Of course, the Sony is widely accepted to be one of the quietest projectors, period, so I cant imagine running it in HAM is going to make it that loud.


Yes, although it is a bit louder than HAM off, it doesn't bother me and I rarely notice it. I think the HS60 fan noise is not intrusive (no high pitch or whining). Of course, this is subjective and some people may be more sensitive to it.

Dave.

I need to know if the 51a has a threaded section at the lens where a filter or, in my case, an IMX lens could be attached.

Threads or no threads?

TIA!

I need to know if the 51a has a threaded section at the lens where a filter or, in my case, an IMX lens could be attached.

Threads or no threads?

TIA!
Tell you on Friday...have an HS51A, ceiling mount, Avia disc, and Stewart Firehawk Luxus Deluxe on the way!

Heading to RadioShack to buy cables, connectors, etc to do some wiring tomorrow.

Tell you on Friday...have an HS51A, ceiling mount, Avia disc, and Stewart Firehawk Luxus Deluxe on the way!

Heading to RadioShack to buy cables, connectors, etc to do some wiring tomorrow.
I'll greatly appreciate your response!

and . . . WOO HOO FOR YOU!!! :eek: :D :cool:

Since we cannot clean the filter, do you know when we should we replace it ???

THanks.


It's commonly accepted that heat is probably the most responsible for pj components failure, especially the lamp, but also (in LCD pjs) for polarizer and LCD panel degradation. The Sony is supposed to have a good airflow design, so it's probably not necessary to run it at high altitude (fast fan) mode, but it does stay cooler if you use that mode. Also, don’t forget to pay attention to the filter replacement period. Lamp duration seems to vary a lot, though, indicating that sometimes it's just a matter of luck.

Having said that, I've been using my HS60 mostly in high altitude mode (even though I shouldn't need it), and I only disable it when watching very quiet movies or when listening at very low volume (late at night). I don't know if this will make any difference to lamp life (or polarizer and LCD panel life).

Dave.

Since we cannot clean the filter, do you know when we should we replace it ???

THanks.

At least as it is stated in the manual (I don't remember how many hours, maybe 500h or 1000h, but I'll probably replace it sooner, as it is relatively cheap). My unit came with a replacement filter included, btw. I assume yours is the same.

Dave.

So, what is the optimal height to mount a 92in screen? No risers, no special setup, just a projector in the back, a screen in the front, and couches in the middle.

So, what is the optimal height to mount a 92in screen? No risers, no special setup, just a projector in the back, a screen in the front, and couches in the middle.
I find it most comfortable to have eye level somewhere in the lower half of the screen - probably 20% to 35% up from the bottom. With that, there is very little if any lowering of one's head necessary and having much of the picture above eye level gives a sort larger-than-life sensation.

Just my $.02.

Keep in mind the best placement for your center channel speaker if you have one or think you might want one.

I need to know if the 51a has a threaded section at the lens where a filter or, in my case, an IMX lens could be attached.

Threads or no threads?

TIA!

No Threads. Just concentric circles for looks.

A 72mm filter outside diameter is just about the same size at the 51A/51 lens outside diameter, which allows the filter to be taped into place if you point the filter threads OUT.

A 71mm filter would let you place the filter threads just inside the 51A/51 lens last ring, and then tape it into place. This might a bit more secure than the tape only method.

No Threads. Just concentric circles for looks.

A 72mm filter outside diameter is just about the same size at the 51A/51 lens outside diameter, which allows the filter to be taped into place if you point the filter threads OUT.

A 71mm filter would let you place the filter threads just inside the 51A/51 lens last ring, and then tape it into place. This might a bit more secure than the tape only method.
Thanks. I'm afraid the tape method will not be sufficient for an IMX lens. Darnit.

There is an IMX lens size that fits the 51 which I assume would be the same for the 51A. It is secured to the outside of the lens housing with small hex nuts supplied.

There is an IMX lens size that fits the 51 which I assume would be the same for the 51A. It is secured to the outside of the lens housing with small hex nuts supplied.
Really? You've got one attached by that method and it's secure? Do you have any pics you could send? I've just emailed Shawn Kelly to ask about a universal mount, but I have alignment concerns about that. What you describe would no doubt be better.

Sure...PM me your email address and I'll send a couple of pics. It may be the universal mount I have,,,not sure, but, it is very secure, not too difficult to align. It's like it becomes part of the projector. Ask Shawn what fits your projector and go with that.

IMX934-VTS This is the one made for the HS51

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4891007#post4891007

Go to this thread and scroll to the bottom and Dave Giles posts pics here and on the next page.

IMX934-VTS This is the one made for the HS51
I just PM'd you, but then read your follow-up posts and no longer need any more convincing. Thank you so much for doing legwork on this for me! I owe you one.

[B]Hi All,

I am new here...:)

I just bought the Sony HS60 and viewing it on a White Screen of size 92" from a distance of about 12 to 13 ft.

I have been using the projector for about a week and found the picture to be grainy...!!! Especially as I was watching the DVD of War of the Worlds. Also, the picture quality from the Dish ( regular not HD) is not good. I have attached the DVD player through component cables and dish through Svideo.

I have not done a detailed calibration yet....could it be a problem of that ( in some DVDs the blacks are good but they hide the detail...specially referring to the opening scene of Mr and Mrs. Smith)....Am i doing something fundaamentally wrong...? Do you think i should take the Projector to a Sony repair shop for a checkup..:)...?

All replies are greatly appreciated. Thanks...

[B]Hi All,

I am new here...:)

I just bought the Sony HS60 and viewing it on a White Screen of size 92" from a distance of about 12 to 13 ft.

I have been using the projector for about a week and found the picture to be grainy...!!! Especially as I was watching the DVD of War of the Worlds. Also, the picture quality from the Dish ( regular not HD) is not good. I have attached the DVD player through component cables and dish through Svideo.

I have not done a detailed calibration yet....could it be a problem of that ( in some DVDs the blacks are good but they hide the detail...specially referring to the opening scene of Mr and Mrs. Smith)....Am i doing something fundaamentally wrong...? Do you think i should take the Projector to a Sony repair shop for a checkup..:)...?
1. Use a calibration DVD before making any judgements about picture quality.

2. War of the Worlds is purposely "grainy."

And . . welcome!!!

Thank you so much for your reply....and the welcome :)

Short of professional calibration...which is the best option...I have heard about Avia

AVIA and Digital Video Essentials (DVE) are both good. I have both but prefer using AVIA.

If you are ever ready to explore more advanced grayscale/white balance calibrations within the service menu RGB gain/bias controls, there are numerous posts in this thread and the 60/51A tweak thread.

Good luck with your projector.

And I'm still using Video Essentials. Any will handle the basics and, in my opinion (IMO), yield 95% of the potential performance available from your projector.

And I'm still using Video Essentials. Any will handle the basics and, in my opinion (IMO), yield 95% of the potential performance available from your projector.

Yes 95% of standard performance criteria, however, not 95% of linear grayscale performance. The difference between pre & post calibration grayscale tracking on the 51/50 & 51A/60 is dramatic.

A good grayscale calibration is probably the best after market invest someone should consider for their Sony LCD.

Yes 95% of standard performance criteria, however, not 95% of linear grayscale performance. The difference between pre & post calibration grayscale tracking on the 51/50 & 51A/60 is dramatic.

A good grayscale calibration is probably the best after market invest someone should consider for their Sony LCD.


can this be done by eye or do you have to get test gear?.....cheers ken

Yes 95% of standard performance criteria, however, not 95% of linear grayscale performance. The difference between pre & post calibration grayscale tracking on the 51/50 & 51A/60 is dramatic.

A good grayscale calibration is probably the best after market invest someone should consider for their Sony LCD.
But, of course. But first things first.

One thing that sure would go a long way to educating people on these advanced calibrations and convince them they're worth it would be A/B pictures. People need visual evidence to see what their money is going to buy them. Personally, from being on this forum, I accept on faith/trust that it's "better" to have an ISF calibration, but that's a leap that not everyone is willing to make.

Hello together,


We just released the english version of our 40+ pages HS60-review:

www.cine4home.com


Best regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

Hello together,


We just released the english version of our 40+ pages HS60-review:

www.cine4home.com


Best regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home
Danka!

Hello together,


We just released the english version of our 40+ pages HS60-review:

www.cine4home.com


Best regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

Yes, Thanks for the translated version. It was a great read.

Personally, from being on this forum, I accept on faith/trust that it's "better" to have an ISF calibration, but that's a leap that not everyone is willing to make.

A couple of things to keep in mind...

I have yet to hear anyone who has calibrated the 51A/60 say it was a wasted effort. On the 51/50, the calibration was a little tricky and tougher to dial in, where as the 51A is a much more cooperative beast.

Poor grayscale tracking is not something that can be seen in all movies. I find a movie like Sin City, with it's broad range of artfull B&W scenes, shows color temp variations more dramatically. Strictly B&W movies will also help show grayscale tracking errors as a scene's average luminance value changes. While the 51 was better after calibration, the 51A is much better after calibration because the inherent grayscale tracking is even better on the new design. Still not as good as a DLP, but getting better. I'd say the remaining issues are with grayscale uniformity within the screen, and these issues are not easily tweaked.

In the right light controlled HT, the use of a FL-Day filter with calibration, brings out even more on/off contrast. I say right light controlled HT, because the FL-Day filter makes the brightest whites darker, and the darkest blacks even darker. Not everyone is willing to give up some lumens for more ON/OFF contrast, but the FL-Day with a High Power screen is a great combination.

I agree some folks will not appreciate the added attention and potential cost. Those that can be persuaded should have faith in the concensus I think exists among those of us who have gone through the motions.

Have my 51A, sitting in the basement. Ceiling mount is up, its an omnimount PMD2, and it does perfectly fit the projector. For future reference, what is the service menu code?

Nevermind, found the codes... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4862442&&#post4862442

A couple of things to keep in mind...

I have yet to hear anyone who has calibrated the 51A/60 say it was a wasted effort. On the 51/50, the calibration was a little tricky and tougher to dial in, where as the 51A is a much more cooperative beast.

Poor grayscale tracking is not something that can be seen in all movies. I find a movie like Sin City, with it's broad range of artfull B&W scenes, shows color temp variations more dramatically. Strictly B&W movies will also help show grayscale tracking errors as a scene's average luminance value changes. While the 51 was better after calibration, the 51A is much better after calibration because the inherent grayscale tracking is even better on the new design. Still not as good as a DLP, but getting better. I'd say the remaining issues are with grayscale uniformity within the screen, and these issues are not easily tweaked.

I agree some folks will not appreciate the added attention and potential cost. Those that can be persuaded should have faith in the concensus I think exists among those of us who have gone through the motions.
Sure, everyone who's had it done thinks it's worthwhile. The issue is convincing more people it's worthwhile before they plunk down their money. And that's where ISF could do better - marketing. FIND those movies where still shots show the difference. Many people, understandably, will not pay for a difference that that they cannot see.

Sure, everyone who's had it done thinks it's worthwhile. The issue is convincing more people it's worthwhile before they plunk down their money. And that's where ISF could do better - marketing. FIND those movies where still shots show the difference. Many prople, understandably, will not pay for a difference that that they cannot see.

You might consider starting a thread over in the Display Calibration forum. Perhaps there is one of the many calibrators who might be able to provide some comparison images you suggest.

Personally, I have not taken any photos.

You might consider starting a thread over in the Display Calibration forum. Perhaps there is one of the many calibrators who might be able to provide some comparison images you suggest.

Personally, I have not taken any photos.
I'm a believer. 'Twas merely a critique of the marketing ISF does (or doesn't do).

Anyone have any HS51A Image Director 2 idt files for correctly setting gamma on the projector.
(If you dont know what I am talking about, then your answer is no)

Anyone have any HS51A Image Director 2 idt files for correctly setting gamma on the projector.
(If you dont know what I am talking about, then your answer is no)

I have not gotten that far, but... I too would be interested if anyone saves and can post their Image Director Gamma changes. (ie... .idt file)

May I say, Gamma 2 is so far the best of the factory gamma options. It could be tweaked for a little better lowend performance and perhaps the very top end might also benefit from a slight reduction to eliminate any potential brightness compression from luminance/gamma compression in the 95-100 IRE range.

Hello all,

Allan :)

http://ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/1105sony/index5.html

While my interest is primarily SXRD, which I own, I am considering purchasing this projector, too. So, my question is this: What exactly is the difference between the HS projector's dynamic iris, and the SXRD's advanced iris? Based on the above link it appears that the dynamic iris actually effects black level while the advanced iris only does the same thing for white. Is this correct?

Thanks,

Jim

I don't know anything about the IRIS in the RPTV you reference, but I can comment on the 51A.

The dynamic IRIS works thru the complete luminance range. On the dark end, the IRIS closes down to provide darker blacks. On the bright end, the IRIS open to provide brighter whites. The IRIS then tracks accordingly between the two extremes. There is some level of control on the way the IRIS tracks between the two extremes, via the adjustment of some service menu controls.

Perhaps the IRIS on the RPTV is static, that is you can set it and it remains fixed.

I'm not clear on why the black level performance did not change on the RPTV with the various IRIS settings, as usually both the upper and lower luminance values will change depending on the IRIS condition. There must be something else at work keeping the black levels uniform while the whites levels vari.

The Sony RubySXRD projector implements a derivative of the 51A dynamic IRIS, which acts like the 51A rather than the RPTV.

Hello all,

Since it's mentioned in the manual, did any of you managed to get the 1080/24fps feature to work ?
If yes, how did you do ? because I'm linked to a HTPC through DVI/HDMI Wire and the only refresh rates I'm able to get is 50Hz and 60Hz.

Thanks in advance for your help ;)

Hello all,

Since it's mentioned in the manual, did any of you managed to get the 1080/24fps feature to work ?
If yes, how did you do ? because I'm linked to a HTPC through DVI/HDMI Wire and the only refresh rates I'm able to get is 50Hz and 60Hz.

Thanks in advance for your help ;)
Take a look at this thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-491899.html

Take a look at this thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-491899.html

thanks for the link ! interesting. but they all talk about CRT projectors.
any idea of how to use it with the VPL-HS60 ?
unless it's only through the VGA input (wich doesn't make a lot of sense considering movie industry is going to digital signal - ie HDMI/DVI with HDCP).

thx

thanks for the link ! interesting. but they all talk about CRT projectors.
any idea of how to use it with the VPL-HS60 ?
unless it's only through the VGA input (wich doesn't make a lot of sense considering movie industry is going to digital signal - ie HDMI/DVI with HDCP).

thx
Its unlikely most players will even be able to output that type of signal, so a computer input is actually quite logical.

Hello all,

Since it's mentioned in the manual, did any of you managed to get the 1080/24fps feature to work ?
If yes, how did you do ? because I'm linked to a HTPC through DVI/HDMI Wire and the only refresh rates I'm able to get is 50Hz and 60Hz.

Thanks in advance for your help ;)

What programs are you running on your HTPC.

I'm using Zoomplayer Pro front end with either Dscaler 5 or Windvd 5 with FFdshow and Reclock.
And using a Nvidia 6600gt video card,running 1080i at 50hz. DVI to HDMI to my HS60
I also have a NEC CRT PJ,which is why I originally started to run REclock.

99% of my DVD's are R4 PAL so I have to run at 50HZ,BUT I can change the Frame rates in Reclock on the fly for those few discs that have incorrect badging on them-[IE:Matrix R4].

If you haven't tried this program before I suggest you make a Restore point before downloading,it's a pretty simple program to understand once you play around with it and understand what it does.

You can download it from here.
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/ReClock_DirectShow_Filter.htm

I noticed in the >$3500 projector section that the Ruby can be adjusted to increase the lamp output. Is there a similar adjustment available for the HS-60? If so does this increase the possibility of seeing the SDE?

I noticed in the >$3500 projector section that the Ruby can be adjusted to increase the lamp output. Is there a similar adjustment available for the HS-60? If so does this increase the possibility of seeing the SDE?

Increase lamp output? NO. Lamp output is not being increased on the Ruby either.

Increase scene brightness on scenes below 100% video levels? Yes, because the iris is opened fully at lower luminance values.

Does SDE increase with the iris tweak? SDE is most apparent on bright scenes, so while the adjustment does not change the projector's pixel structure, the observation of SDE may be increased on some scenes. Personally, I have not noticed any additional SDE as I control my viewing distance to minimize SDE even on the brightest scenes.

Increase lamp output? NO. Lamp output is not being increased on the Ruby either.

Increase scene brightness on scenes below 100% video levels? Yes, because the iris is opened fully at lower luminance values.

Does SDE increase with the iris tweak? SDE is most apparent on bright scenes, so while the adjustment does not change the projector's pixel structure, the observation of SDE may be increased on some scenes. Personally, I have not noticed any additional SDE as I control my viewing distance to minimize SDE even on the brightest scenes.

Thanks, Bytehoven:

I probably misphrased my question since I didn't understand how the process was accomplished to increase the brightness of the image on the Ruby. So, let me rephrase: how does one tweak the iris in the HS-60 to increase the brightness?

Thanks, Bytehoven:

I probably misphrased my question since I didn't understand how the process was accomplished to increase the brightness of the image on the Ruby. So, let me rephrase: how does one tweak the iris in the HS-60 to increase the brightness?

You need to enter the Factory Menu. Then go to the OTHER sub menu.

Then look for the lines that read:

IRIS OPEN REG = 40 (change to 0)
IRIS CLOSE REG = 222 (I changed mine to 225 to eliminate bright corners on darkest black fields)

Lowering the IRIS CLOSE REG adjustment below the factory setting will also increase the brightness of brighter scenes, but the darkest black levels will also be increased.

Lowering the IRIS OPEN REG is the best way to achieve the Alan Ruby Light Canon effect.

You need to enter the Factory Menu. Then go to the OTHER sub menu.

Then look for the lines that read:

IRIS OPEN REG = 40 (change to 0)
IRIS CLOSE REG = 222 (I changed mine to 225 to eliminate bright corners on darkest black fields)

Lowering the IRIS CLOSE REG adjustment below the factory setting will also increase the brightness of brighter scenes, but the darkest black levels will also be increased.

Lowering the IRIS OPEN REG is the best way to achieve the Alan Ruby Light Canon effect.


Thanks!

Thanks Byte,

Can you tell me one more time how to get to the Factory n Sub Menu. Do we need to re-calibrate the picture again after changing the figure on 'IRIS Open Reg'. Thanks.

Also, do all HS60 units have the same initial factory settings ?

Alex


You need to enter the Factory Menu. Then go to the OTHER sub menu.

Then look for the lines that read:

IRIS OPEN REG = 40 (change to 0)
IRIS CLOSE REG = 222 (I changed mine to 225 to eliminate bright corners on darkest black fields)

Lowering the IRIS CLOSE REG adjustment below the factory setting will also increase the brightness of brighter scenes, but the darkest black levels will also be increased.

Lowering the IRIS OPEN REG is the best way to achieve the Alan Ruby Light Canon effect.

Thanks Byte,

Can you tell me one more time how to get to the Factory n Sub Menu. Do we need to re-calibrate the picture again after changing the figure on 'IRIS Open Reg'. Thanks.

Also, do all HS60 units have the same initial factory settings ?

Alex

My grayscale tracking did not change with the Iris changes. Factory settings do appear to vari from 51A to another, just as they did with the 51.

The service mode is accessed by pressing on the remote (enter) (enter) (UP arrow) (DOWN arrow) (enter), then (UP arrow) when it asks "do you want to enter the service mode?"

The factory mode is accessed by pressing on the remote (enter) (enter) (LEFT arrow) (enter), then (UP arrow) when it asks "do you want to enter the factory mode?"

Any additional menus usually pop up under the main INFORMATION menu.


***WARNING***

It is possible to damage your display if you change some factory parameters. Stay way from parameter controls you don't understand, and others that you do, like Fan Temperature Threshold.

You may void your warranty.

When you 1st access the service or factory modes, take the time to write down all of the settings, just incase you get confused and unintentionally change a setting.

In many cases, of the hundred plus service/factory parameters, there are very few worth adjusting. You may find most of the parameters which benefit the calibration process are located in the service mode, so you can avoid the factory mode all together and the associated risk.

Enjoy your display and be careful if you decided to access the service/factory modes.

Hi Byte,

Thanks for the info n my orignial Iris setting is Open 41 n Close 225. After I change the Open to 0, it did make a lot of difference on the picture brightness on those 'daylight indoor scene'. It seems the Auto Iris closed a bit too early for those scenes on the factory setting, n made the picture look kind of dim. No wonder I keep asking the question why Sony, such a big company, brought out an expensive(compared to those D5 units) projector n did not have enough brightness when the bulb is still new at 250 hours.

I have to thank Byte here again for trying out all corners for us. If you have more findings in improving the picture quality of this unit, please share it with us. No wonder people keep saying 'Its all in the calibration'.

:) :) :)



My grayscale tracking did not change with the Iris changes. Factory settings do appear to vari from 51A to another, just as they did with the 51.

The service mode is accessed by pressing on the remote (enter) (enter) (UP arrow) (DOWN arrow) (enter), then (UP arrow) when it asks "do you want to enter the service mode?"

The factory mode is accessed by pressing on the remote (enter) (enter) (LEFT arrow) (enter), then (UP arrow) when it asks "do you want to enter the factory mode?"

Any additional menus usually pop up under the main INFORMATION menu.


***WARNING***

It is possible to damage your display if you change some factory parameters. Stay way from parameter controls you don't understand, and others that you do, like Fan Temperature Threshold.

You may void your warranty.

When you 1st access the service or factory modes, take the time to write down all of the settings, just incase you get confused and unintentionally change a setting.

In many cases, of the hundred plus service/factory parameters, there are very few worth adjusting. You may find most of the parameters which benefit the calibration process are located in the service mode, so you can avoid the factory mode all together and the associated risk.

Enjoy your display and be careful if you decided to access the service/factory modes.

Hi Byte,

As I turn on my unit again tonight, the Iris Open setting at 0 is gone n went back to the original factory setting. Is there anyway I can set it at 0 from now on ? Thanks.

On the other thread, somebody did suggest setting both Open n Close Iris at 100. What do you think ? Will that just defeat the meaning of Auto Iris ?

You must chose save in the service menue bevor you power of the pj!

Thanks. I don't think there is a 'save' button on the remote nor on the menu.

Thanks. I don't think there is a 'save' button on the remote nor on the menu.
After you change the values in the options menu, back out into the factory menu, there should be a “SAVE TO MEMORY” button at the bottom of the page.

Thanks. I am out of town rightnow. Will look for that when I return home next week.

Any HS60 owner here experience dust spot inside the lens ? If yes, how to clean it. Do I have to call service people to come to my house to blow it ?

Thanks.

Hello HS60 owners, i have a unit home for test and i am wondering some things.

I use Colorfacts and have a "perfect" calibration (dE 0-3 20-100IRE) however, when i check with greyscale windows there is a quite large surplus of red, which also is visible in film material.

It is of course the iris-gamma ajustments that cause this behavior.

A greyscale window for IRE below 40 is more representative for where the iris is positioned during dark scenes as the APL of greyscale windows is lower then fields.

However if you correct and calibrate using windows for 20-40IRE then the rest is messed up i.e. 40-100 with fields. The surplus of red using widows is so large that correcting it to dE 0-3 gives high dE on the rest, and i am not willing to compromise that much as 40-100 is more important as deviations in the greyscale will be more visible.

I have measured where the iris kicks in by comparing lightoutput between on and off, and it starts to cut light around and below 40IRE, so below 40IRE checking with windows is a good idea.

How do you guys do this compromise, as it is now i have abandoned the windows and just calibrated using fields and have a good calibration 20-100IRE.

Now the large surplus of red on the windows is not really representative for real scenes as there usually is no such a large bright object so that much gamma compensation is usually not used, so in real film material the red is not as obvious as the meter says when you measure the windows, but it is still there

So it is not a big deal and i am quite happy with the field calibration, but perhaps you guys have some tips.

I also have the Epson TW600 at home, and on that there is almost no diffrence with windows or fields, showing the the iris on the HS60 is do alot of work, so the TW600 dont have these iris-gamma artifacts but on the other hand the percived blacklevel and contrast on the HS60 is much greater, even thoe both measure around 5000:1 @ D65.

I measured the HS60 to 5800:1 @ D65

I will try the open close reg stuff, a little more light is never wrong :)

I also calibrated with full fields. Using windows does cause the video processing to become involved. Such has also been the observation on the Sony Ruby.

It seems using full fields is the best way to get to a best overall calibration.

Maybe you could post some of your calibration setting differences between your window and full field calibrations?

Hi Byte,

I managed to get a look at one of these (HS60 here in the UK), and I can see why you like it so much! It's the first LCD I've seen with DLP type blacks and it never exhibited LCD greyness in any of the content we watched on it. I measured an out of the box 8500:1 and a mediocre D65 calibration at 6500:1. Black level is impressive.

My grayscale tracking did not change with the Iris changes.

Now that's where I had some trouble - I had my colorimiter taking continuous readings, and used a 70IRE full field window and noted the RGB tracking. I then displayed a 70IRE windowed pattern and the RGB balance was different. The iris is clearly doing something with the color balance. I tried to get a good greyscale using windowed patterns (I felt they represented video content better than full fields) but it was quite tricky, with 30IRE and lower showing green, and the dE was at best 5 to 10 elsewhere. I found displaying the 11 bar grey ramps from Avia allowed me to tweak out the green tints in the lower IREs and also see what was heppening with the rest of the greyscale as I adjusted things. I would also place the colorimiter so that it was just reading the bar I wanted to measure and this seemed to help, but in the short time I had the pj with me, I wasn't able to dial in a flat D65 with the auto iris. Any tips?

By far the best LCD I've seen, and through much of the content I saw I'm convinced most people wouldn't be able to distinguish it from a DLP. Longer viewing may give me a different opinion, but after recently seeing a Z4, I can say that Sony has managed to produce a very impressive machine that is noticably better than other LCDs. I occasionally saw the iris working but it wasn't a major distraction btw...


Thanks

Gary.

I also calibrated with full fields. Using windows does cause the video processing to become involved. Such has also been the observation on the Sony Ruby.

It seems using full fields is the best way to get to a best overall calibration.

Maybe you could post some of your calibration setting differences between your window and full field calibrations?

I have to test some more, but for example if the dE on 30IRE is calibrated to 2 then the same windows is dE 13-15, quite a large difference and so large that if you correct it the rest becomes unacceptable, i can not accept dE above 3 on 40-90IRE.

But as you say the traditional field calibration seems to be the best choice, as i said the red surplus shown in the windows is a little misleading as not so much processing is used during normal dark scenes with small bright objects. So it really is no problem but good to hear that more of you HS60 owners choose the fields.

Yes the HS60 is LCD king, and also performs better then many DLP in its price range, it is a marvel, the blacks destroy most PJ and the blacklevel is better the many DC3 DLP. However the ICR is noticable higher on the DC3 DLP:s.

The HS60 is superior as long as there isn't to much and large bright objects in the darks scenes, if these objects are present then the ICR suffers.

I to can notice the iris working (IDE) but it is not distracting.

Hi Byte,

I managed to get a look at one of these (HS60 here in the UK), and I can see why you like it so much! It's the first LCD I've seen with DLP type blacks and it never exhibited LCD greyness in any of the content we watched on it. I measured an out of the box 8500:1 and a mediocre D65 calibration at 6500:1. Black level is impressive.



Now that's where I had some trouble - I had my colorimiter taking continuous readings, and used a 70IRE full field window and noted the RGB tracking. I then displayed a 70IRE windowed pattern and the RGB balance was different. The iris is clearly doing something with the color balance. I tried to get a good greyscale using windowed patterns (I felt they represented video content better than full fields) but it was quite tricky, with 30IRE and lower showing green, and the dE was at best 5 to 10 elsewhere. I found displaying the 11 bar grey ramps from Avia allowed me to tweak out the green tints in the lower IREs and also see what was heppening with the rest of the greyscale as I adjusted things. I would also place the colorimiter so that it was just reading the bar I wanted to measure and this seemed to help, but in the short time I had the pj with me, I wasn't able to dial in a flat D65 with the auto iris. Any tips?

By far the best LCD I've seen, and through much of the content I saw I'm convinced most people wouldn't be able to distinguish it from a DLP. Longer viewing may give me a different opinion, but after recently seeing a Z4, I can say that Sony has managed to produce a very impressive machine that is noticably better than other LCDs. I occasionally saw the iris working but it wasn't a major distraction btw...


Thanks

Gary.

You should not use windows for the entire greyscale, as the iris is open above 50 with no/very little processing.

The difference you see when you switch from 70IRE field to 70IRE window is not representative for movies, because at 70IRE the iris will be fully open thus making fields the best choice.

The large black area of windows lower the APL so even at 70IRE window the iris thinks it is a dark scene with a large bright object, it will then open it self a little and also apply some processing. However at 30IRE window the iris thinks it is a dark scene with a large but quite dim object, then it goes nuts applying much processing giving the strange readings.

There are few scenes represented by a window of 50-100IRE as so large bright objects are rare in dark scenes. So above 40IRE the fields should be used, and in theory the windows should be used below 40, but as the HS60 uses so much processing the compromise cannot be used, at least not on the unit i have at home.

The auto-iris PJ should be calibrated using these steps.

1. Calibrate normal with fields

2. Check windows below 40IRE

3. If there is a deviation try to correct by using the windows.

4. If you see that the rest of the greyscale using fields is messed up try to compromise but you MUST prioritize 40-90IRE using the fields.

This works perfectly on the TW600 as it does not apply that much processing but on the HS60 the rest of the greyscale is compromised so i choose to skip the windows.

Fantastic, thanks. :)

Any ideas on how the Sony panels/polarisers compare to other LCDs? The longevity of the panels and how they degrade over time is an issue with some older LCDs, but I wonder if there is any data on this for the Sony?

Until I saw the HS60 I was firmly in the DLP camp, but now I think I'm being drawn to the dark side, lol. :)

Gary.

Any ideas on how the Sony panels/polarisers compare to other LCDs? The longevity of the panels and how they degrade over time is an issue with some older LCDs, but I wonder if there is any data on this for the Sony?

I have no idea, but I hope they last just long enough for a real nice 1080p 3 panel DLP or LCos to hit the $3000 price mark. :)

When I had some color uniformity problems on my 1 year old HS-51, Sony installed a new prism block. I was never given an explanation of what went wrong on my 51. It looked like one of the panels had changed, and because it wasn't gradual, I figure it was an isolated incident rather than a normal end of life issue with the LCD system.

I expect to have the 51A for 2+ years, unless change comes about a bit quicker than we all expect.

It may be true that LCD panels degrade more over time then some other technologies, i think the whole thing about degrading LCD panels really got started when TI did some kind of study.

How much weight you should put on a study made by TI about LCD panels i leave to you.

So the degrading panel issue should NOT i repeat NOT be a factor when buying a PJ, they will perform long after you have bought a new PJ or until they are not worth anything.

I have no idea, but I hope they last just long enough for a real nice 1080p 3 panel DLP or LCos to hit the $3000 price mark. :)



After seeing the Sony, I would have thought 1080 LCD would be an option too wouldn't it? :)

Zoom,

I only asked because I've seen a few pictures of panel damged LCDs in the past from owners asking about repair costs, so it used to be a problem at one time (I agree that a TI funded report may have a bias). Normally I would agree that after a couple of years the old upgrade bug would hit, but now that pjs are getting so good, there seems less reason to upgrade. People with the likes of a Sony G90 CRT upgrade their scalers every couple of years, and then maybe their source equipment (or their audio) so I wonder if us fixed pixel owners will resort to finding other things to upgrade when we get a pj that is good enough to keep? :p

Gary

After seeing the Sony, I would have thought 1080 LCD would be an option too wouldn't it? :)

Zoom,

I only asked because I've seen a few pictures of panel damged LCDs in the past from owners asking about repair costs, so it used to be a problem at one time (I agree that a TI funded report may have a bias). Normally I would agree that after a couple of years the old upgrade bug would hit, but now that pjs are getting so good, there seems less reason to upgrade. People with the likes of a Sony G90 CRT upgrade their scalers every couple of years, and then maybe their source equipment (or their audio) so I wonder if us fixed pixel owners will resort to finding other things to upgrade when we get a pj that is good enough to keep? :p

Gary

You are right Gary, perhaps when the technologies settle in, you can be happy with a PJ for a longer period of time.

I first bought the Z3, sold it after 60h on the lamp, now i have the TW600 and planning on exchanging it after 50h on the lamp :p

I write reviews so i get PJ to test which further gives upgrading consideration, i now have the HS60 for review and it is great, as close as you come to DLP with all the benefits of LCD. It really impressed me, the blacks and ICR in dark scenes are so good you must check the unit to se if the "3 LCD" logo is really there :)

I am deciding between the H79 and the HS60.

The one thing i can say is that LCD is on the forefront, and DLP has to watch its back.

I know 1080 is a big step up from 720 (another million pixels), but I'm wodering how much 1080 LCD will cost when it gets here with the mainstream manufacturers like Sony, Sanyo and Panasonic. The Fujitsu is around £17000 here in the UK and far too expensive IMHO, but hopefully that isn't indicative of the panel costs.

I didn't measure the ANSI CR on the HS60, but will if I get a chance since I'm curious to know as well. Anything over 200:1 is usually enough to be better than the average room will allow.

Gary

Anybody tried clamping down the HS 60's Iris to MIN and then using FFDSHOW levels settings to auto ajust?

Can only work if you are running these programs
Very interesting.
TRY IT.

Got my 51a yesterday. Out of the box was only somewhat impressed - colors were off. Spent about 5 minutes and got it way better but not great - but the family was ready to watch a movie - so we put Hoodwinked in the HTPC and had our first movie with LCD.

Colors were rich and saturated - but the biggest surprise - was the great BLACK level. I have been using an HP XB31 (DLP) since 2003 and just had upgrade fever so after a month or two of looking at the current best of under 5K projectors - I took the plunge for the HS51A. I had never seen a believable black on a projector before this.

The short list started with the Canon sx50 / sx60, Samsung 710ae and the Sony. I had just about bought the sx50 but its the 60 that fixes the weaknesses of the 50 (sx60 has HDMI, higher contrast Cinema mode, and lack of tearing at full res) - but the 60 will cost significantly more than the Samsung or Sony Had seen an LCOS projector at a BOSE store and really liked it but did notice a lack of true blacks. The Sammy has been getting a great following and seems to be the jewel of dlp's under 5K. I was ready to get the Sammy and then comes a couple of posts by ZoomAir comparing the Sony to a DLP as I really like the richness of a DLP image. Other posts by GaryLightfoot and Bytehoven were also very influential - so the Sony won and its a great Bang for the Buck now that its street price has fallen.

Today I went into the Service mode and entered the Calibration settings posted by Bytehoven - and WOW - the colors look natural - the whites are white, fleshtones look good - and the Sony does look like a good to great DLP especially on the darker scenes. Its when the scenes get a bit darker that the richness of the image shows the most. The image is smooth, has a lot of depth - and does look like a dlp much of the time. Watched a bit of Ladder 49, The Last Samuri, and much of Troy and was very impressed.

The biggest surprise is that my XB31 could not show black anything - it was always a dark grey - and your eye becomes satisfied with a dark grey as black. Well the Sony does a great job on colors and things that are black look black. The blacks also have no noise or motion and the graduation out of black is very smooth.

RBE was never a problem for me but I did feel a bit of eyestrain with the Xb31. The Sony has NO eyestrain - and I am surprised at how easy and comfortable it is to watch an LCD projector. Colors are accurate and saturated, blacks are great, it is extremely quiet, throws very little heat (using on low lamp mode). I am currently using a 100" piece of foam board for a screen - so I do not have the brightest image - but after playing a bit with the gamma - the brightness is good but not great. To get the most out of this projector will take a high gain screen so I'm thinking of a Silverstar as my first choice. As far as sharpness goes the sony is sharp - mine is showing no vb and only a very very slight mis-convergence - (undetectable when viewing). Screen door is much less than my XB31 so it is not an issue at all - in fact a big improverment (HP was 1024x768).

I am impressed with this projector and think its a great value but it did have a shadow issue and it may be because of my screen - the shadow detail took a bit of tweaking - but in the end the Gamma tuning software on my computer made it very easy to lift only the very low levels a bit higher which opened up the shadows but did not ruin the image richness - the Sony can connect by USB to your computer with this tuning software.

Nice review. :)

I hope to post some follow up calibration info after I burn in some more hours on my projector. I expect some color shift, but have no idea how much.

Enjoy the 51A/60. I still think it's a great projector to hold us over until a nice/cheap 3 panel 1080p comes down the road.

Regarding a screen... the High Power is excellent for solo viewing of a couple of people viewing from the sweet spot. In this case, the gain on whites is awesome with just a slight kick on the low end. I'm still using a ultra flat white paint wall screen, behind the the High Power pulldown, for the family viewing with a full house. I would love to hear how the Silverstar works out, as that seems like a middle of the road compromise between the two extremes.

Good luck with your new toy.

PS.. Welcome to the AVS forums. :D

What programs are you running on your HTPC.

I'm using Zoomplayer Pro front end with either Dscaler 5 or Windvd 5 with FFdshow and Reclock.
And using a Nvidia 6600gt video card,running 1080i at 50hz. DVI to HDMI to my HS60
I also have a NEC CRT PJ,which is why I originally started to run REclock.

99% of my DVD's are R4 PAL so I have to run at 50HZ,BUT I can change the Frame rates in Reclock on the fly for those few discs that have incorrect badging on them-[IE:Matrix R4].

If you haven't tried this program before I suggest you make a Restore point before downloading,it's a pretty simple program to understand once you play around with it and understand what it does.

You can download it from here.
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/ReClock_DirectShow_Filter.htm

thanks for the info, i'm using zoomplayer with nvidia decoders, reclock and ac3filter for wm9 720p content.

I bought a 7800GT Nvidia card and I managed to get the 1080/24psf feature to work on both VGA and HDMI inputs :) and the HS60 accepts it at 48hz even on HDMI !
but there is a big overscan, fixable by playing with the porchs i guess (through nvidia drivers or powerstrip).
if anyone is using either 1080/24psf with a nvidia card on the hs60 or 50hz through VGA I'd appreciate the porchs settings because i'm having a very weird picture at 50hz through VGA ...

I am in process of connecting a Sony VAIO RC110G(Windows media center) with a DVI-D interface to VPLS-H51 projector with HDMI interface. I brought a 30 feet cable HDMI to DIVI. This cabling will be permanent inside the wall cable and I want to get this right. Following are my primary goals:
- Watch DVD DAVIDies using DVD DAVIDver on Sony media center PC and with DIVI-HDMI output to projector.
- Watch VoD proprogrammesom internet using DIVI-HDMI output.
- Using the Dish rereceivero connect to my PC and then use TV-Tuner to watch the channels using the projector and DIVI-HDMI interface.

Any caveats and performance issues with these?
I have not seen any article on connecting a HS51 to a sony PC on DIVI-HDMI.

Hope this is the right forum as it talks about VPLS-H51 :)
Thanks in advance and appreciate all the help provided.

Hope this is the right forum as it talks about VPLS-H51 :)

Ha ha! Wouldn't the right forum for this question have been the other forum (HS50(51)) you posted the exact same question and hoped was the right one?

thanks for the info, i'm using zoomplayer with nvidia decoders, reclock and ac3filter for wm9 720p content.

I bought a 7800GT Nvidia card and I managed to get the 1080/24psf feature to work on both VGA and HDMI inputs :) and the HS60 accepts it at 48hz even on HDMI !
but there is a big overscan, fixable by playing with the porchs i guess (through nvidia drivers or powerstrip).
if anyone is using either 1080/24psf with a nvidia card on the hs60 or 50hz through VGA I'd appreciate the porchs settings because i'm having a very weird picture at 50hz through VGA ...

You need to ditch Powerstrip if using a NVidia card ,just use te NVidia cards software
Too many conflicts,NO NEED for powerstrip!












.

Say what is the difference between the HS51a and the HS60? There seems to be an indication from Sony that the HS 51a is discontinued and the HS60 replaces it? Not sure though. Thanks

I think they're the same model, except the 60 was the number given to the one sold in the UK (or maybe Europe).

Gary

I think they're the same model, except the 60 was the number given to the one sold in the UK (or maybe Europe).

Gary
Correct.

There is a new model due out later this month that is designated "HS60". It is lower priced than the HS51a. There is an indciation that the contrast ratio will not be quite 10000 to 1. In addition it will not have a network connection. I would guess Sony is trying to compete with some of the new lower priced DLPs from Sharp etc?
We also received a notice that we had received the last of the HS51s.
We will know more as Sony fills us in.Hopefully sooner than later

There is a new model due out later this month that is designated "HS60". It is lower priced than the HS51a. There is an indciation that the contrast ratio will not be quite 10000 to 1. In addition it will not have a network connection. I would guess Sony is trying to compete with some of the new lower priced DLPs from Sharp etc?
We also received a notice that we had received the last of the HS51s.
We will know more as Sony fills us in.Hopefully sooner than later
For the U.S. market? Strange that they'd have two different projectors in their product line with the same model number. The 51a and 60 are the same, but have different numbers for different markets. May I ask where you heard this?

Yes for the US market. As mentioned I suspect they are responding to market conditions.
I will post any additional info I get .

Yes for the US market. As mentioned I suspect they are responding to market conditions.
I will post any additional info I get .
That'd be great as I was seriously considering the 51a. The only thing that made me pause was reports of the lens shift/focus drifting due to bass frequencies vibrating the projector. So I'll be looking to see that addressed.

I have an aussie HS60, it doesn't have a network connection and was priced AUS $3,500 (approx $2,700 US) when new, so maybe it's the same?

I have an aussie HS60, it doesn't have a network connection and was priced AUS $3,500 (approx $2,700 US) when new, so maybe it's the same?



Yep their the same.......just the hs60 has no network connection thats all afaik...ken

Hi there,
I recently bought a hs-60,

I have noticed on some scenes, mostly light coloured sky shots light blue or white shots, there seems to be a faint array of vertical lines running through the picture that seem to be a slightly lighter colour than the surrounding picture. I'll attempt some ascii art to show you want I mean:
('s show the screen edges. |'s the vertical lines.

( | |  |    |     |   |  | | )

it's one of those things that you don't notice until someone points it out.

I just wondered if this was a defect, or if it is a setup issue?
or if anyone else has notcie these lines?

the projector is set back ~4m from the screen, and the screen is a screen technics 100", cable is a 10 metre belkin component.

The picture is also pin-cushioned a little, I haven't been right through to set it allup properly (not really knowing how) hopefully this is something wrong with my projector set-up/optimisation... otherwise it's going back tot he shop!!!

any info appreciated.

cheers,
Mitch.

Yes, you are correct. Those are VB but as compared with other LCD brand, Sony's case is the least among them. If you run those RGB color panel from calibration disc, you will see most of the VB comes from the green panel.

Yes, you are correct. Those are VB but as compared with other LCD brand, Sony's case is the least among them. If you run those RGB color panel from calibration disc, you will see most of the VB comes from the green panel.

So i'm stuck with them?
there is nothing I can do to get rid of them?

cheers,
Mitch

That's the characteristic of LCD projector n some will say if you de-focus the lens a bit, the VB will go away. However, I do not agree this move at all since it will soften up the overall picture.

That's the characteristic of LCD projector n some will say if you de-focus the lens a bit, the VB will go away. However, I do not agree this move at all since it will soften up the overall picture.
I've been on other LCD projector threads - Panny 900 maybe - where there were panel voltage (?) adjustments to reduce/remove VB.

I have not been on this formum for a while and I wanted to say thanks to the advice and this log for the 51A. I not a professional, but I have viewed many other projectors costing more than this one and I have to say that I and all of my friends are still blown away I had it for 6 months now and love it. I have it on a 92inch Elite matte white motorized screen running through a Sony 999ES componet video and HD, I can say I am very pleased with it, no issues at this time, it has always worked flawlessly and my biggest worry of Screen Door is not an issue at 12 feet from the screen in some cases I set closer and still not a major factor it is so close to smooth screen feeling like a DLP without any worries of rainbows. Darkness was also a concern, but with the light control it is not an issue as well. This is one purchase that had me worried for about a year and I am very glad I waited for the 51A vs. the 51, on the 51 I felt I did see some screen door, but not an issue here. It is still a little on pricer side vs. a lot of the new machines out there but I feel I have gotten what I paid, the colors are great and vibrant, the blacks are black, these are the things I look for after reading the many posts on this forum, but for the average Joe that comes over are blown away. All of my friends want this projector, and I have no problem recommending this to them. I would suppose there are things that could be a little better but for how much more would one have to pay to have a slight increase in picture quality, the only upgrade that I may consider in the future would be a better screen, but for now it works fine and I got it a very low cost, for me the electronic screen is still and advantage since I watch my normal TV on the same wall and it comes down over it, my system is finially complete and now I have been watching it and no regrets. Great job Sony and you guys for all your help.

Thanks for this site once again,

Good Luck,
ADCOM 565

Anyone who owns a 51A have a Da-Lite High Power screen? I'm wondering how this screen matches up with the 51A.

Anyone who owns a 51A have a Da-Lite High Power screen? I'm wondering how this screen matches up with the 51A.

I have the 51A and a 92" DaLite HP screen.

I think it is a great combination if you can position the projector properly. I have the 51A just behind and above my seated head position, which provides for maximum light reflection. As I move out the the side viewing positions, the gain drops a little.

For viewing when I have a room full of folks sitting on the floor and farther off to the sides, I use a ultra white flat painted screen behind the pulldown HP screen.

The HP will also let you consider using a Hoya FL-Day filter for a little extra contrast and slightly darker blacks.

May I just say again, the HP is a killer screen with the 51A, and also the older 51, as it really helps brighter scenes feel more authentic.

Good luck with your screen shopping and don't forget AVS when shopping.

RJ
...

I have the 51A and a 92" DaLite HP screen.

I think it is a great combination if you can position the projector properly. I have the 51A just behind and above my seated head position, which provides for maximum light reflection. As I move out the the side viewing positions, the gain drops a little.

For viewing when I have a room full of folks sitting on the floor and farther off to the sides, I use a ultra white flat painted screen behind the pulldown HP screen.

The HP will also let you consider using a Hoya FL-Day filter for a little extra contrast and slightly darker blacks.

May I just say again, the HP is a killer screen with the 51A, and also the older 51, as it really helps brighter scenes feel more authentic.

Good luck with your screen shopping and don't forget AVS when shopping.

RJ
...


Thanks, Bytehoven. BTW, can you estimate how much brighter your 51A is with the lumen tweak similar to the Ruby?

Thanks, Bytehoven. BTW, can you estimate how much brighter your 51A is with the lumen tweak similar to the Ruby?

Please explain your question. Lumen tweak?

Please explain your question. Lumen tweak?
Technically, it's an iris tweak. You're familiar with it, aren't you? Folks monkey with the service menu to open the iris more and sacrifice CR for lumens. I consider it daft myself.

Please explain your question. Lumen tweak?


I'm referring to the brightness tweak Alan Gouger posted for the Ruby which is also applicable to the 51A. I just wondered if you could quantify or "guestimate" percentage wise how much increase this tweak made.

I'm referring to the brightness tweak Alan Gouger posted for the Ruby which is also applicable to the 51A. I just wondered if you could quantify or "guestimate" percentage wise how much increase this tweak made.

Oh yes, I know what your talking about now. It's the service menu adjustments for OPEN REG and CLOSE REG.

Here is the deal. The adjustment of the OPEN REG from (40) down to (0) makes the projector brighter. Well not exactly, let me explain. This adjustment allows the IRIS to open fully at a lower average video signal luminance value. So while the brightest white levels don't get brighter, scenes with lower average luminance values of let's say 80-90%, will be projected with the IRIS wide open. This makes these scenes project more brightly than if the iris is partially closed. Understand?

It's definitely a trick worth using on the OPEN REG setting, but I leave the CLOSE REG at the factory level of (225) so I don't get "bright corners" or elevated black levels on darker scenes.

My 51 was factory programmed as (40)-(210) while the 51A was factory programmed at (40)-(225). I have heard other folks reports slightly different numbers, especially for the CLOSE REG value.

The other thing that will definitely help overall brightness, is a good grayscale calibration, where you adjust the RGB gain/bias controls so they are properly maxing out at 100% video luminance values. The various calibration tweaks I have posted for the 51A do this for my projector, and some other folks have reported they work well with their projectors.

If you want maximum brightness, calibrate well, tweak the OPEN REG to (0) and use the HP screen. It's a killer setup and bright enough for my 92" HP screen when viewed from approx 12'.

cheers

RJ
...

Oh yes, I know what your talking about now. It's the service menu adjustments for OPEN REG and CLOSE REG.

Here is the deal. The adjustment of the OPEN REG from (40) down to (0) makes the projector brighter. Well not exactly, let me explain. This adjustment allows the IRIS to open fully at a lower average video signal luminance value. So while the brightest white levels don't get brighter, scenes with lower average luminance values of let's say 80-90%, will be projected with the IRIS wide open. This makes these scenes project more brightly than if the iris is partially closed. Understand?

It's definitely a trick worth using on the OPEN REG setting, but I leave the CLOSE REG at the factory level of (225) so I don't get "bright corners" or elevated black levels on darker scenes.

My 51 was factory programmed as (40)-(210) while the 51A was factory programmed at (40)-(225). I have heard other folks reports slightly different numbers, especially for the CLOSE REG value.

The other thing that will definitely help overall brightness, is a good grayscale calibration, where you adjust the RGB gain/bias controls so they are properly maxing out at 100% video luminance values. The various calibration tweaks I have posted for the 51A do this for my projector, and some other folks have reported they work well with their projectors.

If you want maximum brightness, calibrate well, tweak the OPEN REG to (0) and use the HP screen. It's a killer setup and bright enough for my 92" HP screen when viewed from approx 12'.

cheers

RJ
...


Thanks, RJ

hi vwatch!
great review. i'm wondering *which* settings you entered? i grabbed a spreadsheet from the forums detailing a lot of calibration settings for the 51A. did you try various ones?
thanks!

Today I went into the Service mode and entered the Calibration settings posted by Bytehoven - and WOW - the colors look natural - the whites are white, fleshtones look good - and the Sony does look like a good to great DLP especially on the darker scenes. Its when the scenes get a bit darker that the richness of the image shows the most. The image is smooth, has a lot of depth - and does look like a dlp much of the time. Watched a bit of Ladder 49, The Last Samuri, and much of Troy and was very impressed.

Greetings,

I currently have the HS51. I realize that the 51 will not do 1:1 pixel mapping via HDMI.

Byte, or anyone else can you confirm that the 51A will do 1:1 PM via HDMI?? I just bought the Anthem AVM 50 which offers the Gennum VXP video processor. If the 51A in fact can do 1:1 PM via HDMI I would consider the move.

I am very satisfied with my HS51 overall.


Thanks !


Regards,

Hey Ralph

It will do 1:1 via HDMI. I verified when I had the PJ for those few short days.

Hey Ralph

It will do 1:1 via HDMI. I verified when I had the PJ for those few short days.


Greetings,

Great. Thanks Kris !

Regards,

Hi Kris,

I must have miss your review on the 51A since you did say you gonna order one when it becomes available in U.S.. Why getting rid of it so fast ???

Hi Kris,

I must have miss your review on the 51A since you did say you gonna order one when it becomes available in U.S.. Why getting rid of it so fast ???
The 51a is available in the U.S. And I'd like to see a review for comparison to the 51.

:)

Byte, can you tell me what the difference is between setting the OPEN REG to (0), CLOSE REG to (225) or setting them both to say (100)? Thanks.

Byte, can you tell me what the difference is between setting the OPEN REG to (0), CLOSE REG to (225) or setting them both to say (100)? Thanks.

These controls manipulate the way the auto iris responds to average video signal luminance levels.

Adjusting the CLOSE REG down from (225) causes the dark end of the luminance range to get brighter because the auto iris is not closing down all the way during dark scenes.

Adjusting the OPEN REG down from (40) cause the bright end of the luminance range to be reproduced with the iris open full at lower average luminance values. The result the projector appears brighter even though the brightest whites are still the same brightness.

Setting both to (100) would look like doo-doo, IMHO. :)

I recommend leaving the CLOSE REG at the factory setting and adjusting the OPEN REG down to (0).

Hi there,
I recently bought a hs-60,

I have noticed on some scenes, mostly light coloured sky shots light blue or white shots, there seems to be a faint array of vertical lines running through the picture that seem to be a slightly lighter colour than the surrounding picture. I'll attempt some ascii art to show you want I mean:
('s show the screen edges. |'s the vertical lines.

( | | | | | | | | )

it's one of those things that you don't notice until someone points it out.

I just wondered if this was a defect, or if it is a setup issue?
or if anyone else has notcie these lines?

the projector is set back ~4m from the screen, and the screen is a screen technics 100", cable is a 10 metre belkin component.

The picture is also pin-cushioned a little, I haven't been right through to set it allup properly (not really knowing how) hopefully this is something wrong with my projector set-up/optimisation... otherwise it's going back tot he shop!!!

any info appreciated.

cheers,
Mitch.

Hi,

Those vertical lines are probably VB (vertical banding), as already mentioned by others. It's one of the drawbacks of LCD technology and affects all LCD pj brands.

Although there are reports here of VB-free HS60's (probably a matter of luck?), I think most HS60's will have some degree of VB. My HS60 has some VB and I considered complaining to Sony because it seems that VB has increased somewhat (maybe it’s just my perception that has increased, I don’t know), but I didn’t because of two things:
1. I already had some issues with Sony service - they scratched my previous pj (HS50, which also had VB, btw) when it went to service - and I don’t want to go through the same thing again.
2. A friend of mine bought recently the HS60 and I went to his house to see it. It has exactly the same defects as mine: VB (his unit seemed to have more than mine and all 4 people in the room saw it easily while watching a world cup soccer game - lot's of greens (grass), where VB is more visible...) and shading problems – reddish/magenta tint on the left side and bluish / green tint on the right (especially on low IRE’s, when the iris is more closed), exactly like my unit. As such, even if Sony would exchange my unit with a new one, it would probably have the same problems - and could even be worse! I’ll stick with the HS60 (current best alternative for someone who doesn’t tolerate DLP rainbows imho) until something better and reasonably priced comes along.

Dave.

For viewing when I have a room full of folks sitting on the floor and farther off to the sides, I use a ultra white flat painted screen behind the pulldown HP screen.
...

Bytehoven,

I am interested if you really think using this ultra white flat painted screen is brighter than the HP off axis. I have an HS-51 and am considering a high power and from all the reviews and feedback most believe that even at extreme angles the worst you would get is a 1.0 gain which is all you would get from a flat white paint. I really wouldn't have any extreme viewing angles even with a room full of people. Maybe kids on the floor would be the worst..but they can live with it.

Bytehoven,

I am interested if you really think using this ultra white flat painted screen is brighter than the HP off axis. I have an HS-51 and am considering a high power and from all the reviews and feedback most believe that even at extreme angles the worst you would get is a 1.0 gain which is all you would get from a flat white paint. I really wouldn't have any extreme viewing angles even with a room full of people. Maybe kids on the floor would be the worst..but they can live with it.

I don't have the specific measurements infront of me, but the HP gain is lower than 1.0 as you move off axis far enough. If I recall correctly, if drops down to around 0.5-0.7 if you go far enough out or have the projector mounted high enough over your head.

The solution besides two screens is either a different reflective property for the screen or a more subtle maximum gain.

The Sony website says the HS-60 will be shipping in mid-July. I saw some posts above indicating that one difference is that it will not have the computer port. and the website indicates a lower MSRP Any one know if there are any other differences that would make it worth waiting over an HS-51A, since it will probably take a while after that to get into mainstream distribution?

The Sony website says the HS-60 will be shipping in mid-July. I saw some posts above indicating that one difference is that it will not have the computer port. and the website indicates a lower MSRP Any one know if there are any other differences that would make it worth waiting over an HS-51A, since it will probably take a while after that to get into mainstream distribution?
I'm a bit puzzled. I thought the 51a was the US model of the 60. Is this new 60 the same as the 60 that has been available for some time outside of the US?

If you look at the owners manual .pdf file for the VPL-HS60, it still reads HS-60 and HS-51A.

The HS-60 and 51A appear to continue to be the same projector.

Perhaps Sony has consolidated production to just the HS-60 and is making it available world wide.

I always thought is was silly to call the US model HS-51A.

If you look at the owners manual .pdf file for the VPL-HS60, it still reads HS-60 and HS-51A.

The HS-60 and 51A appear to continue to be the same projector.

Perhaps Sony has consolidated production to just the HS-60 and is making it available world wide.

I always thought is was silly to call the US model HS-51A.
I feel cheated. :rolleyes:

According to my operating instructions booklet, which is for both the HS60 and HS51A, the only apparent differences are the addition of an ethernet port and an USB port in the HS51A which allows some gamma adjustments by computer.

Has anyone paired the HS-51A with the Toshiba HD-A1? Any problems with the handshake? I presume the PQ with the Toshiba has to be quite awesome.

Hi Kris,

I must have miss your review on the 51A since you did say you gonna order one when it becomes available in U.S.. Why getting rid of it so fast ???

I wanted to do a review of the unit but the unit I bought from Sony had issues. They didn't want to help resolve the issues so I decided to get rid of the projector and move on. I have a really tight schedule and frankly I don't have the time to do runarounds to do a review. I have enough stuff to review already. I really liked the 51 though.

Hi Kris,

Does it mean you prefer the 51 over the 60 ? Just give us a short hint what went wrong with the 60 that you got. Thanks.

I just picked up an HS60 for 1750. Does this sound like a good deal to anyone?

I just picked up an HS60 for 1750. Does this sound like a good deal to anyone?


Absolutely. :D Is it brand new?

Yup, it is being delivered on the 21st.

Wherd ya get the deal from??

:)

A place called Grant's Appliances in Naperville IL. I think there's a chain of them here.

A place called Grant's Appliances in Naperville IL. I think there's a chain of them here.
Well, that answers my question about them being sold in the US. That leaves two questions.

Do we know if this is the same HS60 that had been sold worldwide?

My understanding was that the HS51a and the HS60 were identical, but one was for the US market and the other worldwide. Was I wrong, or is there some difference between the two models? (Guess that was three questions.) :)

Well, I'll let you know when I get it. At 1750 I would have picked up an HS51a if the 60 wasn't avaiable.

Well, I'll let you know when I get it. At 1750 I would have picked up an HS51a if the 60 wasn't avaiable.
At 1750, I need to rethink the new bulb for my HS20. Wonder why they've fallen so low - new model imminent?

Not really sure. I was the second person to purchase it. The store manager was the first. I am wondering if they are just trying to get thier numbers up on that model or something...

Greetings,

Best Buy had the 51a for 1999 as`well. I think this may due to the fact that the 51a is being phased out for the HS60.


Regards,

Greetings,

Best Buy had the 51a for 1999 as`well. I think this may due to the fact that the 51a is being phased out for the HS60.
More puzzlement: Aren't they the same? If not, what's the difference?

Greetings,

They are the same other than the HS-60 does not have the ethernet connection. Sony has now opted to go with one model number both here and in Europe and it will be the HS-60.

If you check Sonystyle the HS51a is no longer available/listed.

Regards,

I just purchased the 51A last week. I noticed that there is really nothing but space in between the lens assembly and the housing as the lens shift is used. Is this a bit odd to have nothing keeping anything from getting inside the case through the hole where the lens pokes out?

I've also noticed that the top, middle edge of the picture exhibits a curve downward as the lens shift is used upward to the max. Is this normal for the 51A's lens shift extremes in all directions? I didn't notice this with the Epson 550, but I don't think the 550's lens is as spherical as the 51A's bulbous lens.

Greetings,

They are the same other than the HS-60 does not have the ethernet connection. Sony has now opted to go with one model number both here and in Europe and it will be the HS-60.

If you check Sonystyle the HS51a is no longer available/listed.

Regards,
I can't find projectors at all. I clicked on projectors and got rear projectors. What am I doing wrong? (I'm sure it's something stoopid.)

I just purchased the 51A last week. I noticed that there is really nothing but space in between the lens assembly and the housing as the lens shift is used. Is this a bit odd to have nothing keeping anything from getting inside the case through the hole where the lens pokes out?

I've also noticed that the top, middle edge of the picture exhibits a curve downward as the lens shift is used upward to the max. Is this normal for the 51A's lens shift extremes in all directions? I didn't notice this with the Epson 550, but I don't think the 550's lens is as spherical as the 51A's bulbous lens.
It's best to stay away from maximum shifting for a few reasons, this being one of them.

I have a new HS-51A that I am trying out. I am bothered by a hot spot about 1 foot in diameter on an 84" diagonal Dalite Cinema Vision screen. It moves around the screen as I change my viewing position. The hot spot is noticably brighter on bright scenes, which accentuates the SDE, and is hardly visible on dark scenes (probably because the iris is shutting down). I did not have any such hot spot with my prior projector (a DLP - Toshiba MT-700, which was much brighter than the Sony), so I do not think it is the screen. Does anyone else have this or is a problem with this particular projector? If it is this projector, is it something that can be fixed in the menus or should I return it as defective?

I can't find projectors at all. I clicked on projectors and got rear projectors. What am I doing wrong? (I'm sure it's something stoopid.)

Greetings,

Go to the site and put "HS51a" in the search field at the top. It comes right up. If not then go to this link:

HS51a at Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7704674&type=product&id=1138084940709)


Regards,

Greetings,

Go to the site and put "HS51a" in the search field at the top. It comes right up. If not then go to this link:

HS51a at Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7704674&type=product&id=1138084940709)
It doesn't return any results on Sony Style and again, I can't find ANY front projectors on the Sony Style site.

it's ass-backwards, but to find the projectors on sony's site, go to Electronics -> TVs -> Projection -> 55" to 80"

The Ruby and HS60 are buried at the bottom of the page.

it's ass-backwards, but to find the projectors on sony's site, go to Electronics -> TVs -> Projection -> 55" to 80"

The Ruby and HS60 are buried at the bottom of the page.
Oh good grief, how dumb. FPTV's should have a section of their own. Thanks.

I just purchased the 51A last week. I noticed that there is really nothing but space in between the lens assembly and the housing as the lens shift is used. Is this a bit odd to have nothing keeping anything from getting inside the case through the hole where the lens pokes out?

I wrote this in an earlier post. Is this how the 51A is supposed to be. Isn't there supposed to be something surrounding the lens assembly and covering up the open space between it and the case?

I wrote this in an earlier post. Is this how the 51A is supposed to be. Isn't there supposed to be something surrounding the lens assembly and covering up the open space between it and the case?
Does your look like the pictures?

Does my HS51A look like the pictures of the HS51A? Yes. But, what I'm talking about isn't something that's very noticeable on any pictures of the HS51A. You can only really tell when the lens shift is used a lot, which causes a gap between the lens assembly "cylinder" and the black front of the projector. Does that make any sense? :o I guess I just expect something to be within and around the lens opening on the front to keep dust and crap from getting inside the case.

Does my HS51A look like the pictures of the HS51A? Yes. But, what I'm talking about isn't something that's very noticeable on any pictures of the HS51A. You can only really tell when the lens shift is used a lot, which causes a gap between the lens assembly "cylinder" and the black front of the projector. Does that make any sense? :o I guess I just expect something to be within and around the lens opening on the front to keep dust and crap from getting inside the case.
I can't see what you're seeing - I've got an HS20 - but it sounds like there needs to be a lot of space to allow for maximun lens shift in any and all directions. You could always stuff a T-shirt in the hole if it bothers you. :D

Does anyone know if an aftermarket short throw lens from Buhl (navitar) will work with an HS60? I believe they had a model that would work with the late model HS20. Just trying to get a bigger screen in a location that forces the projector somewhat closer than the limitations of the factory lens. Thanks

Does anyone know if an aftermarket short throw lens from Buhl (navitar) will work with an HS60? I believe they had a model that would work with the late model HS20. Just trying to get a bigger screen in a location that forces the projector somewhat closer than the limitations of the factory lens. Thanks

I have an answer to my own question. Buhl is now Navitar.com. They have a line called "Screenstar" which mounts in front of almost any recent front projector. They can increase the screen size for a given distance or the other way around. The quality looks good,but of course there are issues. Magnification of defects in the original lens + loss of light output. CHief makes a bracket that attaches these lenses to their ceiling mount. Between $800 and $1500 for the lens.

Hello all,

I own the HS20, and I like it a lot. Now that the HS60 has gotten so cheap, I'm considering upgrading. My question to you: is it worth it?

Thank you.

It really depends on the price.
I have seen them going for about $1500 at bhphoto which is a good price.
It is a very nice LCD. And if you ask me it is one of the best sub 2k pj.

I had a hs60 which bought a couple of months ago. I had to return it due to small issue.
While was thinking to get another one or not, went to BB today and saw a HS51A in a sealed box for a very good price and took it home. Ran some tests and looks like a keeper.

Is SDE visible 1.5x-1.6x seating with the HS60? I can get this projector for a good price but my screen is fixed and I will be seated about 1.55x screen width away.

Moe

At about 13' away from 98" wide screen SDE is not an issue for me but I still I like it further away.

Is SDE visible 1.5x-1.6x seating with the HS60? I can get this projector for a good price but my screen is fixed and I will be seated about 1.55x screen width away.

Moe
Moe, I have the HS51a and with a 100" diagonal screen and sitting at 11 1/2 feet away, have no SDE issues at all. I can say that it is much better than it was with my 10HT that I had before this, which has a higher resolution...

Moe, I have the HS51a and with a 100" diagonal screen and sitting at 11 1/2 feet away, have no SDE issues at all. I can say that it is much better than it was with my 10HT that I had before this, which has a higher resolution...

The reason for me to prefer longer sitting distance has to do with my CRT FP. I have got used to no pixel.

I'm up in the air about the HS60 and the Z5. I can get both for around the same price. I just noticed that it says 1080i on the HS60. Isn't this a big advantage over the Z5? I've never seen anyone mention this.

Both accept 1080 but display 720p.

I found a very good deal on an HS60 and am considering purchasing. This will be my first projector. Can anyone recommend a good ceiling mount and screen (92"?) for this projector that will not break the bank?

I have an HS51A and before that had a 10HT and have been using a Chief mount the whole time. Lots of adjustment and you can remove the projector by simply loosening a few knurled nuts and lifting slightly and sliding out of the slot.

When I was replacing my old projector, I had to replace the adapter plate that attaches to the projector, but that was it. Here is a shot of the mount, minus the projector and adapter plate:
http://vonhofs.com/theater/8-4-06_projector_swap_02.jpg
And here is a shot of the adapter plate on the projector (I flipped the plate after taking this shot so I can change the filter easilly):
http://vonhofs.com/theater/8-4-06_projector_swap_06.jpg

Figure about $200 for a complete Chief mount for the Sony.

As for screens, it really depends on what you want in your room. Fixed screen, retractable, motorized, is the room light controlled, what else is the room used for, do you need to place the speakers behind the screen.....?

As for screens, it really depends on what you want in your room. Fixed screen, retractable, motorized, is the room light controlled, what else is the room used for, do you need to place the speakers behind the screen.....?

It will be in a large basement family room that is also used by my young kids quite a bit as a playroom so I'm thinking that a screen that can be tucked away when not in use may be a good idea compared to something fixed. The room is fully light controlled with dimmable lighting and no windows. I expect to place the speakers off to the sides of the screen.

So, I guess these questions are not really suited for this thread, but I will post my opinion anyway.

Based on your room and needs, I would say that if you can find a motorized screen and build it into a soffit, that would give you the best of everything. It would be out of the way and protected yet easilly available. The problem with doing this is that most of the experts on this forum will tell you that the best speaker placement (besides diretly behind an acoustically transparent screen) is above the screen. If you do a motorized screen, you can't have the speaker above the screen, unless the speaker is in front of the screen as well. Maybe build it into the soffit as well? I don't know how handy you are or to what extent you want to go in order to do this.

Depending on what size screen you want, there are deals out there. Get in touch with some of the sponsors on this forum and contact AVS as well.

BTW, gel, welcome to the forum!

BTW, gel, check your private messages.

BTW... if you are on the fence with this pj, Crutchfield just lowered their price by 700.00 - since mine is due today by UPS, I called crutchfield and they immediately issued my 700.00 credit.

Thanks! Just ordered my HS60. Looking forward to some "big screen" movies.

is what somebody can give the bond to download the service manual vpl-hs60.pdf?
Thank you

Hey guys,
I just found one of these used in my area for very little money and I'll be viewing it tomorrow, what issues should I be looking for in this projector other than VB, pixel shift, color uniformity, etc? Any suggestions of DVD material for finding specific problems? (I saw FOTR for VB) This will be my first fp so I want it to not be a bad experience.

Thanks for any help you can give...

Hey guys,
I just found one of these used in my area for very little money and I'll be viewing it tomorrow, what issues should I be looking for in this projector other than VB, pixel shift, color uniformity, etc? Any suggestions of DVD material for finding specific problems? (I saw FOTR for VB) This will be my first fp so I want it to not be a bad experience.

Thanks for any help you can give...

At the price these things are going for now days, I would not hesitate in purchasing one, I have had a hs 51 for sometime now and I can tell you that even having viewed a few of the new 1080p projectors, I am in no hurry to upgrade. If you can view some bd or hddvd movies on this projector, you will see how good this projector can be, the picture is incredible. I am using a 92" stewart firehawk in a 22'x14' basement theater and I am very happy with the picture.

I agree with Merv.
Typically with LCD you need to get close to screen and look for dead or stuck pixels and whether or not can be seen from sitting position.
Look for overall PQ and see if it is what you like in terms of brightness, uniformity across the screen, banding (looks like zebra pattern with straight vertical ghost like line) with white screen or any other color such as R, G and B. Look for misconvergence around the corner/edge of the screen as well. Take a note of lamp hour and take into consideration the $300 cost of the lamp if the PJ has about 1500 hrs or more. You probably need a filer as well for $25. Other than that just relax and watch hi def and if like it take it home. Hi def looks very nice on this projector. Good luck.

Thanks a bunch for the advice...now I'm armed!

Locked, cocked and ready to rock!

Assuming there is nothing wrong with the PJ, you should be very happy, as long as your room can handle it. Make sure you have a dark room as any light will try to wash the image out. When viewing the projector, hopefully they have it in a dark room as well because in a bright, lit-up room, you won't be able to get a good idea of what the projector can do and see if some of the issues are there (need it to be dark to really spot some of the known issues).