Panny AE900 Official Thread- Please post here! [Text View] - Page 13

mtnsean

01-13-06, 12:49 PM

Can anyone give me an approximate price range for replacement lamps for the AE900, and are they generally available from various sources at this time? Sorry if this has been previously answered, but I couldn't find the information, and I was concerned by the apparent difficulty of 700 owners in trying to find a source of lamps for their units.

Apparently, purchasers often aren't told the potential costs of lamp replacement at the time of purchase of the projector, which seems strange to me when replacement is a substantial percentage of the original cost. In view of the rather uniform, amazingly high prices for such lamps and the limited number of sources (correct me if I'm wrong), I'm wondering whether anyone has considered legal action against some of the FP manufacturers, e.g., unfair trade practices, constraint of trade, etc.

Thanks,
Jim Cate

Please tell me you're kidding.

OK, let me try to be nicer - you caught me at a crabby moment. Try this: click on any one of the many links at the top of this forum to various online projector sites. Then do a search for a replacement lamp for the Panny 900. See if you don't find more than a few that are in stock and have a very clearly advertised price, (somewhere in the range of 15-20% of the cost of a new Panny 900). Now try the same with a Google/Froogle search.

I just did, and I really, really can't see where anyone would have a leg to stand on when complaining that they didn't know 1) how much a replacement lamp costs, or 2) that they couldn't find one easily, or 3) that somehow the FP manufacturers are being unfair to their consumers. *Maybe* you could complain that your *retailer* (not the manufacturer) should have been more forthcoming with the need for replacement lamps and their pricing, and if you thought your retailer was being particularly deceptive, you could decide not to give them any further business. But Panasonic (and all the FP manufacturers) pretty clearly state the expected lamp life on their websites, in the owner's manual, etc., as does just about every PJ review I've ever read.

So, really, a lawsuit? Against the manufacturer? Does GM have any sort of obligation to disclose to you the price of a replacement clutch when you buy a new car from your local dealer? Or Motorola the cost of a replacement battery when you buy a phone from Best Buy? OK, sorry, I promised to try to be nicer. I'll stop here.

-Sean

bubbawilly

01-13-06, 01:15 PM

I do not own the AE-900 but plan to purchase it soon. I do have a question in regards to ceiling mounting the projector.

What is the maximum height the projector can be mounted from the floor?

What would be the perfect height from the floor using the AE-900?

What would be the perfect distance from projector to screen?

My theater will have 10 foot ceilings and I don’t like the idea the projector hanging down from a rod if I have to lower the projector below the ceiling. My other option would be to mount the projector recessed into the rear wall, but my throw distance would be in the 19 foot range. Having been a photographer I know that all lenses have a sweet spot and the less you have to use zoom the better the image will look.

Thanks in advance….

Let me take a shot.

The screen determines all of the mounting parameters that you are asking about, so settle on your screen size, keeping in mind that a good rule of thumb is to maintain a minimum of 1.5x screen width to the first row of seats.

Ideally, the screen should be placed on the wall such that the viewer's eye intersects with the screen 1/3 up from the bottom. Now you're ready to determine the rest based on the screen size and mounting location.

Consider that the 900 is limited to 63% lens shift (measured from its neutral position at the center of the screen), or IOW, it can be mounted 13% above, or 13% below the viewing surface. Determine your screen height in inches, multiply by 63% and subtract 1/2 of screen height to get the maximum distance the projector can be mounted above the screen. You will need a pole if you are going to ceiling mount. Otherwise, the projector can be mounted anywhere within the screen height, plus the number you determine as the maximum 'offset' above or below the screen.

As to the perfect distance to the screen, your photographic experience will tell you that the ideal zoom is at the midpoint of the overall range. Here again, your screen is the determining factor because it is your screen's dimensions that determine the available zoom range. Plug your screen dimensions into the projection distance calculator over on PJ Central to determine your available zoom range. Fortunately, the 900 has plenty.

Folks here have confirmed that the image brightness decreases as the projector is placed farther from the screen, so you need to take that into consideration as you decide where to place the projector within its range. Other than image brightness, there isn't really any problem with placing the projector near or at either end of the zoom range, vs. in the center, unless an extreme amount of lens shift will be used, but figure out the rest and post back if you find that you need to use more than about 30% of the available lens shift.

pepar

01-13-06, 01:22 PM

Apparently, purchasers often aren't told the potential costs of lamp replacement at the time of purchase of the projector, which seems strange to me when replacement is a substantial percentage of the original cost. In view of the rather uniform, amazingly high prices for such lamps and the limited number of sources (correct me if I'm wrong), I'm wondering whether anyone has considered legal action against some of the FP manufacturers, e.g., unfair trade practices, constraint of trade, etc.
. . . nevermind . . .

:)

kholmes007

01-13-06, 02:08 PM

Hi Kenny,

My room is similar to yours. I have a 92" Greywolf Screen about 12 ft. from the projector. I blocked out the windows completely and painted the ceiling black, the walls a very dark blue. I found that the light bouncing back from the walls and ceiling were really interfering with the image quality, specifically the blacks and I would get some blooming in bright whites. All that was alleviated by darkening the room. Of course the room is now the black pit of darkness but boy oh boy does the image look amazing. I hope you enjoy your Panny as much as I do.

Elio

Thanks Elio... If I can convince the wife to do that I agree that would be the route I should go...

DodgeViper

01-13-06, 02:43 PM

Let me take a shot.

The screen determines all of the mounting parameters that you are asking about, so settle on your screen size, keeping in mind that a good rule of thumb is to maintain a minimum of 1.5x screen width to the first row of seats.

Ideally, the screen should be placed on the wall such that the viewer's eye intersects with the screen 1/3 up from the bottom. Now you're ready to determine the rest based on the screen size and mounting location.

Consider that the 900 is limited to 63% lens shift (measured from its neutral position at the center of the screen), or IOW, it can be mounted 13% above, or 13% below the viewing surface. Determine your screen height in inches, multiply by 63% and subtract 1/2 of screen height to get the maximum distance the projector can be mounted above the screen. You will need a pole if you are going to ceiling mount. Otherwise, the projector can be mounted anywhere within the screen height, plus the number you determine as the maximum 'offset' above or below the screen.

As to the perfect distance to the screen, your photographic experience will tell you that the ideal zoom is at the midpoint of the overall range. Here again, your screen is the determining factor because it is your screen's dimensions that determine the available zoom range. Plug your screen dimensions into the projection distance calculator over on PJ Central to determine your available zoom range. Fortunately, the 900 has plenty.

Folks here have confirmed that the image brightness decreases as the projector is placed farther from the screen, so you need to take that into consideration as you decide where to place the projector within its range. Other than image brightness, there isn't really any problem with placing the projector near or at either end of the zoom range, vs. in the center, unless an extreme amount of lens shift will be used, but figure out the rest and post back if you find that you need to use more than about 30% of the available lens shift.

I am going to take a stab at the formula you presented. The screen of choice is 107’ wide by 60” from top to bottom. Based on this formula eye to screen should be 13.375 from first row.

Next in figuring out how high to place the screen on the wall, the screen is 58”. Dividing this figure by 3 I arrive at 19.3. If my seated line of sight from the first row of seats is 48” from floor this would place the center of the screen 57.7” off the floor. The bottom of the screen would be 28.7” from the floor and the top of the screen would be 86.7” from the floor.

With the top of the screen being 86.7” from floor multiplied by 63% and divided by half of the screen height of 29” I have arrived that the projector can be mounted a maximum height of 25.6” above the top of the screen.

With the top of the screen 7.225’ from the floor I may adjust my ceiling height from the purposed 10’ I had planned to build the theater. Personally I just do not light the look of the projector hanging out in space.

bubbawilly, does these figures seem correct? Thanks for your help...

eliocon

01-13-06, 02:50 PM

Thanks Elio... If I can convince the wife to do that I agree that would be the route I should go...

I found that buying a semi-precious stone in an expensive setting seems to do the trick with wives... hehe

Good luck. Let me know if you need any help with settings and all that.

E

pepar

01-13-06, 03:38 PM

I am going to take a stab at the formula you presented. The screen of choice is 107’ wide by 60” from top to bottom. Based on this formula eye to screen should be 13.375 from first row..
Not to confuse you, but my first row is .8 times my 92" screen width. My second row - on a riser - is 1.2. I encourage you to visit someone's home theater and see for yourself what the different distances look like. I did, and went with my present layout.

bubbawilly

01-13-06, 03:39 PM

I am going to take a stab at the formula you presented. The screen of choice is 107’ wide by 60” from top to bottom. Based on this formula eye to screen should be 13.375 from first row.

Good so far.

Next in figuring out how high to place the screen on the wall, the screen is 58”. Dividing this figure by 3 I arrive at 19.3. If my seated line of sight from the first row of seats is 48” from floor this would place the center of the screen 57.7” off the floor. The bottom of the screen would be 28.7” from the floor and the top of the screen would be 86.7” from the floor.

A 107" wide 1.78:1 screen is 60" high, not 58, but you are close enough. Try and keep the eye level within the bottom third of the screen.

With the top of the screen being 86.7” from floor multiplied by 63% and divided by half of the screen height of 29” I have arrived that the projector can be mounted a maximum height of 25.6” above the top of the screen.

I think I understand what happened here. The 63% is applied to the screen's height dimension of 60", not the height from the floor. Therefore, 60" x .63 = 37.8 - 30 = 7.8". You can mount the projector such that the centerline of the lens is 7.8" above or 7.8" below the viewing surface.

With the top of the screen 7.225’ from the floor I may adjust my ceiling height from the purposed 10’ I had planned to build the theater. Personally I just do not light the look of the projector hanging out in space.

With the top of the screen 7.2' from the floor, plus the 7.8" maximum available offset above the screen, the projector would be sitting at just under 8', or slightly more than 2' below the ceiling.

I know it's a highly personal preference, but this isn't bad at all. I have a low ceiling 7'6", and my projector hangs down 13". But (there's always a but), I wouldn't want to use the maximum lens shift (and that's where you'd be). I'd drop the projector another 6" so that is was closer to the top of the viewing surface, otherwise you may have a bit too much geometric distortion (bowing upward at the bottom of the image). My projector is positioned directly above my sofa, so there is no chance of anyone bumping their head (unless they're standing on the sofa). You could do the same, over either row of seats.

I take it that's a door on the center of your back wall? You could mount the projector on the back wall above the door (assuming standard 6'10" door), but now we're entering the realm of diminished brightness, so you'll need to keep that in mind.

pepar

01-13-06, 03:40 PM

With the top of the screen 7.225’ from the floor I may adjust my ceiling height from the purposed 10’ I had planned to build the theater. Personally I just do not light the look of the projector hanging out in space.
FWIW, no one will notice it other than you, ESPECIALLY when something's on the screen. Mine is nearly above the heads in the second row.

bubbawilly

01-13-06, 05:09 PM

No, you've got it. I understood the 28" from the floor.

I figured that I confused you by saying that the 900's lens shift range was 63% of the screen height, meaning the 60", not the mounting height of the screen, which in your case would be 86.7".

Man, I wish that I had a room of that size to dedicate to a theater. I'd be one happy camper!

alseides

01-13-06, 05:11 PM

I was able to send my 900 a 1280x720 signal via the VGA cable...turn over-scanning off though and it will go 1:1 pixel mapping

This is just what I was trying to find out. I want TRUE 720p resolution using the AE900 with a PC using VGA. But, I was concerned other cables such as component were better. VGA should have the same if not better picture, right?

Also, can you elaborate more on the over-scanning issue you mentioned for 1:1 pixel mapping? When you say 1:1 mapping, you mean that the projector is displaying the same 720 resolution, pixel for pixel, that the PC is outputting, right?

Thanks

DodgeViper

01-13-06, 05:12 PM

Good so far.

A 107" wide 1.78:1 screen is 60" high, not 58, but you are close enough. Try and keep the eye level within the bottom third of the screen.

I think I understand what happened here. The 63% is applied to the screen's height dimension of 60", not the height from the floor. Therefore, 60" x .63 = 37.8 - 30 = 7.8". You can mount the projector such that the centerline of the lens is 7.8" above or 7.8" below the viewing surface.

With the top of the screen 7.2' from the floor, plus the 7.8" maximum available offset above the screen, the projector would be sitting at just under 8', or slightly more than 2' below the ceiling.

I know it's a highly personal preference, but this isn't bad at all. I have a low ceiling 7'6", and my projector hangs down 13". But (there's always a but), I wouldn't want to use the maximum lens shift (and that's where you'd be). I'd drop the projector another 6" so that is was closer to the top of the viewing surface, otherwise you may have a bit too much geometric distortion (bowing upward at the bottom of the image). My projector is positioned directly above my sofa, so there is no chance of anyone bumping their head (unless they're standing on the sofa). You could do the same, over either row of seats.

I take it that's a door on the center of your back wall? You could mount the projector on the back wall above the door (assuming standard 6'10" door), but now we're entering the realm of diminished brightness, so you'll need to keep that in mind.

Yea I screwed up. I even mention 60" and somehow had figured 58". I did multiply the 63 % times screen height. I think I may have confused you though,

What I did was to divide the screen in thirds of which is 20". I then placed the top of the bottom third of the screen (20") at my eyeline which is 48" this placing the bottom of the screen at 28" above the floor with the top of the screen at 88".

When you said,

Ideally, the screen should be placed on the wall such that the viewer's eye intersects with the screen 1/3 up from the bottom. Now you're ready to determine the rest based on the screen size and mounting location.

I assume you met in my case with the screen being 60" that the intersecting third is 20" from the bottom of the screen... This is how I came up with 28" above the floor with my line of sight is 48". Subtracting 20" from the 48" would place the bottom of the screen at 28" from the floor.

If I know that the top of the screen is at 88” I then multiply 88 times 63% and arrive at 55.44” Then I subtract half of the screen height of 44” arriving at 11.44” that the projector can be mounted above the screen at its maximum height above the screen.

I think I am still confused... Sorry...

Jim Cate

01-13-06, 05:31 PM

Please tell me you're kidding.

OK, let me try to be nicer - you caught me at a crabby moment. Try this: click on any one of the many links at the top of this forum to various online projector sites. Then do a search for a replacement lamp for the Panny 900. See if you don't find more than a few that are in stock and have a very clearly advertised price, (somewhere in the range of 15-20% of the cost of a new Panny 900). Now try the same with a Google/Froogle search.

cted
-Sean

[QUOTE=mtnsean]Please tell me you're kidding.

I just did, and I really, really can't see where anyone would have a leg to stand on when complaining that they didn't know 1) how much a replacement lamp costs, or 2) that they couldn't find one easily, or 3) that somehow the FP manufacturers are being unfair to their consumers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sean, I think your problem is that, like most participants on this Forum, you learned about the issues of lamp prices, price, dimming of lamp output over time, very limited life when compared with CRTS (95% of TVs in use), etc., along with the usual lack of gurarantees for the lamps from manufacturers (and unavailability of extended lamp guarantee from most sources at any cost!), and have become accustomed to and essentially "immune" to such issues. In fact, many on this Forum seem to look at lamp costs as a convenient factor for rationalizing upgrading to next year's model. But for those not familiar with the issue and accustomed to using CRT units (again, 95% of existing TV's?), it's a major hidden cost and operational factor that comes as a big surprise. It's an issue that very easily wold be overlooked without a a specific and clear "warning" in large letters.
(Of course, technical geeks who take the time to read the extensive discussions on this and other similar sites will become aware of the issues.)

As to whether they get "fair warning," even from the online dealers on this site, I did in fact read through the advertisements re the A900 included on several of the dealers on this site. In one, the first page of description included no mention of lamp cost, lamp life, lamp deterioration, etc. Going further to the several pages of detailed specs, reached through various index categories, there were paragraphs of discussions and specs of over 30 features (e.g., resolution, brightness, ... data signals, display type, H Sync, VSync, inputs, outputs lens, optics throw distance, keystone, dimentions, power supply, etc., etc.) In one of the those appearing at the bottom of the long discussion, they provide recommendations for extending lamp life (which I suppose might give someone a clue that it could turn out to be a problem). In another, paragraph there is a section entitled "current list price for lamps...." Finally we are getting somewhere, right? Not so. - The the price is blank, like an uncompleted website. Finally I did find a section entitlled "accessories" that discussed lamp prices, (OVER 360 DOLLARS!!!, NOT INCLUDING TAX OR SHIPPING COSTS). (This particular dealer turned out to be more upfront than some others, in which lamp costs weren't even mentioned, as far as I could discover.)

I later was able to find information on replacement lamps and costs on one of the sites using their search engine. - But the point is that if I were one of the 95% of the public accustumed to conventional (CRT) TV's, the idea of searching to find out the costs, lifespan, related warranty coverage, etc. would never come to mind. Reading the glowing reports of these "new and improved" units, one would think that surely, by this time, they would have solved such mundane problems as how to keep the light burning. One would NEVER anticipate that you would have to come up with an additional $400 for a light bulb in a little over a year of average family TV viewing, or possibly earlier.

"So, really, a lawsuit? Against the manufacturer? Does GM have any sort of obligation to disclose to you the price of a replacement clutch when you buy a new car from your local dealer? ...."
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does GM have an obligation to disclose probable future repair costs? In circumstances such as this, YES THEY DO! An analogous fact situation for GM would be a new car with a motor having a new form of emission controls, in which the new controls had the effect of burning out the motor after two years of normal use, requiring that the customer replace the motor at a cost of 20% of the price of the car. If the customers were treated in the same manner as in the FP situation, the purchasers of these cars with "new and improved" high tech emission controls would be given no clear warnings about the problem or the expected costs, and no warranty coverage. And to complete the analogy, add to that a gradual decrease in horsepower and gas mileage over the two year period. Again, if purchasers of such cars were accustomed to living with this kind of situation, one might accept a situation in which GM didn't have to give a unique warning or notice (clear, large type, in writing, etc.). But since the auto customers are instead accustomed to buying vehicles that don't have such extra problems and costs, not giving such a clear notice would be legally actionable, IMO.

Excuse the "!!!"s. I'm not in a great mood either.

Jim

bubbawilly

01-13-06, 05:34 PM

If I know that the top of the screen is at 88” I then multiply 88 times 63% and arrive at 55.44” Then I subtract half of the screen height of 44” arriving at 11.44” that the projector can be mounted above the screen at its maximum height above the screen.

I think I am still confused... Sorry...

Think of it this way. The 63% available lens shift is relative to the reference (neutral, or no lens shift) position where the centerline of the lens intersects with the center of the screen. That's home base for the 63% vertical range. Think of the lens and screen as being joined together at their respective centers. That's why I mentioned that the physical dimensions of the screen, and nothing else, determined the answer to the questions that you were asking. The mounting height of the screen has nothing to do with it. You could mount a 107"x60" screen at the 14,000' point on Pike's Peak, and the 63% remains relative to the 60" screen only, since the center of the 60" screen and the centerline of the lens are inseparable.

Regardless of where your 107"x60" screen is mounted in space, the maximum offset is 60" X .63 - 30 (half of 60") = 7.8", above or below the physical border of the screen's viewing surface.

I know that it's kind of a goofy way of putting it. Panasonic could have very simply stated that the projector can be mounted 13% above or below any given screen, but they are speaking from the center reference point, not the top or bottom edge.

DodgeViper

01-13-06, 06:04 PM

Think of it this way. The 63% available lens shift is relative to the reference (neutral, or no lens shift) position where the centerline of the lens intersects with the center of the screen. That's home base for the 63% vertical range. Think of the lens and screen as being joined together at their respective centers. That's why I mentioned that the physical dimensions of the screen, and nothing else, determined the answer to the questions that you were asking. The mounting height of the screen has nothing to do with it. You could mount a 107"x60" screen at the 14,000' point on Pike's Peak, and the 63% remains relative to the 60" screen only, since the center of the 60" screen and the centerline of the lens are inseparable.

Regardless of where your 107"x60" screen is mounted in space, the maximum offset is 60" X .63 - 30 (half of 60") = 7.8", above or below the physical border of the screen's viewing surface.

I know that it's kind of a goofy way of putting it. Panasonic could have very simply stated that the projector can be mounted 13% above or below any given screen, but they are speaking from the center reference point, not the top or bottom edge.

Thanks bubbywilly I now understand how you came up with this figure. Where I got confused is when you stated, determine your screen height in inches. I thought you were meaning the overall height of the screen... Sorry it’s been a bad day in my home in trying to get a new refrigerator in the home and through all the doorways. I just had not read through what you said and understood it correctly.

bubbawilly

01-13-06, 06:13 PM

No problem!

I have been responsible for many cases of mutual mystification.

k-pax

01-13-06, 07:07 PM

mtnsean

01-13-06, 07:21 PM

Sean, I think your problem is that, like most participants on this Forum, you learned about the issues of lamp prices, price, dimming of lamp output over time, very limited life when compared with CRTS (95% of TVs in use), etc., along with the usual lack of gurarantees for the lamps from manufacturers (and unavailability of extended lamp guarantee from most sources at any cost!), and have become accustomed to and essentially "immune" to such issues.

...

:) I have many problems (just ask my wife!), but I don't think this is one of them. I bought my very first FP (Panny 900) about a month ago. My retailer was perfectly up front about the need for replacement bulbs and even sold me a extended warranty for the lamp for 4 years for $50 bucks or so. But that's not the point - MAYBE someone could have a bone to pick with a given retailer who isn't forthcoming with the need for or cost of replacement parts. But the manufacturer? I don't get it. If my retailer had hidden this info from me, I might not buy from him again. But Panasonic (trying to keep this ever so delicately on topic here) very clearly states their lamp life in their owners manual (downloadable from their website):

Lamp unit replacement period

The lamp is a consumable product. Even when the full life of the bulb has not been exhausted, the brightness of the light will gradually decline. Therefore periodic replacement of the lamp is necessary. The intended lamp replacement interval is 3 000 hours, but it is possible that the lamp may need to be replaced earlier due to variables such as a particular lamp’s characteristics, usage conditions and the installation environment. Early preparation for lamp replacement is encouraged. The lamp will automatically shut off after approximately 10 minutes when 3 000 hours of use have been reached because of a much greater chance of it exploding after this time."

(They also happen to sell the replacement lamp right there on the same site (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=94768&catGroupId=21360&surfModel=PT-AE900U&displayTab=S), for $360.) But I think your point is that it wouldn't necessarily occur to you to go look on Panny's website. OK, fair enough. I just disagree (vehemently) that this makes them legally liable for any sort of consumer deception.

I later was able to find information on replacement lamps and costs on one of the sites using their search engine. - But the point is that if I were one of the 95% of the public accustumed to conventional (CRT) TV's, the idea of searching to find out the costs, lifespan, related warranty coverage, etc. would never come to mind.

...

I guess that's where we differ then. The first look I ever had at a FP, I realized it was very, very different from any CRT I ever owned. (The part where it didn't have a screen was my first clue, the fact that it cost 5x more than my previous CRT set was my 2nd. ;) It'd be like buying a Ferrari after driving Civic's all your life. You have to expect that it's a different animal - needs synthetic oil maybe, or tires need replacing every 8,000 miles and should in no way be driven on snow, or clutches only last 15k and are unbelievably expensive to replace. But hey, what'd you expect? It's a Ferrari! :) )

So anyway, I went about asking some questions of my retailer, and reading about this potential purchase. The need to replace the bulb, and its cost, were probably one of the first things I discovered. I in no way thought this infomation was being hidden or masked over by the manufacturer. As long as Panasonic isn't advertising their bulbs as lasting longer than they do, on average, I don't see a problem. If that's where we disagree, than so be it, and good luck with the lawsuit. If it doesn't get tossed out of court, then we're in worse shape than I thought.

-Sean

Jim Cate

01-13-06, 08:16 PM

[QUOTE=mtnsean]:) I have many problems (just ask my wife!), but I don't think this is one of them. I bought my very first FP (Panny 900) about a month ago. My retailer was perfectly up front about the need for replacement bulbs and even sold me a extended warranty for the lamp for 4 years for $50 bucks or so. But that's not the point - MAYBE someone could have a bone to pick with a given retailer who isn't forthcoming with the need for or cost of replacement parts. But the manufacturer? I don't get it. If my retailer had hidden this info from me, I might not buy from him again. But Panasonic (trying to keep this ever so delicately on topic here) very clearly states their lamp life in their owners manual (downloadable from their website):

[
(They also happen to sell the replacement lamp right there on the same site (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=94768&catGroupId=21360&surfModel=PT-AE900U&displayTab=S), for $360.)

Sean, I'm happy that your particular dealer was upfront and honest with you about the expense of lamp replacement and was willing to give you a four-year $50 replacement warranty. (Which I haven't seen from any of the "authorized" online dealers.). - But that one incidence really doesn't have much significance relative to the underlying issue, does it?

Jim

bubbawilly

01-13-06, 08:19 PM

First, sorry my english. :o

I have just received my ae900, it replaced my former ae700.

When i earlyer to day for the first time powered it up, I heard a unexpecting sound. Its hard to describe, especially since english ain't my language.

But my first thought was: Oh now, the fans ballbearing is loose. The sound ain't loud, but i have never heard anything like that on my ae700.
I had it on for one hour and the sound was more or less there all the time, it changes with the light output, dark image= lower sound(volume) and higher with a bright image.

I have searched this thread and found a couple of post that sounded simular. It was mentioned that the auto iris produced this sound. I don't know if its only the iris, cause if i turn it off the sound is still there. (the sound slightly changes)

So my question is:
Have they done anything with the auto iris from ae700 to ae900? Or is it something wrong with my unit?

BTW: My auto iris is working, cause im getting darker blacks when i turn it on. But i never hear the "Click" from the iris like the ae700, just the "ballbearing" noise. Even if i change input or User memory, its no "click".
I must add, this noise makes the PJ more noisier then the ae700.

Any advice would be nice.

It would help if you could try and describe the sound. For the most part, we're a pretty understanding lot. English is my first language, and I don't always make myself clear. ;)

I had a 900 with a bad fan. It made a grinding noise. Instead of hearing the customary rush of air moving through the fan, it would make a grinding or rattling sound. It was very loud upon initial startup, but then it would quiet down, only to return regularly for about 15 seconds or so each time it reoccurred. However, I did determine that it had nothing to do with the iris. Turning the iris off did not eliminate the noise.

My current unit has the 'howling iris.' When the iris opens (for bright scenes), the air moving through the unit changes pitch from the normal white noise rushing sound, to a lower pitched howl. It goes away during dark scenes when the iris closes, and of course, it goes away when I turn the iris off. I've tried 4 900's, and only units 1 and 4 had the howling iris. Unit two was very quiet, and unit 3 had the noisy fan.

There has been an audible click (of the iris moving into home position) right after startup on all 4 units, but there was never any clicking noise when turning the iris on and off.

mtnsean

01-13-06, 09:06 PM

I bought my very first FP (Panny 900) about a month ago. My retailer was perfectly up front about the need for replacement bulbs and even sold me a extended warranty for the lamp for 4 years for $50 bucks or so. But that's not the point - MAYBE someone could have a bone to pick with a given retailer who isn't forthcoming with the need for or cost of replacement parts. But the manufacturer?

Sean, I'm happy that your particular dealer was upfront and honest with you about the expense of lamp replacement and was willing to give you a four-year $50 replacement warranty. (Which I haven't seen from any of the "authorized" online dealers.). - But that one incidence really doesn't have much significance relative to the underlying issue, does it?

Jim

Ugh. If you're not going to read what I wrote (and what you even quoted me as saying - the part above that I've bolded, where I freely admit my retail anecdote is not relevant to your original question regarding manufacturer liability), then I'm taking my toys and leaving this sandbox. We're way off topic anyway.

-Sean

k-pax

01-14-06, 07:18 AM

It would help if you could try and describe the sound. For the most part, we're a pretty understanding lot. English is my first language, and I don't always make myself clear. ;)

I had a 900 with a bad fan. It made a grinding noise. Instead of hearing the customary rush of air moving through the fan, it would make a grinding or rattling sound. It was very loud upon initial startup, but then it would quiet down, only to return regularly for about 15 seconds or so each time it reoccurred. However, I did determine that it had nothing to do with the iris. Turning the iris off did not eliminate the noise.

My current unit has the 'howling iris.' When the iris opens (for bright scenes), the air moving through the unit changes pitch from the normal white noise rushing sound, to a lower pitched howl. It goes away during dark scenes when the iris closes, and of course, it goes away when I turn the iris off. I've tried 4 900's, and only units 1 and 4 had the howling iris. Unit two was very quiet, and unit 3 had the noisy fan.

There has been an audible click (of the iris moving into home position) right after startup on all 4 units, but there was never any clicking noise when turning the iris on and off.

Thank you for the answer.

I will try to describe the sound a bit better.
The sound as i said in the earlyer post reminds me of a faulty fan or ballbering. Maybe the word "grinding" i saw in previous post is a way to describe the sound. Its not a loud sound, but it is noticable.
Maybe some other words can describe it better (from my dictionary): A slight "grating" or "jarring" sound.
The reason that Iamb asking about this is because my ae700 had not a sound like that at all, and my first thought was that I had received a faulty unit.

I tested a bit more this morning. And when i turn the autoiris off, the "grinding" sound i still there, but its not changing/varying with dark/light scenes. Its more constant. It has nothing to do with the fan cause if i set the fan and lamp to high, the sound doesn't increase, it stays the same.
My unit dosnt have a audible "click" from the autoiris, not even during the startup.

So if we compare the ae900 to ae700, has ae900 other noises than ae700? I can barely hear the fan, but its the other noise that concern me.

BTW: Im very pleased with all other aspects of the ae900, i think its great.

mtnsean

01-14-06, 08:36 AM

Thank you for the answer.

I will try to describe the sound a bit better.
The sound as i said in the earlyer post reminds me of a faulty fan or ballbering. Maybe the word "grinding" i saw in previous post is a way to describe the sound. Its not a loud sound, but it is noticable.
Maybe some other words can describe it better (from my dictionary): A slight "grating" or "jarring" sound.
The reason that Iamb asking about this is because my ae700 had not a sound like that at all, and my first thought was that I had received a faulty unit.

I tested a bit more this morning. And when i turn the autoiris off, the "grinding" sound i still there, but its not changing/varying with dark/light scenes. Its more constant. It has nothing to do with the fan cause if i set the fan and lamp to high, the sound doesn't increase, it stays the same.
My unit dosnt have a audible "click" from the autoiris, not even during the startup.

So if we compare the ae900 to ae700, has ae900 other noises than ae700? I can barely hear the fan, but its the other noise that concern me.

BTW: Im very pleased with all other aspects of the ae900, i think its great.

kpax, I'd probably have your dealer or Panasonic look at it. I've heard 2 Panny 900's, and neither one sounded like that.

-Sean

DAMAC

01-14-06, 08:56 AM

I am still researching the AE900 before I buy to make sure it the right fit for me. I have read many reviews and people's comments saying the AE900 is designed for shelf mounting. I plan to ceiling mount the PJ, and I was wondering what problems that could arise. I read that a couple people where saying that the air intake doesn't work well when the PJ is flipped over (which doesn't sound true to me). And I guess the offset is more convenient for a shelf mount. I currently have a 4805 mounted about 11.5ft from my wall throwing a 90" image. The 4805 is somewhere between 6.5 and 7ft off the ground. I was hoping to use the lens shift adjustment on the AE900 to give me the same offset I am getting now and throwing a 92" picture (I know that is no problem for the AE900 at that distance).

I have a 92" Dalite HCCV screen in a room that can have full light control. I sit about 13' away. Does anyone see a problem with this setup for the AE900?

DAMAC

01-14-06, 08:58 AM

I am still researching the AE900 before I buy to make sure it the right fit for me. I have read many reviews and people's comments saying the AE900 is designed for shelf mounting. I plan to ceiling mount the PJ, and I was wondering what problems could arise. I read that a couple people where saying that the air intake doesn't work well when the PJ is flipped over (which doesn't sound true to me). And I guess the offset is more convenient for a shelf mount. I currently have a 4805 mounted about 11.5ft from my wall throwing a 90" image. The 4805 is somewhere between 6.5 and 7ft off the ground. I was hoping to use the lens shift adjustment on the AE900 to give me the same offset I am getting now and throwing a 92" picture (I know that is no problem for the AE900 at that distance).

I have a 92" Dalite HCCV screen in a room that can have full light control. I sit about 13' away. Does anyone see a problem with this setup for the AE900?

One more question I have is the color and contrast comparison between a 4805 and AE900. Obviously the AE900 is a better PJ, but does it beat the 4805 in every aspect of the image it displays, especially contrast?

eliocon

01-14-06, 09:58 AM

I am still researching the AE900 before I buy to make sure it the right fit for me. I have read many reviews and people's comments saying the AE900 is designed for shelf mounting. I plan to ceiling mount the PJ, and I was wondering what problems could arise. I read that a couple people where saying that the air intake doesn't work well when the PJ is flipped over (which doesn't sound true to me). And I guess the offset is more convenient for a shelf mount. I currently have a 4805 mounted about 11.5ft from my wall throwing a 90" image. The 4805 is somewhere between 6.5 and 7ft off the ground. I was hoping to use the lens shift adjustment on the AE900 to give me the same offset I am getting now and throwing a 92" picture (I know that is no problem for the AE900 at that distance).

I have a 92" Dalite HCCV screen in a room that can have full light control. I sit about 13' away. Does anyone see a problem with this setup for the AE900?

One more question I have is the color and contrast comparison between a 4805 and AE900. Obviously the AE900 is a better PJ, but does it beat the 4805 in every aspect of the image it displays, especially contrast?

My room set-up and screen size are almost identitcal to yours. You'll be just fine. I have my Panny ceiling mounted as well and have had no problems at all.

Enjoy!!!

Elio

k-pax

01-14-06, 10:45 AM

kpax, I'd probably have your dealer or Panasonic look at it. I've heard 2 Panny 900's, and neither one sounded like that.

-Sean

Sean, thanks for your comment.
Yes, i have talked with my dealer today. They told me to return my PJ and they will send me a new one. :)

cohagen

01-14-06, 12:44 PM

cohagen

01-14-06, 12:48 PM

Quick follow up question...

My understanding is that there are 3 LCD panels in the projector. From the pic above it appears my red panel is misaligned to the right by about a pixel. But here is my question. The amount of red to the right of the white font is about the same width as the white font. So presuming the red is off by that much, wouldn't the font not be white, but some other color because of the absence of red?

Hope this makes sense. Sorry I am a newbie. :D

mtnsean

01-14-06, 01:29 PM

Hello,

Sorry to repost this but I am hoping for a bit more feedback. Below is a pic from my 900 of what appears to be a convergence issue. Here are my questions:

- Is this normal? (meaning what percentage of units suffer from this?)

- How would effect picture quality? (I'm pretty pleased with pq currently)

- Is this something I should try to fix, and if so how? Can I do it myself?

I'm using less then 10% lens shift. Thanks for your time.

http://www.clubctrl.com/poker_nite_01.jpg

I wouldn't necessarily agree that this is "normal", but it probably could be considered "common". It is definitely misconvergence. Whether it's within what Panasonic considers normal, I don't know. I do know that more than a handful of folks on this thread have similar misconvergence. Mine isn't quite that obvious, but that's because my blue panel is off, which stands out less than red.

As for PQ, generally the assumption is that if you can't see the misconvergence from a few feet away, it's probably not going to affect PQ for video/movies. However, if you're running an HTPC, I would imagine that text/icons might suffer in terms of sharpness since they depend on detail down to a row or two of pixels.

I was hoping that there would be some sort of alignment adjustment within the service menu, but I don't see anything that makes a difference on my PJ. I was really on the fence about exchanging mine for one with better convergence. I took a look at my dealer's Panny 900, which was slightly better converged, but suffered from more VB than mine, and had a pinkish hue to the right side of the screen. I figured I had a decent chance of making matters worse by exchanging mine, so I kept it.

I don't look for the misconvergence anymore. Lately what bugs me most about my Panny is the excessive edge enhancement/ghosting that I see, especially with SD sources. It can be really awful. I'm sure a lot of it is DirecTV doing something nasty in their compression, but the Panny seems to be locking on to the flaws and amplifying them. I have Sharpness set to the minimum, and I can still see the ghosting clearly from my couch (over 1.5x away). I never really notice it during the first month. Not sure whether I just missed it or if it's a new phenomenon, but either way it's all I can see now.

-Sean

controller2k

01-14-06, 02:53 PM

As to the convergence issue, I have it too, but not as pronounced.. perhaps a half-pixel off on the red panel. The previous poster is right... even from a few feet out the pixels all blend together and it is not at all noticable, especially from viewing distance.

controller2k

01-14-06, 02:56 PM

"In fact, many on this Forum seem to look at lamp costs as a convenient factor for rationalizing upgrading to next year's model."

Haha this is so often true!

jazz_24_7

01-14-06, 05:20 PM

RTK

01-14-06, 09:44 PM

I just got back from a trip to TVAuthority in Santa Monica where Ryan was kind enough to allow me watch some of the first half of the NFL game from the DTV HD feed to compare the AE900 and the Z4. As has been mentioned by many others on this forum, they both have an outstanding picture with the biggest difference being the smoother picture and lack of picture structure of the AE900 compared to the slightly sharper picture of the Z4 with more visible screen door. My initial preference is the smooth picture from the AE900 but I will probably go back tommorow for some extending viewing.

DAMAC

01-14-06, 11:13 PM

Jim Cate

01-14-06, 11:35 PM

[QUOTE=Jim Cate][QUOTE=mtnsean]:) I have many problems (just ask my wife!), but I don't think this is one of them. I bought my very first FP (Panny 900) about a month ago. My retailer was perfectly up front about the need for replacement bulbs and even sold me a extended warranty for the lamp for 4 years for $50 bucks or so. But that's not the point - MAYBE someone could have a bone to pick with a given retailer who isn't forthcoming with the need for or cost of replacement parts. But the manufacturer? I don't get it. If my retailer had hidden this info from me, I might not buy from him again. But Panasonic (trying to keep this ever so delicately on topic here) very clearly states their lamp life in their owners manual (downloadable from their website):

[
(They also happen to sell the replacement lamp right there on the same site (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=94768&catGroupId=21360&surfModel=PT-AE900U&displayTab=S), for $360.)

Sorry I didn't quote your "that's not the point." But your position that Panasonic has no obligation to warn purchasers up front (other than including lamp life in the owners manual ) that replacement lamps are going to cost 20% of the price of the unit, with tax and shipping, and that the light is probably going to go out after 2000 hours of use, if you're lucky, and that it is also going become progressively dimmer throughout that period, and that there ain't no extended factory warranty coverage for the lamp even if you are willing to pay for it, is simply incomprehensible. Disclaimers in general are required to be in highlighted print, prominately visible.

Jim

RTK

01-15-06, 02:10 AM

I am still going back and forth between these two PJs. Does "smooth" mean that the picture is not crisp on the AE900? Even though it isn't SHARP like the Z4, is it still crisp like HD is supposed to be? Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I am trying to make a final decision.

You ask a very fair question but there is no way anyone will be able to tell you which you will prefer. Both the AE900 and Z4 have great looking images, but they are a little different and the only way to know which you will prefer is to compare them for yourself. I hope to have some time tommorow to watch more HD football and a DVD (720p output player) which should give me a chance to compare video vs. film material. Having read just about everything I can comparing the two, it really comes down to seeing them for yourself and choosing the one you like better. If I didn't have the opportunity to preview them my best advice would be to make a decision based upon your preference for slightly sharper image vs. one with virtually no picture structure. That being said, I didn't find the SDE on the Z4 to be excessive nor would I say the image on the AE900 is soft. The images are just slightly different. Also my comments above completely ignore the different specific features of each projector so don't overlook the one which might best suit your needs and viewing habits.

steviec

01-15-06, 09:00 AM

mtnsean:
Try turning the sharpness down to -4 on the 900 and also make sure you have it plugged into a power surge conditioner like the monster powerbar 1100.
Big difference,

eliocon

01-15-06, 09:30 AM

DAMAC

01-15-06, 09:48 AM

You ask a very fair question but there is no way anyone will be able to tell you which you will prefer. Both the AE900 and Z4 have great looking images, but they are a little different and the only way to know which you will prefer is to compare them for yourself. I hope to have some time tommorow to watch more HD football and a DVD (720p output player) which should give me a chance to compare video vs. film material. Having read just about everything I can comparing the two, it really comes down to seeing them for yourself and choosing the one you like better. If I didn't have the opportunity to preview them my best advice would be to make a decision based upon your preference for slightly sharper image vs. one with virtually no picture structure. That being said, I didn't find the SDE on the Z4 to be excessive nor would I say the image on the AE900 is soft. The images are just slightly different. Also my comments above completely ignore the different specific features of each projector so don't overlook the one which might best suit your needs and viewing habits.

Thanks for the info. I hate to be another one of those people that keep asking questions continually about these two projectors. A day doesn't go by that someone isn't asking which is better in this forum.

Would you mind posting again or PM'ing me after you get another chance to view the two and telling me what you thought? I doubt I will have a chance to see either of these in action. There is an Ovation about 80min from where I live, and there is a HT store 100min in the other direction. Guessing from the last time I was there I doubt either place carries these models. Anyway, please let me know what wisdom your experience today gives you. :D

mtnsean

01-15-06, 11:18 AM

mtnsean

01-15-06, 11:25 AM

mtnsean:
Try turning the sharpness down to -4 on the 900 and also make sure you have it plugged into a power surge conditioner like the monster powerbar 1100.
Big difference,

Thanks Steve - as I mentioned, I have sharpness down to the minimum (-4). I also have a decent Panamax surge supressor. A *lot* of the ghosting comes from DirecTV - I verified this by plugging my HDTivo into another set - but the Panny isn't helping. Even on uncompressed OTA HD sources like watching my beloved, woeful Redskins lose on Fox yesterday, there's a faint EE/ghosting affect on the normal play camera. At first I thought it was just a lack of sharpness, but when you look closely it's really EE/ghosting that seems to be the culprit. I'm being hyper-critical I know - my guests were completely lost in the picture and the game - but hey, that's why were here. :)

-Sean

cpc

01-15-06, 11:28 AM

Is anybody running a constant height setup with a panamorph? With the AE900 smooth screen, and using the full 1280 x 720 panel with a panamorph (is that the right lens), you should be able to get some killer smooth looking large 2.35:1 images.

tvted

01-15-06, 12:16 PM

But your position that Panasonic has no obligation to warn purchasers up front (other than including lamp life in the owners manual ) that replacement lamps are going to cost 20% of the price of the unit, with tax and shipping, and that the light is probably going to go out after 2000 hours of use, if you're lucky, and that it is also going become progressively dimmer throughout that period, and that there ain't no extended factory warranty coverage for the lamp even if you are willing to pay for it, is simply incomprehensible. Disclaimers in general are required to be in highlighted print, prominately visible.

Jim

This would be an industry issue so pointing the finger at Panasonic, appears, in the least, biased. Bulb issues are posted throughut AVS - this is not a new topic.

It applies to RP as well as FP. The RP chassis offers the advantage of being roomy, thus the opportunity to keep the bulb thermally stable is greater. Put a bulb in a box that doesn't efficiently deal with heat and it will go.

Until we move to more advanced light sources - which is happening - we will be confronted with the limits of bulb tech.

ted

tvted

01-15-06, 12:20 PM

tvted

01-15-06, 12:32 PM

Even on uncompressed OTA HD sources like watching my beloved, woeful Redskins lose on Fox yesterday, there's a faint EE/ghosting affect on the normal play camera. At first I thought it was just a lack of sharpness, but when you look closely it's really EE/ghosting that seems to be the culprit. I'm being hyper-critical I know - my guests were completely lost in the picture and the game - but hey, that's why were here. :)

-Sean

Though I believe that the 700/900 units *do* over-enhance where they shouldn't, upscaling will also contribute some EE, but really I'm just commenting on the TV side of things.

From experience, video ops have been known to introduce "contouring" to make those images "crisp" - isn't that what we expect from TV? This is particularly true in Sports production. In a situation where long lenses being used at large apertures (gotta have those BRIGHT images as well) contouring gives that false sharpness that catches the viewers attention - until they realize its wrong.

Its really a leftover from the days of SD - I hope as the audience becomes more sophisticated we will move away from such unnatural images. I ain't holding my breath though. ;)

ted

thaxx

01-15-06, 01:46 PM

mtnsean

01-15-06, 01:58 PM

I found something on the 900 I found interesting.
It really didn't effect the picture quality though.
I set up my flicker adjustment awhile back and rechecked them when I first started my PJ today. Well, they were all flickering again. ( I had set them all to around 75 to 78 previously to get the flicker out) Most of the defaults are around 63-67.
So I readjusted them, and the flicker went away around the original settings.
I just checked them again, after having the PJ on a couple hours, and there flickering again.
I now have them back to the 75-78 range to remove the flicker.
This obviously means these setting act differently at different tempatures.
Like I said, I can't see a picture difference,but thought some of you might want to know.

I have found this exact same behavior. Flicker settings are very much "warm-up" dependent. I do however notice a difference - very noticable VB when the flicker settings don't match the temperature. I have adjusted flicker to be "correct" - i.e. no flicker - when the PJ is warmed up, so whenever I turn on the PJ, I see VB for the first 20 minutes or so. A compromise I'm willing to live with.

-Sean

Jim Cate

01-15-06, 02:46 PM

This would be an industry issue so pointing the finger at Panasonic, appears, in the least, biased. Bulb issues are posted throughut AVS - this is not a new topic.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. I was responding to a discussion of a particular Panny purchase.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It applies to RP as well as FP. The RP chassis offers the advantage of being roomy, thus the opportunity to keep the bulb thermally stable is greater. Put a bulb in a box that doesn't efficiently deal with heat and it will go.

Until we move to more advanced light sources - which is happening - we will be confronted with the limits of bulb tech.

ted

I understand that some of the RPTV's now use new (LED?) light sources that offer some improvement with respect to at least some of the problems of conventional bulbs. Does anyone know whether it's likely that they can be adapted for use in front projectors?

Jim

eldithomaso

01-15-06, 03:04 PM

Ok - pardon me if this has been answered before - but having read all pages of the mutiple AE-900U threads I don't think so...

I have my AE-900 stand mounted)
- its on top of a glass shelf
- it has another glass shelf 4.5" above it (with some 1/3 inch ventilation between that glass (offset bolts mount glass in place).

The projector is placed so that it is against the Left Front Edge (facing media stand) of the 1st shelf down from the top. It is placed (due to cable mounting constrictions) forward on the shelf so the entire left and right sides are unobstructed, but the front left (where the fan exhaust is) sits only 2" back from the left front shelf support of the stand (this blocks (line of sight) 2"of the 3" of width of the fan outlet on the front (2" of the 3" wide air outlet vents onto the shelf support 2" in front of that air outlet).

Fan set on Auto.

During normal use the shelf support of the stand gets pretty damn hot - I will have to measure the temperature with a thermometer and report back.

Anyone with similar issues in placement?

QUESTIONS:

1) am I running too hot?

2) Do I need more distance to ventilate the front of the projector?

3) Recommendations if a change of placement is not an option?

- will an extra inch of frontal exhaust space make a huge difference?

(for a stand photo visit) http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/ref=br_1_4/602-9289855-1090234?%5Fencoding=UTF8&frombrowse=1&asin=B000B6OP5Y

Projector is not on top shelf but 1st one down from the very top...

thaxx

01-15-06, 03:17 PM

eldithomaso

01-15-06, 03:30 PM

Thaxx:

How does one access the service menu?

{Got it - Option Menu - highlight OSD - press and hold ENTER key for 3 seconds}

I have a fine cooking thermometer placed gently into the grate right in mid outlet.
In a 70 Degree room - the reading with a movie playing - after 20 minute lamp warm up is 145 or so.

{From option menu 136-7 for first temp, 179-180 for second}

Sound reasonable? Or too high? Exhaust tempature is now 155 in 70 degree house with heater currently running.

Thanks Thaxx for the help.

Can anyone else post temps with use after warm up?

cpc

01-15-06, 03:38 PM

tvted,

I guess it does. You tell me. How do 2.35:1 movies look? I heard the 900 is even better smooth screen wise.

:)

pepar

01-15-06, 04:40 PM

Sorry I didn't quote your "that's not the point." But your position that Panasonic has no obligation to warn purchasers up front (other than including lamp life in the owners manual ) that replacement lamps are going to cost 20% of the price of the unit, with tax and shipping, and that the light is probably going to go out after 2000 hours of use, if you're lucky, and that it is also going become progressively dimmer throughout that period, and that there ain't no extended factory warranty coverage for the lamp even if you are willing to pay for it, is simply incomprehensible. Disclaimers in general are required to be in highlighted print, prominately visible.

Jim
How much research did you do before buying a $2000 piece of gear? And how can you refer to the bulb as a "hidden" replacement cost? (I'm quoting from and referring to all your rants.) It is a major component. The equivalent in a car would be closer to the engine than the brake. Anyway, you'll not find any sympathy here, and certainly not with an attitude. mtnsean took a crack at trying to explain and you greeted him with something about "his problem." Good luck with your litigation; you just may win because the entire courtroom will be rolling on the floor after you state your case.

:mad:

tvted

01-15-06, 05:27 PM

I understand that some of the RPTV's now use new (LED?) light sources that offer some improvement with respect to at least some of the problems of conventional bulbs. Does anyone know whether it's likely that they can be adapted for use in front projectors?

Jim

These were shown in prototype at CES and are being discussed in the rich guys forum
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=612634

There is also a possibility of lasers:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=629461

It will be a while for FP - lumens are the issue. The payoff would be enormous though and not simply in light life but in Contrast control.

ted

tvted

01-15-06, 05:32 PM

I have a fine cooking thermometer placed gently into the grate right in mid outlet.
In a 70 Degree room - the reading with a movie playing - after 20 minute lamp warm up is 145 or so.

{From option menu 136-7 for first temp, 179-180 for second}

Sound reasonable? Or too high? Exhaust tempature is now 155 in 70 degree house with heater currently running.

Unless it has changed since the 700, Panasonic believes that lower numbers represent higher temps.

ted

tvted

01-15-06, 05:43 PM

tvted,

I guess it does. You tell me. How do 2.35:1 movies look? I heard the 900 is even better smooth screen wise.

:)
Hi Chris, hope you haven't forgotten me. :o

I think its wonderful - though I'm due to replace a bulb (in Feb. after the election). Currently peekaboo has raised its pixely little head - I'm convinced its due to the temp extremes that my unit experiences in winter. After about an hour it settles.

On the CH forum, Ansi of Prismasonic mentioned that there were issues with the 900 (softness). Some of us chimed in that it would be worth his while to confirm that is was not his unit as some reported no issues - some 900's have been reported as being soft. I don't know if he ever did, but do know there are forum members who use the 900 with Prismasonic units. These are horizontal stretch rather than vertical squeeze like the Panamorph.

ted

Troy

01-16-06, 12:03 AM

Troy

01-16-06, 12:26 AM

I am on my second 900 having returned the first for ringing/ghosting issues and possibly misconvergence. I also received a Oppo DVD player to try on the replacement pj using the DVI to Hdmi cable. The replcement pj seems to be a little better after dropping the sharpening although the ringing is still there. The Oppo looks about the same so it didn't help any. This elimiates any issues with longer vs shorter cables, component vs DVI, my existing DVD player or the Oppo DVD player since the problem exists for all of them. It doesn't explain what is causing the problem. Strangely enough, while watching cable HDTV ("Contact" with Jodie Foster), I didn't see the ringing at all. It appears to be in the DVD and pj hookup and may suggest it not be the pj by itself. I am not sure where to go from here. I guess I will try different outlets on different circuits to power the pj and DVD player to see if that helps or perhaps buy a Monster power bar at BB to see if that helps. The pj does have an extension cable bringing it electric which could be an issue but then again why not durring HDTV and I did try the pj withoput the extension and the problem was still there? I would really like to solve this mystery quickly before I run up too many hours on this pj. I fear the problem may not go away with a different brand pj. Please give me some ideas on what might be causing this or things I should check.

The only other thing I wish is that the pj was sharper. It is almost like the image is defocussed slightly to get rid of the SDE, a trick that some suggested on earlier pjs with excessive SDE. I may have to look at the Z4. Wish someone had a comparrison locally of the two. But then, they say the Z4 doesn't do well with standard definition stuff. Any other LCD pjs I should consider under $3000?

tvted

01-16-06, 01:21 AM

I. It doesn't explain what is causing the problem. Strangely enough, while watching cable HDTV ("Contact" with Jodie Foster), I didn't see the ringing at all. It appears to be in the DVD and pj hookup and may suggest it not be the pj by itself. I am not sure where to go from here.

Do you have a PC hooked to your 900? If so you might trying viewing some of the .wmv files which are coded at 720p or greater.

Why I suggest this, is because scaling in and of itself can create "ghosting" artifacts as part of the process. Some scaling algorithms are better than others with respect to this.

ted

Troy

01-16-06, 01:55 AM

I don't have a pc hooked up.

rwestley

01-16-06, 07:02 AM

Troy, would it be possible to hook up the projector in a different room or to get a direct connection to the power box. I would also try to disconnect the input cable from the cable company and do a test. I am wondering if it is some kind of ground problem that you are having. I have a AE900 an I don't have any of the problems you describe. My picture is very sharp having focused on the menu items (small letters). I also am using an Oppo at 720P output.

altec604

01-16-06, 10:48 AM

I've watched roughly 10 DVD's movies so far on my Panny. The 900 is unforgiving for sure- crap in crap out. High quality DVD transfer in- output excellent, I go back to 'Galdiator' it looks excellent.

Well, I decided to hook-up my HD Comcast box for the NFL games over the weekend. Wow! I was blown away! No kidding! The Broncos game on CBS was outstanding! The color, detail and depth was truely amazing. I was shaking my head in disbelief. I'm just using a cheap matte white pull up screen and with 720p it's like the screen is'nt there.

Blu-Ray/HD DVD can't get here soon enough. Going back to 480p was a let down.

The WAF is on the up and up. She says, "you should get a screen that you can mount on the the ceiling and then you could put some crown molding around it(already have the molding up there). We can move the plasma to another room and you could make this like a media room". Yes, my wife's idea, though it has always been in the back of my mind. The AV Gods are smiling down upon me.

This PJ really demands 720p and once you see it you'll really be hooked- no VB what so ever, no grain. Really, just beautiful with 720p/1080i material.

Highside

01-16-06, 10:55 AM

mtnsean

01-16-06, 11:00 AM

I am on my second 900 having returned the first for ringing/ghosting issues and possibly misconvergence. I also received a Oppo DVD player to try on the replacement pj using the DVI to Hdmi cable. The replcement pj seems to be a little better after dropping the sharpening although the ringing is still there. The Oppo looks about the same so it didn't help any. This elimiates any issues with longer vs shorter cables, component vs DVI, my existing DVD player or the Oppo DVD player since the problem exists for all of them. It doesn't explain what is causing the problem. Strangely enough, while watching cable HDTV ("Contact" with Jodie Foster), I didn't see the ringing at all. It appears to be in the DVD and pj hookup and may suggest it not be the pj by itself. I am not sure where to go from here. I guess I will try different outlets on different circuits to power the pj and DVD player to see if that helps or perhaps buy a Monster power bar at BB to see if that helps. The pj does have an extension cable bringing it electric which could be an issue but then again why not durring HDTV and I did try the pj withoput the extension and the problem was still there? I would really like to solve this mystery quickly before I run up too many hours on this pj. I fear the problem may not go away with a different brand pj. Please give me some ideas on what might be causing this or things I should check.

I find the ghosting/ringing/edge enhancement to be very source-dependent, but I don't entirely blame the source. I think the Panny just isn't very forgiving in this respect. I can see the problem even with the Avia sharpness pattern, which should have no EE at all. With good sources, it is very tolerable (thought not entirely absent); with average sources it gets distracting.

Like Troy, I feel that the PJ could be sharper. I think this may be a case where Troy and I are towards the side of the quality control bell curve.

-Sean

Jim Cate

01-16-06, 11:24 AM

How much research did you do before buying a $2000 piece of gear? And how can you refer to the bulb as a "hidden" replacement cost? (I'm quoting from and referring to all your rants.) It is a major component. The equivalent in a car would be closer to the engine than the brake. Anyway, you'll not find any sympathy here, and certainly not with an attitude. mtnsean took a crack at trying to explain and you greeted him with something about "his problem." Good luck with your litigation; you just may win because the entire courtroom will be rolling on the floor after you state your case.

:mad:

Pepar, it's real interesting how defensive those who have bought a particular product quickly become when someone says something even partially critical about it. - You would think that I was criticizing your kids, or your religion, or your dog. I would have thought that frank and open discussions of varying viewpoints regarding both good points as well as potential problems rethe products and the way they are marketed would be welcome.

You need to go back and read the discussion again before you start popping off like that. - In the first place, I haven't bought a FP yet, though I am considering several. In the second place, I have done enough research over the past six months to understand the problems of high cost and limited life of the lamps, and the fact that the lamp deteriorates progressively over time, and the fact that you normally can't get extended warranty coverage on the lamp, and the fact that owners of the AE700 couldn't even get replacements for their units at any price, etc., etc., fairly well. Third, my analogy to the purchase of a car DID use engine replacement as an example, not brakes. In other words, you apparently want to censor me out of the discussion, but you don't even take the time to read what I said.

Regarding the degree of notice of the potential costs and problems, UNLESS YOU ARE A TECHIE WHO KNOWS WHAT TO LOOK FOR, the notices (by on-line dealers and on manufacturers' sites) about lamp costs, limited life, deterioration of brightness during that limited life, lack of warranty, are NOT spelled out in the promotional materials. Of course, IF YOU KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR, you already know what the problems are. And since the purchase of a FP TV is no longer an exclusively techie choice, and since existing TV's (95% of existing TV's) don't usually have such problems, it's still my contention that the manufacturers have a legal duty to warn customers of these problems and costs clearly and upfront. This is indeed a "hidden defect", in that the costs, the deteriation in intensity over time, the lack of warranty, ect., ARE NOT apparent from examining the units or from reading the typical promotional materials. - And simply including expected lamp life in a long list of technical specifications DOESN'T BEGIN to inform a potential customer about such problems. Legally, it's generally required that discussions of such hidden problems be highlighted and clearly visible from even a cursory overview of the written material in question.

Front projection TV's are being mentioned frequently these days in popular (not just hobbyist or technical) magazines and papers as viable options for home theater, and they are no longer exclusively a choice for techies or hobbyists. Of course, if you are a techie following these discussions on AVS Forum you can learn about such issues. - But studying the AVS Forum or similar technical material shouldn't be a prerequisite for purchasing a TV.

Jim

Troy

01-16-06, 12:10 PM

Jim, can we just move on? I think everyone has said their piece and lets just agree to disagree and move on. We aren't going to change anything and this topic shouldn't be in here since it is eating up valuable real estate and is really not specific to this topic. Having the last word doesn't make anybody more right. As I tell my kids, it takes two people to keep an arguement going and if you want it to stop, just keep quiet or agree. I guess we all need to just keep quiet and let it die.

Regarding returns after the typical 7 days or 4-5 hours, I have had a good experience with PP so far. I think they send it back to Panny marked as DOA. I had 80 hours (my kids used it a lot over Christmas) on my first one and more than 7 days when they exchanged it for a new one because of the ringing issue not being resolved. I have been careful to keep the replacement under 4 hours in all fairness to them, at least until I decide what I am going to do and have checked all possibilities that could cause the ringing. I may end up switching to a Z4 by the time its all over but they are tops in my book and I will try to do more business with them down the road as long as they are price competitive.

rwestley-I will try the cable disconnect as suggested and try moving the pj. Thanks for the suggestions. I do have faint horizontal scrolling lines on my upstairs TV on some crappy standard def channels which may indicate a ground loop fault that I haven't taken the time to fix yet since I rearely watch the stations it effects the most. This all is time consuming though and I really just want it to work right and my kids are tired of waiting for me to get it so they can use it.

mtnsean-we are in the same camp for sure. I suspect that there is something in general about the DVD to pj hook up that can't be eliminated by any of the components so it must be coming from the electric or something else interacting with it. I have probably become pickier over the years as my interest in home theater and photography grows, especially when forking out money for new equipment. If I had to do it over, I would have bought the 900 and the Z4 at the same time, stayed under the return policy limits and sent back the one I didn't like. I would also have not purchased it until after Christmas so my kids wouldn't want to run it so much before I decided to keep it. I agree the 900 probably shows more issues than a less expensive or older pj and is not very forgiving. I still find the picture a bit soft but perhaps so many parts of the picture are so good that it makes the lack of detail stand out, especially when blown up this big. After getting into home theater, I have also noticed that movies at the local theater aren't all that sharp either, but of course they are really big. Watching HDTV on the upstairs 60" LCD Sony is also a tough comparison regarding picture quality and ease of use.

I am glad others are having excellent results since it encourages me to find out the problem since I assume I may have to deal with it no matter what pj I end up with.

Highside

01-16-06, 01:10 PM

Regarding returns after the typical 7 days or 4-5 hours, I have had a good experience with PP so far. I think they send it back to Panny marked as DOA. I had 80 hours (my kids used it a lot over Christmas) on my first one and more than 7 days when they exchanged it for a new one because of the ringing issue not being resolved. I have been careful to keep the replacement under 4 hours in all fairness to them, at least until I decide what I am going to do and have checked all possibilities that could cause the ringing.

Troy,
You were able to send a PJ with 80hrs on it? Not that I would condone that but that's great that the dealer was STILL going to bat for you.

On a side note: Who is the dealer PP? or can you at least let me know where they are located? There are several dealers that have the initals PP and I'm wondering if it's the same dealer I am using.

Thanks,
Rob

bubbawilly

01-16-06, 01:12 PM

Back to the issue of the noisey fan. I too have the same type of slight grinding noise that re-occurs every 15-30 seconds and lasts about the same amount of time. It is a constant and repeating noise. when it stops all I hear is the quiet whisper of the fan, which is far more pleasant than the re-occuring grinding.

This is different than the normal click, click that is heard on initial start up. It doesn't seen to be associated with the dynamic iris as I have checked that like everyone else has. During my normal "action" movies it gets somewhat drowned out, but I find that with my wife, we are watching more "drama" movies and it is somewhat annoying with the quieter scenes.

I sent an Email to my dealer and he stated that this is a normal start up issue, but I don't think he's quite getting the "big" picture since he's not the one hearing it. He did state that now they have record of it if there are any problems with the unit. Let me state that I DO trust my dealer.

So my question is the PJ now has around 35 hrs and it's past most dealer's "non stocking fee" return time. Should I push(gripe) to my dealer more and maybe get a new one or maybe check with a service center and or send it back so my dealer can "repair" it?

I don't want to pay a 20% restock fee since my wife will say "Now how much more are you spending" and I also feel that my Pj was pretty "correct" out of the box.

I am also curious to the hours on the PJs that some of you sent back for new ones and did you have to do much griping?

Thanks a lot for the info,
Rob

I had this same problem. I didn't feel like it would get any better, in fact, I was concerned that it would get worse, so I sent my unit back during the evaluation period. This is not a "normal start up issue." The fan whining and the iris clicking are, and they stop after a few minutes. The fan grinding does not.

If I were you, I would see if your dealer will swap it out. Panasonic's policy with their dealers is that they will swap out defective projectors within the first 30 days, so your dealer has recourse, and so should you. I think that the hour limit most dealers impose is geared toward those who simply return the projector because they have buyer's remorse, or don't like the projector for some reason. A defect is an entirely different deal.

I did speak with the West Coast rep for Panasonic on this issue, so it will not be the first time that Panasonic had heard of it.

Troy

01-16-06, 01:36 PM

Troy,
You were able to send a PJ with 80hrs on it? Not that I would condone that but that's great that the dealer was STILL going to bat for you.

On a side note: Who is the dealer PP? or can you at least let me know where they are located? There are several dealers that have the initals PP and I'm wondering if it's the same dealer I am using.

Thanks,
Rob

I sent you an email with more details since some of this may be a bit confidential to my individual situation and not their standard policy.

cfjh

01-16-06, 02:25 PM

Hi gang.

I just recently got the 900, and I'm really pleased with it. Its my first projector, and the experience is thrilling. I'm viewing it on drywall for the moment, and it still is a great thing.

I concur with the notion that it appears slightly defocused to eliminate SDE, but I wanted to make sure that mine is working right. Would anyone be kind enough to post so pics of extreme closeups of the menu items, and other video items (like text under 1280x720 from a PC)? I'd like to make a comparison. I think mine converges just fine, but I want to make sure mine is up to snuff.

I am in an area without any retailers that carry them. I could drive 200 miles, but...no thanks.

Thanks for the help.

Jeremy

Porkchop

01-16-06, 03:23 PM

This was also posted in the AE900 tweaks thread. Sorry for the double post.

Hey guys...

Just recently got my AE900 and am running it off an Oppo player through a DVI to HDMI cable. The screen is Goo and the room is dark.

I hear so often in reviews and postings on this forum how great the black levels are on this projector, so I have to believe I'm doing something wrong. I threw in Revenge of the Sith and the black bars above and below the image still seem pretty grey, not that much more impressive than my old AE100. Space scenes don't look bad by any means; they're nice and sharp and colourful, but the black of space is still not even close to real black to my eye. I tried calibrating with DVE and the brightness level seems to be set properly.

I'm looking for any suggestions as to what I can tweak to get some better contrast out of this thing. I want to see these rich blacks everybody's talking about. One thought: I'm in Cinema 1 mode, and I read in some posts that other modes have better contrast. Is this true? Could that be the issue?

rwestley

01-16-06, 04:45 PM

Porkchop, check the tweaks thread.

steviec

01-16-06, 07:37 PM

These settings are for using the Panasonic AE900U projector with the Oppo dvd player that has the new D-1111B firmware.

AE900 AUTO IRIS ON /Noise reduction off , Overscan off, lamp power low, fan control normal.Sharpness off (-4), H-POS -33..... V-POS -4 in the option menu.

Picture menu
Contrast:0
Brightness:0
Color:0
Tint:0
Sharpness:-4

Gama
High:0
Mid:-1
Low+2

Contrast
Red:+1
Green:-5
Blue: +1

Bright
Red:-4
Green:0
Blue:-1

Oppo dvd player with firmware D-1111B
Sharpness off
CCS off
True Life on
brightness, contrast,tint,saturation all at 0.
Video 2(now superior to video1)
Noise reduction low.
*** IMPORTANT***
To fix the left shift of the picture using this firmware you have to adjust the H-POS to -33 and the V-POS to -4 in the AE900u option menu.

720P/60

65k for cinema 1

Troy

01-17-06, 12:07 AM

Not sure if anyone is interested but I am still trying to get rid of the ringing/ghosting on my second 900 with no improvement. Tried a new Monster power strip that is suppose to clean up the electric with no improvement. Unhooked the projector and Oppo DVD player and took them upstairs to a different room and plugged them in with nothing else connected. Just the two components and a DVI cable. Still has the problem. Even saw it a little bit on the Oppo's menu. One scene with a chain link fence (beginning of Bad News Bears) against a bright sky and you could clearly see the ghost of a second fence. I'm tired of trying. I think this one is going back tomorrow before I have more than 4 hours on it and have to pay restocking. I guess I will try a Z4 and see if that helps any. Any other pj recommendations are appreciated. I would spend more just to have a clean picture with good blacks and detail but can't do DLP, but thats another story. I am envious of those of you who have great pictures and are happily watching movies. Its late, guess I will sleep on it....

jazz_24_7

01-17-06, 02:03 AM

Not all 900s have the extreme ringing. One of the three 900s that passed through my hands had it and it was awful. I guess it depends on the dealer if they will swap it out until you get one that is acceptable.

iceman56

01-17-06, 05:16 AM

Well, after months of researching through the forum and other locations, I finally took the plunge and bought the AE900U. All I can say is WOW! I especially was happy with the ease of setup. I have the Avia disk but figured I would wait until I get my screen to go through the settings (I'm currently using a white sheet and it looks pretty damn good!). I used some of the settings posted in the tweak thread.
I just wanted to say "thanks" to all the members who post on this site. The information I read was invaluable in helping me make my decision. I will continue to read the forum and hopefully contribute as well!
Steve

scorky339

01-17-06, 12:38 PM

tvted

01-17-06, 12:53 PM

cfjh

01-17-06, 04:09 PM

Could someone please post a closeup screenshot showing good convergence and focus, for comparison?

Troy

01-17-06, 05:45 PM

One thing Troy,

Have you ideed confirmed this is a *display* issue by connecting the OPPO to another display? As I have stated upscaling *can* create this artifact.

An alternative would be connecting a different player to the 900.

ted

I started out using a progressive scan Panasonic through component cables(model RG62 or something) and had the same results. I bought the Oppo thinking it would correct the problem. Doh! Any other thoughts on it would be appreciated since I fear it may be system related and will do it with all projectors. Why is it some people using the Oppo are having great results and I am not?

I have a Z4 on the way and still have the 900, at least so far, so I may be having a shootout. :) Wish it were without the ghosting though. Can't really do much with the 900 now because I am at the limit, 4 hours, and they don't want me to put anymore hours on it if I am returning it. Once again, Projectorpeople has been great through all of this. Even shipping the Z4 by 2nd day air for free just to get my theater up again. Sure hope it works.

HTInProgress

01-17-06, 06:36 PM

I bought the AE 900 about a month ago (28 days to be exact) -- unfortunately I had to travel out of town and have not been able to fire it up until last night. I have to say I wasn't too impressed with PQ right off the bat - but then again, I don't think my source material was that great anyways. I was playing Independece Day on a Sony progressive scan DVD player which is hooked up to the PJ via component cables. The attached picture is a shot of the screen with both DVD and PJ turned on.

I read a lot about VB in this thread - but wasn't sure how exactly it'd look on the screen. Is that VB I am seeing in the attached picture? I have only two more days left to return the piece if there are any problems, I wanted to make sure there are no VB issues with this PJ.

Thanks
AN

bubbawilly

01-17-06, 07:01 PM

That doesn't look like VB. VB is much more uniform. Isn't that what the Sony startup screen looks like?

Do you have DVE or Avia? If you have either, display a 100% IRE field and check for VB there. You can then go into the extended menu and check the R, G & B panels individually.

thaxx

01-17-06, 07:02 PM

I'm curious if anyone knows what amount of misconvergence is acceptable. I've already returned one Panny 900 because it was so bad. The second one that was installed appears to be drifting and I only say that because when it was new it was fairly close and now with 100hrs on it the red appers to have moved quite a bit in two directions causing the image to look unfocusd no matter what I do. I guess I expected alot from this projecter since I replaced a Panny 500 that had none of the issues this one exibits.

I am having the exact issues your decribing.
When I first got the PJ the convergance was pretty good. Now, It seems to have driffed.
I just now fired up the pj, so I'll give it some time to warm up, since it was fully heated up when I first checked it about 100 hours ago.

After further review....
The convergance is much better after warm up.

HTInProgress

01-17-06, 09:21 PM

That doesn't look like VB. VB is much more uniform. Isn't that what the Sony startup screen looks like?

It may be the Sony DVD startup screen - will have to test with other inputs and see if I get similar results. But, good to hear that it may not be VB.

Do you have DVE or Avia? If you have either, display a 100% IRE field and check for VB there. You can then go into the extended menu and check the R, G & B panels individually.

I do have Avia - that was my next step tonight. I will run through your reccomendations as well.

Thanks
AN

scenaria

01-17-06, 11:10 PM

I am having the exact issues your decribing.
When I first got the PJ the convergance was pretty good. Now, It seems to have driffed.
I just now fired up the pj, so I'll give it some time to warm up, since it was fully heated up when I first checked it about 100 hours ago.

After further review....
The convergance is much better after warm up.

Hmmm I thought I was seeing things but the othernight I noticed some convergence issues while watching 24. I really dont notice any improvement when it warms up. Mine has definately drifted.. its at around 220 hours on the lamp right now.

scorky339

01-18-06, 10:13 AM

Hmmm I thought I was seeing things but the othernight I noticed some convergence issues while watching 24. I really dont notice any improvement when it warms up. Mine has definately drifted.. its at around 220 hours on the lamp right now.

I find this very disappointing since I started out using the Panny 500 last year and that has nearly perfect convergance even after 1500 hrs. Whats up with the quality control for the Panny 900?

jazz_24_7

01-18-06, 10:21 AM

Hmmm I thought I was seeing things but the othernight I noticed some convergence issues while watching 24. I really dont notice any improvement when it warms up. Mine has definately drifted.. its at around 220 hours on the lamp right now.

The green convergence and the green focus on my 900 has drifted off after 48 hours warmed up or not. On the other hand the red, which was out a little when new, appears to have drifted into convergence.

I will probably wait a bit and see about having it serviced. It also makes "the noise" when the iris is fully open on bright scenes. This noise is louder than the fan and not present on the previous projector. It sounds like a rotational noise but the iris obviously doesn't rotate. Odd.

Holograman

01-18-06, 11:34 AM

Hi there. Thanks to everyone who helped me here, I finally have the 900 installed and await only the Dalite HC Matte White screen, though projected onto an old and fold-ridden bedsheet it is already so good that everyone who watches is so engrossed they do not even knotice the bedsheet, so will likely be fantastic on the Dalite!

Below I will detail my screen decision for anyone who followed the questions on accoustic transmissive low end screens, for now I want to ask if anyone knows something about the connection differences I am experienceing. I have a new Pioneer 1015 (great unit), OPPO DVD, FOCAL SIB speakers (with BOSTON ceiling recessed center), and a motorallla set top box (awaiting the new Motorola HD box hopefully by the time the screen comes at the end of next week).

The one interesting thing that has occured that I have not yet figured out and maybe never will follows: When I set the PJ up on a box before mounting it, I had the OPPO DVD player next to it with a 3' dvi-hdmi cable and the picture was amazing, but I did not setup the component cables to try. Last weekend I mounted the PJ to the ceiling (again, the setup menu was soooo easy to switch settings!) and I have a cable that is 35' of both HDMI and COMPONENT but I did not have an HDMI/DVI adaptor so I began running it in Component (not realizing that the OPPO does not up-convert unless it is through HDMI. The picture looked amazing and I figured it would just get better, but when I then purchased the adapter and set it up and ran "switchover comparisons" between the Component and HDMI, the HDMI looks NOTICABLY WORSE THAN THE COMPONENT HOOKUPS! Unless I unhook the OPPO form the system and mount it termporarilly close to the PJ to retry the original HDMI, I have no way of knowing if the issue is the long HDMI run or simiply that the Component looks better to me. Besides the brightness, the picture form the HDMI seems a little fuzzier and I wonder whether the "up-converted" signal is actually worse for certain reasons regarding sharpness. Since I love the Component signal I will not likely spend a lot of time on this, though once my screen is in I will recalibrate and then maybe do the OPPO test as by then I will also have HDTV. I do have to say that the other posters were correct, standard TV signals, though fine to watch, are not in the same leage with the DVD even, and when compared with my XBR CRT the standard signal looks terrible - again fine on its own as only side by side comparisons can be truly accurate. ANY IDEAS ON THIS EXPERIENCE??

Regarding the screen, the only company to offer a low cost acoustic transmissive screen is Draper, and they seem to have a nice product. Unfortunately, they only offer it in tab-tensioned meaning upwards of $2,000 through an internet dealer. In these cases they offer either just the leader (which is what I would do because it seems that the lower cost AT screens have holes that let lilght through so important lumens are "lost" and also can have reflection off back surface, so best to ceiling mount speaker and use behind. In my case, I had the ability and decided to handle it another way by ordering a standard non-tensioned Dalite (Designer Control Electrol with IR remote) for under $800 delivered, and I purchased a signle upper-end BOSTON in-celing center speaker and mounted it just in front of the screen. The sound is great and I have no issue, actually it turned out to help my sound as the BOSTON is "brighter" than my FOCAL SIBs which is best for the center channel anyhow, and the 2 ohm difference seems to make no matter at all. Of interest, I have yellow walls (bright!) and a white ceiling, and I do not have complete light control though I rarely try to watch during the day anyhow.

Regarding the PJ, I can tell you that I wm overall SUPER IMPRESSED. It setup MUCH MUCH easier than I thought and even using advanced settings are relatively user friendly. I tested a half xosen screen fabrics and chose the High Contrast Matte White because the depth appearance from the contrast is for me more important than the snap from a full white 1.5 screen, and I am sure no-one will ever notice the difference in practice other than to love the picture! The Pani is awesome but is NOT a light cannon. It is fine to watch with room lights even on high, but it really shines when the room is almost completely darkened, at which point it feels litterally like watching in a movie theater, with better food, the ability to pause, and no-one throwing popcorn at me (well, sometimes my wife but then it comes IN THE BOWL!) ;-))

Thanks again and regards to all!! Happy Viewing...

Peter

Drothgeb

01-18-06, 12:27 PM

Hello,

I'm a newbie to the forum, but not to home theater. I've had the 900 for about 2 months and it's got about 125 hrs on it. It's my third projector and I'm very pleased so far. The projector is in a separate room shooting through a baffled opening in the wall. It's about 14' from a 110" Draper M1300 screen. Seating is 11'-12' away. The room is can be completely dark but, it does have light colored walls and ceiling. Right now I'm still using the PJ as it came out of the box

I bought the Panny because I wanted great color with no SDE. On both counts it's great. I knew it wasn't going to be razor sharp, but due to the lack of SDE, it was well worth the sacrifice. I looked at the Z4, and it was sharp, but the colors didn't have as much pop and I hated the SDE. So far mine is very quiet, theres no ringing and it's sharper than I expected. After reading some post on the AVS forum yesterday, I went home and used magnifying glasses to check the pixel structure. Convergence is off about 1/2 pixel. But, that depends on the area checked. The center was good, left side was blue and red, right side was green. It also depended on focus and lense shift. Something that everyone should also check is to make sure that it is exactly square to your screen. With the lense shift it's very easy to have it at a slight angle to the screen and use the lense shift to center the picture. That my be why mine doesn't have a consistant convergence issue across the screen. I'll probably double check my alignment this weekend. A service manual is available on ebay that shows how to make convergence adjustments if somebody wants to try. I've done it on past projectors but, I can live with a 1/2 a pixel.

Most of my viewing is from a HD source and I haven't watched a DVD yet. The image quality seems to vary program to program, even on the same channel. Some of the material that's on HD Net that was shot in IMAX, is simply amazing. Lack of sharpness is certainly not a problem. I'm not sure the 1300 is the best screen material to use. The grays aren't great, but the color is very good. I got a great deal on a tensioned electric screen and it will have to do.

I hope this helps someone looking at projectors. It sounds like there are some projectors out there with problems. But I'm sure that's the case with most manufactures.

mtnsean

01-18-06, 02:25 PM

jhlee_99

01-18-06, 03:43 PM

Troy, please keep us posted if Z4 is better.

I have the exact same ringing/ghosting problem with my 900. I'm using a Toshiba upscaling DVD player via HDMI cable. I tried all different type of movies to make sure it wasn't the DVD and also tried a 3' cable, but nothign helped. Yesterday, I tried hooking up my laptop which and played the same movie that showed a lot of ringing/ghosting using PowerDVD @ 800x600. I noticed that ringing/ghosting was much reduced. So, I'm going to try hooking up my desktop which is able to do 1280x720 and see if it's any better. I really hope it's the source and not the PJ cause I bought this November. Only 25 hours on it, but 2 months old already. My media room was under contruction for two months! Does anyone know if PowerDVD is a good player for th PC or something else? Maybe the Windows Media Player? I have no clue. I heard of something called ffdshow, but it doesn't work with PowerDVD.

Heboil

01-18-06, 04:27 PM

Looking for advice. I want to throw the image roughly 15 feet. My screen is going to be 106" diagonal. The top will be 2-5" from the 7'2" ceiling. I want the projector ceiling mounted. Will this work well?

eliocon

01-18-06, 04:56 PM

tvted

01-18-06, 06:49 PM

Hello,

ebay that shows how to make convergence adjustments if somebody wants to try. I've done it on past projectors but, I can live with a 1/2 a pixel.

Be aware that to make the required convergence adjustments a Service Kit is required - this allow for reconnecting the mainboard which has to be removed to access the optical block.

Here in Canada, Panasonic does not sell this part (nor the service manual). In the U.S. the policy might be different - if you find out let me know.

ted

bubbawilly

01-18-06, 07:39 PM

I know this question doesn't belong here but I can't find a thread for it so here goes... My 900 is ceiling mounted just slightly off center from the screen (about 4" off-center). I'm working out a way to re-mount it in the center but for now that's it. How do I get the projector flat to the screen. I have a slight horizontal keystoning I'm trying to get rid of but dang it I just can't seem to get it. Is there an easy way to know you're flat to the screen? Once again I'm sorry I posted this question here but wasn't sure where else to go.

Thanks guys!!

Elio

I'm sure you've done this already, but I use the blank blue background screen to align my projector to the screen. If the projector isn't perfectly square with the screen from side to side, then the side that is farther away from the screen spills over on my screen's border on the top and bottom. It will do this even if you shift the lens toward the opposite direction. If the projector isn't level, than either the top or bottom will be larger and spill over on the side borders of the screen.

I have a Perm-Wall screen with the fake leather looking border, so it is easy to see the image spill. A screen with a nice light absorbing border may be harder to align this way.

It takes some trial and error, but it is pretty intuitive as to which way to adjust the projector once you get the hang of it.

bubbawilly

01-18-06, 07:45 PM

I will probably wait a bit and see about having it serviced. It also makes "the noise" when the iris is fully open on bright scenes. This noise is louder than the fan and not present on the previous projector. It sounds like a rotational noise but the iris obviously doesn't rotate. Odd.

I have this also. 2 of the 4 900's I've tried had it, and the other 2 didn't.

What the hell is it? I've described it as a howling noise, and I assumed that it was the blades of the iris opening and changing the airflow through the projector, but that doesn't explain whay every 900 doesn't make the same noise.

I'm wondering if the iris servo is simply bad (noisy), just like there have been numerous units with bad fans.

Holograman

01-18-06, 08:05 PM

I have this also. 2 of the 4 900's I've tried had it, and the other 2 didn't.

What the hell is it? I've described it as a howling noise, and I assumed that it was the blades of the iris opening and changing the airflow through the projector, but that doesn't explain whay every 900 doesn't make the same noise.

I'm wondering if the iris servo is simply bad (noisy), just like there have been numerous units with bad fans.

I hope I don't have this issue. I have noticed quite a bit of noise now that the PJ is mounted to the ceiling and directly over the viewers, and it is in low lamp mode. I assumed it was normal, but it is a varying sound (not "on or off" the way I would assume the fan to be) that seems to get louder or softer depending on the scene. It is very noticable when the scenes are quiet, enough to be anoying to me though no-one else has mentioned it yet and I surely don't point it out. So many of hte reviews have said that in low mode the sound is almost un-noticable, otherwise I would think it were normal. I figured since it was only 5" from the ceiling maybe the sound refelcts down and it is normal but just a bad setup that maybe a piece of cloth at the celing would dampen...

Does this sound to you like the same thing? Everythnig else about this PJ is great thus far so I am reticent to return it unless I am very clear it is a problem and one that can go away... THANKS ALL... no-one responded to my HDMI vs. COMPONENT question either.....

mtnsean

01-18-06, 08:06 PM

I'm sure you've done this already, but I use the blank blue background screen to align my projector to the screen. If the projector isn't perfectly square with the screen from side to side, then the side that is farther away from the screen spills over on my screen's border on the top and bottom. It will do this even if you shift the lens toward the opposite direction. If the projector isn't level, than either the top or bottom will be larger and spill over on the side borders of the screen.

I have a Perm-Wall screen with the fake leather looking border, so it is easy to see the image spill. A screen with a nice light absorbing border may be harder to align this way.

It takes some trial and error, but it is pretty intuitive as to which way to adjust the projector once you get the hang of it.

I have my Panny sitting on a shelf on the back wall. I find it to be a real hassle to get everything re-squared up everytime I need to move it (to clean the filter for example - why did they design the filter so that you have to move the PJ to remove it?). The lens shift joystick is far too crude an adjustment - nearly impossible to make fine changes to it. I actually find it a little easier to make fine adjustments by moving the entire PJ. One of these days I'm going to bite the bullet and screw the darn thing down to the shelf so that I can always return it to it's previous spot after moving it.

Actually, speaking of which, does anyone have the exact type of bolt the Panny 900 accepts for a ceiling mount? I figure I can just buy a few bolts from Home Depot and drill a hole through my shelf, and bolt the sucker down from below. I looked in the manual but didn't see the bolt hole specs.

-Sean

WPF

01-18-06, 08:44 PM

Just got mine set up this past weekend. On the to do list is to bolt the Panny to the fixed shelf. I will let you know what the correct bolt is.

Does anyone know if there is a soft cover made for projectors?

thanks

simplton

01-18-06, 09:22 PM

Sean,
The bolt you're looking for is a M4. This is metric and the diameter and thread pitch is perfect.

later,
simp

scenaria

01-18-06, 09:37 PM

Based on being rather tech savvy ( albeit with audio hardware) but in anycase.. is the procedures for setting up convergence a very difficult task? assuming I have the service kit and manual..

mtnsean

01-18-06, 10:25 PM

Sean,
The bolt you're looking for is a M4. This is metric and the diameter and thread pitch is perfect.

later,
simp

Cool, thanks Simp.

Cozymandias

01-19-06, 12:19 AM

Quick question: does it go without saying that for best performance of your AE900 that you want a receiver capable of outputting the signal in HDMI?

Soundood

01-19-06, 12:22 AM

The one interesting thing that has occured that I have not yet figured out and maybe never will follows: When I set the PJ up on a box before mounting it, I had the OPPO DVD player next to it with a 3' dvi-hdmi cable and the picture was amazing, but I did not setup the component cables to try. Last weekend I mounted the PJ to the ceiling (again, the setup menu was soooo easy to switch settings!) and I have a cable that is 35' of both HDMI and COMPONENT but I did not have an HDMI/DVI adaptor so I began running it in Component (not realizing that the OPPO does not up-convert unless it is through HDMI. The picture looked amazing and I figured it would just get better, but when I then purchased the adapter and set it up and ran "switchover comparisons" between the Component and HDMI, the HDMI looks NOTICABLY WORSE THAN THE COMPONENT HOOKUPS! Unless I unhook the OPPO form the system and mount it termporarilly close to the PJ to retry the original HDMI, I have no way of knowing if the issue is the long HDMI run or simiply that the Component looks better to me. Besides the brightness, the picture form the HDMI seems a little fuzzier and I wonder whether the "up-converted" signal is actually worse for certain reasons regarding sharpness. Since I love the Component signal I will not likely spend a lot of time on this, though once my screen is in I will recalibrate and then maybe do the OPPO test as by then I will also have HDTV. I do have to say that the other posters were correct, standard TV signals, though fine to watch, are not in the same leage with the DVD even, and when compared with my XBR CRT the standard signal looks terrible - again fine on its own as only side by side comparisons can be truly accurate. ANY IDEAS ON THIS EXPERIENCE??

At 35', you are running up against the limitations of HDMI/DVI. There are few cables that can retain full picture quality at this kind of length. Only one I know of that can do it consistantly is the Wireworld Silver Starlight DVI which is certified to pass full 1080P at up to 50 feet without loss. You didn't say what cable you had, but I'd be willing to bet that is the culprit. Component is good for a lot more distance than HDMI/DVI which explains why it looked better when you used a 3' cable and why component looked better when you used a longer run.

fastal101

01-19-06, 12:28 AM

Reginald Trent

01-19-06, 02:29 AM

Have you tried setting the 900's aspect ratio to auto? What do you have your DVD player set for? 4x3, pan&scan, letterbox, 16:9? You might want to double check your settings on your DVD player and the 900's aspect ratio setting.

rotelryu

01-19-06, 04:52 AM

I hope I don't have this issue. I have noticed quite a bit of noise now that the PJ is mounted to the ceiling and directly over the viewers, and it is in low lamp mode. I assumed it was normal, but it is a varying sound (not "on or off" the way I would assume the fan to be) that seems to get louder or softer depending on the scene. It is very noticable when the scenes are quiet, enough to be anoying to me though no-one else has mentioned it yet and I surely don't point it out. So many of hte reviews have said that in low mode the sound is almost un-noticable, otherwise I would think it were normal. I figured since it was only 5" from the ceiling maybe the sound refelcts down and it is normal but just a bad setup that maybe a piece of cloth at the celing would dampen...

Does this sound to you like the same thing? Everythnig else about this PJ is great thus far so I am reticent to return it unless I am very clear it is a problem and one that can go away... THANKS ALL... no-one responded to my HDMI vs. COMPONENT question either.....

Well, could be due to the iris (my pj has the same howling sound, though I don't find it annoying or distracting) but for sure I have read (and experienced) that mounting this pj to the ceiling is causing the fans to cool at a higher rate, thus making more noise.
I believe it has to do with the dissipation of heat wich is more difficult to achieve at the ceiling. However, it is a preprogrammed setting. For instance: when I set the pj for "ceiling"the noise increases even if the pj is still shelf mounted (i tried this setting a couple of times to check for shading issues).

tvted

01-19-06, 08:25 AM

Based on being rather tech savvy ( albeit with audio hardware) but in anycase.. is the procedures for setting up convergence a very difficult task? assuming I have the service kit and manual..

Other than sticking sharp pointy objects into itty bitty spaces whiles there is electrical current flowing through the traces? Nope, nothing. ;)

The procedure is covered in the service manual. It requires displaying a grid pattern (available in the Service Menu) and adjusting the RED and BLUE panels in relation to the GREEN which is reference.

If you proceed you might also consider adjusting the mirrors which control the uniformity of the light that is passed to the panels.

ted

Sankar

01-19-06, 10:16 AM

The procedure is covered in the service manual. It requires displaying a grid pattern (available in the Service Menu) and adjusting the RED and BLUE panels in relation to the GREEN which is reference. ted

Where can I get a copy of the service manual from? :confused:

lax01

01-19-06, 10:20 AM

Other than sticking sharp pointy objects into itty bitty spaces whiles there is electrical current flowing through the traces? Nope, nothing. ;)

The procedure is covered in the service manual. It requires displaying a grid pattern (available in the Service Menu) and adjusting the RED and BLUE panels in relation to the GREEN which is reference.

If you proceed you might also consider adjusting the mirrors which control the uniformity of the light that is passed to the panels.

ted

where'd you get the service manual? Would you mine posting it for us?

nastyboy

01-19-06, 10:21 AM

Where can I get a copy of the service manual from? :confused:

He is refereing to the PT-AE700 service manual....

PT-AE700 SERVICE MANUAL (http://www.happyapplefarm.net/~avs/)

scenaria

01-19-06, 10:23 AM

is the service extender very expensive? I emailed panny but I have a feeling if I want a response I will need to call them...

eliocon

01-19-06, 10:26 AM

I purchased the PT900U before Christmas. The problem I have is the projector works fine on 4:3 images. But, when I come accross a 16:9 image it shrinks the picture down to the center of the screen with black banding on all four sides. I thought the projector was faulty and have exchanged it twice, same problem. I am hooked directly with component cables to the hdtv receiver and the DVD player. Panasonic reps weren't too helpful. Any ideas?????

The other issue you may be running into is DVDs that are not "16x9 enhanced" or "Anamorphic". Those DVDs (and Touchstone is a major culprit) are 4x3 images that are letterboxed as opposed to squeezed discs that use the dvd players circuitry to expand the image to fill the 16x9 screen. Warner Brothers released a few discs back in the day that were mislabeled Enhanced for 19x9 including "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" and "The Ninth Configuration". In addition make sure that your DVD player is set to 16x9 for the TV's aspect ratio.

Elio

tvted

01-19-06, 10:56 AM

As Nastyboy says .......
However the chassis for the 700 and 900 are essentially the same, particularily with respect to the optical block. The procedure is the same.

scenaria,

In the land up North, the Service Board (Part No. TZSH07017) is not available to end users - though I've tried on and off for the last six months. As to pricing, I've seen $60 U.S mentioned but I can't recall where - assuming it is available to end users in the U.S.

I'd imagine cables can be made if committed.

Opening the unit *will* void your warranty so be forewarned.

Frankly this kind of adjustment is not overly difficult to the knowledgable user - its another one of those questionable company policies. Probably national security or something. :rolleyes:

See attached

ted

jazz_24_7

01-19-06, 11:03 AM

Where can I get a copy of the service manual from? :confused:

The service manual for the 900 on a CD can be obtained on eBay as item 8734467058 for $12.50 including postage. I have just ordered one so I can't tell you any more.

scenaria

01-19-06, 11:04 AM

WOW! I just called panny... the service kit is $262 and all it really is.. is a handful of extender cables.

kind of crazy for some cables isnt it?

rghinton

01-19-06, 11:13 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if someone documented the calibration procedures with photos of the inside of the projector?

scenaria

01-19-06, 11:17 AM

well im thinking of a couple things that could save us all money...

If I were to pickup the service kit.. use it, then put it up forsale to another 900u owner in here.. less 20 or 30 dollars.. then they could use it.. and resell it to another owner at another reduced price of 20 or 30 dollars. so that essentially it might only cost each of us 20 or 30 dollars..

im hoping the panny lady was wrong on the price and the kit really is $60. they are suppose to call back and confirm that it works with the 900

jazz_24_7

01-19-06, 11:18 AM

I hope I don't have this issue. I have noticed quite a bit of noise now that the PJ is mounted to the ceiling and directly over the viewers, and it is in low lamp mode. I assumed it was normal, but it is a varying sound (not "on or off" the way I would assume the fan to be) that seems to get louder or softer depending on the scene. It is very noticable when the scenes are quiet, enough to be anoying to me though no-one else has mentioned it yet and I surely don't point it out. So many of hte reviews have said that in low mode the sound is almost un-noticable, otherwise I would think it were normal. I figured since it was only 5" from the ceiling maybe the sound refelcts down and it is normal but just a bad setup that maybe a piece of cloth at the celing would dampen...

Does this sound to you like the same thing? Everythnig else about this PJ is great thus far so I am reticent to return it unless I am very clear it is a problem and one that can go away... THANKS ALL... no-one responded to my HDMI vs. COMPONENT question either.....

So I did a little bit of experimenting last night with my PJ, the iris, and it's noise. The sound is definitely related to the iris somehow. With the dynamic iris turned off, the noise is annoying and constant regardless of the picture brightness.

With the dynamic iris turned on, the noise increases with screen brightness. Using the flat fields screens from DVE the noise goes from virtually none on a black screen to noisy on a gray screen to downright loud on a white screen.

Its also changes with the color of the screen. All blue is quiet but yellow is loud.

These observations are done with a static image so the iris should be fixed. So no motor should be in operation. The PJ is about 5 ft. behind me in a bookcase and on bright scenes it is defiantly distracting. It looks like I’ll be calling Panasonic support to see what they say.

jazz_24_7

01-19-06, 11:28 AM

WOW! I just called panny... the service kit is $262 and all it really is.. is a handful of extender cables.

kind of crazy for some cables isnt it?

The price seems typical from a manufacturer. This is probably handled as a replacement part by the sales organization which are always crazy expensive to an end user. Ordering through a sympathetic dealer probably wouldn't be any less since it's just a hassle for them.

jhlee_99

01-19-06, 11:33 AM

Does the warranty cover convergence? Mine only has 25 hours and both red and blue are quit a bit off, so text from a PC looks horrible.

scenaria

01-19-06, 11:34 AM

nastyboy

01-19-06, 12:18 PM

Does the warranty cover convergence? Mine only has 25 hours and both red and blue are quit a bit off, so text from a PC looks horrible.

I have sent back 3 units to Panasonic Canada for this exact reason. They cannot correct convergence issues only at factory can this be possible. They have replaced every sigle one! even with 68++hrs on it. Service is great @ Mississauga, Ontario...

tvted

01-19-06, 12:25 PM

WOW! I just called panny... the service kit is $262 and all it really is.. is a handful of extender cables.

kind of crazy for some cables isnt it?

:eek:
So much for my recollection. :o

ted

tvted

01-19-06, 12:37 PM

if the convergance process is rather simple.. how many in here would be up for a buy/sell kind of thing with the service kit? if theres around 10 then it would be worthwhile.. the only drag is it might take a few months for the kit to work its way to those at the end

I wouldn't say it is "simple", buy possible to the relatively experienced.
The bigger issue is warranty - which will be obviated.

ted

jhlee_99

01-19-06, 12:39 PM

I have sent back 3 units to Panasonic Canada for this exact reason. They cannot correct convergence issues only at factory can this be possible. They have replaced every sigle one! even with 68++hrs on it. Service is great @ Mississauga, Ontario...

So, is your convergence perfect or near it? I'm not sure what's acceptable amount of mis-alignment, if any.

minnegopher

01-19-06, 12:46 PM

So I did a little bit of experimenting last night with my PJ, the iris, and it's noise. The sound is definitely related to the iris somehow. With the dynamic iris turned off, the noise is annoying and constant regardless of the picture brightness.

With the dynamic iris turned on, the noise increases with screen brightness. Using the flat fields screens from DVE the noise goes from virtually none on a black screen to noisy on a gray screen to downright loud on a white screen.

Its also changes with the color of the screen. All blue is quiet but yellow is loud.

These observations are done with a static image so the iris should be fixed. So no motor should be in operation. The PJ is about 5 ft. behind me in a bookcase and on bright scenes it is defiantly distracting. It looks like I’ll be calling Panasonic support to see what they say.

I had experienced something very similar to what you described. From my viewing position approx. 5 feet from the projector, I heard a very distracting Geiger-counter clicking from the iris during bright scenes. Try viewing the Google homepage... and be prepared to go nuts. I lived with it for a few weeks, in agony. Then, one day during powerup, the iris failed. No light through the lens. I sent it in for warranty repair, where the iris assy. was replaced. Turnaround was close to 2 weeks. Hope this helps somehow. (Even though I'm sure that you don't want to hear that there may be something wrong!)

John Ballentine

01-19-06, 03:39 PM

I have my Panny sitting on a shelf on the back wall. I find it to be a real hassle to get everything re-squared up everytime I need to move it (to clean the filter for example - why did they design the filter so that you have to move the PJ to remove it?). The lens shift joystick is far too crude an adjustment - nearly impossible to make fine changes to it. I actually find it a little easier to make fine adjustments by moving the entire PJ. One of these days I'm going to bite the bullet and screw the darn thing down to the shelf so that I can always return it to it's previous spot after moving it.
-Sean

I cut a hole in my shelf that my Panny sits on w/ a jig saw so I could pull the filter down through the shelf for cleaning so I don't have to move the projector each time. If I ever permantely move the projector - I'll just replace the "cut" shelf with a new one.

thaxx

01-19-06, 05:31 PM

Other than sticking sharp pointy objects into itty bitty spaces whiles there is electrical current flowing through the traces? Nope, nothing. ;)

The procedure is covered in the service manual. It requires displaying a grid pattern (available in the Service Menu) and adjusting the RED and BLUE panels in relation to the GREEN which is reference.

If you proceed you might also consider adjusting the mirrors which control the uniformity of the light that is passed to the panels.

ted
The 900 does not have the same grid pattern in the service menu as the 700 does. The 900 has no grid pattern at all in the sevice menu, unless I've missed something.

bubbawilly

01-19-06, 06:45 PM

I had experienced something very similar to what you described. From my viewing position approx. 5 feet from the projector, I heard a very distracting Geiger-counter clicking from the iris during bright scenes. Try viewing the Google homepage... and be prepared to go nuts. I lived with it for a few weeks, in agony. Then, one day during powerup, the iris failed. No light through the lens. I sent it in for warranty repair, where the iris assy. was replaced. Turnaround was close to 2 weeks. Hope this helps somehow. (Even though I'm sure that you don't want to hear that there may be something wrong!)

I read a few reports of the iris clicking in early production units, but the noise that we are trying to describe and troubleshoot is different. It's not a clicking at all. It a kind of howling or low pitched screaching noise that appears with brighter content, and subsides with darker images.

tvted

01-19-06, 06:58 PM

The 900 does not have the same grid pattern in the service menu as the 700 does. The 900 has no grid pattern at all in the sevice menu, unless I've missed something.

Not in the extended menu with the individual colours and the flicker tweak? - hidden on the 700. Odd, it should be there somewhere, its fundamental to PJ alignment.

ted

Sankar

01-19-06, 07:02 PM

thaxx

01-19-06, 07:17 PM

Not in the extended menu with the individual colours and the flicker tweak? - hidden on the 700. Odd, it should be there somewhere, its fundamental to PJ alignment.

ted

Nope,
I was surprised too.
My 500 has it. The 900 has very limited info in the hidden menu.
My 500 told you how many times the projector had been started.
How many hours on the bulb (low and high mode)
and if the pj has been reset (hours) bulb change.
The 900 has none of that

tvted

01-19-06, 07:27 PM

Nope,
I was surprised too.
My 500 has it. The 900 has very limited info in the hidden menu.
My 500 told you how many times the projector had been started.
How many hours on the bulb (low and high mode)
and if the pj has been reset (hours) bulb change.
The 900 has none of that

Sorry to hear that - guess we have to rely on AVIA or DVE.
Are they trying to avoid critical users or has it been moved to another secret place? They certainly need to know bulb and reset info. Perhaps that's offloaded through the RS232 port. What happens when you change the bulb? Automatic reset?
Downer!

ted

thaxx

01-19-06, 08:03 PM

We can reset the hours to 0 in the regular menu.

Under."lamp runtime" highlight it and press enter for 5 seconds. It changes to reset ( or something like that) I don't have my pj on right now.
Then, power off the pj. It returns to 0 hours.
Strange I know.

KOYKOYRAKIS L.

01-20-06, 06:51 AM

Just got my new 900. The old one was returned due to a small panel misconverge problem. The new one DOES have it but on a smaller acount. I think i can say i'm going to have a really good time with this one. If only i can get rid of this iris blinking effect... :mad:

cfjh

01-20-06, 08:34 AM

I can hear that iris howling very slightly. I'm a brass player by trade, and it sounds familiar. It sounds like what air flowing through a chamber does when the chamber changes shape, sort of like blowing across the top of a squeezable bottle. My guess is that it is the regular airflow from the fan, and the change of sound is a change of harmonic content as the iris changes shape. Its like trying to fog up a mirror with your breath by shaping your mouth "hee" and then "haw."

Jeremy

nastyboy

01-20-06, 08:53 AM

So, is your convergence perfect or near it? I'm not sure what's acceptable amount of mis-alignment, if any.

No nothing is near perfect before I left the store I made sure the unit was hooked up. I checked the convergence via the menu screen (text) with the joystick centered it was bang on. As soon as you adjust the joystick it causes a slight convergence issue (blue) which inturn caused a vertical banding problem noticeable on solid blue screen (no video feed) I was able to tweak this out via the service menu by adjusting the blue panel from default value of 12 to 11.

bubbawilly

01-20-06, 09:49 AM

pepar

01-20-06, 12:25 PM

Pepar, it's real interesting .. But studying the AVS Forum or similar technical material shouldn't be a prerequisite for purchasing a TV.
Jim, I'm sorry I jumped on your posts.

The more time you sepnd on this forum, the more you will find how valuable it can be, both in learning about a product before you buy, setting it up or troubleshooting a problem if one arises. No matter how much one knows already about a particular subject, there is always more to be learned. Everyone overlooks things from time to time. What is obvious to some will be inobvious to others. And if a new member does a modicum of "due diligence" with the search function, almost any question will be answered, and usually quite cheerfully, by any member who feels that they can contribute.

Again, my apologies for not "contributing" anything to your situation. :o

inukshuk

01-20-06, 12:28 PM

byancey

01-20-06, 01:24 PM

after reading so many posts about the 900 i finally found a local place that had one set up

the 720 hd feed looked great and the dvd (batman returns) looked pretty awful, really soft

my question: is this inherent to the pj...dvd just looks a little soft...or does it need a lot of tweaking via the right player, cabling and setup to make dvd's look great, i was discouraged as my only use will be dvd watching and the hd stuff is still a year or two away (before they release enough titles to give me enough choice since i have about 300 now)

any thoughts on maximizing 480 dvd's via the 900 ??

Keep in mind that the HD source is actually providing true 720p whereas a DVD is only 480p and must be upscaled to the 720p native resolution of the projector. This upscaling will tend to soften the image. The AE900 does a "fair" job of upscaling, but you'll tend to get better results with an external scaler or a good DVD Player that can upscale. A lot of folks with the AE900 use the Oppo DVD to upscale. I personally use an HTPC with TheaterTek/FFDShow and get excellent results.

The quality of transfer of the specific DVD can also have an impact. In general, you'll be hard pressed to get a DVD to look as good as a true HD version of the same content. However, a DVD with an excellent transfer upscaled with a quality player can sometimes come pretty darn close. I watch mostly DVDs on my projector, and I'm continuously in awe of just how good most DVDs look. On the other hand, even the best upscaling DVD Player can't make a poor DVD transfer look "HD" good (especially non-Anamorphic transfers).

This is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to HD-DVD and/or Blueray...looks like it'll be a while before I'm playing either on my HTPC though. :)

--
Bryce

tvted

01-20-06, 01:58 PM

If I may add to an excellent post and suggest you enquire as to the various transports (connections) for each source. S-Video or Composite will not provide the best signal.

You might consider taking with you a DVD that you know, though I've read that "Batman Returns" is a good transfer.

ted

artimp

01-20-06, 02:11 PM

Highside

01-20-06, 02:19 PM

No nothing is near perfect before I left the store I made sure the unit was hooked up. I checked the convergence via the menu screen (text) with the joystick centered it was bang on. As soon as you adjust the joystick it causes a slight convergence issue (blue) which inturn caused a vertical banding problem noticeable on solid blue screen (no video feed) I was able to tweak this out via the service menu by adjusting the blue panel from default value of 12 to 11.

Could you elaborate on this a little bit further? I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the panel adjustment does.

Does it somehow eletronically "move" the panel?

If I change the value from 12 to 11 on the blue panel, what is it doing?

Sorry, I just can't quite seem to grasp this concept/function.

Rob

jhlee_99

01-20-06, 02:53 PM

nastyboy, I would like to know too since both red and blue is off on mine. Based on your post, my convergence might be caused by the joystick as well. When I first got my projector, it was used on a table and I thought convergence was near perfect. Now that it's ceiling mounted, the joystick is all the way down whereas on the table, it was mostly centered.

inukshuk

01-20-06, 04:28 PM

Keep in mind that the HD source is actually providing true 720p whereas a DVD is only 480p and must be upscaled to the 720p native resolution of the projector. This upscaling will tend to soften the image. The AE900 does a "fair" job of upscaling, but you'll tend to get better results with an external scaler or a good DVD Player that can upscale. A lot of folks with the AE900 use the Oppo DVD to upscale. I personally use an HTPC with TheaterTek/FFDShow and get excellent results. bryce, excellent points

i am going to order the oppo this afternoon as it seems to be a standout performer

i am also very aware of the differences in transfer quality

hd-bluray will solve this problem entirely, no doubt, the new dvd's will look outstanding on the 900...unfortunately it seems that before the players are out, priced reasonably and a decent number of titles available (i really don't see myself duplicating 300 titles just to have them in hd) it will be...say...12-18 months

i know that tosh is releasing an hd player in march for less than 500.. that is a good sign but it will still take a long time to get enough titles out there

i hope i'm wrong!

bubbawilly

01-20-06, 04:47 PM

I've watched Batman Begins on both a BenQ 7700, and the 900. I didn't notice any problems with image sharpness. The BenQ is pretty sharp for DLP, and the 900 is at least as sharp.

If the store was feeding the DVD player with component, then you will definitely get a sharper picture via 720P HDMI. If they were feeding it with anything less than component, then the image over HDMI will be significantly better.

jandawil

01-20-06, 04:52 PM

If the store was feeding the DVD player with component, then you will definitely get a sharper picture via 720P HDMI.

I don't find the differences to be that significant between HDMI and GOOD component cables. They are subtle IMO. But you never know how the store has it set up. If you look through this thread and others many people prefer component over HDMI. If the picture is bad with component, I would not expect just switching to HDMI to make it great all of a sudden unless there is something else going on with the component connection.

Troy

01-20-06, 05:52 PM

I just got the Oppo and cannot tell a noticeable difference between it and my Panasonic progressive scan. Think I'll send it back and get a HD player when they come out.

bubbawilly

01-20-06, 06:37 PM

The difference isn't dramatic, but the most discernable difference between the 480P component and 720P HDMI output from my Pioneer 59AVi is in the area of image sharpness. I do get a sharper image over HDMI.

I agree that it's not night and day.

blott

01-20-06, 06:46 PM

Can remember if this has been addressed in the past, but I was wondering if there's a discrete code for power off for the Panny 900. I know I can create a poweroff macro on my remote (which would basically be the power button followed by the enter button), but if I hit that macro button accidentally when the PJ is already off it'll turn on. I don't want to run the risk of accidentally powering on the PJ, so I'd like a disrete power off code. Does such an animal exist?

Thanks,
Sean

There are no discreet codes however a macro can be written that is a pretty good workaround.

Power On: "Power" followed by "Return"

Power Off: "Power" followed by "Power"

Make sure the IR signals you send are less than 1/2 second each because sending "Power" for more than 1/2 second will cause the projector to turn off.

I'm using a Pronto Remote and the above sequences work fine.

Bill

mtnsean

01-20-06, 07:58 PM

mtnsean

01-20-06, 08:17 PM

There are no discreet codes however a macro can be written that is a pretty good workaround.

Power On: "Power" followed by "Return"

Power Off: "Power" followed by "Power"

Make sure the IR signals you send are less than 1/2 second each because sending "Power" for more than 1/2 second will cause the projector to turn off.

I'm using a Pronto Remote and the above sequences work fine.

Bill

Interesting, thanks Bill. I should probably explain what I'm trying to do a little better. I want to have a "turn all components on" macro, and another for everything off. If one of the components is already in the desired state, I don't want to change it. My concern is accidentally turning the PJ on when it's off and I want to keep it off, or accidentally turning the PJ off when it's on.

A real world example would be when I'm listening to music via my DVD and receiver, but the PJ is off. When I'm done listening, I want to just hit the big Power Everything Off macro. I don't want that to change the state of the PJ from off to on.

All that said, if the PJ is already on and I hit your suggested power on macro, won't that turn the PJ off? And similarly, if the PJ is off and I hit Power twice, won't it turn on?

Thanks,
Sean

blott

01-21-06, 09:30 AM

Actually, the macros will do exactly what you describe. If the projector is ON and you send the "On Macro" it will not turn the system off. If the projector is OFF and you send the 'Off Macro" it will not turn on.

I'm using it for the same situations you describe.

myapplebuddy

01-21-06, 11:02 AM

No nothing is near perfect before I left the store I made sure the unit was hooked up. I checked the convergence via the menu screen (text) with the joystick centered it was bang on. As soon as you adjust the joystick it causes a slight convergence issue (blue) which inturn caused a vertical banding problem noticeable on solid blue screen (no video feed) I was able to tweak this out via the service menu by adjusting the blue panel from default value of 12 to 11.
So does this mean that it's possible to fix convergence issues using the service menu panel adjustments? If so, that seems pretty significant and no one is really saying anything about it. Am I missing something?

eliocon

01-21-06, 12:29 PM

Can anybody recommend a good ceiling mount for the Panny? Preferably one that can be adjusted to hang lower than the 6" mine is hanging now and can be easily adjusted for pitch, roll and yaw. I'd like to use a little less lens shift. Have a small amount of bowing at the bottom of the screen and it annoys me.

Thanks!!!

Elio

nastyboy

01-21-06, 01:29 PM

So does this mean that it's possible to fix convergence issues using the service menu panel adjustments? If so, that seems pretty significant and no one is really saying anything about it. Am I missing something?

No one cannot correct convergence via the service menu but they can do minor adjustments

nastyboy

01-21-06, 01:55 PM

This is the 4th 900 that I have now, checking out system temp notieced that the Iris is "OK"

Any Ideas why it would be a red ok?

Not having any luck with AE900, what a joke, got up today and my worries of the the iris failing has come true. It now takes 3-5 on / offs to get the projector going, sound familiar I know others have had the same issue and had to send their units back for faulty lamp circuits..

Wakefield103

01-21-06, 01:55 PM

I have a Z4 on the way and still have the 900, at least so far, so I may be having a shootout. :)

Troy,

We're all anixous to hear (well I know I am :D), did you get your Z4? Did it solve the problems you were having with the 900? Have you been able to do a A\B comparison?

PrimusSucks

01-21-06, 02:08 PM

In the event this isn't already buried in this thread somewhere...

HomeTheaterMag (http://hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/0106panasonic/)

"Adrienne Maxwell, January, 2006

What's not to like?

This may very well be one of the easiest reviews I've ever done. Within five minutes of watching HDTV through Panasonic's new PT-AE900U LCD projector, I was hooked. I fully expected, as the review process progressed, to have to play the standard "on the one hand; on the other" game we play with most mid- or entry-level projectors: On the one hand, this projector has nice detail; on the other, its color points aren't very accurate. On the one hand, this projector has a surprisingly good black level; on the other, it's so dim, even the LEDs on your A/V gear will wash out the picture. Happily, the other hand never presented itself here..."

George Montemayor

01-21-06, 09:33 PM

Interesting, thanks Bill. I should probably explain what I'm trying to do a little better. I want to have a "turn all components on" macro, and another for everything off. If one of the components is already in the desired state, I don't want to change it. My concern is accidentally turning the PJ on when it's off and I want to keep it off, or accidentally turning the PJ off when it's on.

A real world example would be when I'm listening to music via my DVD and receiver, but the PJ is off. When I'm done listening, I want to just hit the big Power Everything Off macro. I don't want that to change the state of the PJ from off to on.

All that said, if the PJ is already on and I hit your suggested power on macro, won't that turn the PJ off? And similarly, if the PJ is off and I hit Power twice, won't it turn on?

Thanks,
Sean

I made two macros on my MX-850 one for powering on all my devices and the other for powering all of them off. The "power all on" macro sends one remote code to the PJ and that is "Power". The "power all off" macro sends two codes to the PJ -- "Power", wait for 0.1 secs, then another "Power". I have always feared that the "power all off" macro can turn on a powered off AE-900 until I tried it tonight.

I found that if you send the PJ two "Power" commands in quick succession it will tell the PJ to shutdown, even if the PJ is already off. I was surprised to see the PJ's fans turn back on as if the lamp needed cooling down.

WPF

01-21-06, 10:45 PM

Watched my first movie tonight. I have a 106" diagonol screen about a 12' throw.

Progressive scan DVD player.

Saw lines that scanned vertically one red then another blue about a few seconds apart- contiued through out the movie.

Then I tried my comcast 1080i HD signal and also saw lines.

Do I need to adjust something or is there a defect?

Thanks for reply as I am new to this.

doug zdanivsky

01-21-06, 11:46 PM

I was thinking about getting this one..

Unfortunately I can't compare it with the Sanyo Z, but from what others are saying, there is a less noticable SDE with the AE-900, and I HATE SDE..

thaxx

01-22-06, 09:10 AM

WPF

01-22-06, 10:23 AM

Mike-

I just went to check out the cables. I grabbed a long S video cable I had. Yesterday I bolted the panny to the shelf I had made. I removed the bolts pulled the 50' component cable off. I decided to try putting the cable onto the 2nd set of component inputs. I turned it on but hadn't reset the input so I turned it off and plugged the components back into the primary jacks again. Turned it on and it is now working- no lines.

So I still don't know what is going on. Maybe the cables where not pushed in well yesterday after I connected them when I had finished bolting the shelf on?

I will keep you posted.

thanks

pepar

01-22-06, 10:59 AM

. . . .Turned it on and it is now working- no lines.

So I still don't know what is going on. Maybe the cables where not pushed in well yesterday after I connected them when I had finished bolting the shelf on?
Tee hee, been there, done that and nothing feels quite like the realization that one's connectors weren't properly . . . connected. :D

WPF

01-22-06, 11:04 AM

RATS-

I just turned it off for a little while-

Turned it back on and the lines are back!

I quess I will try the cable swap.

UPDATE-

I turned it off and then turned it back on again-

The lines are gone again.

What's going on??

Could it be the cables or is there a defect in the panny?

HELP

thaxx

01-22-06, 11:24 AM

Try wiggling the connections as you watch the screen, now it might be a loose or bad connection.

pepar

01-22-06, 11:29 AM

Try wiggling the connections as you watch the screen, now it might be a loose or bad connection.
Or even an intermittant connection INSIDE the cable where the wire connects to, or enters, the connector.

WPF

01-22-06, 06:40 PM

Well its not the cable-

I swapped cables and still had the scrolling lines.

I guess I call Panasonic tommorow-

frass

01-23-06, 10:41 AM

Just noticed I also have red "OK" for iris in self check.
Looks like I will have future problems also.
These things are full of bugs ? Maybe I should have went with Sanyo.

frass

01-23-06, 10:43 AM

Just noticed I also have red "OK" for iris in self check.
Looks like I will have future problems also.
These things are full of bugs ? Maybe I should have went with Sanyo.
Get the extended warranty!!!

Porkchop

01-23-06, 11:32 AM

Hey again guys, and thanks for all the advice on getting my black levels up to code.

However, even after trying all the recommended settings, I'm still not convinced everything's right. Let me ask you this... is there a way to test if the dynamic iris is working properly? When I display pure black, the iris should theoretically close down almost completely, correct? And then there should be very little light hitting the screen. But I swear there's still an unacceptable amount of light coming out of the lens, even on pure black. Is this the case with everyone's unit, or could there be something wrong with mine? Is there a way to test?

scotty144

01-23-06, 12:24 PM

Well I just took my 900 into the dealer today to deal with my intermittent lamp circuit issue.....they said the service dept would look into it and if they had parts in stock it would be between 3-5 business days...also, they would not loan out another unit in the meantime...not to impressed by that.

WPF

01-23-06, 09:06 PM

Well I have isolated the problem. When I remove the ground from the projector the lines stop.

The projector is far away from the other av equipment so I can not plug in there.

I don't want to use a cheater plug as a permanent fix.

How can I fix this ground issue?

Would a wire from the projector outlet ground to the av equipment ground work with out comprimising surge protectors etc? (i could snake such a wire)

any feed back is appreciated.

bubbawilly

01-23-06, 10:34 PM

WPF

01-24-06, 06:41 AM

I do have cable. I removed the coax cable and it did not remove the lines.

Sankar

01-24-06, 07:29 AM

If you were to run an extension cord from the av area to the PJ (and plug the PJ into it), does it help?
Try to see what is the minimum configuration that gives the ground loop. Specifically if you just have the dvd and PJ connected (and nothing else to them), is the problem still there. If not, then try just the STB and PJ (no cable). If a ground loop exists with just the PJ and one of these (and with the dvd/stb NOT connected to anything else), then a sturdy wire between the 2 grounds may help. If its coming when you connect an antenna (or cable to anything else in your system), then a wire between the PJ and AV may not help. In that case some kind of isolation will be called for.

Here are some links with info on ground loops
http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Ground-Loops/
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/

WPF

01-24-06, 10:03 AM

Troy

01-24-06, 11:27 AM

Troy,

We're all anixous to hear (well I know I am :D), did you get your Z4? Did it solve the problems you were having with the 900? Have you been able to do a A\B comparison?

I commented on this in the "Panny 900 vs Sanyo Z4" thread, post #76. It was so long I thought it best not to move it here. Bottom line is that I think either pj is a great choice and perhaps the deciding factors are really how close you sit to the screen (with no sde the 900 has an advantage here but only if you sit closer than 1.5 x the screen's width) and how the pj is installed (900 exhausts out the front and the Z4 out the side, which perhaps isn't as good for a bookshelf installation). I do believe the Z4 has a little more detail and punch but I am realistic in that the variables between the set ups could be tremendous since I am not a pj wizz kid like some here. I just wanted a good bang-for-the-buck pj that will likely be replaced in 3 years anyways with a better bang-for-the-buck pj. I must admit that in reading the major Z4 and 900 threads it seems like the 900 has a lot more issues (I experienced a couple of them) than the Z4 and the Z4 has the longer 3 yr warranty. I didn't know what it was until I read about it today but my first 900 had the the intermittent lamp issue as well. I just couldn't get it to fire up sometimes and thought it was me. It also had a very noticeable ghosting/ringing effect and was slightly out of convergence (according to the tech that I sent it back too). Life is too short so I am glad I went with the Z4 based upon my situation.

ProjectorPeople was great through the whole process (I tried 3 pj and kept the last one, the Z4). I haven't received the credit on the last 900 I returned yet (it takes a few weeks) but I received a full credit back on the first one I returned with no restocking fee even though they could have charged one. They really seemed to want me to be a happy customer and their tech was very helpful. He would email me return labels so I never paid for shipping the returns back and they would send the replacement pjs out quickly, getting here in 1 or 2 days.

jazz_24_7

01-24-06, 11:35 AM

I had complained in an earlier post that a 900 I received had terrible ghosting and retuned it for another unit that was much better in this regard. It was easily seen by displaying a convergence grid(I used DVE). There were distinct (but fainter) artifact lines parallel to the grid lines. I’ve been experimenting with settings on my current 900 and found that the flicker adjustment in the service menu can cause this to occur. Or can minimize it. The sharpness control affects the picture in a similar fashion. Since I no longer have the problematic PJ I don't know if it could be cured completely.

With my current PJ I can adjust it almost completely away. While the convergence pattern is displayed I went through all three colors and minimized the artifact lines. I then checked the flicker on a white picture. I can eliminate the flicker from red and blue but not completely from green no matter the setting. I’ve also fiddled with the panel adjustment but I can see no changes in the picture.

In any case my PJ is going to Panasonic in Heartland to hopefully have the noisy iris fixed and the screen color uniformity improved.

WSeattleGuY

01-24-06, 12:38 PM

I purchased my ae900 3 months ago and don't read this specific forum much anymore. However, I though I'd give my impressions after 3 months and 290 hours of use.

WOW! After tons of time calibrating, watching, recalibrating, filters, I've just been enjoying the last week or two. I have to say that this projector is awesome. Unless you get a defective product or are just WAY TO PICKY, this projector shoots an amazing image.

I watched a DVD called 'Adventures in Wild California' and the last few minutes of CSI Miami in HD last night and both were a pure pleasure. :D Amazing detail, spot on colors, great black level (dark room shooting onto grey screen). I am one happy owner. People that are picking this projector apart either are unfortunate to have a defective product, haven't calibrated correctly, or need to have realistic expectations. :rolleyes: This is a LESS than 2K projector now. I've watched about 6 or 7 projectors now and this is the best I've seen, LCD and DLP, low end and high end. The NFL playoffs have been the best ever. I'll never watch a SD NFL football game again. GO SEAHAWKS! SUPERBOWL BOUND FINALLY!

Troy

01-24-06, 01:03 PM

I am a firm believer in the fact that "happiness is wanting what you already have".

pepar

01-24-06, 01:38 PM

I am a firm believer in the fact that "happiness is wanting what you already have".
Ummm, yeah, you and Sheryl Crow. :)

pepar

01-24-06, 01:45 PM

People that are picking this projector apart either are unfortunate to have a defective product, haven't calibrated correctly, or need to have realistic expectations. :rolleyes: This is a LESS than 2K projector now.
At what price point should one expect enough quality control so that buyers don't need to try three or four before getting one that isn't terribly misconverged, afflicted with un-correctable vertical banding and/or an iris that is audible over the soundtrack? That any "good" ones exist means that the design is sound and that they could ALL be good; that they aren't all good reflects badly on manufacturing and QC.

WSeattleGuY

01-24-06, 02:51 PM

At what price point should one expect enough quality control so that buyers don't need to try three or four before getting one that isn't terribly misconverged, afflicted with un-correctable vertical banding and/or an iris that is audible over the soundtrack? That any "good" ones exist means that the design is sound and that they could ALL be good; that they aren't all good reflects badly on manufacturing and QC.

Sounds like your experience probably fits in the defective product category, hence the apparent frustration in your words. I'm fortunate enough to have a good one. When I first purchased my projector, I also picked it apart like crazy. 2k isn't that much money in the long run, but it's not chump change either. I wanted a good product for my money. I've come to the conclusion that I have a good product. Fan noise is audible but plenty quiet enough, iris is also noticable on VERY bright scenes, but picture quality is phenomenal. No significant misconvergance (less than 1 pixel in blue, unnoticable from > 3 feet), absolutely zero VB. I think the vast majority of people have similar experiences to me (see the current satisfaction survery).

byancey

01-24-06, 03:17 PM

If you don't mind me asking what HTPC do you use- I am new in the projector world and just got the AE900 -- should I get a dvd player or HTPC. I have heard alot of complaints with Oppo's lip synch issues and macroblacking or that would have been my choice. Anyone out there what works well with this projector????

Well, it's a little off-topic in the AE900 Forum, but here's what I've done.

My first HTPC was a system that I built myself using an ASUS Pundit-R barebone system. Here's the product link:

http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=1&l2=3&l3=0&model=85&modelmenu=1

I added a P4 2.5 Mhz processor, 512MB of RAM and a DVD RW drive. The advantage of this setup was that the PC was very small and very quiet. It fit nicely in the lobby of my Home Theater and didn't look like a PC. Here's a picture of the Pundit setup in my lobby (that's it on the right next to the LOTR trilogy boxes):

http://www.yanceyware.com/Family/HomeTheater/Lobby.jpg

The disadvantage of the Pundit was expandability. Although it does have 2 "full-sized" PCI slots, I found that many of the larger PC Cards simply wouldn't fit into those slots. I could not fit a SB Audigy Card into the PCI slots, for example. I was barely able to squeeze the ATI HDTV wonder card in, but it was a little too close for comfort. The much smaller Fusion5 HDTV card fit in easily.

I found the Pundit-R to be a very capable as an enhance DVD Player, providing the scaling and Aspect Ratio Control that simply isn't possible with a dedicated DVD Player. It had enough processing power to provide a reasonable level of post-processing via FFDShow, and easily put out a picture comparable to an expensive upscaling DVD Player or an external video scaler.

That said, it didn't meet the minimum specifications for some of the High Definition WMV-HD content that is available (although it seemed to play the demo clips just fine), and I wanted a little more processor overhead for post-processing as well as some added flexibility with respect to expansion cards. As such, back in November I replaced the Pundit-R with a Sony VCG-RB50 desktop system + an Nvidia GT-6600 Video Card. The specs on the RB50 can be found here:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=VGCRB50&Dept=computers&CategoryName=cpu_RBSeriesdesktops

Rather than throw that large PC on my counter in the lobby, I moved the PC back to the A/V room behind the lobby with my other A/V equipment, and installed the DVD drive in an external USB enclosure that sits on the counter in the lobby where the Pundit-R used to sit. Here's an example of a drive enclosure similar to the one I use:

http://www.meritline.com/tdk-5-25-usb2-0-firewire-combo-enclosure1.html

The drive enclosure is small and quiet, and allows me to move the noise and heat from the full-size RB-50 out of the area where we watch movies. I can still just pop a DVD into the USB DVD-drive and autoplay fires up the movie as normal.

Both of the Pundit-R and the RB-50 work great with the AE900. I just use a DVI-HDMI cable and run the HTPC in 1280x720 resolution to ensure a 1:1 pixel mapping for DVDs.

Hope this helps.

--
Bryce

pepar

01-24-06, 03:23 PM

Sounds like your experience probably fits in the defective product category, hence the apparent frustration in your words. I'm fortunate enough to have a good one. When I first purchased my projector, I also picked it apart like crazy. 2k isn't that much money in the long run, but it's not chump change either. I wanted a good product for my money. I've come to the conclusion that I have a good product. Fan noise is audible but plenty quiet enough, iris is also noticable on VERY bright scenes, but picture quality is phenomenal. No significant misconvergance (less than 1 pixel in blue, unnoticable from > 3 feet), absolutely zero VB. I think the vast majority of people have similar experiences to me (see the current satisfaction survery).
I don't own a Panny 900 and was just being the devil's advocate. I'm on this thread because I had been considering upgrading my Sony HS20 and, admittedly, have put my upgrade plans on hold because of the problems posted here. It was enough to "freeze my linebackers" long enough that now I'm waiting to see what new models are introduced.

pepar

01-24-06, 03:26 PM

The advantage of this setup was that the PC was very small and very quiet. It fit nicely in the lobby of my Home Theater and didn't look like a PC. Here's a picture of the Pundit setup in my lobby (that's it on the right next to the LOTR trilogy boxes):

http://www.yanceyware.com/Family/HomeTheater/Lobby.jpg
Gosh, you're right. It fits so nicely it actually looks like a microwave oven! :)

WPF

01-24-06, 09:24 PM

Thanks Sankar-

When I get home tonight I will try the extension cord. If that works then I will try the ground wire from the PJ to the AV equipment.

Hopefully that will work as it would be an easy and cheap fix. I would rather not have to buy a ground loop isolator. I have seen them from 60$ to $200 for the rating the PJ needs.

I will post my results.

Well the extension cord/ground wire to the av equipment did not work. I guess I can either use the cheat cord and unplug the PJ when I am not using it or get a ground loop isolator.

pepar

01-24-06, 11:04 PM

Well the extension cord/ground wire to the av equipment did not work. I guess I can either use the cheat cord and unplug the PJ when I am not using it or get a ground loop isolator.
Does your pj have a 3-pronged AC plug? If so, go ahead and lift the ground with a "cheater."

Capek

01-24-06, 11:21 PM

Great! Out of boredom I checked the status of my rebate today, and the eta has been changed from 4-6 weeks to 8-14 weeks from receipt. This sucks.

lax01

01-25-06, 12:42 AM

Sorry... wahts the link to check your rebate status?

Thanks

Capek

01-25-06, 03:39 AM

WPF

01-25-06, 07:56 AM

Does your pj have a 3-pronged AC plug? If so, go ahead and lift the ground with a "cheater."

The pj does have a 3 pronged AC plug.

If I use the "cheater" will the surge supressor still work?

rwestley

01-25-06, 08:15 AM

N9IWP

01-25-06, 09:57 AM

Right now I'd happy to have my rebate listed. Mine might be rejected since I sent in the form 1 month plus 1 day of ordering it (though less than a month from recieving it). I would think the rejection letter would have come by now though (since that has to be quicker than the rebate).

Brian

Sankar

01-25-06, 10:56 AM

Well the extension cord/ground wire to the av equipment did not work. I guess I can either use the cheat cord and unplug the PJ when I am not using it or get a ground loop isolator.

The cheater leaves your PJ (and you if you are touching it at the wrong time) unprotected ...
If you were to just have the dvd/stb and PJ connected (with nothing going in to the stb) does the problem go away? Start from there and work your way "upwards" connecting other cables one by one to isolate the issue. Ground loops are notoriously tough to isolate, but usually easy to rectify once the source is known.

jhlee_99

01-25-06, 12:44 PM

No one cannot correct convergence via the service menu but they can do minor adjustments

What does this exactly mean? My PJ's convergence looks horrible since RED is mis-aligned to the upper-left and the Blue to the bottom-right. I finally got my HTPC going with Zoom Player with ffdshow and WOW! the picture is so much better than the upscaling DVD player via HDMI (th HTPC connected via VGA cable). Anyway, now that source is awesome and clear, I can see the mis-converged RED. For example, if a person is wearing a white shirt, the upper-left edge of the shirt will show a slight hint of RED. This is really bothering me. I would prefer not to warranty it if all possible. Please post additional details as to how we perform this "minor" adjustments in the service menu. Thank you.

scotty144

01-25-06, 01:31 PM

What does this exactly mean? My PJ's convergence looks horrible since RED is mis-aligned to the upper-left and the Blue to the bottom-right. I finally got my HTPC going with Zoom Player with ffdshow and WOW! the picture is so much better than the upscaling DVD player via HDMI (th HTPC connected via VGA cable). Anyway, now that source is awesome and clear, I can see the mis-converged RED. For example, if a person is wearing a white shirt, the upper-left edge of the shirt will show a slight hint of RED. This is really bothering me. I would prefer not to warranty it if all possible. Please post additional details as to how we perform this "minor" adjustments in the service menu. Thank you.

Could you share your FFdshow settings with us. I am running my HTPC through hdmi and have been looking to optomize my setup.

jhlee_99

01-25-06, 04:20 PM

I'm actually using the settings posted in this guide. (http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=ffdshowdvd_4) Just the basic. My PJ has "halo" as well so too much sharping exaggerates this. I'm eager to try the "de-halo" script, but my HTPC can't handle it for now. The "halo" is really noticable from the Toshiba DVD player. With this setting it's much reduced, but still very noticable, espeically around opening credit characters. I'm hoping the "de-halo" will fix this. :D

The only setting I've changed from above guide is that I re-size to 1280x720p. To my eyes, setting it higher makes the picture softer and Panny already has too soft of a picture.

paul gibson

01-25-06, 04:21 PM

hi i own a 900 and am very happy my momitsu upconverting dvd player has just gone to heaven. i want to upconvert via component and wanted to know if any body has tried the new neodigits dvd player with the panny that pj central has just reviewed thanks

rwestley

01-25-06, 05:37 PM

The neodigits dvd player did not great reviews from most reviewers. I would get the Oppo. It works great with the AE900 and the company gives great support. It is interesting that Projector Central gives this player good reviews. (Check NON HD players on AVS fourm for other reviews) Most reviews have not been good for this player.

Reviews:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=635339

http://www.dvdtalk.com/features/004850.html

thaxx

01-25-06, 07:08 PM

It seems Panasonic is violating the terms of the original rebate contract by make us wait 12 to 14 weeks after it has been entered. I have the original contract and I may send a copy to the NY Attorney General's Office. I know Panasonic would love a class action suite where lawyers would make a lot of money and we would get a few cents extra in interest.

Their argument would be....
On the rebate form itself it states.
Terms and conditions can be changed at ant time by Panasonic.
I think it even says it can be cancelled

DodgeViper

01-25-06, 08:06 PM

I don't own a Panny 900 and was just being the devil's advocate. I'm on this thread because I had been considering upgrading my Sony HS20 and, admittedly, have put my upgrade plans on hold because of the problems posted here. It was enough to "freeze my linebackers" long enough that now I'm waiting to see what new models are introduced.

Pepar,

Like you I don't own the Panny AE900, fact is I have yet to purchase a projector. I was leaning heavily towards the 900 but with so many complaints and issues I have to rethink what I am going to purchase. I do not want to be some ones guinea pig and be the tester, I have done enough of that with MS Windows over the years. What I want is a working projector without the issues. Part of me wants to think that maybe the issues are caused by not properly being setup by the owners, but can there be that many bad installations? I have spent a great deal of time reading and obvious I have much more reading to do before the dough exchanges hands.

Jermmd

01-26-06, 12:15 AM

I haven't posted in this thread in a while and just wanted to say how happy I am with this projector. The color is outstanding and the picture is incredibly clear. I have had virtually no issues. It's whisper quiet, no VB/etc. and everyone who has seen it is just blown away. A steal for the price.

dan1887

01-26-06, 12:18 AM

Money is tight and I am trying to decide beteen the 700 and the 900. I just sold some old gear and have enough for the 700 without having to explain it to the wife. But the 900 looks pretty sweet. Is there much of a noticebale difference between the two. I will be throwing a 84" image 18' in a medium light room for home theater on a 4:3 screen. Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

doug zdanivsky

01-26-06, 12:20 AM

They are the same price (or, they should be), and the 900 is the latest model, and from all accounts a vast improvement over the 700..

ericsilv

01-26-06, 08:35 AM

my rebate is finally listed on site say 8-14 weeks. my first submission was lost in mail(lucky i sent certified) i needed to send copies. others who submitted late or other problems does yours say check payment. also any know about status of blockbuster part of rebate?

WPF

01-26-06, 10:25 AM

I'm also curiors about the blockbuster rebate. It says up to a 300.00 value.

I was wondering what exactly blockbuster rebate gives you.

rwestley

01-26-06, 10:42 AM

The Blockbuster rebate gives up to $300 in value. It could be much less.
40 DVD or Game rentals. If you rent movies only it is worth about $225 in my area. It is worth about $300 if you only rent games.

cpc

01-26-06, 11:15 AM

How are AE900 owners finding the colour uniformity? One of the major reasons I like the Hitachi TX200 is the adjustability of the colour uniformity.

lax01

01-26-06, 11:30 AM

Bigsmith

01-26-06, 11:39 AM

oh so you can't buy movies with it? well thats basically useless...

Not if you rent movies! 40 movie rentals aren't worth "$300" but they're not nothing either. It's a nice little sweetener.

BrianJP

01-26-06, 12:14 PM

The Blockbuster stores in my area said the rebate should be good for any merchandise in the store. Since I buy almost all my movies from the previously viewed sales at 3 for $25 I figure it should buy a little over 30 movies.

rwestley

01-26-06, 12:22 PM

It states on the terms and conditions of the rebate that it is a Blockbuster rental card worth up to $300. I don't think that it is good for purchases.

John Ballentine

01-26-06, 01:57 PM

They are the same price (or, they should be), and the 900 is the latest model, and from all accounts a vast improvement over the 700..

If they were the exact same price I would choose the 900 over the 700 in a heartbeat. But the difference between the two (to my eyes) is marginal at best (I've seen them side by side).

doug zdanivsky

01-26-06, 02:06 PM

Marginal is better than a kick in the slats, I always say.. :)

johnbe

01-26-06, 04:39 PM

http://www.panasonicconsumerrebates.com/

Seems very convenient, though of course our rebates aren't actually listed under the "Panasonic $200 projector rebate". Try checking under the "$10 Phone MIR". :confused:

Has the eta changed for everybody?

I figured to stop all the questions about the rebate I would call the people and ask. A nice lady told me that if it is in the system, you will get your check within 8 to 14 weeks. Closer to 8 but no guarantees. The 4 to 8 week period was not meant for this rebate. She said that check number that is listed was not really a check number but just a number they used to track it in their system. My number is listed as 12100366 and I was in the system on 12/23. I am curious if this is close to what others have. You can check yours against mine so everyone doesn't have to post their number. She was not sure how the blockbuster card was being handled because not every rebate included that in the deal. Also, she was not aware of the problem that you had to search a different rebate offer for this one to come up.

sfogg

01-26-06, 05:39 PM

Haven't read the entire thread but I have a couple of quick questions.

Anyone sit at roughly 1x screen width on a constant height screen setup for 2.35 material? Any problems with SDE... I'm guessing from the Smoothscreen this would be OK.

Is it possible to turn off the scaler in the unit and feed it odd resolutions via DVI/HDMI? For example 958*720 and just use those pixels on the LCDs?

The reason I'm curious about that is I have a constant height setup now and through a combination of scaling in a Lumagen and powered zoom move between the different ARs. Since the Panasonic doesn't have a powered zoom switching AR is more difficult as I won't have access to the projector. So I either need to work out a way of remotely moving the anamorphic lens or just leave it in place all the time and for 1.78 material 'shrink' the image by using less of the horizontal resolution of the panels.

Thanks,

Shawn

WPF

01-26-06, 06:13 PM

Johnbe I was wondering how long did it take after you mailed your rebate for it to show up in Panasonics system?

thanks

01-26-06, 07:25 PM

Pepar,

Like you I don't own the Panny AE900, fact is I have yet to purchase a projector. I was leaning heavily towards the 900 but with so many complaints and issues I have to rethink what I am going to purchase. I do not want to be some ones guinea pig and be the tester, I have done enough of that with MS Windows over the years. What I want is a working projector without the issues. Part of me wants to think that maybe the issues are caused by not properly being setup by the owners, but can there be that many bad installations? I have spent a great deal of time reading and obvious I have much more reading to do before the dough exchanges hands.

This gets brought up a lot here and it's worth bringing up again: A forum like this, dedicated to HT geeks like us, is heavily slanted towards "problems" since for the most part only people who have them post. The majority of AE900u owners aren't having issues and aren't posting here; probably because they are too busy enjoying watching movies with it instead of debating the difference between green gamma -3 and -4.

Check out any other thread on this forum. Heck, check out the thread on the $10,000 Sony Ruby. Everyone has complaints; that's just the nature of very picky HT geeks like us. Now if this thread was full - and I mean, mostly consisting of - posts about problems with the AE900u, or if there were whole threads dedicated to problems with the unit, that might be cause for concern, but is isn't and there aren't. For gosh sakes, Pepar's original post didn't make clear that he doesn't even OWN this projector - when at first read he appears to be "another" unsatisfied owner! He makes the claim about having to get "3 or 4" units in order to get "1 good one" based only on reading other opinions in this thread. That in my book isn't enough to make such a broad claim as that, not by a long stretch.

This is my long winded way of saying don't let this 1000+ post thread fool you in to thinking there is some epidemic of problems with this unit.

I don't work for Panasonic, nor do I work for the company I am about to recommend, so let me tell you what you should do if you are really this worried about Q&A: Order one from Projectorpeople.com, an AVSForum sponsor (click the link at the top of the page to get them so AVS gets credit). They recently lowered the price, and with rebate you can get this projector, shipped, for well under $2000 which makes it the steal of 2006 right now. Talk to Russ.

I did exactly the above, and as it turns out I did have a problem with my unit (how is that for irony) - a stuck pixel and a noise issue with the fan after about 10 hours use - and they shipped me out a new one overnight for no charge, and included a label for UPS to ship the old one back. This was after 24 days and about 18 bulb hours. If that isn't good service I don't know what is. Better yet, their customer support tech (Mike) pulled the new one out of the box and tested every input, checking for stuck pixels, VB, and sharpness issues, before he sent it out. You can request they do the same with a new projector too.

So if you are that worried about Q&A now you know what to do. For under $2,000 I haven't seen a projector come close to this one in picture quality - and believe me I have looked, the first "step up" from here that I found was the Optoma H78DC3 which is over $1400 more - and it is extremely flexible as far as mounting goes. I have mine on a rear shelf above my seating area, saving the need for a ceiling mount - try that with most other projectors.

scenaria

01-26-06, 10:46 PM

http://www.panasonicconsumerrebates.com/

Seems very convenient, though of course our rebates aren't actually listed under the "Panasonic $200 projector rebate". Try checking under the "$10 Phone MIR". :confused:

Has the eta changed for everybody?

Yep it was listed under the phone rebate.. hah! I think its because the projector is actually listed under commercial video products and not consumer.. apparently they dont have the projector under an official consumer catagory.. I found this out when I called about the service manual.

what really sucks is I sent my rebate in on nov 1st but they didnt enter it until the 23rd of december!

Status: Check Payment
Check to be mailed within 8-14 weeks of received date
Retailer:
Date Entered: December 23, 2005
Check Number: XXXXXXXXX
Current Dollar Amount: 200

johnbe

01-27-06, 02:35 AM

Johnbe I was wondering how long did it take after you mailed your rebate for it to show up in Panasonics system?

thanks

I mailed it in on December the 5th. Showed up on the 23rd.

beatboy77

01-27-06, 09:14 AM

For those that have the AE900, how does it do with handling ambient light? I will be projecting on to a Da-Lite High Power (2.8 Gain) screen with a fair amount of ambient light. I see the 900 is 100 lumens brighter then the 700. I am also considering the Epson 550.

~Josh

DB2

01-27-06, 10:19 AM

The rebate on the AE900U is now doubled. $400 in cash and $300 in Blockbuster rentals through Feb 28th.

pepar

01-27-06, 10:42 AM

pepar

01-27-06, 10:47 AM

The cheater leaves your PJ (and you if you are touching it at the wrong time) unprotected ...
If you were to just have the dvd/stb and PJ connected (with nothing going in to the stb) does the problem go away? Start from there and work your way "upwards" connecting other cables one by one to isolate the issue. Ground loops are notoriously tough to isolate, but usually easy to rectify once the source is known.
I question how unprotected one would be touching a plastic-cased projector w/o the third conductor grounded - even in a storm. Indeed, my projector has only hot and neutral conductors. Nonetheless, if a ground is present, it should be connected. Another way of dealing with ground loops is to lift the shield connection at one end of the signal cabling.

One more thought; do you have dimmers on your lighting?

jandawil

01-27-06, 11:43 AM

The rebate on the AE900U is now doubled. $400 in cash and $300 in Blockbuster rentals through Feb 28th.

WOW!! Where did you hear that? I haven't seen it on their website yet. Still says $200.

pepar

01-27-06, 11:53 AM

WOW!! Where did you hear that? I haven't seen it on their website yet. Still says $200.
They can triple it, but what good is it if they keep stringing folks along on actually paying up? :rolleyes:

Show of hands: Has anyone received their rebate yet?

01-27-06, 12:13 PM

It's not that there are complaints posted here; that's the purpose of this forum/thread. It's the many who've gone through TWO before getting the third unit that was satisfactory. And then there are the admittedly few who've gone though THREE before settling on the fourth. And one or two of those posters actually "settled for" the fourth unit as having less "issues" not no issues. It would be less disturbing if there were more posters with only one bad unit.

I've beat this drum enough and do not want to antagonize the members here. There are a large number of owners with no problems and are giddy with the incredible performance/value of the 900.

1x: I stand by my question: "At what price point should one expect enough quality control so that buyers don't need to try three or four before getting one that isn't terribly misconverged, afflicted with un-correctable vertical banding and/or an iris that is audible over the soundtrack?" It does not say I had three or four bad units, and the fact remains that some posters here DID. It's a fair question.

I agree it's a fair question, I never claimed otherwise:)

My point was to not use this thread as the definitive source on quality control for the unit. If you took every single instance reported here, and multiplied it by 10, you'd still have an extremely low failure rate overall. In threads like this it's easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees, as the saying goes.

I say this as a AE900ua owner who DID have a problem and is on his second unit, too :) As I said above, order from a good dealer like Projectorpeople.com and you'll do fine.