What would Alimental say about this?


http://nhthifi.com/current/products/speakers/u2.html

What would Alimental say about this?


http://nhthifi.com/current/products/speakers/u2.html

"Told you so," perhaps?

"Told you so," perhaps?

Damn, beat me to it. I told them to do that at least 2 years ago when they were complaining that they weren't selling and also because we needed a matching, very high grade sub to complement the Threes. Imagine how successful NHT might be if they were proactive rather than reactive. Ad copy sure could use some help. People always comment on how juvenile the ad copy sounds, as though it's aimed at 17 year olds and car audio.

Nope.

He'd probably be still screaming, "No one listens to me!!!!"

Could this be the beginning for the riase of the M series Evolution II.

I wouldn't count on it as that would require more engineering than they have. Last I spoke to them, they were talking about just bringing back old models to fill holes.

Nope.

He'd probably be still screaming, "No one listens to me!!!!"

Same difference ;)

Or maybe "no one listens to me until the idea is so old they can claim it as theirs" :D

Not that John and Jack are back, how about an answer about the in-wall solution in the room where the AZs won't fit. And don't tell me you missed the post (3 times)...

BTW, while I'd like that piano black finish on my U2s to match my Classic 3s, I got one set for $1100 and the other for <$500, so I'm not complaining. And they sound great.

Peter

Not that John and Jack are back, how about an answer about the in-wall solution in the room where the AZs won't fit. And don't tell me you missed the post (3 times)...

Sorry, haven't really been paying attention except for that my name came up. There is no AZ inwall equivalent so you could use any of the models in the line up, plus or minus, though like iW2s for small areas and the iW4s are clearly the best.

I wouldn't count on it as that would require more engineering than they have. Last I spoke to them, they were talking about just bringing back old models to fill holes.

Thats a shame, I think if they just did the samething and put them in black they would sell.

If they brought back some of the old speakers I would like a pair of 3.3. I know this won't happen but 3.3's with an upgrade to be the 2 channel speakers they can be. Plus a real center channel to match and some speakers to do surrounds with them. In fact if they just made the 3.3 and 2.9 again to match the M5 and M6 with a C5 and a C6 what wouldn't their be to like.

If NHT doesn't have the enginneering maybe they should hire someone like Jack to help with this speaker upgrade or just contract him to do it for them since that is what a lot companys like to do now days.

On the other hand that might make to much sense.

Allen

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/glore/DSCN0253.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/glore/DSCN0252.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/glore/DSCN0254.jpg

I really want to thank FlPoolboy, these speakers are AWESOME! There is no way you can find a better deal than these. Even though I still can't get my audyssey to work, these blast with wonderful clarity.

is it ok to have the l5's that close to a side wall? i thought nht recommended them to be around 3 feet from one although i'm sure individual room acoustics would ultimately dictate. just curious from others experience.

I really want to thank FlPoolboy, these speakers are AWESOME! There is no way you can find a better deal than these. Even though I still can't get my audyssey to work, these blast with wonderful clarity.


You're welcome, enjoy!

11.1? :p

Meh, nothing that exotic.

A 7.2 for movies, 5.2 for multichannel music and 2.2 for stereo. Some of the speakers are shared (obviously), and the room is rife with compromises but I like it.

:)

NHT wb site has and ad

U2 Back in Black $1700.00

Any body know if this is the same driver and everything, but in black.


Could this be the beginning for the riase of the M series Evolution II.

Allen

As much as I love the U2, I sure wouldn't pay anywhere close to $1700 for a set. Frankly, for that kind of coin, there are better options available IMO, such as dual SVS SB12s for example which have a much better driver.

Now an interesting option once again exists though. Instead of someone buying Fours and an X2/A1s to bi-amp them with, now they can get Threes with a U2 and even with dual A1s for stereo bass if they wish for about the same amount of $$$, which would trump the Fours IMO. And now that the finishes match, aesthetics are no longer as big a part of the equation.

How many of you use an NHT X-1 or X-2 crossover?

Just wondering where you prefer to set the border EQ control. I have corner mounted subwoofer(s), and I use the -6 dB border EQ setting

Same here for any corner loaded subs.

It took a while for all my stuff to arrive (bad weather in the Pacific Northwest which delayed UPS and Fedex for a while) but I've finally got my Controller, Power5 and Power2 all hooked up and running. I have to say I'm really impressed with how everything works especially the Controller. It takes some time to get it all set up but once you do it works great. The Power5 and Power2 amps are very nice too and have plenty of power. Right now I have a Panasonic DMP-BDP35 Blu Ray hooked up via optical for audio and it sounds real good. I'm using the 7.1 analog inputs for my Marantz SA8260 SACD player and I have to say it sounds awesome with a surround SACD. With the great prices I paid for these I am one happy camper. One small beef though. I have the Power5 and Power2 amps hooked up to the Controller via the NHT Bus and the amps turn on and off okay. The Power5 will turn off the 3 unused amp channels when just using stereo but the Power2 I'm using for my back speakers stays on all the time. Any fix for this?

How do you have them hooked up and in what sequence?

WTF is a "maximum lobe axis"? Are they serious? That has got to be the biggest amount of pseudo-science bs that's just some guy spouting off to justify his ignorance of the instruction manual.

BINGO! He must be a S&V forum member. :D

How do you have them hooked up and in what sequence?I hooked them up per the diagram in the Power2 manual. You have to hook them up this way since the Power2 is the only box that has two ports. I tried swapping between the 2 ports and no difference.

As much as I love the U2, I sure wouldn't pay anywhere close to $1700 for a set. Frankly, for that kind of coin, there are better options available IMO, such as dual SVS SB12s for example which have a much better driver.

Now an interesting option once again exists though. Instead of someone buying Fours and an X2/A1s to bi-amp them with, now they can get Threes with a U2 and even with dual A1s for stereo bass if they wish for about the same amount of $$$, which would trump the Fours IMO. And now that the finishes match, aesthetics are no longer as big a part of the equation.

Yea I thought that price was higher than before. I was trying to look at it as a sign of the Phoenix.
Allen

Same here for any corner loaded subs.



I have since reset the EQ on that older system to 0 dB (20 Hz tune). I crossover to the R&L mains at 50 Hz, so EQ is not a big deal one way or the other (for music). 80 Hz crossovers for the balance of the speakers, and 120 Hz HP for the LFE signal.

However, for movies EQ set to 0 dB is needed for a flat response. My room does not support 20 to 30 Hz very well. That's the trouble with a "room" that has an open floor plan (AKA open to other "rooms").

Anyhow, the X-1 (20 Hz mod) and the A-1 improved my old NHT subwoofers quite a bit!

BINGO! He must be a S&V forum member. :D

This must be the 114th time I've seen the word "Bingo" used by you in this forum.

My two channel set-up is complete.

The source for the XD is a Sonos, controlled by an iTouch, wired to my computer. The Sonos feeds the new Cambridge DACmagic via toslink. Using the balanced outputs from the DACmagic, the signal is routed through a NHT PVC-PRO for volume control, then inputted to the XDa.

All in all I am very happy with this set-up. Getting the DACmagic instead of a preamp saved money without sacrificing expandability or quality. The DAC still has 2 more inputs available and I plan to add a Wadia 170i in the future.

The XD continues to be impressive not just to me but to my friends and family when they listen to it.

The XD continues to be impressive not just to me but to my friends and family when they listen to it.

Everybody who comes into my place compliments me on their appearance. I don't think I ever had anyone say anything about my Threes or SB3s, but did get a few comments on the size of my U1 and SW12.

Not everybody "gets" that they sound substantially better than anything else they've ever heard (the non-audiophiles, at least), but people who take the time to stop and pay attention will, at minimum, remark on how "clear" it sounds.

Me? Still love 'em. No regrets at all on what was a very expensive purchase for me. Still blow me away every time I sit down and listen. Just need to do more of it.

Everybody who comes into my place compliments me on their appearance.

The most common comment I get about the Xd's appearance is that they are pieces of fine furniture. My wife loved them when I showed it to her and that is how I was able to get them installed in my my master bedroom.

[QUOTE=mattwardfh;15688267]No regrets at all on what was a very expensive purchase for me.

This was the most I spent on any one audio component and I think its worth every penny and speakers is where the majority of funds should go to anyway. So no regrets at all for me also.

How many of you use an NHT X-1 or X-2 crossover?

Just wondering where you prefer to set the border EQ control. I have corner mounted subwoofer(s), and I use the -6 dB border EQ setting (subject to change without notice).

You mean boundary...? I have my x2(with dual a1's biamping c4's) set just below +3...as I think it adds a bit more upper bass punch. While you are here...where do set the main gain? Mine is at about 1 - 2:00 or so. Seems like you have to get it past half way to start doing anything but my room is 16x21 with open hall/foyer at front right. The low pass xover(front of unit)is all the way up as my c4's crossover is doing the hz routing within. I have a 7ch amp running the top end of c4's, c3, and ic4's. Pre/pro set to 60hz for sub

Well, the announcement was made that NHT as we know it is shutting down early next month. If anyone has any parts needs, I would place an order right away. Not sure what the scoop is other than that they are shutting down as NHT.

Well, the announcement was made that NHT as we know it is shutting down early next month. If anyone has any parts needs, I would place an order right away. Not sure what the scoop is other than that they are shutting down as NHT.

Wow, that sucks. Maybe they'll rise from the ashes again?

Anything I should do to make sure my Xd has a long, healthy life?

Wow, that sucks. Maybe they'll rise from the ashes again?

Anything I should do to make sure my Xd has a long, healthy life?

Keep Jack's number!

Keep Jack's number!

Yep, that's a given!

Well, the announcement was made that NHT as we know it is shutting down early next month. If anyone has any parts needs, I would place an order right away. Not sure what the scoop is other than that they are shutting down as NHT.

I do and I can't get anybody. I've e-mailed and called. Any suggestions on how to get a replacement mid range for my CC3?

I do and I can't get anybody. I've e-mailed and called. Any suggestions on how to get a replacement mid range for my CC3?

They are swamped right now processing orders for dealers. If you can hold off for a week or so I'm sure that they will get back to you.

March 31, 2009 is to be the last day of "regular" business as we know it. We will have customer service, parts and repair services available ongoing and will provide you with those details via the NHT website.

That's really bad news - was hoping for some type of turn-around. Unfortunately this economy will see the end of many good companies and products...

N.H.T.

R.I.P.

Will N.H.T. once again be the Phoenix?

I hope so!

check out this thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15851782#post15851782

Adios NHT. Maybe.

Hey!

I have been reading this theard for a long time now since I´m proud owner on Classic three pair. I´ve been running these with Rotel RA-1062 but I´m not completely satisfied. There seem to be little lack of punch or power some times. I´m also have DIY-made sub with CSS SDX15 driver, with these.

Now I´m facing very good offer to buy couple NHT M-20 mono-amplifiers witch are made for those studio-monitors. (no speakers on sale, only amps)
I was wondering do anyone have expiriece how these mono amps work with classic threes? Any good guesses?

Sorry for my english. Thanks for your answers.

-jukka, Finland

Jukka (V?),

What's up?

The M-20 amplifier can drive the Three with about 200W. Plenty of power to blow the woofer across the room. The problem is that the M-20 amplifier has eq built in for the M-20 speaker. There is a high Q (boosted) high pass filter and a shelved high frequency eq. It would not be too difficult to remove them from the circuitry. Cut a few traces and add a few jumpers. You will also have to remove the portion of the passive crossover that is in the M-20 connected to the XLR speaker output. This is very easy to do. If you need schematics and instructions, contact me by the ACS website.

If the system doesn't have the correct amount of punch, then there is probably some phase cancellation between the Threes and the sub around the crossover. You will need to take some acoustic measurements in your room to fix this. If you don't have any acoustic measuring equipment, go to www.hometheatershack.com, join, do a search for REW (Room EQ Wizard). Download and install it on your computer. With a mic, it allows you to do acoustic measurements with the soundcard in your computer. It is very easy to use and works very well.

Thanks Jack for your quick answer. I tried to send you message throung ACS-site E-mail form, but it allways said "invalid input"

I would be intrested to see schematics and instructions for the modification.

How would you describe sound quality of the M-20 amp compared to mid-class integrated home-amps (~1000€)?

I know what REW is about. Since I don´t have mic and mic-amp I haven´t done any measurements yet. Those are on my shopping-list so mayby I will solve my problem with those.

I just tested the ACS e-mail. Worked fine. I also just received your e-mail via it.

I can't really comment on the sound quality of the M-20 amplifier versus anything else since it was developed with a speaker as part of the system. I think the system sounds very good.

The M-20 amplifier is a fairly standard design. Class AB bipolar output. Mostly discrete power amplifier section. Decent op-amps in the signal processing portion. Large toroidial transformer for the power supply.

Sorry to break the news but NHT is closing their doors

Khan!!!!

Look five posts up.

This makes me :(

My bet is they come back as an ID brand summer of 2010.

Hey! I have couple questions on my mind.

How does classic two c fit between classic threes? Is there big difference in tone? On paper it looks pretty good, but I was thinking if someone has experience about it?

This may sound weird but how would pair of classic two c:s work as surround speakers? And how about IC4 sealing speakers?

There are some incredibly cheap Classic Two C speakers on sale in my town. (sadly only two c:s and those (IW1,IW2,IW3 and IC4) NHT in-wall speakers) It almost feels stupid not to buy those away.

Sorry to break the news but NHT is closing their doors

Hi Chicagorep,
As your login implies was/is that an NHT rep?

Sincerely,
Leg One

Hey! I have couple questions on my mind.

How does classic two c fit between classic threes? Is there big difference in tone? On paper it looks pretty good, but I was thinking if someone has experience about it?

This may sound weird but how would pair of classic two c:s work as surround speakers? And how about IC4 sealing speakers?

There are some incredibly cheap Classic Two C speakers on sale in my town. (sadly only two c:s and those (IW1,IW2,IW3 and IC4) NHT in-wall speakers) It almost feels stupid not to buy those away.
I've been told on this board that IW4s use the same drivers as C3s, so should make excellent surrounds (they're generally pretty expensive, though). From my listening, I felt the C2s had a very different sound than the C3s, and the Absolute Zeros were actually closer to the C3s than the C2s were. I didn't listen to the C2C, thought, so I can't comment on that specific speaker. You could ask the dealer if you could take one home to listen with your C3s, and if you do, disable your sub since that may be affecting things (see Jack's post above). Good luck. And your English is just about perfect (and a whole lot better than my Finnish).

Peter

ListenUp is the NHT clearance center. Not as good a deal as last year, but there are some good values there!

tempting to pick up a NHT Controller for 2ch music, lucky those seem ran out already :p

ListenUp is the NHT clearance center. Not as good a deal as last year, but there are some good values there!

Regardless of whether it's a good deal as last year.
50% is a big discount.

Question for XD owners:

Have any of you guys run your XD system without a pre amp? Is it possible to hook a CD/DVD player directly to the XD as long as the player has volume control? Im considering setting up a simple 2 channel setup using an OPPO 980 universal player as the source for one of the few remaining XD systems left at Listenup.

Also, has anyone experimented with alternative speaker placement? How degraded is the sound of the monitors if you take them off their included stands and put them on a shelf or mount them on the wall? How close does the sub have to be to the monitors?

Rob, I'll take a shot at a few of your questions.

I do know of someone using a Logitech Transporter as their source for the XdS (sans preamp), and it works fine using only the Transporter's volume control. As long as the volume steps on the Oppo aren't too course for your listening preferences, I dont see why it wouldn't work.

In the Xd documentation, the separation between the XdS's and XdW is really a function of the filter you use. If you use the factory filter (~110 Hz crossover), you should be able to space them pretty far apart. It's only the higher crossover point filters that supposedly require the units to be close together.

No personal experience with mounting options besides their included stands.

Keith

thanks Keith

Now Im just deciding whether I want to buy a new one or wait until a used one comes on the market at almost half off.

The XdA works fine when driven from the variable outputs of a CD player. Just make sure it has a very maximum output voltage. That is usually what we used during development.

The XdS speakers has two 1/4"-20 thread inserts on the bottom of the cabinet spaced on 3" centers. There are a number of Omni-mount brackets that will fit that. If you put them on a wall, the imaging won't be as good, but the speaker will sound quite a bit warmer due to the increased low midrange/upper bass output.

The most important thing about the relative XdS to XdW placement is that both of them are the same distance from you. They can be spread out in an arc with almost no change in performance. But if you put the XdW 3-4' behind or in front of the XdS, the bass response around 110Hz is going to develop a pretty big notch.

I was running Xd with a Sonos ZP90 as a preamp/source and even did it with an iPod, just for fun. Not *the* best sound possible, but still shockingly good.

BTW, if anyone has special dark Xds, I have 4 virgin stands left from the burglary in 2007. And I have a precious few gloss black stands I ordered for the Classic AZ, Two and Three. You can contact me off forum - john@adnm.com

If anyone has a classic 3, 3C, AZ for sale, please contact me. I'm open to M5 as well.

If anyone has a classic 3, 3C, AZ for sale, please contact me. I'm open to M5 as well.

Start watching ebay. A set of 6 AZ's, a classic two center and a sub just went unloved for $600 (no bids).

www.ebayitem.com/110361483244

There are two M5s for sale right now, they look to be in pretty good shape.

Ryan

thanks for the always helpful input John and Jack...now I just have to be patient enough to wait for a used set to become available

If anyone has a classic 3, 3C, AZ for sale, please contact me. I'm open to M5 as well.

Assuming you are not interested in used only, Onecall.com has various NHT in stock including Classic 3's, though oddly "limit one per customer".

:d

:d

Ooh, you're one working day ahead of me. UPS says mine will be here on Monday. :D

How do they look?

Keith

Ooh, you're one working day ahead of me. UPS says mine will be here on Monday. :D

How do they look?

Keith

Much bigger than I expected, but still very cool, imo.

M60?

M60?

More info here: http://nhthifi.com/current/products/vintage/m60.html

and here: http://home.comcast.net/~jhidley/

Here's a pic for a size comparison between the M-60 and the XdS:

Thanks Tim! I knew of the M60/M20 but never anything beyond their existence. And the 2 link is now bookmarked. I don't want to drag the thread off topic but I'd love to discuss with you the things required (EQ) to make these babies perform. Could you PM me or send me an email address?

Thanks Tim! I knew of the M60/M20 but never anything beyond their existence. And the 2 link is now bookmarked. I don't want to drag the thread off topic but I'd love to discuss with you the things required (EQ) to make these babies perform. Could you PM me or send me an email address?

Given that I see an XdA sitting on Tim's shelf, he may initially plan on simply driving the M-60's with that and trying a couple of NHT's available filter options. For non-XdA use, Jack has a passive crossover design on his clearance page for the M-60.

Tim, that thing really is quite a bit bigger than the XdS. No wonder it has another half octave of bass extension, heh.

Keith

Yes, I will be using the XdA to power the M-60s. My goal with these is to basically remove the biggest criticism of the original Xd, which was it's tendency to compress in the mid/upper bass at high volumes.

Jack H. is making a filter for me, and I will post some impressions this coming week.

^^^ I wonder what a 6.2 system of three pairs of those those puppies with three XdAs loaded with the appropriate filters and a pair of S-80 subs would sound like? :eek:

I just wish Jack had the M-80s for sale too. :D

Yes, I will be using the XdA to power the M-60s. My goal with these is to basically remove the biggest criticism of the original Xd, which was it's tendency to compress in the mid/upper bass at high volumes.

Jack H. is making a filter for me, and I will post some impressions this coming week.

Ya know, I was thinking about making a post regarding mix/match filters (M-60's + XdW's, or XdS's + S-80's). Any details?

^^^ I wonder what a 6.2 system of three pairs of those those puppies with three XdAs loaded with the appropriate filters and a pair of S-80 subs would sound like? :eek:

I just wish Jack had the M-80s for sale too. :D

Check his spreadsheet- they're on there. You'll need one XdA per channel, though.

Keith

So are XdAs the only way to properly use these speakers or could another piece of electronic gear be used? Was the NHT Controller preloaded with setting for these speakers?

I have to now find a good price on a Classic 3 as I bought 3 of them already but need one more. Ugggh.

So are XdAs the only way to properly use these speakers or could another piece of electronic gear be used? Was the NHT Controller preloaded with setting for these speakers?

The XdA's are the easy way. I know of two other options:

1) Build passive crossovers (either Jack's design or your own), and use them like regular speakers

2) Use an active crossover (such as a Behringer DCX 2496) along with an amplifier channel per driver. It won't have some of the features/corrections of an XdA, but it might not be half bad either if you invested some time in optimizing it.

Keith

:D

http://hornskeith.com/audio/M60_sitting_area.jpg

I've listened for all of five minutes, and I already love 'em. :)

Dammit, you beat me. Jack sent me the filter last night but I had to spend all day at this stupid place called work. I'm gonna try and get my going later tonight.

Hi,

I see good prices on the X2s and was wondering if it should only be paired with the A1, or are there other CHEAPER options. Spending $1K for all that seems a bit steep.

Thanks.

Tim, I bet you'll like 'em. I'm pretty impressed so far. I'll be curious to hear how they mate with your XdW (XdW's?) using that filter.

jazzlvr4, the X2 is the unit designed to be used with any amp. It's the X1 that has the EQ designed for a specific set of subs.

Keith

jazzlvr4, the X2 is the unit designed to be used with any amp. It's the X1 that has the EQ designed for a specific set of subs.

Keith

Thanks Keith. Any recommendations on a cheaper alternative to the A1???

Thanks Keith. Any recommendations on a cheaper alternative to the A1???

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? :D

A used amp maybe. But the A1 is a steal.

John,

At $750 for the pair, are the A1s a steal?

Well, that's a little higher than I've seen them, but how many other 200W mono blocks with balanced inputs and auto on/off are there?

$750 a pair for A1s is nearly full list price. I'm sure you can find them much cheaper than that right now.

You could try Emotiva.

There was some discussion ages ago (here (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589054)) about the Outlaw M2200 monoblocks and A1s. Maybe someone has comments on the M2200 or M200 (no balanced inputs) as an alternative if you start to look at used.

Anybody who had Xds and can put up with the looks needs try a pair of the M-60s with a filter from Jack. These are where it's at, boys.

Anybody who had Xds and can put up with the looks needs try a pair of the M-60s with a filter from Jack. These are where it's at, boys.

Yeah? Elaborate?

He bought a pair of M60s and Jack wrote the filter to use these speakers. He is stating that they are better than the original Xds.

Has anyone tried the M80s yet?

Well, that's a little higher than I've seen them, but how many other 200W mono blocks with balanced inputs and auto on/off are there?

The outlaw 200W monoblocks are below $700 for two aren't they?

I think they are fine amps too ( I have 7 of them).

Anyone buy the VR-3 kits?

I have 3 on the way, just wondering if anyone else grab some before they were gone.

He bought a pair of M60s and Jack wrote the filter to use these speakers. He is stating that they are better than the original Xds.

Has anyone tried the M80s yet?

Oh I gathered that much. I was just hoping for more info on what he thought and how they sound.

Oh I gathered that much. I was just hoping for more info on what he thought and how they sound.

Matt, the original Xd is a very clean sounding speaker even at pretty loud volumes, but the M-60 is much cleaner and punchier overall. I've cranked them up a couple times and its remarkable how precise and free of distortion they sound at levels where most speakers will make you want to run out of the room. I can only imagine what the M-80/S-80 sounds like.

The outlaw 200W monoblocks are below $700 for two aren't they?

I think they are fine amps too ( I have 7 of them).

same amp!

Matt, the original Xd is a very clean sounding speaker even at pretty loud volumes, but the M-60 is much cleaner and punchier overall. I've cranked them up a couple times and its remarkable how precise and free of distortion they sound at levels where most speakers will make you want to run out of the room. I can only imagine what the M-80/S-80 sounds like.

Pretty f'n amazing. I'm slowly amassing enough drivers to do a 5-way DEQX system. I have the dome arrays from the Classic series and some 5" SEAS W15s from the Xd. Now I just some good 8" drivers and some 12"s.

I was curious about the two filter sets NHT offers for sub-less operation on their webpage. From listening, neither set seemed to match the description of the four XdA positions noted in the user manual, so I grabbed some quick measurements.

The later set (m60-no-sub-8-9-07) sounded like a dial-a-bass filter, and the measurements back that up. Position 1 at the top on this chart, position 4 at the bottom. You can ignore the ~62 hz peak and 80 hz notch in regards to the m60's themselves, as these are both room-related.

http://hornskeith.com/audio/m60/m60-no-sub-8-9-07_filter_sitting_bass_resp.jpg

Here's the response of position 4 (the one I've been using) against an XdS/XdW combo in the same space with their factory (110 Hz, 27 Hz F3) filter. Having the XdW on the floor seems to smooth out the 80 hz notch some.

http://hornskeith.com/audio/m60/m60_psn_4_and_xds_xdw_factory_sitting_resp.jpg


Keith

same amp!

thanks, I didn't know that!

It was interesting. NHT came out with the A1. Then about 6 months or so later, the Outlaw amp came out, without balanced, then later, they added balanced. Don't know if NHT designed/spec'd the amp, or the just took an off the shelf thing from this company that the company later sold to Outlaw. Jack would know.

Pretty f'n amazing. I'm slowly amassing enough drivers to do a 5-way DEQX system. I have the dome arrays from the Classic series and some 5" SEAS W15s from the Xd. Now I just some good 8" drivers and some 12"s.

John, how are you planning to do a 5-way with DEQX? I thought that the most that could be done was 3-way?

John, how are you planning to do a 5-way with DEQX? I thought that the most that could be done was 3-way?

You can do it, but I haven't tried it. It takes two DEQX boxes :eek: But you can see that Xd, despite all that technology, still had some weak spots. A 4-way would pretty much eliminate those, a 5-way certainly would. Just really expensive. That was always my idea for a "SuperXd", but I guess I will have to roll my own. The W15, for instance, is a pretty darned good driver from about 150Hz to 2000Hz, but it is *amazing* from about 500Hz to 1500Hz. Let the dome midrange take over there for an octave or so, let 2-3 8" drivers handle the upper bass/low mids and then insert, oh, about 8 12" woofers and you have a near ideal transducer.

I'm trying to find out if Kim will build me a 5-way box, but I can't get ahold of him.

It was interesting. NHT came out with the A1. Then about 6 months or so later, the Outlaw amp came out, without balanced, then later, they added balanced. Don't know if NHT designed/spec'd the amp, or the just took an off the shelf thing from this company that the company later sold to Outlaw. Jack would know.

Thanks for the info. The $375 is hi, and no one is budging new. The Outlaws are cheaper by 10%

Just bought a pair of Fours to complement my 3s, 2s, and zeros (started with the zeros and moved up from there!). Plugged em in, queued up some bass heavy tracks with much excitement, only to immediately notice something wasn't right.

I stuck my ear up against the speakers and discovered no sound emanating from the midrange or tweeter of the right speaker. I thought maybe the jumper straps were loose so i removed them and plugged in to just the high freq inputs. All the sound came out of the 6.5" woofer, not a tweet from the tweeter or midrange. when i plugged into the low freq inputs all the sounds came out of the 10" woofer and possibly some very faint sound from the 6.5".

not being very familiar with this speaker's crossover set up and not wanting to void my warranty i haven't gone any farther than this and wanted to see if based on these facts someone knew what was wrong (and if it's something i can easily fix like possibly a loose wire). does anyone know if it will void my warranty to open her up?

thanks for the help!

jonathan

Jonathan,

Pull the side grille off of the cabinet. Remove all of the woofer screws with a screwdriver, very carefully. Do not put a hole in the woofer surround!!! I suggest you cup your hand around the end of the screwdriver as you remove the screws. This will protect the surround.

Pull the woofer out. Remove the two wires going to it.

There is a 4 pin Molex connector going to the crossover PCB attached to the back of the cabinet. These four wires go up to the 6.5" and mid/tweeter assembly. This connector has probably come loose. Make sure it is seated in the connector on the PCB. After it is seated, apply some glue around it to keep it from coming loose again. There will probably be very little slack in the wires. DO NOT pull hard or yank on them. They go up through the enclosure that the 6.5" woofer is mounted in. The wires are sealed with hot melt where they go through the enclosure. If you yank on the wire too hard, you will break the hot melt, leaving an airleak between the 12" and 6.5" enclosures, which will cause all kinds of other problems. To get more slack in the wire, you mat be able to reroute it through the holes in the cabinet brace with a different path.

I have a question about mixing and matching speakers from the different Classic series.

I currently own a pair of Absolute Zero's and the Two C center channel. I want to upgrade from the Zero's to the Classic 3's and keep the rest of my system as is, moving the Zero's to the rear.

How would the system sound tonally? Would there be a large mismatch with the front stage due to the Classic 3's and Two C center channel not having identical drivers?

Question for those familiar with the XdA. I wanted to set up the 12 volt trigger from my NAD receiver to turn it on/off. But best I can tell, the trigger output on the receiver side is a 1/8" jack and the XdA takes bare wire? Is there a specific cable I should buy, or just buy a 1/8" mono patch, chop of an end, and strip the wires back a bit? In that case does the polarity matter?

Matt,

My B&K preamp has the exact same output. I found a spare (sacrificial) mini-stereo cable, chopped off one end, hooked it into the preamp, used a multimeter to get the polarity correct on the bare wire end, then hooked the bare wire into the XdA. Works like a champ.

Keith

Jonathan,

Pull the side grille off of the cabinet. Remove all of the woofer screws with a screwdriver, very carefully. Do not put a hole in the woofer surround!!! I suggest you cup your hand around the end of the screwdriver as you remove the screws. This will protect the surround.

Pull the woofer out. Remove the two wires going to it.

There is a 4 pin Molex connector going to the crossover PCB attached to the back of the cabinet. These four wires go up to the 6.5" and mid/tweeter assembly. This connector has probably come loose. Make sure it is seated in the connector on the PCB. After it is seated, apply some glue around it to keep it from coming loose again. There will probably be very little slack in the wires. DO NOT pull hard or yank on them. They go up through the enclosure that the 6.5" woofer is mounted in. The wires are sealed with hot melt where they go through the enclosure. If you yank on the wire too hard, you will break the hot melt, leaving an airleak between the 12" and 6.5" enclosures, which will cause all kinds of other problems. To get more slack in the wire, you mat be able to reroute it through the holes in the cabinet brace with a different path.



I had a similar problem with my NHT 2.9's. The problem ended up being cold solder joints one of the molex connectors mounted on the input cup PC board. They were hairline cracks, but they were just bad enough to cause a problem!

You can do it, but I haven't tried it. It takes two DEQX boxes :eek: But you can see that Xd, despite all that technology, still had some weak spots. A 4-way would pretty much eliminate those, a 5-way certainly would. Just really expensive. That was always my idea for a "SuperXd", but I guess I will have to roll my own. The W15, for instance, is a pretty darned good driver from about 150Hz to 2000Hz, but it is *amazing* from about 500Hz to 1500Hz. Let the dome midrange take over there for an octave or so, let 2-3 8" drivers handle the upper bass/low mids and then insert, oh, about 8 12" woofers and you have a near ideal transducer.

I'm trying to find out if Kim will build me a 5-way box, but I can't get ahold of him.

Interesting design. What is your opinion on the fact that some people believe less crossovers is better? More or less a great design has the crossover set @ 1000Hz, so a set of drivers run LF to 1000Hz and set of drivers run 1000Hz to 20KHz?

Matt,

My B&K preamp has the exact same output. I found a spare (sacrificial) mini-stereo cable, chopped off one end, hooked it into the preamp, used a multimeter to get the polarity correct on the bare wire end, then hooked the bare wire into the XdA. Works like a champ.

Keith

Sounds simple enough, except... any suggestions if I don't have a multimeter? Closest thing I have is a radio shack battery tester ;)

Interesting design. What is your opinion on the fact that some people believe less crossovers is better? More or less a great design has the crossover set @ 1000Hz, so a set of drivers run LF to 1000Hz and set of drivers run 1000Hz to 20KHz?

Well, the school that says to use simple (or no) crossovers does so because crossovers are imperfect, introduce phase errors, etc., right?

But the whole point to digital EQ and the Xd design is to use DSP to make an almost ideal crossover. Minimal overlap between drivers, steep slopes, no phase errors. Of course I'm sure the purists can still find something else to complain about, like the extra A->D->A step.

Well, the school that says to use simple (or no) crossovers does so because crossovers are imperfect, introduce phase errors, etc., right?

But the whole point to digital EQ and the Xd design is to use DSP to make an almost ideal crossover. Minimal overlap between drivers, steep slopes, no phase errors. Of course I'm sure the purists can still find something else to complain about, like the extra A->D->A step.

Thanks, I agree with active designs. I have a 3 way active system myself but Im always curious to what people know about different crossovers.

Of course, Im still looking for drivers that cover larger frequency ranges better.

I have a question about mixing and matching speakers from the different Classic series.

I currently own a pair of Absolute Zero's and the Two C center channel. I want to upgrade from the Zero's to the Classic 3's and keep the rest of my system as is, moving the Zero's to the rear.

How would the system sound tonally? Would there be a large mismatch with the front stage due to the Classic 3's and Two C center channel not having identical drivers?

I just bought Two C between my pair on Trees. There is little difference in tonal sound when you drive speaker with full bandwith. Not very big, but clearly noticeable. When I tried to drove speakers with 60Hz highpass the tonal balance was much better. This of course requires subwoofer in system. I was very pleased with the sound how it turned out.

My system is now pair of threes as mainchannels, two c as center, pair of two c:s in surround channels and DIY sub. Sounds great and looks good too.

Hello.
I just ordered an Onkyo SC885 pre/pro and had some questions about setting up my speakers. I have a 7.1 Evolution setup. M6s across the front, M5s for surrounds, L5s for back surrounds, two W1 sub, two A1s amp an X1 crossover, a Power5 and Power2 amps. If I want to take advantage of the Audyssey room correction feature of the Pre/Pro would I use method 3 from the Evolution manual or should I use another method?

I have a question about mixing and matching speakers from the different Classic series.

I currently own a pair of Absolute Zero's and the Two C center channel. I want to upgrade from the Zero's to the Classic 3's and keep the rest of my system as is, moving the Zero's to the rear.

How would the system sound tonally? Would there be a large mismatch with the front stage due to the Classic 3's and Two C center channel not having identical drivers?

I also started with AZs up front with the 2C, and last year upgraded to a pair of 3s for my fronts. They matched fine with the 2C. I recently nabbed a closeout 3C and have noticed an improvement in the front soundstage, although I also reran Audyssey on my Onkyo 805, so there's no telling how much of a difference came from the speaker and how much from the EQ. There is not a night and day difference between the two centers. I don't regret the upgrade but it's tough to say if the pleasure/price ratio is worth it.

I have a question about mixing and matching speakers from the different Classic series.

I currently own a pair of Absolute Zero's and the Two C center channel. I want to upgrade from the Zero's to the Classic 3's and keep the rest of my system as is, moving the Zero's to the rear.

How would the system sound tonally? Would there be a large mismatch with the front stage due to the Classic 3's and Two C center channel not having identical drivers?

I also started with AZs up front with the 2C, and last year upgraded to a pair of 3s for my fronts. They matched fine with the 2C. I recently nabbed a closeout 3C and have noticed an improvement in the front soundstage, although I also reran Audyssey on my Onkyo 805, so there's no telling how much of a difference came from the speaker and how much from the EQ. There is not a night and day difference between the two centers. I don't regret the upgrade but it's tough to say if the pleasure/price ratio is worth it.
I think the 2s sound quite different from the 3s (the 3s are a little warmer, the 2s are accurate but sound a little thin to my ear), and the AZs sound closer to the 3s than the 2s. This listening was done in my own room and also at a dealer, and I came to the same conclusion both places. I haven't listened to a 2c but others here have said the 3c is a much better match for the 3s. I have 3s and 3C in front, and AZ in back, with 2 sets of U2s up front (4x12" drivers with the 20 Hz mod on my X1). It sounds great!

Hello.
I just ordered an Onkyo SC885 pre/pro and had some questions about setting up my speakers. I have a 7.1 Evolution setup. M6s across the front, M5s for surrounds, L5s for back surrounds, two W1 sub, two A1s amp an X1 crossover, a Power5 and Power2 amps. If I want to take advantage of the Audyssey room correction feature of the Pre/Pro would I use method 3 from the Evolution manual or should I use another method?
I think the 3s and 2s sound closer alike than the M5s and M6s...

Yes, I will be using the XdA to power the M-60s. My goal with these is to basically remove the biggest criticism of the original Xd, which was it's tendency to compress in the mid/upper bass at high volumes.

Jack H. is making a filter for me, and I will post some impressions this coming week.

I'm very curious about the result, if M60 with xda can remove the weakness in original XD. The biggest question I've now is that is it possible to use M60 with dual XDW. If it's possible to use with my existing dual xdw and even with an iota of improvement over original XD with some custom filter, I'm game. Any thoughts?

I'm very curious about the result, if M60 with xda can remove the weakness in original XD. The biggest question I've now is that is it possible to use M60 with dual XDW. If it's possible to use with my existing dual xdw and even with an iota of improvement over original XD with some custom filter, I'm game. Any thoughts?

IMO, the M-60 is an improvement over the XdS based on my impressions so far. I have not yet put the XdS back in since I have more tweaking to do with the M-60s. However, the M-60s seem to have almost all of the wonderful qualities of the XdS but with much more bass capability which allows them to sound much more dynamic and full in the upper bass at higher volumes. IMO this gives a punchier and more satisfying presentation.

The M-60 does not have as good dispersion as the XdS so the sound changes more as you walk around the room, but that is not big deal to me. However, the detailed, dynamic and beguiling midrange of the XdS seems to be completely preserved.

I am using dual XdWs with my M-60s with a 80hz filter. According to Jack the lower X/O allows for smoother integration with the XdW because the longer wavelength means that the XdW and the XdS don't have to be perfectly aligned in order to prevent cancellation at the X/O frequency.

oldears,

My feelings were that the 2s had a slightly recessed midrange. Especially on Keb Mo's voice.

hey all
since some of you guys know a lot about speakers in general I thought this would be a good place to ask this question:

Does magnetically shielding a speaker affect bass performance?

I ask this because Im considering some vintage speakers for my basement system and one of the websites Ive been shopping at says that speakers without magnetic shielding will have better bass response than speakers with magnetic shielding...just want to know if this is true or not.

I'm looking for a balanced stereo preamp under $1.5k for my Nht XD. I posted a thread on this here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1138975

I was thinking would it be better to buy a pre/pro like integra 9.8. I've been seeing rave reviews about its features and sound quality. I'm planning to buy sacd player and integra 9.8 supports native sacd DSD over hdmi. Integra's 2 channel performance on digital domain compare to stand alone modest quality preamp seems very good from the reviews. But the caveat is, it doesn't do that well in analog domain. Integra's sound quality excels for digital input with audyssey room correction. My guess is that using Integra 9.8 with Nht XD won't give very good results. Anyone ever tried using audyssey or any other dsp correction with NHT XD? Did it work well?

I prefer a seperate preamp for Nht xd. Only reason I am interested in Integra is for SACD DSD support. My quest for preamp still holds unless someone had very good results using Integra 9.8 (or similar pre/pro) with NHT Xds.

I have a question about mixing and matching speakers from the different Classic series.

I currently own a pair of Absolute Zero's and the Two C center channel. I want to upgrade from the Zero's to the Classic 3's and keep the rest of my system as is, moving the Zero's to the rear.

How would the system sound tonally? Would there be a large mismatch with the front stage due to the Classic 3's and Two C center channel not having identical drivers?

I have Classic Three mains and a Two C center. The midrange/tweeter modules on the Two C and Three C are the same as the Classic Three, the Two C just has smaller woofers.

To me the difference in the 2c vs 3c is slightly more authority in the bass. Kind of surprised I could tell the difference at all looking at the specs but it was there. Should ba a reasonable match sonically and I was using the 2c with C4's.

If youre looking for program material to see what your classic 4's can do, check out Depeche Mode's "Music for the Masses" album, especially track 11. Clean and deep bass along with some interesting and groundbreaking (for the time) synth work....

I hooked up my C4's, X2, controller and power5 in stereo last weekend. Im using 4 of the 5 channels to bi-amp the C4's. It sounds great except that when I turn on the amp I get a pop from the speakers. Also, there is a slight buzz/hiss present at all times. Its only audible within a few feet of the speakers though. I was not experiencing this at all with my HK receiver hooked to the C4's. Ive gone through AVS ground loop tests and havent been able to find the problem. Do I have a problem with my power5? the pre/pro? the X2? Anyone else have a problem like this?

I hooked up my C4's, X2, controller and power5 in stereo last weekend. Im using 4 of the 5 channels to bi-amp the C4's. It sounds great except that when I turn on the amp I get a pop from the speakers. Also, there is a slight buzz/hiss present at all times. Its only audible within a few feet of the speakers though. I was not experiencing this at all with my HK receiver hooked to the C4's. Ive gone through AVS ground loop tests and havent been able to find the problem. Do I have a problem with my power5? the pre/pro? the X2? Anyone else have a problem like this?

It's easy to rule out the X2, just take it out of the loop (connect the Power5 directly to the C4's, you can maintain the passive bi-amped mode for this).

I have a simple question to which I have not been able to find the answer with thread search.

Based on the response plots I have seen (from Stereophile and others), the W1, W2 and the Xdw have similar un-equalized frequency responses, namely, a -12db per octave roll off starting at about 60Hz (Although the Xdw has a faster roll off above 110hz).

My Question: Will the X1 crossover, which equalizes the response to ~26Hz for the W1 and W2 work for the Xdw? (I am NOT concerned with the Xdw's response above 110Hz).

Thanks in advance!

See attached measurement of that combination.

Thanks Jack!

That's exactly what I was looking for. I assume an X1 with the 20Hz mod will result in more extension and dual Xdw's in ~6db higher SPL in the Xdw's working range.

I'm also curious if the power amps in the Xdw perform any woofer limiting at sub sonic frequencies. if so, is it using the signal frequency or actual woofer excursion/displacement?

By the way have you heard this combination? If so, can you summarize your impressions?

Thanks again.

Anybody here have any experience with SuperZeros modified with a North Creek crossover mod?

I tried it once and it seemed to work okay, though the bass wasn't in the same league as when used with the XdA.

Correct.

No. There is no limiting of any type, other than the stiffness of the air in the small sealed box. It works better than any electrical limiter you can build.

I have not heard it, but it should sound virtually identical to the XdW driven by the XdA. However, how you integrate the XdW into the rest of your system with the crossover controls on the X1 is going to have a massive effect on your perception of the bass sound quality.The less steep LP crossover slope of the X1 will allow the bass tonality to change a lot more as you move around the room compared to the XdA.

Thanks again Jack.

IF I go this route, I will be using the X1/Dual Xdws with an Onkyo PR-SC886 PrePro with Audyssey. I will bypass the X1's crossover (its LP slope appears to be only -12db/octave) effectively using it only for equalization. Instead I will use the PrePro for bass management. Crossover slopes for the PrePro are 24db/octave (steeper, but still shallower than the Xda's 48db/octave). Audyssey corrects in the time and frequency domain.

My understanding is the steep LP crossover of the Xda was necessary to integrate the Xdw with the Xds which have limited low frequency extension. As a result, I believe early and revised Xda's were set at LP frequencies of 110Hz and 150Hz respectively.

My main speakers are B&W 802 Nautilus (not wanting for low frequency extension). For music, I expect to set the crossover at a relatively low 40Hz - 60Hz. From your graph, the X1/Xdw combination is VERY linear and flat out to 200Hz, so I suspect tonality changes with this low crossover frequency and my mains will not be any greater than with any other powered subwoofer.

For Movies (I am NOT a bass head. I value pitch accuracy and definition over max SPL) I will run the 802Ns full range and crossover the surrounds at 80Hz. My surrounds are considered large (with bass extension down to 50Hz) so the LP slope and tonality changes should not be a problem here either.

Once again Jack, thanks for your help and insight.

PS, Anyone with an X1 (preferably with 20Hz mod) they want to get rid of should PM me :)

Jack, when will your website be back up and running? Also could B5/B6 be used with the M80s?

have not heard it, but it should sound virtually identical to the XdW driven by the XdA.

That's what I'd thought, until I tried it. The XdA seemed to clean and tighten the bass (I assume true impulse response correction has the ability to do this), though the XdW/X1 combo was certainly not bad.

I think the primary reason for the sound differntial between the X1 and the Xda is the relatively shallow slope of the X1's low pass filter.

My preamp's is LP slope is steeper, though not as steep as the Xda's. The 24db/octave preamp crossover slope combined with the Xdw's natural high frequency roll off with probably result in something like 30 - 36 db/octave at frequencies above 150Hz.

Could be, though (and Jack would know for sure), if DEQX does what I think it does, it can also correct somewhat for overhang and tighten up the impulse response of the woofer, which would account for what I heard. If not, then, sure, it just reinforces what I like about steep crossovers.

I'm trying to get the website back up today.

I don't quite understand what you mean by using B5/B6 with an M-80. What is driving the M-80 in this case?

The website is back up.

Jack, my checking account will at least appreciate the fact that the more tempting things (that I arguably don't need) aren't available anymore.

Glad I got a pair of M-60's when they were available- I really like 'em. :)

Keith

Hi all:

For a while I have had an M5/U2 setup. Until now I have been using only the LFE input to the X1 and one of my A1's driving the two W2's in parallel. I've had the speaker size set to small in my receiver's setup. I just got a pair of B5's and now I want to switch to stereo bass using all 4 subwoofers. I'm planning to run one W2 and one B5 in parallel from each of my A1's, setting the speaker size to large and hooking up the X1's L&R to my receiver's L&R out. The problem is that, since I have a receiver, I can't think of any way to highpass the M5's with the X1. Is it OK to run them full-range in this setup? If so, what LP setting should I use for the X1?

Jack, I was asking about the M80, B5/B6 combo because I had hoped to buy some of the M80s that were available on your website then try to build the Xd system. Unfortunately it looks like all of the Xd and M80 speakers are gone now. :(

Could be, though (and Jack would know for sure), if DEQX does what I think it does, it can also correct somewhat for overhang and tighten up the impulse response of the woofer, which would account for what I heard. If not, then, sure, it just reinforces what I like about steep crossovers.

John and Jack,

I just realized that if i use the PrePro's AND the X1's crossover (by feeding it's L/R input instead of the LFE input which bypasses the X1's crossover) I can easily achieve > -36db/octave roll off which is closer to the Xda's -48db/octave value.

Of course what the effect of this cascade would be in the TIME domain is indeterminate at this time :)

I'm looking for a balanced stereo preamp under $1.5k for my Nht XD. I posted a thread on this here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1138975

I was thinking would it be better to buy a pre/pro like integra 9.8. I've been seeing rave reviews about its features and sound quality. I'm planning to buy sacd player and integra 9.8 supports native sacd DSD over hdmi. Integra's 2 channel performance on digital domain compare to stand alone modest quality preamp seems very good from the reviews. But the caveat is, it doesn't do that well in analog domain. Integra's sound quality excels for digital input with audyssey room correction. My guess is that using Integra 9.8 with Nht XD won't give very good results. Anyone ever tried using audyssey or any other dsp correction with NHT XD? Did it work well?

I prefer a seperate preamp for Nht xd. Only reason I am interested in Integra is for SACD DSD support. My quest for preamp still holds unless someone had very good results using Integra 9.8 (or similar pre/pro) with NHT Xds.

Look no further... PS Audio Trio 200... I replaced a Brtston BP-25 with this and even my wife commented on the difference... more musical. I think the gain cell technology is for real...

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/trio-p-200-preamplifier?cat=audio

I am using this with a Marantz SA-11S1 SACD player and XD with Dual Subs... simply amazing sound!

Is it OK to run them full-range in this setup? If so, what LP setting should I use for the X1?

Nevermind. Searching this massive thread, I found a post with this link, (http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/405nht/index2.html) where exactly that was done with the M6 part of a T6. Though perhaps not recommended, apparently it didn't suck. I guess I can find the proper lowpass value by measuring and listening.

Hi,

OK, this is slightly off-topic, but I'm in need of a few good tips.

I have a small home theater installment company in Finland. I've been using NHT Classics, mainly Threes, together with NHT and Cambridge Audio electronics. For certain reasons we all know pretty well, I'll need a proper replacement brand for the NHT.

The distributor of Klipsch group speakers is eager to do business and I'm heading to Helsinki for an audition in a few weeks time. Before that, I'd like to hear comments from inside "the NHT family" about Klipsch, Energy & Mirage. Do they have anything that could be a decent replacement for Threes and Fours? In:

- quality of sound
- quality of finish
- value for money

Of course the quality of sound is the key factor, but most of my work is done in brand new houses which means that the looks also quite an important thing. The chicks don't want a speaker looking like a birdhouse in their shiny new homes... :P

Mika

Mika, I don't know that the Mirages would be a replacement, but they are very popular, approved by the women (might be that shape), and would be well worth your while to investigate because they are a good option for certain customers and certain installations (people who want very small speakers and don't mind the compromises that entails; or, where the seating area is large or irregular, or the room is used for multiple uses, not only a dedicated home theater - the omnipolar design helps quite a bit in that situation to enlarge the listening area). So it would be time well spent. As with all speakers, and maybe more so with the omnipolar ones, placement is critical. Mirage suggests it's not, and reasonably good results can be had with all kinds of placements - but the best results require some planning. especially in a reflective room with lots of hard surfaces (windows, floors, walls).

But would say that if you're looking for something like the NHTs (in terms of sound, overall quality and if it matters a sealed speaker) you might want to get more suggestions. None of the current Mirage lines could be considered a replacement for the Threes and Fours in any way, and even the Twos and Zeros are fairly different. And Mirage recently discontinued their high end line, the OMD series, which might have been closer to what you want. (You might ask if they plan a replacement.) Though the Mirage speakers can be less expensive, which may be an option worth having.

Energy is more of a budget brand. Decent speakers but they are far from a replacement for NHT.

I'll leave it to others to comment on Klipsch.

Funnily enough, NHT sent an e-mail to dealers yesterday saying that their reinvention of the company is moving along much faster than they expected. No details were given, but it sounds like we should be hearing something sooner rather than later.

Thanks buzzy_, invaluable information for me. I haven't seen nor listened any of the current Mirage models but they obviously are worth to get familiar with.

And please, I'd like to get more suggestions from other brands too!

Tim916, interesting information. I guess they forgot their international dealers from the mailing list once again... :)

Mika

Funnily enough, NHT sent an e-mail to dealers yesterday saying that their reinvention of the company is moving along much faster than they expected. No details were given, but it sounds like we should be hearing something sooner rather than later.

Yeah, Jack Hidley had a nice site for cheap, cheap NHT parts and now there is nothing on the site. They are definitely doing something with all the left over drivers.

Im happy to have scored several kits, drivers, amps at cost before the site went done :D

I went with the PSBs and Era speakers. Tried Revel, but they were just an incredible PITA to deal with. They kept losing my paperwork, losing orders, changing reps, changing locations. The new PSB Imagines are very Euro (curvy, compact, stylish) and very good speakers that remind me in many ways of Xd, though not at that level. 4th order crossovers, 5" mid, nice tweeter, great dispersion/soundstaging. Their Synchrony models are exceptional for high-end home theater. Klipsch has a habit of buying companies and then putting out crap product under the name. They ruined Aragon and Jamo. I traded in some Klipsch built Jamos and they were the cheesiest things I've ever seen that was't Japanese.

Is there a huge difference between the 2 centers in terms of sound quality/soundtage/imaging? Also which one matches up better with classic 3 bookshelfs?

Thanks John, I'll add PSB on my shortlist!

A friend who worked for NHT Europe actually suggested PSB a couple of years ago and I have some kind of a contact with their current distributor. Would you rate the overall quality of Imagines to about the same level as the Classics?

I agree with you about Klipsch. I've heard that they now have sacked just about everybody at Jamo and the name of the company was already ruined here too.

Mika

I'd say Imagines are in the same league, but different. The Classic 4s have exceptional value for their deep bass. I'd also say they are marginally more resolving. OTOH, the PSBs are much easier to place in a house, look nicer, and do the other things I like about NHT. Very accurate, very low distortion. The Imagines work well in smaller rooms where the 4s are overpowering or oversized. The Synchrony Ones do many things better than the Fours but are twice the price. The lesser Alpha and Image are going to replaced by a more Imagine-like speaker and with fewer skus, which makes it easier on dealers. PSB has slowly been compressing and improving its line which makes it easier to be more successful with lower investment and hassle.

That's one of the other things I always liked about NHT. Fewer models, all of which had a specific purpose. That makes it easy to upsell because people will spend the money if they're getting something worthwhile tailored to their situation. They complain while doing it, but not after it's installed!

Nels07, the difference isn't huge. My humble opinion is that the main difference is the depth. The midrange/tweeter is identical which means that the overall tone is also about the same.

Mika

Thank you again, John. The Imagine S surrounds look quite exotic, do you use them or Bs as surrounds/backs in your installations?

Hmmm... PSB's Finnish distributor's pages are down. Hopefully that's not yet another sign of the recession...


Mika

I've had to use inwalls or *cough* inceilings so far, unfortunately. I'd use Imagine Bs though for rears for a more ideal setup.

John, when will we see the real deals from NHT?

I just came from my local Anderson's TV and they have the Classic Four towers for $397 each and Classic Two bookshelfs for $127ea.

I'd call those good deals!

For Jack Hidley (or anyone else that may know the answer to the following question),

I am preparing to do the 20 Hz mod to my X1. The resistors look like standard 1/4W +/-1%, but I would like to know what type of capacitor I should use. Can you tell me the type (metalized polyester, foil etc. ) I need?

Thanks!

I just came from my local Anderson's TV and they have the Classic Four towers for $397 each and Classic Two bookshelfs for $127ea.

I'd call those good deals!

i agree! I wonder if john has deals like that? No prices in socal like that..yet

Wow, do they accept orders over the phone or internet?

Me? I don't have any NHT product.

Actually I was curious about the previous posters post about Anderson's TV.

Actually I was curious about the previous posters post about Anderson's TV.


Don't know if they take sales over the phone, call them.
Concord
1150 Concord Avenue
Concord, CA 94520
Monday - Saturday 11am-8pm
Sunday 11am-6pm
ph: (925) 825-9300 fax: (925) 677-0165

The NHT's Classic Fours were demos but looked brand new and were still on display and connected to a high end Denon receiver receiver.

Look no further... PS Audio Trio 200... I replaced a Brtston BP-25 with this and even my wife commented on the difference... more musical. I think the gain cell technology is for real...

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/trio-p-200-preamplifier?cat=audio

I am using this with a Marantz SA-11S1 SACD player and XD with Dual Subs... simply amazing sound!

I found a very good deal on a new marsh sound design P2000B balanced preamp and bought it. That was before your reply. PS Audio trio was on my short list, but lack of reviews was a concern. You are getting better result than Bryston BP25 is very interesting! Althought I dont think BP25 is balanced. Marsh P2000B is giving pretty good results comparing to variable out of my apogee mini-dac. P2000B has a rather very long burn in period of ~200 hours. So I'm waiting... Thanks for your reply! :)

Apparently, it's one final journey for the Xd clearance train:

Special Dark Xd clearance (http://nhthifi.com/current/xd-specialdark.html)

Not a bad price for a 2.2 system, and I hear the special dark looks quite nice in person.

Also, I wonder where NHT got 30 more XdA's (?) I thought the whole driver for the previous clearance (Xd parts) was that NHT was completely out of XdA's. Odd.

Keith

Question for anyone that wants to offer an opinion, I'm putting together a 7.1 system, have IW3's for surrounds/rears, 1 iw4 for center....will I regret using IW3's for LR? I had found a deal on iw4's but it fell through and am over budget..Still need to buy L-R..will be using a denon 2309 to power them I think-, Thanks for any advice, I need it-

The iw4s are twice the speaker the iw3 is. Worth every dime extra!

Just wanted to update this thread with some information I got from NHT on bi amping the Classic 4s.

If you have the option to set impedance individually. Set the tops of the 4s to 8 ohm and set the woofers of the 4s to 6 ohm.

I know there was some discussion previously in this thread regarding impedance when bi amping.


Jeff

Got a note from NHT that they are now back online. Funny thing is, it doesn't look like much has changed. It mostly looks like they are re-tooling stuff to be a little more in-house. Most of the same products that were available (classics, architectural) with the notable exception of the Verve line.

Unfortunately, as a dealer, I had to move on. Still great products, but I had work to do in the interim!

I'm not seeing any difference on their site, but there are a couple newish blog entries:

http://nowhearthisblog.blogspot.com/

"We are coming back soon, with a new direction for conducting business. We have several new and exciting products in the works too. Stay tuned, we'll tell you more in just a few weeks." - May 15th

P.S., under Buy NHT they have a "Buy Factory Direct" page which states "NHT Direct store coming June 1, 2009"

P.S., under Buy NHT they have a "Buy Factory Direct" page which states "NHT Direct store coming June 1, 2009"

I wandered by, but still the same message. I suppose it is earlier on the west coast. :D

By far, I don't know why, I still prefer M5 over Classic and M6.
I am thinking about the extra value XD for my bedroom (they really sound so lovely) ; however, all those M-60s talk, where can I try/get them? I assume M-60's will cost 3 times more than XD ?
You guys talk about Jack's website, where is it?

My driver sale website is here:

http://home.comcast.net/~jhidley/index.html

However, I'm no longer selling an M-60 speakers. If you want to buy some M-60s, I suggest you go to eBay and find this user:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120430718995&_rdc=1

The M-60 can be used with your existing XdA. It just requires a different filter set to be loaded. I can do custom filter sets for the M-60 to use it with different subwoofers and/or make changes to the behavior of the M-60 for specific applications. If you use the M-60s without a subwoofer or use it with an S-80 subwoofer, you can download those particular filter sets from the NHT website.

I just want to post and say I finished my NHT VR-3 kits :D

http://www.penngray.com/htroom/100_0662.JPG


I know the NHT VR-3 model is older but its still NHT. Listening to them right now, not too shabby :D

I just want to post and say I finished my NHT VR-3 kits :D

http://www.penngray.com/htroom/100_0662.JPG


I know the NHT VR-3 model is older but its still NHT. Listening to them right now, not too shabby :D

Very sharp looking Penngray!!! What type of veneer did you use, looks very unique!

Very sharp looking Penngray!!! What type of veneer did you use, looks very unique!

Thank you!

Here is the link to the build so that we do not go OT too much here.....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1153549

P.S., under Buy NHT they have a "Buy Factory Direct" page which states "NHT Direct store coming June 1, 2009"

In case anyone hasn't noticed, the factory store is now online.

What speakers would YOU compare the nht three to?
Am thinking about what speakers to buy on september-october.
And what's the lowest price for them?

I know this should be in the subwoofer area but I will ask it hear because I hope I will get a more informed response, do anyone have any comments good or bad on the Classic 12? Also, what about the Sub Two? I can buy either for @ $500 and wonder which to pick or to buy something else. Thanks.

I'm using M-60s and dual xdw with custom filter from Jack Hidley. IMO this setup is a step up from almost perfect NHT XD. Even though I was happy with XDs for rock music, I was missing a little bit of warmth and fullness from it. With M-60 in the system, I get punchier bass, increased bass slam and the fullness which makes it a perfect Rock music speaker; ymmv though! The best part is all the sonic characteristics of XDs that make it a great speaker is also present in my current setup with M60s. I couldn't be happier. Thanks to Tim916, HornsKeith for their replies with M60s and Jack Hidley for making me the filter; music never sounded as good as this in my room before. :D

I'm using M-60s and dual xdw with custom filter from Jack Hidley. IMO this setup is a step up from almost perfect NHT XD. Even though I was happy with XDs for rock music, I was missing a little bit of warmth and fullness from it. With M-60 in the system, I get punchier bass, increased bass slam and the fullness which makes it a perfect Rock music speaker; ymmv though! The best part is all the sonic characteristics of XDs that make it a great speaker is also present in my current setup with M60s. I couldn't be happier. Thanks to Tim916, HornsKeith for their replies with M60s and Jack Hidley for making me the filter; music never sounded as good as this in my room before. :D

Awesome! I missed out on that deal that Jack had on his site! Enjoy!!!

I know this should be in the subwoofer area but I will ask it hear because I hope I will get a more informed response, do anyone have any comments good or bad on the Classic 12? Also, what about the Sub Two? I can buy either for @ $500 and wonder which to pick or to buy something else. Thanks.

MN Dan,

The Sub Two is a sealed system with two drivers and the Classic 12 is a ported system with one driver. I've heard both and liked the Sub Two a bit better. Owned both of them (went from a Sub Two to Classic 12, was not that happy with the change). Then when to a U2, another NHT sealed sub system, much happier with this set up. If you are able to listen to them first, that would be great since this is all IMO (I usually prefer the sound of sealed subs, but have heard good ported subs also).

Hey, if anyone out there is upgrading and wants to part with an AudioCenter-1 let me know. I'm on the lookout for one. :) (This seems to be the closest thing to an NHT Owners Thread. :) )

Thanks to Tim916, HornsKeith for their replies with M60s and Jack Hidley for making me the filter; music never sounded as good as this in my room before. :D

Glad you're pleased with the M-60's. I certainly love mine, even when used with modest sources and in an imperfect listening environment.

The home page of the website (http://nhthifi.com) has a link that says "read about NHT 2.0" (though isn't it more like NHT 4.0 or 5.0 by now?) See below, bold added.

There's also a link on the homepage to a revised version of the store.Welcome to NHT 2.0!

And welcome to our new website. It doesn’t look much different at first glance, but it is, significantly. NHT has become entirely web-based and in doing so has fundamentally changed the way we market our brand. And we’re very excited, What does all this mean to you?

It means our prices have been permanently reduced by as much as 30% from their original suggested retail. You can still buy NHT through your favorite retailer or installer and now you can buy directly from us, www.nhthifi.com, the factory.

It means we have redirected resources at new product development in a much broader assortment of applications. We have about eight concepts in process right now.

It also means no matter where you buy, your NHT speakers will be delivered to your home or job site direct from our factory. It makes sense. The speakers take a single trip, which saves energy, saves money, saves time…everybody benefits.

Our web business is going to be a “living” process, lots more change and adjustments to come. You can help. First, help us spread the word. Second, give us feedback. There is a review section on each product page, write one if you can. If there is something you think we should be doing and are not, write us at bizdev@nhthifi.com.

Thanks to so many for all the kind words of encouragement. It’s good to be back.

Regards,
Chris Byrne
Co-Founder, NHTThe part about delivery from the factory is interesting, I could imagine they were trying to think of some way to work with the dealers they still have.

There's also a speaker called the OutdoorOne (http://store.nhthifi.com/OutdoorOne) listed for September, is that new or a product they already had?

What speakers would YOU compare the nht three to?
Am thinking about what speakers to buy on september-october.
And what's the lowest price for them?

Anyone?

The home page of the website (http://nhthifi.com) has a link that says "read about NHT 2.0" (though isn't it more like NHT 4.0 or 5.0 by now?) See below, bold added.

There's also a link on the homepage to a revised version of the store.The part about delivery from the factory is interesting, I could imagine they were trying to think of some way to work with the dealers they still have.

There's also a speaker called the OutdoorOne (http://store.nhthifi.com/OutdoorOne) listed for September, is that new or a product they already had?

The Outdoor One is an older product (back when the superzeros/superones were in, that's two renditions ago, three if you count the Evolution series). After that series came the SB and Evolution series then the Classics and Xd's.

Anyone?

There's not much you can compare them to. If you want the best soundstaging, resolution, range possible in the under $2K range, they're it. They do have tiny flaws that some don't like and other speakers may not have and they're not euphonic, but they're a true audiophile caliber speaker, not a half-baked 2-way ported speaker.

The Outdoor One is an older product (back when the superzeros/superones were in, that's two renditions ago, three if you count the Evolution series). After that series came the SB and Evolution series then the Classics and Xd's.

Older being like back when Monica Lewinsky was just an intern!

Older being like back when Monica Lewinsky was just an intern!

:)

Anyone?

I've compared it to many of the paradigms, PSBs, energy bookshelves and i preferred the C3 to all of these. I had them a couple of years back, and sold them just see what else was around. I have tried more than a few speakers, and have recently come back to the same NHT setup (C3, C3c, AZ). For the money, this is a class leader. I have placement issues in the sense that i have to stuff them pretty close to the walls .. and in this environment, only NHT performed well. I don't see myself selling this for a long long time.

And oh, they look great as well. It makes getting permission from SO that much more easier.

Anyone knows where I can get the K5 kit for the evolution B5 subwoofers? I need those feet damn it!!

We have a TON of them in stock (seriously)... give us a shout on Monday and we'll send some out to you.

We have a TON of them in stock (seriously)... give us a shout on Monday and we'll send some out to you.

No affiliation...
I had 2 out of 2 excellent experiences buying NHT from HiDefLifestyle.
Peter

No affiliation...
I had 2 out of 2 excellent experiences buying NHT from HiDefLifestyle.
Peter

+1. Great to deal with, well packed, and very quick shipping (which is pretty much free with most products)!!! Also NO affiliation.

Ray

Here we go again....lol; maybe Chris has finally listened to all of us. Prices are down too.

http://nhthifi.com/current/nht-2point0.html


--------------------------------
Welcome to NHT 2.0!

And welcome to our new website. It doesn’t look much different at first glance, but it is, significantly. NHT has become entirely web-based and in doing so has fundamentally changed the way we market our brand. And we’re very excited,
What does all this mean to you?
It means our prices have been permanently reduced by as much as 30% from their original suggested retail. You can still buy NHT through your favorite retailer or installer and now you can buy directly from the factory. (http://store.nhthifi.com)
It means we have redirected resources at new product development in a much broader assortment of applications. We have about eight concepts in process right now. It also means no matter where you buy, your NHT speakers will be delivered to your home or job site direct from our factory. It makes sense. The speakers take a single trip, which saves energy, saves money, saves time…everybody benefits.
Our web business is going to be a “living” process, lots more change and adjustments to come. You can help. First, help us spread the word. Second, give us feedback. There is a review section on each product page, write one if you can. If there is something you think we should be doing and are not, write us at bizdev@nhthifi.com (bizdev@nhthifi.com).
Thanks to so many for all the kind words of encouragement. It’s good to be back.
Regards,
Chris Byrne
Co-Founder, NHT

Did you check out the NHT Xd Special Dark system they are selling for $3000? Comes with 2 subs as well instead of just one which came with the original system. For $3000 this is an absolute steal.

http://nhthifi.com/current/s-xd.html

That's a very good deal. Now where's the all black darth vader model? :)

Does anyone know where I can pick up a pair of black L5s? I finished my basement and I want to upgrade to 7 channel surround.

Are there any other alternatives for the surround back speakers that would sound okay with the evolution system?

Does anyone know where I can pick up a pair of black L5s? I finished my basement and I want to upgrade to 7 channel surround.

Are there any other alternatives for the surround back speakers that would sound okay with the evolution system?

I have a pair I'm not using, actually I have 5 in black and 2 in silver! Let me know if you're interested in any.

Alimental, what say you about the Classic 3 vs the PSB Imagine B?

Just received notification from NHT that I purchased the last remaining special dark NHT xd system direct from NHT. Apparently they have a few original Xd's left.

hi everyone , i have 2.9 and m5 both . anyone know how to place the m5 that can sound better? because i will say 2.9 sounds better in music? thanks

Alimental, what say you about the Classic 3 vs the PSB Imagine B?

I'd say the NHT is the better overall speaker, though the Imagine B is better in some ways. NHT has deeper, better bass, the PSB is maybe a bit more 'coherent' in some areas. The PSBs, I think, image as well or better and that's saying something and have just as big a sweetspot if not bigger. I think the PSBs might have the better tonal balance in the mid/treble (by a tiny amount), but the NHT has notably better bass. I think the NHTs are also more resolving. So it depends on the use/taste to some degree, but the Three is still the speaker to beat IMO.

I'd say the NHT is the better overall speaker, though the Imagine B is better in some ways. NHT has deeper, better bass, the PSB is maybe a bit more 'coherent' in some areas. The PSBs, I think, image as well or better and that's saying something and have just as big a sweetspot if not bigger. I think the PSBs might have the better tonal balance in the mid/treble (by a tiny amount), but the NHT has notably better bass. I think the NHTs are also more resolving. So it depends on the use/taste to some degree, but the Three is still the speaker to beat IMO.

Hey Ali -

Knowing that you have always been an advocate for NHT, I just wanted to pass along my praise for the Classic Two. My friend just bought a pair for his apartment. I went to his place to help him set them up and I have to say they are just a great little speaker. Balanced, detailed, and good bottom end.

How does the Classic Three improve on the sound of the Two? You mentioned in an earlier post that the Three's have some "tiny flaws" (all speakers do). What are they?

For comparision's sake, which bookshelf speaker, at any price, do you like better (excluding the XD)?

How does the Classic Three improve on the sound of the Two? You mentioned in an earlier post that the Three's have some "tiny flaws" (all speakers do). What are they?

More detail, better imaging/soundstaging, deeper bass. Flaws? Have a slight bump in the upper mids, could use a bit more integration between the bass/mid.

For comparision's sake, which bookshelf speaker, at any price, do you like better (excluding the XD)?

I'm not so sure there is a bookshelf speaker I like better than the Three. Not that I've heard a/bed with them. I've heard towers I like better. Xd is better. JMLab Utopia bookshelves might be better in some ways, but fall flat in others. None of the B&Ws. I've heard quite a few $1000-$2000 bookshelf speakers, some normal, like Paradigms or Epos, others more exotic like some horn loaded things I can't remember. All they did was make Threes sound that much more impressive. The ImagineBs give them a good go in the mids/treble/soundstaging/imaging, but ultimately don't quite do it primarily because they have a peakier bass that the Threes don't. The highly regarded PSB Synchrony Two is much closer, though does lack some of the resolution in exchange for some improved coherency.

The thing that puts the Three ahead is that it has all the elements of a high-end tower, that is, it's a 3-way with sealed bass/mid. Hard for a ported 2-way to compete with that. Other companies could do it, they just don't. They reserve that design only for their high-end towers, which is a shame. No NHT magic™ here, just good engineering/design. I would say the speaker that is likely to be better is the Vivid Audio monitor that uses a similar driver design/layout, but at over $10K/pair. Not sure whatever happened to the Energy 3-ways.

More detail, better imaging/soundstaging, deeper bass. Flaws? Have a slight bump in the upper mids, could use a bit more integration between the bass/mid.

Any sort of subjective harshness from the upper-mid bump, or does it just bring that part of range forward a bit? Any sort of edginess, or glare?

How do they handle high volumes in a medium sized room, say for movie playback paired with a sub?


I'm not so sure there is a bookshelf speaker I like better than the Three. Not that I've heard a/bed with them. I've heard towers I like better. Xd is better. JMLab Utopia bookshelves might be better in some ways, but fall flat in others. None of the B&Ws. I've heard quite a few $1000-$2000 bookshelf speakers, some normal, like Paradigms or Epos, others more exotic like some horn loaded things I can't remember. All they did was make Threes sound that much more impressive. The ImagineBs give them a good go in the mids/treble/soundstaging/imaging, but ultimately don't quite do it primarily because they have a peakier bass that the Threes don't. The highly regarded PSB Synchrony Two is much closer, though does lack some of the resolution in exchange for some improved coherency.

The thing that puts the Three ahead is that it has all the elements of a high-end tower, that is, it's a 3-way with sealed bass/mid. Hard for a ported 2-way to compete with that. Other companies could do it, they just don't. They reserve that design only for their high-end towers, which is a shame. No NHT magic™ here, just good engineering/design. I would say the speaker that is likely to be better is the Vivid Audio monitor that uses a similar driver design/layout, but at over $10K/pair. Not sure whatever happened to the Energy 3-ways.

Thanks for the comparisons. I've heard the PSB Synchrony's, and thought they were very listenable speakers, but as you said, they don't have quite the resolution or sparkle that like.

I also loved the Energy Veritas with the domed mid. Almost bought them about 7 years ago, but went with the Paradigms instead. The build quality on the Energys was not very good, and lots of frozen mid drivers reported.

Vivid . . . ah yes, forgot about those guys. Ex BW Nautilus designer right?

Any sort of subjective harshness from the upper-mid bump, or does it just bring that part of range forward a bit? Any sort of edginess, or glare?

Very little. There's some, sure, but very minor. But when you hear compared to a 5" or 6" cone, you hear just how *clean* it is by comparison.

How do they handle high volumes in a medium sized room, say for movie playback paired with a sub?

Pretty well. The 6" is vulnerable at 80Hz at very high disco volumes. The 2" dome will usually blow first if you switch to a 100Hz or up crossover. Ask me how I know......

Thanks for the comparisons. I've heard the PSB Synchrony's, and thought they were very listenable speakers, but as you said, they don't have quite the resolution or sparkle that like.

They're definitely on the smoother/lusher side with very good upper midrange resonance control. BUT....when you compare Synchronies to other 2-ways, they sound better and better. If you stop expecting the 'sparkle', they get quite good!

I also loved the Energy Veritas with the domed mid. Almost bought them about 7 years ago, but went with the Paradigms instead. The build quality on the Energys was not very good, and lots of frozen mid drivers reported.

They always had a way of taking a good idea and not following through the whole way. Domes are tricky.

Vivid . . . ah yes, forgot about those guys. Ex BW Nautilus designer right?

Correct. Not the Nautilus series, but the original Nautilus. I'd love to hear them. Hideous looking. The top end models look like a seahorse screwed a Hershey's Kiss.

Pretty well. The 6" is vulnerable at 80Hz at very high disco volumes. The 2" dome will usually blow first if you switch to a 100Hz or up crossover. Ask me how I know......

Alright now I want details. :)

They're definitely on the smoother/lusher side with very good upper midrange resonance control. BUT....when you compare Synchronies to other 2-ways, they sound better and better. If you stop expecting the 'sparkle', they get quite good!


The FR graphs show that they are a bit rolled off on top. I'm sure the sparkle is something that could be addressed with EQ.

Correct. Not the Nautilus series, but the original Nautilus. I'd love to hear them. Hideous looking. The top end models look like a seahorse screwed a Hershey's Kiss.

Yes, the cheese danish looking BW, not the 800 series. I've always thought the Vivids looked like speakers that would be in the underworld city in the movie the Abyss, but I like your description better. If I were drinking at the time that I read your last comment, I'd be cleaning off my monitor right now. :D

BTW - Do you still sell NHT? There site says dealers still can, but they are also available direct. How does that work? Doesn't seem very profitable.

After reading the majority of this thread and seeing the great deals on NHT right now, I decided to try out a pair of Classic 4's to see what the hype was about. These speakers are simply beautiful, and I absolutely love their sound - they are now in my top 2 favorite speakers, and on some days, they are my true top favorite. In response to the inquiry above about bookshelf speaker recommendations, the only bookshelf speaker I might enjoy more, would be the RM7 line from Joseph Audio (see josephaudio.com), especially when paired with an excellent separate powered subwoofer. In fairness however, the Joseph Audio line does cost more, and uses what is called the "Infinite Slope" crossover system - which eliminates driver interaction and brings out an incredible amount of resolution and "you-are-actually-there" musical feeling. It's extremely difficult to describe good sound with words - but the Joseph Audio speakers just seem to make the room sound alive with music in a way that no other speakers I've ever heard have been able to quite match (although the NHT Classics come very, very close). Aside from the Joseph Audio line, these NHT Classic speakers are the only others I would unreservedly recommend for sound quality. As far as looks go, these Classic speakers are much nicer to look at than *any* other speaker I've ever seen - my wife loves them too. When you finally also factor in the price, the Classics are simply the best deal I've ever seen in audio. If anyone out there is looking for fantastic speakers at a steal of a price, you should be all over these NHT Classics.

Anyway, subjective as it is, I hope this info might still help someone! :)

Edit: I'm still laughing at that final line in Alimentall's last post above!

Correct. Not the Nautilus series, but the original Nautilus. I'd love to hear them. Hideous looking. The top end models look like a seahorse screwed a Hershey's Kiss.





Link to Captain Nemo's Nautilus Speakers (http://www.ehifi.com.au/b-w/PrestigeSeries/nautilus.aspx)

Link to Captain Nemo's Nautilus Speakers (http://www.ehifi.com.au/b-w/PrestigeSeries/nautilus.aspx)

Actually, Alimentall was referring to these beauties by Vivid Audio:

http://www.avrev.com/images/stories/news/May09/altavoces-vivid-audio.jpg

Haven't read a whole lot of the thread just bits and pieces here and there when I was looking for new speakers. After much auditioning my wife and I decided on the Classic Fours. What a beautiful looking speaker!! The sound from these speakers for the price is unreal to my ears. We listen to a lot of live performances, many many we attended, and the sound makes you feel as though you are right in the audience again! Had to move my sub to set these up and still have yet to hook it back up the low end is that good. There has been only a couple of times I would have liked a dedicated sub. Can't wait to get the matching center. Anyone have any experience with the C Three center? I would have no reservation recommending these to anyone.

This is OT but if anyone is looking to upgrade their Sub Two I'm looking for one to buy.

I am now considering buying 2 of the NHT A1 amps and have a question please for any current A1 owners. Do the transformers of the A1's exhibit any mechanical buzz or hum from within the units? Several years ago I tried the Outlaw Audio version of these amps, but had to return them because their internal pancake-style transformers made a vibrational buzzing/humming sound that was audible from within the amps during quiet moments in music. I am looking for absolute silence from amps if possible. Can any A1 owners please comment? Thank you very much, in advance.

I have A1 amps powering all my speakers and yes, I've noticed a slight "buzz" from the amps. However, I only hear this when I am directly next to the amp (my ear is a foot or two away). It has never been an issue with quiet passages during a movie.

The problem wasn't in the amplifier. It was probably that you had a cheap lamp with a dimmer on it plugged into the same outlet as the amplifiers. The dimmers in cheap lamps (such as the torche models), cause DC voltage on the outlet they are plugged into. This DC voltage causes the transformer to buzz.

The problem wasn't in the amplifier. It was probably that you had a cheap lamp with a dimmer on it plugged into the same outlet as the amplifiers. The dimmers in cheap lamps (such as the torche models), cause DC voltage on the outlet they are plugged into. This DC voltage causes the transformer to buzz.

I think that's Jack-speak for, you shouldn't have a buzz or hum.

Thanks "plain fan" - your experience is very similar to what I remember, so I'm thinking these A1 amps probably still just simply do that buzzing thing.

Hi Jack, actually the buzzing transformers really was an aspect of the amplifiers themselves - I know what you are describing about dimmers etc, and we have no dimmers or other DC-leaking devices like that on our line. The people at Outlaw Audio (who sell essentially the same amp as the A1) mentioned that the pancake-style transformers used, simply did frequently exhibit a mechanical buzz, and it further was a commonly-reported issue by users of those amps - there was no "fix" for it. Just in case a possible external DC source was an issue, we last-resort tried various conditioners and DC-blockers (like the DC-blocking device from PS Audio for instance), but these did not stop or change the buzz from those amps at all. Re-seating the transformers did not help either. Neither did plugging them in at other people's homes for a comparison test, nor did switching them with a new pair from Outlaw Audio. Apparently some types of transformers are just more susceptible to mechanical buzz than others. Our previous and current non-A1 amplifiers do not exhibit any such mechanical buzz at all (thankfully). I was mostly interested in considering the A1's for convenience, as in hiding under furniture and using the signal-sense feature - but I absolutely hate any mechanical hum/buzz from my equipment. So since the A1 design probably hasn't changed in this respect, I will just "leave well enough alone" and keep my current stereo amp which we are happy with anyway. :)

We've sold *hundreds* of A1s and had essentially zero hums. It's not impossible to have a mechanical hum with these types of transformers, but we honestly haven't run into it. To be honest, I can't remember *any* instance of audible hum from these amps, but having sold so many, I'd assume there must be a case somewhere or another of one that hummed at least a little.

Is the U2 system a good deal? Was it a lot cheaper before?

I just tried two separate A1s and each have an audible "noise." I hum or a buzz wouldn't exactly be a good term for it but it is certainly a "noise." All of the amps are plugged into the same power supply so I guess something could be creating the interference that Jack describes. I'll try to do some testing later this week or weekend on different power outlets.

I wouldn't mind adding a U2 system to my setup. I have a pair of L5s heading my direction so they would add nicely to those...

For a set up that has the Classic 4's for L/R duty is the TWO C a good match or should one use the THREE C for a better all round match. It does not appear to be a huge difference between the two, just the size of the woofer. It appears to have the same mid range/tweeter assembly that is used in the 4's. I also see that the Three is advertised as the match for the 3's and 4's and the 2 is advertised for the 2 or 3's. I have just recently aquired the Fours and would like to match the center sooner rather than later. Thanks in advance for any input.

For a set up that has the Classic 4's for L/R duty is the TWO C a good match or should one use the THREE C for a better all round match. It does not appear to be a huge difference between the two, just the size of the woofer. It appears to have the same mid range/tweeter assembly that is used in the 4's. I also see that the Three is advertised as the match for the 3's and 4's and the 2 is advertised for the 2 or 3's. I have just recently aquired the Fours and would like to match the center sooner rather than later. Thanks in advance for any input.

For home theater, it is always best to get the center that is meant to match your L/R speaker, so the 3C would be best. In addition, you want the center to be capable of high-output, and with the larger bass drivers in the 3C, it will be capable of higher output.

Thanks HI-FI, this is what I thought but figured I would check. My local dealer has a great price on the three right now anyhow but in case I miss it I figured I would see waht others say.

Hi Bigbare,

Tim is correct, get the matching center. The TwoC is missing the domed midrange so timber is slightly different than the Threes/Fours. Also, you can use the Three instead of the ThreeC if it will work with your setup.

Ray

We have a TON of them in stock (seriously)... give us a shout on Monday and we'll send some out to you.

I'm looking for the K5 kit as well. I don't need the feet, but I need the bracket that attaches the M5 to the B5. Do you have a pair of those?

Yes, we do have some K5 Kits left. Give us a shout if you want us to send you one or two of them.

For a set up that has the Classic 4's for L/R duty is the TWO C a good match or should one use the THREE C for a better all round match. It does not appear to be a huge difference between the two, just the size of the woofer. It appears to have the same mid range/tweeter assembly that is used in the 4's. I also see that the Three is advertised as the match for the 3's and 4's and the 2 is advertised for the 2 or 3's. I have just recently aquired the Fours and would like to match the center sooner rather than later. Thanks in advance for any input.

Just curious (and asked in another thread) - has anyone used Classic 3s or 2s as surrounds with XdS in front? Any thought as to how they would match - being surrounds (where I assume that the content is less critical), are they "close enough", especially for movies?

Just curious (and asked in another thread) - has anyone used Classic 3s or 2s as surrounds with XdS in front? Any thought as to how they would match - being surrounds (where I assume that the content is less critical), are they "close enough", especially for movies?

I've used AZs as surrounds with Xd left and right (prefer no center to the 3C I had). I think they sound fine for movies and such. Haven't put on any of the surround music I have that would be very revealing of a mismatch, yet. Anyway, I've been happy so far.

FYI, a Factory Clearance Store page (http://store.nhthifi.com/Clearance) in case it hasn't been mentioned yet. The Power 5 is interesting, thought those were all gone (and maybe they are). The surplus sale page (http://home.comcast.net/~jhidley/) may also be worth a look for the curious.

The power 5 would be interesting but I've always wondered what the M80s paired with the S80 and other required electronics would sound like.

...audible hum from these amps, ...

This note is primarily for "plain fan". I don't have excessive noise from my NHT equipment. The key here is excessive (intrusive). Is there noise YES. NHT, Jack and I have pondered the problem. I have made every attempt to minimize internal and external influences.

The lamp dimmer (cheap, half wave type) does not effect my NHT equipment but, on the other hand it drives my $2500 power amp crazy. By this I mean the 3rd harmonic pollution caused by the lamp makes the amps' transformer hum loudly oscillating up and down (not through the speakers). There is an upgrade to fix this. Keep in mind this amp is on a 120 volt 20 amp dedicated circuit.

The NHT VT-3 has ground loop sensitivity. With all inputs disconnected hum is really low. The level increases slightly as the stereo portion is attached with a D/A converter (variable output). Balanced connections from teh D/A converter to the power amp are slightly quieter (hiss). When the video input portion is attached attached to the VT-3 procesor (receiver, DVD, DTV)...hummm. Is it audible at the listen position? NO, only up close at the speakers. Is it important, not really.

I have tried ground lifts, isolation transformers, dedicated lines, new equipment, old equipment, line conditioners. No Luck

I read about a ground resistive device somewhere that would take care of the looping but, what about the 3rd harmonic?

Sincerely,
Martin

Martin,
Thank you for the reply. The hum I hear is only when I go to manually turn the amps off with the switch. The hum is not so loud that I hear it during movies or music just when everything else is off and I'm standing right over them.
Grady

I've been reading this forum with great interest and am interested in your thoughts on my dilemma. I current have a complete NHT HT system. 3 Superones in the front, 2 Superzeros in the rear and an SW2Si powered sub. I'm loving Blueray concerts in TrueHD but it seems to be stressing the Superones. I'm looking to upgrade and want to do it in a way that will allow me to continue to use as many current speakers as possible. Here are my questions:

1) Will the Superones match with the 1.5's or 2.5i's for the center channel or do I need to get a new Audio center 1?

2) If I get the 1.5's and keep the SW2Si will I get better or as good bass if I just want with the 2.5i's and sold the SW2Si?

3) Should I just get 2 Classic 3's for LR and a Two C and use them with the SW2Si in lieu of a 1.5 or 2.5i?

3) Will the Superones be acceptable as rear surrounds with the 1.5, 2.5i or Classic 3?

Thanks for your input!

Dave

Dave,

Are the Super Ones and SW2Si connected to surround receiver and if so, how is the bass management configured? The Super Ones shouldn't be straining unless the room is really large or the bass management isn't configured properly.

I've been reading this forum with great interest and am interested in your thoughts on my dilemma. I current have a complete NHT HT system. 3 Superones in the front, 2 Superzeros in the rear and an SW2Si powered sub. I'm loving Blueray concerts in TrueHD but it seems to be stressing the Superones. I'm looking to upgrade and want to do it in a way that will allow me to continue to use as many current speakers as possible. Here are my questions:

1) Will the Superones match with the 1.5's or 2.5i's for the center channel or do I need to get a new Audio center 1?

2) If I get the 1.5's and keep the SW2Si will I get better or as good bass if I just want with the 2.5i's and sold the SW2Si?

3) Should I just get 2 Classic 3's for LR and a Two C and use them with the SW2Si in lieu of a 1.5 or 2.5i?

3) Will the Superones be acceptable as rear surrounds with the 1.5, 2.5i or Classic 3?

Thanks for your input!

Dave

1) The 1.5 and 2.5i have different tweeters than the super series. The AC-1 is a perfect match to the 1.5 and 2.5i. Don't' mix any of them with 2.9, 3.3 m5/6 L5's though...different speaker phasing.

2) tough call...but I don't like NHT subs.

3) superones are fine with the other speakers....the most important speakers are the front 3 and your sub.

hi every one

i m a nht fan from hk , but there 's not much people using nht now a day ,i have a pair of 2.9 and m5 as well , but i can't make the m5 sing well , i lsiten vocal and classical. any suggestion ? i don't have the b5 woofer , is that why my m5 sounds so thin on high notes? i m very satisfy with the 2.9 , it did a great job on both ht and music side .thanks :)

p.s. i have eathquake power amp and nakamichi pa1 as well .

Dave,

Are the Super Ones and SW2Si connected to surround receiver and if so, how is the bass management configured? The Super Ones shouldn't be straining unless the room is really large or the bass management isn't configured properly.

Jack,

I am running the speakers through an ONKYO TX-SR705 surround receiver (rated output of 160W/190W max at 6 ohms pr channel) with the front Superones set set at 60HZ crossover in the receiver. The receiver speaker setting was at 6 OHMs, but I just changed to 4. Should this matter?

The NHT-SA2 amp is connected via the subwoofer pre-out and the LPF of the LFE is set to 80 HZ THX in the receiver. The SW2S is connected to the SA-2.

I don't think the strain is from too much bass. It seems like it was more on the high frequencies. Is it possible that I'm just running them too loud given the power of my receiver?

If that's the case, which of my original upgrade options would you suggest. The primary use is home theater for movies and concerts, music and the occasional video game through the PS3.

Thanks for your help.

Dave

Dave,

In your current system I would change the HP filter on the Super Ones to 80Hz. Currently, both the subwoofer and the Super Ones are reproducing the 60-80Hz frequency range. Not good. Will usually result in boomy bass and will reduce the power handling of the Super Ones. I would try this just to see if you are clipping the receiver or over driving the Super Ones in the bass.

I assume that the SA-2 has its LP filter set to maximum? You will need to adjust the phase switch on the SA-2 and/or the time delay on the subwoofer output of the receiver to get the best bass integration.

When you switch the receiver from 6ohm to 4ohm mode, it usually just runs the amplifiers off of lower rail voltages. This has the effect of reducing the maximum amount of power the amplifier can output. With the Super Ones, the receiver should be in the 6ohm mode. They do not present a low load for the amplifier.

1) The Super Ones will not match very well with the M1.5 or M2.5i for the front speakers. You would really need to get an AC1.

2) You'll get better bass with the single SW2Si than the pair of M2.5i, but not much. You do not want to run both of them, unless you like lots of LFE boom.

3) I would do this. Get a Classic Three front system and use with a subwoofer. The woofer in the M1.5 is particularly wimpy. It doesn't have much thermal power handling and really won't play any louder than a Super One. Plus the M1.5 woofer is no longer available. If you blow one out, you will have to buy a used driver from someone. The same applies to the 6.5" in the M2.5i. It is the same driver. The 6.5" woofer in the Class Three has much more power handling than either driver. If you are looking for a better subwoofer than the SW2Si, PM me.

4) The Super Ones will be ok for surrounds, but you will need to aim them very directly at the listeners, since they are quite directional in the midrange.

hi every one ...eathquake power amp and nakamichi pa1 as well .

Hi claero,
Good to hear NHT has a following in the UK. Funny, my previous set of loudspeakers were IMF Professional Monitors from the UK. Small world!

Based on my experiences with NHT speakers they are capable of great things. They can be relentless in revealing deficiencies in everything ahead of them. If the music software (i.e. LP or digital) is a poor transfer well...

I am not familiar with your SYSTEM or your listening history. It has taken me several decades to get to the point that I am in my listening experience. Don't discount the contribution (positive/negative) the room has. First surface reflections are a killer. Speaker location in relation to your listening position is important (stands too).

An old friend once said it all starts at the beginning. Look at your front end. The phono (LP) side is much more forgiving. It can though sound bass shy or tinny as a result of electronics or mechanics. Digital sources range from crap to OK and out of this world. If you can afford a seperate DA convertor, do it. A good DA convertor can even be used with a media center (stereo).

One of the first things I did was build a passive preamp. I connected this between the DA convertor and the amplifier. Boy did that open up my system and make it sing. This was followed by replacing all wiring with Kimber Kable. Soundstage went from one chair (single seat position) to a whole sofa.

Sincerely,
Martin

So I've got a Drobo hard drive array in my entertainment center providing storage for my Mac mini music server.

Whenever the hard drives in the Drobo spin up, or whenever there's read/write activity, my Xds amplify the noise. The Drobo, XdA, and my receiver were all sharing a power strip. I tried moving the Drobo over to a different strip on a different outlet, but I'm still getting the same noise. Probably the two outlets are on the same circuit, but I'm in an apartment so it's not really something I have control over.

It's not horrible, just mildly annoying. I thought about putting a ground cheater on the Drobo's power supply. It's sadly not practical for me to move it to another room, since it needs to be connected to my Mac mini, which needs to be connected to my TV and receiver.

Never heard anything quite like this over loudspeakers before, but it's not necessarily unique to Xd since those are the only speakers I've used since I added the Drobo.

Anybody got any ideas for eliminating this?

It's noise being conducted in a loop from your music server's power supply to the XdA, down the XdA power cord, into the AC wiring, back up to the power supply of your music server. In this case, it sounds like a capacitively coupled ground loop. You can not fix it with filtering.

Start by disconnecting the XdW(s) from the system. Check for changes in noise.
Then start disconnecting all other electrical devices from the Music server. At each step check for any change in the noise.

Are you using the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables to connect your music server to the XdA? If so, have you extended or adapted the cables in any way and if so, how?

It's noise being conducted in a loop from your music server's power supply to the XdA, down the XdA power cord, into the AC wiring, back up to the power supply of your music server. In this case, it sounds like a capacitively coupled ground loop. You can not fix it with filtering.

Start by disconnecting the XdW(s) from the system. Check for changes in noise.
Then start disconnecting all other electrical devices from the Music server. At each step check for any change in the noise.

I'll give this a try tonight and let you know the results.

Are you using the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables to connect your music server to the XdA? If so, have you extended or adapted the cables in any way and if so, how?

The setup is a little more complicated than that. The Drobo (whose activity is the source of the noise) is connected via USB to the Mac mini. The Mac's optical output is connected to my receiver, which is connected via RCA to the XdA. I am using straight RCA cables, not the RCA->XLR cables that were included.

Let me know if you need more info on the setup. Thanks for your help!

Matt,

The optical connection between the Mac and the receiver will break any ground loops at that interface.

I would still remove the RCA to RCA cables and replace them with the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables. If you need to extend the RCA to XLR cables, don't extend the RCA end. Get an XLR to XLR cable to extend them.

Matt,

The optical connection between the Mac and the receiver will break any ground loops at that interface.

I would still remove the RCA to RCA cables and replace them with the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables. If you need to extend the RCA to XLR cables, don't extend the RCA end. Get an XLR to XLR cable to extend them.

I thought that might be the case. I'll borrow the XLR cables from the sbuwoofers and try using them with the RCA to XLR cables and see if that helps.

Any thoughts on the Three C center from users or past users? Can get one for a really good price and was looking for some input, goods, bads, or any other input. Thanks in advance. By the way it will be in use with Classic 4's for L/R.

hard to believe this thread is over 4 years old with over 450,000 views.

Any thoughts on the Three C center from users or past users? Can get one for a really good price and was looking for some input, goods, bads, or any other input. Thanks in advance. By the way it will be in use with Classic 4's for L/R.

Just returning to this thread after some time away...I have had my 3c for a yr or more and love it. I play movies at (depending on movie/soundtrack quality) approx -17/-15 db and the dialogue is clean and forward. Never heard it break up and I could push it harder w/o worry I honestly believe. It sound wonderful for multi ch music as well. My rig is calibrated correctly/balanced levels. My lving room is 14x21 with open foyer/hall at front right with another opening towards rear of room in to the kitchn area.

I have A1 amps powering all my speakers and yes, I've noticed a slight "buzz" from the amps. However, I only hear this when I am directly next to the amp (my ear is a foot or two away). It has never been an issue with quiet passages during a movie.

I contacted Nht after recvng my a1's from AudioAdvisor...new. They have buzz/hum. Tried different rooms and carried both a1's to my mom's house...same thing Not too loud but there. I use them w/ x2 to biamp my 4's.

Any thoughts on the Three C center from users or past users? Can get one for a really good price and was looking for some input, goods, bads, or any other input. Thanks in advance. By the way it will be in use with Classic 4's for L/R.

If you are using with C4s it is a no brainer. It is a really excellent center channel, especially for the price

Any thoughts on the Three C center from users or past users? Can get one for a really good price and was looking for some input, goods, bads, or any other input. Thanks in advance. By the way it will be in use with Classic 4's for L/R.

I use the 3C with the C4 no regrets. Considering it was built with the C4's in mind? Not sure you can get better matching?

Went ahead and bought the ThreeC. WOW is about all that comes to mind. Voices are so clear. Haven't turned it up to really push it yet but at higher volumes it only got better! Even some of the T.V. I watch that is mono to the center only was a huge improvement. Will have to see about getting a good movie in, turn it up and see what this thing can really do. Might even do a little bit of multi channel music listening, usually only do stereo. The short bit of movie watching I did the three up front do sound great together and are seemless when a sound is panned across them.

Concerning the Classic 3 center. The timbre on mine is not exact as the 4's when doing a pink noise or other test signal. Close but not the same. Perhaps it is bc the center is lower than the 4's. Anybody else experiece this. My stuff was purchased new and has been babied. I have the special dark series for what it's worth not hat the blk ones would be different. Any comments?

Went ahead and bought the ThreeC. WOW is about all that comes to mind. Voices are so clear. Haven't turned it up to really push it yet but at higher volumes it only got better! Even some of the T.V. I watch that is mono to the center only was a huge improvement. Will have to see about getting a good movie in, turn it up and see what this thing can really do. Might even do a little bit of multi channel music listening, usually only do stereo. The short bit of movie watching I did the three up front do sound great together and are seemless when a sound is panned across them.

Glad you like it. Are you bi-amping the fours? I ran mine 'regular' for a couple months and then purchased two a1's and an x2. Made a nice difference. Infact, if you don't have a huge room you could get away without using a sub as these go clean below 30 dipping into the upper 20's hz.