We've sold *hundreds* of A1s and had essentially zero hums. It's not impossible to have a mechanical hum with these types of transformers, but we honestly haven't run into it. To be honest, I can't remember *any* instance of audible hum from these amps, but having sold so many, I'd assume there must be a case somewhere or another of one that hummed at least a little.

"essentially" "not possible with this type of transformer" "one that hummed just a little" just admit it...they hum. I spoke directly with tech service a yr or more ago and was told that "some" hum was acceptable.

Glad you like it. Are you bi-amping the fours? I ran mine 'regular' for a couple months and then purchased two a1's and an x2. Made a nice difference. Infact, if you don't have a huge room you could get away without using a sub as these go clean below 30 dipping into the upper 20's hz.

No I am not bi-amping the fours, as a matter of fact they are still being ran off a Marantz SR4001. However anytime they get played loud the display starts pulsing and the amp starts clipping, so next step will be a nice 3 or 5 channel amp. I did not notice any timbre difference between the fours and threeC. Also I am not using a sub at this time and for music the fours really work great! More power and I am sure they would be really pushing out some nice lows. Most likely not into the 18 inch sub woofer range but they still work great. Not a huge movie watcher so the big sub doesn't really overly imprtant to me, though they can be nice for music as well.

If you are comparing two speakers to each other that are not placed at the same height as each other, they are going to sound different, even if they are the same speaker. Unless you put the ThreeC at the same height as the Four, it is going to sound quite a bit different.

I have the Xd system and once in a while there would be a loud hum audible from my sitting position. Did quite a bit of troubleshooting and it turned out to be just loose xlr cables coming from the NHT PVC pro that I'm using for volume control.

I currently have a Sonos and a Sony DVP7000 (for CD playback) connected to a Cambridge Audio DACmagic. I am thinking of replacing the DVP with a SACD player. Any suggestions?

I thought that I had seen somewhere that the ThreeC had the same mid and tweeter that the Fours use. I am remembering wrong? Thought even the 6.5 driver was the same. Of course as has happened before and will happen again I am sure, I could be mistaken.

Has anyone used NHT speakers with an Emotiva amp?

The 3 and 4's have same drivers. Essentially a 4 is a 3 on top with a 10 woofer added on lower side. The 3c shares same drivers plus an additional midbass, minus the 10in, although the xover have slightly different points. Mine sound fantastic for movies and reallllly good for music. I would give the edge for movies concerning the system as a whole but I have been happy for a yr or so. Bi-amping the 4's made a great difference. It could be easily done if you have 2 extra amp channels that you are not using and put an x2 in the loop. I use 5 of my 7 channels availabe from my power amp to power the top end of 4's, center, and surrounds. As soon as I add a couple more spkrs I'll have the pwr for them with those 2 extra unused channels. I mentioned before that I use dual a1's/x2 for the 10's. I don't use the lfe option on x2 to send lfe signal to the 4's...just the low out. I send lfe from Controller straight to stand alone sub. I only have about 200 hrs on the whole deal...probably less on center/surrounds. Sound better than ever with time under their belt.

Has anyone used NHT speakers with an Emotiva amp?

I have not ...but, I'm trying to talk my buddy in to bringing over his Emo just for kicks. If/when I do so I'll surely post. Biamping my fours w/ a1's/x2 combo really free up my main amp to strut it's stuff since it only has to handle midbass drivers up. From all reports it should sound fantastic. My bud and myself noticed an immediate, audible difference when he added the Emo to his rig (Klipsch Heritage spkrs...khorns and Jubilees). The nht's should really like the power as they are on the low side of sensitivity and nominally 6ohm for many models.

If you are comparing two speakers to each other that are not placed at the same height as each other, they are going to sound different, even if they are the same speaker. Unless you put the ThreeC at the same height as the Four, it is going to sound quite a bit different.

I had this thought/assumption some time ago. Thanks. The center sits about 18in or so below the 4's top...so there is some distance difference there.

I currently have a Sonos and a Sony DVP7000 (for CD playback) connected to a Cambridge Audio DACmagic. I am thinking of replacing the DVP with a SACD player. Any suggestions?

How do you like the DACmagic? Been thinking about one of those to use with my Xds. I'm debating between that or saving up longer for a Benchmark DAC1.

Also, how do you like using the PVC with the Xd?

I like the DACmagic a lot as it greatly improves from what the Sonos offers and is reasonably priced. It has inputs for 3 digital sources and is small. Only drawback is the lack of a remote for switching sources but this is not a big deal to me. I also like using the PVC with the Xd. Combined with the DACmagic's multiple inputs, I avoid the need for a preamp, which saves money and eliminates one more thing to put in the signal path, but I can still switch sources and control the volume fairly easily. I am quite happy with this set up. In fact, I just got the SACD of the E.S.E. sessions from Blue Coast Records and I am blown away by how great the music is.

mnc, I would definitely be interested in knowing how you like the Emotiva amp paired with the NHTs. I think I've mentioned before that I have individual A1s powering everything and well 10 monoblock amps sounded like a good idea at the time, but.... So I would really like to know how the XPA-5 sounds with the NHTs. I'd need two of them but still that's 8 less power sources to consider.

Hey all - I have been interested in the classic line since it came out, but now am finally in a position to purchase. I am going for a semi-HT setup; I would love to go with the 4s, but most likely will go with the 3s and a 3c (and if possible 2s for the rear at this point).

Does anyone know if there is a place to get any kind of "package" deal? Or can these only be bought as individual/pairs? Thanks!

Hey all - I have been interested in the classic line since it came out, but now am finally in a position to purchase. I am going for a semi-HT setup; I would love to go with the 4s, but most likely will go with the 3s and a 3c (and if possible 2s for the rear at this point).

Does anyone know if there is a place to get any kind of "package" deal? Or can these only be bought as individual/pairs? Thanks!

I would call NHT directly and see if they can do anything for you.

Xd owners: What happens if I have two pre-amps, one single-ended/RCA and one balanced, plugged into the XdA?

Currently I use my receiver to drive the XdA via the RCA inputs. But I'd like to perhaps use a PVC Pro (likely driven by a DAC) to drive the XdA's balanced inputs, giving me a separate 2-channel setup. I'm wondering if this is possible.

mnc, I would definitely be interested in knowing how you like the Emotiva amp paired with the NHTs. I think I've mentioned before that I have individual A1s powering everything and well 10 monoblock amps sounded like a good idea at the time, but.... So I would really like to know how the XPA-5 sounds with the NHTs. I'd need two of them but still that's 8 less power sources to consider.

You have 10 a1's...? So you just come out of prepro to an a1 and then on to a spkr or pair of binding posts? geez. How do you utilize 10 channels of pwr. 4 for mains, 2 for cntr, 2 for side, 2 for rear...oh...that is ten. Wow. Yea, I would say downsize with a xpa5 for the upper 4's, center, and surr. Use two a1's on the 10in woofers. Basically same setup as mine. Later add an xpa2 for the mains and switch the other channels of the xpa5 to pwr rear surr for a 7ch setup. BTW...my budd has the xpa3 so it should be comparable to the 5. I'll see if we could do a session while over the holidays coming up soon.

[QUOTE=Tim916;17439228]I would call NHT directly and see if they can do anything for you.[/QUOT

As suggested or call AV logic or Audio advisor to see what they have left. As I understand Nht are going internet/factory direct. Got my 4's for a grand shipped...3c for 2 forty shipped. I don't think you will get them that cheap...but you can find very competitive places to do so. Pm and I'll give pointers as we are not supposed to discuss prices...I think:confused:

You have 10 a1's...? So you just come out of prepro to an a1 and then on to a spkr or pair of binding posts? geez. How do you utilize 10 channels of pwr. 4 for mains, 2 for cntr, 2 for side, 2 for rear...oh...that is ten. Wow. Yea, I would say downsize with a xpa5 for the upper 4's, center, and surr. Use two a1's on the 10in woofers. Basically same setup as mine. Later add an xpa2 for the mains and switch the other channels of the xpa5 to pwr rear surr for a 7ch setup. BTW...my budd has the xpa3 so it should be comparable to the 5. I'll see if we could do a session while over the holidays coming up soon.

Well not exactly; I'm running a 5.1 system. I have two pairs of T5s (1 pair for the front and 1 pair for the rears), a M5 for the center and a subwoofer. So each M5 gets an A1 and each B1 gets an A1. I was thinking that I could use an XPA-5 for the for front 3 M5s and front B5s. Then I could use another XPA-5 for the rear 2 M5s and rear B5s. But I do have one caveat, the back pair of T5s are not hooked up at the moment because I don't have space for them in the room (but will soon) so at this point I'm just considering simplifying my setup with fewer amps.

Please let me know what you think of your friends XPA-3 and the NHTs.

Matt,

The optical connection between the Mac and the receiver will break any ground loops at that interface.

I would still remove the RCA to RCA cables and replace them with the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables. If you need to extend the RCA to XLR cables, don't extend the RCA end. Get an XLR to XLR cable to extend them.

Jack,

I tried the RCA to XLR cables. I believe they decreased the noise by about half (subjectively), although it was still audible. But I think the improvement was enough that I'll order a pair of XLR cables to extend the RCA to XLR so I can use them permanently.

I did notice that when I powered the receiver off, the noise went away (the XdA was left fully powered up). The Xd, receiver, Mac mini/Drobo hard drive array, etc. are all part of a home theater system, so it's conceivable there's another path for the ground loop to form.

If you have any ideas on how to eliminate the noise entirely, I'd be glad to hear them. But the RCA to XLR suggestion helps and is much appreciated.

Oh, one more question: is there anything special about the RCA to XLR cables included with the system, or would any such cable (e.g. this (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10244&cs_id=1024404&p_id=4777&seq=1&format=2)) do the trick?

EDIT: Never mind on this one. Found Jack's answer elsewhere in the thread where he states most of the converters are not built correctly, so use the NHT ones with an XLR extension.

[QUOTE=mattwardfh;17440796]Xd owners: What happens if I have two pre-amps, one single-ended/RCA and one balanced, plugged into the XdA?

I would like to know if this is possible also, but instead of 2 preamps, can I have a DAC's RCA out plugged into the XdA's RCA inputs and balanced outs from a SACD player going into XdA's balanced inputs.

Anyone tried this?

I would like to know if this is possible also, but instead of 2 preamps, can I have a DAC's RCA out plugged into the XdA's RCA inputs and balanced outs from a SACD player going into XdA's balanced inputs.

Anyone tried this?

You can use a DAC or CD player in place of a pre-amp if it has volume controls; that shouldn't be any different from what I'm trying to do.

Can I still get replacement drivers from NHT?

Well not exactly; I'm running a 5.1 system. I have two pairs of T5s (1 pair for the front and 1 pair for the rears), a M5 for the center and a subwoofer. So each M5 gets an A1 and each B1 gets an A1. I was thinking that I could use an XPA-5 for the for front 3 M5s and front B5s. Then I could use another XPA-5 for the rear 2 M5s and rear B5s. But I do have one caveat, the back pair of T5s are not hooked up at the moment because I don't have space for them in the room (but will soon) so at this point I'm just considering simplifying my setup with fewer amps.

Please let me know what you think of your friends XPA-3 and the NHTs.

Ok. Used the xpa3 with my 4's. Can't tell you if I had trick or treaters or not. Could not hear the doorbell :) They liked the extra muscle...spkrs that is. All seriousness aside, the tonal quality did not change but rather seemed faster. Faster attack and decay which made for a tighter sound. I hooked up the jumpers and ran it full range stereo mode with signal coming from oppo cdp through my nht Controller. I let speaker wizard feature do the auto setup some time ago so all settings remained. I bumped up the bass via tone to plus 2 and left treble at my usual plus 2 from flat. This works with my living room as it has cushioned furniture, heavy drapes, and carpet. I then jacked in the x2/a1/a1 combo again. It was time to crank it up. These speakers really surprise me and others. They get louder without changing tonally. I can get it to -10db or -6db and it's loud but does not hurt your ears. It's just jamming. Listening selections included some Steely Dan, Porcupine Tree, Diane Krall, General Public, Seal, Jeff Beck, Pat Metheny(The Way Up), A Perfect Circle, and Cab (fusion jazz), Madonna. I use select songs for attributes that I am very familiar with. Mind you, not everything sounds good but passable. Very dependent on recording/artist. These volumes are for 'show-off' purposes only and are not typical. My pwr amp is a Boston 7200...Sherwood/Outlaw clone that Boston tweaked and rebadged. It weighs 80lbs and is rock solid in sound quality. I have no desire at present time to switch out as I practically stole it. I can tell you the xtra horsepwr sped-up an tightened things a bit. For the price/quality/cust serv of the Emo stuff...it's a no brainer really. I would imagine a xpa5 doing the c4's well and a xpa2...well, of course as it's one of their best. Best of luck in your decision/s. Remember, you do get 30 days trial but have to foot the return shpng cost.

mnnc, many thanks for testing the XPA-3 with your 4s! I might have to get an XPA-5 and see how I like it; I forgot about the 30 days return policy.
When you mention that not everything sounds good which is dependent on the recording, do the recordings sound the same with your normal amp, just the XPA-3 allows you to run the 4s louder?

PlainFan...yes. If recording is so-so on my amp it was same on Emo. I can play loud w/ my amp as well. With the extra pwr the emo seemed to have more control over the spkrs. My focus was on the 4's ability to go loud without sounding different. Some spkrs sound different at diff volume levels. The nht's sound the same at low volumes to me as they do at higher volumes...just louder...not different in tone/sound. I typically listen somewhere in the -30's/-20's db so it's not cranking but it's not lounge level either. Mind you...I'm using an ok cdp...just ok/good. I guess with a nicer cdp like a rega, cambridge, or denon it may sound better. I got my cdp prev owned for a song and it's versatile handling my multi-ch music quite well. I could go on and on about adding better source components but you get the idea. The nht/emo combo would be a smashing start or upgrade for an a/v rig. When you consider quality/price ratio it would be quite difficult to top. I'm content as my dream spkrs are the tol revels...one day. Just a quick story. Last summer/08...I visited some hi-end 'salons'. Listened to some Wilson/Classe combo Vandersteen, B&W, etc. This stuff is expensive. I was not impressed. Either the rooms were not good or the setup was off. I don't know, but my buddy and I looked at each other and agreed my rig sounded better. He has Khorns and Mac. You know the kind of sound levels that stuff can produce. It's all subjective. Let me/us know what transpires and post impressions.

That is exactly what I gathered while reading your post. I agree the T5s sound the same regardless of volume for me as well. I will definitely post my findings if I decide to go with the emotiva amps. I'm actually on the preorder list for their UMC-1 so when or if I go ahead with that purchase I'll post my findings with the UMC-1/NHT combo as well. I've just become the owner of the M60 Pro system which is heading my direction. I got it at a very good deal so I'm pretty interested in finally hearing for myself the system that received so many great reviews.
If you get a chance listen to Sonus Faber as well. A friend in the home theater business sells Sonus Faber, Macintosh, Arcam and REL gear. He demoed for me the low end Sonus Faber bookshelf speakers with Macintosh electronics and the low end REL sub all fed by Blu Ray. WOW, you get the chance to hear the Sonus Faber speakers do so. Of course I was tempted but I'm so pleased with my NHTs that trading up was never a serious consideration. :D

That is exactly what I gathered while reading your post. I agree the T5s sound the same regardless of volume for me as well. I will definitely post my findings if I decide to go with the emotiva amps. I'm actually on the preorder list for their UMC-1 so when or if I go ahead with that purchase I'll post my findings with the UMC-1/NHT combo as well. I've just become the owner of the M60 Pro system which is heading my direction. I got it at a very good deal so I'm pretty interested in finally hearing for myself the system that received so many great reviews.
If you get a chance listen to Sonus Faber as well. A friend in the home theater business sells Sonus Faber, Macintosh, Arcam and REL gear. He demoed for me the low end Sonus Faber bookshelf speakers with Macintosh electronics and the low end REL sub all fed by Blu Ray. WOW, you get the chance to hear the Sonus Faber speakers do so. Of course I was tempted but I'm so pleased with my NHTs that trading up was never a serious consideration. :D

I own an M-60 system as well (I use the XdW subs, did you get the S-80s?) and it is unbelievable for the price I paid. However, be warned that it is a different animal than a Sonus Faber. Sonus speakers tend to be on the warm/lush side of neutral whereas the M-60 was designed to be as neutral as possible.

I got the S-80 with the package. I'm not expecting Sonus Faber sound; just mentioned it to mnnc to give them a listen if the opportunity presents itself.

What do you think of the M-60 system? Are you running dual Xdw subs? What are you using for a switching source? I've started looking but have no clue what might be good to mate with the Xda.

I got the S-80 with the package. I'm not expecting Sonus Faber sound; just mentioned it to mnnc to give them a listen if the opportunity presents itself.

What do you think of the M-60 system? Are you running dual Xdw subs? What are you using for a switching source? I've started looking but have no clue what might be good to mate with the Xda.

I am using dual XdW subs with mine. The system is spectacular. Read the reviews of the standard Xd system, but remove the caveat expressed by most of those reviewers that the Xd is a little lean in the 100-200hz region (it is), and that's what you are going to have with the M-60 system.

It is remarkably clean sounding at high volumes in comparison to most hifi speakers of similar size. In fact, you have to be careful because you won't realize how loud you are playing it until a neighbor/wife/landlord lets you know about it.

Hi guys, ive had my classic 3 system for about 5 months now and im absolutely in love with them. I have the classic 3 center and classic 2's for surrounds.

Right now im poweing them off a yamaha rx-v661. They sound escellent to say the least. But i have a bit of cash to spend so im wondering if i should buy an amp for them.

Im not looking for output as i have a very small room 10x15x8 and i sit about 7 ft away from the 3's. I want punchier bass, bigger soundstage, more seperation and detail.

How much wattage should i be going for?

Right now im looking at the emotiva xpa-3, and 5. ANd the UPA-7 as well

is 200 watts wasted heat for my room? (in terms of amplifier size)
For those not familiar the xpa 3 and 5 are 200 wpc and the upa7 is 125.

Tim, thanks for the input. The system will be here about Thursday so I'll post after some evaluation time (might be dangerous when I compare it back to my T5 based theater).

What do you use as a source for the Xda?

RedMed427, the NHTs like power. I have 250 watt amps powering mine and the difference is very noticable when I left the receiver for separate amps.

RedMed427, the NHTs like power. I have 250 watt amps powering mine and the difference is very noticable when I left the receiver for separate amps.



Well i would assume that they would sound alot better with a dedicated amp. My question is if i would notice, or even need the extra 75 watts, or possibly better construction... not too mention higher price.

Im really considering the UPA-7 atm.

Redmed...xpa5 for now...add xpa2 later for 7ch. It would lift things to a new height. Do you use a sub? A good 10 incher from the likes of svs or hsu would be great in your room

Tim, thanks for the input. The system will be here about Thursday so I'll post after some evaluation time (might be dangerous when I compare it back to my T5 based theater).

What do you use as a source for the Xda?

RedMed427, the NHTs like power. I have 250 watt amps powering mine and the difference is very noticable when I left the receiver for separate amps.

The XdA likes a balanced input, but if your preamp or processor does not have balanced out the next best thing is to use the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables.

I am using a Denon 3808 and it seems to work pretty well, but I have not tried anything else with them, nor do I plan to anytime soon.

Well, I made an impulse buy and got 2 Xds.
I even overpaid for them (should have bought them from Jack (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1125860)). :o

I don't know what I was thinking (okay, I was thinking "fun project"... :D ), but now I need to figure out a good use for them.

The first thing will be to read over this thread to figure out what to do about the crossovers without forking the dough for an XdA.
I got confused with the specs mentioning of a crossover at 1kHz, but now understand that there's no crossover whatsoever in the speaker. :(
The reason for not going the XdA route is because I want to possibly reuse the XO and amp for another project (if ever).

As far as crossover, so far, I have the Behringer ULTRADRIVE PRO DCX2496 in mind.
Any opinion on it?
How close does it come to the XO of the XdA?

Anybody has a picture of the back of the Xd?

My current plan is to the NHT RCA to XLR cables which is why I'm asking what people are using with the XdA boxes.

Does anyone know how long the A1/X1 delay before going into stand-by is supposed to be? I need to figure out if there is a phantom signal that is causing them to wait 20-30 minutes. They are driven by a pre-amp that is also in stand-by, not off.

My X1 stays on for about 15-20 minutes before shutting down. I manually turn the A1 off by the switch in the back but I think it too has about a 15-20 minute delay.

So I've got the M60 system set up but unfortunately the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables weren't included. I have a very distinctive hum in the playback so I'm pretty sure I need them. I've emailed the seller but need to start looking for alternatives. I'm trying to find the posts the discussed this topic, but can I use other RCA to XLR alternatives? I checked NHT's website but do not want to fork out the $125 per cable they are asking!

It didn't take me long to answer my own question. Found the reference on the previous page to Jack saying that the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables is the way to go. So any suggestions if the previous owners don't have the cables...?

So I've got the M60 system set up but unfortunately the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables weren't included. I have a very distinctive hum in the playback so I'm pretty sure I need them. I've emailed the seller but need to start looking for alternatives. I'm trying to find the posts the discussed this topic, but can I use other RCA to XLR alternatives? I checked NHT's website but do not want to fork out the $125 per cable they are asking!

It didn't take me long to answer my own question. Found the reference on the previous page to Jack saying that the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables is the way to go. So any suggestions if the previous owners don't have the cables...?

Hum... I hope other XLR to RCA cables can be used.
Either that or I have just wasted a small amount of money buying cables from Lynx (http://www.lynxstudio.com/product_detail.asp?i=46).

Update:

Got up this morning and decided to try plugging my Creative Labs Zen MP3 player into the XdA just to see if that eliminated the noise. Good news, all the interference/noise from last night is gone! Unfortunately that confirms that a.) I need the RCA to XLR cables and b.) my receiver passes a lot of noise/interference to the XdA. Still need help!

I've been listening to different tracks through the MP3 player. So far, my observation is WOW, I didn't think MP3s were supposed to sound this good! I encode at VBR but still it is shocking. Again, I need the other cables so I can listen to music from the original CD, SACD, BD, etc... Completely understand the people that post about turning the system up loud. It just plays so clear and easy that you find yoursefl enjoying the music bumping the volume up every few minutes...

Again, still need help getting the NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables...

The hum is from grounding issues with the XLR to RCA cables.
A lot of manufacturers did not follow the proper specs in making these cables.

XLR is a balanced type cable and RCA is unbalanced.
So, XLR to RCA is balanced to unbalanced, which requires proper pin conversion.
Once I get my cables from Lynx, I will let you know.

Otherwise, just call NHT for the original cables.

I purchased a U2 sub system a while back and I am having some issues with the X1. The unit has to be totally cranked to get any volume to the amp. Then some time if you pause for a while and restart it will blast and over drive the amp. I am at a crossroads with the unit and realize the subs must have the proper eq to be of use. Any possibilities of a loose wire on the inside? I have some skills with a soldiering iron if I could fix it myself.

Thanks in advance.

Could it be the device sending the signal to the X1? Are you using a receiver or pre/pro? How do you have the X1 setup?

I have tryed it with a multitude of processors and configurations. Emo, Onkyo, Halcro. Currently I am trying the simplest configurations let the processor handle the xover and just use the x1 for eq and some volume control. I have tryed the sub amp on the left and the rt sub out but currently it is on the rt. I have tryed the sub in on the sub in and rt in and currently it is on the sub in connection of the x1.

Are you using the U2s as subwoofers (LFE signal) or as subwoofers for low end extension of "small" speakers?

Currently I have all the speakers crossed over in the AVR at 80hz and added to the lfe channel and that is what I am feeding the x1. Called method #3 in the manual?

Does anyone know how long the A1/X1 delay before going into stand-by is supposed to be? I need to figure out if there is a phantom signal that is causing them to wait 20-30 minutes. They are driven by a pre-amp that is also in stand-by, not off.

My dual A1's/X2 combo stay on for 15-20 mins after no signal. Manual states this time interval as well.

This seems to be the biggest NHT thread around, so hopefully my question is appropriate.

I have a pair of NHT ST-4s. I bought them about 7 years ago, and am quite fond of them when they have enough juice to run. I'm looking to step up to a surround sound system and I suppose I have three options:
1) Buy 5.1 additional speakers and leave the NHT's for stereo (not likely due to space)
2) Get rid of the NHT's and buy 5.1 speakers.
3) Buy 3.1 additional speakers to compliment the NHT's.

I like option 3 the best from a financial point of view, however, I'm not sure what I could match with the ST-4's for center/surround. Any thoughts?

The hum is from grounding issues with the XLR to RCA cables.
A lot of manufacturers did not follow the proper specs in making these cables.

XLR is a balanced type cable and RCA is unbalanced.
So, XLR to RCA is balanced to unbalanced, which requires proper pin conversion.
Once I get my cables from Lynx, I will let you know.

Otherwise, just call NHT for the original cables.

To follow up, the Lynx cables were a bust as they don't conform to specs.

This is how the proper cables should be wired (make sure any XLR to RCA cable you buy is wired this way):
http://www.speakerrepair.com/ebaypics/xe-wiring.jpg

There is no such thing as a balanced RCA connection with a single connector, yet many cable makers wire the -ve to the RCA ground leaving the connection ungrounded (hence the hums). :eek:

A balanced RCA connection should be an XLR to two RCAs.
http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/images/XLR-2xRCA.jpg

Here is a good read: http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/xlr-rca-1.html

So, I have now ordered these: http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=genem&Product_Code=37-372&Category_Code=

Spectrum,

The XLR inputs on the XdA require a male connector - the ones you provided a link to have female XLR connectors.

Spectrum,

The XLR inputs on the XdA require a male connector - the ones you provided a link to have female XLR connectors.

I know.
Nonetheless, I am using the behringer DCX 2496, which needs both male XLR for input and female XLR for output.
For the short term, I am using the DCX with a set of NHT Power 2 amps.
The NHT amps are just too neutral (borderline sterile), and you need a nice pre-pro to give them some flavor.

Back on the cable subject, note that the Lynx XLR to S/PDIF cables seem to be properly built (mainly because a digital signal does not need/cannot be balanced).
So, buy those if you need XLR to S/PDIF cables, but don't buy their XLR to RCA cables.

The previous owner is checking to see if they can get the cables for me. I'm going to reveal my ignorance here but how do I hook two RCA cables up to a single output?

There is a lot of misinformation in the last 10 or so posts about connecting balanced and unbalanced interfaces to each other. There is no single cable that works for all XLR to RCA applications or RCA to XLR applications. Why this is so requires quite long explanations, that I don't have the time or desire to type out. You can find everything you need on the Jensen Transformers website tech section. Click on the paper link in the first post of the link below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16128643&highlight=balanced#post16128643

The previous owner was able to get their hands on a pair of the NHT RCA to XLR cables and will be shipping them to me. :D

The NHT amps are just too neutral (borderline sterile), and you need a nice pre-pro to give them some flavor.Now, if you stop a minute you have to realize that's completely a matter of personal preference. One person's "too neutral" is just accurate and clean for most people, and your "flavor" might be euphonic or it might be just too much for some.

I've always enjoyed the neutral or revealing nature of the NHT speakers and electronics.

There is a lot of misinformation in the last 10 or so posts about connecting balanced and unbalanced interfaces to each other. There is no single cable that works for all XLR to RCA applications or RCA to XLR applications. Why this is so requires quite long explanations, that I don't have the time or desire to type out. You can find everything you need on the Jensen Transformers website tech section. Click on the paper link in the first post of the link below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16128643&highlight=balanced#post16128643

I wouldn't call it misinformation but rather a potential for partial information.
Devices like the DCX2496 will detect, based on the cable, whether to output a balanced or unbalanced signal.
In the case of unbalanced signal, the wrong cable will create grounding issues; hence, people complaining of "hums".

All information posted was based on having the proper cables for such device.
Clearly, no cable will transform a balanced signal into an unbalanced one.

In the context of what we are trying to do in this thread, a cable that grounds properly to an RCA ground is the only type we care for.

FYI, the GLS cables I ordered worked like a charm.
I even opened them up, and they are properly wired.

Now, if you stop a minute you have to realize that's completely a matter of personal preference. One person's "too neutral" is just accurate and clean for most people, and your "flavor" might be euphonic or it might be just too much for some.
Everything in this forum is a matter of personal preference.

I do not want to get into a long drawn out discussion on signal transmission and electrical engineering, so I'll just show one example in this thread of misinformation.

Post #8551 above has a schematic for connecting the balanced output of one device to the unbalanced input of another device. Above the schematic is says "This is how the proper cables should be wired (make sure any XLR to RCA cable you buy is wired this way):"

When you wire the cable this way, if the output of the balanced device has one opamp driving each phase, then you are shorting the output of the - opamp to ground. Some balanced equipment has very high output impedance to keep this from blowing up the opamp. Some equipment has cross coupled outputs to keep this shorted condition from causing damage. Some equipment will have a much reduced output level drive when one phase is driving a short. Without knowing exactly how the output stages of your balanced equipment is designed, you can't know whether shorting the negative phase is safe to do or not.

The important thing to see here is that there is no reason to ever wire a cable this way. There is no advantage to it, and a lot of potential downside. It doesn't affect the ground loop behavior of the system. It doesn't decrease the noise level. With some type of output driver ICs, it can increase the maximum output level, but this is really a disadvantage, because it adds just as much noise as it adds in maximum output capability.

Interesting.
I am not shocked at the fact that the wiring can be application specific.
However and for general purposes, one would think (given the fact that RCA is only two wires) that there would be a clear standard going from XLR to RCA.

My assumption here is again that the output device is capable of auto-sensing and thereby capable of switching its output from balanced to unbalanced.
If that's not the case, then I can foresee the need for a transformer type device to do the proper conversion from balanced to unbalanced.

Can you tell us how the NHT supplied XLR to RCA cables are wired and what the behavior of the XdA is based on the type of cable being used (XLR-XLR vs XLR-RCA)?

Thanks.

Jack...or anyone,

I've have a VT3 HT system with 4 VR-3's for the surrounds. I'm getting a new processor and am going to try out some of the new "DSX" speaker configurations. Assuming VR-3's are pretty hard to find, if I take the Back Surround VR-3s and put them up front, what would be a good back surround replacement that mesh well with my side surround and front speakers?

Regards,
John

what is too neutral?

The safest way to wire an XLR output to an RCA input is this:

Pin 1 of the XLR goes to the shield of the RCA.
Pin 2 of the XLR goes to the center conductor of the RCA.
Pin 3 of the XLR goes no where.

This configuration connects the signal grounds of the balanced and the unbalanced devices together. If the power grounds of these devices are also connected together, normally through a grounded AC power cord, then you will almost definitely have a ground loop and the associated buzz from the 60Hz harmonics. Even if one of the devices does not have a grounded AC power cord, you can still have a ground loop due to the interwinding capacitance of the power supply transformer in one or both of the devices. Since this capacitance forms a low pass filter, the ground loop will only allow the very high harmonics of the 60Hz power supply to flow in the ground loop. This will make the resulting noise sound very buzzy.

If the cable configuration above has ground loop noise, I would try this:

Pin 1 of the XLR goes no where.
Pin 2 of the XLR goes to the center conductor of the RCA.
Pin 3 of the XLR goes to the shield of the RCA.

In this configuration there is no signal ground connection between the devices. There must be a power ground connection between the AC power cords of the two devices. If there isn't, you will have horrible buzz and distortion. You will be massively clipping the input of the RCA device since there is no ground reference for the voltage that is being applied to its inputs. Normally if one of these devices is battery powered, you would never want to use this cable configuration because there would be no ground connection between the devices.

To connect the output of an unbalanced RCA device to the input of a balanced XLR device:

The RCA center conductor goes down one of the conductors to pin 2 of the XLR.
The RCA shield goes down the other conductor to pin 3 of the XLR.
The RCA shield also goes down the cable shield to pin 1 of the XLR.

Note that this configuration require a two conductor cable plus a shield. This is where many manufacturers blow it. They use a single conductor cable with a shield and just jumper pin1 and pin3 of the XLR together. This always results in some degree of more noise. If the cables were ideal and had zero resistance, there would be no increase in noise.

When there are ground currents circulating in a loop and the ground current flows between the signal grounds of the two devices, the noise from this ground current ends up as part of the signal at the receive end when you use a single conductor cable. When you use a two conductor cable, the ground loop current flows only in the shield and therefore doesn't modulate the current flowing into the - XLR input, so it doesn't end up as part of the signal in the receive device.

This ideal RCA to XLR cable is shown in figure 2.1 of the following document:

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf

This document also discusses several of the other issues I brought up here. It is the very short simple version in the discussion on balanced and unbalanced interfaces. The same section of the Jensen website has much longer articles that go much more in depth. I strongly recommended reading them if you have any interest in this subject. Start with the long ones as they explain the underlying physics.

The NHT supplied RCA to XLR cables are wired following figure 2.1 in the Jensen paper linked above. The NHT XdA is somewhat more susceptible to high frequency ground loop noise because of the switching power supply. The switching power supply has more primary to secondary coupling capacitance than a good traditional transformer. With a switching power supply, switching amplifiers, two DSP processors and a couple of microcontrollers, there are plenty of high frequency sources around to induce noise in any ground loop. This is why we included the RCA to XLR cables so that the user would be using the balanced inputs which are much less affected by ground loop problems. They aren't always needed. Whether they are needed or not depends on your preamp, the other equipment connected to the preamp and the EMI environment the system is in.

John,

I know of several people with VR-3s for sale. Contact me by PM for info.

Jack, is it absolutely critical to mount or at least place the L5 against a wall? The sound quality will be compromised if I place it say 12 inches away from the wall?

@Jack

Thanks for the enlightenment... much appreciated. :)

If you place the L5 12" away from the wall, there will be a large dip in the frequency response around 300Hz.

At this distance away from the wall, you would probably be better off using an M5.

I see. I guess I'll have no choice but to mount it then. Thanks!!

Nevermind, I found the information:

A woofer –
B woofer +
C tweeter –
D tweeter +

NHT L5 vs. Dali Ikon On-wall. Has anyone done a side by side comparison of these speakers. I have the L5s now for my front L/R and am considering moving them to the rear and using the Dali Ikon On-walls in the front. I haven't had a chance to listen to the On-walls though side by side with the NHTs. If anyone can help me with this I would greatly appreciate it.

sfarfan, check you PMs.

Hey everyone,

Wow, it's really great to have stumbled upon this forum. I just purchased my first NHT speakers yesterday, and then found this forum that same evening. I have to admit that I was a little hesitant to buy the NHTs, knowing that the company has had a rocky time recently on the business/financial side of things. So it's reassuring to see that there are so many enthusiastic NHT owners posting here. It's remarkable that this thread goes back to 2005.

I'm in the process of upgrading from a very old stereo system to my first surround sound system. And I'm doing this on a tight budget. Being in Canada, I started out by looking at the usual homegrown 'high-value-for-your-dollar' speakers -- PSB and Paradigm -- before turning to the NHTs.

I really didn't like the PSB B1 Monitors at all. The first time I heard them, they just sounded dull and lifeless. A few months later, I gave them a second chance and it was even worse: I actually found them harsh and unpleasant. (I don't mean to offend anyone who may like them; this is just what they sounded like to my ears.)

Next I tried the Paradigm Atoms and Minis. These sounded a lot better to me. There was none of that harshness that I heard with the PSBs and the music seemed much more full of life. I was just about ready to buy the Minis, when I remembered back to the NHT Classic 3s that I first heard a year ago. Although they looked and sounded great, they were unfortunately out of my price range. But hey, it doesn't hurt to take another look, right?

I drove across the city to a store that carries NHTs to give them a second audition and check the price. They looked and sounded every bit as amazing as I remembered. But the price was still more than my limited budget would allow.

I had previously read about the Absolute Zeros but had never heard them in action. In the past, I had been reluctant to go with such a small speaker. But now I was curious and the store owner was kind enough to open a brand new box and set them up for an audition. They seemed so tiny compared to the Classic 3s, so I was doubtful they could produce a truly room-filling, enveloping sound. But I was pleasantly surprised -- they sounded great! Now, I'm no sound expert or audiophile.... when people start talking about subtle differences in soundstage, bass rolloff, veiled treble, etc, they lose me. And frankly, I don't want to obsess about minute, barely perceptible details. I just think speakers should be fun to listen to, and I know what sounds good to me. And as I said, the Absolute Zeros sounded great. No matter what style of music we tested on them, it all just came to life. Even the bass sounded really robust to me, despite the diminutive size of the speakers. Maybe this will seem strange to the audiophiles out there, but I could be perfectly content with these speakers, without the need to add a subwoofer.

Another point I took into consideration was the appearance of the speakers. Honestly, I think 95% of speakers are ugly, and even those with expensive wood veneers still look like boring boxes. The enjoyment of music is all about appealing to the senses and emotion, so I think visual aesthetics play a part in this. It's a pity that even some wonderful sounding speakers look so boring and generic in their design. Instead, they should seek to be artful in all regards. Fortunately, the NHTs stand apart from the crowd. I love the sleek curved lines and piano black finish of the Classic series. To be blunt, these speakers are just plain sexy.

Well, as I say, I would have loved to get the Classic 3s but because of budget constraints, I decided to compromise and get two pairs of Absolute Zeros to use as both my front and rear speakers. I can add a centre to this set-up in time.

Looking back, I still wish I could have auditioned the Paradigm Minis and NHT Absolute Zeros side by side. Listening to them an hour apart with different music is hardly a proper A/B test. The price was exactly the same, but the Paradigms were definitely larger. Of course that does not necessarily mean they were better. If anybody has experience with both, I would be curious to hear your opinions. As for me, despite my uncertainties about the small size of the Zeros and the business struggles at NHT, I was ultimately won over by the beauty and musicality of these speakers. Even having to settle for the baby of the Classic series, I honestly feel like the sound was almost as good as their bigger siblings. And I certainly think that a system with 4 Absolute Zeros will be more than capable of enveloping a relatively small space (condo-sized living room/dining room) in rich, full sound.

Of course, before I can hear them do that, I still have to get an AVR to drive them! So I would like to ask those more experienced NHT owners out there if you can recommend a good, budget receiver (~ $300-450) that would match nicely with two sets of Zeros and eventually grow into a full 5 or 5.1 system (I hear that NHTs work best with a higher power receiver.) With the Christmas and Boxing Day specials coming, I'm hoping I can get a suitable receiver within that budget. Note: my emphasis will be on music, with home theatre being secondary. I know this thread is not about receivers, so even though my question is focused on the compatibilty between NHTs and various receivers, some people might not think this is the right place for this discussion. So if you prefer, please feel free to PM me if you think it's more appropriate to discuss this outside the thread.

Thanks!

Dave

....

Another point I took into consideration was the appearance of the speakers. Honestly, I think 95% of speakers are ugly, and even those with expensive wood veneers still look like boring boxes. The enjoyment of music is all about appealing to the senses and emotion, so I think visual aesthetics play a part in this. It's a pity that even some wonderful sounding speakers look so boring and generic in their design. Instead, they should seek to be artful in all regards. Fortunately, the NHTs stand apart from the crowd. I love the sleek curved lines and piano black finish of the Classic series. To be blunt, these speakers are just plain sexy.
...

Welcome to the club of those that care as much for aesthetics as they do for the sound.
I often equate this to food where texture, smell, appearance, and place combine to be more important than taste (as long as the taste is not dreadful).


...
So I would like to ask those more experienced NHT owners out there if you can recommend a good, budget receiver (~ $300-450) that would match nicely with two sets of Zeros and eventually grow into a full 5 or 5.1 system (I hear that NHTs work best with a higher power receiver.) With the Christmas and Boxing Day specials coming, I'm hoping I can get a suitable receiver within that budget. Note: my emphasis will be on music, with home theatre being secondary. I know this thread is not about receivers, so even though my question is focused on the compatibilty between NHTs and various receivers, some people might not think this is the right place for this discussion. So if you prefer, please feel free to PM me if you think it's more appropriate to discuss this outside the thread.

Thanks!

Dave


Try a used Harman Kardon with at least 75w/ch off eBay.

I'm plan to buy following set up:
Denon 1910
NHT classic 2

I would like to start with 2.1 and then to add rear and maybe center. Room is closed 10x12. Mostly for movie and 20% music. My question what sub will go with NHT classic 2? Martin Logan dynamo, HSU STF2 or something else in this class? Thanks.

a good, budget receiver (~ $300-450) that would match nicely with two sets of Zeros and eventually grow into a full 5 or 5.1 system (I hear that NHTs work best with a higher power receiver.) Read batpigs posts about the Denon 590 / 1610 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1153086). If you think you might ever want 7 channels (or a second zone for stereo, IE, 5 + 2), or care about video features, especially being able to connect pre-HDMI devices, read up on the 790 / 1910 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1152799).

Or if you're convinced the the new "HD" audio formats don't matter to you and video features aren't critical, look for a deal on an older model (http://batpigworld.com/models.html) and buy more speakers.

Really it's not about which speakers you own, other than power requirements. It's about what features you want in a receiver.

Maybe this will seem strange to the audiophiles out there, but I could be perfectly content with these speakers, without the need to add a subwoofer.I love the AZ, and have a pair (as rear channels). If you are going to listen to any HT at all, you will be disappointed without a sub--it doesn't need to be expensive, or even new. I'm not a big fan of the NHT Classic subs - but would strongly recommend you get a sub for a system of all AZs, and just keep the volume relatively low. It will add a pleasing floor to the sound.

Looking back, I still wish I could have auditioned the Paradigm Minis and NHT Absolute Zeros side by side. Listening to them an hour apart with different music is hardly a proper A/B test. The price was exactly the same, but the Paradigms were definitely larger. Of course that does not necessarily mean they were better. If anybody has experience with both, I would be curious to hear your opinions.I thought the AZs were much more accurate and clean than the Minis, heard side-by-side (but not an ideal room as there were about 12 pairs of speakers in the room at the time).

Hey all - I have been interested in the classic line since it came out, but now am finally in a position to purchase. I am going for a semi-HT setup; I would love to go with the 4s, but most likely will go with the 3s and a 3c (and if possible 2s for the rear at this point).

Does anyone know if there is a place to get any kind of "package" deal? Or can these only be bought as individual/pairs? Thanks!Probably too late as your post was so long ago, but I bought C3s and a C3c for the front, and carefully listened to C2s and AZs for the rear. I thought the sound of the AZ was noticeably closer to the C3 than the C2 was to the C3, so I chose the AZ. If you read this entire thread, you will find others who agreed with me (and some who didn't).

I have a Integra DHC-80.1 Preamp which will be driving (2) NHT C4, 3C, (2) C3, and (2) Absolute Zero’s. The fronts will be controlled by the DHC-80.1. The question I have, what should I do with the 10″ bass? I have a NHT X2 which could control my (2) NHT A1 amps to the 10″ bass. My question is should I use the 2 Subwoofer Pre Out XLR’s and send them to the Nht X2 then to the A1 or bypass the X2 and go to the A1. If I go to the X2, what should I set the X2 controls to when I do a Audyssey setup.

Hi Dave,
Congrats on the AZs.

This site has nice deals on Marantz and Onkyo. I have NAD stuff, but have a son with a pair of old SuperOnes and a couple of generations ago Marantz. The Marantz sound strikes me as smooth and very nice with NHT. I think the appearance is wonderful, quite a nice aesthetic match with the AZ. Don't know what your budget is; I was thinking maybe 5003, 5002, 4003. (?) Anyway, here is the link:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/AVReceiver/Home-Audio/Home-Theater-Receivers/1.html

Subs really sound nice! Just something like this little guy would make the AZs sound a whole level better- richer, deeper (duh), more expansive.

http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=7

NHT L5 vs. Dali Ikon On-wall. Has anyone done a side by side comparison of these speakers. I have the L5s now for my front L/R and am considering moving them to the rear and using the Dali Ikon On-walls in the front. I haven't had a chance to listen to the On-walls though side by side with the NHTs. If anyone can help me with this I would greatly appreciate it.

We carry both lines but have never had the L5's in our showroom. I would have to say the Dali's overall are going to match the NHT signature mainly but having the ribbon tweeter they extend much higher than the NHT.

Just curious if the evolution line of subwoofers could be used in the xD line of speakers (xds, m60, m80) if properly filtered to balance with the other speakers.

News? True? link (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/611510.html)NHT is coming out with a new tower speaker at a lower price point than the 4, which is a 4 way. The new absolute tower will be a 3-way acoustic suspension design with 2 x 5.25" woofers, 1 x 5.25" midrange and 1 x 1" aluminum dome tweeter.

NHT should be releasing some more information about them this month.

News? True? link (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/611510.html)

Interesting, but would an AZ tower have bass performance much different, from, say, the Classic 3?

Good question. Having 2 x bass drivers should give it some more SPL. Plus some people would rather buy floorstanders than stands and stand mount speakers.

What struck me is that if true
- It's probably closer to what more people will buy, what with the tall skinny thing being in. the Four is something of a niche speaker for enthusiasts. Anyway, if it sells, that's good for NHT and NHT owners
- A new product is a good sign

I've got a set of NHT M5s that I've been pretty happy with, paired with an old set of VS-2As for surround speakers. I also have the U2 sub system. I'm preparing to upgrade to either a 7.1 or perhaps a 9.1 system and could use some suggestions on new surround speakers.

Would the Classic zero, 2 or 3 be a good match for the M5s? I'll probably retire the VS-2s since they're a bit on the bulky side.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Kent

Why not try to find a pair of used M5s or L5s?

I use the L5s as surround speakers for my 3, L-C-R M5s they're excellent.

I use SuperZero and SuperZero XU surrounds (wired w/reverse polarity) with my M5 L,R,C. Sounds great.

rmp

Hi, can anyone tell me if I can use the x1 or x2 crossover on non-nht speakers, subs? Thanks.

The x2 crossover was designed to work with non NHT speaker and subwoofers. The x1 was designed for use in evolution speakers and subwoofers. That being said I don't know if the x2 couldn't be used with NHT speakers and subs.

The X2 can be used with any subwoofers that don't require eq to flatten out their frequency response. The ONLY subwoofers that require this are the U1, U2, B5, B6 and the iWS. For these five subwoofers, you must use the X1.

Thanks for the quick response!!

Just wondering has anyone compared the Nht classic 4's with polk lsi15?

The X2 can be used with any subwoofers that don't require eq to flatten out their frequency response. The ONLY subwoofers that require this are the U1, U2, B5, B6 and the iWS. For these five subwoofers, you must use the X1.

Oh, what do you know about NHT products ;).




Jack was Director of Eng'r for NHT!

Pics and info about the forthcoming Absolute Tower on NHT's facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/NHTaudio?ref=search&sid=1247067653.3521325368..1

Pics and info about the forthcoming Absolute Tower on NHT's facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/NHTaudio?ref=search&sid=1247067653.3521325368..1Who knew they had a Facebook page? Thanks. Absolute Tower Specifications: Speaker type: 3-way - dual-woofer tower, acoustic suspension design. Drivers: 1” aluminum dome tweeter, 5.25” polypropylene cone midrange (in separate chamber), 2 x 5.25” polypropylene woofers. Crossover: 3rd order low pass and high pass at 450Hz, 2nd order high pass and low p...ass at 2.2kHz. Frequency response: 58Hz - 20kHz, -3dB Impedance: 8 ohms average, 4 ohms minimum.

Sensitivity: 86dB - (1W/1M). Distortion: <0.3% 150Hz-20kHz, 1% at 60Hz (1 watt). Dimensions: 36”H x 5.7”W x 7.25” D without the base. Height with base = 37.9”. Base: 10.63”W x 12”D. Weight: 35.6 pounds with the base attached

Some more good photos there too.

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs171.snc3/19833_249647828852_125078958852_3250286_4990119_n.jpg

To all you NHT experts, can anybody tell me the exact differences between the X1 and X2 electronic crossovers? I believe the X1 has some special EQ in it for certain subwoofers but is that it? The reason I'm asking is that I recently bought an X2 and I'm finding some information out there about the X1 but not so much about the X2. Thanks.

To all you NHT experts, can anybody tell me the exact differences between the X1 and X2 electronic crossovers? I believe the X1 has some special EQ in it for certain subwoofers but is that it? The reason I'm asking is that I recently bought an X2 and I'm finding some information out there about the X1 but not so much about the X2. Thanks.See post 8591 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17953554&postcount=8591) just back several posts.

Who knew they had a Facebook page? Thanks.

Certainly not I. They're so hip these days!

Some more good photos there too.

Very pretty. Still not convinced it will perform that differently from a Three, though. Frequency response is similar. Guess the tower probably has better power handling, though.

The large base is interesting; stylistically different from the Four. I guess it's necessary because it's tall and narrow, add some extra bass at the bottom so it doesn't tip over...

Xd sequel is next, right? ;)

See post 8591 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17953554&postcount=8591) just back several posts.Thanks but I was wondering if there are any other differences. The reason I'm asking is that in the review of the NHT T6 by IAR80 it goes into quite a bit of detail on how the X1 works. I'm curious if the 2 units are identical besides the subwoofer EQ on the X1.

Thanks but I was wondering if there are any other differences. The reason I'm asking is that in the review of the NHT T6 by IAR80 it goes into quite a bit of detail on how the X1 works. I'm curious if the 2 units are identical besides the subwoofer EQ on the X1.

Yes. The info in that review should be just as valid for the X2 as for the X1.

The AT Tower doesn't seem very appealing- unless it is priced around $500-600. I realize that the price of a stand should be figured in and that it has more drivers than an AZ and all that, but do many people want a low sensitivity, (probably) rather baseless, bright-signatured tower with a -3DB of 58 Hz? (And maybe "many people" isn't a goal here, so maybe that's a silly consideration.)

Was the old VT 1 a good seller?

why can't they come out with a Tower with the size and woofers like this new Absolute Tower but use the same mid and tweeter in the classic 3/4 for like $999/pr?Call it classic 3.5 or something like that. I'd be the first person to place a pre-order.

The AT is designed to be a lot like the VT1 was. A speaker without much bass extension by itself, since virtually everyone uses a subwoofer. For years NHT has fought the battle of sell someone a full range tower speaker and they still think they need a subwoofer, even if the results are always much worse sounding. Given this, there is really no point in making a wide, large speaker, that isn't full range. You might as well make a narrow tall speaker, that has a minimum footprint and visual size. This is what the largest part of the market wants.

The VT1 did sell quite well, especially considering how far ahead of the market is was.

There is no way to use the 1.5"/0.75" dome driver module out of the other Classic speakers in the AT. It would cost too much and then it wouldn't match the AT or AC.

I don't understand why Mr Wilson says that the AT is "bright-signatured" when I'm nearly 100% certain that he has never heard it.

I'd also like to address the comment about 86dB@2.83V being low sensitivity. This just isn't true. Most manufacturers lie big time about their speakers sensitivity. NHT just lies a lot less than the others:)

Since no one here has any particular reason to believe me about this, I'll refer you to an independent third party. The link below is to an article written by Jon Atkinson. He does all of the speaker measurements for Stereophile. He has done this for quite a long time. In the article he averages the measured sensitivity of all of the 261 loudspeakers that has measured in the last decade or so. The mean of all these measurements is 88dB. The median is 85dB. If you throw out the high sensitivity pro monitors that JA measured, since they aren't consumer loudspeakers, the distribution curve in the article will then look fairly Gaussian and the AT will actually be 1dB above average sensitivity!

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/99/index3.html

Why should anyone care about the sensitivity of the loudspeaker anyway? The only reason to care about the sensitivity of the loudspeaker, is that given a particular amplifier, it will determine the maximum SPL the speaker can produce at higher frequencies (above 120Hz or so). If one speaker has a sensitivity that is 3dB higher than another, than it can produce 3dB more maximum SPL than the other. That's it. A 3dB difference in SPL is not that big. Remember, the unit of a Bel was split up into tenths (deci-Bel) because 1dB is the smallest difference between two signals that humans can detect, under the best conditions.

<Rant off>

"Mr. Wilson" enjoyed your rant, Jack!

Yeah, I reckon I made an assumption on the 'bright' thing. The thought was just that, to my ears, the AZ is kinda brightly balanced to my ears if it's un-subbed. The guess was that, without much bass below 60 and the chance of something like a 'midbass hump' being pretty low, it wouldn't be a speaker that any sort of 'normal' person would use by itself. But, the more one thinks about it, I reckon it's geared toward someone who would definitely use a sub and care about flatness in its range.

I'm very interested in the NHT X2 so that I can use my subwoofer when listening to music in the pure audio mode. However, looking at the block diagram in the manual I see that it uses a 20 Hz high pass filter for the subwoofer outputs. I have Danley DTS 10 subs with high output down to 10 Hz. I am concerned that I will lose my subwoofers' extension below 20 Hz when watching movies. Is this correct? I don't see where these filters can be bypassed.

Who knew they had a Facebook page? Thanks.

Some more good photos there too.

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs171.snc3/19833_249647828852_125078958852_3250286_4990119_n.jpg


Looking good.

I still like the sound of my old NHT 2.1 speakers for HT use.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=164928&d=1264551535

The X2 can be used with any subwoofers that don't require eq to flatten out their frequency response. The ONLY subwoofers that require this are the U1, U2, B5, B6 and the iWS. For these five subwoofers, you must use the X1.

Why do you say these are the ONLY subs that require EQ?

Don't many other subs provide one or two band PEQ on their amp? Couldn't they benefit from additional EQ from a X1?

Do any subs need EQ if the AVR has OddyseyMultiEQ?

(honest questions - please educate me - that's what I'm here for :o)

EDIT: And in a 2.1 where virtual no 2 channel receivers have room correction, couldn't every sub do with the EQ capabilities?

I'm very interested in the NHT X2 so that I can use my subwoofer when listening to music in the pure audio mode. However, looking at the block diagram in the manual I see that it uses a 20 Hz high pass filter for the subwoofer outputs. I have Danley DTS 10 subs with high output down to 10 Hz. I am concerned that I will lose my subwoofers' extension below 20 Hz when watching movies. Is this correct? I don't see where these filters can be bypassed.




It says a 15 Hz HP filter in the X-2 block diagram at the NHT site. 200 Hz LP right before the output.

It says a 15 Hz HP filter in the X-2 block diagram at the NHT site. 200 Hz LP right before the output.

I can't seem to pull up the online block diagram. However, even though the manual's block diagram shows a 20 Hz HPF before the mono/stereo stage, the specifications show a frequency response of 15-220 Hz through the LFE input.
It seems as if the manual's block diagram is in error.

I have a Velodyne SMS-1 which has a high pass filter adjustable down to 5 Hz. I have it set at 10 Hz and was hoping I could bypass the X2 HPF and use the Velodyne's. 15 Hz is better than 20 Hz though.

Palmer,

The speaker in your photo is an M2.3, not an M2.1.

Boyd,

The X2 is -3dB at 15Hz.

Rick,

The Evolution subwoofers I listed require the EQ in the X1, because the enclosure/driver combination is -3dB at about 50Hz and then rolls off at 12dB/octave below this. Thus they require EQ to have flat response to 25Hz.

[QUOTE=Jack Hidley;18012817]Palmer,

The speaker in your photo is an M2.3, not an M2.1.

QUOTE]


As I recall from the pictures that I have seen the M2.3 (or was it the M2.3a?) has the tweeter mounted below the midrange driver. My M2.1 speakers look identical to that picture except perhaps for the midrange driver.

The M1.8's also look near identical.

Rick,

The Evolution subwoofers I listed require the EQ in the X1, because the enclosure/driver combination is -3dB at about 50Hz and then rolls off at 12dB/octave below this. Thus they require EQ to have flat response to 25Hz.

Thanks Jack - I understand why those ones need the EQ.

Am I correct though that the EQ can also be used for a sub with natural flat response into the 20s to deal with room issues in a 2.1 setup that would normally be taken care of in the AVR for a 5.1?

I am very interested in purchasing a pair of Classic 4's and a Classic 3 for my front speakers. I have an Acurus 200x3 amp and was wondering if that is an adequate power supply to drive them. If so, should I be looking at the Classic Twelve 200W sub or the 150? thanks so much for the help.

Fellas,

I have a friend that is putting together her first home theater system. I have been suggesting the merits of buying used and NHT. With that in mind, if anyone has a lead or knows of a system for sale, please drop me a line. It would be greatly appreciated... thanks in advance.

Palmer,

The speaker in your photo is an M2.3, not an M2.1.

Boyd,

The X2 is -3dB at 15Hz.

Rick,

The Evolution subwoofers I listed require the EQ in the X1, because the enclosure/driver combination is -3dB at about 50Hz and then rolls off at 12dB/octave below this. Thus they require EQ to have flat response to 25Hz.

Thanks Jack. The High pass cutoff at 15 Hz is probably low enough for most movies so bypassing the HPF is probably not worth it unless its easy.

I am of the impression that there are no ports on Absolute Zero, Classic 2 or Classic 3.

That's correct isn't it?

Palmer,

The M1, M1a, M1c, M1.1, M1.8, M2 (MII) and M2.1 all used the exact same woofer/midrange. The driver had a foam surround with a paper cone and a black paper dust cap. All of these models had the tweeter above the woofer/midrange.

The M1.3, M1.3a, M2.3 and M2.3a all had a woofer/midrange with a polypropelyene cone, rubber surround and a PVC dust cap. There were two versions of this driver used. In the M1.3a and the M2.3a, the woofer/midrange was mounted above the tweeter. Your photo above definitely shows the early M1.3/M1.3a/M2.3/M2.3a midrange driver.

Rick,

No. The eq is not variable. It is a fixed eq that has about 13dB of boost at 26Hz. If you used this with a subwoofer that had flat response, the system response would have a 13dB peak at 26Hz.

Boyd,

The corner frequency of the high pass filter can be set to any frequency you want by changing four resistors. You do not want to remove the filter.

I am of the impression that there are no ports on Absolute Zero, Classic 2 or Classic 3.

That's correct isn't it?

Right. They are sealed designs.

I have two sets of VT-1A towers with VT-1C centers. Both pair of towers need new crossovers, they work, it's just they are very touchy. NHT just released the new Absolute Towers. Do you think they would sound noticeably better than my 15yr old speakers? Is it worth putting money into the old speakers?
Thanks for any opinions

Have absolutely no knowledge when it comes to speakers but I have had the NHT VT-1 system for over 15 years and have thought they've done an excellent job. I have been itching to upgrading and like the NHT Four tower loudspeaker, the ThreeC Center, two Three Bookshelf for my surrounds (is this a good choice?) and this is where the first of my two questions arise, can I still use the Twelve 200W Subwoofer even thought the Four's have subs in them? Is this just a stupid idea? Also, there is no recommended power handling for the Fours. I have an Acurus 200x3 amp for my fronts and was wondering if that is safe, okay or even not enough power. thanks so much for taking the time to fill my empty head with answers.

Palmer,

The M1, M1a, M1c, M1.1, M1.8, M2 (MII) and M2.1 all used the exact same woofer/midrange. The driver had a foam surround with a paper cone and a black paper dust cap. All of these models had the tweeter above the woofer/midrange.

The M1.3, M1.3a, M2.3 and M2.3a all had a woofer/midrange with a polypropelyene cone, rubber surround and a PVC dust cap. There were two versions of this driver used. In the M1.3a and the M2.3a, the woofer/midrange was mounted above the tweeter. Your photo above definitely shows the early M1.3/M1.3a/M2.3/M2.3a midrange driver.




Got it. I grabbed those photos off of E-bay.

Right now my M2.1 look like the M2.3 units. I have a replacement woofer/midrange with a polypropelyene cone, rubber surround and a PVC dust cap (driver from the M 2.9). One of these days I will get around to the replacement of the surrounds on my factory drivers. I have located some rubber surrounds and I may try those instead of the foam.

I assume the 1.3 and 2.3 mid/woofers were not shielded, and all the other units had video shielded drivers.

I have two sets of VT-1A towers with VT-1C centers. Both pair of towers need new crossovers, they work, it's just they are very touchy. NHT just released the new Absolute Towers. Do you think they would sound noticeably better than my 15yr old speakers? Is it worth putting money into the old speakers?
Thanks for any opinions


What do you mean by "very touchy"?

I am pretty excited about the Absolute Tower. I was thinking about getting something like the Aperion 4T or 5T or the Monitor Radius to satisfy the wife. I don't have enough guts to order the Absolute Towers before the reviews come out, but it seems like a good fit for me (although I am still thinking about some used Totems).

What do you mean by "very touchy"?

The sound will cut out if you barely move or touch the A/V knob, like there is a short or something. I always leave them on the Video setting, but it seems like I am losing some sound.

The sound will cut out if you barely move or touch the A/V knob, like there is a short or something. I always leave them on the Video setting, but it seems like I am losing some sound.


Sounds like a dirty switch / cold solder joint / bad connection rather than a bad crossover. I have a pair of NHT 2.9's that I had to repair due to a few hairline cracks in crossover connector socket. A quick soldering job took care of that.

The switch is sort of part of the crossover but it can be serviced. Some contact cleaner should be tried after you take a closer look at the connections for the rotary switch (AKA remove switch and inspect back of it). Rotory switches are notorious for getting flaky as they age. Repair the speakers so you can sell them if you buy new ones.


NHT-MODEL-VT-1A-CROSSOVER-BRAND-NEW (http://cgi.ebay.com/NHT-MODEL-VT-1A-CROSSOVER-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ330287797944QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoof ers?hash=item4ce6afd6b8)

I am pretty excited about the Absolute Tower. I was thinking about getting something like the Aperion 4T or 5T or the Monitor Radius to satisfy the wife. I don't have enough guts to order the Absolute Towers before the reviews come out, but it seems like a good fit for me (although I am still thinking about some used Totems).

they have a code in their facebook page for free shipping if you pre-order them.

Their homepage says 30 day trial, too. If for some reason, you are not completely satisfied, you may return your product(s) within 30 days of the initial order date for a full refund of the actual purchase price including the shipping charges.

Also a deal there for 5.1 for $1500, with a Classic Ten. That's pretty incredible for someone who needs a 5.1.

Or get the towers and an AZ center for $1K.

They must really be trying to get people to give them a try, overcome concerns like rogmatic's.

Homepage (http://www.nhthifi.com)

Can I just say though that whoever coded their website should be waterboarded?

My other concern about the AT is that they cost $1000, which is a decent amount more than the Classic 3s are going for now.

I'm trying to sell my classic three's now. :) I have the two bookshelves and the Three C. Center. Listed for $800 now but I could budge.

I'm hoping to upgrade to Monitor Audio RX8s or GS60s. Anyone else go that upgrade route btw?

My other concern about the AT is that they cost $1000, which is a decent amount more than the Classic 3s are going for now.

The cabinet had better be one HECK of a speaker stand, holding up essentially a souped up pair of AZs.

The cabinet had better be one HECK of a speaker stand, holding up essentially a souped up pair of AZs.

That is pretty much my concern. The fact that they are said to sonically match the absolute center makes me think they are really not more than AZs on stands. They should have more mid-bass though, and the idea of getting fuller and richer sound from AZs sounds pretty good to me.

The cabinet had better be one HECK of a speaker stand, holding up essentially a souped up pair of AZs.You did see the two extra drivers on each speaker, right?

There is also the reality that tower speakers are sort of as much furniture as an audio product. Lots of people here care mostly or only about audio, so the value for price isn't a match. That's not the case in the bigger market. Though $500 each, hard to say what the response will be.

And, it's easy to be a snob about the AZs but they are one of the better little speakers ever made, unless you want to spend a lot more money.

Anyway, what you have to realize is that the ATs are pretty much not for you guys. And that you guys probably can't keep NHT in business, especially since you keep your speakers forever. You have to try to look at this from a different perspective. IMO what's good for NHT is good for me. I hope they have some luck with the AT.

The styling of the Classics has always been an issue, unfortunately. You have to think more people don't buy them because of that, than do buy them because of that.

Updated Xd coming

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=125078958852&topic=15930

Interesting update on a new xD system. How do you post comments to their facebook page? I'd like to add a couple of thoughts to it in regards to the xDa.

Create a Facebook account and see if you can post.

You might need to ask to be a Friend, depending on their settings.

It would be nice if they could incorporate a digital input on the Xda. Also a Xd Tower would be cool.

You did see the two extra drivers on each speaker, right?

There is also the reality that tower speakers are sort of as much furniture as an audio product. Lots of people here care mostly or only about audio, so the value for price isn't a match. That's not the case in the bigger market. Though $500 each, hard to say what the response will be.

And, it's easy to be a snob about the AZs but they are one of the better little speakers ever made, unless you want to spend a lot more money.

Anyway, what you have to realize is that the ATs are pretty much not for you guys. And that you guys probably can't keep NHT in business, especially since you keep your speakers forever. You have to try to look at this from a different perspective. IMO what's good for NHT is good for me. I hope they have some luck with the AT.


I am one of those guys who will probably keep my NHT speakers forever.

I have a pair of the classic NHT 2.9's, and they are keepers.

I have a NHT 2.1/1.1 HT setup in my living room, and they are keepers.

I also have a full Evolution setup that I bought and have not setup in my soon to be completed multi-pupose room.


I think that I am all speakered out, like forever!;)


That being said, for the majority of living room setups the AZ towers / center are one nice looking package that will have decent performance in a smaller package. Obviously you need a subwoofer to go along with them. No recommended power was given in the specs, but I imagine they are somewhat SPL limited relative to larger speakers. For a living room system or modest Ht setup, the design looks to be a winner to my eyes.


Now this setup "looks" more appropriate for a living room setup to a lot of AVS posters. If anyone "needs" to have that kind of setup in a living room, then they should just move on!


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=166059&d=1265375323

Y
The styling of the Classics has always been an issue, unfortunately. You have to think more people don't buy them because of that, than do buy them because of that.

How so? I don't own any, but reading around, the general impression I've gotten is that the Classic line is well-regarded in terms of appearance. Particularly, the sleek rounded styling is a welcomed divergence from the generic, traditional rectangular box types.

I would agree that the tweeter configuration looks a little funky to me in pictures, but otherwise..

Oh, and glossy black is not to everyone's taste. Not my favorite finish by any means, but you could do a lot worse.

How so? I don't own any, but reading around, the general impression I've gotten is that the Classic line is well-regarded in terms of appearance. Particularly, the sleek rounded styling is a welcomed divergence from the generic, traditional rectangular box types.

I would agree that the tweeter configuration looks a little funky to me in pictures, but otherwise..

Oh, and glossy black is not to everyone's taste. Not my favorite finish by any means, but you could do a lot worse.

The two tone colored Xd's got slammed a bit for appearance, but I do not recall any negative reaction to the Classics.

That said, the 2, 3, and AZ do have sort of a "Darth Vader" Helmet vibe which I suppose some folks would not like. I have 2's, 3's, 3C, Absolute Center, and AZ's, all in Piano Black, and I think they look nice. YMMV.

BGL

Anyway, what you have to realize is that the ATs are pretty much not for you guys. And that you guys probably can't keep NHT in business, especially since you keep your speakers forever. You have to try to look at this from a different perspective. IMO what's good for NHT is good for me. I hope they have some luck with the AT.

The styling of the Classics has always been an issue, unfortunately. You have to think more people don't buy them because of that, than do buy them because of that.

Not all of us keep our speakers forever. In the 8 years I've been into this stuff I've had a complete 5.1 channel SuperAudio system, which I traded in for a 5.1 channel Classic system, and then I sold the fronts and sub and bought an Xd system. And then I have a SuperZero/SW1P system in my bedroom, although that's stayed pretty static.

I don't think I've heard complaints about the appearance of the Classics. I always thought they looked really classy, though I can see how perhaps they're too "serious" for some in the piano black.

Interestingly, though, nobody every really commented on them, but just about everybody comments on how beautiful the Xds look. Perhaps the Xds stand out more, but I'm always pleased, given how much people criticized the maroon/burgundy color scheme.

....... "Darth Vader" Helmet vibe ......

Ha! amusingly apt comparison. :D

I have a facebook account but no option to post, so I'll have to go back and try again. I'll probably keep my NHTs for a long time as well. I still have my 5.1 setup with Super Zeros XUs and a SW1. I moved to a full T5 setup and then bought an M60 setup. I'd love to get my hands on some more M60 or even better M80 gear but XdAs are in short supply. That's why I'm curious about the new versions and would like to post my thoughts or see what they're thinking in terms of direction.

I need to point out that I'm "rooting" for the ATs to succeed. I just keep thinking that SuperTwos were $750/pr and ST3s $1K. ATs may be "better" in many ways, but I'm just concerned about the perception of their value vs, for example, the PSB Image T5 or Paradigm Monitor 9. They seem "nichey". But maybe NHT isn't necessarily expecting to sell zillions.

OTOH, I never batted an eye about M5s being $900/pr. Maybe the AT is closer to the M5 than I realize, but I had an awful lot of respect for the M5 after hearing them.

That $1500 package is a fine deal, but how many of those can they do and not lose money?

And count me in as a major fan of Classic aesthetics.

The Classic Three's sound great with surround sound, especially when using Classic Three's in the rear. With high res TrueHD & DTS-HD, you need high res. speakers.
http://stereowiseplus.com/search/label/Home%20Theater

Any NHT Controller owners out there or has everbody moved on to something with hdmi 1.3?

Any NHT Controller owners out there or has everbody moved on to something with hdmi 1.3?I still have mine.

News of the AT towers & upcoming Xd upgrade is all & fine, but why in the world didn't they start with Classic 3 Towers first? Does anyone think that the new AT tower is a replacement for a Classic 3 ???

News of the AT towers & upcoming Xd upgrade is all & fine, but why in the world didn't they start with Classic 3 Towers first? Does anyone think that the new AT tower is a replacement for a Classic 3 ???Isn't the Classic Four (more or less) the Three Tower?

I thought the Classic Four was the next step up in the Classic Line or what you're referring to as a "classic three."

Isn't the Classic Four (more or less) the Three Tower?

Yes, I believe that is correct.

Brian

To anyone that can help:

I'm highly considering the Classic Threes to replace my almost 15 year old ( :eek: ) 2-way Cerwin Vegas RE20's, but I'm wondering if I need something more than just my Pioneer AVR (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/VSX-01TXH) to power them. I'll probably get an amp down the line, but for now, will the AVR be enough?

I'd also be getting the Three C center channel to accompany the Classic Three's if that matters. I'm also running an older Velodyne sub, as well as some cheapy Technics rears. Room is roughly 20' x 12' x 8' - fyi.

Thanks in advance.

Isn't the Classic Four (more or less) the Three Tower? Not even close; if you read through this thread, we've been calling for a classic 3 with mutliple woofers almost since the classics were announced. Also the 'four' is no match for a 'three' with the U1 sub system, especially if you have the stereo U1 setup. What we want is something like the AT but with the larger woofers of the 3. So while the AT is good, it's more like an M5 as compared to M6.

Not even close; if you read through this thread, we've been calling for a classic 3 with mutliple woofers almost since the classics were announced. Also the 'four' is no match for a 'three' with the U1 sub system, especially if you have the stereo U1 setup. What we want is something like the AT but with the larger woofers of the 3. So while the AT is good, it's more like an M5 as compared to M6.Maybe that's the narrow technical point of view. But with any consideration to a realistic product line and what's being offered to the market, with the goal of a business that works - that spot is covered well enough.

Unless they drop the Four and replace it with what you have in mind.

The 6.5" in the Three and the Four are different drivers. The Three uses a woofer (longer voice coil). The Four uses a lower midrange driver (medium length voice coil) in a much smaller enclosure. The midrange and tweeter drivers in both models are identical, but the crossovers are different.

To anyone that can help:



Since nobody has chimed in, I'll say "probably". A lot depends upon typical listening distance from the speakers and volumes played at. For the most part, yes, the Pioneer AVR should do fine. Will there ever be circumstances in which you might not be getting the last nth degree of performance from your speakers due to inadequate amplification? Maybe yes. I wouldn't worry about it, personally, unless you DO plan on driving these speakers at very high volumes very often and at the same time, seated in the rear third of the room.

If you haven't purchased already and you have the vertical space for it, you are better off using a third Classic 3 monitor for your center channel. That's generally true of all speaker models/brands/etc.. Center channels can be very good, but ultimately, it's always a slight or greater than slight compromise to using a matched third speaker to the left/right pair.

Not sure exactly how much of a compromise the Classic 3 dedicated center speaker would be. Probably splitting hairs to the average listener.

Since nobody has chimed in, I'll say "probably". A lot depends upon typical listening distance from the speakers and volumes played at. For the most part, yes, the Pioneer AVR should do fine. Will there ever be circumstances in which you might not be getting the last nth degree of performance from your speakers due to inadequate amplification? Maybe yes. I wouldn't worry about it, personally, unless you DO plan on driving these speakers at very high volumes very often and at the same time, seated in the rear third of the room.

If you haven't purchased already and you have the vertical space for it, you are better off using a third Classic 3 monitor for your center channel. That's generally true of all speaker models/brands/etc.. Center channels can be very good, but ultimately, it's always a slight or greater than slight compromise to using a matched third speaker to the left/right pair.

Not sure exactly how much of a compromise the Classic 3 dedicated center speaker would be. Probably splitting hairs to the average listener.

Thank you for answering. Seems as if the common, and novice NHT user/listener goes unanswered here. Again, thank you.

Craw,
Please remember that you are asking a question from with a very small group of people that use and love the NHT products. That being said I will try to answer your question when it comes to the receiver you wish to use with the Classic 3s. Unlike older NHT designs it appears that the Classic series are 8 ohm/86 db speakers and should not be a problem for most amplifiers to drive. Just remember that very few receivers can actually produce their quoted power into all channels being driven at the same time. As stated above, unless you plan to push the speakers to reference levels you should be ok with the receiver.
I disagree with CruelInventions statement about center channels. Properly designed and executed center channels should be selected over the speaker used for the left/right channels. NHT designed the center 3 speaker to match the acoustic properties of the classic 3 speakers and to be used as a horizontally placed center speaker. If a properly designed center channel speaker was not offered then I would agree with CruelInventions statement about matching the speakers across the front three channels.
I hope this further answers your question.

I should have the speakers on Thursday, and that day can't come soon enough! Thanks again, guys.

Craw, you won't be disappointed and welcome to the "club." :D

Thanks. I've been an NHT fan for a while now, (they're quite popular here in little ol' Des Moines, Iowa) and I've absolutely loved my Super Center I've had for almost ten years now. I think the 3c center is going to blow my mind when I first crank up that first BD.

Also, I know I should set my speakers to "small" in the AVR, but at what level should I set the crossover? 80Hz, or 50Hz? Maybe 50Hz, for when I listen to two-channel music, and 80Hz for movies? Suggestions welcome, and thanks again.

Thanks. I've been an NHT fan for a while now, (they're quite popular here in little ol' Des Moines, Iowa) and I've absolutely loved my Super Center I've had for almost ten years now. I think the 3c center is going to blow my mind when I first crank up that first BD.

Also, I know I should set my speakers to "small" in the AVR, but at what level should I set the crossover? 80Hz, or 50Hz? Maybe 50Hz, for when I listen to two-channel music, and 80Hz for movies? Suggestions welcome, and thanks again.

I did 80hz for movies 60hz for music. But it might depend on how "musical" your sub is.

I did 80hz for movies 60hz for music. But it might depend on how "musical" your sub is.

I don't know if it's all that "musical" but it's fine for now. My AVR only allows me to set the x-over to 80hz or 50hz (and higher). :(

I'll just have to mess around with it I guess. Which is always fun! :)


BTW - the speakers I bought were inthepit's and he's been nothing but a pleasure to do business with. I'll post a full review once I get the speakers, inspect them, and give them a listen. Thanks again, inthepit!

Any NHT Controller owners out there or has everbody moved on to something with hdmi 1.3?

I use one and like it very much. Thinking about downsizing as space has become limited in new home. Hate to let it go though...maybe I can find a way to keep it. Like the spkr wizard feature with my spkr setup...make things a breeze.

Not even close; if you read through this thread, we've been calling for a classic 3 with mutliple woofers almost since the classics were announced. Also the 'four' is no match for a 'three' with the U1 sub system, especially if you have the stereo U1 setup. What we want is something like the AT but with the larger woofers of the 3. So while the AT is good, it's more like an M5 as compared to M6.

With my 4's biamped with dual a1's/x2...it would probably give the u1 setup a run for it's money considering output and floorestate involved. And if it doesn't...my svs pb12 plus2 will make up for it...so much for the floorestate:D

I am trying out the Controller and the IR remote reception is terrible. Is this normal? You have to be directly in front of it and I have tried it with my universal also same results. other equipment in the rack is ok The controller itself is very musical and I like what it does for the 4's so far.

With the controller and you select the U2 W/O the X1 what high pass gets used 27hz? So far the bass in quite impressive.

Well I got my Classic Three's and Three C center yesterday... Simply put, I love NHT! These are my first "real" speakers, and man, I've been missing out!!! Dark Side of the Moon has never sounded so detailed, not to mention the countless other albums I listened to last night.

I just need to get some taller speaker stands and I'll be in business. I've read the entire thread, and haven't seen too many pictures of the 3's on speaker stands. Any pics/suggestions? Pics preferably. :)

Thanks!

The 6.5" in the Three and the Four are different drivers. The Three uses a woofer (longer voice coil). The Four uses a lower midrange driver (medium length voice coil) in a much smaller enclosure. The midrange and tweeter drivers in both models are identical, but the crossovers are different.

So which design is better then?

I am trying out the Controller and the IR remote reception is terrible. Is this normal? You have to be directly in front of it and I have tried it with my universal also same results. other equipment in the rack is ok The controller itself is very musical and I like what it does for the 4's so far.

Interesting...I don't have that issue and can be off axis quite a bit and signal gets transferred. I use harmony 880.

So this past weekend, my daughter though it would please daddy to stick her finger completely through the mid range dome on my new (but used) Classic 3c... I've sent an email to NHT asking for parts information, as I'd like to replace this myself. Anyone have any suggestions on what I should order, or what to expect when I go to replace this?

So which design is better then?

Whatever sounds best to you. :)

Milky,

I don't really understand your question. The 6.5" drivers in the Three and Four were designed to do different things. One was designed to produce bass down to 50Hz in a medium enclosure volume. The other was designed to produce bass down to 120Hz in as small an enclosure as possible. I don't see how it is possible to compare them and say one is better than the other.

So this past weekend, my daughter though it would please daddy to stick her finger completely through the mid range dome on my new (but used) Classic 3c... I've sent an email to NHT asking for parts information, as I'd like to replace this myself. Anyone have any suggestions on what I should order, or what to expect when I go to replace this?

Order the midrange driver and when you rec'v it...remove mid/tweet'r plate...remove screws from the damaged one...disconnect wires...give it to your daughter and say to her, "mine" and "yours" making clear which is which...reconnect wires to new mid...replace screws just snug...crank it up.

Thanks. I've been an NHT fan for a while now, (they're quite popular here in little ol' Des Moines, Iowa) and I've absolutely loved my Super Center I've had for almost ten years now. I think the 3c center is going to blow my mind when I first crank up that first BD.

Also, I know I should set my speakers to "small" in the AVR, but at what level should I set the crossover? 80Hz, or 50Hz? Maybe 50Hz, for when I listen to two-channel music, and 80Hz for movies? Suggestions welcome, and thanks again.

Using the Controller and spkr wizard I am not sure of the filter freq's used but I assume since I have a 3c and select that in setup that it's about the rated cutoff point of 65hz or so. You may loose a bit of info at a 50hz cutoff...with 80hz you would not be missing anything at all and for movies it will work fine.

CRAW,

You need to order an NPT-72-015-1 and leave the grille on the speaker:)

I thought the top section of classic 4 and the classic 3 itself are the same but since the bass drivers are different, I was just wondering how they compare. I guess it's not a very meaningful comparison since they serve different purposes.

CRAW,

You need to order an NPT-72-015-1 and leave the grille on the speaker:)

I did leave it on the speaker, and was only outside for MAYBE five minutes. Came back in, and went bezerk.

I got the part ordered through Bill in the parts department on Monday. He told me I needed part #NPT-72-009-1 which is as he told me the mid/tweeter module. Then I got a call from some shipping guy telling me I should order the crossover with the mid/tweeter module because it's easier to swap out that way. He said he would send it to me, but then I get the invoice and it still says part #NPT-72-009-1...? I don't know what I'm getting, but if it doesn't have the crossover (making it easier on me), I'll send it back and get the right part.

Using the Controller and spkr wizard I am not sure of the filter freq's used but I assume since I have a 3c and select that in setup that it's about the rated cutoff point of 65hz or so. You may loose a bit of info at a 50hz cutoff...with 80hz you would not be missing anything at all and for movies it will work fine.

Thanks! I guess I'll just have to manually change the crossover from 50 to 80 when I watch movies. My AVR changes the x-over for all settings (music, movies, etc) when I switch it. :(

Since we are chatting about the Controller...Im planning to get my first br player and use the 7.1 analog inputs. Ive read the Controller manual and it seems to me that whatever speaker settings that are derived from the eq-calibration software do not apply to the analog inputs? Is this correct? Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Ricky

Ricky,

Correct. The 7.1 analog input only has a simple bass management setup.

Doh! I need to find a br player that includes good analog bass management...

Or get an external device designed for managing the bass. I think Outlaw has such a product.

Or get an external device designed for managing the bass. I think Outlaw has such a product.

ICBM, but that has been out of production for years. They do frequently pop up on eBay though.

Brian

Letting go of Controller...any prospects? pm.

I did leave it on the speaker, and was only outside for MAYBE five minutes. Came back in, and went bezerk.

I got the part ordered through Bill in the parts department on Monday. He told me I needed part #NPT-72-009-1 which is as he told me the mid/tweeter module. Then I got a call from some shipping guy telling me I should order the crossover with the mid/tweeter module because it's easier to swap out that way. He said he would send it to me, but then I get the invoice and it still says part #NPT-72-009-1...? I don't know what I'm getting, but if it doesn't have the crossover (making it easier on me), I'll send it back and get the right part.

Look on the bright side...kudos to your daughters fine motor skills removing grill and zeroing in on her target:D

Look on the bright side...kudos to your daughters fine motor skills removing grill and zeroing in on her target:D

Yeah, she's brilliant. ;)

So I got the mid and tweeter module replaced - they shipped the one w/ the crossover, so it was just a simple "unplug, plug, and play" kind of procedure.

On a different note... This center (3c) is incredible!!! All of the Classics are for that matter.

Can someone give some insight about the development an technology behind the M80. I'm wondering if it is worth the trouble to buy digital crossovers etc. to run them. It seems like it could be a good deal.

Ok, how about what benefit, if any, is there to having a NHT Controller in the chain along with the XDa? Doesn't the XDa do all necessary processing? Does the NHT Controller just automatically do bass management?

I wouldn't think the Controller would perform the bass management for the Xd system. I have an M60 system and all bass is controlled through the XdA unit due to the filters downloaded into it.

Doh! I need to find a br player that includes good analog bass management...
Get a DENON 3800 from Listen Up at the amazing blowout deal... I can't recommend it highly enough for stunning picture AND especially sound via the analog outs!

I thought the top section of classic 4 and the classic 3 itself are the same but since the bass drivers are different, I was just wondering how they compare. I guess it's not a very meaningful comparison since they serve different purposes.

I recently had the mid-tweeter assemblies out of the Three and Four... they are indeed different crossovers for each model. Oddly, it appears the difference is in the mid/tweeter components... an inductor and capacitor...Jack?

So here's my latest M60 setup. I'm planning to try adding dual XdW's, but I haven't worked through the process of getting a filter yet.

http://hornskeith.com/audio/m60/m60_xda_va.JPG

- Oppo DV-980H player
- NHT PVC PC for volume control
- NHT XdA/M60
- Sanus SF26 stands

I'm actually on my 2nd XdA. My first one had intermittent issues with locking up or not "booting" properly. I sent it in back to NHT in the middle of 2009, but they couldn't reproduce the issue. When I set everything up after our move to Virginia, it was having problems daily, and I did a little better job of documenting its problems before sending it to NHT. Here's a picture of it locked up while trying to boot (sorry for the size):

http://hornskeith.com/audio/xda_problem/NHT_Xd_lockup_2.JPG

They offered to send me a replacement XdA, which was nice. The only mild disappointment in receiving the "new" XdA was that the new unit is pretty cosmetically ugly compared to the unit I sent in, which looked brand new. Here's an example- a large stain across the lighter section of the front panel:

http://hornskeith.com/audio/m60/xda_stain.JPG

But it does work, which is certainly better than a pretty unit that doesn't.

The Sanus stands are a recent addition as well. We have an inquisitive 10 month old who has been walking for over a month, and I was worried that he would pull the flimsy stands I had over onto himself. The Sanus stands, filled with sand, are a lot more stable, and I used 3M double-sided tape to secure the M60's to the top of the stands. It's not childproof, but it's a lot better.

Two problems with the Sanus stands:


One of the base holes for the outrigger was misdrilled. I called Sanus and left a message. They called me back the next day and shipped out a new base. Great, right? Except the replacement unit had a misdrilled hole as well. I think they must have a disgruntled employee somewhere in China. I modified the first base to make it work.
The columns are difficult to fill with sand. Instead of a large hole to add the sand (or lead shot), you get four tiny little holes, one of which is threaded for the top plate.


Since play sand generally comes wet, here's the process I had to use to get the sand in there.

- Spread sand onto tarp in sunny location and let dry during the day
- Sift sand using kitchen colander to remove rocks and larger pieces. They're larger than the column holes and will clog things up
- Place small automotive funnel against the middle hole on the column
- Slowly pour sifted sand into funnel
- Play relaxing music to pass the time while you sift and pour, sift and pour


Anyway, I'm pleased with how it sounds so far, though I need to do some work on placement and maybe some acoustic treatments. I wish I could get rid of that XdA stain, but it seems to on there pretty well.....

Keith

The Sanus stands are a recent addition as well. We have an inquisitive 10 month old who has been walking for over a month, and I was worried that he would pull the flimsy stands I had over onto himself. The Sanus stands, filled with sand, are a lot more stable, and I used 3M double-sided tape to secure the M60's to the top of the stands. It's not childproof, but it's a lot better.

I've got an identical pair of the Sanus stands (well, except for the mis-drilled holes) and I've been very pleased with them. Very stable, relatively attractive. I kept them around for my SuperZeroes after I replaced my Classic 3s with the Xd.

Except I can't believe the nerve of them to advertise them as fillable with sand/shot when they obviously were not designed to make that easy. I also ended up with play sand (all I could find) and foolishly tried to fill them on a rainy day in Houston. The sand clumped up a lot and everything was a big mess. In my haste I even messed up the linoleum in my kitchen with the carpet spikes (good thing it was a rental). I got them filled eventually, though. I'm sure dry sand would have been better to the stands' long-term health, but five years later they're still great.

I can't remember if I posted this, but last fall I acquired a Cambridge DACMagic. It was a huge upgrade over my NAD receiver's built-in DAC. And then I figured, what the hell, it has these balanced outputs so I might as well use them and bought a PVC Pro on sale. I wasn't expecting much, but it's a nice little upgrade over my receiver. So I switch from the receiver to the PVC when I'm doing serious listening.

I really didn't think the Xds were going to sound any better... but those relatively modest upgrades to my electronics made them shine even brighter.

Keith, I've got an M60 setup as well and have been looking for some good quality stands. I might pass on the Sanus stands since they aren't very stable and don't lend themselves well to being filled with sand. I'm trying to determine what I would add to my system. A second sub would be on my list as well as a dedicated pre-amp but your PVC solution might be better for me.

By the way has anyone ever heard the M80 system???

I can't remember if I posted this, but last fall I acquired a Cambridge DACMagic. It was a huge upgrade over my NAD receiver's built-in DAC. And then I figured, what the hell, it has these balanced outputs so I might as well use them and bought a PVC Pro on sale. I wasn't expecting much, but it's a nice little upgrade over my receiver. So I switch from the receiver to the PVC when I'm doing serious listening.

I really didn't think the Xds were going to sound any better... but those relatively modest upgrades to my electronics made them shine even brighter.

I've had this setup for about a year Xd, DacMagic, PVC Pro and am very satisfied. Source is Sony DV7000 for CD listening. Only drawback is no remote.

Keith, I've got an M60 setup as well and have been looking for some good quality stands. I might pass on the Sanus stands since they aren't very stable and don't lend themselves well to being filled with sand. I'm trying to determine what I would add to my system. A second sub would be on my list as well as a dedicated pre-amp but your PVC solution might be better for me.


The Sanus stands are pretty stable once you get them set up and honestly, now that they're done, I'm satisfied with them. I just thought the process and quality control were a little more of a pain than they should have been. I'm still not sure what stands would be notably better for the ~$140 shipped I paid for them.

The PVC solution works great as long as you're not switching sources and don't mind the lack of a remote control. I'm sure somewhere down the line I'll want to be able to handle a couple of sources plus a headphone amp, but for now it's a good solution (especially for the price).

By the way has anyone ever heard the M80 system???

I'm sure Jack has, but probably no one else. It seems like the M80 development got stopped somewhere midcycle since there aren't even filters for it on the NHT page.

Keith

I've had this setup for about a year Xd, DacMagic, PVC Pro and am very satisfied. Source is Sony DV7000 for CD listening. Only drawback is no remote.

Yes, I recall you posted about it right before I bought the DACMagic, and inspired me to look into the PVC Pro. Of course, no remote is kind of annoying, but when I have the PVC hooked up I'm only using one source anyway. I miss it more for the DAC Magic, which I also use with my regular home theater system, and have to switch digital ins manually.

Yes, I recall you posted about it right before I bought the DACMagic, and inspired me to look into the PVC Pro. Of course, no remote is kind of annoying, but when I have the PVC hooked up I'm only using one source anyway. I miss it more for the DAC Magic, which I also use with my regular home theater system, and have to switch digital ins manually.

Just got the April 2010 Stereophile and the DACMagic is one of their class B recommended components.

Only real annoying issue I have right now with this setup is an occasional hum. I originally thought it was loose connectors but now I think its the proximity of the DACMagic & PVC to the XDa. I need to get longer balance interconnects to see if this will eliminate the hum altogether.

Used to have a Sonos hooked up to the DACMagic & used an the itouch as volume control but moved the Sonos to living room for background music. I just use the XD system for its intended purpose, 2 channel critical listening, so lack of remote for volume not a big deal.

I don't believe the M80s were halted mid development. NHT had them at a show for a a true 5.1 system with an S80 for each channel. The list price at the time was $45,000. You can order M80s from the NHT website and I'm sure Jack can create filters for them. The biggest caveat with them is the need to use a single xDa for each channel. If you go that way....I'm still wrestling with the idea of trying to recreate that system.

So my NAD T753 died. I'm waiting to hear back on repair cost—if it's more than it's worth I'll be looking for either a home theater receiver or pre/pro + 2 channel amp (for the rear speakers, since the fronts are Xd) in the $600-1000 range.

So far, considering NAD, Denon/Onkyo/Marantz, Emotiva pre/pro+amp, NHT Controller. mmnc recommended looking at used Outlaw/Integra pre/pros when I inquired about his (already sold) Controller.

I know this is more of a speaker thread, but advice would be appreciated.

Hi Matt,
I can try to answer questions regarding the NHT Controller...

Regards,
Ricky

A "spy shot" of some new subs posted on the NHT facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3711606&id=125078958852

Gee, they look like the evolution subs... Did anyone else see the "wall of sound" picture?

Gee, they look like the evolution subs... Did anyone else see the "wall of sound" picture?

You mean this?

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/443/nht.jpg

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4200/dizzy2.gif

That's the one! :D

Whaddya think I get get my son for his 21st B-Day- a used Classic 10 Sub- if the price can be right- or a new <$200 12"er from Dayton or BIC that seem to get mentioned a lot at AVS? He has my old SuperOnes with a recent 80wpc Marantz receiver. Reasonable taste in music, albeit with a bit too much hip-hop.:)

Now this is a "Wall Of Sound" !!
http://www.dead.net/sites/deadbeta.rhino.com/files/images/19731130_0942.jpg

Whaddya think I get get my son for his 21st B-Day- a used Classic 10 Sub- if the price can be right- or a new <$200 12"er from Dayton or BIC that seem to get mentioned a lot at AVS? He has my old SuperOnes with a recent 80wpc Marantz receiver. Reasonable taste in music, albeit with a bit too much hip-hop.:)

I would think the Classic 10 Sub, but if he truly is into hip-hop, maybe a big ol' 12" sub would be better...? IDK.

I would agree with the 10 if he likes controlled bass but since you mentioned hip hop he may prefer the 12.

Hello everyone!

Can I use an Absolute Zero (http://www.nhthifi.com/Absolute-Zero-White_2?sc=12&category=1210) pair with a (Pinnacle 8" sealed) sub for music in a moderate/small room? I intend to move them to the back when I save enough for the towers or the Classic 3 (they are way over my head right now) :)

I am considering these Zero's or a pair of Wharfedale...

Thanks & regards,
ib.

I use 3 AZ's across my front stage with an old 12" klipsch sub. It's a small room, but I'm amazed at how good dolby digital sounds.

I use 3 AZ's across my front stage with an old 12" klipsch sub. It's a small room, but I'm amazed at how good dolby digital sounds.

Hi!
Thank you for your input.

Are you mentioning movie or music?
My priority is music. Not "boom box" type, just classic rock, jazz, classical,... And I love details, a lot :)
If possible, could you describe more about the sound characteristics? Thanks a lot!


Regards,
ib.

Hello everyone!

I go ahead and order a Absolute Zero pair.

Thanks & regards,
ib.

Hey guys, I just bought Classic Threes, and will order the Classic Three Center very soon.

What do you guys recommend for surrounds? 95% of my listening will be with movies, my lounge is up agains the wall where the surrounds will be as well, and the wife has to approve the looks.

Because of this some options are

PSB Image S5
http://www.soundsandcinema.com/images/items/IMAGES5.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8273/psbs5.jpg

Aperion 4BP
http://www.aperionaudio.com/ImageCachce/26-703-SkuCategoryImage.jpeg

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1853/aperion4bp.jpg

Aperion 5BP
http://www.aperionaudio.com/ImageCachce/26-267-SkuCategoryImage.jpeg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3897/aperion5bp.jpg


Axiom QS8
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/diy-speakers/13015d1236348209-good-kit-set-dyi-surrounds-qs8cherrygrilleoff2.jpg

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8878/axiom.jpg

Energy RCR
http://www.superiorhifi.com/images/Energy/rcr.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3544/eneergysurround.jpg

I think the PSB and Energy are at the top of my list.

Hey guys, I just bought Classic Threes, and will order the Classic Three Center very soon.

What do you guys recommend for surrounds? 95% of my listening will be with movies, my lounge is up agains the wall where the surrounds will be as well, and the wife has to approve the looks.


NHT advises (and I agree) to skip the dipole speakers—they were a good idea when Dolby ProLogic was the only game in surround, but for anything that uses discrete channels you're better off with a traditional speakers.

NHT speakers would match best, of course. AZs worked great as surround speakers in a configuration pretty similar to what you're looking at. Another pair of Threes would, of course, be even better if you have the space and money.

NHT advises (and I agree) to skip the dipole speakers—they were a good idea when Dolby ProLogic was the only game in surround, but for anything that uses discrete channels you're better off with a traditional speakers.

NHT speakers would match best, of course. AZs worked great as surround speakers in a configuration pretty similar to what you're looking at. Another pair of Threes would, of course, be even better if you have the space and money.

Need something that looks good up against the back wall. Classic Two's/Three's doesn't fit the mold.

And I guess BiPole is better than DiPole for when up against the back wall right?

The Aperion 5BP would get my vote as looking compatible, physically and specs-wise.

Hi all, I'm looking to upgrade my center channel. Right now, I have a pair of SuperTwo's as mains and 5 SuperOne's ... I want to make sure this center (timbre) matches or is very close to my SuperTwo's. Would the ThreeC be a good fit or am I better off replacing the SuperTwo's as well?

TIA.

You might try to find a Super Center as I believe it was voice matched with the other "Super" speakers in the line.

The Aperion 5BP would get my vote as looking compatible, physically and specs-wise.

I like the Aperion and PSB the most.

Like how they will both have a tweeter and woofer aimed towards the center seating. Directional is supposed to be a good thing for surrounds right?

Then again I like how the Energy RC-R Surround is a 3 way design like my NHT's...

Well, I went in a different direction re: a sub for my son- an SW2Pi system. I took a bit of a chance, perhaps. It looked "OK" (on ebay), not mint, not trashed. There are bound to be some miles on it, but the woofer looked just fine (and the cabinet looked like a 7, anyway) and ought to have a lot more.

So we'll see if the SA-2 amp has some "Bryston" in her. I used to have an SW1P and always had the feeling that the SA-1 would last forever. Worst case, he could run the SW2 passive for a while if the amp died, no?

The nice thing is that it can be hooked up using the pre-out/main-ins of his Marantz receiver and get selectable high-pass filtering for his SuperOnes. I decided the #1 goal ought to be making the SOs sound like a larger, richer integrated speaker rather getting hung up on things like extension and SPLs.

Looks like he'll have to listen to more jazz and classical instead of hip-hop and Kings of Leon (actually, I think the Kings will sound just fine on this rig).;)

Anyway, for <$200 shipped, the risk seems minimal.:)

Picked up my Absolute 5.1T system yesterday.

Words cannot describe the build quality on these puppies. Definitely worth every penny. Still playing around with tuning and what not but from what I heard yesterday, they sound GREAT.

I'm very happy with them and would recommend the towers to anybody who's looking for speakers in this price range.

Nice - just realized this was my first post.

Picked up my Absolute 5.1T system yesterday.

Words cannot describe the build quality on these puppies. Definitely worth every penny. Still playing around with tuning and what not but from what I heard yesterday, they sound GREAT.

I'm very happy with them and would recommend the towers to anybody who's looking for speakers in this price range.

Nice - just realized this was my first post.

Nice(!), but no pics? :(

Nice(!), but no pics? :(

Haha....I'll take some tonight. Here's a teaster:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b68/joecrappa/IMG_0406.jpg

^^^ That looks SO fun! :jealous:

Picked up my Absolute 5.1T system yesterday.

Words cannot describe the build quality on these puppies. Definitely worth every penny. Still playing around with tuning and what not but from what I heard yesterday, they sound GREAT.

I'm very happy with them and would recommend the towers to anybody who's looking for speakers in this price range.

Nice - just realized this was my first post.

Let us know how they sound....I almost ordered them myself. Its almost impossible to find affordable sealed 3-way towers.

This is my first hifi experience and I'm still tuning them, but they sound AMAZING. At the end of Hotel California (Live), I swear I almost thought I was there.

Here's a picture of the current setup. Going to mount the TV onto the wall and move the speakers/couch to get a proper 5.1 setup going.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4066/4587917360_db2f0f9c3c.jpg

Hello!

The towers look fabulous!
How is their bass response without the sub? Why didn't you get the Three instead?

How do they sound?

Those speakers look beautiful! I can only imagine the sound! Nice job!

Thanks for the comments, everyone. The speakers look and sound ridiculous. I ran the MCACC last night on my VSX1019AHK and the speakers sound very full. Music and movies have never sounded so good.

Why I didn't get the threes: I wanted something new and affordable. These speakers are definitely going to follow me around for a while.

I would definitely recommend purchasing this set for anybody who's looking for accurate and full speakers. Paired with a good receiver, this system meets and exceeds movie theater sound quality and rumble.

(<---joecrappa's roomate who is also an aspiring audiophile) They sound pretty f'in amazing. I've never previously heard home theater speakers with this level of clarity, brilliance, imaging and fidelity while sounding so silky soft and smooth on your ears. Think rubbing butter in your ears ;)

We've used the MCACC (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/Enhanced+Content/Receivers/Tuning/MCACC) feature on the Pioneer VSX-1019-AH-k to compensate for the poor speaker positioning situation we have now, and WOW did it make a difference. It uses a microphone that the receiver came with that is placed at wherever you want the audio sound-stage/focal point to be set, then figures for speaker distance, individual volume level adjustments, and EQ settings for each speaker; Pretty nifty!

I should also add that we have the two front speakers (Absolute Towers) and the center (Absolute Center) being driven in "Large" mode, and the two surrounds (Absolute Zeros) driven in "Small" mode with the subwoofer ("Ten")
crossed over at 80hz. We tried 100, and 150hz x-over points, but 80 seemed to sound the best.

The MCACC detected the correct distances for each speaker within roughly 6", verified that none of the speakers were out of phase, and also on the front and center speakers turned up the 60hz frequency alot on the individual speaker EQ's. It was nice to see that it set identical EQ values for each matching pair of speakers. I'm pretty sure with my old set of Boston satellites, each speaker wasn't identical like this when we ran MCACC, so it had to compensate for each speaker. End result is a very well balanced, serene, warm sound. When gun-shots are fired, and shell casings are ejected, its aluminum tweeter rings crystal clear, crispy, and accurately, with the tower's woofers booming accurately all the way down to 80hz.

The real beauty of this system is that it seems to be able to maintain this "effortless" clarity all the way through the volume range. I've yet to hear a single blip of distortion from any speaker. *A+* Even though I didn't personally spend the $$ for this set of speakers, I would gladly do so for its current selling price ($1500) and wouldn't look back. I think I can speak for my roomate (joecrappa) that we're *VERY* happy with the build quality, styling, and performance of these speakers.

Hi!

Do you think they are good/great for music?
I think the Three should have better bass responses thanks to the larger woofer, right?

Thanks & regards,
ib.

Hi!

Do you think they are good/great for music?
I think the Three should have better bass responses thanks to the larger woofer, right?

Thanks & regards,
ib.

I wouldn't know about the Three since I've never heard them.

Hi!

Do you think they are good/great for music?
I think the Three should have better bass responses thanks to the larger woofer, right?

Thanks & regards,
ib.

Actually the absolute zero should sound fuller in the midrange and be more dynamic than the three as it has a 5 1/4" midrange vs the three's 2" midrange. It also has two 5 1/4" woofers vs the three's one 6 1/2 woofer. I hope NHT does a larger version with two 6 1/2" woofers. That would be the perfect speaker to mate with a sub.

To answer your question in a word: "Yes" The Absolute Zero towers and bookshelves sound awesome for music sans a sub, but you'll still be missing a large quantity of bass without a dedicated sub-woofer. If that isn't an issue to you then so be it. Going with Classic Three bookshelves will still not bring you the (LOW) bass that a single 10" woofer will add into your system. Movies dip down well below 30hz usually at a pretty loud volume for things like explosions, and even though that "Classic Three" CAN hit 45hz, I can almost guarantee it'll be a "labored" bass. ie the woofer is struggling and probably distorting to produce this bass. For lack of cone area, and the fact that this one single woofer is tasked to recreate the entire spectrum of bass, AND mid-bass, I seriously doubt that it'll sound as accurate at higher volumes as a larger system with more driver/frequency range separation.

I won't dare speak negatively toward the Classic Three series, BUT it really depends on your environment; space constraints & other speakers in use that would drive you to use this instead of the "Absolute Zero" bookshelf or the "Absolute Tower".

As far as sound quality and bang for buck "Absolute Tower" > "Classic Three" bookshelf, BUT that's only if you have the space in your house for one. The "Three" does have a larger woofer @ 6.5" than either the "Absolute Tower" or the "Absolute Zero" bookshelf, however the "Absolute Tower" is also a 3-way design, and has 2x 5.25 mid-bass woofers which when summed up equate 10.50" (per tower)worth of woofer real-estate which despite being 1dB down on sensitivity, will give you MORE, fuller, and more accurate bass with the same amount of input power. You're having to "push" those 2 woofers in the "Absolute Tower" much less to get the same bass output as the one 6.5" woofer. The frequency response cutoff on the "Classic Three" IS lower than either the tower or bookshelf in the Absolute line, but unless you aren't running a sub, I see no reason to have them hit bass that low which the "Ten" subwoofer does very well. It sounds awesome even all the way up to 150hz!

The "Classic Three" bookshelf is absolutely superior to the "Absolute Zero" bookshelf; just look at the specs below. It is also priced more than double!

If you live in an apartment and can't have a subwoofer, I'd say the Three bookshelf as a FRONT speaker (in LARGE mode) is a good bet since space is probably also an issue preventing you from using the towers. Then perhaps use "Absolute Zero" bookshelf as rears (in LARGE mode) and a ThreeC for the center (also in LARGE mode). All speakers in LARGE mode eliminate the LFE (subwoofer pre-out) output pretty much. Pretty sure if you were to buy a 5.0 system consisting of all "Three" line speakers, you'd be well more in the hole than with the "Absolute 5.1T" system that you can simply just turn down :)

The low-volume performance of this system is actually one of the most impressive aspects in my opinion. Regardless of the volume setting, the sound these things belt out always remains balanced and serene. This of course mainly has to do with tuning, but the speakers just sound so warm and smooth, and generally a pleasure to listen to. My roomate and I frequently have guests over and almost always have www.pandora.com (http://www.pandora.com) (@ 192kbps MP3) streaming background music at a relatively low volume. Once we hooked up these NHTs, it went from an option to a must. We're addicted now!

You really can't get a much better bang-for-buck that I see than going with the Absolute 5.1t (http://www.nhthifi.com/NHT-Absolute-5-1T-System?sc=12&category=3830) with NHT. They've put together a VERY nice package at what I would consider to be an extremely competitive price ($1500) that is :)

"Absolute Tower" specs:

Speaker type:3-way - dual woofer tower, acoustic suspension design.
Drivers: 1” aluminum dome tweeter, 5.25” polypropylene cone midrange (in separate chamber), 2 x 5.25” polypropylene woofers. Crossover: 3rd order low pass and high pass at 450Hz, 2nd order high pass and low pass at 2.2kHz.
Frequency response: 58Hz - 20kHz Impedance: 8 ohms average, 4 ohms minimum.
Sensitivity: 86dB.
Distortion: 0.3% 150Hz-20kHz, 1% at 60Hz (1 watt).
Dimensions: 36”H x 5.7”W x 7.25” D without the base.
Height with base = 37.9”.
Base: 10.63”W x 12”D.
Product Weight: 35.6 pounds with the base attached.

"Absolute Zero" Bookshelf specs:

System type - Bookshelf speaker
Configuration - 2-way acoustic suspension design
Woofer - 5.25” polypropylene cone
Tweeter - 1” aluminum dome
Frequency Response - 71Hz-20kHz
Crossover Frequency - 3 kHz
Crossover Slopes – 18dB LP, 18dB HP
Sensitivity - 86dB (2.83v@1m)
Impedance - 6 ohms nominal
Inputs – 2 each professional grade,
nickel plated 5-way binding posts
Speaker Dimensions - 9.75"H 5.625"W x 7.25"D
Weight - 8 lbs

"Classic Three" Bookshelf specs:

System Type: Bookshelf speaker
Configuration: 3-way acoustic suspension design
Woofer: 6.5" aluminum cone
Midrange: 2" aluminum dome
Tweeter: 3/4" aluminum dome
Frequency Response: 45Hz-20kHz
Crossover Frequencies: 800Hz, 3.2kHz
Crossover Slopes: 12dB LP, 12dB HP, 18dB LP, 18dB HP
Sensitivity: 87dB (2.83v@1m)
Impedance: 8 ohms nominal
Inputs: 2 each professional grade, nickel plated 5-way binding posts
Speaker Dimensions: 13.75" x 7.5" x 10.375"/185mm (H x W x D)
Weight: 20 lbs./9.1 kg each

Yeah...what ^^ he said.

speakers sound real good.

FYI, NHT Anniversary Sale (http://www.nhthifi.com/), 18% off May 19-20, or at Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=274)

So I grabbed an old SA-2 and SW2 (not SW2si) cheap for my college son to combine with his SuperOnes and '06 80 wpc stereo Marantz receiver with pre-outs and main-ins, thinking that would make for a convenient hookup method with high pass filtering available if desired.

It came to my house, where I set things up with my NAD C340 and SB2s (didn't wanna give it to him it it didn't work or sucked too much). Using the NAD's pre-put and main-ins, I used hookup method #2 from the SW2Pi manual:

L&R speakers connected to NAD's speaker terminals;

RCA interconnects running from NAD's pre-out to the SA-2's line-in.

RCA interconnects running from SA-2's sat line-out to NAD's main-in.

Red is on red, white is on white.

I get bass and one SB2 (right channel - left from sitting position, however that works). There is sub sound when your turn the balance button to the side of the silent SB2.

Am I missing something? The ol' 304 and SubTwo controller work just fine exchanging interconnects between their line-level sockets.

I suppose I could have faulty interconnects. (?) Taking out the sub and putting the jumpers back on the NAD's pre-main holes produces 2 happy SB2s.

NHT says I need splitter thingie(s), but doesn't say how to hook up in anything resembling English. After rereading my e-mail to them (challenged), I wonder if anyone understood what I was doing, anyway. I don't see why using the exact method recommend by the manual wouldn't work.

Maybe a shelled old SA-2 just isn't firing back to the NAD right?

:confused:

Actually the absolute zero should sound fuller in the midrange and be more dynamic than the three as it has a 5 1/4" midrange vs the three's 2" midrange. It also has two 5 1/4" woofers vs the three's one 6 1/2 woofer. I hope NHT does a larger version with two 6 1/2" woofers. That would be the perfect speaker to mate with a sub.

I guess both would require a sub, so a better midrange speaker (the tower) should be the winner. Thank you for the input.

Best,
ib.

I should also add that we have the two front speakers (Absolute Towers) and the center (Absolute Center) being driven in "Large" mode, and the two surrounds (Absolute Zeros) driven in "Small" mode with the subwoofer ("Ten") crossed over at 80hz. We tried 100, and 150hz x-over points, but 80 seemed to sound the best.

I too have a Pioneer AVR (VSX-THX01), and I'm a bit confused with the above statement. You have the towers and center set as "Large" and you're using a subwoofer? Doesn't that take the subwoofer out of the equation (by setting the speakers to "Large")? I set my Classic Three's to "Large", SW set to "Yes" (not "Plus"), x-over at 80, and I can't hear my sub at all. That all of course changes when I set the subwoofer to "Plus" and leave the speakers at "Large" - the sub sounds way too boomy to me.

I'm not questioning you, but like I said, I'm rather confused with your above statement.

Hello all you NHTers. After much thought, I've decided to go with the NHT Classic Series. I just haven't heard anything else even close to the same price with imaging and detail like they have. Sexy looks too.

Now, the only question is - should I get a pair of Fours for front mains and to handle the bass duty, or should I get a pair of Threes with a U2 sub system for mains and bass? I'd say it will be for about a 50/50 split of movies and music.

I have poured over this thread, and have seen some posters say the Fours are the way to go, and others say the Threes with a U2 would be the way to go.

I realize I could also add the X2 and A1s to the Fours, and that a pair of Threes will obviously need a good set of stands too, so all of that has to be factored into the cost as well, but if all things are equal or at least close to being the same in price, what is the general consensus?

TIA

I have a quick question for the NHT gurus around here. I LOVE my classic threes, fan-frickin-tastic speakers paired with my Arcam AVR-300. though only one problem has come up, the finish now has very small scratches because of a certain roommate wanting to wipe the dust off of them with his hand (or write something in it).

Whats the best way of shining the finish back to its beautiful deep black? Its really not that bad but sticks out when its on the top and they are the only imperfection on them.

Thanks for any help!

Yeah...what ^^ he said.

speakers sound real good.

I just purchased the NHT Absolute 5.1t today as well. Price was too good to pass up especially with the 18% off, **** (sorry no prices allowed) shipped!!!!!!

My question is I need to get speaker wires for everything where do i begin?? what size gauge, do i need banana plugs(advantageous?) sub wires? Do the ones from mono price work? the subwoofer wire on nht's website has a little wire clip coming off the rca plug, the ones on mono price do not is this necessary?

If anyone could just point me in the right direction in terms of wiring on the new nHT absolutes i would appreciate it.

I looked on the web site and really couldn't find anything specific on these new speakers.

I have a quick question for the NHT gurus around here. I LOVE my classic threes, fan-frickin-tastic speakers paired with my Arcam AVR-300. though only one problem has come up, the finish now has very small scratches because of a certain roommate wanting to wipe the dust off of them with his hand (or write something in it).

Whats the best way of shining the finish back to its beautiful deep black? Its really not that bad but sticks out when its on the top and they are the only imperfection on them.

Thanks for any help!
To remove scratches, use car polish wax.

Classic 3s in my homeoffice set.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff192/galvs/P1060761.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff192/galvs/P1060760.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff192/galvs/P1060762.jpg

Amazing sound...

Now, the only question is - should I get a pair of Fours for front mains and to handle the bass duty, or should I get a pair of Threes with a U2 sub system for mains and bass? I'd say it will be for about a 50/50 split of movies and music.

I would go 3's with the U2 system, simply because you will have a great deal of placement flexibility with separate subs that you will lose with the 4's handling the low end.

Next down the line would be using the X2/A1 and bi-amping the 4's.

My last choice would be just running the 4's large with no sub.

My HT rig is 3's, 3c, 2's, and a AZc (center back) with a HSU 1225 sub. Wonderful sound. I do own a U2 system, but use that in a 2CH rig in another room. It is actually fun to run the U2's with a pair of AZ's I also own.

Brian

To remove scratches, use car polish wax.

I've heard this as well.