Official Pioneer 4360/5060/Elite Experiences, Set-up, Questions & Pictures Thread!!! [Text View] - Page 5

plasmalvr

11-12-05, 05:02 PM

I use Patriot Media in Central New Jersey. My cable card is made by Motorola. I own a Pioneer Elite 1120.

I have the same problem that I've had since I've had the tv. ESPNHD doesn't always work initially. Sometimes I have to "channel up" or "channel down" or press the number of the channel to get the channel to work. What happens when it doesn't work is I receive a frozen frame of the broadcast. The reason I have this problem only with ESPNHD and none of the other HD stations is that it's the only HD station delivered in 720P- the others are delivered in 1080i.

I had an interesting problem last night. YES network is broadcast in HD here. Last night the New Jersey Nets had an away game and it was broadcast in SD. The cable company told me that sometimes the game isn't broadcast in HD. It was interesting that the tv automatically extended the telecast to a full wide screen format. Normally there would be black or gray bars around an SD broadcast.

alpina

11-12-05, 06:36 PM

5060 is ready for delivery - woohoo! just got to paint the wall and set up for connection now

went to an electrical store yesterday and saw my first dead pixel on this panel. it was red and located in top left hand quadrant. looked awful once i knew it was there :( hope this is not an omen :)

in australia, when you buy a pioneer plasma they send their people to set it up and tune it for you. so whats the best way to check for dead pixels when the tech's here? is it possible to get coloured screens up or do i need to test dvd for eg?

also, i would appreciate any assistance in knowing where the power and hdmi cable is suppose to come out when using a wall bracket - ie, are the cables suppose to come out in the gap between the wall bracket or directly below the bracket? want to set this up before technician comes.

thanks,

julie

Trogonboy

11-13-05, 01:39 PM

I also cannot get the TV Guide to show any data, even though it goes thru' the full setup procedure and controls the cable box correctly.

Help appreciated.

Trogonboy

11-13-05, 02:11 PM

I have now discovered you need to turn off the TV Guide at startup in the TV Guide setup - default preferences menu. This prevents the service menu appearing.

eelton

11-13-05, 02:41 PM

I also cannot get the TV Guide to show any data, even though it goes thru' the full setup procedure and controls the cable box correctly.

Help appreciated.I found that my cable company blocks (probably unintentionally--they're not that smart) the guide info, which is carried on a local PBS channel. Try connecting an antenna to the Pioneer's B input so that the data can be downloaded over-the-air. That worked for me.

scanido

11-13-05, 02:42 PM

Just got my 5060 from Future Shop and want to say this TV is AWESOME!

I had the new Sony 40" XBR LCD before deciding to exchange it for this plasma and I have to say the color, contrast and sex appeal of this TV wins flat out! The dual HMDI inputs are a plus as well! Did I mention this TV looks HOT! :D

Since most peeps here are posting their 1130 Elite settings I'd like to be the first to share my settings for the 5060 under break in and normal use. BTW, the display hasn't shown any image retention at all.

Here are my settings that I have settled for when i watch HDTV on my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR from Rogers:

Contrast: 30
Brightness: -1
Color: -10
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -2

Pure Cinema: Adv
Color Temp: Mid
CIT: On
DNR: Mid
MPEG NR: Low

My DVD settings are almost the same except contrast is set for 28 and brightness is set for -2

alpina

11-13-05, 08:38 PM

seen two 5060's with dead pixels in shops now. this leaves me a 50% average.

won't deter me from buying one though but if it has a dead pixel on delivery its going back for exchange :)

regards,

julie

kmramos

11-13-05, 09:30 PM

Hi Pioneer owners. I wanted your take on a couple things. This question is directed in particular to Pstrisk, since he is not entirely happy with the 1130HD.

I recently bought the Fujitsu 50, and have some issues with it. First, I am noticing a fair amount of false contouring. You can easily spot this on a gray ramp pattern on VE or Avia. I have adjusted the settings to minimize this, but it still turns up and is something that I really hate. I know Pioneer touts this issue as one that it does well at ameliorating, and I'm just wondering if you might be able to tell me if you notice it on your display. Master and Commander is a good one to test this, as it has lots of foggy scenes (ch. 3 in particular).

Second, the Fujitsu is fairly noisy. I can hear the fans buzzing from my normal viewing position, about 9 feet away.

Third, I am able to see the weird "rainbow" effect on this panel. This is not common, and it only turns up with a dark object moving quickly against a light background. I can see brief flashes of yellow in the outlines of the moving figures. The beginning of Master and Commander chapter 5 shows this well. This effect has been seen by others on the Fujitsu, and more commonly (because there are more out there) on the Panasonic displays. Interesting, really, as they use the same glass.

Anyway, the aggregrate effect of these things is beginning to bug me, enough to consider exchanging it.

I'd love to hear your comments on the Pioneer.

D-Nice

11-13-05, 10:15 PM

kmramos,

Maybe you should try the 1130. If you don't like it, take it back. As far as pstrisk is concerned, I don't think he is going to find "the perfect plasma" anytime soon. I think he is going to get a 8Uk. I hope he knows that it suffers from the "floating black" issue.

pstrisk, judder....floating black....judder....floating black....tough call.

T2starr

11-13-05, 10:19 PM

First, thanks for all the great posts re this plasma. I ordered one from TVA 2 days ago, am waiting for delivery...cable HDTV box coming Friday...your great input made the decision MUCH easier. :)
Now for a minor dilemma...what to store it in. I have a Mitsubishi 40" CRT in a TV Armoire, and will move it to another room. We have been shopping (agreement between my off-duty supervisor--wife--was that plasma=no problem, just be able to hide it in a cabinet when it's not being used). But, most of the furniture seems to accommodate about 50" total. This tv, if you include the speakers is about 55" wide. Pioneer says:

Display - No Speakers 48-7/32 x 28-1/4 x 3-5/8 inches (WxHxD)
Display w/ Speakers - Flush Mount 54-9/32 x 28-1/4 x 3-5/8 inches (WxHxD)
Display w/ Speakers - Air Mount 55-3/8 x 28+1/4 x 3-5/8 inches (WxHxD)

So, my questions is, how important are the side speakers? I have a Yamaha/Bose surround system, but hate to crank all that up just to watch prime time or the news...usually only use it when watching a movie. Can you put these speakers somewhere else? Do they have wires, or hard mount on the tv? Any other suggestions for alternate sound if I remove them? Can you use "computer" speakers and wire them in the RCA jacks, etc? Any suggestions so I can use the 50" cabinet? :confused:
I found a few that will work w/speakers (56"+) but do not like most of them.
Thanks,
-Kevin

I prefer using the side speakers for "everyday" TV watching, and will use my surround system for DVD's. So to answer your question, yes I think the side speakers are important. The sound quality is surprisingly good, which I have further improved by hooking a subwoofer to the MR sub output. I don't see any reason why you couldn't mount these wherever you want. Just get longer speaker wire than what they include with the plasma.

T2starr

11-13-05, 11:27 PM

Hi Guys,

We have ordered our Pioneer 5060 and can expect delivery within 2 weeks.

Question regarding wall mounting - is the power outlet and hdmi cable suppose to run in the gap between the wall mount or should they be located just below the mount?

Also, what sort of wall casing should we use to make the hdmi cable look tidy entering and exiting the wall?

Thanks,

Julie

I had an electrician install a outlet behind the plasma. I also ran a 2 inch conduit from a cabinet below that enters the wall through holes in the plasma mount. I should have some pictures by this weekend

pstrisik

11-13-05, 11:41 PM

Hi Pioneer owners. I wanted your take on a couple things. This question is directed in particular to Pstrisk, since he is not entirely happy with the 1130HD.The only problem I'm having is the judder I perceive. Otherwise, I think the 1130 is quite a set with excellent PQ.

I recently bought the Fujitsu 50, and have some issues with it. First, I am noticing a fair amount of false contouring. You can easily spot this on a gray ramp pattern on VE or Avia. I have adjusted the settings to minimize this, but it still turns up and is something that I really hate. I know Pioneer touts this issue as one that it does well at ameliorating, and I'm just wondering if you might be able to tell me if you notice it on your display. Master and Commander is a good one to test this, as it has lots of foggy scenes (ch. 3 in particular).I have used Master and Commander as a reference disk some and have noticed no false contouring whatsoever on the 1130. I did notice some on the 4312 I had prior. Use a gray ramp screen, the transitions are not totally smooth however. So, I guess it is there to some degree, I just have never seen it in DVD or HDTV viewing. I suppose it is possible that you are more sensitive than most to false contouring and will see it where I don't. I am sensitive to the judder effect and see it where others don't (including on the Fujitsu 50"). If that is the case, you will have to test out the 1130 for yourself before you will know for sure.

Second, the Fujitsu is fairly noisy. I can hear the fans buzzing from my normal viewing position, about 9 feet away.Again, "noisy" is so subjective that it is hard to know if we are using the same scale. However, the Pio has an external media receiver with a fan. The panel has no fan that I am aware of. If one is in there, I have never heard it. The MR's fan is audible, but not distracting. I have the box in a console that is open in back and screened in front and I don't hear it at all unless I am less than a foot or two from the screen. You have the flexibility with the MR of putting it in a closet or even on the other side of the wall if you want. Only one cable connects the MR to the display. All your sources connect to the MR.

Third, I am able to see the weird "rainbow" effect on this panel. This is not common, and it only turns up with a dark object moving quickly against a light background. I can see brief flashes of yellow in the outlines of the moving figures. The beginning of Master and Commander chapter 5 shows this well. This effect has been seen by others on the Fujitsu, and more commonly (because there are more out there) on the Panasonic displays. Interesting, really, as they use the same glass.I have never seen a rainbow effect on my plasma or any plasma, lcd, dlp, etc. You could better judge if you get an answer from a Pio owner that does see rainbow on DLP.

Anyway, the aggregrate effect of these things is beginning to bug me, enough to consider exchanging it.Most of what you are concerned about, except for fan noise can probably be evaluated in a decently set up store. Do you have one nearby?

pstrisik

11-13-05, 11:47 PM

As far as pstrisk is concerned, I don't think he is going to find "the perfect plasma" anytime soon. What!!! You mean he's on a wild goose chase?! :eek:

I think he is going to get a 8Uk. I hope he knows that it suffers from the "floating black" issue.

pstrisk, judder....floating black....judder....floating black....tough call.One of the things that attracts me to the 8UK is the flexibility of using a video processor and inputting native resolution to the panel. But, don't know what I will do yet. It's back to the drawing board. I may end up with a sub 2K EDTV and wait another year or two before getting a longer term investment.

Is there a good way to evaluate the floating black issue in a store? I don't have access to an 8UK, but there is a 500U on the wall the Magnolia here.

D-Nice

11-14-05, 12:32 AM

What!!! You mean he's on a wild goose chase?! :eek:

One of the things that attracts me to the 8UK is the flexibility of using a video processor and inputting native resolution to the panel. But, don't know what I will do yet. It's back to the drawing board. I may end up with a sub 2K EDTV and wait another year or two before getting a longer term investment.

Is there a good way to evaluate the floating black issue in a store? I don't have access to an 8UK, but there is a 500U on the wall the Magnolia here.

Not exactly sure if you will see it in the store, but most owners have seen it at home. Even the dumbasses at CNet have seen it on the 8UK.

Personally, I don't think you are going to get away from the judder you are seeing if you get a 8uk.....scaler or no scaler....you are just sensitive to it. How often do you use ADV pure cinema? Remember there are only 2 true ways to get rid of judder from progressive movies:

1. feed a panel 48HZ
2. feed a panel 72HZ

At any rate, I hope you find something that satisfies you.

pstrisik

11-14-05, 12:45 AM

Not exactly sure if you will see it in the store, but most owners have seen it at home. Even the dumbasses at CNet have seen it on the 8UK.

Personally, I don't think you are going to get away from the judder you are seeing if you get a 8uk.....scaler or no scaler....you are just sensitive to it. How often do you use ADV pure cinema? Remember there are only 2 true ways to get rid of judder from progressive movies:

1. feed a panel 48HZ
2. feed a panel 72HZ

At any rate, I hope you find something that satisfies you.
Thanks!

I just read through a couple of the "black level changing" threads. Seems that some see it, some don't and there are very few reports of the problem with the 50" 8UK. But the risk is still there.

I think you may be correct about the judder. I am now seeing it on all sets I look at, though at varying degrees. The bigger the set, the more noticible it is.

All of this is so frustrating to a perfectionist like me. That's why I think about getting a lower end ED like the Costo Panny 42PM50U and reducing my expectations. I would be better able to put up with flaws on a sub $2K set that I knew I'd be willing to replace in a year or two.

Mystify

11-14-05, 10:23 AM

After waiting until the price got down to the point where I could justify to myself (and my wife!) buying a high end 50 inch plasma I finally pulled the trigger tonight. Actually, the price of the Panny 500U was the price I was waiting for, but my eyes kept going back to the 5060. Both are great TV's and I am sure there are people who like the Panny better, and the lower price is a bonus. However, the 5060 just has a jaw dropping pop to my eyes. There were a few other things that also sold me on the Pioneer. A couple of days ago I was watching the 5060 and 500U side by side showing SD. I had the salesman tune the store's satellite to a highly compressed channel, which was showing Happy Days. The 5060 looked notably better than the 500U, and I figured if it could make that showon that channel look watchable, then it should handle any SD I could throw at it. This is very important to me since the TV is not going to be just dedicated to HD and DVDs.

I bought it at Future Shop (owed by Best Buy here in Canada) after they ran an advertisement today for a $500 price drop. After further negotiations I got it for quite a bit below was it was listed for yesterday.

Delivery in about a week. HD PVR to be bought this weekend. I'm not sure who is more excited - me for finally getting my dream TV, or my wife for no longer having to listen to me talk about what to buy and when to buy it!

Hi IRJS,

I tried to private message message you, but I guess you have it turned off.

Do you mind telling me what you were able to haggle the 5060HD down to?

I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a 5060 here in Ottawa and would like to know what kind of deal is at least possible.

You can PM me.

Thanks a lot.

Blackspyrit

11-14-05, 10:59 AM

Yoda1

11-14-05, 11:36 AM

In a week I'm swapping my HP PL4200N for a Pioneer 4360, and I had a few questions for you owners.

The main reason that I'm swapping the TVs is: I SEE RAINBOWS ON THE HP. Yes, that's right, RAINBOWS.

This phenomenon has been documented elsewhere on the forums http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=540599&highlight=rainbow+plasma

so I know that I'm not going crazy.

The effect I see comes in a few colors, mainly yellow and light blue. It manifests in a way very similar to what one might see on a DLP set. Usually the yellow flashing appears during scenes of high contrast or on white text against a black background. Needless to say, it's very irritating to the eyes. This is pretty disappointing because the PQ on the HP (which is just a rebadged Panasonic) is beautiful. Suspcicion abounds that the problem is the result of Panasonic's sub-pixel controller, which may cause timing delays with certain colors.

So, after all this, I've decided to swap the HP for the Pioneer. Has anyone noticed anything like this on the Pioneer? Oh, and by the way, how is SD on this set, because SD on the HP is more than I could have ever hoped for.

Thanks a lot.

Btw, what is false contouring?

Malvoe1

11-14-05, 11:59 AM

Sorry to anyone following the "vs" thread, since I posted some of this over there, too...

I went to see the 2 tvs (5060, 50U) this weekend. They weren't right next to each other, making comparisons difficult. However, they both looked great to me, and I think I'll be happy with either. It was too loud to listen for buzzing. I like the connectivity of the Pioneer a lot more, and I think the piano black looks pretty sweet (although, I like the flat black of the 8uk, too)

The STB is the biggest plus for the Pioneer. The more I think about it, the more it starts to factor in.

It will come down to whether I think the STB, finish, and light weight of the Pioneer is worth and extra $1000. Surprisingly (for me) that is the way I am leaning right now. Another (big) plus is that it is available immediately via TVA.

The ability to use an aftermarket scaler with the Panasonic is somewhat of a factor - however, I don't know if I would realistically ever get around to adding one.

MaliciousBraham

11-14-05, 01:04 PM

On my 5060, there is a very noticeable "bulging" effect on SD channels. When viewing CNN for instance, the text scrolling across the screen seems to start off in a straight line, then towards the middle of the screen "bulges" before it straightens out again as it goes off screen. I don't know if I'm being clear...is this what's known as ghosting? It's only an issue on SD channels, HD content is perfect.

Are you using the wide picture size setting? Make sure you cycle through all the stretch options and see if the issue exists on all or its just the wide mode that does it.

The wide mode stretches the edges more than the center, so it makes objects that move from side to side appear like they are going into/out-of the screen and then back again. I can see how one might describe that the way you do...

Mit07

11-14-05, 01:07 PM

Blackspyrit

11-14-05, 06:51 PM

Are you using the wide picture size setting? Make sure you cycle through all the stretch options and see if the issue exists on all or its just the wide mode that does it.

The wide mode stretches the edges more than the center, so it makes objects that move from side to side appear like they are going into/out-of the screen and then back again. I can see how one might describe that the way you do...

Thanks MaliciousB,

I didn't realize that my SD channels were set to the wide mode...changed to full, problem solved.

Blackspyrit

11-14-05, 07:21 PM

You were right. I was originally looking at the "main unit" hours, which is probably the media receiver. Once in the Service Menu, I pressed the mute button to navigate to the "Panel Facts" screen, then scrolled down to the "Panel hours". This number was a true representation of the hours on the screen. I have 128 hours, and now have bumped the contrast up to 30, which is 50%. I probably won't go much higher until I get closer to 1000 hours.

Here is how to get to the SM...

Start with the plasma turned OFF.
Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold).
Wait 3 seconds.
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER (on the remote).
If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed.

Press DOWN to page through each menu (for instance, to see the multiple pages that make up the INFORMATION section). Press MUTE to jump through the different menus.

Playmaker,

In the service menu, I scroll to the panel facts screen, then panel works. There is a line that states:
HR-MTR 000192H 47M
Is this the number of my panel hours?

kmramos

11-14-05, 08:00 PM

Yoda1

11-14-05, 09:17 PM

[QUOTE=Yoda1]In a week I'm swapping my HP PL4200N for a Pioneer 4360, and I had a few questions for you owners.

The main reason that I'm swapping the TVs is: I SEE RAINBOWS ON THE HP. Yes, that's right, RAINBOWS.

This phenomenon has been documented elsewhere on the forums http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=540599&highlight=rainbow+plasma

so I know that I'm not going crazy.

The effect I see comes in a few colors, mainly yellow and light blue. It manifests in a way very similar to what one might see on a DLP set. Usually the yellow flashing appears during scenes of high contrast or on white text against a black background. Needless to say, it's very irritating to the eyes. This is pretty disappointing because the PQ on the HP (which is just a rebadged Panasonic) is beautiful. Suspcicion abounds that the problem is the result of Panasonic's sub-pixel controller, which may cause timing delays with certain colors.

So, after all this, I've decided to swap the HP for the Pioneer. Has anyone noticed anything like this on the Pioneer? Oh, and by the way, how is SD on this set, because SD on the HP is more than I could have ever hoped for.

Sadly, I have seen this very thing on the Pioneer 1130HD this afternoon.

Thanks for the reply, kmramos. I went to Best Buy earlier today to see if I saw the same effect on the Pio 4360 and I'm pretty sure I did see it. One way to test for the problem is to wave your hand in front of the screen (usually when there's hot or blooming whites) - what you'll find when doing this is, you'll see a trail of yellow across the screen. Now, that in itself is not something that would (or should) turn somebody off, it's just a generic way of replicating the yellow flashing issue. The 'flash' that i'm seeing is actually almost hurtful to my eyes ... it's like a yellow pulse effect. Boy, this sucks. I'm in love with plasma .. it's the only advanced technology available that I'd be willing to spend this kind of money for.

Maybe it's best to go back to the old tube displays? Sony XBR 960 maybe? Argh. I'm so disappointed.

irjs

11-14-05, 09:37 PM

Hi Mystify, I hope you got my email with my price. I have a newbie question. I am not sure if I will hook up the TV to my stereo. If I just use the TV speakers, but I want to shut the sound off and listen through wireless headphones, can I do that? Someone was saying it depends if the audio out is fixed output (which will work) or variable output (which won't). I checked the online manual and couldn't find any reference to either of these terms. Any advise would be appreciated.

atl001

11-15-05, 09:14 AM

The ability to use an aftermarket scaler with the Panasonic is somewhat of a factor - however, I don't know if I would realistically ever get around to adding one.

Hi Jody,
How is it that you can use a scaler with the 50u, and not with the 5060? I returned the 50u and bought a 1130. I did not see anything that made me think the 50u had better connectivity.

-Drew

Malvoe1

11-15-05, 10:49 AM

I'm not sure if you can see the benefits of a scaler with the Pioneers. I don't enough about the subject to answer this.

MaliciousBraham

11-15-05, 10:56 AM

I have not had access to a very high quality (read: expensive) scaler, only cheap solutions found in various non-high-end dvd players and the like.

Across my testing, 480i is the best input (for non hd material). The pioneer's internal scalers are much better than anything cheap external.

The only thing I would expect to notice an improvement with would be a very high end scaler. Hopefully someone here will be able to test this with some good pro quality scalers here soon. I am really looking forward to it. I cannot put down the payola on a scaler without knowing prior that it is a definite improvement. I could always do the buy-and-return routine, but since no local shops have decent scalers, it is just a hassle.

edit: But to be honest, I'm not really looking for a scaler right now... after getting through the breakin (the pq does change during/across breakin) and spending more time than one should spend fiddling with picture and color settings, I am really happy with both DVD and HD right now, and have no feeling whatsover that I'm "missing something" by not having a scaler. I would sure like to know just how my tv would perform with a good quality scaler, just for my own knowledge, but I'm happy with what I've got right now.

Glashub

11-15-05, 10:56 AM

Yoda1, I had the exact or a very similar effect on my 5050 the first 100 hours or so. I no longer notice it. Then again I had the TV calibrated for the 100 hour break iun period and then I calibrated it again after about 200 hours. I don't see the effect at all anymore. Of course it could be that I've been broken in, not the TV. :rolleyes:

pstrisik

11-15-05, 11:33 AM

How is it that you can use a scaler with the 50u, and not with the 5060? I returned the 50u and bought a 1130. I did not see anything that made me think the 50u had better connectivity.

-Drew
I'm not sure you can use a scaler for native resolution with the 50u. Maybe through the VGA input analoguely (Hey! I like that word). You could use a scaler inputing 720p into HDMI, but then the panel is scaling, defeating the purpose. It is the 8UK line that lets you input native through DVI.

ss3964spd

11-15-05, 11:36 AM

G'day all,

I'm in the throws of determining exactly where I will place the MR within my built in entertainment center, so then I can determine what lengths my HDMI cables (2) will need to be.

The Pioneer site shows that the MR is 3 9/16" high but doesn't offer the dimentions of the table top stand. For my installation the panel will sit on it's table top stand. So, with the panel on it's stand will the MR fit under the panel?

Also, does anyone happen to have a fairly close picture of the MR with the flip down door open? I'm curious what connections - if any, are available on the front.

Appreciate you help,

Dan

pstrisik

11-15-05, 11:42 AM

I have not had access to a very high quality (read: expensive) scaler, only cheap solutions found in various non-high-end dvd players and the like.

Across my testing, 480i is the best input (for non hd material). The pioneer's internal scalers are much better than anything cheap external.

The only thing I would expect to notice an improvement with would be a very high end scaler. Hopefully someone here will be able to test this with some good pro quality scalers here soon. I am really looking forward to it. ........

The Video Processor (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=37) forum is where the scaler fanati... er... enthusiasts hang out. I'm sure there are a few that have used good scalers with Pios and Pannys that can indicate the benefits.

There is a new generation of scalers about to ship. One of the most popular is the DVDO VP30 at $2000, about the cheapest of the good ones. Not only do these add top shelp deinterlacing and scaling, they offer input flexibility and settings memory including aspect control. I think the VP30 has something like four HDMI inputs along with an assortment of component and lesser ones.

atl001

11-15-05, 01:47 PM

I'm not sure you can use a scaler for native resolution with the 50u. Maybe through the VGA input analoguely (Hey! I like that word). You could use a scaler inputing 720p into HDMI, but then the panel is scaling, defeating the purpose. It is the 8UK line that lets you input native through DVI.

Hi Peter,
I did try the analog input on my 1130. I think I posted my results on the Pioneer vs Panasonic thread. I was able to pass the iScan judder test, but only at 70hz. It should also lock at 50 and 60hz, but I was unable to make it pass. A couple of folks responded about issues using a 70hz framereate, but I did not really understand it.

The 50u does not have analog, and the 500u had a marked red push on the analog. That's how I arrive at the 1130. I also considered the 8uk, but given that I had already returned two panels, and the 8uk is not availale locally, I did not want to risk another return to a mail order place.

-Drew

pstrisik

11-15-05, 02:01 PM

Hi Peter,
I did try the analog input on my 1130. I think I posted my results on the Pioneer vs Panasonic thread. I was able to pass the iScan judder test, but only at 70hz. It should also lock at 50 and 60hz, but I was unable to make it pass. A couple of folks responded about issues using a 70hz framereate, but I did not really understand it.

The 50u does not have analog, and the 500u had a marked red push on the analog. That's how I arrive at the 1130. I also considered the 8uk, but given that I had already returned two panels, and the 8uk is not availale locally, I did not want to risk another return to a mail order place.

-Drew
Ah, I didn't realize that was your post. I think the 8UK is the best bet for anyone serious about using a scaler. The biggest risk seems to be the floating black level issue.

atl001

11-15-05, 02:49 PM

Ah, I didn't realize that was your post. I think the 8UK is the best bet for anyone serious about using a scaler. The biggest risk seems to be the floating black level issue.

I also think that the VGA input has the same dearth of color controls that the 500u had. Probably not an issue if you can get NR via DVI...

For me, the scaler is all about image quality. I have not done a lot of tests, but the Pioneer seems to do a very good job with the SD content coming from my old Ultimate TVs. I also like the strech modes better on the Pioneer than the stretch modes from the iScan HD. I am currently using the iScan only between my DVD player and the plasma. It looks really great. I have not compared it to directly connecting the DVD player to the set. Keep in mind that the iScan HD is I think a couple of years old by now.

Now, with a scaler you do get the opportunity to upgrade the scaler, or the TV separately, which is nice, but they all cost too much to be replacing oftern.

So, my month is up in the next week or so, so I need you to run out and get an 8uk and provide analysis so I can make an informed decision :-)

Cheers,
Drew

Malvoe1

11-15-05, 02:53 PM

So, my month is up in the next week or so, so I need you to run out and get an 8uk and provide analysis so I can make an informed decision :-)

Now that's funny - I'm with you!

Malvoe1

11-15-05, 04:11 PM

I have 99% convinced myself to get a Pioneer PDP 5060. My final concern is stuck pixels, which I searched and didn't find too much recent info about. Has anyone here seen stuck pixels on their 1130 or 5060? I know about TVA's stuck pixel guarantee, and I may buy from them for that exact reason. Just wondering how often they occur.

pstrisik

11-15-05, 04:21 PM

I also think that the VGA input has the same dearth of color controls that the 500u had. Probably not an issue if you can get NR via DVI...

For me, the scaler is all about image quality. I have not done a lot of tests, but the Pioneer seems to do a very good job with the SD content coming from my old Ultimate TVs. I also like the strech modes better on the Pioneer than the stretch modes from the iScan HD. I am currently using the iScan only between my DVD player and the plasma. It looks really great. I have not compared it to directly connecting the DVD player to the set. Keep in mind that the iScan HD is I think a couple of years old by now.

Now, with a scaler you do get the opportunity to upgrade the scaler, or the TV separately, which is nice, but they all cost too much to be replacing oftern.

So, my month is up in the next week or so, so I need you to run out and get an 8uk and provide analysis so I can make an informed decision :-)

Cheers,
Drew
Sorry Drew, you are asking the wrong person! I live in Alaska. There is not an 8UK to buy up here. I would have to order from outside. If I lived in Silicon Valley, I would be driving to the nearest shop that had them, even if it was in SF, Oakland, Sacremento, or Las Vegas! So who down there, within 1000 miles of a store, will do this research for the rest of us?

Or, if everyone wants to chip in for a plane ticket and a couple of nights in a hotel for me, I'll be glad to fly down to Seattle and check things out thoroughly. I'll even pay for my own meals! :p

jhlwas

11-15-05, 09:50 PM

cammot

11-15-05, 09:51 PM

You can exchange the media box; it's not specially matched to the panel. In fact, the same media box is used for the 43 and 50 inch models.

You could consider turning off the fans in the service menu. I tried it briefly, and the box didn't seem to get very warm. From what I've read, the heat is more of a concern if you're using a CableCard (which I am now), so I turned the fans back on.

The panel buzz with bright scenes is also normal, although it can vary a bit from one panel to another. I haven't found it at all objectionable.

Peter, I was wondering if you can answer this question. I am not so much as concerned with the Fan noise, as I am with the fact that after I switch off the media reciever (goes from a blue to orange pilot light), the fan can still be heard runing constantly and always, even when the unit is off. Is this normal ?. My guess is that the only way tos top the fan when the system is not in use, is to unplug the unit from the wall socket suppling power. Or am I doing something wrong. Please advise. Thanks

BEN

eelton

11-15-05, 10:12 PM

alpina

11-15-05, 11:31 PM

T2starr

11-15-05, 11:47 PM

hi guys,

i understand that the 5060 comes with a 5 mt cable made up of a dvi and a mdr20 cable to connect media box to plasma.

i doubt this cable will be long enough for our purposes so am now looking at the 10mt option which is likely to be 5mts longer than i need - isn't that always the way? :)

my questions are as follows:

1. given the extra length am i likely to see a degradation in signal with the 10mt cable vs the 3mt cable?

2, is anyone running the 10mt cable? what's it like?

3. would it be better for me to buy a quality 5mt dvi cable and mdr20 cable rather than opt for the 10mt pioneer option?

would appreciate any advice

regards,

julie

I am running a 30 foot cable purchased at cable-comm.com. The apparently make the cables for pioneer. The only difference is that the cables come seperate rather than fused together. I do not notice a difference when compared to the 3 m cable. They have cables ranging in size from 15 to 60 feet, and the prices are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the $600.00 MSRP that Pioneer charges.

T2starr

11-15-05, 11:56 PM

atl001

11-16-05, 10:39 AM

Peter, I was wondering if you can answer this question. I am not so much as concerned with the Fan noise, as I am with the fact that after I switch off the media reciever (goes from a blue to orange pilot light), the fan can still be heard runing constantly and always, even when the unit is off. Is this normal ?. My guess is that the only way tos top the fan when the system is not in use, is to unplug the unit from the wall socket suppling power. Or am I doing something wrong. Please advise. Thanks

BEN

The fan indeed keeps running when the set is off. My salesguy at Magnolia suggested that I remove the antenna connections to the box (they are connected, but I am not using them). He suggests that it is the tuner that runs warm, and stays on so the box can download the VCR+ guide. I did a quick test, and the fans stayed on anyway. I did not try turning off the TV guide, which seems the next logical experiment. I will try this when I get home this weekend.

Cheers,
Drew

Seeking7

11-16-05, 10:52 AM

Just had my 5060 delivered a couple of days ago. Does anyone know why the format description in the display box sometimes appears in green text and other times appears in white text. I think it has something to do with which format is set up as the automatic default but have not been able to find any mention in the manual.

pstrisik

11-16-05, 12:12 PM

D-Nice

11-16-05, 12:23 PM

pstrisik,

Made up your mind yet?

Seeking7

11-16-05, 12:37 PM

Thanks for the info...I am set - up to autosize

pstrisik

11-16-05, 01:46 PM

pstrisik,

Made up your mind yet?
About what?

:rolleyes:

Well, see my sig. I'm going to try to keep a lower profile with my obsessiveness for awhile. Since you ask though..... I'm leaning towards a good deal on a Hitachi 42HDM12 monitor that will be sub $2K. It's a HD monitor, the same glass and processing as last years models (like the 42HDT51). The current 42HDT52 has upgraded processing called "VirtualHD 1080p II". The HDM has plain old "VirtualHD" processing. I am able to view the 42HDT51 and find the PQ good. Hitachi has input memory, a very good stretch mode for SD, and a black bezel with silver trim with speakers on the bottom. So, if I go with this, I'll be going the cheap route, lowering my expectations some, and watching for an upgrade in a year or two.

I think the 42" screen will help me tolerate any perception of motion problems. I was reluctant to go back down from 50" since I was getting used to that size, but now that we are watching a 27" 4:3 set again, I think the step up to 42" would be great! :)

Kind of sad to let go of the ideal, but a bit of a relief, too.

Vashti

11-16-05, 02:09 PM

I'm going to try to keep a lower profile with my obsessiveness for awhile.

Peter, noooooOOOO!!! Do you have any idea how many people on these forums wait for the next installment on your decision?!!!!

Seriously, I've learned a huge amoung from all you've shared about your deliberations. Damn, I was even thinking it might be a shortcut in my own research. Just wait for pstrisik to decide. He's clearly as picky and as exhaustive a researcher as me, but he knows tons more. Go look at what he picks and if I like it, go for it. I know, I know, I can't rely on other people's eyes.

Well, it sounds like you're heading down a different road. Good luck. I look forward to hearing the end of the story. Hope it's a happy one. Hey, I posted in the SED thread that HD beat said today that 50" sed's would be coming out in the 1st quarter of 2006. If that's true, you might want to wait a few more months and see how that turns out.

cammot

11-16-05, 03:11 PM

The fan indeed keeps running when the set is off. My salesguy at Magnolia suggested that I remove the antenna connections to the box (they are connected, but I am not using them). He suggests that it is the tuner that runs warm, and stays on so the box can download the VCR+ guide. I did a quick test, and the fans stayed on anyway. I did not try turning off the TV guide, which seems the next logical experiment. I will try this when I get home this weekend.

Cheers,
Drew

Peter and Drew, Thanks for your responses regarding the FAN. I do appreciate it and feel a lot better now.

Another question if you have an answer is regarding the TV Guide. I am subscribed with Adelphia, and as you are probably aware their cable box is a DVR combination, that allows the subscriber to seacrh their own Adelphia guide and choose a program to record, somewhat like a TIVO setup is my guess. Given this background, and I am not sure if Adelphia strips away the TV guide that the 5060 defaults to, when I first switch the set on. Has anyone had any success in setting up the TV guide, given the same background as mine ?. It seems that I may not be able to do this, but please confirm. Also, is there a way to stop the TV guide screen being the first screen to show when I switch the set on ?. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks BEN

pstrisik

11-16-05, 04:35 PM

Peter, noooooOOOO!!! Do you have any idea how many people on these forums wait for the next installment on your decision?!!!!

Seriously, I've learned a huge amoung from all you've shared about your deliberations. Damn, I was even thinking it might be a shortcut in my own research. Just wait for pstrisik to decide. He's clearly as picky and as exhaustive a researcher as me, but he knows tons more. Go look at what he picks and if I like it, go for it. I know, I know, I can't rely on other people's eyes.

Well, it sounds like you're heading down a different road. Good luck. I look forward to hearing the end of the story. Hope it's a happy one. Hey, I posted in the SED thread that HD beat said today that 50" sed's would be coming out in the 1st quarter of 2006. If that's true, you might want to wait a few more months and see how that turns out.
Well thanks Vashti!

My only problem with the 1130 was my sensitivity to motion judder. It seems I am more sensitive than most. If this is not a problem for you, don't hesitate to get a 6th gen Pio. I would have kept it if it weren't for that.

I am impressed with the Hitachis. I may go lower end, but the director's series really seems to have an improvement over all their lower models and their previous models. The 55" lists for $6999, only $500 more than the 1130. The 42" is obviously less. Worth checking out.

crb595

11-16-05, 05:40 PM

D-Nice

11-16-05, 05:46 PM

I have an Elite 1130 on order, but it is back-ordered until at least the end of December. However, the store does have a 5060 in stock. Is it worth waiting for the 1130 (I am leaning in that direction)?

That depends on how nit-picky you are and/or if you like to tinker with the settings. If you are both or either one, the wait will be well worth it.

D-Nice

11-16-05, 05:47 PM

About what?

:rolleyes:

Well, see my sig. I'm going to try to keep a lower profile with my obsessiveness for awhile. Since you ask though..... I'm leaning towards a good deal on a Hitachi 42HDM12 monitor that will be sub $2K. It's a HD monitor, the same glass and processing as last years models (like the 42HDT51). The current 42HDT52 has upgraded processing called "VirtualHD 1080p II". The HDM has plain old "VirtualHD" processing. I am able to view the 42HDT51 and find the PQ good. Hitachi has input memory, a very good stretch mode for SD, and a black bezel with silver trim with speakers on the bottom. So, if I go with this, I'll be going the cheap route, lowering my expectations some, and watching for an upgrade in a year or two.

I think the 42" screen will help me tolerate any perception of motion problems. I was reluctant to go back down from 50" since I was getting used to that size, but now that we are watching a 27" 4:3 set again, I think the step up to 42" would be great! :)

Kind of sad to let go of the ideal, but a bit of a relief, too.

I think you changed your sig before I posted that note.

I'm going into my lab tonight to create you the perfect TV. I'll keep you posted on my progress :)

pstrisik

11-16-05, 06:46 PM

I think you changed your sig before I posted that note. Actually, I changed it in response to your post!

I'm going into my lab tonight to create you the perfect TV. I'll keep you posted on my progress :)Alright! Frankenplasma! :eek:

pstrisik

11-16-05, 06:57 PM

I think I promised to post pics of the Pio stretch modes. I took the pics before returning the set, but just had the time to stitch them together.

The SD modes are what most are likely interested in. I like Cinema the best. Just a bit of stretch and a bit of zoom. A good compromise and the end result is not very distorted looking. I like this much better than the Panny "Just" mode and it was one of the reasons I was very reluctant to buy a consumer Panny. (Disclaimer: these were taken for illustration of the stretch modes, not for PQ.)

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4497/stretchmodessd7ly.jpg

I'll put up the HD stretch modes since people have been interested. They are not as useful, but if you have a 4:3 picture on a HD signal, the wide mode will at least fill the screen. This still is from a local news broadcast that is in 4:3 SD, but broadcast on their HD channel.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8254/stretchmodeshd5rf.jpg

Edit: Here is a post with the Panny SD stretch modes for comparison (Panny's don't stretch HD):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6504348&&#post6504348

Hope this is useful!

spinee

11-16-05, 06:59 PM

I have 99% convinced myself to get a Pioneer PDP 5060. My final concern is stuck pixels, which I searched and didn't find too much recent info about. Has anyone here seen stuck pixels on their 1130 or 5060?

no stuck pixels on my 5060, but one that's 2/3 dead: no green or red. bugs me knowing about it, but it's a lot of work to find if i'm standing right in front of the screen...even knowing where it is. and from viewing distance, it's completely invisible, even with a fixed pattern on the screen.

MaliciousBraham

11-16-05, 11:35 PM

Peter and Drew, Thanks for your responses regarding the FAN. I do appreciate it and feel a lot better now.

Another question if you have an answer is regarding the TV Guide. I am subscribed with Adelphia, and as you are probably aware their cable box is a DVR combination, that allows the subscriber to seacrh their own Adelphia guide and choose a program to record, somewhat like a TIVO setup is my guess. Given this background, and I am not sure if Adelphia strips away the TV guide that the 5060 defaults to, when I first switch the set on. Has anyone had any success in setting up the TV guide, given the same background as mine ?. It seems that I may not be able to do this, but please confirm. Also, is there a way to stop the TV guide screen being the first screen to show when I switch the set on ?. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks BEN

This has been posted earlier in the thread... yes it can be turned off.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6368018&highlight=guide+off#post6368018

MaliciousBraham

11-17-05, 01:45 PM

Thanks for the pictures Peter..

(bump ;))

crb595

11-17-05, 02:02 PM

Yoda1

11-17-05, 03:27 PM

It is my understanding that at least for the first 100 hours any 4:3 images should be modifed to fill the entire screen (using whatever option you feel looks the best). But what about DVD's that are are not 16:9 (e.g, Lawrence of Arabia)? Is it O.K. to still have a bit of letterboxing at the top and bottom, or do I need to also fill the screen so as not to cause any potential burn-in? I will be getting my 1130 in a month or so (I am an HD/plasma newbie) and already am having anxiety attacks that I will inadvertently do something stupid to harm my new monitor.

I've been watching 2.35:1 movies and playing videogames on my HP 42PL00N ( it's a rebadged Panasonic) since day one. There's not even a hint of burn-in on the set. I don't think there's anything to worry about. Just watch whatever you want and mix up the content a little. This whole burn-in phenomenon is so overblown.

Marathon Man

11-17-05, 03:46 PM

Hi All,

Just registered - first time post. I've been reading this site religiously for several days now. Great resource, EXCELLENT commentary and knowledge base. It's almost too much information - should be making my decision easier but that does not seem to be the case.

Quick background - this will be my first HDTV/Plasma purchase. Currently have 5 yr. old home theater set up with 36' Sony XBR, Denon AVR 3300, Denon DVD 2500, B&W 804 fronts / 805's rear and Velodyne FSX 12 sub.

Time for a Plasma - have a width space limitation of 49.5" but want the largest screen I can fit.

After initial browsing I was pretty close to going with either Panny 42" 50U or 500U - Consumer Panny's in 50" won't fit in my cabinet. PQ looked great to me. Then discovered the commercial 50' 8UK would fit in the cabinet and read great things about it. Went to a high end Home Theater store - mentioned what I was planning and the guy went into a littany of reasons why I should not consider the 8UK, would end up needing a scaler etc. Long story short he sold me on the Pioneer 1130 which without the speakers will fit in my cabinet. Looks beautiful, loved the PQ so I have one on order. This is where I need some reassurance.

I think I'm excited about the 1130 but the more I scan through avs the more skepical I become. Seems to be very large contingency of very happy Panny users compared to a smaller core group of Pioneer faithful.

I know the end equation comes down to what I'm comfortable with and what my eyes tell me (in this case, both look great to me). However, a little positive reinforcement would be nice. Taking price out of the value equation, is the 1130 as solid and technically advanced a plasma as there is out there today? I've read all of Peter's issues and was bummed out to learn he was sending it back but I'm not sure the things that bothered him will bother me. I know I'm babbling but will someone please tell me that I'm going to love this thing and will never look back.

Thanks.

MM

D-Nice

11-17-05, 04:02 PM

Yoda1

11-17-05, 04:06 PM

jvinsepa

11-17-05, 04:09 PM

I just got the 1130 and I love it with a capital L. Even though I am sitting closer than many people here (about 6-7 feet), I don't see any SDE.

On some purely black and white scenes (such as scrolling credits, old black & white movies, my receiver's OSD setup), I do occasionally see flashes of yellow if I turn my head or blink my eyes. This does not happen on color scenes, and has been documented in other plasma threads.

Also, I do hear some slight buzzing and fan noise, but it does not bother me. Again, this has been noted in other plasma threads.

I am willing to put up with what I just mentioned for superior image quality.

I previously had a 40" sony bravia XBR LCD, which I returned within my eval period. The response time issues and "grey blacks" were causing motion blurring so bad to me that it gave me headaches - and I couldn't see anything in a dark scene, all I saw was a big blob of grey area.

You have made a great choice and I'm sure you will be very happy with the 1130. Please post your views once you get it.

MaliciousBraham

11-17-05, 04:26 PM

If you're questioning your order, may want to make sure you have a 30 day return policy. Thats enough to answer any question you could ever have.

Peter did the same thing. He lost no money in the ordeal because he was able to try it in home for 30 days.

Thats the best garauntee you can have. I had the same, and it was enough time to fall in love with my 1130. I couldnt have anything else now.

This forum is filled with picky, picky eyes. Some like certain things, some like others. Quantitively, you see more good (and more bad, quantatively) about Panasonic because they just plain sell more. The lower pricepoint has more to do with that than anything else, imo. A lot of Pioneer owners (Pioneer plasmas in general, not just the latest generations) dont post a lot because they are happy with their displays. A lot of us are here in this thread to get the absolute most we can from them. The 6G's are still relatively new also. I believe once this thread lays the groundwork of settings and issues, more people will buy.

I dont think there is anyone who knows anything about plasma who can say that Pioneer doesnt have practically the best featureset in the industry, regardless of price. Inputs, outputs, stretch options, adjustability, its all there, with some very small (usually single issue) annoyances. Native size input, for one.

PQ is always subjective, and only you can judge that. Thats why the return policy is important, imo. But on the tangible yes/no issues, Pioneer has waaay more yes answers than any other manufactuer I know of.

pstrisik

11-17-05, 04:29 PM

Just registered - first time post. I've been reading this site religiously for several days now. Great resource, EXCELLENT commentary and knowledge base. It's almost too much information - should be making my decision easier but that does not seem to be the case.Ignorance is bliss? ;)

After initial browsing I was pretty close to going with either Panny 42" 50U or 500U - Consumer Panny's in 50" won't fit in my cabinet. PQ looked great to me. Then discovered the commercial 50' 8UK would fit in the cabinet and read great things about it. Went to a high end Home Theater store - mentioned what I was planning and the guy went into a littany of reasons why I should not consider the 8UK, would end up needing a scaler etc. One or both of the following reasons are why he told you shouldn't buy the 8UK:

1- He doesn't sell them
2- Ignorance is bliss.

Maybe three:

3- He doesn't sell them.

You wouldn't need a scaler, but you would need a source like a tuner cable/sat box, etc. The advantage of the 8UK, btw, is that it is very suited to using a scaler if you want to (more so than consumer plasmas).

Long story short he sold me on the Pioneer 1130 which without the speakers will fit in my cabinet. Looks beautiful, loved the PQ so I have one on order. This is where I need some reassurance.

I think I'm excited about the 1130 but the more I scan through avs the more skepical I become. Seems to be very large contingency of very happy Panny users compared to a smaller core group of Pioneer faithful.

I know the end equation comes down to what I'm comfortable with and what my eyes tell me (in this case, both look great to me). However, a little positive reinforcement would be nice. Taking price out of the value equation, is the 1130 as solid and technically advanced a plasma as there is out there today? I've read all of Peter's issues and was bummed out to learn he was sending it back but I'm not sure the things that bothered him will bother me. I know I'm babbling but will someone please tell me that I'm going to love this thing and will never look back.Another devoted follower of "As the Plasma Turns"! :D Never fear there will be further episodes. The drama never ends.

Seriously, when you've auditioned plasmas, did motion judder bother you? If not, you'll love the 1130. If you still aren't sure, go look at plasmas again and see if you even notice judder. If you have a BB near you, their HD loop is guaranteed to evoke the perception of it if you are at all sensitive.

Malvoe1

11-17-05, 04:45 PM

Can someone tell me the dimensions of the connectors on the cable that goes from the screen to the media box? I have decided to get the 5060, but all of the online stores are out of stock (damn my procrastination!). I am going to pre-order one from either Monitor Outlet or TVA, and it should arrive in the first week of December. However, I'd like to get started working on my wire conduit in the meantime and need to know how big to make it. Unfortunately, I don't have room for a "do it all" 2". Thanks.

Marathon Man

11-17-05, 04:48 PM

Now that's what I'm talking about....Ok I'm feeling good again.

I also had a feeling D-Nice would be the first to respond with the positive vibes.

Yes - on the 30 day policy so I'll go that route.

I've been to BB and Tweeter several times to keep reassuring myself - in fact ran out the door 10 minutes after Peter's return decision to have another look. Yes, if I'm really looking for it I can see some judder but not enough to bug me (I don't think) I guess I really need to set it up in my environment and experiment with HD, SD and DVD's.

We do watch a lot of DVD's - should I think about upgrading my 5 year old Denon DVD 2500, which seems like a fine machine, to a newer unit? Are there new technologies now that will aid the PQ over what I have? Maybe the Denon 2910 or Panasonic S77?

Thanks all.

Regarding the Panasonic (Honda Accord) to Pioneer Elite (Nissan Maxima) can we change the Nissan to a Beemer (pre-2004 body make over that is).....

Malvoe1

11-17-05, 04:57 PM

Marathon - FYI, I have read great things about the S77 and will be ordering one right after I order the TV. Anyone have a suggested site/brand for HDMI cables?

D-Nice

11-17-05, 05:22 PM

Regarding the Panasonic (Honda Accord) to Pioneer Elite (Nissan Maxima) can we change the Nissan to a Beemer (pre-2004 body make over that is).....

Yes we can :)

If you get a 2910 I can give my custom settings for a HDMI connection. You may also want to look at the Pioneer 79avi. I heard it is a great player and I will be picking one up myself.

apru

11-17-05, 05:33 PM

Can anyone tell me if any of the newest commerical Pioneer display, I think it's model PDP-504CMX, uses the 6th generation panel glass. The web site doesnt seem to be clear on this point. thx

D-Nice

11-17-05, 05:34 PM

No they don't

MaliciousBraham

11-17-05, 06:03 PM

Marathon - FYI, I have read great things about the S77 and will be ordering one right after I order the TV. Anyone have a suggested site/brand for HDMI cables?

If the run is short, and there is very little interference present, I go with the cheapest HDMI I can find. I do this only for Digital cables. analog is a different story.

Otherwise go with whatever you feel comfortable with. I bought some elcheapo ones at svideo(dot)com . I think you will like their prices. I am happy with the products. But for the price, you can almost just eat the cost if you dont like them. they are not well insulated, you wouldnt expect them to be for that price.

J_bryan

11-17-05, 07:43 PM

pstrisik

11-17-05, 07:49 PM

Peter,

Thanks so much for taking time to post the stretch modes. I agree that the cinema mode looks quite good on the Pio. I am a bit disappointed about the HD stretch modes. They are not very useful. :( I truly fail to see the logic behind manufacturers (including Panasonic) that design new and sophisticated products that fall short on the most basic real world applications of that product.
You will likely need HD stretch very seldom. In a pinch, at least Pio gives you "wide". Panny doesn't give you anything.

BTW, I am currently investigating Hitachi and have found that Hitachi seems to have the best of all for SD (I didn't check for HD stretch). They have a mode that is similar to "cinema" in the Pio... a little stretch, a little zoom. But they also add the ability to move the picture up or down in that mode and any mode that zooms (with the remote and without going into the menus). Very cool.

Blackspyrit

11-17-05, 11:12 PM

Marathon - FYI, I have read great things about the S77 and will be ordering one right after I order the TV. Anyone have a suggested site/brand for HDMI cables?

I've bought HDMI cables from monoprice.com which are very reasonable, and work perfectly well.

pstrisik

11-18-05, 12:20 AM

PCANDPLASMA is not on Pioneer's authorized internet dealer list (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/two/0,,2076_83644739_277297187,00.html) and therefore Pioneer will not honor the warranty. They are also selling Elites online, which Pioneer doesn't allow.

As Dirty Harry would say, "Do you feel lucky?"

(after all, we are about movies, eh?)

Blackspyrit

11-18-05, 08:20 AM

The site seems legitimate, but that price seems too good to be true. I would proceed with caution.

Glashub

11-18-05, 08:56 AM

Would you buy from a company that is listed like this with Network Solutions?

Organization:
xxxxxxxxx.inc
xxx xxx
xxxxxxxx
Brooklyn, NY 11111
US
Phone: 111-111-1111
Fax..: 111-111-1111

Registrar Name....: Register.com
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com

Domain Name: PCANDPLASMA.COM

Created on..............: Wed, Nov 19, 2003
Expires on..............: Sat, Nov 19, 2005
Record last updated on..: Fri, Nov 26, 2004

Administrative Contact:
xxxxxxxxx.inc
xxx xxx
xxxxxxxx
Brooklyn, NY 11111
US
Phone: 111-111-1111
Fax..: 111-111-1111

Technical Contact:
xxxxxxxxx.inc
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Brooklyn, NY 11111
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Phone: 111-111-1111
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RandyWalters

11-18-05, 09:02 AM

Can anyone tell me if any of the newest commerical Pioneer display, I think it's model PDP-504CMX, uses the 6th generation panel glass. The web site doesnt seem to be clear on this point. thxActually the 504CMX has been out for over a year (my friend bought one in early Nov last year). One thing that really bugs him is the lack of any sort of non-linear stretch mode on their commercial models. He discovered this after he got it set up in his house and tuned to all his favorite news channels (he's a big SD news watcher). He would have returned it for this reason alone but his vendor doesn't take returns so he begrudgingly puts up with it. Their consumer models have the best SD stretch modes, i just wish they'd include them on their commercial models as well as making them all available for HD content on the consumer models. That might have been enough for me to choose the Pioneer instead of the Panny i bought instead.

Ignoramous

11-18-05, 09:09 AM

Definitely proceed with caution. The Brooklyn, NY address is most worrisome. Check other threads and you'll get an idea of the reputation most companies based in Brooklyn have.

I think peace of mind is worth that.

JohnnyRose

11-18-05, 11:53 AM

I just bought the new dv-79avi yesterday and this morning I had my whole system pulled out to hook it up. I bought a fire wire cable to connect between my 79avi and Integra Research RDC 7.1.

As Im looking at the back of the 1130 MR, I see the two firewire ports and I think to myself "wow! I forgot about these, I'll buy another firewire cable and use it to connect the 1130 to the RDC 7.1 too".

Not so fast........I check the 1130 Owners Manual to read up on the firewire ports and I find that the 1130 firewire ports are only compatable with D-VHS units and nothing else.

How can Pioneer release two Elite video products within 60 days of each other (both with firewire ports) and not have firewire compatability? Im guessing this must have something to do with copy protection or some other legal issue because I cant imagine it was a design consideration.

John

mswlogo

11-18-05, 12:14 PM

Hey Marathon Man, I think we met in BB and Tweeter the other day, is that you?

send me an email at mswlogo <at> hotmail <dot> com

jvinsepa

11-18-05, 12:51 PM

I would like to share my settings that I am using from a TWC SA 8300 cable box via HDMI. Please let me know what you think....

Main Menu:
AV Selection: User
Contrast: 25
Brightness: -3
Color: -16
Tint: -2
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Standard
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High: -2
G High: -3
B High: -2
R Low: -2
G Low: -3
B Low: -1
CTI: Off
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: -7
G: 0
C: +6
B: 0
M: -1
NR:
DNR: Low
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

I tried these settings and I still have an overall washed out picture, like I used to have on my LCD. I actually put my color back to 0 because your setting of -16 was way too low for me.

I was expecting the "3D" look in that the black parts of the image were the same black as the bezel (I have heard that plasmas have the ability to completely turn off a pixel if it is in a black area of the scene - is this true, and how do I have it do this?), and shadow detail is close to what you would see in real life.

I've seen pix of the 6th gen pioneers where they show this effect. Maybe it was just the camera creating that illusion, as I never saw this on a real-live display yet... but I know it's possible. I bought a plasma to get good black level and I refuse to believe that this is as good as it gets. I watch a lot of dark movies and I don't really care if I have to sacrifice some brightness in bright scenes if I can get superb black level in dark scenes.

My question - is the washed out look of my black level because it is a new panel and I have to keep the contrast at this low level for the first 100 hours? I see in post #977, someone suggested settings that included contrast at 36. Would this help or hurt, and if it would create a more 3D-like image, would it be a bad idea to do it before 100 hours? Also, what is the purpose of changing the individual high/low colors and color management?

lhamp

11-18-05, 06:23 PM

I tried these settings and I still have an overall washed out picture, like I used to have on my LCD. I actually put my color back to 0 because your setting of -16 was way too low for me.

I was expecting the "3D" look in that the black parts of the image were the same black as the bezel (I have heard that plasmas have the ability to completely turn off a pixel if it is in a black area of the scene - is this true, and how do I have it do this?), and shadow detail is close to what you would see in real life.

I've seen pix of the 6th gen pioneers where they show this effect. Maybe it was just the camera creating that illusion, as I never saw this on a real-live display yet... but I know it's possible. I bought a plasma to get good black level and I refuse to believe that this is as good as it gets. I watch a lot of dark movies and I don't really care if I have to sacrifice some brightness in bright scenes if I can get superb black level in dark scenes.

My question - is the washed out look of my black level because it is a new panel and I have to keep the contrast at this low level for the first 100 hours? I see in post #977, someone suggested settings that included contrast at 36. Would this help or hurt, and if it would create a more 3D-like image, would it be a bad idea to do it before 100 hours? Also, what is the purpose of changing the individual high/low colors and color management?

Not that it will change your perception that much, but I don't think these are his latest settings.

Mystify

11-18-05, 07:31 PM

MaliciousBraham

11-18-05, 07:55 PM

Rolodoc

11-18-05, 08:04 PM

I've been around here lurking for a while trying to decide what plasma to buy. Well tonight I made my choice thanks to THIS (http://www.*******************.com/plasmatvreviews/pioneer-elite-plasma-review.html) review and this forum. I bought the 1130 and get delivery next week. I can't wait.

I just have to say thanks to all that give their input on this site. It really is much appreciated.

As a side question, does anyone here use the oppo dvd player with their Elite and mind sharing their experiences?

Another obvious mistake is the resolution quoted by the review:

Model: PRO-1130HD (package contains PRO-505PU panel and media receiver)
Description: 50-inch Plasma TV, 16:9 Widescreen Format
Resolution: 1,024 x 768

The actual resolution is 1280x768. Besides these obvious errors, the review was very positive:

"Color handling, dark matter detailing, de-interlacing, and scaling are all top-notch on the Pioneer Elite 1130HD. Its picture is nothing short of astounding."

seeingdouble

11-18-05, 08:27 PM

I too have been lurking for quite a while on the various AVS forums. I was originally planning to buy the SXRD, then decided to wait for the new 56" 1080P JVCs, but the first store I went to that carried that model had a bulb blow and took it off the floor. After one final look at the SXRD I made the decision to buy, and headed out of the store. On the way out I passed a 5060HD and was smitten. Just to make sure it wasn't a fluke, I spent the past few weeks looking at every one I could find in a 3 state area.

While at a BB Magnolia I also saw 2 other sets that caught my eye. The first was a Panny 50PX500U, which had the first good picture I have seen on that model (probably just me but I tend to see a lot of false contouring in store setups for that brand). Since these sets are about the same price as the Pio and pretty much out of stock right now (and unlikely to come in before the new year), I decided to pass on that one. The second was an 1130HD Pioneer Elite - it appeared to be even better than the 5060 and the Fujitsu that were on either side of it... Double - WOW!

Due to the cost difference, I decided to go with the 5060. Initially I thought I would go with an unauthorized dealer to save some money, but was told that not only would I not receive a Pioneer warranty, but extended warranties were out of the question also.

Well, to make an already too-long story short, I spend the afternoon talking to most of the authorized Pioneer dealers out there. I spoke with some really nice people, in particular the people at Coza, Invision, and 6th Ave. After making the purchase with 6th, I realized I used the wrong credit card (decided to use one that gives me air miles). When I spoke to Steven who heads their plasma department, we began to talk Elite, and OMG, I can actually decided I could afford that unit (although I suspect we will be eating a lot of SPAM over the holidays).

I am really psyched, and cannot wait for the 1130 to come. I am already building a shrine to house it.

Thanks to everyone on the AVS Forums, the information has been extremely valuable, and I promise to provide feedback as soon as the set arrives.

D-Nice

11-18-05, 08:41 PM

The photo in that article of the back of the MR looks nothing like mine......

Looks like the 1120

Nuzy

11-18-05, 10:33 PM

After making the purchase with 6th, I realized I used the wrong credit card (decided to use one that gives me air miles). When I spoke to Steven who heads their plasma department, we began to talk Elite, and OMG, I can actually decided I could afford that unit (although I suspect we will be eating a lot of SPAM over the holidays).

I am really psyched, and cannot wait for the 1130 to come. I am already building a shrine to house it.

Authorized on-line dealer or not, I thought Elite's couldn't be sold over the internet, period. The only Elites I've seen listed on the internet are from unauthorized dealers. Just curious, has this policy changed since 6 months ago when I bought my Pio plasma?

Nuzy

Blackspyrit

11-18-05, 11:28 PM

Authorized on-line dealer or not, I thought Elite's couldn't be sold over the internet, period. The only Elites I've seen listed on the internet are from unauthorized dealers. Just curious, has this policy changed since 6 months ago when I bought my Pio plasma?

Nuzy

6th ave sells online, but they also have b&m stores in NJ. Maybe they can get around the policy due to this fact?

Nuzy

11-18-05, 11:40 PM

6th ave sells online, but they also have b&m stores in NJ. Maybe they can get around the policy due to this fact?
I thought about that too, but TVA has a store in southern california and I'm pretty sure they don't sell Elite's via internet or phone. Then again, it could be their own choice.

jvinsepa

11-19-05, 12:03 AM

Not that it will change your perception that much, but I don't think these are his latest settings.

What do you recommend for the type of effect I am looking for?

cheridave

11-19-05, 12:15 AM

Pioneer has all the "Authorized" dealers on their web site.

Everybody else that sells the "Elite" ARE NOT "Authorized by Pioneer.

TVA is listed on their site but can only sell the 5060 and not the "Elite".

It is not their choice but the policy of Pioneer.

Buyers should beware and research all avenues before purchase.

Dave

MaliciousBraham

11-19-05, 12:15 AM

Looks like the 1120

i wonder about the truthfullness of that review... with all that sugar coating, M&M's could make a fortune off it.

Looks like a bad rehash of an 1120 review. TV Guide wasnt mentioned at all that I saw...

liy

11-19-05, 05:07 PM

:D Well, after much soul searching, forum reading, etc., I have decided to go with the 1130. Will be in around December 13 - Magnolia (BB). (Moving a 4 year old Pio 5030 upstairs).

Some questions still remain - mostly related to CableCard and HDMI (HDCP) connections - the most pressing of which is "Is it possible to extract Dolby Digital 5.1 sound through these connections?" - Unbelievably, even when I suggested that I was in the market for an HDMI capable AV receiver, the salesman seemed clueless on this topic, with no one to ask!

Doesn't someone on this forum know for sure?

Thank you.

LIY

eelton

11-19-05, 05:15 PM

liy

11-19-05, 05:22 PM

I'm not using any HDMI inputs (defective HDMI output on my HD TiVo), but I can tell you that I'm getting Dolby Digital 5.1 sound from my CableCard.

Could you expand a bit on your setup. Is everything going through the TV speakers or are you running into an AV receiver, etc?

Thank you!

LIY

ASP111

11-19-05, 06:33 PM

WTF? Why does the VGA input have to be in the front of the media receiver?

lhamp

11-19-05, 07:26 PM

I have an elite 930... had it for about three weeks now and I absolutely love it. One problem though... I just noticed on very white scenes that there seems to be a slight burn-in line where my cable box guide comes on (I have a scientific atlanta 8300...which, for some reason shows the guide as 4x3 even when the image is 16x9). The line is predominantly on the left side, but there may in fact be one on the right as well... it's a light pink-ish color. Not sure what to do... I keep my contrast very low (I think it's, like 25 or 26 right now) and my brightness is around the middle. I've owned plasmas before and never had this problem. Any ideas of what I should do?

I'm going to post a new thread on this as I'm pretty concerned.

lhamp

11-19-05, 07:35 PM

Quick note... not sure it's where my cable guide is or where the settings menu comes on (there in about the same spot)... in either case, it shouldn't be there.

D-Nice

11-19-05, 08:20 PM

D-Nice

11-19-05, 08:22 PM

mswlogo

11-19-05, 11:32 PM

Ok, yet another pending buyer torn between panny and pio.

I have a pre-order in at TVAuthority for a 5060 but still doing research.

After reading this entire pio thread I started to consider the panny. Then I started reading that monster panny thread (backwards because it's too huge) and after just 10 pages I'm back in pio camp.

This is what i've summarized so far partly doing this for myself but I might as well share:

Panny Pros:

Cheaper
Slight Smoother
Less noise issues (Double Glass quiet fans internal)
1366 horiz pixels on the 50"

Panny Cons:

Channel drop out issues.
SD issues
Odd unexplained video glitches (e.g. 480p, SD)
Pushed Reds and other color issues (some say break-in reduces issues)
CableCard issues (software download may fix)
Bulky ugly cabinet (8UK is ok)
Heavy
Double Glass reflections at extreme angle on extreme contrast image (very minor)
Less color punch
Quite a few complaints of above average buzz in panel
Floating blacks
Can't zoom HD material
Can't zoom anything on Component inputs
Only one RF input even though it has both tuners.

Pio Pros:

Narrow gloss black frame
Light weight
Punchy Colors
ISF Calibration possible
Dual HDMI
Less power cooler etc. (very minor)
Can zoom HD material
Seperate Media Box.

Pio Cons:

Cost
Screen noise (lack of double glass)
Fan noise in media box
Fans on when in standby
Minor judder on select material
Quite a few references to bad pixels
1280 horiz pixels on the 50"
Less stable company at the moment

I've spent a hunk of money on audio and I am extremely sensitive to unnecessary noise. I can hear tooth brush charging in the bathroom from the bedroom. In the trash that electric tooth brush goes. I'll be about 11 ft from screen.

So I think I can deal with most of the Pio Cons.

Screen noise: I can deal with a little noise while watching a movie.
Fan noise: If bad, I will consider removing cover and shut off fans. Or put in closed cabinet.
Fan always on: I’ll consider just shutting the box AC power off if I have to, I don’t care that much about TV-Guide.
Cost: Get a 5060, can't justify Elite with the rate electronics go obsolete.
Judder: Cross my fingers that I don’t develop a sensitivity to it like he who should not be named did.
Bad pixels: Buy from place that will do exchange.

Weight is an issue for me because that’s what started this whole purchase thing as my CRT is too heavy to set on a very large center speaker. Meridian DSP5500HC.

While reading this thread, not one complaint on picture quality except the judder issue by he who should not be named. There seemed quite a few in the panny thread and it was pretty disturbing. Not one problem on finding channels. My old sony is a first generation and it’s at its limits trying to pull stuff in and does ok for first generation. I want a solid tuner. I will do the video essentials but beyond that I won’t tweak, so I suspect 5060 will be ok for me. Crappy stand might be an issue but that can be solved a few different ways. I did not see one reference to stuck pixel on panny but I stopped reading after so many other issues. It may be the same.

Hopes this helps anyone thinking about the two.

mswlogo

11-19-05, 11:37 PM

It would be real nice if this could be sticky.
It will encourage folks to stick to this one thread.

D-Nice

11-19-05, 11:51 PM

Ok, yet another pending buyer torn between panny and pio.

I have a pre-order in at TVAuthority for a 5060 but still doing research.

After reading this entire pio thread I started to consider the panny. Then I started reading that monster panny thread (backwards because it's too huge) and after just 10 pages I'm back in pio camp.

This is what i've summarized so far partly doing this for myself but I might as well share:

Panny Pros:

Cheaper
Slight Smoother
Less noise issues (Double Glass quiet fans internal)

Panny Cons:

Channel drop out issues.
SD issues
Odd unexplained video glitches (e.g. 480p, SD)
Pushed Reds and other color issues (some say break-in reduces issues)
CableCard issues (software download may fix)
Bulky ugly cabinet (8UK is ok)
Heavy
Double Glass reflections at extreme angle on extreme contrast image (very minor)
Less color punch

Pio Pros:

Narrow gloss black frame
Light weight
Punchy Colors
ISF Calibration possible
Dual HDMI
Less power cooler etc. (very minor)

Pio Cons:

Cost
Screen noise (lack of double glass)
Fan noise in media box
Fans on when in standby
Minor judder on select material
Quite a few references to bad pixels

I've spent a hunk of money on audio and I am extremely sensitive to unnecessary noise. I can hear tooth brush charging in the bathroom from the bedroom. In the trash that electric tooth brush goes. I'll be about 11 ft from screen.

So I think I can deal with most of the Pio Cons.

Screen noise: I can deal with a little noise while watching a movie.
Fan noise: If bad, I will consider removing cover and shut off fans. Or put in closed cabinet.
Fan always on: I’ll consider just shutting the box AC power off if I have to, I don’t care that much about TV-Guide.
Cost: Get a 5060, can't justify Elite with the rate electronics go obsolete.
Judder: Cross my fingers that I don’t develop a sensitivity to it like he who should not be named did.
Bad pixels: Buy from place that will do exchange.

Weight is an issue for me because that’s what started this whole purchase thing as my CRT is too heavy to set on a very large center speaker. Meridian DSP5500HC.

While reading this thread, not one complaint on picture quality except the judder issue by he who should not be named. There seemed quite a few in the panny thread and it was pretty disturbing. Not one problem on finding channels. My old sony is was first generation and it’s at it’s limits trying to pull stuff in and does ok for first generation. I want a solid tuner. I will do the video essentials but beyond that I won’t tweak, so I suspect 5060 will be ok for me. Crappy stand might be an issue but that can be solved a few different ways. I did not see one reference to stuck pixel on panny but I stopped reading after so many other issues. It may be the same.

Hopes this helps anyone thinking about the two.

I guess you summed things up pretty well. You don't see any complaints about the picture because the owners love the picture (that should really tell you something). The 6Gs have a very solid tuner and you should not have any problems with it IF you read the manual first. When you get your 5060, go into the power save menu and put it on save2. That should minimize and buzz from the panel, if there is any.

liy

11-20-05, 09:28 AM

You may be able to get it from the cable card and then pass it thru the optical output but you will not be able to do the same with HDMI.

Could someone give this a try - or do I have to do everything myself? :rolleyes:

LIY

bonkuba

11-20-05, 10:24 AM

I am planning on purchasing either the 5061 (BB) or the Samsung HPR5052. Everyone on here has been fantastic in helping me make up my mind. I believe I am going with the 5061. This will be my first Plama purchase (actually first anything other than a CRT purchase).

My question may seem silly, but i am new so I apologize. I am prepared to spend the $$ and have done my research on prices at BB and other places.

Again, sorry for the noob question. But for the money I thought I would ask you guys since it is such a huge investment for me.

As for what I thought about the Display. I had the Sammy and the Pio 5061 side by side at the last BB and it seemed a lot more vivid than the Sammy as well as the blacks were darker IMO.

I may purchase today if you guys believe I wont be sorry I did......and didnt wait until the day after thanksgiving for a better deal.

Again, thank you for all of the great posts on here helping someone new like me understand the differences.

Sean

D-Nice

11-20-05, 10:35 AM

I haven't seen or heard of any after Thanksgiving sale on the Pioneers at BB. The nearest time you will see a slight price reduction would be Christmas.

Vashti

11-20-05, 10:56 AM

I saw a website that had links to circulars from lots of major stores for after Thanksgiving specials. BB didn't have any Pioneer plasmas listed in their circular. Sorry I can't remember the website.

gdav

11-20-05, 10:57 AM

Forget about stuck pixels; you don't want this happening to you.
My 1130 arrived yesterday and I was all set for a marathon session that, alas, was not to be. This thread did not prepare me for my experience: opening the box and finding your expensive new plasma screen is cracked!
The boxes were all in a1 condition, the surface of the glass was fine but internally there were some branched stress fractures.
I found out that I am not the first this has happened to.

For some reason, I now have to wait another month for the next delivery.
I wonder what it took to produce that kind of damage and how concerned I should be.

Blackspyrit

11-20-05, 11:00 AM

Playmaker,

In the service menu, I scroll to the panel facts screen, then panel works. There is a line that states:
HR-MTR 000192H 47M
Is this the number of my panel hours?

D-Nice,

Do you know if the above is correct?

bonkuba

11-20-05, 11:09 AM

I haven't seen or heard of any after Thanksgiving sale on the Pioneers at BB. The nearest time you will see a slight price reduction would be Christmas.

Does BB gurantee the price I purchase...so I would be protected if it goes down at Christmas, etc?

Again, my apologies for the non-tech question on the thread. This will be the last.

Thank you for the help. I am just concerned since it willbe such a big purchase for me. I just want to make certain (or feel better) that if I purchase now I wont be sorry I did in the next 30 days or so (meaning better christmas prices, etc).

Thanks,

Sean

D-Nice

11-20-05, 11:17 AM

Actually I think they do have a 30 day price guarantee.

D-Nice

11-20-05, 11:18 AM

D-Nice,

Do you know if the above is correct?

That's correct.

D-Nice

11-20-05, 11:20 AM

eelton

11-20-05, 11:36 AM

Could you expand a bit on your setup. Is everything going through the TV speakers or are you running into an AV receiver, etc?

Thank you!

LIYI'm not using the Pioneer's speakers at all. For CableCard, I'm using the Pioneer's optical output to my preamp/processor, which give 5.1 sound. For other sources (TiVo, HD TiVo, and DVD), the digital outputs from those sources go to the preamp/processor; they aren't connected to the Pioneer. Therefore, I can't address your HDMI question.

bonkuba

11-20-05, 12:02 PM

Does the display itself receive the remote IR signal or does the media center receive? I ask this question since my media cabinet may not have glass, etc. My wife is going for a more tradidional look for the furniture (well old feel I guess).

Sean

liy

11-20-05, 12:04 PM

I'm not using the Pioneer's speakers at all. For CableCard, I'm using the Pioneer's optical output to my preamp/processor, which give 5.1 sound. For other sources (TiVo, HD TiVo, and DVD), the digital outputs from those sources go to the preamp/processor; they aren't connected to the Pioneer. Therefore, I can't address your HDMI question.

Thank you. On that basis, I think I'll give the CableCard a try!!

LIY :)

ASP111

11-20-05, 12:48 PM

mswlogo

11-20-05, 12:54 PM

I thought the remote was RF to the media box? If it's IR to the screen thats great.

D-Nice

11-20-05, 01:10 PM

I thought the remote was RF to the media box? If it's IR to the screen thats great.

The IR is on the display in the lower right corner.

joker454

11-20-05, 01:53 PM

I'm also considering both the Pioneer PDP-5060HD and the Panasonic TH-50PX500U and I'm just curious about pricing. It seems like these forums/threads always list the Pioneer as costing somewhat more, but in a quick internet search I find the reverse to be the case, the Panasonic is usually a few hundred more! Why is cost still listed as a con on the Pioneer 5060 when its cheaper than the Pannasonic 50PX500U online?

eb5338

11-20-05, 03:27 PM

Hi,

I just got my 930 the other day. Just wanted to thank you all for your help in sorting out the options for plasma displays. This set rocks.

One question though as I'm setting up the display. I've noticed that while watching TV, whether it be a HD signal or SD, I get a little noise. I see a bunch of white specks across the screen - I mostly notice it when the screen is supposed to be black. It almost looks like white noise, but not nearly that bad.

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with my cable box, not the display. I've played several DVDs (and even some old VHS tapes) and do not have the specks showing up at all. Thus, I think it has something to do with the cable box?? In any event, I can change the "intensity" of the specks when watching cable by changing the picture settings - the specks seem to be worse when using "dynamic" than "standard" or "movie."

Is this just a problem with my cable box, or should I be looking at something else? I have the cable box hooked up to the video receiver through a DVI to HDMI cable.

Thanks in advance for your help

D-Nice

11-20-05, 04:44 PM

D-Nice

11-20-05, 08:45 PM

MSRP you are correct. But, who actually is stupid enough to pay MSRP when you can get it cheaper at an authorized dealer?

Blackspyrit

11-20-05, 08:51 PM

That's correct.

Thanks!

yoscott

11-20-05, 10:06 PM

Joker454 & Treasure Hunter,

I, like lots of other people, have been looking at the 5060hd for some time now and would love to pull the trigger on getting one of these sets. Believe it or not, I actually ended up going to Pioneer's website on Friday and then calling EVERY authorized e-tailer on their list to find out who's got the 5060hd and what they are selling it for. In a nutshell, most retailers were within a few hundred bucks of each other, and most of them did not have any in stock.

Here's the deal. Pioneer will NOT authorize any sort of their factory warranty when you buy their TVs from someone that is NOT listed on their authorized seller list. That, and Pioneer does NOT authorize any of their sellers to sell their plasmas on eBay. There is a slight catch to this, though. IF you go to Pioneer's website and click the authorized seller link, at the bottom of the page is listed which sets that each seller is permitted to sell. In other words, one of their authorized sellers may be certified to sell their professional line of plasmas, but not the Purevision models. Are you following me?? So someone listed on their authorized seller page could actually be selling you something that they ARE NOT certififed to sell you.

Now, can you find a better deal through either an un-authorized seller OR through eBay??? Yes, you can. But it truly becomes buyer beware. Plus, for what I have seen some of the 5060s go on eBay for, you can have the same exact from an authorized seller for almost the same amount of money--maybe a couple hundred dollars extra. If you have seen the px500 for MORE than the 5060hd, then you are almost assuredly buying it from someone who is NOT an authorized Pioneer retailer.

IMHO, if you can afford to spend over "X" amount of dollars for a 5060hd on eBay, then do yourself a favor and drop a few hundred more to get it from a legitimate source, that way you are insured with your warranty and some peace of mind. If you are spending that kind of money and cannot pony up the extra couple hundred of dollars to buy it from a legit source, then get yourself a Panasonic or, hell, a Maxvent for that matter and call it a day.........

gdav

11-21-05, 01:28 AM

Ouch. Sorry that happened to you. It is very rare for any plasma to arrive with a cracked screen. Hope things work out for you and you get one in a few weeks instead of a month.
The funny thing is I'm getting a Pany loaner while I wait for the replacement. So, I'll have a month to evaluate anew why I didn't want to go that route :) .

jvinsepa

11-21-05, 08:55 AM

You can exchange the media box; it's not specially matched to the panel. In fact, the same media box is used for the 43 and 50 inch models.

You could consider turning off the fans in the service menu. I tried it briefly, and the box didn't seem to get very warm. From what I've read, the heat is more of a concern if you're using a CableCard (which I am now), so I turned the fans back on.

The panel buzz with bright scenes is also normal, although it can vary a bit from one panel to another. I haven't found it at all objectionable.

How do you turn off the fan in the service menu and make it "stick"? I found out how to do it - and it does get rid of the noise I was hearing - but, as soon as I go back into normal operation, the fans start up again!

It's like I am missing a place in the service menu where I have to save the settings.

eelton

11-21-05, 09:10 AM

How do you turn off the fan in the service menu and make it "stick"? I found out how to do it - and it does get rid of the noise I was hearing - but, as soon as I go back into normal operation, the fans start up again!

It's like I am missing a place in the service menu where I have to save the settings.That's interesting. I only tried it temporarily, so I didn't notice that limitation.

jvinsepa

11-21-05, 10:17 AM

That's interesting. I only tried it temporarily, so I didn't notice that limitation.

Since I don't use the tuner or tvguide (I have an external STB with DVR), I would like to turn the fans off permanently. I guess I could open the MR and unplug the fan or replace it with a quieter fan, but that would void the 2-year warranty that comes with the elites.

Malvoe1

11-21-05, 11:15 AM

I ordered my 5060 from MonitorOutlet on Friday. The new shipment of PDPs is supposed to come in this week or (more likely) next. I also considered TVA, but decided that the extra money they charge to give you the option of returning the TV wasn't worth it for me. Both companies have been excellent to deal with.

spinee

11-21-05, 12:56 PM

i haven't seen any reference to this, so maybe it's just something that everybody but me knows about pioneers, but on my 5060 there are maybe 2 rows of "unused" pixels on top & bottom, and 6-7 unused columns on either side.

my first thought was "underscan", but test patterns show 5-7% of overscan, so i'm seeing every pixel being addressed by the media receiver. this is on all inputs, all sources and antenna as well.

i immediately panicked and thought "gotta do something about this before i start seeing burn-out!" (what's the reverse of burn-in?) but then i thought: this is a pixel-mapped display. unlike my familiar CRT's, if i'm addressing 1280x768, there's really no way to adjust the size up or down without causing some kind of artifact. does pio build these panels with a little "extra" so adjustment can be made upon installation? after seeing this, i checked every 5060 & 1130 in my vicinity, and all showed exactly the same effect. so at this point, i'm leaning toward "that's the pioneer way", though no other brands of plasmas i've looked at display this quirk.

short of getting a magic marker and marking off each line of lit pixels :eek: and counting them, i have no idea how to make sure i'm seeing all the pixels i've paid for.

Malvoe1

11-21-05, 03:12 PM

For those of you who hung their TV, what mount have you used? Thanks.

Mystify

11-21-05, 03:43 PM

For those of you who hung their TV, what mount have you used? Thanks.

I get my 1130 on Wednesday, but I've got my mount already. Its the peerless SP850. Its brand new and it is an ultra thin 2 inches thick.

http://www.peerlessindustries.com/product_images/extra/sp850_1.jpg

LINK (http://www.peerlessindustries.com/profile.cfm?ut=I&id=850SP&sg=New)

MaliciousBraham

11-21-05, 04:05 PM

For those of you who hung their TV, what mount have you used? Thanks.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6314774&highlight=peerless#post6314774

I used the Peerless PSWT PION50 mount... it is a good mount, but did flex some when the plasma was hung on it. Its stable and I have no worries with it, but I would probably use something different if I had to do it over again.

Deathstalker

11-21-05, 04:33 PM

Ok, yet another pending buyer torn between panny and pio.

I have a pre-order in at TVAuthority for a 5060 but still doing research.

After reading this entire pio thread I started to consider the panny. Then I started reading that monster panny thread (backwards because it's too huge) and after just 10 pages I'm back in pio camp.

This is what i've summarized so far partly doing this for myself but I might as well share:

Panny Pros:

Cheaper
Slight Smoother
Less noise issues (Double Glass quiet fans internal)
1366 horiz pixels on the 50"

Panny Cons:

Channel drop out issues.
SD issues
Odd unexplained video glitches (e.g. 480p, SD)
Pushed Reds and other color issues (some say break-in reduces issues)
CableCard issues (software download may fix)
Bulky ugly cabinet (8UK is ok)
Heavy
Double Glass reflections at extreme angle on extreme contrast image (very minor)
Less color punch

Pio Pros:

Narrow gloss black frame
Light weight
Punchy Colors
ISF Calibration possible
Dual HDMI
Less power cooler etc. (very minor)

Pio Cons:

Cost
Screen noise (lack of double glass)
Fan noise in media box
Fans on when in standby
Minor judder on select material
Quite a few references to bad pixels
1280 horiz pixels on the 50"

I've spent a hunk of money on audio and I am extremely sensitive to unnecessary noise. I can hear tooth brush charging in the bathroom from the bedroom. In the trash that electric tooth brush goes. I'll be about 11 ft from screen.

So I think I can deal with most of the Pio Cons.

Screen noise: I can deal with a little noise while watching a movie.
Fan noise: If bad, I will consider removing cover and shut off fans. Or put in closed cabinet.
Fan always on: I’ll consider just shutting the box AC power off if I have to, I don’t care that much about TV-Guide.
Cost: Get a 5060, can't justify Elite with the rate electronics go obsolete.
Judder: Cross my fingers that I don’t develop a sensitivity to it like he who should not be named did.
Bad pixels: Buy from place that will do exchange.

Weight is an issue for me because that’s what started this whole purchase thing as my CRT is too heavy to set on a very large center speaker. Meridian DSP5500HC.

While reading this thread, not one complaint on picture quality except the judder issue by he who should not be named. There seemed quite a few in the panny thread and it was pretty disturbing. Not one problem on finding channels. My old sony is a first generation and it’s at its limits trying to pull stuff in and does ok for first generation. I want a solid tuner. I will do the video essentials but beyond that I won’t tweak, so I suspect 5060 will be ok for me. Crappy stand might be an issue but that can be solved a few different ways. I did not see one reference to stuck pixel on panny but I stopped reading after so many other issues. It may be the same.

Hopes this helps anyone thinking about the two.

mswlogo,

I have yet to notice any noise coming from the Panel, I do sit 12' away from the 5060. I have it on the wall and when walking by it, I still do not notice any noise. (It could be I keep the receiver cranked too loud though. :eek: )

When it comes to PQ, and WAF, it cannot be beat. I have been extremely happy with the PQ and since my wife loves the look of the Panel (she could care less about PQ only how it looks on the wall when not turned on) all it good. :cool:

Take Care,

Richard

cliff1371

11-21-05, 10:41 PM

Been lurking these forums for a couple of years learning about plasmas and waiting for the prices to drop. I had planned on buying the Panny 500u BUT i bought what i really wanted and pulled the trigger on a 50" Pioneer Pro1130.

Are there any current owners out there? Also does anyone have any recommendations as far as breaking this set in to avoid burn-in? How about optimal settings? Any advice is greatly appreciated and thanks to all for your knowledge.

D-Nice

11-21-05, 11:06 PM

cammot

11-22-05, 11:36 AM

[QUOTE=spinee]i haven't seen any reference to this, so maybe it's just something that everybody but me knows about pioneers, but on my 5060 there are maybe 2 rows of "unused" pixels on top & bottom, and 6-7 unused columns on either side.

This is also an issue I have seen with my 5060, I was not sure how to best describe the problem. Said another way, it seems more like an screen alignment adjustment issue, that is only seen on some of the HD channels such as ABC and NBC, but I have also seen the same issue occur on other HD channels too. This is a channels specific issue of alignment that occurs at the very top row and across the screen, the line appears as a flickering line, and maybe more than just one row, if magnified. It seems to me just like how one would adjust for alignment in a regular monitor, where one could take the picture up or down by way of adjustment, so that the picture has nothing above it on the screen.

The question, is this normal or an external issue with the broadcast being that way, or is there a way to adjust the screen alignment. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

BEN

D-Nice

11-22-05, 11:45 AM

lhamp

11-22-05, 12:49 PM

cliff1371,

Here are some baseline settings to start you out...

Main Menu:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 25
Brightness: -2
Color: +4
Tint: 2
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Off
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High: -2
G High: -3
B High: -2
R Low: -2
G Low: -3
B Low: -1
CTI: Off
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: -7
G: 0
C: +6
B: 0
M: -1
NR:
DNR: Low
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

Make sure you go into the options menu and turn the power save mode to save2.

D-Nice.... thanks for the settings, they look fantasic. I noticed you bumped up the color since your earlier "pure" settings... it seems to make a big difference.

D-Nice

11-22-05, 01:46 PM

D-Nice.... thanks for the settings, they look fantasic. I noticed you bumped up the color since your earlier "pure" settings... it seems to make a big difference.

Yes,

it gives the picture more life.....but does not exaggerate and one color. Those are my current and final settings for my SA 8300. I don't even see the need to bump the contrast up at this point. Looks fantastic in my living room.

cliff1371

11-22-05, 02:33 PM

cliff1371,

Here are some baseline settings to start you out...

Main Menu:
AV Selection: Pure
Contrast: 25
Brightness: -2
Color: +4
Tint: 2
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Off
Color Detail:
Color Temp: Manual
R High: -2
G High: -3
B High: -2
R Low: -2
G Low: -3
B Low: -1
CTI: Off
Color Management:
R: 0
Y: -7
G: 0
C: +6
B: 0
M: -1
NR:
DNR: Low
MPEG NR: Low
DRE:
DRE: High
Black Level: On
ACL: Off
Gamma: 3
Others:
I-P Mode: 1

Make sure you go into the options menu and turn the power save mode to save2.

DNice,

thanks for the help, i'm getting the pro1130 on Monday and can't wait!

Just curious, is there anything in the menu that keeps track of the hours i have used my tv? Also, do you recommend a 100 hour breaking in period like they do for the pannys?

thanks again

D-Nice

11-22-05, 02:38 PM

You can view the panel hours in the SM BUT please do not venture in there unless you know what you are doing. There are some instructions on how to access the SM further back in this thread. Yes I do recommend the 100 hour break-in period. You will definitely see an improvement in your picture over those first 100-200 hours.

sgnakster

11-22-05, 03:19 PM

I was wondering what the active DRE is, because I am getting more questions of the difference between the Pioneer 5060 and the 1130 questions.

to my knowledge only differences I know of are:
2 year warranty
swivel stand
More controls in the video adjustments

ps. Is it me or does the Elite look thicker than the 5060 with the speakers on?

D-Nice

11-22-05, 03:44 PM

MaliciousBraham

11-22-05, 04:20 PM

Active DRE pulls more detail out of dark areas of a picture. It works really, really well and you can see a difference. It is still officially unknown if Pioneer turned DRE completely off on the 5060 but I think they did.

The Elite is the same exact size as the 5060 with the speakers on.

Active DRE is probably the most easy to see difference between the two sets. Each step of Active DRE is distinguishable from the prior, and it does make a huge difference in PQ.

Every user in this thread has it on to some degree, and the non-Elite panels apparently do not have it as a feature. It is not listed on the pull-sheets anyway. I have not played with a 5060 first hand as I have been to busy playing with my 1130 ;)

mswlogo

11-22-05, 07:12 PM

D-Nice,

There was a post way back in this thread that had a Pioneer Tech quoted as saying DRE is always on, on the 5060.

D-Nice

11-22-05, 07:24 PM

D-Nice,

There was a post way back in this thread that had a Pioneer Tech quoted as saying DRE is always on, on the 5060.

I remember that post but if you reread it, it sounded like the tech didn't know what he was talking about. So I still think it is up in the air whether the 60 series has it.

cammot

11-22-05, 07:38 PM

The fans in the media box (there are two of them) run even when the unit is off, so the behavior you're observing is normal.

Thanks Eric.

cammot

11-22-05, 07:39 PM

[QUOTE=cammot]

Always remember the 5060's manual is your friend.

You can move the picture vertically and horizontally in the options menu.

Thanks, appreciate it.

BEN

mazag

11-22-05, 11:57 PM

I called Pioneer’s support line in an attempt to resolve a couple of problems and was past around for pretty much most of the afternoon. I was wondering if any one has had the same issues and able to resolve them, since Pioneer has not been much help at this point.

I’ve had my Pioneer 5060 for awhile and everything was working great with Los Angeles OTA channels. Then about a week or so ago the on screen TV guide displayed no listing in each time slot. I’ve tried changing my ZIP CODE to one just a few streets over in an attempt to reset the data. Immediately after doing so the channel guide disappears and says it will take 24hrs to update.

After 24hrs all the channels show up however, all the time slots display”No Listing”. I’ve tried several ZIP CODES and even rescanning channels before doing so and I’m still getting “No Listing” in all the time slots for all channels picked up from who knows where.

The other problem is when I view an HD channel that is clearly broadcasting in HD or any other ED or SD my 5060 switches to “WIDE” I have to manually switch it back to “FULL” every time a change channels (this problem showed up about the same time TV Guide problem did). When I explained this to Pioneers 800 support representative he said that “it’s not possible to change for WIDE to FULL or 4:3 while viewing an HD broadcast”. I said R U sure? And he said “Pioneer has never made a HD plasma display that will let you change display modes while viewing an HD broadcast”. I told him I also have a PDP5045HD and that unit will let me switch from WIDE to FULL while viewing HD. He said “it’s not possible” I said have you tried it he said “yes it won’t work”. I giggled and he sent eternal hold land.

I’m not done with Pioneer yet, however I was hopping someone had a solution before a piss away another afternoon on hold.

jacksonian

11-23-05, 06:16 AM

I can't comment on the TV Guide issue. But yes, both my 5050 and 4360 will let you switch to a stretch mode even while you're watching HD. This has NEVER made any sense to me.

liy

11-23-05, 06:47 AM

I can't comment on the TV Guide issue. But yes, both my 5050 and 4360 will let you switch to a stretch mode even while you're watching HD. This has NEVER made any sense to me.

It actually makes perfect sense, I think. On my Pio 5030 this feature is not available. This means when watching an HD channel broadcast in 4:3 mode (and, of course there are many), you cannot stretch the picture. I am looking forward to the ability to do this on my 1130! (Of course, I don't want the TV to it for me!!)

LIY

fl_dba

11-23-05, 07:49 AM

cliff1371,

Make sure you go into the options menu and turn the power save mode to save2.

D-Nice

What is the importance of this power save mode save2? Thanks

Dave

Pyleaxp

11-23-05, 08:24 AM

After months of reading these forums, I fianlly decided on the Pioneer 5060 which was installed yesterday!! Spectacular TV and I thank you all for you help in selecting it.

Are there any current owners out there? Do you have any recommendations on the 100-hour break-in period? What do I need to do differently during the first 100 hours? How about optimal settings? Any setting differences when watching HD broadcast versus regular broadcasts? I have a comcast hd dvr if that helps. TV is currently set to AUTO for sizing and 4:3 is set to WIDE to fill the screen. The cable box is hooked up to INPUT 1 with composite cables.

Thanks in advance for your help - this forum has been terrific and I wouldnt have been able to make the decision to buy the TV without it. Unfortunately, you can expect lots of newbie questions. I tried searching the forum for answers to some of these questions, but was not succesful. Thanks again.

wassy

11-23-05, 09:47 AM

I am still looking and trying to make my mind up. I can get a great deal on a Elite Pro1410HD, but afraid it's a year old and the replacement is just around the corner.. or the brand new Hitachi 55" with all the new bells and whistles.

I read this thread, and wonder is Pioneers Custoemr support really that bad? that is important, especially with this kind of item. When I called them yesterday, they told me the 50" elite has more features and a better picture than the 61" Elite.. not very encouraging!

any help from the peanut gallery?

mazag

11-23-05, 10:55 AM

It actually makes perfect sense, I think. On my Pio 5030 this feature is not available. This means when watching an HD channel broadcast in 4:3 mode (and, of course there are many), you cannot stretch the picture. I am looking forward to the ability to do this on my 1130! (Of course, I don't want the TV to it for me!!)

LIY

I liked the fact that until a few weeks ago it switched to WIDE when I viewed an HD Channel broadcast in 4:3 format. My problem is it switches everything to WIDE mode now when I change channels or input source.

BTW, enabling or disabling the AUTO SIZE function doesn't seem to make a difference on my 5060. If I understand the manual correctly, the AUTO SIZE function only works with HDMI?

mswlogo

11-23-05, 01:35 PM

I know a lot of folks are waiting so I thought I'd let you know, it may be common knowledge.

Invisions Displays (Pioneer Authorized) claims they have stock for 5060 and 4360.

I just order the 5060. They said I'd have it by next week. I could not find any history on them but they seemed very nice, no pressure and not in NYC. They were well aware that they were the only ones with stock and prices reflected it. It was worth it to me because I start a new job in Jan and I gotta get this TV thing out of my head.

Malvoe1

11-23-05, 02:48 PM

FYI, I got an email today indicating MonitorOutlet.com has the TVs in stock. Unfortunately I am leaving to go out of town for Thanksgiving, so I can't get the TV until Monday.

NemoZorro

11-23-05, 04:05 PM

GRH

11-23-05, 06:55 PM

D-Nice,

I recently setup and installed a Pio Elite 1130 using HDMI Input 1 connected to HDMI port on a DirecTV HD receiver H10. I've checked and tested the HDMI configeration serveral times for the 1130 but can not understand why the audio stops working when I watch HD channels (70s). When I watch SDT the audio works fine.

Here are the settings I am using under Option Menu:
HDMI Input / HDMI Input [Input 1] / Setting - ENABLE, Video - AUTO, Audio - AUTO.

I 've tried changing the Audio option from Auto to Digital with the same results. The Audio continues to work when watching SDT but not HD channels. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you.

George

Blackspyrit

11-23-05, 06:57 PM

D-Nice

11-23-05, 07:09 PM

D-Nice

11-23-05, 07:11 PM

D-Nice

11-23-05, 07:13 PM

D-Nice

What is the importance of this power save mode save2? Thanks

Dave

It lowers the screen's peak brightness (reduces image retention) and uses the least amount of power. My 930 on save2 is still brighter than my 5050 with its power setting on standard.

wassy

11-23-05, 09:44 PM

The 6100 is based off NEC glass. Pioneer will make a 6G glass 61" plasma in '06... if their plasma reconstruction plan allows for it.

thanks.. I am looking at the Elite's though, not the 6100. is there a difference?

Chip E

11-23-05, 09:44 PM

I've yet to see a pro930hd but, i do look at the 1130 every day at work. I'm thinking very seriously about buying the 930 sight unseen.. gotta be as good as the 1130..

D-Nice:

What are your thoughts about your pro930? I'm going to wall mount it in my bedroom. Also, are the settings you provided earlier in this thread for another poster the same settings for your 930? If not, could you post your 930 settings please.. Thanks.

-Chip

D-Nice

11-23-05, 09:52 PM

Post #1150 has the settings for my 930. I have no complaints about the 930. Absolutely love it.

Chip E

11-23-05, 10:09 PM

Post #1150 has the settings for my 930. I have no complaints about the 930. Absolutely love it.

Thanks dude. I did copy-paste those earlier...thought they might've been different. I wish we were modded for a 930. The 1130 sells itself ..well almost ;)

sgnakster

11-23-05, 10:30 PM

thanks.. I am looking at the Elite's though, not the 6100. is there a difference?

The Elite is still using the older 5th generation glass as well. At work, I see the 5060, 1130, 920, 6100, and the 1410. The 5th generation glass on the 6100 and the 1410 cannot compete with the other 4's quality. I'd hold off until next year or check one of the other 60"+ plasmas such as fujitsu or Panasonic.

bonkuba

11-24-05, 12:42 AM

OK. Another questions from the noob. I have had the 5061 for 3 days and I really am enjoying....everything but one thing. The TV Guide sort is really messing me up..HAHA!

Does anyone know how to set it to sort by channel number instead of whatever sort it is using now (actually I cant decide what it is sorting on). There is an option to modify the channel position, but with over 200 channels to move around that could get quite interesting.

I am probably missing something.........can any of you guys help me out?

Thanks!!

Sean

D-Nice

11-24-05, 12:58 AM

Angus99

11-24-05, 09:10 AM

GRH

11-24-05, 09:19 AM

D-Nice,

Your suggestion worked. I went into the H10 audio options and changed the Digital Output to PCM from Dolby Digital.

I want to share with you and the rest of the members this is an outstanding forum. The information you share is honest, straightforward and accurate. I have been reading this forum for at least a few months before I purchased my Pio 1130 and my time has been well spent. The Pio 1130 is the one of best plasmas on the market the PQ and design is excellent.

Thank you.

George

D-Nice

11-24-05, 10:39 AM

NemoZorro

11-24-05, 11:17 AM

It sounds like there is an issue with your STB. Can it send dolby digital over HDMI? If so, disable that as the Pioneer will not accept it over HDMI. You can verify the dolby digital in your STB's manual.

OK, I'm a little confused. I am planning on running a 79avi to a 74txi, then from the 74txi to an 1130, all using HDMI. Will I get the Dolby Digital signal that way? Or are you talking about the 1130 outputing DD? I know I'm comparing apples and oranges, but wanted to check.

mswlogo

11-25-05, 02:14 PM

FYI, I have been trying to keep my Pro/Con on Panny vs Pio up to date on page 38 of this thread as I have learned more.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6565003#post6565003

Any moderators read this thread, sure would nice if this thread was sticky.

sgnakster

11-25-05, 03:43 PM

regarding channel drop out issues, is it atsc tuner only? Because we have that problem with our displays. Does it also apply to the cablecard? (panasonic px50u's)

I'd also like to add that Panasonic's con is cannot stretch material when going through component

Pioneer each input have their own settings, so each device can work to the best of their abilities.

and yes, I'm pro Pio

mswlogo

11-25-05, 04:04 PM

Thanks I added the can't zoom on component as a panny con.

On pio is it's own settings on each input apply to Elite or all Pio's. I know Elite can calibrate each input.

Can you explain the dropping channels on pio more or post a reference. I'd have to reread the panny thread for details. But it didn't look pretty. I'm pretty sure it was atsc tuner. I don't recall seeing such issues in this thread but it may well be documented in other threads. If it's equally a problem I will fix it.

NemoZorro

11-25-05, 04:37 PM

pstrisik

11-25-05, 05:33 PM

On pio is it's own settings on each input apply to Elite or all Pio's. I know Elite can calibrate each input.
The xx60 models have settings memory for each input in the "user" video mode. Settings are not individual for the others (standard, movie, etc.).

BTW, the Panny industrial models have input memory also. It's only the Panny consumer line that doesn't.

spinee

11-25-05, 05:46 PM

after many years of service, my old yamaha receiver is definitely behind the times. i'm torn between a couple of midrange denons to replace it: the avr-3806 and avr-4306.

power isn't an issue for either...about the only difference of note (far as i know) is the fact that the 4306 will upconvert my analog sources to hdmi, while the 3806 will upconvert only to component (though it *does* have hdmi switching).

while the idea of a single connection is tempting, i'm wondering if i'd actually get better results from my old LD and VHS decks if i hooked them up via s-video instead of letting the denon do the work...i know that with my old tv (an xbr crt) i found i had better results by hooking up the LD via composite rather than s-video, because the tv's comb filter did a much better job than the LD player's.

i'd like to think that the pio will do a better job of de-interlacing everything for me, which leads me toward the (cheaper) 3806, but i have no idea about the quality of the upconversion circuits in the 4306. anybody out there had experience with a situation like this?

D-Nice

11-25-05, 06:24 PM

The xx60 models have settings memory for each input in the "user" video mode. Settings are not individual for the others (standard, movie, etc.).

BTW, the Panny industrial models have input memory also. It's only the Panny consumer line that doesn't.

Hmmm, you ordered that 8uk ;)

pstrisik

11-25-05, 06:28 PM

Hmmm, you ordered that 8uk ;)
NO COMMENT!!

D-Nice

11-25-05, 06:34 PM

NO COMMENT!!

You don't have to. I hope thinks work out for you.

FF2Skip

11-25-05, 09:37 PM

I'm looking hard at the 5060 (again) but I have a difficult mounting problem. There is one -- and only one -- place in my house this screen can go. Specifically, it has to be mounted in -- not on -- the wall, with the narrow lip of the bezel & glass being the only part of the screen that will actually be in the same room as the viewer. The rest of the panel will be embedded in the wall. I will have to trim two studs back a couple inches (no structural issues with that) and have a custom mount made to attach the panel to the studs. As for cooling issues, the other side of the wall is the basement steps which can be opened and a grill put over it for ventilation.

If this sounds vaguely familiar to anyone, I posted a question like it a month or so ago on a mounting thread, but got only "it ought'a work" replies. I'd really appreciate hearing from someone who's done it this way or seen it done.

thanks!

Angus
Angus,

I added a half-bath downstairs and overbuilt it in size to possibly accomodate a relative moving in(thank goodness that did not transpire! :D ). I am now using that wall to flush-mount a plasma and electric fireplace. AV components will also be recessed.

I had marked out dimensions for the 8UK, but have elected to not go that route because I sold my Pioneer 5330HD(almost 4 yrs old and not one thing wrong with it) and I am not as patient as others. I cannot justify the additional $1k+ for the Elite, so I will be ordering the 5060.

I have access to both sides of said wall. This makes construction 10x easier. I had already run dedicated power to that site. My original thought was to simply allow the monitor to rest on itself secured by some kind of backstrap. I have since nixed that idea in favor of creating another "wall" behind it so as to attach the monitor to a wall mounting brace. No one has confirmed to me that allowing the plasma to support its own weight was a bad idea- I just want to be safe.

Most likely I will build the "back" wall first. I will then trace the monitor from the backside and cut and stud accordingly. This should allow for the smallest of trim pieces. The room is painted a dark navy, save the ceiling. This should also help the monitor "hide" in the wall. I'm one of those folks who photo-chronicles everything- habit picked up from modifying my S2000. :D If you haven't begun/completed your undertaking, I'd be happy to share what I come up with. I am by no stretch any kind of master carpenter or finish man, but with the wall accessible from both sides, I should be able to accomplish my goal.

At this time, I'd also like to thank all those who have taken time to share their time, knowledge, experience, and passion for HT. Through research, especially here, I am at peace with my soon-to-be newly purchased Pioneer. :) Now, how soon do i replace my Denon 3300-series avr and Yamaha dvd player? :( :D

Angus99

11-25-05, 11:43 PM

Angus,

If you haven't begun/completed your undertaking, I'd be happy to share what I come up with. I am by no stretch any kind of master carpenter or finish man, but with the wall accessible from both sides, I should be able to accomplish my goal.

:D

Skip, I'd really appreciate any photos/descriptions you have time to share. And thanks for resurrecting my question. Thought that one had died! I plan to order a Pio 5060 tomorrow. Still not sure how I'll attach it to the studs, but I envision some sort of custom-made "s" shaped clamps that attach to the back of the stud and screen. Maybe I'll make them in two pieces so they can be adjusted. Also, I'll likely use some thin weatherstripping on the back of the bezel to keep drafts from the basement stairway out of the living room. Doesn't sound like you'll have that problem :).

Best of luck with your project! I look forward to seeing how you manage it.

Angus

rmach

11-26-05, 02:28 AM

If one were to turn off the TV Guide feature, would the fans still run in the MR box with the power turned off ?

The Mitz dlp with the TV Guide on consumes 70w for the TV Guide with power off!

bonkuba

11-26-05, 03:16 AM

My audio seems to be a little out of sync with my video when utilizing the monitor out outputs.

I am utilizing the digital coax out from my DVD player dince my Bose system does not accept fiber. So, since my Bose does not accept fiber I must utilize the medai center's monitor out outputs to my video inputs (audio) on my Bose.

The video seems fine when utilizing my DVD player (straight into the Bose). However, when I use the media center's monitor out outputs there is enough of a sync issue to be noticable....you can also very easily notice if you turn the volume up on the 6051 itself...there is a noticeable "echo".

Anyone else have this issue?

I am hoping that this is something that can be resolved. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

Sean

D-Nice

11-26-05, 08:49 AM

If one were to turn off the TV Guide feature, would the fans still run in the MR box with the power turned off ?

The Mitz dlp with the TV Guide on consumes 70w for the TV Guide with power off!

Yes.

D-Nice

11-26-05, 08:51 AM

Trogonboy

11-26-05, 09:58 AM

I have also experienced the exact same problems with sync. It is very annoying.

How do you setup the delay time?

pstrisik

11-26-05, 03:11 PM

You don't have to. I hope thinks work out for you.
Sorry, didn't mean to yell! Just trying to keep the obsessing to a minimum. Not hashing over the details too much helps.

No surprises. I was considering the Hitachi, which is discounted even further yesterday and today, but still not quite there for me to live with. Of course, the 8UK. And the new Toshiba, which seems like a Panny consumer with better stretch modes, input memory, PC input. I can get that on a 30 day return, but I just don't want to go through that again!

So, 8UK it is. No returning this time (at least not without paying 15% plus two way shipping). I think the only risk is the floating blacks. As far as I can read, it is pretty minor and only on some shots if it even does show up. I like the flexibility of inputs, possibility of NR with external processor, even the possibility of HDMI 1.2+ blade, though not guaranteed. Motion issues should be a bit less and I have the possibility of tinkering with external de-interlacing.

Anyway... that's the scoop.

cliff1371

11-26-05, 04:33 PM

eelton

11-26-05, 06:22 PM

I will be hooking up My PIO 1130 to an HR 10-250 tivo box.

Does anyone have any recommendations as far as which setting i should set the hr10 for? 720P or 1080i?
Also if anyone is using their pio 5060 or elite with the HR 10-250, how does the satellite sd channels look on the PIO? Which mode looks best to you as far as filling the screen for sdtv?
thanksThe difference is slight, but I've decided that keeping the TiVo output set to 720p is a bit better than 1080i. As for SD stretch modes, cinema (some stretch and some zoom) or wide (nonlinear stretch--more distortion, but it uses all the pixels) are best; which one is better is a matter of personal preference. Overall, I think the satellite SD channels look quite good on the Pioneer.

Nelsun

11-27-05, 01:29 AM

Guys-

Like others, I'm torn between the 5060 and the Panny 500U. I had the opportunity this evening to see a Pio 5050 in person at a store. No 5060's were there yet.

They also had the Panny 50U 50" in a darkened section of the store. My buddy came along for non-biased opinions. Unfortunately, because the 2 sets were not in the same lighting conditions, it's hard to say if that was a factor in our perception of the images.

I took a Revenge of the Sith DVD out of another player and placed it in the player that fed the Pio. The Panny 50" had a boxing match being fed into it in HD. I could not alter the material fed to it, plus there were several other flat panels being fed the the same signal. Without prompting, my buddy felt the Panny had more pop and better contrast and blacker blacks. I could not deny this. That room had an older Sony Plasma, some Polaroids, Hitachi and a few others. The Panny beat them all.

Star Wars on the Pio looks like it had a gray film over it. The blacks were not as black, at least it appeared that way. There was a Sony RPTV next to the Pio and it looked a bit more vibrant. I took the Pio remote and was able to figure out how to reset the picture settings to factory settings. It helped a bit, but still wasn't as good as the Panny. It was set to 480i as I recall.

With the 5050 being the last gen glass and the 5060 the newest, do you know if the contrast and blacks is improved over the 5050? I would like to buy the Pio for it's beautiful bezel design. But the Panny was the clear winner tonight, so I flip flop back to the Panny camp. The room it will live in is also rather bright during the day, lots of glass.

Thanks for any more insights. Nelson

Ken Ross

11-27-05, 08:13 AM

Nelson, yes, the new Pioneers have much better blacks than the old. Panasonic still beats the newer Pioneers for absolute black levels, but the gap has been narrowed considerably.

mswlogo

11-27-05, 08:29 AM

I've seen 1130, 930, 50u all next to each other and the blacks all looked just as dark and just as good.

Ken Ross

11-27-05, 08:35 AM

You need to see blacks in a totally darkened environment to see the differences. In normal store lighting, they will all look very close. This is why some people are surprised when they get their display home and dim the lights. The display that looked like it had good blacks in the store, all of a sudden doesn't.

But with that said, the new Pioneers DO have very nice blacks, they simply aren't quite as black as the Panasonics. You can see it in the proper lighting and the numbers also prove it. As always though, the Pioneers have their trademark color 'pop' that the Pannys just don't have. Some people like that, others don't. It's very subjective, but it's hard to dispute the fact that the new Pioneers put out an exceptional picture.

mswlogo

11-27-05, 09:14 AM

wassy

11-27-05, 10:05 AM

so... what is the general concensus on the 1130?

Ken Ross

11-27-05, 10:18 AM

What numbers prove it? You talking volume, I think that has nothing to do with it, that's price.

What people were surprised with level of blacks when they got home with a 6th-G pio?

The only comments I've seen regarding blacks is floating blacks on panny's. Those numbers prove it ;-)

Measured black levels in magazine reviews still show the Panasonic has better blacks. My observation in stores with dimmer lighting and the proper scenes to show it, confirm that the Panny still does slightly better than the Pioneer with blacks. I did not say that people bringing home 6th gen Pioneers were surprised with the black levels, did I? I DID say that many people are surprised when they bring home displays that appear to have good blacks in the store, but find when the lights are out, those blacks are not very good. This can apply to almost any manufacturer's panels.

Some people don't mind having a display that doesn't produce the 'best in class' blacks, others do. Perhaps you fall into the former category. Either way, you pick what you like, I'm not here to argue with you.

D-Nice

11-27-05, 10:44 AM

so... what is the general concensus on the 1130?

One of the top 3 50" plasmas out there.

There will always be a debate over whether Pioneer has reached Panasonic black levels. To be honest, it is so close its a draw. How about looking at things in a different perspective....

Pioneer has created a very deep blacks and at the same time increased detail in those dark areas AND increased the overall brightness of the panel. Just to give you an idea on how bright the Pioneer is, I keep my power setting on save2 as it has a low brightness level. Well, last night I decided to switch it to standard. Not even 10 seconds later I turned it back to save2. Why? The damn thing was TOO bright. I thought I was looking at an LCD. Even left my contrast setting at 25.

Did it affect the black levels? Nope. Not one bit.

Now, Panasonic has held the throne for deepest blacks for about 4 years. Thats just not the case today. Even LG has good blacks. And they are way behind in brightness game. Vivid mode with a picture setting of about 27 is the equivalent to the Pioneer's contrast level of 25 and power save mode of save2.

Pioneer has done one hell of a job with the 6G plasmas. No doubt about that. Brighter panel withe deep deep blacks AND black detail. Can anyone else top that combo? Nope. When you look at all the of those factors together, Panasonic is still playing catch up.

D-Nice

11-27-05, 10:46 AM

Measured black levels in magazine reviews still show the Panasonic has better blacks. My observation in stores with dimmer lighting and the proper scenes to show it, confirm that the Panny still does slightly better than the Pioneer with blacks. I did not say that people bringing home 6th gen Pioneers were surprised with the black levels, did I? I DID say that many people are surprised when they bring home displays that appear to have good blacks in the store, but find when the lights are out, those blacks are not very good. This can apply to almost any manufacturer's panels.

Some people don't mind having a display that doesn't produce the 'best in class' blacks, others do. Perhaps you fall into the former category. Either way, you pick what you like, I'm not here to argue with you.

Hey,

I haven't seen any that have listed nit levels. Care to share your sources?

mswlogo

11-27-05, 11:03 AM

One of the top 3 50" plasmas out there.

There will always be a debate over whether Pioneer has reached Panasonic black levels. To be honest, it is so close its a draw. How about looking at things in a different perspective....

Pioneer has created a very deep blacks and at the same time increased detail in those dark areas AND increased the overall brightness of the panel. Just to give you an idea on how bright the Pioneer is, I keep my power setting on save2 as it has a low brightness level. Well, last night I decided to switch it to standard. Not even 10 seconds later I turned it back to save2. Why? The damn thing was TOO bright. I thought I was looking at an LCD. Even left my contrast setting at 25.

Did it affect the black levels? Nope. Not one bit.

Now, Panasonic has held the throne for deepest blacks for about 4 years. Thats just not the case today. Even LG has good blacks. And they are way behind in brightness game. Vivid mode with a picture setting of about 27 is the equivalent to the Pioneer's contrast level of 25 and power save mode of save2.

Pioneer has done one hell of a job with the 6G plasmas. No doubt about that. Brighter panel withe deep deep blacks AND black detail. Can anyone else top that combo? Nope. When you look at all the of those factors together, Panasonic is still playing catch up.

And Pioneer has achieved this with out the floating black issue.

mswlogo

11-27-05, 11:04 AM

Hey,

I haven't seen any that have listed nit levels. Care to share your sources?

Me too. And I hope it is not yet another review that uses old pioneer's against new panny's.

Nelsun

11-27-05, 11:55 AM

blackeyepurple2

11-27-05, 12:09 PM

Thank you everyone for giving your time and information and opinions! I must find a 5060 then and compare the black levels.

Here's another newbie question, I have been trying to stay on top of that Panny thread, but I don't think I read anything on the floating black issue. What is that?

The 'floating black' issue refers to the fact that the 42" Panasonic PHD8UK screens keep self adjusting the contrast/brightness by a few clicks. Its very annoying and can't be switched off. I had three PHD8 panels and they all did it.....so in the end I went for a 6th gen Pioneer......the black level is just a good....but the detail in blacks is far far better. The set also looks better in its form factor and seems to be of a better quality in its constuction.

tucker7993

11-27-05, 12:39 PM

Pioneer 5060 or 1130? What are the differences? Thanks!

Ken Ross

11-27-05, 12:41 PM

Pioneer has done one hell of a job with the 6G plasmas. No doubt about that. Brighter panel withe deep deep blacks AND black detail. Can anyone else top that combo? Nope. When you look at all the of those factors together, Panasonic is still playing catch up.

I have said on many occasions the new Pioneers are fantastic displays. Are they better than the Panasonics? To some people they are and to some they're not. Many still find the Panasonics to produce a more natural picture. Many love the brilliant colors and brightness of the Pioneer. But I for one would never say "panel A is still playing catch up to panel B". That's simply not true, they are different displays with different characteristics.

As far as who it is that states black levels of displays, many of the video publications do. The Perfect Vision does, Widescreen Review does and I believe Sound & Vision does. But this still doesn't mean the panel A is better than panel B because of it, it simply means it produces a deeper black. An OBJECTIVE observation of the two panels under the proper conditions will show that. But the current gen Pioneer is markedly closer to the Panasonic in that quality than ever before. It's a great display. But I can recall seeing a demo loop at a number of BB stores (as I've posted before), where an HD golf tournament was shown as part of the loop. During that piece, a deep gray full-screen graphic was displayed with whiteish-gray golf figures across the screen. For whatever reason, only the Pioneer failed to show those figures in bold relief. The Panasonic showed the figures very clearly as did some of the other displays. This same observation was repeated at a number of BB stores I visited. I also recall Rich Harkness reporting something somewhat similar. In his observation of the Pioneer, he recalled seeing a dark scene where some detail was missing from the scene but yet the Panny showed it. He tried adjusting the Pioneer (as did I during that loop), but nothing he did (or I did), could bring that detail out.

That may well have been one weird isolated situation in both our observations, but they were there nonetheless.

But again, I think the new Pioneers are among the best displays out there. I would probably be very happy with the 6th gen Pioneers myself.

D-Nice

11-27-05, 02:28 PM

As far as who it is that states black levels of displays, many of the video publications do. The Perfect Vision does, Widescreen Review does and I believe Sound & Vision does.

Could you tell me which editions gave the nit levels of the new 6G Pioneers? I know that the 8G Panasonics were rated at .4 nits.

But this still doesn't mean the panel A is better than panel B because of it, it simply means it produces a deeper black. An OBJECTIVE observation of the two panels under the proper conditions will show that.

A really easy test would be to get both panels in a completely dark room with a blank screen. That test will be conducted real soon for me ;)

But I can recall seeing a demo loop at a number of BB stores (as I've posted before), where an HD golf tournament was shown as part of the loop. During that piece, a deep gray full-screen graphic was displayed with whiteish-gray golf figures across the screen. For whatever reason, only the Pioneer failed to show those figures in bold relief.

I still have not seen that loop. Looks like another trip to BB for me. Sounds interesting and may prove my case that DRE is not active on the 60 series.

I also recall Rich Harkness reporting something somewhat similar. In his observation of the Pioneer, he recalled seeing a dark scene where some detail was missing from the scene but yet the Panny showed it. He tried adjusting the Pioneer (as did I during that loop), but nothing he did (or I did), could bring that detail out.

To date I have not been able to replicate Rich's observation. On one of my trips to Tweeter I was able to evaluate a 1130 and 500u in a controlled room with a Denon 3910. I used some of my "Pure" settings on a 1130 and some AVS settings for the 500u. Using Dark for the black level on the 500u rendered the exact opposite of what Rich reported. It completely and effectively killed the details in the dark areas. Did it produce deeper blacks than the Pioneer? Hell yeah, but it also created a black blob in all dark areas. No detail what so ever. Increasing the brightness, as Rich did, did nothing more than raise the overall brightness of the screen....there goes the deep blacks.

But again, I think the new Pioneers are among the best displays out there. I would probably be very happy with the 6th gen Pioneers myself.

I wish they made a Fujitsu in piano black.

Ken Ross

11-27-05, 02:38 PM

D-Nice, as far as the Fujitsu's silver frame is concerned, that's what spray paint is for! ;) I may well wind up with the new 42" HD Fujitsu which is soon to be released. This is the first 42" Fujitsu that's based on a Panny panel. For me that's a winning combination!

No, I don't recall where I saw the rating for the black level on the new Pioneer. But you can see it for yourself at any store with subdued lighting and the proper material. I've seen it on several occasions at Magnolia stores where they have the Fujitsu, Pioneer and Panasonic almost side by side.

On that HD golf piece I mentioned which was part of the HD demo loop at BB, I'm not even sure they still have that same loop. When I first posted regarding that, it was certainly playing at all the N.Y. area BBs.

quixote

11-27-05, 03:10 PM

So just to recap, the word is that the 8th gen Panny industrial models still suffer the traditional Panny floating black level problem? Does anyone know if this is also true of the 50" industrial model as well? It seems like one would assume the entire line would regardless of panel size, but perhaps this is not the case?

Also, it still sounds like there is some question as to whether using the digital connects on the 8th gen Pannies will yield a tangible improvement in the greyscale and false contouring issues that seem to have historically plagued all plasmas thanks to the new 14 bit prosessing supposedly automatically activated when using HDMI connectors.

Moving well into the 21st century, it sure would be nice to be able to purchase a reasonably priced plasma that has it together well enough to simply display a garden variety DVD without the viewer needing to resort to apologies and a blindfold!

wassy

11-27-05, 04:33 PM

One of the top 3 50" plasmas out there.

There will always be a debate over whether Pioneer has reached Panasonic black levels. To be honest, it is so close its a draw. How about looking at things in a different perspective....

Pioneer has created a very deep blacks and at the same time increased detail in those dark areas AND increased the overall brightness of the panel. Just to give you an idea on how bright the Pioneer is, I keep my power setting on save2 as it has a low brightness level. Well, last night I decided to switch it to standard. Not even 10 seconds later I turned it back to save2. Why? The damn thing was TOO bright. I thought I was looking at an LCD. Even left my contrast setting at 25.

Did it affect the black levels? Nope. Not one bit.

Now, Panasonic has held the throne for deepest blacks for about 4 years. Thats just not the case today. Even LG has good blacks. And they are way behind in brightness game. Vivid mode with a picture setting of about 27 is the equivalent to the Pioneer's contrast level of 25 and power save mode of save2.

Pioneer has done one hell of a job with the 6G plasmas. No doubt about that. Brighter panel withe deep deep blacks AND black detail. Can anyone else top that combo? Nope. When you look at all the of those factors together, Panasonic is still playing catch up.

Well, thanks for the feedback. I was also looking at the 1410 Elite, which is over a year old, and 5th generation. I'm a bit hesitant at this point to go with that, but I really think I need the bigger screen. 50" just seems so small compared to my 4:3 53" and all the other big screens around it. Would you say the 1410 is as good as the 1130?

D-Nice

11-27-05, 05:00 PM

Well, thanks for the feedback. I was also looking at the 1410 Elite, which is over a year old, and 5th generation. I'm a bit hesitant at this point to go with that, but I really think I need the bigger screen. 50" just seems so small compared to my 4:3 53" and all the other big screens around it. Would you say the 1410 is as good as the 1130?

I would not recommend the 1410. It is actually a rebadged NEC. It has a reputation of have major image retention and not so great blacks (the Sony Qualia even kills it in black level). If you want a larger display, I would go for the Panny 65". I'm looking at it too for my new house....but I think it may be too big to go over the fireplace :(

Now, back to our normal Pioneer programming.

wes2308

11-27-05, 05:34 PM

I am new to this forum - so forgive me if this is a stupid question. I was torn between the 5060 and the Panasonic 50PX500. I think I am going to go with the pioneer based on the reviews and comparison I did at the local best buy. I wanted to save some money by buying the pioneer online - but someone told me that pioneer won;t honor their warranty if you purchase from an online or non authorized dealer. Does anyone know if this is true or not??

Thanks

Nelsun

11-27-05, 05:42 PM

Wes2308-

We are in the same boat regarding the diliemna of Panny or Pio. What I have found regarding warranty, if the on-line site is an authorized Pio dealer, then you're covered. One of the dealers I spoke to is an Alliance Member above. If I buy from him, then I feel I'm good on the warranty.

D-Nice

11-27-05, 05:52 PM

wes2308

11-27-05, 06:03 PM

I looked at the pioneer website for authorized online dealers - the problem is the all sell the 5060 for $$$$ or they say "call for price". Would anyone take a chance and by from a nonauthorized dealer?

And what is TV authority?

mswlogo

11-27-05, 06:07 PM

Wes2308, Nelsun,

Pioneer will honor warranties on NON Elites only (5060 and 4360) from Authorized Internet dealers. This does not mean anyone who says they are authorized by checking the list Pioneer publishes. There is one internet dealer that also has a 30 day guarantee on bad pixels (TVAuthority). TVAuthority does NOT offer that program on Panasonics.

Since at local retail stores the price of the Elite and Non-Elite are not that far apart. Get the Elite.

The Elite and Non-Elite are the same display with a slightly different Media box that lets you more accurately fine tune the display. One of the tweaks is control over a feature called DRE. It's still unclear if Non-Elite have that on or off. Elite also has a piano black swivel base and Non-Elites have fixed silver ones.

thebishman

11-27-05, 06:21 PM

I looked at the pioneer website for authorized online dealers - the problem is the all sell the 5060 for 6,000 or they say "call for price". Would anyone take a chance and by from a nonauthorized dealer for 4,000?
And what is TV authority?

TVA, (TV Authority), are one of the forum sponsors who have a very good reputation here. They ARE an authorized Pioneer internet dealer, so you'd have no concerns with warranty coverage. Also, their prices are excellent compared to BB, Circuit City, etc. Lastly, TVA have special programs for AVS forum members; be sure to mention that you are a member should you call them. BTW, I would NEVER buy a Pioneer from a non authorized internet dealer, no matter how much I might of saved.
Bish

FF2Skip

11-27-05, 06:36 PM

They say "call for pricing" because Pioneer does not allow for under MSRP listed on websites. I created a spreadsheet of places that I called. It contains pricing, availability, delivery charges, P.O.C., etc. I can tell you that authorized vs. unauthorized pricing is not even close to being worth the risk. Buy at a brick & mortar or buy from an authorized online site.

Btw, no place will get you a PDP-5060HD to your door for your price listed above. ;) Additionally, you can get the 1130 at the same price as the 5060 if you buy from local storefronts. i won't mention the names because I don't believe that is allowed.

Bishman, I did not know about the AVS deal with TVA. Thank you... I will call them back. :)

amheck

11-27-05, 06:39 PM

Well, that's $2000 saved. Since Pioneer wouldn't repair the set under warranty if you bought from the $$$$-priced place, then just think of it as you'll have $2000 to spend on repairs before you're behind in the game.

mswlogo

11-27-05, 06:50 PM

This is wrong because you can have most of your cake and eat it too. Go with Authorized Internet dealers. Slightly more and piece of mind.

By the way stores like Sears are now charging restocking fees and places like TVA do NOT.

lhamp

11-27-05, 08:16 PM

This is way off the current subject... but does anyone know if the Main Menu can be shifted to different parts of the screen.

Thanks.

D-Nice

11-27-05, 08:23 PM

This is way off the current subject... but does anyone know if the Main Menu can be shifted to different parts of the screen.

Thanks.

nope

wassy

11-27-05, 10:18 PM

Nelsun

11-27-05, 10:40 PM

Many here mentioned that the Best Buy version of the 5060 is the 5061. I gather from the postings, these are the same TV's. The 5061 designation is simply to identify it as Best Buy's unit? I ask because if I can find one at Best Buy, then I can evaluate it and feel good that what I see on the 5061 will be the same PQ as the 5060. Thanks!

D-Nice

11-27-05, 11:10 PM

ok, here we go. for you experts: I am strongly considering and will probably buy the PRO-1130HD tomorrow. I have some questions, maybe you can answer :

1. will the set auto pick the aspect ratio? i.e. when a SD is on, it will use the black lines, when HD, it covers full screen, without me having to choose.. or can I set it to stretch the pic or not on SD?

If the SD signal is 480i/p and you have the 1130 auto size option turned on you will get a 4:3 picture with gray bars. 1080i/720p will be shown in whatever format it is being broadcasted in. I keep my auto size off and use cinema mode for SD.

2. on SD stretched, with this new natural thing, do faces look stretched?

If you use cinema mode...nope

3. if my cable company gives me a Motorola digital set top box, do i still need the media receiver, and if yes, will they work together?

Yes and yes.

4. does anyone have this tv with the stand, and how high is it WITH the stand to the top of the set?

Search this thread with that question as it has been posted already.

5. Do I need or want ISF callibration, or should I save the money? where can I find someone down in south florida to do it, that is good?

Only you will be able to answer this question. With all the picture controls at bay, I say it is a complete waste.

6. does this unit have a loud fan noise, or any sounds I should know about?

No unusual sounds unless you get a bad unit.

7. any last comments, warnings, or pumps?

Do the 100 hour break-in stuff. Other than that, enjoy your new toy.

D-Nice

11-27-05, 11:11 PM

mswlogo

11-27-05, 11:27 PM

ok, here we go. for you experts: I am strongly considering and will probably buy the PRO-1130HD tomorrow. I have some questions, maybe you can answer :

3. if my cable company gives me a Motorola digital set top box, do i still need the media receiver, and if yes, will they work together?

If your company offers a CableCard this will be a lot more pleasant to use and very possibly higher quality depending on the CableBox you get.

The only drawback with the CableCard is you probably can't get Pay Per View (I'm not sure on this).

This can also effect your question #1.

pstrisik

11-27-05, 11:29 PM

ok, here we go. for you experts: I am strongly considering and will probably buy the PRO-1130HD tomorrow. I have some questions, maybe you can answer :

2. on SD stretched, with this new natural thing, do faces look stretched?

See for yourself here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6546231&&#post6546231

wassy

11-27-05, 11:31 PM

wassy

11-27-05, 11:37 PM

See for yourself here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6546231&&#post6546231

wow.. I guess i'll have to take it.. not what I expected.. maybe its just me, but she definitely looks a bit wider, and closer.

From what I understand, most of the prime time programming in our area is shown in HD.. say between 7:00 and 11:00 PM.. so that is when we watch most of our tv... I am hoping the SD won't be much of an issue then.

pstrisik

11-27-05, 11:46 PM

Thanks for the answers guys. I still can't find the height of the e;lite 1130 with the stand.. looked all over.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/277590846Elite%20Reference%20Guides%20Plasma.pdf

go to page 8.

wassy

11-27-05, 11:50 PM

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/277590846Elite%20Reference%20Guides%20Plasma.pdf

go to page 8.

LOL.... You guys are the BEST! thanks.

pstrisik

11-27-05, 11:51 PM

wow.. I guess i'll have to take it.. not what I expected.. maybe its just me, but she definitely looks a bit wider, and closer.

From what I understand, most of the prime time programming in our area is shown in HD.. say between 7:00 and 11:00 PM.. so that is when we watch most of our tv... I am hoping the SD won't be much of an issue then.
You are comparing 4:3 with cinema mode aren't you? The stretch wide is very slight. It is combined with moderate zoom to fill the screen. Look at the zoom mode. That preserves the proportions (no widening). She is not stretched much at all compared to that, eh?

It will be hard to do better than this. You are taking a 4:3 picture and filling a 16:9 space. Something has to give somewhere! :o

wassy

11-27-05, 11:56 PM

You are comparing 4:3 with cinema mode aren't you? The stretch wide is very slight. It is combined with moderate zoom to fill the screen. Look at the zoom mode. That preserves the proportions (no widening). She is not stretched much at all compared to that, eh?

It will be hard to do better than this. You are taking a 4:3 picture and filling a 16:9 space. Something has to give somewhere! :o

You are right. It probably isn't too bad, and something we will get used to. I remeasured.. we are 10-11' away from the front of the screen. 50" should do the trick... bigger is better, but we should be ok, as long as i can fill the screen!

Nelsun

11-28-05, 12:29 AM

Thanks D-Nice, 5061=5060

mswlogo

11-28-05, 12:39 AM

Thanks for the answers guys. I still can't find the height of the e;lite 1130 with the stand.. looked all over.

as for the cable card, I can definitely get one, and no pay per view.. but what about the tv guide problems. i am told it gets all messed up with the cable card? i read that on AVS I think.. anythin in this regard?

I don't have a Cable Company STB or CableCard just yet myself. I've read 2 sets of problems. One is confusion when mixing Cable with OTA. The other is default order of channels is not what you want and it's tedious to get them in the right order and easy to lose that customization. Some cable cards have caused problems on some TV's like the Panny's. I have not seen those sort of issues (in this thread anyway) for the Pio's.

But I think if you can get a CableCard to work using the integrated Tuner you'll get the most out of the TV. Ask your CableCompany if you can try both or what the options are to switch.

No Juggling 2 remotes.
You'll get the best picture for sure using Media Center.

Now if the STB your thinking of includes a DVR then there is not much choice.