Official Pioneer 4360/5060/Elite Experiences, Set-up, Questions & Pictures Thread!!! [Text View] - Page 3

eelton

10-11-05, 06:34 PM

Has anyone hooked up one of these panels to a PC? How do they look? I think Eric mentioned he had hooked up a laptop, but I don't remember seeing any details. I know burn-in is sometimes overblown, but are people worried about this at all for occasional PC use?

Also, how does the split screen PIP look with the resulting screens being 8:9? Are the images still 16:9 such that there are big bars on the top and bottom of the screen? Can you split the image into 2 different formats, i.e. fill the 8:9 screen with a PC image on one side and an HD program on the other?The PC input looks very good, although I don't plan to use the plasma very frequently as a computer monitor. My output is 1024x768, and the Pioneer gives you the option of stretching this to fit the width of the screen, or leaving it as is with gray bars at the side. The image is quite crisp either way. (There's also a third setting, which is stretched to fit the width, and slightly zoomed. I'm not sure what that's for.)

If you put up two HD images on split screen (in my case, the CableCard input and the HDTiVo), there are indeed rather large gray bars above and below the two images. If you use one HD and one SD (4:3) input, the SD image is bigger than the HD image. Basically, each is given half the width of the screen, and their height is determined accordingly.

You can use PIP with a PC input on one side and an HD image on the other. The PC image is a bit taller than the HD one (determined the same way as above). As with any inputs, you can also have one full screen, with a small window in the corner for the other. However, if you have the PC input full screen and you're using the 5060 for sound, it gives you the PC's sound (or lack thereof), rather than that of the smaller window. That's not a problem if you're routing the sound through a preamp or receiver, in which case you can select the audio you want.

spoogle

10-11-05, 07:33 PM

I'm not sure what you are comparing the black level to, but if the comparison is to a CRT, then yes they will not be as black. No plasma can create CRT blacks. Do you hear the fan while the plasma is on or in a silent room?

I was comparing the black level to... black. :-) I guess to CRT blacks.

The fan noise can be heard in a silent room, and since I am aware of it, also while watching TV (I don't tend to watch the TV at monster volume). My priorities are to 1) find out if the noise is within expected range and if so 2) find appropriate acoustic dampening (some kind of egg box material) material which I can put around the inside of the cabinet where the media unit is.

Thanks eelton for the info about the two fans. Since I have only had the unit for 1 day I am reluctant to start attacking it with my best power tools. Actually what I would really like to do is sit down in front of it and watch my entire DVD collection...

PugFan

10-11-05, 08:17 PM

Got the call from my Tweeter, my 1130 will be in tomorrow. Very excited to get it fired up and start playing!! :D

Tallcane

10-12-05, 08:52 AM

For anyone that has received their 1130, what color is your media receiver? Also, is your owners manual specifically for the 1130 or did they include the 5060 owners manual?

I think they put the wrong media receiver in the box with my 1130. Mine is silver and does not say "elite" on it, and the owners manual says 5060. Very weird!

I am looking for confirmation that I got the wrong one. Anyone know?

LoonyTunes

10-12-05, 10:23 AM

mdenk

10-12-05, 10:57 AM

Ah, the floodgates are open...5060s and 1130s are everywhere. Congratulations on your new plasma.

The noise you're hearing is indeed fan noise. There are two fans in the media receiver. Surprisingly, the one you can feel on the outside (at the back) is quieter; the second one is toward the front, just to the right of midline. It seems to vibrate more and make more noise. (At first, I didn't think it was fan noise, but I went into the service menu and turned off the fans, after which it was dead quiet. I didn't leave the fans turned off, fearing heat buildup, although it seems to run quite cool.) Still, the noise pretty minor on mine--only audible from close up, and certainly quieter than my TiVo hard drives. If yours is louder, there may be some unit-to-unit variation.

The media center on my 5060 is quite loud as well. Also, should the fans on my media center be running when it is in standby mode?

RKA

10-12-05, 10:58 AM

eelton

10-12-05, 11:10 AM

The media center on my 5060 is quite loud as well. Also, should the fans on my media center be running when it is in standby mode?Yes, they run in standby, although that seems completely unnecessary. The unit is ice cold when in standby (and only slightly warm when on--adventurous people could consider turning off the fans in the service menu.)

pstrisik

10-12-05, 11:33 AM

Yes, they run in standby, although that seems completely unnecessary. The unit is ice cold when in standby (and only slightly warm when on--adventurous people could consider turning off the fans in the service menu.)
Depending on one's setup, at least a couple of arrangements with the MR fans turned off are possible.

If you have the MR in a console like me (see photo in my sig), you could install one of the super quiet fans to ventilate the entire console.

If the MR is exposed, like on an open self or surface, the cover could be removed and replaced with a screen cover that would allow full ventilation but protect the unit from something placed on it or dropped on it.

Is the warranty voided if the MR cover is removed? For that matter, what if the fans are turned off in the service menu? If the MR burned out, could repair tell that the fans had been turned off?

angedc

10-12-05, 11:37 AM

Tallcane, I don't know but I'm getting my 1130 tonight (from Tweeter in Rockville, MD). I'll let you know!

PugFan

10-12-05, 11:39 AM

eelton

10-12-05, 11:42 AM

Okay, I have a few issues with my 5060 I'm trying to figure out. Anybody want to take a crack at these?

1. Lip sync issue when watching SD cable. The picture lags slightly behind the sound. I have cable running from the wall to the MR. Coax for digital audio runs from the MR to the surround proc. Umbilical cord carries video from MR to the plasma. Running the cable straight to the adjacent tube TV produces no lip sync issues. Running the tube and plasma+HT system in parallel show the sound is in step in both cases, but the picture on the plasma lags behind compared to the tube TV. So somewhere in the MR or the plasma there is a delay in the video signal. What's going on here? Interestingly, if I tune to the same local station broadcast in HD, there is no lip sync issue. The HD broadcast trails the SD broadcast by about 7 seconds, which I'm sure is a delay introduced by the cable company. The important thing is no lip sync issue here. With DVD's, again, no lip sync issues.

(the following is not necessarily specific to the 5060, but I'll ask anyway)
2. Watching HD cable channels (local broadcasts provided by the comcast, no cable box), I noticed a good bit of "digital snow" on some of the channels. This is different from the encrypted channels (or what I assume to be encrypted, because they are unwatchable). This digital snow is more annoying than anything, as the channels are still watchable...unless the picture drops out, which does happen from time to time (3-4 times last night during Leno). Is this snow an indication that the built in tuner is poor in quality, or is this the norm for local HD broadcasts over cable? If it's a signal quality issue, are local HD channels any better if I upgrade to digital service through my provider, or can I expect the same garbage?Regarding the first issue, any TV or other device that deinterlaces an SD image will cause some delay, based on the need to "accumulate" two or more frames (or half frames) before processing the image. This is more noticeable with some deinterlacers than others. If it's noticeable for you, check to see if your surround processor has an audio delay setting. My Lexicon does, but some brands don't.

As for the second, I've noticed this type of noise with my CableCard input, but much less with HDTiVo. Since the CableCard image is sharper overall, I think some of the noise is eliminated with the TiVo, along with picture information, owing to a lower-quality tuner and the component connection. (When I got the TiVo, I did A/B comparisons with the Zenith HDTV tuner I had been using, and the TiVo produced a noticeably softer picture.) With the CableCard input, I've been using the DNR mid setting, which greatly reduces this noise, although I don't think it's noticeable from a normal viewing distance. However, from your description, you may have more noise, which could be the fault of your cable company.

eelton

10-12-05, 11:46 AM

Signal strength was what the tech told me when he came to repair those same problems with my setup.I don't buy the signal strength argument--since it's digital, reception is pretty much an all-or-none. A weak signal certainly doesn't introduce picture noise, other than freezing and pixelation when on the cusp of losing the signal.

osx-addict

10-12-05, 11:50 AM

Regarding the first issue, any TV or other device that deinterlaces an SD image will cause some delay, based on the need to "accumulate" two or more frames (or half frames) before processing the image. This is more noticeable with some deinterlacers than others. If it's noticeable for you, check to see if your surround processor has an audio delay setting. My Lexicon does, but some brands don't.

I see this issue with my CRT based Toshiba hooked to a Series 1/2 DirecTivo DVR (have a SAT-T60 Sony as well as a Hughes Series 2 which was decommisioned last week in favor of a HR10-250) on occasion. Definately seems to be some sort of satellite related lag from what I've seen. I've also seen this on my Pioneer 5040HD as well. It's not an all-the-time feature, but just occasionally. I frequently see it with news casts (e.g. Today show). Not sure what can be done about that as it seems like an issue upstream from the set (either the decoder or further upstream) IMNSHO.

RKA

10-12-05, 12:17 PM

Eric,
It seems like I could just feed a 480i out of the DVD player to test your theory. If there is still an issue, you're probably right. In that case I wish Pioneer had designed some way for the user to get them back in sync. But if the 480i from the DVD player doesn't have an issue, I guess that points to the cable service then. Should I be using HDMI for this 480i test, or component (or does it not matter)?

I'll look through the manual on my Theta, but I don't think this was a common issue back when I bought the Theta, so I doubt there will be any such delay feature in the processor.

Regarding the second issue...it's certainly more than a few specks on the screen. The noise are blocks about 1" square, but usually many chained blocks, up to 10" long that appear and disappear from time to time. There is video information on those blocks, but it obviously doesn't match the existing image on the screen. It seems like a problem with the tuner or signal (I'm betting the later). Your experience with the tuners suggests it might be the tuner. In any case, I don't think this is something DNR is designed to fix, but I'll fiddle with it anyway. BTW, I'm not using a cable card or STB. These are just local broadcasts passed through by the cable company with no encryption.

D-Nice

10-12-05, 12:27 PM

Regarding the second issue...it's certainly more than a few specks on the screen. The noise are blocks about 1" square, but usually many chained blocks, up to 10" long that appear and disappear from time to time. There is video information on those blocks, but it obviously doesn't match the existing image on the screen. It seems like a problem with the tuner or signal (I'm betting the later). Your experience with the tuners suggests it might be the tuner. In any case, I don't think this is something DNR is designed to fix, but I'll fiddle with it anyway. BTW, I'm not using a cable card or STB. These are just local broadcasts passed through by the cable company with no encryption.

That definitely sound like a weak signal (digital breakup). I would suggest you call your cable co and have a tech sent out to check your signal strength at the point of entry of your house and at your wall jack.

LamJNS

10-12-05, 12:49 PM

I don't buy the signal strength argument--since it's digital, reception is pretty much an all-or-none. A weak signal certainly doesn't introduce picture noise, other than freezing and pixelation when on the cusp of losing the signal.

OK, you don't have to buy it, it is just is...

Each broadcaster chooses how to compress that "Digital" stream. So let’s say the original signal is 99% free of artifacts, snow, fragments etc. The cable/satellite company then takes that signal and before passing it on to you compresses the bitstream by aprox 5-10% to fit their bandwidth.
Then along the cable lines you loose about 5% of the signal even with boosters at propagation stations (they boost the signal with the acquired noise as well). By the time you get the signal to your cable box you have lost aprox 10-15% of the best possible signal which wasn't perfect to begin with.
Even if your cable company uses Fibre instead of conventional copper lines, you still will pickup interference where the fibre converts to copper near your house/building.
So yes digital cable/sat system can still suffer from signal degradation. BTW the cable box also introduces another 1-2% signal degradation, that is why pure signal with a cable card will always be slightly better then a cable box.
I prefer the features of my DVR cable box, so it will stay, but some other people may not care for PPV/DVR or other features.

MaliciousBraham

10-12-05, 01:13 PM

The one problem I do have is that there is a hum. Perhaps a 60 cycle type hum thats coming from the 1130 speakers. It seems more pronounced with the DVD signal (HDMI) than from the cable box signal (HDMI). I plan on switching wires and supplying power from different circuits to isolate the hum if I can.

Just an FYI... I too had a humm from the speakers (normal attached ones that come with the plasma), and was able to get rid of it by ensuring the speaker wires did not loop around each other or the video/power cables. Those speaker wires provided are barely insulated (and barely adequate, imo). Power conditioning can only help though. I did note that the stock power cable provided with the panel has a ferrite bead built in, which is different from most power cables, just in case anyone is taking notes.

other 1130 notes:

There is a slight buzz from the panel, but I can only hear it when within 6 inches of the display surface.

The wall mount fit fine, no issues, but does flex quite a bit. See a few pages back for my links to the peerless mount I used. I added two screws to the top slots of the mount, since it was flexing slightly in the center. I dont believe it was enough to cause any problems, but you have a right to be anal with a display that costs this much.

HD picture is outstanding! I've found myself using the PURE video mode quite a bit, as its the closest setting (or technically non-setting) out-of-the-box to the colors I like. I just turned down the brightness (about -10 from default) and contrast (40 is default I believe, mine is around 25). I will get into specifics some other time when I am sitting at the display and can go through the menus and write it all down.

I watched quite a bit of PBS HD last night (1080i broadcast), via both Tuner and Cablebox, and came to the conclusion I personally prefer my cable box set to output 1080i vs 720p. But I cant give any other reason other than I just prefer the picture better. I believe its a scaler preference with the cablebox. If I set the cablebox to 1080i, I got very very close to the same picture as watching the direct 1080i stream on the tuner. My cablebox is a Moto 6412 HD DVR, so the stream was being copied to HDD, and I believe the subtle differences in quality were due to the recording process in the DVR. But with cablebox set to 720p, the picture just seemed softer, I believe because the cable box downconverts the 1080i to 720p, then the display has to do some scaling to match the native res. I didnt see any issue with display quality in 720p, but the image just looked soft to me, and I dont prefer soft. I also watched a bit of the Baseball game on FOXHD last night, and while I have to get my color adjusted to what I like, I didnt see any glaring issues. In fact, like most other people I am amazed at how HD really does look like you're standing at a window looking in on the actual event.

SD picture is better than I expected. The natual resize is a great feature, imo. I can barely notice the distortion created in streching the 4:3 screen to fit 16:9. I can tell right now that I will be adjusting different picture settings to have specific SD and HD settings. I watched the Dallas/Phoenix NHL game on OLN last night. I have to come up with a good color setting for hockey, but running the game in Pure mode, natural wide, I really, really enjoyed it. Moving tickers: There is still a very small amount of pixel poping on the back edge of the scroll, but it is drastically reduced from what I have seen on 5050's and 1120's, and I have no "flashing" at all as has been reported in other threads.

I have Comcast HD service with a Motorola DCT6412 dual tuner HD DVR hooked up through component input 3. The cablebox setup is 1080i for HD, force 480i for all else. The 1130's internal scalers seem to do a better job than the DVR's, no surprise there. I have the normal wall cable hooked to both ant a and ant b at the moment, just playing around with things. I am contemplating going Cablecard, but have to do some research as to how to get over-the-air channels to the tv ( I am under the impression using cablecard occupies ant a, the digital tuner in the MR, so I would not be able to use it for OTA purposes). There is an issue in my area with Comcast not carrying specific local channels that I still have to work out. I am in a new house, I have never used Comcast before, so I am having some channel issues at the moment, which I believe is due to Comcast. I have to call them later today. I will update back with whatever I find out.

[update!: my channel issues are indeed Comcast. The OTA issue is that a local OTA HD station, just came on air in the last month and has not made it into the Cable lineup yet. Also, when I ran the auto-channel-detect, I was getting the correct non-digital channels, plus a lot of funky channels in the digital range. I found out that those are caused by comcast's ondemand feature, and so basically everytime I ran the channel detect, I got different channels in the digital range depending on what people in the area were watching on "ondemand". Last night I watched someone fast-forwarding through the opening credits of one of the ondemand features :D. It was a sucky movie too. Dont know what those people were thinking... such a waste of bandwidth.]

In fact I will be headed over to the HDTV forum to check my area thread for some more info.

I have not watched a DVD yet, and I dont feel it is appropriate to talk black level in regards to broadcast streams, especially seeing how often the broadcasts arent quite right, and vary widely channel to channel and even show to show. Once I get some good DVD time on the set and learn some more of the intricacies of set-up, I will surely comment some more.

I have some audible noise that is very oddly pitched, and I cant tell if it is a MR fan or one of the HDD's in the DVR. Its not the typical pitch I would expect from either, but those are the best comparisons. I cannot hear it from >4 ft away with the tv off, but I still want to find out what it is. I will update back.

Sorry for the lack of pictures... I spent a good part of last night finishing my wall mount installation and getting the TV installed in it. I actually didnt have time to string the MR cable through the wall, so its kinda ghetto-fied across the mantle until I have time to get it into the wall. After mounting i spent my time watching it ;). Pictures are not far off, I promise. I feel bad not using the stand as it's the most well made piece of kit I've seen in a long, long time. And its not for sale, so dont ask!

Nitpicks:
I wish the media receiver cable was black, but its really an off-white color...
The speaker mounting brackets should be aluminum and not plastic...
The included speaker wire should be better insulated...
Pioneer should include warnings that when neighbors see the box, they will absolutely not leave you alone ;)
A 70lb display seems much heavier when lifting it above your shoulders to get it into a wall mount...

Other q's in this thread that I might be able to give some help on:

No audio lag issues whatsoever for me, but I have only watched OTA stuff and DVR via component with stereo audio input.
MR is most definitely black on the 1130, and says Elite on it ;).
The display comes packaged in a large carton, with three smaller boxes inside, one is the display, one is the stand, one is the MR. The tweeter guys who delivered and unboxed my unit left me the inner boxes if anyone needs info off of them.

CB713

10-12-05, 01:43 PM

I would appreciate anyone sharing the picture settings they are using for the 5060 Pioneer.

Also, I seem to have too much green in the backround colors. Is there a way to change this, or can one only change individual color setting on the Elite?

Thanks.

LamJNS

10-12-05, 02:18 PM

"MaliciousBraham"

Does the stand have a power swivel?

Didn't the speakers come with the TV as well?
You said only 3 boxes... PDP, MR & Stand.

Thanks

D-Nice

10-12-05, 02:42 PM

Just an FYI... I too had a humm from the speakers (normal attached ones that come with the plasma), and was able to get rid of it by ensuring the speaker wires did not loop around each other or the video/power cables. Those speaker wires provided are barely insulated (and barely adequate, imo). Power conditioning can only help though. I did note that the stock power cable provided with the panel has a ferrite bead built in, which is different from most power cables, just in case anyone is taking notes.

other 1130 notes:

There is a slight buzz from the panel, but I can only hear it when within 6 inches of the display surface.

The wall mount fit fine, no issues, but does flex quite a bit. See a few pages back for my links to the peerless mount I used. I added two screws to the top slots of the mount, since it was flexing slightly in the center. I dont believe it was enough to cause any problems, but you have a right to be anal with a display that costs this much.

HD picture is outstanding! I've found myself using the PURE video mode quite a bit, as its the closest setting (or technically non-setting) out-of-the-box to the colors I like. I just turned down the brightness (about -10 from default) and contrast (40 is default I believe, mine is around 25). I will get into specifics some other time when I am sitting at the display and can go through the menus and write it all down.

I watched quite a bit of PBS HD last night (1080i broadcast), via both Tuner and Cablebox, and came to the conclusion I personally prefer my cable box set to output 1080i vs 720p. But I cant give any other reason other than I just prefer the picture better. I believe its a scaler preference with the cablebox. If I set the cablebox to 1080i, I got very very close to the same picture as watching the direct 1080i stream on the tuner. My cablebox is a Moto 6412 HD DVR, so the stream was being copied to HDD, and I believe the subtle differences in quality were due to the recording process in the DVR. But with cablebox set to 720p, the picture just seemed softer, I believe because the cable box downconverts the 1080i to 720p, then the display has to do some scaling to match the native res. I didnt see any issue with display quality in 720p, but the image just looked soft to me, and I dont prefer soft. I also watched a bit of the Baseball game on FOXHD last night, and while I have to get my color adjusted to what I like, I didnt see any glaring issues. In fact, like most other people I am amazed at how HD really does look like you're standing at a window looking in on the actual event.

SD picture is better than I expected. The natual resize is a great feature, imo. I can barely notice the distortion created in streching the 4:3 screen to fit 16:9. I can tell right now that I will be adjusting different picture settings to have specific SD and HD settings. I watched the Dallas/Phoenix NHL game on OLN last night. I have to come up with a good color setting for hockey, but running the game in Pure mode, natural wide, I really, really enjoyed it. Moving tickers: There is still a very small amount of pixel poping on the back edge of the scroll, but it is drastically reduced from what I have seen on 5050's and 1120's, and I have no "flashing" at all as has been reported in other threads.

I have Comcast HD service with a Motorola DCT6412 dual tuner HD DVR hooked up through component input 3. The cablebox setup is 1080i for HD, force 480i for all else. The 1130's internal scalers seem to do a better job than the DVR's, no surprise there. I have the normal wall cable hooked to both ant a and ant b at the moment, just playing around with things. I am contemplating going Cablecard, but have to do some research as to how to get over-the-air channels to the tv ( I am under the impression using cablecard occupies ant a, the digital tuner in the MR, so I would not be able to use it for OTA purposes). There is an issue in my area with Comcast not carrying specific local channels that I still have to work out. I am in a new house, I have never used Comcast before, so I am having some channel issues at the moment, which I believe is due to Comcast. I have to call them later today. I will update back with whatever I find out.

In fact I will be headed over to the HDTV forum to check my area thread for some more info.

I have not watched a DVD yet, and I dont feel it is appropriate to talk black level in regards to broadcast streams, especially seeing how often the broadcasts arent quite right, and vary widely channel to channel and even show to show. Once I get some good DVD time on the set and learn some more of the intricacies of set-up, I will surely comment some more.

I have some noise that if very oddly pitched, and I cant tell if it is a MR fan or one of the HDD's in the DVR. Its not the typical pitch I would expect from either, but those are the best comparisons. I cannot hear it from >4 ft away with the tv off, but I still want to find out what it is. I will update back.

Sorry for the lack of pictures... I spent a good part of last night finishing my wall mount installation and getting the TV installed in it. I actually didnt have time to string the MR cable through the wall, so its kinda ghetto-fied across the mantle until I have time to get it into the wall. After mounting i spent my time watching it ;). Pictures are not far off, I promise. I feel bad not using the stand as it's the most well made piece of kit I've seen in a long, long time. And its not for sale, so dont ask!

Nitpicks:
I wish the media receiver cable was black, but its really an off-white color...
The speaker mounting brackets should be aluminum and not plastic...
The included speaker wire should be better insulated...
Pioneer should include warnings that when neighbors see the box, they will absolutely not leave you alone ;)
A 70lb display seems much heavier when lifting it above your shoulders to get it into a wall mount...

Other q's in this thread that I might be able to give some help on:

No audio lag issues whatsoever for me.
MR is most definitely black on the 1130, and says Elite on it ;).
The display comes packaged in a large carton, with three smaller boxes inside, one is the display, one is the stand, one is the MR. The tweeter guys who delivered and unboxed my unit left me the inner boxes if anyone needs info off of them.

Great post. Can't wait to see the pictures. I'm really, really leaning towards purchasing an elite over the regular 60 series. Got one question though, is it a good or bad thing to have a ferrite bead in the power cord?

LamJNS

10-12-05, 02:45 PM

Good thing, it helps minimize interference.

D-Nice

10-12-05, 02:47 PM

Good thing, it helps minimize interference.

Cool, thanks for the quick response.

eelton

10-12-05, 02:52 PM

LamJNS

10-12-05, 02:52 PM

no problem

eelton

10-12-05, 02:59 PM

OK, you don't have to buy it, it is just is...

Each broadcaster chooses how to compress that "Digital" stream. So let’s say the original signal is 99% free of artifacts, snow, fragments etc. The cable/satellite company then takes that signal and before passing it on to you compresses the bitstream by aprox 5-10% to fit their bandwidth.
Then along the cable lines you loose about 5% of the signal even with boosters at propagation stations (they boost the signal with the acquired noise as well). By the time you get the signal to your cable box you have lost aprox 10-15% of the best possible signal which wasn't perfect to begin with.
Even if your cable company uses Fibre instead of conventional copper lines, you still will pickup interference where the fibre converts to copper near your house/building.
So yes digital cable/sat system can still suffer from signal degradation. BTW the cable box also introduces another 1-2% signal degradation, that is why pure signal with a cable card will always be slightly better then a cable box.
I prefer the features of my DVR cable box, so it will stay, but some other people may not care for PPV/DVR or other features.I'm with you on the decrease in picture quality with compression, which is a "lossy" process. However, for a given digital signal--which is a series of ones and zeroes--a decrease in signal strength makes no difference, until it gets so low that the ones and zeroes are indecipherable. At that point, you lose reception altogether.

The idea of interference is an extrapolation from analog broadcasting which doesn't apply to digital. Interference, or a decrease in signal strength, won't change any of your ones to zeroes or zeroes to ones, and it won't cause any twos to be thrown into the mix. That's the great advantage of digital broadcasting--it's immune to interference.

Having said that, I agree with D-Nice that what RKA describes--blocky pixellation which appears and disappears--is likely related to signal strength. This is the appearance one sees when the signal wavers just above and below the threshold for reception. In some cases, it can also be from a signal that's *too* strong, overwhelming the tuner; this can be fixed with an attenuator. (I had to do this with the OTA connection to my HDTiVo).

pstrisik

10-12-05, 03:01 PM

The display comes packaged in a large carton, with three smaller boxes inside, one is the display, one is the stand, one is the MR. The tweeter guys who delivered and unboxed my unit left me the inner boxes if anyone needs info off of them.

Thanks for the initial review. Sounding good!

I'd love to get the dimensions of the 1130 box that holds the panel. I might take another run at seeing if it will fit upright in my Escape.

LamJNS

10-12-05, 03:33 PM

I'm with you on the decrease in picture quality with compression, which is a "lossy" process. However, for a given digital signal--which is a series of ones and zeroes--a decrease in signal strength makes no difference, until it gets so low that the ones and zeroes are indecipherable. At that point, you lose reception altogether.

The idea of interference is an extrapolation from analog broadcasting which doesn't apply to digital. Interference, or a decrease in signal strength, won't change any of your ones to zeroes or zeroes to ones, and it won't cause any twos to be thrown into the mix. That's the great advantage of digital broadcasting--it's immune to interference.

Actually signal strength does play a significant role as well as interference or jitter.
As interference from other electronic devices changes the data stream the signal picks up or looses data... either extra 1 or 0. So if the signal originally was 001101001, it changes to 00110010010.
This is where these additional bits change the original signal by introducing distortion, such as micro blocking and other artifacts which you see when the picture breaks up or changes tint and color etc.
You ever wonder why most “Digital” DVI/HDMI cables can only support 10M distances @ 1080p?
We it’s because there is only so much protection that shielding will provide for such a powerful digital signal at higher lengths before the picture quality degrades. You don’t need to loose the entire feed to destroy the digital signal, just introduce enough noise to remove or add additional data into the stream will do the trick.

This is actually why all digital cables are shielded and cable companies install amplifiers in their cable networks. If what you wrote was correct there would be no need to shield the cables or to amplify the signal since those 1’s and 0 would never change…

osx-addict

10-12-05, 04:10 PM

Thanks for the initial review. Sounding good!

I'd love to get the dimensions of the 1130 box that holds the panel. I might take another run at seeing if it will fit upright in my Escape.

If it gives you any ideas, we bought a Pioneer PDP5040HD a while back at a not-so-local Costco and had to drive it home quite a ways (~2 hrs) and it BARELY fit into the back of our 2001 Honda Odyssey minivan.. The huge box it was crated in at Costco was disassembled in the parking lot and we placed the individual inner boxes in the van.. Very little room left for my two kids & wife and the box went almost to the ceiling of the van (perhaps a few inches of clearance.. Very well packaged overall!

MaliciousBraham

10-12-05, 04:19 PM

"MaliciousBraham"

Does the stand have a power swivel?

Didn't the speakers come with the TV as well?
You said only 3 boxes... PDP, MR & Stand.

Thanks

no power swivel, but the most sturdy, well built, wide, thick, strong manual swivel stand I have ever seen. Hitachi is the only plasma maker I know of that includes a power swivel base, on the 42" plasmas. It costs extra on the 55's. But the Elite Pio stand is non power, but it does swivel.

If I recall correctly the speaker boxes were inside the main panel box. The tweeter guys unboxed it, or I would remember more acurrately. Each box is specifically branded "Elite", except for possibly the stand. I'll try and get some pics up asap so I dont have to rely on my memory. I didnt have the wall mount up at the time the set was delivered, so they unboxed it and set it up on an unused end table, using the stand.

Great post. Can't wait to see the pictures. I'm really, really leaning towards purchasing an elite over the regular 60 series. Got one question though, is it a good or bad thing to have a ferrite bead in the power cord?

The bead is a good thing, but being an EE myself, I only see ferite beads in situations where they are needed, not just for extra measure. The power cords are physically the same as standard personal computer cords, save the beads. I could see issues in the future if someone decided to replace the cable or used one without a bead... just something I noticed. Unless one has an engineering degree (or some special fondness for beads ;)), something like that would probably go un-noticed.

I'm with you on the decrease in picture quality with compression, which is a "lossy" process. However, for a given digital signal--which is a series of ones and zeroes--a decrease in signal strength makes no difference, until it gets so low that the ones and zeroes are indecipherable. At that point, you lose reception altogether.
The idea of interference is an extrapolation from analog broadcasting which doesn't apply to digital. Interference, or a decrease in signal strength, won't change any of your ones to zeroes or zeroes to ones, and it won't cause any twos to be thrown into the mix. That's the great advantage of digital broadcasting--it's immune to interference.

dont think of it as just bits, but a bit-stream. Like a skipping cdplayer. A consistent bitstream is required for accurate synch and decode. Inconsistent bit-streams manifest themselves in any number of ways because, unlike a cdplayer there are multiple datastreams. Also, all the digital signal is in fact encoded on an analog carrier wave, so analog signal strength principles still apply, albeit at a higher level.

I'd love to get the dimensions of the 1130 box that holds the panel. I might take another run at seeing if it will fit upright in my Escape.

sure, I'll measure and post asap, but i'm at work now, will be home later tonight. I didnt keep the main larger box with the wooden shipping pallet attached at the bottom, just the 3 main inner boxes and their contents.

incubus2828

10-12-05, 04:21 PM

Question, when I view a DVD (with letterbox), do you notice a faint black & white (gray?) stripe between the top black bar and picture? It's about .5 of an inch. I've noticed this whenever I view a DVD or even TV when a letterbox (widescreen) is present. Wondering if this is normal? Basically, it looks like the following...

BLACK BAR
BLACK & WHITE (Gray-ish) (.5 inch)
PICTURE
BLACK BAR

Help please!

caesar1

10-12-05, 04:52 PM

pstrisik

10-12-05, 04:55 PM

sure, I'll measure and post asap, but i'm at work now, will be home later tonight. I didnt keep the main larger box with the wooden shipping pallet attached at the bottom, just the 3 main inner boxes and their contents.
Thanks. I don't need to big outer box. Just the biggest inner box that the panel comes in.

D-Nice

10-12-05, 04:58 PM

RKA

10-12-05, 05:27 PM

I've read every page of this thread, but I'm still not clear on this one issue:

Does the Elite (50 inch) have any really noticeable picture quality improvement over the 5060 -- or is it pretty much the same?

If so, what is the advantage of the "Elite" (other than bragging rights)?

Can I throw out a theory? I suspect the actual panels are exactly the same. The differences between the two are largely in the level we are able to calibrate them, or additional flexibility in processing options with the Elites. I suspect those differences are found in the media receivers. Whether those differences are simply a firmware difference, or whether there is a hardware difference is a good question, and one I would love to know the answer to. If it's a firmware difference, you can see where I'm going with this.

Anyway, addressing your question more directly, if the differences between the units are in the ability to fine tune each panel, I would expect real world differences to be relatively small. Then again, for some folks on these forums, it's those small things that mean the world...so it's all relative.

caesar1

10-12-05, 05:37 PM

Until someone has both side-by-side to compare.....as the Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop commercial goes......

"The world may never know"

Well beside a subjective compare -- objectively, are the internal components the same? Or is that not yet public knowledge?

LamJNS

10-12-05, 06:05 PM

Well we can hypothesize that the Elite panels ->(the actual plasma glass) is identical to 5060 panels.
However the electronics may play a role in the image difference if any.
So the media receivers are different. I don't think it’s just the firmware. They may perhaps have a slightly more powerful processor for de-interlacing and scaling... Perhaps!
There might be tighter quality control and better calibration out of the FACTORY for the elites. There is definitely longer warranty 2yrs as apposed to 1yr for xx60 panels.
That might be an indication that the parts to assemble the elite displays are slightly higher tolerance ->(not the glass, just the assembly parts and the Media Receivers).
Other then that I honestly don't know what would make them that much better and I doubt it does. It comes down to preference and price.
The regular panels are discounted much higher then the elites. Some dealers won't even budge on the MSRP for the elites.

Just buy what you can afford and be happy with... :)

curthendrix

10-12-05, 07:14 PM

Curious....has anyone with both technical knowledge and plasma review experience ever done an exhausted side by side comparison between the elite and non-elite panel?

R11

10-12-05, 08:39 PM

Thanks. I don't need to big outer box. Just the biggest inner box that the panel comes in.
Box dimensions for the 1130 from the Pio web site:

Dimensions (inches / lbs)
Display (W X H x D) 48.2 x 28.2 x 3.6
Display (lbs) 70.1 lbs
Media Receiver (W x H x D) 16-9/16 x 3-9/16 x 11-13/16
Media Receiver (lbs) 9.9 lbs
Carton Dimensions (W x H x D) 61.5 x 46.5 x 21.5
Carton Dimensions (lbs) 169 lbs.

ron

pstrisik

10-12-05, 11:10 PM

Box dimensions for the 1130 from the Pio web site:

Dimensions (inches / lbs)
Display (W X H x D) 48.2 x 28.2 x 3.6
Display (lbs) 70.1 lbs
Media Receiver (W x H x D) 16-9/16 x 3-9/16 x 11-13/16
Media Receiver (lbs) 9.9 lbs
Carton Dimensions (W x H x D) 61.5 x 46.5 x 21.5
Carton Dimensions (lbs) 169 lbs.

ron
Thanks Ron. I'll have to stick to delivery. 46.5" high is definitely too much.

RKA

10-13-05, 12:05 AM

maldical

10-13-05, 08:31 AM

rover2002

10-13-05, 10:01 AM

This should be the official 5060 thread as there really is just a few bits&bobs on the 4360.
Has enyone actully got the 4360 and can make afew pros/cons with this and there old model?
Thx Will.

rub_123

10-13-05, 10:45 AM

I received it on Saturday and I finally mounted it and turned it on last night. All I hooked up was the media receiver and my HD-Tivo. It was a new Tivo so it went right into the setup screen. After ten minutes of going through the setup process and 10 minutes on the phone with D-TV. It was up and running. As soon as the first bright scene hit I could see an imprint of the Tivo setup screen faintly in the background. Is it burned or is this image retention? If it is image retention how long will it be there? Do I have to break-in the plasma before it starts going away? I checked it again this morning after being off for about 6 hours and it was still there. I just need to know if I have to call the B&M I got it from and get a new one already. Thanks for any help.

I received an email from Pioneer last night. Email was titled "De-Bunking Plasma Myths". Here's what they said about image retention:

There's no need to miss your movie or lose your place in your video game; image retention is unlikely to happen during the few minutes it takes to get a cold one from the fridge. But you should be careful about leaving a static image on screen for really long periods of time. The IDC/ISF study found that a static image left on the plasma for 48 hours will create a "ghost" effect where you can still see that image after the TV is turned off. The good news is that the ghosting was virtually erased after a regular DVD loop ran on the screen for 24 hours. So whether you pause for 5, 10 or even 60 minutes, the IDC/ISF study found it extremely unlikely that any static image will be noticeable or left on the screen. So, while we don't recommend leaving the DVD menu onscreen for the whole weekend, a few minutes won't destroy your TV.

D-Nice

10-13-05, 11:44 AM

pstrisik

10-13-05, 11:48 AM

Well guys,

I've finally decided that I'm going to buy an Elite 930 in the next 2 weeks or so. A local authorized dealer (well about an hour away) is selling them for $400 more than the price quote I got from TVA. Now thats a deal!!!!
Wise choice, if I don't say so myself! :D

Is that $400 under the quote for a 4360 (TVA doesn't sell the elite line I don't think.)? If so, that is quite a deal.

D-Nice

10-13-05, 11:53 AM

Wise choice, if I don't say so myself! :D

Is that $400 under the quote for a 4360 (TVA doesn't sell the elite line I don't think.)? If so, that is quite a deal.

Just to make sure I don't break forum rules....

The 4360 MSRP is $4500 and the 930 is $5000. Take that scenario and substitute TVA's price for the 4360 and add $400 to that price. That is what I'll be paying.

pstrisik

10-13-05, 12:08 PM

Just to make sure I don't break forum rules....

The 4360 MSRP is $4500 and the 930 is $5000. Take that scenario and substitute TVA's price for the 4360 and add $400 to that price. That is what I'll be paying.
Yes, good deal. Assumption has been, given $500 difference between 4360 and 930 that we would be able to get the 4360 with a greater discount than the 930 making for a greater than $500 real world difference between them.

LamJNS

10-13-05, 01:10 PM

So many users with 1130's in their possession and yet not a single picture... Are you guys just lazy or you just don't have one - LoL. If you have one prove it!
Come on now, don't be shy... :p

pstrisik

10-13-05, 01:37 PM

So many users with 1130's in their possession and yet not a single picture... Are you guys just lazy or you just don't have one - LoL. If you have one prove it!
Come on now, don't be shy... :p
They are probably re-viewing their entire DVD collection and catching up on reruns of "American Chopper" that they missed on Discovery HD!

I wish I had my set so I could show it off. I'm ready to take pics, but it'll probably be old hat by the time that slow boat reaches Alaska. Estimated arrival at Magnolia is 10/23. :(

And "slow boat" is not an exaggeration. The box had to ship from Pio in California to the Best Buy distribution center in D.C. It then got on a Best Buy shipment by truck to Tacoma WA. Then on a barge to Anchorage.

It's a wonder I got the deal I did!

sjcabby

10-13-05, 01:50 PM

Is the stock Media Receiver cable in-wall rated? BB/Magnolia wants to sell me the 10m (pda-h03) because it is in-wall rated and the stock cable is not. I should be able to use the stock 3m cable length. I am set up to run it through in-wall conduit. Any idea as to wether one is in-wall rated as opposed to the other?

LamJNS

10-13-05, 01:53 PM

LoL, yeah sounds like you will get it by Christmas... Good luck

5 minutes away from their TV to take 1 lousy picture... come on guys don't be lazy.

LamJNS

10-13-05, 01:54 PM

gene1138

10-13-05, 02:14 PM

MaliciousBraham

10-13-05, 02:49 PM

LoL, yeah sounds like you will get it by Christmas... Good luck

5 minutes away from their TV to take 1 lousy picture... come on guys don't be lazy.

I went home at lunch just to shut you up ;):D

Misc boxes (http://www.braham.org/tv/boxes.jpg) - There were in fact 4 total, Panel, MR, Stand, and speakers
Panel Box (http://www.braham.org/tv/panel_box.jpg)
Remote (http://www.braham.org/tv/remote.jpg)
MR (http://www.braham.org/tv/MR.jpg) -- yes those are hockey pucks... my new AV cabinent is yet to arrive.
Front (http://www.braham.org/tv/front.jpg)
I told you the cable is ghettofied at the moment so no funny comments;)
Wall side (http://www.braham.org/tv/wall_side.jpg)
Side Close (http://www.braham.org/tv/side_close.jpg)
..... (http://www.braham.org/tv/nature.jpg)

Please excuse the mess,just moved in recently... work in progress ;)

sjcabby

10-13-05, 02:57 PM

They are made exactly the same, so I don't see why not. You can check the cable jacket to see what rating is printed on it.

I'd have to agree. They should be exactly the same except for the difference in length. Think they just want to make some extra profit off of ya.

Thanks guys, I'll take a look at the jacket. The sales guy convinced my wife we needed the cable when she ordered the 1130. We picked up the display last night -- the cable won't be in until 11/1 -- so we have time to cancel the cable. She laughs at my frequenting these forums -- until it saved us money -- now she is a believer. :rolleyes:

D-Nice

10-13-05, 03:03 PM

I went home at lunch just to shut you up ;):D

Misc boxes (http://www.braham.org/tv/boxes.jpg) - There were in fact 4 total, Panel, MR, Stand, and speakers
Panel Box (http://www.braham.org/tv/panel_box.jpg)
Remote (http://www.braham.org/tv/remote.jpg)
MR (http://www.braham.org/tv/MR.jpg) -- yes those are hockey pucks... my new AV cabinent is yet to arrive.
Front (http://www.braham.org/tv/front.jpg)
I told you the cable is ghettofied at the moment so no funny comments;)
Wall side (http://www.braham.org/tv/wall_side.jpg)
Side Close (http://www.braham.org/tv/side_close.jpg)
..... (http://www.braham.org/tv/nature.jpg)

Please excuse the mess,just moved in recently... work in progress ;)

Absolutely gorgeous. I like how Pioneer extended the depth of the speakers as they will hide all concealed wiring on side views.

LamJNS

10-13-05, 03:27 PM

YOU'RE THE MAN ! :D

Thanks for the pics... BTW how are you going to run those cables when your new stand for the components comes in?
It looks like a small 1/2" white conduit on the left side of your fireplace would work well. Conseals and not too conspicuous.

Cheers for the first elite pics!

I went home at lunch just to shut you up ;):D

Misc boxes (http://www.braham.org/tv/boxes.jpg) - There were in fact 4 total, Panel, MR, Stand, and speakers
Panel Box (http://www.braham.org/tv/panel_box.jpg)
Remote (http://www.braham.org/tv/remote.jpg)
MR (http://www.braham.org/tv/MR.jpg) -- yes those are hockey pucks... my new AV cabinent is yet to arrive.
Front (http://www.braham.org/tv/front.jpg)
I told you the cable is ghettofied at the moment so no funny comments;)
Wall side (http://www.braham.org/tv/wall_side.jpg)
Side Close (http://www.braham.org/tv/side_close.jpg)
..... (http://www.braham.org/tv/nature.jpg)

Please excuse the mess,just moved in recently... work in progress ;)

MaliciousBraham

10-13-05, 03:29 PM

Absolutely gorgeous. I like how Pioneer extended the depth of the speakers as they will hide all concealed wiring on side views.

sorry about the photos being so dark, if they are for you... just crank up the contrast/brightness on your monitor and I promise much more detail is there.

This always seems to happen when I photo edit on my laptop. I get to work and look at my pictures and they are always waaay too dark on my work CRT.

MaliciousBraham

10-13-05, 03:32 PM

maldical

10-13-05, 03:49 PM

I received an email from Pioneer last night. Email was titled "De-Bunking Plasma Myths". Here's what they said about image retention:

There's no need to miss your movie or lose your place in your video game; image retention is unlikely to happen during the few minutes it takes to get a cold one from the fridge. But you should be careful about leaving a static image on screen for really long periods of time. The IDC/ISF study found that a static image left on the plasma for 48 hours will create a "ghost" effect where you can still see that image after the TV is turned off. The good news is that the ghosting was virtually erased after a regular DVD loop ran on the screen for 24 hours. So whether you pause for 5, 10 or even 60 minutes, the IDC/ISF study found it extremely unlikely that any static image will be noticeable or left on the screen. So, while we don't recommend leaving the DVD menu onscreen for the whole weekend, a few minutes won't destroy your TV.

So it sounds like image retention but mine goes away when the TV is off. I'm sure I'll have it running for a while this weekend. I'll see if it's still there afterwards. As soon as my basement is done (hopefully this weekend) I'll post pictures.

LamJNS

10-13-05, 04:01 PM

pstrisik

10-13-05, 05:23 PM

I went home at lunch just to shut you up ;):D

Misc boxes (http://www.braham.org/tv/boxes.jpg) - There were in fact 4 total, Panel, MR, Stand, and speakers
Panel Box (http://www.braham.org/tv/panel_box.jpg)
Remote (http://www.braham.org/tv/remote.jpg)
MR (http://www.braham.org/tv/MR.jpg) -- yes those are hockey pucks... my new AV cabinent is yet to arrive.
Front (http://www.braham.org/tv/front.jpg)
I told you the cable is ghettofied at the moment so no funny comments;)
Wall side (http://www.braham.org/tv/wall_side.jpg)
Side Close (http://www.braham.org/tv/side_close.jpg)
..... (http://www.braham.org/tv/nature.jpg)

Please excuse the mess,just moved in recently... work in progress ;)
Very pretty! The panel seems to work very well above your fireplace. I usually don't say that with high mounts.

The only think I don't like is that ugly red TVGuide logo on the beautiful black MR! :mad:

maldical

10-13-05, 05:45 PM

Pioneer doesn't warrant image retention, so I don't know if the retailer would even accept the display back becuase of it. But I sincerely doubt that it won't go away. Just pop in a dvd stretch to fill the screen and let it run loop.

I don't mind if it's image retention and it goes away. I was just afraid it was something worse. If I burned the screen with "out of the box" settings after 20 minutes, that would sound like a defect.

eelton

10-13-05, 05:47 PM

The only think I don't like is that ugly red TVGuide logo on the beautiful black MR! :mad:The first thing I did with mine was peel that logo off (it's just a sticker). There's a small, black TVGuide logo underneath--matching the other logos. TVGuide must have paid them extra to put the obnoxious sticker on.

apru

10-13-05, 06:22 PM

Or more likely, it is a requirement of TV Guide as part of their licensing arrangement, to display their brand insignia.

LamJNS

10-13-05, 07:27 PM

As long as its just a sticker and not a permanent logo, does it really matter?

pstrisik

10-13-05, 07:32 PM

The first thing I did with mine was peel that logo off (it's just a sticker). There's a small, black TVGuide logo underneath--matching the other logos. TVGuide must have paid them extra to put the obnoxious sticker on.
What a relief! I couldn't tell it was just a sticker from the picture. I should be able to sleep tonight now. ;)

RKA

10-13-05, 11:15 PM

Thanks to eelton, I got my PDK-1012 stand (5th gen Elite stand) today and bolted it onto the plasma. Just a couple quick comments:

Pros: Looks nice in the glossy black finish (matches the TV bezel), small amount of tilt (2 degrees) available, and about 10 degrees of swivel back and forth. The tilt requires a wrench the adjust, so it's something you want to set and forget. The swivel can be freely adjusted as-needed.

Cons: Not as sturdy as the stand included with the 5060, while also being 3 times heavier. If you look at the stand included with the 5060, it has 2 metal L brackets that make up the feet. They sit about 18" apart and when attached to the silver base, they actually form a solid foundation for the plasma. The PDK-1012 has a 6" diameter disk that allows for the rotation. The entire weight of the TV is centered over this 6" disk. Not really a big deal, but just thought I would mention it.

One other comment...the 40mm long bolts that come with the 5060 stand have a little washer built into the neck of the bolt. The 40mm bolts that come with the 1012 don't have these washers...but should. I used the 40mm bolts with the washers and would recommend you do the same. Also, if you're looking for a used 1012...make sure you get the hardware with it. The bolts are different from the stand included with the 5060. The mounting to the TV is a little different as well, but the 5060 has all the necessary mounting points to accomodate either stand.

Here's a pic for good measure! :) (http://rajashar.smugmug.com/photos/39924069-L.jpg)
Here's the original 5060 stand for reference. (http://rajashar.smugmug.com/photos/39924579-L.jpg)

eelton

10-14-05, 06:29 AM

RKA--

Thanks for posting those before-and-after pictures. I've been wishing I had a digital camera to demonstrate how much better the 5060 looks with the black swivel stand. I agree the single support is a less stable design, but it still feels quite solid to me, and it gives the plasma more of a floating appearance.

Trblmkr

10-14-05, 07:03 AM

I just got my 5060 yesterday and haven't unpacked the TV as of yet. I do have a question about t he stand. I was reading the owners manual and they suggest that you MOUNT your stand to your entretainment center.... have any of you done this ??

Also I purchased the swivel stand off of e-bay and it should be here soon. Does this one need to be mounted as well, and if it does, can you use the same holes as the original stand??

Thanks

RKA

10-14-05, 08:19 AM

There are two holes in the back of each of the stands. They are in the same location and intended for you to run screws through them into the surface the TV will be placed on. So, yes, both stands can use the same holes.

There is no way in hell I'm drilling into my entertainment center. And frankly, there is no need unless you place the stand/plasma in a location that sees a lot of traffic, or you have children that don't understand "do not touch". Even then, it's still not easy to tip this thing over...you really need a few teenage boys playing football in the house to knock this thing down. If that ever happens, you can make the boys work to pay for the replacement with zero guilt.

sconset

10-14-05, 09:37 AM

LamJNS

10-14-05, 11:21 AM

Where do you see ambilight technology in those pictures?

maldical

10-14-05, 11:28 AM

Well the image retention issue I had did go away. I now have my 1130 bruning in with an HD channel at 0 contrast and very low brightness. Unfortunately my current delima is with Stands and Mounts the company. Customer service is sooooo bad they actually hung up on me. I won't go into the horror story about them but this just a lesson learned that I MUST use forum sponsers to expect good customer service. So to all the forum sponsers, I apologize.

sconset

10-14-05, 02:21 PM

Where do you see ambilight technology in those pictures?

Umm.. let's see..everywhere...the whole pic looks like The Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown
It was kinda a joke.. but take a look at this pic again.... you really don't see it???

http://rajashar.smugmug.com/photos/39924069-L.jpg

D-Nice

10-14-05, 03:26 PM

eelton

10-14-05, 03:39 PM

Well, I placed my order for my 930 today. Will have it before 8AM Monday morning (No driver there today to deliver it). Got it for exactly $450 (delivery included) more than what TVA quoted me for the 4360.

Next purchase..... 1130Wow that's a great price. You must be some negotiator!

Congratulations--I look forward to your observations.

LamJNS

10-14-05, 04:30 PM

Umm.. let's see..everywhere...the whole pic looks like The Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown
It was kinda a joke.. but take a look at this pic again.... you really don't see it???

http://rajashar.smugmug.com/photos/39924069-L.jpg

That is just the lighting condition which the camera didn't compensate for, but I guess I see what you mean. With Ambi, it should be like a glow around the plasma, but the pic has evenly distributed pumkin tint colors.

D-Nice

10-14-05, 04:37 PM

Wow that's a great price. You must be some negotiator!

Congratulations--I look forward to your observations.

Actually, no negotiation was needed as that is their normal price. I never knew that authorized Elite dealers sell that low. I just checked their price on a 1130 and its also only 400 above the 5060's price.

seattlemike

10-14-05, 05:33 PM

MaliciousBraham

10-14-05, 05:47 PM

Hey guys, was over looking at the pio 5060 at plasma.com, they are also an authorized dealer and noticed this quote about using a digital setup through a home theater system with cable/sat setup. Here .is the quote; Please Note: This unit is a "turn key" Plasma tv and is recommended for installations where no separate sound system is used. If your system has a surround sound receiver or separate sound system and you are using Digital cable or satellite you may wish to consider the Pioneer PDP-504CMX plasma. Can anyone explain what they are trying to say, my impression has always been either system would work fine with the proper receiver, am I missing something here? cheers Mike

They are just saying the 5060 has internal tuners and attached speakers.

Someone who already has an external audio system wouldnt need speakers and someone with a cable box or sat box or other external tuner wouldnt need the internal tuners either.

You are correct in saying that the 5060 works no matter what, but some of the features are just not being used... The 504cmx is monitor only, so the theory they are putting forth is "If you arent using them, why buy them?"... I dont agree with it though... You never know what the future might hold, so why limit your configuration options?

They probably just have a big stock of 504cmx's to get rid of...

RKA

10-14-05, 07:13 PM

Umm.. let's see..everywhere...the whole pic looks like The Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown
It was kinda a joke.. but take a look at this pic again.... you really don't see it???

http://rajashar.smugmug.com/photos/39924069-L.jpg

Sorry...I screwed up the white balance when taking the shot. I was too lazy to go back and reshoot...besides...it's almost halloween!

LamJNS

10-14-05, 07:15 PM

Its not a problem...
When is your A/V stand coming in? I would like to see the final product from someone who actually has one of the new displays in possession, waiting for mine to arrive.

Will take some shots as soon as its here and setup.

rub_123

10-15-05, 02:14 AM

I received my 1130 this afternoon. The B&M installer helped me put it together. I wateched the Sox/Angels game and was very impressed with the quality of the picture. All the black objects (Sox helmets, shirts, caps) were definitely black. I've only set up the OTA Antenna feed and the DirecTV feed. I'll hook up DVD tomorrow.

Other observations:

- Good HD feed is breathtaking. Local PBS channel and HDNET in particular provided some stunning displays.
- I paid additional $$ for roughly 8 channels for HD on DirecTV. Local OTA Hi-Def is limited to Fox and PBS. For some reason local ABC/NBC/CBS stations don't provide HD - very frustrating, but the subject of another thread. :mad:
- The panel does appear to make a slight humming/buzzing noise whenever extremely white scenes are displayed. Shouldn't be an issue unless you happen to be watching a Ski movie. :)
- Red TV Guide logo on Media Receiver is in fact just a sticker. However when you remove the sticker you'll find a TV Guide Logo that's in Gold Lettering. This is similar to the Dolby Digital lgoo that you'll also find on the MR. these Pretty inconspicuous.
- I had trouble with my OTA Antenna feed initially. I have only one Coaxial line running from the roof to my family room. In the past I've combined OTA Antenna feed and DirecTV ifeed nto the one line and then split them at the receiver. This set up worked well - I received both analog signal from OTA and a a Digital signal for DirecTv. However, when I used this arrangement with my new HD DirectTV receiver, I was unable to receive the OTA Hi-Def signals. Right now I'm using rabbit ears in the family room to receive OTA digital signal. I may need to break down and run a dedicated line from the root to the receiver. :(

Good luck to those of you waiting on delivery. It's well worth the wait.

Trblmkr

10-15-05, 07:20 AM

Well I finally got mine delivered to me on Thursday night.. I played around with it a littles as far as the unpacking but had to wait till Friday when a friend came over to help me with the TV itself.

Connection and instructions for the whole thing where amazing. The book was very detailed for every aspect of the assembly (for those that actually read the owners manuals :) )

I started off with the settings recommend by the posts on this forum and I got to say.. AWESOME!!!!! I don't know about screen buzz, jitter, etc... to me the thing just blew me away... and I was only watching HBOHD.

Then I popped in a DVD and WOW.... Now my DVD doesn't have HDMI so I"m only using composite but I could still see a huge difference and I'm very impressed. I'm still thinking of getting a new DVD player with HDMI based on everything I've read here on the forums... that should be coming shortly.

Only problem I've run into is with SD channels from my cable box. They look NASTY... I've played around with the 8300HD's settings all over the place as well as the TV's settings and I can't get them to look any better then OTA pictures. Any suggestions I'd love to hear them.

Here are a few pics of my set up.

PugFan

10-15-05, 09:10 AM

My 1130 is up and running as well. I echo the comments that have been made previously....wow!

One concern I have is the DVD PQ. I am using composite (good quality) to the MR but am a little disappointed with the results. Is composite the best way to go as far as PQ is concerned? I was under the impression that composite produces better results than S-Video.

Just a heads up... there are 2 pieces of self adhesive felt that go between the TV and the speakers that I forgot to put on at first. You can see light through that space that was very annoying to me. They may quiet vibration as well. Much better with them on.

After an afternoon of viewing I am very happy with the purchase!

jacksonian

10-15-05, 10:44 AM

One concern I have is the DVD PQ. I am using composite (good quality) to the MR but am a little disappointed with the results. Is composite the best way to go as far as PQ is concerned? I was under the impression that composite produces better results than S-Video.

Are you sure you mean composite? That would be the worst possible connection. Do you mean component (a three headed cable: red, green, and blue)? If you're using component and don't feel your pq is good, you may try changing your dvd player's output from progressive to interlaced or vice versa to see if the other scaler does a better job.

LamJNS

10-15-05, 01:01 PM

Its is best to feed these PDP's a pure digital signal, so HDMI/DVI would be the prefered connection. However component should give you an awesome picture as well.
Composite is certainly the lowest quality connection you can use.

PugFan

10-15-05, 01:36 PM

I do mean component, thank you. I will try changing the settings as suggested...

Gfraiha

10-15-05, 02:17 PM

Has any of the 5060 owners, done (or planning to do) professional ISF calibration? I was planning on doing that before I received it, but the PQ is so nice that I think it's gonna be a waste of money, even my video essential I thought it was a waste , as I'm able to calibrate it by eye and video essential returned pretty much the same results.If any of you folks did the ISF calibration could you enlighten us with the results of that?

rub_123

10-15-05, 06:04 PM

I'm planning on gedtting the 1130 calibrated roughly a month from now after initial 100 hour break in period. I just received my AVIA disc in the mail today and haven't yet had a chance to self-calibrate with that. Picture quality is already very good. Not sure how much upside there is when the picture quality is already at a high level. I'll tell more after I've calibrated with Avia.

BTW, are you saying that you did not notice much, if any difference with your DVE calibration disc?

spingrinder

10-16-05, 04:31 PM

Technics

10-16-05, 04:50 PM

dial911

10-16-05, 06:51 PM

Just a note to those in NorCal: just saw the 1130 on display at the Magnolia inside the BB in Concord. They put it up 2 days ago according to the store manager. I saw one heading out the door with a customer. Ordering today, I was told, would give a delivery date of Nov 10th.

I did ask the gentleman who was about to wheel his new purchase out the door what price he paid. I don't believe forum rules allow me to repeat what he told me, but let's just say it wasn't msrp.

LamJNS

10-16-05, 07:40 PM

Hello there! I've got mine 4 days ago and this is a temporary setup since I still wait for my Arcam equipment to show up!! I saw you guys want to see some pictures of the new Pioneers, so here are some!

Can someone measure the depth of their elite stand and let me know. From front to back. just the base plate, not the TV.

Thank you.

Gfraiha

10-16-05, 10:12 PM

What I was saying is that VE returned almost identical values of what I had within, so yes not mych improvments, Plus it give you values for DVD and when you switch to HD(cable) then those values are not real;y optimal, visual calibration is working better for me, that is all. As I have my cable connected thru components (input1) BTW my cable box has no HDMI (bummer), and Svideo(input2), I use Svideo to watch regular channels, somehow it looks better then component. DVD on HDMI (input3) . next gonna try the coax as well for regular TV, to see what's the optimal regualr TV watching , as we all know HD channels are very limited now days so we still have to watch regular cable :/

rub_123

10-16-05, 10:20 PM

LamJNS:

1130 Base Stand is 22 3/4" wide by 15" deep.

LamJNS

10-16-05, 10:26 PM

thank you so much.
:)

rub_123

10-16-05, 10:29 PM

Anyone know how to go directly to the input screen (DirecTV in my case) when you first turn the TV (1130) on? My problem is that I've programmed my DirecTV remote to power the 1130 on and off, this way I just have to teach the wife and kids and ocasional visitors how to use 1 remote. When I power the TV on, the image on the screen is the TV Guide screen. I can't exit out of it unless I grab my Pioneer remote and press the "TV Guide" button. This removes that image and takes me directly to the DirecTV guide which is where I want to be to begin. Maybe this question belongs in the "Remote" forum ??

LamJNS

10-16-05, 10:32 PM

Does the DirecTV remote have a learn function?
I haven't seen the manual for the new pios yet, but maybe there is a way of disabling the TVGuide from showing at the start.

eelton

10-16-05, 10:38 PM

LamJNS

10-16-05, 10:58 PM

There you go.. seems there is a way thanks to eelton's advice.

Playmaker

10-16-05, 11:30 PM

I recently purchased the Pioneer 5060 on Monday, October 10. I have about 25 hours of viewing on this, and have been satisfied with the excellent picture quality.

However, today I wathced the Astros game on Fox HD for about 3.5 hours, and my TV now suffers from image retention. I can see the NLCS Fox logo in the upper right area of the screen, and can see a lesser image that describes the inning and outs, just like I am watching the game. This retention is highly visible while watching a show that has a bright background. I have had it on Discover HD for the past 3.5 hours, and it is still there. Is this normal for this TV?

I have not had a chance to calibrate the settings, so I had it on Standard mode with the contrast turned down to 35 when this occurred.

Is there a screen wipe function on this TV that will display a white screen or white bars to help make this retention disappear?

Thanks.

rub_123

10-17-05, 12:06 AM

Setting the AutoGuide to "OFF" did the trick. My punchlist just keeps getting shorter thanks to all the great advise on this forum and others on AVS. Earlier I received some good advise that helped me fix a problem I was having with getting OTA Hi-Def signal on my combined SAT/ANT line. This forum is great for getting issues resolved - much better than some of the advise I've received at local retail shops.

I'm pretty new to this - this is my first plasma and this is also my first experience with HD, so lots of learning going on. As much as I was in awe of the picture quality, I realized earlier today that I had been watching content in 480 resolution. I switched the H10 receiver over to 720P and the PQ went up to yet another level. I was now able to see the Satin-like finish of the numbers on the St. Louis Cardinals uniforms. Lots more texture and depth to the picture than earlier viewing. Of course I also got to see the pitcher's (Escobar) bad acne up close and personal - I could have done without that :o .

I haven't yet had a chance to calibrate with Avia disc and it's a little too early for ISF calibration. Honestly, it's very hard to imagine the picture quality getting much better than this. It's hard to believe that I can wring yet more quality out of this set.

osx-addict

10-17-05, 12:37 AM

Can anyone tell me if either the 5060 or 50A5 speakers can be mounted on the bottom of the display? My space is just right for the display, but too small with the speakers. I know that they "detach" from the sides, but are the units made to allow mounting on the bottom?

My 5040HD allows speakers to be located on the sides and if I recall either the top or bottom -- don't recall since I wasn't interested.. I just remember they offered two ways to attach them.. Perhaps the newer units are equivalent for that as well

maldical

10-17-05, 07:38 AM

Playmaker

10-17-05, 07:48 AM

I had some image retention early on also but it did go away. All I did was turn the contrast to 0 and brightness all the way down and ran one of the HD channels all day while I was at work. Now until I get at least 100 hours on the 1130 my contrast and brightness stay really low. :D

I hope you are right because I ran it on Discovery HD for 12 hours, and as of now, it is still there. I can only see it when the screen is white or light blue in the affected area. I turned the contrast to 28, but I wonder if lowering the contrast will slow the healing process of the image retention.

I thought there was a factory built in white screen or scrolling white bars on these setes to help erase this? Does anybody know anything about this?

Secondly, I am now hesitant to watch any more baseball b/c this image was retained after just 3.5 hours and the contrast on 35. There were numerous commercial breaks to display different images during this time too. If these screens are this likely for image retention during the first 100 hours, you would think that the standard setting on the TV would have the contrast much lower.

D-Nice

10-17-05, 08:50 AM

I just took delivery of my Elite 930. I will post my impressions later today or tonight.

MaliciousBraham

10-17-05, 12:15 PM

Just updating my previous posts...

I started out with a Comcast 6412 HDDVR that was rev 2 with a DVI port and not HDMI. I was really impressed with SD, but was missing some Digital stations and HD stations.

Comcast came out, checked everything, and the only solution they could come up with was to switch the box out, and that worked. It was replaced with a Rev 3 6412 that has the HDMI port. The SD quality is significantly worse on the Rev 3, so I've actually gone back to using the internal tuner for regular SD watching. I havent really delved into any special settings for the 6412 yet, but HD is just as good as it was on the Rev 2 box.

DVD watching... still havent done much on this yet, but as other have stated, 480p looks like crap, 480i isnt horrible, but still could be improved on. I am looking into HDMI upconverting players now to try a few things...

I dont doubt any of the image retention problems I'm reading here, but I'm honestly really surprised by them as I havent had any at all. I've had the brightness at -10 and the contrast at 20-25 for normal viewing, and actually when any movie or show came on that I was really into, I would turn the brightness back up to -3 or so and the contrast up to 35 or so. I'm doing all my viewing in PURE mode. I have found my personal favorite settings to adjust and will list those tonight.

I have noticed some blocking in very bright reds and bright yellows in PURE mode. Dont know for sure if it is source or tv, but turing purecinema mode to standard fixed this. I leave purecinema set to off for normal viewing, and if I see some type of blocking I turn it on. There may be some better way to fix this, but this is what I've found so far. I've only seen it occur when the colors are moving fast too. I've seen no blocking at all when things are slow/still. But in the Florida/LSU game on Saturday, the Florida helmets blocked pretty bad during a play. When in a huddle they were fine. Changing purecinema to standard fixed this issue totally for me. I have not adjusted any colors yet, but I have noticed that in scenes with lots of green, things that arent green seem to tint green a little. The scene has to have a LOT of green though for me to notice it.

I have some HDMI cables on order to try with DVD player and HD DVR box to see what I can change/make better. Hopefully I wont go the other way ;)

edit: thanks for that Guide setting too. My guide has not updated in the 5 days I've had the TV, and its a major annoyance to have it pop up every time I turn the TV on.

Edit #2 ;): One other important setting, I have the powersave mode in save2 I think its called, the maximum energy save mode. There are some real differences in the max brightness the screen outputs in the energy save modes, and I thought the brights were too bright anyway, so the save2 mode actually helped me as a picture adjustment for now.

eephus

10-17-05, 12:41 PM

caesar1

10-17-05, 12:53 PM

I've read varying reports of SD PQ on the Pioneers. I realize that it's a product of the bigger, higher resolution sets, but what are people's thoughts on the overall PQ with SD? In general, how do the Pioneer PDPs compare to other brands? I was told that the Hitachis are known to be better in this regard by a local high end store that carries both the Elites and Directors series. Unfortunately, they have neither new set to compare in person.

I've been leaning heavily towards the 5060, but the Hitachi 55" with possibly better SD PQ has me interested.

Put it this way. SD quality stinks on every large/widescreen TV (over 50 inches) -- no matter the brand, TV type (i.e, plasma, DLP, etc.) or anything. SD in general is horrible. Whether one SD is "better" -- is like saying that turd smells less than this turd.

The fact is, 99% of any major prime-time shows (other than unscripted) are all in HD now. Major sporting events are all in HD now.

The only stuff that lots of people watch that is not in HD are cable channels like CNN (or FOX News for the righties), MTV, Comedy Central, etc.

Although those channels may make up a good part of watching, whether CNN Southpark or MTV Cribs is a great picture isn't that big a deal if you think about it.

So IMO, HD and DVD quality are what matters on any widescreen purchase decision. I would just assume that SD will be ugly (particularly in contrast to HD) -- so there's not much to do about it.

rub_123

10-17-05, 01:00 PM

pstrisik

10-17-05, 01:48 PM

The fact is, 99% of any major prime-time shows (other than unscripted) are all in HD now. Major sporting events are all in HD now.

You forgot the "where available" caveat. The only broadcast stations that have HD available here so far are NBC and PBS. :mad:

eephus

10-17-05, 03:06 PM

Put it this way. SD quality stinks on every large/widescreen TV (over 50 inches) -- no matter the brand, TV type (i.e, plasma, DLP, etc.) or anything. SD in general is horrible. Whether one SD is "better" -- is like saying that turd smells less than this turd.

The fact is, 99% of any major prime-time shows (other than unscripted) are all in HD now. Major sporting events are all in HD now.

The only stuff that lots of people watch that is not in HD are cable channels like CNN (or FOX News for the righties), MTV, Comedy Central, etc.

Prime time and sports will make up most of my viewing, so I should be in great shape. Having said that, Jon Stewart and the local Fox affiliate Simpsons and Seinfeld reruns seem to get a lot of air play at our house. My wife likes TCM, AMC, Hallmark, USA, and other SD channels. My 3 year old watches Disney, PBS Kids, etc. I assume they'll be rather disappointed in "upgrading" our CRT to a $5000 turd.

As long as it's passable, I'll be happy. I'd like to find out more about the claim that Hitachi does a better job of scaling SD, though. 20% more screen is tempting.

caesar1

10-17-05, 03:08 PM

osx-addict

10-17-05, 03:41 PM

Prime time and sports will make up most of my viewing, so I should be in great shape. Having said that, Jon Stewart and the local Fox affiliate Simpsons and Seinfeld reruns seem to get a lot of air play at our house. My wife likes TCM, AMC, Hallmark, USA, and other SD channels. My 3 year old watches Disney, PBS Kids, etc. I assume they'll be rather disappointed in "upgrading" our CRT to a $5000 turd.

As long as it's passable, I'll be happy. I'd like to find out more about the claim that Hitachi does a better job of scaling SD, though. 20% more screen is tempting.

I think I was the one mostly disappointed when we bought the 5040HD a while back.. Now that we can actually record the HD signals (via our new direcTivo hr10-250), I find the set much more usable instead of just watching OTA signals whenever I happened to be around. In our house, my two kids didn't care about picture quality and my wife didn't really care too much either to complain about SD programming -- of couse she thoroughly enjoys watching HD content better..

Deathstalker

10-17-05, 04:17 PM

I got my 5060 today at 5pm PST. I had to twist Seko's arm to get them to deliver it today rather than Monday. This is my first plasma purchase and I am just speechless. Fortunately, I can still type and will give you my first impressions.

First of all, I purchased the 5060 from TVA. I would not hesitate to use them again. The plasma came double boxed, which was good, as there was a small shallow indention on one side of the box.

My first thought after removing the packing materal was that this is one beautiful plasma. The dark black, thin bezel is so much more attractive than the silver that is used in many of the competing displays.

Unfortunately, my second thought was what an ugly stand. I will eventually be hanging this plasma, but for the next few weeks this will be on the floor in my living room until the family room renovation is finished. The directions to mount the TV on the stand were somewhat retarded as well. You have to lay the plasma on its screen and then place two mounting screws on the back that you slide the stand onto. The problem is that the front of the stand juts out 6-7 inches in from of the screen and so they reccomend you placing it facedown on a table. I placed the mounting screws and then lifted the plasma on to the screws. Much simpler and less chance of something going wrong in my opinion.

Getting to the good stuff...the picture is phenomenal. I don't have the discerning eye that many in these forums have, but I know a beautiful picture when I see it. My first viewing experience was with my 5 year old daughter and as a result shrek 2 was the featured movie. Out of the box the colors are great. Blacks appear black enough for me and I have not noticed any artifacts.

Thank you all for the advice and guidance injected into these forums.

T2starr,

SEKO had the Pio arrive in Tampa (125 miles away) on Friday, they shipped it to Fort Myers (35 miles away) on Monday, then they sat on it all day Tuesday and did not get it to me until Wednesday afternoon. (There was no twisting their arm and even SEKO in Seattle and the corp headquarters in Chicago could not do anything to get it delivered on Tuesday.)

The Pio packaging was excellent, there was not even a dent on the outer box. The stand that came with the 5060 seems very cheap when you assemble it, but it only takes a couple of seconds to put it together (4 screws) and once it is together, it does the job. I had it on the stand for two days until I setup the Omni Mount. Having the Plasma coming out of the wall almost 4 feet takes some getting used to, and a little praying that it will not come crashing down from the wall. :eek:

I found the picture to be great, but I did tweak the color a little since to me the people look a little too red. Other then that an some adjustments to the Contrast and Brightness, everything else was great. All the extra connections on the AV Box made connecting the HD DTV TiVo and the upconverting DVD Player simple since it was just two HDMI connections. I could not believe how many wires I was able to eliminate from my previous setup. I have SAT and DVD via HDMI, VCR (since TiVo it only serves as a clock these days) via RCA, and I plugged in an Antenna, for kicks, via Coax. Then everything goes to my Receiver via Fiber Optics.

The manual for the Pio was standard, nothing too hard to follow, the TV Guide is useless since everything runs though the DTV TiVo anyway.

Overall, I am 100% satisfied with both the Plasma and mount.

Take Care,

Richard

jfranche

10-17-05, 05:06 PM

Prime time and sports will make up most of my viewing, so I should be in great shape. Having said that, Jon Stewart and the local Fox affiliate Simpsons and Seinfeld reruns seem to get a lot of air play at our house. My wife likes TCM, AMC, Hallmark, USA, and other SD channels. My 3 year old watches Disney, PBS Kids, etc. I assume they'll be rather disappointed in "upgrading" our CRT to a $5000 turd.

As long as it's passable, I'll be happy. I'd like to find out more about the claim that Hitachi does a better job of scaling SD, though. 20% more screen is tempting.

I think you observations are correct, and you wont get as straight an answer on this around here. Once people spend $5k+ on a TV, you find very few that will say it is bad.
I have a 38" CRT and a 50" Plasma at home, and as bad as people say SD is, they look great on my CRT. End of story. And guess what, 90% of what I watch isnt on the 10 HD channels that I have... so be honest with yourself on this.

liy

10-17-05, 05:34 PM

FWIW, I believe that it is the type of tuner used (i.e. analog v. digital) that makes the difference. SD on my Pioneer 5030 through the built-in analog tuner is more than acceptable.

However, I firmly believe, and the real reason I bought a plasma, is how HD and dvd's look on these displays. I have not been disappointed with either.

LIY

Tallcane

10-17-05, 05:35 PM

To any 1130 owner, what settings are you using during the "break in" or first 100 hours? I am curious how close most people are in their preferences. How many of you are using a calibration disc such as Avia? How many of you think you will change settings after the first 100 hours?

Ken Ross

10-17-05, 07:50 PM

I just took delivery of my Elite 930. I will post my impressions later today or tonight.

We're waiting!! :)

MaliciousBraham

10-17-05, 08:18 PM

Malicious, I had a similar experience with Pure mode. Once I switched to Standard mode, I noticed an instand improvement in PQ.

As for Eephus' concerns about SD quality - there's definitely a drop off in quality from HD, but I can't comment on Pioneer's SD quality without something to compare it against. You're looking for relative SD performance compared to other sets - just don't have that benchmark here. I can say that SD is very passable - nothing annoying, even if the quality drops off from HD benchmark.

I dont like standard mode ;)

If you think about it, you want to do the least amount of processing possible on the signal for it to look the best, so naturally you want to start off from no processing and slowly increment the features until you get what you want.

I start from PURE mode, which turns off all the processing features, then go into the menu and turn things on one at a time to see how they affect the picture. I have found that normally I leave DNR and MPEGNR both to low, and this gets rid of all normal artifacting to my eyes for 99% of the stations I watch in HD. The other 1% is either noise across an entire picture due to bad transfer or signal, in which case I bump up either NR feature to medium (I've never had to go higher than medium), or in the case of blocking in a bright color I switch PureCinema to std, from my default of off. ALL my adjustments are made in the PURE picture mode.

I was actually surprised to read the other thread and Rich (RHarkness) didnt take this same approach in his testing... I have absolutely no idea what Std mode does, but I know what PURE mode is doing, and thats absolutely nothing at all... until I tell it to by changing an option.

Always keep your expectations low with SD content. I did and was pleasantly surprised by this set. Expect "bad". That way when it turns out to be "decent" you are happy.

LamJNS

10-17-05, 10:31 PM

You are right. Excpect the worst, and hope for the best LoL.

I know that it can't be worse then my pioneer 1120 was, so its all good.

T2starr

10-17-05, 11:48 PM

T2starr,

SEKO had the Pio arrive in Tampa (125 miles away) on Friday, they shipped it to Fort Myers (35 miles away) on Monday, then they sat on it all day Tuesday and did not get it to me until Wednesday afternoon. (There was no twisting their arm and even SEKO in Seattle and the corp headquarters in Chicago could not do anything to get it delivered on Tuesday.)

The Pio packaging was excellent, there was not even a dent on the outer box. The stand that came with the 5060 seems very cheap when you assemble it, but it only takes a couple of seconds to put it together (4 screws) and once it is together, it does the job. I had it on the stand for two days until I setup the Omni Mount. Having the Plasma coming out of the wall almost 4 feet takes some getting used to, and a little praying that it will not come crashing down from the wall. :eek:

I found the picture to be great, but I did tweak the color a little since to me the people look a little too red. Other then that an some adjustments to the Contrast and Brightness, everything else was great. All the extra connections on the AV Box made connecting the HD DTV TiVo and the upconverting DVD Player simple since it was just two HDMI connections. I could not believe how many wires I was able to eliminate from my previous setup. I have SAT and DVD via HDMI, VCR (since TiVo it only serves as a clock these days) via RCA, and I plugged in an Antenna, for kicks, via Coax. Then everything goes to my Receiver via Fiber Optics.

The manual for the Pio was standard, nothing too hard to follow, the TV Guide is useless since everything runs though the DTV TiVo anyway.

Overall, I am 100% satisfied with both the Plasma and mount.

Take Care,

Richard

Congrats. Hope you were able to pay for your new plasma with your winnings in Vegas!

rub_123

10-17-05, 11:59 PM

Malicious, thaks for the insights into the differences between modes. I'm watching the Cardinals game (Pujols just hit a dramatic go ahead homerun by the way) and I placed the screen back in Pure mode. Everything "flattens" out and colors go duller when I go into that mode. I wasn't sophisticated enough to know that Pure represented the most "unaltered" state - kind of like having a clean palette. From there you have the most freedom to create the image that suits you best. I wasn't aware you could do that.

I haven't had a chance to experiment with different modes and settings and I have yet to set up my DVD player. But this weekend I will play around with Pure mode to see if I can't produce better results. Without tinkering a lot, Standard mode got me to the "ideal" picture much quicker than the other modes. Standard mode is certainly more convenient. Thanks again for the insight.

D-Nice

10-18-05, 01:09 AM

Ok,

Wow. What a beautiful panel.

I assembled the 930 right below my 5050 for comparison purposes and boy was it interesting.

Is the 930 leaps and bounds superior to the 5050? Nope. Is it an improvement? Yes indeed.

Pioneer 5050 settings:
AV Selection: User
Contrast: 30
Brightness: +3
Color: -13
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -1

Pro adjust:
Pure Cinema: Standard
Color Temp: Mid and Low
MPEG NR: On
DNR: Low
CTI: Off
DNR: On

Pioneer 930 settings
AV Selection: User
Contrast: 26
Brightness: -1
Color: -15
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -3

Pro adjust:
Pure Cinema; Standard
Color Temp: Manual
CTI: Off
MPEG NR: Low
DNR: Low
Dynamic Contrast: Mid
Black Level; On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 2

Colors were more natural on the 930. Watching MNF on ABC showed that whites were whiter, as compared to slightly dirty whites on the 5050. CSI Miami really shinned on both plasmas but reds were richer, blues were bluer and greens were more believable on the 930.

Black level and black detail...well that's where things get interesting.

I popped in my copy of Sin City on my Denon 3910 and connected the 930 with component (switched pure cinema to ADV as the output was set to 480i) and the 5050 to the HDMI port. 50 series Pioneer owners should be proud of their plasmas as they can produce very good blacks. Were the blacks better on the 930? Well yeah, but it's not as dramatic as if you compared the 930 to the 40 series Pioneers. 50 series owners are not missing a whole lot unless you like watching completely black screens where the difference can clearly be seen.

Black detail is a different story. The 930 is far superior to the 5050 in this area. Watching Bruce Willis run down the alley near the docks produced so much more depth. Water puddles looked far more pronouced on the 930. Windows could not hide in the shadows on the 930 where the 5050 only produced the top halves.
I really did not have a chance to fully compare the blacks but I will do further comparisons on the blacks of the 930 and 5050 later this week.

Well that's all for now.

pstrisik

10-18-05, 01:17 AM

Well that's all for now.

Music to my ears! I can hardly wait. I'm hoping for arrival to the store Sunday and delivery when I can arrange it early next week. Come on slow barge to Alaska!

MaliciousBraham

10-18-05, 08:32 AM

Music to my ears! I can hardly wait. I'm hoping for arrival to the store Sunday and delivery when I can arrange it early next week. Come on slow barge to Alaska!

I measured the panel box last night and it is:

52" L x 14.5" D x 35.5" H

So if you were to put it inside an SUV, it would require the ceiling a little more than 35.5" above the floor, and 52" long if you wanted to close the rear hatch behind it.

Those are the demensions of the box the panel came in, not the entire carton all the boxes came in ;)

Mit07

10-18-05, 10:53 AM

Ok,

Wow. What a beautiful panel.

I assembled the 930 right below my 5050 for comparison purposes and boy was it interesting.

Did you replace the 5050 with the 930 - or are they for different rooms?

D-Nice

10-18-05, 11:02 AM

No. The 930 replaces a 4350 that I sold 2 weeks ago. They were only in the same room last night.

rub_123

10-18-05, 11:40 AM

Pioneer 930 settings
AV Selection: User
Contrast: 26
Brightness: -1
Color: -15
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -3

Pro adjust:
Pure Cinema; Standard
Color Temp: Manual
CTI: Off
MPEG NR: Low
DNR: Low
Dynamic Contrast: Mid
Black Level; On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 2

D- Nice thanks for the initial review. Sounds like you're pretty excited about the qality of your panel.

I've only begun to make various tweaks to the picture and I'm familiar with the settings above except when you get to the "Pro Adjust". I've yet to see that particular group of options on the menu. How do I access those particular options?

D-Nice

10-18-05, 11:46 AM

D- Nice thanks for the initial review. Sounds like you're pretty excited about the qality of your panel.

I've only begun to make various tweaks to the picture and I'm familiar with the settings above except when you get to the "Pro Adjust". I've yet to see that particular group of options on the menu. How do I access those particular options?

What model do you have? If you have the 1130 or 930, the Pro Adjust menu is right below the sharpness setting. Within that menu, the color temp is in the Color detail menu, mpeg nr and dnr are located in the NR menu, and individual dre settings are in the DRE menu.

NemoZorro

10-18-05, 12:04 PM

Pioneer 930 settings
AV Selection: User
Contrast: 26
Brightness: -1
Color: -15
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -3

Pro adjust:
Pure Cinema; Standard
Color Temp: Manual
CTI: Off
MPEG NR: Low
DNR: Low
Dynamic Contrast: Mid
Black Level; On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 2

Thanks for posting these settings - I plan to get an 1130 soon and I'll try them. Also I got a DVE disc - thanks again for your advice.

oldcband

10-18-05, 12:13 PM

No. The 930 replaces a 4350 that I sold 2 weeks ago. They were only in the same room last night.
Good day D-Nice
Hey how about a Sharp lcd, Pio, side by side comparison. Lets dust it off and see those black levels you complained about, my Sharp's blacks are great. Love to see pic's of the blacks.

D-Nice

10-18-05, 12:45 PM

Good day D-Nice
Hey how about a Sharp lcd, Pio, side by side comparison. Lets dust it off and see those black levels you complained about, my Sharp's blacks are great. Love to see pic's of the blacks.

Sure. Do you have any picture settings I can borrow for the comparison?

oldcband

10-18-05, 02:12 PM

Sure. Do you have any picture settings I can borrow for the comparison?
standard settings
Backlight -1
contrast +31
color +1
sharpness 0
cms hue r-1 y-6 g-15 all 0 after that
cms sat y-8 g-15 color +15
cms value g+20
color temp high
black level ext on
Thanks d-nice
And you have a nice camera?

D-Nice

10-18-05, 02:17 PM

standard settings
Backlight -1
contrast +31
color +1
sharpness 0
cms hue r-1 y-6 g-15 all 0 after that
cms sat y-8 g-15 color +15
cms value g+20
color temp high
black level ext on
Thanks d-nice
And you have a nice camera?

Thanks for the settings. Camera, well if you consider a 5 megapixel Kodak ok, then yeah. I"ll do the comparison later this week (doing the break-in thing with the plasma right now)...if thats ok with you :)

oldcband

10-18-05, 02:20 PM

Thanks for the settings. Camera, well if you consider a 5 megapixel Kodak ok, then yeah. I"ll do the comparison later this week (doing the break-in thing with the plasma right now)...if thats ok with you :)
Of course at your lesiure. Thanks so much.

mkabra1973

10-18-05, 02:32 PM

does anyone know which wall mounting kit is easy to instll and will fit with pio 5060.

R11

10-18-05, 03:32 PM

I popped in my copy of Sin City on my Denon 3910 and connected the 930 with component (switched pure cinema to ADV as the output was set to 480i) and the 5050 to the HDMI port. 50 series Pioneer owners should be proud of their plasmas as they can produce very good blacks. Were the blacks better on the 930? Well yeah, but it's not as dramatic as if you compared the 930 to the 40 series Pioneers. 50 series owners are not missing a whole lot unless you like watching completely black screens where the difference can clearly be seen.

Black detail is a different story. The 930 is far superior to the 5050 in this area. Watching Bruce Willis run down the alley near the docks produced so much more depth. Water puddles looked far more pronouced on the 930. Windows could not hide in the shadows on the 930 where the 5050 only produced the top halves.
I really did not have a chance to fully compare the blacks but I will do further comparisons on the blacks of the 930 and 5050 later this week.D, you're funny. You say 50 series owners should be proud because their panels actually produce good black levels and that they're not really missing a whole lot, then you immediately proceed to rave about everything they are missing :D The new series simply does better blacks :).

ron

D-Nice

10-18-05, 03:38 PM

D, you're funny. You say 50 series owners should be proud because their panels actually produce good black levels and that they're not really missing a whole lot, then you immediately proceed to rave about everything they are missing :D The new series simply does better blacks :).

ron

Not really. There is a distinct difference between black level and black detail. Black level is how black (dark) can the display get. Black detail is exactly that, how much detail (i.e. wrinkles in the fabric of a black shirt) can you see in those dark areas.

Maybe I should have left out the "not missing a whole lot" as it may depict that I was talking about black detail in the dark areas.....my bad.

R11

10-18-05, 03:47 PM

Of course that's true. But it's pretty much splitting hairs and playing a semantics game when in reality the two are so interdependent for real world viewing. The real bottom line is what black level can be produced without blowing out all the shadow detail. Unless you like to sit and watch solid black screens anyway ;)

ron

skery

10-18-05, 05:24 PM

I finally have my 1130 up and running, everything looks fantastic, but I have one problem. on scenes with lots of white, I get a loud hum/buzz. I can easily hear it above the audio from 15 feet away.

I saw one post where somebody alluded to that. Anybody else?

should I take this panel back and get another?

thebishman

10-18-05, 05:31 PM

Gfraiha

10-18-05, 07:02 PM

does anyone know which wall mounting kit is easy to instll and will fit with pio 5060.
I found this on ebay (lead by one of the posters on this forum) for less then $80.00 and it's tilt and fits very well, and it's black to match the TV. it's the sanus VMPL brand but it's made for gateway, do a search for : "Gateway Plasma TV Wall Mount Kit 8006998" , the guy is very decent I talked to him on the phone , and I think he has more of those in stock, and the above mentioned above was include shipping and all.

MaliciousBraham

10-18-05, 07:56 PM

another update, although minor.

After testing with the Boston/Montreal NHL game on OLN, internal 1130 tuner vs rev3 Moto 6412 HDDVD tuner via component, Comcast digital cable as input -- two tuners enter, two tuners leave, although one will be much less popular afterwards :D....

If you have a Rev 3 box, set the 4:3 output to force 480p.(with DVR power off, press menu on DVR remote) I did not expect this at all, but on the Rev3 box, the one with the HDMI port, using force 480p output yeilds a picture very comparable to using the 1130's internal tuner. There are some differences that you will have to decide against (as to whether you want to go cablecard or not..) but in my opinion this config deserves a look. I have decided not to go with a cablecard after testing this setup. I dont think the cablecard would benefit me much picturewise, and with this config, I can still hook up OTA if I want.

If you have a Rev 2 6412, with the DVI port, you should use force 480i for 4:3 content in the setup menu. (with DVR power off, press menu on DVR remote). I couldnt tell a diffence between the internal 1130 tuner (which is what a cablecard would use) and the DVR tuner.

After my experience with the component dvd player in 480i vs 480p, I was under the impression the 1130's 480p processing wasnt all that great, actually quite the contrary, you just have to give it the right input... it may not like that dvd player, but it sure likes the Rev3 6412

pstrisik

10-18-05, 11:09 PM

If you have a Rev 3 box.........
MB, I'm curious about this box. I have Rev 2. I see the Rev 3 has an RF output. Do you know what the box outputs through that? I'm hoping it only decodes and passes the decoded signal to the TV's tuner for processing. What do you think?

rub_123

10-19-05, 01:02 AM

Skery, that was me who reported the buzz sound during the scenes when there's a lot of white. I noticed this buzz the first night I had the set. It seems to have diminished quite a bit since. It's possible that the noise is coming from the Media Receiver. Have you checked whether it's the receiver or the panel? I suspect mine came from the receiver because I've since placed my receiver behind cabinet doors and haven't heard buzzing sound since.

MaliciousBraham

10-19-05, 10:59 AM

MB, I'm curious about this box. I have Rev 2. I see the Rev 3 has an RF output. Do you know what the box outputs through that? I'm hoping it only decodes and passes the decoded signal to the TV's tuner for processing. What do you think?

I have not used the RF output on the Rev 3 yet. Dont know first hand what it does, but I suspect it is just a pass-through and does not do any decoding at all. I know there is an option in the menu to turn on/off the RF pass-through, so I will check it out tonight, easy enough.

As far as Rev2 vs Rev3, the Rev2 is still better in my book, SD picture quality wise. If you are used to having the Rev2 I see no need to upgrade to the Rev3 if you are not having any channel problems like I was. My Rev2 most likely had problems though, since it could pull some channels and not others.

edit: This is based on component output of course... I have HDMI cables on the way which will let me see if digital connection is any better.
edit2: after doing some research, I expect the RF output to mirror whatever is being shown on the digital ouputs, just in SD.

dial911

10-19-05, 11:33 AM

For those who have the 1130, could you tell me where the Digital Conection Cable plugs in to the monitor. When facing the BACK of the tv is it in on the rigt side, left side, middle? I am going through a remodel and need to run a chase. I'd like to avoid buying the 10M cable so I want to make the most of where the chase enters/exits the wall so the 3M will fit.

Thanks!!!!!

PugFan

10-19-05, 12:04 PM

The connections are in the middle of the back of the monitor...

dagsmcd

10-19-05, 02:24 PM

Can any 1130HD owners out there tell me if it comes with an SR+ cable for connection to a pio receiver? Thanks.

NemoZorro

10-19-05, 02:30 PM

Can any 1130HD owners out there tell me if it comes with an SR+ cable for connection to a pio receiver? Thanks.

Good question. I've been wondering about the SR+ connections. Is it worth it? We will eventually have the 79Avi, 74Txi, and the 1130. Don't the remotes already share alot of the same functions, or am I missing the point of SR+?

Thanks.

pstrisik

10-19-05, 02:38 PM

I have not used the RF output on the Rev 3 yet. Dont know first hand what it does, but I suspect it is just a pass-through and does not do any decoding at all. I know there is an option in the menu to turn on/off the RF pass-through, so I will check it out tonight, easy enough.

As far as Rev2 vs Rev3, the Rev2 is still better in my book, SD picture quality wise. If you are used to having the Rev2 I see no need to upgrade to the Rev3 if you are not having any channel problems like I was. My Rev2 most likely had problems though, since it could pull some channels and not others.

edit: This is based on component output of course... I have HDMI cables on the way which will let me see if digital connection is any better.
edit2: after doing some research, I expect the RF output to mirror whatever is being shown on the digital ouputs, just in SD.
Thanks. I would be interested in your opinion regarding Rev II vs. III once you have an HDMI cable. Rev III is of interest to me since it has the RF output and would allow good use of the TV's closed caption function. Pio doesn't display CC with component or HDMI input. I would run both HDMI and RF so I could switch to RF when CC is needed. As it stands, I will need to do the same thing with HDMI and composite with Rev II.

Actually, another point you could help with now that I think about it... Rev II does not allow turning the STB Closed Captioning on/off with the remote. You have to go into the setup menu manually. Do you see any evidence with Rev III that CC is any easier to access on the fly?

Thanks..........

T2starr

10-19-05, 03:39 PM

dagsmcd

10-19-05, 04:39 PM

Good question. I've been wondering about the SR+ connections. Is it worth it? We will eventually have the 79Avi, 74Txi, and the 1130. Don't the remotes already share alot of the same functions, or am I missing the point of SR+?

Thanks.
My plan is similar: link up an 1130HD with a 74txi and 59avi. The plasma media recevier, receiver and dvd player will be in a nearby closet while the display is wall mounted. My understanding of the SR+ system is that it will allow control of all of the components through the display IR sensor on the wall -- thus obviating the need for IR repeaters or an RF remote control. The link up also allows various info to be displayed on the screen (volume, surround modes, etc)

I know you can get the SR+ cables from Pioneer but it is unclear if one comes with the plasma -- the SR+ does not appear to be included with the pio receiver or dvd player (although perhaps the 79avi will include one).

pstrisik

10-19-05, 05:09 PM

I need a longer media receiver cable since I will have the receiver on the opposite side of a fireplace than my 5060. The pioneer H03CL runs between $400-$600 depending on the internet site. I know key digital produces a similar cable, but the price is the same. Does anyone know another cable arrangement (between the receiver and the plasma) that might work and be cheaper.

Thanks
There was a report of an aftermarket cable for the Pio sold by TVA for less than $300 if I recall correctly.
http://www.tvauthority.com/Miscellaneous-Plasma-Accessories/Key-Digital-KD-DVID30MDR20.asp?dept=89&prod=3506

NemoZorro

10-19-05, 05:33 PM

My plan is similar: link up an 1130HD with a 74txi and 59avi. The plasma media recevier, receiver and dvd player will be in a nearby closet while the display is wall mounted. My understanding of the SR+ system is that it will allow control of all of the components through the display IR sensor on the wall -- thus obviating the need for IR repeaters or an RF remote control. The link up also allows various info to be displayed on the screen (volume, surround modes, etc)

I know you can get the SR+ cables from Pioneer but it is unclear if one comes with the plasma -- the SR+ does not appear to be included with the pio receiver or dvd player (although perhaps the 79avi will include one).

OK, gotcha - I was misunderstanding it. That is a useful tool that makes sense now. I already have the 74 and the cable wasn't included.

Thanks for your help.

rub_123

10-19-05, 05:37 PM

Dagsmcd, only cable that came with the 1130 Pio is the standard 3M cable that connects MR to panel. As for remote control capabilities, the 1130 remote is RF already. Not sure if you can control the receiver and dvd player with same remote.

MaliciousBraham

10-19-05, 08:00 PM

Thanks. I would be interested in your opinion regarding Rev II vs. III once you have an HDMI cable. Rev III is of interest to me since it has the RF output and would allow good use of the TV's closed caption function. Pio doesn't display CC with component or HDMI input. I would run both HDMI and RF so I could switch to RF when CC is needed. As it stands, I will need to do the same thing with HDMI and composite with Rev II.

Actually, another point you could help with now that I think about it... Rev II does not allow turning the STB Closed Captioning on/off with the remote. You have to go into the setup menu manually. Do you see any evidence with Rev III that CC is any easier to access on the fly?

Thanks..........

HDMI cables arrived this afternoon. I dont still have the Rev2 box (comcast took it) but I can say how component vs HDMI affects things on the Rev3 box.

There were absolutely no problems with HDMI setup and the Rev3 box. The only hand change is to go into the 1130 menu and turn on HDMI. Otherwise it is plug an play. The "menu" button for the 6412 works over HDMI also. I left the component setup connected and had no problems at all changing from input 1 (HDMI) to input 3 (component) with the 1130 remote for direct comparisons.

Quality: There is a noticeable sharpness improvement across ALL material. It doesnt make a huge difference in SD, but I immediately noticed it in HD. There is much finer detail in the picture, especially along edges.

Edit: one bad thing about HDMI and the 6412, changing from SD to HD channels and vice-versa causes some mode change delays in the HDMI. While going HDtoSD the 1130 momentarily displays static (1-2 seconds) and then the SD picture appears. When going SDtoHD, the HD picture appears offset and improperly scaled (1-2seconds) and then the tv goes into HD mode. This is most definitely a communication delay in re-synching the HDMI info. I like the quality improvements in HD enough to continue using HDMI though. Its really an obvious improvement with the 6412.

No better way of doing ClosedCaptioning in the Rev3 box, sorry. I am trying the RF output now, will edit with the findings.

Edit: Rf output works, independent of the "passthrough" setting in the 6412 menus. No matter what it is set to, the signal is being passed through on analog station 3. HD is scaled to letterbox SD on the RF. CC works on the 1130 when using the RF passthrough for both SD and HD. Picture quality is softer than using cablebox's HDMI, but not much softer.

pstrisik

10-19-05, 11:35 PM

Quality: There is a noticeable sharpness improvement across ALL material. It doesnt make a huge difference in SD, but I immediately noticed it in HD. There is much finer detail in the picture, especially along edges.This doesn't sound like good news for Rev III and SD. If SD was better on II with component than III and III didn't improve noticably with HDMI, sounds like II is still better with SD. :(

Edit: one bad thing about HDMI and the 6412, changing from SD to HD channels and vice-versa causes some mode change delays in the HDMI. While going HDtoSD the 1130 momentarily displays static (1-2 seconds) and then the SD picture appears. When going SDtoHD, the HD picture appears offset and improperly scaled (1-2seconds) and then the tv goes into HD mode. This is most definitely a communication delay in re-synching the HDMI info. I like the quality improvements in HD enough to continue using HDMI though. Its really an obvious improvement with the 6412.
I get the same static and delay going from SD to HD with my 6412 Rev II using DVI to HDMI cable.

No better way of doing ClosedCaptioning in the Rev3 box, sorry. I am trying the RF output now, will edit with the findings.

Edit: Rf output works, independent of the "passthrough" setting in the 6412 menus. No matter what it is set to, the signal is being passed through on analog station 3. HD is scaled to letterbox SD on the RF. CC works on the 1130 when using the RF passthrough for both SD and HD. Picture quality is softer than using cablebox's HDMI, but not much softer.Too bad they don't think people who need CC are very important. :mad: I think I need to write Motorola a letter. This would be a simple thing to implement.

Thanks for testing the RF. It sounds viable for my CC purposes. It sounds like the RF is definitely better than composite. I have to check to see what happens to HD over composite... letterbox or not... and figure all the pros and cons. Overall, nothing but tradeoffs! Can never have it all!

Oh, and sorry to veer off topic for a bit here everyone. :o

skery

10-20-05, 12:32 AM

MaliciousBraham

10-20-05, 09:21 AM

I didnt own the previous generation Pio's, so here is a tip for anyone that gets stumped on having one HDMI work and the other doesnt.

The setting to turn on HDMI isnt global, it is per-input. So if you turn HDMI on for Input 1, the Input 3 HDMI port will not work until you switch to input 3 and go into the menu and turn on HDMI again.

I picked up a (relatively) cheap LG LDA-511 locally and have it hooked up through HDMI on Input 3. This will be my holdover player until I see some solid reviews of the new Pioneer Elite dvd units. Watched a large section of Finding Nemo last night and no banding whatsoever that I could see.... I still need to sit down and go throught some settings to find what works best though.

MaliciousBraham

10-20-05, 03:43 PM

HQV Benchmark DVD arrived today!

Xrayted

10-20-05, 03:44 PM

I need a longer media receiver cable since I will have the receiver on the opposite side of a fireplace than my 5060. The pioneer H03CL runs between $400-$600 depending on the internet site. I know key digital produces a similar cable, but the price is the same. Does anyone know another cable arrangement (between the receiver and the plasma) that might work and be cheaper.

Thanks

Search for a company called cable-comm technologies, and go to "Place your order on-line"

This is the company that actually makes the cables for Pioneer. I ordered the 25' cables and they work great!

By the way, are you a fellow radiologist T2starr?

pstrisik

10-20-05, 04:17 PM

Magnolia called today. My 1130 is finally in!! :D

Delivery Saturday morning.

bklyndoug

10-20-05, 04:21 PM

pstrisik

10-20-05, 04:33 PM

install question for you folks...

i am having my 5060 wall mounted tomorrow by an installer. the installer is offering to sell me a universal remote with an RF transmitter that would allow me to operate all my components without having to open the doors to my AV cabinet. the problem is the whole thing will cost around $1K (for remote, programming and RF transmitter).

the most important thing to me is to be able to operate my components without having the cabinet doors open (toddler in house who loves buttons). is it possible to simply buy an RF transmitter that hooks up to my components and works with my EXISTING remotes?

thanks for any and all help.
Yes. I don't know the specific brands. I used to have something called "Leapfrog" that transmitted RF between my existing remote and an RF receiver that had an LCD emitter on it. The receiver was placed where it could point at the components. Remote worked anywhere in the house!

I'm sure you can get the same thing with emitters that mount onto each component as well.

Look at the new Harmony universal remote. It's not on the website yet. I think it's an 885 or 890. It's based on the 880 (which I have) with added RF capability. I like the 880 a lot. The one with RF is about $350. Ain't cheap, but a lot cheaper than the quote you got.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,crid=2084,contentid=9933

eelton

10-20-05, 05:36 PM

Magnolia called today. My 1130 is finally in!! :D

Delivery Saturday morning.It's about time!

So why wait until Saturday for delivery? Couldn't you twist some arms to get it today?

NemoZorro

10-20-05, 05:57 PM

Magnolia called today. My 1130 is finally in!! :D

Delivery Saturday morning.

Congrats - I'm still waiting on my retailer. :jealous: smilie! I'm excited for you!

T2starr

10-20-05, 06:12 PM

Search for a company called cable-comm technologies, and go to "Place your order on-line"

This is the company that actually makes the cables for Pioneer. I ordered the 25' cables and they work great!

By the way, are you a fellow radiologist T2starr?

Yes, I am a fellow mole!

pstrisik

10-20-05, 08:17 PM

It's about time!

So why wait until Saturday for delivery? Couldn't you twist some arms to get it today?
I didn't try to twist. I could have picked it up today, but the inner 50" plasma box is a tad too big for my escape. I didn't want to borrow my friend's minivan again or rent anything. They were booked up for Friday, so Sat 11 is the earliest.

That's pretty good actually. We are moving my wife's desk and associated stuff out of the family room and into the sun room Fri night. That will leave about Sat noon to Sat midnight to play! ;)

JohnnyRose

10-20-05, 09:39 PM

pstrisik,

Congrats. I know youve been waiting a long time.

Since I received mine, I havent been home much. In fact I havent had a complete hour of messing with it yet.

Enjoy.

Iamjcl

10-20-05, 10:10 PM

Well I picked up a PRO-1130 today - I had been waiting on the 5060, but my dealer got in the 1130's first (and no 5060s) , and told me "your plasma is here", and didn't remember I wanted the 5060. So, I had already removed the 5050 I was borrowing from the wall, and gone in to pick up the 5060. The Elite only cost me $300 more, so I think thats pretty much a no-brainer...

Anyway, some quick observations, based on comparisons to the pioneer 5050 and my Panasonic 37px50.

First, the media box is a little improved from the xx50 series. I quickly ran my HQV test dvd through the old box / display, and It didn't do so well (I always said SD looked a bit better on the Panny - it did better on the disc).
The new box passes the first test (color bars / resolution pattern - no twittering this time!), the old one did not. Does slightly better on the jaggie tests also, but still fails the horizontally scrolling text if "pure cinema" is on or advanced (combs badly - Panny sails right through it). However, if you turn "pure cinema" OFF, it passes it - the old box, IIRC, did not no matter what. I used the 5050 with pure cinema OFF anyway, as it did better with motion / judder to my eye. I left PC "Standard" on the DVD input, as movies (24 fps) normally go in there. I think I'll leave it "standard" on all inputs now, because the only time I've seen it fall down is on the horizontal scrolling text - it can deal with the vertical scrolls (so did the old one).

So, in a nut shell, the de-interlacing / scaling in the new media box is somewhat better than the old. Not perfect, perhaps, but I think it would be fairly rare to see issues with this one. I'd say at this point its slightly superior to Panasonics' solution, and before it was slightly inferior.

Panel itself: does not seem as black as the Panasonic, but its good enough, IMO. Unless its a black test pattern, or no signal, you wouldn't tell. Black in the images is excellent.

Lots of control over DRE - better than the on / off on the 5050, and the 5060 has no way to turn it OFF, AFAIK.

I will say that DRE seems to do something different on this PDP vs the 5050 - its better now. Before it sent the black level wacky. Now, absolute black is little changed, but the dynamic range "focus" is shifted up or down the grayscale depending on APL. It works pretty well so far - more viewing may show issues, but I think its effective if you don't look too hard.

Seems significantly brighter than the 5050 I was using (I would guess it had maybe 1000 hrs on it, though). Didn't check via svc. menu.

LEDs for "power" on the panel and media box are "cool blue" when on, instead of green.

So far, I don't really see any other changes from xx50 series.

I like it - it looks good. Much sleeker looking with the narrow bezel.

Below is a photo of it on the wall with some HD from the Discovery Channel.

plasmalvr

10-20-05, 10:42 PM

plasmalvr

10-20-05, 10:44 PM

Iamjcl

10-20-05, 10:50 PM

Three things:

1) The dealer is a good friend of mine

2) Forum doesn't allow price posts

3) It was a good deal

- I do think you might be able to get into one for, say, maybe a couple of middle of the road up-scaling DVD players LESS than BB is selling the 5060 for, though ?

Good luck - its tough to just find one ATM.

- Chris

pstrisik

10-20-05, 11:18 PM

Trblmkr

10-21-05, 07:45 AM

I'm looking to upgrade my DVD Player to go with my Pio 5060. Right now I'm using a component connection and some of my DVD's aren't looking as clean and crisp as I'd like. I"m currently using a Sony DVP NS725P with progressive scan on and putting out the best picture it can.

Is the Panny S77/97 still the best option for this TV ? Any other suggestions on DVD Players or TV Set up would be most appreciated.

Iamjcl

10-21-05, 09:34 AM

Peter, I do like that rug of yours - And I do think you will like that 1130 when you get your hands on it.

- Chris

msolei00

10-21-05, 09:42 AM

the problem is the whole thing will cost around $1K (for remote, programming and RF transmitter).

1k your getting hosed... i would get another opinion. go to www.cedia.net and find another installer in your area.

Hattrick

10-21-05, 10:04 AM

Ange Rizzo

10-21-05, 10:17 AM

install question for you folks...

i am having my 5060 wall mounted tomorrow by an installer. the installer is offering to sell me a universal remote with an RF transmitter that would allow me to operate all my components without having to open the doors to my AV cabinet. the problem is the whole thing will cost around $1K (for remote, programming and RF transmitter).

the most important thing to me is to be able to operate my components without having the cabinet doors open (toddler in house who loves buttons). is it possible to simply buy an RF transmitter that hooks up to my components and works with my EXISTING remotes?

thanks for any and all help.

It sounds like you've been quoted on URC's MX-3000.

http://www.universalremote.com/products/index.php?item=mx3000

This is the same one I'm getting after it was suggested to me by my CEDIA certified installer. The price you were quoted is what this thing sells for which is pricier than typical remotes such as Logitech. URC also has lower end models which compete directly with the Logitech models if you're still uncomfortable with spending that kind of coin. I'm sticking with the MX-3000 because I love the console look.

Ange.

Jake NYC

10-21-05, 10:19 AM

Had the comcast DVR Box out last night to put in my rack and noticed no HDMI connections (there was DVI). Does the MR on with the 4360 have a DVI connection? If not are there different versions of this Box out there? and does any of them have HDMI? I am renovating the family room and am planning the switch to HD with a new 4360. My current DVR is the version that is ready for HD. :confused: :confused:

You have two options: You can get a DVI-HDMI cable, and use the DVI connection on the cable box with the HDMI conection on the MR (there is no DVI on the MR). Or, just use component video connections. Many people have found the component connection is as good or better than the DVI/HDMI connections on their cable boxes.

tiger3p

10-21-05, 10:22 AM

Anyone else getting a burn-in like effect on their PIO 4214? Also, do the burn-in typically go away if you run the screen saver mode?

I usually select Orbiter to MID and select FULL WHITE after watching a movie or an hour of tv.. is this proper??

Zouyun

10-21-05, 10:56 AM

I have a fundamental question that I'd like to hear your opinions on.

If the Elite Media Receiver for an 1130HD is jam-packed with connection options, and has one cable running up to the 1130HD, why would you use a high-end receiver like the 74 TVXi, which also is jam-packed with connection options, allowing you to go directly to a display via HDMI?

Is it best to use both Elite MR and the Elite AVR, or would it be just as good to go with the Elite MR and a limited AVR?

Just wondering what your thoughts were on this subject...

rmf

10-21-05, 11:21 AM

The Comcast Motorola box with DVR (?6812) comes in two flavors..DVI-D and HDMI, but not on the same box. You can get either, at least in Boston.

pstrisik

10-21-05, 12:05 PM

The Comcast Motorola box with DVR (?6812) comes in two flavors..DVI-D and HDMI, but not on the same box. You can get either, at least in Boston.
Its the 6412. Phase II has DVI. Phase III has HDMI and added RF out. Most reports here have indicated that the Phase II box does SD a bit better than the more recent Phase III box.

I have the Phase II box and use a DVI to HDMI adaptor with an HDMI cable.

MaliciousBraham

10-21-05, 02:38 PM

Anyway, some quick observations, based on comparisons to the pioneer 5050 and my Panasonic 37px50.

First, the media box is a little improved from the xx50 series. I quickly ran my HQV test dvd through the old box / display, and It didn't do so well (I always said SD looked a bit better on the Panny - it did better on the disc).
The new box passes the first test (color bars / resolution pattern - no twittering this time!), the old one did not. Does slightly better on the jaggie tests also, but still fails the horizontally scrolling text if "pure cinema" is on or advanced (combs badly - Panny sails right through it). However, if you turn "pure cinema" OFF, it passes it - the old box, IIRC, did not no matter what. I used the 5050 with pure cinema OFF anyway, as it did better with motion / judder to my eye. I left PC "Standard" on the DVD input, as movies (24 fps) normally go in there. I think I'll leave it "standard" on all inputs now, because the only time I've seen it fall down is on the horizontal scrolling text - it can deal with the vertical scrolls (so did the old one).

So, in a nut shell, the de-interlacing / scaling in the new media box is somewhat better than the old. Not perfect, perhaps, but I think it would be fairly rare to see issues with this one. I'd say at this point its slightly superior to Panasonics' solution, and before it was slightly inferior.
.....
Seems significantly brighter than the 5050 I was using (I would guess it had maybe 1000 hrs on it, though). Didn't check via svc. menu.

LEDs for "power" on the panel and media box are "cool blue" when on, instead of green.

So far, I don't really see any other changes from xx50 series.

I like it - it looks good. Much sleeker looking with the narrow bezel.

Below is a photo of it on the wall with some HD from the Discovery Channel.

Nice Setup!! :cool:

I had the same results running the HQV disc. I have the DVD input set standard purecinema, but the Cablebox input I left purecinema off. I have got my HDTV colors set exactly where I want, but so far I have not been able to find a setting for DVD that I am totally happy with... oh well, that just means I get to play more ;)

angedc

10-21-05, 05:35 PM

A question: to take advantage of the separate "day" and "night" settings, do you have to get the set ISF certified?

D-Nice

10-21-05, 07:20 PM

A question: to take advantage of the separate "day" and "night" settings, do you have to get the set ISF certified?

ISF'ed...yes

BAD_TCR

10-21-05, 07:21 PM

Good info...

D-Nice

10-21-05, 07:21 PM

Magnolia called today. My 1130 is finally in!! :D

Delivery Saturday morning.

Congrats. I await your review of your plasma.

RKA

10-22-05, 09:32 AM

install question for you folks...

i am having my 5060 wall mounted tomorrow by an installer. the installer is offering to sell me a universal remote with an RF transmitter that would allow me to operate all my components without having to open the doors to my AV cabinet. the problem is the whole thing will cost around $1K (for remote, programming and RF transmitter).

the most important thing to me is to be able to operate my components without having the cabinet doors open (toddler in house who loves buttons). is it possible to simply buy an RF transmitter that hooks up to my components and works with my EXISTING remotes?

thanks for any and all help.

Ultimately, you can get the job done quicker. First, if you already have the remotes you need, a simple IR repeater will get the job done. It has a receiver mounted in plain view, and 1 or more transmitters that go inside the cabinet to "repeat" any signal being received...by the receiver.

If you're in the market for a new universal remote, there are many different options available that offer RF capabilities (which will allow it to work through walls etc.). The most inexpensive would start around $400 or less if you shopped around. So the real question is do you want/need RF capability, and if you do, are you willing to pay $600 for someone else to set it up, or are you willing to try setting it up yourself.

Further discussion on this topic belongs on another forum.

Iamjcl

10-22-05, 11:31 AM

One more bit of information on my new 1130 - It clearly "buzzes", varying with APL. I never noticed the 5050 doing this, but I never listened FOR it, but I wasn't listening FOR it when I noticed on this 1130, either. I just heard it. You can hear it from 10' away, if the picture is bright, and the sound is off, or VERY low (or its a silent portion of the picture). I can't say yet whether its annoying, as I really haven't used it a whole lot.

I doubt its only with my set, but I would be interested in hearing others' comments on the buzz, with contrast at, say, 35-40 on "standard" picture setting, with a white full-field pattern, with silence in the room. Can you hear it easily from 8-10' away ? (Not that "easily" means its loud, but just that its audible).

So far, for break in, I have had the contrast only at about 25-30, so the buzz has been kept to a minimum. It is louder with higher contrast settings, obviously.

- Chris

oliverlim

10-22-05, 12:56 PM

Does anyone know where I can download the manual for either the 930 or 1130 Elite?

Thanks!
Oliver

pstrisik

10-22-05, 01:00 PM

Does anyone know where I can download the manual for either the 930 or 1130 Elite?

Thanks!
Oliver
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/276752963PRO1130HDOperatingInstructions.pdf

Iamjcl

10-22-05, 01:40 PM

fl_dba

10-22-05, 04:13 PM

My 5060 should be here on Wednesday (if Wilma doesn't get in the way) from
TVA (Cambryn was great to work with). I down loaded the manual and noticed
that the media receiver had a connection for a subwoofer on the back panel. Has
anyone ever attached a subwoofer this way? Or does everyone just connect it
to their AV receiver?

oldcband

10-22-05, 04:51 PM

FWIW, I notice the manual states that a "buzzing / humming" sound from the panel is normal. I would expect that the noise I hear is the same on all of them, more or less.

Its not really that noticeable - less than ambient noise most always, even with the sound muted.

Have been watching mostly the 1130 the last few days, but watched some SD on my Panasonic last night, and I still am amazed at the SD quality on that thing - it tops the Pioneer in this capacity, I'm afraid.

- Chris
Hi Chris
Seems like you have tuff luck with your tv's. I've read where you bought this from a dealer friend. Ask your friend you want your pio to be quiet and see what can be done. Now if it turns out to be normal at least you tried and this issue has been solved from posts in the past. Good luck

LamJNS

10-22-05, 08:28 PM

Got my 1130 Delivered today... Finished setting up, testing, adjusting etc. Overall "AmaziN", that is all I have to say.

Comments:

* Bezel is more elegant then my pro-1120, diets are in even for flat screens. LoL
* Black levels in a pitch black room side by side with my XBR CRT, almost the same level, just a tad lighter and visible, wish I still had my pioneer 1120 to compare :( .
* Slightly better performance using SA 8300HD DVR HDMI > over Component. Same for Samsung HD-941. HDMI just brings a very slight improvement to the picture quality.
*Power consumption. I have a PS Audio PowerPlant 500:
Total power draw from the Plasma: (Total draw minus 56W +/- 1W - (35W MDR) = PDP only draw)
Black Screen: 78-82 Watt
White Screen: 324-330 Watt
Dark scene avg -> 10 clips, average 154 Watt (on pause)
Bright scene avg -> 10 clips, average 278 Watt (on pause)
* Dynamic mode sucks IMHO! Like cheap Christmas lights on crack! Way over saturated and unnatural.
* PC mode: syncs very fast sharp text and very accurate in colors, compared to my calibrated 21" CRT just a slight shift into blue 2-3% perhaps. Fixed with Avia DVD.
* Shadow detail is very clean and distinguished, my CRT actually crushed some black detail (don't get me wrong, just a very tiny difference, if you sit less then 1 foot away from the screen you can tell where a brick texture disappears on my CRT, but still present on the 1130 in the dark scene in Spider Man 2.) My CRT is properly calibrated, just in case you ask.
* At 10 feet, noise isn't an issue at all unless SD is on, then I have to bump DNR/MNR up to High.
* The supposed "natural resize" mode isn't that great, looked different on the pro-1120. I actually always liked the Panasonics & Philips resize modes a little bit more.
* Remote as my previous remote from pro-1120 is well laid out and easy to navigate. Pretty much same thing, just extra stuff for TVGuide.
* TVGuide is useless, have cable box, DVR. But some probably will find it very useful.
* Counter Strike Source is ^*#@&+%$ amazing on screen as before, but now it has more depth and dark area fidelity.
* Panel actually runs cooler then my 1120 did, not by much.
* No noise at all! Not from the MR or the Panel. I didn’t have it on my 1120 or the new 1130, I guess got lucky twice. I did hear some slight noise at my friend’s house with his 930. However neither he nor I can hear anything from my panel. :)

I called my friend from Connecticut who will in about a week come in and ISF calibrate my display. One interesting thing he told me... Seems that Gamma level 1 has a lower gradation of gray levels, but better black level, Gamma 2 is 5% decrease in black levels, but a whopping 15% increase in the gradation steps for gray scale (hence better overall definition). ?? I’m puzzled how that can be, but he said that light output increases exponentially when discharge strength is even slightly increased maybe I didn't understand him right.
In any case, pics will be up in a couple of minutes. Tomorrow, when I get some decent daylight into my living room will take pics of the setup.

LamJNS

10-22-05, 08:43 PM

PICS

Discovery HD (http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=416956&img=SC007.jpg)
Total Power Usage for HD scene (http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=416957&img=SC008.jpg)
Incredibles - Island HD (PC-Link) (http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=416954&img=SC005.jpg)
Incredibles - Lava HD (PC-Link) (http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=416953&img=SC004.jpg)
Law & Order HD - DRE OFF (http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=416952&img=NO-DRE.jpg)
Law & Order HD - DRE HIGH (http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=416950&img=HIGH-DRE.jpg)
Stretch of SD (http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=416958&img=Stretch.jpg)

Yoda1

10-22-05, 09:19 PM

jacksonian

10-22-05, 09:27 PM

I'm looking for a good wall mount for the 4360. Anyone have any suggestions. I used a Sanus last time for my 5050, but it didn't have any adjustment for being off level. I think the Peerless do have such an adjustment.

LamJNS

10-22-05, 09:54 PM

Have you seen this mount:

https://www.sanus.com/cgi-bin/web_store.cgi?page=products/wallmount/visionmount/VMSA.html&cart_id=797951_21177

D-Nice

10-22-05, 10:51 PM

Playmaker

10-22-05, 11:21 PM

Has any tried to go into the service menu and check their hours of usage?

I have a Pioneer 5060 and I went to the service menu earlier today to see how many hours the set has on it, and how far I am in the break in period. It displayed 280 hours, and I was very surprised. There is no way I am any where close to that. Maybe half if I am lucky. I have had the TV set up for about 280 hours. Literally.

I decided to run an experiment. At 3:00 pm today I checked the hour count in the display menu, and then left the TV on with the sleep timer set for 2 hours. I returned home about 7 hours later at 10:00pm, and the timer in the service menu elapsed 7 hours, not 2 hours. Therefore, the hour count in the service menu in my Pioneer is displaying the hours the set is plugged in, and not the hours the set has been used.

Is there any way to see the hours the set has been turned on, and not the amount of time the set is plugged into the wall in stand by mode?

D-Nice

10-22-05, 11:46 PM

D-Nice

10-22-05, 11:54 PM

Guys, if you want to see you actual panel hours you will have to look in the "Panel Factory" sub menu. It is NOT in the regular info menu......the 6Gs' SM is very different compared to the 50 series.

oldcband

10-23-05, 08:56 AM

Oh....oldcband....I haven't forgotten about your comparision of the Sharp 37G4U vs the Pioneer 930. I did setup the LCD again in the bedroom (sold my 4340 Friday). I'll also try to post my findings tomorrow for you, but....so far, you will not like what I have to say about the Sharp (again...so far).
Good morning D-Nice
I have to come clean here and really I just want to see them sitting side by side and its ok if you don't want too. When I was at the B&M stores this week I know if I was going to choose the best tv for PQ I'd choose plasma. But I plasma damaged for life, like getting bucked off a horse if you don't get right back on you never will. I'm sure that 99.9 percent have positive experiences but I was one of the unfortunate ones. I will never own one again and it came down to process of elimination for me. I will hold onto the Sharp for 5 years or so then hope that new technology comes up with a reliable alternative to all these technologies. For now I love the Sharp but I can see room for improvement. Have a great day.

eelton

10-23-05, 09:10 AM

Pstrisik:

The silence is deafening! How's your 1130 doing? Where's your review? Are you too glued to the thing to get to your computer?

I hope you're enjoying it (as I'm sure you are).

Iamjcl

10-23-05, 09:36 AM

Oldcband,

I think I've had pretty good luck with TVs and projetors - I tend to be picky, and I point out deficiencies (however slight) when I see / hear them, so that other readers here can be informed. Panel buzz is a known issue, as you also noted. I checked another 6G panel in-store and its exactly the same. As I suspected, its a characteristic, not a defect - It's no big deal, but its there to a varying degree never-the-less.

IMO, No dead pixels is GOOD luck. Some panel buzz is status-quo.

- Chris

Iamjcl

10-23-05, 09:39 AM

D-Nice,

What is the button sequence to access the service menu on the 6G units ?

Any tips on navigating it ?

Thanks,

- Chris

Tallcane

10-23-05, 10:02 AM

nater

10-23-05, 10:15 AM

I have had my 1130 up and running for two days now. Just completed an on wall install that looks awesome. I will need to figure out how to post pics because it just looks awesome up on the wall.

I am no videophile so I wont go into any details like some others, but I am so impressed with this plasma. I simply have no negatives. SD is just fine, does not bother me at all. HD is awesome!

Bottom line, I could not be happier. Achieved everything I wanted, it looks great on the wall when turned off and looks even better when turned on.

If it you like it better OFF than on I can make you a real deal on a unit with zero power consumption and a much lower cost :p

but I do get the point of your post at, my age I am happy to see the TV and find my glasses to use the remote :cool:

nater

LamJNS

10-23-05, 10:33 AM

You were probably looking at the MR hours and not the actual panel hours.

On another note, I've found that all aspect ratios except cinema are available for HD channels on my 930 (my 5050 will only allow full or wide). Can anyone else confirm this with their plasma?

Yep I was surprized to find this out as well. Even though I won't use half of them its nice to know that they gave more control over the aspect ratios in HD in the new models.

Playmaker

10-23-05, 10:36 AM

You were probably looking at the MR hours and not the actual panel hours.

You were right. I was originally looking at the "main unit" hours, which is probably the media receiver. Once in the Service Menu, I pressed the mute button to navigate to the "Panel Facts" screen, then scrolled down to the "Panel hours". This number was a true representation of the hours on the screen. I have 128 hours, and now have bumped the contrast up to 30, which is 50%. I probably won't go much higher until I get closer to 1000 hours.

Here is how to get to the SM...

Start with the plasma turned OFF.
Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold).
Wait 3 seconds.
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER (on the remote).
If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed.

Press DOWN to page through each menu (for instance, to see the multiple pages that make up the INFORMATION section). Press MUTE to jump through the different menus.

LamJNS

10-23-05, 10:40 AM

D-Nice you run your cablebox with HDMI or component?
The stretch modes actually fit better with HDMI with auto stretch turned on for 4:3 material.
Through component, auto stretch doesn't work, its dissabled. Just the regular wide mode works.

D-Nice

10-23-05, 11:29 AM

Good morning D-Nice
I have to come clean here and really I just want to see them sitting side by side and its ok if you don't want too. When I was at the B&M stores this week I know if I was going to choose the best tv for PQ I'd choose plasma. But I plasma damaged for life, like getting bucked off a horse if you don't get right back on you never will. I'm sure that 99.9 percent have positive experiences but I was one of the unfortunate ones. I will never own one again and it came down to process of elimination for me. I will hold onto the Sharp for 5 years or so then hope that new technology comes up with a reliable alternative to all these technologies. For now I love the Sharp but I can see room for improvement. Have a great day.

Hmmmm, you you really didn't believe I had one. I'll see if I can get you a picture of the two side by side today.....but, both may not be on (don't want to mess with the wires again)

D-Nice

10-23-05, 11:31 AM

D-Nice,

What is the button sequence to access the service menu on the 6G units ?

Any tips on navigating it ?

Thanks,

- Chris

From Playmaker's post....

Start with the plasma turned OFF.
Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold).
Wait 3 seconds.
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER (on the remote).
If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed.

Press DOWN to page through each menu (for instance, to see the multiple pages that make up the INFORMATION section). Press MUTE to jump through the different menus.

I'm still looking around in that menu...playing with test patterns and stuff. I must say though, I really don't like how they have rearranged the SM.

D-Nice

10-23-05, 11:32 AM

oldcband

10-23-05, 11:40 AM

Hmmmm, you you really didn't believe I had one. I'll see if I can get you a picture of the two side by side today.....but, both may not be on (don't want to mess with the wires again)
Just haven a little fun. If you can't have a few laughs whats liven for. Just enjoy your day and no lets not see any pics that would ruin it for me.

D-Nice

10-23-05, 11:46 AM

Just haven a little fun. If you can't have a few laughs whats liven for. Just enjoy your day and no lets not see any pics that would ruin it for me.

:)

I'll post some later today just to give you some nightmares :D

rover2002

10-23-05, 12:24 PM

Quick Question for all you pio owners.
Does the 436 normal and elite have the same PQ lvl and different imputs or vice verse?

Thx Will.

LamJNS

10-23-05, 01:15 PM

Elite can be better fine tuned to squeeze out every possible improvement in PQ. Out of the box they pretty much look the same. Except for the stand, bezel for the screen and MR.

Technics

10-23-05, 01:32 PM

Are the fan(s) supposed to run always in the media receiver?? It looks like they do for my 930 even in Standby!!

Technics

10-23-05, 01:43 PM

Looks like in order to get rid off the little buzz on my 930 I just have to use Save1 or Save2 from the Energy Save Menu while the image brightness changes slightly!! Can anybody else try this and confirm?? I think that's why some people have the buzz and some don't!!

eelton

10-23-05, 03:03 PM

Are the fan(s) supposed to run always in the media receiver?? It looks like they do for my 930 even in Standby!!Yes, they're intended to run all the time, although I don't understand why.

pstrisik

10-23-05, 03:09 PM

Pstrisik:

The silence is deafening! How's your 1130 doing? Where's your review? Are you too glued to the thing to get to your computer?

I hope you're enjoying it (as I'm sure you are).
:D

You are correct. Between trying to get all my usual stuff done, taking delivery, playing a bit, reprogramming my remote, playing some more, then begrudgingly having some dinner, then watching a DVD, then playing some more, then going to bed, I haven't made time to post, <exhale>.

So here's a bit of rambling first impression....

It's a mixed bag.

On the plus side:

- Everything works as expected, no pixel problems, perfect "piano black" finish on bezel, stand, and MR. Feels like a Pioneer in this regard.

- Media Receiver fan is quieter than the 4350 I briefly had. No detectable screen buzz.

- Colors are beautiful.

- Clear improvement in blacks. Definitely gets into the "inky" territory for me, subjectively, without doing any side-by-side comparison. I would call the difference significant. One thing I didn't like with the 4350 and 4304, since it highlighted the problem, was the gray background during movie credits. The 1130 looks black while those credits roll.

- I'm not sure I'm seeing more shadow detail. If it is there, I think I would have to find it with a side-by-side.

- Having all the control over settings is great!

- Pleasant surprise: Stretch modes in HD now include Full, Wide, Zoom, and 4:3!

On the minus side:

- Movement artifacts are definitely there. I suspect that they haven't improved but moving from a 43 to a 50" has made them more noticible. I have more tweaking to do before making final judgement. If I can't get it better or have my brain compensate perceptually, this may be bothersome. Suggestions welcome.

- I think also related to the size increase is less satisfaction with SD cable than on the 43". However, I moved from component to HDMI input for cable with the display change. I need to put component back to make the comparison before judging.

- Same thing with HD in terms of noise. I rarely noticed noise at all on HD channels with the 4304 or 4350. Again, I need to switch back to component for a fair comparison, but I'm afraid it may be the increase in screen size. On the other hand, I noticed no noise watching DVD through HDMI. So, we'll see.

Tentative Conclusions:

- Clear improvement in blacks.
- HDMI connection from STB may be giving my trouble.
- 50" may turn out to be too big. :(

More to come, including a pic or two.

Edit: Well, I swapped HDMI cables and tried component for the STB. Component is a tad softer, nothing dramatic. My two concerns are still mosquito noise and movement artifacts (stutter type problem on slow pans). I've tried all sorts of combinations of settings, without much success in improvement. If anyone has suggestions, I'd like to try things I'm not thinking of.