Okay got the Spyder, now what? I ran the Spyder with he wizard and things are okay, but I'm not convinced they look better than GG. Any suggestions on using the both of them together?

The next step would be to calibrate grey scale using software such as HCFR or CalMan if your display has RGB cuts/gains control. And yes, picture=contrast. Further display/probe/software questions should be directed to a new thread.

wish,

The problem isn't really a resolution one, it's a colour space, or more correctly a colour space conversion problem.

GetGray is authored using the SD-DVD colourspace, aka Rec 601.

HD material is authored using the HD colourspace, aka Rec 709.

Depending on your player it may or may not do the correct colourspace transformations. Specifically, if your set it calibrated using a 601 source/signal and you feed it a 709 signal then the colours will be off a bit. The same is true in reverse.

Ultimately if you are using GetGray to calibrate your TV for use with an SD-DVD player, you will be fine. Whether those settings are usable for HD source from cable/satellite/HD-player is somewhat of a crapshoot.

Hope that helped.
jvincent,

Thanks for the response. The player is a HD player (Toshiba HD-A2 with 1080i output). The vast majority of viewing would be with SD discs since I'm just now getting into HD DVD (one HD DVD to date).

Still not sure what I'm going to do but your response gives me more info than I had before. Thanks.

You're welcome.

Since initially you are using the A2 for SD discs you will be fine with GetGray for that.

The next step would be to calibrate grey scale using software such as HCFR or CalMan if your display has RGB cuts/gains control

Depending on which version of SpyderTV you have, you may be able to just check the boxes for Grayscale Cuts and Gains at the beginning of the Wizard, and SpyderTV will perform those steps for you as well...all with the same ease of use as the rest of the Wizard (telling you exactly what to do at each step).

Unless I'm misunderstanding GetGray is not HD.

As you found out, color standard is the issue. I found that GetGray color patterns worked fine with a Sony BP-300 and a Toshiba XA2 player. They transformed the REC 601 to REC 709, with no apparent problems. I checked by using HCFR software's CIE chart before I started calibrating. REC601 moved the primaries farther away from the projector's standard settings, and color looks nearly perfect after calibrating to REC709.

This color space subject has been discussed has come up before (and was discussed earlier in this thread). I was also under the same impression as jvincent - which is incorrect.

It was pointed out by several of the AVS calibration experts. Since all HD displays are expecting the Rec. 709 color-space on HD (720p or 1080i/p) video, all players (up-converting SD and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray) are supposed to make the conversion from Rec. 601 to Rec. 709 when the DVD material is output as 720p or 1080i, etc. (they may not in 100% of the players, especially the older ones). Therefore, there should be no problems using the GetGray disc to calibrate your display. The only thing you are giving up is the higher resolution of the test patterns.

Damn I hate these colourspace twist threads, I always get confused.

Claus, are you saying that if you use GetGray over an upconverted interface, i.e. 720P or 1080i/p that you should have your sensor that you are using for calibration setup for Rec 709?

This assumes of course you are using a piece of "consumer electronics". I'm using an HTPC, so I'm not sure that it will necessarily twist the colourspaces.

Hi Guys.

Just wanted to thank Scott and everyone else involved in this project. I own just about any test disc imaginable at this point, and have been using a combination of these during calibrations. For some reason, I never really looked into what the Getgray disc had to offer, since I basically thought it was just another disc with patterns that I already have. Well, basically it is just another disc, and I do have all the patterns (or equivalent) on other discs, but as a lot of you already know, it's just a lot faster and easier to use, and getting rid of the hassle of having to change discs during a calibration, is a big relief. All I can say is I'm angry at myself for not getting this disc sooner. Compared to how little use most of my discs worth a total of hundreds of dollars, this disc is amazing if all you want to do is calibrate.

Highly recommended.

Otto J -- Thank you. That's why I jumped on the bandwagon in the Beta stage, and volunteered to write the "ReadMe" instructions.

jvincent -- You're right about that, I do use a CE player. My "sensor" is my eyeballs (at least for right now). It's hard to say what the HTPC will do - it's a function of your DVD drive and video card software & drivers.

Wanted to post my experience with the GetGray DVD files and burning to a DVD to calibrate the XBOX360 HD-DVD add on (480p).

- burning the files to a DVD+R would not play beyond the start menu. Two discs tried. They played on the HTPC, though. XBOX360 would "crash" to an XBOX logo.

- Burning to a DVD-R disc worked without problems. So, lesson learned for me that XBOX360 prefers a DVD-R format.

My calibration using Spyder2 and HCFR went without a hitch to a perfect grayscale 10-100, and a perfect CIE to 709 standards.

Thanks! Couldn't have done it as easily as it is without your fine DVD!

Can't wait for the "HD" version.

Your DVD is recommended in my Samsung HL series "Calibration Guide for Dummies and Cheapskates", noted in my Tech Links thread.

Cheers!
Doc

As a contrast to my above "GetGray Fanboy Post", I wanted to admit that I just purchased the HiDef version of DVE which arrived yesterday in the mail...all I can say is "YUK", and "What a mess!" and "I want my money back!"

There is so much crap on this DVD, and yet, so little that an intermediate calibrator can use. And no included documentation on what the HD titles are and in what order to find them. Typical DVE "lost in the menu" bullcrap.

There is about a zillion geometry and resolution screens on there, but no 10-step IRE windows, no full-screen or windowed 75% or 100% primary/secondary colors, no dedicated BTB or WTW screens... if you like needle/pluge/oscilliscope garbage then it is for you. It was really a waste of $25 from buy.com. :mad:

It has some decent sound checks, but they automatically maneuver to the next chapter, instead of repeating. So, the revolving pink noise is all of a sudden followed by a 30hz "room rattle" signal through the subwoofer... very lame.


Anyway...I'll keep my fingers crossed for a HD version of GetGray, perhaps? ;)

Wishlist: Do a quick setup format in the following order:
BTB with -2%, -1%, 0%, +1%, +2% to set brightness
WTW with 98%, 99%, 100%, 101%, 102% to set contrast
Flashing blue "color" and "tint" screen for adjusting blue color level grossly.
0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100% (IRE) to set greyscale
RED, GREEN, BLUE, YELLOW, CYAN, MAGENTA to CIE calibrate colors (this sequence matches HCFR acquisition sequence).

Rinse, lather, repeat! Done!

GetGray is the ultimate example of "Simpler is Better. Simpler is faster. Simpler is a better value".

Cheers,
Doc
:cool:

Thanks Doc.

After CEDIA, depending on some CineSlide things, I may finally look into a HD version a little harder. But, it will likely be Blu-Ray to start with. Both HD's are a different animal logistically though. Neither will be suitable for download, well not from a "normal" server anyway. But bandwidth aside, the main obstacle is HD burners aren't prevalent like DVD burners are. So, most couldn't make one if they could download it. There are some tricks to making a SD DVD read as HD but without the pro-level authoring tools, one can't really do what I did with the GetGray DVD, simplicity-wise. Even most of the DVD replication houses aren't setup for either format yet, so selling hard copies will be problematic as well. Obviously someone does it, but it may not be economical unless multiple thousands are made at once.

But alas, the SD version is still perfectly fine for all gray patterns on HD players (no SD/HD differences in grays). Colorspace is still a crapshoot for HD players playing SD DVD's, I think.

As a contrast to my above "GetGray Fanboy Post", I wanted to admit that I just purchased the HiDef version of DVE which arrived yesterday in the mail...all I can say is "YUK", and "What a mess!" and "I want my money back!"

As mentioned in another thread, check out the 720p section...

Thanks Doc.
Neither will be suitable for download, well not from a "normal" server anyway.

Best bet may be to set up a torrent with a private tracker, then you're just trusting people's honesty to not have it reseeded, but then I guess you're doing that distributing ISO's anyhow.

As mentioned in another thread, check out the 720p section...

I guess my XBOX360 HD-DVD will output the 720p calibration screens in 1080?

I'll check it out the 720p screens, but of course this boils down to poor documentation in the HD-DVE if the stuff I needed is in the 720p section and not also included in the 1080 section... that is so much Crrrrap! (Scottish rolled R's for effect).

:confused:

Doc

Thanks Doc.



But alas, the SD version is still perfectly fine for all gray patterns on HD players (no SD/HD differences in grays). Colorspace is still a crapshoot for HD players playing SD DVD's, I think.

My problem is my HD-DVD player won't output a 1080 signal over component for a SD disc... so I'm unable to calibrate the 1080 channel, specifically. If I hooked it up via VGA it will output 1080, but my HTPC takes up the VGA connector on the Samsung DLP. This may call for an XBOX elite upgrade to get the HDMI connector going... and dump the old XBOX on eBay.

Yes, the HD version of GG sounds complicated... but think about a dual-layer product with BR on one side, and HD-DVD on the other. I think you could have something that could be commercially viable, and as popular as the other "less convenient" two discs out there now...

Good luck,
Doc
:cool:

I have an issue with a Sharp LC-37D43U. I can not imagine that it would have anything to do with GetGray, but I have not seen any such issue with any LCD panel my motto is if in doubt ask. Please note the Ghosting around the edges of the boxes. Could this be an issue with burning the GG image on the DVD disk...?

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/kroed/images/detail/#224/dsc1365august222007yn6.jpg

Sorry...please try this link

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/kroed/

Those are mpeg compression artifacts. Happen around hard color edges like in test pattersn. No way around them. Exist on GG and Pro DVD's.

Has anyone had problems getting the contrast calibrated? In a dark room with VERY little light I can get it set correctly at 96. With even the slighted light introduced into the room I have to take it to 100 and even then can still see +2% & +5% white bars.

wish,

Depending on the type of set you have it may not be possible/correct to get the +2% and +5% bars to disappear.

Hello all,

I ordered the GetGray calibration disc yesterday and used it last night to calibrate my Optoma HD80 via the PS3 over HDMI. It worked great, these patterns are far superior to what I have used from DVE and others. With the animated patterns that are included and the excellent written guide, it really makes calibrating your display seem easier. I only used the brightness, contrast, color, and sharpness pattern since I don't have any of the fancy equipment needed for the rest. :o

I do have one question though about the brightness setup and I hope I interpreted this right. This is from the written guide:

If the device will not display the below black bars, an alternate procedure is to
adjust the brightness control brighter until the +1% bar just disappears, then lower the brightness
until the 1% bar reappears.

I assumed this was a typo and it meant to say you wanted to lower the brightness until the +1% bar dissapears and then raise until it reappears. Am I wrong in thinking that?

Thanks to all those who were involved in creating GetGray, count me in for the double dip if you ever decide to do a Bluray release. :)

-Joey

Joey, it is correct as written. Brightness adjusts the Black Level.

You have to "lower" the brightness control to get it darker (so the +1% bar reappears). As you "raise" the Brightness control, you get a higher "minimum" black level (which makes the +1% bar disappear).

My problem is my HD-DVD player won't output a 1080 signal over component for a SD disc... so I'm unable to calibrate the 1080 channel, specifically. If I hooked it up via VGA it will output 1080, but my HTPC takes up the VGA connector on the Samsung DLP. This may call for an XBOX elite upgrade to get the HDMI connector going... and dump the old XBOX on eBay.

Yes, the HD version of GG sounds complicated... but think about a dual-layer product with BR on one side, and HD-DVD on the other. I think you could have something that could be commercially viable, and as popular as the other "less convenient" two discs out there now...

Good luck,
Doc
:cool:

My HD-XA1 will upconvert a non-copy-protected SD DVD (such as the GetGray disc you burn yourself) to 1080i over component. Yours may do the same.:)

I'm just getting to this thread, so sorry if this is a dumb question. But is this Calibration disk intended for the consumer or professioinals who calibrate using instruments? I'm getting a new Elite 110FD and was thinking about getting this disk. I am an Engineer and can follow directions pretty good, but again not sure if this disk is used with instruments or not. Thanks for the help.

Allen: Check out the manual available on the website:
http://www.calibrate.tv/docs/GetGrayCalDiscReadme.zip

It may answer your question some more. The DVD is designed to have the bare bones patterns a calibrator with an instrument needs to do a grayscale and color calibration. And the patterns are dead on perfect as possible with mpeg (DVD), professional quality.

However, it also includes the patterns needed to do the fundamental 4 adjustments. Those do not require a meter. They are brightness, contrast, color and tint. What it does not have is a spify video lead in explaining how to use those 4 patterns. Only what's in the manual. They are fairly easy to use however, particularly for a technical person such as yourself. You do need a "blue filter" for color and tint. This is a piece of special blue film you look through while making adjustments. See the manual for sources, or search this forum.

The only one of teh fundamental 4 adjustments that often causes confusion is the contrast pattern. Claus and I really need to update that manual section for that one day. That pattern has moving bars that show whiter than white, which you wnat to adjust out, or almost out. Many displays won't allow it, and it is display dependent. For those you have to eyeball some and get the contrast high but without seeing teh rest of the colors shift. You can do this with a gray ramp pattern, also included.

HTH, Scott

I'm confused..where do I download this?

I'm confused..where do I download this?

You need to go to for all the info on how to contribute, and how to D/L the files to make a disc. http://www.calibrate.tv/

GetGray,

I have ordered the GetGray calibration DVD, downloaded the files and burned the DVD. Everything was fine. You´ve done a fine job.

My setup has an Oppo DV-980H upscaling DVD player connected in 720p through HDMI to a Samsung 40" LCD display (model LN40R71BX, sold here in Brazil, I have no idea of equivalent there in US). For your information, all DVD discs here in Brazil are NTSC, though broadcast signals are PAL. So, all the test were made in NTSC.

Using the DVD, I could see that my display has little overscan and some minor Y/C delay, but as there is no way to adjust this, I will have to live with it. I have also found problems in adjusting contrast. Even increasing the setting of my display to maximum (100), I couldn´t make the above white bars disappear. This was only achieved by increasing the DVD setting to +8 at the same time. The problem is that, according to Oppo, this should be avoided and I could really notice several image artifacts with this configuration.

Could you help me with the correct contrast (white level) setting?:confused:

Alvaro Maia

I have also found problems in adjusting contrast. Even increasing the setting of my display to maximum (100), I couldn´t make the above white bars disappear.

Here is an exerpt from the zip file documentation regarding whiter than white:

Usage of the contrast pattern is similar to the brightness pattern. Using the Contrast control of the display, adjust up or down until the above white bars (+2%, +5%) just disappear into the background this is the correct setting (some calibrators prefer 1 notch toward showing above white). If the device will not display the above white bars, an alternate procedure is to lower the contrast until the -1% bar just disappears, then raise the contrast until the -1% bar is visible. When adjusting contrast you also want to watch for color shifts. Some bulb-based devices will "run out" of a primary color used in producing white causing a color shift in white if the contrast is too high. Normally this is undesirable.

FAQ: My display wont' show (or won't hide) WTW bars.

Here's some answers from this thread. Search "contrast" for more:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7828303#post7828303

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7421370#post7421370

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8870716#post8870716

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8697818#post8697818

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8231128#post8231128

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9724053#post9724053

Any timeframe on when a disc might be available for purchase? I am a Luddite in the sense I don't have DVD burning capability. :-(

Thanks,

I have a quick question about the getgray disc. I understand that I should probably not use it to 'adjust' the user menu on a CRT rear projection tv based on this from the documentation: This DVD is intended for fixed pixel displays and does not contain some of the necessary test patterns or CRT based displays.. But if I did all of the adjustments with DVE or other, I could still use it to evaluate the CRT display, right? Getgray is so much easier with the patterns to evaluate gray scale and primary and secondary colors.

The only pattern I know of that it lacks that you would need for a CRT is a ramp for showing blooming. This is necessary to know when a CRT's Contrast setting is too high. Otherwise, the rest of the patterns are fine. If I've left something out, someone chime in.
I have a quick question about the getgray disc. I understand that I should probably not use it to 'adjust' the user menu on a CRT rear projection tv based on this from the documentation: . But if I did all of the adjustments with DVE or other, I could still use it to evaluate the CRT display, right? Getgray is so much easier with the patterns to evaluate gray scale and primary and secondary colors.

That is what I thought. Thanks, Tom.

re: CRT. Also has no patterns for a convergence adjustment. But basic users wont' be doing that.

Just made a donation and downloaded. No I can really put Tom's instructions together with HCRF and Spyder2 to the test.

ps.
I read about color matrixes / color spaces and I have a VP30 video scaler where I can choose what output to use: Colorspace (RGB or YPbPr/YCbCr). I have not found any information what should (is best) be used with Sony HS60. I think this should be set correctly before starting the calibration process described here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Recommendations or guesses in this thread?

One problem I have noticed is that when I run this on my PS3 (HDMI, 1080p on a HD screen) I get a perfectly sharp image, no problems at all. Rock solid and easy to calibrate!

However, if I unplug the HDMI cable and put it into the back of my SD-DVD player (Sony) and run it at an upscaled 1080i, the image I get is slightly blurred and I notce what appears to be shifting of the image - it looks to be some sort of pulsing and I cannot get a stable image.

I'll take a stab. I'm sure getgray (or others) will correct me if I'm wrong. I would guess that your PS3 does a better job deinterlacing than your TV.

Sorry if this has been asked before, but is GG on DVD perfectly ok for calibrating 1080p sets in terms of accuracy? Or is it better to wait for a hi-def version of GG? Thanks in advance.

Gray scale is perfectly fine on HD. HD and SD grays are the same. Color patters could be off, depending on the HD player and it's upconversion behavior. Some convert the colorspace to HD if upconverting, others don't. Mixed bag.

BUT, if you are going to watch SD DVD's from teh HD player, then you need to calibrate with a SD DVD at least for one memory. After all you are tweaking the color as read off the DVD. The player will read the info off of either SD DVD the same. If the player plays the GG disc properly, then it will also play your SD movie DVD's properly.

Thanks GG - that's exactly what I needed to know. I'm sold! :D

Can't wait until a hi-def version (preferrably blu-ray) is available, hopefully soon!! and be the first on the market with a BD cal tool (to exceed DVE, Avia, etc. ;) )

Hi I ordered the GG and now have it on disk. I am going to ajust my RGB settings with GG and have a few short questions. Do I use the color ramps to achive color correctness of RBG on my digital display or is there a better pattern I should use? Also do I ajust the RGB before doing the standard ajustments on my display or after? I would think before but just want to make sure. I'm waitting for my cool blue glasses from THX before I do my ajustments. GG looks like a very nice program and I can't wait to use it. Thanks for your suggestions!

I think your question is more of a "how to calibrate" than about the DVD per se. Not to put you off, but if you start a new thread you'll likely get more help. A title of "order of adjustments when using a calibration DVD", or whatever suits you. Generally I do a brightness/contrast in the ballpark, then grayscale calibration with a meter (via RGB settings), then the color/tint, then do it all again.

I think your question is more of a "how to calibrate" than about the DVD per se. Not to put you off, but if you start a new thread you'll likely get more help. A title of "order of adjustments when using a calibration DVD", or whatever suits you. Generally I do a brightness/contrast in the ballpark, then grayscale calibration with a meter (via RGB settings), then the color/tint, then do it all again.

O.k. Thanks for the tips. I'll see if I can get some more info in my own thread. I look forward to using your disk to aid me in getting the best picture I can (on my own that is) out of my set.

I do have one question about GetGray. Is there any way to measure individual color saturations on the disc? I mean, I know we have those color ramps that we can look at, but I want to take actual measures with my probe and HCFR. HCFR can do this, measuring all six of the colors individually at intervals of 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%, but nowhere on the DVD do I see any patterns that will provide the relevant windows for me. Am I overlooking something? Or is this feature not in the current version of the disc?

Thanks,

David

Great question...
I was just going to add my $.02 on some features that should be in the next version of GetGray.

1. Would be color window patterns at 25% & 50% (in addition to the 75/100%) to measure color decoder in HCFR or for manual use also.
2. Another very useful feature in HCFR is the near black luminance measurement with 0-4% steps so matching gray window patterns would be great.

I have been using the original GetGray (and telling all others on AVS to get a copy) for over a year now and think it is the best !!!
Those additional features would make it even better ...

Todd

Have gotten the disk, great tool for calibrating, defintively my favorite so far and I thik I have them all... Just waiting for Get Gray on BR and HD-DVD...

Downloaded and used the GetGray DVD without any problems. Will recommend it to my friends.

Have you thought of converting the tests to other media? My Samsung HL-T5689S DLP has a USB port for attachment of a thumb drive. The port is usually used for firmware updates, but it can also be used to view JPEG files and to listen to MP3 files. Users guide is at http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200703/20070326174110812_BP68-00628B-01L03_0309.pdf . Look under the WISELINK section for details.

I tried searching this thread to see if this has been asked before. Sorry if I missed it.

Am I doing this right? After using GG to do basic white/black adjustments, and color, I check the color ramps--as indicated in the guide, depending on the source, the steps will run together at the high end on one or more colors. I have the ability to adjust the contrast for R, G, and B. So, what I have been doing is adjusting the individual color contrast controls so that I just get distinct separations on all three bars up to 235. Then, I go back and readjust basic white again to just fade out the WTW bars. Doing this on 1080p DLP projector with external processor. Does this sound correct?

BTW, GG is the best!

Will GetGray work when used with HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players? when I bought the disk originally I had an OppO DV-981HD but now I'm using both a HD-DVD and Blu-Ray player. Will the version I have work or is there an HD version I need to get?

Thanks in advance...

Will GetGray work when used with HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players? when I bought the disk originally I had an OppO DV-981HD but now I'm using both a HD-DVD and Blu-Ray player. Will the version I have work or is there an HD version I need to get?

Thanks in advance...

It will "work" in the sense that the HD players will upscale it to 1920x1080.

The question is whether or not the player is doing the right colourspace conversions or not. If not then you won't be able to adjust the colour properly.

Right, but dont' forget the importance of calibrating for SD DVD if you are going to play SD DVD with the player. If oyu are, then a calibration using the colors on teh SD disc are appropriate. As how the caldisc is played back is the same way a SD movie will playback

Right, but dont' forget the importance of calibrating for SD DVD if you are going to play SD DVD with the player. If oyu are, then a calibration using the colors on teh SD disc are appropriate. As how the caldisc is played back is the same way a SD movie will playback

I want to calibrate my Samsung BD-P1400 Blu-Ray and my Toshiba HD-XA2. Will there be an HD version of GetGray anytime soon?

Thanks...

No time soon. Sorry.

I want to calibrate my Samsung BD-P1400 Blu-Ray and my Toshiba HD-XA2. Will there be an HD version of GetGray anytime soon?

Thanks...

If your players do the upscaling correctly you can just use GetGray as is..For gresycale and contrast and brightness settings, sharpness, it will work fine, yuo just need to see if it your player can twist SD to HD colorspace correctly..Go to the HDDVD forum and as for the Samsung upscaling and also in the BDplayer forum for the same thing..

Just bought the calibration disc yesterday and used it with great results. Thanks for making such a high quality product.

The only question I have has to do with overscan. After getting things centered correctly, it looks like about 2.5% of the image is being cut off on all sides on my television. I have some very slight geometry irregularities near the corners, but nothing that I'm worried about. I'm also not especially concerned about missing a few pixels worth of information at the edges, but it made me curious. How much overscan is "normal"? Are TV manufacturers obligated to fix overscan issues over a certain limit as a warranty issue?

Thanks!

How much overscan is "normal"?
2-3% for standard definition is normal.

I have no idea how GetGray is put on the disk, but would there be any reason why the lipsync pattern might drop the white and black blinking image when the bar hits? Everyone at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=937992 seems to think the XA2 24p playback has been fixed, but I'm not seeing the flash on the lipsync pattern with the sound about every 4th or 5th time the bar moves up and down. The only thing I can think of is if the player might be dropping frames or doing something incorrecly that might carry over to watching movies. Any guesses on why I wouldn't be seeing the flash like with every other source?

I have no idea how GetGray is put on the disk, but would there be any reason why the lipsync pattern might drop the white and black blinking image when the bar hits? Everyone at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=937992 seems to think the XA2 24p playback has been fixed, but I'm not seeing the flash on the lipsync pattern with the sound about every 4th or 5th time the bar moves up and down. The only thing I can think of is if the player might be dropping frames or doing something incorrecly that might carry over to watching movies. Any guesses on why I wouldn't be seeing the flash like with every other source?

Does the problem coincide with the pattern restart? On my player the image always jumps a bit when the loop restarts.

I think the pattern is longer than it takes for the bar to go - bottom, top, bottom, top, bottom, top. It always fails within five hits when the XA2 is set to 24p through my receiver to my A3000 TV. I even put the player in 60p and sure enough it doesn't fail. It also doesn't fail on my Blu-ray player which should have been running the same signal path. I hadn't ever seen the flash not show up like I'm seeing on the XA2 with 2.7 firmware and 24p. It's better than the 2.5 firmware which entirely messed up the pattern, but I'm just not so convinced that 24p playback has been fixed after the first thing I looked at didn't seem to be right.

I even put the player in 60p and sure enough it doesn't fail.

Then it's because the disk is not meant to be inverse telecined to 24p.

Wouldn't the BDP-S1 be doing the same thing though?

Wouldn't the BDP-S1 be doing the same thing though?

Does it output 24p also? If so, and it works, then the problem is with the XA2 not recognizing that the source does not have pulldown flags, i.e. you will have problems playing non-film based sources in 24p on the XA2 but I don't see that as a real problem since you'd want to play those at 60p anyways.

Why would the lip synch pattern have issues at 24 fps?
Can it be fixed?

The lip synch pattern is one of the distinguishing test patterns that separated this disc from the other discs.
I think it was a brilliant addition, but I am curious why the others have NOT added it in.

Why would the lip synch pattern have issues at 24 fps?
Can it be fixed?

The lip synch pattern is one of the distinguishing test patterns that separated this disc from the other discs.
I think it was a brilliant addition, but I am curious why the others have NOT added it in.
The Toshiba HD DVD players can only properly output (at 24p) DVD content that is authored at 24p (that is, with repeat_first_field and top_field_first flags). This includes most movies, but does not include anything shot in video. The lip-sync test on the GetGray disc is authored in video, so it is not useful to test the 24p output of HD DVD players.

I'm not sure that any of the freeware MPEG-2 encoders can add telecine flags, so fixing the pattern may not be possible.

It's a difficult pattern to author, since each stream (video and audio) is created separately. Making sure that the muxed stream is actually in sync is not trivial.

Ron

I have been reading these forums for some time. I recently bought a Toshiba HD LCD and want to get the calibration aspect of it done. It looks great right out of the box, but I really want to have as best of a possible setup I can get visually (without calling a professional calibrator over).

I am fairly electronically inclined and not afraid to read up on what I don't know.

Would this disk (with the supplied documentation) be easy enough for me to get and use? Or would you guys suggest a different route?

Yes, it is easy enough to use.

If you've already read this thread and the stickied calibration ones in this forum you should be good to go.

Wish I had added the extra $5 for filters, I just bought 2 THX Optimizer glasses on their website for $1.99 each and almost $7 in shipping :eek: I am just starting to learn about calibration, (My Dream is to learn to do it for a living but no clue where to get my hands on education from LOL) That and the almost $15,000 in equipment I will surely need.

My home theater is a Dell 2405 monitor,( Trying to decide between a 1080p Samsung DLP, or Sony SXRD. (Still not sure which is best for hooking an HTPC too for online Gaming) Onkyo 6.1 home Theater in a box, Xbox-360 with HD-DVD Drive.

Calibration equipment is Avia, (misplaced it), DVE (HD-DVD edition), and Spyder2 Pro suite (Wanting to get a better one just not sure which to get). and HCFR software.

Dartel, I did the exact same thing last night. Thinking seriously about dwnlding and supporting the GG calibration DVD.

I just realized that awhile back I had received a free Vikuiti (3M) LCD DVD, and it has these blue film glasses included with the disk. Although I wound up with a plasma set, do you think this is the same blue film glasses that I would get from THX? (If so, I'll try to cancel my THX order9.

Also, I'll be running through a Toshiba HD-A3 DVD player, which should display an upconverted 1080i display of the burned GG DVD?

Thanks for any input.

I am thinking that if you would not miss the money the convenience of a WEARABLE filter :cool: might be worth you keeping the order. Mine just came in and its better than handling the filter strips and getting my finger prints all over them.

Can I calibrate my DLP TV using this GG disk DVD with Blue -ray or upconverting DVD player?

Can I calibrate my DLP TV using this GG disk DVD with Blue -ray or upconverting DVD player?

I would think that the answer would be yes provided the DVD player or the video processor (either standalone or within the display) is properly converting REC 601 to REC 709...

That said, I do stand to be either confirmed or corrected...

I just tried to use the Getgray disk . Its very easy to navigate. I have no problems with adjusting the brightness, color, tint sharpness but just cannot get my Panny 58ph10uka panel to make the white bars disappear no matter that I do with the contrast control. The center white bar blends right into the background as expected but I cant get above or below to disappear and reappear. So I set the contrast to about +2. However the 20 step grey scale came out very nicely and I can view every bar distinctly . I was using a Toshiba HDa2 ( HDMI) as well as a regular 480p (component video) DVD player. Its definitely easier to set the brightness with the Toshiba player.

Am I doing something wrong ? Tks

The digital displays I've owned don't clip whites, meaning that it's not a suprise you always see the white bars.

In this case how to set contrast levels without a meter? Lowest possible to get a decent white in a movie?

I prefer the highest possible contrast before a color begins to clip.

I prefer to measure it w/ my Spyder unit.

If using a lightmeter what ft lambert should one aim for ?

If using a lightmeter what ft lambert should one aim for ?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536 lists 35 fL. I've also seen 30 fL listed as SMPTE and THX standards http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12471330#post12471330.

I just adquire the GretGray Dvd and i'm very pleased with the quality of the product. But im not sure if its me or what but im having problems using the patterns to adjust brightness and Contrast on my display. Even at max contrast i can barelly see the -2% white level and i tried to go back and forth with the brightness level but it doesnt make that much of a difference. I wonder what im doing wrong. Btw im using my Xbox 360 to play the disc.

Thanks

I just adquire the GretGray Dvd and i'm very pleased with the quality of the product. But im not sure if its me or what but im having problems using the patterns to adjust brightness and Contrast on my display. Even at max contrast i can barelly see the -2% white level and i tried to go back and forth with the brightness level but it doesnt make that much of a difference. I wonder what im doing wrong. Btw im using my Xbox 360 to play the disc.

Thanks

What display and display type are you using as this may be a function of yoru display...

Im using a Viewsonic HDTV LCD model # N3251w

It might also depend on the Xbox. I believe there have been reports that the Xbox360 might not display below-black or above white depending on connection and settings. I think the discussion in the threads on my TV said that component will not display those levels and VGA will. With an LCD you should be seeing above white and below black as long as that's what the source is doing.

anyone nice enough to make me a BR copy of this...:0)

One thing i forgot to say, and in any way im trying to compare one product to the other. I did the calibration with DVE using the Xbox also and i was able to see and calibrate everything with no problems. But when i tried to use Getgray i couldnt set it right. I tought i should add that to the question, because if it would be the Xbox not being able to display bellow black then i woulda have issues with the DVE disc right?

Thanks again for the help.

DVE should have above white and below black on the ramp pattern. Below black is also in the DVE pluge. I'm not exactly sure what "when i tried to use Getgray i couldnt set it right" means. The only thing you mentioned in your original question was about -2% white so I'm not sure how brightness (black-level) comes much into play. Generally I don't expect digital TVs to clip levels near white, but the Xbox or TV could be clipping. Setting white output is somewhat subjective unless you have some way to measure light levels, and that's addressed at the top of this page and going back to the last page.

I figured it out. I had to get into the Factory menu of my Lcd in order to Turn Off an option called WHITE PEAK LIMITATOR. After turning it off i was able to adjust brightness and contrast with no problems using the getgray disc.

Thanks for all the replies

Knight_2000:

Good to hear that all is resolved...

Please describe the way to use a lightmeter which outputs LUX ? I managed to borrow an incident lightmeter . It has a dome in front of the sensor.

a)Which test pattern should I use?
b) How far from the screen should I place the lightmeter?
c) Do I average several reading from various parts of the screen?

Thanks

I just adquire the GretGray Dvd and i'm very pleased with the quality of the product. But im not sure if its me or what but im having problems using the patterns to adjust brightness and Contrast on my display. Even at max contrast i can barelly see the -2% white level and i tried to go back and forth with the brightness level but it doesnt make that much of a difference. I wonder what im doing wrong. Btw im using my Xbox 360 to play the disc.

Thanks

Concur that my XBOX HDDVD player will not output the -2 bar... you just won't see it over component cables. I know, because I rushed to get an XBOX prior to the HDMI version release... I suppose I could hook up over VGA...

Here's a link to a thread with discussion:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857014

That doesn't mean you can't have a fantastic HD picture from the unit....with some calibration.

Cheers,
Doc

Yesterday I learned about this interesting project for which I want to congratulate everyone involved. That's the kind of thing you expect from using and learning on the internet and particularly these type of forums. I read the manual and noticed the more useful patterns, particularly black and white level, so I bought the download a few minutes ago and can't wait to use it on my DLP.

I'm a "basic user" but I'm also the engineer of the family and they come to me for this kind of stuff, some friends too. In this crowd there is CRT, plasma, and LCD and so a couple of questions. Already read the manual and most of the thread, I'll get to the point:

1) In the manual and here Mr. GetGray doesn't mention plasmas. I think they are fixed pixel displays too, does the DVD works fine for them?

2) I understand that some specific patterns are missing for pro-calibration of CRTs, but Mr. GetGray indicates that for basic users the patterns offered are fine except for contrast, and I sure would love to use this on a CRT. OK, the contrast (white level) pattern is like the opposite of the brightness (black level) pattern. See, the pattern in AVIA and others is like very dependent on "eye" setting, the GetGray bars is a much more "mathematical" solution. So, if the brightness bars work on CRTs, what's the problem with the contrast bars, is there some technical detail that doesn't work for CRTs?

1. Yes, this DVD works just fine for plasmas.

2. Really the only patterns that are missing for CRTs are convergence patterns. For setting contrast on a CRT you would set is based on light output anyway. The old AVIA recommendation for waiting until the pluge pattern distorts never worked for me on a CRT anyway.

Thanks for the fast answer jvincent. But answer for 2 is not complete. Does the GetGray contrast bars work for CRT or not? If not, why?

It depends on what you want to use them for.

CRTs are different than digital displays in that they don't clip or colour shift at high levels. That being the case, you can't use them the same way so in a sense they are less useful.

OK, so that means that in a CRT the GetGray contrast pattern bars won't disappear or could do something different, yes?

Yes.

OK, interesting. Then the last question, and this could be seen as besides the scope of the thread, but it's regarding this GetGray DVD. What's supposed to happen when trying to adjust a CRT contrast setting with the bars of the Contrast Adjustment pattern?

It's been a while since I used GetGray with my CRT, and I don't have the CRT anymore, so I can't tell you what will happen.

I'm no CRT person so don't hold me to this. But the CRT contrast pattern is designed to show a limitation of the high voltage power supply in a CRT. A full white screen on a CRT puts the most load on the HVPS and the special patters show something called "blooming". You adjust to right before the HV supply in the CRT causes bloom.

My DVD has no such pattern and woudlbe impossible AFAIK to test for blooming with any included pattern.

Fixed pixel display technologies (DLP, LCD, LCOS, Plasma, etc.) do not have this electrical characteristic and thus do not bloom. Thus no blooming test pattern on the DVD.

HTH

Well, as soon as I can I'll try the GetGray on my old faithful Sony Trinitron and see what happens with that pattern. Maybe it's useful in some way, just not tested and compared with the usual patterns.

Julio Bro! -- As we said in the "instructions" (I am the author, with editorial inputs from Mr. Horton = Getgray), this disc is not intended for complete calibration of CRT displays. It is missing the Pluge Pattern tests which are needed for verifying the maximum white level settings for CRTs. jvincent had stated this very well.

For CRTs, you can use the "5% Step Gray Ramps" (page 9 of the Instructions) to check for blooming (blurring of the edges of the steps near the 100% white levels). You can also use the ANSI test pattern (see page 13) to look for blooming (the white square edges bleeding into the black squares).

As has been stated in this thread (and reiterated by jvincent), the Getgray calibration disc is intended for Fixed Pixel displays. This includes all of the display technologies currently available except for CRTs (analog scanning), including plasma sets. I found that the Getgray disc is the easiest, fastest, and most accurate tool for calibrating all my fixed pixel displays (LCD and DLP), which is why I volunteered to write the "Instructions" for it.

I haven't used this disc to calibrate my old Sony Trinitron (27"), but experimenting with the Pluge patterns on the AVIA and DVE discs did reveal that the white level could be adjusted to a level which caused blooming (a smearing of the white edges into the dark (or black) areas of the picture.

PS. -- I am a retired EE (B.S. in Physics), and have considerable experience with CRT displays. Like jvincent, I currently am not using any CRT based displays.

You know, I don't wanna get bad vibes here...I really admire what you've done. Just rounding things up with what the disc is capable of and what happens with the contrast pattern in a CRT.

And regarding GetGray, I tried it on my Toshiba DLP and the +2% and +5% contrast bars didn't disappear or blended with the background. Tried the alternative and can't get any of them to blend or disappear. Is this normal?

For Brightness, the pattern looks almost completely black, I need a few seconds for my eyes to define the text below. And the TV's menu graphics are very bright which makes it more difficult. It does get to disappearing the correct bars, but seems to take a bit over the +1% bar. Tried the alternative but then -4% shows clearly, so I set it back. Result was a darker setting than with AVIA, even at a couple of higher levels.

Checking the 5% Step Gray Ramps, white doesn't blend no matter how high or low the contrast, but the black bars blended from a couple of bars before getting to digital 16; is this normal? Using the Ramps I tried for a better setting by clearing up to the bar just before digital 16, but for that Brightness became too high. Feels like an inconsistency.

Colors, alignment and Y/C delay were fine. Any advice or should I take this to some other thread?

Hi Guys

I'm interested in trying GetGray on my Mitz 65" DLP which supports 1080p but have a question. Should I be able to see all test patterns on my display whether using Hdmi or component cables? The reason I ask is I have an older copy of Avia which when used on component I can't even see the bars for the brightness pattern adjustment. If I use Hdmi the bars will show up and can be adjusted. Using either connection will show the contrast pattern but i'm not able to adjust contrast correctly because the bars don't seem to disapear. Does any of this make sense and will GetGray be easier for me to use? Thanks.

JulioBro! – No bad vibes, any comments are taken as part of the learning process based on user’s experience.

1. Contrast and the +2% & +5% bars – As has been mentioned many times in this thread, some displays (like your Toshiba DLP) will not let you adjust it to make these bars disappear. This is a property of the adjusting circuits in your set, and is entirely normal for that set.

2 Brightness bars – You may have the Contrast control set too high which makes the menu very bright (I’m guessing here). You should have this setting adjusted so that the +1% bar can be seen. If the - 4% bar is clearly visible, then the black level (brightness) is set too high. The “correct” setting is so that the -4% and -1% just disappear (or almost disappear – this will be hard to determine if your menu is very bright, as you said).

3. 5% Step Gray Ramps – You should be able to see all of the bars between the digital 16 marker and the digital 235 marker. That is the specified range of the video material (movies and TV) coded on the DVDs. If the black bars blend together at levels above the digital 16 marker, then the Brightness setting is too high (you are washing out the information detail in the darkest scenes). The settings of your DVD player will also have an effect. Most DVD players also have a Black Level setting. This could be set wrong, which could explain why your black levels appear to be incorrect.

NOTE – You should start your adjustment (initially) with the Contrast adjustment set to mid-range and then do the Brightness level adjustment. This will help with seeing the black bars better (your menu won’t be so blinding). The Contrast should always be adjusted after the Brightness is set. Then you can go back and do a “fine tuning”. If your display has the white level set too high (whites are too bright) to start with, then you will have difficulty getting your display calibrated correctly.

If you have any further questions, please send me a PM, so we don’t overload this thread.

railmanm – You should be able to see all of the patterns independent of which connection (Component or HDMI) you are using. Even with AVIA, you should be able to see the bars unless your brightness levels are set to high (too high setting of Contrast also could wash them out using AVIA – the Getgray disc is much better for Brightness adjustment since the average pattern level is close to digital 16 (black). As I said (above), you may not get the “above white” bars to disappear, because your display won’t let you do that (by design). The only difference is that many of the adjustments will not be available with the HDMI connection, although the Brightness and Contrast adjustments should not be excluded.

2 Brightness bars – You may have the Contrast control set too high which makes the menu very bright (I’m guessing here). You should have this setting adjusted so that the +1% bar can be seen. If the - 4% bar is clearly visible, then the black level (brightness) is set too high. The “correct” setting is so that the -4% and -1% just disappear (or almost disappear – this will be hard to determine if your menu is very bright, as you said).
In cases with very bright menus, it's often helpful to evaluate the correct setting with the menu turned off.

1. Open menu
2. Adjust brightness a click or two up or down
3. Close menu
4. Evaluate black level
5. Repeat

That technique will certainly work, although it will take longer to get the adjustment correct.

If I were interested in contributing would someone be able to burn and mail me a copy of the calibration disc? I do not have a DVD burner, apparently I am in the stone-age compared to you-all.

Also, are the patterns from the Digital Video Essentials disc that "Avical" references in his DVE user-tutorial included on this disc? I would like to use his tutorial as a starting point for learning to use a new calibration DVD.

Does anyone know if there is ANY use to an older AVIA Guide to Home Theater calibration disc anymore? It seems like every pattern is 4x3, I'm not sure if that matters. BTW, I am calibrating a Samsung HLS6187W. Thanks!

If I were interested in contributing would someone be able to burn and mail me a copy of the calibration disc? I do not have a DVD burner, apparently I am in the stone-age compared to you-all.

Also, are the patterns from the Digital Video Essentials disc that "Avical" references in his DVE user-tutorial included on this disc? I would like to use his tutorial as a starting point for learning to use a new calibration DVD.

Does anyone know if there is ANY use to an older AVIA Guide to Home Theater calibration disc anymore? It seems like every pattern is 4x3, I'm not sure if that matters. BTW, I am calibrating a Samsung HLS6187W. Thanks!1. It would be easier if you had a neighbor, co-worker, or friend that has a DVD burner in their PC (desktop or laptop). DVD Drives with burning capability are available for under $30, and they are easy to install. Also, double check your computer manual, you may have DVD burning capability and not even know it. Almost all (90+%) of computers sold in the last 2 years have DVD burning capability). You can use the (free) ImgBurn (do a Google search) program to burn a DVD from the "ISO" download.

2. If you go to www.calibrate.tv (and scan down the page), you will find the (free) link to download the GetGray Documentation (which I wrote, with editorial corrections by Scott). It will tell you how to use the disc (but no "hand-holding"). At the bottom of the web page, you will also find the email address (replace the " -at- " with "@") that you can send an email to (but he does not provide DVD's, because of the hassle).

3. There is nothing "wrong" with using the AVIA DVD. Just because it is "old" (and 4:3) doesn't effect the usability of it (the standards haven't changed). However, the Getgray Caldisc is much easier to use (I own AVIA, DVE, and the Getgray disc - I don't use AVIA or DVE anymore).

PS -- If you have more questions, you can also send me a PM, and I will try to answer them. I may be on travel, so give me a day or 2 to respond.

Claus:

You got some kudos for the manual in the Rec 709 cal disc thread. Thought you'd get a kick out of it...

Cheers, Scott

Thanks Scott, I'll take a look. Did you mean the "AVS HD 709 - . . ." thread?

Ok I downloaded the software un-zipped it and tried to burn it. The first time it would not finalize using Roxie so I downloaded the recommended IMGBURN and tried it. Well I got the same thing the disk would not finalize so I did it a second time with the same result but this time it tried to finalize again and it worked. The disk will play on my laptop but my OPPO 980 does not recognize it.

Any ideas?

Thanks
JT

jtivat -- Did you burn the unzipped ISO file to a DVD-R disc? Some players will not read DVD+R discs (at least reliably). If you burned it to a CD, you have to burn it as a Video-CD (and that also may not work in your OPPO).

Did you download the, preferred, ISO version (it is the most reliable way to burn a DVD using IMGBURN, or any other package)? If you downloaded the Video_TS version, you have to make sure that you select the entire Video_TS folder.

If you have further problems, send me a PM. I'll try to be of further assistance.

jtivat -- Did you burn the unzipped ISO file to a DVD-R disc? Some players will not read DVD+R discs (at least reliably). If you burned it to a CD, you have to burn it as a Video-CD (and that also may not work in your OPPO).

Did you download the, preferred, ISO version (it is the most reliable way to burn a DVD using IMGBURN, or any other package)? If you downloaded the Video_TS version, you have to make sure that you select the entire Video_TS folder.

If you have further problems, send me a PM. I'll try to be of further assistance.

Thanks for the reply I tried it on a -R and it burned and plays fine. I thought the Oppo would play + but maybe not anyhow all is well now.

Thanx
JT

Thanks for the reply I tried it on a -R and it burned and plays fine. I thought the Oppo would play + but maybe not any how all is well new.

Thanx
JT

Don't mean to take this off-topic, but the 980 does play +R. It may be a issue with specific media types. Do you know the media code for the discs that didn't work?

-Bill

Don't mean to take this off-topic, but the 980 does play +R. It may be a issue with specific media types. Do you know the media code for the discs that didn't work?

-Bill

I will check when I get home tonight.

Is it possible to get a corporate license for this disk?
I run the staging dept. for a large A/V company and
would like to get this disk for all of our techs, we are
Talking 20 or so disks.

Hi All,

This is a great DVD Calibration Material so far. Simple menu and very useful.
But I need some guidance if I want to use this dvd with chroma meter i.e Minolta CS-100A, how to 'translate' the number on the gray scale bar to the number that the CS-100A read/measured (Chromaticity LV (luminance), xy, colour deviation)?

TIA.

This really helped me get a good overall clean picture. Avia & DVE left my display looking a bit too dark but this got it just right.
My 360 is out for repairs and have you ever considered making a set of patterns for the Wii & 360? I'd gladly pay for those if they worked just as well.

jtivat -- Did you burn the unzipped ISO file to a DVD-R disc? Some players will not read DVD+R discs (at least reliably). If you burned it to a CD, you have to burn it as a Video-CD (and that also may not work in your OPPO).

Did you download the, preferred, ISO version (it is the most reliable way to burn a DVD using IMGBURN, or any other package)? If you downloaded the Video_TS version, you have to make sure that you select the entire Video_TS folder.

If you have further problems, send me a PM. I'll try to be of further assistance.

Strangely enough Nero identifies it as a CD Image, not a DVD image.........

So I should burn it to a DVD even though Nero thinks it is a CD......

DVD. But Nero is problematic, version sensitive, etc. I recommend the free, small imgburn program for the iso. HTH

DVD. But Nero is problematic, version sensitive, etc. I recommend the free, small imgburn program for the iso. HTH

Okay I burned a -R DVD with ImgBurn.......

Now the fun begins......

if I am amateur, would this disc be easy to use? I tried DVE HD_DVD awhile ago and was overwhelmed due to the lack of instructions on the hd-dvd side

if I am amateur, would this disc be easy to use. I tried DVE HD_DVD awhile ago and was overwhelmed due to the lack of instructions on the hd-dvd side

The disc is really simple to use, much easier than DVE, but not as pretty to look at:)

I am as amateur as they come and by using the GG disc I was able to accomplish a "pretty good greyscale. (see attached)

This was on a little Mits HD1000U... unfortunately I have not figured out how to get into the Service Menu to play with the colors other than the basic 4 adjustments.

Now I am going to experiment around with my InFocus 7210.

Nero 6.0 works great.... never a problem... the newer versions I would stay away from.

DVD. But Nero is problematic, version sensitive, etc. I recommend the free, small imgburn program for the iso. HTH

if I am amateur, would this disc be easy to use? I tried DVE HD_DVD awhile ago and was overwhelmed due to the lack of instructions on the hd-dvd side

When I first started calibrating I practiced with the THX Optimizer which is available for free on certain discs. When I got GetGray I was able to use it immediately; not difficult at all. I much prefer it to Avia and DVE, although those discs do have some additional patterns which are interesting, but not essential (for me).

-Bill

Hey guys. I bought Get Gray back in the winter of 2006. I just moved and couldnt find it to recalibrate. Any clue how to get a copy again? I emailed the Getgray email address, so hopefully i can get a new download. Just wondering if any of you have had an experience like that?

Scott should have your original download information for you. I don't expect it to be a problem.

This disk has made it much faster to calibrate than using DVE. Is there any hope for a Blu-Ray version? It would be fantastic to have the same test patterns for HD.

This disk has made it much faster to calibrate than using DVE. Is there any hope for a Blu-Ray version? It would be fantastic to have the same test patterns for HD.

Search was my friend, found it at
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

Scott should have your original download information for you. I don't expect it to be a problem.

Who is this Scott guy? Is that the owner? I have emailed the get gray email address, but never got a response. Is there another way to contact him?

I (scott) have no outstanding emails. If you've emailed me and haven't heard back, then your spam filters are intercepting all responses. As the instructions on the website direct (I'm pretty sure), if you can't reach me by email, you can PM me here.

Thanks Scott! I actually found my disc, so I plan to make a copy and also keep a copy on my computer for future use. I looked through around 500 discs, and it figures it was the 5th to last!

Wil the THX blue filter glasses work with this disc? Is the blue filter the only one you need? I saw that Avia comes with three, I think red, blue and green.
Thanks.

Wil the THX blue filter glasses work with this disc? Is the blue filter the only one you need?

Yes to both.

-Bill

Hi Scott/GetGray. I ordered you excellent disc back in Jan and have been using it to set up my Philips 3575 HDD/DVDR and PX75U Panny plasma. I have a question about the contrast/brightness test patterns and how they are processed by the player in analog (s-vid or component) and digital (HDMI) domains.
My question: what digital levels are the lower (black) bars encoded on the gray ramp pattern, and how do they compare to the other patterns on the disc?
Why I ask (somewhat involved): I know I'm supposed to set the brightness to have 16 and below look the same. When viewing through the Philips DVD, these settings cause the picture to look very dark (even with "light" BL set on the plasma) and poor shadow detail. In order to have a picture that I feel has good shadow detail, I have to set the brightness so that I can differentiate all of the bars on the grayscale ramp. Here's the kicker, however: I can only achieve this on the analog outs (s-vid or component) and not on the HDMI. Over HDMI, the grayscale ramps can't be seen below 16 (the "16" is distinct from the < 16), but I can see the -1% and -4% moving bars on the next pattern, and also most of the <16 blacks on the Belle-Nuit test pattern (0 and 4 are same). Also, I can see the -2% and -5% bars on the dual level pattern. So why don't I see these values on the ramp?

More background:
I realize that at least part of my issue could be how both the DVD (and it's ATSC-to-NTSC tuner) and TV handle the different inputs/outputs. TV has separate pic adjusts for each input. But no matter how I set the HDMI on the DVD - RGB, RGB enhanced, YCbCr - and the adjustments on the TV, I can't seem to get good shadow detail on this input (my OTA direct to the TV looks great, though).
Thoughts?

chrisb0 -- We need to know a little more about what you are doing. From your description, it sounds like you copied the GetGray Caldisc files to the HDD on your Phillips 3575 and are playing it from there. Is this correct? BTW, the ASTC/NSTC tuners have nothing to do with the video processing of the Caldisc video.

As for the video in the Scott's video files, they are all encoded with the same basis (digital 16 = video black & digital 235 = video white). The only difference in the patterns (as described in the GetGray ReadMe file, which you should have also downloaded and read) is that the Gray Scale Ramps also include video information between digital 1 and digital 254. The Brightness pattern also includes the -4% (digital 7) and -1% (digital 14) signals as moving bars. The Contrast pattern also includes the +2% (digital 239) and +5% (digital 246) signals as moving bars.

The differences that you are observing between using the S-Video/Component (analog) connection and the HDMI (digital) connection is due to the way those two interfaces process the disc information. The HDMI connection passes the formatting information (as set up by the source device) to the display, the analog connection does not. This is why these two connections are processed differently. Which unit is doing the de-interlacing and up-scaling, will also have an effect.

Since these are details which are related to how your system is set up and being used, further discussion should be pursued outside of this thread. I would be happy to continue this discussion via PMs, if you want more help.

FYI -- I am the author of Scott's GetGray ReadMe "instructions".

[U]...From your description, it sounds like you copied the GetGray Caldisc files to the HDD on your Phillips 3575 and are playing it from there. Is this correct?
I tried to copy from the burned DVD to the HDD (for convenience), but b/c of the looping it will only record titles and not chapters (I think), or at least it can't advance past a sequence. Anyway, for my tests I just used the DVD itself I see these differences.

BTW, the ASTC/NSTC tuners have nothing to do with the video processing of the Caldisc video.
Realize that...questioning (to myself and anyone else) the quality of the tuners' processing


...as described in the GetGray ReadMe file...
Did read it, and saw the descriptions. I'm just wondering why I can't see the bottom 2 of the gray ramps, but I can see the <16 blocks on other patterns (moving brightness, dual bright/cont, Belle-Nuit) with the same HDMI settings.

I tried to copy from the burned DVD to the HDD (for convenience), but b/c of the looping it will only record titles and not chapters (I think), or at least it can't advance past a sequence. Anyway, for my tests I just used the DVD itself I see these differences.


Realize that...questioning (to myself and anyone else) the quality of the tuners' processing


Did read it, and saw the descriptions. I'm just wondering why I can't see the bottom 2 of the gray ramps, but I can see the <16 blocks on other patterns (moving brightness, dual bright/cont, Belle-Nuit) with the same HDMI settings.1. Thanks, that helps. Does your Phillips 3575 also play DVDs, or are you using a different DVD player? {And how is it connected to your display?}

2. The tuners don't do any processing. They just demodulate the RF signals and extract the raw analog or digital information. All of the processing is done by other circuits, as they do for the other sources (the HDD, DVD, etc.).

3. Good, then you do have all the background information. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "I can't see the bottom 2 of the gray ramps". Are they just not there (= background, or are they the same shade as the ones directly above them. It sounds like the issue (problem) may be with the HDMI output settings of the unit you are using as the DVD player. How many distinct bars you see will depend on how the playback and display parameters are set, as well as the type of connections. You also refer to the Belle-Nuit pattern - there are no areas in that pattern that are outside the digital 16-235 range.

Two more questions. Which Panasonic PX75U model do you have? The different models (sizes) have different resolutions. Also, how are you processing (de-interlacing and scaling) the 480i information on the DVD to your display's native resolution?

1. Yes, the Philips plays DVDs and can record to DVD or it's HDD. I'm connected by HDMI, component, and s-vid (for comparison).

2. The Philips has to convert the ATSC digital channels to NTSC for recording (only records in SD not HD), which is what I meant by "processing".

3. "I can't see the bottom 2 of the gray ramps" = First 2 are same level of black, then the "16" bar is lighter. The background is actually bar #6 or 7 IIRC.
"You also refer to the Belle-Nuit pattern - there are no areas in that pattern that are outside the digital 16-235 range." I see areas on the middle right of the pattern that are labeled 0,4,12,20 & 16. 0 & 4 look the same shade by HDMI, can see small difference on other inputs. I was assuming they were BTB.

4. "Which Panasonic PX75U model do you have?" - 50PX75U. The Panny upscales all inputs to 1080p then down to 768p.

5. "How are you processing (de-interlacing and scaling) the 480i information on the DVD to your display's native resolution?"- Philips set for 16:9 AR. HDMI can be set for 480p,720p,1080i/p. None of them changes the BL behavior. Component is 480p. S-vid 480i of course. The frequency test patterns (on the Belle-Nuit) look best when HDMI is set for 480p or 1080i, and component is 480p. All other variations cause stuttering in the B/W stripe patterns.

chrisb0 -- 1. Thanks. When I scanned the manual, I apparently missed that information.

2. It doesn't work that way. The digital channels are demodulated and the raw digital video (regardless of the received resolution) are delivered to the next (non-tuner) processing circuits. If it is a 1080i input, it is down-scaled to 480i for recording. If it is a 720p signal, it is intelaced and then down-converted to 480i for recording. If it is a 480i digital signal, nothing is done. This all happens after the tuner demodulates and converts the input signal to a digital video stream. If it is a NTSC (analog) signal, the NTSC tuner also converts the analog video to digital for recording, after demodulating it.

3. Ok, the 2 blackest bars can't be resolved. This is normal. For the Belle-Nuit pattern, I re-examined the pattern. You are right. In the center of the second row there are 4 blocks of interlaced groups of lines. These blocks are labled "4", "3", "2" and "1" - horizontal and vertical lines of 4 pixels, 3 pixels, 2 pixels, and 1 pixel in width. To the left of these blocks, there is a block of White with the top half being digital 235 and the bottom half being bars at digital 255, 251, 239, and 231. On the right of these blocks, is a block of Black, with the top half being digital 16 and the bottom half being bars at digital 20, 12, 4, and 0 (actually not digital 0, but digital 1 - digital 0 cannot be encoded by the YPbPr encoder used to produce the GetGray Caldisc). How much of these bars you see should match what you see in the Gray Scale Ramp patterns (at the black and white ends). This is shown in the ReadMe file, in the Belle-Nuit section (on the included picture).

4. Again, thanks. That's not quite true, AFIK. If the input is 1080i, it is de-interlaced and then down-scaled to 768p (at least it should be, some displays throw in an extra scaling step here). If the input is 720p (from a Fox, ABC or ESPN video camera, which are 720p cameras), then the signal is just up-scaled to 768p (there is no logical reason for it to be up-scaled to 1080p and back down to 768p). If the input is 480i (from a SD digital station), then it is de-interlaced and then up-scaled to 768p (again, it does not get double scaled).

5. What that says is that the 480i de-interlacing in the Phillips is better than in the Panasonic. This is the reason that the Belle-Nuit pattern was created (Scott used it under a license agreement from the author).

CT_Wiebe I appreciate the discussion on the subjects.

2. Thanks for the explanation of the process.
(out of order on purpose)
4. My info on the Panny's processing comes from the users forum here on AVS, and specifically from info provided by a Panny concierge/tech from Canada. It seems to be accepted knowledge on that forum, so I am only repeating it and not swearing to it :)

5. Glad the Belle-Nuit was included, helps me pick the best output for my system.

3. Ahhhh. This is the point of my post. To me, what I see in the Gray Scale Ramp pattern does not match the other grayscale-based patterns were BTB is concerned when using HDMI. Could it be due to the different average picture levels of the patterns when combined with a floating black level (I've seen some discussion of FBL in my TV's thread)? If this is the case, why only on HDMI?

You're welcome. Glad to be of, at least, some assistance. The following is in your order:

4. I suspected that, from what you said. I wasn't sure that the Panny did that kind of scaling (it does tend to lose a little detail due to the double processing). If it's done right, then you likely won't see any artifacts.

3. That is the real puzzle. There is not too much difference in APL between the Belle-Nuit and the Gray Scale Ramps (those are at 50% APL). The Belle-Nuit seems to be slightly higher, but not significantly so. However, there is a difference in how these patterns were generated. The Belle-Nuit pattern was obtained, as is, from the author, whereas, the Gray Scale Ramps were precision generated by Scott, himself. Therefore, differences between the two results are plausible. I've never looked for them, since the primary use of the Belle-Nuit pattern is to check the de-interlacing performance (the blocks labeled "4", "3", "2", and "1", from left to right).

NOTE: This type of discrepancy is also related with trying to put "everything" into one pattern.

There is, of course, a large difference in the APLs of the Brightness (APL = about digital 16) and Contrast (APL = about digital 235) calibration patterns (which makes them easier to get right). This allowed me to correctly set the controls on my Mitsubishi HC3 projector to maximize its poor contrast ratio, which I was unable to do with either the AVIA or DVE discs (their respective patterns have a 50% APL).

Hi all, I just wanted to say that I downloaded GetGray and ImgBurn and created a usable DVD on the first try. Now all I gotta do is figure out why our newish Philips LCD panel continues to display digital levels above reference white (digital level 235) no matter how I set the contrast. More tinkering!

--
Rocky JS

Now all I gotta do is figure out why our newish Philips LCD panel continues to display digital levels above reference white (digital level 235) no matter how I set the contrast. More tinkering!

That is normal behaviour for many displays.

Thanks, jvincent. Looks like headroom above white is sometimes used, so clipping would be a Bad Thing.

A good place to start are the stickied threads at the top of the forum.

I am preparing to buy the Avia II calibration disc for my Epson 1080UB video settings. I understand there is also audio calibration on the disc as well. Is this something that I need to use if my Onkyo 705 already has the Audussey calibration system? How do I ensure I am getting the best audio for my various sources (DISH HD DVR, A-35 HD-DVD). Thanks!

MRDC777 -- You don't need a video calibration disc with audio calibration on it (like AVIA). Your Audussey system on your Onkyo is far superior and is automatic (otherwise you would have to buy a Sound Level Meter in addition to AVIA, or DVD).

BTW, I believe that the Audussey system also has a provision for manual adjustment. So you could still get a Sound Level meter (the Radio Shack analog meter is recommended) and do some audio tweaking if you think it's needed.

The GetGray Caldisc and your Audussey is all you need to get a good calibration of your system. If you also have a Blu-ray player, then you also should get the AVS HD 709 (free, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496) software (burn it to a DVD-R, just like you would for the GetGray Caldsic - using ImgBurn, also free). The GetGray is for SD-DVD playback and the grayscale is the same but the color settings are encoded as Rec. 601 (HD uses Rec. 709, which is why you need both).

Download the ReadMe file (for GetGray) from www.calibrate.tv, unzip it and read it. If it sounds like you understand how to use it, there would be no need for you to also buy AVIA. The GetGray disc is also more accurate, IMHO.

MRDC777 -- You don't need a video calibration disc with audio calibration on it (like AVIA). Your Audussey system on your Onkyo is far superior and is automatic (otherwise you would have to buy a Sound Level Meter in addition to AVIA, or DVD).

BTW, I believe that the Audussey system also has a provision for manual adjustment. So you could still get a Sound Level meter (the Radio Shack analog meter is recommended) and do some audio tweaking if you think it's needed.

The GetGray Caldisc and your Audussey is all you need to get a good calibration of your system. If you also have a Blu-ray player, then you also should get the AVS HD 709 (free, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496) software (burn it to a DVD-R, just like you would for the GetGray Caldsic - using ImgBurn, also free). The GetGray is for SD-DVD playback and the grayscale is the same but the color settings are encoded as Rec. 601 (HD uses Rec. 709, which is why you need both).

Download the ReadMe file (for GetGray) from www.calibrate.tv, unzip it and read it. If it sounds like you understand how to use it, there would be no need for you to also buy AVIA. The GetGray disc is also more accurate, IMHO.


CT--Thanks again for all your help and feedback. You are very patient with us newbies! I will continue to use the Audyssey for audio calibration and look into the GetGray for video calibration. The only reason I was leaning toward the AVIA was I thought it would be more user friendly for beginners. I'll take your advice and download the Read Me first to see if the GetGray will work for me.

Thanks again!

MRDC777 -- Yes AVIA is user friendly, but if you think you can use the GetGray disc (and I think you can), it's the better way to go. If you do get it and find that you need help, feel free to send me a PM, and I will try to assist you over the hurdles.

I just donated so I should expect an email with a download link right? I have had DVE but could never work the color filter quite right, I like the 5% RGB of this calibration software. I have a Mits HC3000 and have borrowed some others user settings and really had it looking very nice but still want to set it up for my room. My DVE disk had a RGB color filter in it that I should be able to use with this one right? Anyway hope I can burn it right I have Vista but have not burned anything since I got it, I have a Plexor DVD burner but crappy Memorex DVD-R's so well see how it goes... I'm ready for some tweaking since I hated the DVE disk.

MRDC777 If it sounds like you understand how to use it, there would be no need for you to also buy AVIA. The GetGray disc is also more accurate, IMHO.


CT,
Would you mind elaborating how you came to this conclusion? Thanks.

I have a Bravo D1 DVD player and I just bought the disc but Im shocked to find everything dead on out of the box. The moving 2% and 5% Maximum White and Maximum Black and the combined window show Contrast and Brightness should be 0 and 0. At 6500K the RGB ramps all ramp up with no clippiing at either end of the gray scale. The blue flashing squares show as one solid uniform blue under my filter and the 75% background color box show perfect blend at the 75% level and brighter at 100% and darker at 50% and 25%. The red filter showed proper accross the board. the only one that was off was green but I'm red/green color blind and changeing the green contrast and green brightness under user had no effect on the green level(to make them match). I was under the impression that the Mits where not accurate right out of the box, but this one seems perfect to my understanding of how the disc works, I had no clipping/crussing in the white and blacks and the clor ramps didn't clip at either end and the blue level was perfectly blended. I can tell while watch a DVD that its dead on but when watch HDTV(David Letterman/Leno) I can't tell if its accurate. I'm watch both via HDMI should I have the gamma set to Video when watching HDTV? So Im a little confused but OK with it, after checking and rechecking, and rechecking HDMI from my Bravo D1 was perfect out of the box. I have 950 hours on my bulb. Does anyone know what the levels are regarding the D1 compared to A HDTV STB via HDMI. It a Samsung H260F.



The Disc itself is a masterpiece for first time users, I learned it all in 15 minutes and while not overly complex the RGB ramps at least told me I wasn't clipping any colors. DVE couldn't tell me that. At simple additive would be RGB gradients and 1%,2%,3%,4% and 5% bars for RGB if thats possible. The installer he suggest is the way to go mine worked everything in the first pass and I have Vista.

ThomasV555 -- When Scott was in the development of the GetGray software, he spent an extraordinary amount of time making sure that all of his patterns were precise and maintained this accuracy throughout the encoding process. This accuracy was also verified by AVS members who are also calibration professionals.

I own the AVIA "Guide to Home Theater", DVE, DV, the original Joe Kane Calibration Laserdisc and other DVD Calibration discs. The GetGray Caldisc, is easy to use and has all the necessary patterns for video calibration, and none of the extras. It is faster and easier to use than the others, if the user is familiar with how to perform video calibration. It is also set up so that it can be used with automated measurement tools.

I, personally, was able to maximize the black level and Contrast Ratio performance, with the GetGray Caldisc, on one of my PJs, which was not possible with either the AVIA or DVE DVDs. I no longer use either of those calibration tools.

Good morning,
Does the getgray grayscale patterns adhere to the 16-235 standard? 0 IRE=16 100 IRE=235...

Do the primaries and secondaries colors adhere to the standard 16-235?

Thanks

The disc is authored to digital video standards.

I.e. 0% stimulus = 16 and 100% stimulus = 235. IRE is properly used only for analog systems.

For the colours, did you mean to ask if it was Rec 601 or Rec 709? Since it is SD-DVD it uses Rec 601.

For the colors I was meaning what values were used to build full color (example Red: R=235, G=0,B=0).... I'ma asking because the HCFR DVD patterns have strange values... at least with the patterns I've tested, but I may be wrong... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13557001#post13557001)

In you example 235,0,0 would produce illegal YCbCr translations IIRC. My disc properly uses 235, 16, 16 for red, prior to it's conversion to digital YCbCr. Similarly for other colors. Same as Avia Pro and DVE Pro.

Getgray, yestarday, i've bought your disc.
In the meanwhile, just to keep the discussion on an academic point of view, did you test hcfrs patterns? they look targeted for a 0-255 reference, nevertheless it looks like they have some small errors..

I'm asking because I've read somewhere that you've builded the getgray disc because you've discovered som errors in other pattern discs.... was it HCFR?

This is what I've done:
- demuxed the VOBs to mpeg2
- opened the mpeg2 with virtualdub
- saved the patterns sequence as .tga files
- measured the values in photoshop

If the above is a correct process then the disc is definitelly targeted for 0-255 and has some small errors..... and maybe the HCFR software is makeing some compensations to 16-235 internally??

Hope to receive your instructions to download the DVD and.....getgray!

did you test hcfrs patterns? they look targeted for a 0-255 reference, nevertheless it looks like they have some small errors..
No, it did not exist at the time and I would not have anyway. I only tested the Pro level commercial DVD's and the more popularconsumer DVD's. Those were only done as "sanity checks" to guarantee that mine was correct. Avia (consumer ver) was the one with the less accurate patterns IIRC.

I've got the disk. The only concern is about the color sequence, that is in HCFR you have RGBYCM........ will have a go anyway......

I've demuxed the disc and getting sort of strange 0-255 with some 253 or 254 values.

At this point It's obvious that the demuxing process or the targa conversion is wrong.

So the test I did with HCFR DVD is wrong too!

Getgray, yestarday, i've bought your disc.
In the meanwhile, just to keep the discussion on an academic point of view, did you test hcfrs patterns? they look targeted for a 0-255 reference, nevertheless it looks like they have some small errors..

I'm asking because I've read somewhere that you've builded the getgray disc because you've discovered som errors in other pattern discs.... was it HCFR?

This is what I've done:
- demuxed the VOBs to mpeg2
- opened the mpeg2 with virtualdub
- saved the patterns sequence as .tga files
- measured the values in photoshop

If the above is a correct process then the disc is definitelly targeted for 0-255 and has some small errors..... and maybe the HCFR software is makeing some compensations to 16-235 internally??

Hope to receive your instructions to download the DVD and.....getgray!Your computer is converting the Video Black (digital 16 = 0% stimulus) to digital 0 and Video White (digital 235, 100% stimulus) to digital 255. The software in your PC is doing the conversion incorrectly.

The accuracy of the GetGray patterns have been throughly checked by GetGray and other professionals (AVS Members) - this was discussed in the early posts in this thread. They have the correct video values. HCFR on the other hand was created to be used from a PC. The GetGray Caldisc was designed to be used from a DVD player (it can be played in a PC, directly from the VOB files, but are only correct when the player software and the video card are set up correctly).

The 0-255 range is what is used in computers and 16-235 is what is used in correctly mastered video (YCbCr encoding - that is what is on the GetGray disc).

Have you read the GetGrayReadme "instructions"? It tells you how to use the software. You can download and extract it from the GetGrayReadme.zip file on the www.calibrate.tv web page.

I've demuxed the disc and getting sort of strange 0-255 with some 253 or 254 values.

At this point It's obvious that the demuxing process or the targa conversion is wrong.

So the test I did with HCFR DVD is wrong too!Yes, the process you used was incorrect. Your use of HCFR could be incorrect also, if you didn't use it right. You need to follow the instructions, for either software.

As I said in my previous post, you need to have the PC hardware and software set with the correct options, since the video grayscale range is different for the PC use and for video use.

Well, about the pattern sequence, I was thinking that each calibration software should have a customizable color sequence, to be pattern adaptive.

About getgray: the patterns are quite bigger than HCFR's; this could mean 2 things:

1) lower temperature drifts on high intensity patterns (good)

2) Higher power drain (the infamous APL problem on plasmas).... but as many people are using getgray out there and no complains about it.... must be allright!

thanks for explaining

Just dropping a note to say that I got this today. Thanks much Scott. For full disclosure, I already own Avia/Avia II, and have used Tom Huffman's free DVD as well as HCFR's PAL DVD. This is the only disc I've found with color ramps for the three primaries from 0 - 100 percent brightness - which I need to find out exactly what a particular control on my Samsung LCD is doing.

I see what blutarsky means. The pattern sequence in HCFR is different for the secondaries when doing a measurement run. It seems easy enough to work around using the back button. I will say I also like that the pattern stays in place for as long as one needs it to. One of the things I do not like about Avia II is the lack of that feature. And on some of its patterns the pause button does not seem to work.

cheers,


--tom

Is it a waste of time to use GetGrey without a colorimeter?

Can I get close by eyeballing it with my Panasonic TH-PX4280U?

Thanks

Is it a waste of time to use GetGrey without a colorimeter?

Can I get close by eyeballing it with my Panasonic TH-PX4280U?

Thanks

It's definitely not a waste of time. How close you get will be determined by how good your eyeballs are.

The features that make GetGray good/usefull whether you are using a meter or not, are (in no particular order):

1. Accurate patterns.
2. Complete set of patterns for brightness, contrast, colour, greyscale.
3. Simple and intuitive navigation.

It's definitely not a waste of time. How close you get will be determined by how good your eyeballs are.

The features that make GetGray good/usefull whether you are using a meter or not, are (in no particular order):

1. Accurate patterns.
2. Complete set of patterns for brightness, contrast, colour, greyscale.
3. Simple and intuitive navigation.
Thanks jvincent, and for your answer yesterday as well.

From going through the documentation, I had a question: when calibrating the 5% step grey ramps, what control is used? Brightness? Contrast? Both? I know GetGrey assumes a certain level of knowledge, so I understand why they would not have such basic info.

I think I will "donate" this weekend. I'll post any more questions I have.

Thanks again!

Thanks, jvincent, and for your answer yesterday as well.

Think I'll donate this weekend. I'll post any more questions I have and let you know how good my eyeballs are...

Thanks again!

Yes, get it! I use a GretagMacbeth fluorescent bulb (from Ideal- Lume) against a Kodak gray card just below my TV and do an "optical comparison". Gets real close. Then I use the bulb as bias background lighting.

That is how we did it for years before reasonable spectroradiometers and colorimeters were available. Still do in the shop with repairs that don't get the full calibration but get service level adjustment.

The human visual system is very easily fooled without an objective, neutral, and accurate reference with which to judge display performance. That is the purpose of an optical comparator. Here's a link to a thread that offers graphic demonstrations of how readily anyone's color perception can be skewed: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 . No one's "eyeballs" are immune to error when attempting to adjust gray scale without an objective reference (genuinely neutral gray card) under controlled viewing conditions (D65 illumination).

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

The human visual system is very easily fooled without an objective, neutral, and accurate reference with which to judge display performance. That is the purpose of an optical comparator. Here's a link to a thread that offers graphic demonstrations of how readily anyone's color perception can be skewed: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430 . No one's "eyeballs" are immune to error when attempting to adjust gray scale without an objective reference (genuinely neutral gray card) under controlled viewing conditions (D65 illumination).

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
Thanks, George. I've already been on your website: Ideal- Lume products seem very reasonably priced. I'll probably try one after I try out my eyeballs on the GG disk.

Yes, get it! I use a GretagMacbeth fluorescent bulb (from Ideal- Lume) against a Kodak gray card just below my TV and do an "optical comparison". Gets real close. Then I use the bulb as bias background lighting.
Thanks Disto.

Is there a specific Kodak grey card you're using?

Go to a photo supply and ask for a Kodak 18% (degree of reflectance) Gray Card or equivalent. B&H Photo is the largest online resource. Last time I checked, Kodak had them on backorder for many months. They may have started shipping again. There are also other manufacturers. That solution is only one level of gray, however.

Another reference source is Munsell (SMPTE uses the Munsell Color Order System for their color reference). We developed a Munsell 10-step matte gray sample set (from black to white), available on our web site. With these you can fabricate a 10-step optical comparator that's more versatile and easier to use throughout the entire gray scale.

I ordered my disc this morning-and look forward to its implementation. I'm just another grateful AVS member. Thank you, GG.
I have the Gels/Films from my original Avia DVD. These should work fine-if I need them(?) Also, is there a preference from members, between using the spyder and X-Rite hardware? Thanks in advance.

Posting this mainly because I am in a hurry and do nto want to go through the tome of data here. I do not care about a calibration DVD to set audio systems, but need ont for video only, and have an old crt rptv that has lousy grayscale and a whacked convergence line (just one!). I am hearing here that the getgray is going to be a better tool for me that any of the commercial offerings, and i have no test equipment of filters? Are full instructions included? Thanks in advance - there are so many messages on this forum, reading the ones that apply to this simple question would take an hour, and there are plenty of helpful people here.

The manual is downloadable from the website. Link in the first post.

djm3801 -- All of the information you need to order the disc for downloading is on www.calibrate.tv. The GetGrayReadme.zip file is there too.

Got it. Thank you both.

Well, fast service and a very usable product. Got it within a couple of hours of paying, extract, burn were painless. Exactly what I was looking for. Set looks better already. Now all I have to do is try to get the one red convergence line back where it belongs )it went berserk while I was GENTLY tweaking 2 days ago) and I will have a much improved set.

Regards,

Guys I'm happily using the Getgray DVD disc and the most impressive result, is that I'm experiencing much more constant measurements!

- I was wondering if it could depend on windowed patterns size, bigger than HCFR's.... maybe the drifts I was experiencing were caused by too-high-intensity patterns, on my plasma screen?

- Another question for the author: you suggest 75% patterns, while HCFR guys reccomend 100%...... it's the same debate... why do you prefer 75%?

- Why do you show a 75% pattern following the 100% in the grayscale sequence?

- Last question: skipping to "next" chapter on DVD (example: in the grayscale patterns) is a bit slower than HCFR's DVD... is there a particular reason?

Does anyone see a reason not to use the Getgray disc on CRT direct view displays if one is only using it to do grayscale and color measurements in HCFR? I've gone through and re-did a few older CRTs using Getgray (I also have Avia/Avia II and had been using Avia II's gray window patterns for grayscale but they are a pain to navigate) with pretty much the same results. I also re-did color - I had been using Tom Huffman's 75 percent window patterns on his calibration dvd - and the results were pretty much the same for chromacity although brightness numbers were a bit higher resulting in a tick or two down of the color control. I also noticed this on our main Samsung LCD display so I assumed that it was not related to just the CRTs.

Edit: After a few searches through this thread, I think I found a definitive answer here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9812811&highlight=CRT#post9812811

thanks much,


--tom

- Another question for the author: you suggest 75% patterns, while HCFR guys reccomend 100%...... it's the same debate... why do you prefer 75%? It was the concensous by top calibrators at the time I made the DVD. If the color decoder is correct, the color values won't change with luminance changes. Some displays were taxed by 100%.

- Why do you show a 75% pattern following the 100% in the grayscale sequence?Becasue when running a grayscale with Progressive labs software it was convenient to take a 75% measurement at that time.

- Last question: skipping to "next" chapter on DVD (example: in the grayscale patterns) is a bit slower than HCFR's DVD... is there a particular reason?Might be due to my DVD using the full DVD authoring spec and having some programming associated with that move. The patterns are looping, I expect the other one is not, and times out, moves on whether you advance or not.

Edit: After a few searches through this thread, I think I found a definitive answer here. Yes, still correct.

I have the Gels/Films from my original Avia DVD. These should work fine-if I need them(?) Perfectly.

I have been using GetGray for the past few years on my oppo dvd player and optoma projector. It was a piece of cake calibration contrast and brightness since all bars were clearly visible (except reference black and white of course).
I just received a new dvd player (oppo 983) and started to calibrate through optoma hd65 connected by hdmi. To my surprise I could not see the below black bars (-1%,-4%) or the above white bars (+2%,+5%) not matter where my brightness/contrast setting was set. I could make out the other two bars on the right side and can make them disappear through brightness/contrast settings.
Can someone explain why those 2 left bars are not visible with this new player?
I can make out the 5% gray ramps and see the different gray bars until reference black and white.
Any thoughts, explanations and suggestions? - thanks

I just received a new dvd player (oppo 983) and started to calibrate through optoma hd65 connected by hdmi. To my surprise I could not see the below black bars (-1%,-4%) or the above white bars (+2%,+5%) not matter where my brightness/contrast setting was set. I could make out the other two bars on the right side and can make them disappear through brightness/contrast settings.
Can someone explain why those 2 left bars are not visible with this new player?
I can make out the 5% gray ramps and see the different gray bars until reference black and white.
Any thoughts, explanations and suggestions? - thanks

You may want to search through the thread for the 983 in the standard def dvd forum but what is your color space setting in the player's configuration set to? It may be if the 983 is set to RGB Video, it is not passing the blacker than black and whiter than white signals.

hope this helps,


--tom

You may want to search through the thread for the 983 in the standard def dvd forum but what is your color space setting in the player's configuration set to? It may be if the 983 is set to RGB Video, it is not passing the blacker than black and whiter than white signals.

hope this helps,


--tom

great suggestion - will try it out
(p.s. I love these formus)

You may want to search through the thread for the 983 in the standard def dvd forum but what is your color space setting in the player's configuration set to? It may be if the 983 is set to RGB Video, it is not passing the blacker than black and whiter than white signals.

hope this helps,


--tom

You were on the right track - setting the dvd player to RGB video made the blacker then black and the whiter then white visible - thanks a lot.

GetGray,
What is the latest version of "GetGray"?
Not sure what version I got from you over a year ago.

RayJr

GetGray,
What is the latest version of "GetGray"?
Not sure what version I got from you over a year ago.

RayJrVer 1.1. Hasn't changed since last year.

Thanks for the reply :)

I donated over 24 hours ago and still have nothing, I have also sent 2 emails with no reply. What gives?

I just want to calibrate my TV

I donated over 24 hours ago and still have nothing, I have also sent 2 emails with no reply. What gives?

I just want to calibrate my TVWe replied back. If you don't get that message, PM me here.

GetGray,
Hi I got version 1.1 back in May, 2006. Is there a newer version of 1.1 than I have?

if you go up like 4 post you can see his reply to me

Rayjr
Dude, he said:
Ver 1.1. Hasn't changed since last year.

I did mention May, 2006? I'm talking about two years ago. Last year is less than two years ago, right? The reply is why I asked!

ok...sorry

tsteves -- Ver 1.1. Hasn't changed since last year.Did you read this? It hasn't changed, period. If you have version 1.0 or 1.1, you have all the test patterns you need (the difference between 1.0 and 1.1 is basically cosmetic).

Got my disk after a paypal mixup finally. I must say I configured my set last night and WOW my picture is poppin! PS3 and Xbox 360 are much more enjoyable now with the correct contrast and brightness and I haven't even adjusted the color/tint yet because I just ordered the THX glasses. What an easy and excellent product to use on your TV!! I WILL recommend you to others!

I got my disk within an hour of paying. Burning it was painless with imgburn.

I was finally able set up my contrast to the maximum possible of my display. However, I discovered that the maximum white level my display is capable of before clipping is much brighter than is comfortable watching. At least I know now. My Eye One DisplayLT is coming in the mail soon. I am looking forward to using it with this disk.

This is the most useful calibration disk I have used. I would recommend it to anyone.

This is just a suggestion and something that might add a little value to the package, and shouldn't cost much money and maybe someone here will do it for free. It would be very nice if someone would make a DVD cover slip with the GetGray emblem. Something nice that you could slip into a full sized DVD case that would hold the GG disc. It could be sent along to be printed out along with the instructions, that you could remove and cut to fit the standard DVD case. Right now I have mine in my DVE case, I only suggest this because once the initial art work and labor had been done then its so simple and a nice feature to add value and function to keep the disc handy, protected and clean and professional looking like it is. I apologize if this has already been done I didn't go back through the whole thread. I'm not that skilled or I'd do it my self and leave it here for others to use.

This is just a suggestion and something that might add a little value to the package, and shouldn't cost much money and maybe someone here will do it for free. It would be very nice if someone would make a DVD cover slip with the GetGray emblem. Something nice that you could slip into a full sized DVD case that would hold the GG disc. It could be sent along to be printed out along with the instructions, that you could remove and cut to fit the standard DVD case. Right now I have mine in my DVE case, I only suggest this because once the initial art work and labor had been done then its so simple and a nice feature to add value and function to keep the disc handy, protected and clean and professional looking like it is. I apologize if this has already been done I didn't go back through the whole thread. I'm not that skilled or I'd do it my self and leave it here for others to use.It should be included with your download (it's called "DiscLable.jpg"). If it isn't, I've included it, below. If you want a higher resolution version send me a PM with your email address and I'll send it to you.

This is just a suggestion and something that might add a little value to the package, and shouldn't cost much money and maybe someone here will do it for free. It would be very nice if someone would make a DVD cover slip with the GetGray emblem. Something nice that you could slip into a full sized DVD case that would hold the GG disc. It could be sent along to be printed out along with the instructions, that you could remove and cut to fit the standard DVD case. Right now I have mine in my DVE case, I only suggest this because once the initial art work and labor had been done then its so simple and a nice feature to add value and function to keep the disc handy, protected and clean and professional looking like it is. I apologize if this has already been done I didn't go back through the whole thread. I'm not that skilled or I'd do it my self and leave it here for others to use.

Here is a DVD cover slip I threw together from the logo included with the documentation.

Jedirun -- Nice work!

Here is a slightly better version of the DVD Cover Slip thanks to higher resolution graphics provided by CT_Wiebe.

I have a larger file that is too big to be posted here. If you want it, pm me and I will email it to you.

Just got my first plasma and I want to get it right as quickly as possible without breaking the bank. I am very interested the get grey disc but i have a couple of questions.

First, is see people talk about the importance of proper illumination (D65?) but if you are watching your tv in various lighting conditions (daylight, darkend, lights on) won't even a properly calibrated tv look different in each case due to the light of the room at a given time? Do you recommend having a couple of completely calibrated settings, one for daytime, one for darkend room?

Also, my new tv (samsung pn50a450) has a many more picture adjustments than just the standard stuff. HDMI Black control, Dynamic contrast, cell light, white balance, etc... how do you know which of these sub menus to tweak when using the disc?

Thanks for helping out the new guy!

wookiered,

A couple of general comments. Yes, it is in fact desirable to have different calibration settings for different viewing conditions. This is most important for setting brightness/contrast and gamma.

As far as which controls you need to setup, you should read a few of the calibration stickies at the top of the forum. They will give you an idea of what you need to adjust and how to go about it. In the end though, it will take many hours of trial and error for you to get it right.

Why don't manufactures just have a built in dark viewing and light viewing setting that is pre set to ISF specs?

The bean counters rule in most large corporations. Margins beat image fidelity just about every time. Most TV buyers don't care about the nuances of better imaging. Oprah, Oprah, Oprah............Who's Smarter Than A 5th Grader?....etc.
Why don't manufactures just have a built in dark viewing and light viewing setting that is pre set to ISF specs?
How dark should they predetermine "dark" should be, and how light should they assume "light" will be? Should "light" be a North facing family room with walnut paneling, 2 windows and a couple of lamps on, or a South facing living room at mid day with a 12 foot high bank of windows and white painted walls? Ambient lighting conditions can have a huge effect upon picture settings. There's no way a display manufacturer can anticipate the viewing environment conditions in a customer's home.

Learning how to properly adjust a video display is the responsibility of the user. Manufacturers don't attempt to explain such things in the owner manual in any significant detail, because they know from focus groups and market studies that most of their customers won't read it, and even fewer would comprehend it.

The masses aren't that interested in the details. They want their TV to be like a toaster...unbox it, plug it in, turn it on, guess at how to adjust it, then live with the results. Over 12 million NEW televisions are sold in the US every year! How many of those customers are a members of a home theater online forum or own a home theater setup/calibration tutorial DVD?

The bean counters rule in most large corporations. Margins beat image fidelity just about every time.

Bean counters rule in most successful large corporations.

And margins drive profits. Without profits the company goes out of business and stops building TVs. If each TV needs to be hand tweaked for ISF calibration, then that cost will have to be passed along to the customer. I'm pretty sure that Vizio sells more TVs than Pioneer, yet Pioneer is typically considered to have a much better picture. Customers can only afford what they can afford. I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse now, but you get what you pay for.

Here's a good article I just received the link for today that deals with this issue rather well: http://www.proavmagazine.com/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1767&articleID=699217
Better quality frequently loses out in the consumer electronics industry. Like it or not, consumers who value image fidelity are in the minority and probably always will be.

Yes, I realize that I (we) are in the minority, just like on the audio side of things. Too few people seem to think that quality audio matters either.

As to my question of factory set 'light" and "dark"
presets, I do understand the that no to homes are alike. And I certainly understand the bean counter theory. However, if ISF is a standard then a properly calibrated TV in a darkened room that is moved to an outdoor patio the very next day might LOOK different but it has changed at all, only the environment has, so therefore it is still "accurate".

Seems to me that once you design a TV, a manufacture could determining that x generation panel needs x,y,z tweaks done to it to make it ISF compliant. It would just be one more automated step in the process. Or if not automated, at least repeatable, for every TV that rolls of the line. And it would be a HELL of a lot cheaper than the 300 dollar best buy deal.

Greetings

There is no ISF standard. There are SMPTE standards that have been around literally since the birth of TV. (60+ years)

"We make our yard sticks 39 inches long because longer is better." :D

The marketing of a TV set has nothing to do with presenting accurate images. It has everything to do with selling more TV sets.

Regards

Seems to me that once you design a TV, a manufacture could determining that x generation panel needs x,y,z tweaks done to it to make it ISF compliant. It would just be one more automated step in the process. Or if not automated, at least repeatable, for every TV that rolls of the line. And it would be a HELL of a lot cheaper than the 300 dollar best buy deal.
Seems to me that you assume a lot! When Joe Kane worked with Princeton Graphics to design his wonderful 32" CRT several years ago, which sold for $4,000.00, did you buy one? When Samsung incorporated the DLP formater board adjustments in their HLP series RPTVs, did you buy one? Do you own one of the JKP/Samsung DLP front projectors? Would you pay the extra money for a JKP/Stewart projection screen?

There are displays out there which are pretty good out of the box and offer the correct adjustment facilities to get them to behave according to video industry standards. Usually they cost more than $300.00 vs. their competition. Most displays don't even offer the facilities to calibrate them fully. This is probably a rude awakening for you, but it's the truth.

While I am by no means a videophile, it seems to me that what you are describing are niche products. I am simply saying that when it wouldn't be near that expensive if the economies of scale wear captured by implementing those types of changes I suggested on the largest volume sellers from Panny, Samsung and the like. These manufactures sell millions of units worldwide. Now, if the demand isn't there, if the consumer does not care, then they certainly don't have to. And no, I wasn't one of those who purchase those esoteric products you mentioned. I do not have the funds for such extravagances (well at least if I want to keep my wife and child :) ) Everything trickles down. Just look at car safety tech, I assume it will be the same with this industry as well. Does anyone hear doubt that five years from now the "average" plasma will have black levels as good or better than a pioneer kuro?

Greetings

That is why Panasonic has a Cinema mode and Samsung has a Movie mode. About as close to correct as you get with assembly line realities. You want more precision ... prepare to pay more.

Regards

The mass market consumer doesn't care about image fidelity. TV manufacturers know this very well. At least some offer upscale (niche) models in their lines to sell to those who do care. As Michael pointed out, precision will cost you more, and that's true in almost all aspects of the market. Some day you may come to realize that mediocrity is the prevailing preference of the masses. Genuine excellence is the exception rather than the rule.

hi, does it usually take the full 24 hours to receive the link/credentials after donating? I donated last night (fri), and nothing yet, do they send out over the weekend?
thanks

Hi-
I received my disk.
Right out of the chute I am thrilled because this disk is SO much easier to navigate.
I also needed an easy way to calibrate contrast on digital displays (Panasonic Plasma and Sanyo Projector) and other disks just didnt have that.

Right now I am trying to calibrate the contrast of my Panny Plasma. I am using a Tosh HD-DVD A2 player connected via HDMI, and XBOX connected via HDMI and a HTPC connected via component, on each of these devcies the Plasma displays the above white bars just fine. However, adjusting both the contrats and brightness I can not get the abive white bars ti disapear into the background. I have no issues setting the Brightness using the BTB test pattern.

I assume the answer to this is somewhere in this huge thread but I cant seem to find it.

Any ideas?
thx

Contrast bars not disappear: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12775809#post12775809

thanks. sorry, my bad, I was searching Panasonic Plasma..clearly a dead horse topic now that I found it...thx

donb1948 -- Couldn't have said it better myself :D.

Hi-
I had a ISF calibrator come in and calibrate my Sanyo Z2000 and he did a great job.
However I am finding with GetGray that the Contrast should have been cranked up quite a bit to get the above white bars to disappear. I am wondering if I crank up the contrast as per GetGray, will that mess up the Custom RGB Gamma he came up with for proper gray scale? In other words, if I change the Contrast signifigantly, does the RGB needed to be recalibrated?
thanks in advance

Hi there,
Have just downloaded GetGray and burned to disc. Thanks for speedy service (within an hour or 2)! I'm having a Calman pro calibrator package delivered tomorrow and can't wait to get started!!
Cheers,
Iain

Crussell1492,

I suggest you ask your calibrator.

Hi-
I had a ISF calibrator come in and calibrate my Sanyo Z2000 and he did a great job.
However I am finding with GetGray that the Contrast should have been cranked up quite a bit to get the above white bars to disappear. I am wondering if I crank up the contrast as per GetGray, will that mess up the Custom RGB Gamma he came up with for proper gray scale? In other words, if I change the Contrast signifigantly, does the RGB needed to be recalibrated?
thanks in advance

I would just leave it be. Displaying whiter then white is just fine as long as the whiter then white bars are not obviously discolored. If you do have any questions, I recommend contacting your calibrator since I'm sure he will have a rationale for doing it as he did. You are more likely to cause more harm then good if you alter what he did.

Crussell1492,

I suggest you ask your calibrator.

That would be rocket science, George.

Not in my neck of the woods!

lcaillo -- You forgot to attach the appropriate "smiley" :rolleyes:.

crussell1492 -- Leave it as set by your calibrator. A lot of DVDs, especially Blu-Ray ones are apparently mastered with WTW information in high-lighted areas, intentionally. You want to be able to see those. Also, many newer displays won't even allow you to set the Contrast per the instructions, that I wrote, for the GetGray Caldisc. You want the best gray scale calibration, which is what your ISF calibrator did.

Hello all. After doing some inquiring as I was led to the GetGray disc. Is there anyway to get this disc without PayPal? I maintain a pretty low internet profile and prefer to pay with things on the internet with a credit card. Thanks in advance.

ogbuehi, Send me a PM

PM sent.

I have a RGB color filter that came with my DVE disc, I'm still not sure on how to eyeball the calibration. I have the brightness and contrast set correct of course but don't really under stand how to use the color filters. I believe there is something called D65 and it is different then 6500K. Do I have to use a electronic tool like the EYE-One to get D65 or can I use the filters. I don't understand how to use the color ramps other than they tell you what is getting crushed or clipped after a D65 tuning. If I can set the D65 with a color filters and the ramps I'd like to try.

I have a RGB color filter that came with my DVE disc, I'm still not sure on how to eyeball the calibration. I have the brightness and contrast set correct of course but don't really under stand how to use the color filters. I believe there is something called D65 and it is different then 6500K. Do I have to use a electronic tool like the EYE-One to get D65 or can I use the filters. I don't understand how to use the color ramps other than they tell you what is getting crushed or clipped after a D65 tuning. If I can set the D65 with a color filters and the ramps I'd like to try.

If you download and read CT_Wiebe's instructions from the GETGRAY site it will tell you how to use the disk.

rahull -- Thanks for the plug! You are right, one has to follow the instructions in order to get the proper calibration.

rrhomes -- The only way to calibrate the PJ to D65 is to use a colorimeter (or equivalent) like the Eye-One Display 2/LT meter and the appropriate software like CalMAN (see www.spectracal.com).

If Art (www.projectorreviews.com) has reviewed your PJ, then you can look it up on his site and (in the "General Performance" section) for his settings to get close to D65 for your PJ model - without spending the money for a Display 2/LT and the CalMAN software.

Using the GetGray disc, or any other calibration disc (such as the AVS HD 709) by itself, will not provide you with calibration to D65. It will only get you a uniform grayscale. Examining the Grayscale Ramp test patterns will show you any non-uniformity of the grayscale (it should be gray with no color tinting anywhere in the ramps).

Visual calibration will only get you close to the best picture quality that you can get. If you want to get more precise, then you must spend the money, and time (learning to use the measurement tools) to do so. The only other alternative is to hire a professional calibrator.

The COLOR and TINT adjustments basically sit on top of the GRAYSCALE that produces the amount of light you see. Adjusting these with the blue filter (depending on the set) will give you hopefully accurate colors if the GRAYSCALE is correct. If you are inclined to do so buying the equipment doing all the adjustments yourself can be rewarding. If you get into trouble you'll find help on this site.

rahull -- Thanks for the plug! You are right, one has to follow the instructions in order to get the proper calibration.

rrhomes -- The only way to calibrate the PJ to D65 is to use a colorimeter (or equivalent) like the Eye-One Display 2/LT meter and the appropriate software like CalMAN (see www.spectracal.com).

If Art (www.projectorreviews.com) has reviewed your PJ, then you can look it up on his site and (in the "General Performance" section) for his settings to get close to D65 for your PJ model - without spending the money for a Display 2/LT and the CalMAN software.

Using the GetGray disc, or any other calibration disc (such as the AVS HD 709) by itself, will not provide you with calibration to D65. It will only get you a uniform grayscale. Examining the Grayscale Ramp test patterns will show you any non-uniformity of the grayscale (it should be gray with no color tinting anywhere in the ramps).

Visual calibration will only get you close to the best picture quality that you can get. If you want to get more precise, then you must spend the money, and time (learning to use the measurement tools) to do so. The only other alternative is to hire a professional calibrator.

Thanks, it looks like ART did his with brilliant color on which I'm pretty sure I don't wan't, but will try them to night since it a free guess. I think I'll get me a eye-one very soon and just get it done right. thanks again.

so how is it a donation again if i have to donate? i can see this disk mighty useful, but i dont like the idea of a "forced donation" to find out. where did you go to business school? lol you do realize there are comparable disks on these same forums for free download?

so how is it a donation again if i have to donate? i can see this disk mighty useful, but i dont like the idea of a "forced donation" to find out. where did you go to business school? lol you do realize there are comparable disks on these same forums for free download?

Why worry about it, just use the free one. I like this one and it was well worth it to me.

I bought my disc yesterday and I love it. It has all I need in a single package and most important, I know the authors have been challenged on the accuracy of some of the patterns and they have either defended their work or made amends when needed.


Great job guys. :)

I am using a HTPC and LCD projector set up and have the getgray disc.

Should I be able to get getgray to work with Windows Media Player (WMP) or will it only work with a software player like TheaterTek or Power DVD? If it will work with WMP what am I doing wrong?

I can get it to work with TheaterTek but I'm finding navigation to be a problem. Unchecking Use As Default Player in TheaterTek does not get me to WMP.

Thank you.

Assuming that you aren't using WMP 6.4 you should be able to get it running on WMP by installing most non-free players, you could try the nvidia purevideo decoder trial, it enables WMP to do DVD and it doesn't clutter your PC with 3rd party DVD players.

I have WMP ver.11 installed.

The link to the trial is there: http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_decoder.html

Branchd from Lumagen Radiance thread:

Hey Scott, before the server crash you mentioned something about incompatibilities between the getgray disc and oppo players - can you elaborate? I intend to get the disc pretty soon...

It's not an incompatibility per se. One of the beauties of my DVD is it's patters stay on-screen until you are ready to move. This is accomplished with some advanced DVD authoring techniques that make the pattern repeat after it plays. At least some of the older Oppos could not make that move fast enough and so you would see a blink in the pattern when it repeated. Except for some older Arcam player, they were the only ones I remember having the issue. The DVD still worked fine with them, it just had the blonk on some repeating patterns. I don't know if the later model Oppos ever got fixed or not.

Branchd from Lumagen Radiance thread:



It's not an incompatibility per se. One of the beauties of my DVD is it's patters stay on-screen until you are ready to move. This is accomplished with some advanced DVD authoring techniques that make the pattern repeat after it plays. At least some of the older Oppos could not make that move fast enough and so you would see a blink in the pattern when it repeated. Except for some older Arcam player, they were the only ones I remember having the issue. The DVD still worked fine with them, it just had the blonk on some repeating patterns. I don't know if the later model Oppos ever got fixed or not.

Thanks - the 980 is pretty fast so hopefully that won't be an issue. And it looks like more of an annoyance than a real show stopper bug anyway :).

Branchd from Lumagen Radiance thread:



It's not an incompatibility per se. One of the beauties of my DVD is it's patters stay on-screen until you are ready to move. This is accomplished with some advanced DVD authoring techniques that make the pattern repeat after it plays. At least some of the older Oppos could not make that move fast enough and so you would see a blink in the pattern when it repeated. Except for some older Arcam player, they were the only ones I remember having the issue. The DVD still worked fine with them, it just had the blonk on some repeating patterns. I don't know if the later model Oppos ever got fixed or not.

Hi Scott ,
I've got the Oppo DV-970HD and your disk works just fine , thanks !

Question , would it be possible to add/modify your Overscan Pattern to include four circles in each corner of the 2.35:1 frame ? I and possibly other CIH users would appreciate the ability to check the proper scaling of our image after the stretch through the Anamorphic Lens . I've checked every other DVD Test Disk I have and no one has thought to include this .

Thanks in advance ,

Scott..............:)