Anyone.....
This is in quotes because someone gave it to me when I was designing/spec'ing my home theater. I don't remember who, though it might have been John Dahl at THX. It also doesn't give you fish, but it may help you catch fish. :)

"Divide the projector lumens by the area of the screen (in square feet) and then multiply that number by the gain of your screen to get the screen illuminance in foot lamberts. I personally prefer this number to be about 30 for maximum 3-dimensionality without having the dark image areas too bright (when I start to see MPEG block artifacts it's too bright for me); however the SMPTE spec for movie theater screens states that this number should be about 12 (to prevent people from seeing the 48 Hz flicker). So you need to ask yourself whether "movie theater" brightness is okay, or whether maximum punch is more important before deciding which way to go. The CEDIA demo screen illuminance was about 32 foot lamberts."

Anyone.....

Rudel,

I don't see the 119" screen to be a problem. I run a 128" Firehawk and when I reviewed the Panny, I found brightness to be adequate on the Panny. My screen has a bit more gain than yours (1.25). Ultimately it will be your taste, how light your walls are - the darker, the brighter your screen will seem (not a big difference, but everything that helps...

Projector central's throw calc doesn't tell all. First we don't know what mode? is that the darkest - Cinema1? I assume it's based on theater brightness, but then, do you find theater viewing bright, a little dim, etc.

What makes our perfect system is ultimately several things - for example, you can move the Panny up from Cinema mode, to one of those designed to handle a bit of ambient light. While there will be compromise in black levels, etc., to you, the large screen may be far more important.

I love the size of my Firehawk, and I sit close - 11 to 12 feet back. Love it, but unhappy with the softness of DVDs, but hey- Blu-Ray's coming with 720p. (I figure Blu-Ray will win, no problem, because Sony's going to have it's playstation 3 able to play Blu-Ray. That should mean a million plus Playstations by next new years, and that means they will have the economy of scale to keep prices down on their DVD's, and hardware. -art

Under the "Option" menu, Auto Search should be "On".

It is, but from reading through the manual, it only does a search when the projector first comes on. The BenQ would start cycling through input/sources as soon as it lost a signal. Doesn't look like the 900 does this. :confused:

Art.....

I know you have the 8700+ as I do....... after living with the 8700+ for a year and half how does it compare to the 900?

After being a "DLP Snob" (or so I have heard us referred to) could you live with the 900?

thanks

Steve

after reading evry page of this thread i decided to get a ptae 900
i had a 4805 before this one but it blew up in a thunder storm.when i first turn on the pj it mahes a very soft high pitched noise while the fan starts up and lasts for about 20 seconds,then goes away can any body tell me if this a problem it doesnt come back at all while the pj is running,just every time it is turned of and then fired back up.i have no vb on this unit and i did the calibrations that the calibration thread said to do with no lens filter.if any body thins this pj has sde they are looking at the wrong pj.i didnt like lcd till i saw this one i dont see the rainbow effect on dlps but some of my friends did on the 4805 and that did bother me ,because i have a dedicated home theartre and i want my friends to enjoy the experience as much as i do.got about 8 coming around to night so hope they like the pj as much as i do
also thanks to avs for this sight it made my life alot easier to decide on what pj to get just wish that our prices in australia were as cheap as they are in america

I received my AE900 today. I took some time to create a new template for my mounting plate and mounted the projector level and square to my screen. I'm currently using S-video right now as I don't have a breakout cable for the other end of my Component run. Since this will not be my main source of input I didn't want to spend too much time calibrating so I opted to use the THX Optimizer found on Episode 3. 15 minutes of tweaking later and I was ready to sample. I started the movie at the beginning and immediately noticed a very big difference in contrast and black level/shadow detail. The black of space, the shadow detail on Anakin's and Obi Wan's faces was a dramtic improvement over my TW100.

I will be picking up a proper component cable tomorrow and I will do some proper calibration with Avia. In summary I am very impressed with what Panasonic has been able to achieve at this price point.

Got my ae900 today as well and the smile on my face just wont quit. It is a little green in the mid-tones and playing with the standard tint and color setting is not solving my need.
Could someone either post the service menu access procedure or PM me if you dont want to publicly post it. Id like to try my avia disk and even use some of the tweak data presented elsewhere on this forum.

Again, this projector is amazing for the cost and is an instant hit with the whole family.

Thanks

Dennis

does any body elses pj make a very faint high pitched noise when you first start it up and the it goes away it only lasts for about 20 seconds
thanks

Paul, what your are hearing is the auto iris.

new projector arriving today :D what steps do I do or look for to make sure all is ok before I start racking up hours on bulb

Ordered my 900 from V/A last thursday UPS ground, it hasn't been scanned since leaving Redmond on Friday, though the tracking still says on schedule for deliver on Dec 16 - can anyone who has ordered from VA assure me that this is normal for them and I should still expect to see it tomorrow despite no tracking waypoints? I cannot describe the disappointment I will feel if I get home tomorrow to no package, particularly knowing that means nothing til Monday.

Oh, and while I'm wasting everyones time, what is the screw size of the mounting holes on the bottom of the pj? (it's a long darn thread to search through)


I had the same tracking results when I ordered from them too. Nothing until the day of delivery and then it was updated. They're pretty accurate on the delievery date. As for the mounting screws, I don't know. I purchase a Chief-225 mount from VA with my PJ and love it, wouldn't use anything else to hold up a $2,000 investment. The adjustments are easy and very solid, great product. They gave me a good discount for ordering the two together too.

BTW - you'll love your new 900, it has amazing color and clarity, not "soft" at all, I don't know what people are talking about when they say it's not a sharp picture. On DVD it's very filmlike and clear. Love this projector. I'm just finishing my HT setup over the next few weeks and I'll post pictures.

Enjoy!

only 6 months old, in use for about 3 months and has ~500 hrs on the bulb. AWESOME PICTURE!! I've decided to upgrade to the 900 because I like the 700 so much and want a little more brightness & contrast. Shipping will be extra depending on how fast you want it.

Does anyone know if there is an equipment code for the Oppo 971 DVD player which will work in the Panny 900 universal remote? None is listed in the 900 manual. Is "learning" the only way to get the Panny remote operating the DVD player?
I did a quick search but didn't find an answer.

Is "learning" the only way to get the Panny remote operating the DVD player?


For the Oppo, yes.

For the Oppo, yes.

Thanks!
Saved a lot of trial and error.

It is, but from reading through the manual, it only does a search when the projector first comes on. The BenQ would start cycling through input/sources as soon as it lost a signal. Doesn't look like the 900 does this. :confused:

I think I might be glad to hear this. I've had my 900 for a day over a week now, and my wife's called me twice saying that the projectors on, but not getting a picture. It's been scaring me, but she did just confirm that she turns the projector on first. Anyone know if the projector will continue auto searching for the first signal or if it will stop after a while with this too?

Rudel,

Ditto on the previous responses, to which I will add the previous (weeks back I think) discussion of how the aperture varies with zoom, and consequently affects lumens and resulting ft/L, really got my attention as I don't see how these online tables can compensate for that. I throw about 22 ft to a 119" wide screen in a completely light controlled room. I obtained samples from Da Lite and purchased High Contrast Cinema Vision, 1.1 gain. Cinema 1 appears a little dim for my taste but is acceptable. IMHO the high contrast grey screens would probably not work at all at this size and distance. I'm waiting for Mike to post tweaks for dynamic and normal with component connections as I think this will help, but it is great as is. If Mike is as busy developing and posting other tweaks on other threads I'm wondering if he will find the time in this life...... :eek:

Michael A
Cypress, Texas

"Time results from the projection of consciousness into space" Alfred E. Neuman

"I can't see the future; hope that I'm in it" Michael A

I'm supposed to get my second 900 today, I really hope it doesn't have VB like the first one. I don't mind if I just see something in test patterns, but when you see it all the time in video it's pretty bad. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to use the panel tweak, the flicker tweak really didn't seem to effect VB at all. The Panel menu did somewhat though, but not to an acceptable level.

I guess I am lucky. I have a AE900 with no VB that I can see. The panel allignment and convergence is also very good. RSmith4321, if you have VB with your second unit I would check to see if the problem is caused by someting else. Other ground problems can look like VB. I would not try the flicker tweak until the unit is on for at least 45min. I had slight VB with my old AE700 so I know what VB looks like. I had luck tweaking it out by adjusting the colors in the special menu until the flicker was reduced.

I want to post some pictures but it won't allow me because I don't have 5 posts yet. This message should do it. Pics of pannie in next post :p

here we go :p

Some pics of my temp improvised setup. Gonna dedicate a full wall to mount a fixed screen, but gonna have to reorganise my room first.

Small can at the bottom of the picture for scale. I suck at taking pictures with digicam, it's a lot sharper in real life, camera overlits it too a bit.


http://home.versateladsl.be/vt635561/beamer2.jpg
http://home.versateladsl.be/vt635561/beamer3.jpg
http://home.versateladsl.be/vt635561/beamer4.jpg

Screen is a thin MDF plate with white finish. Too glossy, i'll definitely paint it. Projector not calibrated yet. I've just set it on Cinema1 and put lamp on low.

I guess I am lucky. I have a AE900 with no VB that I can see. The panel allignment and convergence is also very good. RSmith4321, if you have VB with your second unit I would check to see if the problem is caused by someting else. Other ground problems can look like VB. I would not try the flicker tweak until the unit is on for at least 45min. I had slight VB with my old AE700 so I know what VB looks like. I had luck tweaking it out by adjusting the colors in the special menu until the flicker was reduced.

I see it in bright solid colors, it's easy to demonstrate in a %60 grey pattern or other test that put up a solid color. It looks somewhat like if your screen had very slight ripples in it. It's very noticable to me in video, not when there is a lot of variety in the scene, but for example a blue sky would show it up. It looks a lot like what I have heard described as VB, what else could cause this? By the way my second unit is not here yet so it still could just be a bad unit.

On my 2nd 900 now both have had VB on blue! Very noticeable when feeding projector signal feed (without device on / plugged in and set to blue in osd menu). This unit I was able to eliminate the VB by going into the service menu and adjusting the blue panels from 15 default to 11. Also notice that blue convergence is off wich could be the culprit not noticable from where I am sitting.

On my 2nd 900 now both have had VB on blue! Very noticeable when feeding projector signal feed (without device on / plugged in and set to blue in osd menu). This unit I was able to eliminate the VB by going into the service menu and adjusting the blue panels from 15 default to 11. Also notice that blue convergence is off wich could be the culprit not noticable from where I am sitting.


Just curious mate, i have some minor VB, but have no clue how to use the service menu, what do i want to do in their? I adjusted flicker and thats sorted but i have no idea what i have to do in the panel adjust menu. any help would be great...

thnaks
n0s

On my 2nd 900 now both have had VB on blue! Very noticeable when feeding projector signal feed (without device on / plugged in and set to blue in osd menu). This unit I was able to eliminate the VB by going into the service menu and adjusting the blue panels from 15 default to 11. Also notice that blue convergence is off wich could be the culprit not noticable from where I am sitting.

That's funny, my blue seems perfect, I mostly have VB in the green and some red. Nothing I adjust in the panel menu will eliminate it. Where is FedEx anyway with my new unit. I think blue convergence is off a bit on every PJ, my red is slightly, but nothing that seems to effect it from a normal viewing distance.

I received a new 900 today and am having a problem with a slight, but annoying, ghosting effect, most noticeable around people, as well as a bit of a small swirling effect in some areas like around graphics at the begining of a movie. The colors and brightness look great but these two issues were bugging me and the detail seemed lacking most likely because of them. I hooked up my older Boxlight LCD pj that is too be replaced by the Panny and noticed a little bit of the same thing so I suspect its not the PJ. I suspect the brighter/better image of the 900, with no SDE, is making it even more apparent. I haven't been watching the pj much lately because my 3 sons have taken over the basement theater for their social activities and the wife and I have been enjoying the upstairs Sony 60" LCD. When you have kids you have to make sacrifices. :p Any ideas on what might be causing this? I ran the componet cables directly from the DVD player to the pj with no improvement. Could it be that I need the electric conditioned or what? Hate to drop money on a new pj and have a so-so picture. Thanks for your help.

If your having the same problem on 2 different pj's try changing out your componet cables. Also check the settings on your DVD player.

Just got my new one and it's still got VB. It's actually a little better than my first unit, but still noticable. Also, while it doesn't seem to be visible normally, when I do the flicker tweak there is a strange shakey line about 30 or 40 pixels wide that goes across the middle of the image horizontally. Again, I only see it in the flicker tweak, but my old unit didn't do that. It also seems lighter on the top half of the screen than the bottom during the tweak. Anyway, any suggestions about the VB or do I just need to give up? Perhaps I'm just very sensitive to it, although I never had a problem with rainbows at all. One good thing, this unit has almost perfect convergence. I wish I could just have this unit without VB it would be great.

So rsmith4321, what is your second choice in pjs? Just wondering?

So rsmith4321, what is your second choice in pjs? Just wondering?

I guess the Sanyo Z4 since they supposedly worked more on the VB problem.

rsmith4321

If I was you I would take it over to a friends house and using his cables (whatever he has that is handy) and shine it on a wall if you have to. If you know someone with a screen and pj the better. If there are no problems there, then you discovered where the problem is. If the problem is still there, then it is most likely the projector. Better to be sure before you keep sending things back. I did this for a friend and he discovered the problem was not his projector.

Troy, my second choice would be a Sony HS51. In retrospect, I should have gotten one to start with. True, it costs like a third more taking into account the AE900 rebates, but you almost never see any complaints about VB with Sony PJs in general and the HS51 specifically.

rsmith4321, I am glad that you have the option to return the PJ. I don't. I have had a couple of conversations with the dealer after sending the unit in for VB evaluation, but it is a no go - no exchange unit, no accomodation on the 20% restocking fee (I asked them if they would grant me an accomodation of a 10% restocking fee). I believe that the dealer is sincere in believing that the VB my unit has is 'normal'.

My advice to those considering this PJ is that you might want to look for a return/restocking policy that will let you out of the deal if you are not satisfied. There are a few dealers out there that let you return a unit within a week with no restocking fee. There are restrictions, like single digit bulb hours and 2nd day return shipping. It is true that these dealers may be a bit more expensive, but it certainly would have been worth it in my case. I wish that I had translated the cine4home review's section on vertical banding before ordering the PJ. They had three units. One of them had bad VB and they took a photo of it. The second had less. And the third had no VB. They likened it to a lottery.

Anyway, my unit is coming back to me. I find the problem marginal in that I will have to give it some time to see if it really ends up interfering on non-animation material. On cartoons and the like, I rather doubt that I will stop noticing it.

The only caveat, that might make my situation atypical, is that I am using a 106" diagonal DaLite High Power screen (gain = 2.7). I figure I am getting a bit more than 30 foot lamberts of luminance with the bulb on low. I actually like this tradeoff between black level and brightness (white level matters too). I figure that over the life of the bulb, I will average above 16 FL and that the bulb will not go below the 12FL 'theater standard' before it is time to replace it. So, I am kinda praying that the VB becomes less noticeable with time.

BTW, all those trying to select screens with no data that provides both output and zoom lense settings, don't forget to take into account that the bulb will be considerably dimmer after a couple of hundred hours and that over its lifetime, will average say ~60% of its original brightness (this is a guesstimate).

In six months I may be happy as a pig in the poke, or I may be putting the unit up on eBay. I am a bit dissappointed in having an artifact that was not present in either of my first two projectors (NEC 9PG Xtra CRT PJ, Sony 10HT) introduce itself in my third projector. If I can get past the VB I have, the AE900 is an awesome PJ for the price.

Writing this has made me feel better - looking forward to watching some movies when I get the PJ back. After all, this is what it is ultimately about. (I don't do TV.) I have never found a whole lot of joy in watching the projector.

rsmith4321

If I was you I would take it over to a friends house and using his cables (whatever he has that is handy) and shine it on a wall if you have to. If you know someone with a screen and pj the better. If there are no problems there, then you discovered where the problem is. If the problem is still there, then it is most likely the projector. Better to be sure before you keep sending things back. I did this for a friend and he discovered the problem was not his projector.


I've used PJ's for a long time now, and I've tried over HDMI and component, different sources and test patterns. It's not the cables or sources, I've never seen it with a DLP. It's possible that it's something in the power, but I doubt it. Especially since this PJ has a slightly different VB problem than the first, it seems to be in a different color panel, I don't notice it in blue anymore, an improvement. But it's still there. I think it's just the price of LCD, I guess you get what you pay for. I tried to leave DLP because I was cheap, now I regret it.

rsmith, my first generation Sony 10HT had no banding at all, and from everything I hear, neither does the HS51. I think it is an overgeneralization to say the VB is the price of LCD. What might be true is that it is an issue with lower priced 720P LCD PJ's in the under $3500 category (I have no idea what the story is with <720P PJ's). After all, with the exception of Sony and perhaps a couple of others, don't they all use the same panels, which may have problems that make them difficult to drive in terms of VB?

Jacob.....

The problem with the Sony HS51 has always been the low light output and the horrid SDE.

Unfortuantely at least in this price point we have not yet found something perfect!

So each person has to figure out which demons he is willing to live with... or cannot live with.

I've used PJ's for a long time now, and I've tried over HDMI and component, different sources and test patterns. It's not the cables or sources, I've never seen it with a DLP. It's possible that it's something in the power, but I doubt it. Especially since this PJ has a slightly different VB problem than the first, it seems to be in a different color panel, I don't notice it in blue anymore, an improvement. But it's still there. I think it's just the price of LCD, I guess you get what you pay for. I tried to leave DLP because I was cheap, now I regret it.

Folks,
There is a forum sponsor (right at the bottom of this page ;)) that offers an "no questions asked" return on the 900, as long as you request an RMA within 7 days and <10 hours, and they match prices! I have nothing to gain here, but I can say from experience that they mean what they say, and there is no pressure or BS whatsoever.

You do have a choice!

hi got my pj 3 days ago couldnt be happier
i have no vb on my machine but i did see that the one at the dealer did have vb and it was from his leads when we conncted up different leads it went away and the pj was perfect, it can also be the power lead running near the signal leads.what i do is run the power for the pj from a different switch in the theatre room then from another switch i use for the dvd player etc to make sure i have no problems. hope this might help

HiHoStevo, thanks for raising those points.

As to the low light output of the HS51, that would not be a problem with my coffee table setup and a 2.7 gain screen. After I bought the 10HT, t took Bill Cushman two years to convince me to get a DaLite retroreflective High Power screen. I should have ordered one the first time he suggested it. For me, there are lots of advantages to the retroreflective screen.

As to the 'horrid' SDE, I find it hard to imagine that it would be worse than it was on my 10HT. It is true that the HS51 has fewer pixels then the 10HT, but I have to imagine that in the ensueing years, Sony made at least marginal improvements in this regard. Maybe I am wrong. Anyway, SDE never bothered me at 1.8 screen widths back with the 10HT.

You are right that each has to make their own tradeoffs and that can be particularly difficult for those buying their first PJ. I found the SDE I had much less noticeable then the VB I now have. I think that the VB bothers me more because it is a macro-artifact in comparison to SDE.

The other thing about the HS51 and SDE is that at least it is pretty much the same on each and every HS51. If you demo an HS51 at a dealer or a friend's house and then buy one, you are going to have exactly the same screen door effect as on the PJ you demo'd. The same can't be said of VB on the AE900.

Thanks again for raising a couple of points that definitely needed mentioning.

I already have the 900 on it's own power source, not connected to anything else. By the way, has anyone else noticed the wierd flickery line through the middle of the flicker tweak image. Just wondering what's up with that. Also, has anyone had VB go away with time, or will it pretty much stay as new?

Jacob I can definitely agree that it is a real pain that the Panny is not more consistent. It should not be such a "crap-shoot" as to whether a person gets a projector with VB or any other defect for that matter....

Sure there are always going to be a certain number of units that have "issues" with any manufacturer, but it certainly seems that there is a lot more discussion of VB on the 900 than makes me feel warm and fuzzy!

I am wanting something to do an excellent job at a reasonable price while I wait for the next year to roll by... I think we are going to see lots of "neat stuff" next year and the price points are only going to get better!

So I am trolling the forums trying to figure out what I can get for my new house (house up for sale has my BenQ 8700+ that I have put 1900 hours on) that I can live with, but still not drop to large a wad on. Personally I find SDE to be one of my "hot button" items that I just cannot live with... also I love BIG screens.

So which demons work out best for me remain to be seen... (oh did I mention that I am "frugal" the "c" word I don't think really fits..., but I do like to get my money's worth).

Perhaps I can find a retailer that will open the box and fire up the projector for me to check for VB before it is shipped....???

I already have the 900 on it's own power source, not connected to anything else. By the way, has anyone else noticed the wierd flickery line through the middle of the flicker tweak image. Just wondering what's up with that. Also, has anyone had VB go away with time, or will it pretty much stay as new?


Just curious, - Is this line apparent throughout the adjust range of primary? Is it apparent on all primaries? Can you see it on the white field of the service menu?

ted

I am no expert but I have to wonder if some people have VB (Not that I'm total certain what vb really is) issues and such due to the type of connection,quality of cables and other DVD players being used. Maybe I'm to much of a newbie but I have wathed 14 hours on my pj ae 900 and have been more than impressed with the pic, my blacks ( just watched March of the Penguins) and can see no other issue within the pic like maybe vb. This can make you think that maybe its not one good an one not as good pj from Pan but reather the many differant setups and variables we all have. I happen to use a decent Sony Progressive scan DVD player with black enhancment and the bhest quality component cables I could find. Maybe it's just my pj but maybe it just happens to be hapenstance of my combined equipment and cables that is making the differance. anyways certainly only my 2 cents worth.

Some observations on the AE900.

The smile is still there and the more I play with this proj, the more I like it.


The quality of the source content does make a big difference. The Incredibles was INCREDIBLE and a couple of 4:3 live concert videos were only so-so. Using the zoom stretch on the ae900 with a Panamorph 572 allowed me to watch some 2:35 movies in fully scope mode on a 40x92 2:35 screen.

What a treat. SDE?? heck no.. smooth as silk.

The lens shift is very nice and useful. I have only noted very minor mis-convergence of the panels. From what I see, Its more likely the lens causing the mis-convergence due to chromatic abberation than pixel misalignment. Suddenly I can clearly tell that owen young was looking at real sheet music on the James Taylor concert video.. I could see it pretty clearly...

One stuck pixel shining pale green, only visible in a completely dark moment at the very left edge of the display.. not bad.. not perfect, but definitely livable.

I think I see some extremely faint vb but it doesnt bother me at all. Its more likely my DIY screen made from acoustically transparent grill cloth as described in a different screen thread. No moire either from the display interacting with the micro-sized weave pattern of the speaker grill cloth. Its totally special to hear the sound of the center channel coming from behind the screen. It helps to immerse you in the movie..

The Avia DVD color tests showed that the projector was fairly close to correct basic setup out of the box. messing around with the gamma, contrast and brightness on greyscales got the projector even closer. I wish I had a colorimeter to mess around with... I think this proj can get close to grey nirvana. The only color difficulties that bother me is that fleshtones have just slightly green shadows, indicating a need to tweak the contrast and brightness around the low green levels.

The resolution tests on the Avia disk were awesome to behold as they were just there, sharp as a tack.

Interestingly with the OPP 971 dvd player, I didnt notice a huge difference with component(almost 50 ft long) and DVI(only 10 meters). The stretching options on the AE900 definitely change with the input. To be sure, I'll need an outboard scaler to get the precise 2:35 on the screen. The panny stretch got it close but the THX earth at the beginning of Incredibles was slightly verticaly oblate, matching the fact that the scope image was not precisely matching my screen masked area.

The blacks are what I expected from an LCD projector, not quite as nice as DLP, but it still looks very nice.

Overall the projector is definitely awesome for the price.

Thanks to this list, I think I got more that I ever expected for the investment.

Back to more phun!! There are movies to watch.....!!

:)

If I have a 106'' screen and an 8' ceiling (and the top of the screen is 10'' below the ceiling on the wall), how far back and how low should I mount the projector from the ceiling for optimal image quality? I was thinking 14' back and hanging 10'' from the ceiling. Would anyone recommend a better set-up given the screen size and ceiling height--asuming one is going to mount the projector from the ceiling. ALso, does anyone have experience with this type of set-up? What are your impressions? By the way, my screen is a GW. Thank you for your help!

Just curious, - Is this line apparent throughout the adjust range of primary? Is it apparent on all primaries? Can you see it on the white field of the service menu?

ted

That's the strange thing, it's only visible when using the flicker menu, in all primary colors. No other time. I was just curious since my old unit didn't do this. It almost looks like the panel is somehow divided in half above and below the shaky line seem slightly different shades. Again only in the flicker menu. I just wonder what this does that causes that. I don't see it in video, but just wonder if it's some type of problem, since the old unit didn't do this. By the way, how do you bring up a white field in the service menu. I'm trying to see if the VB get any better over time, I'll give it a few days.

Just forget what I wrote, now the flicker menu looks perfectly normal. Who knows, I switched power outlets just to see if it helped VB, perhaps something strange was going on. By the way, the VB is exatly the same, I was hoping. What's bad is now I have a PJ with near perfect convergence, if someone could just tell me the VB will go away after a 100 hours or so I would be happy.

Does using Vertical and Horizontal position controls degrade picture?

When I use the joystick to adjust the picture to fit the screen, I have a small about of keystone, with the bottom being slightly wider than the top. When watching DVD's, this is not at all noticeable, but when watching 4:3 SD TV, it is noticeable due to the sidebars.

This is a very small amount, such that changing keystone to -1 fixes it. However, it is clear that even going from 0 to -1 keystone that the picture degrades. This is very obvious when looking at the DirecTivo now playing list. When keystone correction is engaged, the program names look like they are slightly out of focus.

So, I was wondering if I could use the Joystick to move the LCD panels to take care of some of the vertical correction and use the Vertical position controls to take care of the rest.

When looking at the Tivo list (program names/text) the picture quality does not seem to degrade when using the vertical position adjustment. Is this ok, or am I missing something with using this option?

Thanks

I received a new 900 today and am having a problem with a slight, but annoying, ghosting effect, most noticeable around people, as well as a bit of a small swirling effect in some areas like around graphics at the begining of a movie.

I just got my 900 setup with my new Carada 119" BW screen (cudos to Carada) and also noticed a slight ghosting to the left of some images, such as faces with very light/sunny backgrounds behind them. I also noticed some images where there might be something bright behind a face or person (such as vertical blinds that had light shining on them) that seem to bleed through the image in front, such as the persons face.

I noticed both with SD DirecTV (S-Video) and watching the Island DVD (Component).

I just got my 900 setup with my new Carada 119" BW screen (cudos to Carada) and also noticed a slight ghosting to the left of some images, such as faces with very light/sunny backgrounds behind them. I also noticed some images where there might be something bright behind a face or person (such as vertical blinds that had light shining on them) that seem to bleed through the image in front, such as the persons face.

I noticed both with SD DirecTV (S-Video) and watching the Island DVD (Component).

Have you done a setup with the Avia disk?

I seem to remember in the Avia commentary that this is a result of too much sharpening.

If you have not done a calibration using Avia I would suggest you try that, if you do not have Avia, try reducing the sharpness control and see if that makes a difference.... failing that I would use the settings that MikeSRC has in the "tweak" thread for a 900 without filter and use those as your starting point.

Well for those who don't know what Vertical Banding looks like here you go. This is from my 900u when I first got it before I did some tweaks to the panel. I think I have reduced it somewhat b/c ever since then I don't notice it as much or hardly at all.

Close to 200 hours on the lamp and still going strong!

Steve.

Have you done a setup with the Avia disk?

I seem to remember in the Avia commentary that this is a result of too much sharpening.

If you have not done a calibration using Avia I would suggest you try that, if you do not have Avia, try reducing the sharpness control and see if that makes a difference.... failing that I would use the settings that MikeSRC has in the "tweak" thread for a 900 without filter and use those as your starting point.

I cannot find my Avia disc (going to borrow one from a friend in a few days). I did find my Sound & Vision disc, which is made by the Avia people. In Cinema1, the sharpness is already almost as low as it will go (on two clicks lower). It looks correct looking at the sharpness grid.

I will try and find MikeSRC's tweak.

This may be a little premature, but I have not noticed any bulb issues on this thread. Knock on wood!

I have just over 100 hours now, and would imagine that many people have put on 3 or 4 times that much.

Any bulb comments?

Dear all,
first of all I want to congratulate all of you for your tremendous work and passion. Cause I am a new member here I don't know if you already covered the problem that I will explain now:
Looking a demostration about Pany 900 I realized that something is going wrong about it's converange. When the menu was active and it's thin white lines appeared at screen I could see that these lines weren't solid white but looking from left to right I saw a light green shadow, white line and last a magenta shadow. I asked from the demo room owner to feed the projector with CrossHatch signal from a setup DVD and the result was the same. From my point of view since I am an Electronic Engineer with lot of repair experience this is a major converange issue. I dont't know if this problem was only to the specific item or Panasonic with Smooth Screen feauture has this behaviour in all of her projectors. Unfortunately I couldn't find another one to compare. So, I would appreciate the opinion of Pany 900 owners.
Thank you all for your attention.
Regards,
John
P.S. If this issue already answered please post the link to the topic and forget my poor English...

Jpaudio, I believe the problem you describe could be caused by panel misalignment. I have a AE900 and I don't have the convergence issue. This issue has been reported before. I would suggest that the projector in question be send in for repairs or exchange.

I think a little misconverging is normal. In my case i have to be with my face up against the screen to see it. From viewing distance it's non existant. I also noticed slight vertical banding when filling my screen with 1 light color, but again, I have to look for it, it's gone from proper viewing distance, especially when watching movies.

Dear all,
first of all I want to congratulate all of you for your tremendous work and passion. Cause I am a new member here I don't know if you already covered the problem that I will explain now:
Looking a demostration about Pany 900 I realized that something is going wrong about it's converange. When the menu was active and it's thin white lines appeared at screen I could see that these lines weren't solid white but looking from left to right I saw a light green shadow, white line and last a magenta shadow. I asked from the demo room owner to feed the projector with CrossHatch signal from a setup DVD and the result was the same. From my point of view since I am an Electronic Engineer with lot of repair experience this is a major converange issue. I dont't know if this problem was only to the specific item or Panasonic with Smooth Screen feauture has this behaviour in all of her projectors. Unfortunately I couldn't find another one to compare. So, I would appreciate the opinion of Pany 900 owners.
Thank you all for your attention.
Regards,
John
P.S. If this issue already answered please post the link to the topic and forget my poor English...


Yes, that is completely normal, you aren't going to get better than a shadow. If you see a separate color line when looking at the menus, you have a problem, but only a little off is actually good in my opinion from what I've seen. By the way, I'll have to take some pictures of my VB, it's worse than the previous picture and that's after my tweaking. Perhaps I'm retarded at tweaking the panels. Any suggestions?

4 mm


Thanks Mike, does anyone know the thread pitch (ie. .7mm - metric m4) or the depth of the screw holes?

Hey guys, I'm really excited to finally install my panny for good--but before I start drilling a bunch of holes, I'd love some feedback about where I'm installing it: If I have a 106'' screen and an 8' ceiling (and the top of the screen is 10'' below the ceiling on the wall), how far back and how low should I mount the projector from the ceiling for optimal image quality? I was thinking 14' back and hanging 10'' from the ceiling. Would anyone recommend a better set-up given the screen size and ceiling height--asuming one is going to mount the projector from the ceiling. ALso, does anyone have experience with this type of set-up? What are your impressions? By the way, my screen is a GW. Thank you for your help!

Does using Vertical and Horizontal position controls degrade picture?


Using maximum vertical lens shift will cause some convergence problems and bowing of the bottom of the image, horizontal doesn't seem to be as bad. I recommend keeping the projector within the vertical height limits of your screen to avoid these issues.

Thanks Mike, does anyone know the thread pitch (ie. .7mm - metric m4) or the depth of the screw holes?

M4. I don't recall the depth, but figure on around 5-6 mm.

Mis-convergence: Some have a little, some a lot and others none at all. VB: Some have a little, some a lot and others none at all. Is the takeaway here that QC is inconsistent on this projector?

I don't think there is a QC problem with the projector. I have spoken to several dealers and have been told that there have been few returns. Obviously with a new unit there will be a few units that might have problems. The best thing to do is to test your unit for convergence, VB & dead pixels during the first hour. I would also make sure that the dealer will accept a return if you have a problem.

Ok, I've got it. For the first time in 30 months my x1 has come off the ceiling. I've got it shooting a 100in screen from a table top for this morning. problem 1 is that my dyi painted screen is only 80inch so it's hitting light green wall as well :D

Initial reactions - the good: (normal, low lamp, dark grey screen)

NO VB that I can see (HD-net workout show with bright blue carribean sky in the background, no texture at all.

NO pixels at all. I am 2 feet from the screen as I type this with Day After Tomorrow (hey, it's all that's on HD) with a bright white snow field, even walking right up to the screen, I there isn't even a hint of pixel structure.

No convergence issues - white text on black background betrays not a hint of blue or red.

the bad:

keep in mind that this is during the day and my room is not fully light controlled, but ANSI contrast is not particularly impressive - seeming no better then my x1 under the same conditions., same for black detail (not black levels, black is very black) but details/contrast in dark scenes - clearly I need to adjust, these are just initial reactions.

Color is too good - it's like a crt set with the "color" adjustment turned all the way up. Greens in a discoveryHD nature scene preview are actually crushed. yellow is bright as well (a couple of HD net shots of the sun made me feel like I was actually looking at the sun) keep in mind this is on a dark grey, minimal gain screen. Reds are too strong too, every skin tone looks flushed, almost dingy.

Focus seems odd, some things crystal clear, others blurred, not worried yet as I have it in temporary location.

the ugly:

this is going to be an interesting conversation with V/A on Monday - when looking at the lens with the PJ on the light path shows a pattern on the inside of the lens that looks too much like etching to be anything else (though I am open to suggestions) - it's sort of a sharp defined vertical slash with a jagged burr pattern moving off to the left. I don't know how this could have made it past quality control, or exactly what it's doing to the picture, but it is a unsettling thing to see on a $2k optical device you've just purchased. I've taken pictures, if it shows up on them I will post them, wanted to post this first.

This is the best, blurry picture I can get right now - can't get the dame dslr to focus on the lens and can't take a good manual shot - will play with it more later

center top of the light path, the blurred shape is actually a disturbingly distinct mark when viewed in person.

This is the best, blurry picture I can get right now - can't get the dame dslr to focus on the lens and can't take a good manual shot - will play with it more later

center top of the light path, the blurred shape is actually a disturbingly distinct mark when viewed in person.
Unless you've got macro mode, you're too close to the object being photographed. Try backing up - and zooming in.

Unless you've got macro mode, you're too close to the object being photographed. Try backing up - and zooming in.

canon dig rebel xt, does have macro mode, any suggestions on settings to try?

canon dig rebel xt, does have macro mode, any suggestions on settings to try?
Alas, I have never used macro mode; I only know what it's purpose is. Try the m-a-n-u-a-l. :)

Or try holding the camera further from the object being photographed (th pj lens). If you slightly press the shutter button, the camera will auto focus and indicate success visually (with a light) and/or audibly. My Canon Pro Shot 1 will give me a green light and some sort of beep when it's auto-focused, and an orange light (and some other sort of beep) when it's failed and has given up trying. For my camera, auto-focus fails at about 24" - 30" - regardless of the zoom setting. So I just back off a bit and everything is copacetic.

Hey guys, I'm really excited to finally install my panny for good--but before I start drilling a bunch of holes, I'd love some feedback about where I'm installing it: If I have a 106'' screen and an 8' ceiling (and the top of the screen is 10'' below the ceiling on the wall), how far back and how low should I mount the projector from the ceiling for optimal image quality? I was thinking 14' back and hanging 10'' from the ceiling. Would anyone recommend a better set-up given the screen size and ceiling height--asuming one is going to mount the projector from the ceiling. ALso, does anyone have experience with this type of set-up? What are your impressions? By the way, my screen is a GW. Thank you for your help!

The closer to the middle of the screen the better. My setup 119" - 13.5' throw) has the projector below the top off the screen, but when I use the joystick to lower the image I get a smaill amout of flaring/keystoning where the lower part of the image is slightly wider than the top. If you have the top of the screen and projector both 10" below the ceiling, you will probably experience the same problem.

If you are only going to be watching HDTV or movies, you will never notice it, however, if you are going to watch 4:3 TV with sidebars, it is noticeable.

Using maximum vertical lens shift will cause some convergence problems and bowing of the bottom of the image, horizontal doesn't seem to be as bad. I recommend keeping the projector within the vertical height limits of your screen to avoid these issues.


I meant using the digital vertical position setting in the picture menu, as an alternative to using as much lens shift.

I meant using the digital vertical position setting in the picture menu, as an alternative to using as much lens shift.
Generally, using digital keystone correction is to be avoided.

.

So, I was wondering if I could use the Joystick to move the LCD panels to take care of some of the vertical correction and use the Vertical position controls to take care of the rest.

Thanks

This may have been answered, but no - this only affects lens shift.

Are you sure your unit is square, plumb and level to the screen?

ted

Interestingly with the OPP 971 dvd player, I didnt notice a huge difference with component(almost 50 ft long) and DVI(only 10 meters). The stretching options on the AE900 definitely change with the input. To be sure, I'll need an outboard scaler to get the precise 2:35 on the screen. The panny stretch got it close but the THX earth at the beginning of Incredibles was slightly verticaly oblate, matching the fact that the scope image was not precisely matching my screen masked area.


A scaler is a good idea for 2.35 if you wish to use an external 720p source. The internal ZOOM mode for aspect control only works in 480 modes so you are not deriving the benefits of the OPPO's scaling.

ted

I noticed both with SD DirecTV (S-Video) and watching the Island DVD (Component).

Both these sources are ANALOG and thus subject to analog issues such as ringing which might be caused by cable length. The 900 like my 700 is likely over enhanced in the SHARPNESS setting - reducing might help. The sources you mentioned are Video, hence deinterlacing and scaling could be a factor.

As to S-Video, if you can avoid it, do so, as you are not getting the best quality available from source. I is not much better than Composite.

ted

HiHoStevo, I wouldn't bother trying to find a dealer that will open up the box and evaluate the PJ for you. For one thing, that is going to be a lot of time on the phone; for another, how is someone else supposed to decide if you are going to be satisfied? Just buy it somewhere where you can return it if you are not happy.

CP429, have you considered buying a calibration DVD? When setting up my AE900 with Digital Video Essentials, different sources required different settings. And on top of that, there are likely unit-to-unit differences between AE900s. I am not certain that plugging in someone else's setting is the way to go.

jsm88, have you considered going to Canon's website and downloading the manual to find out how to use the macro mode? I am assuming that you do not have, or cannot locate, a hard copy of the manual. Was your PJ visually calibrated using a calibration DVD before you made you comments on initial picture quality? If not, why bother posting them?

rwestley, yes, folk should buy from a dealer that will take a return without a large restocking fee. I bought mine from an AVS sponsor who had glowing feedback on Projector Central, yet was unable to reach an accomodation with the vendor when I saw VB that I thought might well be a long term issue.

It is very hard to ascertain whether a particular PJ really has a QC problem based upon the postings on an AVS thread. That being said, between cine4home's review and the experiences of a few on this thread, I think it particularly important to make sure that you buy from a vendor that will take a return.

I don't want to encourage folk to be hyper-sensitive to VB. There is certainly a level below which VB is not going to interfere with viewing. I am dissappointed that after nine years of projector viewing on three different PJ's and making a sincere effort to try and determine if I could live with the VB I have, I cannot get satisfaction from a well regarded AVS sposor.

I am no expert but I have to wonder if some people have VB (Not that I'm total certain what vb really is) issues and such due to the type of connection,quality of cables and other DVD players being used.

It is always best to drive your display with the finest quality equipment you can afford as this will minimize many side issues. However the source of VB is derived form the Analog nature of the drive and addressing schemes inherent to LCD (SONY panels seem to do a much better job than EPSON's) as I outlined in a posting earlier in this thread, here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6673109&&#post6673109).

I apologise for being the pompous ass and being self-referential.
ted

I think a little misconverging is normal. In my case i have to be with my face up against the screen to see it. From viewing distance it's non existant. I also noticed slight vertical banding when filling my screen with 1 light color, but again, I have to look for it, it's gone from proper viewing distance, especially when watching movies.

It might be interesting for people to see what convergence tolerances are acceptable from a broadcast studio perspective - many might be surprised and appalled at what we get away with. :eek:

ted

I'm working on calibrating my AE900 and have an odd issue. I just got my screen installed (DaLite HighPower) and a new DVD player that I have hooked up via HDMI. When I display the image to the screen it is not square. When the top is square to the screen (and the sides) the bottom of the image gets bigger as the image goes towards the right. I'd say the bottom right is about 1.5" lower than the bottom left? I haven't changed any settings on the projector, and am wondering if anyone else has seen this. I haven't been keeping up with this thread for awhile now, but hoping that someone can help me with this. Thanks.

jcg

jsm88, have you considered going to Canon's website and downloading the manual to find out how to use the macro mode? I am assuming that you do not have, or cannot locate, a hard copy of the manual. Was your PJ at least visually calibrated using a calibration DVD before you made you comments on initial picture quality? If not, why bother posting them? In any event, I suggest you do so before calling V/A.

Wow, well, let's see, I know how to use macro mode, just not getting a great shot - the reflections on the lens, combined with it's transparancy, make it difficult to autofocus on, and I'm just not that good a photographer - didn't know whether one of the experts here could give some advice,

Now, on your second "point" - No, this was out-of-the box performance - the same performance a number of reviews posted here have used to measure the projector, and I said as much. Making the point that the VB/convergence/SD problems were not problems for this one. Never said I was calling V/A for any picture issues, but for the big SCRATCH on the inside of the lens. If you can't see why folks bother posting their initial impressions, I suggest you don't read them, or at least refrain from commenting on them.

keep in mind that this is during the day and my room is not fully light controlled, but ANSI contrast is not particularly impressive - seeming no better then my x1 under the same conditions., same for black detail (not black levels, black is very black) but details/contrast in dark scenes - clearly I need to adjust, these are just initial reactions.

A "Political Hack" should know better than to reveal your subject in the glare of day. :p
Black detail will only get better as the walls darken. ANSI should be measured in a dark room. Get out the paint or at least the curtains. ;)

this is going to be an interesting conversation with V/A on Monday - when looking at the lens with the PJ on the light path shows a pattern on the inside of the lens that looks too much like etching to be anything else (though I am open to suggestions) - it's sort of a sharp defined vertical slash with a jagged burr pattern moving off to the left. I don't know how this could have made it past quality control, or exactly what it's doing to the picture, but it is a unsettling thing to see on a $2k optical device you've just purchased. I've taken pictures, if it shows up on them I will post them, wanted to post this first.

So this not the normal dust-like imperfections that you can see in the lens?

ted

jcg, lens shift will not help with geometric distortion caused by the projector not being aligned with the screen. If your image is slightly larger on the right than on the left (an instance of horizontal keystoning), rotate the projector away from the larger side a little bit and use the lens shift to recenter the image on the screen. This should solve your problem. You may also need to adjust the front feet to get a level image.

In my case, I had to put a piece of carboard under the rear support to eliminate a small amount of vertical keystoning (the top of the image was slightly wider than the bottom). It is probably the case that this was caused by my coffee table not being quite level - having a slight downward tilt.

This is the best, blurry picture I can get right now - can't get the dame dslr to focus on the lens and can't take a good manual shot - will play with it more later

center top of the light path, the blurred shape is actually a disturbingly distinct mark when viewed in person.

I see it. I see it. - Could it be the back element needs cleaning? If it is visible on a coloured field with text I would take it back as it will possibly affect sharness.

ted

A "Political Hack" should know better than to reveal your subject in the glare of day. :p
Black detail will only get better as the walls darken. ANSI should be measured in a dark room. Get out the paint or at least the curtains. ;)

yup, I guess the revelation here for me is that no pj, no matter how bright, is going to have great ansi contrast in any kind of significant ambient light conditions, even with the help of a dark shaded screen.



So this not the normal dust-like imperfections that you can see in the lens?

ted

No, I spent a good ten minutes staring at it, trying to convince myself it was anything but what it looked like. I am going right now to take another shot at photographing it. If it's dust, it's the oddest looking dust I've ever seen.

I see it. I see it. - Could it be the back element needs cleaning? If it is visible on a coloured field with text I would take it back as it will possibly affect sharness.

ted

that's what I'm worried about. If it were possible do you think I could clean the back element myself (how do I get to it?) Frankly, given that this pj is otherwise devoid of the out of the box problems others have seen with it I would hate to have to send it back, I'd swap out the lenses if that was user possible.

Those of you with VB....

Have you tried powering off the unit from the mains - in other words, not leaving it in the Standby PJ off mode? It was a trick that some of us used with our 700's and it seemed to work. When we powered the PJ on again, VB was not as perceptible and seemed to disappear for all intents within 1/2 hour. I used to run mine for about 1/2 hr before viewing.

As to why this worked - Ah dunno - though I'm sure I could make something up. ;)

ted

jsm88, there are two problems with trying to take a macro shot of your PJ lens. One, in macro mode, you are going to have a very limited depth of field. Try shooting with a larger f-stop. Two, the autofocus mechanism is going to have a hard time figuring out what to focus on. You might consider using manual focus. Alternativeley, you can place an object on the same plane as that which you wish to be in focus beside the lens, focus lock on the object, then take the picture of the lens.
Now, on your second "point" - No, this was out-of-the box performance - the same performance a number of reviews posted here have used to measure the projector, and I said as much. Making the point that the VB/convergence/SD problems were not problems for this one. Never said I was calling V/A for any picture issues, but for the big SCRATCH on the inside of the lens. If you can't see why folks bother posting their initial impressions, I suggest you don't read them, or at least refrain from commenting on them.

I guess I just don't understand the point of describing out of the box color and contrast performance before doing a visual calibration. Even artifacts may become more or less visible after a PJ is calibrated. Convergence can be commented upon without calibration, but SDE may become slightly more or less visible after calibration. Anyway, best of luck resolving your lens issue and my apologies for being a bit surly.

I had a horrible VB problem with my Panny 900 and all I did was go to the panel adjust menu and adjust each color til it disappeared. It was bad on both blue and green and it's totally gone now. And the flicker test eliminated a couple of other artifacts as well. It was amazing to watch the verticle bands disappear from the panels as I adjusted them. I'm surprised Panasonic didn't include instructions in the manual on how to use these two critical adjustments. Would have saved me a lot of phone calls and anxiety.

Elio

tvted, a couple of times I left the unit unplugged overnight and it had no impact on the VB.

Wow, well, let's see, I know how to use macro mode, just not getting a great shot - the reflections on the lens, combined with it's transparancy, make it difficult to autofocus on, and I'm just not that good a photographer - didn't know whether one of the experts here could give some advice,
Though I'm replying, I'm definitely not an expert. "Ex" = former, "spurt" = a drip under pressure. Hmmm, a former drip under pressure . . . maybe I *am* an expert. :)

This may be moot at this point, but I think it is necessary to focus manually in macro mode.

I had a horrible VB problem with my Panny 900 and all I did was go to the panel adjust menu and adjust each color til it disappeared. It was bad on both blue and green and it's totally gone now. And the flicker test eliminated a couple of other artifacts as well. It was amazing to watch the verticle bands disappear from the panels as I adjusted them. I'm surprised Panasonic didn't include instructions in the manual on how to use these two critical adjustments.
Or better yet, have made the adjustments during testing before shipping.

Or better yet, have made the adjustments during testing before shipping.
Yeah. But the adjustments do work for some of the PJs

Thanks for the advice, man. focus seems to be the only option, was hoping that the machine could do better, as you can see from this posted image, I still can't quite get it in focus.

these are the two best shots I can get - you can see all the usual dust spots, this doesn't look anything like them. It is definitely on the inside of the main lens.

eliocon, Panel Adjust seemed to be optimal on my unit. I was unable to improve the VB by changning it. I found that the flicker adjust did nothing to improve the VB. Disconnecting the machine from power did nothing to make it better. Trying several different sources and cables, and making sure that signal cables were not near power cables did nothing to make it better.

My conclusion is that some of these PJ's have enough VB to be noticeable while viewing and that the VB cannot always be tweaked away. Cine4home's review of the PJ also seems to indicate that some of these units have enough VB to interfere with viewing.

That is weird seeing reduced VB and flicker when I powered the unit off and took the plug out for an overnighter. To my surprise it worked. It did not clear it but it reduced the levels from where I had them before....Weird.

Can some nice person tell me what the other settings do in the service panel?

Thanks,

Steve.

OK, silly me. I had the projector on a wall mount swivel table and it looked like it was square to the projector but since the table swivels & rotates it was not. A bit of adjusting of the table, lens shift and feet as you suggested now has a perfectly square picture. Thanks.

Now onto the next step. I have the DVE disk and will shortly attempt my first calibration (oh boy!) on my first projector. Any suggestions on basic setup would be appreciated. I currently have it on PictureMode=Normal, with NR=ON, CinemaReality=ON, lamp=LOW, and DynamicIris=ON. Should any of this be changed to start with?

Also my DVD player has IRE set to 0. Is this what the Panny wants? Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions. I have the DVD player going to the Panny via HDMI in case that makes any difference.

jcg

jcg, lens shift will not help with geometric distortion caused by the projector not being aligned with the screen. If your image is slightly larger on the right than on the left (an instance of horizontal keystoning), rotate the projector away from the larger side a little bit and use the lens shift to recenter the image on the screen. This should solve your problem. You may also need to adjust the front feet to get a level image.

In my case, I had to put a piece of carboard under the rear support to eliminate a small amount of vertical keystoning (the top of the image was slightly wider than the bottom). It is probably the case that this was caused by my coffee table not being quite level - having a slight downward tilt.

Thanks for the advice, man. focus seems to be the only option, was hoping that the machine could do better, as you can see from this posted image, I still can't quite get it in focus.

these are the two best shots I can get - you can see all the usual dust spots, this doesn't look anything like them. It is definitely on the inside of the main lens.
Your second shot is pretty good. Generally, you've run into the limited depth of field thing; the outside of the lens seems to be crisply focused, but going inside toward the light source it starts to fuzz out.

It almost looks like it's on the inside of the lens. Or is it elsewhere and being projected onto the lens?

that's what I'm worried about. If it were possible do you think I could clean the back element myself (how do I get to it?) Frankly, given that this pj is otherwise devoid of the out of the box problems others have seen with it I would hate to have to send it back, I'd swap out the lenses if that was user possible.

This is from the 700 Service Manual which I believe is consistent with the 900.

6.10. Removal of Analysis Block and Projection Lens
1. Remove the lamp unit according to the section 6.9. "Removal of Lamp Unit".
2. Remove the A-P.C.Board block according to the steps 1 through 3 in the section
6.3. "Removal of A-P.C.Board".
3. Unscrew the 2 screws and release the lamp unit terminal.
4. Unscrew the 1 screw and remove the thermofuse attachment.
5. Unscrew the 3 screws and remove the lamphouse.
6. Unscrew the 3 screws and remove the block of Analysis Block, LCD Block and
Projection Lens Block.
7. Unscrew the 2 screws and remove the LCD block.
8. Unscrew the 4 screws and remove the projection lens block (with shift
mechanism).

6.12. Removal of Projection Lens
1. Remove the projection lens block according to the steps 1 through 8 in the
section 6.10. "Removal of Analysis Block and Projection Lens".
2. Unscrew the 4 screws and separate the projection lens and the shift mechanism.

T'would'nt be fun.

I've attached a pic. which shows what happens.
Since this is a new device with a warranty - make *them* fix it. Lense's shouldn't have smudges or scratches that are inaccessible by the user in my opinion - even at this quality level.

I've tried to get a service kit (a set of cables) from P. Canada to futz with my convergence but they don't want to sell it to me. They *don't* want us opening these units I'd gather.

ted

It almost looks like it's on the inside of the lens. Or is it elsewhere and being projected onto the lens?

yeah, when the pj is off you can barely see the sharper verticle bit, so I feel pretty certain it's right there on the inside of the main lens rather then being projected from further in.

Thanks ted, this is a great help - I assume you have a copy of the service manual - they certainly didn't have that in the users man. I build my own computers and gadgets so that doesn't sound too scary, though I think I'll wait until I can get the V/Apex folks on Monday to make sure their comfortable with that course of action(warranty and all that).

jcg, I calibrated using Cinema 1. It has slightly better D65 tracking than Normal. I guess that it comes down to whether you need/want the extra light output you will get from Normal. I have a high gain screen and did not want the extra output. I am running my bulb on low.

The only advice I might offer is to let your eyes acclimate to the low light level in your theater for a few minutes before calibrating and let the machine warm up for a good half hour before doing it.

As to the black setting on the DVD player, I haven't used a DVD player for input in quite a while and have forgotten what that setting does. Perhaps someone else can comment.

jsm88, I agree with tvted, let them fix it. I have built a few hundred PC's, enough to know that sometimes stuff happens. If I had a unit that otherwise was cherry, I would also want a repair rather than a replacement. The only two questions are whether Panasonic will consider this a defect worthy of warranty repair (hopefully the answer is yes with an obvious obstruction in the light path) and the turn-around time.

yup, I guess the revelation here for me is that no pj, no matter how bright, is going to have great ansi contrast in any kind of significant ambient light conditions, even with the help of a dark shaded screen.


People forget that black levels are such a small percentage of 100 IRE that even a small amount of light might double, triple, or more black levels while having no perceivable impact at all on whites.

The lesson is to give your friends black cloth to enrobe themselves in before entering the shrine that is you HT. ;)

You've a PM btw.

ted

I had a horrible VB problem with my Panny 900 and all I did was go to the panel adjust menu and adjust each color til it disappeared. It was bad on both blue and green and it's totally gone now. And the flicker test eliminated a couple of other artifacts as well. It was amazing to watch the verticle bands disappear from the panels as I adjusted them. I'm surprised Panasonic didn't include instructions in the manual on how to use these two critical adjustments. Would have saved me a lot of phone calls and anxiety.

Elio

Well I sure wish you could tell me the magic touch you used to eliminate it. I've tweaked and tested for an hour, and could not eliminate the problem. If fact it really didn't seem to make that much difference. It seems my choice is either tight banding, or wider banding. And my problem seem to pretty much just be the green panel. Any change this will go away as the unit ages? At least it's not the green and blue like my last 900. By the way, does anyone else notice the image darkens a bit in the bottom left corner, I have max horizontal shift, so that might cause it. My 4805 used to do this some too.

Both these sources are ANALOG and thus subject to analog issues such as ringing which might be caused by cable length. The 900 like my 700 is likely over enhanced in the SHARPNESS setting - reducing might help. The sources you mentioned are Video, hence deinterlacing and scaling could be a factor.

As to S-Video, if you can avoid it, do so, as you are not getting the best quality available from source. I is not much better than Composite.

ted

Wish I could. The best video out on my DirecTivo is S-video, and the best video out on my Sony DVD Jukebox is Component.

I am thinking about getting the HD DirecTivo, which I believe has HDMI out, which means I will have to mess with running a cable up a wall, through the attic and back down another wall. :mad:

Tned

Trust me the HD-Tivo is worth it.... and beside DTV is running some pretty good specials. Call Customer Retention and ask for Diane. If you have not had any rebates this year they can give you a mail-in rebate, an instant (customer retention) rebate, and discount on premium channels. All in all a worthwhile proposition (IMHO), I just got my 2nd one!

Besides the digital video signal seems much cleaner..., but I am sure I could start a debate with that claim :-)

Tned

Trust me the HD-Tivo is worth it.... and beside DTV is running some pretty good specials. Call Customer Retention and ask for Diane. If you have not had any rebates this year they can give you a mail-in rebate, an instant (customer retention) rebate, and discount on premium channels. All in all a worthwhile proposition (IMHO), I just got my 2nd one!

Besides the digital video signal seems much cleaner..., but I am sure I could start a debate with that claim :-)

Yea, that's my plan. I was waiting until I had my 900 up and was sure I was keeping it. I read about some of the deals on TivoCommunity, along with the fact that eventually it appears they will upgrade them with Mpeg4 machines down the road.

The only reason I am hesitating at all is that I have about 75-100 ft of buried cable (buried when I had a sprinkler system installed) to my dish, but only have two cables buried, not the four I need for HD. Don't feel like digging a trench myself, and doubt the installer will do it. Once I figure out how to get the extra cable in the ground, I am going to get the box.

Is the flicker adjust supposed to be done before calibration (with DVE in my case) or after calibration?

jcg

Well I sure wish you could tell me the magic touch you used to eliminate it. I've tweaked and tested for an hour, and could not eliminate the problem. If fact it really didn't seem to make that much difference. It seems my choice is either tight banding, or wider banding. And my problem seem to pretty much just be the green panel. Any change this will go away as the unit ages? At least it's not the green and blue like my last 900. By the way, does anyone else notice the image darkens a bit in the bottom left corner, I have max horizontal shift, so that might cause it. My 4805 used to do this some too.

Guys

Can you recommend a DVD player for use with this projector ? Is also HDMi the better connection that component video for this projector? Thanks for inputs.

Yea, that's my plan. I was waiting until I had my 900 up and was sure I was keeping it. I read about some of the deals on TivoCommunity, along with the fact that eventually it appears they will upgrade them with Mpeg4 machines down the road.

The only reason I am hesitating at all is that I have about 75-100 ft of buried cable (buried when I had a sprinkler system installed) to my dish, but only have two cables buried, not the four I need for HD. Don't feel like digging a trench myself, and doubt the installer will do it. Once I figure out how to get the extra cable in the ground, I am going to get the box.

I feel your pain...... Lucky for me in my current home I had previously run 6 cables from the dish mounting area because I was setting up for HD from Dish Network which at the time required two dishes and 6 cables.

However, in my new home the dish is on the roof and the house was prewired with just 4 cables coming down from the dish location to the junction box in the basement. There will be no "reasonable" way to add any more cables... and according to the last installer I spoke with DTV next dish is going to have 5 LNB's on it to hit all the new satellites....... so you may want to run a few extra while your at it! :eek:

Guys

Can you recommend a DVD player for use with this projector ? Is also HDMi the better connection that component video for this projector? Thanks for inputs.

I like the Oppo 971H.

It works great for me and the company's Customer Service is Super!

I feel your pain...... Lucky for me in my current home I had previously run 6 cables from the dish mounting area because I was setting up for HD from Dish Network which at the time required two dishes and 6 cables.

However, in my new home the dish is on the roof and the house was prewired with just 4 cables coming down from the dish location to the junction box in the basement. There will be no "reasonable" way to add any more cables... and according to the last installer I spoke with DTV next dish is going to have 5 LNB's on it to hit all the new satellites....... so you may want to run a few extra while your at it! :eek:

Good point. Guess I am either going to have to rent a ditch witch or hire someone to run 3 or 4 more cables.

Good point. Guess I am either going to have to rent a ditch witch or hire someone to run 3 or 4 more cables.

While you're at it, put the cables into conduit with extra space so you can add/replace cables easily in the future. :)

Wow! Like others before me, I just projected onto a white wall and am astonished at how good the projector looks. Now the hard work will begin as I move all my components into the new theater room and hook things up properly.
Thanks to all who have bothered to post; it certainly influenced my purchasing decision.

tvted, a couple of times I left the unit unplugged overnight and it had no impact on the VB.

I have now seen 3 AE900s in homes, and the VB is definitely improved over the AE700, and at a level that I can live with. However, I feel that they should work on the FPN, which has not improved from the 700.

I had a few friends over, and they commented that the AE900 is definitely an improvement over the 700. They couldn't verbalize why, just that it was better. IMO it was the improved contrast and more saturated colors.

I've connected my Xbox 360 to my Panasonic pt-ae900. Games look amazing with it, but every DVD I put in is severely distorted. Broad reddish horizontal lines are jumping up and down the screen.
The same movie-dvds work fine on my regular DVD-player through the PJ.
Anybody know what causes this? De-interlacing? What can be done about this? It's really unwatchable this way...
Xbox is connected to PJ using component. Xbox is set to 720p. Panny 900 is a native 720p PJ. I really want to watch DVDs with the Xbox360: the picture is a lot sharper. The artefacts make it unwatchable though. Plz help...

(I'm posting this in an Xbox360/HT-thread as well)

I've connected my Xbox 360 to my Panasonic pt-ae900. Games look amazing with it, but every DVD I put in is severely distorted. Broad reddish horizontal lines are jumping up and down the screen.
The same movie-dvds work fine on my regular DVD-player through the PJ.
Anybody know what causes this? De-interlacing? What can be done about this? It's really unwatchable this way...
Xbox is connected to PJ using component. Xbox is set to 720p. Panny 900 is a native 720p PJ. I really want to watch DVDs with the Xbox360: the picture is a lot sharper. The artefacts make it unwatchable though. Plz help...

(I'm posting this in an Xbox360/HT-thread as well)

The Xbox 360 dosent scale the picture to 720p when you are wathing movies, it´s in it´s native form (480p).

I'm looking to upgrade from My AE300 to a AE900. I have a couple of concerns that hopefully some new owners or more experiences can assist with.

Can I mount the AE900 in the same place as my AE300? Would the throw distance be the same?

I have a custom ceieling mount based on the screwholes on my AE300. Are the screwholes in the same place on the AE900?

Thanks

I'm about to go buy a power conditioner and see if it helps my VB. It's a $200 Belkin Pureav, I know it's not the best, but I can't spend more than that to get a $1700 PJ to look right. I'm hoping it makes a difference.

I'm about to go buy a power conditioner and see if it helps my VB. It's a $200 Belkin Pureav, I know it's not the best, but I can't spend more than that to get a $1700 PJ to look right. I'm hoping it makes a difference.
I noticed improvements across my system when I added a (few) RGPC 400MkII conditioners. As for the video portion, it dramatically reduced VB, improved black levels and richened colors. (My pj is a Sony HS20.)

There are different levels - and meanings - of "conditioning." Mere surge protection won't do squat for your purpose. Actual waveform clean-up is needed. Look long and hard before spending your money on conditioning as many claims are made by many name-brands whose products do not measure up. You might want to drop in on the "Tweaks and Do-It-Yourself" forum and see what they're saying.

I'm looking to upgrade from My AE300 to a AE900. I have a couple of concerns that hopefully some new owners or more experiences can assist with.

Can I mount the AE900 in the same place as my AE300? Would the throw distance be the same?

I have a custom ceieling mount based on the screwholes on my AE300. Are the screwholes in the same place on the AE900?

Thanks

Yes and yes.

I noticed improvements across my system when I added a (few) RGPC 400MkII conditioners.

Do you have any links to these?

I noticed improvements across my system when I added a (few) RGPC 400MkII conditioners. As for the video portion, it dramatically reduced VB, improved black levels and richened colors. (My pj is a Sony HS20.)

There are different levels - and meanings - of "conditioning." Mere surge protection won't do squat for your purpose. Actual waveform clean-up is needed. Look long and hard before spending your money on conditioning as many claims are made by many name-brands whose products do not measure up. You might want to drop in on the "Tweaks and Do-It-Yourself" forum and see what they're saying.

Well the Belkin model I got had pretty good reviews for improving picture quality. But I tried it and it didn't seem to do anything for my VB. I'm trying to put some hours on my PJ before I decide it I should send it back again. I will have to do a search on the conditioners you mentioned. Of course though I'm not going to spend $500 for this low end of a PJ. I would spend the extra on a DLP.

Do you have any links to these?
Well, the purpose of my post was to merely encourage you to research the category and not to be a shill for any particular company. However . .

You've got a PM.

Here is a couple of picture of my VB with a grey field. This is after I've tweaked it best I can, although it's only got about 15 hours on it. The VB looks worse than in the image, but the color change in the lower left doesn't look that bad, and my previous unit did the exact same thing, I think it's probably the lens shift. Anyway, I find this VB bothersome, is this bad or am I just too sensitive? Is it possible to get a unit that's any better. Can anyone else test with a %40-60 grey field on DVE? Thanks.

PS. Now that I look at these images since I had to resize them, you really can't see the VB much at all, so just forget them I guess.

Well the Belkin model I got had pretty good reviews for improving picture quality. But I tried it and it didn't seem to do anything for my VB. I'm trying to put some hours on my PJ before I decide it I should send it back again. I will have to do a search on the conditioners you mentioned. Of course though I'm not going to spend $500 for this low end of a PJ. I would spend the extra on a DLP.
Understood completely. Conditioning, however, can bring a broad range of improvements in your system, both audio and video. And what if spending $500 made PQ improvements that brought your PJ up to the quality of a, say, $4000 projector?

I was the most skeptical skeptic on the subject of conditioning. I am now a believer.

Here (http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/) is a link to the RGPC home page. The current model seems to be the RGPC 400 Pro. It lists for nearly $800 and I have seen a couple used for about $550.

I run my PJ off of an APC Smart UPS (sine wave output). The power did go out one night while I was viewing on my Sony 10HT and the UPS lasted long enough for the PJ to cool down and for me to shutdown the HTPC. The rest of the system is on a separate circuit with an optical Toslink cable being the only connector between the two.

When I get my PJ back, I will check to see if there is any VB difference between straight into the wall and trough the UPS. I may also take my ACFX power filter off of the audio chain and see if using it (either directly into the wall or after the UPS) helps.

I could handle spending $550 if it helped with the VB. After all, I could use it with whatever 1080P projector succeeds the AE900. Of course laying out the $550 and seeing no improvement would be an entirely different matter (I suppose I could resell it at a minor loss).

Ok, I saw something on my 900, which I thought was VB, but it was horizontal. When I lower the contrast, on the Avia contrast pattern, I can see very narrow horizontal bands moving down the screen. The entire screen is filled with them, maybe 15 on the sreen at once spaced about as far apart as the band itself. It doesn't look like ground loops I have seen in the past, which is usually one band moving down the screen.

What is this I am seeing?

Also, I do see something vertical, all across the screen on very light scenes. I cannot figure out if this is screen door or VB, since I only notice it vertically and not vertically and horizontally.

However, I thought I had read that VB usually shows up on dark scenes.

Here is a couple of picture of my VB with a grey field. This is after I've tweaked it best I can, although it's only got about 15 hours on it. The VB looks worse than in the image, but the color change in the lower left doesn't look that bad, and my previous unit did the exact same thing, I think it's probably the lens shift. Anyway, I find this VB bothersome, is this bad or am I just too sensitive? Is it possible to get a unit that's any better. Can anyone else test with a %40-60 grey field on DVE? Thanks.

PS. Now that I look at these images since I had to resize them, you really can't see the VB much at all, so just forget them I guess.
I see the color shift in the lower left corner - red, right? A mis-convergence of the red panel perhaps?

Did you reduce the image size before posting? If so, try leaving them at your camera's native resolution - the highest resolution available. A bigger picture would probably enable us to see what you're seeing.

eliocon, Panel Adjust seemed to be optimal on my unit. I was unable to improve the VB by changning it. I found that the flicker adjust did nothing to improve the VB. Disconnecting the machine from power did nothing to make it better. Trying several different sources and cables, and making sure that signal cables were not near power cables did nothing to make it better.

My conclusion is that some of these PJ's have enough VB to be noticeable while viewing and that the VB cannot always be tweaked away. Cine4home's review of the PJ also seems to indicate that some of these units have enough VB to interfere with viewing.
I hope I didn't sound like a jerk. I was just sayin that I was lucky that I got rid of the banding. It was pretty bad on mine.

Elio

eliocon, not at all. My only point was that none of the tweaks that have been suggested have helped. Now it looks like I have one more to look at, the quality of the AC.

When the PJ gets back Tuesday, I will play around a bit, but after that I am going to try and stop obsessing and start enjoying the movies. While only time will tell, I am hopeful that I can get around the VB and enjoy movies on what is aside from the VB an unbelievable value at its price point.

Thanks for the suggestions.

rsmith4321, the VB on my AE900 is also worse than that depicted in you images (my LCD monitor is calibrated). I also have a touch of red in the lower left, but I think it is less than that depicted in your image. I couldn't notice it on material that would tend to expose it (say, Ice Age), and it is a non-issue for me.

Anyway, when my PJ gets back, I will shoot a few images.

Also, since I am running 480P component, I am not sure if I am seeing scaling artifacts.

I see the color shift in the lower left corner - red, right? A mis-convergence of the red panel perhaps?

Did you reduce the image size before posting? If so, try leaving them at your camera's native resolution - the highest resolution available. A bigger picture would probably enable us to see what you're seeing.

Like I said the corner doesn't look that bad in person, and it's not noticable in any content. It's really not a color shift just a dimming, probably from lens shift. I've never seen a PJ that didn't have some of that. As long as I don't see it in video, I don't care, however the VB is worse than what you see in the images. I really don't think that it's a power supply issue, I know the line conditioner I bought wasn't the greatest. But it was $200 and has got good reviews. It made 0 difference to the VB, it seems like if it was a power problem it would have at least helped. I wish I could keep the PJ for a month or two and see if it goes away, but I don't have that option. So I think it's going back.

Oh, and I tried to leave the image large, it said the image had to be less than 800x480 or something like that.

I wish I could keep the PJ for a month or two and see if it goes away, but I don't have that option. So I think it's going back.
It sounds like you've done all that a consumer could be expected to do before bailing.

Oh, and I tried to leave the image large, it said the image had to be less than 800x480 or something like that.
I suspected as much. After all, it is free. Server space and bandwidth can add up quickly.

Can someone point me to calibrated settings for the 900U?

Im sure someone has calibrated and posted but its taking forever looking through 80 pages of post.

I'll tweak after I get them...just looking for a good place to start.

SH

As I mentioned yesterday, I'm blown away by how good the AE900 looks. As I moved all my equipment from the old media room into the new dedicated room (boy, might as well have moved from LA to NY, although at least there was a minimal time lag in re-connecting stuff). Anyways, I've yet to get HD DISH, so I'm trying to get the best picture possible. I have the new OPPO and have the HDMI/DVI cable linked from the OPPO to the Panny. My DISH box (model DVR510) has only a cable output to what was the TV set and an S-Video port.

Would I run the S-Video cable directly from the DISH receiver to the Panny, or would I benefit from running it thru the OPPO and then having the upconversion benefits of the OPPO? Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I'm pretty naive with stuff of this nature (heck, I'm really thrilled that I got the DVD working with so little hassle!).

Well for those who don't know what Vertical Banding looks like here you go. This is from my 900u when I first got it before I did some tweaks to the panel. I think I have reduced it somewhat b/c ever since then I don't notice it as much or hardly at all.

Close to 200 hours on the lamp and still going strong!

Steve.

Ok, I now realize what I am seeing is VB. What tweaks did you make? Are the list of tweaks to try listed somewhere?

Another problem. :( After watching 4:3 TV for a couple days, I am watching Star Wars Episode 1 and can see the where the side bars were. I had been told that LCD projectors didn't burn in, but it sure looks like that is what I am seeing.

Overall, things are looking pretty grim.

Check out the 900 tweak thread.

Tnedator, there are two basic tweaks, flicker and panel adjust. The instructions for the flicker tweak are on the first page of the AE700 Tweak thread. With the AE900, you will want to be feeding the PJ a 100IRE pattern off a calibration disk for two of the three panels (I forget which). The panel adjust control can be accessed from the same service menu screen as the flicker adjustment. It has a small range, but does affect the VB. I did not find the flicker tweak to have any effect on my PJ. Warm up the PJ for a good half hour before doing these tweaks.

Although I don't know much about it, you may have some image persistence on your panels. My understanding is that it will go away. See here (http://www.dslwebserver.com/main/fr_index.html?/main/lcd-screen-burn.html) for how it goes with LCD monitors.

On the VB, there is a difference between being able to notice it on an all grey, blue or green screen, and it being an issue while watching video. I wouldn't want the VB problem I and a few others have make folk hypersensitive to it. The acid test is whether it interferes with your viewing enjoyment.

hey guys, back once again requestin information...we've pretty much made our mind up on the Panny AE900...now our only question is which screen would work best with? Would the Firehawk be a good choice? or do more people use the GreyHawk? Are there any other suggestions for a less costly choice? I've been reading the thread in the screens forum but nobody can really come to a consistant answer about which screen is utimately the best...many people talked about the HCCV...would anyone suggest this over the GreyHawk or FireHawk? Anyways, thanks in advance!

I hate to say this, but if the Sanyo Z4 has really fixed the VB problem, and it has a sharper image. I'm not quite sure why we are getting the 900 anyway, the Z4 is only a bit more.

Because the Z4 does a terrible job on scaling and de-interlacing of SD sources and has horrible SDE.

It just depends on which demons you want to deal with I fear.........

As I mentioned yesterday, I'm blown away by how good the AE900 looks. As I moved all my equipment from the old media room into the new dedicated room (boy, might as well have moved from LA to NY, although at least there was a minimal time lag in re-connecting stuff). Anyways, I've yet to get HD DISH, so I'm trying to get the best picture possible. I have the new OPPO and have the HDMI/DVI cable linked from the OPPO to the Panny. My DISH box (model DVR510) has only a cable output to what was the TV set and an S-Video port.

Would I run the S-Video cable directly from the DISH receiver to the Panny, or would I benefit from running it thru the OPPO and then having the upconversion benefits of the OPPO? Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I'm pretty naive with stuff of this nature (heck, I'm really thrilled that I got the DVD working with so little hassle!).
HD Dish with a box whose best video connection is s-video? Are you sure? Did you know that an s-video connection does NOT pass hi-def signals? The "HD" in "HD Dish" means hi-definition, doesn't it?

EDIT: I may have mis-understood. You have only standard DISH now? Plan on needing different cabling for a HD Dish setup. Component and/or DVI/HDMI.

Because the Z4 does a terrible job on scaling and de-interlacing of SD sources and has horrible SDE.

It just depends on which demons you want to deal with I fear.........

I'm not trying to start a flame, I was just thinking out loud. Anyway, like most people here, I never use SD sources. My cable box upscales everything to whatever I want. It does a decent job. I don't know of any interlaced source I use anymore. I haven't seen it in person, SDE doesn't seem to be a problem from reviews, but perhaps it would bother me. I really dislike SDE. By the way, does anyone have a camera and DVE handy that thinks they have no VB? I'm just curious if they put up a 40-60% grey field if they notice it, perhaps they just don't know what to look for. Or maybe if I try again I will get a unit without VB. I'm not sure what to do. My current unit has perfect convergence, I hate to get rid of it if the VB will dissapear in time.

No Flames Smith........

Just every report and reveiw of the Z4 has mentioned that it has Very apparent SDE, and that you need to be 2x screen width away from the picture. This pretty much cooks it for me, because I do not have that kind of room for the size screen I want.

No Evan on PJC does not seem to mind... he apparently is not bothered by SDE. CKL over in HongKong has reviewed all of the units as has Art in San Diego. Everyone that I have read mentioned the prounced SDE on the Z4 and the poor preformance of it's de-interlacer.

I guess I am not most people because I watch a huge amount of SD material on my BenQ 8700+. Mostly because they have not got the SciFi channel into HD yet! Honestly I watch mostly SD (SciFi channel), then HDTV (whatever is worth watching), then DVD's, and finally X-box.

I do not know why, but from walking around the last two CES's I have found that I despise SDE..., just a personal flaw I suppose! So for me when I read reviews that mention the pronounced SDE it pretty much eliminates a projector from consideration for me. I have not purchased the 900 yet, although the current rebates are sure pushing my buttons (I had planned on waiting until after January's CES).

I have no experience with VB as it is not an issue on the DLP that I own, but I don't think I would like it!

Add superior color with just visual calibration to the list. Also, bear in mind that a large majority of these units seem to have minimal to no VB. While this thread is mighty long, I don't think there have been more than a handful of folk reporting a distubing amount of VB.

smith4321, as I understand it, you can return your unit. I have no such option, but if I did, I would excercise it.

Things can change quickly, if I were starting my search today, I would wait a bit to find out more about the Hitachi TX200 (HDPJ52 in the US and Canada - threads in >$3,500 forum). Some early reports (which should not be confused with a review) indicate it might be the best of the D5 machines (I believe that all the newest model, except those from Sony, use these panels). It is just barely avaliable in the US at a price just shy of that of the Sony HS51.

At the same time, right now, the AE900 is a great value. I would however recommend buying from a source that will let you out of the deal if you are dissatisfied. Ending up in the gray area where you believe a problem is significant enough to merit an exchange unit or a refund, while the vendor does not is no fun when there is a significant restocking fee - the buyer has little leverage in the negotiations.

I understand the vendor's side in the sense of having to deal with customers who want to return/exchange a unit for flaws that are not visible/annoying at a reasonable seating distance. I think it would be well worth an extra 5% to 7% to have the right of return/exchange. Heck, I would have been happy had the restocking fee been 10% instead of 20%.

If only I had figured this out before I ordered the PJ :(

Jacob........

So far I have received one response from a forum sponsor that they will check the projector for VB, Dead Pixels, and panel convergence, prior to shipping the unit.

I am waiting to hear from a couple of other sponsors on this issue, but I will definitely be buying the projector from someone willing to take the potential pain away before I receive the projector!

Of course, there could always be the issue of "well we did not see any VB!"

But I think it is worth a try!

When I purchased my BenQ8700+ a number of people here on AVS were reporting that they were receiving units where the projected image was not square, but rather bowed on the top or bottom. I found a forum sponsor that would open up the box and check the projector for squareness (can't think of the correct term... oh yeah, I think it was "barrel distortion") as well as dead mirrors prior to shipment. They claim to have checked and I was happy from day one.

it would help if people with VB stated several things

1. length of cable run - from CABLE/SAT/OTA box to projector, and does the cable run direct

2. whether they are using "upscaling" DVD players

3. whether they have tested with a HI DEF signal from Cable, SAT, or OTA

4. type of connection = whether its component or DVI/HDMI

I hate to say this, but if the Sanyo Z4 has really fixed the VB problem, and it has a sharper image. I'm not quite sure why we are getting the 900 anyway, the Z4 is only a bit more.

The sharpness advantage (which some experts say relates to DVDs and is not even applicable with Hi Def on a side by side comparison) comes at a very high price, the apparent near mandatory minimum seating distance of 1.5 times screen width distance for the Z4. The AE700/900's are well known as being viewable from far closer distances, which allows far greater flexibility

The 900 is an enhanced 700, and I will comment on the 700 since its the unit I've put over 1100 hours on

Citing a specific case and the Panasonic's apparent intrinsic advantage over the Z4:

in the movie TAXI, a comedy starring Jimmy Fallon and Queen Latifah, it was broadcast on COMCAST HD the other night via CINEMAX, and I noticed it was ultra-high quality so I recorded it on my DVR to test screen distances. In fact is was extremely sharp - which is common with many better quality HD sourced materials on this unit, and no doubt the 900

On an AE700u with DVI/HDMI HD box - to projector run, using a 96" matte white screen, high lamp/ high fan, dynamic iris "on", sharpness +6, everything else default setting, theater-dark conditions. projecting dead center screen shot shelf mount from 10.5 ft - screen shelf approx 4.5 height

viewing from a slight side angle from an originating point in front of the right one-third of the screen - looking slightly left and slightly up - from a swivel chair

Near pefect IMAX -effect viewing distance from 4.5 ft from eyes to screen. Almost no excess head or eye movement required as periphreal vision takes care of it, little or no screen degradation from that distance, no eyestrain of any other issues, SDE (if any) is nearly undetectable - you have to really look for it

Now this is extreme however it works very well if one desires a certain effect, however a 6.5 ft distance is very practical and an 8.0 ft distance is a near univeral all purpose distance for the AE700/900s onto a screen of approx this size

The Sanyo Z4 (no doubt an outstanding Hi Def LCD) by all available evidence does not offer this close-in viewing option, which suggests to me that the AE900u will once again outsell the Sanyo comparable model this season - the Z4

Too bad (for those w/o a clean HD broadcast source) that once again Toshiba HD-dvd has been delayed, otherwise many others would have started noticing the in-close capabilities of the AE700/900 series - at distances once thought to be near impossible

Sure, though I would find it helpful if you would tell me why this information would be helpful.

1) RGBHV HD15 from HTPC to PJ - 20'
DVI to HDMI from HTPC to PJ - 25'
Component from older DVD player to PJ - 18'

2) Not exactly, but I do use my HTPC for this purpose.

3) I have not tested with an HD signal from any of these, but I have played TS files (720P and 1080i)

4) see Item 1

5) I have never met an alien, except for the one that gave me the TS files, and I haven't done any halucinagens in a quarter century.

Longer cable runs have already been cited as a possible issue impacting VB, although I would presume that would have to be way beyond 25 ft

Many of us (early buyers) of AE700u's either got lucky with good units, or because of other factors - maybe shelf mounting (e.g with 6 ft DVI/HDMI cable runs) or using mostly HD sourced material perhaps never dealt with VB - because our setup from Day One simply reduced the odds

Personally I eventually need to run several projectors in my house at once, and I believe the Pan 900 is far more suitable for me than the Z4 as a 2nd unit - so I am trying to find out what is exactly is (STILL) happening with VB and why its still happening

Not sure why Panansonic is not screening for this - unless it shows up later - although from what I can surmise it appears to be primarily an out of the box issue

I noticed COSTCO which has among the best return policies in the business - is not currently selling the AE700u's. Now hopefully that means they have run out of their original supply and are planning to make a massive buy of AE900u's - which would make an easy and safe way to buy w/o worrying about the VB issue and getting stuck with a bad unit

I just spoke with tech support at the vendor after returning my AE900 for VB evaluation. While the tech support fellow was personable and courteous, his conclustion was that the amount of vertical banding I have is perfectly normal.

As it is, I notice the banding a couple of times during a flick. On animation movies, I often notice it quite a bit (say opening of Ice Age). I supsect that as I watch more movies, I will notice it a bit less. But, nonetheless, I am not thrilled with the situation. One wonders how Projector Central managed to get three units with no VB if what I have is normal?

I am going to sleep on it overnight, and consider possibly eating the $410 restocking fee and getting an HS51 instead. While the Sony will have more visible SD, it is very very unlikely to have VB issues. On the other hand, given my net cost after the $200 rebate and the Blockbuster card (which I value at $100 as I am not a gamer), I could hang on to it for a while and see if I can live with the VB. If not, I could then sell it for under $1,400 and still come out ahead relative to the restocking fee. I think that is probably the mature thing to do. :rolleyes:

Caveat emptor, if I knew that the amount of VB I have is normal, I would have bought the HS51 in the first place.

P.S. I have done the tweaks. And BTW, when I spoke with the tech suport fellow, he mentioned that the flicker tweak does not affect VB on the AE900 - the panel adjust does. This jives with my experience trying to tweak out the VB. He also mentioned that the VB on the AE900 manifests itself differently than on the AE700. He said that on the AE900 VB consists of much narrower stripes than on the AE700.

I am not totally bent out of shape and I am not trying to dis the AE900 (the image is otherwise spectacular).

Pricklepit, yes, you do need to be feeding the projector while adjusting the flicker on the other two panels. I use the all white, 100 IRE, full screen test pattern from one of the calibration DVD's.

The expert testers could easily be given cherry picked units provided by the manufacturers, however its not depositive one way or the other - since we don't know whether Panasonic selected-out VB units. Of course we do know the manufacturers w/o any doubt provide the units for free - and while understandable that the reviewerd cannot just buy all these units, I also can understand why a deep pocket group like Consumer Reports (as one example) goes out and buys things off the shelf

Yesterday I witnessed an unpleasant effect: using the Panny S97 via 720p HDMI at the AE900 I had two DVD´s (Near Dark RC2 and Save the green planet RC2) and was able to clearly see what we in Germany call "Kammeffekt" ("comb-effect") (kind of stairs at edges as if the signal was interlaced).

Since all my other DVD´s are playing wonderful I assume that the problem lies in the source material on those DVD´s mentioned above ...

Did anyone of you encounter this "phenomenon" or has anyone an explanation why this happens ?

And one more question: doing the panel adjustment in the service menu of the AE900 - what do I have to watch out for ?
When is the adjustment right or wrong ? :confused:

Thanx again,
prickelpit

I bought the Panny but am trying to improve my DVD picture quality. I get a slight ghosting effect most noticeable when there is a darker object against a brighter background as well as some other small artifacts at times.

I am looking at two ideas, one being to add an electric conditioner of some sort(not sure if that is the correct term) and the other is to get a better DVD player. My goal is to buy something at a good bang-for-the-buck price that will get the job done while keeping in mind this as not an expensive pj or high end outfit that I am working with.

I have no idea what conditioner to look at and am open to suggestions. I hope to stay below $400, preferably around $200.

I have thought about getting the OPPO's OPDV971H for the DVD player and a DVI cable from Blue Jean's Cable (they need to get a better name) which will run about 35-40 ft. Any suggestions here? Is there a reason to consider using a HDMI cable instead? Buying asap. Thx in advance.

I have an Oppo with the AE900. I would suggest getting the Monoprice DVI to HDMI 35' cable. It should work fine and you will save some money. I would try the cable before getting into power conditioners.

Should I get the Oppo now or wait for next years model? I doubt pic quality would be improved but maybe some of the firmware issues will be resolved by then...

And one more question: doing the panel adjustment in the service menu of the AE900 - what do I have to watch out for ?
When is the adjustment right or wrong ? :confused:

Thanx again,
prickelpit


Well the test patterns show you the VB in various shades of each color, and you try to tune it out. It seems like the options are really tight VB, or wider VB stripes. It seems like the best option is inbetween when the VB is tight and starts to get wide. As far as I can tell, of course it didn't eliminate it but it helped a bit. I personally see no VB in the blue, a little in the red, and a lot in the green. By the way, I also thought the flicker tweak didn't seem to do anything, I'm glad someone confirmed this with support. About my sources, again if it was a source issue, how would I see the VB in the panel tweak patterns? I've also tried HDMI and DVI, I don't think it's a source issue.

And to the previous poster, are you sure your actually watching SD sources on the 900. Remember, if you use a cable box like the Time Warner 9300HD (piece of crap) it actually upscales all the signals for you unless you change the default settings.

Anyone else notice some deinterlacing artifacts when feeding the Panny an interlaced signal with Cinema Reality (3:2 pulldown) set to "on"? It's not blatantly obvious, but every now and then when a scene changes quickly to another camera angle or a new shot, I see scan lines on the screen for a split-second. If I turn Cinema Reality off or change the source to progressive, these deinterlacing artifacts go away, but new artifacts are introduced since the Panny isn't doing 3:2 pulldown correctly. I never saw this for the first 2 weeks or so of ownership. I can't be 100% certain that the phenomenon is new, but I see it frequently now and never saw it before.

Wondering if I got a bum deinterlacer. I know I could just set my HDTivo to output 720p, but before this artifact appeared I felt like the Panny was doing a better job of deinterlacing and scaling.

-Sean

I have an Oppo with the AE900. I would suggest getting the Monoprice DVI to HDMI 35' cable. It should work fine and you will save some money. I would try the cable before getting into power conditioners.

What are the benefits of using a DVI to HDMI cable instead of just a DVI to DVI cable?

Hello and thanks to all the contributors to this thread. I just hooked up my Panasonic 900 yesterday using S video cables from an older Dish receiver to and through my Sherwood Newcastle receiver. The first thing we watched was the Lions vs. the Bengals and my wife was fairly disappointed because of how awful the players looked in a full field shot. The close ups were somewhat better. We then watched Cold Case and a previously recorded HBO movie and were very impressed. Is this just a difference in broadcast quality? Also we have a light vertical band at the right edge. Can this be tweeked out? I'm not sure what vertical banding looks like but I noticed that when the screen is pure blue, that it appears there are varying shades in a sort of concentric pattern. This was not noticed in watching a program. Is this normal? Can it be made better or will it never be a problem in watching a program or DVD movie? The vendor claims to have checked for vertical banding, dead pixels and misconvergence. (This was at my request) Thanks for any help.

What are the benefits of using a DVI to HDMI cable instead of just a DVI to DVI cable?

You're going to need an HDMI connection to the AE900, so if you don't already have a DVI cable (where you would just add a DVI-to-HDMI adapter), you'd be better off just getting a DVI-to-HDMI cable.

Just put my 700U on ebay for sale - ordered the 900U on Saturday - can't wait!

The 700 has ~550hrs on it and is in perfect condition.

5) I have never met an alien, except for the one that gave me the TS files, and I haven't done any halucinagens in a quarter century.
Are you sure? There was no question #5. :)

The first thing you should do is get rid of the s-video cables. On a big screen with a projector I think you should be using component or HDMI to get the best picture.

jcg

Hello and thanks to all the contributors to this thread. I just hooked up my Panasonic 900 yesterday using S video cables from an older Dish receiver to and through my Sherwood Newcastle receiver. The first thing we watched was the Lions vs. the Bengals and my wife was fairly disappointed because of how awful the players looked in a full field shot. The close ups were somewhat better. We then watched Cold Case and a previously recorded HBO movie and were very impressed. Is this just a difference in broadcast quality? Also we have a light vertical band at the right edge. Can this be tweeked out? I'm not sure what vertical banding looks like but I noticed that when the screen is pure blue, that it appears there are varying shades in a sort of concentric pattern. This was not noticed in watching a program. Is this normal? Can it be made better or will it never be a problem in watching a program or DVD movie? The vendor claims to have checked for vertical banding, dead pixels and misconvergence. (This was at my request) Thanks for any help.

The first thing you should do is get rid of the s-video cables. On a big screen with a projector I think you should be using component or HDMI to get the best picture.

jcg
" . . . older Dish receiver . . . " was the hint.

Just put my 700U on ebay for sale - ordered the 900U on Saturday - can't wait!

The 700 has ~550hrs on it and is in perfect condition.
What was your main reason foir upgrading?

And to the previous poster, are you sure your actually watching SD sources on the 900. Remember, if you use a cable box like the Time Warner 9300HD (piece of crap) it actually upscales all the signals for you unless you change the default settings.[/QUOTE]

As I mentioned in my post, I do not have an HD cable box. I am watching SD sources and I directly hooked up the S-Vid cable from the DISH PVR510 cable box (it's probably 3 years old) to the projector. I tried running it thru the OPPO, but couldn't get a picture. Actually, I'm surprised at how good the SD looks; perhaps it's because I've been watching TV thru a 1994 Toshiba 61" rear projection for the past 11 years!

John, I had several reasons for upgrading. I always like the latest equipment and I had a very slight problem with Vb on my 700. I was probably the only one who noticed it. I have been lucky with my 900. I don't notice any VB and I have great convergence. I picked the 900 over the Z4 because I have a very small room and I know I would have been bothered by SDE. I would check out the 900 you receive immediately for VB, dead pixels, and convergence.

Prickelpit, are the two DVD's you noticed combing on non-anamorphic wide screen DVDs? If so, that might expain why other DVD's look better and do not exhibit combing. Scalers/deinterlacers cannot perform miracles. In any event, it is likely an issue with your DVD player or those specific DVDs, not the AE900, as you are feeding the PJ 720P.

Troy, have you turned down the sharpening on the PJ? Is there a sharpening option turned on in you DVD player? Sometimes sharpening will yield artifacts that can seem like ghosting.

mtnsean, every now and again while feeding the PJ 1080i (film-based) source, I also notice a deinterlacing artifact. My HTPC does a bit better at deinterlacing and as a result, I feed the PJ 720P.

Pepar, there was no question 5? It must have been a flashback :) Maybe my noticing the VB was the result of one long flashback. Perhaps when I get the PJ back tomorrow, there will be no visible VB. While I appreciate the advice given by many, I find it amusing that for some it seems hard to believe that a few units might have VB that cannot be tweaked away. Perhaps a PJ VB exorcism is called for?

I just ordered my 900u and am looking for a dvd player for it. Will an upconverting dvd player make a difference. I will be running the hdmi cable to it? Looking to spend about 200

I'm working on calibrating my AE900 and have an odd issue. I just got my screen installed (DaLite HighPower) and a new DVD player that I have hooked up via HDMI. When I display the image to the screen it is not square. When the top is square to the screen (and the sides) the bottom of the image gets bigger as the image goes towards the right. I'd say the bottom right is about 1.5" lower than the bottom left? I haven't changed any settings on the projector, and am wondering if anyone else has seen this. I haven't been keeping up with this thread for awhile now, but hoping that someone can help me with this. Thanks.

jcg
Oh thank you ole wise one. I wanted to post this also. Only my Panny AE900 is bigger on the left at the bottom about 1.5" Also while were talking about a square image, I know a little about aspect ratio and such but! Why when viewing a 16:9 video and I have a 58''(H) x 104''(W) - HDTV Format, I've got bars top and bottom and IF I adjust to fill the picture left and right, when I view a full screen picture it overscans off the top and bottom. IF I adjust the top and bottom, I have about 2-3" less on both sides.

What is overscan in my Oppo DVD player? Aspect on the Panny is 16:9, overscan off. Don't know about WSS?

SO whats up with picture?

Thanks
Dave :cool:

I just ordered my 900u and am looking for a dvd player for it. Will an upconverting dvd player make a difference. I will be running the hdmi cable to it? Looking to spend about 200

Get the Oppo OPDV971H or the Panasonic S77. Yes, it will make a noticeable difference over a 480p player over component.

Hagar, as to the horizontal keystoning, see this post - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6739332#post6739332

Only my Panny AE900 is bigger on the left at the bottom about 1.5"

The projector must be level and square with the screen. That means if it's not level, you can get some widening at the top or bottom and if it's not square (parallel to the screen) you can get some vertical widening on one side or the other.


What is overscan in my Oppo DVD player? Aspect on the Panny is 16:9, overscan off. Don't know about WSS?


You shouldn't have a problem with the Oppo unless you have the new 1111b firmware, which causes an improper aspect ratio and image shift with the AE900. If you do have 1111b, roll it back to the previous firmware version. WSS is only for PAL or 576i component input.

I just ordered my 900u and am looking for a dvd player for it. Will an upconverting dvd player make a difference. I will be running the hdmi cable to it? Looking to spend about 200
I picked up the Oppo base on the recommendations fromt this forum and love it with my 900. I can definitely tell a difference.

What was your main reason foir upgrading?

I can't completely control ambient light during the day in my family room so I wanted more contrast and more light to make the picture more enjoyable. It is definitely usable right now with the blinds closed (we watch it during the day all the time) and awesome at night - just wanted better quality during the day.

Oh thank you ole wise one. I wanted to post this also. Only my Panny AE900 is bigger on the left at the bottom about 1.5" Also while were talking about a square image, I know a little about aspect ratio and such but! Why when viewing a 16:9 video and I have a 58''(H) x 104''(W) - HDTV Format, I've got bars top and bottom and IF I adjust to fill the picture left and right, when I view a full screen picture it overscans off the top and bottom. IF I adjust the top and bottom, I have about 2-3" less on both sides.

What is overscan in my Oppo DVD player? Aspect on the Panny is 16:9, overscan off. Don't know about WSS?

SO whats up with picture?

Thanks
Dave :cool:

When you say 16:9 video, do you mean a DVD movie? DVD's are either 1.85:1 or 2:35:1 ratios(these are the 2 most common widescreen formats). Your HDTV screen is for 16:9 material which actually is 1.78:1. If you watch a 1.85:1 DVD on your 1.78:1 screen you will get what you are describing--small black bars at the top and bottom. With a 2.35:1 DVD you will get much larger bars. Too bad HDTV wasn't 1.85:1, but I guess 16X9 and 4X3 are easier to say than 1.85:1, 1.78:1 and 1.33:1.

I need to use a manual pull down screen and have been leaning towards the HP screen because it is supposed to show less waves over time, as well as giving a very bright picture. I plan to put the AE900 in the center of the screen for best possible picture. My only concern is having too bright a picture with the AE900. When I first get the projector and the bulb is bright I was thinking of using Low Lamp mode, filter(s), and lowering the brightness and contrast so the picture is not too bright. Then as the bulb dims over time (as they all do), I would take the filter(s) off, increase the brightness and contrast, and finally set the lamp to high; keeping the brightness of the picture constant. Does this sound like a good idea?

Another thought I just had, once the projector is calibrated, do you have to recalibrate every time you adjust the brightness and contrast? If not, then I could get an HP screen and simply increase the contrast and brightness over time as the bulb dims. And at the same time get the benefit of a waveless HP pull down screen.

Are the replacement lamps for the 700 & 900 the same? Can't find anything online except two different part numbers (ET-LAE700 and the ET-LAE900)

Sure, though I would find it helpful if you would tell me why this information would be helpful.

1) RGBHV HD15 from HTPC to PJ - 20'
DVI to HDMI from HTPC to PJ - 25'
Component from older DVD player to PJ - 18'

2) Not exactly, but I do use my HTPC for this purpose.

3) I have not tested with an HD signal from any of these, but I have played TS files (720P and 1080i)

4) see Item 1

5) I have never met an alien, except for the one that gave me the TS files, and I haven't done any halucinagens in a quarter century.

Jacob,

#5 needs some work. ;)

ted

mtnsean, every now and again while feeding the PJ 1080i (film-based) source, I also notice a deinterlacing artifact. My HTPC does a bit better at deinterlacing and as a result, I feed the PJ 720P.



Interesting - in my case I see the deinterlacing artifacts on non-film-based (video) sources, but only when the Cinema Reality switch is on. At least I'm assuming they're video (not film) sources since they're your run-of-the-mill SD commercials and HD television shows (not movies).

-Sean

Probably as a result of that "stuff" that Jacob no longer uses, this silly thought flashes through the mush I call a mind.

For those of you who have moved from the 700 to the 900....
Has it been worth it and why?

Can you put a dollar value on that? Was it worth say $1K in U.S. seen as the price difference between what you got for your 700 vs. what you paid for your 900?

Richard?

ted

What is the proper "Overscan" setting on the 900 with a 720P HDMI feed? Should it be "On" or "Off?" Also, what is the proper aspect setting for the same feed?

P
For those of you who have moved from the 700 to the 900....
Has it been worth it and why?
ted

On page like, 60 something of this tread their were a few reactions from people who moved from the 700 to 900, and even a few that saw side-by-side demo's at stores.

The synopsis seems to be that the 900 is indeed better, though more of a revolution as opposed to a revolution. Some even seemed to be somewhat disappointed, as they had hoped for more. Black levels were better, but not very much so. Colors were slightly more accurate, but usually only in 'out of the box' situation. A little tweaking and filter action made them almost identical.

For most it comes down to cost. Is the slight gain in performance worth a couple hundred dollars more? Their is a great article at ausmedia compairing the two, check it out!
(ps, no link! Board won't let you post links until 5 posts)

For me, it sure is worth it. I just ordered my 900 because after seeing a 700 in a nice audio dealer, a figured the difference in cost would be negligible over the long term. The 700 looked great and the 900 could only be that much better.

so whats the consensus on screen for the 900? gray .90 gain? which one does everyone suggest?

EVERYONE just keeps blindly writing to this thread but no one is reading and responding to anyone, Ugggly. LOL :mad:

The screen you use depends on your situation. If you have a light controled room I like the matte white screen. If you have some ambient light the grey wolf is a good choice.

EVERYONE just keeps blindly writing to this thread but no one is reading and responding to anyone, Ugggly. LOL :mad:
Well, Duke107, a post like that is sure to get you some attention.

EVERYONE just keeps blindly writing to this thread but no one is reading and responding to anyone, Ugggly. LOL :mad:
Your previous post did not ask a question. It was just you speculating about VB right after admitting you didn't know what it was. Perhaps that's why no one came out to play with you.

EVERYONE just keeps blindly writing to this thread but no one is reading and responding to anyone, Ugggly. LOL :mad:
I counted three replies to one of your previous posts. Blindly writing, eh?

VB:

After adjusting the flicker and panel, I have the VB minimized so that I only see it 10% as much as I used to. There are still certain light scenes where it is barely visible. If I hadn't seen it before, I might not notice it now.

This is my question. Is the mere fact that it is present degrading the picture across the board? In other words, just because I can't see it in a dark scene or face shot, does it mean it isn't effecting the picture, or is it degrading the picture and just not visible as VB?

I am trying to decide if I should try and send it back for replacement or to Panny for repair (does Panasonic even consider VB a repairable issue?)?

Thanks

I've seen lots of comparisons between the 900 and the Z4 (all aspects, sharpness, black level, contrast, color, etc). However in Houston, I haven't been able to see either of these. At my local home theater store they do have a Sony HS51 set up. That picture seems great (92 in a light controlled room). There was a limited comparison between the 900 and the HS51, but it focused only on the black level and contrast. My question pertains to the sharpness of the two. I am very happy with the sharpness of the HS51. Does anyone know how the 900's sharpness compares against the HS51?

I have been reading through several pages of this post about people's issues with VB. It seems that everyone notices it when displaying a single solid color screen.
I have just ordered my 900 and I don't really care if I can see it with a solid color screen. Of those that see it with those screens, is it noticeable while watching video?

I've seen lots of comparisons between the 900 and the Z4 (all aspects, sharpness, black level, contrast, color, etc). However in Houston, I haven't been able to see either of these. At my local home theater store they do have a Sony HS51 set up. That picture seems great (92 in a light controlled room). There was a limited comparison between the 900 and the HS51, but it focused only on the black level and contrast. My question pertains to the sharpness of the two. I am very happy with the sharpness of the HS51. Does anyone know how the 900's sharpness compares against the HS51?
I'm guessing you're talking about one of the Home Theater Stores right? The one on the way to Galveston was the first store I went to two months or so back when I was trying to decide which projector I wanted. Just based on seeing the one they had set up, viewing their normal input and several dvds, I felt the brightness and SDE were unacceptable even on the smallish screen it was projecting on. Just my personal preference.

After about a month of researching, I decided to go with the Panny 900. I'm projecting about a 123" diagonal picture, and the image is as sharp as I would want it to be. I actually have turned down the sharpness on the 900. I've viewed the same material on both projectors, and while I haven't done a side by side, I feel the 900 throws a noticably superior picture. To my eyes at least. The last thing I would say from viewing the hs51 is that it is sharper then the 900.

I recently bought a ae900 replacing the ae700. On the same space and the same distance (projector to screen) the ae900 pictures seems to be bigger. I'm a bit puzzled by this.

Some advise would be great!

Combing Effect:
I switched the transfer-mode on my Panny S97 from "Auto" to "Video" and the combing effect was gone !!!
So this really was not a AE900-issue.


But there is some other thing that bothers me a little bit:

On the left side of the picture I can see two vertical black bars running from top to the bottom of the screen. They are nearly invisible but in fact they are there when I hardly look for them ...
And this is definitely no screen issue since those bars are moving when I zoom the picture !

Does anyone have this problem, too ???

Does anyone know how the 900's sharpness compares against the HS51?

Seen both, and no doubt; the picture appears much sharper on the Sony than the Panasonic. This mainly because of Panas SmoothScreen-technology.....

The question of sharpness may be one of perception. Enhanced SDE may give the illusion of increased sharpness as some reviewers have noted. The question should be which projector gives the best picture for your use. Is it better to have increased sharpness and more SDE or to have Smooth Screen and no SDE?

I have been reading through several pages of this post about people's issues with VB. It seems that everyone notices it when displaying a single solid color screen.
I have just ordered my 900 and I don't really care if I can see it with a solid color screen. Of those that see it with those screens, is it noticeable while watching video?
Many scenes in a movie have a "single solid color." Off the top of my head, many shots of the sky are a single color.

I recently bought a ae900 replacing the ae700. On the same space and the same distance (projector to screen) the ae900 pictures seems to be bigger. I'm a bit puzzled by this.

Some advise would be great!
Better black levels creates more 3-dimensionality in the picture. It doesn't make it higher or wider, but "deeper" which can be perceived as "bigger." Perhaps this is what you are experiencing.

When you say 16:9 video, do you mean a DVD movie? DVD's are either 1.85:1 or 2:35:1 ratios(these are the 2 most common widescreen formats). Your HDTV screen is for 16:9 material which actually is 1.78:1. If you watch a 1.85:1 DVD on your 1.78:1 screen you will get what you are describing--small black bars at the top and bottom. With a 2.35:1 DVD you will get much larger bars. Too bad HDTV wasn't 1.85:1, but I guess 16X9 and 4X3 are easier to say than 1.85:1, 1.78:1 and 1.33:1.

While most motion pictures are 1.85:1 or 2.35:1, material orginally for TV may be 16:9 (example: Battlestar Galactica).

Brian

i got my AE900 friday and watched it all weekend. All seems great no vb that i can see had a scrolling horizontal line a first but searching forums found it to be a ground loop put all components on same circuit it went away.

my question is now where to mount? my room is fairly good light control during day can be very good at night. the room is 25.5 ft long seating at 17.5 feet. I didn't get a screen yet I am projecting on wall but impressed with colors on wall i had bought a piece of parkland poly wall to compare with the poly wall the whites were brighter but the painted wall was more then acceptable and let me change sizes smaller during day when light control more difficult and larger at night. (the paint is benjamin moore eggshell finish pewter color sort of a medium gray) colors were good i did not see hot spots. I was watching hd football at 135-150 diag and 2.35 movies at 136 diag at 2.35 not including black bars .

now my question do I mount my projector at back of room apx 24 feet (easier installation in ceiling shorter cable runs ect.) or at 17 feet? Or will I be sorry if i mount at 24 ft when the brightness drops and will I want a smaller screen as most on board seem to have smaller screens eventually or will continue to watch at the present size?

Many scenes in a movie have a "single solid color." Off the top of my head, many shots of the sky are a single color.

But is it noticeable without pausing the video during those scenes and seaarching for it? Is it something that is distracting without having to really search for it during normal, continuous playback?

But is it noticeable without pausing the video during those scenes and seaarching for it? Is it something that is distracting without having to really search for it during normal, continuous playback?
If VB is prominent on one's projector, then yes. And yes.

i got my AE900 friday and watched it all weekend. All seems great no vb that i can see had a scrolling horizontal line a first but searching forums found it to be a ground loop put all components on same circuit it went away.

my question is now where to mount? my room is fairly good light control during day can be very good at night. the room is 25.5 ft long seating at 17.5 feet. I didn't get a screen yet I am projecting on wall but impressed with colors on wall i had bought a piece of parkland poly wall to compare with the poly wall the whites were brighter but the painted wall was more then acceptable and let me change sizes smaller during day when light control more difficult and larger at night. (the paint is benjamin moore eggshell finish pewter color sort of a medium gray) colors were good i did not see hot spots. I was watching hd football at 135-150 diag and 2.35 movies at 136 diag at 2.35 not including black bars .

now my question do I mount my projector at back of room apx 24 feet (easier installation in ceiling shorter cable runs ect.) or at 17 feet? Or will I be sorry if i mount at 24 ft when the brightness drops and will I want a smaller screen as most on board seem to have smaller screens eventually or will continue to watch at the present size?
Distance from projector to screen has no effect on brightness; with any given projector and setup, it is solely determined by SCREEN SIZE. I suppose smoke and dust in the air would have an effect, but you'd have other problems if that were the case.

The thinking is to have the image pass through as much of the center of the lens as possible to minimize distortions that can be present at the outer edges of the lens system. To do this, the projector should be mounted as far from the screen as possible. Of course, you should need to know what size screen before permanently mounting it.

Distance from projector to screen has no effect on brightness; with any given projector and setup, it is solely determined by SCREEN SIZE.

While that's generally true, it's not with the AE900 and other projectors with high zoom ratios. Take a look at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6374642&&#post6374642) from earlier in this thread.

Distance from projector to screen has no effect on brightness; with any given projector and setup, it is solely determined by SCREEN SIZE. I suppose smoke and dust in the air would have an effect, but you'd have other problems if that were the case.

pepar,

In the case of a Zoom lens which does not have constant aperture it depends on where in the zoom you are located. A 900 located closer to the screen allows for a wider aperture ~ f1.9. Further away for the same screen size, it incorporates the zoom which changes the f-stop, lowering the output per the f-stop setting, which varies about 1 stop throughout its range for the 900.

What you are saying is only true for constant aperture lenses.

ted

What is the proper "Overscan" setting on the 900 with a 720P HDMI feed? Should it be "On" or "Off?" Also, what is the proper aspect setting for the same feed?

Anyone?

Overscan Off and 16:9

All

I've been a DLP owner for a while now and I'm still on the fence for going with an LCD. All the older LCD projectors at my company have color blemishes on them. Have any of the older Panny AE projectors started to do this?

I'm not keen to buy a projector that will wash out and get blochy in 2 years.

Also are there any places in the SF Bay Area demonstrating it locally. I really like to see before I buy.

For me, it sure is worth it. I just ordered my 900 because after seeing a 700 in a nice audio dealer, a figured the difference in cost would be negligible over the long term. The 700 looked great and the 900 could only be that much better.

I do believe the 900 improves on the 700 but I guess I wan't clear. I already own a filter calibrated 700. What I'm looking for is a value attached to the cost differential of selling the unt and buying a 900 - if such an estimate is possible. Is that worth say $1K U.S. hit that you might take?

ted

EVERYONE just keeps blindly writing to this thread but no one is reading and responding to anyone, Ugggly. LOL :mad:

Ermm..
Were you referring to the lack of response to your VB post?
At the risk of being self-referential (ok that's not really an issue :p )
see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6673109&&#post6673109) in this very same thread.

So before you get in a huff and accuse the posters here as being navel gazing narcissists perhaps a search of the thread might be in order.

ted

Where can one find replacement air filters for the AE900U? I've searched on-line and cannot seem to find them. Maybe I'm just blind?

Thanks

John, I had several reasons for upgrading. I always like the latest equipment and I had a very slight problem with Vb on my 700. I was probably the only one who noticed it. I have been lucky with my 900. I don't notice any VB and I have great convergence. I picked the 900 over the Z4 because I have a very small room and I know I would have been bothered by SDE. I would check out the 900 you receive immediately for VB, dead pixels, and convergence.

I have the 900 with no noticeable VB or SDE but for convergence I do see a slight blue convergence issue when I'm less that 2 feet from a 110" screen. It's not at all noticable from further back so is this considered a convergence problem? It's only the blue that is noticable.

Where can one find replacement air filters for the AE900U? I've searched on-line and cannot seem to find them.

You shouldn't need to replace it if you keep it clean, but I think the only place you can get one is through Panasonic's parts department here (http://www.pasc.panasonic.com/epartr/).

I recently bought a ae900 replacing the ae700. On the same space and the same distance (projector to screen) the ae900 pictures seems to be bigger. I'm a bit puzzled by this.

Some advise would be great!

Well, according to the specs on Projector Central, they should be the same. Are you sure the zoom ring is set the same on both or are you pushing the projector to one of the extreme ends of the zoom range?

While that's generally true, it's not with the AE900 and other projectors with high zoom ratios. Take a look at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6374642&&#post6374642) from earlier in this thread.


Exactly Mike........... the reviewers have found this same exact situation with Sony's new 1080p Ruby. If you want all the lumens out of the light engine you have to mount the projector at the close end of the zoom range for the size screen.

Apparently as you close down the lens to project the light farther a lot of light is getting trapped inside the projector... it is a lot bigger drop than the inverse square law would account for.

I am not saying this happens on all projectors... and it is interesting that the two it has been reported on both have "auto iris" control... however two very dependable people have measured and reported this on both the AE900 and the Ruby.

All

I've been a DLP owner for a while now and I'm still on the fence for going with an LCD. All the older LCD projectors at my company have color blemishes on them. Have any of the older Panny AE projectors started to do this?

I'm not keen to buy a projector that will wash out and get blochy in 2 years.



I believe these color blemishes are the result of dust on the LCD panels (a.k.a. dust blobs), which is something that a relatively dust-free environment and routine filter cleaning should minimize/eliminate. In the absence of those preventative measures, it's also something that can be remedied by cleaning the LCD panels (which will require factory service on the AE900, unless you are comfortable disassembling your projector once it's out of warranty).

BTW. DLP projectors are also subject to dust blobs, but the way the dust blobs degrade the picture differs due to the difference in technology. In LCD projectors, you have 3 seperate LCDs for Red, Green, and Blue. Since the dust settles in a different pattern on each LCD panel, dust blobs on LCD projectors are typically manifest as discoloration.

On an single chip DLP, you only have one DLP Chip (micro-mirrors) with a color wheel cycling through the colors. Hence, dust on the mirrors will disrupt all colors equally. On DLP projectors dust blobs manifest themselves as blotchy variances in brightness throughout the image, and are most noticeable in dark/black scenes. I would imagine a high-end 3-chip DLP projector would manifest dust blobs in much the same way as an LCD...but I've never seen this, so that's just speculation.

For what it's worth, I recently made the move from DLP (Mitsubishi HC900U) to LCD (AE900), and I have no regrets.

--
Bryce

Tnedator, from my perspective, if I don't notice it while watching program material, I don't notice it. If you don't notice VB while watching program material, you are probably cherry. In CKL's review of the PJ on avbuzz, he said the, "vertical banding is so minimal that we can ignore it."

Ultimately, it is your call, but if I had the level of VB you describe, I would call it a keeper.

uwasumadis, just because it is noticeable on a test pattern or a solid color screen does not mean that it will be noticeable on program matererial. But it might be, and if it is, it might be a problem if it end up being intrustive (which is not the same as noticeable).

My issue with VB is that it does vary from unit to unit and that there is a possibility that any given AE900 may have enough VB to constitute an issue. This can place a new owner of an AE900 in a difficult situation in that they may have to decide rather quickly whether the VB is going to be an issue. This is not always an easy thing to do without first watching a couple of dozen movies.

On my Sony 10HT, I lived with very poor black level, terrible contrast by the standards of today's PJ's (like maybe 200:1 after red filter tweaking), screen door and a half stuck-on pixel. I stopped noticing the screen door at 1.8 screen widths and I haven't noticed the half stuck on pixel in years. Of the over 100 people who were over to watch a movie, some several times, no one ever commented on the black level, contrast, screen door or stuck pixel, and everyone was impressed.

Projector Central had three units with no noticeable VB. CKL had a unit with VB that was not an issue for him while viewing program material. Cine4Home had three units, one or two of which had enough VB to be an issue. A sample size of seven isn't very useful, but out of those seven, one or two had enought VB to be an issue. My SWAG is that it might be the case that say one in twenty units may have enough VB to be an issue.

It seems to be the case that all units based on the D5 panels (all new 720P LCD PJs other than Sony's I believe) are susceptable to VB to one degree or another. Hitachi put their equivalent of the Panel Adjust in the user menu, not the service menu. In the TX200 manual, it states that even after using the control, some VB may remain.

I ended up in what I think of as a grey area. I do notice it now and again on program material, but I am also in the evaluative, slightly neurotic stage.

MikeSRC, as the output of the unit can vary by over a factor of two depending on zoom position, could you tell us where your zoom was set when you made your output measurements? My apologies if you have already provided this information, but I could not locate it.

I believe these color blemishes are the result of dust on the LCD panels (a.k.a. dust blobs), which is something that a relatively dust-free environment and routine filter cleaning should minimize/eliminate. In the absence of those preventative measures, it's also something that can be remedied by cleaning the LCD panels (which will require factory service on the AE900, unless you are comfortable disassembling your projector once it's out of warranty).

BTW. DLP projectors are also subject to dust blobs, but the way the dust blobs degrade the picture differs due to the difference in technology. In LCD projectors, you have 3 seperate LCDs for Red, Green, and Blue. Since the dust settles in a different pattern on each LCD panel, dust blobs on LCD projectors are typically manifest as discoloration.

On an single chip DLP, you only have one DLP Chip (micro-mirrors) with a color wheel cycling through the colors. Hence, dust on the mirrors will disrupt all colors equally. On DLP projectors dust blobs manifest themselves as blotchy variances in brightness throughout the image, and are most noticeable in dark/black scenes. I would imagine a high-end 3-chip DLP projector would manifest dust blobs in much the same way as an LCD...but I've never seen this, so that's just speculation.

For what it's worth, I recently made the move from DLP (Mitsubishi HC900U) to LCD (AE900), and I have no regrets.

--
Bryce

Thanks Bryce

I'm aware DLP can get dust build up but I'm pretty sure LCD can "fade" the old projectors we have the green has turned yellow etc. To quote projector central:

"A Potential Problem with LCD: Long Term Image Degradation

We believe that at the current commercial state of the art, LCD panels and polarizers will eventually degrade over time. However, the degree to which they will degrade is dependent upon a variety of factors. Some of those factors are related to the projector's light engine design and cooling system, the presence of internal UV filters, and so on. So some LCD projectors may have more of a tendency to degrade than others based on their design. On the other hand, some factors may be related to usage. If air filters are not cleaned when they need to be, the internal operating temperature will rise. Usage in a chronically warm environment may have an impact. We would not be surprised to discover that projectors used at higher elevations could be more susceptible to LCD degradation due to higher operating temperatures in thinner atmosphere.

However, this is all speculation. There is no reliable data on the subject of LCD failure rates by brand or model under various operating conditions. We know that the design of the light engine and cooling system will have a lot to do with the potential for panels and polarizers to degrade. So identical LCD panels placed in two differently designed projectors and operated in identical environments will not degrade along the same curve. Some models may begin to see some degradation in as little as 1000 to 2000 hours of use, and others may not suffer any noticeable change for many thousands of hours--long past the realistic life of the projector.

The bottom line is that there exists the possibility that those who invest in an LCD projector may find that an LCD panel and/or polarizer may eventually need replacement. This is not much of a problem if the unit is under warranty. But if it isn't, the replacement of an LCD panel will represent an unpleasant incremental investment in your projector that you were not anticipating. "

Just wondering if any of the early owners of Panasonic projectors have seen any degredation.

DLP definitely never degrades, it may get dust and other problems but the image is always on or off.

Kevin

pepar,

In the case of a Zoom lens which does not have constant aperture it depends on where in the zoom you are located. A 900 located closer to the screen allows for a wider aperture ~ f1.9. Further away for the same screen size, it incorporates the zoom which changes the f-stop, lowering the output per the f-stop setting, which varies about 1 stop throughout its range for the 900.

What you are saying is only true for constant aperture lenses.

ted
tvted & Mike SRC, I understand this, but why would it operate like that? I'd think more lumens should be outputted at the farthest distance (assuming a larger screen size). Can this variation in f-stop be known in advance and taken into consideration before mounting the projector?

Or, is this just physics? :)

Does converntional wisdom still hold for passing the image through the center of the lens to avoid possible distortions at the edge of the lens?

Exactly Mike........... the reviewers have found this same exact situation with Sony's new 1080p Ruby. If you want all the lumens out of the light engine you have to mount the projector at the close end of the zoom range for the size screen.

Apparently as you close down the lens to project the light farther a lot of light is getting trapped inside the projector... it is a lot bigger drop than the inverse square law would account for.

I am not saying this happens on all projectors... and it is interesting that the two it has been reported on both have "auto iris" control... however two very dependable people have measured and reported this on both the AE900 and the Ruby.

I guess no one reads what I post, as this has been addressed in several places. Heck we discussed it last year in the 700 thread - Aussie Bob pointed it out and we went from there. Its a result of the way lenses are designed. Focal length changes with zoom changes. Aperture is a measure of the lens opening in relation to focal length. This is referred to as F-stop which is a measure of light transmittance through a lens and is standardized as an inverse power law of 2. The larger the F-stop number the smaller the amount of light transmitted.

The spec in the 700 manual says this:
Manual zoom (1 - 2.0) / Manual focus
F 1.9 - 3.1, f 21.7 mm - 43.1 mm

I bet if you look in the 900 manual it will state the same thing

The F1.9 to 3.1 is greater than a stop which changes 1/2's or doubles the lumens depending on where you start and reflects the measured output on my 700 .

This is true because these lenses are not constant aperture unlike high end camera zoom lenses.

ted

tvted, I think it has more to do with the length of the thread than it does with no one reading posts. And while a search would bring up our posts on the vaiable f-stop inherent in all but the most expensive zoom lense designs, even the most fastidious of us forget to use it on occasion.

tvted & Mike SRC, I understand this, but why would it operate like that? I'd think more lumens should be outputted at the farthest distance (assuming a larger screen size). Can this variation in f-stop be known in advance and taken into consideration before mounting the projector?

Or, is this just physics? :)

Does converntional wisdom still hold for passing the image through the center of the lens to avoid possible distortions at the edge of the lens?

Physics ;)

As the unit moves closer to the screen less zoom is required, the focal length gets shorter as the zoom is now like a wide angle lens for a given screen thus the area of the aperture is greater hence more light.

Conventional wisdom holds as you are staying away from the curvature fo the glass.

If the specs are published for the lens - as they are in the 700 user manual - then yes it is simple to make those calculations.

Get something from the fridge and:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number
http://www.uscoles.com/fstop.htm

Nice HT btw
ted

tvted, I think it has more to do with the length of the thread than it does with no one reading posts. And while a search would bring up our posts on the vaiable f-stop inherent in all but the most expensive zoom lense designs, even the most fastidious of us forget to use it on occasion.

jacob,

You are likely right, I'll try to nice for my next three posts. ;)

ted

I'm finally going to try a third 900 and see if I can get one without the VB problem. I'm really hoping, if a third one is really bad I would have to say that there is very little chance at all of getting a VB free Panny. Anyway, I'm probably not supposed to do this, but if anyone is looking for one of these units,--------- edit (one of the top 4 sellers on pricegrabber.com) has a great price and a good 10 day return policy, no questions asked exchange. That's better than most. Might want to check it out, hope I didn't violate anything by saying that, but the price is fantastic.

buydig.com has a great price and a good 10 day return policy, no questions asked exchange. That's better than most. Might want to check it out, hope I didn't violate anything by saying that, but the price is fantastic.

The price may be good but be sure to buy from an authorized Panasonic Dealer if you ever want help in dealing with problems. Authorized dealers have the ability to work with Panasonic where others are simply pushing boxes out the door and may leave you hanging with your problem.

rsmith4321, I think a more attainable goal is getting a PJ with no VB that bothers you while watching program material.

Ignoring for the moment that a mod may well delete your post, reading the return policy at the site, it does not appear to be a no questions asked, 10 day return policy. My reading of the policy indicates a 10% restocking fee on returned merchandise. They do appear to have a reasonable defective item exhange policy. Of course that begs the question of what is 'defective'. I take it that in your case they haven't questioned your belief that the product was defective. If they start gettting a lot of request for exchanges, they may not treat everyone that way.

Actually I emailed them and it is no questioned asked exchange, %10 if you just change your mind, which is quite reasonable. I would ask them about it first though just to be sure. I edited it out of my original message. But as far as I can tell they are authorized, and they have some of the most and best feedback on pricegrabber. So who knows.

About the VB, of course that's all I want is a unit that I don't see it in normal viewing. So far both my units have show it up a lot especially in video, I just used the test grey image to help me tune it out, but I know if I see it a lot in the test, I will see it other times as wel

FWIW. At the moment, VisualApex is about 70.00 more than buydig, but they're throwing in one extra year warranty and they are authorized. Free shipping too.

Bud

Yes but they have a horrible return policy. If I get a VB unit it sounds to me like I'm stuck with a 20% restocking fee. The extra warranty doesn't help if they don't think my VB is bad enough to fix, as a previous poster mentioned about Panny support. I would much rather order from somewhere with a 10 day exchange, and 10% restocking if returned for money back. Pricegrabber's featured merchants are usually good about being authorized dealers etc. We better stop talking about this though before we get our post deleted :)

The price may be good but be sure to buy from an authorized Panasonic Dealer if you ever want help in dealing with problems. Authorized dealers have the ability to work with Panasonic where others are simply pushing boxes out the door and may leave you hanging with your problem.

Is there a list of authorized Panasonic Projector Dealers out there? I tried thier site but the facility there seems solely focused on local dealers - not internet ones.

One more question - any rumors/thoughts on what happens when the current rebate expires? I heard that Panny has extended the rebates in the past?

My budget is really timed for March of '06 to make the jump but I don't want to find that I'll pay more in March than if I found a way to swing it during this rebate.

Is there a list of authorized Panasonic Projector Dealers out there? I tried thier site but the facility there seems solely focused on local dealers - not internet ones.

You know everyone is always talking about "authorized dealers" for the Panny. I don't even know if there is such a thing. Either way, every dealer I've seen including the top ones I mentioned on pricegrabber say they have the rebate and full warranty. So if they aren't authorized, what's the difference, as long as you can get the rebate and warranty and a good return policy, I'm happy. I don't think Panasonic will give you a warranty problem no matter where you buy it from. I've had to send my 4805 in a couple of times for repair, and never did they ask me where I bought it from. They just fixed it. I'd like to hear from someone that bought one in the U.S. from any dealer, and Panasonic said they wouldn't respect the warranty, I doubt anyone has.

However, I am running into a very strange problem. Whenever I display a very bright scene (such as Windows Explorer which is almost completely white except for the letters), there is a loud wind howling sound from the projector. When I switch to a very dark scene (such as an interior scene from the Godfather), this sound almost completely disappears. If the scene brightness is in between, then so is this sound. And if the scene changes between bright and dark, then this sound changes accordingly.
I had the same problem. Very irritating. but then I made sure I connected the PJ to an earthed power outlet (or whatever it's called; please excuse my English)... and now the projector is quiet. :)

I'm not sure it was the lack of earthing that caused the problem, but it's worth checking if you have this problem.

i got my AE900 friday and watched it all weekend. All seems great no vb that i can see had a scrolling horizontal line a first but searching forums found it to be a ground loop put all components on same circuit it went away.

my question is now where to mount? my room is fairly good light control during day can be very good at night. the room is 25.5 ft long seating at 17.5 feet. I didn't get a screen yet I am projecting on wall but impressed with colors on wall i had bought a piece of parkland poly wall to compare with the poly wall the whites were brighter but the painted wall was more then acceptable and let me change sizes smaller during day when light control more difficult and larger at night. (the paint is benjamin moore eggshell finish pewter color sort of a medium gray) colors were good i did not see hot spots. I was watching hd football at 135-150 diag and 2.35 movies at 136 diag at 2.35 not including black bars .

now my question do I mount my projector at back of room apx 24 feet (easier installation in ceiling shorter cable runs ect.) or at 17 feet? Or will I be sorry if i mount at 24 ft when the brightness drops and will I want a smaller screen as most on board seem to have smaller screens eventually or will continue to watch at the present size?

i thank all who responded it seems distance does matter. the current brightness is good with the lens at 24 feet. will i be sorry in a few months if i leave it there when the bulb has a few hundred hour rather then new? Do you think i wont want to continue watching the screen so big once the newness of the projector wears off at this size. it really feels like your at the theater and everybody who comes over says wow and don't seem to have a problem watching it at this size.

Is it likely that the incidence and degree of VB in newly manufactured and sold units will lessen as more time passes? Does the manufacturer view VB as a defect which they are working to eliminate?

Yes but they have a horrible return policy. If I get a VB unit it sounds to me like I'm stuck with a 20% restocking fee. The extra warranty doesn't help if they don't think my VB is bad enough to fix, as a previous poster mentioned about Panny support. I would much rather order from somewhere with a 10 day exchange, and 10% restocking if returned for money back. Pricegrabber's featured merchants are usually good about being authorized dealers etc. We better stop talking about this though before we get our post deleted :)

The forum sponsor right at the bottom of this page offers a "no restocking fee," 7 day/10 hour trial period on the 900.

It doesn't get much better than that.

Overscan Off and 16:9

Strange. When I select those settings, I get a black bar on the bottom of a 1.85:1 image, but not at the top. Setting Overscan to On fills the screen.

MikeSRC, as the output of the unit can vary by over a factor of two depending on zoom position, could you tell us where your zoom was set when you made your output measurements? My apologies if you have already provided this information, but I could not locate it.

I'm right in the middle of the zoom range at about 1.45X. I don't recall seeing it, but if someone has measured the output at various distances (not just the extremes), is the effect on the output level linear, or is most of the increase and decrease in output level at the extremes?

BTW, I've seen one other "stock" unit besides my own and it didn't have any VB either. The others I've seen have been fine, but they were part of Panny's presentation.

I do believe the 900 improves on the 700 but I guess I wan't clear. I already own a filter calibrated 700. What I'm looking for is a value attached to the cost differential of selling the unt and buying a 900 - if such an estimate is possible. Is that worth say $1K U.S. hit that you might take?

ted

As someone who works in the ad industry, the one thing you can always count on is irrational behavior on the part of consumers. Perceived value is such a constant that I don't know what I'd do without it.

From a typical consumers standpoint then, I really think that's an impossible question to answer. Some might pay a thousand dollars just for the fact that it's the newer model. That's kinda what I'v done, and I'll be happy because of it.

If i was to be rational though, I would pass. The posts i referred to earlier all make mention of how much the upgrade was worth, and all agreed, "not that much". Most were disappointed, either by buyer regret or who knows what else. Your 1000k simply won't be rewarded unless your a tad irrational like me, insisting on the newest, just for the sake of doing so.

Mildly better blacks, slightly quieter operation--worth 1000k? If you perceive it would be, then yes.

Strange. When I select those settings, I get a black bar on the bottom of a 1.85:1 image, but not at the top. Setting Overscan to On fills the screen.

That shouldn't happen with a 720p feed over HDMI. What's your source?

You know everyone is always talking about "authorized dealers" for the Panny. I don't even know if there is such a thing.

There is, but you're right that it doesn't matter regarding the warranty. You will get warranty coverage from anyone selling U.S. merchandise (obtained legally of course). ;)

Strange. When I select those settings, I get a black bar on the bottom of a 1.85:1 image, but not at the top. Setting Overscan to On fills the screen.

If you have DVE or AVIA you can set the POSITION by looking at the overscan test pattern. It is possible the pic positon is not centered.

ted

Mildly better blacks, slightly quieter operation--worth 1000k? If you perceive it would be, then yes.

Rational has never been my forte.

As to blacks -- I thought CKL was able to get 4K:1 with a filter. I would also like to get 1:1 on HDMI. Thanks for your input - I'm still inclined to await C2Fine panels before I up it.

ted

That shouldn't happen with a 720p feed over HDMI. What's your source?

Mike,

POSITION works fine for HDMI on my 700.

ted

I guess that's it, Ted, but I'm not used to having to adjust the default position settings.

tvted,
Did you have to adjust the image position on your 700? Will that affect the position of all 720P sources?

Like MikeSRC, I've never had to change default positions before, for a digital or analog source. My source is a 59AVi outputting 720P over HDMI.

I dunno - btw that is not necessarily "it".

I just did it for my PC sources. It was off a pixel or two in both directions. Is that not in your experience or you don't think 1:1 can be shifted? Pixel clock should allow for that I would think.

bubbawilly Each source has its own POSITION menu on my 700

ted

AFAIK, the clock settings are not available for HDMI. You do have the position settings, but you shouldn't have to use them to eliminate a black bar. I've seen some differences between an upscaling DVD and an HD source, but they're usually pretty minor. How big of a black bar are we talking about (vertical height)?

You shouldn't need to replace it if you keep it clean, but I think the only place you can get one is through Panasonic's parts department


Haven't gotten mine up and running yet. I am in a brand new house and dust, at least for now, is around like crazy. Is there instructions in the manual for proper cleaning? If not, any suggestions? This will be my first projector.

uwamsumadis, you can download the manaul from Panasonic's site. It does include instuctions on cleaning the filter.

MikeSRC, I wouldn't pretend to know enough about the design of variable f-stop zoom lenses to know whether the amount of light that passes through is linearly proportional to the focal length setting or not. All I do know is that less than half the light will be output at the full telephoto position on the zoom I think that the issue of large zoom range lenses and light output is covered in detail on the Ruby thread by the fellow who did the review.

I think that folk don't notice it because the projector distance from the screen is usually a given. Putting the PJ on a rolling cart and moving it back from the screen while zooming from full-wide to full-tele isn't something that most folk contemplate. On the other hand, if I had suitable measuring equipment, ...