Yup... I have the Marantz SA-11S1... I have a Bryston BP-20 I can hook up instead of the SONY TA-P9000ES to test balanced

Hi,

Just got my X2 to biamp my Classic Four. I am sure that someone posted best x2 settings for this purpose sometime back. I just couldn't find it. Do anyone of you know?

Thanks,

Eric

Some of you guys may get a kick out of the crying being done by the recently "demoted" members at the S&V forum!


http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=37&thread.id=184669

They're back. Even, well, that one... :(

Peter

Hi - Upon the advice of this board I have purchased two W2 subs to partner with my new Evo T5 system (c/w 2 x A1 amp). I was wondering where I might buy a 20Hz modded X1 crossover or have my X1 done - any and all suggestions are appreciated.

d.

Mr Murray,

We can do the X1 mod for you. Just go to www.audioconsultingservices.com and contact me from the e-mail address listed on the website to discuss.

Mr Murray,

We can do the X1 mod for you. Just go to www.audioconsultingservices.com and contact me from the e-mail address listed on the website to discuss.

Thank-you - I have sent an e-mail as suggested.

The 20hz mod is a must... you will not be dissapointed!

Mr Murray,

We can do the X1 mod for you. Just go to www.audioconsultingservices.com and contact me from the e-mail address listed on the website to discuss.

Jack... good to see you are moving forward in the industry... as a new XD owner I am VERY interested in the hiss reduction mod...

I am practically giving away an NHT controller at a grand. If anyone is interested let me know. Out of the box, used maybe three times, works great and includes update version 1.59. Have all original packaging, manuals, etc. I will be losing my butt on this one but I have just purchased another pre/pro (INtegra 9.8).

If anyone wants a great deal on a fine product, give me a shout.

Jason

Jack... good to see you are moving forward in the industry... as a new XD owner I am VERY interested in the hiss reduction mod...

I'm hoping for a digital input mod so I can run my Sonos directly in and one that bypasses the digital amps in favor of RCA jacks on that back. I never hear back on that. Still hoping........

Hi all,
I have a question. I have Classic 4s and a classic 3C in front for my home theater. The 4s crossover to the internal "woofer" at 125hz. (a 4 way). The 3C of course has not equivalent "woofer" and gives a frequency range to 73hz on the low end.. (I assume that might be down 3db at that point) For Home theater I cross over to a separate sub (HSUVT3Mk3) at 80hz. I happen to have an NHT SW2P 10"sub with SA2 amp. Would it make ANY sense to hook up the SW2P with the center and high pass the 3C at 110hz (which is the highest crossover point on the SA2). That way the 3C would handle 110hz up and the SW2P from 80 to 110hz. That would more closely mirror how the classic 4's are crossed over... My most important consideration is clarity of dialog for the center channel... male voices are in the 85 to 155hz range.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts on the subject.
Joe H

what would be a good filter for the xd and one sub?

So I'm new to audio equipment and decided a week ago to buy external speakers for my flat panel. To use evenly between movies and music (listen to rock, hip hop, dance, classical). I live in an apartment and the room it will be used in is about 18 by 12, so I decided to get a pair of bookshelf or towers and an integrated amp.

After researching (which included reading all 259 pages of this thread), I decided to get the classic four's and the harman 3490 (120 x 2 and Dolby virtual speaker). Together I found them both for a total of 1400 which was 100 below my cap. Today I came across the xd system for 3k, and though it was more than I was hoping to spend, it seems like a bargain.

I was hoping the knowledgeable alimentall and mark russ (and anyone else) would be able to offer some advice.

So my q's, since the future of NHT is pretty uncertain, is it wise to get the xd when it is such an innovative product (and may require parts and support in the future)? And for my purposes, is there a clear standout for what I should get?

Thanks!

No advice, econo, but you did awfully well for being new to audio equipment!

Jack's new company can fix the Xd amps, so it shouldn't be an issue. Xds are the best speaker you can buy under about $20K and better than most $100K speakers in many, if not most ways, so it's worth the risk. As I understand it, they didn't have that many Xds, maybe 30 or 40 or something to sell. I could have sold them faster than ListenUp. My customers and forum friends are the ones buying up the bulk of them it seems. I'd never sell NHT products ever again but the products are worth owning, especially on closeout.

Hi all,
I have a question. I have Classic 4s and a classic 3C in front for my home theater. The 4s crossover to the internal "woofer" at 125hz. (a 4 way). The 3C of course has not equivalent "woofer" and gives a frequency range to 73hz on the low end.. (I assume that might be down 3db at that point) For Home theater I cross over to a separate sub (HSUVT3Mk3) at 80hz. I happen to have an NHT SW2P 10"sub with SA2 amp. Would it make ANY sense to hook up the SW2P with the center and high pass the 3C at 110hz (which is the highest crossover point on the SA2). That way the 3C would handle 110hz up and the SW2P from 80 to 110hz. That would more closely mirror how the classic 4's are crossed over... My most important consideration is clarity of dialog for the center channel... male voices are in the 85 to 155hz range.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts on the subject.
Joe H
I would definitely recommend using the sub on the center channel... set it to LARGE and cross it over at 80hz since that will be the -3db point and you will retain the definition/dynamics of the lower frequencies that the woofer in the Three will do better than the sub.
You should have your Fours set to LARGE as well and maybe even your rears if they are able to handle it.
Sound quality gets degraded whenever bass management is employed... I try to avoid it whenever possible.

I have a guy interested in my U1... does anybody need an X1 with the 20hz mod?

I would definitely recommend using the sub on the center channel... set it to LARGE and cross it over at 80hz since that will be the -3db point and you will retain the definition/dynamics of the lower frequencies that the woofer in the Three will do better than the sub.
You should have your Fours set to LARGE as well and maybe even your rears if they are able to handle it.
Sound quality gets degraded whenever bass management is employed... I try to avoid it whenever possible.How much of the program material is sent to the center channel is below 80 Hz? I thought very little - mostly voice.

Peter

How much of the program material is sent to the center channel is below 80 Hz? I thought very little - mostly voice.
Peter
It varies depending on the particular mix, but from the testing I have performed most good mixes contain full range information in all 5 channels and the .1 channel is utilized for what is was designed for... supplemental bass effects.
One of my favorite test scenes is the opening credits and Buzz Lightyear scene in Toy Story 2... the title comes from behind, flies overhead and then slams onto the screen... the rears AND center both contain very deep bass content in that particular sequence...
The soundfield, dynamics and spatial ambiance of the opening scenes with Buzz are exceptional...
The fact is, most 5.1 systems are not set up that well and a monster sub with small speakers can't hold a candle to a system with full range speakers and a smaller sub.
If you are producing low frequencies from large front and rear speakers you also lessen the effects of standing waves and un-even bass response throughout the room.

I would definitely recommend using the sub on the center channel... set it to LARGE and cross it over at 80hz since that will be the -3db point and you will retain the definition/dynamics of the lower frequencies that the woofer in the Three will do better than the sub.
You should have your Fours set to LARGE as well and maybe even your rears if they are able to handle it.
Sound quality gets degraded whenever bass management is employed... I try to avoid it whenever possible.

Bac,
I'm confused. If I cross the 3C center at 80hz isn't it set to SMALL by definition? Or are you saying to run the 3C as large and not cross it over, but low pass the sub at 80hz and duplicate the sub 80hz frequencies from all the speakers PLUS the sub?

My real question though is would the 3C center gain anything by using the small SW2P sub (10") for the 80 (or lower) to 110 hz frequency instead of the 3C carrying those frequencies?

Thanks for the help,

Joe

Bac,
I'm confused. If I cross the 3C center at 80hz isn't it set to SMALL by definition? Or are you saying to run the 3C as large and not cross it over, but low pass the sub at 80hz and duplicate the sub 80hz frequencies from all the speakers PLUS the sub?

My real question though is would the 3C center gain anything by using the small SW2P sub (10") for the 80 (or lower) to 110 hz frequency instead of the 3C carrying those frequencies?

Thanks for the help,

Joe
Yes, you have lots to gain in Dynamics and Deep Bass Response...

Set the Center to LARGE and take the signal into the back of the SA-2 amp which has a high pass filter output... that goes to the input of the amp driving your Center channel.

Of course, if you are using a receiever you probably can't do this... otherwise just run the 3C as Large... I think the benefits outweigh the loss of some deep bass reproduction...

So I purchased a pair of classic fours instead of the xd, mainly because my wife wouldn't let me spend the extra money on it. but all i can say is wow ... i feel like i have never listened to music before this. all in all, no regrets here.

Im finally getting out of my condo and into a real house. The fiancee and I are building a custom house and we're going to put in a dedicated media room. I have a Classic setup powered by a power5 biamped with an x2 and a marantz 2 channel amp and a controller. I have C4's up front, a 3C in the center and AZ's for surrounds. I have a couple of questions:

1. should I get another pair of AZ's for channels 6 and 7?
2. what are the ideal dimensions (Height, Width, Length) for a combo stereo/HT room using this setup, assuming enough seating for 5-6 people?
3. Should I use a special type of carpet or wall/ceiling material?

appreciate any input

thanks guys!!!


Rob

Im finally getting out of my condo and into a real house. The fiancee and I are building a custom house and we're going to put in a dedicated media room. I have a Classic setup powered by a power5 biamped with an x2 and a marantz 2 channel amp and a controller. I have C4's up front, a 3C in the center and AZ's for surrounds. I have a couple of questions:

1. should I get another pair of AZ's for channels 6 and 7?
2. what are the ideal dimensions (Height, Width, Length) for a combo stereo/HT room using this setup, assuming enough seating for 5-6 people?
3. Should I use a special type of carpet or wall/ceiling material?

appreciate any input

thanks guys!!!
Rob
Forget about channels 6 & 7... there are so few actual mixes in 7.1...

Less done better is more... get Classic Fours for the rear and you will never look back

You should have a sub as well... not listed in your post...

Im finally getting out of my condo and into a real house. The fiancee and I are building a custom house and we're going to put in a dedicated media room. I have a Classic setup powered by a power5 biamped with an x2 and a marantz 2 channel amp and a controller. I have C4's up front, a 3C in the center and AZ's for surrounds. I have a couple of questions:

1. should I get another pair of AZ's for channels 6 and 7?
2. what are the ideal dimensions (Height, Width, Length) for a combo stereo/HT room using this setup, assuming enough seating for 5-6 people?
3. Should I use a special type of carpet or wall/ceiling material?


Mine is 18.5 x 14.5 x 9.5, fits 6 nicely. About as small as I would want to go to do that, but it works great. Regular carpet with a thick pad. Go with 7 channel in a custom room. I have some sound absorption on the side walls.

thanks for the input John and BachtoRock...

Im just beginning the design phase and there are so many choices to make, but it will be great to hear my system in a no-compromise environment when its done

x2 on sound absorption and probably diffusing panels, too, after the room is set up and speakers in place. You are trying to reduce ring, standing waves, and other reflections. NOT easy to do yourself but there are experts out there who work hourly. http://www.nonoise.co.uk/diffusers/baddiff.htm (US Site not working properly right now: http://www.rpginc.com/) (no relationship with vendor).

Peter

Hey guys,

This being the quasi-NHT owners thread I wanted to post this here. I wanted to see if anybody knew a place I could a L/C/R set of NHT SuperOne's or SuperZero's. I've checked all the usual places lately. Craigslist, Audiogon, Ebay etc ....... but I'm not having much luck. I'm looking for them for my dad.

Hey guys,

This being the quasi-NHT owners thread I wanted to post this here. I wanted to see if anybody knew a place I could a L/C/R set of NHT SuperOne's or SuperZero's. I've checked all the usual places lately. Craigslist, Audiogon, Ebay etc ....... but I'm not having much luck. I'm looking for them for my dad.
Red,
If you loved your dad, you'd get him Xd's. At least that's what I tell my son...

Peter :D

There is a Classic Two Special Dark threesome for $350 at audiogon. I need them like a hole in the head, but it is very tempting.

Hey guys,

This being the quasi-NHT owners thread I wanted to post this here. I wanted to see if anybody knew a place I could a L/C/R set of NHT SuperOne's or SuperZero's. I've checked all the usual places lately. Craigslist, Audiogon, Ebay etc ....... but I'm not having much luck. I'm looking for them for my dad.

I have 5 of them and the matching sub.......

I have 5 of them and the matching sub.......

You failed to mention this on Wednesday when I was in the store.:mad:

You didn't ask! FWIW, I also have VT2.4s, 2.5s, 3.3s (all with matching centers), Stratus Golds, 1.5s, and a whole bunch of other things.

You didn't ask! FWIW, I also have VT2.4s, 2.5s, 3.3s (all with matching centers), Stratus Golds, 1.5s, and a whole bunch of other things.

This is true......:)

I am still Very interested in the XD;)

Well, I was going to keep my Xds, but I think I'll sell them and put the money into the house in Mexico.

There is a pair of M5s on ebay for $250 BIN.

it's like deja vu' all over again.

I'll repost my question. Does anybody know where to get the Power2 modified for working in Europe? Or is it ok to just use a voltage converter?

Subtle hint....

1-800-648-9993

Thanks for the hint! :) I will definately call.

Another question:

The NHT website gives the depth of the L-5 speaker as 5.6'.

Does anyone know if that is the measurement for the "cabinet" depth only or includes the wall mounting attachment? I'd like to know how far the front of the speaker reaches from the wall when mounted.

Thanks again everyone.

It's about 6" total depth.

Does anyone have experience in placing any of the in-ceilings or in-walls in a normal sauna and a steam sauna? They are supposed to be moisture resistant but I was wondering if these are too extreme conditions for them?

Does anyone have a home theater setup using the Xd system? If so, what did you use for a center speaker? If it was another XdS - did you pair it with the XdW or did you cross it over using your receiver or processor?

Thanks

Anthony, we've set up a lot of Xd HT systems, some with the Xd as a center, some with the Three C. The Xd is terrific as a center. For a 6.1 system, we use one XdA to power the left side with a sub on the left, one to power the right side with a sub on the right, one to power the center front/rear with a sub near the center. I'd put that system up against any HT system at any price. But for the $9K ListenUp is selling Xd (they should have sold out months ago, but they don't know how to sell the system, I guess), it's the ultimate speaker system bargain. A PSB Synchrony system costs almost that much without amplification.

Ironically, I have your original Xds in my possession.

I am still desperately trying to acquire an Audio Center Two to complete my 3.3/1.5 based HT setup. If any one has one that they are willing to part with (from smoke free home, perfect performance-wise, excellent cosmetically), please send me a PM, thanks.

I am still desperately trying to acquire an Audio Center Two to complete my 3.3/1.5 based HT setup. If any one has one that they are willing to part with (from smoke free home, perfect performance-wise, excellent cosmetically), please send me a PM, thanks.

First off, you should ditch those 1.5's and get some L5's at the blowout deal... the 1.5's are out of phase with the 3.3's for half of the frequency range...

As for the center... you can also use a L5, M6, M5 or VC-3 with great success...

Thanks for the input - though I guess I am surprised to hear that about the 1.5's. I will look into the L5's for 2 or my surrounds but I don't have space to mount L5's (listenup.com clearance, right?) for my surround backs. Any ideas what to do there instead of 1.5's?

Also, I am currently using a Classic Center 3 for the CC. What would be your best recommendation short of the AC-2, the M6 or the VC-3??

Thanks!

First off, you should ditch those 1.5's and get some L5's at the blowout deal... the 1.5's are out of phase with the 3.3's for half of the frequency range...

As for the center... you can also use a L5, M6, M5 or VC-3 with great success...

First off, you should ditch those 1.5's and get some L5's at the blowout deal... the 1.5's are out of phase with the 3.3's for half of the frequency range...

Phase Nazi!!!!

Thanks for the input - though I guess I am surprised to hear that about the 1.5's. I will look into the L5's for 2 or my surrounds but I don't have space to mount L5's (listenup.com clearance, right?) for my surround backs. Any ideas what to do there instead of 1.5's?

Also, I am currently using a Classic Center 3 for the CC. What would be your best recommendation short of the AC-2, the M6 or the VC-3??

Thanks!

The speakers that share the crossover design that inverts polarity to the midrange and tweeter are the 3.3, 2.9, AC2, VT3, VR3, VC3, M5, M6 and L5.

It is always best to use speakers that are matched or of a similar design in any configuration that has more than 1 speaker in it...

I have 7 L5's, and I'm going to ditch 3 in favor of 3 M5's or M6's to beef up the front sound. I found two m5's and I have a vs2 that I can use for center until I find another m5... will that sound terrible, should I just put a knife in my ears due to the phase issues instead or bear it out?

Also, if someone has some m5's or m6's they want to unload, let me know!

As Ive mentioned, Im setting up an HT room using my NHT classic / controller / power5 system. Which of the in wall or in ceiling speakers would work well as surrounds?

I'd say that if you're looking for in-walls, the IW4 would be perfect. It uses the same midrange/ tweeter array as the classic series.

The in-ceiling speakers are a bit different on design, but I'd say the IC3's are really nice.

Hey, speaking of "Classic", can anyone tell me about the old SW1V passive 'sub' with two 6.5 woofers? Basically a bass 'extender', I would assume. Would it sound good with a pair of SuperOnes (on music, anyway)? Would you hook it up and daisy chain from the SW1 to the SOs or would you use the 'B' speaker terminals and drive it that way?

Brian,

The SW1/SW1V was originally designed to be used with the Zero. You could use it with your Super Ones, but it won't be adding that much bass extension. It has about the same bass extension as the Super One does. It's sensitivity is also lower.

Don't connect it by daisy chaining it. The passive xover in the SW1 will filter all of the bass out of the signal going to your Super Ones. Connect the input of the SW1 to the speaker B output of your receiver. You will need to move the SW1 around some to get its output in phase with the Super Ones.

I would only bother doing any of this if the SW1 is free. Otherwise just get a cheap powered sub off of Ebay.

Good news, everyone! In a flash of extremely (or... poor?) judgement, I called up ListenUp and ordered a 2.1 Xd system. Current plan is to have it replace my 3/U1 combo up front. I'll feed it with my NAD T753's pre-outs, and I'll keep using my AbsoluteZeroes for the rear channels.

Should the AZs do ok for surround? I add 8 ft. to their distance settings in my receiver, right? Any point keeping my 3C for the center or am I better off running a 4.1 system?

So excited... Should be here next week. I figured it would be a few more years until I could afford something this nice. My only regret is that I couldn't purchase from John, who has been very good to me over the years.

^^^ Congrats, but no matter how painful it may be right now, definitely cough up $600 more for a second XdW while you still can. It (and the appropriate filters) really is a very noticeable upgrade over the stock 1 sub system. :cool:

^^^ Congrats, but no matter how painful it may be right now, definitely cough up $600 more for a second XdW while you still can. It really is a very noticeable upgrade over the stock 1 sub system. :cool:

I didn't order one, but it certainly crossed my mind. Placement of a second sub is currently a bit of an issue in my apartment.

Also, the sub listenup shows is special dark, but they refer to a "cream/maroon finish". Does anybody know which model it is they're selling? Mark, I assume you're running the low bass filter, as opposed to the high output filter?

It is the maple/burgundy. The two tone SD finish is rarer than hen's teeth.

As for sub placement, with either dual sub filter, the high output or the 20 Hz, each XdW should be within a foot or so if it's corresponding L/R XdS due to localization since they both jack the crossover point to the subs even higher

On my 2 channel Xd system, I run the high output filter, and on the 6.3 surround Xd system, I run the 20 Hz filter on the main L/R.

No non-Xd CC/surrounds are a perfect match, but IMO, AZs for surrounds and a 2C for the CC are adequate, especially if you have a Controller to automatically tie them all together. See there, I've done spent over $2K more of your money for you. :p

It is the maple/burgundy. The two tone SD finish is rarer than hen's teeth.

That's kind of what I figured, but it was confusing since they referred to the "finish pictured" or somethign to that effect.

As for sub placement, with either dual sub filter, the high output or the 20 Hz, each XdW should be within a foot or so if it's corresponding L/R XdS due to localization since they both jack the crossover point to the subs even higher

Yeah, that's going to be a bit tough to arrange. Currently, left to right, I have a 3, some equipment, a TV/TV stand/3C/more equipment, then my U1, then the other 3. I'd have to find a new home for all the equipment between the left speaker and the TV. Potentially do-able, though.

No non-Xd CC/surrounds are a perfect match, but IMO, AZs for surrounds and a 2C for the CC are adequate, especially if you have a Controller to automatically tie them all together. See there, I've done spent over $2K more of your money for you. :p

As lonely as that controller looks on ListenUp's page, the Xd was a stretch by itself. The sub's more tempting but still a stretch. But I'll give some thought to your suggestion.

So you do think the 3C+Xd would be better than the Xd alone with a phantom center? I'd planned to sell the 3C, but figured I'd try both setups to see which I liked better. AZs are definitely sticking around.

A local chain NHT dealer is having their annual 12 hour liquidation sale on Saturday and is offering some fine pricing on NIB clearance NHT product. Deals include special dark (brown) Classic 4's @ $998 CDN/pair, special dark (brown) 3C's @ $144 CDN/each and white Super Zeros @ $88 CDN/pair. Wow.:eek:

Speaking of which, I have the following to sell as singles or I need to order a companion piece -

1 Absolute Zero White (new in box)
1 Classic Two Black (new in box)
1 Classic TwoC Black (open box, new)
1 L5 white (used)
1 Classic 10 Special Dark (new)
4 NHT Xd Stands (only) Special Dark (new)

Just in case anyone needs any of it these left over items at a decent price. john@adnm.com

^^^ Congrats, but no matter how painful it may be right now, definitely cough up $600 more for a second XdW while you still can. It (and the appropriate filters) really is a very noticeable upgrade over the stock 1 sub system. :cool:
1000% true... get the second sub while you can!

Does any of the following sound familiar? ;)



The First Great Digital Loudspeaker



As many of you know, I have been listening to high end loudspeakers and electronics for almost 40 years. I’d need more fingers and toes to tell you how many times I’ve heard from a manufacturer, engineer or even a magazine reviewer that a product is a breakthrough or advancement. Everyone presents themselves as a genius and believes that their designs give the listener audio nirvana. It is especially fascinating when these so called breakthrough designs offer no “new” technology or original thinking in the advancement of audio reproduction.



Are they really saying that we already know all we need to know about how to reproduce music?



Last year, when I first met Clayton Shaw of Emerald Physics I was truly fascinated. Here was a designer that was offering original thinking and new technology. He talked about the holistic part of audio reproduction which includes the room as well as the loudspeaker and how they work together to present an audio image. He discussed the dynamics of music and how almost all speakers failed to recreate the true liveliness of a musical performance. He also talked about bandwidth and that you can’t have great music without great bass. And finally he talked about accuracy and how a speaker could really deliver truly flat frequency response in a listening room if designed correctly.



Had I just met another so called “genius” or did Clayton truly offer something that goes beyond the currently available designs?

After listening to the Emerald Physics’ CS2 loudspeakers I was blown away. I am now totally convinced that the CS2 sets is a new standard for musical reproduction.



Many of you are probably skeptical and insist that you always get what you pay for. In many cases this is true, but remember that I said that Emerald physics has “redefined” how a speaker is designed with revolutionary thinking that goes far beyond the evolutionary work of other designs.



So what has Emerald Physics done with the CS2? Using the computer that resides inside of a digital electronic crossover the CS2 achieves all of Clayton’s goals in spades. Really flat frequency response in a room, virtually no time based distortion, 20 Hz bass response, the ability to recreate symphonic levels with lifelike dynamics at low distortion and all in a product that is amazingly affordable.



Here’s the specifics…………..

Getting Rid of the Passive Crossover

Up till now almost all loudspeaker systems use passive crossovers. Passive crossovers have lots of problems. They add time based distortion, they rob power, they need to be carefully matched and even then rarely achieve a very tight frequency response due to the wide tolerance of the parts. Many designers band-aid their passive crossovers to try and correct these induced problems. This makes the crossover even more inefficient further robbing power going to the speaker drivers. The Emerald Physics CS2 uses a digital active crossover that virtually eliminates time and phase distortion. The 48 dB per octave slopes allow the tweeter to reproduce more of the midrange and therefore allowing the listener to hear more detail. The digital crossover also allows the CS2 to have a virtually truly flat frequency response, plus or minus ½ dB from 100 Hz to 20,000 Hz, something unheard of in speaker systems regardless of cost. This crossover also gives superior power transfer by not passively decreasing the power going to the speaker from the amplifier.





Getting Rid of the Box

Typically the most expensive part of a loudspeaker system is the box. Just ask

B&W or Sonus Faber. Emerald Physics takes away the box.

All boxes make noise - just hit the side of one. A speaker driver puts out a front wave and a back wave when reproducing music. This back wave bounces around the inside of the box making noise and changing its character until it dissipates into the stuffing in the box or escapes through the port or vent. When a vent or port is used, speakers tend to suffer from what designers call “Port Noise Complaint”. The CS2 doesn’t have any of these problems as the drivers are mounted on an open baffle and do not have a box to add distortion or vibrate with the musical signal. Get rid of the box and create lower distortion, lower cost and more natural lifelike sonics.





Getting Rid of the Large Peaks and Valleys in Frequency Response

Most loudspeaker systems are rated at plus or minus 3 dB. In reality, this can mean that a speaker system can have a peak of plus 3 dB at one frequency and have a minus 3 dB valley at a frequency not far from the one with a 3 dB peak. A difference of 6 dB. In many cases the measured bandwidth is just for a single speaker driver and not the total system. In the CS2’s design, the total system has an extremely narrow plus or minus ½ dB from 100 Hz to 20,000 Hz. How does the CS2 do this? By using an outboard digital crossover with numerous points of adjustment, This method allows Emerald Physics to adjust each system within an extremely fine tolerance assuring that you won’t be taken on a roller coaster ride through the frequency range.



Here’s a typical frequency response curve of a CS2 speaker.







Getting Rid of the Room

Emerald Physics knows that they can predict the performance of their drivers and crossovers, but they can’t predict the size of the room, its furnishings or its reflective qualities. As a designer of professional loudspeakers, Clayton Shaw had a vast understanding of how to control sound as it radiates from a speaker cone into the environment. By controlling the arrival times of sound from the loudspeaker system to the listener, a controlled dispersion technique in the design allows the loudspeaker’s performance to be relatively unaffected by the room acoustics and boundaries. Clayton’s use of wave guides on the compression tweeter along with the ability to control the woofer’s midrange dispersion gives the CS2 the ability to be relatively unaffected by its environment. Part of this technique also incorporates the use of a large cone area woofer that sends the midrange sound waves away from reflective surfaces and towards the listener in front of the speaker system. The use of an open baffle with minimal sound output on the side of the loudspeaker also allows the CS2 to be less affected by side wall interaction. This controlled dispersion is supported by the digital crossover which has numerous user settings based on where the speaker system is located in the room. These set ups are easy to implement and give very predictable performance of the speaker in almost any room.







Getting Rid of Intermodulation & EMF Distortion Products

When a speaker system uses just one channel of amplification to drive multiple speaker devices, additional distortion is produced in the audio reproduction chain. Some of this distortion is due to the amplifier trying to produce a wide bandwidth of information and some of the distortion is a by-product of the electro-motive force (EMF) produced by the speaker cone which is sent back to the amplifier. The CS2 uses bi-amplification to substantially reduce both the EMF distortion and the IM distortion produced in most systems. The use of a digital electronic crossover in the bi-amping path, allows the speaker driver and amplifier dedicated to that driver to only amplify the frequencies needed for that driver. By having one amplifier responsible for the low frequencies and one amplifier responsible for the high frequencies, the amplifier for the tweeters does not reproduce low frequencies and the low frequency amplifier does not try and reproduce high frequencies. This makes both the tweeter and woofer amplifiers cleaner and more efficient in reproducing music.





Getting Rid of Dynamic Compression

In a perfect world, a speaker would be able to play as loud as required with totally accurate tracking of the musical information as it gets louder. Unfortunately, in the quest for low frequency performance, many speaker designs sacrifice dynamics and efficiency for low bass response. This lack of efficiency creates a sound field that does not always reproduce each bit of musical information correctly. It is one of the reasons that many speaker systems sound out of balance when they play loud or the speaker is required to reproduce a large musical peak. Clayton realized from the beginning of the CS2 design process that dynamic compression of the musical information was unacceptable. If you wanted to listen to symphonic music or rock at concert levels then the speaker system had to be efficient and avoid dynamic compression.

By using several techniques including very efficient professional speaker components, multiple 15” woofers, compression tweeters and bi-amping, efficiency was maximized. This not only made the speaker system efficient, it also maximized the use of power from the amplifiers by requiring each amplification channel to only amplify those signals needed by the speaker driver it is connected to.





Getting Rid of the Need for Expensive Electronics and Cables

The CS2 is a very accurate reproducer of sound. Many speakers, due to their designs, require the need for very expensive electronics to achieve satisfactory performance. Conventional designs have problems with the impedance of the drivers due to mechanical and electrical resonances and the passive crossovers used. As mentioned earlier, passive crossovers are power robbing components. The CS2 maximizes power transfer. With bi-amping and the 48 dB slope of the digital crossover, the listener gets ever bit of power available from the amplifier. The high frequencies are not harsh or strident and therefore, the need for a softer sounding tube amplifier is not required for the tweeters. The need for expensive cables that filter out high frequency information is also not required. The need for 200 pound amplifiers with huge power transformers is not necessary since the CS2 is very efficient and does not require the large amounts of power that expensive amplifiers offer into low impedances. In fact, you may find that you will spend hundreds of dollars per channel rather than thousands of dollars per channel to drive the CS2. These speakers can sound great with inexpensive amps, preamps, cables and source components. Call us to discuss the right electronics to optimize their performance at a reasonable cost.



Finally Hear the Music as It was Live and Not Reproduced

As I stated at the beginning, the Emerald Physics CS2 is a true breakthrough product. Up till now, no one has incorporated or designed so many new and creative ways to improve the listening experience. If you truly want to hear music as it was originally recorded, you have to consider the CS2 on a very short list of virtually any speaker system that is available at any price. If you insist that the list only have speakers below $20,000, than the list may well contain only one speaker, the Emerald Physics CS2. If it were only $10,000 it would be a bargain…..at $3,500 it is a steal.



Finally, it is not just me saying all these great things about the Emerald Physics CS2. Here are some quotes and awards from several respected reviewers and owners.



“Well… how do they sound? In a word; phenomenal.”

John Potis

POSITIVE FEEDBACK ONLINE - ISSUE 37







the Emerald Physics CS2 represents the wave of the future … offers neutral sound, X-marks-the-spot imaging, and extraordinary top-to-bottom transparency … at the price, simply stunning.”

THE ABSOLUTE SOUND







“I heard the CS2 speakers at RMAF and they blew me away, sounding better than other speakers I heard costing up to $20k.”



User’s Review in AUDIO CIRCLE







“I’ve been trying to describe my CS-2’s to friends and other audiophiles, and usually end up at a loss for words. Now I can just guide them to JP’s review.



My only gripe with the review is his reference to “at their price” and the like. Last week I was in El Paso , TX , on business and had the opportunity to listen to the top-of-the-line speakers from B&W and TAD. I spent about three hours with them, and when I got home and gave a listen to the CS-2’s with the same music, volume, etc, I was very, very happy with my purchase. To my ears, the CS-2’s are cleaner, more dynamic, and just as resolving as either of the well regarded, high priced speakers. I believe the TAD’s were + $50K and the B&W’s were +/- $24K”



CS-2 Owner’s Email Comment





The Emerald Physics CS-2 comes complete with 2 speakers and electronic digital crossover. With the easy to understand instructions, placement and set up is a simple task. The end result is that the CS2 will sound great is almost any room, and with a vast array of electronics. Is audio nirvana here?…

I certainly think so.

Does any of the following sound familiar? ;)

Speaking of...

Got the Xd system in on Wednesday and set it up that night. I was a little concerned that the UPS guy left it on the patio of my apartment instead of with the leasing office, but somehow he'd managed to lock the gate to the patio from the inside. Pretty neat trick.

Set them up Wednesday night and did some listening. Got a little more time in Thursday. Friday was all hurricane preparations and watching the news, and power has been out since that night. So in addition to being constantly paranoid about looters making off with my new babies, my listening time has been quite limited.

But holy ****, wow. I'd previously listened to the Xd once, horribly set up, and then immediately heard the Classic Two for the first time after that and remembered going to the 2 as being quite a painful experience. In a couple of years since then, I'd wondered if I'd exaggerated that memory, but no. In a direct comparison, my Threes and SuperZeroes just sound horrible.

The Xd, to my relatively inexperienced ears, sound absolutely perfect. Just wow. Closest thing I've heard is my AKG K701s, which have some harshness and lack bass authority compared to the Xd. I'm dying for the power to come back so I can go home and get some good listening again without the lingering fear of a hurricane hanging over my head.

Thankfully in the mean time my girlfriend has had power so we've been air conditioned, able to cook, etc. But I miss my Xd!

Oh, while I'm at it, the speakers are currently about a foot and half from the front wall of my room (which puts them about 6 feet in front of me). Should I be using the free space or half space EQ setting?

But holy ****, wow. I'd previously listened to the Xd once, horribly set up, and then immediately heard the Classic Two for the first time after that and remembered going to the 2 as being quite a painful experience. In a couple of years since then, I'd wondered if I'd exaggerated that memory, but no. In a direct comparison, my Threes and SuperZeroes just sound horrible.

The Xd, to my relatively inexperienced ears, sound absolutely perfect. Just wow.

Hate to say I told you so, but, well, I did! :p



Oh, while I'm at it, the speakers are currently about a foot and half from the front wall of my room (which puts them about 6 feet in front of me). Should I be using the free space or half space EQ setting?

I'd prolly go with mode 2 in that case, but try them and see which you think sounds best.





Chris' latest blog is up:

http://nowhearthisblog.blogspot.com/

Particularly notice the part:

It means we are going to have get smarter, work harder and maybe for the first time learn real marketing.

Hate to say I told you so, but, well, I did! :p

Hey, it's not like I ever doubted you. But it would have been a couple more years before I would have been able to afford them at the $6k price tag. At $3k I would have jumped on them two years ago instead of upgrading to Classics...

I'd prolly go with mode 2 in that case, but try them and see which you think sounds best.

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I wasn't sure how close was close enough to justify it.

Particularly notice the part:

Now somebody else is thinking "I told you so"...

P.S. Got electricity back yesterday. I did a lot of listening last night :-)

Here is my XD setup... after extensive testing of sub placement this is their final resting place.
http://members.cox.net/pkarras/xd1.jpg
<br>http://members.cox.net/pkarras/xd2.jpg
<br>http://members.cox.net/pkarras/xd3.jpg

Here is my XD setup... after extensive testing of sub placement this is their final resting place.

Very nice. You using mode 3 for the speakers?

Everytime I read what you guys say about the xD I have to work really hard not to pull the trigger... :(

I think if we looked to our neighbors to the South for manufacturing, it would help them, and it would help us by having fewer immigrants coming North looking for work, and shipping costs would also be lowered.

Everytime I read what you guys say about the xD I have to work really hard not to pull the trigger... :(

If you can put the cash together, now's the time. If you think about other gear you can sell that helps soften the blow.

BTW the xD is a car manufactured by Toyota and sold under the Scion brand; the Xd is one awesome loudspeaker system ;)

If you can put the cash together, now's the time.

I agree. It might be a very long time before another opportunity like this comes along again. The dual XdW subs alone are worth $3600 when you consider people are paying more than that for a pair of Velodyne DD-15s. :eek:

I agree. It might be a very long time before another opportunity like this comes along again. The dual XdW subs alone are worth $3600 when you consider people are paying more than that for a pair of Velodyne DD-15s. :eek:

That's what got me. Who knows how long it will be before NHT puts an active digital system like this out again. 3 years? 5 years? Will they be around that long? And it could be a long time before others in the industry realize this is the way to design a speaker and build something to equal it.

And even if all that happens, what about the price? Could be way more than $3000-3600.

Man, I NEED a NHT SC-2 for my two SB-3's. Anyone know the best place to track one down? I found one on Ebay but I was dumb it got sniped. My SB-3's sound so good I decided to use them for my mains and get rid of my x-mtm and x-cs system but only if I can find a center. They sound too good to be relegated to surrounds.

I'm assuming a Two C wouldn't be matched properly?

^^^ As always, Jack would be the best purveyor of information here, but IMO, not only would a 2C/3C work OK since the tweeters in the AZ/Two are the same as the SB3, but it would actually be better than a SC-2 because of it's 3 way design with a vertical tweeter/mid alignment as opposed to the horizontal M/T/M 2 way design of the SC-2/Absolute Center.

I picked up five of the L-5 speakers on closeout from Listenup, good deal. That being said, I can't see the big deal over the Xd setup. The sub only goes down to 28hz, not that great. The satellites only go down to 110hz, so the sub needs to be up front and close to avoid localization. So far I don't see this setup being any better than a pair of Classic 2s and a decent sub from Hsu or SVS! Oh yeah, wazzup with those funky colors? All things being equal, that plum and cream look is just plain fugly, IMO. I think I'll pass...

That's what got me. Who knows how long it will be before NHT puts an active digital system like this out again. 3 years? 5 years? Will they be around that long? And it could be a long time before others in the industry realize this is the way to design a speaker and build something to equal it.

And even if all that happens, what about the price? Could be way more than $3000-3600.

While the closeout Xd prices are a once in a blue moon (to say the least) opportunity, that's what's so tragic about this. Just think, future generations of Xd would have only improved upon the original design and made them even better. Think towers with subs built into them like T5s and true integrated amps with their own pre-amp sections (with volume control) and digital inputs. Room correction to boot. :(

I still believe that 20 - 25 years from now, this will be the future of virtually all new speakers, but the cost effective mass marketing of them prolly would have been at least 10 years or so sooner had NHT been able to keep the program ongoing at a successful level sales wise. To say the least, this has prolly set it back from mass acceptance somewhat.

I picked up five of the L-5 speakers on closeout from Listenup, good deal. That being said, I can't see the big deal over the Xd setup. The sub only goes down to 28hz, not that great. The satellites only go down to 110hz, so the sub needs to be up front and close to avoid localization. So far I don't see this setup being any better than a pair of Classic 2s and a decent sub from Hsu or SVS! Oh yeah, wazzup with those funky colors? All things being equal, that plum and cream look is just plain fugly, IMO. I think I'll pass...

Dude, you obviously haven't heard Xd. Trust me on this, while the L5 is a fantastic on wall option, if you had a set of Xds, you would quickly sell your L5s as you would never even listen to them again.

BTW, the subs go down to 20 Hz if you have two of them and apply the appropriate filters.

Dude, you obviously haven't heard Xd. Trust me on this, while the L5 is a fantastic on wall option, if you had a set of Xds, you would quickly sell your L5s as you would never even listen to them again.

BTW, the subs go down to 20 Hz if you have two of them and apply the appropriate filters.

You may be right, but then again, what's with those funky colors? Didn't they ever think of, oh I don't know, maybe BLACK as an option?

You may be right, but then again, what's with those funky colors? Didn't they ever think of, oh I don't know, maybe BLACK as an option?

There was a 2 tone black/SD color available.

I'm more concerned about the support for the electronics than I am with the price. I have T5s for my mains and surrounds and I don't have a secondary, dedicated listening room available for the xDs. I know everyone that has heard them believe they are great but I'm just really concerned about support down the road.

Jack's still around working on them, so even if NHT goes under, he can work on them. Worth the risk. Hell, buy two for the price they're selling them. Wish they'd cut me in on the deal. Seems like it's mostly my friends, customers and acquaintances buying them up. Aggravating, but then, the faster these go away, the sooner I don't have to use the letters 'X' and 'D' next to each other.

As an aside, I finally got a chance to play them side by side with the Revel Studio2s. The Studios actually are more detailed and a bit brighter, but the Xd is more forgiving. But holy cow, the Revels are detailed. I really would love to DEQX them. Xd hangs in there really well, doing some things better, other things almost as well. It's the deep, clean bass, though, and slightly warmer treble that make them sound so good with such a wide variety of music, whereas the Revels shine on acoustic material where you don't have to worry about the compression and other artifact shining through. The Revel Gem2 and B15a would have to be my replacement system someday at $14K. But, alas, the Xds went into the 2009 BMW F650GS fund.

I picked up five of the L-5 speakers on closeout from Listenup, good deal. That being said, I can't see the big deal over the Xd setup. The sub only goes down to 28hz, not that great. The satellites only go down to 110hz, so the sub needs to be up front and close to avoid localization. So far I don't see this setup being any better than a pair of Classic 2s and a decent sub from Hsu or SVS! Oh yeah, wazzup with those funky colors? All things being equal, that plum and cream look is just plain fugly, IMO. I think I'll pass...

That's like saying you just picked up a Chevy Malibu and can't see the fuss over a half price Corvette C6. Imagine the best speaker you ever heard in your life and then imagine something kicking the living crap out of it. That's Xd.

Hsu and SVS have never made a subwoofer as fast and clean as the Xd sub. Louder or deeper, but not nearly in the same league of quality. The Xd sub is about the best subwoofer I've ever heard. Genesis made a sub that was on the same level but that's about it. I'm trying to convince other companies to pick up on DEQX technology.

That's like saying you just picked up a Chevy Malibu and can't see the fuss over a half price Corvette C6. Imagine the best speaker you ever heard in your life and then imagine something kicking the living crap out of it. That's Xd.

Hsu and SVS have never made a subwoofer as fast and clean as the Xd sub. Louder or deeper, but not nearly in the same league of quality. The Xd sub is about the best subwoofer I've ever heard. Genesis made a sub that was on the same level but that's about it. I'm trying to convince other companies to pick up on DEQX technology.


Granted the L-5s aren't the last word in speakers, but I still think they were a good deal at closeout. The Xd, which I haven't heard, may well be the corvette of spealers, but that funky color and the lack of deep bass response seem troubling. Even at the closeout price they face tough competition, but I have to say, if they were available in black I'd be tempted! That "plum and cream" color is just to weird for me, sorry!

Even at the closeout price they face tough competition

No, no they don't. I've put them up against $12K Focals, $20K Meridians, $18K B&Ws and a bunch of other things. The only thing that has gone head to head with them thus far is the Studio2s at more than double the MSRP, more when you add amps, stands, sub etc. They do some things that no other speaker has ever done before. Matt will tell you. But it's kind of like trying to explain an orgasm to a 10 year old. Of course, it will all be moot soon enough.

The funny thing to me is it's taking ListenUp so long to sell them. Even in this economy, I'd have sold the last of them months ago at $3K. As it is, I've directly or indirectly sold a good half of them for them. Without me, they'd be sitting on them for the rest of this decade and that is truly sad. An ignominious end to a truly great product.

Krylon is cheap.

Granted the L-5s aren't the last word in speakers, but I still think they were a good deal at closeout. The Xd, which I haven't heard, may well be the corvette of spealers, but that funky color and the lack of deep bass response seem troubling. Even at the closeout price they face tough competition, but I have to say, if they were available in black I'd be tempted! That "plum and cream" color is just to weird for me, sorry!

The Xd's bass is plenty deep, especially with a pair of subs and the 20hz filter. At the closeout price they have NO competition - simple as that.

No, no they don't. I've put them up against $12K Focals, $20K Meridians, $18K B&Ws and a bunch of other things. The only thing that has gone head to head with them thus far is the Studio2s at more than double the MSRP, more when you add amps, stands, sub etc. They do some things that no other speaker has ever done before. Matt will tell you. But it's kind of like trying to explain an orgasm to a 10 year old. Of course, it will all be moot soon enough.

The funny thing to me is it's taking ListenUp so long to sell them. Even in this economy, I'd have sold the last of them months ago at $3K. As it is, I've directly or indirectly sold a good half of them for them. Without me, they'd be sitting on them for the rest of this decade and that is truly sad. An ignominious end to a truly great product.

Krylon is cheap.

No need to tell me about orgasms, I'm not a ten year old... :-) Seriously, what's with the color? If they really sound that good, and they aren't moving even at half off, it's gotta be that funky color! What the heck was NHT thinking? I'm still tempted, even with the plum color, but I'd need a 30 day trial before I'd drop 3 grand on an unknown (and funky looking) pair of speakers!

What the heck was NHT thinking?

It's more like what the heck they were smoking. Speaking of which, did I ever relate the story of when the [now former] west coast sales 'manager' called me on a Friday night stoned off his ass and eventually passed out on the phone? Not even kidding.

I'm still tempted, even with the plum color, but I'd need a 30 day trial before I'd drop 3 grand on an unknown (and funky looking) pair of speakers!

Your choice, not trying to talk you into anything. The only way to make Xds sound less than stellar is to put them in a hard room with tile floors and no rug. Then they quickly become a mess because they light up the room. The sound quality shouldn't even be a concern. It's the color, NHT's stability and the XdA's reliability that could be concerns. But not the sound.

Ok guys that have experience with the Xds, how do they fare with the various types of music? And I'm wondering about all types of music. Do they fare better with certain types like acoustic? How do they do with rock, industrial, country, classical, etc?

I’m very tempted to buy NHT xd. I’ve absolutely no experience with high end audio. The most expensive speaker I’ve used so far is a pair of Audioengine A5. That’s why I’m hesitant to order NHT xd without auditioning. I listen to music 90% of time; mostly classic rock, soft/alternate rock etc. How good NHT xd is for rock music? From all the post it seems NHT xd at its close out price is a steal! But for me spending 3k on a speaker coming from a 350$ Audioengine is a big step up. Even if I decide to order the XD, I’d have a get a pre-amp. I’ve some questions regarding pre-amp for NHT xd which are certainly dumb questions! Any input on this is highly appreciated.

• Is it possible to use NHT xd using my laptop and/or CDP as a source without using preamp?
• If it’s possible to use without using preamp, how bad it’d sound compared to using preamp?
• What is a reasonably priced preamp (around 400$ ) that will work quite well with NHT xd?
• If I want to use NHT xd 2.1 setup with my ps3 for watching blue ray, what sort of preamp I’d need? Preamp with onboard sound processors? Any recommendations?

Thanks
Shahed

• Is it possible to use NHT xd using my laptop and/or CDP as a source without using preamp?

Anything with a variable volume. I used mine for quite awhile with just a Sonos ZP80. But you do't want anything too cheesy.

• If it’s possible to use without using preamp, how bad it’d sound compared to using preamp?

Depends on how bad the source is.

• What is a reasonably priced preamp (around 400$ ) that will work quite well with NHT xd?

If you can swing it, it might help to spend a bit more get something like the Peachtree Audio Decco that has a DAC and a nice preamp in one box. Or maybe something similar.

• If I want to use NHT xd 2.1 setup with my ps3 for watching blue ray, what sort of preamp I’d need? Preamp with onboard sound processors? Any recommendations?

Well, as long as you're only using 2.1, any analog preamp will do it.

Ok guys that have experience with the Xds, how do they fare with the various types of music? And I'm wondering about all types of music. Do they fare better with certain types like acoustic? How do they do with rock, industrial, country, classical, etc?

They do great with classical and jazz, most good revealing speakers are. BUT, what is amazing is when you hear a country CD and you actually start to like it because it sounds so good. Or put on Tool and realize just how much stuff there is on the disc. Or find out just how amazing The Wall really is or an old CD like Was (Not Was). Or realize just how incredible Peter Gabriel's stuff is and wonder why it sounds like mud on everything else. I mean, they don't do much for Van Halen II, but if it's well recorded, it doesn't matter what type of music it is. And they quickly show exactly how good or not so good any recording is. If it's overly compressed, it won't sound so hot. The more dynamic, the more layered, the

For instance, for my primary demos, I often used -

David Frizzell (country)
Patricia Barber (jazz)
Pink Floyd - The Wall
Peter Gabriel - Security/Up
Tool - Aenima
Was (Not Was) (most anything)
Everything But The Girl (most anything)

Anything with a variable volume. I used mine for quite awhile with just a Sonos ZP80. But you do't want anything too cheesy.

Depends on how bad the source is.


If you can swing it, it might help to spend a bit more get something like the Peachtree Audio Decco that has a DAC and a nice preamp in one box. Or maybe something similar.

Well, as long as you're only using 2.1, any analog preamp will do it.
Thanks John! I've thought about DECCO before. It also has built in 50w/ch amplifier, which is useless for NHT xd. Seems like a very fine audio product nonetheless. I've heard about different crossover filters exist for NHT xd, which can improve its performance significantly. Are they still available?

Shahed,

$3k is a lot of money to spend on a pair of speakers, but if any speaker is worth that, its the Xds. I see that you are new to high end audio. As someone who has been involved in the hobby for about ten years and has blown a lot of money on different speakers, amps, preamps etc. my advice is to go out and buy something good the first time around.

I see a lot of guys who fall into the trap of trying to find the world's best pair of $1000 speakers. They buy the latest "giant killer", get sick of it after 6 months, sell it and move on to the next "it" speaker, and end up spending a lot more than $3k in the process. I understand that people like to experiment, but I sleep a lot easier knowing that I have a pair of speakers that can hold their own in most respects against anything else out there, and will continue to do so for years to come.

Bite the bullet and get the Xds...with two subs, of course! :D

Don't worry too much about the preamp. I think that John's recommendation for the Peachtree is a good one.

Thanks for the help John. My music runs from classical (Mozart) to industrial (Nine Inch Nails) and almost everything in between. I too would need to a preamp of some form to feed the system. Is it pretty much the defacto recommendation now to go with 2 subs with the Xd system and would I need anything additional beyond the 2nd sub to run it?

I know everyone that has heard them believe they are great ...

Look at it like this, I would go so far as to say that there is absolutely nobody here on this whole AVS forum that was more in love with a speaker than B2R was with NHT 3.3s, but even he has now replaced the 3.3s with Xd.

Look at Matt talking about how his Three/U1 combo (a very respectable combo at that) sounds like absolute crap when compared to Xd.

Prolly my favorite NHT models were T5s and VT-3s, but they clearly just aren't in the same ballpark as Xd, not even the same league. Hell, not even the same sport!

Granted the L-5s aren't the last word in speakers, but I still think they were a good deal at closeout.

They were and still are, make no mistake about it. They are very versatile and flexible, and will solve virtually any mounting problem. They are great not only for anyone looking for on-wall surrounds that will match T5s/M5s and T6s/M6s, but will also work OK with 2.9s, 3.3s, and VT-3s because of the phase inversion.

The Xd, which I haven't heard, may well be the corvette of spealers, ...

To call them the Corvette of speakers is seriously not giving them nearly enough credit. :p

but that funky color and the lack of deep bass response seem troubling. Even at the closeout price they face tough competition, but I have to say, if they were available in black I'd be tempted! That "plum and cream" color is just to weird for me, sorry!

First off, there simply is no "lack of deep bass response". I don't know where you're getting that from, but you can put that out of your mind right now and forget about it.

Second, I used to think that they were fugly from their pics too, but when you actually see them for real, they really don't look that bad.

Finally, to say that they still have tough competition at the closeout price just serves to underscore what you said which is quoted in bold and underlined above.

At the closeout price they have NO competition - simple as that.

I just wanted to capture this quote simply because no truer words have ever been spoken. :cool:

I’m very tempted to buy NHT xd. I’ve absolutely no experience with high end audio. The most expensive speaker I’ve used so far is a pair of Audioengine A5. That’s why I’m hesitant to order NHT xd without auditioning. I listen to music 90% of time; mostly classic rock, soft/alternate rock etc. How good NHT xd is for rock music? From all the post it seems NHT xd at its close out price is a steal! But for me spending 3k on a speaker coming from a 350$ Audioengine is a big step up. Even if I decide to order the XD, I’d have a get a pre-amp. I’ve some questions regarding pre-amp for NHT xd which are certainly dumb questions! Any input on this is highly appreciated.

• Is it possible to use NHT xd using my laptop and/or CDP as a source without using preamp?
• If it’s possible to use without using preamp, how bad it’d sound compared to using preamp?
• What is a reasonably priced preamp (around 400$ ) that will work quite well with NHT xd?
• If I want to use NHT xd 2.1 setup with my ps3 for watching blue ray, what sort of preamp I’d need? Preamp with onboard sound processors? Any recommendations?

Thanks
Shahed

I'd suggest one with fully balanced XLR outputs. There is the Parasound Halo P3 2 channel pre-amp that can be had new for like $800:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHP3

. For multi channel, Outlaw has one for like $800 also if I'm not mistaken.

Edit, the Outlaw is now only $700! :eek:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/990.html

I mean, they don't do much for Van Halen II, ...

On the contrary, the remastered HDCD version of Van Halen II never sounded better than on Xd IMO.

For rock music in general, the Xds are so clean and free of distortion that sometimes you simply don't realize how loud you are really playing them, but I would definitely recommend dual XdWs with the high output filters, which are still available right here:

http://nhthifi.com/current/service-xd-xdsxdw.html

They were and still are, make no mistake about it. They are very versatile and flexible, and will solve virtually any mounting problem. They are great not only for anyone looking for on-wall surrounds that will match T5s/M5s and T6s/M6s, but will also work OK with 2.9s, 3.3s, and VT-3s because of the phase inversion.



To call them the Corvette of speakers is seriously not giving them nearly enough credit. :p



First off, there simply is no "lack of deep bass response". I don't know where you're getting that from, but you can put that out of your mind right now and forget about it.

Second, I used to think that they were fugly from their pics too, but when you actually see them for real, they really don't look that bad.

Finally, to say that they still have tough competition at the closeout price just serves to underscore what you said which is quoted in bold and underlined above.

My comment on lack of deep bass is really aimed at HT use, as the "sub" that comes with the package is listed at 28HZ lower limit. For music these speakers truly are full range, but for earth shaking HT bass a sub that goes down to the teens would still be needed. Speaking of HT, what kind of center could be used with the Xd? I have neither the space or the budget for a stand alone dedicated music listening room, so my speakers must do double duty. And please, I can't afford MULTIPLE Xd setups to create a matched HT, any other choices?

Thanks for the help John. My music runs from classical (Mozart) to industrial (Nine Inch Nails) and almost everything in between. I too would need to a preamp of some form to feed the system. Is it pretty much the defacto recommendation now to go with 2 subs with the Xd system and would I need anything additional beyond the 2nd sub to run it?

In my 14' x 18' room, the second sub didn't do much, but YMMV. It's always a good safe thing to get the second sub for all the more it costs.

I've sold 3 dozen Xds and not one person has gotten tired of it or wanted for higher performance. Only one person sold his because he got frustrated by the lack of matching center and didn't want to go 6-channel, but is reconsidering with the blowout.

With any CD that is well recorded, it's a revelation. But even decent recordings sound better, but not necessarily amazing. The kind of music is immaterial. They're incredibly versatile as any great speaker should be. Closest thing to transparent that I've found.

Shahed, the software upgrades are on the website and are easily installed. They do recommend dual subs for both upgrades as they are designed to take advantage of the dual subs.

My comment on lack of deep bass is really aimed at HT use, as the "sub" that comes with the package is listed at 28HZ lower limit. For music these speakers truly are full range, but for earth shaking HT bass a sub that goes down to the teens would still be needed. Speaking of HT, what kind of center could be used with the Xd? I have neither the space or the budget for a stand alone dedicated music listening room, so my speakers must do double duty. And please, I can't afford MULTIPLE Xd setups to create a matched HT, any other choices?

26Hz, last I checked. But with dual subs, you can use the 20Hz option. But there's no lack of bass. Most subs that claim 20Hz don't even come close. They just put out a mountain of bass at 60Hz and some bass at 20Hz. NHT is more honest about their specs than all but a few companies.

Shahed,

$3k is a lot of money to spend on a pair of speakers, but if any speaker is worth that, its the Xds. I see that you are new to high end audio. As someone who has been involved in the hobby for about ten years and has blown a lot of money on different speakers, amps, preamps etc. my advice is to go out and buy something good the first time around.

I see a lot of guys who fall into the trap of trying to find the world's best pair of $1000 speakers. They buy the latest "giant killer", get sick of it after 6 months, sell it and move on to the next "it" speaker, and end up spending a lot more than $3k in the process. I understand that people like to experiment, but I sleep a lot easier knowing that I have a pair of speakers that can hold their own in most respects against anything else out there, and will continue to do so for years to come.

Bite the bullet and get the Xds...with two subs, of course! :D

Don't worry too much about the preamp. I think that John's recommendation for the Peachtree is a good one.
Thank you Tim for your insightful reply. I totally agree with you. For someone who is totally new to high end audio, $3k is a lot of money to spend. Last few months I've been reading loudspeaker review whenever I can. It was becoming a obsession. Reviewers are always saying how their review pair is so good as to comparable with speaker 2/3 times of their price etc etc. So, I was lost and confused. I wana get it right the first time. Get it right as in buying a speaker and be happy with it for few years. Is NHT xd is the ONE for me? I'd have to find out. Getting ready to bite the bullet....

Thank you Mark for the preamp suggestion. I was wondering how much impact preamp has on sound quality. Wrt NHT xd, all things being equal, does a $800 preamp sound clearly better than a $400 preamp?

Thank you Mark for the preamp suggestion. I was wondering how much impact preamp has on sound quality. Wrt NHT xd, all things being equal, does a $800 preamp sound clearly better than a $400 preamp?

I own neither of these products, but I'll guess that the Parasound will sound notably "cleaner" than the Decco, and the Decco will be a bit more forgiving. Your room acoustics and personal preference will factor into which one will work for you. If cash is tight the Decco is a good idea because if you decide to upgrade your preamp later you could always use the Decco in a second system or with a computer system.

Wow, you turn your head for 24 hours and all of a sudden things start exploding.

Thank you Tim for your insightful reply. I totally agree with you. For someone who is totally new to high end audio, $3k is a lot of money to spend. Last few months I've been reading loudspeaker review whenever I can. It was becoming a obsession. Reviewers are always saying how their review pair is so good as to comparable with speaker 2/3 times of their price etc etc. So, I was lost and confused. I wana get it right the first time. Get it right as in buying a speaker and be happy with it for few years. Is NHT xd is the ONE for me? I'd have to find out. Getting ready to bite the bullet....

I just added it up for your benefit, and I'd spent about $3650 on NHT speakers before this Xd purchase. When I sell some gear I'll get maybe $1000 or $1500 of that back. Point being, I've essentially "lost" $2000 over the past 5 years with upgrades. Of course, that was 5.1 systems, so not directly comparable to your situation, but you get the idea.

Point being, get the Xd and do it right the first time. If I had it all to do over again and had the $3k Xd option, I'd do it, no hesitation. There's lots of great speakers for $1k, but they just don't compare, and to equal (or maybe better) Xd is going to cost you $10k easy.

As far as pre-amps go, has anyone (John?) tried NHT's PVC with the Xd? Probably not the right choice for our friend here since he likely has multiple sources, but I'm just curious.

I don't really have any good pre-amp recommendations for you. I'm using my NAD receiver still since I'm running surround stuff and have other channels to power. If you're just getting a plain ol' 2 channel pre-amp, consider adding a DAC at some point to make those Blu-ray discs really sing.

And please, I can't afford MULTIPLE Xd setups to create a matched HT, any other choices?

Classic AbsoluteZeroes work well as surround. I'm still undecided as to the 3C as a center speaker. I've been going back and forth between that and no center, and really, I think the Xds play loud enough and image well enough that you can do without a center. My advice at this point is skip the center and buy the second sub instead to get that extra 8 Hz you really want.

The funny thing to me is it's taking ListenUp so long to sell them. Even in this economy, I'd have sold the last of them months ago at $3K. As it is, I've directly or indirectly sold a good half of them for them. Without me, they'd be sitting on them for the rest of this decade and that is truly sad. An ignominious end to a truly great product.

Well, NHT's not pushing them, so they're just selling by word of mouth, I guess. Which basically means us. Although the day I ordered the guy said he'd had a couple other people inquiring after them.

Even at the closeout price they face tough competition, but I have to say, if they were available in black I'd be tempted! That "plum and cream" color is just to weird for me, sorry!

I don't get the complaints about the looks. I always thought they looked OK in pictures, at minimum. But wait until you see them in person! Absolutely beautiful. When you unbox them and see and feel that finish, you know you're holding a beautiful, luxurious product. Just the right amount of bling to show they're something special without dominating the room, I think. And they look great in my room, too, although I've got quite a bit of burgundy. The colors are sufficiently subtle that they blend well. Maybe they're just not macho enough for some people, but I think they're really classy.

But if you really want black... the Special Dark finish still seems to be available from One Call, though they don't list a price. You could always call them up and see if they'll match what ListenUp is offering.

Wish they'd cut me in on the deal. Seems like it's mostly my friends, customers and acquaintances buying them up.

Yep. Sorry John, I would have cut you in if I could have! I've sent a little business your way over the past few years, at least :)

Look at Matt talking about how his Three/U1 combo (a very respectable combo at that) sounds like absolute crap when compared to Xd.

Yep. Can't wait to play the Xd for friends that were blown away by the Three/U1 combo.

I'll end this by mentioning that my girlfriend was over helping me set them up. I've taught her a bit about audio and she's heard quite a bit playing over my Three/U1 setup over the years, but she's not an audiophile and couldn't tell you, say, the difference between a pre-amp and a receiver.

I fired up the Xd and the first thing she mentioned was how much clearer they were. The difference is not subtle.

Thank you Mark for the preamp suggestion. I was wondering how much impact preamp has on sound quality.

Not as much as the speakers/room themselves, or even sources/recordings for that matter, but definitely more so than power amps or wires/cables IMO.

IMO Xd just flat out noticeably sounds a little cleaner with balanced XLRs than with RCAs, even with short runs.

Wow, you turn your head for 24 hours and all of a sudden things start exploding.

For sure! I've spent more time here on AVS today than prolly the previous couple of months combined. :o

Point being, get the Xd and do it right the first time. If I had it all to do over again and had the $3k Xd option, I'd do it, no hesitation. There's lots of great speakers for $1k, but they just don't compare, and to equal (or maybe better) Xd is going to cost you $10k easy.

BINGO!

As far as pre-amps go, has anyone (John?) tried NHT's PVC with the Xd? Probably not the right choice for our friend here since he likely has multiple sources, but I'm just curious.

It has XLRs, so I'm sure it would work great! At the very least, it would make a descent interim solution since it is so cheap right now if it would help someone come up with the $$$ for an Xd set (or to add a second sub) right now if they also needed a pre-amp too and then they could add the "permanent" pre-amp later after the bank account has been replenished.

Well, NHT's not pushing them, ...

They never really pushed them before, so I really wouldn't expect anything different now that they're discontinued, but they do have a link to ListenUp on the NHT site saying "Xd last chance".

Matt got me thinking about what I have in NHT speakers over the years:
5 M5s + 4 B5s + 9 A1s + 2 X1s = :eek:
Plus the 5 Super Zeros and the SW1...

Guess I'll reconsider the Xds. BTW One Call doesn't offer the Special Dark system (as far as the website shows); they only offer the Special Dark satellite speakers.

What NHT speakers would work as surround channels beside another Xd set?

Guess I'll reconsider the Xds. BTW One Call doesn't offer the Special Dark system (as far as the website shows); they only offer the Special Dark satellite speakers.

What NHT speakers would work as surround channels beside another Xd set?

Their site shows the "classic" finish in the picture, but the actual text says "NHT Xd Special Dark Home Theater System".

I don't know if that's a 2.1 set, or what, but it's worth giving them a call and seeing what they'll offer you if they're the only ones who have Special Dark.

Their site shows the "classic" finish in the picture, but the actual text says "NHT Xd Special Dark Home Theater System".

I don't know if that's a 2.1 set, or what, but it's worth giving them a call and seeing what they'll offer you if they're the only ones who have Special Dark.

Here's what the Special Dark look like.. way nicer than the plum/cream combo methinks...

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=32592

Why did I have to come back here again?!? I'd have thought all the Xds would be gone by now, along with the temptation to buy them, especially since my Classic Threes suddenly sound like crap!:p

Seriously, though, I'm planning a home theater room with a 120" pj screen and am flip/flopping for my front sound stage between three stealthy IW4s, my current C3s and 3C on stands, or the Xds with the 3C as center. mattwardfh, if you get a chance, please let me know how the 3C fares as a center while flanked by Xd royalty. Is it totally out of place?

What NHT speakers would work as surround channels beside another Xd set?

mattwardfh, if you get a chance, please let me know how the 3C fares as a center while flanked by Xd royalty. Is it totally out of place?

Here's the word on that from the man himself a ways back on this thread:

Mark,

To use with Xd nothing is really going to match for center or surround. A VC3, AC2, TwoC or ThreeC will probably be the best match as a center. You will need to experiment to see which one works best. For the surrounds, Threes will probably work best.

FWIW - I'd personally rather have a Xd system as mains/subs for 2 channel music than any "matched" all Classic or Evo surround system for movies, but, as always, YMMV (at least until you actually hear Xd anyway) .

Here's what the Special Dark look like.. way nicer than the plum/cream combo methinks...

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=32592

Plus, it would better cosmetically match either gloss black or SD Classics as surrounds/CC to boot.

That is what I'll start considering. Like I said I don't have the space for a dedicated 2 channel setup and I am still a bit concerned about the electronics over time. If support disappears and the amp goes out could I even send the signal to a separate amp?

Link at one call for Xd special dark is gone...:(

Why did I have to come back here again?!? I'd have thought all the Xds would be gone by now, along with the temptation to buy them, especially since my Classic Threes suddenly sound like crap!:p

I kept thinking they'd go away and my decision would be made for me. But they didn't. And I'm glad!

Seriously, though, I'm planning a home theater room with a 120" pj screen and am flip/flopping for my front sound stage between three stealthy IW4s, my current C3s and 3C on stands, or the Xds with the 3C as center. mattwardfh, if you get a chance, please let me know how the 3C fares as a center while flanked by Xd royalty. Is it totally out of place?

I've listened to a bit of both. The 3C sounds OK, but there's something a little weird going on. I'm not sure I have the delay set right.

After only a few days of trying both setups, though, I think I prefer no center to the 3C. I need more time to evaluate. But...

FWIW - I'd personally rather have a Xd system as mains/subs for 2 channel music than any "matched" all Classic or Evo surround system for movies, but, as always, YMMV (at least until you actually hear Xd anyway) .

That's the real point. Hell, even for movies I think Xd 2.1 + AZ surrounds is better for movies than my previous Classic system.

That is what I'll start considering. Like I said I don't have the space for a dedicated 2 channel setup and I am still a bit concerned about the electronics over time. If support disappears and the amp goes out could I even send the signal to a separate amp?

Jack's best equipped to answer that, of course. I'd imagine they're good to support the electronics for quite some time, as long as NHT or Jack is around.

That aside, if you had the measurements you could use an off the shelf DEQX system and amps to achieve the same thing.

And, just as likely, if NHT does a "Son of Xd", it shouldn't be difficult to make those electronics backward compatible with the Xd speakers themselves...

There's certainly some risk, I admit. But if you're really worried you could buy 5 or 6 sets for what a pair of Revel Ultima2s and amplification would cost you ;) That's a lot of redundancy.

Well as an engineer, I do like redundancy...

Hell, even for movies I think Xd 2.1 + AZ surrounds is better for movies than my previous Classic system.


Well as Jack recommended, I do have the Classic Threes to use as surrounds with the Xds. Only problem might be that the Xds will be at least 105" apart due to the 120" screen.

I've listened to a bit of both. The 3C sounds OK, but there's something a little weird going on. I'm not sure I have the delay set right.

After only a few days of trying both setups, though, I think I prefer no center to the 3C. I need more time to evaluate. But...

Sell something and get a relatively cheap, but quality for the $$$ new or even used AVR with at least some sort of automatic calibration set up (if not outright room correction), like even an older Pioneer 1014, which has their excellent MCAAC room correction system, just as a random example.



That's the real point. Hell, even for movies I think Xd 2.1 + AZ surrounds is better for movies than my previous Classic system.

...

There's certainly some risk, I admit. But if you're really worried you could buy 5 or 6 sets for what a pair of Revel Ultima2s and amplification would cost you ;) That's a lot of redundancy.

Touche~ on both counts!:D

Sell something and get a relatively cheap, but quality for the $$$ new or even used AVR with at least some sort of automatic calibration set up (if not outright room correction), like even an older Pioneer 1014, which has their excellent MCAAC room correction system, just as a random example.

I'll look into that. Be a shame, though, as I'm otherwise happy with my NAD receiver.

For the "manual configuration", I'm supposed to add 7-8 feet to the distance for the Xds, and the distance for everything else remains the same? Is that right?

^^^ I used to have a T753, and IMO, it does have an above average analog 2 channel pre-amp section compared to other AVRs at or close to what it's price range was/is.

The processing latency of the XdA does add about an extra 8' of effective distance that must be accounted for in a surround set up when mixed with non-Xd surrounds/CC. Are you adding it the CC/surrounds, or the Xd?

I have a surround sound system consisting of 4 SuperOnes, a SuperCenter and a SubOne. This system has been retired as my main system. Regarding the SubOne, I blew the protector fuse on that while vacuuming (I apparently touched the controller box causing the fuse to blow). This happened once before when the sub was under warranty and they ended up having to send it to Miami to be fixed. This time I tried replacing the fuses myself a couple of times, but as soon as I turned the sub on, the fuses blew again. I wonder whether I should try to have the sub fixed, sell it cheap to someone who wants to fix it, or dispose of it. What do you think?

I've listened to a bit of both. The 3C sounds OK, but there's something a little weird going on. I'm not sure I have the delay set right.

After only a few days of trying both setups, though, I think I prefer no center to the 3C. I need more time to evaluate. But...

Remember, the processing in the XDA causes a few milliseconds (7?) of latentcy... you will need to set your other speakers at a much greater distance in your processor to compensate and time-align the whole setup properly.

Here is a good article on the subject...
http://www.whirlwindusa.com/wwlatart.html

Remember, the processing in the XDA causes a few milliseconds (7?) of latentcy... you will need to set your other speakers at a much greater distance in your processor to compensate and time-align the whole setup properly.

Here is a good article on the subject...
http://www.whirlwindusa.com/wwlatart.html


"because this system has been designed for use with audio and video systems, the designers had to put a limit on how long the XdA could take to do its thing. Their limit was about 9ms, which they say shouldn’t be noticeable when synching with video."


http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/nht_xd.htm

"because this system has been designed for use with audio and video systems, the designers had to put a limit on how long the XdA could take to do its thing. Their limit was about 9ms, which they say shouldn’t be noticeable when synching with video."


http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/nht_xd.htm

That's what I'm confused about. Do I increase the distance of the Xd or of the other speakers? I was under the impression that increasing the distance of the Xd meant that the processor compensated by adding a delay to the other channels. But maybe I have that backwards?

^^ The other speakers, the Xd is already effectively further away due to the time lapse, so you have to "place" the others the same distance away to match it. I suspected you might be adding it to the Xd instead thus only "placing" them even that much further away from the others than they already were in the first place, which is why I asked in my last post were you adding the distance to the CC/surrounds, or the Xd.

Just curious, but which surround do you think better matches Xd, AZs, or Threes?

Remember, the processing in the XDA causes a few milliseconds (7?) of latentcy... you will need to set your other speakers at a much greater distance in your processor to compensate and time-align the whole setup properly.

Here is a good article on the subject...
http://www.whirlwindusa.com/wwlatart.html

Unrelated to your quote here, but what do you think of rock music on Xd in general on their own, and when compared to rock on the 3.3s (I always thought 3.3s were great rock music speakers)?

"because this system has been designed for use with audio and video systems, the designers had to put a limit on how long the XdA could take to do its thing. Their limit was about 9ms, which they say shouldn’t be noticeable when synching with video."
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/nht_xd.htm

The key phrase being "shouldn’t be noticeable when synching with video"... we are talking about matching with AUDIO from passive speakers... 9ms of delay is very noticable...
You will need to set the passive speakers at a much further distance in relation to the XD's in bass management setup to get the whole system properly time aligned.

Unrelated to your quote here, but what do you think of rock music on Xd in general on their own, and when compared to rock on the 3.3s (I always thought 3.3s were great rock music speakers)?
I still think the 3.3's paired with a BRYSTON 4BSST are on a similar level as the XD system. They are slightly different and it is impossible for me to perform a critical A/B comparison since the 3.3's are totally space dominating!

When I first hooked up the XD system I thought it was basically a wash sound wise... the main purchase motive was cosmetic as I was COMPLETELY SATISFIED with the 3.3's after owning several landmark speakers including Nautilus 801's. I believe a great speaker should sound great on ALL music... the XD's and the 3.3's succeed at this, therefore, the XD's sound fantastic on Rock & Roll. the key factor is DUAL SUBS... anyone who has this system with a single sub is doing it a huge in-justice!

I have 2 PAIR of 3.3's available if anybody wants a godlike speaker at an amazing price!

here are some pics to show the size difference...
http://members.cox.net/pkarras/nht1.jpg

I still haven't done my room correction (see back about 15 pages...), which will cost $1600 by the time I'm done. Will the Xd's reduce the need for room correction (there's a "ring" from the walls and ceiling, worst right where I sit)?

Peter

Finally got to set up my M6's and dual U1's that I bought last December. Until now they were stored in their boxes.

Both of the W1's rattle when there is bass. What could cause this? I'm using hookup "method 1" from the Evo manual. I've double checked and it seems like all cables are set up properly...

Can I really be so unlucky that both units I received are broken? Or perhaps some of you have a clue what I could have done wrong. Im using an Onkyo 805 if that matters.

Thanks for any help!

U1s don't 'rattle'. Other things rattle. Possibly the binding posts if you're not tightening them down, but U1s don't rattle. And they don't break either.

I still haven't done my room correction (see back about 15 pages...), which will cost $1600 by the time I'm done. Will the Xd's reduce the need for room correction (there's a "ring" from the walls and ceiling, worst right where I sit)?

Peter

If there's a 'ring' (high frequency) room correction doesn't fix this. It can mask it a bit, but only by taking out the offending frequencies. Room treatment does wonders though.

U1s don't 'rattle'.

But U2s do "Rattle & Hum"! (rim shot) Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the salmon! :D

Boooo! Booooo!

U1s don't 'rattle'. Other things rattle. Possibly the binding posts if you're not tightening them down, but U1s don't rattle. And they don't break either.

Maybe rattle is the wrong word then. Maybe there's a correct word but its not part of my vocabulary...The sound definately comes from the woofer and not the binding posts. The sound is as loud as the bass and perhaps sounds a bit like sparks or bass coming from a bad radio station.

First I turned all the knobs on the X1 and then also tried the different switches at the back of the X1. It was always there. Then I changed some subwoofer settings in the onkyo, now there is no bass at all. Even after I returned to the original settings. HMMMM....

The only other thing is that the internal wiring got pushed up against the woofer. This sounds like an obnoxious distortion. You can take off the back plate and slowly, carefully pull the wire taut so that it can't be against the woofer. Then put it back in and try again. If it's coming from one woofer, but not the one on the other side, that's probably it.

^^ The other speakers, the Xd is already effectively further away due to the time lapse, so you have to "place" the others the same distance away to match it. I suspected you might be adding it to the Xd instead thus only "placing" them even that much further away from the others than they already were in the first place, which is why I asked in my last post were you adding the distance to the CC/surrounds, or the Xd.

I made that mistake the first time I set it up but I had figured it out, I thought. Currently I have the Fronts (Xd) set to 16', the surrounds set to 8', and the center set to 7'. Basically the XdS are each 8' away and so I added an additional 8'. I guess I could try experimenting with 7' instead of 8'...

Just curious, but which surround do you think better matches Xd, AZs, or Threes?

Actually, I haven't really had the chance to try the Threes for surround. My AZs are wall mounted (don't have the space for stands, sadly), so I don't have the proper mounts to try out the Threes, plus the AZs are a pain to get up and down because they're threaded for OmniMount 10.0, not 20.0.

But I suppose I could move some furniture around and try the Threes out on stands before I sell them. If I get around to it I'll let you know what I think.

I thought some of you here might be interested to know that I'm selling my Classic Threes. Incidentally I'm also looking to sell a SqueezeBox 3. PM me if you're interested and we can discuss details.

I figured it would be harmless to mention this, but if it's problematic let me know and I'll remove the post.

Has anyone here heard the Definitive Technologies Mythos ST or STS and the NHT Xds? I was at Best Buy and could not believe the holographic imaging coming out of these speakers! The sound did not seem to be coming out of the speakers, but beyond their physical placement. Isn't this how the Xd has been described? The STSs just happen to be $1499 each.

I thought some of you here might be interested to know that I'm selling my Classic Threes. Incidentally I'm also looking to sell a SqueezeBox 3. PM me if you're interested and we can discuss details.

I figured it would be harmless to mention this, but if it's problematic let me know and I'll remove the post.

Did you ever try the Threes on stands with the Xds?

Has anyone here heard the Definitive Technologies Mythos ST or STS and the NHT Xds? I was at Best Buy and could not believe the holographic imaging coming out of these speakers! The sound did not seem to be coming out of the speakers, but beyond their physical placement. Isn't this how the Xd has been described?

FWIW, they have some of the best HTM measurements I've yet seen:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/607def/index2.html

but still not quite as good as NHT T5s or even Xd with the stock, single sub filter. ;)

The STSs just happen to be $1499 each.

Which, interestingly enough, makes a pair of them the exact same price as Xd on closeout from ListenUp, but Xd also includes the amplification for the upper frequency drivers as well as the subs. :D

Did you ever try the Threes on stands with the Xds?

Haven't had the chance. If I have time before I sell them I'll do it and let you know, as I'm definitely curious.

I made that mistake the first time I set it up but I had figured it out, I thought. Currently I have the Fronts (Xd) set to 16', the surrounds set to 8', and the center set to 7'. Basically the XdS are each 8' away and so I added an additional 8'. I guess I could try experimenting with 7' instead of 8'...

Take 8' away from Xd, and add it to the CC/surrounds instead, then report back.

The only other thing is that the internal wiring got pushed up against the woofer. This sounds like an obnoxious distortion. You can take off the back plate and slowly, carefully pull the wire taut so that it can't be against the woofer. Then put it back in and try again. If it's coming from one woofer, but not the one on the other side, that's probably it.

Thanks for your continued help.

I tried your trick, but the problem persists. The sound actually comes from both woofers.

I hooked up a Velodyne Sub to the Onkyo and that functions perfectly, so the problem must be in the X1 or both W1's. Unfortunately I don't have another X1 so I can't test that.

I'm quite an amateur and have no clue what coulde cause this. I have a difficult time believing that BOTH W1's could be bust.

Any other ideas?

Thanks.

Thanks for your continued help.

I tried your trick, but the problem persists. The sound actually comes from both woofers.

I hooked up a Velodyne Sub to the Onkyo and that functions perfectly, so the problem must be in the X1 or both W1's. Unfortunately I don't have another X1 so I can't test that.

I'm quite an amateur and have no clue what coulde cause this. I have a difficult time believing that BOTH W1's could be bust.

Any other ideas?

Thanks.

Something must be wrong electronically somewhere. If you have a bad U1, you have the first two of which I've ever heard. Well, one possibility. Feel around the edges of the rubber surrounds and make sure neither has come loose.

Have you reset the Onkyo's room correction if it has it? Try taking a CD player and plugging it into audio input of the X1 crossover. Lower the volume first. Then raise up the volume. An iPod would work too. Make sure it's not the Onkyo.

FWIW, they have some of the best HTM measurements I've yet seen:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/607def/index2.html

but still not quite as good as NHT T5s or even Xd with the stock, single sub filter. ;)



Which, interestingly enough, makes a pair of them the exact same price as Xd on closeout from ListenUp, but Xd also includes the amplification for the upper frequency drivers as well as the subs. :D

Thanks for the link. The Xds must be damn good, then! Making things more diffucult, the price of Xds with dual subs falls right between the ST ($2k ea) and the smaller STSs ($1.5k ea). Maybe I should view the Xds as the $6k speakers that they are.

Something must be wrong electronically somewhere. If you have a bad U1, you have the first two of which I've ever heard. Well, one possibility. Feel around the edges of the rubber surrounds and make sure neither has come loose.

Have you reset the Onkyo's room correction if it has it? Try taking a CD player and plugging it into audio input of the X1 crossover. Lower the volume first. Then raise up the volume. An iPod would work too. Make sure it's not the Onkyo.

Sorry, what are "rubber surrounds"?

Since the Velodyne didn't produce this sound, can't I conclude already that the problem is not the Onkyo? (I did try the reset of the Onkyo as well, no change.)

The rubber thingies attached to the outside of the woofer. Are you sure you have the woofers hooked up properly? What happens if you bypass the X1?

Thanks for the link. The Xds must be damn good, then! Making things more diffucult, the price of Xds with dual subs falls right between the ST ($2k ea) and the smaller STSs ($1.5k ea). Maybe I should view the Xds as the $6k speakers that they are.

While the Mythos STs are fine speakers (I certainly wouldn't them down if I were offered a pair of them), they simply aren't in the same class as Xd, and that is in no way a knock against the DTs either.

Mikko,

Connect the subwoofer output on your Onkyo directly to the RCA input on the A1 amplifier driving the U1s. In other words bypass the X1 completely. Do you get any audible distortion from the 12" woofers now? Make sure to test this with the volume turned up loud. If this fixes the distortion, then it sounds like there is something wrong with the X1. Are the X1 and U1s new?

Wow, this thread is still alive!! Been away for awhile and am now tempted to pick up a set of xd's.

I currently have a classic surround set up based around a controller and power 5. My mains are bi amped classic 4s. If I replace the classic 4's with a dual sub xd setup would it be a huge step up? If so, Im going to have to put those C4's up for sale...

expert opinions appreciated...;)

rob

Take 8' away from Xd, and add it to the CC/surrounds instead, then report back.

I'll try it. Any advice on how to test?

I'll try it. Any advice on how to test?

Does your surround processor have an "All Stereo" mode that sends the same signal to every channel? Maybe that will help bring out any inconsistencies.

Does your surround processor have an "All Stereo" mode that sends the same signal to every channel? Maybe that will help bring out any inconsistencies.

Yeah, it does, that's probably a good idea.

Anybody who still has their eye on some of the moderately priced* closeout stuff at ListenUp might want to message lubruce via eBay and ask him to list those L5s or Power2s you have your eye on. You can currently get 30% of the purchase price back in 60 days - see this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1072028).

The nice thing about it is that it shows the cashback you're getting when you go to the Buy It Now page (like this (http://mysite.verizon.net/shore/e/b.gif)) and after you buy, so you don't have to completely go on faith that all the links and cookies did what they are supposed to.

- - - - -
* Maximum $200 of cashback per session, six sessions. So if you go above $200/30% = $667 you wont be getting as much as you might. So you could buy 3 L5s at $540 shipped, and get $162 back in 60 days.

The general idea is this ... copied from eBay ...

Microsoft's live.com search site offers cash back of up to 30% for certain eBay Buy It Now purchases when you link through their site and pay with PayPal. To qualify, you must
(1) start at live.com's search page;
(2) search for another item (such as "cheap wii") to get a search results page with an eBay link showing the cashback percentage;
(3) follow their links at the top of the live.com to eBay and find your item;
(4) click on the Buy It Now button for an eBay item; and
(5) see the cashback logo and amount on the Buy It Now page.

It's easier than it sounds, and you know what to expect before you confirm the purchase. Cashback is paid after 60 days.

For owners of the NHT Xd system - do you listen to the speakers with the grille on or off?

Thanks

Thanks for your continued help.

I tried your trick, but the problem persists. The sound actually comes from both woofers.

I hooked up a Velodyne Sub to the Onkyo and that functions perfectly, so the problem must be in the X1 or both W1's. Unfortunately I don't have another X1 so I can't test that.

I'm quite an amateur and have no clue what coulde cause this. I have a difficult time believing that BOTH W1's could be bust.

Any other ideas?

Thanks.
It sounds to me like something could be overmodulating. That is, the output of one piece of electronics is too high for the input of the next piece connected to it (e.g. amp to X1, or X1 to A1).

Peter

If there's a 'ring' (high frequency) room correction doesn't fix this. It can mask it a bit, but only by taking out the offending frequencies. Room treatment does wonders though.
If your memory is good enough, you'll remember my description (from months ago) of room TREATMENT with BAD panels (http://www.rpginc.com/products/badpanel/index.htm) mixed with sound-absorbing panels. This stuff is expensive, even at wholesale from RPG. I mis-typed.

Peter

Anyone still considering the Xds, like me, can now have matching chairs!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=121254&stc=1&d=1223070715
http://www.htmarket.com/celloun.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=121255&stc=1&d=1223070715
http://www.listenup.com/NHT+Xd+Powered+Speaker+System-p-XdStereoSystem-p-50058.html

That's too funny, matching chairs! They look cool, Xd owners should go for it!

Had a party last night. People kept telling me how "cool" and "beautiful" the Xds were. I never got any compliments on my classics. Closest I got was disbelief at the size of the U1.

I love that the Xd design is unique enough to command attention. As I've said before, when you look at them you know you're seeing a luxury product. To the people that think the plum/cream finish is ugly, have any of you seen them in person?

Oh, as to the grille question, they usually stay on for safety's sake, especially when I have people around I want to discourage touching. But sometimes for listening sessions I'll take them off if I'm feeling a bit wild ;)

Add me to the Xd club. We had a lightning strike recently take out a bunch of equipment, so I'm using the situation as an opportunity to upgrade a bit. My plan is simply to focus on quality 2-channel for now and worry about surround later. I got the Xd 2.2 system setup yesterday with a new-to-me B&K Reference 20 that I picked up used. I need to decide on better source components before I can offer much in the way of meaningful commentary.

With that said, I'm quite impressed with the system so far. The boxes were well packed, with one component per box and wrapped in a nice drawstring bag. All the necessary wiring is there and setup is caveman simple. They also look much better in person than in pictures. My wife likes them better than my previous gloss black dipoles.

Here are a few quick pictures of where I started them. I'll adjust first for the imaging I like and focus later on REW measurements and custom XdA options. Looking forward to years of listening enjoyment and tweaking. Very happy so far.

http://hornskeith.com/audio/NHT%20Xd%20initial%20setup%202.JPG

http://hornskeith.com/audio/NHT%20xD%20initial%20setup.JPG

Keith

What did you pay for the ref 20?

i have one I need to sell.


thx

bob



Add me to the Xd club. We had a lightning strike recently take out a bunch of equipment, so I'm using the situation as an opportunity to upgrade a bit. My plan is simply to focus on quality 2-channel for now and worry about surround later. I got the Xd 2.2 system setup yesterday with a new-to-me B&K Reference 20 that I picked up used. I need to decide on better source components before I can offer much in the way of meaningful commentary.

With that said, I'm quite impressed with the system so far. The boxes were well packed, with one component per box and wrapped in a nice drawstring bag. All the necessary wiring is there and setup is caveman simple. They also look much better in person than in pictures. My wife likes them better than my previous gloss black dipoles.

Here are a few quick pictures of where I started them. I'll adjust first for the imaging I like and focus later on REW measurements and custom XdA options. Looking forward to years of listening enjoyment and tweaking. Very happy so far.

http://hornskeith.com/audio/NHT%20Xd%20initial%20setup%202.JPG

http://hornskeith.com/audio/NHT%20xD%20initial%20setup.JPG

Keith

Maybe it's just the lighting in the picture, but it looks like the Xd speaker color does not quite match the stands. Was your set brand new?

For owners of the NHT Xd system - do you listen to the speakers with the grille on or off?

Thanks
Grilles ON...

Keith... I found that the system sounded best with the subs directly next to the XD's... see my pictures a few pages back.
Small movements made big differences in my room...

Has anyone considered buy another Xd setup just to use the Xd as a Center channel or is that approach not worth it..... Let's assume that you already have a 2.2 Xd setup in your environment ... currently with no center and no surrounds.... do you jump on another Xd 2.1 setup for Center duty or do you take that additional 2.1 and run them in the rear without a center at all?

Thanks.
Curtis

Maybe it's just the lighting in the picture, but it looks like the Xd speaker color does not quite match the stands. Was your set brand new?

I think the camera's flash is exacerbating any color differences. They look slightly different in person, but nothing like what the 2nd picture appears to show.

Bach, I'll definitely experiment with sub placement to see what kind of changes I can expect. On a funny side note, I was intially surprised at how little deep bass response I got. Since the B&K Pre-amp is also new to me, I should have picked up on the need to check its settings more quickly than I did- the fronts were set to small, of course. Silly me.

I'm also going to try to utilize the control outputs of the B&K to turn the XdA on and off- have other folks done this? I assume it takes a standard 12V signal, and I simply need to dig around in my electronics bin to find the right connector. The audio sensitivity of the XdA is calibrated a little strangely, as mine seems to have a desire to turn itself off when listening to music that I'd consider background level. Using the trigger should hopefully address that.

Keith

Make sure to download the "Flat to 20hz" filter set... it makes a huge difference. I have the XDW's volume controls set a little bit higher than "Just Right" since they are out in the room a bit.

I found that the subs sounded tubby/boomy with a leaner upper bass the closer they got to the walls... with them out in the room as close as possible to the satellites the integration was much better since the room gain on the lowest frequencies was reduced and the overall volume could be increased which balanced out the system.

If I had extra Xd systems, I wouldn't bother using it for a center or surrounds. I'd stick them in other rooms so I could enjoy the Xd sound everywhere. It's that good :)

Has anyone considered buy another Xd setup just to use the Xd as a Center channel or is that approach not worth it..... Let's assume that you already have a 2.2 Xd setup in your environment ... currently with no center and no surrounds.... do you jump on another Xd 2.1 setup for Center duty or do you take that additional 2.1 and run them in the rear without a center at all?

Thanks.
Curtis

Wow, this thread is still alive!! Been away for awhile and am now tempted to pick up a set of xd's.

I currently have a classic surround set up based around a controller and power 5. My mains are bi amped classic 4s. If I replace the classic 4's with a dual sub xd setup would it be a huge step up? If so, Im going to have to put those C4's up for sale...

expert opinions appreciated...;)

rob

Yes, it would be a huge step up. The Fours, even when driven by a Controller/Power5 and bi-amped with an X2, simply aren't in the same class as Xd, especially a dual sub version.

For owners of the NHT Xd system - do you listen to the speakers with the grille on or off?

Thanks

On.

Had a party last night. People kept telling me how "cool" and "beautiful" the Xds were. I never got any compliments on my classics. Closest I got was disbelief at the size of the U1.

I love that the Xd design is unique enough to command attention. As I've said before, when you look at them you know you're seeing a luxury product. To the people that think the plum/cream finish is ugly, have any of you seen them in person?

Oh, as to the grille question, they usually stay on for safety's sake, especially when I have people around I want to discourage touching. But sometimes for listening sessions I'll take them off if I'm feeling a bit wild ;)

They do help to cut down on, if not eliminate entirely, the WAF, don't they? :cool:

It's pretty obvious that was a big part of their design right from the start.

Has anyone considered buy another Xd setup just to use the Xd as a Center channel or is that approach not worth it..... Let's assume that you already have a 2.2 Xd setup in your environment ... currently with no center and no surrounds.... do you jump on another Xd 2.1 setup for Center duty or do you take that additional 2.1 and run them in the rear without a center at all?

Thanks.
Curtis

FWIW, if you contact Bruce at ListenUp, he might be willing to sell 2.0 versions of Xd systems without an XdW, but since it "only" costs $600 more delivered, one just as well get the full system with the sub.

Anyone still considering the Xds, like me, can now have matching chairs!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=121254&stc=1&d=1223070715
http://www.htmarket.com/celloun.html

Good find! :)

Anybody who still has their eye on some of the moderately priced* closeout stuff at ListenUp might want to message lubruce via eBay and ask him to list those L5s or Power2s you have your eye on. You can currently get 30% of the purchase price back in 60 days - see this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1072028).

The nice thing about it is that it shows the cashback you're getting when you go to the Buy It Now page (like this (http://mysite.verizon.net/shore/e/b.gif)) and after you buy, so you don't have to completely go on faith that all the links and cookies did what they are supposed to.

- - - - -
* Maximum $200 of cashback per session, six sessions. So if you go above $200/30% = $667 you wont be getting as much as you might. So you could buy 3 L5s at $540 shipped, and get $162 back in 60 days.

The general idea is this ... copied from eBay ...

Wow! Getting a 200 watt (@ 8 Ohm) Power2 brand new in factory sealed box with full manufacturer's warranty from a fully authorized dealer for a final cost of $350 delivered is the 2 channel power amp deal of the century!

HornsKeith,

How high is your ceiling. Looks like it's REALLY high...

Peter

I need to decide on better source components before I can offer much in the way of meaningful commentary.

With that said, I'm quite impressed with the system so far. The boxes were well packed, with one component per box and wrapped in a nice drawstring bag. All the necessary wiring is there and setup is caveman simple. They also look much better in person than in pictures. My wife likes them better than my previous gloss black dipoles.

Keith

Congrats. FWIW, keep in mind, in the absolutly glowing $ensible $ound Xd review, the reviewer only used a cheap Onkyo universal DVD player as his main source, and the pre-outs of a relatively cheap Yamaha integrated amp as the pre-amp.

He only later used a higher up Pioneer Elite AVR to insert room correction/equilization:

http://nhthifi.com/current/press/reviews/new/SSXdReview.pdf

BTW, is there anybody out there who actually has a set of the M-80/S-80 Xds?

Or even Verve for that matter?

They do help to cut down on, if not eliminate entirely, the WAF, don't they? :cool:

It's pretty obvious that was a big part of their design right from the start.

Indeed. Although it seemed like the ADF (audiophile desire factor) might have fallen as a direct result.

Interestingly, the unsolicited comments did come mostly from girls. My GF even described the subwoofer as "sexy". They definitely nailed the WAF. Thankfully I love the look too.

BTW, is there anybody out there who actually has a set of the M-80/S-80 Xds?

Or even Verve for that matter?

I'm curious about that as well. John at least heard the Verve. I tried to get some people to check out the Verve, but they're just too pricey for the target audience, I think.

^^^ I can't recall not even one person other than Jack on this whole thread who mentioned having Verve.

Congrats. FWIW, keep in mind, in the absolutly glowing $ensible $ound Xd review, the reviewer only used a cheap Onkyo universal DVD player as his main source, and the pre-outs of a relatively cheap Yamaha integrated amp as the pre-amp.

He only later used a higher up Pioneer Elite AVR to insert room correction/equilization:

http://nhthifi.com/current/press/reviews/new/SSXdReview.pdf

Kinda reinforces the thought that you get more out of spending on speakers than electronics or high-end cabling which have a much smaller effect on overall sound quality in comparison.

^^^ Yep, and that has been exactly my sentiments for quite some time now. ;)

Wow, this thread is still alive!! Been away for awhile and am now tempted to pick up a set of xd's.

I currently have a classic surround set up based around a controller and power 5. My mains are bi amped classic 4s. If I replace the classic 4's with a dual sub xd setup would it be a huge step up? If so, Im going to have to put those C4's up for sale...

expert opinions appreciated...;)

rob

Yea we keep hoping someone from NHT will read and acquires all the knowledge they need to release the next NHT Speaker that everyone wants.
Allen

P.S. Hint, Hint

just picked up an power2 from listenup(on ebay) for 500-20%MS live discount.
seem good price...if anyone interesting should do it before the discount ends

I'm also going to try to utilize the control outputs of the B&K to turn the XdA on and off- have other folks done this? I assume it takes a standard 12V signal, and I simply need to dig around in my electronics bin to find the right connector.

I did this last night- works perfectly. Now the XdA is slaved to my B&K Pre-amp for on/off, so no worries about it going into standby when I'd rather it stay on.

Make sure to download the "Flat to 20hz" filter set... it makes a huge difference. I have the XDW's volume controls set a little bit higher than "Just Right" since they are out in the room a bit.

I found that the subs sounded tubby/boomy with a leaner upper bass the closer they got to the walls... with them out in the room as close as possible to the satellites the integration was much better since the room gain on the lowest frequencies was reduced and the overall volume could be increased which balanced out the system.

Thanks for the tips. I did immediately switch to the 135 Hz crossover / flat to 20 Hz filter. Very nice. I also spent some time on satellite and sub placement the last two evenings. Compared to the pictures I posted, I ended up with the satellites slightly closer together with about the same amount of toe-in (pointed almost directly at the sweet spot). For the subs, they ended up slightly farther out into the room. The dials are still set at Just Right, and I'll probably rely more on later measurements to adjust those vs. my ears.

HornsKeith,

How high is your ceiling. Looks like it's REALLY high...

Peter

12 feet, I believe. I probably just missed getting the ceiling in the picture.

Congrats. FWIW, keep in mind, in the absolutly glowing $ensible $ound Xd review, the reviewer only used a cheap Onkyo universal DVD player as his main source, and the pre-outs of a relatively cheap Yamaha integrated amp as the pre-amp.


I think I've got him beat. The lightning wiped out my source components, and what was left in the closet was.... a Go Video DVD/VCR combo that my wife brought to the relationship. I ordered an Oppo 980 yesterday to fill the gap while I consider the longer term plan. It'll be interesting to compare the two.

Keith

just picked up an power2 from listenup(on ebay) for 500-20%MS live discount.
seem good price...if anyone interesting should do it before the discount ends

Did they lower it from 30% to 20%? That's still not bad though.

I think I've got him beat. The lightning wiped out my source components, and what was left in the closet was.... a Go Video DVD/VCR combo that my wife brought to the relationship. I ordered an Oppo 980 yesterday to fill the gap while I consider the longer term plan. It'll be interesting to compare the two.

Keith

And it still sounds better than a pair of Fours driven with a Controller/Power5/X2/A1s and any well respected CD player. ;)

For yet another example, look at it like this, a $3600 dual sub Xd system with a $200 CDP and a $200 used pre-amp will trump a pair of $1800 Salk SongTowers with $2200 worth of new electronics of anyone's choice to go with them.

And on and on and on ... the example possibilities like these are virtually limitless.

Did they lower it from 30% to 20%? That's still not bad though.

yep, now I need a pre-amp :eek:

listenup should list the L5 on the bay as well before drop back to 8%...

Edit: 30% is back now :( good for others

There's a Controller on eBay right now with the seller claiming that it has been upgraded to HDMI 1.3. I called NHT, as I would be all over this, and the gentleman I spoke to said that they have not released a 1.3 update so beware!

And it still sounds better than a pair of Fours driven with a Controller/Power5/X2/A1s and any well respected CD player. ;)

For yet another example, look at it like this, a $3600 dual sub Xd system with a $200 CDP and a $200 used pre-amp will trump a pair of $1800 Salk SongTowers with $2200 worth of new electronics of anyone's choice to go with them.

And on and on and on ... the example possibilities like these are virtually limitless.


Nuance, you out there? Care to comment...?

Just placed my XD order. Found it by accident when I searched for active speakers, found very few and read the glowing XD reviews (Stereophile, Sound & Vision, Soundstage). When I saw the close out price, it became a no-brainer. After reading this thread I did not want to risk missing out on the deal. This will be for a dedicated 2 channel set-up. I have a separate home theater set-up using wall mounted Maggies (MC1 for mains, MMGWs for center & surrounds). I have a "best bang for the buck" philosophy for my audio stuff and I'm hopeful that the XD will not disappoint.

So I didn't mention that my Xd incurred what I think is a bit of shipping damage (one speaker stand base and a kind of "buckle" in the sub's finish). I contacted ListenUp, who passed my information to Chris Byrne, who called me personally. The damaged bits are being shipped to me, then I ship the old ones back. Great service! Chris was very nice and helpful, and I enjoyed talking to him briefly.

Just placed my XD order. Found it by accident when I searched for active speakers, found very few and read the glowing XD reviews (Stereophile, Sound & Vision, Soundstage). When I saw the close out price, it became a no-brainer. After reading this thread I did not want to risk missing out on the deal. This will be for a dedicated 2 channel set-up. I have a separate home theater set-up using wall mounted Maggies (MC1 for mains, MMGWs for center & surrounds). I have a "best bang for the buck" philosophy for my audio stuff and I'm hopeful that the XD will not disappoint.

You won't be disappointed.

Nuance, you out there? Care to comment...?

The Salk speaker most comparable to Xd in performance (although certainly not in current price, even when amplification isn't factored in) is the top of the line, active, DEQXed Veracity HT3a:

http://www.salksound.com/ht3a.shtml

There is someone who has posted here on this thread who has them both. ;)

You won't be disappointed.

+1. Congrats ngepoy.

So I didn't mention that my Xd incurred what I think is a bit of shipping damage (one speaker stand base and a kind of "buckle" in the sub's finish. I contacted ListenUp, who passed my information to Chris Byrne, who called me personally. The damaged bits are being shipped to me, then I ship the old ones back. Great service! Chris was very nice and helpful, and I enjoyed talking to him briefly.

It's encouraging to see that the top notch customer service NHT has always had is still there.

+1. Congrats ngepoy.

Thanks. My plan is to hook up a Sonus to the XD as the main source. Any thoughts/suggestions on this type of setup will be appreciated.

Thanks. My plan is to hook up a Sonus to the XD as the main source. Any thoughts/suggestions on this type of setup will be appreciated.

Are you hooking up the Sonos directly and using it as a pre-amp, or separate pre-amp? Sonos built-in DAC or external?

Are you hooking up the Sonos directly and using it as a pre-amp, or separate pre-amp? Sonos built-in DAC or external?Slippery slope ahead!!!

ngepoy, stop while you still can, or you'll spend 50% more to get 5% more performance. Or at least stop and look into the abyss a while before jumping in ...

Slippery slope ahead!!!

ngepoy, stop while you still can, or you'll spend 50% more to get 5% more performance. Or at least stop and look into the abyss a while before jumping in ...

I'm not sure what you mean. I understand that there are compromises in any set up. I think the multiroom convenience that a Sonos system provides is worth it. I can always add a dedicated quality source if I want to listen critically. I am excited at the prospect of having the XD as the main component to build a very good system around.

Are you hooking up the Sonos directly and using it as a pre-amp, or separate pre-amp? Sonos built-in DAC or external?

Initially I will hook it up directly. My goal is to find a preamp with a good built in DAC but will consider an external DAC. I just started looking around and I am open to suggestions. Of course, my underlying philosophy is best bang for the buck.

I ran my Xd straight from a Sonos box and it was great. Best it could be? Maybe not, but I was too busy enjoying the sound and I'd still have put it up against just about anything under $50K

Slippery slope ahead!!!

ngepoy, stop while you still can, or you'll spend 50% more to get 5% more performance. Or at least stop and look into the abyss a while before jumping in ...

Hey, I wasn't advocating any particular course of action. Just curious. :)

Initially I will hook it up directly. My goal is to find a preamp with a good built in DAC but will consider an external DAC. I just started looking around and I am open to suggestions. Of course, my underlying philosophy is best bang for the buck.

For whatever reason I find the idea of going straight from source to amp fascinating. If only the Xd had a digital input and a volume control... I know that idea has been thrown about before, but that would be a nice minimalist system. I think that's the best way to gauge the absolute upper bound of Xd performance. You're going from D->A->D->A to just D->A, and in doing so you cut out the first DAC in the chain (either the Sonos one, or one in your pre-pro, or a stand-alone one), and eliminate the redundant analog stage. And you place the volume control after the last D->A conversion. Pretty hot.

Yeah, you know, another feature I fought to have included so it would be successful.........

Yeah, you know, another feature I fought to have included so it would be successful.........

I know. It's a real shame. It would be so elegant...

BTW, is there anybody out there who actually has a set of the M-80/S-80 Xds?

Or even Verve for that matter?


I have a set of Verves in my living room. Three larges in front, two smalls as surrounds and a Classic Twelve. I think they're OK, pretty much like Zeros to my ears (which have been demolished by drumming). Not exactly like the 2 x Fours, 3C and 2 x Threes I used to have there, but much easier to wipe the dust, eh?

Mika

I'm glad this forum has come back to life.

Peter

How well matched would the L5s be with a pair of C4s?

I have the C4s now and am moving into a new house. The LCD will be placed above a fireplace so it's not going to be practical to use the C3C that I currently have since it's a bit big to wall-mount it. The L5s look a good option for center and surrounds.

IF not, are there any other recommendations I could use?

Photo taken during house-inspection. Not moved in yet...

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2872/livingroomow2.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=livingroomow2.jpg)

It seems like everything NHT is on sale at One Call, Audio Advisor, ListenUp, maybe elsewhere. ListenUp's site (http://www.listenup.com) says 25% off until 1/1/09. Anybody have any idea what's going on?

How well matched would the L5s be with a pair of C4s?

Not at all, it is a severe mismatch, both from a driver and phase standpoint.

I have the C4s now and am moving into a new house. The LCD will be placed above a fireplace so it's not going to be practical to use the C3C that I currently have since it's a bit big to wall-mount it. The L5s look a good option for center and surrounds.

IF not, are there any other recommendations I could use?

As cheap as the L5s are from ListenUp right now, and if you have to do wall mounts, why not just pick up five L5s for surround and have the Fours in a separate, dedicated 2 channel rig, especially if you already have a sub to use with the L5s?

Otherwise, if you can't do any of the in-walls that match the Classic series, maybe a wall mounted AZ might be your best option as a CC? :confused:

http://nhthifi.com/current/index1.html

Seems to me that Congress has taken over and is running NHT.

Rather scary. Obviously they're trying to clear out inventory... but is it because there's an excess out there? Or that they're desperately in need of cash? It's not like they're preparing to introduce new product... Strange.

Wow! Getting a 200 watt (@ 8 Ohm) Power2 brand new in factory sealed box with full manufacturer's warranty from a fully authorized dealer for a final cost of $350 delivered is the 2 channel power amp deal of the century!

Yep, got one too.
Finally a fair price for a quality amp. :)

Got my Xd on Thursday. Hooked up my really old NAD integrated amp & an $80 DVD player initially & got a horrible hum so gave up on that set up.

Hooked up an ipod touch directly fired up some Amos Lee and it was very good. Not quite to the level as the Magnepan MC1 but considering its coming straight from the ipod I was very impressed.

I just preordered a Cambridge Audio DACMagic and once that comes in I will hook up my Airport express via Toslink to it & control the library with the ipod touch.

The base of the stands had damage to it. The corner of one was crushed & the other had a hairline crack on it. I called Listenup and said they will replacements. The damage are not visible but I am very satisfied with their response. So far so good.

Ron

Rather scary. Obviously they're trying to clear out inventory... but is it because there's an excess out there? Or that they're desperately in need of cash? It's not like they're preparing to introduce new product... Strange.

Hopefully, this isn't the beginning of the end. :(

Yep, got one too.
Finally a fair price for a quality amp. :)

It, like all of these previous NHT closeout deals on Evos, SD Classics, Xd, and the other electronics, is a no-brainer.

Got my Xd on Thursday. Hooked up my really old NAD integrated amp & an $80 DVD player initially & got a horrible hum so gave up on that set up.

Hooked up an ipod touch directly fired up some Amos Lee and it was very good. Not quite to the level as the Magnepan MC1 but considering its coming straight from the ipod I was very impressed.

I just preordered a Cambridge Audio DACMagic and once that comes in I will hook up my Airport express via Toslink to it & control the library with the ipod touch.

Ron

I highly recomend eventually getting a pre-amp with fully balanced XLR outputs for, among other things, the following reason:

NHT's Jack Hidley thought the ground loop came from cable TV or a satellite receiver, but neither was the case because I'd disconnected both. However, he did say that "the PowerPhysics switching amplifiers have an H bridge output. The consequence of this is that there will be half of the rail voltage (70VDC) on the plus and minus speaker outputs of the XdA all the time." I suppose that might make the Xd more sensitive than other systems to the leakage of rail-borne noise.

From:

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1105nht/

And:

I talked to NHT’s Jack Hidley, and he also felt the buzz was a ground-loop problem, and that if I could switch to balanced connection (my BC3000 only has single-ended outs) that would help.

...

As you may remember, when you first mentioned the buzz from the Xd system, I suggested that you try using the balanced inputs on the XdA processor/amplifier because the problem was probably rooted in the high harmonics from a capacitively coupled ground loop. This is a common problem with unbalanced high-end-audio components, and we were in fact able to defeat this problem by switching preamplifiers.

From:

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/nht_xd.htm

I highly recomend eventually getting a pre-amp with fully balanced XLR outputs for, among other things, the following reason:



From:

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1105nht/

And:



From:

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/nht_xd.htm

Agreed. I'm actually thinking of getting a tube preamp but it will be down the line.

HOLY F'N MAJOR UPGRADE BATMAN...

I just got a PS Audio Trio Preamplifier with "Gain Cell" technology... real simple... 3 inputs and a Gain control...

Hooked up my SA-11S1 to the Balanced Ins... Balanced Outs to the XDA...

This is one of the best products I have ever purchased... even the wife noticed a dramatic difference... the music just flows with a great sense of ease and the timbre is so full and natural sounding... simply jaw dropping sound!

Wow, I wonder if they have a glut of inventory that they want to clear prior to the end of the year...too bad the evolution line still isn't around.

Agreed. I'm actually thinking of getting a tube preamp but it will be down the line.

FWIW, IMO, Xd benefits more from a "cleaner" pre-amp than it does from a "warmer" one. As always though, YMMV.

HOLY F'N MAJOR UPGRADE BATMAN...

I just got a PS Audio Trio Preamplifier with "Gain Cell" technology... real simple... 3 inputs and a Gain control...

Hooked up my SA-11S1 to the Balanced Ins... Balanced Outs to the XDA...

This is one of the best products I have ever purchased... even the wife noticed a dramatic difference... the music just flows with a great sense of ease and the timbre is so full and natural sounding... simply jaw dropping sound!

Thanks for the input. I have to admit that one had me curious as well. It looks to me like that model, as well as the higher up PS Audio GCP-200, just possibly may be the absolute best pre-amps on the market for Xd as far as addressing and minimizing the XdA's imperfection issues.

GCP-200:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PSGCP200

TRIO:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PSTRP200

FWIW, IMO, Xd benefits more from a "cleaner" pre-amp than it does from a "warmer" one. As always though, YMMV.

Thanks for the input. I have no experience w/ tubes so I am curious how it will sound. However, if I do get a tube preamp it will be a lot later. I plan to use the Xd with the external DAC for a while without a preamp. I do have an Outlaw 990 in my HT system that I plan to try out with the Xd. I just do not want to hassle with taking it out and unhooking everything at this time.

That's a ground loop problem, right? Your Xd should have come with 2 RCA->XLR cables. Use those between the NAD and the XdA. Should take care of any ground loops. Or so said the photocopied sheet in the box.

Got my Xd on Thursday. Hooked up my really old NAD integrated amp & an $80 DVD player initially & got a horrible hum so gave up on that set up.

Ngepoy,

Definitely use the supplied RCA to XLR cables to connect your preamp to the XdA. If the cables aren't long enough, don't substitute any other cables and don't extend the RCA end. Just extend the XLR end with any standard XLR to XLR shielded cable.

Interesting. I don't believe my Xd speakers came with cables that were XLR on one end and RCA on the other. Can that cable be ordered from somewhere?

I had to provide my own RCA cable from the XdA to my pre-amp. :(

I get an occasional hum for a while after turning off my pre-amp system and leaving the XdA on.

Thanks.

Interesting. I don't believe my Xd speakers came with cables that were XLR on one end and RCA on the other. Can that cable be ordered from somewhere?

I had to provide my own RCA cable from the XdA to my pre-amp. :(

I get an occasional hum for a while after turning off my pre-amp system and leaving the XdA on.

Thanks.

they're a relatively recent addition, I think. Not mentioned in the manual, just a single sheet added to the box. Seems like the reviewers didn't have the adapters either--I seem to recall Kal using a ground cheater.

If you need them I'm sure you could call NHT and get them to send you a pair.

That's a ground loop problem, right? Your Xd should have come with 2 RCA->XLR cables. Use those between the NAD and the XdA. Should take care of any ground loops. Or so said the photocopied sheet in the box.
I did use the XLR cables and got the hum and I thought it was the NAD. I will try to hook up the NAD again using the RCA connections only & see if I still get a hum.

No hum using RCAs connected directly to ipod. When I used the XLR cables w/ RCA - 1/8 plug adapter going into ipod, got the hum. So not sure what is going on with it right now. Sent an e-mail to Listen up with the issue.

I did use the XLR cables and got the hum and I thought it was the NAD. I will try to hook up the NAD again using the RCA connections only & see if I still get a hum.

No hum using RCAs connected directly to ipod. When I used the XLR cables w/ RCA - 1/8 plug adapter going into ipod, got the hum. So not sure what is going on with it right now. Sent an e-mail to Listen up with the issue.

That's pretty strange. Is the frequency/pitch right for it to be a ground loop, or do you think it's something else?

I did use the XLR cables and got the hum and I thought it was the NAD. I will try to hook up the NAD again using the RCA connections only & see if I still get a hum.

No hum using RCAs connected directly to ipod. When I used the XLR cables w/ RCA - 1/8 plug adapter going into ipod, got the hum. So not sure what is going on with it right now. Sent an e-mail to Listen up with the issue.

Which NAD model is it?

Interesting. I don't believe my Xd speakers came with cables that were XLR on one end and RCA on the other. Can that cable be ordered from somewhere?

Mine (purchased over 2 years ago) did not come with any, either. Jack, are there any that we can substitute?

Which NAD model is it?
Its an NAD 3130, had it almost 20 years now and it is still rockin'. Hooked it up to the Xd using RCAs & no hum, so its not the NAD.

Chris of NHT called & said its the XLR cables causing the hum & to toss it. He basically said it should not have been included.

Whether you use the supplied RCA to XLR cables or use standard RCA to RCA cables to connect to the XdA depends on the design of the other equipment in your system and everything else attached to the system (cable TV, satellite, etc). It is far to complicated to try and explain why this is so in this thread.

In most cases (99%), the system will have the least noise with the supplied RCA to XLR cables. If there is noticable hum or buzz using these cables, try using a standard RCA to RCA cable. In this case, it was the correct solution.

I seriously doubt that Chris said the inclusion of the RCA to XLR cables with Xd was a mistake. There must be some miscommunication going on there.

Tim,

If you call NHT, I'm fairly sure they can send you some RCA to XLR cables. Virtually all of these cables that are made commerically are built incorrectly. If you do a search for NeoDan here on AVS forums, I know that he was building and selling some that were built correctly.

How well does the Evolution U2 sub system perform?

How well does the Evolution U2 sub system perform?

Excellent sub. A unique combo of accuracy, reliability, output, modularity. One of NHT's best products ever. Smart for them to bring it back if that's the news I heard. Well, maybe like they just got a dose of reality from the dealers on that one.

Excellent sub. A unique combo of accuracy, reliability, output, modularity. One of NHT's best products ever. Smart for them to bring it back if that's the news I heard. Well, maybe like they just got a dose of reality from the dealers on that one.


Thanks

This question's kinda out of left field. What do I use to clean the piano finish of Threes/3C/SB2s? I've heard Windex, but what about Pledge?

I'd probably go by a piano store or musical instrument store and use what they're using.

One of the best polishes made for high gloss instruments (especially piano):

Cory Super High-Gloss Piano Polish

Some guitar polishes also work very well (light and do not build up with each application).

Ray

I remember first opening the box to the 3C and being hit with the aroma of a fine piano finish, so I know the same stuff that works on a piano will probably work fine. Thanks!

For whatever reason I find the idea of going straight from source to amp fascinating. If only the Xd had a digital input and a volume control... I know that idea has been thrown about before, but that would be a nice minimalist system. I think that's the best way to gauge the absolute upper bound of Xd performance. You're going from D->A->D->A to just D->A, and in doing so you cut out the first DAC in the chain (either the Sonos one, or one in your pre-pro, or a stand-alone one), and eliminate the redundant analog stage. And you place the volume control after the last D->A conversion. Pretty hot.

I am leaning towards this approach. I am waiting for the new Cambridge Audio DAC Magic which has plenty of inputs to handle the DAC from the source. I'm thinking of placing an NHT PVC Pro between the Xd and the DAC to handle the volume control. Anyone else done this? Any thoughts?

Interestingly, the new DEQX HDP3 is like an XdA on steroids, with 4 better amps, volume control, digital inputs and WAY lower noise floor. But it's a good $6K just for that one piece.

Interestingly, the new DEQX HDP3 is like an XdA on steroids, with 4 better amps, volume control, digital inputs and WAY lower noise floor. But it's a good $6K just for that one piece.

Is that DEQX unit a simple drop-in replacement for the XdA? I'm still kind of hazy on how it all works. Otherwise, for $6k, you could get two more Xds for 5.1!

How well does the Evolution U2 sub system perform?

I had the U1, rather than the U2, but I think my experience applies.

Fantastic sub. Particularly if you get it integrated properly. Way better than the subs they sell with the Classic series, I think.

This question's kinda out of left field. What do I use to clean the piano finish of Threes/3C/SB2s? I've heard Windex, but what about Pledge?

I've never had anything on any of my glossy NHT speakers that didn't come out with a clean soft cloth and some vigorous elbow grease.