bit of humor.


http://www.anvari.org/fun/Misc/Tonto_and_Kemo_Sabe.html

I thought this was supposed to be the "Classic 3" thread???:confused::eek:

I thought this was supposed to be the "Classic 3" thread???:confused::eek:

Well, not really. It has morphed into the NHT Owners thread over the last 7000+ posts.

That said, I am comfortable with the belief that if you have a question about the C3 one of the more experienced folks that frequent these parts will be more than happy to try and assist.

Do you have a query regarding the C3?

I thought this was supposed to be the "Classic 3" thread???:confused::eek:

It can be if you have a question about Classic 3s on your second post here.

We're kinda filling space/time as we've covered about every conceivable angle on these speakers over the last 246 pages.

It can be if you have a question about Classic 3s on your second post here.

We're kinda filling space/time as we've covered about every conceivable angle on these speakers over the last 246 pages.

Ah I get it... so why not create a "We're kinda filling space/time" thread? ;) As a new owner I thought I could come and get some easy to to navigate info... no specific questions... but this thread is like the "Tower of Babel"!

I think I'll just spend my time actually listening! :D

CD

Ah I get it... so why not create a "We're kinda filling space/time" thread? ;) As a new owner I thought I could come and get some easy to to navigate info... no specific questions... but this thread is like the "Tower of Babel"!

I think I'll just spend my time actually listening! :D

CD

Hey, there's only so much time can be spent on the same stuff, that's why the meat of the thread comes from people asking questions. You picked a bad time to jump on as it's a lot of activity over BS, but it's pretty well passed. You get that about every 25 or 50 pages of a long thread where it goes non linear for awhile. At least this one always comes back to the main issue, which is why it still keeps going.

Of course, listening is always preferred to talking about it :D

And sometime John gets mad at NHT for doing something silly and we don't hear from him for a while...

:D

+1 on the listening vs. typing about it!

And sometime John gets mad at NHT for doing something silly and we don't hear from him for a while...

:D

+1 on the listening vs. typing about it!

Dude, I'm pretty much always somewhere between annoyed and furious with NHT, it's just a matter of degree. They're still the worst managed speaker company in business, as far as I can tell. They just have always been able to override that with impossibly good products. So far.

Dude, I'm pretty much always somewhere between annoyed and furious with NHT, it's just a matter of degree. They're still the worst managed speaker company in business, as far as I can tell. They just have always been able to override that with impossibly good products. So far.

I hear ya'. I just like poking the bear with a stick once in a while. It's a character flaw.

How's the new store coming?

I hear ya'. I just like poking the bear with a stick once in a while. It's a character flaw.

How's the new store coming?

Stores coming along, but I needed a break, it sucked up all my money and time! Got my pretty Revel Studio2 Xd replacements playing now (but still have Xds in my bedroom) :)

Speaking of Heavy Metal (Sneezy's signature), did you see South Park's rip on Huffing/Heavy Metal/Eliot Spitzer/Anne Frank (how *do* they combine those?) the other night? Hilarious!

We're kinda filling space/time as we've covered about every conceivable angle on these speakers over the last 246 pages.





There is not any current product that has not been discussed anyhow. No new product in the near term either.


Speaking of the Classic Three, I never payed any attention to the vertical dispesion pattern. The Classic Three has an interesting one.


http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1106nht/index3.html


I need an "expert" opinion on how this speaker sounds if I lie down on the floor to listen to music!:D

There is not any current product that has not been discussed anyhow. No new product in the near term either.


Speaking of the Classic Three, I never payed any attention to the vertical dispesion pattern. The Classic Three has an interesting one.


http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1106nht/index3.html


I need an "expert" opinion on how this speaker sounds if I lie down on the floor to listen to music!:D

Well I'm an "expert" but if i was lying down on the floor listening to music I'd have a dog on each side of my head with there tongues in my ears;) So I guess I haven't an opinion for you!

Nice review. I should probably listen with the grilles off from now on.

I assume they are to the sides of your 3 front seat?

Maybe. Depends on the sound. I'd try it though just to see.


hey, the HDP-2 is basically to the side of the sitting area. I am exactly in the middle. I guess i am just not used to this dipole sound as i really can not pinpoint where the sound is coming from. I am going to add a pair of my Onix XLS in the back channel this weekend.

In addition i am going to reverse the polarity of the HDP-2 to see if it works well with the M6.

I played with the boundary switch on the center speaker on "1"...and the sound was not as thick as usual. It was more light, especially on voices.

hey, the HDP-2 is basically to the side of the sitting area. I am exactly in the middle. I guess i am just not used to this dipole sound as i really can not pinpoint where the sound is coming from. I am going to add a pair of my Onix XLS in the back channel this weekend.

The 'can't pinpoint' is the entire point. Personally, i don't like this effect and NHT has moved on from it, favoring matched rears instead, especially with 6.1 or 7.1 systems. The more matched a system is, the less you'll hear the parts and the less you need a speaker that tries so hard to disappear.

SB3 - L/R
SC2 - center
IW3- surrounds
IC4 - back L/R
Classic 12 sub

Anyone have any recommendations for a receiver in the $1500 range? Does any particular brand seem to just sound better on NHTs?

I generally like the quality/simplicity/power of NAD, Rotel, Cambridge, Arcam if you can swing it. Denon is probably the next best and is an excellent value, thought obviously more gimmicky and less easy to use.

Seven feet each from the listening position, mounted at about 110 degrees behind. The ceilings are 8 feet, the vertical center is at 6 1/2 feet above the floor. If I mounted them horizontally the speaker would be about 6 feet from the floor, and would extend forward a bit (obviously!) Question is, would a horizontal mounting give a better response than vertical, given the height and the tweeter/mid orientation of the L-5.

I'd probably leave them. Lowering a bit would help if you can, but otherwise, i wouldn't mess with it.

Nice review. I should probably listen with the grilles off from now on.

Good idea, just avoid *any* kids or even unattended adults. Guaranteed to cost you $100 or more for the curiosity that killed the friendship.

The 'can't pinpoint' is the entire point. Personally, i don't like this effect and NHT has moved on from it, favoring matched rears instead, especially with 6.1 or 7.1 systems. The more matched a system is, the less you'll hear the parts and the less you need a speaker that tries so hard to disappear.

The M6 disappears really nicely in both my small and large rooms. I once pair up the M6's with 4 AV123 XLS as a 7.1 system...and it went great as well. Of course a good amp makes it even better.

However, with the HDP-2.........it really disappears to the point where the sounds comes from everywhere. Its a weird feeling and i am trying to get use to it.

You sure you want to get used to it? I haven't in 15 years.

In an interesting note, I just noticed that Jack's new company is located at the same address as NHT headquarters :confused:

Kinn,

Using diploes for rear channels is leftover from when surround channels were mono, narrow bandwidth and only really used to add spaciousness. Dolby Pro Logic basically. In any modern surround system you want a direct radiating rear channel speaker. You can probably get more for your HDP-2s on Ebay then they cost new.

Good idea, just avoid *any* kids or even unattended adults. Guaranteed to cost you $100 or more for the curiosity that killed the friendship.

Good point. I'll probably only remove them to listen to music. Imagine my horror when I had friends over and later found a cup on top of my SB2!:mad:

Speaking of Heavy Metal (Sneezy's signature), did you see South Park's rip on Huffing/Heavy Metal/Eliot Spitzer/Anne Frank (how *do* they combine those?) the other night? Hilarious!

The inspiration, it was. Took me back, made me laugh. ****ing genius.

I'm eying the Tom next door...

Really, believe it or not (:)), I am no guru. I have horrid ears. I know nothing, and that is only thing I DO know.

That being earnestly stated, I am quite sure that the OLD SCHOOL Judas Priest I am listening to right now sounds f'ing great on a sorry set of M5s.

I don't know why, and I really don't care.

In an interesting note, I just noticed that Jack's new company is located at the same address as NHT headquarters :confused:

Does that mean he can "sneak" us out some XDs?

No, seriously...Iron Maiden on XDs.

Think about it.

Really, believe it or not (:)), I am no guru. I have horrid ears. I know nothing, and that is only thing I DO know.

That being earnestly stated, I am quite sure that the OLD SCHOOL Judas Priest I am listening to right now sounds f'ing great on a sorry set of M5s.

I don't know why, and I really don't care.

Don't be turning up that Heavy Metal to loud
or you we be calling your M5s Now I Can't Hear This instead of Now Hear This. I know have to turn up my hearing aids everytime I listen to music. ;)

Don't be turning up that Heavy Metal to loud
or you we be calling your M5s Now I Can't Hear This instead of Now Hear This. I know have to turn up my hearing aids everytime I listen to music. ;)

Huh? :)

Does that mean he can "sneak" us out some XDs?

No, seriously...Iron Maiden on XDs.

Think about it.

Hey I'll go halfers on that 6.1 XD system from listen up, cep I get 4 speakers and the sub.

There is not any current product that has not been discussed anyhow. No new product in the near term either.


Speaking of the Classic Three, I never payed any attention to the vertical dispesion pattern. The Classic Three has an interesting one.


http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1106nht/index3.html


I need an "expert" opinion on how this speaker sounds if I lie down on the floor to listen to music!:DI know that was tongue in cheek, but I've actually noticed this on some speakers. If you're nearfield it's not hard to get well off axis. Or, just moving around a room when the speakers are playing.

Kinn,

Using diploes for rear channels is leftover from when surround channels were mono, narrow bandwidth and only really used to add spaciousness. Dolby Pro Logic basically. In any modern surround system you want a direct radiating rear channel speaker. You can probably get more for your HDP-2s on Ebay then they cost new.Yeah, as long as he doesn't tell anyone you said that ...

Randybes did, just waiting to here is reaction since he has DEQX'd HT3s.

P.S. John, I have yet to set-up the xd but will tonight. I did buy the Power 2 and 5 amps and like them. They are light and run cool and seem to be dead quiet.

I too am very curious to hear this. I just wish though that it was a dual sub Xd system with the appropriate filters that the DEQX HT3s were going up against.

I'm now the proud owner of a 5 M5s and 2 L5s. I keep coming back to the Evos!

Don't we all?!

Just wondering, but how do you like the M5s compared to the M6s and the Outlaw BLSs? And the M5s plus a sub or subs compared to the Fours?

Also, don't you have Ascend Sierras too, and if so, the M5s compared to them too?

I still think NHT should look at an Evo II system down the road. I think with an upgrade to the drivers and crossover cabinet stay the same but go back to the black. I mean they wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel here.
Allen

Exactly!

That says a lot about the Onkyo then. Mark uses a 805 with his controler likes it a lot also.
Allen

The Onk 805 really is an incredible piece of gear considering they can be had for $700 or so new from fully authorized dealers. Onkyo really hit it out the park on that one. In fact, they hit it into outer space!

I received two subscription messages to the thread sent to me overnight. When I clicked on the read message link, I found that the messages I was trying to access had been deleted. When I looked for the thread, it too was gone. I was stunned.

You can still access pages 3 through 9 by clicking here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=nht+m5/m6+debate+s%26v&hl=en&safe=off&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2005-20,RNWE:en&filter=0

... and then clicking on "cached" within each link. ;)

Yup, that thread made the S & V organization look so bad that they decided to delete it. "The boys" covered up their tracks very well. I wonder how many of those posters work for S & V? At this point, I am done with that group of stooges.


The funny thing about the entire "discussion" was that I could swear that Thumpin is either a borderline retard or he is under the influence of the S & V Svengalis, the self acclaimed experts. All anyone had to do was read the Evolution instruction manual. Everything that was being discussed was clearly written in the manual. Then when you read the manual to any of them, they say that is just marketing.


The Svengali's over there are so self involved and so rigid in their thinking that it is best just to let them live in their tiny little world. The self dealing actions of the "moderators" at S & V is way over the top.

Yep, it's just too bad that they had to take an "us vs them" mentality when we only trying to help with the actual facts. Oh well, it's prolly best just to leave them to all of their own "self proclaimed speaker expert guru" knowledge. :rolleyes:

But again, for any newbie lurkers out there who just recently picked up new Evos, who are you gonna believe and trust more, the man who actually designed and built the speakers (and prolly even wrote the manual) along with objective measurements that back it up, or, are you gonna believe a couple of self proclaimed genius' theories and assumptions about a speaker that they've prolly never even heard? ;)

Really, believe it or not (:)), I am no guru. I have horrid ears. I know nothing, and that is only thing I DO know.

That being earnestly stated, I am quite sure that the OLD SCHOOL Judas Priest I am listening to right now sounds f'ing great on a sorry set of M5s.

I don't know why, and I really don't care.

Yep, Evos truly are great speakers for metal! :D

...Iron Maiden ...

Run to the hills! Run for your life! :D

--->>>PANTERA<<<---- :p

TOOL + NIN




especially useful when you want everyone out of the house so you can run some calibration tests afterwards :p

The greatest album of all time, metal or not: ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation:_Mindcrime

Porcupine Tree.

There is not any current product that has not been discussed anyhow. No new product in the near term either.

Well, to be fair, there's been very little about Verve. Although it sounds like we're just not the target market anyway.

TOOL + NIN




especially useful when you want everyone out of the house so you can run some calibration tests afterwards :p

:cool:

Run to the hills! Run for your life! :D

Seen them several times in their 'hey-day" but most memorable was Dortmund Germany( 12 bands Maiden,Priest, Scorps/Shenker/Q Riot/Def Lep/Ozzy, etc) when they "killed off" Eddie...he was like 20ft tall or something crazy like that...be right back...

...had to throw some Powerslave at the c4's.

+1 to Tool and NIN (touring this year, btw)

Well, I set the xd up over the weekend. Are they perfect? No, are they superior engineering and sound, absolutely! I find that from 300 HZ and up they are excellent. I wish they just had a slightly bigger mid-range as I am going to have to experiment with the bass module to get great integration. That being said, I am sad that NHT is not manufacturing them as they were really on to something. I ordered another set as they are a steal at the close-out price. How do they compare to the Salks? Well, that will take some more study. There are certain things that the Salks do; however, timbre wise and clear to the source from 250HZ and up they are actually pretty similiar. The nice thing about the Xd is a complete solution to a superior 2 channel system-amps and all.

You're not going to believe this, but I actually have an on-topic question!

What's a reasonable expectation for dispersion from a SB3/ST4 in a home theater application as side surrounds? 45deg off-axis? 60 Deg off-axis?

Stereophile measured and got these results:

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/nhtsb2fig5.jpg

NHT SB-3, lateral response family at 50", from back to front: responses 90 degrees-5 degrees off-axis, on-axis response, responses 5 degrees-90 degrees off-axis.

and

http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/nhtsb2fig6.jpg

NHT SB-3, lateral response family at 50", normalized to response on listening axis, from back to front: differences in response 90 degrees-5 degrees off-axis, reference response, differences in response 5 degrees-90 degrees off-axis.

I'm trying to figure out if I need another row of side surrounds for the second row in my 13' wide room...thanks!

I'd try playing with the placement and angle first, and listen to them from both rows to see if there's actually a problem.

I'd try playing with the placement and angle first, and listen to them from both rows to see if there's actually a problem.

Thanks. Fair enough. I'm just trying to avoid an obvious mistake :)

Good point. I'll probably only remove them to listen to music. Imagine my horror when I had friends over and later found a cup on top of my SB2!:mad:I guess that explains the shape of the Classics - any cups will end up on the floor, especially if they're playing. :D

No offense, but as much as I enjoy kicking it around with you guys, you're not really my closest friends
Yeah, well same to you, John. #*%$&!

Peter ;)

I'd like to try bi-amp my C4. But x2 is hard to find nowadays, but x1 still has limited availability. I understand the difference between these two crossover is that x1 has evo line specific EQ. I am wondering if it is an easy job to disable the EQ and turn x1 into X2.

Thanks,

Eric

I'd like to try bi-amp my C4. But x2 is hard to find nowadays, but x1 still has limited availability. I understand the difference between these two crossover is that x1 has evo line specific EQ. I am wondering if it is an easy job to disable the EQ and turn x1 into X2.

Thanks,

Eric

I shouldve gotten an x2 when they were on sale:mad:... Besides the x1, are there any other similar crossovers out there in terms of performance and capabilities?

I'd like to try bi-amp my C4. But x2 is hard to find nowadays, but x1 still has limited availability. I understand the difference between these two crossover is that x1 has evo line specific EQ. I am wondering if it is an easy job to disable the EQ and turn x1 into X2.

Thanks,

Eric
I believe John (not our friend) Ashman has one or two. Why not PM Alimentall.

Peter

X1s? Maybe. X2s? I'm well out! Should have bought a bunch more, I guess......

PS - how about "pal" ;)

X1s? Maybe. X2s? I'm well out! Should have bought a bunch more, I guess......

Supposedly these are on back-order almost everywhere, but a well-known NHT authorized dealer that also sells on Audiogon has indicated that they are expecting some later this month. I lucked out recently and found one X2 and 2 A1's at a Vancouver, Canada NHT dealer - the same place I bought my Classic 4 system and CA 640R.:D

My local audio shop has a complete T5 setup (with the crossover, etc) on display/sale right now. Not sure if they'd sell the stuff separately or not.

rmp

My local audio shop has a complete T5 setup (with the crossover, etc) on display/sale right now. Not sure if they'd sell the stuff separately or not.

rmpT5 uses an X1, not X2.

Peter

Supposedly these are on back-order almost everywhere, but a well-known NHT authorized dealer that also sells on Audiogon has indicated that they are expecting some later this month. I lucked out recently and found one X2 and 2 A1's at a Vancouver, Canada NHT dealer - the same place I bought my Classic 4 system and CA 640R.:D

Can you say the store name? I'm heading up there again end of next week so I might just pop in. Even if they don't have the x2s in, it's always nice to go into a well-stocked stereo shop!

Check your Private Messages

I do have a spare X2 if anyone wants it. PM me for details.

Seen them several times in their 'hey-day" but most memorable was Dortmund Germany( 12 bands Maiden,Priest, Scorps/Shenker/Q Riot/Def Lep/Ozzy, etc) when they "killed off" Eddie...he was like 20ft tall or something crazy like that...be right back...

...had to throw some Powerslave at the c4's.

I saw Maiden circa '88 or so on the 7th Son of a 7th Son tour, with once and future (and future ex again) at that time KISS lead guitarist Ace's band Frehley's Comet as the opening act.

IMO that was their best album (I guess I just seem to like concept albums like the Wall and Operation Mindcrime).

Unfortunately, never really had the opportunity to see 'em again after that. :(:mad:

Well, I set the xd up over the weekend. Are they perfect? No, are they superior engineering and sound, absolutely! I find that from 300 HZ and up they are excellent. I wish they just had a slightly bigger mid-range as I am going to have to experiment with the bass module to get great integration. That being said, I am sad that NHT is not manufacturing them as they were really on to something. I ordered another set as they are a steal at the close-out price. How do they compare to the Salks? Well, that will take some more study. There are certain things that the Salks do; however, timbre wise and clear to the source from 250HZ and up they are actually pretty similiar. The nice thing about the Xd is a complete solution to a superior 2 channel system-amps and all.

I see that ListenUp is now offering separate XdWs for $600 shipped. Not that a stock single sub Xd system doesn't sound great as is, but seriously, it really is a HUGE upgrade to add a second XdW to the system along with the appropriate filters. That should pretty much address what you feel are it's shortcomings quoted in bold above. If you can, try that, and then let us know what you think. ;)

I wouldn't dare say that Xd is as good as or better than Revel Ultima2s overall (although I do think that they are at least comparable and Xd wouldn't exactly be totally embarrassed by Ultima2s), but I do for sure feel that Xd is clearly a step above Revel Performas.

As always though, YMMV.

I see that ListenUp is now offering separate XdWs for $600 shipped. Not that a stock single sub Xd system doesn't sound great as is, but seriously, it really is a HUGE upgrade to add a second XdW to the system along with the appropriate filters. That should pretty much address what you feel are it's shortcomings quoted in bold above. If you can, try that, and then let us know what you think. ;)

I wouldn't dare say that Xd is as good as or better than Revel Ultima2s overall (although I do think that they are at least comparable and Xd wouldn't exactly be totally embarrassed by Ultima2s), but I do for sure feel that Xd is clearly a step above Revel Performas.

As always though, YMMV.

Based on FR alone, they both measured quite well in Stereophile, with the Xds maybe having more low bass and the Ultima2s not having the slight dip the Xd has in the crossover region.

I do have a spare X2 if anyone wants it. PM me for details.

X2 has been sold.

I see that ListenUp is now offering separate XdWs for $600 shipped. Not that a stock single sub Xd system doesn't sound great as is, but seriously, it really is a HUGE upgrade to add a second XdW to the system along with the appropriate filters. That should pretty much address what you feel are it's shortcomings quoted in bold above. If you can, try that, and then let us know what you think. ;)

I wouldn't dare say that Xd is as good as or better than Revel Ultima2s overall (although I do think that they are at least comparable and Xd wouldn't exactly be totally embarrassed by Ultima2s), but I do for sure feel that Xd is clearly a step above Revel Performas.

As always though, YMMV.I think I will try it.

Based on FR alone, they both measured quite well in Stereophile, with the Xds maybe having more low bass and the Ultima2s not having the slight dip the Xd has in the crossover region.

The Xd is more accessible sounding. If you just turn them on, they make your toes start tapping sooner, probably because of the deeper bass and more forgiving upper midrange/low treble. The Studio2s are the most revealing speakers I've ever heard, but are a bit forward as well (and even if you apply some EQ to fix that, they are still more resolving). The frequencies between about 50Hz and 500Hz are definitely better. Even up to about 2kHz. The lower/mid treble, IMO, is better on the Xd, despite it's relatively 'cheap' aluminum dome, or, at least, more enjoyable. Deep bass is better on Xd. Enjoyability factor is better on the Xd, as is the ability to sit anywhere. But the Ultima2 is the speaker i'd choose as a no compromise mixdown monitor for music and is no doubt better at most of the small details, while the Xd just seems to get the whole picture right. I'm curious to see if the Salon2 is worth the extra $6K for the 4-way design.

My perfect speaker may well be the Studio2 run by a DEQX HDP-3.

Anyone have the opportunity to hear and demo the new REVEL SALON 2S?

BTW, I came across this:http://www.avrev.com/content/view/5584/339/.

Anyone have the opportunity to hear and demo the new REVEL SALON 2S?

BTW, I came across this:http://www.avrev.com/content/view/5584/339/.

the audio place i go to here in virginia beach, va has revel salon 2s. they sound amazing!!!!!! great extension and awesome soundstage. they were being powered by two mark levinson amps and a mark levinson pre-amp/cd player. i kinda like the way the salon 1 looks better...........

X2 has been sold.

:( And I thought checking this thread 4-5 times a day was enough....

BTW, I came across this:http://www.avrev.com/content/view/5584/339/.

But, but, I thought those sites were already owned by internet brands ;)

Seems like our friends are now crying in their beer. It looks like they are now just running a chat room for the inner circle. That forum has no administrator anymore, so that explains a lot of things.


http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=37&thread.id=178864

But the Ultima2 is the speaker i'd choose as a no compromise mixdown monitor for music and is no doubt better at most of the small details, while the Xd just seems to get the whole picture right. I'm curious to see if the Salon2 is worth the extra $6K for the 4-way design.

My perfect speaker may well be the Studio2 run by a DEQX HDP-3.





Would that be something that you would want to buy, or would that be something that you want to sell?

Just for the record, I like the sound of my M-5's!

Would that be something that you would want to buy, or would that be something that you want to sell?

Both! Well, I'd rather have a Miata or a Yamaha FJR + Ducati 696 for the same price, but well, maybe if i sell enough Studio2s ;)

Seems like our friends are now crying in their beer. It looks like they are now just running a chat room for the inner circle. That forum has no administrator anymore, so that explains a lot of things.

Tell me more, I'm still banned!

Edit - I looked from the one computer I have that's not banned and that's pretty funny. They ban or drive off anyone who doesn't agree with the 'inner circle' and then wonder why it's nothing but tumbleweeds (or imply it's our fault). Oh well, I'm pretty well over it and certainly not going back. Kinda reminds me of those blogs where, if you're not filled with like-minded hate and anger about some thing and have some rationality or reason, you're not welcome. In their world, it's more like like-minded super skepticism about and antagonism towards anybody or anything they don't know or understand.

Based on FR alone, they both measured quite well in Stereophile, with the Xds maybe having more low bass and the Ultima2s not having the slight dip the Xd has in the crossover region.

Yeah, well, while good measurements are always nice, don't make the mistake of putting too much stock in them as the be all/end all. After all, the stock filter Xds didn't even measure as well as M5s in HTM or Threes in Soundstage you know? ;)

I think I will try it.

Since you already have two different Xd systems anyway, then you just as well go ahead and get a third to do up a 6.3 all Xd surround system. And just think, with these closeout prices, the whole Xd surround package would have cost less than a pair of DEQXed Salk HT3s along with the amps to drive them. :D

Just for the record, I like the sound of my M-5's!

Even if you have your CC M5 positioned incorrectly. :p

Yeah, well, while good measurements are always nice, don't make the mistake of putting too much stock in them as the be all/end all. After all, the stock filter Xds didn't even measure as well as M5s in HTM or Threes in Soundstage you know? ;)

Sure. On Studio2 vs Xd, obviously I yield to you and John who have actually heard both on a regular basis, whereas I auditioned the Xd once for about an hour.

But I think it's impressive that a) the Xd can measure so well at less than half the price of the Studio2, and b) the Studio2 can measure so well as a passive design :)

Tell me more, I'm still banned!

Edit - I looked from the one computer I have that's not banned and that's pretty funny. They ban or drive off anyone who doesn't agree with the 'inner circle' and then wonder why it's nothing but tumbleweeds (or imply it's our fault). Oh well, I'm pretty well over it and certainly not going back. Kinda reminds me of those blogs where, if you're not filled with like-minded hate and anger about some thing and have some rationality or reason, you're not welcome. In their world, it's more like like-minded super skepticism about and antagonism towards anybody or anything they don't know or understand.



Right click the Internet Exporer icon, left click properties. Left click delete, and then left click delete all. Everything will be cleared and you can monitor the board (but not post).

I delete everything stored by IE once a week.

Right click the Internet Exporer icon, left click properties. Left click delete, and then left click delete all. Everything will be cleared and you can monitor the board (but not post).

I delete everything stored by IE once a week.

clear cache on exit ;)

clear cache on exit ;)


OK, I went to the advanced tab and checked clear temporary internet files on exit.

Since you already have two different Xd systems anyway, then you just as well go ahead and get a third to do up a 6.3 all Xd surround system. And just think, with these closeout prices, the whole Xd surround package would have cost less than a pair of DEQXed Salk HT3s along with the amps to drive them. :DActually, I canceled the second one so it will just be a 2.2 stereo system for a second room.

Right click the Internet Exporer icon, left click properties. Left click delete, and then left click delete all. Everything will be cleared and you can monitor the board (but not post).

I delete everything stored by IE once a week.

Even better, try this http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/
Use about once a day to keep things clean....

Actually, I canceled the second one so it will just be a 2.2 stereo system for a second room.

I did mention the various crossover filter sets, correct?

Sure. On Studio2 vs Xd, obviously I yield to you and John who have actually heard both on a regular basis, whereas I auditioned the Xd once for about an hour.

While I realize it prolly wasn't a direct A/B comparison, what did you think of them compared to your Three/U1/NAD combination?

But I think it's impressive that a) the Xd can measure so well at less than half the price of the Studio2, and b) the Studio2 can measure so well as a passive design :)

So what does that say about the Three's and M5's measurements? ;)

As much as I like, respect, and would love to have the Revel Ultima2s (although only at the right price, as I would never pay a dealer's marked up retail fee for them), with the Xd's current close out prices, one can do up a whole 6.3 all Xd surround system for less than the retail price of just a single pair of Ultima2s, or even with a dealer's 10 to 20 percent "discount" thrown in for that matter, and already have subs and power amps (not to even mention stands, speaker wire, and sub cables) to boot. Any areas where the Ultima2s might be superior to Xd would pretty much be negated by the extra costs IMO. Same with the DEQXed Salk HT3s (which themselves are undoubtedly a relatively great deal when compared to the Ultima2s at retail)..

For anyone in this price range and/or for this level of performance, this is an absolute no brainer (as all of these NHT close out deals for the electronics, Evos, and SD Classics have also been too).

I did mention the various crossover filter sets, correct?
Yes, but I haven't loaded any others yet. I will when I get the second sub.

While I realize it prolly wasn't a direct A/B comparison, what did you think of them compared to your Three/U1/NAD combination?

Sort of a tough one... I'm trying to remember exactly when I went and heard the Xd, but it was well before the Threes were out. I still had my SB3/SW12 setup then.

The Xd was definitely the best thing I'd ever heard. I had a lot of fun listening to it. Immediately afterwards I listened to Classic Twos and they sounded like complete crap. But to be fair, their setup was horrible: no speaker stands, no rails installed, precariously balanced on a glass TV stand, no sub.

As far as my memory serves me, the Three/U1/NAD is a fairly good approximation of the Xd. Just not quite as clear or balanced. Of course there's more stuff that would probably show up in an A/B comparison, and longer-term issues like fatigue that I couldn't evaluate.

For anyone in this price range and/or for this level of performance, this is an absolute no brainer (as all of these NHT close out deals for the electronics, Evos, and SD Classics have also been too).

I'm still debating whether to take the Xd plunge. The money's there but buying a set of stereo Xds would make things pretty tight, although that would be mitigated somewhat by selling off the Threes/3C/U1. But perhaps I should hold out a couple more years until I'm out of school with a real job and buy "Son of Xd", or hopefully something else similar... And as I mentioned I am quite satisfied with my current setup. I'm very much on the fence...

Xd may be history.

I thought the Xd was already history

Production of Xd has ended.

Listen up still has them on the website, but i've acted as their non-commissioned sales rep for quite a few already. That's why we're closing out all the rest of our NHT stock as well. Just sold my iW4 demos so i have to pull all of those out now.

~snip~ But perhaps I should hold out a couple more years until I'm out of school with a real job and buy "Son of Xd", or hopefully something else similar... And as I mentioned I am quite satisfied with my current setup. I'm very much on the fence...

Dude, still in school and have Classics/U1...be happy already.

:)

*sigh*

NHT is certainly done now. John has dumped them for somebody else.

Sad day...

I doubt it, they always seem to survive, but I'm tired of the soap opera, closeouts, lack of produc and, quite frankly, what I feel as extremely bad form in closing out products exclusively through online dealers that offer no value added service *after* being told it wasn't going to happen. Frankly, I wish I'd known they would do things like this in my crystal ball, i would have moved on 5 or 6 years ago. At $3000/set, I would have sold most or all of those Xds locally here and made a ton of money while doing it. I'm pretty sure that I've sold far more Xds than Listen Up ever had up through this point. When i complained that things were being closed out on line without offering them to regular dealers, i was told to 'resign' in no uncertain terms. I'm just taking them up on their advice. It's the only way to get the point across that dealers won't be treated like dirt.

Dude, still in school and have Classics/U1...be happy already.

:)

Well, I'm happy. But should I be happier? ;)

^^^ The US Constitution guarantees you the right to the "pursuit of happiness". :D

Yes, well, in that "pursuit" I have wound up with several restraining orders issued against me, so...

:confused:

^^^ The US Constitution guarantees you the right to the "pursuit of happiness". :D

Always the bad influence, Mark ;)

Hey, does anyone have any recommendations for outdoor speakers? I know NHT has the Outdoor One, but I wasn't sure how much they cost and whether they were still available. Anything else decent out there?

Hey, does anyone have any recommendations for outdoor speakers? I know NHT has the Outdoor One, but I wasn't sure how much they cost and whether they were still available. Anything else decent out there?

They are hardly high end, but my Polk Atrium 45s have laughed off everything that Michigan can throw at them the past 2-3 years. Mine are about 95% exposed to the elements (a rain gutter is a few feet above them) - snow, rain, ice, wind: no problems.

They play plenty loud enough to cover the backyard of my 1/4 acre property (we mostly use them for music in the patio/hot tub area).

rmp

Is there a big difference in performance between M5 and M6? I have been a long time Mirage owner and recently bought a Revel F32 and C32 and I find them bright. Is the Evo series considered warm or bright? I missed the close out prices for the M6 but can still get the M5. I recently bought the NHT Power5 and I have been very impressed with this amp. I now would like to explore NHT speakers and see what NHT has to offer. With the close out prices, the Evo series seem like a good place to start. BTW, I can place the M5 or M6 horizontally as a center channel speaker, right? How does this speaker fare as a center channel speakers compared to say, the Revel C32, Aerial CC3B Paradigm studio reference and the like?
My room is 20 x 17 x 8 and I have JL Audio F112 for the low end. Thank you.

They are hardly high end, but my Polk Atrium 45s have laughed off everything that Michigan can throw at them the past 2-3 years. Mine are about 95% exposed to the elements (a rain gutter is a few feet above them) - snow, rain, ice, wind: no problems.

They play plenty loud enough to cover the backyard of my 1/4 acre property (we mostly use them for music in the patio/hot tub area).

rmp

I noticed those. I know Polk is at least capable of making some decent speakers. This would be in Houston, so lots of rain and humidity, probably no ice or snow. And they just need to cover the little patio area for my new apartment. A few hundred square feet, I think. Thanks for the advice!

Is there a big difference in performance between M5 and M6? I have been a long time Mirage owner and recently bought a Revel F32 and C32 and I find them bright. Is the Evo series considered warm or bright? I missed the close out prices for the M6 but can still get the M5. I recently bought the NHT Power5 and I have been very impressed with this amp. I now would like to explore NHT speakers and see what NHT has to offer. With the close out prices, the Evo series seem like a good place to start. BTW, I can place the M5 or M6 horizontally as a center channel speaker, right? How does this speaker fare as a center channel speakers compared to say, the Revel C32, Aerial CC3B Paradigm studio reference and the like?
My room is 20 x 17 x 8 and I have JL Audio F112 for the low end. Thank you.


I'll trade you three M6s for your front stage for your F32s/C32. I'll even thrown in the B6 stands for L/R M6s to boot. :D

For what I wrote before about M22s compared to M5s, click here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11494603&highlight=m22s#post11494603

... and read through the next few posts, but keep in mind that even though the M22s also have boundary compensation, the M5s still had a big advantage over the M22s in that particular room and placement situation due to their VFIG, and the fact that they are sealed.

Is there a big difference in performance between M5 and M6? I have been a long time Mirage owner and recently bought a Revel F32 and C32 and I find them bright. Is the Evo series considered warm or bright? I missed the close out prices for the M6 but can still get the M5. I recently bought the NHT Power5 and I have been very impressed with this amp. I now would like to explore NHT speakers and see what NHT has to offer. With the close out prices, the Evo series seem like a good place to start. BTW, I can place the M5 or M6 horizontally as a center channel speaker, right? How does this speaker fare as a center channel speakers compared to say, the Revel C32, Aerial CC3B Paradigm studio reference and the like?
My room is 20 x 17 x 8 and I have JL Audio F112 for the low end. Thank you.

Closer to warm. I suspect if the Revels are too bright for you you'd like the Evos.

M5/6 are very similar; M6 has better power handling/can play louder. But a lot of people (including Jack, the designer) actually prefer the sound of the M5.

Closer to warm. I suspect if the Revels are too bright for you you'd like the Evos.

M5/6 are very similar; M6 has better power handling/can play louder. But a lot of people (including Jack, the designer) actually prefer the sound of the M5.

If it is Jack Hidley you are taking about, I sure would like to hear his input. He has been very helpful in the NHT Power5 thread.

I'll trade you three M6s for your front stage for your F32s/C32. I'll even thrown in the B6 stands for L/R M6s to boot. :D

For what I wrote before about M22s compared to M5s, click here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11494603&highlight=m22s#post11494603

... and read through the next few posts, but keep in mind that even though the M22s also have boundary compensation, the M5s still had a big advantage over the M22s in that particular room and placement situation due to their VFIG, and the fact that they are sealed.

Thanks Mark. I could be the Power5> Onkyo 805> Revel combo. I like the Mirage sound a lot but I wanted to move to conventional speaker so that I can treat my room for better performance and to deal with some overpowering bass response I have in my room. Maybe the Revels will sound better with treatment? Maybe change the Onkyo?

BTW from your comment above, it sounds like you find the Revel F32 and C32 in the front stage far superior to the M5 or M6?

Boston's Voyager series have always been pretty good.

BTW from your comment above, it sounds like you find the Revel F32 and C32 in the front stage far superior to the M5 or M6?

No Alex he just has about 4 complete sets of m5/6 speakers and could trade you and not even miss them. Plus he has about evry NHT speakers ever built some where set up.
Allen

Boston's Voyager series have always been pretty good.

Yeah, the Bostons and Polks both look good. Thanks for the suggestions.

Now I just have to decide if I can put them up without them getting stolen... I may start with something cheap and see how long they last.

is there any advantage to having the nht sb1 vs the superzero?

Smoother treble, warmer midrange, deeper bass, higher output. SZs image a bit better and have a bit more forward upper midrange if you're an imaging hound.

They are hardly high end, but my Polk Atrium 45s have laughed off everything that Michigan can throw at them the past 2-3 years. Mine are about 95% exposed to the elements (a rain gutter is a few feet above them) - snow, rain, ice, wind: no problems.

They play plenty loud enough to cover the backyard of my 1/4 acre property (we mostly use them for music in the patio/hot tub area).

rmp

The 45s are on special for just under $80 shipped right now at amazon!

Not sure if I'm allowed to post deals in this thread so please delete if inappropriate!

Smoother treble, warmer midrange, deeper bass, higher output. SZs image a bit better and have a bit more forward upper midrange if you're an imaging hound.

what I was going to say, almost exactly. They're both great speakers. I'd add that I find the SZ unusable without a sub, whereas the SB1 can squeak by.

The 45s are on special...

Ooh, thanks for the tip.

If it is Jack Hidley you are taking about, I sure would like to hear his input. He has been very helpful in the NHT Power5 thread.

As Matt said, the M6 will play louder, and is designed for bigger rooms than the M5 (and/or when the main listening position is further back than say 12' or so).

The M6 also has a little midrange "blip" that, luckily, for whatever reason, simply isn't present on the M5s.

As for Jack's comments about them:

The M6 has a slight 2kHz resonance in the midrange that we weren't able to get rid of. This bothers me both because I know it is there, and I hear it in the speaker. Or maybe I only hear it, because I know it's there:)

The M5 has better midrange tonality than the M6.

I prefer the M5 over the M6.

To me, tonality is the most important thing about a speaker too. After all, if a speaker can't accurately reproduce the correct sound of any given instrument (or voice), then it really doesn't matter about how well it does anything else, such as dynamics, imaging, soundstaging, etc. ;)

what I was going to say, almost exactly. They're both great speakers. I'd add that I find the SZ unusable without a sub, whereas the SB1 can squeak by.But why even think of SZs with the AZ's available. The Absolute Zero is really a wonderful little speaker.

Peter

But why even think of SZs with the AZ's available. The Absolute Zero is really a wonderful little speaker.

It is. It has the imaging of the SZ and offers most of the same advantages as the SB1, except for a little less bass.

But it's also maybe a little pricey compared to what you can get SZs or SB1s for.

Maybe the Revels will sound better with treatment?

Well, any speaker can only benefit from a better room/environment.

BTW from your comment above, it sounds like you find the Revel F32 and C32 in the front stage far superior to the M5 or M6?

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Frankly, if the T6s were still available, I'd sure as hell buy a pair of them at $4K retail before I would a pair of Performa F32s at about that same price, much less a pair of T5s for $2500 over the F32s for $4K.

FWIW, the T6 was rated as Class A by Stereophile primarily due to the M6.

No Alex he just has about 4 complete sets of m5/6 speakers and could trade you and not even miss them. Plus he has about evry NHT speakers ever built some where set up.
Allen

Nah Allen, actually, I only have five total M6s, with a pair of B6s and a pair of P6s to go with them, but I do have a few M5s though. :D

But why even think of SZs with the AZ's available. The Absolute Zero is really a wonderful little speaker.

Peter

Bingo! WE have a winner. :cool:

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Frankly, if the T6s were still available, I'd sure as hell buy a pair of them at $4K retail before I would a pair of Performa F32s at about that same price, much less a pair of T5s for $2500 over the F32s for $4K.


I most likely going to get a pair of M5 and compare them to the Revels. I can get five M5 for less than price I paid for the C32 let alone the F32. I might as well buy a 1080p projector with the savings...I am still using 720P PJ with my XA2 & PS3. Thanks, Mark.

Smoother treble, warmer midrange, deeper bass, higher output. SZs image a bit better and have a bit more forward upper midrange if you're an imaging hound.

thank!!!!!!!!!!!! i might just replace my superzero with the sb1 for surround back duty in my 6.1 system

The M6 also has a little midrange "blip" that, luckily, for whatever reason, simply isn't present on the M5s.





Paper midrange on the M-5 compared with plastic on the M-6, plus higher crossover frequency to the tweeter on the M-5.

Paper midrange on the M-5 compared with plastic on the M-6, plus higher crossover frequency to the tweeter on the M-5.

Pros and cons, please.

M5 is a bit smoother, but less cool. M6 has a bit deeper/better midbass.

thank!!!!!!!!!!!! i might just replace my superzero with the sb1 for surround back duty in my 6.1 system

What are you using for the other channels?

Pros and cons, please.



Posting #7475 sums it up.

I have never heard the M-6's. I do own the M-5/L-5, M-2.9 and M-2.1/1.1 series of NHT speakers.

As Matt said, the M6 will play louder, and is designed for bigger rooms than the M5 (and/or when the main listening position is further back than say 12' or so).



I don't how I missed that earlier. I have a fairly large room and LP is about 14' from the speakers.

What are you using for the other channels?

NHT 2.5i Front
NHT M6 Center
NHT M6 Rear
NHT SuperZero Surround Back
Velodyne HGS-12 on auralex gramma

NHT 2.5i Front
NHT M6 Center
NHT M6 Rear
NHT SuperZero Surround Back
Velodyne HGS-12 on auralex gramma

So you're looking to replace the SuperZeroes in the back? Why not get some of the L5s or M5s that have been on special?

to be honest, my superzero sounds fine for 6.1. i found someone selling a sb1 really cheap, so i though i would just upgrade.

NHT 2.5i Front
NHT M6 Center
NHT M6 Rear
NHT SuperZero Surround Back
Velodyne HGS-12 on auralex gramma


Nice.

Mark will be along in a few to convince you to pick up 4 more M6s and two U1s to round it out nicely.

Pusher... :) :)

^^^ On the contrary, since he apparently feels that his ported 2.5s are superior to M6s for use as main L/R when used in conjunction with a sealed sub, his system is obviously good enough for him as is. :p ;)

I do wonder though if he is is even aware of, much less already addressed the polarity inversions galore he has in his system by using M6s mixed in with a hodgepodge of other lines? :eek:

I don't how I missed that earlier. I have a fairly large room and LP is about 14' from the speakers.

Then you should prolly go with M6s instead, as that would be asking a little much from M5s.

My offer originally made in post #7463 still stands. :D

Paper midrange on the M-5 compared with plastic on the M-6, plus higher crossover frequency to the tweeter on the M-5.

Not to mention the driver size difference in relation to the same tweeter. :o

I can get five M5 for less than price I paid for the C32 let alone the F32.

WOW! That really puts things into perspective, doesn't it? :eek:

WOW! That really puts things into perspective, doesn't it? :eek:

Indeed it does.

^^^ On the contrary, since he apparently feels that his ported 2.5s are superior to M6s for use as main L/R when used in conjunction with a sealed sub, his system is obviously good enough for him as is. :p ;)

Please, you KNOW you want to convince him to spend more money! :D

I do wonder though if he is is even aware of, much less already addressed the polarity inversions galore he has in his system by using M6s mixed in with a hodgepodge of other lines? :eek:

And so it begins...the wheels, they are a-turning. ;)

^^^ On the contrary, since he apparently feels that his ported 2.5s are superior to M6s for use as main L/R when used in conjunction with a sealed sub, his system is obviously good enough for him as is. :p ;)

I do wonder though if he is is even aware of, much less already addressed the polarity inversions galore he has in his system by using M6s mixed in with a hodgepodge of other lines? :eek:

a pusher indeed. again judging. i am running my 2.5is small not full range bi wired with straightwire octave II. so, to me it does not really make a difference if they are ported or not. the hgs is taking the load. my rotel makes excellent use of 2 channel music. i am using this setup to make it more balanced for me for, at least until i get my revel saloons for 2 channel. i think the 2.5i sound great for 2 channel. how can you judge me on what i hear.

Nice.

Mark will be along in a few to convince you to pick up 4 more M6s and two U1s to round it out nicely.

Pusher... :) :)

i would choose two dd-12 or two hgs-12 rather then two u1s
:)

a pusher indeed. again judging. i am running my 2.5is small not full range bi wired with straightwire octave II. so, to me it does not really make a difference if they are ported or not. the hgs is taking the load. my rotel makes excellent use of 2 channel music. i am using this setup to make it more balanced for me for, at least until i get my revel saloons for 2 channel. i think the 2.5i sound great for 2 channel. how can you judge me on what i hear.

Are you by chance a S&V forum member? :D

Just answer this - are you even aware of your polarity inversions, and if so, what did you do about it?

Velodynes over NHT's? I don't think so! Blech.

Are you by chance a S&V forum member? :D

Just answer this - are you even aware of your polarity inversions, and if so, what did you do about it?

i did ask around in the forum about the polarity inversions. so i applied this to my sz.
you have a f*$ked up sense of humor

Velodynes over NHT's? I don't think so! Blech.

alimentall,
i have found that the servo control in the velos blend well with my nhts. i tried the u2 but found my hgs-12 more accurate and best suited for my nhts

i did ask around in the forum about the polarity inversions. so i applied this to my sz.
you have a f*$ked up sense of humor

Even though you had plenty of time to try to search to find the answer, you still didn't answer the question. Once again - what did you do about the polarity? I mean, surely, someone who can hear the difference in their 2.5s biwired with straightwire octave II and crossed over to a sealed sub (and how much better they sound than M6s in the exact same situation) along with how much more accurate and better servo Velos blend with and are better suited for NHT monitors can detect phase reversals when he hears them, no? ;)

alimentall,
i have found that the servo control in the velos blend well with my nhts. i tried the u2 but found my hgs-12 more accurate and best suited for my nhts

Well, more accurate? I don't think that's possible! I do like servo, generally, but haven't found them to trump the U1s, at least, not the Velodyne's. The Genesis units were better, but too unreliable and too costly to fix. I wouldn't give up my U1 for anything I've heard in the past 4 or 5 years, not that everyone would agree, I guess. The U1 is also the most reliable sub we've ever sold by a huge margin.

i did ask around in the forum about the polarity inversions. so i applied this to my sz.
you have a f*$ked up sense of humor


I have NHT 2.1 speakers, and they are similar to the 2.5 speakers as far as the internal speaker crossovers are concerned.

The SuperZeros and the NHT 2.5 speakers should be used with the same polarity the way I see it. The M-6's polarity should be reversed from the other two speakers from what I can figure out.

If you use the speaker polarity test in THX Optimizer, you can confirm my evaluation.

Are you by chance a S&V forum member? :D





Mark, artex4special has been very polite on this thread. I can't comment about S&V members on this site or I will be banned from this forum, but everyone knows that their forum members are not polite.

I have NHT 2.1 speakers, and they are similar to the 2.5 speakers as far as the internal speaker crossovers are concerned.

The SuperZeros and the NHT 2.5 speakers should be used with the same polarity the way I see it. The M-6's polarity should be reversed from the other two speakers from what I can figure out.

If you use the speaker polarity test in THX Optimizer, you can confirm my evaluation.

thanks for the tip. go nht!!!!!

I don't know if the last monthly update to the weekly blog ;) got mentioned, but it has an interesting round up of some comments on speaker design and the Xd:

The Importance of Xd (http://nowhearthisblog.blogspot.com/)

Got the xd 2.1. I have to say, it is difficult to make music sound bad - you can't say that about some high end gears. Good job. Thank you.

I have the special dark classic 4 and 3c up front. I want to match up the surrounds I know the classic 3 is prefered but what else works well and has anybody see any on sale? The 3 is hard to find.

Thanks

I have the special dark classic 4 and 3c up front. I want to match up the surrounds I know the classic 3 is prefered but what else works well and has anybody see any on sale? The 3 is hard to find.

Thanks

I love my ic4's. They are not for everbody though. I feel they give the spatial characteristics for surround music as well as movies that most ht owners want/like. But honestly, I like the stealth factor. Very clean install and not terribly off timbre from the front array(c4/3c as you have)which is confirmed by pink noise test/avia.

I have listened to some dvd-a and from where I sit it's pretty incredible as I'm surrounded by sound...but it's nicely balanced sound with everything meshing nicely together. Not to mention the ic4 has an 8in woofr w/ 3 twtrs each.

I have the special dark classic 4 and 3c up front. I want to match up the surrounds I know the classic 3 is prefered but what else works well and has anybody see any on sale? The 3 is hard to find.

Thanks

AZs are great if you can find them.

Things are really "cooking" over at that other forum. I could swear that the regulars over there should all be posting at Home and Garden. No new posters over there, and not much discussion about audio, video or home theater. The "gang" simply drove the outsiders off of the forum. It is obvious that they only tolerate yes men over there!



http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=37&thread.id=179685&page=1

I don't know if the last monthly update to the weekly blog ;) got mentioned, but it has an interesting round up of some comments on speaker design and the Xd:

The Importance of Xd (http://nowhearthisblog.blogspot.com/)

Nice to know they're still alive and kicking. I'm still tempted to pull the trigger on the Xd and sell all my 7.1 equipment. Two channel is so much simpler.

It will be interested to see what they come up with for the next iteration of Xd with the "smaller, cheaper, faster ...."...etc as mentioned in the blog.

Nice to know they're still alive and kicking. I'm still tempted to pull the trigger on the Xd and sell all my 7.1 equipment. Two channel is so much simpler.

Given the choice between Xd 2.1 and almost any surround system, I'd take Xd.

It will be interested to see what they come up with for the next iteration of Xd with the "smaller, cheaper, faster ...."...etc as mentioned in the blog.

I hope for their sake that 'faster' means 'faster to market' than Xd! I don't think anyone is showing off a system that will compete with what DEQX is doing for less money, though I can't imagine someone else hasn't figured out something. In a strange twist, they seem to be proposing sort of what I'd told them years and years ago - that they should start small, field a cheaper, more basic system since Xd was taking so long, maybe like digital studio monitors or something, til they can get the process down and gauge the market.

Also as you can notice, NHT weekly blogs and e-newsletters quickly become monthly, then yearly, then......... it's just NHT style.