Panny AE900 Official Thread- Please post here! [Text View] - Page 12

reganv

01-04-06, 09:45 AM

jazz_24_7

01-04-06, 10:18 AM

[QUOTE=reganv]Hello,

I am experiencing ghost / ringing around images on my new PT-AE900E that I find very distracting.

/QUOTE]

You can look back at my recent posts in this thread complaining about my AE900 and ghostin related to the sharpness control. I found it easiest to see with white on black text (credits) or better yet a convergence pattern from one of the test disks.

This ghosting apparently is not uncommon but I don't think it's correct.

frass

01-04-06, 10:28 AM

I saw the same thing on certain dvds. I then put them in my other player
on a standard television and the same ghost lines were still there.
They were smaller so I never noticed them before I blew the DVD up
to 106". Maybe not the projector and the DVD transfer.

tvted

01-04-06, 10:49 AM

Hello,

I am experiencing ghost / ringing around images on my new PT-AE900E that I find very distracting.

This looks like Edge Enhancement to me.
See http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm

Some DVD's are more guilty than others as are some players. The AE700, in my view, is over enhanced and I would expect the 900 to exhibit the same issues as the processing is the same. Your only recourse is to lower the SHARPNESS as much as possible.

You might also check the DVD forum re the S97 to see if there is a way of reducing it at source.

ted

eliocon

01-04-06, 10:55 AM

Hello,

I am experiencing ghost / ringing around images on my new PT-AE900E that I find very distracting.

I recently received a Panasonic S97 HDMI dvd player and two new 10m HDMI cables. IXOS and QED.

I have tried different DVD players (Denon and Sony) as well as two short 1m QED and IXOS Scarts and I am still experience the same problem on different PJ inputs.

So I don’t think it’s the DVD player(s) or the cables, I believe it to be a projector issue.

It is much more noticeable on Animations (Monsters Inc) than normal movies (Stars Wars III) although I do still notice it on normal movies .

When I phoned Panasonic technical support in the UK (I live in the UK) and eventually spoke to an engineer he told me this is normal?1 Surely not? :confused:

Well I have a 180cm wide 16:9 DRH Lite 1.0 white screen (from drhscreens) and I have increased my viewing distance to 380cm (more than 2x the screen width) and I can still notice this ghosting/ringing on some objections. I have also played with Sharpness and brightness, but none of these make the problem go away.

I usually have sharpness set to 0 or -2.

I have attached some screen shots taken on my digital camera from about 200cm away from the screen to illustrate the problem.

Can you please have a look and let me know if this is normal?

Is there a Avia Test pattern or a PC program that I can use to “prove” that I have a ghosting/ringing problem.

Thanks in advance,

Regan
I think what you're seeing is edge enhancement. It's actually in the DVD itself. Some DVDs have a lot of it. Some none at all. I see the same thing on my Monsters, Inc. DVD on a regular TV as well as my Panny.

Elio

jazz_24_7

01-04-06, 11:20 AM

My dealer swapped out my AE900 again and this one looks just like the first one.

To recap quickly:

The first one was great except that on a grey or white screen there was an obvious red tinge on the right edge of he picture and a blue one on the left. No ghosting at "0" sharpness.

Second unit just didn’t look right. The image lacked crispness with obvious edge ghosting even at a "0" sharpness. But, the color uniformity was fine.

Third unit looks as good as the first but again the exact same color uniformity issue as well as some red unevenness across a white screen. Very slight ghosting with the sharpness at "0".

The first projector was from a November shipment of 100 units. The second and third were from a December shipment of 50 again straight from Japan..

I’ve decided not to play any more roulette. This last projector is definitely watchable. I will probably approach local Panasonic service to see if they are receptive to my complaint and if they think they can adjust it away.

No more swapping out. It's time to watch some movies!

lax01

01-04-06, 11:45 AM

jazz_24_7

01-04-06, 12:25 PM

have you tried calibrating it? Or asking Panasonic for instructions on how to use the Service Menu?

I haven't fiddled with calibration (yet). I would think that any sort of calibration would affect the entire picture in a uniform fashion.

A quick look at the AE700 service manual shows a procedure for adjusting mirrors/reflectors to obtain a uniform white picture Apparently the projector is also loaded with data that corrects the LCD panel uniformity.

Highside

01-04-06, 12:26 PM

I just got my 900 hooked up last week and had a few questions about calibrating as well as some of the terms that I am reading on here.

Background:
900
DIY Blackout Cloth screen
Mits. 3100 DVD player (480p) {OLD!!!} - component hook up

Did all of the basic adjustments with DVE and cinema 1 mode (closest to 6500K according to several on this site) and I really enjoy the picture but was wondering if there is anything more that I can do.........

What is this "flicker" thing I am reading about and is it something that needs to be adjusted? How do I do that?

I get the VERY basics of overscan but can someone explain in dummy terms? I heard that it is defaulted on and can be turned off, How?

What is the needle pulse test on the DVE and what is it supposed to check for?

Thanks for the help..

rwestley

01-04-06, 01:18 PM

Highside, You only need the flicker tweak if you have a VB problem. If you want to improve CR and blacks you might want to try a filter. See the AE900 tweaks thread. You can turn off overscan in one of the menus. Try turning it so you can get 1x1 pixel mapping.

muzz

01-04-06, 04:36 PM

Search this thread for "VB" and you will find a lot of posts. Some have downplayed the incidence of VB in the AE900, but as someone who is, or had been, seriously considering the 900 as an upgrade to the Sony HS20, I am a bit alarmed. One member is getting his FOURTH 900 having returned the previous three for VB. As such, I have paused and gone into "wait-and-see" mode on the 900. And now, with CES being so close and - perhaps - yet another generation of LCD panels about to be debuted, waiting seems to be prudent.

Just my $.02.

VB..

AGAIN!!??

Man......

pepar

01-04-06, 04:52 PM

VB..

AGAIN!!??

Man......
What are you trying to say?

muzz

01-04-06, 06:33 PM

What are you trying to say?

I shortened it from:
Man, what is the problem with these clowns..

To:

VB

AGAIN!!!??

Man.....

I think it pretty much explains what I feel about an issue that SHOULDN"T be one.

pepar

01-04-06, 07:04 PM

I shortened it from:
Man, what is the problem with these clowns..

To:

VB

AGAIN!!!??

Man.....

I think it pretty much explains what I feel about an issue that SHOULDN"T be one.
Roger that.

reganv

01-05-06, 06:04 AM

Hello,

I am experiencing ghost / ringing around images on my new PT-AE900E that I find very distracting.

I recently received a Panasonic S97 HDMI dvd player and two new 10m HDMI cables. IXOS and QED.

I have tried different DVD players (Denon and Sony) as well as two short 1m QED and IXOS Scarts and I am still experience the same problem on different PJ inputs.

So I don’t think it’s the DVD player(s) or the cables, I believe it to be a projector issue.

It is much more noticeable on Animations (Monsters Inc) than normal movies (Stars Wars III) although I do still notice it on normal movies .

When I phoned Panasonic technical support in the UK (I live in the UK) and eventually spoke to an engineer he told me this is normal?1 Surely not? :confused:

Well I have a 180cm wide 16:9 DRH Lite 1.0 white screen (from drhscreens) and I have increased my viewing distance to 380cm (more than 2x the screen width) and I can still notice this ghosting/ringing on some objections. I have also played with Sharpness and brightness, but none of these make the problem go away.

I usually have sharpness set to 0 or -2.

I have attached some screen shots taken on my digital camera from about 200cm away from the screen to illustrate the problem.

Can you please have a look and let me know if this is normal?

Is there a Avia Test pattern or a PC program that I can use to “prove” that I have a ghosting/ringing problem.

Thanks in advance,

Regan

Hi,

Thanks for all the responses.

I have been doing some further investigation and I even get ghosting/ringing on Avia Sharpness test and some ghosting on the edge of the Grey Scale test patterns. Please see attached.

I understand the comments about edge enhancement (EE), which I now understand after some further investigation. I didn’t even know EE existed Thanks TVTED, but surely the Avia dvd should not be doing any edge enhancement and hence I should not be getting any ghosting/ringing?

The projector sharpness was set to 0.

I can reduce the sharpness to -6, but even this does not totally remove the ghosting.

Should I be sending this unit back?

Thanks,
Regan

Joshz

01-05-06, 07:01 AM

Reganv,

Wow that does look pretty bad but I'm no expert!
I only know mine doesn't look like that... been using Cinema1 mode with Sharpness turned down to -4 I think which is the max it would allow. :(

Yeah, I saw some of my dvds and thought the ringing was the fault of the AE900 till I saw the links to EE info. Now that makes sense cause the ringing isn't consistent across dvds... some have it worst! Guess that's the downside of a bigger screen! I don't see much ringing/ghosting on my AVIA disc so I think alot of it could be source material.

Yours, however, shows up even on the test patterns. If you can't calibrate it away... might need a change of unit.

tbergman

01-05-06, 08:19 AM

Having seen similar results with both my ae700 and now my ae900 I have a few comments. First of all, I'm using a panasonic S77 DVD player. The S77 does a substantial amount of sharpening and needs to have it's sharpening setting set to -7 before I can even begin to evaluate the sharpness settings in the projector.

I have also found that using the HDMI output results in sharpening artifacts that cannot be removed regardless of the settings on the projector or DVD player.

Component, OTOH, allows me to correctly set the sharpening on the projector to eliminate excessive halos etc. My usual projector setting is -2.

You may want to try the component output of your DVD player. In my experience, the scaling on the projector is at least as good as that of the DVD player and I prefer the results using 480P and component rather than 720P or 1080i and HDMI. Oddly enough, the 480i output has MUCH less contrast than 480P and requires substantial projector contrast adjustments (+13 or so).

Tom

Hi,

Thanks for all the responses.

I have been doing some further investigation and I even get ghosting/ringing on Avia Sharpness test and some ghosting on the edge of the Grey Scale test patterns. Please see attached.

I understand the comments about edge enhancement (EE), which I now understand after some further investigation. I didn’t even know EE existed Thanks TVTED, but surely the Avia dvd should not be doing any edge enhancement and hence I should not be getting any ghosting/ringing?

The projector sharpness was set to 0.

I can reduce the sharpness to -6, but even this does not totally remove the ghosting.

Should I be sending this unit back?

Thanks,
Regan

frass

01-05-06, 08:22 AM

Does anyone know why some people can reduce sharpness to -6
while some can to -4 and I can only go to -2.
Is it input related. I am using component with 480p.
Thanks

pepar

01-05-06, 08:48 AM

Does anyone know why some people can reduce sharpness to -6
while some can to -4 and I can only go to -2.
Is it input related. I am using component with 480p.
Thanks
The -6 people have the Spinal Tap Edition, right tvted? :)

You've got the Yanni Edition.

Troy

01-05-06, 09:24 AM

I too am having a problem with the exact same ringing effect. Have tried different sources and cables with no improvement. Reducung sharpness helped some. Very noticeable on the text at the beginning of Gladiator. 70 hours on the bulb now but less than 30 days since purchase at PP so I am not sure what I can do. Was thinking about trying the Oppo and HDMI/DVI cable but after reading the post above I wonder if its worth the time. I hate to try to return the pj and start looking all over again plus my boys would have a fit since they use it for Xbox which seems less effected. Technology sure can be a pain.

lax01

01-05-06, 09:31 AM

Does anyone know why some people can reduce sharpness to -6
while some can to -4 and I can only go to -2.
Is it input related. I am using component with 480p.
Thanks

I think it has to do with whichever preset your're on...Normal, Cinema1, Cinema2, Natural, etc...I don't know why they decided to do this

frass

01-05-06, 09:50 AM

Thank you lax01 .

reganv

01-05-06, 10:12 AM

Does anyone know why some people can reduce sharpness to -6
while some can to -4 and I can only go to -2.
Is it input related. I am using component with 480p.
Thanks

The sharpness limit seems to be based on your input method i.e. -6 for HDMI and
-2 to for Component, probably something else for SCART ;)

Regards,
Regan

lax01

01-05-06, 10:13 AM

The sharpness limit seems to be based on your input method i.e. -6 for HDMI and
-2 to for Component, probably something else for SCART ;)

Regards,
Regan

well I'm only using HDMI and I noticed that on Normal you can goto -6 but on Cinema1 you can only goto -4...so it might be input based and preset based

reganv

01-05-06, 10:15 AM

Having seen similar results with both my ae700 and now my ae900 I have a few comments. First of all, I'm using a panasonic S77 DVD player. The S77 does a substantial amount of sharpening and needs to have it's sharpening setting set to -7 before I can even begin to evaluate the sharpness settings in the projector.

I have also found that using the HDMI output results in sharpening artifacts that cannot be removed regardless of the settings on the projector or DVD player.

Component, OTOH, allows me to correctly set the sharpening on the projector to eliminate excessive halos etc. My usual projector setting is -2.

You may want to try the component output of your DVD player. In my experience, the scaling on the projector is at least as good as that of the DVD player and I prefer the results using 480P and component rather than 720P or 1080i and HDMI. Oddly enough, the 480i output has MUCH less contrast than 480P and requires substantial projector contrast adjustments (+13 or so).

Tom

I have now tried SCART, Component (interlaced and progressive), and HDMI all produce ghosting and ringing on Avia Sharpness test Pattern.

The unit is going back tomorrow. :mad:

Thanks for all the suggestions and help

Regan

lax01

01-05-06, 10:16 AM

have you tried the different presets? Try Cinema1

sajkhan

01-05-06, 10:54 AM

hi there,

I too had a swap from a november batch to a december batch and have noticed a lack of sharpness at 0, i think the sharpness adjustment at 0 was centered more and now seems to have more positive room or less negative, i havent played with it too much but, have definitley noticed a lack of crispness. any suggestions would be appreciated

saj

tvted

01-05-06, 11:43 AM

but surely the Avia dvd should not be doing any edge enhancement and hence I should not be getting any ghosting/ringing?
Regan

EE is part of the processing chain. In the case of some source it is encoded in, and no matter what you do, you cannot remove it. AVIA and DVE do not have EE encoded in the data.

However since it is an element introduced in processing, parts of the display chain can also introduce it - your DVD player or your display.

You could look for a sharpness setting (or something akin) on your player or if possible swap it out with another model DVD player, or take it back to the dealer and set it up there and compare.

Perhaps the 900's processing circuitry has enough variance such that some units exhibit more EE than others. People who have swapped out their 900's have mentioned PQ differences related to sharpness and "focus". Whether this is circuitry or variances in the prisms used for Smoothscreen is unknown. EE would be processing and not optical like Smoothscreen.

Also, as you stated, SHARPNESS range is dependent on what input channel is being used - at least on my 700.

ted

bubbawilly

01-05-06, 02:00 PM

I have now tried SCART, Component (interlaced and progressive), and HDMI all produce ghosting and ringing on Avia Sharpness test Pattern.

The unit is going back tomorrow. :mad:

Thanks for all the suggestions and help

Regan

I've seen this ringing in DVE patterns as well. As someone else mentioned, it can be virtually eliminated over 480P component, but not with 720P HDMI. There are other tradeoffs, however.

I know that the low-res images posted here may not do your situation justice, but what I see in your pics, I've seen in 4 AE900's, so it doesn't look 'abnormal' in that respect.

As to variance between 900 units, I've found that they can vary quite a bit in many areas between even units with the same production date. However, the one thing that I noticed consistently among the 4 units I had, with 3 different production dates, was the minor ringing. Does that mean it's the source, or the projector? I suspect it's a combination of both.

pepar

01-05-06, 02:08 PM

As to variance between 900 units, I've found that they can vary quite a bit in many areas between even units with the same production date.
I've raised this before and was met by a phalanx of AE900 cheerleaders, so I'll take a different tack. Is this amount of variation normal for a projector in this price range?

jumpy27

01-05-06, 03:10 PM

I've seen this ringing in DVE patterns as well. As someone else mentioned, it can be virtually eliminated over 480P component, but not with 720P HDMI. There are other tradeoffs, however.

I know that the low-res images posted here may not do your situation justice, but what I see in your pics, I've seen in 4 AE900's, so it doesn't look 'abnormal' in that respect.

As to variance between 900 units, I've found that they can vary quite a bit in many areas between even units with the same production date. However, the one thing that I noticed consistently among the 4 units I had, with 3 different production dates, was the minor ringing. Does that mean it's the source, or the projector? I suspect it's a combination of both.

I think it is the projector. One of the reviews (I forget which one) listed this as one of the faults of this projector, at least compared to other projectors in this class range. Maybe someone else can refresh my memory as to which review it was that noticed the ringing or halos on their test disc.

Scrawner

01-05-06, 05:21 PM

Food for thought.... I too experience the ringing effect. From the marketing dept:

New Dynamic Sharpness Control
Conventional projectors emphasize sharpness without regard for differences in brightness. This can cause a halo or "ringing" effect around the edges of objects, reducing their perceived threedimensionality. Dynamic Sharpness Control automatically detects the brightness around the target pixels as scenes change. It prevents the application of unnecessary sharpness to pixels with large changes in the brightness level. Sharpness is only added to pixels with small changes in brightness level. The application of sharpness is adjusted for diagonally adjoining pixels as well as vertically and horizontally adjacent pixels. This largely eliminates noise amplification and delivers clearer, more natural looking images. The PT-AE900 also features a newly redesigned sharpness filter that further enhances the reproduction of fine detail along the edges of objects.

jandawil

01-05-06, 05:45 PM

In case anyone didn't already know, Panasonic has extended their $200 rebate and $300 Blockbuster credit through the end of March. Was anyone really surprised at that??? Here is the link (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=94768&catGroupId=21360&modelNo=PT-AE900U&surfModel=PT-AE900U). Now we can safely sit on the fence and await what CES may or may not bring us.

thaxx

01-05-06, 06:04 PM

jazz_24_7

01-05-06, 06:05 PM

The very useful post #1442 in this thread lists the reviews for the AE900. The review that was critical with regard to EE was cene4home.de

I can reiterate what I have seen with three out of the box projectors looking at the convergence pattern supplied with DVE. One had no artifacts. One had faint but distinct lines parallel to all the grid lines and the third one has very faint lines. All at "0" sharpness all with Cinima1 (although the other modes didn’t seem to change it much). These lines were more distinct with the sharpness control set higher. All using HDMI at 720p

Changing to a different DVD player through component (480p) showed the same lines on the second projector. The picture on the second unit was just not as good as thge other two.

The quote from Panasonic concerning Dynamic Sharpening has me wondering if it wasn't operating properly on the second projector.. The convergence grid is white on black. Since this is a high contrast scene the Dynamic Sharpening should not have been operating but it was and to excess.

thaxx

01-05-06, 07:00 PM

Great!
Thanks a lot guys.
Now I have found a defect I hadn't noticed before you mentioned it.
I'm referring to the ghosting with AVIA sharpness check.
I'm still under my hour quota to return the pj. But don't know if i'll return it. I guess if this is considered a defect, I have 30 days to exchange.
I haven't reconnected my AE500 to see if I can see the ghosting on it.

Have any of you others with this problem, compared it to your old pj?
Thanks

muzz

01-05-06, 09:57 PM

vtgt

01-06-06, 12:09 AM

I just bought the Panasonic AE900U and looking for a decent DVD player. My receiver is Pioneer VSX-72TX. I am a newbie. Please help. Thanks. :confused:

jandawil

01-06-06, 12:15 AM

I just bought the Panasonic AE900U and looking for a decent DVD player. My receiver is Pioneer VSX-72TX. I am a newbie. Please help. Thanks. :confused:

The OPPO OPDV971H seems to be the player of choice around here. It's an upscaling 1080i DVD player and an incredible value at $199 and has DVI out as well as component. Should more than hold us over until HD DVD or Blue-ray end their slug-fest. I have not heard one negative thing said about it.

hemster

01-06-06, 01:31 AM

OPPO: - Some people have complained about the latest firmware causing some issues...(sorry I don't recall exactly what issues) but I recently upgraded mine with the latest firmware and have had no issues at all. I strongly recommend OPPO as a great product.

~hemster

trilo

01-06-06, 07:59 AM

I just got my 900 and I noticed it has a shipping label on it from 10/12/05 to the distributor. This means the unit was in an early batch. I have read about people talking about November and December build dates. Should I be concerned that this unit is an early build date? Has Panny improved the units as different batches come out? Thanks for the replies.

Troy

01-06-06, 08:25 AM

The OPPO OPDV971H seems to be the player of choice around here. It's an upscaling 1080i DVD player and an incredible value at $199 and has DVI out as well as component. Should more than hold us over until HD DVD or Blue-ray end their slug-fest. I have not heard one negative thing said about it.

Search for the thread called "Rate Your Oppo Dvd Player" in the DVD Player forum and you hear about a lot of issues including lip synch problems (corrected by stopping and restarting the DVD) and not playing some store bought DVDs at all. It is also said to do poorly when using compnent out and very well using HDMI out so plan on using HDMI out. Most seem to still love the DVD player due to it's excellent picture and perceived value. Apparently the remote control was also updated and the company was supplying new ones for a nominal cost around $5.00. Perhaps more recent updates have corrected the problems and newer units ship with the better remote. I am not sure since I didn't read the entire thread or pay a lot of attetion to how old the comments werte. I have been thinking about getting the Oppo to improve my picture quality but do not currently have an Oppo so this is all second hand info. Note that these comments are not just regarding use with the 900 which may also effect your results, hopefully in a good way. It has been suggested that a good, yet somewhat inexpensive, HDMI to DVI cable can be purchased at Monoprice.com, which you will need to run between the Oppo and the 900. Good return policy at Monoprice in case it doesn't work out but check the return policy on the DVD player seller. I have seen the Oppo at ProjectorPeople.com and Amazon and I don't think the price varies much. ProjectorPeople is a supporter of this forum and when I bought my 900 from them it was here, as promised, in 3 days so so far they have not failed me althought since Christmas their response to technical questions has been MIA.

New question, will picture quality with the HDMI/DVI cable be effected if it is 50' long? I need about 35' and 50' seems to be the shortest cable that fits the need?

frass

01-06-06, 08:49 AM

Does anyone know what the other selections in the service menu do?
525i ?(I think that is what it was), hdmi hot -on/off and initilize.
Not at home right now, so I think those are the other choices besides
flicker and panel adjustments.

vtgt

01-06-06, 10:46 AM

pepar

01-06-06, 10:55 AM

Thanks. I am debating between OPPO and Panny S97. I think the HDMI interface should not be a problem between two Pannies. :confused:
Don't know your budget, but the Denon 2910 is excellent, too.

mtnsean

01-06-06, 10:57 AM

Hi,

Thanks for all the responses.

I have been doing some further investigation and I even get ghosting/ringing on Avia Sharpness test and some ghosting on the edge of the Grey Scale test patterns. Please see attached.

I understand the comments about edge enhancement (EE), which I now understand after some further investigation. I didn’t even know EE existed Thanks TVTED, but surely the Avia dvd should not be doing any edge enhancement and hence I should not be getting any ghosting/ringing?

The projector sharpness was set to 0.

I can reduce the sharpness to -6, but even this does not totally remove the ghosting.

Should I be sending this unit back?

Thanks,
Regan

Regan-

Yours looks basically just like mine (with sharpness set to 0). When I take sharpness down to its minimum (-4 for Cinema1 over HDMI), it helps a fair amount, but I still see some ringing. That bums me out a bit, but I'm past my 30-day return period and right now I don't want to mess with sending it in for warranty service. That said, when I put the same Avia disc into another DVD player attached to my 32" flat panel Panasonic, I see pretty much the same thing even when I take sharpness down to its minimum. I'm not saying that the problem is in the disc, since on my computer I only see very faint ringing, but I'm also not convinced another Panny 900 would be any better.

Would someone with an Avia disc and a Panny 900 be willing to post pics of their sharpness pattern where it doesn't show any ghosting/ringing? I'd like to get a sense of just how much better it can look on a "good" Panny so I know how far off mine is.

Thanks,
Sean

jandawil

01-06-06, 12:22 PM

OK....I've been waiting to pull the trigger on this PJ and my boss bought one based on my recommendation and it's looks horrible!!!! Bad ghosting. The worst I've seen on these forums. He's used both VGA as well as new component cables from his player. The attached pics are from his on screen menu display which isn't source specific. I definitely think there is a problem with the PJ. Any thoughts??

madd for dts es

01-06-06, 12:34 PM

I would return it to the seller , and swap it for another , the convergence looks way off.
i had one that needed adjustment. which was corrected and iam very happy with this model.

pepar

01-06-06, 12:38 PM

tvted

01-06-06, 12:57 PM

I've also seen this happen when the units seem to mis synch - never really explored it. Be sure the PJ is turned on before the PC boots.

Though I vote for mis-convergence like others you might also look at the POSITION menu and selct AUTO to be sure the unit is 1:1 mapped since your boss is using VGA.

ted

simpsonb

01-06-06, 01:21 PM

I have my 900 and love everything about it except a slight bit of VBE. It's not really that bad and I only see it in bright white and bright blue scenes. I adjusted the flicker and panels to eliminate most of it but it's still there. Also, I notice it more when I first turn on the PJ, it becomes less as the PJ warms up, say after 30 min. After that it pretty much disappears but every once in a while it pops up in solid scenes.

Is this considered acceptable VBE or shoud I complain? I know some VBE is a product of LCD but when it's noticable like this. Am I too picky? I have 1 more week until my 30 days are up. I got it from Visual Apex. I talked to them once about it and he said it's what is expected from LCD panels.

Like I said, it's not distracting but is noticable when you look for it. I hate to exchange it for another since this 900 is great with color, convergence and light distribution across the screen. Quiet too.

Well, I called my dealer and they are going to take it back to look at it. If they find it's at all noticable they will send me a new unit. I just hope I get one that has no other flaws, mine now is perfect except for the VBE. They said that I shouldn't be able to see any banding in a proper unit so well see what happens.

Does anyone else have VBE issues like mine, not that distracting but noticable? Please respond.

thaxx

01-06-06, 01:24 PM

Concerning the ringing, ghosting problem people are talking about.
I have tried my AVIA disc on multiple TV's, , projectors with different cables and DVD players.
With all of them, I can see the same ringing to some degree.

pepar

01-06-06, 01:30 PM

OK....I've been waiting to pull the trigger on this PJ and my boss bought one based on my recommendation and it's looks horrible!!!!
So, jandawil, is your job in jeopardy? :)

simpsonb

01-06-06, 01:59 PM

I read on another forum that a lot of people are getting 900 units with VB. Has anybody out there gotten one of these, and how did returning it and getting another unit workout. Also where did you purchase it and how long did it take. Thankx, I was going to also get the pana 900 before I read so many people are unhappy.

Read my post on 1/6/06. When I first got my 900 I did not notice it at all and I looked for it. After about 25 hours of use I started to notice it, sometimes it was very noticable. After 30min warm up time it starts do dimminish a bit. I'll probably send it back next week after I do some more testing this weekend. I got it from VA and they've been great to work with. I almost hessitate to replace it because everything else is perfect on the unit, except the VBE. I don't want to swap it out for another issue like convergence or something. It's difficult to train you eye to NOT look for it after you notice it once :-(

jandawil

01-06-06, 02:16 PM

So, jandawil, is your job in jeopardy? :)

LOL...naw... He's a cool guy. He ordered it from Visual Apex and I hear their service is good. He's going to get a new unit.

I've also seen this happen when the units seem to mis synch - never really explored it. Be sure the PJ is turned on before the PC boots.

Though I vote for mis-convergence like others you might also look at the POSITION menu and selct AUTO to be sure the unit is 1:1 mapped since your boss is using VGA.

It did it with VGA from his laptop as well as component from his DVD so it's not the imput.

simpsonb

01-06-06, 02:59 PM

Read my post on 1/6/06. When I first got my 900 I did not notice it at all and I looked for it. After about 25 hours of use I started to notice it, sometimes it was very noticable. After 30min warm up time it starts do dimminish a bit. I'll probably send it back next week after I do some more testing this weekend. I got it from VA and they've been great to work with. I almost hessitate to replace it because everything else is perfect on the unit, except the VBE. I don't want to swap it out for another issue like convergence or something. It's difficult to train you eye to NOT look for it after you notice it once :-(

Well, I called Panasonic about the VBE and although mine is very slight, he recommended a few things that have been shown to almost eliminate VBE in most cases.

#1 Turn OFF the master power switch between uses, cutting the power completely from the unit. He couldn't say why this works but form the calls they've been getting, this seems to almost eliminate it or drastically reduce it. This he said is the most effective method of eliminating VBE and is recommended by Panasonic.

!!!!NOTE: Be sure to allow the fan to cool the bulb before cutting the power, so turn it off with the remote then after the fan has stopped, then turn off the master power switch.

#2 Turn the PJ on and WAIT 5 MIN until feeding it a signal, this will allow the panels to warm up before a signal hits them. I don't know what this does but he said it has helped other people.

#3 Some people have noticed that feeding the player a 720p signal gives a bit of VB so try 1080i instead, some prople have noticed this has helped.

I told him that I was thinking of sending it back and he told me that the unit I get to replace it may be worse and not to take the chance (maybe they're told to say this, I don't know). But he said it's inherient to the technology which is true. And since my PJ is pretty perfect in every other way, I'm going to try these suggestions and see if they help. Again, the VB on my PJ is subtle and pretty much goes away when I'm engrossed in the movie and don't look for it, it never really stood out bad anyway. And it's better after say 30 min of use.

Oh, and he also told me that VB can crop up at any point, either early or late in the PJ's life. Some people report that it goes away after some time.

Now, all this may be smoke and mirrors but I'll tray anything compared to sending this "almost perfect" unit back and getting something with a different or worse problem.

Hope this helps someone that is having VB issues. Please report back if anyone trys these things and if they helped.

movieumovieme

01-06-06, 03:06 PM

simpsonb

01-06-06, 03:25 PM

Now my question...
Has anybody ever noticed a kind of screen door effect in certain image transitions? It seems to be mostly prevelant when watching HD [cable] TV. It's not all the time, and I can't figure out if it's my eyes playing tricks, or there is a real problem. It's not across the entire image, just certain parts. I have witnessed it while watching DVDs too, but not as frequently.

Other than that, the picture is fantastic with HD and DVDs. There are some times while watching hockey that is supposedly in HD, where the image looks out of focus, but when a commercial comes on it is much sharper -- but I'd assume that's the broadcast. I don't think I need a screen -- the contrasts are great, colors rich... BUT... would a screen hide that "screen door effect?"

Thanks!

I don't believe a screen would make a difference. Try changing the cables and make sure they aren't up against any power cables.

jazz_24_7

01-06-06, 03:44 PM

I've spent nearly 2 hours reading these posts, but I haven't seen any mention the "problem" I THINK I'm having!

Now my question...
Has anybody ever noticed a kind of screen door effect in certain image transitions? It seems to be mostly prevelant when watching HD [cable] TV. It's not all the time, and I can't figure out if it's my eyes playing tricks, or there is a real problem. It's not across the entire image, just certain parts. I have witnessed it while watching DVDs too, but not as frequently.

I've seen something similar ands it’s not SDE from the panels. It occurs only with HD signals from my SA8300. I'm using HDMI and 1080i. There is some sort of a black grid but it’s on an angle so I see diamonds rather than normal SDE squares and the grid is significantly larger than a pixel. I only see it occasionally and briefly so I assume it is some sort of HD artifact. Never saw it with DVD.

tubaprde

01-06-06, 03:44 PM

Hi All,

I swaped my old (dvi input) comcast box for a new (hdmi input) comcast box yesterday. I'm using component out for both. I must say the image on regular (non-hidef) channels is twice as good with the new box than the old one!! :p :D
The new box must have a better proccessor or something???? :rolleyes:

If you're having big quality issues with regular channels and have a dvi input comcast box, i definitely recommend getting the new one--the best part of it all--it costs nothing to switch.

Now my ae900 looks great on any channel---not just hi-def...

Give it a try and tell me what you think?

Later...

pepar

01-06-06, 03:45 PM

Well, I called Panasonic about the VBE and although mine is very slight, he recommended a few things that have been shown to almost eliminate VBE in most cases.

#1 Turn OFF the master power switch between uses, cutting the power completely from the unit. He couldn't say why this works but form the calls they've been getting, this seems to almost eliminate it or drastically reduce it. This he said is the most effective method of eliminating VBE and is recommended by Panasonic.

!!!!NOTE: Be sure to allow the fan to cool the bulb before cutting the power, so turn it off with the remote then after the fan has stopped, then turn off the master power switch.

#2 Turn the PJ on and WAIT 5 MIN until feeding it a signal, this will allow the panels to warm up before a signal hits them. I don't know what this does but he said it has helped other people.

#3 Some people have noticed that feeding the player a 720p signal gives a bit of VB so try 1080i instead, some prople have noticed this has helped.

I told him that I was thinking of sending it back and he told me that the unit I get to replace it may be worse and not to take the chance (maybe they're told to say this, I don't know). But he said it's inherient to the technology which is true. And since my PJ is pretty perfect in every other way, I'm going to try these suggestions and see if they help. Again, the VB on my PJ is subtle and pretty much goes away when I'm engrossed in the movie and don't look for it, it never really stood out bad anyway. And it's better after say 30 min of use.

Oh, and he also told me that VB can crop up at any point, either early or late in the PJ's life. Some people report that it goes away after some time.

Now, all this may be smoke and mirrors but I'll tray anything compared to sending this "almost perfect" unit back and getting something with a different or worse problem.

Hope this helps someone that is having VB issues. Please report back if anyone trys these things and if they helped.
Adding a quality power CONDITIONER helps with VB, too. And gives better black levels and richer colors.

pepar

01-06-06, 03:53 PM

Now my question...
Has anybody ever noticed a kind of screen door effect in certain image transitions? It seems to be mostly prevelant when watching HD [cable] TV. It's not all the time, and I can't figure out if it's my eyes playing tricks, or there is a real problem. It's not across the entire image, just certain parts. I have witnessed it while watching DVDs too, but not as frequently.

Other than that, the picture is fantastic with HD and DVDs. There are some times while watching hockey that is supposedly in HD, where the image looks out of focus, but when a commercial comes on it is much sharper -- but I'd assume that's the broadcast. I don't think I need a screen -- the contrasts are great, colors rich... BUT... would a screen hide that "screen door effect?"
Sounds like you need to lower your frame rate. A shot or two of tequila should do it.

:)

simpsonb

01-06-06, 03:53 PM

Adding a quality power CONDITIONER helps with VB, too. And gives better black levels and richer colors.

I already have a Panamax Maxlight contidioner installed. And the wierd thing is that I seemed to start to notice it when I installed it. I have since removed it and it's still there as it was before so I put it back. Maybe it was just the timing of when it manifested itself and I installed the conditioner. I tried other different power strips on the PJ too and it didn't make a difference. I also tried other video cables (SVideo) and no difference. I'm hoping the suggestions from Panasonic help. If not, I'm willing to live with it's very, very minor affects and maybe it'll go away in time.

pepar

01-06-06, 03:56 PM

I already have a Panamax Maxlight contidioner installed. And the wierd thing is that I seemed to start to notice it when I installed it. I have since removed it and it's still there as it was before so I put it back. Maybe it was just the timing of when it manifested itself and I installed the conditioner. I tried other different power strips on the PJ too and it didn't make a difference. I also tried other video cables (SVideo) and no difference. I'm hoping the suggestions from Panasonic help. If not, I'm willing to live with it's very, very minor affects and maybe it'll go away in time.
Not to sound too much like a snake oil salesman, but there are different quality levels in power conditioners.

simpsonb

01-06-06, 04:03 PM

Not to sound too much like a snake oil salesman, but there are different quality levels in power conditioners.

But VB wasn't there before I put in the conditioner so I don't think that's my issue. The panamax is a very good line of conditioners from what I've read. The power is very clean where I live and I have never had a problem with it before. I mainly got the conditioner for power surges anyway. I do get your point though.

jandawil

01-06-06, 04:04 PM

LOL...naw... He's a cool guy. He ordered it from Visual Apex and I hear their service is good. He's going to get a new unit.

I've also seen this happen when the units seem to mis synch - never really explored it. Be sure the PJ is turned on before the PC boots.

Though I vote for mis-convergence like others you might also look at the POSITION menu and selct AUTO to be sure the unit is 1:1 mapped since your boss is using VGA.

It did it with VGA from his laptop as well as component from his DVD so it's not the imput.

So he called Visual Apex to request a new PJ and they said they need to have a tech troubleshoot it before they can authorize a replacement. Than they said they don't have any techs today so he'll have to call back on Monday. So much for their service being good. Maybe that's typical, but I would expect better service on a $2000 purchase. I'll look for another vendor personally. Not impressed!!! If their tech can "tweak" that horrific picture into a good one though, I will be impressed.

pepar

01-06-06, 04:22 PM

But VB wasn't there before I put in the conditioner so I don't think that's my issue. The panamax is a very good line of conditioners from what I've read. The power is very clean where I live and I have never had a problem with it before. I mainly got the conditioner for power surges anyway. I do get your point though.
Sorry, I wasn't implying the Panamax caused the VB or even that it's not a good product, only that, perhaps, a "better" one would lessen or eliminate the VB. The VB on my Sony HS20 was almost entirely eliminated by adding a RGPC 400 MkII.

simpsonb

01-06-06, 04:26 PM

Sorry, I wasn't implying the Panamax caused the VB or even that it's not a good product, only that, perhaps, a "better" one would lessen or eliminate the VB. The VB on my Sony HS20 was almost entirely eliminated by adding a RGPC 400 MkII.

No, I didn't take it that way. it's a good suggestion. I still have the opportunity to return the Panamax to get a different one if I want. I don't want to pay more than $250 for one though.

Scott Gammans

01-06-06, 04:28 PM

Sadly, I must send my PT-AE900U back to the dealer... it's too dark from 20' away, even in a 100% light-controlled room. The brightness was already at the extreme end of the "acceptable" zone on projectorcentral.com's throw calculator when I had a 14.9' throw on a 2.0 gain 72" x 128" screen, but when I decided that I wanted both a lower gain screen and a projector position behind both rows of seats, it just couldn't shoot out the pixels bright enough. A shame... nice projector otherwise.

pepar

01-06-06, 04:31 PM

No, I didn't take it that way. it's a good suggestion. I still have the opportunity to return the Panamax to get a different one if I want. I don't want to pay more than $250 for one though.
Understood completely. The good snake oil tends to be multiples of $250. :)

tvted

01-06-06, 04:45 PM

I've seen something similar ands it’s not SDE from the panels. It occurs only with HD signals from my SA8300. I'm using HDMI and 1080i. There is some sort of a black grid but it’s on an angle so I see diamonds rather than normal SDE squares and the grid is significantly larger than a pixel. I only see it occasionally and briefly so I assume it is some sort of HD artifact. Never saw it with DVD.

Deinterlacing artifacts?

ted

pepar

01-06-06, 04:50 PM

Deinterlacing artifacts?

ted
Using a perfed screen? Moire?

simpsonb

01-06-06, 04:54 PM

Understood completely. The good snake oil tends to be multiples of $250. :)

This is the wrong forum but since we're talking about it, any recommendations on a good $300 or less conditioner/surge protector? I bought the Panamax just from reading the reviews, they do have better models thought, like the M4300-EX.

tvted

01-06-06, 05:03 PM

It did it with VGA from his laptop as well as component from his DVD so it's not the imput.

Though it does look like bad convergengce - can be checked with the grid pattern in the Service menu - I wasn't blaming the input, but the pj.

For analog sources (VGA) the pj's panels need to be in phase with the vidcards dotclock - this is what the AUTO POSITION does and should be done with all 900's being driven on the VGA input if you wish correct screen mapping.

ted

Troy

01-06-06, 05:05 PM

I've spent nearly 2 hours reading these posts, but I haven't seen any mention the "problem" I THINK I'm having!

My 900U is set up about 18' from the wall to which it projects on. I have a Denon 2106 receiver hooked up to a Comcast Digital HD DVR. I am projecting onto the wall, with nothing more than Duron white ceiling paint. By the way, it looks GREAT, without a screen (about 112" diagonal). My HD signal is coming over a 30' component cable and my DVD (Samsung HD950 DVD player) over HDMI. The first row of seats is about 17' from the 'screen.'

Now my question...
Has anybody ever noticed a kind of screen door effect in certain image transitions? It seems to be mostly prevelant when watching HD [cable] TV. It's not all the time, and I can't figure out if it's my eyes playing tricks, or there is a real problem. It's not across the entire image, just certain parts. I have witnessed it while watching DVDs too, but not as frequently.

Other than that, the picture is fantastic with HD and DVDs. There are some times while watching hockey that is supposedly in HD, where the image looks out of focus, but when a commercial comes on it is much sharper -- but I'd assume that's the broadcast. I don't think I need a screen -- the contrasts are great, colors rich... BUT... would a screen hide that "screen door effect?"

Thanks!

I have seen something similar and it is hard to describe. I read about it a while back and of course didn't really notice it until someone mentioned it on the forum. If I run across it again I will let you know but I think it would be in one of the major 900 threads since thats about all I have been reading, maybe in a review.

Now I seem to be looking for everything. The ringing is what bothers me the most-very obvious. No problem with VB but now they say it can pop up later. When will it stop. I had fewer problems with my old pj and I expected things to have improved. I can't believe we have to jump through hoops just to watch a movie. All this stuff about starting the pj 1/2 hour before watching it and then turning off the main power after it has cooled down-what a joke. If I could send this pj back I would. I have a 61" Sony LCD Monitor and the picture is great, no ghosts or VB or other voodo. Just sit down, watch what you want and then turn it off and go on about your life.

tvted

01-06-06, 05:14 PM

I apologize for the bandwidth, but for those of you who wish help setting SHARPNESS (or at least checking), the following is from the Calibration forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=585527

AVIA Calibration Tip #3 - Sharpness Pattern

NTSC video carries most of its resolution in the luminance portion of the signal. Onto this is overlaid lower resolution color information to yield the final picture. By doing this, the designers of the NTSC system were able to provide an image which gave much of the perceived effect of having high resolution in both color and luminance but in a smaller amount of bandwidth.

Television displays provide a sharpness or peaking control whose behavior is much akin to the treble control of an audio receiver. The control should be used to compensate for the attenuation of high frequency video information that blurs images horizontally. Unfortunately, this control is often misused or not designed in a way that accomplishes this goal. Users often keep sharpness set too high and suffer a picture that appears sharper to the naïve eye, but is actually filled with extraneous image artifacts. Sharpness is perhaps the most difficult control to teach people to set properly.

There are often recommendations to simply turn sharpness all the way down, but that can be excessive. It's best to actually use a test pattern which points out how the sharpness control is altering the image. Then you can rationally determine optimum setting on your display. AVIA provides a dedicated Sharpness pattern which combines several tests of parameters important in determining optimal sharpness setting.

1. A horizontal frequency sweep occupies the top of AVIA's sharpness pattern. This is a constant amplitude sweep that goes from low video frequency to high video frequency. If the video bandwidth of your display is lower in a portion of the video bandwidth, then that section of the sweep appears darker. Ideally, the brightness of the sweep is constant throughout its range. As you adjust sharpness up and down, look to see if any portion of the sweep goes up and down in brightness. That is the set of video frequencies the sharpness control of your display affects. If your display's sharpness control is well designed, all you need do is adjust to make the sweep as evenly bright as possible.

2. Some people find it difficult to compare different sections of a sweep because the gradation of brightness is continuous from one section to another. The frequency bursts at the bottom of the chart provide discrete patches of video frequencies that can be compared. You'll probably find that the rightmost patch is slightly darker than the rest of the patches even on the best of displays. Just try to equalize the other patches.

3. There are black vertical lines, diagonal lines, and a circle in the center of the AVIA sharpness pattern. These are needed because many sharpness controls not only alter frequency response but add ringing artifacts. Ringing is overshoot and undershoot of the video signal at abrupt luminance transitions. You see this as false outlines next to the actual black lines. If setting sharpness at the point which equalizes video bandwidth also yields visible ringing, you should decrease sharpness to the point at which the false outlining is just barely visible. Otherwise, you will be adding artifacts rather sharpening actual image detail.

4. There are also vertical lines set against black and white backgrounds. These are also used to look for ringing, but because the luminance transitions are larger than going from a gray background to black, these serve as especially severe tests for ringing. These are primarily for testing display circuit design quality rather than for actually setting the sharpness control, because these are usually too severe a test for consumer grade displays. Setting sharpness low enough to avoid all outlining of black/white transitions will often yield an excessively blurred image on consumer grade displays.

5. A vertical frequency sweep occupies the left side of the pattern. This is used in conjunction with the horizontal lines of the pattern to set vertical aperture (vertical sharpness) of video processors which have this control. As with the usual sharpness control, adjust to equalize video bandwidth and avoid false outlining.

Once you have correctly set sharpness, it is very tempting to return to your previous excessively high setting. Don't. Instead, view the picture several days at the new, less artifact inducing setting. You will find that the old overly high setting yields an unnatural picture.

Properly adjusting the sharpness control is only part of getting maximal image detail from your display. Keeping white level below the point of blooming and controlling room lighting should also be done. Once all these are done, you might wish to measure your display's resolution using resolution patterns which I'll cover in another AVIA Calibration Tip.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guy Kuo
Director - Imaging Science Foundation Research Lab
Video Test Design - Ovation Multimedia / Home of OpticONE Colorimeter, AVIA and Avia PRO

Again I apologize for the screen space - just thought some might not be aware of this thread. Plus it boosts my post count. :p

ted

federiko

01-06-06, 05:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by movieumovieme
I've spent nearly 2 hours reading these posts, but I haven't seen any mention the "problem" I THINK I'm having!

My 900U is set up about 18' from the wall to which it projects on. I have a Denon 2106 receiver hooked up to a Comcast Digital HD DVR. I am projecting onto the wall, with nothing more than Duron white ceiling paint. By the way, it looks GREAT, without a screen (about 112" diagonal). My HD signal is coming over a 30' component cable and my DVD (Samsung HD950 DVD player) over HDMI. The first row of seats is about 17' from the 'screen.'

Now my question...
Has anybody ever noticed a kind of screen door effect in certain image transitions? It seems to be mostly prevelant when watching HD [cable] TV. It's not all the time, and I can't figure out if it's my eyes playing tricks, or there is a real problem. It's not across the entire image, just certain parts. I have witnessed it while watching DVDs too, but not as frequently.

Other than that, the picture is fantastic with HD and DVDs. There are some times while watching hockey that is supposedly in HD, where the image looks out of focus, but when a commercial comes on it is much sharper -- but I'd assume that's the broadcast. I don't think I need a screen -- the contrasts are great, colors rich... BUT... would a screen hide that "screen door effect?"

Thanks!

I have just received the Panny900 projector which I have paired with an OPPO DVD. The image is superb. The only problem I´ve encounter is that during some DVD previews, specially on bright images (before the actual movie starts) and sometimes on the yellow subtitles, there seems to be some horizontal black lines in between, which disappear if I stop the DVD. Does anyone know what that could be?
Thanks

It is very similar to what you are describing with regards to a screen door effect in some images, during very short periods of time. In my case it happens more with the DVD´s than with HDTV, but sometimes I can see it also in the latter.

pepar

01-06-06, 06:11 PM

This is the wrong forum but since we're talking about it, any recommendations on a good $300 or less conditioner/surge protector?
You're right. You've got a PM.

tvted

01-06-06, 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by movieumovieme
It is very similar to what you are describing with regards to a screen door effect in some images, during very short periods of time. In my case it happens more with the DVD´s than with HDTV, but sometimes I can see it also in the latter.

Is this primarily with video or film source?
You could try playing with the CINEMA REALITY setting.

This still sounds like deinterlacing artifacts but you might try doing a search for "peekaboo scanlines" in the various 700 threads.

ted

thaxx

01-06-06, 07:08 PM

Sounds like refresh rate artifacts to me.

tvted

01-06-06, 08:11 PM

Sounds like refresh rate artifacts to me.

Can you explain? (Not refresh - why you think this is causing the artifact)

ted

eliocon

01-06-06, 08:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by movieumovieme
I've spent nearly 2 hours reading these posts, but I haven't seen any mention the "problem" I THINK I'm having!

My 900U is set up about 18' from the wall to which it projects on. I have a Denon 2106 receiver hooked up to a Comcast Digital HD DVR. I am projecting onto the wall, with nothing more than Duron white ceiling paint. By the way, it looks GREAT, without a screen (about 112" diagonal). My HD signal is coming over a 30' component cable and my DVD (Samsung HD950 DVD player) over HDMI. The first row of seats is about 17' from the 'screen.'

Now my question...
Has anybody ever noticed a kind of screen door effect in certain image transitions? It seems to be mostly prevelant when watching HD [cable] TV. It's not all the time, and I can't figure out if it's my eyes playing tricks, or there is a real problem. It's not across the entire image, just certain parts. I have witnessed it while watching DVDs too, but not as frequently.

Other than that, the picture is fantastic with HD and DVDs. There are some times while watching hockey that is supposedly in HD, where the image looks out of focus, but when a commercial comes on it is much sharper -- but I'd assume that's the broadcast. I don't think I need a screen -- the contrasts are great, colors rich... BUT... would a screen hide that "screen door effect?"

Thanks!

It is very similar to what you are describing with regards to a screen door effect in some images, during very short periods of time. In my case it happens more with the DVD´s than with HDTV, but sometimes I can see it also in the latter.
It just sounds like digital drop out. It sometimes happens on DVDs and happens more often on Digital Cable/Satellite. Does it just look like a bunch of blocks that kinda pop in and out for a sec? It's coming from the source. Not the projector.

altec604

01-06-06, 08:32 PM

This is my first post. Just received my 900 and so far I have not seen any VB'ing or stuck pixels or convergence issues. I've spent hours reading and re-reading all of the threads to a point to where I was praying I was not going to receive a dud. All is not well with the unit I have. I'm getting a horizontal band at the top and the bottom of the image about 3/8" from the edge of the image. Each band seems to be one pixel in width. Has anyone seen this before? It shows up on two different DVD players. I'm using the component inputs and I'll try the composite input next. Is the unit defective?

mtnsean

01-06-06, 08:57 PM

It just sounds like digital drop out. It sometimes happens on DVDs and happens more often on Digital Cable/Satellite. Does it just look like a bunch of blocks that kinda pop in and out for a sec? It's coming from the source. Not the projector.

I can't speak for the OP, but what he was describing sounds a lot like what I posted about here a while back:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6747995&&#post6747995

I don't think it's blocks that pop in and out - it's scan lines the show up very briefly during a quick camera transition, channel change, etc. "peekaboo scan lines" sounds like a better description (first time I hear that phrase - I'll have to poke around the Panny 700 threads for more info). I found these are greatly reduced if not eliminated by 1) turning sharpness down or 2) feeding a progressive signal or 3) turning Cinema Reality off.

-Sean

tvted

01-06-06, 10:53 PM

- it's scan lines the show up very briefly during a quick camera transition, channel change, etc. "peekaboo scan lines" sounds like a better description (first time I hear that phrase - I'll have to poke around the Panny 700 threads for more info). I found these are greatly reduced if not eliminated by 1) turning sharpness down or 2) feeding a progressive signal or 3) turning Cinema Reality off.

-Sean

As I suggested in my note above.
Peekaboo has returned to my 700 after hiding out in the summer (it was ther last winter). Now that my cellar cinema (insulated but heated locally hence not always on) has dropped about 5 degrees C they have returned. Odd because it would seem this is scaler related - but I'm sure there is a thermal component to peekaboo.

ted

SeattleMatt

01-07-06, 04:05 AM

simpsonb

01-07-06, 06:41 AM

vtgt

01-07-06, 08:30 AM

I am a newbie and have a question about HDMI. HDMI carries both sound and image as I know but 900 doesn't care much about sound. What should I do with sound? If I run a HDMI-HDMI connection between my DVD player and 900, do I need to run other optical cable for sound between DVD player and the receiver? Thanks.

eliocon

01-07-06, 09:10 AM

I can't speak for the OP, but what he was describing sounds a lot like what I posted about here a while back:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6747995&&#post6747995

I don't think it's blocks that pop in and out - it's scan lines the show up very briefly during a quick camera transition, channel change, etc. "peekaboo scan lines" sounds like a better description (first time I hear that phrase - I'll have to poke around the Panny 700 threads for more info). I found these are greatly reduced if not eliminated by 1) turning sharpness down or 2) feeding a progressive signal or 3) turning Cinema Reality off.

-Sean
If it's the scan line thing then, yes, turning Cinema Reality off works. I had a similar issue with certain fast moving scenes with a 1080i signal.

thaxx

01-07-06, 09:50 AM

Can you explain? (Not refresh - why you think this is causing the artifact)

ted
Those if you with a AE500 or lower and a AE900 try this.....
Walk up to your screen ( while projecting video) and put your hand up, with your fingers spread apart.
Now, move it back and forth (fast) horizontally.
On my AE 500 I can reproduce pixelation around the outline of my shadow of my fingers.
On the AE 900, nothing but smooth outline around the fingers.
I don't know what this means, but found it interesting.

Don't ask me what possessed me to try this, because I have no idea :rolleyes:

awtryau89

01-07-06, 12:11 PM

A little late to the game here but I am trying out a AE900. Similar to what Jason is doing, I will be calibrating it today using Colorfacts and the 81EF filter. I will post some readings as soon as I can get them. First impressions though. A little background on my previous PJs. Mosy recently I had a JVC HX-1 that was calibrated by William Phelps. It was an outstanding machine but lacked in contrast. My move was from a Sony HS-51 which I really tweaked and like alot but the SDE just killed me. The Panny uncalibrated really wowed me. I was expecting much less than I got here. I was prepared to be disappointed but I wasn't. The image is fantastic and LCD has come a long way even from last year. Colors are good right out of the box. The blacks are very good comparing it to my JVC. I did notice a good bit more video noise on dark scenes but this seemed to be dependant on the DVD or show I was watching. I was suprised because I did not see any of these artifacts in good DVD transfers, such as CoR or Superbit Underworld but I saw them on others. I also saw them on some HD shows like Surface but not on CSI. The best way to describe it was graininess or moire in dark areas of the pic. One thing I did not notice was VBE. I tried a 700 last year and quickly sold it due to this problem and I could not recommend it to my customers. I tested this unit on all my VBE torture test and cannot find a hint of it. I am very encouraged by this. Overall I can echo most of what everyone is saying about this unit. It is a great PJ for the money. I could easily live with it for a long while although I will be selling it after a short demo here. I just want to try it out as I need to be able to have a reference so I can confidently sell it to my customers. As soon as I can get it calibrated I will post my findings.

tvted

01-07-06, 01:29 PM

Those if you with a AE500 or lower and a AE900 try this.....
Walk up to your screen ( while projecting video) and put your hand up, with your fingers spread apart.
Now, move it back and forth (fast) horizontally.
On my AE 500 I can reproduce pixelation around the outline of my shadow of my fingers.
On the AE 900, nothing but smooth outline around the fingers.
I don't know what this means, but found it interesting.

Don't ask me what possessed me to try this, because I have no idea :rolleyes:

But that doesn't explain "refresh" as the cause - refresh is at panel rate - nomnally 60 hz. I'm not denying you see what you see but I don't think display timing explains it. It would be the same for all those panels. All input to the unit are converted to the panel rate.

btw. Why did you do this? :D

ted

tvted

01-07-06, 01:32 PM

If it's the scan line thing then, yes, turning Cinema Reality off works. I had a similar issue with certain fast moving scenes with a 1080i signal.

Cinema Reality is 3:2 pulldown and should only be used with Film source.

ted

tvted

01-07-06, 01:42 PM

LLeecan

01-07-06, 02:54 PM

Hello to everyone,

I have written a short review of AE900 along with some experiences accompanied with a small FAQ. I explain why I found composite input problematic and how I did eventually get my projector aligned with my screen. I may post my settings to tweak thread when I finally get them in order.

http://iki.fi/lassial/articles/audio_video/Panasonic_AE900

paste the line above to your browser, no need add anything

Please provide comments here or to my email.

muzz

01-07-06, 03:33 PM

If it's inherint to the technology, then how come the Z4 doesn't have this issue ( that I am aware of)?
How come a few posts up a DIFFERENT( I'm ASSUMING it's a different dealer because of the complete opposite info given) dealer said it shouldn't be there at all in a proper unit?
I find it hard to believe some of these guys, although thats pretty natural for me considering I grew up in the city. :D

Well, I called Panasonic about the VBE and although mine is very slight, he recommended a few things that have been shown to almost eliminate VBE in most cases.

#1 Turn OFF the master power switch between uses, cutting the power completely from the unit. He couldn't say why this works but form the calls they've been getting, this seems to almost eliminate it or drastically reduce it. This he said is the most effective method of eliminating VBE and is recommended by Panasonic.

!!!!NOTE: Be sure to allow the fan to cool the bulb before cutting the power, so turn it off with the remote then after the fan has stopped, then turn off the master power switch.

#2 Turn the PJ on and WAIT 5 MIN until feeding it a signal, this will allow the panels to warm up before a signal hits them. I don't know what this does but he said it has helped other people.

#3 Some people have noticed that feeding the player a 720p signal gives a bit of VB so try 1080i instead, some prople have noticed this has helped.

I told him that I was thinking of sending it back and he told me that the unit I get to replace it may be worse and not to take the chance (maybe they're told to say this, I don't know). But he said it's inherient to the technology which is true. And since my PJ is pretty perfect in every other way, I'm going to try these suggestions and see if they help. Again, the VB on my PJ is subtle and pretty much goes away when I'm engrossed in the movie and don't look for it, it never really stood out bad anyway. And it's better after say 30 min of use.

Oh, and he also told me that VB can crop up at any point, either early or late in the PJ's life. Some people report that it goes away after some time.

Now, all this may be smoke and mirrors but I'll tray anything compared to sending this "almost perfect" unit back and getting something with a different or worse problem.

Hope this helps someone that is having VB issues. Please report back if anyone trys these things and if they helped.

altec604

01-07-06, 04:00 PM

That is normal, it's part of the overscan setting. Usually if you have a screen with a black border you can adjust the picture so that the image washes onto the border and you don't see the lines.

Thanks!

Troy

01-07-06, 04:43 PM

I just bought an LCD 1080p TV and have decided that it is not for me, I'm going to take close to the same money and buy a projector instead. I have been looking at the AE900, the Z4 and the Z3. I actually would really like to know what the major differences are between the Z3, Z4 and AE900 as far as quality. I think I pretty much understand that the AE900 has better overall picture quality. Is the Z4/AE900 worth the extra $600?

Do all of these projectors support DVI ?

Also I would like to know if it is crazy for me to want to put the projector on a shelf in my coffe table, projecting onto a 40" screen 4' away and 8" above the top of the lens. It looks like the Z4 has more options as far as lens shift, but if I can do it, I would prefer to go with the "reported" better image quality of the AE900.

There are reviews comparing both pjs and a search on the forum or internet should turn up something. Basically, from what I have read, the z4 has screen door (can't sit as close to the screen) but is more sharp and color can be good but needs a little work. Z4 has more controls to tweak and isn't as good with standard definition signals like regular cable TV. AE900 has little to no screendoor so you can sit closer, is not quite as detailed and has better color right out of the box. Less tweakability but does better with standard definition signals so more flexible. AE900 has DVI and I would assume Z4 does too. I am having problems with my AE900 (ringing and grainy picture) so if I had to do it over again I would wait or go a different direction although others seem to be very happy with their AE900. Luck of the draw I guess but if you get a dud send it back before its too late and before you write on or cut anything like for a warranty or a rebate. Some companies will allow you up to 7 days with no more than 4 hours on the bulb.

artimp

01-07-06, 09:53 PM

first off let me say I am a newbie, however, I have been on these threads till my eyes need glasses. Took it out of the box, took about a half hour looking over the manual and hooked it up. Watched it on the worst possible scenario- newly done drywall with knockdown tecture - hasn't even been painted so just that off white color and pebbly surface. OLD Samsung DVD player that doesn't have a pause button let alone DVI-HDMI output. Used component. played thru a 10 year old receiver. GREAT...no VB (believe me how could I not check after reading about a billion posts. Watched LOTR and Spiderman. Good color out of the box and no ghosting. AND FINALLY basically silent. I waited for the tinkling sound they explained in manual that I would hear and the other sound they said I should hear but never did which made me at first think it wasn't working. My family sat around it about 3 to 4 foot from it and the only time we heard it was when we first turned it on we heard the whirring of the fan and when we turned it off we heard the fan cooling. Surprisingly we really liked cinema 2- but again I haven't calibrated it at all. All in all, I can only believe the viewing experience will get much better (just ordered the denon 3806 and about to order the Oppo unless someone has a better suggestion) I am very pleased and especially happy that for the money I spent after tossing and turning nights over it , I think it was a great buy. One question if anyone knows-- should I have ordered the new Denon 2807?? not sure of number (the new one at the show that changes analog signal to 480?? Thanks for everyones input--off to the tweak thread I go.

DAMAC

01-08-06, 12:05 AM

boykster

01-08-06, 12:22 AM

DAMAC,

I can't say for sure that you'll be "blown away" by the diference, but my AE900, from ~12', on a 92" screen looks SPECTACULAR for HD sources. DVD's look great too, but the real WOW factor is on HDTV.

Its going to be great watching the NFL playoffs in HD, when they start "for real" next week (no wildcards for me)

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

simplton

01-08-06, 09:52 AM

Hello All,
This is my 1st post to this forum. I recently purchased the 900U and I'm looking for a screen recommendation. I am currently using a 92" DIY screen made with BOC. So far the results seem OK. I have complete control over room lighting but I have an off white tile ceiling that can't be painted and light colored carpet so I think I'm getting reflections off of both of those that are killing my on screen blacks somewhat. I'm looking for something that will tame the reflections and deepen my blacks even further.

My dealer is recommending DaLite Hi Contrast Cinema Vision. I was thinking that Hi Contrast DaMat might be better. Any thoughts? I'm guessing that I need a screen that has a gain lower than 1. Am I on track here?

As a side note I've been reading a LOT about the 900U and VB so I thought I'd share my experience with you: There was something seriously wrong with the 1st unit I received. It had poor overall PQ, the upper left and lower right corners had a blue haze/fog, and it had some real bad VB. Thankfully the 2nd unit seems just fine. Pretty noticeable VB upon initial power up, but it pretty much disappears after the unit warms up.

Thanks very much for any responses!

Simp

pepar

01-08-06, 09:55 AM

I am about to pull the trigger on an AE900. I currently have an IF 4805 with a 92" screen, viewing from 12ft. Will the AE900 just blow away the 4805? I watch alot of HDTV OTA and on E*. I know the 4805 is 480p and the AE900 is 720p, and that is going to make a big difference on HD viewing. But I also watch alot of DVDs and some standard TV. I guess I am wondering how the AE900 will compare in every category other than resolution to the 4805, like color, brightness, contrast, etc. I just want to make sure it will be worth the difference in cost. Thanks for the input!
The jump from a 480 line projector to a 720 line projector will make a big difference in watching DVDs. If you have a good upscaling player, the difference will be even BIGGER. But you cannot imagine the difference you'l see with true hi-def material with the projector upgrade you mentioned, especially live sporting events. The word "stunning" comes to mind.

DAMAC

01-08-06, 11:33 AM

The jump from a 480 line projector to a 720 line projector will make a big difference in watching DVDs. If you have a good upscaling player, the difference will be even BIGGER. But you cannot imagine the difference you'l see with true hi-def material with the projector upgrade you mentioned, especially live sporting events. The word "stunning" comes to mind.

I'm hoping that is the case. I have been to Ovation and seen a Sony HS51. I remember being really impressed, but at that time I hadn't really seen a PJ in action at all and had nothing to compare it to.

I have a HTPC with ZP and ffdshow, but I haven't been terribly impressed with alot of tweaking from what my 4805 is showing. The picture is definately better than just using PowerDVD, but it isn't tremendously better. I am hoping that a 720p PJ will show the difference more (like you indicated).

Thanks for the input! I will being buying the ae900u sometime this month as I am selling a few things (including my 4805) to fund the purchase of this new PJ. My goal is to have it in time for the Superbowl!!!

SeattleMatt

01-08-06, 01:02 PM

JimmyDaves

01-08-06, 02:18 PM

boykster

01-08-06, 02:48 PM

Did you get your AE900 locally?

No, I ended up buying it over the internet. One of the forum sponsors, Visual Apex does sell them for a nice price, and they are "local" but I dont' believe they have an actual showrool ala magnolia AV, etc. They are a pleasure to work with however...I bought a plasma from them a few years ago...

Rich

SeattleMatt

01-08-06, 03:38 PM

No, I ended up buying it over the internet. One of the forum sponsors, Visual Apex does sell them for a nice price, and they are "local" but I dont' believe they have an actual showrool ala magnolia AV, etc. They are a pleasure to work with however...I bought a plasma from them a few years ago...

Rich

Actually Visual Apex just happen to be the vendor I was looking at. I didn't know that they were in Bainbridge though. That actually really sucks, because from the looks of it I would have to pay WA sales tax AND shipping. Guess I'll have to find another vendor ...sad.

Gadget_girl

01-08-06, 04:55 PM

Simplton, I've had my AE900 for very nearly two months now. I made a DIY screen, but I also had samples from Da-lite and Goo Systems. The samples are 2' x 2' or so. Of the seven samples I have, I would say that the Da-lite Da-mat is the one I like the best. I'm really happy with my painted screen though, and for the price, I didn't think that the Da-mat was that much better. I didn't like the High contrast cinema vision at all. Call or e-mail Da-lite. They will send you samples free of charge and then you can pick which screen material you like the best.

tvted

01-08-06, 05:11 PM

Please don't flame me but I recall someone mentioning a good HDMI cable that made a difference in the picture quality. I'm using the the HDMI cable that came with my inexpensive Toshiba DVD player. I've gone over all the posts again and I can't seem to find that post? Can anyone direct me?

Thanks. Jimmy

Snake Oil.
As long as your picture doesn't exhibit "sparkles" then the problem is source and or display calibration. In the case of DVD players its a digital interconnect - any issues are not with the cable if you can see an image.

If your player is not upscaling you would be better off putting your funds into a good player and if it is a reasonable player purchase AVIA and calibrate your display.

ted

bubbawilly

01-08-06, 06:25 PM

The jump from a 480 line projector to a 720 line projector will make a big difference in watching DVDs. If you have a good upscaling player, the difference will be even BIGGER. But you cannot imagine the difference you'l see with true hi-def material with the projector upgrade you mentioned, especially live sporting events. The word "stunning" comes to mind.

DVD's are encoded at 480 lines, so 'upsampling' them can't add any more resolution.

I had a lowly Panasonic PT-L300U prior to the 900. Let me tell you, it was no slouch. If the improvement is 10% I'd be surprised, so to use the word "stunning" with regard to any improvement one will see over a solid 480P projector may be a bit much.

As so many unbiased reports have stated, the 900 is evolutionary, not revolutionary. LCD projectors like the Panny 300 and Sanyo Z1 were revolutionary.

pepar

01-08-06, 07:10 PM

DVD's are encoded at 480 lines, so 'upsampling' them can't add any more resolution.

I had a lowly Panasonic PT-L300U prior to the 900. Let me tell you, it was no slouch. If the improvement is 10% I'd be surprised, so to use the word "stunning" with regard to any improvement one will see over a solid 480P projector may be a bit much.

As so many unbiased reports have stated, the 900 is evolutionary, not revolutionary. LCD projectors like the Panny 300 and Sanyo Z1 were revolutionary.
I believe the context was that the poster was trying to imagine what improvement he'd see with a 720 display over a 480 display. While testing and measurement would produce numbers, it still comes down to "how does it look?" So, subjectively, I would still say that "properly" upscaled DVD will will look better with a 720 display than on a solid 480 display, and 720p source on a 720 display will look a LOT better than a DVD of the exact same material on a 480 display. Stunningly better. Subjectively. In my humble opinion . . .

federiko

01-08-06, 07:32 PM

As I suggested in my note above.
Peekaboo has returned to my 700 after hiding out in the summer (it was ther last winter). Now that my cellar cinema (insulated but heated locally hence not always on) has dropped about 5 degrees C they have returned. Odd because it would seem this is scaler related - but I'm sure there is a thermal component to peekaboo.

ted

Ted, it happens with movies (normally during fast transitions in the white areas of the pictures or in the subtitles), and I am using an OPPO in the 720p mode. However, I can´t say that it happens everytime. I will try to rise the room temperature a little to see if this problem dissapears. In any ohter aspect I think that the panny900 is an incredible projector (my third one).
Thanks for the piece of advise.
Federico

vtgt

01-08-06, 10:03 PM

What is the good ceiling mount for 900? Thanks.

tvted

01-08-06, 10:12 PM

Ted, it happens with movies (normally during fast transitions in the white areas of the pictures or in the subtitles), and I am using an OPPO in the 720p mode. However, I can´t say that it happens everytime. I will try to rise the room temperature a little to see if this problem dissapears. In any ohter aspect I think that the panny900 is an incredible projector (my third one).
Thanks for the piece of advise.
Federico

Not sure its *good* advice - temp stability I would think would be the most important - my basement bijou, like its tenant, is unstable in winter.
Good source will also not exhibit as many artifacts.
Mind altering substances help too. ;)

ted

DodgeViper

01-08-06, 11:23 PM

With this thread becoming enormously large and information regarding the AE-900 scattered though out many pages it’s has gotten tough to draw an opinion. I thought it may be of some help for those interested how this projector rates from those who own the projector. I too am looking for a projector for my future theater.

I have started a poll to rate the pros & cons of the AE-900. Please take a minute and rate your experience from 1 to 10. Giving the projector a 1 is the lowest score you can give, while giving the projector a 10 is the highest you can give. Please take a minute and post the score you gave and why the projector received this score.

Please use the link below to post your reply...

RATE YOUR AE-900 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=628360)

Joshz

01-09-06, 12:26 AM

Ted or anyone,

I've often seen this mention of "sparkles". Anyone got links to pictures with "sparkles" so that I can check my own HDMI connection? :o

Many thanks,
Josh

tvted

01-09-06, 01:12 AM

Ted or anyone,

I've often seen this mention of "sparkles". Anyone got links to pictures with "sparkles" so that I can check my own HDMI connection? :o

Many thanks,
Josh

They are just as the word says - little sparkles randomly throughout the image. If you had em you would notice - like pixelation but not in blocks. Random noise almost. It happens with long cable runs. Handshake is there - that is why you get an image - but perhaps there is a transmission level issue.

I've had it on PC reboots.

ted

Joshz

01-09-06, 01:30 AM

They are just as the word says - little sparkles randomly throughout the image. If you had em you would notice - like pixelation but not in blocks. Random noise almost. It happens with long cable runs. Handshake is there - that is why you get an image - but perhaps there is a transmission level issue.

I've had it on PC reboots.

ted

Ted,

The long cable run part is what has me worried. My HDMI cable run is approx. 40 feet due to the layout and design of my room. :(

I have seen some noise on some of the lower PQ dvd. They tend to be even across the screen. But I always thought it was the DVD's PQ (especially single disc versions) issue. This was because the noise was much less obvious on my 2 disc DVD movies.

I guess the only way to tell if I have a sparkles problem at all now is to screen some HD material and look for noise? Oh wait... did you say random? So sparkles aren't even across the screen like lower PQ dvds which suffer from compression?

Many thanks.
Josh

JaserLet

01-09-06, 05:16 AM

How does the Infocus 4805 compare to the Panasonic AE900 in terms of brightness and standard-definition quality?

I like what I've read about both projectors and as much as I would like to get the 900, I would probably be better off with a brighter projector to combat light leaking in from the other room, and chances are I'll just end up spending most of my time watching the standard definition cable channels anyway. Still, it would be nice to have that extra resolution for the times when I do watch the HD channels.

So, for those that know, how does the 900 compare to the 4805 in terms of brightness and picture quality of standard-definition video (ie, svideo digital cable or component DVD).

manufanatic

01-09-06, 08:14 AM

pepar

01-09-06, 08:21 AM

Mind altering substances help too. ;)

When I sold stereo gear in the early 70's I thought it was only a matter of time before manufacturer's included some with every component. :D

pepar

01-09-06, 08:30 AM

Rebate issues: Dont know if any of you have received your rebate but I am having issues. I called Panasonic on friday because it had just reached the 8 week point for me. They have me in the systemas of the 14th of November but she asked if i had recieved a letter from them. Letter? Im looking for my rebate and the blockbuster card I exclaimed.

She said that my UPC code didnt match so it was kicked back. Interestingly i provided the original UPC to them. The Rebate person said that the number is manually put in and it was probably fat fingered.

Of course its probably just an honest mistake but I have my doubts. I read my serial number over the phone to her and hopefully this will fix the problem.

I still havent received any letter from them.

Anyone got the rebate yet?
Manufacturers base their programs on the fact that many rebates go unclaimed, and that many will have some sort of simple mistake and are immediately - and quietly - dis-qualified. And some programs are simply mis-managed; you know they are all "out-sourced" don't you? If a rebate offer was ever successfully claimed by every purchaser, the next offer would be much smaller.

The glow and excitement of several hundred dollars off fades quickly and is replaced by the hassle of actually getting your money. Many people simply give up out of frustration.

scotty144

01-09-06, 09:07 AM

madd for dts es

01-09-06, 09:16 AM

pepar

01-09-06, 09:22 AM

Does anybody know of any vendors who open each projector and check the basics including, obviously, VB and convergence? For that, I would gladly forego the discounts.

Sailor Bill

01-09-06, 09:56 AM

Pepar,
I purchased from Projector Solutions and asked them to open and check the projector. That said, they agreed to do it, it seemed that it was several days before they shipped and the box looked like it was opened. I put it this way because I am just hooked up with an S video cable and Dish SD satellite and have not noticed any aberrations but who knows what may be there when I get some HD source and component cables hooked up. I would have been a little happier if they had put a note in saying that it was inspected and nothing found, or if any of the settings had been tweaked. So far I am very happy with the projector since some programs are great even in SD. (There is a wide variation in this)

pepar

01-09-06, 11:47 AM

boykster

01-09-06, 12:00 PM

Actually Visual Apex just happen to be the vendor I was looking at. I didn't know that they were in Bainbridge though. That actually really sucks, because from the looks of it I would have to pay WA sales tax AND shipping. Guess I'll have to find another vendor ...sad.

Yeah, its a double edged sword buying local...you get to pay sales tax AND shipping. I believe that it is possible to bypass shipping and pick up local from VA...I did that when I purchased my plasma from them. I picked the plasma up from their shipper, Danza, down by SeaTac. It was pretty painless, and saved me a $100 or so. You might give them a call and see if they offer local pickup for pj's.

Rich

tvted

01-09-06, 12:21 PM

Ted,

The long cable run part is what has me worried. My HDMI cable run is approx. 40 feet due to the layout and design of my room. :(

I have seen some noise on some of the lower PQ dvd. They tend to be even across the screen. But I always thought it was the DVD's PQ (especially single disc versions) issue. This was because the noise was much less obvious on my 2 disc DVD movies.

I guess the only way to tell if I have a sparkles problem at all now is to screen some HD material and look for noise? Oh wait... did you say random? So sparkles aren't even across the screen like lower PQ dvds which suffer from compression?

Many thanks.
Josh

I might have made a mistake in comparing it to noise visually. Sparkles are not uniform and are small points of light - not clusters like say Macroblocking or pixelation. Ever rubbed your eyes and seen little dots of light afterwards? Its more like that.

A shorter cable would be a test. If you've a reasonably powerful PC, try some of the .WMV files.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/HDVideo.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx
The theatrical features might require DRM handshake with MS - most of the IMAX clips don't.

These clips are fun and at the very least will give you a clear idea of what next gen DVD will look like and allow you to show off your PJ. I don't have a Hi-Def TV source hooked to my 700 so I love to break these out when people claim they are seeing things that I know is source related - "oh its too soft" - "I see all that interference on the screen." I find many are sceptical of pj's as there prime experience is watching bad source in a bar. (not that there is anything wrong with that) I confess to being one of those for the longest time. Plus I hate video, though my means of paying the mortgage might belie that.

I think you already have the answer as your thoughts suggest - most noise-like artifacts really are source based.

ted

tvted

01-09-06, 12:26 PM

Does anybody know of any vendors who open each projector and check the basics including, obviously, VB and convergence? For that, I would gladly forego the discounts.

Trusting my besotted memory has always been a mistake, but I think (qualified) that Projector People (forum sponsor) will do this.

ted

tvted

01-09-06, 12:33 PM

Interesting Focusing issue. I have always used the projector's OSD to dial in my focus but strangely enough I have discovered an issue. I use an HTPC and when I bring up a menu in Zoomplayer it looks slightly out of focus...I check with my OSD on the 900 and it appears in focus...So I re-focus with the HTPC menu and of course my 900's OSD is slightly out of focus then....Strange!!!

I do much the same - is the ZP text in a different area of the screen? Lenses at this price level are unlikely to be uniform across the field - mine certainly isn't. I balance between both sides of my desktop. One side actually has a smaller focus range than the other. Pj lenses at this price point are pretty simple compared to SLR.

ted

1st Cav

01-09-06, 05:03 PM

Quick question, will the zoom function work while using an HDMI connection? I ask because i'll be using a 2.35:1 screen without an anamorphic lens and will utilize the "zoom" function to fill my screen. Now that i'm in the process of searching for a good dvd player, i'd like to know which connection I can or can not use to perform the zoom. Something in the back of my mind tells me that it's not necessarily the connection (HDMI or component) but the format 480p, 720p, etc that plays a part on whether or not the zoom function will work. Sorry for the rambling, any help you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated.

~1st Cav

JohnnyB39

01-09-06, 05:07 PM

Hey all
Just made the leap into front projection :D and wanted to say Hi
I'm sure I 'll have many questions for you all soon ....

I purchased a Panasonic AE900u
Elite Screens R120H 59" X 104" (120" Diagonal) HDTV Fixed Frame Screen

I'm very excited... can't wait to receive it This is better then sex ! :)

nicely

01-09-06, 05:25 PM

Hi all, I searched this thread for anyone who might be having a similar problem and I didn't find anything.

I've had my AE900 for a month now and I've been loving it. That said, I think something is wrong with it now. Last night, I was watching one of the Lost Season 1 dvds and noticed that almost everytime there was a cut, a moment went by and then the entire image got brighter all of a sudden. It was very distracting and definitely was not happening before last night.

I thought it was the dvd, so I switched to my HD cable box to watch a football game and I noticed the same exact thing. I will watch one shot, then it cuts to another shot, a beat, and then the entire image gets brighter all of a sudden.

I thought it was the dynamic iris (if so, I don't know why I only noticed it yesterday), but I disabled that and the effect kept occuring.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Thanks.

Troy

01-09-06, 05:46 PM

Trusting my besotted memory has always been a mistake, but I think (qualified) that Projector People (forum sponsor) will do this.

ted

I have been told by Projector People that they will in fact check out a pj before they ship it and look for such things as stuck pixels, VB and convergence issues. Their tech said the salespeople are suppose to offer it when ordering but I know from experience that at least one doesn't. He said most people prefer to receive the pj in a sealed box anyways. I have been very impressed with their customer service through their tech so far in trying to get my issues corrected. We have reached the point where they have suggested I return the pj at their expense and they are over-nighting me a new one at their expense that will be checked by the tech before it ships. He will also check out the one I return to try to get a handle on what issues were pj related and what may be source related. Good things for both of us to know. He has been a pleasure to talk to and to deal with and I appreciate his interest in my time of need. Wish me luck. I think that good customer service is very important in this industry becasue so many of us are actually creating their customers by introducing our friends to front projection and participating in forums like this which enables people to gain the knowledge to try something that isn't always user freindly.

Troy

01-09-06, 05:50 PM

johnbe

01-09-06, 06:57 PM

Rebate issues: Dont know if any of you have received your rebate but I am having issues. I called Panasonic on friday because it had just reached the 8 week point for me. They have me in the systemas of the 14th of November but she asked if i had recieved a letter from them. Letter? Im looking for my rebate and the blockbuster card I exclaimed.

She said that my UPC code didnt match so it was kicked back. Interestingly i provided the original UPC to them. The Rebate person said that the number is manually put in and it was probably fat fingered.

Of course its probably just an honest mistake but I have my doubts. I read my serial number over the phone to her and hopefully this will fix the problem.

I still havent received any letter from them.

Anyone got the rebate yet?

You can go here to check on your rebate.

http://www.panasonicconsumerrebates.com/

I had the 900 and 2 phones I bought in November. When I put in my info I get this.

Panasonic Rebate Status Information

Status: Check Payment

Check to be mailed within 4-5 weeks of check date

Retailer:
Date Entered: December 23, 2005
Date of Check Issue: December 31, 2005
Check Number: 1210XXXX
Current Dollar Amount: 200

Status: Check Payment

Check to be mailed within 4-5 weeks of check date
Retailer:
Date Entered: December 31, 2005
Date of Check Issue: December 31, 2005
Check Number: 59611XXXX
Current Dollar Amount: 10

Status: Check Payment

Check to be mailed within 4-5 weeks of check date
Retailer:
Date Entered: January 6, 2006
Date of Check Issue: Check not yet printed
Check Number: 0
Current Dollar Amount: 20

So you can see I should be getting my 900 rebate in the next couple weeks or so. I assume the blockbuster thing will come separate.

scenaria

01-09-06, 10:48 PM

hmm thats weird.. mine doesnt come up but I did call them and they said it was processed and waiting for the check to be cut. she said it could take up to 14 weeks from the date that they receive the rebate form.

jason002

01-09-06, 10:49 PM

Capek

01-09-06, 10:52 PM

lax01

01-10-06, 01:13 AM

anybody know if you can save a display setting to be the default when starting the projector? i find it annoying to have to load my setting each time i fire up the projector. i couldn't find any posts concerning this...i'm gonna go thumb through the manual now.
thanks for your replies,
jason

Mine automatically goes to the last used memory setting when I turn the unit on...does the pj lose power (i.e: not go into standby but go completely off) when you leave the room?

bluefish123

01-10-06, 01:29 AM

I'm a newbie and have a quick question: does the 900u have a setting to view Standard Def video in a 1-to-1 pixel mode? I'm not sure what this is called, but both the Epson Cinema 550 and the Sanyo Z4 (well, at least the Z2) can do this... on the Epson it's called "Through" Aspect Mode. Basically the image gets smaller within a black (ish) field. It's also very clean, at least compared to a mediocre 480p or 480i source going into the projector and upscaled to fill the screen (top to bottom, not zoomed).

The nice people at TVAuthority in Los Angeles (Santa Monica) let me come by this morning and spend about 2 hours comparing the Panasonic to the Epson. Specifically Ryan Tartisel (often on this board), very helpful and patient! Unfortunately in their very nice and surprisingly large facility they didn't yet have HDMI hooked up to their projectors, only Component, but I was able to compare various DVDs in 480p plus a satellite feed in both 480 and HD. We were using settings that I'd gotten from this and the Epson forums, but of course they weren't matched so it was a tough comparison for color and contrast.

For me the two are quite similar, both quite good, though I wish I could have compared more HD source material. To my eye the sharpness of the Epson was slightly more appealing than the Smoothscreen of the Panny, but Ryan felt strongly to the opposite... he's very sensitive to SDE. Ultimately the differences that I did see weren't particularly significant (keeping in mind that it was a composite signal, not HDMI) so I'm definitely leaning towards the Panasonic simply for the significant cost savings. I do like the option to go brighter with the Epson, as well as the sharpness and the supposed longer bulb life, but these aren't significant enough to sway me.

What would be a deal breaker is if the Panasonic doesn't have a 1-to-1 viewing mode for Standard Def. I have many films that I've TiVo'd from cable and then dumped to a set-top DVD recorder via an S-video cable, so the quality doesn't stand up to upscaling. They looked horrible on the Panasonic, but were perfectly watchable on the Epson in 'through' mode. Smaller, but quite acceptable, as was Standard Def from the cable feed. We weren't able to find any similar setting on the Panasonic. Does it exist?

Thanks!
Scott

johnbe

01-10-06, 02:47 AM

Should I be worried that when I put in my information, all I get is:

" We're sorry! We couldn't locate any rebates with the information you supplied in our system."

I sent out my rebate stuff in about the middle of December.

When I put my name in the one for the 200 rebate it says the same thing. It was when I tried one of the other rebates is when it came up. It did that all along. You can put your name in one of the other rebates listed (even though you are not waiting for one of those) and see if it is listed there. Its strange but a friend of mine did it under one of the $20 rebates and it shows he is getting a $200 check. There must be something wrong with the way it looks it up. If you just sent it in the middle of December it may still be several weeks before it is in their system anyway. I sent mine in the beginning of Dec.

Capek

01-10-06, 03:24 AM

When I put my name in the one for the 200 rebate it says the same thing. It was when I tried one of the other rebates is when it came up. It did that all along. You can put your name in one of the other rebates listed (even though you are not waiting for one of those) and see if it is listed there. Its strange but a friend of mine did it under one of the $20 rebates and it shows he is getting a $200 check. There must be something wrong with the way it looks it up. If you just sent it in the middle of December it may still be several weeks before it is in their system anyway. I sent mine in the beginning of Dec.
Hey, you're right! It came up on the $10 phone rebate.

Date Entered: December 30, 2005
Date of Check Issue: December 31, 2005

Now only 4-5 weeks to go. :rolleyes:

johnbe

01-10-06, 03:26 AM

What would be a deal breaker is if the Panasonic doesn't have a 1-to-1 viewing mode for Standard Def. I have many films that I've TiVo'd from cable and then dumped to a set-top DVD recorder via an S-video cable, so the quality doesn't stand up to upscaling. They looked horrible on the Panasonic, but were perfectly watchable on the Epson in 'through' mode. Smaller, but quite acceptable, as was Standard Def from the cable feed. We weren't able to find any similar setting on the Panasonic. Does it exist?

Thanks!
Scott

I believe in the manual (which I can't find right now) what you are describing is only available on the rgb input. Which seems to me to mean that your recorder has to have a rgb output to work the way you want. Hopefully someone can be more detailed about it.

johnbe

01-10-06, 03:30 AM

Hey, you're right! It came up on the $10 phone rebate.

Date Entered: December 30, 2005
Date of Check Issue: December 31, 2005

Now only 4-5 weeks to go. :rolleyes:

Looks like they would advertise this site better and fix it. Would avoid some calls later. It wasn't listed on my rebate form. I found it by googling around one night trying to search for other rebate sites.

CT_Wiebe

01-10-06, 04:33 AM

bluefish123 -- I just looked up the AE900 manual (similar to the AE700 for inputs), johnbe is correct, the V-Scroll selection is available only on the computer (RGB/SVGA -- the HD-15 connector) input and it does not scale the image. The other inputs will all scale the image to 720p (if it's not already in that mode).

g0189a

01-10-06, 08:31 AM

Have had my 900 for a few weeks now, I wish I knew this when I first set it up so I did not have to figure it out. So here's my little post to all the other newbies like me. Tried searching on some things but did not find a post like this.

My set up:
Panasonic PT-AE900U (in via component, not HDMI, have the Motorola cable box)
Yamaha RX-V1600 (all audio/video in through here)
Motorola 6412 cable box via Comcast Philadelphia area (via component out)
a cheap Magnavox DVD player (via component out)
102" Graywolf screen
In a basement room with no windows.
Also have an old 30" Toshiba TV (as a second TV from an S-video monitor out on the Yamaha)
Speakers- Paradigm Monitor 9's; CC370; Cinema 110's in the rear

1) Best cable picture I've gotten - set the cable box output to 720p and 16:9 output. Seems better than the 1080i on many HD stations. Anyone else with this Motorola box (seems pretty popular from the thread), the menu is kinda tricky to get to. While the power is off (no TV signal yet still electric going to it) hit the menu button on the box iself. Took me forever to figure this out since I was always doing it with the cable on. Grr.

Example: for some hockey games on the Comcast Sports Net HD station where they are not broadcast in true HD (bars on the side), I can see it better in 720p. The names on the jerseys better and it does not look as bad. No idea why, but it works for me. (Will leave the lack of HD rant even when away game is broadcast by a Comcast station for an HDTV content thread)

2) Set your DVD player to 16:9 output and 480p (or higher if you have one). Makes a huge difference. (Like I said, for newbies like me)

An example is in watching Batman Begins, before making this switch, I'd notice artifacts horizontally on things like the marble stairs in Wayne manor or the glaciers in Tibet/Nepal looking a bit off with some extra blue. Now it's all good and the scaling to the screen is right on all the time.

Only down side is when I try and play a DVD on the TV, I have to change the output from 480p back to 480i. Maybe I'll just get a 2nd DVD player that upscales for this. There's tons of inputs on the Yamaha left.

3) Running the Avia calibration disc, it was pretty good right out of the box. (maybe I got lucky on my unit)

4) Let it warm up, you'll spend less time fidgiting around with the colors and settings.

5) 24' is not that long of a cord when you have to run through walls and across things in the ceiling. Mine is stretched tight and the projector is not as far back as I'd have liked but it works fine.

I wish I'd known all this when I had it initially set up at Christmas to show off my new toy to the family. :D

Glenn
Exton, PA

bluefish123

01-10-06, 08:38 AM

manufanatic

01-10-06, 10:12 AM

Status: Non-Pay Audit
The serial number that you have provided is invalid.

An audit notice has been mailed to you.
Retailer:
Date Entered: December 23, 2005
Date of Check Issue: December 31, 2005
Check Number: 0
Current Dollar Amount: 0

This is what mine says. Interesting as i provided them the original serial code information. I will re engage today to see if the information has been updated in the system. And yes i had to pick one of the other rebates then the 200 dollar pj one.

jandawil

01-10-06, 10:16 AM

Maybe a new thread can be posted for rebate issues?? Keep the tech talk on one thread and the rebate talk on another?? Just a thought....

lordpnats

01-10-06, 11:31 AM

I see something odd on my ae900. I am running the projector from a pc with dvi -> hdmi. When I view light text on a black backgroud, there are large blurry patches on the screen. The same bits appear blurry regardless of what of what project on to. It is also visible viewing dark text on a white background (google), although it then appears less blurry and more like the text is somehow less bold...it's a bit difficult to explain. It is very much more visible on a dark background (wtfman for instance). I have tried cleaning the lens, but this has yielded no change. Has anyone else seen this?

Edit: I havn't noticed the patches during movies, although I havn't watch very many on the pj yet, but it is quite noticable on web pages, etc.

nastyboy

01-10-06, 12:31 PM

This is the 4th 900 that I have now, checking out system temp notieced that the Iris is "OK"

Any Ideas why it would be a red ok?

scotty144

01-10-06, 01:01 PM

Capek

01-10-06, 01:52 PM

My 900 has started acting up after 114 beautiful, enjoyable hours.

This is the 4th time this has happend. I power on the projector and the green power indicator led starts to blink and the fan will start but the bulb will not turn on. The fan will run for about 30 seconds and then the red bulb led begins to flash still no picture.

I have been able to remedy this by doing a 'hard' power off a few times. I called my dealer today and they said to bring it into their service center.

Anyone else had this issue?
Ya. The lamp circuit on my first unit died after about a week.

federiko

01-10-06, 04:39 PM

Hey, you're right! It came up on the $10 phone rebate.

Date Entered: December 30, 2005
Date of Check Issue: December 31, 2005

Now only 4-5 weeks to go. :rolleyes:

Mine too came under the usd 10 dollar phone MIR instead of usd 200 Projector rebate....

scotty144

01-10-06, 05:50 PM

Ya. The lamp circuit on my first unit died after about a week.

Did they just replace the lamp or did you get a new unit? I am quite happy with mine so I wouldn't want to roll the dice with possible VB issues...

Capek

01-10-06, 06:02 PM

Did they just replace the lamp or did you get a new unit? I am quite happy with mine so I wouldn't want to roll the dice with p[ossible VB issues...
They swapped it out for a new projector. Luckily for me it was about as perfect as one could hope for. No VB etc.

1st Cav

01-10-06, 06:08 PM

Does anyone have an answer to this?........

Quick question, will the zoom function work while using an HDMI connection? I ask because i'll be using a 2.35:1 screen without an anamorphic lens and will utilize the "zoom" function to fill my screen. Now that i'm in the process of searching for a good dvd player, i'd like to know which connection I can or can not use to perform the zoom. Something in the back of my mind tells me that it's not necessarily the connection (HDMI or component) but the format 480p, 720p, etc that plays a part on whether or not the zoom function will work. Sorry for the rambling, any help you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated.

~1st Cav

steviec

01-10-06, 07:32 PM

Does anyone have an answer to this?........
Yes of course it works!

1st Cav

01-10-06, 07:47 PM

Yes of course it works!

Uhh....I need just a little bit more info. :rolleyes:

If I were to hook an Oppo to the AE900 and upconvert to 720p via the HDMI connection I would still be able to zoom out?

~1st Cav

pepar

01-10-06, 08:12 PM

Uhh....I need just a little bit more info. :rolleyes:

If I were to hook an Oppo to the AE900 and upconvert to 720p via the HDMI connection I would still be able to zoom out?

~1st Cav
Zooming is a function of the lens optics, not the input. Unless you're talking about picture settings such as "Full", Full Through", "Zoom", etc. Then it's possible it will not. My choices on DVI are only Full and Full Through. My first definition enlarges - or shrinks - the picture for fitting it to the screen, and the second manipulates the picture within the screen.

tvted

01-10-06, 08:55 PM

Uhh....I need just a little bit more info. :rolleyes:

If I were to hook an Oppo to the AE900 and upconvert to 720p via the HDMI connection I would still be able to zoom out?

~1st Cav

What? No Users manual?

Being an OAR crypto fascist I might decry this behavior noting that it indeed makes light of the artist's vision and that there are indeed more elegant solutions to your dilemma, but I won't. Being the tolerant, understanding fellow that I am, I can clearly state that though this is a benighted attitude which is destructive of artistic vision, and belittles those of us who insisted source be encoded with correct aspect ratios such that we can see "scope in all its glory, I will keep my opinion to myself and tell you that the ZOOM mode works perfectly fine on 700 over HDMI, but, only if you are feeding the unit something other than 720p so you would have to feed the unit 480 or 576 though this is likely to destroy the framing and intent of the creators.

But I won't mention that.

Check your manual under ASPECT RATIO.

biting my tongue, and keeping mum
ted

johnbe

01-10-06, 09:17 PM

What? No Users manual?

Being an OAR crypto fascist I might decry this behavior noting that it indeed makes light of the artist's vision and that there are indeed more elegant solutions to your dilemma, but I won't. Being the tolerant, understanding fellow that I am, I can clearly state that though this is a benighted attitude which is destructive of artistic vision, and belittles those of us who insisted source be encoded with correct aspect ratios such that we can see "scope in all its glory, I will keep my opinion to myself and tell you that the ZOOM mode works perfectly fine on 700 over HDMI, but, only if you are feeding the unit something other than 720p so you would have to feed the unit 480 or 576 though this is likely to destroy the framing and intent of the creators.

But I won't mention that.

Check your manual under ASPECT RATIO.

biting my tongue, and keeping mum
ted

I believe he wants to make a constant height screen and keep all of his movies within the 2.35:1 area. Plus he probably means to use the complete lcd panel area so there are no black bars on top and bottom of the 2.35 material. All other lesser ratio's will have black bars on the sides and then you can mask them out with curtains. He will not be losing anything. Is this possible without an anamorphic lens? I don't know as I do not us a constant height setup. I was going to do it once with one of my projectors but changed my mind and sold the anamorphic lens to make this possible. Or he may mean something else. :p

pepar

01-10-06, 09:20 PM

Or he may mean something else. :p
That gets my vote.

sajkhan

01-10-06, 09:22 PM

My 900 has started acting up after 114 beautiful, enjoyable hours.

This is the 4th time this has happend. I power on the projector and the green power indicator led starts to blink and the fan will start but the bulb will not turn on. The fan will run for about 30 seconds and then the red bulb led begins to flash still no picture.

I have been able to remedy this by doing a 'hard' power off a few times. I called my dealer today and they said to bring it into their service center.

Anyone else had this issue?

Scotty144,

I too had the same problem with my 900, and was able to solve it temporarily with the hard power off. The guys at visual apex swapped it out no problem. the new projector so far works beautifully. I had a september build on that one, my new one is a december build and it seems to be stable.

saj

tvted

01-10-06, 09:57 PM

I believe he wants to make a constant height screen and keep all of his movies within the 2.35:1 area. Plus he probably means to use the complete lcd panel area so there are no black bars on top and bottom of the 2.35 material. All other lesser ratio's will have black bars on the sides and then you can mask them out with curtains. He will not be losing anything. Is this possible without an anamorphic lens?

John,
I'm with pepar, but you might be right - I may have misconstrued what was asked. Good thing I bit my lip and didn't reveal my OAR biases. ;)

The only way to do CH without an anamorphic lens *is* to utilize the PJ's optical zoom. Most PJ's do not have the zoom range to accomplish this. The 700 and 900 do, which allows us to implement CH readily. The only issues are reframing and brightness loss.

I use one of these (http://prismasonic.com/english/index.shtml).

:p
ted

sailor06

01-11-06, 08:06 AM

pepar

01-11-06, 08:26 AM

Sankar

01-11-06, 08:59 AM

I have been following this thread with great interest and was hopeful that the Panasonic AE-900 would meet my needs for a entry level projector and for the price that I can obtain one with the rebate, it was hard to resist. However, I am noting a trend that the AE-900 may not be ready for primetime. I am concern that I reading about people sending back four projectors because of quality issues, complaints of VB, and other quality issues. Is there a problem with the AE-900. I have been trying to decide between the AE-900 and the Sanyo Z-4. Reading the Sanyo thread on this forum, there is hardly a mention of a quality problem or units being return for quality issues. What gives? Is the Sanyo a more reliable projector? Is the Panasonic a dud?

I suspect that there may be some selection biases here. We tend to only hear from those that have concerns. While I do not wish to diminish the relevance of any of the issues that have been raised, we must keep in mind that some of us here can be quite critical and seek perfection in multiple dimensions. There are many folks who are thrilled with their units (myself included) and remain silent (since they do not have a complaint).

I had a concern about the projector's convergence when I first got it and sent it back for a second one. The second one also has a slight misconvergence (less than 1 pixel) when I put up a convergence pattern. However, the image it puts out is fantastic (so did the first one). I decided to not spend time fussing with convergence patterns but to use the PJ to watch movies. In regular images, I see absolutely no evidence of misconvergence. I have looked for VB in both the units by putting up color fields (red, blue, green) using AVIA. I have good vision and looked quite hard but I did not see any. I now have stopped looking for them.

The fan on the second unit is a bit louder than on the first and if I go close to it I can hear it. However, from about 4 feet away and to the rear of the PJ it is barely audible and is not distracting even in silent passages. Yes, if I shut off the amps and listen for the fan, I can hear it ... but then I have good ears and a room that is extremely silent (60dB isolation from the outside) and acoustically well treated to the extent that I can hear the filaments in the bulbs! With *any* sound in the passage (including the rustling of the leaves), the PJ is not noticeable. When I first received the second unit, I considered returning it, but decided against that. I'm glad I decided to keep it. With hindsight, I could've stayed with the first PJ and been completely satisfied had I not kept watching a convergence pattern!

Is the Sanyo better? I do not know. But I do not think that the Panny can be labelled as a "dud". It is an incredible machine at a fantastic price -- *even* if I take into account that as one of the early adopters I paid more since I missed out on the rebates. It has excellent contrast and sufficient brightness to watch movies on my 120" DIY Blackout cloth screen ... *even* with some lights in the room (my wife refuses to sit in a completely darkened room). Is it perfection? No ... of course not! But it sure does make some valiant efforts!

I confess that long term reliability is a question that is yet unknown with this PJ however. I have around 200hrs on the lamp ... maybe if my PJ conks out soon, I'll be very upset. Right now, I am satisfied.

Just my 2 cents. :)

klefkow

01-11-06, 09:21 AM

I called Panasonic about the rebate. The web site is being refurbished and is not functioning properly. When your rebate is processed which takes about 6 weeks, it will take another 6 weeks after that to receive it. The Blockbuster cards are severely delayed and you will get info about it with your check.

pepar

01-11-06, 09:25 AM

I suspect that there may be some selection biases here. We tend to only hear from those that have concerns. While I do not wish to diminish the relevance of any of the issues that have been raised, we must keep in mind that some of us here can be quite critical and seek perfection in multiple dimensions. There are many folks who are thrilled with their units (myself included) and remain silent (since they do not have a complaint).

I had a concern about the projector's convergence when I first got it and sent it back for a second one. The second one also has a slight misconvergence (less than 1 pixel) when I put up a convergence pattern. However, the image it puts out is fantastic (so did the first one). I decided to not spend time fussing with convergence patterns but to use the PJ to watch movies. In regular images, I see absolutely no evidence of misconvergence. I have looked for VB in both the units by putting up color fields (red, blue, green) using AVIA. I have good vision and looked quite hard but I did not see any. I now have stopped looking for them.

The fan on the second unit is a bit louder than on the first and if I go close to it I can hear it. However, from about 4 feet away and to the rear of the PJ it is barely audible and is not distracting even in silent passages. Yes, if I shut off the amps and listen for the fan, I can hear it ... but then I have good ears and a room that is extremely silent (60dB isolation from the outside) and acoustically well treated to the extent that I can hear the filaments in the bulbs! With *any* sound in the passage (including the rustling of the leaves), the PJ is not noticeable. When I first received the second unit, I considered returning it, but decided against that. I'm glad I decided to keep it. With hindsight, I could've stayed with the first PJ and been completely satisfied had I not kept watching a convergence pattern!

Is the Sanyo better? I do not know. But I do not think that the Panny can be labelled as a "dud". It is an incredible machine at a fantastic price -- *even* if I take into account that as one of the early adopters I paid more since I missed out on the rebates. It has excellent contrast and sufficient brightness to watch movies on my 120" DIY Blackout cloth screen ... *even* with some lights in the room (my wife refuses to sit in a completely darkened room). Is it perfection? No ... of course not! But it sure does make some valiant efforts!

I confess that long term reliability is a question that is yet unknown with this PJ however. I have around 200hrs on the lamp ... maybe if my PJ conks out soon, I'll be very upset. Right now, I am satisfied.

Just my 2 cents. :)
Eloquent, Sankar. But even you who are satisfied are on your second projector, one that has a slight problem below the threshold of wanting to deal with. IOW, you're "settling" for this unit. Many folks just can't bring themselves to pull the trigger on a projector which could lead to these kinds of experiences. I'd be one.

altec604

01-11-06, 09:56 AM

manufanatic

01-11-06, 09:59 AM

Maybe a new thread can be posted for rebate issues?? Keep the tech talk on one thread and the rebate talk on another?? Just a thought....

I tried that weeks ago and it was merged into this thread by the moderator.

lax01

01-11-06, 10:06 AM

I tried that weeks ago and it was merged into this thread by the moderator.

exactly why a 96 page thread is completely useless..so hard to find information unless you read the whole thing...

eliocon

01-11-06, 10:09 AM

I am with you, sailor06. Understanding that the nature of these threads/forums is that mostly people with problems post and people that don't . . don't, I'll allow that this thread is skewed unfairly toward those with issues. But, come on! There've been many posters with two, three and even four problem projectors. That's just wrong.

I asked a question some pages back, trying not to get flamed, if this amount of inconsistency from unit to unit - in VB & convergence mostly - is normal for a projector in this price range. Legitimate question, eh? It went un-addressed. I'm thinkiing that $2k is a wee bit too little to pay for a projector and that things like optics and QC might be at a more acceptable level for another $500 or so.

Comments, PLEASE!

I had a couple of problems that I thought were the projector that ended up being issues between the DVD Player and the projector. So far the 900 had been awesome. I can give details on the incompatibilities to anyone interested. I have a first production run Denon DVD 3910. As far as someone sending back 4 units... I worked for Apple Computer retail for 3 years and every once in a while you'd get a small batch of CPU's with issues. And, of course, some poor schmuck would bring in his computer for replacement and end up getting one with another problem. In retail you occasionally get a "Murphy's Law" situation that there's no rhyme or reason to explain. I've read this entire thread and, to be perfectly honest, don't find the Panny to be any worse than any other piece of electronic gear that has sold as many units. There will always be a few cases of bad units. And there will always be a few people that seem to get more than their share of bad units. But as far as Iamb concerned it's an amazing projector and the best value of any part of my home theater. I painted the theater REALLY dark over the weekend and it eliminated the final issue I thought the unit/screen had and that was some blooming in highlights. Must have been the reflected light off the walls and ceiling. The picture is totally filmlike now.

Elio

1st Cav

01-11-06, 10:16 AM

Zooming is a function of the lens optics, not the input. Unless you're talking about picture settings such as "Full", Full Through", "Zoom", etc. Then it's possible it will not. My choices on DVI are only Full and Full Through. My first definition enlarges - or shrinks - the picture for fitting it to the screen, and the second manipulates the picture within the screen.

This is very good information, thank you for sharing. I was actualy talking about the lens optics "zoom", but now realize that the picture settings "zoom" mode is what I SHOULD have been referring to.

What? No Users manual?

No, I haven't even bought the projector yet. I prefer to read as much as possible in the forum to lower the chances of my asking the same old questions that have been given the same regurgitated answers.

Being an OAR crypto fascist I might decry this behavior noting that it indeed makes light of the artist's vision and that there are indeed more elegant solutions to your dilemma, but I won't. Being the tolerant, understanding fellow that I am, I can clearly state that though this is a benighted attitude which is destructive of artistic vision, and belittles those of us who insisted source be encoded with correct aspect ratios such that we can see "scope in all its glory, I will keep my opinion to myself and tell you that the ZOOM mode works perfectly fine on 700 over HDMI, but, only if you are feeding the unit something other than 720p so you would have to feed the unit 480 or 576 though this is likely to destroy the framing and intent of the creators.

I tell you what, if you're willing to fork out the extra $600 at time of purchase that I DO NOT currently have, I will be more than willing to accommodate both you and the artists vision. ;) Believe me, I know that zooming is not the "correct" way to accomplish a CH 2.35:1 setup, but until the funds are available this will me my means to a semi-geometrically incorrect end.

I believe he wants to make a constant height screen and keep all of his movies within the 2.35:1 area. Plus he probably means to use the complete lcd panel area so there are no black bars on top and bottom of the 2.35 material. All other lesser ratio's will have black bars on the sides and then you can mask them out with curtains. He will not be losing anything. Is this possible without an anamorphic lens? I don't know as I do not us a constant height setup. I was going to do it once with one of my projectors but changed my mind and sold the anamorphic lens to make this possible. Or he may mean something else.

That is my overall goal, but ultimately my question was in reference to the use of "zoom"(picture setting) with the 900 in a CH setup. Sorry, Pepar and Ted were right :p

Well thanks for the enlightenment fellas (maybe I can lose my benighted attitude now :rolleyes: ), my question was answered thoroughly.

~1st Cav

cohagen

01-11-06, 10:54 AM

Hello,

About 200+ hours on projector and overall I am quite pleased. It is stunning even though I can recognize some vertical banding and then also there is this convergence issue. Posted a photo below. Could someone tell me how acceptable / unacceptable this amount is and is there a way to fix it? What effect on the picture would it have? To my eyes watching movies, playing games etc the picture looks very nice.

Your advice appreciated.

It basically amounts to red being off by about one pixel. See here:

http://www.clubctrl.com/poker_nite_01.jpg

rwestley

01-11-06, 11:18 AM

If this is a direct picture from the AE900 there does seem to be a convergence problem. I would call the dealer or Panasonic and have it checked out.

snapper2323

01-11-06, 11:38 AM

Have both the $200 rebate and the blockbuster rebate been extended past the deadline of 12/31. If so what is the new expiration date?

Capek

01-11-06, 11:44 AM

Have both the $200 rebate and the blockbuster rebate been extended past the deadline of 12/31. If so what is the new expiration date?
1/31

jandawil

01-11-06, 12:06 PM

1/31

No, it's 3/31.
Quote from Panny's website:

Current Offers for PT-AE900U

Get up to $500 in cash and rentals.

Purchase a new Panasonic PT-AE900U Home Cinema Projector by March 31, 2006 and receive a $200.00 cash rebate and FREE Blockbuster Rental Card (up to $300.00 value).

For full Terms and Conditions and to download the claim form, please click here.

mtbkr

01-11-06, 12:13 PM

Looking to get a new DVD player. Someone mentioned in another thread that I probably did not need the up conversion. I should simply stick with PS players. Is this the best choice for me?

Riverplace

01-11-06, 12:31 PM

01-11-06, 12:36 PM

Looking to get a new DVD player. Someone mentioned in another thread that I probably did not need the up conversion. I should simply stick with PS players. Is this the best choice for me?

I don't know who told you that but the general consensus - if there can even be such a thing here:) - is that the Oppo player and the AE900 go hand in hand. That's the exact combo I am using and I find it to provide a nicer "richer" picture than my Panasonic RP-91, which is a very nice player but does no upconversion. Both calibrated with VE, projected on a 106' Greywolf screen in a dark colored light controlled room, and as always your mileage may vary.

That said I think you will be very pleased with the Oppo and this projector; it still has a few bugs (you are going to want to downgrade it to the 1022 firmware, which is very easy to do, until they fix an image shift issue between it and some displays like the AE900) and the remote sucks (even the "new" one) but for $200 it's hard to beat the picture quality, especially on this projector.

tvted

01-11-06, 12:54 PM

That is my overall goal, but ultimately my question was in reference to the use of "zoom"(picture setting) with the 900 in a CH setup. Sorry, Pepar and Ted were right :p

Well thanks for the enlightenment fellas (maybe I can lose my benighted attitude now :rolleyes: ), my question was answered thoroughly.

~1st Cav

No it wasn't. Links were missing. :p

It might have been helpful if you delineated your situation a little more clearly - don't you think?

Unfortunately the Panasonic does not allow for aspect control - but optical zoom does work as it has the range. This does bring some issues - brightness loss being the big one. An outboard scaler with an anamorphic lens would be preferred, if it is within your budget,

Further info can be found in the CH forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=117

ted

1st Cav

01-11-06, 02:32 PM

It might have been helpful if you delineated your situation a little more clearly - don't you think?

Perhaps you're correct about my delineating the situation a little more clearly, but in order for me to do that I would have to be a tad bit more acclimated to the terminology that is akin to Panasonic and their products (zoom=picture settings, etc).....which obviously i'm not. :)

Unfortunately the Panasonic does not allow for aspect control - but optical zoom does work as it has the range. This does bring some issues - brightness loss being the big one. An outboard scaler with an anamorphic lens would be preferred, if it is within your budget,

Hopefully my future BW Carada 115" wide 2.35:1 screen will help compensate for the aforementioned "brightness loss". I do understand and agree that an outboard scaler (I have my eye on a DVDO Iscan HD) and anamorphic lens (Prismasonic H600M) would be the best solution, as I do plan to purchase them also.

Further info can be found in the CH forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/foru...aysprune=&f=117

Thanks for the link, but i've done enough CH reading to nauseate most people, not to mention myself. Again, my question(s) regarding the Panny have been answered thoroughly and I very much appreciate the informative posts you have provided albeit your displeasure with us non conforming "temporary zoomers" :D .

~1st Cav

bubbawilly

01-11-06, 02:47 PM

I have been following this thread with great interest and was hopeful that the Panasonic AE-900 would meet my needs for a entry level projector and for the price that I can obtain one with the rebate, it was hard to resist. However, I am noting a trend that the AE-900 may not be ready for primetime. I am concern that I reading about people sending back four projectors because of quality issues, complaints of VB, and other quality issues. Is there a problem with the AE-900. I have been trying to decide between the AE-900 and the Sanyo Z-4. Reading the Sanyo thread on this forum, there is hardly a mention of a quality problem or units being return for quality issues. What gives? Is the Sanyo a more reliable projector? Is the Panasonic a dud?

I've mentioned this before, but Panasonic goes through a QC 'slump' with all of their HT projectors. This goes back to the 300, and includes the 500, 700 and now the 900. The first units start shipping gradually, and they get rave reviews. Demand then increases exponentially, literally overnight, and that's when QC issues start to crop up at a higher than average rate. Finally, things seem to settle down again.

It's the mid-early (now) adoptors that experience the highest problem rate. This has held true through all of the models that I mentioned. I firmly believe that Panasonic relaxes their standards, from panel tolerances, calibration etc., through to final QC, in order to keep up with production during these periods of enormous demand.

I owned the 300, and I've been tempted to upgrade with each subsequent model's release, so I've followed all of the models, and I now own the 900 (I was a very good boy). I've followed the Sanyo since the Z1 as well. Sanyo hasn't experienced this QC fart, but consider that when your dealer places an order for the 900, his P.O. is for 100 units, and when the same dealer orders the Z4, he orders 20. Sanyo has never been production strapped like Panasonic has, not that I'm excusing Panasonic.

Either wait for a few months, or buy now buy from a reputable, experienced Panasonic dealer and you'll be fine. They've all been through this before. Mine didn't even blink an eye until I called for an RMA on the 3rd unit, and he only barely blinked then. ;) Make sure to ask them how they handle DOA's up front. The experienced will probably answer that they simply swap it out, but I did run into a dealer at the time who was obviously getting frusted with the 500 (yes, I almost did it), and they were referring problems on days-old units to Panasonic. Not that Panasonic won't step up as well, but it can add to the hassle factor.

FWIW, once you get the good one, even during the QC lapse, it should be fine long term save for the very rare problem. My 3rd 300 served me well for 3 years, and it will serve its new owner well for another 3.

Jeff Cerwin

01-11-06, 02:48 PM

What are you talking about downgrade to 1022 firmware?

phdeane

01-11-06, 02:55 PM

I had a couple of problems that I thought were the projector that ended up being issues between the DVD Player and the projector. So far the 900 had been awesome. I can give details on the incompatibilities to anyone interested. I have a first production run Denon DVD 3910. As far as someone sending back 4 units... I worked for Apple Computer retail for 3 years and every once in a while you'd get a small batch of CPU's with issues. And, of course, some poor schmuck would bring in his computer for replacement and end up getting one with another problem. In retail you occasionally get a "Murphy's Law" situation that there's no rhyme or reason to explain. I've read this entire thread and, to be perfectly honest, don't find the Panny to be any worse than any other piece of electronic gear that has sold as many units. There will always be a few cases of bad units. And there will always be a few people that seem to get more than their share of bad units. But as far as Iamb concerned it's an amazing projector and the best value of any part of my home theater. I painted the theater REALLY dark over the weekend and it eliminated the final issue I thought the unit/screen had and that was some blooming in highlights. Must have been the reflected light off the walls and ceiling. The picture is totally filmlike now.

Elio

I'm with eliocon. This is my first post to this thread, although I have read the entire thing. I really didn't have much to say before, but a similar issue came up on the Cox Communications / Motorola 6412 thread I am more active on. The bottom line is that there have been thousands of these projectors sold (at least I hope so). How many of those that have purchased the projector are even on AVS? And of those, how many have a great projector and have bothered to post their great results? I know I am guilty of this. I am sure there are countless others who read this thread, but don't feel they have anything to contribute. Let's face it, most of us go searching for help (a way to relieve our pain, if you will) when we come across a problem with our electronic gear, so we come across the AVS Forum when we do a google search. I look at the Forum as a great resource BEFORE I buy a product. Believe me! It took me nearly a week to read through all these posts, but I still pulled the trigger, realizing the slight bias in any forum.

I guess in the end that I was one of the lucky ones, as my 900 works great. In fact, with nearly 100 hours, I see not a single issue. But then again, my perspective may be slightly skewed. Until I came across an article about the 900 in an audio / video publication, I had no idea the quality of LCD projectors had improved so much since a few years ago AND the price has plummeted. Once I realized I could afford one, I pulled the trigger rather quickly - thanks to all of you and your excellent commentaries, of course (not to single anyone out, but the comments of both pepar and tvted helped a great deal - thanks, guys).

I, too, am not trying to diminish the pain others have received with their "broken" 900s, but I feel pretty strongly that any new product has problems. Whether it be cars, home electronics, or any other electronic or mechanical device, there will be lemons. Just read the thread I mentioned above. You haven't see anything until you see what we've gone through in the OC (and across the county) being test subjects for Cox and Motorola - yet, I have two of their boxes. Why? Because the trade off in bugs is worth it for the price I paid. Even if I had received a bad 900, I would have gone through the hoops to get another one. I absolutely love this projector. I used to install CRT PJs years ago. These were amazing PJs, but the price was far out of my range. At least I got to play with them. And now for under $2,000, I am so excited to come home to my 900 each and every night.

Again, thanks to everyone's input on this thread. I can assure you that your opinions and statements do not go unoticed.

pepar

01-11-06, 02:58 PM

exactly why a 96 page thread is completely useless..so hard to find information unless you read the whole thing...
S-E-A-R-C-H . . . it's proper etiquette. If everyone searched before posting, the darn thing wouldn't be 96 pages.

Just my $.02.

altec604

01-11-06, 03:31 PM

I posted this on the 900 tweek thread but thought I should post it here instead.

Just received my 900 a week ago and now have about 24 hours on it. I've performed the 'basic calibration' for the 'normal mode' with DVE and the outcome looks pretty good.

A couple of nights ago I decided to dig deeper into DVE and output some of the reference test patterns. On the light gray full screen test patterns I'm seeing a vertical light magenta cast about 18" wide 20'' in from the left edge of the image and a very very light green cast on the other side. As I go up in density with the patterns it starts to blend in but not until past neutral gray. I haven't really noticed it on DVD material until last night. I spotted it in 'Spyder Man' during a scene when showing an almost full size image of note paper- light gray note paper.

Can anyone tell me what's causing this? Is the unit defective? Can I do anything to tweek it out? I still have time to send it back.

Thanks.

Well, I called the dealer and spoke with their tech and he said this is somewhat normal.

Has anyone seen what I'm describing? I've searched and searched through all of the 900 threads and haven't come across anything that describes what I'm seeing. Is this really normal? Hey, they'll take it back and send me a new one but here's the catch. I will be charged a 20% re-stocking fee it they think this casting is within the parameters of the machine. Great my word or should say eye's vs. theirs. I'm not getting the warm and fuzzy's about this.

So with this PJ some form of color casting is normal in the high lights of an image.
If so I think more owners be ranting about it.

All comments are apreciated.

Dan

lax01

01-11-06, 03:34 PM

S-E-A-R-C-H . . . it's proper etiquette. If everyone searched before posting, the darn thing wouldn't be 96 pages.

Just my $.02.

and if you could search inside threads, it would be great...but since you can only search within forums, its basically useless for solving a detailed problem...if, by some chance they broke it up into different Manufactorer forums, I think it would be a lot simplier to finding something rather than throwing everything under the sun involving the AE900 into a 100 page thread...

pepar

01-11-06, 04:23 PM

and if you could search inside threads, it would be great...but since you can only search within forums, its basically useless for solving a detailed problem...if, by some chance they broke it up into different Manufactorer forums, I think it would be a lot simplier to finding something rather than throwing everything under the sun involving the AE900 into a 100 page thread...
I'm not seeing what's on your computer display, but mine clearly has a button to "Search this Thread" next to one that says "Thread Tools." (top right, just under the "page xx of xx" box)

lax01

01-11-06, 04:24 PM

I'm not seeing what's on your computer display, but mine clearly has a button to "Search this Thread" next to one that says "Thread Tools." (top right, just under page xx of xx))

heh never saw that...that would be useful ;)

pepar

01-11-06, 04:27 PM

heh never saw that...that would be useful ;)
It appeared with the last BBS software upgrade some months ago. It is very handy as it takes you to the EXACT post with your search term(s). Knowledge is Power and you just got stronger!

1st Cav

01-11-06, 04:28 PM

and if you could search inside threads, it would be great...but since you can only search within forums, its basically useless for solving a detailed problem...if, by some chance they broke it up into different Manufactorer forums, I think it would be a lot simplier to finding something rather than throwing everything under the sun involving the AE900 into a 100 page thread...

You CAN search within the thread, check the top right hand side under the page#. Don't know if you have already tried this function and aren't satisfied with the results or if you just overlooked it.

Hope that helps,

~1st Cav

1st Cav

01-11-06, 04:30 PM

Looks like Pepar beat me to the punch. Gotta work on my WPM skills :)

lax01

01-11-06, 04:31 PM

You CAN search within the thread, check the top right hand side under the page#. Don't know if you have already tried this function and aren't satisfied with the results or if you just overlooked it.

Hope that helps,

~1st Cav

heh Pepar just showed me the light...look up 2 replies

pepar

01-11-06, 04:42 PM

My Budget HT
Nice!

bubbawilly

01-11-06, 06:01 PM

Search for VB, and you'll get 298 hits. ;)

pepar

01-11-06, 06:05 PM

Search for vertical banding, or VB, and you'll get 2000 hits. ;)
Now it's 2001. Thanks. :)

bubbawilly

01-11-06, 06:09 PM

lax01, is that a Graywolf?

mtnsean

01-11-06, 07:02 PM

The only way to do CH without an anamorphic lens *is* to utilize the PJ's optical zoom. Most PJ's do not have the zoom range to accomplish this. The 700 and 900 do, which allows us to implement CH readily. The only issues are reframing and brightness loss.

ted

Ted, I'm curious - when you say CH can be done with the Panny via it's optical zoom, do you mean that you could by a 2.35:1 screen and zoom the Panny such that the black letterbox bars on the top/bottom are lost in the screen's masking? And that if you wanted to watch something less than 2.35:1 you'd zoom out optically (i.e. manually) and have pillar bars on the sides (which could also be masked out if you had such a setup)?

If I understand correctly, that approach does accomplish a CH setup, but it doesn't provide you the extra resolution of an anamorphic lens CH setup, yes? I'm just trying to clarify the merits of this approach vs. getting an anamorphic lens, assuming I'm willing to re-zoom manually when changing aspect ratios.

Sorry if this is deemed off-topic, but we are still talking about the capabilities of the Panny at least.

Thanks,
Sean

tvted

01-11-06, 07:32 PM

Ted, I'm curious - when you say CH can be done with the Panny via it's optical zoom, do you mean that you could by a 2.35:1 screen and zoom the Panny such that the black letterbox bars on the top/bottom are lost in the screen's masking? And that if you wanted to watch something less than 2.35:1 you'd zoom out optically (i.e. manually) and have pillar bars on the sides (which could also be masked out if you had such a setup)?

If I understand correctly, that approach does accomplish a CH setup, but it doesn't provide you the extra resolution of an anamorphic lens CH setup, yes? I'm just trying to clarify the merits of this approach vs. getting an anamorphic lens, assuming I'm willing to re-zoom manually when changing aspect ratios.

Thanks,
Sean

Your assumptions are correct - its the way I started using my 700 as I always knew I wanted constant height. My 700 is filter-calibrated which though providing more On/Off does drop the lumens about 30%. Couple that with the lumens lost through zooming (as you know we've been over this point ad nauseum) and the granularity that a larger picture brings (since you are not using all of the panel and I'm an unrepentent close-sitter) I hastily sped up the process of purchasing an anamorphic lens. I use an HTPC which allows me to do the scaling - so there was no need to purchase one.

Strictly zooming is acceptable but a dark room and good masking is a must to cut down on light spill, but it *can* be done without a scaler and lens.

Overall a 900 is likely to be better than my 700 as some of the issues with the 700 seem to have been improved (from my reading).

I can't say for sure but this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590395) might be informative. Join the forum - it is quite egalitarian - even those prudent with our pocketbooks like we, are allowed. Plus you get to be a card-carrying OAR snob. ;)

ted

mtbkr

01-11-06, 08:04 PM

Im installing my 900 soon. Im looking for info or suggestions about the throw range and some benefits of closer or farther away. If there is a thread let me know.

Thanks

mtnsean

01-11-06, 08:33 PM

Your assumptions are correct - its the way I started using my 700 as I always knew I wanted constant height. My 700 is filter-calibrated which though providing more On/Off does drop the lumens about 30%. Couple that with the lumens lost through zooming (as you know we've been over this point ad nauseum) and the granularity that a larger picture brings (since you are not using all of the panel and I'm an unrepentent close-sitter) I hastily sped up the process of purchasing an anamorphic lens. I use an HTPC which allows me to do the scaling - so there was no need to purchase one.

Strictly zooming is acceptable but a dark room and good masking is a must to cut down on light spill, but it *can* be done without a scaler and lens.

Overall a 900 is likely to be better than my 700 as some of the issues with the 700 seem to have been improved (from my reading).

I can't say for sure but this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590395) might be informative. Join the forum - it is quite egalitarian - even those prudent with our pocketbooks like we, are allowed. Plus you get to be a card-carrying OAR snob. ;)

ted

Thanks Ted. I don't think I'm quite ready for the CH forum just yet, but I did want to validate my understanding of the CH mechanics. If there was some other method than what I described and you confirmed, it would really screw up what I thought I understood. ;)

-Sean

lax01

01-12-06, 12:57 AM

lax01, is that a Graywolf?

yes it is...92 incher

SteelyFan

01-12-06, 01:12 AM

What are you talking about downgrade to 1022 firmware?

The latest Oppo firmware revision is 1111 (the number is just the dat of FW release, Nov 11th for this one). This was just supposed to fix the brightness calibration level but instead gave a side effect of horziontal image shift on some displays (present on AE900U). So, to avoid this shift, just use the previous firmware revision (1022) and set the DVD brightness in the Oppo setup to "-3". That's it.

BTW, the Oppo firmwares are available for download from their official website. For all other questions and detailed discussions, please refer to the following two Oppo threads:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=491306&page=1
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=482239&page=1

pglover19

01-12-06, 07:09 AM

Jaruzel

01-12-06, 08:12 AM

Hi all,

New to AVS, not new to Home Cinema - Currently got an ageing AE100E and about to buy a AE900E (it's either that or a new bulb for the AE100E, but I think I've convinced myself that a new projector instead of a new bulb is better value for money...)

I have one question about the AE900E that I cannot for the life of me work out on my own (even after hitting the AVS search thingy several times).

Question: Does the AE900E support HDCP over HDMI ? If the answer is 'yes' does this mean that protected content from SKY-HD (up and coming in the UK) will work?

Sorry, that was two questions ;)

Thanks,

-Jar.

rwestley

01-12-06, 08:17 AM

The AE900 does support HDCP over HDMI. The protected content from SKY-HD should work since the AE900 should do the handshake from your SKY HD box if it has an HDCP HDMI output.

pepar

01-12-06, 08:32 AM

I will be purchasing an AE900 in several weeks. I am trying to decide on a DVD Player for the best projector image. The DVD Player may not be the best DVD player, I am only concerned with achieving a great projector image.
You should qualify your goal as "the best projector image . . that you can afford." In fact, that should be your starting point - your budget. With rare exception - in fact I can't think of any exceptions - a $1000 player will outperm a $200 player. Ditto for a $2000 player over a $1000 unit.

Having said that, very popular at ~$200 to ~$1500 price points are the Oppo, Denon 2910 and Denon 3910. I'm sure others may have different units to put forward, but these stand out in my mind.

Riverplace

01-12-06, 11:21 AM

pepar

01-12-06, 11:28 AM

I use Panny 900 and Oppo player. Once in a while I run into a DVD which has 16X9 aspect ratio for the 4X3 TV (what I mean is when you view it on a regular TV it will have black bars on top and bottom of the TV screen).

With those DVDs on my combination of equipment the result is a smaller 16X9 image inside my larger 16X9 screen. Of course I don't want that. I want the image to fill the screen.

I'va been playing around with both the projector and the DVD Player but cannot fix the problem. I think if I physically zoom the lens I might be able to, but it will require a ladder (for a size 2 pettie in a 10-foot ceiling room) to reach the projector. Anyone knows of a way to achieve this without adjusting the lens? Your advise would be appreciated.
I have neither piece of gear, but I run into it every now and then - older DVDs in particular. The most recent was Mission: Impossible. My workaround was to output 480i which made available ALL of my projector's modes for Full, Full Through, Zoom, etc. I forget exactly what combination was the magic one; I think I might have had to turn on Picture Squeeze on my player. Fiddle around with the controls I've mentioned and see what you can come up with.

jazz_24_7

01-12-06, 12:05 PM

Well, I called the dealer and spoke with their tech and he said this is somewhat normal.

Has anyone seen what I'm describing? I've searched and searched through all of the 900 threads and haven't come across anything that describes what I'm seeing. Is this really normal? Hey, they'll take it back and send me a new one but here's the catch. I will be charged a 20% re-stocking fee it they think this casting is within the parameters of the machine. Great my word or should say eye's vs. theirs. I'm not getting the warm and fuzzy's about this.

So with this PJ some form of color casting is normal in the high lights of an image.
If so I think more owners be ranting about it.

All comments are apreciated.

Dan

I don't see that on my 900. With gray or white screen I do see a slight blue tinge on the left side and slight red on the right kind of bleedeng from the edges. But it's watchable. Apparently there are internal adjustments for side to side color uniformity and maybe the green is off a little in your projector(is white minus green magenta?).

The only problem with returning it is the next one may be better or worse or just different. If the projector is otherwise acceptable it may be worthwhile to seek out the local service center to see if the color issue can be adjusted away.

Capek

01-12-06, 12:10 PM

I use Panny 900 and Oppo player. Once in a while I run into a DVD which has 16X9 aspect ratio for the 4X3 TV (what I mean is when you view it on a regular TV it will have black bars on top and bottom of the TV screen).

With those DVDs on my combination of equipment the result is a smaller 16X9 image inside my larger 16X9 screen. Of course I don't want that. I want the image to fill the screen.

I'va been playing around with both the projector and the DVD Player but cannot fix the problem. I think if I physically zoom the lens I might be able to, but it will require a ladder (for a size 2 pettie in a 10-foot ceiling room) to reach the projector. Anyone knows of a way to achieve this without adjusting the lens? Your advise would be appreciated.

Best regards,
Turning Overscan on on the projector should make the picture fill the screen. And make sure your Oppo is set to Wide/SQZ mode.

tvted

01-12-06, 01:04 PM

I use Panny 900 and Oppo player. Once in a while I run into a DVD which has 16X9 aspect ratio for the 4X3 TV (what I mean is when you view it on a regular TV it will have black bars on top and bottom of the TV screen).

One thing I might add to the comments you've already received is be sure your player is set to communicate with a 16:9 display.

I will ask though - is this happening with DVD's that claim they are "anamorphic" or "enhanced for widescreen displays"? If this is so then your 900 set to AUTO aspect and your player set to 16:9 should fill the panel with 1.78 content.

With 1.85 and 2,35 content there will still be black at bottom of the frame, they *should* fill the full width, however

ted

pepar

01-12-06, 01:08 PM

I don't see that on my 900. With gray or white screen I do see a slight blue tinge on the left side and slight red on the right kind of bleedeng from the edges. But it's watchable. Apparently there are internal adjustments for side to side color uniformity and maybe the green is off a little in your projector(is white minus green magenta?).
It's not color uniformity; it's slight misconvergence.

John Ballentine

01-12-06, 02:46 PM

Well, I called the dealer and spoke with their tech and he said this is somewhat normal.

Has anyone seen what I'm describing? I've searched and searched through all of the 900 threads and haven't come across anything that describes what I'm seeing. Is this really normal? Hey, they'll take it back and send me a new one but here's the catch. I will be charged a 20% re-stocking fee it they think this casting is within the parameters of the machine. Great my word or should say eye's vs. theirs. I'm not getting the warm and fuzzy's about this.

So with this PJ some form of color casting is normal in the high lights of an image.
If so I think more owners be ranting about it.

All comments are apreciated.

Dan
Dan:
I've been complaining about this LCD artifact for years. Check my previous posts. I watch a lot of black and white films and it's very noticeable to me. I saw it on my 500, my 700 and the 900. cine4home website calls it "shading"

kholmes007

01-12-06, 04:53 PM

OK, I have been searching threads on here for a few months now. I have a spare bedroom that I want to dedicate to HT usage. I won't be doing any major remodel of the room right away so whatever I put in needs to work for awhile. I thought I had everything all picked out as to what I wanted but now am conflicted. Room is 10' 9" wide, and 19' deep. Here is what I planned on getting...

Either 60" Sony SXRD or Panny AE900 projector with 92" Graywolf Screen... I worry about the ambient light with a projector to be honest. It gets pretty bright in that room during the daytime and the wife would like to use it during the daytime year round as well and be able to see a decent picture. Could the screen I purchase help with that? Any thoughts on projector placement in this room? If the panny can't handle it, are there any projectors in the 3500-4000 range that would work instead?

Also, I am having a hard time picking furniture for the room. We would like typical living room furniture in it and not theater styled seating. Any ideas? It will probably just be a couch with maybe a small, tall table in the back of the room with room for 4 people to sit at.

Also, I plan on getting a 5.1 Aperion speaker system and am not sure where/how to mount (or speaker stand) the speakers. I haven't been up there yet, but believe I have total access to the attic above the room, so maybe running wire wouldn't be too bad, I'm just not all that handy.

Any other thoughts/opinions would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

1st pic - Hallway into room
2nd pic - windows on side of main part of room
3rd pic - end of room where tv/screen would go. The yellow dots on wall are 92" screen size.

Kenny

jazz_24_7

01-12-06, 05:00 PM

Dan:
I've been complaining about this LCD artifact for years. Check my previous posts. I watch a lot of black and white films and it's very noticeable to me. I saw it on my 500, my 700 and the 900. cine4home website calls it "shading"

I found your post in a different thread and that is exactly what I see and yours is ceiling mounted? Mine is shelf mounted and it's blue on the left and red on the right as well.

Not all 900s have it to the same extent as I've posted previously in this thread.

I had read the cine4home write-up previously but the translation is not specific about the colors or the region of the screen.

jandawil

01-12-06, 05:04 PM

Hey Kenny, welcome to the forums...

Just a thought about ambient lighting....you could get some of those black out style window shades that hotels use and pull them down for viewing. This should be more than adequate and be inexpensive as well. If you want a serious dedicated HT, I can't imagine a rear projection TV being adequate. My friend has a very nice 63" DLP TV and it still does not engross you in the film like a projector can. For the cost of a "big screen" TV, you can get the Panny and a nice grey screen like the Carrada that will help with ambient light and black levels. Just my opinion.

SteelyFan

01-12-06, 05:33 PM

I see Convergece/Color Uniformity/Grey Scale geting mixed up in these discussions because of the different descriptions used and newbees like me are left scratching out heads. Is the following understanding that I have correct?

1. Convergence:

This is when the RGB panels are out of alignment. The effect is best seen with a AVIA/DVE convergence pattern (basically a white grid/crosses on a black back ground). Every white line will have a blue "shadow" on one side and a red "shadow" on the other side. A quick check is to bring up the PJ menu text and look at the letters.

My AE900U has a misallignment of about 1-pixel. It can be seen only when my nose ir right up to the screen. Completely invisible at my normal viewing distance (1.3x from the 92" screen). I believe Panasonic considers a 1 to 2 pixel misallignment within spec for this PJ.

I do not know of any user/advanced service menu technique to fix the problem.

2. Color Uniformity:

This can be seen when projecting the uniform grey-field test patterns (NOT the grey scale ramps). I.e, when the entire screen is supposed to be the same shade of grey. Chossing a light pattern makes this more evident.

My AE900U shows a pink shade on about 25-40% of the left half of the screen (mainly the left bottom corner) and a light green shade on the opposite side of the screen (again the shading goes away about 25-40% into the screen. This is not too noticable during actual movie viewing, but I can see it since I am looking for it! It can bee seen most clearly in scenes that have a lot of white content all over the screen - like an outdoor snow scene.

I belive there is a service menu fix for this color uniformity, but I am not aware of the exact details. I would appreciate it if anyone could post the fix for this.

3. Grey Scale:

This requires the DVE Grey scale test patterns/ramps. All the bars of grey should be just that - grey. If some bars are showing a different color (usually a pinkish hue on the lighter grey bars), then the grey-scale/gamma needs to be corrected. This requires calibration equipment to hit D65 uniformly, but the differences can be eyeballed out as a first pass using the advanced menu RGB contrast, RGB brightness, and High/Mid/Low Gamma corrections. A good place to start are the settings given in the AE900 tweak thread.

Phatmac

01-12-06, 05:34 PM

thaxx

01-12-06, 05:39 PM

Capek

01-12-06, 05:49 PM

Just wondering if anybody received their rebate yet? I sent mine in the first week of november and have not heard anything yet. I'm supposed to be getting the $300 BB cash and the $200 check. Its been longer than 6 weeks :cool: Just wondering. Thanks
As was posted above, check here:

http://www.panasonicconsumerrebates.com/

Though if nothing comes up on the $200 Projector rebate, you might wanna check the $10 Phone MIR. :rolleyes:

Phatmac

01-12-06, 05:58 PM

Its under the phone, December 23, 2005 it was entered. I was skimming through this thread and saw something. I hope they don't get it mixed up with my $20 phone rebate from christmas. Just wondering, does this also include the Blockbuster bucks or is that another rebate because it wasn't listed. Thanks for the quick reply

SteelyFan

01-12-06, 07:22 PM

Anyone doing a color uniformity or convergance check, make sure your len is in the "neutral position.
Because I have already seen that having the lens vertically set too much one way or the other causes color uniformity and misconvergance trouble.

Since my AE900 is ceiling mounted, I am almost at the max usage of vertical lens shift. But my horizontal lens shift is pretty much zero. With this amount of lens shift I do not see any significant misconvergence (like I mentioned earlier, just about 1 pixel red/blue on either side of a while line and it is seen only when right at the screen).

The color uniformity however, is a different story. I can not compare to what it is with zero lens shift for my setup (well, I could, but it's too much of a pain to climb up and mess with my adjusted PJ). So, is there a service menu change that can tweak this out?

Thanks.

alseides

01-12-06, 08:16 PM

tvted

01-12-06, 09:43 PM

The AE900 has some pretty extensive calibration options, which I can adjust fine. But, what if the projector was connected to a media center pc? I can calibrate the color on the computer itself also.

I'm thinking it would be a better idea to leave the PC untouched, and calibrate the color using the projector only.

I don't know if it'll do any good, but I could calibrate PC first and then tweak it further with the projector. Of course you could do it the other way too, meaning calibrate the PJ and then further tweak with the PC. Seems pointless, but I dunno. What do you guys think?

Display is the recommended part of the display chain to calibrate. Be sure to calibrate for Video rather than PC levels if you are planning on using the PC for DVD with particular focus on blacker than black and whiter than white.

I would calibrate display per http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=494606 . Your Vid card is likely to be pretty close and if you calibrate it, it will affect whatever you drive it with.

For HTPC calibration info see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=523614

General issues might also be covered here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=139

ted

alseides

01-12-06, 10:39 PM

hm, thanks. helps a lot.

sniffer66

01-13-06, 01:54 AM

Since my AE900 is ceiling mounted, I am almost at the max usage of vertical lens shift. But my horizontal lens shift is pretty much zero. With this amount of lens shift I do not see any significant misconvergence (like I mentioned earlier, just about 1 pixel red/blue on either side of a while line and it is seen only when right at the screen).

The color uniformity however, is a different story. I can not compare to what it is with zero lens shift for my setup (well, I could, but it's too much of a pain to climb up and mess with my adjusted PJ). So, is there a service menu change that can tweak this out?

Thanks.

I have exactly the same issue, ceiling mount, full vertical shift and a band ofcolour issue on the extreme edges of the picture. Red/magenta on the left and green/blue on the right. Thing is I would expect a lot of horizontal shift not vertic
al to cause that
Have you used Panel adjust to tweak out vb as I have ? Im wondering whether those Service adjustments have introduced the colour uniformity issue ! I dont remember seeing the problem when I first got the PJ

I'd also appreciate anyone posting whether this is tweakable also

SteelyFan

01-13-06, 03:10 AM

I have exactly the same issue, ceiling mount, full vertical shift and a band ofcolour issue on the extreme edges of the picture. Red/magenta on the left and green/blue on the right. Thing is I would expect a lot of horizontal shift not vertical to cause that Have you used Panel adjust to tweak out vb as I have ? Im wondering whether those Service adjustments have introduced the colour uniformity issue ! I dont remember seeing the problem when I first got the PJ

I'd also appreciate anyone posting whether this is tweakable also

I have not done any panel adjust tweak and have not entered the service menu so far. I am trying to avoid going into service menus as long as possible. I tend to get obsessive in my tweaking and if I am in the service menu, that would be a black hole that is difficult to climb out of :)

I remember constantly doing some tweak or the other with my toshiba 42H81 (RP HDTV) once I got its service menu info. My wife told me that for a while there, she though I bought that TV just to watch convergence patterns :)

sniffer66

01-13-06, 03:24 AM

I have not done any panel adjust tweak and have not entered the service menu so far. I am trying to avoid going into service menus as long as possible. I tend to get obsessive in my tweaking and if I am in the service menu, that would be a black hole that is difficult to climb out of :)

I remember constantly doing some tweak or the other with my toshiba 42H81 (RP HDTV) once I got its service menu info. My wife told me that for a while there, she though I bought that TV just to watch convergence patterns :)

I know where you are coming from

BTW, could someone post the Service menu DEFAULT settings up here. I'd like to check if mine are correct

alseides

01-13-06, 04:41 AM

I'm familiar with all the inputs, such as svideo, hdmi, and component. How does the PC input compare?

eliocon

01-13-06, 09:47 AM

beatboy77

01-13-06, 09:52 AM

Will the AE900 accept an HD signal from an HTPC through its VGA port? The reason I ask is because I would like to have an HTPC in my Home Theater and feed the AE900 via a VGA Cable.

~Josh

pepar

01-13-06, 09:56 AM

Will the AE900 accept an HD signal from an HTPC through its VGA port? The reason I ask is because I would like to have an HTPC in my Home Theater and feed the AE900 via a VGA Cable.

~Josh
Projectors with VGA inputs accept PC resolutions. Plus, you could always use DVI, convert the card's DVI to component, or buy one of the upcoming vid cards with HDMI.

ericsilv

01-13-06, 09:57 AM

i mailed my rebate dec 29 as of today not received . not sure if lost in mail or if their not picking up mail as i sent certified and they need to sign . has any body who sent theirs has received notification thats its received?

lax01

01-13-06, 09:57 AM

I was able to send my 900 a 1280x720 signal via the VGA cable...turn over-scanning off though and it will go 1:1 pixel mapping

pepar

01-13-06, 10:19 AM

DodgeViper

01-13-06, 10:25 AM

pepar

01-13-06, 10:29 AM

I do not own the AE-900 but plan to purchase it soon. I do have a question in regards to ceiling mounting the projector.

What is the maximum height the projector can be mounted from the floor?

What would be the perfect height from the floor using the AE-900?

What would be the perfect distance from projector to screen?

My theater will have 10 foot ceilings and I don’t like the idea the projector hanging down from a rod if I have to lower the projector below the ceiling. My other option would be to mount the projector recessed into the rear wall, but my throw distance would be in the 19 foot range. Having been a photographer I know that all lenses have a sweet spot and the less you have to use zoom the better the image will look.

Thanks in advance….
These are the wrong questions. (Sorry.) It is the screen/projector relationship that matters. I agree on the lens sweet spot thing, but that is practical for nearly NO ONE as it means the pj is centered horizontally and vertically on the screen. You need to do a LOT or research to pull it all together before installing. Juggling screen size and location, projector location and viewing distance is a bit complex. And then you've got audio factors to consider.