I tried the 480i,720p hdmi direct mode to Marantz S4 projector . Everything works fine except 12bits 480i hdmi . The colour is out . 12bits on 480p and 720p is fine though . What do you mean the by "colour is out"?

larry

Jason: Are you using a 989 or 79?

Just got mine over the weekend in Asia ;) .

I used to own a Pioneer 737 model a few years back when I decided to jump on the DVI-equipped player bandwagon, the earliest such player I believe, was the Samsung HD-931. I also played with a Momitsu 880 whose DVI connection died on me, and I was forced to return to Samsung.

And now I welcome the Return of the Pioneer :D !

I considered the Marantz DV-9500 and the Denon 3910 but still went back to Pioneer.

Strangely enough the remote control seems to be exactly the same on both the old 737 & new 989 :confused:

Also, what kind of power connector does the Elite 79 have? The only crack in the 989's really heavy and shining armor was its measly S-type power connector...

However, the video and audio performance I got is just spectacular (hooked up to brand new Epson TW-600 and Marantz 8500 AV receiver :cool: .)

Overall really happy with price/performance ratio!

What do you mean the by "colour is out"?

larry

It is like when you tried VGA signal to component input of a display . The colourspace is wrong . I have tried forcing the S4 to accept RGB,YCbCr,YPbPr but the result is still the same . Green picture :( Will try again with bettercables hdmi cable . And maybe when I receive my vantage HD :p

480i hdmi from pioneer 989 is 720 x 480i this time so Marantz S4 can accept .

Jason: Are you using a 989 or 79?

I am using the Asia version 989 .

I did not do much testing on the pioneer 989 because I am waiting for the vantage HD to pair with it .

Gennum chip inside Marantz S4 fail HQV test disc jaggies test 2 and cadence tests. There is a strange finding, 480i hdmi direct mode to S4 looks bad . There is visible vertical lines on some moving objects on the background of a scene . Maybe it is Gennum fault or pioneer error ? Will confirm it again using Vantage HD to test . 480p and 720p from pioneer 989 do not has this problem bypassing the Gennum chip in S4.

Component 480i to S4 also no problem . Oh yes ,Pioneer 989 component 480i has chroma delay but it can be solved by adjusting the internal settings.

I did not do much testing on the pioneer 989 because I am waiting for the vantage HD to pair with it .

Gennum chip inside Marantz S4 fail HQV test disc jaggies test 2 and cadence tests. There is a strange finding, 480i hdmi direct mode to S4 looks bad . There is visible vertical lines on some moving objects on the background of a scene . Maybe it is Gennum fault or pioneer error ? Will confirm it again using Vantage HD to test . 480p and 720p from pioneer 989 do not has this problem bypassing the Gennum chip in S4.

Component 480i to S4 also no problem . Oh yes ,Pioneer 989 component 480i has chroma delay but it can be solved by adjusting the internal settings.

Is the chroma delay adjustment finer on the 989/79ai than the integer one on the 969/59avi? I saw the 59's was pretty much useless because the increment of change was too large.

I do not have a 969/59 but the adjustment on 989/79 is fine/minor step increment.

I do not have a 969/59 but the adjustment on 989/79 is fine/minor step increment.

Opps , I will double check again today . Actually I use S4 to adjust the chroma delay :p

Opps , I will double check again today . Actually I use S4 to adjust the chroma delay :p

Doh! :)

Thanks.

The only crack in the 989's really heavy and shining armor was its measly S-type power connector...

The 59AVi (and 47Ai too) has a heavy duty detachable 2 conductor cord. Maybe the 989 is different?

Can this player be made region free without a hardware mod?

It is like when you tried VGA signal to component input of a display . The colourspace is wrong . I have tried forcing the S4 to accept RGB,YCbCr,YPbPr but the result is still the same . Green picture :( Will try again with bettercables hdmi cable . And maybe when I receive my vantage HD :p

480i hdmi from pioneer 989 is 720 x 480i this time so Marantz S4 can accept . This is mostly guessing, but 480i from the player should be more or less "raw". Data coming out of the MPEG decoder is YCbCr 4:2:2 8bit (maybe 10bit). I'd imagine the extra bits would come during deinterlacing/scaling because the video needed can be used to "fill out" the extra bits, especially during scaling. The key thing would be that the 480i is "correct" (what's on the disc) YCbCr 4:2:2 and let the downstream processor do the rest. So what you saw may not be a "problem". Maybe they should not have allowed you to select 12bit for 480i.

larry

The 59AVi (and 47Ai too) has a heavy duty detachable 2 conductor cord. Maybe the 989 is different?


The 79AVi also has a heavy duty detachable 2 conductor cord...

when is this unit going to be readily available? as in show up on pricegrabber, crutchfield, sites like that? any word?

Can this player be made region free without a hardware mod?

I'm wondering about that as well since a good deal of my DVD collection is from other regions. I have PAL discs in the mix as well so I'm assuming I will need to use a video processor to get playback on my NTSC display.

JVB Digital does region free (selectable) modifications to the 59AVI, so I'm assuming they will be able to eventually do the same for the 79AVI.

I understand that the 989 is region free, but I don't know if it is region selectable though (which is a must as well). I don't mind if I have to have a hardware mod performed though, as long as it can be done.

I checked JVB Digital out and they've added the 79AVI to their list of region free mods.

Looks like I know what to save up for now.

Just bought one from Magnolia (Santa Rosa, CA). Will have it on Thursday.

I have a Pio plasma and will see how the 480i via HDMI looks. Currently have the Onkyo SP-1000 as my reference.

marty

Just bought one from Magnolia (Santa Rosa, CA). Will have it on Thursday. I have a Pio plasma and will see how the 480i via HDMI looks. Currently have the Onkyo SP-1000 as my reference. -- martyMarty -- I am just south of you and had looked at Magnolia some weeks back. They never called back, so I've never pursued buying the 79AVi through them. Would you mind telling me what they charged you? Thanks...

Marty -- I am just south of you and had looked at Magnolia some weeks back. They never called back, so I've never pursued buying the 79AVi through them. Would you mind telling me what they charged you? Thanks...


just PM'd you.

marty

just PM'd you. -- martyGotcha -- thanks!

marty - congratulations. Please make sure to post any differences (good or bad) you find between it and the Onkyo. That will be a very interesting comparison (be careful not to start any fires!).

What's the practical difference between "Region Free" and "Region Selectable"?

I think RCE discs require the player to be a specific region only. A region selectable player can be used to simply switch the region to the desired one.

A region free dvd player may need this feature for RCE discs.

Region coding sucks.

Strangely the Pioneer dvd players sold in Australia are usually region free.

So it is possible the region free mod is s/w only ? Then JVB digital's price is too much.

Also Pioneer 59avi played PAL/NTSC - though did not do conversion.

So JVB digital's description that 79avi says "Due to hardware/software limitations this player can not play PAL material, it will only accept NTSC"

That is strange.

Doh! :)

Thanks.

Confirm only minor increment on the chroma delay .

This is mostly guessing, but 480i from the player should be more or less "raw". Data coming out of the MPEG decoder is YCbCr 4:2:2 8bit (maybe 10bit). I'd imagine the extra bits would come during deinterlacing/scaling because the video needed can be used to "fill out" the extra bits, especially during scaling. The key thing would be that the 480i is "correct" (what's on the disc) YCbCr 4:2:2 and let the downstream processor do the rest. So what you saw may not be a "problem". Maybe they should not have allowed you to select 12bit for 480i.

larry

Maybe we shall wait for Kris report on this issue :) By the way , hdmi 480i to S4 looks bad .

Jason.

I'm not sure, but I think the S4 is having problems with 480i over HDMI. You should check with Marantz. I think there is a new firmware to help with that problem. I could be mistaken tough.

A straight region free DVDplayer will play RCE disc with no problems, You dont need to have region select to play them.

As far as i know the pioneers multiregion unlock is a straight firmware change by disc and takes all of 2 mins.

Confirm only minor increment on the chroma delay .

Thank you, that is good to hear. I'm liking what I've been hearing about these different little improvements.

anywhere online can this be ordered?

anywhere online can this be ordered?

You can try froogle. I don't know when those two companies will have them in stock. I think audiogon is a good place to look as well. Keep in mind the "authorized dealer" issue.

Jason.

I'm not sure, but I think the S4 is having problems with 480i over HDMI. You should check with Marantz. I think there is a new firmware to help with that problem. I could be mistaken tough.

Hi LEVESQUE ,
My S4 already upgraded to the latest firmware . I am going to test the Marantz 9600 480i hdmi when my dealer get it . Will see if it is Gennum processing problem or error from pioneer 989/79. After watching a few DVDs with pioneer989/79 , I can still see some problems like wavy scanning lines on far edge objects once in a while . I am using 720p hdmi from the DVD player now and bypass Gennum chip .

(PS: My Denon 5910/A1XV do not has that problem on those scenes)

Jason

I'm very keen to hear how the 79AVI/989 and the 9600 compare - I look forward to reading your comments. Do you know of any reputable internet dealers in Singapore who will ship overseas. I live in Japan and while I can buy all these products here they are all locked to region 2 and dealers refuse to help convert them to multiregion. I have voltage converters for other gagets so that is no problem.

Hi Couj , I believe 989/79 and Marantz 9600 PQ is similar . What I really want to find out is the 480i hdmi output . Will let you know when I have the chance to test out 9600 .

I do not there is any internet dealers in Singapore that sell DVD players, sorry.

Thanks Jason.

Hi LEVESQUE ,
My S4 already upgraded to the latest firmware . I am going to test the Marantz 9600 480i hdmi when my dealer get it . Will see if it is Gennum processing problem or error from pioneer 989/79. After watching a few DVDs with pioneer989/79 , I can still see some problems like wavy scanning lines on far edge objects once in a while

I'm using my 79AVi at 480i over HDMI to my IScan HD+ w/o any problem. I was also able to try it with a pre-production Realta HQV scaler and it was working perfectly with 480i over HDMI from the 79AVi.

So I really think that the culprit in your situation is the Gennum scaler in the Marantz.

I'm using my 79AVi at 480i over HDMI to my IScan HD+ w/o any problem. I was also able to try it with a pre-production Realta HQV scaler and it was working perfectly with 480i over HDMI from the 79AVi.Any chance the "pre-production Realta HQV scaler" is named after an insect and produced by a Canadian company? If so, I'd love to hear more, via thread or PM, if you could elaborate on how well this theoretical combo works...

Any chance the "pre-production Realta HQV scaler" is named after an insect and produced by a Canadian company

Good try. :D

Good try. :DIt was worth a shot, eh?
;)

Does the 79AVi have the same external dimensions as the 59AVi? Just wondering if I'll need a new custom Middle Atlantic rack face for it, or if it will fit the one I currently have for the 59.

I just got word from my Magnolia guy (San Ramon, CA) they recieved 30 79Avi's today.... I'm going to pickup mine tonight!!!! :D :D :D

Well let us know when you get it switchedon

;)

E

Switchedon, come in switchedon, over.

Mfb, comparison to sp1000 would be nice.

What's up Levesque?
You haven't given up on the D2 have you?

What's up Levesque?
You haven't given up on the D2 have you?

No. :D

I'm just "playing" with a Pioneer Elite 74TXVi right now. It's really nice to use the ilink connection with the 79AVi and MCACC.

I see both black and silver versions of the new DV-79AVi showing up on EBay already :)

Cross posted on the other 79 thread.

Picked mine up yesterday. Watched some quick scenes from 5th element and Gladiator via 480i to my Pio1110. Out of box looks pretty good. Audio is connected with i.Link for now (no issues with the RDC 7.1). I'll be running DVE and HQV discs tonight.

I'll post back with more details.

marty

This player is outstanding! :D

Watched some of Spiderman2 and Shrek.....listend to Weezer...I was up all night.

It came with a 1394 cable so I'm using that until my Audioquest 1394-3 comes in, and for video, HDMI of course switched throught my 74TXVi.

It came with a 1394 cable so I'm using that until my Audioquest 1394-3 comes in, and for video, HDMI of course switched throught my 74TXVi. Wow, that's a lot of scratch for a 1394 cable. They're like DVI cables, they either work or they don't. If the one you have works, I'd keep it and spend the rest on movies.

larry

Are you setting the 79AVi to the 12bit component over 480i HDMI mode or are you using the 8 bit mode? Any difference in pic quality with the IScan with the 2 modes?

jcg

I'm using my 79AVi at 480i over HDMI to my IScan HD+ w/o any problem. I was also able to try it with a pre-production Realta HQV scaler and it was working perfectly with 480i over HDMI from the 79AVi.

So I really think that the culprit in your situation is the Gennum scaler in the Marantz.

Are you setting the 79AVi to the 12bit component over 480i HDMI mode or are you using the 8 bit mode? Any difference in pic quality with the IScan with the 2 modes?


No. When using HDMI, you can't choose between 12-bit and 8-bit, but only betwen RGB vs Full Range RGB. 12-bit vs 8-bit is for component only.

I'm using the 79AVi at 480i over HDMI to the IScan HD+.

No. When using HDMI, you can't choose between 12-bit and 8-bit, but only betwen RGB vs Full Range RGB. 12-bit vs 8-bit is for component only.

I'm using the 79AVi at 480i over HDMI to the IScan HD+.

Which RGB are you using and what impact does it have with DVI video and DVI computer on the Iscan HD+?

I have my dv-79avi connected to an 1130 and IR RDC 7.1 using HDMI and firewire.

The picture is a huge improvement over my HDMI Sony DVD/CD player and the audio is an even greater improvement. Im sending 480i to the 1130. Ive watched the several action and music DVDs and the picture and sound are just a hug improvement over what I was used to. I guess in some circumstances you get what you pay for. My previous Sony (although it did 480i over HDMI) was $199.

Im having one problem which Im not sure if its the 79avi or the RDC 7.1 but when I play SACDs, there is no center channel. Ive posted in a couple forums trying to figure the problem out. On my previous CD/DVD player, I was using analog 5.1 connections for the SACD.

John

See page 72 & 73 of the 79AVi manual. There is both an 8 bit and 12 bit component mode (along with the RGB modes) for HDMI. It was also discussed a few pages back in this thread, but no real answer has been given about whehter the picture gets better. So if you can test it out with the iScan that would be great to get your impressions. Also if you read back on the other posts someone made the comment that the 12 bit mode may come into effect for 480p and above, and may not be applicable to 480i over HDMI. Again no clear answer about whether this is right/wrong, so it would be nice to get to the bottom of this.

jcg

No. When using HDMI, you can't choose between 12-bit and 8-bit, but only betwen RGB vs Full Range RGB. 12-bit vs 8-bit is for component only.

I'm using the 79AVi at 480i over HDMI to the IScan HD+.

As the subject states, I picked up a Pioneer 79avi in silver today. I was heavily leaning towards a Denon 3910 due to the fact that I already have a Denon 3805 receiver. The possibility of using Denon Link was very tempting. However, after reading some comments from the forum stating that analog was better for SACD's and DVD-A's on the 3910, Denon Link didn't look so tempting anymore. I have a feeling that the 3910 might still be better audio player than the 79avi through analog, but I got a great deal on the 79avi. After getting a qoute over the phone from an authorized dealer without any haggling whatsoever, I left the house and had the player in my hand within 30 minutes. I seriously almost went with the 3910. My local Good Guys is going out of business and everything is 30-50% off. They had a black 3910 in stock, but I really wanted it in silver. I'm glad I held off on the 3910.

Time to start playing with the 79avi. :-)

See page 72 & 73 of the 79AVi manual. There is both an 8 bit and 12 bit component mode (along with the RGB modes) for HDMI.

jcg

You are mixing things up. HDMI and component are 2 different connections.

If using the component connection, you have 2 choices: 8bit vs 12 bit component. If using HDMI, you have 2 choices: RGB vs Full Range RGB.

switchedon, mfb thanks!

Levesque, I should have put a ;) next to my question re: D2 but you sussed it out.
I am "patiently" waiting for the upgrade.

I've got a real "What DVD player to buy" dilemma going......

switchedon, mfb thanks!


mfb = ?

Did you actually read page 72/73 of the manual? It is specifically for the HDMI output and even under each output mode it talks about these settings being for the HDMI output. It even says the 8 bit component mode is the standard/default setting for HDMI devices. If I'm misunderstanding something please let me know.

jcg

jcg

You are mixing things up. HDMI and component are 2 different connections.

If using the component connection, you have 2 choices: 8bit vs 12 bit component. If using HDMI, you have 2 choices: RGB vs Full Range RGB.

HDMI can output component 12bits , 8 bits , RGB and Full RGB . As I mentioned in my earlier thread , I connected to Marantz S4 hdmi input . Component 8bits,RGB and Full RGB works fine for hdmi 480i to S4 . Hdmi component 12bits 480i to S4 produce picture but wrong colourspace . 480p and 720p thru hdmi to S4 is alright to component 8bits,12bits , RGB and Full RGB . However , I do not see any difference between 12bits and 8bits when outputing hdmi component 720p bypassing gennum chip to my S4 . If you connect to a DVI input display, you can only select RGB and Full RGB (did not try but I suppose this is it since it will force RGB from 989/79 when detecting a DVI based display )

Guys,

This is a great player. With my limited viewing so far, the 480i into my Pio plasma is better than the SP1000 (with my setup). The synergy of the 79 and Pio plasma works very well. I have been trying various DVD/VP combinations over the years and finally think the best route is 480i into the plasma and let the monitor do the internal scaling.

I have not done any critical audio testing but sound is very close to the SP1000. CDs, DVD-A, DTS sound great (haven't tried SACD). I have to say that my current audio setup is not what I used to have (Proceed PMDT/B&W N802s/Levinson amp). I don't think I would be able to tell the difference between the Onkyo and 79 with my current Audio Concept (Sapphire) monitors. I have only used i.Link so far and love it. I don't see myself using the analog outs.

I still need to run the player thru the DVE and HQV discs.

I'm also testing the various Colour settings (RGB, full RGB, Comp 12-bit, Comp 8-bit). I'm currently using RGB but the Comp options are available. Didn't see any difference between RGB and Comp 12-bit.

Hope this helps.

marty

"Component output" is really confusing now with HDMI. Component color is digital YCbCr or analog YPbPr, as we all know, and YCbCr could never be transmitted before HDMI except with SDI. So now we have to be careful how we say things so others understand what we are saying.

HDMI can carry 8, 10, 12bit YCbCr 4:2:2 or 8bit YCbCr 4:4:4. For 4:2:2 each component is 12bits wide regardless of the range of the values, 0-255, 0-1023, etc. YCbCr 4:4:4 is 8bit values. So is it possible that the 8 and 12 bit selections are for switching between YCbCr 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 ?? I'm ignoring RGB and the analog side.

Like I said before, for 480i, what else is there to send except 8bit pixel data? This is what the MPEG decoder outputs from the 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0 encoded DVD. For a "direct mode" you would not want anything else sent because anything else means more processing. Once the player deinterlaces/scales, 10bit, or even 12bit, components make more sense. Didn't the docs say it output 10bit video? (meaning deinterlaced/scaled).

larry

mfb

Thanks for the audio thoughts. I remember my S1000. Audio was outstanding (perhaps the best I've used) but color space didn't jibe well here. The Pio 59 was next, and I missed the audio from the 1000. Both are sold now, so I had high hopes for the 79. Sounds like a winner.

Looking forward to more comments on audio.

Fellow ACIer

E

"Component output" is really confusing now with HDMI. Component color is digital YCbCr or analog YPbPr, as we all know, and YCbCr could never be transmitted before HDMI except with SDI. So now we have to be careful how we say things so others understand what we are saying.

HDMI can carry 8, 10, 12bit YCbCr 4:2:2 or 8bit YCbCr 4:4:4. For 4:2:2 each component is 12bits wide regardless of the range of the values, 0-255, 0-1023, etc. YCbCr 4:4:4 is 8bit values. So is it possible that the 8 and 12 bit selections are for switching between YCbCr 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 ?? I'm ignoring RGB and the analog side.

Like I said before, for 480i, what else is there to send except 8bit pixel data? This is what the MPEG decoder outputs from the 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0 encoded DVD. For a "direct mode" you would not want anything else sent because anything else means more processing. Once the player deinterlaces/scales, 10bit, or even 12bit, components make more sense. Didn't the docs say it output 10bit video? (meaning deinterlaced/scaled).

larry

Thanks for the explanation larry, that's what I thought the deal was. It makes sense that for 480i you want it the least processed possible, but if you are going to be outputting progressive (scaled or not), it might be beneficial to try the higher bit colorspaces. Of course, I'm waiting to see some comparisons on this to see if it helps at all. It may not help unless a persons display is greater than 8bits internally.

And yes, AFAIK it is internally 10bit and should outut 10bit as well, but the details are a bit over my head. I'd have to do some reading.

Good try. :D

Please see- :p
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6516636&&#post6516636

When pray tell, will you be able to be more forthcoming?

If anybody has a direct comparison of the 79avi to the older 59avi (video only, HDMI outputting 1080i), I would appreciate hearing about it. I could probably swap my 59 for a 79 and ~$200, but for video (I send the audio to to AVR digitally) I'm not sure there's any significant difference.

Congrats "MFB",
How is the transport ?
Does it sound quiet , and smooth ?
Also , how would you say the build quality is ?
Many qusetions , many thanks !! :D
Gary ;)

jedi26,

The Pio is built well. Still a notch below the Onkyo. Transport is fairly quiet and smooth. I would say it's even better than the Onkyo. I have been spoiled with a Levinson 39 and Proceed. Not to be so anal on the transport, but I remember looking at the Lexicon RT-20 when it came out and saying how could they put a plastic CD tray into a such a high priced unit.

Sounding great with a Sting DVD-A disc...

"Component output" is really confusing now with HDMI. So now we have to be careful how we say things so others understand what we are saying.

because in the pio menus under HDMI setting it is labelled as "Component", "Component 12bit", together with "RGB" and "RGB Expanded". We are trying to figure out what exactly it does. Maybe it means 4:4:4 and 4:2:2


For a "direct mode" you would not want anything else sent because anything else means more processing.


As I posted before, I'm still unable to find the option "direct mode" where you cannot adjust anything. The "Direct" setting of the HDMI is the same as the old 59, where you can go in and change everything you want, including the HDMI settings.

Thanks, C722. It's a good chance that the two component options in the HDMI menu are for YCbCr 4:2:2 and 4:4:4. If a HDMI device supports one of them, it has to support the other. Confirmation would be a clarification from Pio support or somebody with a display device that reports the input type/format. Also, when I said "direct mode", I was referring to the Pio marketing literature. You have the player so you know what the options are. :)

larry

Direct mode in pio 989/79 cannot adjust anything . It is different .

So I finally got this unit after 2 weeks of waiting... here are my first impressions which hopefully will help others make an informed decision. Note that I will be focusing more on the audio side of the equation as I am a music (CD not SACD nor DVD Audio) listener first and foremost.

Equipment used in evaluation:

HDTV: Samsung HLP5685W (Kirk) connected via HDMI @ 720p.

Processor: None. For watching movies / DVD concerts, I am using the 79AVi analog 5.1 outputs which I directly connected to 3 amplifiers. The downside of course is I do not have a unified volume control and have to rely on the test signal generator to make the channels similar in volume. I am not using the .1 subwoofer out of the 79AVi. I decided to disable sub out and set the main speakers to large. I have my sub hooked up to an X30 electronic crossover which takes care of managing the crossover between the sub and the main speakers.

Pre / Main Amp: Marantz PM-94 (http://www.quarter-a.netfirms.com/)

Center Channel Amp: Onkyo TX-8011 2 channel receiver

Surround Amp: Yamaha MX-35 power amp.

Front Speakers: Infinity Modulus 2 way with time aligned drivers (circa 1991 - one of the last speakers designed by Arnie Nudell before he moved on to Genesis).

Subwoofer: Paradigm Servo 15v2 connected to PM-94 via X30 electronic crossover.

Center, Surround speakers: Canton GL-260. For centers, I am using two GL260 side by side with the speakers on their side with the 2 tweeters inboard and 2 woofers outboard... I have a Y connector from the center out of the 79AVi going to the left and right channels of the Onkyo TX-8011 powering the 2 Cantons.

Other equipment used for comparisons (not an A to B comparison):

CD-Player: Sony CDP-x779ES dedicated CD player.
DVD-Player: Samsung HD-841 Universal with 5.1 analog out (firmware upgraded).

DVDs used for evaluation
The Incredibles, Star Wars Episode 2, Star Wars Episode 5, The Fifth Element (SBE), Master & Commander, Godsmack Changes, Spiderman 2 (SBE)

CDs used for evaluation
Pat Metheny - Question & Answers, Mike Stern - Standards, Miles Davis - My Funny Valentine Plus Four & More, Rob Zombie - La Sexorcisimo


Observations

I have not done any video calibrations yet but I did change the HDMI Video settings to "Natural" (default was "Direct"). I initially got a thin sound from watching DVDs despite fiddling with the audio settings (all levels to +6DB, set the main speakers to large, center and surrounds to small, and sub to none).

The thin sound problem was fixed however (both DVD and CDs) after I ran the "Setup Navigator" wizard and just selected the defaults all over again. I then went back to the "Initial Settings" to reset the levels and speaker sizes. So if you are going to use the 5.1 analog outs, I suggest running the "Setup Navigator" wizard before going to the other "Initial Settings". This might be a bug in the firmware or I might have just missed something.

Video quality: Excellent considering I have not calibrated the unit yet. The image were sharp and the colors appeared accurate. I did not notice any chroma bugs when playing The Incredibles. Watching Episode 5 (Empire Strikes Back), I was amazed at how good the PQ was... close to HD quality despite the age of the film.

Compared to the Samsung HD-841 I can say there was a noticeable improvement especially in smoothness (lack of jaggies). These improvements are subtle though, not night and day. I expect the image to improve further after I calibrate it perhaps next weekend.

Audio quality: After I finally got the 5.1 analog sound setup properly, one word: WOW. Compared to the then top of the line Sony CD player, this is at least equal to in quality when playing CDs. Note that when playing CDs, I am using the "Pure Audio" mode which switches off all digital circuitry (including the display which just appears briefly after every track change). Note that for listening to CDs, I am using the unit's 2Ch Audio out connected directly to the Pre Amp.

Imaging when listening to CDs was excellent and the instruments were rendered in the places I expected them to be... exact same places where my Sony CD player placed them.

On DVDs, the sound was excellent too using both the Dolby and DTS onboard decoder of the player. This is a definite step up compared to the decoding which used to be done by my Samsung HD-841 (Dolby only as it had no onboard DTS decoder). Explosions, sound effects, and dialog all were rendered with realism.

The DTS 5.1 audio of the Godsmack DVD was flawless... I was completely immersed within the sound.

Final Words

One downside is that the transport could have been smoother... but this is nitpicking. Also, I thought there was a bug in the analog 5.1 audio setup. However for an all in one player this set is pretty good. I am keeping this player and will be using it not only as a DVD player but also as my main HT processor until I save enough funds for an Anthem processor.

cyclocommuter

Thanks for the impressions

E

i just ordered one of these units i was deciding on the 79 and the 59 i went with the 79 anyway here's my question right now i'm using a 318 old firmware i paticuarly don't like the unit but using compnent out to my sharp dt-300 it looks preety good sometimes though it looks grainy and not as detailed anyway do you guys think i will see a big inprovement over the 318 also the layer change in the 318 is real noticeable any inprovement here any thought will be greatfull

...anyone had good luck with an internet dealer for the DV-79AVi?

i just ordered one of these units i was deciding on the 79 and the 59 i went with the 79 anyway here's my question right now i'm using a 318 old firmware i paticuarly don't like the unit but using compnent out to my sharp dt-300 it looks preety good sometimes though it looks grainy and not as detailed anyway do you guys think i will see a big inprovement over the 318 also the layer change in the 318 is real noticeable any inprovement here any thought will be greatfull


I know the layer change on the 59 was "okay" at best (~1.25 seconds worst case as measured by Secrets). I think someone said the 79avi is "a little" better in one of these threads. I guess you can bet on a second or less, but don't be asking for a Denon-quick layer change. I see the 318 clocks in at about 1.75 seconds, so I would say yes, you could expect to see an improvement in that area.

Also, depending on how critical your eye is, and how big of a screen you are throwing, I think you should see some pq improvements in different areas with 79 over your 318. I can't say, I haven't seen either (yet).

...anyone had good luck with an internet dealer for the DV-79AVi?
Try Doc DVD. He has been highly recommended for the 59avi and other Pio gear. I believe you get the player from an authorized dealer. If you don't care about that, you can take your chances at some of the place on the net.

larry

Great forum. I am looking at the DV-79Avi as well. For those of you who are (or are considering) running the hdmi output of this player through an external scaler such as DVDO HD+, why is the 480i signal over hdmi so preferred? Is this closest to a raw read of the disc? Is a dvd encoded as a 480 interlaced signal? I understand that an external scaler probably has better deinterlacers / scalers then most all dvd players. It seems to me that to get from 480i content to a 1080i/p the scaler will have to "create" a lot of new pixels but not necessarily be able to resolve any more details from the source 480i signal. Thanks for helping a newbie.

Is this closest to a raw read of the disc? Yes, especially if using YCbCr output.
Is a dvd encoded as a 480 interlaced signal?99.9% I believe there are some progressive flagged DVDs.

larry

Pooper is correct - Docdvd is authorized. He's my ISF as well.

E

Pooper is correct - Docdvd is authorized. He's my ISF as well.

E

Excellent, thx Pooper and E for the info on Docdvd. I've contacted a few "authorized" dealers about 79 availability and price w/no email response which is unacceptable ^_^. I've had great luck w/Pioneer products. I'll be interested to hear from someone who's tried the DV-79AVi connected to the new Pioneer receiver for any synergistic effects.

As the subject states, I picked up a Pioneer 79avi in silver today. I was heavily leaning towards a Denon 3910 due to the fact that I already have a Denon 3805 receiver. The possibility of using Denon Link was very tempting. However, after reading some comments from the forum stating that analog was better for SACD's and DVD-A's on the 3910, Denon Link didn't look so tempting anymore. I have a feeling that the 3910 might still be better audio player than the 79avi through analog, but I got a great deal on the 79avi. After getting a qoute over the phone from an authorized dealer without any haggling whatsoever, I left the house and had the player in my hand within 30 minutes. I seriously almost went with the 3910. My local Good Guys is going out of business and everything is 30-50% off. They had a black 3910 in stock, but I really wanted it in silver. I'm glad I held off on the 3910.

Time to start playing with the 79avi. :-)


Any chance you can post a pic of the unit?

thanks.

check this link, a nice pic of the 989 (european 79Avi) in silver
989 silver pic (http://www.cinenow.com/fr/reportage.php/sid,14418/)

Has anyone seen, or better still got, a picture of the 989/79s innards? Is anyone brave enough - I wouldn't - to open it up for a photo?

Can someone please explain the following symptoms I'm having? I almost called my doc about it but thought I would take it to the real experts first.

I woke up in the middle of the night last night. Instead of checking on my sleeping son or my sleeping new baby girl, I tip-toed into the living room, opened up my components cabinet and checked on my Silver 79. This after having driven an hour and a half each way to pick it up on Saturday. I haven't even plugged it in yet, since my plasma is not set for delivery until Tuesday or Wednesday. It was just sitting their like a jewel box, waiting for its moment to shine.

I think the cause may be what Freud referred to in his early works as Avsforumitis, which leads perfectly normal men to obsess hours over high end audio and video equipment in order to approach that elusive perfect viewing/listening experience.

Are there any good remedies out there? And do you think it's covered by health insurance?

:D


----------------------------------------------------------------------

"I've got a fever, and the only cure is more cowbell, baby"

buy a bigger subwoofer, that will cure you :D

Ahhh - The Passion Of The Toy ;)

E

1. Can someone please explain the following symptoms I'm having?
2. Are there any good remedies out there?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3. "I've got a fever, and the only cure is more cowbell, baby"

1. Insomnia induced by Obsessive-Compulsive behavior in a Type A Personality type.

2. Yes, heavy sedation with Haldol until Tues. or Wed. when your plasma arrives.
P.S.
If your plasma never arrives, you can always send the Pio 79avi to me so that I can take it off your hands. :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. For your fever, see this post for further advice…..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6521154&&#post6521154

Pooper is correct - Docdvd is authorized. He's my ISF as well.

E

The price I got from Docdvd for the 79avi was at retail which was a while ago maybe the price is lower now but at retail I can get one at Tweeter for the same price (when available). Although the price he gave me for the 74txvi was very good. I bought a 3806 instead which he no longer sells (Denon products). But everything I have read so far on the forum has been very positive.

Bill

I bought and connected the analog cables for my Multi-Channel connection between the 79avi and IR RDC 7.1 and bought a DVD-A to check out both connections. Here is what I found.

Both SACD and DVD-A work fine over the analog Multi-Channel connection.

SACD does not work properly over Firewire. The center channel is off. All other channels seem to be OK.

DVD-A works fine over Firewire.

Is anyone using firewire between their 79avi and pre/pro receiver? If so, have you experienced any problems with SACD disks?

Thanks

John

what is your receiver? You may have SACD direct set to ON...

Is anyone using firewire between their 79avi and pre/pro receiver? If so, have you experienced any problems with SACD disks?


Firewire is working perfectly between my 79AVi and my Pio Elite 74TXVi. DVD-A and SACD.

But after reading the IR 7.1 thread where some people did exchange it 4 or 5 times before having a good working one, I really think you should double check your pre/pro...

If the analog outs work ok, then the player is reading the disc correctly. That would be the only reason for not getting a center channel via firewire - misreading the disc (if that is possible). Also, there doesn't have to be a center channel on multichannel discs. Odd, but possible.:)

larry

There are few SACD disks with no center channel signal at all.

someone on another forum mentioned that they still see chroma issues with finding NEMO. ie the red fish still look like they are not rendered correctly.

Can any owner check this? the openinng scences with nemos ill-fated mother should do and nemos first day of school bit.

THX

The price I got from Docdvd for the 79avi was at retail which was a while ago maybe the price is lower now but at retail I can get one at Tweeter for the same price (when available). Although the price he gave me for the 74txvi was very good. I bought a 3806 instead which he no longer sells (Denon products). But everything I have read so far on the forum has been very positive.

Bill


Yep, I got the same close to retail as well. Perhaps his margin is not very good right now. Those first few at eight beans were gone in a second. Now it's eight point five and up for those who stock.

E

someone on another forum mentioned that they still see chroma issues with finding NEMO. ie the red fish still look like they are not rendered correctly.

Can any owner check this? the openinng scences with nemos ill-fated mother should do and nemos first day of school bit.

THX


No chroma issues on my end. My two year old's favorite movie, seems like I have seen it a million times. Serveral times on the 79.

m

"I've got a fever, and the only cure is more cowbell, baby"

Rx: More Cowbell! (http://homepage.mac.com/raythompson/SonyQualia006/iMovieTheater34.html)
Let us know more when you hook that baby up...

I have all the settings correct (as far as I know).

The SACD Im using for the test has a center channel.

Isnt it possible that the 79avi is having a problem sending the center channel over firewire on SACD? I agree if there is a problem somewhere the RDC 7.1 would be a likely suspect. However, Ive read that there have been a few communication problems with firewire connections between different brand components.

John

The problem most people have are hangs or cut outs, but they are not many. This is Pio's 3rd model line with i.Link (47ai, 59avi, 79avi), I'd be really surprised if it's a player problem.

larry

Johnny

Does the problem happen with any SACD? Did you try more than one disk?
I know you probably have all the settings correct but the only thing that can be possible wrong with the 79 is the SACD settings. You must set it to MChannel according to the page 71 on the manual.

Please let us know about your findings. I'm about to order a 79 but I will wait for your feedback.

Thanks

Sergio

I have all the settings correct (as far as I know).

The SACD Im using for the test has a center channel.

Isnt it possible that the 79avi is having a problem sending the center channel over firewire on SACD? I agree if there is a problem somewhere the RDC 7.1 would be a likely suspect. However, Ive read that there have been a few communication problems with firewire connections between different brand components.

John

Just a suggestion, try running the "Setup Navigator:" wizard and just select all the default settings. After that you can go to Initial Settings, Video Adjust, Audio Settings to set your preferrences.

No I don't use SACD but if you read my initial impressions/review a couple of posts back, I mentioned that I went directly to the other settings instead of running the "Setup Navigator" wizard first. This caused the analog 5.1 connection to sound thin, the midbass lacking punch. After I ran the Setup Navigator, then back to the other settings, everything sounded much better...

As I pointed out, there could be a bug in the firmware...

It isn't a bug in the firmware if it's working for others.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6577843&&#post6577843

It isn't a bug in the firmware if it's working for others.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6577843&&#post6577843

Others might have gone thru Setup Navigator first before jumping to the other settings head first ;) Or I might have triggered the bug by going to the initial settings first... Software/firmware bugs are quirky in nature... some may encounter problems but not others. Being a software developer, I have a pretty good understanding of the nature of the beast.

Let me be clear though, the 79AVi is a keeper... I have encountered worse bugs in hardware/software than this.

When I read the post about adjusting the settings before running the navigator, I reset my 79avi and started over. It didnt fix the issue.

There is another AVS Forum member who has a 79avi and RDC 7.1 and he is going to test an SACD shortly and will let me/us know how it works. His DVD-As work fine. The only problem is...if he has the same problem as me, it wont answer where the problem is.

I've triple checked my settings and everything seems to be Ok. I will also start changing some of the settings to see what happens. As I indicated the analog 5.1 SACD works fine, its just the firewire SACD that isnt working properly.

If you posted you're location, there's a chance a fellow member with a i.Link output player might stop by with it and see if it works. Stranger things have happened. :) Is your RDC firmware up to date?

larry

I'm sure the problem is the Integra 7.1, or a faulty 79AVi. But since some guy in the IR 7.1 thread did exchange his pre/pro 5 times before getting a ''good'' one, it's probably the culprit here... ;)

I was using the 79AVi with a Pio 74TXVi and now a Denon 4806 and both are working perfectly with the ilink connection.

When I read the post about adjusting the settings before running the navigator, I reset my 79avi and started over. It didnt fix the issue.

There is another AVS Forum member who has a 79avi and RDC 7.1 and he is going to test an SACD shortly and will let me/us know how it works. His DVD-As work fine. The only problem is...if he has the same problem as me, it wont answer where the problem is.

I've triple checked my settings and everything seems to be Ok. I will also start changing some of the settings to see what happens. As I indicated the analog 5.1 SACD works fine, its just the firewire SACD that isnt working properly.

John,

I hate to say it but the SACDs work fine with my setup. I'll PM you with details later.

BTW, DVD-A discs show DVD-Audio on the 7.1

marty

Levesque: I have the 74txvi and planning to buy a 79AVI. Is there any special reason why you switched the 74 for the Denon? Wasn't the package working well before?

Thanks

Sergio

Levesque: I have the 74txvi and planning to buy a 79AVI. Is there any special reason why you switched the 74 for the Denon?

I didn't switch. I'm using an Anthem D1 pre/pro with an Anthem P2 and P5 amps in my main system, but I'm ''playing'' with the 74TXVi and Denon 4806 for the moment... :D

Hi everyone,

I recently picked up the 79avi and have noticed that it makes a click when you press play or use the number keys. Though it doesn't click when selecting play through a DVD menu. I just want to make sure this is normal. Can someone tell me please?

Cheers,
Dave

Is this player available in USA? Where? I tried all the ususal suspects but they don't even have an ETA for it.

Thanks

Sergio

Is this player available in USA? Where? I tried all the ususal suspects but they don't even have an ETA for it.

Thanks

Sergio

If you go to the Videogon website, there was someone selling the 79avi. Not sure if they sold out of their initial alotment, but they were selling at a nice price.

Hi everyone,

I recently picked up the 79avi and have noticed that it makes a click when you press play or use the number keys. Though it doesn't click when selecting play through a DVD menu. I just want to make sure this is normal. Can someone tell me please?

Cheers,
Dave

Most likely normal, though click is only audible the fist time you press play or a track number. After the first audible click, subsequent track changes by pressing track numbers via the remote are inaudible.

Just wondering if this player let's you play JPEGs and also do Zooms? And also does it remember the disk history? If so for how many disks?

I know the 59avi doesn't !

Ritesh

I'm debating returning my Onkyo SP1000 for near what I paid for it and picking up the 79avi. I'd save me several hundred dollars which would go nicely toward a new plasma/lcd. Any reason why I should stick with the Onkyo (which I am admittedly happy with)? I loved the audio out of the Onkyo listening to SACD/DVD-As. Will the Pio unit be similar?

The big point for me, however, is the pure digital bypass, allowing me to pass an unprocessed signal to a scaler. Once again, any opinions? An SDI mod for the Onkyo is expensive, and if the two units offer similar performance, I'll have that much more money saved towards HT nirvana.

Any and all opinions welcome and encouraged,
Dan

Anyone know if the 79avi will output 480i to a non-hdcp display over hdmi?

Thanks,
Ken

I'll have a 79avi hopefully by end of week. Will AB with SP1000 and try out 480i HDMI with HD+. Gotta good Elite dealer connection.

I'm debating returning my Onkyo SP1000 for near what I paid for it and picking up the 79avi. I'd save me several hundred dollars which would go nicely toward a new plasma/lcd. Any reason why I should stick with the Onkyo (which I am admittedly happy with)? I loved the audio out of the Onkyo listening to SACD/DVD-As. Will the Pio unit be similar?

The big point for me, however, is the pure digital bypass, allowing me to pass an unprocessed signal to a scaler. Once again, any opinions? An SDI mod for the Onkyo is expensive, and if the two units offer similar performance, I'll have that much more money saved towards HT nirvana.

Any and all opinions welcome and encouraged,
Dan

I am in the same boat not wanting to SDI the SP1000. For $200 less than the cost of a jvb mod and SDI kit for my HD+ I was able to get a 79avi delivered. I don't expect the Pioneer to be nearly as good at audio but for video I have high hopes. I'll probably end up keeping the Onkyo for audio for my main living area. I think my prepro upgrade just got delayed ;)

mimason,

Keep me updated on the AB test, if things pan out nicely I'll be selling the Onkyo and picking up the 79avi. I can deal with some loss in audio quality if video is as good/better. I'm in desparate need of a new TV. Or a projector. Argh so much to buy, so little money :(

Anyone looking for a SP1000 in 9.9999/10 condition? ;)

ok I am getting frustrated.....where the heck in the US can you buy this thing for under 1k?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????

ok I am getting frustrated.....where the heck in the US can you buy this thing for under 1k?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????

Froogle is your friend.

ok I am getting frustrated.....where the heck in the US can you buy this thing for under 1k?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????

I ordered mine from abt electronics last week for $949 and free shipping. I should have it this Thursday. :)

Audiogon/Videogon has the best price I've seen if they actually have them still and you don't have a dealer contact. My price was better than the a'gon price but it is still a good price.

I ordered mine from abt electronics last week for $949 and free shipping. I should have it this Thursday. :)

Dangit - I preordered mine almost a month ago and you'll probably get yours first. No fair! :p

yea the audiogon guy went up 50.00 fromwhen i got mine it will be here tomorrow been waiting 2 weeks it's a silver unit hope it ia as nice as the picture shows

Anyone else do any testing on this? Jason Yeo posted that 480i in 12bit component mode over HDMI didn't work on the Marantz S4 as it producted the wrong color space. Is this an issue with S4, the 79AVi or is it just not supposed to work unless the player is set to scale to 480p/720p/1080i?

jcg

Thanks, C722. It's a good chance that the two component options in the HDMI menu are for YCbCr 4:2:2 and 4:4:4. If a HDMI device supports one of them, it has to support the other. Confirmation would be a clarification from Pio support or somebody with a display device that reports the input type/format. Also, when I said "direct mode", I was referring to the Pio marketing literature. You have the player so you know what the options are. :)

larry

Anyone know if the 79avi will output 480i to a non-hdcp display over hdmi?

Ken - No it won't. I don't yet have my 79avi but I know that if the source material is supplied with HDCP the display must be compliant or no go. My old Bravo D1 skirts the HDCP compliance but not the Pioneer's.

I demo'd a 59avi at home a while back and had an issue with my video processor's HDCP. Long story short I could not get a picture from the 59 due to the HDCP keys being out of date on the processor. I got no picture at 480i or any other resolution.

I ordered mine from abt electronics last week for $949 and free shipping. I should have it this Thursday. :)
WHAT? I've been checking their Web site religiously for weeks!

[dials phone]

Cool! I'm going to go pick it up tonight! Thanks for the heads up!

Just called ABT, they have them but had no idea when I asked about Silver. Does anyone know where to get one in Silver?

audiogon home theater max

Just found one, thanks.

Just finished hooking up my new 79AVi I picked up today. Got 12% off just by asking. I posted earlier in this thread asking if the external dimensions of the 79 were the same as the 59 I replaced it with. The 79 is taller by about 3/8" and about 1-2" deeper. The reason I wanted to know was because all my equipment is mounted in a Middle Atlantic rack with custom faceplates. Not only will you need a new faceplate, but you'll need a new shelf too because it is deeper.

Haven't gotten a chance yet to do any A/B comparisons in terms of VQ or SQ, but physically and build-wise this thing is a beast!

Will the panny 7UY HDMI allow color adj of the 79avi? When I connect my SA 8300 through HDMI no color or tint adjustment available. The 7UY manual states that this is true for DVI, so I would think that this would also be the case for HDMI, but I've read conflicting reports here on getting color and tint adjustments over HDMI with the 7UY.

So, are color and tint adjustments available on a 7UY through HDMI?

Tony

Just finished hooking up my new 79AVi I picked up today. Got 12% off just by asking. I posted earlier in this thread asking if the external dimensions of the 79 were the same as the 59 I replaced it with. The 79 is taller by about 3/8" and about 1-2" deeper. The reason I wanted to know was because all my equipment is mounted in a Middle Atlantic rack with custom faceplates. Not only will you need a new faceplate, but you'll need a new shelf too because it is deeper.

Haven't gotten a chance yet to do any A/B comparisons in terms of VQ or SQ, but physically and build-wise this thing is a beast!

Will certainly be interested in your comparisons! (between a 59 and 79?)

Initial impressions....

The 79 seems to resolve a little more detail than the 59 did, for instance I started off with Finding Nemo to check the color saturation, detail, and shadow/lighting. When Nemo goes to school I noticed skin texture on the stingray (teacher) that I couldn't see with as much detail with the 59. The 79 also seems more filmlike - detailed, yet a little softer. The images seem to have more depth and realism. I also noticed more detail in the water such as sand particles, krill, etc, are very realistic looking. Another obvious example was where the fish's fins were transparent, and the detail of the objects you could see through them. Although I can't say the differences are huge, if you do an A/B comparison you can detect slight differences. I am running both the 79 and 59 in Direct mode with identical settings where appropriate. Both are connected via HDMI to a Pioneer Elite 74TXVi that I use as a pre/pro, then HDMI out to a Sony HS51 projector.

As far as audio is concerned, there seems to be more ambiance/atmosphere with the 79 vs. the 59. The audio seems to be more spacious. I got this impression with Pink Floyd DSOTM SACD, Elton John Yellow Brick Road DVDA, and DVD's. The audio settings are identical between the 79 and 59, both are sendind all forms of digital audio through i.Link to the 74TXVi which acts as a pre/pro in front of 3 Bryston SST series amps and an M&K S150/SS150/MX350 THX Ultra 7.2 setup.

I really wasn't expecting much difference in terms of video between the 79 and 59 becuase the specifications don't indicate many differences, whereas more of the differences appeared to be on the audio side. With Blue-Ray/HD-DVD coming out one of these days, I was hesitant to buy another higher-end DVD player, but with the 12% discount I got off the street price everyone knows about, and what I will sell my 59 for I figured $200 wasn't too bad for an upgrade to Pioneer's latest, and possibly last(?) Elite DVD player. I'm planning on keeping it for SD-DVD's even after Blue-Ray/HD-DVD comes out . At least at this point...

Pio 79/989 still has slight chroma bugs .

Anyone else do any testing on this? Jason Yeo posted that 480i in 12bit component mode over HDMI didn't work on the Marantz S4 as it producted the wrong color space. Is this an issue with S4, the 79AVi or is it just not supposed to work unless the player is set to scale to 480p/720p/1080i?

jcg

I will test it with a different hdmi cable next week and see how it goes . 480p/720p/1080i works fine on 12bits component to S4 .

Monty & Jason,

I've got the 989AVi and have had for a few weeks now. Agree on your comments on the audio and video.
I wasn't expecting any difference between the 969 and 989 with video, even the Pio people in Singapore said there should be no difference, but I am seeing a definite improvement in fine detail and I would say also a more pleasing color rendition.

Interesting that the REMOTE supplied with the 989 is exactly the same as the one supplied with their high-end models a few years back and has a few less functions than the remote of the 969. Mainly to do with Random / Repeat / Memory etc which I don't really use or need, but just wondered if anyone has noticed less functions on the 79 Remote compared to the 59?

Monty

Thanks for the report. Looking forward to more if you care to expand further.

E

The remote for the 79 is the exact same one that came with my 59, model VXX2893.

I'm wondering if this is a result of the Air Studios monitor certification and calibration, but I can't get over how much more spacious the sound is. The sound stage just seems much larger, there is just the slightest bit of echo or reverb. It just feels more atmospheric - warm and enveloping. Curiously, other than the Air Studios logo on the faceplate and the box, there is no mention of it in the manual that I have found.

Monty are you saying the i-link audio is better on the 79 then the 59?

Air Studios? Is this just for Pio receivers? Darn thing certainly has a bunch of logos on it.

Anybody Know?

E

I used i.Link for all audio on my previous 59 AVi and now the 79AVi, and HDMI for video for both. I don't think it's the implementation of i.Link, but rather "processing" that is being done, which I am thinking is a result of the Air Studio's calibration/equalization.

Check out airstudios dot com, look under "News" for info related to Air Studio's involvement with Pioneer's latest receivers and DVD players.

Monty,
I don't doubt what you hear, but there is no processing of digital audio in the player before it is send out via i.Link, that's the purpose of it. Are you saying there's an AIR logo on the player? If so, it's probably used during BM and speaker distance control when using the player to decode audio. The AIR technology seem to be related to MCACC in the recievers - the only info I saw.

larry

Larry,

Yes there is an Air Studio's logo on the 79, although it is not referenced at all in the owners manual that I could find. According to the manual, speaker distance and speaker level do not apply to the digital outputs, including i.Link, they only apply to the 5.1 analog outputs.

I didn't mean to imply there was processing in the sense that we normally use that terms, i.e. PLIIX, THX post, etc, which is why I put the term in quotations. I took a look a tthe Air Studios website and tehy do specifically mention "calibration" in the text of Pioneer's MCACC. Since MCACC has a reverb function, I wonder if there is something going on there which gives it a sense of spaciousness due to the addition of some reverb.

Chris Walker, a Product Manager for Pioneer, was participating and answering questions on various subjects back in August and September. He has unfortunately been MIA since CEDIA. I purchased a Pioneer Elite 74 TXVi (which also features the Air Studios logo and MCACC calibrations)back in early August to replace a 56TXi which I use as a pre/pro, and had an issue with the HDMI output on the receiver. According to Chris, I purchased one of the very first one's sold to the public as Pioneer alloted 150 units for the grand opening of the MHT in some Best Buy's. When I reported the issue on the Amp, Processor, Receiver forum Chris contacted me and we exchanged emails and spoke on the phone a couple of times as we attempted to diagnose and resolve the issue with my receiver. During our conversations I asked him about the 79AVi as well as general questions about what to expect from upcoming Pioneer Elite products, especially receivers and Blue-Ray/HD-DVD players. He mentioned that upcoming products would have the ability to replicate the acoustics of world-famous recording studios, concert halls, etc via the MCACC process. If I remember correctly he specifically mentioned Air Studio's, and I beleive he mentioned Abbey Road.

Maybe I'm adding 1 to 1 and getting 3...but there is definitely a difference in the sound and I am currently able to do an A/B comparison to the two models because they are both currently connected to my system via HDMI and i.LINK and I have them setup identically. I have two Finding Nemo DVD's and it's easy to simply switch inputs and compare identical scenes within seconds.

Monty - I asked about the i.link because I would have thought they would have been identical as Larry says. I also thought i.link was jitterless so I wondering where the difference your hearing is coming from. I just got my 79 hooked-up last night but I don't have a i.link receiver to test it.

Yes, it's my understanding as well that i.Link is jitterless, at least for all practical purposes. I have seen some people contradict Pioneer's claims, stating that their is still some millionth/billionth of a second discrepancy, but at that point we all know there is no such thing as "zero tolerance".

I don't know, maybe my mind/ears are playing tricks on me because I'm excited about a new component and I'm trying to justify replacing a perfectly good DVD player with the latest/greatest model. But when you are able to compare them side by side with the same inputs, the same setup, etc and compare the same media material against itself within the amount of time it takes to press an input button it's hard to believe that the percieved differance is the result of auditory hallucination or memory.

That being said, if there is no improvement in SQ or VQ then there's no reason to upgrade from the 59 to the 79, or any other player for that matter, especially in light of the upcoming release of Blue-Ray/HD-DVD at some point.

Monty

Initial impressions aside, after a number of days/weeks and given enough time with your favorite movies/audio disks, you'll know what you have.
As to what amount it's better? Sounds like fun so far.

E

My 79 is due to arrive on MOnday. Would someone care to post thier settings. Using it with a Panny commerical 65 inch plasma via HDMI

thanks

Soundpros, sells the 79Avi for $xxx.00
the 59 Avi for $yyy.00, the 74XVi receiver for $zzzz.00 :D
I don't know if they are authorized or not, I bought my Denon 2900 from them over 2 years ago with no problems at all!

http://www.soundpros.com/pioneer_elite_home.cfm

NO, I DON"T WORK FOR THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited to remove street pricing. Alan has previously been in other threads here asking us not post street pricing. Thanks. Larry ]

I would like to hear from those who purchased the 79AVi after owning
the 59AVI. Is there a differnece in PQ? Any difference in 480i over HDMI?
don't care about the audio since my 59AVi is used as an audio transport...
Less visible chroma bug?

SoundPros has good prices but is definitely not authorized as the Pioneer website specifically states no Ebay vendors are authorized.

I don't know, maybe my mind/ears are playing tricks on me because I'm excited about a new component and I'm trying to justify replacing a perfectly good DVD player with the latest/greatest model. I was going to mention this, but didn't. But since you brought it up... :) With audio, you really have no point of reference except what you remember when comparing two things in succession. Your mind controls how you hear things. At one time somebody posted a link to a reference where how a skilled "demo controller" influenced what people heard (or how they think they heard things) just by the way he stated things and presented information when conducting the exercise. If you were comparing a Pio player and another brand with i.Link, then there may be a chance you heard something different with i.Link. Pio gear uses PQLS(?) between components with i.Link that uses a feature of IEEE1394 that IIRC is some sort of flow control to make sure there's no buffer overruns on the target end. But if you did hear a difference, don't argue with yourself. :) Enjoy it.

larry

Monty,
Since you already have things setup so you can easily A/B the 2, can you do a blinded test for us? Have someone else be your eyes to do all the switching, and you just sit and listen. Don't mean to use you as a guinea pig, but I think it might lay some questions to rest and would be an interesting real world comparison.

SoundPros has good prices but is definitely not authorized as the Pioneer website specifically states no Ebay vendors are authorized.

[Got rid of prices. See above. Thanks, Larry]

They have a retail store in SD some of the brands only available there[I.e. Marantz, Onkyo]I didn't know they also sell on Ebay, but I dodn't know why anyone would care.

Monty,
Since you already have things setup so you can easily A/B the 2, can you do a blinded test for us? Have someone else be your eyes to do all the switching, and you just sit and listen. Don't mean to use you as a guinea pig, but I think it might lay some questions to rest and would be an interesting real world comparison.


Hehe. I'll ask my wife to do it, but I can bet her response would be limited to :rolleyes: . Of course, in order to do that, she'd have to find out I bought the 79... :eek:

MAN ! just got this thing hooked up hdmi to my sharp dt-300 110" screen it;s great been using dvb-318 just kills it in picture and sound quality and i have not even finished setting everthing just goes to show you get what you pay for i never thought there would be this much difference in players only thought i had a high end player i wanted a 59 but never could come up with the money they wanted for them then when i could afford it they come out with this player glad i finally spent the money on qualitty it does my projector justice now [ one happy person now ]

Real/perceived sound quality differences aside, I can say without reservation that I have not noticed a single layer change pause with the 79 like I did with the 59. The 59 was tolerable but noticeable, but the layer change of the 79 seems flawless on the 3 DVD's I have watched with it - Finding Nemo, Polar Express, and WOTW.

Hehe. I'll ask my wife to do it, but I can bet her response would be limited to :rolleyes: . Of course, in order to do that, she'd have to find out I bought the 79... :eek:
C'mon, you can do it !
Follow this as a guideline for your double-blind test......
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5491307&&#post5491307

Worked for me ! :)

Initial impressions....

The 79 seems to resolve a little more detail than the 59 did, for instance I started off with Finding Nemo to check the color saturation, detail, and shadow/lighting. When Nemo goes to school I noticed skin texture on the stingray (teacher) that I couldn't see with as much detail with the 59. The 79 also seems more filmlike - detailed, yet a little softer. The images seem to have more depth and realism. I also noticed more detail in the water such as sand particles, krill, etc, are very realistic looking. Another obvious example was where the fish's fins were transparent, and the detail of the objects you could see through them. Although I can't say the differences are huge, if you do an A/B comparison you can detect slight differences. I am running both the 79 and 59 in Direct mode with identical settings where appropriate. Both are connected via HDMI to a Pioneer Elite 74TXVi that I use as a pre/pro, then HDMI out to a Sony HS51 projector.

As far as audio is concerned, there seems to be more ambiance/atmosphere with the 79 vs. the 59. The audio seems to be more spacious. I got this impression with Pink Floyd DSOTM SACD, Elton John Yellow Brick Road DVDA, and DVD's. The audio settings are identical between the 79 and 59, both are sendind all forms of digital audio through i.Link to the 74TXVi which acts as a pre/pro in front of 3 Bryston SST series amps and an M&K S150/SS150/MX350 THX Ultra 7.2 setup.

I really wasn't expecting much difference in terms of video between the 79 and 59 becuase the specifications don't indicate many differences, whereas more of the differences appeared to be on the audio side. With Blue-Ray/HD-DVD coming out one of these days, I was hesitant to buy another higher-end DVD player, but with the 12% discount I got off the street price everyone knows about, and what I will sell my 59 for I figured $200 wasn't too bad for an upgrade to Pioneer's latest, and possibly last(?) Elite DVD player. I'm planning on keeping it for SD-DVD's even after Blue-Ray/HD-DVD comes out . At least at this point...


Thanks for the review. Would you mind posting settings for your 79? I like you, will be running it into a 74TXVi, but then into an 1130 with HDMI. No biggie if you don't have time, I just was hoping to get a starting point for the player.

I'll post my settings tonight when I turn the projector on. Gotta follow my own rules you know. As all projector owners have their rules....

C'mon, you can do it !
Follow this as a guideline for your double-blind test......
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5491307&&#post5491307

Worked for me ! :)

My wife has this ridiculous belief that sometime after Halloween I shouldn't be buying things for myself because then she can't get them for me for Christmas. Like she'd buy the right DVD player, projector, etc anyway...the problem of course is that all the goodies come out this time of the year and who wants to have to wait until the 25th to get your hands on it, or discover that she thinks the Memorex DVD player from Radio Shack is just as good.

I'll post my settings tonight when I turn the projector on. Gotta follow my own rules you know. As all projector owners have their rules....

Ah, rules ;). Thanks very much!

or discover that she thinks the Memorex DVD player from Radio Shack is just as good.
:eek:

I'm going to need some hard facts before I replace my 59 with a 79. I'm tempted to buy one locally, and send it to Kris...I wonder if I could get it back within 30 days? :)

Well, with 6 days remaining my upgrade from the 59 to the 79 is going to costme no more than $270. I'm hoping to get it closer to $200, as the lack of layer change pause is worth at least half that to me...

Anyone want to sell me their 59 cheap :)?

Mine is currently at $610 with 6 days remaining... :D I love selling stuff on eBay!

Mine is currently at $610 with 6 days remaining... :D I love selling stuff on eBay!

Not bad! Glad to see they are holding their value fairly well.

It is a pretty good system. Not bad at all.

Thanks for the review. Would you mind posting settings for your 79? I like you, will be running it into a 74TXVi, but then into an 1130 with HDMI. No biggie if you don't have time, I just was hoping to get a starting point for the player.

Audio Settings
Audio DRC - Off
Legato Pro - Off
Hi-Bit - On
Virtual Sound - Off
Channel Level - Fix

Video Adjust
Direct



Intial Settings

Digital Audio Out
Digital Out - On
Dolby Digital Out - Dolby Digital
DTS Out - DTS
Linear PCM Out - Down Sample Off
MPEG Out - MPEG>PCM

Video Output
TV Screen - 16:9 (Wide)
Component Out - Progressive
S-Video Out - S2
Still Picture - Auto

Options
SACD Playback - Multi-ch Area
HDMI Settings -
Resolution - 1280x720p
Aspect Ratio - 16:9 (Wide)
Colour - Component (12-bit)
Video Memory - Direct
CD Playback - PCM Playback
DTS Downmix - CTS CD PLayback
Audio - Auto

Speakers
Audio Output Mode - 5.1 Channel
Speakers - Small, SW On
Speaker Distance - All set to 10.0 ft
Channel Level - Fix

i.link Setup
Audio Out - On
Connections Setup - VSX-74TXVi
Auto Select Play - VSX-74TXVi
DVD-Audio Output - 5.1 Channel

Setup Navigator

TV Functions
Progressive Scan - Compatible
AV Receiver - Connected
5.1ch Audio Out - Connected
Digital Audio Out - Connected
Center Speaker - Connected
Surround Speakers - Connected
Sub-woofer - Connected

AV Receiver Func.
Dobly Digital - Compatible
DTS - Compatible
96kHz Linear PCM - Compatible
MPEG - Compatible

Soundpros, sells the 79Avi for $xxx.00
the 59 Avi for $yyy.00, the 74XVi receiver for $zzzz.00 :D
I don't know if they are authorized or not, I bought my Denon 2900 from them over 2 years ago with no problems at all!

http://www.soundpros.com/pioneer_elite_home.cfm

NO, I DON"T WORK FOR THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited to remove street pricing. Alan has previously been in other threads here asking us not post street pricing. Thanks. Larry ]

Anybody have any experience with the Soundpros, are they a safe bet?

Monty -you're doing well on the bay - I bought one cheaper than that new months ago.

E

They have a retail store in SD some of the brands only available there[I.e. Marantz, Onkyo]I didn't know they also sell on Ebay, but I dodn't know why anyone would care.


Buying from an authorized dealer gives us the comfort that the manufacturer backs the warranty. Pioneer's website doesn't show Soundpros as an authorized dealer.

I just called them and was told the address on the website is a warehouse. They don't have a storefront but local buyers can pick up purchases at their warehouse address.

Thanks to a forum member, I was referred to a local authorized dealer for Pioneer Elite which has a better price for the 79avi.

Anybody have any experience with the Soundpros, are they a safe bet?

Just curious....If they aren't authorized by Pioneer then where do they get the product from?

Just curious....If they aren't authorized by Pioneer then where do they get the product from?

I've always wondered how that worked, but it seems commonplace with all brands. I'd love to know...

Edit- just heard from my dealer. We should be getting the 79avi's into Omaha, NE(well I'll get mine at least) next week. Yay! Hopefully I'll have my projector back :rolleyes:

Alan could you PM with the name of that local authorized dealer with the price? TIA.

A lot to read here, anyone have the 79avi hooked up to the new plasmas from pioneer and panasonic ? What are your thoughts.

Anyone want to sell me their 59 cheap :)?


I will as soon as somebody convinces me the 79AVi has better PQ
or does 480i over HDMI differently than the 59AVi...

Thanks to a forum member, I was referred to a local authorized dealer for Pioneer Elite which has a better price for the 79avi.

Can you spill the beans? At least the name of the website or phone#?
thanks

Just curious....If they aren't authorized by Pioneer then where do they get the product from?

Manufacturerers sell it to large wholesale distributors,which sell them to dealers[retailers], so they get it from the same place, for the same price.

Thanks for the review. Would you mind posting settings for your 79? I like you, will be running it into a 74TXVi, but then into an 1130 with HDMI. No biggie if you don't have time, I just was hoping to get a starting point for the player.

In my case, I followed the suggestions of Carl Sunbom in the 59Avi thread and to me at least, it was an improvement over the "Direct" setting... I could see more definition in dark scenes. This is on a Samsung HLP series DLP. I did have to turn off DNIE on the Samsung as having it turned on made the sharpening a little too noticeable... The shiny parts on the video (edges) where a little too prominent if the DNIE was on.

I copied Direct to Memory 1 then set IRE to 7.5, white level to leftmost position, and black level two notches from the left. I have not had the chance to run DVE on it yet but I suspect this will be my starting point.

In almost a dozen movies I have seen on this player, I have not noticed layer change at all. I have played Finding Nemo and also did not see jaggies... perhaps my screen is too small to see jaggies/chroma bugs (Kirk 56").

Great news about the layer change - That's an improvement I wasn't expecting.

Are jaggies usually seen on Nemo? I thought that was the test for the flickering solid color chroma bug (3:2 Alt Cadence Chroma Bug...right?).

Thanks for posting your impressions.

They may not be authorized but Scott with SoundProfessionals has always done right by me. Problems with the unit, he replaces it, no worries.
Should be getting my silver 79 from him this week :D

dc

I agree. Have ordered a few items from SoundPros and although I don't agree with their return policy (a 15% restocking fee no matter what), I have not had any complaints about what I ordered or their service, including shipping time. Admittedly, their prices are some of the lowest around.

In my case, I followed the suggestions of Carl Sunbom in the 59Avi thread and to me at least, it was an improvement over the "Direct" setting... I could see more definition in dark scenes. This is on a Samsung HLP series DLP. I did have to turn off DNIE on the Samsung as having it turned on made the sharpening a little too noticeable... The shiny parts on the video (edges) where a little too prominent if the DNIE was on.

I copied Direct to Memory 1 then set IRE to 7.5, white level to leftmost position, and black level two notches from the left. I have not had the chance to run DVE on it yet but I suspect this will be my starting point.

In almost a dozen movies I have seen on this player, I have not noticed layer change at all. I have played Finding Nemo and also did not see jaggies... perhaps my screen is too small to see jaggies/chroma bugs (Kirk 56"). It would be nice if somehow Carl (or anybody else with the required test patterns and gear) could get his hands on a 79avi and do the same measurements he did with the 59avi. Ideally, the PQ settings should be "neutral" for outputting what is actually on the disc. It would also be nice to know what the "direct" setting does.

larry

It would be nice if somehow Carl (or anybody else with the required test patterns and gear) could get his hands on a 79avi and do the same measurements he did with the 59avi. Ideally, the PQ settings should be "neutral" for outputting what is actually on the disc. It would also be nice to know what the "direct" setting does.

larry

If I recall right, the manual says that "direct" means that the player is outputting directly from disc. I copied this to memory 1 and before I did my update, "direct" settings set the memory 1 IRE to 0, black and white levels to middle notches.

These are the only 3 settings I modified (IRE to 7.5, white to the left most, black 2 notches from left) to come up with my memory 1 settings which I preferred to "direct". I found "direct" (on a Samsung HLP with DNIE turned off) a little too dark. I have not tweaked the TV's setting which is in Cinema mode.

Just picked mine up from Classic Stereo in Grand Rapids, MI. I am running to Mits CRT RPTV through component. I will post an initial report tomorrow for all us fossil users out there.

anybody no how to view non anamophic titles properly on my 318 it had a nice zoom feature i can;t figure it out on this player but it has onr incredable picture also is pure cinema on when it's in direct mode i"m using hdmi output thanks

Can you spill the beans? At least the name of the website or phone#?
thanks


Really, there's no beans to spill. I did a search from Pioneer's website for local dealers. They all quoted a price within a $50 range. No one had one in the store and would have to have it shipped down from LA.

From reading the reviews so far, this has got to be the best bang for the buck high end DVD player available.

A lot to read here, anyone have the 79avi hooked up to the new plasmas from pioneer and panasonic ? What are your thoughts.

I am wondering the same. I have a Pioneer Elite 1130 display and am wondering where the better processing would be... the 79avi or my display...

If I recall right, the manual says that "direct" means that the player is outputting directly from disc. I copied this to memory 1 and before I did my update, "direct" settings set the memory 1 IRE to 0, black and white levels to middle notches.

These are the only 3 settings I modified (IRE to 7.5, white to the left most, black 2 notches from left) to come up with my memory 1 settings which I preferred to "direct". I found "direct" (on a Samsung HLP with DNIE turned off) a little too dark. I have not tweaked the TV's setting which is in Cinema mode. Roger that on what the manual says about "direct mode". But, look at what has to be done to the 59avi HDMI PQ settings to get the player to output "direct" from the DVD. The neutral PQ settings were modifying the data. It would be nice to verify that "direct mode" is really direct. A "real" direct mode would disallow all other HDMI PQ settings - they are not necessary. For HDMI output, IRE has no meaning and should not even be an option, especially if "direct mode" is set. A luma value of 16 is video black no matter how you slice it. :)

larry

Audio Settings
Audio DRC - Off
Legato Pro - Off
Hi-Bit - On
Virtual Sound - Off
Channel Level - Fix

Video Adjust
Direct



Intial Settings

Digital Audio Out
Digital Out - On
Dolby Digital Out - Dolby Digital
DTS Out - DTS
Linear PCM Out - Down Sample Off
MPEG Out - MPEG>PCM

Video Output
TV Screen - 16:9 (Wide)
Component Out - Progressive
S-Video Out - S2
Still Picture - Auto

Options
SACD Playback - Multi-ch Area
HDMI Settings -
Resolution - 1280x720p
Aspect Ratio - 16:9 (Wide)
Colour - Component (12-bit)
Video Memory - Direct
CD Playback - PCM Playback
DTS Downmix - CTS CD PLayback
Audio - Auto

Speakers
Audio Output Mode - 5.1 Channel
Speakers - Small, SW On
Speaker Distance - All set to 10.0 ft
Channel Level - Fix

i.link Setup
Audio Out - On
Connections Setup - VSX-74TXVi
Auto Select Play - VSX-74TXVi
DVD-Audio Output - 5.1 Channel

Setup Navigator

TV Functions
Progressive Scan - Compatible
AV Receiver - Connected
5.1ch Audio Out - Connected
Digital Audio Out - Connected
Center Speaker - Connected
Surround Speakers - Connected
Sub-woofer - Connected

AV Receiver Func.
Dobly Digital - Compatible
DTS - Compatible
96kHz Linear PCM - Compatible
MPEG - Compatible


Many thanks - you should see my text files with settings!

Roger that on what the manual says about "direct mode". But, look at what has to be done to the 59avi HDMI PQ settings to get the player to output "direct" from the DVD. The neutral PQ settings were modifying the data. It would be nice to verify that "direct mode" is really direct. A "real" direct mode would disallow all other HDMI PQ settings - they are not necessary. For HDMI output, IRE has no meaning and should not even be an option, especially if "direct mode" is set. A luma value of 16 is video black no matter how you slice it. :)

larryso what you are sating is direct mode on the 79 should already be dialed in thats what mine is in and it look great i dont see how it could be any better

I am wondering the same. I have a Pioneer Elite 1130 display and am wondering where the better processing would be... the 79avi or my display...


I have the 79 feeding a Pio 1110. I prefer the direct 480i (HDMI) into the plasma. I have tried multiple DVD players and never was successfully able to synch at NR with various Pio plasmas (505, 503, 1110).

I have come to the conclusion that the best combination (IMO) is a direct HDMI feed and let the plasma do the scaling to 768p. I see more depth on the colors, better texture/details that I didn't see previously. I wonder how much better the scaler is on the 1130???

Here is how I would rank my findings:

1. Pio 79 - 480i (HDMI)
2. Proceed PMDT - 480i (SDI) from the PMDT thru both a Key Digital Leeza and DVDO HD+. Analog component input to synch at NR. Not digital.
3. Pio 79 - 720p (HDMI)
4. Onkyo SP1000 - 720p (HDMI)
5. Oppo 971 - 720p (DVI to HDMI)

6. I felt that 720p from the Pio, Onkyo and Oppo looked better on most movies and video than 1080i.

marty

Has anyone compared the audio on the 79 to the onkyo sp1000?

Has anyone compared the audio on the 79 to the onkyo sp1000?

Not yet but I get mine tomorrow.

so what you are sating is direct mode on the 79 should already be dialed in thats what mine is in and it look great i dont see how it could be any better Yes, but until it's confirmed by measurements, we can't be sure. I certainly believe the video looks great. "direct mode" is the most simple thing a player should be able to do for digital output via HDMI.

larry

I-link is not jitterless as far as im aware. i think i read somwhere the 79avi comes in at 160ps, or somthing like that im going by memory.

but i too think the H79 has more clarity via i-link than the 59avi. I have also been comparing with a 3910 via its firewire output and again the pioneer just sounds better, as said better clarity and better steering. you realy can tell instrument are coming from different speakers. CD playback via i-link is also quite good as well.

I put my review up here, with screen shots. this is the uk version so a 989

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270203&page=1&pp=15

Just click on the screen shots for them to go bigger.
Its not a pro review so dont be to critical :)

I still feel the Onkyo has better audio than the 79. I finally tried the analog outs (both 2 and 5 channel) and the Onkyo performs better. I'm able to place the instruments easier and soundstage is a tad better. I have to say that I don't do as much critical listening (I wish had more time to). With i.Link the gap narrows and I have a tough time telling the difference. As I mentioned before, I will be using the i.Link with the 79. It's so nice only having one cable...

m

A little background. I started with a 47Ai, nice detailed picture, jaggies, bad red-book sound. Went to a NAD T534 (thought you could upconvert over component), great sound, picture not as bad as one might think. Last six weeks had a 2910, great sound, terribly grainy picture. I was hoping the 79AVi might help to fill the video-audio chasm I have experienced. Well, I hooked it up and ran through setup and a minor calibration with DVE and then played some Vivaldi on dvd-a surround for an hour while I ate dinner.

My wife and I watched a movie (A Love Song for Bobby Long), long being the operative word here, and I was mildly impressed. The solid color scenes, sky, landscape, had none of the grainy look of the 2910. Good color, sound was impressive as there was a lot of acoustic music.

After the movie, I had a chance to play some of the standard "test" discs. Right away I noticed on the THX guy (red and silver guy) some very slight chroma-something going on the top of his head and shoulder. But, when I watched the dining scene on the Incredibles, I was amazed at the translucent quality of the skin of the characters. I saw no color abberations either at edges or within solid blocks of color. Dark scenes were very detailed. The overall grainy quality, and it was a very fine grain, of the 2910 was not evident on this disc.

I went through many others, Nemo, Fifth Element (the detail on the creatures at the beginning in Egypt was incredible), Robots (WOW!) and I am very happy with the video of this player. I never saw anything that jumped out at me and said, "A-ha!".

I haven't gotten a chance to check out the audio really, but one thing got my attention. The Vivaldi was sweet sounding. But there is definitely something going on with the ambience with this player. It was not a distraction but obvious. A lot more air seemed to surround sounds. I have watched Fifth Element dozens of times and there are some scenes I could probably chart. And, the way my room is set up, read long, I sometimes don't get a great fill between my front speakers and surrounds. I was hearing some real convincing fill.

Anyway, initial impressions are very favorable. I can't wait to get home and check out some music tonight.

Kelly

Really, there's no beans to spill. I did a search from Pioneer's website for local dealers. They all quoted a price within a $50 range. No one had one in the store and would have to have it shipped down from LA.
You said, a member here tipped you off to a specific store with better price then Soundpros, and it was an authorized dealer. Now you tell me I should waste my time to call around to get the same [msrp like] price? Is that place you mentioned really exists, or you just wanted to "raise my bet, without showing your hand" ?

Gandley.

Good review. I totally agree with your findings about the 79AVi against the 3910. I also concluded that the 79AVi is a better machine after comparing both in-house.

I should receive my Sony Ruby (mine was confirmed this morning) and IScan VP30 soon and I'm really anxious to use those 3 together...

I should receive my Sony Ruby (mine was confirmed this morning) and IScan VP30 soon and I'm really anxious to use those 3 together...

I look forward to your review.

I would love to know how the VO30 PQ compares to the 8 bit Iscan HD/HD+.

I also look forward to hearing how well the Ruby process a 480i HDMI signal and how it compares to the VP30.


Patiently Waiting

How come same processor like Marantz 9600, no 1080P?

what is the bennifit of a dedicated scaler like iscan i have the 79 hooked up to my sharp dt-300 vie hdmi to dvi cable monster 400 to be exact. and i think the picture is incrediable .

Are you saying i will get an even better picture with an outboard scaler?

I also look forward to hearing how well the Ruby process a 480i HDMI signal and how it compares to the VP30.


And that's not all... A little bird told me I should be able to try a Gennum scaler and a Realta HQV scaler pretty soon also... :D

It's really Christmas! All those new toys to play with... ;)

gandley

Good review - THANKS!

E

Lev, Is that bird friend on your payroll? ;) Lucky you.

I get my 79 today look forward to my sp1000, hd+ shootout.

What setup are you using with the 79avi/HD+. Are you using HDMI direct and Enhanced Color?

I get my 79 today look forward to my sp1000, hd+ shootout.


Great! Between the SP1000 and 79AVi, after carefully calibrating the display for both players, the 79AVi was better in my set-up, even w/o using a scaler.

And with the IScan HD+, the SP1000 can't do 480i over HDMi, so the 79AVi was alone in the fist place... :D


What setup are you using with the 79avi/HD+. Are you using HDMI direct and Enhanced Color?

480i over HDMI to the IScan HD+, using "Direct" and RGB "normal", not enhanced. I can use enhanced, but I have to change settings on my projector. With "normal", all the settings on my projector are flat at "0".

Great! Between the SP1000 and 79AVi, after carefully calibrating the display for both players, the 79AVi was better in my set-up, even w/o using a scaler.

And with the IScan HD+, the SP1000 can't do 480i over HDMi, so the 79AVi was alone in the fist place... :D



480i over HDMI to the IScan HD+, using "Direct" and RGB "normal", not enhanced. I can use enhanced, but I have to change settings on my projector. With "normal", all the settings on my projector are flat at "0".

Thanks. I also forgot for a minute that the 79avi will see DVI on the HD+ and send RGB.

LEVESQUE,

I'm surprised you aren't on the Anthem D2 Alpha Tester's list. (?) VP30 doesn't process 1080i properly does it? Ruby needs Gennum or HQV. :)

Ken

LEVESQUE,
I'm surprised you aren't on the Anthem D2 Alpha Tester's list.


Who says I'm not? ;) And if I am, I can't say it also... :D

But Anthem are not the only one coming out with a Gennum scaler...

Gandley.

Good review. I totally agree with your findings about the 79AVi against the 3910. I also concluded that the 79AVi is a better machine after comparing both in-house.

I should receive my Sony Ruby (mine was confirmed this morning) and IScan VP30 soon and I'm really anxious to use those 3 together...

It sounds like you wont be going out doors for some time with a setup like that.

Thanks for the comments on the review, i have got a bit of stick as regards the findings agaist the 3910, but is what we saw.

i can tell you the owner of the 3910 used, placed his order for the 989 (79avi)
today.

Levesque,
I can't remember what you said you use to calibrate. Do you have Avia Pro and a scaler that will display the input data like the Lumagen scaler that Carl used?

larry

It sounds like you wont be going out doors for some time with a setup like that.



No kidding! Great stuff. Can't wait for your review.

A little bird, Alain?
You'd better be talking about a little Anthem avian my friend. ;)
But I have a question specifically for you since you have direct experience.
Currently using a D1 w/ a 5900. Overall I've been satisfied both for audio & video.
Is the 79AVi a step up audio-wise from the 5900?
It's looking like the 79 will be my last non-HD video source but it would be nice not to have 2 players in the rack.
Thanks.

i.Link *can* be a true jitterless connection, but isn't necessarily. If you hook up the 79AVi with a Pio receiver with PQLS, the clocks get sync'ed between both and it is a jitterless connection. Sony has something similar between their players and receivers. But between different manufacturers, it depends.

In general, Pio players are among the best for low jitter anyway.

From page 26 of the manual:

Progressive scan video is available only from the component video output.
Is this true? No progressive scan over HDMI?

From page 26 of the manual:


Is this true? No progressive scan over HDMI?
i run hdmi and the progressive light is on plus it say progreeive on the display so i guess thats not true

That seems like something "lost in translation". :)

larry

Yeah, there is no way that is accurate.

Probably a leftover from days of composite vs component connections!

Yeah, there is no way that is accurate.

Probably a leftover from days of composite vs component connections!


Possibly no 480p over HMDI?

There certainly is progressive upcoversion. i.e. 720p ...

BTW Rob, are you swapping out your 59AVi for the 79AVi?

Possibly no 480p over HMDI?

There certainly is progressive upcoversion. i.e. 720p ...

BTW Rob, are you swapping out your 59AVi for the 79AVi?

I doubt it.

I am pretty satisfied with my 59avi at this point. I am still using a HD2 DLP projector, and will probably be upgrading to a 1080p unit within the year. By that time, I hope that HD disc players will be available, and my plan has been to keep the 59avi until then.

That being said, I will more than likely be getting an outboard scaler as well. If there are enough reports indicating that the 79avi's "direct mode" for 480i HDMI is noticeably cleaner than the 59avi, I might have to take the plunge! When does it ever end?!?!

I doubt it.

I am pretty satisfied with my 59avi at this point. I am still using a HD2 DLP projector, and will probably be upgrading to a 1080p unit within the year. By that time, I hope that HD disc players will be available, and my plan has been to keep the 59avi until then.



I may actually be pulling the trigger and go with a single chip 1080p DLP FP and
a 100 in. screen. Depends how good the 65 in. 1080p Panny plasma looks
( they are suppose to add a 1080p input by summer ).




That being said, I will more than likely be getting an outboard scaler as well. If there are enough reports indicating that the 79avi's "direct mode" for 480i HDMI is noticeably cleaner than the 59avi, I might have to take the plunge!

I am waiting on seeing the same thing - I use the 59AVi as transport for
sound so it going to be a decsion solely upon PQ at 480i over HDMI for me...

When does it ever end?!?!


NEVER - that's what makes is soooo fun :-)

Hi,

Has anyone figured out which MPEG2 decoder the 79avi uses?

God bless...

Mark

You will love having a BIG screen Tony! I will be waiting for the 1080p DLP's to be released and compare them to the Ruby etc. before making any decisions. I have time, I can wait a year.... I think!

You will love having a BIG screen Tony! I will be waiting for the 1080p DLP's to be released and compare them to the Ruby etc. before making any decisions. I have time, I can wait a year.... I think!

I am going to check out the Ruby too. But I am kind of leary of three chip solutions and want to make sure I get one without any convergence or color uniformity
issues. Also concerned about its light output...


But that's for another thread :-)

I hear you regarding the convergence issue.

I am not at all sensitive to rainbows on DLP's, so either technology is ok for me. It will come down to which gives the better overall pq.

And yes, we are going OT.


;)

Jason Yeo- Which do you find better the Pioneer 989AVi(DV79) or your Denon DVD-A1XV (DVD-5910) on the S4? As a Denon DVD-3910 owner I am looking at upgrading to the A1XV due to its Denon Link output for my Denon AVR and its Realta processing. But if the Pioneer is better I will use the ILink from it and I saw some screenshots of the Pioneer going into a Sony Ruby and it looks quite nice.

Jason Yeo- Which do you find better the Pioneer 989AVi(DV79) or your Denon DVD-A1XV (DVD-5910) on the S4? As a Denon DVD-3910 owner I am looking at upgrading to the A1XV due to its Denon Link output for my Denon AVR and its Realta processing. But if the Pioneer is better I will use the ILink from it and I saw some screenshots of the Pioneer going into a Sony Ruby and it looks quite nice.

Any link to those shots?

Source DVD, digital connection 1080i since Pioneer 989 and projector gauged D65. I carried out 2 calibrations: one numerically, one into analogical

The Relating ScreenShots (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6630076&&#post6630076)

Spero D.

The VP30 does 1080i. What specifically do you think the isssue is?

jcg

LEVESQUE,

I'm surprised you aren't on the Anthem D2 Alpha Tester's list. (?) VP30 doesn't process 1080i properly does it? Ruby needs Gennum or HQV. :)

Ken

He may be referring to that it does not do motion adaptive 1080i deinterlacing - I don't know if it does or does not - but that's a hot topic wrt the new video processors.

larry

HI,

I saw the Samsung RPTV 1080p DLP's at Magnolia yesterday and I was greatly underwhelmed. They looked very grainy and lots of pixelization. (I might be a little biased about this cause I can't stand digital image compared to my crt. )

God bless...

Mark

Jason Yeo- Which do you find better the Pioneer 989AVi(DV79) or your Denon DVD-A1XV (DVD-5910) on the S4? As a Denon DVD-3910 owner I am looking at upgrading to the A1XV due to its Denon Link output for my Denon AVR and its Realta processing. But if the Pioneer is better I will use the ILink from it and I saw some screenshots of the Pioneer going into a Sony Ruby and it looks quite nice.

The Denon A1XV is definately better than the pioneer 989/79 . Pioneer 989/79 still has chroma bugs + no NR . Denon A1XV/5910 built in NR is really something special and make some DVD movies close to hidef(at least to me :rolleyes: )

I also prefer Denon sound more than pioneer . I am waiting for the vantage HD and will compare again . I still find some artifacts using pioneer 989/79 hdmi 480i component direct mode to S4 (using gennum to upscale) . I want to use the vantage to confirm if this is due to gennum processing or .... Maybe Realta can solve the problem :)

what is the chroma bug issue i just got the79 and i have watched a few movies including finging nemo and i cant find any issue with the 79 to fault the picture is just amazing

Hi all,
Forgive the intrusion, but I'm trying to drum up entries into the new sticky thread I created the other day: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=611824

It's a thread intented for people looking for a new player (or help with an existing one) to quickly find other people using a DVD player with the same TV/display/PJ they are using. The format is quite simple and only takes a couple of minutes to enter your info. "templates" are there to copy/quote. Thanks for taking the time.

larry

The Denon A1XV is definately better than the pioneer 989/79 . Pioneer 989/79 still has chroma bugs + no NR . Denon A1XV/5910 built in NR is really something special and make some DVD movies close to hidef(at least to me :rolleyes: )

I also prefer Denon sound more than pioneer . I am waiting for the vantage HD and will compare again . I still find some artifacts using pioneer 989/79 hdmi 480i component direct mode to S4 (using gennum to upscale) . I want to use the vantage to confirm if this is due to gennum processing or .... Maybe Realta can solve the problem :)Yes, but the Pio 79 + an Algolith Mosquito is in the same ballpark price-wise with the added benefit of having the Mosquito being able to do it's thing on Satellite (etc) as well.

The Denon A1XV is definately better than the pioneer 989/79 . Pioneer 989/79 still has chroma bugs + no NR . Denon A1XV/5910 built in NR is really something special and make some DVD movies close to hidef(at least to me :rolleyes: )


I thought the 59 and 79avi both have Noise Reduction features - aren't there some NR sliders in the menu, or do they not actually do anything?

I remember when I tested the 59ai I didn't find the NR options did much in the way of improving the image on the HQV test disk, but it does technically have NR right? (....Even if it doesn't work well :confused: )

But yeah, that 5910, what a beast. Nice player. I'd love to see one - I have no doubt it does many things better than the 79avi.

Guys, how is the 79AVi WITHOUT any other scaler , straight to a Mitsubishi 1080P and outputing 1080I? I am a bit concerned reading all these posts about Algolith, DVDO, etc... Does it mean that the 79 is not so good without extra muscles?

Thanks

Sergio

Guys, how is the 79AVi WITHOUT any other scaler , straight to a Mitsubishi 1080P and outputing 1080I? I am a bit concerned reading all these posts about Algolith, DVDO, etc... Does it mean that the 79 is not so good without extra muscles?

Thanks

Sergioi have asked also about outboard scalers i have my 79 hooked up to a sharp dt-300 with hdmi cable and honestly can not see how it could look anybetter i compared the 79 with my 318 upscaled throgh componett both machines out putting 720p and there was no dought the 79 was in a class of it's own . if theres a real bennifit to a out board scaler i hope someone will explain it to me!

Thanks lewis1. You made my day since I just ordered my 79 and hope it performs well without extra gadgets.

i have asked also about outboard scalers i have my 79 hooked up to a sharp dt-300 with hdmi cable and honestly can not see how it could look anybetter i compared the 79 with my 318 upscaled throgh componett both machines out putting 720p and there was no dought the 79 was in a class of it's own . if theres a real bennifit to a out board scaler i hope someone will explain it to me!


The 59AVi has a great PQ when upconverting to 1080i and I assume the 79AVi
is at least as good in that regard,

But the reason why many people in the Video Processor Forum like the
59AVi/79AVi is because it is one of the very few DVD players that output
480i over HDMI making it ideal for an outboard scaler. Those who use
an good outboard scaler claim it is a very noticable improvement in PQ
over the 1080i from the 59AVi/79AVi.

The 59AVi has a great PQ when upconverting to 1080i and I assume the 79AVi
is at least as good in that regard,

But the reason why many people in the Video Processor Forum like the
59AVi/79AVi is because it is one of the very few DVD players that output
480i over HDMI making it ideal for an outboard scaler. Those who use
an good outboard scaler claim it is a very noticable improvement in PQ
over the 1080i from the 59AVi/79AVi.
i thoght 720p was better than 1080i?

i thoght 720p was better than 1080i?

It depends on which TV you have. I would try both outputs to see which
one looks better to you...

I agree with Tony. You can not know for sure if 720p or 1080i will produce a superior image.

I found the NEC HT1000 1024x768 DLP did the best with a 1980i source. However, my current Sony HS-51 works best with 720p.

It all comes down to how well the projector processing deals with the 1080i signal.

Try both.

Thanks ! i'll go do some more playing anyone no how to properly display non anamorphic dvds i watched true lies the picture was great but it was extremly wide on my 318 it had a cool zoom feature but i can not figure it out on the 79