P.S. Don't use pledge. Just leaves an ugly film on the surface. Once won't do any permanent damage but I wouldn't risk it.

I am leaning towards this approach. I am waiting for the new Cambridge Audio DAC Magic which has plenty of inputs to handle the DAC from the source. I'm thinking of placing an NHT PVC Pro between the Xd and the DAC to handle the volume control. Anyone else done this? Any thoughts?

I've had my eye on the Benchmark DAC1 for a while. I think you can use its volume control with its analog outputs, but it may just be for the built-in headphone amp.

The PVC sure is a nice versatile piece of gear, though.

Is that DEQX unit a simple drop-in replacement for the XdA? I'm still kind of hazy on how it all works. Otherwise, for $6k, you could get two more Xds for 5.1!

if it is compatible with the Xd filters, I'd guess so. Otherwise you'd have to have your own measurements for EQ/crossover.

So NHT sent me a new XdW to replace the one that was damaged in shipping. And I have not yet made arrangements to have the old one picked up.

Thus I find myself, temporarily, in possession if two subs. I figure I'll try it out this weekend and see what all the fuss is about.

Is it simple enough to change out the features that I should try the 2 dual sub ones out?anybody with a Mac try updating filters via virtualized Windows in Parallels?

I cannot be more satisfied with the Xd system. Since I got the system last week, I've just been using my ipod as the main source, it was good but ....

Tonight, I hooked up my Sony DVPS7000 to a NAD 3130 as the preamp. It is not the setup I will end up with, just using the components I've had over the years. Just finished listening to Dark Side of the Moon and all I can say is wow!!!! The equipment just vanished and all there is was the music. It was immersive and very satisfying.

This is what I want and I am very happy to have found this system. I will be adding components to it in the coming months to get the most out of the system based on my budget. However, it is comforting to know that the Xd, as it is right now, is already quite satisfying. The Xd definitely met my needs of having a dedicated quality 2 channel system for enjoying music.

If you are in the fence about this system, you won't be disappointed. I certainly am not. I would have paid the full price. It is a bonus that I was able to get it for 1/2.

I cannot be more satisfied with the Xd system. Since I got the system last week, I've just been using my ipod as the main source, it was good but ....

Tonight, I hooked up my Sony DVPS7000 to a NAD 3130 as the preamp. It is not the setup I will end up with, just using the components I've had over the years. Just finished listening to Dark Side of the Moon and all I can say is wow!!!! The equipment just vanished and all there is was the music. It was immersive and very satisfying.

This is what I want and I am very happy to have found this system. I will be adding components to it in the coming months to get the most out of the system based on my budget. However, it is comforting to know that the Xd, as it is right now, is already quite satisfying. The Xd definitely met my needs of having a dedicated quality 2 channel system for enjoying music.

If you are in the fence about this system, you won't be disappointed. I certainly am not. I would have paid the full price. It is a bonus that I was able to get it for 1/2.

Don't these speakers only go down to 110hz?
The sub fills in at anything below 110hz.
How can that be good for music?
HT maybe... but music?

Don't these speakers only go down to 110hz?
The sub fills in at anything below 110hz.
How can that be good for music?
HT maybe... but music?

What makes you think a sub can't handle musical content at 110 Hz and below?

The sub is very high quality. The only possible problem with frequencies below 110 Hz being sent to the sub is localization. It's not something that's bothered me or that I've even noticed. For those that do have a problem with it, the solution is simple and increases the current system price by only 20%: buy a second sub.

The Xd filters are proprietary to the XdA. They can't be loaded into any of the DEQX branded hardware. If you used DEQX branded hardware with the Xd speakers, you would have to build your own filter sets through measurements.

I have a customer using DEQX hardware with his Xds and he prefers the sound, so it's not a bad option if, in the future, an XdA goes TU and can't be serviced.

Spectrumdx, there's no problem with the speakers only going to 110Hz. I've put Xds up against a lot of heavyweight speakers in the $10-$25K range (Meridians, Thiels, B&Ws, Genesis) and the Xds kicked their ass in no uncertain terms.

Maybe if Jack were to design a new 3-way tower speaker, I could get it into production and it could be teamed up with the new DEQX box.............

P.S. Don't use pledge. Just leaves an ugly film on the surface. Once won't do any permanent damage but I wouldn't risk it.

So is Windex safe? I just don't want any swirl marks.

So is Windex safe? I just don't want any swirl marks.

I haven't tried it. I just use a dry cloth; I've never run into any sort of smudge or smear that wouldn't come out that way. Actually, best thing I've found is those swifter cloths, since they do a nice job of pulling all the dust off.

Maybe if Jack were to design a new 3-way tower speaker, I could get it into production and it could be teamed up with the new DEQX box.............

Makes me wonder how good a 2nd generation Xd system would have been!

Yep!

What makes you think a sub can't handle musical content at 110 Hz and below?

The sub is very high quality. The only possible problem with frequencies below 110 Hz being sent to the sub is localization. It's not something that's bothered me or that I've even noticed. For those that do have a problem with it, the solution is simple and increases the current system price by only 20%: buy a second sub.

I guess I expected a totally different configuration for a $6k "stereophile" system.
... but if it works for you, then all is well. :)

I guess I expected a totally different configuration for a $6k "stereophile" system.
... but if it works for you, then all is well. :)

The fact that it isn't a totally different configuration probably contributed to it being ignored by many audio hobbyists. Also, it's worth noting that is is now a $3k system now anyway, and one that includes amplification in the price.

Regardless, with the exception of the potential bass localization issue, there is nothing about the sub/sat design that keeps it from being superior to or competitive with stuff that costs an order of magnitude more money.

Unless you have some specific criticism of the design that you'd like to share with us other than that it's not what you expect?

This Stereophile review (http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1105nht/) mentions the 110Hz x-over point and it was not an issue at all.

While the crossover slope between the XdS and XdW may be a very steep 48dB/octave at 110Hz, there is still significant signal overlap between the woofer and satellites; the positioning of the woofer is important. A lower frequency, of course, would compromise the power-handling limits of the XdS's 5.25" driver. I found that moving the XdW forward so that it was the same distance from the listener as the satellites filled in the integrated response, as confirmed by instrument and ear.

Because the Xd's performance is competitive at the highest levels, anyone interested in high-quality music reproduction must hear it.

The system that really turned me on to the idea of 'high-end' was a sub/sat system from Infinity call Modulus. It kicked the ass of every tower in the store, making everything else seem like mid-fi. It also failed in the market.

Audiophiles are too caught up in 'how it should be' than in 'whatever works', let alone science. I pushed for a small tower with dual 8" drivers or a bigger 4-way rather than the sub/sat. The good thing about audiophiles is that if you design to what they expect, they reflexively buy, even if it sounds like crap, is overpriced and engineered poorly.

Don't these speakers only go down to 110hz?
The sub fills in at anything below 110hz.
How can that be good for music?
HT maybe... but music?

First off, the Xd is not really a sat/sub system in the traditional sense. It should be viewed more as a three-way speaker system split into multiple enclosures. As far as the 110hz crossover point is concerned, take a look at the link below.

http://theprofessionalanswer.com/?p=6

How well matched would the L5s be with a pair of C4s?

I have the C4s now and am moving into a new house. The LCD will be placed above a fireplace so it's not going to be practical to use the C3C that I currently have since it's a bit big to wall-mount it. The L5s look a good option for center and surrounds.

IF not, are there any other recommendations I could use?

Photo taken during house-inspection. Not moved in yet...

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2872/livingroomow2.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=livingroomow2.jpg)How about IW4's. I've heard (here) that they use identical (nearly identical?) drivers to the C3.

Peter

If I had extra Xd systems, I wouldn't bother using it for a center or surrounds. I'd stick them in other rooms so I could enjoy the Xd sound everywhere. It's that good :)

This, by the way, is essentially what I've done. I initially had a plan to run three XdS's across the front, one middle rear, and add a pair of something from the Classic line to fill out the rest of a 6.2 system. Frankly, though, the stereo configuration is doing a heck of a job meeting my needs for now, so I've shared the Xd goodness with my bedroom's sitting area (sans sub):

http://hornskeith.com/audio/Xd%20in%20sitting%20room.JPG

The source will probably become something like a Squeezebox playing FLAC material down the line, but for now I've got an iPod nano filling in.

I'm going to see about tapping the Audio Consulting Services (http://audioconsultingservices.com/) folks for ideas on a different high pass filter, since I'm running this little setup without an XdW. I wouldn't mind an equally steep high pass at 60 or 70 Hz (instead of 110 Hz) since big dynamics really aren't a priority here. That's as long as such a filter didn't mess with some other aspect of the XdS's performance, of course. I'll report back.

Keith

This, by the way, is essentially what I've done. I initially had a plan to run three XdS's across the front, one middle rear, and add a pair of something from the Classic line to fill out the rest of a 6.2 system. Frankly, though, the stereo configuration is doing a heck of a job meeting my needs for now, so I've shared the Xd goodness with my bedroom's sitting area (sans sub):

The source will probably become something like a Squeezebox playing FLAC material down the line, but for now I've got an iPod nano filling in.

I'm going to see about tapping the Audio Consulting Services (http://audioconsultingservices.com/) folks for ideas on a different high pass filter, since I'm running this little setup without an XdW. I wouldn't mind an equally steep high pass at 60 or 70 Hz (instead of 110 Hz) since big dynamics really aren't a priority here. That's as long as such a filter didn't mess with some other aspect of the XdS's performance, of course. I'll report back.

Keith

Why not just grab an extra XdW while they're available and cheap?

I cannot be more satisfied with the Xd system. Since I got the system last week, I've just been using my ipod as the main source, it was good but ....

Tonight, I hooked up my Sony DVPS7000 to a NAD 3130 as the preamp. It is not the setup I will end up with, just using the components I've had over the years. Just finished listening to Dark Side of the Moon and all I can say is wow!!!! The equipment just vanished and all there is was the music. It was immersive and very satisfying.

This is what I want and I am very happy to have found this system. I will be adding components to it in the coming months to get the most out of the system based on my budget. However, it is comforting to know that the Xd, as it is right now, is already quite satisfying. The Xd definitely met my needs of having a dedicated quality 2 channel system for enjoying music.

If you are in the fence about this system, you won't be disappointed. I certainly am not. I would have paid the full price. It is a bonus that I was able to get it for 1/2.



While Xd will still sound fantastic without really having higher end sources and/or pre-amps, I've found that I can actually hear bigger differences between various sources and pre-amps when switching/changing between them more clearly on Xd much more so than any other speaker I've ever had.

IOW, it actually pays off to invest in better pre-amps, CD players, turntables, etc. for them.

How well does the Evolution U2 sub system perform?

I had the U1, rather than the U2, but I think my experience applies.

Fantastic sub. Particularly if you get it integrated properly. Way better than the subs they sell with the Classic series, I think.

Plus one. It is so easy to integrate them into your system/room with the X1 too. Plus, you can always add another A1 for true stereo bass if you so choose and/or get another pair of W2s for the 20 Hz mod to the X1 as well.

So much versatility and flexibility with them that it's incredible.

I hope they do bring them back, but maybe with a gloss black finish this time.

Why not just grab an extra XdW while they're available and cheap?

Plus one again. $600 for a XdW is a steal in subwoofer value. It's too bad they can't be used without an XdA to go with other speakers/systems.

So NHT sent me a new XdW to replace the one that was damaged in shipping. And I have not yet made arrangements to have the old one picked up.

Thus I find myself, temporarily, in possession if two subs. I figure I'll try it out this weekend and see what all the fuss is about.

Is it simple enough to change out the features that I should try the 2 dual sub ones out?anybody with a Mac try updating filters via virtualized Windows in Parallels?

FWIW, you can still use dual XdWs with the stock filter.

Why not just grab an extra XdW while they're available and cheap?

Because I strongly prefer sleeping in my master bedroom vs. on the couch. :D

Yes, all things being possible, it'd be nice to pick up a 3rd XdW for that location, and $600 is a steal for what you get. But the musical content played through the bedroom system is usually quiet classical or some sleepy Dan Gibson-style stuff. Heck, if I used the autodetect turn-on that the XdW ships with, it'd probably stay in Standby most of the time anyway.

Keith

FWIW, you can still use dual XdWs with the stock filter.

Yes, I'll try that if nothing else.

While Xd will still sound fantastic without really having higher end sources and/or pre-amps, I've found that I can actually hear bigger differences between various sources and pre-amps when switching/changing between them more clearly on Xd much more so than any other speaker I've ever had.

IOW, it actually pays off to invest in better pre-amps, CD players, turntables, etc. for them.
I agree. This is why I am so satisfied with the Xd. It is an excellent foundation for me to build a quality two channel system around. I plan on auditioning some preamps and sources in the near future (Bryston, Naim, McIntosh) and decide if I want to go that direction. In the meantime I am enjoying the music with the equipment I already have.

I've got a set of 5 SuperOne's for Front L/R, Rear L/R, and Center. I changed my furniture up and want to get a true center style speaker and pull out the center SuperOne. I'm wondering if the NHT Classic line Absolute Center, Two C, or Three C would be an appropriate match to my SuperOne's. I'm not sure how the difference in cone material would matter in this situation.

Tim916
You wrote, "First off, the Xd is not really a sat/sub system in the traditional sense. It should be viewed more as a three-way speaker system split into multiple enclosures."

I am not sure what distinction you are making here. Is there a way for you to further clarify?
Thanks.

just picked up an power2 from listenup(on ebay) for 500-20%MS live discount.
seem good price...if anyone interesting should do it before the discount ends

Is this MS live discount still going? I would like to add a Power2 to my setup.

Is this MS live discount still going? I would like to add a Power2 to my setup.

actually its 25% off as now...even better

Tim916
You wrote, "First off, the Xd is not really a sat/sub system in the traditional sense. It should be viewed more as a three-way speaker system split into multiple enclosures."

I am not sure what distinction you are making here. Is there a way for you to further clarify?
Thanks.

I obviously can't speak for him, but what I think he was getting at here is that the bass integration is far better in every way, especially the critical phase, on Xd with it's active equalization and filtering with extremely steep crossover slopes than one could possibly hope to ever get with an outboard sub being fed by an AVR's crossover.

I've got a set of 5 SuperOne's for Front L/R, Rear L/R, and Center. I changed my furniture up and want to get a true center style speaker and pull out the center SuperOne. I'm wondering if the NHT Classic line Absolute Center, Two C, or Three C would be an appropriate match to my SuperOne's. I'm not sure how the difference in cone material would matter in this situation.

Not a good match. Why not just get a SuperCenter?

Mark,
"I obviously can't speak for him, but what I think he was getting at here is that the bass integration is far better in every way, especially the critical phase, on Xd with it's active equalization and filtering with extremely steep crossover slopes than one could possibly hope to ever get with an outboard sub being fed by an AVR's crossover"

Not fussin with you, just trying to learn.
how so with the phase? Doesn't the phase shift with frequency?
I can understand active equalization helping sound but that is available (isn't it?) with an equalizer
have no idea whata filtering with steep crossover slopes accomplish as some subs have crossover settings that can be used in conjunction with avr crossovers resulting in different slopes available to the user.

I have been able to accomplish good integration between my speakers and my subs, with both of the different subs I have used in my system. I hope that doesn't mean I can't hear the flaws you speak of.
Again, I am just trying to learn more.
Thanks.

Not a good match. Why not just get a SuperCenter?

Haven't been able to locate one locally as of yet

The white paper linked below will show you some of the problems with low slope crossovers.

http://www.nhthifi.com/current/manuals/current/NHTXd-WhitePaper.pdf

The entire subject of phase shift, group delay and filtering is quite complicated. In the analog domain there are relationships between these things that are immutable. When you are processing audio in the digital domain, some of these immutable relationships can be tweaked quite a bit. Thid is one of the huge advantages of a speaker system that has integrated DSP processing.

Jack Hidley: Tweaking the immutable.

Thanks.

Mark,
"I obviously can't speak for him, but what I think he was getting at here is that the bass integration is far better in every way, especially the critical phase, on Xd with it's active equalization and filtering with extremely steep crossover slopes than one could possibly hope to ever get with an outboard sub being fed by an AVR's crossover"

Not fussin with you, just trying to learn.
how so with the phase? Doesn't the phase shift with frequency?
I can understand active equalization helping sound but that is available (isn't it?) with an equalizer
have no idea whata filtering with steep crossover slopes accomplish as some subs have crossover settings that can be used in conjunction with avr crossovers resulting in different slopes available to the user.

I have been able to accomplish good integration between my speakers and my subs, with both of the different subs I have used in my system. I hope that doesn't mean I can't hear the flaws you speak of.
Again, I am just trying to learn more.
Thanks.

In addition to Jack's link, click here:

http://nhthifi.com/current/press/reviews/new/SSXdReview.pdf

... and then scroll down to the 7th page, second to last paragraph, and then continuing on to the next page. Both of the links help explain it far better than I could possibly ever hope to try. :o

Mark and Jack:
Thank you. All brain cells immediately shrunk upon first glance at reading materials. I will have to spend the time to 'understand' what is written.
I don't know how to answer the question of whether or not my ears are capable of hearing these distinctions.

Mikko,

Connect the subwoofer output on your Onkyo directly to the RCA input on the A1 amplifier driving the U1s. In other words bypass the X1 completely. Do you get any audible distortion from the 12" woofers now? Make sure to test this with the volume turned up loud. If this fixes the distortion, then it sounds like there is something wrong with the X1. Are the X1 and U1s new?

I finally managed to try this, and perhaps there is something wrong with the X1, as there was no distortion when bypassing the X1. Unfortunately I left my other X1 in the states, as I was planning to get the mod done.

Is there anything else I could do? I'm extremely relieved the U1s are fine as shipping them back to the states wouldn't have been worth it. The X1 will be very easy.

Milko,

Make sure to repeat the test this way:

Remove the subwoofer grille.

Install the X1 back into the system. Play back some bass content that causes the distortion that you hear. Observe the amount of cone motion while the distortion is happening.

Remove the X1 from the system. Play back the same bass content, but at a higher volume. Adjust the amplifier volume until the cone excursion is the same as in the first test. Because the X1 has some bass boost, you will need to turn the volume up quite a bit higher to get the same cone excursion that you had in the first test above. Listen for the distortion. If you do not hear the distortion, then something is probably wrong with the X1.

If the X1 is causing the distortion, then you need to return it to NHT for service or find a local repair shop that is good at repairing audio electronics.

Mark and Jack:
Thank you. All brain cells immediately shrunk upon first glance at reading materials. I will have to spend the time to 'understand' what is written.
I don't know how to answer the question of whether or not my ears are capable of hearing these distinctions.

If you could only hear Xd for yourself, then you'd understand it a whole lot better. Unless and until you ever do though, you'll never even know what you're missing from what you are used to now. I was in the same boat before too. ;)

So I've mentioned my sub-less Xd system that's serving in my bedroom's sitting area. The factory 110 Hz high pass isn't exactly cutting it for use without an XdW, so the system is now sporting Rev1 of a custom filter set for the XdA. Here's a shot of my setup for the first set of measurements with REW:

http://hornskeith.com/audio/NHT%20Xd%20sitting%20with%20SPL%20Meter.JPG


Initial measurements with the SPL meter positioned as shown in the picture. Red line is the factory 110 Hz high pass. The other four lines represent four different high pass settings on the custom filter from Audio Consulting Services (http://www.audioconsultingservices.com/). From the top, the high pass frequencies are 50, 60, 75, and 90 Hz.


http://hornskeith.com/audio/nht%20xd%20sitting%20-%20factory%20vs%204%20custom%20no-sub%20filters.jpg


With some movement of the meter, I found out the severity of the response notches was linked to small changes in position (no doubt due to the small size of the area).


http://hornskeith.com/audio/microphone%20placement%20effect%20in%20nht%20xd%20sitting%20 area-%20fore%20aft%20movement.jpg


Yellow is closer to the wall, purple farther away.

In terms of low frequency quality, I was surprised at how good it sounded in this small area. Quite a bit better than I expected. Obviously not useful for organ music or anything of the like, but kick drums and acoustic bass are rendered fairly convincingly at the listening levels I use in this area (nothing very loud).

I've been very pleased with it so far.

Keith

In terms of low frequency quality, I was surprised at how good it sounded in this small area. Quite a bit better than I expected. Obviously not useful for organ music or anything of the like, but kick drums and acoustic bass are rendered fairly convincingly at the listening levels I use in this area (nothing very loud).

Pretty cool that you got custom firmware. I'm glad to hear it sounds good. When you think about it, seems like the XdS should be able to kick out about as much bass as the SB1, which to me always sounded surprisingly full. So I guess it shouldn't be too surprising.

Which high pass frequency do you think you'll use most?

Dare I ask how you got custom firmware? :eek:

Dare I ask how you got custom firmware? :eek:

He pretty much said he hired Jack to create it, right?

He pretty much said he hired Jack to create it, right?

Or one of Jack's associates, yes. Very nice folks to deal with.

Which high pass frequency do you think you'll use most?

Lately, I've been leaning towards the 90 Hz filter for most listening. After I do some REW work (hopefully this week) on my main system with regard to XdW positioning, I'll return to working on this little one for both listening spot and (within reason) XdS spots. In a space this small, there aren't too many choices for either. ;)

Both the 90 and 75 Hz filters are quite reasonable on a wide variety of material. The 50/60 Hz filters (which sound very similar to me) are amusing, but they have notably too much bass presence for what I'm enjoying most of the time.

Keith

^^^ Not trying to rain on your parade here in any way whatsoever, but for only $600 more, why didn't you simply get another XdW, especially since you likely had to pay at least part of that amount for the custom filters anyway? :confused:

The XdW is a truly incredible sub in it's own right, but for only $600 shipped, it's a no-brainer.

On a related note, can you still add an XdW to this system with the custom lower crossover points? If so, in a smaller room like that where only one XdW (and not as much total system output) would be required might actually work out even better with a crossover at 80 Hz.

Arghh! They would come out with a sale on this! Hahaha, it's OK, I still love my Classics. Speaking of which, it's time to make an addition and one of the avenues I'm looking into are the X2/A1s. Now, it's one X2 for two A1s on the Classic 4s...correct? Prices on those have gone WAY up, too.

Now, it's one X2 for two A1s on the Classic 4s...correct?

Correct. You could get by with one A1, but two is much better, both in terms of output and retaining stereo bass since the low pass on the Fours is at 125 Hz. Adding an X2/A1s to a pair of Fours will help to close the gap somewhat with Evo subs, like the T5s for example.

^^^ Not trying to rain on your parade here in any way whatsoever, but for only $600 more, why didn't you simply get another XdW, especially since you likely had to pay at least part of that amount for the custom filters anyway? :confused:

I believe there are WAF issues with a subwoofer in the bedroom, hence trying to squeeze as much as possible out of the XdS.

Hey guys just wondering how a NHT VS 1.4 would sound as a center? I am thinking about getting one and it would be helpful to know before I try to hunt one down. Of course I would like to hear it myself first but just didn't know what anyone elses opinion would be on it..

Also how much would a used one usually go for?

and...

what speaker would it be comparable to in the current NHT lineup of speakers?


Thanks

any ideas?

Do you currently own NHT speakers? If so which models?

Do you currently own NHT speakers? If so which models?

No I don't. I am looking at buying some though. I at least want my surrounds to be Absolute Zeros.

Thanks Mark

Correct. You could get by with one A1, but two is much better, both in terms of output and retaining stereo bass since the low pass on the Fours is at 125 Hz. Adding an X2/A1s to a pair of Fours will help to close the gap somewhat with Evo subs, like the T5s for example.

Mike-G, what is your budget? If you want to keep to the same vintage you might look for super ones for the fronts with the super center.

I currently use T5s and love them.

I have 4's , 3's, 3c, Absolute zero's , and x2 with two a1's. What do I need for power to drive the system correctly? Should the amp or receiver be able to put out 200 watts per channel?

I just bought a used Classic 2 Center channel speaker for $175 in great condition on ebay.. was this a good deal or could I have gotten it cheaper? I know the speaker is quite expensive new but I didn't know what a used value was. Anyone?

I just upgraded my T5 system with a Power2 amplifier and a second A1. I was using a Marantz AVR to power the M5s. The closeout deals were just too good to pass up.

I can't believe the difference I'm hearing, especially in the mid bass. I used to crank my receiver to +6 db on the bass, but I still couldn't "feel" the music. This new setup just blows it away, even at lower volumes.

Thanks to Mark, John, and Jack for all of the great info on this thread.

Each M5 and B5 is driven by its own A1 in my system...originally separate monoblock amps for each speaker seemed like such a great idea...9 separate amplifiers later...but it does sound good!

^^^ On my local Craig's List there were five of those old Adcom GFA-565 300 watt monoblocks for sale at an almost unbelievable price, so I snapped them up, but haven't really done anything with them yet since I'm sure they will require a dedicated circuit. :eek:

Here's an example of them:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/79879-2_pair_adcom_gfa565_mono_power_amps_300_watts_per_channel/

I just upgraded my T5 system with a Power2 amplifier and a second A1. I was using a Marantz AVR to power the M5s. The closeout deals were just too good to pass up.

I can't believe the difference I'm hearing, especially in the mid bass. I used to crank my receiver to +6 db on the bass, but I still couldn't "feel" the music. This new setup just blows it away, even at lower volumes.

Thanks to Mark, John, and Jack for all of the great info on this thread.

Congrats. I've always been an advocate ever since I first tried it myself about using two A1s with a pair of T5s (if not a U2 set too) for true stereo bass, and the Power2 from ListenUp is prolly the absolute best 2 channel amp deal on the market right now.

I just bought a used Classic 2 Center channel speaker for $175 in great condition on ebay.. was this a good deal or could I have gotten it cheaper? I know the speaker is quite expensive new but I didn't know what a used value was. Anyone?

Assuming it works and looks OK, sleep soundly young grasshopper, for you made the right choice, especially if you are getting AZs to go with it. And I seriously doubt you could have gotten it much cheaper than that. ;)

I have 4's , 3's, 3c, Absolute zero's , and x2 with two a1's. What do I need for power to drive the system correctly? Should the amp or receiver be able to put out 200 watts per channel?

A Power5, if you could find one, would be perfect for you.

While you can never have too much power IMO, since you have the Fours biamped with an X2/A1s combo, a good, measurable 100 watt amp to drive the rest high passed should be adequate for you unless you have a huge, gigantic room and/or listen at intolerable volume levels.

I believe there are WAF issues with a subwoofer in the bedroom, hence trying to squeeze as much as possible out of the XdS.

That would explain it then. :D

Assuming it works and looks OK, sleep soundly young grasshopper, for you made the right choice, especially if you are getting AZs to go with it. And I seriously doubt you could have gotten it much cheaper than that. ;)

Thanks Mark; yes i am buying absolute zeros to go with it...

Congrats. I've always been an advocate ever since I first tried it myself about using two A1s with a pair of T5s (if not a U2 set too) for true stereo bass, and the Power2 from ListenUp is prolly the absolute best 2 channel amp deal on the market right now.

The power2 was only $375 after a 25% cashback offer from Microsoft Live search / Ebay.

I've got a pair of W2s ready to go. I think that means I can get the 20hz mod.

I've got a pair of W2s ready to go. I think that means I can get the 20hz mod.

Correct, assuming you will only be using one X1 in the system.

Based on what Jack previously said here before the two updates:

Currently if you have a tower speaker on the left and right channel of the Controller set to large and you add a subwoofer to the system, you get crap because of the phase problems and overlapping outputs. The new ,very soon to be shipping, software upgrade for the Controller works differently. The following only applies if you have NHT speakers.

If you set up a system without a subwoofer, the Controller will run any speakers capable of full range reproduction, full range. If you select a subwoofer in the setup, the Controller will then run any of these full range speakers down to 40Hz and then put a matching low pass filter on the subwoofer output at 40Hz. This will give the system maximum dynamic range and eliminate any comb filtering between the subwoofer and full range speaker.

... I'm going to add a U2 (with each W2 placed in a corner or both stacked in one corner), or one or two W1s to a T5 system with a Controller/Power5 and dual X1s in the system and see (hear might be a better word) what it's like. :D

Is anyone using their Xd system as part of a home theater? If so, what did you do for the center channel and the surrounds? Also, how many XdW subwoofers are you using and what filter are you using? Has anyone tried to use a separate subwoofer just for the LFE channel?

I'm finishing the setup of my system and plan on having XdA's across the front three channels each with their own sub. I also plan on using a pair of Absolute Zero speakers for the rear.

Thanks

Correct, assuming you will only be using one X1 in the system.

I've only got one X1, but I was wondering what it would sound like to use 2 of them. Let us know how your experiment goes.

Could you use one X1 for L/R/LFE and another for the surrounds? Would that work for surround music (DVDA/SACD)?

Hey I just got my Absolute Zeros and the threads on the back of these things are two different sizes on them? So with that said how can I mount these things and does anybody know of good mounts that can hold more than 8lbs?

Mike,

The newer AZ has a 3/8"-16 threaded insert on the back. It is designed for an Omnimount 20 series bracket. The older AZ has a single 1/4"-20 threaded insert on the back. It is designed for an Omnimount 10 series bracket. I would return the AZ with the 1/4"-20 insert to your dealer and exchage it for one with a 3/8"-16 insert.

Does anybody knows where can I get the optional rack ears that NHT has for the Power5, Power2, two A1's and an X1? I have been looking and can't seem to find any info on these.


Thanks

I'm 99% sure that NHT has the A1/X1 rack ears in stock.

Does anybody knows where can I get the optional rack ears that NHT has for the Power5, Power2, two A1's and an X1? I have been looking and can't seem to find any info on these.


Thanks

Yes, as Jack suggested, just try contacting NHT directly.

Is anyone using their Xd system as part of a home theater?

Yep! :D

If so, what did you do for the center channel and the surrounds?

All XdSs

Also, how many XdW subwoofers are you using and what filter are you using?

6.3 with 20 Hz filter on main L/R XdA. I also seem to remember Senor Ashman saying something on this thread before about how he installed a 6.3 system that was technically 6.1 by putting a single XdW on all three XdAs with each XdW placed close to each front stage speaker in the room.

Has anyone tried to use a separate subwoofer just for the LFE channel?

Here's what Jack had to say about that:

You might be able to add a JL subwoofer to an Xd system, but you must do it with a surround processor and even then the integration isn't going to be correct. The DSP processing in the XdA has about 8.5ms of latency. When you set up the Xd system in your processor, you set the L and R to full range. Then connect the JL to the subwoofer output. Add an extra 8.5ms of delay on top of what the actual distance delay for the JL is. The JL will only receive the LFE channel when playing back 5.1 sources. When playing back 2 channel sources, it will probably receive no signal, but that is a function of your processor. When everything is working, the bass integration will be ok, but never great.

A better solution would be to get the Xd system with two XdWs and install the 20Hz filter set in the XdA. This will give you more low bass output, better imaging, smoother bass response and perfect integration.

I'm finishing the setup of my system and plan on having XdA's across the front three channels each with their own sub. I also plan on using a pair of Absolute Zero speakers for the rear.

Thanks

Good plan. I've had a 2.2 Xd system for well over 2 years now, and last spring I picked up the 6.3 Xd surround system, so I very recently picked up yet another 2.1 Xd system for the versitility and flexibility. I could go 6.2 with two different 2.2 systems, 6.3 with 2.2 and 2.1 systems, or, I could even actually do up two different 5.3 Xd systems, but one XdA would have to be in a separate room for one system in that case. :p

I've only got one X1, but I was wondering what it would sound like to use 2 of them. Let us know how your experiment goes.

Could you use one X1 for L/R/LFE and another for the surrounds? Would that work for surround music (DVDA/SACD)?

If you have the surrounds high passed to Evo subs - yes, absolutely. It would give you more boundary and phase control than one X1, like for example, if the T5s are out in "free space", but you have W2s for the surrounds up against the walls and/or corners.

As to whether or not you can have the 20 Hz mod on 2 different X1s in the same room/system with the required minimum total of four 12" drivers, but with only two of them on each X1, I don't know. Jack would have to answer that one. :confused: But it looks to me like if you engage 2 channel only, it would not work.

I just picked up a new Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver. My current 5.1 speaker setup includes the old NHT Super series all around and they have served me well for the past 8 years. Am I doing my receiver justice by grinding out these NHTs...or is it time for an upgrade?

Thanks!

^^^ What sub and surrounds?

i'm using the superones as my surrounds and the supersub as my sub

That's like asking "how hight is up?"

If you're happy, stay with what you have - the Super series were/are terrific speakers!

How happy are you with the Super sub-woofer? That's a place for a big change - also, if the movies you play, and I imagine you do, have a lot of bass - a subwoofer upgrade can make a big difference.

There are so many variables - budget, size of room - size of speakers - and do you really need and will you truly appreciate an upgrade?

^^^ I couldn't agree more with the above - upgrade the sub first.

I wanted to make sure you didn't have those dipole surrounds NHT used to make for the Super Series, I can't even recall the model #, but you don't have them anyway.

Edit - *smacks head* I just now realized that you had your current surrounds and sub listed in the bold heading of your first post all along. :o

FYI, Listenup has gotten some more L5s in, and they are blowing them out at $149 each. These are the silver ones, get em while you can!

Edit: Free shipping to boot!

Today I received my Power2 that I bought from ListenUp. The box was pretty banged up, it even has a hole in it. Took out of the box and everything looks in good shape but when you move side to side you can hear that there is some loose hardware inside the unit. I called ListenUp and Bruce told me to call NHT, that he had a customer with the same issue. I called NHT and was told that they were going to get in touch with but the cool thing was that it was Mr. Byrne who answer my call and he even called back within an hour. Anyways, I was just sharing that experience with you guys.
Hopefully the issue with the amp gets resolved.

That's great but I'd expect ListenUp to fix that "loose hardware" problem (by replacing the unit) if they could. I'd normally expect the seller to get me a working unit with no issues (other than any disclosed before I bought), and not to put it on me to contact the manufacturer. Even an open box unit. Am I missing something?

That's great but I'd expect ListenUp to fix that "loose hardware" problem (by replacing the unit) if they could. I'd normally expect the seller to get me a working unit with no issues (other than any disclosed before I bought), and not to put it on me to contact the manufacturer. Even an open box unit. Am I missing something?

I had a similar experience with ListenUp. Honestly, I was perfectly happy to work with NHT. In addition to Chris Byrne being very pleasant to deal with, I didn't have to put down a deposit or deal with any downtime to get my cosmetically-damaged XdW replaced. They sent me the new one, I will shortly send them the old one...

That's great but I'd expect ListenUp to fix that "loose hardware" problem (by replacing the unit) if they could. I'd normally expect the seller to get me a working unit with no issues (other than any disclosed before I bought), and not to put it on me to contact the manufacturer. Even an open box unit. Am I missing something?

Bruce offered me to take it back with a full refund. Normally he will replace the unit but he doesn't have them in stock. Since I want to keep this unit, he suggested me to contact NHT for a possibly quick fix and if that doesn't work out I can send it back.

Does anyone with a Controller know what the "Stereo96" mode is for? Ive tried switching it back and forth with a cd on and dont hear any difference.

^^^

I wanted to make sure you didn't have those dipole surrounds NHT used to make for the Super Series, I can't even recall the model #, but you don't have them anyway.


JUst for the record I think they where the HDP-1 and HDP-2. I had a pair of the HDP-2 s with my 2.9s.
Allen

Good plan. I've had a 2.2 Xd system for well over 2 years now, and last spring I picked up the 6.3 Xd surround system, so I very recently picked up yet another 2.1 Xd system for the versitility and flexibility. I could go 6.2 with two different 2.2 systems, 6.3 with 2.2 and 2.1 systems, or, I could even actually do up two different 5.3 Xd systems, but one XdA would have to be in a separate room for one system in that case. :p

Thanks for the reply. I ran into a snag where my outlet/circuit cannot support 3 XdW's and 2 XdA's. No problem with 2 subs and 2 XdA's - but the third XdW tripped the breaker. I can try to run the power cord to another circuit, but the wife may not like the extended cable run.

I was thinking about using a wireles transmitter - the Audio Engine Wireless Adapter - so I would have greater flexibility placing the sub for my center channel. However, the adapter works using RCA cables. I guess I could try to use it by buying XLR to RCA cables - connecting one to the XdA (along with the transmitter) and the other to the XdW (along witht he receiver). I'm not sure if this would work or compromise the sound quality.

Currently, I am using 2 subs - one for the front right and left speakers and the other dedicated to the center channel. I originally had the two subs connected to the front right and left - but crossing over the center in my preamp/processor was not ideal. When I moved one of the subs over to the center, the center channel improved, but I do miss running 2 subs for music. If I can ge the third sub to work - I could have the best of both worlds.

I don't quite understand why you can't easily integrate a separate sub to an Xd system as long as you run each Xd channel full range. My processor automatically accounts for the latency in the Xd system by adding about 8 feet to the speaker distance settings for the Xd channels. A long as you don't mix the Xd signals with the LFE - I can't see why there would be a problem.

I was thinking about using a wireles transmitter - the Audio Engine Wireless Adapter - so I would have greater flexibility placing the sub for my center channel. However, the adapter works using RCA cables. I guess I could try to use it by buying XLR to RCA cables - connecting one to the XdA (along with the transmitter) and the other to the XdW (along witht he receiver). I'm not sure if this would work or compromise the sound quality.

I seem to recall that when the Xd was released (or at least announced), in addition to the room correction software that never arrived, they also promised a wireless sub module. Digital signal, transmitted at 2.4 GHz, I believe. Would have been just what you needed.

Does anyone with a Controller know what the "Stereo96" mode is for? Ive tried switching it back and forth with a cd on and dont hear any difference.I don't have a controller, Power5, or Xds (and I'm jealous of all of those who do), but I would guess it's for listening to music DVDs with 96/24 encoding.

Peter

Stereo96 mode in the Controller takes a digital input and upsamples it to 96kHz. It bypasses the tone controls also. It is sort of a super high quality, pure stereo mode.

Yes, the HDP-1 and HDP-2 were the first and second hybrid dipole speakers that NHT built.

If you have a system with 3 XdWs and 2 XdAs and need to split up the AC power to them, put all 3 XdWs on one circuit and the 2 XdAs on another circuit. Taking the XLR XdW output on the back of the XdA and sending it to a transmitter with an RCA input should work fine.

If you put a subwoofer on the LFE output of your surround sound processor while the L and R channels are set to full range with XdWs on them, you will have a number of problems.

1) The phase relationship of the SW on the LFE output and the XdWs on the L and R outputs, won't be the same, even if you can adjust the LFE delay to be perfectly correct (to do this will require test gear). This means that at some frequencies the bass from the LFE SW and the XdWs will be in phase and add correctly, and at most other frequencies it will somewhat out of phase and cancel.

An Xd system has a constant latency of about 8ms from 150Hz up. Below 150Hz, the latency goes up. The lower in frequency you go, the more latency there is. This is true of all speaker systems, not just Xd. Every subwoofer or speaker will have a different latency versus frequency curve. This curve is also called the group delay or phase response of the system.

You need to remember where the sound on the LFE track came from. In the recording process, there was some sound with a lot of bass. The mixing engineer took some of this sound and panned it to whatever location it was supposed to come from. This means that if the explosion was supposed to come from house left, the explosion sound is mostly going to be mixed into the L and LS channels. Next the mixer takes some portion of the explosion sound and sends it to the LFE channel. This removes all frequencies above 120Hz.

At this point, the bass signals in the L, LS and LFE channels are correlated to each other. If you play back each of these channels, you need to maintain that coherency, otherwise the signals are going to cancel each other. If the playback systems on each of these three channels have the same phase and frequency response, then the signals will be reproduced coherently. If the phase and frequency response of the playback systems on these three channels aren't the same, then the coherence will be lost and the signals will cancel each other.

2) If you put a typical subwoofer on the LFE channel with an XdW on the L and on the R channels, you will end up with a system that has less low frequency dynamic range. The surround processor will probably only send the LFE content to the SW output. The LFE content on the SW output will overwhelm that one subwoofer while the XdWs on the L and R are loafing, since they are only reproducing the bass from the L and R channels. If you set the same system to no subwoofer, the LFE will get directed to the XdWs on the L and R. For a system with XdWs on the L and R, and a separate SW for the LFE output to work from a dynamic range standpoint, the separate subwoofer needs to have at least the output capability of three XdWs.

Yes, there was supposed to be an RF transmission option for the XdW signal with Xd. The vendor that was going to build it decided not to at the last minute. We couldn't find an acceptable substitute.

Stereo96 mode in the Controller takes a digital input and upsamples it to 96kHz. It bypasses the tone controls also. It is sort of a super high quality, pure stereo mode.


That makes total sense but when I play a CD via any of the digital inputs(hdmi, optical or coax) it will not allow me to switch to Stereo96 mode. However, when I play a CD using the normal analog inputs it allows me to switch to Stereo96. Am I doing something wrong?

Stereo96 mode was going to allow upsampling of digital inputs. I guess that never got implemented.

Jack I have 2 questions for you.

If you use one of the Blueray players that decodes and sends the signal out through their analog outputs to the controller do you still get the benefits of using the controller on NHT speakers or is it just a pass through for the sound. Because if I am right you do all of your BM in the player when you use it this way.

When the controller came out their was talk about a hardware upgrade that would give it HDMI 1.3. If this is so why doesn’t someone get Venice (or ever who they where) to go ahead and build the boards to convert it to hdmi 1.3. I would guess if the controller was designed that why most of the work would kind of be done already.
Allen

Stereo96 mode was going to allow upsampling of digital inputs. I guess that never got implemented.

thats too bad....sometimes I feel like I bought a Corvette with a V6 when I bought the Controller, at least I got it at closeout prices....;)

thanks for the speedy replies Jack!

Jack I have 2 questions for you.

If you use one of the Blueray players that decodes and sends the signal out through their analog outputs to the controller do you still get the benefits of using the controller on NHT speakers or is it just a pass through for the sound. Because if I am right you do all of your BM in the player when you use it this way.

When the controller came out their was talk about a hardware upgrade that would give it HDMI 1.3. If this is so why doesn’t someone get Venice (or ever who they where) to go ahead and build the boards to convert it to hdmi 1.3. I would guess if the controller was designed that why most of the work would kind of be done already.
Allen

Allen, according to manual, the NHT speaker wizard model specific DEQ is not on the 5/6/7.1 analog inputs, so it is basically an analog pass through only, but it does have some limited analog bass management - 80 Hz high pass for all channels, L/R large with all the rest high passed at 80 Hz, or all channels full range/large.

That makes total sense but when I play a CD via any of the digital inputs(hdmi, optical or coax) it will not allow me to switch to Stereo96 mode. However, when I play a CD using the normal analog inputs it allows me to switch to Stereo96. Am I doing something wrong?

I've never even tried it before, but I will and report back.

thats too bad....sometimes I feel like I bought a Corvette with a V6 when I bought the Controller, at least I got it at closeout prices....;)

For pure 2 channel or SD DVD listening on any non-Xd NHT speaker though, there is simply no other pre-amp that I've seen or heard on the market yet at any price I'd rather have though.

Thanks to the "pass-through" features of the 5/6/7.1 analog inputs Allen was asking about, you can still add a Blue Ray player with analog outputs and on board decoding, or even do what I did and use the unity gain volume setting add a relatively cheap AVR with HDMI 1.3 and on-board decoding (and even room correction/Eq, video processing, and XM/Sirius tuners too), just so long as it has pre-outs. Something like an Onkyo 705706 or 805/806. ;)

[QUOTE=mark russ;15197355]For pure 2 channel or SD DVD listening on any non-Xd NHT speaker though, there is simply no other pre-amp that I've seen or heard on the market yet at any price I'd rather have though.


Agreed. While I probably havent heard as many pre-amps as Mark, Im very happy with the performance I get from the Controller when listening to vinyl via the analog inputs. it just wouldve been nice if the Controller couldve been all the things it was originally designed to be. Im currently waiting on the new Oppo blu ray and will let you guys know how it sounds via the 7.1 analog inputs. If it isnt satisfactory then Ill probably go the same route as Mark and pick up an inexpensive receiver for blu ray duty.

If you have a system with 3 XdWs and 2 XdAs and need to split up the AC power to them, put all 3 XdWs on one circuit and the 2 XdAs on another circuit. Taking the XLR XdW output on the back of the XdA and sending it to a transmitter with an RCA input should work fine.

How critical is the placement for the XdW dedicated for the center channel? I am going to use a wireless transmitter from AudioEngine for the XdW and move it to a separate circuit. Is it ok for the XdW to be away from the center? Can I move it away as long as the XdW is approximately the same distance from the seating position as the center channel XdS?

Also, of the three filters - what would be the best option? Should all three front channels use the same filter or can you mix and match?

Thanks

^^^ If you have the 20 Hz or the "high output" filters on the CC's XdA, then the XdW should be within a foot or so of the XdS.

For surround duty, I'd at least use the 20 Hz filter on the main L/R XdA.

What kind of drivers do NHT use now? I know they used to use SEAS; are they still using them?

IF you are a dealer here is how you make money with 100% mark-ups:eek:


AktiMate Active Loudspeaker With iPod Dock

Promotion Details
1. Purchase three or more pairs at best column pricing of $349.50/pair
§ Save almost $70.00 a pair off of normal dealer cost of $419.40.
§ Earn over $350 a pair when you sell them at retail for $699.99
§ Specify black or white AktiMates
2. Receive an 8GB iPod Nano for Free*
§ Color of iPod will vary – most likely black or silver.
3. Promotional Pricing Period is December 1, 2008 through December 30, 2008.

Mark is correct. When using the analog 7.1 input, the Controller only has the standard analog bass management. There is none of the NHT speaker specific processing available.

Adding HDMI 1.3 is much more complicated than just changing an IC or one circuit board. It requires a redesign of about half of the Controller.

Vinci Labs went out of business about 1 year ago.

The XdW should be as close as possible to the XdS for CC use. Definitely keep the listener to XdS and listener to XdW distances equal. For the best possible dialogue, I would use the stock or custom filter set for the CC XdA. You want a low crossover frequency to keep all of the dialogue coming out of the CC XdS. This will also lessen the affects of having the CC XdW farther away. Whether you use the stock filter set or the 140Hz/high output filter set on the L and R is a function of how loud you listen. If you listen loud, use the high output filter set. If you don't listen loud, use the stock filter set. The filters for the L, C and R do not have to be the same. If they are the same, you will get the best possible imaging.

NHT uses drivers built by a number of different companies. NHT has never just designed product using only one driver manufacturer. Most of the driver companies that NHT uses do not sell to the public, so no one who reads this would recognize them.

Can we get a SPAM and user deletion please?

The XdW should be as close as possible to the XdS for CC use. Definitely keep the listener to XdS and listener to XdW distances equal. For the best possible dialogue, I would use the stock or custom filter set for the CC XdA. You want a low crossover frequency to keep all of the dialogue coming out of the CC XdS. This will also lessen the affects of having the CC XdW farther away.

One more question - I am going to use the wireless transmitter for the Center Channel XdW. From what I've read - the wireless transmitter has a latency of 20mS. I can't find a wireless solution without latency and the AudioEngine solution is supposed to be one of the best available. Should I try to compensate for the latency for the CC XdW by actually moving it closer to the listening position. My CC XdS is about 9-10 feet from the primary seating position. I can have the XdW anywhere from 9-10 feet away to as close as right next to the seating position.

Thank you for all of your help and education on the Xd system.

If the AudioEngine Tx/Rx system has 20ms of latency, that is going to create a huge problem in your application. Sound travels about 1' per ms. A latency of 20ms means that the XdW will need to be 20' closer to you than the CC XdS to get them in time alignment. This obviously isn't possible and even if it were, it would create other big problems.

With the bass from the CC XdW delayed by 20msec, that means that the bass from the CC XdW and the L/R XdWs are going to cancel each other at 25Hz, 75 Hz and 125Hz. Also the output from the CC XdW and the CC XdS will be out of phase at the crossover frequency and there will no output there also. I think you will be very unhappy with the results.

Either find a wireless Tx/Rx system with low latency (2-5ms) or run an extension cord to the CC XdW.

Speaking of Xd, looks like I finally found a replacement for Xd in the store -

http://www.legendspeakers.com.au/products/tikandi.html

Very similar to the Xd with dual subs (including the driver choice), but it has the new HDP3 DEQX preamp/processor which has much higher analog quality, digital inputs, volume control, balanced outputs, optional outboard amps and a tower configuration. Only bummer is that it's more like $15K-$18K (if my conversion rate is correct) depending on amp configuration, so a bit more than double what Xd was, but it does address the things that helped keep Xd from doing much better than it did. Just an FYI. You still can't beat Xd at half price and spray paint is cheap.

If the AudioEngine Tx/Rx system has 20ms of latency, that is going to create a huge problem in your application. Sound travels about 1' per ms. A latency of 20ms means that the XdW will need to be 20' closer to you than the CC XdS to get them in time alignment. This obviously isn't possible and even if it were, it would create other big problems.

So much for the AudioEngine solution. I'll be returning it without even opening the box.

I can't find any wireless solutions with laency of between 2 and 5ms. If anyone knows of one - please let me know.

I looked into retrofitting a dedicated line - but it is cost prohibitive (between the electrician's charge and patching up the wall - I received a rough estimate of over $500).

For the time being, I will try to run an extension cord without upsetting the wife.

I will most likely try to run the front left and right channels using the reduced output filter that extends bass response to 20hz. It states that the XdW should be within a foot of the XdS. Is it better to have the XdW to the side of the XdS or is it ok to place the XdW directly behind the XdS?

Most of the wireless transmission solutions with low latency are only built and sold as OEM parts to other companies building these products into their systems. As such, they aren't available to the general public as finished, stand alone products. The more latency in the Tx/Rx system, the more robust the error correction can be. This guarantees that the user won't experience dropouts and glitches with the system. A company, such as AudioEngine, sellling directly to the end user, wants the most robust system that no one will ever complain about.

How do you know that you have reached the limit of your AC lines current output? Does the breaker trip? If so, under what conditions?

If you have a 15A circuit, it may be possible to upgrade this to a 20A circuit. This would be a new breaker and probably pulling new wire. Probably half the price since you don't need to do drywall work.

I would put the XdW to the side of the XdS.

How do you know that you have reached the limit of your AC lines current output? Does the breaker trip? If so, under what conditions?

After I received my third XdW, when I hooked it up the fault indicator lit up on one of XdW's that I already owned (not immediately, but after about 15 minutes). The odd thing was that when I was listening to the system (watching TV at about -10 dbs), I did not see an issue with the circuit. I didn't even know that there was an issue with the XdW until I passed by it, several minutes after I shutdown my system, and saw the red light indicator. When I went to unplug the XdW with the red light, the UPS that I have (APC S15) went to battery power. I thought that the circuit breaker tripped and went to the breaker panel and they were all fine. It actually tripped a GFCI circuit. Once I hit the reset button it was fine. I recently purchased the house and my living room shares a wall with the kitchen. I didn't know that my living room outlet was on the GFCI kitchen circuit. When I look at my UPS with 2 XdA's and 2 XdW's plus the HDTV, etc. - the maximum load thus far has been only 6.8 amps. I'm not sure if anything in the kitchen is actively using the circuit as I believe the appliance and lights are on different circuits.

Do you think it would be beneficial if I didn't plug the XdW's into the UPS? The UPS is huge designed to handle 15 amp loads with 1000 watts for battery backup. The subs/amps are plugged into the high current outlets. I can still keep everything plugged into the same circuit, but bypass the UPS for the XdW's.

Also, do you know why the XdW would go into fault mode? I thought there was protection for the amps built into the unit. NHT sent me a new amp. I should get it tomorrow. Hopefully, it is easy to swap out the XdW amps.

Thanks

I would rewire the GFCI outlet in the the kitchen, so that it is no longer protecting further downstream branch circuits. That will fix your problem. GFCI outlets are designed to look at the amount of current flowing through the ground/neutral conductor of the outlet. If this current is less than the current flowing out of the hot, the outlet thinks there is a fault condition on the device connected to the outlet. The big problem is that GFCI outlets false trigger with all kinds of normal loads connected to them. You usually can't plug a computer monitor into them. If you do, the GFCI will trigger when you turn the monitor on from the inductive current surge. GFCI outlets are usually only used in bathrooms where you have water close to the outlet.

I would plug the XdWs directly into the outlet.

There are a number of things that can cause the XdW to go into fault mode. Too high or too low AC line voltage. Over temperature of the amplifier. Too much DC at the output of the amplifier. The fact that the red LED is on, means that the protection is working. It is keeping the amplifier from turning on all the way. If the protection wasn't working, then the amplifier would turn on all the way and whatever fault condition is occuring would go forth and wreak havoc.

When you install the new amplifier, do not turn it on until you have installed and tightened all of the screws that hold the amplifier into the cabinet.

I would remove the GFCI outlet from the kitchen. Replace it with a normal outlet and that will fix your problem.

I would plug the XdWs directly into the outlet.

There are a number of things that can cause the XdW to go into fault mode. Too high or too low AC line voltage. Over temperature of the amplifier. Too much DC at the output of the amplifier. The fact that the red LED is on, means that the protection is working. It is keeping the amplifier from turning on all the way. If the protection wasn't working, then the amplifier would turn on all the way and whatever fault condition is occuring would go forth and wreak havoc.



I don't think I can remove the GFCI in the kitchen - it is required by code. There are 4 outlets on the same circuit - but not all of them are affected by the GFCI outlet. Maybe I can remove the link between the GFCI outlet in the kitchen and the main outlet for my system. The main system outlet worked fine for months until I plugged the third XdW into the outlet.

To help remedy things, I plugged two of the XdW's into an outlet on the same circuit - but not affected by the GFCI. Things appear to be working fine.

I went to change the XdW amp last night - but before doing so plugged in the XdW and to my surprise it turned on fine - no fault indicator. Before, NHT would send me a new amp - they asked me to check to see if it was still in fault mode since it was possible the amp had overheated. I did so almost 24 hours after the initial fault and it was still in fault mode. I also plugged it into several different outlets- each time getting a fault. Do you think it is ok for me to keep the XdW with the current amp or should I change it out? I don't see how it could take over 24 hours to cool down.

Thanks

I would remove the GFCI outlet from the kitchen.

GFCI outlets are usually only used in bathrooms where you have water close to the outlet.





Big time violation of the NEC to do that.

There are two ways to wire a GFCI outlet. One is to protect all branch (doiwnstream) outlets. The other is to only protect loads plugged directly into the GFCI outlet itself. The NEC requires the GFCI in your kitchen because the outlet is within 6' of a sink. Assuming your branch circuits are not within 6' of sinks, near showers, bathtubs, outside, etc, you can legally disable protection to the branch circuits, as it was never required. I edited the post above to clarify what I meant to say when I first posted it.

I don't know why the XdW took so long for the protection LED to go out. There is no chance that it took 24 hours for the amplifier to cool off. My first guess is that it went into protection because of the low line voltage. However, this is a nonlatching type of protection. The instant the voltage comes back into range, the unit should come out of protection. I'm not sure what happened. I would just wait to replace the new amplifier for a week or two and see if the fault happens again with the old amplifier.

There are two ways to wire a GFCI outlet. One is to protect all branch (doiwnstream) outlets. The other is to only protect loads plugged directly into the GFCI outlet itself. The NEC requires the GFCI in your kitchen because the outlet is within 6' of a sink. Assuming your branch circuits are not within 6' of sinks, near showers, bathtubs, outside, etc, you can legally disable protection to the branch circuits, as it was never required. I edited the post above to clarify what I meant to say when I first posted it.

I don't know why the XdW took so long for the protection LED to go out. There is no chance that it took 24 hours for the amplifier to cool off. My first guess is that it went into protection because of the low line voltage. However, this is a nonlatching type of protection. The instant the voltage comes back into range, the unit should come out of protection. I'm not sure what happened. I would just wait to replace the new amplifier for a week or two and see if the fault happens again with the old amplifier.

Understood - I am going to call an electrician on Monday. Do you know if it is easy to disable the GFCI protection to the outlet in the living room (it is more than 6 feet from a water source)? I don't know whether the wires for the living room outlet come directly from the box with the GFCI or if there are wires directly from the panel in addition to a set of wires from the GFCI.

I will wait a few weeks before returning the amp to NHT as long as they are ok with that.

Thanks

If the GFCI is in the outlet in the kitchen (GFCI outlet), then it is only a matter of swapping a few wires behind that outlet. If the GFCI is in your breaker box (GFCI breaker), then this would require running new wires in the wall. If the GFCI reset button is on the outlet in the kitchen, then you have scenario #1 from above. If the GFCI reset button is in the breaker box, then you have scenario #2 from above.

Allen, according to manual, the NHT speaker wizard model specific DEQ is not on the 5/6/7.1 analog inputs, so it is basically an analog pass through only, but it does have some limited analog bass management - 80 Hz high pass for all channels, L/R large with all the rest high passed at 80 Hz, or all channels full range/large.

Thanks Mark this is what I thought, just haven't read the manual page by page.

With price of some of the blueray players comming down that will decode and do the output through the anolog that someone hasn't hooked up a blueray to the controller.
Allen

Vinci Labs went out of business about 1 year ago.



I knew they sold NHT but I didn't know they went out of business.
Allen

Thanks Mark this is what I thought, just haven't read the manual page by page.

With price of some of the blueray players comming down that will decode and do the output through the anolog that someone hasn't hooked up a blueray to the controller.
Allen

Thanks for your all of your help.

Are there any recommended setup parameters for the Xds. I have each XdW as close as possible to its XdS. Should the front right and left XdS and XdW be pointed directly straight into the listening room or should they be toed in?

Thanks for your all of your help.

Are there any recommended setup parameters for the Xds. I have each XdW as close as possible to its XdS. Should the front right and left XdS and XdW be pointed directly straight into the listening room or should they be toed in?

This should be for Mark as he has all of the NHT speakers every made, in fact he has at least 3 of everything. He will respond on how to set up xds.

I have 2.9's M5's and M6's right now. Had a few other pairs in the past.

I would say if anybody is thinking of getting a blueray for their controller the pana 55 for $400.00 or less maybe the ticket. I am looking at replace my sony 350 with it to use with my Denon 5700 even though it is about a 11 years old it has 7.1 input which I don't need but 5.1. The 55 has also been said to be a great upconverting DVD player too. Last month HT mag had a review on it.
Allen

What's everyones thoughts on NHT's ole' HDP-1 surround speakers? I didn't know if these little guys sounded good or not but decided to take a plunge on them and give them a try. Any opinions?

Anyone here upgrading to xds or the M5/M6 and want to sell their classic speakers? I might be in the market for classic 3, 3c and zero. I've a rythmik Ds1200 for the sub, so i'm covered there.

What's everyones thoughts on NHT's ole' HDP-1 surround speakers? I didn't know if these little guys sounded good or not but decided to take a plunge on them and give them a try. Any opinions?

I had the HDP-2 I thoght they did a good job. I don't think I ever heard the hdp-1.
Allen

The HDP-1 has a very small 4.5" woofer in it. It won't go very low in frequency or play very loud. It was designed for rear channel use in Pl systems (mono, limited bandwidth). I would never use it in a discrete digital surround format.

I don't know why the XdW took so long for the protection LED to go out. There is no chance that it took 24 hours for the amplifier to cool off. My first guess is that it went into protection because of the low line voltage. However, this is a nonlatching type of protection. The instant the voltage comes back into range, the unit should come out of protection. I'm not sure what happened. I would just wait to replace the new amplifier for a week or two and see if the fault happens again with the old amplifier.

The fault came on again today. I didn't think that the newest XdW that I received was outputting enough bass so I decided to shift the subs around and move the center sub to the right channel. The center sub was the one with the fault issue. After I unplugged the unit moved it and redid all of the connections (while powered down) - when I turned it back on it went into fault mode. I replaced the amp tonight - it was very easy and it seems to be working fine.

However, I think that my third sub is not outputting enough bass. I listened to a CD with one of my original subs connected to the left channel and when placing my hand on the grill I could feel the vibrations from the driver. However, when I switched the left channel to my new sub, there is output - but not nearly as much - even if I raise the bass trim. Is there any chance it takes a little while for the drivers to break in and in the short-term the output will be less than the older subs or do you think that there is something wrong with the sub?

Thanks

Mikko,

Connect the subwoofer output on your Onkyo directly to the RCA input on the A1 amplifier driving the U1s. In other words bypass the X1 completely. Do you get any audible distortion from the 12" woofers now? Make sure to test this with the volume turned up loud. If this fixes the distortion, then it sounds like there is something wrong with the X1. Are the X1 and U1s new?

I finally managed to try the U1s with the other X1. Everything seems to work fine now, the distortion has completely dissappeared. I'll be sending the X1 to NHT as it must be broken.

The funny thing is that I had the other X1 with me in Europe all this time. It was buried under all the boxes of M6s, L5s, A1s and Classics.

Thanks to everyone for all help!

Time to pack up my main system in order to sell my condo and move to Spokane. In the meantime I want to set up a small 2.1 system using my AZ's and one of my vintage receivers. They sound decent on their own but definitely need some bass support. Can anyone recommend a small (under 13" tall) and cheap (under $150) sub to pair with them? Used or new, doesnt matter.

^^^ Well if you can stretch your budget of $150 by about $100 more, and aren't really stuck to those exact dimensions, the Acculine sub has gotten many positive remarks for it's "musicality" in the sub forum before.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php/loudspeakers/acculine/p/acculine-asub/cPath/21_32/products_id/68

Or, you could always try to pick up like a used SW10ii or something, which presumably would have at least some DEQ for it from your Controller's speaker wizard as well as a gloss black finish to match your AZs.

Does anyone with a Controller know what the "Stereo96" mode is for? Ive tried switching it back and forth with a cd on and dont hear any difference.

Stereo96 mode in the Controller takes a digital input and upsamples it to 96kHz. It bypasses the tone controls also. It is sort of a super high quality, pure stereo mode.

That makes total sense but when I play a CD via any of the digital inputs(hdmi, optical or coax) it will not allow me to switch to Stereo96 mode. However, when I play a CD using the normal analog inputs it allows me to switch to Stereo96. Am I doing something wrong?

Stereo96 mode was going to allow upsampling of digital inputs. I guess that never got implemented.

I've never even tried it before, but I will and report back.

I tried it, and same results as you - it would not allow me to use it with digital, but would with analog, and my Controller does have all available software updates.

Agreed. While I probably havent heard as many pre-amps as Mark, Im very happy with the performance I get from the Controller when listening to vinyl via the analog inputs. it just wouldve been nice if the Controller couldve been all the things it was originally designed to be. Im currently waiting on the new Oppo blu ray and will let you guys know how it sounds via the 7.1 analog inputs. If it isnt satisfactory then Ill probably go the same route as Mark and pick up an inexpensive receiver for blu ray duty.

Well I look at it like this, I figure that a HDMI 1.3 upgrade for the Controller would have cost at least $500 minimum, and prolly even more like $1000 or so based on Jack's comments on just what it would take to do so, just getting a relatively cheap AVR with pre-outs like an Onkyo 705/805 or Pioneer Elite 91 that has all the features that the Controller doesn't, such as room correction/equalization in addition to HDMI 1.3 and it's codecs, and using it to take advantage of the Controller's somewhat unique 7.1 input features works just as well. ;)

^^^ Well if you can stretch your budget of $150 by about $100 more, and aren't really stuck to those exact dimensions, the Acculine sub has gotten many positive remarks for it's "musicality" in the sub forum before.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php/loudspeakers/acculine/p/acculine-asub/cPath/21_32/products_id/68

Or, you could always try to pick up like a used SW10ii or something, which presumably would have at least some DEQ for it from your Controller's speaker wizard as well as a gloss black finish to match your AZs.

thanks for the suggestions...Im combing craigslist and audiogon for good deals on used subs, hopefully one of those will come up in the next few weeks

Well I look at it like this, I figure that a HDMI 1.3 upgrade for the Controller would have cost at least $500 minimum, and prolly even more like $1000 or so based on Jack's comments on just what it would take to do so, just getting a relatively cheap AVR with pre-outs like an Onkyo 705/805 or Pioneer Elite 91 that has all the features that the Controller doesn't, such as room correction/equalization in addition to HDMI 1.3 and it's codecs, and using it to take advantage of the Controller's somewhat unique 7.1 input features works just as well. ;)


Youve got me thinking that I may not have to wait for the Oppo blu ray now. I could get one of the AVR's you mentioned and then hook up my current Oppo 980 for sacd/dvda duty to it and then get the Panasonic bd 35 for blu ray. All of it could then be routed to my controller via the 7.1 analog connection. For better or worse, Ill be without my main setup until I sell my place so I should have plenty of time to research my options as I plan for the media room in my new house.

What is the difference in the x1 and the x2 crossovers in terms of frequency response and compatibility with other subs?

^^^ Well if you can stretch your budget of $150 by about $100 more, and aren't really stuck to those exact dimensions, the Acculine sub has gotten many positive remarks for it's "musicality" in the sub forum before.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php/loudspeakers/acculine/p/acculine-asub/cPath/21_32/products_id/68

Or, you could always try to pick up like a used SW10ii or something, which presumably would have at least some DEQ for it from your Controller's speaker wizard as well as a gloss black finish to match your AZs.

I just found a Classic 12 sub on craigslist for 450... I might get that for my transition time with AZ's and then use it with my whole C4 setup once I get the media room. Is that a good price for a used one?

What is the difference in the x1 and the x2 crossovers in terms of frequency response and compatibility with other subs?

X1 is for the Evolution subs U1/W1, U2/W2, B5, B6, that in-wall one too, I believe. It EQs those subs to have flat response to 26 Hz or so.

X2 is for other subs or bi-amping. It doesn't have the EQ to compensate for the natural rolloff in the Evolution models.

Do you know if it puts in a filter at 26 Hz also to kill everything below that?

Do you know if it puts in a filter at 26 Hz also to kill everything below that?

The X1, yes. It's not a brick wall, but it rolls off pretty fast below 26 Hz. If you have Evolution subs and want significant volume at frequencies below that, you'll need 2 (4 drivers total) and to get Jack to do the 20 Hz mod for you.

X2, no, not as far as I'm aware.

I have the classic 12 sub it is very natural and quick but lacks the really low frequency response that is more felt that heard. Very nice sub.

The X1, yes. It's not a brick wall, but it rolls off pretty fast below 26 Hz. If you have Evolution subs and want significant volume at frequencies below that, you'll need 2 (4 drivers total) and to get Jack to do the 20 Hz mod for you.

X2, no, not as far as I'm aware.

LOL flat to 26 then almost nothing. About the same as my classic 12 Sub I believe? I will have to do some reconsidering on my options with that on.

LOL flat to 26 then almost nothing. About the same as my classic 12 Sub I believe? I will have to do some reconsidering on my options with that on.

LOL? The Evos are spectacular subs. That last 6 Hz is pretty minor compared to the sub's performance in other parts of the spectrum. Don't dismiss it so quickly.

Also, I didn't explain the reason for the rolloff below 26 Hz very well. It isn't because "that" is "on"; rather because it's off. The sub, un-EQed, rolls off gradually below 70. The X1 cancels that out with EQ, adding more and more boost until it gets to 26 Hz. But at some point it has to stop or the sub just couldn't keep up. So the EQ gets removed around 26 or so.

Check out figure 10 here: http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/405nht/index5.html

The U1 or U2 will kick your classic 12's ass. I had an SW12, essentially the same sub, and replacing it with a U1 is possibly the biggest upgrade my system ever got... except for when I switched my front stage to Xd :) If you have a line on an Evo sub at a good price, you're doing yourself a disservice by not checking it out.

Really want extension to 20 Hz? Buy two :)

How does a single w1(takes 2 to make U1?) compare to single SW12? Also My fronts are classic 4's so with small room (12x16x9.5) could just biamp them and run the 12 as lfe only?

How does a single w1(takes 2 to make U1?) compare to single SW12? Also My fronts are classic 4's so with small room (12x16x9.5) could just biamp them and run the 12 as lfe only?

W1+X1+A1=U1, which has 2 12" drivers in the same cabinet
2xW2+X1+A1=U2, which gives you 2 cabinets with 1 12" driver in each

Then if you want the 20 Hz extension mod, you need 4 total 12" drivers, which means 2xU1 or 2xU2, or even U1+U2.

A single U1 or U2 system will sound a lot better than the Twelve. But since you have Classic 4s, I'm not sure whether it's a better idea to bi-amp the Fours or replace your Twelve. There was a lot of talk about how to get better bass out of a Four setup a while back but I know this thread is a pain to search through. Maybe someone else wants to chime in with advice?

I just found a Classic 12 sub on craigslist for 450... I might get that for my transition time with AZ's and then use it with my whole C4 setup once I get the media room. Is that a good price for a used one?

I wouldn't call it a great price. Frankly, for that kind of coin, I'd get a new SVS PB-10 first. As always though, YMMV.

As Matt has already pointed out, the X1 can be modded for 20 Hz, but it is recommended to have at least 4 Evo sub drivers in the system/room in any combination of cabinets.

As far as the Twelve vs the W2, FWIW, here are Senor Ashman's previous comments about that:

Large room, home theater. One Twelve (ported) probably plays a solid 3dB+ louder than a single U2.

I wouldn't add a Twelve or Twelves to Fours unless I had a Controller to automatically tie them together. Otherwise, I'd just bi-amp the Fours with an X2/A1s.

As Matt has already pointed out, the X1 can be modded for 20 Hz, but it is recommended to have at least 4 Evo sub drivers in the system/room in any combination of cabinets.

As far as the Twelve, I seem to remember Senor Ashman posted something wayyyyy back on this thread about a pair of Twelves would have more output than a U2 (which would be better only for movies), but I don't feel like trying to find it to quote for reference.:p

I wouldn't add a Twelve or Twelves to Fours unless I had a Controller to automatically tie them together. Otherwise, I'd just bi-amp the Fours with an X2/A1s.

The NHT controller? Currently I am using an Onkyo 906 as preamp and IPS1 amp. I seen a controller and ICE 5 go for less than $1400 last week. I am buying too much equipment as of late but I did some pocket searching and let it go. On flea-bay!

I just found a Classic 12 sub on craigslist for 450... I might get that for my transition time with AZ's and then use it with my whole C4 setup once I get the media room. Is that a good price for a used one? I believe that is a lot of money for a used Classic 12, considering what else is on the market (see my next comment)

I have the classic 12 sub it is very natural and quick but lacks the really low frequency response that is more felt that heard. Very nice sub. I'm not a fan of the Classic 12. I had one home with Classic 3s and thought it was rather anemic and not particularly clear. I then bought (based on Mark R's recommendation) U2s and it was dramatically better. I had the 20-Hz mod done and in my small room, I felt it was an improvement even with just 2 drivers. Then I added a second U2 system when they were going for $500, and WOW, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! It's a small room (13' wide x 13' listening area, with 18' wide by 13' behind us) and volumes are relatively low, but it's very powerful during movies. No difference with 2 or 4 drivers, 20-Hz mod or not 20-Hz mod for music.

How does a single w1(takes 2 to make U1?) compare to single SW12? Also My fronts are classic 4's so with small room (12x16x9.5) could just biamp them and run the 12 as lfe only?The impedance of a single W2 (the single unit, as Mark notes; the W1 is a dual-speaker unit) is quite high, I believe 12 Ohms but might be higher, so is not a good unit alone, as most amplifiers will drop power significantly at that high an impedance. With the U2 system, the 2 W2s are wired in parallel to lower the impedance.

As Matt has already pointed out, the X1 can be modded for 20 Hz, but it is recommended to have at least 4 Evo sub drivers in the system/room in any combination of cabinets.

As far as the Twelve, I seem to remember Senor Ashman posted something wayyyyy back on this thread about a pair of Twelves would have more output than a U2 (which would be better only for movies), but I don't feel like trying to find it to quote for reference.:p

I wouldn't add a Twelve or Twelves to Fours unless I had a Controller to automatically tie them together. Otherwise, I'd just bi-amp the Fours with an X2/A1s.I hate to admit agreeing with Mark in public (;)), but even for movies, you'd probably be happier with bi-amped (X2, perhaps a Power 2) Classic 4s than adding a sub.

Peter

Looking for suggestions:
A friend (on my recommendation) bought Classic 3s and C3c, and AZs (for the rear) for her HT. Because she set her room up diagonally, the AZs just don't work for rear channels and she is thinking of in-walls. The IW4s are big and rather expensive, but the size and price differences between the IW 1s to 3s are small. Ceiling is high, in a small room, and a condo so IC's are not an option. I know the drivers in the IW4s match the C3s well...

Peter

But the classic 12 looks so good with the matching Special Dark 4's and 3C! I never realized the 12 was so weak for home theater. I think I will step back and do some biamping so you feel the X1 is ok to biamp the 4's. Also do you feel the 12 would be useful in LFE only mode with no xover to the 4's? I think you have said no but just wanted to clarify.

Looking for suggestions:
A friend (on my recommendation) bought Classic 3s and C3c, and AZs (for the rear) for her HT. Because she set her room up diagonally, the AZs just don't work for rear channels and she is thinking of in-walls. The IW4s are big and rather expensive, but the size and price differences between the IW 1s to 3s are small. Ceiling is high, in a small room, and a condo so IC's are not an option. I know the drivers in the IW4s match the C3s well...

Peter

I'm confused. How is it that AZs won't work but in-wall speakers will?

But the classic 12 looks so good with the matching Special Dark 4's and 3C! I never realized the 12 was so weak for home theater. I think I will step back and do some biamping so you feel the X1 is ok to biamp the 4's. Also do you feel the 12 would be useful in LFE only mode with no xover to the 4's? I think you have said no but just wanted to clarify.

The X2 would be needed for Fours.

This may help:

http://nhthifi.com/current/techdocs/NHT-Bi-amping_Fours_with_Controller_and_X2-ez_setup.pdf

You wouldn't be using the Controller, but, the same basic concept.

To Clarify, use the X2 LFE input to send it to the Fours' subs. About the only advantage the Twelves would offer is placement flexibility, but the X2 would pretty much negate even that. Or, you could get a Controller as cheap as they are right now and add Twelve(s) to the Fours with it.

Looking for suggestions:
Because she set her room up diagonally, the AZs just don't work for rear channels and she is thinking of in-walls.

I'm confused. How is it that AZs won't work but in-wall speakers will?The couch corners touch the wall and the AZs would be (1) too close to the wall and (2) right in the listener's ear (or at least one of them would be...). The IWs would give at least another foot of distance in those very close quarters, and also allow some initial placement flexibility regarding the couch.

Peter

The X2 would be needed for Fours.Oops. Fixed.

Peter

LOL? The Evos are spectacular subs. That last 6 Hz is pretty minor compared to the sub's performance in other parts of the spectrum. Don't dismiss it so quickly.

Also, I didn't explain the reason for the rolloff below 26 Hz very well. It isn't because "that" is "on"; rather because it's off. The sub, un-EQed, rolls off gradually below 70. The X1 cancels that out with EQ, adding more and more boost until it gets to 26 Hz. But at some point it has to stop or the sub just couldn't keep up. So the EQ gets removed around 26 or so.

Check out figure 10 here: http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/405nht/index5.html

The U1 or U2 will kick your classic 12's ass. I had an SW12, essentially the same sub, and replacing it with a U1 is possibly the biggest upgrade my system ever got... except for when I switched my front stage to Xd :) If you have a line on an Evo sub at a good price, you're doing yourself a disservice by not checking it out.

Really want extension to 20 Hz? Buy two :)



FR Sweep of an X-1 with factory 27 Hz LP filter, and 20 Hz mod.

Youve got me thinking that I may not have to wait for the Oppo blu ray now. I could get one of the AVR's you mentioned and then hook up my current Oppo 980 for sacd/dvda duty to it and then get the Panasonic bd 35 for blu ray. All of it could then be routed to my controller via the 7.1 analog connection. For better or worse, Ill be without my main setup until I sell my place so I should have plenty of time to research my options as I plan for the media room in my new house.

If the new oppo BluRay plays all the disc it will be the first to do so. The non-elite pioneer player is on sale at amazon for $425.00 shipped and it decodes the new codacs but not sacd or dvda. I have been looking at it but I don't do much music.
Allen

You know, maybe, just maybe NHT is actually doing much better than any of us ever thought they would in the post Vinci Labs era, even in this tough economy, with their current 25% off sale prices.

Audio Advisor may not be the biggest ID dealer out there, but they are certainly without a doubt one of the biggest, and just click here:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/

... then take a look at the top right of the page at just what exactly is their current top selling product (and has been for quite a while now) . :eek:

Maybe this revenue will not only ensure the company's survival, but even help generate the needed capital for the R&D of eventual next generation Evo and Xd lines. ;)

Anybody ever try a Velodyne - SPL-800R subwoofer? I found a good deal on one and its small enough to fit into my space requirement.

I prefer HiDef Lifestyle...

How advantagious is using the NHT controller with NHT speakers? How is the quality of the the NHT controller? I am currently using an Onkyo 906 how would it compare intagration and sound wise? The price is getting down there on those controllers.

How advantagious is using the NHT controller with NHT speakers? How is the quality of the the NHT controller? I am currently using an Onkyo 906 how would it compare intagration and sound wise? The price is getting down there on those controllers.


Ive had the controller for my classic 4 based set up for about a year now and I like it a lot. It is quite a bit better than the Arcam AVR300 I had before it. The only thing missing is full hdmi support for blu ray and surround music formats, but that is well documented in this thread and others. As for the advantage that the NHT specific eq provides, Im not sure since that Arcam had 100 watts per channel and my controller is hooked to a 200 watt per channel power5.

If you dont mind the hdmi deficiency, I think its a great pre/pro for nht speakers or any other speakers, especially at the current used prices.

^^^ FWIW, it was rated as Class B by Stereophile, and they didn't even use it with NHT speakers in the review! So it stood up by itself on it's own merits and not based on any of it's synergy with NHT speakers.

I offered to send Kal a pair of SB3s to try out the speaker wizard Deq, and he declined saying that NHT was going to send him something, but obviously it never happened for whatever reason. :(

We have advised you not to add a Twelve to your Fours because of Jack's comments here:

On behalf of everyone here at NHT, we appreciate Michael's review. Classic is turning into one of our biggest successes to date, thanks in no small part to the attention paid by journalists who recognize the system's extraordinary detail and imaging.

Regarding comments made about low-end output, NHT recommends a couple different options if users want to extend bass output or extension.

If listeners want more bass output or control, do what Michael did, bi-amplify the towers with the X2 crossover and two A1 power amplifiers. This will give them more control of the bass as well as more output capability by increasing the amplifier power available to drive the 10" subwoofers over that of what a typical receiver can supply.

However, if even more bass extension is desired, it is necessary to use a subwoofer with bass response below 20Hz and very high output capability. This subwoofer should be low-passed around 40-50Hz, with the Four high-passed around the same frequency. This will probably require an active crossover with phase adjustment such as the X2, since the adjustments found in most surround processors will not be adequate to properly integrate the Four with the subwoofer. Ideally, end-users should use an acoustic measurement device too, provided they know how to use it properly.

We don't recommend using the Classic Fours with an external subwoofer covering the same frequency range. At some frequencies, the output from the external subwoofer(s) will add to that of the Fours and at some frequencies it will cancel the output from the Fours. The results will be worse than having no external subwoofer at all.

from:

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/speakersystems/1206nht34/index6.html

... however, the Controller's NHT speaker wizard would automatically do this for you, providing the software is up to date of course. Note Jack's comments here:

Currently if you have a tower speaker on the left and right channel of the Controller set to large and you add a subwoofer to the system, you get crap because of the phase problems and overlapping outputs. The new ,very soon to be shipping, software upgrade for the Controller works differently. The following only applies if you have NHT speakers.

If you set up a system without a subwoofer, the Controller will run any speakers capable of full range reproduction, full range. If you select a subwoofer in the setup, the Controller will then run any of these full range speakers down to 40Hz and then put a matching low pass filter on the subwoofer output at 40Hz. This will give the system maximum dynamic range and eliminate any comb filtering between the subwoofer and full range speaker.

The Controller might not be the best option for Blue Ray, but, thanks to the somewhat unique features of it's 7.1 analog inputs, there are even ways around that. It also doesn't (and never will) have room correction, but NHT felt that the actual speaker correction it provides is more important anyway.

But it is still well worth the $$$ IMO even just as a 2 channel pre-amp for any non-Xd NHT speaker. I've found that on ported towers such as Fours, ST-4s, VT-2.4s, etc. it does noticeably "tighten" the bass up a little.

Not only on NHT speakers, but also on the Power5/2, it can even do diagnostics on them if the are connected by the ethernet bus. :eek:

Plus, the Controller is a relatively bullet-proof, buggy-free processor.

Anybody ever try a Velodyne - SPL-800R subwoofer? I found a good deal on one and its small enough to fit into my space requirement.

Never heard one, but I have heard the 12" version of the same sub, and I liked it very much.

With it's sealed design and gloss black finish, it will IMO be a fantastic match for your AZs.

Plus, some may not agree, but I'd rather have a 8" or 10" sub driver with the AZ's than a 12" anyway.

Anybody ever try a Velodyne - SPL-800R subwoofer? I found a good deal on one and its small enough to fit into my space requirement.

Never heard one, but I have heard the 12" version of the same sub, and I liked it very much.

With it's sealed design and gloss black finish, it will IMO be a fantastic match for your AZs.

Plus, some may not agree, but I'd rather have a 8" or 10" sub driver with the AZ's than a 12" anyway.

Also look at the Tannoy TS-8 and TS-10. These super-compact subs deliver nice tight sound that matches the NHTs well. I demo'd one in my home, and convinced a friend to get one with her C3s/C3c/AZ surround setup (small room). I opted for U2s, now a pair of U2s (4 x 12"). My room is not as small... :D

If interested, I can PM you the contact info for one of their US distributors. They're also available online...

Peter

Bump...
Looking for suggestions:
A friend (on my recommendation) bought Classic 3s and C3c, and AZs (for the rear) for her HT. Because she set her room up diagonally, the AZs just don't work for rear channels and she is thinking of in-walls. The IW4s are big and rather expensive, but the size and price differences between the IW 1s to 3s are small. Ceiling is high, in a small room, and a condo so IC's are not an option. I know the drivers in the IW4s match the C3s well...

Peter

I've decided to buy an NHT Processor since I found a good deal on one. I do have a few questions about it though. I have all NHT speakers in my setup so I figured it would be worthwhile for the NHT unique processing the processor can do.

1) How is the processor as a two channel preamp? Right now I have a Musical Fidelity A3CR preamp and it's very nice. I'm also using its built in phono stage. Can or does the processor do its NHT speaker EQ on two channel sources? I would have to buy a stand alone phono stage if I used the Processor as a preamp but I'm probably going to do that anyway. Life would be easier if I had less equipment to mess with.

2) What DACS are used in the Processor? Has anybody used the internal DACs to decode CDs? Does it support HDCD?

3) On another topic how are the Power5 and Power2 amps? I have a Musical Fidelity A300CR power amp which outputs about 250 watts/channel. I'm also using an HK AVR8000 which has a 5 channel amp rated at 110 watts/channel. These are pretty good amps so I'm wondering how the Power5 and Power2 compare. I'd have to find these used but if they'd be a noticeable improvement than I'd go for it.

My speaker setup is 2 VT-2.4s, 5 VS-2.4 and a Subtwo.

Thanks

Never heard one, but I have heard the 12" version of the same sub, and I liked it very much.

With it's sealed design and gloss black finish, it will IMO be a fantastic match for your AZs.

Plus, some may not agree, but I'd rather have a 8" or 10" sub driver with the AZ's than a 12" anyway.



Mark, is there a piece of equipment you havent heard or owned;)?

Ive convinced the owner to let me try it out in my new mini system (AZ's driven by a 1994 Harman Kardon avr15) before I have to commit to the very reasonable price. From everything Ive read it should be exactly what Im looking for...

Also look at the Tannoy TS-8 and TS-10. These super-compact subs deliver nice tight sound that matches the NHTs well. I demo'd one in my home, and convinced a friend to get one with her C3s/C3c/AZ surround setup (small room). I opted for U2s, now a pair of U2s (4 x 12"). My room is not as small... :D

If interested, I can PM you the contact info for one of their US distributors. They're also available online...

Peter


If my home audition of the Velodyne doesnt work out, I found a pretty good deal on one of these from a reputable website so it will be my plan B, thanks for the suggestion. I had forgotten about this particular brand...

I currently have a Lexicon DC-2 processor feeding an NHT Power 5 (great amp). Speakers are NHT 2.9's with an AC-2 in front and M5's on the side. Sub is a James EMB-1200 (great great sub).

I want to add a bluray player. I can get the Lexicon modified to accept 7 channel input and then use a panasonic 55K player. However, I like the idea of the NHT processor equalized for my specific speakers (with the latest update) and the automatic room setup for volume and delay...and I'm willing to upgrade 5

My confusion is how the analog inputs on the NHT Processor work.....are they fed directly to the output OR will they pick up the speaker equalization and delay set up in the NHT Controller.

Just for completeness, my video will go directly from the bluray player and the cable box to the HDTV...utilizing HDMI 1.1 (no sound needed). The cable box sound will go thru the NHT Controller.

I currently have a Lexicon DC-2 processor feeding an NHT Power 5 (great amp). Speakers are NHT 2.9's with an AC-2 in front and M5's on the side. Sub is a James EMB-1200 (great great sub).

I want to add a bluray player. I can get the Lexicon modified to accept 7 channel input and then use a panasonic 55K player. However, I like the idea of the NHT processor equalized for my specific speakers (with the latest update) and the automatic room setup for volume and delay...and I'm willing to upgrade 5

My confusion is how the analog inputs on the NHT Processor work.....are they fed directly to the output OR will they pick up the speaker equalization and delay set up in the NHT Controller.

Just for completeness, my video will go directly from the bluray player and the cable box to the HDTV...utilizing HDMI 1.1 (no sound needed). The cable box sound will go thru the NHT Controller.From what I understand the 7.1 analog inputs on the NHT Controller won't do any processing to the signal including EQ. It does have a limited analog bass management function.

I currently have a Lexicon DC-2 processor feeding an NHT Power 5 (great amp). Speakers are NHT 2.9's with an AC-2 in front and M5's on the side. Sub is a James EMB-1200 (great great sub).

I want to add a bluray player. I can get the Lexicon modified to accept 7 channel input and then use a panasonic 55K player. However, I like the idea of the NHT processor equalized for my specific speakers (with the latest update) and the automatic room setup for volume and delay...and I'm willing to upgrade 5

My confusion is how the analog inputs on the NHT Processor work.....are they fed directly to the output OR will they pick up the speaker equalization and delay set up in the NHT Controller.

Just for completeness, my video will go directly from the bluray player and the cable box to the HDTV...utilizing HDMI 1.1 (no sound needed). The cable box sound will go thru the NHT Controller.

I have a similar setup with the NHT Controller, Power 5/2 and T6/M5s but I couldn't get the 7.1 analogs to work with the Tosh HD XA2 correctly. I have yet to try the PS3 but assume it will have similar issues. I think "mark russ" had a solution using another receiver to accept the new sound formats and decode/process the sound before passing it on to the Controller over the analogs. I reserver the right to be utterly wrong of course.....:)

The PS3 has no analog outputs so you won't be able to use the lossless codecs since that signal is only sent over hdmi 1.3....catch 22. Sure, I could put another receiver in front of the NHT, but then I might as well by an Integra 9.9...and If I take the output signals from that receiver and use the NHT analog inputs and the eq is bypassed, why bother putting it thru the NHT at all.

I am leaning towards just buying an integra 9.8/9.9 and moving on.....skipping the NHT controller which would have been great had they finished the job.

Forgot about the PS3 no analog outs!! I am considering exactly the same thing with regards to the Controller. My room is all HT and 60% of the time it is Blu-Ray. I made the classic error of buying it based on the fact that 1.3 would be added - oh well!

Since this thread has been pretty quiet lately I thought it would be fun/helpful to share some observations of my classics paired up with my various amps. My main system consists of 2 C4's, 2 AZ's, and 1 C2C powered by a Power5 and a Controller. I biamp the C4's with a Marantz 2285b for HF and the Power5's L and R channels for the subs using the X2 crossover. I have been extremely happy with the performance of this system on most recordings (the better the recording quality really makes this system shine). DVD's, DVD-a's, SACD's and my perfect condition vinyl all shine on this system. However some of my old vinyl and some redbook cd's tend to sound a little lifeless at best and cold and brittle at worst. I have been forced to disassemble everything to prepare to move but I had a few days of rest and relaxation to play around so I tried all the speakers with a couple different amps to see what worked well together:


Harman Kardon AVR15 with just AZ's - I was astounded by this combo. For what this system would cost to buy it produces some beautiful music in my small living room (15 x 15). Acoustic folk, small ensemble jazz, vocalists sound almost live. Bass is, of course, severely lacking but watching a movie with this mini setup was still quite enjoyable.

Harman Kardon AVR15 with AZ's and a Velodyne SPL 800R sub - See above, but throw in some sweet, tight, fast bass. Rock, Hip Hop, Beethoven sound almost as good as my main system. I could sell all my other equipment and be very happy with this system for just music for quite some time. Movies on DVD sound great but without the surround sound effects, of course.

Harman Kardon AVR15 with C4's - I was not expecting this to be a good pairing because the HK puts out 35 or 40 watts (can't find any specs and can't remember what the sales guy told me when I bought this one new in 1994!) However, this pairing was very well balanced and sweet sounding. The HK has a warmth that nicely balances the slight coldness Ive always felt the C4's to exhibit. However, the C4's big woofers definitely loosen up a bit as this amp doesnt have the power to control them like the power5. If I just had a turntable and my yard sale vinyl I would choose this system hands down.

Marantz 2285b with AZ's and Velodyne SPL 800R - My fiancee gave me this receiver for my birthday a few years ago and Ive been really happy with its amp section used as the HF part of my biamping setup. However, on its own, its age is starting to show (its from 1978). There was some low level noise no matter what source I attached to its many inputs. It did produce some beautiful music with the volume turned up a bit.

Marantz 2285b with C4's - Im going to have to get this one serviced because it sounds really awesome with the C4's once the volume is high enough to overwhelm the noise. At 85 watts, it has much more power than the HK and is able to control the woofers more effectively. I played some old Zeppelin vinyl at very high volume (neighbors were gone!) and it sounded like the first time I ever heard a radio station "Get the Led out".

I was really surprised at how well the classics sound with a variety of amps as diverse in cost as mine. That Hk AVR15 can be found for about $30 if one looks around. With a good sub and some $300 per pair AZ's I dont think the value can be beat as a small room music maker.

thanks for reading if you made it all the way through. I hope it was helpful for those who are considering picking up some classic series speakers.

happy new year!!!
Rob

^^^ Great job! I enjoy changing out different amps of all sorts (separates, and integrateds) and CD players to hear the sometimes not so subtle differences in them on the same speakers.

I've recently had the privilege to try out a Creek Classic 5350 SE integrated on T5s for an extended period of time:

http://www.creekaudio.co.uk/noflash_main_product.asp?prolook=Classic_5350SE

Great product! Very, very clean, yet "warm", powerful and dynamic sounding. FWIW, for years it has been rated as Class A by stereophile, the cheapest product in it's category to receive that ranking, and it does have pre-outs/main-ins needed for use with an X1. I figure it's putting out at least 135 rated watts per into the M5's 6 Ohm load, but it also seems to be very conservatively rated.

The pre-amp section is totally passive, which, as far as I can remember, was my first experience with one. Normal listening position that would be, say, the 10:00 position on most volume controls needs to be jacked up to at least the 12:00 if not 1:00 position on this baby. You can even literally turn the volume all the way up wide open with absolutely no distortion whatsoever. :eek:

The passive pre-section also works great as an HT "passthru" with an AVR or processor even though, technically, it isn't a passthru.

In addition to T5s, this would IMO also work very well on a pair of Fours bi-amped with an X2/A1s (or Power 2/5) on the subs.

Unfortunately, it's getting about time to have to return it to it's owner. :(

I've decided to buy an NHT Processor since I found a good deal on one. I do have a few questions about it though. I have all NHT speakers in my setup so I figured it would be worthwhile for the NHT unique processing the processor can do.

1) How is the processor as a two channel preamp? Great! That is it's strongest suit. Right now I have a Musical Fidelity A3CR preamp and it's very nice. I'm also using its built in phono stage. Can or does the processor do its NHT speaker EQ on two channel sources? Yes. Edit - just so long as they aren't connected to the main L/R on the 7.1 inputs. I would have to buy a stand alone phono stage if I used the Processor as a preamp but I'm probably going to do that anyway. Life would be easier if I had less equipment to mess with.

2) What DACS are used in the Processor? 24 bit/192 kHzHas anybody used the internal DACs to decode CDs? Yep, a relatively cheap CDP with a very good transport, like a Cambridge Audio 340C will sound spectacular. Does it support HDCD? No, I don't think so. Hopefully Jack will correct me if I'm wrong.

3) On another topic how are the Power5 and Power2 amps? Top notch for the recent close-out prices. I am now sold on Ice power. I have a Musical Fidelity A300CR power amp which outputs about 250 watts/channel. I'm also using an HK AVR8000 which has a 5 channel amp rated at 110 watts/channel. These are pretty good amps so I'm wondering how the Power5 and Power2 compare. Not familair with the MF, but they will, IMO of course, trump the AVR8000, which at one time was THE king dog receiver in HTM's bench test power measurements among AVRs. I'd have to find these used but if they'd be a noticeable improvement than I'd go for it.

My speaker setup is 2 VT-2.4s, 5 VS-2.4 and a Subtwo.

Thanks

You'll love it on those VT-2.4s.

Mark, is there a piece of equipment you havent heard or owned;)?

I still haven't even seen, much less heard (and even that much less owned) M-80/S-80 Xd. :o:(:p

From what I understand the 7.1 analog inputs on the NHT Controller won't do any processing to the signal including EQ. It does have a limited analog bass management function.

This is correct, and even confirmed by Jack a few posts back.

The PS3 has no analog outputs so you won't be able to use the lossless codecs since that signal is only sent over hdmi 1.3....catch 22. Sure, I could put another receiver in front of the NHT, but then I might as well by an Integra 9.9...and If I take the output signals from that receiver and use the NHT analog inputs and the eq is bypassed, why bother putting it thru the NHT at all.

I am leaning towards just buying an integra 9.8/9.9 and moving on.....skipping the NHT controller which would have been great had they finished the job.

Unfortunately, that's all true. The Controller's main use now is for music, or the legacy SD DVD audio formats. If you are mostly into blue ray movies, I couldn't recommend it, even on NHT speakers.

Of course, if Jack's company would offer some kind of HDMI upgrade, not necessarily a full blown 1.3 version, but even one just to accept multi-channel PCM in the new Hi Rez formats if possible, that would solve a lot of problems. ;)

You'll love it on those VT-2.4s.Mark, thanks for the input. I received my Controller yesterday and set it up. So far it sounds great. I have another question for you. A while back you mentioned that you really liked a setup using an X2 and two A1s to biamp the VT-2.4s. Later you said that while using the Power5 amp didn't really get you that much more output it gave you better control of the bass. Do you still think it's still worthwhile to do this? I can't do it right now due to space limitations but once I get my equipment sorted out I'm thinking of doing this.

Unfortunately, that's all true. The Controller's main use now is for music, or the legacy SD DVD audio formats. If you are mostly into blue ray movies, I couldn't recommend it, even on NHT speakers.

Of course, if Jack's company would offer some kind of HDMI upgrade, not necessarily a full blown 1.3 version, but even one just to accept multi-channel PCM in the new Hi Rez formats if possible, that would solve a lot of problems. ;)I decided to use the Controller as my main processor even though it doesn't support Blu ray for the following reasons:

1) Special support for NHT speakers. There's no other product which offers this.

2) Great analog preamp. I wanted to reduce my equipment and this will eventually allow me to have only one preamp.

3) The new Blu Ray audio codecs aren't necessarily that much of an improvement over the DVD legacy ones. There's an interesting article on the web describing a reviewer who visited the Dolby facility and could barely tell the new lossless audio versus the legacy lossy ones:
http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM

Also remember that the legacy codecs on Blu Ray are sent at a higher bit rate than DVD. The only real downside is if you have a Blu Ray with a 7.1 audio track. Those aren't too common. Remember that you can also buy a player like the Panasonic DMP-BD55 and feed the decoded lossless to the 7.1 analog inputs.

4) I got the Controller at a great price and I think its a steal.

It works for me and I think I'll be really happy. A miracle could also happen where a mod for HDMI 1.3a is made available.

Mark, thanks for the input. I received my Controller yesterday and set it up. So far it sounds great. I have another question for you. A while back you mentioned that you really liked a setup using an X2 and two A1s to biamp the VT-2.4s. Later you said that while using the Power5 amp didn't really get you that much more output it gave you better control of the bass. Do you still think it's still worthwhile to do this? I can't do it right now due to space limitations but once I get my equipment sorted out I'm thinking of doing this.

Only if you're NOT using the SubTwo with them. Otherwise, the Controller will put a high pass filter on the VT-2.4s at 40 Hz (assuming it has the software updates), and the Power5 or 2 is more than adequate to drive them in that case. So IMO, it would not be of as much benefit. However, if you don't use the SubTwo, then I would recommend it highly. :D

I decided to use the Controller as my main processor even though it doesn't support Blu ray for the following reasons:

1) Special support for NHT speakers. There's no other product which offers this.

2) Great analog preamp. I wanted to reduce my equipment and this will eventually allow me to have only one preamp.

3) The new Blu Ray audio codecs aren't necessarily that much of an improvement over the DVD legacy ones. There's an interesting article on the web describing a reviewer who visited the Dolby facility and could barely tell the new lossless audio versus the legacy lossy ones:
http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM

Also remember that the legacy codecs on Blu Ray are sent at a higher bit rate than DVD. The only real downside is if you have a Blu Ray with a 7.1 audio track. Those aren't too common. Remember that you can also buy a player like the Panasonic DMP-BD55 and feed the decoded lossless to the 7.1 analog inputs.

4) I got the Controller at a great price and I think its a steal.

It works for me and I think I'll be really happy. A miracle could also happen where a mod for HDMI 1.3a is made available.

All very good points. I know I'll be keeping mine for as long as I have any non-Xd NHT speakers.

Only if you're NOT using the SubTwo with them. Otherwise, the Controller will put a high pass filter on the VT-2.4s at 40 Hz (assuming it has the software updates), and the Power5 or 2 is more than adequate to drive them in that case. So IMO, it would not be of as much benefit. However, if you don't use the SubTwo, then I would recommend it highly. :DI've read this before about the Controller and I'm not sure I understand it completely. As far as I can tell the Controller doesn't run my Subtwo at all when I'm running two channel. It's hooked up to the subwoofer output on the Controller so I'm assuming the VT-2.4s are run full range in two channel direct mode. I have no way of knowing what happens during multi-channel mode as far as bass management goes. I'm mostly concerned about two channel mode anyway. It sounds like biamping the VT-2.4s would be beneficial for two channel audio. BTW my Controller is at Firmware 1.59 IIRC is the latest version.

I happily just purchased the NHT Silver L5s on the killer deal that has been running.

I'm going to run with my Pinnacle Sonic 500 sub and run 5 L5s L,R,C, and two rear speakers.

Should I get an amp to run the L5s? I have 90watts/channel on my receiver coming out.

Also because these are slightly bigger than many on the walls, do you think mounting all thre frounts above the Plasma very near the ceiling tilted to the viewing area would work. You know like in the ceiling wall corner.

Thanks
Matt

Can anybody tell me what I should list three SB2's on CL for? (excellent shape). I have no idea what the used market should bring on these and don't want to over/under list.

Thanks,
jeff

90 Watts should be enough, however for the fronts and center, you might want an amp that puts out more power for peaks and very loud passages. The biggest danger to speakers is transient distortion due to clipping. If you are going to try to play at rock levels, get a better amp.

Generally, you want your speakers at ear level (when sitting in your favorite chair). Putting them against a wall or against the ceiling (or both) is not ideal placement and will wind up accentuating and damping some frequencies. If possible, mounting at ear height and just above the TV...about 1 foot from the wall on the L/R. Positioning the surrounds is less critical...put them where they fit.

The L-5 was designed to be used on-wall, moving them out in the room may not be an improvement! I would agree that they ideally should be at ear level, at least the front three. For the surrounds a few feet above ear level usually works best for HT.

I have been loving the Xd for a while now. i do have what I think is an issue. My Xd are connected into my system via RCA... when I turn off my receiver I sometimes get a very loud hum from speakers even though everything is off (except for the XdA). The hum will last for a while say 2 min and then eventually it will go away.

Any ideas. It only happen when I shut down my system and leave the Xda on. Can't figure it out and haven't had a chance to go buy another receiver to see if that is the issue.

Curtis

I have been loving the Xd for a while now. i do have what I think is an issue. My Xd are connected into my system via RCA... when I turn off my receiver I sometimes get a very loud hum from speakers even though everything is off (except for the XdA). The hum will last for a while say 2 min and then eventually it will go away.

Any ideas. It only happen when I shut down my system and leave the Xda on. Can't figure it out and haven't had a chance to go buy another receiver to see if that is the issue.

Curtis

Does your receiver have an auxiliary 12V trigger output? If so, you can wire this is to the XdA so its power state will match the receiver.

I was getting occasional power line hum on my unit as well, and it took me a little while to track down the culprit. It turned out to be the upstairs overhead fluorescent lighting. Go figure.

Keith

The L-5 was designed to be used on-wall, moving them out in the room may not be an improvement! I would agree that they ideally should be at ear level, at least the front three. For the surrounds a few feet above ear level usually works best for HT.

OK. I did get 5 L5s on the way :)

I'm going to go Center right under the Plasma (maybe over)
L&R on the sides ear level

Surronds in the rear a few feet up, mounted horizontally like the Center Channel, aimed slightly down.
That sounds ok right?
Matt

OK. I did get 5 L5s on the way :)

I'm going to go Center right under the Plasma (maybe over)
L&R on the sides ear level

Surronds in the rear a few feet up, mounted horizontally like the Center Channel, aimed slightly down.
That sounds ok right?
Matt


For the center the best location is the one that puts it closest to the left and right in height. If that is equal then it comes down to personal preference, but many think that above the display makes the center less localizable. As for the surrounds, you may want to experiment between horizontal and vertical. If high on the wall and directly to the side horizontal will let you aim them down. If you mount them slightly behind you a vertical placement will let you aim them forward. Remember, aiming them at the listening position will make them stand out more, while aiming them straight ahead will make the sound more diffuse. Again, personal choice. Have fun experimenting!

The L5 is basically a M5, but as FPB mentioned, is designed for on-wall mounting, therefore is presumably about like a M5 with the boundary compensation switch on.

It naturally won't image as well as a M5 out in the room on stands away from the front wall behind it though. For that matter, it prolly won't even image as well as a M5 backed right up against the wall, cause the M5's deeper cabinet will still stick the drivers out further from the wall.

If you listen to any music at all, orient the main L/R L5s vertically with the tweeters facing in. The CC L5 should be mounted horizontally. If it is mounted above ear height in the seated, normal listening position, orient the tweeter down, or, tweeter up if the CC L5 is below ear level.

I've read this before about the Controller and I'm not sure I understand it completely. As far as I can tell the Controller doesn't run my Subtwo at all when I'm running two channel. It's hooked up to the subwoofer output on the Controller so I'm assuming the VT-2.4s are run full range in two channel direct mode. I have no way of knowing what happens during multi-channel mode as far as bass management goes. I'm mostly concerned about two channel mode anyway. It sounds like biamping the VT-2.4s would be beneficial for two channel audio. BTW my Controller is at Firmware 1.59 IIRC is the latest version.

If you listen to mostly, or even a lot of 2 channel music, then, yeah, it would IMO be worthwhile for you to add an X2 to them. For mostly movies though, it wouldn't, especially since they are high passed at 40 Hz and since the SubTwo controller also has most of the X2's same adjustment controls.

If you do, instead of A1s for the VT-2.4's subs though, let me throw this out at you - use two channels of the Power5/2 to drive the VT-2.4's subs, and get a sweet little tube or Class A amp for the upper frequency drivers. Not that much power is really needed since it would only be driving frequencies over 125 Hz.

What I'm not really sure of though, is if you hook for example a pair of Fours with an X2 to the Controller, and hook the sub-out on it the X2's LFE in and select the Ten as the sub in the speaker wizard, like in the following illustration:

http://nhthifi.com/current/techdocs/NHT-Bi-amping_Fours_with_Controller_and_X2-ez_setup.pdf

... I assume the Controller high passes the main L/R at 40 Hz and sends everything below that to the Four's subs via the LFE in on the X2?

I have been loving the Xd for a while now. i do have what I think is an issue. My Xd are connected into my system via RCA... when I turn off my receiver I sometimes get a very loud hum from speakers even though everything is off (except for the XdA). The hum will last for a while say 2 min and then eventually it will go away.

Any ideas. It only happen when I shut down my system and leave the Xda on. Can't figure it out and haven't had a chance to go buy another receiver to see if that is the issue.

Curtis

Get a 2 channel pre-amp with fully balanced outputs and a HT pass-thru feature.

OK. I did get 5 L5s on the way :)

I'm going to go Center right under the Plasma (maybe over)
L&R on the sides ear level

Surronds in the rear a few feet up, mounted horizontally like the Center Channel, aimed slightly down.
That sounds ok right?
Matt

When I said...off the wall a few posts back, I meant that the left and right should not be mounted directly in the corner against two walls. They should sound better if you mount them about a foot in from the side wall but, obviously, against the back wall on which they are mounted.

You will also want to add a subwoofer to your config...it will make a big difference when watching movies

Hey, guys. Glad to see this thread is still active.

OK. I did get 5 L5s on the way :)

I'm going to go Center right under the Plasma (maybe over)
L&R on the sides ear level

Surronds in the rear a few feet up, mounted horizontally like the Center Channel, aimed slightly down.
That sounds ok right?
Matt

You're on the right track there. I have 9 L5's and 2 M5s in the same room. The L5s are just as good as the M5s in every way except for when you are listening to stereo material. The soundstage collapses back to the wall when using the L5s. I have the front L/R L5s on a switch with the M5s. It is SO pronounced a change that even total noobs can tell immediately. Try the same experiment with multichannel and it is very difficult to pick up the switchover.

I've had them running for quite some time now and am still very pleased. The above is, of course, my opinion and nothing more.

Enjoy!

Are the networks in the Classic 4 speaker such that the speaker drivers are time aligned to the woofer? My distance from the speaker will be either 8 or 9 feet based on this information so I could have greater that 10% time alighnment error. Thank You in advance :D

I have been so impressed with my Evolution kit that I'm contemplating a pair of IW4 and an IWS for a second room. This would replace a old set of B&W 601s driven by some "vintage" NAD equipment.

Since I cannot audition the in-walls I was hoping someone might be able to give me their impression of quality, etc.... and how they might compare to my very modest 601s... or to my new NHT L5s, for that matter.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

ATAD,

Adjust your time delay to be relative to the surface of the front baffle.

Over any speakers full frequency range, there is about 10-20 msec of delay differential. The speaker will have the most delay at low frequencies and the least delay at high frequencies. Because of this, you can only "time align" speakers in a system, to each other, at one particular frequency. In a surround system, since you are most interested in getting the best imaging, you "time align" the speakers to each other in the middle and upper frequency ranges. This is why you choose the front baffle surface as the reference.

Derek,

If you get the iWS, make sure you get two sub cabinets with it. Very little change in cost for a big change in output capability.

ATAD,

Adjust your time delay to be relative to the surface of the front baffle.

Over any speakers full frequency range, there is about 10-20 msec of delay differential. The speaker will have the most delay at low frequencies and the least delay at high frequencies. Because of this, you can only "time align" speakers in a system, to each other, at one particular frequency. In a surround system, since you are most interested in getting the best imaging, you "time align" the speakers to each other in the middle and upper frequency ranges. This is why you choose the front baffle surface as the reference.

Derek,

If you get the iWS, make sure you get two sub cabinets with it. Very little change in cost for a big change in output capability.

Jack:

What brought this up was I was trying Audyssey automatic setup and I questioned them why my C4 were showing up with an extra foot in the measurements. Their answer was to measure to the side firing woofer and bang it was that measurement. But I was impatient last night and pulled the jumper and only measured the C4 W/O the big woofer. Got the same distance with or without the Woofer engaged. Kind of odd it gets my 3C measured correctly. Never had much trust in auto setups in the past so I thought I would give it a chance.

Thanks

Jack:

What brought this up was I was trying Audyssey automatic setup and I questioned them why my C4 were showing up with an extra foot in the measurements. Their answer was to measure to the side firing woofer and bang it was that measurement. But I was impatient last night and pulled the jumper and only measured the C4 W/O the big woofer. Got the same distance with or without the Woofer engaged. Kind of odd it gets my 3C measured correctly. Never had much trust in auto setups in the past so I thought I would give it a chance.

Thanks


20ms seems like allot of delay 22 feet total or 11 foot distance between drivers at 10 to 20 ms?

Derek,

If you get the iWS, make sure you get two sub cabinets with it. Very little change in cost for a big change in output capability.

Jack - If not too much trouble, can you elaborate on these "sub cabinets", as their is no mention of them in the iWS installation manual. Are these cabinets available through NHT or are they an aftermarket piece?

As always, thanks for your advice.

I have been so impressed with my Evolution kit that I'm contemplating a pair of IW4 and an IWS for a second room. This would replace a old set of B&W 601s driven by some "vintage" NAD equipment.

Since I cannot audition the in-walls I was hoping someone might be able to give me their impression of quality, etc.... and how they might compare to my very modest 601s... or to my new NHT L5s, for that matter.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I tipped my brother off to the original NHT blow out and he now has an IWS and three IW2s across the front. He's only feeding the sub 100 watts from his Kenwood receiver (which can power a passive sub), but it sounds excellent and, crossed over at 80Hz it integrates fairly well with the IW2s. The IWS goes surprisingly low with good presence, but the amp ran out of steam well before the IWS. Sound quality was tight and accurate. Obviously with only 100 watts, this setup could not match the sub 20Hz output of my SVS, but, otherwise the overall system was lacking very little. I told him to buy an outboard amp! I can imagine, that two IWSs as Jack recommended, combined with a powerful amp would sound very good indeed.

It's difficult to compare my Classic Threes with the IW2s since they're in different houses, but they can go fairly loud and were clear as a bell with movies. He's not an audiophile, but he was very happy with the sound quality as he knew his old in-walls hurt his ears on certain songs and these did none of that. The imaging was pretty good. Better than I expected from in-walls, but they didn't seem to throw as wide a soundstage as my Threes, again, this was in a different room, though and I didn't have my reference songs to listen to. I can imagine the IW4s would only be better. Hope this helps.

When I said...off the wall a few posts back, I meant that the left and right should not be mounted directly in the corner against two walls. They should sound better if you mount them about a foot in from the side wall but, obviously, against the back wall on which they are mounted.

You will also want to add a subwoofer to your config...it will make a big difference when watching movies

I have a sub, nice one Sonic 500 pinnacle

Got the speakers in today, They are larger than I thought, or even measured. I really want to mount them near a corner now.

Is there a good online sketch pad I can draw out my room config for you guys to see?

Matt
BTW: The sound awesome just sitting on my entertainment shelf

ATAD IO,

The 3C has bass response down to about 75Hz with a 12dB/octave rolloff below that.

The upper section (6.5"+2"+0.75") of the Four has a bass cutoff of about 125Hz. Below this frequency it rolls off at a rate of 24dB/octave. 12dB of this is from the sealed box the 6.5" woofer is in and the other 12dB is from the crossover filter (HP filter) built into the speaker.

Since both of these systems have different bass cutoff frequencies and different cutoff slopes they will have different amounts of time delay at the same frequency. In general, the system with the higher bass cutoff frequency and/or higher slope will have more delay, lower in frequency. This is why the high frequency section of the Four has an extra foot of time delay.

Derek,

The iWS is a system that is comprised of three parts. The subwoofer enclosure(s) (cabinet with 12" woofer), the amplifier (A1) and the active crossover (X1). You need all three to make the complete system.

The output from the A1 amplifier is optimized to drive the woofer to its full output in the enclosure. The X1 crossover has bass eq in it to flatten the bass response of the system down to about 27Hz. Without the X1 crossover, the system will have a bass cutoff of about 55Hz.

A single A1 amplifier can drive up to three iWS cabinets in parallel. If you buy the basic iWS system (one cabinet, one A1 and one X1) the incremental cost to add a 2nd cabinet is very small. The increase in maximum SPL is about 5dB.

Jack:

Thanks for the info I just want to be sure what it means for system calibration.

To get the most accurate measurements due to the affect of the higher x-over in the C4 VS the 3C add one foot to the physically measured distance. The 3C would be the measurement with no adjustments. Also I have a pair of Classic 2's reserved for the rear channels to be implemented in the near future would the measurement for them just be the measured distance also like the 3C?

Hey, guys. Glad to see this thread is still active.



You're on the right track there. I have 9 L5's and 2 M5s in the same room. The L5s are just as good as the M5s in every way except for when you are listening to stereo material. The soundstage collapses back to the wall when using the L5s. I have the front L/R L5s on a switch with the M5s. It is SO pronounced a change that even total noobs can tell immediately. Try the same experiment with multichannel and it is very difficult to pick up the switchover.

I've had them running for quite some time now and am still very pleased. The above is, of course, my opinion and nothing more.

Enjoy!

Here is a pic of the room, The L5s came in much bigger than I hoped. Where besides dead left and right can I get away with these?

I would mount the L/R vertically, centered with the TV and spread out at 1/2 the distance from the tv to the door frame. The center would go directly above or below the tv, your preference. That should sound good and look proportional. Why would you want smaller speakers, I think the size is just right!

I would mount the L/R vertically, centered with the TV and spread out at 1/2 the distance from the tv to the door frame. The center would go directly above or below the tv, your preference. That should sound good and look proportional. Why would you want smaller speakers, I think the size is just right!

That is more than likely what I will do. I thought they would be a bit more narrow, I'm going to paint them which should make them shrink a bit to the eye.

My 505CMX is a really small framed 50" that might be why I think they look a bit big in comparison.
Matt

Didn't you know the measurements before you bought????

Derek,

The iWS is a system that is comprised of three parts. The subwoofer enclosure(s) (cabinet with 12" woofer), the amplifier (A1) and the active crossover (X1)....

Jack, thank you.

That is more than likely what I will do. I thought they would be a bit more narrow, I'm going to paint them which should make them shrink a bit to the eye.

My 505CMX is a really small framed 50" that might be why I think they look a bit big in comparison.
Matt

There's a simple fix for that..... get a bigger tv!

ATAD IO,

I'm not saying that the difference in delay between the Four and 3C is 1ft. I'm saying that it makes sense that the Four has slightly more delay than the 3C. Since every speaker has a group delay curve (delay on the y axis with frequency on the x axis), when you compare the delay between any two different speaker models, there is no single delay number that is accurate since the delay difference will be different at each frequency you make the comparison at.

Here is an example of two different group delay curves:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/trans-f.gif

At midrange frequencies, most speakers will approach a group delay of zero or very low (under 1msec). From that standpoint, you can just measure the physical distance from the listener to the front baffle of the speaker. When the processor is adjusted with this data, all of the midrange information from each channel will get to your ears at the same time. This will give you the best imaging.

When you are dealing with subwoofers in the system, you care about the group delay differences in the bass frequencies. In this case, you can't measure the physical distance to the speaker because the speaker has a lot of delay from its physical operation. This should be obvious from the delay curves above.

The bottom line is, unless you have acoustic measurement equipment and know how to use it, I would just use the values that the AutoCal in your processor generates. Of course checking them is a good idea to make sure that the processor algorithm didn't do something stupid.

Thank You

Here is a pic of the room, The L5s came in much bigger than I hoped. Where besides dead left and right can I get away with these?



Hey, it could look like this:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/662/nht-evolution-l5-home-theater-speaker-system.html

The 2.9, 3.3, AC-2, L5, M5, M6 are all wired the same way (mid range out of phase).

mount the L5's so that the outside edge is about 1" from each wall.....or mount them so that they are on both sides of the TV...a foot in from the wall and the same distance on the door side.

mount the L5's so that the outside edge is about 1" from each wall.....or mount them so that they are on both sides of the TV...a foot in from the wall and the same distance on the door side.

Doing the install today. They sound great with my new Marantz SR-6001

Be sure to post pictures!

Jack-
After reading much of this thread I'm wondering if I should replace my C3 center with a standard C3. The application is behind an acc. transparent screen, on a shelf (above 2 x 18" IB subs) to keep it level with the LR C4's.

For side speakers, should I replace my 1.5's with AZ's, C2's or C3's? I'm just not sure how critical the sides are.

Lastly, do you feel the C4's are superior to the 2.9's?

As always, you are awesome for helping so many of us!

Be sure to post pictures!

I will post hopefully today,

Two simple questions Flpoolboy:
How do you get the screens off?
Also without removing the screens, is there an easy way to tell where the tweeter is???
Matt

I haven't tried to remove my screens, sorry. On my L-5s there are stickers on the back by the binding posts that tell you which side the tweeter is on. The tweeter is on the side opposite the direction the binding posts are pointed.

Mattsam...you get the screen off by unscrewing one of the sides and sliding the screen out...it's easy.

Wrager...the sides are far less critical than the fronts....however they should somewhat match. If you have 2.9's in front, you might want to replace the 1.5's with L5/M5/M6's...because the 1.5 midrange is wired in phase and the 2.9/... midrange speakers are wired out of phase. In a pure world, one will cancel the other out....in fact, if you use the 1.5's with 2.9's, it's recommended that you invert the phase on the 1.5's.

As far as upgrading the 2.9's, etc....your first step should be to see just how well is set up acoustically...because you might do better investing in equalization or room treatments than changing your speakers. You can check on the real frequency response of your speakers and room by using an excellent free program, Room Equalizer Workshop (REW),

I have 2.9's, an AC-2 and L5's on the side. I thought I had an outstanding system...until I ran REW. Now, three equalizers later, I am significantly closer to having an outstanding system. It wasn't the speakers, it was the room.......

I have 9 L5's and 2 M5s in the same room.

11.1? :p

Hey, it could look like this:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/662/nht-evolution-l5-home-theater-speaker-system.html

You still getting an education over there from the self-proclaimed, all knowing speaker guru experts? :D

The 2.9, 3.3, AC-2, L5, M5, M6 are all wired the same way (mid range out of phase).

As well as the VT-3s, VR-3s, and VC-3.

Lastly, do you feel the C4's are superior to the 2.9's?

I obviously can't speak for Jack, but IMO, in a grossly oversimplified nutshell, the 2.9 is better on plain old 2 channel music, but I'd pick the Fours for HT.

Both image spectacularly and have great detail, the Fours soundstage is much wider, but the 2.9 has better bass. As always though, YMMV.

Wrager...the sides are far less critical than the fronts....however they should somewhat match. If you have 2.9's in front, you might want to replace the 1.5's with L5/M5/M6's...because the 1.5 midrange is wired in phase and the 2.9/... midrange speakers are wired out of phase. In a pure world, one will cancel the other out....in fact, if you use the 1.5's with 2.9's, it's recommended that you invert the phase on the 1.5's.

Plus 1

As far as upgrading the 2.9's, etc....your first step should be to see just how well is set up acoustically...because you might do better investing in equalization or room treatments than changing your speakers. You can check on the real frequency response of your speakers and room by using an excellent free program, Room Equalizer Workshop (REW),

Plus 2 - the 2.9s were and are still to this day great speakers. For no more money than you could get now from selling the 2.9s used, they are still better than virtually anything and everything out there today you could buy new for that same amount of $$$.

Thanks to all for your responses. I'm currently using C4's for L&R in the theater. I was just curious about comparing them to the 2.9's as I have a pair of these also.

No one answered my question about the classic three center speaker. Maybe I just need confirmation, but since it is on a shelf, not a monitor, would I be better off using the standard C3 (or another C4)?

And finally, for sides, would the AZ be good w/ the C4's?

Thanks to all for your responses. I'm currently using C4's for L&R in the theater. I was just curious about comparing them to the 2.9's as I have a pair of these also.

How do you think they stack up to each other? Why not set up a dedicated 2 channel rig in another room with the 2.9s if you haven't already?

No one answered my question about the classic three center speaker. Maybe I just need confirmation, but since it is on a shelf, not a monitor, would I be better off using the standard C3 (or another C4)?

I'd stick with the 3C (the dedicated CC speaker, not the Three bookshelf) since being on a shelf is still a boundary, and the 3C already has the boundary compensation "tuned" or built in whereas the Three doesn't.

And finally, for sides, would the AZ be good w/ the C4's?

Yes. The AZ would be my choice for surrounds out of the Classic series.

You still getting an education over there from the self-proclaimed, all knowing speaker guru experts? :D


They get dumber and dumber over there by the year!


First picture is the latest Thumpin setup.

Second picture is the previous setup.


.

^^^ LOL!

Well, you've gotta give 'em some credit - at least they had the CC right in one pic, and the mains right in the other, so the glass is half full.

If they think the Evos are good speakers now, just imagine if they ever actually heard them properly set up. ;)

Here is the recommended method that the S&V experts use to calculate how many main speakers are needed in a 6.1 setup.:eek:

The EVO speaker instruction manual was too hard for them to read, so they all decided to simply use their combined vast experience in all things audio. As Yesman once bloviated, "Instructions? We don't need to follow no stinkin instructions!"



.

Here is the recommended method that the S&V experts use to calculate how many main speakers are needed in a 6.1 setup.:eek:

The EVO speaker instruction manual was too hard for them to read, so they all decided to simply use their combined vast experience in all things audio. As Yesman once bloviated, "Instructions? We don't need to follow no stinkin instructions!"



.

I believe that they must be intentionally doing all that just to pull your chain. Nobody could possibly really be that stupid. :p

I believe that they must be intentionally doing all that just to pull your chain. Nobody could possibly really be that stupid. :p


I have been banned, so they are not pulling my anything.

As far as people being stupid, there are no limits to stupidity.:D


This author thinks that the M-6 sounds better mounted upside down.

http://www.iar-80.com/page109.html

WTF is a "maximum lobe axis"? Are they serious? That has got to be the biggest amount of pseudo-science bs that's just some guy spouting off to justify his ignorance of the instruction manual.

More fun with REW on my 2.2 Xd system:

Measured difference between 040805-1 (135 Hz crossover, factory low end) and 040805-2 (135 Hz crossover, flat to 20 Hz extension) filters. The Radio Shack SPL meter I'm using isn't exactly the king of accuracy down around 20 Hz, but the measured difference is what you'd expect, even if the accuracy might be lacking.

http://hornskeith.com/audio/filters/040805%201%20vs%202.jpg

The -1 filter really highlights that I have a pretty notable room problem around 30 Hz, and the waterfall confirms it. Rings like a bell.

http://hornskeith.com/audio/filters/waterfall%20-%20040805-1%2012%20through%20100%20hz%20500%20msec.jpg

I'm still trying quite a few different positions for the Xd system and have even changed my listening position lately, so lots of testing left to do.

Keith

your first step should be to see just how well is set up acoustically...because you might do better investing in equalization or room treatments than changing your speakers. You can check on the real frequency response of your speakers and room by using an excellent free program, Room Equalizer Workshop (REW)
Do you mean "Room Equalization Wizard" (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/)?

Another bump (c'mon, guys, what does it take to get an answer on this?)Bump...Originally Posted by oldears
Looking for suggestions:
A friend (on my recommendation) bought Classic 3s and C3c, and AZs (for the rear) for her HT. Because she set her room up diagonally, the AZs just don't work for rear channels and she is thinking of in-walls. The IW4s are big and rather expensive, but the size and price differences between the IW 1s to 3s are small. Ceiling is high, in a small room, and a condo so IC's are not an option. I know the drivers in the IW4s match the C3s well...

Peter

Be sure to post pictures!



Here you go, I have three of the enclosures painted to match the walls. I'm going to replace the felt screens next, or leave them.

The sound is really nice. I picked up a Refurbished Marantz 6001 to run these and I'm very impressed.

In my set up I have $750 in the sub- Pinnacle Sonic 500
The 5 L5s ran me only $700
and the Marantz was right under $400
Pretty good set up for $1850!

Kids morning shows, excuse picture quality

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/glore/DSCN0253.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/glore/DSCN0252.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/glore/DSCN0254.jpg

Hey, that looks good! See, they don't seem so big now that they are mounted, do they? By the way, how do you like the surrounds mounted that high and horizontally? Mine are mounted vertically, I've been curious if there would be a difference if mounted the other way.

Hey, that looks good! See, they don't seem so big now that they are mounted, do they? By the way, how do you like the surrounds mounted that high and horizontally? Mine are mounted vertically, I've been curious if there would be a difference if mounted the other way.

I can't see how they would make that big of a difference mounted sideways in the back. My listening area is about 6 ft from that wall and 6 foot down. To mount them vertically I would have to go down into the wall real far to get them to ear level.

I'm waiting a new mic to set the Audyssey in that room still.
Matt

It took a while for all my stuff to arrive (bad weather in the Pacific Northwest which delayed UPS and Fedex for a while) but I've finally got my Controller, Power5 and Power2 all hooked up and running. I have to say I'm really impressed with how everything works especially the Controller. It takes some time to get it all set up but once you do it works great. The Power5 and Power2 amps are very nice too and have plenty of power. Right now I have a Panasonic DMP-BDP35 Blu Ray hooked up via optical for audio and it sounds real good. I'm using the 7.1 analog inputs for my Marantz SA8260 SACD player and I have to say it sounds awesome with a surround SACD. With the great prices I paid for these I am one happy camper. One small beef though. I have the Power5 and Power2 amps hooked up to the Controller via the NHT Bus and the amps turn on and off okay. The Power5 will turn off the 3 unused amp channels when just using stereo but the Power2 I'm using for my back speakers stays on all the time. Any fix for this?

How many of you use an NHT X-1 or X-2 crossover?

Just wondering where you prefer to set the border EQ control. I have corner mounted subwoofer(s), and I use the -6 dB border EQ setting (subject to change without notice).

NHT wb site has and ad

U2 Back in Black $1700.00

Any body know if this is the same driver and everything, but in black.


Could this be the beginning for the riase of the M series Evolution II.

Allen

It's the exact same product with the finish and crossover cup changed to match the Classic series.