http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6145911#post6145911

See the link to the Sony Japan site posted by Peter Caesar!

http://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Press/200509/05-0906/

I'm pretty sure if it support non-crop 1:1 mapping over HDMI it will be my next projector! :D

But history tells us it will have some srewup flaw, again...

regards,

Li On

Thanks for the info Highjinx. The HS60 looks very nice on paper, however, it seems to be using the same lamp and has the same lumen spec as the HS50. I have a large low gain screen which meant that the HS50 had insufficient light output. I suspect that the same will hold true for the HS60.

HS20 came almost identical to the HS10, but better.

HS51/50 was a major diference

So HS60 should be very similar to the HS51/50 but better...

Hope the prices falls a bit cause Z4 / AE900 are way cheaper with similar features...

With a full iris on on/off contrast of 10,000:1, I wonder what the full iris open on/off is. The HS-50/51 is something like 1000:1 in that state, I think. Would be excellent value, if this unit has a better iris open contrast than its predecessor! A 2000:1 or even 3000:1 would be nice, but going by a similar ratio to its older sibling, perhaps 1500:1?! hmmm!

At 800Lumens pre cal, definitely a small screen unit as you say Scott B(even the new 1920x1080 SXRD is limited to 800lumens, they seem to be keeping the high lumen output for the flagship Qualia 004) and HDMI implementation had better be perfect!!! :D

It seems to use non-organic panel,which will last longer.

asterix
where did you read non organic for hs60? The commonly used term is inorganic as opposed to organic?
Was Bi:NA 6 mentioned?

I think hs60 probably tops out at 1500:1 in open iris mode in a best case scenario.

Looking at the Japanese site it appears they are using a new Dynamic Iris. It doesn't look anything like the previous generation. My guess is it closes down farther then the old one which boosted the contrast a bit. Well not a bit, by over 50%, but still.

And sorry, if this thing is near those numbers (and my HS51 is almost dead on the Sony numbers) this thing will wipe the floor with the 900 and Z4 for contrast. Lumens are a bit low, but I have a smaller screen so no worries there! But I'm still eyeing that new SXRD PJ personally.

very nice look forward to seeing more information and reviews

Except it seems to be a bit on the expensive side, even up to twice the price of e.g. the TW600.... until we get the official prices of both. But if it is, I know where my money will be.

NilsP

Looking at the Japanese site it appears they are using a new Dynamic Iris. It doesn't look anything like the previous generation. My guess is it closes down farther then the old one which boosted the contrast a bit. Well not a bit, by over 50%, but still.



Nope, the HS60 has a new technique (in addition to the adaptive Iris), it uses a special "High Contrast Plate" attached to the LCDs. This should increase the contrast even without adaptive Iris by quite some amount.

I wrote some expected numbers on our webpage.

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Cine4home
Interesting speculation from your site. I am surprised that they did not take things one step further and add a cinema filter as Epson does. That works wonders for contrast at D65.
Question
What is your opininon on Bi:NA 6. Could that be several times the contrast of current lcd? If that is the case Bi:NA 6 would beat sxrd in contrast. Both use the same technology one being reflective and one transmissive. Why would they differ in contrast?

nilsp
Correct, hs60 is starting at a higher price than hs50 did.

I am surprised that they did not take things one step further and add a cinema filter as Epson does. That works wonders for contrast at D65.


Well, that is OUR work to do :p


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

well, at least they took the time and trouble to update the exterior.....

it would be silly if we couldnt tell the hs50 and hs60 apart, wouldnt it????

:)

krlock2

well, at least they took the time and trouble to update the exterior.....

would be silly if we couldnt tell the hs50 and hs60 apart, wouldnt it????

krlock2 :)

Looks the same as the HS-51 to me!

Nope, the HS60 has a new technique (in addition to the adaptive Iris), it uses a special "High Contrast Plate" attached to the LCDs. This should increase the contrast even without adaptive Iris by quite some amount.

I wrote some expected numbers on our webpage.

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de


Ekkehart...............did I gather correctly that you expect a 2000:1 On/Off Cr with the iris open?

Cine4Home
There looks like there will be plenty of work for you
Sanyo z4
Panasonic ae900
Hitachi tx200
Sony hs60

I wonder what your insight is in lcd future. Both Sony and Epson are moving in the same direction with Bi:NA 6 and Crystal clear fine. Do you expect the dramatic contrast increases they talk about. I exemplified with d-ila and sxrd that already uses the trick that lcd is adopting and they are no contrast stars.

I also think people have taken your VB comment out of proportion. Could you give more comments on VB for z4. I know you pointed out this is not the final product.

51 and 60 look the same to me too???

Cine4home

The new plate in the HS60 is confirmed by Sony? Are they using different LCD panels then the 51 altogether?

It will be interesting to see how the Sony HS60 will compare to the Epson TW600. The TW600 will most likely be significantly brighter and be much better calibrated out of the box. The Sony should have better on-off CR, however, this is probably due to a more aggressive DI than due to higher intrinsic CR of the panels used. Other factors which will be important is ANSI contrast, video processing, and the visibility of VB, FPN, and SDE. Value would appear to be on Epson's side, however, this is an unknown until North American pricing is officially released for both of these projectors.

Nothing new as far as annoucements. All has been posted before -- except for the fact that Sony has finally "officially" announced the products now. The new plate for higher contrast on the lcd panel sounds pretty interesting though. We shall see very soon. Li On I agree if Sony fixed the 1:1 mapping over hdmi--- and I mean REALLY fixed it...This one will be mine. jeff

I don't want just a fix for the 1:1, I want a pass through for all resolutions. So if I feed it 480P, it just uses the pixels for 480P and so forth like most PJs do. An absolute true pass through.

The HS60 could be the one that causes me to defect from the DLP camp. I agree that it needs to at least have a 1:1 fix. It will be interesting to see how it looks at CEDIA, especially in comparison to the Epson and others.

I was told by an insider that the HS60 uses a new "inorganic alignment layer" that "works much better".

Ken

I guess all of the gray areas will be cleared up on Thursday after the press conference.

I agree Kris thats what I mean by a REAL fix-- native panel resolution-- feed it 720p and display 1280x720 1:1 no processing. jeff

I guess all of the gray areas will be cleared up on Thursday after the press conference.

IF we can talk to someone knowledgeable after the press conference. :rolleyes:

Hopefully, they'll have more than the PR people on hand.

well, at least they took the time and trouble to update the exterior.....

it would be silly if we couldnt tell the hs50 and hs60 apart, wouldnt it????

:)

krlock2


Sony brilliance IMO. I can swap out the HS60 for my HS51 and the wife will never know.

Kenland
So is hs60 using something inbetween old lcd and the coming Bi:NA 6 that will have inorganic alignment layers.

Sony brilliance IMO. I can swap out the HS60 for my HS51 and the wife will never know.

You must be reading my mind!!

whats the throw ratio.....Is it close to my now old HS20? Could I put the pj in the same spot? ALSO....I never use the iris function on my 20....I just did not see any contrast boost (almost the oppisite!) and I like the brighter picture. If I were to buy the HS60, I would turn the DI off and enjoy it's native contrast and brightness. I'm also curious if they are using the precurser to BI:Na.....that would sell me. The only thing I'll miss from my HS20 is it's resolution....hence no SDE. I saw the 51 down the street on a greyhawk and it was clearly visible. Maybe I'll wait till next year??????

I'm a little puzzled at the enthusiasm for the HS60 in light of the new Epson 600.

Without a filter, the Sony's contrast isn't likely to be perceivably better than the 600's 5000:1.

As Scott pointed out, the Epson is brighter (likely 2X- 3X), will give great color with minimal fussing, is less expensive, and Epson has much better service and support than Sony.

The only potential problem for the Epson is VB.

Ekkehart, do you intend to test the 600?

There must be more to the Sony'scontrast plate than they say; there's nothing new about using polarizers to increase contrast.

However they carry a significant penalty in brightness, which the Sony can hardly afford; maybe they've come up with another new trick.

Wow, that is weird. I have two friends with HS-20's that have been professionally calibrated and both of them prefer mine by a long margin (HS51). Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Ah, but Noah, that VB is the top bugaboo right now. Sony has long had a leg up on Epson in this regard.

And how much cheaper do we really think the Epson will be? Traditionally, their good stuff has not been very cheap although I know this new one appears slated for a better price.

Mark,

It seemed most 500 owners didn't find it a problem; Li On said the one he saw was awful.

For sure the jury's out on VB.

Depending on how the 2K euro (incl VAT) , and the HS60's mid $3K Japanese price translate to $US, anywhere from 1/3 less to the same.

I expect I'd take the 600 at the same price just for its brightness.

If the hs60 has no red push with the auto iris, HAS 1:1 pixel mapping w/HDMI and the Auto iris is "quicker" then I'm on it. I can live with the brightness but if those issues are not fixed then I will possibly go with Epson assuming VB is a non issue. If none of this works out my way I will just keep the HS51 till next year I guess. Maybe 1080P will be in our forum.

From Video projector - ' VPL-HS60 '

From original link posted by Peter Caesar:


1. With loading the advanced iris, maximum of 10,000: 1*actualizing high contrast
Adjusting to the light and darkness of the scene, the iris has been linked. Because of this, bright image is adjusted by optimum brightness more brightly, it is possible to obtain the contrast where the dark scene can express thick black more beautifully, is very high. According to the luminance level of the input signal, the iris (the contraction) it is the mechanism which opens and closes the shutter in the stepless floor.
Because of this, as a liquid crystal projector you do not look at example so far, maximum of 10,000: 1*it reached the point where you can obtain contrast ratio.


(* At the time of advanced iris automatic mode selection: It changes with the image which it sets and inputs and of the projector itself)

2. High contrast ratio is actualized adoption of the "high contrast plate"
There is an effect where holds down the black floating it adheres "the high contrast plate" of new development, to the liquid crystal panel, an optical leak holds down to minimum and by conveying light to the liquid crystal panel efficiently, sinks black. This "high contrast plate" with the combination of the "advanced iris", contrast ratio maximum of 10,000: 1*it actualized.


(* At the time of advanced iris automatic mode selection: It changes with the image which it sets and inputs and of the projector itself)

3. The small-scale color tone integral is possible, real color processing
It selects the color of specification of original image, the position, squeezes the range finely, from can designate adjustment as color of your own taste.

4. It was superior in focusing the four corners, オールレンジクリスプレンズ
Even at the time of lens shift use, adopting the lens which is superior in efficiency of peripheral focusing of the screen four corners.
Line of focusing clearing which crosses image is reproduced to every nook and cranny.

5. Degree of freedom it is high, lens shift mechanism
The dial just is turned can adjust up and down left and right picture position.
It can be located the image which is projected to up and down left and right with "lens shift" mechanism, without impairing picture quality adjustment (the vertical direction ±1 picture and the horizontal direction ±0.5 picture).


Point 2 is what Ekkehart mentioned, can anyone please expand on this, is this a cut down "Eclipse"?

I am getting ready to purchase the Sony HS51 projector and I find that the new projectors for the same price are just around the corner. Doees anybody have an inside scoop on the accurate date for purchasing the new Epson 600 or the new HS60? I can wait a couple of weeks BUT not months

I am getting ready to purchase the Sony HS51 projector and I find that the new projectors for the same price are just around the corner. Doees anybody have an inside scoop on the accurate date for purchasing the new Epson 600 or the new HS60? I can wait a couple of weeks BUT not months


From Sony Japan site(From posted)link : Release dates in Japan

Type name Sale day Desired retail price
Video projector - ' VPL-VW100 ' 2005 December 10th 1,365,000 Yen
(1,300,000 Yen in tax removal price)
Video projector - < cinema the > ' VPL-HS60 ' 2005 November 20th 409,500 Yen
(390,000 Yen in tax removal price)

The IFA (Germany) press release says the 600 will be selling in September, but that might be only in Europe and they might not keep to schedule.

I wonder what your insight is in lcd future. Both Sony and Epson are moving in the same direction with Bi:NA 6 and Crystal clear fine. Do you expect the dramatic contrast increases they talk about. I exemplified with d-ila and sxrd that already uses the trick that lcd is adopting and they are no contrast stars.

I also think people have taken your VB comment out of proportion. Could you give more comments on VB for z4. I know you pointed out this is not the final product.


I really can't tell right now. About SXRD, the Qualia004 and the coming Ruby show, that contrast is really not a problem for these machines anymore.


I also think people have taken your VB comment out of proportion. Could you give more comments on VB for z4. I know you pointed out this is not the final product.

VB depends on the factory adjustments. The more precise the factory works here, the better the results. We really have to wait for the final product. By the way, I have seen the PT-900 on the IFA and it had really bad VB, I hope the final product will be better.


It will be interesting to see how the Sony HS60 will compare to the Epson TW600. The TW600 will most likely be significantly brighter and be much better calibrated out of the box.


Well, you make one mistake here. The light output in the technical data is the maximal possible WITHOUT the cinema-filter. With cinema filter, you easily lose half of the maximal brightness as you have to filter green and blue down to the red level. The TW600 will NOT have this high light output with correct colors.

Of course, when you open the Cinema-filter and set the lamp to high, then you can reach the high output lumen, but of course with totally wrong color-balance.

That is the problem with the technical "marketing" numnbers... ;)

Anyway, the TW600 looked nice at the IFA....


Without a filter, the Sony's contrast isn't likely to be perceivably better than the 600's 5000:1.

As Scott pointed out, the Epson is brighter (likely 2X- 3X), will give great color with minimal fussing, is less expensive, and Epson has much better service and support than Sony.

Well, just like i wrote above, with color filter the TW600 will not have this high light output.

We will review it sooner or later yes.


The IFA (Germany) press release says the 600 will be selling in September, but that might be only in Europe and they might not keep to schedule.

No, more like end of october...


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

I think the HS-51 is an incredible projector and it is probably the nicest LCD projector I have ever seen. I too am excited to see the HS-60 at CEDIA.
I can not believe they did not up the lumens!

Ekkehart,

"Anyway, the TW600 looked nice at the IFA...."

So, no VB? :)

"Well, just like i wrote above, with color filter the TW600 will not have this high light output."

Of course, and I considered that.

Epson tends to meet their spec's, so starting with 1600 L, halving (is it really that much?) for the filter, and then reducing again for D65, should leave 400 - 600 L, about 2X the calibrated numbers I've seen for the HS50.

"We will review it sooner or later yes. "

Great, I look forward to it.

Well, you make one mistake here. The light output in the technical data is the maximal possible WITHOUT the cinema-filter. With cinema filter, you easily lose half of the maximal brightness as you have to filter green and blue down to the red level. The TW600 will NOT have this high light output with correct colors.

Of course, when you open the Cinema-filter and set the lamp to high, then you can reach the high output lumen, but of course with totally wrong color-balance.

That is the problem with the technical "marketing" numnbers... ;)

Anyway, the TW600 looked nice at the IFA....




Well, just like i wrote above, with color filter the TW600 will not have this high light output.

We will review it sooner or later yes.




No, more like end of october...


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

I am well aware of that. The Epson Cinema 500 was rated at 1000 lumens without the colour filter engaged. In Natural mode which uses the colour filter, the lumen output is about 600-650. This is quite a bit higher than the HS51. The HS61 has the same lumen spec as the HS51, but the Epson TW600 is rated 60% higher than the Cinema 500. Based on this, it would seem reasonable to expect the TW600 to be very significantly brighter than the HS61 with the colour filter engaged. Time will tell, but I would be surprised to see a calibrated HS61 do more than 400 lumens whereas the TW600 may do in the 800-1000 lumen range with the colour filter engaged.

noah,

The HS-51 has to be seen to be appreciated. There is a lot more going on between the limits of CR than at those limits.

I do hope the Epson is even better, but I doubt it. I'd be willing to bet the HS-60 will be better.

One thing about the HS-60 is that it has higher static contrast so hopefully we can reduce the action of the iris to get more lumens. In fact if its 2k:1, the iris may be optional.

Ken

It seemed most 500 owners didn't find it a problem; Li On said the one he saw was awful.

NOT "the one", MANY is.

regards,

Li On

"NOT "the one", MANY is."

My mistake.

Might part of the problem be that you view fronm very close?

Cine4Home,

Was the VB on the PT-AE900 you viewed at IFA worse than (or just as bad as) the VB on the PT-AE700? Was the Z4 much better in this respect? Thanks.

I wonder if the LCD panels plus "High Contrast Plate(s)" will provide full black out areas that would work like a charm in eliminating the "grey bars" in aspect ratios other than 16:9.

Come on Sony give us JET BLACK bars! :)

Noah, thanks. I get it and I'm inclined to agree. As great as the HS51 is, there is much to be said for brightness.

The SDE killed HS50/51 for me...

NilsP

Comparing hs60 and tw600 from specs.
When watching sports (not at D65) the tw600 will no doubt be able to be brighter and that is a bonus.

When watching movies hs60 will no doubt have more contrast and eb able to go blacker. However with a tw600 in eco mode , cinema filter and natural the contrast will be good with and also the black level.

My guess: tw600 eco mode, cinema filter , natural and auto-iris ->450 ANSI lumen

Sony brilliance IMO. I can swap out the HS60 for my HS51 and the wife will never know.

hahaha :) thats a funny comment.

i was being ironic when i made my earlier post that the hs50 and hs60 dont look the same.... in fact they look 100 percent alike, as far as i can tell.

i have never seen that on a product update before, so im wondering if in fact this is the final look of the hs60????

certainly, if i owned a hs50 though, i would also be thinking of secretly swapping out the unit without the wife knowing..... :)

krlock2

Cine4Home,

Was the VB on the PT-AE900 you viewed at IFA worse than (or just as bad as) the VB on the PT-AE700? Was the Z4 much better in this respect? Thanks.


Well, lets put it like that: I have seen PT700s with less VB than the PT900 and PT700s with more VB. So my first guess is that Panasonic did not adress the VB issue at all... But lets wait and see...


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

I can't wait for the tests of the PT900. The issue seems to be quality control. If Panasonic did not address the VB issue as has been suggested they will lose many sales. I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I own a AE700 and my Vb has nearly disappeared after about 100 hours. If the 900 has VB I would not think of upgrading.

hahaha :) thats a funny comment.

i was being ironic when i made my earlier post that the hs50 and hs60 dont look the same.... in fact they look 100 percent alike, as far as i can tell.

i have never seen that on a product update before, so im wondering if in fact this is the final look of the hs60????

certainly, if i owned a hs50 though, i would also be thinking of secretly swapping out the unit without the wife knowing..... :)

krlock2

infocus x1/4800 and 4805 along with a bunch of other infocus/screenplay and related projectors.

well, shame on infocus then...

I'm a little puzzled at the enthusiasm for the HS60 in light of the new Epson 600.
.

Given that the Epson is going to list for $4500 in the U.S., my personal enthusiasm for the Sony is up, the Epson down to zero.

Yep, different story now.

But to quote myself from the TW600 thread,

"5000:1 CR vs. 3000:1 sounds compelling, but is likely not perceptible except in the most thoroughly light controlled rooms.

Unless the 550 has significantly less competent video processing, I suspect there's not nearly as much difference in performance between the 550 and the 800 as there is in price."

Now I'm pinning my hopes on the 550 having essentially the same usable CR as the HS50 and lots more brightness for less money.

Just keeping my fingers crossed about the processing and VB.

Also, think about the money you save from cheaper replacement bulb with the 550.

From cine4home's thoughts on the HS60

"During the international radio exhibition in Berlin almost all manufacturers presented their new product range. Equipment did not create it however any longer in time, the new Sony VPL-HS60. But now the manufacturer made the first data of the public in a press release accessible. Purely outwardly the new one differs from its predecessor, the HS50, hardly, only the chromium-plated zoom shot ring appears now likewise in dezentem black. The more surprisingly the technical data read themselves: No less than 10000:1 maximum contrast indicates the manufacturer here. What is the technical trick? The principle of the adaptive iris screen made school meanwhile with all manufacturers. With it the maximum contrast of LCD projectors on 5000:1 to 6000:1 can be increased. Also the Sony VPL-HS50 actually reached with its appearance a so high Kontrastverhaeltns (nevertheless still 2800:1 colorcalibrate). Naturally it would not be technically conceivable to leave by further closing of the iris screen the "measured value" on up to 10000:1 high-fast but would be this meaningful and improvement in line with standard usage. Sony went therefore with the HS60 a new way: Additionally to the adaptive iris now the panel Contrast was increased by special "High Contrast Plates". This additional layer is coupled with the individual LCDs and ensures so for one better polarization and thereby improved schwarzwert. The contrast gain by this new technology is considerable: According to manufacturer so the contrast can again around 65%(!!) on up to 10000:1 to be increased. This alone is already an impressing value, but critics will criticize (as with all current LCD models) that this value is reached only by (partial slowly-acting) variable iris screens. We regard once for this the maximum contrast of the predecessor HS50 with deactivated iris screen, it amounted to with our test 1200:1. If one estimates now a contrast gain of approximately 65%, then the HS60 could reach completely without "iris trick" a Kontastverhaeltnis of up to 2000:1. This would be for a LCD projector a unique value. To what extent our first "speculations" to be confirmed and whether the new technology will have other "side effects", we will examine in our detailed test for the introduction on the market of the HS60."

Impressive.......specially for the price.

For 2+ screen widths viewing distance, providing minimal negatives, I guess quite a few takers, no doubt!

Plan on a small and/or high gain screen with no ambient light.

92" Diagonal..........night time movie viewing mainly?............!!!.

Wonder what the situation will be when BiNa6 comes on stream. They will be able to produce a unit with much higher light output while maintaining "current" contrast levels and the option of turning the light output down and increasing contrast 2+X current levels.

As the native panel contrast increases, there may be a trend towards using less reliance on an iris (i.e. having the maximum open setting greater than before) to achieve acceptable contrast which in turn would increase overall light output. This would be a good thing for those with largish screens.

No one talking this model! Seriously, anyone see one yet?

Please Sony, please, fix the HDMI 1:1 mapping and no crop, and I'll get one in a heatbeat! PLEASE!

regards,

Li On

Doesn't Sony usually debut the new models at CEDIA? Does anyone know if HS60 was at CEDIA?

It was not.

Anyone got an official MSRP on this?

No, but I'm betting $3499.

The HS51 is being blown out, so it's especially odd the HS60 wasn't at CEDIA.

I have posted this elsewhere, but I will comment in this thread as well since it deals with the HS60 specifically.

The HS60 is not a model for the US. That is why it was not shown at CEDIA, and why so few Sony reps in the US have even heard of it.

The HS51 model number will remain current for the upcoming model year. What is unclear at this moment is if the present design of the HS51 will remain current for the upcoming model year.

Stay tuned...

OK, whatever. A major big-box retailer had them on sale for $1999 here vs. $3499. Crutchfield has a new price (also doesn't normally discount).

So either it's gotten a lot cheaper or its gone.

With a full iris on on/off contrast of 10,000:1, I wonder what the full iris open on/off is. The HS-50/51 is something like 1000:1 in that state, I think. Would be excellent value, if this unit has a better iris open contrast than its predecessor! A 2000:1 or even 3000:1 would be nice, but going by a similar ratio to its older sibling, perhaps 1500:1?! hmmm!

At 800Lumens pre cal, definitely a small screen unit as you say Scott B(even the new 1920x1080 SXRD is limited to 800lumens, they seem to be keeping the high lumen output for the flagship Qualia 004) and HDMI implementation had better be perfect!!! :D

am thinking of buying the vpl-hs51 and was wondering what exactly people mean by it being "a small screen unit?" is it inadequate for a 96" diagonal screen with a gain of 1.4? (and by the way, would that screen size be okay if the projector is about 11 feet away on a table top?) and if the hs51 isn't a good fit for that size/distance, what other projectors would folks recommend i consider? one of the reasons i was attracted by the hs51 is that it's pretty quiet, which is significant since it'll be on a table top in front of us. thanks,

tu

You should be fine with a 96" diagonal 1.4 gain screen provided that you do not have ambient light to content with. You may wish to consider one of the new D5 LCD projectors (e.g., Panasonic AE900 or Epson Cinema 550). These would be competitors to Sony's HS60 which North America will apparently not be getting, at least initially.

t4uecker.........sorry for my misleading comments "small screen unit", what I mean is under 100" diagonal. As Scott B said, you will be fine with the screen size and gain. Considering these factors, you will possibly end up with 22Ft/Lamberts or so from your prime viewing position. Perfect for viewing in a darkened room. If ambient light was filtering in.......perhaps 32Ft/L would be needed.

Regarding throw distance, check Projector Centrals calculator: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-HS51-projection-calculator-pro.htm

However, I think you will be fine. You say you want to table mount......if so is your screen retro reflective?, if not and it's angular reflective, you may not get the gain you expect. You may have to consider ceiling mounting.

Good Luck! :)

Would I be correct in thinking that the "High Contrast Plate(s)" could be utilised to effectively minimise the "visible greyness" of the aspect ratio bars by making them darker, if not black, by shutting off more light to the panels in those areas. Not it's intended purpose, I realise, but nevertheless a useful aspect..........no?

According to this Sony pdf:

http://www.sony.com.hk/Electronics/pr_t/pdf/20050912_04c.pdf


The HS60's On/OFF cr is from 1700:1 to 10,000:1

As well as 1200Lumens!!!!...........what the?........pure marketing?

Also refer to "Cinema Block Pro"....perhaps the "High Contrast Plate"?...or should it really read "Cinema Black Pro"?!!!


Anyone care to translate this pdf?

That is Cinema Black Pro. Just typing mistake. By the way, it said it will release in Hong Kong in mid October with rrp HK$24,990. All the rest is typical specs stuff and nothing special. 1,200 ansi might not mean much. I read the same with HS50/51.

http://www.sony.com.au/catalog/product.jsp?id=VPLHS50

That is Cinema Black Pro. Just typing mistake. By the way, it said it will release in Hong Kong in mid October with rrp HK$24,990. All the rest is typical specs stuff and nothing special. 1,200 ansi might not mean much. I read the same with HS50/51.

http://www.sony.com.au/catalog/product.jsp?id=VPLHS50


Thank you for that Peter, I thought it might be Cinema Black Pro............the Cinema Block Pro was perhaps wishful thinking on my part in light of the High Contrast Plate, BTW did the pdf mention anything about the HCP?

The Japanese Sony site stated 800lumens(pre cal?) Hence my questioning the 1200 figure. Was wondering if Panasonics Ae900 @ 1100 lumen spec had any influence on the "revised" spec of 1200!. :)

One phrase about HCP but nothing in detail...

Sony use new and self developed "High Contrast Thin Plate" together with Cinema Black Pro, Lamp control and Auto Iris Control to achieve the ultra high 10,000:1 contrast rating.

I see brightness of HS50/51 ranging from 800 to 1300 in different sites, which really is a mystery to me. But I did find it look dimmer than most pj with less rating.

What do you guys suppose the reason for not bringing the HS-60 to North America is? That it may undercut sales of the Ruby?

What do you guys suppose the reason for not bringing the HS-60 to North America is? That it may undercut sales of the Ruby?

My guess it's just a "Sales Smoke Screen" till current US stocks of the HS51 are depleted.

It's unlikely Sony won't release the "New HS60/61" in the U.S, under that model number, with the competition releasing new models/numbers.

Just my opinion :)

My guess it's just a "Sales Smoke Screen" till current US stocks of the HS51 are depleted.

It's unlikely Sony won't release the "New HS60/61" in the U.S, under that model number, with the competition releasing new models/numbers.

I tend to agree with this, I mean why not keep ahead of the competition rather than wait for them to catch up.

BAD NEWS, very BAD!

1:1 PERFECT edge to edge pixel SHARP mapping over HDMI is just plug and play. NO crop, No zoom and all pixel crystal sharp! Source is a HTPC ATI Radeon DVI to HS60 HDMI!

NO VB, excellent color, much better contrast (overall feeling) than HS50, easy D65K ColorFacts tuning under DI, bright picture after D65K on 92" diag Stewart 130.

Looks like my 9 months old Epson TW200J may live a short life!

I need to view more to find it's fatal flaw. There must be a deal breaker! :D

regards,

Li On

PS: prepare to dump the old HS50/51 together with the DVI-VGA converter! :D

PPS: here some phtots:
http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/av-uploads/2005/09/24/1127574798.jpg
http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/av-uploads/2005/09/24/1127574636.jpg

Li On
Less SDE than hs50?
Do you think the pixel mapping is a result from Sony listening to consumer complaints or is it just a fluke?
Is it a more advanced DI? Is it the same DI as in Ruby?

Li On, Care to spill the beans on where you acquired an HS60? What is the MSRP?

Donno. I was fully prepared to find the same forced overscan like the HS50/51 "fix" and was pleasantly surprised!

The unit has excellent panel convergence. Edge to edge R/G/B alignment are all within 1/3 pixel.

The DI responding time is way faster than the first generation HS50/51. In fact I didn't detect the DI action at all during the short viewing. Excellent performance.

SDE is still like any normal 720P LCD projector so that maybe the last remaining issue for those SDE sensitive viewer.

regards,

Li On

Local MRSP is HK$24999 which is around US$3200. THe unit should be officially on sales within 2 weeks.

regards,

Li On

Can this sync to 48Hz?

Any chance to get a better pic of the rear inputs?

The whole case and input are the same as the HS50/51.

regards,

Li On

Does this unit have lens shift?

Li On
Some pictures on hs51 pixels showed rounded pixels. Is this still the case and is SDE less than with hs50.

Reports on D5 lcds talk about less SDE than D4.

Does this unit have lens shift?
Yes. Take a look at Li On's second pic posted in the previous page.

Li On
Some pictures on hs51 pixels showed rounded pixels. Is this still the case and is SDE less than with hs50.

That should be due to the "half" pixel mapping effect! The HS60 has the same (if not more) SDE as the HS50. Actually the pixel grid seems look a bit "solid" than the HS50. Maybe due to the new "black plate" on the LCD panel?

Anyway, SDE is not a concern on 720P LCD IMO. There are many other more important issues.

regards,

Li On

Bad bad news indeed.....Li On! :D

Post D65K cal still bright you say, how does the HS60 compare with the HS50 in this regard , since it appears to be brighter than it's predecessor, would this unit mate well with a 92" Greyhawk RS?

Has the lens shift drift been fixed?

How does a star field look, contrast wise?

Do tell us more about the "black plate"!

Thanks for the information! :)

The HS60 has the same (if not more) SDE as the HS50. Actually the pixel grid seems look a bit "solid" than the HS50. Maybe due to the new "black plate" on the LCD panel?

Anyway, SDE is not a concern on 720P LCD IMO. There are many other more important issues.


Hmmm.. For us who has to sit "not so far" from the screen, this is not good news. I thought it was bad on the HS50, enough not to get it. If it is even worse... Bummer. The search continues. I guess the important issues varies from person to person...

NilsP

Hmmm.. For us who has to sit "not so far" from the screen, this is not good news. I thought it was bad on the HS50, enough not to get it. If it is even worse... Bummer. The search continues. I guess the important issues varies from person to person...

NilsP

IMX it, Nilsip, IMX it! :D

That should be due to the "half" pixel mapping effect! The HS60 has the same (if not more) SDE as the HS50. Actually the pixel grid seems look a bit "solid" than the HS50. Maybe due to the new "black plate" on the LCD panel?

Anyway, SDE is not a concern on 720P LCD IMO. There are many other more important issues.

regards,

Li On

I wonder if this increase in SDE will push people toward Sxrd! :D

You're probably noticing the pixel grid a bit more because the pixels are slightly sharper when you bypass the internal scaler. This is a lot of the reason that some people prefer VGA. But it also really depends on your seating distance and screen size. Yes, LCD just does not have the fill factor of DLP or LCOS, but with the appropriate screen size and seating distance, it doesn't have to be a major issue.

hey li on wanna sell it ?????????:) prob not huh? Cant wait to get a hold of this.. inability to do 1:1 over hdmi was always my sore spot with hs51 (other than that it is great)
jeff

The manual comes with HS60 shows that HS60 is equivalent to HS51A which has extra feature of customised gamma.

So maybe here in the states they will market this as the HS-51A? Maybe it will just be a running change like the last update they did. Remember that the last update they did was a complete swap out of the video processing board so there is no reason to think they couldn't do something like this. If they fixed the 1:1 issue, added custom gamma and improved the dynamic iris then this could be nothing more then changes to the software. The contrast plate would be the hardware change. And since no one knows EXACTLY what the contrast plate is, it could be as simple as a plate with a hole in it that acts as a fixed iris before the LCD panels. I guess until someone opens one up we won't know for sure.

I was wondering if the the contrast enhancing "plate" was not something like the magical film used in the black screens. Something that would allow light to pass from the lamp to the lens, but would cut down on stray light cross contaminating adjoining pixels.

Something like this would help Ansi as well as On/Off contrast.

Ken

Might be. By putting something actually in the path of the light though you would be decreasing the amount of light coming out, so I imagine that would hurt On/Off contrast but improve black levels. Because while limiting the overall level of black, you would also be limiting the overall level of white. So Ken's idea holds up a lot better. An inorganic layer could be it though too. If it only affects when the panels are trying to keep light from getting through it does not limit the overall level of white when light is passing through, it just helps with heat build up. Hopefully we'll find out soon.

Hi Li On.....what about 1:1 @ 50hz for us PAL folks.....any luck there ??

Thanks.........Tex.

It can get 1:1 mapping at 50Hz but fail at 48Hz.

1:1 at 50Hz, and smooth playback no tearing? How about 72Hz?

regards,

Li On

" A major box dealer here advertised this projector for $4999 CDN."

You can always find someone not budging from MSRP even amidst closeout pricing elsewhere.

...The HS60 has the same (if not more) SDE as the HS50. Actually the pixel grid seems look a bit "solid" than the HS50. Maybe due to the new "black plate" on the LCD panel?
...
regards,

Li On

Probably is the "black plate". Decreasing the light contamination from pixel to pixel will increase the Ansi contrast and make the screen door blacker. That's because less light is washing out the grid.

This is a good sign!

Kris, you're right about the On/Off contrast. The best the black plate could do is not hurt. (unless the full screen black is being limited by angled stray light that the plate rejects) We'll have to wait for a real review.

Ken

Li On,

Can you say anything about the throw of the 60 vs the 51?

Thanks,
Ken

Any guess when this projector will be for sale in the US market?

I remember reading that the HS51 did not fare very well with larger screens (e.g. 120") in Cinema Mode. Any indications that the newer HS60 will be better with large screens?

:D Use
b a b e l f i s h . a l t a v i s t a com
to translate (From Chinese-trad to English)
a v b u z z c o m
enter the site and you'll find 2 reports,
1) CKL center HS60
2) The CKL demonstration meets live

Last night I watched the HS60 in CKL's setup for more than 2 hours. Tried many familiar clips.

Well, this time around I finally saw many minor flaws. Such as:

- DTS sampler 9, Master and Commander clip, some minor VB and minor color uniformity (left reddish and right greenish) in the fog scene
- seeing the DI goes brighter and dimmer in scene change
- DVD subtitle confusing DI
- 4:3 with left/right pillarbars confusing DI
- not so great ANSI contrast in bright scene
- screendoor annonying
- vertical motion scan line effect

Not yet a perfect projector it seems! :D Looks like I can stick to my good old Epson TW200H for a little longer...

regards,

Li On

PS: that being said, you guys should know I've a abnormal taste in projection image, after going through 4 CRT projectors, 2 DLP projectors, and 4 LCD projectors with a total count of over 10K hours in 8 years! Don't worry, I bet you will all love the HS60! :D

[/QUOTE]PS: that being said, you guys should know I've a abnormal taste in projection image, after going through 4 CRT projectors, 2 DLP projectors, and 4 LCD projectors with a total count of over 10K hours in 8 years! Don't worry, I bet you will all love the HS60! :D[/QUOTE]

Just get a Ruby or C3X instead of spending so much for so many units. :D

Last night I watched the HS60 in CKL's setup for more than 2 hours. Tried many familiar clips.

Well, this time around I finally saw many minor flaws. Such as:

- DTS sampler 9, Master and Commander clip, some minor VB and minor color uniformity (left reddish and right greenish) in the fog scene
- seeing the DI goes brighter and dimmer in scene change
- DVD subtitle confusing DI
- 4:3 with left/right pillarbars confusing DI
- not so great ANSI contrast in bright scene
- screendoor annonying
- vertical motion scan line effect

Not yet a perfect projector it seems! :D Looks like I can stick to my good old Epson TW200H for a little longer...

regards,

Li On

PS: that being said, you guys should know I've a abnormal taste in projection image, after going through 4 CRT projectors, 2 DLP projectors, and 4 LCD projectors with a total count of over 10K hours in 8 years! Don't worry, I bet you will all love the HS60! :D



Hey Li On,

Are you still using GIEC HDMI DVD or have you jumped ship? Which DVD player are you using with these HS60 observations? Let us know...

I, as always, use my HTPC! CKL has a HTPC but it seems only work on odd number date! His other setup is a Panny RP82 SDI to the Crystalio scaler.

regards,

Li On

The High Contrast Plate:

http://www.avbuzz.com/event/albums/album42/DSCF2217a.jpg

Now what does it do and how does it do it? :)

Even though I have attended the presentation by Sony HK, I didn't really understand how the high contrst plate works. I guess it is used to absorb the light within the optical engine to improve the black level.

Has there been any word on the usa release or are we stuck importing this sucker--- because i gotta have this baby!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol I really think Sony is about to mount a serious comeback (not that they havent always been cutting edge) but They really are listening to what we want in a pj (1:1 mapping over hdmi is awesome) and the contrast improvement over the already great hs51!!! They also realize that they need to make it affordable. jeff

Here http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200509/SonyHS60report/index.htm is the detail report.

This report seems to say that there is a fair bit of SDE and that one should sit 1.8 screen widths away. Ouch! :(

I really would like to replace my sony 10ht with another sony, but this SDE news is not good for me since I like to sit close. I know about the IMX lens, but that just adds to the price. I may have to consider the Panasonic AE900, which I would rather not do since I am a Sony fanboy;).

Here http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200509/SonyHS60report/index.htm is the detail report.

sweet, that's the most coherent and useful projector review i have ever read, can't wait to see their reviews of the other 720p lcd projectors.

CKL,

Thanks so much for your excellent comprehensive review.

I can hardly wait for you to see the Epson!

CKL,

Thanks so much for your excellent comprehensive review.

Sounds like a great pj, except for the brightness. I agree 100% that they should put the higher wattage lamp back in.

I imagine they wanted to keep the noise down, but they could always have a low power/low noise setting with the brighter lamp.

You raise a very interesting point about the DI action with things like subtitles. I always watch with them, and it would seem that because they're always going on and off, it could make the DI action very distracting.

I can hardly wait for you to see the Epson!

Thanks......CKL, Excellent information. I'm all for the brighter bulb! Await your "Ruby" report!

BTW re HS60, is the lumen out you reported on in high or low lamp mode. How would the HS60 black levels perform with a fabric say M2500 Draper?. This may be a good match in a 92" considering the low output of the Sony?

Any thoughts welcome!

Looks like the low IRE's were a bit of trouble to calibrate. I wonder if you could eliminate that bump with further tweaking or filters.

Li On

Are you sure the banding isn't an issue with your source player? I've tried the Master and Commander sequence a few times with my player to the HS-51 and there is no banding to be seen at all. If I feed the PJ 720P via the HDMI output of my player (Denon 5910) there is no visible banding with a gray ramp (great test) or the scene from Master and Commander. Every time I've seen someone complain of banding or contouring it was because they were using an 8-bit (typically DVI) source.

By the way, I will be replacing my HS-51 with one of these, whether I can get it in the states or have to import in.

It is rush to write the HS60 report. I miss some information. Here is the supplementary information:

1. All the test and review are done under high lamp mode
2. There is no aspect ratio selection when you input 720P digital signal to HS60
3. Its 12 bit video processing is good to eliminate banding and macro blocking
4. After 30-90IRE D65 calibration, it output 340 lumen. At my 1.3 gain Studiotek, it has 18ftL. I feel the picture is dynamic enough. The lamp normally drops 30% after 200 hours. At that moment, I still have 12ftL. Therefore I think its luminance is enough for 92in diagonal 1.3 gain. I don't recommend gray screen for HS60. If you are going to use 100in or larger, I suggest 1.5 gain or above.

Regarding D65 calibration, the Red shows a bump shape along 30-100IRE. It may be improved if I have more time. Anyway, our eyes are not as sensitive as the sensor. 3% deviation from D65 is acceptable and unaware.

To tackle the VB, I used 0-100IRE full screen plus RGB color fields. I've seen several HS50. They have slightly different degree of VB. I can't say HS50/60 100% no VB but 99%. Don't worry. HS60 is good enough regarding VB. I think it is as good as Fujitsu D711 in this area.

Outstanding review. Glad that the new Sony was able to improve upon black level of the HS50/51 (which IMO was already fantastic). I suspect this portends good things for the coming Sony Ruby.

CKL.......wondering how the "AR Black Bars" are? Grey or Black?

Thanks :)

When I said VB, that's VB, IMO. The few HS50 I saw has less VB in low IRE. As good as my Epson TW200H or better, in terms of VB-less! This HS60 has some subtle VB in low IRE, according to my taste anyway. Don't worry I'm sure it's a non-issue for 99.9% normal users out there! :D

regards,

Li On

whats the word on the hs60 coming to america? are we out of luck? kinda weird I have not heard anything....... jeff

Edited... guys, you know the rules.

CKL.......wondering how the "AR Black Bars" are? Grey or Black?

Thanks :)


Sorry, I don't pay attention in this area. Don't worry, HS60 demo the best black level among digital projectors. The black is as low as Marantz S4.

Dark 0 IRE black levels are great and all but I'm much more worried about ANSI contrast and the speed of the AI. Does anyone know if we are getting this over the HS51? I was thinking of keeping mine for another year till we get some 1080P action but faster AI and higher ANSI might be worth the upgrade to me.

sweet, that's the most coherent and useful projector review i have ever read, can't wait to see their reviews of the other 720p lcd projectors.

http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200510/ckl-tw600/index.htm

I dont see the vpl-hs51 on sony.com anymore!?!?!?!?!? Oh boy Christmas is coming early this year vpl-hs61 sweet :)

There's some nice screenshots of the HS60 in action on the french hone cinema forum.
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29792059&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=300
The cover of the manual states HS60 for europe and HS51A ( for the U.S.? )
The screenshots back up CKLs statement about the black levels...impressive.
Cheers, Rob. :)

What if I feed my 4805 with a HD signal from newly acquired digital cable box, will I see dramatic improvement over what I am watching now? Also, I bought a re-furb Samsung DVD player that upconverts to 1080i, will I see an improvement over picture quality if I use the projector with the new DVD player, or is everything going to be 480P and no better? If I buy another projector, like a Benq 6100, is it going to have better pq? Just want to squeeze the most out of my HD sources - DirectTV, Digital Cable, and 1080i DVD player.

I asked this question over here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6311587#post6311587) on the AE900 thread, but figured it would be more likely that somebody looking at this thread would know the answer:

Does anybody remember what color filter people were getting from 2filter.com for the HS51? I believe it was a little to the orange or salmon side, which I'm guessing would also work well with the AE900 with its color balance. It looks like a 77mm would fit on the AE900, but I don't know what size the HS51 called for.

Thanks,
Darin

What if I feed my 4805 with a HD signal from newly acquired digital cable box, will I see dramatic improvement over what I am watching now? Also, I bought a re-furb Samsung DVD player that upconverts to 1080i, will I see an improvement over picture quality if I use the projector with the new DVD player, or is everything going to be 480P and no better? If I buy another projector, like a Benq 6100, is it going to have better pq? Just want to squeeze the most out of my HD sources - DirectTV, Digital Cable, and 1080i DVD player.
Hmm ... good question, but I think that it's out of place in a sticky devoted to the Sony HS-60. Let's not clutter this thread, please.

Thanks for the link home again. I wonder why sony would give 51a to usa and 60 to japan and others? Why name them differently? My guess would be maybe sony tweeked the hs51 (1:1 mapping) and are going to rerelease it at a comparable price to the ae900 here in the states.(street price wise) And then for the hs60 they get 1:1 mapping, new contrast plates, who knows what else but they get the msrp of 3499$ ? I think this could work. My only grip with the hs51 is 1:1 mapping and at a lower price to go head to head with 900 and z4 I think the 51a would still come out on top. (esp at the same price) 2 cents worth jeff

"The screenshots back up CKLs statement about the black levels...impressive."

Because of the way digital cameras work, screenshots are a *completely* unreliable indeicator of black level.

I've seen screenshots of pj's with CR of 400:1 look like they have inky blacks.

I asked this question over here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6311587#post6311587) on the AE900 thread, but figured it would be more likely that somebody looking at this thread would know the answer:

Does anybody remember what color filter people were getting from 2filter.com for the HS51? I believe it was a little to the orange or salmon side, which I'm guessing would also work well with the AE900 with its color balance. It looks like a 77mm would fit on the AE900, but I don't know what size the HS51 called for.

Thanks,
Darin


its an "ambar" filter, um, there weas this one sight....i 4 got, pm me for the info

Does anybody remember what color filter people were getting from 2filter.com for the HS51? I believe it was a little to the orange or salmon side, which I'm guessing would also work well with the AE900 with its color balance. It looks like a 77mm would fit on the AE900, but I don't know what size the HS51 called for.

Thanks,
Darin


A 77mm fits over the top of the lens on the HS51 and rests well there.

From those screenshot, absolutely no VB at all. Do you guys agree ?


There's some nice screenshots of the HS60 in action on the french hone cinema forum.
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29792059&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=300
The cover of the manual states HS60 for europe and HS51A ( for the U.S.? )
The screenshots back up CKLs statement about the black levels...impressive.
Cheers, Rob. :)

Thanks for the link home again. I wonder why sony would give 51a to usa and 60 to japan and others? Why name them differently? My guess would be maybe sony tweeked the hs51 (1:1 mapping) and are going to rerelease it at a comparable price to the ae900 here in the states.(street price wise) And then for the hs60 they get 1:1 mapping, new contrast plates, who knows what else but they get the msrp of 3499$ ? I think this could work. My only grip with the hs51 is 1:1 mapping and at a lower price to go head to head with 900 and z4 I think the 51a would still come out on top. (esp at the same price) 2 cents worth jeff

Gosh I was just hoping for one improved version. The current one didn't impress me at all in a demo. But it was a poor store setup. Anyone have any better idea on what's coming for the US market. I bet it's another late entry into the game. :confused:

Folks.....how do you think a HS-60 will mate up with a 92" diagonal Draper M2500 fabric?

Any input will be appreciated! :)

Here http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200509/SonyHS60report/index.htm is the detail report.

Thanks CKL for the great work on reviewing the HS60 and Epson 600!... Can't wait to hear your reports on the Z4 and Panny 900.

I dont see the vpl-hs51 on sony.com anymore!?!?!?!?!? Oh boy Christmas is coming early this year vpl-hs61 sweet

I have been told the HS51 will remain current through the end of '05. I was also told the HS51 would be replaced after the the first of '06. The model number and details are not yet available alothough it is being stongly speculated the replacement will be "VPL-HS61" and it will be a North American version of the HS60.

I have been told the HS51 will remain current through the end of '05. I was also told the HS51 would be replaced after the the first of '06. The model number and details are not yet available alothough it is being stongly speculated the replacement will be "VPL-HS61" and it will be a North American version of the HS60.

So I guess we wait till CES '06. :(

hey ckl would there be any draw backs from importing a hs60? Can you change the osd to english? thanks - jeff

HS60 has english menu as shown in my review. However, importing LCD projector is a risk because of possible defects regarding dead pixel, VB and color uniformity. I don't know if Sony will guarantees zero dead pixel or not. If you have a local friend to check up the projector before paying the money, then it is more reliable.

thanks ckl...........wanna be my local freind???????? :) :) :) Now Ill have to find an importer, anybody on the avs forum sponsor list do this? or maybe ebay.. Its gonna be hard for me to wait til next year for this puppy.......thanks jeff

The projector situation surely is in quite a transformation right now.

Is this new Sony NOT using 1920*1080 SXRD panels? If so, why?
Sony is selling these in their 50-60 inch SXRD rear projectors for $4-5K. There is almost universal praise for the picture quality. Color oversaturation appears to be the most serious issue. Certainly a product of the year.

Now Consumer Reports rates the Epson 500 higher than the HS51:)

Then Projector Central rates the $2k Sanyo Z4 as highly as any single DLP projector, even those at the crazy $12K price range. :):)
http://www.projectorcentral.com/sanyo_plv-z4.htm
Interesting reading considering that Evan Powell has always exhibited a strong bias towards DLP (no dither noise or artifacts here).

Finally, the market is correcting itself: No one should pay much more than $2K for a superb but lowly 1280*720 projector :):):)

While these products are huge and welcome advance in picture quality, none feature 1:1 pixel mapping at 1920*1080 60fps. My intent is to wait one more year and get it all, without having to go through the costly upgrade cycle again.

Update: Epson 500

reincarnate,

Consumer Reports and ProjectorCentral must be last places where you will look for projector information - they are jokes when it comes to real projector information and reviews.

reincarnate,

Consumer Reports and ProjectorCentral must be last places where you will look for projector information - they are jokes when it comes to real projector information and reviews.
In the past Consumer Reports display reviews left a lot to be desired. This time they were spot on. I can already tell you that when they make one of their little updates, the Sony SXRD rear projector will place at the top.
The Panasonic plasma rightfully had the best picture quality. In front projectors, the Epson 500 and Sharp 2000 placed tops. The Sony HS51 was a step down in PQ.

The fact is SXRD (and maybe the new JVC 1080p D-ILA) is the best technology this year. There is no doubt that Sony made a choice to push aside the much smaller HS51 replacement front projector market and literally restore its image with the average consumer. Enjoy the drought:)

"Now Consumer Reports rates the Epson 600 higher than the HS51"

It's well known that the 500 (not 600) is one of the brighter LCD pj's and the HS51 one of the dimmer ones.

"Now Consumer Reports rates the Epson 600 higher than the HS51"

It's well known that the 500 (not 600) is one of the brighter LCD pj's and the HS51 one of the dimmer ones.

Any thread for the Consumer Report ?

Yes, I think it was in the 3.5k+ forum.

I just read CKL's AE900 review at AVBUZZ, concluding he says that the HS60 blinking effect of the dynamic iris, doesn't compair to the action of the AE900's iris.

This irractic action of the iris on the HS 60 would be a put off to some :eek:. I sure hope Sony addresses this issue prior to putting the HS60/61 on the market.

The iris in Ruby seem to handle subtitles. This means Sony has the know huw to fix any subtitle problem in a finished product.

I have reflected this problem to Sony and hope them solve it at the production units.

Could someone please post a dorect link to the HS60 review?

Thanks

http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200509/SonyHS60report/index.htm

In the past Consumer Reports display reviews left a lot to be desired. This time they were spot on. I can already tell you that when they make one of their little updates, the Sony SXRD rear projector will place at the top.
The Panasonic plasma rightfully had the best picture quality. In front projectors, the Epson 500 and Sharp 2000 placed tops. The Sony HS51 was a step down in PQ.




tw500 pq quality = hs 20 (hs51 was a big step up in PQ)

"Now Consumer Reports rates the Epson 600 higher than the HS51"

It's well known that the 500 (not 600) is one of the brighter LCD pj's and the HS51 one of the dimmer ones.


dimer is often better for cinema (HS51 brightness is nearly the same than ptae700, and other recents homecinema projectors when "tweaked" for contrast)

tw600 seams to be the worse d5 projector (Z4, PTAE900, .. : hs50, 60 are superiors)

reincarnate,

Consumer Reports and ProjectorCentral must be last places where you will look for projector information - they are jokes when it comes to real projector information and reviews.

I don't know where you get your information? I have found at least Consumer Reports to be on target for every product that I have purchased - the only problem is when I come armed with a Consumer Report review and able to talk intelligently to a sales person about the real world merits of various products.

Where do you recommend we get unbiased reports on products, from this site?

Where do you recommend we get unbiased reports on products, from this site?

For Projectors, HDTVs etc ... yes. You would need to read a lot of posts ... but in the end you will get a better picture (esp. about the kind of problems you could face and how the manufacturer handles them).

dimer is often better for cinema (HS51 brightness is nearly the same than ptae700, and other recents homecinema projectors when "tweaked" for contrast)

tw600 seams to be the worse d5 projector (Z4, PTAE900, .. : hs50, 60 are superiors)

it seems a little harsh do rule out TW600 after one review of a pre-production unit, here in sweden many have seen the TW600 live (also pre-production) up against Z4/900/TX200/HS50

and the ranking seems to be between the D5

TX200
TW600
Z4/900

i have ordered the TW600 because it costs 2000$ here in sweden with 1year/1000h lamp warranty and 3years pick-up warranty (epson will themselves come and pick up the projector)

it will be interesting to see how it performs, i owned a Z3 before.

and i also agree that projector central dont give the best reviews if you want details.

good sources of reviews are

CKL
Cine4home
Projector reviews
Ultimate AV
Widescreen review

however it is pretty clear that the HS60 vill kick D5 ass, and thats a second time for sony :D

Clear to who?

i base that on CKL review an others here in sweden that have seen the HS60, it seems once again that black-level and contrast will be of much difference between HS60 and D5.

however we will see after the annual shootout here in sweden where 14 of hottest PJ will be up (18 to 20 november)

amongst them

WV100
the first 1080p DLP
HS60
all of the D5
H79
mitsu HC3000
LG AN110
Toshiba MT400
etc.

maybe even blueray will be up for demo probably with the WV100 :p

after this shootout there will be many opinions on how HS60 stack up against D5

Australian RRP

SONY VPL-HS60 $3,499

PANASONIC PT-AE900E $3,899

SANYO PLV-Z4 $3,995


Agressive pricing by Sony on RRP. Will need to wait for Sony release in November to check street prices.

Cheers!

WV100
the first 1080p DLP
HS60
all of the D5
H79
mitsu HC3000
LG AN110
Toshiba MT400
etc.


no hitachi? :(

no hitachi? :(

if you mean Hitahci TX200, it will of course be there, i put it under the category "all of the D5" meaning TW600/Z4/900/TX200

it will be a heck of an shootout, and last year HS50 stole the show, shall be interesting to see how HS60 performs.

Australian RRP

SONY VPL-HS60 $3,499

PANASONIC PT-AE900E $3,899

SANYO PLV-Z4 $3,995


Agressive pricing by Sony on RRP. Will need to wait for Sony release in November to check street prices.

Cheers!

It will be hard to believe HS60 will be lower than Sanyo n Panny, since both of their retail prices in Japan n HK are about half of the Sony. If your indication is true, I should send you some Panny n Sanyo units, in exchange for the Sony. We should both make a lot of money.

I agree with AC888. The Sony will NEVER be cheaper than the AE900/Z4.
Even the Sony HS-51 was in another class of its own compared to the AE700/Z3.

Send me the Sony HS-60 and I will give you AE900/Z4's in return. :D

hs60/61 is gonna to smack these other pj's like little beatches lol , sometimes im such a sony dork :) ;) cant wait to get the hs61 when it hits us shores next year, --jeff

Look at some Australian websites if you don't believe me.

But is the HS60 better than the others? The CKL report with the picture of the color (non) uniformity didn't look good.

yup the Sony HS60 price has been released in Australia already....and it is CHEAPER than the AE900, Z4, Benq 7700 etc.

Very unusual for Sony to be so aggressive pricewise. Great for the Consumer though : =)

Looking at the price in Japan, its much more than Sony Australia's Price. Will be interesting to see what it ends up being in other countries.

Guys, price discussions include overseas pricing. So let's drop it now.

Guys, price discussions include overseas pricing. So let's drop it now.

You must be kidding...whats wrong with talking about MSRP and price points of new product. Your title of the forum implies price for goodness sakes. Us in the real world would like to know the price of this animal...much like all of the sticky notes posted about the MSRP of competing models.

no disrespect madpoet but i thought we were all allowed to talk msrp?????? just not street pricing?????? did the rules change? thanks jeff

Guys, price discussions include overseas pricing. So let's drop it now.

Please excuse us. We are just talking Mfg. suggested retail in general n even no figures are mentioned.

yup the Sony HS60 price has been released in Australia already....and it is CHEAPER than the AE900, Z4, Benq 7700 etc.

Very unusual for Sony to be so aggressive pricewise. Great for the Consumer though : =)

Looking at the price in Japan, its much more than Sony Australia's Price. Will be interesting to see what it ends up being in other countries.


Of course, I believe you guys in Australia. So, my only clue is the units are all made there, in order to get such a low price.

Just wonder who the hell will buy those D5 units in Australia !!!

Also curious why no Australia user comment on their HS60 since the model had been released there !!!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

And MSRP bears little relation to street prices, so the Sony may in the end cost more to buy then the others.

Of course, I believe you guys in Australia. So, my only clue is the units are all made there, in order to get such a low price.

Just wonder who the hell will buy those D5 units in Australia !!!

Also curious why no Australia user comment on their HS60 since the model had been released there !!!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I assume the prices quoted are Aussie dollars?

I'll definitely buy one once I get back to Oz - Have to put up with 2 weeks in Koh Samui first though !
My son checking on availability -will advise
HS50 great projector- HS60 hope the bar has been lifted

Sony HS-60 is not yet available. Expected second week November.

You must be kidding...whats wrong with talking about MSRP and price points of new product. Your title of the forum implies price for goodness sakes. Us in the real world would like to know the price of this animal...much like all of the sticky notes posted about the MSRP of competing models.

Read the forum rules. We've stated the MSRP in U.S. dollars, which is what this forum is based on. Discusssions around overseas pricing, U.S. street pricing, etc; are not allowed. Take it somewhere else, such as the paid members forums. That's what they are there for. I don't care about general "X is cheaper than Y in Australia" posts. Just leave the actual dollars/yen/whateve out of it.

"We've stated the MSRP in U.S. dollars, which is what this forum is based on. Discusssions around overseas pricing, U.S. street pricing, etc; are not allowed."

I thought the point of $US was just to translate the price, not to restrict discussion to what's sold within U.S. borders, which seems rather parochial, not to say not in keeping with the international nature of the AVS membership.

Umm... huh? Now you've completely lost me. Let me say this one more time, plain and I hope simple... just stop discussing actual prices. That simple. Don't do it. The rules tell you not to do it if you'd read them. So don't. Otherwise this thread WILL get shut down.

-MP

Noah: Are you asking why we couldn't discuss MRSP that pertain other countries, regardless of currency or are you saying what's wrong with street price discussions as long as they are outside US? If it's the former I would agree but if it's the latter it seems to me that street price is street price regardless of location or currency and is therefore out of bounds. Mind you I have not read the rules recently.

Read the forum rules. We've stated the MSRP in U.S. dollars, which is what this forum is based on. Discusssions around overseas pricing, U.S. street pricing, etc; are not allowed. Take it somewhere else, such as the paid members forums. That's what they are there for. I don't care about general "X is cheaper than Y in Australia" posts. Just leave the actual dollars/yen/whateve out of it.

Here is the paste of the forum rules:

No discussion of dealer sales prices is allowed--period. You can talk about manufacturer's suggested retail pricing (MSRP) information, but please do not post the price for which a dealer is selling a projector or how much you paid for your projector... even if it's the same or higher price as the MSRP. We have a "Price Search" feature located at the top of the forum if you want to search for sales prices. (Many people have asked why this rule is in place. The answer is simple: Alan Gouger and David Bott, the owners of this website, also run a dealership for home theater equipment. Discussing sales prices for their competitors in this forum amounts to subsidized advertising for their competition.)

Sorry, but I don't get it. MSRP means manufacturer suggested retail price. There is no rule that I can see that rules out discussing foreign market retail pricing. What's the big deal anyway?

Please clarify the position or post what I am not finding in the forum rules.

Guys, price discussions include overseas pricing. So let's drop it now.

What's wrong with:

MSRP US$2450 which is approx.:

Yen 269,500
NT 63.700
Won 2,940,000
Peso 66,150
Baht 73,500
RMB 197,225
...

Besides, I am not a "guy" so I can do whatever I want, right, Madpoet?
You need to relax a little bit more. :D :D :D

Nothing... except of course that we don't HAVE an MSRP in the U.S. because it's not released here. And I'm not going to spend all day chasing down whether what someone posts is in fact the MSRP or the MAP of a projector in Zimbabwe. I'm giving you leeway here. I'm dsaying you can discuss them relative to other projectors, such as "Here in the U.K. the Sony HS60 is cheaper than the AE900." What I don't want is "Here in the U.K. the Sony HS60 is 2000 pounds" or "Here in the U.K. the Sony is 300 pounds cheaper than the AE900". So I'm asking that you respect that fact and keep the discussion general, not specific.

Genarally speaking...is it cheaper for me to buy this projector in Japan, Australia, or Sweden...and by what percentage? All of my money is tied up in Benjamins so I wold like to know what the MSRP is in those.

Genarally speaking...is it cheaper for me to buy this projector in Japan, Australia, or Sweden...and by what percentage? All of my money is tied up in Benjamins so I wold like to know what the MSRP is in those.

When one factors in service backup..................best purchase in the country of residence, unless the savings are big enough to cover shipping back to the country of purchase if a repair is required under warrantee.

Thanks ;)

Ok guys. Now I'm going to have to close this thread unless you keep discussion on topic. Don't make me open a more emphatic "No Price Discussion" Sticky...

"Noah: Are you asking why we couldn't discuss MRSP that pertain other countries, regardless of currency"

Yes

Dusk!...Wait!
I'll change the subject!
I have not read through this whole thread (I have seen quite a bit) because the thing is freakin huge,and I'm sorry if I missed this because I probably have, but is there an actual release date for this pj yet? I've been researching pj's for many many months now and I somehow missed the sony hs51, I've recently learned about it and then learned this one is coming soon to a theater near me. Needless to say, I'm very interested(although I read a review that the new iris sometimes gets "confused" and the image can look like it's flashing for a split second).

If I was just purchasing "specs" then this the Sony HS-60 is the one. Can't wait until it is reviewed. :D

Sony UK HS-60 Page:
http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProduct.action?product=VPL-HS60&site=odw_en_GB&pageType=TechnicalSpecs&category=TVP+Home+Cinema+Projector

Sony Japenese Press Release - (google translation of the page):
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.sony.jp/pr/whats/w_050906.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Press/200509/05-0906/%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2004-46,GGLD:en

but is there an actual release date for this pj yet?

from what I read there won't be a US model

I find it difficult to believe that Sony will skip the entire US market for this product. The HS51 is already being officially discounted - a practice Sony rarely engages in unless a replacement product will be introduced.

Perhaps Sony just wants the big press in the US to be about the Ruby. Lacking an official statement that the HS60 will not ship in the US, until the Ruby begins shipping in quantity, and the HS60 actually begins shipping abroad, I think it's too early to assume that the US won't see the HS60(61).

Pip

The HS-60 will hit US shores in January. I am sure we'll hear a lot about it at CES.

Kris is correct about the january release (ill be first in line to pick it up) The only if is what it will be called-- vpl-hs60, vpl-hs61, vpl-hs51a or something else. I think they should just call it vpl-badmofo. :) jeff

So I may be misunderstanding here, but this thing is already available overseas?
Can it be imported or is that a bad idea in the pj world?

I believe the new Sony HS-60 will not be a drastic change but will be an upgrade similar to the Panny AE900 and Sanyo Z4 over the AE700/Z3.

The Sony is still ahead of either one with a price tag to follow. :)

With the Blackness level getting as good as DLP, almost free of VB or FPN, no rainbow problem like DLP, I personally think HS60 is as good a deal you can get, especially if you are upgrading from the Panny n Sanyo. Compare to those expensive DLP, the Sony can be considered cheap.

Just make sure you don't sit closer than 1.5-2.0x the screen width. The screen door effect is significant. (I'm at 1,5 and it didn't cut it for me...)

NilsP

I get a feeling this is going to be one hell of a projector for the money......as long as one is happy sitting 2x screen widths away and content with a screen size around 100" or smaller

Just make sure you don't sit closer than 1.5-2.0x the screen width. The screen door effect is significant. (I'm at 1,5 and it didn't cut it for me...)

NilsP

I sat 12ft. from a 90" 16x9 screen n see absolutely no screendoor effect on the HS50, unless the 60 screws it up somewhere else.

The "high contrast plate" responsible for lowering the black levels also makes the interpixel gaps darker according to some reports. So screen door may be more noticeable on the HS60.

The "high contrast plate" responsible for lowering the black levels also makes the interpixel gaps darker according to some reports. So screen door may be more noticeable on the HS60.

What reports? - The only ones that I have seen have been on pre-production models. That is why we are all waitng for the US model to be released. I would expect Sony to get it right by the time for the HS-6__? is available in the US.

Talking about seeing an actual HS60, since the report of CKL on 10/7, the demo unit should be travelling from countries to countries, to give dealer or importer a prior viewing of the new unit. However, we have not heard any reviewer mentioning about this model for the last 3 weeks.

Also, the release date in HK has been moved back to mid-Nov. from mid-Oct.. Is it possible that Sony is fixing the Iris problem that CKL mention ?

Sony could be in fact trying to fix problems as they continually receive feedback from these demo's.

What reports? - The only ones that I have seen have been on pre-production models. That is why we are all waitng for the US model to be released. I would expect Sony to get it right by the time for the HS-6__? is available in the US.

Re SDE see here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6245384&&#post6245384

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6252366&&#post6252366

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6257531&&#post6257531

As you say these are all pre-production reports, hopefully most of the reported negative issues will be addressed prior to final release. :)

Anybody know what the fan noise is like? The UK Sony website says 23db, but a UK dealer site says 33db. (Dealtime UK)
I hate fan noise (the projector is usually 3 feet away from my head) and am looking at a Z4 specifically due to the low noise.
Am considering waiting for the HS-60 if it is 23db, but if it is 33db, forget about it! ;)

Anybody know what the fan noise is like? The UK Sony website says 23db, but a UK dealer site says 33db. (Dealtime UK)
I hate fan noise (the projector is usually 3 feet away from my head) and am looking at a Z4 specifically due to the low noise.
Am considering waiting for the HS-60 if it is 23db, but if it is 33db, forget about it! ;)

You can forget about any pj at 1 meter. Try a hushbox.

Don't think I can do a hushbox without major work (projector sits in a nook - no where to vent the air without tearing into walls)... I have a 4805 right now... noise is an issue... I know it will always be, but want to minimize it since I can't do a hush box.

Just use some logic here. While everybody is putting out 20-something db projector, why would Sony bring out a 30-something db projector now.

They will only inflate Contrast ratio, not on Noise level !!!

:D :D :D

Noise level of the fan varies in different mode. The 22-23 db noise level from Sony or Sanyo should be under the low lamp/ cinema mode. So, is it noisy in normal or dynamic(high) lamp mode acceptable? I think you have to hear for yourself when HS-60 is out for demo and make the decision.....

I hope that is the case! Just don't want to wait on the Sony if it is noisy. Under full power, the new Mits HC3000U is 31db... AE900 is 28db... so people are still putting out projector's near 30db. The Sanyo is supposedly 22db (haven't heard in person, but the pre-release reviews seem to bear out that the Sanyo is quietest).
Anyway, if anyone has first hand knowledge, please let me know! If it is 23db instead of 33db, I will wait...

I have a Sony HS-51 and the projector is quiet. It is listed at 24db. I sit directly in front of the projector -- maybe about 3 meet (1 meter) away. I am not bothered at all (but I'm not that sensitive to it either).

I would have to guess that the HS-61 would be similar to the HS-51. My guess would be that the 23db would make more sense than the 33db. But, that is only a guess based upon the previous model.

I agree, I actually got to view an HS-51 for a couple of hours tonight and I was impressed. I went over to a guy's house that has owned his own ht store for 15 years and the HS-51 is his personal pj. This is the only pj he carries in this price range. I know we're not talking about the 51 but if the 60 is anything like it, then i'm in. I sat 12' away, directly under the unit, projected on a 96" screen. I heard nothing coming from the pj. We even turned down the sound for awhile to talk about settings and what not, and I couldn't even hear it running at all. As far as sde goes, the only time I saw it was when watching a standard 480 dvd signal with component cables, and it was rare, I was actually suprised at how good the image looked. When he switched to hd, the difference was still great. NO SDE, in hd this thing looked like a plasma, I had to walk up to about 1' to 2' from the screen before I could see the sde. Contrast was great, colors were great, and blacks were great or should I say black. Sorry for my personal mini review of the 51, but if they have improved upon this pj, then it's going to be kick-ass.

In "normal" mode I can't hear the fan of the HS51 sitting 1 meter underneath it. In "high power" mode (which I use for daytime watching, I *can* hear the fan. It is audible, but since I only use high power mode for watching sports it doesn't get in the way.

The fan noise from high power mode would bother me if I was watching a movie in the dark and trying for the full cinematic experience.

CKL you must be the only guy on the web that has seen HS60, AE900, & Z4! Boy you must be popular...

Pls help - I have a great problem: I'm about to buy HS60 or AE900. (The Sony will cost me $200AUD more but that is offset by 1 year extra warranty - so price is not an issue). What to buy?

Seating 14-16' from 100" screen. Have a light controlled room, but would also love to be able to leave the doors open when mates come over to watch footy.

Concerns:
SDE on HS60 (I suspect its paranoia - 2x width is 13' - but there is some alarm out their on HS60's pixel grid)?
Lack of luminance on HS60 with doors open?
Lower contrast on AE900 making for washed out picture with doors open?
Picture Quality
Overall Quality

If I may ask - which would you buy with this info?

Thanks
JAGMAN

If the HS60 only cost $200AUD more where you are, it is a no-brainer. The Sony cost $2000AUD more than AE900 in HK, but I still decide to pick up the HS60, which I saw it at the Sony show last night.

Australian wholesale price on the AE900 seems to be slightly lower, so the higher SRRP would be Panasonic cashing in on the AE700's reputation, + having got to market first. From Sony's side the lower SRRP must be a statement of serious intent to take market share. IMHO.

Wo, sorry, newbie mistake. Didn't read right through pages 7 & 8 of thread. Will knock off talk of price.

Jagman, have you read CKL's reviews@avbuzz.

Just my .02cents worth....

If I were in your shoes.....2x gain screen & HS60 :D.......and sit 2 screen widths away!(Check first if Sony has addressed the iris issue on production units)

Jagman, if I were you, the Sony would be a no brainer for just a tad little bit more of AUD.

Do anybody know how to get to service menu of HS50 or 60 ?

I think it's ENTER ENTER UP ENTER

Do anybody know how to get to service menu of HS50 or 60 ?

enter, enter, up, down, enter. For the HS-51 for sure.

enter, enter, up, down, enter. For the HS-51 for sure.

This is the same for my 10HT so Sony has kept it the same for many years now.

Shelly

enter, enter, up, down, enter. For the HS-51 for sure.

Thanks. However, I cannot get the new HS60 sync with my Marantz 7600 on HDMI connection. The cable setup is the same as I demo HS50 n Sharp Z2000 n AE900 in my house, just don't why it did not work now. Very disappointed.

Later this afternoon I went to the shop that I bought my projector n loan out some new DVI/HDMI adaptors as well as HDMI/HDMI cable. The result is still the same. So, I need to exchange another unit tomorrow.

P.S. Other video inputs OK.

enter, enter, up, down, enter. For the HS-51 for sure.

Thanks. However, I cannot get the new HS60 sync with my Marantz 7600 on HDMI connection. The cable setup is the same as I demo HS50 n Sharp Z2000 n AE900 in my house, just don't why it did not work now. Very disappointed.

Later this afternoon I went to the shop that I bought my projector n loan out some new DVI/HDMI adaptors as well as HDMI/HDMI cable. The result is still the same. So, I need to exchange another unit tomorrow.

P.S. Other video inputs OK.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Thanks. However, I cannot get the new HS60 sync with my Marantz 7600 on HDMI connection. The cable setup is the same as I demo HS50 n Sharp Z2000 n AE900 in my house, just don't why it did not work now. Very disappointed.

Later this afternoon I went to the shop that I bought my projector n loan out some new DVI/HDMI adaptors as well as HDMI/HDMI cable. The result is still the same. So, I need to exchange another unit tomorrow.

P.S. Other video inputs OK.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

According to CKL's report, the HS60 won't sync @ 48Hz, but ok at 50 & 60Hz.......I guess you are after 50Hz

CKL you must be the only guy on the web that has seen HS60, AE900, & Z4! Boy you must be popular...

Pls help - I have a great problem: I'm about to buy HS60 or AE900. (The Sony will cost me $200AUD more but that is offset by 1 year extra warranty - so price is not an issue). What to buy?

Seating 14-16' from 100" screen. Have a light controlled room, but would also love to be able to leave the doors open when mates come over to watch footy.

Concerns:
SDE on HS60 (I suspect its paranoia - 2x width is 13' - but there is some alarm out their on HS60's pixel grid)?
Lack of luminance on HS60 with doors open?
Lower contrast on AE900 making for washed out picture with doors open?
Picture Quality
Overall Quality

If I may ask - which would you buy with this info?

Thanks
JAGMAN

I think HS60 is classified at different grade from AE900, Z4 or TW600. HS60 shows the cleanest picture among most digital projectors. Your viewing distance is OK for HS60 to eliminate its screen doors. At 100inch screen, I think you better choose a screen with 1.3-1.5 gain. The overall picture quality from HS60 is no doubt better than other 720P LCD projectors.


I almost order HS60 after watching it. But at my 1.8x viewing distance, the visible screen doors is the weakness.

I almost order HS60 after watching it. But at my 1.8x viewing distance, the visible screen doors is the weakness.

OK, if I have a 100" screen then 1,8x100"=180", that's apprx 4,6 meters distance from the screen. To my knowledge very few sit further away than 4,6 meter from a 100" screen, I sit at 4,5 meter. Hence, the HS60 is not for me and most others that sit at 1,8x or closer....?

Different people have various sensitivity and tolerance to the SDE. You better watch it at the same distance ratio in dealer's showroom.

OK, if I have a 100" screen then 1,8x100"=180", that's apprx 4,6 meters distance from the screen. To my knowledge very few sit further away than 4,6 meter from a 100" screen, I sit at 4,5 meter. Hence, the HS60 is not for me and most others that sit at 1,8x or closer....?


Refering to HS-51: SDE isn't horrible at 1.75x screen width. It is noticable on brighter scenes if you look for it, but just watch the movie not the flaws.
The VB bothers me more than the SDE.
Consider a IMX lens if SDE is that bad of an issue.

Take heed to CKL's advice, personal experience means more than opinion.

Different people have various sensitivity and tolerance to the SDE. You better watch it at the same distance ratio in dealer's showroom.

I would not take the word of one reviewer who has only seen a pre-production model for anything. The pre-production product may have a number of charactertics that may not make it into production. I recommend everyone to take a deep breath and see what the US version will offer and what the consensus is from a variety of sources including your own good senses. The previous Sony models have been available at local dealers for comparsion; I assume that the HS-60/61 will be no different.

Please note that there is only one review (worldwide) posted on the net - does that fact raise any eyebrows? That review was done in September 2005 - comprare that to number of reviews being posted on the Panasonic AE900 or the Sanyo Z-4. I would think that we will need to wait until after the CES in January 2006 to see what the Sony is offering.

I am definitely considering the Sony once it becomes available; but I definitely will not buy it if I can see SDE at 1.5x the screen width. (For the Sony reps who may read this post.)

Then I would almost bet you won't be buying it.

Refering to HS-51: SDE isn't horrible at 1.75x screen width. It is noticable on brighter scenes if you look for it, but just watch the movie not the flaws.
The VB bothers me more than the SDE.
Consider a IMX lens if SDE is that bad of an issue.

Take heed to CKL's advice, personal experience means more than opinion.

I don't think I've ever talked to anyone that has had a VB issue with the HS-51. Are you saying that your PJ has it? I have owned two HS-51's and neither showed even the slightest trace of it.

.......I am definitely considering the Sony once it becomes available; but I definitely will not buy it if I can see SDE at 1.5x the screen width....

You may be better off looking at the AE900 or Z4 as they look better at 1.5x or less screen length.

I don't think I've ever talked to anyone that has had a VB issue with the HS-51. Are you saying that your PJ has it? I have owned two HS-51's and neither showed even the slightest trace of it.


It seems more noticable in the middle of the screen (I always look at the top 2ft) and then I can see it to the left and right . Hard to tell, you almost think your eyes are playing tricks on you, so it's faint about 2.5ft from the center. Maybe it's a bad ground, I may test a "filter" on the PJ sometime.
Once I noticed the VB I thought it was the Draper 1300 screen, until I cleaned it off and it was still there.

It bothers me more than the SDE which is 10x better than the local cinema.

Then I would almost bet you won't be buying it.

Exactly why is that? I just prefer to make the decision when I get the see the HS-60 for myself. One advantage by that time the other LCD's will have no doubt dropped in price.