Ok I have experienced motion sickness watching DLP projectors. You may not have. So I have every right to say DLP's are not for me. :)
And Oliver... blowing raspberrys at people is rather a tad childish dont you think?


Please do not misunderstand. I really did have this episode the last time I watched a DLP for more then an hour and I really did think it was the Sub that was too loud. It has been said to me by more then a few people that if the sub is running way to hot, it would induce similar results as motion sickness. But I am now thinking it might have to do with the DLP that many are now using? I am not using a DLP at the moment, but I will see if there are any more write up on this issue before I commit myself on a DLP projector. You know I recently just had another episode just a few weeks back at a forumers place...... Do you still have this issue on the newer DLPs? Or it affects you with all single DLP? ThanksAnd yes. I may have been happier if I did not know about deinterlacing issues, Cue issues...hell perhaps I should just never have gotton on AVSforum and I would be happier. But I am all for improvements and learning. Nothings perfect and I have come to accept it. The CUE issue on the Pio 79 is too much for even the Lumagen HDP CUE correction to get rid of totally. But I am really thinking of getting rid of my Denon 2900 and keeping only the Pio 79. So that says just how happy I am with the Pio 79......

Oliver[/QUOTE]
Hi Oliver

My apologies I thought you were having a lend of me.
Yes I have experienced this motion sickness with the top of the line Marantz triple DLP chip projector at a high-end HifIi/home cinema store in Adelaide South Australia.
The funny thing was that it was broadcasting a live game of Aussie Rules Football and my team Port Adelaide power were playing and you can imagine how dissapointed I was when I had to stop watching the screen because I started feeling sick.

I got it the first time I was watching a movie at a friends place with his single chip
DLP projector. A retailer here acknowledges the phenonomen effects people who are prone to motion sickness and advices such that they stay well clear of DLP and look at his LCD range.

I own the Hitachi PJtX100 LCD and have never experienced it.

And I do appreciate the time and effort you guys put into these forums.
I even went so close to reading a secrets instructional paper on how to recognise artefacts.
I stopped it ..because I recalled your words that you wished sometimes you never were made so aware of them as it can drive you nuts. I regret the day I asked my friends what "MBE"was and after they pointed it out and made sure I could recognise it .... I now look for it everytime I am watching any DVD with a Faroudja chip.
From that day I swore I would appreciatethe 989 DVD player for what it was designed for ie to entertain me with great PQ and sound quailty.
But let this not detract from the interaction you and many others have in discussing the problems with the player.

Hi Shane,

The HDMI option remains greyed out until it senses an HDMI connection. It might be that the Plasma did not like having the component and hdmi hooked up at the same time.
Unplug everything, plug in the hdmi at both ends and then power both units on. That should solve that problem.

As for layer change, it is slow, and I do think the 3910 was a little faster, but I would still take the 79 hands down.

God bless...

Mark

Mark...
Yes, and here's the wierd thing. We went to the Hitachi and the Fujitsu and finally to the Panny 60u and did the same series of moves. Component plugged in and not. Composite(!) plugged in and not. Powered both the 79 and each plasma on and off in different sequences... ugh! We went through 3 different HDMI cables! We were doing this with these three plasma's for WAY too long. :(

That darn HDMI option just would not un-grey! So we gave up and I watched portions of The Incredibles... and loved the way it looked on the Panny.

Honestly, I think this was a bad unit. I did find out that the mosquito noise WAS caused by the 2-year old Elite plasma. They fed it another source and... there it was. Gee... I guess that doesn't bode well for Elite plasmas ;)

I'll go back next weekend and maybe just buy one, bring it home and test it's audio capabilities (being that I don't have a good video display yet). If it does what I need it to do in that regard, I'll just keep it and *assume* the video end of it will be just as good.

cheers.

shane

The 79avi does not pass BtB on a Pioneer 930hd using DVE. I set the 79 to direct , i would think a player at this price would pass BtB. Any suggestions guys? Its been a hectic day especially figuring out i had to enable HDMI on the tv "of all things they put it on page 69 grrrr.

Has anyone tried the DTS/DD decoder on the Pio 79? I was thinking of giving it a try as it has distance adjustments in 0.1m which is what I wanted. If anyone has tried it and compared with their reciever or Processor please chime in with your thoughts.

Oliver

The 79avi does not pass BtB on a Pioneer 930hd using DVE. I set the 79 to direct , i would think a player at this price would pass BtB. Any suggestions guys?
Mine passes BtB on the component output--with both 0 IRE and 10 IRE black setup. But I believe someone said that it only passes BtB over HDMI with the 10 IRE setup (the default). Check to see if you have changed that setting.

Has anyone tried the DTS/DD decoder on the Pio 79? I was thinking of giving it a try as it has distance adjustments in 0.1m which is what I wanted. If anyone has tried it and compared with their reciever or Processor please chime in with your thoughts.

Oliver

I had the analog outs connected to my Pioneer 74 and the sound was very good but not as good as the I-LINK I have now. I had the analog cables hooked to my receiver because my old SACD player didn't have I-LINK. I can't say anything about 5.1 analog out X coax or toslink digital but I believe that the rank would be I-LINK,Analog,and the digital out.

Sergio

I ran into a weird situation yesterday with my 79a. I put in a dvd that I had burned from my camcorder. It is a Sony camcorder that I had set to 16:9. I burned it using sonic. When I went to watch it, the 79 locked onto it as if it were 4:3. I tried switching to 480p but no luck. It still assumed that it was 4:3. I've never had this problem before with my Denon 1600 (sadly it is dead) nor my Sammy 850.

Thoughts?

I ran into a weird situation yesterday with my 79a. I put in a dvd that I had burned from my camcorder. It is a Sony camcorder that I had set to 16:9. I burned it using sonic. When I went to watch it, the 79 locked onto it as if it were 4:3. I tried switching to 480p but no luck. It still assumed that it was 4:3. I've never had this problem before with my Denon 1600 (sadly it is dead) nor my Sammy 850.

Thoughts?

Very strange I haven't had this problem with video shot on my panny gs400.
Not familar with sonic but does it give you the option to burn in 4:3 or 16:9. Maybe check the settings.
Finally if all fails change the apect ratio on your TV.

In the initial setup of the 79 to a pioneer 930hd what do you set the hdmi to; full RGB or just RGB? I think my setting for the dvd player is not getting saved as i put in a different disk and going to display setup its not on direct mode and all the levels i adjusted are back at default.

Can you guys check my process.

1. Initial setup should be hdmi with full RGB or RGB?

2. mode should be direct

3. display setting> memory1>direct> then all other adjustments

4. Enter

When i put in a new dvd it should automatically use memory 1 or do i have to tell it to everytime?

TRy pressing menu to exit instead of enter. I use components 12-bits instead of RGB to my Mitsubishi 73927. When you use memory 1 and "load' the direct mode to it you will see memory 1 next time you play a DVD and not direct mode. The momory 1 will have all the direct mode settings plus your own adjustments. You don't have to do it every time you put a new disk.

Sergio

I got how the memory works now. One more question for 79avi gurus. I seem to be getting conflicting answers. For the best video picture on the plasma i should set the dvd player to 480i over hdmi correct? and let the plasma scale it to its native resolution. There seems to be people over in the plasma thread that are sending out the video in 1080i. Which is the best?

Thanks

I had the analog outs connected to my Pioneer 74 and the sound was very good but not as good as the I-LINK I have now. I had the analog cables hooked to my receiver because my old SACD player didn't have I-LINK. I can't say anything about 5.1 analog out X coax or toslink digital but I believe that the rank would be I-LINK,Analog,and the digital out.

Sergio

Thanks. I guess I will have to give it a try to see how it compares to my rotel processor.

Oliver

I got how the memory works now. One more question for 79avi gurus. I seem to be getting conflicting answers. For the best video picture on the plasma i should set the dvd player to 480i over hdmi correct? and let the plasma scale it to its native resolution. There seems to be people over in the plasma thread that are sending out the video in 1080i. Which is the best?

Thanks

It will depend on the quality of your plasma video processing. The Fugitsu or Pioneer Elite will probably do a better job with 480i but for the rest I guess 1080i or 720P is the way to go.

Sergio

I got how the memory works now. One more question for 79avi gurus. I seem to be getting conflicting answers. For the best video picture on the plasma i should set the dvd player to 480i over hdmi correct? and let the plasma scale it to its native resolution. There seems to be people over in the plasma thread that are sending out the video in 1080i. Which is the best?

ThanksUse what looks best to you.

larry

i am currently very interested in buying the 79avi elite. but i have a queston.i read so many good things about the player and its upconversion but i have a 34 inch screen hd crt. i currently have been using the progressive scan of my sony player and been pleased but will i get the benefits of the upconversion on a small screen like mine?
Brandonc

i am currently very interested in buying the 79avi elite. but i have a queston.i read so many good things about the player and its upconversion but i have a 34 inch screen hd crt. i currently have been using the progressive scan of my sony player and been pleased but will i get the benefits of the upconversion on a small screen like mine?
Brandonc

I wouldn't spend the money to buy the 79 with a 34" display. The improvement will be negligible, if any. Save your money for a HD-DVD/BD when and if they take off.

Sergio

with a 34" display. The improvement will be negligible, if any.

Respectfully disagree. I have a 36" ISF calibrated HD CRT in 2nd setup and can easily spot differences bewteen various players but I am the critical type though. :)

Respectfully disagree. I have a 36" ISF calibrated HD CRT in 2nd setup and can easily spot differences bewteen various players but I am the critical type though. :)
And I agree with you. I have a 36" SD CRT (waiting for the 1080p plasmas), and the 79 looks better than anything else I have ever seen. I feel the 79 is amazing player that will give you the most out of your setup no matter what the setup may be.

Unless you have a display that is large enough to show its flaws in all their glory!

Sorry, couldn't resist it :D

Unless you have a display that is large enough to show its flaws in all their glory!

Sorry, couldn't resist it :D

What flaws? I can't see any on my 73 " display. You wanna see flaws? Go to Kris lab or buy a Denon and enjoy the MB.

Sergio

thanks for the input guys . im going to go for it and see what happens. im saving up for an elite 50" down the road anyway. im aware that the blueray elite is coming in may but i think i may sit out the format war till a clear winner is in sight.



def tech 7002s
deftech 2300
pioneer elite 74txvi
def tech supercubeI
4 def tech bpvx
sony 34hs420
pioneer elite 79avi (soon )
panamax 5300

What flaws? I can't see any on my 73 " display. You wanna see flaws? Go to Kris lab or buy a Denon and enjoy the MB.

Sergio

100inch screen+Ruby, I can clearly see QUE (and ICP I'm sure) and deinterlacing artifacts, you don't need to be in a lab to see its difficencies, claiming its the best player since sliced bread is just plain nonsence, for pure PQ I suspect you can get better for less.

You may be happy with a less than perfect picture, not everyone is. I'm not claiming denon are better, I own a 989 due to the MBE issue (I'm very familier with it), however this doesn't mean the player is not without issues that some will see.

John.

Can any 79avi owners tell me if this player can play DVDs in the DVD +R DL format?
That is, DVD +R DUAL LAYER DVDs?

Thank you.

100inch screen+Ruby, I can clearly see QUE (and ICP I'm sure) and deinterlacing artifacts, you don't need to be in a lab to see its difficencies, claiming its the best player since sliced bread is just plain nonsence, for pure PQ I suspect you can get better for less.

You may be happy with a less than perfect picture, not everyone is. I'm not claiming denon are better, I own a 989 due to the MBE issue (I'm very familier with it), however this doesn't mean the player is not without issues that some will see.

John.

Hi John

If you claim you own a player with such noticable faults on your Ruby and can buy something that can give you better PQ for less.
Then what is stopping you?
Surely you still can get a decent quid for the player.., then buy your player with better pq and have spare cash to boot.
This advice is coming from an Accountant :D

for pure PQ I suspect you can get better for less.

John.

You may be right

As someone seriously considering the 79 I'd be interested in hearing what "better for less" player might be.

I liked the Panny in many....except the MB and am getting tired of waiting for the new HK

100inch screen+Ruby, I can clearly see QUE (and ICP I'm sure) and deinterlacing artifacts, you don't need to be in a lab to see its difficencies, claiming its the best player since sliced bread is just plain nonsence, for pure PQ I suspect you can get better for less.


Come on John... The Ruby deserves better then that! ;) The 79AVi is one of the few player out there with 480i over HDMI. Do like me, and use that rather unique "feature". Use the 79AVi to a Gennum VXP scaler, and then to the Ruby with true 480i and 1080i per-pixel motion adaptive de-interlacing to 1080p. You will see. Nothing out there can touch that kind of PQ.

Please. Don't put one of those 200$ HDMI players on the Ruby. You have one of the best digital projector out there. Go get a Realta HQV or Gennum VXP scaler, combine it with the 79AVi at 480i over HDMI, and then enjoy the awesome PQ!

My Ruby is simply another projector with the Gennum.

Hi John

If you claim you own a player with such noticable faults on your Ruby and can buy something that can give you better PQ for less.
Then what is stopping you?
Surely you still can get a decent quid for the player.., then buy your player with better pq and have spare cash to boot.
This advice is coming from an Accountant :D

Simple answer really, interlaced output over HDMI for use with an external processor. Basically I bought the player for that reason, but I was frankly stunned at the faults in the picture given by its own processing, particularily given how highly others had rated it. Now I wouldn't bother flying in the face of the tide of opinion but I really think people spending their hard earned cash on these things should be advised to compare with other cheaper players before buying the 989.

John.

You may be right

As someone seriously considering the 79 I'd be interested in hearing what "better for less" player might be.

I liked the Panny in many....except the MB and am getting tired of waiting for the new HK

If you're really adverse to MB go for a 59, basically no diffrence over HDMI but cheaper, or the other alternative is any player based on the SiI504 (if you can find one with HDMI!).

Personally I think the whole MBE issue is being somewhat overstated, generally only being an issue for me on darker scenes and then only on some DVD's, so I think anyone upgrading from a lesser player should demo the panny and the denons, particularily if you prefer a sharper image.

John.

Come on John... The Ruby deserves better then that! ;) The 79AVi is one of the few player out there with 480i over HDMI. Do like me, and use that rather unique "feature". Use the 79AVi to a Gennum VXP scaler, and then to the Ruby with true 480i and 1080i per-pixel motion adaptive de-interlacing to 1080p. You will see. Nothing out there can touch that kind of PQ.

Please. Don't put one of those 200$ HDMI players on the Ruby. You have one of the best digital projector out there. Go get a Realta HQV or Gennum VXP scaler, combine it with the 79AVi at 480i over HDMI, and then enjoy the awesome PQ!

My Ruby is simply another projector with the Gennum.

Interlaced out over HDMI for use with a processor is exactly why I bought it! But while waiting for my processor I've had plenty of time to enjoy the 79AVi's apparently non existent issues in all their glory:rolleyes:

You're very lucky to have a beta VXP based processor, I've still got a couple of weeks to wait before I can lay my hands on a CII :(

Later,
John.

Can any 79avi owners tell me if this player can play DVDs in the DVD +R DL format?
That is, DVD +R DUAL LAYER DVDs?

Thank you.

No problem at all!

If you're really adverse to MB go for a 59, basically no diffrence over HDMI but cheaper, or the other alternative is any player based on the SiI504 (if you can find one with HDMI!).

Personally I think the whole MBE issue is being somewhat overstated, generally only being an issue for me on darker scenes and then only on some DVD's, so I think anyone upgrading from a lesser player should demo the panny and the denons, particularily if you prefer a sharper image.

John.


John/Con219

I think everyone has their own "taste" and tolerance to faults. To me I hate MBE much more then deinterlacing faults. But I hate Edge enhancement the most. Thats why this arguement about the deinterlacing faults by the DV79 has been going round in circles with so many disagreements. I totally agree with you on the deinterlacing faults of the DV79. But it does many other things right such picture pop factor and colours. Or as I told con219, dont read about deinterlacing faults and maybe you can forget about them and just enjoy the picture :p

For me I am still deciding on if the Dv79 hdmi to my lumagen HDP is better of my SDI mod denon 2900 to my lumagen HDP is better. Well hopefully the vantage arrives soon and solve my problem haaaa..... In the meantime just enjoy your purchase.

Oliver

John/Con219

I think everyone has their own "taste" and tolerance to faults. To me I hate MBE much more then deinterlacing faults. But I hate Edge enhancement the most. Thats why this arguement about the deinterlacing faults by the DV79 has been going round in circles with so many disagreements. I totally agree with you on the deinterlacing faults of the DV79. But it does many other things right such picture pop factor and colours. Or as I told con219, dont read about deinterlacing faults and maybe you can forget about them and just enjoy the picture :p

For me I am still deciding on if the Dv79 hdmi to my lumagen HDP is better of my SDI mod denon 2900 to my lumagen HDP is better. Well hopefully the vantage arrives soon and solve my problem haaaa..... In the meantime just enjoy your purchase.

Oliver

Hi Oliver,

I found that my old faroudja based samsung had a very sharp picture without any noticable of edge enhancement, but it had serious problems in dark scenes due to MBE and not passing pluge, these last two the 989 does excel at along with depth of colour, but the relative lack of sharpness, chroma and deinterlacing issues etc, well, I've said enough already on these. These issues aren't a long term problem with impending arrival of a CII, I was just stunned by how visible they where to me given how dismissive others are of them.

I assume you're pushing the the pio into the HDP in interlaced mode? If so you won't be seeing a lot of the problems, the HDP will even minimise que for you so I think you've got a pretty good setup anyway. I'd imagine the SD moded 2900 would be marginally better due to the absence of que, but would be interresting to here what you conclude.

Regards,
John.

I was just stunned by how visible they where to me given how dismissive others are of them.


Not everyone is using a 1080p Sony Ruby like us... ;) On a big screen and with a projector like that, every problem just jumps in your face!

John. Did you try the 79AVi at 480i over HDMI directly to the Ruby? The Ruby de-interlacer was doing a fine job for me before using the gennum VXP chip. In the 79AVi, use "720X480i", "component 12 bit" and Copy "Direct" to "Memory 1" and don't touch anything else. Put film mode "On" in the Ruby menu.

Just let the Ruby do the de-interlacing and scaling instead of the 79AVi.

If someone could answer this question I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!!

Can any 79avi owners tell me if this player can play DVDs in the DVD +R DL format?
That is, DVD +R DUAL LAYER DVDs?

Thank you.

benrub,

Look a whole 4 posts above yours for an answer to the first time you asked.

Not everyone is using a 1080p Sony Ruby like us... ;) On a big screen and with a projector like that, every problem just jumps in your face!

John. Did you try the 79AVi at 480i over HDMI directly to the Ruby? The Ruby de-interlacer was doing a fine job for me before using the gennum VXP chip. In the 79AVi, use "720X480i", "component 12 bit" and Copy "Direct" to "Memory 1" and don't touch anything else. Put film mode "On" in the Ruby menu.

Just let the Ruby do the de-interlacing and scaling instead of the 79AVi.

Yep have tried it and have found it to be a bit of a mixed bag, seems to have problems with 2:2 pull down on PAL sources, so I tend to swap and change between it and the 989's processing depending on what I'm watching.

John.

I've noticed on my player that when I stop a movie and then restart it continues exactly from the point it stopped (most of the time). Other players I've had generally jump back a few seconds when resuming. This player seems to do this (back a few seconds) on occasion but mostly not. Is this a quirk with this model or is my particular unit just being difficult?

I'm using HDMI 1080i in case that's relevant.

Thanks,
Dave

Simple answer really, interlaced output over HDMI for use with an external processor. Basically I bought the player for that reason, but I was frankly stunned at the faults in the picture given by its own processing, particularily given how highly others had rated it. Now I wouldn't bother flying in the face of the tide of opinion but I really think people spending their hard earned cash on these things should be advised to compare with other cheaper players before buying the 989.

John.

Hi John

Obviously you are not a happpy chappy from the constant amount of disparaging comments that seems to emanate from you whenever another forum member even suggests he or she is happy with the 79 (989).
I respect you have your opinion and you are not over joyed by the 989.
This is more the reason to "just let it go" and buy something that you will be happy with.
There is no point stressing over in your opinion "stunned by the flaws".
There are more bigger and important issues in life to focus your energies on and hence stressing over a poor decision to purchase the 989 IMO is not one of them.

Regards con219

John/Con219

I think everyone has their own "taste" and tolerance to faults. To me I hate MBE much more then deinterlacing faults. But I hate Edge enhancement the most. Thats why this arguement about the deinterlacing faults by the DV79 has been going round in circles with so many disagreements. I totally agree with you on the deinterlacing faults of the DV79. But it does many other things right such picture pop factor and colours. Or as I told con219, dont read about deinterlacing faults and maybe you can forget about them and just enjoy the picture :p

For me I am still deciding on if the Dv79 hdmi to my lumagen HDP is better of my SDI mod denon 2900 to my lumagen HDP is better. Well hopefully the vantage arrives soon and solve my problem haaaa..... In the meantime just enjoy your purchase.

Oliver
Well said Oliver :)

Hi John

Obviously you are not a happpy chappy from the constant amount of disparaging comments that seems to emanate from you whenever another forum member even suggests he or she is happy with the 79 (989).
I respect you have your opinion and you are not over joyed by the 989.
This is more the reason to "just let it go" and buy something that you will be happy with.
There is no point stressing over in your opinion "stunned by the flaws".
There are more bigger and important issues in life to focus your energies on and hence stressing over a poor decision to purchase the 989 IMO is not one of them.

Regards con219

If you weren't being so partisan you might have noticed the real reason I bought and own this player in that post instead of making an irrelevent and condescending comment.

Sigh :rolleyes:

John.

Uh, er, so how about that 79? ;)

If you weren't being so partisan you might have noticed the real reason I bought and own this player in that post instead of making an irrelevent and condescending comment.

Sigh :rolleyes:

John.

Hi John

I am not being condescending and If my comment has been interpretted by you as being that I genuinely apologise.
AllI am saying to you and many others who feel somehow "sucked in" because they purchased this player is to stop feeling this way and go and buy
something else that you will feel a lot more happier with.
Feeling miserable about a DVD player is something I dont rate highly on my scale of priorities in life especially if I can rectify it .

Hi John

I am not being condescending and If my comment has been interpretted by you as being that I genuinely apologise.
AllI am saying to you and many others who feel somehow "sucked in" because they purchased this player is to stop feeling this way and go and buy
something else that you will feel a lot more happier with.
Feeling miserable about a DVD player is something I dont rate highly on my scale of priorities in life especially if I can rectify it .

Its cool.

To be clear I don't feel sucked in, its not a bad player it has some very strong plus points, on the whole I'm happy, it does what I bought it for i.e interlaced over HDMI, and once I get my vid proc it'll all be stunning, but its not without its faults.
Now, given that quiet a few people visit these forums to get advice on purchase decisions I think its only fair that any flaws are made clear along with good points. Don't forget that I was involved in your purchase descision in the thread over on avforums, it didn't influence your decision in the end but would you have prefered I hadn't mentioned the problems that the player has? And, to be honest given the price you paid I think you made the right choice (300-400 pounds cheaper than in UK). Anyway, so when I see a post proclaiming that this player will give the best PQ of any player on any display I'm going to respond, its not about being miserable or having an axe to grind, its all about being unbiased.

.... and of course enjoying a good arguement :)

Later,
John.

Its cool.

To be clear I don't feel sucked in, its not a bad player it has some very strong plus points, on the whole I'm happy, it does what I bought it for i.e interlaced over HDMI, and once I get my vid proc it'll all be stunning, but its not without its faults.
Now, given that quiet a few people visit these forums to get advice on purchase decisions I think its only fair that any flaws are made clear along with good points. Don't forget that I was involved in your purchase descision in the thread over on avforums, it didn't influence your decision in the end but would you have prefered I hadn't mentioned the problems that the player has? And, to be honest given the price you paid I think you made the right choice (300-400 pounds cheaper than in UK). Anyway, so when I see a post proclaiming that this player will give the best PQ of any player on any display I'm going to respond, its not about being miserable or having an axe to grind, its all about being unbiased.

.... and of course enjoying a good arguement :)

Later,
John.

Thanks John for clearing the air and I appreciate your response above.

Take care.

What does this player retail for in the UK?

RRP £799, haven't seen it anywhere for under £700 (think £729, but can't remember where).

John.

RRP £799, haven't seen it anywhere for under £700 (think £729, but can't remember where).

John.

That converts to $1620CDN or $1389US.

Over here the retail for the 79 is $1499CDN (which is too high IMHO) and $1000US

You may be right in saying that, based on UK pricing, there should be other options to consider.

Well...since my 3910 never shipped, I cancelled the order and placed an order today for a DV-79AVi.

I'm very anxious to get this machine...it's the last piece of the puzzle in my new dedicated HT.

Well...since my 3910 never shipped, I cancelled the order and placed an order today for a DV-79AVi.

I'm very anxious to get this machine...it's the last piece of the puzzle in my new dedicated HT.

You will be very happy. Watch Memoirs of a Geisha and tell me if it doesn't look like highdef. Amazing!

Sergio

Hi everyone!

I just received my Pioneer Elite 79Avi yesterday. I've seen many people have issues with this player, all I can say in return I have none. Here is how my HT story started I have purchased my Pioneer Elite 43TX Receiver about 2.5 years ago and in between I purchased my Elite 47Ai DVD Player, I taught that the 47Ai was the best there is for the money, well it was the best until I received the 79Avi last night. The interesting thing is that the 47Ai, 59Avi and 79Avi are all Flagship DVD Players from Pioneer Elite, but like I said the 79avi changed my system so much, that sometimes I cannot believe what a difference it makes. So all I am saying is that so far no other company suprised me like Pioneer has with their DVD players and receivers, and for $800 shipped to my door there is nothing out there that will beat it.

I am very happy with this purchase and I would recommend this player to anyone who wants the best audio and video from their DVD player.



Here is my system:

Def Tech BP8B Fronts
Def Tech CLR 1000 Center
Def Tech Mythis Gem Rears
Def Tech PF15+ Subwoofer
Pioneer Elite 43TX Receiver which will be upgraded to the new 56TXi or 59TXi
Pioneer Elite 47Ai and 79Avi DVD Player
Elite Screens 100 Inch
Infocus 4805 Projector
Monster Power Center HT3500

Hi everyone!

I just received my Pioneer Elite 79Avi yesterday. I've seen many people have issues with this player, all I can say in return I have none. Here is how my HT story started I have purchased my Pioneer Elite 43TX Receiver about 2.5 years ago and in between I purchased my Elite 47Ai DVD Player, I taught that the 47Ai was the best there is for the money, well it was the best until I received the 79Avi last night. The interesting thing is that the 47Ai, 59Avi and 79Avi are all Flagship DVD Players from Pioneer Elite, but like I said the 79avi changed my system so much, that sometimes I cannot believe what a difference it makes. So all I am saying is that so far no other company suprised me like Pioneer has with their DVD players and receivers, and for $800 shipped to my door there is nothing out there that will beat it.

I am very happy with this purchase and I would recommend this player to anyone who wants the best audio and video from their DVD player.



Here is my system:

Def Tech BP8B Fronts
Def Tech CLR 1000 Center
Def Tech Mythis Gem Rears
Def Tech PF15+ Subwoofer
Pioneer Elite 43TX Receiver which will be upgraded to the new 56TXi or 59TXi
Pioneer Elite 47Ai and 79Avi DVD Player
Elite Screens 100 Inch
Infocus 4805 Projector
Monster Power Center HT3500
What specific improvements did you notice over the 47ai? Or, just overall better PQ/SQ? Did you happen to compare for hi-res music (DVDA, SACD)?

Hi everyone!

and for $800 shipped to my door there is nothing out there that will beat it.

I am very happy with this purchase and I would recommend this player to anyone who wants the best audio and video from their DVD player. Where did you purchase it?

Where did you purchase it?

Was just gonna ask the same thing! ;)

What specific improvements did you notice over the 47ai? Or, just overall better PQ/SQ? Did you happen to compare for hi-res music (DVDA, SACD)?

Well the 79Avi blew away my 47Ai in CD, SACD, DVD Audio. and of course DVD

I tired movies, concerts, and everything you can think of and my sound was even warmer and so much powerful especially SACD

I love it LOL

Where did you purchase it?

I purchased it from hypeaudio

There is 2 more that I also like as online retailers which is

pricesriteand etronics

Also I did have to buy an extra warranty which was $99.99 for 3 years, so the end price was below MSRP, which is very good I think


hope this helps

Is the warrany you bought effective immediately or after the manufacturer warranty expires? If it's the latter, you could be left high and dry if the unit dies before the Pio warranty expires. However, chances of problems with the unit are slim. The Pio Elite players have been extremely reliable.

larry

Is the warrany you bought effective immediately or after the manufacturer warranty expires? If it's the latter, you could be left high and dry if the unit dies before the Pio warranty expires. However, chances of problems with the unit are slim. The Pio Elite players have been extremely reliable.

larryWhy is this? Why wouldn't the factory warranty cover it if it breaks during the factory warranty period? I recently bought an elite plasma with a two year factory warranty. I have an extended warranty that takes into effect for 4 years immediately after the factory warranty expires. That gives me a total of 6 years under warranty. Is this not true?

Why is this? Why wouldn't the factory warranty cover it if it breaks during the factory warranty period? I recently bought an elite plasma with a two year factory warranty. I have an extended warranty that takes into effect for 4 years immediately after the factory warranty expires. That gives me a total of 6 years under warranty. Is this not true?

Read you warranty carefully. (caveat emptor applies)

It may say 2 years extended warranty but the warranty may run concurrently with the manufacturer's warranty which means that on a player with a three year manufacturer's warranty the extended warranty purchases is a waste of money.

I have come accross this issue and have read the fine detail of my proposed warranty contract on my 989 which comes with the 1 year Pio warranty.
The extended warranty plan was for 5 years but the fine writing indicated that it begins on the day the unit was purchased. I then asked the dealer to give me a "true" 5 year extended warranty with a reputable company and he did with no difference in price. This means my player has in total six years

Read you warranty carefully. (caveat emptor applies)

It may say 2 years extended warranty but the warranty may run concurrently with the manufacturer's warranty which means that on a player with a three year manufacturer's warranty the extended warranty purchases is a waste of money.

I have come accross this issue and have read the fine detail of my proposed warranty contract on my 989 which comes with the 1 year Pio warranty.
The extended warranty plan was for 5 years but the fine writing indicated that it begins on the day the unit was purchased. I then asked the dealer to give me a "true" 5 year extended warranty with a reputable company and he did with no difference in price. This means my player has in total six yearsI didn't get the docs yet. I'll have to call the dealer. I asked if it ran concurrently with the factory warranty and they said no. They said they will write the purchase date equal to 2 yrs after the actual date the tv will arrive. The tv is on backorder. This is a total of 2 year factory + 4 years extended = 6 yrs. I thought it sounded strange, but a good deal if it's legit.

The 79avi is definitely worth it. My point was that sometimes you can match or beat prices from internet companies with added security of buying from a local authorized dealer.

Bill

I didn't get the docs yet. I'll have to call the dealer. I asked if it ran concurrently with the factory warranty and they said no. They said they will write the purchase date equal to 2 yrs after the actual date the tv will arrive. The tv is on backorder. This is a total of 2 year factory + 4 years extended = 6 yrs. I thought it sounded strange, but a good deal if it's legit.

The extended coverage normally runs concurrently with the factory warranty. It starts the day of purchase and ,if your dealer says it will make the day of sale a day after the factory one expires , it looks like a potential fraud to me. I wouldn't buy anything from people who suggests this kind of deal. Since the Pioneer Elite has a 2 years warranty I have a feeling that you actually bought just one extra year. This kind of deal reminds me when I was living in NYC and used to see a 500.00 camera going for 400.00 plus the included battery for 150.00.

Sergio

Results posted to help people set player up for best results not as critisism!


Auto1 Auot2 Slow Slow-1 Mid Fast Ruby

Colour Bar 10 10 10 10 10 5 10
Jaggies 1 3 -> 0 3 3 3 3
Jaggies 2 1 -> 0 1 1 1 3
Flag 5 -> 0 5 5 5 5
Pic Detail 5 - - - - - 0
NR 5 - - - - - 5
MA NR 5 - - - - - 0
3:2 Det 0 0 0 0 0 0 5
Cadence:
2:2 5 5 - - - - 0
2:2:2:4 0 5 - - - - 0
2:3:3:2 0 0 - - - - 0
3:2:3:2:2 0 0 - - - - 0
5:5 0 0 - - - - 5
6:4 0 0 - - - - 0
8:7 0 0 - - - - 0
3:2 5 5 - - - - 5

Mixed 3:2 H 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Mixed 3:2 V 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Total 44 -> 40 49 49 44 46


Key :
- Same as other columns
-> Tested withh different motion slider settings :-
Slow = Fully right
Slow -1 = One notch off fully right
Mid = Center
Fast = Fully left

Comments:
Only exact scores used from manual so as to minimise subjectiveness, although NR and detail tests are really subjective, rest seem to have pretty hard and fast rules.
More work on detial tests possible but generally increasing detail only causes ringing so don't expect an improvement.
Fast motion setting seems to fail to handle alternate black and white feild (test point 1 just flickers), all other positions are fine with this test.
Jaggies test 1 was right on the edge for dropping to a score of 1.
3:2 pull down marked as fail but this seem to hit a '5' on one instance but have never managed to reproduce.
Standard 2:2 and 3:2 cadence detect seems good (surprised me on 2:2 as its isn't my experience, although thats 60 not 50Hz 2:2 so...)
Fast motion slider was marked as pass for mixed 3:2/Video vertical test, but it takes a few frames to correct itself, so should really be a fail, have now changed the score to reflect this.
Could do with spending more time messing with NR setting, particularily of the MA NR test, which I think should probably be 0 as I'm pretty certain there's no MA NR.
Ruby column is PJ results
Have a couple of other players that I'll add when I have time.

Suggestions for 79AVi setup:
Never set your motion slide to 'Slow', this gave worst results in _all_ jaggies tests, also don't use 'Fast' as the test implies loss of detail on still images.
Best mode seems to be auto2 with Fast < motion slider pos <Slow, I set to Slow -1 myself.

Regards,
John

Edit: added some info on motion slider = fast fo colour bar test and mixed 3:2 V, correct fast position score.

John

Thank you for the info. Good job. I have only one major beef with the 79: The HDMI DETAIL setting. If you set to zero you avoid EE but it produces a terrible "clayface" effect. Look at trees and you see what looks like a green dough, you can't see the leaves. Set HDMI detail to anything but zero and the leaves are back but it does produce some EE. I didn't try the components but I can guarantee that with HDMI you are going to see the same.

Sergio

Since the Pioneer Elite has a 2 years warranty.
Sergio

This is interesting.

The Elites have a 3 year warranty in Canada

Why is this? Why wouldn't the factory warranty cover it if it breaks during the factory warranty period? I recently bought an elite plasma with a two year factory warranty. I have an extended warranty that takes into effect for 4 years immediately after the factory warranty expires. That gives me a total of 6 years under warranty. Is this not true? If the "dealer" that sells the Elite player is not an authorized dealer, the manufacturer's warranty will not be honored by Pio. So if the extra warranty comes into play after the manufacturers warranty, any problem that occurs during the manufacturers warranty period will not be covered. If the extra warranty if effective upon purchase, then no problem.

If you bought your plasma from an authorized Pioneer dealer, you're good to go for 6 years.

larry

John

Thank you for the info. Good job. I have only one major beef with the 79: The HDMI DETAIL setting. If you set to zero you avoid EE but it produces a terrible "clayface" effect. Look at trees and you see what looks like a green dough, you can't see the leaves. Set HDMI detail to anything but zero and the leaves are back but it does produce some EE. I didn't try the components but I can guarantee that with HDMI you are going to see the same.

Sergio
As you say winding the HDMI detail up fixes the clay face problem but you're left balancing detail against edge enhancement/ringing. Coming from a faroudja based player this was one of the hardest things to "get past".

John.

If the "dealer" that sells the Elite player is not an authorized dealer, the manufacturer's warranty will not be honored by Pio. So if the extra warranty comes into play after the manufacturers warranty, any problem that occurs during the manufacturers warranty period will not be covered. If the extra warranty if effective upon purchase, then no problem.

If you bought your plasma from an authorized Pioneer dealer, you're good to go for 6 years.

larryYeap, it's an authorized dealer. thanks

I purchased it from hypeaudio

There is 2 more that I also like as online retailers which is

pricesriteand etronics

Also I did have to buy an extra warranty which was $99.99 for 3 years, so the end price was below MSRP, which is very good I think


hope this helps



That’s upsetting XXX... In Canada (Vancouver) best deal I could get was xxxx CAD including taxes. Anyone knows any Canadian online retailers?

That’s upsetting XXX... In Canada (Vancouver) best deal I could get was XXXX CAD including taxes. Anyone knows any Canadian online retailers?

I agree that we get shafted in Canada with Pioneer pricing. No different with Denon or Onkyo or Marantz.

Have you seen the price of the Onkyo SP-1000, Canada vs USA ?

Shocking :(

Having said that, you got a great price for this market.
I'm looking for one of these too (or maybe a 3910)
Can you PM me the dealer's name? I think I know but would like to confirm.

Please stop the price talk. Thanks.

larry

There seems to be very little talk of the audio side of the Pio 79. I am mainly interested in hearing options as well as tech talk of the hi-bit and Legato Pro feature. As I understand, The Pio 79 uses the AD1896? that the Anthem D2 uses for upsampling all stereo CD to 24(hi-bit)/196?(standard upsampling). Is this correct? My questions are these

1. Has anyone ever tried enabling hi-bit/standard upsampling and compared it against both or either of these options off and what do you feel is the difference?

2. What does the Filter 1 to 4 actaully do other then the brief description of the manual? Anyone knows what it actually does? Apply certain filters?

My initial hearing test is that enabling the hi-bit/standard upsampling is that it adds some warmth to CD sound. However, it still sounds very lean in the mids as compared to my Denon 2900. Dont really know if I like the sound of the Pio 79 as of yet. Note that I noticed that if you enable hi-bit and standard upsampling at the same time, it seems to reduce the volume output. I had to increase my preamp by 6db to get it to equal the previous volume before enabling these features. Of course all comparisions were level matched and outputs pure analog with no other processing added. Not a blind test too.

Anyone else tried these options please do weigh in with your thoughts.

Oliver

Hi there

Well I do have both the 47Ai and the 79Avi and all I can say that the 79Avi is the best Pioneer Elite Universal DVD player I have ever owned or used.
Also there is a difference in the sound with the 79Avi
It even beats the Denon 3910 so to me that is excellent

But then again I hooked up my 47Ai to my 2 channel stereo in SACD and all I can say is WOW, this is the first time I used it on my 2 channel setup.

But I am sure the 79Avi will kill my beloved 47Ai

But yes there is a huge difference between the 2 players


I love both



Levi
There seems to be very little talk of the audio side of the Pio 79. I am mainly interested in hearing options as well as tech talk of the hi-bit and Legato Pro feature. As I understand, The Pio 79 uses the AD1896? that the Anthem D2 uses for upsampling all stereo CD to 24(hi-bit)/196?(standard upsampling). Is this correct? My questions are these

1. Has anyone ever tried enabling hi-bit/standard upsampling and compared it against both or either of these options off and what do you feel is the difference?

2. What does the Filter 1 to 4 actaully do other then the brief description of the manual? Anyone knows what it actually does? Apply certain filters?

My initial hearing test is that enabling the hi-bit/standard upsampling is that it adds some warmth to CD sound. However, it still sounds very lean in the mids as compared to my Denon 2900. Dont really know if I like the sound of the Pio 79 as of yet. Note that I noticed that if you enable hi-bit and standard upsampling at the same time, it seems to reduce the volume output. I had to increase my preamp by 6db to get it to equal the previous volume before enabling these features. Of course all comparisions were level matched and outputs pure analog with no other processing added. Not a blind test too.

Anyone else tried these options please do weigh in with your thoughts.

Oliver

Mine is in place and ready for action.

A few things:

I am having HDMI problems but I'm not sure why. When I hooked the 79AVi up to the 74TXVi, it was perfect. Everything was talking to everything. Then, I noticed something was a bit crooked on the shelf and I moved it a bit...everything went away. I couldn't get it to work so now I have the 79AVi running directly into my Hitachi's HDMI input and it's ok but I really want to figure out why there became a problem. I did a bit of checking before I made the current connection and the receiver was outputing it's setup menu over HDMI to the Hitachi as I was able to see the menu and make changes. Also, since the 79AVi is currently working while it is hooked directly to the Hitachi so both outputs seem to be working properly...the problem appears to be the connection between the 79AVi and the 74TXVi...could this be the repeater/HDCP issue others have been having?

Also, since I'm not nearly as technically minded as most of the members here, I have to say I've not seen the CUE problem I thought I would at this time but I do notice a few deinterlacing issues here and there. They aren't huge and at least for me, they aren't distracting enough to take me out of the picture but I have noticed one or two here and there.

The good point is the i-Link and the hi-res audio formats. Oh my...what a sweet sound this baby maks.

Mine is in place and ready for action.

A few things:

I am having HDMI problems but I'm not sure why. When I hooked the 79AVi up to the 74TXVi, it was perfect. Everything was talking to everything. Then, I noticed something was a bit crooked on the shelf and I moved it a bit...everything went away. I couldn't get it to work so now I have the 79AVi running directly into my Hitachi's HDMI input and it's ok but I really want to figure out why there became a problem.

Sounds like when you moved whatever you moved you disturbed the HDMI connection. I do not use HDMI but from what I have read many people have had problems with the HDMI connectors coming loose. I do not recall seeing that many HDMI issues between DVD players and HDMI capable receivers in regards to HDCP. Most of the problems are with cable and sat. boxes.

Bill

My 79 is hooked to a 74 with no issues through HDMI and I-LINK. Did you try a different HDMI port on the 74?

Sergio

Thanks guys for the input. Actually, it looks as though shifting the amp actually put quite a bit of pressure on the HDMI cable, moving it slightly to right. After I removed the pressure and re-ran all the lines, it never really worked again. I'm sure I'm just doing something wrong but for now, it's going to stay the way it is.

Just to confirm though...I just hooked the 74's output to my Hitachi's HDMI input and all I get is a blinking HDMI icon on the front of the receiver.

Like I said, I'm not done futzing with it yet but of now, I'm happy the way it is...the PQ is stunning and the few times I've seen the deinterlacing error is a very minor annoyance. My wife and kids didn't even notice even after I showed it to them several times.

I guess I'm in the camp now wondering if Pioneer will ever admit there is a problem with this unit and offer a fix. I know when my Panasonic A110 had a similar problem, Panasonic did fix it though it was quite a hassle to get it done. If not, I'm not a bit upset...the player is damn near perfect...especially for me!

the few times I've seen the deinterlacing error is a very minor annoyance. My wife and kids didn't even notice even after I showed it to them several times.



Can you explain what the de-interlacing error looks like?

I'm assuming it's the same thing Kris found on his Secrets Test but I've never heard of an example other than Gladiator.

Ok..I'll try but beware, I'm not an engineer...just a Home Theater Junkie.

What I'm seeing is small areas of horizontal bands like strips where part of the picture is there and parts of it aren't. It seems to happen on scene changes but again...it's not nearly as bad as the problem (which was very similar on my Panny A110) I was having with my A110. It's not the entire frame of the picture...just a small portion of it and to be honest, it doesn't happen a lot.

Now...if that's the deinterlacing problem then I don't know what it is but so far that's they ONLY thing I've seen that isn't perfect.

HDMI problems aside, I really love my new equipment.

Ok..I'll try but beware, I'm not an engineer...just a Home Theater Junkie.

What I'm seeing is small areas of horizontal bands like strips where part of the picture is there and parts of it aren't. It seems to happen on scene changes but again...it's not nearly as bad as the problem (which was very similar on my Panny A110) I was having with my A110. It's not the entire frame of the picture...just a small portion of it and to be honest, it doesn't happen a lot.

Now...if that's the deinterlacing problem then I don't know what it is but so far that's they ONLY thing I've seen that isn't perfect.

HDMI problems aside, I really love my new equipment.

Thanks Paul,
I'm like you: an "HTJ".
Your description is good.
How small are these areas and how long does the effect last?
Is it only on certain types of scenes (eg, dark or light or scenes with horizontal lines or vertical lines etc.)
Just trying to figure out under what circumstances this occurs.
Buying one of these is a lot of money (for me anyway).

Ok..I'll try but beware, I'm not an engineer...just a Home Theater Junkie.

What I'm seeing is small areas of horizontal bands like strips where part of the picture is there and parts of it aren't. It seems to happen on scene changes but again...it's not nearly as bad as the problem (which was very similar on my Panny A110) I was having with my A110. It's not the entire frame of the picture...just a small portion of it and to be honest, it doesn't happen a lot.

Now...if that's the deinterlacing problem then I don't know what it is but so far that's they ONLY thing I've seen that isn't perfect.

HDMI problems aside, I really love my new equipment.

Sounds like banding (if I have the term correct), if it is seen mostly on solid color backgrounds. I see it as well on certain DVDs but more so on animation. On say a blue sky scene where it has slight graduations in color from top to bottom, instead of the color fading dark to light you see each shade of blue.

Maybe not the same thing you are seeing but no one that I have read has seen the deinterlacing problem Kris Deering found other than the famous Gladiator scene or on calibration discs. Could you list which DVDs and location on the disc you see this on.

Bill

This looks more like a badly flagged disc than a real deinterlacing problem. Does it show it on still pictures too (set the still picture option in the initial setup menu to frame, not field? You could try different Progressive Motions settings (auto 1, auto 2 etc) and see what happens.

I just found out that the Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVi receiver can not decode HDCD. :(

Being that I plan on getting the 79AVi also... can it decode HDCD so I can send the signal up to the rcvr. either through analog cables or i-Link?

TIA

shane

I just found out that the Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVi receiver can not decode HDCD. :(

Being that I plan on getting the 79AVi also... can it decode HDCD so I can send the signal up to the rcvr. either through analog cables or i-Link?

TIA

shane

It's a no go. The 79 has no HDCD decoder .

Sergio

It's a no go. The 79 has no HDCD decoder .

Sergio

Thanks Sergio. Not what I wanted to hear... but I appreciate the reply.

shane

Ok..I'll try but beware, I'm not an engineer...just a Home Theater Junkie.

What I'm seeing is small areas of horizontal bands like strips where part of the picture is there and parts of it aren't. It seems to happen on scene changes but again...it's not nearly as bad as the problem (which was very similar on my Panny A110) I was having with my A110. It's not the entire frame of the picture...just a small portion of it and to be honest, it doesn't happen a lot.

Now...if that's the deinterlacing problem then I don't know what it is but so far that's they ONLY thing I've seen that isn't perfect.

HDMI problems aside, I really love my new equipment.

That could be combing. A good way to see if this is a deinterlacing bug is to go to secrets website which has a very good article with description and pictures on the various deinterlacing bugs that plague many players. It defintely does not sound like it is banding. And yes it happens once in a while and the frequency depends on how badly encoded the disc is and there are many out there. Even top titles.

As for better players out there specifically to avoid this problem (deinterlacing issues), there are the Denon 3910 which you can consider but it has MBE issue that plague some displays. I also find that DCDi processing tends to suck something out of the colours. I am sure you can find some stores that have these side by side to see which you prefer.

Oliver

3:2 pull down marked as fail but this seem to hit a '5' on one instance but have never managed to reproduce.


Yes this is reproduceable. When u run it from a cold start (i.e. power off), without activating any on-screen-display, it will pass. As soon as you activate the OSD (to change whatever), it fails. (This was discovered on the 59.)

Bad news for those of us who can't leave well alone when watching a movie!

John.

Well, I'm pretty sure it's not banding. I know what banding looks like...lines of color changes rather than a nice smoothly gradiation from one color to the next...and this is that.

What I'm seeing looks more like venetian blinds (best description I can think of) during a scene change. It's only a portion of the picture and not the entire frame. I watched "The Indredibles" expecting to see some of the errors since that's an entirely animated movie and didn't see a thing as far as I can remember.

I'm set to 12 bit component as well...haven't really experiemented with the other settings at this time so feel free to recommend.

I'm looking up the Secrets site for examples of Deinterlacing Error now.

But as I've said, this is a MINOR issue and I don't really notice it that much. I'm VERY happy with this DVD player and the audio is fantastic through i-Link.

Well, I'm pretty sure it's not banding. I know what banding looks like...lines of color changes rather than a nice smoothly gradiation from one color to the next...and this is that.

What I'm seeing looks more like venetian blinds (best description I can think of) during a scene change. It's only a portion of the picture and not the entire frame. I watched "The Indredibles" expecting to see some of the errors since that's an entirely animated movie and didn't see a thing as far as I can remember.

I'm set to 12 bit component as well...haven't really experiemented with the other settings at this time so feel free to recommend.

I'm looking up the Secrets site for examples of Deinterlacing Error now.

But as I've said, this is a MINOR issue and I don't really notice it that much. I'm VERY happy with this DVD player and the audio is fantastic through i-Link.
Paul,

you may be seeing the player fail to handle bad edit, which I beleive is one of the fail cases in the Secrets test. I'm pretty certain this is something I've seen occasionally. Note that its also possible that you're seeing QUE or ICP problems.

Note that best deinterlacer settings seem to be Auto2+Motion Slide at slow - 1 notch (or in fact anything other than full fast or slow).

Apparently the deinterlacer is also effected by the NR settings on the 59AVi, but I haven't had a chance to verify this on the 79AVi yet.

Regards,
John.

Thanks for the info John...I'm still experimenting with the player and so far the little problems I'm seeing don't bother me at all. It's a MUCH better machine than the cracker-jack box player it replaced.

Still a little confused by the HDMI thing but I'm reading, experimenting and learning.

I just bought a 79 to replace a 2910 I moved into a dedicated 2 channel system so I could play SACD. So far I believe the 79 is superior in both audio and video to the Denon. I'm running HDMI directly into a Sony 34XBR960 and digital audio into a Pio 74 receiver.

I have noticed one thing and that is what seems to be ghosting or motion drag. For instance I rented Marksman (probably not a good reference DVD, but sometimes you need a late night cheesy action movie), and in the first few minutes Wesley Snipes is running in the woods and he shows up as a light object against a very dark background. When he moves quickly I get the white "vapor trail" effect. I'm wondering if any has a suggestion for where to start in the video adjustments to fix the problem.

Incidentally, since I wasted a good portion of time wading through the whole middle section of this thread on the fatal flaws, I thought I'd weigh in. If I take my car out to a certain section of road with a long slight even grade, and hold it at exactly 37 MPH, the transmission will constantly up and downshift. It only does it under those exact circumstances, but I'm pretty sure the manufacturer won't do anything if I call to report this fatal flaw. I'll still keep the car and it really doesn't bother me that I know the car will do that since I have to try to make it do it under circumstances that happened once in two years of normal driving. For over 25 times the price of a 79 I can't believe I didn't get an absolutely flawless vehicle in every respect; too bad there wasn't a secret dateline special that could have averted such an egregious mistake on my part.

Incidentally, since I wasted a good portion of time wading through the whole middle section of this thread on the fatal flaws, I thought I'd weigh in. If I take my car out to a certain section of road with a long slight even grade, and hold it at exactly 37 MPH, the transmission will constantly up and downshift. It only does it under those exact circumstances, but I'm pretty sure the manufacturer won't do anything if I call to report this fatal flaw. I'll still keep the car and it really doesn't bother me that I know the car will do that since I have to try to make it do it under circumstances that happened once in two years of normal driving. For over 25 times the price of a 79 I can't believe I didn't get an absolutely flawless vehicle in every respect; too bad there wasn't a secret dateline special that could have averted such an egregious mistake on my part.


:) I like your analogy!

In my case, I bought the 79Avi partly due to the audio-video capabilities and partly because it looks and feels solidly built compared to the cheaper players or even comparably priced players. Its like buying a Rolex as opposed to buying a cheaper watch... often they have the same accuracy but you just feel you are getting a solid product with the former.

The 79Avi also complements my vintage Hifi gear (I am still using an 80's vintage Marantz Class A amp for my main speakers)... which is why I am not bothered nor do I obsess too much about minor imperfections in picture quality. All hardware have flaws... just try comparing distortion in the output of Tube amps vs solid state amps yet many swear that they like the sound of the tube better despite its higher measurable distortion on the output stage.

With regards to my 79Avi, I did notice some ringing initially but I compensated for that via the 79Avi's excellent settings option in combination with tweaking the sharpness on my HDTV.

Good one, Hammerli...

I also liken Secrets testing to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety that Dateline shows so much. They implemented offset crash results before it was envogue (now side impact is their new mission). The problem lies in the fact that at least auto manufacturers are changing their designs for better test results...sometimes it is like the DVD manufacturers limp along many generations with what I would deem major flaws in their operation. Alas, we have no Dateline on national TV to uncover the flaws.

I also liken Secrets testing to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety that Dateline shows so much. They implemented offset crash results before it was envogue (now side impact is their new mission). The problem lies in the fact that at least auto manufacturers are changing their designs for better test results...sometimes it is like the DVD manufacturers limp along many generations with what I would deem major flaws in their operation. Alas, we have no Dateline on national TV to uncover the flaws.

I've wondered about that same sort of thing with an ever increasing number of people making purchasing decisions based on internet "expert" reviews and user opinions on forums from random people with unknown personal criteria and likes/dislikes. I wonder if Pioneer set out with only the normally used gamut of test DVD's and designed a player to satisfy those criteria alone would it fare well in real world viewing situations? Or would the fact that a player was a "perfect test tube player" mean that anyone who suggested it was inferior on x or y movie would be shunned and pointed to the clearly superior test results. Sort of the inverse of what we had in this thread for a while.

HeHe, would guys like to be left alone for a bit :rolleyes:

I've had this unit for over 3 months. I have very happy with the sonic and visual performance. However, a few days ago we were watching 24 season 3 and I noticed that mostly on faces there was a kind of "waviness" or "pulsing." I watch though a Panny 900 PJ with a component connection. I had recently swithed the DVD player to 480i do do some evaluations. These artifacts were very annoying and the next day I switched back to 480p. The next day I didn't notice these issues. But After an hour or so I thought I could see it again. Could it be that the problem lies in the PJ? Or could it be that the way that series is filmed(jerky camera movements etc...) is the cause of it? It was almost like what I remember being on shrooms was like back in the day!!

Any suggestions or comments?

Karl

Sounds like detail pumping? i.e. as things move are you seeing the amount of detail fluctuate?

On the face of it I'd say that 480i was just showing issues with the AE900's deinterlacer, but if its still happening when you go back to 480p sounds odd.

Have you tried 720p via HDMI? Might improve things...

John.

I have noticed one thing and that is what seems to be ghosting or motion drag. For instance I rented Marksman (probably not a good reference DVD, but sometimes you need a late night cheesy action movie), and in the first few minutes Wesley Snipes is running in the woods and he shows up as a light object against a very dark background. When he moves quickly I get the white "vapor trail" effect. I'm wondering if any has a suggestion for where to start in the video adjustments to fix the problem.
Try reducing the Noise Reduction settings. If you are only seeing it in the light vs. dark sections, the YNR may be all you need to cut. I run with both the YNR and CNR all the way off, but have noticed on some noisy discs it makes the picture look better.

Just curious if anyone ever implemented Carl Sundbom's recommended (480i over HDMI) video settings for the 59-avi on their 79-avi? I know they are different players, but they are also very similar. He did a lot of work to get the 59-avi to behave like it should with respect to video levels. Would be nice if he had a 79-avi and could perform the same service for this player. Food for thought.

Mark

Hi

I am new to this forum and spent most of last night (and this morning) reading this thread from top to bottom. The reason being that I have just purchased a 989 (I live in the South West of the UK) and with this connected by HDMI to my new Pioneer 506XDE and set to Progressive I noticed quite a few artifacts that surprised me.

The disk I noticed the 'problems' on was the Underworld Special Edition (don't know if the 'Special Edition' matters or not) during the initial image moving to, and including, the animation on the Top Menu where you select the movie or extras. This is also the main movie disk (disk 1) as there are two disks.

Having initially played around with changing from interlaced to progressive settings the artifacts did not exist when set to interlaced. Having now read this thread I have changed the following settings:

Prog. Motion: A couple of clicks off the farthest left position
Pure Cinema: Auto2
HDMI Detail: Centre settings
IRE 7.5

I too found that the 'Detail' setting seemed to not change anything.

I left all other settings to their default settings and configured these changes using the 'Return of The Sith' Star Wars DVD by freezing on Obi/queen's face during the scene where Obi tells the Queen that Anakin has gone over to the Dark Side. I then re-tested using the Underworld disk and the artifacts are now gone!


On another point, I noticed that when using the HDMI connection the 506 does not automatically switch to the 989 source, this has to be done manually, unlike with a scart connected. I assume this is as expected? I guess if I start using the i.Link to connect up multi-channel SACD (currently connect 989 to 'Old' Pioneer A-400 amp and set 989 to 2-channel for SACD) this will do the 'switching' for me?

I also have a few questions please for anyone in 'the know':

1) What would be the best (within price reason) DTS surround combined amp/receiver for this set-up?

2) My 506XDE is currently still set to the default settings. Does anyone recommend anything different?

3) I have read that some panels upscale allowing the 989 to be set to interlaced. Does the 506XDE upscale?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

giomania,
Check the 59avi owners thread as there have been some late breaking insights re Carl's settings.

In brief, the 59avi has a *BUG* which prevents it from passing Blacker than Black or Peak White data (i.e. luminance data below 16 or above 235) when set to 480i resolution while using HDMI cabling and also using Pioneer's default settings for "HDMI Direct" display mode.

Carl's adjusted settings are a workaround for that BUG which forces the 59avi to pass the complete data range at the expense of doing some extra processing which introduces a few rounding errors. Carl's settings also result in the 59avi putting out higher Color saturation, so you also need to reduce the Color level on your display to compensate.

This bug does not exist on the 59avi when using HDMI to HDMI or HDMI to DVI cabling at either 480p, 720p, or 1080i resolutions, so Carl's settings are not needed for any of those.

If the 79avi ALREADY passes BTB and Peak White data properly at HDMI 480i using standard settings, then Carl's settings would make no sense to try there. If not, then it might be worth an experiment.
--Bob

giomania,
Check the 59avi owners thread as there have been some late breaking insights re Carl's settings.

In brief, the 59avi has a *BUG* which prevents it from passing Blacker than Black or Peak White data (i.e. luminance data below 16 or above 235) when set to 480i resolution while using HDMI cabling and also using Pioneer's default settings for "HDMI Direct" display mode.

Carl's adjusted settings are a workaround for that BUG which forces the 59avi to pass the complete data range at the expense of doing some extra processing which introduces a few rounding errors. Carl's settings also result in the 59avi putting out higher Color saturation, so you also need to reduce the Color level on your display to compensate.

This bug does not exist on the 59avi when using HDMI to HDMI or HDMI to DVI cabling at either 480p, 720p, or 1080i resolutions, so Carl's settings are not needed for any of those.

If the 79avi ALREADY passes BTB and Peak White data properly at HDMI 480i using standard settings, then Carl's settings would make no sense to try there. If not, then it might be worth an experiment.
--Bob

Thanks, Bob. I have been following the 59avi thread, as I have one of those players as well. Revelations in recent days have been very interesting!.

Mark

i know this question has probably already been answered but i have a samsung hd-tv i just bought a toshiba hd-a1 and it is using the hdmi input, xbox 360 and hd-dvr are using the component inputs, which only leaves the dvi input left. so i want to hook my 79avi up via the dvi input is there any problems using a dvi to hdmi cable or are there going to be relatioship problems betwen the 2 any answers will be appreciated you guys always have the right answers.

i know this question has probably already been answered but i have a samsung hd-tv i just bought a toshiba hd-a1 and it is using the hdmi input, xbox 360 and hd-dvr are using the component inputs, which only leaves the dvi input left. so i want to hook my 79avi up via the dvi input is there any problems using a dvi to hdmi cable or are there going to be relatioship problems betwen the 2 any answers will be appreciated you guys always have the right answers.You should have no issue aslong as the DVI input is HDCP compliant.

I just hooked up a 2 into 1 HDMI switcher from Monoprice with a 35foot HDMI cable from the same. I can see the DVD player menu but when I go to the disk menu I see nothing. Whats going on?

Hi

I am new to this forum and spent most of last night (and this morning) reading this thread from top to bottom. The reason being that I have just purchased a 989 (I live in the South West of the UK) and with this connected by HDMI to my new Pioneer 506XDE and set to Progressive I noticed quite a few artifacts that surprised me.

The disk I noticed the 'problems' on was the Underworld Special Edition (don't know if the 'Special Edition' matters or not) during the initial image moving to, and including, the animation on the Top Menu where you select the movie or extras. This is also the main movie disk (disk 1) as there are two disks.

Having initially played around with changing from interlaced to progressive settings the artifacts did not exist when set to interlaced. Having now read this thread I have changed the following settings:

Prog. Motion: A couple of clicks off the farthest left position
Pure Cinema: Auto2
HDMI Detail: Centre settings
IRE 7.5

I too found that the 'Detail' setting seemed to not change anything.

I left all other settings to their default settings and configured these changes using the 'Return of The Sith' Star Wars DVD by freezing on Obi/queen's face during the scene where Obi tells the Queen that Anakin has gone over to the Dark Side. I then re-tested using the Underworld disk and the artifacts are now gone!


On another point, I noticed that when using the HDMI connection the 506 does not automatically switch to the 989 source, this has to be done manually, unlike with a scart connected. I assume this is as expected? I guess if I start using the i.Link to connect up multi-channel SACD (currently connect 989 to 'Old' Pioneer A-400 amp and set 989 to 2-channel for SACD) this will do the 'switching' for me?

I also have a few questions please for anyone in 'the know':

1) What would be the best (within price reason) DTS surround combined amp/receiver for this set-up?

2) My 506XDE is currently still set to the default settings. Does anyone recommend anything different?

3) I have read that some panels upscale allowing the 989 to be set to interlaced. Does the 506XDE upscale?

Thanks for any help you can give me.


Interesting settings; I'll have to try when I get my 79. One good receiver for this player would be the Pioneer VSX-74TXVi as it has iLink inputs (not sure what the UK equivalent model # is). They should pair well together.

Interesting settings; I'll have to try when I get my 79. One good receiver for this player would be the Pioneer VSX-74TXVi as it has iLink inputs (not sure what the UK equivalent model # is). They should pair well together.

Thanks, will take a look at that receiver.

On another point, I am currently looking at the following power surge protector/filter etc system:

ISOTEK GII Gemini 6-way coupled with a Copper-Line Power Cable to the AC outlet.

Is this a good set-up or could I do better for the money (around £409 inclusive)? Also is the Copper-Line cable over speced for the GII?

Thanks.

I have a question as to the best way to set the channel levels for the 5.1 analog outputs. I have been using the i-link output to a 74txvi but I am now using a Boston Acoustics AVP7 pre-pro. Is it best to use the test tones in the 79avi or use the DVE calibration disc? I used the test tones today with a SPL meter but will try the DVE disc if it will be more accurate.

I found that SACDs and DVD-As sound great thru the 5.1 inputs of the AVP7 (which is the only way). But I found I liked the SQ of two channel CDs better thru the optical input over the 5.1 input (both in stereo). Does anyone else find this to be the same?

Thanks for any advice, Bill

Yes, the 79AVi does come with an iLink cable. I also have a 56TXi and a 79AVi. You are in for a treat because these two units have a real synergy.

Woohoo - finally got my 79 yesterday. Can't wait to use it. It really is heavy! I plan to use the supplied iLink cable with my 74 receiver unless someone convinces me that I need a bigger more expensive cable.

Any problems with a January build date that anyone has noticed?

Now to save money for the plasma...... :)

I finally bought this unit. Will pick it up tomorrow night... or if traffic is bad... Saturday. I can't wait to hear it. I can't wait to see it either, but my Plasma sux, so truly *seeing* it will have to wait a while. :(

I have some real nice Belden 6-ch cables from Blue Jeans Cables and this should be real nice through the Denon and Ascends. :D :D

cheers

shane

Hi everyone,

So I've been reading through this thread as much as I can and I am stuck looking at the pio 59avi, 79avi and marantz 7600.

My first concern is audio, and I have seen varying comments between the 79 and 7600 as to which is better. I will be running it 6-ch analog for sacd/dvd-a for the time being as I do not have i-link. It will be running into a Marantz 7500 receiver. Currently I am using a Pio 563A, so I know that any of these players should be a dramatic upgrade on all accounts.

Additionally, video is not an immediate concern as I will not have an HD display. However, I do plan on keeping this player for awhile, and it will eventually get paired with an HD display. I can not imagine ending up using an external scaler etc so I don't think the 480i issue will affect me. I do not understand the 8-bit vs 10-bit over HDMI though...can someone explain this to me beyond the 10 is better than 8 argument ;-) Also, do you know what the 7600 outputs? 10 or 8? Is it safe to assume that future displays will be supporting 10-bit?

The 59avi is the cheapest, and I can find the 7600 for $100 more, and the 79avi for 150-200 more than the 59. Do the monetary jumps coincide with quality and performance?

Thanks!

re 10bit video versus 8bit video: 10bit video has 30bits of color range per pixel (10bits per color component), 8bit has 24bits per pixel. The biggest advantage of more colors is smoother transitions between colors on a display - less "banding" or "false contouring".

larry

I was looking into this a while back (10bit vs 8bit) and came accross a picture that showed the difference. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it though. I will keep searching and post a link if I find it.

Anyways, here is one explanation I found:

"While both 8- and 10-bit uncompressed video are capable of providing excellent quality broadcast video, 10-bit represents a significantly higher quality and is preferable in many situations.

Because 10-bit video has four times the numerical precision when compared to 8- bit, it has a signal-to-noise ratio 12 db higher than 8-bit video. Visually, in 8-bit video compared to 10-bit video, you will notice a substantial difference. In 8-bit video there will be contour lines or striations visible, particularly noticeable in scenes having soft gradients like a ramp or sunset. For example, if a sky region is mostly the same color but varies by only a few digital numbers from one side of the picture to another, you may see contour lines where the signal passes from one digital value to the next higher value.

Since each numerical value in a 10-bit system is only one fourth as large as an 8-bit system's, these contours become invisible and the sky varies smoothly. 10-bit video is often used when the source and output video (or master) is also 10- bit. Even if the input and/or output video is 8-bit, a 10-bit project will still maintain a higher quality when there is a significant amount of effects rendering involved."

Ok, I found the link I was referring to. It is on Gennum's website:

http://www.gennum.com/ip/vxp_technology.html#realityexpansion

In case it doesn't take you directly to the picture, if you scroll down to the "RealityExpansion" section, the picture shows banding that happens with 8bit. I have to say that as I've done more and more research, I notice more and more issues with my setup. That's why I'm looking to upgrade my stuff. But that might open up another can of whoop ass with all the HDMI unknowns.

I should have never upgraded from my 27" analog tv. I was in a happier place back then. :)

Great, you typed in more than I was willing too. The ony thing I was going to mention is that I don't how or where the 12db increase in S/N comes into play with digital video. It may come into play for DACs and analog video. IMO going from 8bit to 10bit video is big a win and worth trading off for some little bugs here and there that certain components or players posess.
My next video upgrade will definitely be 10bit capable.

larry

Hi all.
Picked-up my new 79avi last night and connected it to my 3805 Denon via Digital Coax and 6 ch Analog.

I did a fair amount of testing and have some questions.
All playback was done in 'Direct' mode with no EQ and no tone adjustments.

Digital v. Analog seemed very similar (in other words the DAC's of both units seem to be about the same) except for two main things.

1) Overall volume of the analog output is about 8db quieter.
2) Much more troubling is that there was a HUGE difference in bass or LFE. The analog sub feed lacked impact or volume.

#1 can be compensated for in either the player or the receiver.

#2 does not seem to be correctable. There is signal coming through the Sub. It is present, it is audible, but it is weak. What might I be doing wrong... or what is the issue with this unit - receiver combo?

As a strange side note. I was checking through the settings (on the 79avi) and having set the speakers to 'variable' I went to check the test tones. They played automatically through all the speakers except the sub. I checked and made the sub was turned on and went back to check the test tones. No tones. They stopped functioning alltogether. Tried again, and again. No tones. Whazzup with that?

Ok, there it is... any suggestions?

Thanks

shane

I believe in the manual for 79avi it says the sub will not output using the test tones, however I'm at work so don't have the manual in front of me. I decided to use the varible settings which work quite well with six channel analogs out. My old Marantz SR96 does not have any digital inputs only six channel. Waiting to upgrade when recievers have the latest HDMI inputs & outputs.

Digital v. Analog seemed very similar (in other words the DAC's of both units seem to be about the same) except for two main things.

1) Overall volume of the analog output is about 8db quieter.
2) Much more troubling is that there was a HUGE difference in bass or LFE. The analog sub feed lacked impact or volume.

#1 can be compensated for in either the player or the receiver.

#2 does not seem to be correctable. There is signal coming through the Sub. It is present, it is audible, but it is weak. What might I be doing wrong... or what is the issue with this unit - receiver combo?

As a strange side note. I was checking through the settings (on the 79avi) and having set the speakers to 'variable' I went to check the test tones. They played automatically through all the speakers except the sub. I checked and made the sub was turned on and went back to check the test tones. No tones. They stopped functioning alltogether. Tried again, and again. No tones. Whazzup with that?

Ok, there it is... any suggestions?

Thanks

shane

I found that the analog variable volume was lower as well. In the manual if I recall says that the fixed volume is 6db louder. I went with the fixed setting and am using the settings in the BA AVP7. I found the fixed setting to be the way to go. Output of my sub is fine as well with the fixed setting.

Bill

Thanks for the information! It looks like the 7600 passes 10-bit data....however it does not appear that it outputs 480i through the hdmi output. Is this really that important if I'm not using an external scalar?

This being the case....I'm feeling like I'm between the 7600 and the 79avi....

7600 will only do 10-bit video when you select 4:2:2 at the HDMI out. Both 59 n 79 can send out 480i signal thru HDMI, n not on 7600.

What is the difference between 4:2:2 and 10 bit? or are they the same?

I believe in the manual for 79avi it says the sub will not output using the test tones, however I'm at work so don't have the manual in front of me. I decided to use the varible settings which work quite well with six channel analogs out. My old Marantz SR96 does not have any digital inputs only six channel. Waiting to upgrade when recievers have the latest HDMI inputs & outputs.

Well thanks.
True enough, variable is much quieter than fixed.
Odd though, that the sub in the variable mode has the option to produce a test tone... but now none of them will. Hmm. I have not re-checked to see if a tone can be produced with the sub off.

shane

What is the difference between 4:2:2 and 10 bit? or are they the same?YCbCr 4:2:2 via HDMI can be 8, 10, or 12bit video. YCbCr is the color format, the "bit" is the size of each component, and the 4:2:2 is the ratio of luma to the color (chroma) difference components. For 4:2:2 there are 4 luma (Y) samples for every 2 blue (Cb) and 2 red (Cr). Or 2 luma for every blue and red. DVDs are encoded in YCbCr 4:2:0. For evey 4 luma samples there's 2 blue and 1 red.

larry

Thanks PooperScooper! That helped a lot! So if it is 4:2:2, should dvds look better? Does this mean the set would then need to be recalibrated? Thanks!

Thanks PooperScooper! That helped a lot! So if it is 4:2:2, should dvds look better? Does this mean the set would then need to be recalibrated? Thanks! Only if using 10bit YCbCr 4:2:2 to a display capable of displaying 10bit color. YCbCr 4:4:4 and RGB 4:4:4 are 8bit. Also, anytime you switch input video type (color type, "size" or resolution) it is a good idea to double check the calibration. Can't hurt and only takes a few minutes to check.

larry

Great! Thanks!

I've noticed some odd combing on the menu of the DVD "Swingers" (hilarious btw). It appears on a star that rotates around the bottom portion of the screen in a circular-ish pattern - while it moves it goes from a stable star, to one with nasty combing. A friend of mine noticed it, and frankly, I'm curious if it's another 79avi processing quirk. Has anyone else seen that?

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet...
In regards to the whole Gladiator thing I noticed a glitch of sorts on my QUEEN "We Will Rock You" DVD. When the title appears there's all this crazy blocky noise in it. I made the "Gladiator" adjustment in the menu and while it helped the problem it did not completely get rid of it. This is only a problem in the title, the rest of the disc looks great.

Also, has anyone else noticed that this player does not usually jump back a few seconds when restarting from STOP (occasionally and randomly it does). Is this a known bug? All my previous players have always jumped back a few seconds when restarting.

I'm using HDMI 1080i.

Cheers,
Dave

Hi.
I just recently purchased this unit and I was wondering where I can find listings of 'typical' settings for HDMI and Component.

I remember seeing some earlier in the thread, but if I can be pointed towards specific posts, or if good folk can re-post their settings it would be appreciated. :)

I am about to receive a Panny 50" plasma and am not sure whether I'll use HDMI or component. So listing the settings for both will help.

Thanks!

shane

Hi

I managed to perform a fairly quick comparison of the 989 to the 9600. I posted the information in the Marantz 9600 thread off Standard Def players:

Comparison of Pioneer 989 with Marantz 9600 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=568620&page=8&pp=30)


The conclusion of the test was that the picture quality was comparable but the colours from the 9600 seemed more cinematic and the 9600 did not have the 'pure cinema' defect on Auto1 'Direct' (Example: combing on main menu with Underworld DVD on 989 when set to progressive on Auto1).

However I did end up upgrading to the 9600 from the 989.

Hi all,

Sorry to be a pain, but searching this massive thread I seem to find conflicting info on these two items. I recently bought a 79avi as a transport (tired of waiting for Oppo 970H) to run thru my DVDO VP30 w/ ABT102 card. Then run the output of the scaler to the C3X Lite projector displayed on a 127" X 54" CH Stewart screen.

My primary aim is for 480i out to the VP30 for best scaling. I have seen conflicting reports on the "best" settings for Prog. Motion and Auto 1/2/Off in the Pioneer 79avi to achieve best quality (Gladiator glitch, artifacts, etc). Is there a consensus, or even some strong opinions on these settings in general? I've read Prog. Motion at full slow and then again at a step or two from full fast. My little DVD collection is small and comparisons are tough as I learn all the new stuff (settings on the C3X and Denon AVR for example). So, I'm looking for the (initial) easy way out to get the DVD settings sorted out and then deal with the rest. There are many settings in there (HDMI specific ones especially) and I am trying to obtain an overall good image which I can then tweak. Thanks for any help.

Hey Flint...
That's what I asked for as well.

Sure would be nice if a couple of these 79avi experts replied with some basic settings. ;)

C'mon folks throw out some starter settings for us noobies.

Thanks!

shane

Hi all,

Sorry to be a pain, but searching this massive thread I seem to find conflicting info on these two items. I recently bought a 79avi as a transport (tired of waiting for Oppo 970H) to run thru my DVDO VP30 w/ ABT102 card. Then run the output of the scaler to the C3X Lite projector displayed on a 127" X 54" CH Stewart screen.

My primary aim is for 480i out to the VP30 for best scaling. I have seen conflicting reports on the "best" settings for Prog. Motion and Auto 1/2/Off in the Pioneer 79avi to achieve best quality (Gladiator glitch, artifacts, etc). Is there a consensus, or even some strong opinions on these settings in general? I've read Prog. Motion at full slow and then again at a step or two from full fast. My little DVD collection is small and comparisons are tough as I learn all the new stuff (settings on the C3X and Denon AVR for example). So, I'm looking for the (initial) easy way out to get the DVD settings sorted out and then deal with the rest. There are many settings in there (HDMI specific ones especially) and I am trying to obtain an overall good image which I can then tweak. Thanks for any help.

Unforunately there seemed to be compromises no matter where you put the Prog. Motion slider. I'd say leave it in the middle and only mess with it if you notice problems. I've left mine there and it's good enough for gov't work.

Btw, Auto 2 measured the best on secrets ... I think.

Hey Flint...
That's what I asked for as well.

Sure would be nice if a couple of these 79avi experts replied with some basic settings. ;)

C'mon folks throw out some starter settings for us noobies.

Thanks!

shane

Hmm...I'd leave the NR off for a pure picture, or maybe one or two clicks on, but probably no more else you may see smearing or ghosting.

I think the sharpness settings stay in the middle, and detail is all the way off. IIRC. I'll have to go check.

There are different ideas on how to set the IRE and a few other settings. the 59avi thread might be interesting reading (look for stuff from Carl S. I think) reading those settings. We're still not sure if those settings translate correctly, but....yeah....

Ok... another question.

I am getting a Panny 50" 8UK with one HDMI blade.
I am interested in the Gefen EXT-HDMI-341 3x1 Switcher and wonder if there are any issues with this unit... especially with the Pio Elite 79avi?

HDMI equipment thus far:
Pioneer Elite DV-79avi
Comcast Moto 6412 PIII HD Cable STB

Eventually... some type of HD-DVD (or BD).

Any lower-cost alternatives to the Gefen?

TIA!

shane

If you do... or have something similar (7UY)... what are you feeding it?

1) 480p over HDMI or component?
2) 720p or 1080i over HDMI?

If so, why?
Forgive me if this has been asked before, and please direct me to that post.

Thanks

shane

I bought this DVD player for a seldom used bedroom arrangement, in other words, a secondary set up. My primary DVD player was an Onkyo SP1000 which I sold in favor of an Arcam DV27 (used). When I received the Arcam, it was damaged so I sent it in for service and moved the Pioneer to my main room. This is the first chance I have had to really push the Pioneer, our family has alot of different needs for a DVD player. My wife wants something that will play home made discs and be easy to operate, I like something that sounds good for CD play and has a more discriminatory video performance. I have owned a couple dozen moderate to high end DVD players and have certain standards for a main system vs. a secondary arrangement. Regardless of the ability of a DVD players ability to ace the Secrets criteria, my everyday home use for a DVD player is a little tougher in respect to a players' ability to sound good, play everything you throw at it and have useful features that make sense. Unfortunately, Denon has fallen short in these areas for me, Pioneer has been middle of the road and Arcam has been really good. The Pioneer lacks the ability to remember where you left off after you eject a disc, something the cheapest DVD players are able to do, it has no zoom feature and it sounds lousy as a dedicated CD player. The build is outstanding, the video under normal viewing circumstances is solid. Overall, I am glad I have it for a second DVD player but wouldn't be happy with it as a primary DVD player, I wish it sounded better and had a few more useful features, the picture is nice but it doesn't represent hundreds of dollars more of an improvement over a cheaper DVD player which makes it a suspect value unless you are after the build quality.

soldonandy,

When you say it's lousy as CD player are you refering to redbook playback or is DVD-A and SACD included in that statement?
This player is on my list, along with Denon and maybe Marantz and Arcam (if I can afford them).

I'm not concerned about CD playback, I have an Arcam for that. My needs are for Hi-Rez and video.

Thanks

soldonandy,

I find the 79avi CD performance to be quite good, but I would think the Arcam would be better. As far as DVD players having a memory when a disc is ejected which players have this feature? I have owned several decent DVD players and none have had this feature. It would be a great option to have, how many discs can a player with this feature memorize?

Bill

Hi Bill,

I have a Pio 563a that has the memory feature you describe. I believe it stores up to 20 discs.

soldonandy,

When you say it's lousy as CD player are you refering to redbook playback or is DVD-A and SACD included in that statement?
This player is on my list, along with Denon and maybe Marantz and Arcam (if I can afford them).

I'm not concerned about CD playback, I have an Arcam for that. My needs are for Hi-Rez and video.

Thanks

No, just redbook and maybe "lousy" is harsh, I may be a little spoiled with Arcam and would assume the 79 is competitve for standard CD play compared to other DVD players.

soldonandy,

I find the 79avi CD performance to be quite good, but I would think the Arcam would be better. As far as DVD players having a memory when a disc is ejected which players have this feature? I have owned several decent DVD players and none have had this feature. It would be a great option to have, how many discs can a player with this feature memorize?

Bill

Bill,

I have had too several pricey players that wouldn't memorize it, particularly the Denon 2900, 3800 and Pioneer 47ai. Sony will allow you to memorize 15 discs, Onkyo SP1000 5, my new Pioneer 490 5, etc. This feature is a deal breaker for a main room for me because I often can't get through a movie in one sitting.

Andy

Bill,

I have had too several pricey players that wouldn't memorize it, particularly the Denon 2900, 3800 and Pioneer 47ai. Sony will allow you to memorize 15 discs, Onkyo SP1000 5, my new Pioneer 490 5, etc. This feature is a deal breaker for a main room for me because I often can't get through a movie in one sitting.

Andy

To bad the 79avi does not have this feature. I have never had it so do not miss it, if I eject a disc before I finish it I try to remember to write down the time.

Bill

Does anyone else see this issue?

Slow-forward is sharp, but slow-still-reverse or slow-reverse at any speed is very blurry. Very blurry and is un-usable. Once I press forward it's sharp again. True with reverse when using the jog function. :(

If others are not having this issue, it's just my unit, and I'll need to get it replaced.

Also... FF seems a bit jerky. Anyone notice that too?

shane

I just received my DV-79avi last night and spent most of the evening checking it out on DVDs and a couple SACD/DVDA discs. The initial set up was quick and painless. The i-link connection to my Pioneer VSX-59txi receiver is fantastic! Excellent SQ! The PQ on 480p through component is definitely the best I have seen on my older Mits RP CRT TV. I am really looking forward to more time with this player. I'll be studying the owner's manual while at work this afternoon and stopping by BB on the way home for a few more hi-rez discs. I guess I will have to re-read this thread now and write down the various settings posted by other owners. Cheers!

I too just received the 79AVI and noticed that with iLink, whenever I stop or change the track to any dvd, cd or sacd, the display on my 74txvi goes back to Stereo for a second and then reverts back to the correct encoded stream coming across the iLink. I just find this annoying.

So far, redbook does not appear to be as bright as other dvd players and the sacd is slightly better than my Sony SACD player. Upconversion to 720p does lag behind my Oppo in terms of imaging and panning but then I bought this for a universal solution where my family can easily get everything up an running without wondering which dvd player to use :)

Not sure why Pioneer bothered with the detachable power cord since its missing the 3rd prong.

I wish they had supplied a DVI cable, but then they probably would have "upped" the price. Got a good deal from one of the advertisers here.

Does anybody know if the onboard DAC is better than the DACS found in the 74txvi ?

Thx

I do belive that the DAC`s are the same as.
Display switching = normal.
When you stop there is no signal being sent , so it goes to stereo or analog.

Someone deleted another post ! Not mine but the one that brought me here !!
Thats A-OK , I hope I have helped , myself , I want to see what the VSX-84TXSi is like.
Have fun :)
Gary

hehe, yeah I got deleted. Forgot I wasn't supposed to post that there. oopsy.

Nothing really to add here except that I picked up a DV-989 (as the 79avi is known in Australia) over the weekend to join the club. Now I have 60-odd pages in this thread to trawl through looking for tips and tweaks that actually mean something to me now!

Hopefully Kris still monitors this Thread...

Kris , I'm wondering if you've had any success with Pioneer regarding the issues you found during your Benchmark evaluations ? It would be real interesting to hear how you made out or if any effort is being made by Pioneer in response to your testing and findings .

Keep us informed if you can ,

Scott....................... :)

FYI !!
A "Pioneer - Elite " first ! ( i think )
Firmware for the `79 is upgraded via CD , down side is you need a special remote.
Kris , if your still checking this thread , please confirm this.
Not that there is an update yet ( not likey , unless a ton of people complain about something).
IE) "Monsters Inc." , "Stargate" needed the chip upgrade for the DV-09.
I`m sure there were other dvd`s that didn`t work right with the `09 , but those are the ones that I was affected by.
Gary

FYI !!
A "Pioneer - Elite " first ! ( i think )
Firmware for the `79 is upgraded via CD , down side is you need a special remote.
Kris , if your still checking this thread , please confirm this.
Not that there is an update yet ( not likey , unless a ton of people complain about something).
IE) "Monsters Inc." , "Stargate" needed the chip upgrade for the DV-09.
I`m sure there were other dvd`s that didn`t work right with the `09 , but those are the ones that I was affected by.
Gary

Gary.

What problems did you encounter with the DV-09? Is the DV-09 a version of the 79avi (959)? I have the Monster DVD and do not recall any issues when watching the disc.

Bill

Hi Bill,
The DV-09 was Pioneer`s first "Elite" player , it came out in `98.
The problem with "Monsters Inc." was at the layer change the dvd froze.
Also with "Stargate Sp Ed " I could not see any of the menus.
I called Pioneer about that and they said there was a firmware upgrade but it was on a chip , that needed to be changed.
So I contacted my tech and ordered the chip right from Pioneer , and after all was well !! :)
However , on there new `79 , the software is upgradeable by a CD that you get from Pioneer ( can`t download ) and IF there is ever an update it would require a special remote and that software CD to upgrade the flash rom in the `79.
I really don`t think that there will ever be an upgrade for the `79 , the DV-09 was around for several years before it was replaced.
Now it seems they replace there "Elite" stuff about once a year.
With HD & BluRay , it`s unlikely that an update will ever be made for the `79.
Atleast it`s easy if they do , but you still can`t do it yourself.
(unless you buy the service remote, CD, and service manual )
Take care,
Gary ;)

Does anyone have their 79avi paired with one of the Panasonic ED TV's? I just got the TH-42PD60U plasma set (which I am very pleased with) and curious what others may be using for settings on the 79. I find configuring harder than my previous TV- Sony KD-34XS955 CRT.
Thanks!

I really don`t think that there will ever be an upgrade for the `79 ...

I'd be surprised if there weren't.

There have been at least 3 firmware upgrades to the 59AVi. And by one count, as many as 5.

That brings up a question: I've never seen anyone mention the firmware level of a 79AVi. Has anyone ever followed the instructions for the 59AVi to see if they could see that info for the 79AVi? (In the first post of the big long 59AVi thread I think.)

I personally still hope that Pioneer would address the video differences between the two machines, and if we knew that the firmware has changed between early units and later units, that would give me (at least) hope.

Does anyone have their 79avi paired with one of the Panasonic ED TV's? I just got the TH-42PD60U plasma set (which I am very pleased with) and curious what others may be using for settings on the 79. I find configuring harder than my previous TV- Sony KD-34XS955 CRT.
Thanks!

I have the 79avi with the Panasonic TH-42PWD6. I am using the component connection directly from the 79avi to the Panasonic. Do you have a calibration disc? I have the DVE disc and it is very helpful with explanations of each setting and on how to set them. I just used the basic calibration as the advanced settings are a little over my head (well really WAY over my head):).

My settings might differ from your plasma as I think your set is a consumer model and mine is a commercial model.

Picture Menu: Standard
Picture: +1
Brightness: -2
Color: -1
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 2
Color Temp.: Warm
Gamma: 2.2

Bill

I'd be surprised if there weren't.

There have been at least 3 firmware upgrades to the 59AVi. And by one count, as many as 5.

That brings up a question: I've never seen anyone mention the firmware level of a 79AVi. Has anyone ever followed the instructions for the 59AVi to see if they could see that info for the 79AVi? (In the first post of the big long 59AVi thread I think.)

I personally still hope that Pioneer would address the video differences between the two machines, and if we knew that the firmware has changed between early units and later units, that would give me (at least) hope.

I too would be intested in the various firmware revs that are out there now . Didn't the 59AVi upgrades come unannounced ? I don't remember seeing anything on the Pioneer site but I could have missed them . It might be just like Pioneer to fix the problem , update current models coming off the production line and then wait for any units in for Service to be upgraded as needed .

I'm keeping my fingers crossed . :D

Scott..............

In Initial Settings->Options, while at this menu press DISPLAY in the remote, at the bottom of the screen you can see the firmware version.

I'd be curious if someone with an older machine, and then someone with a newer machine could try this and see if it works, and what the revs are.

I have the 79avi with the Panasonic TH-42PWD6. I am using the component connection directly from the 79avi to the Panasonic. Do you have a calibration disc? I have the DVE disc and it is very helpful with explanations of each setting and on how to set them. I just used the basic calibration as the advanced settings are a little over my head (well really WAY over my head):).

My settings might differ from your plasma as I think your set is a consumer model and mine is a commercial model.

Picture Menu: Standard
Picture: +1
Brightness: -2
Color: -1
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 2
Color Temp.: Warm
Gamma: 2.2




Bill


Thanks Bill, I need all the help I can get! With a 19 mo. old and two more on the way it's challenging to find the time for this stuff, but when I do have it I still manage to get neurotic. With that said, I think it may be time to purchase a calibration disk like you suggested. Do you think the DVE disk is the best under $100.00 solution?
Thanks,
Jason

I'd be curious if someone with an older machine, and then someone with a newer machine could try this and see if it works, and what the revs are.

Kevin,

I just checked mine, which I would say is an older machine. I bought it on 12-24-05 at MHT. The firmware is Region: 1/Ver:1.026(16)/AV1:2.0/2.8, I am interested as well if the firmware is different in more recent units.

Bill

Thanks Bill, I need all the help I can get! With a 19 mo. old and two more on the way it's challenging to find the time for this stuff, but when I do have it I still manage to get neurotic. With that said, I think it may be time to purchase a calibration disk like you suggested. Do you think the DVE disk is the best under $100.00 solution?
Thanks,
Jason

Jason,

Two more on the way, you better get it dialed in now :)! I see DVE and Avia the most mentioned calibration discs here on the forum. So I guess either one would be good. I forget what company I bought the DVE disc from but I dealt with the owner and he was very helpful. And good luck with the new additions to your family.

Bill

Kind of a Newbie question here. I have a DV-79AVi and a Yamaha 2500. I just started playing around with SACD and DVD-Audio's. I bought a couple of DVD-Audio disks, and discovered that if I place the disc in the player, and press the PLAY button, nothing happens. I have to turn on my plasma, and use the arrow buttons on the remote control to navigate through some menu's of the disk until I get to somewhere that lets me play.

Is there an easier way that I can just get the darn disc to play?

Kevin,

I just checked mine, which I would say is an older machine. I bought it on 12-24-05 at MHT. The firmware is Region: 1/Ver:1.026(16)/AV1:2.0/2.8, I am interested as well if the firmware is different in more recent units.

Bill

I bought mine 4/28/2006. My dealer ordered it for me. Its only 3 months old.

I have the exact same version as Bill:

Region 1 / Ver: 1.026(16) / AV1: 2.0/2.8.

Anyone with one from earlier, like Jan. '05?

-tom

I bought mine 4/28/2006. My dealer ordered it for me. Its only 3 months old.

I have the exact same version as Bill:

Region 1 / Ver: 1.026(16) / AV1: 2.0/2.8.

Anyone with one from earlier, like Jan. '05?

-tom

Tom,

The 79avi came out around 11-05, so unless someone has a more recent unit that has a different firmware then they probably all have the same firmware.

Bill

Thanks guys. Do they still put the date of manufacture on the back? (My 59AVi has it.) That's a better indicator of how old a Pio is vs when you bought it.

Thanks guys. Do they still put the date of manufacture on the back? (My 59AVi has it.) That's a better indicator of how old a Pio is vs when you bought it.

Yes. Mine says "February 2006".

-tom

Mine says January 06. Since we are in the midst of trying to get our new home ready, and have been without electricity, I haven't even fired it up yet. But I'll let you know the firmware as soon as I do. I'm curious to see if they will allow for updates without sending the unit in for service.

OK, so looks like we'd need someone with a player after Feb '06 to see if there's any new firmware out there.

Here is a link to Ultimate A/V review of the 79avi: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/dvdplayers/706pioneerdv79avi/

Just checking in to make sure I didn't miss a feature. Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no way to convert SACD to PCM and send it out on HDMI on the 79AVi right? I'm kind of jealous that the $150 Oppo 970 can do this. Does the Pioneer Bass Management and Time Alignment convert the SACD DSD stream to PCM? I'd really like to finally get rid of all my analog connections.

Just checking in to make sure I didn't miss a feature. Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no way to convert SACD to PCM and send it out on HDMI on the 79AVi right? I'm kind of jealous that the $150 Oppo 970 can do this. Does the Pioneer Bass Management and Time Alignment convert the SACD DSD stream to PCM? I'd really like to finally get rid of all my analog connections.
Use iLink................

dc

Here is a link to Ultimate A/V review of the 79avi: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/dvdplayers/706pioneerdv79avi/

Thanks for the link - I had missed that review.

Just checking in to make sure I didn't miss a feature. Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no way to convert SACD to PCM and send it out on HDMI on the 79AVi right? I'm kind of jealous that the $150 Oppo 970 can do this. Does the Pioneer Bass Management and Time Alignment convert the SACD DSD stream to PCM? I'd really like to finally get rid of all my analog connections.

Is the 79AVi different than the 59AVi? The 59AVi keeps SACD in DSD format, and can do BM but not TA because of that. (You get TA and BM for DVD-A.)

If you really want BM and TA for SACD, i.Link is a solution, or some of the Denons, which also do a PCM conversion inside. :)

Kevin - I did a little more research, I had forgotten that the 79AVi doesn't convert DSD to LPCM. Problem is there are no decent Pre/Pros with iLink.

Anyone heard anything about the PE DV-46AV at $299 and supposively shipping now?

The Integra RDC-7.1 has i.Link. Costs a little bit of coin though. ;)

What you might try, and I did a lot of listening with and w/o BM, is just try all Large. Depending on your speaker setup, might be the best way. There isn't a lot of musical content below 40 Hz, and it removes any problems that the player's BM creates. (For example, some players have different crossovers and slopes between DVD-A and SACD. And some players have the "10 dB LFE" problem too. I never thought that Pio's did, but some people said the 578, the 45a, and some others did have the problem.) And one thing I found, is that the best setup for my speakers using a digital input to my pre/pro resulted in a different phase relationship between the mains and sub vs using the analog outs from the player with BM. Again, because the freq and slopes from the player are different than from the pre/pro.

I've heard nothing but horror stories about the Integra. I bit the bullet and got an Anthem D2, does everything digitally but SACD. I've been experimenting with and without the Anthem DSP on the analog inputs. It sounds pretty good even with the extra ADC. Sure would be nice to get rid of those six analog cables though. I'm hoping that new DV-46AV can do 480i over HDMI and convert DSD to PCM it would make a great little digital transport if it did, but I'm not going to hold by breath.

Does the 79 have a fixed xover or selectable for the bm?

[QUOTE=obie_fl]I've heard nothing but horror stories about the Integra ...... /QUOTE]

obie_fl,

FYI, I purchased a new Integra Research RDC 7.1, and just recently finished installing it. So far, it is working perfectly.

Thanks
Bruce

Does the 79 have a fixed xover or selectable for the bm?

You can adjust the speaker sizes, distances, and channel levels, including the sub, but I don't find any xover or bm settings. Guess they left that to the amps.

It's a fixed setting. Most likely 80 Hz.

Thats what i was wondering,its not like the 3910 which has 40,60,80,100 i think. For a flagship one would think it would be.

Just a different philosophy. For example, to get the flexibility that Denon has, they have to convert SACD's DSD to PCM. Pioneer however, keeps SACD DSD the whole way to the DACs.

Just a different philosophy. For example, to get the flexibility that Denon has, they have to convert SACD's DSD to PCM. Pioneer however, keeps SACD DSD the whole way to the DACs.

This is multi-channel only, right?

If you are playing SACD 2 channel it stays strictly DSD doesn't it? (I hope so)

By the way, if anyone's in the market, Magnolia Hi-Fi currently has an incredible price on the DVD-79AVi. If you're looking and have one nearby, it's worth checking out. (No, I don't work there, but the price is almost half of what it was when I looked two weeks ago…)

By the way, if anyone's in the market, Magnolia Hi-Fi currently has an incredible price on the DVD-79AVi. If you're looking and have one nearby, it's worth checking out. (No, I don't work there, but the price is almost half of what it was when I looked two weeks ago…)


I just checked with a Magnolia in Washington State and they say this model is discontinued which would explain the price. Half is about right.

Supposedly the DV-46AVI is the new model but that doesn't make sense to me.
I wonder if Pioneer discontinued the 79, which would make for a short run on this model, or maybe it's a case of Magnolia not wanting to carry that specific model.

They also carry Denon, maybe they intend to focus on them.
I had settled on buying a new Denon soon, but at this price a may reconsider.

This is multi-channel only, right?

If you are playing SACD 2 channel it stays strictly DSD doesn't it? (I hope so)

I don't understand the question. For any SACD 2 ch or MC, BM or no BM on the Pio, it stays DSD all the way up to the DACs.

I would be surprised if the 79AVi has been discontinued already. It's still a relatively new player. Plus, it's still on Pio's web site. Unless they just aren't selling that well.

I don't understand the question. For any SACD 2 ch or MC, BM or no BM on the Pio, it stays DSD all the way up to the DACs.

I would be surprised if the 79AVi has been discontinued already. It's still a relatively new player. Plus, it's still on Pio's web site. Unless they just aren't selling that well.

Magnolia tells me they are clearing them out in preparation for Blue Ray.
If so that would make for a pretty big hole in Pioneer's line from BD all the way down to the DV-47.

Also, the 79 is suddenly $500 cheaper MRSP on the Canadian website.

Magnolia tells me they are clearing them out in preparation for Blue Ray.
If so that would make for a pretty big hole in Pioneer's line from BD all the way down to the DV-47.

Also, the 79 is suddenly $500 cheaper MRSP on the Canadian website.

Yep, MSRP on the Canadian website now shows $999.00. You could probably get it from a dealer for around CDN 700.00 to 800.00.

IMHO, the 79AVi is a bargain at around 700 to 800... I have no complaints with mine despite the one negative review it got later on. It is a solid player with excellent PQ and sound... I use the internal DTS and Dolby decoder on mine and I also use it as my secondary CD player.

Yep, MSRP on the Canadian website now shows $999.00. You could probably get it from a dealer for around CDN 700.00 to 800.00.

IMHO, the 79AVi is a bargain at around 700 to 800... I have no complaints with mine despite the one negative review it got later on. It is a solid player with excellent PQ and sound... I use the internal DTS and Dolby decoder on mine and I also use it as my secondary CD player.

Just talked to local dealer, he didn't know the price had gone down. Figures.

It would be my primary DVD player and secondary audio player (for hi-rez).

Was thinking of the new Denon 2930 which I'll likely be able to get in the same price range. It has HDCD and the new SO chip. Have always liked the 79 too, though..

Decisions Decisions

I'm trying to decide on a new DVD player. What would be the rationale for selecting the Pioneer 79AVi even with its discounted price over one of the HD-DVD players, like the Toshiba A1 which list for less than the discounted Pioneers. I'm just trying to learn. Thanks

For folks like me who have not made the move to HD DVD (and Blu-Ray), the advantage of the Pioneer is instant response time. Turn it on, put the DVD in the tray and play. The Pio is less complicated too compared to the Toshiba which is actually a PC with an Intel CPU inside... this means it requires less power to run, is less noisy (no cooling fan), and it probably will last longer.

Magnolia tells me they are clearing them out in preparation for Blue Ray.
If so that would make for a pretty big hole in Pioneer's line from BD all the way down to the DV-47.

Also, the 79 is suddenly $500 cheaper MRSP on the Canadian website.

I think the 79 might be a good match for my new Pioneer 5071 plasma since it has a 768 native resolution and HDMI. Could anyone PM me with an online authorized AD where I could order one since they are closing them out?

Thanks, Ed

Did i look in the wrong places because i'm being told the 59 is not only better but cheaper? I just got{its in the mail} the 79 and i didnt see the 59 much for sale and when i did it was more.

Did i look in the wrong places because i'm being told the 59 is not only better but cheaper? I just got{its in the mail} the 79 and i didnt see the 59 much for sale and when i did it was more.

Some folks and reviewers say that the 59 has a little better video quality, but most all say that the 79 has better audio (and HDMI).

The 59AVi has HDMI too.

Remember, any benefits from the potential better audio in the 79AVi will only be realized if you use the players DACs. If you go Toslink, coax, i.Link, or HDMI, no better than the 59AVi. And as previously mentioned, the 59AVi is cheaper.

LOL,well the 79 is heavier. Anyway i'm sure i'm going to be happy with it, both would have been better then any other player i've owned and i am more audio then video.

Magnolia tells me they are clearing them out in preparation for Blue Ray.
If so that would make for a pretty big hole in Pioneer's line from BD all the way down to the DV-47.Unless someone's heard something I haven't, it could still be quite a wait for the Pioneer Blu-Ray player.

I suspect this probably has more to do with Denon's latest refresh; I suspect they'll carry the new DV-47 Elite player and sell the Denon 2930 and 3930 as their "high end" normal DVD players as the two nicely bracket the MSRP of the 79-AVi.

FWIW, the US Pioneer site still lists the 79-AVi and still lists its MSRP at $1,000.

The 59AVi has HDMI too.

Remember, any benefits from the potential better audio in the 79AVi will only be realized if you use the players DACs. If you go Toslink, coax, i.Link, or HDMI, no better than the 59AVi. And as previously mentioned, the 59AVi is cheaper.

That's what I used to think. In recent online chats with some very knowledgeable and hard core audiophiles, they say there is a perceptible difference in audio quality between some higher end CD players when using the digital outs.

That's what I used to think. In recent online chats with some very knowledgeable and hard core audiophiles, they say there is a perceptible difference in audio quality between some higher end CD players when using the digital outs. That may be true, but here (59avi vs 79avi) it's highly doubtful you'll hear a difference. With i.Link it's about guaranteed.

larry

You mean its guaranteed you will hear a difference with i-link,right?

That may be true, but here (59avi vs 79avi) it's highly doubtful you'll hear a difference. With i.Link it's about guaranteed.

larry

Here is a quote from Ultimate AV reviewer Thomas Norton, from his review of the 79AVi

"On CDs, the Pioneer surprised me in that it exceeded even the very fine performance I heard from the older (and more expensive) Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi. Certainly most of the credit here for both the DVD-Video(DD and DTS) and CD (PCM) performance goes to the D/A converters in the Anthem processor I used for most of the listening tests, but I've been around the block long enough to know that, for CDs at least, the digital transport matters, and I had no complaints about the DV-79AVi on that score."

Here is a link to the full review: Ultimate AV review of the Pioneer DV-79AVi (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/dvdplayers/706pioneerdv79avi/)

audaud.com also reviewed the 79.

Magnolia tells me they are clearing them out in preparation for Blue Ray.
If so that would make for a pretty big hole in Pioneer's line from BD all the way down to the DV-47.

Also, the 79 is suddenly $500 cheaper MRSP on the Canadian website.I would think the BluRay player is only good for video and doesn't have a decent DAC for CD audio. Their specs don't do anything to detail the audio. I called them looking for answers to a universal player and the rep was pretty much clueless about this too.

I'm not a fan of Denon because it looks like an old non-ES Sony due to the busy display and cheap white lights. But, it looks like they seem to have the better universal player at this point.

Here is a quote from Ultimate AV reviewer Thomas Norton, from his review of the 79AVi

"On CDs, the Pioneer surprised me in that it exceeded even the very fine performance I heard from the older (and more expensive) Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi. Certainly most of the credit here for both the DVD-Video(DD and DTS) and CD (PCM) performance goes to the D/A converters in the Anthem processor I used for most of the listening tests, but I've been around the block long enough to know that, for CDs at least, the digital transport matters, and I had no complaints about the DV-79AVi on that score."

Here is a link to the full review: Ultimate AV review of the Pioneer DV-79AVi (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/dvdplayers/706pioneerdv79avi/) The only way you'll know is to listen for yourself. And I've been around the block enough times to know to take any "professional" review with a grain of salt, especially such a cursory review as the link. And why would he review a player a not use its DACs? It wasn't an Anthem review. Was he switching back and forth between the 2 players or remembering what he heard - how long ago?? I never question what people hear, just the reasons why they may have heard what they did or say they did.

larry

But others use benchmarks as the bible. If its good in Secrets,its good then.

Secrets does analytical *video* tests where there is a concrete result that can be quantified. Someone *saying* one player sounds better or worse than another is subjective, and can only be verified using double blind A/B/X testing, which is almost never done in practice because the result is usually that no difference can be statistically verified to exist. But "knowledgeable and hard core audiophiles" don't like that. :)

In the end its all in the eyes{or ears} of the beholder.

Well i got mine yesterday and will hook it up tomorrow. Went through the last 10 pages or so for some setup hints. One thing i learned was most want a perfect player that does everything for not much bucks. LOL

Questions,when your setting the speaker distance,when i set the main right to 11ft and try to set the left,it changes the right so i'm suppose to pick the best one for both?
Playing a reg cd through the analongs no sub? Thats how my sony was but my denon used the sub.
Why does the distence settings have no effect on SACD playback?

:) First, to all the participants on this thread: Thank you for so much intelligent, passionate, informative, discussion. As an audiophile, engineer and techno-nerd for nearly 50 years I've learned that Lab measurements are the best we can do to measure a design but they NEVER translate into what the magnificent human machine can perceive, That's why I've looked and listened to the data taken by Kris( WELL DONE,SIR! Thank you) and looked and listened to the DV-79AVi and decided to buy it! We've seen similar discussions at every technical crossroads. Hi-Fi to Stereo (Terrible-creates a "hole in the middle"!); Stereo to Quadraphonic (CD-4 or Quad?); Solid state Amps (Tubes are dead!) Beta or VHS(The superior technical solution doesn't always win, sorry Sony.); Cassette as a serious source? (An inferior design can be overcome with technology-Dolby, DBX, Metal oxides); CD is the ultimate source( vinyl is dead). Digital is king! Analog is dead; and for this discussion:

DVD-Audio VS. SACD (Sony again!) WAIT! Analog multi channel format that sounds closer to vinyl than CD? I thought vinyl and analog were dead! At least this time, to our great benefit, the player manufacturers covered both formats even if the industry is prematurely killing perhaps the best sonic solution in the digital world to date. All to make room for the next format war/debate: HD- DVD VS Blu-ray (hmmm is that Sony I hear again?) . Oh well! For now, I'll just buy a solid "universal" player that's built to last (DV-79AVi) so in the future I'll be able to show my great-grandchildren what a DVD-Audio or SACD disc sounded/looked like like. I'll keep it next to my Thorens Turntable, Sony HI-FI Betamax, and Akai 3-Head cassette deck.

Now, if only there were really a "universal "player to play the entire spectrum of the evolution of high fidelity sources. Of course you'd have to play it through a good Tube amp to be accurate...WAIT Tubes are dead! Remember it's the experience that counts. IT'S FUN ISN'T IT! May the circle be unbroken! :)

Has it been discoed?

Has it been discoed?
No. It's still Pioneer's top of the line regular DVD player.

If you look back through this thread, it seems as though it has been discontinued.

Just an opinion here, but their resources seem to be going towards Blu-Ray, so I doubt they will develop another flagship standard player, although they will probably continue to release lower end ones.

I agree, but ... Every other Pio flagship player had been around for at least 2 years. (The 45a being a big exception in that it's been around almost 5 years now, believe it or not. The 47A was only around about 6 months before the 47Ai came out, but the 47A had horrible SACD sound quality with its Cirrus/Crystal DACS. Pio smartly went back to Burr Browns with the 47Ai.)

But the 79AVi was only around for about a year. Maybe even less than that. I would have thought that sure, no more development, but keep the player around for people who want to buy a high end Pio SD player. By discontinuing it "early", does Pio actually think they will funnel those people into buying a BR player? Or more likely, they'll just buy a Denon, Yamaha, etc.

IF (and this is a big IF) the Pioneer Blu-ray Elite player did everything the 79Avi did and was roughly the same price (or even a couple of hundred more expensive) it would make complete sense to discontinue the 79Avi.

To my understanding, the 79Avi can do other things.

What is the price difference between the two players?

IF (and this is a big IF) the Pioneer Blu-ray Elite player did everything the 79Avi did and was roughly the same price (or even a couple of hundred more expensive) it would make complete sense to discontinue the 79Avi.

To my understanding, the 79Avi can do other things.

What is the price difference between the two players?

After a call to Pioneer it is not discoed.

IF (and this is a big IF) the Pioneer Blu-ray Elite player did everything the 79Avi did and was roughly the same price (or even a couple of hundred more expensive) it would make complete sense to discontinue the 79Avi.

To my understanding, the 79Avi can do other things.

What is the price difference between the two players?

MSRP says $500 difference, but that is always flexible. Don't think the BD player will be universal; I think it just plays SD DVDs and BDs for now.

Good to hear that it isn't discontinued...

MSRP says $500 difference, but that is always flexible. Don't think the BD player will be universal; I think it just plays SD DVDs and BDs for now.

Good to hear that it isn't discontinued...Also, no Blu-Ray (nor HD-DVD) player will play SACDs and DVD-As, two reasons I bought the 79AVi.

If all I wanted was SD DVD, I would have stuck with my (still exceptional) DV-09. (Yeah, it can't read many DVD-R/+Rs, but neither can most newer, out of the box Denons.)

I still don't believe that it is not discontinued. Others here have said that they are. And I've had the experience when talking to Pio customer service, sometimes you get a different answer to the same question ... depending on the person you talk to. :) Ultimately, we'll all know soon enough if it becomes more and more difficult to find new ones.

One good thing, I hope, is that Pio was one of the 1st companies to do a universal DVD-A and SACD machine. (The DV-AX1 or something.) So hopefully they see the benefit of trying to do something like that for HD DVD and Blu-ray.

I still don't believe that it is not discontinued. Others here have said that they are. And I've had the experience when talking to Pio customer service, sometimes you get a different answer to the same question ... depending on the person you talk to. :) Ultimately, we'll all know soon enough if it becomes more and more difficult to find new ones.

One good thing, I hope, is that Pio was one of the 1st companies to do a universal DVD-A and SACD machine. (The DV-AX1 or something.) So hopefully they see the benefit of trying to do something like that for HD DVD and Blu-ray.

Got this from much higher up than customer service.

Does anyone know that channel level settings in the 79AVi take effect on SACD and DVD-A signals from i.Link? I heard that channel levels set in the Yamaha DVD-S2500 do have an effect on those signals via i.Link. How about the 79avi?

I belive when you use i-link,your using the receivers BM.

I still don't believe that it is not discontinued. Others here have said that they are. And I've had the experience when talking to Pio customer service, sometimes you get a different answer to the same question ... depending on the person you talk to. :) Ultimately, we'll all know soon enough if it becomes more and more difficult to find new ones.

One good thing, I hope, is that Pio was one of the 1st companies to do a universal DVD-A and SACD machine. (The DV-AX1 or something.) So hopefully they see the benefit of trying to do something like that for HD DVD and Blu-ray.

I was trying to track one down. I contacted David at Yawa, who is an authorized SoCal dealer, and he said he was sold out and the '79 is no longer available.

I was trying to track one down. I contacted David at Yawa, who is an authorized SoCal dealer, and he said he was sold out and the '79 is no longer available.

Try ebay, that's where I bought mine (new) last winter. Here's a link to some available now ebay - pioneer elite DVD players (http://electronics.search.*********/pioneer-elite_Single-Disc-DVD-Players_W0QQfromZR4QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsacatZ15077QQssPageName ZWLRS)

I heard that the new Pio and Sony Blu-ray players *might* not even play CDs.

I have also heard of two chip companies that now have solutions for playing HD DVD and Blu-ray in the same machine. I'm betting/hoping same time next year for a next gen "universal" player.

I heard that the new Pio and Sony Blu-ray players *might* not even play CDs.

I have also heard of two chip companies that now have solutions for playing HD DVD and Blu-ray in the same machine. I'm betting/hoping same time next year for a next gen "universal" player.No, they will play CDs.

Like all Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players, they won't play SACDs or the high resolution portion of DVD-A discs.

I'm confused. I've read a few VERY positive reviews of this model, and I decided that the 79AVi would be my next High End DVD-player. But after searching for more information, a couple of reviews claim that the 79AVi has deinterlacing problems. And it seems this is a hot topic in here.

I'm going to send 720p through HDMI to my BenQ 8720 (native 720p). The 8720 does not support interlaced over HDMI, so I have no choice. But if the 79AVi does a poor job deinterlacing, maybe a different player would be a better choice.

I can't say that I understand what the deinterlacing problem looks like, so I might not notice it (but I know I'll be looking for it).

What to do, what to do?

Shoot, just when I thought I had found the right model, new information makes me unsure. Isn't it typical?!

I've seen a couple deinterlacing errors with mine, but there are so many adjustments you can always dial them out with a few clicks of the remote.

Further, if you find yourself doing it often, there are multiple memory settings you can use to rapidly select whichever ones eliminate the error for the disc you're using.

Frankly, you usually have to look for them; in the three or so months I've had mine, I've had to dial out some errors once, and that's because it was a burned DVD-R that didn't have the proper flags set when it was mastered (it was mastered from a 24 FPS film source but the DVD flags were set such that it thought it was 30 FPS video.)

The only player I've seen so far that might look a little better is a Denon DVD-3930, and it lists for $1499.

I'm confused. I've read a few VERY positive reviews of this model, and I decided that the 79AVi would be my next High End DVD-player. But after searching for more information, a couple of reviews claim that the 79AVi has deinterlacing problems. And it seems this is a hot topic in here.

I'm going to send 720p through HDMI to my BenQ 8720 (native 720p). The 8720 does not support interlaced over HDMI, so I have no choice. But if the 79AVi does a poor job deinterlacing, maybe a different player would be a better choice.

I can't say that I understand what the deinterlacing problem looks like, so I might not notice it (but I know I'll be looking for it).

What to do, what to do?

Shoot, just when I thought I had found the right model, new information makes me unsure. Isn't it typical?!

It does have an odd deinterlacing problem that was noticed on a high-detail shot in Gladiator, and on a MS test disc. That said, I never noticed the error while viewing a movie. I had the player for around 6 months and can't remember seeing any errors at all - I think the recovery time of the player is very good, so if it messes up a cadence it recovers quickly.

I'm using an old RP-82 now which is rated *much* higher on the secrets benchmark, but I've noticed deinterlacing problems more often on that machine. Seems almost impossible, but i think it's because the RP-82 has a slower recovery time, which allows a hiccup to be more visible.

Anyhow, my point is, the 79AVi is a very pleasing player to own and watch. If it fits your needs, it isn't a bad unit. That said, I'm guessing the new Denon's (2930 and 3930) are good options, as is the Oppo 971/981 if you don't have a macroblocking display.

Thanks for the replies guys.
Good to hear that the deinterlacing problem isn't visible for the most part. And I'm glad to hear that you think it's a good player.

The Denon 2930 is a good candidate, but the 3930 is a bit too expensive. I believe I read someone mention that the 79AVi got a better scrore than the 3930 in a shootout. I could be wrong though.

Oppo gives most for the money, but using a budget player with a High End projector just doesn't feel right. Since I'm not buying HD DVD or BluRay (might get the Xbox 360 add on when it's released) in a year or so, I want a DVD player that does a superb job upscaling DVD's to 720p. I can get the 79AVi for a good price, so it's probably the best player I can afford.

Jonnyozero3:
When you say "...if you don't have a macroblocking display.", what do you mean? I guess a digital projector would be a display in this category.

The Denon 2930 is a good candidate, but the 3930 is a bit too expensive. I believe I read someone mention that the 79AVi got a better scrore than the 3930 in a shootout. I could be wrong though.I don't believe any shootouts have been published with the 3930 as of yet.

Ok, my mistake. Maybe it was a test that favored the 79AVi over the 3930 or something like that...

No, they will play CDs.

I would expect that you are right, but I saw the comment in either WSR or HT Mag that they might not.

Ok, my mistake. Maybe it was a test that favored the 79AVi over the 3930 or something like that...

The 3930 will do far better on tests than the 79Avi.

The 3930 will do far better on tests than the 79Avi.

Wow, you already know the results. I didnt know they did any tests yet. I sure hope you dont point anybody in the wrong direction.

Honestly, as much as I loved my 79avi (and it's faults), the Realta chip in the 3930 really should be a stronger performer. I think it's a safe bet that it will score higher on the Secrets and HQV, etc, benchmarks. It is a generation newer as well, is it not?

Wow, you already know the results. I didnt know they did any tests yet. I sure hope you dont point anybody in the wrong direction.

Acutally, I've used the 3930 (and on tests) and I already know how the 79Avi performs (see Secrets Benchmark).

Honestly, as much as I loved my 79avi (and it's faults), the Realta chip in the 3930 really should be a stronger performer. I think it's a safe bet that it will score higher on the Secrets and HQV, etc, benchmarks. It is a generation newer as well, is it not?

But the 79AVi was a generation newer than the 59AVi, and the 59AVi did better on Kris's tests. :D

MB aside, I've seen reports that the deinterlacing on the 2930 and 3930 is not as good as the 3910 (film or video, can't remember which though).

Me? I will wait for his actual test results before I attempt to draw any conclusions.

MB aside, I've seen reports that the deinterlacing on the 2930 and 3930 is not as good as the 3910 (film or video, can't remember which though).



Any link or source? I'd like to read the reports.

This is what I was remembering, the comment about the Snell and Wilcox test pattern:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8677199&&#post8677199

And here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8717187&&#post8717187

But he got the explanation from Denon here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8759806&&#post8759806

Kris's test will provide the apples to apples comparison we need to properly compare it vs other players.

But the 79AVi was a generation newer than the 59AVi, and the 59AVi did better on Kris's tests. :D

Me? I will wait for his actual test results before I attempt to draw any conclusions.

Just because I'd say it's a safe bet doesn't mean I think it's guaranteed, nor was I drawing/stating any definite conclusion. And yes, as a former 79avi owner I'm well aware of the generational down-grade there. On that note, the 3k series of players from Denon (at least recently) is usually where the trickle down effect from the flagship 5k series players happen, so it's a good place to be able to guess "in the ballpark" of performance. With the Realta in the 5910 pretty much an amazing piece of work, I still think it's a safe bet that the 3930 will be a strong unit. And as much as I loved my 79avi, it won't take much to embarrass that on tests.

This is what I was remembering, the comment about the Snell and Wilcox test pattern:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8677199&&#post8677199

And here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8717187&&#post8717187

But he got the explanation from Denon here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8759806&&#post8759806

Kris's test will provide the apples to apples comparison we need to properly compare it vs other players.

Okay, so the whole second half of that was poor deinterlacing on the part of his TV. The Snell and Wilcox pattern thing sounds interesting to investigate. But that's just one report on one pattern.

I just received my 79AVi and I am having some VERY frustrating problems with the component output.

When using the player in progressive scan mode through the component video outputs the picture is very jagged. Any diagonal lines on the screen appear as steps. I have thoroughly looked through all of the menus and tried MANY different options. I have turned progressive on and off multiple times. The easiest way to describe the problem is an exaggerated interlaced video effect.

When the player is not in progressive mode the picture color is less vivid showing that it does make some difference and a switch is definitely being made but there is a problem.

I have a much cheaper Pioneer DVD player (578A) which I have been doing direct comparisons with. The 578A looks extremely smooth with no jagged edges and looks exactly like the component output I am used to.

The problem is even evident on the setup menus. You can see the interlaced effect when changing between setup icons and the grayed out icons are really blurry. (The grayed out icons on the 578A are gray but very readable.)

The DVD player is hooked directly into the TVs component video input. I do not have HDMI capability so I do not know if the problem occurs there as well.

Any ideas...
Thanks
Bryan

Do you have it set to "Auto 2"? That might help - but I can't remember the menus, so my apologies if that's what you meant by "progressive on and off."

I am not sure what you mean by "Auto 2" but I tried all of the preset "Video Adjustments" and tried making some of my own. The sliders had NO effect on the problem.

I put up some hue/saturation tests with my Avia calibration DVD and the solid blocks blink insanely with interlaced lines... Not good.

I am going to try to call Pioneer tomorrow. Luckily its under warranty... Any other feedback is appreciated! Thanks Jonnyo for the message

No simple fix from Pioneer. I will be bringing the unit in to a local service center on Saturday.

No one else with this problem?

Bryan

There's a few reviews on the internet that talks about the setup and explains auto 2. Just type Pioneer 79AVI in google and they will show up. I think theres 2 or 3.

The "Auto 2" PureCinema Mode setting helped a little but definitely did not solve the problem. I just dropped the unit off at my local service center... It will be at least 2 weeks until I get it back :(

Just for the heck of it, I connected my Pioneer 79avi to my computer via the i.link port. The computer recognized it and tried to load drivers for an "AV/C Panel" and an "AV/C Disk Recorder/Player" but could not locate any. Has anyone tried this with some success? What would it be capable of if it had proper drivers loaded?

Thanks.