This has been discussed before. Some player/TV combinations will not allow you to clip peak whites.

For those you need to adjust contrast until you don't see any colour shifting. The colour bar pattern is useful for this.

But when i had my Lumagen processor it was no problems setting contrast on the same plasma. :confused:

I find that the DVE patterns for Brightness and Contrast work better on CRT than GetGray but the grayscale and the 30-80IRE swap is great on GetGray.
I wish that a flashing pattern like the one on the Sencore generator was available for Brightness setting.
Any plans on doing anything like that in the future?

As for DVE contrast vs Getgray, you should not use my DVD for CRT contrast adjustments, this is covered in the documentation.

As for the DVE brightness pattern you mention, I presume you mean you prefer some pattern other than their pluge better? My pattern is effectively a pluge with moving bars making them easier to detect. As such I feel mine is significantly better. But of cousre I would :).

Not really planning to change those significantly, I'm pretty happy with both those patterns. I am not familiar with the Sencore pattern though. I don't have one and haven't seen it.

Cheers, Scott

I have intended to get GetGray for a long time but hesitated due to too many had problems burning it to dvd. Now with the hint to use Imgburn I jumped on the wagon, got the files and burned it to disk. And it worked first time! (Except the disk got no label, but the second time the label was correct).

As for which testpatterns are useful to me: Of course Brightness & Contrast, and they were better than on DVE or The Calibrator. The color ramps revealed blue clipping on one of my displays (which I managed to correct). Multi-Level Color Bars helped me to select the best gamma setting among the predefined ones. Alignment/Overscan/Sharpness för adjusting ovescan as swell as sharpening. I also like the Belle-nuit as a one picture overall check.

Thank you very much for developing this test dvd!

Thank you very much for developing this test dvd!You are welcome. Very glad it worked well for you. Glad the free imgburn software worked well too. Best, Scott

Of course....the documentation :)
Well. I'm now reading all 28 pages in case I missed anything else....
I used the word pattern but meant pluge; again Getgray is not designed for CRT.
Lastly, the Sencore pluge for brightness while different from yours is essentially providing the same function but it flashes on and off instead of moving side to side.
Keep up the good work.
PS. no problem with my OPPO

Thanx to the folks here. I PayPal'd, downloaded my stuff and burnt a nice DVD+RW booktype DVD ROM and it works great so far. When there is a new update, I can erase the disc and burn it again. Beauty is I only needed dvd decrypter to burn with my LG DL dvd burner.

I will do my best to calibrate my overscan, brightness and contrast and perhaps my colour temperature too? Is it also possible to calibrate my gamma curve a bit with this dvd? I have an older light meter that is for photography. A simple, no or yes, check post such and such or go to page such and such on calibrate.tv etc. Not looking for repeats or duplication.

Anyhow, this disc looks really handy and useful. Thanx all :)

I own a RP CRT HDTV and I'm looking for a calibration DVD with gray window patterns in steps of 10%. Is the GetGrey usable for that with my set?

cpc -- The simple answer is no, photographic light meters can't be used for PJ calibration. There are numberous references throughout this forum. See the Poynton's reference work on video as well, http://www.poynton.com/Poynton-color.html.

HDholic -- It's still a CRT based display. All of the caveats pertaining to the use of this calibration disc for CRT calibration applies.

I own a RP CRT HDTV and I'm looking for a calibration DVD with gray window patterns in steps of 10%. Is the GetGrey usable for that with my set?

Yes it is. That's what I use in conjunction with CALMAN.

I haven't decided to make a new one, yet. This one is working pretty well for almost everyone as is. There is one navigation bug in the NTSC version, but it's trivial and so far, no one has pointed it out. I am trying to make a test DVD for Oppo's. Only becasue the Oppo's are popular and the don't handle the chapter repeat very smoothly.

As for changes, I never did like the frequency bursts much since they didn't really fit the theme of the DVD as I just discussed (IMHO). I never was really happy with the multi-level colorbar pattern either. Probably add some duplicate patterns for using red and green filters like the current contrast and tint pattern. Possibly a color decoder adjustment pattern for devices with a color push that needs a happy midpoint adjustment, but I'm not sure how I'd do one. I'd probably include Ron's full screen grid pattern he recently donated. I think there are a couple more items on my maybe to-do list but I'm not where it is.

No timeframe, not anytime soon for sure, and it would be a different DVD (i.e. version 2) to start the process all over again and assist in keeping the server alive. Probably start a new thread since this one is pretty huge as it is.

Meanwhile I am watching the pro level HD-DVD and BR authoring tools, like the one the GetGray DVD is made with. Also the various HD encoders. The authoring tool of choice runs well over $15,000. That would take a lot of donations to break even so I'm in no hurry to run out and make that investment (yet :)). I'd rather wait and see which will become more popular, but that may drag out for a long time as it looks today.

Best, Scott

Hi Scott - great post. In fact I was just looking through this thread to look for any comments on what was next for this project...

A few thoughts:

- Please make sure the convergence patterns (single pixel grids) are on the to-do list as discussed earlier in this thread.

- This calibration disc is great and is a pleasure to work with. I hardly ever pull out DVE or Avia any more. My calibrations now take just a fraction of the time than before. Used to waste so much time with their menus, keeping track of which patterns on those discs were bad, and even trying to figure out what pattern I was looking at! It was a mess, and your disc makes the process so much easier now.

- A HD DVD and BluRay version of the disc would be great. Maybe you could team up with someone who already has the encoding/burning equipment so you don't have to invest in these tools yourself?

- I for one would be happy to purchase such a new HD version, and at a cost more than the original. I'm sure others would too.

Thanks again.

I own a RP CRT HDTV and I'm looking for a calibration DVD with gray window patterns in steps of 10%. Is the GetGrey usable for that with my set?Yes, the gray window patterns will work fine. 10% and 5% steps available (2 different pattern sets). Also windowed (recommended) and full screen patterns. It does not have a CRT contrast pattern becasue we made it targeted for fixed pixel devices, but the gray windows are perfect. See the documentation available for download at www.calibrate.tv. HTH

Please make sure the convergence patterns (single pixel grids) are on the to-do list as discussed earlier in this thread. Can't really do single pixel like one might expect, on MPEG2 encoded stuff. The hard transition gets some compression artifaacts, nothing I can do about that. But I'll use Ron's raw yuv pattern which will be as good as it can get.This calibration disc is great and is a pleasure to work with. I hardly ever pull out DVE or Avia any more. My calibrations now take just a fraction of the time than before. Used to waste so much time with their menus, keeping track of which patterns on those discs were bad, and even trying to figure out what pattern I was looking at! It was a mess, and your disc makes the process so much easier now.Very glad it's working well. The whole world seems to prefer it based on where all the folks who help out come from.- A HD DVD and BluRay version of the disc would be great. Maybe you could team up with someone who already has the encoding/burning equipment so you don't have to invest in these tools yourself?Maybe, but I don't know anyone who does, yet. And there are some tools I'm using that are creating files at a very "raw" levelunlike higher level software. I'm also frameserving the images into an encoder using utilities that were also customized for this specific application. Getting encoders to leave video levels alone is harder that people think. After seeing the errors in the commercial DVD's and seeing how hard it was to get mine perfect, I'm suspect of any other DVD out there (e.g. the "free" one floating around). Finding an combnation of software and modifications that produced the perfect output patterns that are today's GetGray DVD was the hard part, and as this thread showed early on, took some time and a lot of help.

Some of that just doesn't exist for HDDVD or BR, yet. There are only a few encoders that will do it now and except for the most expensive ones, the others (consumer versions) were the same ones that butchered the video levels as they try to "help" the end user while encoding the MPEG stream. I expect those same companies BR/HD versions would do likewise. One must have professional complete control of the process. There are also multiple codecs envolved with the HD options to further complicated how to do it. If it were easy, the people who do this for living would already have one out, IMO. There are 3 main parts to the process; a) create the patterns (easy), b) encode to compressed video format liek MPEG-2 (not as easy as people think to do correctly), and c) Author the Disc (also difficult without professional tools (expensive).I for one would be happy to purchase such a new HD version, and at a cost more than the original. I'm sure others would too.Thanks for the encouragement, and yes, I'm sure everyone woudl love to have one, too. I'm keeping an eye on the issue, but it will be a beast, at best incredibly expensive, at worst impossible to wrestle at this time. If someone runs across someone who wants to let me borrow the HD/BR versions of a high end encoder (e.g. Sonic Scenarist BR/HDDVD and Cinevision), I'd be happy to get right to work on it th enext day so keep your ears open.

Another issue which I should have listed as #4 above is the creation of the actual disc. DVD burners are everywhere, and will likely be "stock" in new PC's withn a few months. Home-burning of HDDVD and BR is either not available yet at all, very expensive, and/or uncommon. I don't think there are burners for both yet, and who knows what kind of inter-player compatibility issues there will be when there are home-burnable HD/BR discs. DVD is finiky enough as it is. So that leaves having DVD's "stamped", another significant expense, with prices starting in quantities fo 10,000. :eek:

And probably BD-9 too so anyone that can burn a DVD can burn an HD disc. Here is a how to for burning HD-DVD-9:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8895617&&#post8895617

It looks like dr1394 has already put together an HD-DVD test disc see here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6049851&&#post6049851
which links to the disc image here:
http://www.w6rz.net/hdtestpatterns.zip

I don't think Ron's is a "disc" per se. Just patterns and streams. Great for a HTPC user though.

"I haven't decided to make a new one, yet. This one is working pretty well for almost everyone as is. There is one navigation bug in the NTSC version, but it's trivial and so far, no one has pointed it out. I am trying to make a test DVD for Oppo's. Only because the Oppo's are popular and they don't handle the chapter repeat very smoothly."

And here I am placing an order for an Oppo this evening and see this post . Interesting ! What work do you see yourself undertaking to make the disk work on the Oppo ? Has Oppo Support been of any help to you ? They are always working on new firmware to "bug" fix and I wonder if this is something they can work on at their end ?

How about a contest ? Find the "trivial navigation bug" and win the next version of GetGray :D Just a thought .

Scott........................ :)

I don't think Ron's is a "disc" per se. Just patterns and streams. Great for a HTPC user though.
This is what the link says:
HD-DVD compatible ready to burn on DVD-R or DVD+R .iso file (118,058,063 bytes)
So I think it is an HD-DVD disc iso file.

This is what the link says:
HD-DVD compatible ready to burn on DVD-R or DVD+R .iso file (118,058,063 bytes)
So I think it is an HD-DVD disc iso file.Cool. Fire it up.

And here I am placing an order for an Oppo this evening and see this post . Interesting ! What work do you see yourself undertaking to make the disk work on the Oppo ? Has Oppo Support been of any help to you ?Only some Oppo users reort seeing the "blip". It happens when a pattern repeats at a relatively short interval. Some Oppo users don't see it. I have not investigated which do it, but at least some who see it say they have the latest FW. YMMV.

Only some Oppo users reort seeing the "blip". It happens when a pattern repeats at a relatively short interval. Some Oppo users don't see it. I have not investigated which do it, but at least some who see it say they have the latest FW. YMMV.

I use GetGray with the Oppo 971. I see a slight blip when some patterns loop, but it doesn't affect my usage, which is entirely by eyeball. Maybe it matters more to people with instruments?

-Bill

Hi I have a question what is the difference between PAL and the NTSC ? Sorry for this I just don't no.

In a nutshell NTSC is the braodcast system used in North America and PAL is used in Europe. NTSC is 60Hz and PAL is 50Hz. The frame sizes (pixel width x height) are slightly different as well.

Thank you Gary. I will be getting your Download soon as I get a DVD burner.
Daniel

I know that getgray is designed for fix pixel displays. Does that mean it cannot be used for a CRT Computer Monitor? If it can't be used, what would be the better alternative, Avia or DVE?

It can still be used for a CRT monitor since the patterns for greyscale, colour/tint, still apply.

The problematic piece is setting contrast. I started using GetGray with my CRT HDTV while I was waiting for my plasma to arrive and it was helpful in fine tuning it.

I know that getgray is designed for fix pixel displays. Does that mean it cannot be used for a CRT Computer Monitor? If it can't be used, what would be the better alternative, Avia or DVE?

Avia or DVE would be better alternatives IMO. Getgray doesn't have some elements which are useful for cRT (but not useful for digitals). Avia DVE have all the basics for any display, while getgray can be additionally useful for digitals in some respects. I would pick up Avia or DVE for CRTs as getgray won't have everything you might want.

Computer CRT monitors tend not to have problems with blooming or voltage regulation in high white level conditions since they need to be able to display black text on a white background. Note that you can still damage a CRT computer monitor by displaying a still bright image on a dark background for some (depends on the monitor) period of time. If you are driving the monitor from a PC then GetGray will allow you to calibrate your movie playback software. I do this all the time and GetGray is the best. In some PC hardware and software configurations if you want to calibrate the display of the computer desktop, photos (not movie), and web browser images then you will need a set of still images to do so. Look in the HTPC forum for info. Neither GetGrey Avia nor DVE are designed to calibrate the PC desktop.

Just a quick question. I'm guessing this is all applicable for LCD tvs as well? :) Since all the talk revolves around digital I am guessing so. I also wanted to confirm it had no "hand-holding" help in it? I have never run DVE or Avia and might need a bit of help, but I'd rather buy this than either of the other two...

Also, is the disc available again? I read somewhere in this thread early on it had been taken down. But I notice on the site it says v. 1.1 non-beta ntsc version is available.


EDIT: Hmmm, regarding the hand holding, I'm reading the FAQ .pdf and have answered my own question. :) I guess I just need a good site to help me figure out what to do with all the test patterns...any suggestions?

EDIT2: Wow, there is so much info on this disc. I'm not terribly outfitted with equipment measuring devices such as colorimeters, etc. Would this disc be recommended for someone like myself, or would I be better off with just purchasing DVE or Avia? :(

Computer CRT monitors tend not to have problems with blooming or voltage regulation in high white level conditions since they need to be able to display black text on a white background. Note that you can still damage a CRT computer monitor by displaying a still bright image on a dark background for some (depends on the monitor) period of time. If you are driving the monitor from a PC then GetGray will allow you to calibrate your movie playback software. I do this all the time and GetGray is the best. In some PC hardware and software configurations if you want to calibrate the display of the computer desktop, photos (not movie), and web browser images then you will need a set of still images to do so. Look in the HTPC forum for info. Neither GetGrey Avia nor DVE are designed to calibrate the PC desktop.

Specifically, I want to calibrate my monitor for sill image editing.

Just a quick question. I'm guessing this is all applicable for LCD tvs as well? :) Since all the talk revolves around digital I am guessing so. I also wanted to confirm it had no "hand-holding" help in it? I have never run DVE or Avia and might need a bit of help, but I'd rather buy this than either of the other two...

Also, is the disc available again? I read somewhere in this thread early on it had been taken down. But I notice on the site it says v. 1.1 non-beta ntsc version is available.


EDIT: Hmmm, regarding the hand holding, I'm reading the FAQ .pdf and have answered my own question. :) I guess I just need a good site to help me figure out what to do with all the test patterns...any suggestions?

EDIT2: Wow, there is so much info on this disc. I'm not terribly outfitted with equipment measuring devices such as colorimeters, etc. Would this disc be recommended for someone like myself, or would I be better off with just purchasing DVE or Avia? :(You can get a lot of information on display calibration form this forum as well as elsewhere on the web. Ovation Multimedia (the makers of AVIA: http://www.ovationmultimedia.com/avia_faq.html) as well as Video Essentials (DVE: http://www.videoessentials.com/ve_d_faqvideo.php) have some "how to" information on their web sites.

You do not need any test equipment to use the GetGray disc (I use it and I just use my eyeballs). It has a lot of stuff that can be used either with or without external test equipment. This software was designed for all types of fixed pixel displays, which include Plasma and LCD TVs as well as DLP and LCD projectors -- both Front Projectors and RPTVs).

If you do decide to get the GetGray caldisc (www.calibrate.tv), you can PM me with your email address and I might be able to give you some personalized assistance, if needed (I wrote the "manual" with inputs from experts in calibration and final edits by Scott). Due to holiday commitments, I will be doing some travelling between San Jose and Los Angeles, so there may be some delay in my responses to you, however.

PS: Welcome to the AVS Forum :D.

What DVD playback software may I use to measure colors that won't have an effect on its values?

BTW-My computer has no graphic cards, it uses the Intel GMA chipset, set to overlay.

What DVD playback software may I use to measure colors that won't have an effect on its values?

BTW-My computer has no graphic cards, it uses the Intel GMA chipset, set to overlay.

Unfortunately it's not just the playback S/W, but the video card/chipset drivers.

In my case, I use TheaterTek with an Nvidia 6600GT (VMR9) and it is basically neutral from a colour perspective.

Due to holiday commitments, I will be doing some travelling between San Jose and Los Angeles, so there may be some delay in my responses to you, however.

PS: Welcome to the AVS Forum :D.

Thank you very much Wiebe. So what you're saying is you'll be giving me a visit in Long Beach over the holidays? j/k :P

Thanks for the vote of confidence, and links. I think I'll go ahead and get the GetGray disc. Two questions though.

1) I notice DVE and Avia both require more than one filter (ie. red/blue/green), but GG only reqs the blue. Is the GG disc just setup so that the color can be calibrated with only the blue filter? If so I'll go ahead and get those THX blue glasses from their website.

2) If I did want to get a colorimeter, would the Color Vision Spyder2 work for an LCD hooked up to a computer via dvi->hdmi conversion or a standard VGA? It'd be nice to avoid the $500 Spyder TV pro or whatever if possible if I was to get a colorimeter someday, but I notice the Spyder2 uses gamma and other such things to calibrate. Also, I know that LCD computer monitors differ in many ways from LCD tvs, and their color/contrast/etc can be much different. I guess I'm kinda answering my own question here hm?

Thanks again!

Specifically, I want to calibrate my monitor for sill image editing.

You want to use graphics levels patterns, NOT video patterns found on getgray, Avia, DVE etc. There are many simple graphics patterns for monitor calibration floating around the web. Graphics levels and video levels are not the same.

So I bought GetGrey to use with Color HCFR (free cal. soft) and noticed that the program uses IRE values. After looking at the whole GetGrey disc, I didn't find anything but % values :eek: !?! Why weren't these included? Could these be considered in the future?

If I only knew how to create patterns... :rolleyes:

Cyn -- Since you didn't say what part of the country that you live in, I didn't know that you live in Long Beach. Send me a PM with your phone number &/or email address and I can see if I can get down there (time constraints not withstanding :D).

GetGray, AVIA & DVE only require the Blue filter to adjust the Color and Tint controls. The Red and Green filters can be used for other tests, but are not required for basic calibration.

I'm the wrong person to recommend any of the instrumentation, like Spyder2, etc. For that information, check the other threads in this forum for that kind of information.

HDholic -- That is because IRE is really only useful for CRT displays (it references analog voltage signals and not % Stimulus digital values and IRE is not really applicable for the fixed pixel displays for which the GetGray Caldisc was developed). The table that Scott provided in Appendix B of the "Instructions/Manual" gives the relationship between IRE and % Stimulus values. These factors have been discussed many times in this thread :cool:. If you want to use HCFR, then either you will have to make your own translation or get the HCFR people to change their software to use the more correct % Stimulus (they should be amenable to user comments). BTW, most of the automated measurement systems use % Stimulus values.

So I bought GetGrey to use with Color HCFR (free cal. soft) and noticed that the program uses IRE values. After looking at the whole GetGrey disc, I didn't find anything but % values :eek: !?! Why weren't these included? Could these be considered in the future?

If I only knew how to create patterns... :rolleyes:

IRE labels are a poor choice for digital test patterns. In this case, % is equivalent to what the IRE would be if output without a 7.5IRE setup pedestal. So if 0IRE is black and 100IRE is white, then it's the same as the % values with 0% as black and 100% as white and all in between equivalent as well. If setup pedestal were present for analog output this would change.

IRE labels are a poor choice for digital test patterns. In this case, % is equivalent to what the IRE would be if output without a 7.5IRE setup pedestal. So if 0IRE is black and 100IRE is white, then it's the same as the % values with 0% as black and 100% as white and all in between equivalent as well. If setup pedestal were present for analog output this would change.

I'm trying to calibrate a CRT RPTV so IRE's would've worked for me using HCFR. Looking at the Getgrey % Amplitude vs IRE table, 0/100% match 0/100IRE but everything in between use different values. I plan on getting CalMan at some point(have to save my pennies :)) but on the mean time, how could I make simple grayscale patterns to work with my dvd player? Could someone point me in the right direction?

IRE labels are a poor choice for digital test patterns. In this case, % is equivalent to what the IRE would be if output without a 7.5IRE setup pedestal. So if 0IRE is black and 100IRE is white, then it's the same as the % values with 0% as black and 100% as white and all in between equivalent as well. If setup pedestal were present for analog output this would change.However, Black is normally defined as 7.5IRE, so, as you point out, the relationship is not 1:1. For example, from Appendix B of the GetGray "manual", 50IRE = digital 117 (7.5IRE = black), whereas 50% amplitude/stimulus = digital 126.

For HDholic's purposes, he needs to know what the HCFR software uses as the black reference level (presumably 7.5IRE). As you state, if the HCFR software uses 0IRE for its black reference (technically incorrect ???), then there will be no difference.

However, Black is normally defined as 7.5IRE, so, as you point out, the relationship is not 1:1. For example, from Appendix B of the GetGray "manual", 50IRE = digital 117 (7.5IRE = black), whereas 50% amplitude/stimulus = digital 126.


No, it depends. A 7.5IRE setup pedestal is usually only present in US NTSC. Basically everything else uses 0IRE as black. It is not accurate to say that black is "normally" defined as 7.5IRE because it's not(in fact nowadays it probably usually isn't). In many systems analog signals at 7.5IRE may be 7.5IRE above black. And of course this discussion is moot if analog signals are not involved.

I'm trying to calibrate a CRT RPTV so IRE's would've worked for me using HCFR. Looking at the Getgrey % Amplitude vs IRE table, 0/100% match 0/100IRE but everything in between use different values. I plan on getting CalMan at some point(have to save my pennies :)) but on the mean time, how could I make simple grayscale patterns to work with my dvd player? Could someone point me in the right direction?
You can use the getgray DVD with HCFR to calibrate the color of the gray scales. I think HCFR has some terms confused slightly for instance their delta-E seems to show only color error and not include luminance error. I suspect they really mean percent stimulous and not IRE anyway which means the getgray disk is fine.

You can use the getgray DVD with HCFR to calibrate the color of the gray scales. I think HCFR has some terms confused slightly for instance their delta-E seems to show only color error and not include luminance error. I suspect they really mean percent stimulous and not IRE anyway which means the getgray disk is fine.
I'm actually testing this out as I write this. I'll see what results I get. Also, I burned the Getgrey onto CD instead of DVD being that it's a small file, and the image jumps a bit at all times. I have the OPPO 971 set @ 540P on DVI. Anyone experienced this?

Using the % stim (vs IRE) will only affect a gamma calculation. For setting the grayscale over a range, you won't see any difference.

I advise against buring it on a CD. I recommend using the iso, I'm going to remove the "files" option as soon as I have time to update the website.

Edit for clarity...

Any suggestions on where to get the color filters to use with this DVD? Without buying the DVE DVD.

Thanks,

Kemical

the crop of newbies have to discover the search function.... ;)

:cool:

the crop of newbies have to discover the search function.... ;)

:cool:

I apologize that I asked for some goodwill, considering there are 40 some odd pages here I thought it was a relatively simple question that someone could answer out of the goodness of their heart, but hey I understand if that was too much to ask for. If there is someone that could find in their heart to answer my simple question I would appreciate it. And just for the record, I don't usually ask a question without first researching it, however since this was a simple question that didn't require a long explanation I thought that maybe it would be answered without catching slack from someone who thinks they are the all knowing when it comes to this forum. Please forgive my ignorance, I am obviously not worthy.

Kemical - Apparently a NEWBIE.

P.S. Merry Christmas.

Kemical, Here you go http://www.co-store.com/thx

Kemical, Here you go http://www.co-store.com/thx


Thank you Daniel. I had actually considered that route, however that is just the blue filter and from my understanding of calibration discs I thought I would need all three filters. I was hoping to be able to get all three in a nice simple cardboard case at a reasonable price. I can order the filters from DVE, however they charge $3 a piece, which I personally think is a bit much for a piece of coloured plastic. I have read in here that you can get by with just the blue filter from THX, but as I said, I didn't know if someone knew of a little DIY way of making them or getting them. I could always just get the DVE DVD, but that seems to be a waste of money. Maybe I am trying to be too frugal in this regard, but one of the things I have found here on AVSforum is that there is always a better way at a lower price. If this is really my only or best option then that is fine, but if someone knows of a better way I would appreciate it.

Again, Daniel thank you for your prompt response. I really do appreciate it.

Kemical

Guys:

I do not want to be in the mailing and distribution business, just don't have the time right now. But, starting next week, since people are having a hard time getting them, I will provide filters as a service, but only under these circumstances:
1) The requestor is a contributor
2) They send a Self-Stamped, Self Addressed envelope to me to return the filters in
3) The requestor was either
a) one of the people who contributed more than the minimum amount
OR
B) for those who did not, they contribute an additional $5.00 either
via paypal or with the envelope.
4) Print and include a simple form I'll put on the www.calibrate.tv website. The form will have what I need to figure out who they are and look them up.

Going forward, for new contributors, I'll update the website on details of above. I do not anticipate being able to send these to anywhere but USA addresses, but if you figure out how to send a SASE to me that will make it back to europe, etc. I'll be happy to stuff the envelope and stick it in the mailbox.

It will not be anything fancy. It will be 3 peices of film, similar to what Avia comes with. About the size of a 4-5 frame 35mm negative strip. Blue, Red, and Green. No card mount, no cardboard glasses, etc. Just the films, just like Avia.

Details are not on the website yet; probably won't be until late today or Monday. Please wait for the instructions to be posted on the website before swamping me with PM's asking for the mailing address etc.

Hope this helps those who can't find them.

Cheers, Scott

Ok, here is a question. Using the Get Grey DVD and my latest source player, an SDI modified Panasonic CP-72, the SDI output looks like the component output does when the dvd player is set to LIGHTER. Set to DARKER, the component outputs look darker than the SDI output does since the SDI output remains un-changed.

Since the SDI output does not change, it appears to be the same as the component outputs when they are set to LIGHTER. Is both the LIGHTER component output and SDI output at 7.5 IRE? What happens if I use the component outputs and the DARKER setting...is it 0 IRE? I don't really understand this because it is explained differently by different people. I believe what is probably 7.5 IRE on the SDI outputs is ok for calibration, as the person who modded my dvd player and many others say it is fine, but why is there such a DARKER setting or 0 IRE setting? I obviously cannot use it.

What is the bottom line regarding these two DARKER and LIGHTER settings for Panasonic dvd players and their Component outputs, especially in the context of calibrating the SDI output with this get grey dvd? Is the SDI 7.5 IRE and if so, can I properly calibrate my setup with the SDI output as is?

thanx,

:)

For those interested and those that answered my questions regarding the use of GetGrey with HCFR, here's the response I received from a team member.

We use the same scale (Getgray matches PAL standard, the scale we use on our side of the pond ;) ).

Simply speaking: In ColorHCFR, 0 IRE is black, 100 IRE is white, and IRE levels are regularly spaced along the scale. When using Getgray disk in NTSC, go to Preferences/Reference, select standard NTSC and put a gamma reference "= 2.2". It will match Getgray percents. When using NTSC IRE values (not getgray), you should check gamma reference "from standard" in this dialog. It changes the reference gamma curve, according to NTSC IRE levels.

ColorHCFR is kind enough to let you use either system ;)

Howdy,

I ran GetGray through my LG LDA530 via component to my HP md5880n RPTV. Pleased to report that the gray ramp patterns showed that the display is fairly well tuned. However, I couldn't see any below black bars using the brightness pattern, or even the reference black bar, so it was just kind of guess work adjusting the brightness. The alternate method to adjust the +1% bar didn't seem to work either, since that bar would never disappear no matter how much I turned up the brightness. I settled on a setting near the original setting I had. Turning on the Black Level Extender on the player didn't seem to change things. The curious thing is when I look at the Gray Ramps I can see the delineations of the bars right down to reference black, so I'm not sure what's going on with the Brightness pattern. FWIW, this display has been reviewed more than once as having the best black levels of any DLP RPTV going.

I didn't have any difficulty adjusting the contrast with the contrast pattern, the above white bars were well visible and disappeared nicely as I made the adjustment.

The thing that threw me for a loop (there is a pun there :rolleyes: ) was the color&tint pattern. I used a blue Lee Filter #132, which may have something to do with this, or maybe I didn't read the instructions correctly, which says that "the blinking part of the animated pattern will be difficult to see when adjusted perfectly". OK, no matter how much I adjusted the saturation, those blinking patterns were plain as day. Surely they would diminish or become less noticeable as I made the adjustment, but nope, they stuck out like Rudolphs' nose no matter what I did. Surely this filter I'm using isn't that bad, I would think any good blue filter would do the job.

Anyway, I'm open to discussion.
Thanks.

Assuming that #132 is the correct filter, you may also need to adjust the contrast to get the blue/white squares to match. If blues are clipped you might not be getting enough blue in your white, if you know what I mean.

Well, I'm probably just missing something simple, but I assume that matching the levels of the blue and white meant to match the luminance, since there's no way you can match the tint.
Or is there?

The blue and white squares are indeed matching luminance (colour) but it assumes that your white square has the correct amount of blue in it. If you have too much blue in your white then you might not be able to match them.

How do I know this you ask? Because I have seen exactly this effect. No amount of colour adjustment was getting my blue and white to match because (as it turns out) my blue was severely crushed at the default contrast level.

Ok, I'm not a calibrationist, just joe average with a bit of television and video production background, but isn't luminance the brightness of an image,while chrominance is the colour level?

I'm matching the levels so that they appear uniform in their brightness, the whites don't change to blue or vice versa, which would be a chrominance change in my world. Anyway, no matter how much I adjusted the saturation either way, the whites and blues never matched in colour or even came close to matching, but I could get them to match in brightness.

The way I see it, the display was pretty close at it's default settings, which I tweaked by eye somewhat. I mean the brightness, contrast, saturation and hue were pretty darn good, so that I shouldn't have to make too much of an adjustment for any of these patterns. So for the color & tint pattern, I shouldn't have to go way off in order to make these levels match. Maybe it is the filter I'm using.

Perhaps someone can clarify what is meant by 'matching the levels' of the blue and white squares in the color & tint pattern.

Thanks

If you are looking at the white and blue squares through a blue filter you should see grey. When the two "greys" match, then your colour setting is correct.

If in fact you cannot match them by changing the saturation control, which is only going to affect the intensity of the blue only signal, then the only thing left to adjust is the white since it is incorrect.

It can be incorrect in several ways, but the most likely is that at high contrast levels the blue is being overdriven.

From the GetGray documentation, the filter you should be using is: Lee Deep Blue Tricolor 47B

Ok, well I guess it must be the filter since I see blue and white squares when I use the one I've got. Oh well. :o
Thanks

Assuming that #132 is the correct filter, you may also need to adjust the contrast to get the blue/white squares to match. If blues are clipped you might not be getting enough blue in your white, if you know what I mean.The correct Lee filter is the #071 and not the #132. This information was also posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8957882&&#post8957882, for anyone who is interested (like stucandu).

I have provided Scott with a edited version of the "Manual" with this information included. He was going to update it (when he gets "a round tuit" :rolleyes: ).

kemical_head -- You can order the DVE filters (not the DVD) from here: http://www.videoessentials.com/extra_filters.php. Or you can wait until GetGray get his filter form up on his site www.calibrate.tv. The DVE filters blue filter appears to be a little on the dark side, and the filters that GetGray will provide should be the Lee filter set that I've indicated in the AVS forum thread I referenced above.

Does the getgrey disc contain primary/secondary color saturation scales? ie say red from 0 ire to 100 ire in 10 unit increments?

Thanks

From the GetGray documentation, the filter you should be using is: Lee Deep Blue Tricolor 47B

The correct Lee filter is the #071 and not the #132. This information was also posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8957882&&#post8957882, for anyone who is interested (like stucandu).



:confused: :confused: :confused:

These are two very different filters, can someone please clarify which of these are the right ones.

Meanwhile I ordered a pair of the THX Optimizer glasses, hoping that they will do the job. Anyone know about that?

Thanks.

EDIT> OK, I checked the documentation and it states that the THX glasses are suitable and that the Lee Filter is indeed the 47B, so I have to guess that the Lee #071 is a substitute for the 47B. Yes, No?

EDIT> OK, I checked the documentation and it states that the THX glasses are suitable and that the Lee Filter is indeed the 47B, so I have to guess that the Lee #071 is a substitute for the 47B. Yes, No?
Sorry for the confusion. THX glasses work perfectly. As for Lee filters they have more than one name/number IIRC. I'll check my filter book when I get home, double check and report back definatively.

Just checked. Lee 071 is the correct blue. It is identical to the THX glasses. 47B is only available in color separation phtographic packs as linked in the DVD's documentation. It is not part of te standard polyester filter set. #132 (medium blue) is definately not the right filter. It's transmission specs show that it lets a LOT of the other colors through.

I have updated the DVD "manual" just a little in Appendix A. I removed some info and added a little clarification. No need to run download it, the changes are not significant. Thanks as always to Claus for the help and input on the manual.

Thanks for your clarification. I'll await the delivery of my THX glasses with bated breath.
Especially since they couldn't post the shipping charges and said that they will be added afterwards. :eek:

I have a plasma tv and got the getgray disk. but notice that settings on my contrast on my plasma is set too high using getgray disk. contrast 93 and brightness 43 is this normal?

That's not enough information to say if it's normal or not. There are too many other variables that come into play.

I finally received my THX glasses in the mail today. So now I have calibrated color and tint. I had previously calibrated the brightness and contrast. Although I do not have any professional instrumentation, the GetGray calibration disk has worked great.

Question: What about the iris setting when doing the calibrations. My iris is adjustable (JVC HD-61FN97). I calibrated with the iris at -4. Of course as you increase the iris setting it gets brighter so then what will effect the contrast/brightness settings. Recommendations? Thanks.

I finally received my THX glasses in the mail today.


I'd be interested in just how long it took to get your glasses after you ordered them.
I just ordered some and if it's going to be like 6 weeks I'll go and find the Lee Filters somewhere.
Thanks

I ordered some a few months ago. It took about 10 days.

Joe

I'd be interested in just how long it took to get your glasses after you ordered them.
I just ordered some and if it's going to be like 6 weeks I'll go and find the Lee Filters somewhere.
Thanks

It took exactly 10 business days

Hello,

Thank you for contacting THX Ltd. Typically its takes at least 10 business days to receive your order via ground shipping. Please wait until tomorrow afternoon and if has still not arrive please contact us again.

Best regards,

THX

Order Date: 11/23/2006 10:20:56 AM
Purchased By: Marshall Sinback

Shipping Method: Ground

Product Description Size Quantity Unit Price Total Fulfillment Data
Optimizer Glasses
Item #: THX-0143
Each 1 $1.00 $1.00
SubTotal: $1.00
Discount: ($0.35)
Sales Tax: $0.00
Shipping: $1.10
Handling: $2.00
Order Total: $3.75

I finally received my THX glasses in the mail today. So now I have calibrated color and tint. I had previously calibrated the brightness and contrast. Although I do not have any professional instrumentation, the GetGray calibration disk has worked great.

Question: What about the iris setting when doing the calibrations. My iris is adjustable (JVC HD-61FN97). I calibrated with the iris at -4. Of course as you increase the iris setting it gets brighter so then what will effect the contrast/brightness settings. Recommendations? Thanks.
After further experimentation I see now that the iris setting really does not effect the calibration of brightness and contrast.

Thanks, I'll tack on 4-5 days since I'm north of the border.

will this work with lcds too?

will this work with lcds too?

yes.

Any one know about how long it takes before receiving the download link form GetGray (URL NOW ALLOWED)? I ordered mine yesterday (12.10.06) around 11AM EST and have not received any confirmation besides the one from paypal.

thanks in advanced

Any one know about how long it takes before receiving the download link form GetGray (URL NOW ALLOWED)? I ordered mine yesterday (12.10.06) around 11AM EST and have not received any confirmation besides the one from paypal.

thanks in advancedPer the website, 24 hours. But your's was mailed last night at 10:55Pm EST. Usually they go out in a few hours, depending on where I am in relation to a computer.

Edit second email received Thank you :)

It took me a couple of HDD searches, but I finally found my information on the color filters for calibration use.

According to one of the AVIA calibration FAQs, their filter numbers are:
Deep Red Tricolor #29
Deep Green Tricolor #61
Deep Blue Tricolor #47B

The Lee Filter numbers, per another AVS forum thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7217162&&#post7217162), were identified by GetGray (you forgot, Scott :rolleyes: ), and verified by Lee, via rwestly & Daryl L.

The correct Lee Filters (as of 2/28/06) are:
Tokyo Blue = #071
Primary Red = #106
Primary Green = #139
{NOTE: Lee’s Tokyo Blue is their equivalent to the Kodak #47B, Deep Blue Tricolor.}

Please explain how to use these color filters with the Saturation & Tint patterns.

Do you look through a filter color, say blue, and look at the saturation & Tint pattern and adjust the blue. Then do this for the red & green filters as well ?

Quick question - is there an updated ship date and cost for the DVD for those of us without burners? (Yes, I'm going to try to track down a friend...but...) I read quite a few pages and tried searching to no avail. Just curious. Thanks.

I do not normally burn them and mail due to time constraints. But I do do it occasionally (reluctantly) at a significantly higher contribution (almost double). PM me if you can't round up a buddy with a burner and want to go that route. It's not that I want to stick it to anyone, it's just that I really don't have time to fiddle with them much.

Highway robbery! (erm...donation...)

J/k. Thanks for the offer - I'm sure i can find someone, it just might take me awhile. It's all good. My new H79 is eagerly awaiting some tweaking :)

Cool. Fire it up.

I've burned it to a DVD-R and it is indeed recognized in my HD-A1 as a HD DVD. It displays full 1920x1080 on my projector.

So will the filters that came with my DVE disc work with the GetGray patterns?

Rob

So will the filters that came with my DVE disc work with the GetGray patterns?Yes, perfectly.

Please explain how to use these color filters with the Saturation & Tint patterns.

Do you look through a filter color, say blue, and look at the saturation & Tint pattern and adjust the blue. Then do this for the red & green filters as well ?The instructions are in the "ReadMe" / "Manual" / "Instructions" that are on the www.calibrate.tv web site (and, I believe, included in the download - I haven't looked at it in a long time).

To set the Color & Tint, only the blue filter is used.

The Red & Dreen filters can be used with some of the other color bar patterns to check the color decoder tracking and for more advenced testing - not included in the "ReadMe" file and require more advanced knowledge of dislay calibration. You can go to the AVIA or Video Essentials web sites for more details - een more information is available on other threads and in Poynton's reference work (http://www.poynton.com/Poynton-color.html), which requires more advanced knowledge.

Does anyone have the jpeg image of the GET GRAY label. I just burned myself a backup copy cause my original was starting to get a little scratched & want to apply a new label to my copy.

Thanks so much Guys!!!!
Carmine.

It's included in the NTSC Ver. 1.1 Zip file (but not in the older Ver 1.0 zip file). I don't know about the PAL version. If you send me a PM with your email address, I can send it (the NTSC Ver 1.1) to you. I will be on a trip for the next 3 days, so that is not the quickest way to get it (unless you send me a PM ASAP - tonight).

Your official web site under the PAL 1.1 disc, it still references to NTSC....Just thought you would like to know :p

Oliver

Your official web site under the PAL 1.1 disc, it still references to NTSC....Just thought you would like to knowOops. I probably messed it up when I removed the "files" option and updated the descriptions. Thanks for letting me know, will fix this evening.

Very happy with my purchase of this disc. It enabled me to quickly and easily set black and white levels, and then I moved onto overscan and was suprised to see my set needing some adjustments there too. My display is noticeably better now, thanks Get Gray.

Very happy with my purchase of this disc. It enabled me to quickly and easily set black and white levels, and then I moved onto overscan and was suprised to see my set needing some adjustments there too. My display is noticeably better now, thanks Get Gray.

Heh, Forum Infomercial :p

Heehee. Yes, good user, good user :):)

Has anyone made a dvd cover and print for the dvd? (to make it look pro :))
It's not included in the PAL version (which I have).

If anyone could mail it to me, I'd be greatful. anbjork(at)gmail.com


Thanks

anbjork: No cover, but there is label art for PAL and NTSC in the MISC folder on the DVD.

Found it, thank you :)

Do % Amplitude values change between NTSC and HDTV? Looking at the Getgrey table, what is IRE,Digital used for or when?

Do % Amplitude values change between NTSC and HDTV? Looking at the Getgrey table, what is IRE,Digital used for or when?
Well, HDTV and NTSC aren't really thigs to compare, but no, % amplitude is a constant between systems. It is one reason is is used is just becasue it is constant across systems. IRE can be the same, or differnet depending on something called "setup". Chris wrote a very nice reference on the subject, see the thread "go-to guide for source options" (IIRC) for a detailed explanation. But for practical usage, jsut be sure if you are using a software package you choose the correct program options so you are using %ampliture, not IRE units. The term IRE gets misued a LOT, so it is possible or even likely a software package will misuse it as well. You can look for things like IRE with "no setup" which should make 0IRE = 0% amplitude = video black. If 7.5 IRE = video black, then it's not set correctly.

Really the only thing it would affect is a gamma calculation from measured values. Getting a flat grayscale woudl not have an effect other thatn you are measuring it at very slightly different points along the "luminance" (brightness as in from black to white) axis. There is some brief information about this in teh appendix of the DVD's documentation showing the realtion between IRE (with setup) and % amplitude.

Most people who really have a handle on the issue will recommend the more correct % amplitude over IRE units.

If you are a CalMan user then I'm pretty sure Bill used %Amplitude with his software.

getgray covered it. In the digital domain, SD content (Rec 601) and HD content (Rec709) all use the same 16-235 norminal range.

In the analog world, US NTSC does have a 7.5IRE setup pedestal that other systems (both SD and HD) generally do not use, and this can cause issues in systems where different standards are in use. But in the digital domain such as what is authored on the disc the digital levels are unchanged. % should not change though, even though levels or IRE with analog outs/ins may change. 0% is 0% and 0% is black, regardless of how that is conveyed. 0% doesn't suddely become somethig other than 0% in a different system. It may be represented differently, but the intent of 0% is still the same: black.

Got it thanks getgray, chris.

New question:). Sorry if it doesn't belong here. I want to calibrate from my XBOX, should I use 0-255?

Hi

I also had issues with the contrast level settings.
Although my DVD player had a "white level" setting which used to make the white bar dissapear.
Worked great, but I hope changing white level in my DVD didn't cause any other issues.

Also I noticed that black levels adjusted with GetGray differ from black levels adjusted with the THX Optimzer pattern.
I could see one square to many in THX after getgray.
No big deal though, just curious :)

Anyway Scott, thanks for a great disc!
The colors on my new plasma look so much better even my girlfriend noticed :D

Also I noticed that black levels adjusted with GetGray differ from black levels adjusted with the THX Optimzer pattern.
I could see one square to many in THX after getgray.
No big deal though, just curious :)The THX patters are known to be significantly different from disc to disc, so in the sense of a pure correct setting, they are nto a good standard. I suppose the intent is to adjust the set for each DVD, but that' not very practical. They are better than nothing, but they are not reference quality like the GetGray DVD (or DVE Pro, Avia Pro).

Hey guys got a question regarding the Contrast test pattern. When trying to adjust the contrast on my Sony LCD RPTV (55XS955) the +2%, +5% bars never completely disappear into the background. I pushed my picture setting to the max & the 2 bars were still very visible. How else should I set my contrast to its optimum setting? Is there a service menu option on this particular tv that allows me to push the contrast higher then the allowed user menu settings to make the bars disappear?

Thanks so much guys!!!
Carmine.
I have this same issue with my Westinghouse 42-w2 LCD. With the contrast all the way up to 100%, the + bars are still clearly visible, not even close to disappearing into the reference background. Is this a fault of the display?

I have this same issue with my Westinghouse 42-w2 LCD. With the contrast all the way up to 100%, the + bars are still clearly visible, not even close to disappearing into the reference background. Is this a fault of the display?

This is not that abnormal. The key is to look for either clipping OR colorshifting. Colorshifting is much more subtle and harder to see than plain old hard clipping. Look very carefully. A very high setting may be okay if things are getting crushed/compressed, or colorshifted, or of course more severely clipped.

Thanks Chris, and I found why it was doing this. I won't go further off topic from the thread on this, but I must say that I've learned so much more just from using this disk.

I'm sure this is somewhere in this Thread but.....can anyone tell me what the background level is behind the 10% Gray window patterns ? I can't remember whether it is Video Black or not . It seems I can see the 0% Pattern easily on the background even though I've adjusted Brightness in the previous menu pattern.

Thanks ,

Scott................ :confused:

I'm sure this is somewhere in this Thread but.....can anyone tell me what the background level is behind the 10% Gray window patterns ? I can't remember whether it is Video Black or not . It seems I can see the 0% Pattern easily on the background even though I've adjusted Brightness in the previous menu pattern.Page 10, about half way through page:
The gray window patterns have a background of digital 1, Maximum Black. So the background is below black, or it's supposed to be anyway:)

After calibrating my LCD tv with Avia I find that the shadows are too dark and lacking detail. Would I be better off with GetGray?

After calibrating my LCD tv with Avia I find that the shadows are too dark and lacking detail. Would I be better off with GetGray?Technically, they should acheive the identical result. That said, I went toa lot of trouble to make what I felt was a much easier to use brightness pattern. If it's easier to use, it has a higher likelyhood of enabling the correct setting. But the bottom line is both are designed to get to the identical adjustment.

GetGray,

I bought your disc awhile back and it's great. But I just got my first Sony (32XBR2) that has a gamma setting in the users menu (off, low, medium, high). Being my first set to ever have a gamma setting so it's a new type of adjsment for me. Is there a pattern on GetGray helpful for making the best gamma choice? I tried the gamma chart on Avia but it's not as cut&dry an adjustment as say contrast or brightness. It fools my untrained eye.

GetGray,

I bought your disc awhile back and it's great. But I just got my first Sony (32XBR2) that has a gamma setting in the users menu (off, low, medium, high). Being my first set to ever have a gamma setting so it's a new type of adjsment for me. Is there a pattern on GetGray helpful for making the best gamma choice? I tried the gamma chart on Avia but it's not as cut&dry an adjustment as say contrast or brightness. It fools my untrained eye.No, sorry. I didn't try to make one for the reason you just described. I never got much out of that one, either. Maybe one of the calibrators here can offer some advise on how to choose from the available selections. If no one chimes in, try a new thread.

Without the equipment to plot the gamma, it is very difficult to use test patterns to make gamma selections. In this case I would recommend viewing a wide range of material and making the deterination based on what you see.

Sorry if this has already been asked but can I order a burned copy of GetGray? My connection is a pathetic 28K so I don't know if I could even get the complete file downloaded. Thanks.

Thx GetGray and lcaillo. It's no biggy. I just wanted to check since I was unsure about any usefulness of a pattern on the disc.

In episode 124 of DL.TV, Robert Heron (Screen Name: dangled) discusses calibration. Prominently displayed on the TV behind him, and described as his "favorite", is the GetGray Calibration DVD.

P

Cool. The DVD's 15 seconds of fame :) Link was here:
http://zdpub.vo.llnwd.net/o2/ziffdavisplayer/flvplayer.html?movie=episode124 Click on the calibration shortcut on bottom right...

Very cool Gary I bet you fell Proud.

All I need is a DVD burner and then I will get GETGARY. I hope to buy one soon.

It's Gray. lysdlexia? :D ;) :)

On my new Pioneer DV-696-AV-S DVD player the image jumps a bit each time it loops back to the start of the video for the test pattern being shown. Makes it hard to do things like the overscan adjustment.

Also, using the same equipment I get different results between the get gray overscan test pattern and the Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-Up anomorphic test pattern. I dont rule out the possibility the Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-Up pattern is bugged.

Caldor -- The "jumping" happens on some DVD players (some Oppo 971 owner's have reported this too).

I think the S&V overscan pattern, like AVIA & DVE, is a static pattern. The GetGray pattern is dynamic (as you've observed). I've noticed a different result between GetGray and AVIA or DVE, also. I'm not sure exactly why, but I know that the GetGray pattern is correct. Some overscan for SD & HD TV programs is usually required to eliminate garbage that is in the TV signal on the top (usually), bottom (rarely), left side (sometimes), and right side (occasionally). Most broadcast sources assume that the display is running around a 5%, and at least 2%, overscan.

Caldor -- The "jumping" happens on some DVD players (some Oppo 971 owner's have reported this too).
Yeap, I have a 971 and it jumps. Wonder why they didn't make the patterns static, at least grayscale, P/S?

Because static patterns don't always give you the correct response to display adjustments. You need dynamic signals to correctly adjust the display.

Thanks CT_Wiebe, good insights, The problem could be made less of an issue by increasing the size of the test patterns lengths. Yes this will make ISO distribution larger but it would help to mask the problem.

I've burned it to a DVD-R and it is indeed recognized in my HD-A1 as a HD DVD. It displays full 1920x1080 on my projector.


Ok so I'm calibrating my Xbox360 hd-dvd drive over component... of course..... and I'm wondering if the Getgray disc will work since it's only SD. I was just reading over in the HD-DVD thread that you can make put HD content on DVDs and that they'll be read as a HD-dvd (found here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146) ) and now scaesare says he's done it.... but I don't know what he's done. I tried searching and couldn't find out through any of his past posts. I'm wondering why there isn't an HD version of this that could be burned to DVD and read as an HD-DVD? My version of Getgray as it stands now is not being read as 1920x1080 through my HD-DVD player like scaesare is doing. It's not the res that I'm after.... It's the Rec 709 that I believe I'm supposed to be calibrating to and it's my understanding that SD is Rec 601.

Please help a confused guy out! Thanks.

I have a Pioneer PRO1140 and have been spending hours on learning how calibration settings interact (using SpyderTV and Getgray). I have process questions on how to optimize the CIE color triangle. As a note, the 1140 has separate adjustments for each primary and secondary color (nice!).

This is the starting point for color adjustment after the gray scale and color temp is setup:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=71999&stc=1
initial.jpg

I can get the red right on by moving toward yellow, but the green is so far out that pulling it toward yellow causes it to drop to inside the triangle.

Do I leave green as is and adjust the secondaries such that they line up with the primary and D65 (even if the primary is incorrect)?

Or, do I bring green in as close as I can, then follow up with lining up the secondaries even if it becomes less green and less saturated?

Last, to confirm, the ideal adjustment for secondaries is to line them up with wherever white is and wherever the opposing primary is, even if they are not on the triangle, correct?

TIA -

-Dave

I have a Pioneer PRO1140 and have been spending hours on learning how calibration settings interact (using SpyderTV and Getgray). I have process questions on how to optimize the CIE color triangle. As a note, the 1140 has separate adjustments for each primary and secondary color (nice!).

This is the starting point for color adjustment after the gray scale and color temp is setup:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=71999&stc=1
initial.jpg

I can get the red right on by moving toward yellow, but the green is so far out that pulling it toward yellow causes it to drop to inside the triangle.

Do I leave green as is and adjust the secondaries such that they line up with the primary and D65 (even if the primary is incorrect)?

Or, do I bring green in as close as I can, then follow up with lining up the secondaries even if it becomes less green and less saturated?

Last, to confirm, the ideal adjustment for secondaries is to line them up with wherever white is and wherever the opposing primary is, even if they are not on the triangle, correct?

TIA -

-Dave

Hi Dave - Your question is very common when learning about adjusting colors. The answer unfortunately is that you cannot move the green where you want it. This is because you can only move the points along the dashed line which represents your pjs gamut.

So you can move green towards red and stop at the point where it hits the solid white line, but from there you will not be able to move it up the white line to 0.6, 0.3. This has nothing to do with the color management controls but rather the physical capabilities of your unit.

If you want to try and get things as close as you can, I'd suggest the following:

- use green hue control and move it toward yellow/red until it hits the white line, then you are finished with green

- (assuming it provides control for secondary colors) use yellow hue control to move it a bit toward green. It will finish up a bit under the yellow point (closer to D65 point; a bit under saturated. Do not use its saturation control to push it off the dotted line even if it will let you move it to the Rec 709 yellow - you do not want to do this since it should be equal with how green and red are set (stay on the dotted line).

- move red in using red hue shifting toward green/yellow. Stop at the white line.

- this should move magenta to the white line but otherwise keep it on the dotted line

- use blue saturation control to move it a tad in (toward the D65 white point) until it hits the Rec 709 point for blue

- shift cyan using hue back toward blue until it is nearer cyan's reference point

You may find that you like the default color gamut when all is said and done, but it doesn't hurt to experiment.

When you are doing post another screen shot of your gamut.

lovingdvd - thanks for the input! I finally achieved ok (I think) values. See the image below. The settings ended up as follows:

R +16
G -25
B -6
Y -1
C -5
M +5

This with tint=0. After these adjustments, tint ended up at 7 (to red).

I had suspected that these settings would interact with the tint control, but had no idea how bad it would be! Correcting tint would change the gamut which would affect tint. I chased tint toward red for a while before I realized there would be no end to it.

So - the image below is before the final tint adjustment (toward red). Question now is: is this correct - do I set the gamut then finalize the tint (knowing it moves the gamut)?

-Dave

p.s. Now I know why ISF calibration is not cheap! :)

Hi,

Stupid question: I own the AVIA and DVE but heard that you disc is the easiest to use. Now I wanted to download it but couldn't find the download link. DO I have to contribute to the disc or pay money in order to download a copy? Is this then kind of a retail disc or is this a free disc for forum members?

Thanks!

Hi,

Stupid question: I own the AVIA and DVE but heard that you disc is the easiest to use. Now I wanted to download it but couldn't find the download link. DO I have to contribute to the disc or pay money in order to download a copy? Is this then kind of a retail disc or is this a free disc for forum members?

Thanks!

Min $25.00 contribution..so Iheard, I just made one and waiting for download link ..

Min $25.00 contribution..so Iheard, I just made one and waiting for download link ..
Ah, OK. From post #719 which the first post refers you to, I gathered that this project was free to members of this forum and was kind of a kindness of heart thing from the more talented calibrators to us beginners.

$25 isn't much but given I have to burn it myself (or rather let a friend do it :( ) and the HD-DVD including DVD version of the DVE is just $12, I would have guessed the DVE is a better investement?

Hope HCFR remains free ;)

Yeap, I have a 971 and it jumps. Wonder why they didn't make the patterns static, at least grayscale, P/S?

ditto - with the jump on the 971..

I just downloaded yesterday, and I love this disk already..especially when Calibrating with HCFR. I can use the 30/80 patterns to adjust greyscale and then due a full run..

btw..

I was never able to do the contrast as suggested originally on the GetGray document (get the +2 and +5 to dissapear), so I was able to get -1% to disappear and click up to barely reappear. Is this correct, because the 2nd option is generalliy if +2 and +5 do no show up, but mine did, but never would dissapear..beside, I noticed color shifting when trying to make them dissapear, so I back up and did the -1% instead..

btw.. Mits3000U DLP-FP

I just downloaded yesterday, and I love this disk already..

Ah, OK. From post #719 which the first post refers you to, I gathered that this project was free to members of this forum and was kind of a kindness of heart thing from the more talented calibrators to us beginners.

$25 isn't much but given I have to burn it myself (or rather let a friend do it :( ) and the HD-DVD including DVD version of the DVE is just $12, I would have guessed the DVE is a better investement?

Hope HCFR remains free ;)The GetGray Caldisc has never been "free". If you're happy with DVE, then that's your option, no one is "twisting your arm". Nowever, considering the cost of your display, saving $10-$15 is false economy, IMHO (but your preference, of course).

NOTE: I own AVIA, DVE and the GetGray Caldisc. I consider them to be worthwhile investments for both as learning tools and for calibrating my displays (all of them). Together, they cost less that a dinner for four in a good restaurant.

Okay -

just wanted to make sure that setting contrast the way I did it is correct or not

"I was never able to do the contrast as suggested originally on the GetGray document (get the +2 and +5 to dissapear), so I was able to get -1% to disappear and click up to barely reappear. Is this correct, because the 2nd option is generalliy if +2 and +5 do not show up, but mine did, but never would dissapear..beside, I noticed color shifting when trying to make them dissapear, so I back up and did the -1% instead.."

btw.. Mits3000U DLP-FP

Ok so I'm calibrating my Xbox360 hd-dvd drive over component... of course..... and I'm wondering if the Getgray disc will work since it's only SD. I was just reading over in the HD-DVD thread that you can make put HD content on DVDs and that they'll be read as a HD-dvd (found here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146) ) and now scaesare says he's done it.... but I don't know what he's done. I tried searching and couldn't find out through any of his past posts. I'm wondering why there isn't an HD version of this that could be burned to DVD and read as an HD-DVD? My version of Getgray as it stands now is not being read as 1920x1080 through my HD-DVD player like scaesare is doing. It's not the res that I'm after.... It's the Rec 709 that I believe I'm supposed to be calibrating to and it's my understanding that SD is Rec 601.

Please help a confused guy out! Thanks.

I'm really surprised nobody jumped on this and responded. I'm in the same boat looking for an HD-DVD and Blu-Ray calibration disc. I followed the instructions for burning the HD-DVD at http://www.w6rz.net/ and it didn't work on my XBOX-360 HD-DVD player. The XBOX 360 just seemed to lock up when reading this disc. Putting the disc in my computer, I can see the HD-DVD files, so I know the disc is burned and readable.

On the Blu-Ray, all Sony Discs have video calibration easter eggs hidden. Just hit 7669-Enter and it will bring up the hidden calibration screens. However, I found these screens useless for a meaningful calibration because there weren't any grayscale calibration screens.

So the $64,000 questions are:
1) Who has HD-DVD and Blu-Ray calibration discs.
2) When will GetGray come out with one in either format?

I can burn blu-ray and test it on a PS-3 if anybody can create one.

Ok so I'm calibrating my Xbox360 hd-dvd drive over component... of course..... and I'm wondering if the Getgray disc will work since it's only SD. I was just reading over in the HD-DVD thread that you can make put HD content on DVDs and that they'll be read as a HD-dvd (found here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146) ) and now scaesare says he's done it.... but I don't know what he's done. I tried searching and couldn't find out through any of his past posts. I'm wondering why there isn't an HD version of this that could be burned to DVD and read as an HD-DVD? My version of Getgray as it stands now is not being read as 1920x1080 through my HD-DVD player like scaesare is doing. It's not the res that I'm after.... It's the Rec 709 that I believe I'm supposed to be calibrating to and it's my understanding that SD is Rec 601.

Please help a confused guy out! Thanks.

I'm really surprised nobody jumped on this and responded. I'm in the same boat looking for an HD-DVD and Blu-Ray calibration disc. I followed the instructions for burning the HD-DVD at http://www.w6rz.net/ and it didn't work on my XBOX-360 HD-DVD player. The XBOX 360 HD-DVD player just seemed to lock up when reading this disc. Putting the disc in my computer, I can see the HD-DVD files, so I know the disc is burned and readable.

On the Blu-Ray, all Sony Discs have video calibration easter eggs hidden. Just hit 7669-Enter and it will bring up the hidden calibration screens. However, I found these screens useless for a meaningful calibration because there weren't any grayscale calibration screens.

So the $64,000 questions are:
1) Who has HD-DVD and Blu-Ray calibration discs.
2) When will GetGray come out with one in either format?

I can burn blu-ray and test it on a PS-3 and Sony Viao laptop if anybody can create the ISO.

In the thread here that discusses burning the HD patterns in HD-DVD format there is an update for burning a Xbox360 compatible disc.

I have done that and it works on my 360.

In the thread here that discusses burning the HD patterns in HD-DVD format there is an update for burning a Xbox360 compatible disc.

I have done that and it works on my 360.

Can you please link the thread?

Thanks.

The specific post is here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9004903&&#post9004903

Okay -

just wanted to make sure that setting contrast the way I did it is correct or not

"I was never able to do the contrast as suggested originally on the GetGray document (get the +2 and +5 to dissapear), so I was able to get -1% to disappear and click up to barely reappear. Is this correct, because the 2nd option is generalliy if +2 and +5 do not show up, but mine did, but never would dissapear..beside, I noticed color shifting when trying to make them dissapear, so I back up and did the -1% instead.."

btw.. Mits3000U DLP-FPThe inability of making the +2% & +5% bars disappear on the Contrast pattern has been discussed many times (in this thread, IIRC, and other threads). This is due to the way your PJ electronics work. In that case, you adjust your Contrast control so the gray scale bars are resolved and you get no color shift (like you did). The Brightness (black level) should be handled the same way (you want the maximum black level detail and want to be able to just barely see the first bar to the right of the 0% (video black) bar (and double check with the gray scale patterns).

NOTE: If you have any of the Mits "Auto" controls turned ON, you will not be able to calibrate your 3000U correctly.

The inability of making the +2% & +5% bars disappear on the Contrast pattern has been discussed many times (in this thread, IIRC, and other threads). This is due to the way your PJ electronics work. In that case, you adjust your Contrast control so the gray scale bars are resolved and you get no color shift (like you did). The Brightness (black level) should be handled the same way (you want the maximum black level detail and want to be able to just barely see the first bar to the right of the 0% (video black) bar (and double check with the gray scale patterns).

NOTE: If you have any of the Mits "Auto" controls turned ON, you will not be able to calibrate your 3000U correctly.

thanks so much...no AUTO controls on this projector

Hi Dave - Your question is very common when learning about adjusting colors. The answer unfortunately is that you cannot move the green where you want it. This is because you can only move the points along the dashed line which represents your pjs gamut.

So you can move green towards red and stop at the point where it hits the solid white line, but from there you will not be able to move it up the white line to 0.6, 0.3. This has nothing to do with the color management controls but rather the physical capabilities of your unit.

If you want to try and get things as close as you can, I'd suggest the following:

- use green hue control and move it toward yellow/red until it hits the white line, then you are finished with green

- (assuming it provides control for secondary colors) use yellow hue control to move it a bit toward green. It will finish up a bit under the yellow point (closer to D65 point; a bit under saturated. Do not use its saturation control to push it off the dotted line even if it will let you move it to the Rec 709 yellow - you do not want to do this since it should be equal with how green and red are set (stay on the dotted line).

- move red in using red hue shifting toward green/yellow. Stop at the white line.

- this should move magenta to the white line but otherwise keep it on the dotted line

- use blue saturation control to move it a tad in (toward the D65 white point) until it hits the Rec 709 point for blue

- shift cyan using hue back toward blue until it is nearer cyan's reference point

You may find that you like the default color gamut when all is said and done, but it doesn't hurt to experiment.

When you are doing post another screen shot of your gamut.

My TV exceeds the CIE color gamut on all axes. Assuming I wanted to move it to the cie gamut, what's the methodology required? Unlike the previous guy, I can only adjust R-G-B saturation/hue, not RGBCMY separately. I have a Lumagen video processor, and all of the calibration gear necessary for the job. I'd like to experiment with one of the Lumagen memories. What's the process for doing this with RGB only controls?

My TV exceeds the CIE color gamut on all axes. Assuming I wanted to move it to the cie gamut, what's the methodology required? Unlike the previous guy, I can only adjust R-G-B saturation/hue, not RGBCMY separately. I have a Lumagen video processor, and all of the calibration gear necessary for the job. I'd like to experiment with one of the Lumagen memories. What's the process for doing this with RGB only controls?

You do not use RGB controls to change color. Instead you need to use the separate RGB controls that your processor or display provides specific to the saturation, hue and lightness (lumenance) of each color.

..., what's the methodology required? Unlike the previous guy, I can only adjust R-G-B saturation/hue, not RGBCMY separately. I have a Lumagen video processor, ... Only a very few TV models actually allow you to change the gamut. The service manual (not the user manual) for TV would provide the info if the TV had the capability. (This is where I found the info for my Samsung.) Some top of the line video processors allow you to shift the gamut for TVs without the gamut controls. The user manual for the VP would contain this info if the VP had the capability.

You do not use RGB controls to change color. Instead you need to use the separate RGB controls that your processor or display provides specific to the saturation, hue and lightness (lumenance) of each color.

I thought I was clear that I'd be using the Lumagen video processor to make these changes -- and it has separate R-G-B hue/saturation controls. In other words, the situation sounds identical to the other guy...sans CMY hue/saturation controls.

What would the process be without these extra controls?

lovingdvd: any thoughts on my results in post 1380? I think having cyan and magenta hanging out there (not on the measured or reference triangle) is a problem, which is why the tint is off.

-Dave

lovingdvd - thanks for the input! I finally achieved ok (I think) values. See the image below. The settings ended up as follows:

R +16
G -25
B -6
Y -1
C -5
M +5

This with tint=0. After these adjustments, tint ended up at 7 (to red).

I had suspected that these settings would interact with the tint control, but had no idea how bad it would be! Correcting tint would change the gamut which would affect tint. I chased tint toward red for a while before I realized there would be no end to it.

So - the image below is before the final tint adjustment (toward red). Question now is: is this correct - do I set the gamut then finalize the tint (knowing it moves the gamut)?

-Dave

p.s. Now I know why ISF calibration is not cheap! :)

What controls were you using to move RGBCYM here? Separate saturation, hue and lightness controls are available through your CMS? If not and you are using Color/Tint for this forget about it. The gamut you have is undersaturated. I do not know if this is a measurement error (what does your gamut look like if you measure with all settings at default? and if it still measures like this try turning your Brightness control down and remeasure) or the result of your tweaking but its not something I'd think you'd want to run with. And yes Cyan is considerably off. Wouldn't be concerned about that slight error in magenta.

What controls were you using to move RGBCYM here? Separate saturation, hue and lightness controls are available through your CMS? If not and you are using Color/Tint for this forget about it. The gamut you have is undersaturated. I do not know if this is a measurement error (what does your gamut look like if you measure with all settings at default? and if it still measures like this try turning your Brightness control down and remeasure) or the result of your tweaking but its not something I'd think you'd want to run with. And yes Cyan is considerably off. Wouldn't be concerned about that slight error in magenta.

There are RGBCYM controls under color management section of the plasma display. This is different (obviously) than the RGB high and low adjustments for color temp (which I had adjusted first and got very close to D65 and a smooth gamma curve).

What happens for CIE is that as I move the green primary toward yellow (see my original post for the starting point), it dips below the white triangle and pulls cyan away from both. I believe I should move green much less - the question is: what should be the goal? If I can't be on the reference points (esp for green), what's the next best result I should be aiming for? Where do the secondaries go in this case?

Thanks a bunch for any advice!

-Dave

There are RGBCYM controls under color management section of the plasma display. This is different (obviously) than the RGB high and low adjustments for color temp (which I had adjusted first and got very close to D65 and a smooth gamma curve).

What happens for CIE is that as I move the green primary toward yellow (see my original post for the starting point), it dips below the white triangle and pulls cyan away from both. I believe I should move green much less - the question is: what should be the goal? If I can't be on the reference points (esp for green), what's the next best result I should be aiming for? Where do the secondaries go in this case?

Thanks a bunch for any advice!

-Dave

Can you post a screen shot of your gamut with no color correct at all - in its default setting for color? Based on that I may be inclined to recommend leaving the CMS tweaks alone. If the CMS works excellent as it does with the Sharp 20K for instance, than it is worth it. But otherwise it can really mess up the picture.

wow.... this thread sure has gone off topic !!!

:(

wow.... this thread sure has gone off topic !!!

:(

I agree - thought I was responding to a post in a different thread. Guys please start a new thread of for any questions related to calibration how-tos so we can keep this thread specific to the GetGray calibration disc itself.

Scott,

Just downloaded your NTSC DVD production V1.1 - also downloaded the imgburn
and I also used Nero to burn a DVD with no success - each time I put it into my
DVD player and it trys to load all I get is "No Support files Found" - I can look at
the patterns from the CD and see the menu when I put it back into my DVD burner
(PC) but no video just patterns when selected.

Something is missing - any suggestions - burned two (2) with no success - I burn
DVD etc all the time - video seems to be missing. Just sent my donation this AM

I agree - thought I was responding to a post in a different thread. Guys please start a new thread of for any questions related to calibration how-tos so we can keep this thread specific to the GetGray calibration disc itself.If you guys continue this discussion in another thread would you please post a link to it here so us lurkers can continue lurking. Thanks.

Scott,

Just downloaded your NTSC DVD production V1.1 - also downloaded the imgburn
and I also used Nero to burn a DVD with no success - each time I put it into my
DVD player and it trys to load all I get is "No Support files Found" - I can look at
the patterns from the CD and see the menu when I put it back into my DVD burner
(PC) but no video just patterns when selected.

Something is missing - any suggestions - burned two (2) with no success - I burn
DVD etc all the time - video seems to be missing. Just sent my donation this AM

I don't know what you could be doing wrong. A ton of them are out there and are working fine. Poor media will cause problems but not usually like what you describe.

First, download a fresh copy. Give it a different name when you save it to avoid any browser cache issues. Be sure the byte count looks correct. Then try to burn with imgburn. Plenty have had trouble using Nero, so do try Imgburn. Use good quality media, do use DVD not CD media as you were doing already.

"Explore" the DVD, there should be 3 folders VIDEO_TS (where the video lives) AUDIO_TS (empty) and MISC (some extra files).

If that doesn't work, if you'll post at this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=613686
there are some PC guru's there who may be able to assist you. I don't use Nero, but imgburn should work fine.

Appreciate your quick reply - Will do as you requested - if I don't have any requests today I
will check the forum as you mentioned tomorrow - again thanks - Bob

Appreciate your quick reply - Will do as you requested - if I don't have any requests today I
will check the forum as you mentioned tomorrow - again thanks - BobSee my response to another thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9468719&&#post9468719, for a hint as to how to do it with Nero Ultra 6 or Ultra 7.

I also posted this info in the thread that Scott (GetGray) provided a link to.

#2 FAQ: Why I'm not making a BR disc yet. I received Sony's authoring tool (Blu-print) "retail" pricing today from them, yikes: :eek:$50,000:eek::, $60k with any support.

Sounds like Sony doesn't want any independents showing them up :D. They also probably figure that's an easy way to get back some of their deveplopment costs.

OK, so I don't have a DVD burner and I'm trying to figure out who in my family does so that I can get this DVD finalized.

Anyway, I do have a CD burner and was thinking, "Gee, my OPPO will read CD's with the .iso file since that is what I use when upgrading firmware. I wonder if it will read the Get Gray files if I burn them to a CD"

So I download IMGBURN and unzip the files. Then I slap a CD into the burner and torch away using IMGBURN. Then I plop in the CD-R and low and behold, there is the Get Gray menu screen and ALL of the test patterns.

There is a catch though. All of the images act like an old film reel movie. They have a slight flicker when the image is static.

Can this be right? I would assume that burning to a DVD will clean this up?

Also, can someone either help me in understanding the Brightness & Contrast or at least link me to another thread. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing with the first 3 screens.

On the brightness I can see all of the black bars and the 0% bar is the same color as the black back ground. Refering to DVE, this tells me I'm to bright and turn that down. I'm gettng the same with contrast. I can see all of the white bars and 100% is the same as the back ground, which tell sme I need more contrast, again refering to DVE. Then with the slit screen on both black and white, I'm lost.

Please help. After using DVE (alot) I thought I could just jump into Get Gray but I must be not getting something.

thanks,
Rob

First of all, none of the test patterns are "static", they are all short looping clips of 5 to 30 seconds in duration. Second, the Oppo (I assume the 971) does have a known problem of exhibiting a jump every time the loop starts.

Since the GetGray video is small enough, burning it as a CD-Video should work just as good as a DVD. The "problems" that you are having is more likely due to the known Oppo bug (as mentioned above).

The use of these patterns are described on pages 6 and 7 of the ReadMe file that is included with the download and is also available from the www.calibrate.tv web page. If you downloaded the ISO file, then the "ReadMe" may also be on the CD-Video that you burned (also in the zip file that you downloaded). Please read this file, or you may not be able to use the GetGray dsic correctly.

I’m sending you a PM to provide a refresh on how to use these patterns. If you have other questions regarding the use of the GetGray Caldisc, and the ReadMe doesn’t answer them, feel free to send me a PM for clarification.

NOTE: On some displays, you will not be able to adjust the contrast level as described (you didn't mention what display you have). This is due to the way the display electronics is designed. If this is the case, then you adjust the Contrast so that there is no color shifting in the grayscale patterns.

with relatively recent DVD players, burning them to a CD should work fine.... it's older players where the problems may arise.... back in the day, the player would see you had inserted a CD and dogedly assume it was a VCD and lock-up... :eek:

:cool:

I could use some advice if you guys have time. I just purchased the Get Gray DVD and I gave it a whirl on my Xbox 360 hooked up to my Toshiba 50HP16 50" Plasma through one of my component inputs. In a dark room I set the Brightness such that the BtB bars are totally gone and the Contrast such that the +5% WtW bar is just barely visible. After that, I set my Color/Tint using the blue filter from my AVIA DVD. So far so good...until I look at the color ramps. My Red/Green/Blue color ramps are all crushed on the high end. I see no differentiation in the upper 5 bars or so. Altering my Red and Blue Drive/Cutoff in the service menu allowed me to see much more of the full spectrum of their respective colors but altering the Green Drive/Cutoff did nothing for the ramp; it just seemed to change the background on the border of the ramp. The only thing that seemed to work was lowering the contrast (which I believe makes sense since green carries luminance if I'm not mistaken.) Unfortunately after altering contrast my Gray Ramp now has no differentiation in the last 5 black bars. There seems to be no happy medium. So here a few questions.

1) Is this tradeoff between green color ramp and gray color ramp common and or normal?

2) Is there some way to fix this that I'm not thinking about? Now that I recall, I didn't try touching color/tint, should that help?

3) What is the background color of both the Grayscale ramp as well as the color ramps? In the docs it appears to be digital 16 since the background looks like it flows into the first few black bars of the ramp. When I have my brightness and contrast set to show no BtB bars and only a hint of the +5% WtW bar the background for the Grayscale ramp appears to blend in somewhere around the 5th black bar, something like Digital-30. Is this correct?

I have a Monaco Optix-XR (DTP94) on the way that should arrive friday. I plan to use this with ColorHCFR to get a better understanding of whats going on but I was hoping to get some understand beforehand.

I appreciate any help and advice that you can give me. Thanks!

Hey guys. I know there are huge debates going around about which is the "correct" gamma to use but which gamma within HCFR should i select when beginning a calibration?

A)DISPLAY GAMMA
B)DISPLAY GAMMA W/ BLACK COMPENSATION
C)CAMERA GAMMA (STANDARD OFFSET)
D)CAMERA GAMMA (MANUAL OFFSET...)
E)OPTIMIZED(REGRESSION)

p.s. I have a Sony LCD RPTV & also my measuring device is the EYE-ONE DISPLAY 2

Thanks guys!
Carmine.

SiegeX -- The backgrounds are digital 16, AFIK. The grayscale (5% steps) ramp covers the entire range from digital 1 (BTB) to digital 254 (WTW). The 0% (digital 16) and 100% (digital 235) bars are marked. This is covered in the ReadMe (Documentation/Instructions/Manual) file, starting on page 5. The color ramps only go from 0% to 100% stimulus. With the correct Brightness & Contrast settings, the top 2 and bottom 2 bars of the 5% step Gray Scale will appear to be "crushed".

The correct adjustments for both the Brightness are to make the BTB or WTW bars just disappear (the -1% & -4% for Brightness and +2% & +5% for Contrast). For some displays and/or sources, it may not be possible to make the WTW bars disappear. With these adjustments, the top 2 and bottom 2 bars on the 5% grayscale ramps will not be distinguishable (i.e., crushed). See page 6 & 7 of the ReadMe file.

You did the settings in the correct order, however, you set your Contrast level too high (but that may a personal choice, depending on other circumstances). After you made the adjustments of the Drives & Cuts, you need to go back and repeat the entire calibration sequence, starting with the Brightness level (the first step).

Another potential source of problems is that you may be running the Picture mode too high (making the color temperature too high - cold, higher than D65). I'm guessing here. Your display may also have other problems - like your color drive levels being too high.

NOTE: The Gray Scale adjustments may have some effect on the color settings but not the other way around. See page 16 of the ReadMe file.

noizemaker -- That subject should be taken up on the HCFR threads, it does not pertain to the Getgray calibration tool.

SiegeX -- The backgrounds are digital 16, AFIK. The grayscale (5% steps) ramp covers the entire range from digital 1 (BTB) to digital 254 (WTW). The 0% (digital 16) and 100% (digital 235) bars are marked. This is covered in the ReadMe (Documentation/Instructions/Manual) file. The color ramps only go from 0% to 100% stimulus.

Setting Brightness/Contrast such that the BTB and WTW bars just disappear and then going directly into the grayscale ramp shows that the background blends into the 10% increment ramp a few bars above where the Digital-16 bar is marked off. What gives?


The correct adjustments for both the Brightness are to make the BTB or WTW bars just disappear (the -1% & -4% for Brightness and +2% & +5% for Contrast). For some displays and/or sources, it may not be possible to make the WTW bars disappear. With these adjustments, the top 2 and bottom 2 bars on the 5% grayscale ramps will not be distinguishable (i.e., crushed). See page 6 & 7 of the ReadMe file.

I did as you described but took the liberty to make the +5% WTW bar one tick away from invisible as the docs mention that this could potentially lead to some details in clouds etc. I should note that in order to get these bars to disappear I had to go into the service menu and up the Max Contrast limit.


You did the settings in the correct order, however, you set your Contrast level too high (but that may a personal choice, depending on other circumstances). After you made the adjustments of the Drives & Cuts, you need to go back and repeat the entire calibration sequence, starting with the Brightness level (the first step).


When you say I set it too high, I'm thinking yes, but only too high by one tick. However from what I'm seeing its too high by quite a lot. It appears my panel is capable of making the WTW bars disappear but only by increasing the factory suggested contrast maximum as mentioned above. I do notice that my panel makes a noticeable humming noise when it tries to display a very bright white picture. Perhaps I'm driving it too hard and should live with both WTW bars showing?


Another potential source of problems is that you may be running the Picture mode too high (making the color temperature too high - cold, higher than D65). I'm guessing here. Your display may also have other problems - like your color drive levels being too high.

Ya, I'm sure ill get a better feel for this once my colorimeter comes in and I can measure the white point. Thanks for the quick response.

Oh Claus i'm so sorry i didn't even realize i posted it here!

Sorry again pal!
Carmine.

SiegeX -- Your choice on the Contrast setting is a valid reason. It sounds like you have either a LCD or Plasma flat panel display. It may not be decoding the color ramps correctly (just a guess).

If your panel is making a "humming" noise, then you definitely are driving it too hard - setting it to display WTW should not have an effect on it if the master (Picture control) is not set too high to start with. Try setting the "Picture" control to a lower level, like "movie", "film", etc. This will reduce the overall drive to the panel (and will make it darker looking, but better calibrated). Most displays are set to be way too bright, from the factory - it sells more sets in the stores, but is very unnatural. Depending on what your display calls it, most sets are set to "Dynamic" or "Sports", etc. Usually a "Normal" setting, or darker, is better for your display as well as being more realistic.

Your new (pending) colorimeter should help you set the color temperature closer to D65. That's the other adjustment (in addition to the Picture control) that usually needs to be turned down (warm is usually a better setting - display dependent - another factory setting screw-up which exaggerates the color scale).

noizemaker -- I figured that's what happened.

Your new (pending) colorimeter should help you set the color temperature closer to D65. That's the other adjustment (in addition to the Picture control) that usually needs to be turned down (warm is usually a better setting - display dependent - another factory setting screw-up which exaggerates the color scale).

From what I've seen with my toying around and what I previously understood is that the Temperature options on my TV (Cool, Normal, Warm) are altering the R/G/B Drive/Cutoff settings. And As soon as my colorimeter comes in it is my intension to alter the "Normal" temperature's Drive/Cutoffs to get my grayscale tracking lined up (closer to D65) through the use of the 75% Gray Window displays.

As far as the Picture control goes, the Sports/Movie/Normal picture settings set pre-defined Brightness/Contrast/Color/Tint/Sharpness settings. in addition to Sports, Movie and Normal I also have a "Memory" setting which allows me to customize the aforementioned options to my liking. It was my understanding that the whole point of calibrating is to set all of these options, Brightness/Contrast/Color/Tint/Sharpness/Drive/Cutoff to exactly what is right for your TV and to NOT use one of the pre-configured options.

To sum up I will be setting my Picture Control to "Memory" in order to set Brightness/Contrast/Color/Tint/Sharpness/Temperature to my custom levels. Furthermore, the temperature setting I will be choosing is "Normal" and I will go into the service menu to alter the Normal Temperature R/G/B Drive and Cutoffs to get as close to D65 as possible. I can make a CIE chart but AFAIK I don't have any way to alter color decoding (just drive/cutoff) so I'm pretty sure I'll be stuck with whatever the CIE chart shows. Does my method sound correct?

Nope - you are definitely not "off-base". Use your "Memory" setting to save the calibration settings that you finally come up with.

For your set, I would guess that the Color Temperature setting of either Warm or Normal would be best (usually Warm is the better setting, since most sets are too Cool - higher color temperature - to start with - no pun intended. Also, the Normal Picture setting is the best place to start with.

Sorry, I edited my previous post while you were probably responding to it. I made a few clarifications on what I was trying to do so if you could, please go through it one more time.

What I'm getting from you is to start with the Warm temperature because the default drive/cuts for Warm are probably closer to D65 than Cool or Normal temps which translates to less fiddling around with the drive/cuts levels?

do some research on what the specific color settings mean on your set... as an example, my Hitachi had 3 settings, but two were actually offsets from the third.... so if you made your baseline settings to one of the offset memories, a later change to the base memory would screw up your baseline!

:cool:

Good to know! I'm fairly confident that my three drive/cutoff settings for each temperature are independent of one another. Just by eyeballing it, I was able to get a nice range in R/G/B Color ramps as well as a decent range in gray scale but I was forced to turn my contrast way down. This leads to my inability to distinguish any black below 20%, however I would rather lose detail in the blacks than have crushed color in the mids-highs.

As I mentioned before, setting my brightness so that BTB bars just disappear and contrast such that WTW just disappear makes the background of the gray scale ramp bright enough that it blends in with the 30% bar rather than 0%/Digital-16. I'm curious if this is related to the contrast ratio, which is advertised as 10000:1. I would have thought this problem would manifest itself in LCD's moreso than plasmas since plasmas can have true shut-off black whereas LCD's cant (right?).

It will be interesting to see what my white point is tomorrow when I get my colorimeter in. Thanks all for the help and suggestions.

EDIT

I just looked at the Getgray Pattern Link (http://calibrate.tv/patterns/patterns.html) and if you look at the gray scale ramp picture closely, you'll see that the background actually blends into the 3rd or so bar to the right of Digital16. I was under the impression that since the background is Digital16 that it should blend in with the Digital16 bar. That appears not to be the case, I guess its back to the drawing board.

Be carefull looking at those patterns on a PC. Most PC monitors will crush blacks (especially LCD ones). Even though my laptop has a fairly decent video "card", it crushes both blacks and whites - its better than my desktop LCD monitor (which doesn't have the CR capability of the laptop's one).

Remember that the Brightness (black level) and Contrast (white level) controls interact. You have to repeat the tests until you get the whole gray scale correct (sometimes 3-5 times, or even more). In effect, I think you've done that. The more you work on the calibration, the more you learn about it and your display behavior - don't get discouraged, just keep trying until you're satisfied.

with relatively recent DVD players, burning them to a CD should work fine.... it's older players where the problems may arise.... back in the day, the player would see you had inserted a CD and dogedly assume it was a VCD and lock-up... :eek:

:cool:

Okay, I'm totally ignorant about CD-Video and/or VCD formats. The manual for my Denon DVD-1600 says that it can play Video CDs (VCD) but not CDV (CD-Video?). I don't have a DVD burner. Can I burn GetGray to a CD and get it to work in my player?

-Steve

Steve - The simple answer is yes. If the CD burning software that you have has the capablity of creating a VCD that can be played on your Denon. I have The Nero Ultra 7 package and it does have that capability. IMGBURN (a freebie) also has that capability (see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9537178&&#post9537178, earlier in this thread).

re VCD's be careful there. *Anything* that demuxes the original mpegs and puts them in a different format is *likely* to hose both the colors and grayscales. Perhaps only a little, but this is not the place where one wants to have the wrong information coming off a player. Personally I'd recommennd DVD or nothing to ensure accuracy. The ONLY time I'd say it would even be possible to use a CD is if the player accepts the data files exactly as they are (i.e. the VIDEO_TS folder and it's contents, untouched), and will still play them. Even then I'm skeptical. I definately would NOT do VCD since it involves a reencode IIRC.

I will say I'm no VCD guru, but I'd make sure the original files were untouched before I used it.

Edit: due to sorry link between brain and fingers :eek:

I downloaded GetGray yesterday and used it last night. I am strictly an amateur and I don't have any calibration instruments. But even for someone like me who can only "eyeball" the image, this disc was well worth the price.

I did have a bit of trouble burning the .iso image. I normally use Nero for my DVD burning and for some reason Nero would not recognize the .iso as a DVD. Nero insisted it was a CD iso. No big deal for me though. I just went to another computer ( as the IT admin at my company I have access to many) that had Roxio. Roxio had no problem with the .iso file.

My display is a Mitsubishi HD1000 projector and my DVD player is a Sony DVP-NS70H. I have the Avia (non-pro) disc and I have the filters.

I found GetGray to be very easy to use, easy to navigate, and with all the right test patterns. And I love that the patterns loop. Much better than Avia where I was always fumbling in the dark for the remote to pause, unpause, and rewind. The five-bar brightness and contrast adjustment patterns are perfect. Very easy to use! The color ramps made it very easy to see where colors were being clipped. On my setup I found that reds above 75% were completely crushed. The readme file is also great. I found it very helpful. Just enough information to show a novice how to use the disc without being confusing. Simply reading through it cleared up a bunch of questions I had.

Thanks Scott and everyone who helped put this disc together. Even for a novice like me its great!

Steve - The simple answer is yes. If the CD burning software that you have has the capablity of creating a VCD that can be played on your Denon. I have The Nero Ultra 7 package and it does have that capability. IMGBURN (a freebie) also has that capability (see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9537178&&#post9537178, earlier in this thread).

re VCD's be careful there. *Anything* that demuxes the original mpegs and puts them in a different format is *likely* to hose both the colors and grayscales. Perhaps only a little, but this is not the place where one wants to have the wrong information coming off a player. Personally I'd recommennd DVD or nothing to ensure accuracy. The ONLY time I'd say it woudl even be possible to use a DVD is if teh player accepts the data files exactly as they are (i.e. the VIDEO_TS folder and it's contents, untouched), and will still play them. Even then I'm skeptical. I definately would NOT do VCD since it involves a reencode IIRC.

I will say I'm no VCD guru, but I'm make sure the original files were untouched before I used it.

Thanks Claus and Scott. I think I'll wait until I have access to a DVD burner.

-Steve

Thanks Scott and everyone who helped put this disc together. Even for a novice like me its great!Thanks for the time to give the positive feedback. Very glad it worked for you.

GetGray -- Thanks, Scott, for the VCD warning. I wasn't sure about that, but had assumed that the Nero Ultra 7 behavior (at least) would treat the Video_TS files the same as it does for DVDs (usng the recode option).

slb -- That's the safest thing to do (waiting to get a DVD made, based on Scott's comments).

KillRob -- Thanks from me, too. I'm glad the "ReadMe" did it's job. That's exactly whit I intended (with Scott's editorial efforts).

I have ver.1.0 were can i get the latest ver. i think 1.1
btw i have given money to getgray thats why i have ver.1.0
Thanks

As long as you kept the login URL and password, you can get free updates, AFIK.

BTW, there is no difference between version 1.0 and version 1.1, except that 1.1 has fixed credit screen as opposed to the rolling credits in version 1.0 (so it's a little smaller and slightly quicker to download). There is no difference in the test patterns. At least that's what I'm aware of (I have both copies and can't see a difference, so I didn't burn the 1.1 version).

As long as you kept the login URL and password, you can get free updates, AFIK.

BTW, there is no difference between version 1.0 and version 1.1, except that 1.1 has fixed credit screen as opposed to the rolling credits in version 1.0 (so it's a little smaller and slightly quicker to download). There is no difference in the test patterns. At least that's what I'm aware of (I have both copies and can't see a difference, so I didn't burn the 1.1 version).

Thanks for your reply. Yes i have kepped both. But on getgray's web site there is no place to down load newest version. What is the web address were i can get any updates?

When you made your "contribution", GetGray sent you a web address and a password. You said you saved that. Just log on to the link (enter the web address into the URL bar in your browser), enter your password when the window pops up, and get the latest versions, when they become available. Do not use the www.calibrate.tv address. AFIK, only the latest version is available.

Since you already have burned version 1.0, there is no need to get version 1.1, since the test patterns haven't changed.

Thanks, got it.

In the past, I have problems using getgray to set contrast on both my flat panel LCD and RPLCD. Neither one would clip. I recently purchased an Oppo 970 DVD player and the thought occurred to me that if I turned up contrast on the Oppo, maybe I could get the TV to clip. Voila, the WTW disappeared and I was able to set contrast on the TV using the getgray contrast pattern.

My question is this. Is this the wrong way to calibrate the set. Should I set the Oppo back to factory setting for contrast and use the color shift method for setting contrast? If this is the right way of doing things, should I calibrate using the adjustments in the DVD player and not the TV?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Rosh, IMO, and generally speaking you want to send a neutral, that is, known accurate signal to the display and calibrate it to that. A signal generator is an example of a known accurate signal. Then, working your way away from the device on the video chain, calibrate each device so that it does not cause the display to get "off" the reference settings. Most of us don't have signal generators though. The next best thing is a DVD player with a good calibration DVD. A player that outputs the signal as unaltered as possible. I have a SDI output DVD with is about as clean as one can get for DVD. It is best to adjust a particular input for a particular input device and use a signal from the device that is as unaltered as possible to adjust the display. If you can't trust the quality of the signal from the device as being neutral/accurate then you can kinda take a pick as to which controls to use. Again, generally, I believe it's best to use the displays controls first, then fine tune with the device controls if necessary. The bad thing about the device adjustment is it is even more input specific. You need to ensure you don't use a from an adjusted DVD player's settings for example on some other input becasue they will be way off when the the DVD player (and its adjustments) are removed from the chain.

But for ensuring the DVD input is set correctly, a DVD calibration disc is the way to go. And I recommend doing what you can on the TV, then if necessary tweak on the player.

One of the more experienced calibrators here may have more thorough input for you.

HTH,
Scott

Rosh, IMO, and generally speaking you want to send a neutral, that is, known accurate signal to the display and calibrate it to that. A signal generator is an example of a known accurate signal. Then, working your way away from the device on the video chain, calibrate each device so that it does not cause the display to get "off" the reference settings. Most of us don't have signal generators though. The next best thing is a DVD player with a good calibration DVD. A player that outputs the signal as unaltered as possible. I have a SDI output DVD with is about as clean as one can get for DVD. It is best to adjust a particular input for a particular input device and use a signal from the device that is as unaltered as possible to adjust the display. If you can't trust the quality of the signal from the device as being neutral/accurate then you can kinda take a pick as to which controls to use. Again, generally, I believe it's best to use the displays controls first, then fine tune with the device controls if necessary. The bad thing about the device adjustment is it is even more input specific. You need to ensure you don't use a from an adjusted DVD player's settings for example on some other input becasue they will be way off when the the DVD player (and its adjustments) are removed from the chain.

But for ensuring the DVD input is set correctly, a DVD calibration disc is the way to go. And I recommend doing what you can on the TV, then if necessary tweak on the player.

One of the more experienced calibrators here may have more thorough input for you.

HTH,
Scott

Thanks for your thougthful and clear response. Except for contrast, all other DVD players are at the neutral setting. Is it acceptable to boost contrast so I could the white level patten to clip? Or should I set it to neutral and look for color shifting again?

Rosh

I'd say yes. Once you have the display close, if you want to fine tune the Oppo to clip above white it should be fine.

I'd say yes. Once you have the display close, if you want to fine tune the Oppo to clip above white it should be fine.
Thanks.

In the past, I have problems using getgray to set contrast on both my flat panel LCD and RPLCD. Neither one would clip. I recently purchased an Oppo 970 DVD player and the thought occurred to me that if I turned up contrast on the Oppo, maybe I could get the TV to clip. Voila, the WTW disappeared and I was able to set contrast on the TV using the getgray contrast pattern.

My question is this. Is this the wrong way to calibrate the set. Should I set the Oppo back to factory setting for contrast and use the color shift method for setting contrast? If this is the right way of doing things, should I calibrate using the adjustments in the DVD player and not the TV?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Hi ,
Do you possibly have your display's input set to "Native" or "Pass-through" ? I had the identical problem with my Oppo , at 720p out , and the GetGray Disk . It turns out that when I use Native on my PJ , my Contrast and Brightness controls revert to some sort of Fine Tuning . I then used the Oppo's Contrast and Brightness and the Patterns work as expected and as they did before . Weird eh ?

Scott................ :rolleyes:

In the past, I have problems using getgray to set contrast on both my flat panel LCD and RPLCD. Neither one would clip. I recently purchased an Oppo 970 DVD player and the thought occurred to me that if I turned up contrast on the Oppo, maybe I could get the TV to clip. Voila, the WTW disappeared and I was able to set contrast on the TV using the getgray contrast pattern.

My question is this. Is this the wrong way to calibrate the set. Should I set the Oppo back to factory setting for contrast and use the color shift method for setting contrast? If this is the right way of doing things, should I calibrate using the adjustments in the DVD player and not the TV?

Thanks in advance for your input.You should be aware that a lot of LCD displays will only show "clipping" when they are set way too bright (it has to do with the way they designed the electronics).

Your comments were correct. You should start with the Oppo set to the factory settings. You will not be able to get the WTW bars to "disappear". That's OK. You use the color shift method to make sure that you do not have the Contrast set too high. Later, you can go into the Oppo and set it's Contrast a little higher, if needed or desired.

This has been the characteristic of the 971, for instance, in that it's settings need to be tweaked a little to get a better contrast ratio. I'm sure the 970 is much the same. Take a look at the Oppo 970 thread(s) which may have some more information. IIRC, the Oppo 971 needed it's contrast increased to about +3 (or close to that number).

Making the WTW bars disappear will not insure that your dispalys are set correctly. With LCD displays, if you crank up the Oppo 970's Contrast control too high (to get the WTW bars to disappear), you may wind up losing a lot of detail in the bright scenes - like in clouds in a bright sky). The key thing is to make the gray scale come out right (look at the 5% Grayscale Step patterns). If there is any tinting in the bars near either end (0% and 100%, digital 16 & 235), then the Contrast control (display or the Oppo) is set too high.

For your setup, you will have to experiment. Remember, you're trying to get the best picture, and not to just blindly following the "instructions" because you can.

As Scott said, the "generator" that he used is accurate (he took great pains to make sure of that). The Oppo 970is also very close to being accurate. Your displays are not, because of dispaly design is keyed towards selling their products and not towards providing a correct, accurate, picture. This is why you (and all of us) calibrate our displays with the best tools at our disposal.

Scott_R_K -- That is an interesting observation. It also points out that each display has different default settings and they are not necessarily the correct ones. Experimentation is required to determine the best combination of settings. Factory default settings on dislpays are, more often than not, incorrect. However, you really want to calibrate the display without doing extensive adjustment in the DVD player.

i'm gonna be using a dve dvd to calibrate my sony xbr3 40"

is this a good tool?

i'm gonna be using a dve dvd to calibrate my sony xbr3 40" is this a good tool?Asking that in this thread is kinda like going to a Ford dealer and asking if a Toyota will get you to work ;). If you search the forum for "+DVE" you'll find plenty of answers. This particular thread is about a different calibration DVD :) But the answer would be similar... probably, just depends.

Asking that in this thread is kinda like going to a Ford dealer and asking if a Toyota will get you to work ;). If you search the forum for "+DVE" you'll find plenty of answers. This particular thread is about a different calibration DVD :) But the answer would be similar... probably, just depends.

ok, thanks sorry.

i was asking for real, but also trying to get my 5 posts so i coulf link some pics.

We think the GetGray Caldisc is better than AVIA, DVE, or any of the others. DVE is much harder to use than any of them. For someone new to calibration DVDs, the AVIA DVD would be a much better choice. Go to www.calibrate.tv and download the "GetGrayCalDiscReadme" zip file. Read it and see if you can understant the effort needed. There are also other threads on calibration, as GetGray pointed out. You should read those also.

PS -- You're up to 9 posts :D.

We think the GetGray Caldisc is better than AVIA, DVE, or any of the others. DVE is much harder to use than any of them. For someone new to calibration DVDs, the AVIA DVD would be a much better choice. Go to www.calibrate.tv and download the "GetGrayCalDiscReadme" zip file. Read it and see if you can understant the effort needed. There are also other threads on calibration, as GetGray pointed out. You should read those also.

PS -- You're up to 9 posts :D.

ok thanks

sorry i am running to class and dont have time to read everything but i have a few questions..... i have a hd1000u dlp projector from mitsubishi and i was wondering if this would be the right tool for me to use to calibrate it. also what is the cost and where could i get this or any other clibration tool do they sell it through this site?

If my HTPC is set up to display Rec. 709 colorspace levels, and then I use the GetGray Brightness and Contrast patterns, should I still be able to see the BTB and WTW bars? I am having a discussion in the FFDShow Walkthrough thread with Jeremy Duncan (aka 8:13) about this and I'd like clarification about this.

I just started using GetGray yesterday with ColorHCFR software. Is it normal to have measurement values bounce around in continuous measurement (real time) mode, every time a measurement is taken--about every second? Of couse, I am not changing display settings. This is happening on a direct view CRT, using DTP94 meter. The Dela E is jumping around at least 3-4, and sometimes more, on a 80% greyscale pattern. Primetimeguy reports that he does not see this using same software. I'm wondering if my DTP94 is bad? Could it be related to the DVD burn or how my dvd player handles the pattern?

I just burned my GetGrey DVD and took a quick glance and I gotta say it's brilliant. I've got the other 3 (Avia, DVE and Video Essentials) and if you're new to calibration you should probably get one of those but if you know what to do then GetGrey is by far the best choice. Compared to the others it's a dream to navigate and it has all the needed patterns - thankfully there will be no more bouncing between various calibration disks to get the job done.

One thing I noticed right off the bat (using the Color Ramps) is that both Red and Blue were clipping at the bright end on my 60" RP SXRD. It's time to dust off my Eye-One and get to know the Color HCFR software....

Hey Scott,

After using your disc along with CalMan, I can say that the process is rather simple. Not easy but simple and the two go well together. It also helps that Bill set up CalMan to work that way with GetGray. Nice work.

Anyway, my question would be is there anyway (if there are any upcoming versions of GetGray) to have maybe a 20%, 40% and 60% windows for the primary and secondary colors?

My logic is that there are quite a few devices that have color management options in their menus and the catch is that it only works for that color intensity. At least that is what is being said "around the block". If the primaries/secondaries had 20% incremental windows, we could at least somewhat run the gamut and get the colors adjusted at different intensities. It may be laborsome to do, but I think it would be worth it if we had even 20% steps in the colors.

Any thoughts?

Rob

I just started using GetGray yesterday with ColorHCFR software. <snip> Could it be related to the DVD burn or how my dvd player handles the pattern?No, this is your measuring device. Unless you have something serious wrong with the player. It's just a static pattern. It does not change. Something for the HCFR thread.

Hey Scott,

After using your disc along with CalMan, I can say that the process is rather simple. Not easy but simple and the two go well together. It also helps that Bill set up CalMan to work that way with GetGray. Nice work.

Anyway, my question would be is there anyway (if there are any upcoming versions of GetGray) to have maybe a 20%, 40% and 60% windows for the primary and secondary colors?

My logic is that there are quite a few devices that have color management options in their menus and the catch is that it only works for that color intensity. At least that is what is being said "around the block". If the primaries/secondaries had 20% incremental windows, we could at least somewhat run the gamut and get the colors adjusted at different intensities. It may be laborsome to do, but I think it would be worth it if we had even 20% steps in the colors.

Any thoughts?

RobWe had a similar discussion awhile back re the dynamic iris in the Sony's and a perceived need by some to have a set of varying APL gray patterns. When it comes to the DVD it's kinda the same thing. I depends on the device, the true need for the patterns and how usefull it would be. The MO for the DVD was to be siple, yet complete without a lot of extraneous patterns that are rarely if ever used. I'm not saying it isn't so, but I've not see a device with color management requiring a range of color intensity full screen patterns to calibrate them. I guess I'd need to see the details of what is needed and why and on what device.

Like I recommended to the DI guys, start a new thread and if it results in some concensus and appears worthwile, I'll add it to the to-do list for a ver2.

sorry i am running to class and dont have time to read everything but i have a few questions..... i have a hd1000u dlp projector from mitsubishi and i was wondering if this would be the right tool for me to use to calibrate it. also what is the cost and where could i get this or any other clibration tool do they sell it through this site?Yes it can be used to calibrate your HD1000U.

Just read this thread, the address to get the GetGray software has been posted a (large) number of times (start here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7178409&&#post7178409).

We had a similar discussion awhile back re the dynamic iris in the Sony's and a perceived need by some to have a set of varying APL gray patterns. When it comes to the DVD it's kinda the same thing. I depends on the device, the true need for the patterns and how usefull it would be. The MO for the DVD was to be siple, yet complete without a lot of extraneous patterns that are rarely if ever used. I'm not saying it isn't so, but I've not see a device with color management requiring a range of color intensity full screen patterns to calibrate them. I guess I'd need to see the details of what is needed and why and on what device.

Like I recommended to the DI guys, start a new thread and if it results in some concensus and appears worthwile, I'll add it to the to-do list for a ver2.

Scott,

The concern is not neccesarily with the DI as I can deal with that. The question arose (in other threads) that using the CCM to get your primary and secondary colors correctly on the CIE chart only represents a "snap shot" if you will of that color intensity. I.E. using your colorimeter at 100% to adjust won't do any good at 20%, 40% and so on.

The theory is that your colors will still be off at those lower % stimulus and the only way to get the whole gamut right is to adjust the P/S to CIE at several different stimulus'.

I'm sure that was clear as mud.

Rob

Just started using getgray dvd + HCFR and would like to say it's a great tool, very easy to navigate and works nicely with HCFR software. Any plans to add finer scale (5% or 10%) color patches? ;)

thanks again,

-scott

edit: oops, I see this is discussed above, I brought it up since HCFR has this measurement sequence (color saturation) which requires finer grid, just being new at this I have no idea whether it is useful or not...

GetGray - thanks for this calibration disc - purchased about a week and a half ago. Tried doing a search on this thread but no hits, and not quite up to task to read thru all the posts to see if this has been brought up.

I've noticed 3 issues so far using it:
1- on the first menu and sub menu pattern of animated pluge bars, I get small, random flashes/splotches of colors - not on constantly and no repeatable time stamp
2- sometimes the depression of the DVD player's previous menu button has no effect - I have to hit multiple times, or sometimes the Top Menu button (new DVD player - Onkyo 704 upconvert, new batteries in remote, standing less than 8 feet from the DVD player)
3- froze the DVD - on last Menu/submenu pattern (Belle Nuit I believe) I hit the Next (chapter skip) button, and couldn't do anything after that - had to power down the DVD player and then all's well again.

I burned this disc with a newer Samsung DL-DVD/CD burner, updated with latest firmware on quality Memorex DVD+ media. There's always a chance I had a bad burn, but this has been a very good burner so far. Have any of the above issues been observed before? Could I have received a corrupted downloaded image - if so what's the procedure to D/L a new one? Any suggestions appreciated.

The functional question I have is with the Saturation and Hue adjustment patterns. I'm familiar with similar calibration patterns as I've used the AVIA, DVE and THX patterns in the past. With my new Panasonic plasma I could not get either the saturation nor the hue boxes to essentially equalize in color to the point of almost not being able to see the flickering any more (not even very close). I have/use the blue filters supplied with my Colorfacts 5.0 Professional calibration system. Concerned with this I threw in the AVIA disc to the similar flashing saturation and hue adjustment pattern and was able to dial both in almost perfectly? What could cause this discrepancy?

Other than the above, my compliments to the design of your calibration software - very easy to use and navigate. Could become my favorite calibration disc pending resolution of the above items.

Thanks,
daggerNC

>>1- on the first menu and sub menu pattern of animated pluge bars, I get small, random flashes/splotches of colors - not on constantly and no repeatable time stamp
Sound like a display or video chain issue. About every 30 seconds the pluge pattern repeats, otherwise there is no color in the source. Some of the other patterns repeat much more quickly but not the pluge. The Menu's never repeat, dead static. At the binary digital level, no color is encoded. If you see color on the pluge patterns, it's not coming from the disc.
>>2 & 3 - sounds like media problems to me. Navigation is flawless on all my players and hundreds of others. It's one of the DVD's strongest points. It was authored with pro-level authoring software and full access to the DVD spec. It was not done on a prosumer application with templates, etc. There is exactly one navigation error programmed in, it is not one you described. It takes a particular, specific, unusual sequence to hit it, unlikely you did.
>>I burned this disc with a newer Samsung DL-DVD/CD burner, updated with latest firmware on quality Memorex DVD+ media. ... Any suggestions appreciated.
IMHO, and first hand experience, Memorex media is the sorriest media on the planet. When I used to make and sell DVD's for something completely unrelated, I learned that the hard way. Get DVDinfoPro(free). It will look at the DVD media header and show you who really made that media, Memorex didn't. Then do the research yourself, google is your buddy there. It's frankly, crap. Only good for target practice. To demonstrate how strongly I feel about it, once I did the research to learn it was crap, and had to eat a hundred returns, I literally threw away several canisters still shrink wrapped. My conscience wouldnt' let me even sell it on ebay lest some unsuspecting person trust their kids priceless movie to it. Go to www.rima.com and get some Taiyo Yuden discs. Never look back. Don't put anything important on the Memorex.
The functional question I have is with the Saturation and Hue adjustment patterns. I'm familiar with similar calibration patterns as I've used the AVIA, DVE and THX patterns in the past. With my new Panasonic plasma I could not get either the saturation nor the hue boxes to essentially equalize in color to the point of almost not being able to see the flickering any more (not even very close). I have/use the blue filters supplied with my Colorfacts 5.0 Professional calibration system. Concerned with this I threw in the AVIA disc to the similar flashing saturation and hue adjustment pattern and was able to dial both in almost perfectly? What could cause this discrepancy?
No idea. They are encoded with the same digital values. Well, Avia (consumer) is peppered with pixels that are off-color, and mine isn't. The patterns are as perfect as they get, much better (accurate) than Avia. Media should not cause that issue, but you are having other color related issues so I won't venture a guess as to why. Too many variables. But rest assured, it is not the material on the DVD. If Avia color/tint worked, mine will work, exactly like it.

Cheer, Scott

Hi Scott - thanks for the quick reply. I know Memorex isn't the best, but have been lucky with this batch with maybe one coaster. I pulled out my media stash and found some 8x and 16x Mitsubishi/Verbatim DVD+ blank discs - these are the #2 rated discs on cdfreaks.com behind the T-Y's (which I never see locally). I'll burn a new image today on the 8x MMC-003 discs and see what happens. Based on what you said on the saturation and hue patterns, that has me baffled too and I suspected something going on at my end due to not seeing any other posts on this!

Thanks again,
daggerNC

Newbie question alert.

In using your disc for calibration can you describe what elements of these chains can affect the end color result:

disc -> dvd-player using hdmi out -> display decoder
disc -> dvd-player using component out -> display decoder

I assume the display decoder expects REC 709 for HD input and REC 601 for SD but what about how you encode your disc vs. what the dvd-player does with the information?

thanks,

-scott

Hi Scott - thanks for the quick reply. I know Memorex isn't the best, but have been lucky with this batch with maybe one coaster. I pulled out my media stash and found some 8x and 16x Mitsubishi/Verbatim DVD+ blank discs - these are the #2 rated discs on cdfreaks.com behind the T-Y's (which I never see locally). I'll burn a new image today on the 8x MMC-003 discs and see what happens. Based on what you said on the saturation and hue patterns, that has me baffled too and I suspected something going on at my end due to not seeing any other posts on this!Welcome. Verbatims are reported OK I agree, but for TY see that link I sent for where to get them cheap. re: the +R's be aware they have more compatibility problems than -R's. Very player dependent. Recommend burn at slow speed, max 4x. Some burners better than others at different tasks. I use one brand for reading, another for writing. Anyway if that dosent' fix you, don't know what will. You'll be a first with issues described, I'm positive it is not in the material, has to be something on the end-user side, whether the burning process or your hardware combination, can't say.

I assume the display decoder expects REC 709 for HD input and REC 601 for SD but what about how you encode your disc vs. what the dvd-player does with the information?Material on DVD is encoded with rec601/SD RGB->YCbCr transform formulas. Grayscale is the same in HD and SD, there is no color info in the patterns that are black/gray/white so they won't matter. HD and SD transforms produce the same values for grays. YCbCr values for colors will be different using th e2 different transform equations. Colors from this DVD are encoded SD and should be treated as SD.

Whether or not your hardware is doing someting else is not something I'd know. It depends. Some devices will incorrectly assume upscaled input is HD when it shouldn't . You could start a new thread on the specific hardware if you think it is doing otherwise or have specific device setup questions. Out of scope here.

Cheers, Scott

Whether or not your hardware is doing someting else is not something I'd know. It depends. Some devices will incorrectly assume upscaled input is HD when it shouldn't .

I don't believe a display has any way of knowing if a 720 or 1080 signal originates from an SD or HD player. User selectable color standards on the display would be nice, but not all have them.

Oppo has said that their players use 601 for 480 and 709 for the upscaled resolutions. They've just added RGB colorspace to the 981 for people who were have colorspace problems.

-Bill

GetGray,

Thanks for the disc. Just got it and it works great. One question. I read in this thread that with plasmas and LCDs the above white bars don't always disappear, or sometimes do, but at too high of a level. The instructions say that an alternate approach is to lower the contrast until the -1% bar disappears and then raise slightly back up. So, what if the 0% bar disappears at say contrast 45 and the -1% bar disappears at a contrast of say 35. That gives a contrast range of 10 that would be technically correct as far as the test is concerned. What do people typically do to decide where in that range to set the contrast if you aren't seeing any color-shifting? Just pick as high as you can, or the average, or what?

Thanks again.

Ernie

I don't believe a display has any way of knowing if a 720 or 1080 signal originates from an SD or HD player. User selectable color standards on the display would be nice, but not all have them.

Oppo has said that their players use 601 for 480 and 709 for the upscaled resolutions. They've just added RGB colorspace to the 981 for people who were have colorspace problems.

-Bill

I believe this is the problem I'm currently having with my upscaled dvd player (philips) as I've seen from other posts that if the player doesn't do the 601->709 transform on it's 720p/1080i output the color gets shifted primarily in the position of green in the color gamut. I can try the cal with the player in SD mode to confirm. Does anyone know of any test patterns authored in REC709?


-scott

GetGray,

Thanks for the disc. Just got it and it works great. One question. I read in this thread that with plasmas and LCDs the above white bars don't always disappear, or sometimes do, but at too high of a level. The instructions say that an alternate approach is to lower the contrast until the -1% bar disappears and then raise slightly back up. So, what if the 0% bar disappears at say contrast 45 and the -1% bar disappears at a contrast of say 35. That gives a contrast range of 10 that would be technically correct as far as the test is concerned. What do people typically do to decide where in that range to set the contrast if you aren't seeing any color-shifting? Just pick as high as you can, or the average, or what?

Thanks again.

Ernie

The instructions you're quoting above tell you what to do if the above white bars NEVER appear. From what you said, it sounds like your above white bars are always present. That's just like my LCD RPTV. Even at 100% contrast I still see both above white bars plainly. From what I've seen previously in this forum, I'd want to use 100% contrast as long as that doesn't cause color distortion.

My question is that my service menu has an additional brightness control that's currrently set at 80. I'm debating the side effects of increasing that value in an attempt to get the above white to disappear.

The instructions you're quoting above tell you what to do if the above white bars NEVER appear. From what you said, it sounds like your above white bars are always present. That's just like my LCD RPTV. Even at 100% contrast I still see both above white bars plainly. From what I've seen previously in this forum, I'd want to use 100% contrast as long as that doesn't cause color distortion.

My question is that my service menu has an additional brightness control that's currrently set at 80. I'm debating the side effects of increasing that value in an attempt to get the above white to disappear.

And then tune down until it's comfortable to view. :-) Seriously, I originally left it at the highest contrast where things weren't distorted and everything was visible, but then when I watched dark scenes with bright lights, it was actually hard on the eyes. That's why I was wondering if there was any other basis for measurement that would give you maximum contrast with comfortable viewing. But I guess at that point it's subjective to whatever looks good to you. I mean, even if your TV supported it, you wouldn't want to go to the point where looking at the sun on your TV makes you go blind....

daggerNC -- It looks like you didn't catch Scott's other statement. Use DVD-R discs. The +R ones can have errors in some DVD players, depending on how they are burned. It could also be a possible problem with your Samsung DL-DVD/CD burner (I'm assuming you burned from the ISO file?) or how you fed the downloaded file to it, from Scott's software download link. AFIK, those of us that burned the DVD on a PC don't have those kinds of problems (except for some Oppo owners - a different problem).
---------------
GetGray,

Thanks for the disc. Just got it and it works great. One question. I read in this thread that with plasmas and LCDs the above white bars don't always disappear, or sometimes do, but at too high of a level. The instructions say that an alternate approach is to lower the contrast until the -1% bar disappears and then raise slightly back up. So, what if the 0% bar disappears at say contrast 45 and the -1% bar disappears at a contrast of say 35. That gives a contrast range of 10 that would be technically correct as far as the test is concerned. What do people typically do to decide where in that range to set the contrast if you aren't seeing any color-shifting? Just pick as high as you can, or the average, or what?

Thanks again.

ErnieWe were talking about the WTW bars (+2% and +5%). You should never adjust so that the negative bars (-1% and -2%) disapear (the 0% bar never appears since it is the same intensity as the background). If you can't get the WTW bars to disappear, then set the Contrast Control back to it's centered position. You do not want to set the Contrast all that high. especially with LCDs and Plasma flat panel displays, since that shortens their usefull life. You want the image to be just bright enough so that whites appear to be white and not a very light gray. This should be possible with the Contrast control right around the centered (midscale) point.

That's the other point (your last post), very bright whites lead to eyestrain as well as being harder on your display.

And then tune down until it's comfortable to view. :-) Seriously, I originally left it at the highest contrast where things weren't distorted and everything was visible, but then when I watched dark scenes with bright lights, it was actually hard on the eyes. That's why I was wondering if there was any other basis for measurement that would give you maximum contrast with comfortable viewing. But I guess at that point it's subjective to whatever looks good to you. I mean, even if your TV supported it, you wouldn't want to go to the point where looking at the sun on your TV makes you go blind....

I guess you're lucky. "Too bright" isn't in my RPTV's vocabulary. I've got a Hitachi director's series, and with the "anti-glare" screen it's not all that bright. I am curious, though, about the statement that having the contrast set too high would shorten the life of the LCD. Is that true, or even possible? Isn't black the color that's difficult for the LCD to make? The bulb doesn't get brighter, after all, so it shouldn't shorten the life of the lamp....

I guess you're lucky. "Too bright" isn't in my RPTV's vocabulary. I've got a Hitachi director's series, and with the "anti-glare" screen it's not all that bright. I am curious, though, about the statement that having the contrast set too high would shorten the life of the LCD. Is that true, or even possible? Isn't black the color that's difficult for the LCD to make? The bulb doesn't get brighter, after all, so it shouldn't shorten the life of the lamp....

For plasmas it shortens the life because the phosphors will age faster. For LCDs with dynamic irises does the bulb get dimmer and brighter or is there literally an iris that closes over it to let less light through? Not sure. LCDs definitely are the brightest display technology out there right now, though, so if my plasma is getting "too bright" I'm sure an LCD would be even worse.

Regarding making the -1% disappear, I'll have to re-read the instructions again, but I thought it gave two approaches. If you can't get WTW to disappear the alternate approach was to go in the other direction -- dim the contrast until the -1% disappeared and then raise it back up. But I probably mis-read.

No, that's what it said (and I wrote it - with Scott's editing). I must have mis-read (or mis-interpreted) what you said. For setting the Contrast too high, I was refering to LCD flat panel displays, which operate differently than LCD PJs. With LCD panel displays, increasing the Contrast will increase the backlight output, reducing its life. That problem doesn't exist with PJs or LCD/DLP RPTV's, which run the lamp in a fixed mode (low power or high power - "the names may be changed to protect the innocent"). They use IRISes to increase the apparent CR (contrast ratio).

Claus and Scott - thanks again for the inputs. I see the suggestion on trying -R for better compatibility - next time I get a chance to pick some good ones up, or maybe do the T-Y internet route, will do.

Disc compatibility may also be part of this issue. I reburned the downloaded 1.1 iso image to the new Verbatim +R disc (using Nero 6.6 Ultra) and ran it thru a number of the chapters. Some good news is I didn't see any of those color splotches this time. Not so good news is I still have menu navigation problems even standing only 4' from the new DVD player (thru premium monoprice 1M HDMI cable into new Onkyo 604 receiver out to Panny plasma). Many times I'll hit the Menu button and the DVD accepts/recognizes the key stroke and displays the event "Menu" on the display, but nothing happens - sometimes have to hit multiple times, or sometimes have to use the "Top Menu" button to go back to the main DVD menu! Same with using the chapter advance button - the DVD sees it (displays "Next" on my screen), but sometimes nothing happens. I don't see any posts on Onkyo's don't work with this disc - guess I'll try -R's next :(

You're welcome. But FWIW, the symptoms you describe sound like media incompatibility issues, or buring problems. What's probably happening is the player is seeking and not finding. It keeps trying thus the hangs or miscues. There's a lot of moving around to do on that dvd and if the player can't find what it's looking for I would expect it to be problematic. But that's just a guess. It is rare anyone has any trouble burning the iso, and for those few that did, a replacement with TY media, burning at <=4x, and using imgburn software cured their issues.

I agree Scott. The Imgburn software is "Donation-ware" (http://www.imgburn.com/).

daggerNC -- I've used both Nero Ultra 6 (last version) and Ultra 7 (latest version) to burn cheap DVD-R discs (GC brand from my local Fry's Electronics) from Scott's Video_TS files (not the ISO). I used Nero's "Recode" function to do it (at 2x speed) and have never had a problem on any of the DVD players that I have used.

I recently downloaded GetGray and it is excellent. Great job!

I have a Panasonic 50PHD8UK plasma. I have found that the only way (from the user menu) I could adjust the WTW bars was by changing the "Input Level" control. The manual mentions something about using this to adjust overly bright whites. Of Course, I would then go back and adjust BTB.

Is this an effective method to adjust WTW, or does it have any negative effects on Gamma, etc?

thanks,
John

Hi,

First of all I'd like to thank you for the this great job.

I have a suggestion. There is a set of patterns that I find very useful and I wish GetGray included them too. I'm talking about the windowed/fullscreen 0, 25, 75 and 100% saturation patterns for RGB and also CMY. When one is adjusting the color management settings together with a colorimeter, these patterns help a lot to select the right setting for each of the primaries and secondaries. The free DVD of the French group who have developed the HCFR program includes these patterns. Using that DVD and my Eye-One sensor, I found that the saturation of CMY were over saturated and as a results, the distance between 0,25,75 and 100% levels were not linear. Moreover, at 75% saturation level they were close to their targets while at 100% they were badly off. With current version of GetGray, I think there is no pattern to fix such problems.

I don't see how the patterns would fix that problem. I mean you would only have one setting for your pri/sec colors for those that have one at all. You can't adjust a "red-scale". Are you wanting to find the place where the colors are most accurate? I would think that would be irrelevant since the display is going to do all levels in use. I mean if you set it to be perfect at 50%, and it is not linear, then it is still going to be off at 75%. I'd say set it correctly at 75% and be done with it. If it's not linear, then it is going to be wrong somewhere. I don't see the real need, but I'm trying to.

Scott,

I think the gentleman above is trying to relay the same type of thing that I was earlier. I will use my PJ as an example. The Panny900

When using the CCM in the menu to adjust a color (using red as the example) you move a cursor to any given color and then adjust the brightness, tint and saturation. Then you save that setting in the user menus. The screen will show the adjusted color and the original color in 2 smaller boxes so that you can see what you are really doing to your Primaries and Secondaries. The kicker is most are using the 75% P/S color fields to get their colors on target with the CIE chart.

Remember that the PJ has stored those correct values for 75% only. The Panny uses a "snapshot" of that color, whatever it is, and adjusts to whats on the screen only. Whether thats good or bad, I don't know. Now going to 100% and remeasuring, they will be way off again and you(I) will have to store 6 more values for the P/S at 100%

The Panny has a great color managment function unlike other PJs in it's price range. I think the final point trying to be made is if there were lower stimulus color fields (20%, 40%, and so on) that one could get their Primaries and Secondaries to track more linearly(is that a word). So in essence, I would have up to 30 stored P/S corrected colors. Now that I'm familiar with GetGray and CalMan, I know I could run through these rather quickly.

Has anyone tried the GetGray disc on the xbox360 HD-DVD add on drive? I just did and noticed some strange things.

My setup is Oppo971H connected to an Onkyo SR804 (dvi to hdmi) and an xbox360 connected to the Onkyo via component. The Onkyo is ouputting via HDMI to my Mitsubishi HC3000. I had previously performed just the brightness and contrast settings using the GetGray disc on my Oppo (outputting 1080i). I had everything dialed in pretty well. Brilliant color is off, Iris is closed, with brightness at 0 and contrast at -1.

I decided to try the GetGray disc in the add on drive today to see if it would be any different. I have my xbox360 outputting 1080i (however it's 480p on SD DVD's since I'm using the component cable). I plop the disc in and go to the Brightness adjustment pattern. I start reducing the brightness on the projector to an alarmingly low setting (can't remember off the top of my head). I finally got the -4 and -1% bars to just disappear and then upped the brightness one notch. Next I went to the Contrast adjustment pattern. This is what I found strange. No matter what I did with the contrast setting I couldn't make the bars appear! I went all the way down and all the way up. The numbers would disappear, but the bars remained invisable. I went back to the brightness and turned it back up to 0 and then adjusted the contrast up and down it's range. Still no bars were visible at all.

So before I messed something up I put the disc back in the Oppo and sure enough with just 1 notch in either direction on contrast I could make the bars disappear and reappear. I'm not sure what is happening, but I don't think calibrating the add on drive is possible with the GetGray disc.

In my humble opinion, you are looking at the last statement the wrong way. What is coming off the GetGray DVD are perfectly correct "reference" digital bytes of information. They are in the YCbCr format, same as all DVD's. The Getgray DVD isn't magic about what's on it. If you play a commercial (e.g. movie) DVD, that puts out say RGB level 230 white in some part of the scene, then the commercial DVD is going to cause the exact same color (or lack or) to display exactly what the calibration DVD displayed via your setup.

In other words, if you are seeing extreme clipping when playing the contrast pattern on the GetGray DVD, then you are going to get the identical clipping when you play a commercial DVD. You may not notice it, but it *will* be there all else equal. The player is reading a digital YCbCr value, converting it to some level, and it gets treated along the chain. The player does not kow if the YCbCr value is from a calibration DVD or a movie DVD.

If something in the chain causes the test pattern to be hosed, then your "real" video is hosed, too. That's the point of using a reference material disc. To adjust the device(s) so reference material is being presented correctly. If it can't be presented correctly, there is a problem in the chain. If you can get the numbers to clip, I'd say there is a big problem. Sounds like something is clipping severly.

HI Get Gray,
I would like to get your disc to calibrate my Mits 57831 and what ever DVD player I get. Is it going to be difficult to do? I also saw in a post the umr has some software that helps calibrate the tv, can you tell me more?
Tennispro

HI Get Gray,
I would like to get your disc to calibrate my Mits 57831 and what ever DVD player I get. Is it going to be difficult to do? I also saw in a post the umr has some software that helps calibrate the tv, can you tell me more?As for difficulty, I can't say. I strongly recommend you go download and read the documentation file for the disc at www.calibrate.tv first.

As for calibration packages they are not "software" per se. umr's can be seen at www.accucal.com. But for a beginner I'd recommend looking at www.calman.tv. All of these and others are listed with more information in the appendix of the document referenced above.

Hi GetGray,

It says your software isn't meant for crt's, so which test disc would you recommend?

Assuming you don't want to spend the big bucks for Avia Pro or DVE Pro, it is hard to say. Both Avia and DVE have pros and cons. They both have CRT contract (blooming) patterns so choose your evil :-). Considerations I'd make if I had to choose are Avia - easy to navigate, animated patterns, no BTB. DVE - has BTB

I have AVIA and DVE(not the pro versions) but I always here bad things about the gray scales, at least on the AVIA, not sure about the DVE now and that the most important one for calibrating my crt frt pj right.

So why don't you have a disc for crt?

So why don't you have a disc for crt?Just becasue I wanted to focus on digitals and minimize the pattern set to the essentials.

Hi Getgray,

So what exactly is the difference between the test levels for the digitals compared to what is needed for a crt frt pj?

Walter: I dont' want to get off on a off-topic CRT tangent since the disc isn't about CRT's, but in a nutshell, to calibrate a CRT you need several patterns that are not on my disc. Mainly, a contrast pattern that shows "blooming", and a set of alignment patterns to adjust convergence. If you have Avia and DVE, then you have them. It has nothing to do with "test levels". My DVD is perfectly applicable to a CRT witht he exception of the contrast pattern. All the gray windows, color windows, etc. are perfectly suitable for either CRT or digital.

Walter: I dont' want to get off on a off-topic CRT tangent since the disc isn't about CRT's, but in a nutshell, to calibrate a CRT you need several patterns that are not on my disc. Mainly, a contrast pattern that shows "blooming", and a set of alignment patterns to adjust convergence. If you have Avia and DVE, then you have them. It has nothing to do with "test levels". My DVD is perfectly applicable to a CRT witht he exception of the contrast pattern. All the gray windows, color windows, etc. are perfectly suitable for either CRT or digital.

Is it possible to add half transparent patterns?

DVDO has that on their calibration disc and it's very usefull when adjusting the white and black level against some broadcast test patterns and even the color bars adjusting the saturation.

Put the DVD on the harddrive of the STB and the bring up the transparent patterns to adjust to correct levels to the broadcast patterns.

Hi GetGray,

Okay that's what I kinda figured that the levels would be the same and all I'm really interested in are untainted gray scales from 0 to 100 ire. So that being said I guess yours would work just fine for me too.

Thanks

Is it possible to add half transparent patterns?

DVDO has that on their calibration disc and it's very usefull when adjusting the white and black level against some broadcast test patterns and even the color bars adjusting the saturation.

Put the DVD on the harddrive of the STB and the bring up the transparent patterns to adjust to correct levels to the broadcast patterns.
No, DVD dosen't do "layers", well except for subpicture data in menus. There is no way to generate a transparency in video content. The image is made up of digital values for each pixel. No idea what DVDO is doing.

Likvid -- Doing a video transparency is a video processing function and not something that can be put on a DVD (DVDO sells Video Processors). What the processor does is to replace the background color (like the video black on the GetGray Caldisc) with another image layer, and to set the DVD image to be a transparent layer - much like Adobe Photoshop can do with PC images. This is also similar to, but not the same as, what the film people (and TV news/weather broadcasters do) with their use of "Blue Screen" masking for a video overlay.

Will the THX glasses be appropriate for the blue filter that is recommended?

Just wondering, since they are the cheapest available.

Will the THX glasses be appropriate for the blue filter that is recommended?

Just wondering, since they are the cheapest available.Yes, they are just right for the job. My preference.

I downloaded my copy of GetGray last Friday and burned it to a DVD-R using ImgBurn; ImgBurn is very easy to use and I had no problems with the disk. I spent an hour navigating through GetGray and experimenting with black and white level adjustment on our plasma. I also own both Avia and DVE, and GetGray is by far the easiest to use; it is logically organized, easy to navigate and has all of the necessary test patterns for digital display calibration. Most important to me is that it has a complete set of both color and gray window patterns, which Avia and DVE lack. Window patterns are particularly useful for plasma displays because plasmas have circuitry that limits the APL, making calibration difficult when using full field patterns.

Much thanks to Scott, Claus and all of the other contributors for a great tool, keep up the good work.

-Steve

OK....

last question..

Can I download it at work, copy it to a USB drive and burn it at home? I have a horribly slow connection at home.

OK....

last question..

Can I download it at work, copy it to a USB drive and burn it at home? I have a horribly slow connection at home.

Shouldn't be a problem as long as your employer doesn't mind. It's a single compressed file of about 26MB (almost 400MB unzipped).

Shouldn't be a problem as long as your employer doesn't mind. It's a single compressed file of about 26MB (almost 400MB unzipped).

haha!!

I am my employer...
I'll get over it..