Yeah, I have a 6600 as well.

We're on the same page about video vs PC levels I suspect... I like to ensure that contrast is set to allow white above 235 without clipping....



So my suspicions had some merit.
It is one of the reasons I have yet to upgrade the drivers for my 6600GT since it is only used for DVD playback.

As to the black level thing. I'm a VIDEO guy and believe it or not we *do* differentiate between Studio black and PC black. With new PC based systems we quite often deal with issues created by many PC people not realizing that the reference points *are* different for both systems.

ted

I can't locate a source but I believe I've read that D5 panel respond (rise / fall) in the 12 ms range which should be enough unless you are unusually sensitive.

If it is Source/Scaler related you might solve it with a new player. Since you mention HDMI - what transport are you using? An upscaling player over DVI/HDMI at 720p *will* bypass the Panasonic's internal scaler. If you can purchase a unit with a refund guarantee it is certainly worth a shot. An HDMI cable in itself offers nothing with regards to your issue. HDMI is digital - it does not suffer from the issues of Analog transport methods.

Have you tried playback from a PC though vidcards can have their own issues.
Is NR OFF? Have you played with the SHARPEN control?

You also did not answer my questions with regards to original 30fps VIDEO source - not counting the XBOX here.

Ultimately you might be a sensitive guy.

ted

Ok regarding you 30fps VIDEO source Q. I dont have any to try. I am in Australia and here we have 25fps with everything.

Yes NR is off.

You ask what transport i am using? I dont totally understand the question( bit of a noob) but i think the answer is component? Using Blue Jeans component cables. Thats the best my DVD player has to offer.

Ultimately you might be a sensitive guy.

Its looking that way :(

So there is nothing out there that can smooth out motion judder at all? Other than a CRT projector that is.lol

You ask what transport i am using? I dont totally understand the question( bit of a noob) but i think the answer is component? Using Blue Jeans component cables. Thats the best my DVD player has to offer.

That's the way I understand it. :)

Are you sending the pj 480i or 480p? This is important as it relates to which unit does the deinterlacing of the DVD source.

So there is nothing out there that can smooth out motion judder at all? Other than a CRT projector that is.lol

Ok, now you've confused me a tad. Judder refers to the stacatto or "stepped" (non-uniform) motion that can happen as a result of Inverse Telecine which is applied to 24 fps film source to allow it to conform to the 30 fps that NTSC video requires. See this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine) which will explain the process. Now you are in the PAL world which handles PAL source differently, see "PAL Speedup" from this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL). The net of this is with PAL source on a PAL system "judder" should not be experienced.

The way around judder is for a display to use a vertical refresh rate that is a multiple of source. 50 hz, 100hz et al for PAL video and 25fps film source. For 24 fps film this would be 48 hz, 72hz et al. Most fixed panel displays do not have the facility to run at different vertical rates as multisynch CRT's do.
120 hz would be ideal as it is a multiple of current existing rate for all film as well as PAL, NTSC, and SECAM frame rates. With this vertical rate there would no longer be hesitant jerky pans. Ain't gonna happen soon.

So it may be a misunderstanding of terms here.

"Motion blur" would refer to the fact that film capture shutter speeds are slow in relation to motion so each individual frame is slightly blurred (you've likely seen photos with this "smearing" effect) when action captured is too fast for the shutter/exposure. NTSC video, since it has a capture rate of 1/60th second FIELD rate and PAL Video which has a field rate of 1/50th a second is better in this regard. It is why many see Video as "sharper" than Film though the actual resolved detail is considerably lower than original negative film.

LCD lag is a different artifact wherein the panel response time (rise/fall) basically retains the image longer than the actual source frame. It is similar to "motion blur" but is induced by the display not the source. Again anything below 16ms response time should be enough as this is faster than source frame rates.

Now that I've just built you this information house of cards, I suggest you try playing your CINEMA REALITY settings as well as making sure WSS is set since you are doing PAL (Your Owner's Manual will be helpful here). I would also make sure that the Flicker settings are as good as they can be as they affect the timing relationships between the individual panels and can have a real impact on the impression of sharpness. If your player is progressive capable, switch between the settings and see what happens - I'm not of Panasonic's deinterlacer/scaler and feel the unit performs better with a progressive signal.

I also do suggest hooking up a PC (since VGA and Component are basically the same) or beg/borrow an upscaling player and try that out.

There are also a few users on the 900 who hail from PAL countries - why not compare notes?

ted

My PJ has about 50 hours. Its running low lamp, low fan. Last night during a movie there was randon flickering in brightness, mostly seen in bright scenes. It didn't look like an iris thing and it was random, even when the scene brightness wasn't changing.

I seem to recall discussion on previous Panny models about the lamp needing to re-establish the contact patches internally and being run in high power for a while to fix this. Anyone recall anything?

I note the message below never received a reply...


hey guys, i have about 900 hours on my panny ae900 and the brightness power seems to be flickering randomly. Sometimes it will flicker 10 times in a row and then nothing for 2 hours and then it will just flicker from bright to something a bit darker for a minute and then go back to normal. Has anyone else had this happen to them? fyi, I've disabled auto-iris. Could the bulb be shot?

thx

I have the same issue! Only 100 hours.

Ok, now you've confused me a tad. Judder refers to the stacatto or "stepped" (non-uniform) motion that can happen as a result of Inverse Telecine which is applied to 24 fps film source to allow it to conform to the 30 fps that NTSC video requires. See this link which will explain the process. Now you are in the PAL world which handles PAL source differently, see "PAL Speedup" from this link. The net of this is with PAL source on a PAL system "judder" should not be experienced.

The way around judder is for a display to use a vertical refresh rate that is a multiple of source. 50 hz, 100hz et al for PAL video and 25fps film source. For 24 fps film this would be 48 hz, 72hz et al. Most fixed panel displays do not have the facility to run at different vertical rates as multisynch CRT's do.
120 hz would be ideal as it is a multiple of current existing rate for all film as well as PAL, NTSC, and SECAM frame rates. With this vertical rate there would no longer be hesitant jerky pans. Ain't gonna happen soon.

So it may be a misunderstanding of terms here.

"Motion blur" would refer to the fact that film capture shutter speeds are slow in relation to motion so each individual frame is slightly blurred (you've likely seen photos with this "smearing" effect) when action captured is too fast for the shutter/exposure. NTSC video, since it has a capture rate of 1/60th second FIELD rate and PAL Video which has a field rate of 1/50th a second is better in this regard. It is why many see Video as "sharper" than Film though the actual resolved detail is considerably lower than original negative film.

LCD lag is a different artifact wherein the panel response time (rise/fall) basically retains the image longer than the actual source frame. It is similar to "motion blur" but is induced by the display not the source. Again anything below 16ms response time should be enough as this is faster than source frame rates.

Now that I've just built you this information house of cards, I suggest you try playing your CINEMA REALITY settings as well as making sure WSS is set since you are doing PAL (Your Owner's Manual will be helpful here). I would also make sure that the Flicker settings are as good as they can be as they affect the timing relationships between the individual panels and can have a real impact on the impression of sharpness. If your player is progressive capable, switch between the settings and see what happens - I'm not of Panasonic's deinterlacer/scaler and feel the unit performs better with a progressive signal.

I also do suggest hooking up a PC (since VGA and Component are basically the same) or beg/borrow an upscaling player and try that out.

There are also a few users on the 900 who hail from PAL countries - why not compare notes?

ted
Thanks Ted, Sorry to confuse you. I didn't know what judder was before and thought it was the same thing as motion blur.

I don't have judder in that case. As you say because i have PAL then judder is not a problem.

So yeah, its motion blur i have. My DVD player is sending a 480i signal to the PJ.Funny thing is my PJ is showing the incoming signal as 576i in the PJ menu?Is that normal? But i am not sure that is the problem because my Xbox 360 can send a 720P signal and it too is showing motion blur. But that might be different ???

Ok so forgetting the Xbox. Do you think having the PJ doing the upconverting from 480i could be part of the problem?

Also what do you mean by playing my CINEMA REALITY settings as well as making sure WSS is set? I have tried CINEMA REALITY on and off with no difference at all. Not even sure if its working?Its on at the moment anyway. And WSS? Thats just so the PJ will auto select aspect ratios right? I have that off at the moment and just have the PJ set in 16:9 mode.

Oh and you mention Flicker settings? I don't know if the PAL AE900 even has this? No mention of it in the operating instructions? I don't really understand this Flicker setting you speak of?

Thanks ;)

How can you tell if the panels are out of alignnment? I have used panel adjust to get rid of most VB, but there is still some VB on the green panel. It gets better the higher the setting, but the setting stops at 17.

I've read another post of a guy who returned 2 that had VB, but they weren't better and 1 was even worse. So I'm afraid to return it, which could be a hassle and might end up worse.

display a test pattern, I can see a 1-2 pixel mis alignment of the red panel (you can see a red line next to the 'white' lines). Easy to fix with my crt pj, have to send the ae900 in for repair or replacement.

Dave

My dad's 900 seems to have some pixel misalignment 1/2 - 1 pixel misalignment to the left of red and 1/2 - 1 pixel misalignment up of blue (if I'm remembering correctly). I don't really find this objectionable since it's impossible to see it from viewing distance, and at the moment he's using extreme lens shift downward which could be introducing the alignment problems. Once the screen is shifted up a bit and the shift isn't as bad it may not be as large a misalignment. As I said, though, it's invisible from actual viewing distance.

My PJ has about 50 hours. Its running low lamp, low fan. Last night during a movie there was randon flickering in brightness, mostly seen in bright scenes. It didn't look like an iris thing and it was random, even when the scene brightness wasn't changing.

I seem to recall discussion on previous Panny models about the lamp needing to re-establish the contact patches internally and being run in high power for a while to fix this. Anyone recall anything?

I note the message below never received a reply...

I think I either read it earlier in this thread or in the tweak thread that running the lamp at high power for approximately 8 hours tended to clear up this problem.

So yeah, its motion blur i have. My DVD player is sending a 480i signal to the PJ.Funny thing is my PJ is showing the incoming signal as 576i in the PJ menu?Is that normal? But i am not sure that is the problem because my Xbox 360 can send a 720P signal and it too is showing motion blur. But that might be different ???

Many Xbox 360 games have motion blur as a feature.

Have you tried playing a DVD in 720p from the 360?

iggymama or anyone else--
Sorry to jump in here. I'll be buying the 900 in a few weeks and would like to wall mount it rather than ceiling mount it. My current projector (Infocus X1) is wall mounted with a Mandarax mount and I really like that setup. My seating is nearly up against the rear wall so I can't use a book case shelf; I want to mount it right on the wall. I have found lots on ceiling mounts but nothing useful on wall mounting. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

iggymama or anyone else--
Sorry to jump in here. I'll be buying the 900 in a few weeks and would like to wall mount it rather than ceiling mount it. My current projector (Infocus X1) is wall mounted with a Mandarax mount and I really like that setup. My seating is nearly up against the rear wall so I can't use a book case shelf; I want to mount it right on the wall. I have found lots on ceiling mounts but nothing useful on wall mounting. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

I have seen mounts at BestBuy.com, but I have not actually looked at them:

Vantage Point 3-Shelf Wall-Mount A/V Component Rack - Silver
Model: AXWG03-S, on sale now for 135.

I personally cut a hole in both sides of the wall between the living room and a hallway, and built a custom wooden stained and finished box. I installed moulding to cover the cut plywood ends and between the box and the wall, and stapled a brown Tapa cloth from Tonga Tapu (made from the bark of a tree, with designs, pictures of animals and Tongan writing!) to the wall around it to reduce reflections from the white wall.

I wanted something that wouldn't stick out too much from the wall and hit us in the back of the head when we lean the recliners back, so I could mount the PJ as low as possible for the retroreflective screen. Maybe I will post a photo!

Thanks for the reply, iggymama. Your idea sounds really nice. The wall that shares the studs with my rear HT wall is a wall in my garage, so I may not want to use exactly your idea, but you've got me thinking. Thanks, and if you can post a photo, that would be great.

Thanks for the reply, iggymama. Your idea sounds really nice. The wall that shares the studs with my rear HT wall is a wall in my garage, so I may not want to use exactly your idea, but you've got me thinking. Thanks, and if you can post a photo, that would be great.

Yeah, you don't have to cut through both sides of the wall, it will just stick out at least a foot more. Plus, I can go into the hallway and look through the hole to line up the PJ to the screen and focus it from the back side, and I have easy access to all the cables! I tacked a flap from the piece of Tapa Cloth that I cut out over the back side, so the light from the hallway won't shine through the hole. I used velcro to roll it up out of the way when I want to get to everything.

I have the PJ sitting on top of the new Sony S75 upconv. DVD player with a Monoprice 6' HDMI cable to connect them. I also have my HD MOXI box for Hi Def TV connected with a 25 foot component cable to my PJ, which looks GREAT. The sound for the DVD player runs through a coax cable back to my Receiver which is on the wall unit behind the PJ screen, along with a DVD changer, the MOXI box, a regular cable box, an LG HD tuner, a Panny 120G DVD Recorder, 2 VCRs (which I rarely use any more) and a Sammy 56" DLP TV!

I am using a $40 one-for-all 8 device remote with an RF unit to get the remote to go through the screen and control the MOXI box and receiver. Nice remote (off the internet). I use a Harmony remote for everything else (so the hubby can figure it out without going nuts!).

Gotta spend my paycheck on something fun, right?

I have seen mounts at BestBuy.com, but I have not actually looked at them:

Vantage Point 3-Shelf Wall-Mount A/V Component Rack - Silver
Model: AXWG03-S, on sale now for 135.

I personally cut a hole in both sides of the wall between the living room and a hallway, and built a custom wooden stained and finished box. I installed moulding to cover the cut plywood ends and between the box and the wall, and stapled a brown Tapa cloth from Tonga Tapu (made from the bark of a tree, with designs, pictures of animals and Tongan writing!) to the wall around it to reduce reflections from the white wall.

I wanted something that wouldn't stick out too much from the wall and hit us in the back of the head when we lean the recliners back, so I could mount the PJ as low as possible for the retroreflective screen. Maybe I will post a photo!

I used a small tv mount from homedepot. twenty five dollars and twenty minutes of work and I had a wall mounted pj which is mounted about 25% lower than the top of my screen. I like the easy access to the unit for cleaning the filter and the arm swings side to side for easy centering.

Dave

just received the panny in the mail

which color filter do I get?

Dave--
That mount sounds like it might be just what I'm looking for. Do you have the brand or model no.? I don't have a Home Depot near me, but I could get to one this weekend. Thanks.

Gerry

Dave--
That mount sounds like it might be just what I'm looking for. Do you have the brand or model no.? I don't have a Home Depot near me, but I could get to one this weekend. Thanks.

Gerry

I will see if I still have the box.

Dave

I will see if I still have the box.

Dave

Gerry,

From the box:

AVF Vector TV Wall mount 350
sku: 52752 03509

13-17" TVs up to 66 lbs

happy hunting!

Dave

Thanks Ted, Sorry to confuse you. I didn't know what judder was before and thought it was the same thing as motion blur.

I don't have judder in that case. As you say because i have PAL then judder is not a problem.

So yeah, its motion blur i have. My DVD player is sending a 480i signal to the PJ.Funny thing is my PJ is showing the incoming signal as 576i in the PJ menu?Is that normal? But i am not sure that is the problem because my Xbox 360 can send a 720P signal and it too is showing motion blur. But that might be different ???

Ok so forgetting the Xbox. Do you think having the PJ doing the upconverting from 480i could be part of the problem?

Also what do you mean by playing my CINEMA REALITY settings as well as making sure WSS is set? I have tried CINEMA REALITY on and off with no difference at all. Not even sure if its working?Its on at the moment anyway. And WSS? Thats just so the PJ will auto select aspect ratios right? I have that off at the moment and just have the PJ set in 16:9 mode.

Oh and you mention Flicker settings? I don't know if the PAL AE900 even has this? No mention of it in the operating instructions? I don't really understand this Flicker setting you speak of?

Thanks ;)

Gee, I hate to blame you for the issue but what is left? ;)

Cinema Reality is what Panasonic calls its Inverse Telecine processing. It makes sure that the 2:3 and 2:2 timing cadence necessary for film to video timings are applied correctly. I try to minimise the work that my 700 does, hence I feed it progressive signals thus avoiding the onboard processing the pj does. As to WSS - I'm a great believer in Auto Aspect - except where it is wrong - so I just recommend it generally. With regards to the Flicker settings, the menu layout on the 900 is different than the 700 so I'm not sure where to find them, but I would be very surprised if they were not on PAL machines as this involves the phasing (timing) between the individual panels and how the panel clocks step the panels. Even small phase errors can create subtle scanline errors which impact on the pj's impression of "sharpness". Anyone who wants to disagree can check this out themselves or drop by my place and I will point it out to them. :p I can make a subtly "blurry" picture appear sharper simply by manipulating the flicker settings.

Again, I think the scaler/telecine pulldown processing in the Panasonic leaves a little to be desired. There are considerably better solutions. Feeding it a progressive source is a start. Feeding it a 720p source would be ideal - though I would prefer something other than the XBOX. Before you throw in the towel, beg or borrow an upscaling player and try out a DVI or HDMI transport with a reference DVD. If you do not have AVIA or DVE for calibration then something like The Fifth Element. Again if you can, hook up your PC to the unit - I think you should try a better transport than Component if possible. To that end, I know there are users of PAL machines that do not have these issues.

If it is towel time and you can't return the unit, have Panasonic look at it. Have you looked at the sources you own on other PJs btw? That might be enlightening.

I wish you luck, and check your DVD's on another player/pj if possible.
ted

Thanks very much, Dave. I appreciate it.

just received the panny in the mail

which color filter do I get?

That depends on your requirements. I use an 81EF on my 700 but there are alternatives depending on your willingness to trade lumens for Contrast.

Check the tweak thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589234) first. All the info you need is contained therein.

ted

Yeah I saw that too, but I also noted another comment about an earlier model where someone found it was cured after removing the PJ from its mount, then later reinstalling it. It seemed that the movement may have reestablished some contacts or something.

Problem is, the question comes up often enough, but I have yet to see a definitive answer to it.

Might have to start a thread about just this issue...


I think I either read it earlier in this thread or in the tweak thread that running the lamp at high power for approximately 8 hours tended to clear up this problem.

Gee, I hate to blame you for the issue but what is left? ;)

Cinema Reality is what Panasonic calls its Inverse Telecine processing. It makes sure that the 2:3 and 2:2 timing cadence necessary for film to video timings are applied correctly. I try to minimise the work that my 700 does, hence I feed it progressive signals thus avoiding the onboard processing the pj does. As to WSS - I'm a great believer in Auto Aspect - except where it is wrong - so I just recommend it generally. With regards to the Flicker settings, the menu layout on the 900 is different than the 700 so I'm not sure where to find them, but I would be very surprised if they were not on PAL machines as this involves the phasing (timing) between the individual panels and how the panel clocks step the panels. Even small phase errors can create subtle scanline errors which impact on the pj's impression of "sharpness". Anyone who wants to disagree can check this out themselves or drop by my place and I will point it out to them. :p I can make a subtly "blurry" picture appear sharper simply by manipulating the flicker settings.

Again, I think the scaler/telecine pulldown processing in the Panasonic leaves a little to be desired. There are considerably better solutions. Feeding it a progressive source is a start. Feeding it a 720p source would be ideal - though I would prefer something other than the XBOX. Before you throw in the towel, beg or borrow an upscaling player and try out a DVI or HDMI transport with a reference DVD. If you do not have AVIA or DVE for calibration then something like The Fifth Element. Again if you can, hook up your PC to the unit - I think you should try a better transport than Component if possible. To that end, I know there are users of PAL machines that do not have these issues.

If it is towel time and you can't return the unit, have Panasonic look at it. Have you looked at the sources you own on other PJs btw? That might be enlightening.

I wish you luck, and check your DVD's on another player/pj if possible.
ted

Thanks for trying to help anyway ;)

I have tried my DVD's on my PC and that has a CRT monitor on it. I can see the motion blur on that too.

I have DVE but when i adjusted the picture on the PJ it looked horrible compared to the NORMAL picture setting in the PJ. So i just use NORMAL now. But it doesn't change the way i see the motion blur. All the picture settings show the same amount of blurring.

So until i can get another player to try there is not much else to blame but ME or the DVD disks. A few posts back Xavarri said many Xbox 360 games have motion blur as a feature. I am starting to think DVD's have some also. Oh and i don't think the Xbox 360 can upconvert a DVD to 720P anyway so that's not going work either.

Oh i tried a NTSC DVD last night and i think the motion blur was a bit less. Maybe because of NTSC being 30fps. All my PAL DVD's are 25fps. But the picture quality was worse with the NTSC :(

It would be too difficult to try out my PC with it also. Its just too much to setup.I might build/buy a HTPC one day though.

I have been noticing this motion blur will all different types of displays now. Not just the PJ. I think because the screen is so much bigger than i am used to it has now become obvious to my eyes :(

I am due for a DVD player upgrade anyway so when i can afford it i will get one regardless if it fixes the problem or not. Hopefully it can at least reduce the problem a bit.

Even if i can reduce the motion blur a bit i would be very happy.
Thanks ;)

OK, so I'm a little confused, should Cinema Reality be on if, for example, you're feeding the projector a DVD from the Oppo upconverting player over DVI?

OK, so I'm a little confused, should Cinema Reality be on if, for example, you're feeding the projector a DVD from the Oppo upconverting player over DVI?

Hey teiresias, While your here can i ask what the OPPO OPDV971H is like with the AE900? It dose PAL so i just might get one for my AE900 :D

I dont suppose you notice how well it deals with motion blur? Its a little problem i am trying to deal with.

Thanks bud ;)

I've got a problem where there are several horizontal colored bars that slowly scroll up the screen. They are very difficult to see unless the room is pitch black and there is a dark scene. It's definitely not the reception since you can see the bars over the cable box's menu as well, and it's not a faulty cable box (I've seen this problem across multiple cable boxes).

I'm currently running a HDMI cable from my receiver (Pioneer 74txvi) to the projector.

What does this problem sound like and how can I fix it? Could it be a cable issue? (I don't have another HDMI cable to try at the moment.) At first I thought this might be what people were calling vertical banding, but the description of that issue I read (http://www.projectorcentral.com/banding_rainbows.htm) doesn't seem to match this.

Any help would be appreciated!

I've got a problem where there are several horizontal colored bars that slowly scroll up the screen. They are very difficult to see unless the room is pitch black and there is a dark scene. It's definitely not the reception since you can see the bars over the cable box's menu as well, and it's not a faulty cable box (I've seen this problem across multiple cable boxes).

I'm currently running a HDMI cable from my receiver (Pioneer 74txvi) to the projector.

What does this problem sound like and how can I fix it? Could it be a cable issue? (I don't have another HDMI cable to try at the moment.) At first I thought this might be what people were calling vertical banding, but the description of that issue I read (http://www.projectorcentral.com/banding_rainbows.htm) doesn't seem to match this.

Any help would be appreciated!

Its a ground loop. Get a power conditioner and plug all your devices to it.

OK, so I'm a little confused, should Cinema Reality be on if, for example, you're feeding the projector a DVD from the Oppo upconverting player over DVI?

If you are feeding it a progressive source then Inverse Telecine processing has been performed by the deinterlacer in your feed component. So OFF in this case.

It should get out of the way if source is progressive. It would not be selectable on your menu. As I stated that processing is performed during the deintelacing stage.

My 700 manual clearly shows that it is in the processing stream if it is being fed an interlaced signal, I woud imagine you 900 manual would show the same.



ted

Thanks for trying to help anyway ;)

I have tried my DVD's on my PC and that has a CRT monitor on it. I can see the motion blur on that too.

Ok, you've ruined yourself for all eternity.
You're Australian, doesn't beer help? ;)

I have DVE but when i adjusted the picture on the PJ it looked horrible compared to the NORMAL picture setting in the PJ. So i just use NORMAL now. But it doesn't change the way i see the motion blur. All the picture settings show the same amount of blurring.

The calibration that would be most useful here would be BRIGHTNESS and CONTRAST settings. I assume you've done your homework and performed said tweaks with respect to blacker than black and whiter than white. If you haven't already done so, see this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=494606) for some background on my blather and hum. The main reason I asked about a calibration disc is that they are correctly encoded and have a mix of VIDEO and film source that is useful for viewing. Do you see the artifact on all clips on DVE?

So until i can get another player to try there is not much else to blame but ME or the DVD disks. A few posts back Xavarri said many Xbox 360 games have motion blur as a feature. I am starting to think DVD's have some also. Oh and i don't think the Xbox 360 can upconvert a DVD to 720P anyway so that's not going work either.

Oh i tried a NTSC DVD last night and i think the motion blur was a bit less. Maybe because of NTSC being 30fps. All my PAL DVD's are 25fps. But the picture quality was worse with the NTSC :(

Hey you, didn't you read my comments earlier that motion blur is caused by the capture rate being too slow to "freeze" fast motion in an individual frame? It is expected that film at 24 or 25fps has more of this than VIDEO at 1/50th or 1/60th second FIELD rate (though this introduces interlace issues). I oughta...... :p

The fact that you are noticing more "blur" on NTSC does suggest that there are deinterlacing issues (not just motion blur which is different) here though, as NTSC has the fastest capture rate of all standard methods at 1/60th second.

It would be too difficult to try out my PC with it also. Its just too much to setup.I might build/buy a HTPC one day though.

I have been noticing this motion blur will all different types of displays now. Not just the PJ. I think because the screen is so much bigger than i am used to it has now become obvious to my eyes :(

I am due for a DVD player upgrade anyway so when i can afford it i will get one regardless if it fixes the problem or not. Hopefully it can at least reduce the problem a bit.

Even if i can reduce the motion blur a bit i would be very happy.
Thanks ;)

Is there no one around who can lend you a modern player or can you not view the same source on another setup, preferably a different pj?

It is at this point that I usually recommend copious amounts of substance abuse.
ted

Hey teiresias, While your here can i ask what the OPPO OPDV971H is like with the AE900? It dose PAL so i just might get one for my AE900 :D

I dont suppose you notice how well it deals with motion blur? Its a little problem i am trying to deal with.

Thanks bud ;)

I haven't had a chance to really look at it yet. I hooked it up once just to make sure everything was good out of the box, but the theater room isn't finished yet. The carpet should be in either by the end of this week or next so after that I'll get everything set up and let you know more definitively.

From the short time I had it hooked up that one time though I didn't notice anything objectionable in terms of smearing or motion blurring. Nothing was calibrated though, so I'm just guessing I actually had it feeding the 900 an actual 720p signal.

I later hooked up the PC and got the impression that I preferred the PC's PowerDVD output over the VGA input to the Oppo's feed from DVI, but that was hardly an A-B comparison and I had the chance to adjust some contrast and stuff on the projector when the PC was attached, so I'm sure that helped make it look better than the Oppo too. I'll give the Oppo a more fair shake once everything is hooked up - the PC is just going to be for gaming and music playing during parties anyway, haha!!

Thanks very much, Dave. I appreciate it.

You are very welcome,

Dave

Yeah I saw that too, but I also noted another comment about an earlier model where someone found it was cured after removing the PJ from its mount, then later reinstalling it. It seemed that the movement may have reestablished some contacts or something.

Problem is, the question comes up often enough, but I have yet to see a definitive answer to it.

Might have to start a thread about just this issue...

I read this and ran mine in high power for 30 hours and the iris howling has stopped. I have no idea why but for now the projector is back to its original quiet self. 250ish total hours now.

Dave

Just went to hook up my 900 to project a screen on my wall to confirm screen ht, projector mtg., and quite simply to play w/ it. It won't power on! When you turn on the main power, the stand by red light turns on. I push the top poer button and the green light comes on, and it sounds like it trys to power on and then shuts down. No flashing lights (temp, lamp). I have it hooked up to component to a PS2, which has been serving as my DVD player. Does the projector need to "see" a signal before powering on? Or is this a lemon?

VA cust service just closed and Panny cust service closed at 6EDT. Just seeing if anyone seen similar, or if I'm an idiot.

Hey you, didn't you read my comments earlier that motion blur is caused by the capture rate being too slow to "freeze" fast motion in an individual frame? It is expected that film at 24 or 25fps has more of this than VIDEO at 1/50th or 1/60th second FIELD rate (though this introduces interlace issues). I oughta......


Yeah i did but didn't really understand what you where telling me.;)

The fact that you are noticing more "blur" on NTSC does suggest that there are deinterlacing issues (not just motion blur which is different) here though

Hey you, didn't you read my comments earlier lol..... I said the motion blur was LESS with the NTSC DVD. So it looked better. But the colours, resolution and sharpness where worse.

Is there no one around who can lend you a modern player or can you not view the same source on another setup, preferably a different pj?

Nope :(

It is at this point that I usually recommend copious amounts of substance abuse.
ted

lol. I would if i could but having diabetes it could kill me instead :(

Thanks for the help Ted. Its more than anyone else has done ;)

Just got one of these. What is the largest screen size that you can have with this unit? My projector is about 14 feet away from the wall.

Thanks.

lol. I would if i could but having diabetes it could kill me instead :(
My heart goes out to you that can be a tough go. I've co-workers with the same.
Thanks for the help Ted. Its more than anyone else has done ;)

Thanks. but I do regret we were unable to accomplish anything other than to fill your eyes with more verbiage than you needed.

Keep us posted.
ted

I have an AE900 on the way and am about to order a ceiling mount. In my case, I'm going with a Chief RPA-225 which I plan to mount via a threaded pipe. Any recommendations on how far to drop it from my 8' ceiling? The screen top is about 5" below the ceiling, so I'm well within the lens shift range. My primary thinking is to enhance air flow for cooling. Would 8" (6" pipe plus the 2" RPA base) be a good idea? More? Less? Thanks! :)

Just went to hook up my 900 to project a screen on my wall to confirm screen ht, projector mtg., and quite simply to play w/ it. It won't power on! When you turn on the main power, the stand by red light turns on. I push the top poer button and the green light comes on, and it sounds like it trys to power on and then shuts down. No flashing lights (temp, lamp). I have it hooked up to component to a PS2, which has been serving as my DVD player. Does the projector need to "see" a signal before powering on? Or is this a lemon?

VA cust service just closed and Panny cust service closed at 6EDT. Just seeing if anyone seen similar, or if I'm an idiot.

Nope, no signal is required. With no input source, you should be able to power up the 900, and see a blue screen. If you change inputs, the input will display in the upper right corner. You should also be able to display the projector menu as well.

In a early review it was stated that there is a setting for 1x1 mapping with no cropping.

I guess Panasonic listened to the complaints about the 700
I just hooked up my laptop to my AE900u via a DVI to HDMI cable, and the image was cropped for me. I was not able to get the picture to fill the screen as it did when I had it connected via VGA.

I dont have any other HDMI sources to test at the moment, but will they have the same problems? I've looked through the menus on the projector and couldn't find a 1x1 mapping option to allow the image to fill the screen. If anyone could let me know how to fix this, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks

To fill the screen from the laptop, you need to set the laptop to output a 1280 x 720 resoluton, and that may not be possible with the video driver in the laptop (unless it's a widescreen, WXGA - usually 16:10, model). If your laptop has a standard display, you probably won't be able to set it to anything except 800 x 600 or 1024 x 768, and you will not be able to display a full screen image.

My heart goes out to you that can be a tough go. I've co-workers with the same.


Thanks. but I do regret we were unable to accomplish anything other than to fill your eyes with more verbiage than you needed.

Keep us posted.
ted

Ok well can you help me choose a player to pair up with my PAL AE900 ? I have tryed looking at all the SD DVD player threads only to be left even more unsure what to get :( Don't need HD DVD player. Needs to play PAL DVD's.

After best picture and sound quality for less than $500 but no real cheap stuff like the OPPO ;) I know the OPPO gets good ratings but to quote Kenland from another thread People don't realize that Secrets tests are about deinterlacing - NOT PICTURE QUALITY. . I want outright performance and willing to go over budget if it will get me significantly better performance.

Thanks mate ;)

Just got one of these. What is the largest screen size that you can have with this unit? My projector is about 14 feet away from the wall.

Thanks.
From what i have read 110in no more than 120in gives a great pic.Any Larger the pic will be dim.

I just got my 900. It's my first PJ, I'm very excited! Quick question, my ceilings are 10' high and the room setup calls for ceiling-mounting. Did I buy the wrong PJ? I wanted to go LCD and I didn't think the Z4 was bright enough for a 120" screen but I'm worried about PQ. Everyone here says to make sure the 900 is positioned below the top of the screen but I don't want a screen 6 inches from my ceiling. Can I drop a mount 30 inches? How much is PQ affected by extreme vertical lens shift? My throw could be anywhere between 12 and 18 feet, I don't know if the different lengths will have any effect.

To fill the screen from the laptop, you need to set the laptop to output a 1280 x 720 resoluton, and that may not be possible with the video driver in the laptop (unless it's a widescreen, WXGA - usually 16:10, model). If your laptop has a standard display, you probably won't be able to set it to anything except 800 x 600 or 1024 x 768, and you will not be able to display a full screen image.
No, the problem is not the resolution. I connected my new Intel Macbook and it recognized the projector as the AE900 and allowed me to set the resolution to 1280x720. However, the image was still scaled down on my screen compared to my other sources.

Previously, when I connected my iMac G5 to the projector via VGA, it also allowed me to set the resolution at 1280x720 and it filled the entire screen with no problem. So, unfortunately, it does appear the the problem is either with the projector or the HDMI technology.

Can any other AE900 owners tell me if they have similar problems with their HDMI devices?

My unit is mounted 14 feet from a 120 inch 16:9 screen. Picture in HD is great. You need to conrol the amount of light in the room however.Just got one of these. What is the largest screen size that you can have with this unit? My projector is about 14 feet away from the wall.

Thanks.

From what i have read 110in no more than 120in gives a great pic.Any Larger the pic will be dim.

The trick is to have the correct screen. I have the 139x72" High Power with the projector mounted on a tv shelf (home depot) about 25% of the way down from the top of the screen. With all of the lights off it is very bright and 'punchy' in low power mode. the children watch their movies with all of the room lights on dim and the pj in dynamic mode. Again, plenty bright. The screen is the key element. Light control is a bonus.

Dave

I purchased all three of my screens from jason at avs.

I just hooked up my laptop to my AE900u via a DVI to HDMI cable, and the image was cropped for me. I was not able to get the picture to fill the screen as it did when I had it connected via VGA.

I dont have any other HDMI sources to test at the moment, but will they have the same problems? I've looked through the menus on the projector and couldn't find a 1x1 mapping option to allow the image to fill the screen. If anyone could let me know how to fix this, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks

If it is in your budget you can solve most of these issues with the vp30 or perhaps even the HD or HD+.


Dave

I have an AE900 on the way and am about to order a ceiling mount. In my case, I'm going with a Chief RPA-225 which I plan to mount via a threaded pipe. Any recommendations on how far to drop it from my 8' ceiling? The screen top is about 5" below the ceiling, so I'm well within the lens shift range. My primary thinking is to enhance air flow for cooling. Would 8" (6" pipe plus the 2" RPA base) be a good idea? More? Less? Thanks! :)

I built a ceiling mount and after about one week of use, realized that I could just put it on a shelf at the back of the room and use the zoom to fix the throw distance. Much nicer to not have the pj over the best seat in the house, plus cleaning the filter is much easier. My tv mount was under thirty dollars at home depot.

Dave

Ok well can you help me choose a player to pair up with my PAL AE900 ? I have tryed looking at all the SD DVD player threads only to be left even more unsure what to get :( Don't need HD DVD player. Needs to play PAL DVD's.

After best picture and sound quality for less than $500 but no real cheap stuff like the OPPO ;) I know the OPPO gets good ratings but to quote Kenland from another thread . I want outright performance and willing to go over budget if it will get me significantly better performance.

Thanks mate ;)

Many *are* satisfied with the PQ of the OPPO though.

I'm really not the person for these matters but there are many about who are. Starrt a thread in the DVD Forum - I would even explain the issues you are having with your current setup.

I'm more inclined to an HTPC which I use as my main playback. I went this direction because I'm a fiddler and need aspect control since I've a Constant Height setup with an Anamorphic lens.

I do have a Panasonic S52S - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=665559&highlight=s52 - which has a satisfactory PQ, though the build is a little flimsy and won't win any beauty competitions. It serves when the family doesn't want to futz with the PC - more of a psychological issue than real - its pretty straight forward and its stable.

Currently I'm just doing cosmetic things in my HT - biding time until Hi Def source and pj's reach my price point.

ted

No, the problem is not the resolution. I connected my new Intel Macbook and it recognized the projector as the AE900 and allowed me to set the resolution to 1280x720. However, the image was still scaled down on my screen compared to my other sources.

Previously, when I connected my iMac G5 to the projector via VGA, it also allowed me to set the resolution at 1280x720 and it filled the entire screen with no problem. So, unfortunately, it does appear the the problem is either with the projector or the HDMI technology.

Can any other AE900 owners tell me if they have similar problems with their HDMI devices?


Can you describe what you mean by "scaled down" Does the text get larger or smaller? Do you mean it is not filling the panel leaving a black border.

There should be no issue with HDMI - most of these problems were sorted out with the 700. Many run players and HTPC's with no issues.

Is there a chance that OVERSCAN has been toggled? It should be OFF if you are feeding it a 1280 x 720p signal.

ted

I just got my 900. It's my first PJ, I'm very excited! Quick question, my ceilings are 10' high and the room setup calls for ceiling-mounting. Did I buy the wrong PJ? ... Can I drop a mount 30 inches? How much is PQ affected by extreme vertical lens shift? My throw could be anywhere between 12 and 18 feet, I don't know if the different lengths will have any effect.

The Panny 900 is not the right projector for ceiling mount 10' up. Yes, you can mount the projector to a pipe or something sticking down from the ceiling, and do it that way. Better, you might choose to mount the projector along the wall behind you - that's what it is designed for. That allows you to use the retro-reflective screens, (High power, or Greywolf) to get enough brightness with a 120" screen. See if you can shelf mount it behind your seating.
Otherwise, you would be better off with a projector that comes with more offset, (Optoma or Infocus DLP) or more vertical lens shift, such as the Z4.

The Panny 900 is not the right projector for ceiling mount 10' up. Yes, you can mount the projector to a pipe or something sticking down from the ceiling, and do it that way. Better, you might choose to mount the projector along the wall behind you - that's what it is designed for. That allows you to use the retro-reflective screens, (High power, or Greywolf) to get enough brightness with a 120" screen. See if you can shelf mount it behind your seating.
Otherwise, you would be better off with a projector that comes with more offset, (Optoma or Infocus DLP) or more vertical lens shift, such as the Z4.

I wouldn't recommend the GreyWolf screen for the Panny ae900 either, especially 120 inches. It would be too dark, even wall mounted. My GW2 is 106 inches, and it is too dark (especially for animated movies - it lacks punch) and the sky scenes still look dingy/dirty. Also, at my seating distance of 9-10 feet, I can still see the texture and sometimes sparklies, which is very annoying. I am hoping the High Power (coming soon) will look as good as they say!

I wouldn't recommend the GreyWolf screen for the Panny ae900 either, especially 120 inches.

I agree, the Greywolf has sparklies, is not as bright, and probably doesn't come in any size bigger than 106 inches. The High Power screen would be preferable, significantly.

Better, you might choose to mount the projector along the wall behind you - that's what it is designed for. That allows you to use the retro-reflective screens, (High power, or Greywolf) to get enough brightness with a 120" screen.

That's what I'm gathering. The problem is, basically the entire rear wall of the room is a window, so attaching a mount to the wall is impossible. And it'd be really tacky to have something like a bookshelf splitting the window in half since we like to have it open during the day when we're not using the theater. A solution could be to build a single shelf that runs across the whole window about 1/3 of the way down the wall. That way we could still pull up the blinds a few feet to let some light in. I'm not much of a DIYer but this should be doable.

I actually purchased my screen on the premise that I'd be ceiling-mounting the PJ. I bought the Carada BW 118" since it's not retro-reflective (right?). If I do end up mounting my PJ along the back wall should I return it and get a HiPower? Or will the BW be sufficient?

Also, to repeat my original question, does anyone have experience with a 30" mount? I'm thinking that the PJ might be more susceptible to vibrations at the end of such a long pole. Fortunately it's a one story house so there won't be anyone above the PJ but if one of my idiot roommates bumps into a wall or throws a ball against the wall (one of the room's walls is a main wall in our house) will the vibration be enough to ruin the focus or offset?

Thanks so much for your help guys, I'm a techie but this is all new territory for me and I can't wait for the day I'm not a newbie and can start answering questions instead of asking them.

I agree, the Greywolf has sparklies, is not as bright, and probably doesn't come in any size bigger than 106 inches. The High Power screen would be preferable, significantly.

yeah but I can live with a few flaws for $200 than be only somewhat more happier for another $800+

What do you mean by cropped ? If your problem is that the projected image is missing the edges of the HDMI source, try turning off 'Overscan' from the projector menu.

If the whole image is there, but squashed, try cycling the aspect ratios.

I asked this in another thread but did not reveive a reply so I will try here.

When calibrating my Panny 900u projector which settings should I choose on my DVD player? YPbPr or RGB? I have both the DVD player and HD sat dish, connected via HDMI and set to 720p. I get different results when I change the setting, which one is correct for this projector?

ghotihead,

As it turns out, I have a mount that places the middle of the lens 30" below the joists that it is attached to. That places the lens at the top edge of my screen. My theater is in the basement. Most of the time, both my wife and I are watching together and there is noone upstairs to jump around and produce a source of vibration. The mount is my interpretation of one of the several DIY mounts that you can search for on this site. I used 1 1/2" pipe with two pipe flanges to bridge the gap. It is solid. Your joist stiffness would probably be as big a piece of the action if someone were to be jumping around and no mount is going to alleviate that. The mount cost was about $25. I would do something different if I did it again and that is to create a suspended platform mount instead of mounting the projector upside down. While I only notice it occasionally during a silent moment, the projector is slightly louder when mounted upside down.

I asked this in another thread but did not reveive a reply so I will try here.

When calibrating my Panny 900u projector which settings should I choose on my DVD player? YPbPr or RGB? I have both the DVD player and HD sat dish, connected via HDMI and set to 720p. I get different results when I change the setting, which one is correct for this projector?

Ultimately it is all converted to RGB for driving the panels anyway. RGB is 8 bit. DVD is 8 bit.

But, there is an advantage to YPbPr. It can work in a larger bit space in this case. It is why we see players mentioning more bits that the display ultimately uses (8 bit RGB) The advantage of this is processing. With all the temporal and spatial processing going on, the larger bit space allows for better handling of the data as it helps avoid rounding errors when massaging the data.

Try both on the same familiar source, then decide. :)

ted

Ultimately it is all converted to RGB for driving the panels anyway. RGB is 8 bit. DVD is 8 bit.


ted

Depending on how the player is designed, selecting RGB may result in PC levels which will clip BTB and peak white. If that's the case, I'd set it to YPbPr which should provide video levels. Over HDMI/DVI, this should actually be YCbCr.

Check with a source that contains BTB info such as the THX optimizer drop shadow pattern to see.

Thanks guys, for the response. :)

Depending on how the player is designed, selecting RGB may result in PC levels which will clip BTB and peak white. If that's the case, I'd set it to YPbPr which should provide video levels. Over HDMI/DVI, this should actually be YCbCr.

Check with a source that contains BTB info such as the THX optimizer drop shadow pattern to see.

Good point, except PC levels do not "clip" BtB and peak white (all levels are being passed) but are setting 0 as black and 255 as white, which as you indicate is wrong for a VIDEO source. It should simply be a matter of setting display black to 16 and white as 235 (though this can be handled slightly differently. Any YPbPr transport that is passing BtB & WtW also contains levels 0-15 and 236-255 just like the RGB source should. Ideally all data points for an 8 bit source (256 levels) should be transported from the player. It is the *display* settings that determine black point and white point.

As you note , any new source should result in a calibration check of your display.

ted

Any reason I shouldn't sit my AE900 on top on my DVD player? They both fit perfectly on a shelf in the back of my viewing room.
Thanks,
-DP

Any reason I shouldn't sit my AE900 on top on my DVD player? They both fit perfectly on a shelf in the back of my viewing room.
Thanks,
-DP

I'm never a fan of inducing heat into a chassis.
I see no issue as long as there is enough space between them to avoid thermal coupling.

ted

Good point, except PC levels do not "clip" BtB and peak white (all levels are being passed) but are setting 0 as black and 255 as white, which as you indicate is wrong for a VIDEO source. It should simply be a matter of setting display black to 16 and white as 235 (though this can be handled slightly differently. Any YPbPr transport that is passing BtB & WtW also contains levels 0-15 and 236-255 just like the RGB source should. Ideally all data points for an 8 bit source (256 levels) should be transported from the player. It is the *display* settings that determine black point and white point.

As you note , any new source should result in a calibration check of your display.

ted

If the source is originally Video level and you expand to PC-RGB you do clip. The BTB as well as peak white are no longer present. This is one of the issues with HDMI-DVI connections on the Toshiba A1 right now.

It seems to me that either the source or the display can effect black/white levels.
Switching from RGB to YCbCr isn't the same as simply lowering the IRE by 7.5 with a "PC" or "expand" setting which I think is what you are referring to.

Hi all

I am new and looking into the Panny AE900 PJ. I am wishing to mount the PJ from the ceiling and are wanting to know if there is any problems with quality of image if i were to either use lens shift or tilt the PJ down and use keystone adjustments to correct the image displayed. This needs to be done in order to save my neck from looking up too high at the image.

The PJ would be mounted 4m from screen and at approx. 2.4m high.

Which option would produce the best results, tilting or lens shift.

Thanks

Planning to turn on the PJ for the first time.
Whats the recommendation for breaking it in?
Whats the recommenation for filters?
I've been getting mixed answers, yet nothing definitive.

I just had my light engine replaced about 200 hours ago and I notice on a white screen that my white screen is not so white on the lower left corner. I would say it is 1/8th of the screen wich has a definite red tint to it. I use the graywolf screen btw. I never noticed this before the light engine replacement. Is this common? Need to figure what is the culprit. If it is something I could do or do I need to spend another $100 to ship to heartland.

P.S. 480 on my bulb now.

There's about an inch of space in between the units and ample space all around. I haven't noticed any additional heat buildup, but I'll check on it. Thanks, DP

If the source is originally Video level and you expand to PC-RGB you do clip. The BTB as well as peak white are no longer present. This is one of the issues with HDMI-DVI connections on the Toshiba A1 right now.

It seems to me that either the source or the display can effect black/white levels.
Switching from RGB to YCbCr isn't the same as simply lowering the IRE by 7.5 with a "PC" or "expand" setting which I think is what you are referring to.

Nope. In the example you mention, one of those transport methods is not passing the full code range, thereby not allowing me to set my black level correctly - though that would still be at 16. See my comment below.

This issue I had was with "PC Levels which will clip...".
The PC range should pass all codes, in other words not "clip" anything or its not PC levels as I understand them. Essentially if a player is not passing BtB and WtW then it is not passing the full code range as it should. This is what the Toshibas (and players I have returned) are not doing. They are clipping the full range and passing only 16-235 (VIDEO levels) resulting in black crush and white clip. In other words the player should *pass* PC levels but the display should be set such that only above 16 is visible. The codes should be there from the player however. They are not on some players - and in my view should be returned. A player which pases only Video levels *can* be set at a display, but the subtlety of setting with the full codes range cannot be achieved without those codes. Again, though I don't want to *see* them, I want them available for proper display setting and processing.

My display is set for 16 + as visible but if I change my gamma I want the bits to be there for processing. Anything that does not pass a simple pluge should be sent back in my opinion. It is one of the reasons I was disappointed by the current generation of HD DVD.

Has this been corrected with the firmware upgrade btw?

ted

Planning to turn on the PJ for the first time.
Whats the recommendation for breaking it in?

Lock doors.
Open beer.

Whats the recommenation for filters?
I've been getting mixed answers, yet nothing definitive.

I think "definitive" depends much on the viewers need for black level vs Ft lamberts.

I use an EF with my 700 which is not as bright as the 900 on a 1.5 Vutec. The tradeoff here is of course the EF drops the output about 1/3rd of a stop more than the CC's. For me I work in a control room/cave so bright images can hurt my eyes and damage the experience I am seeking with my beer.

As a CRT fellow you might be quite happy with the lower output the EF results in. The CC is what most people in the tweak thread seem to prefer however, as Mike claims the EF imparts a slight orange to the midrange with the 900.

Why not just project sans filter for a while and use one of the CINEMA modes which provide the lumens levels you will get after calibration with one of the filters?

ted

Nope. In the example you mention, one of those transport methods is not passing the full code range, thereby not allowing me to set my black level correctly - though that would still be at 16. See my comment below.

This issue I had was with "PC Levels which will clip...".
The PC range should pass all codes, in other words not "clip" anything or its not PC levels as I understand them. Essentially if a player is not passing BtB and WtW then it is not passing the full code range as it should. This is what the Toshibas (and players I have returned) are not doing. They are clipping the full range and passing only 16-235 (VIDEO levels) resulting in black crush and white clip. In other words the player should *pass* PC levels but the display should be set such that only above 16 is visible. The codes should be there from the player however. They are not on some players - and in my view should be returned. A player which pases only Video levels *can* be set at a display, but the subtlety of setting with the full codes range cannot be achieved without those codes. Again, though I don't want to *see* them, I want them available for proper display setting and processing.

ted

My understanding is that the colorspace and video/pc levels are determined by the handshake and EDID info with HDMI/DVI connection. For example, RGB 4:4:4 at video level output from the player can cause the display to convert to PC levels especially with DVI displays because the display mistakenly recognizes RGB as a PC signal. This will result in loss of BTB and peak white info.

See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=694226&page=2&pp=30&highlight=sspears

and read from around post #36 to #50.

Info on EDID from Lumagen's website: http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=faqs#faq_edid

HDMI-HDMI colorspace and grey scale levels are now correct (firmware V 1.2 or higher) on the A1 assuming the display utilizes YCbCr 4:2:2 properly. There are still some issues with improper colorspace and levels with HDMI/DVI connections and with displays which won't utilize YCbCr 4:2:2.

When using 90% of the vertical lens shift I am seeing the bottom and top of my image bowing. Is this normal? Not even sure if it has to do with using lens shift but will double check that later tonight...

When using 90% of the vertical lens shift I am seeing the bottom and top of my image bowing. Is this normal? Not even sure if it has to do with using lens shift but will double check that later tonight...

yes lens shift creates distortion

My understanding is that the colorspace and video/pc levels are determined by the handshake and EDID info with HDMI/DVI connection. For example, RGB 4:4:4 at video level output from the player can cause the display to convert to PC levels especially with DVI displays because the display mistakenly recognizes RGB as a PC signal. This will result in loss of BTB and peak white info.

See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=694226&page=2&pp=30&highlight=sspears

and read from around post #36 to #50.

Thanks for the link though my reading of that suggests nothing that contradicts what I said. Again my quibble is with the idea that PC levels "clip". They do not as they contain the same codes (and more) that are used for VIDEO (16-235). I also point out that RGB *is* PC (VGA) and had better contain codes 0-255.

What is happening is that the display thinks that it is DVI it must be PC and therfore maps - " expands" 16-235 to 0-255. This means that a display which has been set such that 16 is black would treat any codes remapped to below 16 as black and thus would "crush" detail that should have been there. I have to ask if the Tosh player was properly transmitting all codes below 16 and above 235 as it should (i.e. not clipping them) do you think any code "expansion" would have occurred?

HDMI-HDMI colorspace and grey scale levels are now correct (firmware V 1.2 or higher) on the A1 assuming the display utilizes YCbCr 4:2:2 properly. There are still some issues with improper colorspace and levels with HDMI/DVI connections and with displays which won't utilize YCbCr 4:2:2.

That is certainly good to know.

ted

When using 90% of the vertical lens shift I am seeing the bottom and top of my image bowing. Is this normal? Not even sure if it has to do with using lens shift but will double check that later tonight...

May I ask...
Is your setup short throw with a relatively large image?
Beyond the issues caused by the lens shift (note where it places the image on the lens) there is the fact that most pjs in this forum do not have the best optics. They are simple lenses, not the complex variety which contain more elements to correct for the common optic errors that lenses can create.

What you are seeing is specifically called pincushion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincushion_distortion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberration_in_optical_systems

Why I asked you to note the position of the image on the lense is because the centre of the lens is the flattest with the least bending of the light as it passes through. Again there are few additional elements that correct for the inherent greater light bending on the curved portions of the lens.

I've a short throw setup which causes some pincushion. Good masking helps here as the amount of content that is likely to be objectional for extended periods is small.

ted

My PJ is around 12ft from the screen and screen size is 84in.

I am not sure where the image is on the lens but will check next time I power it up. What do you mean by masking?

I may just raise my screen up a bit and drop my PJ lower to get closer to the center.

My old infocus 4805 never had this problem. I had the PJ lens 10in above the screen even.

Wish I did not have to have the lens on the center of the screen to get a uniform image. That seems strange as most people will not be able to do that in there rooms...

I currently have an Infocus 4805 and I am thinking about buying an AE900 is it worth the change? I mean am I really going to see a big difference? I would like a reply from those who are familar with the viewing on the 4805 and the AE900.

Thanks! :confused:

I think the 4805 is a great little PJ. The main reason why I upgraded was HD-DVD and my X-BOX 360. If I was just watching movies with my old Oppo and using the old X-Box I would have been happy with the 4805. The blacks are not as good on the AE900U but everything else is better IMHO.

Thanks for the link though my reading of that suggests nothing that contradicts what I said. Again my quibble is with the idea that PC levels "clip". They do not as they contain the same codes (and more) that are used for VIDEO (16-235). I also point out that RGB *is* PC (VGA) and had better contain codes 0-255.



RGB can either be "studio" at video levels or "PC" at PC levels. That's the problem and the reason for the clipping that occurs. When Studio RGB is improperly remapped to PC BTB and peak whites are clipped. This can occur either due to the display or the source.

This first excerpt is a quote from a Secrets review by Kris Deering addressing this and the link is below. The second quote is from Chris Wiggles and also with the full link below.

Studio RGB levels allow for this by setting black at digital 16 and white at digital 235 within the 0-255 digital spectrum. Enhanced mode uses PC RGB levels and moves the level of black to 0 and white to 255 and does not allow head or toe room for above white and below black information. This can easily be verified using test patterns on the Digital Video Essentials or AVIA Pro DVDs. We recommend always using the Studio RGB levels for video playback.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/denon-dvd-5910-dvd-player-4-2005-part-1.html

Projectors with digital inputs have to be able to handle both video applications and computer graphics applications. They should be able to calibrate or switch their white and black levels to accommodate both Studio levels and PC levels, but some don’t. Because video sources and graphics sources may be used simultaneously in some applications, video source manufacturers tend to include an option to leave the digital outputs at Studio levels, or to re-map them to PC levels.

Mapping Studio levels to PC levels can be done a few ways. Sometimes all the levels are just shifted down 16 steps, thus clipping off BTB data, but not introducing banding/contouring or clipping highlight details. If there are other PC level sources fed to the display, their whites will be substantially brighter. The clipping of BTB data is undesirable and the brightness mis-match is also noticeable, however note that there will be no banding problems. Usually the levels are expanded: digital 16 (black) is shifted down to 0, and 235 (white) is shifted up to 255 (or sometimes a value slightly lower than 255) thus expanding the numerical range between black and white to match PC levels. Note that this doesn’t improve contrast in the final image. In this case, re-mapping Studio levels to PC levels will destroy BTB and peak white image data, and introduce banding/contouring artifacts because of the expansion. This is also undesirable.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4969789#post4969789

I just had my light engine replaced about 200 hours ago and I notice on a white screen that my white screen is not so white on the lower left corner. I would say it is 1/8th of the screen wich has a definite red tint to it. I use the graywolf screen btw. I never noticed this before the light engine replacement. Is this common? Need to figure what is the culprit. If it is something I could do or do I need to spend another $100 to ship to heartland.

P.S. 480 on my bulb now.

The uniformity on the new optical block may be slightly off. Unfortnately the Graywolf exagerates it for some reason. I had a slight uniformity issue with my Panny and when I switched to a Carada BW 100" screen it went away.

Elio

RGB can either be "studio" at video levels or "PC" at PC levels. That's the problem and the reason for the clipping that occurs. When Studio RGB is improperly remapped to PC BTB and peak whites are clipped. This can occur either due to the display or the source.

This first excerpt is a quote from a Secrets review by Kris Deering addressing this and the link is below. The second quote is from Chris Wiggles and also with the full link below.

cpcat,

I really wish I knew what we are having a difference of opinion about. I took exception with your wording and tried to clarify. You are preaching to the choir here. I've been over those links more than once and send many to them when trying to clarify calibration issues. None of what you have quoted disputes what I was trying to clarify. In fact they amplify what I was getting at in a considerably more elegant manner. How can I convince you of that? Call it semantics if you wish.

I sit in a Broadcast TV control room in my day job - we work with interfacing issues and Studio RGB levels to get what we do to air in a reasonable matter. Yes we take RGB from Studio Cameras (VIDEO) and RGB from servers and character generators (PC VGA) and make it all work. I am quite familiar with the issues that can be caused when an artist renders his levels in a 0-255 space and it hits our switchers that are set for black at code 16. So before this decends into thread pollution we can stop whatever it is we are disagreeing about. As I said. ted not know.

ted

My PJ is around 12ft from the screen and screen size is 84in.

I am not sure where the image is on the lens but will check next time I power it up. What do you mean by masking?

No need to. If you are using lens shift of any sort, you will notice that the image is no longer centred on the lens.

Masking is simply the black border that surrounds your screen. Zoom your image.

My old infocus 4805 never had this problem. I had the PJ lens 10in above the screen even.

The 4805 is a fixed offset unit, is it not? Lens shift will always add optical issues that should be addressed. Second to this, it wouldn't surprise me if it had better build quality and optics than my AE700. Infocus' quality reputation is well earned.

ted

Yes I am pretty sure that the 4805 is a fixed offset and you are prob right about the optics also. I have noticed a small 1/4in scratch on my Panny lens and that is on the inside... Not the best QC IMHO.

Does the AU900 have a sleep timer by chance?

Does the AU900 have a sleep timer by chance?
YES! It's one of the nice upgrades from the previous models, imo.

You can set it to shut off into standby mode (meaning that the PJ shuts off to where the cooling fan kicks in high gear for about a minute but the main power stays on in standby mode) in 30 minute increments up to 4 hours. There is no direct access button for it on the remote, but it's easily accessible in the Menu.

When using 90% of the vertical lens shift I am seeing the bottom and top of my image bowing. Is this normal? Not even sure if it has to do with using lens shift but will double check that later tonight...

It is normal. I have the same "issue" with similar settings to yours.

Can someone tell me what VB looks like? I think I might have it. When viewing the screen with a solid blue image I am seeing little lines that run up and down the screen. When stepping back into my seating position they go away except for a few long ones on either side of the screen. This can also be seen with bright back grounds...

Just found this interesting little bit from the Projector Central site..

Motion blur. Back in the era when people first started making silent movies they wanted to expose just enough film to reasonably capture motion without wasting too much film. Initially, that exposure rate was 18 frames per second. However, when they wanted to go to talkies, they discovered that 18 fps was not fast enough to lay down a coherent audio track. So the speed was increased to 24 frames per second to accommodate audio, and the film industry has had 24 fps as a standard since the 1930's. As everyone who has been to the movies knows, 24 fps is not fast enough to resolve rapid motion without some blurring effects.

So i'm not going crazy after all :O And I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but the AE900 most definately does have motion blur. Or at least is does blur fast moving pictures to some degree. In any case 12ms for a PC monitor is about average these days (and I've never even seen it used as a stat for LCD projectors) and at that kind of refresh you'll get bluring on mst LCD TV/monitors. The reality is that LCD's will blur moving pictures to some degree. The extent differs but not much and most people don't really notice it too much or aren't bother by it.

I just wish i new this before i bought the thing :(

Just found this interesting little bit from the Projector Central site..

Motion blur. Back in the era when people first started making silent movies they wanted to expose just enough film to reasonably capture motion without wasting too much film. Initially, that exposure rate was 18 frames per second. However, when they wanted to go to talkies, they discovered that 18 fps was not fast enough to lay down a coherent audio track. So the speed was increased to 24 frames per second to accommodate audio, and the film industry has had 24 fps as a standard since the 1930's. As everyone who has been to the movies knows, 24 fps is not fast enough to resolve rapid motion without some blurring effects.

So i'm not going crazy after all :O And I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but the AE900 most definately does have motion blur. Or at least is does blur fast moving pictures to some degree. In any case 12ms for a PC monitor is about average these days (and I've never even seen it used as a stat for LCD projectors) and at that kind of refresh you'll get bluring on mst LCD TV/monitors. The reality is that LCD's will blur moving pictures to some degree. The extent differs but not much and most people don't really notice it too much or aren't bother by it.

I just wish i new this before i bought the thing :(

Sir,

If you reread my posts to you, you will see I said as much - when speaking of the capture rate of film vs field rate video - just check back, you will see its there. This will always be so regardless of the response cycle of the panel (unless film rate changes).

16 ms is still faster than the 24fps rate which is 41 ms per frame. Assuming shutter rate on the cine camera allows for better "freeze" of motion (works like a strobe) with - say a 180 degree shutter (this would be the maximum opening) it still only halves that 41ms which means that it is still slower than 16 ms. In other words it is not the panels fault in the case of film. It is intrinsic to film. For some of us it is part of film's charm. I am not denying what you are seeing - simply that it is unlikely to be the pj directly. It is why I suggested you check other units if possible.

Don't quote me, but I do recall reading somewhere (and I've been unable to source it) that D5 panel response cycle is 12 ms.

ted

Sir,

If you reread my posts to you, you will see I said as much - when speaking of the capture rate of film vs field rate video - just check back, you will see its there. This will always be so regardless of the response cycle of the panel (unless film rate changes).

Yeah i know but the Projector Central one was easier to understand for me. ;)

16 ms is still faster than the 24fps rate which is 41 ms per frame. Assuming shutter rate on the cine camera allows for better "freeze" of motion (works like a strobe) with - say a 180 degree shutter (this would be the maximum opening) it still only halves that 41ms which means that it is still slower than 16 ms. In other words it is not the panels fault in the case of film. It is intrinsic to film. For some of us it is part of film's charm. I am not denying what you are seeing - simply that it is unlikely to be the pj directly. It is why I suggested you check other units if possible.

Don't quote me, but I do recall reading somewhere (and I've been unable to source it) that D5 panel response cycle is 12 ms.

ted

Ok, So i guess i should have waited till film is made at a higher frame rate then :p Because what i am seeing is down right DISGRACEFUL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

16 ms is still faster than the 24fps rate which is 41 ms per frame.

Ok but why do some panels blur worse than others even when they come in under that 41 ms per frame ? That just doesn't make sense ? Right now my LCD looks like it should be a 62ms panel. That's how it is looking to my eyes.

Oh and just to add. I have seen an AE700 setup and i could see motion blur on that too.

Oh and just to add. I have seen an AE700 setup and i could see motion blur on that too.


It's also possible you are seeing judder which is a result of non-integer multiplication of the 24p framerate. I don't seem to notice it much myself but to get rid of it you'd need to view the film at 48p or 72p which I don't think the 900 is capable of.

Does it seem to matter if it's a PAL source? PAL shouldn't suffer from judder although it's possible the 900 performs a little differently with PAL.

Otherwise, call Hollywood and complain to them as there's not much else you can do. :)

It's also possible you are seeing judder which is a result of non-integer multiplication of the 24p framerate. I don't seem to notice it much myself but to get rid of it you'd need to view the film at 48p or 72p which I don't think the 900 is capable of.

Does it seem to matter if it's a PAL source? PAL shouldn't suffer from judder although it's possible the 900 performs a little differently with PAL.

Otherwise, call Hollywood and complain to them as there's not much else you can do. :)

I don't think its judder. It just looks like slow frame rate when the camera pans. I watched The Brothers Grim the other night and in the scenes where they are in the forest there is some camera panning through the tees that just goes all a blur. I got eye strain and felt sick looking at it and had to stop the movie for 15 min to have a break before coming back to finish it. I am seriously considering getting a smaller screen now to try and minimise the effect. Even though the screen i have now is not over size.

NTSC looks a little better with motion because it has 30 fps. PAL has 25fps. I didn't see any judder with either. Just motion blur when the camera moves.


Otherwise, call Hollywood and complain to them as there's not much else you can do.

Tried that. Still waiting to hear back from them. ;)

NTSC looks a little better with motion because it has 30 fps. PAL has 25fps. I didn't see any judder with either. Just motion blur when the camera moves.



Sounds like it's probably not judder you are seeing.


FYI film based sources such as most DVD movies in the NTSC system will be 24 Fps (that is where the judder comes from).
Video based sources are 30 Fps or 60 Fps and will not be subject to judder.

You might consider PM'ing madshi or big_marcelo on this as they both seem like PAL land gurus.

I've recently noticed a slight line around some objects on my pj image. The sharpness is set to -4 but I still have the problem. I'm using a pioneer 578a and think that might be the problem. Should I upgrade to an oppo 971 and hope the problem is solved? maybe HD-DVD is in my near future :cool:?

The line happens mainly on dark objects, such as the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. It happens around 4 pixels out and it's a really fine line, when there's a picture with lots of detail it looks fairly bad.

Also if I had to get it sent in for warranties, would I need my original receipt?

Anyone help me with this question?

Can someone tell me what VB looks like? I think I might have it. When viewing the screen with a solid blue image I am seeing little lines that run up and down the screen. When stepping back into my seating position they go away except for a few long ones on either side of the screen. This can also be seen with bright back grounds...

Hi. Struggling a bit with "who" should do the upconversion in my setup. I'm currently running a Panny900 connected to a Yamaha RXV2600 via HDMI which is connected to a Sony DVPNS3100ES via HDMI. According to the literature, each piece is capable of upconverting the display signal...my question is who do I leave this responsibility to? Any help would be great...thx.

Hi. Struggling a bit with "who" should do the upconversion in my setup. I'm currently running a Panny900 connected to a Yamaha RXV2600 via HDMI which is connected to a Sony DVPNS3100ES via HDMI. According to the literature, each piece is capable of upconverting the display signal...my question is who do I leave this responsibility to? Any help would be great...thx.

Assuming you don't have capability to output 480i over HDMI, just try both 480p and 720p (and even 1080i for that matter) and see which you like better. The AE900 has an excellent internal scaler IMO based on what I've seen so far.

Looking at resolution patterns on AVIA and the HQV Benchmark DVD can give you an idea of the relative performance with each resolution. This can also aid in setting the sharpness control on the 900 for various resolutions. Obviously, neither AVIA nor HQV have HD test patterns but you can may still get valuable info.

You could also do the entire battery of HQV tests for 480i (component), 480p, 720p, and 1080i if you wanted to help make your decision.

If any of you have read the sub-thread regarding PC and VIDEO levels and the calibration concerns involved, you will know that I had disagreed with cpcat in some of the issues involved. This post (with cpcat's kind permission) is to apologize for the (now) obvious mistakes I made. As you can see I made some errors in my postings which I feel should be addressed.


Ted,

I mistakenly posted this instead of PM'ing it but deleted it immediately. I apologize for that mistake.


Originally Posted by tvted
Good point, except PC levels do not "clip" BtB and peak white (all levels are being passed) but are setting 0 as black and 255 as white, which as you indicate is wrong for a VIDEO source. It should simply be a matter of setting display black to 16 and white as 235 (though this can be handled slightly differently. Any YPbPr transport that is passing BtB & WtW also contains levels 0-15 and 236-255 just like the RGB source should. Ideally all data points for an 8 bit source (256 levels) should be transported from the player. It is the *display* settings that determine black point and white point.

As you note , any new source should result in a calibration check of your display.

ted


The problem is that the "exception" you made to my statement is incorrect. Converting RGB at video level to RGB at PC level does result in clipping of BTB and peak whites. We are/were not discussing a source which is originally at a PC level. If you have simply chosen to refuse to admit your error in open forum I'll leave that to you. I've eaten crow here on many an occasion though and it's not that bad if well prepared.


Originally Posted by tvted
It is the *display* settings that determine black point and white point.



Also simply incorrect. Either or both can determine it. An example for a display would be the early DVI displays which incorrectly displayed PC levels. Source examples would be the current Toshiba A1 early firmware version and the early Samsung upconverting DVD players incorrectly outputting PC levels over DVI.




Originally Posted by tvted
I also point out that RGB *is* PC (VGA) and had better contain codes 0-255. Again, incorrect. RGB can be either video or pc level. You seemed to backtrack on this when you mentioned working with studio RGB. That being true it's hard to see why you would make this statement to begin with? I'm really not trying to be confrontational here. I just think we need to get this right in open forum especially
those of us with high post counts who will tend to be perceived as being more authoritative. There's nothing wrong with admitting a mistake now and then either even if you are an "expert".



As you can see if you follow the evidence cpcat is completely correct in his comments and I should run off in shame, but I think it more important that AVS maintain a high level of technical information where possible, hence the above.

I would like to thank cpcat for his kind consideration in the manner that he handled my obvious poor manners regarding this.

ted

cpcat...thank you very much, I will give it a try.

Ready to go digital. Panny 900??

I'm getting ready to move from CRT-FP to LCD/DLP. I'm looking close at the Panny 900. It all sounds good but I have 2 questions.

#1. My crt-fp is rated at 190 ANSI lumens, After the 900's lamp dims (from use) will it still be a lot brighter than my 190 lumens? My room needs the panny 900 to be 14-15 from the screen. My room is 100% light controlled on a da-light matt white screen. (My screen is 110 " wide, but I have black curtains I can pull in if needed)

...and I should run off in shame....
ted

...but you won't. Or, should I say, it'd be better for everyone if you didn't. :)

One last try...Is this something that is common on most of the AE900U's?


Originally Posted by Temple
Can someone tell me what VB looks like? I think I might have it. When viewing the screen with a solid blue image I am seeing little lines that run up and down the screen. When stepping back into my seating position they go away except for a few long ones on either side of the screen. This can also be seen with bright back grounds...

Ready to go digital. Panny 900??

I'm getting ready to move from CRT-FP to LCD/DLP. I'm looking close at the Panny 900. It all sounds good but I have 2 questions.

#1. My crt-fp is rated at 190 ANSI lumens, After the 900's lamp dims (from use) will it still be a lot brighter than my 190 lumens? My room needs the panny 900 to be 14-15 from the screen. My room is 100% light controlled on a da-light matt white screen. (My screen is 110 " wide, but I have black curtains I can pull in if needed)

In normal mode, the 900 provides around 600-700 lumens, so the answer I think is yes. Obviously, this could be more or less depending on your screen. Attached is an exerpt from the most comprehensive review I've seen on the 900. The link is below as well.

http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200510/ae900-ckl/index.htm

One last try...Is this something that is common on most of the AE900U's?

No. It seems fairly rare for this to be a problem.

vertical banding from projectorcentral (http://www.projectorcentral.com/banding_rainbows.htm)
banding and flicker adjustment post # 5241 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586260&page=175&pp=30)
service menu access (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7669390&highlight=service+menu#post7669390)

In normal mode, the 900 provides around 600-700 lumens, so the answer I think is yes. Obviously, this could be more or less depending on your screen. Attached is an exerpt from the most comprehensive review I've seen on the 900. The link is below as well.

http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200510/ae900-ckl/index.htm

Excellent review...

has anyone tried the settings discussed in this review with the filters?

Yes. Over in the tweak thread there's lots on this.

AE900 tweak/settings thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589234)

Hi. Struggling a bit with "who" should do the upconversion in my setup. I'm currently running a Panny900 connected to a Yamaha RXV2600 via HDMI which is connected to a Sony DVPNS3100ES via HDMI. According to the literature, each piece is capable of upconverting the display signal...my question is who do I leave this responsibility to? Any help would be great...thx.

I have the 2600 and Panny as well. The Yammy 2600 will not scale anything coming in via HDMI. It is pass though only. So you don't have a choice there. Use the DVD player's scaler and output 720P and the 2600 will pass that through to the Panny. It is probably better than the Panny's scaler anyhow. It's always best to feed the Panny a 720P signal so you don't have to use it's onboard scaler. Hope this helps.

I too am thinking of getting the panny 900 or the optoma hd 7100. I have been reading some reviews on the panny and they state that panny suffers from soft picture. Lacks calrity and sharpness compared to other projectors in its class. Anyone out there notice the softness? Thanks

It looks pretty good to me, but I am still waiting for my HP screen. I think the screen makes a big difference. The GW screen is so textured it makes any PJ look soft.

It's always best to feed the Panny a 720P signal so you don't have to use it's onboard scaler. Hope this helps.

I wouldn't be quite so absolute. The 900 has a pretty good scaler. Internal scalers have the advantage of being specifically designed whereas external VP's and HTPC's tend to be more generic.

I have a Lumagen HDP and have tried it both ways. Right now I'm planning to keep the VP out of the loop.

I too am thinking of getting the panny 900 or the optoma hd 7100. I have been reading some reviews on the panny and they state that panny suffers from soft picture. Lacks calrity and sharpness compared to other projectors in its class. Anyone out there notice the softness? Thanks

No softness with 1080i here noted. I've been projecting a 110 inch diagonal on a king sized sheet up to this point and it looks excellent. This includes 720p, 1080i from HDTV and 1080i HD DVD as well as 1080i upconverted DVD.

Obviously, DVD is softer than HD DVD.

The intro to Star Wars ROTJ still gives me chills though. :)

My HP screen should be here around 2 o'clock.

Da-Lite High Contrast or Matte White?

I'm to choose between these affordable screens to use with the Panny and an Oppo 971.
Any significant advantage/disadvantage to the HC (1.1 gain, 50 degree) over the MW (1.0 gain, 60 degree)? The PJ is 25% from bottom of screen, which is at eye level, in a light controlled room.
Thanks, DP

I wouldn't be quite so absolute. The 900 has a pretty good scaler. Internal scalers have the advantage of being specifically designed whereas external VP's and HTPC's tend to be more generic.

I have a Lumagen HDP and have tried it both ways. Right now I'm planning to keep the VP out of the loop.

Point well taken. I guess you have to see what works best for you. I have the Oppo DVD player and get best results using the Oppo's scaling and feeding 720p to the Panny.

Da-Lite High Contrast or Matte White?

I'm to choose between these affordable screens to use with the Panny and an Oppo 971.
Any significant advantage/disadvantage to the HC (1.1 gain, 50 degree) over the MW (1.0 gain, 60 degree)? The PJ is 25% from bottom of screen, which is at eye level, in a light controlled room.
Thanks, DP

I have read in the screens forums that the HCMW screen is pretty grainy (like the gray wolf) and may have wave issues.

If you have a big screen (106" or bigger) and/or a long throw, you might look into the High Power (Jason at AVScience is a good source with good support and pricing), which is supposed to be good for eye-level PJ mounting. Bright, sharp images and xlnt detail in dark scenes, although the PJ may need filtering for some movies if it is too bright (like the 81C or 81EF) which improves color balance and contrast ratio (to compensate for red weakness in the Lamp - see the ae900 tweaks thread).

I am supposed to get mine tonight (fingers crossed!), so we'll see. I will post my impressions as soon as I get it.

The screen will be 92" diag from a 15.5' throw. The PJ is 1.5 ft above eye level. Right now I'm projecting onto white over black vinyl that I bought at a plastics store - no idea on it's gain. I'm pretty happy with the image so far, but figure tweaking and filters should wait for a real screen.
Good luck with your High Power.
-DP

Try getting an Optoma matte white screen at Best Buy and return it if you don't like it or find a cheaper one. 30 days no restocking fees!

I just wish this projector would drop in price a little more in Canada, WOuld love to pay 2 grand for this.

Well, I did get my screen! I spent a couple of hours re-tweaking it for the DVD (HDMI) with DVE, and then for the HDTV (comp.) by eye. Then I popped in Sin City and the Aviator and re-tweaked some more. I set up the MOXI HDTV similar to the DVD settings.

I had to really tone down the contrast to prevent white crush. I set it around -24 with brightness 4-5. I set the color to -10 to -11. I think I will need a filter to improve the black levels. With such drastic contrast levels, I will probably go with the 81EF.

Normal mode seems to give me the best contrast ratio, but it still could use better blacks. It does wash out a bit with my 3-way touch table lamp on low, and pretty bad on higher settings, but the lamp is between the recliners just below the PJ height, so it is right in the middle of the HP's viewing cone. I tied a big scarf around the shade to keep it from shining right on the screen, which helps a lot. Plus the back wall has a brown Tapa cloth from tonga to reduce reflections from the lamp.

I like the texture a lot better than the Gray Wolf (1 & 2), but the black and white levels are still a bit bright for DVD movies. Robotz looked great on HDTV, though.

Stupid question time, when feeding the 900 a 720p image from the Oppo via DVI->HDMI should I be seeing a slight black border around the image with overscan off? I don't find it objectionable to keep the overscan on with this setup, I'm just wondering what most people do with this combo, as I would have thought a native 720p would be displayed 1:1, but perhaps not.

Stupid question time, when feeding the 900 a 720p image from the Oppo via DVI->HDMI should I be seeing a slight black border around the image with overscan off? I don't find it objectionable to keep the overscan on with this setup, I'm just wondering what most people do with this combo, as I would have thought a native 720p would be displayed 1:1, but perhaps not.

I get the same thing with my Denon 1920....but its usually a very bright blue line of one pixels that scretches across the top of the screen...why it is there, i have no idea...but I simply move the projector up one vertical unit in the software and it disappears...no idea why that happens

What is the best way to calibrate for SD and HD tv? I use DVE for DVD but how do you get a reference source of TV?

Thanks

I wish I knew. I heard HDNET offered some color bars at night, but I don't get HDNET, and I don't know if they still do that. I just copied my DVD settings and re-tweaked by eye from HD sources. SD looks pretty crappy on a 106" screen!

I currently have a sp5000 and am fairly happy with it, but I have the opportunity to upgrade and am considering the ae900. My only concern is brightness, I have a giant bay window (with a couch blocking part of it, and shades but not blackout curtains) so during the day there is a fair amount of ambient light (though not directly at the screen and I am using a greywolf so its retro reflective anyway). Most of my watching is at night, but I do occasionally watch/game during the day and if the 900 wont work without getting blackout shades (which would probably cost $500 to fully cover the bay window and two smaller side ones) then it may not be worth it for me. Note that even the sp5000 is a little washed out (though still quite watch able) during the day. Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

I currently have a sp5000 and am fairly happy with it, but I have the opportunity to upgrade and am considering the ae900. My only concern is brightness, I have a giant bay window (with a couch blocking part of it, and shades but not blackout curtains) so during the day there is a fair amount of ambient light (though not directly at the screen and I am using a greywolf so its retro reflective anyway). Most of my watching is at night, but I do occasionally watch/game during the day and if the 900 wont work without getting blackout shades (which would probably cost $500 to fully cover the bay window and two smaller side ones) then it may not be worth it for me. Note that even the sp5000 is a little washed out (though still quite watch able) during the day. Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

Have you considered Window Tint for the house?
This will save on your electricity as well.

Kamel407 its an apartment (I am a grad student), so window tint isint an option, but thanks for the suggestion.

What about a good black out shade you can roll down for movie viewing?? You can usually hide it behind existing window treatments. They work quite well. The AE900 does fine with a little ambient light especially if it is far from the screen.

jandawil a blackout shade is an option, and the light is indirect, it just with the size of the window (bay with 103x96 and 2 27x96 in the corner) a shade will likely be rather expensive (unless you have a suggestion.) The place i have previously ordered shades from would want about $350 for the main and $110 for each side, which is considerable.

JKresh,

My suggestion go to Joanne Fabrics, buy some blackout drape material and some trim to put around it, cost <$50.00.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

where'd you get the service manual? Would you mine posting it for us?

Hi, I just purchased a service manual for the Panasonic PT-AE 700 for 35 dollars. I will send you a copy of the CD-Rom of the entire manual for 20dollars mailed to you or email you the whole file for 15dollars to share my cost. The size of the file is about 15 megabyte.

Other than sticking sharp pointy objects into itty bitty spaces whiles there is electrical current flowing through the traces? Nope, nothing. ;)

The procedure is covered in the service manual. It requires displaying a grid pattern (available in the Service Menu) and adjusting the RED and BLUE panels in relation to the GREEN which is reference.

If you proceed you might also consider adjusting the mirrors which control the uniformity of the light that is passed to the panels.

ted

I have the service manual and I believe I can do the convergence myself. I need the service cable kit so I can proceed with the convergence. Can you tell me where I can order this kit? thanks

I am about to buy a Panny 900. I am using the projector outdoors and have a 50 ft VGA cable. My HDTV receiver has a VGA output - Will I get all the HD resoluitons - 1080i, 720P, etc? How much signal strength will I loose? Anyone have any experience with the Panny 900 outdoors at night and the 1100 lumins? I am concerned over picture quality but plan on using it for nighttime movies and sports events. I like the Panny due to its quick set up and current low price point but are there any better suggestions?

Ok I just got an AE900 to replace my SP-4805. The picture seems dim for videogames unless I raise the dark gamma all they up. I am projecting onto a 92" blackout cloth screen with a distance of 13'.

I just ordered a 92" Graywolf II screen with the hopes it will make it brighter.

Wanted to know what others on this forum suggest.

I also wanted to know doing the lens shift makes the image dimmer.


-sparkbox

Hi, I just purchased a service manual for the Panasonic PT-AE 700 for 35 dollars. I will send you a copy of the CD-Rom of the entire manual for 20dollars mailed to you or email you the whole file for 15dollars to share my cost. The size of the file is about 15 megabyte.

I got the 900 service manual for 8 bucks. The 700 is the same.

http://www.smpcshop.com/home.php?cat=196

I have that manual, someone posted it on-line, a while back.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

http://www.dtvforum.info/lofiversion/index.php/t15475.html


I have sourced this info from other threads and forums about the new 1.07 firmware. The options in the service ('EXT') menu (accessed by pressing and holding ENTER from the Option->OSD menu) are:

FREEZE MSG (on)
HD OVERSCAN (off)
RUNTIME PRT (on)
FAN FULLMODE (off)
AUTO SETUP (normal)
SELF CHECK
SERVICE MODE
FLICKER ADJ
SD LEVEL ©
525p OS (off)
HDCP1 (a)
HDCP2 (on)

From matt.hocker on avs.forum.com

FREEZE MSG probably just takes away the 'FREEZE' red message when freezing the screen. Didn't bother to test.

HD OVERSCAN actually makes the overscan WORSE - it shaves another 20 pixels off all 4 sides.

RUNTIME PRT is ON and can be turned OFF but has no visible effect. What does it mean?

FAN FULLMODE is OFF and can be turned ON but I didn't want to mess with the fan, I like it the way it is - quiet!

AUTO SETUP can be set to 'SPECIAL' which doesn't seem to have an effect, but that's because AUTO SETUP is not available in HDMI mode, only PC mode.

SELF CHECK provides a bunch of status data, such as the firmware revisions, the video mode (the annoying '750/60p'), IRIS OK, FAN OK, TEMP OK, TEMP1 155, TEMP2 180, an additional TEMP1 and 2 which read 255 (no sensor?) LAMP OK, 2000H OK, Total hours, RESET 0... etc.

SERVICE MODE gives a series of test screens to look at. Note that you can choose which colour and then cycle through the test screens for that colour - it uses all 4 arrows. I didn't notice this initially!.

FLICKER ADJ lets you mess with the flicker settings for each colour in both DESK and CEILING. Oddly, I can't get green to be fully flicker free. I find the best way to use this menu is to look away from the screen and use peripheral vision in addition to looking directly at the screen.

SD LEVEL can be set to A through F but I don't understand what it means and there is no visible difference on HDMI. Any tips?

525p OS can be ON or OFF but I'm not using that mode so it has no effect.

HDCP1 can be A through G or 0 through 2 but has no effect as my signal doesn't carry HDCP.
HDCP2 can be ON or OFF but no effect for the same reason.

I held down the ENTER button on this menu but only got RS-232C SEL (which was defaulted to RS-232C not D-SUB, the other option) and FH MODE which can be ON or OFF but makes no visible difference.

From hitchfan on avsforum.com
This is NOT an authoritative answer by any means, but I just wanted to share that, after I got my AE-700 back from the firmware upgrade, my friends and I all started to "sense" that there was a tad bit more visible Screen Door Effect on it than there was before I sent it in.

I went to the hidden menu and saw that the SD Level was on "B". I set it to "A" (having no idea what SD Level really meant).

Now the Screen Door Effect is just as smooth as it was before I sent it in for the upgrade.

I don't know if it was because I set it to "A" or if it was because my HD reception happened to be going through a glitchy period before I monkeyed with the SD Level adjustment, but the improvement did seem to coincide with my setting it to "A".

I haven't experimented with "C" or "D" to see what happens (too spooked, I guess. lol) but I'd also like to know just what SD Level adjustment is supposed to do.

From aussiebob on avsforum.com
Managed to get my hands on a Service Manual for the AE700. It's on CD and is heavily interwoven with about three hundred other Panasonic products. In other words, it's not just a simple PDF file. Some sort of proprietary Panasonic Database called (original title, eh?) "Panaview".

Preamble
I have to say, we've worked out most of the nuances here in this thread. The manual only clears up a few mysteries re the "secret" Service Menu (and none at all concerning the "secret-secret" menu that tags off the Service Menu. Seems its a secret even to the Panasonic guys).

Here are a few things I jotted down. As I find more, I'll update. This list is in no particular order of importance or relevance. I'm just trying to remember questions asked up-thread about various puzzles in the menus. Forgive me if I forget any.

The Correct Way to do Flicker Adjustment
All my theorizing about doing the flicker adjustment when the unit is cold seems to be just that: theorizing. There's no mention in the Service Manual of adjusting flicker before the unit heats up. The adjustment is as easy/hard for techs as it is for us Moonbats: "Just keep tweaking until you don't see any flicker." Not mention of hot, cold or in-between. Sorry to disappoint anyone who was expecting special tricks of the trade. It's about as banal as you can get. Just "adjust for minimum flicker" is all it says to do.

The Mysterious "RUNTIME PRT" menu item
***ON means the unit shuts down after two-thousand hours lamp runtime.
***OFF overrides automatic shutdown. You can keep your lamp blazing until your house burns to the ground if this option is OFF (not recommended).

AUTO SETUP: NORMAL/SPECIAL.
Here I quote from the manual:

- AUTOSETUP
Setting AUTO SETUP mode
- NORMAL: To set the normal mode (the dot clock is adjusted strictly)
- SPECIAL: To set the special mode (the dot clock is adjusted roughly)
* Do not change the initial setting (NORMAL).

Don't know if I prefer it "strict" or "rough". I'm a bitch like that. Aw hell... just leave AUTOSETUP on NORMAL!

SELF CHECK Mode
I've left out items that are self-explanatory. The opposite of "OK" after a parameter is "NG" (no-good).

Version numbering
The version information on the top line is as follows
*Rx.xx is the software version.
*Ax.xx is the FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) or custom chip version.

"G SAVED" and "U SAVED"
refer to whether or not Gamma Correction and Color Unevenness Correction data have been uploaded to the projector. Every projector has its "personal", idiosyncratic flaws, and these data are supposed to be corrections for those flaws. Every AE700 should have "OK" when it leaves the factory.

"TEMP OK"
Does not mean that the lamp temperature is running "OK". It means that, in the event of lamp failure, the lamp did not fail because the temperature became too hot. If the lamp did overheat prior to failing this would read "NG". It's to tell the serviceperson why your projector blew up (mine read "OK" by the way, and the lamp had melted down!... so much for "TEMP OK")

Left-hand column TEMP1 and TEMP2
* TEMP1 is the current temperature around the LCD panels.
* TEMP2 is the current temperature at the air filter.

Right-hand column TEMP1 and TEMP2
These are statistical temperature readings:
* TEMP1 is the temperature around the LCD panels when the projector last shut down due to thermal overload.
* TEMP2 is the temperature at the air filter when the projector last shut down due to thermal overload.

"FAN OK"
Once again, does not mean the fan is currently working properly. It is a statistical entry. When the lamp fails, "OK" means the lamp was running when it failed. "NG" means the lamp was not running when the lamp failed. At least that's what I think it means. Here's the quote from the manual: "Fan Stop Check - Cause Of Lamp Malfunction" - go figure.

"TOTAL ****H"
Total Usage Time, not total lamp time. This is the AE700's odometer.

The Confusing Lamp Hour Readouts
I'll give it to you straight from the manual.

Left-hand column: xxxxHnn = "Cumulative Usage Time (actual time)"
Middle Column: *** = "ON Frequency"
Right-hand column: xxxxHnn = "Cumulative Usage Time (conversion time for 130W)

"ON Frequency" is the number of times you've turned the projector on and off. "Conversion for 130W" is total hours lamp time plus a loading for "HIGH" lamp usgae. What the two digits ("nn") are after "H", I don't know for sure, but my theory is that they represent a total of improper shutdowns (i.e. mains cord pulled direct at the wall socket, not gradual cool-down via the remote).

I have the service manual and I believe I can do the convergence myself. I need the service cable kit so I can proceed with the convergence. Can you tell me where I can order this kit? thanks

You can try Panasonic itself or a Service Centre (the part no. is in the manual). Here in Canada it is not considered an end user item but I do know that some service centres will purchase one for you. For us Canadians the price is exorbitant for a set of cables, in my opinion. ($300 +)

It is likely that cables could be made up as long as there are no cross connections.

ted

Where and how do I perform Firmware updates on the PT-AE900U

Thanks!

I called panasonic today about my rebate and said that I passed and it will be shipped once more blockbuster cards came in (2-3 weeks) and the lady said there will be a new expiration date on them. Just a heads up. I sent my forms on june 1st.

BTW how can you reach the service menu and also how to adjust the convergance? I have a little bit of a convergance problem I can fix myself.

I called panasonic today about my rebate and said that I passed and it will be shipped once more blockbuster cards came in (2-3 weeks) and the lady said there will be a new expiration date on them. Just a heads up. I sent my forms on june 1st.


If it were me, I would call back and tell them to send the $400 NOW and the BB cards when they get them. This is a big game with the rebate process. There are very subtle incentives (i.e. rewards) for the third parties that process these for minimizing the number that "pass" (using the poster's terminology). I've always made it a point to use the phone number repeatedly until they send my money. It has amazed me at times that no matter how long it's been; it isn't until I make a call that I'm told "yep, that will go out within five days" (which it does). :rolleyes:

Anyone have any experience with the Panny 900 outdoors at night and the 1100 lumins? I am concerned over picture quality but plan on using it for nighttime movies and sports events.

I've had no problems with the brightness of my image on my outdoor 12' wide screen. I just have to make sure the sky is dark before I start projecting. My backyard doesn't get much ambient light. I've used it with great success with movies from a DVD player and with an HD broadcast of The Sopranos season finale. FYI...I'm using a short component cable run from my DVD player and from my cable box.

http://www.dtvforum.info/lofiversion/index.php/t15475.html


I have sourced this info from other threads and forums about the new 1.07 firmware. The options in the service ('EXT') menu (accessed by pressing and holding ENTER from the Option->OSD menu) are:

FREEZE MSG (on)
HD OVERSCAN (off)
RUNTIME PRT (on)
FAN FULLMODE (off)
AUTO SETUP (normal)
SELF CHECK
SERVICE MODE
FLICKER ADJ
SD LEVEL ©
525p OS (off)
HDCP1 (a)
HDCP2 (on)



I'm assuming you know this is the 900 thread, not the 700. This menu is different on the 900. I'm also unaware of firmware upgrades for the 900, although if someone knows otherwise please let me know.

[QUOTE=cpcat]I got the 900 service manual for 8 bucks. The 700 is the same.



Thanks for the info. I will remember this site in the future. I spent a lot more for the same thing at another site. Do you have a site where I can buy the service kit TZSH07017 at a reasonable price? I need it to adjust the convergence of my projector.

Don't know what you would consider reasonable, but here it is:
http://www.partstore.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductSKU=8058939&s=froogle

Another option (apparently in a couple of days):


From UED (https://www.ued.net/ued/addItems.do?itemCode=MSCTZSH07017)

A little cheaper, assuming it becomes in stock...

Hello all,

I am in Tampa Florida and I just got Verizon FiosTV. This was the first time I was able to put HD content through the 900. At first it looks really awesome until I was watching a Foo Fighters concert on MTV-HD. I was getting this pixelization during strobe and laser scenes. Enough to really make watching this concert non enjoyable.

I have had 3 techs out to my house. Two of them have never seen this pixelization before and the third one thinks it is my projector. Is there anyone that is running HD-TV, HD-DVD player or Blu-ray into their 900 and if so are you seeing what I am.

I have taken two pictures of my screen.

Thanks,

Steve.

I have the ae900 projecting onto a High Power screen with a MOXI box (Digital HD) over Component with a 25 foot cable. Discovery HD and PBS HD look great. HBO HD varies with content. SD is usually pretty crappy. Sometimes they broadcast non-HD content on HD stations (typically in 4:3 format), which looks OK, but not great.

You have to set your HD box for 720p to get the best image from the 900. Check the resolution at the bottom of the 900 menu. I don't know about FIOS.

Hello all,

I am in Tampa Florida and I just got Verizon FiosTV. This was the first time I was able to put HD content through the 900. At first it looks really awesome until I was watching a Foo Fighters concert on MTV-HD. I was getting this pixelization during strobe and laser scenes. Enough to really make watching this concert non enjoyable.

I have had 3 techs out to my house. Two of them have never seen this pixelization before and the third one thinks it is my projector. Is there anyone that is running HD-TV, HD-DVD player or Blu-ray into their 900 and if so are you seeing what I am.

I have taken two pictures of my screen.

Thanks,

Steve.

Looks like MPEG artifacting to me.
Was this originally shot Video or Film? Hi Def or is it upconverted?
Any idea of the datastream bandwidth coming from the Cable provider?

Is he who blamed the pj familiar with FP? It is funny how people are so willing to blame an FP when they would not so readily blame another display type. I once had a Producer friend over who claimed he was seeing pixels when I kept insisting it was compression artifacts. It wasn't until I pressed his nose to the screen that he was willing to accept that what he was seeing was indeed *larger* than an individual pixel. He also initially claimed to be seeing my screen "texture" until I showed him it was textureless. Recently he dropped in and I showed him some WMV clips I had - he was amazed that he could no longer see the "texture" he once complained of and asked if I'd changed my screen. Nope but the "source" had better bandwidth.

ted

Can I use a AE900 with a 4X3 screen, set up to just use the middle portion of the image, ie black bars on sides, not on top and bottom? I have an existing 4X3 motorized screen that I do not want to replace at this time, as well as 90 percent of viewing is 4X3 material.

I know s-video inputs wont be a problem, but what about component 16X9 input or pc 1024X768 input. can the projector scale the computer image with the black bars on the side?

Thanks

david

Hey guys,
---------------------------
Looks like MPEG artifacting to me.
Was this originally shot Video or Film? Hi Def or is it upconverted?
Any idea of the datastream bandwidth coming from the Cable provider?
Is he who blamed the pj familiar with FP?
----------------------------

Yea...that is what I am leading to believe is the culprit...mpeg-2 compression artifacts. I am not sure if the original content was shot in but I see it not only on my PJ but now also on my analog tv. Seems like it varies from channel to channel.

You know that is what I was asking...he referred me to a diagnostics menu that showed the (Mbps) between nodes on my network and said from what I was saying it looked kinda low. So he asked me to hook up the directly bypassing the splitter. It increased but when I plugged it back it was the same. I don't think that is the problem anyway b/c it looks like this metric is showing speeds between my network and not what is coming down the pipe.

Funny you mention that with the tech knowing about FP. Talking to him more I come to find out that this guy used to fix the Verizon vans and was pulled in due to the high demand for the FIOS/TV services. He kept saying DVM instead of DVI even though I was running HDMI...So I let him go off into his 1960's flashback.
But he did mention that if I kept the signal bypassed like the FIOS center recommended that I would burn out the Set-Top-Box. So back to square one again.

-----------------------------------
You have to set your HD box for 720p to get the best image from the 900.
-----------------------------------

Yea I do notice that. I have it matched to the box.


I guess my questions would be about Mpeg-2. Would it be fair to say that this is normal artifact or limitation of the compression algorithm? How and what instrument would a tech need to have to measure if something is not good on the signal coming in or is this something to do with how the QAM-256 modulation process works? I really don't believe that it is on my side but something from the cloud or from the tv content providers putting out. Do you all experience this?

The quest continues....


Steve.

Hello all,

I am in Tampa Florida and I just got Verizon FiosTV. This was the first time I was able to put HD content through the 900. At first it looks really awesome until I was watching a Foo Fighters concert on MTV-HD. I was getting this pixelization during strobe and laser scenes. Enough to really make watching this concert non enjoyable.

I have had 3 techs out to my house. Two of them have never seen this pixelization before and the third one thinks it is my projector. Is there anyone that is running HD-TV, HD-DVD player or Blu-ray into their 900 and if so are you seeing what I am.

I have taken two pictures of my screen.

Thanks,

Steve.

I agree with TVTed.

I remember back a few years ago when CBS showed the Grammy's HD for the first time how everyone was commenting on the artifacting present with strobes/flashes. I think it's pretty normal unfortunately and you seem to see it more with 1080i than 720p. There's just not enough horsepower with 1080i to handle the rapidly changing info which has to be displayed.

I'm not sure that it has to do with it being 1080 or 720 but how these TV providers are trying to jam as much content into a limited amount of bandwidth and the way they do it with the MPEG-2 compression. I mean I don't get any artifacts when running my dvd player...so that is why I asked if those who have HD-DVD or Blu-Ray if playing movies with a one on one dedicated unit is better picture quality b/c you are getting 100% of the horsepower for the picture rather than Digital TV which is not.

I have heard that some Blu-ray discs are currently being produced using MPEG2 compression on 25GB single-layer discs...Not sure if this is true but if this is any indication of how 'great' fiber optic or digital Hi-def television is going to be...well I'm out of that race. I would rather watch all my channels on an analog television and save like $60 bucks a month!

Just my opinion...Anyone?


I agree with TVTed.

I remember back a few years ago when CBS showed the Grammy's HD for the first time how everyone was commenting on the artifacting present with strobes/flashes. I think it's pretty normal unfortunately and you seem to see it more with 1080i than 720p. There's just not enough horsepower with 1080i to handle the rapidly changing info which has to be displayed.

I have my HP screen pulled down in front of my big wall unit when watching DVDs and HDTV on the 900. Otherwise, I watch SD TV on my Sammy 56" DLP TV because the picture sucks in SD. I like my setup. My wall unit has the MOXI box and a Sony Reciever controlled by a OFA RF remote & receiver when watching the 900 (since IR remotes won't go thru the screen), a Panny 120G DVR hooked to an LG HD QAM tuner (but only records 480i thru SVideo, thanks to the movie industry restricting DVRs to 480i), and a Panny DVD changer.

But watching true HD with the Adelphia MOXI box to the 900 is sweet! You can't beat Discovery HD at 720p on a 106" HP screen! To me, it's well worth the extra $9 a month for the box vs the regular digital box. I mean, the MOXI box has it's quirks (like being SLOW!), but it does work, and stores a lot of shows in HD with a useable TV Guide. My DVR won't download the Guide from Gemstar since Adelphia went to fiberoptic digital only, so I use the MOXI box Guide (esp. "View Upcoming" for repeats) to figure out what shows to record on my DVR.

I had the Moxi, The only thing I didnt like about about it was that you can not download what you record to your computer... Otherwise it was OK but slow to

I just received my new 900 yesterday and I'm having a image shaking issue. I've tried the S-video signal from four different computer and with all of them the image is shaking ~8cm horizontally on the wall at ~5 hertz (one hertz with NTSC). Tried different cables, resolutions, PAL/NTSC formats etc. and it doesn't change anything. The image is perfect when the monitor cable is used with my laptop or scart or composite cable from my DVD player. Strangely the S-video signal worked from one digibox, so one out of five S-video sources worked.
Doesn't anyone have any ideas of what's going on or do I just take it directly to repair under warranty?

Just got my Graywolf II screen today from Costco. It came with a few little dents but in working condition. I recently upgraded projectors from the SP-4805 to the AE900 and decided I needed to upgrade my DIY screen as well.

I was using a sheet of melamine (also called Do-Able) and then I stretched some blackout cloth. I also tried some samples from Carada. While those screens and samples worked they just don't deliver the dimensional and sharp images like the Graywolf II. All I can say is the wow my xbox 360 looks great using this combination as well as movies.

So if anyone has doubts about what kind of screen to use; check out the Graywolf II.

anyone know of a good case for this projector (preferably less then $100)?

Hi all,

I got a Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher and a 25ft long HDMI cable for the Panny. If I use the switch the image from my Denon 3910 blinks on and off. If I go directly from the player to the projector with the 25ft cable there's no problem. Do you think the cable may be too long? Connecting to the switch adds 3 ft to the chain.

An suggestions would be hlepful.

Elio

Just got my Graywolf II screen today from Costco. It came with a few little dents but in working condition. I recently upgraded projectors from the SP-4805 to the AE900 and decided I needed to upgrade my DIY screen as well.

I was using a sheet of melamine (also called Do-Able) and then I stretched some blackout cloth. I also tried some samples from Carada. While those screens and samples worked they just don't deliver the dimensional and sharp images like the Graywolf II. All I can say is the wow my xbox 360 looks great using this combination as well as movies.

So if anyone has doubts about what kind of screen to use; check out the Graywolf II.

I can't see how you could not like the Carada BW with the ae900.I use this combo and the pic is just plain killer.Perfect balance and even image,STRANGE

I can't see how you could not like the Carada BW with the ae900.I use this combo and the pic is just plain killer.Perfect balance and even image,STRANGE

I'm with Budda on this. Especially having upgraded from a Graywolf 1 to a Criterion BW. As far as inexpensive screens go I totally agree. What you get for your 200 bucks from Optoma is amazing. But as far as resolution, color accuracy and contrast levels I find the Carada BW pretty hard to beat. I think it's the best value out there for a fixed frame screen.

Elio

I'm not sure that it has to do with it being 1080 or 720 but how these TV providers are trying to jam as much content into a limited amount of bandwidth and the way they do it with the MPEG-2 compression. I mean I don't get any artifacts when running my dvd player...so that is why I asked if those who have HD-DVD or Blu-Ray if playing movies with a one on one dedicated unit is better picture quality b/c you are getting 100% of the horsepower for the picture rather than Digital TV which is not.

I have heard that some Blu-ray discs are currently being produced using MPEG2 compression on 25GB single-layer discs...Not sure if this is true but if this is any indication of how 'great' fiber optic or digital Hi-def television is going to be...well I'm out of that race. I would rather watch all my channels on an analog television and save like $60 bucks a month!

Just my opinion...Anyone?


Exceptional quality DVD maxes out in the ~10Mbs range and that is for an SD signal. ATSC standards call for a full ~19Mbs datastream which is for a 1920 x 1080i signal. Quite a few broadcasters/cable providers do not provide yhat sort of rate - using some of it for other digital packets. So there can be issues when you try to fit all that data into a slower bitstream. That is why I asked you about the data rate. It is quite possible that you were seeing a source that was being upscaled and encoded realtime (single pass) loaded into a slow bitstream.

Next gen optical has a considerably higher data rate than maxed-out OTA, and approaches transparency to the D5 masters when properly done. Most comments I've read suggests that with a good display, HD DVD readily surpasses OTA HD. As to BD, there is certainly something amiss as the 25 GB single layer BD should at least be as good as D_Theatre which is certainly better than OTA.

I don't think what you are seeing is any way a good example of what is available with next gen optical disc - particularly since we are in the teething period. HD optical should be to HD OTA as DVD is to SD OTA.

ted

I just received my new 900 yesterday and I'm having a image shaking issue. I've tried the S-video signal from four different computer and with all of them the image is shaking ~8cm horizontally on the wall at ~5 hertz (one hertz with NTSC). Tried different cables, resolutions, PAL/NTSC formats etc. and it doesn't change anything. The image is perfect when the monitor cable is used with my laptop or scart or composite cable from my DVD player. Strangely the S-video signal worked from one digibox, so one out of five S-video sources worked.
Doesn't anyone have any ideas of what's going on or do I just take it directly to repair under warranty?

You might be getting interference from mains disturbance - my laundry appliances induce instability in some systems, or the particular source does not have stable synch on its S-Video output.

I'd bet if you polled the users hereabout concerning S-Video you would discover that, outside of Composite it is the worst means of transporting a signal to a modern display and should be avoided where possible. You are doing your display's PQ a disservice by using it. As a minimum you should be using Component where possible with a modern display.

ted

I got a Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switcher and a 25ft long HDMI cable for the Panny. If I use the switch the image from my Denon 3910 blinks on and off. If I go directly from the player to the projector with the 25ft cable there's no problem. Do you think the cable may be too long? Connecting to the switch adds 3 ft to the chain.

I use a 35ft 24AWG Monoprice HDMI cable with no problems from both my Sony NS75H and my HTPC with DVI adapter. I doubt it is the length.

I use a 35ft 24AWG Monoprice HDMI cable with no problems from both my Sony NS75H and my HTPC with DVI adapter. I doubt it is the length.

I tried it with my old 16ft cable. Had to add a dvi-hdmi adapter. It worked fine with it. Must be sitehr a bad 25ft cable or a weird combo of cable-dvd player-projector.

Thanks for the response though. I appreciate you taking the time!!

Elio

I've had this for a couple of weeks now and thought I would give some impressions. Bought form projectorpeople and everything went fine. The screen lagged behind so initially I just set it up projecting onto a king-sized bedsheet hanging over my entertainment center. My throw is 20 ft from a buffet type table in the back of the room at 5 ft. off the floor. This a few inches above the center of the screen. My image is 110" diagonal.

First impressions were excellent even with the bedsheet. Blacks were very deep and colors seemed fine. No noticeable VB or softness that I could see. No SDE from my viewing position at 15 feet.
Ambient light obviously would wash everything out though. I used Cinema 1 and set it up with AVIA. A 50ft HDMI cable from monoprice (the thicker one) seemed to work fine both hooked to my D* STB and to the Toshiba A1. Also tried it via my Lumagen VisionHDP video processor (set at 720p, 1:1 mapping confirmed). I felt the picture was fine either with or without the vp and couldn't really see much difference.

Next up the DaLite 110 inch diag. high power screen. Installation took a little ingenuity and fiddling (see pics). I used the wall mounts from DaLite. As you'd expect everything jumped in brightness considerably. The screen is retroreflective so works best projecting as close to your viewing angle as possible, i.e., just clearing my big head. Within the 60 degree viewing cone it is BRIGHT even in Cinema 1 and lamp low. Brightness drops considerably out of the cone though. Very watchable even with some dim ambient light within the cone. Disadvantages include picture noise is much more visible and blacks are elevated. I'd say they were still about as dark as my NEC plasma though at this point so still acceptable. Noise was a little distracting especially with the D* sat feed. Mostly what I was seeing was mosquito noise around faces and visible background dithering. I put the Lumagen VP back in and things were much improved. This also allows me to switch between the Sat feed and the Toshiba A1 which is an added plus. I still see what I think is akin to the "silk screen effect" with pans against light backgrounds. I believe this is a compromise in getting the added brightness from the HP screen.

Finally comes the 81EF filter. I got it from adorama (B&W, 77mm, threads into the Panny's lens). Blacks are now deep again even with the HP screen. Subjectively, I think they are on par with those I had with the bedsheet. Watched War of the Worlds on HBO-HD and was really impressed. I'm using normal mode, low lamp and it still seems very bright within the cone. Can still easily watch with some low ambient lighting especially within the cone. If I need to I can go to Dynamic (still with low lamp) for some added punch or if I need added brightness for mulitple person viewing. I've settled on using MikeSRC's latest advanced menu settings (for normal mode using the 81EF, see the 900 tweak thread), then adjusted the basic settings again through AVIA.

One thing about the 81EF filter is it seems to result in green push. The AVIA color decoder check suggests about +20 percent green. I corrected this by dialing down COLORGREEN in my Lumagen's adjustment menu by -35. This brought all the colors to zero and seems to provide a very pleasing picture. I would hope the same is possible through the Panny's color management menu but I've yet to figure out how to do it there.

Overall, very pleased with my first front projection experience. :)

Can anybody tell me where I can find the serial number of the unit? Is it supposed to be stamped next to the manufacture date? My is stamped with the manufacture date but I don't see anything that looks like it should be a serial number. Can anybody help me?

Hey guys, I've been looking at the 900 for a while and wanted to double check with you all... I'm mainly going to be using my projector for playing Xbox 360, will the 900 be a good fit or is there another that I should look at?

Nevermind on the serial number. It was just hiding under a small part of my mount that I didn't think was big enough to hide a serial number.

One thing about the 81EF filter is it seems to result in green push. The AVIA color decoder check suggests about +20 percent green. I corrected this by dialing down COLORGREEN in my Lumagen's adjustment menu by -35. This brought all the colors to zero and seems to provide a very pleasing picture. I would hope the same is possible through the Panny's color management menu but I've yet to figure out how to do it there.

Overall, very pleased with my first front projection experience. :)

cpcat,

Are you adjusting at the greyscale level (RGB) per settings (Mike's I'd venture) found in the tweak thread? This green push is *after* those settings?

The EF requires such changes as it is a CC filter and actually *cuts* green and blue. I can't find an online transmission graph but I've got one in my hand. It *cuts* GRN about 50% , Cuts BL about 75% while only cutting RED about 10%. Overall it drops output by about 2/3's a stop. So something seems amiss.

ted

I, too am getting green tinge around the edges, and yellow tint overall, that I have to adjust out by increasing red and decreasing green contrast and brightness - too much to make sense. I am still not happy with the picture. Grays look OK, it's just the faces that bug me. It's like a green tinge around the edges and overall yellowish tint that makes everyone look like they have jaundice. DVE looked OK, but other sources and DVDs don't look right!

I never noticed that with the graywolf screen, just with the High Power, even with the 81EF filter and tweaking grayscale per everyone's settings in the tweaks thread. Maybe the newer ae900s have a green/yellow push that the older ones don't? Or maybe the High Power screen is the culprit. Someone said the HP screen accentuates yellow in one of the threads.

cpcat,

Are you adjusting at the greyscale level (RGB) per settings (Mike's I'd venture) found in the tweak thread? This green push is *after* those settings?

The EF requires such changes as it is a CC filter and actually *cuts* green and blue. I can't find an online transmission graph but I've got one in my hand. It *cuts* GRN about 50% , Cuts BL about 75% while only cutting RED about 10%. Overall it drops output by about 2/3's a stop. So something seems amiss.

ted

I am using MikeSRC's settings for greyscale but I'm using the COLORGREEN adjustment on the Lumagen to account for green push.

I'm open to suggestions, but at this point I'm pretty happy with how things look.

I, too am getting green tinge around the edges, and yellow tint overall, that I have to adjust out by increasing red and decreasing green contrast and brightness - too much to make sense. I am still not happy with the picture.

I'm hoping someone can tell us how to adjust this through the color management menu. I don't think it's fixable through RGB contrast/brightness adjustment.

The Lumagen has individual green/red color and hue adjustments. My NEC plasma has gain/cuts for the three primaries as well as cyan, magenta, and yellow.

The thing is, I tweaked the CMM colors with DVE when I had the graywolf screen, and the color chart in DVE actually looks better with the HP screen than it did with the GW2 screen. It's just when you get to the mid-IRE colors it gets all weird. At least I think that's what's going on (without a lumagen or color meter, I can only guess by what I see).

What do these scalers go for? I'm trying to keep things within a budget, and it's already over what I had planned! I saw one that scales, transcodes and deinterlaces sell used for $999! That's way out of my league! Is there a simpler (ie cheaper) model, or are they all that pricey?

Is there a difference in picture quality using the HDMI input or Component?

I plan to connect my Denon 3900 and also a HDcable box which on gets the Component and which on gets the HDMI.

Or do I use component on both

The cable run is going to be 25'


Thanks for any help

What do these scalers go for? I'm trying to keep things within a budget, and it's already over what I had planned! I saw one that scales, transcodes and deinterlaces sell used for $999! That's way out of my league! Is there a simpler (ie cheaper) model, or are they all that pricey?

I think the Lumagens are among the cheaper ones. They lack some features (like audio delay) but are very good otherwise.

Is there a difference in picture quality using the HDMI input or Component?

I plan to connect my Denon 3900 and also a HDcable box which on gets the Component and which on gets the HDMI.

Or do I use component on both

The cable run is going to be 25'


Thanks for any help

You could get an HDMI switcher from monoprice and then you'd only have to run one cable. Might consider picking up the HDMI cable there as well.

I was wondering if anyone has any out of warranty broken ae900's that are too expensive to repair? I know when things like an LCD go out, a whole new optical block is near $1000. If more than one thing is wrong with it, the parts plus labor could end up costing more than what you paid for the unit. If this is you and are planning on just throwing your 900 away, send me a message... I might want to buy your broken 900 for cheap. Thanks.

I am using MikeSRC's settings for greyscale but I'm using the COLORGREEN adjustment on the Lumagen to account for green push.

I'm open to suggestions, but at this point I'm pretty happy with how things look.

Just curious,
What Picture Mode are you using?

Also,
I believe that Colour Management works with specific Hues, so would not reduce Green on the greyscale. In this sense it would not remove a Green *cast* if this is the true.

ted

Thinking about an AE900 for home movie use. And to occasionally take to business meetings to deliver Keynote/PowerPoint presentations via my laptop.

Any drawbacks on the latter? How close can it be positioned to the screen and still focus properly?

Thanks...

Brad

Just got my Graywolf II screen today from Costco. It came with a few little dents but in working condition. I recently upgraded projectors from the SP-4805 to the AE900 and decided I needed to upgrade my DIY screen as well.


Hi sparkbox,

I'm thinking of giving the 900 a try. I've been using an X1 (4805 cousin) for three years and I'd like to get better blacks. Will the 900 have better blacks and more detail in the dark areas?

Thanks!

Color Management does not really affect the grayscale. I played with it to tweak the colors, but it didn't really do anything for the green or yellow "push" or whatever it is. I think I like the Dynamic mode, with Contrast and Color turned down. It seems to reduce the green push. With my settings, there is a bit of a pink tinge, but faces don't look green and jaundiced, which really bothered me with Normal mode. I couldn't seem to be able to tweak it out in Normal mode. Maybe I'll try again later.

I still think I want to try the 81C or CC30M or CC40M filter with Normal mode, but I am waiting for someone here to advise me as to which one might be better...

By the way, someone said there are 3 user modes for each input. I don't see that as being true. I think there are only 3 user modes and 3 CCM user modes and that's it, regardless of input. I can switch inputs and select a different user mode, and it is the same settings I had set up for a different input. I wish that were true! It would allow more experimentation and comparisons. It would be like having 9 (or more) user modes (6 for the DVD thru HDMI and component1, and 3 more for the HD box thru component2.

Hi sparkbox,

I'm thinking of giving the 900 a try. I've been using an X1 (4805 cousin) for three years and I'd like to get better blacks. Will the 900 have better blacks and more detail in the dark areas?




I have not seen the X1, but the 4805 produces darker blacks but less detail in comparison to the AE900. But with using a gray screen I find the blacks dark enough to produce an image that has more depth. When I used white screens with gains of 1.0 and 1.4 I found the blacks to be dark gray.

I also recommend that you use a high quality component connection (I am using a cable I got from bluejeanscable.com). I tried using the VGA and found that the image brightness was too high and colors looked washed (blacks were completely gray even with adjustment and image was coming from and xbox 360). I have not tried the HDMI connection but I feel that HDMI signals have a problem running over lengths of 20' and in my case my length is 25' to my projector (13' in the ceiling 8.5' down the wall to the floor and 3.5 to the receiver).

I think the benefit you will see switching to the AE900 which provides a native 720p and gave me better details with almost non-existent SDE than the SP-4805 with . The blacks while marginally lighter than the SP-4805 but the AE900 produce more detail with movies and video games. In fact, my wife I frequently made comments like "I never saw that before" referencing to the increased details we experienced with the AE900.

Hope that helps

Matt

Thanks Matt, that does help.

cpcat,

Are you adjusting at the greyscale level (RGB) per settings (Mike's I'd venture) found in the tweak thread? This green push is *after* those settings?

The EF requires such changes as it is a CC filter and actually *cuts* green and blue. I can't find an online transmission graph but I've got one in my hand. It *cuts* GRN about 50% , Cuts BL about 75% while only cutting RED about 10%. Overall it drops output by about 2/3's a stop. So something seems amiss.

ted

Hey Ted,

Do you know how much the CC30/40M filters cut red, green and blue?

Thanks!

Sup guys,

Here it goes, my first post, i just ordered the AE900U, and i am so excited to try it out. I am new to this, and this will be my first projector. Last week i was at my friends house and saw his 4805 running on 72" diagonal screen and i was so impressed with the size and quality of the picture, i know i had to set up my own home theater. So here i am just bought this and i am waiting for it to arrive. Ill post my impressions as soon as i have everything set up and going.

Sevdah

I think Magenta is supposed to be equal parts of blue and red, so it should only cut green. Is that right?

Check out this forum page:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10937

What about the 85A filter (orange)? Maybe it would cut more green than the 81EF?

Sup guys,

Here it goes, my first post, i just ordered the AE900U, and i am so excited to try it out. I am new to this, and this will be my first projector. Last week i was at my friends house and saw his 4805 running on 72" diagonal screen and i was so impressed with the size and quality of the picture, i know i had to set up my own home theater. So here i am just bought this and i am waiting for it to arrive. Ill post my impressions as soon as i have everything set up and going.

Sevdah

Good News Sevdah'Lets us know when your up and running,What screen are you going to use,I have the Carada bw 110in screnn and it is fanatastic with the ae 900 THANKS BUDDA

Hi Everyone, I am an official member of the the club! I just bought a Panny AE900! I am looking forward to getting it setup. I do have a question:

Here is the layout: My family room is 16x20, white walls, hardwood floors, light can be controlled. I will have the projector mounted about 14 feet from the screen. The seating distance from the screen will range from 7 feet to 11 feet.

Yes, I like everyone else like big! :D But, I have heard that too big is just as bad as too small. How big of a screen can or should I buy?

Thank you.

Hi Everyone, I am an official member of the the club! I just bought a Panny AE900! I am looking forward to getting it setup. I do have a question:

Here is the layout: My family room is 16x20, white walls, hardwood floors, light can be controlled. I will have the projector mounted about 14 feet from the screen. The seating distance from the screen will range from 7 feet to 11 feet.

Yes, I like everyone else like big! :D But, I have heard that too big is just as bad as too small. How big of a screen can or should I buy?

Thank you.

Just shoot it on the wall first when you get it to determine how big of a screen works for you. One thing I would consider is painting your walls. White will really wash out your picture especially if you go large. I'm not saying you need to go really dark, but some color will help or even go with a beige or brown tone. Plus white walls are really boring IMO. Maybe check out some local model homes to get ideas. I'd bet you anything you won't find one white wall there. It will really improve your picture as well as the overall look of the room. Have fun with your new PJ, you'll love it.

Just shoot it on the wall first when you get it to determine how big of a screen works for you. One thing I would consider is painting your walls. White will really wash out your picture especially if you go large. I'm not saying you need to go really dark, but some color will help or even go with a beige or brown tone. Plus white walls are really boring IMO. Maybe check out some local model homes to get ideas. I'd bet you anything you won't find one white wall there. It will really improve your picture as well as the overall look of the room. Have fun with your new PJ, you'll love it.

Hi Jandawi, thank you for the reply. I do not want to change my white walls, they go with all my furniture and photography artwork. I have a very contemporary look. It is pretty cool. But, I can control the light in the room, and basically, I am only going to use the Panny at night, and mostly to watch movies. I use my Sharp LCD during the day. I think it will be a great combo.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how big a screen I can or should buy? Again, the family room is 16X20, with hardwood floors, panny mounted at 14 feet, seating from the screen at 7 to 11 feet.

How will you be mounting your ae900 - ceiling or head-height? Seating at 7' is pretty close. For 11', a 106" screen is nice, but for 7' you might want to go with 92" diagonal (16:9 HDTV format). You might check Best Buy. I tried out a few there, and you have 30 days to return the screen with no restocking fee. They have Optoma Matte White screens pretty cheap. Or you could order one from Staples.com and return it to the store. That's how I settled on the size for my living room (106"). I sit at 10', which is as close as I would recommend for that size screen. 92" screens are considerably cheaper than 106" screens when you move up to higher-end fabrics and cases.

How will you be mounting your ae900 - ceiling or head-height? Seating at 7' is pretty close. For 11', a 106" screen is nice, but for 7' you might want to go with 92" diagonal (16:9 HDTV format). You might check Best Buy. I tried out a few there, and you have 30 days to return the screen with no restocking fee. They have Optoma Matte White screens pretty cheap. Or you could order one from Staples.com and return it to the store. That's how I settled on the size for my living room (106"). I sit at 10', which is as close as I would recommend for that size screen. 92" screens are considerably cheaper than 106" screens when you move up to higher-end fabrics and cases.

Iggyman, thank you for the post. I am mounting the Panny from the ceiling of the kitchen, which opens to my family room. I have vaulted ceilings, but where the family room opens to the kitchen, the projector can be mounted from the overhang, which has a stud. The overhang is about 11 feet high, so I thought I could mount the projector at about 7 or 8 feet? Or, I could mount on the wall that connects to the overhang, it also has a Stud, and I could place it at basically any height, or I could table mount it on the Kitchen counter, (it would look fine, the height could be anywhere from 48" to 62".

I am new to this arena, so I appreciate any advice on mounting the projector and screen size for my room and viewing distance. Thanks for the help.

Doug

I say get the 92" matte white screen at BB so you can see how it looks. You say you have light control, but you'd be surprised at how much white walls and ceiling can light up the room and reduce your contrast ratio. High Power and Gray Wolf screens are retroreflective, so they work best mounted between 2' (table) and 5' (wall mount) high, or you will be outside the viewing cone and lose much of the punch. That is not an issue with matte white screens, but light control is important for white screens! Check out the screens threads. Every screen has its strengths and weaknesses, and there is not perfect screen. Start with matte white as a reference, since they can be easily returned. Other fancy screens (except the Grey Wolf, which may be too dim and textured for your setup) are not easy to return (you will pay ($35-50 x 2) for shipping both ways and a 15-20% restocking fee).

P.S. it's iggyMAMA. I'm not a dude, and I have a 12 year old pet iguana, hence the username!

Hi. Ihave a Panny 900 with a 106" Dalite HP which performs very well.
However when I try HD cable, the screen says it is 480i instead of 1080i
When I use the DVD player the screen shows 480p,which is correct.
Used to have a Hitachi CRT and when fed cable the screen showed 1080i.

Called cable co. and the reset the box with no luck.

I am running thru an Outlaw 970 processor with Silver Serpent cables.
Using the composite inputs
Any ideas welcomed! Ps This is my first post.................Ron

Hi. Ihave a Panny 900 with a 106" Dalite HP which performs very well.
However when I try HD cable, the screen says it is 480i instead of 1080i
When I use the DVD player the screen shows 480p,which is correct.
Used to have a Hitachi CRT and when fed cable the screen showed 1080i.

Called cable co. and the reset the box with no luck.

I am running thru an Outlaw 970 processor with Silver Serpent cables.
Using the composite inputs
Any ideas welcomed! Ps This is my first post.................Ron

If you are not running Component, HDMI or DVI inputs, you won't get 720p, only 480i. Do you mean component? Did you go into the setup menu on your HD box and set it up for 720p or 1080i (720p is probably better).

The MOXI box from adelphia has the resolution settings in the HDTV setup menu. Yours may be different. What cable company and box do you have? Did you go into the setup menu?

I had this same problem. I didn't feel like it would get any better, in fact, I was concerned that it would get worse, so I sent my unit back during the evaluation period. This is not a "normal start up issue." The fan whining and the iris clicking are, and they stop after a few minutes. The fan grinding does not.

If I were you, I would see if your dealer will swap it out. Panasonic's policy with their dealers is that they will swap out defective projectors within the first 30 days, so your dealer has recourse, and so should you. I think that the hour limit most dealers impose is geared toward those who simply return the projector because they have buyer's remorse, or don't like the projector for some reason. A defect is an entirely different deal.

I did speak with the West Coast rep for Panasonic on this issue, so it will not be the first time that Panasonic had heard of it.



Got my 900 last wednesday. After 20hrs the supposed fan grinding sound started in low power/fan. I tried cranking it up for the iris howl (changed iris setting also), no effect. In high power/fan the grinding is unbelievably loud, 10 minute headache loud. Waiting for a call back from visual apex, they said they would replace. The only thing I am wondering about now is the shipping cost and when to submit the rebate. I'll update...

How is your ae900 mounted Morb? Some have had similar noise with ceiling mount, or mounting tilted. The ae900 works best right side up and level.

How is your ae900 mounted Morb? Some have had similar noise with ceiling mount, or mounting tilted. The ae900 works best right side up and level.

My ae900 is ceiling mounted and no noise at all.I guess some have bad fans,BUDDA

How is your ae900 mounted Morb? Some have had similar noise with ceiling mount, or mounting tilted. The ae900 works best right side up and level.




It's right side up and if it's out of level it is not more than an inch. Still no call from visual apex. If I don't get a call early tomorrow I will call them back.

CAN ANYONE POST PICS OF THEIR AE900 IN A SLIGHTLY LIT ROOM (wife doesn't believe they will be viewable with some ambient INDIRECT light in the room).....hopefully I will get mine before CFB starts.

I can have directed spots for reading and still view the screen. It's much better when the lights are out. I can not really take a picture of this... I also have a Stewart Grayhawk screen so it's a little darking than a white screen.

On the ae900 are you suppose to use overscan and noise reduction.To me with noise reduction off the pic is slightly shaper.Usally any noise reduction is done by softing the pic.Any ideas ,THANKS

I don't use overscan because I use an external scaler. You need to use it otherwise unless you don't mind seeing an underscanned image or you use the zoom to put the underscan off the screen. I do use noise reduction as it helps some with dithering noise. I don't see any difference in resolution between on/off. It seems to be a very mild implementation and I actually wish there were an option for a little more aggressive mode.

The amount of noise you see will depend on your settings and your screen.

Hi, this has probably been discussed but since this thread is 91 pages long I was wondering if anyone has had problems with things other then the bulb and if I should buy an extended warranty/service plan. When I tried to google the warranty companies all I saw was bad stuff but I figure that might be because no one writes about a warranty plan unless its something bad. I'm leaning towards getting it from VisualApex of proviewdigital.com. Thanks!

... should buy an extended warranty/service plan. When I tried to google the warranty companies all I saw was bad stuff but I figure that might be because no one writes about a warranty plan unless its something bad. I'm leaning towards getting it from VisualApex of proviewdigital.com. Thanks!

I'm leaning towards getting this Panny PJ as a replacement for my NEC HT1100. I can't apeak about VisualApex but I can tell you that I bought the lamp warranty (three years, two replacement lamps) when I got the NEC. It was absolutly the right thing to do. At roughly $400 per lamp, you end up getting two lamps for $99. I have collected one of the two lamps with no questions asked and no hassle at all. As a result, I am much more comfortable letting the PJ stay in the "normal" mode vs. "economy". In other words, let the sucker shine brightly because the next lamp is a phone call away. By the way, I'm at 1144 hours on the current lamp (50% left) but I may swap it out early because I do love the brightness that only a new lamp can provide.

CAN ANYONE POST PICS OF THEIR AE900 IN A SLIGHTLY LIT ROOM (wife doesn't believe they will be viewable with some ambient INDIRECT light in the room).....hopefully I will get mine before CFB starts.

You can view some of the screen shots on my HT thread. I took some ones with ambient light like this one:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/jandawil/front_rt2.jpg

It looks blurry because I did not pause the DVD or use a tri-pod. If you have non white walls and keep the light off to the sides with sconces or lighting behind the PJ you will really enjoy the picture. I have a decent amount of light for lighter viewing like sports with the guys or something but turn them off for movie time. This picture looks darker than the room actually is because it's focused on the screen part which is darker. The seating area is well lit. I'll try to take more.

CAN ANYONE POST PICS OF THEIR AE900 IN A SLIGHTLY LIT ROOM (wife doesn't believe they will be viewable with some ambient INDIRECT light in the room).....hopefully I will get mine before CFB starts.

its very viewable...I constantly watch sports in my basement with a desk lamp on (which is to the side of the screen)...works very well and is more than slightly lit. You can still see the projected image very well...

http://lax.war3.com/MyHT/images/IMG_2523.jpg

http://lax.war3.com/MyHT/images/IMG_2534.jpg

I am trying to get my ae900u setup in linux. I have it looking pretty good but I wanted to see if anyone else had a xorg.conf that works great with this projector.

I have a PCX 5300 driving the projector with DVI to HDMI.

Thank you in advance for any pointers...

_Matt

Lax01, I hope you weren't rooting for ohio state in the game in your pic :p Btw, what screen material are the screens posted jon and lax01?

Mines a Optoma GrayWolf I (92")

Can't be beat for $200

its very viewable...I constantly watch sports in my basement with a desk lamp on (which is to the side of the screen)...works very well and is more than slightly lit. You can still see the projected image very well...

http://lax.war3.com/MyHT/images/IMG_2523.jpg

http://lax.war3.com/MyHT/images/IMG_2534.jpg

What's your screen size? Mine will be thrown from roughly 10-13' and the screen/wall area will be 100"..with decent light similar to yours in the daytime...maybe even less! :D

92" with a good 13-14 foot throw...I forget the exact distance

I think the 2nd picture has the overhead lights on...and its still somewhat viewable if there isn't any direct light on the screen...I really want to paint the back wall black but I don't think that will go over well with the folks...

tHANKS, MY LIGHTING WILL be much dimmer til someone needs the lights on to read something..

tHANKS, MY LIGHTING WILL much dimmer til someone needs the lights on to read something..

How will you be mounting your ae900 - ceiling or head-height? How far will you be seated from the screen? You can order a GrayWolf2 from Staples.com and return it to the store if you don't like it. I sit at 10', which was too close for me for the GW2 screen, but fine for the 106" High Power. Both need to be mounted as close to the hieght of your head as possible to not lose the punch and pop of the picture. If you don't have lamps on next to you, the HP with filters is a great setup, and much cheaper than the GW2. No texture and no waves at all!

I worked on tweaking my ae900 with the 81EF filter to my HP screen until the wee hours last night, and I think I finally got a nice picture with Normal Mode (much less green/yellow tinge). I need to test it with some movies and HDTV content, but it looked pretty good with what I've seen so far, including DVE. Blacks look pretty black!

Maybe a better filter setup would be a P series Cokin 81C combined with a CC10M (to dial down the Green) on the newer ae900s. I need to test my 81EF for double vision looking thru a binocolar to see if it might affect the sharpness by distorting the picuture if 2 filters are used. Cokin filters are cheap and nice glass!

http://www.cokin.co.uk/pdf/NewCOKINBrochure.pdf.

Cheers!

I will be ceiling mountin' mine. The screen will be 40" off the floor to just below the 8' ceiling(sounds crazy but I have wood trim below 40"!). :o

I'm leaning towards using the wall as a screen temporarily.

Throw should be closer to 12-13' since the seats will be @ 13'.

I will be ceiling mountin' mine. The screen will be 40" off the floor to just below the 8' ceiling(sounds crazy but I have wood trim below 40"!). :o

I'm leaning towards using the wall as a screen temporarily.

Throw should be closer to 12-13' since the seats will be @ 13'.
You might consider using a mount that is lower than the ceiling (some people have made cheap mounts out of materials from Home Depot) since the GW screens lose most of their punch when the PJ is mounted too high (over 6-7'). Those screens are not too bright to begin with, so you may be disappointed. Wall or table mounting is best.

Oh, wait, I thought you were getting a Gray Wolf2. Have you considered what screen you want? You could try the Matte White Optoma from Best Buy, which you can easily return in 30 days, so you can test out how your ambient lighting affects the picture. They are pretty cheap, and have a wide viewing cone.

Actually I was looking at a local wholesale place...They sell Da-lite's dirt cheap!

I am slightly confused as to the benefits of a matte white screen vs a high contrast gray screen. Which one is the right one to buy? I am going to buy a portable 92" 16X9 aspect ratio screen, the ones that are VERY easy to set up and take down. I have to go that route due to my family room situation. I think it will still be fine. :)

I do not know whether to go with the high contrast grey or matte white screen? Here are some room details: 16X20, hardwood floors, seating distance 7 to 10 feet. Projector will be counter mounted at 4 1/2 feet or 5 feet high, the projector is the Panny 900, the projector will be 12 feet from the screen. Screen will be at seated eye level.

The room is my family room, which has windows, but, I can control light pretty well. I would rarely (only for a big game, if the picture quality was okay) use the projector during the day, as I use have my 45" LCD in my family room, which has a GREAT picture, and handles the daylight with an EXCELLENT picture. At night, I can put the room to total darkness if desired for the big screen.

Can I get some suggestions as to which portable 92" 16:9 screen to buy? The high contrast grey or the white matte? Thank you.

CAN ANYONE POST PICS OF THEIR AE900 IN A SLIGHTLY LIT ROOM (wife doesn't believe they will be viewable with some ambient INDIRECT light in the room).....hopefully I will get mine before CFB starts.

http://www.pbase.com/cdandar/image/64190577/large.jpg

Does anyone know why the BlockBuster Card that you get in the mail from purchasing this projector is said to be worth $300 but then is only good for 40 rentals? Which is like $120-$130? Frickin rip off.

Does anyone know why the BlockBuster Card that you get in the mail from purchasing this projector is said to be worth $300 but then is only good for 40 rentals? Which is like $120-$130? Frickin rip off.
I think Blockbuster has a $2 special, which would make it worth $80 (of course the $400 rebate was why most of us jumped on the ae900 bandwagon at that time). Online it's as low as $6/month. Plus the card says it's only good for renting one video at a time, and only for one day? I thought they had long rentals now. Am I misunderstanding what they mean by "one rental per day"??? Has anyone used this card to verify their policy?

People need to stop bitching about the BB card and enjoy their projectors and their $400 rebate. It's a little overdone here and well documented so if you still feel ripped of than you didn't do your homework. Throw the card out and tell me a better deal still. I have used my card numerous times and got 3 and 4 movies at a time (they retail for about $5 each). The clerks there will not have seen this card so tell them to ring each movie up and they have to scan the card for each movie. It will let them and they will give you your movies. The card says "up to $300".

People need to stop bitching about the BB card and enjoy their projectors and their $400 rebate. It's a little overdone here and well documented so if you still feel ripped of than you didn't do your homework. Throw the card out and tell me a better deal still. I have used my card numerous times and got 3 and 4 movies at a time (they retail for about $5 each). The clerks there will not have seen this card so tell them to ring each movie up and they have to scan the card for each movie. It will let them and they will give you your movies. The card says "up to $300".

How long will they let you keep the movies?

How long will they let you keep the movies?

The rental period is the same as it would have been had you paid for the rental (2day, 7day)

The rental period is the same as it would have been had you paid for the rental (2day, 7day)
I have never been to Blockbuster, so I have no idea how that works. Is a 2 day rental equal to one rental, and a 7 day equal to two rentals? Please explain. I can't find anything like that on their web site.

No, they're just one rental. Typically, the new releases are a 2 day rental, and everything else is a one week rental. The card that comes with the rebate is good for 40 movie rentals (doesn't matter if they are 2-day or one week).

So far my experience has been that I can only rent one movie with the card at a time. It sounds like it depends on who's behind the counter as to whether they'll let you rent mulitple movies at a time on the gift card.

Oh, cool. Thanks for the info, MarkMac! I think I'll pop on down to BBuster before this darned thing expires! Gotta stop tweaking and start enjoying movies sometime!

Just wondering if something is wrong with my projector. Anything in 480P will NOT display in widescreen only fullscreen.

Just wondering if something is wrong with my projector. Anything in 480P will NOT display in widescreen only fullscreen.

Check the menu settings on your DVD player.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

No, they're just one rental. Typically, the new releases are a 2 day rental, and everything else is a one week rental. The card that comes with the rebate is good for 40 movie rentals (doesn't matter if they are 2-day or one week).

So far my experience has been that I can only rent one movie with the card at a time. It sounds like it depends on who's behind the counter as to whether they'll let you rent mulitple movies at a time on the gift card.

I had one person try to only let me rent one. I told them it had not been a problem in the past (like they will bother to check). I told them that Panasonic changed it after complaints (again like they will bother to check). I said the computer will let you do it if you scan the card again for each movie. Basically the person will do what the computer tells them to do. It's just a matter of taking advantage of the persons ignorance of which there is generally an abundance of at your typical BB :D They have never seen these cards so use it to your advantage

All,

I'm still trying to get my theater room completed, when I was replacing cables on my projector. When I put in some new ones, I fired up the Panny and after a couple of moves back and forth to verify cables were plugged into the right port, I heard a "pop", and I thought that I must have blown the friggin' lamp. Well, it went all the way back to the breaker, and after resetting the breaker and making sure things were alright with the projector, I carefully fired it back up not expecting it to display. To my surprise, it does project the blue screen, but no matter what input I send to the projector, it only gives me blue screen. I've tried both component and the composite video feeds, and all give me blue screen.

Is there a way to reset the projector itself to see if something happened with settings, etc, or am I just plain screwed?? Will a warranty cover something like this? Will projector Central take it back, or will I have to go to Panasonic? I've only got 11 hours on the projector, and that is just testing the theater room. . .actually I'm surprised I have that many hours!!

Anyone have any suggestions?? I'm desparate!

Ed

It's not the dvd player causing it as it's set right. It displays 480P material in 4:3 for dvd's, xbox 360 and xbox. The games are widescreen so I don't understand what the deal is. just by selecting 480P in the 360's menu causes the projector to switch from 16:9 to 4:3.

I am contemplating buying the Panasonic AE900U, but have a few questions I hope you guys can help me out with first:

1. Does the AE900U have a screen trigger that will raise and lower my Electric Stewart Screen? I thought the "Serial Port" on the back might work, but I'm not sure.
2. Should I wait on the rumored 1080p - AE1000U?
3. How well will the AE900U work with my dealer recommended 92 inch Stewart FireHawk G2 (gray screen)....should I consider a different screen instead?
4. Have any of you had issues with the bulbs (i.e. burning out earlier than 3000 hours, etc.)?
5. Any final recommendations (i.e. buy the Sanyo or Sony instead, etc.)

Thanks!!!

Mike

Panny AE-900 Start up problems

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am very sorry if this has been posted here before but I did all the searching I could and couldn't find it.

Lately I have been having an odd startup problem with my AE900. Every so often when I go to start it, the PJ will make the sound like it is trying to start but it wont. It will make the sound about 3 times, the fan will kick on high, and the PJ will shut off.

After it does this I will hit the power button again and it will start on this cycle ( read not on the first sound sometimes). It has been happening more and more and is beginning to worry me.

Is this a sure sign my bulb is going? Is it a sign to get the 1080P PJ I have been looking at

I think Blockbuster has a $2 special, which would make it worth $80 (of course the $400 rebate was why most of us jumped on the ae900 bandwagon at that time). Online it's as low as $6/month. Plus the card says it's only good for renting one video at a time, and only for one day? I thought they had long rentals now. Am I misunderstanding what they mean by "one rental per day"??? Has anyone used this card to verify their policy?


If you were to rent 40 video games at 7.99 each you would reach a 320 dollar value.

All,

I'm still trying to get my theater room completed, when I was replacing cables on my projector. When I put in some new ones, I fired up the Panny and after a couple of moves back and forth to verify cables were plugged into the right port, I heard a "pop", and I thought that I must have blown the friggin' lamp. Well, it went all the way back to the breaker, and after resetting the breaker and making sure things were alright with the projector, I carefully fired it back up not expecting it to display. To my surprise, it does project the blue screen, but no matter what input I send to the projector, it only gives me blue screen. I've tried both component and the composite video feeds, and all give me blue screen.

Is there a way to reset the projector itself to see if something happened with settings, etc, or am I just plain screwed?? Will a warranty cover something like this? Will projector Central take it back, or will I have to go to Panasonic? I've only got 11 hours on the projector, and that is just testing the theater room. . .actually I'm surprised I have that many hours!!

Anyone have any suggestions?? I'm desparate!

Ed

I'd remove power to the projector (unplug or turn the power toggle on the back panel to off) for a few minutes, double check all the connections, then try again. If still no-go I would call the vendor. This should certainly be under warranty.

It's not the dvd player causing it as it's set right. It displays 480P material in 4:3 for dvd's, xbox 360 and xbox. The games are widescreen so I don't understand what the deal is. just by selecting 480P in the 360's menu causes the projector to switch from 16:9 to 4:3.

Scroll through the pj's aspect ratio selections and be sure it is set to 16:9. Also, be sure your sources are set to 16:9 as well.

Ok I decided to switch my bulb because it was getting dim and I also decided it might be better to use a fresh brighter bulb durring summer time and then switch the dimmer one back for fall and winter.

I noticed the bulb with 500 hours on it had smudges all over the glass. Could this explain alot of my color uniformity across the screen? On a white screen I get red on all corners. With the new bulb it is there, but not nearly as much. Also is this stuff inside the bulb or outside? Havent tried cleaning it yet. I did notice that about the 350 hour mark I was getting lots of flickering and so I did what others suggested and went to high power mode.

I have all the components and wire ready to go. In wall speakers, Denon reciever, Pana900 projector at about 14 feet and ceiling mounted. Screen will be about 119" diagnol. Seats will be between 14 and 16 feet. I just can't decide on the screen. The speakers will not be behind the screen and there is a bit of light that seeps through the window blinds toward the back of the room. I'm thinking of getting the clarion by Draper with a m2500 or m1300 screen. I might also try Bahr white paint but the current drywall surface is not smooth (don't know how to smooth it but I'm sure it's possible). I would like some gain and don't need extream view angles. I also read a nice review of the Elunevision matte white which is much cheaper than Draper. Any suggestions? I would greatly appreciate the help.

kchap

With regard to the fan noise issue, I experienced the same problem with a "MAY 2006" unit. Noise came and went and had that typical bad fan bearing sound (not sure if these are bearing or bearing-less). Had no choice but return the unit and will try a different dealer altogether.

Although I haven't read the entire thread, nor the 'tweak' thread, but it seams to me (after watching the tech take it apart) that one could theoretically replace the stock fan with an HQ aftermarket.

Anyone try replacing the fan in their AE900?

I have all the components and wire ready to go. In wall speakers, Denon reciever, Pana900 projector at about 14 feet and ceiling mounted. Screen will be about 119" diagnol. Seats will be between 14 and 16 feet. I just can't decide on the screen. The speakers will not be behind the screen and there is a bit of light that seeps through the window blinds toward the back of the room. I'm thinking of getting the clarion by Draper with a m2500 or m1300 screen. I might also try Bahr white paint but the current drywall surface is not smooth (don't know how to smooth it but I'm sure it's possible). I would like some gain and don't need extream view angles. I also read a nice review of the Elunevision matte white which is much cheaper than Draper. Any suggestions? I would greatly appreciate the help.

kchap

Check out the Carada Brilliant white screen. I just bought one and I LOVE it. Send them an email. Rex Biddle, one of the sales guys, owns a Panny 900 so he knows it very well.

Elio

If you were to rent 40 video games at 7.99 each you would reach a 320 dollar value.
You can only rent movies! It says so on the card - no games!

Ok I decided to switch my bulb because it was getting dim and I also decided it might be better to use a fresh brighter bulb durring summer time and then switch the dimmer one back for fall and winter.

I noticed the bulb with 500 hours on it had smudges all over the glass. Could this explain alot of my color uniformity across the screen? On a white screen I get red on all corners. With the new bulb it is there, but not nearly as much. Also is this stuff inside the bulb or outside? Havent tried cleaning it yet. I did notice that about the 350 hour mark I was getting lots of flickering and so I did what others suggested and went to high power mode.

I had a PANASONIC PTL-500U with 500+ hours, and, when I took the lamp out to clean it, noticed that there were little reflecting particles loosed inside the lamp. This particles were part of the reflecting cup. Is this your problem?
The red (purple) color on the edges, in my case were caused by dust on the LCDs. Sorry my english. Fernando

You can only rent movies! It says so on the card - no games!

The top of my card reads:
"Present this BLOCKBUSTER Rental Card for forty (40) FREE movie or game rentals at any participating BLOCKBUSTER store."

So I'm not sure which card you have but mine says you are incorrect.

I had a PANASONIC PTL-500U with 500+ hours, and, when I took the lamp out to clean it, noticed that there were little reflecting particles loosed inside the lamp. This particles were part of the reflecting cup. Is this your problem?
The red (purple) color on the edges, in my case were caused by dust on the LCDs. Sorry my english. Fernando


Sounds the same to me. ALso my lcd engine only has 200 hours on it. Smoke free room and very little to no dust at all. Might need another light engine swap.

I have all the components and wire ready to go. In wall speakers, Denon reciever, Pana900 projector at about 14 feet and ceiling mounted. Screen will be about 119" diagnol. Seats will be between 14 and 16 feet. I just can't decide on the screen. The speakers will not be behind the screen and there is a bit of light that seeps through the window blinds toward the back of the room. I'm thinking of getting the clarion by Draper with a m2500 or m1300 screen. I might also try Bahr white paint but the current drywall surface is not smooth (don't know how to smooth it but I'm sure it's possible). I would like some gain and don't need extream view angles. I also read a nice review of the Elunevision matte white which is much cheaper than Draper. Any suggestions? I would greatly appreciate the help.

kchap

Which in-walls did u go with?

Got my rebate check and Blockbuster rental card today in the mail.

And I also started noticing some flashing issues while using LAMP MODE: LOW (which I have used since day 1)

Switched it over to LAMP MODE: HIGH and the flashing issues are gone.

Does this meen my bulb is about to go? I only have ~580 hrs on the original bulb.

I cleaned my filter yesterday for the 2nd time since I have had it (4 months) and it was really dirty. I live in the CA desert - so I guess that is why. i'll be cleaning more often now for sure...but, it did not help my flashing issue....

Guess the $400 rebate check came at a good time? (new bulb)? :(