For all of you that were waiting for it, it's now official.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/press/release/detail/0,,2076_4313_276825170,00.html

Ange.

I hope they don't gouge prices on the silver edition. I might get one of those.

Does anyone know what is different between the 79AVI and the existing 59AVi?

I'm curious if there is any reason to sell the 59 and move to the 79, at this point it doesn't look like it.

fray, in general, there are pretty marginal differences between one year's model and the next when it comes to electronics. IMO, it's not worth upgrading unless there is a huge difference (such as fixing a known problem or adding a significant feature, such as upscaling, none of which apply in this case).

AlieniceT, having read many of your excellent posts, just how many DVD players do you have??

Count me in as excited, especially about cutting the MSRP almost in half. The 59 is ridiculous at $1,600 MSRP, the 79 is a more palatable $1,000. I'm betting street pricing will be very close between the 2. I am interested in seeing what the blowout pricing will be on the 59 :), might have to snag another one.

The DV-79AVi will be available in November for an estimated market price of $1000.

"Market price." I take market price as being the street price. MSRP might be higher. We'll see I guess!

Does anyone know what is different between the 79AVI and the existing 59AVi?

I'm curious if there is any reason to sell the 59 and move to the 79, at this point it doesn't look like it.

To me it looks like a step down. The DV-59AVi has better Video DACs.

AlieniceT, having read many of your excellent posts, just how many DVD players do you have??

Thanks for the compliment, BillP. At the moment, I have 14. :o Half of them are in use in three rooms (One R1 and one region-free per room). I genuinely enjoy comparing players and I am always searching for the model that has "everything", which means everything I want in a machine. At the moment, the 59AVi is the closest to my ideal, being the primary player in my main HT.

I watch a lot of movies, and honestly unless we are talking about players built like tanks, I don't have a lot of faith in current player longevity under constant use. None of my players have a lot of hours on them. I have a Panny XP-30 with less than 30 hours on it. Outstanding machine, but I was using a Denon DVD-1600 as my main player for its' DVD-Audio when I got the XP-30. Now it's in storage. I have two RP-62's I got off eBay from people who needed cash. They were silly cheap. With the latest firmware, their PQ is better than ever, and they now support DVD+R and DVD+R DL, which is very nice. I was going to sell them, but now I don't know. :p I hook up my friends with some good machines when I run out of room, but more frequently they solicit my advice based on my findings. If you haven't had first hand experience with a machine, you're just spreading propaganda in my opinion.

I'm thinking of building a DVD Player Hall of Fame, and the 79AVi 20th Anniversary Limited Edition Silver model would make a nice addition. :D

"Market price." I take market price as being the street price. MSRP might be higher. We'll see I guess!

I agree, Kevin. I'm thinking Pioneer will have no problem moving the 79AVi at the "market" price. $1,000.00 from an authorized dealer is still an attractive price compared to the Denon 5910 or the Onkyo SP1000. Look at the new Sony DVP-NS9100ES at $1,299.00 MSRP, which does not do 480i over HDMI or support DVD-Audio.

It's so funny seeing people speculating on the net... :D

I have the 79avi since 2 weeks already, and it's simply better then my 59avi in all aspects, on both the video and audio sides.

480i over HDMI "direct", faster layer change, no more CUE bug, better audio, better build quality...

A step down.. Come on! You have to compare them both side-by-side to really appreciate the differences. The 79avi is a better machine. ;)

You can speculate all you want, but I have both... :D

LEVESQUE,
Agreed. You know where I stand. :)

If you haven't had first hand experience with a machine, you're just spreading propaganda in my opinion.

It's so funny seeing people speculating on the net... :D

I have the 79avi since 2 weeks already, and it's simply better then my 59avi in all aspects, on both the video and audio sides.

480i over HDMI "direct", faster layer change, no more CUE bug, better audio, better build quality...

A step down.. Come on! You have to compare them both side-by-side to really appreciate the differences. The 79avi is a better machine. ;)

You can speculate all you want, but I have both... :D

I'm not speculating about the DV-79Avi Video DACs. The DV-59AVi are 216Mhz/14bit opposed to the DV-79AVi 108Mhz/14bit. Of course, this is important for those who will use the analog video outputs. It's totally irrelevant for the HDMI users.

The truth is its performance as you correctly stated. And the DV-59AVi was a good player for under the $2,000 range. It's one of the few players capable of bringing real detail from hi res disc when I compared with the Marantz SA8260 SACD dedicated player (which I own) and the Denon 5900 (which I borrowed). I know the DV-79AVi audio was fine tuned at Air Studios. But the difference is that dramatic?

How come did you get one if it's suppose to be released on November? It's not even listed in the Pioneer Canadian Website?

How come did you get one if it's suppose to be released on November? It's not even listed in the Pioneer Canadian Website?

Pioneer is already providing "demo" units for reviewers... ;)

Well, since it's official now, could someone post a pic of the thing? I'm surprised they didn't include one with the press release. Or did I miss something?

Woohoo, silver!

Pix, and some more info in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5892613&&#post5892613

One thing Levesque left out that potentially shows the difference between the 59AVi and the new machine:

59AVi: 12 lbs
79AVi: 20 lbs

Weight isn't everything, but I personally expect the new machine to have an upgrade in sound quality through it's DACs.

but I personally expect the new machine to have an upgrade in sound quality through it's DACs.

I think those duel transformers will give a good jump in audio and video performance to the 79Avi. I also like the pure digital bypass, that will send an unprocessed video single out of the player (like SDI), perfect for an external scalar.

I'm not speculating about the DV-79Avi Video DACs. The DV-59AVi are 216Mhz/14bit opposed to the DV-79AVi 108Mhz/14bit. Of course, this is important for those who will use the analog video outputs I'll bet you good money that with all else equal, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the 2 sets of video DACs at 480i/p into any display of your choice.

larry

I'll bet you good money that with all else equal, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the 2 sets of video DACs at 480i/p into any display of your choice.

larry

Larry,
I agree. For component 480i/p out, there have been few players out there that could match the Panasonic RP82/XP30/50 for a few years now. And that player uses 10-bit/54Mhz DAC's to get the job done. The mpeg decoder and deinterlacing processor are every bit as important as the video DAC's.

Larry,
I agree. For component 480i/p out, there have been few players out there that could match the Panasonic RP82/XP30/50 for a few years now. And that player uses 10-bit/54Mhz DAC's to get the job done. The mpeg decoder and deinterlacing processor are every bit as important as the video DAC's.Yes. My main point to HiRes was that specs aren't everthing. They use the newer DACs because that's what's commonly available now and they probably know that some people obsess over specs. :)

larry

Yes. My main point to HiRes was that specs aren't everthing. They use the newer DACs because that's what's commonly available now and they probably know that some people obsess over specs. :)

larry

PooperScooper,

I agree with you that specs aren't everything. However, Pioneer Elite always replace their products with something "better" from the previous efforts. The Analog Devices AD7314 it's still at the top of the line and their most expensive consumer Video DAC ($57.42 for quantities over 1000 units). And as I said before, if you go with HDMI, the internal Video DAC won't be used so it won't be an issue.

Bringing the price point of the top of the line universal player from $1,600 to a mere $1,000 doesn't sound logical to me. Nevertheless, I'll wait for a serious & competent review before I decide to get one to replace or just complement my DV-59AVi.

Bringing the price point of the top of the line universal player from $1,600 to a mere $1,000 doesn't sound logical to me.

Why not?

HiDef-DVD is right around the corner, how many people are going to want a flagship DVD player this late in the game? I think it’s smart, it’s time to update the 59Avi but offer it at a respectable price for those that are going to hold off a little bit for Hidef-DVD. Offering an $2000.00+ DVD player now could be like shooting your self in the foot.

I'm not too worried about DAC's for legacy outputs. I'm HDMI all the way and at that street price I'm going jump on it for my HD+.

It's good to hear audio is better than the 59avi.

Lev,
How does the deinterlacing compare to Si504 in the HD+? I love to see it improve video deinterlacing to compete with Faroudja.
Does it have TA for SACD?
Is there an adjustable crossover for BM?

HiDef-DVD is right around the corner, how many people are going to want a flagship DVD player this late in the game? I think it’s smart, it’s time to update the 59Avi but offer it at a respectable price for those that are going to hold off a little bit for Hidef-DVD. Offering an $2000.00+ DVD player now could be like shooting your self in the foot.
That's exactly what Denon did as well, coming out with the 3910, which is as good as the 5900 for video, at a much lower price. With HD coming out next year, it is a wise strategy.

480i over HDMI "direct

How does the 480i over HDMI "direct" compare to 480i over HDMI of the 59AVi?

I have very interested in this feature to feed a DVDO iSCAN VP30...

The japanese version is named DV-AX5AVi and the MSRP is only a hair more than 969AVi ... seems to suggest another flagship ...

Lev,
How does the deinterlacing compare to Si504 in the HD+? Does it have TA for SACD? Is there an adjustable crossover for BM?

De-interlacing is not alot better then the 59avi, but CUE bug seems to be eliminate, or at least filtered (I can't have a definitive answer from Pioneer on that). They say "no CUE bug anymore", but we can't find the MPEG decoder name and number precisely for now. PQ seems a bit better when direct (480p, 720p) to my projector (w/o the IScan). Sharper, popping colors.

I did try some Disney titles (Monster Inc, Toy Story) and CUE seems to be a thing of the past now.

No TA for SACD and no adjustable crossover. Just like the 59avi.

480i HDMI "Direct" to the IScan HD+ is better then when using the 59avi. But we are splitting hair here... I have a 110" screen and you have to be looking for ringing to really see it with the 59avi... 79avi is better on that part.

But if you don't want to spend $$$ on SDI, you need HDMI 1.1, or a better analog audio, then the 79avi is the way to go over the 59avi. Or else, there is no need to "upgrade".

If build quality is important to you, then the 79avi is way better in that regard. Bigger, sturdy, heavier.

79avi: http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/DSC03320_Medium_.JPG

So the layer change is "improved", but still evident? This is my main complaint with my 59.

No TA for SACD and no adjustable crossover.
Could you please explain what those 2 things mean? Thank you!

So the layer change is "improved", but still evident? This is my main complaint with my 59.

It's "improved", but it's still there. It's not the Denon 2900... ;)

Hello Welly Wu

Saw you over at Audiocircles. How does your modwright sound since you
got it back from Dan. What mods did you get?

Thanks

Jim
:)

I own a DV-59AVi (DV-868AVi) connected to an AX10i (49TXi). I prefer i.link over analog, but in both cases I miss some deep/dynamic bass/mid in the sound stage when I listen to Stereo CDs (with and without MCACC). Analog connection with MonsterCable MKII 400 interlinks does improve the bass/mid a bit, but this does not really improve the overall stereo sound. Stereo on this combination is not excellent and it is likely that the DV-59AVi is the main source of this problem.

Is the 79AVi improved when it comes to Stereo sound via analog and i.link?

Gerald.

what do i-link do? Is it only for audio?
Is there a great difference between a decent priced Denon DVD-1710 or a sony dvd player and a higher price tagged Denon 3910 or what i really am interested in DV-79AVi?

i.Link uses Firewire aka IEEE 1394. It allows the DVD player to send _all_ digital audio bitstreams to a processor - DD/DTS, low and hi-rez PCM, SACD, DVD-A. Firewire can also be used to send/receive video - D-VHS decks, cable STBs, Mitsubishi makes big use of it in their gear - but it's not i.Link.

larry

i.Link uses Firewire aka IEEE 1394. It allows the DVD player to send _all_ digital audio bitstreams to a processor - DD/DTS, low and hi-rez PCM, SACD, DVD-A. Firewire can also be used to send/receive video - D-VHS decks, cable STBs, Mitsubishi makes big use of it in their gear - but it's not i.Link.

larry


Am I understanding this to mean that i.Link can be used to transmit the DD or DTS sound on a DVD-video? Should I use this instead of the digital coax or optical sound connection (I primarily use it to watch movies, but I listen to music on occasion). Also will I have to connect the analog jacks to listen to regular CDs?

Thanks for your help - still a little bit of a newbie!

Am I understanding this to mean that i.Link can be used to transmit the DD or DTS sound on a DVD-video? Should I use this instead of the digital coax or optical sound connection (I primarily use it to watch movies, but I listen to music on occasion). Also will I have to connect the analog jacks to listen to regular CDs?

Thanks for your help - still a little bit of a newbie!


i.Link is an all in one connection... it will pass everything from 2-channel/DD/DTS to DVD-A and SACD. You need no other connections if your AVR or processor supports i.Link.

i.Link is an all in one connection... it will pass everything from 2-channel/DD/DTS to DVD-A and SACD. You need no other connections if your AVR or processor supports i.Link.


Wonderful - thanks for the response. I just got a new 74TXi (still in box), so I can use i-Link now for all sound. The good news is we have a nice Pioneer plasma - the bad news is it is a PDP-505HD with no HDMI or DVI. But component will have to do for now for video - unless anyone wants to make me an offer (only had about 1,500 hours of use)????

Thanks again for your help.

Wonderful - thanks for the response. I just got a new 74TXi (still in box), so I can use i-Link now for all sound. The good news is we have a nice Pioneer plasma - the bad news is it is a PDP-505HD with no HDMI or DVI. But component will have to do for now for video - unless anyone wants to make me an offer (only had about 1,500 hours of use)????

Thanks again for your help.


Enjoy your setup then! I have my 59avi paired with the 56txi and the combination is great... flawless operation and sounds great as well...

Enjoy your setup then! I have my 59avi paired with the 56txi and the combination is great... flawless operation and sounds great as well...


That is good to know - I am really anxious to get the 79avi! I guess November, according to the press release, but I haven't heard any firm dates.

Pure direct over component or just HDMI?

The reason I ask is that the new DVDO iSCAN VP30 will output 1080p
over vga if fed from 480i over component but will output 1080i over HDMI if
fed 480i over HDMI. I can live with 1080i :-) but would like to compare
with 1080p ...

Pure direct over component or just HDMI?

The reason I ask is that the new DVDO iSCAN VP30 will output 1080p
over vga if fed from 480i over component but will output 1080i over HDMI if
fed 480i over HDMI. I can live with 1080i :-) but would like to compare
with 1080p ...

Really? I though the HD+ would scale HDMI 480i to 1080p. I can't confirm this since my pj is 720p but if so why would the vp30 not scale 480i hdmi to 1080p?

Could someone explain why is 480i over HDMI important ?

I'd think 480p/720p/1080i would be more preferable..

Regards,
Jose

Really? I though the HD+ would scale HDMI 480i to 1080p. I can't confirm this since my pj is 720p but if so why would the vp30 not scale 480i hdmi to 1080p?

I think it can output 1080p over vga as long as there is no copy protection on the
hdmi input...

I don't believe it can output 1080p over hdmi...

Could someone explain why is 480i over HDMI important ?

I'd think 480p/720p/1080i would be more preferable..

Regards,
Jose


I want the Pioneer Elite 79AVi for what it doesn't do - not for what it does.

It will output raw unprocessed DVD data so that I can input to a video
processor, some of which, should do a much better job of scaling than
the 79AVi...

I want the Pioneer Elite 79AVi for what it doesn't do - not for what it does.

It will output raw unprocessed DVD data so that I can input to a video
processor, some of which, should do a much better job of scaling than
the 79AVi...Actually, MPEG decoders do play a big part in PQ, but being able to send 480i via HDMI is a big plus. Is there a (noticeable) difference between the MPEG decoders in the 59avi and 79avi? If not, the 59avi would be a less expesive route to accomplish the same thing you want to do with the 79avi.

larry

Actually, MPEG decoders do play a big part in PQ, but being able to send 480i via HDMI is a big plus. Is there a (noticeable) difference between the MPEG decoders in the 59avi and 79avi? If not, the 59avi would be a less expesive route to accomplish the same thing you want to do with the 79avi.

larry

I have the 59AVi but alledgedly some processing still occurs on the signal
before being outputed. The 79AVi has a direct mode that suppossedly
does not process the signal at all before being outputed...

I have the 59AVi but alledgedly some processing still occurs on the signal
before being outputed. The 79AVi has a direct mode that suppossedly
does not process the signal at all before being outputed...You may want to check on what "direct mode" really is. Don't assume what any marketing "lingo" really means. :) One would hope that 480i via HDMI is basically the same as an SDI mod - on the 59avi and 79avi. It's possible the 59avi only sends 480i RGB via HDMI (a conversion is needed from the MPEG decoder) vs the 79avi being able to send 480i YCbCr. The player has to process the DVD data bits, I don't know of any external scaler that takes a raw, encrypted MPEG data stream - i.e. has a MPEG decoder.

larry

You may want to check on what "direct mode" really is. Don't assume what any marketing "lingo" really means. :) One would hope that 480i via HDMI is basically the same as an SDI mod - on the 59avi and 79avi. It's possible the 59avi only sends 480i RGB via HDMI (a conversion is needed from the MPEG decoder) vs the 79avi being able to send 480i YCbCr. The player has to process the DVD data bits, I don't know of any external scaler that takes a raw, encrypted MPEG data stream - i.e. has a MPEG decoder.

larry


You may be right - it may only be a color space conversion but would still
prefer not have the color space conversion. The story from
Pioneer seems to be that it is different on the 79AVi...

It's possible the 59avi only sends 480i RGB via HDMI (a conversion is needed from the MPEG decoder) vs the 79avi being able to send 480i YCbCr.
larry

I would consider upgrading my 59avi to the 79avi if that is one of the differences between the two and if the 79avi fed to my VP30 (on order) would therefore show a noticeable improvement.

Mike

I would consider upgrading my 59avi to the 79avi if that is one of the differences between the two and if the 79avi fed to my VP30 (on order) would therefore show a noticeable improvement.

Mike It's possible you could actually see a difference eliminating the YCbCr->RGB->YCbCr conversion (if what's being assumed is true). I don't know if it's an "identity transformation" or not. e.g. YCbCr(1) -> RGB -> YCbCr(2) and YCbCr(1)=YCbCr(2). I'd borrow/audition a 79avi and compare it side by side to verify before upgrading from a 59avi.

larry

I have both the 59AVi and 79Avi side-by-side and I'm seeing a difference, alone to my projector, or at 480i over HDMI to my scaler.

But I'm trying hard to have confirmations on that subject from Pioneer.

OK, sorry if this is a newbie question that is obvious to everyone but me, but here goes.

We have decided to get the PRO-1130 plasma, the DV-79avi player, and we already have the 74txi receiver. Birthday, Christmas, and anniversary for the next few years are taken care of!

Anyway, will using HDMI all the way from the player, thru the receiver, and to the plasma be my best option for picture and sound quality?

Also, are there any settings that I should be aware of to tweak the best possible picture?

Thanks for any help.

I have both the 59AVi and 79Avi side-by-side and I'm seeing a difference, alone to my projector, or at 480i over HDMI to my scaler.

But I'm trying hard to have confirmations on that subject from Pioneer. Cool. So everybody with a 3 chip LCOS PJ should upgrade to the 79avi from the 59avi. :) It will be nice to know what the differences really are, if you can get a straight answer.

larry

Nemo,
There's a current thread now in the Plasma Forum talking about exactly what you asked, minus the receiver part. Look for "Comparison of Pio 6th gen ..." or something like that started by RHarkness.

larry

Cool. So everybody with a 3 chip LCOS PJ should upgrade to the 79avi from the 59avi. :)

That's not what I said... :D

It will be nice to know what the differences really are, if you can get a straight answer.

That's what I'm working on... but every technical questions needs to be sent directly to Japan, and it's a long process to get the answer... :rolleyes:

That's not what I said... :D
I know. It is nice to know there is an improvement. I'm just trying to protect you from the person who does not have the same display, upgrades, and does not see a difference and then comes back here looking for you. :) Hopefully getting info from Pioneer Japan is better than getting info from Onkyo Japan. :)

larry

Nemo,
There's a current thread now in the Plasma Forum talking about exactly what you asked, minus the receiver part. Look for "Comparison of Pio 6th gen ..." or something like that started by RHarkness.

larry


Thanks - interesting read. I don't understand all of it, but it sounds like using 480i form the DV-79 over HDMI will be my best bet. Maybe I should just go straight to the plasma bypassing the 74avi?

I just need to get a good primer on all this stuff - there was one link that had some info in that thread. In my non technical mind it would seem that the highest resolution signal would be the best, but I haven't taken into account refresh rates, plasma settings, etc.

Thanks again.

Thanks - interesting read. I don't understand all of it, but it sounds like using 480i form the DV-79 over HDMI will be my best bet. Maybe I should just go straight to the plasma bypassing the 74avi?

I just need to get a good primer on all this stuff - there was one link that had some info in that thread. In my non technical mind it would seem that the highest resolution signal would be the best, but I haven't taken into account refresh rates, plasma settings, etc.

Thanks again. Me, personally, prefer the least processing and shortest paths for a video connection. But everybody has different priorties and have to make trade offs here and there. So I would go straight to the plasma (or media box) from the DVD player for video. Sending 480i or 480p via HDMI would be the least amount of video processing. Every resolution you send the plasma from the DVD player has to be scaled to 1280x768 by the plasma.

larry

Me, personally, prefer the least processing and shortest paths for a video connection. But everybody has different priorties and have to make trade offs here and there. So I would go straight to the plasma (or media box) from the DVD player for video. Sending 480i or 480p via HDMI would be the least amount of video processing. Every resolution you send the plasma from the DVD player has to be scaled to 1280x768 by the plasma.

larry


The light comes on in my mind, since standard def DVD is 480 - don't know why that was so puzzling to me :), that makes sense, so from that perspective, would you prefer 480p or i? I wonder if the 79avi will do both over HDMI......

I know. It is nice to know there is an improvement. I'm just trying to protect you from the person who does not have the same display, upgrades, and does not see a difference and then comes back here looking for you. :)

Oh! Thank you. ;) :D But I think (and hope) that people realize I'm playing with a pre-production unit here.

Hopefully getting info from Pioneer Japan is better than getting info from Onkyo Japan. :)


That's not really tough to beat. The Pioneer people I'm talking to are really nice, but getting straight answers from Japan seems to be a completely different story...

Oh! Thank you. ;) :D But I think (and hope) that people realize I'm playing with a pre-production unit here.



That's not really tough to beat. The Pioneer people I'm talking to are really nice, but getting straight answers from Japan seems to be a completely different story...

Levesque, Does 'Pure Direct' work over component also?

Levesque, Does 'Pure Direct' work over component also?

Anyone else know?

Hi Tony,
If I`m correct "Pure Direct" is for the audio only and has no effect on video quality.
I have the CLD-99 and the DV-09 . both have "Pure Direct" , and the video board is "turned off" , but , ONLY when you use the analog out.
This also activates the "Legato Link Conversion" or thr "Pro" version of same.
Pioneer uses some very high quality D-A converters , and have always been praised for there sound.
I use digital connections on both LD & DVD so I don`t use it that much , BUT , I have tried it and if you own "bright speakers" (like Boston A`s) , it does provide a nice , almost "tube" like sound.
I hope this helps !
Gary

Hi Tony,
If I`m correct "Pure Direct" is for the audio only and has no effect on video quality.
I have the CLD-99 and the DV-09 . both have "Pure Direct" , and the video board is "turned off" , but , ONLY when you use the analog out.
This also activates the "Legato Link Conversion" or thr "Pro" version of same.
Pioneer uses some very high quality D-A converters , and have always been praised for there sound.
I use digital connections on both LD & DVD so I don`t use it that much , BUT , I have tried it and if you own "bright speakers" (like Boston A`s) , it does provide a nice , almost "tube" like sound.
I hope this helps !
Gary

Thanks. What I am referring to is the "Direct" mode that outputs unprocessed 480i over HDMI. Was wondering if it also did this over component.

Thanks. What I am referring to is the "Direct" mode that outputs unprocessed 480i over HDMI. Was wondering if it also did this over component.AK47 was asking about sending YCbCr from a 969avi (Euro model) via HDMI because he can only get RGB 4:4:4 to work. Maybe the 59avi (and 969avi) will only send RGB via HDMI and the new "Direct mode" will send the YCbCr as it comes from the MPEG decoder, which it really should be doing now. If this is the case, it's really a "bug fix". :) Although, the design of the 59avi is over two years old, it may be always converting to RGB before it gets to the HDMI chip. This could possibly explain why the 59avi didn't have the HDMI->DVI BTB and WTW clipping bug. When the 59avi came out there were very few HDMI input displays, so I guess it probably wasn't a bad decision. If it did have the clipping bug, the "bashing" would have been endless, especially from the Denon fan-boy camp. :) Does anybody know for sure if they have gotten YCbCr from the 59avi HDMI output?

Also, the conversion of YCbCr to RGB is a simple transform. I doubt anybody would be able to see the difference. However, if you are feeding the output to a scaler, and the scaler does its thing in YCbCr, then it would have to convert the RGB back to YCbCr. As I said before, I don't know if this is an "identity transform" or not. And if the player can do 10bit YCbCr (something upsamples before output), you don't want RGB anywhere near it. :)

larry

AK47 was asking about sending YCbCr from a 969avi (Euro model) via HDMI because he can only get RGB 4:4:4 to work. Maybe the 59avi (and 969avi) will only send RGB via HDMI and the new "Direct mode" will send the YCbCr as it comes from the MPEG decoder, which it really should be doing now. If this is the case, it's really a "bug fix". :) Although, the design of the 59avi is over two years old, it may be always converting to RGB before it gets to the HDMI chip. This could possibly explain why the 59avi didn't have the HDMI->DVI BTB and WTW clipping bug. When the 59avi came out there were very few HDMI input displays, so I guess it probably wasn't a bad decision. If it did have the clipping bug, the "bashing" would have been endless, especially from the Denon fan-boy camp. :) Does anybody know for sure if they have gotten YCbCr from the 59avi HDMI output?

Also, the conversion of YCbCr to RGB is a simple transform. I doubt anybody would be able to see the difference. However, if you are feeding the output to a scaler, and the scaler does its thing in YCbCr, then it would have to convert the RGB back to YCbCr. As I said before, I don't know if this is an "identity transform" or not. And if the player can do 10bit YCbCr (something upsamples before output), you don't want RGB anywhere near it. :)

larry

I think you are on something here. When the 59AVi first came out it
had DVI which is 8 bit RGB and I bet they are sending RGB DVI over
HDMI with the 59AVi... They simply substituted the output...

I agree it is a simply color space conversion but can and does introduce some
error into the signal path.

When the 59AVi first came out it
had DVI which is 8 bit RGB and I bet they are sending RGB DVI over
HDMI with the 59AVi... They simply substituted the output...




When was this?

When was this?

Maybe I am wrong but I thought the 59AVi first shipped with a DVI output? No?

I'm fairly sure the 59avi had HDMI its whole life cycle so far. From their track record, it would be very unlike Pio to make a hardware change mid product cycle. Firmware changes were almost kept secret. :)

larry

I'm fairly sure the 59avi had HDMI its whole life cycle so far. From their track record, it would be very unlike Pio to make a hardware change mid product cycle. Firmware changes were almost kept secret. :)

larry

I could of sworn it didn't have HDMI but can't find any information that suggests otherwise...

You are probably right...

I know someone who bought the 59avi when it was first released. It had HDMI.

:)

Could someone explain why is 480i over HDMI important ?

I'd think 480p/720p/1080i would be more preferable..

Regards,
Jose

FYI: DVDs are digital 480i native. A "raw" data output would necessarily be 480i digital, enabling minimal/superior outboard processing with a DVDO, Faroudja or similar unit. The performance of that combination is likely to be state-of-the-art for DVD. DVD players that output 480i digital are very rare, or created through the addition of SDI ports. This is parallel to using a CD transport as a reading device only, and then an outboard DAC for the processing, as many audiophiles do.

This is parallel to using a CD transport as a reading device only, and then an outboard DAC for the processing, as many audiophiles do.

It's more like using an MP3 player with a digital output. There's no way to plug in a different mpeg decoder, so you're stuck with the one that's built into the player. A true raw output would be more like the firewire output on HDTV boxes, where the decoding as well as the D/A conversion can be performed by an external box.

--
Steve

It's more like using an MP3 player with a digital output. There's no way to plug in a different mpeg decoder, so you're stuck with the one that's built into the player. A true raw output would be more like the firewire output on HDTV boxes, where the decoding as well as the D/A conversion can be performed by an external box.

--
SteveWouldn't that be nice! :) A DVD "player" with only 2 firewire outputs. One for video and one for audio.

larry

FYI: DVDs are digital 480i native. A "raw" data output would necessarily be 480i digital, enabling minimal/superior outboard processing with a DVDO, Faroudja or similar unit. The performance of that combination is likely to be state-of-the-art for DVD. DVD players that output 480i digital are very rare, or created through the addition of SDI ports. This is parallel to using a CD transport as a reading device only, and then an outboard DAC for the processing, as many audiophiles do.


So, if I use a 79Avi, through a 74Txi, into a PRO-1130HD, would I get the best PQ using 480i? I don't plan on using anything external to process the signal. I know it may be subjective, but I want the best possible PQ. My newbie mind thinks a progressive setting would be best, but I'm not sure. I also plan to use HDMI cables all the way.

Thanks for any help.

Pooper asked:
Does anybody know for sure if they have gotten YCbCr from the 59avi HDMI output?


I´ve had my 868avi for a year now. Via HDMI, you have the option of outputting YCbCr or RGB. You have to go to the HDMI Colour Adjust menu: Standard is RGB, Enhanced is YCbCr. When I calibrated my DVD and FP with the DVE dvd, I saw no difference in quality, but I opted for RGB as I guessed that the sooner that conversion done is the better (well, I know the 868avi scaler is better than the Faroudja in the TW-500). I send a straight 720p signal to the TW-500 for films (I don´t like the Faroudja deinterlacer-scaler for films; it sucks up the colour).



Also, the conversion of YCbCr to RGB is a simple transform. I doubt anybody would be able to see the difference. However, if you are feeding the output to a scaler, and the scaler does its thing in YCbCr, then it would have to convert the RGB back to YCbCr. As I said before, I don't know if this is an "identity transform" or not. And if the player can do 10bit YCbCr (something upsamples before output), you don't want RGB anywhere near it.

Well, now you have me thinking about this again. May be I´ll try the Enhanced Colour (YCbCr) option again. It could be an improvement if my FP works in YCbCr and it is no use to feed it with a "final" RGB signal? The "Enhanced" option seems to suggest some kind of upsamling. But I doubt it, I suspect the FP prefers a RGB progressive signal so that it doesn´t have to do any proccessing.

In any case. the YCbCr option seems to be the way to go with the new DV-79, as they say it has full 10 bits proccessing and 4:4:4 upsampling. But are you sure that 10 bits YCbCr is really better (closer to what´s encoded in the DVD) than 8 bits RGB? Isn´t YCbCr simply a compression method?

Thanks for the info, Joaquin. DVDs are encoded with 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0. This was done to keep disc space to a minimum as a tradeoff for higher chroma ranges. The MPEG decoder will upsample the 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 (this is where the Chroma Upsampling Error - CUE- occurs if the decoder has the bug). I don't know if any MPEG decoders upsample to 10bit or not - there's not much need for it since the data is on the disc - except maybe for the Cr data. Processing "down" the road makes more sense to be done in 10-12bits and output 10bits. Outputting 12bits per component wouldn't make much sense because you really only have 8bits to start with.

Converting between RGB and YCbCr is an identity transform if you do "real" math - not fixed point math. So converting back and forth would change some info by "1" here an there and probably not be noticeable. I believe most components do processing using YCbCr. A lot of this has to do with output methods. Composite, s-video, and component can all be used with YCbCr data. VGA requires a conversion to RGB. And nowadays DVI, also.

larry

Pardon a very simple question: If one were to use the 79avi in the most simple-minded way--outputting 1080i via HDMI into one of the new 1080p dlp's--would one expect the video to be significantly different from that given by the 59avi used this way?

I suspect the -79 will give better results because of 10 bits proccessing and 4:4:4 cr upsampling. But I think Levesque has said that the difference is subtle, not big. I think I am keeping my 59/868 for a year more. I don´t mind much about the audio improvements in the -79, as I have another dedicated player for music (Philips SACD1000, far better audio player). Well, may be if my SACD1000 dies soon...

Any input on this would be very welcome. I'm trying to locate a good source for the DV-79AVi. Magnolia Hi-Fi shows it on their computer, but is pricing them at $1199. The manager there did not have any idea if he could get one of the silver models for me -- he tried to convince me they would only be made in black.

Has anyone else been able to get a confirmed order placed for one of the silver units; also, who is a good online source for these players that would also be a certified Pioneer dealer?

Thanks in advance...

Any input on this would be very welcome. I'm trying to locate a good source for the DV-79AVi. Magnolia Hi-Fi shows it on their computer, but is pricing them at $1199. The manager there did not have any idea if he could get one of the silver models for me -- he tried to convince me they would only be made in black.

Has anyone else been able to get a confirmed order placed for one of the silver units; also, who is a good online source for these players that would also be a certified Pioneer dealer?

Thanks in advance...

I pre-paid for one at the Pleasant Hill Magnolia for $999.99. I also purchased the Audioquest 1394-3 and HDMI-3 cables to connect it to my 74Txvi reciever....can't wait to get it!! :D

I pre-paid for one at the Pleasant Hill Magnolia for $999.99....can't wait to get it!! :DThanks -- I'll have to discuss this with the manager at the Santa Rosa Magnolia, who just quoted me $1199 about 2 hours ago...

This sounds like its going to be a really great player. After my very positive experiences with both Pioneers dvd recorder and most recently the 588, I'm really looking forward to hearing how this baby performs.

Is the silver U.S. version 100% confirmed, or is it just a rumor at this point?

Kai

Just one correction to my first post about the 868avi: last night I checked it again, and my memory had betrayed me: The HDMI Enhanced Colour option IS the RGB one. The HDMI Standard Colour option outputs YCbCr.

So what is the 79avi going to do differently? Newer components for one - MPEG decoder and deinterlacer, IIRC. Yes?

larry

Just one correction to my first post about the 868avi: last night I checked it again, and my memory had betrayed me: The HDMI Enhanced Colour option IS the RGB one. The HDMI Standard Colour option outputs YCbCr.

RGB enhanced just set pc levels and RGB standard set video levels. Setting rgb to enhanced will make your image darker at the sake of detail, unless your projector is set for RGB enhanced levels.

The 868i/59avi Does send out either ycbcr or RGB. with my PJ if i set it to RGB all goes green as it only supports HDMI YUV digital, set to yuv and the pic is normal.
This applies to the interlaced and progressive output via HDMI.

RGB enhanced just set pc levels and RGB standard set video levels. Setting rgb to enhanced will make your image darker at the sake of detail, unless your projector is set for RGB enhanced levels.

Beware there is a confussion lurking there. The 868avi doesn´t give you the option between RGB-Video and RGB-PC. Its HDMI "Enhanced Colour" option is simply RGB-Video as opposed to HDMI "Normal Colour" which is ycbcr. The format is the same: Video, not PC levels. The only change is that the 868avi takes charge of the unavoidable ycbcr to RGB conversion, saving the pj from doing that work later by itself (and my reasoning is that the 868avi seems to have much better computing power to have this done correctly than my pj).
HDMI "Enhanced Colour" through the 868avi is RGB-Video, not RGB-PC (the info menu at the TW-500 informs about this). It certainly allows passthrough of btb and wtw (I have to set my TW-500 pj to "Expanded"). Contrary to what has been said about other pjs, with the TW-500, DVI-Expanded means Video levels, not pc levels (this option gives btb, wtw; while DVI-Normal blocks btb and wtw). If the 868avi HDMI "Enhanced Colour" and the TW-500 DVI-Expanded options were pc levels, I wouldn´t have wtw and btb, but I have checked all the possible combinations time and again, and this is the option that gives me a wider dynamic range to begin with (the widest dynamic signal including btb and wtw that I can see with the DVE callibration dvd, to allow for perfect calibration).
So I assume I am not taking any detail away; all the contrary.

..hmm interesting.. I had thought the Enhanced/Standard are really PC/Video levels, at least when it outputs RGB. I had a DVI PJ that only accepts RGB, and it has an option to say Video/PC. The pio "Standard" + PJ "Video", and pio "Enhanced" + PJ "PC" look almost identical. (I was unable to notice any difference.)

With my other HDMI PJ, there is no option to select either RGB/YPbPr nor Video/PC. And the only settings that work well is Standard. Neither the PJ nor the dvdp shows whether it's RGB or YPbPr, I really don't know in HDMI what it outputs. (btw my PJ does not support 480i over HDMI )

to gandley: I think u r the first to confirm the pio does YCbCr in HDMI 480i. This will be *very* interesting for external video processor users. Actually I'm not aware any PJ that takes 480i HDMI. ( I know I'm just ignorant :) ) Just curious, what PJ r u using ?

re: enhanced vs standard and BTB etc.

A good way to make sure BTB is being passed is to lower the brightness on the player (if it has an adjustment). If you keep seeing the BTB pattern (with appropriate brightness adjust "up" on the target) with each "tick" down in brightness, then BTB is not being clipped. If for some reason the "neutral" PQ settings as indicated on the menu really raise luma by one, then the BTB pattern will be just "black" and would be seen with PC and video levels. Forcing the BTB pattern to be "blacker" will make sure real BTB data is being output (hopefully).

larry

Thanks -- I'll have to discuss this with the manager at the Santa Rosa Magnolia, who just quoted me $1199 about 2 hours ago...


Did they give you an ETA?

Did they give you an ETA?No, they wouldn't give a date...

I called the Magnolia in Bellevue, WA today and was told "end of November". When I asked for a price he hesitated then said pointedly, "it LISTS for $1199", which I interpreted as implying that there would be room for negotiation.

End of November is disappointing (if correct).

First i had a sim2 300xtra and i now have an optoma H79.
I dont have my 868i(59avi) anymore and have been using an S97 and with that if you are usimg RGB out and select enhanced, that sets Pc levels. standard sets to video levels. I dont remember the 868i being any different.
I have the 989i (79avi) on order now and will be pairing it up with ascaler with the Interlaced signal from HDMI.

Beware there is a confussion lurking there. The 868avi doesn´t give you the option between RGB-Video and RGB-PC. Its HDMI "Enhanced Colour" option is simply RGB-Video as opposed to HDMI "Normal Colour" which is ycbcr. The format is the same: Video, not PC levels. The only change is that the 868avi takes charge of the unavoidable ycbcr to RGB conversion, saving the pj from doing that work later by itself (and my reasoning is that the 868avi seems to have much better computing power to have this done correctly than my pj).
.
http://www.fourcc.org/fccyvrgb.php
QUOTE:
Y is [16,235] (220 steps) and the valid ranges for Cr and Cb are [16,239] (235 steps) These are normalized ranges and when the data is used, 16 is added to Y and 128 is added from Cr and Cb to de-normalize them. The reason for this is that control and colorburst information is stored in the components along with the luminence and chromiance data which is why the full range of [0,255] is not used. There is no "rumor" about this being correct. It is a defined standard for YCrCb video. I wouldn't be surprised if certain PC programs are using a variant where the entire range of [0,255] is used but technically it is not YCrCb. If you use YCrCb for video purposes, its probably going to be CCIR 601 compliant. I don't know why you would use YCrCb for anything else as many rendering operations are extremely expensive to do in the non-linear YCrCb color space relative to the linear RGB color space.

thomas

I don't know why you would use YCrCb for anything else as many rendering operations are extremely expensive to do in the non-linear YCrCb color space relative to the linear RGB color space. Because DVDs are encoded in YCbCr. Deinterlacers and most scalers work in YCbCr. Although there's no actual rendering done because the video is already defined by the DVD. PCs are different. PC graphics never heard of YCbCr unless it has something to do with DVD playback and then it's converted to RGB for output.

larry

I don't believe the 59avi has an audio delay feature, does it (i.e., for adjusing lip sync in the display)? Does anyone know whether or not the 79avi does?

Do any DVD players have an audio delay feature? I guess some must, especially if using the player to decode DD/DTS. I don't recall seeing this on any of the 5 or 6 DVD player's I've owned.

larry

Edit: My question answered. :) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593510

Don't matter....just get yourself one of these for a little over $200. :)
http://www.felston.com/

PooperScooper -
Completely off-topic now that the vodka is setting in.......

Leominster has some of the BEST off-road trails for motor-sickle ridin in the whole U.S. of A. - really an elite region of the country.

Sorry, for the digression but your location just brought back SWEET memories of past days of glory. :)

PooperScooper -
Completely off-topic now that the vodka is setting in.......



What are you doing outside of the Qualia thread anyway?!

:p

brt and umr are trying to convince me to buy a 59avi !

And now that I've been informed by the Sony people that their Blu-ray machines are to be postponed from their March 6 debut (as I originally recorded ON MY HOME THREAD :p ) to a "March/Aprilish" rollout to coincide with PlayStation stuff..................

Well I thought I would just come slummin over here to see what all the commotion is all about.................

And to ask Levesque if he also has an Algolith Dragonfly that he's runnin the 79avi into............ that he hasn't yet told us about.

P.S.
Plus, I'm still tryin to catch up to Rogo, and I ran out of things to say on the 006 thread this evening so, I'm broadening my horizons. :eek:

brt and umr are trying to convince me to buy a 59avi !

And now that I've been informed by the Sony people that their Blu-ray machines are to be postponed from their March 6 debut (as I originally recorded ON MY HOME THREAD :p ) to a "March/Aprilish" rollout to coincide with PlayStation stuff..................

Well I thought I would just come slummin over here to see what all the commotion is all about.................

And to ask Levesque if he also has an Algolith Dragonfly that he's runnin the 79avi into............ that he hasn't yet told us about.

P.S.
Plus, I'm still tryin to catch up to Rogo, and I ran out of things to say on the 006 thread this evening so, I'm broadening my horizons. :eek:

You Go Dude!

:p

BTW, brt and umr are very smart individuals!

:)

I hope they don't gouge prices on the silver edition. I might get one of those.


Same price on both colors....

Chris Walker

BTW, brt and umr are very smart individuals!

:)

No lie. UMR calibrated my Optoma H78DC3 a month or so ago. I only wish I calibrated it with my 59AVI instead of my S97. I may have to get him back up when I get my 79AVI. I'll be moving my 59 back down with the 56TXI & Pioneer 5050 Plasma in the Den.

Patrick,
I'm shootin you a PM now(in case you don't get the alert from the forum- which doesn't always work for me.....I think it's an Artwood conspiracy)

YGPM back.

BTW, brt and umr are very smart individuals! :)We're not worthy...
:D

First i had a sim2 300xtra and i now have an optoma H79.
I dont have my 868i(59avi) anymore and have been using an S97 and with that if you are usimg RGB out and select enhanced, that sets Pc levels. standard sets to video levels. I dont remember the 868i being any different.
I have the 989i (79avi) on order now and will be pairing it up with ascaler with the Interlaced signal from HDMI.

I am using HDMI out, and my FP tells me exactly what kind of signal it is receiving. If I use HDMI Enhanced Colour, the FP recognizes the signal as RGB-Video (NOT RGB-PC!). If it were RGB-PC, there would be no wtw or btb, but certainly there is.

Notice I am not using the HDMI Enhanced Memory setting. As you know, the preset memories settings are "hidden" and can´t be edited. I am using the Enhanced Colour option with Memory 1 (IRE 7.5, White Level 2 notches left: That gives the wider dynamic range). As somebody stated long ago in the DV-79 thread, even if IRE has nothing to do with Digital levels, for some reason the IRE 7.5 seems to output greater dynamic range than IRE O through the this machine´s HDMI output).

I am using HDMI out, and my FP tells me exactly what kind of signal it is receiving. If I use HDMI Enhanced Colour, the FP recognizes the signal as RGB-Video (NOT RGB-PC!). If it were RGB-PC, there would be no wtw or btb, but certainly there is.

Notice I am not using the HDMI Enhanced Memory setting. As you know, the preset memories settings are "hidden" and can´t be edited. I am using the Enhanced Colour option with Memory 1 (IRE 7.5, White Level 2 notches left: That gives the wider dynamic range). As somebody stated long ago in the DV-79 thread, even if IRE has nothing to do with Digital levels, for some reason the IRE 7.5 seems to output greater dynamic range than IRE O through the this machine´s HDMI output). That's right, IRE shouldn't be an option for digital video data. Sending the decoded MPEG data that's on the disc, possibly deinterlaced and scaled is all that's necessary. One of the settings, maybe both, are modifying the data that was put on the the DVD - the antithesis of why we spend the $$$ and geek out calibratiing and such trying to display what is actually on the DVD as it was intended to be seen.

larry

I have a toshiba 52hm95 dlp tv. and I am looking for a great dvd player for it. I dont believe that this tv has the best upscaler so I will depend on the upscaler on the dvd player. I want the 79 since the 59 is no longer carried in magnolia in my best buy I was wondering if I should go with the 79avi. I have a samsung HD850 and I think it sucks. I can get the 59avi transfered from another store but I was wondering if I should wait for the 79 to come in? also whats the date when these are coming in. My magnolia just grand opened today and I love working there.

cubenruben: I think one can get some great deals on 59avi's now (I just did, at my friendly Magnolia), and I believe the improvements given by the 79avi are modest.

I am an employee there so I dopubt it that cost went down alot. but I will try to get one from another store if I have to. SO what would you recommend for upconversion? dvd player or my TV?

Try both and see what looks the best. Usually, it's the player though.

Home cinema choice a UK home theatre mag has just done a review of the the 989avi (79avi). and it scored 5 stars across the board out of five.

For video quote "in action in the upscaled mode(i found 720p to work best with my test rig) the 989 is every bit as accomplished as hoped. Its greatest achievement is its breath taking clarity, based around two key components: Fine detail response and suppression of video noise.
The 989 has stunning amounts of texture, picking up say, weaves in an actors suits that i dont ever recall seeing before. Whats more, the detailing carries over into dark picture areas, and helps paint a solid three dimemsional world that looks better the bigger screen you feed it into too.
With regards to noise suppression the 989 delivers edges that are free of haloes, ghosting, shimmering or jaggedness; practically no dot crawl and no flickering from any electrical interference.
The 989s colour response is also outstanding. the vividness of tones go with class leading colour graduations and some of the most authentic tones in the business - all with barly a trace of chroma noise. Motion meanwhile was smooth and clear throuout my evalution."

and sound quality

"sound quality is very good too. movie soundtracks are deliverd with precision and sterling dynamics but its with SACD and DVD-A and humble CD playback that the 989 shines through. the expressiveness of its upper frequencys screams Fidelity with every note; the creation of a 5.1 channel soundstage is achieved with seamless and gorgeous precision, bass is rich rounded but utterly controlled and the mid-range is perfecrly balanced. I got best results from the i-link port, but even switching to the standard phono line outs failed to dint my enthusiasm.
Audio jitter measures an excellent 190ps."

Home cinema choice a UK home theatre mag has just done a review of the the 989avi (79avi). and it scored 5 stars across the board out of five.

For video quote "in action in the upscaled mode(i found 720p to work best with my test rig) the 989 is every bit as accomplished as hoped. Its greatest achievement is its breath taking clarity, based around two key components: Fine detail response and suppression of video noise.
The 989 has stunning amounts of texture, picking up say, weaves in an actors suits that i dont ever recall seeing before. Whats more, the detailing carries over into dark picture areas, and helps paint a solid three dimemsional world that looks better the bigger screen you feed it into too.
With regards to noise suppression the 989 delivers edges that are free of haloes, ghosting, shimmering or jaggedness; practically no dot crawl and no flickering from any electrical interference.
The 989s colour response is also outstanding. the vividness of tones go with class leading colour graduations and some of the most authentic tones in the business - all with barly a trace of chroma noise. Motion meanwhile was smooth and clear throuout my evalution."

and sound quality

"sound quality is very good too. movie soundtracks are deliverd with precision and sterling dynamics but its with SACD and DVD-A and humble CD playback that the 989 shines through. the expressiveness of its upper frequencys screams Fidelity with every note; the creation of a 5.1 channel soundstage is achieved with seamless and gorgeous precision, bass is rich rounded but utterly controlled and the mid-range is perfecrly balanced. I got best results from the i-link port, but even switching to the standard phono line outs failed to dint my enthusiasm.
Audio jitter measures an excellent 190ps."


Did they make any comparisons to the 59AVi ?

No they did not, which is a shame as i was hoping for an A/B comparison.

No they did not, which is a shame as i was hoping for an A/B comparison.

That would have been very valuable...

A friend and I were checking-out A/V goodies today and we were quite surprised to see the DV-79AVi was in stock; we weren't expecting it in Canada till November or December. I rushed over to my preferred Pio retailer and ordered one along with a 74 receiver. I can't wait to hook these babies up. :D

subversive,
Please , don`t forget to let us know what you think of them !!
Are you getting a "silver" 79AVi ?
Good luck !
Gary

Sweet.

subversive,
Please , don`t forget to let us know what you think of them !!
Are you getting a "silver" 79AVi ?
Good luck !
Gary
Sure thing, Gary. Hopefully I'll have them by next weekend. :D

Both units will be badass black :cool:. (I'm not a huge fan of the silver trend)

After trying the 79AVi for a full month, I just sold my 59AVi for a really good price, and I'm now waiting for my 79AVi next week.

For me the 79AVi was a step up in all aspects, video, audio and build quality.

I pre-paid for one at the Pleasant Hill Magnolia for $999.99. I also purchased the Audioquest 1394-3 and HDMI-3 cables to connect it to my 74Txvi reciever....can't wait to get it!! :D


WireWorld HDMI Starlight 5 and Stralight 5-squared are better for the money then Audioquest. Same goes for DVI.

After trying the 79AVi for a full month, I just sold my 59AVi for a really good price, and I'm now waiting for my 79AVi next week.

For me the 79AVi was a step up in all aspects, video, audio and build quality.

Levesque - are you going to post one comprehensive comparison with some specifics? I've been trying to follow a few threads but I'm only seeing generalizations. However, I do appreciate you posting your thoughts thus far, thanks :)

(Also - I may have asked before, but you didn't happen to run a HQV test disc through it did you? If you have a HQV disc that is.)

I finally found it on the computer at magnolai only issue is it is listed as the dv75avi. not the 79. both the same price at 1k and both not out yet so I was wondering if the computer is just wrong or is it the 75 and there is a new model coming out listed as the 75. I know this must be it bc it has a brand new sku and it will be coming in 1 week to 2 weeks. but I priced the 59 and the 75 with employee price and they both came out at the same price so i will be going for the 75 if it is the 79

Any word when this dvd player will be available. I have only seen one vendor with in on line for a pre order. Any websites have this listed?

Same price on both colors....

Chris Walker

That's good to hear. But, somehow, I expect limited availability on the Silver Edition 79AVi will lead to lessened discounting, which in my book equates to price gouging. But, that's a dealer thing, not within Pioneer's control, right? :D

I been really thiunking about getting this player. I currently hate my samsung hd850 and will tell everyone to stay away from it. Will there be a noticable difference upgrading to this dvd player with my DLP tv? I have a toshiba 52hm95 and the smasung dvd player is kinda grainy and colors dont seem to stand out and darks are way to dark. I played around with this dvd player and color settinsa and DVE and still I dont like it. will there be a big difference between these to in video quality?

Can the 79AVI output 10bit ycbcr via hdmi ?

FYI:
I have owned a few "Elite" products;
PD-65 CD player ( the best cd player ever made - IMHO ! )
CLD-99 LD player ( still in service )
VSX-99 Reciever ( not great but good , traded in for DSP-A3090 , traded for DSP-A1/G )
DV-09 DVD player ( still in service )
I guess what I`m say`n is you realy can`t go to wrong with any "Elite" product . although I have to admit , there "new-stuff" is no where near the quality of the older stuff that had the "Urushi" finish and Rosewood ( albeit partical board covered in vinyl :( ).
The build quality was superb , I`m still a big fan and am waiting with baited breath for the new DV-79AVi :D
As far as it being better than a Samsung :confused: , of course :)
IMO- The perfect 20th Anniversary "Elite" product would be going "old school" and make it about 40lb`s worth of build quality.
But , I`m sure that the "79Avi" will live up to it`s pedigree !!
Gary ;)

Any word when this dvd player will be available. I have only seen one vendor with in on line for a pre order. Any websites have this listed?


Just did a Froogle search and one place says their an authorized dealer with a nice price. May have to give them a call tomorrow.

Hmmm...according to:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/two/0,,2076_83644739_277297187,00.html

They're not authorized (unless I'm blind). That stinks.

Hmmm...according to:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/two/0,,2076_83644739_277297187,00.html

They're not authorized (unless I'm blind). That stinks.
Even that list is just for mainstream Pioneer stuff. I'm not sure if there are *any* dealers authorized to sell Pioneer Elite products online.

--
Steve

Just did a Froogle search and one place says their an authorized dealer with a nice price. May have to give them a call tomorrow.

Alan,

I just sent you a PM.

Mike

I did the same search and it appears to be a very attractive price from a auth. dealer ( I hope ).

So when will this player be available.

Actually Custom Sound CO does seem to be authorized.

In the dealer locator page ... choose Elite DVD player + Model 59 AVI and zip code = 84115 ...

The 79AVi was already available in Canada 2 weeks ago in limited quantity. All units were sold really fast. Another bigger batch should be available up here at the end of november.

Actually Custom Sound CO does seem to be authorized.

In the dealer locator page ... choose Elite DVD player + Model 59 AVI and zip code = 84115 ...
They're an authorized dealer but not an authorized INTERNET dealer. From Pioneer's website:

"Pioneer offers a manufacturer's limited warranty for products purchased on the Internet only if purchased from its authorized Internet dealers ... Pioneer does NOT offer a manufacturer's limited warranty or rebates or other special offers for products purchased on the Internet from anyone who is not an Authorized Internet Dealer."

--
Steve

True ... But cant we just say we visited Utah and picked it up :)

Good Point!

just curious, no one seems to mention the Viterbi decoder in the 79avi. It's a very interesting error correction process. (do a google on "Viterbi") I'm not sure if the current 59 has this. The Hifi Choice review mentioned exceptional noise reduction. I hope this is part of the reason.

just curious, no one seems to mention the Viterbi decoder in the 79avi. It's a very interesting error correction process. (do a google on "Viterbi") I'm not sure if the current 59 has this. The Hifi Choice review mentioned exceptional noise reduction. I hope this is part of the reason.

Panasonic/DVC PRO use this, and I agree it's quite elegant, and effective error correction!

LEVESQUE,
Do you have any "inside info" as to Tweeter Ect. carring it soon?
I can only buy it at Tweeter and they are not showing it in there system :confused:
Also , would prefer "Silver" to black.
I would like to pass this ? to anyone that can help , many thanks :D
Gary

jedi29

I'm sorry. I'm in contact with Pioneer Canada only.

A local dealer (thanks Mike) told me last week of the month is when they're expecting shipment. Is this the timeframe others are hearing as well? You Canadians are a lucky bunch. :)

"The end of November" seems to be the common refrain.

okay today had a quick look at the new pio. (the asian/european version 989avi)

I brought the HQV test disc with me.... and I'm a bit disappointed to see the Film Detail test still has the strange pass/fail behaviour. i.e. as soon as u popup the OSD, it fails. But if u remove the disc and put in again, it will pass. The 59 will need a on/off to get it back. So in this regard it improves... but...

The jaggy test, well, looks the same as the 59. Similarly the noise reduction test.

For the chroma bug, it's definitely better than the 59 , as some flickering I used to see is not there any more. So what it claims on the chroma correction is definitely something real.

Under HDMI, now u can select RGB, RGB Expanded, Component, Component 12 Bit. (The 59 only has Standard/Enhanced) I didn't manage to find the "Pure Direct" option.

Overall the image on the 50" plasma is awesome. (but so was the 59 :) ). A step up for sure (chroma, colors), but may not be worthwhile for an upgrade for me...

btw I saw lots of boxes around. I'm sure it will show up everywhere real soon.

A local dealer (thanks Mike) told me last week of the month is when they're expecting shipment. Is this the timeframe others are hearing as well? You Canadians are a lucky bunch. :)

Not really, I went to my favorite dealer this morning to get a DV79AVi but all their stock were sold out. Next shipment was supposed to be on Nov 16th. I was able to eyeball the 79 AVi though and it did weigh heavier than the 59 AVi. The DVD Tray is still made of flimsy plastic though... I was hoping it would be made of something more substantail for the price.

Next canadian shipment will be on novenber 16th, but dealers will receive them 3-4 days after.

Those players are selling like hot cakes. If you want one, you need to reserve it.

Pure Direct mode does not apply to the video out. The confusion on this is that it has been said there was still some small amount of processing done on the 480i HDMI out with the pio 59. Its now believed that this has been fixed for the 79avi and that 480i HDMI is now passed with out processing (hence the Pure title is has been givin). You wont find a pure direct mode in the HDMI menu, you need to just look for the 480i output for HDMI and go with that to your scaler.

Listened and watched the DV-79Avi this morning for the first time, in comparison with the Marantz DV-7600.
Though I am a Marantz fan the DV-7600 looks and feels cheap compared to the Pioneer. The Pioneer is about twice the weight of the Marantz with nicer cosmetics, IMHO, than the 59. (I never liked the bevel on the top half of the front panel).
Was hard pressed to tell a difference in picture quality. Both looked great with the Desperado Superbit, both looked lousy with Stargate SG-1 Season 2.

On the audio side I expected the Marantz to shine. On the whole I was disappointed in comparison to the 79.
The bass on the Marantz was a little tighter, less muddy. But the high end was on the shrill side with the 7600 and the 79 had a better sense of depth.
FWIW the Marantz has been on the floor for awhile so it's presumably "broken in". The Pioneer had never been fired up before so it was better right out of the box.
Perhaps not a fair fight, after all the 79 is the top of the Elite line, the 7600 is second in command in the Marantz line up.
But the 79 retails for only $199 more than the Marantz here in Canada. It's a slam dunk for me. The only other potential options are the Denon 2910 (a lot less) or the 3910 (a lot more).

The dealer had stock, the other Elite dealer I visited did not but was in the middle of a renovation and expected stock this Thursday.

No offense to anyone from Canada, but why is this player showing up there already, and the Pioneer sales rep for the Magnolia in Danvers, MA says they won't have it till December? Again, no offense intended, but I think it's a fair question.

No offense to anyone from Canada, but why is this player showing up there already, and the Pioneer sales rep for the Magnolia in Danvers, MA says they won't have it till December? Again, no offense intended, but I think it's a fair question.

I suspect its probably a customs or FCC clearance issue...

No offense to anyone from Canada, but why is this player showing up there already, and the Pioneer sales rep for the Magnolia in Danvers, MA says they won't have it till December? Again, no offense intended, but I think it's a fair question.No doubt the Canadian distributor has bribed Pioneer management with back bacon and Molson, eh?
:D
Or, perhaps it's simply a matter of the US having more lawyers per square mile than our brothers to the north...
;)

Pure Direct mode does not apply to the video out. The confusion on this is that it has been said there was still some small amount of processing done on the 480i HDMI out with the pio 59. Its now believed that this has been fixed for the 79avi and that 480i HDMI is now passed with out processing (hence the Pure title is has been givin). You wont find a pure direct mode in the HDMI menu, you need to just look for the 480i output for HDMI and go with that to your scaler.

The 480i hdmi is a standard resolution this time , 720 x 480i . 480i can be selected between component (YCbCr),Component 12bits, RGB , Full RGB .

Listened and watched the DV-79Avi this morning for the first time, in comparison with the Marantz DV-7600.
Though I am a Marantz fan the DV-7600 looks and feels cheap compared to the Pioneer. The Pioneer is about twice the weight of the Marantz with nicer cosmetics, IMHO, than the 59. (I never liked the bevel on the top half of the front panel).
Was hard pressed to tell a difference in picture quality. Both looked great with the Desperado Superbit, both looked lousy with Stargate SG-1 Season 2.

On the audio side I expected the Marantz to shine. On the whole I was disappointed in comparison to the 79.
The bass on the Marantz was a little tighter, less muddy. But the high end was on the shrill side with the 7600 and the 79 had a better sense of depth.
FWIW the Marantz has been on the floor for awhile so it's presumably "broken in". The Pioneer had never been fired up before so it was better right out of the box.
Perhaps not a fair fight, after all the 79 is the top of the Elite line, the 7600 is second in command in the Marantz line up.
But the 79 retails for only $199 more than the Marantz here in Canada. It's a slam dunk for me. The only other potential options are the Denon 2910 (a lot less) or the 3910 (a lot more).

The dealer had stock, the other Elite dealer I visited did not but was in the middle of a renovation and expected stock this Thursday.

Have you compared it to the 9600?

Have you compared it to the 9600?

No, the dealer only had the 9500 which I didn't look or listen to. It's well over 2K up here and it's way over my limit (so is the 79 for that matter).

Besides, I was afraid I might like it ;)

No, the dealer only had the 9500 which I didn't look or listen to. It's well over 2K up here and it's way over my limit (so is the 79 for that matter).

Besides, I was afraid I might like it ;)

That pioneer does look good. It would have been nice if it did 1080p, other than that it is the player to beat for the money.

Hello,

I'm trying to decide between the Pioneer 79 and the Denon 3910. If cost were the same, which would you go with? My local Good Guys is having a going out of business sale and I can pick up the 3910 close to what the 79 will eventually retail for.

Trying to decide if I should go ahead and pick up the 3910 or wait for the 79.

Thanks,

Tae

Since I would personally go with the 59avi over the Denon 3910, I would have to assume that I would make the same decision with the 79avi.

Thanks Rob for the feedback. Do you mind telling me why you would personally go with the 59avi over the 3910? I currently have a Denon 3805 receiver. I like the thought of using Denon Link with the 3910. However, I have been reading on another AVS forum that it would be better to go with analog for SACD's and DVD-Audio's, which subtracts away from the attraction I was looking at the 3910.

Thanks again,

Tae

Well, I have to be honest and say that I did not do a direct sound comparison with the Denon and the hi rez audio formats. I did, however, do a direct comparison in terms of video.

Here is the link to my review (ignore the last several pages that went off course):

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=484316&perpage=20

Well, I just ordered a 79avi from a local dealer during their once a year sale event. It was a decent price, but damn I never thought I'd pay this much for a dvd player.

I hope it'll be worth it :)

I've been auditioning a demo 59avi for a few days now, and I've found that it has some edge enhancement over HDMI 720p that I can't get rid of. Also, I do miss the lack of jaggies on video-based material that my Denon 1920 provides. That said, the 59 provides a very natural, vibrant, and film-like picture that I am enjoying. If the 79 is an improvement I think I will be happy. For the amount of money it's a stretch, but I'd sell my first-born to avoid macroblocking.

Edit - For classification purposes, my display is a Toshiba MT700 projector throwing a 106" diag image. Seating is at about 13 ft screen to butt.

I decided against the 3910 for the 59AVi. Some of the criteria that went into my decision was that the 3910 still has a Faroudja chip that has macroblocking. It might be the best Denon yet for this, but it still has it with certain displays. Since then, I don't know the details, but I've seen mention of issues with a greenish tinge, and blacker than black. Don't know the details. The big thing for me was Denon's quality control and reliability. If you do just a little bit of searching, you'll see what I mean. Try "Denon" and "problem" or something. :)

I think the 59AVi came out about 6 months before the 3910. I have had the following Pio players: 414, 333, 05, 45a, and 47ai. I waited until the 3910 came out to directly compare it before I got the 59avi. On paper, I believe that the 3910 is a better player: Faroudja deinterlacer, better BM for DVD-A and SACD, better layer change, etc. Just that IMO their execution isn't so hot.

On paper, I believe that the 3910 is a better player: Faroudja deinterlacer, better BM for DVD-A and SACD, better layer change, etc. Just that IMO their execution isn't so hot.

Am I correct in assuming that BM is only an issue with multi channel DVD-A or SACD?
My interest lies in 2channel with those formats so I'm not worried about BM.
Having said that, does anyone know if the BM has been improved on the 79AVi?

This is the first I've heard of a green tinge with the 3910. I love my Hitachi 50VS810 but the greens can be prominent. Sounds to me like the 3910 with my set would a recipe for disaster.

I certainly had a green tinge problem with my Denon 2910 (before swapping it for the 59avi).

DV-989AVi now selling in Singapore! Gold version and Region Free

There is a dealer at Audiogon that supposedly has a few 79's at the end of this week for those looking.

You will have to do your own homework on if there authorized ect though.

I checked yesterday and he doesn't look authorized. At least, he's not on Pioneer's list of authorized internet dealers, or even brick and mortar dealers in his zip (07728).

He lives in the same zip as my mom...she could go scope him out :)

The price is interesting. Hope that's an example of what to expect (or less) when the unit is easy to acquire.
E

Speaking of price, here's my dilemma: 59AVi new for $800 from Magnolia right now (salesman offering discount) or 79AVi for $1000 whenever it shows up. What do you guys think?

I'd say wait, if you aren't in a hurry - I think you should be able to work a deal to get the 79avi a little cheaper than what you've listed. I just saved 15% off list by haggling after being offered 10% off list on the 79ai. Do you have any other Pio Elite dealers around to try besides Mangolia? I bet it will be cheaper than a grand online as well, but I could be wrong. :p

If the 79 gets rid of the ringing/edge enhancement I'm seeing over HDMI, and makes some other subtle improvements I think it'll be worth a minor price premium (100-200) over the 59. I'm guessing the audio improvements may make it worthwhile as well, but I'm not as well versed in the audio stuff.

If the 79 gets rid of the ringing/edge enhancement I'm seeing over HDMI,... You're claiming you get ee/ringing with a 59avi via HDMI? If so, you're the first person I've seen claim this. Interesting. Have you dinked with any of the PQ settings on the player?

larry

If the 79 gets rid of the ringing/edge enhancement I'm seeing over HDMI, and makes some other subtle improvements I think it'll be worth a minor price premium (100-200) over the 59. I'm guessing the audio improvements may make it worthwhile as well, but I'm not as well versed in the audio stuff.


Perhaps just a sharpness control issue or it is in the source?

You're claiming you get ee/ringing with a 59avi via HDMI? If so, you're the first person I've seen claim this. Interesting. Have you dinked with any of the PQ settings on the player?

larry

I'm the first one huh? Hmmm, I could be doing something wrong then.

I calibrated with Avia, and I did mess with the PQ settings to try to get rid of it, I think I tried both sharpness controls and detail. I used the basic settings from Carl in the 59avi thread to start from, btw.

For info: my display is a Toshiba MT700 HD2+ 720p front projector throwing a 106" diagonal 16:9 image on an Optoma Greywolf screen (you can get more info by checking out my webshots in my sig if you like).

I noticed it on both the Incredibles and on Gladiator - I've never noticed any on Gladiator before, and I can't recall ever seeing any on the Incredibles.

I'm going to do some more "critical" (sic) viewing tonight, so I will double-check my PJ settings as well.

Perhaps just a sharpness control issue or it is in the source?

That would be nice, I will do some more checking :) I wish I had my camera to take proof if I can't fix it.

Edit - are there any additional setup guides for tweaking the 59avi that I missed? I have seen Carls in the 59avi thread (okay I'll get around to some searching yeah yeah ;))

I just got and hooked up my Pioneer 79AVi today, my question is....

I can hear the DVD spinning on the inside of the machine from 10 feet away if everything is off or on mute, is this normal? because it is fairly audible and I cant see why a player like this one would do that when my old cheap DVD player didn't.

Whoa, where did you get yours from?

I know the 59avi I tried was very quiet, so I hope it's unusual...

I got it in Ottawa canada from stereoplus. I tried a few other DVD's and it seems to only be loud on Matrix Revolutions.

Very happy with it now...

I just got and hooked up my Pioneer 79AVi today, my question is....

I can hear the DVD spinning on the inside of the machine from 10 feet away if everything is off or on mute, is this normal? because it is fairly audible and I cant see why a player like this one would do that when my old cheap DVD player didn't.

That is not what I was waiting to hear :(
You must have a defetcive player , get another.
There is NO WAY that they should be loud, sure you might hear it a little.
I have had there PD-65 CD Player and you coun`t hear a thing.
That`s history , but still have CLD-99 LD and DV-09 DVD > The LD makes quite a bit of noise , but that an LD , however the DV-09 is still very quiet and it`s over 7 years old. It must be ( I hope ) a defect.
Tell me did you get Black or Silver ?
Best of luck,
Gary

Well that takes care of that , so much for links to the latest post LOL
Still I would like to know more , how about a review , nothing fancy , just what you like or dislike about the player , many thanks.
O- (again) Did you get Black or Silver
Have fun ,
Gary

I got it in black, I am not a big fan of silver.

The PQ and sound are amazing, very clean on my TV and system. I will write a review after I have had it for a while longer, I have only seen one movie on it and tested a few others.

Hi Collin,
Glad to hear that things are A-OK :)
Black ! Sure , that is a standard "Eilite" color :) To bad it`s not the old "Urushi" gloss black.
I will be looking to check one out myself ( Silver - I hope ! ), looking forward to a review , and thanks for the info so far :D
O__I wouldn`t play that "Matrix" disc in it any more , could be that the hole is slightly off center causing a wobble , best off buying a new one and save the old one for a coster !!
Gary ;)

I got it in black, I am not a big fan of silver.

The PQ and sound are amazing, very clean on my TV and system. I will write a review after I have had it for a while longer, I have only seen one movie on it and tested a few others.

Great! Congratulations on the purchase, I'm glad to hear you like it. I look forward to your impressions.

CollinViegas.

Your 79AVi is defective. I don't hear anything, no noise coming from mine. It's playing everything I throw at it since almost 2 months already, and without a hitch.

I know it's been asked ad infinitium but I'll try it again since I haven't seen a response.

What is the layer switch like? I'm debating dropping the $1k on it since my Denon 1600 went H03 on me and am making due with a Sammy 850.

Layer switch is a little bit, but not much, better then the 59AVi. It's disappointing, but for me it's not a problem. But I know that for some it is.

Let's say it's not a Denon 2900 in that regard.

This was posted over in the video processor forum by Madshi, and was just wondering if it has been confirmed by those the have the 79AVi. I need a player that will output 480i into a DVDO VP30, and am considering the Arcam players and this one. Anyone compared the sound between the two (I know many say the Arcam is one of the best musically)? Anyone know if the 480i from the 79AVi (based on the stuff below) should be better than 480i from Arcam?

jcg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since DVD and BD and HD-DVD are AFAIK all encoded in YCbCr 4:2:0, a transport via HDMI with 4:2:2 should be just fine, so we can use the 10bit or 12bit HDMI modes. At least that's how I understand it. Btw, the soon to come Pioneer DV-79AVi is said to support unprocessed 480i/576i with 10bit over HDMI 1.1 (directly from the MPEG decoder to HDMI). Sounds like a perfect fit for a video processor to me. Bye bye, expensive SDI-Mods.

Here are some more infos about supported HDMI formats:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=578801

Speaking of price, here's my dilemma: 59AVi new for $800 from Magnolia right now (salesman offering discount) or 79AVi for $1000 whenever it shows up. What do you guys think?
It all depends on what your priorities and needs are.

I suspect that when the Pio 79avi becomes widely available in the U.S., the 59avi will drop in price even more.

And on that note, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Pio 79avi drops in price once the Sony Blu-ray machines debut “Aprilish” of 2006.

And on that note, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Pio 79avi drops in price once the Sony Blu-ray machines debut “Aprilish” of 2006. Why would the 79avi price drop? Totally different player. Will the HD machines be universals? No. Will they output 480i via HDMI? Most likely not. Will they play SD DVDs as well as today's machines? We'll have to see.

larry

Why would the 79avi price drop?
Larry, because of the way the common man purchasing in the marketplace thinks.

If it’s High Def, shucks, its got to be better.

If I can buy me a High Def player for around 1K and a Pio 79avi player for around 1K…..- which do you think HE will buy? (unless, of course he already has a LARGE library of DVD’s at home).

jcg, the instruction manual is available for download from the Pioneer website. It should answer some of your questions.

The only technical spec that I see which is different between the 59avi and the 79avi (beside the weight) is that listed for the Video DAC: the 59's is 14-bit/216 MHz, and the 79's is 14-bit/108 MHz. Does anybody know whether one is better than the other?

Larry, because of the way the common man purchasing in the marketplace thinks.

If it’s High Def, shucks, its got to be better.

If I can buy me a High Def player for around 1K and a Pio 79avi player for around 1K…..- which do you think HE will buy? (unless, of course he already has a LARGE library of DVD’s at home).Agreed. But I don't think the common man will be buying HD-DVD players for quite a while. The common man isn't buying 59avi or 79avi too.

larry

Agreed. But I don't think the common man will be buying HD-DVD players for quite a while. The common man isn't buying 59avi or 79avi too.

larry
Perhaps this is a case of semantics or perhaps I’m wrong and it’s just wishful thinking as I’m probably going to purchase the 79avi or 59avi…..just not imminently.

So, allow me to rephrase, I think that alot of people that COMMONLY buy *the best* high-end products are NOT knowledgeable videophiles…….if only for the fact that in order to accrue such an income, they don’t have the time or willingness to stay so well-informed over such things that they consider trivial decision choices.

I think that there is a significant population out there with fat wallets that walk into their local B&M store and ask what is the best DVD player they carry? and the Pio 79avi will invariably come up as an answer at dealers that carry it. And they’ll buy it without a blink of an eye….either there, or run back home and google the best price on-line….and buy it with keystrokes.

So this warped logic goes on to speculate that come Aprilish 06, the above discussion will be modified somewhat……ala……
Mr. Fat Wallet – What’s the best goll-dang DVD player made?
Mr. Salesmen - Well for standard DVD’s it’s the Pio 79avi at a sales price of $990.
For new-fangled High Definition DVD players, we just got in the Sony Blu-ray at $1,000.
Mr. Fat Wallet – Well, as I consider myself a shrewd buyer that likes to stay on the “bleeding edge” of technology, I want the best DVD player showcasing the newest techo wizardry, so I’ll buy the High-Def player.

A little time will pass and there will be a *price adjustment* of the 79avi in order to move them.

At least that’s what I’m hoping……… ;)

But I don't think the common man will be buying HD-DVD players for quite a while.

larry
I wouldn’t be so sure about that, as there are plans to concurrently release one or possible two *more economical* versions as well as the “roughly” 1K model to allow the *common people* to join in on the party.

But I guess it depends on what one’s definition of “quite a while” is.

Levesque or anyone else who has one of these already, what do you think about audio with redbook CDs? Wondering how this player compares to an Onkyo SP1000 or a dedicated CD player?

I've got an Arcam CD player and the Onkyo DVD player didn't sound near as good as the dedicated CD player. Does the 79avi do well with 2 channel music?

The only technical spec that I see which is different between the 59avi and the 79avi (beside the weight) is that listed for the Video DAC: the 59's is 14-bit/216 MHz, and the 79's is 14-bit/108 MHz. Does anybody know whether one is better than the other?
The 59's 14-bit/216 is "better", but even 12-bit/108 is enough. 14-bit/108 is definately enough, think of 14/216 as "overkill". There are many other factors that determin quality, and from what we have heard the model 79 is better. (I've owned players with 10bit/54mhz ratings, and 12-bit/108 ratings, and also 12 bit/216......10/54 is a bit noisy, but from 12/108 on up the picture is awesomely clear, but that is only one aspect of a DVD players picture quality......in summary once the "pipe", meaning bandwidth is "big" enough, adding more won't help anything.)

What Arcam CD player do you have? I'm currently trying to figure out if the 79AVI, Arcam DV79 or Arcam decicated CD player + cheap HDMI DVD player (for video only) is the best option.

jcg

Levesque or anyone else who has one of these already, what do you think about audio with redbook CDs? Wondering how this player compares to an Onkyo SP1000 or a dedicated CD player?

I've got an Arcam CD player and the Onkyo DVD player didn't sound near as good as the dedicated CD player. Does the 79avi do well with 2 channel music?

What Arcam CD player do you have? I'm currently trying to figure out if the 79AVI, Arcam DV79 or Arcam decicated CD player + cheap HDMI DVD player (for video only) is the best option.

jcg

I'm in the same boat. I already have a decent Arcam CD only unit...the CD-82. I'm happy with it.
I know the financially wise choice will be a low end DVD player until the Hi-Rez formats sort themselves out.
But I have heard and seen the DV-79AVI and LOVE it. Plus it will do SACD and DVD-Audio.
What if we all sit here waiting and the Blue-Ray HD-DVD "war" becomes anticlimactic like hi-rez audio....neither format takes off.

I've got a CD33 and really, really like it. I'll probably pick up the 79avi and a lot of it's because the price of the 59avi is nearly identical.

I hope not but wonder if I'll use this player 5 years before getting a HD one? When do you think Netflix will have 10,000+ titles in HD? I won't get a HD player before then.

When do you think Netflix will have 10,000+ titles in HD?
BINGO!
Alan, most excellent observation.

I hope not but wonder if I'll use this player 5 years before getting a HD one? When do you think Netflix will have 10,000+ titles in HD? I won't get a HD player before then.

I have a fairly large DVD collection (should be well over 1000 before I buy my first next gen. disc). I don't think it will not be necessary to replace all those DVDs with the next generation disc. I have some cheap DVD players. I hoping the 79AVi will be the last one I buy.

I am an old guy who bought my first SVHS VCR 20 years ago. At that time everybody was saying that video stores would have almost all the titles in that format. After 20 years I don't know of any title available for rent. DVHS came up with a lot of support from videofiles. Some titles are available, price is high and no video store rent them. HD DVD will come very expensive. There is a format war. Videofiles will buy it anyway but I doubt very much we will see new releases at blockbuster (the only thing I actually care). Keep in mind that very few DVHS titles were released at the same time as the DVD.

Best possible scenario: Few HD DVDs available in 2 years, a bunch of re-releases in 3 years and no availability of new releases for rent in less than 5 years. Joe 6 packs still rules in this market.

Sergio

I 100% agree. I'm also betting that HD-DVD and Blu-ray are more like Laserdisc or D-VHS than DVD in terms of market penetration and availability of titles. I'll order my 79AVi as soon as I see a couple of reviews just to make sure it's not a step backward from the 59AVi in any areas that I personally care about. But at least so far, everything I've seen says that it's an improvement in most if not all areas, even if incremental. I do know a lot of people holding out for 1080p from their player, but hey, if I'm sitting at 9-10ft away, and I can't see a huge difference with a 42" display between 720/768p and 480p, ain't no way I'm going to get any benefit from 1080p. Even if I had a display that could do it. :)

Yup !!
You guys`s are right about that.
It will be a costly war , and maybe a war that only the studios want to fight.
I too need to see the DV-79AVi-S ( Silver ) but if I don`t have a choise then black will be ok.
I agree that , at least at first , that HD-DVD`s will be like LD`s , and I bet they will cost about the same as LD`s did.
Somehow I just think enough already , a good upscaling player will be just fine.
I have a 37" XS955 , so I couldn`t use HD - DVD`s right now anyway, and I`m still breaking it in !!
So I say , let the war begin , while I count my pennies :)
My 2 cents ;)
Gary

I'm cosidering the Pioneer 79AVi, but ia,m also considering the Denon 3910. I have a Sont 70" XBR and an Onkyo TXNR901. Any suggestions.

I fear this Hi Def format war will turn into much ado about nothing...like the SACD vs DVD-A non battle.
The average guy, who for the most part is content with redbook CD sound, doesn't care about the improved sound quality and multi channel capability. It means (maybe) a new player and scarce, expensive discs. They don't see the need or benefit. And we all hate format wars.

Is there a chance the same story will repeat itself with HD-DVD & BluRay?
It takes off slowly and 3 or 4 years down the road it's just a niche market?

The only reason I think that one of these formats may stick around is because of the PS3. When that ships, there will suddenly be millions of blu-ray players all around the globe. I think that any studio that won't make content available to such a large market is making a mistake.

Also, what I love about the 79avi is that down the road I can go 480i through HDMI to some yet not available scaler and to a not yet available affordable 1080p projector. Upgradeability is nice :)

Also, what I love about the 79avi is that down the road I can go 480i through HDMI to some yet not available scaler and to a not yet available affordable 1080p projector. Upgradeability is nice :)

This is also true for the 59, isn't it? I could probably swap my 59 for a 79 with ~$200 diff, but am not convinced that there is a signficant difference (interested primarily in video; audio is sent directly to an AVR digitally.) Any thoughts?

Yup it's true for the 59avi as well. I don't have a 59 so it made sense for me just to go direct to the 79. I like that it has 10bit processing instead of 8, and I'm hopeful that there are other improvements as well on the video side. Levesque said he thought it was a step up, but nothing revolutionary.

I think you guys are most likely wrong about the Blu-Ray - HDDVD war. My opinion is it comes down to marketing. How many commercials have you seen for SACD and DVD-Audio?

When the Hi-Def versions of DVD hit the market they will have commercials airing all the time. I can hear it now:

Such and such movie coming out on Tuesday, available on DVD and High Definition.

Things like this will get joe sixpack wondering. My Sisters friend who didn't know anything about High Definition was over the other night and couldn't stop complimenting my SXRD TV saying he saw a commercial for it during a hockey game and has wanted one ever since.

If they market it right, plus the whole PS3 thing then I think it will catch on fairly quickly.

I fear this Hi Def format war will turn into much ado about nothing... like the SACD vs DVD-A non battle. The average guy, who for the most part is content with redbook CD sound, doesn't care about the improved sound quality and multi channel capability. It means (maybe) a new player and scarce, expensive discs. They don't see the need or benefit. And we all hate format wars. Is there a chance the same story will repeat itself with HD-DVD & BluRay? It takes off slowly and 3 or 4 years down the road it's just a niche market?I think there may be one fundamental advantage with High Def video over High Def audio (SACD/DVD-A). First, not everyone has a killer audio system that will really demonstrate the advantages the two formats offer. Most people are visually oriented; if they are going to spend big money on either a great TV or a great sound system, I'm betting at least 90% would go for the TV.

Second, wheras a lot of people didn't have gear to allow them to really notice a big difference with HD Audio, anyone with a HDTV should be able to see a huge difference when comparing BluRay/HD-DVD to standard DVD. It's almost as big a difference as SDTV to HDTV (except that many SDTV stations look worse than DVD).

So, IMHO, the perceived benefits of the HD-Disc formats will be readily observable by the Average Joe down at Circuit City, which wasn't the case with the HD-Audio formats.

That being said, NO-body likes a format war! The other crucial issues will be pricing, and how quickly a HD-disc catalog can be built. If pricing is reasonable, the company that wins this battle will be the one who can put out the largest catalog in the shortest time (pretty obvious, I know)...

The only reason I think that one of these formats may stick around is because of the PS3. When that ships, there will suddenly be millions of blu-ray players all around the globe. I think that any studio that won't make content available to such a large market is making a mistake.

Which is one of the main reasons why Sony has purposely delayed the shipping of the Blu-ray to coincide with PS3 stuff that will be debuting next year…..or so I’m told.

I think you guys are most likely wrong about the Blu-Ray - HDDVD war.
Me too. I think for the most part the writing is on the wall and Blu-ray has already won.
Tos et. al. just don’t know it yet.

Will I still purchase a Pio 79avi?
Probably yes. :)

Will I still purchase a Pio 79avi?
Probably yes. :)

Me too, but with Christmas coming I think I'll wait until the new year and see if prices drop when BluRay comes.

I'm planning on getting the 79avi to go with my 3806 and was wondering if anyone else will be using a Denon AVR to go with the 79avi. I was torn between the 3806 and the 74txvi but went with the 3806. I would have liked to have i-link but really do not listen to many SACD's at this time. I thought about the 3910 but at about $500.00 more than the 79avi and the MB possibilty on my Panasonic PDP its an easy decision for me.

Thanks for any thoughts on this, Bill

For you guys in the "States"

The 989AVi (which is the 79AVi your way) has started off only a week back selling for less than the 969AVi (59AVi) ever was in Asia and yes I mean before the 969's were reduced in price some months back.
Thus I'm concluding that the 989's and 79's are leaving the factory costing less bucks to produce than the former model OR market forces have driven the price down in general!
According to the Pioneer reps in Singapore, you aint going to see much difference at all in the video from the former to the latter model, but (they say) the newy has significant audio improvements,
Guess I'll re-visit this post after a few reliable test reviews.

So how does the 79AVi compare to the Arcam CD only player in terms of audio?

jcg

I'm in the same boat. I already have a decent Arcam CD only unit...the CD-82. I'm happy with it.
I know the financially wise choice will be a low end DVD player until the Hi-Rez formats sort themselves out.
But I have heard and seen the DV-79AVI and LOVE it. Plus it will do SACD and DVD-Audio.
What if we all sit here waiting and the Blue-Ray HD-DVD "war" becomes anticlimactic like hi-rez audio....neither format takes off.

I have no idea what to do... I am perfectly happy with the 59avi in terms of its performance, but the 79avi does look intriguing... I use iLink for audio so I don't know if the audio performance would really be much better and the video improvements will probably be subtle. I'm only using a 52" display so I don't know if I would notice them... now if the screen had been twice as large... :)

Hey look at the new HDMI color setting options on the 79avi



Full Range RGB
Gives brighter colours and deeper black. Use if colours are weak. (This is the standard setting for HDMI compatible DVI devices, but it is also effective with HDMI devices.)

RGB
Use this setting if colours appear overly rich on the Full Range RGB setting.

Component (12bit)
Outputs 12bit component video format. If your connected device is compatible with this setting, 12-bit output provides very fine gradations of colour (if it is not compatible with this setting, the setting automatically reverts to Component).

Component
Outputs 8-bit component video format. This is the standard setting for HDMI-compatible devices.

Sorry

Haha, wrong thread selection? That was funny :)

So how does the 79AVi compare to the Arcam CD only player in terms of audio?

jcg

I didn't listen to them together so I can't judge at this point. I listened to the 79 with SACD only, no redbook or DVD-A (not enough time). It sound great on SACD.
I prefered it the Marantz 7600 on SACD on a side by side test.

I have always assumed that a good redbook only CD player should theoretically beat a similarly priced universal. Maybe this Pioneer will prove me wrong.
Besides, my AV and audio set-ups are now split. I need the CD-82 for the audio rig so I'll be keeping both either way.

For you guys in the "States"

The 989AVi (which is the 79AVi your way) has started off only a week back selling for less than the 969AVi (59AVi) ever was in Asia and yes I mean before the 969's were reduced in price some months back.



Wondering what the fire sale price of the 59 is going to be once the 79 is released? One authorized dealer gave me a pre-order price for the 79 and when I asked what the 59 is, he said the same price. Weird. I'm sure the 59 will drop once the 79 is available and if there's not too much difference in video quality, the 59 is going to be a great bargain.

Waiting for more reviews.

I'm only interested in redbook as I don't own any SACD or DVD-A. I'm currently demo'ing an Arcam AVR300 becuase of all the awesome reviews it gets on audio, so I want to get a CD or DVD player that will do it justice. It will be interesting to get some more reviews on the 79 once it's released.

jcg

I didn't listen to them together so I can't judge at this point. I listened to the 79 with SACD only, no redbook or DVD-A (not enough time). It sound great on SACD.
I prefered it the Marantz 7600 on SACD on a side by side test.

I have always assumed that a good redbook only CD player should theoretically beat a similarly priced universal. Maybe this Pioneer will prove me wrong.
Besides, my AV and audio set-ups are now split. I need the CD-82 for the audio rig so I'll be keeping both either way.

Hey look at the new HDMI color setting options on the 79avi

It sounds like 'Full Range RGB' and 'RGB' are equivalent to the 59's choice of 'Enhanced' and 'Standard' in its 'HDMI Color Adjust'. Can anyone more knowledgeable about these matters verify this?

It sounds like 'Full Range RGB' and 'RGB' are equivalent to the 59's choice of 'Enhanced' and 'Standard' in its 'HDMI Color Adjust'. Can anyone more knowledgeable about these matters verify this?

That would be my guess. I can check the 59avi manual as well to see if the verbage matches, but that's the limit of my knowledge.

What actually piqued my interest was the last two options: Component (12 bit) and Component (8bit). I may be wrong, but doesn't that mean the 79avi will output 8 or 12 bit YPbPr over HDMI as well as RGB? I highlighted this because I thought the 59avi was RGB over HDMI only. I would like to have this confirmed because I don't know, but it looked like the case to me :)

I looked through the 79Avi manual and I understood the reference to component 12-bit colour in the HDMI setup menu to mean if the display "component" was able to render 12-bits of resolution this was the setting to choose.

If this makes any real world difference for SD DVD I don't know, but my PJ has 12-bit panels so why not!

Re-reading it, I still think it's referring to YPbPr since it's calling the last two options "component video format" and the first two "RGB". Either way, more options are always better in my book :)

So ...When do you guys we can actually buy the 79? My Sound-Advice (Tweeter) doesn't even have it for pre-order and it's not in their computer.

Sergio

That would be my guess. I can check the 59avi manual as well to see if the verbage matches, but that's the limit of my knowledge.

What actually piqued my interest was the last two options: Component (12 bit) and Component (8bit). I may be wrong, but doesn't that mean the 79avi will output 8 or 12 bit YPbPr over HDMI as well as RGB? I highlighted this because I thought the 59avi was RGB over HDMI only. I would like to have this confirmed because I don't know, but it looked like the case to me :) Component video is YCbCr (digital) over HDMI and YCbCr converted to analog: YPbPr. Same info, just different forms of transmission. I'm a little surprised that it's 8bit and 12bit. What happened to 10bit? :) 12bit YCbCr 4:2:2 seems overkill for 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0 DVDs. HDMI will also output 8bit RGB, mainly for talking to DVI targets.

larry

Thanks Larry, very informative. Do you happen to know if the availability of YCbCr via HDMI is a change from the 59.

I was also wondering why 12bit instead of 10? Maybe Chris Walker might chime in with some ideas.

So ...When do you guys we can actually buy the 79? My Sound-Advice (Tweeter) doesn't even have it for pre-order and it's not in their computer.

Sergio

I talked to Tweeter in my area yesterday as well and was told the same thing. Tweeter is having a private sale next weekend and DVD players are 15% off. I hope the 79avi is in their system by then, if not maybe they will let me pre-order one at 15% off. If Tweeter is selling them at $1000.00 that would be $850.00 not a bad price from an authorized dealer.

Bill

Thanks Larry, very informative. Do you happen to know if the availability of YCbCr via HDMI is a change from the 59.

I was also wondering why 12bit instead of 10? Maybe Chris Walker might chime in with some ideas. Somebody with a European version of the 59avi claims to get YCbCr from via HDMI. Nobody else that I recall has spoken. Carl saw RGB when doing his measurements - possibly because the Lumagen has DVI input, but then again it "fooled" the 59avi so it would send 480i, so what not YCbCr? I wouldn't be surprised at all if the 59avi only sent RGB from HDMI and my reasoning (as I posted once or twice in other threads) is that the 59avi didn't suffer from the early HDMI chip HDMI->DVI clipping bug.

larry

I'm planning on getting the 79avi to go with my 3806 and was wondering if anyone else will be using a Denon AVR to go with the 79avi. I was torn between the 3806 and the 74txvi but went with the 3806. I would have liked to have i-link but really do not listen to many SACD's at this time. I thought about the 3910 but at about $500.00 more than the 79avi and the MB possibilty on my Panasonic PDP its an easy decision for me.

Thanks for any thoughts on this, Bill

The 59 & 79 can send ALL audio via I-Link, not just SACD. This means any I-Link AVR can have a beautiful 1 cable solution.

when will this player be available? thanks.

Right now.

Right now.

Where?

San Francisco Bay Area Magnolia Hi-Fi stores. I just bought mine over the phone.

whats the price tag on it, and is there a link for it online so i can check it out?

San Francisco Bay Area Magnolia Hi-Fi stores. I just bought mine over the phone.

Was this a preorder or a "come on in today and pick it up" type order? I want to know so I can bug my dealer about my preorder :)

So will setting the 79AVi for this 12 bit mode over HDMI have any impact on the video quality going into a scaler (like the VP30). Is this 12 bit mode available for 480i over HDMI too?

jcg

Component video is YCbCr (digital) over HDMI and YCbCr converted to analog: YPbPr. Same info, just different forms of transmission. I'm a little surprised that it's 8bit and 12bit. What happened to 10bit? :) 12bit YCbCr 4:2:2 seems overkill for 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0 DVDs. HDMI will also output 8bit RGB, mainly for talking to DVI targets.

larry

Was this a preorder or a "come on in today and pick it up" type order? I want to know so I can bug my dealer about my preorder :)

Kind of in between. They have the units in their warehouse. It will take a couple days to get it to the store.

whats the price guys?

Cool, thanks! Hopefully we'll both get them soon.

theosedax - I think MSRP is $1200 with MAP or List at $999. I'll pm you what I paid right now.

thanks man, i appreciate it, cause the dvd player im buying is gonna be the this or the denon 3910.

So will setting the 79AVi for this 12 bit mode over HDMI have any impact on the video quality going into a scaler (like the VP30). Is this 12 bit mode available for 480i over HDMI too?

jcg

I tried the 480i,720p hdmi direct mode to Marantz S4 projector . Everything works fine except 12bits 480i hdmi . The colour is out . 12bits on 480p and 720p is fine though .