Official Zenith 42" EDTV Plasma Z42PX2D thread! [Text View]

denisl

09-17-05, 01:07 PM

Count me in as the latest Z42PX2D happy customer...

Just like most of us on avsforum, after extensive and almost compulsive amount of research, I went with the Zenith. Of all the posts and online reviews I've read on HD and ED plasma sets the Z42 had all the features I was looking for in a Plasma. I watch a lot of non-HD programming so ED fit the bill.

The ringing endorsement provided by Bon3 and Clarkebar is what turned me onto the Z42 and not to mention the great price the TV can be had for at Best Buy. $1899MSRP combined with a coupon here and rebate there it is truly the best bang for the buck.

So, now that I've had it for a little over a week and have the cablecard installed I am in complete awe when watching HD channels. I just ordered DVE and will be heading out to Best Buy to pick up a HDMI up converting DVD player.

Once my setup is complete I will post my impressions, which is as credible as a newbie to plasma TV's can be. For right now - I'm just drawn to the TV. I watched the Met game yesterday on HD and all I can say is WOW. What a great picture.

ccjgil

09-17-05, 01:15 PM

I have heard that this TV does not come with a TV stand. Is this true?

denisl

09-17-05, 01:17 PM

It comes with a base, not a tall stand.

http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/7139/7139269_ra.jpg

One other quick note, which I'm sure most already know..
Zenith is owned by LG.

ClarkeBar

09-17-05, 02:33 PM

As denisl points out, LG supplies most of the major components.

Instead of DVI the Z42 offers HDMI. There is another Zenith ED on their website which more closely resembles the LG feature set including PIP and DVI but I have never seen it.

For anyone interested, there is a fully accessible service menu. I personally consider this a key feature with any set. Also, the sound quality of this set is quite remarkable with excellent power available. It is so good I use it for normal TV viewing as it keeps things simple for my wife who is not remote tolerant. For DVD material we always use 5.1 but because of the optical out we can fire up the audio system for those HD feeds in DD.

A few quick tips for improved SD performance:

Along with Cablecard use---

When signal quality allows, use the low power setting...I found this to be most helpful while viewing HD material recorded on the Motorola HD DVR and copied onto standard DVD using my Toshiba XS32. It helped reduce the down conversion effects so I subsequently began viewing SD channels the same way and gained a noticeable improvement.

Keep sharpness below 50...mine is never higher than 47 and my set experiences a definite jump in sharpness artifacts at 50 and above with analog material. YMMV

And, of course, make use of the custom memory settings for all inputs including tuner types. SD viewing requires very different settings than other uses.

BarnacleBill

09-18-05, 08:53 PM

So, now that I've had it for a little over a week and have the cablecard installed I am in complete awe when watching HD channels. I just ordered DVE and will be heading out to Best Buy to pick up a HDMI up converting DVD player.
Denis, why would you buy an upconverting DVD? Wouldn't that make the picture worse? Both the DVD and the TV are 480. Why upconvert the DVD and then make the TV down convert it?

denisl

09-18-05, 09:26 PM

BarnacleBill - 720p / 1080i channels on this TV look excellent - just like a HD set to my eye. You can definately tell the difference between SD and HD channels. Before I bought this set I had the same concern with double converting the signal, however, this doesn't seem to be an issue. From what I'm reading on this forum, an upconverting DVD player looks much better when the signal to the TV is HD vs. 480.

I think both Bon3 and Clarkebar own the Oppo DVD player, I've yet to purchase an upconverting player. I'm sure they will comment on their PQ.

B0N3

09-18-05, 10:09 PM

I've had the Oppo for a couple of weeks and use 720p as the default. I've tried different settings and find this to be the best as far as PQ. (Of course this is going DVI/HDMI in)
My SAT HD receiver is also set at 720p and I get a consistent pic all around. Hi-def sources are crystal clear .. my local HD channels also look great. SD channels look very good as well.
I'm still tweaking and will get back with a full report in a few.

EDIT:
After further tests with different DVDs (Nemo, Spiderman 2) I have seen significant macroblocking. Noticed it at the beginning of Nemo during the "blue screen Disney Logo" intro .. really bad artifacts and blotchiness. Hooked up my Philips DVD player into Component and didn't see any of this .. actually got a better looking overall pic as well. I'm concerned about the integrity of the HDMI input on this set. I am less than impressed, but thank god for the 2 Component inputs. I'm looking into the X2VGA adapter for my Xbox to use with the RGB-DVI input .. having trouble finding anyone that uses it for this purpose. Posted some stuff on xbox-scene and hopefully will get a response.

Returning the Oppo tomorrow

denisl

09-19-05, 04:25 PM

My remote has a "guide" button - but when pressed I get no program information available. I have cablevision IO with CableCard. I thought that some sets, this one included, was capable to displaying the TVGuide preview guide.

If not, what's the guide button for?

ClarkeBar

09-19-05, 05:45 PM

I'm using Cablecard with Comcast and the Guide is disabled with this connection. At least they warned me about it ahead of time. I still get a Guide though as I now use a Motorola HD DVR for recording only on a split line.

Les Garrenton

09-20-05, 03:27 PM

I thought that some sets, this one included, was capable to displaying the TVGuide preview guide.I've looked at the on-line manual for the Z42PX2D and it looks to me like this set has a generic guide rather than the actual TV Guide branded embedded guide from Gemstar, correct? And are you guys are saying that this internal guide is disabled with a CableCard installed as opposed to just not being able to get the local cable company's guide with a CableCard (which I knew already)? I've got an appointment this weekend for Cox Cable to come out and install a CableCard in an LG model that looks almost identical to the Zenith except that it does have the TV Guide/Gemstar guide that I wouldn't want to lose.

Jonny

09-20-05, 03:59 PM

[QUOTE=ClarkeBar]As denisl points out, LG supplies most of the major components.

Instead of DVI the Z42 offers HDMI. There is another Zenith ED on their website which more closely resembles the LG feature set including PIP and DVI but I have never seen it.

That would be the P42W46X which i own (and love) and has its own thread buried somewhere in here.

Enjoy the new ED set folks! :D

ClarkeBar

09-20-05, 06:38 PM

Les,

Yes, the internal EPG is disabled and until I started using the HD DVR from Comcast their Guide was also unavailable using the CC. Some sets like the Panny PX50Us have TV Guide which works even with CableCard. No such luck for this EPG.

denisl

09-20-05, 07:01 PM

ClarkeBar - are you saying that with comcast's DVR hooked up to your TV the EPG now works? How do you have your DVR hooked up so that you still use the Cable card?

Also - are you saying that the EPG doesn't work out of the box because our cable providers don't want us to be able to use it?

Thanks..

Les Garrenton

09-20-05, 07:27 PM

Some sets like the Panny PX50Us have TV Guide which works even with CableCard. No such luck for this EPG.I finally found a couple of references on AVS and in a Google search that indicated that the TV Guide On Screen EPG supposedly does work with the CableCard installed. I just got the LG 50PX4DR last week and it surprises me that there is a different EPG in the Zenith Z42PX2D sibling and that it would behave differently. I guess I'll find out for sure when Cox Cable comes out this weekend.

Thanks for the info!

ClarkeBar

09-20-05, 07:30 PM

Hello denisl,

Yes, apparently they don't want us using our built-in EPGs. I now have access to the TV Guide with the Motorola HD DVR which I can receive because I split the service line before connection. The CC installer kindly upgraded my old splitter for me. CC doesn't cost me anything with my local Comcast and I much prefer it for operating simplicity and greater PQ across the board. Even though I have always had a strong disliking for boxes of any kind, the Motorola 6412 through component provides PQ very similar to the CC on a fair number of channels...as well as makes excellent recordings. I pipeline them to my non-HD Toshiba recorders and am still pleased with the results.

B0N3

09-21-05, 08:24 PM

denisl

09-21-05, 10:23 PM

Jonny

09-21-05, 10:43 PM

FYI - i believe the P42W46X has its own faroudja, but it had DVI not HDMI and there was some confusion on what inputs it was actually active on.

Hoppy

09-22-05, 05:12 AM

I bought and returned the Zenith Z42PX2D this weekend. Got it as open box for 1639 plus tax and was thrilled until I got it home and compared the PQ against my Sony 34XBR800. No contest, as it turns out. The Sony was better by far on all SD content and better by a smidge on the DVDs i looked at.

In a certain way it's not a fair comparison as the Sony is (a) smaller and thus inclined to look sharper, and (b) a HD (or HD ready) set, but the difference was significant.

In addition the Z gave me and the BW headaches from 11.5' which I found surprising, though I imagined (assumed?) it was product of change and something that would not happen after a bit of watching.

The DVD had a surprisingly mealy look to it, though at its best it was quite good (mainly I was looking a a very nice Korean movie called "3-Iron").

Anyway, wanted to thank you for help and advice previously on another thread I cannot now locate. I think I'll get back on teh bench where I belong and just lurk a bit more before venturing forth again.

Hoppy

B0N3

09-22-05, 07:23 AM

Bon3 - The Oppo is notorious for macroblocking due to the faroudja chip. I was hoping that the faroudja chip would work well with the Z42PX2D as I was looking for a player based on this chip. Why do you think that the hdmi connection is the culprit here? If the integrity of the hdmi port on our sets is questionable then an upsconverting DVD player would be no longer an option, unless a player can be found that will up convert over component - which I don't think any newly manufactured players offer this in the US.

I hope it's just the Oppo and not the hdmi port.

Clarkebar - have you too noticed significant MB and poor PQ with your Oppo?

I'm also hoping it is just the Oppo .. I tried the Sammy 850 and noticed the same problem with macroblocking and blotchiness. Although it's unlikely that it's a HDMI problem with my set, I can't rule it out 100% because I have yet to find a source that looks good with it. My D* HD box was connected to it for a while and I noticed lots of mosquito noise in darker scenes (HD content).

I may try out the LG and/or the Panny and hopefully rule out a problem with my set. For now I am really happy with my Component setup and will probably keep it that way for a bit.

B0N3

09-22-05, 07:53 AM

::::as far as upconversion DVD players using component .. you can always get the Zenith DVB-318 and apply the older firmware .. it will upconvert to 1080i::::

I'll have to add that one to the list :o

denisl

09-22-05, 10:52 AM

ClarkeBar

09-22-05, 01:28 PM

ClarkeBar

09-22-05, 02:07 PM

B0N3

09-22-05, 04:10 PM

Hi Guys,

It appears the old build date Zeniths will handle Copy Protection DVD's and yield 1080i upconversion through component. According to many reviewers across the web builds before July 2004 seem to have the old firmware which does allow this. Builds from July 2004 on have the newer firmware which gave problems with the 1080i component upconversion. However, As Bon3 has suggested, the old firmware is still available for anything with a newer build.

I have returned the Oppo and will buy another DVI-HDMI cable today for use with my Comcast HD DVR which I am currently connecting through Component. I figure this is an additional and cheaper way to check out the HDMI port on these sets since I already have the equipment and won't need to continually return DVD players. I will try both 720P and 1080i output...If I find problems similar to what Bon3 reported with his D* HD box with the PQ using both live feeds and recorded material I will report back quickly...probably by tonight.

Since there seems to be problems with different players the culprit may well be the HDMI implementation itself. If so, it may be that the HDMI input can be upgraded with newer firmware. I haven't checked yet with Zenith Support but last time I looked they didn't seem to have much in the way of downloads except manuals. You have to email their support for many things other manufacturers routinely handle on the website. Have put in an email on this issue and also regarding any possible firmware upgrades for the set...will see what happens.

I was wondering if you noticed other strange artifacts with your Oppo .. I noticed a symetrical flashing of small triangles during the very beginning of Nemo as the Disney Logo appears with the bright blue background. Is this macroblocking?
It doesn't look like the normal macrblocking I have seen in the past, maybe a strange variation associated with the DVI output. I also noticed the exact same problem with the Sammy 850 .. both using the HDMI/DVI output. You probably didn't analyze it like I did, but I used that as a test source to determine a possible HDMI TV input problem. I do not see it using component with the same Nemo DVD.
Thanks for emailing Zenith .. I'll be looking forward to hearing your test results later.

ClarkeBar

09-22-05, 09:32 PM

Hi Joe,

Returned from the Rat Shack with a Gold Series DVI-HDMI cable...looks to be about the same quality as the Oppo supplied cable...maybe a touch better. I never got around to using it much as the HDMI output (putting upconversion aside) yielded only a slightly brighter onscreen image than component...and unfortunately basically more noise artifacts in the form of color field shimmer. With upconversion thrown in the quality improvement over 480P really wasn't there. I never saw what you describe but what I did see was enough for me. Without multiple players and cables it is difficult to test out where the problem lies exactly but I am open to the possibility the likely candidate may well be the HDMI input on the set itself.

Aside from the usual startup protocol problems with the DVI Motorola box (it wouldn't initially recognize the connection---suggested I use the Wideband Component connection) I have now seen what you referred to earlier in terms of PQ using your Provider box. I also observe a strange tendency on the part of my DVR box when displaying 720P output through the HDMI. I first get a horizontal 2/3-1/3 screen with a white line running North and South between. Changing the channel on the box and then returning clears it up. Very weird. Scaling is otherwise uneventful. 1080i seems to be the favored HD resolution of these panels, even through the RF input with normal cable and the half dozen or so local HDs. Over time, having added in the Cablecard and upgraded service to Digital gaining several more HDs, this remains the case. I have my DVR set to output 1080i because of this. Counter-intuitive I know...but native 480P from the box just doesn't seem quite as sharp and clear and has slightly more color field noise, though I'm speaking of very small differences.

Of course without the Oppo player here now to test further I am limited to testing with the HD DVR only which may introduce more such problem areas as the 720P scaling into the equation. I guess the only thing to do is pop out to BB and grab an upconverting player like the LG 511...maybe the Tosh 4980 to keep it simple and less expensive. I would prefer to go with either the Panny 97 or 77 but that will take a few days to arrive and I would like to get some closure on this issue in terms of where the problem lies. If the HDMI input is flawed Zenith needs to hear from us. If it is flawed and can be fixed through firmware then they need to get to it. If it isn't flawed then we need to find players which will give the PQ HDMI should deliver.

Edit: During testing I just now am encountering a new problem existing between the set and the DVR using HDMI. The signal comes in for a few seconds and then goes black. The set does not follow with the built-in No Signal message as it does with every other inactive input no matter whether there is a physical connection or not. This tells me the problem is with the DVR DVI-HDMI output. The set acts like a signal is there by not giving me the message but the screen is black. I believe yet another service call is in order from Comcast but they may be able to ping it. I'll see what develops.

ClarkeBar

09-22-05, 09:49 PM

Here is my correspondence with Zenith and their rather (I'm happy to report) quick but not necessarily 'responsive' reply:

-----------Original Customer Enquiry------------
Received Date : 9/22/2005 12:35:14
The type of inquiry : Software/Hardware updates
Product/Model number : PDP TV/Z42PX2D

Hello,

I am inquiring as to whether there is yet any firmware upgrade available for the above set. I am experiencing problems using upconverting DVD players such as the OPP 971H, Samsung 850, etc. through the HDMI port. There is noticeable macroblocking and overall picture blotchiness. Using Component cables yields a superior picture than using the HDMI connection but the output resolution drops back to 480P only with this connection type. As the 720P and especially the 1080i PQ on this 480P panel is so outstanding, like many owners I am trying to get an improved DVD picture using upconverting players. Unfortunately most of them use DVI-HDMI only for this upconversion and component upconversion doesn't seem to be generally available. Can you shed any light on why many of us are experiencing the problems we are having with HDMI input on the Z42? If so, what remedies do you recommend?

Many Thanks,
Paul Clarke

-----------Reply to Customer Enquiry------------

Dear Paul,

Thank you for inquiring of Zenith Electronics. This television has a native resolution of 480p. This means that it can take whatever signal is presented, and processes the signal to fit into 480 lines of resolution. This is why the progressive scan on component looks so well, is because it does not have to adjust the signal to get it to fit. Try your HDMI connection using 480p resolution to see if any better quality can be achieved. For further information or troubleshooting, you may contact us at 800-243-0000 for LG Customer Service assistance. An agent will be glad to assist you. Thank you again for contacting LG Electronics.

Neil E-mail Administrator Customer Interactive Center LGEAI

I think the only way to tell if there is some definite HDMI problem on this set is to get another player as I wrote earlier and try it out. The problems I'm currently having with the stupid DVR box and Comcast using the HDMI input are adding nothing but confusion to the upconversion player issue :mad: .

As it stands now, even when it was working properly earlier this evening, I see no benefit to using HDMI over wideband component for DTV. Thus the HDMI for me is purely for DVD use if proper results can be obtained.

Les Garrenton

09-22-05, 10:53 PM

Neil at LG customer service always appear a little distracted. Twice I wrote in asking whether a CableCard installation on my LG plasma would disable the TV Guide On Screen EPG and twice Neil writes me back saying that a CableCard installation won't disable my over the air tuner. I gave up after that.

ClarkeBar

09-22-05, 11:39 PM

Hoppy

09-23-05, 05:10 AM

Hoppy,

Sorry you had the problems you encountered. It is a sad fact of life that SD on these panels is simply not going to be anything like CRT, especially quality CRT. The only thing that will remedy this fully will be ubiquitous HD content across the board and a relegation of SD to the archives. :p

True some panels handle SD better than others but the PQ is never going to be more than what you convince yourself it is. :( I happen to like my SD feeds through Comcast now that I've tweaked and fiddled. There are always a few tricks to be employed for these things, set dependent. While the PQ is not even what my 27" Tosh yielded, I didn't buy this kind of set to watch SD anyway. My wife thought we would do that...but it took only a few days for her to realize the benefits gained from upgrading our cable service and increasing her most hated bill. :D

I fear the headaches you were suffering were likely caused by super high levels, especially Brightness and Contrast , with the presets. I have found the many presets on the Z to be excessive for most situations although they do provide a more dynamic picture overall. Some of them can be mimicked and then adapted using the custom feature when the proper viewing circumstances arise. Also the environmental lighting conditions can play a role as well. I always use backlighting for relieving eye strain in a darkened room, as much for myself as for my wife who suffers a good bit in dark viewing conditions.

Perhaps going back to the bench is not a bad thing. You will gain over time with better pricing and technology. Maybe you should try the PD50U in-house to see if it makes that much of a difference with SD?

Thanks for the note. You can imagine my disappointment when you realize I started looking at Plasma sets seems like 2002 or 2003 and yet this is the first one I've had in the house. When I bought the Sony it was very expensive, but my sense (and much research) said it had better PQ than the plasmas then available. I ran HD on it for a bit with a (pricey) HD DirecTV receiver/tuner, but there was so little HD I was interested in I soon sold the receiver (it was a Sony or Zenith, as I recall; a $700 item) and fell back to regular DirecTV and cable. Even now I think there are too few channels of HD for me. I think there's a single HBO, one Showtime or Cinemax, the Discovery channel, a completely worthless HD channel, some ESPN stuff, maybe other Sunday Ticket football [?] and whatever you can get OTA, which in my case is a local NBC channel and MAYBE a local CBS.

I may try the Panny equiv to the Zenith, but I may decide it's just too much trouble. SOme folks in the Panny thread have suggested that the PX (or whatever the current Panny HD panel is called, might provide competitive PQ, but I always thought that for SD PQ the ED panels were better than the HD--is this not so?

Anyway, thanks for the note. I'll probably be lurking now and then--

Cheers--

B0N3

09-23-05, 08:48 AM

Thanks for the heads-up. My expectations weren't high but it might've been nice if the guy had actually focused on the HDMI rather than the 480P native resolution. Oh well.

Now I'm thinking the set HDMI may be alright and the problem lies with various player implementations. Several owners have noticed the same issues with different players but it may well be the particular players themselves. Will try to verify this tomorrow with a new player.

Thanks for the diligence Paul,

I'm hoping there are no issues with the HDMI input as well .. I may pick up the
LDA-511 at BB today. I've already verified the issue with the Oppo as well as the Samsung HD850.
The LG is in store and more convenient than ordering the Zenith 318 (I have a BB right up the street and they know me well .. hehe).
I'll post some test results in a few.

ClarkeBar

09-23-05, 09:54 AM

Excellent Joe...we have the same plan. But I'm still not sure which player I'll try out as I'd like to keep it if it works out and avoid jumping on the return Merry-Go-round yet again. I'll take a little time and do some more research...see if something stands out. I'm sure the Pannys would be nice but I'm not going to buy OTC when there's nice discounts online. And if Panny didn't work out there'd be a shipping return instead of a nice and easy B&M return.

You know, the Zenith 318 may be just the ticket, even though it would be online ordering. I'll give it some thought.

denisl

09-23-05, 12:18 PM

I plan on getting the panny S97S as soon as J&R gets them in stock. I work 5 minutes from J&R B&M so it's no big deal to return for me.

I was going to try the 850 and 511 if the S97S didn't work out but looks like Bon3 has those bases covered.

Hopefully between the 3 of us we'll find a player that works good with our displays.

BTW - I called J&R and they said 2 weeks... so I wait.

As for the 318 - according to the 318 thread - the old firmware has it's share of issues as well - another trade off. Use the buggy old firmware that allows upconvert over component or use the new firmware that the bugs are fixed but no more componenet. Heck, maybe the 318 upconvert over DVI would be okay???

ClarkeBar

09-23-05, 12:47 PM

B0N3

09-23-05, 01:09 PM

Good points Denis---

So if you're going the 97S route for sure (with some delay) and Joe is maybe going towards the LG 511 soon, I'll likely try out one of the inexpensive Toshibas. Then we can sit down and compare notes. Of course now I'll have to either return the Rat Shack cable as I definitely will not be using it for DTV or do an exchange if a decent cable isn't provided with the new player.

sounds like a plan .. I'll get the LG this weekend for some testing .. I hate the auto-feed feature instead of the disc tray, but if it looks good through DVI, it may be a keeper.
I believe the Zenith 318 may be the key here. I have heard of some issues with the older firmware, but I belive they are related to the DVI connection as opposed to the Component upconvert (which you would be using anyway if you were to backlevel the firmware).
If the LG doesn't work .. I may try out the Panny and Zenith, but that's a whole order online thing that I really don't want to deal with right now.
Like Clarkebar said, we'll cover all bases.

B0N3

09-23-05, 08:28 PM

Good news folks,

Bought the LG 511 today and let me tell you .. what a difference!
I can actually use my HDMI input now .. No more crazy macroblocking and artifacts as I saw with the Oppo and Sammy 850.

Colors are vibrant but real .. the pic during upconversion is much sharper than your basic prog scan player.
This thing also has some great features .. you can turn it off in mid-play, turn it back on and it picks up from where you left off. It's Divx certified and plays all of my Divx movies that I had burned to DVD-R .. I also threw in some other discs that I feared it wouldn't read but it did.
It has some card slots in front for pics .. My 5 megapixels took a while to load, but they looked OK and it's a decent feature.

The front loader is still rather strange, but it hasn't choked on anything yet. I've heard that it doesn't like double-sided discs .. I don't have or won't buy any of those so that's a non-issue.

Sound-wise I have a separate optical coming out of the player .. I didn't use the HDMI audio. No sync problems using it this way, however I have read about audio sync problems with HDMI. Sound is excellent.

I do see some slight banding in greyish smoky scenes (Gladiator) as well as some darker blue scenes (Nemo), but that's a pretty common thing with these sets and I don't see it as a CON yet.

480i will give you an "Invalid format" message on the PDP .. you have to press the "resolution" button on the front (it's not on the remote) which switches 480p, 720p and 1080i (the LED display tells you what you have selected). I have it set to output 720p and it looks amazing .. Really happy so far.

Another plus: my wife just said "It looks awesome" .. passed the wife-factor test which is all good. This could be a keeper for me.

... Going to play a bit more and will keep you posted

Hoppy

09-24-05, 01:19 AM

Hoppy - I'm sorry it didn't work out for you as I am truly enjoying the PQ of my set. I think you probably could have improved your PQ problems - which probably would have eliminated your headaches! Here's your old thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=582007). Good luck to you.

Bon3 - I think I've narrowed down my player choices to the S97S or the LDA-531. I'm going to try the S97S first once J&R gets them in stock. If it don't work out I'll go with the 531 (I think - this is all so confusing!).

Will the 318 upconvert over component (with old firmware) for HDCP DVD's?

Thanks for your help. Am setting up HD with DirecTV next week, so there is still a possibility I will tray another plasma, an HD one this time, though my 34XBR800 is HD so I'm already OK for that.

THe Panny 42" HD seems surprisingly cheap about $2100 variously?

Anyway, wanted to thank you for help.

ClarkeBar

09-24-05, 01:32 AM

Hey Joe,

Glad to hear the good news. Now we know the HDMI input itself is not the issue. It works as described with the right equipment which must mean right implementation. I had settled on trying out the Sony S70H tomorrow but I just might stick with the LG instead...the card reader feature is a nice perk. Also considering going for one of the Pannys. Hmmmm...the 97S does have DCDi and picture adjustments up the wahzoo. :confused:

Anybody have a three sided coin? :D

ClarkeBar

09-25-05, 02:50 PM

Tried out the LG 511 using HDMI. The Sharpness/Detail increase is quite obvious. Tried all resolutions but for some reason I still prefer DVD upconversion to 1080i with these 480P panels. But having said that, all things considered I don't think I'll keep it...for two reasons:

A) When using HDMI I am getting anomalous behavior with shadow detail and low lit scenes in general. The line between Brightness and Contrast seems to be very sensitive. A dark movie like "The Forgotten" has many dark interior scenes which trigger the behavior. Usually it is seen on the background walls. Also noticed it some on "Sin City", especially in the Lucille chapter. I tried making adjustments in the Service menu to correct the problem. I can make the problem disappear with low Brightness levels but this simply darkens the picture too much. I would need to find the consistent sweet spot between light and dark and standard calibration through disc is just is not yielding it.

B) The overall PQ upgrade over my progressive JVC just wasn't sufficient enough, at least to my eyes. Not having HD panels, I know we will never see the full resolution upconversion onscreen...but the 1080i downconversion on the panel yields a superb picture on DTV. While an upconverted 480P signal to 1080i is a different kettle of fish than a 1080i source signal downconverted to 480P, there should still be something more visible to the eye than increased sharpness/range. I just haven't seen it yet (or having seen it...not seen it enough) with either the Oppo or the LG. I think I'll temporarily give up on my search for a digital input solution.

On the plus side, my results with component remain outstanding. Counting the Motorola 6412 into the mix that is three different devices now which simply give me better results with Component than with HDMI/DVI. With this being a little more than a trend, I think I should shoot for the 318 and its component upconversion with the older firmware as my last try. Thank God for those two wideband Component inputs!!!

B0N3

09-25-05, 08:17 PM

I agree with everything you said Clarkebar .. the component output PQ of this set is just amazing .. everything I've tried with HDMI just isn't cutting it.

I really want to use that damn input and I will keep the LG in there for now. My two Components are taken by my Xbox and D* HD STB.
If I find a decent Component switch with IR capability I may also grab the Zenith 318. And there's always the option of testing out that RGB input for my Xbox .. or even upgrading my receiver .. man, way too many config choices!

ClarkeBar

09-26-05, 12:11 AM

I hear ya Joe.

Are we crazy or what? I mean we jump through how many hoops trying to find just the right thing...for what? When the 'upgrade' is quantified, how much improvement is there really? But we chase that last little percent down the Yellow Brick Road. Ya gotta laugh. :)

I understand your situation. You need to make use of the available inputs or find a decent component switcher. Since I'm not a gamer I have less to connect. I simply need to switch out DVD players and use the same input. It kinda irks me that the HDMI has not proven useful to me as yet...but the right cable/equipment match is sure to come along in time.

I must admit I'm kinda anxious now to see an issue free upconversion through component. I think I'll order the Z 318 tonight.

denisl

09-26-05, 12:24 AM

There is one other option - LG makes a Canada only model that can be purchased online - LDA-531. This player is very similiar to the 511 but with some better specs. I was looking at it and posted in the DVD forum trying to get some feedback on it.

LDA-531 Canada Model (http://www.onlybestrated.com/lda531-1080i-upconverting-divx-xvid-player-with-hdmi-p-47.html)

According to the specs it will up convert to 1080i over component. I'm just reluctant to order out of the country for a player that isn't yet my last option.

I'm hoping - although kinda doubtful - that the S97 will be the answer. I was really hoping to use this d*mn hdmi input.

ClarkeBar

09-26-05, 01:19 AM

Keep the faith Denis.

The S97 looks like a winner in every regard. I just ordered the 318 through Amazon but it is back-ordered and it will be awhile. Due to reach me 10/12 or so. I usually don't mind waiting, especially since I'm moving away from using the digital input. I am anxious though to hear of your results with the HDMI. I think it will be helpful if owners using the HDMI successfully provide their equipment/cabling info. We are surely not alone in this situation with this input. I come across the issue of proper HDMI implementation all the time on the boards. And the handshaking protocols for those needing DVI adapters/connections makes it even more difficult.

If I find another source that comes close to the Amazon price I paid for the 318 and can deliver it sooner I might cancel with Amazon. Until then I'll just have to 'suffer' through with 480P DVD play through component.

Woe is me. :p

Good Luck with the Panny. :)

B0N3

09-26-05, 09:08 AM

yeah .. insane .. I'm getting a beautiful, "wife friendly" picture and then I want to hop on the merry-go-round again!
I'm not going to get the Zenith only because I am determined to make this HDMI connection work. Plus it has that finicky Farouja that I just don't trust with this display.
But .. I also wonder how nice the upconversion will look over Component. Ah the pain .. gotta love it.

EDIT:

yet another option:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6253113#post6253113

gekkie

09-27-05, 02:17 AM

Hello everyone I'm new to this forum.

I just purchased my first plasma (zenith Z42PX2D) and will have it tomorrow I'm really excited.

I'm pretty technical but know nothing about this technology, so when reading reviews and postings I don't really understand what people are talking about when referencing things like 480p, blacks etc...

I was wondering if some can help me out with the basic to do's when you first get this monster.

I have a
Yamaha 650W 5.1-Ch. Home Theater System Model: YHT-160 HT system that I will be running everything through using component hook ups. I will be running my Adelphia cable TV to this along with PS2 VCR and DVD. Will I need something to run my digital cable or can I just hook the tivo up and run it?

Any suggestions or advice for newbies like me would be appreciated and if you could keep it as simple as possible I would appreciate it very much.

Thanks again

ClarkeBar

09-27-05, 03:45 AM

Gekkie,

Welcome to the Forum.

You made an excellent choice...now just relax and let the set entertain you.

First thing after setup...turn down the settings for the set break-in period (100-200hrs.). You do this best by selecting Custom in the Menu under Video (first line - EZ Pic). Picking any of the factory presets and making changes will also call up the Custom setting by default. The factory presets are not adjustable and altering any of them will simply change your custom settings.

Lowered settings are arbitrary depending on viewer. But no setting higher than 0 on the -50-->+50 scale will suffice, especially in Contrast and Brightness. Also reduce Color saturation...Tint however is pretty darn close at 0 give or take a few clicks. Many of us Z owners use settings lower than the mid-point on a routine basis but after break-in I have found myself using the presets from time to time depending on screen content and lighting conditions. When doing this however, I routinely use the Whitewash feature before set shutdown as it quickly and effectively removes any temporary image retention from the over boosted settings. Along with the lowered settings I would activate the Orbiter function in the Options-->ISM Menu. This is a great help against burn-in.

You don't say what level of cable service you will be connecting. If purely analog SD (standard definition) you may quickly want to upgrade the service. Watching analog SD on any ED (enhanced definition) or HD (high definition) set with any degree of satisfaction is highly dependent on signal source quality and the provider transmission. Also as analog SD varies a great deal from channel to channel...it is a crap-shoot. Almost all SD signals can be made better by viewing in 4:3 with the grey bars but I wouldn't do too much of it during set break-in. Same goes for heavily letterboxed DVDs...you will have time later on to enjoy it all. If you just can't resist use the zoom modes.

If however you are speaking of Digital service, then SD will be less of a concern. DTV (Digital TV) is far superior ranging from 480i (SD) content up to 1080i (HD). Depending on provider, the bulk of your DTV reception will be 480i SD but the improvement over analog SD is quite pronounced. HD of either 720P or 1080i is superb on these panels.

Resolutions are either interlaced (alternating lines - odds, evens) or progressive (all lines at once). Standard DVD is 480i. Progressive DVD is 480P (which happens to be the native resolution of these ED panels). But they are capable of receiving higher resolutions such as 720P or 1080i. They just have to scale them down to 480P. Naturally the source signal quality and resolution is extremely important as is the internal scaling ability of the set. So whether you are using standard cable (which will give you your local HD channels), set top antenna, digital cable, Satellite, etc. use the best connections and cabling possible...but not Monster. :eek: $$$$ (Just kidding)

The Z has a remarkable sound system which allows for standalone use with surprising results. And of course this set has multiple Optical In/Out which allows full HT connection.

Some of us have been trying to make use of the HDMI input on the set with varying results. I have temporarily given up on the HDMI having tried it with an HD DVR and two upconverting DVD players each case resulting in varying issues. I will stick with component for the time being. HDMI seems to be something of a hit or miss situation and very dependent on equipment. Fortunately the 2 component-ins on these sets are very well implemented and yield excellent PQ. Depending on your equipment connections and types you will have to use trial and error to see which works best for you.

Make use of the settings memory per input, even tuner type. This is extremely helpful as experience has shown there really are no global settings applicable to all inputs. They each have their own idiosyncracies. After break-in you can use a calibration disc and see for yourself. Because of the heavy and multiple menu use required I advise against it during break-in.

I'm sure I speak for all of the Z owners here when I say we wish you Good Luck and Happy viewing.

STaylorgr8

09-27-05, 08:12 AM

great post ClakeBar. Im thinking about purchasing the Zenith in a couple weeks when I close on my townhome. From what I saw at BB and some reviews I have read, the PQ and features make it an easy decision. Its great to be able to read all this information and get educated before the big purchase.

ClarkeBar

09-27-05, 12:08 PM

B0N3

09-27-05, 01:04 PM

Good for you. :) Unlike me you will benefit from the recent price reductions and may yet catch another one still.

I didn't specifically mention it in the post to Gekkie but the set also has a full Service menu should any issues arise. I understand some peoples reluctance to enter there and I always advise caution when doing so...but I consider a complete Service menu a must. While there were a few other comparative differences in play, that more than anything else is what finally turned me from the PD50U.

Good Luck with the new house...and the plasma. :)

I've ventured into the Service Menu .. found a setting to adjust horizontal and vertical screen adjustment. Came in real handy after realizing how outta wack it was.
I hate those invalid Configuration messages though, scary stuff. Make sure you write down all of your default settings before changing anything.
I should take my own advise .. but I like to live dangerously .. hehe

welcome to the thread gekkie and STaylorgr8!

ClarkeBar

09-27-05, 11:31 PM

I hate those invalid Configuration messages though, scary stuff. Make sure you write down all of your default settings before changing anything.

Always scary!!! :eek: Makes your heart skip a beat...and when it won't come back properly until you cycle the inputs...what a gas!!! :p

Advice to all...stay away from the 2 SET options at the top of the Second tier Service menu. You don't need to use them.

I had to disconnect my entire system today (otherwise known as uncoiling that great tangle of wires hidden behind a pile of electronics) and move everything to new positions. Trying to get ready for a new credenza and this will help me finalize the choice. Nice perk from the effort...I now have much better backlighting on the wall and somehow in the reconnecting I improved my recording ability to the analog DVD recorder. Used to have to pipe the analog sound from the Z monitor out while the material was playing onscreen to get audio with the recorded video. Now I can get it straight from the HD DVR like it should be and watch whatever I want on the set or through the DVR.

Sometimes it pays to move things around. :)

STaylorgr8

09-28-05, 08:04 AM

B0N3

09-28-05, 08:48 AM

Im a little confused with all this DVD player issues and macro blocking and upconversion talk.

Is there that great of a PQ difference by using the HDMI vs. component cables?

Also, most importantly, what DVD player would you suggest for this tv that has NO issues? Simply plug it, run a HDMI or component cables to the TV and sit back and enjoy great PQ.

Thanks again.

There's no easy answer to this .. unfortunately you may have to hop on the merry-go-round and try a few out.
To upconvert or not is a heated debate on these boards. Some say that a basic Prog Scan through component will give you an equal if not better PQ than if you were to upconvert through HDMI.

I personally prefer using Component connections for everything. HDMI, in my eyes, actually provides a crisper pic, but can also bring out artifacts you wouldn't normally see using Component cables.

As far as the players:

I had problems with the Oppo, which has the Faroudja chip and is known to cause macroblocking on some displays. Upconverting is only through HDMI on this unit.

The Samsung 850 also showed bad artifact, but not macroblocking because it's a non-Faroudja player. I wasn't impressed by this player.

The Panny S97, as far as I know, hasn't been tested by any of us yet, but I'm willing to bet that it won't be a good match for this set, partly because of the Faroudja chip. It's also only available online, so you'll have to deal with a shipping return instead of a convenient "bring it back to the store for a refund".

The Zenith 318 seems like a good bet, only because it can upconvert using Component cables. This requires backleveling the firmware though.

If you're looking for a decent player that'll upconvert through HDMI .. the LG 511 is OK. Unfortunately it won't upconvert CP DVDs. The way around this is to burn a copy of the DVD, then it'll work. I mainly use this unit for a divx player and have had great luck with it. It's also fairly cheap for an upconversion player and is available at BB. So if you don't like it, it's an easy return.

My advise .. try out a good prog scan player .. if you like the pic, keep it and call it a day. There's no sense in going nuts (like I am) about finding the perfect upconversion player.

I'm not an expert in this technology in any way, but there are a few on this board that can provide you with more detail and fact about these players.

STaylorgr8

09-28-05, 09:16 AM

Thanks Bon3. Thats what I was thinking. I don't want to go crazy upconverting through HDMI cambles and get into all this technicall stuff. If I can just get a good DVD player that puts out a very good picutre with component cables than I will be happy.

ClarkeBar

09-28-05, 10:58 AM

Joe pretty much pegged it.

He has tried a few himself and between Denis, Joe and myself we will have trialed about 10 players either already in our arsenals or bought for this purpose.

Unfortunately Denis will have to wait a bit for the Panny S97S as I will for the Z 318. This delay isn't helpful to sorting out this issue but can't be avoided.

I was watching Dark City last night on my trusted old JVC 70BK and lo and behold saw a similar macroblocking effect in shadow detail on the background walls in a few semi-dark interior scenes. And this was through component...and yet was very similar to what I observed when using HDMI with the LG 511. At least using different EZ Pic settings solved the problem with this DVD unlike what happened with The Forgotten using HDMI. So even using an input on which the set has been calibrated, no matter how well any player does or what cables perform better, there are always going to be issues beyond your control. At least now I know what DVDs will make excellent test media for any new players.

STaylorgr8

09-28-05, 12:26 PM

I emailed Zenith Customer service asking them about upconversion and the 318 via component cables, and they said that since its an EDTV that there is no reason to get a DVD player with upconversion since the native resolution of the Z42PX2D is 480p, that even if you were to send it a higher signal , it would just drop the signal back down to 480p. He said a regular progressive scan that puts out 480p would be the best bet.

Any comments to this?

ClarkeBar

09-28-05, 01:03 PM

From the point of view of scaling alone this makes great sense. But anyone who has seen HD on these sets as compared to 480i DTV knows that higher signal source yields greater returns, even on a panel of 480P. I can assure you that the PQ witnessed on 720P or especially 1080i HD, even though rendered on a 480P panel, is quite a serious upgrade over 480i. The simple jump to 480P from 480i is nowhere near this much of an improvement. From what I have read from 318 users, the PQ is very near HD in appearance. As good as progressive scan can look at times, I've never found myself referring to any 480P DVD image as near HD.

If it is possible, I believe these results are simply easier to obtain with wideband component on these sets. If nothing else I will have gained a newer player than my old JVC 70BK which is getting long in the tooth. But this chase to see more than is there may well be "fools gold". Time will tell, as will I.

B0N3

09-28-05, 02:19 PM

If you're looking for a decent player that'll upconvert through HDMI .. the LG 511 is OK. Unfortunately it won't upconvert CP DVDs.

I may have stated this fact incorrectly .. I believe using the component connection will not display 720p or 1080i for HDCP DVDs .. the HDMI port does support HDCP material for all resolutions.
Burning a backup copy of a CP DVD, then playing back via component will upconvert to 720p or 1080i.
Figure that one out, making a backup copy of a copy protected DVD works.

I am really starting to like the LG 511 .. I have been using it exclusively for DIVX movies and the quality is outstanding. What I'll probably do is find a good Component based DVD player for all my other stuff. I'm starting to feel happy again. Plus I got my Component to VGA cable today from monoprice :)

CruelInventions

09-28-05, 02:26 PM

maybe I'm confused here, but.. I can understand how an HD signal (which started out as such) can look great even when downscaled to an ED 480p plasma, but I don't understand how a standard dvd, upscaled by the upscaling dvd player to an HD resolution, then back down again to the ED plasma resolution, will provide a similar benefit.

is this what is being claimed here? If that is the general consensus, I will certainly get an upscaling dvd player for my future ED plasma.

ClarkeBar

09-28-05, 05:49 PM

No, not exactly. The upconverted images are most useful (that is, more HD-like) on panels capable of rendering them natively. ED will always be 480P natively. To paraphrase what I wrote before---upconverting 480i is a different kettle of fish than downconverting a higher def signal. But if properly done it can yield significant improvements.

Obviously HD-DVD and Blue Ray will more closely render the PQ we now can achieve on 480P panels with HD signal as the source will be high def in the first place. But at these prices having an upconverting player in the interim is not a bad thing and the majority of them should still yield excellent 480P, though this has proven not to be so with some.

If you can wait until Mid Oct or so I will give you an honest assessment of the Zenith DVB318. There is a rather long 'Sticky' thread on this unit over on the DVD players forum here at AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=400480&page=1&pp=30

I have no intention of early adopting anything in the High-Def DVD market. If I had been I would have gone with an HD set. Again, if there's no magic to be found there, no harm done. I will either return it or keep it if 480P is up to snuff and at least the equal of my current player.

B0N3

09-28-05, 07:11 PM

I was under the impression that a transcoder was not needed for the RGB-DVI input .. I guess I was wrong.

Got my Component >> VGA cable today and when I plugged it into my STB all I got was a green tinted pic .. some of the resolutions were of an invalid format.

I figured a plasma that's fairly new would have this built in (transcoder). Since the setup menu has a RGB-PC and RGB-DVI option, one would think there'd be no problem.

So I thought it may have been a bad cable .. I ended up making my own Component >>VGA cable out of a CAT 5 cable and some spare parts .. it actually came out pretty good .. hooked it up and got the same results, green screen.

Am I doing something wrong here? I get the same green screen when hooking it into my DVD player. :confused:

denisl

09-28-05, 11:40 PM

Strange thing just happend.. Some of my HD channels were showing up as "scrambled". The only way I was able to get those channels back was to physically unplug the TV from the wall outlet..

What's that all about? Anybody else experience this? I'm using a cablecard.

ClarkeBar

09-29-05, 12:05 AM

Cablecard will give anomalous behavior.

I get scrambled signal notice when I have the unit off for a while...or power is shut off suddenly. I got it quite a bit yesterday during the equipment move and reconnect while testing connections. All I have ever had to do is change channels to restore proper signal recognition.

CruelInventions

09-29-05, 03:15 PM

thanks for the clarification, Clarkebar.

ClarkeBar

09-30-05, 06:29 PM

B0N3

09-30-05, 09:47 PM

Joe,

Sorry to hear about your problems...that is one sweet looking cable. (I saw the pic on another thread)

Did they perhaps miscode the color connectors? Did you try switching the green and blue just to see? I guess if you made your own and got the same result it isn't very likely a miscode.

Update on the 318...Amazon has shipped and it should reach me by the 5th and not the 12th. Whew! Will post up some results as soon as I can.

about the Zenith .. that's awesome .. I can't wait to hear your review. :)

about my cable BS .. I'm not sure what the deal is .. I called Zenith and I knew more than they did about the RGB input (which is pretty much nothing) .. plus I was aggravated so I made my own cable and recreated the problem.
I first thought that the cable may have been a miscode but got a solid green tint .. I plugged it in various configs and got either a solid green, red or blue tint.
The only other thing I can think of is that I got the wrong cable all together .. I won't post the link to monoprice, but they have a description of a cable (the one I bought) with this disclaimer:

12FT VGA to 3 RCA component video cable (HD15 - 3-RCA)

This cable doesn't support a computer monitor video port, or Y , Cr, Cb Video. Your video source should provide a YpbPr Component Video Signal from the HD 15 video ports to use this cable.
This cable can not convert the video signal from one type to another. Both devices must be compatible with the same signal. Do not assume that this cable will work just because you have a VGA port (ie. you can't use this cable to connect your PC to a device that only accepts component video, since PCs do not output component video).

This cable is for Satellite TV, HDTV, Component RGB Video, Y/ Pb /Pr Video and most LCD Projectors

Like I said, I know nothing about this RGB-DVI stuff, but too me this cable should have worked. If anyone here can set me straight please do .. could it be a problem going from analog to digital?

EDIT: for anyone that's interested in making a really cool cable, check out this link .. credit goes to MrWiggles from this forum:
http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/vgacable.html

ClarkeBar

09-30-05, 11:48 PM

Joe,

Can a simple cable replace one of these?

http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=9A60

Sure sounds like you need one.

BTW, finally found and ordered a credenza capable of holding all my gear and treating it properly that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Too many 'sweat boxes' around. Here's a link:

http://www.studiotech.com/products/component_cabinets/ultra_u-22/index.html

I got the natural cherry. Very similar to the Salamanders but less expensive. Salamander Designs sell everything 'a la carte' over there. Studio Tech gives you the whole working piece. In the accessories I especially like the rail kit and fan option. I'll get pics up soon after it arrives and I can get it all in place.

denisl

10-01-05, 12:26 PM

Hey Paul - nice credenza.. I'm looking also and let me tell you it's a difficult process to find on that I like. I've been to about 10 furniture stores and just about every online website!

Look forward to the 318 review.. .I'm still waiting for j&r or b&h to get the S97 in stock!!!

B0N3

10-01-05, 01:04 PM

BTW, finally found and ordered a credenza capable of holding all my gear and treating it properly that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Too many 'sweat boxes' around. Here's a link:

http://www.studiotech.com/products/component_cabinets/ultra_u-22/index.html

Thanks for the link .. I really like the rosewood Ultra U-22 .. It's the perfect size for my room. The wife really likes it. Ventilation is well done. It's definitely now at the top of my list. (I'm also searching for the "perfect" credenza).
The BDI stuff is just way too expensive.
Ikea has this:
http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=12&productId=51511&langId=-1&parentCats=10104*10174
I like the top shelf for my center channel .. Ikea is opening up a store in November, so I'll hold off until I actually see it.

ClarkeBar

10-02-05, 03:25 AM

Hi Denis,

Ain't it the truth? I warned my wife this might take some time. She has been very patient considering every room in the house is in flux and there is disarray everywhere you look. But sometimes you just have to update...and even with the best of plans, it just takes however long it takes. The Z42 arrived July 31 and is still sitting on our ancient TV stand used for 27" CRTs through the years. I should be ashamed.

Good Luck with your search.

Hey Joe,

I considered the Ikea Markor line... commented on it the other night on the Official Panny thread. AVS member Scrapple just bought it and has posted pics.

I like the piece a lot but found I couldn't use the side compartments for my AV
gear as there is no side ventilation and some of it wouldn't fit anyway. Of course it could always be customized which would make a whole lot more sense for that money. A few slots here and there would serve to help cool things down. I really like the height of the unit and the center section has good size. Guess I just have too much heavy, hot stuff to fit in there. Here's a minimum list:

HK 510 receiver (preamp duties + rears)
Chiro C-300 amp (frontstage)
JVC 70BK DVD player (hopefully the Zenith will work out and replace it)
Toshiba XS32 DVD recorder
Comcast Motorola 6412 HD DVR
HK CRD20 CD recorder
Belkin PF30 Power Console
and maybe one of the VCRs still lying around here so I can continue archiving some stuff on DVD

The Studio Tech is very Salamanderish with the metal grills. I don't really like giving up the visual readouts that you get with glass but you can't have everything. I considered the three unit Ultra U-22T but my alloted space dropped to no more than 60" across and still let the front speakers breathe properly. My poor Wharfedale towers have been compressed into too small a space for so long they won't know how to act. 4 foot separation has now doubled since our old display units/bookcases have been removed.

I do like the many accessory choices available with these Ultra units including the silver screening...but will stay with black. There are shots of silver trim with similar wood choices over on the Salamander Designs website if anyone is interested. They are great pieces but jeesh they are expensive by the time you put sides, doors and feet of choice on them.

B0N3

10-03-05, 11:04 AM

Some interesting spec info on the Z42PX2D:

According to Robert123:

The Z42 uses the new 10,000:1 rated panel. Specs on Zenith's site only give us 5000:1

10,000:1 sounds better than 5000:1 :)

ATRumbler

10-05-05, 03:56 PM

Just brought home my new Zenith, and I have a few really basic questions:

1. Is there a preferred method of getting a Time Warner feed between using their HD boxtop or using the cablecard? I understand with the cablecard that I will not have the station guide - is the picture quality using the cablecard substantially better than Time Warner's HD box to justify that loss? I don't watch many movies, and the dvd will be a small part of my experience.

2. I am currently using a S video connection for the video with componant RCA connections for sound. Would componant video give me a noticable improvement? Or would the HDMI connection be best? Also, the prices on these cables seem to be all over the board - DO I really need to spend $100 on a cable?

3. Speaking of which, the saleschild that assisted me attempted to get me to spend $100+ on a surge protector that would "condition" my power feed, giving me in his words both a better picture and better sound. I was really not inclined to believe him. Any truth to this?

4. What do I need to do to use this set as a computer monitor? I purchased the showroom model for a substantial discount ( and hopefully will not regret doing so, although a have 30 days to return it and am pleased so far). However, two things it does not have because of its showroom status are a remote (they ordered me a new one on their tab) and an owner's manual.

I am a completely new with this, so any input or guidance will be very appreciated!

B0N3

10-05-05, 09:07 PM

heya AT,

Lots to do here ..

1. Clarkebar can give you some good advice on Cablecard related stuff. He's been using it with his Z42 with excellent results.

2. first off, get some Component cables and take advantage of your HD box. S-Video just isn't going to give you near what Component will do for your PQ. The difference is amazing. You don't need to spend $100 for cables .. get some good cables but avoid the pricey Monster .. check out monoprice.com.
NO Monster cables. They're way too expensive.
I wouldn't bother with an HDMI cable just yet. If you end up getting a DVD player that'll upconvert via HDMI, you'll probably want to go that route.

3. Not sure about the saleschild advice .. I use a regular surge protector.

4. PC input is good via the RGB connection .. just make sure you White Wash frequently if you use it as a monitor. I wouldn't use it as a monitor during the first 100 hours .. there's a pretty indepth thread here on the plasma breakin period. Check it out.

If the panel doesn't have many hours on it .. I'd recommend the 100 hour breakin .. viewing full screen at around 20 per brightness, 20 contrast is what I did. It'll be worth it. The panel comes default in "torch" mode .. you'll have to crank down the contrast and brightness and use the "custom setting". The custom setting is memorized per input, which is a great feature.

I have my settings all below 40 with great results .. HD is spectacular.

This is kinda rushed because I'm watching the Red Sox get spanked again. You'll definitley get more feedback in the next few hours.
Grats on your purchase and enjoy!

ClarkeBar

10-05-05, 09:51 PM

Rumbler,

EDIT---Ooops! I see Joe beat me to it...that's what I get for trying to do a reply and watch LOST at the same time.

1) I use a Comcast HD DVR and a CableCard. Sorry I can't help with the TW delivery question directly. But on the general subject:

Let me say I was very surprised by the quality of signal through component with the Comcast HD DVR. I tried using the DVI out on the DVR to the HDMI in on the Z but there were issues even using a proper single cable and no adapter...so back to component I went. Long story short...CableCard with this system does not provide superior PQ even with direct connection. I consider both methods with Comcast are equivalent. I keep the CableCard for system simplicity as my wife prefers to use only the set and its remore when viewing. I think a great deal of this really depends on your providers signal quality and the service lines feeding your connection. Hopefully some Time Warner customers will pipe up. If not you simply have to try things out for yourself.

2) Immediately upgrade your cables to component. I mean tonight!!! :p This set has 2 superb component connections...make use of them!!! Now, as to whether or not you need to spend $100 bucks....NO!!! :eek: Go to Radio Shack and grab a set of Gold Series in the length of choice. Or order from the web...Blue Jeans cable is quite good and reasonable.

3) I recommend using some form of surge protection for your equipment. Exactly how much you need and what you should spend is as unknown as your system. For the set alone I would at least use a decent line protector but definitely anything Monster Brand is not required, if only due to cost comparison. I was fortunate in that a Belkin PF30 came bundled free with my set through online Best Buy purchase. With the amount of equipment I use it was an upgrade that was very much needed. You may only need a simple power strip...only you can tell.

4) Download the Manual at:

http://www.zenithservice.com/gcsc/b2c/hpi/main?tc=owm.command.OwmCmd

and refer to it until your copy arrives. You will need a VGA cable for computer use. Connect to the RGB input. The manual has tips for computer use.

Now, as to basics:

Reduce the levels to something below the midpoint on all settings. This may not be necessary in your situation as the set may have quite a few hours under its belt.

In order to find out you need to simultaneously press the Menu button on the set and the same button on the remote. Keep them depressed for several seconds. You will see a blue menu screen on the left. If the sequence is in order you will see the info you need on hours in service listed in this blue box. If you do not see it, repeat the same process and you will see the next menu. For now do not change anything in the service menu (if ever) until you know your way around. You can leave the menus safely at any time by pushing the menu button.

Always use the Orbiter function in the ISM menu. Also try several whitewash procedures to try and clear any images which may be imprinted due to demo/display use. You will see them by switching to any unused input and observing the dark screens. If you see them while watching source definitely use long sessions of whitewash to try and clear things up first. You want to know what you are dealing with from the gitgo.

I'll let the others chime in with things they think are also important.

Congrats on the new toy. :)

ClarkeBar

10-05-05, 10:26 PM

Hey Guys,

The Zenith 318 just arrived this evening. Will get something up on first impressions later.

Edit---New Post:

And now later it is. :)

First things first:

Beautiful unit. Now my system is exactly half Silver and half Black. Remote needs some work...uses a shuttle instead of dedicated buttons for motion. Will take some getting used to...me no likee.

The 318 comes very well equipped with the following cables:
DVI-DVI (I will get an adapter...not my favorite HDMI connection solution but for now I don't want to waste this cable), Component, S-Video, Composite and analog audio. The power line is hard wired in the back :( ...but not a problem as the 318 is now at the top of the stack as is the Power Console.

For now it is connected only through Component and Optical.

Right from the start the upconversion works through Component. My unit shipped with a Feb. 2005 sticker on the wrapper but pressing the upconversion button on the unit shows the process in action with the DVD logo onscreen. Now Copy Protected DVDs are supposed to be a different matter and I'm sure I'll need to backdate the firmware to get this. But so far most DVDs I've tried out for testing have upconverted successfully using Component. You need to stop play to effect upconversion however...no shift on the fly. I think the LG 511 to its credit did do this but I can't remember now. When I get the HDMI adapter I will put that connection through its paces as well.

What I see onscreen:

There is some macro-blocking in dark scenes and shadow detail. I have only seen it thus far on poor transfers with dark, grainy content to begin with. My usual suspects for testing---The Forgotten, Dark City, Birth, Jaded---all showed the issue. I will say that the out of box picture is brighter and closer to proper calibration by comparison to other players when used with my Custom setting on the plasma. Of course the 318 lacks any PQ adjustments at all which I do not like. But I guess it does simplify things and allows for any necessary adjustments to be done on the set.

Initially I see more artifacting with 720P even though it does the best improving the Graphical DVD logo. The artifacting is not noticeable until using a pause/step motion. During play it looks fine but still not as good as 1080i which wins both the play and step motion tests. Hair detail shows the difference very well. 480P is excellent and naturally smoother overall with less detail but also slightly duller in color. This is obvious even on the DVD logo screen where resolution artifacts are seen, especially on curves, along with duller color imagery overall.

I will get the adapter and also try out good quality transfers for the next installment. Am busy today for a good while but should have something by late tonight.

ClarkeBar

10-06-05, 09:58 PM

Zenith 318 part II:

Have both my older JVC 70BK and the DVB318 set up and simply switch the same component cables back and forth. Also obviously using the same DVDs for comparison. Prefer this method over using both Component connections to the set which would require different cabling and different inputs for each.

I am using the Z42 Custom setting to calibrate for each player and any difference lies mainly in the brightness level. THe JVC requires a very high 67 to pass muster while the Z needs only 37. All other settings are within a hair of each other or the same. The JVC does have PQ settings---two preset and two user---and I am using the preset labeled Normal which does give the best response in difficult situations.

Another thing to note---the Resolution changes show the following effects:

JVC 480P

Color field mottling and more pronounced jaggies on graphical images but very nice and what I've grown used to. Avia shows slightly better JVC greyscale fidelity than that of the 318. Color banding is about equal but slightly smoother on the JVC at 480P.

318 480P
Slightly greater color field mottling with jaggies about equivalent but color is somewhat duller---less vivid. Minor artifacting seems more noticeable due to higher internal sharpness even though Z42 sharpness is the same for both players. I would rate this performance slightly less than the 4 year old JVC.

318 720P
This is a strange one. Graphical imagery is clearly rendered better on this setting. Edges improve and sharpen and color saturation deepens to a noticeable degree. But normal content, especially when paused/stepped, has detail which contains more artifacts and yet at other times produces smoother, less detailed areas during play than even 480P. The same phenomenon holds true with HDTV. 1080i is simply better downscaled than 720P on every channel on which these differing resolutions can be found. This is directly related to the fact of the panels being 480P.

318 1080i
No surprise, we have a winner. The detail which can be somewhat lost during play with 720P is restored (and during pause/step play does not show the level of artifacts), the color fields are at their cleanest and equal in increased saturation to 720P and edges are virtually as sharply rendered. Color banding on the gray ramps of Avia is at its smoothest at 1080i which makes for generally smoother color gradients, especially in skies, backgrounds, etc.

Here is what I see:

Superb transfers like any LOTR are brighter on the 318 even with a lower Brightness level on my Custom setting. As the 318 lacks any PQ adjustments this is very gratifying. Low light and shadow detail are easily handled and I see no issues onscreen once calibrated. Macroblocking is absent even in suspect backgrounds. Again, this all applies to good quality transfers.

With marginal, grainy transfers containing lots of low light interior/exterior scenes like the test ones mentioned earlier, there may be some background and shadow detail anomalies but nothing major...perhaps a slice of background shadow with a strange glow or speckle/shimmer on the wall or in dark clothing. These are usually remedied with a small adjustment in the brightness/contrast or even the color saturation level.

Thoughts thus far:

Of course we will never see the true upconverted image on these 480P panels. When upgrading to an HD panel in the future of course this will change. Nevertheless, I believe this is a player I will keep. The internal calibration of the unit, at least as seen through component, makes this an easy decision.

As I have yet to try the HDMI adapter with the supplied DVI cable, I may recant this after getting into testing the HDMI connection on the Z42. It may lead to the same result as with the LG 511, even with a proper DVI-HDMI cable (which I might try as well...have to see the adapter in action first to get a sense of things). I really would like to make use of the digital DVI output (which also upconverts, of course) as this would allow me to use 2 different DVD players, each with their own strengths.

Will report back when more input testing is in the bag.

B0N3

10-06-05, 10:35 PM

great review Paul .. This is very tempting.
What I really like about the LG:
It does DIVX very well, which is the majority of my movie viewing.

What I would probably like better with the 318 .. better shadow detail and lowlight rendering.

I'm satisfied with the LG HDMI connection at this point and really don't want to start trying Component upconversion unless it is a drastic improvement over my current setup. Paul, you may be talking me into going that route .. but I'll have to stop myself and get off the ride .. hehe

I think .. as it stands now .. the Zenith 318 is the Component winner and the LG may take the prize as a multi-purpose HDMI unit. Of course this is for the - $200 range players. (I got a crazy cool deal on my LG after some haggling over an Internet price with a $30 rebate on top of that.)

All this makes sense .. the DVD players are all part of the Zenith/LG family .. why go with another brand at this price range.

ClarkeBar

10-07-05, 01:04 AM

Hi Joe.

Don't know how 'great' the review is but thanks for the thought.

I agree with your take on things...and am glad we are both happy with our new toys. (It seems both you and Denis are great shoppers. :) )

But I still very much want to hear what Denis sees when the S97S appears. That player is more like my old JVC in the sense that it has PQ adjustments up the wazoo. I always like being able to customize things and with the 318 this just isn't possible. But for $150 I can't fuss too much. Just having the upconversion work through component without any firmware change was a big plus. If I can make use of the DVI out - HDMI in situation, it will be icing on the cake. :p

I'll try and grab that adapter sometime today for sure and give the digital
connection a whirl. Hope to have something on it by tonight.

P.S. I think it's very decent of the mods to let us run off-topic here for so long? :)

jvernon

10-07-05, 11:01 AM

This has been an interesting read, but could you give more info on the EDTV itself and not on the DVD player? :)

How does it look on over the air digital channels (SDTV and HDTV)? Analog SD cable channels like Sci Fi, etc.?

How far back do you sit for the best picture? I would use it in the bedroom and watch from a distance of 6 to 8 feet.

Thanks! :)

ClarkeBar

10-07-05, 01:46 PM

Hello jvernon,

Apologies for running off course there.

Analog SD is always going to be analog SD. Your provider service will dictate most of the PQ but there are tweaks which can help. It is very hit or miss with provider quality and these sets whether HD or ED simply give you a higher rez view of a crappy signal if it exists.

DTV is another story. Again depending on service quality (but less so thankfully) 480i digital is excellent. Don't know why but some stations even look quasi-HD even though 480i. HD channels are superb, especially 1080i in my experience.

I have seating anywhere from 6 feet to 14 feet. It all looks good. SDE (screen door effect) is an issue with some people with EDTVs but I do not notice it until 3-4 ft. and even then it doesn't really bother me. When you are used to seeing Sony scan lines for years it hardens you up for this kind of stuff. :)

I plan to move the Z into the bedroom in a few years and will likely have the same viewing distance. Should be a gas.

B0N3

10-07-05, 02:34 PM

Most of my viewing has been OTA broadcasts .. I'm very impressed with the PQ .. OTA HD broadcasts are spectacular.

The zoom modes on the Z42 come in handy on the full screen local broadcasts. By using "Cinema Zoom" I can click it up to +13 and fill my entire panel with no distortion and minimal cutoff.

I sit at about 7-10 feet .. no SDE.

jvernon

10-07-05, 04:07 PM

ClarkeBar and Bon3, thanks for the info. The only place I have been able to see it was at Best Buy using a signal from Comcast Digital Cable. The picture was not all that impressive but I am inclined to blame Comcast as I have their analog cable which is atrocious. I did not expect their digital to be any better, just more crappy looking channels which apparently is what it is. :(

I would have two primary uses for it, I guess, and that would be DVDs and off air digital channels of which we have about 8 or so close by. And then of course the SD analog cable till HD takes over someday. No southern view so sattelite is out of the picture.

Thanks again. :)

ClarkeBar

10-07-05, 04:18 PM

jvernon,

Actually my Comcast Digital service here in Montgomery County, Maryland is very good for DTV. I agree with your sentiments about their analog delivery. Even great CRT cannot hide all of those flaws. But to their credit, since they bought out Cable Montgomery, which did the initial service line work years ago, they have consistently improved not only the line service but the programming. Digital service here is excellent and the HD channels delivered through the either the HD DVR or the CableCard connection are spectacular. I tried OTA for the local HDs when the set was first delivered but saw no real advantage since I got them through the standard cable service anyway. Since then I've obviously upgraded to Digital Plus service and am very glad I did. Discovery HD theater alone is worth the upgrade IMO. But throw in also ESPN HD and INHD1 & 2 and a few others of note and the package is a steal. (Now if I can just get my wife used to the new bill :D ).

I'm pretty sure the feed and/or the set was likely screwed up when you saw it. With the proper calibrated settings the PQ is all you could want for the money. The feature set is also top notch...and the sound is the real deal if you're not using a receiver...very powerful and rich.

ClarkeBar

10-09-05, 10:21 PM

This is my Z42 HDMI saga---

Got the cable adapter on Friday. Soooooo, off to assessing the DVI-HDMI throughput I went:

Even though the 318 manual states that DVI connection will supercede component when both are attached, I have no problems getting either signal on the Z. Have not yet installed the old firmware so component up-conversion on CP discs is not yet available. Tried out the usual test---Star Wars: AOTC---and sure enough, it will not up-convert through component even though it cycles through the resolutions on the display window and I can see the change on the DVD logo onscreen. Once play is hit it though, it reverts to 480P only.

As expected, there was no such problem through the DVI out. And thankfully, out of nearly a hundred DVDs tested so far, every non CP disc will up-convert through component .

Which brings us to---

I have discovered through a good bit of trial and error that the secret to getting proper DVI-HDMI results requires you to lower the color saturation substantially. When calibrating with AVIA using this input you should write down the resultant settings and then compare them to what is actually needed with normal DVD content and not test discs. When viewing normal DVD content on the Z using this input, the calibrated settings are substantially correct except for Color. On my set the calibrated value was 53. This proved to be the Achilles heel (more later).

Anomalies in dark, low lit background/shadow detail on marginal DVD transfers led me on a merry chase for quite awhile. Couldn't figure what was wrong since the settings were arrived at through DVD calibration discs like AVIA. But over time it became apparent just how sensitive these sets are when setting the Brightness/Contrast and using the calibrated color saturation setting...and much more so with the HDMI.

Varying from calibrated settings is nothing new but the reasons for doing so usually have more to do with personal preferences. But for some reason the HDMI input on the Z (and perhaps other sets as well) requires a substantial lessening of the Color value for proper rendering of background coloration and shadow detail, especially in scenes where the APL is low. When using the calibrated color value, the 10% IRE gray window of AVIA (which follows the Black screen) will be off colored from gray---in my case it was somewhat magenta (another set might show greenish or bluish depending). The next screen of 20% IRE value rendered a more proper gray tonality. If this off coloring with the 10% IRE screen is seen, any low light background colorations onscreen will not be be rendered properly. Again in my case, white walls in dark scenes had persistent areas of pinkish/magenta shadow tones and under the best of conditions only lessened, even when the APL rose with content of higher light value.

To begin to resolve the problem I reset all color values back to factory defaults in the Service Menu. This returned the out-of-box Green push previously seen with all low rez content...but that is something easily remedied and so not a concern. From there I re-calibrated for each applicable input type and then played particularly challenging scenes from selected DVDs mentioned in earlier posts. Still seeing various examples of color blocking, shimmers, spectral luminance etc., I kept trying to find the right combination of Contrast/Brightness one click at a time. But no matter what setting combinations I tried (again, never more than a few clicks from the calibrated results) the anomalies remained. This finally allowed me to figure out the culprit. After substantial color reduction, the anomalies were finally removed and dark shadow detail with low APL returned to normal. If I hadn't been so thick headed I would have taken more notice of the 10% IRE window discoloration and saved a lot of fine tuning. But the combination of the quick jump to gray tone with the succeeding 20% IRE window along with (I suspect) my distance from the screen literally kept me from 'seeing' the problem.

I now can report that the 318 is connected with both Component and HDMI (through supplied 318 DVI cable) and the results are now excellent on the Z42. The higher rez and higher screen Brightness achieved even with lower levels than that needed for Component finally make the digital connection something worthwhile. It is so good I may just free up the second Component connection to the Z42 and use it for something else.

Sorry for the long post but anyone who has followed the trials and tribulations endured by those of us attempting to incorporate the DVI-HDMI capabilities of this set will understand.

B0N3

10-09-05, 11:20 PM

thanks Paul .. this info is EXTREMELY useful .. never worry about rambling.
I am wondering if the issues you experienced with the LG could be rectified with a decrease in color saturation. If so, I'll be a very happy camper :)

ClarkeBar

10-10-05, 01:38 AM

Hi Joe,

Give it a try. I went from a calibrated setting of 53 down to 30. The problem disappeared. I am now in the process of moving the saturation back up slowly, trying to find the problem point. There usually is always a certain point at which a problem will show itself. This is more easily seen with Sharpness or Brightness settings...and with CRT sets, Contrast as well. I know with my Z42 there is a sharpness point of 47 where the detail jumps to a different level. One click down to 46---smoothness, one click up to 48---exaggerated detail begins. Same of course, applies to Brightness, with the same specific kind of sensitivity, something we are much more used to seeing using calibration DVDs like AVIA and running the PLUGE test. Here are my settings, both calibration derived and experientially (meaning anomaly-free) derived:

318 - Component / 318 - HDMI

Calibration: Experience: Calibration: Experience:

Contrast 45 45 / 45 45
Brightness 34 34 / 28 28
Color 54 34 / 53 28 -> 45 (safe range)
Sharpness 47 47 / 47 47
Tint -5R -5R / -5R -5R

As I found, the major variance to clean performance is Color Saturation and this appears to be the single key to all of the anomalous behavior I witnessed on all of the players yet tried through digital connection on the Z42. These include the Sammy 850, Oppo 971, LG 511 and the Zenith 318. Other possible artifacting and screen anomalies are simply not worth noting thus far and I have not done so. If something arises in further testing I'll raise a flag.

One thing noticed with the 318 I did find somewhat odd. A still picture judders at 1080i. Other resolutions are steady. During play at 1080i it is unnoticeable until pausing. And again, 720P wins the still picture contest with graphics but shows noticeably increased scaling artifacts with content, especially when paused or stepped. Upconverted 1080i is just the cats meow...even on this 480P panel. The AVIA gray ramps I found are surprisingly superior at showing the improvement over 480P in most critical regards.

You may also notice that I lowered the Color saturation even with Component. This was done more for preference reasons but there was still a connection to anomalous behavior which may well be related to the upconversion process itself. Further testing will tell the tale.

Whew! I'm tired. And if you've somehow read all of this to this point you certainly must be too. :p

STaylorgr8

10-10-05, 09:00 AM

ClarkeBar,

Im a newbie and don't really understand a lot of the technical stuff in previous posts. Can you please sumarize the following for me:

1. You are happy with the Zenith 318 and will keep this player for the Z42PX2D TV.
2. What DVD player output have you decided to use (component or DVI-HDMI)?
3. You are using the most current firmware on the new 318 DVD player? You didn't load an older version of firmware to have component upconversion?

From you technical testing, would you say this player yielded the best results on your TV? Im looking to pick a tv and dvd player up this weekend. Would you recomond this TV/DVD combo?

Thanks for all yoru input.

ClarkeBar

10-10-05, 10:00 AM

STaylorgr8,

I take it from your handle you are a Skins fan or at least a U fan? If so, Go Skins!!! Almost pulled out another one yesterday. Taylor is a Man-Child who brings constant wood. :eek: Even though a loss, still a good character building game for the team.

If not, please disregard my ramblings. :D

Answers:

1) YES

2) HDMI (using DVI 318 supplied cable and HDMI adapter) This is more so due to the higher Brightness achieved at lower setting and greater detail. 1080i up-conversion through Component though is likely still the overall smoothest so it's really a toss-up. I might maintain both but I kind of doubt it. This is why all the fuss in the first place...to get use out of the HDMI with minimal issues. Think I'm finally there.

3) YES, the newer firmware (2/05). Component upconversion does work but only for non-copy protected (essentially older) DVDs. DVI up-conversion works in all situations as is. I may not backdate the firmware now if staying exclusively with the HDMI-DVI. If any further issues arise from use of this input which cannot be solved, I can always switch to Component and backdate for full up-conversion.

Don't rule out the LG 511 when considering players. I had the earlier issues with it but that was before I did the more thorough HDMI oriented troubleshooting with the 318. I believe that player shifts on the fly (upconverts while playing) which is a nice perk and saves a few seconds. Hopefully Joe will get back soon and report if his color desaturation also worked for him with the LG and cleared up any remaining PQ anomalies.

Good Luck with your choices. :) If you decide on the Z42 we are all here to help with any issues. You may not observe any Green push with low rez content but if you do we can walk you through the cure.

STaylorgr8

10-11-05, 09:38 AM

Thanks ClarkeBar,

No, Im not a skins fan. Taylor is my last name however. I will follow up once I purchase the TV and give you my thoughts.

Thanks again for all the information you provide.

denisl

10-13-05, 09:13 PM

Paul - excellent news for a Faroudja chip based player and positive results. Did your Oppo endure the same vigorous testing as did the 318?

I'm losing my patients for the S97 to come in at J&R. I called them yesterday and no ETA. I think I may just go with the 318 or 511 since both you and Joe have reported good results.

Anyway - great review. Thank you for the time you put into this. It's extremely helpful.

BTW - here are a couple of my "It's been a month and this is kinda annoying" observations..

1. Cablecard - channel changing is very slow to change between channels. Takes the fun out of channel surfing. However, the PQ wins the battle between the cablecard and cablebox so I'll keep the card.

2. "Fan free noise free operation" - there should be a footnote in that statement saying that if you use a cablecard - say hello to the constant, quiet - only noticable when the tv is turned off, fan. I don't understand why this little fan has to be on 24/7. When the TV is off I would expect the fan to turn off. I guess I'm more afraid that the fan is eventually gonna burn out..

ClarkeBar

10-13-05, 11:32 PM

Hi Denis,

I know...that little fan drove me crazy at first but you get used to it...it really isn't loud at all.

I did roughly the same testing for all of the players I've tried out. Unfortunately, reducing the calibrated color saturation through HDMI/DVI didn't even occur to me as necessary until I tried it with the 318...so some or all of them may have been helped in this regard. Too late for me to tell.

I love the 318. I did backdate the firmware and now have component upconversion on all discs including copy protected. Now that I've done it I prefer it to HDMI/DVI simply because it renders with less artifacting. No matter what I do I cannot get the HDMI input on this set to give me signal across the board without some anomaly showing up, especially in light challenged scenes. The same images through component show no problems.

After backdating, the DVI out will now no longer work. So I've taken the 318 DVI cable/HDMI adapter setup and am using it on the Comcast DVR. Will see how that works out. I still have that unit also connected through component just in case. Tonight out of nowhere I noticed a split screen effect through the HDMI input with the DVR. I am starting to get very tired of all this crap with these digital inputs/outputs.

Good Luck with whatever you settle on. It would be a shame to miss out on the S97 but I understand how frustrating waiting can be. Maybe try out one of ours in the meantime. OTC purchase will at least allow for return.

Rammitinski

10-15-05, 04:20 AM

How would y'all rate the the OTA ATSC tuner in this set? Is it a 5th generation chip? Anyone done any comparisons? I'm very interested to know. Thanks - Steve

Rammitinski

10-18-05, 05:10 AM

Bump.

ClarkeBar

10-18-05, 03:01 PM

Sorry for the delay. Been having DSL problems since last mid-week. I'm using both Cablecard and a HD DVR but when I first got the Z I used a Terk set top to check out the HD OTA. I was able to pull in quite a few stations here just NW of Wash., D.C. Since I already had analog cable I didn't need the Terk for local HD OTA but I wanted to see for myself with that setup. The tuner seemed quite capable in my limited experience... but each locale likely differs in quality...and number of stations.

Don't know about the technicals. You might shoot a PM to member Robert123. He seems to be the LG/Zenith info man around here.

denisl

10-19-05, 12:59 PM

Ordered the S97S today from J&R... Finally in stock.

Rammitinski

10-19-05, 02:31 PM

denisl

10-22-05, 01:14 AM

I have the S97 hooked up with both HDMI and Component. I have done ZERO calibration for the inputs. I will get that done ASAP with my DVE DVD.

I'm watching Star Wars AOTC right now and it is amazing in 1080i - hdmi.

Component I can only get 480p so I guess this is a hdcp dvd. I'll have to try another DVD.

Can you guys recommend a good DVD to use to test with?

I'm tired and have a full day tomorrow - hopefully I'll have a full review on Sunday.

So far - no MB.

B0N3

10-22-05, 11:25 AM

Thanks for the info. How does the Zenith do with SD?

Using D* HD, the SD channels come in nice. I have my STB set to "720p only". This will stretch the SD pic nicely without giving me a horrible "squashed look". I zoom all my stuff to fill the screen .. I was actually pretty surprised on how good the PQ of SD content looked on the Z.
I view all my locals via OTA and only watch the HD/DTV versions.

It depends on your source I guess .. what do you have for a feed?

B0N3

10-22-05, 11:34 AM

Can you guys recommend a good DVD to use to test with?

I'm tired and have a full day tomorrow - hopefully I'll have a full review on Sunday.

So far - no MB.

I use Nemo as a first test.
The first chapter (I think) when the Disney logo appears against the solid blue background. If you see "flickering artifacts" instead of solid blue there's a potential problem. I always focus on the entrance to the "castle" and make sure it stays blue instead of flashing white.
I know this sounds pretty insane, but if a DVD player can't pass this initial test .. it's out the door.

Rammitinski

10-22-05, 06:22 PM

I've got E* SD and digital OTA (Accurian tuner). Some E* channels look good and some (over-compressed) look not-so-hot.

ClarkeBar

10-23-05, 02:56 AM

Whew!!! Got my week long DSL nightmare finally straightened out. The back-up AOL dial up stuff was killing me.

A few notes:

Just watched "Batman Begins" on the Z 318. Was also setting up my subwoofer back into the equipment mix and needed to view its setup configuration with my receiver on the Z42 Video input---which for me is S-Vid. I have to say, the quality was so good (even with receiver pass-through) I completely forgot all about viewing through the S-Vid connection rather than the component. In fact, when I finally remembered and switched over to it, the Component 2 input showed a decided Green color push by comparison where the S-Vid showed much more neutral and natural coloration. The movie has a great many dark and murky scenes which helped me to finally determine effective and anomaly free Brightness and Contrast levels, especially in terms of shadow detail, for the S-Vid (Video) input.

I have discovered that many of the regular non-premium Movie channels supplied with cable DTV service often are difficult to handle in terms of shadow detail. Either the screen needs to be made too dark or it shows background lighting anomalies in shadow detail and coloration. They appear to be directly related to a combination of Chroma Noise and Macro-Blocking. I believe the severe compression involved in signal delivery, along with the content condition and type of source transfer and processing, are largely responsible and especially problematic when viewing on full screen. Much of this content is best viewed at 4:3 anyway where problems are minimized and fortunately the grey bars are no longer a problem with screen image retention. It is noticeable, but not unexpected, that these particular issues rarely ever show themselves with analog SD (although that has enough problems of its own) but do so most frequently with Digital 480i. MPEG demons are rampant and MPEG 4 cannot get here soon enough for me. I don't think I've ever seen any kind of anomaly with HD except for maybe an occasional banding or ringing effect in skies or underwater scenes which is usually easily adjusted for in the menu.

While still very happy with the Z42 I have to admit to wondering what the sub-pixel control of the Pannys would yield in terms of these issues... rarely ever reading of anyone complaining of the things I encounter. Perhaps a resolution is something yet to be discovered in the Service Menu. My Gamma and PS Mode values in the Module Control portion of the Service Menu were both set at 0 which causes a high (but not the highest) base screen Brightness and makes the transition from well lit scenes to overly dark scenes difficult to manage without strange onscreen behavior. I have switched Gamma to 3 which has increased color saturation and darkened the screen, though not as severely as the 1 value setting in Gamma. I will need to put the set through its paces to see if this will be of lasting help. Time will tell. Already SD is looking better overall with this change.

Also have to say I am extremely pleased with the quality of the inputs thus far and hope that HDMI will continue to improve. As I have upconversion through component with DVD, I use the HDMI for the HD DVR connection and so far it works very well (after some initial setup problems).

I'll upload some pics of my setup and maybe edit this post to include them tomorrow.

Edit: OK...here's some halfway decent shots. No screen shots as cameras never seem to do justice to the PQ onscreen and somebody always feels the need to critique the TV settings from a stupid down-sized and compressed image. :mad:

Also I have changed the Mode settings back to 0 for Gamma (3 was still too deeply crayon-like in coloration with SD and the Contrast effect was over-boosted) and 2 for PS Mode. Will try this for awhile and see if it helps.

denisl

10-24-05, 09:48 PM

Alright - I finally made it through enough of DVE to understand the basic of video calibration. I guess DVE is a couple of hours of explaining stuff - and then test screens. So now that I know what the screens mean.. Here's what I came up with:

HDMI:
Contrast: 53 (I have no idea what I'm doing here)
Bright: 68
Color: 52
Sharp: 56
Tint: R4

I also calibrated component2 which was significantly different then my hdmi port. I realize now that I need to get a better movie DVD to use because all I have is Star Wars (worth using - I'm just moved so can't find things) and I can't upconvert over component.

So - over hdmi I haven't seen any Macroblocking - I think. I really have never seen MB before so it's hard to say. At some times the picture appears to be a little fuzzy - hard really to describe but sometimes it almost looks like the faces are like a teddy bear texture. Maybe it's slight SDE..

I also noticed on the DVD Panasonic logo (hit stop on a movie) the blue around the word DVD has blotchy black areas. This is a still picuture. What is this? MB?

Picture quality is excellent otherwise. Like I said only certain pictures look fuzzy - less then 5% of the time.

So how do I set contrast? I'm using DVE.
How do my settings look?

Paul - nice setup.

Almost forgot - upconvert 720p and 1080i are about the same in PQ and slightly better then 480p. But I'm still learning..

ClarkeBar

10-25-05, 01:23 AM

Hi Denis,

You need to use something simpler like AVIA which doesn't make finding and using the actual test screens such a mystery. I swear the guy who compiled DVE must have his head up his a**. Don't misunderstand, I use both discs...but when I want it quick and painless, its AVIA. Also, if you want to test your calibrated settings you need to dig out some older DVDs and start watching. If you're anything like me, it shouldn't take too long before you start playing with the Menu settings, trying to find answers for what appears onscreen.

Isn't it funny how different the inputs calibrate? Of course the S97 has numerous PQ adjustments available so that may be playing a role in your settings. Don't know if there is a base or normal mode...so it's hard to speculate.

As reported in the earlier post, I am seeing all kinds of MB with Chroma noise associated on channels with high compression such as the various non-premium Movie channels. It shows up in sections of background detail, especially in low light/half light situations. The walls or areas of peoples clothing will have anomalies as the detail contained there, especially in marginal light, is simply disregarded by the compression. You end up with weird moving block patterns or flickering/shimmering sections of background highlighted with odd coloration. Again, these things occur in situations of marginal light or shadow detail where light and dark values meet. As yet I have found no real cure and it can be seen in almost any digital transfer or 480i source of marginal quality.

What I use to minimize this is to darken the image (going below the calibrated Brightness) to such a degree that the anomaly is no longer visible...and sometimes even this cannot be done completely, no matter how low the Brightness setting. Most of the Digital movie stations provide almost continuous examples of the issues involved. And the settings will even need to be different on different stations. This is one reason behind my more recent efforts in the Service menu.

Recent DVDs, especially those of Mega movies like any SWs, are generally of too high a quality to see these things (unless a set is truly way out of calibration). With these discs they usually take too much care to let these things pass through. I refer you to this website in case you are unfamiliar with it:

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/

He has provided a decent exemplar library of artifacts. They can be found in the technical articles under the Articles heading. When you see how many of the things we have seen on a routine basis are the products of bad transfers, you may perhaps become more tolerant of this crap as I have attempted to do. Tolerant...but never accepting. I will always seek to minimize what I can where possible. Unfortunately full screen ED and HD only serve to make these things more apparent. But at least understanding where the issues come from makes it a little easier to take.

Oh, almost forgot. I guess you've discovered that setting the Contrast on these things works differently than CRT. When you look at the factory pre-sets and see the outrageously high Contrast levels for them (and the consequent PQ problems seen on virtually any channel or using them with any source), you come to figure out that too much Contrast is a bad thing, for sure. But since the test needles don't bend and the test boxes don't bloom, no matter the Contrast level, just where should Contrast be set when adjusting Brightness? This is just one of the real tricks to calibrating these babies, especially since they interact with each other. Starting with a value of 50 is not a bad idea IMO. You can work up or down from there as needed.

I have found it just about impossible to use the specific calibrated settings for a particular input with any and all material viewed on that input. There is simply too much variation in imaging content, quality, transfer processing (where applicable), compression (also where applicable) etc. Something invariably shows up and needs some adjusting. I fear this is going to continue for quite some time until HD content from whatever sources becomes more of a staple. At least HD has a better chance of handling Cable/SAT compression with much less artifacting on these bigger screens and with MPEG-4 it should be safe even after compression (which is a given with continuing growth in HD content). As for HD-DVD, let's hope this brings an end to bad transfers and the problems they engender onscreen once and for all.

B0N3

10-25-05, 03:48 PM

Clarkerbar,

I admire your adventurous journey into the Service Menu. You've probably gotten the Z looking pretty sweet by now.
I have become very wary of making anymore changes

.. that being said:

I've decided that I will become the first Zenith Z42PX2D user to have a pro ISF calibration done.

A good friend of mine, Jim Doolittle, is going to hook me up. I've known Jim for many years and he's been calibrating TVs since 1994. You may have heard his name or seen his pic up on the ISF website. He's one of the three main players at ISF.
http://www.imagingscience.com/personnel.htm

I think that I have the settings pretty much down .. but I'd really like to see what a pro calibration will do .. basically get this sucker industry standard for optimal movie viewing. I know Jim will take care of me and spend time getting this thing tweaked nicely.

He'll probably stop by this month (hopefully) and I will post some results.

denisl

10-25-05, 07:49 PM

That website is great - I have to say I haven't seen MB yet. I just got home from work so I gonna go look for another DVD and play a bit.

Once I locate a DVD that I can upconvert over component I'll make a final decison if I'm gonna keep it or not. So far - it's a keeper.

ClarkeBar

10-26-05, 12:04 AM

Hey Joe,

That is great news. :) I've been considering doing the same. I know it seems like overkill, especially for an EDTV. I will likely wait until you have yours done and you report back. Even more than the strengths, try to pay attention to what he finds are the weaknesses.

If you're agreeable, I look forward to picking through your results. And also, if you would, please PM me about any associated costs. Hmmmmmm? I think I just might smell a proposition in the air. :p

denisl

10-26-05, 07:53 PM

Well, as much as it pains me, I'm going to return the S97S. I just can't seem to get the PQ to look as good as I was hoping. After reading another thread and getting specific scenes where MB is present in AOTC I now can see it.

Honestly - the picture is good. But I also have a Norcent $19 progressive scan DVD player that I hooked up side by side using the composit video (single yellow) and the difference between the ~$270 Panny and the ~$20 Norcant was minimal. Sure the Panny was better but slighty.

So now I'm either going to get the 318 or more likely the 511. I kinda like the vacuum loading in the 511 and the memory card slots so I'm leaning in that direction.

I had both players hooked up and switched between the two and didn't tell my girlfriend which was which and she couldn't tell the difference until I pointed out how the Panny had MB and the norcant didn't. I had the panny set to 480p, 720p and 1080i. The norcent was 480p.

I expect a good DVD PQ should be on par with HD sports like ESPN. Shouldn't DVD PQ be at least equal to that of HD programming?

ClarkeBar

10-27-05, 01:39 PM

Hey Buddy,

Sorry the Panny didn't work out. With the 318, still test graphics at 1080i yield better color fields, even over 480P but during play the 720P seems better suited for everything except still/advance where artifacts are more apparent. Did you notice any picture jitter with the Panny at any resolution? Easier to see when just the logo is onscreen as it is hard to detect with content unless you're right on top of the screen. I ask because I get it with the 318 at 1080i...very slight bounce. Everything else is fine. .

This is the only knock I have against it so far. After backdating the firmware I lost the DVI upconversion but that is not a problem as I could not find a satisfactory calibration on the Z42 with HDMI for DVD play no matter what player I've tried. This may or may not have been related to the fact that an HDMI input cable adapter was usually necessary for Z connection, except for the 511. I did like the 511 otherwise and it gave a very nice component picture even though strictly 480P.

Lately I have been trying different experimental settings both in and out of the Service Menu to try and clean up various inputs. Analog SD is now considerably better though it will never be truly good, especially with my Comcast analog feed. DTV 480i is still excellent and HD is always over the top. My biggest complaint has been against the signal quality and compression found on the non-premium Movie channels. Because viewing them with any satisfaction requires different settings than the rest of DTV including HD, it is problematic as all of CADTV has one setting memory. At least CATV is separate. If I reset settings on CADTV input to make those particular channels watchable, then HD gets darker than it needs to be. The beauty of HD though is the HUGE range of calbration and settings options which are available due to the high level of picture content. It is almost impossible to get a bad picture with any setting...it seems the picture just gets darker or lighter depending. But we all know the slim margins allowed with lesser content. Get it wrong and it is just wrong period.

Also found the S-Vid implementation in the 318 to be the equal, if not superior in many important respects, to the component out. This shocked me as I have always been a fan of cleaner detail which component generally provides. While this machine provides upconversion through component and is the main, but not the only reason for purchasing, there is a slight green tinting with component which is simply not seen with the S-Vid. The Blacks of the S-Vid are simply Blacker because of it. Skin tones are more pleasing to the eye, etc. AND THIS IS WITH S-VID PASS THROUGH FROM THE RECEIVER. Yikes!!!!!!! The component goes straight to the Z42. Maybe I should run the component through the receiver as well? Hmmmmmm? And being honest, it may also be that the component is delivering a more accurate color picture and I simply prefer the look of the S-Vid by a hair. And this can change according to different DVDs anyway. Uncertainty on this score is why I do not count it as a minus and will continue to use the component side and its upconversion, especially for the cleaner detail.

Good Luck with your choice. Both players now under consideration look sharp and perform well depending on what you value most. And I think the upconversion on the 511 is shift-on-the-fly unlike the 318. Can't really remember though. Joe would know.

Oh, as to your last question...I would not expect any 480i source to yield equivalent PQ to HD, especially when blown up to fill these screens. Upconversion can help but it's essentially trickery. Just look at the results on HD channels when commercials and other internal content are run which are clearly not HD. They may be upconverted or not but you can easily spot the difference between the studio feed and anything else, even on our 480P panels.

denisl

11-04-05, 10:34 PM

Just came home with the LDA-511. I put in ATOC and PQ is about the same as the S97 was. I've yet to calibrate the hdmi port with this player so hopefully it will only get better. Definately not a big deal. The 511 was 1/2 the price of the S97 and looks to be a nice player so far. I do like the memory card slots - nice added feature.

The resolution can be changed changed on the fly via a button on the front of the player - unlike the S97 where you can change the resolution via the remote (although it was about 4 levels deep in the menu on the S97).

Okay - going to watch a movie.

B0N3

11-06-05, 08:29 PM

Finally got my plasma mounted .. here are some pics.
Low profile mount by Sanus. Guess where I put the wires (HINT: not in the wall)

http://www.casola.com/images/z1.jpg

http://www.casola.com/images/z2.jpg

http://www.casola.com/images/z3.jpg

ClarkeBar

11-10-05, 07:31 PM

Very nice setup Joe. And great color images...did you use a tripod and fast shutter speeds or a frozen image?

I have always liked that clean open glass look and in fact my first stand ordered from BB with the Z42 was very similar. But the amount of wiring visible from the sides with my level of equipment simply proved a no-go. New wallpaper precluded a wall mounting as well so that left few options other than a regular credenza/stand with the center speaker mounted behind the Z (with level adjusted, of course).

I assume the wiring is hidden behind the draperies which would be especially clever. I'm sure I'll have to do something equally clever when the Z gets moved upstairs and a new larger HD goes in its place.

Wonder how Denis is doing with the 511? I'm sure you've become quite the expert with it by now.

I have discovered a continuing green push even with altered Service menu settings with my component 2 input (Z 318). In fact older 480i transfers are especially good at showing the problem. As I also run S-Vid as well as component, I have taken to running all older DVDs through that input and achieve much better color results. Of course the upconversion is lost but some DVDs are simply not meant for that and I reserve it for newer material almost exclusively. I have switched out cables as well as altered color values and the problem lingers. It may well be a problem with the Z 318 but time and more experimentation will tell. Perhaps I will return to the DVI/HDMI input and experiment some more. Previously I was unable to find a satisfactory calibration level using DVI/HDMI which was free of anomalies, even with recent DVD transfers. So much of this still seems hit or miss. One can only hope HD-DVD/Blue Ray will yield better results, no matter the input...to the same degree that HDTV renders near flawlessly compared to any other input resolution.

B0N3

11-10-05, 08:24 PM

heya paul,

the wires are coming out the left side and behind the drapes .. pretty easy to guess that .. hehe. The mount is only 1.25 from the wall and I was worried that the cables from the TV would get crushed. There seems to be just enough room without fully compacting the cables .. i was relieved.

the pics are from a 5MP Sony .. just using auto levels, no tv freeze. i hate when people take pictures of a tv picture .. it really makes no sense.

I'm really liking the LG for DIVX mostly. I don't watch too many DVDs. I feel that the LG is serving its purpose as HDMI filler. I've given up fighting for the "perfect player" .. I'm just so satisfied with HD TV on the Z42 that it really takes up most of my viewing time.

Also, my Xbox serves as an exeptional HTPC via component. I can view movies and play just about anything through it from my LAN. Gaming is spectacular .. right now I'm into Star Wars Battlefront II .. very cool and I'm not even a Star Wars fan!

Maybe you should work on the DVI/HDMI with the 318 a bit more. I think the green push may be a 318 thing because I don't notice it at all on any of my component outs. I'm sure you'll get that thing tweaked to it's fullest. I have my color temp on cool with 37,37,38,40,0 for settings on the main video menu (Component 1). Maybe that'll work on yours .. looks great in my room.

Haven't called Jim Doolittle back yet. I really don't think I need ISF calibration because I'm so used to the way it is now. I don't mess with the settings as much, and that's a miracle for me. When I get some time off I may call him just for the hell of it. I'll keep you posted.

LBOCEAN

11-18-05, 05:21 PM

Yo All...

After much research myself within the ED market, I've decided to pickup the Z42 as well. Delivery date is set for Dec 1, as we are in the process of moving into a house and everything is, well, you know what its like when moving.

I orginally was gleaming at the Pana ED, then realized something was'nt quite right. Sure enough, when watching the DTV commercials long enough, a black n white commercial (kinda like back in the Bogart days) came about and the Pana problem stuck out like a sore thumb! GREEN PUSH. After several visits around town, consistancy was found amongst all I had located.

Back to Ken Cranes were they had the Pana ED / Z42 / HP ED (from left to right) up on the wall. The salesman had no idea of the problem until I pointed it out. Surprisingly the HP (new thing on the market) is also made by Pana, and sure enough, it also has the same GREEN Push issue, but not as bad.

Mean while, sitting pretty between the two was the Z42.

:)... Need a thsay anymore

I havn't read through this entire thread, yet! But have noticed on the first page in, much talk about PQ and HDMI. My input from friends in the TV industry and experience of my own is that RGB connections are your best bet. HDMI circuits are weak when it comes to passing the quality of image, its like 2-3rd generation of a recording (if you will).

I tested this theory on a friends Samsung 50" and found the RGB connection provides a much cleaner picture. You may even notice when you go to Big Screen TV Outlets, peaking at the backs of the units, they generally hookup via RGB as well in order to get the best pic.

I do have one immediate interest here, someone mentioned having the P42W46X that has PIP. My question to you is... Is the unit older than the Z42 that most here have purchased, or is it a current model? Also, what are the major differences you've picked up between the two models? Finally, how do you like the PIP on the unit?

Will be getting back soon....

ClarkeBar

11-19-05, 12:51 AM

Hello LBOCEAN,

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with you on the HDMI. Several of my AVS buds here are using the HDMI with their players and I think through trial and error they are having success. I just think it is still too hit or miss in terms of implementation. After my various equipment tests, Component appeared the best way to go which is why I bought the Zenith Component upconverting DVD player. Right now I have an HD DVR dual-connected through the HDMI using an adapter (DVR is DVI-out) as well as through component. PQ is simply better using component which looks the most like the PQ results obtained through Cablecard. And when both inputs were calibrated (using the Zenith player and test discs), I still preferred component. I also found using the HDMI more difficult to achieve a satisfactory calibration for any/all material, no matter the resolution or source (although this may well have been related to the need for a cable adapter as the Zenith 318 is also DVI-out). In a year or two, when this set goes into the computer room, I will use it primarily with an HTPC setup and make use of the RGB PC connection. I'm hopeful that will yield excellent results as well.

As to Green Push, you may yet see it with the Z42...but at least it is correctable with this set due to the generous Service Menu control. With my local Comcast delivery, I quickly saw objectionable Green push in low-rez content and dark scenes especially. A few adjustments to the cuts and gains cleared this right up. It appears the factory adjustments are geared towards maximum brightness and the internal color settings reflect this, unfortunately at the expense of tinting black towards Green with low-rez content. This is generally not observable with Hi-Def however although there are some CBS shows which seem to prefer this color tinting. I wish it were not so...the Matrix look is getting old.

Good Luck with the set.

LBOCEAN

11-20-05, 11:29 AM

... And when both inputs were calibrated (using the Zenith player and test discs), I still preferred component.

...A few adjustments to the cuts and gains cleared this right up.

Clark, Thanks for the welcome. A few questions back to you...

Q1: Calibration Test Disc - Where can I aquire one of these

Q2: (Perhaps this is more of a comment rather than a question). It would be great if we could have a sub-thread here that would allow us to keep track of everyone's personal settings.

ClarkeBar

11-21-05, 12:06 PM

Hello again,

AVIA or Digital Video Essentials OTC at places like BB or Circuit City. Sometimes they can be hard to find OTC although, if there, they will be in the Special Interest DVD section. I find it is usually best to go with Amazon.

AVIA is easiest to use, the original Video Essentials is also quite easy but the Digital Video Essentials can be a bear to use and navigate. It was not well thought out but it has screens not found anywhere else. Through the years I've come to own all three as each of them does certain things better or faster or easier or more thoroughly, etc.

AVIA gives separate RGB color filters, Video Essentials gives one blue filter and DVE gives RGB color filters on a single card. They are darker to see through but are supposedly more accurate. I find using the blue filter from any of them with any THX Optimizer is all that is needed to stay tuned up after initial calibration work.

90SPGred

11-24-05, 01:11 AM

I'm new at plasma. Got a Zenith Z42PX2D EDTV from BB 2 weeks ago. Viewing is 40% SD (4:3), 40% VCR (4:3), with 20% HD (16:9) in the evening. This plasma provides a great display in all modes! Just what I needed. I retired a 36" Sony CRT (KV36HS510) for this Zenith, and I'm pleased!!!!!

Read lots in MASTER BURN-IN THREAD. I set all video items under half-way in the menu, and I'm not using 4:3 mode yet. I'm using ZOOM 2 to fill the screen when 4:3 is the input. I'm not obsessed about burn-in, but I'll respect the display.

Is there some way to determine how many hours of use my unit accumulates? Or do I just guess, based on my 5-hour-per-day estimate? I want to do break-in of 125 hours.

I plan on getting AVIA in a couple weeks, but haven't any idea how it functions. I think it generates test patterns thru the DVD player, and tells me how/what to adjust? Do I have to access adjustments/menus other than the standard ones in the Remote Control "MENU" function? Or does AVIA simply use the standard Menu Adjustments from the Remote? Or does AVIA use on-screen prompts for the adjustments, and I input thru the DVD remote (how would that adjust the plasma?)?

Do I need any special DVD Player to use AVIA to best advantage? My current DVD Player is about 2 years old Panasonic DVD-S35. It has Component Video Out (which I'm using) and S-Video out.

Not looking for AVIA directions, just very basic idea of how it is done. And I'm open to suggestions, also.

TIA!

ClarkeBar

11-24-05, 01:53 AM

Hello 90Spgred,

Press and hold the Menu button on the remote and set simultaneously. It takes a few seconds. There are two menus...the first one up should be the one you are interested in. You will see your service hours listed in the blueish box on the left. (My advice: Do not change anything you see in any Service Menu without writing it down...better yet, check here first.)

Using Avia is a cinch...very straightforward. The only problem I have using it with the Z42 is the set internal menu positions sometimes block or interfere with items on the test screens. Also, when any TV menu items are onscreen, Brightness is affected a few clicks worth up...so you will need to compensate by lowering a few clicks down to finalize when the TV menus are removed. You don't need anything special in the way of DVD player...just use component and/or S-Vid if you have it to kill two birds (calibrate both inputs) with one stone.

If you still have the CRT, you may want to calibrate both Set types. It may help to understand the differences between them. Unlike CRT, setting the Contrast with Plasmas is possible virtually anywhere in the range without causing any obvious changes in the test screens...but it is certainly best to use a lower Contrast setting than anything seen with the many presets. Brightness also can be very different and as Contrast and Brightness are intertwined, one can see settings for each which would never be obtained with CRT. Some input types can require a remarkably high Brightness level for calibration and another input type a much lower one...even with similar Contrast level. Until you are using Avia, I would recommend using the THX Optimizer found on many discs. It is surprising how close both results can be.

90SPGred

11-25-05, 11:33 PM

ClarkeBar, I appreciate the response. Yes, I found the Service Menus, and won't randomly change anything. Hopefully tomorrow I'll find time to familiarize myself with them, and write down all settings/values. I tried a bit of Digital Photography, found a way that works well, and may just photo each menu step.

I still need to get AVIA. I need a couple other items from Amazon, and may simply add AVIA. Thanks again! :D

ClarkeBar

02-08-06, 04:35 PM

Long time no post on this thread. Thought I'd see if any Z42's owners are still out there and how they're doing. We must be a happy bunch as we seem to lack the various daily complaining I see in the other, more popular threads. :p

Heads-up to old and new users:

Green is the Achilles heel with most of these plasmas.

If you are annoyed with any lingering green tint seen usually in dark or low-lit scenes (but not exclusively), especially seen with dark hair, facial 5 o'clock shadows, etc. and most especially seen with SD content, do the following:

simply enter the service menu as described in previous posts and move the Green Cut in the White Balance sub-menu down from 64 to something more satisfactory. Trial and error is the best teacher here but a move from 64 down anywhere to the 58-50 range should do the trick with 44 being the lowest I would go. This also helps to lessen any lime-green tonality seen with greens in general. Leave the gain values alone. If the value you settle on removes the green tinting sufficiently but leaves a slightly reddish or bluish tone simply lower that particular cut a few clicks, again using trial and error.

Without proper equipment it is difficult to calibrate with technical certainty... but the eye knows what it likes and doesn't like to see onscreen. If flesh tones are not compromised, any changes we make to lessen the green tinting in darks/blacks is a bonus. :)

B0N3

02-08-06, 05:38 PM

ClarkeBar

02-08-06, 06:07 PM

To paraphrase the one and only Hendrix...

Hey Joe....where you going with that remote in your hand? :D

All is well in Z land. At least to the point of recognizing what problems/issues can be attributed to the provider/signal and what belongs to the set.

For the Cablecard users and especially those dealing with Comcast:

Loss of particular channels can many times be restored with a simple card removal and re-insert after a few minutes. (For me the problem ones are always 225-> 227). If not, a quick call to customer service and a request for a card hit almost always does the trick after a short interval. For me (don't know why), a hard power down with a power plug removal at the set generally also helps restore proper channel mapping if lost...or if a new card install does not map properly.

I made the mistake of letting them take a generally working card away to fix a small issue. Cost me months of aggravation to get back to normal service as their test set went down and no cards would install properly from the user end. :mad: Hold on to the working card for dear life and try the techniques employed above and anything else you can think of before letting that happen.

90SPGred

02-10-06, 12:42 AM

Hi! I've been checking the Z42 thread occasionally to see what the latest news is. Surprised to see no new posts for a while. I agree that that's a "positive". I got mine in November.

I do watch a lot of SD (about 50%), but have not seen any greenish, reddish, or bluish yet. I bought AVIA & Digital Essentials at Christmas time, but haven't opened either of them yet - I haven't found ANYTHING to try to fix! And I'm pretty critical.

I'm extremely pleased with the Z42!

Thanks for the updates.

-Vern-

erebus1

02-12-06, 08:06 PM

i also love my zenith! had it for about a week now, put 30 or so hours on it, one question tho, when i get to the end of my cable channels (CATV), and instead of starting over from channel one it switches to (CADTV) which i dont have hooked up so i have to go back to CATV and manually enter channel 1.... is there any way to fix this? im sure its a setting i cant find or something.

ClarkeBar

02-12-06, 11:56 PM

Glad to hear you like your set. Mine is up over 3200 hours now...and with the Olympics that is sure to climb more quickly. Knock on wood...everything is going strong.

They always cycle from one tuner band to the next. The only likely way to get the quick jump back to CATV is to hit the top left TV Input button. Mine toggles from DTV (which I don't use) to CATV or CADTV (depending on last channel used) because I have Digital Plus service. Have not yet found a way to eliminate the DTV cycle...perhaps there is none. Have tried to edit out the DTV through the channel edit menu but no go. Also dislike the repetitive TV/Video cycle...I wish there was a more direct way to get to the inputs. But at least we have tons of them to cycle through unlike some sets out there.

90SPGred

02-13-06, 12:39 AM

erebus1, Perhaps I don't understand the question, but:

On my Z42 I have entered "Setup"; "Channel Edit"; and used "Add/Delete" to deselect all the channels from ALL of the tabs, except the ones I want my set to scan. When a channel is deselected it is gray, not bold black.

After doing that, my set only scans the channels I want, and it does so regardless of whether DTV or CADTV is selected. In other words, in either DTV or CADTV my Z42 scans the channels I have kept - no others.

You might try this, and make sure that all channels in the CADTV Channel Edit Tab are "deselected", to see what happens.

Yes, I wish I could delete the "Inputs" I'm not using, but haven't found any way to do that.

I'm extremely pleased with the Z42!

heidi

02-13-06, 04:01 AM

I haven't visited the forum in a while -- been too busy watching my Z -- but I have to concur that, after 6 months, I still love the set! The PQ remains outstanding, and when I tell people how much (or how little) I spent for a plasma, they are uniformly jealous.

The only thing I still have a little concern about is burn-in. I am surprised at how easily images seem to be retained on the Z. If I linger too long on the Comcast guuide I invariably see the logo and outline of the background retained on the set. Likewise DVD menu screens, or even a lot of 4:3 programming. This is only visible when the set is powering on or off, but is readily apparent. So far a white wash of 30 seconds to a minute has always taken care of the problem, but is this normal? I always have the orbiter set to on. So shouldn't that prevent this sort of image retention?

erebus1

02-13-06, 06:59 AM

The only thing I still have a little concern about is burn-in. I am surprised at how easily images seem to be retained on the Z. If I linger too long on the Comcast guuide I invariably see the logo and outline of the background retained on the set. Likewise DVD menu screens, or even a lot of 4:3 programming. This is only visible when the set is powering on or off, but is readily apparent. So far a white wash of 30 seconds to a minute has always taken care of the problem, but is this normal? I always have the orbiter set to on. So shouldn't that prevent this sort of image retention?

what do u have your brightness and contrast set to?
i think my contrast is 55 and brightness is 60 and i have seen no burn in whatsoever.

ClarkeBar

02-13-06, 11:23 AM

Hi Heidi,

Yes, you need to keep your Contrast and Brightness levels down. Sometimes I flip through the presets with different material just to see what it looks like. Of course most of them are extremely dynamic but hopelessly overdriven. It's a shame the Night Time one throws a color shift and is very soft as it actually seems to yield very little image retention compared to the others.

Not saying your levels are too high as I know you know better. The normal temporary retention you see even using the orbiter function is perfectly normal and nothing to be concerned about. I used to run the Whitewash much more than I do now and have no burn-in of any kind even after earlier episodes of falling asleep without setting the timer and having DVD Menus like Sin City (of all DVDS!) onscreen for many hours.

erebus1

02-13-06, 07:09 PM

-- UPDATE --
welp i couldnt wait, i went ahead and connected it and its working great, im installing knoppmyth as i type this so well see how that goes.. hopefully ill be watching hdtv shows and movies on my htpc in a few.
---------------

since this is the official zenith thread i can ask this without getting yelled at i hope.

the RGB connector on the back that looks like a computer monitor connection, can i just go ahead and hook a computer to it? or is that a different connector, id hate to damage the tv so early in the game.

this is basically the cable i have, a svga male to male
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&cs_id=1020105&p_id=87&seq=1&format=2&style=

ClarkeBar

02-15-06, 01:01 PM

Yes, just switch to the RGB input and you're good to go. Follow the resolution settings recommended in the manual.

More advice to Cablecard users experiencing difficulty with random/sporadic channel loss:

Pop out the card. Unplug the power plug from the back of the set. Re-plug to power up and then re-insert the card. Wait a minute or two and then try out the lost channel(s).

When the channels go, I always get sound but no video and they always are obtainable from the DVR which is fed by the same line. So the problem is either the Moto cards, changes at the head end or problems with the set. I heavily discount the last but allow for the possibility of a flukey connector.

I have reported my troubles with Comcast many times on these threads and have taken to finding any solution which eliminates the provider. Last weeks experience was a simple loss of 2 channels, both HD. I requested a hit and channels were restored after 5 minutes. But I noticed that they did not appear until after I tried the hard power down. So today when I lost 2 more HDs, along with the entire suite of Encore movie channels, I decided to cure it myself.

Can't swear the procedure above will work for everyone but it does for me.

Sparco

02-20-06, 10:38 PM

I saw this set at CompUSA and was very impressed. I can usually spot an EDTV easily but this one fooled me for a bit. The picture looked really nice. I wish it didn't have the speakers on the side and I'm not a fan of silver casings. I wish this one had a black case (or bezel, whatever ya call it)..

I am thinking of buying it but there's always that feeling that EDTV is yesterday's news.

ClarkeBar

02-21-06, 12:28 AM

Believe me, I know what you mean.

When I bought the Z I was also looking at 42" HD but the price differential at that time was a good bit more than it is now with most of the sets under consideration. But after the recent reductions, if it isn't pricing that is slewing the scale it's now supply.

Like many of the Z42 owners, I purchased knowing full well I would go HD in a few years. My seating distances were perfect for EDTV (nothing closer than 8 feet or so) and this set had a PC input which would only enhance it's useful life down the road. Black levels and color gradations may be less than Panny or NEC but this set has a great combination of performance and features for the money.

It's funny but something I always stress to people is the superior sound quality as well. You may not like the extra width but those speakers are excellent sounding and fit well into situations where folks aren't running a full HT. My wife loves the fact she can just run the set for daily viewing without the HT configured in and be very happy with the result. But at 47.6" it is almost as wide as some 50"s with bottom speakers.

The silver casing takes some getting used to but it makes sense when you realize it is a fully equipped EDTV meant more by design to replace the old CRT. The inner black border on the screen does help to make the picture pop from the casing.

Sparco

02-21-06, 12:33 PM

Thanks for your response, ClarkeBar.

I will be about 7 to 8 feet away so maybe I'm pushing it.

The PC input sounds great but I would be afraid of burn-in.

I agree that it's nice to not have to always use your HT system but I wish the speakers were in the back.

I will look at the Zenith again but I'm still not sure what route I am going to go..

ClarkeBar

02-21-06, 02:29 PM

Good Luck with whatever choice you make. :)

As to ED vs HD, aside from economics, it all depends on your eyes sensitivity to SDE. I can get to 4 feet on my set and not be bothered by it at all. Still others complain at 8 feet or more. Take a tape measure with you when evaluating.

Other things to consider:

Think about what you are going to feed it. DVDs look great on 480P panels with a decent player and 1080i just jumps off the screen with HD programming. At 7-8 feet and beyond you will likely never notice any difference unless SDE is still an issue with your vision.

A personal note:

I got my set last year in time for NFL pre-season and the Fall Sports schedule. Best purchase I ever made. This year the Super Bowl and now The Winter Olympics have been a total blast. :D Watching Concerts and Science/Travel shows on the INHDs and Discovery HD is just look like looking through a window. First time I saw The Tonight Show using regular cable through the QAM tuner I nearly fell out of my chair. Got the CableCard a week after delivery and the HD DVR a week after that. Have never looked back or had any regrets. ED has its limits but I really haven't bumped up to them yet. YMMV. :)

Sparco

02-22-06, 02:59 PM

You certainly make a good argument, ClarkeBar.. I hope to check out the set again this weekend. Thanks.

LBOCEAN

03-01-06, 06:16 PM

Well;

It's been some time since I last posted. Have had my Z now since Nov 1 05' and have been Loving It!

As does everyone else posts, boasting quality, friends envy, etc. All's I have to say is Dido!

I need to do some serious back reading on all the posts here to get me back up to speed, but at least wanted to get back online to check-in with everyone.

With the move into the house, it's been real hectic getting things unboxed, etc.

I did get a chance to make it out to this years CES Show and, of course, found my way over to the LG booth.

I did in deed speak with Mr. Zenith (as he likes to call himself), and got caught up on the Z42 low-down...

Next years model ED-Z will be coming out soon (could'nt / would'nt) tell me when, but did say that the major differences would be a faster processor and the display will be changed out using the new "Clear View Display".

He introduced me to the set, Nice. A few minor costmetic changes, but for the most part, you really don't see that much of a difference.

After roaming around the booth, another rep. guided me to where the current Z was setup, (in a room behind were the reps sit and chat with one another), I was then able to scurry back n' forth a few times to get a better comparison between the two different units... Still, not a lot of difference. In fact, I alsmost thought the current Z had alittle better picture.

I have photo's and when I get a few minutes in the next week, I'll update this post with links to them.

Recently I was up in Encino, Ca (I live in Long Beach, Ca) and happened by a Ken Cranes. They had a larger selection of LG displays, more so than the one I purchased mine from down near me.

Esentially, they had 2 other LG 42" HD's there, and one was directly across from the LG ED. With a simple twist of the head, I was able to compare the two. The true HD unit displays smoothed over images, where-as the ED model gives a brighter, more pronounced image. Both looked good. However, if your willing to plunk down an additional $1300, you could end up with the 42" HD model, complete with PIP (one of the things I really wish I had), image card readers on the right side, and the unit comes in the black bezel finish. Speakers are out on the side as they are on the ED model.

For $1800, I still think I got the best deal of all. Especially when I compare it to my friends Samsung 42" he just purchased.

Winter Olympics had us locked into Channel 4 in HD. Man O' Man. :)

One last note in distance, they say you should site approx. 2 x (width of display) at minimum.

Havn't had to change a single service setting, everthing has been great.

Next addition... In search of a PIP box. Found a few professional models, kinda expensive, but have some other project plans in mind for the PIP box just besides Dual-Tuner feed. Going to patch in my video survellience I installed around the house, and would like to view things as desired.

PC Hookup. I've been using mine, no burn in experienced as of yet.

Be back soon!

LB

Sparco

03-13-06, 11:24 AM

I had a chance to get a new one for under 1k but I hesitated and lost out.

http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5879592348&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

LBOCEAN

03-13-06, 12:02 PM

Well, you can still get one. And based on everyone's input here, you can trust you'll get your monies worth too.

It's a good unit. Zenith (LG if you will) is still going to carry the model through next year as well. Ask yourself why would they do that? Because HD is still not incorporated in a large percentage of the stations across the US. And won't be for at least 3-5 years, because its way to expensive for the little guys.

It will take at least that long before something is done, either in way of a tax incentive or financial assitance for HD to be sent out in more mass.

Not to say that buying a HD over and ED is not a good idea. But, when you look at how some of these HD look when your watching regular (non-HD) signals, arg!

A friend of mine just bought a Samsung 42, HD Plasma last month. Being we play electronics together, I got to help install everything. It was the very unit I was toying of getting. Sam's club had it for a good price at the time I was looking, but after seeing the Z42, I walked away without a tear from the Samsung. (perhaps alittle reservation. But no tears)

Now I have a big smile because I'm able to see the very unit in question with standard TV signal. Again... Arg!

What's that you say. It's only $300, maybe $400 more. Save that money for a plasma mount and some DVD movies.

Knuck'le down, locate who carries the unit in your area, get the best price, and report back here when you sitt'n in front of it with a BIG smile. (like the rest of us)

:D

Sparco

03-14-06, 01:59 PM

Thanks for your response, LBOCEAN.

My only reservation now is the Philips 42PF7320A (HDTV) is only a hundred bucks more.. Maybe I'll wait for the price to drop on the Zenith.

ClarkeBar

03-15-06, 12:50 AM

Sparco,

Read the 7320A thread here on AVS, especially the last few pages. I believe there are problems cropping up.

ATRumbler

03-28-06, 03:41 PM

I am still very much digging my Zenith. Thanks for all of the help from everyone posting on this thread!

I've decided to go ahead and wall mount my unit, and have been a bit frustrated by the number of options available, the extortionate price of so many of these options, and the fact that I can't seem to get assurances that any particular wall mount will fit this Zenith model.

Bon3, I see where you mounted yours with a Sanus low profile mount. Would you happen to have a model number? And if anyone else happens to know of a good, inexpensive flat mount I would greatly appreciate the help!

B0N3

03-28-06, 04:51 PM

Sanus Systems VMPL250S Universal 30"-50" Flat-Panel Mount (Silver)

I got it at buy.com for under $65 (shipped) a while back. Looks like that deal isn't there anymore (and they charge for shipping now) but I'm sure you can get it for short $$. Be sure to check flamingoworld.com for the $5 off of $50 coupon in the Electronics dept.

The mount is GREAT. Nice and flat against the wall .. sturdy as hell .. Took me 1/2 hour to hang it with a friend working with me. Just make sure you find wall studs to anchor it. That's the toughest part.

I personally would NOT spend lots of money on a mount, Just get the Sanus. Forget tilting and all the extras other mounts advertise. VMPL250S serves it's purpose, it's a solid well built mount and is an outstanding value. You will LOVE it.

ATRumbler

04-23-06, 10:23 PM

Bon - Bought and mounted. Thanks!

erebus1

06-01-06, 09:11 PM

thought Id revive this thread a bit...

Im still loving my zenith, but got a question about the audio settings.
I cant seem to find a setting that works really well for watching regular cable tv... either the background music is too loud and speaking is to soft or the other way around...

Im curious what a few of the settings mean. If someone could explain what they do or maybe even post theyre audio settings I would be much obliged.

What is
EZ SoundRite
Front Surround - 3Dechosound, SRS Trusurround (to me they just seem to make the set louder)
BBE

LBOCEAN

06-01-06, 10:03 PM

I'm still Loving Mine as well. :D

Not trying to cut short here.... But the first thing you should do is grab/open your manual that came with the panel. It does a pretty good job of explaining those questions you have there. Once you've done that, if you need futher, I'd be happy to type back n forth abit more for ya.

A note about the trouble your having with sound. I'm out here in Ca. (Service is with Charter Communications) and have the same problem. It's not the panel, its your carrier.

Each modulated channel has a different setting back at the main office (much to them lying its not). You can have the volume way up on some programming, only to race for the remote/mute button when the commercials start. :mad:

LBOCEAN

06-02-06, 10:02 AM

Hey BON3

Just received an email you had posted, but don't see anything on the board?

So here's a copy of what was sent to me...

Hiya .. nice to bring this thread back once and a while.

I never used the built in audio until the other day when I was "refoaming" my HT speakers.

Although most of the effects are pretty cool .. I found that the more basic the settings, the more control I had over general volume and sound quality:

EZ SoundRite - Off
EZ Sound - Custom
Balance - 0
Treble - 53
Bass - 86
Front Surround - Off
BBE - Off

I was really impressed with the built in speakers .. another plus for this wonderful set!

I too was impressed with the sound. We moved into a house back in Nov 05', same time I got the plasma (kinda one of those, its time things).

I havn't had time to wire the house for the sterio speakers, so we've just been using the plasma for the time being.

You can turn them way up, and still sound Great :)

B0N3

06-02-06, 04:11 PM

LBOCEAN .. I was going to edit a few things .. deleted instead and meant to repost .. but got a phone call and forgot .. hehe

... in rare cases when I need to use the TV speakers, I have been very impressed. The side speakers will be great when I move the Z into my bedroom. That won't be for a while though. :)

erebus1

06-02-06, 04:48 PM

Thanks for those settings fellas, I appreciate it. I will go back into the manual and see what it says about those settings, and Ill try BON's settings out real quick too.

Thanks

moogoo122

07-13-06, 02:39 AM

hi i just picked one up brand new at compusa on clearance for a G today, but got a speeding ticket driving home : ( Just a quick question before i open it, since its July now and HD plasmas have dropped a lot should i keep this or opt for a HD plasma and btw my main concern is how does XBOX 360 games in 720p look on it... would it be downscaled? THX GUYS

eclaixp

07-14-06, 11:42 PM

Sorry for intruding on this forum. I am about to purchase this Plasma TV from CompUSA (Zenith Z42PX2D) just as the poster above did. I'll be picking it up tomorrow. I read a couple threads here but couldn't really get a definite answer as to whether this is a plasma TV worth getting, specially for a grand. I am not an expert on this subject as I see many of you here are using many terms I don't udnerstand. I would mostly be using it to watch SD? Please any advice, comments, etc will be greatly appreciate before I drive 25 miles to pick this baby up. I understood from this thread that I'd best using component which I don't even know what that is... :)

LBOCEAN

07-18-06, 02:20 PM

Hi Guys...

To awnser both your questions...

moogoo122

This paticular ED plasma without a doubt, is the tops in its category.

However, since the unit has dropped in price a bit, and if your budget allows for it, you could consider getting the next model up in the Zenith line of HD plasma's.

:( Sorry to hear about your speeding ticket.

eclaixp

ED stands for Enhanced Definition... Which is equivalint to 480 lines as apposed to SD which is around 400. ED also is a Progressive signal, which has a different scan pattern than SD (Standard Definition) and produces a cleaner picture.

Again, if your budget calls for it, you could go up a notch to the HD version of this model Zenith (It's a black unit as apposed to silver), and has some additional features such as a memory card reader up front, a few additional connections in the back, and Picture n' Picture as well.

At the time I purchased mine (Nov 05), I paid around $1900. Being that over 80% of the movies we have in the house are ED, and, there are still only a handfull of HD channels out there (true HD that is), it didn't make any sence at the time to spend another $1200+ for something I'm not likely to enjoy any better other than features. (Picture n' Picture being the most important on the list)

For certain, HD does provide a cleaner image, but when I compaired both units in the same room, you'd be hard pressed to decide to spend that additional cash when your on a budget. Both had great picture. But the Zenith ED came through better when wathcing standard brodcasts (non HD).

Since most broadcast signals are within the ED spec, it made perfect sence why it produced a better picture than an HD attempting to convert the signal internally.

I could go on, but that should be just enough to get you both on your way for now.

Sorry for the late reply. I myself was on vacation :)

moogoo122

07-18-06, 07:28 PM

well ive decided to keep mines, since i only paid a grand for it and hd is looking quite nice on the unit, plus ive been reading after about 8-10 ft you cant really see much of a difference btwn hd n ed, i like how it accepts 720p n 1080i just like my infocus 4805 and downsamples it, still quite a nice picture compared to regular 480p and a big difference when i use my zenith 318 to upconvert dvds to 720p, much better colors and clearer picture.

erebus1

08-07-06, 09:20 PM

B0N3

08-08-06, 12:18 AM

I just got my Oppo 971H in the mail today, but so far im kinda dismayed... Im watching LOTR - Fellowship of the ring and theres some pretty bad macroblocking going on with the zenith.

I can see some green bleeding into the black bars area around the movie, its pretty distracting.

Also anything that is dark just looks horrible.

Anyone know of anything I can do to make it better? If not Im probably gonna return it.

Currenlty Im using DVI/HDMI cable, contrast at 55, brightness at 55, sharpness at 45, color is 50, tint is 0, color temp is medium.

All the settings for the oppo are basically turned off, and its in 720p.

Thanks.

That's a bummer man .. The Oppo 971 is notorious for macroblocking because of the faroudja chip. It doesn't get along well with the Z42. Definitely return it.

Have you considered checking out the OPPO DV-970HD?
Here's a link for 971 vs. 970.. the main one being that the 970 is non-faroudja.

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd_faq.html#A0

Also check out the beginning of this thread .. we've all tried different DVD players and have posted test results. I have the LG-511/HDMI .. it's OK (I don't watch lots of DVDs) .. I mainly use my modded XBOX via component for movies.
Good luck!

ClarkeBar

09-18-06, 01:25 PM

I originally posted this as a separate thread a while back but I'm sure it wasn't seen but by a handful of people before it reached page 25 :p , so I'm posting it here for reference with certain applicable edits.

The Z42 like many panels has a tendency to change brightness level with certain scenes. This problem has it's roots in an incorrect setting of Contrast/Brightness ratio which can be intentionally seen and replicated using the AVIA Windows section under Grey scale adjustment.

If the panel is out of proper adjustment the entire panel will flare in Brightness level when moving up or down the avg. Brightness % windows.

It appears one simple and helpful key is to find the proper value for the 10% window on the AVIA disc using Contrast and Brightness. Because there is no set reference for Contrast on these panels there is much confusion where to set it. Unlike with CRT, Contrast generally does not need to be lower than Brightness on plasma panels to avoid blooming. Generally blooming is never seen with this technology. Obviously using any factory picture presets with abnormally high values will routinely showcase the problem. Key to proper adjustment is to have a grey window at the opening 10% level. Any obvious RGB color tint can lead to problems.

I will say this...using the factory settings for Medium Color Temp (in the Service menu) on my plasma, if the Contrast (range 0-100) is above 43 the panel will consistently shift in Brightness at the 40% window...if the level is 43 or below you can get to the 50% window before the shift. This last part convinced me that there were settings in-set which could lead to a fix and helped to narrow down the range. Of course the objective is to go through the 10-100% window progression from either direction and not see the abrupt full panel background shift in brightness at all. Instead you want to see the screen increase in terms of avg. light level basically in the window itself with the black background staying fairly uniform avoiding any abrupt up or down shift in level. After some experimenting I have finally found a working combination (again, using the factory values for Medium Color Temp...anything other than this will yield different settings) .

On my Z42 the proper values are 37 for Contrast and 37 for Brightness. These apply to component input and were achieved using 1080i in-player upconversion (Zenith DVB318). A peculiar oddity showed up when viewing the discs using 1080i in-player upconversion as opposed to 480P or 720P. The Brightness value needed to be lowered a few notches to 34 with resolutions below 1080i in order to avoid the panel shift, even though using the same Contrast setting. Because the various inputs differ there may be some adjustment necessary to find the right combo with each one. I have applied the settings above universally and have yet to see any dreaded shift on the other inputs but time will tell.

I encountered a slight difference in setting values using DVE as opposed to AVIA. The AVIA windows in the Greyscale sub-menu were easier to use and faster to check for effect. The AVIA Steps and Ramps in the same area were also quite useful in setting a proper Color temp adjustment for the Medium preset...which from the factory was almost identical to the Cool preset. Naturally I have subsequently adjusted the Medium Color Temp values (I can supply them to those interested) to more closely track proper greyscale as none of the original factory settings even come close to this. Warm (as factory calibrated) is virtually useless for anything.

Hope any of this can be of help to anyone seeing this issue, especially Zenith/LG owners.

moogoo122

09-18-06, 05:04 PM

super detailed post, so in conclusion you have to turn down the brightness contrast to avoid that? ive noticed the brightness jump up n down many times now and thought it was a defect but didnt really annoy me that much on my xbox 360 watching movies.

EProie

09-20-06, 10:53 AM

Did you chane the contrast and brightness settings in the Service menu or under under custom settings in the regular video mode?

ClarkeBar

09-20-06, 11:47 AM

Welcome to the Forum.

To fix the issue I attacked several parts to the problem including changing the Color Temp Medium to my own settings. But even using the factory settings I believe anyone can successfully rid themselves of the issue. Keep it as simple or as complex as you like. I did the following:

I experimented with the Sub Contrast and Brightness settings in the Service Menu to see the effect on the grey ramps and windows in AVIA. I found the ramps are the most useful (without test equipment) to evaluate the Greyscale in terms of uniformity and colorization. Because these panels are limited to 1024 shades of gradation (I may be wrong...it might be 2048 like the PD50U but I doubt it) they are more subject to banding. When the color of grey is off you will see rainbow banding of the RGB in the grey ramps. Depending on how severe it is, you may need to involve the Sub Contrast/Sub Brightness in the Service menu to smooth it out. I used a lower setting to help adjust the Color of Grey but returned to the factory setting afterwards. See below.

The next step would be to choose a working Color Temp using one of the three provided. I chose Medium as the factory Color tinting on Cool and Warm are generally so obvious they make a good contrast for testing Medium results.

Using Medium Color Temp I adjusted the color of Grey to minimize the RGB banding. This can take a good deal of back and forth in the Service menu if you do not have the proper equipment. I can PM my particular values to anyone interested.

Once a smoother, more uniform and less colorized Grey is found in the ramps, it is easier to then properly adjust the Contrast/Brightness in the User Menu. Previously, if there were any misadjustment in the Service menu greyscale, the AVIA grey bars at low levels would not appear grey but rather be color tinted. Once done, the % windows section will then reveal whether the panel Brightness will stay consistent.

If misadjusted the background black will shift up in level quite noticeably at a particular (to your set and settings) % window. If this occurs you need to go back to the beginning and adjust the Brightness down. As a starting point, remember to keep Contrast around 40 or so. This will make it easier to fine tune as the two controls interact.

Try my numbers in the earlier post before doing anything in the Service menu. If the sets left the factory with the same Service menu settings they might work for you.

EProie

09-21-06, 07:27 AM

Could you please PM those values you used in the service menu and some instructions on how you did it. P.S. I know how to get access to the service menu.

Thanks,
Eric

LBOCEAN

10-08-06, 06:14 AM

Chiming in here... Well, I've had mine for 11 months now, and just this past evening, my wife leaves me a sticky note on the plasma for me to read when I got home...

Quote... Honey, the TV went POP, and there's no picture. Hope we still are in our warranty period? (Tears running down my face about this time :(

So you turn the TV on, and you get a pitch black screen with very faint, jumbled up horizontal lines here and there, and only in a few places. I was actually hoping its was going to the the HD Conveter box.... But no such luck.

Yes... we still are in the warranty period, so I'll be contacting Zenith this week.

Hey, Maybe if I'm lucky, they'll replace the bad one with the newer version that has the faster processor in it?

I'll keep you all posted.

gangland71

11-09-06, 06:40 PM

I was wondering first of all, is this remote compatible with audio components? such as my stereo?
I got my zenith at Rentacrooks, and didn't get a manual with it, so i have no way of knowing if i can program the remote to work with my stereo.
Can anyone by chance tell me where i might be able to download it possibly?
thanks for your help

B0N3

11-09-06, 10:13 PM

http://www.xnay.com/528Den-0506.pdf

gangland71

11-10-06, 04:03 PM

Thanx a million!!! Got her figured out now!!!

ZenithPete

11-24-06, 02:28 PM

Sorry for bumping this, but maybe someone can help

I need to see about shipping my Zenith Z42PX2D plasma several hundred miles. Problem is I no longer have the original shipping box. I tried zenith parts department- dont have any and they are clueless otherwise about where to get one. Also tried a few local service centers, not much help.

Does anyone know where I might get a suitable box or should I contact freight companies to see about custom packaging that they would be willing to insure the tv with....I know how important having the right box is.

Thanks for any insight.

erebus1

03-26-07, 08:46 AM

My z42px2d is crapping out, after a out 2 hours of it being on it starts doing this http://sharkfoo.com/files/DSCN0280.MOV

I made a small vid with my digital camera so hopefully you can see it, it starts flashing r, g, b color pixels all over the place, mostly the top of the screen, if i turn it off for a min or two it goes away but is back in a few minutes.... heat issue? The tv just came out of warranty 2 months ago so Im pretty unhappy with it, Im gonna take the rear cover off tonight and reseat all the connections and check for heat problems. If not its going to the shop.

If anyone has any ideas on whats happening I would appreciate the help.
Thx.

BlazenShelby

11-20-07, 12:27 AM

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and all the information here is extremely useful. While I've read this thread, I don't have enough postings to start a new one myself, so I thought I'd ask the question here and hope someone reads it :confused:

Does a Zenith 42" plasma HDTV exist? One is being advertised for a low price and I would think it's an EDTV, but the advertisement specifically says (and this is all)

SALE Zenith 42" plasma HDTV
Integrated digital tuner. Dual HDMI inputs.

It does not list model number or anything. In addition, it is black not silver. I would provide a link to the pic of the black TV, but I can't do that yet either.

Any feedback you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

BnS

DougRuss

11-20-07, 06:49 AM

SALE Zenith 42" plasma HDTV
Integrated digital tuner. Dual HDMI inputs.

It does not list model number or anything. In addition, it is black not silver. I would provide a link to the pic of the black TV, but I can't do that yet either.

Any feedback you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

BnS

This post has some info:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940936

thewrathofme

02-03-08, 03:03 PM

Hi, I'm new to this forum, and i have a pretty wierd question. I put in a number of movies in widescreen format and it shows up on my tv the way it would on a regular tv. it says its in 16:9 format but it really isn't. anybody know what to do? thanks

The4thDoctor

02-04-08, 06:16 PM

Does anyone have this problem? My channels that I save keeps disappearing. This occurs on DTV, CATV, etc. Also, the channels that "disappear" are not always the same ones. It appears that they are randomly "disappearing" and I need to manually add them back.

Is this something new?

ClarkeBar

06-23-09, 11:53 PM

Hi Gang,

Long time no post. I suspect most of you have moved on to something else in terms of your main displays but some might still be using the Z42 for a second or third display.

If this has been raised before I apologize as I haven't tracked the thread in a while and just came across this the other night. While programming my Z42 remote for a new audio piece (Onkyo PR-SC885), I accidentally discovered a new (at least to me) Sevice Menu item. I press Audio, then volume up which gives a Password screen. I press volume down and a new Menu appears on the left side of the screen which is called Expert. To enter it you Press TV Mode. Once activated it now always appears in the Picture Mode listings instead of Sports. There is also an entry counter at the bottom unlike any of the other Menu screens.

It uses the Medium Color setting as a default and shows the current values for all relevant PQ settings in the Expert Mode. They are adjustable just as the other service Menu values are affecting PQ except these can be restored with the choice of a restore default values selection at the bottom.

Kinda cool really. Could come in handy for anyone who has messed around in the service menu and not written down the factory values for color.

I don't know whether a particular code needs to be entered for the Audio button or not. I will experiment a little and find out.

[Edit] Code 141 for Audio among others does the trick for me. Of course I can't use it for Audio control as it makes volume useless for me. So I will have to remember to reprogram the code when I want entry to that menu. I'm sure there is a much easier way to do this without this happenstance arrangement. Maybe I'll find it.

In the meantime, if you don't care about losing the Sports Mode entry in the Video Mode listings, try it out. :)