Panny AE900 Official Thread- Please post here! [Text View] - Page 3

stephenvv

10-14-05, 03:34 AM

So to be clear since we are discussing stretch modes... have any owners confirmed the the AE900 cannot stretch 720p or 1080i content vertically for a CH setup? In other words, it can't stretch a 2.35:1 movie to fit a 16x9 screen, right?

/rant on

Why would you want to do such a thing (also directed at the poster who wants to stretch 4:3 footage)? I'm a filmmaker and always horrified by people altering aspect ratios or watching pan and scan. You either horriblely distort the images or miss 40% of more of what was shot.

I can understand if you bought an el cheapo TV or whatever, but spending thousands on HT and the degrading the image. seems like a no-no HT setting. While agonize over minor or near invisible artifacts and then totally destroy PQ by scaling or stretching or cropping?

If it really bothers you, get a screen with variable aspect ratios, but for the love of all that is good and decent, don't stretch, crop, scale or otherwise abuse the image the artists often labor years to create :eek:

rant off/

LMJohnson

10-14-05, 03:50 AM

/rant on

If it really bothers you, get a screen with variable aspect ratios, but for the love of all that is good and decent, don't stretch, crop, scale or otherwise abuse the image the artists often labor years to create :eek:

rant off/

I think you missed something there - they want the stretch the image vertically to fill the entire panel and then add an anamorphic lens/prism to correct the aspect ratio again. This results in a constant height image and uses the maximum light output and resolution of the projector.

Liam

rotelryu

10-14-05, 03:55 AM

but for the love of all that is good and decent, don't stretch, crop, scale or otherwise abuse the image the artists often labor years to create

I agree on that. However, when reading the different posts on this forum, I am under the impression that a CH setup is all about trying to achieve the most truthful image at the most favorable image size. The stretched or cropped modes are useful when used with a panamorph lens (I doubt that many people would want to use these modes without it. If so: I'll rant along with you :D )

Intellivision

10-14-05, 05:27 AM

How does the AE900 compare with the Infocus 4805? Obviously the AE900 has the advantage when it comes to pure resolution, but what about colors, "blacks", contrast, etc?

I ask only because I've seen the 4805 in action, but won't be able to see the AE900 prior to purchase... :(

Cine4Home

10-14-05, 07:10 AM

so does this mean you are seeing significant VB with your unit?

Yes, it does have quite strong VB..
The service menu has now a VB-Adjustment Menu, but it is not very effective. Neither with this VB Menu nor with the flicker adjust the VB could be reduced.

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

onastov

10-14-05, 07:14 AM

Mini review of Panasonic PT-AE900:

1. Equipment

1.1. Hardware

AMD 64 3500+ 1GB RAM.
300GB hard drive.
Dvico Fusion Gold 3 HDTV tuner card.
Leadtek Geforce 6600gt graphics card (with DxVA).
Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 4.1 speakers.

1.2. Software

Windows XP Pro OS
FusionHDTV + Zulu HDTV DxVA video decoder
Windows Media Player + Nvidia Mpeg2 decoder

1.3. Source material

DVDs.
Adelphia broadcast cable ($12/month), includes 5 HDTV channels: ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and PBS. (Please do not let your cable company rip you off by telling you that you need an HDTV box, and subscription to digital cable. Cable companies have to include the basic on-the-air HDTV channels in their broadcast cable package. You will need an HDTV tuner.)

The FusionHDTV application includes a recording scheduler which enables me to record digital / HDTV shows on the hard drive in the .tp (transport stream) format. In other words I am recording the original unchanged HDTV Mpeg2 stream (9GB / hour for 1080p HDTV).

1.4. Screen

Da-lite versatol matte white 1.0 screen 100" 4:3, truncated to 16:9 with effective diagonal of about 90".

The AE900 projector is about 14 feet from the screen. Viewing distance is 12 feet. Projected image is about 80" diagonal. The PC IN input is being used (RGB).

2. AE900 performance

My previous projector was Panasonic PT-L720U, which was a 1024x768 LCD 2200 lumens projector. I was operating it in low lamp power mode. When displaying 16:9 HDTV material, the effective 16:9 resolution was thus 1024x576.

The AE900 is operating in wide720 mode, with the graphics card resolution set to 1280x720 for 1:1 pixel mapping and maximum (AA) picture quality. It was very important to do "auto setup" in the "Position" menu in order to make sure there is no cropping of the picture, and to ensure the projector and the RGB signal are in perfect sync.

The only other deviations from the default settings are choosing low lamp power and "natural" picture mode (I like to leave all picture tweaks to the software).

The first source material was the windows desktop (I surf the internet during commercials). Even though AE900 is rated 1100 lumens, it seems a bit brighter than my old L720U projector, with both at low lamp power mode (the lamp on L720 had 600 hrs). I could see no screen door effect whatsoever even from up close, compared to the obvious SD on L720U. The smooth screen technology seems to be a real win, with the desktop and text being just as sharp as on L720U. The quick workings of the dynamic iris were of course quite noticeable as I was opening and closing windows.

Next I watched parts of the "Gladiator" and "Empire Strikes Back" DVDs with Windows Media Player. The Nvidia decoder color settings are custom set to my own "movie theater" color mode. Most noticeable was the vastly improved contrast over the L720U and deeper blacks. I saw no improvement in sharpness though which is to be expected from DVD (480p) material. In other words DVDs still appear "soft" compared to HDTV.

For HDTV, no tweaks are applied to the picture from the FusionHDTV application. I watched the entire recorded episode of "Desperate Housewives" which is 720p HDTV, as well as "The Apprentice" which is 480p. I also watched parts of David Letterman and Jay Leno live, which are broadcast in 1080p HDTV. You can not see what this projector can do until you watch some HDTV material with it. "Housewives" (shot with film, then transfered in 720p) burst with intense color, sharpness, contrast, all in all much much better than what I was getting with L720U. Similar dramatic improvement was noticed for Letterman and Leno, shot with HDTV 1080p video cameras. "The Apprentice", even though clearly shot with analog cameras and then transmitted 480p was also pretty good, especially the contrast and vivid colors.

No vertical banding was seen.

The lens shift and 2x zoom are fantastic features that enable much greater freedom in positioning this projector. The fan noise is basically non-existent compared to the L720U.

All in all I am quite pleased with my AE900. :)

rwestley

10-14-05, 08:10 AM

Ekkehart do you think there might be a problem with your sample since so many others have reported little or no VB. Would it be possible to get another sample to test and compare?

madpoet

10-14-05, 08:48 AM

/rant on

Why would you want to do such a thing (also directed at the poster who wants to stretch 4:3 footage)? I'm a filmmaker and always horrified by people altering aspect ratios or watching pan and scan. You either horriblely distort the images or miss 40% of more of what was shot.

I can understand if you bought an el cheapo TV or whatever, but spending thousands on HT and the degrading the image. seems like a no-no HT setting. While agonize over minor or near invisible artifacts and then totally destroy PQ by scaling or stretching or cropping?

If it really bothers you, get a screen with variable aspect ratios, but for the love of all that is good and decent, don't stretch, crop, scale or otherwise abuse the image the artists often labor years to create :eek:

rant off/

Ok... I'll be a nice guy here. First, I'd strongly suggest you read the Constant Height forum. Second, I'd suggest you understand what I'm asking before you rant at me. And third, I have an anamorphic lens setup. So once you understand exactly what I'm talking about, feel free to come back and contribute appropriately.

Thanks,
MP

cpc

10-14-05, 09:40 AM

"FPN is not a motion artifact "

I think that the confusion is because the FPN is most easily noticed with panning; objects in the image move, but the pixel pattern doesn't.

I agree 100%. I just wanted to point out that FPN is not related to the "dithering" of DLP's.

When I first saw the FPN I was disappointed, and I can see it from time to time, but for movies, its really not a huge concern for me. I'm more concerned with vertical banding and colour uniformity.

MikeSRC

10-14-05, 10:43 AM

Yes, it does have quite strong VB..
The service menu has now a VB-Adjustment Menu, but it is not very effective. Neither with this VB Menu nor with the flicker adjust the VB could be reduced.

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Ekkehart, I don't see a VB-adjustment menu in the U.S. version's service menu (of course, I also don't see any VB). I know that all of this will be in your review, but can you give us a little more info on the VB menu location and also a test pattern or DVD scene where you notice VB the most? Thanks.

KuroNeko

10-14-05, 10:51 AM

Bad news if the VB menu setting doesn't help.

Ekkehart, are you in touch with Panasonic or did you get your 900 from a dealer?

In either case, as I predicted, some 900's will have a VB issue, others not. So could you please ask Panasonic or the dealer what Panasonic's warranty/service in Europe/Germany is regarding VB? Will people who have VB be able to get a new one like in the USA or is it the same lottery as with the 700?

Neko

tvted

10-14-05, 11:45 AM

I agree 100%. I just wanted to point out that FPN is not related to the "dithering" of DLP's.

When I first saw the FPN I was disappointed, and I can see it from time to time, but for movies, its really not a huge concern for me. I'm more concerned with vertical banding and colour uniformity.

That was from one of my comments cpc - so I'll take the heat. :o

I find this interesting, in that I find it much easier to see FPN on a grey to white field - fortunately my 700 doesn't have many panel errors - unless you want to count some dust or polarizer based errors and an itty bitty bit of FPN. None of this is apparent in normal use.

O/T - VB is related to the way the panel is addressed, FPN is similar but because of its amorphous nature might it exit because of transmissibilty errors at the pixel level?

Google no help.

ted

stephenvv

10-14-05, 12:26 PM

Ok... I'll be a nice guy here. First, I'd strongly suggest you read the Constant Height forum. Second, I'd suggest you understand what I'm asking before you rant at me. And third, I have an anamorphic lens setup. So once you understand exactly what I'm talking about, feel free to come back and contribute appropriately.

Thanks,
MP

I apologize for missing the "CH" in your post - I was responding to several posts here and elsewhere about stretching/cropping the image and just using your post to comment - my bad. That being said, I'm not nuts about CH because of the vertical stretch and then anamorphic fix. I've worked the reverse (shooting with anamorphic lenses using vertical stretch algorithms in post and there is a measurable resolution loss, light loss from adding a second lens and slight optical distortion resulting in softer focus. Of course, I was using a $1000 anamorphic (interesting enough from Panasonic as I shoot with a DVX100a camera), so more expensive glass may help.

I see from the CH forum that using an anamorphic allows you to get all the pixels which would I assume help brightness and maybe that compensates for scaler, lens and/or stretch loss - in this case, would depend on how good the stretch in the Panny is.

However, I did not see any scientific lumens and rez chart tests in the forum comparing various setups and would only consider it if someone has done those.

Are there detailed tests out there?

rwestley

10-14-05, 01:39 PM

gdemery

10-14-05, 02:13 PM

Do any of you guys know where I can purchase the ae-900 in VA/DC area?

I know of a dealer in Beltsville, but I'm looking for VA.

Thanks

G

MikeSRC

10-14-05, 02:52 PM

I just received an email from Projector Central asking when their review will be published on the AE900 and Z4. Their response was that it will be up later today hopefully by noon pacific time. www.projectorcentral.com

Here it is, for the 900 anyway:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae900.htm

No VB in any of the three units he saw. I've seen four myself without VB, so hopefully it's a rarity.

donyoop

10-14-05, 03:06 PM

Here it is, for the 900 anyway:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae900.htm

No VB in any of the three units he saw. I've seen four myself without VB, so hopefully it's a rarity.

The lens shift description in the projector central review seems to be overly generous.

Don

MikeSRC

10-14-05, 03:14 PM

I think he meant 1.33.

I just found the review by digging around BTW. It's not officially linked or released yet.

Roo5676

10-14-05, 03:23 PM

I just found the review by digging around BTW. It's not officially linked or released yet.

Yeah, I noticed that. Nice work ;)

DanLW

10-14-05, 03:42 PM

<insert Projector Central review here>

Wow.

Although I will have plenty of time to see the reviews on the other projectors in the low price range, looks like a bigger win than the AE700. Interesting that they actually compared THREE AE900s to ensure there was no Vertical Banding across a larger sampling of projectors.

Looks like the profits of TI is going to suffer.

I'll be at the Colorado Springs event where this projector, along with others, will be shown. I'll finally get a chance to see it myself!

They stated that at a 70" screen size the projector puts out an image which rivals the more expensive plasma screens in saturation and contrast! I wonder if that will remain true after the 150 hour bulb fart...

MikeSRC

10-14-05, 03:49 PM

The Z4 and comparison reviews are up now too. Sounds like each have strengths that will appeal to different needs.

scotty144

10-14-05, 03:56 PM

Wow, they gave a great review of the Z4.

Robert2879

10-14-05, 04:03 PM

I'm glad I waited for the review. The AE900 is definitely the right one for me. It sounds like the Z4 could be better in certain environments and the AE900 better in others so it's a great situation for the consumers in this case.

jsm88

10-14-05, 04:03 PM

Wow, they gave a great review of the Z4.

yeah, expect they trash its' deinterlacer and then say nothing about how it handles 1080i - not helpful.

nilsp

10-14-05, 04:08 PM

Good review. I guess I need to find a dealer that will swap VB units, not only dead pixel ones... just to make sure.

Now if Evan could review the Epson 800, I'd be in happyland!

NilsP

acegamer

10-14-05, 04:31 PM

Looks like I'll be keeping my Z4 preorder. Both machines sound great but I think that the Z4 will work better for me. Thankfully I don't have any 480i sources hooked up in my theater room so the deinterlacing problem won't matter. The X360 should look great on either of these!

DanLW

10-14-05, 04:32 PM

After reading the shootout, it looks like the 900 is the one for me. I want to play games on this, and that means if I want to really get immersed, I'll want to be closer than 1.3X screen width. No screen door on teh 900 unless you're at .1X screen width? Sign me up for that!

Oriphus

10-14-05, 05:01 PM

Cant believe it....release date for my panasonic has been put back until November 4th 05. Trying to find someone in the Uk who has it in stock....

rwestley

10-14-05, 05:04 PM

I want to thank Evan of Projector Central for two interesting excellent reviews. It seems that each has some advantages and disadvantages. I like the sharpness of the Z4 but I have a small dedicated room for H.T. use and the AE900 with no SD is probably the choice for me.

The best part is that they both seem like great machines. We should all be winners.

I just emaled Evan wondering why neither was listed as "Highly Recommended." I am wondering if it was just an omission or if is something else.

Oriphus

10-14-05, 05:42 PM

Oh...just going a tad off topic. Very very impressed with Da-Lite, not because of their screen material, wish im sure is excellent, but more so with the service they provide. Im based in Belfast, Ireland and i requested large screen samples from Draper (m1300 + Hi Def Grey), Da-Lite (HCCV, CV and Da-Mat), Carada (their 3 equivalents) and Stewarts (Studiotek 130 and Firehawk). Only Stewarts never got back to, which i was very disappointed about.

Draper sent me one screen sample, not the 2 requested, and it measure 4"x4" and came in a small envelope with a large piece of paper along the top stapled into it and a business card stapled on it coverig the rest of the material. Not entirely sure what the point of sending me that, since it is completely useless to me. However, upon mentioning this to the Draper representitive in the UK (Brian), he has since asked for two 2ftx2ft samples to sent out asap.

Da-Lite, i am extremely impressed with. In fact, due to the level of service i have recieved so far, im now very sure i will probably get a Da-Lite HCCV screen. Once i contacted them, I asked for 1ftx1ft material. They sent me 2ftx2ft in all three materials, and it was packed so good I was amazed. The amount of effort that went into it. Came in a very sturdy cardboard long box. They overnighted it to me on International priority DHL delivery from the USA to Belfast. So, they spent considerable time and effort sending it.

Still awaiting Carada's samples, which should hopefully coming soon.

On the screen qualities, i believe the Draper is off a higher quality, solely based on the thickness of the screen and the feel to it. The Da-Lite's are more flimsy, but i guess the Draper has to be thicker due to the tensioning...?

Just one concern about the Da-Lite and that is that all 3 of the samples showed evidence of very faint lines across them. Not sure if it is packaging related, but id be a tad concerned about it on a screen that id purchased. Has anyone noticed this on any of their Da-Lite screens? Hopefully,its just because its a sample and doesnt reflect the finished article.

Just my thoughts...

Chris

darinp2

10-14-05, 05:43 PM

The Z4 and comparison reviews are up now too. Sounds like each have strengths that will appeal to different needs.
That's true, but I think we should keep in mind that he is mostly aiming at a less technical audience than many of the people here. I thought he was pretty generous with the SDE comments as it sounded like he did the same thing that many people do and that is to do a quick test where they move back until they barely don't see the SDE and state that it won't be seen beyond that. However, I think when these people sit down at that spot they are likely to find material where they do see the SDE from there, even if they didn't with the material they used for the test. If they used the most difficult material for the test this might not be the case, but most people don't do that.

In other words, I think at 1.3x and 1.5x a lot more people here would see SDE on the Z4 than the review would indicate. Especially if you count being aware of the SDE even if a person isn't able to focus on one line of it. In my experience there is a distance where being able to focus right on it goes away, but there is still an awareness of it overall, and then a little further distance where things actually smooth out and it is gone. It is true that I haven't sat down with a Z4 and don't recall seeing one at CEDIA, but based on all my experiences I will be pretty surprised if many people don't complain about SDE beyond his numbers.

--Darin

MikeSRC

10-14-05, 06:19 PM

Yeah, there's no doubt the reviews on PC and projectorreviews are aimed at a less technical audience, but that's mainly who buys these projectors (at least until they come here ;) ). I haven't seen a Z4 anywhere yet either, but if it's like the Epson 550, SDE is only slightly more than the AE900.

rwestley

10-14-05, 06:42 PM

I do think that projector central and projector reviews do a service for the average buyer. For many of us their reviews are a starting point. Cine4home gives a much more technical review but I doubt if the average consumer would understand it. I do give Evan credit for pointing out the differences in the two projectors and the reasons why one or the other would be better in different situations. I know that for me because of the size of the room and the seating distance SDE would be a big problem. I would love to have the sharper image of the Z4 but the other weaknesses make the Panasonic the one for me.

Ticotva

10-14-05, 07:17 PM

Cant believe it....release date for my panasonic has been put back until November 4th 05. Trying to find someone in the Uk who has it in stock....

Yeah, their plasmas are on back order too! This seems to be pattern with Panasonic
and their popular items.

Can wait to do a shoot out here in santa monica with the AE900

Tico
TVA
tico@tvauthority.com

Xander

10-14-05, 07:22 PM

PC Review: ...Yet we were puzzled by the subtle softness, and were left wishing it were a bit sharper... This is disappointing to me. When I upgraded from a Sony HS10 to the Panasonic AE500 this softness was very apparent. Although bothering my quite a bit at first, I've become used to this softness over time, but I'm still longing for that sharp image that the HS10 provided back then. I would have hoped that the softness would have disappeared 2 generations later... I’m not so sure about upgrading to the AE900 now.

Rhys

10-14-05, 07:37 PM

Rieper

10-14-05, 07:47 PM

Could someone who owns the 900 (or 700) tell me how the lens shift joystick moves? Is it like a video game controller thumb stick that moves around in any direction? Or does it only move vertically or horizontally? And is it analog in that the farther from center you move it the faster the lens shift moves? Would it be easy to move the image up exactly 3 inches or would it take 5 minutes of back and forth to get the image positioned where you want it?

Thanks!

I think someone already posted their findings from CEDIA which indicate the newer AE900 lens shift stick would be easier moving and less jerky when adjusting.

Personally speaking (as a current AE700 owner), I find the lens shift stick a little to loose to adjust. I hope the newer stick on the AE900 is a little more stiff in movement.

The good thing is, once you find your sweet spot all you do is tighten the stick and never look back.

madpoet

10-14-05, 08:23 PM

However, I did not see any scientific lumens and rez chart tests in the forum comparing various setups and would only consider it if someone has done those.

Are there detailed tests out there?

Stephen, if you want to take the discussion offline I'm happy to. There have been reviews of the Panamorph series in the past, as well as other anamorphic lenses. I'm not sure why you think there would be quality loss, and the increase in brightness is pretty evident ;)

Rhys

10-14-05, 08:53 PM

The good thing is, once you find your sweet spot all you do is tighten the stick and never look back.

That's EXACTLY what I DON"T want. I want to use the zoom and lens shift to creat a constant height setup. So I'd need to adjust the vertical shift all the time. Is it easy to ONLY adjust the vertical or does the slightest movement left or right move it horizontally?

Pultzar

10-14-05, 09:14 PM

I use the AE900 in a CH setup. Although I don't have to make adjustments once things are correct (I'm using a prismasonic lens), I have played around with the lens shift.

The mechanism is a lot better than the one on the AE700. I am able to position the image precisely without too much effort. The AE700 was impossible in that you had to keep going back and forth until you happened to land on the right spot. Bad!

You cannot easily make a .5" adjustment, but you should be able to get within an inch of your destination I think.

madcutter

10-14-05, 09:35 PM

If you wanted to project a 100" image on a Z4, you could place it anywhere from 9.3 to 20 feet away from the screen.

Could someone tell me what the corresponding distances on the 900 would be?

m-fine416

10-14-05, 11:05 PM

10 to 20 is what I have read

ckong

10-14-05, 11:11 PM

I'm a little confused. My local Epson rep is saying that their latest TW600 pj is based on 3LCD D5 panel, and that Sanyo Z4 and Pansonic AE900 is still based on the older D4 panel. According to him, the only other upcoming pj with D5 panel is Sony's HS60. Anything official from Sanyo or Panasonic to the contrary?

ac388

10-15-05, 12:12 AM

Xander

10-15-05, 12:23 AM

The rep seems to be confused. The Z4 and AE900 both use the new D5 panels. Sony use their own panels altogether.

Dogllama

10-15-05, 01:45 AM

Just got my 900. It looks fantastic.

Was wondering if anybody else was having a problem getting higher than a 480p signal.

I'm using an Oppo OPDV971H DVD player via DVI->HDMI and no matter what I try, I can't go above 480p. Any ideas?

almostgoth

10-15-05, 06:41 AM

Just one concern about the Da-Lite and that is that all 3 of the samples showed evidence of very faint lines across them. Not sure if it is packaging related, but id be a tad concerned about it on a screen that id purchased. Has anyone noticed this on any of their Da-Lite screens? Hopefully,its just because its a sample and doesnt reflect the finished article.

Just my thoughts...

Chris

I'm using Da-Lite HCCV over stretcher bars. I don't notice any faint lines at all, although you do get "sparkles" which if I'm not mistaken are present on almost any grey/silver screen.

Oriphus

10-15-05, 08:05 AM

Thats good to know that. The horizontal lines across the screens, Da-Mat, HCCV and CV must be some sort of packaging problem then on these samples, or they have sent some lesser quality stuff for the samples, just to give me an idea of the viewing image?

What do you mean by stretcher bars?

rboster

10-15-05, 08:46 AM

although you do get "sparkles" which if I'm not mistaken are present on almost any grey/silver screen.

In my experience, I have used high contrast screens with both Sanyo-PLV60 and Yamaha LPX-510 proj. and have never seen "sparkles." I have seen sparkles, so I know what they look like....but that was assoicated with a friend using a poor quality cable. Once we switched out the cable, the sparkles went away.

But, as you can read a couple of examples below of members that have experienced sparkles with HCCV at certain angles during rare occurances.

Ron

Herb

10-15-05, 08:51 AM

Hey Dogllama,

To change the output of your Oppo:

When you have it turned on and stopped, press the DVI button on the lower left corner of the remote. It will change and the AE900 will flash blue on the screen and then you'll see the Oppo logo and the output mode in the top left corner of the screen. Hit the DVI button again to go to the next mode.

The player does have to be stopped. It cannot change output modes while playing a disc.

Herb

rwestley

10-15-05, 10:12 AM

I believe Robster is correct that Sparkles come from poor transmission of a digital signal through a DVI or HDMI cable. I had the problem once at 720p & 1080i with a DVI cable that was 30'. I replaced the cable and the problem was resolved. I have never heard of sparkles coming from a screen.

Dennis Henderson

10-15-05, 11:09 AM

On the quick topic of lens shift on the AE900...

When you use the lens shift to precisely position your picture, does this cause the picture to distort in a way that would required keystone correction or does it manage to preserve the squareness of the image? I want to avoid digital keystone correction at all costs.

This will have weight on my decision to hang it from the ceiling or put it on a shelf.

Thanks

Dennis

MikeSRC

10-15-05, 11:23 AM

It retains the squareness of the image. To me, it's better than keystoning, even at the extremes.

This will have weight on my decision to hang it from the ceiling or put it on a shelf.

Since it starts out in the center of the image, it requires the same amount of vertical shift whether it's shelf or ceiling mounted.

donyoop

10-15-05, 12:34 PM

I'm using Da-Lite HCCV over stretcher bars. I don't notice any faint lines at all, although you do get "sparkles" which if I'm not mistaken are present on almost any grey/silver screen.

I concur with almostgoth. Certain screens can have the reflections which look like sparkles and the HCCV is one of them. You have to observe the reflected sparkle at just the right angle. If you move slightly, the screen sparkle goes away. This is different from the infamous too long DVI cable sparkles.

Don

rlindo

10-15-05, 12:50 PM

No probs with my HCCV screen with faint lines. Every few months I will catch the screen at an angle to see a sparklie/reflection off a pice in the screen material but as Don said, if you move just a teense the sparkle goes away.

I'd say I have seen this happen under 10 times in the 3 years I have owned the screen.

sailor06

10-15-05, 03:22 PM

In other words, I think at 1.3x and 1.5x a lot more people here would see SDE on the Z4 than the review would indicate. Especially if you count being aware of the SDE even if a person isn't able to focus on one line of it. In my experience there is a distance where being able to focus right on it goes away, but there is still an awareness of it overall, and then a little further distance where things actually smooth out and it is gone. It is true that I haven't sat down with a Z4 and don't recall seeing one at CEDIA, but based on all my experiences I will be pretty surprised if many people don't complain about SDE beyond his numbers.

--Darin

I definitely disagree. A wise person once said, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." For a lot of people who are in the market for a projector in the $2K - $2.5K range, Evan Powell's review is worth more than words can say. Where else can you get a honest review on competing products? If there is let me know. You can read this site for hours and come away more confused than when you started. What makes since about this statement , "but there is still an awareness of it overall, and then a little further distance where things actually smooth out and it is gone?" Is that not what Mr. Powell stated in his review?

inky blacks

10-15-05, 03:59 PM

romanesq

10-15-05, 05:33 PM

tony123

10-15-05, 05:40 PM

sounded to me that they prefer the Z4.

inky blacks

10-15-05, 05:54 PM

Which has the longer lasting bulb?

PS I just noticed that Projector Central has given both the Sanyo and the Panasonic 4 1/2 stars for "performance." The Optoma H79 still has 5 stars.

IB

HoustonHoyaFan

10-15-05, 07:52 PM

Evan Powell's review is worth more than words can say. Where else can you get a honest review on competing products? If there is let me know.
Have you tried widescreenreview.com or guidetohometheater.com. :)

WSR and SGHT are two of the most respected HT journals!

Dogllama

10-15-05, 07:52 PM

It's true, I think Projector Central did prefer the Z4 slightly more, but they also said that the AE900's color was way better than the Z4.

I tweaked my settings today and my 900 looks brilliant. For me color is a bit more important than sharpness. Actually my 900 looks plenty sharp to me, but I don't have another PJ to do a side by side comparison too either.

Robert Clark

10-15-05, 08:09 PM

I'd be curious to see someone's comparison between the sharpness of an AE500 and a AE900 as the smoothscreen on the AE500 is plenty sharp to me...

almostgoth

10-15-05, 08:42 PM

In my experience, I have used high contrast screens with both Sanyo-PLV60 and Yamaha LPX-510 proj. and have never seen "sparkles." I have seen sparkles, so I know what they look like....but that was assoicated with a friend using a poor quality cable. Once we switched out the cable, the sparkles went away.

But, as you can read a couple of examples below of members that have experienced sparkles with HCCV at certain angles during rare occurances.

Ron

My sources are hooked up via analog component and vga. These are not the sparkles associated with hdmi issues. They are hard to see, and for the most part I probably never would have noticed them had I not read a post complaining about the sparkles in HCCV :)

Oriphus:
Stretcher bars are what painters use to stretch their canvass on, as I have a diy screen (which I'm still in the process of completing. Check out my gallery for pix, also check out the diy screen forum for more info on them.

Ximori

10-15-05, 08:51 PM

After reading both articles, it does appear that the Z4 got a few more pluses, both practical and in the comparison to more expensive DLPs. That's my take.

Both machines are using the new Epson panels as I understand it.

i agree.

folks, isn’t it easier to deal with the Z4’s drawbacks by adding an IMX lens to counter sde while retaining sharpness and also adding some color filter to compensate for color accuracy?

With the AE900, extensive calibration to improve contrast and get better depth and 3D looking images seems futile

however, i like the flexibility of the AE900 to go even larger than 120" so hopefully, there is a screen that can play a major factor in providing the 3d look

thaxx

10-15-05, 08:55 PM

I don't agree.
I have a IMX lens, and it has always softened the image no matter how I have adjusted it

Ximori

10-15-05, 09:05 PM

I don't agree.
I have a IMX lens, and it has always softened the image no matter how I have adjusted it

i didn't know that. which pj did you use it for? so you do you think that defocusing the image is good enough then?

dusk

10-15-05, 09:25 PM

I think the key is in the depth of the image which was said to be fantastic by Ekkehart/Cine4home and also rang out in the PC review. I take it that the AE900 just didn't quite hit on that as well as the Z4. Dark scenes in sci-fi movies are important to me though. So I'm hoping Ekkehart can come up with some great solutions in his tweak article soon. I think the AE900 though has some seriously good plusses on its side, no sde, highspeed iris, spot on color. You can't lose. Choose based on what features you want most. Or wait for the HS61 which is going to have unbelievable depth but also its own set of problems.

thaxx

10-15-05, 09:33 PM

i didn't know that. which pj did you use it for? so you do you think that defocusing the image is good enough then?

I have tried it on my second projector, which was a Panny 711-XU (VGA). defocusing was IMO, just as good as the lens. But from what I have experienced, it does matter which way you turn the focus ring to get the best result.

rwestley

10-15-05, 10:27 PM

The fact is that both the AE900 & A4 are fine projectors. Neither one is perfect but for the price they are both great values. I believe that your choice should be based on your specific needs. If your room is small I would go with the Panasonic because it has no SDE. If you need a little extra brightness you might want to go with the Z4. These are just two examples of the differences in each. I do believe that which ever one you choose you will be getting a fine projector. You could always wait for the Sony 61 or the new Epson or you could put off the decision until next year when new DLP or 1080p LCD projectors will come out. There will always be something new and better. I would make a choice and start enjoying front projection on a large screen.

rlindo

10-15-05, 10:45 PM

I am a bit bewildered by the Projector Central review of the new Panasonic and the Sanyo Z4. Which one did they like better? Why don't they try to measure contrast ratio?

They have not listed either yet on their highly recommended projector list. When they do they will assign them stars for picture quality. Which will get more stars?

They mention the Sanyo as having newer LCD panels. Is it proven that both Sanyo and Panasonic are using the latest LCD chips?

IB

It is impossible for Evan to say one pj is better than another in his comparos that I have read.

As for the guy who said the reviews are invaluable...

I personally find PCs reviews borderline useless (they come off as company product sheets) but to each their own.

Ximori

10-15-05, 11:07 PM

I have tried it on my second projector, which was a Panny 711-XU (VGA). defocusing was IMO, just as good as the lens. But from what I have experienced, it does matter which way you turn the focus ring to get the best result.

I wonder which is softer - the Panny or a Z4 with IMX lens?

thaxx

10-15-05, 11:22 PM

I wonder which is softer - the Panny or a Z4 with IMX lens?
I would definitely say the Z4 would be softer.
I have a Panny 500, which also has the "Smooth Screen" And the picture is plenty Sharp to my eyes.

noah katz

10-15-05, 11:55 PM

"...they also said that the AE900's color was way better than the Z4."

I don't see how you came away with that impression.

The way I remember it, he said the Z4's red was slightly orangish, but that only the very finicky would notice it.

Sankar

10-16-05, 02:06 AM

I got the AE900u up and running today. Coming from a 65" crt RPTV, the big picture (120") is nice! :)
Colors are nice and there is NO sde to speak of ... nada, zippo.

One thing that bothers me is the convergence ... or rather the lack of a perfect convergence. In white writing, the red pixels are slightly above and the green are below. It shows up in the credits and is also very clearly visible in the PJ's menu items if you walk up to the screen and look. In my RPTV I remember that improper convergence would lead to a softer picture ... I wonder if this is true here as well.

Those who have the AE900: Do you see the same issue with yours as well? Is this a common issue, or should I be asking for a replacement?

rwestley

10-16-05, 06:20 AM

I would contact your dealer immediately and ask for a replacement. There does seem to be a problem. You should not see any convergency problem on white letters.

Oriphus

10-16-05, 07:05 AM

My take on it was that the Panny did have a better colour reproduction, a better Dynamic Iris, and that the Sanyo was the winner in the sharpness, brightness and contrast ratio department, especially in the darker scenes.

Both look great, but im a Panasonic man through and through, and although the 3 year manufacturer warranty sounds great, id prob be a tad concerned going to Sanyo route having never owned a Sanyo projector before.

The Sanyo certainly sounds like a good machine, especially the manual LCD chip cleaning function - very good addition...

Chris

Li On

10-16-05, 08:23 AM

Hi,

Finally saw the AE900 in CKL's setup. Great color, bright picture, excellent contrast in both dim and bright scenes, very little VB. Remember to reduce Sharpness to min (-7) to get the perfect 1280x720 1:1 mapping from HTPC over HDMI.

But it has the SAME problem as I mentioned in my TW600 and Z4 viewing thread. The new D5 panel has some really nasty issue! :(

Now I saw the Sony HS60, Epson TW600, Sanyo Z4 and the Panny AE900. No one make me want to trade my current Epson TW200H. :D

regards,

Li On

Jermmd

10-16-05, 10:27 AM

Thankfully, I don not see this problem on my 900. My old Toshiba RPTV had a nice convergence adjuster for the CRT's. Is there any way to adjust this on the Panny?

nilsp

10-16-05, 10:47 AM

I have trouble seeing that it is the panel that has issues. There is no processing done by the panel itself. Illuminate this pixel in this color and that pixel in whatever color.... That is all it does, right? Am I missing something? Artifacts must be introduced elsewhere.

NilsP

romanesq

10-16-05, 10:58 AM

It's on now AE900 vs. Z4:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ae900_plvz4.htm

Sankar

10-16-05, 11:00 AM

Thankfully, I don not see this problem on my 900. My old Toshiba RPTV had a nice convergence adjuster for the CRT's. Is there any way to adjust this on the Panny?
If you were to walk up to the screen (say to a couple of feet from the screen) and look at the words in the menu items, do they look aligned? Mine do not.
And yes, is there a convergence adjuster? I could not find one in the menus. The Toshiba RPTV had a 9-point (which was useless) in the standard menu and a 56 point grid in the service menu. This misconvergence should be easy to fix IF there is a adjuster ...

Thx!

rwestley

10-16-05, 11:20 AM

LI ON, when do you think CKL's review will be posted. Could you also provide the link.

stephenvv

10-16-05, 11:37 AM

I'm not a HT Projector expert but I am an indie filmmaker and shoot both film and video (though mostly still film these day due to the brutal prices of motion picture stock).

It's clear to me that if you watch mostly film based sources, the Panasonic will deliver much more accurate rendition of what the filmmakers intended you to see.

Very few films are often shot with some kind of diffusion or subtle softening to take the "edge" of the image. Most film cinematographers describe video as "harsh or overly sharp". Panasonics Smooth Screen and color processing are really something to write home about for those who watch film, most especially for the price.

I am very much struck by how smooth and film-like the image is, allowing me to see all the qualities of film-stock - grain, contrast, color rendition. There is no reason the AE900 could not be used to watch dailies by the DP, esp from an HD source, as it's close enough to projected 35mm.

I have not seen the Z4 yet, but it sounds like it is tuned more for watching live/event HD sources (sports, concerts, special program material). In those, usually no filtration or softening is used and producers prize a more 3-D look which comes from use of edge enhancement and different cameras. Also, the image is often captured in camera at 60i, rather than 24fps progress, which gives more realistic (and much less film-like) motion rendering.

The PC review noted the Panny much more capable of deinterlacing and pull-down removal - again, a projector tuned to film sources, where for the Z4, HD sports and other sources would have no need.

It could well be the Z4 design and tuning team were focusing on 60i HD sources for image tuning where clearly Panasonic spent most of their time tuning for film sources (including working with top Hollywood colorists).

That would result in different images. Just like brightness, sharpness is something that pops off screens when you see the image side by side. Evan at PJ only noticed the "softness" on the 900 when side by side looking at the Z4.

But a sharper image will have more noise and provide a less pleasing image on film sources.

Bottom line - decided which sources you watch most and want to be rendered best and pick the projector. I watch about 90% film sources, so the 900 is wonderful projector for me.

Just watched the remastered Strictly Ballroom and fell in the love with the movie again. Since I have been watching films on a 32" XBR from about 15 ft away, watching it on a 92" screen was just amazing.

William Mapstone

10-16-05, 12:15 PM

Normally digital LCD projectors don't have an easy way to adjust convergence.

CKL

10-16-05, 12:42 PM

LI ON, when do you think CKL's review will be posted. Could you also provide the link.

I have not completed the calibration and measurement works. The review may be posted within next week.

Sankar

10-16-05, 12:45 PM

I took some shots to show the extent of the problem I am seeing. I have posted them here (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/2044) .

Since I did not have a tripod handy, I took the shots using a table for a stand and had to hold the camera as steady as possible. However, since the shutter speed was quite slow, there is some shake. Also, I notice that one of the shots was not perfectly focused (I had it on manual focus). Nevertheless, the extent of the misconvergence is clear in the shots. In reality, the pixels are sharp and clear on the screen with the red ones spanning one line ABOVE and to the LEFT of the white line and with the green ones spanning one line BELOW and to the RIGHT of the white lines. Best visible in a right angle bend. Look at the letter "E" in the word "SHARPNESS".

The Projector is 1 day old.

Could other owners of the AE900u please confirm that they do not see this ... or if it is a common problem?

Sankar

10-16-05, 12:49 PM

I have not completed the calibration and measurement works. The review may be posted within next week.
CKL, my new AE900 is displaying a convergence problem. Could you kindly check for this and report on it as well? I have described the issue in the following thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=592132) and have posted some shots of the effect here (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/2044).

JimmyR

10-16-05, 12:51 PM

You do have a convergence problem.
Assuming you purchased from an AVS sponsor you should have no problem getting another unit shipped to you.

CKL

10-16-05, 12:55 PM

I've checked the alignment using Nokia Monitor Test's convergence testing pattern. Its condition is not as good as that of Z4. AE900 has more offsets among RGB panels in vertical and horizontal direction. I will check how this problem affects displaying white lines.

Sankar

10-16-05, 01:06 PM

I bought it from an authorized Panasonic dealer (also listed on their web page) in Texas who was referred to me. I have sent them an email with the photos etc and asked them how they would like to proceed.

Jermmd

10-16-05, 01:24 PM

I'll look real close when I get home tonight but I think I definitely would have noticed the problem if it were as bad as in your photos.

Ximori

10-16-05, 01:50 PM

PLincoln

10-16-05, 01:58 PM

my 700 has a bit of a convergance problem, but it is not noticeable doring movies. the only way to adjust them is to take the PJ apart and align them manually...at least in the 700, and it requires some extension cables..not enough of an issue for me right now to worry about it.

Sankar

10-16-05, 03:47 PM

Now that I look at it carefully, it appears that the misconvergence is only on the red panel. The green and blue appear to be together, but the red is one pixel up and to the left of the other two. The lines are all supposed to be 2 pixels wide and the result of the red being off is causing a 3 pixel wide line with just the center being white. I also notice this problem manifesting itself in movies ... edges are not sharp and well defined ... almost as if things are out of focus. HDTV looked clearer on my 65" RPTV (running at 540p) ... which it should not.

rwestley

10-16-05, 03:54 PM

MikeSRC

10-16-05, 04:34 PM

Sankar, I would return your AE900. There seems to be something wrong. I don't think others have had this problem.

I agree. I just ran the Nokia test mentioned above by CKL and it was dead on with my AE900.

cohagen

10-16-05, 04:46 PM

hello,

i've been enjoyong my panasonic ae900 for the past few days. i've read this whole thread !!! and yikes.. not exactly exciting reading, lol. i wish i had a bit more experience with HT and i could tell whether my projector had any problems. but oh well.

here is my question... i am beginning to play with my computer as input source via a VGA cable. i'm assuming the best resolution to use is the projector's native 1280x720. indeed, when i use this resolution, i find the computer image to be sharper. however, i am noticing the left and right of the computer screen is cropped significantly.

i read in this thread someone mentioned something about an auto-adjust feature? or perhaps manually adjusting position? also someone else mentioned sharpness adjustment?

can somone tell me why the projector is cropping a VGA signal in it's native resolution?

thanks for your time!

brandon

Sankar

10-16-05, 04:54 PM

Sankar, I would return your AE900. There seems to be something wrong. I don't think others have had this problem. I would contact dealer immediately and ask for another unit.
I am sure others would have seen this problem if they had it on their units. It seems like a panel misalignment problem.

Thanks rwestley. I think that you are correct, but I went through the motions of asking here in the forum just to make sure that its not just me.
I purchased this unit from an authorized Panasonic dealer (listed on the Panasonic web page) and am assuming that the exchange process will be painless.
I sent them an email today with details (and the snaps I took), but do not expect to hear back till tomorrow since today is a Sunday. I'll also call them tomorrow. My dealings with them have been very good so far and I am not concerned (yet).

The effect of the misalignment also shows up in movies --- edges are not that sharp and well defined. Feels like its out of focus somewhat.

If others also see such problems, I will begin to question Panasonic's quality control, but for now it appears to be an isolated case.

In all other terms, the PJ is great! No sde or vb on my unit, and the colors are well saturated! I have this projecting on to a 120" Blackout Cloth DIY screen in a light controlled room and its pretty bright. Contrast is pretty good as well. I watched "Rome" and "The Last Samurai" on HD last night and there were a lot of dark scenes. The PJ handled them very well and blacks looked black with ample contrast. It was nice to be able to see a large screen movie without suffering headaches!!!

I calibrated it using Avia, but did notice that the Color Decoder test image shows that there is some red and green push (about 5% for red and -5% for green). Not sure how I can fix that ... it does not impact the image in any noticable manner though. All in all a highly recommended PJ. I had a 65" CRT RPTV that I've lovingly maintained and calibrated. It puts out a rather impressive and crisp picture. The AE900 provides just as much brightness and contrast ... but at almost 4 times the area! The edge sharpness on the AE900 feels a bit weaker than on my RPTV, but that could be due to the convergence problem. On my RPTV, I check to make sure that the convergence stays bang on. I've noticed that whenever the convergence has drifted, the picture has become slightly softer, so this could be the same story with the AE900.

tvted

10-16-05, 05:15 PM

can somone tell me why the projector is cropping a VGA signal in it's native resolution?

brandon

brandon,

Its been a while since I've used VGA (currently use HDMI on a 700).
It might be a dot clock issue - look for AUTO SETUP in the POSITION menu and check that OVERSCAN is turned OFF.

I'm assuming that the 900's menus are similar to the 700.

Good luck,
ted

Oriphus

10-16-05, 06:59 PM

I know we have the Projector Central Review, but can someone post all of the reviews that are out so far on the Panasonic PT-AE900 from all the sites. I saw one from a site a while back but cant find it now. It would be good to have a list of every review, from the every day joe bloggs reviews (ie: PC Review) to the more technical ones.

Cheers
Chris

rwestley

10-16-05, 07:50 PM

Panasonic reviews:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/projectornews/panasonicae900u.asp

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae900.htm

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ae900_plvz4.htm

http://www.***************.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/755875/Main/753610/

http://www.ausmedia.com.au/panasonic_ae_900.htm#review

There should be two new reviews sometime this week. I don't have the exact date.

http://www.cine4home.com/

http://www.avbuzz.com/new_home/main.php

Ximori

10-16-05, 08:28 PM

RCN_Moose

10-16-05, 08:42 PM

Hmm. Okay so I've been reading these forums and have decided to take the plunge and retire my RPTV and go Proj. I am trying to decide between the Panny 900 and the Sanyo Z4. (leaning towards the Panny) Does anyone who has the 900 notice any problems with dust buildup on the lens or LCD panels? I've read that the Z4 has ports for cleaning these but I can't find any information on the Panny.

Thanks, Fred

Murray1080

10-16-05, 08:56 PM

Just wondering which projector might suit my setup best?
At the moment I have the Mitsubishi HC900 DLP but want to now go LCD, with all the recent improvments.
Things that are important to me is a bright picture thats sharp.
My setup is a white 102" (8' 6") wide screen. Seating 15 ft from screen.
Watching manly DVD in a dark room. Will use HDMI.
Both the Z4 and the 900 sound good for my setup but wonder if my fairly large size screen maybe suited to one or the other better? :confused:

Smegger

10-16-05, 09:01 PM

/snip... hello, i am beginning to play with my computer as input source via a VGA cable. i'm assuming the best resolution to use is the projector's native 1280x720. indeed, when i use this resolution, i find the computer image to be sharper. however, i am noticing the left and right of the computer screen is cropped significantly.

i read in this thread someone mentioned something about an auto-adjust feature? or perhaps manually adjusting position? also someone else mentioned sharpness adjustment?

Look in the ae700 tweak thread, fourth post.

startover

10-16-05, 09:14 PM

Folks,

Need your advice. I am in the market for a projector (versus plasma or lcd). Several a/v stores have advised me against buying a projector (ambient light, complicated setup, etc.).

I am thinking of getting the 900. Could anyone PM me with advice on where to buy at a good price. Also, three questions:

1) With a 11' throw, what is the largest image i can expect, with the highest quality, including the use of zoom
2) Do I need a screen, or can I project to the wall. What screen might work best in a home setting?
3) How much ambient light would be acceptable?

Take care and thanks.
---

Rieper

10-16-05, 10:58 PM

DanLW

10-17-05, 02:06 AM

Folks,

Need your advice. I am in the market for a projector (versus plasma or lcd). Several a/v stores have advised me against buying a projector (ambient light, complicated setup, etc.).

This sounds like an AV store that doesn't sell front projectors... I can't see any other reason they'd try to talk them down.

Also, their information is based on OLD data. Installation is more difficult IF you ceiling mount. And even if you do, there's nothing that says you HAVE to run your cables through the wall.

However, the AE900 is versatile. You can project a 100" image anywhere from 10 feet to 20 feet from the screen. If you put it on a bookshelf behind the seating area, you'll be good to go. With that setup, the only difference between setting up a projector and a standard TV is you'll have to get longer video cables to get to it.

Speaking of cables, I recommend you get a reciever that upconverts all sources to component (good) or HDMI (best). That way if you have multiple inputs (VCR, game systems, DVD) you don't have to make three or four different video runs (composite for older game systems and VCRs, S-Video for newer game systems, Component for newest game systems, HDMI for DVD)

I am thinking of getting the 900. Could anyone PM me with advice on where to buy at a good price. Also, three questions:

The forum rules state that you aren't allowed to use the PM system to circumvent the rules. Just a heads up so it's not a suprise if the Admins say something. But to answer the question, the Alliance members up top are pretty good and seem to have good customer service reputations amongst these boards.

1) With a 11' throw, what is the largest image i can expect, with the highest quality, including the use of zoom

108"

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic_Home-PT-AE900U-projection-calculator-pro.htm

2) Do I need a screen, or can I project to the wall. What screen might work best in a home setting?

You can project on a wall, but you'd be happier with a screen. You can make a very nice DIY screen using blackout cloth (go to Hancock Fabrics, Jo-Ann Fabrics, or any similar fabric store to buy this). Construct a screen out of 1X2s, and use tacks along the sides to stretch the sceen out. There's more to it, but I'm sure there are some very good DIY screen threads already on the forum.

3) How much ambient light would be acceptable?

That I'm not sure about as I have a pretty old projector. Projecting a 100"+ image will be less forgiving on ambient light. You should be able to have a little. Blinds probably won't be enough for daytime. Heavy drapes should do you well. If you're doint this in a basement, that's ideal.

Welcome to the world of BIG screen! Where screen sizes can be measured in FEET, not inches!

startover

10-17-05, 04:35 AM

DanLW, thank you for the generous use of your time. I sincerely appeciate it. Will let you know how I proceed.

mrPEPE

10-17-05, 09:07 AM

Finally, the 900 has made it to Australia.

Here a a shootout between the 900 and the 700 :rolleyes:

http://www.ausmedia.com.au/panasonic_ae700_vs_ae900_review.htm

KuroNeko

10-17-05, 09:20 AM

:D Thanks for the laughs :D

Neko

cpc

10-17-05, 10:07 AM

Is there anyone in Toronto who has or is planning to get the AE900? I'd love to see it in action. You can PM me if you're willing to provide a demo :)

Najeeb

10-17-05, 10:13 AM

Is there anyone in Toronto who has or is planning to get the AE900? I'd love to see it in action. You can PM me if you're willing to provide a demo :)

I've got one setup at the east end of Toronto. If anyone wants to see it, please PM me.

Najeeb

BobSalita

10-17-05, 10:14 AM

mrPEPE,

Excellent, well worth the look. Thanks.

Bob.

cohagen

10-17-05, 11:39 AM

Smegger and TVTed, thanks for your replies. Indeed, running the Auto-? function under position when PC (VGA) source was selected sorted it out and now no cropping. Thanks.

I have possibly a new problem though. I've noticed that when I play DVD's, I notice a bit of distortion or bleeding at the upper and lower edges of the screen. It spans the entire width of the screen. Instead of the picture stopping cleanly, there is a bit of pixel distortion or bleeding. I've noticed it on a number of DVD's so far I think.

Is this normal for DVD's? I have not noticed the problem with other sources yet. Should my top and bottom edges end cleanly? I see this when I am in 16x9 mode, HDMI input selected, DVD player output is 720p, and the DVD's in question are of the type that are wider than 16x9 and so I have a black margin on top and bottom (sorry don't know the name of this).

Hope you guys can clue me into what this could be. I'll take some pics tonight if it's not obvious what this is.

Brandon

Paul Klassen

10-17-05, 01:28 PM

Is there a mode on this projector(natural, dynamic,etc.) that will output around 600 lumens and give a decent picture(not the best possible but still good). Also which lamp power setting would this require( I am assuming high but I don't know).

My goal is to use this projector on my 126" unity gain screen in a 100% light controlled dedicated room. Any suggestions on the brightness actually required for that would also be appreciated. I know how to calculate ft-lamberts and have heard the 12ft-lamberts is the minimum desired value for home theater.

Thanks

Paul

darinp2

10-17-05, 02:00 PM

Finally, the 900 has made it to Australia.

Here a a shootout between the 900 and the 700 :rolleyes:

http://www.ausmedia.com.au/panasonic_ae700_vs_ae900_review.htm
Thanks. That is a pretty good review. I did have to kind of laugh at the following statement in there though:

Note the SP5000 is mounted further back (1M) than the AE900 so it's at a slight
disadvantage in terms of brightness, you should allow a few percent for this handicap.
I can't believe how many times I have seen recently where people have thought that because a projector is further away less light gets on the screen. I think this might be one of the biggest misconceptions about projectors because people remember the rules from school where light from a candle or light bulb drops off with distance. But, these projectors have focussed light with zoom lenses and it is the image size that really matters (unless you have a lot of dust, smoke, etc. that is keeping some of the light from getting to the screen). It is true that lenses will vary in how much light they let out of the projector at different zoom spots, but there is no way to know for sure which parts of the zoom will be brightest without investigating the particular model. But once the lumens are coming out of the projector they go toward whatever screen you have and are basically equivalent whether you have 500 lumens from 10' to an 7' wide screen, or 500 lumens from 20' to a 7' wide screen. Although with the longer throw the edges of most high gain screens (the Da-Lite High Power is retro-reflective and so somewhat different) can actually be brighter to a viewer in the center because of lower angles for lower hotspotting, and so actually higher average ft-lamberts even if the ft-lamberts are the same in the center of the screen.

--Darin

Hagar

10-17-05, 02:03 PM

Okay sorry, this isn't the answer you were looking for. But I just got a Panasonic AE900 and Oppo DVD player and now wonder what you really serious players use to set up the best picture and sound.

Overscan off or on ect....

My AE900 looks a tab bit dark to me. Using AVIA essentials, only brightness was brought up +11 for calibration and all other settings looked dead on.

Some OPPO explanations of what the heck some of those settings are would of been nice.

So can we get some info on setting these things up now.

Thanks
Dave :)

nataraj

10-17-05, 02:58 PM

But, these projectors have focussed light with zoom lenses and it is the image size that really matters (unless you have a lot of dust, smoke, etc. that is keeping some of the light from getting to the screen).

I wonder what they were smoking :D

Intellivision

10-17-05, 03:03 PM

Does zooming affect the PQ and if so, to what extent? Should one try to avoid using the maximum zoom?

wildfire99

10-17-05, 04:03 PM

I can't believe how many times I have seen recently where people have thought that because a projector is further away less light gets on the screen. I think this might be one of the biggest misconceptions about projectors because people remember the rules from school where light from a candle or light bulb drops off with distance. But, these projectors have focussed light with zoom lenses and it is the image size that really matters (unless you have a lot of dust, smoke, etc. that is keeping some of the light from getting to the screen).

I didn't really understand this right away until I looked up the inverse square dropoff for a point light source, and came across this rather useful visual representation:

Inverse Square Law for Light (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/isql.html)

As you said, it isn't the distance per-se that affects light, but the region across which the light is being spread out. Since we're illuminating the same area of of the screen, it doesn't matter where the projector is (the photons from each are being distributed in the same region). Which leaves us with only pure luminance differences, e.g. the actual amount of light coming from the PJ.

nataraj

10-17-05, 04:21 PM

Does zooming affect the PQ and if so, to what extent? Should one try to avoid using the maximum zoom?

Pure optics would dictate that at maximum zoom, pq will be worse. No different from cameras.

rwestley

10-17-05, 05:07 PM

I have an OPPO and you have to bring up the brightness from +2-+5 depending on the projector. Check this using AVIA or DVE.

Stevvot

10-17-05, 05:14 PM

Note the SP5000 is mounted further back (1M) than the AE900 so it's at a slight disadvantage in terms of brightness, you should allow a few percent for this handicap.

That's funny...I read the exact same review and took it to mean that he was saying that you have to account for the fact that all projectors are probably slightly (a few percent) dimmer at max. zoom. Judging from the rest of his review, I don't think he'd make such a gross error of thinking that just because the projector is farther away that it's dimmer (though he might have). I don't know if it's true that projectors ar slightly dimmer at max. zoom or not, but it wouldn't surprise me, due to what little I know about aperture sizes and focal lengths on cameras. It would be interesting to see some luminance tests on several projectors at max. and min. zoom to see if there are differences, and whether it always goes one way or the other.

That's great stuff about contrast ratios too. I've seen some threads floating around here before about how with any ambient light at all, the brighter, 500:1 CR projector will always outperform the dimmer, 5000:1 CR projector, because with any ambient light on the screen, you can't see the CR difference.

darinp2

10-17-05, 05:39 PM

That's funny...I read the exact same review and took it to mean that he was saying that you have to account for the fact that all projectors are probably slightly (a few percent) dimmer at max. zoom. Judging from the rest of his review, I don't think he'd make such a gross error of thinking that just because the projector is farther away that it's dimmer (though he might have).

I'm basing this partially on the gross errors that this same person made in his writeup on contrast ratio. I would give him more of the benefit of the doubt if he didn't show so much misunderstanding of the issue there. He completely screwed up what the Contrast Sensitivity Function is (basically had it inversed) and came to some incorrect conclusions. I sent him an email about it and noticed later that he at least cleaned some of his stuff up and put in a disclaimer that he isn't an optomotrist and could be wrong on some things, or something like that.

I don't know if it's true that projectors ar slightly dimmer at max. zoom or not, but it wouldn't surprise me, due to what little I know about aperture sizes and focal lengths on cameras. It would be interesting to see some luminance tests on several projectors at max. and min. zoom to see if there are differences, and whether it always goes one way or the other.
As I said, you can't know without looking at the particular projector. On one high end model with multiple lenses some inside specs I got showed that the end of the zoom with the higher lumen output was different for different lens options. And the CR was different too with the end with the higher CR being inconsistent. One reason is that many lenses have irises. I have measured one unit where the further distance away was something like 15% dimmer and I plan on measuring the AE900 at some point here. It's long zoom range will make this interesting.

It is definitely possible that the further distance for the same screen size will be somewhat dimmer on more models than not, but I'm sure it won't be universal.

--Darin

Stevvot

10-17-05, 05:48 PM

Makes sense to me. I look forward to seeing your measurements of the 900 at both extremes.

stephenvv

10-17-05, 06:13 PM

In camera lenses, increased zoom often means a smaller maximum aperture, though you can get very expensive zoom lenses that maintain the aperture throughout the zoom.

I'm not as familar with projector lens design, but since many do have irises, this seems like it could be an issue.

tbergman

10-17-05, 06:19 PM

See attachment.

What do you think? This is of the menu with background changed to black.

Thanks,

Tom

LazMan

10-17-05, 06:48 PM

See attachment.

What do you think? This is of the menu with background changed to black.

Thanks,

Tom

I'm guessing that from a reasonable viewing distance, that the RG and B pixels would still likely hit that same photoreceptor cell at the back of your eye and thus would be perceived as a perfect white line.

Can you notice any convergence problem when you are at 1.5x viewing distance?

Laz

cpc

10-17-05, 08:36 PM

That blue looks suspiciously like "chromatic abberation" ro the dreaded "purple fringe" that digital photographers know too well. Do you see that with the maked eye? If so, it could be the fault of the projector lens. If not, then I'd suspect the camera which took the picture.

Smegger

10-17-05, 08:53 PM

I wouldn't believe anything ausmedia say's.

Once they're out of stock of 700's, they will change their review to show how much better the 900 is and how important it is for existing 700 owners to upgrade.

Nothing new for them.

This has been a community service announcement, brought to you by the same people who make beeeeer milkshakes!

tbergman

10-17-05, 09:43 PM

Peter_Klim

10-17-05, 10:49 PM

Would it make sense to get the 700 instead of the 900 if it could be purchased at the same place new at $500 less?

I've never owned a projector before - if that makes a difference...

DanLW

10-17-05, 11:28 PM

Would it make sense to get the 700 instead of the 900 if it could be purchased at the same place new at $500 less?

I've never owned a projector before - if that makes a difference...

Arbitrary difference:

Vertical Banding. If you can get the projector demoed before you purchase, or can return it if there is VB, then you will be able to select a 700 with no VB. Otherwise, it's luck of the draw. And it seems the 900s are far less likely to have a VB problem.

Hard difference (non-fixable or tweakable)

The 900 is a little brighter. But perhaps not enough brighter to warrant the extra cost.

The contrast on the 900 will be better either way.

The 900's dynamic iris is much better than the 700 in that it's pretty much instant, so you won't see an image gradually get brighter, unless you're opening a window on a desktop. For movie viewing, shouldn't be noticeable at all.

Possible difference:

The 700 seems to have a "bulb fart" at around 150 hours where the bulb will suddenly lose a noticeable amount of brightness. We'll have to see if the 900s start doing that as they do use the same bulb from what I understand.

JimmyDaves

10-17-05, 11:34 PM

Does anyone have an idea how the Panny 900 would match with the Optoma Graywolf screen?

MikeSRC

10-18-05, 12:01 AM

From my post on the GreyWolf thread:

"On a side note, I have a new Panasonic AE900 in house right now and it's a great match with the GW. Because the AE900 lines up with the center of the screen (in default lens shift position), it doesn't end up far from the viewer when mounted. It's also extremely quiet, so it's not a problem to have it close. This plays to the strength of the GW, since it looks best when you're seated close to the projector."

Also, it provides a nice improvement in depth of blacks.

HTX^2steve

10-18-05, 12:15 AM

This is a quick review of my new ae900u. I do want to say that this forum is really great and has taught me a whole lot. Could have used a glossary at first on the language that you all talk but a very helpful site. This is my first HT so please feel free to educate me on how I did. Ok, just a little background on myself, Computer Network WAN and Backbone Engineer however, none of which I have used for HTX, except for Cat6 for running runners through the ceiling so bare with me. I haven’t gone through the receipts yet (don’t want to know) but I will guess around the price for each. I do want to thank my friend Paul who is pictured in my attic (who says it doesn’t snow in Florida) Please contact me if you would like details on anything I mention.

Projector Mount ($40) - Bolted a flange in the joists up in the ceiling to a threaded pipe to another flange to a clear plastic sheet with rubber washers that the PJ is mounted to.

What a pain that was…looks simple but for those who have been there you know what I mean. With gas prices where they are I was making a thousands trips to home depot for everything…seeing the same faces wondering what the hell I was creating. Anyway I ran my power cable to a ceiling light and disabled the light switch and make the circuit hot. Ran the 25 feet of component cable and two runners for future cables.

Screen ($60) - DIY blackout material fabric stretched onto a sheet of plywood to a 2X3’s and 2X7’s to keep the screen flat so there was no bowing.

I don’t trust those drywall bolts or screws so I was not going to hang a 50 pound screen onto a wall and have it fall so I screwed into the studs with two screws and then hung it up like a picture with wire. You will see why later. Plus I added a piece of carpet padding on the bottom so there was a spacer and cushion for the screen to rest on. I made the additional wood supports in red and the mounting screws and wire in green for the picture. I still need to add masking but still figuring out which on which easiest and lightest way to make an adjustable masking. Still working on that.

Speakers ($3000) - Now this was fun for me b/c I do enjoy music. I used to do all that speaker building back in the day with car audio so this time I just made it for the home. And yes that box with the 4 JL Audio 13W1v2-8 ‘s makes movies COME ALIVE! Now you see why I need to cushion the screen along with rubber mounts onto the projector. The center and fronts are JBL and the 6 surrounds are polks (4 in the back and 2 presence on the front wall).

AV Equipment ($4000) - Panasonic PT AE900U, Onkyo DV-CP701 DVD player, Adcom 555 MII amp for the subs and a Yamaha HTR-5760 which if anyone has I have tried to troubleshoot a DTS ES 6.1 Discrete issue with chapter two of Rush Hour 2. The audio skips throughout the whole movie but only with Discrete not with any of the other audio formats.

Ok, with all of that out of the way back to the AE900U. I have it 9 feet from lens to screen projecting a 45X80 Widescreen format. The lens is zoomed all the way out to make the image at that size. I do see a slight dimming in picture as if I was to zoom to the smallest picture it is much more brighter. First row of seating is 14 feet. When I start the projector I get two clicks from inside the unit (?normal?) then the splash screen. I was limited at the time b/c those darn component cables are so expensive so what I did was to use the wide/zoom feature along with the vertical lens knob to compensate. I do know I am probably losing some quality but that was the trade off at the time of installation. And when you get started with this project you just want it to end as quickly as possible. I do enjoy how simple it was to set up. Straight forward commands however, I do have some questions on how to set it up.

I did buy that Sound & Vision setup DVD. I feel that it was WAY to simplistic and I would need another detailed DVD. It does mention if you sit thought the presentation that the DVD is not recommended for PJ’s and just use it for CRT’s and rear projection LCD’s. Don’t know why but that is what they said. I did used it and did a minor tweak here and there to preference.

About picture quality…I do see screen door effect however, I don’t know what vertical banding looks like so I can’t tell. I am not sure if this is normal but any of the DVD’s that I play show on the menu as 480i.

Other than that so far with 20 hours on the lamp, I am very pleased with the purchase now let me hear from you.

Steve.

JimmyDaves

10-18-05, 12:55 AM

Which would be the better match for XBox videogames? the 900 or Sanyo 4?

darinp2

10-18-05, 12:59 AM

Makes sense to me. I look forward to seeing your measurements of the 900 at both extremes.
Okay, I did some measurements and the light outputs were quite different. I hope nobody will take these as being due to the inverse square law as light drops off after coming out of the lens, but is instead because of what is happening inside the projector and lens.

Here is what I got for the same image size, but with the projector as close to the screen as it would go vs furthest away:

Closest: 126 lux
Furthest: 70 lux

The on/off CRs I measured were different, but slight:

Closest (auto iris on): 3300:1 to 3400:1
Furthest (auto iris on): 3000:1
Closest (auto iris off): 1000:1
Furthest (auto iris off): 800:1

The 10% difference or so with the iris on might be within the margin of error given that I was holding the sensor for the test.

The values for lux were with no filter on the projector and in video mode with settings that I had used with the KR-6 recommended filter, but without total calibration (just enough to make me happy enough to watch for a while). Since I did some calibration with the filter, but didn't have it on there, this means that the images would have been lower in red than D65 would call for. The lamp was on low and if I had put it on high I believe the black level would stay the same (based on a test a few days ago), but the lumens for white would go up (and thus higher on/off CR). This was also with a 116" wide image. Calculating that out gives me the following for lumens:

Closest (no filter): 615 lumens
Furthest (no filter): 340 lumens

Checking how much the filter cut the light at this point and then calculating gave me:

Closest (with KR-6): 375 lumens
Furthest (with KR-6): 210 lumens

--Darin

J.T.L

10-18-05, 02:05 AM

SimpleSteve

10-18-05, 09:23 AM

Well, I ended up buying the 700 because I got a brand new one for only $1600. I couldn't justify the extra $700. But, I certainly haven't noticed any convergence problems (or VB for that matter), but I will look closer tonight just for kicks. I saw your pictures and it would drive me crazy. Good luck with resolution of the issue.

sportrac

10-18-05, 09:27 AM

I used a sencore HD video generator and didn't find any convergance problems. The first test was through the componet 1 but I have also used the pc port with no problems either.

William

Stevvot

10-18-05, 09:53 AM

Here is what I got for the same image size, but with the projector as close to the screen as it would go vs furthest away:

Closest: 126 lux
Furthest: 70 lux

...

Closest (no filter): 615 lumens
Furthest (no filter): 340 lumens
--Darin

Wow! Thanks for the data, Darin. That's a big brightness difference. I was always on the side of the farther the projector from the screen, the better, but this adds another component to the equation.

togi

10-18-05, 10:20 AM

Closest (no filter): 615 lumens
Furthest (no filter): 340 lumens

Checking how much the filter cut the light at this point and then calculating gave me:

Closest (with KR-6): 375 lumens
Furthest (with KR-6): 210 lumens

--Darin
Well that sucks. I was debating a shelf mount @ 24' vs a ceiling mount @13'. The shelf makes things so much eaiser, but it sure sounds like the PQ will suffer at that distance.

noah katz

10-18-05, 03:48 PM

Darin,

Thanks for the measurements. The brightness difference vs. throw is really surprising, though welcome for me.

Did you happen to notice how the lens performance holds up at minimum throw ratio as regards focus uniformity, chromatic aberration, and pincushion/barrel distortion?

Thanks

tvted

10-18-05, 04:01 PM

Darin,

Thanks for the measurements. The brightness difference vs. throw is really surprising, though welcome for me.

Thanks

The 700 exhibits the same light loss. It is a result of the aperture change since the focal length to lens (glass) ratio changes - much like many camera zoom lenses have different apertures for full wide vs. full zoom.

The manual lists a a range of F1.9 to 3.1 (a little more than a stop). I would think the 900 is using the same optics.

ted

jsm88

10-18-05, 05:22 PM

Help out a dullard here - what we're saying is, the closer you can get this pj to your screen, the better, right?

While we're on the point - why don't any of the dlps in this range offer such a short throw (ie. 100" at 10 feet.)

Herb

10-18-05, 05:41 PM

I know this sounds weird and I hope someone could offer up a solution.

I should preface this by saying it could very well be user or other equipment error. I upgraded from a Sanyo PLV-Z1.

Source equipment:
Oppo OPDV971H DVD player
DirecTV HDTivo
Hughes E86
Gefen 2x1 HDMI Switcher
50 foot HDMI cable
30 component cables

The AE900 picture is much brighter than the Z1. It has a lot more detail and none of the screendoor. However,it might just be the big jump in quality that might be disappointing me.

While watching football games both on CBS and ABC, via an OTA, I became acutely aware of artifacts around players and yardlines in medium to far shots. It was even more apparent when there was fast motion. Then I started noticing it when they would do a dissolve or overlay with the logo (HD graphics, not standard def).

It bothered me so much that I unhooked the HDTivo thinking I was seeing MPEG artifacts, and connected the E86 via component. I have read that people using long runs of DVI / HDMI cable have complained of sparklies. I thought maybe they were referring to artifacts.

This helped about 60%. I then did an A-B comparison between the E86 and the HDTivo via component. They looked about the same. So, apparently, HDMI from the HDTivo exacerbated the problem. But last night watching Monday Night Football, I could still see jagged aliasing, both at 720 and 1080i.

I then got out the manual and saw I could mess with the clock phase. Changing that setting may have helped some, I'm really not sure. I decided to turn it off at that point.

So...a couple of questions:

Is the 900 so good that I am seeing artifacts that exist in the broadcast?
Artifacts that the Z1 obscured with it's screendoor and lesser resolution?

Or could this be a result of the AE900's smooth screen?

I ask this because I feel that if the artifacting existed in the broadcast all along, I would have noticed it on the Z1 at some point.

Thanks for the input,

Herb

darinp2

10-18-05, 06:07 PM

Is the 900 so good that I am seeing artifacts that exist in the broadcast?
Artifacts that the Z1 obscured with it's screendoor and lesser resolution?

Or could this be a result of the AE900's smooth screen?

I ask this because I feel that if the artifacting existed in the broadcast all along, I would have noticed it on the Z1 at some point.

Just changing the ft-lamberts off the screen can have a big effect here. I have showed people this at get-togethers where I don't change anything in the source or projector at all, but just change between a brighter screen and a dimmer screen and the extra artifacts visibility is obvious on the brighter screen. You might want to try a neutral density filter and see if that helps.

--Darin

GameOver

10-18-05, 06:36 PM

Hello,

I was just wondering if there is any one here in this forum who previously had an AE700 and updated to the AE900 and if it is worth the extra money for the tweaks of the AE900 and overall better picture or just minor,i have not seen enough overall reviews yet from owners evern though the projector has only been available a for a few weeks now.I have had my AE700 for about 4 months and have been pretty happy overall with it,i watch DVD only using HDMI to HDMI at 720p.If any one can post there opions if they have had both units and list your comments would be great!

rboster

10-18-05, 06:49 PM

Gameover: At the top of the page is this comparison of the 700 vs the 900 that is quoted below.

I've read a number of folks that have compared the two, including reviews linked in this thread and Dan's thread on the AVS demo in LA that compared the two projectors side by side.

IMO, unless the retailer is willing to do a trade up for the AE700 to the 900, you probably would take a pretty hefty hit on the resale (even though it's 4 months old) to justify the differences between the projectors...but it comes down to a personal monetary value.

Good Luck
Ron

Arbitrary difference:

Vertical Banding. If you can get the projector demoed before you purchase, or can return it if there is VB, then you will be able to select a 700 with no VB. Otherwise, it's luck of the draw. And it seems the 900s are far less likely to have a VB problem.

Hard difference (non-fixable or tweakable)

The 900 is a little brighter. But perhaps not enough brighter to warrant the extra cost.

The contrast on the 900 will be better either way.

The 900's dynamic iris is much better than the 700 in that it's pretty much instant, so you won't see an image gradually get brighter, unless you're opening a window on a desktop. For movie viewing, shouldn't be noticeable at all.

Possible difference:

The 700 seems to have a "bulb fart" at around 150 hours where the bulb will suddenly lose a noticeable amount of brightness. We'll have to see if the 900s start doing that as they do use the same bulb from what I understand.

jcg

10-18-05, 07:09 PM

I just purchased the AE900 and have only watched a couple DVDs. At this point I really like the projector (my first), but still haven't done any calibration. I need to get a 50' HDMI cable to hook up to my DVD player and was wondering if anyone is running HDMI cables this long with the AE900? I looked on bluejeans, ram and monoprice and they all have 50ft cable, but the monoprice one is about 1/2 the price of the others. Anyone using monoprice? Are their cables of similar quality to the others?

jcg

Jermmd

10-18-05, 07:14 PM

I'm sorry to report that I too can see some convergence misalignment from up against the screen. I can not see it from my seating position 10 feet away.

Joe

calibos

10-18-05, 07:17 PM

Seeing as I am in the market for an AE900 after dropping my Ae300's prism/panel array and screwing up convergence, can someone tell my what the lamp life in eco mode is on the new AE900. Can't find the info anywhere. Was 2000/5000eco on the AE300 and am I right in thinking that the AE500/700 bulb life was 3000/6000hrs. Is the AE900 the same.

CT_Wiebe

10-18-05, 07:56 PM

jcg -- A friend of mine got a VGA cable from them and it appeared to be a very good cable. The cables at Bluejeans are custom made from very good, high quality, parts. It's your choice. RAM has good cables too. You get what you pay for, sometimes.

calibos -- One review (http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=50) indicated it's 2700 hours in the full power mode. So the lamp life is similar to their previous models.
From the review: "The manual indicates that lamp life is 2700 hours in full power, with the Iris on. (which dims the lamp as needed, so with Iris off (why?) the lamp life is probably lower."

MikeSRC

10-18-05, 08:11 PM

The lamp life for the AE900 is 3000 hrs., just like the AE700. At 2700 hrs. the lamp light comes on as a warning. Here's the description:

"The usage hours explained above are for when “LAMP POWER” in the “OPTION” menu has been set to “HIGH” and when “DYNAMIC IRIS” in
the “PICTURE” menu has been set to “ON”. When “LAMP POWER” has been set
to “HIGH” and “DYNAMIC IRIS” has been set to “OFF”, the usage hours will be 2000 hours. If “LAMP POWER” is set to “LOW”, the brightness of the lamp will be less and life of the lamp can be extended. While 3000 hours is the intended replacement interval, it is not a period of time covered by warranty."

So, at the LOW setting, the life can be extended beyond 3000 presumably, but there's no specific number given for obvious reasons. ;)

MikeSRC

10-18-05, 08:15 PM

darinp2

10-18-05, 08:38 PM

I didn't see any convergence problem with the first AE900 I had, (but it had reasonably bad vertical banding). The one I have now does have some convergence problem with the red a little to the right.

--Darin

calibos

10-18-05, 09:06 PM

Thanks for your help Mike. I think its looking perfectly feasible then that the unquoted life of the bulb in low lamp could be 6000+ hours. I mean if the AE300 was 2000 high lamp and 5000 hours low lamp and the AE700/900 was 3000 high lamp then the AE900 equivelent of the AE300s' 5000hours would be 7500 based on the ratio's though it probably doesn't work like that.

They probably stopped quoting the Low lamp figures because for the average user and the average PJ running regime the Low lamp figures were unobtainable by most and yet by quoting the figure Panasonic gave people false expectations and a reason in their mind to complain about bulb life. ie if they no longer claim their PJ can do 5000hours, people can't complain when their bulb goes before 5000hours.

I've gotten 5000 hours out of both my bulbs (9965hours on my AE300) by running Low Lamp High Fan with a regime of long runtimes with low on/off cycles.

Thats whats so galling about destroying my AE300 with my clumsyness. For a PJ that had done so many hours, the image was almost as good as new. It is only now that there is some minor discolouration developing on the blue poloriser though not yet noticable in normal viewing. ie. I would have been happy to run this PJ for another year and a half upto 15000 hours had I not dropped a part of it. When I have to give my new AE900 a clean should I get one, my work surface shall BE the floor rather then a kitchen table 3 ft above the floor!! :D :D

My running regime and comprehesive cleaning regime had it looking as good as new as I said earlier. Why did I have to drop the most expensive and critical part of the PJ. Its just not worth getting a new bulb now for 300+ and another 5-600 for the part I'd need.

But getting back to the point, what you quoted mike sounds very promising with regard to bulb life on the AE900. Thanks again.

MikeSRC

10-18-05, 09:17 PM

I've gotten 5000 hours out of both my bulbs (9965hours on my AE300) by running Low Lamp High Fan with a regime of long runtimes with low on/off cycles.

That's amazing and great to hear for a change. I'm usually happy with 2000 on any projector, so it's nice to hear someone getting long life out of a lamp. :)

KramerTC

10-18-05, 09:42 PM

How widespread is the "bulb fart" at 150 hrs on the AE700? Are those isolated incidents?

dialdn

10-18-05, 09:43 PM

Just upgraded from a BenQ 6100 to the AE900. Wow!

I am running HD signal using the Bell Expressvu (Dish) HD PVR using HDMI running 720 P. Everytime I switch channels the channel appears fine and then for a brief second it goes black and the screen comes back and all is good.

Thoughts?

D

csedaniel

10-18-05, 09:54 PM

Darin,

Can you clarify your contrast results a bit for me? Are you saying that you took the contrast readings w/o the filter but still using the settings that you used when the filter was in place?
I see that you wrote that w/o the filter you were short on red but would hit D65 with the filter in place(at least i think that is what you meant). So if i understand you correctly, D65 w/ filter will potentially reach approx 3300:1. is that correct?
As a side note, Brad Bissell recorded nearly 2300:1 w/ filter @ D65 with the 700(if memory serves) so this IS a significant improvement in CR

Thanks

Scrawner

10-18-05, 09:59 PM

Re: Convergence issue noted first in the OSD Menus by Sankar

My 900 came in today, and I observe the same issue in the menus except with mine its the green panel that is off a bit. Man that's annoying.

Seems like you could electronically adjust for the issue and just lose a line of resolution on one panel... What does the panel adjust in the service menu do?

Anyone else?

darinp2

10-18-05, 10:09 PM

Can you clarify your contrast results a bit for me? Are you saying that you took the contrast readings w/o the filter but still using the settings that you used when the filter was in place?
Yes.
I see that you wrote that w/o the filter you were short on red but would hit D65 with the filter in place(at least i think that is what you meant).

With the filter it hit reasonably close to D65 for a lot of the range, but the red did drop off near 100 IRE and I don't think I was getting a very flat curve overall.

So if i understand you correctly, D65 w/ filter will potentially reach approx 3300:1. is that correct?
I would really have to go do a full real calibration, which I'm guessing would give me a somewhat lower number because I let the red fall off and I would want to get things flattened out more. I just did enough to go start watching and things have looked good enough that I haven't been really motivated to go back and tweak more. I figure I will at some point here, but maybe somebody else will do some tweaking and I'll learn from that. I still have testing to do on my Sharp 11k and Optoma H79 with my Firehawk screen and will get back to the AE900 after that (although it may be getting back to it just to watch something since I enjoy doing that too. :)).

--Darin

Scrawner

10-18-05, 10:49 PM

Re: 900u Convergence Issue

Is it the lens shift?

I noticed a green misalignment when looking at the menus, even from my seating position. I can also see green fringing in bright static images.

After playing around a bit, it seems that the convergence is affected or altered dramatically by the lens shift. I was using the shift up and left quite a bit; I moved the shift to the other side and observed changes in the convergence - I picked up some red misalignment instead.

Interestingly, I moved it back to about where I started and the green mismatch was almost gone. But now I have a slight red shift the other way, but its much less noticeable than the green.

Can anyone else reproduce this effect? I wonder if its a function of the lens shift itself, or is using the lens shift somehow making subtle alignment changes to the panels? The misalignment seems a bit arbitrary but it does change with the lens shift.

I also played with the "Panel Adjust" service menu item, but was unable to determine what it actually does. Anyone?

noah katz

10-18-05, 11:05 PM

"why don't any of the dlps in this range offer such a short throw (ie. 100" at 10 feet.) "

The Sharp 2000 throws even shorter, but it's more $ and doesn't have lens shift.

dialdn

10-18-05, 11:27 PM

Think I know the issue. Seems it is a handshake problem. So, component it is. I need to figure out a use for the cable or return it. 4m Monster cable ain't cheap.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=526233&highlight=hdmi+handshake

D

Raddest

10-18-05, 11:44 PM

I was looking to purchase a Panasonic AE900 projector, and want to run an electric powered screen with it.
Does the 900 have a 12 volt trigger for a screen switch?
I was also looking at the Harmony 880 remote as well, and was also curious if it can operate an infrared switch on the screens??
I am in the process of wiring this bare room, and am running the 12v wire for the screen, irrigardless, but would like to know...

Thanks
Ron

cohagen

10-19-05, 01:12 AM

rotelryu

10-19-05, 04:02 AM

I wouldn't know for sure (but I think that others can help you out). If I look at the outlines of the mountains(Kill Bill? Star Wars?) against the blue sky I see some "ghosting", so maybe it's the same with the 2.35 borders?
Have you tried to check the same image on a different display(preferably CRT t.v.) to confirm it's not the source? Are you using HDMI or is this an analog connection (component)?

mrPEPE

10-19-05, 07:02 AM

Is anyone using the 900 along with the Panasonic S77 (or S97) DVD player? Do you notice if this combination has the macroblocking problem? I have ordered my 900 along with a screen and am looking for a relatively inexpensive upconverting DVD player that mates well with the 900 (and looks good of course).

Jim

I've ordered both the 900 and the S97 dvd player and will pick it up in a couple of days.

What is macroblocking ? can you describe what it looks like so i can look out for it. :eek:

I was initially going to buy the Toshiba SD6980 HDMI player before reading a review saying that the Panasonic S97 is far superior in terms of picture quality (go Panasonic !!).

almostgoth

10-19-05, 07:56 AM

Hello,

I mentioned in a previous post about some bleeding or distortion at the upper edge of the projected image. I've attached two photos of what is occuring.

I've played through a variety of sources, and from what I can gather, it is only happening when I play DVD's with an aspect ratio wider than the projector (meaning there is black border on top and bottom). The bleeding occurs on the upper edge between the image and the start of the black border.

I've take a few pictures which clearly show the problem. Upon close inspection, it appears to me to be two pixels worth of what is a yellowish tinged color. Could someone take a look and let me know what might be happening here?

Hope you can help!

Brandon

Brandon, if you try your dvd's with a crt television, you'll notice that this problem is still there, it's just much smaller. I believe It has something to do with the way dvd information is encoded. When you blow a picture up as much as a front projector can, it's a whole lot more apparent. It freaked me out the first time I saw it, but after trying different displays I realized that that's just the way the picture is.

rboster

10-19-05, 08:50 AM

I've ordered both the 900 and the S97 dvd player and will pick it up in a couple of days.

What is macroblocking ? can you describe what it looks like so i can look out for it. :eek:

I was initially going to buy the Toshiba SD6980 HDMI player before reading a review saying that the Panasonic S97 is far superior in terms of picture quality (go Panasonic !!).

Here is a current thread on MB. There is a lot of info on this topic in the dvd player forum...but this should give you the basics:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591032

Ron

krlock2

10-19-05, 09:18 AM

Hello,

I mentioned in a previous post about some bleeding or distortion at the upper edge of the projected image. I've attached two photos of what is occuring.

I've played through a variety of sources, and from what I can gather, it is only happening when I play DVD's with an aspect ratio wider than the projector (meaning there is black border on top and bottom). The bleeding occurs on the upper edge between the image and the start of the black border.

I've take a few pictures which clearly show the problem. Upon close inspection, it appears to me to be two pixels worth of what is a yellowish tinged color. Could someone take a look and let me know what might be happening here?

Hope you can help!

Brandon

i wish i could tell you what it is. i can tell you that it shouldnt be like that. what dvd player are you using? perhaps you could try playing movies through another dvd player, like your laptop, and try to determine if the problem comes from the dvd player, the cable, or the projector.

krlock2

ricktsu

10-19-05, 10:26 AM

dialdn ,

use an online vendor for your component cables instead of monster.

Rick

Sankar

10-19-05, 10:31 AM

I looked at my menu and I see the same thing as in the pictures. However, this is just a menu generated by the projector, not a convergenece pattern. Looking at a number of patterns from Avia Pro, I detect no convergence issues on my AE900.

Good point! Rather than work with Avia's convergence patterns (which I think are meant for 480p?), I decided to look at the convergence patterns from my iScan HD (which is sent in 720p). The misconvergence is actually more pronounced (than the menu item misconvergence) there --- and visible from 12 feet away. The lesson is that one cannot conclude anything from just the menu convergence (or lack thereof).

After playing around a bit, it seems that the convergence is affected or altered by the lens shift. I was using the shift up and left quite a bit; I moved the shift to the other side and observed changes in the convergence. Interestingly, I moved it back to about where I started and the green mismatch was almost gone. But now I have a slight red shift the other way, but its much less noticeable.

Can anyone else reproduce this effect? I wonder if its a function of the lens shift itself, or is using the lens shift somehow making subtle alignment changes to the panels?

I also played with the "Panel Adjust" service menu item, but was unable to determine what it actually does.

I will check on the lens shift and see its impact on the convergence grid. More interestingly, where did you find the "Panel Adjust"?

John Alison

10-19-05, 10:36 AM

cohagen - don't even bother to play DVDs on your laptop- shove up some test patterns instead. There are a load available in the HTPC download section.

Sankar

10-19-05, 10:37 AM

Is there a sticky somewhere that describes how one goes about aligning the PJ to the screen. I'm a complete newbie at this and am bound to make all the common mistakes ....

krlock2

10-19-05, 11:07 AM

well, i have today ordered the ae900 here in switzerland. was able to get a fairly good price and a discount on a 10m hdmi cable.

this will replace the second love of my life (after my girlfriend) which is my ae300. should be ready to pick up this weekend hopefully.

im looking forward to see the differences between my ae300 and the ae900.

the learning remote was a big draw for me. unfortunately, finding out about learning remotes only prompted me to go and buythe logitech harmony 885, which cost me more than my dvd player. however, i recommend that piece of equipment to anyone who enough av components to justify it... its great!!!

apart from that, im hoping to see better contrast, and hopefully a better image with my upconverting samsung hd950 over hdmi. lets hope, huh???? im also looking forward to it being a bit quieter than the ae300, to not have any little dust blobs at least for awhile, and perhaps a more useable computer desktop use with my vaio laptop. im also really looking forward to hook up the xbox360 to it once it arrives on our shores.

on the other hand, im hoping not to get dead pixels, im hoping not to see any vertical banding (never noticed it before, hopfully not now either), hoping not to have any other problems, and not looking forward to find out the resale value of my ae300.

still, lets be optimistic. cant wait for the weekend!!!

krlock2

Scrawner

10-19-05, 11:11 AM

AVWH

10-19-05, 12:11 PM

Yes, it does have quite strong VB..
The service menu has now a VB-Adjustment Menu, but it is not very effective. Neither with this VB Menu nor with the flicker adjust the VB could be reduced.

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

I'd be curious to see, if you can run it to > 100 or 150 hours, if the VB lessens.

That definitely happened on my AE700. I had no VB the first 5-15 hours, then pretty noticeable (though not horrible) VB - until >100-150 hours, when it almost went away totally. Now I get very faint VB for maybe the first 10 minutes of operation, then it's completely unnoticeable.

HTX^2steve

10-19-05, 12:22 PM

The service menu is accessible much like it was on the older panny's -- hit menu and go to the OSD ON/OFF option, then press and hold the enter key for a few seconds and a new menu will appear.

The panel adjust is a new option in this menu on the 900; so far I have not found any information on what it does.

Cool info Scrawner...I noticed that my flicker was off a bit...I also did a quick test with the temp indicators with regards to the fan speed...At sea level (Florida) I was getting readings of 147 and 171 with the fan on high and 128 and 164 with the fan on normal for the two fans. Who would think that having the fan at slower speeds cools the unit better.

JimmyR

10-19-05, 01:04 PM

Who would think that having the fan at slower speeds cools the unit better.
..................
It doesn't, the numbers are inverse .
The higher the number the "mo" better (cooler):)

tvted

10-19-05, 01:14 PM

Who would think that having the fan at slower speeds cools the unit better.
..................
It doesn't, the numbers are inverse .
The higher the number the "mo" better (cooler):)

Temps on the 700 were lower when the numbers were higher. This was outlined in the big 700 thread. Apparently Panasonic in their wisdom believe that somehow higher numbers are indicative of cooler operation

Unless I'm confused. :eek:

ted

willdao

10-19-05, 02:08 PM

<<I was looking to purchase a Panasonic AE900 projector, and want to run an electric powered screen with it.
Does the 900 have a 12 volt trigger for a screen switch?
I was also looking at the Harmony 880 remote as well, and was also curious if it can operate an infrared switch on the screens??
I am in the process of wiring this bare room, and am running the 12v wire for the screen, irrigardless, but would like to know...

Thanks
Ron>>

Raddest (Ron),

The 700 had a 12V trigger, the 900 does not; there is an RS232 port instead of the trigger port, AND (and this may make you smile): a brand new, slick little backlighted learning remote that can control not only equipment, but also the screen, lights, drapes, etc.--up to eight devices, I think. So, you may find you do not need the Harmony at all. :)

That being said, in terms of "future-proofing," if I were pulling cable (ugh!), I, too, would pull everything I might later need...just pull the 12v cable along for the ride, no biggie.

Welcome to the forums :)

cohagen

10-19-05, 02:41 PM

Hello all,

Thanks for your replies and help with my upper edge distortion / bleeding problem. Here is what I have setup:

Panasonic AE900U Projector
Panasonic S77S DVD
Panasonic XR70S Receiver
Paradigm Cinema 70 v3 Speakers

(HDMI Cables DVD -> RCVR -> PROJ)

I have the DVD player set for 16x9 display, and is set to 720p. I have the projector in 16x9 mode. Any help appreciated. Again.. I've attached the pictures.

Thanks for your help! Oh, and yes it is return of the Jedi, Tatooine (spelling!?)...

Brandon

cohagen

10-19-05, 02:48 PM

Ohh.. and in response to your guys suggestions regarding test patterns... I have my computer connected via VGA, and if I open up websites, look at images, I don't notice any problems. It only seems to appear with DVD's that have a wider aspect ratio.. meaning letterboxed when displayed through the projector.

I think the best test might be as someone suggested, play the DVD through a CRT and try to look very closely? Also maybe play the DVD on a computer, and see if on the computers LCD display, if the same problem exists?

Thanks again.

Brandon

almostgoth

10-19-05, 02:52 PM

cohagen

10-19-05, 03:36 PM

maybe you missed my response earlier, but have a look at dvd material on any other type of display device, you'll notice the same thing, only it's less noticeable, cause the image is probably alot smaller. definitely saw your reply and was pleased to see someone tell me this may not be a problem with the projector! i will definitely try tonight playing on my 27" sony CRT.

i'm just wishing more people would chime in and say they have experienced this problem. am i the only one watching star wars on my projector? or... is this a problem with my particular projector?

to reiterate.. on close inspection, it appears to be about 2 pixels wide.

tvted

10-19-05, 03:41 PM

definitely saw your reply and was pleased to see someone tell me this may not be a problem with the projector! i will definitely try tonight playing on my 27" sony CRT.

i'm just wishing more people would chime in and say they have experienced this problem. am i the only one watching star wars on my projector? or... is this a problem with my particular projector?

to reiterate.. on close inspection, it appears to be about 2 pixels wide.

Ok, I'll ring.
Seen it on mine. Picture is fine. Masking works. I think the EE (outlining) is a considerably worse artifact as that affects the picture, wherein what you are seeing does not.

Have you considered a CH 2.35 setup - eliminates black bars.

soliciting for the wide side,
ted

scotty144

10-19-05, 03:52 PM

I get the same 'ridge' along the top of my picture as well on 2.35:1....AE300 with upscaling player (1080i) See attached pics.

Pip

10-19-05, 04:43 PM

I also get the same ridge at the top and bottom of scope movies with an HS51.

Pip

cohagen

10-19-05, 04:59 PM

Ok, I'll ring.
Seen it on mine. Picture is fine. Masking works. I think the EE (outlining) is a considerably worse artifact as that affects the picture, wherein what you are seeing does not.

Have you considered a CH 2.35 setup - eliminates black bars.

soliciting for the wide side,
ted hello tvted, thanks for all your thoughtful and helpful replies to my very amateur questions and problems. couple of questions re: your post...

so am i correct in saying that you do see this problem as well on many dvds? i'll be quite glad to hear this is the case so i don't have to worry about having a faulty projector.

when you say "masking works", what do you mean?

what is EE (outlining)?

finally... could you provide a link if you know one off-hand to a good explanation of what exactly a CH 2.35 setup is?

thanks!

brandon

CT_Wiebe

10-19-05, 07:16 PM

cohagen -- EE in this case = Edge Enhancement, which puts extra edges on the picture outlines. It looks like the "ridge" (in the pictures) is a due to a slight misallignment of the panels (within specification limits).

CH 2.35 refers to "Constant Height 2.35:1" expansion of a movie filmed in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio (AR), like Star Wars, to fill a screen -- needs an external lens like a Panamorph, or equivalent.

Troytn

10-19-05, 08:04 PM

Well I stopped by a store today and they had a Sanyo Z3 and a new Panny 900 going on an 11' screen and a couch at 13' and I must say they looked good! I thought one had to be at minimum 1.5 screen width to not see the pixalation?

Well I must say the Panny looked way better. The Sanyo had visible pixels or small squares all over the screen and the Panny was smooth zero pixels. Of course the Panny is new and the Sanyo is older and the dealer stated that Sanyo was much inferior to Panny when it comes to projection picture quality. Has the technology changed that much in that the new 900 panny looked brighter and smoother then last years Sanyo Z3?

Please tell me the Sanyo Z4 will look better then this Z3 looked? They did not compare. I was leaning towards the Sanyo until I had seen the differences today. I may have to wait until they get a new Sanyo Z4 and see how close the pic quality is to the new Panny and how much better then the current Z3.

Clark Burk

10-19-05, 08:13 PM

Troy, Check the Sanyo Z4 thread. There are some posts from owners of the Z3 who upgraded to the Z4 and what they thought about the difference.

iceman56

10-19-05, 11:58 PM

Does anyone know of a retail location in the Seattle area that one can see the Panny 900 "in action"?
Thanks!
Steve

nataraj

10-20-05, 12:44 AM

Does anyone know of a retail location in the Seattle area that one can see the Panny 900 "in action"?
Thanks!
Steve

Even I'd like to know ... do post it here if you find out ...

boykster

10-20-05, 11:29 AM

Even I'd like to know ... do post it here if you find out ...

I tried, mostly in vain, last year to find a retailer in seattle with an 700 to view....most shop salesmen just shook their heads and tried to sell me a $7k dlp. Does anyone know if Visual Apex has an actual showroom? I bought my plasma from them several years ago, and even though they are very close (Bainbridge isle) I did the entire transaction via phone. They DO sell the 700 (and are a forum sponsor!) so it might be worth a call to see...

Rich

jeffropaige

10-20-05, 11:30 AM

rboster

10-20-05, 11:35 AM

tvted

10-20-05, 12:17 PM

hello tvted, thanks for all your thoughtful and helpful replies to my very amateur questions and problems. couple of questions re: your post...

You're welcome, - but you seem far more gracious than me. For me being an amateur is far better than being a professional. The word amateur comes from the Latin meaning "lover" or "to love". I do not see it as a slight, though for some reason in our society it is denigrated. Pros get paid and many amateurs are better qualified. Anyway enough of my pontification.

so am i correct in saying that you do see this problem as well on many dvds? i'll be quite glad to hear this is the case so i don't have to worry about having a faulty projector....

Like Claus pointed out - there may be panel alignment issues - but at this level this is not unusual - so that may be a factor. My 700 for example is not uniform across th image field but for all intents this is unnoticeable when viewing DVDs. A calibration DVD might be a consideration.

My HT is being whored up, so I can't check but I don't remember seeing this on my HTPC - so it *may* be an issue with the player with certain DVDs. As to further discussion you might ask questions in the DVD players or HTPC forums - those guys know their stuff.

when you say "masking works", what do you mean?...
I've a Constant Height setup so I'm used to moving the screen masking around. Masking (black borders) is very useful in that it allows you to define the screen and would allow for covering any edge artifacts that occur - comes from film screening and is exemplified by overscan in video. Its real value though is that it improves PQ by increasing apparent contrast.

what is EE (outlining)?
Claus also answered this - do a Forum or Internet search if interested. A DVD Faq can be found here (http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html) and might answer more than you wanted to know about DVD's

finally... could you provide a link if you know one off-hand to a good explanation of what exactly a CH 2.35 setup is?

brandon

Are you sure? "Amateurs" have a way of becoming captivated and can spend too much pursuing their muse. ;)
The forum is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=117).
The forum FAQ is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554901).
Flowers and diner might be a good way to start but soon you will be reaching into your wallet and arguing about Aspect Ratios.

I suggest you steer clear of this siren. ;)

One P.S - I've taken this a bit too far afield and suggest you return it to the 900.

ted

DanLW

10-20-05, 12:41 PM

I tried, mostly in vain, last year to find a retailer in seattle with an 700 to view....most shop salesmen just shook their heads and tried to sell me a $7k dlp.

This annoys the heck out of me. I went to one store and asked about the Panasonic and Sanyo and was told that they don't carry them because they don't have a reputation as good HT projector manufacturers. Do these salesdroids even keep up with the technology?

I'm even more amazed at the ones who have never heard of the AE or Z series of Panny and Sanyo. I mean, aren't they the two best selling lines of HT projectors?

DanLW

10-20-05, 01:35 PM

How widespread is the "bulb fart" at 150 hrs on the AE700? Are those isolated incidents?

I did a little digging and found the following threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=524209
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=573034

Do a search using "+AE700 +Lamp" in Advanced, and using topic headings only, and you'll find a couple more.

Edit: Added second link.

AVWH

10-20-05, 04:25 PM

This annoys the heck out of me. I went to one store and asked about the Panasonic and Sanyo and was told that they don't carry them because they don't have a reputation as good HT projector manufacturers. Do these salesdroids even keep up with the technology?

I'm even more amazed at the ones who have never heard of the AE or Z series of Panny and Sanyo. I mean, aren't they the two best selling lines of HT projectors?

The salesman left just one word out of his answer: "we don't carry them because they don't have a reputation as good margin HT projector manufacturers."

:) :cool: :eek:

MikeSRC

10-20-05, 04:30 PM

The salesman left just one word out of his answer: "we don't carry them because they don't have a reputation as good margin HT projector manufacturers."

Very true, which is also why they're not going to use up floor space to display them.

chayto

10-20-05, 04:51 PM

The salesman left just one word out of his answer: "we don't carry them because they don't have a reputation as good margin HT projector manufacturers."

:) :cool: :eek:
Those places are a joke, the way they check you out when you come in to see if you are the kind of guy who is going to drop at least 10k there ... If obviously not, they don't even bother spend time with you.

In the SF bay area, there are also the Anderson's stores, which are not like those high end custom installation places. They claim to sell "The Ultimate Big Screen Experience", and guess what, at least last time I checked, they didn't even sell projectors ! Now that's false advertising ! That's a really a shame that so many people end up buying expensive little TV when they could have been much happier with a front projector, for less money.

KramerTC

10-20-05, 05:31 PM

I did a little digging and found the following threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=524209
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=573034

Do a search using "+AE700 +Lamp" in Advanced, and using topic headings only, and you'll find a couple more.

Edit: Added second link.

Thank you.

Hagar

10-20-05, 06:45 PM

It'd be interesting to get with other enthusists about how there doing it.

Still no word on this forum about setting up the AE900 with regards to overscan, NR, and such. How about that useless owners manual for the OPPO?

rkihara

10-20-05, 11:20 PM

I read the earlier posts on the subject of projector brightness vs distance and thought I'd mention that there's a simple way to figure this out. The Panasonic spec sheet gives the f/number for the zoomed-in lens as f/1.9 vs f/3.1 for zoomed out. The difference is brightness scales as the ratio of the f/numbers squared, so the difference in brightness between max and min zoom should be about 2.7, not counting transmission losses.

ABCD

10-21-05, 01:55 AM

If I remember correctly from my photography days, the difference between f2.0 and f2.8 is one stop, or half the amount of light. So f1.9 (maximum wide-angle zoom) will have 2.66X more light than at f3.1 (maximum telephoto zoom).

I am currently using maximum wide-angle on my AE700, and the imagine is plenty bright even on low-lamp setting on an ~80" wide matte-white, even though the lamp has a few hundred hours on it.

rotelryu

10-21-05, 05:28 AM

When is avbuzz.com and ckl going to do a review on the pana ae900? I thought he said it was coming awhile back? I like his reviews because they are very indepth and he compares the projector to the others in its class very well. jeff

Me too, I checked his site today an noticed some sort of article (z4 vs AE900) but unfortunately my chinese is a bit rusty lately :) .

And I'm also anxiously awaiting cine4home's review. Last week there was a mentioning on this thread that they had a review sample. unfortunately no review as of yet.

TVTED: thank you for your elaboration on the meaning of "amateur". A very refreshing (and very true) perspective (and not something that I plan to forget).

rwestley

10-21-05, 06:09 AM

I just found this from CKL in the 900 tweak thread. It seems that his review will be posted tomorrow.

"I'm typing the review and may post it at AVBuzz tomorrow"

__________________
CKL
Sony HS60; Epson TW600; Sanyo Z4; other reviews
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rotelryu

10-21-05, 10:17 AM

I just got a call from my dealer. The panny 900 has arrived and ready for pick up. :)
My internet connection is down at home, so I might not be able to post my (brief) findings at this forum until tuesday.

I just hope that my model is free of any serious artefacts (No VB, plenty sharpness and minimal picture noise).

I am glad that this forum has served so well as an outlet for my anticipation, and looking forward to further enhance the performance of the beamer thanks to the contributions of so many posters. Keep up the good work!

Scrawner

10-21-05, 11:44 AM

I unpacked my new AE900 this week, and within minutes of turning it on I noticed some annoying vertical streaks in the picture, particularly with green and greyish colors when I turned on the MLB playoffs. :(

I popped in my DVE disc, and lo and behold on the opening screen it was plain as day. I've attached a photo; its a little less prominent in this low res photo, but I'm sure you will agree its there and annoying as can be. I also note some pretty bad color uniformity issues in this shot as well, on the left side there's a reddish tinge. I moved the lens shift around and such and it did not change. Likewise the banding is definitely not coming from my screen.

I previously had a 300U, and installed a 700 for my parents this summer and have never noticed this before.

For those of you with a 900 and or a 700, do you see this level of banding? If you have Digital Video Essentials try reproducing this screenshot. I'm calling my dealer today. I also tried the panel adjust in the service menu, which I believe is supposed to be a VB tweak. The default setting was the best, and other settings just made it worse.

Hopefully mine is an anomaly.

DanLW

10-21-05, 12:43 PM

I can see the vertical streaks a bit. But what really pops out is all the ghosting around the lines and text - is that normal?

Brajesh

10-21-05, 12:48 PM

Scrawner, are you using a component video cable? Make sure green, blue & red are matched up between your source & the projector. That ringing/ghosting effect we're seeing in your screenshot is similar to what I saw when my brother had improperly connected his InFocus 4805.

HeyNow^

10-21-05, 01:25 PM

Does a straight ahead shot have the same results?

Scrawner

10-21-05, 01:28 PM

I am using component, however I've ruled this out by swapping cables, and also connected an s-video cable and get the same result. Its visible through my DVD and HD sources. Also, when viewing the panel adjust screen in the service menu (driven by the projector) I see the same thing. What's strange is that if you look at the individual pixels close up, there's this interesting 'dithering' type effect in what looks like 4x4 squares of pixels. Whereas one set of pixel 'squares' will be a nice continuous tone, another set will look 'interlaced'.

Funny you mentioned the ghosting, etc. I noticed the same thing, though I popped the DVD in my laptop and the same effect is there if you look closely, although it looks much more prominent on my 900. Coupled with that, the other effect I'm getting is that HD sources that typically look buttery smooth and full of detail often appear mildly to moderately pixellated -- like watching a compressed video stream or a highly compressed jpeg -- the details have this noise effect around them. I never noticed this on the old 300 or 700 units I've had. I've played with all the settings I can think of to no avail.

tvted

10-21-05, 02:20 PM

I've played with all the settings I can think of to no avail.

It *does* look like you've a case of VB. :eek:

As to the pixelation - have you tried playing with the sharpness control.
Are both sources using the same cables through a switch?
How long are your cables? Have you tried short ones?

ted

Scrawner

10-21-05, 02:39 PM

It *does* look like you've a case of VB. :eek:

As to the pixelation - have you tried playing with the sharpness control.
Are both sources using the same cables through a switch?
How long are your cables? Have you tried short ones?

ted

Thanks Ted -- yes for the moment I've tried several short 3-6 foot cables directly from the source to the projector.

I just figured out the HD pixellation issue fortunately; I was using a brand new Motorola 6412 III tuner (comcast), and I noticed that in the setup menu (a bland black text on a grey background screen) that when using 720p, the text has a prominent ghosting effect that disappeared when I switched to s-video. When I changed it to 1080i it was better but not perfect. I went and swapped in an older 6412 from another tv and the ghosting went away completely! Still have the vertical banding though :( Thanks for your help.

tvted

10-21-05, 02:53 PM

Still have the vertical banding though :( Thanks for your help.

This used to work on the 700 - disconnect the pj from the mains overnight (I run mine trough a power bar so this was simply throwing the switch in my case). I've some thoughts on why this worked, but none that might be considered worthwhile.
After several hundred hrs on my 700 I stopped doing this and VB is not an issue. With the 700 it also went away after about an hour or so of use. Does this happen with the 900?

I must say the VB on my unit was never to the degree that your picture shows. If a warm up period or a disconnect has no impact I would definitely call my dealer since Panasonic seems to be finally acknowledging that there is such an artifact.

Good luck,
ted

Scrawner

10-21-05, 03:32 PM

I'll give the old 700 tweak a try; I sent some screenshots to my vendor and they are going to forward to Panasonic for their feedback. Hopefully that won't impede my ability to get a replacement - maybe Panny would like to take it in as a QA sample :)

Here are a couple other shots for those interested. I'm still eager to hear from any others with a 900 for comparison. In the Panel Adjust service menu, I find the streaking very visible in both Green and Blue panels. Given that its affecting two panels, I wonder if its a different issue from typical VB. Maybe some sort of interference...

vince2

10-21-05, 04:35 PM

My 900 is arriving tomorrow so I have some concern over what your experiencing Scrawner. It may very well be interference. I was wondering whether you tried plugging the PJ into another outlet or are running it through a power conditioner. Also, have you tried taking the cable box (and cable, both physically disconnected) out of the loop and tested just with a DVD? I've had some nasty interference before that tracked back to my Comcast cable. Anyways, as soon as my unit arrives I'll try to reproduce the results you have posted.

Croc

10-21-05, 06:32 PM

got my AE900 and spent some 5 hours with it.
no VB here - thanks mighty.
DVD is sony dvp-ns9000es. connections are good svideo cable and super cheap component.
component still looks better - what a surprise ;) .
from 5m on 120" white screen (no brand) picture looks bright enough in low lamp mode.
blacks could be blacker - but constrast, shadows and picture depths are quite good (not CRT kind thought).
NORMAL and CINEMA1 looks most accurate with colors. but i tell it by eye perception - so it might be desceptive.

remote control doesn't peak up at all if you sit behind the projector.
what to do? IR transciever? a mirror? :eek:

as a learning remote it's quite useless IMO - to select which component to control (except PJ itself) takes 3 buttons pushes at least (add one more for BACKLITE push if you're in the dark room).
in addition amount of programmable buttons is very limited.
in short - if you need an universal RC - look somewhere else - unless you're ready to push 4 buttons each time you want to switch from receiver to DVD control and vice versa.

ac388

10-21-05, 07:42 PM

It *does* look like you've a case of VB. :eek:

As to the pixelation - have you tried playing with the sharpness control.
Are both sources using the same cables through a switch?
How long are your cables? Have you tried short ones?

ted

I don't think they are VB. They maybe some kind of interference or malfunctioning on the panel, since VB itself should have no color.

Scrawner

10-21-05, 08:38 PM

One thing for sure, the new Panel Adjust service menu does affect this banding that I'm getting. It has a range of numbers from 11-17 or so, and cycling through these does change the position, and to some extent the quantity and visibility of the lines, but it appears the 'setting' that would be required to get rid of it is outside the calibration range.

Pultzar

10-21-05, 09:27 PM

lumocolor

10-22-05, 08:15 AM

Scrawner:

Hope you'll get a new pj..without vb. Maybe this one just slipped away..
I still owned the little old dino ( AE100 ) .. with vb as showned on your pic's.. but it doesn't bother me at all.. it reminds of the old days when projecting 16mm and S8 ;)
Anyway Good luck !

tvted

10-22-05, 10:52 AM

I don't think they are VB. They maybe some kind of interference or malfunctioning on the panel, since VB itself should have no color.

Er..... colour? :confused:
You're right it *is* independent of the primaries though it *is* panel dependent. However, a full field of a singular colour like green or the blue one that Scrawner posted makes it readily apparent. You will have to clarify what you are getting at.

ted

isamu

10-22-05, 12:44 PM

so are most of you guys pleased with the image quality? How would you rate it against say, the picture quality of the local movie theater you generally go to?

LazMan

10-22-05, 01:37 PM

For you non-expert home theatre enthusiasts...

I have just set up my ae900 on a smallish room (11' throw) and have projected a 100 inch diagonal image.

For now, i'm projecting on a light yellow coloured wall in a room with very bright walls. When I finish painting the room darker and painting a grey or white screen, I'm sure the image will be better. I've just been using the Cinema 1 mode.

That being said, I'm extremely impressed with the picture quality. To my amateur eyes it is almost flawless. I would say it is better than my local theatre.

I noticed fairly severe verticle banding on a ae700 demo unit. I can see no trace of that with my projector. Also, I can only see the screendoor effect when I stand 2 or 3 feet from the screen.

I don't have much to compare this to, but I'm certainly not disappointed.

Laz

stowey

10-22-05, 01:55 PM

I looked at two, they were very similar, WAY better than the 700 they had on.

Very very minimal VB, Way Way better than the 700, and I was looking for any dead pixels, none that I could see on both 900's.

Much less fan noise also.

back at 1.3 screen width, 480i dvd looked incredible! I can only imagine HD.

I picked up some black out cloth for a screen.

I have to set it up now and feed it some HD clips, I only have component cables for now.

I'll post an update once I have it out of the box! :D

I'm very happy I had the chance to see a couple of 900's before I purchased and am pleased they were both excellent. :p

Darryl

Sankar

10-22-05, 02:47 PM

I'm projecting a 120" image on a diy blackout cloth screen from 13'. My viewing distance is around 14'. Using Cinema 1, low power mode, basic adjustments with Avia. Picture is excellent with no visible SDE or VB. My unit has a convergence problem (I posted about this earlier) and I will be exchanging the unit for a new one. In spite of the slight misconvergence, the picture is great! Well saturated colors, sufficient contrast, plenty bright and sharp. Probably will get a bit sharper with a new unit that has dead on convergence, but its no slouch.
Very satisfied ... :)

stephenvv

10-22-05, 03:19 PM

so are most of you guys pleased with the image quality? How would you rate it against say, the picture quality of the local movie theater you generally go to?

Better than most local cineplexs in my area which often suffer from smallish screens, trashed prints, bulb fade, dirty gates, cheap screen materials etc...

Especially better than our only local art-house which only has 200 inch screens, seating for 20 in each of the 4 theaters and a screen which looks like your projecting onto sparkly muslim - very distracting and low contrast to boot.

Not as good as crisp prints and archival 35mm projection at NC School of the Arts, which is truly stunning and humbles any HT setup (50ft state of the art screen, stunning 35mm projector with zero gate weave, flicker etc. Jaw-dropping. Maybe we will get something close to that with Blue Ray sources and unlimited contrast range projection in 5-10 years.

That said, my 900 is a hit with me and friends. Tonight is our weekly movie night - on tap "Diva" and some Res shorts.

NurEinTier

10-22-05, 04:39 PM

z4 vs pan 900 shootout on a dutch forum by J.A.F. Doorhof (I hope he doesn't mind me linking it here).

quote:

"Conclusion
For me on THIS moment without doubt the Panasonic 900, the purchase advice is.
Despite the advantages of the cleaning by the Z4 and the better AB and lensshift, I find not tell the iris really many to annoying and thought through by the Z4.
I settle rather for a something lower CR and a fantastic image without artifacts and swings.

Furthermore is them to me striking in order to see them to me how ongelovelijk much more detail there in the small details to to see be by the new panels, by the fifth element and the DVE DIRECTLY demo to pieces is the fantastic details to to see that you on the older panels scarcely wanted to see.

The panasonic is projected for me on THIS moment the best LCD on the market under the 2000.00.
I have been aroused curiosity QUITE to the new Epsons."

I can't give you a direct link, spam prevention.
Feel free to post a direct link below this post.

htorum
.
nl
yabbse
/
index.php?
topic=35753.0

for translation use

freetranslation
com

startover

10-22-05, 09:02 PM

Folks,

Need you help. Could you please let me know how big of a picture I could get with a throw of 11.5'? The calculator would suggest 57" without zoom. What would I compromise with zoom? How far can you take it without losing pic quality?

Thanks!
---

vince2

10-22-05, 09:38 PM

Well, I just received my AE900 and set it up. It is replacing an Infocus Screenplay 110 (similar to the 4805) and projects onto a 100" Stewart Firehawk screen. I have it mounted on the ceiling (~7.5 ft from floor) about 17' from the screen. First impressions are that it is easy to get up and running. I LOVE the lens shift adjust feature. Menu is fairly straight forward as is the remote. Now to the picture (I am using component cables about 20' long):
Overall, this unit puts out a really nice, smooth picture with few noticible artifacts. The quality is HIGHLY dependent on the source material, even varying from DVD to DVD. HD material from the Comcast DVR was very impressive where I spent the last hour watching the World Series and College Football (in partial light to boot). In comparison to my Infocus unit, the benefits of added resolution are clearly apparent. However, the colors with the 900 aren't as deep and are suffering from a yellow bias. I haven't had the time to play around too much, but this is as viewed in normal mode before and after modest adjustment using the Avia disk. Video mode seemed slightly better while other modes appeared completely useless for my screen. As far as the blacks go (one of my concerns going from DLP to LCD), they are just fine with plenty of detail. Most notably, at last...no rainbows! I previously had this problem watching football action under DLP. Text appears better as well, most likely from the resolution step up. These are initial impressions. Clearly I need more time to fully adjust to the new unit but so far have no regrets.