I figured it out.

thanks!

I have been trying to use the optical digital out to send audio to my receiver from the TV (1130), because my cable box (a Moto 6412) seems to send only PCM over its digital optical out when it is connected via HDMI to the TV. But, catch 22, it seems that the digital optical out of the TV doesn't work (the options in the menu are grayed out) when HDMI is enabled! Is this some copy protection thing?

(On a very frustrating side note, aargh, the digital optical out port seems screwed up -- it doesn't click in anymore.)

Why would you want to send a 2.0 digital signal from your MR to your receiver? If your cable box does not have an HDMI 1.1 port, there is no way for it to send a 5.1 signal over the HDMI cable. The optical out really should only be used if you are using a cable card. Otherwise it is much easier to connect the digital port on your cable box to your receiver.

Has anybody with the new 5060 been having problems with the remote control??

When mine comes on (turn it on manually) it comes up to my Cable Guide. I have my cable box connected via component connect to the input 1 on the TV. I literally had to stand there yesterday for 5 min's 2 feet from the MC pressing "1" to try and get it to change over.

Once it did, I went and sat down in my chair and went to adjust the volume... again.. NOTHING.. light on the remote is flashing but the volume is not adjusting.

So I thought it might be crappy batteries. Swapped them out. Sat down tried to adjust the volume again... still didn't work....

I'm going to call TVA this afternoon, but was wondering if this is an isolated problem, something I'm doing, or normal for Pioneers ??

I have not had the same problems you have with my 930. You need to turn off the auto guide feature in the TV guide menu to stop it from coming on at startup.

i am planning to put the media box under the house(eq rack), and control w/ IF.
Would it be better -fast/ easier- to program/set up the Pio5o60 with the media box in the same room and then move it. or doesn't matter. - i have never used this media box... or anyother.
tx
db

It doesn't matter where you put the MR as the remote control sensor is located on the panel.

Why would you want to send a 2.0 digital signal from your MR to your receiver? If your cable box does not have an HDMI 1.1 port, there is no way for it to send a 5.1 signal over the HDMI cable. The optical out really should only be used if you are using a cable card. Otherwise it is much easier to connect the digital port on your cable box to your receiver.

I'm clearly not being very clear in my explanations here. I'll try to do better. :-)

I don't want to send a 2.0 digital signal to my receiver. I want to send a 5.1 signal.

I'm connecting my cable box (motorola 6214) to my TV via HDMI (preferably) or component, for video. I'm connecting the cable box to my receiver via digital optical for audio. The problem is that when I use the HDMI connection to the TV, the cable box stops outputing DD5.1 and only outputs pcm from its digital port.

One possible solution that was suggested to me was to output from the TV back to the receiver to get the DD5.1 feed. As you note and I discovered, this doesn't work, at least for the 1130.

I've posted about this over in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6408930#post6408930) but the focus there is on the cable box. It looks like I have to find the solution there.

Thanks and sorry again about creating all this confusion.

Andy

I'm clearly not being very clear in my explanations here. I'll try to do better. :-)

I don't want to send a 2.0 digital signal to my receiver. I want to send a 5.1 signal.

I'm connecting my cable box (motorola 6214) to my TV via HDMI (preferably) or component, for video. I'm connecting the cable box to my receiver via digital optical for audio. The problem is that when I use the HDMI connection to the TV, the cable box stops outputing DD5.1 and only outputs pcm from its digital port.

One possible solution that was suggested to me was to output from the TV back to the receiver to get the DD5.1 feed. As you note and I discovered, this doesn't work, at least for the 1130.

I've posted about this over in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6408930#post6408930) but the focus there is on the cable box. It looks like I have to find the solution there.

Thanks and sorry again about creating all this confusion.

Andy


Even though his particular problem apparently relates more to his cable box, Andy raises an interesting issue for 1130HD owners. To wit: Does the 1130HD block any audio from the digital optical output when the HDMI input is activated for any reason. In Andy's case, as I understand his posts, he hooked up the cable box to the 1130HD HDMI input and in doing so, the 1130 did not let him select the digital optical audio out (it was, as he says, "greyed out"). If he can force the audio out of his cable box, this should not be a problem.

But how about the following set-up: cable/cablecard into the 1130 (no box); digital out from the 1130 Media Receiver into a separate receiver for sound, and a dvd player hooked into the 1130 HD via HDMI (with the DVD player audio also fed into a separate receiver).

In theory, this should work -- unless the 1130HD somehow permanently disables its digital audio out when any compenent (here, a DVD player) is fed into its HDMI input.

Can anyone report on the above-mentioned configuration. I, like several others, plan on hooking up an 1130 with the pioneer 74txi and 59/79avi, so any input (no pun intended) would be appreciated. Thanks.

It doesn't matter where you put the MR as the remote control sensor is located on the panel.

Wow, one of my two questions answered even before I asked :)

Here's the other - can anyone tell me how wide the cable end for the MR is? Need to know if I can pull thru the 2" PVC that's already in my wall.

TIA,

Dave

Wow, one of my two questions answered even before I asked :)

Here's the other - can anyone tell me how wide the cable end for the MR is? Need to know if I can pull thru the 2" PVC that's already in my wall.

TIA,

Dave

the cable has a dvi connector and an HDMI connector on each end. if both a DVI and HDMI connector will fit in your pipe at the same time (with a little extra space for good measure), you should be ok.

I think my response was much more polite, at least to me. :-)

I didn't mean to offend you, I just wanted to show that while you tried to explain the problem that you even got confused your self.
That's all. ;)

hey...i just got my first two plasmas last week. i went with the pioneer pdh 5060 and 4360. i love them both especially the price i got on them both from an authorized dealer way under the msrp price. but anyway, my question is what cables or accessories will optimize my viewing experience. please forgive my ingnorance since these are my first plasmas im not too sure what to buy and dont feel like getting ripped off by some guy in BB who doesnt acutally have much of a clue. thanks.

hey...i just got my first two plasmas last week. i went with the pioneer pdh 5060 and 4360. i love them both especially the price i got on them both from an authorized dealer way under the msrp price. but anyway, my question is what cables or accessories will optimize my viewing experience. please forgive my ingnorance since these are my first plasmas im not too sure what to buy and dont feel like getting ripped off by some guy in BB who doesnt acutally have much of a clue. thanks.

Congrats on your purchases. You will need to get cables that work with your equipment. If your dvd player and/or cable box has HDMI ports, then go for HDMI cables. Otherwise get component cables.

i got the directtv hd dvr box. the guy at bb told me that for buying the box i got the hdmi cables already? anyone know if thats true or not?

the cable has a dvi connector and an HDMI connector on each end. if both a DVI and HDMI connector will fit in your pipe at the same time (with a little extra space for good measure), you should be ok.

You are mistaken, it's not an HDMI connector. It's a control cable for the MDR. It doesn't have the same connector or pin configuration, but is comparable in size (slightly bigger).

i got the directtv hd dvr box. the guy at bb told me that for buying the box i got the hdmi cables already? anyone know if thats true or not?

I don't really understand what that statement means?
“the guy at bb told me that for buying the box I got the hdmi cables already?”

It went from a statement to a question.

Is it >> You were told you need to have the HDMI cables before you buy the DVR box.
Is it >> You were told you automatically get the cables if you buy the DVR box.
Is it >> You were told that the cables should come included with the DVR box.

Please elaborate.

i got the directtv hd dvr box. the guy at bb told me that for buying the box i got the hdmi cables already? anyone know if thats true or not?The HD-TiVo does come with an HDMI cable. (Unfortunately, it's common for HD-TiVos to have defective HDMI outputs.)

sorry for any confusion...direct tv told me i do not need to buy any hdmi cables b/c they come with the hd dvr box.

i was wondering if i needed anything else to optimize viewing experience or any other tips

sorry for any confusion...direct tv told me i do not need to buy any hdmi cables b/c they come with the hd dvr box.

i was wondering if i needed anything else to optimize viewing experience or any other tips

As eelton noted above the HD DirecTiVo box comes with a wealth of cables, including an HDMI cable. You should be good to go to hook up your HDTiVo to either Pio with the HDMI cable - you don't need to buy any cables.

My 1130 is on order. Can't wait to have my _first_ HD TV.

You are mistaken, it's not an HDMI connector. It's a control cable for the MDR. It doesn't have the same connector or pin configuration, but is comparable in size (slightly bigger).


:eek: I am ashamed. :( :o

Even though his particular problem apparently relates more to his cable box, Andy raises an interesting issue for 1130HD owners. To wit: Does the 1130HD block any audio from the digital optical output when the HDMI input is activated for any reason. In Andy's case, as I understand his posts, he hooked up the cable box to the 1130HD HDMI input and in doing so, the 1130 did not let him select the digital optical audio out (it was, as he says, "greyed out"). If he can force the audio out of his cable box, this should not be a problem.

But how about the following set-up: cable/cablecard into the 1130 (no box); digital out from the 1130 Media Receiver into a separate receiver for sound, and a dvd player hooked into the 1130 HD via HDMI (with the DVD player audio also fed into a separate receiver).

In theory, this should work -- unless the 1130HD somehow permanently disables its digital audio out when any compenent (here, a DVD player) is fed into its HDMI input.

Can anyone report on the above-mentioned configuration. I, like several others, plan on hooking up an 1130 with the pioneer 74txi and 59/79avi, so any input (no pun intended) would be appreciated. Thanks.


OK, newbie question here, so please forgive. I'm planning on the 74/79/1130 setup as well. Why wouldn't you just run the 79 into the 74 via HDMI, then connect the 74 via HDMI to the 1130? Maybe I'm answering my own question, but is it because the PQ will be better running the 79 straight into the 1130? I want the best PQ too, but must have the 5.1 sound.

I must say that this issue is not one that I would have anticipated. However, after visiting http://www.dolby.com/resources/tech_library/index.cfm?TechLibItem=32, I'm thinking that this may be endemic to all HDMI input/outputs and that the PCM signal at 48 khz. supports Dolby 5.1 when connected to a compatible dolby-enabled receiver.

For all those truly technically inclined on this board, I believe that this issue needs to be addressed!

After all, who in their right mind would hook up HDMI without the ability to obtain a true Dolby surround sigal?


LIY

I just bought 2 Monster HDMI cables from Radio Shack last week. MSRP was $99.99. They were on sale for 75% off plus another 50% off that. I will let you do the math so I dont break any rules.

You may want to check out your local RS.

I have one question on my 1130 service menu. I am able to access the SM and I can find one timer which appears to be the MR run time (its very high). How and where do I find the panel run hours.

Thanks

John

JohnnyRose,

Check a few pages back on this thread for your answer.

I must say that this issue is not one that I would have anticipated. However, after visiting http://www.dolby.com/resources/tech_library/index.cfm?TechLibItem=32, I'm thinking that this may be endemic to all HDMI input/outputs and that the PCM signal at 48 khz. supports Dolby 5.1 when connected to a compatible dolby-enabled receiver.

For all those truly technically inclined on this board, I believe that this issue needs to be addressed!

After all, who in their right mind would hook up HDMI without the ability to obtain a true Dolby surround sigal?


LIY

However, as I read the Pio 5060 instruction manual, the "NOTE" on p. 70 states "When signals are input from the HDMI terminals, no digital
or analog signals are output from the DIGITAL OUT terminal."

I find this very strange indeed and wonder just how one outputs Dolby Digital (5.1) to external receivers, etc. For me, this would make an HDMI hook-up next to useless. I feel as though I must be missing something here. :(

Any comments from those who really know, greatly appreciated!!

LIY

However, as I read the Pio 5060 instruction manual, the "NOTE" on p. 70 states "When signals are input from the HDMI terminals, no digital
or analog signals are output from the DIGITAL OUT terminal."

I find this very strange indeed and wonder just how one outputs Dolby Digital (5.1) to external receivers, etc. For me, this would make an HDMI hook-up next to useless. I feel as though I must be missing something here. :(

Any comments from those who really know, greatly appreciated!!

LIY

Unless the cable box, dvd player, STB has HDMI 1.1 (and almost all do not) you will NEVER get 5.1 over HDMI. The easiest and most logical thing to do is connect the cable box, STB, dvd player directly to your receiver.

Start with the plasma turned OFF.
Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold).
Wait 3 seconds.
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER (on the remote).
If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed.

Press DOWN to page through each menu (for instance, to see the multiple pages that make up the INFORMATION section). Press MUTE to jump through the different menus.[/QUOTE]

I can't get into the SM on my 930 using the above sequence! Am I missing something?? "LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT" are pressed one after the other or simultaneously? It's probably something very simple that I'm missing! Thanks for any help with this issue!!

You are mistaken, it's not an HDMI connector. It's a control cable for the MDR. It doesn't have the same connector or pin configuration, but is comparable in size (slightly bigger).So, will it pass thru a 2" wiring chase?

Unless the cable box, dvd player, STB has HDMI 1.1 (and almost all do not) you will NEVER get 5.1 over HDMI. The easiest and most logical thing to do is connect the cable box, STB, dvd player directly to your receiver.

Nemo:

If you go with the 79avi, it is HDMI 1.1 and therefore you should be able to run the HDMI straight through: 79avi-74txi-1130HD.

My proposed configuration is slightly different and is based on the 74txi manual. Apparently, in order to get the most out of the SR+ connection (and control all three components) Pioneer recommends sending the video direct to the plasma and sending the audio separately to the receiver. My plan is to use HDMI to connect my 59avi to the 1130HD and the i-link to send audio to the 74txi receiver (this also has the benefit of one connection for DVD-A and SACD audio as well). I suspect the direct connection improves PQ as well.

D-Nice

The issue I raise is therefore a subtle one. The question is: will connecting the 59avi to the 1130 via HDMI permanently disable the digital audio out from the 1130 media receiver? You are correct that, for dvds, it should not be an issue as I will be running the sound from the dvd player direct to the 74txi receiver. But I want the digital audio out from the 1130 to work so I can run cable sound to my 74txi receiver and not use the 1130 speakers. I plan on using a cablecard not set-top box so no way to run sound direct as with the dvd player.

So, will it pass thru a 2" wiring chase?

Yep they should, you may have to push one connector in front of the the other, but they should fit through.

sorry for any confusion...direct tv told me i do not need to buy any hdmi cables b/c they come with the hd dvr box.

i was wondering if i needed anything else to optimize viewing experience or any other tips

Oh ok. Well the cables that come with the Tivo are poor quality, they may be fine just to get things rolling. However, I would suggest you upgrade to something that has better shielding and higher quality conductors and connectors.

But how about the following set-up: cable/cablecard into the 1130 (no box); digital out from the 1130 Media Receiver into a separate receiver for sound, and a dvd player hooked into the 1130 HD via HDMI (with the DVD player audio also fed into a separate receiver).


Perfect. Connect your 79avi directly to the 1130 so that you can take full advantage of 480i over HDMI to your plasma. Use a cable card and you will be able to use the optical out from the 1130 to your 74txi.

Nemo:

The issue I raise is therefore a subtle one. The question is: will connecting the 59avi to the 1130 via HDMI permanently disable the digital audio out from the 1130 media receiver? You are correct that, for dvds, it should not be an issue as I will be running the sound from the dvd player direct to the 74txi receiver. But I want the digital audio out from the 1130 to work so I can run cable sound to my 74txi receiver and not use the 1130 speakers. I plan on using a cablecard not set-top box so no way to run sound direct as with the dvd player.

I think it might be a permanent problem, insofar as the menu in which you can change settings for digital audio out is not input specific, I believe. But maybe if you switch inputs (e.g. to your DVD player) and then go back to that menu, it will look different. I'll try to take a look tonight.



For those getting worried, note that if you run your digital audio out directly from the source (e.g. DVD player) to the receiver, and that source allows both HDMI out for video and digital audio out (my Moto 6412 cable box apparently doesn't) then none of this matters.

Andy

Well, I ordered my 1130 a week and a half ago at Magnolia. I was 18th on the list, and they were expecting 24 in "Late October". I went down to the local "Pioneer Event" to ask the rep some questions. While I was there, I got the call that they had received 9, and I was getting one. Turns out the 17 other people on the list had not all prepaid, and that moved me up. It arrived Sunday. Works Great with HD, works great with my computer, works fine with SD. After 6 weeks of trying to get two different panasonics to work well with my computer, it all just works now!

Cheers,
Drew

D-Nice:
Do you think that PQ will suffer if I hook the 79 via HDMI into the 74 first, then via HDMI to the 1130? Your post about taking fully advantage of 480i made me wonder.

D-Nice:
Do you think that PQ will suffer if I hook the 79 via HDMI into the 74 first, then via HDMI to the 1130? Your post about taking fully advantage of 480i made me wonder.

If you assume no loss through cabling, HDMI is a digital interface, so there should be zero loss in pq.

The 480i comment is in reference to the outstanding scaling quality of the pioneers when given a 480i signal. In fact, there are special scaling features specifically designed for 480i that arent applied at other input resolutions. My testing shows that inputting a 480i signal over HDMI into the panel is much better than externally allowing some cheaper device (dvd player for example) to upscale prior to the 1130's input.


My 1130 just passed 100 hr break in ;)

D-Nice:
Do you think that PQ will suffer if I hook the 79 via HDMI into the 74 first, then via HDMI to the 1130? Your post about taking fully advantage of 480i made me wonder.

As MaliciousBraham stated, theoretically, no...but I wouldn't take the chance. The Pioneer 79avi so far is the best option for the Pioneer 6Gs.

I forgot something. If you do use the 74txi as your hdmi "switch" you have to remember that you will lose per input settings memory capability as you will only have one connection to the MR (dvd player and STB connected to the 74txi and 74txi connected to the MR).

I forgot something. If you do use the 74txi as your hdmi "switch" you have to remember that you will lose per input settings memory capability as you will only have one connection to the MR (dvd player and STB connected to the 74txi and 74txi connected to the MR).


Thanks MB and DNice - that helps. And good point DNice - for right now, the 79 will be the only input. I'm in the middle of BFE and haven't decided if I can afford the satellite HD packages. So for now, I stick with DVD and get my news from the internet.

Sounds like 480i is the best way to go from the player - I can't wait to try! Thanks again.

I agree the new model 79 player would be the best option for the panel. Also for people that will or already use an outboard scalers actually prefer 480i as well. The scaler does a pure conversion of the source instead of taking a 480p, 720p, 1080i which may already been upscaled by an inferior device.

Pure in = pure out! So 480i is the best for scalers and the Pio PDP's.

Well, I ordered my 1130 a week and a half ago at Magnolia. I was 18th on the list, and they were expecting 24 in "Late October". I went down to the local "Pioneer Event" to ask the rep some questions. While I was there, I got the call that they had received 9, and I was getting one. Turns out the 17 other people on the list had not all prepaid, and that moved me up. It arrived Sunday. Works Great with HD, works great with my computer, works fine with SD. After 6 weeks of trying to get two different panasonics to work well with my computer, it all just works now!

Cheers,
Drew


Pic looks great.

I would recommend that you wall mount or place the center speaker on a stand of some sort. Being on the floor you loose a lot of the sound. It gets absorbed by the carpet as well as being way, way, way, below your ear level. Center channels are sensitive to line of sight. Speech will sound muffled and bland, while music tracks will loose their sound stage and clarity.

You run a Denon 3100 as DVD source?

Hi -- Going to buy a Pio 5060 after a lot of handwringing over trying to decide on it or the panny 50". Anyone who has bought one recently ... could you PM me where you decided to get it from and how much you paid. I'm am trying to find the best deal I can from a good vendor so I can justify or minimize the difference in price from a Panny 50x500u (or HP 5000) to a Pio.

Thanks a lot!

- raj

Has anyone used a Chief PLP 2081 to mount their 1130/5060?

I need to run the cable chase behind the drywall (for the MR->panel cable) before they tape and mud everything in my remodel, and they are getting very close to that stage! My problem is that there is one hole in the back of the wall mounted Chief bracket for cables to run through-- the rest is solid metal. This will require that I am rather exact about where the 3" chase exits the wall.

The problem is that my Pio 1130 is not due to deliver for another few weeks. Without the tv, I don't know how far the it will extend below the wall mounted bracket and therefore where to mount the bracket to have the tv at my desired height and hence where to put the exit to the chase conduit.

Does anyone have the dimension from the bottom of the wall mount to what would be the bottom of the 1130 when mounted using the Chief?

Thanks to anyone who can help!!! (and thanks to oldcband for the Chief mount!) :)

dial911

:D

You are correct. Between trying to get all my usual stuff done, taking delivery, playing a bit, reprogramming my remote, playing some more, then begrudgingly having some dinner, then watching a DVD, then playing some more, then going to bed, I haven't made time to post, <exhale>.

So here's a bit of rambling first impression....

It's a mixed bag.

On the plus side:

- Everything works as expected, no pixel problems, perfect "piano black" finish on bezel, stand, and MR. Feels like a Pioneer in this regard.

- Media Receiver fan is quieter than the 4350 I briefly had. No detectable screen buzz.

- Colors are beautiful.

- Clear improvement in blacks. Definitely gets into the "inky" territory for me, subjectively, without doing any side-by-side comparison. I would call the difference significant. One thing I didn't like with the 4350 and 4304, since it highlighted the problem, was the gray background during movie credits. The 1130 looks black while those credits roll.

- I'm not sure I'm seeing more shadow detail. If it is there, I think I would have to find it with a side-by-side.

- Having all the control over settings is great!

- Pleasant surprise: Stretch modes in HD now include Full, Wide, Zoom, and 4:3!

On the minus side:

- Movement artifacts are definitely there. I suspect that they haven't improved but moving from a 43 to a 50" has made them more noticible. I have more tweaking to do before making final judgement. If I can't get it better or have my brain compensate perceptually, this may be bothersome. Suggestions welcome.

- I think also related to the size increase is less satisfaction with SD cable than on the 43". However, I moved from component to HDMI input for cable with the display change. I need to put component back to make the comparison before judging.

- Same thing with HD in terms of noise. I rarely noticed noise at all on HD channels with the 4304 or 4350. Again, I need to switch back to component for a fair comparison, but I'm afraid it may be the increase in screen size. On the other hand, I noticed no noise watching DVD through HDMI. So, we'll see.

Tentative Conclusions:

- Clear improvement in blacks.
- HDMI connection from STB may be giving my trouble.
- 50" may turn out to be too big. :(

More to come, including a pic or two.

Edit: Well, I swapped HDMI cables and tried component for the STB. Component is a tad softer, nothing dramatic. My two concerns are still mosquito noise and movement artifacts (stutter type problem on slow pans). I've tried all sorts of combinations of settings, without much success in improvement. If anyone has suggestions, I'd like to try things I'm not thinking of.

What settings are you currently using?

I agree the new model 79 player would be the best option for the panel. Also for people that will or already use an outboard scalers actually prefer 480i as well. The scaler does a pure conversion of the source instead of taking a 480p, 720p, 1080i which may already been upscaled by an inferior device.

Pure in = pure out! So 480i is the best for scalers and the Pio PDP's.


Just to make sure I understand (sorry, still learning), if I don't use a scaler and just use the 1130 (along with the 74 receiver), you're saying 480i is the purest signal? Just wanted to clarify that you didn't mean a scaler AND the PDP. Thanks.

What settings are you currently using?
Thanks for taking a look D-Nice. I'll post them tonight when I get home.

BTW, I just posted more comments in the other thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6421254&&#post6421254

Hi -- Was wondering if anyone has experience with the following vendors ... I am thinking of buying a Pio 5060HD from one of them - dbuys.com, mpsuperstore.com elctrodiscounts Ideal Audio/Video, Dr Plasma & ProVideo or IBUYPLASMA -- or if someone has a better suggustion that would come in at the pricepoint those vendors may offer.

Please PM if you could

Thanks

- raj

Do any of the Pio experts out there know if you can toggle between 2 preset picture settings - like "User" and "Standard" - without cycling through all the presets? (5050)

Do any of the Pio experts out there know if you can toggle between 2 preset picture settings - like "User" and "Standard" - without cycling through all the presets? (5050)
I've not seen the ability to do that with the existing remote. The only way it would be possible, as far as I can see, is if there are discrete codes for selecting AV modes. You could then use a programmable remote to execute them. Maybe have the Pio remote learn them once you had them in a programmable.

I'd check with Pio cust svc to see if discrete codes are available. Maybe in the service manual? Or search the remote control sites like remotecentral.com and remotecodelist.com.

:D

You are correct. Between trying to get all my usual stuff done, taking delivery, playing a bit, reprogramming my remote, playing some more, then begrudgingly having some dinner, then watching a DVD, then playing some more, then going to bed, I haven't made time to post, <exhale>.

So here's a bit of rambling first impression....

It's a mixed bag.
On the minus side:

- Movement artifacts are definitely there. I suspect that they haven't improved but moving from a 43 to a 50" has made them more noticible. I have more tweaking to do before making final judgement. If I can't get it better or have my brain compensate perceptually, this may be bothersome. Suggestions welcome.



[B].

For me, I had the 4340 for about a month when I started feeling that something jsut was not right about the picture. However I could not really place what the problem was. But once I knew it was the pans scene, I kept seeing this effect and in the year and a half I had it, I jsut could not get it out of my mind. Perhaps not knowing it was better =p Anyway I moved to the 434CMX model and a Lumagen HDP and it was way way better handling pans as it accept native.

Of course moving to 50" defintely made it worse. This could be a deal breaker so make sure you make your decision within the return or exchange period. Again from what I see in the forums, the people who see this always see it. The people who don't ..... Don't ask!

Oliver

If you assume no loss through cabling, HDMI is a digital interface, so there should be zero loss in pq.

The 480i comment is in reference to the outstanding scaling quality of the pioneers when given a 480i signal. In fact, there are special scaling features specifically designed for 480i that arent applied at other input resolutions. My testing shows that inputting a 480i signal over HDMI into the panel is much better than externally allowing some cheaper device (dvd player for example) to upscale prior to the 1130's input.

My 1130 just passed 100 hr break in ;)

Congrats, I've got an 1120. What settings do you use? How does the TV Guide work?

Greg

hey guys,

I'm ordering the PDP 5060 tomorrow and I just had one major question.....

Will the PDP 5060 allow me to PIP/Split screen Two HDMI signals or Two Components signals (or combination of the two)?

Many sets only let you PIP one HD input and the other must be analog. I just wanted to know because the girlfriend may want to watch something else one day, and I don't want to have to tell her to go downstairs.... ;) .

Thanks a bunch,

Spades

What settings are you currently using?
Ok, here are my settings for HD. I haven't run DVE/Avia yet to get different settings for DVD.

User Mode
Contrast 40
Brightness +4
Color -10
Tint 0
Sharpness 0

PureCinema Off
Color Temp Mid
CTI Off
Color Management all 0
DNR High
MPEG NR Low

DRE:
Dynamic Contrast Mid
Black Level Off
ACL Off
Gamma 2
I-P Mode 2

Feedback welcome!

Ok, here are my settings for HD. I haven't run DVE/Avia yet to get different settings for DVD.

User Mode
Contrast 40
Brightness +4
Color -10
Tint 0
Sharpness 0

PureCinema STD
Color Temp Mid
CTI Off
Color Management all 0
DNR High
MPEG NR Low

DRE:
Dynamic Contrast Mid
Black Level Off
ACL Off
Gamma 2
I-P Mode 2

Feedback welcome!

Try these for your DVD player:

User Mode
Contrast 28
Brightness -3 or -2
Color -6
Tint 0
Sharpness -3

PureCinema Off
Color Temp Manual
CTI Off
Color Management all 0
DNR Low
MPEG NR Low

DRE:
Dynamic Contrast High or Mid
Black Level On
ACL Off
Gamma 2
I-P Mode 2


I've been playing with the RGB high/low settings in the manual color temp. I HIGHLY recommend you use DVE to tweak the grayscale. After tweaking mine I now have my color at +13.

And this if your HD....

User Mode
Contrast 26
Brightness -3
Color -15
Tint 0
Sharpness -3

PureCinema STD
Color Temp Manual
CTI Off
Color Management all 0
DNR Low
MPEG NR Low

DRE:
Dynamic Contrast High
Black Level On
ACL Off
Gamma 2
I-P Mode 2

hey guys,

I'm ordering the PDP 5060 tomorrow and I just had one major question.....

Will the PDP 5060 allow me to PIP/Split screen Two HDMI signals or Two Components signals (or combination of the two)?

Many sets only let you PIP one HD input and the other must be analog. I just wanted to know because the girlfriend may want to watch something else one day, and I don't want to have to tell her to go downstairs.... ;) .

Thanks a bunch,

SpadesI'm not using HDMI, but I've used two HD sources on split screen and it works fine. I've used component HD plus HD cable, and component HD + computer via VGA. I've also used component HD plus component SD (DVD). Basically, any combination works, so I expect the same is true with HDMI sources.

Pic looks great.

I would recommend that you wall mount or place the center speaker on a stand of some sort. Being on the floor you loose a lot of the sound. It gets absorbed by the carpet as well as being way, way, way, below your ear level. Center channels are sensitive to line of sight. Speech will sound muffled and bland, while music tracks will loose their sound stage and clarity.

You run a Denon 3100 as DVD source?

Thanks for the comment. I will indeed move the center channel up, just as soon as I figure out what I want to place it on. It used to be inside the stand for my CRT television. Now that the plasma is so slim against the wall, the speakers stick out...

The Media Receiver put me over the limit on my rack as well. I am using an older Sony DVD player, scaled by an iScan HD. There are also a couple Ultimate TV's, an HD Tivo, a Marantz 8200, a Marantz CD Player, a multichannel RF Modulator, and a Pismo Powermac in there with the MR

Oh, and I plan to hide all those wires...

-Drew

sorry if this is a stupid question but with these two plasmas being the first two i owned im just getting involved with all this stuff. anyway, bought the monster hdmi cable. one issue is that when i connected it, i got picture but no sound. i had to plug the audio cable back in to get the analog audio. am i doing something wrong? i think im sure the hdmi cable is working with video b/c when i set the tv to 1080i, it showed a picture but before the cable, there was no picture. i was under the impression that when i connected my hdmi cable all those other cables (i.e. red, white, green, yellow, blue) would not be needed. obviiously i need some serious help. any tips?

sorry if this is a stupid question but with these two plasmas being the first two i owned im just getting involved with all this stuff. anyway, bought the monster hdmi cable. one issue is that when i connected it, i got picture but no sound. i had to plug the audio cable back in to get the analog audio. am i doing something wrong? i think im sure the hdmi cable is working with video b/c when i set the tv to 1080i, it showed a picture but before the cable, there was no picture. i was under the impression that when i connected my hdmi cable all those other cables (i.e. red, white, green, yellow, blue) would not be needed. obviiously i need some serious help. any tips?


Are you sure you have the sound in your plasma's HDMI menu set to digital instead of analog? Also check your STB settings to make sure it is set to output audio over the HDMI connection.

I was under the assumption that HDMI as it exists currently does not carry audio. Is this incorrect? Perhaps it is just my Motorola STB that does not carry audio out of its HDMI output?

My head hurts from reading about and looking at plasmas. It's down to 2 -- the Pio 5060 and the Panny TH50PX50. I thought I was looking at them side by side and had a hard time differentiating PQ (maybe SLIGHTLY better blacks & detail on the Panny) when I learned that I was actually looking at a 5050 C City had misidentified. No one else nearby has the 5060, but there is an 1130 at the local Tweeter. My questions:

Is the 5060 noticeably better than the 5050?

Is the 1130 close enough to the 5060 for me to actually make a decision and get off this merry-go-round?

Any rumblings about discounts before Christmas? (I hope this is an abstract enough question to be legal.)

Many Thanks!

Angus

I have my 4360 for about two weeks now and I love it. One thing that bothers me, however, is that the TV Guide On Screen comes up with a delay. About a full second after I press the button on the remote. Is this normal?
I use CableCARD (w/o a cable box of course).

hey guys,

Will the PDP 5060 allow me to PIP/Split screen Two HDMI signals or Two Components signals (or combination of the two)?

Many sets only let you PIP one HD input and the other must be analog. I just wanted to know because the girlfriend may want to watch something else one day, and I don't want to have to tell her to go downstairs.... ;) .




My 4360 does allow me to do PIP from my HDMI DVD player and the cable/antenna input (I use CableCARD). However, it does not allow PIP from the same input (e.g. cable box). I guess I was ignorant assuming that one could watch two different TV channels at the same time with only one antenna/cable input. This will work if you have e.g. a digital antenna (cable) and a separate analog antenna (rabbit ears).

Just to make sure I understand (sorry, still learning), if I don't use a scaler and just use the 1130 (along with the 74 receiver), you're saying 480i is the purest signal? Just wanted to clarify that you didn't mean a scaler AND the PDP. Thanks.

Correct.

I am using my HDMI input on the 1130 from a Motorola 6412 III Cable box.

When watching SD with the following settings, the side bars which I thought would be black or grey have video. Its as if the 4:3 image is on top of the wide image.

My settings:

AV Selection: Standard
Auto Size: On
4:3 Mode: 4:3
Side Mask: Auto

When I change the Side Mask to "Fixed" I get grey side bars.

Is the panel working properly? The overlay seems very strange and useless.

Thanks

John

My head hurts from reading about and looking at plasmas. It's down to 2 -- the Pio 5060 and the Panny TH50PX50. I thought I was looking at them side by side and had a hard time differentiating PQ (maybe SLIGHTLY better blacks & detail on the Panny) when I learned that I was actually looking at a 5050 C City had misidentified. No one else nearby has the 5060, but there is an 1130 at the local Tweeter. My questions:

Is the 5060 noticeably better than the 5050?

Is the 1130 close enough to the 5060 for me to actually make a decision and get off this merry-go-round?

Any rumblings about discounts before Christmas? (I hope this is an abstract enough question to be legal.)

Many Thanks!

Angus

Out of the box the Elite and the 5060 should look almost identical. There might a perceptual difference to some. They are better overall then the 5050 model in terms of PQ, noise, heat, weight.

However the Elite has more tweeking capabilities to make the picture look slightly better then the 5060. But overall they are very close in PQ. So if you like what you see on the Elite you will like it just as much on the 5060.

Good luck.

I am using my HDMI input on the 1130 from a Motorola 6412 III Cable box.

When watching SD with the following settings, the side bars which I thought would be black or grey have video. Its as if the 4:3 image is on top of the wide image.

My settings:

AV Selection: Standard
Auto Size: On
4:3 Mode: 4:3
Side Mask: Auto

When I change the Side Mask to "Fixed" I get grey side bars.

Is the panel working properly? The overlay seems very strange and useless.

Thanks

John
That's the way it works with my 1120, and yes, it is strange and useless. I either stretch the 4:3 to full or stick with grey side bars. The B&W video sidebars are very annoying to me.

Nuzy

I am using my HDMI input on the 1130 from a Motorola 6412 III Cable box.

When watching SD with the following settings, the side bars which I thought would be black or grey have video. Its as if the 4:3 image is on top of the wide image.

My settings:

AV Selection: Standard
Auto Size: On
4:3 Mode: 4:3
Side Mask: Auto

When I change the Side Mask to "Fixed" I get grey side bars.

Is the panel working properly? The overlay seems very strange and useless.

Thanks

John

Yes that is normal operation. I watched a live concert 4:3 dvd last night and that caught me off guard at first... couldnt tell if it was the dvd or the tv. lol.

Its not useless in that it is a more natural defense against burn-in and image retention. I kind of like it, but it is disctracting on some 4:3 material. I normally just use the "natural wide" aspect setting so that I dont have to worry about sidebars...

Yes that is normal operation. I watched a live concert 4:3 dvd last night and that caught me off guard at first... couldnt tell if it was the dvd or the tv. lol.

Its not useless in that it is a more natural defense against burn-in and image retention. I kind of like it, but it is disctracting on some 4:3 material. I normally just use the "natural wide" aspect setting so that I dont have to worry about sidebars...

Perhaps "useless" was not the correct word but why not just use grey with altering shades. I find it very distracting because its also in Black & White.

Thanks for the response. Glad to know I dont have a problem.

John

My head hurts from reading about and looking at plasmas. It's down to 2 -- the Pio 5060 and the Panny TH50PX50. I thought I was looking at them side by side and had a hard time differentiating PQ (maybe SLIGHTLY better blacks & detail on the Panny) when I learned that I was actually looking at a 5050 C City had misidentified. No one else nearby has the 5060, but there is an 1130 at the local Tweeter. My questions:

Is the 5060 noticeably better than the 5050?

Is the 1130 close enough to the 5060 for me to actually make a decision and get off this merry-go-round?

Any rumblings about discounts before Christmas? (I hope this is an abstract enough question to be legal.)

Many Thanks!

Angus

just go with the 1130 ;)

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has posted the settings they are using for various inputs. I actually have made a text file that is huge with the settings from this thread, so when I get my 1130 (hopefully soon), I'll have a starting point. I know settings are subjective, but they are a GREAT starting point, and along with my DVE disc, hopefully I'll get somewhere close to what I'm looking for.

And this if your HD....


Thanks for your settings D-Nice. I hadn't realized about the manual color temp adjustments until you pointed me to them. I hope to work with my callibration discs this weekend and will probably get very familiar with them!

My current thinking and state of affairs... I guess I could call this the "State of the Obsessive Address!" :p

I am adjusting to the size of the set. I am seeing mosquito noise less... I either see it on a channel, or I don't see it at all. I also seem to be adjusting to motion artifacts somewhat.

I wonder if there is a short break in period during which subtle rough edges get smoothed out. That in combination with my own perceptual shifts and adjustments, the PQ is better.

So, as Emily Littella always said..... "Nevermind!" Seriously, I hope I did convey the strong positives of the picture in my original post. The noise and motion was enough to throw me. But reducing concern about those factors let the otherwise wonderful qualities shine through.

I think what really did it was watching Amadeus on HDNet (I think it was) last night. I needed to really get absorbed into a movie to forget about the TV for awhile. It helped me turn the corner, along with the spectacular colors of that period setting and the striking blacks that really make the difference between the 6th and earlier generations of the Pio.

I'm not 100% there yet, but much more relaxed about it. Thanks everyone for not dismissing me as a kook. I do know, that if any group of people know what I went through and what this is like, it is the AVSers. Though I think I might be worse that the average obsessive here even!

Perhaps "useless" was not the correct word but why not just use grey with altering shades. I find it very distracting because its also in Black & White.

Thanks for the response. Glad to know I dont have a problem.

JohnSo, are you saying there is no "black" side bar option at all? It's either grey or a B&W stretched-video underlay?


ron

So, are you saying there is no "black" side bar option at all? It's either grey or a B&W stretched-video underlay?


ron

No.

When I change the Side Mask to "Auto" the side bars are grey with no video. I can also get the side bars to be black with a different setting which I dont remember right now. So I actually have 3 choices of sidebars Black, grey or B&W video.

I was just worried that the B&w video was some type of problem which apparently it isnt.

No.

When I change the Side Mask to "Auto" the side bars are grey with no video. I can also get the side bars to be black with a different setting which I dont remember right now. So I actually have 3 choices of sidebars Black, grey or B&W video.

I was just worried that the B&w video was some type of problem which apparently it isnt.

How do you switch between the sidebars color? I want to try that on my 930!

Thanks for your settings D-Nice. I hadn't realized about the manual color temp adjustments until you pointed me to them. I hope to work with my callibration discs this weekend and will probably get very familiar with them!

My current thinking and state of affairs... I guess I could call this the "State of the Obsessive Address!" :p

I am adjusting to the size of the set. I am seeing mosquito noise less... I either see it on a channel, or I don't see it at all. I also seem to be adjusting to motion artifacts somewhat.

I wonder if there is a short break in period during which subtle rough edges get smoothed out. That in combination with my own perceptual shifts and adjustments, the PQ is better.

So, as Emily Littella always said..... "Nevermind!" Seriously, I hope I did convey the strong positives of the picture in my original post. The noise and motion was enough to throw me. But reducing concern about those factors let the otherwise wonderful qualities shine through.

I think what really did it was watching Amadeus on HDNet (I think it was) last night. I needed to really get absorbed into a movie to forget about the TV for awhile. It helped me turn the corner, along with the spectacular colors of that period setting and the striking blacks that really make the difference between the 6th and earlier generations of the Pio.

I'm not 100% there yet, but much more relaxed about it. Thanks everyone for not dismissing me as a kook. I do know, that if any group of people know what I went through and what this is like, it is the AVSers. Though I think I might be worse that the average obsessive here even!

Same here! At first I taught that my 930(from 9 ft) looks worst than my 32" Panasonic Tau CRT! After tweaking and some 60 hours of burn-in it looks better every day! So it's either the brain who is getting used or the tv needs some time to settle and to really show off!

Same here! At first I taught that my 930(from 9 ft) looks worst than my 32" Panasonic Tau CRT! After tweaking and some 60 hours of burn-in it looks better every day! So it's either the brain who is getting used or the tv needs some time to settle and to really show off!
Hey! Waddya know? I'm not crazy! :eek:

How do you switch between the sidebars color? I want to try that on my 930!

For black bars, the signal must be 720p or 1080i. For gray bars the signal must be 480i or 480p.

Does none of you Pio owners use TV Guide on Screen? Please review my previous post. I really like to know if I am doing something wrong or that it is normal for the guide to come up with a delay.

I also hate it that the guide's channel order is not, by default, the same as it was on the cable box... sigh... :confused:

Does none of you Pio owners use TV Guide on Screen? Please review my previous post. I really like to know if I am doing something wrong or that it is normal for the guide to come up with a delay.

I also hate it that the guide's channel order is not, by default, the same as it was on the cable box... sigh... :confused:Yes, it's normal for it to take 1-2 seconds for the guide to come up.

I have just learned that the 4360 is slightly over 48" wide with the speakers attached, which makes it too wide for my cabinet. I hate the idea of paying for the speakers if I'm not going to use them, or can't use them. Does they make you buy the speakers with the 930, or can it be purchased without? Can someone PM me with an approximate "best price" for the 930 and the vendor? Thanks in advance !

Not sure about the 930, but the 1130 comes with Detachable Speakers. I placed the unopened box of speakers up in the attic - never know when you may need them in the future. I'm pretty sure the 930's come up with a box of speakers as well.

Speaking of the TV Guide's ordering system... Is there any way to have it automatically sort numerically or alphabetically?

If not, can I just reset it to factory default since I really messed it up? I ran the setup process but it remembers my ordering!

I have just learned that the 4360 is slightly over 48" wide with the speakers attached, which makes it too wide for my cabinet. I hate the idea of paying for the speakers if I'm not going to use them, or can't use them. Does they make you buy the speakers with the 930, or can it be purchased without? Can someone PM me with an approximate "best price" for the 930 and the vendor? Thanks in advance !

I too would very much appreciate a PM as to where and how much you paid for a Pio Elite 1130!

Much thanks in advance!!!

LIY

Hey! Waddya know? I'm not crazy! :eek:

Easy....Easy!! Who said something about you being crazy??!! I was referring to "my" experience with my set and to "my" brain adjusting to the image, it was never about you, just the experience seemed to similar!

Easy....Easy!! Who said something about you being crazy??!! I was referring to "my" experience with my set and to "my" brain adjusting to the image, it was never about you, just the experience seemed to similar!
Right, I was taking your experience as validation of mine.... meaning I'm not the only one that saw early problems that went away. I thought I was and might be crazy!

Right, I was taking your experience as validation of mine.... meaning I'm not the only one that saw early problems that went away. I thought I was and might be crazy!

My bad! I missundertood you! Everything is perfectly clear now!(like the image on my 930!! :p )

For black bars, the signal must be 720p or 1080i. For gray bars the signal must be 480i or 480p.

Thanks D-Nice! So I guess that's why I'm seeing the grey bars only because I'm sending a 480i signal to my set!

Hey everyone, new to the site, but I've learned alot from your posts over the past few weeks. I have the 5060 set and currently have a Cablevision dvr thru component on input 1 and a panny S77 dvd thru hdmi on input 3. I also have D* and would like to add a hd box thru them. Question is, since inputs 1 & 3 are already being used, how would I add the D* hd box? Would I need to sacrifice the S77 on input 3? I tried connecting the dvr to input 2, but then I don't get a hi-def picture. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Hey everyone, new to the site, but I've learned alot from your posts over the past few weeks. I have the 5060 set and currently have a Cablevision dvr thru component on input 1 and a panny S77 dvd thru hdmi on input 3. I also have D* and would like to add a hd box thru them. Question is, since inputs 1 & 3 are already being used, how would I add the D* hd box? Would I need to sacrifice the S77 on input 3? I tried connecting the dvr to input 2, but then I don't get a hi-def picture. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Will you have HD from both Cablevision and DirecTV? IF no, then put the one that will not be HD on input 2 thru component. If both will be HD, interesting that you would do that, then you could use connect Cablevision on input 1 with component cables and DirecTV on input 1's HDMI. Only problem with that is you would have to go into the HDMI menu and enable/disable the port to switch between the 2.

Have you ever thought about getting a cable card from Cablevision?

Hey everyone, new to the site, but I've learned alot from your posts over the past few weeks. I have the 5060 set and currently have a Cablevision dvr thru component on input 1 and a panny S77 dvd thru hdmi on input 3. I also have D* and would like to add a hd box thru them. Question is, since inputs 1 & 3 are already being used, how would I add the D* hd box? Would I need to sacrifice the S77 on input 3? I tried connecting the dvr to input 2, but then I don't get a hi-def picture. Any help is greatly appreciated.
If you don't mind plugging into the front of the media receiver, use inputs one and three for HDMI and four for component.

I have the Moto 6412 DVR and am finding I like the component connection better than the DVI/HDMI, so I think it is worth experimenting to see what works best for you.

By the way, I also have the S77 and like it alot. I am running it into my Pio with HDMI. I watched Batman Begins last night and was very jazzed about the result, particularly after doing some grayscale calibration.

Will you have HD from both Cablevision and DirecTV? IF no, then put the one that will not be HD on input 2 thru component. If both will be HD, interesting that you would do that, then you could use connect Cablevision on input 1 with component cables and DirecTV on input 1's HDMI. Only problem with that is you would have to go into the HDMI menu and enable/disable the port to switch between the 2.

Have you ever thought about getting a cable card from Cablevision?

Thanks D-Nice,

Yes, I would have HD on both...(NFL Sunday Ticket and ESPN2HD thru Dtv)...I think I will get the cable card from Cablevision.

If you don't mind plugging into the front of the media receiver, use inputs one and three for HDMI and four for component.

I have the Moto 6412 DVR and am finding I like the component connection better than the DVI/HDMI, so I think it is worth experimenting to see what works best for you.

By the way, I also have the S77 and like it alot. I am running it into my Pio with HDMI. I watched Batman Begins last night and was very jazzed about the result, particularly after doing some grayscale calibration.

Thanks Pstrisik,

I'll try the cablebox thru input four...yes the S77 is sweet...Training Day never looked better!

This is a question for Pstrisik and Blackspyrit about the S77 with the Pioneer.

Do you guys listen with 5.1 sound and hdmi cable? I thought I had read here that for some reason, that doesn't work. Any insights?

Also, some say you don't need an upconverting player because the Pio will produce better picture without it. But you guys find that it makes a better picture?

Thanks.

This is a question for Pstrisik and Blackspyrit about the S77 with the Pioneer.

Do you guys listen with 5.1 sound and hdmi cable? I thought I had read here that for some reason, that doesn't work. Any insights?

Also, some say you don't need an upconverting player because the Pio will produce better picture without it. But you guys find that it makes a better picture?

Thanks.
Vashti,

I haven't tried to have the sound go through HDMI since I use a 5.1 receiver. I use the optical out from the S77 directly to the receiver.

There are lots of arguments about using upconverting or not. I had a 5 year old carousel non-progressive DVD/CD player and needed to get something better. I didn't try a dedicated progressive player. I have tried every resolution available from the S77 over both component and HDMI and like 1080i over HDMI the best.

I'm finally getting around to taking a few shots of my 1130. My camera is not the best, but these came out ok. There are a few more on the page linking in my sig, including a couple of Batman Begins DVD shots.

These are HD cable through a Motorola 6412 using component at 1080i. Backlighting is a 6500K flourescent bulb in a cheap home depot 8" fixture (about $15 total).

http://216.119.64.238/_misc/ht/hd_cable_console.jpg

http://216.119.64.238/_misc/ht/hd_cable4.jpg

http://216.119.64.238/_misc/ht/hd_cable3.jpg

Peter, that looks beautiful. Are you over your thoughts of exchanging it? I think the pictures suggest you may have bonded with it...or at least with Julia Roberts.

Wow!! Must not buy yet..... Must wait to save more money..... Those are stunning shots. Congratulations!

The beauty of the 6G Pioneers.........

Peter, I just went back and looked at the other shots of your set-up. They were breathtaking - except on the dark ones, I noticed there didn't seem to be much detail in the blacks. Is that an issue with the set or it just how a digital photo comes out? Thanks.

I'm getting really close to pulling the trigger. Thanks to this group, I'm either going to buy a Pio 5060 or 1130 . . . IF I buy a Pioneer. The PQ is stunning--even if they are over budget.

I just have one final question. I'm working this into a living room with severe limitations. Two seats directly in front of the screen will be about 17' away and people sitting on a sofa (perpendicular to the screen) will be 10-15' away (I know, the seating arrangement sucks but she-who-must-be-obeyed says there are no other options). Would most of you be satisfied with a state-of-the-art 50" screen like the two pio's at those distances or would you look hard at a 55" Hitachi? I've seen an HDT55 Hitachi, and it's nice, but doesn't, in my humble opinion, hold a candle to the Pios. Still, at those distances, I'm wondering if the larger screen area would trump the better PQ. I know that I'll have to decide for myself, but wondered if anyone else has faced a similar question and whether you're satisfied with your choice.

Thanks again for all the help you've given newbie's like me already.

Angus

Peter, I just went back and looked at the other shots of your set-up. They were breathtaking - except on the dark ones, I noticed there didn't seem to be much detail in the blacks. Is that an issue with the set or it just how a digital photo comes out? Thanks.
The dark shots are DVD, so they are a lower resolution to start with than the HDTV shots. And, these dark shots are very dark shots, without a lot of detail in the shadows (the new Batman has a lot of that). I do think the camera lost a little bit more than is there.

When I watched the movie, I never felt it was too dark. There were a lot of night shots in Gotham that really created the right mood.

When I callibrated using DVE, there is a graduated black to white strip and every grey level was visible. The only way significant detail would be lost in dark scenes is if there is "black crush" where you couldn't tell the difference between the darker grey levels on the test pattern.

All of that said, it is difficult to determine the shadow detail question without direct comparison between two sets.

Peter, that looks beautiful. Are you over your thoughts of exchanging it? I think the pictures suggest you may have bonded with it...or at least with Julia Roberts.
I've changed the comment under my avatar to "Movin' to Probably". Watch for further developments. :D

November 20th is the 30day mark, end of return period. So don't lay any money down yet!

As far as Julia Roberts goes... she's not really my type. But Saturday afternoon didn't leave many HD choices other than football, Corwin's quest, some teen horror movie called "Decoys". And Julia is quite photogenic. ;)

I'm getting really close to pulling the trigger. Thanks to this group, I'm either going to buy a Pio 5060 or 1130 . . . IF I buy a Pioneer. The PQ is stunning--even if they are over budget.

I just have one final question. I'm working this into a living room with severe limitations. Two seats directly in front of the screen will be about 17' away and people sitting on a sofa (perpendicular to the screen) will be 10-15' away (I know, the seating arrangement sucks but she-who-must-be-obeyed says there are no other options). Would most of you be satisfied with a state-of-the-art 50" screen like the two pio's at those distances or would you look hard at a 55" Hitachi? I've seen an HDT55 Hitachi, and it's nice, but doesn't, in my humble opinion, hold a candle to the Pios. Still, at those distances, I'm wondering if the larger screen area would trump the better PQ. I know that I'll have to decide for myself, but wondered if anyone else has faced a similar question and whether you're satisfied with your choice.

Thanks again for all the help you've given newbie's like me already.

Angus
How about the 61" Elite? 17' is a bit far for a 50", unless you don't like that bigger screen feel. I'm sitting 10' and it's perfect. My desk is behind the couch and that seat is probably close to 17' from the screen. When I turn to watch something that's on, I can certainly watch comfortably, but I am definitely aware of watching from across the room.

Another thought... when I watch TV that fills the screen, the image is definitely big enough. In fact, if it is one of those shows that goes hyper with the camera angles and changes, it feels a bit too close. But when I watch a DVD that is widescreen and letterboxed on the 16:9 display, I can even long for a bigger screen. I've thought the best solution, though way too much money, is to have a 43" plasma for TV and a drop down screen with ceiling mounted projector for movies. Now we are talking somewhere in the neighborhood of $10K plus for that set up!


Is there a store near you that you can sit and watch a 50" for at least 10 minutes or so from 17' to get a feel for it?

How about the 61" Elite? 17' is a bit far for a 50", unless you don't like that bigger screen feel. . . . .

Is there a store near you that you can sit and watch a 50" for at least 10 minutes or so from 17' to get a feel for it?

Peter, thanks for the thoughts. 61" would be great, but the wall I'll be using won't handle it (it has to be under the stairs, remain at eye level and be partially inset into the wall; I know, I should find another room . . .). And, of course, my bank account won't handle it either.

I've watched the 50" Pio and 55" Hitachi at CC & BB, but it's hard to filter out the other 40 screens competing for your attention. I've about decided to buy a 50" try it for less than 30 days and move up if I need to.

Where did you buy your Elite?

Thanks again.

Angus

Peter, thanks for the thoughts. 61" would be great, but the wall I'll be using won't handle it (it has to be under the stairs, remain at eye level and be partially inset into the wall; I know, I should find another room . . .). And, of course, my bank account won't handle it either.

I've watched the 50" Pio and 55" Hitachi at CC & BB, but it's hard to filter out the other 40 screens competing for your attention. I've about decided to buy a 50" try it for less than 30 days and move up if I need to.

Where did you buy your Elite?

Thanks again.

Angus
I understand.

On the bright side, if you've been looking at sets at BB and CC, then it will seem bigger when you get it home.

I bought the 1130 at the new Magnolia within BB here in Anchorage on opening day.

I just have one final question. I'm working this into a living room with severe limitations. Two seats directly in front of the screen will be about 17' away and people sitting on a sofa (perpendicular to the screen) will be 10-15' away (I know, the seating arrangement sucks but she-who-must-be-obeyed says there are no other options). Would most of you be satisfied with a state-of-the-art 50" screen like the two pio's at those distances or would you look hard at a 55" Hitachi?
Angus


IMO you probably will not be satisfied with either the 50" or 55" PDP from 17 feet. Are you able to discuss this with she-who-must-be-obeyed? A large room that is used for multiple purposes can look stunning when set up with "separate groupings" of furniture. For example, a couch 10-12' feet away from the plasma wall in one area, and reading chairs flanking the fireplace in another area.

An alternative option may be to set up your plasma in another "media" room.

I'm sorry if this was posted before, but what are the recommended break-in settings for one of these (specifically, a 1130)?

I saw some recommended settings from people who tweaked them in-store, and from people who have had them past 100 hours, but nothing that specifically recommends break-in settings to lessen the "image retention" factor within the first 100 hours.

Thank you.

This is a question for Pstrisik and Blackspyrit about the S77 with the Pioneer.

Do you guys listen with 5.1 sound and hdmi cable? I thought I had read here that for some reason, that doesn't work. Any insights?

Also, some say you don't need an upconverting player because the Pio will produce better picture without it. But you guys find that it makes a better picture?

Thanks.

Vashti,

Like Peter, I use an optical cable out to my receiver. To my eyes, the picture is a little better with the S77. I output to 720p.

The dark shots are DVD, so they are a lower resolution to start with than the HDTV shots. And, these dark shots are very dark shots, without a lot of detail in the shadows (the new Batman has a lot of that). I do think the camera lost a little bit more than is there.

When I watched the movie, I never felt it was too dark. There were a lot of night shots in Gotham that really created the right mood.

When I callibrated using DVE, there is a graduated black to white strip and every grey level was visible. The only way significant detail would be lost in dark scenes is if there is "black crush" where you couldn't tell the difference between the darker grey levels on the test pattern.

All of that said, it is difficult to determine the shadow detail question without direct comparison between two sets.

Beautiful shots Peter! I just got the black stand (PDK 1012) off ebay to go with my 5060.

I haven't tried my S77 with the new 4360 yet, but with my 5050 I couldn't tell any difference between component, 720 or 1080. I switched them while my wife watched and she couldn't tell any difference either. I think she actually preferred the component picture when I forced her to pick one.

I've been very underwhelmed with the whole "upconversion" hype. I crack up when I read the DVD player section and folks have spent hundreds of hours comparing players. I personally can't tell a difference between my old Panny RP62 and the new S77 either. I guess I'm not a videophile after all :)

I haven't tried my S77 with the new 4360 yet, but with my 5050 I couldn't tell any difference between component, 720 or 1080. I switched them while my wife watched and she couldn't tell any difference either. I think she actually preferred the component picture when I forced her to pick one.

I've been very underwhelmed with the whole "upconversion" hype. I crack up when I read the DVD player section and folks have spent hundreds of hours comparing players. I personally can't tell a difference between my old Panny RP62 and the new S77 either. I guess I'm not a videophile after all :)
We seem to spend hundreds of hours comparing displays! :p

I did my comparison of S77 HDMI vs. Component with my 4304 (4th gen). Now that I have a 6th gen, I need to do it again. If the Pio processing has improved, 720p may turn out to be a better bet. We shall see.

The Panny also offers quite a bit of configuration ability. I found that adjusting contrast and brightness of the player along with the display when calibrating made a big difference in the black/white/grey level performance. There are also the color space setting and black level settings.

We seem to spend hundreds of hours comparing displays! :p

I did my comparison of S77 HDMI vs. Component with my 4304 (4th gen). Now that I have a 6th gen, I need to do it again. If the Pio processing has improved, 720p may turn out to be a better bet. We shall see.

The Panny also offers quite a bit of configuration ability. I found that adjusting contrast and brightness of the player along with the display when calibrating made a big difference in the black/white/grey level performance. There are also the color space setting and black level settings.

Nice pics! I would really be interested in seeing some brighter DVD pics for comparison purposes with other players... your S77 seems to be showing better detail than my puny LG 511... but I still have to do a lot of testing between HDMI and Component...

It will also help for comparison purposes when the new Pio Elite 79 series finally makes it to shelves.

We seem to spend hundreds of hours comparing displays! :p

Sure, but there are REAL differences in displays! :D

Just kidding.

Nice pics! I would really be interested in seeing some brighter DVD pics for comparison purposes with other players... your S77 seems to be showing better detail than my puny LG 511... but I still have to do a lot of testing between HDMI and Component...

It will also help for comparison purposes when the new Pio Elite 79 series finally makes it to shelves.
I said this earlier, but don't recall if it was in this thread... I configured the S77 with my 4th gen Pio 4304 and determined that 1080i over HDMI was the best feed. I have yet to test this with the 1130. If the processing is improved in the 6th gen, it may be that 720p or 480p will look better. I think I need to stay with HDMI to keep the Faroudja working for deinterlacing though. A project for this weekend!

If you have suggestions for particular DVD scenes, I take pics if I have those flicks. I'll get around to a few lighter pics from DVD also. I've got a superbit release of Lawrence of Arabia............

Sure, but there are REAL differences in displays! :D

Just kidding.
If not, I need to take my meds!

I fell in love with the Pioneer over the weekend. If you have a minute can you measure the height of the unit on the stand for me. The web sight only tells the dimension of the screen without the stand.

Thanks

My extended, agonizing research is coming to an end & I have decided to go with the 1130. I was going to purchase the 5060 but my local dealer's pricing was very attractive on the Elite, I thought ($500 more than the 5060 & the 5060 was well under big box pricing).

I am still debating on a DVD player. He is recommending to just go with the cheapie Panasonic S29 until the HD-DVD players are reasonably ready for purchase. Am I really missing out on anything substantial but not going with the Panasonic S77 player?

Thanks to all for their input in these threads.

Well, I took an extended lunch to play with the DVD configuration. :rolleyes:

I did stay with HDMI but changed the res to 720p instead of 1080i. Either one still seemed sharper to me than 480p over component.

A big discovery though! I have been using "Batman Begins" DVD to experiment. Given how dark most of that movie is, I found some loss of detail (see the DVD photos on the page linked in my sig). I just tried changing the gamma setting to 3 and found that it allowed significantly more detail in those dark scenes without noticibly changing perception of black level (I don't think the lowest black should be affected since the ends of the spectrum should be anchored with the gamma setting only changing the curve between them, but the perception of black might be affected). I didn't have time to try more disks. It may be that not-so-dark movies would be better off with gamma at 2, but I don't know yet.

Interesting that on HDTV, it seemed that blacks weren't quite as dark with gamma at 3. I don't know if that is because it is HD, or because it is over component rather than HDMI. I guess I need to try that now. So many variables!

I will take the same shots with this new config so y'all can see the difference. That might be this weekend though. :)

@Saluki - I hope my post made you glad you got the 1130!!

@msd2_2 - this attachment has all the measurements of the 1130 without speakers.

Peter, do you find that this ambiant light helping the viewing at all ? I was thinking to put some behind my 5060 and I'm wondering if it helps any?
Thanks

Peter, do you find that this ambiant light helping the viewing at all ? I was thinking to put some behind my 5060 and I'm wondering if it helps any?
Thanks
I do find the backlighting helpful since the room is otherwise completely dark when watching movies, in the winter anyway. In the summer, it doesn't get completely dark out at all! :(

It helps mostly with ease of viewing, particularly when the screen moves from dark to light suddenly. It supposedly helps perception of contrast and blacks but, believe it or not, I never formally compared with on and off in an A/B kind of test.

My extended, agonizing research is coming to an end & I have decided to go with the 1130. I was going to purchase the 5060 but my local dealer's pricing was very attractive on the Elite, I thought ($500 more than the 5060 & the 5060 was well under big box pricing).

I am still debating on a DVD player. He is recommending to just go with the cheapie Panasonic S29 until the HD-DVD players are reasonably ready for purchase. Am I really missing out on anything substantial but not going with the Panasonic S77 player?
Thanks to all for their input in these threads.

You're missing out on nothing. Get a cheapie progressive scan DVD player and you'll be set. My sales guy convinced me to do this and I have on regrets. :)

You're missing out on nothing. Get a cheapie progressive scan DVD player and you'll be set. My sales guy convinced me to do this and I have on regrets. :)
Did you do a comparison at home with a cheapie progressive scan vs. an upconverting player?

Did you do a comparison at home with a cheapie progressive scan vs. an upconverting player?

I won't actually have the 1130 for a month or so. I am having hardwood floors refinished & the room painted before I am able to get set up.

I won't actually have the 1130 for a month or so. I am having hardwood floors refinished & the room painted before I am able to get set up.
That was a question for plasmalvr. I just wanted to make sure s/he had made a comparison on which to base the recommendation and was not just relaying a salesperson's opinion.

BTW, an S77 is about $200. Not a lot for a solid player when you are spending 6K+ for a TV. You can bet that the S77 has considerably more in the way of calibration ability compared to a sub $100 model. And it is in the top three players at any price in the DVD Secrets Shootout (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all). If you look at their tests and read a bit about what's behind them, you will find that there is indeed difference between DVD players. And your perception of those differences increases with the quality of your display.

I have a S77 hooked up to my 1120. I really don't notice much in the way of picture quality difference between 480p, 720p, and 1080i. I attributed that to the 1120's good scaling capability, but it could be that I'm not as perceptive as some of you hard core video junkies :) There may be subtle differences, but I don't really see them. I was more interested in the HDMI hookup, features, and overall picture quality (based on the Secrets review) as opposed to the ability to upscale, so the fact that I don't really see a difference wouldn't have changed my decision to purchase the S77. My previous dvd player was not progressive scan, so all I really wanted was a nice progressive scan player. $200 didn't seem too bad to hold me over until HD-DVD becomes more affordable (compared to $800 or whatever the top Pio player cost at the time).

Nuzy

Hi everyone...I'm new to the forum and quite the novice when it comes to A/V. I recently picked up the new 1130 HD and have spent some time reading the forum to learn as much as I can. I do have a question regarding my cable connection into the receiver. I ordered and picked up a Cable Card from my cable company and always intended to use it but now I'm not sure it's the best way to go. I'm hearing I won't be able to use the TV Guide option by using the card and will not have access to On Demand movies as well. Is there anything else I should be aware of? Are there any advantages of using the Cable Card aside from not having a STB to deal with? Is PQ affected in any way? Can a STB be used with the Cable Card? Appreciate any advice...thanks very much. :)

Hi everyone...I'm new to the forum and quite the novice when it comes to A/V. I recently picked up the new 1130 HD and have spent some time reading the forum to learn as much as I can. I do have a question regarding my cable connection into the receiver. I ordered and picked up a Cable Card from my cable company and always intended to use it but now I'm not sure it's the best way to go. I'm hearing I won't be able to use the TV Guide option by using the card and will not have access to On Demand movies as well. Is there anything else I should be aware of? Are there any advantages of using the Cable Card aside from not having a STB to deal with? Is PQ affected in any way? Can a STB be used with the Cable Card? Appreciate any advice...thanks very much. :)
Welcome Dunnbrother!

Reports have been ranging from little PQ difference to much better with CC. You won't be able to use the TV Guide feature that would be in your STB, but the 1130 has the TV Guide built in. That should substitute, but I haven't tried it. I don't know what happens regarding PPV if you use the CC. And you can use cable card and STB. You would still connect the STB with HDMI or Component and just have it on its own input.

Thanks pstrisik...appreciate your help. So how do you like your 1130? I can't wait to see this unit. It's been in the box in my laundry room for over a week while I'm getting the room ready (had to wire it for surround). Thanks again...Dunnbrother

Thanks pstrisik...appreciate your help. So how do you like your 1130? I can't wait to see this unit. It's been in the box in my laundry room for over a week while I'm getting the room ready (had to wire it for surround). Thanks again...Dunnbrother
I think I've said plenty in the past week or two about how I like it, how I don't like it, my ambivalence, etc. :rolleyes: Just start reading from a few pages back in this thread and the Pio vs. Panny comparison thread started by R. Harkness.

Looking for some help. Can anyone tell me if the PDK-1011, 1012 or 1013 fits the 5060?

hi guys,

just so im clear - 5060 and 5061 are the same model right? in australia, they are called 506

cheers,

julie

hi guys,

just so im clear - 5060 and 5061 are the same model right? in australia, they are called 506

cheers,

julieYes, they're the same. The 5061 is sold through Best Buy stores and includes a wall mount.

Looking for some help. Can anyone tell me if the PDK-1011, 1012 or 1013 fits the 5060?I'm using the PDK-1011 with my 5061. I'm 99.99% certain the 1012 and 1013 also fit. Basically, the 5060/5061 has the same mounting slots on the bottom as other Pioneer/Elite models.

Two questions:

* I was in the Harvey's on 45th St in Manhattan yesterday - they had a 50" Pio Elite showcased up front. I didnt have a chance to ask if it was the new one. It say something like "506Y" as the model (definately didnt say 1130). Any ideas what i was looking at?

* To Peter - For weeks before the release of the new models you were one of biggest advocates. Now it seems that you actually considered returning, and now you are leaning to keeping. Can you give me a summary on what made you swing your feelings?

I'm using the PDK-1011 with my 5061. I'm 99.99% certain the 1012 and 1013 also fit. Basically, the 5060/5061 has the same mounting slots on the bottom as other Pioneer/Elite models.

I'm using the 1012 w/ the 5060 and it fits fine. I think the 1013 is the model being issued w/ the current elites, so that will certainly fit as well.

Two questions:

* I was in the Harvey's on 45th St in Manhattan yesterday - they had a 50" Pio Elite showcased up front. I didnt have a chance to ask if it was the new one. It say something like "506Y" as the model (definately didnt say 1130). Any ideas what i was looking at?My 1130 says 506PU on the back.

* To Peter - For weeks before the release of the new models you were one of biggest advocates. Now it seems that you actually considered returning, and now you are leaning to keeping. Can you give me a summary on what made you swing your feelings?I have been an advocate of the Pios for some time. The aesthetic design and feature set is clearly excellent, including settings memory, 4:3 stretch modes, and configurability of the elite models. The 43" I had was very clear and natural. I was hoping for the same with increased blacks and contrast quality.

Unfortunately, I got the increased blacks and contrast quality, but the overall PQ seemed to suffer slightly. In the beginning, there was some noise, but that has moderated or gone away. What I am left with is an ever so slight over processed feeling. I do not know if this is due to moving from 43" to 50", something in the new processing, or my unrealistic expectations given the money spent. I'm happy with DVD; it is HD that I still question (opposite of R. Harkness' preferences).

The thing is, I don't know if I can do much better. If I could get the Panasonic PQ in the body and performance-in-other-respects of the Pioneer, it might be an ideal result (still wouldn't know for sure until I got it home). It's possible the Fujitsu 50" would be a better choice, but I would be giving up some connectability and my favorite 4:3 stretch mode. A 50" Panny 8UK with an external processor is tempting. It's possible that the Hitachi 55" HDX62 would be a good choice, but I haven't seen it yet. It supposedly uses Panny/Fujitsu glass, its own electronics, and is largely set up like a Pioneer. I did spend about an hour today in a boutique shop that had the 55" HDX61 in a dedicated theatre room. It was completely dark with comfortable chairs at about 15 feet. Fed by Moto 6412 HD cable box and McIntosh DVD player by component. Both dedicated to the display with no splitters. I wasn't overly impressed. It was definitely a "good" picture, but not as sharp as I would have liked and with decent blacks but poor dark detail. My 1130 does better both in black level and detail. About the same in overall PQ otherwise. This was with me having the remote to work with settings all by my lonesome as the store wasn't busy and the salesman left the room after about 10 minutes. Reports are, however, that the HDX62 is significantly better.

So I will stay ambivalent and looking until I change displays or my 30 day return period runs out. I want to emphasize, particularly since many read these threads also trying to decide, that these differences are very subtle. The Pioneer is excellent. I am obsessive, and I have to be satisfied that there isn't a better choice before I will relax. That, plus the $6K expenditure contributes to me making sure I am getting the absolute best for my money.

My 1130 says 506PU on the back.

I have been an advocate of the Pios for some time. The aesthetic design and feature set is clearly excellent, including settings memory, 4:3 stretch modes, and configurability of the elite models. The 43" I had was very clear and natural. I was hoping for the same with increased blacks and contrast quality.

Unfortunately, I got the increased blacks and contrast quality, but the overall PQ seemed to suffer slightly. In the beginning, there was some noise, but that has moderated or gone away. What I am left with is an ever so slight over processed feeling. I do not know if this is due to moving from 43" to 50", something in the new processing, or my unrealistic expectations given the money spent. I'm happy with DVD; it is HD that I still question (opposite of R. Harkness' preferences).

The thing is, I don't know if I can do much better. If I could get the Panasonic PQ in the body and performance-in-other-respects of the Pioneer, it might be an ideal result (still wouldn't know for sure until I got it home). It's possible the Fujitsu 50" would be a better choice, but I would be giving up some connectability and my favorite 4:3 stretch mode. A 50" Panny 8UK with an external processor is tempting. It's possible that the Hitachi 55" HDX62 would be a good choice, but I haven't seen it yet. It supposedly uses Panny/Fujitsu glass, its own electronics, and is largely set up like a Pioneer. I did spend about an hour today in a boutique shop that had the 55" HDX61 in a dedicated theatre room. It was completely dark with comfortable chairs at about 15 feet. Fed by Moto 6412 HD cable box and McIntosh DVD player by component. Both dedicated to the display with no splitters. I wasn't overly impressed. It was definitely a "good" picture, but not as sharp as I would have liked and with decent blacks but poor dark detail. My 1130 does better both in black level and detail. About the same in overall PQ otherwise. This was with me having the remote to work with settings all by my lonesome as the store wasn't busy and the salesman left the room after about 10 minutes. Reports are, however, that the HDX62 is significantly better.

So I will stay ambivalent and looking until I change displays or my 30 day return period runs out. I want to emphasize, particularly since many read these threads also trying to decide, that these differences are very subtle. The Pioneer is excellent. I am obsessive, and I have to be satisfied that there isn't a better choice before I will relax. That, plus the $6K expenditure contributes to me making sure I am getting the absolute best for my money.

Hey Peter,

Could you do me a favor?

I was playing with the ADV pure cinema mode last night with HD channels and did not notice any issues that I saw in older gens (brightness shifts, etc). Could you set yours to ADV and see if you detect anything different? I really want to know if Pioneer fixed the conversion of 60hz to 72hz issue with the 6Gs. Thanks in advance.

Let me add to what Peter is saying.

Peter has the same illness that the rest of us here have. We're constantly obsessing to the point of insanity. I've done it with something as stupid as flashlights. Yes, I spent 3 months researching flashlights :eek:. So Peter's case is mild compared to mine. And you can end up ruining the enjoyment of the toy.

I have owned a Panny 42" ED for a year now, a Pioneer 5050 for 6 months, and a 4360 for about 2 weeks. I also had a Hitachi HD42S in my bedroom for a month before I returned it for the Pioneer. My wife thought the Hitachi was fine by the way. We watch the Panny in the exercise room, the 5050 in the theater and the 4360 in the bedroom. So I'm no fanboy of any brand. The Phillips and Samsungs don't really compete in my book. Fujitsu makes great displays, but no one within an hour or two of me stocks them, and I live in a city of 250k people, so I'm not sure who they're marketing to.

I personally prefer the colors of the Pioneer, the lack of noise in the Panny picture, and the bezel aesthetics and media receiver of the Pioneer. If Panasonic made a nice black bezeled model with a comparable feature set, that would be a tough call.

As for differences from the 5050 to the 4360, I can't honestly say I see a huge difference. The 4360 certainly doesn't make any audible buzz (my 5050 makes a very faint buzz that only I can hear--my wife and friends think I'm nuts--and the Hitachi not only buzzed MUCH louder, but had fan noise coming from the back of the panel). I purposely decided NOT to put the 4360 and 5050 side by side to compare them. My thought was that any difference worth talking about should be able to be noticed from memory, otherwise, it's not really worth talking about is it?

Blacks look great on the 4360. I don't see the noise and "judder" that others here talk about in the Pioneers. I think my Panny 42pd25u has a rock solid picture and is a fine display. But the colors are more muted, to some people that equates to natural. If you're a vibrant color person, the Pioneers excel. If you're a more natural muted color person, then the Panny excels.

To me, if I were giving advice on which display to buy right now, I'd say to base your decision on the colors, inputs, media receiver, and bezel aesthetics and decide between Panasonic and Pioneer. I think the Panasonic is the better value if you don't mind the bezel and input setup. I simply prefer the Pioneer today. I really hope Panasonic does a nice job with their bezel aesthetics on the new 65". I would think most HT nuts would not prefer a silver bezel when you're trying to be immersed in a dark movie. The silver bezel always picks up the reflections from the screen. (of course here I'm talking about the consumer Pannys)

I really hope Panasonic does a nice job with their bezel aesthetics on the new 65". I would think most HT nuts would not prefer a silver bezel when you're trying to be immersed in a dark movie. The silver bezel always picks up the reflections from the screen. (of course here I'm talking about the consumer Pannys)

The Panasonic I have (latest 50 inch consumer model), has a a black bezel around the picture itself (just silver on the bottom speaker portion). This is the
TH-50px50u (as well as the 42 and 37 inch models of that line).

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/374132.jpg

http://www.jr.com/Templates/HiRes/JR_HiRes.tem?HRIPath=PANTH50PX50U%2EPNG&HRTitle=PANASONIC+50+Inch+Widescreen+Plasma+TV+TH%2D50PX50U

I definitely liked the thinner black bezel on the Pioneer and the removable speakers -- but not for the additional $2,000.00.

caesar1, I'm pretty familiar with how the plasmas look, thanks. The difference in price I paid between the 4360 and the 42PX500u wasn't anywhere close to $2000. It was actually about $500, and that's getting the Panny from a less than reliable source at rock bottom price. The price difference on the 50" models was about $800, again from a rock bottom source on the Panny. Some may still not find the difference worth it. But I did.

Thanks Peter & Jackson.

Realted to caesars post - interesting that you post that model. I was in BB yesterday and saw the new Pio5060 right next to that Panny 50u.

They both looked great, though it killed me that the Pio had occasional noise, and the Panny didnt. It was a HD feed, and it seems to happen during cut scenses. I would notice a 1/2 second pixelation type thing and then it would snap clear. On the Panny I never saw that.

Also colors seem to be set a little better on the Panny, though I chalk that up to settings. Blacks were a bit better on the Pio. Pio black finish and speakers are much nicer.

I walked out thinking about buying the Panny 50u (or finding a slightly better 500u somewhere). Then again, when do the next model Pannys come out?

Hey Peter,

Could you do me a favor?

I was playing with the ADV pure cinema mode last night with HD channels and did not notice any issues that I saw in older gens (brightness shifts, etc). Could you set yours to ADV and see if you detect anything different? I really want to know if Pioneer fixed the conversion of 60hz to 72hz issue with the 6Gs. Thanks in advance.
Already done it! :D Another poster in another thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=597174) asked a similar question, so I check it out. Advanced sometimes seems to make motion smoothness suffer so I don't use it, but I do not see any flickering or black changes. If there is a specific test to try to evoke the problem, I would try it.

Let me add to what Peter is saying.

Peter has the same illness that the rest of us here have. We're constantly obsessing to the point of insanity. I've done it with something as stupid as flashlights. Yes, I spent 3 months researching flashlights :eek:. So Peter's case is mild compared to mine. And you can end up ruining the enjoyment of the toy.
Hey! I resemble that remark!

And my obsessiveness is much worse than yours Jacksonian. I know, I've measured it. And using a verrry precise instrument I might add.

Seriously..... nice post. This "illness" sometimes gets in the way of enjoyment for me at this stage, but I will relax with it once I am committed. Even if I was forced to keep the Pio right now, before the end of 30 days, I would be very happy with it after a week or two of adjustment and medication.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_42.gif

Hi Folks,
From reading the manual it looked like I could plug in both component and S-Video into the same input (I forget which one has both). The 1130 should select the better source. I was hoping to run both S and Component from my receiver so I could switch input only on the receiver, and the 1130 would "do the right thing". What I found was that if I selected an S-Video input on the receiver, the screen would stay dark. It seems that simply connecting the component cable causes that input to be selected.

Is there anyway to get the 1130 to autoselect inputs based on signal presence?

-Drew

Thanks Peter & Jackson.

Realted to caesars post - interesting that you post that model. I was in BB yesterday and saw the new Pio5060 right next to that Panny 50u.

They both looked great, though it killed me that the Pio had occasional noise, and the Panny didnt. It was a HD feed, and it seems to happen during cut scenses. I would notice a 1/2 second pixelation type thing and then it would snap clear. On the Panny I never saw that.

Also colors seem to be set a little better on the Panny, though I chalk that up to settings. Blacks were a bit better on the Pio. Pio black finish and speakers are much nicer.

I walked out thinking about buying the Panny 50u (or finding a slightly better 500u somewhere). Then again, when do the next model Pannys come out?

Well all I can say is I have had the 50u for 5 days now -- and I still find myself late to work each morning, because I am transfixed by the HD on this -- and find it hard to leave. And via cable card, I find the plain (non-HD) digital channels to be better than I imagined.

I too saw it next to the Pio 5060 at Best Buy, but didn't see enough to justify the much higher price for the Pio. I could have probably got close to $1,000.00 difference, but the actual asking prices were closer to $2,000.00 apart.

Then again, if these were the same price -- I would have went with the Pio for the better bezel aestetics and the extra inputs.

Well I finally finally made the jump and bought the pio 5060 today. I have been sitting on the fence for a long while now and finally just made the plunge. I should get it on friday and right now I am sort of in a shock/coma. My wife never thought I would make a decision and just buy one already.

I have been bothered by fan noise on my 930 since I got it. The noise is a noticeable ~500 hz hum coming from the media box which is audible even when watching programs at normal volume.

I took the media box back to the store yesterday, they listened to it and are going to swap it for a new media box.

I would be grateful if anyone can answer this question: when these sets are calibrated, do they setup the media box to match the individual characteristics of the panel itself, in which case I should get a new panel+mediabox pair, or is the calibration entirely within the panel?

The panel also has a bit of the "dontwatchskiingprograms" buzz which is much reduced by setting the power to Save1, but I think this is normal.

Any ideas?

Julian

Well I finally finally made the jump and bought the pio 5060 today. I have been sitting on the fence for a long while now and finally just made the plunge. I should get it on friday and right now I am sort of in a shock/coma. My wife never thought I would make a decision and just buy one already.

Congrats. When you get it tune to ESPN HD and watch sportscenter. The colors will astound you. I refuse to watch anything other than the HD channels as they look soooo good.

I have been bothered by fan noise on my 930 since I got it. The noise is a noticeable ~500 hz hum coming from the media box which is audible even when watching programs at normal volume.

I took the media box back to the store yesterday, they listened to it and are going to swap it for a new media box.

I would be grateful if anyone can answer this question: when these sets are calibrated, do they setup the media box to match the individual characteristics of the panel itself, in which case I should get a new panel+mediabox pair, or is the calibration entirely within the panel?

The panel also has a bit of the "dontwatchskiingprograms" buzz which is much reduced by setting the power to Save1, but I think this is normal.

Any ideas?

JulianYou can exchange the media box; it's not specially matched to the panel. In fact, the same media box is used for the 43 and 50 inch models.

You could consider turning off the fans in the service menu. I tried it briefly, and the box didn't seem to get very warm. From what I've read, the heat is more of a concern if you're using a CableCard (which I am now), so I turned the fans back on.

The panel buzz with bright scenes is also normal, although it can vary a bit from one panel to another. I haven't found it at all objectionable.

You can exchange the media box; it's not specially matched to the panel.

So does this mean that you can plug the 1130's media box into a 5060 and have it work?

Jvinsepa, yes, some members here have reported actually receiving the wrong media box from the factory and it worked just fine. As a matter of fact, since the panels themselves seem to be identical in the 1130 and the 5060 (with the only differences being in the electronics in the media receiver), if you pair an 1130 media receiver with a 5060 panel, you basically have an 1130.

I've also noticed that the panel for both 1130 and 5060 is marked 506PU.

I've also noticed that the panel for both 1130 and 5060 is marked 506PU.
Not surprising. The major differences are in the electronics with the MR different.

Jvinsepa, yes, some members here have reported actually receiving the wrong media box from the factory and it worked just fine. As a matter of fact, since the panels themselves seem to be identical in the 1130 and the 5060 (with the only differences being in the electronics in the media receiver), if you pair an 1130 media receiver with a 5060 panel, you basically have an 1130.

I'm one of those lucky people that received an Elite MR with my non-Elite order. I ordered the 5050 and received the 1120 MR with it. It has all the functionality of the 1120 Elite. All I'm missing is that pretty little Elite logo on the front of my panel and the all black stand (since I don't have it mounted to the wall).

I heard the "white scene" panel buzz the first few nights, but haven't heard it again these past 2 weeks. I haven't specifically looked for it, but I don't recall ever hearing it again after first 4 or 5 days. My wife noticed it and pointed it out the first couple of nights, but she has made no mention since, so I'm ready to declare victory on that front. Not sure what changed to make it go away??? I've never heard anywhere that this issue goes away through normal break-in, but I'll count my lucky stars anyway.

T2Starr, I second your comments. I've noticed that I've changed my viewing habits - I'm watching a heck of a lot more PBS and HD channels (ESPN2, Discovery, HD Net Movies) now. I used to spend lots of time viewing other DirecTV channels, but I rarely go there any longer - only after I've exhausted all HDTV programming possibilities first. The HDTV images are so much better than SDTV, that it's difficult to go back to the standard stuff.

I have a S77 hooked up to my 1120. I really don't notice much in the way of picture quality difference between 480p, 720p, and 1080i. I attributed that to the 1120's good scaling capability, $200 didn't seem too bad to hold me over until HD-DVD becomes more affordable (compared to $800 or whatever the top Pio player cost at the time).

Nuzy

Actually the deinterlacing functions of the DVD player chipset surpass those of the display and thats what you are seeing to a large extent at 480P. You can test this by turning off the progressive function on the DVD player and observing the difference at 480i instead of 480p video signal output. AS a progressive display, the Pio also has a deinterlacing chip that isn't as good. You could actually test this at 480/720/1080 just to differentiate effects of upscaling vs deinterlacing--might be interesting.

Actually the deinterlacing functions of the DVD player chipset surpass those of the display and thats what you are seeing to a large extent at 480P. You can test this by turning off the progressive function on the DVD player and observing the difference at 480i instead of 480p video signal output. AS a progressive display, the Pio also has a deinterlacing chip that isn't as good. You could actually test this at 480/720/1080 just to differentiate effects of upscaling vs deinterlacing--might be interesting.
If I knew how to turn off the "progressive function" of the S77 I would try it, but I don't know how. I don't want to get off thread topic too much so if anyone knows how to do it and wants to PM me, feel free.

Thanks,
Nuzy

I had to have the power shut down to portions of my house for some electrical work being done. The outlet that my 1130 was plugged into was affected. When the power was returned and the 1130 used for the first time since power was removed from it I was surprised to find that the entries made to the user A/V mode of input 1 were all reset to default. I made no other entries in any other A/V modes or inputs so they were still at default settings.

I find this a little aggravating to make all these adjustments and have them disappear when the power is removed. Now the question I have is if I spend the money for the ISF C3 calibration what happens to it when the power is removed from the 1130? Regular ISF calibrations would be made in the user A/V mode and they can be lost so what about C3 calibration?

Sorry If this has already been covered (I stopped reading after about 14 pages)... but I just got the Elite 43".... Can someone please list their settings for me to use just as a starting point.

Thanks in advance.

Lhamp, go to page 22 of this thread. D-Nice provides some settings for a 930 on that page.

Bingo... thanks Rub

I had to have the power shut down to portions of my house for some electrical work being done. The outlet that my 1130 was plugged into was affected. When the power was returned and the 1130 used for the first time since power was removed from it I was surprised to find that the entries made to the user A/V mode of input 1 were all reset to default. I made no other entries in any other A/V modes or inputs so they were still at default settings.

I find this a little aggravating to make all these adjustments and have them disappear when the power is removed. Now the question I have is if I spend the money for the ISF C3 calibration what happens to it when the power is removed from the 1130? Regular ISF calibrations would be made in the user A/V mode and they can be lost so what about C3 calibration?

I was under the impression that when you have an ISF calibration the new defaults for the TV are in fact the settings the ISF technician performed; i.e. if you hit the reset button, or if you have a power outage, the TV will return to the ISF settings. Someone whose had an ISF calibration done recently may have more info.
Bish

I discovered that the key sequence for entering the service menu on past models also works on this one (although it took me about five tries--glad I didn't give up). I didn't change any settings in there, though, mostly out of fear.


I tried the posted sequence below many many times and I just can't get it to work.
Start with the plasma turned OFF.
Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold).
Wait 3 seconds.
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER (on the remote).


Is this sequence correct and are all the presses seperate and not together, is it all with the remote or is some with the mc?

eelton said he had to do this several times, I wonder why it's so unreliable?
Help appreciated.

I know this was covered earlier, but I wanted to bring it up again as I've just set up my 930.

When using the hdmi connection, there is a very annoying lag when switching from an HD to a non HD channel (or vice versa)... during this time, the picture goes from black to either static or some scrambled form of the screen.

I don't know about you guys, but I find this incredibly annoying... so much so, that I've decided to use the component connection. Bottom line, I don't find the HDMI picture to be that much better to warrent the aggaivation the switching glitch causes me.

Just wanted to know if everyone was experiencing the same thing.

I know this was covered earlier, but I wanted to bring it up again as I've just set up my 930.

When using the hdmi connection, there is a very annoying lag when switching from an HD to a non HD channel (or vice versa)... during this time, the picture goes from black to either static or some scrambled form of the screen.

I don't know about you guys, but I find this incredibly annoying... so much so, that I've decided to use the component connection. Bottom line, I don't find the HDMI picture to be that much better to warrent the aggaivation the switching glitch causes me.

Just wanted to know if everyone was experiencing the same thing.


Yep, just the way HDMI works. Another solution would be to set your STB to one output...720p or 1080i.

Yep, just the way HDMI works. Another solution would be to set your STB to one output...720p or 1080i.


Not a bad idea at all.

I ordered my 5060 on wed, and got it on friday. I ordered through Satellite & Sound, Inc and they were very good to deal with. The crate was delivered by Seko and it arrived in great condition. Let me start off by saying i am by no means an expert, I barely know the difference between component and svideo. I kept warning my wife that regular cable might look like crap and don't worry we will be ordering HD soon. ANyway we plugged it all in and wow, just wow. It looks great even with regular cable. My wife looked at me like I was crazy and said, "This looks way better then are old tv." We watched CHicken Run last night, with our 3 year old and wow, again. I just can't believe this tv looks this great. Also it is very very big. WHy didn't it look this big in the store, hehe. ANyway I am interested in wall mounting it now. Has anyone had any luck with the Sanus mount? Sears has a very good deal on it right now and I am wondering if that is an ok one. If you want to take a look, go to sears then search for sanus, should be the first thing that comes up.

For those of you sitting on the fence like I was for so long I can only say, What the heck are you waiting for. This tv is fantastic.

I've been reading this thread ever since inception and reading all posts from what it seems like many happy owners. I've been patient on pulling the trigger as this is my first plasma and will be for quite sometime so I wanted to be abcolutely certain.

All I can say is that I'm NOW anxiously waiting my very own PDP-5060! I purchased this set at Future Shop here in Canada, comparable to a Best Buy. I got a great deal off MSRP, which is 6999 CAD, so it was a no brainer to buy from there.

I should add that the Canadian sets DO NOT come with a stand or speakers. I had to pay extra for the stand which goes for $299 CAD MSRP. Don't know the price of the speakers as I will be using my 5.1 set.

Anyways I think I'm going to order the Elite stand instead and return the stand I got raped on!

I have delivery set for Tuesday, can't wait!!!

scanido:

Congrats on the new plasma. I'm amazed at how much prices have dropped over the last few years. I hate to tell you how much my 503CMX cost 3 1/2 years ago.

BTW: Best Buy owns Future Shop, so there's really little difference between them. I like shopping online at Future Shop. They have free shipping for almost anything.

Enjoy!

Excellent, thankyou.

I swapped my media box for a new one yesterday (attitude at the store varied from "sure we can do that" from the guy I have been dealing with to "all the boxes make some fan noise, but oh whatever" from the manager). The old box made a persistent 500Hz hum which because of the frequency was very hard to dissipate or block and was always there. The new box makes a slight rushing noise (the kind of noise you expect from a fan) which is much quieter and less persistent, and easy to block.

My conclusion is that while all media boxes make some noise, there is probably considerable variance and if it bothers you, change it, as I did.

Julian

I have a 4360 and I can't hear the media box at all, and I'm very sensitive to noises. I also don't hear any buzz from the panel itself like I do from my 5050.

Hello folks,

I just set up my 1130HD today. I'm using a Cable Card I purchased from my Cable Company 2 weeks ago. The only external equipment I'm using with the system is a DVD player that seems to work fine. HOWEVER, I'm not getting any of the HD channels that the Cable Card is supposed to give me. Do I have to call the cable company to have it activated? The display recognizes the cable card info so I'm pretty sure I installed in correctly.

Thanks in advance for an info. Jim

Any reason why the Channel +/- on my Plasma remote doesn't work. I have to enter the channel I want to view by pressing the individual numbers. I'm using a Cable Card which according to the manual I cannot execute Auto Channel Pre Set. Thanks, Jim

My wife started my quest for a new TV by suggesting we move our 27" CRT up to the kids' family room because the 19"CRT up there is on its last legs. That was 3 months ago, and during that 3 months I've finally decided:

-it'll definitely be a 50" vs. 42"
-I don't care for the looks of the 50u, or it would be on my wall already, because of th rave reviews it gets. Since the HP 50" is basically a Panny, I'm looking very closely at it, because its bezel is all black and it seems to offer quite a bit in the way of features and price.
-I've ruled out any silver bezels and most other models except for the Pios and Pannys.

I'd love to do what you did and go ahead and get the 5060. I love the aesthtics and the media center. My wife is now saying things like "just buy one already", whearas before she was real concerned with what it looked like and how much it cost! I've pretty much wore her down with my indecision!

My reluctance on the 5060 are things I've read and observations I've made regarding PQ. I REALLY want this display to handle SD material well. We only have 2 local HD channels so far, and a lot of the Dish content we watch isn't going to be HD for some time. The few times I've seen the 5060, I actually noticed "jaggies" on graphics and text elements that I didn't see quite as prominently on the adjacent 50" plasmas. I was standing at a distance of about 8 or 9 feet. One of those was a new Zenith model (priced at a full 2k less!!) and those elements looked much "smoother", een when I got just a few feet away. Is the Pio scaler or deinterlacer inferior to other sets? Or could it be that the Pios at BB are set improperly to the point of making its PQ less than it actually can be? Maybe they have the sharpness cranked or something?

Because my other two options are pretty good also (the HP, and the 8UK) I really want to believe that the Pio is the best way to go before getting it.

Thanks,
Rod W.


Well I finally finally made the jump and bought the pio 5060 today. I have been sitting on the fence for a long while now and finally just made the plunge. I should get it on friday and right now I am sort of in a shock/coma. My wife never thought I would make a decision and just buy one already.

Hello folks,

I just set up my 1130HD today. I'm using a Cable Card I purchased from my Cable Company 2 weeks ago. The only external equipment I'm using with the system is a DVD player that seems to work fine. HOWEVER, I'm not getting any of the HD channels that the Cable Card is supposed to give me. Do I have to call the cable company to have it activated? The display recognizes the cable card info so I'm pretty sure I installed in correctly.

Thanks in advance for an info. Jim

You need to contact your cable co.

Any reason why the Channel +/- on my Plasma remote doesn't work. I have to enter the channel I want to view by pressing the individual numbers. I'm using a Cable Card which according to the manual I cannot execute Auto Channel Pre Set. Thanks, Jim

again, contact your cable co. your card is not activated.

My wife started my quest for a new TV by suggesting we move our 27" CRT up to the kids' family room because the 19"CRT up there is on its last legs. That was 3 months ago, and during that 3 months I've finally decided:

-it'll definitely be a 50" vs. 42"
-I don't care for the looks of the 50u, or it would be on my wall already, because of th rave reviews it gets. Since the HP 50" is basically a Panny, I'm looking very closely at it, because its bezel is all black and it seems to offer quite a bit in the way of features and price.
-I've ruled out any silver bezels and most other models except for the Pios and Pannys.

I'd love to do what you did and go ahead and get the 5060. I love the aesthtics and the media center. My wife is now saying things like "just buy one already", whearas before she was real concerned with what it looked like and how much it cost! I've pretty much wore her down with my indecision!

My reluctance on the 5060 are things I've read and observations I've made regarding PQ. I REALLY want this display to handle SD material well. We only have 2 local HD channels so far, and a lot of the Dish content we watch isn't going to be HD for some time. The few times I've seen the 5060, I actually noticed "jaggies" on graphics and text elements that I didn't see quite as prominently on the adjacent 50" plasmas. I was standing at a distance of about 8 or 9 feet. One of those was a new Zenith model (priced at a full 2k less!!) and those elements looked much "smoother", een when I got just a few feet away. Is the Pio scaler or deinterlacer inferior to other sets? Or could it be that the Pios at BB are set improperly to the point of making its PQ less than it actually can be? Maybe they have the sharpness cranked or something?

Because my other two options are pretty good also (the HP, and the 8UK) I really want to believe that the Pio is the best way to go before getting it.

Thanks,
Rod W.

Your local BB probably had it set to Vivid. Ask for the remote and dial in your own settings.

Earlier there was a discussion regarding the 1130 digital outputs being defeated when using the HDMI input.

Did anyone figure out if this can be changed or are the digital outs not an option when using the HDMI input.

Thanks

John

My reluctance on the 5060 are things I've read and observations I've made regarding PQ. I REALLY want this display to handle SD material well. We only have 2 local HD channels so far, and a lot of the Dish content we watch isn't going to be HD for some time.


Rod,

All the while I was setting up the 5060 I kept telling my wife, "Remember it won't look that good with sd stuff, you have to be prepared for that." I must have said it 12 times, after I hooked it up and cable was coming through she said, "I thought you said it was going to look bad, this is better then our old tv.(a crt) So is sd crystal clear and have a wow factor, no, but sd did suprise the heck out of me and my wife.

My reluctance on the 5060 are things I've read and observations I've made regarding PQ. I REALLY want this display to handle SD material well. We only have 2 local HD channels so far, and a lot of the Dish content we watch isn't going to be HD for some time. The few times I've seen the 5060, I actually noticed "jaggies" on graphics and text elements that I didn't see quite as prominently on the adjacent 50" plasmas. I was standing at a distance of about 8 or 9 feet. One of those was a new Zenith model (priced at a full 2k less!!) and those elements looked much "smoother", een when I got just a few feet away. Is the Pio scaler or deinterlacer inferior to other sets? Or could it be that the Pios at BB are set improperly to the point of making its PQ less than it actually can be? Maybe they have the sharpness cranked or something?

It is very difficult to evaluate at the store no matter what. The best shot you have is if you can get the remotes for both sets to make settings more reasonable and realistic. Even better if you can control the source.

I may be the one in this thread with the most PQ ambivalence with the Pio. But I have no question about the superiority of the Pio over the Panny for SD (my concerns were more on HD cable material and with motion). This for overall SD PQ and for better stretch mode (cinema) for viewing 4:3 full screen (others may disagree.... this is my opinion). I had the Pio 1130 next to the Panny PX500 at Magnolia with an OTA SD channel and both remotes in my hand.

It is very difficult to evaluate at the store no matter what. The best shot you have is if you can get the remotes for both sets to make settings more reasonable and realistic. Even better if you can control the source.

It is very difficult for me to evaluate at the store, because I know I can get the Pio from Pioneer's authorized online vendors for significantly less than BB...so, since I know I'm not going to buy it there, I just don't feel right asking them to go out of their way to help me evaluate the display.

As D-Nice pointed out the BB might have the panel set to Vivid. Does Vivid crank up the sharpness to reveal the "jaggies"?

I may be the one in this thread with the most PQ ambivalence with the Pio. But I have no question about the superiority of the Pio over the Panny for SD (my concerns were more on HD cable material and with motion). This for overall SD PQ and for better stretch mode (cinema) for viewing 4:3 full screen (others may disagree.... this is my opinion). I had the Pio 1130 next to the Panny PX500 at Magnolia with an OTA SD channel and both remotes in my hand.

Then thanks to those in this forum who have responded to my post and others, I've fianlly decided the Pio is the way to go for me! I was leaning that direction due to the Media Center and the "aesthetics" but kept hearing how good the Panny is. But it sounds like combined with the stretch mode and the fact that the Pio quite possibly does a better job of scaleing SD material, I'm going to stop my perpetual indecision and pull the trigger on a Pio. Now comes the "fun" part: 5060 or 1130? And who "gets the sale"? Let the "dealing" begin!

Thanks All!

Rod W.

I may be the one in this thread with the most PQ ambivalence with the Pio. But I have no question about the superiority of the Pio over the Panny for SD (my concerns were more on HD cable material and with motion). This for overall SD PQ and for better stretch mode (cinema) for viewing 4:3 full screen (others may disagree.... this is my opinion). I had the Pio 1130 next to the Panny PX500 at Magnolia with an OTA SD channel and both remotes in my hand.

Is it true that the 5060/1130 can stretch a 4:3 HD signal?

Has anyone else compared SD on the 5060/1130 to the 8UK? Thoughts?

Has anyone done 1-1 pixel mapping w/ 5060/1130 using a scaler? If so, which one?

Is it true that the 5060/1130 can stretch a 4:3 HD signal?
Yes, but not cinema mode. You can use wide, full, zoom.

I have been battling between getting the 5060 (or 1130), or going with the Panny 50U or 500U.


My main concerns with the 5060 are that there is a little more noise on it with HD channels; and of the two I have seen setup (BB and JR Music in NYC), both looked overly "Yellow" to me.

I got a chance to play with the remote on the 5060 at JR today, and took it from Dynamic to Standard - didnt help. And then turned off Vivid - didnt help. Still yellowish. I turned down tint\color - still yellowish.

Anyone else notice this on the 5060? I keep hearing from the stores "this is straight out of the box settings".

I'm going to stop my perpetual indecision and pull the trigger on a Pio. Now comes the "fun" part: 5060 or 1130? And who "gets the sale"? Let the "dealing" begin!

Thanks All!

Rod W.

Well, if you made a decision in 10 posts or less - you are quicker than most. :)

I have been battling between getting the 5060 (or 1130), or going with the Panny 50U or 500U.


My main concerns with the 5060 are that there is a little more noise on it with HD channels; and of the two I have seen setup (BB and JR Music in NYC), both looked overly "Yellow" to me.

I got a chance to play with the remote on the 5060 at JR today, and took it from Dynamic to Standard - didnt help. And then turned off Vivid - didnt help. Still yellowish. I turned down tint\color - still yellowish.

Anyone else notice this on the 5060? I keep hearing from the stores "this is straight out of the box settings".


You are the first to post that Pioneer has too much yellow. Never saw that on any visit to BB.

I'm going to stop my perpetual indecision and pull the trigger on a Pio. Now comes the "fun" part: 5060 or 1130? And who "gets the sale"? Let the "dealing" begin!

Thanks All!

Rod W.

If you can afford it, go for the 1130. You can do some amazing things with the additional picture controls.

I've been reading all the comments on this thread with regards to the 5060, and I am glad that I have ordered it [PDP-5060HD], due to arrive on Friday. This thread has been a tremendous source of learning, and I thank all. My question is regarding the setting up of my 5060 with other components, such as the DVD player, Yamaha A/V Receiver [Dolby 5.1 with sub woofer] and Cable box. Could anyone tell me how I hook this all up together to the Pioneer media receiver ?. I.E. The order in hierarchy. My Adelphia cable box has all sorts of out and in puts, including HMDI, composite etc. My A/V has most of all these in and outputs except for HMDI, but does have the optical. My DVD has also all, except for HMDI. My question is on the order in which I hook up the components to the media receiver. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks BEN

I would like to share my settings that I am using from a TWC SA 8300 cable box via HDMI. Please let me know what you think....

Main Menu:
AV Selection: User
Contrast: 25
Brightness: -3
Color: -16
Tint: -2
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Standard
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High: -2
G High: -3
B High: -2
R Low: -2
G Low: -3
B Low: -1
CTI: Off
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: -7
G: 0
C: +6
B: 0
M: -1
NR:
DNR: Low
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

Model PDP-50A5HD. 5th Gen glass. Based off the 5050.

I've been reading this forum for a while now, and this is my first post. I've learned more in this forum than in any stores I've been in. Finally ready to get my first plasma. Like many in this thread, I have it narrowed down to the 5060 and the Panny 500U. Both of course are amazing in HD, but I personally like the 5060 a bit better. To me however the HD difference is not enough to justify the extra cost of the pio. The key to my decision will be SD, which I'll still be watching at least 50% of the time. Tonight was the first time I saw them side by side showing SD, and I was very surprised at how much better the 5060 looked. From 15 feet it was somewhat noticable, but the closer I got, the bigger the difference. I thought the 2 were pretty similar until I saw them beside each other. Any other opinions on this? I don't know how they were set up, but I suspect the set up had something do with the difference.

I also have a question burn in. While I might get used to stretch modes, for now I prefer grey bars. Regardless of what I buy, I'll use the full screen for at least the first 100-200 hours, but unless I get used to the stretch, I would prefer to watch SD mainly with the grey bars after a few hundred hours. From what I have heard, the 5060 does not have the image shifting like the Panny's. Does this make a very big difference? Are the Pioneers more susceptible to burn in the the Panny's? While I won't abuse the set, I don't want to be too worried or baby it too much.

To fully enjoy how great either of these sets will look, I am going to get it ISF calibrated. This should help avoid the burn in I am still obviously concerned about.

Finally, I think I read somewhere that you can save setting on different inputs on the 5060, whereas you can't do that on the Panny. Is that right? Thanks for your comments.

I would like to share my settings that I am using from a TWC SA 8300 cable box via HDMI. Please let me know what you think....

I'm going to counter with some radical settings. Curious if anyone else thinks this approach has merit. I discovered "Pure" does allow changes in settings, and I tend to like the look. Removes some of that "over-processed" impression I had. There is a slight cost to black level. The same settings with brightness at +4 and color at -14 work pretty well too.

I also see that you are setting Gamma to 3 also. That was a major discovery for me in terms of revealing detail.

I think we are pretty close actually, with the exception of my not changing color at all (except saturation).

Main Menu:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 25
Brightness: +2
Color: -4
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Standard
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Mid-High
CTI: Off
Color Management: All 0
NR:
DNR: High
MPEG NR: Off
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

I'm going to counter with some radical settings. Curious if anyone else thinks this approach has merit. I discovered "Pure" does allow changes in settings, and I tend to like the look. Removes some of that "over-processed" impression I had. There is a slight cost to black level. The same settings with brightness at +4 and color at -14 work pretty well too.

I also see that you are setting Gamma to 3 also. That was a major discovery for me in terms of revealing detail.

I think we are pretty close actually, with the exception of my not changing color at all (except saturation).

Main Menu:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 25
Brightness: +2
Color: -4
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Standard
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Mid-High
CTI: Off
Color Management: All 0
NR:
DNR: High
MPEG NR: Off
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

I was playing with Pure mode also. The settings I posted are very close to what pure mode offers but takes the green tinge out of the blacks. I'll try your Pure mode settings tonight.

I've been reading this forum for a while now, and this is my first post. I've learned more in this forum than in any stores I've been in. Finally ready to get my first plasma. Like many in this thread, I have it narrowed down to the 5060 and the Panny 500U. Both of course are amazing in HD, but I personally like the 5060 a bit better. To me however the HD difference is not enough to justify the extra cost of the pio. The key to my decision will be SD, which I'll still be watching at least 50% of the time. Tonight was the first time I saw them side by side showing SD, and I was very surprised at how much better the 5060 looked. From 15 feet it was somewhat noticable, but the closer I got, the bigger the difference. I thought the 2 were pretty similar until I saw them beside each other. Any other opinions on this? I don't know how they were set up, but I suspect the set up had something do with the difference.

The Pioneer renders SD very well. I don't think you will be disappointed if you do get it.



I also have a question burn in. While I might get used to stretch modes, for now I prefer grey bars. Regardless of what I buy, I'll use the full screen for at least the first 100-200 hours, but unless I get used to the stretch, I would prefer to watch SD mainly with the grey bars after a few hundred hours. From what I have heard, the 5060 does not have the image shifting like the Panny's. Does this make a very big difference? Are the Pioneers more susceptible to burn in the the Panny's? While I won't abuse the set, I don't want to be too worried or baby it too much.

I have not found any image retention or burnin problems during or after the break in period. The 6Gs are actually better in the image retention department compared to the previous 5Gs.

Finally, I think I read somewhere that you can save setting on different inputs on the 5060, whereas you can't do that on the Panny. Is that right? Thanks for your comments

Yes that is true. That is the main thing I hate about the Pannys. It really shows how corner cutting/el cheapo they were when they decided not to include that feature. Hope they add it in their next gen.

pstrisik,

Not so sure anymore????

I've been reading this forum for a while now, and this is my first post. I've learned more in this forum than in any stores I've been in. Finally ready to get my first plasma. Like many in this thread, I have it narrowed down to the 5060 and the Panny 500U. Both of course are amazing in HD, but I personally like the 5060 a bit better. To me however the HD difference is not enough to justify the extra cost of the pio. The key to my decision will be SD, which I'll still be watching at least 50% of the time. Tonight was the first time I saw them side by side showing SD, and I was very surprised at how much better the 5060 looked. From 15 feet it was somewhat noticable, but the closer I got, the bigger the difference. I thought the 2 were pretty similar until I saw them beside each other. Any other opinions on this? I don't know how they were set up, but I suspect the set up had something do with the difference.

I also have a question burn in. While I might get used to stretch modes, for now I prefer grey bars. Regardless of what I buy, I'll use the full screen for at least the first 100-200 hours, but unless I get used to the stretch, I would prefer to watch SD mainly with the grey bars after a few hundred hours. From what I have heard, the 5060 does not have the image shifting like the Panny's. Does this make a very big difference? Are the Pioneers more susceptible to burn in the the Panny's? While I won't abuse the set, I don't want to be too worried or baby it too much.


I am in a similar position. Considering the Pio 5060 vs the Panny 50 HD8UK and SD is important. I'm wondering if I can get the 8UK with a decent scaler and still end up spending about the same for a 5060. If a scalar can help render a better HD and SD picture (with 1 to 1 pixel mapping to the 8UK) this may be the way to go.

I would like to share my settings that I am using from a TWC SA 8300 cable box via HDMI. Please let me know what you think....

Main Menu:
AV Selection: User
Contrast: 25
Brightness: -3
Color: -16
Tint: -2
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Standard
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High: -2
G High: -3
B High: -2
R Low: -2
G Low: -3
B Low: -1
CTI: Off
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: -7
G: 0
C: +6
B: 0
M: -1
NR:
DNR: Low
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1


I've got the same box so I'm eager to try your settings tonight... have you had a chance to look pstrisik's settings yet?

I was playing with Pure mode also. The settings I posted are very close to what pure mode offers but takes the green tinge out of the blacks. I'll try your Pure mode settings tonight.I'll try your settings to experiment, but I'm not seeing a green tinge with the 1130. This may be since I was coming from the 4312, which had a definite green case, so it seems much more neutral.

Not so sure anymore????

Good eye! ;) I think you know my thinking since we talked in the Video Processor forum. I've come to appreciate the Pio more and more, but that motion thing is getting the better of me. The combination of my sensitivity, the possibility of Pio being slightly less effective on the motion issue, and the 50" screen that magnifies my perception of the problem, has made me think it's not the best solution for me.

I'll try your settings to experiment, but I'm not seeing a green tinge with the 1130. This may be since I was coming from the 4312, which had a definite green case, so it seems much more neutral.

I didn't know that it was there either until I started playing with the RGB settings. I think all plasmas have it to a degree. Try those settings and compare it to the Low setting... you will see what I am talking about.

Good eye! ;) I think you know my thinking since we talked in the Video Processor forum. I've come to appreciate the Pio more and more, but that motion thing is getting the better of me. The combination of my sensitivity, the possibility of Pio being slightly less effective on the motion issue, and the 50" screen that magnifies my perception of the problem, has made me think it's not the best solution for me.

Yeah I forgot to edit my thread. We can continue that convo over there. Try the ADV setting for a few days. I'm going to do the same.

I've got the same box so I'm eager to try your settings tonight... have you had a chance to look pstrisik's settings yet?

Nope not yet. I will try them tonight.

Good eye! ;) I think you know my thinking since we talked in the Video Processor forum. I've come to appreciate the Pio more and more, but that motion thing is getting the better of me. The combination of my sensitivity, the possibility of Pio being slightly less effective on the motion issue, and the 50" screen that magnifies my perception of the problem, has made me think it's not the best solution for me.

What is on your shortlist of other possible solutions?

My settings are very similar to both of those posted above. I have been using PURE mode for HD/SD from the moto DVR.

The only significant differences I see in settings is I use "mid" or "low" DRE depending on the show, and always leave purecinema to "off" unless I need to turn it on. I watch lots of sports and have ticker problems with purecinema turned on in any way. Leaving it off solves that. I seem to notice a slight loss of detail with it on as well.

i havent noticed any ticker problems in hd, only sd

My settings are very similar to both of those posted above. I have been using PURE mode for HD/SD from the moto DVR.

The only significant differences I see in settings is I use "mid" or "low" DRE depending on the show, and always leave purecinema to "off" unless I need to turn it on. I watch lots of sports and have ticker problems with purecinema turned on in any way. Leaving it off solves that. I seem to notice a slight loss of detail with it on as well.
I forgot to say that my "PURE" settings are for cable only (moto 6412 over component at 1080i). I have settings on USER for DVD.

I didn't know that it was there either until I started playing with the RGB settings. I think all plasmas have it to a degree. Try those settings and compare it to the Low setting... you will see what I am talking about.

........

Yeah I forgot to edit my thread. We can continue that convo over there. Try the ADV setting for a few days. I'm going to do the same.
Will do both.

What is on your shortlist of other possible solutions?
Note that this is only to try to work around my apparent sensitivity to motion judder. The Pio is marvelous in all other respects for me.

Short list in current likely order:

1- Panny 42 or 50PHD8UK with the possibility of later adding a processor (like the DVDO VP30) to supply native resolution over DVI.

2- Move back down to a Pio 43" (930).

3- Get a widescreen HD CRT for cable tv and add a front projector and screen for movies.

My settings are very similar to both of those posted above. I have been using PURE mode for HD/SD from the moto DVR.

The only significant differences I see in settings is I use "mid" or "low" DRE depending on the show, and always leave purecinema to "off" unless I need to turn it on. I watch lots of sports and have ticker problems with purecinema turned on in any way. Leaving it off solves that. I seem to notice a slight loss of detail with it on as well.

i havent noticed any ticker problems in hd, only sd

Could you post your settings? I would like to try them out.

Could you post your settings? I would like to try them out.

sure, I'll do it tonight if I can pull myself away from the Boston/Philly game... (which is going to be awesome by the way ;))

Earlier there was a discussion regarding the 1130 digital outputs being defeated when using the HDMI input.

Did anyone figure out if this can be changed or are the digital outs not an option when using the HDMI input.

Thanks

John

John... I've had my 930 for only a few days now... but as far as I can tell HDMI overrides all other digital outs (ins?) when in use. Not sure this can be changed.

I read through pages and pages of the AVS Forum before making my first post! And I've read many more since. What a great resource! Thanks everyone!

Rod W.

Well, if you made a decision in 10 posts or less - you are quicker than most. :)

Note that this is only to try to work around my apparent sensitivity to motion judder. The Pio is marvelous in all other respects for me.

Short list in current likely order:
1- Panny 42 or 50PHD8UK with the possibility of later adding a processor (like the DVDO VP30) to supply native resolution over DVI.
2- Move back down to a Pio 43" (930).
3- Get a widescreen HD CRT for cable tv and add a front projector and screen for movies.

Wow. I guess the "better manufacturing process used on the Elite's" didn't cut it. Sorry, I saw you post that and I was actually hoping for the same thing - and it probably is true.

(3) is a dream, as you will fight the same battle finding the perfect screen and projector and throw distance, etc. I suggest you keep the Pio and you get a Pio43 for your bedroom. Best of both worlds. Wait 5 years, sell them both for whatever you can get and buy whatever is on the market - which will blow away anything we are looking at today.

Thanks for your comments D-Nice. I better get something soon before things get even more expensive for me. Over the past month, I have up-sold myself from the the Panny 50U, to the Panny 500U, and now the 5060. Another couple of weeks and it will be well, its not that much more money to get the Elite!

I wonder why Pioneer doesn't use the image shifter. After reading their White Paper, I suppose they think its not necessary and not worth the money it would cost them to incorporate it. Maybe I just don't know enough about image retention, but it would increase my comfort level if they had it. I have almost convinced myself to spend the extra money on Pioneer rather than Panasonic, but the lack of an orbiter is just nagging at me.

Wow. I guess the "better manufacturing process used on the Elite's" didn't cut it. Sorry, I saw you post that and I was actually hoping for the same thing - and it probably is true.
Maybe not in terms of the motion problem, but if I see it on the Fujitsu too, I'm sure it's not a quality control issue. If I was buying a Pio again, I would still opt for the Elite.

(3) is a dream, as you will fight the same battle finding the perfect screen and projector and throw distance, etc. I suggest you keep the Pio and you get a Pio43 for your bedroom. Best of both worlds. Wait 5 years, sell them both for whatever you can get and buy whatever is on the market - which will blow away anything we are looking at today.
Well, it is a hobby. I want to tinker, experiment, and improve. I just don't want a bothersome problem that is largely insurmountable. If I keep the Pio, I will just keep the Pio. No TV in the bedroom.

Unfortunately for my #1 option, I found out there is no authorized service center in Alaska for commercial Pannys. I have an email out to Panny service to see if it would be possible to have any warranty issues serviced by the authorized shop for the consumer line. Alternatively, I would have to try to buy a warranty that would cover from day one. Shipping to outside would cost way too much for service.

I was playing with Pure mode also. The settings I posted are very close to what pure mode offers but takes the green tinge out of the blacks. I'll try your Pure mode settings tonight.
Boy, either our eyes are very different or our sets are different. Your settings look overly red to me and too dark. I didn't see the green in the first place, so I think something may be different for us.

Hi all, I'm a newbie and just purchased a new 4360! I have a few questions. First, I have directTV, how I can get a directTV signal and OTA channels at the same time? Looks like there is only one coax port for digital connections. Also, everyone says 100 hours as a break-in period for a plasma. Does this mean any digital channel that has black bars on the side is not recommended? And xbox is not recommended during this time period too? Finally, anyone have any advice for getting the TV calibrated correctly? I'm definitely no videophile!

Thanks,
Nick

I'm going to counter with some radical settings. Curious if anyone else thinks this approach has merit. I discovered "Pure" does allow changes in settings, and I tend to like the look. Removes some of that "over-processed" impression I had. There is a slight cost to black level. The same settings with brightness at +4 and color at -14 work pretty well too.

I also see that you are setting Gamma to 3 also. That was a major discovery for me in terms of revealing detail.

I think we are pretty close actually, with the exception of my not changing color at all (except saturation).

Main Menu:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 25
Brightness: +2
Color: -4
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Standard
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Mid-High
CTI: Off
Color Management: All 0
NR:
DNR: High
MPEG NR: Off
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

Just out of curiousity... why do you consider these settings to be "radical"?

Hey gang,

Been out for a couple of weeks now. Wilma pretty much went right over the top and we lost Power, Water, Phone, and Internet. All is back and working again.

While we were without power for a week, we missed all our regular shows. I built an HTPC in order to download and watch them so we could catch up. I did find that watching the downloaded shows (and DVDs on PowerDVD 6) via the VGA connection was extremely crisp and clear when you have the PC output set to the native resolution of the 5060HD.

That was one of the most impressive parts.

Good to be back,

Richard

Boy, either our eyes are very different or our sets are different. Your settings look overly red to me and too dark. I didn't see the green in the first place, so I think something may be different for us.

I checked out your settings too. Very interesting....

Your settings have a very laid-back, film look to them. I can appreciate that look and I'll use your settings for a couple of movies but not HD. Yours does have the green haze to it on my set. If I use my settings for 1 minute and flip to yours... I see it. The Mrs also confirmed the green. Unlike me, she does not like the picture with your settings at all. Her words were " It looks like regular TV"....I guess she means the picture does not pop out of the screen like HD should.

I used HDNet's Tuesday morning test patterns to verify your settings as my settings are derived from them. Your brightness setting does bring out more details in dark colors, but it does not conform to HDNet's grey ramp. The number 10 on the graduations bar should barely be visible as it represents blacker than black. I had to reduce your brightness setting down to -1 to correct it. Your colors were a little off based on the SMTP color bar too, but I did not make any changes to them. All of these differences may be attributed to the fact that we have different cable boxes.

I compared your settings to mine with INHD's "In Theaters" show.

Watching the Doom trailer, I really could see the difference in our settings. They were like night and day. All those darks scenes looked like I was there with my settings, where yours looked like I was at my local theater.....very calm, very subtle. Zanthra's space scenes showed the same thing....lots more depth and richer colors with my settings.

Again, I think the differences we are seeing is due to the different cable boxes. I'm going to pop in the cable card again and compare the settings again.

Hey gang,

Been out for a couple of weeks now. Wilma pretty much went right over the top and we lost Power, Water, Phone, and Internet. All is back and working again.

While we were without power for a week, we missed all our regular shows. I built an HTPC in order to download and watch them so we could catch up. I did find that watching the downloaded shows (and DVDs on PowerDVD 6) via the VGA connection was extremely crisp and clear when you have the PC output set to the native resolution of the 5060HD.

That was one of the most impressive parts.

Good to be back,

Richard

Glad to see you are ok. Keep us posted on your 5060 report.

Hi all, I'm a newbie and just purchased a new 4360! I have a few questions. First, I have directTV, how I can get a directTV signal and OTA channels at the same time? Looks like there is only one coax port for digital connections. Also, everyone says 100 hours as a break-in period for a plasma. Does this mean any digital channel that has black bars on the side is not recommended? And xbox is not recommended during this time period too? Finally, anyone have any advice for getting the TV calibrated correctly? I'm definitely no videophile!

Thanks,
Nick

DirecTV should handle that for you. You should only be using the component or HDMI port with DirecTV. For the first 100 hours, make sure your picture fulls the screen....no black side-bars. Watching 2:35 movies are ok but make sure they are balanced with viewing full shows. Get a copy of DVE or Avia to calibrate your set. Later, if you still are not satisfied, get it ISF calibrated.

Can someone post some settings for him to start off with?

I would like to share my settings that I am using from a TWC SA 8300 cable box via HDMI. Please let me know what you think....

Main Menu:
AV Selection: User
Contrast: 25
Brightness: -3
Color: -16
Tint: -2
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Standard
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High: -2
G High: -3
B High: -2
R Low: -2
G Low: -3
B Low: -1
CTI: Off
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: -7
G: 0
C: +6
B: 0
M: -1
NR:
DNR: Low
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

D-nice... fogive me but I'm getting a little confused.... these are your udated 930 settings, right?

DirecTV should handle that for you. You should only be using the component or HDMI port with DirecTV. For the first 100 hours, make sure your picture fulls the screen....no black side-bars. Watching 2:35 movies are ok but make sure they are balanced with viewing full shows. Get a copy of DVE or Avia to calibrate your set. Later, if you still are not satisfied, get it ISF calibrated.

Can someone post some settings for him to start off with?

D-Nice, what about when watching channels like ESPNHD or a local network HD channel when the picture is not in HD and it has the black bars on the side. Should this be avoided as well during the first 100 hours?

D-nice... fogive me but I'm getting a little confused.... these are your udated 930 settings, right?

Yes.

Just out of curiousity... why do you consider these settings to be "radical"?
PURE mode.

Again, I think the differences we are seeing is due to the different cable boxes. I'm going to pop in the cable card again and compare the settings again.
Different cable boxes and component vs. HDMI connections. That might make a difference as well.

D-Nice, what about when watching channels like ESPNHD or a local network HD channel when the picture is not in HD and it has the black bars on the side. Should this be avoided as well during the first 100 hours?

Yes and the 4360 is capable of stretching HD channels.

Maybe not in terms of the motion problem, but if I see it on the Fujitsu too, I'm sure it's not a quality control issue. If I was buying a Pio again, I would still opt for the Elite.


Well, it is a hobby. I want to tinker, experiment, and improve. I just don't want a bothersome problem that is largely insurmountable. If I keep the Pio, I will just keep the Pio. No TV in the bedroom.

Unfortunately for my #1 option, I found out there is no authorized service center in Alaska for commercial Pannys. I have an email out to Panny service to see if it would be possible to have any warranty issues serviced by the authorized shop for the consumer line. Alternatively, I would have to try to buy a warranty that would cover from day one. Shipping to outside would cost way too much for service.

Panasonic Commercial PDP is ON-SITE warranty. My company has two for advertisement, one lost a fan and fried a circuit board during July of this year. They had people come in replace the board and put the TV back up on the pedestal.

Double check, maybe we have a deal for repairs. But I'm pretty sure that commerical is ON-SITE.

Panasonic Commercial PDP is ON-SITE warranty. My company has two for advertisement, one lost a fan and fried a circuit board during July of this year. They had people come in replace the board and put the TV back up on the pedestal.

Double check, maybe we have a deal for repairs. But I'm pretty sure that commerical is ON-SITE.
That might help if it is. I just spent 15 minutes on the panasonic business pages and cannot find anything about warranty for the commercial plasmas though. Visual Apex's site just specifies "1 year" with no mention of on site or carry in. I may have to start a thread with this question since everyone that got one of these at home must have a printed warranty sheet. This is a Pio thread after all! :o

Pro 1130 Settings for HD/SD via Moto 6412 DVR (Rev3) over HDMI (Input 1)

Main Menu:
AV Selection: PURE
Contrast: 36
Brightness: -2
Color: +5
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -6

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: OFF
Color Detail:
Color Temp: LOW
CTI: ON
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: 0
G: 0
C: 0
B: 0
M: 0
NR:
DNR: High
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 2
Others:
I-P Mode: 2

NOTES:

I have been using these settings for over 2 weeks now and the only thing I ever touch is turning purecinema to "on" when there is film content, and basic brightness depending on time of day. These settings are not fatigueing to me in the slightest over marathon watching sessions, and after coming in the door from a long days work, I turn on the boob panel (no longer a tube) and dont even think about touching the adjustments, which for me is the test of getting something right.

My room is usually quite dark, and you'll notice these are fairly dim settings. I do see a little green in certain scenes, but its not enough to annoy me when I'm not looking for it. I have about 250 hrs on the set now and have no image retention issues at all with these settings. SD is a little dark, but I prefer it that way. i love these settings for HD.

The boston/philly game was great last night, so I forgot to post this up ;)

That might help if it is. I just spent 15 minutes on the panasonic business pages and cannot find anything about warranty for the commercial plasmas though. Visual Apex's site just specifies "1 year" with no mention of on site or carry in. I may have to start a thread with this question since everyone that got one of these at home must have a printed warranty sheet. This is a Pio thread after all! :oCarry/ship in:

http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/showthread.php?t=29


Service Center locator:

http://www.pasc.panasonic.com/WhereTo/FindServicer.asp?Pass=1&hdnLevel1=1&hdnLevel2=100


ron

First, thanks for all the great posts re this plasma. I ordered one from TVA 2 days ago, am waiting for delivery...cable HDTV box coming Friday...your great input made the decision MUCH easier. :)
Now for a minor dilemma...what to store it in. I have a Mitsubishi 40" CRT in a TV Armoire, and will move it to another room. We have been shopping (agreement between my off-duty supervisor--wife--was that plasma=no problem, just be able to hide it in a cabinet when it's not being used). But, most of the furniture seems to accommodate about 50" total. This tv, if you include the speakers is about 55" wide. Pioneer says:

Display - No Speakers 48-7/32 x 28-1/4 x 3-5/8 inches (WxHxD)
Display w/ Speakers - Flush Mount 54-9/32 x 28-1/4 x 3-5/8 inches (WxHxD)
Display w/ Speakers - Air Mount 55-3/8 x 28+1/4 x 3-5/8 inches (WxHxD)

So, my questions is, how important are the side speakers? I have a Yamaha/Bose surround system, but hate to crank all that up just to watch prime time or the news...usually only use it when watching a movie. Can you put these speakers somewhere else? Do they have wires, or hard mount on the tv? Any other suggestions for alternate sound if I remove them? Can you use "computer" speakers and wire them in the RCA jacks, etc? Any suggestions so I can use the 50" cabinet? :confused:
I found a few that will work w/speakers (56"+) but do not like most of them.
Thanks,
-Kevin

Yes.

D-nice... I was playing with your settings last night... and I think they're good... really good... They do seem to boarder on being too dark on some hd material... nudging brightness just a bit seems to help.

I've also noticed that non-hd material looks MUCH better with your earlier settings... for whatever that's worth.

For HD your new settings are much truer to life... I sometimes wonder, however, if I like a slightly enhanced version of real-life better.

Thanks for the sharing your settings.

D-nice... I was playing with your settings last night... and I think they're good... really good... They do seem to boarder on being too dark on some hd material... nudging brightness just a bit seems to help.

I've also noticed that non-hd material looks MUCH better with your earlier settings... for whatever that's worth.

For HD your new settings are much truer to life... I sometimes wonder, however, if I like a slightly enhanced version of real-life better.

Thanks for the sharing your settings.

Thanks. I've made some improvements...changes are in bold print.

Main Menu:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 25
Brightness: -1
Color: 0
Tint: 2 (towards green)
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Off
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High: -3
G High: -3
B High: -2
R Low: -2
G Low: -3
B Low: -1
CTI: Off
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: -7
G: 0
C: +6
B: 0
M: -1
NR:
DNR: Low
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

Thanks. I've made some improvements...changes are in bold print.

Main Menu:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 25
Brightness: -1
Color: 0
Tint: 2 (towards green)
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Off
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High: -3
G High: -3
B High: -2
R Low: -2
G Low: -3
B Low: -1
CTI: Off
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: -7
G: 0
C: +6
B: 0
M: -1
NR:
DNR: Low
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

Thanks... I'll check them out tonight (although my wife's patience is wearing thin)... just out of curiousity... can you describe how the changes have affected the picture? (sorry... but I need something to hold me over 'til I get home).

Thanks again for sharing all your work.

Thanks... I'll check them out tonight (although my wife's patience is wearing thin)... just out of curiousity... can you describe how the changes have affected the picture? (sorry... but I need something to hold me over 'til I get home).

Thanks again for sharing all your work.

Using the settings in pure mode gives you more room to play with the color saturation (0 for color in pure mode equates to -15 in my other settings). Those highlighted changes with brightness, etc are due to using pure mode.

Pro 1130 Settings for HD/SD via Moto 6412 DVR (Rev3) over HDMI (Input 1)

Main Menu:
AV Selection: PURE
Contrast: 36
Brightness: -2
Color: +5
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -6

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: OFF
Color Detail:
Color Temp: LOW
CTI: ON
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: 0
G: 0
C: 0
B: 0
M: 0
NR:
DNR: High
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 2
Others:
I-P Mode: 2

NOTES:

I have been using these settings for over 2 weeks now and the only thing I ever touch is turning purecinema to "on" when there is film content, and basic brightness depending on time of day. These settings are not fatigueing to me in the slightest over marathon watching sessions, and after coming in the door from a long days work, I turn on the boob panel (no longer a tube) and dont even think about touching the adjustments, which for me is the test of getting something right.

My room is usually quite dark, and you'll notice these are fairly dim settings. I do see a little green in certain scenes, but its not enough to annoy me when I'm not looking for it. I have about 250 hrs on the set now and have no image retention issues at all with these settings. SD is a little dark, but I prefer it that way. i love these settings for HD.

The boston/philly game was great last night, so I forgot to post this up ;)

Thanks. I'll try yours tonight.

Not to be disrespectful of the time and effort going into the posting of settings for your HDTV here, but can we really assume that quality control is so good that two HDTVs with identical settings really will give you an identical picture? Other threads have commented on how a certain model of HDTV made in one country is better than the same model with a different country of origin.

My understanding of accepted tolerances in the consumer electronics field would lead me to believe that quality control is not that tight.

I'm using the 1012 w/ the 5060 and it fits fine. I think the 1013 is the model being issued w/ the current elites, so that will certainly fit as well.


Does anyone know what other Elite stands will fit on PDP-5060HD. Based on what I've read so far, is that the PDK-1012 works, and possibly the PDK-1013. I think I also read that the PDK-1011 will work. I also like the looks of the PDK-1000 which looks even more sturdy, but I doubt it will swivel. Does anyone know if the PDK-1000 will fit ?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

BEN

I have read that the Pioneer plasmas have "friendly" aspect ratio controls and Stretch modes. It has been discussed in this thread, but I don't recall seeing any images posted.

Can someone post a few sample images displaying how each stretch mode appears on the panel?

There is another thread that has images of aspect ratios and stretch modes for the Panasonic plasmas and it would be interesting to see how they visually compare to the Pioneer.

Here's the link to the other thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6512887#post6512887

4360 -- how do I remove channels from the "CH+", "CH-" function? When I'm using CH+ / - I want it to skip over the analog channels and many of the digital ones. In tuner setup I see "add channel" but no "delete channel". Pretty basic functionaliy I had in my 15 yr old Mitsu -- where is it on this.
Great tv otherwise.

Hi Guys,

We have ordered our Pioneer 5060 and can expect delivery within 2 weeks.

Question regarding wall mounting - is the power outlet and hdmi cable suppose to run in the gap between the wall mount or should they be located just below the mount?

Also, what sort of wall casing should we use to make the hdmi cable look tidy entering and exiting the wall?

Thanks,

Julie

Some great info here. Thanks to everyone. I am currently (like others) debating b/w the 5060 and the Panasonic 50PHD8UK. I will be going to BB this weekend to try and compare first hand (I know the Panny will be a different model). Hopefully one of them knocks my socks off and I don't get stuck in the indecision rut that many people here seem to have hit. With the 5060, I am most concerned about the judder and the buzzing some people have heard - I think that would really bug me. Also, the ~$1500 difference in cost has to be a factor. Even after buying a HDMI blade or two for the panasonic it is still a grand cheaper.

Anyway, have most people here bought their TVs from TVA, or is there another online site I should be looking at? Thanks.

If you check out Page 38 of your owner's manual, you will find that if you manually set up your channels you may include only those that you really want. As I do not have this TV, I am uncertain whether the same procedure will generate a "delete" option. Check it out - and report back so that we all know!!

LIY

Not to be disrespectful of the time and effort going into the posting of settings for your HDTV here, but can we really assume that quality control is so good that two HDTVs with identical settings really will give you an identical picture? Other threads have commented on how a certain model of HDTV made in one country is better than the same model with a different country of origin.

My understanding of accepted tolerances in the consumer electronics field would lead me to believe that quality control is not that tight.


You make a good point, but I have LOVED the settings being posted. I actually have a text file of different ones, to give me a starting point when we get our 1130. As with anything, I'm sure there are differences, and personal tastes comes into play as well. But I'll welcome anyone's suggestions, even if I don't like them ;)

Not to be disrespectful of the time and effort going into the posting of settings for your HDTV here, but can we really assume that quality control is so good that two HDTVs with identical settings really will give you an identical picture? Other threads have commented on how a certain model of HDTV made in one country is better than the same model with a different country of origin.

My understanding of accepted tolerances in the consumer electronics field would lead me to believe that quality control is not that tight.

All US plasmas are assembled in the USA with Japanese parts (not including speakers and MR). Identical TVs???..... nothing is identical, but because they are made on an assembly line do you think that the difference would be greater than 3%? I don't. Worst case scenario is that all settings posted may require a very slight adjustment here and there. I would agree that a TV made for the USA would be very different that the same TV made for the UK as the specs must be in compliance with each country's standard specification codes.

Some great info here. Thanks to everyone. I am currently (like others) debating b/w the 5060 and the Panasonic 50PHD8UK. I will be going to BB this weekend to try and compare first hand (I know the Panny will be a different model). Hopefully one of them knocks my socks off and I don't get stuck in the indecision rut that many people here seem to have hit. With the 5060, I am most concerned about the judder and the buzzing some people have heard - I think that would really bug me. Also, the ~$1500 difference in cost has to be a factor. Even after buying a HDMI blade or two for the panasonic it is still a grand cheaper.

Anyway, have most people here bought their TVs from TVA, or is there another online site I should be looking at? Thanks.


It is unfortunate that some others had a buzz with their MR but mine doesn't.

Judder...I don't see it. Some are more sensitive to it than others....just like rainbows in DLPs.

If you are trying to justify the price of the Pioneer vs Panasonic, don't. Just go buy the 8UK as it is also great set.

After waiting until the price got down to the point where I could justify to myself (and my wife!) buying a high end 50 inch plasma I finally pulled the trigger tonight. Actually, the price of the Panny 500U was the price I was waiting for, but my eyes kept going back to the 5060. Both are great TV's and I am sure there are people who like the Panny better, and the lower price is a bonus. However, the 5060 just has a jaw dropping pop to my eyes. There were a few other things that also sold me on the Pioneer. A couple of days ago I was watching the 5060 and 500U side by side showing SD. I had the salesman tune the store's satellite to a highly compressed channel, which was showing Happy Days. The 5060 looked notably better than the 500U, and I figured if it could make that showon that channel look watchable, then it should handle any SD I could throw at it. This is very important to me since the TV is not going to be just dedicated to HD and DVDs.

I bought it at Future Shop (owed by Best Buy here in Canada) after they ran an advertisement today for a $500 price drop. After further negotiations I got it for quite a bit below was it was listed for yesterday.

Delivery in about a week. HD PVR to be bought this weekend. I'm not sure who is more excited - me for finally getting my dream TV, or my wife for no longer having to listen to me talk about what to buy and when to buy it!

All US plasmas are assembled in the USA with Japanese parts (not including speakers and MR). Identical TVs???..... nothing is identical, but because they are made on an assembly line do you think that the difference would be greater than 3%? I don't. Worst case scenario is that all settings posted may require a very slight adjustment here and there. I would agree that a TV made for the USA would be very different that the same TV made for the UK as the specs must be in compliance with each country's standard specification codes.
The situation I was thinking about was a discussion of new generation Panasonic PDPs made in Mexico vs. those made in Japan (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6455075&highlight=mexican#post6455075) Both are made for the U.S. market. (Of course, I should have searched for this in the first place, so I would be clear as to what I am talking about. :( )

Resistor and capacitor tolerances can be as great as 10-20%, so theoretically the difference in performance between two units could be greater than 3%.

Anyway, I don't mean to hijack this thread. I just wanted to point out that we often talk about consumer electronics as if they were precision components, when that may not actually be the case.

I just bought a 5060 wonderful tv. One thing I don't like is the receiver fan. I actually have it in a closet where it can't be heard if I could'nt put it in another room the noise would drive me crazy. I also have a problem with getting the cable card to work.

I live in Detroit and have Comcast service. I've had a tech over 6 times trying to get a cable card to work. I've finally decided to get a tv repair person to look at the set to see if theres something wrong with it. When the card is put in the set and they send a signal to it nothing happens. I can only receive anolog stations and the up and down channel buttons don't work. Can someone else post there experience with a cable card in this model.

I just bought a 5060 wonderful tv. One thing I don't like is the receiver fan. I actually have it in a closet where it can't be heard if I could'nt put it in another room the noise would drive me crazy. I also have a problem with getting the cable card to work.

I live in Detroit and have Comcast service. I've had a tech over 6 times trying to get a cable card to work. I've finally decided to get a tv repair person to look at the set to see if theres something wrong with it. When the card is put in the set and they send a signal to it nothing happens. I can only receive anolog stations and the up and down channel buttons don't work. Can someone else post there experience with a cable card in this model.There seems to be some variation in the fan noise from one media box to the next. It sounds like you've overcome the problem, but if you wanted you could exchange the media box for another.

As for CableCard, I'm using one with my 5060, and it's been fine. As I recall, when installing it I had to power cycle the media box a couple of times to get it to start working. In your case, I agree at this point with having the Pioneer checked out, although I still suspect the problem is on Comcast's end. This may be another reason to exchange your media box.

I just bought a 5060 wonderful tv. One thing I don't like is the receiver fan. I actually have it in a closet where it can't be heard if I could'nt put it in another room the noise would drive me crazy. I also have a problem with getting the cable card to work.

I live in Detroit and have Comcast service. I've had a tech over 6 times trying to get a cable card to work. I've finally decided to get a tv repair person to look at the set to see if theres something wrong with it. When the card is put in the set and they send a signal to it nothing happens. I can only receive anolog stations and the up and down channel buttons don't work. Can someone else post there experience with a cable card in this model.

I had some cable card issues initially (with a Panasonic plasma). The comcast tech on my end wasn't the issue. The person the tech talks to at Comcast has to punch in the right codes. If your account is not set up correctly, it won't work. It took a 3rd call by the tech to get my cable card to work -- the first two people he spoke with didn't know what they were doing.

It took one visit, but instead of 20 minutes, it took about 3 hours. At first I only saw analog channels as well. When he finally got a knowledgeable person at Comcast, they were able to authorize the digital channels too.

Try again with Comcast, but make sure the tech gets someone senior on the other end. You may have just been unlucky with multiple calls getting similarly poorly trained people. Not unusual at Comcast apparently.

I had some cable card issues initially (with a Panasonic plasma). The comcast tech on my end wasn't the issue. The person the tech talks to at Comcast has to punch in the right codes. If your account is not set up correctly, it won't work. It took a 3rd call by the tech to get my cable card to work -- the first two people he spoke with didn't know what they were doing.

It took one visit, but instead of 20 minutes, it took about 3 hours. At first I only saw analog channels as well. When he finally got a knowledgeable person at Comcast, they were able to authorize the digital channels too.

Try again with Comcast, but make sure the tech gets someone senior on the other end. You may have just been unlucky with multiple calls getting similarly poorly trained people. Not unusual at Comcast apparently.

Did you have a problem with the up down channel buttons?