Panny AE900 Official Thread- Please post here! [Text View] - Page 11

ABCD

12-21-05, 02:32 AM

Thanks Bryce

I'm aware DLP can get dust build up but I'm pretty sure LCD can "fade" the old projectors we have the green has turned yellow etc. To quote projector central:

"A Potential Problem with LCD: Long Term Image Degradation

We believe that at the current commercial state of the art, LCD panels and polarizers will eventually degrade over time. However, the degree to which they will degrade is dependent upon a variety of factors. Some of those factors are related to the projector's light engine design and cooling system, the presence of internal UV filters, and so on. So some LCD projectors may have more of a tendency to degrade than others based on their design. On the other hand, some factors may be related to usage. If air filters are not cleaned when they need to be, the internal operating temperature will rise. Usage in a chronically warm environment may have an impact. We would not be surprised to discover that projectors used at higher elevations could be more susceptible to LCD degradation due to higher operating temperatures in thinner atmosphere.

However, this is all speculation. There is no reliable data on the subject of LCD failure rates by brand or model under various operating conditions. We know that the design of the light engine and cooling system will have a lot to do with the potential for panels and polarizers to degrade. So identical LCD panels placed in two differently designed projectors and operated in identical environments will not degrade along the same curve. Some models may begin to see some degradation in as little as 1000 to 2000 hours of use, and others may not suffer any noticeable change for many thousands of hours--long past the realistic life of the projector.

The bottom line is that there exists the possibility that those who invest in an LCD projector may find that an LCD panel and/or polarizer may eventually need replacement. This is not much of a problem if the unit is under warranty. But if it isn't, the replacement of an LCD panel will represent an unpleasant incremental investment in your projector that you were not anticipating. "

Just wondering if any of the early owners of Panasonic projectors have seen any degredation.

DLP definitely never degrades, it may get dust and other problems but the image is always on or off.

Kevin

It has been my experience that LCDs definitely fade. I usually upgrade my projector about once per year, and have had the Panasonic AE100, 300, 700, and currently the 900. The colors in all cases look faded after 1 year. They also look dimmer because the bulb has aged, but I believe these are 2 separate issues.

I will probably continue to upgrade every year, the fading being one of the reasons. I am leaning towards running my fan in the higher mode to see if it helps.

rwestley

12-21-05, 06:15 AM

Improvements have been made to the new D5 panels. As has been pointed out a blub will dim in any projector after time. This is a seperate issue. Regarding fading in LCD's I don't think it should be a real problem unless you don't clean the filter and allow dirt to build up.

I know of people who have had thousands of hours on LCD projetors. I would guess that by the time the average user has fading problems from the polorizers or panels it will be time to replace the projector. Again the most important thing is to allow for good air flow and to keep the filters clean.

pepar

12-21-05, 07:38 AM

Improvements have been made to the new D5 panels.
In a private email exchange, Audioholics' reviewer Clint DeBoer mentioned "D9" panels and how he was anxious to text a projector with them.

tvted: What are "C2Fine" panels?

I was unable to find anything googling D9 LCD panels. Can anyone bring me up to speed or point me to where I can "see" what's around the corner in the next round of projectors?

rotelryu

12-21-05, 09:11 AM

Xbox360/Panny 900 DVD problem Xbox360

I've connected my Xbox 360 to my Panasonic pt-ae900. Games look amazing with it, but every DVD I put in is severely distorted. Broad reddish horizontal lines are jumping up and down the screen.
The same movie-dvds work fine on my regular DVD-player through the PJ.
Anybody know what causes this? De-interlacing? What can be done about this? It's really unwatchable this way...
Xbox is connected to PJ using component. Xbox is set to 720p. Panny 900 is a native 720p PJ. I really want to watch DVDs with the Xbox360: the picture is a lot sharper. The artefacts make it unwatchable though. Plz help...

(I'm posting this in an Xbox360/HT-thread as well)

Same problem here. switching to standard tv(through the switch on the component cable) takes away the artefacts but it means that you are watching SD interlaced. In my quest to figure it out I did notice that home made copies (on a dvd r machine) did not exhibit these "lines", so it got me thinking that maybe it has to do with some sort of macrovision kicking in? Did you connect the 360 directly to the 900 or is it linked through a receiver (in my case through a rotel rsx1055).

jsm88

12-21-05, 09:22 AM

Another question on new ae900:

noticed something odd - when viewing HD content, specifically a video montage that PBS-HD uses in between shows (very high quality video specific to DC/VA, I assume they do local versions in other areas) each time there was a cut to a new setting the entire image pixelated for a moment before smoothing out - much like one of the old low-bandwidth web picture standards, where you would see a full picture with half the data that would gradually become full res as the browser downloaded the whole image. I thought is was just a feature of the video (though I had watched it dozens of times before and never noticed) but then I did notice it when viewing some other HD content. My thoughts on the possibilities are:

1) It's my cable box, it's always happened, and I just didn't notice it on my X1 due to resolution/dcdi/lower picture size/brightness

2) It's the video source - this is a cut they use in hd video (really unlikely)

3) It's the video source - RCN is throttling bandwidth - creating a similar effect to the old internet picture issue I mentioned above.
- this actually makes some sense to me due to the fact that it only happens on the cuts - the compression algorithms have no problem dealing with a changing version of the same shot, but when you change to an entirely different scene there is a sudden increase in the necessary bandwidth.

4) And this is the one I'm worried about - It is the video processor in the (my?) AE900 that somehow cannot handle the bandwidth demand all at once. I know that TI uses rambus tech with their dlps to avoid any video bandwidth issues, I don't know what epson set up for their chips, or if they even set a standard.

Has any one seen this effect? Any thoughts/advice/comments? Thanks.

rwestley

12-21-05, 09:59 AM

jsm88

12-21-05, 10:28 AM

JSM88, I have had a similar problem with PBS. Try to turn the Cinema Reality control off on the projector. It worked for me. I have also noticed the problem on other stations and I had the same problem on the AE700. Someone in one of the 700 threads tried turning off Cinema Reaity and it worked. I tried it on the 900 and t also seems to help. I would love to have someone else try this and report back. It seems that Cinema Reality is for films with 24fps and there may be a confict with video.

You are a gentleman - thank you - I am not home to check it but I feel certain this will do the trick. Cinema reality involves processing the video stream and sounds like exactly the kind of thing that would cause what I saw.

Now, while I'm at it, another issue - watched House in HD last night, now while the rest of the HD content was beautiful, and House used to look great on my X1 in HD, it was grainy and just not very smooth looking - I have seen this in old 90's reruns where the studios didn't preserve the tapes very well and you have degredation, but I can't imagine that this is the case with a new show, particularly one shot in HD.

Side note - isn't it ironic that shows shot on film in the 60's and 70's look better today in HD, due to the better quailty of the images transferred from film and the better longevity of film vs. video, then the tv shows of the 80s and 90s. I don't know if you've ever watched Hogans Heros on HDNet but It's as good as any HD film compared to most other sitcoms/tv shows

bubbawilly

12-21-05, 12:58 PM

AFAIK, the clock settings are not available for HDMI. You do have the position settings, but you shouldn't have to use them to eliminate a black bar. I've seen some differences between an upscaling DVD and an HD source, but they're usually pretty minor. How big of a black bar are we talking about (vertical height)?

The bar at the bottom is approximately 2" high. More than just a pixel or two. Setting the projector's overscan to "On" eliminates the bottom bar and fills the screen perfectly, but I'm not sure what else it's doing. Probably cropping all around. I would expect HDMI delivered to the projector in its native 720P resolution to map to the panels perfectly, regardles of aspect ratio, but it does not. I'd suspect the player if it hadn't worked perfectly with a different brand of projector.

I'm exchanging the projector (for a different reason), so I'll check the new one out when it arrives tomorrow. This will be my 3rd 900. I don't recall the first 900 displaying the black bar, but I can't be certain since it had a different defect, and I didn't spend much time with it once I discovered the problem.

byancey

12-21-05, 01:12 PM

i thank all who responded it seems distance does matter. the current brightness is good with the lens at 24 feet. will i be sorry in a few months f i leave it there when the bulb has a few hundred hour rather then new? Do you think i wont want to continue watching the screen so big once the newness of the projector wears off at this size. it really feels like your at the theater and everybody who comes over says wow and don't seem to have a problem watching it at this size.

Here's an interesting twist. All the discussion I've seen on this issue has been with respect to the brightness of a fixed image size at different throw distances. However, if it's true that the AE900 will throw a brighter 120" image at 10' than at 20', then it's also true that the AE900 will output less light as you project a smaller image from a fixed throw distance. In other words, reducing the image size on the AE900 using the zoom lense will not necesasrily buy you an increase in image brightness (or at least not the increase one might expect).

This is consistent with my own observations. Since moving to the AE900, I have noticed that when zooming out to a very small image size, the increase in brightness was not as significant as what I recalled from my previous projectors. In fact, the brightness level seems fairly consistent across the zoom range. I thought perhaps this was my imagination...but I suppose I now have a better explanation. :)

I will say that I'm glad I wasn't aware of this before I purchased my AE900. I was nervous enough about moving from DLP to LCD as it were. I have a relatively long throw distance, and if I thought I would also be dealing with a dim image, I might not have taken the plunge...but I'm certainly glad I did. I currently have no regrets and no issues with image brightness, even at a reletively long throw distance. I have my AE900 mounted 21'6" from the screen throwing a 133" diagonal image. The image looks fantastic and is plenty bright (about 100 hours on the bulb now). This is with the projector running in low lamp mode and projecting onto a 1.0 gain screen surface.

As the bulb ages and lumen output drops, going with a smaller image size no longer appears to be an option, and moving the projector closer is also not an option. However, I figure I have a couple of other options to compensate for loss of brightness if necessary:
Bump the bulb up to high-lamp mode. Obviously this will shorten the remaining lamp life...but it may be a worthy trade-off at some point.
Upgrade to a higher gain screen surface. I estimate I could get enough Draper m2500 fabric (2.0 gain) to cover my projection surface for less than the price of a new bulb (though my wife insists we buy fabric for valences elsewhere in the house before we even consider screen fabric). :rolleyes: :)

--
Bryce

jeffropaige

12-21-05, 01:55 PM

im having a problem with the ae900 im getting a weird noise on the panel. it looks like vertical streaking (not vb) its looks kinda like rain hitting a window and streaking to the right???????? it is more noticable if i turn the brightness up. im using a ps2 (playing s.w. epIII) which aint the best dvd player but i have not seen it on the ae700 or my 32 hdtv lcd from sony. anybody else having this problem or maybe i should just switch with a new ae900? thanks jeff

rwestley

12-21-05, 02:00 PM

kevini

12-21-05, 02:05 PM

It has been my experience that LCDs definitely fade. I usually upgrade my projector about once per year, and have had the Panasonic AE100, 300, 700, and currently the 900. The colors in all cases look faded after 1 year. They also look dimmer because the bulb has aged, but I believe these are 2 separate issues.

I will probably continue to upgrade every year, the fading being one of the reasons. I am leaning towards running my fan in the higher mode to see if it helps.

Thanks ABCD, thats what I figured

HiHoStevo

12-21-05, 03:41 PM

There is, but you're right that it doesn't matter regarding the warranty. You will get warranty coverage from anyone selling U.S. merchandise (obtained legally of course). ;)

Just make sure you don't pick up one of the inexpensive AE900E models without KNOWING what you are getting into ahead of time........ :D

HiHoStevo

12-21-05, 05:13 PM

Here's an interesting twist. All the discussion I've seen on this issue has been with respect to the brightness of a fixed image size at different throw distances. However, if it's true that the AE900 will throw a brighter 120" image at 10' than at 20', then it's also true that the AE900 will output less light as you project a smaller image from a fixed throw distance. In other words, reducing the image size on the AE900 using the zoom lense will not necesasrily buy you an increase in image brightness (or at least not the increase one might expect).

This is consistent with my own observations. Since moving to the AE900, I have noticed that when zooming out to a very small image size, the increase in brightness was not as significant as what I recalled from my previous projectors. In fact, the brightness level seems fairly consistent across the zoom range. I thought perhaps this was my imagination...but I suppose I now have a better explanation. :)

I will say that I'm glad I wasn't aware of this before I purchased my AE900. I was nervous enough about moving from DLP to LCD as it were. I have a relatively long throw distance, and if I thought I would also be dealing with a dim image, I might not have taken the plunge...but I'm certainly glad I did. I currently have no regrets and no issues with image brightness, even at a reletively long throw distance. I have my AE900 mounted 21'6" from the screen throwing a 133" diagonal image. The image looks fantastic and is plenty bright (about 100 hours on the bulb now). This is with the projector running in low lamp mode and projecting onto a 1.0 gain screen surface.

As the bulb ages and lumen output drops, going with a smaller image size no longer appears to be an option, and moving the projector closer is also not an option. However, I figure I have a couple of other options to compensate for loss of brightness if necessary:
Bump the bulb up to high-lamp mode. Obviously this will shorten the remaining lamp life...but it may be a worthy trade-off at some point.
Upgrade to a higher gain screen surface. I estimate I could get enough Draper m2500 fabric (2.0 gain) to cover my projection surface for less than the price of a new bulb (though my wife insists we buy fabric for valences elsewhere in the house before we even consider screen fabric). :rolleyes: :)

--
Bryce

Hello Bryce.....

I am in a similar situation....

I currently have a BenQ 8700+ DLP which I have enjoyed immensely for 1900 hours & 19 Months. However, my house is for sale and I presume the 8700 will be lost.

I am considering purchasing the AE900 as a stop-gap while I wait for the exciting stuff that I expect to hit the market next year... I think it will be a year of falling prices!

Anyway I was wondering what DLP you had before you purchased your 900?

The 900 has some real nice features especially in flexible mounting, but I have others tell me that once you've had DLP that I will not be happy with LCD... (dust blobs, filters to clean, image not as 3d like... etc)

Thanks,

dvdnz

12-21-05, 07:44 PM

RoodyPooUS

12-21-05, 08:22 PM

Two problems

Just upgraded my AE300 to AE900 (involuntarily -- the former died at 5000 hours from a slow ceiling leak we didn't know about -- insurance refused coverage too, brrrrrrr!).

Have noticed two things:

* The 900 is too quiet -- when I turn it on, I need to look at the projector to see if the green light is on, otherwise I tend to think it didn't get the remote signal. <g>

* More seriously, when I view the satellite/cable's electronic programme guide, I see a LOT of flicker on the text and captions that I didn't see with the 300. Not sure if the normal programme images are as bad, but they do feel a tad less stable. I could be wrong about that though.

* Can't say the DVDs I've tested look any better than they did either, and possibly less good. It's as if the higher quality image results in lower quality with older components that the system can't compensate for.

The connections are no different from what I used with the 300 -- straight composite video, as both the satellite and (oldish) DVD only have that output. Are there any tweaks I can adopt which might help things along? Tried turning off NR, Cinema reality and adjusting things like sharpness, with no visible difference.

I just installed the projector yesturday and spent the whole time checking out reference DVDs and watching TV, checking computer output.

It looks that I will have to buy an HDMI switcher for my HDTV and especially for my PC. The VGA quality is decent but the projector can handle so much better that I think my potential is not being used at its full capabilities. I also felt this watching some older DVDs such as Dracula and Wing Commander. The newer DVDs such as Star Wars Episode II and Lord of the Rings were much better, although still not as amazing as HDTV.

It seems to me that the full capabilities of the projector really come into effect watching HDTV and nothing less. (Yes I am upscaling to DVDs to 1080i via an Oppo)

Does anyone else feel the same?

boykster

12-21-05, 08:47 PM

The connections are no different from what I used with the 300 -- straight composite video, as both the satellite and (oldish) DVD only have that output. Are there any tweaks I can adopt which might help things along? Tried turning off NR, Cinema reality and adjusting things like sharpness, with no visible difference.

The biggest improvement you'll see is if you get a reasonably new dvd player with either Component or HDMI/DVI connection. On pretty much any display, the quality improvement you will see with component vs composite is very dramatic.

If you don't mind running a DVI/HDMI cable (I don't know your setup) you might check out the Oppo upscaling dvd player...its inexpensive, upscales dvd's to 720p or 1080i, and will blow your old dvd player away.

Otherwise, you are correct. HD displays are GREAT with good quality sources....but they really show off defects much more so than "poorer" displays. Several years ago I upraged from a 25" tube tv to a 36" sony XBR450 HighScan set....oh my DVDs looked incredible, but gez, the cable box looked HORRIBLE. You learn to get used to it, and in some cases, the SD can be made to look better as well. I have a comcast box that actually does a good job with SD.

Cheers

Rich

kenyee

12-21-05, 09:19 PM

I am considering purchasing the AE900 as a stop-gap while I wait for the exciting stuff that I expect to hit the market next year... I think it will be a year of falling prices!

ok...I'll bite. What'll be better than the AE900 next year?
No inexpensive ($1500-2K) 1080p projectors on the horizon that I know of :)

pepar

12-21-05, 09:33 PM

More seriously, when I view the satellite/cable's electronic programme guide, I see a LOT of flicker on the text and captions that I didn't see with the 300. Not sure if the normal programme images are as bad, but they do feel a tad less stable. I could be wrong about that though.

* Can't say the DVDs I've tested look any better than they did either, and possibly less good. It's as if the higher quality image results in lower quality with older components that the system can't compensate for.

The connections are no different from what I used with the 300 -- straight composite video, as both the satellite and (oldish) DVD only have that output. Are there any tweaks I can adopt which might help things along? Tried turning off NR, Cinema reality and adjusting things like sharpness, with no visible difference.
boykster nailed it; the tweak you need to make is to upgrade to a good DVD player with at least component output, preferably DVI/HDMI and even more preferably, an upscaling DVD player.

HiHoStevo

12-21-05, 10:37 PM

ok...I'll bite. What'll be better than the AE900 next year?
No inexpensive ($1500-2K) 1080p projectors on the horizon that I know of :)

Not that I know of.... :p

But I suspect there will be a bunch of action in the $2.5k to $4k market...

The DLP folks are going to have to react to Sony's Ruby... which has to have rattled a few cages.

Sony is rumored to have more SXRD good stuff coming down the road....

The LCD crowd has two new sets of LCD panels coming... one from Epson the other from Sony and both are supposed to be big upgrades to the existing technology.

All-in-all a pretty neat year or so on the horizon.... :D

dvdnz

12-21-05, 10:52 PM

Rich wrote:

The biggest improvement you'll see is if you get a reasonably new dvd player with either Component or HDMI/DVI connection. On pretty much any display, the quality improvement you will see with component vs composite is very dramatic.

I have a basic but component-video-capable DVD player in a room upstairs (where I just use the end wall when projecting). When I tested it with the AE300 a year or two ago, I confess I didn't see any difference between a composite and a component-video connection.

But perhaps bringing it down to do a check with the 900 is in order, it may be as compelling as you say.

Pity about the cable limitations, I was hoping there'd a be a magic wand in the settings somewhere.

HiHoStevo

12-21-05, 11:02 PM

pepar

12-21-05, 11:54 PM

The LCD crowd has two new sets of LCD panels coming... one from Epson the other from Sony and both are supposed to be big upgrades to the existing technology.
Can you possibly elaborate on this a bit?

pepar

12-21-05, 11:56 PM

The Composite connection will only allow so much data to be transferred.......

Trust me, get an Oppo 971H and use the included DVI-HDMI cable to connect it to the projector... you will be amazed at the difference.
In the interim, he'll probably be amazed at merely swapping in his component video-out player.

jstein

12-22-05, 12:39 AM

Peppar, the new Epson panel is the C2Fine I believe. I am sure that a search will yield lots of info. I don't know about Sony's new chip.

But next year is bound to be good for the consumer. We will enter 2006 with very reasonable sub $2K 720P LCD PJ's, and sub $10K 1080P LCD PJ's. The year will put tremendous pricing pressure on the DLP vendors. As a friend of mine put it, the LCD PJ manufacturers have followed the PC pricing model where in each succeeding generation you get more for less. For example, my Sony 10HT cost over $5K five years ago. DLP manufacturers seem to have followed a model akin to a PC that is 150% as fast as your old one costing 25% more than the old one. I think that era is over for the DLP PJ manufacrturers.

In addition, it seems to me that Sony has two technical hurdles to overcome before it has technology that might allow them to dominate the display market once again as they did in the Trinitron era (three if you count bulbs priced lower than the bulbs for the Ruby). Sony LCD projectors have suffered from low output and more SDE than PJ's based on Epson panels. Their SXRD technology solves the SDE problem as well as providing for 1080P. Sony seems to have already nailed VB and panel noise, and does a fine job with blacks relative to other LCD PJ's.

These kinds of forces are likely to lead to further commoditization of 720P PJ's and will soon yield a below $5k 1080P solution (I think and hope).

Tnedator

12-22-05, 12:44 AM

Jstein, hope your right. I decided not to ride the 900 vb rollercoaster and have returned my 900. It's a shame, because I thought the color and overall picture was great, but certain scenes the VB was just to distracting, even after minimizing it with some tweaking.

I decided to hold off making a decision until after CES, and then seeing where the LCD's and low-end dark chip DLP projectors flush out.

It's a bummer, I have my new 119" 16:9 Carada screen mounted and am now projecting my old PB6100 93" 4:3 image onto it. At least the BW screen is helping the 2,000 bulb.

boykster

12-22-05, 12:50 AM

In the interim, he'll probably be amazed at merely swapping in his component video-out player.

True....frankly a GOOD quality non-upscaling component out dvd player will produce an amazing picture. I drive my AE900 (as well as several other displays) with a Panasonic RP-82 dvd player - 480p via component. The picture is, simply put, spectacular.

I also have 2 HTPCs (ATI radeon via component, ffdshow upscaling, nvidia dvd filters, zoomplayer) that look great as well, even better than the RP82, but not jaw-droppingly so (I use them because I rip my dvd's to a media server, and use these for playback). I have considered upscaling players (in fact I have a zenith 318) and will probably get an oppo or other at some pt.

Try your older component player and see what happens...

Rich

HiHoStevo

12-22-05, 02:08 AM

Peppar, the new Epson panel is the Cine2Fine I believe. I am sure that a search will yield lots of info. I don't know about Sony's new chip.

I believe the Sony Technology is called Bi:NA. Supposed to be a major leap forward from the current LCD's they are producing... which as Mr. Stein pointed out have made leaps in VB, but have lagged behind in lumens and SDE. (IMHO of course :D )

Prickelpit

12-22-05, 06:36 AM

Sorry to bother you once more with my VB-problem:
I tried to tweak it by changing the panel adjustments in the service menu - problem is that in this menu I cannot really SEE VB (the range of changing possibilities is not that big that I could go to extremes to make it visible for me ...) but I do see VB in movie scenes a lot, even sometimes in close ups of faces (I watched Tim Burtons "Charlie and the chocolate factory" yesterday and got annoied by VB many times during the movie ...)

So once again: please can you tell me what I have to do in the service menu with the panel adjustment tweak ???

I´m using the Panasonic S97 via HDMI at my AE900, upscaling to 720p. I´m projecting on a white wall, width 110''

Thanks a lot for any help in advance,
prickelpit

rwestley

12-22-05, 07:25 AM

I am wondering if you are seeing VB or someting else. I have never seen VB on faces.

Check out the VB thread. There are some pictures.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=578316&highlight=vb

manufanatic

12-22-05, 07:39 AM

Just wondering if anyone received the rebate back yet. I know its early days but just interested.

thought i would ask this question again.

I still havent received my rebate anyone who has please chime in.

rotelryu

12-22-05, 07:59 AM

It seems to me that the full capabilities of the projector really come into effect watching HDTV and nothing less. (Yes I am upscaling to DVDs to 1080i via an Oppo)

Does anyone else feel the same?

I wouldn't really know, the only experience I have with HDTV resolution is through xbox 360 (spectacular, BTW). But I do notice that the 1080i setting on the 360 dashboard is of lesser quality than choosing 720p. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the latter is also the native resolution of the 900 and therefore it is really plausible that it gives better result than to upscale to 1080i.
So, I would try to upscale to 720p via the Oppo, in that way you can yield the maximum result out of SD material.

tvted

12-22-05, 08:47 AM

AFAIK, the clock settings are not available for HDMI. You do have the position settings, but you shouldn't have to use them to eliminate a black bar. I've seen some differences between an upscaling DVD and an HD source, but they're usually pretty minor. How big of a black bar are we talking about (vertical height)?

Mike,
You are absolutely right of course, giving the end user access to dot clock is likely to create some funky displays. :o

Now watch me skate.... ;)

I meant display synch. :rolleyes: (ducking)

In my analog world (our part of the plant is about two years from a complete transition) picture position is defined in terms of front porch / back porch (synch width). With our digital signals, synch is regenerated. Is picture start/end embedded in the bitstream or is it assumed?

I ask this because of the difficulties with the recent OPPO software that created image offset with the 900, so it is obvious source has an impact (and in some source at my plant we have to realign video position) - the 900's POSITION settings are not enough to bring it into line in this particular case.

If you can comment or point me (I've tried Google) in the right direction as its likely time to learn something about this though I'm not an engineer.

Thanks for your correction Mike (grumble :) )
ted

tvted

12-22-05, 09:03 AM

tvted: What are "C2Fine" panels?

pepar,

Here is some info re the upcoming EPSON panels.
Press mention (http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050525/105051/?ST=english)
An AVS thread earlier in the year (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=541003&goto=nextnewest)

The SONY panel
Press Release (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200502/05-007E/)

That's about it - not a lot of "real" info at this time.
Expectations are PJ's at CEDIA in Sept. 06 - perhaps some prototypes at CES in Jan.

ted

outnumbered

12-22-05, 12:32 PM

first time posting - so please be nice :)

I'm looking to purchase a panny 900. This will be my first FP. After reading all the threads here (scary enough not to want to purchase any FP!), I would like to know what testing one would need to perform on the the 900 during the first 7 days I have before I can return the unit without any restocking fees? I think if someone can put together some sort of list that covers most all the areas of concern (dead pixels, VB, etc.), so that a first time FP user can feel comfotable with their purchase, it would be of great help.

Thanks in advance

gashog301

12-22-05, 12:39 PM

dont be scared, I just got my first one yesterday and I could not be more happy. This thing rocks and i was just shooting it on a white wall.

jsm88

12-22-05, 12:41 PM

JSM88, I hope that turning off Cinema Reality works for you, Please post results.

Regarding you experience with certain sources or films. I do know that some other films will look better on cheaper or older projectors. The reason for this I think is that the AE900 is so good that it shows up much more from the original source. That is the reason why newer HD sources look so good. The problem you describe reminds me of an experience when I got a new TV and certain sources looked bad. I soon realized that the problem was with the old TV not showing all the detail. Rember the old saying "Garbage in Garbage out."
I am refering to the source not the material.

turning off cinema reality did the trick. thanks again. I would agree in general on gi/go but here the "House" source should have been of very high quality (as they had been on their first broadcast last year.)

Actually, one of the interesting things that pjs helped me prove (and get the cable company to admit) is that even more then the quality of the source material, with digital cable it is amount of bandwidth allocated by the cable company to each channel that makes a huge difference in image quality. When I first got my X1 I noticed that some SD channels looked much better then others, and it didn't seem to have much to do with the quality of the source. The pay (hbo, sho) SD channels were by far the best quality even when the actual video was not (ie reruns of their older sitcoms). After much denial, the and discussion, a VP at RCN (we were having other issues and I was helping them stay in a large apt complex during the bankruptcy) admitted that not only do they allocate different bandwidths to each channel on their digital service, but that this is tied to agreements with the content providers, subscription levels, and the number of folks who actually tune in to particular channels. Anyway - one more thing to take into account when choosing a provider. BACK On Top - I expect that the higher quality of my ae900 will expose this practice even more ;)

scotty144

12-22-05, 12:44 PM

rlg3

12-22-05, 01:15 PM

Can I have the AE 900 at a throw distance of 9'6" and a 84" screen and get a great image?

mtnsean

12-22-05, 01:32 PM

turning off cinema reality did the trick. thanks again. I would agree in general on gi/go but here the "House" source should have been of very high quality (as they had been on their first broadcast last year.)

jsm88, rwestly-

I think what you both are describing is the same thing I'm seeing with my Panny (I posted my experience near the top of p. 81 of this thread). When the camera jumps between scenes, or just different camera angles, and I'm 1) feeding 1080i and 2) Cinema Reality is "on", I see what looks like a screwy job at deinterlacing - I actually see the gaps between the scan lines. If I either 1) feed 720p, so no deinterlacing on the Panny required, or 2) turn Cinema Reality "off", this artifact goes away. However, when CR is off, I see a generally lower quality picture which is evident if you look at some video with text up close - the lettering sort of "flickers".

Can either of you confirm whether this only happens when you're feeding an interlaced signal? Just to be clear, if I feed progressive, I don't see any problems, and CR is a greyed-out option. If I feed interlaced and CR is off, I don't see the interlacing artifact, but I do see a lower-quality picture overall. If I feed interlaced and turn CR on, the picture looks good on relatively static scenes, but I get the interlacing artifact on camera changes (or even changing channels actually).

I'd like to know whether this is a flaw in just my pj, or if it's just that the Panny 900 doesn't do a very good job interpreting film/video flags and deinterlacing with proper 3:2 pulldown, etc. My guess is that with CR on, the Panny is doing pulldown in many cases where it shouldn't.

Thanks,
Sean

simpsonb

12-22-05, 01:45 PM

jsm88

12-22-05, 01:49 PM

jsm88, rwestly-

I think what you both are describing is the same thing I'm seeing with my Panny (I posted my experience near the top of p. 81 of this thread). When the camera jumps between scenes, or just different camera angles, and I'm 1) feeding 1080i and 2) Cinema Reality is "on", I see what looks like a screwy job at deinterlacing - I actually see the gaps between the scan lines. If I either 1) feed 720p, so no deinterlacing on the Panny required, or 2) turn Cinema Reality "off", this artifact goes away. However, when CR is off, I see a generally lower quality picture which is evident if you look at some video with text up close - the lettering sort of "flickers".

Can either of you confirm whether this only happens when you're feeding an interlaced signal? Just to be clear, if I feed progressive, I don't see any problems, and CR is a greyed-out option. If I feed interlaced and CR is off, I don't see the interlacing artifact, but I do see a lower-quality picture overall. If I feed interlaced and turn CR on, the picture looks good on relatively static scenes, but I get the interlacing artifact on camera changes (or even changing channels actually).

I'd like to know whether this is a flaw in just my pj, or if it's just that the Panny 900 doesn't do a very good job interpreting film/video flags and deinterlacing with proper 3:2 pulldown, etc. My guess is that with CR on, the Panny is doing pulldown in many cases where it shouldn't.

Thanks,
Sean

Will take a close look at that over the next few days and let you know what I am seeing - certainly it was a pronounced effect when I was seeing it.

tvted

12-22-05, 02:12 PM

I'd like to know whether this is a flaw in just my pj, or if it's just that the Panny 900 doesn't do a very good job interpreting film/video flags and deinterlacing with proper 3:2 pulldown, etc. My guess is that with CR on, the Panny is doing pulldown in many cases where it shouldn't.

Thanks,
Sean

Deinterlacing on the 700 is simply a flag reader, I believe. Cadence changes will confuse it (going from video/cgi to fillm within the same source. The scaler also seems to add EE which I hate. I've long thought its scaler was overrated. I'd be surprised if this has changed with the 900.

I'd stick with external scaling which is likely to do a better job.

ted

pepar

12-22-05, 03:23 PM

. . . Cinema Reality . . .
Interestingly named, especially if it's the cause.

My Sony HS20 with Digital Reality Creation has never even hiccupped. Perhaps Panny's scaler/deinterlacer is not up to the task under certain circumstances. Just a thought. I'm not trolling . . .

jstein

12-22-05, 03:44 PM

Tnedator, I am taking the same path as you. I was able to reach an accomodation with the vendor on their restocking fee. Even though I had refused the repair estimate on my Sony 10HT, when I got it back, the ghosting issue it had developed wasn't present. I am going to get a new bulb and keep the 10HT for a while.

I would rather live with the 10HT's weaknesses for a while than have to deal with an artifact I had never ever seen on it, VB. It may well be the case that my AE900 had more VB than is typical, or that I am particularly sensitive to it.

Whenever I do buy a new PJ, I will not buy a model that has not been shipping for a good three to four months. Reviewers almost never spend dozens of hours watching PJ's they review. Those who post on this board often have. In addition, the total number of units reviewed is too small to generalize about VB and other artifacts.

While I did have the unit, I did notice that my HTPC did a slightly better job of deinterlacing than the projector did. So, I would concur that a good progresive scan DVD player may well do a bit better job of deinterlacing than the PJ. Note that all of the material I watched was movie-based, not video-based. As to whether there is much of a difference between feeding the PJ 480P and letting it scale to 720P, or scaling outboard and feeding 720P to the PJ, I have no opinion as I never fed the PJ 480i or 480P.

In all regards, other than VB, I very much liked the PJ. My only advice to those considering the AE900 is to buy it from a vendor with a good return/exchange policy.

jumpy27

12-22-05, 05:16 PM

After reading through the thread on this, I'm still not clear on what is considered acceptable convergence. When I look at white letters on black background (typical convergence test) I notice a slight blue and VERY slight red offset on only parts of the letters.

This is only visible from about 2' or less on a 110" screen. It's not noticeable from a normal seeting distance. The picture looks great other than that but I don't know if this would cause other color or performance issues that I'm not aware of. I'm using about 50% of the vertical lens shift and none of the horizontal. Upconverting 720p DVD, HDMI cable, ceiling mount, 14' throw, painted wall with Silverscreen.

Is this considered normal convergence performance or should I contact my dealer?

Also, is this able to be fixed in the service menu with the panel adjustment? Or is that for other issues with the PJ? Do you hold down the enter key for 3 seconds when on the Option menu to get in it?

Thanks

It sounds like your convergence is less than 1 pixel off for blue and even less for red. Because your picture looks great otherwise, then I would say that this is normal convergence performance. If you look very closely at any normal TV, you will see the same convergence issues, but on a much smaller level.

The panel adjustment is for tweaking VB. Only very expensive projectors allow for convergence adjustment through the menu.

simpsonb

12-22-05, 05:37 PM

It sounds like your convergence is less than 1 pixel off for blue and even less for red. Because your picture looks great otherwise, then I would say that this is normal convergence performance. If you look very closely at any normal TV, you will see the same convergence issues, but on a much smaller level.

The panel adjustment is for tweaking VB. Only very expensive projectors allow for convergence adjustment through the menu.

Would one pixel be one "square" off from the image? When at 110" blue is about 1/8" wide or less, Red is even less than that. It really isn't an issue at normat viewing distance. On say shirts with white collars I see it when close. It may be due to colors being oversaturated so I'll look at that too with my DVE disc.

Tnedator

12-22-05, 06:59 PM

In all regards, other than VB, I very much liked the PJ. My only advice to those considering the AE900 is to buy it from a vendor with a good return/exchange policy.

Ditto. I can stress enough. Don't try and eek out every last penny by going with the cheapest vendor, make sure that they have a good return policy. If you are like some of us and have bad VB luck/sensitivity, you don't want to be stuck with the projector or a huge restocking fee.

LazMan

12-22-05, 09:54 PM

I have a touch of vertical banding. I adjusted the flickering and this seemed to help a bit. How do you tweak VB with the panel adjust on the ae900u?

Thanks,

Laz

It sounds like your convergence is less than 1 pixel off for blue and even less for red. Because your picture looks great otherwise, then I would say that this is normal convergence performance. If you look very closely at any normal TV, you will see the same convergence issues, but on a much smaller level.

The panel adjustment is for tweaking VB. Only very expensive projectors allow for convergence adjustment through the menu.

rsmith4321

12-22-05, 10:07 PM

Ditto. I can stress enough. Don't try and eek out every last penny by going with the cheapest vendor, make sure that they have a good return policy. If you are like some of us and have bad VB luck/sensitivity, you don't want to be stuck with the projector or a huge restocking fee.

As I've said before check the top pricegrabber featured vendors. One of the top 4 has the cheapest price I've seen and will give you a 10 day exchange if you find anything wrong with the PJ with no restocking fee. Only a fee if you return for a refund.

pcaulfie

12-22-05, 10:26 PM

For those using this projector with a computer....Can anyone boot into their BIOS and actually see the BIOS menu show up using this projector? I've tried two computers now and when I hit "del" to get into the sytem BIOS, I get a blank screen as if no signal is being detected...never had this problem before with my older projector. I have no issues ooting into XP; all looks well. Strange.

jazz_24_7

12-23-05, 12:49 AM

So, after lurking for many weeks I bought a 900 (first projector) and in general I am most impressed. The only really noticeable defect in the picture is the color uniformity on a gray screen where the left side has a bluish area along the edge and the right side has a red tinge from the edge to about 25% into the screen in an uneven pattern kind of curling towards the top.

The red tinge (not really the blue) can also be seen on normal program material when the picture is one color and bright or white. Or for instance the gray bars my cable box puts around a 4:3 picture.

The discoloration is unaffected by the size of the image thrown or the lens offset.

What do the other projectors out there look like?

jstein

12-23-05, 02:00 AM

jstein

12-23-05, 02:21 AM

As to choosing a vendor, here is the advice of someone who has already put over $10K into projectors.

Factors:

1) Price - Clearly important to most, but not the only factor to be considered.

2) Reputation - many of the price search engines provide user feedback on the vendors. Although I use www.resellerratings.com mostly for computer parts vendors, I suspect that many PJ vendors also have feedback on the site.

3) Right of Exchange - Some vendors have a you buy it, you own it, go talk to the manufacturer if you have a problem policy. Some will exchange without question subject to a time limit, bulb hours used limit and the requirement to ship the unit back 2nd day. In between, many will exchange a 'defective' unit. This works well for clear defects such as physically broken parts and egregious image issues. This may not work as well when there is a value judgement to be made (e.g., vertical banding). Keep track of all accessories and packaging material (down to the plastic bag the remote came in).

4) Right of Return and Restocking Fees - Again, some vendors have a you buy it, you own it, go talk to the manufacturer if you have a problem policy. I came across one vendor who had a no questions return policy subject to restrictions similar to those listed above. I have seen restocking fees as high as 20% on new units and 25% on open-box units. Keep track of all accessories and packaging material (down to the plastic bag the remote came in).

Check out the AVS sponsors at the top of the page. Check out the AdBrite text ads at the bottom of the page. And make use of price search engines. Sometimes, I have noticed that the price on a vendor's AE900 page was higher than the in-cart price after I put the AE900 into the cart even though the page did not explilcitly tell you to add the item to the cart to get their best price.

Good luck, enjoy the movies, read the fine print and caveat emptor

eldithomaso

12-23-05, 02:52 AM

A hearty thanks to all in the forum.

I have been lurking for over a year and drooling at the thought of a home theater.
With the detailed discussions here and the excellent reviews/details/comments on the A-900 I jumped.

I could not be happier...now if I could only get a fantastic 120" screen for less than $500.00 and had another $50k to spend on the room all at once life would be grand.

Anyone here using the Panny with a Denon 1920 via HDMI? Any thoughts on resolution ouput from the Denon to the Panny?

I have only played for an hour on a blank white wall but look forward to hours of pleasure with this Projector.

No VB, no dead Pixels and the only question I am left with is - why does NR
"noise reduction default to on" and is it only good for non-DVD or non-HD sources?

:D

rwestley

12-23-05, 07:00 AM

Regarding price, many of the AVS sponsors will match or at least come very close to a a price from another authorized dealer. JStein makes some very good points. Price is important but the rep of the dealer is another factor to consider.

simpsonb

12-23-05, 08:58 AM

I have a touch of vertical banding. I adjusted the flickering and this seemed to help a bit. How do you tweak VB with the panel adjust on the ae900u?

Thanks,

Laz

My convergence is no more than one pixel off so it's not noticable at normal viewing distances so that's not an issue.

However, after doing some color calibration last night with DVE, I (for the first time in two weeks of having the PJ) noticed VBE. It is subtle, only one white backgrounds and I was able to tweak out most (90%) of it with the panel adjust, mainly by bringing the blue panel down to 11 form 15. Red and Green are at 15.

With that, there is still a noticable wide (1 1/2") vertical VB on the left hand side (only) of the screen that I can't get rid of. It appears even in some blue scenes where the rest of the screen is fine with VBE. I may call my dealer and see what they can do but I wanted to get opinions here too.

Again, it seemes to only have "developed" last night. It's not the screen or source material either. The color adjustments I made are not that far off from what they were before so I can't imagine it's that, but you never know. Is VBE something that can develope or either you have it or you don't? Will it go away in time? Hours on the PJ are about 20.

myerss

12-23-05, 10:27 AM

I've been looking at my 900 in the box for over a month while waiting to finish construction on my new theater room. Got the projector mounted, squared and centered on a 106" screen but still had to wait to get the video cables pulled through the attic. A couple of days later I got the job finished and powered up my new projector with a video signal for the first time, SD cable looked pretty bad. OK, I had a Infocus 4805 before and with SD satelite it was pretty bad, so I switched to an HD channel... it got worse! Looked like everything was out of focus, so I put in DVE and Avia and tried to make it better. Nothing helped, I was cursing everyone who had ever reviewed this projector as looking great.

Started to think something was wrong with this one, finally pulled my dvd player out of the rack and run it on a ladder with a 3 foot component cable to the projector. It looked amazing!

Turns out the $200 component cable had a bad connector and it was generating noise on the video signal. Replaced the cable and couldn't be happier with the picture on the panny!

bruce3404

12-23-05, 11:11 AM

htimst

12-23-05, 11:14 AM

Turns out the $200 component cable had a bad connector and it was generating noise on the video signal. Replaced the cable and couldn't be happier with the picture on the panny!

Glad that one had a happy ending. I love my 900!

boykster

12-23-05, 11:23 AM

Since there isn't much action in the DIY Screen section, I'm posting here to ask a few questions. First, my setup: I have a ceiling mount about 14' back in a totally light-controlled room. Right now I'm projecting onto a white wall which just has drywall primer on it. My drywallers did a nice job in making the wall as smooth as possible. My other walls and ceiling are brown. Bottom line is that I'm pretty satisfied just projecting onto a wall and wondering how much a screen will help. Is any other AE900 owner projecting onto a wall in a light-controlled environment? If so, which color paint are you using?

If you are happy with the wall surface (smooth, etc) you might consider simply masking off your screen area and painting it with Behr's silverscreen paint (see DIY forum for details). You will get a benefit from masking off the screen (painting rest of wall a darker color) but there are many satisfied users with painted screens.

I use an GrayWolf however (cut down and made into a fixed screen), as my front wall is a "false" wall and is covered with black fabric.

Rich

pcaulfie

12-23-05, 11:41 AM

pcaulfie, I also noticed that the PJ was not synching during bootup. I put that on the list of things to look into later, which I will not be doing as I have returned the PJ. As I recall this was definetely the case when I intially hooked via the HD15 VGA input. I might not have been paying attention during boots after I switched to the HDMI input with a DVI to HDMI cable.

Thx. Can anyone else duplicate this problem? It's more of an inconvenience since I will have to lug my computer monitor into the HT anytime I want to get into the BIOS. I am seeing the boot logo show up but after that no signal.

pepar

12-23-05, 11:47 AM

Thx. Can anyone else duplicate this problem? It's more of an inconvenience since I will have to lug my computer monitor into the HT anytime I want to get into the BIOS. I am seeing the boot logo show up but after that no signal.
Have an s-video or <shudder> composite video output on your computer's video card? Try that.

braum

12-23-05, 12:10 PM

I bought a new AE900U projector and Oppo DVD player. I hooked up all the connections (used DVI-HDMI cable). For some reason, projector is not able to get the video from the DVD player. The projector is working fine as I tested it with another sony NS70H DVD player (HDMI output) using HDMI-HDMI cable. The picture looks great, but I want to compare it against oppo DVD player, since I read raving reviews about it in this forum. I called Proejctor People (where I bought the projector) for support. They said that it might be with the frequency issue on the Oppo DVD player and since the projector is working fine, they don't want to help further. Anyone has experienced this before? Thanks in advance for the input.

- Braum.

MikeSRC

12-23-05, 12:14 PM

Hit the DVI button on the Oppo (after it's powered up) to change the resolution. It may be on a non-supported resolution. Other than that, there's nothing else you should have to do if the projector's on the HDMI input.

Also, if you have the current 1111b firmware on the Oppo, you'll have to roll it back to the previous version to get it to display properly (without an image shift).

braum

12-23-05, 12:20 PM

tony123

12-23-05, 12:46 PM

Since there isn't much action in the DIY Screen section, I'm posting here to ask a few questions. First, my setup: I have a ceiling mount about 14' back in a totally light-controlled room. Right now I'm projecting onto a white wall which just has drywall primer on it. My drywallers did a nice job in making the wall as smooth as possible. My other walls and ceiling are brown. Bottom line is that I'm pretty satisfied just projecting onto a wall and wondering how much a screen will help. Is any other AE900 owner projecting onto a wall in a light-controlled environment? If so, which color paint are you using?

Bruce, I'm using a painted wall with BEHR Ultra Pure White, flat. I framed it with 1x4's and painted them black. The rest of my wall is a dark maroon. I'm very much pleased. I feel no need to buy a screen. Good luck.

MikeSRC

12-23-05, 01:10 PM

Are you aware of any know problem with frequency sync?

No, there shouldn't be any. It's possible that you either have a bad Oppo unit or a bad DVI-to-HDMI cable. Do you have a PC monitor or anything else you could connect it to via DVI?

braum

12-23-05, 01:16 PM

Mike,

Thanks. My friend has a Samsung DLP TV with DVI out and I'm going to try it and see how it works.

- Braum

mtnsean

12-23-05, 01:43 PM

Mike,

Thanks for your immediate response. I hit the 'DVI' button couple of times, but didn't get any response. How do I check the firmware version? Do I need to hook it up with component input or svideo? Are you aware of any know problem with frequency sync? Thanks again.

- Braum.

Braum, make sure the disc is stopped before trying to change resolutions. The DVI button doesn't work when a disc is playing.

-Sean

klefkow

12-23-05, 03:04 PM

Do any of you know the 4 digit code for DirecTV HD-10 receiver? I need this to probram into the Pansonic remote provided with the 900U projector.

MikeSRC

12-23-05, 03:32 PM

If the code's not in the manual, there isn't one available. Usually, Hughes codes will work, but they don't have that either. Use the Panny remote's learning feature for your H10. Remotes like this one are just stop-gap solutions and no substitute for a real universal remote.

klefkow

12-23-05, 03:39 PM

Its just a little disappointing that they would not have a code for one of the major satellite providers.

braum

12-23-05, 03:55 PM

I hooked up the Oppo DVD to DLP TV (using DVI-DVI cable) and it works fine. This confirms that the DVI signal output is fine. The only change I need to do is to buy a new DVI-HDMI cable and see if that makes any difference. I called Oppo support and since they have lean staff today, I was not able to get hold of right person.

- Braum

MikeSRC

12-23-05, 04:20 PM

A new cable should do it. Oppo is closed today and Monday, so you probably won't be able to get ahold of anyone until then. They would probably send you a new cable to try if you can wait until then.

pepar

12-23-05, 04:51 PM

Its just a little disappointing that they would not have a code for one of the major satellite providers.
FWIW, none of the universal remotes that came with any of my various A/V components have codes for the SA8300HD STB/DVR. Neither the downstairs Denon receiver's nor the upstairs Integra Research's. Makes no sense . . .

braum

12-23-05, 05:15 PM

Mike,

This is a different question on the AE900 settings. I've not made any adjustments to the color, gamma settings etc. and I'm using out of the box settings like 'Cinema 1', ' Cinema 2'. What settings woud you recommend? Even if I choose say 'Cinema 1', what values should I change to get the best picture clarity (less artifacts). Do you have the values? Thanks.

Braum.

MikeSRC

12-23-05, 05:20 PM

Cinema 1 is by far the most accurate color temp and greyscale right out of the box. The other settings take quite a bit of adjustment to get them anywhere near correct color temp or greyscale. Take a look at the first post in the "Tweaks" thread linked to in my signature line.

tvted

12-23-05, 05:29 PM

pepar

12-23-05, 05:39 PM

Is it possible BIOS display is CGA rez?
The 900 doesn't do less than VGA I believe.

ted
I think the BIOS boot up display *is* 640x480 (VGA).

pcaulfie

12-23-05, 06:06 PM

I think the BIOS boot up display *is* 640x480 (VGA).

I'm not sure how to confirm that but I've tried this with a 2 year old Dell and my HTPC and the same thing happens. Maybe I'll give tech support a call in a few days.

pepar

12-23-05, 06:25 PM

I'm not sure how to confirm that but I've tried this with a 2 year old Dell and my HTPC and the same thing happens. Maybe I'll give tech support a call in a few days.
FWIW, I'm using one video card output to drive a small flatscreen monitor at the equipment rack and the other for the projector. Most system maintenance is done from the flatscreen and gaming happns on the PJ. With that configuration, the projector only gets fired up when it's needed and vice versa.

nathanieljla

12-23-05, 09:24 PM

rwestley

12-24-05, 07:53 AM

Nathanielja, try changing the batteries in the remote. It has been reported that many of the projectors came with weak batteries in the remote. I am guessing that you have a problem with the signal being sent to the projector. After you put in the new batteries unplug the projector for about a minute before you try it. There could also be a chip lockup problem. Be sure to be patient after you turn the projector on. As you know it takes a few minutes for the lamp to be warmed up. Do not turn the projector on and off, it ruins the bulb. I hope you have success.

elmufador

12-24-05, 08:10 AM

klefkow

12-24-05, 09:53 AM

With composite inputs on the old Xbox what would be the correct settings on the X-box to get the best results. I have set yes for 720P only and there is evenly spaced vertical stripes all the way across the screen. Thanks

scotty144

12-24-05, 10:21 AM

CRAP! Is my 900 defective. My wife made been mentioning to me over the past week or so that on occasion our 900 would turn on but get no picture. Then after a few minutes turn off. I marked it up as user error, hoping he forgot to turn the DVD player on, then while messing around turned the power off (I should give he more credit). Anyway, Tonight I saw this for myself. My amp had been one, and I swapped DVD's out so I know all my components were on. Then I attempted to power on the Projector. Sure enough, no picture. I then tried hitting a few buttons like input etc. Nothing with no light coming out of it. I stood around for a few minutes and right as I asked how long it takes to turn off, off it went. :( Turning it back on I suddenly realized how loud the fan was running the first time. It was almost like when you power it off. Any ideas? Maybe I'm an idiot and held the power too long, but I don't know. I feel pretty confident I did everything right.

Is it possible that you have set the 'Off Timer' in the main menu?

jazz_24_7

12-24-05, 11:13 AM

I have a brand new AE900 and noticed right away that the right vertical edge of the picture has has a red blush and a complimentary but less noticeable blue one on the left side.

It’s easy to see on a gray screen such as the over scan pattern on DVE (12-17) and extends inward to about the 10 mark. It's less obvious on program material but still shows itself. I've not seen this mentioned in any of the reviews so I'm thinking it's just my projector. It;s not affected by lens shift or zoom.

Can some one please tell me if they have noticed this and is it just an LCD thing or if swapping it out may help. Otherwise very nice picture.

Thanks in advance.

pdjc3

12-24-05, 12:26 PM

Hi,
I'm a newbie and I finally took the plunge and purchased an AE900 after reading alot of the reviews and posts on this forum. The PJ arrived yesterday and I want to make sure that I check it out thoroghly before the 4 lamp hour limit on my return policy expires. What specifically should I look for? I don't belive I see any VB. I've ordered the calibration disk and it should be here next week but is there anything I can check without the disk. I've searched this thread and am trying to get a list of things I should look for so that I can play away and not worry about the 4 hours.
Thanks,

Pablo

rwestley

12-24-05, 12:39 PM

Capek

12-24-05, 01:01 PM

CRAP! Is my 900 defective. My wife made been mentioning to me over the past week or so that on occasion our 900 would turn on but get no picture. Then after a few minutes turn off. I marked it up as user error, hoping he forgot to turn the DVD player on, then while messing around turned the power off (I should give he more credit). Anyway, Tonight I saw this for myself. My amp had been one, and I swapped DVD's out so I know all my components were on. Then I attempted to power on the Projector. Sure enough, no picture. I then tried hitting a few buttons like input etc. Nothing with no light coming out of it. I stood around for a few minutes and right as I asked how long it takes to turn off, off it went. :( Turning it back on I suddenly realized how loud the fan was running the first time. It was almost like when you power it off. Any ideas? Maybe I'm an idiot and held the power too long, but I don't know. I feel pretty confident I did everything right.
The same thing happened with my first unit. The lamp would come on, but no picture would be displayed. I know I didn't do anything to cause this to happen. I worked fine for about 6 turnons, then just stopped turning on all together. The manual says it's a lamp circuit malfunction. The nice thing about panasonic is they have a no hassle 30 exchange period. As long as you bought it less then 1 month ago, you can get a new one from your dealer.

jazz_24_7

12-24-05, 02:27 PM

Thanks rwestley,

I'll take item 4 to mean there should be no visible coloration on a gray screen.

Too bad, everything else looks great. I had to put the PJ back in its box to thwart my temptation to use it past the allotted hours.

pepar

12-24-05, 05:18 PM

pepar,

Here is some info re the upcoming EPSON panels.
Press mention (http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050525/105051/?ST=english)
An AVS thread earlier in the year (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=541003&goto=nextnewest)

The SONY panel
Press Release (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200502/05-007E/)

That's about it - not a lot of "real" info at this time.
Expectations are PJ's at CEDIA in Sept. 06 - perhaps some prototypes at CES in Jan.

ted
Thanks, tvted. I *finally* got a chance to wade through these links. The future certainly looks bright. Have any idea when the next round of pj's will hit - is there a show/convention approaching that might shed some more light?

(Sincere apologies for all the lame metaphors.)

jumpy27

12-25-05, 12:15 AM

Things to check on new projector.

1. Check for VB on light scenes. (Try Master and Commander (The Fog Scene)

2. Look for dead pixels.

3. Check convergence. (I did it on a menu item or check subtitles)

4. Check to see that the that you don't have discoloration on any part of the picture.

I am guessing that you are referring to the Fog Scene starting at about 8 minutes into the movie. Does any particular shot in the Fog Scene show up VB better, or does the whole scene show VB equally? Thanks.

rwestley

12-25-05, 06:59 AM

If you have VB you will notice it in the during several parts of this scene. You might also notice it on a HD football game transmission. If you don't notice it. I would not worry about it. The AE900 in most cases has very little VB and it is a non issue for most.

JAZZ 24/7 The light level should be close throughout the screen. A a grey background you should not see other colors. I would put on a quick test pattern from AVIA, DVE, to be sure.

n0s

12-25-05, 08:17 AM

A couple of days ago I posted about bad artefacting (broad red horizontal lines/ transparent gray lines going up and down) using the Xbox 360 DVD-player with the Panny 900. There's a thread going about it in the Xbox forum (someone suggested it might be Macrovision), but IMO it's the Panny that's the problem. So just in case anyone here is still interested:

I found out some more about the Xbox 360s DVD-player:
In the on-screen menu of the Panasonic PT-AE900 it actually says what input it gets. So when my Xbox 360 Display is set to 720p it puts out the following signals (I live in Belgium, Europe - we have PAL):

Games: 720p
DVD: 576p

With the switch on the Xbox360's HD cable set to SD, you get:

DVD: 575i

And as stated above, the artefacts disappear. So they must be due to the Panny's internal scaler/de-interlacer not being able to handle 576p. I guess there's not so much you can do about that. Changing the Panny's settings (Cinema Reality, NR,...) doesn't help one bit.
Changing the Xbox360s Display settings to 480p or 1080i doesn't help either: it keeps putting out a 576p DVD-signal. Maybe I can sue M$ for that and get really rich and buy a nice HD-DVD player. I guess that won't happen though, cause I reckon it's the actual DVD disc that determines the signal. PAL = 576 lines any which way you turn it. I'll try and find me an NTSC (480 lines) DVD to prove my point here.
Maybe this is why we don't see any artefacts on DVDr as well.
One thing I still don't understand though is that the artefacts aren't on every (PAL) DVD I play: most of them have it, some of them don't.

I guess I'll be using my crappy Sony-DVD player in the end: there's not that much difference with 576i.
If there's one thing I've learned from all this, it's that progressive vs interlaced really does make a BIG difference, especially when you blow your image up to a 100 inch diagonal.

I use an Oppo DVD player via HDMI to my Panny AE900 and the image is fine in both 576p and 720p and 1080i, and i too live in Europe. Just thought id let you know, might be a prob with your machine, or maybe its a prob with the xbox that has problms outputing 576p.

n0s

John Ballentine

12-25-05, 06:26 PM

Duden

12-25-05, 07:11 PM

This is normal on the 900 (as it was on the 500 and the 700). I watch a lot of B&W films - so this is my biggest complaint about these units.
I haven't noticed such problems (yet..), but wouldn't a simple solution be to turn down colours on one of the unused settings of the PJ, and use this exclusively for B&W material? Or would this offset contrast and other parameters of the input signal? Years ago I would turn down colours on my TV set when watching those horrible colourized Laurel & Hardy movies. It probably didn't restore the original B&W image, but just getting rid of the computer colours was more important to me.

lax01

12-26-05, 01:56 AM

I was wondering if someone can answer a few basic questions about the AE900.

1) What is vertical banding? Any pictures showing it? I think I saw it ONCE, but it might have been the source.

2) The tweaks thread, what is the purpose of people posting the tweaks for their specific room? I don't get it. Everyone's room is different, so why even try to replicate the same settings in different rooms? Or am I missing something vital in that thread?
2a) How are these people tweaking their projector? and what leads them to feel those are the best results? Are they simply using DVE or are they using something more professional?

3) People talk about Filters. What is the purpose of a filter? Is it used constantly or just for calibrating?

4) Anybody have any advice with using the AE900 with the GrayWolf screen? So far, I think it looks spectular. I just need to tweak the black level a little bit more for more contrast, but overall the picture quality is outstanding (much better than using a white bedsheet)

5) Finally, what is everyone using to calibrate? I only have AVIA, but I ordered DVE and it will be here next week so I plan on using that to tweak further. Does anyone suggest one over another?

Anyways, thanks in advance, I truly apologize if these questions have already been covered.

rwestley

12-26-05, 06:10 AM

Lax01, I would search the specific threads. There are answers to most of your questions there. There is also a specific thread on virtical banding. Your questions on calibrating and and filters are also available. Briefly, Filters are often used to increase contrast and black levels. They are left on after calibration. Many of the postings with settings are guides to try for those who don't own calibration equipment. I would read the first page of the tweak thread and CKL's review of the AE900. AVIA and DVE are very good setup disks and should be used for basic setup before trying any of the filter tweaks. These disks should also be used if you do not plan to use filters. Some of us are trying to get the best possible picture out of the projector that is why we try filters and like to tweak. You are correct that each room and situation is different but calibration using equipment is often done through the lens and not from the screen so the postings can be used as a starting point. If you want to try them write down your original settings before you start. Regarding the Grey Wolf there is a thread on the screens section of this fourm. The screen has gotten great reviews for the price.

braum

12-26-05, 10:29 AM

A new cable should do it. Oppo is closed today and Monday, so you probably won't be able to get ahold of anyone until then. They would probably send you a new cable to try if you can wait until then.

Mike,

It looks like the problem is with the 'DVI-HDMI' cable that came with the unit. I went to a local store and bought an adapter (DVI to HDMI) and picture comes out fine now. It works on 480P, 780P and 1080i.

Also, I have another problem with the DVD player. When I stop the DVD player and eject the DVD and if I put in the new DVD, it hangs infinitely with 'Loading' message and the only way is to power off & on. I'm able to simulate this almost every time. However, the workaround I found is after the DVD is ejected, I had to close and when the player is initialized with 'no disc', then I had to eject again to put in the DVD. This is really annoying, as I have never seen this even in my very old DVD player.

Thanks,

Braum

braum

12-26-05, 10:34 AM

Has anyone compared the picture quality of Oppo 917H DVD player against Sony NS70H. It has HDMI output and capable of upconverting to 1080i resolution. I'm in a dilemma whether to keep my oppo DVD player or not? Any input would be appreciated.

- Braum

MikeSRC

12-26-05, 11:03 AM

Also, I have another problem with the DVD player. When I stop the DVD player and eject the DVD and if I put in the new DVD, it hangs infinitely with 'Loading' message and the only way is to power off & on.

If it's doing this on every DVD you try, then there's probably something wrong with the player. It shouldn't be hanging up on anything.

lax01

12-26-05, 12:07 PM

pcaulfie

12-26-05, 12:47 PM

FWIW, I'm using one video card output to drive a small flatscreen monitor at the equipment rack and the other for the projector. Most system maintenance is done from the flatscreen and gaming happns on the PJ. With that configuration, the projector only gets fired up when it's needed and vice versa.

Yep, I think I'll go that route except I need to find something that will look nice on top of my component rack since my rack is out in the open and in view. Just need to justify the $$ to the wife.

calibos

12-26-05, 01:45 PM

I was wondering if someone can answer a few basic questions about the AE900.

1) What is vertical banding? Any pictures showing it? I think I saw it ONCE, but it might have been the source..................

Heres a pic from avforums. Its not my screen and in fact the subject of the thread was DIY screens but the poster inadvertently captured one of the best pics of VB I have ever seen. He confirmed that the VB in the image was present in the original dark room pic of the screen even before he cut and pasted the screen into the lit room pic. ie the VB was not an artifact of the photoshopping work he did on the photo's.

Anyway here it is. I've left it at its large size of 1200x800 @ 680kb lest resizing and jpeg compression artifacts affect the visibilty of the VB in the pic

http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/1561/bigscreen18pb.jpg

eliocon

12-26-05, 02:37 PM

So how much time should one allow before turning the projector on again? I know it's bad to turn it on and off repeatedy. Any ideas?

Elio

MikeSRC

12-26-05, 02:45 PM

So how much time should one allow before turning the projector on again?

The lamp should be completely cooled. I wouldn't go less than 1/2 hour and I usually wait at least an hour

rsmith4321

12-26-05, 03:46 PM

Well I've got a refund for my 900. I was thinking about trying a 3rd unit, but I figured since I got two already that had really bad VB, that means that I have a very good chance of getting another. I really didn't want to bother with it anymore. Does anyone have any alternative suggestions? I can't use some of the new low cost DLP's because they have too short of a throw distance. Has anyone used a Z4, and have you noticed how it compares to the 900, especially with VB. THanks.

lax01

12-26-05, 04:11 PM

Heres a pic from avforums. Its not my screen and in fact the subject of the thread was DIY screens but the poster inadvertently captured one of the best pics of VB I have ever seen. He confirmed that the VB in the image was present in the original dark room pic of the screen even before he cut and pasted the screen into the lit room pic. ie the VB was not an artifact of the photoshopping work he did on the photo's.

Anyway here it is. I've left it at its large size of 1200x800 @ 680kb lest resizing and jpeg compression artifacts affect the visibilty of the VB in the pic

http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/1561/bigscreen18pb.jpg

thanks...I have not noticed that at all on my 900....but I do see how that could be rather annoying...*crosses fingers in hopes of never seeing it*

pepar

12-26-05, 04:17 PM

Yep, I think I'll go that route except I need to find something that will look nice on top of my component rack since my rack is out in the open and in view. Just need to justify the $$ to the wife.
Your appearance concerns were mine as well. I went with this Neovo (http://www.neovo-usa.com/products/X-17AV_X-17A.htm) and love it. It is more than a computer monitor in that it has inputs that are more associated with a multimedia monitor, but with generally better performance. I use the s-video input and a cheap s-video switcher to connect the s-vid outputs of my DVD, pre/pro and one other piece of gear. This allows setup, maintenance, upgrades, etc, without firing up my projector.

presenter

12-26-05, 04:39 PM

Thanks, tvted. I *finally* got a chance to wade through these links. The future certainly looks bright. Have any idea when the next round of pj's will hit - is there a show/convention approaching that might shed some more light?

(Sincere apologies for all the lame metaphors.)

The Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas is Jan 4-8th. There will no doubt be a number of new projectors shown, but if it is their first showing, they probably won't ship for 30-120 days after the show.

InFocus is likely to show 3-4 new HT projectors, as they will be discontinuing the following: 4805, 5000, 5700, 7205. The darkchip3 7210 and the 777 will remain current models, although the newest version of the 777 should have 3 darkchip 3 processors. Also, Kodak, who ordered a hundred or more 777's (probably for movie theaters - for trailers, and advertising?), have versions that are rated 3000 lumens, so we may see a newer extremely bright version of the 777 from InFocus at the show.

Word at Cedia, was that most, if not all of the 4 new HT Infocus projectors will ship in the 1st quarter, and at least one should be geared to compete with the 900u, the Z4, Epson 550, etc.

Also Optoma will show their HD72 at CES and supposedly will ship almost immediately following the show. That looks to be a low cost Darkchip2 projector to replace the discontinued H77. Price - probably right around $2K. So, since Optoma has always done a really nice job with their DLP projectors (I'm a huge fan of the H78DC3), we may have a real contender at the $2K price point, that is DLP, (beside the BenQ PE7700, which is getting old, and has suffered a lot of bad publicity on this forum for early lamp failures.

There are sure to be others.... Hey, we're always chasing the next, better, projector.

Most 900u people seem to be extremely pleased with their units, - now maybe they aren't as critical as many on the forums, and just don't notice VB (unless extreme), etc. The large online dealer I get info from says they have sold about 400 900u's and only had 5-6 defective units reported, a couple of which had startup problems, the others VB.

That's a pretty respectable track record - 1-2%. But again, most are completely blown away with the 900u's picture, and just won't notice a little VB, or will accept that as normal.

-art

For those gunshy of the Panny, because of the VB... I have recently posted reviews of the Epson 550 and Z4 in addition to the 900u review. Curiously, I was unable to identify any VB on any of the review units I worked with - 1 Z4, 2 900u, 2 Epson 550s (and a look at a third 550).

rwestley

12-26-05, 07:55 PM

As Presenter points out projectors are getting better and better. I have previously owned a Z2, AE700 and now I have A AE900. The 900 is the best yet. I don't see any VB and the picture is very good especially with the filter tweaks. The sharpness is very good and there is no SDE. For those who are concerned about sharpness I would look at the sharpness section on AVIA or DVE and listen to what is suggested. Is is possible that other projectors overenhance sharpeness at the expense of image quality? I am sure that things will get even better in the future but for the price the AE900 is a great projector.

Kerry Irons

12-26-05, 08:32 PM

I've searched high and low and can't find an answer to this one. When I fast forward (from play) my cheap JVC VCR, the Panasonic screen goes to noise supression (goes blue). This occurs in either slow fast forward or fast fast forward (from play). As a result, I cannot see the image while fast forwarding and so it makes it hard to skip around the tape or scan through commercials. This is the case whether feeding the signal through coax to my cable box or from the "red, white, yellow" outputs from the VCR. These signals feed to a Denon AVR-3806 receiver and then to the Panasonic via HDMI. I have turned the noise reduction OFF in the Panasonic - it helps let noisy VCR signals through, but the unit still goes to blue screen when fast forwarding (from play) the VCR. Any thoughts on how to view the FF? TIA.

jumpy27

12-26-05, 11:33 PM

nikos77

12-27-05, 12:24 AM

[QUOTE=calibos]Heres a pic from avforums. Its not my screen and in fact the subject of the thread was DIY screens but the poster inadvertently captured one of the best pics of VB I have ever seen. He confirmed that the VB in the image was present in the original dark room pic of the screen even before he cut and pasted the screen into the lit room pic. ie the VB was not an artifact of the photoshopping work he did on the photo's.

Anyway here it is. I've left it at its large size of 1200x800 @ 680kb lest resizing and jpeg compression artifacts affect the visibilty of the VB in the pic

Had to remove URL because of newbieness.

This is my first post here...thanks to your posts I bought the AE900 myself and played with it over the weekend. Maybe to point out the obvious, but VB are the Vertical lines (like bars) you can see on the above pic right???

With that said, my unit has very BAD VB in low resolution feeds. My xbox, normal TV, even normal DVD looks horrible. On the other hand when I upconvert, the picture is fantastic. I have my xbox upconverting and the games look great, even lower resolution avi and mpeg's get upconverted and look much better than I've ever seen them. I'm holding off on the Oppo just until after CES. This projector is meant for high quality feeds and if you don't have it or can't upconvert the VB WILL be bad.

HD Football over component from a cable box was amazing. When using a lower resolution feed VB was evident. The size of the screen doesn't affect VB at all. If its there it will be there nomatter how big or small the screen is. I was watching the games on 156" diagonal and looked incredible in a basement.

Basically where there was VB each of the Vertical bars you can see in the pic where about 2 inches each Purple and black pattern....
When I upconvert on bootup of some screens you can still see it but now the line is a just a hair and once colors start projecting you can't notice it at all...even in very bright sky shots, sand shots whatever.... I've really been trying to spot them and can't in 1080....

Hope this helps...

Nick

eclipse98

12-27-05, 02:10 AM

rotelryu

12-27-05, 04:15 AM

A couple of days ago I posted about bad artefacting (broad red horizontal lines/ transparent gray lines going up and down) using the Xbox 360 DVD-player with the Panny 900. There's a thread going about it in the Xbox forum (someone suggested it might be Macrovision), but IMO it's the Panny that's the problem. So just in case anyone here is still interested:

I found out some more about the Xbox 360s DVD-player:
In the on-screen menu of the Panasonic PT-AE900 it actually says what input it gets. So when my Xbox 360 Display is set to 720p it puts out the following signals (I live in Belgium, Europe - we have PAL):

Games: 720p
DVD: 576p

With the switch on the Xbox360's HD cable set to SD, you get:

DVD: 575i

And as stated above, the artefacts disappear. So they must be due to the Panny's internal scaler/de-interlacer not being able to handle 576p. I guess there's not so much you can do about that. Changing the Panny's settings (Cinema Reality, NR,...) doesn't help one bit.
Changing the Xbox360s Display settings to 480p or 1080i doesn't help either: it keeps putting out a 576p DVD-signal. Maybe I can sue M$ for that and get really rich and buy a nice HD-DVD player. I guess that won't happen though, cause I reckon it's the actual DVD disc that determines the signal. PAL = 576 lines any which way you turn it. I'll try and find me an NTSC (480 lines) DVD to prove my point here.
Maybe this is why we don't see any artefacts on DVDr as well.
One thing I still don't understand though is that the artefacts aren't on every (PAL) DVD I play: most of them have it, some of them don't.

I guess I'll be using my crappy Sony-DVD player in the end: there's not that much difference with 576i.
If there's one thing I've learned from all this, it's that progressive vs interlaced really does make a BIG difference, especially when you blow your image up to a 100 inch diagonal.

n0sI use an Oppo DVD player via HDMI to my Panny AE900 and the image is fine in both 576p and 720p and 1080i, and i too live in Europe. Just thought id let you know, might be a prob with your machine, or maybe its a prob with the xbox that has problms outputing 576p.

n0s

Yep, same here. I use an Arcam dv 88 plus on progressive pal (576p) through component without any artefacts. I don't have any reason to believe that the Panny isn't functioning within specification. I think the 360 is at fault here (or is at least introducing some trickery that the 900 obviously can't cope with). Note that ntsc discs are also handled horribly on the 360 (disregarding display or setting): the image freezes up momentarily after a few frames and then continues.
Clearly the 360 is a games machine where it's dvd functions should not be taken seriously.

Kerry Irons

12-27-05, 10:57 AM

jumpy27 said "Try going from the VCR directly to the projector using the "red, white, yellow" output of the VCR. Bypass the Denon for at least the video (yellow). "

Yeah, I thought about that, but I'm feeding the projector via HDMI from the receiver, and would have to change the input settings on the projector every time I wanted to watch the VCR; doable, but not the optimum solution. That's why I tried feeding the reciever via the yellow cable, hoping that would give a better output from the VCR. Unless I misunderstood how the projector operates - does it automatically choose which input to use based on which one is active?

gashog301

12-27-05, 01:19 PM

Im a newb to fp, i just got the 900. Is there a break in time for the bulb? I have about 24 hours on mine and it seems like the color is not as good and when there is a wide shot (far away) in a football game its kind of blurry. I used the settings from the tweak900 thread and used avia when it was new (4hours). I just want to know if this is normal or am i just going blind. Im have D's HD tivo and a 35foot hdmi. Maybe its D and hdlite was very lite lately.

nataraj

12-27-05, 01:23 PM

Word at Cedia, was that most, if not all of the 4 new HT Infocus projectors will ship in the 1st quarter, and at least one should be geared to compete with the 900u, the Z4, Epson 550, etc.

Would you know whether any of them (esp. the one to compete with AE900) would have lens shift.

BTW, is there a technical issue with having flexible lens shift with DLP projectors compared to LCD ? I've not seen any DLP projector with Horizontal lens shift, for example.

rsmith4321

12-27-05, 02:45 PM

The Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas is Jan 4-8th. There will no doubt be a number of new projectors shown, but if it is their first showing, they probably won't ship for 30-120 days after the show.

InFocus is likely to show 3-4 new HT projectors, as they will be discontinuing the following: 4805, 5000, 5700, 7205. The darkchip3 7210 and the 777 will remain current models, although the newest version of the 777 should have 3 darkchip 3 processors. Also, Kodak, who ordered a hundred or more 777's (probably for movie theaters - for trailers, and advertising?), have versions that are rated 3000 lumens, so we may see a newer extremely bright version of the 777 from InFocus at the show.

Word at Cedia, was that most, if not all of the 4 new HT Infocus projectors will ship in the 1st quarter, and at least one should be geared to compete with the 900u, the Z4, Epson 550, etc.

Also Optoma will show their HD72 at CES and supposedly will ship almost immediately following the show. That looks to be a low cost Darkchip2 projector to replace the discontinued H77. Price - probably right around $2K. So, since Optoma has always done a really nice job with their DLP projectors (I'm a huge fan of the H78DC3), we may have a real contender at the $2K price point, that is DLP, (beside the BenQ PE7700, which is getting old, and has suffered a lot of bad publicity on this forum for early lamp failures.

There are sure to be others.... Hey, we're always chasing the next, better, projector.

Most 900u people seem to be extremely pleased with their units, - now maybe they aren't as critical as many on the forums, and just don't notice VB (unless extreme), etc. The large online dealer I get info from says they have sold about 400 900u's and only had 5-6 defective units reported, a couple of which had startup problems, the others VB.

That's a pretty respectable track record - 1-2%. But again, most are completely blown away with the 900u's picture, and just won't notice a little VB, or will accept that as normal.

-art

For those gunshy of the Panny, because of the VB... I have recently posted reviews of the Epson 550 and Z4 in addition to the 900u review. Curiously, I was unable to identify any VB on any of the review units I worked with - 1 Z4, 2 900u, 2 Epson 550s (and a look at a third 550).

I think that's has to be a lie about the Panny replacement, unless most people just have no idea about VB. As a long time DLP user, both my 900's had really noticable VB, so much that I gave up on the unit. I'm excited about the H72 you mentioned.

HiHoStevo

12-27-05, 02:48 PM

I think that's has to be a lie about the Panny replacement,

I did not see any information about a "replacement" for the 900... what replacement are you talking about? :(

{Godlightsoul}

12-27-05, 03:46 PM

I think that's has to be a lie about the Panny replacement, unless most people just have no idea about VB. As a long time DLP user, both my 900's had really noticable VB, so much that I gave up on the unit. I'm excited about the H72 you mentioned.
I am a DLP convert, and I don't see VB. In fact, I don't know what vertical banding looks like, and I don't want to know because I don't want to look for it.

Ignorance is bliss. Picture looks GREAT!

eclipse98

12-27-05, 04:13 PM

orangezero

12-27-05, 05:31 PM

hope i get these right. i think ideally, u want the projector closer to the screen rather than further back, even if the image size is the same. has something to do with the angle of the incident light i believe. i'm sure it depends somewhat on the screen material u are using and the gain and viewing angle.... etc. lots of factors. someone can give a better explanation i'm sure.

as far as dvi/hdmi cables go, i believe i read the other day that the limit is somewhere around 30 to 33ft for certification. they make longer runs but they aren't certified, whatever that means. if its only 12ft or so i wouldn't worry about it too much, just dont' get the cheapest possible cable (as always). i think if there is a signal degradation there will be sparkles, but i've never used hdmi or even dvi yet. seems the best way to check is to just try it out...

waiting for my ae900 to ship out to try though.

Capek

12-27-05, 06:52 PM

I have a dedicated HT space in the basement (12x24 feet) with well controlled light conditions (very little ambient light). Since we have finished basement I like AE900 for giving me an option to put in on the shelf on the back wall (about 23 feet or so throw distance). I am planning to have 106 inch screen.

Sales rep I just spoke with tried to sell me another projector claiming that AE900 1100 lumen output would be greatly diminished if I put it 23 feet from the screen and that I really should not put projector further than 15 feet . My understanding is that lumen output will be spread across the screen and I will lose lumens once I start increasing screen size. But since it is going to be 106 from 15 or 23 feet, am I really going to lose that much of a brightness or is it going to be negligible ?

Also, if I mount PJ from the ceiling, how long can HDMI cable be before it starts losing picture quality ? Since I am planning my equipment rack at the back of the room and projector in the middle, there going to be about 12-15 feet of HDMI cable.

Thanks for your help !!

Davie.

When experimenting with my 900 to decide how far back to ceiling mount it, I first had it about 20' from the screen, then tried it about 15'. I projected an image sized about 125" diagonal, in a completely light controlled room with dark walls and ceiling, on a matte white cheap screen with a gain of 1.3. On low lamp mode, with meager calibration, I noticed very little difference between the two locations. Closer up, it looked a little more pleasing, I guess because its a little brighter. I watched several dvds with the projector 20' back, and IMO I'd say the sales person was greatly exagerating saying the light output would be great diminished at that distance.

Currently, I'm using a very inexpensive 25' hdmi cable from monoprice, and all I get is a perfect picture, without any of the degradations normally associated with too long cables.

ymmv though.

Wakefield103

12-27-05, 08:23 PM

Sales rep I just spoke with tried to sell me another projector claiming that AE900 1100 lumen output would be greatly diminished if I put it 23 feet from the screen and that I really should not put projector further than 15 feet.

Just out of curiosity, which projector was he trying to sell you? Other than the Sanyo Z4, there is no other projector I have found that had greater lumens, a similar long throw, and a price anywhere near the neighborhood of these projectors.

eclipse98

12-27-05, 11:33 PM

Just out of curiosity, which projector was he trying to sell you? Other than the Sanyo Z4, there is no other projector I have found that had greater lumens, a similar long throw, and a price anywhere near the neighborhood of these projectors.

That's the funny part -- it's some local Panasonic authorized dealer who does not really have anything in stock or in showroom -- they tried to sell me Sharp XG-C58X and XG-C68X which I later found is really a LCD multimedia (not HT) PJ and cost twice as much as AE900.

I've heard a lot of good things about Z4 but really did not have a chance to see any good LCD PJ in showroom -- the only one I found in local store called Ultimate Electronics had Sony VPL-HS51 LCD PJ, but we really did not like it much although reviews are decent -- even low cost SharpVision XV-Z2000 DLP looked superior compared to Sony. However they had Sony showroom really messed up -- too much ambient light plus they put it on the drop ceiling which was rather unstable and that made a picture rather shaky. But then again, I am not buying a Sony -- I want Panasonic but can't seem to find a place where I can see it in person.

If anybody seen SharpVision XV-Z2000 can you post your opinion how it compares to AE900 ? If 900 is as good as Sharp I have no doubts about it !!!

Thanks, Davie.

xxThe Deanxx

12-27-05, 11:52 PM

Occasionally I lose my signal on the 900 and get the blue screen. In order for me to get the signal back I have to switch to the second component input and then I can get it back. Shutting the system and components down does & then restarting does not help.
Any Ideas?

WillyWonka

12-28-05, 09:48 AM

Hi to all,
i don't know if you already know this trick (now i've not time to read all the thread!) :

to reset the lamp timer on the PT-AE900 :

menu OPTION, highlight LAMP RUNTIME, press ENTER for 3 seconds, it becomes TIMER RESET...

bye to all !

pepar

12-28-05, 10:05 AM

Sankar

12-28-05, 10:09 AM

WillyWonka

12-28-05, 10:28 AM

Have you had to replace your first bulb already? :confused:
no, it's just a trick !
i was looking for EXT2 Option menu....

jason002

12-28-05, 10:58 AM

steviec

12-28-05, 12:06 PM

I have no VB problem but it may be because I am using a Denon 5910 over hdmi which is true 10 bit and uses the HQV chip.Its like having a Projector with HQV technology!
Check out this info if you havent seen it already.http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calculator.cfm?print=1&mfg_id=&part_id=3017&zm_sv=1.17204301075269&fix_sv=0&ar_sv=16&pd_sv=15.8370894495413

steviec

12-28-05, 12:10 PM

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae900.htm

Capek

12-28-05, 01:13 PM

I just upgraded from my HS10 to the AE900. I am very pleased with the contrast improvement. That was my main reason for changing projectors. It was impossible to play video games with dark scenes on the HS10. The AE900 seems to handle them well using the "Natural" display setting.

I do have some VB on yellow, green, and pale fields. I was unable to get rid of it completely with the flicker and panel tweaks. I am curious, for those that see no VB just how good your vision is. I am somewhere in the 20/10 to 20/15 range. If you are seeing no VB, please state your vision. I am trying to decide if I need to take a gamble and try and get an AE900 with "no" VB.
Thanks,
Jason
I could see a little on my first 900. But I really had to hunt for it. On my second, I can't see any. I haven't gone out of my way to look for it, but I haven't seen any in the ~80 hours I have on the unit so far, nor on the few Avia test patterns I checked out when I calibrated it.

I don't have 20/20, but it's close.

tvted

12-28-05, 02:27 PM

Why would you do that? Doesn't it auto reset when replacing the lamp?

It might be of some use - let's hope it doesn't happen to you though. :eek:

If you see your bulb dim suddenly and there is no revival, before you replace the bulb try RESET - it has been known to rejuvenate the lamp for a while on some boxes.

Don't ask why because I dunno.

ted

Wakefield103

12-28-05, 06:42 PM

That's the funny part -- it's some local Panasonic authorized dealer who does not really have anything in stock or in showroom -- they tried to sell me Sharp XG-C58X and XG-C68X which I later found is really a LCD multimedia (not HT) PJ and cost twice as much as AE900.

If anybody seen SharpVision XV-Z2000 can you post your opinion how it compares to AE900 ? If 900 is as good as Sharp I have no doubts about it !!!

Thanks, Davie.

Thanks Davie. I was worried for a second there that there was something else out there that I hadn't been considering. That dealer does not sound like he was very knowledgable about home projectors, or was not a reputable dealer. I've actually looked into Sharp XG-C58X and XG-C68X projectors for my work and use in conference rooms. They are good projectors. He's right that they have more lumens (3300 and 3600 respectively). They even support HD. However, they are XGA projectors - meaning their native resolution are 4:3. Some people like this but I would not recommend a 4:3 projector for home use in this day and age. They also have short throw lenses.

I have not seen the XV-Z2000 projector. It is a DLP which does have performance benefits over most LCD projectors. But it is only a little brighter than the 900, about same contrast (depending on lamp mode), and a short throw lens. It is also last years model. It is about 32% more in cost than the 900 or Z4. ProjectorCentral says some optional digital decoder is needed for HDTV.

bubbawilly

12-28-05, 07:00 PM

That's the funny part -- it's some local Panasonic authorized dealer who does not really have anything in stock or in showroom -- they tried to sell me Sharp XG-C58X and XG-C68X which I later found is really a LCD multimedia (not HT) PJ and cost twice as much as AE900.

I've heard a lot of good things about Z4 but really did not have a chance to see any good LCD PJ in showroom -- the only one I found in local store called Ultimate Electronics had Sony VPL-HS51 LCD PJ, but we really did not like it much although reviews are decent -- even low cost SharpVision XV-Z2000 DLP looked superior compared to Sony. However they had Sony showroom really messed up -- too much ambient light plus they put it on the drop ceiling which was rather unstable and that made a picture rather shaky. But then again, I am not buying a Sony -- I want Panasonic but can't seem to find a place where I can see it in person.

If anybody seen SharpVision XV-Z2000 can you post your opinion how it compares to AE900 ? If 900 is as good as Sharp I have no doubts about it !!!

Thanks, Davie.

The HD2+ Sharp ZV-Z2000 is superior to the 900 in actual contrast, black level and brightness. Forget about what the specs say. All of those improvements combine to offer a more three-dimensional presentation, and a little more pop and sparkle. Any good HD2+ DLP should have these advantages over the Panasonic. I briefly had the BenQ PE7700, another HD2+ DLP, and despite what PJ Central said, it wins out in these areas as well. It's not night and day, but the difference is pretty obvious.

I doubt that you can get the Sharp for less than about a $1200 difference, however. Soundtrack, I mean Ultimate, doesn't deal much, and the Sharp is not worth a $1K+ premium over the 900. Based on its image the PE7700 would be a steal at its current street prices, but it is a serious QC problem child.

I'd pay maybe a $500 premium for the Sharp over the Panasonic, but not a dime more.

Sankar

12-28-05, 07:41 PM

I'd pay maybe a $500 premium for the Sharp over the Panasonic, but not a dime more.

Unless of course like me you are susceptible to rainbow headaches ... in which case I'd say, "...maybe a $500 discount for the Sharp over the Panasonic, but not a dime less.."
;)

pepar

12-28-05, 08:07 PM

<nomex>I've never understood why anyone would buy a single chip DLP/color wheel projector. One can demo them all day and not see a rainbow, but until one takes every relative, friend, acquaintance and future acquaintance along to the demo and THEY see no rainbow, it's a crapshoot. My guests may have a headache the next day from the martinis or margaritas, but not while watching a movie or sporting event.</nomex>

jason002

12-28-05, 08:17 PM

Repost from previous page (Just checking your eyeballs):

I just upgraded from my HS10 to the AE900. I am very pleased with the contrast improvement. That was my main reason for changing projectors. It was impossible to play video games with dark scenes on the HS10. The AE900 seems to handle them well using the "Natural" display setting.

I do have some VB on yellow, green, and pale fields. I was unable to get rid of it completely with the flicker and panel tweaks. I am curious, for those that see no VB just how good your vision is. I am somewhere in the 20/10 to 20/15 range. If you are seeing no VB, please state your vision. I am trying to decide if I need to take a gamble and try and get an AE900 with "no" VB.
Thanks,
Jason

rwestley

12-28-05, 09:41 PM

I don't think the issue with Vb has anything to do with vision. I have 20/15 with glasses and I have not seen VB on my AE900. I have looked for it and I know what it is. I had it on my AE 700. I am using HDMI with a SA 8300 box and I have a Monoprice switcher and an Oppo DVD Player. I have looked for VB on sources that I had it on the Ae700 such as the few fog scene of Masters and Commander and football games and I have not been able to notice it. I even looked again for it after reading several posts and I guess I am lucky this time. VB is not an issue for me.

pepar

12-28-05, 11:35 PM

Ha! Ha! Perhaps we should insist those who see no VB get MRI's as well.

:)

jandawil

12-29-05, 02:15 PM

[QUOTE=Alan Gouger]I agree with this. Sales are strong both north and south of anything mid range. We are selling far more low priced DLP projectors then in the past & partnering on the flavor of the day ( Ruby) and 3 chip DLP is still selling strong.
Mid & upper priced 1 chip DLP sales are dead for us. This will all change of course after CES. Looking forward to the advancements of LCD. LCD sales are very low in volume for us by choice. For every 3 we sell 2 have to be exchanged for CQ issues. Up to this point I prefer to not bother selling them as they cost us money in the long run but I would like to see this change.[//QUOTE]

This was posted by Alan in the >$3500 thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=621600

As someone who is about to pull the trigger on this (waiting until after CES) should I/we be concerned?? If it were some shmo saying this I wouldn't pay to much attention, but considering the source????

bubbawilly

12-29-05, 02:52 PM

You saw in that thread where I asked Alan if his statement applied to the 900. I'm sure you also saw that he did not reply.

I should have 900 number 4 tomorrow. Thankfully, I chose a good dealer to work with.

That said, based on this thread it looks like the 900 isn't suffering from more than the average number of QC issues for any new product. It's selling like hotcakes, so it may seem that there have been quite a few duds, but in relation to units sold, QC issues seem barely a blip on the radar. I've simply been very unlucky. I wouldn't have opted to try a 4th unit if it were not for my experience with a previous Panasonic projector combined with relatively few reports of serious problems. I've not had VB on any of the previous 3 units.

Check out the BenQ 7700 and Toshiba MT700 threads. I don't believe there is a single owner with more than 200 or so hours on the unit that hasn't at least experienced one lamp failure. Many are on their 3rd lamps, and many have had to send their units in for various issues. Now that's a projector with serious issues. The Panasonic is a gem comparitively.

Murray1080

12-29-05, 03:04 PM

For every 3 we sell 2 have to be exchanged for CQ issues. Up to this point I prefer to not bother selling them as they cost us money in the long run but I would like to see this change.[/[/B]/QUOTE]

what does CQ issues mean?

pepar

12-29-05, 03:04 PM

You saw in that thread where I asked Alan if his statement applied to the 900. I'm sure you also saw that he did not reply.
Perhaps it that he did not reply YET . . .

EDIT: Now that I look at it further, I'm thinking that he won't answer as it would be a slight against a specific manufacturer. But then on the other hand, you're on your fourth 900 and can draw your own conclusion. As have I.

pepar

12-29-05, 03:05 PM

jandawil

12-29-05, 03:12 PM

Perhaps it that he did not reply YET . . .

I'm hoping the key word is "yet"....but it's been two days. His silence will speak volumes otherwise. This has me a little concerned about purchasing the 900 or any other LCD now. CRAP!!!!! Just when I thought I had my mind made up, it's back to the drawing board. I almost ordered it the other day as well but decided to wait until after CES. I hope the 900 is an exception or the new InFocus H76 will be out be mid Feb at a cost in the $2200 range. My HT is not done yet, but I was hoping to have it completed by mid-late Feb and don't want to sit around waiting for the new 2006 PJs if I don't have too.

pepar

12-29-05, 03:16 PM

I'm hoping the key word is "yet".... His silence will speak volumes otherwise. This has me a little concerned about purchasing the 900 or any other LCD now. CRAP!!!!! Just when I thought I had my mind made up, it's back to the drawing board. I almost ordered it the other day as well but decided to wait until after CES. I hope the 900 is an exception or the new InFocus H76 will be out be mid Feb at a cost in the $2200 range. My HT is not done yet, but I was hoping to have it completed by mid-late Feb and don't want to sit around waiting for the new 2006 PJs if I don't have too.
See my edited comment. I'd be shocked if he let himself get drawn into addressing a particular model/manufacturer. I think it was a blanket with NO exceptions. I agree that it makes no sense to buy something right before a major show. On the other side, you'll either be able to buy the same unit for less or a better model for the same. Either way, it's worth waiting.

jandawil

12-29-05, 03:24 PM

You saw in that thread where I asked Alan if his statement applied to the 900. I'm sure you also saw that he did not reply.

I should have 900 number 4 tomorrow. Thankfully, I chose a good dealer to work with.

Check out the BenQ 7700 and Toshiba MT700 threads. I don't believe there is a single owner with more than 200 or so hours on the unit that hasn't at least experienced one lamp failure. Many are on their 3rd lamps, and many have had to send their units in for various issues. Now that's a projector with serious issues. The Panasonic is a gem comparitively.

Sorry about your luck with this PJ. I read every post here and there are many happy 900 customers and I'm sure the forums are skewed with more unhappy customers and people looking for answers to their problems than with happy ones. His comment really caught me off guard. I have read about the 7700 and MT700 and that is just ridiculous. I suppose the same thing can happen with the 2006 new releases as well.

I'm definitely ordering from an AVS member, most likely PJ People. Their return policy sounds fair. The other one is PJ Solutions which is only 15 miles from my work here in the OC, but than I would have to pay tax and that add another $150 to the price, but it may be worth it to be able to drive down and swap it out rather than wait for UPS. I can't take this anymore. Maybe I should just buy a 25" Zenith tube and sit 3' from it.

donyoop

12-29-05, 06:50 PM

Does anybody know any dealers in Denver who sell (and hopefully have on display) AE900 ? None of the big retailers seem to have it :mad: and I would prefer to buy locally so I can get good service since I am a newbie with front projectors.

Thanks !!!

I recommend Brad & John at www.integrityhometheater.com. Brad is based in Parker and can help you out. They have been AVS resellers and big participants in this forum.

Don

thaxx

12-29-05, 07:07 PM

Can someone point me to the numbers for a ceiling mounted 900 offset.
I did the search but got a gizillion hits.

bubbawilly

12-29-05, 09:45 PM

thaxx

12-29-05, 10:09 PM

So if the center of the lens is level with the top of the screen (ceiling mounted) I won't need to use any of the vertical lens shift? That is my goal, not to have to use any of the lens shift. I want the top of my picture to be about 5" from the ceiling. So with a 110" wide screen, how low will the lens center have to be from the ceiling?
Thanks

bubbawilly

12-29-05, 10:48 PM

You use no lens shift only when the center of the lens intersects the center of the screen, both vertically and horizontally. Any other mounting position will require some lens shift. It's goofy as hell, I know, but that's the way it works.

With the center of the lens at the top of your screen you would be at 50% of the available 63% lens shift. From the center of the screen, the lens shift adjustment is 50% of the overall screen height, plus 13%. IOW, for your 62" high screen, the maximum lens shift is 62" x .63, or 39", measured from the home position of screen center. Therefore, you could mount the projector as high as 8" above or below the screen. Either would be maximum lens shift.

If you stay within vertical border of your screen, you'll be okay. Lower than the top of the screen is better still. Just keep in mind that you cannot use both the vertical and horizontal lens shift to their extremes. Using more of one limits the available range of the other.

snowmoon

12-29-05, 11:25 PM

I'm currently looking at upgrading my trusty benq pb6200 ( like the X1 in specs, but brighter ). My room can be mostly light controled, but general viewing would be done with lighting that is designed to minimize screen impact. My inputs will be progressive DVD and HD sources as well as the ocasional computer feed.

My main concern is brightness. Based on very rough estimates it throws 500-650 lumens. Will the 900 be able to match or beat that? Are there any other important items as a DLP user ( 2x, 4 segment wheel ) that I should be aware of?

This will be my second projector, I would like to think of myself as a tweaker, but besides basic color and eyeing brightness and contrast I don't want to invest alot of time with setup and tweaking, it never end up being worth it for me.

tubaprde

12-30-05, 10:59 AM

I have a dedicated HT space in the basement (12x24 feet) with well controlled light conditions (very little ambient light). Since we have finished basement I like AE900 for giving me an option to put in on the shelf on the back wall (about 23 feet or so throw distance). I am planning to have 106 inch screen.

Sales rep I just spoke with tried to sell me another projector claiming that AE900 1100 lumen output would be greatly diminished if I put it 23 feet from the screen and that I really should not put projector further than 15 feet . My understanding is that lumen output will be spread across the screen and I will lose lumens once I start increasing screen size. But since it is going to be 106 from 15 or 23 feet, am I really going to lose that much of a brightness or is it going to be negligible ?

Also, if I mount PJ from the ceiling, how long can HDMI cable be before it starts losing picture quality ? Since I am planning my equipment rack at the back of the room and projector in the middle, there going to be about 12-15 feet of HDMI cable.

Thanks for your help !!

Davie.

I feel the dilemma on this one too. Another variable to add to this mix is that the closer to the screen you mount the pj, the more vertical lens shift you gotta use. So i have my pj at about 12feet from a 106" greywolf, i gotta use almost all my lens shift to match the image to the screen (screen and pj are both 8 inches from the ceiling).

There has got to be an optomal place to setup the pj in this situation when your dealing with the challenges of LENS SHIFT VS. FEET FROM SCREEN.

Anyone got ideas on this? Another thing to remember (and i didnt know at the time i mounted my pj) is that with a greywolf screen the picture from a ceiling mounted pj looks a lot less bright than a in-line mounted pj with lens within 2.5 feet of the audiences eyes.

Just some thoughts. Oh, yeah, one more thing, I'm considering mounting my pj 19 feet back on the wall, just so that the lenz hits the middle of my greywolf and is within 2.5 feet of the audiences eyes---arg a lot of work ahead of me. :rolleyes:

tubaprde

12-30-05, 11:15 AM

I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly, but I'll give it a try.

The offset on the 900 is not fixed, per se. The lens shift takes care of various installation options, allowing a 63% (of the total screen height) adjustment from the center of the screen up or down. Just try and ceiling mount the PJ so that the center of the lens is as close to the top of the viewing surface as possible. You can mount it as high as 13% higher than the top of the image, but this would introduce quite a bit of bowing at the bottom of the image due to the lens shift extreme.

My unit is mounted a few inches below the top of my screen (using about 40% of the available 63% lens shift), and there is slight bowing at the bottom of the projected image. After a few minutes of viewing I no longer notice it, but it I can't guarantee that you wouldn't be distracted by the bowing in 2:35 movies if you were using the maximum lens shift.

---Wow, thanks. So thats why I see the bowing on the bottom of my screen! Bubbwilly-- if you had a option to mount your pj at the back of your room (say 20 feet back) but in the middle of the screen, would you do that (assuming your room was 20ft long)? Right now my pj is 12 feet from the 106 greywolf. Also, what type of screen are you using? I'm interested in getting a good screen for the ae900 thats ceiling mounted--otherwise i'll re-mount the pj on a shelf in the back of the room so i can take full advantage of the Greywolf. Thanks!

tvted

12-30-05, 01:47 PM

---Wow, thanks. So thats why I see the bowing on the bottom of my screen! Bubbwilly-- if you had a option to mount your pj at the back of your room (say 20 feet back) but in the middle of the screen, would you do that (assuming your room was 20ft long)? Right now my pj is 12 feet from the 106 greywolf. Also, what type of screen are you using? I'm interested in getting a good screen for the ae900 thats ceiling mounted--otherwise i'll re-mount the pj on a shelf in the back of the room so i can take full advantage of the Greywolf. Thanks!

Mounting further back (a longer throw) will always reduce geometric errors because the angle of incidence is smaller and you are using a smaller area of the glass which contributes to those errors.

One issue with Zoom lenses is, unless they are Constant Aperture, once you utilize the zoom you change is light transmission abilities. Lenses at this price level are not Constant Aperture.

For a constant screen area as you move the PJ further back there will be lumens loss because the aperture decreases with a change in the lenses' focal length. So dependent on where you are in the zoom range you can lose up to about 60% (a little over 1 F-stop) lumens with the 900.

ted

bubbawilly

12-30-05, 02:08 PM

---Wow, thanks. So thats why I see the bowing on the bottom of my screen! Bubbwilly-- if you had a option to mount your pj at the back of your room (say 20 feet back) but in the middle of the screen, would you do that (assuming your room was 20ft long)? Right now my pj is 12 feet from the 106 greywolf. Also, what type of screen are you using? I'm interested in getting a good screen for the ae900 thats ceiling mounted--otherwise i'll re-mount the pj on a shelf in the back of the room so i can take full advantage of the Greywolf. Thanks!

What Ted said. I'd opt for the slight geometric distortion that moderate lens shift + close mount introduces, vs. the lumen loss at a 20' mounting distance, but that can be a personal preference. I'd consider any shift within the vertical border of the screen to be moderate, and shift from outside of the screen's border to be extreme.

I usa a Da-Lite HCCV screen. Its lightly coated surface texture is detectable in brighter images as it is. I'm not sure that I could live with the granularity of any beaded, high-gain screen, but again, that's just my personal preference.

tvted

12-30-05, 02:39 PM

I'd opt for the slight geometric distortion that moderate lens shift + close mount introduces, vs. the lumen loss at a 20' mounting distance, but that can be a personal preference.

Me too. :)
Geometry errors are minor at best and certainly not noticeable when using masking.

Heck I sit close enough that looking at the edges of the frame hurts. ;)

ted

tubaprde

12-30-05, 04:21 PM

Thanks, guys. This helps a lot. Bubbawilly, is your screen angular reflective?

Jptaz

12-30-05, 07:09 PM

Wow this is confusing...

I thought the Panny 900 was supposed be one of the better projectors for short throw distance projection because it has less screen door.

I have a rather close installlation My current projector is positioned as follows:

Lense is 10.75 Feet from the wall (No Screen yet)
Center of the lense is 13" from the ceiling

This configuration produces a 92" 16:9 Image (80" x 45") with the top of the image 22" from the ceiling which is pretty close to ideal for comfortable seated viewing. I could probably drop the projector another 4" giving me 17" to the center of the lense, but that would require the lense to be 10' from screen and requires 1.86x Zoom according to ProjectorCentral.com. Using the .63 x 45" calulation gives 28.35" which means the lense can be 5.85" fabove the screen meaning to get the 22" I need lense to be 16" to 17" from the ceiling...which means the projector is now about 6 feet 4" from the floor, I am 6' 2" so this is ok, not great and the projector is hanging right in front of my sofa so if someone gets up to quick...well you get the picture.

If my math is correct and so are the figures I may have to look at several alternatives according to ProjectorCentral.com the following are candidates:

Sanyo PLV-Z4 ($ 2,995 MSRP)
Epson PowerLite Cinema 550 ($ 2,499 MSRP)
Sony VPL-HS51 ($ 3,499 MSRP)
Hitachi UltraVision HDPJ52 ($3999 MSRP)

Any thoughts...Am I doing the math wrong is this projector really that inflexible?

Thanks,
John

thaxx

12-30-05, 07:23 PM

steviec

12-30-05, 08:15 PM

Just for comparison purposes , I have my AE900 sitting on a 4' tall shelf 16' from the grey wolf 92" screen. I use no lens shift as it is about dead on. I sit 11' feet from the screen,picture is phenomenal.
Projector central calculator recommends 15.8' as the ideal throw distance for this size screen.
See here:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calculator.cfm?print=1&mfg_id=&part_id=3017&zm_sv=1.17204301075269&fix_sv=0&ar_sv=16&pd_sv=15.8370894495413

With this setup the picture also looks great with no visible loss of light and i only have to zoom in about 1/4 " on the lens adjustment to get it to fill the screen.

bubbawilly

12-30-05, 10:26 PM

Thanks, guys. This helps a lot. Bubbawilly, is your screen angular reflective?

Boy, I don't know. Da-Lite doesn't offer much hard data on the HCCV fabric, other than the gain value.

I do like the combo. I feel that the HCCV improves perceived contrast and black level, without compromising brightness or whites at all. I compared my HCCV with a .8 gain darker gray screen, and the HCCV's whites remained 'white,' while white images on the darker screen were definitely gray. Blacks were awesome, but the whites could have used some serious bleach, and the image lost virtually all of its pop.

bubbawilly

12-30-05, 10:37 PM

soupbone

12-31-05, 12:13 AM

Currently, I'm using a very inexpensive 25' hdmi cable from monoprice, and all I get is a perfect picture, without any of the degradations normally associated with too long cables.

What is your source? STB (DVD / HD) or PC (NVIDIA / ATI) ?

Capek

12-31-05, 01:03 AM

What is your source? STB (DVD / HD) or PC (NVIDIA / ATI) ?
I use it with my Oppo 971 and Motorola HD STB from TWC, both with the DVI-to-Hdmi connector from monoprice. I haven't gotten around to hooking up my PC to my PJ, but hopefully I will sometime after newyears.

soupbone

12-31-05, 02:12 AM

Thanks for the information. I just recieved my AE900 and will be first using a ASUS mobo with GeForce 6150. DVI out -> DVI to HDMI converter -> Inexpensive 25-ft HDMI -> AE900. Hope it works out because I do not want to buy a $200 repeater.

Anybody using such conversion and long HDMI cable runs with success? This temporary 25 foot svideo cable isnt going to cut it!

Thanks

tubaprde

12-31-05, 05:18 AM

rwestley

12-31-05, 07:12 AM

A Monoprice 25' cheap cable should work fine. They also sell much cheaper repeaters.

Jptaz

12-31-05, 08:24 AM

The other candidates that you mention are reported to have much greater lens shift range, but I'd sure want to confirm that going beyond the Panasonic's range wouldn't introduce even higher geometric distortion.

Your math is right. The Panasonic is very flexible when compared with competitive DLP units that incorporate ridiculous, 32% fixed lens offsets, and highly restrictive zoom ranges. It is a great short, medium and long throw projector, and SDE simply isn't a factor with the 900. That said, the Sanyo or Epson may be better for your particular installation.

I thought that the goal would to use the least amount of lens shift possible.

Given that I would assume a projector that can lens shift 150% in either direction and using less than half the range would be more desirable than using the full range a projector that can only shift 63% since you willl be closer to the lens natural position.

John

Jeff Cerwin

12-31-05, 11:56 AM

N9IWP

12-31-05, 11:57 AM

tvted

12-31-05, 12:03 PM

I got my new 900 my old unit is a panny 500.
Although I haven't calibrated it yet. I'm using DVI to HDMI from my HD Samsung 360 Directv receiver.
No mater what adjustments I make I can't seem to get rid of the hot white. Loss of detail. I have tried switching cables ect. I'm not a newbie with pj's this is my 5th. Any help would be appreciated.
When I turn the contrast brightness corlor down it just makes the pic. too dark.

Do you have DVE or AVIA? Are you familiar with setting Blacker than Black and Whiter than white? Is it possible your source is clipping whites? Peruse the following link as it explains this quite clearly. My apologies if you are familiar with this.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=494606

ted

pepar

12-31-05, 12:12 PM

I read on another forum that a lot of people are getting 900 units with VB. Has anybody out there gotten one of these, and how did returning it and getting another unit workout. Also where did you purchase it and how long did it take. Thankx, I was going to also get the pana 900 before I read so many people are unhappy.
Search this thread for "VB" and you will find a lot of posts. Some have downplayed the incidence of VB in the AE900, but as someone who is, or had been, seriously considering the 900 as an upgrade to the Sony HS20, I am a bit alarmed. One member is getting his FOURTH 900 having returned the previous three for VB. As such, I have paused and gone into "wait-and-see" mode on the 900. And now, with CES being so close and - perhaps - yet another generation of LCD panels about to be debuted, waiting seems to be prudent.

Just my $.02.

Sankar

12-31-05, 01:11 PM

I was an early purchaser (and so missed the rebate). I returned the first unit due to a concern with the convergence. The second one was slightly better in this arena (but a noisier fan :(). Neither had VB problems (I have normal eyesight and looked for them)

jazz_24_7

12-31-05, 01:48 PM

I am on my second 900 and this one isn’t quite right either. The first one had problems with color uniformity with a red tinge to the right edge of the screen and blue on the left. Otherwise it was great. My dealer swapped out the unit as a DOA without issue.

The second unit does not show this color issue but the picture is not as good. It seems softer and less detailed. I have a constant urge to fiddle the focus but it doesn’t help. I also noticed ghosting around white on black credit text which was not present in the first PJ.

I took a look at the convergence pattern from DVE. The convergence was no worse than the first PJ but there were faint parallel lines on either side of all the grid lines. Running the sharpness down to the minimum (-6) got rid of them. This still leaves a little smudging around characters although I need to be close to see this smudging

This ghosting was definitely not present on the fist PJ at sharpness “0” with the same DVD player cables etc. and the overall picture did not suffer from softness or a lack of focus. This is running HDMI so at the suggestion of Panasonic tech support I switched sources to a different DVD player through component and saw the same thing.

It’s almost as if the sharpness adjustment was being used to offset some other problem. No VB that I could see on either PJ. The second one also has some rattling from the fan at low speed.

Had I not seen the PQ on the first projector then I’m sure I would have no reason to doubt this second unit but now it’s making me nuts. I’m going to try and get this one swapped out as well. At this point wish I kept the first one and maybe had it serviced.

Isn’t there something about “better the devil you know” ?

bubbawilly

12-31-05, 02:46 PM

I thought that the goal would to use the least amount of lens shift possible.

Given that I would assume a projector that can lens shift 150% in either direction and using less than half the range would be more desirable than using the full range a projector that can only shift 63% since you willl be closer to the lens natural position.

John

It is best if you can limit the use of lens shift to the point where no geometric distortion is introduced. Some designs may allow fairly significant lens shift without distortion. I don't see any geometric distortion on the Panasonic until beyond 30% lens shift, and then it gradually increases.

Regarding the available shift ranges on different projectors, it all has to do with how the projector's optical path was designed. Going back to Ted's description of the "angle of incidence," this angle is not only a factor after light exits the lens, it is a factor as the light enters the lens as well. If a particular projector simply uses a mechanical lens assembly that offers a greater shift range than the 900, but doesn't have a different light path design, then using more than about 30% shift will start to introduce distortion there as well. In that case, going beyond the 900's 63% range would yield greater distortion still. Panasonic could have easily included a lens with greater physical shift range, but given their internal light path design, they obviously felt that 63% was the max they should allow for acceptable levels of distortion.

I don't know if that is the case with the other projectors. I'd like to believe that they have different internal designs, but I don't know for sure. That's why I recommended checking to be sure.

bubbawilly

12-31-05, 02:48 PM

jazz_24_7

12-31-05, 02:54 PM

I tried both settings. I'm pretty sure I wound up setting it off because it would cut off the picture otherwise.

Jptaz

12-31-05, 03:35 PM

bubbawilly,

Thank you for the info.

I actually went and saw the Epson 550 at a local retailer and at 50%+ lens shift I did not really see any distortion...it maybe there, but from 8 feet viewing distance I did not notice it and truthfully I hope I don't ever. The max lens shift on the unit is actually 75%, which is only a little better than the Panny, but means I can flush mount the projector as high on my soffit as possible and do a 70% lens shift. Realistically I have lived with a projected image that is not exactly perfect for a while so some slight optical distortion is probably tolerable.

Thanks,
John

calibos

12-31-05, 04:34 PM

lax01

12-31-05, 04:53 PM

Had VB on my AE900 but was able to tweak it out completely with the flicker and panel adjust menu within the service menu (Press and hold enter on the OSD item in the options menu)
Are all you guys trying this before you sent your units back??

how exactly did you change the flicker and panel adjust? What did you you use to make sure that the VB was gone?

dave1969

12-31-05, 05:38 PM

Why do computer animated movies so much better? I have a 120" screen i made out of polywall.I have the Panny AE900 and an Oppo DVD 720p player. When i play movies like Nemos, Toy Story or Shark Tales etc. The images are so much more sharper and crisp looking. Regular movies like Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings etc dont have that sharp crisp look to them. Im almost wondering if somethings wrong with the Panny. Its only a few weeks old. Any suggestions?

lax01

12-31-05, 05:48 PM

Because those digitally created animated movies were never shot with film...therefore they never had to go through the telecine process which converts the film to digital....Indy, LotR (I think it wasn't shot digitally) were shot on film, actual film and they had to be converted to the digital format....Films shot in all digital will look similar to the animated movies but none of them are going to look as good as something that was created 100% in a computer...where all light sources and every single element in the film can be tweaked....

troutseeker

12-31-05, 09:09 PM

Anybody used the Digital Video Essentials and/or Avia with their AE900U... prefer one to the other?

lax01

12-31-05, 09:29 PM

Anybody used the Digital Video Essentials and/or Avia with their AE900U... prefer one to the other?

I've been using both....I think Avia is better for colors and DVE is better for Contrast and Brightness....of course, Mike or CKL might be able to reply with better information regarding a more professional calibration with a light sensor...

soio

01-01-06, 08:50 AM

anyone with dvd pana s97? can you post your config in hdmi? tnx

Jeff Cerwin

01-01-06, 11:25 AM

Capek

01-01-06, 12:23 PM

I used the maximum vertical lense shift for the first few weeks before I installed my ceiling mount, and noticed ZERO fuzziness or any other image distortion. Projectors aren't really the kind of thing you can make blanket statements about.

jazz_24_7

01-01-06, 12:52 PM

I read on another forum, A person purchased the Pana 900, and was unhappy with the unclear, fuzzy picture. After he read the manuel, it said when using too much lens shift causes the picture to get fuzzy. After he mounted the PJ with no lens shift, and no tilt. Another words, dead center to the screen. Then the picture became much clearer. It sounds like you have to set it up like a DLP unit with no lens shift. How can Panasonic even claim it has any lens shift. When you use it the picture gets fuzzy. And if you use almost maximum lens shift the picture looks BAD. I am staying CLEAR of Panasonic!

Lens shift is not an issue here. In my setup the PJ is 16ft away in a bookcase projecting a 92" image using maybe 10% of vertical shift and no horiz. shift.

The lens shift combined with the zoom works very well and allows lots of choices for placement of the PJ. That, and the lack of visible pixel structure are why I chose this PJ over the others. At this point I am still not considering other PJs.

jazz_24_7

01-01-06, 01:28 PM

As far as my complaining about the soft PQ on this particular 900, searching this thread (again) I found post #323 and related posts where two 900s were compared side by side and one did not perform as well as the other with regard to sharpness of the picture.

I also found link to the AE700 service manual and found it interesting that the convergence and focus of the red and blue panels are set relative to green mechanically. It seems to me that only one panel will be perfectly focused by the lens and the other two will be close. While the procedure used for production is probably different than what is described in the manual I've got to believe that how carefully this alignment is performed can be the difference between a really good picture and a so-so one. Interestingly there is also a mechanical adjustment for color uniformity side to side and top to bottom for all three panels.

And then of course the PJ is shipped.

Has anyone had their projector “touched up” by a service center to improve convergence/focus. Did it help?

cohagen

01-01-06, 01:48 PM

Hello,

I've been 100% pleased with my 900's picture thus far. Probably have almost 300 hrs on it. At first I really did not notice any vertical banding, but after reading so many posts about it, I finally started to notice it unfortunately. That said, as long as the thought is not in my mind, I don't notice it.

Regarding convergance, I can clearly tell that my red is off exactly one pixel to the right. Meaning on the right edge of anything white you clearly see one pixel worth of red. Is this an acceptable convergance issue? How would this effect overall picture quality when watching films? Could I adjust the panels myself?

Any advice appreciated. I am 100% satisfied with picture quality, however this is my first projector, and so I don't know if I am suffering from something serious or not serious. What is acceptable convergance?

thaxx

01-01-06, 03:02 PM

Everyone acceptable level is different.
But if it doesn't effect the picture quality from your viewing distance, than I would say that's acceptable. I know that ALL 3 panel devises has some MC. I don't think theses PJ manufactures intended it's customers to judge these pj's with there noses up against the screen.

mtnsean

01-01-06, 03:15 PM

The second unit does not show this color issue but the picture is not as good. It seems softer and less detailed. I have a constant urge to fiddle the focus but it doesn’t help. I also noticed ghosting around white on black credit text which was not present in the first PJ.

I took a look at the convergence pattern from DVE. The convergence was no worse than the first PJ but there were faint parallel lines on either side of all the grid lines. Running the sharpness down to the minimum (-6) got rid of them. This still leaves a little smudging around characters although I need to be close to see this smudging

This ghosting was definitely not present on the fist PJ at sharpness “0” with the same DVD player cables etc. and the overall picture did not suffer from softness or a lack of focus.

[...]

It’s almost as if the sharpness adjustment was being used to offset some other problem.

I think there's something to this. When I set the sharpness as "correctly" as possible using test patterns (high enough to resolve as much detail as possible, but below the point of fringing), I get some ghosting. I can reduce (but not quite eliminate) the ghosting by dropping the sharpness to its minimum, but I get a softer picture as result. I think there's some deeper problem that lowering the sharpness is masking, but I don't know what or how else to manage it. I've settled on a compromise - minor ghosting and a somewhat soft picture.

-Sean

jazz_24_7

01-01-06, 04:14 PM

I've searched through this thread and read the review at cine4home.de concerning the overly active sharpness enhancement and it seems to be a common issue. But, I am confident that it was not present on the first 900 I had.

When I spoke with Panasonic tech support about the soft picture and the sharpness control artifact he told me that I should not be seeing it at "0" setting so I don’t know.

Within a few minutes of watching the second unit I decided the picture just wasn't as good that’s when I went looking for the why.

bubbawilly

01-01-06, 04:45 PM

picciano

01-01-06, 06:54 PM

Here is the URL for the English version of the AE900 manual in PDF format. http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_manual_3017.pdf

lax01

01-01-06, 07:06 PM

is this the service manual? or just the regular one?

thaxx

01-01-06, 08:19 PM

So, Bubbawilly
You never did say if your 4th unit is a keeper?

tubaprde

01-01-06, 08:36 PM

<explitive deleted>!!! I just read the fine print on the rebate. "Must be postmarked within one month of purchace"
Date I ordered: November 30
Today: December 31

Arrrrrrg!!!!!!

Still sending it in, because if I don't there is a 100% of not getting the rebate.
Whereas now there is only a 99.9999999999999% chance of not getting it...

Brian
"you snooze, you lose"

ahhh- got some info that will make u happy...its from the date that it arrived at your house from shipment, not the invoice date... good luck to you, i'm in the same situation!

pepar

01-01-06, 11:11 PM

I think there's something to this. When I set the sharpness as "correctly" as possible using test patterns (high enough to resolve as much detail as possible, but below the point of fringing), I get some ghosting. I can reduce (but not quite eliminate) the ghosting by dropping the sharpness to its minimum, but I get a softer picture as result. I think there's some deeper problem that lowering the sharpness is masking, but I don't know what or how else to manage it. I've settled on a compromise - minor ghosting and a somewhat soft picture.

-Sean
The sharpness control does not add any "information." It monkeys with what is already there. In my book, that is bad, so I always set if off/minimum. I think the sharpness control is only useful on CRTs. Try it, become accustomed to *real* detail and you will probably not ever use it again on an LCD.

Just my $.02.

Boise

01-01-06, 11:41 PM

I just read this entire thread.

I am not sure if I should be lauded or flamed for having read it all.

I am inbetween having let my ae700 go and my ae900 arriving, so I do seem to have more time.

I learned a couple of things that may help me.

The first is that if I remove my screen, paint all of my walls off-white and then project on a bedsheet, I may find the image much more incredible.

I probably won't though, as I have a comfortable love for my former 700 and hope the 900 is as good. I don't expect either to have the picture of my former NEC 6PG, but then, I spent a lot more time watching DVD's on the 700 as the last years of the 6PG were labor intensive. I also didn't want to fork out as much cash on a used CRT or put off a nice car for a new one. The GAF (like WAF only different) has also definately improved with the 700. It was as if I had sold her favorite kitten as opposed to the "Thank the Highest Power Above!" response when I moved from CRT.

I can't wait for my 900 to arrive. :)

Oh, the second thing was, I noticed a lot of discussion about what looked to me like a Blue de-focus. This to me seems completely normal, but I could be wrong.
The reason is that Blue has the lowest wavelength of the three colors. I always would defocus Blue slightly on my FP CRT so that it would show up and track grey. Blue just doesn't throw as hard.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but if you have really good convergence and Blue halos around it a bit, I would think that is pretty good. Possibly REALLY good.

I was going to upgrade the firmware on my OPPO while I was waiting for the 900 too, but now I will wait :) However, I did order the free new remote control.

I noticed AVS is selling the AE900 now and would have bought from them, but before I read this whole thread I wanted to make the purchase for the rebates (even though they might be extended). It took me several days to get through the thread, and I had already purchased by the day I got to that page. I had went to their site and did not see Panasonic listed.

I am off to the tweak thread now, thank you all for this board, I always enjoy sifting about in it when I am making a purchase, looking towards setting up a new component, etc. :)

troutseeker

01-01-06, 11:41 PM

George Montemayor

01-02-06, 12:16 AM

The sharpness control does not add any "information." It monkeys with what is already there. In my book, that is bad, so I always set if off/minimum.
Is turning sharpness off accomplished by setting its value to 0 or to the largest negative number possible?

lax01

01-02-06, 12:47 AM

Is turning sharpness off accomplished by setting its value to 0 or to the largest negative number possible?

I noticed on the Sharpness test pattern on DVE and Avia that the sharpness really didn't do anything....I just turned it down to the minimum

zgraen

01-02-06, 04:24 AM

Hello all. Unable to get any picture over hdmi. No picture from samsung dvd player or scientific atlanta set top box. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Joshz

01-02-06, 05:28 AM

Hello everyone and a great 2006 to you and your family!

I "had" a small problem that concerned me very much. I'm still trying to investigate it at this point but am wondering if anyone else ever encountered this same issue.

My AE900 looks great out of the box with no calibration. No noticable VB but I'm not very good at looking out for SDE so I can't comment on that.

My problem first surfaced when I was running thru some of my older DVDs... namely Jurassic Park 2, The Patriot and Saving Private Ryan.

In the first scene where the family is on the beach picnic-ing in Jurassic Park 2, I got 2 "flashes" of a totally black screen there. It's almost like there was no signal or picture for fractions of a second. Each flash probably lasted less than half a second.

On The Patriot dvd, it happened as well but I don't remember which scene.

Lastly, it happened during the Omaha Beach landing scene as well in Saving Private Ryan when they were showing the soliders still on the beach landing craft.

I have no idea what the cause of this problem might be. Basically, these quick "black" flashes only last fractions of a second but can happen 2-3 times in 15mins and then totally disappear over the course of the rest of the movie.

I thought this may be similar to the "hdmi lock" issue mentioned on the guidetohometheater review link posted and commented on by Wildao here.
I'm using the Denon DVD1920 dvd player if that helps.

Then I made a discovery... these "black" flashes weren't confined to just DVDs!
When I was checking the HDMI settings of the AE900 and experimenting with the 2 options... I actually saw the "black" flashes occur! This was with no DVD loaded.

The funny thing is that I've tried looking for these "black" flashes again yesterday for 2 hours - switching between different dvds and scenes and I couldn't find any more such occurances. Didn't see anything unusual on the projector menus either.

I don't know if I should feel better already or worry that it will resurface??!
Anyone has any insights or comments/ideas?

Thanks!
Josh

rwestley

01-02-06, 06:24 AM

HDMI/HDCP issues. It seems that some are having HDMI/HDCP handshake issues. I have found that the AE900 is much better than the original AE700 was. This is not to say that some will still not have a problem. I have had a few myself. Things that I have done it resolve them.

1. Make sure the cable is seated properly in both the projector and source player.
(Try another cable if problem persists.) What resolution are you using. Try 720p from the Denon.
2. I have had a problem with the handshake a few times when changing channels on my SA8300HD box and I had to change sources to reseat the cable to get the handshake to take place. I got sound by just snow. It has only happend a few times on the HD channels only. I have a switch and I blamed it on that but it has occurred a few times even without the switch.
3. The best solution for me was to reseat all the cables. Heavy cables can become loose and this has been a reported issue with HDCP/HDMI inputs. There is even talk about creating a better connection.

steviec

01-02-06, 11:41 AM

I noticed on the Sharpness test pattern on DVE and Avia that the sharpness really didn't do anything....I just turned it down to the minimum

Is turning sharpness off accomplished by setting its value to 0 or to the largest negative number possible?

Viewing the Avia sharpness pattern you can see slight ringing with the sharpness set to 0.
turning it all the way down to -4 eliminates this.Therefore -4 is actually 0.
I still prefer it set to 0.

steviec

01-02-06, 11:45 AM

My system seems to be having trouble recognizing the HDMI on DVD to receiver or receiver to projector. I got it to work switching things around several times (maybe on and off too) but when the system has been working and I switch to say play a video game, then back to watch a movie the HDMI signal does not seem to be present.

Anybody got any ideas?

I would guess it may be a hdcp problem with your reciever in line.
Try and hook up the 900 straight from your player to the projector and bypass the reciever.
After reading this thread I would say that 99% of the problems here are from the player and/or hookup configuration being used and sometimes just not enabling things in the 900 or source device menus.
Always suspect the cable and dvd player first .its usually not the 900.

tvted

01-02-06, 11:59 AM

The sharpness control does not add any "information." It monkeys with what is already there. In my book, that is bad, so I always set if off/minimum. I think the sharpness control is only useful on CRTs. Try it, become accustomed to *real* detail and you will probably not ever use it again on an LCD.

Just my $.02.

Well, it is if you consider "noise" information. ;)

Sharpness is derived by introducing high frequency noise into the data, so anything that is high frequency - edge transitions- look sharper. Ugly, unless of course you like noise introduced into your pic. Did I say "ugly"?

Trust you and yours had a good holiday season and that you were able to wander to the fridge without falling down. ;)

ted

lax01

01-02-06, 12:13 PM

Is turning sharpness off accomplished by setting its value to 0 or to the largest negative number possible?

Viewing the Avia sharpness pattern you can see slight ringing with the sharpness set to 0.
turning it all the way down to -4 eliminates this.Therefore -4 is actually 0.
I still prefer it set to 0.

I saw it on Avia too...but on DVE, it does basically nothing to the pattern unless you turn it all the way up...so I just put it down on -4 for Cinema1 and -6 on Normal...looks absolutely fine...doesn't look soft at all...

pepar

01-02-06, 12:24 PM

Is turning sharpness off accomplished by setting its value to 0 or to the largest negative number possible?
Hmmm, I'm not familiar with NEGATIVE numbers on a sharpness control. A "blurring" control, maybe? :D Dunno. A bona fide 900 owner should be able to comment on that. (I'm just visiting researching my next projector.)

jazz_24_7

01-02-06, 02:37 PM

Is either Panasonic or your dealer willing to swap the unit out for you? You and I have both been 'victims' of Panasonic's lax QC in their rush to keep up with demand on the 900.

Yes, the dealer has been great. This second unit is being swapped out tomorrow. I think as long as Panasonic is cooperative with DOA units there is no issue swapping them out. This assumes an authorized dealer.

My fingers are crossed. Hopefully three is the charm :)

bubbawilly

01-02-06, 02:38 PM

So, Bubbawilly
You never did say if your 4th unit is a keeper?

Yes. It will have to be. The lens actually has several imperfections in it, but nothing that affects the image that I can see. This unit is actually a little louder than the unit I returned with 4 scratches in the lens. The 'howling iris' is more pronounced, but after having 4 900's I can say from experience that there is a reasonable amount of variance in this area between units. No dead/stuck pixels, no VB, and no other problems.

steviec

01-02-06, 04:24 PM

Yes. It will have to be. The lens actually has several imperfections in it, but nothing that affects the image that I can see. This unit is actually a little louder than the unit I returned with 4 scratches in the lens. The 'howling iris' is more pronounced, but after having 4 900's I can say from experience that there is a reasonable amount of variance in this area between units. No dead/stuck pixels, no VB, and no other problems.

Wow! That's bad luck.Sorry to hear about it.
I think if my first unit was bad I would send it back and order another one from a different source.
If the 2nd was bad I would get a different brand.
Mine works perfectly from A/V Visual apex.

steviec

01-02-06, 04:29 PM

Hmmm, I'm not familiar with NEGATIVE numbers on a sharpness control. A "blurring" control, maybe? :D Dunno. A bona fide 900 owner should be able to comment on that. (I'm just visiting researching my next projector.)

Like I said 0 sharpness appears to be -4.
At 0,the sharpness control does add lines on the Avia sharpness pattern.
No blurring control at all.

tvted

01-02-06, 04:29 PM

Hmmm, I'm not familiar with NEGATIVE numbers on a sharpness control. A "blurring" control, maybe? :D Dunno. A bona fide 900 owner should be able to comment on that. (I'm just visiting researching my next projector.)

The 700 has negative numbers as part of its range - its a Panasonic thing.
The 700 is way over enhanced in my view and I would suspect the 900 is similar.

Zero is "OFF", Negative numbers are "MORE OFF". ;)

ted

pepar

01-02-06, 05:15 PM

Zero is "OFF", Negative numbers are "MORE OFF". ;)

ted
That's Orwellian.

HiHoStevo

01-02-06, 05:36 PM

To those having HDMI issues..........

The SA 8300 is well known for having HDMI "issues."

As somone else suggested try a good cable direct from the source box to the projector (display).

On my Brothers InFocus his SA8300 will play just fine hooked direct, but when he tries to go through his new Yahama RX-V2600 he gets the message that his display is not HDCP compatible..... :-(

It is a pity that HDMI has become such an important part of our theaters before it matured so that it actually "works!"

rwestley

01-02-06, 05:47 PM

The Panasonic AE900 works better than most units using HDMI. I have tried it with a SA8300HD and I have only had a few problems. It seems that if the signal is not strong it may take longer for the handshake and in a rare instance the handshake will not take place. If this happens I switch channels and it usually works. I have had no HDMI issues using the non recording SA box and using the 97S and Oppo dvd players. I also have
a Monoprice 4x1 switcher with their 25' cable with no problems. The HDMI problem with
the SA8300 is probably a firmware issue. Some cable operators do not update their firmware on a regular basis. I spent hours with my cable provider about a year ago. They though I was nuts but I finally convinced them that it was their
problem. They updated the firmware and HDMI worked. I have only had the SA8300HD for about a month and I have only experienced the handshake problem a few times.

tvted

01-02-06, 05:50 PM

That's Orwellian.

That would be too subtle - I was thinking Spinal Tap.

ted

HiHoStevo

01-02-06, 06:09 PM

Do you have your monorprice 4x1 HDMI switch in between the projector and the SA8300?

You may have something about the strength of the HDMI signal coming out of the 8300..., as I said direct to the InFocus TV it works just fine (6' High Quality cable)..., but when the switch (in his case a Yamaha receiver) is placed in the middle it does not work... even though the Yamaha is supposed to be HDCP compatible, as is the display.

Perhaps some of the box manufacturers are not sending a strong enough signal for a good handshake over long cables or when you have losses going through some type of switching mechanism... perhaps some type of an HDMI signal booster would help?

anyone have one to try out and report back?

bubbawilly

01-02-06, 06:36 PM

Wow! That's bad luck.Sorry to hear about it.
I think if my first unit was bad I would send it back and order another one from a different source.
If the 2nd was bad I would get a different brand.
Mine works perfectly from A/V Visual apex.

The reseller has nothing to do with Panasonic's QC problems. I'm just happy that I was working with a dealer who was willing to swap out units when they were defective. Some dealers may have insisted that I have Panasonic repair them, and I can't stomach having to send brand new gear in for repair. I bought my PT-L300U from Visual Apex. They were excellent about swapping out one with a bad temp sensor, and a second with a bunch of dead pixels. They didn't even charge my CC for the replacements while they were awaiting return of the defective units. But, that was 3 years ago, and I don't know if they would be so responsive today. I hope that they haven't changed what was exceptional customer service.

I will get a different projector, as soon as one that fits my needs is available at the right price. If I hadn't sold the 300U, I would have simply given up after the second 900, and waited to see what CES brings. It sold the 300 while the first 900 was on the way.

golfpro

01-03-06, 10:03 AM

pepar

01-03-06, 10:42 AM

Since purchasing the Oppo I've noticed that the picture my Panny 900 throws has taken on a trapezoidal shape. Does anyone know what could be causing this?? I'm running a DVI cable from the oppo with resolution set at 720p. Never did this before when running component from other DVD player!! Really love the Panny but this a bit annoying.
It sounds like it could be geometry. "Has taken on" seems to indicate that it had been OK and now it isn't? If that's the case, has it been bumped?

pepar

01-03-06, 11:16 AM

The reseller has nothing to do with Panasonic's QC problems.
I believe the thinking is that a different dealer would have a different batch of units that perhaps being from a different production run. may be less likely to be afflicted..

bubbawilly

01-03-06, 12:40 PM

Perhaps.

calv1n

01-03-06, 12:49 PM

Hello all and happy new year,

Just thought I’d weigh in about my new Panasonic AE900. It was delivered a couple weeks ago and I finally got back from work to hook it up December 21st. I’ve hooked it up downstairs to test all the components before they go into my new house and HT in the basement (hopefully June).
I have set up my 120” 1.5 Gain Da-Lite Screen which just fits in the basement room I’m using for testing. I have complete light control in this room which is extremely helpful. My set up is placing the 900 about 12’ back from the screen and using both the off-set and zoom to maximize placement and picture (not full offset and zoom but around ½ ) I’ve used a ceiling mount. I’ve hooked up a Samsung 850 DVD player with a 50’ HDMI cable and my x-box 360 using a 50’ Component cable. I don’t require these lengths for this set up but will for my new house and wanted to test the cables (from monoprice). I’m 100% satisfied with both the cables and the pictures no problems what so ever.
The 360 is definitely a much sharper and better image then any DVD’s I’ve seen but even the DVD’s are amazing it’s hard to go back to my 46” Samsung DLP, and 61” Toshiba after viewing the 900. I’ve posted a few game photos in the x-box section of the forums so I won’t repost them here but they are easy to locate so if your interested have a peek.
The only thing I may change is going to a 1.0 gain screen and going to a slightly larger screen for the new HT perhaps a 130+” range. As far as settings I’ve used a few different tweaks that are located in the tweaks section of these forums . The picture was great out of the box but the “tweaks” definitely improved the overall color and image so thanks to Jason for sending me his settings.
I put about 150 hours on the bulb in the last couple weeks and I’ve had no issues of any kind, no VB, no dead pixels just an exhilarating picture and an excellent overall experience. I can whole heartedly recommend this PJ to anyone and I have about 3 friends that are ordering them now after seeing mine in action over the holidays.

Just wanted to share my personal experience with you all and feel free to pm if you want more information.

Cheers
Calvin

pepar

01-03-06, 12:51 PM

Perhaps.
Well, that is the thinking. Whether or not it is sound is another matter. :)

myerss

01-03-06, 12:58 PM

pepar

01-03-06, 01:20 PM

Anyone have any luck with this combo? I'm seeing a better picture interlaced than progressive. The picture looks great with HD cable and with the XBox 360, but less than stellar with the Pioneer.... I'm thinking of replacing the DVD player, but it cost quite a bit and I would think should look better than this! Considering the Denon 2910????
Both the Denon 2910 and 3910 are excellent performers and the owners of either would probably argue that theirs is the best value. I own both and I'm constantly arguing with myself about it. :)

01-03-06, 01:44 PM

Got my AE900 in last week and have a couple questions:

My unit has a single stuck pixel on the far right of the screen when viewing (shelf mount). It's green and it's definately a stuck pixel - is this something I should be concerned about?

Also, I am currently using it with a 106' Greywolf pulldown screen. My room is 12x14 and is completely light controlled with dark walls and carpet, unit is shelf mounted about 13' back with seating in front of it at about 11' - I think the 1.8 gain screen may be too much for my environment as I have a slightly dark looking picture even after calibrating with VE/Avia. Would going with a lower gain screen help? I was thinking going with more of a matte while setup, perhaps a DIY Polywall or similar. Or should I be seeing better results with this screen combo/environment?

Thanks for any advice!

Edit: My source is the Oppo DVD over HDMI, HDTV is currently a Samsung set top tuner via Component although eventually I will move over to my Cox cable box when HDTV comes to my area in a month.

simpsonb

01-03-06, 01:52 PM

[QUOTE=Ix]Got my AE900 in last week and have a couple questions:

My unit has a single stuck pixel on the far right of the screen when viewing (shelf mount). It's green and it's definately a stuck pixel - is this something I should be concerned about?

My 900 has one stuck green pixel in the upper right corner, about 12" in and down. It's noticable when viewing the screen except when I purposly look for it on a solid color background, and then I really have to look for it. I have a 107" screen sitting back 14'.

I don't think it will be noticable and Panasonic doesn't consider this a defect. Maybe if it was in the middle of the screen and it was a stuuck red or blue, maybe then?

simpsonb

01-03-06, 01:59 PM

I have my 900 and love everything about it except a slight bit of VBE. It's not really that bad and I only see it in bright white and bright blue scenes. I adjusted the flicker and panels to eliminate most of it but it's still there. Also, I notice it more when I first turn on the PJ, it becomes less as the PJ warms up, say after 30 min. After that it pretty much disappears but every once in a while it pops up in solid scenes.

Is this considered acceptable VBE or shoud I complain? I know some VBE is a product of LCD but when it's noticable like this. Am I too picky? I have 1 more week until my 30 days are up. I got it from Visual Apex. I talked to them once about it and he said it's what is expected from LCD panels.

Like I said, it's not distracting but is noticable when you look for it. I hate to exchange it for another since this 900 is great with color, convergence and light distribution across the screen. Quiet too.

simpsonb

01-03-06, 02:09 PM

Both the Denon 2910 and 3910 are excellent performers and the owners of either would probably argue that theirs is the best value. I own both and I'm constantly arguing with myself about it. :)

I have the Denon 1910 connected via 16' HDMI and the picture is awesome, completely stable with rich color! I'm using the 720p output on the Denon. The player only cost me $210.

All I play is DVD's on it, but CD's are great sounding too. If you can still find it, it's a good low cost player. I don't know what Denon replaced it though.

pepar

01-03-06, 02:16 PM

I have the Denon 1910 connected via 16' HDMI and the picture is awesome, completely stable with rich color! I'm using the 720p output on the Denon. The player only cost me $210.

All I play is DVD's on it, but CD's are great sounding too. If you can still find it, it's a good low cost player. I don't know what Denon replaced it though.
I think it's current.

tony_c

01-03-06, 03:10 PM

I finally got the AE900U to work with my FX5200 video card (adding a modeline, and 'ignore EDID' flag), but the problem is when I exit X, the projector cannot display standard text screens, so I'm blind if I need to debug something outside of X environment or during bootup. I've tried both Analog & DVI and both with same result. I'm using Linux, but I presume the same problem would exist with Windows as well. Anyone have this problem?

Thx, Tony

pepar

01-03-06, 03:33 PM

orangezero

01-03-06, 06:36 PM

Hey all,

Just got my ae900 today at work and should be getting home tonight at 6pm to fire it up. One problem, my friends are coming over to watch revenge of the sith tonight at about 6pm also.

i'm planning to hook it up to my nforce2 amd motherboard with an ati radeon 9800 agp. dvi to hdmi cable into the projector. anything i need to know about this in particular? any driver issues with the radeon? i thought i read somewhere that people were having some trouble with the ae700 syncing with radeon cards but didn't find much in this thread with the radeon. It seems that some of what i've read is really cable issues due to long runs, mine will only be 15ft. would a smaller cable do anything for me, if i can squeeze it in?

my roommate just bought an lg dvd planner with upconversion and hdmi so i might do a comparision to see the difference with zoomplayer/radeon 9800 vs the lg machine sometime.

thanks,