Oriphus, What screen and size are you planning to use? I need a recommendation (119" diagonal).
Thanks,Rick

No, I said it would likely have better ANSI CR in a light walled room and would also likely have better on/off CR with lights on than with a filter (but might not be at D65). "Better ANSI CR" and "Better" are not the same thing. The ANSI CR is just one parameter. The Graywolf has a kind of gray and white splotchy pattern to it that some will see and some won't. Because it is cheap I can overlook it somewhat, but it is still there.

--Darin

Thanks for clearing that up - I have been a committed dyi guy, but for the price of the gw is am tempted to try it along with my pj upgrade (something 720p in the next 60 days.) Pj is used for all TV viewing, mostly HD (sports/hbo), totally non-light controlled room. Frankly, ANSI contrast is what I am more concerned about with a D5 pj, coming from dlp, so to me, better ansi cr is better cr. Too bad TI isn't competing with the d5.

I didn't, but I have some numbers written down at home. The numbers with a filter would be lower, but in Normal mode without a filter and the lamp on high I recall averaging around 190 lux at screen level with a 90" wide image. That is 190 lumens per square meter. Going to Google and asking, "What is 90 inches in meters?" gives a response of 2.286 meters. Multiplying that by 9/16 gives 1.286 meters for the image height. Then 2.286*1.286=2.94 square meters. Multiplying that by 190 gives 560 lumens in that mode. That doesn't sound like a lot if a color filter and putting the lamp on low are going to end up at 200 lumens or so. I haven't tried low lamp mode though.
--Darin

Thanks Darin. It looks like the Panny 900 may not meet my needs. I use my Epson Cinema 500 in the Natural colour mode with the lamp at the highest setting. This gave about 650 lumens when the lamp was new. Now with 300 hours on the lamp, I find myself wishing for more lumens. Areas of improvement that I am looking for in a new projector include higher contrast, greater light output, and less screendoor. I am susceptible to eye fatigue with single chip DLP which rules out bright single chip DLPs such as the InFocus 7205/7210. The Sony Ruby sounds nice, but will most likely have inadequate lumens. The Sim2 C3X or InFocus 777 would fit my criteria, but I cannot justify the price given that they are 720P. I was hoping the Panny 900 would be a nice stopgap until 3 chip DLP came down in price. In any event I will probably try a Panny 900 in my HT to see how it works, but in the end it looks like I may keep my Cinema 500 for another year.

Has anybody really tested this projector up against the benq pe7700 or the optoma h78. If so how do they compare. I am looking to upgrade in the next month or so but, i am waiting to see if these new crop of LCDs hold up against the DLP projectors. Thanks.
-Chris

Has anybody really tested this projector up against the benq pe7700 or the optoma h78. If so how do they compare. I am looking to upgrade in the next month or so but, i am waiting to see if these new crop of LCDs hold up against the DLP projectors. Thanks.
-Chris

How close will you be sitting? If you can handle the screendoor and potential rainbows, then I would go for the H78 over the AE900 (Darin and I compared AE900 to H79). I felt that the H79 had better colors, contrast, and of course lack of any VB.

We will see how the AE900 looks after calibration though.

Has anybody really tested this projector up against the benq pe7700 or the optoma h78. If so how do they compare. I am looking to upgrade in the next month or so but, i am waiting to see if these new crop of LCDs hold up against the DLP projectors. Thanks.
-Chris

I'd be particularly interested in comparisons of the pe7700 and ae900 from an absolute performance point of view (ie. forgetting the rainbow/vb comments and assuming equal costs)

I am with ya, leave out the VB and rainbows and such. That would be great! :)

Anyone know if the AE900's lamp is the same one used in the 700 ?

How close will you be sitting? If you can handle the screendoor and potential rainbows, then I would go for the H78 over the AE900 (Darin and I compared AE900 to H79). I felt that the H79 had better colors, contrast, and of course lack of any VB.

We will see how the AE900 looks after calibration though.

Cool, I will be eager to see how the results differ after calibration. Rainbows don't bother me. The only thing that irritates me is contrast ratio. Colors don't have to be perfect. I just hate dark sceens and not being able to make things out. Thanks again.
-Chris

Anyone know if the AE900's lamp is the same one used in the 700 ?


They both use the 130W UHM, did you get it? Thursday you said.

Cool, I will be eager to see how the results differ after calibration. Rainbows don't bother me. The only thing that irritates me is contrast ratio. Colors don't have to be perfect. I just hate dark sceens and not being able to make things out. Thanks again.
-Chris

If contrast ratio is the only thing that bothers you, then I would go for the H78 myself.

Its here!!! My first projector, Looks great so far..but im going it such injustice by using composite cables as component, and shooting onto a dull gray cinder block wall. Cant wait to get to work on a light fusion screen. Then, Im going to paint the room a darker absorpent color, and install a heavy set of curtains to block out the window.

From a 19" tv with only an antenna in, to a panny 900...its nice to finally be able to use surround sound for more than a radio.

Next up, Hi-Def Dish Network install...

Even with the compressed Dish signal, HD will defeat your other sources.
So the best is yet to come.

Could you guys who have 900's now see how the image quality holds up zoomed all the way in (buggest picture)?

I would use it at its shortest throw and am concerned with loss of focus and chromatic aberration (color separation) at the edges.

If someone else responds, don't let that stop you, as there may be optical quality variation among units.

Oh, and while you're at it, could you measure the image width and throw distance? I believe throw ratios are only spec'd +/- 10%, and this could make or break my RP installation.

Thanks a lot

I have the numbers at home, but my memory is that the ANSI CR was around 340:1 and the ratio of just the 4 center rectangles (more like Greg Roger's modified ANSI CR test) was around 270:1. Those seem pretty good for an LCD.

Darin,

This may not be apples to apples since the review method was perhaps different from yours... the WidescreenReview of the H79 measured 370:1 (Greg Rogers was the reviewer). Those ANSI CR numbers for the AE900 you measured seem very impressive.

If they both use the same lamp, then is it possible that the AE900 will suffer a sudden light output drop at the 150-200 hour mark? I recall this happening with a lot of AE700s - was that attributed to the bulb or the projector?

And does anybody really believe ProjectorCentral will actually have a review up by the end of Friday? They never seem to meet the deadlines they set for themselves in their news updates...

This may not be apples to apples since the review method was perhaps different from yours... the WidescreenReview of the H79 measured 370:1 (Greg Rogers was the reviewer). Those ANSI CR numbers for the AE900 you measured seem very impressive.
I haven't calculated with the H79 just using the center 4 rectangles like this, but I did get around 500:1 with the full ANSI CR test with one. The outside rectangles have higher ratios, so my numbers for the inner 4 withan H79 would probably be close to Greg's.

I agree that those were pretty impressive for an LCD. It still has the lower static on/off CR that will come into play in quite a scenes compared to an H79 (I'm going by what I've seen, but haven't completely calibrated an AE900 yet), but still impressive.

And does anybody really believe ProjectorCentral will actually have a review up by the end of Friday? They never seem to meet the deadlines they set for themselves in their news updates...
I wouldn't be surprised if they make Friday of next week, which is basically what they said. I think having an extra reviewer (at least last time I looked) helps them get these out sooner.

--Darin

I wouldn't be surprised if they make Friday of next week, which is basically what they said. I think having an extra reviewer (at least last time I looked) helps them get these out sooner.

--Darin[/QUOTE]

I think they will have the reviews up for next weekend and I certainly appreciate that they will be doing them as a group of the projectors listed. That is really very useful considering the timing of the new releases. In this case only one of three is available.

Besides, the work is really excellent. I can't wait. :)

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

Oriphus, What screen and size are you planning to use? I need a recommendation (119" diagonal).
Thanks,Rick

Hi Rick, Im personally only going for a 77" diagonal screen, mainly because ill be less than 8 feet away from it and anything bigger would be too big for me to view comfortably i would guess.

As for the material, i am decided on the Perm-Wall fixed screen from Da-Lite and im still a bit torn between the following materials:

High Contrast Cinema Vision - 1.1 gain, a grey coloured screen
High Contrast Matte White - 1.1 gain, possibly gives the same contrast ratio as the Cinema Vision, but might stay more realistic with the birghtness and the whites.

Maybe someone can clarify the differences between these two screens and their recommendation on what one to get for the Pann AE900 in a light controlled environment and with the projector pointed directly at the centre of the screen from around 2.2 metres or so.

Thanks
Chris

I really don't understand why people pay money for a projector then buy a filter ? I have my Panasonic AE700 set to normal mode and haven't adjusted the settings too much and enjoy a great 106inch film experience, why use filters and the calibrated modes people talk about just leave me cold, why use Avia discs to calibrate ? why not use your eyes and trust your own instincts, if it looks good and you enjoy it then don't worry about what other people say and don't worry about contrast figures and brightness figures, just settle back and watch and enjoy.

The Panasonic AE900 looks to have made some good improvements to the model i have and i hope people get lots of enjoyment from it.

What you say may be true for some but for others the logic does not hold. You ask why calibrate and use a filter. Some of us are looking for the best possible picture out of our equipment. I would love you to try one of the disks and compare with results with just using your eyes. I was surprised how much a difference there was. I was also surprised with how much a difference there was when I used a filter on the AE700. It is your equipment and if you are happy leave you settings as they are. I would also try to understand why others are trying to get the best possible picture out of their equipment. "Trusting your instincts alone is not a scientific way of doing things."

I really don't understand why people pay money for a projector then buy a filter ? I have my Panasonic AE700 set to normal mode and haven't adjusted the settings too much and enjoy a great 106inch film experience, why use filters and the calibrated modes people talk about just leave me cold, why use Avia discs to calibrate ? why not use your eyes and trust your own instincts, if it looks good and you enjoy it then don't worry about what other people say and don't worry about contrast figures and brightness figures, just settle back and watch and enjoy.

The Panasonic AE900 looks to have made some good improvements to the model i have and i hope people get lots of enjoyment from it.


When i received my Panasonic PT-AE500, everything was far too green. I messed with the settings a good bit myself, but the vast majority of people cannot just play about with it and get it right.

In comes the DVE disc. Half an hour spent and the picture i got from the projector was soo much better than the one i had managed to get myself.

You have to remember, a projector comes from the manufacturer and is set to be used by all sorts of people, with all sorts of tastes, on all sizes of screens and in all environments. You talk about using filters and state that you dont understand why. Well, im someone who is considering a filter. I have a 77" screen and will be projecting from as close as possible. I will be projecting on to a 1.1-1.3 gain screen (havent decided yet) and it will most certainly be nice and bright. However, i believe that by using a filter, maybe not a Neutral Density on, but some sort of filter, that i can in fact still have the image at a decent brightness level, but get a better contrast ratio. This will work for me.

However, there will be other people with say 120" screens, gains of only 0.8 and possibly projecting from a table from distance. They may not be able to use a filter because they would need a larger amount of light because of the distance/size of the screen.

So, in reality, because everyone is different and have needs/tastes that are different, Panasonic cannot make a projector that is 100% suitable for everyone. They have made a very good one, that for most will be fine. However, some of us may want to go that step further and get brighter images, better colours, higher contrast ratio, darker images, etc etc... and thats where the AVIA/DVE discs and the filters come in to play....

Chris

Why use a filter and why calibrate? Not trying to sound harsh, but this is a hobbyist site for home theater. IMHO, being a HT hobbyist means (among many things) trying to eeek out the max. performance from your equipment, in other words tweaking. If you find that odd, then I'm surprised it's taken you this long to question "needs" of the members of this site. Why do you think they have all the settings on the projector to begin with...they understand it's not a "plug and play" device.

Ron

It looks to me like a color filter should be used with the AE900 to get the best CR since the red was pretty low in Normal mode. I ended up trying a CC30R combined with a CC10Y and Dynamic mode. I didn't measure the CR there, but it was probably higher than Normal mode because the peak white before calibration was higher in Dynamic than Normal (but with less red in Dynamic at 100 IRE). Also, video black was bluish before I added the filters. After setting up this way some of the midrange stuff looked a little too red, so I believe a calibration is in order. At least the AE900 has some gamma control in the advanced menu.

--Darin

Darin.

This is precisely the findings on the early evaluations that were done with the 700 - right down to black balance.

The low Gamma adjust seems to be quite good in that black point seems to be maintained well without interacting with the mid-level IRE's. I have a filtered 700 and generally run low gamma at +2 (effective gamma lower - I haven't calculated the curve) . I find it gives a somewhat better low black range (more film-like) without affecting black clip.

Looking forward to your findings.

ted

I agree that would be the best way to pursue it. Trying to hit the D65 target without a filter requires some drastic adjustments in Dynamic mode and even with Normal mode it's pretty extreme.

Mike,

Apologies if this is redundant.
Early calibrations with the 700 (and with Darin's comments - greyscale presets seems similar) determined that VIDEO mode was the best for filter calibration. I would venture that DYNAMIC has a pretty wild gamma curve - at least to my eyes with the 700 - and puts some of the adjustments at the extreme of their range. On the 700 VIDEO mode seems to provide the Gr & Bl gain with the deficiency in Rd without an extreme gamma. It allowed for enough range to optimize with an 81EF.

thanks for all your efforts (though I've no plans to purchase),
ted

I'll be receiving my 900 on Tue. or Wed of next week. Would someone please post a punchlist of things to do in the first hour while I can still return if necessary. I'm thinking things like checking for stuck pixals, and how to do that.

Thanks.

I really don't understand why people pay money for a projector then buy a filter ? I have my Panasonic AE700 set to normal mode and haven't adjusted the settings too much and enjoy a great 106inch film experience, why use filters and the calibrated modes people talk about just leave me cold, why use Avia discs to calibrate ? why not use your eyes and trust your own instincts.............


because human eye+brain is realy bad calibration equipment since they are easyly fulled (http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/colourPerception/colourPerception.html) .

My brand new Panny just arrived!!!!

I set it up in a temporary location and ran it for about 2 hours last night.

I'm happy to say I saw no evidence of any VB or FPN. I was intently looking for it for the first hour on several movies. Also, the contrast was great, although it does benefit from a dark room, but you already know that. I have not taken the time to calibrate yet and it still looks great. In fact I enjoyed watching so much, that I might not find time to calibrate. I haven't even put the batteries in the remote control yet, but I'm sure it will suffice. I didn't have any problems with the lens shift joystick, so that was good as well.

As reported in the forum, the picture quality on the Panny is fantastic. My wife was very surprised. I don't currently have a HD source, but intend to acquire soon. I was projecting on a primed 100 inch wall-board screen at this point with dark plumb walls all around. I intend to use a paint solution for a screen at this point due to my kids being ages 5 and 2. I'd hate to buy a nice screen only to have crayon or marker on it when I'm not looking!

Overall I'm very, very happy and impressed with the picture quality of my new Panny.

Oh, by the way... I got the 700 not the 900. Being a newbie, I decided to get a brand new 700 based on all the reviews. The posts here almost convinced me to spend the extra $700 and get the 900, but I'm glad I didn't. Now I've got a great projector plus an extra $700 to put towards new bulbs, equipment, etc.

I do want to thank everyone for their posts and commentary on this site. Very, very helpful and informative. You're excitement about HT is very contagious. I'm already excited about upgrading to C2FINE, and I don't even know what that is!!!

Final word: If you're a newbie like me, and on some kind of budget, don't be afraid to buy the 700. It is truly fantastic. Just go back and read the initial reviews when it first arrived on the scene. I know I'm happy, and I'm sure you will be too.

-Steve

I taught a Psychology course before I retired. One major unit was on perception. Yes the eye/brain is really bad at calibration. Thanks CROC your example is excellent.

Early calibrations with the 700 (and with Darin's comments - greyscale presets seems similar) determined that VIDEO mode was the best for filter calibration. I would venture that DYNAMIC has a pretty wild gamma curve - at least to my eyes with the 700 - and puts some of the adjustments at the extreme of their range. On the 700 VIDEO mode seems to provide the Gr & Bl gain with the deficiency in Rd without an extreme gamma. It allowed for enough range to optimize with an 81EF.

That all seems to be the case, though I'm looking at Normal for filter use. I took some measurements last night with each mode, in 10 IRE increments from 20 to 100 IRE. Lamp was on low. Setting it to High adds about 10% to the output. Only contrast and brightness was adjusted for each mode, otherwise the results are straight from the box. Gamma tracking is not great with any setting, though Cinema 1's the best. None of them (other than Dynamic) are wildly off though.

Normal appears to me to be the best candidate for a CC30R filter, with Video second. I may go back and play around with them a little, though I only have a CC20R filter to try at the moment.

Cinema 1

R%=96, G%=102, B%=100 at 100 IRE
Ave. color temp=6600
300 lumens

Cinema 2

R%=85, G%=104, B%=97 at 100 IRE
Ave. color temp=7000
325 lumens

Cinema 3

R%=80, G%=104, B%=105 at 100 IRE
Ave. color temp=8400
375 lumens

Video

R%=72, G%=105, B%=108 at 100 IRE
Ave. color temp=10,200
525 lumens

Natural

R%=91, G%=102, B%=101 at 100 IRE
Ave. color temp=7500
300 lumens

Normal

R%=76, G%=105, B%=105 at 100 IRE
Ave. color temp=9300
525 lumens

Dynamic

R%=70, G%=105, B%=108 at 100 IRE
Ave. color temp=10,000
575 lumens

A CC30R filter with Normal mode might just do the trick. I am disappointed at the lumen output. Given bulb aging, it is pretty evident that the Panny 900 will not fit my needs.

Talk about a bummer. There are bright single chip DLP projectors that offer less SDE and much better contrast than my Epson Cinema 500, however, I suffer eyestrain and get headaches from single chip DLP. The D5 LCD projectors are all probably going to offer less light output than my Cinema 500 (perhaps the upcoming Hitachi may be brighter). I could splurge for the upcoming Sony Ruby, but it will most likely have insufficient light output for my 10' wide Screen Research screen. The Canon SX50 offers a smoother image, higher resolution, and greater light output, but it has less contrast and requires extensive calibration in comparison to my Cinema 500. Then there is 3 chip DLP which has come down significantly in price, however, I am unwilling to spend that kind of money on a 720P projector which I will want to replace with 1080P in a year or two. I guess I will live with my Cinema 500 for another year.

They both use the 130W UHM, did you get it? Thursday you said.
Yes, it came late Thurs. Not a hint of VB.
Quick impression, there is a marked improvement in CR but the image seems a little softer than the two 700's I have here. Now don't draw any conclusions from that "softer" statement, I have not done a direct comparison with the two models running at the same time and with the same program material.

It seems the 900's "tech" sub-menu has dropped the crosshatch and some other patterns in favor of only a 0 to 100 IRE 10 stepped patten (one for each primary, not gray-scale). I hope It's just that I haven't found the internal crosshatch, without the built in crosshatch stacking is going to be quite a bit more difficult ...unless I had a second AccuPel that is:)(Tom).

For comparison, I get just about the same lumen output from at Toshiba MT700 or Optoma H31, so the AE900 fits right in with other projectors advertised at around 1000 lumens. It's plenty bright for me, but I've only got a 92" screen.

Mike,
My Epson Cinema 500 put out about 650 lumens with a fresh lamp and in the Natural colour mode which uses the internal colour filter. This was OK with a fresh lamp, but with 300 hours on the lamp I am wishing for greater brightness. I would really like to see at least 700-800 lumens with a fresh lamp which really limits the projectors to choose from.

I understand Scott, I was just trying to give others a comparitive reference.

The new Epson 550 or 800 should give you the output level you need, but we don't know for sure how good they are yet.

Yes, it came late Thurs. Quick impression, there is a marked improvement in CR but the image seems a little softer than the two 700's I have here. Now don't draw any conclusions from that "softer" statement, I have not done a direct comparison of the two models running at the same time and with the same program material.


From the Cedia info reviews I think someone said Panasonic had included adjustments for the Smoothscreen enabling you to sharpen the picture if so desired. I'll sift back through those and see if that's the case, then maybe we can find it in the menus somewhere.

The only adjustment I'm aware of is the Sharpness control, which is not specifically tied to the Smooth Screen.

UPDATE ON VB

After a few more hours on the 900, and with some minor adjustmesnts on the flicker menu(green) and minor on panel adjustments (green and blue, just one click lower on each) I am happy to report the VB is reduced to the point, that it really, in the grand scheme of things(ie: all projectors have some issues)is now nothing to loose any sleep over, or shouldn't be any deal breaker for those wanting to buy one of these. Is it (VB) still there, YES. Is it still bothering me, NO!. You can still "kind of" see it, every now and than, however is a much less issue for me , than say the screen door on a SONY HS 51, or any RB issue on a single chip DLP.

I am now using the "NORMAL" picture mode, and do prefer it over my previous favorite (CINEMA 2). Was able to reconfigure my DVD player,(wrong ire level was set),and now the picture really has blossomed. Over all color saturation, smoothness(this thing really does mimick a CRT look in many ways, and may be why some think it is a little soft looking. I personally don't think it looks soft. Just looks natural), and the lack of artifacts are really quite surprising for a projector in this price point. I just sold a very expensive 3 chip DLP, and, no I am not going to say this 900 is as good, or better, however, let's just say I am getting just as much enjoyment from watching it, as I did the 3 chip DLP.

CHEERS, TC

"I just sold a very expensive 3 chip DLP"// TC
....................
Which 3 chip did you sell ? If it starts with an "M" you ruined my day thank you.

Jimmy is the 900 still looking soft to you vs the 700?

Jimmy is the 900 still looking soft to you vs the 700?

I haven't done the side by side with two identical sources yet Tom. I have to cut and put connectors on a long sat cable so I can feed two (same) "D" HD receivers to the 700's and 900 at the same time for simultaneous viewing on one (split) screen.

I use my AE900 through a PC. Although DVDs look soft, I believe that is due to their lack of resolution given that HD does not look soft. The PC desktop looks very sharp. I'm actually amazed as to how sharp it is compared to the AE700 that I had. Yes a single chip DLP will be sharper, but what do you expect? :)

This is with the sharpness control turned down to the lowest mark. The zero setting still applies sharpening which I find annoying for PC use.

I use my AE900 through a PC. Although DVDs look soft, I believe that is due to their lack of resolution given that HD does not look soft. The PC desktop looks very sharp. I'm actually amazed as to how sharp it is compared to the AE700 that I had. Yes a single chip DLP will be sharper, but what do you expect? :)

This is with the sharpness control turned down to the lowest mark. The zero setting still applies sharpening which I find annoying for PC use.

I was just wondering about this and it's good you used the higher quality HD source for a comparison. I sold my AE700 but am waiting to see how more of the new competitors stack up. Otherwise I was going for the AE900. There's going to be more reviews on some of the other new Epson 5 panel LCDs this month.

Ok, As I said before, this is my first projector...but I have a question

I have been watching some movies, and just the regular startup screen on a blank wall, trying to get an aprroximate screen size i will need, At first i had it closer, and measured ~ 72" x30" which..is a 2.35 screen width. I thought maybe i was just doing something wrong, so backed it up to where i will be mounting, and again 96" x 40".....which is also ~2.35, from all my research i was anticipating a 96" x 54" @ 1.85 aspect ratio.

I knew the projector was able to do 2:35 i had read, but i thought it was a 16:9 native (1.78) ?? Is there a setting i need to change or something wrong? Im confused!!! I mean I enjoy 2.35 but was in the process of ordering a screen.

Ok, As I said before, this is my first projector...but I have a question

I have been watching some movies, and just the regular startup screen on a blank wall, trying to get an aprroximate screen size i will need, At first i had it closer, and measured ~ 72" x30" which..is a 2.35 screen width. I thought maybe i was just doing something wrong, so backed it up to where i will be mounting, and again 96" x 40".....which is also ~2.35, from all my research i was anticipating a 96" x 54" @ 1.85 aspect ratio.

I knew the projector was able to do 2:35 i had read, but i thought it was a 16:9 native (1.78) ?? Is there a setting i need to change or something wrong? Im confused!!! I mean I enjoy 2.35 but was in the process of ordering a screen.

This is a 16x9 projector. Something is certainly wrong. What are you feeding it as a source?

Assuming the zoom is not on, the most likely reason for what you're experiencing is that you do not have the projector squared with the wall you're projecting on. Try rotating the projector horizontally. If it's off, going in one direction will make it worse and going in the other direction will improve the aspect ratio.

Michael, make sure you source has it's aspect ratio set correctly, i.e. 16x9. Nothing to do with zoom or being off center from the screen.

I tried to take some photos of 700 vs. 900 but my damn camera doesn't like to focus very well on the images on the screen. All the pics came up little blurry so I decided not to post them. Sorry.

My opinion is still that if you already have 700, it is not worth it upgrading to 900. To be honest, 900 "straight out of box" is a little closer to satisfactory settings than 700, but after minor tweaks (they both need it anyway) both machines (brand new) look almost identical. 900 has slightly better blacks and 700 has slightly better sharpness. 700 I used for test has the latest firmware and has absolutely no VB while I had to tweak 900 "just a little" from flicker adjustment menu.

900 has much nicer remote control with learning for your other bits but in reality 700's remote works better beacuse you can point it to just about any direction and it still works.

Finally, my two cents on filters... I am 100% convinced that if you know how to use all of those colour brightness and colour contrast settings from advanced menu on both 700 and 900 you can mimic efect of any filter out there, but one thing for me that goes dead against filter use is loss of brightness.

Cheers

I have been watching some movies, and just the regular startup screen on a blank wall, trying to get an aprroximate screen size i will need

If you're seeing this problem on the startup screen of the AE900, it doesn't matter what the source is. Otherwise, your source settings could be the culprit.

"Finally, my two cents on filters... I am 100% convinced that if you know how to use all of those colour brightness and colour contrast settings from advanced menu on both 700 and 900 you can mimic efect of any filter out there, but one thing for me that goes dead against filter use is loss of brightness."//3D Quadrium
...................
You shouldn't be 100% convinced:), leave yourself a little wiggle room.

With the "proper filter" your end result can be more brightness than adjusting those controls without a color filter. Calibrating the (any) projector to 6500K or preferably D65 should be your goal when doing adjustments either with or without a filter. I'm sure you know, instruments and a color sensor are needed because our eyes just can't come close balancing six gray scale controls (not counting Brightness, Contrast, Color saturation and Tint).

If you're seeing this problem on the startup screen of the AE900, it doesn't matter what the source is. Otherwise, your source settings could be the culprit.
"start up screen".
Did he say that ?:)

"start up screen".
Did he say that ?:)

Yes. That's why I didn't mention the source, thinking it was the projector's startup screen. :)

wow, ok guys....forgive me for i have broken the first rule....measure twice

I was going by my pre-marks, I had marked in sharpie on my wall where i wanted the picture to be several months ago when i seriously started oogling the new projectors. Much did i forget i marked the wall as 96" x 72"...as i was going to MAXIMIZE my screen size, which would create a 120" 4x3 screen.

and whats this making fun of the startup screen?? did i miss something? ;)

*edit, so therefor all is right in the world, the 96" x 54" is what i have, and i cant wait to have a screen that size! the dull gray brick did help alliging and measuring though :D

You have to be careful, those Panosonic "start-up" screens are very confusing, especially the blue one's that can unexpectedly and without warning change size.

Finally, my two cents on filters... I am 100% convinced that if you know how to use all of those colour brightness and colour contrast settings from advanced menu on both 700 and 900 you can mimic efect of any filter out there, but one thing for me that goes dead against filter use is loss of brightness.

Nobody can get the on/off CR improvement at D65 that a filter plus proper calibation can. It doesn't matter how much you know, only a filter can decrease the blue and green for video "black" while allowing you to keep the blue and green in white high enough for D65. It just isn't possible to do this without a filter. You are right that there is some loss of brightness with a filter. At D65 it shouldn't be a lot, but if you are willing to have the picture skew somewhat toward blue or green or give up on/off CR you can definitely get more light through without a color filter.

For those who don't know why a color filter helps on/off CR at D65, the short version is that for a projector that is strong on blue and green you can electronically turn those down for 100 IRE, but this does nothing for the light leakage at video black since the projector is already doing about the best it can there. Leaving the blue and green fairly high (but not so high that they clip) electronically and instead filtering down decreases the blue and green both at 100 IRE and video black. So, more on/off CR if done right at D65 (balanced colors).

--Darin

Well, did you ever ask yourself could it be that there are some people out there who's eves are really wellc conected to their brain, and could it be that someone somewhere had to use some visual judgement to decide how to calibrate all of the gadgets we all use to perform our own little calibrations? Who is to say what's perfect???


Cheers

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

<<Well, did you ever ask yourself could it be that there are some people out there who's eves are really wellc conected to their brain...>>



Alright, dude, your optic nerves connect to the visual cortex better than anyone's...using proprietary cables, no doubt.



<<...and could it be that someone somewhere had to use some visual judgement to decide how to calibrate all of the gadgets we all use to perform our own little calibrations? Who is to say what's perfect???>>

If you mean, actually, "who's to say what's perfectly acceptible to YOU? No one but you. Regarding what's "perfect"...nothing. There are tradeoffs with everything. However, GETTING CLOSE to perfection, which many of us feel represents approaching the absolutely written-in-stone ideals of the NTSC and HDTV colorspaces (read up on SMPTE, NTSC, and ATSC, just do some googles) is a worthy pursuit, even given the limitations of bulbs, optics, processing, the chip technology used, etc.. If you can calibrate a machine to D65 by eye, you'll be in demand for parlor tricks among videophles the world over. You'll be a millionaire. Go for it.


Regarding calibration of the test equipment, there's no visual judgement to it. They're all quantified according to known, static, universally agreed, values. Take a physics class. Read any of Ultimate A/V's excellent colorimetry explanations for intelligent laymen: (http://www.guidetohometheater.com).

Now. Until you get some of that in your noggin (wow, is there any room left, with those huge optic nerve interfaces?), go play in traffic. The grownups are trying to have a serious conversation.

Yes a single chip DLP will be sharper, but what do you expect?


Is this true. I've always been lead to believe that an LCD projector will be sharper than a DLP, and have better colour representation, but cannot produce the black levels that a DLP can produce. I thought DLP images were softer?

Chris

Enough. NO ONE has the visual acuity to measure by eye greyscale and color balance. So drop it. If you're happy with the image you have, fine. That's your choice. But it doesn't mean you're right.

Is this true. I've always been lead to believe that an LCD projector will be sharper than a DLP, and have better colour representation, but cannot produce the black levels that a DLP can produce. I thought DLP images were softer?

Chris

You have it right Oriphus, LCD has had the edge on both color and perceived sharpness over DLP. Misinformation seems to flourish and grow here.

Where's the "eye" calibrator ? I believe in your superman abilities :).

I watched Empire Strikes Back on my new Panny 900 last night and it was spectacular. My comments are for the non-expert, average person looking at projectors. I have never had a projector before and I'm coming from a Toshiba 56H80 CRT HDTV ready RPTV. I'm projecting onto a 92" diagonal DaLite Cinema Contour screen and I have attempted no projector calibration yet. The movie was a DVD via component on a Toshiba player. I'll say it again, the picture was spectacular. It was absolutely crystal clear, I noticed no artifacts or distortions, and except for a very slight red tinge to flesh tones in a few scenes, the colors were right on. My room has excellent light control and that helps but this projector is a home run. I showed scenes from various movies to a group of my friends-none of whom are as obsessed with this hobby as we are-and they were all blown away.

So, If you're not going to stand up quickly during a certain scene while watching from 6 inches away, I think you will love this projector. If you are not going to buy multiple projectors and watch the same movie at the same time on multiple screens, you will not have buyers remorse. And you may be happy even if you do these things. ;)

How does the Panny 900 compare to the other projectors being discussed in this price range? I have no idea. My guess is the average person will be quite happy with any of them. Unless they are significantly cheaper then the Panny, they can not be much better IMHO. I'd like to see a Sony Qualia to see what a projector that costs 10X the price can do. How much better could it possibly be?

Oh, and the projector is super quiet. Noise is an absolute non issue. It's ceiling mounted right over and behind the watching position and no one notices the fan.

I'll say it again, the picture was spectacular. It was absolutely crystal clear, I noticed no artifacts or distortions, and except for a very slight red tinge to flesh tones in a few scenes, the colors were right on.

What picture mode are you using (ie: Normal, Cinema 1 etc)?

You have it right Oriphus, LCD has had the edge on both color and perceived sharpness over DLP. Misinformation seems to flourish and grow here.
Being that this is the AE900 thread, I would say this sharpness doesn't apply there. My H79 is definitely much sharper than the AE900. I believe the SmoothScreen is the reason and that puts the AE900 in a different group than most LCDs. As far as colors, I haven't gotten an AE900 really calibrated. So far I prefer the reds on the H79 by a long ways, but hopefully after proper calibration with a color filter the reds on the AE900 will look right to me.

--Darin

If you are waiting for a review on Projector Central you may have to wait a little longer.
I just email Evan asking when the review would be out and I received a response stating that there was some problem with the unit he had received and another is on the way. In fairness he did not want to make any other comments.

Stop the bickering!!! I do not want this thread closed down.

The best way to handle someone like 3d Quad. is to report him/her to the moderators. He's been warned, but persists. They can take care of the situation quickly.

Ron

close the thread?!? A primary thread for a major new PJ?!? due to one, newly registered Jacka@! ? :confused: How about if we all just put him on ignore - or better yet, use your moderation to eliminate the problem somewhat more surgically? If this guy is an a/v dealer, I'm Miss America.

Miss America eh? Any photo's lol. Im kidding :-)

You have it right Oriphus, LCD has had the edge on both color and perceived sharpness over DLP. Misinformation seems

That was what i believed originally and your comment backs that up. However, im a little confused by Darin now, not sure what he means.

Being that this is the AE900 thread, I would say this sharpness doesn't apply there. My H79 is definitely much sharper than the AE900. I believe the SmoothScreen is the reason and that puts the AE900 in a different group than most LCDs.

I believe that you are saying that the H79 is a lot sharper than the Panny 900. But when you say that the SMoothScreen is what is making the Panasonic be in a different group to the rest of LCD's, isnt it just as a combat to SDE, rather than sharpening the image? Im not really much of an expert on anything, but a bit of clarity on this might help me a bit.

THanks
Chris

I believe that you are saying that the H79 is a lot sharper than the Panny 900. But when you say that the SMoothScreen is what is making the Panasonic be in a different group to the rest of LCD's, isnt it just as a combat to SDE, rather than sharpening the image? Im not really much of an expert on anything, but a bit of clarity on this might help me a bit.

Yes, the H79 looks much sharper than the AE900 to me. The Smoothscreen is to combat the SDE, but I believe it takes away some of the sharpness on the AE900 I have. That is why I say it is different than most LCDs. They have more SDE, but I believe they also look sharper. As far as most LCDs (not the Panasonics) vs the H79, the LCDs are probably sharper in general, but it can depend on panel alignment also. The H79 only has one panel and so no panel alignment issues.

The sharpness differences between the H79 and AE900 are especially noticeable on text. The AE900 gives the text a more smeared look like CRTs to my eyes. And on a computer desktop it is especially noticeable with the desktop looking less sharp on the AE900. But on video this can be a good thing also since it smooths some things out. But with less sharpness.

--Darin

Cheers Darin, that clears it up for me. I understand that the SmoothScreen does soften the image slightly, thus helping to create the smoothness that the name implies. I do think this sounds like a good thing though qand any reduction in SDE is a good thing in my book. I for one am not really interested in how good text and other similar images look like on the projector as mine is used only for Movies. So, hopefully this will give me the image im looking for.

Chris

DARIN

I have two 900's at the moment. One looks noticeably sharper than the other. The sharper of the two, doesn't seem to smear the sharpness of text, like the other one. Having said that, even the softer of the two 900's looks good to me, it just takes some adjusting to it's "view" on reality. However, I do prefer the "look" of the sharper one. Would appear, that the application of "SMOOTH SCREEN" is some what different, from 900, to 900.

This is a very interesting projector, and I also have no color issues (my red's look very good, and are well saturated (and defiantly not "orangey" looking)

CHEERS, TC

It is interesting that one is sharper than the other. What about quality control?

Sharpness is important to me and I take notice if the images appear soft. Currently, I'm sending a 480i signal from my Pioneer to a Iscan HD+ upscaling to 720p feeding the Panny AE900. The image looks very sharp to me, but less of the digital harshness that I notice to some degree with my Yamaha LPX-510. I also see more detailed image too. I'll note that I didn't have but an hour or so to compare the two, so I can't offer a solid comparison only my short observations.

One comment on the smoothscreen, I am really impressed with the lack noticable pixel structure even close to the screen. I can't wait to spend sometime tweaking the 900 to max it's performance. IMHO, the price for performance ratio is pretty high.

Ron

Is it safe to say that the sharpness comments are all being made with respect to the HDMI input?

The HDMI input is considerably sharper than the VGA on my 700, 1:1 pixel-mapped. This is with quality RAM cables.

ted

In my case, yes everything is being fed via HDMI

What picture mode are you using (ie: Normal, Cinema 1 etc)?


I don't know the answer to this. Whatever the default via component is, I suppose. I'm going to Calibrate my speakers and the Panny tonight with Avia and I'll play with the various settings. Then I'll get back to this thread and report.

I'm so blown away by this thing that I just want to watch movies and sports with the family. I know calibration will help but it's pretty darn good right now.

For those with iScans and a 900 have you tried 48Hz refresh rate yet? If it doesn't work through HDMI how about through component?

Didnt i read that the iScan HD provides a similar level of up-scaling as the Panny already. I have read elsewhere that the built in up-scaler in the Optoma H79 gives a better output than that of an iScan HD?

This is with quality RAM cables
Im curious, for those of you who use high quality HDMI cables, has anyone done a comparison on the projector with different cables? I've just purchased a 7m QED HDMI cable to run from my Marantz DV7600 to the Panny 900. I could have gotten away with 5m but went 7m just in case. Is there any degradation of quality over a slight increase of 2m? I have read that anything over 7m does not conform to the HDMI V.1 standard - this true?

Also, when some of the more experienced users have finished calibrating their Panasonic PT-AE900, will they be posting the settings they changed and, if they used a filter, what type? This is so the rest of us lesser experienced enthusiasts can pick it up and get an awesome image...

Cheers
Chris

Also, when some of the more experienced users have finished calibrating their Panasonic PT-AE900, will they be posting the settings they changed and, if they used a filter, what type? This is so the rest of us lesser experienced enthusiasts can pick it up and get an awesome image...

Cheers
Chris

There is a separate thread started discussing tweaks for the 900...though no one has posted their settings. There have been some filter discussions.

Ron

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

What is the range on the lens shift feature? Can I mount the projector level with the top of the screen, and not have to use keystone adjustments?

Also, is there a manual available for download anywhere? I dont even see the projector listed on Panasonic's website.

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.
I just tried aspect ratio controll with 1280x720@60 input and it looks like it supports native and a horizontal stretching mode like you wanted for 4:3 material. I have no idea how well it works as I won't use it. Unfortunately, that is it and no stretching internally for anamorphic lenses with 720p input.

--Darin

What is the range on the lens shift feature? Can I mount the projector level with the top of the screen, and not have to use keystone adjustments?

Yes, you can have the projector lens positioned 13% of the screen height above the top of the screen. There's a picture from the original AE900 thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=43117


Also, is there a manual available for download anywhere? I dont even see the projector listed on Panasonic's website.

No, but if you download the AE700's manual, it's almost identical.

Regarding sharpness:

I can well beilieve a single chip DLP is sharper since there are no alignment errors. Who here has seen an budget 3 chip LCD projector where all three panels are perfectly aligned?

Secondly, I think I read somewhere that seeing screen door artificially boosts your perception of sharpness - it's similar to how edge enhancement makes you think you're seeing a sharper image.

Certainly when I put a pixel grid up on my AE700, the pixels seem very well defined indeed. What's not so well defined is the screen door - it takes on the colour of the neighbouring pixel.

So could this "sharpness" be simply an artifact of screendoor?

Yes, the H79 looks much sharper than the AE900 to me. The Smoothscreen is to combat the SDE, but I believe it takes away some of the sharpness on the AE900 I have. That is why I say it is different than most LCDs. They have more SDE, but I believe they also look sharper. As far as most LCDs (not the Panasonics) vs the H79, the LCDs are probably sharper in general, but it can depend on panel alignment also. The H79 only has one panel and so no panel alignment issues.

The sharpness differences between the H79 and AE900 are especially noticeable on text. The AE900 gives the text a more smeared look like CRTs to my eyes. And on a computer desktop it is especially noticeable with the desktop looking less sharp on the AE900. But on video this can be a good thing also since it smooths some things out. But with less sharpness.

--Darin
To whatever extent the AE900 is smearing wouldn't you be losing fine image detail that would inhibit the illusion of image depth?

I just tried aspect ratio controll with 1280x720@60 input and it looks like it supports native and a horizontal stretching mode like you wanted for 4:3 material. I have no idea how well it works as I won't use it. Unfortunately, that is it and no stretching internally for anamorphic lenses with 720p input.

--Darin
Does this mean that the aspect ratio is not locked when used with upscaling DVD players and HDTV? That is a change from all previous panny models...
-Matt

I am a newbie to Home Theater/ Projectors and have been gathering info from this forum and searching for the projectors for a few months now. I just purchased the AE900 last week and have overloaded on some DVD watching this weekend. The feature main that sold me on the AE900 for me was the ability to zoom and I could set it up on a shelf at the opposite end of the room 19’ and get a 80” wide image which was a limiting factor for the room. I was concerned with the noise factor with having a projector on an 8’ ceiling above my head but I now don’t think that would have been an issue since the AE900 is very quiet / almost silent. I don’t have the trained eye but after reading this forum I spent the whole weekend searching for Vertical Banding which I did not see. The only banding if that’s what it was, was when I was playing around with the aspect ratio settings while watching the Interpreter in wide screen format. I had it in zoom mode to fit the full screen area and I saw black horizontal lines during action sequences on bright objects. I did not see this in the 16:9 format. As far as picture/ contrast I am projecting on a white wall currently and in a dark room which looks excellent but will evaluate screen or paint choices. I had a hard time convincing myself to spend the extra money for the AE900 vs the AE700 I did get to view both side by side as well as a BenQ 7700 at Tierney Brothers since I live near Minneapolis and the contrast and black levels were not quite as good on the AE700. I have also got and extra set of component inputs and a learning remote for my extra money. I hope to participate more to the forum as I set up the home theater room and build an HTPC as money and time allow. Thanks for the information that is provided by all in the forum.

Does this mean that the aspect ratio is not locked when used with upscaling DVD players and HDTV? That is a change from all previous panny models...

Yep, but the choice they added was only a horizontal stretch from 4:3 to 16:9. I took a closer look and it looks like it is just a uniform stretch to me. I didn't try 1080i with this, but I'm guessing it has the same two choices as 720p.

--Darin

Cheers Darin, that clears it up for me. I understand that the SmoothScreen does soften the image slightly, thus helping to create the smoothness that the name implies. I do think this sounds like a good thing though qand any reduction in SDE is a good thing in my book. I for one am not really interested in how good text and other similar images look like on the projector as mine is used only for Movies. So, hopefully this will give me the image im looking for.

Chris

Personally the SmoothScreen seems to me, as a filmmaker, to greatly contribute to a filmic look to the image without an excessive digital look. On pixel generated material (video, PC, HD), it may have slightly less "snap" but it sure makes film sourced material look incredibly natural.

And I'm suprised how much detail the image reveals just running 480i component from a 8 year old Sony DVD sitting 12ft back from 92" image.

I have two 900's at the moment. One looks noticeably sharper than the other.

MRJAZZZ,

One of your 900's had some VB issues. Was that also the one that was softer? Thanks in advance.

Yep, but the choice they added was only a horizontal stretch from 4:3 to 16:9. I took a closer look and it looks like it is just a uniform stretch to me. I didn't try 1080i with this, but I'm guessing it has the same two choices as 720p.

--Darin
Thanks. Sorry to belabor the point but can you tell me how the project would handle, if it can at all, the following situations on an upscaling DVD player?

1. 4:3 content - When played through an upscaling player, it stretches it to fill the whole 16:9 panel and everyone is short and fat. Is there a way to make it 4:3 again?

2. Letterbox DVDs - When played through a upscaling player, again, it stretches it to fill the 16:9 panel which makes everyone EXTREMELY short and fat. What is needed here is not just 4:3 but a 4:3 ZOOM. This is available on 480p.

Thanks again.
-Matt

MRJAZZZ,

One of your 900's had some VB issues. Was that also the one that was softer? Thanks in advance.
Hmmmm.... MRJAZZZ's comments had me thinking that convergence might be the issue between the sharpness of his two models with the Smoothscreen masking outright objectionable convergence problems but instead manifesting itself as a softness (which I'm sure most users wouldn't complain to Panny about).

However, your comments got me thinking... Would VB be more apparent if convergence was off? You would be able to see the transition from band to band easier... no?
-Matt

I have not noticed any convergence issues,from either mis alignment of panels,or optical problems, on either unit.(I have yet to put up a convergence grid, to really check this out,however). I have had expensive single chip DLP's that have exhibitied optical problems, that manafested itself as a convergence issue. I find that alone(lack of these issues)in such an inexpensive projector quite an acomplishment.

Yes, the sharper of the two units, does in fact also have less VB (almost none), so perhaps there is some correlation there. I put the two units up last night on my larger screen (120" diagonal) and the unit that is softer looking, definatly doesnt look as good, or "clean" looking , at that size.

I continue to be surprised at just how artifact free this projector is. It's combinantion of decent on/off (some where around 2700, in the NORMAL mode, and very satisfactory ansi of over 300 (as measured by DARREN), with it's artifact free picture, is just a very pleasant surprise at this price point. I have had many more expensive projectors, over the past 12 to 18 months, that did not have as nice a picture. Superb buy for the money.

CHEERS, TC

For those who aren't seeing any VB or FPN on their new AE900, I'd be curious what would happen if they fired up an all green (then all yellow and light blue) screen using the projector's OSD (if it's available) or via a PC. Do you still see nothing but a crisp clean screen of color?

VB & FPN is my single most hated attribute of LCD's.

PS: Don't do this unless you #1) really want to prove you don't have VB/FPN or #2) want to see it from here on in.

For anyone discussing smooth screen, don't forget that the smooth screen is not adjustable, and that other projectors can achieve a "similar" effect simply by defocussing. Without smooth screen its up to the individual how "smooth" or how "sharp" you make your projected image, depending on how much you defocus or focus it. With the Panasonic lcd PJ's with smooth screen, if you find the image soft, you can't make it sharper if you want to. I for one am not a fan of smooth screen. Defocussing is a simple operation and produces essentially similar results to smooth screen, and its custom adjustable to suit the individual. I've seen smooth screen in action, and its ok I guess, but not for me.

Bottom line here, I'm not going to say that defocussing is identical to smooth screen. Bottom line is look at a smooth screen projector in action and compare it to one without smooth screen (with the same resolution of course). Remember that if you don't like smooth screen, you can chose a projector without it, and yet if you still see screendoor, you can defocus the image and do very well to remove screendoor. I am not alone in this view. Sorry I made it seem like I thought smooth screen was identical to defocussing. They aren't the same. Dare to compare for yourself.


The reports about vertical banding are generally not too bad so far. Most report not seeing it, and few report seeing it. Perhaps we should ask that everyone who gets an AE900 (or any new D5 projector for that matter)...take their projector and watch certain movie scene's with shots of blue cloudy sky, shots of the sea, shots of fog, shot of desert or a shot of a single coloured object which takes up most of the screen.

Glad to hear people are enjoying the AE900 so far :)

For anyone discussing smooth screen, don't forget that the smooth screen is not adjustable, and that other projectors can achieve an almost identical effect simply by defocussing. Without smooth screen its totally up to the individual how "smooth" or how "sharp" you make your projected image, simply by tayloring your focus. With the Panasonic lcd PJ's with smooth screen, if you find the image soft, you can't make it sharper if you want to. I for one am not a fan of smooth screen. Defocussing is a simple operation and produces essentially identical results to smooth screen, and its custom adjustable to suit the individual. I've seen smooth screen in action, and its ok I guess, but not for me.
I have an Panny L300u (AE300) and have seen other comparable projectors without Smoothscreen and, at least at 960x540 resolution, I can tell you that defocusing and what smoothscreen does is not even close to the same thing. I haven't seen an IMX lens in person but from what I read about what it does and what others have said, I think Smoothscreen would be much more comparable to a fixed setting IMX lens.

Is Smoothscreen for everyone, no. Does it improve picture quality, I think so. Does an IMX lens cost $500+, yes... any many were buying them for their Sony HS51s to make the SDE tollerable! To each one's own. I think it's a heckuva bargain.
-Matt

Thanks to all the members here and their exhaustive efforts in terms of reviewing this new panny. I have have been researching and deliberating the purchase of a projector for over a year.(my wife thinks i'm nuts) :p I have had my Firehawk screen for over 4 months with nothing throw at it.(unless you count the pathetic business projectors I brought home from work) MRJAZZZ couldn't have said it better......"superb buy for the money!" I am glad I waited a year(things really changed) however I am now looking forward to my new purchase. Thanks again guys!


p.s. I am still going to wait for the PC review. ;)

I have an Panny L300u (AE300) and have seen other comparable projectors without Smoothscreen and, at least at 960x540 resolution, I can tell you that defocusing and what smoothscreen does is not even close to the same thing. I haven't seen an IMX lens in person but from what I read about what it does and what others have said, I think Smoothscreen would be much more comparable to a fixed setting IMX lens.

Is Smoothscreen for everyone, no. Does it improve picture quality, I think so. Does an IMX lens cost $500+, yes... any many were buying them for their Sony HS51s to make the SDE tollerable! To each one's own. I think it's a heckuva bargain.
-Matt


Ditto your comments about the smoothscreen. I've used a IMX lens with one of my former projectors (Boxlight 13HD). I find the smoothscreen to improve upon what the IMX did for the boxlight. But, as far as a comparison vs defocusing the image...the IMX is a more accurate comparison.

Ron

For anyone discussing smooth screen, don't forget that the smooth screen is not adjustable, and that other projectors can achieve an almost identical effect simply by defocussing.
As has been explained about the IMX in the past, defocussing decreases the MTF in ways that the IMX doesn't and the same applies to Smoothscreen. What this means is that you lose real, distinguishable resolution (lower MTF) when you use defocussing to get the same amount of SDE reduction as these others give. The difference between defocussing a regular projector and the Smoothscreen on the AE900 is pretty clear to me just by looking at small text. While I believe that the Smoothscreen reduces the sharpness, I do not believe it is as much as defocusing would have to do there. Basically what others said.

--Darin

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

AE 900 Projector Central Review.

I may have posted incorrect information from a letter I receieved regarding the upcoming review on Projector central stating that there was something wrong with the 900 sample and it was being returned. It seems that Projector Central has asked for second samples to be sure that any strength or weakness is not specific to a sample. They will be doing this because there is such interest in their reviews of these new projectors.

Sorry for any confusion.

About the smoothscreen, could someone post a close up picture to get a good idea as to what to expect ? Video may not show it well but some graphics or text from a PC maybe.

If you are waiting for a review on Projector Central you may have to wait a little longer.
I just email Evan asking when the review would be out and I received a response stating that there was some problem with the unit he had received and another is on the way. In fairness he did not want to make any other comments.

Just wrote to Evan Powell to ask him if he'd identify the problem with the first 900 unit in his review. He asked me to correct the misperception that the first unit had problems.

(Quote)"...the AE900 that I currently have substantially outperforms the AE700 in all respects that I can think of. Reviewed on its own it would get exceptionally high marks.

However, I am planning to make some comparative remarks concerning relative strengths and weaknesses between the AE900, the Sanyo Z4, and hopefully the Mits HC3000. In this three way face-off, all three units have some interesting strengths that trump the other two, and all three have unexpected weaknesses that have surprised me somewhat. But none have been dramatic enough to warrant a return of the sample. To ensure a fair comparison, I have invited the vendors to supply second samples to verify that the first samples are representative of the product’s performance. Basically, I am just being extra cautious. If I find any remarkable differences between two samples of the same model, I will note them in the reviews" (end quote).

I'd sure love to see one in action. I'm still a bit sobered by the sudden and significant dimming that occurred at 120 hrs with my 700. I'd simply spring for another lamp if I could know that my case has been an anomaly, and not merely the normal degree of dimming of this particular model of lamp. I can't really justify $350 every 100 hours or so, but damn, that bright 100" image made me feel like a king. Hungering for brightness now, it would be very enlightening to see a side-by-side 700/900 BROKEN-IN brightness comparison. Often, when I hear of a new PJ model making the previous model look weak, I have to wonder how much the fact of the (probably) aged lamp in the previous model, and the blazing newborn lamp in the new one has been taken into account.

KongFan

P.S. Hey all, and especially rwestley, when reviewing this post, I just saw your post addressing the same matter of PC's 900 unit, so I'm being a bit redundant, but I suppose Evan Powell's quote is informative.

I just rented season 1 of the series "Lost". This series has FPN written all over it. Numerious scenes with panning across a light blue sky. Vertical streaks all over the place but especially near the upper, center of the screen. This FPN in my AE900 is absolutely the same as what I saw with my AE700. No improvement whatsoever.

Was there supposed to be some improvement in FPN on the AE900 ?

Does the AE900 use the same ceiling bracket as the 100/300/700?

For those of you that are feeding the AE900 from an htpc via HDMI, are you simply using any video card you happen to have, and setting the resolution to 1280x720? For HD content, do you seen an improvement for HDMI over SVGA?

Thanks.

I'm still a bit sobered by the sudden and significant dimming that occurred at 120 hrs with my 700. I'd simply spring for another lamp if I could know that my case has been an anomaly, and not merely the normal degree of dimming of this particular model of lamp. I can't really justify $350 every 100 hours or so, but damn, that bright 100" image made me feel like a king.

I also remember the euphoria I had when I got my Z2 2 years ago and how amazingly bright and punchy the image was. Mine also experienced the same plunge in the 100-150 hour mark. All of a sudden, it was dim and you have to use it in high bulb mode to be even remotely acceptable.

I just rented season 1 of the series "Lost". This series has FPN written all over it. Numerious scenes with panning across a light blue sky. Vertical streaks all over the place but especially near the upper, center of the screen. This FPN in my AE900 is absolutely the same as what I saw with my AE700. No improvement whatsoever.

Was there supposed to be some improvement in FPN on the AE900 ?

If you can't see any improvement then there isn't any.

Disturbing how variable the reports are.... are they unit to unit variations, or simply viewers who don't know what they are looking for? Or are some of the initial no VB/FPN reports based on cherry picked/hand-tweaked units?

- JP

Thanks KongFan for your post regarding the Projector Central review. I received a similar letter. I asked permission to quote it and I just received that permission. I think that a full review should be up in a few days. I am pleased that Projector Central is making the effort to review two samples of each model for their shootout.

"I understand there may be some confusion on AVS Forum regarding my comments to you below. To clarify, I have not returned the AE900, or any sample, due to any problem with it. In point of fact, if the AE900 that I currently have was being reviewed on its own, I would find that it is a substantial improvement over the AE700, and it would receive a very strong endorsement.



The situation is this – in the course of these reviews I am planning to make some comparative remarks concerning relative strengths and weaknesses between the AE900, the Sanyo Z4, and hopefully the Mits HC3000. In this three way face-off, all three units have some interesting strengths that trump the other two, and (since I wrote last) I find that all three have weaknesses that surprise me somewhat. However, none have been dramatic enough to warrant a return of the sample.



Due to the high profile nature of these reviews, and to ensure a fair comparison, I have asked the vendors to supply second samples so that I can verify that the first samples are indeed representative of the product’s performance. Basically, I am just being extra cautious before making any public statements. The problems and weaknesses that I alluded to below were in the context of this three-way comparison of three very good products, and none of them rise to the level of a defect in product design. However, I can understand how that may have been construed from the language in my note below. I should have been more careful in setting the entire issue in proper context.



Thanks again for your kind interest in these upcoming reviews. I hope you will find them informative and helpful."

"The situation is this – in the course of these reviews I am planning to make some comparative remarks concerning relative strengths and weaknesses between the AE900, the Sanyo Z4, and hopefully the Mits HC3000. In this three way face-off, all three units have some interesting strengths that trump the other two, and (since I wrote last) I find that all three have weaknesses that surprise me somewhat. However, none have been dramatic enough to warrant a return of the sample.

Due to the high profile nature of these reviews, and to ensure a fair comparison, I have asked the vendors to supply second samples so that I can verify that the first samples are indeed representative of the product’s performance. Basically, I am just being extra cautious before making any public statements. The problems and weaknesses that I alluded to below were in the context of this three-way comparison of three very good products, and none of them rise to the level of a defect in product design. However, I can understand how that may have been construed from the language in my note below. I should have been more careful in setting the entire issue in proper context.

Thanks again for your kind interest in these upcoming reviews. I hope you will find them informative and helpful."


I'm trying to make a final decision on an upgrade to one of the "new group", and have been waiting for some comparative reviews. But, especially after reading this I'm not confident in the objectivity of Projector Central. I know that they delete negative reviews of resellers that advertise with them, and so I don't believe that they will be completely blunt about problems they see.

Does anyone know of any other upcoming comparative reviews?

Thanks.

There have been some concerns about the objectivity before. The perception seems to be that Evan never met a projector he didn't like ;). That actually not fair, but it is the perception. I think they do a nice job with their write-ups highlighting the strengths of each model. I am concerned at times that they don't address the weaknesses in a significant fashion, but I don't know the motivation for that. Regardless, buying ANY projector based entirely off of what any site recommends, including this one, is a crapshoot. I'd never do it.

I'm trying to make a final decision on an upgrade to one of the "new group", and have been waiting for some comparative reviews. But, especially after reading this I'm not confident in the objectivity of Projector Central. I know that they delete negative reviews of resellers that advertise with them, and so I don't believe that they will be completely blunt about problems they see.

Does anyone know of any other upcoming comparative reviews?

Thanks.
I'm in the same boat as you (as are many others I'm sure! :) ). The only review I have seen so far on the AE900 appear to be from users and the initial one from ProjectorReviews. I have not seen the one that was promised by AVS here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6287119&&#post6287119) and am not sure if there is one coming up soon other than the one by ProjectorCentral (let alone a comparison with the Z4).

I had been holding out for the Epson machines (for the potentially higher brightness), but the initial review by Li On about the Epson machines appears not that promising. There is a chance that the Z4 with its 12bit processing may provide better colors than the AE900 (10 bit), but its iris performance is to be seen still. I think that I read somewhere (CineHome?) that its iris operation could be a weak point based on the way its designed. This is of course not confirmed.
Finally, the Sony is still vaporware in the US as far as I am concerned (you may think otherwise of course).

The buzz around the AE900 however sounds pretty good and I may just go with it. I am looking to project to a 120" screen in a completely light controlled room with gray walls, a light gray ceiling (and a fair bit of charcoal gray foam absorbers to darken them).

What conjectures can we make about the relative strengths/weaknesses of the Z4 and AE900 so far?

I am also in the same boat. I do think that Projector Central gives decent reviews. I based my previous projector purchase on their reviews. I think you sometimes have to read between the lines. See which projectors become highly recommended. See what weaknesses and strengths each has. I would like to also see information on VB, brightness, and contrast for each machine. I would also love to see a review on Cine4home compairing the 900 to the Z4. Evan did say that each has some weakness I expect and hope he will detail this in his reviews. It will also be interesting to see a shootout between the machines. I agree with MadPoet that you should not make a decision on any one review.

Anyone knows what screw size they use for the AE900 mounting holes? If not, do you know what size is for AE300 or AE700? I think they are all the same size.

Thanks for your help.

<<The sharpness differences between the H79 and AE900 are especially noticeable on text. The AE900 gives the text a more smeared look like CRTs to my eyes. And on a computer desktop it is especially noticeable with the desktop looking less sharp on the AE900. But on video this can be a good thing also since it smooths some things out. But with less sharpness.

--Darin>>

Darin (and anyone else who cares to respond!),

Would you mind elaborating a little more? I will want to use the 900 (or z4, etc.) to display the PC desktop; I already have a wireless keyboard, for example. Mostly, I will want to do a little gaming (some of the "Need for Speed" titles), and occasional surfing (AVS at 110", baby!).

Will the smoothscreen technology make such applications an unrealistic hope? Or, is text viewable (down to, say, 10 pts.) at 1X screen width (3 1/2 yards or so?), but just not as "sharp" relative to other LCD PJs?

TJN in Stereophile Guide to HT/Ultimate AV has often said that he believes that digital PJs "seem sharper" than, say, 9" CRT PJs, because of the pixel grid itself; i.e. our perception is swayed by the outlines of the fill spaces, esp. on horizontal and vertical lines (and, of course, text, etc.). Do you agree with this? And, if so, do you find it a "desirable" factor (e.g. it's not a bug, it's a feature!)?

Lastly, does the smoothscreen on the 900 merely "magnify" the center of the individual pixels to "stretch them in 2D," and therefore "fill in" the fill spaces/grid--yet NOT "step on" the adjacent pixels?

I guess one can't always have everything--e.g. no SDE AND good text legibility for PC apps. I'm trying to get a feel for whether the 900 will work for me, or if maybe the Z4 will be a better match considering all I want to do with the PJ. BTW: movies are, far and away, the primary reason for having a front projector in the first place, so, weigh that primary usage, if you don't mind responding. I am intrigued by the smoothscreen technology, and understand from some CEDIA posters (don't remember whom) that Panasonic "improved" the tech in the 900...e.g. perhaps responding to some consumer criticism about sharpness issues. I hope so. Yet, Jimmy and others have reported that that the 900 may look slightly softer than the 700. I'm slightly confused. (Or, maybe I should just chalk up such differences as a "wash," and just try to determine whether the 900 will work for me, oblivious to the 700 :) I will not be able to demo my purchase (in WV), before buying, so, I appreciate everyone's kind sharing of experiences!

Thanks,

willdao

If you can't see any improvement then there isn't any.

Disturbing how variable the reports are.... are they unit to unit variations, or simply viewers who don't know what they are looking for? Or are some of the initial no VB/FPN reports based on cherry picked/hand-tweaked units?

- JP

Good question. I wish one of the guys who says they cannot see any FPN lived near me. I would love to have a look.

I saw FPN on my AE700 before I read anything on these boards about FPN - so it's not something I just started to look for. It's very evident on sky scenes and somewhat noticeable on other scenes with a light background.

What I did learn on this board is that FPN differs from VB and what I'm seeing is likely FPN. My AE700 and now my AE900 didn't seem to suffer from VB. I never saw any improvement by disconnecting the power cord after turning off the machine. And I've seen no FPN improvement whatsoever going from the 700 to the 900. Quite dissappointing.

Is it possible that any of my cabling or other equipment could be causing the vertical streaking in sky scenes ?

For those who aren't seeing any VB or FPN on their new AE900, I'd be curious what would happen if they fired up an all green (then all yellow and light blue) screen using the projector's OSD (if it's available) or via a PC. Do you still see nothing but a crisp clean screen of color?

Yes, I've put up every primary and secondary color screen (with Avia Pro over HDMI), as well as just about every DVD scene that people have mentioned (fog scenes seem to be popular) and can detect no artifacts with my AE900. I have seen such artifacts with othe LCD projectors, so I do know what they look like. I saw a little bit of FPN with the M&C fog scene, but I had to put my nose up to the screen to see it. Also, I recentely adjusted flicker in the service menu and it's even better now.

Now, does this mean everyone that does see them is wrong? No, because I don't have their particular AE900, video source or eyes. Or, maybe I'm so used to DLP-related artifacts that I'm happy not seeing them. ;)

My AE900 was just taken right out of a stock supply, so there's nothing special about it. I will be getting an Epson for review at the end of the month, so we'll see how that compares.

Mike, I hope you will also be getting a Sanyo Z4 for review.

Here's the illustration image demonstrating SmoothScreen from the ae900 brochure on Panasonic's web site. I leave it up to those who have observed in person to judge whether this accurately represents what you see on screen.

jtv

Mike, I hope you will also be getting a Sanyo Z4 for review.

I'm trying, but it's not looking good. I may try to tag on to Art's (of Projector Reviews). BTW, my AE900's not a review sample. It was actually purchased. :)

Yes, I've put up every primary and secondary color screen (with Avia Pro over HDMI), as well as just about every DVD scene that people have mentioned (fog scenes seem to be popular) and can detect no artifacts with my AE900. I have seen such artifacts with othe LCD projectors, so I do know what they look like. I saw a little bit of FPN with the M&C fog scene, but I had to put my nose up to the screen to see it. Also, I recentely adjusted flicker in the service menu and it's even better now.

Now, does this mean everyone that does see them is wrong? No, because I don't have their particular AE900, video source or eyes. Or, maybe I'm so used to DLP-related artifacts that I'm happy not seeing them. ;)

My AE900 was just taken right out of a stock supply, so there's nothing special about it. I will be getting an Epson for review at the end of the month, so we'll see how that compares.

I would love for you to try disk one of the series "Lost". I see very noticable FPN on every scene that pans across the blue sky - and there is a lot of those seens in "Lost". My wife sees it also but is much less annoyed by it than I am.

Here's the illustration image demonstrating SmoothScreen from the ae900 brochure on Panasonic's web site. I leave it up to those who have observed in person to judge whether this accurately represents what you see on screen.

jtv

Well, the "after" picture does, but the "before" is obviously overstated. I don't have a problem with the sharpneess of the AE900. To me it follows the differences many experience between the H31 and 4805, where the 4805 has the sharper, "digital" look to it where the H31's more "movie-like". Both are very good, but satisfy different tastes.

I would love for you to try disk one of the series "Lost". I see very noticable FPN on every scene that pans across the blue sky - and there is a lot of those seens in "Lost". My wife sees it also but is much less annoyed by it than I am.

I'm afraid I don't have the Lost DVD, but have you seen issues with any other DVDs?

I'm afraid I don't have the Lost DVD, but have you seen issues with any other DVDs?

All of our local video stores seem to have Lost, season 1 in stock now. If you ever get a chance, check it out. It's a great series, by the way.

I've seen some form of FPN on most of the DVD's I've rented lately but it's definitely more noticeable on Lost because of all the sky scenes. I can't think of any other specific scenes off the top of my head.

I wish I at least knew that what I'm seeing is normal - compared to other people's machines. I can live with it if the problem is that I'm just more sensitive to it. But if my projector is just worse, I'd like to exchange it.

<<I just tried aspect ratio controll with 1280x720@60 input and it looks like it supports native and a horizontal stretching mode like you wanted for 4:3 material. I have no idea how well it works as I won't use it. Unfortunately, that is it and no stretching internally for anamorphic lenses with 720p input.

--Darin>>

Darin,

Sorry to "nickel andime you." I've read in the "Constant Height" forum that the Panny 700 was capable of stretching/squeezing...and, if I remember correctly, even at inputted resolutions above 480. Is my memory failing? Or, did Panasonic delete this so-desirable feature? (If so, it's curious; one assumes that the scaling chipset would not have had to change...)

Thanks, as ever.

MikeSRC,

Just in case you haven't gotten enough positive feedback for your terrific efforts over the past few weeks: Thanks a bunch for your myriad posts, your quick replies to so many members about so many issues of particular concern to them, and for your obvious attempts both at objectivity, and consciously presenting your own possible biases (not necessarily the same thing, of course, so, doubly appreciated). A kudos to you, sir, thanks!

willdao


P.S. Thanks to ALL who've posted, of course. While I know that nothing can ever begin to replace one's own eyes (ears) in demoing equipment, a few of us unfortunately have to depend on the wise, informed experiences of others. I worked in the industry for years, so, it's more than "just" a hobby for me, and I would caution everyone that mere laziness is no excuse for failing to demo any AV equipment...while being several hundred miles from a retailer, unfortnately, is...thanks, all.

Ok, fair enough. I guess my experiences with smooth screen and defocussing other PJ's are rather limited, and I admit the AE300 I had briefly was scaling a 480p image so maybe that is what caused the softness.

My point is that if you use an AE300/500/700/900 and don't like smooth screen even after doing your best to set up the projector, you can always try a pj that doesn't have smooth screen, and you can experiment with defocussing. Even without smooth-screen, you can still reduce screendoor if it really bothers you. It all depends on how far away you are sitting from the screen. My screen is only 92" diagonal right now and I sit about 1.75X screen width away. And lastly, alot of people aren't even bothered by screen door on the newer projectors which are 540p and 720p. I can understand the 480p projectors, as you see screen door unless defocussed, but if most people aren't bothered by screendoor with the 540p and 720p projectors, then don't think you must buy the Panasonic because of the smooth screen feature. In my view, and I wear glasses which give me 20/20 vision, screendoor isn't anything to panic about.

Now, a question about vertical banding:

How many people have so far seen vertical banding on their AE900 enough that it bothers them?

I've attached a screen capture from Disk 1 of the first Season of the series Lost.

I can see it in this screen capture although, it looks worse on-screen, especially as the camera pans...

Can you guys see it in this photo ??

I would also like to thank Mike for his efforts and information on the AE900.

Darin,

Sorry to "nickel andime you." I've read in the "Constant Height" forum that the Panny 700 was capable of stretching/squeezing...and, if I remember correctly, even at inputted resolutions above 480. Is my memory failing? Or, did Panasonic delete this so-desirable feature? (If so, it's curious; one assumes that the scaling chipset would not have had to change...)

Thanks, as ever.[/QUOTE]


Not Darin but I know the answer ;). The 700 can ONLY stretch 480 material. Not 720 or 1080. That's the limitation I was hoping the 900 would overcome, and apparently can't.

Yep. Plain as day. You jerk, now I'll never be able to "not" see it :D

This is "vertical banding, right?" Not "fixed panel noise?" Or, that's my individual understanding...There seems to be some lingering confusion over the terms VB and FPN, not least in my own brain! ( Help!)

BTW, not only was I truly kidding, in the first line above, but I think it is entirely proper for every AVS aficionado to not only educate himself/herself about such issues, but to demand of the manufacturers that they address such issues.

"The good is the enemy of the great," as ever, and AVS members keep the manufacturers on their toes, as it should be, and also help to ensure generational technical advances that "internally captured" engineeers might not otherwise be able to get past the bean-counters above them. In a sense, we help to ENSURE highly-evolving competition. Thusly, I'm proud to be a member of this forum, and hope to watch it grow, and grow, even beyond it's current (impressive) expansion rate.

BTW, for new members: I've mostly lurked for over 18 months, getting a feel for the place/space, without posting a lot. One of the things I'm particularly impressed about is the overall caliber of knowledge, especially among the senior members. One finds, for example, engineeers and designers (both within and without the CEA), marketing and sales professionals (ditto, as with me, currently, although I'd love to find a job back in this field, PM if you're recruiting, and I'll put my MBA enthusiastically to work for you!), and dedicated hobbyists with an EXTRAORDINARY level of technical knowledge/competence...not to mention the unfortunate ability to recognize--and the more unfortunate wont to publicize!--the vertical streaks you see in the .jpg...(grin!)

Thanks! What a great resource this community is!


(Yes, dammit, I'm having a great day, this holiday, so, take my enthusiasm while you can get it, I'll probably be cranky tomorrow!)

willdao

Thanks, you madpoet, ya.

Darnit.

What about the Sanyo? Do ya happen to know? (Or must I wade through 300 posts? I'm fundamentally lazy on holidays, dontcha know! :D )

I guess, while I'm at it, I might as well ask whether the Epson will do it. And/or, what the cheapest solution is?


(Thanks, Poet. I respect you both, of course, as do we all.)

willdao

Re the SDE, I can see pixel structure if I look closely, but I assume that's from my laptop. I don't think I see the FPN, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I think I can see some slightly lighter blue vertical strips, not sure. If that's it, are you sure its not in the source?

Edit: my SDE comment above was in response to someone's post just above that they could see SDE in that screen shot.. that post seems to have disappeared :confused:

I can't really see how you can see SDE from that image. The Vertical Banding is as clear as anything, and i quite a common factor on my soon to be replaced AE500. But...at the end of the day, its no diabolical and overpowering. Its there, but not something that would bother me too much.

Chris

I've attached a screen capture from Disk 1 of the first Season of the series Lost.

I can see it in this screen capture although, it looks worse on-screen, especially as the camera pans...

Can you guys see it in this photo ??

I see some faint VB to the left of the person standing. My monitor's not big enough to discern anything else.

I can understand you frustration with VB. Has anyone tried to tweak it out after leaving the proj. on for about an hour? If you have had success please post on the tweak thread. I do believe that Panasonic claims VB can be eliminated with this Proj. I also believe that some Projectors have shipped with little VB. I wonder if it is a quality control problem since not everyone has it. I also wonder if some of us are being too critical. We must rember that no projector is perfect. For the price this projector seems great. Saying this I know I would be bothered by heavy VB. I would love to see the results from a HD football game.

I see some faint VB to the left of the person standing. My monitor's not big enough to discern anything else.

We'll - I guess I'm glad you guys can see it in that picture - and I'm not going nutz !

I would've thought by now that there would be a clear definition of VB vs. FPN. I used to think this was VB but after reading a lot of post around here, I thought it was FPN. The streaks are not totally uniform and are only apparent in light backgrounds. I thought this was a description of FPN.

BEFORE I took that screenshot, I did the flicker tweak both by looking at the screen and then using the paper trick. It made no noticeable difference. I've also messed around in the Panel menu but I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing in there and saw no before/after differences.

It would be nice to speak with a Panasonic expert about this...

I can understand you frustration with VB. Has anyone tried to tweak it out after leaving the proj. on for about an hour? If you have had success please post on the tweak thread. I do believe that Panasonic claims VB can be eliminated with this Proj. I also believe that some Projectors have shipped with little VB. I wonder if it is a quality control problem since not everyone has it. I also wonder if some of us are being too critical. We must rember that no projector is perfect. For the price this projector seems great. Saying this I know I would be bothered by heavy VB. I would love to see the results from a HD football game.


Since I've seen the EXACT same thing with both my AE700 and now my AE900, I wonder if a VB/FPN-free Panasonic projector exists OR am I just able to see it where others can't ??

My projector was on for well over an hour and I did the flicker tweak with no noticeable improvement.

I would be THRILLED to say the least if someone could tell me how to "tweak" this vertical streaking out of the picture. It is my only criticism of this projector. It otherwise has a fabulous, stunning picture and a noticeable improvement over the AE700.

I also believe that some Projectors have shipped with little VB. I wonder if it is a quality control problem since not everyone has it.

I certainly hope this isn't the case, where I suspect some 900s as actual tweaked 700s that went on surplus...and leaving some VB issues behind. :eek:

I will hold out for a week or so, regardless of, until Ewan posts his comparison tests and Darin further examines this unit on his operating table...I mean home theater room. ;)

That lack of vertical stretch @ 720 is quite dissapointing indeed, as I am considering a CH setup.

Also, if anyone is seeing any kind of screen-door in my "Lost" picture, it has to be because of my digital camera (Low-res mode for this forum)- not the projector. Screen door is totally a non-issue with the AE900. I have yet to show this projector to anyone who could discern any visible picture structure from any reasonable sitting distance. Even up close, it's not like the LCD's of old. Simply a non-issue IMO.

For the price this projector seems great. Saying this I know I would be bothered by heavy VB. I would love to see the results from a HD football game.

I have several HD Football games. 90% of the time, the picture is so jaw-dropping, you never notice VB/FPN (My new term since I don't know if what I'm seeing is VB or FPN). That said, if the camera pans to an angle with a light background or a shot of the sky, I CAN see VB/FPN during HD Football games. I have a HD TiVo recording of a few games from last Sunday and found more than 1 scene with very noticeable VB/FPN.

I doubt anyone is stupid enougth to be selling 700s and 900s ;).

I have not heard definitively, but I think the new Sanyo was still not stretching anything over 480 either.

I don't think I see the FPN, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I think I can see some slightly lighter blue vertical strips, not sure. If that's it, are you sure its not in the source?

Yes, it's the slightly lighter blue vertical strips. It looks much more pronounced as the camera moves. It's not in the source. I can see this exact same issue from a number of sources, including my HD TiVo. I guess my cabling and/or other equipment could be a cause but it looks so much like other people's description of VB/FPN that I doubt it.

I doubt anyone is stupid enougth to be selling 700s and 900s ;).

I have not heard definitively, but I think the new Sanyo was still not stretching anything over 480 either.

I remember Optoma having some parts mixed-up issue between their H79 and H78DC3...hopefully, this won't be the case.

SmoothScreen and Text - I am not having any problems with legibility using my PC. The image is very sharp.

Nobody should compare SmoothScreen to defocus. I have used defocusing on the past with other projectors and it definitely softens the image. If there is any softening with the AE900, it is very minimal and the lack of screendoor is amazing (I sit at 1.2X). Once you view something that has screendoor again, you realize how bad it can look.

ike, what scene is your picture from? I'll try and rent Lost tomorrow and take the same picture on my AE900. Also, what input and settings are you currently using? Oh yeah, also, lamp on low or high?

I thought these were Interesting AE900 comments:

Some say the AE900 picture is Smoother than the AE700 while others say the AE900 isn’t as sharp. One person had two AE900’s and could see that one was “sharper” than the other. Not sure if they were identically set up or using identical inputs.

Here are some rough AE 900 vertical banding stats so far :cool:

Vertical Banding on your AE900?

Daniel Hutnicki and his in house demo - No vertical banding on the AE900 and he had several "vertical banding" experts to search for it. (sounds kinda sinister...lol...)
Sportrac – No
MikeSRC – No
Stephenvv – ?? doesn’t think has VB
MRJAZZZ – VB very noticeable at first- possibly getting less noticeable – did some adjustment and it is much reduced. Not eliminated but says he’s no longer bothered by it.
Pultar - ? Slight vertical banding – zero screen door and no peak-a-boo scanlines (hope that holds)
Ike – AE900 with vertical banding (edit)
JimmyR – no vertical banding
3D Quadrium – had vertical banding but tweaked it and now??
z_m – no vertical banding – projected on white wall

For the following folks, could you report on whether or not you have seen vertical banding on your projector?

Have you seen Vertical Banding on your ae900? Yes or no?

HiTechGuy
SFB
Etavadia
DreamCatcher
Jermmd
Rboster

Ike,

Those vertical streaks look suspiciously like a wavy hanging screen. I saw that on the first AE100 I brought home. I was projecting on some blackout material I had hanging and I paniced until I tensioned the screen and it went away.

Normally, in my experience with vertical banding, it is a smaller resolution problem. On the L200 and the TX100 I have seen it on, vertical banding looks like very small vertical lines with fixed borders. There is no shading and the lines look no more than a few pixels wide, if only one or two pixels wide.

Interesting results so far. At least vertical banding is not showing itself in full force at this point. Here's hoping its much improved in the AE900 and other D5 PJ's :)

ike, what scene is your picture from? I'll try and rent Lost tomorrow and take the same picture on my AE900. Also, what input and settings are you currently using? Oh yeah, also, lamp on low or high?

Thanks Mike.

My scene is at about 12minutes, 2 seconds into the first episode (Pilot-Part1) on the first Disk of season 1 of Lost.

I'm using the component input and all settings are factory. The only thing I've played with is the flicker and panel adjust.

Ike,

Those vertical streaks look suspiciously like a wavy hanging screen. I saw that on the first AE100 I brought home. I was projecting on some blackout material I had hanging and I paniced until I tensioned the screen and it went away.



cpc - my screen is a permantently mounted (tensioned) Da Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision. I don't see any waves in the screen.

BTW - I've only had 1 AE900 projector. The projector I had before this one was an AE700, which I saw the exact same "banding" problems with.

Wow - guys, you got me thinking about my screen. So I did the following tests:

1. I paused my "Lost" scene where VB/FPN was most noticeable. Then I moved the adjustable lens joystick around. The vertical streaks did NOT MOVE !! They stayed in the same position.

2. I re-centered the picture and then moved to a steep off-axis sitting position. NO VP/FPN whatsoever in the picture.

3. I changed the projector from Ceiling to Desk mount, flipping the picture. The streaks stayed near the top of the picture.

UNBELIEVABLE. I'm now 99% convinced that my screen is the culprit. But how ?? It's a tensioned screen with no visible waves. Could my screen have some kind of defects vertically ? Could the tension be just uneven enough to cause a problem ?

If it truely is my screen, sorry for causing you all to get nervous regarding the AE900.

Ike, How large is your screen and what brand is it? I doubt this is the case in home movie screens but in motion picture screens the different panels are often heat welded together.

I would put a bright light on the screen from some other source to see if there are any imperfections.

"Here's the illustration image demonstrating SmoothScreen from the ae900 brochure on Panasonic's web site."

These are obviously fabricated, because the "pixels" contain varying picture info.

1. I paused my "Lost" scene where VB/FPN was most noticeable. Then I moved the adjustable lens joystick around. The vertical streaks did NOT MOVE !! They stayed in the same position.
Ike, does "did not move" mean that the streaks stayed in the same position on the screen or in the same position in the image? If the former then no doubt about it, your screen is the culprit.

If it truely is my screen, sorry for causing you all to get nervous regarding the AE900.

No problem. Glad that 1) you figured out the problem and 2) it wasn't your AE900! :) (Meaning one less AE900 with "problems"...)

NilsP

Ike, does "did not move" mean that the streaks stayed in the same position on the screen or in the same position in the image? If the former then no doubt about it, your screen is the culprit.

The streaks stayed in the same position on the screen.

My Screen is DEFINITELY the culprit. I went one step further and removed the screen from my wall. I'm shocked. Perfect picture with no banding. I've lived with this condition since January - all the time believing the culprit was my former AE700. Probably was nothing wrong with that PJ either. Unbelievable.

I called the place where I purchased the screen and they are calling Da Lite to see if they will do anything.

There is no visible imperfection in the screen that I can see. So - I wonder... is there some kind of defect in the screen material that I just can't see OR is there something wrong with the screen's frame, causing it to be tensioned unevenly.

I hope others who see VB/FPN will try the same experiment with the vertical shift and report back whether they find the 900 or the screen to be the culprit. Also see if this is a common daylite problem or exists on other screens.

Sounds like a manufacturing defect in the HCCV screen material. It does have a combination of grey and reflective elements to achive a slightly higher than usual gain for a grey screen. DaLite has a one year warranty on the screen, so you should be able to get yours replaced.

anyone else who cares to respond!),

Anyone - that could be me.


Would you mind elaborating a little more? I will want to use the 900 (or z4, etc.) to display the PC desktop; I already have a wireless keyboard, for example. Mostly, I will want to do a little gaming (some of the "Need for Speed" titles), and occasional surfing (AVS at 110", baby!).

Will the smoothscreen technology make such applications an unrealistic hope? Or, is text viewable (down to, say, 10 pts.) at 1X screen width (3 1/2 yards or so?), but just not as "sharp" relative to other LCD PJs?

I'm not following this thread diligently so you may have received an answer.
I project with a 700 a Constant Height setup with a 16:9 size of 51 x 91 with an HTPC with HDMI as the transport. I sit about 1.3 but could go closer. I'm not a gamer so I can't comment on that. I've compared good quality VGA vs HDMI cables from RAM and as I've noted earlier in the thread that HDMI is considerably shaper - so much so that EE and panel convergence can become an annoyance. I find desktop type to be quite legible - down to 1 pixel width source. I personally would not use the projector for writing dissertations but is fine for posting on AVS - though I prefer the intimacy of my 19 incher for such use.


TJN in Stereophile Guide to HT/Ultimate AV has often said that he believes that digital PJs "seem sharper" than, say, 9" CRT PJs, because of the pixel grid itself; i.e. our perception is swayed by the outlines of the fill spaces, esp. on horizontal and vertical lines (and, of course, text, etc.). Do you agree with this? And, if so, do you find it a "desirable" factor (e.g. it's not a bug, it's a feature!)?

I would agree with this comment.


Lastly, does the smoothscreen on the 900 merely "magnify" the center of the individual pixels to "stretch them in 2D," and therefore "fill in" the fill spaces/grid--yet NOT "step on" the adjacent pixels?

Thanks,

willdao

As has been commented, I believe it is more akin to the IMX lens.

ted

Ike, How large is your screen and what brand is it? I doubt this is the case in home movie screens but in motion picture screens the different panels are often heat welded together.

I would put a bright light on the screen from some other source to see if there are any imperfections.

It's 110" diag, High Contrast Cinema Vision, Perm Wall from Da Lite. It's completely seamless. I've looked the screen over carefully and can't SEE any imperfections but something either in the material or in the "tensioning" is causing this.

I'm relieved that it isn't the projector but wonder if even a replacement screen from Da-Lite will fix the problem...

"Here's the illustration image demonstrating SmoothScreen from the ae900 brochure on Panasonic's web site."

These are obviously fabricated, because the "pixels" contain varying picture info.
It also doesn't look like what I see. That illustration seems more like a demonstration of the fill factor of D5 panels vs older panels than SmoothScreen to me. The SmoothScreen is more like breaking each pixel into multiples, not like that illustration where the pixels are the same size in either case.

I hope others who see VB/FPN will try the same experiment with the vertical shift ...
Or just kind of rock the projector and see if they move. I'm sure my VB would since it isn't there with a DLP or other projectors I've used as is mostly on the green channel.

--Darin

Sounds like a manufacturing defect in the HCCV screen material. It does have a combination of grey and reflective elements to achive a slightly higher than usual gain for a grey screen. DaLite has a one year warranty on the screen, so you should be able to get yours replaced.

I had a similar problem with a CV screen from da-lite. I even sent in the screen and frame....and they claimed it wasn't a problem. After about 10 months, I posted a thread in AVS about the problem and got a response back from a Sr Marketing Person who is also an AVS member. They sent a whole new screen and frame without the waves created from the screen snaps not matching up properly. So I would contact the dealer you purchase it from and he/she will contact Da-lite.

As far as VB on my unit. I have the day off today and spent sometime viewing scenes with blue skies etc and I didn't notice any VB. I also went to the marsh scene w/ the fog in LOTR and did not see and FPN.

Ron

PS: As far as the other member's retracking his comments about the smoothscreen same as defocusing....Dude, I'm sure you are well meaning in your comments...but members are making decisions based on information both good and bad in this thread. It's really inappropriate to make statements that you know are conjecture and state them as fact....which is how your comments were perceived (at least by me). Again, I'm sure you didn't mean any ill will, but we should keep our comments to facts or state if they are observations, then state them as such.

I had a similar problem with a CV screen from da-lite. I even sent in the screen and frame....and they claimed it wasn't a problem. After about 10 months, I posted a thread in AVS about the problem and got a response back from a Sr Marketing Person who is also an AVS member. They sent a whole new screen and frame without the waves created from the screen snaps not matching up properly. So I would contact the dealer you purchase it from and he/she will contact Da-lite.


Interesting.

I did contact the place where I purhcased the screen and they are contacting Da Lite. I certainly hope I don't have to wait 10 months to get this issue corrected.

In your case, could you visibly see the "waves" created in the screen because of the snaps not matching up properly ? My screen LOOKs perfectly flat, that is, until I project an image with a light background on to it.

Yes, I've put up every primary and secondary color screen (with Avia Pro over HDMI), as well as just about every DVD scene that people have mentioned (fog scenes seem to be popular) and can detect no artifacts with my AE900. I have seen such artifacts with othe LCD projectors, so I do know what they look like. I saw a little bit of FPN with the M&C fog scene, but I had to put my nose up to the screen to see it. Also, I recentely adjusted flicker in the service menu and it's even better now.

Now, does this mean everyone that does see them is wrong? No, because I don't have their particular AE900, video source or eyes. Or, maybe I'm so used to DLP-related artifacts that I'm happy not seeing them. ;)

My AE900 was just taken right out of a stock supply, so there's nothing special about it. I will be getting an Epson for review at the end of the month, so we'll see how that compares.

That's encouraging... thanks for the feedback.

- JP

That is encouraging. I must admit, I was surprised that nobody else commented that you didn't have vertical banding. Vertical banding is an artifact that has a much smaller scale of resolution. The lines are far smaller and more numerous. Like 1 to two pixels thick on the borders, surrounding an area of 5 or 6 pixels in between. With the Hitachi TX100, there are screens where you adjust it and its obvious. I've seen that "vertical streaking" before, and it was on a screen that someone had which was tensioned too. When I saw it on my projector, the first time I brought home my AE100, it was because the screen material I had hanging down was totally un-tensioned from below. I simply pulled it tight and the waves went away.

In the meantime, go grab some "blackout" material from a drapery/fabric store. In Canada we get it from Fabricland for less than $50.00 CDN for a large enough peice to make a nearly 104" diagonal screen. Try some of that by making a quick screen frame and you'll have a good tester for future screens, or, maybe you'll just use that screen. I like my blackout material screen.

Interesting.

I did contact the place where I purhcased the screen and they are contacting Da Lite. I certainly hope I don't have to wait 10 months to get this issue corrected.

In your case, could you visibly see the "waves" created in the screen because of the snaps not matching up properly ? My screen LOOKs perfectly flat, that is, until I project an image with a light background on to it.

I could ever so slightly see the waves up close on the screen w/o an image. It become more evident once an image was projected. My wife didn't notice them until I pointed them out.

I'm sure your dealer will get everything squared away. If your dealer has problems send me a PM and I will give you any info I have on file. I still may have the letter I sent and to whom I sent it,

Ron

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

I think everyone with an AE900 should post their screen material/manufacturer , and weather VB/FPN are present. It looks like we may be able to sort this out, and have Panasonic breathe easier ! :)

I think everyone with an AE900 should post their screen material/manufacturer , and weather VB/FPN are present. It looks like we may be able to sort this out, and have Panasonic breathe easier ! :)

Could we also poll the screen sizes folks are using? How big can you go with this projector?

Guys, far be it for me to bash any screen manufacturer, but I have had problems with various screens in the past (Da-Lite HCCV for one). In every case, the screen was past the warranty so I was SOL. When I get my AE900, I am opting for a DIY screen (cheaper, easier to replace if you have problems).

paul, what problem did you have with the HCCV? i have had problems with tiny translucent "dots" on the screen and also some "stickyness"; i too am out of warranty. is this poor quality control?

I bought a Panasonic 900 last week and have watched it for about 20 hours. I have seen no vb. I am upgrading from an Infocus 5000 where the vb was pronounced and distracting so I know what to look for. The 900 is not as bright as the 5000, but the hues and black levels are better. When fed a hd source both look sharp, but the 900 seems more refined.

I'll post my experience as mentioned earlier. This is my 1st projector and I have never seen VB/FPN before. I am really hesitant to look too hard for this problem because I do not want to become sensitized to it. That said, I looked at whole screens of green/red/blue from Video Essentials and the picture looked entirely uniform to me. No VB/FPN! I am projecting onto a 45"X80" (92" diagonal) DaLite Cinema contour screen. I have Excellent light control and the screen is surrounded by dark colors-Burgundy velvet curtains and Burgandy foam ceiling tiles from Foam By Mail. I'll post a photo some time if I can.

My unofficial and quick settings are as follows:
In the Natural mode-Brightness -5, Contrast -2, Color -5, low lamp setting, noise reduction off. I read above that Cinema 1 was closest to ideal settings and I may start there and try again. I'd like to hear what other people are doing.

Since someone asked for this info earlier:

I'm using the Cinema 1 setting. Projecting a 106" diag. image on a Da-lite Cinema Vision screen material with a Cinema contour frame. Lamp setting on low.

Ron

slateef,

My recent problem (w/ the HCCV) was wrinkle marks. My screen was in storage (rolled up very carefully) for a few months as I set up the HT in my new house. Once I mounted it (Perm Wall) it literally looked like it had been wrinkled in some places. It really bothered me when viewing bright scenes. I called Da-Lite and they said that the wrinkles would go away once it was stretched out for awhile. The never did and I tried EVERYTHING. Paid lots of $$$ and only had the screen for 3-4 years. Never again - now I'm sold on DIY. One of the things that all of us are missing is that the quality control (or lack thereof) is huge for screens (doesn't matter who the company is). Under the proper conditions, most of these screens will perform as promised but they don't last forever. And, if you have kids who like to touch, forget it. So many things can ruin these screens. For example, the pest control guy can squirt some bug spray (in the vicinity of your screen) and the aerosol can leave permanent small dots that react to some of the surfaces. I have found that the HCCV is particularly fickle to anything it comes into contact with. And yet, some will borderline abuse their screens and have no problem whatsoever. It's really interesting that the VB thing has never been attributed to a screen before. Now that we know, I'll be suggesting that people who see artifacts switch screens (or broadcast unto a bedsheet or wall) before blaming the pj.

I guess I have been rather lucky with my screen. I have a friend who is a large manufacturer of screens form movie theatres. He made a special matt white screen for me using the same material he uses for theatre screens. The tension is set by many springs,. I used angle iron that I purchased at Home Depot which had holes it in to tension the springs from the border. (Holes in border like standard theatre screen.) The angle iron is about 6"from the end of the screen so I can set the tension and I cover it with masking material. This works out very well for me. I know everyone can't do what I did so I would suggest looking at some of the ideas on the DIY screen thread. I have been trying to talk my friend into doing screens for the home theatre market but I have had little success. He does not want to get involved with small individual orders. I used this screen when I owned a 700 and I am waiting for a new projector.

slateef,

Now that we know, I'll be suggesting that people who see artifacts switch screens (or broadcast unto a bedsheet or wall) before blaming the pj.

My Draper M2500 screen material has distracting vertical striations. I've been using it in front of my 700, and many people have mistaken this flaw as VB. I demonstrate otherwise for them by panning my (shelf-mounted) 700 left and right to reveal the pattern as fixed on my screen. I've seen other screen materials with even more convincing and evenly-spaced "VB effect". Obviously, one could also tip or otherwise move the screen if the PJ is ceiling-mounted, but this is often impossible. Pans (horizontal camera motion) within the movie make this anomaly glaring, and might be as revealing of genuine VB. I mention this because a person stuck with a fixed screen AND a fixed PJ mount can substantially de-focus the image, play a VB-revealing scene, and if the "VB" remains sharply defined, then it's in the screen, and if it has become de-focused with the image, it's not.

Make no mistake though, the 700 is perfectly capable of producing genuine VB. Unless Panasonic has taken steps to eliminate it in the 900 (and I haven't heard any claims to that effect), I'd pretty much bet on some degree of VB there as well, varying from unit to unit as with the 700. One anomaly I'd find unacceptable in the 900 would be the inheritance of its predecessor's tendency to display RIDICULOUS VB after sitting overnight without having its back-side switch shut off, or the AC power otherwise killed. More folks than I could count, including me, complained of this on the original 700 thread. I'm just going to assume that this glitch hasn't been carried over, what with the new "fifth generation LCD panels" & all.

Quote from literature: "...New Smooth Screen technology delivers smoother and more natural images. This, combined with the new fifth generation LCD panel of the PT-AE900U, removes the blurriness and flickering of horizontal black lines during vertical panning".

Damn! Now that's a specific improvement that I didn't even know I wanted. I'm going to search out some vertical pans of horizontal black lines on my 700 just so they can bug me. :)

KongFan

PS In case anyone else cares, there's no such thing as a "vertical pan". A pan is horizontal. Vertical camera movement is a "tilt"

GRAMMAR POLICE!!! GRAMMAR POLICE!!!

I should be getting my PJ this weekend, and i have screen materials in 2ftx2ft samples coming from Da-Lite in Da-Mat, Cinema Vision and HC CV. Im also getting samples from Carada and Draper in hopefully similar sizes so i can choose a screen after having spent some time viewing it.

However, my favourite choice was the Da-Lite Perm Wall HCCV. Ike, or anyone else, how did you get this screen material tensioned? I thought it just came as a standard fixed frame. I am looking at the Draper Onyx because it can be tensioned, but im unsure about the type of screen to get.

Especially after it has become apparent that some VB issues seem to be screen related, and especially with Da-Lite screen from two users posts.

Anyone any comments/info on this?

Thanks
Chris

However, my favourite choice was the Da-Lite Perm Wall HCCV. Ike, or anyone else, how did you get this screen material tensioned? I thought it just came as a standard fixed frame.

Chris - My Da-Lite Perm Wall HCCV screen is tensioned simply by attaching it to the aluminum frame that comes with it. You build the simple frame and screw it to the wall. The screen material has snaps sewed into the border which line up with snaps on the frame. This is what keeps it tensioned. My fear is that if there is a slight error in the placement of the snaps on either the material or the frame, the screen won't be tensioned uniformily and some type of banding could occur.

BTW - the place where I purchased my screen called today. Da-Lite agreed to exchange my screen for a new one, no questions asked. I should receive the new screen on Monday. I seriously hope this fixes the vertical banding issues with my screen.

That's it ... I couldn't wait any longer!! :D
I just ordered the AE900 ... coming by the weekend. I now have to get cracking on my diy screen!!
This is after a 2 year lurking around, looking at a single chip dlps (headache central), having dreams of a large image (only to wake up :( ), and now its showtime!!! :D :D

Chris - My Da-Lite Perm Wall HCCV screen is tensioned simply by attaching it to the aluminum frame that comes with it. You build the simple frame and screw it to the wall. The screen material has snaps sewed into the border which line up with snaps on the frame. This is what keeps it tensioned. My fear is that if there is a slight error in the placement of the snaps on either the material or the frame, the screen won't be tensioned uniformily and some type of banding could occur.

BTW - the place where I purchased my screen called today. Da-Lite agreed to exchange my screen for a new one, no questions asked. I should receive the new screen on Monday. I seriously hope this fixes the vertical banding issues with my screen.


Ike: I'm glad to hear that you are going to get it taken care of....and yes, what you described is exactly what causes the slight ripple in the screen, which shows up on the screen's image.

Ron

is there anyone here that has upgraded from the L300U to the AE900? what are your thoughts? is it worth it? is there a huge difference or just subtle?

Hey have you sold your 300 yet? :) Not looking to buy, I'm waiting for my Hitachi TX100 to return from warranty replacement. Just curious :)

I'm ready to pull the trigger and order the AE900U. I'm very new to home theatre and have been reading along for a while.

I'm sure many first time buyers are deciding between the Sanyo Z4 and the AE900U. A couple of quick questions:

1) Their respective stats seem very similar. The Sanyo has a 12 bit processor vs the Panasonic's 10 bit. Will this make any difference to me?

2) I haven't seen the Sanyo in action but did see a Panasonic ae700 and noticed quite a bit of verticle banding. It was a store model and not at all calibrated. Please tell me this won't be a problem on a new, calibrated AE900u?

3) Finally, I'll mostly be using this for DVD's and a bit of HDTV. Should I get one of those scaling DVD's that will upscale to 720p, or is the built in scaler just as good, or better?

Thanks to all you experts.

Laz

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

Darinp2 addressed your question before here :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6325497&highlight=toshiba#post6325497

cpc, nope it hasn't sold yet...the economy here in the states is pretty bad, i guess :)

is there anyone here that has upgraded from the L300U to the AE900? what are your thoughts? is it worth it? is there a huge difference or just subtle?

I havent seen either but going from a Sanyo Z2 to the Epson 500 I can tell you the difference was easily noticeable. I had the z1 before the z2 and going from the z1 to the Z2 was a big jump.

Seeing as the Ae900 should be superior to the Epson 500 in basically every way and going by my past experience, the difference for you should be HUGE. :) The actual CR alone is probably 8+ times what you have with the 300 now and then of course you get the extra resolution (720 is IMO an easy visible improvement over 540 on even dvds which shocked me when i first got the z2 as I wasnt expecting a big diff) and a few other improvements/goodies. Basically, I'd say without question it would be worth the upgrade.

Hi,

could someone who owns the 900 answer a few questions about the lens shift for me?

1) Is it easy to move the lens shift vertically without accidentally moving it horizontally?

2) Is it easy to fine tune the lens shift to a position?


I would want to use the projector in a constant height setup (no anamorphic lens) and would be adjusting the lens shift vertically every time I switch between 1.85 and 2.35 material. Is this easy to do with the joystick?

Thanks

Hi,

could someone who owns the 900 answer a few questions about the lens shift for me?

1) Is it easy to move the lens shift vertically without accidentally moving it horizontally?

2) Is it easy to fine tune the lens shift to a position?


I would want to use the projector in a constant height setup (no anamorphic lens) and would be adjusting the lens shift vertically every time I switch between 1.85 and 2.35 material. Is this easy to do with the joystick?

Thanks

On the front of the projector is a joystick that can be used easily to move the image. It locks and unlocks by screwing it down.

Cheers Ike, i thought maybe you had some other method of tensioning apart from the snaps. Gettin some samples from Da-Lite, Draper and Carada so i can decide on the screen to get. I think my preference is still either Da-Lite Perm-Wall, or the Draper Onyx.

Ike (or anyone): is the aliminium frame on the Perm-Wall solid enough, that if i can't find anywhere on a wall to mount it, which i probably can't, that i would be able to screw in a few metal supports (Legs of some sort) and have it mounted on them. IE: Is the frame flimsy and likley to bend at all if i do this?

Thanks

is there anyone here that has upgraded from the L300U to the AE900? what are your thoughts? is it worth it? is there a huge difference or just subtle?

I am going from an AE500 to an AE900, and i have seen one demo'd. Let me tell you that the difference between these two models is amazing - blacks actually look black, the image looks bright and the detail is excellent. It would blow the AE500 out of the water in a comparison, so i would say no problem in being a lot lot better than the AE300. Also, the AE500 was calibrated and the AE900 was an uncalibrated, not totally dark room, in a store....

Chris

Unless Panasonic has taken steps to eliminate it in the 900 (and I haven't heard any claims to that effect), I'd pretty much bet on some degree of VB there as well, varying from unit to unit as with the 700.

Actually they did claim that at CEDIA - it was posted on the ae900 pre-release thread somewhere by someone who spoke to a Panasonic engineer at the exhibition.


Liam

no problems with this Panasonic model

http://www.avbuzz.com/photo-model/200509/panasonic-show-050901/christine/index.htm

one more VB and FPN free model :cool:
http://www.avbuzz.com/photo-model/200509/panasonic-show-050901/Vivian/index.htm

DrA,

Those are vertical banding free Panasonic models! Wow! Look at the vibrant colour. So lifelike. So real. So bizarrely sexy. Not much unlike draping cars and motorcycles with woman models. I wonder how much better the projectors would look with woman models showcasing them?

If you like those models, one movie you should see is WASABI. Its a funny campy low brain comedy, but its entertaining and there is a beautiful Japanese actor throughout most of the movie you'd probably like ;)


Oriphus,

When you say the AE500 was calibrated, I assume you mean yours? And the AE900 was not calibrated, you mean you hope the store didn't tweak it to exaggerate contrast and brightness...lol..before you got there? Or maybe they let you in the OSD menu for yourself?

What Marantz are you using in your home theatre? :) Still using my SR 8000 and lovin it ;)

Hi CPC, The AE500 was my own and was calibrated using DVE to the best of my ability - spent about an hour on it. The AE900 was straight out of the box, nothing touched. I didnt go into any of the menus myself, just compared it to my caibrated one, against the 900 Cinema 1 mode.

As for my Marantz gear, I've very recently updated a few things.

I have the SR5600 on its way to me - at the minute I don't need anymore power than that and the components are very comparible to the SR7500/7600

I have just purchased the DV7600 DVD-A,DVD-V,SACD HDMI player. Awesome is my first impression, but after playing around with it, i find it does the very annoying thing that my older Marantz SR4300 still does, and thats the FFW and RW functions: When you hit play after fast forwarding a scene it seems to resume about 30 seconds after the place on the screen. It's annoying but not the end of the world.

The HDMI output on this 7600 is excellent and the up-scaler to 720/750p is apparently very comparable to the DVDO ISCAN HD, which can't be a bad thing.

How's your system going?

Chris

DrA,

Those are vertical banding free Panasonic models! Wow! Look at the vibrant colour. So lifelike. So real. So bizarrely sexy. Not much unlike draping cars and motorcycles with woman models. I wonder how much better the projectors would look with woman models showcasing them?

I couldn't help but wish for a little more ANSI contrast. I found the models looked a little flat and higher ANSI contrast would help the 3D effect.

I got an AE900 last thursday and got it set up and noticed a one thing that is starting to annoy me. I have a 92" diagonal matte white Da-lite screen(1.0 gain). The projector is mounted on a high shelf about 14 feet from the screen. My problem is the is a green spot about 10" diameter center at 25" from the right side and 11" from the bottom. This can only be seen in black or near black scenes but it's always there. Anyone see this?


Robert

If you move the projector does the green spot move as well or does it stay in a fixed position? Assuming that it moves with the projector, then the spot is probably caused by a dust blob.

It may be a problem with your Panasonic. I got an original AE500 with a large Green/Brown hazey spot on it, turned out it was defective and was replaced. If you are unhappy with it, return it for a replacement model

Chris

Ike (or anyone): is the aliminium frame on the Perm-Wall solid enough, that if i can't find anywhere on a wall to mount it, which i probably can't, that i would be able to screw in a few metal supports (Legs of some sort) and have it mounted on them. IE: Is the frame flimsy and likley to bend at all if i do this?

Thanks

The aluminum frame with the Da Lite Perm Wall screen is not solid in every direction - meaning, it's very easy to get itself out of square. The wall you attach it to plays a large role in squaring up the frame. If it wasn't firmly attached to the wall, I think even with the screen snapped in place, the frame would sag and distort the screen material - especially the HCCV material which is very "stretchy".

I am setting up my first time HT. I’m thinking about getting the AE900. My first choice for mounting it is on a shelf 25’ from a 10’ wide wall. This is a basement light controlled room. I’ll probably paint a screen (DIY LF). From the 25’ distance, the smallest image calculates out to just over 9’x5’ or 124” diag. I’ve seen some post here with people talking about 130” who are evidently getting good results. I’ve also heard that any thing over 120” and picture quality falls off fast. I’d be interested in any opinions about optimum picture size.

Thanks

I noticed this forum metioned the Toshiba MT700. I just bought one a few months ago and am noticing a shadow effect on the left side of the image. When I use the zoom feature on the lens it still stays on the image. If I reduce the ratio size then it is gone. Any Ideas? Thanks!

I am setting up my first time HT. I’m thinking about getting the AE900. My first choice for mounting it is on a shelf 25’ from a 10’ wide wall. This is a basement light controlled room. I’ll probably paint a screen (DIY LF). From the 25’ distance, the smallest image calculates out to just over 9’x5’ or 124” diag. I’ve seen some post here with people talking about 130” who are evidently getting good results. I’ve also heard that any thing over 120” and picture quality falls off fast. I’d be interested in any opinions about optimum picture size.

Thanks

OK My room is 26' x 18' x9' but I am able to go to about 23.5' with a custom soffit I am creating for the projector. I am going with a 1.4 gain screen. My diagonal will be 116" for 16:9 though the actual screen is a 146" 2.35:1. I may be going with the Z4 but it's about the same. The great thing about the painted screen is that you can always go a bit smaller if you wanted later which could be important at this size as the bulb dims over time. You also have the option of starting in eco lamp mode and moving to high lamp later on as well. Make sure to get a fairly high gain paint.

It also depends on the room wall treatment. Is it going to be black, at least dark or white? Having a dark room is so important to realizing the contrast improvements on this year's models.

You may also want to take a look at the Sanyo Z4. Ekkehart aka Cine4Home has a great review on his site of the Z4 and mentions how well that projector translates to larger screens with the manual iris adjustments. Just a thought.

I noticed this forum metioned the Toshiba MT700. I just bought one a few months ago and am noticing a shadow effect on the left side of the image. When I use the zoom feature on the lens it still stays on the image. If I reduce the ratio size then it is gone. Any Ideas? Thanks!

You might try starting your own thread on this in the Under 3500 forum since this is off-topic

The great thing about the painted screen is that you can always go a bit smaller if you wanted later which could be important at this size as the bulb dims over time.

That's the rub. At 25' I can't go smaller because I'd be at the limit of the zoom.

On the front of the projector is a joystick that can be used easily to move the image. It locks and unlocks by screwing it down.


Thanks Joe, I know it uses a joystick, but I'm curious about how the joystick works. Is it like a video game controller thumb stick that moves around in any direction? And is it analog in that the farther from center you move it the faster the lens shift moves? Would it be easy to move the image up exactly 3 inches or would it take 5 minutes of back and forth to get the image positioned where you want it?

Oriphus,

HDMI upscaling? Thats cool. What is the de-interlacer in that one? My system is ok. I sold my iScan HD because I couldn't justify it for now. Tried DVI but my cheap cable eventually did the sparklies...so boo hoo, back to VGA but frankly I didn't notice much difference. I'm using an iScan Ultra with my Hitachi TX100. Sent it back because it was faulty, as it had bad vertical banding and one particularly bad vertical band which stuck out more than the others. Apparantly I'm getting a brand new replacement. I await its arrival. I'll probably upgrade though. I would consider an AE900 but I'm likely going for a TX200.

I wonder if the AE900 will remain the contrast/black level king for the money? This is their second generation with dynamic iris, so I am wondering. Especially with the frame by frame gamma correction. I wonder how all the other projectors like the TX200/Z4/Epson projectors will compare.

:)

Anyone found an online manual for the 900 yet?

Anyone else thinkng about taking the plunge and purchasing overseas? I'm not going to violate my own forum rules, just curious. It's a gamble, but my AE500 was great. Other than the Japanese OSD of course ;)

I haven't found the manual online yet, but I can tell you that there's probably less than 2% of it that's different from the AE700 manual (and most of that has to do with the new remote). ;)

Thanks Mike. I swear, if only they had added the stretch modes to 720 and 1080 signals like Sanyo did.

Yes I am quite tempted....Just how bad is dealing with the Japanese OSD? I could easily buy 2 overseas and still have enough coin left over for a McDonald's dinner here in CanadaAnyone else thinkng about taking the plunge and purchasing overseas? I'm not going to violate my own forum rules, just curious. It's a gamble, but my AE500 was great. Other than the Japanese OSD of course ;)

Thanks Mike. I swear, if only they had added the stretch modes to 720 and 1080 signals like Sanyo did.I saw a review (I believe it was CKL's) of the Z4 where they layed out the stretch modes and I didn't see any that would work with an anamorphic lens with 720p or 1080i input. The only one that I thought came close stretched horizontally at the same time as it stretched vertically.

--Darin

Also, considering that this unit is above others, in terms of lack of sde at close range, they should have really thought of adding that 720p/1080i stretch mode to complement CH setups and larger sreens. I thought that was a crucial mistake...but again the price...

Anyone else thinkng about taking the plunge and purchasing overseas? I'm not going to violate my own forum rules, just curious. It's a gamble, but my AE500 was great. Other than the Japanese OSD of course ;)

I just got my AE900. Had not had time to deal with it yet, but I on the menu it does have several choices for different languages. I of course chose English. But from that I guess the models selling overseas would have the same multiple-language menu.

I just got my AE900. Had not had time to deal with it yet, but I on the menu it does have several choices for different languages. I of course chose English. But from that I guess the models selling overseas would have the same multiple-language menu.

From what I understand, the units from overseas (Japan) have the English OSD locked out on their firmware to disuade people like myself from wanting to import them. My first projector, an AE300, I imported and had no issues with selecting the English OSD.

It makes sense.

I was in Tokyo 3 weeks ago and saw the AE700 in Akihabara selling for 1/2 what I need to pay here in the US. Very tempting but didn't get it because the OSD lauguage issue (plus the AE900 was starting to ship)

Madpoet, A friend of mine bought a Z3 overseas from Japan. Shipped in 2 days, he's had it for a year with no issues. It does have an English OSD but I know the Pannys have Japanese only OSDs. I myself will more than likely buy it from Japan. They cost twice us much up here in Canada.

Seb

The aluminum frame with the Da Lite Perm Wall screen is not solid in every direction - meaning, it's very easy to get itself out of square. The wall you attach it to plays a large role in squaring up the frame. If it wasn't firmly attached to the wall, I think even with the screen snapped in place, the frame would sag and distort the screen material - especially the HCCV material which is very "stretchy".

Thanks Ike, thats gonna be a concern to me now. I wonder if any of the manufacturers have a set of legs for their fixed screens. I know that Stewarts do one for their fixed screen, which i believe is excellent (especially the Firehawk and Studiotek 130), but do Da-Lite, Carada or Draper have any equivalent


HDMI upscaling? Thats cool. What is the de-interlacer in that one? My system is ok. I sold my iScan HD because I couldn't justify it for now. Tried DVI but my cheap cable eventually did the sparklies

Yeah, the HDMI Upscaling is supposed to be truely great on this machine. As is the DVD-A and SACD full playback at a very high quality. Im not sure what the de-interlacer chip is, but i believe it has a 216MHz/12-bit video DAC which apparently gives awesome images. Speaking from experience, the image does look 100% quality. I only wonder what the 216MHz/14-bit video DAC on the DV9600 offers in picture quality thats better than this?

Chris

...can you tell me how the project would handle, if it can at all, the following situations on an upscaling DVD player?

1. 4:3 content - When played through an upscaling player, it stretches it to fill the whole 16:9 panel and everyone is short and fat. Is there a way to make it 4:3 again?

2. Letterbox DVDs - When played through a upscaling player, again, it stretches it to fill the 16:9 panel which makes everyone EXTREMELY short and fat. What is needed here is not just 4:3 but a 4:3 ZOOM. This is available on 480p.

Since this was posted there's been some discussion about modes for constant height setups (I think -- I'm pretty new to projectors), but I don't think anyone ever answered these questions for sure. I'd be very interested to know, if any 900 owners can shed some light on the subject. My current widescreen Samsung CRT HDTV "locks" the aspect ratio to Wide on anything 480p or higher and it's REALLY annoying. When you want to watch a 4:3 or non-anamorphic DVD, it just streches it to the full width of the screen and there's nothing you can do.

So does the 900 ever lock you into an aspect ratio/picture mode? It would be nice if it never did (for upconverting players outputting 720p/1080i), but if you can at least control the aspect ratio on 480p I would be happy.

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

You've asked this question enough times. Anyone care to address it?

If not, maybe Toshiba is the way to go you.

You've asked this question enough times. Anyone care to address it?

If not, maybe Toshiba is the way to go you.

Yup, isamu has - so here is a qualified answer.

The 700 has a JUST mode which *does* horizontally stretch 4:3 source to fill the 16:9 display so I would be surprised if the 900 does not.

Don't all modern displays do this?
Now to be a pain in the tush (part of my resume):

Yuck.
Why?
OAR is the truth. ;)

ted

Actually they did claim that at CEDIA - it was posted on the ae900 pre-release thread somewhere by someone who spoke to a Panasonic engineer at the exhibition.


Liam

(RE: VB improvements in 900)

That's good to know. I'll be interested to hear how well they managed from 900 owners who have had, or are familiar with, the 700's VB. My 700 seems to have much less of a regular VB problem than many other folks, although it has the same problem with gruesome VB if left in "standby mode" (AC not cut off from the unit) that so many have complained of.

KongFan

The Panny keeps the aspect ratio it is fed by default. In other words, 4:3 is presented at 4:3 with grey bars on each side, 16:9 is full screen, and 2.35:1 movies have bars above and below the picture. The Panny can also be set to stretch the images to fill the screen. This does distort or crop the picture though so I don't recommend it. I have not actually attempted stretching the picture on my projector and I likely will not in the future.

Joe M.

I got an AE900 last thursday and got it set up and noticed a one thing that is starting to annoy me. I have a 92" diagonal matte white Da-lite screen(1.0 gain). The projector is mounted on a high shelf about 14 feet from the screen. My problem is the is a green spot about 10" diameter center at 25" from the right side and 11" from the bottom. This can only be seen in black or near black scenes but it's always there. Anyone see this?


Robert

My 700 has two such spots, both of which are green, but much smaller than yours (2 1/2"). Mine are clearly dust specks, presumably on one of the dichroic mirrors. This is a little hard to explain, but the color system works by combining all colors to create black, and so a speck on, say, the "red" dichroic mirror blocks that portion of the color spectrum, and green is what passes through where it would otherwise be black (OK, dark gray!). If you have this problem, still-frame a revealing shot, and substantially defocus your image until you've thrown your LCDs way out of focus and brought the plane of the (alledged) speck into focus. If you have the same thing as I do, you'll see the faint green disc narrow into focus until it's a blazing, well-defined speck of dust. Your particular throw distance may prevent you from bringing it perfectly into focus. You'll see zillions of others, in all three colors, but only the largest "supernovas" among them create a speck bright enough to be visibly bright when enlarged and thrown so far out of focus while the lens is focused on the LCD plane.

Make sense? Even a person not experiencing this problem can get quite a jolt by bringing the mirrors into focus and seeing how much crap accumulates on them.

No matter what you've got going on, it sounds like you shouldn't have to live with it, considering you just got the damn thing out of the box. I managed to get the inside poop on how to remove these specks relatively safely, and just haven't gotten around to opening my 700 (and swiftly voiding my warranty). If I were you, though, and you find your problem to be as I've described, I'd just demand another unit ASAP.

Good luck

KongFan

As good as my current Panny AE700 is, I'm hoping the AE900 does fix one annoying problem.

Vertical banding is practically nill, VERY faint. My problem is whenever the camera pans around, the image becomes noisy. Almost as if my screen is dirty and needs a good wash. I have no waves on my tensioned screen, besides waves are not my issue. It's only when the camera pans (regardless of whether I'm watching HD from my HDMI-out DVR cable box, or HDMI-out from my upsampling DVD player).

This "dirty-screen" effect whenever the camera pans is what has me wondering. Does the AE900 fix this problem?

p.s. it's not screen door, or vertical banding. Is this called motion dithering?

Hello together...

We got lots of emails, if and when we start testing the PT900...
We are starting our PT-AE900 tests today... ;-)
I am as curious how the machine performs as you are.


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Its probably worth mentioning that not all VB is projector related as Ike can contend to. If you are getting some VB on the PT-AE900, be sure to check it against a blank wall or something else to confirm it is not your screen before posting that it still has a VB issue in this latest model, which panasonic have said has been completed iradicated...

Chris

So to be clear since we are discussing stretch modes... have any owners confirmed the the AE900 cannot stretch 720p or 1080i content vertically for a CH setup? In other words, it can't stretch a 2.35:1 movie to fit a 16x9 screen, right?

Ekkehart,

Sounds good. We're all waiting for your results. I'm also waiting to hear how the Hitachi TX200 (UDPJ52) does in tests. Will you be testing that model too and comparing it with the others?

Rieper,

I don't know what you're seeing, but it could have to do with de-interlacing. What is your de-interlacer? I use an iScan and with the Panny AE100, L200 and the Hitachi PJ TX100 I can't recall seeing a terrible effect in pans. Pans never look 3D smooth, but they don't stand out as noisy either. What de-interlacing do you have?

Hello together...

We got lots of emails, if and when we start testing the PT900...
We are starting our PT-AE900 tests today... ;-)
I am as curious how the machine performs as you are.


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

are you done yet?????




:D

Its probably worth mentioning that not all VB is projector related as Ike can contend to. If you are getting some VB on the PT-AE900, be sure to check it against a blank wall or something else to confirm it is not your screen before posting that it still has a VB issue in this latest model, which panasonic have said has been completed iradicated...

Chris



Did they say that? Well from what I see on our test screen they should better rethink their statements...

Note: We are not testing any special optimised version but an "of the shelf" PT900..


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Ekkehart,

Sounds good. We're all waiting for your results. I'm also waiting to hear how the Hitachi TX200 (UDPJ52) does in tests. Will you be testing that model too and comparing it with the others?





Sure we will ;)

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.


As others have stated, it's been answered already....in fact, one member specificially addressed you and used your quote within the post. Please go back and read the answer.

Okay, I can now give a mini review of the 900. Got mine last night and have spent about three hours with it. :D

I will qualify this by saying that this is from a layman's perspective. I have no particular technical knowledge of projectors or video, but can give you an initial take on what the common folk might expect.

My last projector experience was 3 years with a Plus Piano he3100 (DLP), so this is the basis of my comments.

I'm using a 120" screen (Behr Ultra Pure White DIY). A Sony progressive DVD with component cables.

When I first turned the projector on, I was immediately impressed with the smoothness (resolution) and brightness. The Piano was 450lum, so this is a new game. I can now understand why I need dark walls. If this projector was in a room with white walls, you could perform surgery by the light.

I watched pieces of about 10 of my favorite demo movies. After the initial awe wore off, I was able to be a little more critical. I would say that at times the overall picture quality was roughly 10% better than the Piano and at other times it was as much as 50% better. I realize these are arbitrary numbers, so just think of them as gut feelings from a novice.

In very dark scenes (Cast Away), it was only 10% better. In bright scenes, it was maybe 20% better. The place that it shined the most was indoor moderately lit scenes (indoor scenes in "The Mask of Zorro"). I would say it was as much as 50% better here. The richness of color is amazing.

My overall impression, I must admit, was split depending on the material. Not that it isn't an improvement on my past projector, and not that it isn't a fantastic picture. I suppose I was expecting too much. I was expecting to have a puddle of drool in my lap. It's probably unreasonable at this price point. Another way to address the overall image quality is to say that I always felt that friends liked the size of the picture, but couldn't live with some of the other compromises. With this projector, I don't expect friends to see compromises. :)

The bulb blew in my Piano, and instead of spending $300 there, I decided it was time to upgrade. Was it a wise decision? I'll answer this way. If you are satisfied with your current projector and have other priorities for your money, don't upgrade. If money is a little more available and you feel some compromises with your current projector, then do it. I'm glad I did it, but now realize that my Piano was a pretty nice little unit.

I have not yet calibrated in any way, so I'm expected improvements as I can spend time with it.

Its probably worth mentioning that not all VB is projector related as Ike can contend to. If you are getting some VB on the PT-AE900, be sure to check it against a blank wall or something else to confirm it is not your screen before posting that it still has a VB issue in this latest model, which panasonic have said has been completed iradicated...

Chris

Chris,

Do you know what the term is when a camera pans and you see what appears to be a dirty screen? Is this called motion dithering?

I've asked several times, and so far no response.

Does the new PT900 have this "motion" problem whenever the camera pans in a movie/program? Seems like a dirty screen, even when your screen is brand new, less than a week old.

Thanks.

Okay, I can now give a mini review of the 900. Got mine last night and have spent about three hours with it. :D




Tony, I will ask you the same question since you are very descriptive in your mini-review.

Do you notice any noise, like a dirty screen, whenever a camera pans in a movie/program when you watch on your new Pansonic AE-900U projector?

I'm thinking of upgrading from my Panny AE700 if this problem is fixed.

Thanks.

Did they say that? Well from what I see on our test screen they should better rethink their statements...

Note: We are not testing any special optimised version but an "of the shelf" PT900..


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

so does this mean you are seeing significant VB with your unit?

Chris,

Do you know what the term is when a camera pans and you see what appears to be a dirty screen? Is this called motion dithering?

I've asked several times, and so far no response.

Does the new PT900 have this "motion" problem whenever the camera pans in a movie/program? Seems like a dirty screen, even when your screen is brand new, less than a week old.

Thanks.


Motion dithering is seen when there is quick camera movements in any direction, and i think, but could be wrong, that it has something to do with the image processing of whatever device you use, and not just the projector. Ie: if you have a good upscaler, this could be a solution. I'll be getting mine on Saturday or Monday, so i can comment on this with certain scenes ill test it on.

Also, i've got samples on the way of screens from Da-Lite, Draper, Carada and hopefully stewart. The samples are all 24"x24" so i should be able to do a good comparison of this particular projector with the different screens.

The screens i will be receiving are:
Draper m1300 and High Def Grey
Da-Lite HC Cinema Vision, Cinema Vision and Da-Mat
Carada in the Matte White and High Contrast screens
Stewart Studiotek 130 and the Firehawk

Should be an interesting comparison. I'll try to calibrate my Canon Pro1 to take photos of the images produced. This may be next weekend before i get a chance to do that.

Thanks
Chris

Tony, I will ask you the same question since you are very descriptive in your mini-review.

Do you notice any noise, like a dirty screen, whenever a camera pans in a movie/program when you watch on your new Pansonic AE-900U projector?

I'm thinking of upgrading from my Panny AE700 if this problem is fixed.

Thanks.

I don't notice it.

Anyone know if the mounting holes are the same for the 900 as the 700?

Yup, exactly the same place.

Also interestingly, they seem to have resolved the noisey fan issue when the projector is inverted. Set one up last night on my AE700 universal mount and didnt have to make any adjustments. Went into the set up to put lamp on high to see how noisey it was only to find out it already was

Sen

Received a small piece of the Draper m1300 (another larger 2ftx2ft is on its way) and i have to say, the material feels exceptional compared to other screens i've looked at.

I'll update how they are all with the Ae900 when it comes

The fixed dirty/noisey look to the screen that you see is NOT motion dithering. I have almost no idea what motion dithering is, but it is not fixed pattern noise. Motion dithering is a less than perfect display of colours and transitions from one colour to another, or from one shade to another in objects that you see during camera motion. No idea what causes it, but I think its mostly identified with DLP projectors. The fixed pattern noise you see is just that, a non-moving pattern of noise on the lcd panels. It can be seen when the image moves, because the motion of the image makes the faint noise on the image stand out as an artifact unto itself. Quite honestly, I've seen it on all the LCD projectors I've used and it is the least of my worries. Its so vaguely visible that it doesn't bother me. It may vary for different projector setups and for different peoples taste. Don't panic. Calibrate your projector and enjoy and don't look for it. Unless its really bad and it needs to be corrected or taken care of under warranty, its just another part of LCD viewing and not worth losing sleep over.

Are the mounting holes the 3 holes in a triangular pattern with the brass threads?

<<Are the mounting holes the 3 holes in a triangular pattern with the brass threads?>>


Yes.

Quite honestly, I've seen it on all the LCD projectors I've used and it is the least of my worries. Its so vaguely visible that it doesn't bother me. It may vary for different projector setups and for different peoples taste. Don't panic. Calibrate your projector and enjoy and don't look for it. Unless its really bad and it needs to be corrected or taken care of under warranty, its just another part of LCD viewing and not worth losing sleep over.

Bothers the hell out of me, especially during sporting events, where there is CONSTANT camera motion.

It's like you want to get up can clean the darn screen, even when you know its brand new not a scratch on it.

I guess we all have our pet peeves, and mine's just happen to be a dirty screen artifacts (FPN).

Fair enough. I'm not doubting that it bothers you. If I watch sports I'll probably see the same thing on my projector too. I've never looked into whether anything can be done to reduce the fpn on LCD projectors. I think the best thing that can be done is to calibrate your projector as best as possible so that you may notice the fpn less. Who knows.