Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi [Text View] - Page 3

mimason

12-04-05, 07:45 AM

Here is my preliminary $.02:

I used Monsters Inc to test for the Alt Flag 3:2 Chroma error and there is still a flicker there so this is not one of the MPEG improvements purported to have occured. I have not seen a problem with Chroma ICP though, yet. Can anyone else confirm this or recommend test scene? I did use the intro chapter in DVE and did not see any problems. The end of the coaster scene would cause Chroma errors with my SP1000.

The layer change could be a lot better too. I'd say it's a tad over 1 second. The sp1000 that I compared it against was slightly faster. Is this really an improvement over the 59? I don't think so.

From memory I thought the 59avi to be a fast navigator but the 79 is a little sluggish when fast forwarding and then hitting play. Really this is not a big deal but it is not as quick as the sp1000. It reminds me of the 3910 but perhaps a little faster.

I am glad Elite decided to save money on the remote because it(Edited: is not that nice for a flagship player). They did put it to good use because build quality is way up over the 59avi. It appears to me that they are using a better quality case with access screws on the top like the SP1000. It's probably around 20lbs from which I understand is mostly due to a seperate power supply for audio which I will discuss at a later date. Audio is very good out of the box.

Last night I found a feature in the video setup called HDMI detail that is pretty cool. It basically allowed me to virtually eliminate all ringing on the sharpness test patter in DVE. Does the 59 have this? I have not had much time to see if there is a downside to this yet but it is very promising for those sensative to EE/ringing. I suppose the downside of this could be loss of detail. Is there any other test pattern than the sharpness pattern to better evaluate this?

Compared to the sp1000 the 79avi produces less digital noise that the Onkyo. I used the Fifth Element blue sky scene to compare. I am becoming more sensative to this after being spoiled with a relatively clean LCD FPJ. For those with a DLP this may be good to know if noise is a problem.

So far this player is great. Time permitting I will try to post more impressions.

EDIT: Added more impressions

I think there may be a filter for Chroma ICP but the 79 will still exhibit Alt Flag 3:2 errors. Of course you can eliminate the 3:2 problem by switching progressive mode from Auto 2 to ON(me thinks). I've been dabbling back and forth with a HD+ @ 480i and straight 720P to my pj.

The setting I am using for 480i HDMI to a HD+ are:
Direct setting copied to Memory 1
Contrast: set to minimum
Black: one tick down
Full range RGB
IRE: 7.5
These setting are perfect for the 79avi and HD+. I don't understand why but whites are crushed if you don't drop down contrast to min.

For HDMI 720P direct to PJ and no HD+:
Direct Memory 1 again
Conrtast min
Black: either default or down one (can't remember now)
IRE: 0
Component 12 bit
Again these are looking the best to me using HQV and DVE pattern. You can also do IRE 7.5 but then you need to switch back to Full Range RGB from 12bit setting.

I think this player is basically the same as the 59 but with a few improvements like build quality, possible chroma filtering, added YCbCr settings, and audio improvements due to a separate power supply.

The deinterlacing still shows a lot of problems in the HQV disc. The racetrack scene is pretty bad. Moire, moire and more moire. The sp1000 is much better with Si504 and Faroudja too obviously would be even better. The 79avi does the flag scene a little better than the sp1000 but let's just say the HQV team know how to make most players look bad except Teranex and Faroudja.

Just so you know I am not bashing the player. I really like it. Using it with the HD+ is awesome and it's great as a standalone too. I am merely pointing out my observations so others may benefit from it if at all :).

jsonmc

12-04-05, 08:55 AM

i have asked also about outboard scalers i have my 79 hooked up to a sharp dt-300 with hdmi cable and honestly can not see how it could look anybetter i compared the 79 with my 318 upscaled throgh componett both machines out putting 720p and there was no dought the 79 was in a class of it's own . if theres a real bennifit to a out board scaler i hope someone will explain it to me!

I posted this on AC and it helped clear things up for me-

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=23508

Geof

12-04-05, 10:46 AM

I do not have a mosquito but I believe it is much more better than Realta NR :) . But the best is still using Dragonfly+D.mosquito or vantage+D.mosquito combo . I still prefer Realta deintelacing . After being able to compare most of the current chips , I think I am totally leaning towards Realta chip now . Already preorder the Vantage HD to combo with pioneer 989/79 :pI'll be very interested to read your impressions of the 989/79 thru the Vantage HD. I thought about the 5910 because of it's NR and scaler. I could have even gotten one at a decent price. The problem for me with that solution is that it only works on DVD's. The Mosquito/Dragonfly solution costs more but it in the end it works for all sources (since I am in the process of building a home with a dedicated HT I concluded the Mosquito/Dragonfly solution would be the way to go once I get the HT setup).

lewis1

12-04-05, 11:57 AM

I posted this on AC and it helped clear things up for me-

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=23508
thanks for the link .

Rob Tomlin

12-04-05, 12:04 PM

lewis1

12-04-05, 12:15 PM

well i done some more viewing last night more playing and adjusting
got the pioneer set to direct
dt-300 video adjustments set to 0 gamma set to 1
white emphasis off
color temp 8500k
outputing 720p on dvd player the projector for some reason displays HTPC insteade of 720p dont no whats going on there but the player says 720p
the picture is still incrediable i personally dont think i need sn external scaler i will put money elseware.
the only thing i have seen as far as artifcts is when watching shangh high knight the sky scene i saw what looked like mosquito noise also saw it in the bright white scens but so far only on this title i think that it might of just been the qualitty of that transfer .
if anyone here has some advice on setting up the video adjustments to improve it better please let me no .
:D

jcg

12-04-05, 12:23 PM

There is no HDMI button on the front panel, only a progressive/interlaced button which turns on 480p for the component outputs. Still can't get HDMI to work so anyone else have any ideas. Is the grayed out setup menu just supposed to come on when you plug in an HDMI display?

jcg

Isn't there a front panel HDMI setup button of some sort?
I'm sure you're problem is just in the setup and not with compatibility... at least I hope so.

dc

lewis1

12-04-05, 01:31 PM

Rob were is the hdmi detail feature are you talking about direct mode

PooperScooper

12-04-05, 01:59 PM

mimason,
What resolution(s) were you using? If the HDMI detail is "useable" with 480i, then there is no such thing as direct mode. At least not the "direct mode" people with external scalers desire or those who want "source" (MPEG decoded raw bits) output.

larry

mimason

12-04-05, 02:28 PM

lewis1

12-04-05, 02:39 PM

whats the difference in full rgb and 12 bit component i am using a hdmi to dvi cable and it don't give me that choice wich is better?

brt3

12-04-05, 04:27 PM

...The Mosquito/Dragonfly solution costs more but it in the end it works for all sources (since I am in the process of building a home with a dedicated HT I concluded the Mosquito/Dragonfly solution would be the way to go once I get the HT setup).Have a MosquitoHDMI/Dragonfly combo on order; if Algolith will just ship the d*mn things I will report back here. Will be using them with both DV-59AVi and DV-79AVi, and will let people know how the two compare. Really, Penton-Man -- I swear! Know anyone at Sony who knows someone at Algolith?

Penton-Man

12-04-05, 04:32 PM

And that's not all... A little bird told me I should be able to try a Gennum scaler and a Realta HQV scaler pretty soon also... :D

It's really Christmas! All those new toys to play with... ;)
Will you please adopt me?

As an added bonus, Je parle francais! :)

Penton-Man

12-04-05, 04:33 PM

Have a MosquitoHDMI/Dragonfly combo on order; if Algolith will just ship the d*mn things I will report back here. Will be using them with both DV-59AVi and DV-79AVi, and will let people know how the two compare. Really, Penton-Man -- I swear! Know anyone at Sony who knows someone at Algolith?

Hey,

I’m just trying to get into the pre-screening of The Geisha this week before it hits the theaters for the masses. :eek:

Go on over to 006, I'm ready to post somethin to the Qualians.

PooperScooper

12-04-05, 04:55 PM

whats the difference in full rgb and 12 bit component i am using a hdmi to dvi cable and it don't give me that choice wich is better? With DVI your only option is RGB (8bit).

larry

Penton-Man

12-04-05, 04:58 PM

Hi all,
Forgive the intrusion, but I'm trying to drum up entries into the new sticky thread I created the other day: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=611824

It's a thread intented for people looking for a new player (or help with an existing one) to quickly find other people using a DVD player with the same TV/display/PJ they are using. The format is quite simple and only takes a couple of minutes to enter your info. "templates" are there to copy/quote. Thanks for taking the time.

larry
GREAT idea!

Thanks for taking the time and initiative to start this new thread. :)

lewis1

12-04-05, 06:23 PM

With DVI your only option is RGB (8bit).

larry
i am using full range rgb

also if i had a projector with hdmi then i would be able to use 12 bit any advantage here thanks aint dvd just 8 bit anyway thanks please fill me in on this subject thanks

Hillie

12-04-05, 06:50 PM

The Denon A1XV is definately better than the pioneer 989/79 . Pioneer 989/79 still has chroma bugs + no NR . Denon A1XV/5910 built in NR is really something special and make some DVD movies close to hidef(at least to me )

Forgive me but this opinion about the 989/79 really surprises me. I wonder how the 989/79 was setup. Out of the box, the setting of the 989/79 can be far from optimal for a particular output device (TV/Plasma/Projector/...). You should adjust the interlacer of the 989/79 (for component and HDMI!) that is most optimal for your output device. In the optimal setting you should not see any croma bugs with the VQ9.

Because croma bugs have been seen on the 989/79, I doubt that the Denon A1XV and the Pioneer 989/79 have been seriously compared with comparable settings. Considering the price of the Denon, I would expect that the Denon is better, but only slightly better than the 989/79. Of course, audio is often a matter of taste.

Jason Yeo

12-04-05, 09:38 PM

Forgive me but this opinion about the 989/79 really surprises me. I wonder how the 989/79 was setup. Out of the box, the setting of the 989/79 can be far from optimal for a particular output device (TV/Plasma/Projector/...). You should adjust the interlacer of the 989/79 (for component and HDMI!) that is most optimal for your output device. In the optimal setting you should not see any croma bugs with the VQ9.

Because croma bugs have been seen on the 989/79, I doubt that the Denon A1XV and the Pioneer 989/79 have been seriously compared with comparable settings. Considering the price of the Denon, I would expect that the Denon is better, but only slightly better than the 989/79. Of course, audio is often a matter of taste.

I know we can adjust the chroma delay but chroma bugs :confused: Please advise , thanks . I know some video processors like iscan HD/+ has the feature to cure the chroma bugs but pioneer 989/79 ....... :confused:

PooperScooper

12-04-05, 09:55 PM

i am using full range rgb

also if i had a projector with hdmi then i would be able to use 12 bit any advantage here thanks aint dvd just 8 bit anyway thanks please fill me in on this subject thanks Yes, DVDs are 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0. The MPEG decoder will upsample to 4:2:2. For 480i, it's up to the deinterlacer/scaler (in DVD player or PJ) to create 10 or 12bit color components. This "12bit" option is still confusing/unknown. I havent read about any displays that will accept 12bit YCbCr 4:2:2. Quite a few will accept 10bit. However, like mentioned before, the 2 HDMI options may be referring to YCbCr 4:2:2 and 4:4:4. The 4:4:4 is 8bits per component and 4:2:2 is actually sent using 12bits per component, but only 8 or 10bits usually contain data. So for 480i, it really shouldn't matter because only 8bit data is needed. For deinterlaced/scaled output, the 12bit option should be used and, IIRC, the 79avi will output 10bit video.

With the full range RGB, do you see the BTB bars with DVE? I can't remember if full or normal range is the correct setting.

larry

lewis1

12-04-05, 10:03 PM

Yes, DVDs are 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0. The MPEG decoder will upsample to 4:2:2. For 480i, it's up to the deinterlacer/scaler (in DVD player or PJ) to create 10 or 12bit color components. This "12bit" option is still confusing/unknown. I havent read about any displays that will accept 12bit YCbCr 4:2:2. Quite a few will accept 10bit. However, like mentioned before, the 2 HDMI options may be referring to YCbCr 4:2:2 and 4:4:4. The 4:4:4 is 8bits per component and 4:2:2 is actually sent using 12bits per component, but only 8 or 10bits usually contain data. So for 480i, it really shouldn't matter because only 8bit data is needed. For deinterlaced/scaled output, the 12bit option should be used and, IIRC, the 79avi will output 10bit video.

With the full range RGB, do you see the BTB bars with DVE? I can't remember if full or normal range is the correct setting.

larryi don;t have dve do i need to get it ?

lewis1

12-04-05, 10:08 PM

i found the hdmi detail it is in the custom menu i;m affraid to mess with those controls i have mine set to direct and the picture looks great

gandley

12-04-05, 10:18 PM

cyclocommuter

12-04-05, 10:45 PM

PooperScooper

12-04-05, 10:58 PM

Larry, I got my HDMI set to 12 bits. BTB bars don't appear when I use the "Direct" settings... I have to set IRE to 7.5 to "see" BTB. It appears the 79Avi is very similar to 59AVi in this respect. I will be trying full range RGB when I find the time. I have basically found the setting that looks perfect to me which I posted on the AVS members player / display thread that you started. Thanks for the info. It could be that the 79avi is not that much different than the 59avi. Nobody that I've seen has confirmed that the 59avi can send YCbCr via HDMI, so YCbCr output may be one of the few changes - and 10bit output is now possible. Also, it really bothers me that there is an IRE setting for HDMI unless it's a way they work in PC vs Video digital output settings.

larry

cyclocommuter

12-04-05, 11:04 PM

i found the hdmi detail it is in the custom menu i;m affraid to mess with those controls i have mine set to direct and the picture looks great

You can't mess with "direct" as it is a fixed setting along with 2 others. What you can do is to transfer "direct" to memory 1, 2 or 3 and adjust those programmable settings. It is then very easy to do a comparison of the various settings that you have programmed and compare them to the factory built-in settings (direct, enhanced, etc.) real time on the movies you are watching.

You can press the "Display" button on the upper left hand of the remote when you are in the setup mode to switch the menu display from almost full screen to just one line so you can tweak each setting and see how it affects the picture.

I usually pause on a scene on the dvd that has lots of details / colors and then launch the Video OSD and do a comparison of the built-in and programmed settings. This is what IMHO makes the Pioneer superior to my el-cheapo Samsung player... it's programmability and relatively intuitive user interface (UI).

jcg

12-05-05, 12:39 AM

Still hoping for some help on this? Anyone using HDMI?

jcg

There is no HDMI button on the front panel, only a progressive/interlaced button which turns on 480p for the component outputs. Still can't get HDMI to work so anyone else have any ideas. Is the grayed out setup menu just supposed to come on when you plug in an HDMI display?

jcg

lewis1

12-05-05, 01:31 AM

You can't mess with "direct" as it is a fixed setting along with 2 others. What you can do is to transfer "direct" to memory 1, 2 or 3 and adjust those programmable settings. It is then very easy to do a comparison of the various settings that you have programmed and compare them to the factory built-in settings (direct, enhanced, etc.) real time on the movies you are watching.

You can press the "Display" button on the upper left hand of the remote when you are in the setup mode to switch the menu display from almost full screen to just one line so you can tweak each setting and see how it affects the picture.

I usually pause on a scene on the dvd that has lots of details / colors and then launch the Video OSD and do a comparison of the built-in and programmed settings. This is what IMHO makes the Pioneer superior to my el-cheapo Samsung player... it's programmability and relatively intuitive user interface (UI).
Thanks for the info did what you said i'm using full rgb and during phantom menace i noticed somtimes the images looked blurry so i went to tweaking like you said doing so just by sight and i swear i did not think i could have gotten a better pictur but i did i set black level to 0 it looked better to me whats the difference on it also pooperscouper said the 79 will output 10 bit and 12 bit how do you do that thanks

lewis1

12-05-05, 01:33 AM

also what is the best setting for pure cinema?

Jason Yeo

12-05-05, 03:04 AM

actually you have to be carefull with the Denon 5910s (A1xv) NR settings as i found when i had it that using them was great untill you put up a test pattern and found they added some serious ringing and edge enhancment. I found i had to back the settings down and use the NR very slightly. Think also Kriss deerings posted this somewhere as well. But you cant just Krank up the NR and think wonders are happening. These NR settings are not the same as the terranex filters and should not be confused with them.

HDMI Detail setting for the pioneer is found in the memory presets and is the very last one which on first look is off screen, you have to scroll down the menu till it appears.
I did not think the A1xv was a huge amount better. Deinterlacing and motion are better, but even side by side i doubt there would be much init, but of course i would favour the Denon if there was not such a huge price premium. That premium pays for the vantage HD to partner with the pioneer and i may still get change, at least in the UK anyway

I have both players so I sometimes compare them side by side . I can say on certain... nope is most of the DVDs , 5910 is really a huge improvement if we are talking about error free and grainy/noisy PQ DVD .

I understand the NR on 5910 which myself tried it and see the EE , I always put it at +1 only . Even detail enhancement will create some artifacts if setting too high. I put it at +2 the most but usally watch at 0(default) .

Sorry OT already . Maybe we should just discuss the pioneer 989/79 .

Kage

12-05-05, 03:51 AM

PooperScooper

12-05-05, 07:16 AM

Still hoping for some help on this? Anyone using HDMI?

jcg What is on the other end? Does having the display power up before or after the DVD player make a difference? Make sure the display HDMI input is selected.

larry

GotWAF!

12-05-05, 08:21 AM

I am glad Elite decided to save money on the remote because it sucks.

What exactly about the remote don't you like? Personally I like the remote. IMO it is much better than the 2910's remote. The buttons are well placed and the jog wheel, although it takes a little getting used to, works well. I also like the ability to change the tv input.

Just Curious,

Kelly

cyclocommuter

12-05-05, 08:33 AM

Thanks for the info did what you said i'm using full rgb and during phantom menace i noticed somtimes the images looked blurry so i went to tweaking like you said doing so just by sight and i swear i did not think i could have gotten a better pictur but i did i set black level to 0 it looked better to me whats the difference on it also pooperscouper said the 79 will output 10 bit and 12 bit how do you do that thanks

As I mentioned in the other thread for players / display, I found the image a little on the soft side after I turned off DNIE on my Samsung display (because of what I percieve as the appearance of some EE). To compensate and make the image a little sharper I set HDMI Details to max and Details to 75%... their defaults are 50% and 0% respectively. I left the other 2 sharpness settings at their default 50%.

Changing HDMI settings is in the "Initial Settings" menu... you can choose from 4 options including HDMI 12-bit. I have not yet compared these from each other and I am just using the default 12-bit setting.

mimason

12-05-05, 08:39 AM

GOTWAF,
Re: romote
IMHO. It's cheap plastic and is not backlit. The keys are too small and it for the most part is not well laid out. Fortunately, the stop, pause, ff, rw and skip keys are not botched. Glad you are happy though as it is still functional and better than the some other remotes. It should be better for a Flagship player. Fortunately, I rarely use the supplied remotes with players. I use a much nicer programmable remote.

You've just opened up an opportunity for someone else to respond to this post who did not read the whole context of my original post where I said I am glad they saved money to put into build quality of the player itself. :)

cyclocommuter

12-05-05, 08:40 AM

A week ago I purchased the DV-79AVi at ABT Electronics website and I am noticing jaggy lines on 720p in movies, not in 480p or 1080i. My display is a Sharp Aquos 37 inch LCD with a resolution of 1366x768. I am using Direct mode with IRE 7.5 setting in DV-79AVi. Does anyone notice that 720p gives jaggy lines to their display. A good example to show the jaggy lines is in the DVE dvd at the Audio/video demonstation part. The scene is the restaurant. Look at the lady's white jacket while watching this scene.

Is there anyware to get rid of the jaggies in 720p besides switching to 480p or 1080i? is my 79avi 720p mode defective? If it is defective, I might have to wait about 2 weeks for a replacement.

That image of the lady in the restaurant (still) is actually one of the images I used to calibrate my 79AVi... I did not notice any jaggies at all... as a matter of fact it was a little soft which is why I maxed out HDMI Details and increased the Details levels. Perhaps you have your "sharpness" level turned too high on your LCD display. I found out that having DNIE set to ON on my display was causing some EE (DNIE is a Samsung algorithm that increases sharpness).

cyclocommuter

12-05-05, 08:45 AM

.

What exactly about the remote don't you like? Personally I like the remote. IMO it is much better than the 2910's remote. The buttons are well placed and the jog wheel, although it takes a little getting used to, works well. I also like the ability to change the tv input.

Just Curious,

Kelly

GotWafi I concur, this is one of the best remotes I have used so far... well laid out and easy to use with the menu options easily navigated by the thumb stick. Video setting is also easily accesible by the click of a button. This is truly a case when less (buttons) is more.

mimason

12-05-05, 09:01 AM

Now that we've concurred that the remote is great can we just talk about the player? Do I need to edit my original post and say the remote does not suck? I think I will. I should have chosen a better word.

Read the bottom of post #541. See, I told you so.

GotWAF!

12-05-05, 09:52 AM

I am very happy with and enjoying the 79 as well. Best picture I've seen yet over component on my RPTV CRT.

I do agree about the remote backlighting, however. The "glow" doesn't work for my 45 year old eyes. ;)

Kelly

jcg

12-05-05, 11:20 AM

I have a Panny AE900 projector (which works with a Sony NS70). I have tried powering up the projector first and then the 79AVi, and the projector is set to HDMI. There is nothing else that has to be done? The 79AVi should just have the HDMI settings section of the setup menu un-grayed out if it sees something connected to the HDMI input? I do have a 50 ft HDMI cable, but as I said it works with the other player so the cable should be OK.

jcg

What is on the other end? Does having the display power up before or after the DVD player make a difference? Make sure the display HDMI input is selected.

larry

PooperScooper

12-05-05, 11:40 AM

I have a Panny AE900 projector (which works with a Sony NS70). I have tried powering up the projector first and then the 79AVi, and the projector is set to HDMI. There is nothing else that has to be done? The 79AVi should just have the HDMI settings section of the setup menu un-grayed out if it sees something connected to the HDMI input? I do have a 50 ft HDMI cable, but as I said it works with the other player so the cable should be OK.

jcgIf possible, try it with a shorter cable just for grins. It may that the player that works has a slightly stronger HDMI "signal" for whatever reason. You are at a length where little things like this matter. You wouldn't be the first to experience this.

larry

audiovue

12-05-05, 12:21 PM

Reinitialize your dvd 79avi (Reset)
If you start (The first time)Pio elite 79avi before pluging cables, or starting Projo. the hdmi setup grayed.
And do not start.

Remede: reseting and adjust hdmi setup :) ...

jcg

12-05-05, 02:36 PM

To reset you just need to unplug power? No reset button on the back or in settings that I saw? Anyways I'll play around with it a bit more and report back.

jcg

Reinitialize your dvd 79avi (Reset)
If you start (The first time)Pio elite 79avi before pluging cables, or starting Projo. the hdmi setup grayed.
And do not start.

Remede: reseting and adjust hdmi setup :) ...

Penton-Man

12-05-05, 03:41 PM

Hi all,
Forgive the intrusion, but I’m trying to enlighten people regarding a new thread that I created today……
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6660894&&#post6660894

It’s a thread intended for people looking for a timetable in purchasing a new Blu-ray player and certain titles available at the time of debut of this machine to complement their current DVD player and DVD library for home theater enjoyment. Thanks for taking the time.

Penton

GCG

12-05-05, 09:18 PM

Thanks lewis1. You made my day since I just ordered my 79 and hope it performs well without extra gadgets.

I've been following this thread with great interest after having my eyes on the Yamaha DVD-S2500 for a while. I think now I know what I want for Christmas :)

Sergio, may I ask where you ordered your 79 from? I live in the Miami area too.

Thanks everybody for all the great info.

slimoli

12-05-05, 10:53 PM

I've been following this thread with great interest after having my eyes on the Yamaha DVD-S2500 for a while. I think now I know what I want for Christmas :)

Sergio, may I ask where you ordered your 79 from? I live in the Miami area too.

Thanks everybody for all the great info.

I ordered mine from Sound Advice in Aventura. They expect to have it in the warehouse by Friday , Dec 9.

Sergio

MickB

12-06-05, 11:41 PM

Has anyone made their 79 region free?

wilfredw

12-07-05, 04:03 AM

FWIW hkflix is now selling a region free 79avi.

But their website states that it does not convert PAL->NTSC

jcg

12-07-05, 11:14 AM

So I unplugged the 79AVi and moved it out of the entertainment center down to a floor stand, replugged in the cables and HDMI starts working. I unplug the HDMI cables a few times and replug in and everything is fine. So I figure it must have been the power cycle, move everything back into the entertainment center, and it doesn't work again. So played with a few things to debug the issue, and the problem is the actual seating of the HDMI cable.

As I said it's a 50 ft cable and it's thick and heavy. When in the entertainment rack the cable is supported so there is no downward pressure, and it doesn't work unless I actually push down a bit on the cable and get it to stay in that position. I'm thinking I may have just gotten a bum 79AVi which is touchy with the connector. Anyone else having any issues like this? The good news is that it isn't a HDCP issue with the Panny AE900.

jcg

To reset you just need to unplug power? No reset button on the back or in settings that I saw? Anyways I'll play around with it a bit more and report back.

jcg

Ktulu_1

12-07-05, 11:22 AM

The HDMI plug sucks! I see lots of problems like this in the future, not necessarily with Pioneer DVDs but in general.

EDITED TO ADD: Of course there might be something wrong with your player, but it doesn't change the fact that the HDMI connector sucks.

xoba

12-07-05, 11:59 AM

FWIW hkflix is now selling a region free 79avi.

But their website states that it does not convert PAL->NTSC

mindlogic as well. How are the feedbacks about mindlogic ? good ?

cyclocommuter

12-07-05, 12:08 PM

So I unplugged the 79AVi and moved it out of the entertainment center down to a floor stand, replugged in the cables and HDMI starts working. I unplug the HDMI cables a few times and replug in and everything is fine. So I figure it must have been the power cycle, move everything back into the entertainment center, and it doesn't work again. So played with a few things to debug the issue, and the problem is the actual seating of the HDMI cable.

As I said it's a 50 ft cable and it's thick and heavy. When in the entertainment rack the cable is supported so there is no downward pressure, and it doesn't work unless I actually push down a bit on the cable and get it to stay in that position. I'm thinking I may have just gotten a bum 79AVi which is touchy with the connector. Anyone else having any issues like this? The good news is that it isn't a HDCP issue with the Panny AE900.

jcg

Check out this article from PCWorld about cables: The Cable Game (http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121777,pg,2,00.asp)

It is a comparison of various HDMI cables. The irony is that the thicker, heavier cable was the one that appeared to have problems as its weight and stiffness was sometimes pulling the cable loose from the HDMI connector.

I don't think it is an AV79Avi issue at all...

PooperScooper

12-07-05, 01:28 PM

Unfortunately the connectors for HDMI are its biggest detriment. You may need to employ the universal solution - duct tape! :)

larry

brt3

12-07-05, 03:18 PM

Unfortunately the connectors for HDMI are its biggest detriment. You may need to employ the universal solution - duct tape! :) larryI don't know why in God's name they didnt' deploy a positive locking connector for the HDMI standard (ala BNC). Oh -- I know -- woulda added 15 cents per unit...
:mad:

PooperScooper

12-07-05, 05:30 PM

I don't know why in God's name they didnt' deploy a positive locking connector for the HDMI standard (ala BNC). Oh -- I know -- woulda added 15 cents per unit...
:mad: You're right. I'm sure they could have thought of some type of "lock" even with the requirement of keeping it small and carry the same number of pins. The only reason not to use DVI connectors was size, but at least you could lock them in place (and had a much tighter fit without the screws).

larry

thedeskE

12-07-05, 05:31 PM

GOTWAF,
Re: romote
IMHO. It's cheap plastic and is not backlit. The keys are too small and it for the most part is not well laid out. Fortunately, the stop, pause, ff, rw and skip keys are not botched. Glad you are happy though as it is still functional and better than the some other remotes. It should be better for a Flagship player. Fortunately, I rarely use the supplied remotes with players. I use a much nicer programmable remote.
:)

Same here - I use the factory remote just long enough to see what I need for my master. I remember the 59 remote being rather lackluster as well. Big Deal ;)

Joining the owners club soon (when ever I get time to visit my guy - unit waiting local)

E

Geof

12-07-05, 05:34 PM

I don't know why in God's name they didnt' deploy a positive locking connector for the HDMI standard (ala BNC). Oh -- I know -- woulda added 15 cents per unit...
:mad:AFAIR the HDMI org is working on a backward compatibile locking connector.

tvyankee

12-07-05, 07:02 PM

does anyone know if this player converts dsd to pcm or does it keep the dsd stream intact?

hifienthusiast

12-07-05, 07:28 PM

I too own one the Elite 79 DVD player and have to say it surpasses my expectations, I was a very fond owner of Denon 3910 and switched up, love the shuttle feature on the remote more user friendly in my opinion.

[I removed your "advertisement". No selling in forums except the "For Sale" forum"... larry]

gandley

12-07-05, 09:08 PM

the chroma bug thing is doing my noggin in abit as it seems to be a bit random.

Although its barely an issue i sometimes cant figure it out, perhaps im missing something.

Toy story 2, Zero chroma issues, well i just could not see any and i was looking for them. even the red THX man at the beginning was OK.

Monsters INC, the red THX guy had very slight horizontal lines threw the bottom of his red jacket, in the film, red light exhibit a very minute trace of CUE, looks like its masked, but when it goes to a close up of the door red lights it perfect no CUE.

I thought these two films would have the same cadence (if thats the correct term but hopfully you know what i mean, the deinterlacing detection) So how can it fail one and pass the other and how come the THX guys fine in one and not the other.
Or am i just been dull

Other than that its very rare to see any chroma issues, so thats a good thing.
Increables also passed a ok

mimason

12-08-05, 12:08 AM

Added more review impressions to post #507.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6652751#post6652751

thedeskE

12-08-05, 12:47 AM

mimason

Thanks - Sounds like the player is holding well in spite of the imperfections you've uncovered so far (with your display at least)

E

jonnyozero3

12-08-05, 11:41 AM

....snip....

EDIT: Added more impressions

The deinterlacing still shows a lot of problems in the HQV disc. The racetrack scene is pretty bad. Moire, moire and more moire. The sp1000 is much better with Si504 and Faroudja too obviously would be even better. The 79avi does the flag scene a little better than the sp1000 but let's just say the HQV team know how to make most players look bad except Teranex and Faroudja.

...snip....

I remember when I tested the 59avi with my HQV disc, it seemed that it actually passed the racetrack test the first time through, only. But, once the test looped it no longer held on, and then had all the "moire, moire and more moire" as you say :P (funny, btw). Can you check and see if this is the case?

Thanks for all the impressions. I still can't wait to get mine.

tony57

12-08-05, 12:20 PM

mimason

12-08-05, 02:23 PM

I'm considering purchasing a 79avi, however, I'm concerned that my Panny will not allow color or tint adjustment over HDMI. Will I lose a lot if I connect using component? Is the lack of color adj over HDMI a problem?

Thanks,
Tony

There are color and hue adjustments on the player for HDMI in the video adjustment settings. You can download the manual on Pioneer's website.

tony57

12-08-05, 03:23 PM

There are color and hue adjustments on the player for HDMI in the video adjustment settings. You can download the manual on Pioneer's website.

So I adjust the color through the 79avi, not the TV?

mimason

12-08-05, 03:27 PM

Tony you are confusing me now. You should adjust your tv setting before the dvd player in most instances. I thought you said your display will not allow color and hue adjustment when using HDMI. I was answering your question the way you asked it I think.

tony57

12-08-05, 03:33 PM

slimoli

12-08-05, 03:47 PM

We already know that, Tony. Mimason is trying to tell you that you can adjust color and tint using the 79AVI menu. You don't need to adjust your TV. Understand now?

tony57

12-08-05, 04:21 PM

We already know that, Tony. Mimason is trying to tell you that you can adjust color and tint using the 79AVI menu. You don't need to adjust your TV. Understand now?

ok, thanks. I think I'll try to pick up a 79avi this weekend. (I was going to wait for Blu-ray, but it looks like that is at least 7 mo away)

PooperScooper

12-08-05, 04:24 PM

tony57

12-08-05, 04:40 PM

Tony,
What have you done to determine you need to adjust color/tint on HDMI? If the color decoder in the Panny is accurate, you don't need to adjust. Color adjustments in the player should be done as a last resort - calibrating a display to react properly to input (hopefully correct/accurate) is preferable to having the player modify the data coming from the DVD to match what the display can/can't do.

larry

I haven't purchased the 79avi yet, but I was concerned that that the inability to adjust color through the panny HDMI might be a problem (I'm planning on using Avia to calibrate). My first thought was to use component outputs, but if the reason why HDMI does not adjust color is because color adjustments are not needed, then that is great.

Tony

thedeskE

12-08-05, 05:06 PM

Agree with Pooper once again ;)

My first quick impressions - out of the box my unit is impressive (solid box, etc) I expected more setup than I needed. For my display (52 first gen DILA) everything was ready via HDMI. For now I'm using the Coax DA.
First up were a few DVDs with black crush problems via HDMI / Pany S97. All gone, and looking exceptional. I left everything default for the first view, so 1080. I've yet to attempt any 720 setting (there were 2 for me i & p) and I'm a little surprised 1080 looks so clean. Looks like I can finally retire my fat component cable. Color looks very accurate, but my TV has a very good ISF cal, so no surprise. I can see quite a bit more detail. It's possible we might have to work on contrast a little, but it's very watchable right away.

Navigating is OK, but a little slow coming out of chapter change, or pause, step, etc. Nothing that really bothers me though. Forward timesX speed takes a second to kick in.

Audio via DA is a step above the 59 and the Pany. I do hear the difference between a less expensive unit and this one, or the Onkyo 1000, etc. so take it easy on me if you don't agree. I'll get the 6 wire going this weekend and check out my DVDA collection.

My ISF will pop in soon to dial in the fine stuff (I'm spoiled) but I'm shaking my head up and down. It's pretty darn good guys.

E

Update - testing 720 and back to 1080 on my TV was interesting. I couldn't see the difference. I could probably talk myself into seeing something, but it's too close. I'll know more once we dial in for this player, and pass more material. Some fresh eyes will help, but it's probably the fact that I'm using a small display.
My ISFs 50,000.00 toy box will tell the tale.
E

Bill Mac

12-09-05, 08:04 AM

thedeskE

12-09-05, 08:16 AM

Bill

Doc (Josh) is my guy local. I can only speak from a few months of memory (it's been a while since the 59 was here), but so far it looks and sounds like an improvement. As to what amount?
I'll be happy to post his thoughts after we have a session with the 79 here. He has certainly set up quite a few 59s on many different displays. I'll be seeing him soon for other business.

E

Bill Mac

12-09-05, 08:27 AM

Bill

Doc (Josh) is my guy local. I can only speak from a few months of memory (it's been a while since the 59 was here), but so far it looks and sounds like an improvement.
I'll be happy to post his thoughts after we have a session with the 79 here. He has certainly set up quite a few 59s on many different displays. I'll be seeing him soon for other business.

E

E,

Thanks I would appreciate that. I must admit I will probably go with the 79 but to hear it from forum members like yourself who have much more knowledge and experience than I do is very helpful. Also Josh's thoughts would be great as well, my two brief phone calls with him were very helpful when I bought the 74.

Thanks again, Bill

thedeskE

12-09-05, 08:31 AM

Bill

Let's not make any claim about my knowledge here. I just play with the gear like everybody else, and hope for the best.
On occasion, I get lucky and something looks good ;)

Josh's opinion should be solid info.

E

mimason

12-09-05, 08:38 AM

Bill Mac

12-09-05, 09:08 AM

BillMac,

I don't have a 59 anymore to ab with but another member named Levesque felt the 79 was a improvement over the 59. He specifically stated less ringing.

If you read other posts and my impressions in post #507 there are some comments there that refer to better build quality, separate audio power supply and some add'l HDMI color settings.

mimason,

I went back and read #507 very informative. I will be using component for now without any type of outboard processor. As far as outboard processors go I see a number of people using them mostly with PJ systems with large screens. Is the advantage of these processors mostly for larger screen applications opposed to someone like myself on a 42" plasma (hopefully a 50" in the near future)?

Thanks for your help, Bill

mimason

12-09-05, 09:34 AM

If your plasma has a average or poor scaler then a outboard processor will offer a nice improvement. The fact that a processor can scale to your native resolution and also do it via component is a great feature. This is off topic but you can learn a lot more in the video processor threads.

Bill Mac

12-09-05, 10:40 AM

LamJNS

12-09-05, 11:22 AM

[QUOTE=jonnyozero3]The only reason I think that one of these formats may stick around is because of the PS3. When that ships, there will suddenly be millions of blu-ray players all around the globe. I think that any studio that won't make content available to such a large market is making a mistake.
QUOTE]

OK, just because they may ship 100million/billion PS3 units doesn't mean anything.

It doesn't mean people will use the PS3 for HD content. Most gamers are kids and teenagers who won't go out and buy an HD capable Plasma/LCD/Projection TV just so they can see everything in HD, and average adults don't see the difference, not to mention not enough content/programming to justify buying an HDTV for many more years to come.
So where is the benefit I ask, they will buy more expensive Blue Ray HD content movies/media so they can down convert back to 480i on their not so advanced analog/digital tube TV?
This is exactly why studios are not promising anything solid for either format and keep jumping from one side to the other as soon as the wind blows in the different direction. They don't want to invest in something that is not going to be mass market accepted. Remember how DVD's started off? First there was discovery type stuff on DVD's everything was super expensive, then small unknown films and nitch market content such as training video's and science shows.
It took almost two years for Hollywood to jump on the DVD wagon. This type of technology is tricky.

PooperScooper

12-09-05, 11:33 AM

Let's stay focused on the 79avi and (possible) connections to it. Thanks.

larry

millerwill

12-09-05, 11:39 AM

I bought a 59avi several weeks ago and am wondering if returning it for the 79avi is the way to go. I currently have the 59avi connected via component to a Panasonic 42WD6UY (no DVI blade) and although I have not had time to calibrate with DVE I find the PQ to be very good.

To upgrade to the 79avi it will cost $150.-250. if I can find one in the Boston area. Tweeter does not have them and asks for a 50% deposit to order one and Magnolia does not have any either. If I decide to go with the 79avi I will most likely go with DocDVD as I ordered my 74txvi from him (should be here today weather permitting).

So my question to anyone who has upgraded their 59avi to the 79avi is PQ and SQ that much better? I will admit I am no videophile but do not mind spending the money to get the 79avi if it is worth while.

Thanks, Bill

I also have a 59 that I'm very pleased with, but have been considering the same question you raise. From what I gather in reading these posts, however, is that the improvement in the 79 is primarily in audio (from its separate power supply, etc.) If you use the player in the 'old fashion' way (as I do--sending the video at 1080i out to the display via HDMI, and the audio out digitally to an AVR), then I've heard nothing to suggest that the 79 would be an improvement on the 59.

jonnyozero3

12-09-05, 12:01 PM

The only reason I think that one of these formats may stick around is because of the PS3. ...snip....

OK, just because they may ship 100million/billion PS3 units doesn't mean anything.
...snip....

Wow, quoting me from 388 posts ago? Damn! :p

Yeah so moving on - I was supposed to get my 79avi this week, but haven't heard anything. Boo. Has anyone in the midwest gotten their hands on one yet?

Also, Kris Deering said he is excited to test the 79AVi and hopes to have it done before Xmas. Just in case nobody noticed it in the other thread....

jonnyozero3

12-09-05, 12:05 PM

I also have a 59 that I'm very pleased with, but have been considering the same question you raise. From what I gather in reading these posts, however, is that the improvement in the 79 is primarily in audio (from its separate power supply, etc.) If you use the player in the 'old fashion' way (as I do--sending the video at 1080i out to the display via HDMI, and the audio out digitally to an AVR), then I've heard nothing to suggest that the 79 would be an improvement on the 59.

The 79avi should improve upon the video section of the 59avi as well. Levesque reported that there was less ringing or scaling artifacts. Also, there were a few reports that the layer change was slightly faster (more like 1 sec vs 1.25 I guess), but then another report contradicted that. The new VQE9 processes the image in 10-bits, which can help with color banding and false contouring on digital displays (I'm not familiar with your Mitsu). Anyhow, the video improvements are most likely incrimental and only refinements at best, but, for some it is worth the price premium.....

PooperScooper

12-09-05, 12:16 PM

The new VQE9 processes the image in 10-bits, which can help with color banding and false contouring on digital displays For video, this would seem to be the biggest reason to get the 79avi providing your display accepts 10bit video.

larry

OpusX

12-09-05, 03:45 PM

I just received my new Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi and I have some questions.

Can I use use the HDMI connection and convert this to DVI to the HD Leeza?

Will the HDMI output 480i?

Is the HDMI using HDCP?

Here's my current setup:

JVC G150CL DILA
HD Leeza
Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi

What's the best way to set this up?

Thanks in advance.

mimason

12-09-05, 05:06 PM

slimoli

12-09-05, 06:06 PM

Mimason

How do we set memory 1 to direct? I can see either direct or memory 1-3 in the menu (user manual).

thanks

Sergio

cyclocommuter

12-09-05, 06:20 PM

Mimason

How do we set memory 1 to direct? I can see either direct or memory 1-3 in the menu (user manual).

thanks

Sergio

After choosing Memory 1 from the Video Adjust options, you will be presented with a Memory 1 settings page/screen. On the "Recall Settings" options (first option on page 1 of Memory 1 settings), just select "direct"... this will load the "direct" settings to Memory 1.

Refer to image below, the Recall Settings option I am talking about is encircled in red... in this image it is set to Memory 1, change this to Direct.

http://ca.geocities.com/jaymend@rogers.com/XPioneer.jpg

HTSteve

12-09-05, 07:43 PM

I have the same question as most others, 59 or 79?

I will be feeding a DVDO VP30 with 480i over HDMI to a 7210 PJ. Will I notice a difference in Video? Theoretically, they should be the same, but I don't know if the 480i over HDMI path has been changed in the 79 over the 59.

Regarding audio, I have an older Pioneer Elite AVR with 24bit 96KHz DACs. To get improved audio, why not just send the audio via 6-channel outputs to the AVR, using the DACs in the 59 or 79. This should give you improved audio over the digital connection (using AVR DACs), unless you have a really high-end AVR.

Am I looking at this correctly?

I listen to quite a bit of music - Redbook CD and DVD-A, which is why I am leaning to the 79, but how much will I really notice? I guess I will have to wait until some local places have these side-by-side so I can easily AB.

slimoli

12-09-05, 07:45 PM

Thanks Cyclo. Couldn't be more clear.

Sergio

mfb

12-09-05, 08:00 PM

mimason

12-09-05, 08:16 PM

Refresh my memory. Have we decided on the optimum Colour setting (Full Range RGB, RGB, Comp 12bit, Comp) for the 480i HDMI output.

thanks,

marty

For DVI displays/processors you must send RGB since the 79 will only send RGB to a DVI sourse. It seems FULL RANGE RGB is best. You must then use 7.5 IRE, contrast min and black -1.

For HDMI displays I would use component 12bit, 0 IRE, contrast min, black default.

YMMV

mimason

12-09-05, 08:23 PM

mfb

12-09-05, 10:31 PM

For DVI displays/processors you must send RGB since the 79 will only send RGB to a DVI sourse. It seems FULL RANGE RGB is best. You must then use 7.5 IRE, contrast min and black -1.

For HDMI displays I would use component 12bit, 0 IRE, contrast min, black default.

YMMV

Both RGB and Comp work into a Pio plasma. For some reason I settled on comp 12bit. Thanks for the other settings. I'll run them thru DVE again.

marty

PooperScooper

12-09-05, 11:01 PM

Both RGB and Comp work into a Pio plasma. For some reason I settled on comp 12bit. Thanks for the other settings. I'll run them thru DVE again.

marty
If the Pio takes 10bit video, you want YCbCr, not RGB. I know the Pios display 10bit component color, so they probably accept it.

larry

mimason

12-09-05, 11:06 PM

Both RGB and Comp work into a Pio plasma. For some reason I settled on comp 12bit. Thanks for the other settings. I'll run them thru DVE again.

marty

Component 12bit will be the preferred setting if the 79 allows you to output it. In my setup if I go straight to my pj I would use component 12bit because the HS51 will benefit from this. However, when using the HD+ which has a DVI input the 79 will only output RBG.

slimoli

12-09-05, 11:58 PM

Can you guys tell me what would be the best settings assuming my TV is the Mitsubishi 72927 (1080P) and HDMI is the link? I have no idea about this 10 or 12 bits.

Thank you very much,

Sergio

mimason

12-10-05, 07:27 AM

Try them both out and see which one you like better. I already indicated to Marty which ones to use in post #601. Good luck.

jonnyozero3

12-10-05, 11:04 AM

I am pretty sure the 10bit processing in the 79avi would be an advantage over the 59avi for use with the vp30.

HTSteve - I agree with mimason. It would be a shame to feed the VP30 an 8bit signal - definately go with the 79avi if you can. I'm not sure if your display will benefit from it (I don't know if it processes in 10bits), but you'll be all set for a future display that does if that's not the case.

kanefsky

12-10-05, 02:02 PM

HTSteve - I agree with mimason. It would be a shame to feed the VP30 an 8bit signal - definately go with the 79avi if you can. I'm not sure if your display will benefit from it (I don't know if it processes in 10bits), but you'll be all set for a future display that does if that's not the case.
The data on the DVD is only 8-bit. The only time 10-bit would be an advantage is if the player is deinterlacing and/or scaling. In that case the interpolated data can take advantage of the extra bits. If you're using an external scaler then you would be passing the raw 480i data so there wouldn't be any advantage using 10 bits.

--
Steve

jonnyozero3

12-10-05, 02:34 PM

Oopsy. Good catch. That makes sense.

My bad :o I need to think before posting.

HeaTransfer

12-10-05, 06:38 PM

swest

12-10-05, 07:16 PM

Hey guys.

I've been playing with my DV=79 for a week or so now. It's hooked up to a Samsung HLN via HDMI/DVI. My question regarding settings:

Of the various processing options that *don't* deal with color (HDMI detail, sharpness etc), are there proper settings to remove any enhancements/processing (ie, is it the middle of the slider of HDMI detail? All left/right?). My TV doesn't properly accept 480i over DVI so direct mode doesn't work for me.

Thanks in advance.

This post is timely for me. I took the plunge on a 79AVI last night (got a pretty good deal at our local Magnolia/BestBuy store-within-a-store - they matched the Abt Electronics deal I was going to get, until Abt let me know that they wouldn't have any units until some time in January...)

So, now I have two HDMI sources (Cox Cable set top box - SA 83XX DVR - and the 79AVI.) My previous DVD player was a Samsung HD931 (DVI-out), so the matchup with the Samsung HLP-5063 was perfect - one HDMI component, and one DVI component.

I liked the convenience of watching TV via the set top box without having to fire up the sound system, since the audio was delivered along with the video over the HDMI connection. So, if given a choice of component with which I would prefer to use the HDMI->DVI converter I am about to purchase, I would pick the 79AVI, since I have to turn on the sound system for DVD watching anyway.

My question: What, if anything, do I lose if I hook up my 79AVI in this way? What are the issues that need to be considered?

Needless to say, if the video qualities of my new player would suffer in this configuration, I will hook up the set top box to the DVI input, and run the two-channel audio to my TV to maintain the simplicity of TV watching. But, is that necessary?

Thanks, in advance.

[edit] Is <this> the answer?:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6655115&&#post6655115

slimoli

12-10-05, 08:50 PM

Does anybody know what is the difference between AUTO-1 and AUTO-2?

Tks

Sergio

thedeskE

12-10-05, 09:16 PM

swest

Too bad the HDMI thru boxes are so expensive. Does any one make a 2X2? The 4X4 is half as much as the player.

congrats on the purchase

E

The_B_Man

12-10-05, 09:20 PM

I've noticed on the pioneer usa sit the MSRP is down to $1000 does anyone know if there will be a similar price drop in Canada

HeaTransfer

12-10-05, 10:11 PM

swest: best way is to experiment. You might even find that the TV has a better scaler than the DVD player - I'd check out 480i direct over HDMI vs say, 720p also over HDMI. There is that thing about color as well, but that's beyond my understanding (and indeed, equipment capability)

Sergio: guessing right now, but probably the same thing as Auto1 and Auto2 on the DV-59AVi (check out hometheater hifi). Kris Deering has generally recommended Auto2. In my experience and light experimentation I don't see much difference between the two.

Finally, I believe that CDN MSRP is $1300.

The Rang

12-10-05, 10:16 PM

According to the Pioneer Canada site MRSP is $1499.

I have spoken to 3 dealers in recent weeks and was given MRSP's of $1499, $1399 and $1299.

If I wait long enough maybe it will hit $1000 ;)

Furkmyster

12-11-05, 10:27 PM

According to the Pioneer Canada site MRSP is $1499.

I have spoken to 3 dealers in recent weeks and was given MRSP's of $1499, $1399 and $1299.

If I wait long enough maybe it will hit $1000 ;)

My dealer quoted me that $999 Canadian is likely to be coming in early January. It was marked in store on the only model at $1299 as of yesterday.

dbeck

12-12-05, 12:39 AM

I picked up the 79AVI today from Magnolia Theater in Best Buy for $899.00. This was 10% off. I just asked the manager for a discount. :)

Couj

12-12-05, 04:53 AM

If you stop a disk, eject it and then reinsert it, will the 79avi remember where you were on the disk and resume play at that spot - and if so, how many disks will it remember this for? As insignificant as this seems to some people, it is a feature that rates very highly on my WAF meter. My oppo doesn't do this and this in itself is providing me with a very good oppo(rtunity) to replace this player with a 79avi if it has this function. An upgrade I'd really like to make.

HQV

12-12-05, 08:07 AM

I do not have a mosquito but I believe it is much more better than Realta NR . But the best is still using Dragonfly+D.mosquito or vantage+D.mosquito combo . I still prefer Realta deintelacing . After being able to compare most of the current chips , I think I am totally leaning towards Realta chip now . Already preorder the Vantage HD to combo with pioneer 989/79

Jason: the 5910 has only one type of NR: temporal-recursive (TRNR). Because the Realta is programmable, some HQV products will also include another type: codec noise reduction (CNR), which is very similar to the Mosquito's MNR algorithm. While they both serve different purposes, I agree that CNR/MNR works wonders on heavily-compressed material (e.g. satellite!)

Fishhooks

12-12-05, 08:10 AM

couj:
I believe that as soon as the tray opens, all memory is lost.
I will try for you later, so if you don't here back today, assume "no-go"!

Couj

12-12-05, 08:40 AM

Doh! Given all the technology jammed into this baby, why can't it have this simple feature??

jcg

12-12-05, 12:42 PM

OK, another update on my HDMI/cable issue. It's not a touchy connector as originally thought but a touchy cable in general. I brought the 79AVi and 50 ft cable (from monoprice) back to the dealer to run some tests, and it turns out I couldnt get the 50 ft cable to work with his HDMI display and the 79AVi at all. But a shorter cable worked fine. So looks like I need to order a more expensive 50 ft cable as I went purely on price with my first order. And again this cable did work fine with a Sony NS70, so I guess the 79AVi might have slightly lower drive levels or something on their HDMI port. Anyways I was wondering if anyone here that has a 79AVi and is using a 50ft HDMI cable? If so which specific cable are you using? I looked at Ram and BlueJean and can get a 50ft HDMI cable for about 3X what I originally paid, but want to make sure that these will definately work with the 79AVi.

jcg

So I unplugged the 79AVi and moved it out of the entertainment center down to a floor stand, replugged in the cables and HDMI starts working. I unplug the HDMI cables a few times and replug in and everything is fine. So I figure it must have been the power cycle, move everything back into the entertainment center, and it doesn't work again. So played with a few things to debug the issue, and the problem is the actual seating of the HDMI cable.

As I said it's a 50 ft cable and it's thick and heavy. When in the entertainment rack the cable is supported so there is no downward pressure, and it doesn't work unless I actually push down a bit on the cable and get it to stay in that position. I'm thinking I may have just gotten a bum 79AVi which is touchy with the connector. Anyone else having any issues like this? The good news is that it isn't a HDCP issue with the Panny AE900.

jcg

PooperScooper

12-12-05, 01:10 PM

If nobody answers, IIRC, both those dealers have good return policies. If it doesn't work you may just be out-of-pocket for the shipping. If you think you'll ever be using 1080p over the same distance, you may want to think about "future proofing" - spending more money for the proper solution and be done with it. It's a crap shoot because when/if you need 1080p to go that distance, cabling solutions may be cheaper by then. Cheaper by the cost of a 50ft metal cable? Your guess is as good as mine. :)

larry

jcg

12-12-05, 01:34 PM

Excuse my ignorance but what is IIRC as I haven't seen that one before? Also I may want 1080p someday so what do you recommend for future proofing? Are you saying the 50 cables from the 2 vendors I mentioned are good enough for 1080p, or do I need to do something special? Thanks.

jcg

If nobody answers, IIRC, both those dealers have good return policies. If it doesn't work you may just be out-of-pocket for the shipping. If you think you'll ever be using 1080p over the same distance, you may want to think about "future proofing" - spending more money for the proper solution and be done with it. It's a crap shoot because when/if you need 1080p to go that distance, cabling solutions may be cheaper by then. Cheaper by the cost of a 50ft metal cable? Your guess is as good as mine. :)

larry

PooperScooper

12-12-05, 02:01 PM

IIRC = "If I recall correctly"

1080p is about the full bandwidth of a single HDMI/DVI "link". Most cables are "dual link", but I've not seen anything that uses both links. DVI, which uses the same underlying means of transporting data, TDMS, originally spec'd at 5m max length for a single link. The fact the metal cables work at more than twice the length for half the bandwidth is problaby a factor of cable properties as well as TDMS receivers and transmitters, etc. For 1080P at long distances your current choices are fiber and cat5. There is also a HDMI cable that somebody sells (or will be selling) that has amplifiers built into the HDMI connectors. At one of the shows they were demoing 1080p at 15m. Unfortunately I forget the name of the company. Kris Deering is the one that mentioned it and he may remember the company name.

larry

Bytehoven

12-12-05, 02:11 PM

http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_479.html

http://www.av-outlet.com/media/HDMI_rpt.jpg

HDMI-RPT Specifications:

· Self Powered Active Circuitry

· Works with both HDMI and DVI (DVI requires an Adapter)

· Fully HDCP Compliant

· Supports HDMI Audio and Video

· Supports Resolutions: 1080p,1080i,720p,480p,480i

· Supports Computer Resolutions: UXGA,SXGA,XGA,SVGA,VGA

· Total Transmitting Range

o 1080P – 25 Meters Total Length

o 1080i/720P – 35 Meters Total Length

· Status Indicating Lights:

· Operating Temperature: 0C to 50C (32F to 122F)

· Dimensions: 2.19” L x 1.65” W x 0.85” H

· Weight: 45g

· Includes: Mounting Bracket and Hardware

SMac770

12-12-05, 02:14 PM

Hello.

Looking at the SDI modded 59AVi and 79AVi from JVB. If I plan to run my video via SDI to a Lumagen or DVDO unit for reprocessing on the way to an Infocus 4805, and my audio via SPDIF to a Meridian 518 for reprocessing on the way to a Meridian 568.2, is there any justification for getting the 79AVi at an additional $300 over the 59AVi?

Has it been determined if the 480i HDMI output is as "pure" as the SDI output?

Thanks.

Bytehoven

12-12-05, 02:25 PM

Has it been determined if the 480i HDMI output is as "pure" as the SDI output?

I don't recall there being a clear "winner" in the 480i HDMI -vs- 480i SDI contest. In theory, good arguements can be made for either signal path.

Keep a couple of things in mind.

- An SDI connection, unless provided by the manufacturer as they are on some professional devices, is a hack. As a result there is no assurance the SDI signal is as clean as it could possibly be.

- 480i HDMI on the other hand is apart of the spec, and in the case of the 79avi, it has been specifically improved with regard to the amount of processing applied to the digital signal path.

SDI modification makes very good sense if you have a source device which provides added value, like a 400 disc changer.

Otherwise, choosing a top notch 480i HDMI player like the 79avi probably makes better sense. Especially when you consider the player also has excellent 720p/1080i performance when you might be in between external processors.

jcg

12-12-05, 02:38 PM

OK, and here I was thinking that IIRC was some kind of cable :) Guess I've just never seen that acroynm before.

For the cat5 solution to 1080p, is this a make your own cable? Where you buy the cat5 cable and some HDMI connectors, or are you saying someone makes a cable using cat5? Is it possible 1080p might even work with a decent 50' HDMI cable (Ram or BlueJeans) or is it pretty much guaranteed you need a special solution.

jcg

IIRC = "If I recall correctly"

1080p is about the full bandwidth of a single HDMI/DVI "link". Most cables are "dual link", but I've not seen anything that uses both links. DVI, which uses the same underlying means of transporting data, TDMS, originally spec'd at 5m max length for a single link. The fact the metal cables work at more than twice the length for half the bandwidth is problaby a factor of cable properties as well as TDMS receivers and transmitters, etc. For 1080P at long distances your current choices are fiber and cat5. There is also a HDMI cable that somebody sells (or will be selling) that has amplifiers built into the HDMI connectors. At one of the shows they were demoing 1080p at 15m. Unfortunately I forget the name of the company. Kris Deering is the one that mentioned it and he may remember the company name.

larry

Ktulu_1

12-12-05, 02:55 PM

Something like this for cat5 jcg... http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2225

PooperScooper

12-12-05, 03:11 PM

Is it possible 1080p might even work with a decent 50' HDMI cable (Ram or BlueJeans) or is it pretty much guaranteed you need a special solution. I doubt very much any unassisted metal cable would work at 50 feet and 1080p.

larry

HTSteve

12-12-05, 03:43 PM

I don't recall there being a clear "winner" in the 480i HDMI -vs- 480i SDI contest. In theory, good arguements can be made for either signal path.

Keep a couple of things in mind.

- An SDI connection, unless provided by the manufacturer as they are on some professional devices, is a hack. As a result there is no assurance the SDI signal is as clean as it could possibly be.

- 480i HDMI on the other hand is apart of the spec, and in the case of the 79avi, it has been specifically improved with regard to the amount of processing applied to the digital signal path.

SDI modification makes very good sense if you have a source device which provides added value, like a 400 disc changer.

Otherwise, choosing a top notch 480i HDMI player like the 79avi probably makes better sense. Especially when you consider the player also has excellent 720p/1080i performance when you might be in between external processors.

Bytehoven,

Can you reference where the 480i difference between the 59 and 79 processing is documented? I can't find this anywhere.

Also, has any one verified the absence or presence of the CUE bug?

For the 59 + $200, it seems like the 79 is a no brainer, if you are going to spend that much money.

Thanks.

Bytehoven

12-12-05, 05:12 PM

[QUOTE=HTSteve]Bytehoven,

Can you reference where the 480i difference between the 59 and 79 processing is documented? I can't find this anywhere./QUOTE]

Follow this link to a 79avi .pdf file, where it mentions the HDMI DIRECT mode, which has been said to offer little or no processing of the 480i HDMI signal path.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/277940808Elite%20Reference%20Guide%20DVD%20Players.pdf

tonydeluce

12-12-05, 05:25 PM

PooperScooper

12-12-05, 06:15 PM

Patrick TX

12-12-05, 08:19 PM

For the 59 + $200, it seems like the 79 is a no brainer, if you are going to spend that much money.

Thanks.

I agree. I wonder who will think it's worth moving from a 59? So far they sound pretty close.

mimason

12-12-05, 09:08 PM

The 59avi does something given the settings that Carl found were needed to produce "correct" video via 480i over HDMI. It was RGB too. So far, nobody has come up with what Direct Mode really is (I dont' remember, anyway) or how "correct" the 480i output is via HDMI and "default" settings.

larry

I used Carl's settings for the 79avi and agree that they work well. I think direct just turns off the NR comparing settings from the memory 1 defaults.

mimason

12-12-05, 09:10 PM

I agree. I wonder who will think it's worth moving from a 59? So far they sound pretty close.

Seems to me that audio is improved. I also like the build quality much more and my pj can benefit from the 79avi 10 bit processing. Well worth the $200 IMO.

Patrick TX

12-12-05, 10:28 PM

A no brainer at 200, but selling a 59 to move to a 79 will cost quite a bit more than $200.

PooperScooper

12-12-05, 10:28 PM

I used Carl's settings for the 79avi and agree that they work well. I think direct just turns off the NR comparing settings from the memory 1 defaults.You know me, I want to see the proof! :) It wouldn't surprise me a bit that the exact settings need to be used for the 79avi. But it sure would be nice if "neutral" settings would leave the data as is and not require special equipment to tell us that it is or is not correct (what's actually encoded on the DVD).

larry

Lee Lang

12-12-05, 10:42 PM

tonydeluce

12-12-05, 10:48 PM

Bill Mac:

I've had a 59 for a year now and I just traded it in for a 79. I replied to you over in the 59 thread about my settings on the 59 as I too am using the component connection. I can definately tell you that there IS improved video and audio quality in the 79. When I first got my 59 I was constantly adjusting the video settings on the player because it never seemed quite right. I finally settled on a rather unusual setup that worked for me. All I can tell you is that with the 79 I just set it to PROFESSIONAL and switched from AUTO 1 to AUTO 2 and I have never seen a better picture from dvd. Not once have I felt the urge to tweek the video settings on the player. It just looks fantastic. Audio is improved as well.

This post almost made me dash out the door and pay full retail at the first place
I find the 79AVi.

But, what's holding me back is that I have a DVDO iSCAN VP30 coming this
week and its really the 480i over HDMI is that is most important to me.

I would really like to hear from those who had the 59 AVi and now have the
79AVi and are using 480i over HDMI and can report on any observable
diffeence.

Anyone?

Thanks in advance :-)

jonnyozero3

12-12-05, 11:23 PM

This post almost made me dash out the door and pay full retail at the first place
I find the 79AVi.

But, what's holding me back is that I have a DVDO iSCAN VP30 coming this
week and its really the 480i over HDMI is that is most important to me.

I would really like to hear from those who had the 59 AVi and now have the
79AVi and are using 480i over HDMI and can report on any observable
diffeence.

Anyone?

Thanks in advance :-)

Levesque is the guy you want to talk to. He had the 59avi and the 79avi side by side via 480i HDMI to a scaler (I think its the VP30) - IIRC he did say he found the 79 to be a nice, albiet incrimental, improvement in video picture quality.

tonydeluce

12-12-05, 11:28 PM

Levesque is the guy you want to talk to. He had the 59avi and the 79avi side by side via 480i HDMI to a scaler (I think its the VP30) - IIRC he did say he found the 79 to be a nice, albiet incrimental, improvement in video picture quality.

Thanks Jonny! Levesque, care to elaborate?

jonnyozero3

12-12-05, 11:41 PM

Pioneer updated their info pages for the 79...

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_15020671_278147278,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetai lComponent

The DV-79AVi, the latest Elite Flagship DVD Player, offers the most advanced digital video and audio processing for the best possible DVD playback performance. Here's a few of the technologies that put the DV-79AVi in a class all its own.

....snip....
* With PureCinema Progressive Scan, the DV-57AVi achieves high conversion accuracy by actually re-creating the original frames of a film and displaying them in a 3-2 order (called 3-2 pull-down), matching the output to television standards. This creates natural, film-like, flicker-free images that are smooth and virtually free of bothersome artifacts on moving objects.

And I'm glad the DV-57AVi does great with film. :D

That typo is humorous, but the specifications page looks much better now ....

swest

12-12-05, 11:58 PM

swest: best way is to experiment. You might even find that the TV has a better scaler than the DVD player - I'd check out 480i direct over HDMI vs say, 720p also over HDMI.

Apparently, the Samsung HLP-5063 doesn't accept 480i over HDMI (?) At least it says 'not supported' when I set it up that way...

I went ahead and set up the set top box via the DVI connection, and ran an audio patch cable to its audio input. It'll be fine. I can't get too worked up about audio coming out of the TV's speakers. If I want good quality sound, I'll use the digital out to my receiver.

So my new 79AVI is hooked up, and I've been trying it out. My first SACD was Steely Dan's 'Gaucho', and, uh, while it sounds nice, I am unable to acquire multi-channel output from the player. I've confirmed that my B&K AVR315 is in the proper, dvd-audio, mode by swapping cables between the left and center channels - the sound follows the cable - so I know that the B&K would produce sound out the various channels if it was getting anything on them.

My research (and the label) on this SACD confirms that it possesses a SACD surround track.

I've been through the player's manual and OSD and I am unable to affect its behavior in this regard.

??

OHHH! The Setup Navigator! I couldn't get it to change off the top line (it wasn't immediately intuitive that you have to hit 'enter' to commit and move on...)

Anyway, never mind! Got it.

Gonna listen to 'gaucho' in surround now.

Later.

SMac770

12-13-05, 12:00 AM

If it would have allowed outputting 48Hz/72Hz instead of this converting back to 60Hz mess for film material, I wouldn't need all this external scalar mess. I guess I still have to see what 48Hz is all about, now that my M1-DVI cable is finally here before.

Still, no one compared a 59 or 79 SDI vs HDMI on a VP30? Sounds like SDI is still the only true right off the disk transfer; the HDMI outs still having all kinds of hocus pocus, even if most of it can be disabled. Does it make a difference? Well, that is the question.

Although, once you consider a VP30 and a 79AVi vs. a SDI modded 59AVi and a HD+ w/ SDI card, the pricing starts to equalize some, and what little difference there is, it gets you the most up to date products, assuming the VP30 and 79AVi are not steps backwards in any categories. Still no decoding and deinterlacing tests from Secrets for the 79AVi?

And I wouldn't be shocked at the 79 improving on the 59 on component out. Secrets seemd to document the 59 component output has several significant problems which did not exist on the HDMI out. One would expect Pioneer to fix those.

SMac770

12-13-05, 12:07 AM

Can the Legato Link be disabled or bypassed when using the digital coax out for CD playback?

mimason

12-13-05, 06:51 AM

Can the Legato Link be disabled or bypassed when using the digital coax out for CD playback?

Yes.

BTW I did some HQV testing back a few pages with comments. I will try to go through the entire disk with scores time permitting. Tis the season.

Bill Mac

12-13-05, 08:55 AM

Bill Mac:

I've had a 59 for a year now and I just traded it in for a 79. I replied to you over in the 59 thread about my settings on the 59 as I too am using the component connection. I can definately tell you that there IS improved video and audio quality in the 79. When I first got my 59 I was constantly adjusting the video settings on the player because it never seemed quite right. I finally settled on a rather unusual setup that worked for me. All I can tell you is that with the 79 I just set it to PROFESSIONAL and switched from AUTO 1 to AUTO 2 and I have never seen a better picture from dvd. Not once have I felt the urge to tweek the video settings on the player. It just looks fantastic. Audio is improved as well.

Lee,

Thanks for your update. I think I will take my 59avi back but I can not find a 79avi available in my area (Boston). Both Magnolia and Tweeter do not show it in their systems.

Bill

LEVESQUE

12-13-05, 09:55 AM

Ktulu_1

12-13-05, 09:58 AM

Am I correct in assuming the the 59avi picture is better over SDI mod than the 79avi over HDMI?

jonnyozero3

12-13-05, 11:04 AM

I was able to compare a 59AVi-SDI and 480i over HDMI to the IScan HD+. There was less ringing and a cleaner picture with the SDI mod then with HDMI.

The 79AVi at 480i over HDMI has less ringing and is cleaner then the 59AVi in the same conditions.

Was it like this?

Best - 59AVi SDI
Better - 79AVi 480i HDMI
Good - 59AVi 480i HDMI

Or was the 79 the equal or better of the SDI-modded 59? Sorry to pester, but you weren't quite clear on this little detail :)

PooperScooper

12-13-05, 01:31 PM

I was able to compare a 59AVi-SDI and 480i over HDMI to the IScan HD+. There was less ringing and a cleaner picture with the SDI mod then with HDMI. That's really strange. Both are digital signals that are processed digitally. The HDMI output from the 59avi should not have been processed enough to cause ringing. Ringing is usually the result of (poor) video processing adding EE or effects from (poor) analog connections or conversions. Wierd.

larry

bobloblaw

12-13-05, 05:13 PM

OK, and here I was thinking that IIRC was some kind of cable :) Guess I've just never seen that acroynm before.

Is it possible 1080p might even work with a decent 50' HDMI cable (Ram or BlueJeans) or is it pretty much guaranteed you need a special solution.

jcg

I contacted Bluejeans on this very issue as I need an HDMI cable length of 40ft. Bluejeans said that they guarantee 1080p for lengths up to 10M, but beyond that it's going to be limited to the amount of cable attenuation and the output signal level of the DVD player, scaler, etc.

I got the same information from DVIGear.

jsonmc

12-13-05, 10:25 PM

Lee,

Thanks for your update. I think I will take my 59avi back but I can not find a 79avi available in my area (Boston). Both Magnolia and Tweeter do not show it in their systems.

Bill

They have them in stock at some Best Buy locations.

Bill Mac

12-14-05, 04:16 AM

They have them in stock at some Best Buy locations.

In the Boston area? Is it at a Magnolia or a regular Best Buy?

Thanks, Bill

PooperScooper

12-14-05, 08:02 AM

I contacted Bluejeans on this very issue as I need an HDMI cable length of 40ft. Bluejeans said that they guarantee 1080p for lengths up to 10M, but beyond that it's going to be limited to the amount of cable attenuation and the output signal level of the DVD player, scaler, etc.

I got the same information from DVIGear. Interesting. It's too bad manufacturers don't utilize both "links". If they did, for 1080p, you'd basically be sending 1080i bandwidth over each link (just like now). I'm guessing its more of an issue that the HDMI chipsets don't support both links, not that DVD player manufacturers don't want to use them.

larry

thedeskE

12-14-05, 11:25 AM

Update - Finally had time to test with my component cables. Excellent results, perhaps better than HDMI for my display (52 DILA)
At first, I had such good results with HDMI, I assumed it was time to ditch component. Given enough time and disks, I ran into a few scenes that exibited a quick amount of crush - the ol' dark room etc. A few that were known did not have the problem, but now I'm back to the limit of my TV with this problem. I think I was fooled by the extra sharpness/color on a few disks, but there were 2 that look almost dull compared to recent passes with my previous player. Again, I think it's my display.

I still need to test a few more disks, but I have no problem using the big wire for now. No HDMI for me, but it looks fantastic with no adjustment. I had to disconnect HDMI to show the extra (mem 1-3 etc) menus in video adjust.

Basic audio via coax continues to impress. Not quite on the level of the Onkyo 1000, but close enough to keep me happy.

E

gansenmind

12-14-05, 11:29 AM

Chouca

12-14-05, 12:52 PM

Kris Deering

12-14-05, 01:07 PM

Just picked mine up this last weekend. Love it, incredible. I am running an Optoma H77 and was feeding it directly from a Denon 2910 at 720p. I recently had the Optoma calibrated and when I pluged in the Denon the colors looked off. Skin tones had a yellow/green tint, etc. Bought this unit and am blown away by what I was missing. The colors look amazing. I don't think the Denon liked the Optoma.
One quick question with regard to the transport. Can people hear the disk spinning if they stand say two feet away. My room is very quiet and at my sitting position, 10 feet away, I can just barely hear it. The unit is in an open rack. Thanks.

This is something that I hear to often that has me troubled. You realize that when you calibrate (or have a display calibrated) you should use the source for calibration. In other words, the display should have been fed by the Denon for calibration since every player has different output levels. A lot of calibrators use test generators, which is fine in some respects but it does not take into account what the player is putting out. If anything they should have used the test generator and then polished it up afterward with the Denon feeding the PJ. You should calibrate each input used on a PJ or display to the device feeding it.

In my case I have a HS-51. The I use the different user memories to store completely seperate calibrations for my Denon 5910, JVC 5U D-Theater deck and my Comcast satellite box. Each one of these were calibrated seperately using test material derived from those sources (expect the cable box, I used the HD version of DVE for this since I can't get test patterns on it). That is the only way to ensure the PJ is calibrated correctly FOR THE DEVICES you feed it.

thedeskE

12-14-05, 02:10 PM

mimason

12-14-05, 02:12 PM

Bytehoven

12-14-05, 02:58 PM

I hooked up my 79avi over the weekend and it looks fantastic. A definite improvement over my Panasonic RP91. I haven't done any calibration yet; this is running in Direct mode over HDMI -> DVI into my NEC HT1000.

Can anyone recommend settings for the 79avi and HT1000 combo?

The HT1000 has very good onboard deinterlacing and scaling. As a result, you should compare the HDMI 480i, 720p and 1080i to see which signal produces the best results.

Remembering how well the HT1000 performed, it might be a toss up between 720p and 1080i, but I didn't have the HQV test DVD at the time.

It's possible since the HT1000 is scaling any of the 79avi resolutions to 1024x768, 720p might end up being the best output resolution.

The other thing to keep in mind, what menu options disappear. If I recall correctly, many manu options disappear with the DVI input regardless of the resolution.

I look forward to hearing more about your 79avi/HT1000 observations.

Kris Deering

12-14-05, 04:57 PM

Agree with Kris - basic stuff here, but my ISF guys always adjust the TV as perfect as possible and then work with the player/sat source/etc. and dial in. None of them like using any adjustments on the player. I trust them.

E

I agree you shouldn't use the player's adjustments. I am saying that you should use the player as the source to deliver the test patterns since its the player's voltage levels and video levels that will determine what your PJ or display will show, not the calibrator's test generator. You don't watch that.

PooperScooper

12-14-05, 05:13 PM

KenLand

12-14-05, 05:20 PM

I think it matters how many sources are sharing that input. Nowadays my displays tend to use one DVI or HDMI input for all sources. So I have to calibrate whatever I can.

If all the sources are tweakable then calibrate the display with known standard like an Accupel. If not then calibrate the display to the least tweakable source and then calibrate the other sources to that.

You might want to optimize DVD by setting it to defaults and calibrate the display to just the DVD player. Then you would have to let the other sources play as they may.

You just kinda gotta do what seems best for that person and their set of sources.

Ken

PooperScooper

12-14-05, 05:39 PM

Ken, you're right, especially if the display does not have a way to save multiple calibration settings. But, to me, it just seems so wrong, especially with digital output, to modify the data from the DVD (providing the DVD player isn't doing it behind your back).

larry

Kris Deering

12-14-05, 07:03 PM

If all the sources are tweakable then calibrate the display with known standard like an Accupel.

The problem with that is NONE of your sources are the Accupel. Sure you know the baseline of the PJ is now correct, but who cares if none of your sources are. This would really only be good if you were reviewing or testing the display.

If you want to calibrate gray scale for example, then calibrate the gray scale for each individual source, as their levels will differ. Thankfully my PJ has 6 individual picture memories that I can fully adjust and apply as needed, and 6 individual gray scale memories that I can apply as well.

If you only have one setting that you can work with, I say calibrate to the source that is used the most.

LEVESQUE

12-14-05, 07:31 PM

Thankfully my PJ has 6 individual picture memories that I can fully adjust and apply as needed, and 6 individual gray scale memories that I can apply as well.

Are you talking about your HS51? My Sony Ruby just came in, and after reading some posts from Greg Rogers, I just realized that I have to calibrate the projector for each iris mode also!

Calibrating all those sources AND all the iris modes is really getting crazy... :D I'm not sure 6 memories will be enough!

Penton-Man

12-14-05, 07:31 PM

Update - Finally had time to test with my component cables. Excellent results, perhaps better than HDMI for my display (52 DILA)

Please post some settings with component either before and/or after Josh does your calibration.

Bytehoven

12-14-05, 07:46 PM

Are you talking about your HS51? My Sony Ruby just came in, and after reading some posts from Greg Rogers, I just realized that I have to calibrate the projector for each iris mode also!

Calibrating all those sources AND all the iris modes is really getting crazy... :D I'm not sure 6 memories will be enough!

Hey, if it was easy, we would have dealer cost review equipment sitting in front of us.

;-)

Your efforts are appreciated.

jsonmc

12-14-05, 07:59 PM

In the Boston area? Is it at a Magnolia or a regular Best Buy?

Thanks, Bill

Hi Bill,
I was at a regular Best Buy in Seekonk Tuesday night and they do have them in stock at that store. You may want to call that location or any other in MA to see what locations they have them.
Good luck!
Jason

Bill Mac

12-14-05, 08:04 PM

Hi Bill,
I was at a regular Best Buy in Seekonk Tuesday night and they do have them in stock at that store. You may want to call that location or any other in MA to see what locations they have them.
Good luck!
Jason

Jason,

I'm in the Portsmouth NH area (work in Boston), I will try the Portsmouth Best Buy.

Thanks, Bill

LEVESQUE

12-14-05, 08:10 PM

Hey, if it was easy, we would have dealer cost review equipment sitting in front of us.

:D

thedeskE

12-14-05, 11:28 PM

I agree you shouldn't use the player's adjustments. I am saying that you should use the player as the source to deliver the test patterns since its the player's voltage levels and video levels that will determine what your PJ or display will show, not the calibrator's test generator. You don't watch that.

We're on the same page. I normally reguard DVD as the most important, and let my sat feed fall where it may (in spite of the fact that I watch more sat than DVD on a normal week)
The previous cal with a Pany 97 holds well with the Pio 79, but we will go for more soon. This was not as easy with my previous CRT. The well calibrated fixed pixel TV (even with all it's faults) makes for an easy starting point between the 2 players I've used so far.

Penton-Man I'll keep you posted. Could be a week or so. For the moment there are no settings, but keep in mind the TV has been through a lot of work in the service menu, so for what it's worth - Professional/Direct/auto1 (if that means anything for component) and 0 or off with everything else.

E

KenLand

12-15-05, 12:05 AM

...
If you only have one setting that you can work with, I say calibrate to the source that is used the most.

That's actually what I do. I don't have an accupel. But if I did I might use it, because all of your sources *should* output signals like the Accupel.

So if your sources can be adjusted to output standard signals ala the Accupel then that's not a bad thing.

Ken

kanefsky

12-15-05, 01:01 AM

Interesting. It's too bad manufacturers don't utilize both "links". If they did, for 1080p, you'd basically be sending 1080i bandwidth over each link (just like now). I'm guessing its more of an issue that the HDMI chipsets don't support both links, not that DVD player manufacturers don't want to use them.

larry

The only dual-link I know of is the the Apple Cinema HD display which is 1600p. But that's a DVI, non-HDCP computer display.

--
Steve

Geof

12-15-05, 10:56 AM

Kris, I understand what you’re saying about calibrating an input using the source to feed it but…if the source is tweekable I think it’s just fine to calibrate the input with a Accupel and then adjust the source to fine tune the calibration (assuming the source can be fine tuned in such a manner). Adjusting the source to properly feed a calibrated input effectively calibrates the source. I don’t see any problem with adjusting source settings so it outputs the proper signals. In an ideal world the factory should have it thusly adjusted anyways.

gandley

12-15-05, 12:00 PM

Here you go:

Can I use use the HDMI connection and convert this to DVI to the HD Leeza? Yes

Will the HDMI output 480i? You will need to choose the resolution. It will output DVI 480i

Is the HDMI using HDCP? Yes

What's the best way to set this up? In initial setting for HDMI use FULL RANGE RGB. In memory one setup set it to direct then set contract to minimum. Black level sb one tick down from middle. IRE 7.5. Done.

Thanks in advance. Welcome

Let us know how this works out.

Out of interest on my projector (H79 which is DVI so fores RGB), I have to set to 7.5IRE to pass below black, however this is with it set to RGB. If i then set to FULL RANGE RGB, then i no longer pass black even set at 7.5IRE. Have you checked to make sure you still pass black with the PLUGE test pattern for FR RGB.

This maybe display dependant, but for me full range RGB pushes the colours and clips black.
RGB is more accurate.

lewis1

12-15-05, 12:33 PM

i have a sharp dt-300 and i have mine set to full rgb i thought i had a correct picture because it looked really good i took some advice here from other members on there settings they all had there black level set at 7.5 i had mine set to 0 the blacks looked real black to me but i was curios so i ordered dve to calibrate sure enough you have to set to 7.5 to get below black so i set it there and finished calibrating i also had my britness set to high now it really shines just goes to show you can;t allways trust your eyes best $20.00 dallars i spent . hope this helps

mimason

12-15-05, 01:24 PM

Out of interest on my projector (H79 which is DVI so fores RGB), I have to set to 7.5IRE to pass below black, however this is with it set to RGB. If i then set to FULL RANGE RGB, then i no longer pass black even set at 7.5IRE. Have you checked to make sure you still pass black with the PLUGE test pattern for FR RGB.

This maybe display dependant, but for me full range RGB pushes the colours and clips black.
RGB is more accurate.

I tested mine with AVIA and DVE. Whatever works for you go with it but I wonder if your brightness setting on the pj is causing this 'irregularity'.

CHG

12-15-05, 02:50 PM

They have them in stock at some Best Buy locations.

They have them in stock at the Best Buys in No VA. Picked one up using one of their 12% off coupons. Looks like most BB should now or soon will have them in.

PooperScooper

12-15-05, 03:01 PM

I tested mine with AVIA and DVE. Whatever works for you go with it but I wonder if your brightness setting on the pj is causing this 'irregularity'.
This is where you really need something that can read the actual digital data coming from the player. The lumangen scaler seems to be able to do it "sorta". If for some reason the player "raises" luma values, you will still see the BTB bars even though the data is no longer BTB. My take/guess on "Full range RGB" would be take 16-234 and expand to 0-254 - what gandley sees. A lot also depends on where the data is clipped and or modifed. Is the "expansion" done after all other processing (brightness, contrast, etc modify stream and then expansion happens)? Or is it clip and expand and then brightness, contrast controls etc do things before output? But isn't mimason using 480i and gandley using 480p or 720p? There's a lot more happening in the player in gandley's case.

larry

gandley

12-15-05, 08:53 PM

I tested mine with AVIA and DVE. Whatever works for you go with it but I wonder if your brightness setting on the pj is causing this 'irregularity'.

Well im using AVIA and DVE and i flatlined the pjs brightness and contrast so not to add any bias, but with 7.5 IRE and RGB all 3 bars on the pluge pattern can be viewed to do the adjustment. As soon as i set it to full range RGB the Outer bar is gone. this is with both AVIA and DVE.

Perhaps i change the pioneers white and black level without noticing/thinking what i was doing. i think there set to minimum, ie far left of the scale. I will check again.

The manual says you should onlu use Full range RGB if colours look washed out with RGB, which for me they dont

heavyharmonies

12-15-05, 09:03 PM

Received my 79avi yesterday from Soundpros. After talking with them at length over the phone, let's just say I'm not concerned with their internet sales and discounting not being "authorized."

Anyway, this is one beefy beast. In fact, it walked in from the curb and took over my couch! ;)

My Iscan HD+ is still en route back from service at DVDO, so I hooked it up via HDMI-DVI dongle to my Mits WS65613 (CRT) using 1080i, with it set to "Direct".

Oh my.

This is such a huge improvement over my Zenith DVB318, it's not even funny.

I purchased a bunch of music DVDs during DDD's last 20% off sale, and deliberately waited for the new player to watch. I'm watching Blackmore's Night - Castles & Dreams, and it looks and sounds incredible! Just a hair short of HD quality IMO.

Star Wars Episode III looked stunning! The vibrant colors and smoothness was amazing. No [CENSORED] macroblocking!!

If 480i over HDMI to the HD+ is better than 1080i direct, I'll be in hawg heaven!

I haven't had a chance to do any multichannel audio listening yet, although I have a nice library of SACD, DVD-A, and DTS audio CDs. I am only using the 5.1 analog connections to my receiver (Denon AVR-3803), and the Pioneer seems to do a better job of DTS and DD decoding than the Denon did.

The only disappointing aspect is that it doesn't do any PAL/NTSC conversion. I have a number of PAL music DVDs I was hoping I could play (newest Within Temptation Silent Force Tour DVD in particular), but no dice. Looks like I'll have to keep my DVB318 in the setup for PAL and other-region DVDs.

You'd think at this price point Pioneer could include PAL-to-NTSC conversion. :(

Robert George

12-15-05, 10:25 PM

The only disappointing aspect is that it doesn't do any PAL/NTSC conversion.

I assume the 79AVi will output PAL native? I have quite a few PAL discs that are R0 an my Sony projector plays PAL.

jcg

12-15-05, 11:11 PM

Final update hopefully to the cable/79AVi issue. My 50' HDMI cable from Ram came in today and now everything works great. Cable is actually not even as thick as the one from monoprice, but obviously something is different. Monoprice is refunding me for the cable, so I'm happy at least everything is working. Now onto the calibration and some movie watching :)

jcg

OK, another update on my HDMI/cable issue. It's not a touchy connector as originally thought but a touchy cable in general. I brought the 79AVi and 50 ft cable (from monoprice) back to the dealer to run some tests, and it turns out I couldnt get the 50 ft cable to work with his HDMI display and the 79AVi at all. But a shorter cable worked fine. So looks like I need to order a more expensive 50 ft cable as I went purely on price with my first order. And again this cable did work fine with a Sony NS70, so I guess the 79AVi might have slightly lower drive levels or something on their HDMI port. Anyways I was wondering if anyone here that has a 79AVi and is using a 50ft HDMI cable? If so which specific cable are you using? I looked at Ram and BlueJean and can get a 50ft HDMI cable for about 3X what I originally paid, but want to make sure that these will definately work with the 79AVi.

jcg

kanefsky

12-16-05, 12:08 AM

Can anyone comment on how responsive the 79avi is? I currently have an Oppo and I love how fast it responds to play/pause/ff/rw/etc. It's annoying when a player responds sluggishly to commands.

Thanks,

--
Steve

thedeskE

12-16-05, 01:05 AM

kanefsky

It's not the fastest I've used but most commands feel deliberate and consistant. I quickly forget such things once I get used to it.
Spin up to menu seems as fast as any.

E

GotWAF!

12-16-05, 07:04 AM

I concur on the navigation speed. Also, some have mentioned the layer change is not sealmess or not as fast as x player. I have yet to see a layer change on the eight movies I've watched so far.

mimason

12-16-05, 09:07 AM

I concur on the navigation speed. Also, some have mentioned the layer change is not sealmess or not as fast as x player. I have yet to see a layer change on the eight movies I've watched so far.

I used two movies that I know where the layer change is: LOTR FOTR and Dodgeball. Both were slower than my SP1000 which was determined to be 1 second on Secrets. Also on newer releases it seems the layer change is placed at a scene break so it is much less noticeable.

I watched Full Metal Jacket yesterday and can't remember seeing the change. Perhaps I was just fully engrossed in the movie which is up there with LOA in my book with quotes like: "Only steers and queers live in Texas" and "me love you long time" ;)

PooperScooper

12-16-05, 09:11 AM

Well im using AVIA and DVE and i flatlined the pjs brightness and contrast so not to add any bias, but with 7.5 IRE and RGB all 3 bars on the pluge pattern can be viewed to do the adjustment. As soon as i set it to full range RGB the Outer bar is gone. this is with both AVIA and DVE.

Perhaps i change the pioneers white and black level without noticing/thinking what i was doing. i think there set to minimum, ie far left of the scale. I will check again.

The manual says you should onlu use Full range RGB if colours look washed out with RGB, which for me they dontThat makes sense. With brightness at min there should be no chance of articificially raising BTB data. Also, you probably know this, but just to make sure, there's no BTB data on Avia.

larry

LEVESQUE

12-16-05, 10:53 AM

Bytehoven

12-16-05, 11:09 AM

I was able to try my 79AVi with my new Sony Ruby VPL-VW100 yesterday at 480i over HDMI.

WOW! Those 2 are made to be working together. No tweaking, just "plug and play" (will have to tweak it later tough). Impressive.

The scaler in the Ruby is really good. Working good with the 79AVi.

Are you getting any closer to being able to raterank the various setups for PQ?

Such as:

79avi HDMI 480i direct
79avi HDMI 720p or 1080i direct
79avi HDMI 480i -> DVDO -> 1080p
79avi HDMI 720p -> DVDO -> 1080p

Or any other configurations you also feel are worth mentioning.

Do you have an OPPO on hand? I'd love to know how the OPPO at 720p or 1080i looks on the Ruby.

LEVESQUE

12-16-05, 12:18 PM

Are you getting any closer to being able to raterank the various setups for PQ?
Such as:
79avi HDMI 480i direct
79avi HDMI 720p or 1080i direct
79avi HDMI 480i -> DVDO -> 1080p
79avi HDMI 720p -> DVDO -> 1080p
Or any other configurations you also feel are worth mentioning.
Do you have an OPPO on hand? I'd love to know how the OPPO at 720p or 1080i looks on the Ruby.

I'm at work now, but I will be able to do it this week-end.

BTW, I've sold my IScan HD+ today. I will have access to both a Gennum and a Realta scaler pretty soon... So no need for the IScan or VP30 anymore...

And yes I have the Oppo. :D

jonnyozero3

12-16-05, 12:44 PM

I'm at work now, but I will be able to do it this week-end.

BTW, I've sold my IScan HD+ today. I will have access to both a Gennum and a Realta scaler pretty soon... So no need for the IScan or VP30 anymore...

And yes I have the Oppo. :D

Yes, definately throw the Oppo in there in your ratings. If you still have the 59AVi I'd love to see how it fits in there as well. Thanks for posting your thoughts so far.

kanefsky

12-16-05, 12:55 PM

I used two movies that I know where the layer change is: LOTR FOTR and Dodgeball. Both were slower than my SP1000 which was determined to be 1 second on Secrets. Also on newer releases it seems the layer change is placed at a scene break so it is much less noticeable.
Slower than 1 second? That sounds like an eternity. Maybe I'll just stick with my Oppo...

--
Steve

Rob Tomlin

12-16-05, 10:49 PM

Chouca

12-17-05, 03:36 AM

I adjusted my 79avi to the settings mentioned earlier: Direct copied to Memory1, Full Range RGB, 7.5 IRE, Black Level -1. It looks even better now -- with the unadjusted Direct settings it was indeed crushing blacks. Also, before adjustment the colors looked overly saturated and now they look perfect.

About the only nit I could pick with the picture is a slightly flourescent quality to the greens. I suspect this is the fault of my projector rather than the DVD player because it was there with my other source as well (the Panasonic RP91). I'll try to fix it with projector calibration but so far I haven't been able to.

The picture is superior to the RP91 in every way and truly a joy to behold. I watched Casino last night and it looked stunning!

Ergonomically I have very few complaints. I like the remote (although the illumination is inadequate -- is it glow-in-the dark?), but I can't use the jog wheel at all. It just slips under my fingers. The on-screen UI is excellent. I especially like the list of audio tracks that you can pick from rather than cycling through them one by one.

I haven't listened to hi-res audio yet because I don't own any hi-res discs, but I'll report on that once I do.

LEVESQUE

12-17-05, 09:52 AM

You just are having WAY too much fun with all those new toys! Well, it is almost Christmas, so I guess it is ok!
;)

I was a god boy this year, so Santa was nice with me... :D

Seriously. I've played with the trio 79AVi + IScan + Ruby alot yesterday, and to my eyes the 79AVi at 1080i over HDMI direct to the Ruby is the best.

I think the 10bit processing over HDMI is better then 8bit over DVI with the IScan. Less contouring, more saturated colors. I'm using "Full Range RGB", 7.5 IRE, -1 Black level and Contrast at minimum. The IScan is doing a simple "BOB and weave" processing at 1080p, and the de-interlacer in the Ruby is better to my eyes.

But I made the "mistake" of looking at a 1080i source (Toy Story I) to the Ruby and I was really annoyed with going back to 480i DVDs... At 1080p, with a 1080i source, there is no contest. The 79AVi is good, but nothing can touch that.

If I could get my pre-production Pio Elite Blu-Ray player sooner, i would be really happy!

mimason

12-17-05, 12:13 PM

I was a god boy this year, so Santa was nice with me... :D

Seriously. I've played with the trio 79AVi + IScan + Ruby alot yesterday, and to my eyes the 79AVi at 1080i over HDMI direct to the Ruby is the best.

I think the 10bit processing over HDMI is better then 8bit over DVI with the IScan. Less contouring, more saturated colors. I'm using "Full Range RGB", 7.5 IRE, -1 Black level and Contrast at minimum. The IScan is doing a simple "BOB and weave" processing at 1080p, and the de-interlacer in the Ruby is better to my eyes.

But I made the "mistake" of looking at a 1080i source (Toy Story I) to the Ruby and I was really annoyed with going back to 480i DVDs... At 1080p, with a 1080i source, there is no contest. The 79AVi is good, but nothing can touch that.

If I could get my pre-production Pio Elite Blu-Ray player sooner, i would be really happy!

Cool.

What does 'component 12 bit' do for you? Isn't that the only way you can get 10 bit processing? I may be wrong.

Bytehoven

12-17-05, 12:29 PM

I've played with the trio 79AVi + IScan + Ruby alot yesterday, and to my eyes the 79AVi at 1080i over HDMI direct to the Ruby is the best.

When you have a minute away from your captivativing HT, maybe you could continue your observations.

79avi HDMI 720p direct -> Ruby
OPPO HDMI 720p/1080i -> Ruby

You're 79avi 1080 HDMI observation makes me wonder if the OPPO at 1080i might outperform on some deinterlaing intensive sources.

Is the Ruby the best thing since sliced bread? ;-)

LEVESQUE

12-17-05, 02:43 PM

79avi HDMI 720p direct -> Ruby
OPPO HDMI 720p/1080i -> Ruby
You're 79avi 1080 HDMI observation makes me wonder if the OPPO at 1080i might outperform on some deinterlaing intensive sources.

I'm to busy watching movies! I will try bringing the Oppo back in the room tomorrow just for you. :D

Is the Ruby the best thing since sliced bread? ;-)

No. That award goes to the Onkyo SP1000. I really taught you knew better then that Byte! ;)

Seriously. It's really a ground-breaking projector IMHO. But until I calibrate the grayscale and the projector totally, my enthusiasm would be only anecdotical.

jcg

12-17-05, 03:47 PM

I starting to calibrate the 79AVi and would like a little help. It seems that there is some conflicting info about whether IRE should be set to 0 or 7.5. I have a Panny AE900 projector and am running HDMI. I currently have it set for 12 bit component and 1080i output. If I go into memory 1 and copy the settings from direct, I get IRE set at 0? Do I need to change this? PureCinema is set to Auto 2 and all the other stuff looks to be in the default middle location. Do I need to change any of these defaults?

jcg

mimason

12-17-05, 04:30 PM

jcg,

I think you are on the right track but you'll need to verify settings in AVIA ot DVE to be sure.

I watched Island which was very entertaining btw last night using component 12, 0 IRE. You may need to tweak contrast though a little.

jcg

12-17-05, 04:45 PM

I would adjust the contrast on the projector right, or on the DVD player? This is my first projector and my first time using DVE so some of my questions are pretty basic. Will it be clear on DVE if I have the IRE set wrong? I do notice just on the black background of the DVD menu, that if I set it to 7.5 the black gets much lighter. So based on this the 0 setting seemed correct, but I haven't gotten into DVE yet. Thanks for the help.

jcg

jcg,

I think you are on the right track but you'll need to verify settings in AVIA ot DVE to be sure.

I watched Island which was very entertaining btw last night using component 12, 0 IRE. You may need to tweak contrast though a little.

mimason

12-17-05, 05:27 PM

Without going OT DVE explains BTB very well. I can't tell if you have DVE or not but if not some dvd's have a THX setup that you can use.

PooperScooper

12-17-05, 07:23 PM

Don't forget there's now a whole forum dedicated to display calibration. Tons of good stuff there. Also, Chris Wiggles "sticky" up top here has great info also.

larry

thedeskE

12-17-05, 07:26 PM

I concur on the navigation speed. Also, some have mentioned the layer change is not sealmess or not as fast as x player. I have yet to see a layer change on the eight movies I've watched so far.

I've noticed layer change on a few, but it seems quick. The 2900 and SP1000 were the only 2 I've used that didn't have LC on my disks.

Again, none of this bugs me with this player. As I have time to revisit movies, I'm very pleased with what I see & Hear.

Any one pairing this with an SXRD 50 or 60? Very curious about that combo.

Really nice thread guys!

E

jcg

12-17-05, 07:58 PM

I never even noticed this new forum, but now that I'm about to start doing my first calibration I guess I'll spend some time there first. Thanks for the heads-up, and I guess I'll post any future questions over there.

jcg

Don't forget there's now a whole forum dedicated to display calibration. Tons of good stuff there. Also, Chris Wiggles "sticky" up top here has great info also.

larry

cyclocommuter

12-17-05, 08:21 PM

I never even noticed this new forum, but now that I'm about to start doing my first calibration I guess I'll spend some time there first. Thanks for the heads-up, and I guess I'll post any future questions over there.

jcg

jcg, FWIW, I just followed the suggestion in the DVE disc to first set the display to "standard" mode (not movie, etc.) and calibrated from there. I also used the suggestions I found in the 59AVi thread as a guideline.

Here is the setup I ended up on the 79Avi:

1. Started off cloning Direct to Memory.
2. Set IRE to 7.5 as IRE 0 does not pass BtB based on the DVE pluge test.
3. Set White Level to minimum.
4. Set Black Level to -2.
5. Set HDMI Detail to maximum.
6. Set Detail halfway.

To me this is the setting that I am happy with. I can now see details very well on dark movies/scenes compared to when I was using a Samsung HD-841 player. Bear in mind that my display is a Samsung DLP (HLP5685W) and I connected the 79AVi to the Sammy's HDMI input using the 12 bit HDMI option. I barely modified the settings on the display... just played with the colors a little bit after running the color/tint test and eyeballing the filters that came with DVE disc.

jonnyozero3

12-17-05, 08:26 PM

Does the "HDMI detail to max" setting create any ringing or edge enhancement?

cyclocommuter

12-17-05, 08:31 PM

Does the "HDMI detail to max" setting create any ringing or edge enhancement?

In my case I found that there was EE / ringing when the "sharpening" is done on the display via Samung's DNIE. I decided to turn it (DNIE) off and do the sharpening on the 79AVi. It appears maxing out HDMI details did not produce EE/ringing so long as sharpening was off on the display.

mimason

12-17-05, 09:09 PM

Does the "HDMI detail to max" setting create any ringing or edge enhancement?

It does introduce ringing and I have sharpness at min on my display.

jonnyozero3

12-17-05, 09:11 PM

Thanks guys - I guess I'll have to wait and see when I get mine (where the heck is it, btw?)

PooperScooper

12-18-05, 08:09 AM

jcg

12-18-05, 12:18 PM

I believe btw = by the way.

jcg

Thanks guys - I guess I'll have to wait and see when I get mine (where the heck is it, btw?)

jonnyozero3

12-18-05, 12:31 PM

I believe btw = by the way.

jcg

Umm...yeah. I know that... :) I was saying that I'm wondering where the heck my 79AVi is; I preordered it in late October from a local dealer and still haven't received it.

gandley

12-18-05, 02:50 PM

I would not put HDMI detail to max, if you gradually increase it you can see the picture coming away from being soft and fuzzy to very detailed. But once you get past 1 notch on the halfway point on the slider you will see that no new detail is being added and the current detail just gets pushed as it were. go to the test pattern and you see this is the point where ringing and EE start to become noticable.
Also at this point the image does start block in the backgrounds, a bit like faroudja macroblocking. This is on an 8FT screen so it is perhaps easier to see the bad effects that maxing out HDMI detail can cause.

jonnyozero3

12-18-05, 03:04 PM

That sounds similar to what I saw with the 59AVi I checked out (106" diag screen). Thanks for the info.

jedi29

12-18-05, 05:33 PM

I want my DV-79AVi too , called Pioneer and they said " they are on backorder" so I asked when they expect a shippment ? "don`t have that information" so I asked can you direct me to someone who could provide me with a delivery date " sure hang on ~~hi can`t give you that information you should contact your dealer" , I said i already have one on order but there are none in the warehouse , "like I said they are backordered" Ok thanks . :confused:
I want my DV-79AVi !!!
At least I still have the o`l DV-09 :) color push and all the other bugs !
Gary

Suzook

12-18-05, 07:05 PM

So if I have an HDMI hooked up to my plasma running through a PIO vsx 74 do I even need to bother with I-link

mimason

12-18-05, 07:39 PM

So if I have an HDMI hooked up to my plasma running through a PIO vsx 74 do I even need to bother with I-link

AFAIK SACD is not passed via HDMI.

jonnyozero3

12-18-05, 10:03 PM

jonnyozero3

12-18-05, 10:03 PM

AFAIK SACD is not passed via HDMI.

I think HDMI 1.2 will do it...maybe...but obviously it's not on this unit

wingnut4772

12-19-05, 12:08 AM

Can anyone compare this player to the Denon 2910? That is my current player and I am having macroblocking issues with my Samsung DLP. Thanks

Suzook

12-19-05, 09:26 AM

wow is all I can say. I watched Charlie and the Chocolate Factory last night (new version) and man after adjusting the setting as posted here man did the image just pop off the screen. I am connected through my Pio Elite vsx 74 receiver to a Panny 65 8U plasma via HDMI. Only downside is that older disk really expose the crappy transfer. My favorite holiday dvd the Griswolds was alsmost unwatchable !!!!!!!! oh well thats progress for you

PooperScooper

12-19-05, 10:23 AM

This is an extremely popular thread. Anything that is not related to the 79avi or a one-off relationship (like SACD over HDMI) I'm going to delete when I see it. Don't be offended. It's just that most of you know how hard it is to ferret out info here and the extra OT posts don't help. And if for some reason a post of yours is deleted, it can be restored if you really think it's necessary, just PM me. Thanks.

larry

LEVESQUE

12-19-05, 11:18 AM

Ok. After 2 days playing with the Sony Ruby, Pioneer 79Avi, IScan HD+, and the Oppo, here's the low down.

Best picture: 79AVi at 480i over HDMI direct to the Ruby. Better then using the IScan HD+. The Ruby motion-adaptative deinterlacing is just better then what the IScan is doing.

Sending 720p and 1080i to the Ruby is second, and a little bit better then using the Oppo, probably because of the 10bit processing over HDMI against 8bit over DVI. The Ruby is using that extra processing nicely. Less contouring, sharper picture, better and crisper colors. Same results when using the 8bit path of the IScan HD+ (new VP30 is 10bit...).

But the motion adaptative de-interlacing of of the Ruby for 480i coming from the 79AVi is just plainly better.

I just wish I could put my hand on a Realta HQV or Gennum scaler to compare... Sigh...

The Ruby is a kick-ass projector. I'm really impressed. My D-VHS tapes never looked better. HD is king, and by far. It's really tough to go back to normal SD DVDs after that...

Sam S

12-19-05, 11:31 AM

jonnyozero3

12-19-05, 12:00 PM

Bill-99

12-19-05, 08:37 PM

Hi all,

Great thread.

As you might expect, there are (at least) a couple of us DV-59AVi owners wondering if we should make the leap. After lurking here reading the thread, it still isn't clear. It's probably just me. :-)

If I read this thread correctly, it can be summarized as follows: the picture is definitely better for HMDI, probably better for component, and the audio is incrementally better but not as good as the Onkyo SP1000. Is this right?

The audio is of particular interest. I've always viewed the 59 as a compromise on audio. How good is the 79 on audio via the analog outputs?

-Bill

heavyharmonies

12-19-05, 10:47 PM

newtr1

12-19-05, 10:51 PM

I will be receiving my 79 tomorrow. It will be hooked up to a 56TXi receiver via only the iLink. After reading the downloaded users manual, I assume that when using the Setup Navigator, I will answer No to having an analog connection and No to having a digital connection (I Know the iLink is a digital connection, but the manual seems to treat this as a separate entity).

Is this a correct assumption?

Robert George

12-19-05, 11:00 PM

Need one important (to me) piece of info on the 79AVi. Does it play PAL discs?

I know there is not PAL-to-NTSC conversion, but that's okay. I want PAL native. I know the 59AVi does it. Does the 79AVi?

jonnyozero3

12-19-05, 11:50 PM

It does handle PAL native. Check pages 64 and 72 of the manual (available at the pio website).

mimason

12-20-05, 08:20 AM

If I read this thread correctly, it can be summarized as follows: the picture is definitely better for HMDI, probably better for component, and the audio is incrementally better but not as good as the Onkyo SP1000. Is this right?

The audio is of particular interest. I've always viewed the 59 as a compromise on audio. How good is the 79 on audio via the analog outputs?

-Bill

I have both sp1000 and 79avi in house and while the 79avi seems to be a step up in audio from the 59avi the sp1000 is clearly better at audio imho via analog. Perhaps it is my setup as I have reveiling speakers but the 79avi has a thinner midrange than the 1000 and while the 79 has a strong bass sound the sp1000 seems more defined. This of course is moot if you are using ilink or hdmi which would make the 79avi the clear choice as it is much cheaper.

mimason

12-20-05, 08:28 AM

Got my Iscan HD+ set up this evening, and have been flipping back and forth between 480i (Iscan doing the processing) and 1080i (passthrough, 79avi doing the processing), and the verdict is...

Well, they're different, and the differences are very subtle. I'm not sure that one is inherently better than the other. With the HD+ doing the processing things are smoother, perhaps at the sake of some detail. You get a slightly more 3D effect with the HD+.

I'm splitting hairs though. If I didn't already own an HD+, I would say that it is not worth dropping $1,400 on the HD+ to improve over the 1080i HDMI performance of the 79avi.

My biggest problem is wading through all of the settings on both the 79avi and the Iscan, and trying to figure out what the best set of settings is to use on both. Some of the HDMI settings on the 79avi are difficult to see in action, i.e., I don't see any difference between setting "HDMI Detail" at minimum versus maximum... or is that because the 480i is unprocessed? If that's the case, then why do the IRE and black level settings have an effect? I thought the whole point was to NOT do anything at all to the 480i signal.

???

The scaler in the HD+ is a better. I've been toying around with using my HD+ and going from the 79 straight to the pj. I notice better resolution and more 3d like image. See if you like Full range RGB, 7.5 IRE, contract min, black -1 and have all setting on Iscan at default. I am sure you could also leave dvd setting at 0 and adjust the HD+ but this is a quick setup to try.

I agree with you that there does not seem to be a real 'direct' mode as all settings can be adjusted.

Regarding HDMI detail. Try watching the menu in the bottom of the screen while adjusting HDMI to min. You will see the outline disappear on the box. It adds ringing in the sharpness patterns in higher settings too.

wingnut4772

12-20-05, 10:41 AM

mimason,
I am considering the Onkyo SP1000 or the Pioneer 79 avi. I am not really all that concerned with nuances of improvement in the analog audio area.
The important thing for me is which sounds better for movies and which has the better PQ. I do listen to SACD and DVD Audio but maybe only 10%. So...which sounds better for HT?TIA
Darla

PooperScooper

12-20-05, 11:05 AM

Some of the HDMI settings on the 79avi are difficult to see in action, i.e., I don't see any difference between setting "HDMI Detail" at minimum versus maximum... or is that because the 480i is unprocessed? I think this has come up before. Doing edge enhancement on a half-frame would be a good trick. :) I ideally you don't want any video processing after the MPEG decoder for 480i except possibly for luma "expansion" for (broken) displays that only accept PC video levels, i.e black is 0 instead of 16 and white is 254(?) instead of 234.

larry

thedeskE

12-20-05, 11:45 AM

I have both sp1000 and 79avi in house and while the 79avi seems to be a step up in audio from the 59avi the sp1000 is clearly better at audio imho via analog. Perhaps it is my setup as I have reveiling speakers but the 79avi has a thinner midrange than the 1000 and while the 79 has a strong bass sound the sp1000 seems more defined. This of course is moot if you are using ilink or hdmi which would make the 79avi the clear choice as it is much cheaper.

Agree - I have a polite speaker amp combo (ACI/B&K) and hear the difference in the mid as well. I can't use firewire or HDMI for audio, so no opinion on those.
At twice the price, the SP's percentage of improvement is expensive.

A small progress report - last night's movie was Riddick. I could see a very noticable improvement in detail. The sets and armour have lots of subtle faux color work that really popped. One of those nice moments when you realize you're seeing much more. The 79 continues to impress here.

E

brt3

12-20-05, 12:01 PM

A small progress report - last night's movie was Riddick. I could see a very noticable improvement in detail. The sets and armour have lots of subtle faux color work that really popped. One of those nice moments when you realize you're seeing much more.This is exactly what I am hoping to gain by adding the 79 to my system. When I added the 59 I immediately noticed much finer detail elements; though the difference didn't jump out and grab you by the throat it was immediately noticable that there was a clear delineation of fine elements (like film grain, or the texture of the "armor" on the aliens at the start of "5th Element") that just wasn't there before. At the same time extraneous noise and edge detail were reduced...

newtr1

12-20-05, 12:01 PM

NemoZorro

12-20-05, 12:23 PM

AFAIK SACD is not passed via HDMI.

But if you are only concerned with DD for movies, is HDMI all the way thru a VSX74 OK?

PooperScooper

12-20-05, 12:40 PM

Help Anyone? i.Link is separate because it has to discover other i.Link components before it can be used. If you want to use i.Link, you have to enable it. At least this is how it works on previous Pio players.

larry

Bytehoven

12-20-05, 12:47 PM

I think this has come up before. Doing edge enhancement on a half-frame would be a good trick. :) I ideally you don't want any video processing after the MPEG decoder for 480i except possibly for luma "expansion" for (broken) displays that only accept PC video levels, i.e black is 0 instead of 16 and white is 254(?) instead of 234.

larry

(?) = 255 .... 0-255 is 256 steps = 8 bit

;-)

jcg

12-20-05, 01:43 PM

What is the benefit of turning black down to -1 on the 79AVi? Is there a reason to make the change on the DVD player vs the projector/TV? I did a basic calibration the other day using DVE and didn't need to make any changes to the 79AVi. Even on the Panny AE900 the changes from default were minor. I ended up turning brightness down 1 notch, color needed to go to -5 to even out the blue test and that was about it. Does this sound normal or should I have required more tweaking as this was my first time using DVE.

jcg

The scaler in the HD+ is a better. I've been toying around with using my HD+ and going from the 79 straight to the pj. I notice better resolution and more 3d like image. See if you like Full range RGB, 7.5 IRE, contract min, black -1 and have all setting on Iscan at default. I am sure you could also leave dvd setting at 0 and adjust the HD+ but this is a quick setup to try.

I agree with you that there does not seem to be a real 'direct' mode as all settings can be adjusted.

Regarding HDMI detail. Try watching the menu in the bottom of the screen while adjusting HDMI to min. You will see the outline disappear on the box. It adds ringing in the sharpness patterns in higher settings too.