Folks,

Need you help. Could you please let me know how big of a picture I could get with a throw of 11.5'? The calculator would suggest 57" without zoom. What would I compromise with zoom? How far can you take it without losing pic quality?

Thanks!
---

114"

Go to http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic_Home-PT-AE900U-projection-calculator-pro.htm. It's a fully interactive throw calculator with sliders for distance, zoom, and screen size.

Great review CKL... only thing I disagree with is your pros and cons. In the U.S., Pannys are MORE expensive than Sanyos. I know it's not the same overseas, just wanted to point that out for anyone in the U.S.

I'm confused as to where the "noise" comes from on the AE900 or what causes it. Apparently, this is the main issue that CKL has with this projector. Otherwise, it would be pretty close to perfect picture quality.

I wonder if this is the same noise that I saw on both their 300 and 500. It was quite noticeable only when compared with another pj, like the HS20. Another thing I noticed was that the overall look and image on those two did not match the clarity look of the Sony - and this is where I presumed optics played a role in my decision to consider the Sony Hs20, two years ago.

Clearly, there is no winner between the Z4, AE900, and Sony HS60. One excels over the other with an attribute and then suffers from another in comparison. In hindsight:

color - AE900, Z4, HS60
contrast - Z4, HS60, AE900
sharpness - Z4, HS60, AE900
brightness - AE900, Z4/HS60
blacks - HS60, AE900, Z4
lack of sde - AE900, Z4, HS60
less noise - HS60, Z4, AE900

and among others to consider: depth, overall image, better optics, features, price, etc.

I think I'll wait till the HC3000 gets reviewed then I'll pretty much know which direction to go...

Thanks to all for posting and sharing their info.

Although this forum has many tweakers, I am not sure that using two filters to obtain the best results is the way most of us want to go. but it does seem to work for CKL and I appreciate his contributions.

I'm mainly interested in getting the best gray scale which leads to best flesh tones and colors, and usually involves some changes to the r.b.g bias and gain settings. I've rarely read a projector review in a magazine that seems to mandate the use of external filters.

As many users have now reported the lean toward yellow in the colors, I would appreciate the changes necessary in the advanced picture menu to correct for this.

I would be interested to read comparisons of these new projectors without any filtering for all.

Shelly

The subject of noise came up in a previous thread as it relates to CLK's comments about the 900. I have not seen the problem with noise on my unit. I have a particular sensitivity to video noise and spent an (albeit) an hour comparing to the Yammy LPX 510 and both had a very noise free image.

Someone suggested in that same thread that video noise may vary from unit to unit, just like VB....I would guess this could be the case.

Ron

Although this forum has many tweakers, I am not sure that using two filters to obtain the best results is the way most of us want to go. but it does seem to work for CKL and I appreciate his contributions.

I'm mainly interested in getting the best gray scale which leads to best flesh tones and colors, and usually involves some changes to the r.b.g bias and gain settings. I've rarely read a projector review in a magazine that seems to mandate the use of external filters.

As many users have now reported the lean toward yellow in the colors, I would appreciate the changes necessary in the advanced picture menu to correct for this.

I would be interested to read comparisons of these new projectors without any filtering for all.

Shelly

I don't think it is a must to add filters onto AE900. It is just a option. You can choose Cinema 1 for smaller screens while Normal for bigger screens. Using two filters is because I can't get 81C and CC40R in the nearby store. I have measured the primay colors after adding the filters. They don't affect the coordinates on the CIE chart. My comment on AE900 is the same even without the help of filters.

I only watch HD, never DVDs. It is usually from my htpc, but it could also be from cable or satellite.

2 things worry me from CLK's review. First is that 1080i looks soft compared to 720p. While I can use the htpc to send only 720p to the projector, I may not have that option (or don't want to use that option) for live viewing from cable or satellite.

Second is that the picture is "noisy", I assume for both 720p and 1080i. I am hoping that maybe it was only a bad sample.

Originally I was going to just buy the AE900 (since I already have the ceiling bracket from the AE700), but I think I am going to check out the Z4. I want to see first hand what difference a "noisy and soft" picture really means.

The one thing that really bothered me for the AE700 is the lens shift. In my setup, I am using almost all of the vertical shift, and I can clearly see that the bottom of the picture is not straight, and I wonder what other degradations are happening. It looks like this issue has not been solved.

I wonder if this is the same noise that I saw on both their 300 and 500. It was quite noticeable only when compared with another pj, like the HS20. Another thing I noticed was that the overall look and image on those two did not match the clarity look of the Sony - and this is where I presumed optics played a role in my decision to consider the Sony Hs20, two years ago.

Clearly, there is no winner between the Z4, AE900, and Sony HS60. One excels over the other with an attribute and then suffers from another in comparison. In hindsight:

color - AE900, Z4, HS60
contrast - Z4, HS60, AE900
sharpness - Z4, HS60, AE900
brightness - AE900, Z4/HS60
blacks - HS60, AE900, Z4
lack of sde - AE900, Z4, HS60
less noise - HS60, Z4, AE900

and among others to consider: depth, overall image, better optics, features, price, etc.

I think I'll wait till the HC3000 gets reviewed then I'll pretty much know which direction to go...

Thanks to all for posting and sharing their info.


the ae900 seems to have higher contrast than the z4 at d65 color

I only watch HD, never DVDs. It is usually from my htpc, but it could also be from cable or satellite.

I think the Z4 might be better. I have the 900 but watch mostly DVD's. Panasonic tuned this projector for watching movies from DVD (see the brochure, marketing info etc). The Z4 seems to have made HD 60i sources it's tuning focus.

Bottom line is the display needs for interlaced HD are very different from 24 fps film sources. It would be tough for a manufacturer to meet both ideals and spend the same time.

I have not seen a Z4, so I could be wrong, but that's what I'm picking up from the info online.

The 900 is stunning for DVD - Episode IV played off a 480i player looks nearly as "HD" than the 720p and 1080i sources I have fed on the 900.

I don't think it is a must to add filters onto AE900. It is just a option. You can choose Cinema 1 for smaller screens while Normal for bigger screens. Using two filters is because I can't get 81C and CC40R in the nearby store. I have measured the primay colors after adding the filters. They don't affect the coordinates on the CIE chart. My comment on AE900 is the same even without the help of filters.

Thanks for the followup on this, CKL. The 3 projectors you have now reviewed (Pan 900, Sanyo Z4, Epson 600) are on most of our short lists.

Still have the Hitachi 200 (PJ52 in U.S.), Mits 3000 and the Epson 550 to go.

It's a banner year for new under $3500 projectors.

Shelly

hey ckl, did the ae900 you reviewed have different osd lang? like english and japanese? -jeff thanks for the review,

p.s. how would you rate the new ae900 against the last years sony model hs51/50? thanks again

Bottom line is the display needs for interlaced HD are very different from 24 fps film sources. It would be tough for a manufacturer to meet both ideals and spend the same time.


While I only watch HD, most of them (over 80%) are from film sources, and the remainder are television episodes. Would the Z4 still be abetter choice than the 900?

...Someone suggested in that same thread that video noise may vary from unit to unit, just like VB....I would guess this could be the case.
Ron


Must be the case since I see no noise whatsoever with my 900. In fact, I've been reading here trying to figure out what others are talking about.

I wonder if this is the same noise that I saw on both their 300 and 500. It was quite noticeable only when compared with another pj, like the HS20. Another thing I noticed was that the overall look and image on those two did not match the clarity look of the Sony - and this is where I presumed optics played a role in my decision to consider the Sony Hs20, two years ago.

Clearly, there is no winner between the Z4, AE900, and Sony HS60. One excels over the other with an attribute and then suffers from another in comparison. In hindsight:

color - AE900, Z4, HS60
contrast - Z4, HS60, AE900
sharpness - Z4, HS60, AE900
brightness - AE900, Z4/HS60
blacks - HS60, AE900, Z4
lack of sde - AE900, Z4, HS60
less noise - HS60, Z4, AE900

and among others to consider: depth, overall image, better optics, features, price, etc.

I think I'll wait till the HC3000 gets reviewed then I'll pretty much know which direction to go...

Thanks to all for posting and sharing their info.


My ranking is:

color - HS60, AE900, TW600, Z4
contrast - HS60, AE900, TW600, Z4
sharpness -HS60, Z4, AE900/TW600
brightness - AE900, Z4/HS60, TW600
blacks - HS60, AE900, TW600, Z4
lack of sde - AE900, TW600, Z4, HS60
less noise - HS60, Z4, AE900/TW600
Auto Iris effective- HS60, AE900, TW600, Z4
Auto Iris smoothness- AE900/TW600/Z4, HS60
1080i processing - Z4, HS60/AE900, TW600

Does anyone knows any Panasonic AE900 dealer in San Francisco Bay Area? I'm surprise but all the big electronics TV dealers doesnt seems to carry Panasonic projector here in the South Bay.

hey ckl, did the ae900 you reviewed have different osd lang? like english and japanese? -jeff thanks for the review,

p.s. how would you rate the new ae900 against the last years sony model hs51/50? thanks again

Yes, there are lots of languages. I prefer HS50 because of the noise issue.

Hi CKL, i have read your informative review, thanks. I am curious, you use a Hoya 81C (effectively with the two filters) on dynamic mode. However, my projector will be less than 3 metres from my 65-73" screen (not yet purchased), so i shouldnt need to use the projector on high lamp mode. Ideally i want to use it on a low lamp quiet mode. If i were to use Cinema 1 mode, would there be any benefit to me using an 81b or c Hoya MC 77mm screw in using the settings that you put up for the Cinema 1 mode.

Basically, does anyone have the magic settings for the best possible 720/750p Pal DVD movie settings. I will be using a Marantz SR7600 with a high quality 7metre QED DVI cable. Im also going to using either a Draper Hi Def screen or a Da-Lite HC CV screen. I dont mind using a filter, is an 81B Hoya 77mm MC enough? Im very interested in getting exceptional black levels and contrast, and not as concerned about brightness due to the small size of the screen (will be between 65" and 73").

Also, is the Sony VPL-HS60 much better than the AE900 fully calibrated for Contrast/Black Levels, or just a bit better?

Thanks
Chris

One other quick question, which i kind of asked above.

At the minute, any good projector should be able to provide a black level around the 1.0 Lux or lower. CKL mentioned that the Panasonic PT-AE900 had a Lux measurement of 1.0 in normal mode with the Iris activated. My PT-AE900 will be arriving in 13 days, and I will always use it with the Iris on. I am very fond of the deep blacks, and not a fan of the grey coloured blacks like on my current AE500 Panasonic. If i add a Hoya 81b or c into the equation, should i be able to get a black level of around 0.8-0.6 Lux in Cinema 1 mode fully adjusted / calibrated using the settings on the CKL review, while still maintaining a bright enough image (using Low Lamp mode) on a Hi Def Grey Draper screen or a HCCV Da-Lite screen?

If the answer is no in terms of brightness, would i be able to meet these criteria using a Cinema Vision 1.3 gain screen, or the Draper m1300 material, in a liight controlled room, with the above filter/settings?

Thanks
Chris

My ranking is:

color - HS60, AE900, TW600, Z4
contrast - HS60, AE900, TW600, Z4
sharpness -HS60, Z4, AE900/TW600
brightness - AE900, Z4/HS60, TW600
blacks - HS60, AE900, TW600, Z4
lack of sde - AE900, TW600, Z4, HS60
less noise - HS60, Z4, AE900/TW600
Auto Iris effective- HS60, AE900, TW600, Z4
Auto Iris smoothness- AE900/TW600/Z4, HS60
1080i processing - Z4, HS60/AE900, TW600

Thank you, CKL - for correcting some of these and adding TW600.

great info!

If you use CKL's ranking and add up each the H60 would get 24 points, the AE 900 23 points, The Z4 16 points & The TW600 15 points. If I am correct I would think that CKL would consider the AE900 the best value considering the price difference between the AE900 and the H60.


Using a 4 point scale.

4 Points 1, 3 points 2, 2 points 2 1 point 1.

Well, I just received my AE900 and set it up. It is replacing an Infocus Screenplay 110 (similar to the 4805) and projects onto a 100" Stewart Firehawk screen. I have it mounted on the ceiling (~7.5 ft from floor) about 17' from the screen. First impressions are that it is easy to get up and running. I LOVE the lens shift adjust feature. Menu is fairly straight forward as is the remote. Now to the picture (I am using component cables about 20' long):
Overall, this unit puts out a really nice, smooth picture with few noticible artifacts. The quality is HIGHLY dependent on the source material, even varying from DVD to DVD. HD material from the Comcast DVR was very impressive where I spent the last hour watching the World Series and College Football (in partial light to boot). In comparison to my Infocus unit, the benefits of added resolution are clearly apparent. However, the colors with the 900 aren't as deep and are suffering from a yellow bias. I haven't had the time to play around too much, but this is as viewed in normal mode before and after modest adjustment using the Avia disk. Video mode seemed slightly better while other modes appeared completely useless for my screen. As far as the blacks go (one of my concerns going from DLP to LCD), they are just fine with plenty of detail. Most notably, at last...no rainbows! I previously had this problem watching football action under DLP. Text appears better as well, most likely from the resolution step up. These are initial impressions. Clearly I need more time to fully adjust to the new unit but so far have no regrets.


hey vince2, having read your review, i gather that the ae900 wins over the 4805 in terms of resolution, but loses in color depth? how do both compare in sharpness, black levels, contrast, visible pixel structure etc. thanks!!

Just got my AE900U Friday.
I also bought a 106" GrayWolf.
I have the pj shelf mounted 6' high and 11' from the screen.
PJ hits screen dead center and I sit 12' from the screen, behind and to side of pj.
Screen is a good match if you self mount, pretty bright.
This is a really great projector!
HDTV content is amazing compaired to my older pj.
I have an older P/S DVD player.
DVDs don't look that great.
Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced DVD player to go with this pj?
Thanks.

Why not stay panasonic and go with the s97s upconverting player. It's highly rated and should look good with the 900. Check out the review on Secrets

If you use CKL's ranking and add up each the H60 would get 24 points, the AE 900 23 points, The Z4 16 points & The TW600 15 points. If I am correct I would think that CKL would consider the AE900 the best value considering the price difference between the AE900 and the H60.


Using a 4 point scale.

4 Points 1, 3 points 2, 2 points 2 1 point 1.

I'd say ... one would have to weigh these factors. The weight would be subjective I guess ...

While I only watch HD, most of them (over 80%) are from film sources, and the remainder are television episodes. Would the Z4 still be abetter choice than the 900?

I would think the Panny because film is progressive (as is most TV) and the color on the Panny is really wonderful.

It seems the Z4 appears "sharper" than the 900 which may give HD live (sports, reality, documentaries shot in 1080i) more "snap" and "3D" but probably make film sources noisier. Plus, the color processing and fast auto iris seem to work better on film sources.

Of course, I could say more if I had a Z4 to compare, but no idea.

Hi there,

My AE900 arrived on saturday, here in switzerland. I would like to share my initial impressions, from a non technical point of view. I am upgrading from an ae300.

From the outside, the ae300 is significantly larger than the ae300, with a much larger lens. The overall finish seems cheaper than the ae300, not quite as well made, somewhat more like it is made more economically, with cheap plastic. it looks modern compared to my ae300, but not quite as posh. i always thought that the ae300 looked kinda retro style. im undecided whether any of this is good or bad, im just pointing out a few things.

the remote control is obviously a lot more complex than the last generation. it glows very brightly as well, which is nice. the directional pad is not brilliant however, when i press "down" it often confuses it with right or left, for example. this is a bit of a pain. overall, its much cooler than the ae300 remote, and being a learning remote, im sure it will come in useful for a lot of people. however, i recently bought a logitech harmony 885 remote control to control everything. this is such a good item, that i will not really be needing the ae900 remote much, if at all.

before i get onto anything else, there is one problem with my ae900 i want to mention. although the fan is quieter in low lamp mode than the ae300, it also emits a high pitched whining sound which is rather unsettling. i wouldnt say that the whine is loud at all, but is is audible from a few metres away from the projector, and it was getting on my nerves already..... any other owners hear this? im hoping that this noise will go away very soon, otherwise i might have to try and return the item, which is a bit harder to do over here in switzerland. the ae300 fan noise was not a problem for me, so naturally the ae900 fan noise is not a problem, but a high pitched whining sound IS a problem for me. its really not what i want to hear when im listening to a movie. sure, i can obly hear it in quiet scenes, but that is still enough of a problem to really worry me. any views anyone?

ok, ae900 has lens shift, ae300 did not. i like the lens shift. more or less, it allows me to position the image a bit lower on my wall than i could easily do with the ae300, and subsequently, i can have a larger image, more comfortably. its definitely a great thing to have lens shift. the image seems to be projected quite low without it, though, compared to my ae300, meaning that even though i have quite a high shelf, i still need to push the image up with the lens shift, quite a bit. i noted that projector central said that it would be fine to run this pj in normal lamp mode, rather than low. i disagree, the fan was pretty loud with the normal mode. so its in low lamp mode, like my ae300 was.

next up, laymans view of picture quality. i always wondered how this would be, and whenever i asked, i was sceptical of the tired old comment, "the difference is night and day". i never subscribed to that. so, how did it work out. well, initially, i was a little let down. the difference is not night and day to me. at first, i found that subtitles looked less clear, and that the brightness of the projector led to a slightly washed out image (no dount due to the fact that the new projector is brighter than my 1000 hour ae300, and that im projecting onto a white wall). however, after a few hours of viewing, i began to be able to appreciate the picture quality a bit more. im running component cables from a samsung hd950 (my hdmi cable should arrive in the next few days). the samsung upconverts to 720p, which i found the most pleasing to the eye.

anyhow, at first i couldnt see a big difference, but after i while i was more and more pleased with the image. the blacks are deeper, the colours vibrant, and sharpness not bad at all. i think it helps to run the image from an upconverting player in this respect. i am still a bit wary about subtitles (i normally watch films with subtitles) being a bit smudgy, but that might have been a problem specific to the two dvd's that i have so far watched.

i should remind you that these are only inital impressions, based on watching about 4 hours of lamptime.

as i write i just got a message from the shop where i bought it. he said that the whining sound might be caused by production oils needing a bit of time to disappear or something. sounds reasonable enough, he said just to let him know if it gets better or not.

menu system is much updated in the ae900. much better and more presentable than the ae300. you even have three choices as to the transparency/colour of the menu, and can choose its on screen position.

i have to admit, i feel a wave of nostalgia for my ae300... my first projector and such a source of joy to me. but without the whine, i think the ae900 will see me through the next few years, especially when hdtv finally arrives here, or at least when my xbox 360 arrives.

any questions, let me know!

krlock2

edit: just thought of something else. the dynamic iris reconfigures the image for best contrast every 1/60th of a second. i feel sure tha i can see this going on, and im really not sure i like it at all... you see the image change very quickly and it doesnt seem that natural to me... i think i will turn this feature off, in all likelihood.

edit2: i didnt see VB on my ae300, i dont see it on the ae900.

edit3: for those coming from an ae300, the image size can be made much smaller and also a bit larger with the 2.0x zoom. very flexible..... small image (like 40 inchs) looks sooo small though, compared to what this thing can do.... and makes me happy over all those 40 inch flat screen owners. (i have 32 inch flat screen).

Ahhh....I love having the htx setup...I don't even know that there is a hurricane right outside my window here in Florida! Great time to catch up on movies!

>the samsung upconverts to 720p, which i found the most pleasing to the eye.

I hear a lot of members talking a lot about upscaling a 480i image to a 720p...being that I have never seen that I wonder just how you can get more from less. I would like to see HD-DVD when that starts to pick-up.


When you trun on the 900 do you get two clicks before the splash screen? Just wondering b/c I do. Just want to know if that was normal.

>the dynamic iris reconfigures the image for best contrast every 1/60th of a second.

I also see that happening...yes it is quick but I really don't see a difference so I turn it off. Along with NR and the Cinema feature.

56h so far on the lamp and I would say my complaints would be with the bottom of edge is not straight prob due to the lens shift adj, with the blue vb that I see...I only see a minior impovement with the panel adj. I made adj to the flicker (green really picky) and when the pj is started up, the flicker is there but it goes away when the lamp is warmed up. Can anyone tell me what that "525i SD" setting means? I have included two pictures of the blue only VB effect and the up-curve in the bottom edge of the projected image.

Steve.

htx steve,

the pj makes a few odd noises upon startup, but the instruction manual says this is normal.

as for the continuous high pitched whine that i get, i dont think thats normal and i hope it goes away soon.

re upscaling dvd player, the difference between that and my admittedly old sony dav s550 system is way clear. i dont like to say night and day cause i dont like that phrase, but on things like film credits and opening credits, the difference is plain to see.

krlock2

Lots of threads both here and in the HTPC forum arguing the benefits and detriments of upscaling... so let's not rehash it again ;)

Just a comment related in kind to the PT-AE900. Im receiving mine on Saturday 5th november as stated before, and in the meantime i am testing various different screens with my PT-AE500. So far i have tested Carada's 1.4 Gain Matte White, their 1.1 gain Matte White and their grey 0.8 screen. The difference in contrast is pretty stark between the 3 screens. I also have Draper High Def Grey and M1300 to test as well as Da-Lite HCCV, CV and Grey.

The 0.8 gain grey screen from Carada gives a lot better black levels than the other two, in a fully darkened room. This is clearly evident to all who viewed it. The whites are not as pure bright white, and in fact do a look a tad saturated, but everything has a warmer, more film like image in my opinion.

Also, after reading reviews on the PT-AE900 and filters with this projector in particular, i tried out a few filters with my PT-AE500. I used Cokin P multi-coated filters. Firstly i used an 81A filter, which made a bit of a difference to the brightness of the image, and a bit of the difference to black levels. It also seemed to help unbias the projectors tendency towards bluish tints. This was further enhanced with the 81C which gave much darkend blacks, same contrast and overall duller image. For me, on the grey screen, and with the 81C filter, the image was still bright enough and the blacks were a lot better. Many people i think will suffer will larger screens though as mine was only around 65" and projecting from 8 feet. The projector does have circa 550 hours on it.

Once i receive the Panasonic PT-AE900, i have a board around 6feet long by 3 feet high which i will attach the various samples on to and attempt to take a photo for you. I will do shots with and without a filter attached, and use both the 81a and 81c seperately.

Also, anyone who has taken photos of their screen, roughly what settings did you use on the camera. I have a digital Pro 1 Canon which will allow me to adjust everything. Whats the best setting to use to give the most realistic impressions of the screen?

Chris

I am observing a problem with my new projector (AE900). It happens only occassionally. Most of the times, it works fine.

Here is the problem. If the projector is in standby mode, if I switch on the power (using remote control or directly on the projector) it does not display video. Instead of a bright screen a very faint blue screen is displayed with no video. Even the projector menu will not appear if I press the menu button. The problem is not solved if I power off (means put to stand by mode) and power on.

If I do a hard power off (using the rear power swich) or disconnect the power cord and start again everything returns to normal.


I faced this problem four times in last three days during normal operation.

The projector is used for less than two weeks and has less than 20 hours on the lamp.

I am really concerned whether this symptom will develop into a serious problem in future.

Raghu

I had that happen to me once...In my case, the pj would not turn on without a reset of the power switch...I will try to remember what I did before that. I was giving a demo at the time... :-(

Have you ever tested this projector with a Da-Lite High contrast cinema vision screen? I heard about sparkles problems, am I wrong?
I want to buy one, but first I want to know the opinion of those who have tested.

Is there any dvd player (hdmi) that looks great with this projector? I mean no MB!
How does this projector handle 1080p content?
How long is the power cord?

Thank you.

I haven't watched a 900 on a HCCV screen, but I've watched a 700 and 500 on one and saw no problems with sparklies. Out of the half dozen or so screens I've seen an ae700 on, the only one I did see spaklies on was a Vutec silver screen. I wouldn't think the 900 would be any different in this regard.

I can post direct links now.
Review Sanyo Z4 vs Panasonic 900 on a dutch forum.

http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=35753.0

You can use this site for a translation

http://www.freetranslation.com/free/web.htm

What I want is Cine4home's review....

I'm mainly interested in getting the best gray scale which leads to best flesh tones and colors, and usually involves some changes to the r.b.g bias and gain settings. I've rarely read a projector review in a magazine that seems to mandate the use of external filters.
......

I would be interested to read comparisons of these new projectors without any filtering for all.

Shelly

The usage of filters doesn't negate the possibility of a properly balanced grey scale. PJ bulbs are typically UHP which are RED deficient which means that the RED primary amp is usually driven harder than the Gr or Bl to achieve proper colour balance. Utilizing the Red filter allows for a more balanced drive of the primary amps. To fully utilize it, you need modes that are bright enough such that with the filter you can get enough lumens to illuminate a screen to the 12 to 16 Ft Lamberts that are recommended for film viewing.

The outcome is that you are able to achieve lower black levels without clipping, and hence CR gains as CKL's results prove. Note that some PJs already ship with a filter as part of the optical path.

ted

When you trun on the 900 do you get two clicks before the splash screen? Just wondering b/c I do. Just want to know if that was normal.

This is the Iris going through self calibration. I would assume its finding its end stops.

>the dynamic iris reconfigures the image for best contrast every 1/60th of a second.

I also see that happening...yes it is quick but I really don't see a difference so I turn it off. Along with NR and the Cinema feature.

Steve.

Have you done a Black/White calibration with DVE or AVIA?

The Cinema is utilized for 3:2 pulldown (deinterlacing) with film material. If you are sending progressive from your DVD player this would be bypassed, I'd recommend you leave it in AUTO.

ted

krlock2, thanks for your review. Earlier in this thread I posted my initial review and it was, like yours, of mixed feelings. I didn't receive a single comment in regard to my post. I also agree with you regarding the term "night and day". This projector is an improvement on projectors of the past few generations, but in no way can I make the comment "night and day".

Also, in regards to HDMI connections and upconverting DVD players. I had several local home theater "experts" at my house this past Sunday. We experimented with upconversions and component vs. HDMI. We were a mixed group as to what the preference might be. This, again, leaves me feeling that the term "improvement" is very much in the eye of the beholder. At the very best, we all agreed that any differences were slight.

We did use Avia to calibrate. We used the "Normal" setting, and found that for brightness, contrast, hue and tint that all settings ended up being very close to zero. brightness was at -4, the rest were at the most +/- 2. We did bump the contrast and brightness down on the red by -1.

I do continue to be more and more pleased with the purchase as time goes on (currently at 30 hours).

hey vince2, having read your review, i gather that the ae900 wins over the 4805 in terms of resolution, but loses in color depth? how do both compare in sharpness, black levels, contrast, visible pixel structure etc. thanks!!

One of the main strengths I have found with this unit is the ability to make all kinds of color adjustments. I must say that now I've had time to do some adjusting, I have ZERO problems with the color its producing. I don't know if it is due to the bulb ripening, the adjustments made, or my perception changing. The depth is perfect with HD material. A little flat (as expected) with SD. Compared to my Infocus unit, the AE900 does an equal or better job with respect to sharpness, black levels and brightness. Oh yeah, and with less visible pixel structure. There is no annoying long pause for signal searching when switching from SD to HD material (as the Infocus did). The fan is less noisy than the Infocus, but I can still hear it above me (it is not as quiet as some have commented). The remote is good, but I use an MX700 and found the file on remotecentral for the AE700 works very well (90% of the commands work without modification). One thing though, I feel the on board image processing on the Infocus unit is better when it comes to dealing with SD material. Hope this helps.

before i get onto anything else, there is one problem with my ae900 i want to mention. although the fan is quieter in low lamp mode than the ae300, it also emits a high pitched whining sound which is rather unsettling.

That is not normal - consider a return or repair. My fan is so quiet in Cinema 1 mode that 4 people watching a movie with projector on a coffee table right next to them and they were not sure it was on.

edit: just thought of something else. the dynamic iris reconfigures the image for best contrast every 1/60th of a second. i feel sure tha i can see this going on, and im really not sure i like it at all... you see the image change very quickly and it doesnt seem that natural to me... i think i will turn this feature off, in all likelihood.

I have not seen this effect and I can easily seen rainbow or other 1/60th or faster effects (I have to keep my Computer CRT's refreshed at 85hz or higher) and wonder if it is source/settings related (i.e. PAL vs NTSC or some other issue).

What exactly to do "see" that you conclude is the auto-iris?

Compared to my Infocus unit, the AE900 does an equal or better job with respect to sharpness, black levels and brightness. Oh yeah, and with less visible pixel structure. There is no annoying long pause for signal searching when switching from SD to HD material (as the Infocus did). The fan is less noisy than the Infocus, but I can still hear it above me (it is not as quiet as some have commented). .

What model of Infocus are you comparing this to?

Whats the general stats on vertical banding so far from what can be gathered by people in this thread?

Are the AE900 units better on averaga than the previous AEx00 units? The same? Worse?

:)

What model of Infocus are you comparing this to?

Sorry, it was in another thread that I mentioned it is an Infocus Screenplay 110. This unit (848x600 native and Faroudja DCDi deinterlacing) is similar to the 4800 series. It produces a great picture, but these early models are plagued with hardware failures. I've had main board and power supply replaced twice since I've owned it and there are numerous similar reports by others. They seemed to have fixed these problems with the revamped 4800's. Once again, I've encountered a new power related problem, hence the replacement with the AE900.

I doubt it, but is there any difference between the japanese verison of the AE900 and the US one in terms of quality?

Thanks

Quality? No. Other differences? Yes.

Oriphus,
i'm considering da lite cinema vision - as i'm going for big 2.6m wide pictire and have very good light control.

how this material looks to you?

Add me to the list of new AE-900 buyers! (first time PJ owner!)

Will probably be a few days for me to get the old CRT widescreen out of the way and the Gray Wolf hung.

I'm both nervous and excited, this is triple the price of any TV I have ever owned, despite getting a REALLY generous discount from a local chain, well below any online prices, shocked the hell out of me actually.

In the end, it was a tough decision between this and the Z3, not the Z4 as you might expect. ROne and SaintHalo's perfecting of the Z3s calibration and a $600 savings on the Z3 were on one side and the complete absence of SDE on the 900 were on the other. Basically it came down to me wanting the latest and greatest, and not wanting ANY SDE. Time will tell if I chose wisely, we shall see. Worst comes to worst I will be off to Ebay and someone else will get a good deal.

Sam

Quality? No. Other differences? Yes.

Is it true that this Panasonic has an english option in the menus unlike previous models? That's what seemed to be implied by CKL...

I just looked into this.. apparently if its from japan they lock out the Eng OSD.. but if it comes out of Asia it can be turned on.. so it all depends on where the projector has been exported from.. atleast thats what I think. Theres so many options in the menus ive opted to just go on and get a US model as I know the chinese would drive me NUTS.

Hmm. That's too bad. Wonder how hard it would be to translate...

htx steve, others with mild vb,

I looked at two and purchased one, they were nearly identical in what I previewed

mild vb in still or horizontal panning is visible sometimes

very very low while veiwing, and then only if I concentrate on a particular section of "the sky" for instance

I've been viewing HD since 2001 on a finely tuned 56h80 /w HTPC and I certainly think the picture I'm seeing is excellent! Not just the size, but the quality

I can't see vb 99.9% of the time, I can think of allot of other defects or short comings in displays that make me very happy to have this one :D

Darryl

I can't understand why are they selling projectors with vb! If there are perfect units, panasonic should be more serious with the production. In my case, I'm asking the seller to open the box and check the projector himself before sending it to my house.

Quick update on my 900 issues/VB/etc ---

Still waiting on feedback from Panasonic via my vendor regarding their VB policy for the 900. The vendor offered for me to send it in for them to look at, but they were hesitant to guarantee a replacement unless they could really see the difference and feel that panasonic would accept the unit back from them as a return. This is a top vendor that advertises on AVS forum; I'm a bit disappointed that they are not taking it back no questions asked.

In the meantime, I've put about 30 hours on the lamp. At this point the VB has diminished ever so slightly I'd say, particularly on the Blue panel, but its still noticeable much too often in general use.

This evening I took my PJ to my Father-in-law's house who also purchased a 900 on my recommendation; we unboxed his and ran them side by side projecting onto some unfinished drywall at about 125" diagonal. There were indeed some subtle variations between the two units:

Mine -- vb was noticeable periodically when watching MN football
His - NO vb detected at all; on the Green screen panel adjust menu I could pick up the slightest little bit of vb/noise when standing a few feet from the screen, but overall it was thankfully not an issue.

When comparing side by side, his unit was also just a touch sharper, it was subtle, but he was able to see the difference as well in the menus as we sat 20 feet away. Looking closely at the pixel structure, it was slightly more defined on his and mine looked a touch defocused no matter what we did. Subtle, but when you know it can be better, you want the best!

On the blue 'no signal' screen, it was aparrent that his blue color was also slightly darker....more saturated. Likewise, when projecting total black his was ever so slightly darker....

Both had slight misconvergence based upon where the lens shift was; neither was perfect, although again I thought his was slightly better in the position that I would normally use.

Needless to say all these things add up, and overall the image on his looked a touch sharper and definitely free of VB for all intents and purposes...

The subtle darker look to the panels I think may be key in explaining why some of the video noise/vb/mosquito is less apparrent on his unit.

Ok...made it though the hurricane by watching Lord of the Rings! Just one word...magical! I did watch "sleepy hollow" and found that the iris control and the NR did make the picture better but on the LOTR's I took all of it off...that movie is just done so well picture wise.

Onto VB...the panel adj does work but not enough...like you said...very slight...still this pj kicks butt! Add in the killer sound system and you are back at the one word...magical! I just love listening to movies done in DTS ES 6.1 Discrete...Top Gun and LOTR's are just awesome!

I think I have given up for the time being on adding the adj masking. Just way to much of a pain.

Can anyone tell me what that "525i SD" setting means? Also what does the special setting do as compared to normal?

Steve.

krlock2, thanks for your review. Earlier in this thread I posted my initial review and it was, like yours, of mixed feelings. I didn't receive a single comment in regard to my post. I also agree with you regarding the term "night and day". This projector is an improvement on projectors of the past few generations, but in no way can I make the comment "night and day".

Also, in regards to HDMI connections and upconverting DVD players. I had several local home theater "experts" at my house this past Sunday. We experimented with upconversions and component vs. HDMI. We were a mixed group as to what the preference might be. This, again, leaves me feeling that the term "improvement" is very much in the eye of the beholder. At the very best, we all agreed that any differences were slight.

We did use Avia to calibrate. We used the "Normal" setting, and found that for brightness, contrast, hue and tint that all settings ended up being very close to zero. brightness was at -4, the rest were at the most +/- 2. We did bump the contrast and brightness down on the red by -1.

I do continue to be more and more pleased with the purchase as time goes on (currently at 30 hours).

thanks for your comments as well. im sorry that i didnt see your earlier post.

like you, the more i use the new machine, the happier i am (apart from the noise, which i find intrusive. the whining noise i talked about, that is).

i should clarify that i could see a big difference between my normal dvd player and upconverting player when used with the ae300. with the ae900, i of course simply use the upconverting player. it may be that the ae900 handles scaling very well, and thats why you dont see much difference. i should receive my hdmi cable today (have been using component). hopefully that will be even better, although im sure it wont be "night and day" hehe.

krlock2

That is not normal - consider a return or repair. My fan is so quiet in Cinema 1 mode that 4 people watching a movie with projector on a coffee table right next to them and they were not sure it was on.



I have not seen this effect and I can easily seen rainbow or other 1/60th or faster effects (I have to keep my Computer CRT's refreshed at 85hz or higher) and wonder if it is source/settings related (i.e. PAL vs NTSC or some other issue).

What exactly to do "see" that you conclude is the auto-iris?

thanks for your comments steven. i used the projector last night and the noise was still intrusive but a little less so. i will continue to monitor the situation. perhaps the pj is still warming up, as it only has 5 hours on the clock. nice vibrant picture though, wow. after 1000 hours on the ae300, you dont really realise how dim the picture becomes over time.

re the auto iris, i am not absolutely making a conclusion, but when i watch material where there are often changes between light and dark scenes, i see a "sudden" change in contrast over the whole screen, which happens very quickly but is noticeable in a way that wasnt with my last projector. i kinda assume that this is the auto iris, but i havent tested by turning it off and replaying a scene yet. its not a big problem, its just something i noticed and if it continues to be noticeable i might simply turn off the auto iris feature.
thanks
krlock2

Oriphus,
i'm considering da lite cinema vision - as i'm going for big 2.6m wide pictire and have very good light control.

how this material looks to you?

The material itself looks fine to me. Not as thick as the Draper m1300, but still feels like a decent material. I have to say that on thickness and the old quality feel factor, the Draper m1300 wins it, but maybe its because that screen has to be tensioned quite tightly.

On terms of image quality, the two are very comparable. Both are good bright screens, with no hot spots as far as i can tell. Both have a decent viewing angle of atleast 45 degrees off centre, which is all i really looked it.

I did notice, that even in a completely black room, the contrast on the Da-Lite Cinema Vision and the Draper m1300, made my blacks look kind of grey, but then this was with an AE500. In stark contrast, the Drpaer High Def Grey and the Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision both enabled much deeper blacks, without making any real difference in the level of detail. Also, both the high contrast screens and the 1.3 gain screens, all seemed to display the colours pretty well.

If you are going to get the CV or m1300, have a look at a Cokin P filter in 81B or 81C and although they cut out light, they do give much better contrast and blacks, but do make the overall picture darker. I firmly think its more cinema like with the filter on.

Chris

Thx Chris,

yes, i guess that HCCV gives better blacks and contrast - i just afraid that after 150 hours, when lamp's ligh outputs drops, the picture will be too dark.
mind you - i'm talking about screen 260cm wide and almost 120" in diagonal.....

Quick update on my 900 issues/VB/etc ---
Both had slight misconvergence based upon where the lens shift was; neither was perfect, although again I thought his was slightly better in the position that I would normally use.the video noise/vb/mosquito is less apparrent on his unit.

For those of you with an AE900, how far off is the convergence? 1/4 pixel? 1/2 pixel? 1 pixel? More?

Thx Chris,

yes, i guess that HCCV gives better blacks and contrast - i just afraid that after 150 hours, when lamp's ligh outputs drops, the picture will be too dark.
mind you - i'm talking about screen 260cm wide and almost 120" in diagonal.....

Yeah, it is a case of doing a Cost/Benefit analysis as such with regards to what to sacrifice and what not to. Obviously Lumen output is a big factor for you with a 120" Diagonal, as opposed to my 73" (most likely) Diagonal. I suppose what you could do if you get a Cinema Vision screen from Da-Lite, is attach a Cokin P 81a or 81b to the front of the lens. I probably wouldnt go to an 81c since this reduces the brightness of the image quite considerably. Then when you feel that your light is starting fade slightly, you could remove the filter and revert back to a standard image.

Of course, if you run the projector on high mode, in Dynamic, and attach the filter, you may be able to use a HC Cinema Vision.

Your other choice of course would be something like the Vutec Silverstar with a very high gain, and with a grey top coat to give both contrast and brightness. Its more expensive, and it has a diminshed viewing angle, but it might do?

Chris

Sorry for the bad pun but I've got a decision to make. I own a AE700 and have now received two AE900s. In all three cases, there is some amount of vertical "streaking" visible. I don't think this is classic VB as it is not regular and completely even. On the 700, you can put up the grey test pattern available in the service menu and see it fairly clearly, on both 900s, a 60IRE Avia screen shows it up fairly well.
This is quite onvious to me but for other people to see it, I have to point it out. The effect can be more redily seen if you move the projected image side to side using lens shift. When you do this, the movement makes the streaks more obvious but does not actually change them in any way.
When watching movies, this effect can be seen on skies, deserts, snowscapes etc. I've seen mention of a problem called FPN (FNP?) and this may be what I'm seeing. I've read a post here where someone described it as looking as though you're looking through a window with streaks of rainfall coming down. This is a reasonable accurate description of the streaking and its size and shape altrhough there is no distortion, just a subtle difference in shading.
The Panel (on the 900) adjustment can be used to introduce readily visible VB but does not seem to affect this artifact in any way.
The dealer, a respected AVS sponser, thinks that the first 900 I returned looks great. His viewpoint is that all projectors suffer from this to some degree and that it's unreasonable to expect perfection. Indeed I was looking at one of our presentation projectors at work and when projecting a solid screen, could detect a similar problem.
So, to those who own 700s or 900s, can you try my test? Project a medium grey image and shift the image left to right. Can you see streaks in the image? Do they all do this?
I need to decide if I will return the 900 so any responses would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

Sorry if this has been asked before but, what is the lamp life in low mode on this PJ?

I just picked one of these bad boys up as a 2nd pj and haven't been able to confirm the lamp life.

Ddog!!

I currently own a Sony HS51 and am going to get either a Panasonic 900 or the Sanyo Z4. I know this dead horse has been beaten, but which one would you guys recommend. From what I have read I should maybe toss a coin. There are tradeoffs to both, but if it were your money....what would you do???? Any help would be greatly appreciated from some experts :)

I am projecting on a Stewart Greyhawk screen 92" at a distance of 13 feet. Total light control in the room.

I currently own a Sony HS51 and am going to get either a Panasonic 900 or the Sanyo Z4. I know this dead horse has been beaten, but which one would you guys recommend. From what I have read I should maybe toss a coin. There are tradeoffs to both, but if it were your money....what would you do???? Any help would be greatly appreciated from some experts :)

I am projecting on a Stewart Greyhawk screen 92" at a distance of 13 feet. Total light control in the room.

A question I would ask is what does either of these units offer that the 51 does not ? Perhaps those answers might help narrow your choices.

ted

Sorry if this has been asked before but, what is the lamp life in low mode on this PJ?

I just picked one of these bad boys up as a 2nd pj and haven't been able to confirm the lamp life.

Ddog!!

Apparently its 2000hrs high lamp/Iris off. 3000 hours High lamp/Iris On, and the manual is ambiguous about low lamp. It merely says, "lamp life can be extended beyond 3000hrs by running Low lamp" or words to that effect.

First off it must be noted that the AE300 manual actually quoted both high and low lamp figures, ie. 2000 high lamp and 5000 hours Low Lamp. I also seem to remember when the AE500 was launched that the promotional material quoted 3000/6000 which I was impressed by although I don't know if that was a mistake or even printed in the manual.

Then all of a sudden Panasonic stop quoting Low Lamp figures but allude to the bulbs lasting longer. Why?? Well my theory is that with all the premature bulb failures, they got sick of people demanding bulb replacements out of warranty because, "These things are supposed to last 5000hrs buddy!" The consumers weren't wrong to say that either, after all it was printed in the promotional material and manuals. Panasonic just took the easy way out and took out any definitive mention of low lamp bulb hours from the manuals and promo material. "Hey if we don't tell them their bulb can last 5000-6000 hours in low lamp, they can't complain to us when it doesn't!"

I can't say that they are right or wrong either. I know the bulbs can last at least 5000 hours because both of my AE300 bulbs actually have! (well 9970hrs before I broke my AE300 by dropping a part of it) So the 5000hours figure they used to quote wasn't wrong or impossible. Its just that they didn't mention that to get there, one should reduce the effects of heat on the lifespan of the bulb by running High Fan, and one should minimise unnecessary on/off cycles etc Rather than mention that, they just decided to mention nothing at all!

Unfortunately I can only base this opinion on my own experience as I haven't come across any one else here or on any other forum who has done 10000 hours from 2 bulbs on their AE300's. Actually come to think of it I don't think I've come across any AE100 owners who've even hit 5000hours yet never mind AE300 owners! :D :D

Anyway, I'll let you know whether AE900's can hit 5000-6000hours when I've had mine about 14 months. :D

<<Apparently its 2000hrs high lamp/Iris off. 3000 hours High lamp/Iris On>>

I think I saw these figures posted earlier, and they struck me as curious:

If the lamp is in "High" mode in either case, how/why would simply turning the auto-iris on affect bulb performance?

Maybe it has to do with lamp modulation that occurs in conjunction with the iris being engaged, but, even then, it seems that a steady state would be more conducive to long life than a fluxuating state...

(What the heck am I missing?)

Meanwhile...maybe I missed mention of it (I THINK I've read every single post in this thread since it began!), but has any timeframe been mentioned for Cine4Home's review?

Thx.

These are some shots of my 900

144" / 2.4:1 black out cloth screen
projecting from 18'
out of the box , low power

pictures were taken from 10'


the image is much nicer live, :D

Wow, Stowey, 144" is a large screen!

It's nice to see Pict3309--i.e. the computer text. From what I can tell, it looks sharp enough for me. I was worried that the smoothscreen would result in too soft an image for computer use...

one more :p

Maybe it has to do with lamp modulation that occurs in conjunction with the iris being engaged, but, even then, it seems that a steady state would be more conducive to long life than a fluxuating state...

I think these lamps are getting resynced all the time anyway and it would seem from these numbers that Panasonic feels that modulating the lamp does not reduce lamp life over keeping it on high, but increases the life overall.

--Darin

I should note;

none of the interference pattern(\\\\\),

is actually seen,

it must be the pattern in the material,

the actual image is excellent,

pc looks fantastic, (actually nicer, much nicer, compared to a monitor),

Hi,

Does anyone have a link or can you mail me a photo copy of the AE900 English manual. I will pay you for one. Panasonic will have them in stock November 12th for $8.46, but I need one now... Email me at sbarger@cfl.rr.com thx..Steve

I currently own a Sony HS51 and am going to get either a Panasonic 900 or the Sanyo Z4. I know this dead horse has been beaten, but which one would you guys recommend. From what I have read I should maybe toss a coin. There are tradeoffs to both, but if it were your money....what would you do???? Any help would be greatly appreciated from some experts :)

I am projecting on a Stewart Greyhawk screen 92" at a distance of 13 feet. Total light control in the room.

Are you downgrading from a HS51 to a AE900 ???

I had both units on loan in my apartment last week, after I had sold my AE500 the week before.

HS51 or 50 here in HK, was clearly a better projector over the AE900 in way of sharpness, lesser picture noise, almost no VB n FBN, n finally a deeper blackness. That's why I am eagerly waiting for the arrival of HS60, which suppose to have a even better contrast.

Again, the above is my 2 cents !!!

I currently own a Sony HS51 and am going to get either a Panasonic 900 or the Sanyo Z4. I know this dead horse has been beaten, but which one would you guys recommend. From what I have read I should maybe toss a coin. There are tradeoffs to both, but if it were your money....what would you do???? Any help would be greatly appreciated from some experts :)

I am projecting on a Stewart Greyhawk screen 92" at a distance of 13 feet. Total light control in the room.

I have a 900, and have demo'd the HS51. I feel the HS51 has a slightly better picture, but much more screendoor. The 900 is clearly brighter, but in a light controlled room that may not be a concern. Getting rid of the screendoor would be the only reason I could see for changing, and to me wouldn't be worth the cost.

For those of you with an AE900, how far off is the convergence? 1/4 pixel? 1/2 pixel? 1 pixel? More?

It varies from 1/2 to 2 pixels..with one being an average. Its easiest to detect with the onscreen menus as the text is narrow and white, but its also evident in ordinary pictures and text. The lens shift amount also appears to affect it --- one direction blue might be off, another way it may be red or even a combination of two.

From a seating position it is evident as a slight softening of text and details...

Given that it changes with the lens shift, I'm suprised there isn't an electronic repair that would shift each panel's output by a pixel in any direction...much like using the horizontal or vertical shifts...

If 13ft. away from a 16x9 92" screen, it will be 2X distance, n I don't think you should see screendoor. I was 12ft. away from a 90" screen, no screendoor at all.

HS51 or 50 here in HK, was clearly a better projector over the AE900 in way of sharpness, lesser picture noise, almost no VB n FBN, n finally a deeper blackness. That's why I am eagerly waiting for the arrival of HS60, which suppose to have a even better contrast.
Did these projectors have very different white levels? The reason I ask is because more ft-lamberts by themselves can give more picture noise even if nothing coming from the projector has changed and at the same on/off CR the projector with the brighter white would have the brighter black (but this could easily be rectified with the brighter projector). Basically, equalizing the ft-lamberts is reasonably important for figuring out whether things like artifact visibility are due to the differences in ft-lamberts (which are a combination of projector, screen, and/or filters) or something only about the projectors.

--Darin

Quick question,

the Hoya 77mm 81C lens that CLK has in his review, i've searched for it and came across 4 different versions (of the same thing?) on b&h, can someone point out which is the one i'd want for the pan900?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=22449&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=147879&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=147878&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=22448&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Thanks!

I'm sure this has been asked already but I can't find it for the life of me.

Does anyone know if the 900 will accept 480i over HDMI?

RCN_Moose -- According to the AE700 manual, the answer is no - you can't get 480i over HDMI. The 480i signal is considered to be an analog signal only. I would assume the AE900 is the same.

BTW, I don't think there are any sources that provide 480i signals on their HDMI outputs, since that signal is not in the HDMI spec.

Didn't CKL feel that the Sony HS61 was the best unit he tested but that the Panasonic 900 was the best projector for the money?

CT_Wiebe, thanks I knew the 700 doesn't, I'm hoping that the 900 can. The PIO Elite 74TXVi passes the OSD in 480i, if the 900 can't accept it, it means I need to run another cable for OSD which would be less than ideal.

ok, i have has the ae900 since saturday, and have used it for a few hours every day... it is now wednesday. im sorry to report that i still get a high pitched whining sound in addition to the normal fan noise. this specific noise is much more annoying that a normal fan noise, because although it is by no means loud, it is audible in an annoying way from my sitting position 2m away from the projector, during quiet scenes.

i think that unless it goes away in the next day or two, the projector will have to go back.

krlock2

edit: i also did a comparison between my ae300 and the ae900 both on low lamp mode, and the fan noise of the ae900 with louder and less comfortable, in addition to the whining whistle sound. not a good sign for me, i am afraid.

Did these projectors have very different white levels? The reason I ask is because more ft-lamberts by themselves can give more picture noise even if nothing coming from the projector has changed and at the same on/off CR the projector with the brighter white would have the brighter black (but this could easily be rectified with the brighter projector). Basically, equalizing the ft-lamberts is reasonably important for figuring out whether things like artifact visibility are due to the differences in ft-lamberts (which are a combination of projector, screen, and/or filters) or something only about the projectors.

--Darin

I did use the THX Optimizer to adjust the white level on both units to avoid any blooming. Even though I did not have a light meter to measure them, I believe they are both at 35 foot-lamberts.

Did you have a chance to watch the HS50 or 51 before your purchase of AE900 ?

Quick question,

the Hoya 77mm 81C lens that CLK has in his review, i've searched for it and came across 4 different versions (of the same thing?) on b&h, can someone point out which is the one i'd want for the pan900?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=22449&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=147879&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=147878&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=22448&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Thanks!

One is Multi Coated. By the way, the bottom two are not 77mm, they are 72mm

Didn't CKL feel that the Sony HS61 was the best unit he tested but that the Panasonic 900 was the best projector for the money?

Yeah, i think it gets forgotten by some people in here that the Sony costs a fair bit more than the Panasonic. Its like comparing an Optoma H77 to a top of the range Sim2 Single chipper and saying "the Sim2 has the far better picture, i compared them". Well at $4k more, thats not a surprise now is it?

Are you downgrading from a HS51 to a AE900 ???...
...HS51 or 50 here in HK, was clearly a better projector over the AE900 in way of sharpness, lesser picture noise, almost no VB n FBN, n finally a deeper blackness.

I wouldnt call it a downgrade, in fact i doubt anyone would. I had a Demo of a HS51 in a local Sony store, and although the picture was very good, it had so much screen door effect that it became a definite no for me. I saw some VB on it, but to be honest, it didnt bother me much. The AE900 should also have less VB. I also dont think that the Sony HS51 blacks would be much different when compared with a fully calibrated AE900. I believe the HS-60 would be a lot better in terms of black levels and probably picture, but...is it worth the substantial extra money for a projector that apparently has a slow Iris, less brightness and a hell of a lot of Screen Door. VB and FPN are not an issue with either.

The Panasonic will win the Performance for money factor everytime, and thats what the majority of us are after. Don't get me wrong, i think the HS60 sounds excellent, but since i project onto a 73" screen from aroun 8 feet and only sit about 6 feet from the screen, SDE is a major factor for me. If they were both the same price, i think i would still choose the HS60 (even though its not out yet lol).

Chris

contacted the supplier regarding the whining noise problem that i have.

he says that a refund or replacement is not possible... it will have to go to panasonic for them to decide if repair or replacement is in order.

i hate this because i can bearly stand to live with a new product which is faulty. it just seems wrong when it is brand new.

as im living in switzerland and not a native and dont speak the language perfectly, i have been unable to find out what the swiss law says about this... anyone have an idea if im legally entitled to a refund or replacement (i want a replacement as im not otherwise unhappy with the projector).

krlock2.-

in addition to my noise problem, i also noticed last night that this projector runs a lot hotter than the ae300..... the unit itself gets very hot to the touch when you put your hand on top, especially on the side where the manual controls are located. im running in low lamp mode.

im also wondering if this is normal, or if its related to the whining noise that i am experiencing.... any ae900 owners out there care to comment?

krlock2

Anyone else have this "extra" noise problem?

NilsP

Anyone else have this "extra" noise problem?

NilsP

My AE900 makes the whining sound when I turn it on during the warm up period, but it settles down in a minute or so and is inaudible after that.

Again, when I turn off the unit the noise returns during the cool down period.

During normal operation I do not hear it even in the most silent of scenes --- I sit about 4 feet from the projector.

I had made the following "colorful" post about calibrating my AE900 here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6414887&&#post6414887), but figure that it may be of interest to some in this thread as well

---------------------

I do not have the expensive equipment to track grayscale, measure primaries, etc., and so this is what I did last night using my trusty Avia dvd's color bars to adjust my AE900:


Started with Cinema 1 (understand that it has the best grayscale tracking?)
Put up the blue flashing bars pattern in Avia and adjusted the color and tint.
I then went to the color decoder test pattern in Avia ... blue looked ok, but red and green were off. (Could this be the reported "yellow" tinge?)
Next I put up the red flashing bars and viewed them using the red filter ... they were off. So I used the CCM menu, pointed the cursor to the red region (not the "white" part) in the pattern and set the color (on the selected region) to line up the flashing bars. Didn't touch tint at all. Only the color saturation.
Saved the settings as USER1
Did the same step as d) using the green flashing color bars.
When I check the color decoder page, everything looks OK. Also verified that the blue color bars were still ok. The hues on the red and green pattern pages also look more closely matched.


I haven't spent time watching movies after this step, but I did notice that in HD the green content is a bit lower than before (possibly more "natural" looking grass). I may go back and start with the blue again ... but this time not touch the "tint" at all ...

Experts, does this make sense as a way to proceed when one only has Avia?

Mine has none of this whine noise, and does not run excessively hot. Never too hot to touch. Sounds like you have a faulty unit to me.

I share your anger if you have to repair instead of replace. It doesn't seem like a good policy to me, but I don't know what your laws state. Good luck.

contacted the supplier regarding the whining noise problem that i have.

he says that a refund or replacement is not possible... it will have to go to panasonic for them to decide if repair or replacement is in order.

i hate this because i can bearly stand to live with a new product which is faulty. it just seems wrong when it is brand new.

as im living in switzerland and not a native and dont speak the language perfectly, i have been unable to find out what the swiss law says about this... anyone have an idea if im legally entitled to a refund or replacement (i want a replacement as im not otherwise unhappy with the projector).

krlock2.-

as fas as i know Switzerland is very consumer protection oriented country.
can you contact some local consumer protection organization to get advise?

One is Multi Coated. By the way, the bottom two are not 77mm, they are 72mm

What's the difference between the Multicoated and non multicoated lens?
does it matter which i get?

i think it's for better glass protection.
you don;t really need it for projector.

Mine has none of this whine noise, and does not run excessively hot. Never too hot to touch. Sounds like you have a faulty unit to me.

I share your anger if you have to repair instead of replace. It doesn't seem like a good policy to me, but I don't know what your laws state. Good luck.


thanks for all your comments.

strangely enough, my ae900 does not make the whining sound during startup and shutdown.

it also is really quite hot.... i dont need the heating on in my living room any more!!! well, maybe not that bad, but its definitely pretty hot if you lay your hand on the top.

it does seem however that i am the only one experiencing this. the retailer is still fighting that it needs to be sent back to panasonic for repair or replacement.

regarding fan noise, are there other ae300 upgraders here who have an opinion?

should the ae900 be really whisper quiet compared the ae300 in low lamp mode? its only subjective, but my ae900 sounds louder.... im thinking this might be due to the problem im having with the whining sound.

krlock2

krlock2,


Forgive me if I missed it, but what is your impression upgrading from the 300 to the 900? I too have the 300 and am seriously considering moving up to the 900.

hi scotty, i gave a list of my general and laymans impressions a few pages back. just do a search for my name or have a look on page ..... 26.

What's the difference between the Multicoated and non multicoated lens?
does it matter which i get?

i think it's for better glass protection.
you don;t really need it for projector.

Its more to do with the quality of the lens. With photography, the Multi-coated lens helps to diffuse light more accurately and gives a clearer overall photo. Optical coatings reduce reflection both internally and externally and thereby increase the amount of light that reaches the eye\screen which improves brightness and contrast. Hoya and Cokin both coat their surfaces with more than one layer, hence the term multi-coated.

I think this applies equally to projectors as it does to photographs.

Chris

Mine has none of this whine noise, and does not run excessively hot. Never too hot to touch. Sounds like you have a faulty unit to me.


I haven't noticed mine running excessively hot.

When I first start up the projector, I hear a very soft fan sound. Then something makes a very faint click and I hear a faint but high-piched whine. It's not really a whine but I don't know what else to call it. After 5 minutes or so, I don't even realize any noise from the projector. For me, watching anything at any listenable volume level, masks any noise from the projector. My projector is mounted on the ceiling about 1 foot in front of my seating position.

Has anyone found a manual online? Panasonic's site seems to be listing the AE700 still ... no sign of the AE900!

The AE700 manual is almost identical, so you can use that as a reference 99% of the time.

I have the Panasonic 900 and I would like to hook my laptop up to it. Should I connect with the serial ET-ADSER or the PC IN? In the manual it says that the serial connect computer for control use. What does that mean?
I was just wanting to hook up the laptop to view pictures and video taken with my camera.
Thanks for your help.
Travis

heres some good news for anyone wanting to buy an AE900... they just released a $200 rebate on them starting today :) I just found out when I ordered mine... the sales rep was like "perfect timing.. they just announced a $200 rebate" :)

mosstrooper, I saw a 7000 hrs ae700... (with a new bulb of course)

any tips or such on using different modes and options for the 900?
there are allot of options, even to adjust the colour, say if I just wanted to increase the colour for a certain mode, would I raise the settings for all colours the same amount?
is there certain times it is better to use a given mode?

hopefully some will come up for air ;) (checking out their new 900's!) long enough to get a list going :D

tks

hope yooz enjoy your panny pj's - the LCD panels will be burnt out after 2500 hours just like my ae700. essentially you keep the bulb and throw the rest away. its a scandal which you shall soon experience in 2500 hrs time. enjoy till then.

Load of rubbish mate. We have one in work, an AE700 with the original bulb and its got just over 3600 hours on it. LCD panels are fine, no obvious dust spots. There are people in here with far more hours on theirs. One guy has nearly 10,000 hours on an AE300 with replacing the bulb only once.

You may have experienced a problem with your particular model, but its a bit like me saying don't ever buy a Ford Focus because after 30,000 miles your gear box is going to give up. It happened to a friend of mine who needed a £1500 servicing to get it back on the road, but i know a lot (and i mean thousands) of people will not have experienced that same problem......Use some common sense with your posts...

Chris

Are you sure this rebate isn't for their LCD projection TV's and not the projectors? I don't see any info on their website regarding ae900 rebates.

It's on the "projector people" web site. I couldn't find the link on the Panasonic web site, per the directions.

Anyone have luck with this?

it was just announced yesterday or today.. so I think we need to give it a few days until it shows up on panasonic's website :)

mosstrooper: thats a pretty ignorant statement!

Well since the rebate is only good for a few days (10/26 - 10/31), Panasonic might want to hurry up and post something or it will be over already! :rolleyes:

I couldn't find anything on their website either (under the rebates section). And actually, they don't even have the 900 listed under Projectors!

Too bad I bought my 900 last week... :(

Well since the rebate is only good for a few days (10/26 - 10/31), Panasonic might want to hurry up and post something or it will be over already! :rolleyes:
Based on the letter from Panasonic that one of the retailers has on their site about the rebate, I would say that it will be good for a lot longer than 10/31/05. However, the date on the letter is 10/27/05 (maybe because it is from Japan and maybe because it actually starts tomorrow).

I couldn't find anything on their website either (under the rebates section). And actually, they don't even have the 900 listed under Projectors!
You have to look in the business section, not the consumer section.

--Darin

so, i bought the optoma h78dc3 a few days ago and just got it set up recently. i love everything about the picture quality...except...i'm seeing those darned rainbows. :( it's not terrible, but i definitely notice them and it does distract me occasionally. perhaps that's because i'm thinking about it...perhaps not.

anyway, what does this have to do with the ae900, you ask? well, i'm thinking perhaps i should switch to an lcd unit to deal with the rainbow effect issue, and the ae900 received a nice review at projectorcentral. my understanding is that most people think the overall picture quality of the h78dc3 is better than the lcd projectors, but i'm hoping to get some thoughts on how much of a difference there is and whether it's worth switching.

(the other lcd projector that also seems viable is the sanyo z4, so i'll ask the folks in that thread also. and incidentally, projectorcentral seems to rate the z4 somewhat better than the ae900. any other reviews i should see for those two? i've been working my way through this thread and the z4 thread, but they're both awfully long!

i'm not concerned about how the projector handles sd material, since i'll only be using it for dvd or hd. and the room is pretty light-free.

the sony hs60 looks intriguing, but i really don't want to wait until early next year when it's scheduled to come out).

by the way, cost isn't an issue in terms of switching...anything under about $7k-ish is fine.

thanks,
tu

"Too bad I bought my 900 last week..."

Roo5676, Don't worry! I'm buying my panaae900 for just 1500€, so don't feel sad...cause everybody in this forum is buying it much more expensive.

In Europe, projectors have better prices. What about the screen prices?

Still enjoying the hell out of the 900! Got the 3 disc Titanic 6.1 Discrete ver and just loving it to death! Close to 70h on the lamp.

Got a question on how to hook up my computer to the PJ for music videos. I take it that just hooking up a video card with a s-video to the PJ and rca to the receiver? I am running a HDMI cable with a DVI converter when I get Verizon Fiber Optic FIOS-TV so that port on the pj is taken. I am not sure what connector the box will have so I went ahead and got the HDMI cable with the dvi converter. I hope that way will work between the two. How do PJ handle HDMI connections being that the audio is carried over the cable? Do the tv boxes have a way to split the audio from a HDMI connection to receiver that doesn't have HDMI?

Thanks,

Steve.

P.S. Yea bummer on that $200 rebate on those who bought just weeks earlier! :( So new why the hell the rebate? They should honor those who bought on speculation!

P.S. Yea bummer on that $200 rebate on those who bought just weeks earlier! :( So new why the hell the rebate? They should honor those who bought on speculation!

Yeah no kidding. Those who went out on a limb and bought the projector on reputation are getting screwed. $200 bucks for an extra week or two doesn't seem right.

this happens everywhere.. and with everything.. I remember years ago I bought the latest greatest mac quadra 840av...$4000... less than a month later they announced and started shipping the PPC's.. I was so mad.. but it happens when your dealing with electronics.

For computer to projector usa VGA, or find a way to switch between two DVI/HDMI inputs. VGA should be fine.

I just found out from one of the Online retailers who's also an AVS Sponsor.

Panasonic doesn't consider Vertical Banding to be a defect.

It sucks to learn this and also to learn about the $200 rebate since I just ordered my 900 on the 25th. Oh well.

Is there anyone using HDMI and the 900u? I read a lot about the problems with HDMI interface.

Anyone have a Yamaha HTR-5760 receiver? Just curious about a DTS encoding problem with either "Rush Hour 2" disc and/or this receiver.

So let me get this straight...in order to get the computer working on the PJ, I could use the VGA output. ok fine but could I still use the s-video for example on a laptop to output to the PJ? and could I also use a video card to output on a desktop? Just would like to clarify if you can only use vga for pc and that s-video won't work? In my case I would like to also use the monitor and then use a switcher to the PJ.

Thanks,

Steve.

Well Projector central just released another little update/review/comparison of the AE900 vs the older Ben Q PE7700. They gave the new Panny much Kudos and props here, even a glowing endorsement. Hummmmm
I have been a past LCD owner (old Sanyo Z1), and have tried to kept an eye on the yearly upgrades since the old Sharp 20u days. While I've found LCD's to have gotten much much better for front projection recently, I've still found their black level, and overall contrast a bit lacking. The best I've seen overall for reasonable money, have been the Sony HS20 and HS51, which had marginal blacks for dark sceen movie material at best IMO. These projectors upon close examination, might start off with acceptable (marginal at best) blacks in "low average pic level sceens", but seem to start getting "greyer" as the projectors warmed up from my experiences! This had proved to be a big let down to me, and the reason I've shyed away from LCD. Basically, without a good black level, the dynamic range of any projector is compromised, and dark material is a bummer I think! Space movies, dark-moire stuff, and most any recent release these days, all seem to be shot in a dark setting of some sort. CRT's and the latest DLP's handle blacks just fine. But then they each have their own issues to deal with for most.
My issue is this...If indeed this new Panny AE900 is "all that" indeed, I will be shocked really! My experience is that these reviewers are often working under "incentives", and often skew the truth for their agendas. I honestly hope the new LCD's are indeed better, if not acceptable for black level, casue that's a deal breaker for my anyway.
I've simply read way to many reviews, and seen to many ratings stystems that were obviously "monetarily motivated" at best, if biased heavily!..."all hail the might dollar."
I sincerely hope these new offerings are what they're hyped to be for the money. Because I would like to deal with some new products, namely these LCD's, without the rainbow-pain-in-my-keester issue, like DLP's.
Still, my better sence tells me I'll have to see one of these new bad boys in person before I'm a believer. I just think I'm ready for dissapointment, that's all.
Please let me be wrong on this one....I'd really like LCD to be getting better. Otherwise, I'll be waiting a while for 3 chip DLP to come down in $, or be checking out the LCos and SXRD stuff for a bit more.
So what do you more experience here, who have or have seen the new LCD pj's think of the black level?...I can live with black level that's close to what's at the local movie theaters

did some more testing of my ae900 last night. avid readers may have noted that i have a high pitched whining noise. im now convinced that it is not normal, and want a replacement rather than a repair. i didnt even ask for a refund. in england (where im from) and america you can do this no questions asked. in switzerland (where i live), the retailer helpfully emailed me with the following answer....

"In Switzerland there isn't even a law to return goods within a certain amount of time. Its all the the goodwill of the dealer."

well thats nice. will have to check that out, but what an annoyance. im not happy with a product which is clearly broken from the first moment, and dont want to accept a repair.

last night i had my ae300 set up in one room and the ae900 set up in another. obviously when i watch a loud movie with explosions, the whining is not audible. but in a quiet scene, i could hear the whining sound continuously from 5 metres away. its not loud, but its there, and its really distracting to me. the ae300 in the other room purrs away peacefully and is, to my ears at least, quieter than the ae900 that I have. this may be another problem in addition to the whining.

few other comments. i received my profigold 10m hdmi cable yesterday as well. i know that that is a somewhat long cable, but i have to say i preferred the picture quality with my 10m component cable (also profigold). on the opening credits of spiderman 2, when the marvel sign appears, then there were a few artifacts visible in the white interior of the marvel logo, which were not really apparent with the component.

and guess what.... i saw vertical banding for the first time. never noticed it before. jeez. during the opening credits of spiderman 2, the screen goes dark blue at some points and i was stunned to see all these vertical bands in the blue part of the picture. oh ****. really not happy that i saw that. so i then re ran the credits on the ae300, and lo and behold, they were there too, but not half as apparent. all this time ive been wondering what vertical banding is all about, cause i never saw it. well, now i have. hopefully i wont be watching "the big blue" or "three colors trilogy: blue" anytime soon.

well, i will take the projector back at the weekend and try to persuade for a replacement. hopefully i will get one but im not sure.

all these years i have so loved my ae300, i almost wish i had just stuck with it. thats a shame, because i have had a love affair with projectors which is now slightly tarnished. i should point out finally that the problems with my ae900 may be specific and not widespread. no one else seems to have this whining noise, for example.

lets see. tune in next week for the next exciting episode....

Well Projector central just released another little update/review/comparison of the AE900 vs the older Ben Q PE7700. They gave the new Panny much Kudos and props here, even a glowing endorsement. Hummmmm...

... I've still found their black level, and overall contrast a bit lacking. The best I've seen overall for reasonable money, have been the Sony HS20 and HS51, which had marginal blacks for dark sceen movie material at best IMO. These projectors upon close examination, might start off with acceptable (marginal at best) blacks in "low average pic level sceens", but seem to start getting "greyer" as the projectors warmed up from my experiences!.....

....I've simply read way to many reviews, and seen to many ratings stystems that were obviously "monetarily motivated" at best, if biased heavily!..."all hail the might dollar."....


....I can live with black level that's close to what's at the local movie theaters....

Firstly, i think you will probably be pretty pleased with the black levels of the new LCD projectors. If you are really concerned about black levels and nothing else, wait for the Sony HS60 to come out, which has an amazing 10,000:1 contrast ratio and great black levels. Obviously 10,000:1 isnt very accurate, but it gives you an idea.

Read the review of the Panasonic AE900 v Benq PE7700 and i think you will start to see how good the recent LCD's are in black level reproduction. If you are not happy with the out-of-the-box blacks, then there are a lot of tweeks you can do to the image to increase them. If you are still not happy, get Da-Lite HCCV or a Draper High Def Grey screen to increase your contrast. If you are still not happy, put an 81c multi-coated filter onto the front of it and again deepen your black levels. If you are still not happy at that point, then you've pretty much exhausted your options. Remember that you should ideally let your projector warm up for a bit before starting viewing...

Also, cinema black levels are often not that great. Many only tend to have contrast ratios in the region of 1000:1 and 1500:1 and most small screen home theatres can easily beat a cinema in terms of image, black levels and contrast, but the cinema has the advantage in the size it can output. SO if you are happy with the levels of black at the cinema (which a lot of the time have a greyish look to the blacks) then you will definitely be happy with any one of the new PJ's.

Finally, there have been a lot of reviews from many different people and most, if not all, will contend that the Panasonic PTAE900 is a great projector with a phenomonal image, and probably all, except some idiot who posted his comments on the Projector Central user review website, will give it the best value projector around....Im not one for saying different people are biased towards different things. The Projector Central is a basic laymans review, there are a lot more detailed ones out there from different users. CKL's is pretty good. Don't assume everyone is biased. Remember that these reviewers test all different makes of projector and although for the majority they always try to find the good points of a projector more so that the bad (which i think is a good policy) they cant please every manufacturer with their comments.
Chris

These projectors upon close examination, might start off with acceptable (marginal at best) blacks in "low average pic level sceens", but seem to start getting "greyer" as the projectors warmed up from my experiences!
That probably isn't the projector changing, but dark adaptation of your eyes. If you turned the room lights on for just a few seconds this would probably start all over again. I haven't figured out how bright the images would have to be for the dark adaptation to start over, but I think if the white level is high enough then a bright scene could also reset your eyes. In general, I believe that you have about 1/3rd of total dark adaptation after about 5 minutes and it takes about 30 minutes to get almost all of it.

--Darin

Based on the letter from Panasonic that one of the retailers has on their site about the rebate, I would say that it will be good for a lot longer than 10/31/05. However, the date on the letter is 10/27/05 (maybe because it is from Japan and maybe because it actually starts tomorrow).

You have to look in the business section, not the consumer section.

--Darin

Has anyone actually found the rebate form on the Panasonic website? Please post a link - thanks,

DE

Ekkehart at Cine4home.de released the first part of his Ae900 review. Don't go there expecting alot right yet as this is only part one and doesn't have all the nitty gritty picture stuff that'll be there with the completed review.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/PTAE900/PT900Test.htm

Babelfish it at http://babelfish.altavista.com

all these years i have so loved my ae300, i almost wish i had just stuck with it. thats a shame, because i have had a love affair with projectors which is now slightly tarnished. i should point out finally that the problems with my ae900 may be specific and not widespread. no one else seems to have this whining noise, for example.

lets see. tune in next week for the next exciting episode....

Sounds like the exact same report from ROne about his Z3 vs Z4. He's currently running the Z4 Tweak Thread since none of us have our Z4's in the US yet.

I'm getting confused with the vertical offset spec for this projector. I've seen different numbers here vs. reviews I've read vs. information provided in Panasonic's brochure (click here (ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/brochures/B_PT-AE900U.pdf)).

The brochure presents a diagram showing the projection range vs. screen center. Total vertical range is indicated as 2.26V where V=screen height. By my math, that's a total range of 2.26V - 1.00V = 1.26V outside of the screen borders, or a range above or below the screen of 1.26V / 2 = 0.63V. Or in other words 0.63V above the screen + 0.63V below the screen + 1.0V within the screen = 2.26V total vertical range. For an 87" side 16:9 screen (100" diagonal, 49" vertical) that would amount to an available offset of 49" x 0.63V above the screen, or 30.87".

From Home Theater Spot:

which allows for a max position 13% of the screen height above or below the screen

This spec works out to 6.37" maximum vertical offset for the same screen dimension.


The Projector Central review indicates:

At neutral position, the centerline of the lens intersects the center of the projected image. From this position, the image can be shifted up or down in a range equal to a little bit more than one full screen height
So based on this calculation, even at one full height (the review states "a bit more" than, that would be 49" from the neutral position at the center of the screen, so starting at 24 1/2" inches (screen center) you can move as high as 49" inches up, or 24 1/2" above the top of the screen.


Earlier in this thread the following was provided:

Yes, you can have the projector lens positioned 13% of the screen height above the top of the screen. There's a picture from the original AE900 thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=43117

That link points to the same image I refer to earlier from the 900 brochure. And looking at it here I'm convinced the 13% indicator is inaccurate. My interpretation of that diagram is it represents the range within and around the screen that the lens can be positioned (with enough horizontal and vertical offset to maintain a centered image, notwithstanding tradeoffs in range when using both offsets combined), not the range of the projected image. If it were the latter that would mean there is [i]no[i] offset outside the boundaries of the screen and the projector would be bound within the screen perimeter.

Based on my interpretation the vertical plane shows a lens travel range of 0.63V outside of the screen top and bottom. From neutral it can travel 1.13V (2.26/2). So 1.13x above center line. For my 49" heigh screen that would be a total travel of 1.13 x 49" = 55.37 from the neutral/center line position. Perhaps that's where the 13% is coming from. But remember that above center line/neutral position there's only a half screen height before you get to the edge. So for this screen you go 24.5" above center then you hit the border. That leaves 55.37" total range from neutral less 24.5" from neutral to border or 30.87" above the border (ie. 0.63V).

So what's the deal? Which is the right number? Am I out of my tree. Has someone conclusively measured the available range with an installed projector? I don't need the full 30+" that I suggested above. 14" or so will get me flush to the ceiling allowing for the thickness of the mount and a couple of inches down to the center of the lens.

Can anyone do a more accurate translation of the Cine4Home review on the Panasonic. The Babelfish one leaves it a bit off. I perfect English translation would be great...

Thanks
Chris

Is there anyone using HDMI and the 900u? I read a lot about the problems with HDMI interface.

Steve,

I use HDMI from an HTPC (DVI -> HDMI) to a 700. Initially the 700 had issues but those were resolved (except for cropping) with firmware. The 900 solved the cropping issue. I would think HDMI would be fine with good cables.


So let me get this straight...in order to get the computer working on the PJ, I could use the VGA output. ok fine but could I still use the s-video for example on a laptop to output to the PJ? and could I also use a video card to output on a desktop? Just would like to clarify if you can only use vga for pc and that s-video won't work? In my case I would like to also use the monitor and then use a switcher to the PJ.

Thanks,

Steve.

S-Video should be fine, though the signal quality will be less than desirable.
Other than HDMI and DVI, those sources are analog, thus subject to analog artifacts. For example I moved from VGA to HDMI because no matter the quality of the VGA cable, my desktop continued to exhibit "ringing". The desktop is the most demanding of signal sources because of all the hard edges and thin lines so I consider it a very rigorous test for PQ. S-Video "might" be acceptable for DVD but I doubt it will be for desktop use.

ted

So what's the deal? Which is the right number? Am I out of my tree. Has someone conclusively measured the available range with an installed projector? I don't need the full 30+" that I suggested above. 14" or so will get me flush to the ceiling allowing for the thickness of the mount and a couple of inches down to the center of the lens.

To make a long story short, the center of the lens can be a maximum of 13% above the top edge of the screen. 50% Vertical shift or .5V as Panasonic would have it centers your lens at the top or bottom edge of the screen. Another .13 or 13% gives you the .63.

Now let's say your screen is 50" in height. And let's say you place the projector so the lens center is at the top edge of the screen. You must move the image .5V down with the lens shift to center it on the screen. .5V uses 79.4% of your total available lens shift.

Now let's take it to the .63V. Your lens is now centered at .63V versus .5V. You move the center of the projector lens .13V above the top edge of the screen. On your 50" high screen that is 6.5" (.13 * 50") that you can move the center of the lens above the top edge of the screen.

Yes that doesn't leave a whole lot of room or options for ceiling mounting unless you have low ceilings or extend the projector down off the ceiling quite a bit.

.5V as Panasonic would have it centers your lens at the top or bottom edge of the screen. Another .13 or 13% gives you the .63.
Dusk

Thanks for your reply. Is that your practical experience or your interpretation of the Panasonic diagram? That diagram shows there is 0.63 above the image for offset, beyond the 0.5V from screen center to screen edge. Likewise the total range of 2.26V allows for 1.13V above or below center line, or 1.13V - 0.5V = 0.63V above (or below) the screen edge.

That link points to the same image I refer to earlier from the 900 brochure. And looking at it here I'm convinced the 13% indicator is inaccurate. My interpretation of that diagram is it represents the range within and around the screen that the lens can be positioned (with enough horizontal and vertical offset to maintain a centered image, notwithstanding tradeoffs in range when using both offsets combined), not the range of the projected image. If it were the latter that would mean there is no[i] offset [i]outside the boundaries of the screen and the projector would be bound within the screen perimeter.

No, you're reading it wrong. The picture does show the range of the projected image. I doctored that image to demonstrate the fact that the lens can be up to 13% of the screen height above the image, which certainly isn't all that clear otherwise. The same goes for having the lens below the image. BTW, this is not just speculation. It has been confirmed on the AE900. Hope that and dusk's explanation above clears this up.

well, i'm thinking perhaps i should switch to an lcd unit to deal with the rainbow effect issue, and the ae900 received a nice review at projectorcentral. my understanding is that most people think the overall picture quality of the h78dc3 is better than the lcd projectors, but i'm hoping to get some thoughts on how much of a difference there is and whether it's worth switching.
tu


I'm willing to exchange my AE900U with you for a few days if you want as I would like to test the 78 in my system. But I really love the 900 so the exchange must be temporary! PM me if you're interested.


RE: the rebate comments here- I too bought last week (friday), but am pushing with the retailer to get me qualified for the rebate. We'll see if they can work it out. It's not enough savings to threaten them with a return, but it's annoying how Panasonic implemented this rebate. And yes, their press release does say it expires on Oct. 31st.

Darin,

You said your 2nd ae900 had a touch of (mis)convergence, but you didn't mention if the VB was gone / better. Other than convergence, what are the differences you noted between PJ #1 and #2 (or have you tried 3 at this point maybe?).

Also, Li-on and some others have noted "issues" with D5 panels in general (IIRC, a vertical "line" near the left edge of the screen). Any notice of something like this?

Thanks,

- Chris

krlock2,

Well I finally tracked down your comparison. I was wondering if you had a digital camera and could do a few side by side screen shots comparing the 300 and the 900?

Also, from what I understand the 'peek-a-boo' screendoor effect from the 300 is supposed to dramatically improved with the 900...can you comment on that?

You also mentioned sharpness. From what I read you believe the 300 is sharper than the 900?

I am sorry to hear you are having issues with a whine, I have the same issue...only it is not with my projector....It sounds like you may have a bad fan. I remember my PC developed a whine which was solved by changing out the fan. Best of luck with your 900 and I hope you are able to exchange it.Hi there,

My AE900 arrived on saturday, here in switzerland. I would like to share my initial impressions, from a non technical point of view. I am upgrading from an ae300.

From the outside, the ae300 is significantly larger than the ae300, with a much larger lens. The overall finish seems cheaper than the ae300, not quite as well made, somewhat more like it is made more economically, with cheap plastic. it looks modern compared to my ae300, but not quite as posh. i always thought that the ae300 looked kinda retro style. im undecided whether any of this is good or bad, im just pointing out a few things.

the remote control is obviously a lot more complex than the last generation. it glows very brightly as well, which is nice. the directional pad is not brilliant however, when i press "down" it often confuses it with right or left, for example. this is a bit of a pain. overall, its much cooler than the ae300 remote, and being a learning remote, im sure it will come in useful for a lot of people. however, i recently bought a logitech harmony 885 remote control to control everything. this is such a good item, that i will not really be needing the ae900 remote much, if at all.

before i get onto anything else, there is one problem with my ae900 i want to mention. although the fan is quieter in low lamp mode than the ae300, it also emits a high pitched whining sound which is rather unsettling. i wouldnt say that the whine is loud at all, but is is audible from a few metres away from the projector, and it was getting on my nerves already..... any other owners hear this? im hoping that this noise will go away very soon, otherwise i might have to try and return the item, which is a bit harder to do over here in switzerland. the ae300 fan noise was not a problem for me, so naturally the ae900 fan noise is not a problem, but a high pitched whining sound IS a problem for me. its really not what i want to hear when im listening to a movie. sure, i can obly hear it in quiet scenes, but that is still enough of a problem to really worry me. any views anyone?

ok, ae900 has lens shift, ae300 did not. i like the lens shift. more or less, it allows me to position the image a bit lower on my wall than i could easily do with the ae300, and subsequently, i can have a larger image, more comfortably. its definitely a great thing to have lens shift. the image seems to be projected quite low without it, though, compared to my ae300, meaning that even though i have quite a high shelf, i still need to push the image up with the lens shift, quite a bit. i noted that projector central said that it would be fine to run this pj in normal lamp mode, rather than low. i disagree, the fan was pretty loud with the normal mode. so its in low lamp mode, like my ae300 was.

next up, laymans view of picture quality. i always wondered how this would be, and whenever i asked, i was sceptical of the tired old comment, "the difference is night and day". i never subscribed to that. so, how did it work out. well, initially, i was a little let down. the difference is not night and day to me. at first, i found that subtitles looked less clear, and that the brightness of the projector led to a slightly washed out image (no dount due to the fact that the new projector is brighter than my 1000 hour ae300, and that im projecting onto a white wall). however, after a few hours of viewing, i began to be able to appreciate the picture quality a bit more. im running component cables from a samsung hd950 (my hdmi cable should arrive in the next few days). the samsung upconverts to 720p, which i found the most pleasing to the eye.

anyhow, at first i couldnt see a big difference, but after i while i was more and more pleased with the image. the blacks are deeper, the colours vibrant, and sharpness not bad at all. i think it helps to run the image from an upconverting player in this respect. i am still a bit wary about subtitles (i normally watch films with subtitles) being a bit smudgy, but that might have been a problem specific to the two dvd's that i have so far watched.

i should remind you that these are only inital impressions, based on watching about 4 hours of lamptime.

as i write i just got a message from the shop where i bought it. he said that the whining sound might be caused by production oils needing a bit of time to disappear or something. sounds reasonable enough, he said just to let him know if it gets better or not.

menu system is much updated in the ae900. much better and more presentable than the ae300. you even have three choices as to the transparency/colour of the menu, and can choose its on screen position.

i have to admit, i feel a wave of nostalgia for my ae300... my first projector and such a source of joy to me. but without the whine, i think the ae900 will see me through the next few years, especially when hdtv finally arrives here, or at least when my xbox 360 arrives.

any questions, let me know!

krlock2

edit: just thought of something else. the dynamic iris reconfigures the image for best contrast every 1/60th of a second. i feel sure tha i can see this going on, and im really not sure i like it at all... you see the image change very quickly and it doesnt seem that natural to me... i think i will turn this feature off, in all likelihood.

edit2: i didnt see VB on my ae300, i dont see it on the ae900.

edit3: for those coming from an ae300, the image size can be made much smaller and also a bit larger with the 2.0x zoom. very flexible..... small image (like 40 inchs) looks sooo small though, compared to what this thing can do.... and makes me happy over all those 40 inch flat screen owners. (i have 32 inch flat screen).

Dusk

Thanks for your reply. Is that your practical experience or your interpretation of the Panasonic diagram? That diagram shows there is 0.63 above the image for offset, beyond the 0.5V from screen center to screen edge. Likewise the total range of 2.26V allows for 1.13V above or below center line, or 1.13V - 0.5V = 0.63V above (or below) the screen edge.

You've got it mixed up a bit still. You need to remember that to center the image on a screen if you center the projector lens at the top edge of the screen you need to use .5V of your lens shift. The AE900 only has .63V to work with.

Or lets think of it this way. Place the projector on a coffee table, no lens shift use. Shifting the image upward .5v will center the lens at the bottom edge of the screen. You have .13v left to shift if you want. Doing so, now the center of the AE900 lens is outside the projected image by .13 * Screen Height. With the 50" screen height example again you only have 6.5 inches above or below the screen to place the center of the lens. If you move the projector away from the screen to say 100" screen height which is nuts with 1100 lumens the maximum you could place the center of the lens and still get the image on the screen is 13".

The idea is that regardless of how much vertical shift you use on the AE900 you will always be overlapping somewhat onto the potential projected image when using no lens shift. The Z4 has 3.0 total vertical offset or 1.0v above the top edge of a centered image. That means I can project, one full image height above the top edge of a centered/no lens shift image. For ceiling mounting with the Z4 that means I have a full .5V above the top edge of the screen for placement of the projector. Using the 50" height example that means I have 25" to work worth. Placing 25" above top edge and then using the full Z4 vertical lens shift will center the image on the screen.

OK let me take a stab at how you're thinking about it. You're cutting out half the screen. In saying 1.13v above the center line, you must take into account the .5v that is the top or bottom half of a centered image. You get .63v above the top of the top edge of a centered image. But that still leaves .37v overlapping the centered image space. 1.13v above or below the top edge of the image is how I think you're thinking about it but would require a 3.26V total vertical offset not 2.26V because you have to take into account the 1.0V centered image space from whence you are shifting. .63V is not a whole image above or below the top edge of a centered image. It's only 63%. 37% overlaps what you would get with a centered image.

Think of it this way with the Z4. I can pick the projector up in my hands and move it 1.0v vertically from the center of the screen up or down, use lens shift and still get the image on the screen. Moving the projector and moving the lens shift are two separate ways of thinking. This is because with the projector you have 2.0V of total Vertical movement where you can use the lens shift to get onto a stationary screen. Crossing between lens shift and physically moving the projector in terms of X.0V is tricky. That's the hang up in peoples' minds.

Think of it this way with the Z4. I can pick the projector up in my hands and move it 1.0v vertically from the center of the screen up or down, use lens shift and still get the image on the screen. Moving the projector and moving the lens shift are two separate ways of thinking. This is because with the projector you have 2.0V of total Vertical movement where you can use the lens shift to get onto a stationary screen. Crossing between lens shift and physically moving the projector in terms of X.0V is tricky. That's the hang up in peoples' minds.

This is correct. When you look at the diagram, assume the projector is fixed and the screen can move within the boundaries, not vice versa. Then you can see that the vertical lens shift is limit to 13% of screen height beyond the top or bottom.

Don

Based on the letter from Panasonic that one of the retailers has on their site about the rebate, I would say that it will be good for a lot longer than 10/31/05. However, the date on the letter is 10/27/05 (maybe because it is from Japan and maybe because it actually starts tomorrow).

You have to look in the business section, not the consumer section.

--Darin

There are now 2 different internet retailer sites that list the PT-AE900 rebate only good through Monday, October 31. It is interesting that the actual marketing letter does not specify an end date, they are actually too busy spewing voluminous redundant spec information instead of giving actual good information on the rebate they are announcing.

I don't see any reference to the rebate on the Panny web site yet. Maybe they will get it up by Tuesday (the day after the rebate expires).

Don

When you look at the diagram, assume the projector is fixed and the screen can move within the boundaries, not vice versa. Then you can see that the vertical lens shift is limit to 13% of screen height beyond the top or bottom.

It makes sense now that it's clear the diagram represents where you can move the image, not the lens. I didn't realize the Z4 had that much movement to it.

All that aside is there a penalty for maxing the available lens shift?

All that aside is there a penalty for maxing the available lens shift?

Yes, it's recommended that you minimize the shift to maximize picture quality. Opticcally, the closer to the center, the better. That being said, I have it at 50% vertical shift with no noticeable drop in PQ.

You said your 2nd ae900 had a touch of (mis)convergence, but you didn't mention if the VB was gone / better. Other than convergence, what are the differences you noted between PJ #1 and #2 (or have you tried 3 at this point maybe?).
I can still see the VB, but I don't think it would bother most people. The first one had one dead pixel and I believe it had a little more VB. I didn't really calibrate the first one since I wanted to send it back during the grace period. While there are probably AE900s with less VB than mine (and people who see it less obviously than I do on the same LCDs), I'm still very happy with it for what I paid. I'm more forgiving of things with lower prices in general.


Also, Li-on and some others have noted "issues" with D5 panels in general (IIRC, a vertical "line" near the left edge of the screen). Any notice of something like this?
I haven't noticed anything like that, but I tend to move my projectors a lot and I usually overshoot the edges onto the screen's black border just a little bit.

--Darin

I just got my AE900 from a local retailer here in Winnipeg. The documentation that came with it clearly states that it has a 1 year parts and labour warranty that INCLUDES the lamp, but only for units purchased and serviced in Canada. There is also a warranty page for USA units which states just a 90 day warranty on the lamp (1 year on the rest). So, Canada get a break in this regard!

BTW, I was able to view 2 different 900 units to look for VB and noticed some in one and very very minimal VB in the other. I choose the latter. The salesman was a bit surprised that the quality control from Panasonic was still a bit suspect.

It makes sense now that it's clear the diagram represents where you can move the image, not the lens. I didn't realize the Z4 had that much movement to it.

All that aside is there a penalty for maxing the available lens shift?

I have the exact same question. In the projector central review, there is a reference to maximum lens shift effect on brightness uniformity, and an explanation on why you may be able to use the maximum vertical lens shift. In the latest cinehome review, it is hard to understand due to the bad babelfish translation, however there may be an issue with convergence vs. max lens shift. There will also be more info about it in the upcoming cinehome "picture" review of the AE-900.

Don

It's also mentioned in the AE900 manual that the best PQ is obtained with no lens shift.

it's recommended that you minimize the shift to maximize picture quality.
What are the specific trade-offs? And are they inherent to lens shift of any type or just to the Panny and its ilk.

Does the AE900 allow adjustment of colour uniformity like the Hitachi TX100 does? The first TX100 I had I was able to greatly reduce a bad uniformity problem and by the feel of the menu I could have done better.

I have been planning to get a Z4, and have one on preorder, but with the announcement of the $200 rebate the price is the same to get the AE900 and I am reconsidering.

I would need to use about 80-90% of the available lens shift for the AE900 in my setup. The Z4 lens shift is broader, and so I wouldn't need to use as much (relatively) with that PJ.

I understand the general principle that "less shift is better", but from a practical view, is using 80-90% considered "extreme shift" and would there be noticeable misconvergence or bowing?

The PJ will be sitting just below the top of the screen area, and a bit offcenter to the side.

I will be sitting at about 1.5x screen width, if that matters.

According to CKL's review, he was using the most extreme downward shift and it still compared favorably to the Z4 in most categories.

Thanks for any data, or even opinions, especially from anyone who has actually looked at this.

not to rain on everyone's parade...

i received the ae900 and put it thru the paces with a variety of material (dvd, standard cable, HDTV).

i "upgraded" from the panny L300U.

to be honest i cannot justify the extra cost. is there a difference? sure there is...but maybe 10-20% to my eyes. is the contrast better? sure...but not worth the extra expense, in my humble opinion.

to be honest, contrast (or lack-thereof, as some may say) has never been an issue with me. for me the reason for upgrading was the extra resolution and the supposed "fix" of the FPN/VB issues that have plagued prior lcd projectors, save perhaps the sonys.

is the resolution better? of course and i can notice it, but again, is it worth the extra expense? nope.

and here's the kicker...the ae900 still has noticeable fixed panel noise...at least as much as the L300U.

bottom line: i'm returning the ae900 and keeping the L300U.

it may be a good option for new projector owners or even those upgrading from very low resolution projectors, but in my case, i will stick with the L300U....it simply is NOT a night and day difference.

Gotta agree with you slateef on every single point, though in my case my reason for 'upgrade' was that I broke my AE300 by dropping the panel/prism array while cleaning. Had I not done that and gone out to demo an AE900 with a view to upgrade, then I would have come back empty handed with renewed pride in the capabilities of my AE300.

Don't get me wrong, the AE900 is a fabulous PJ but I wouldn't bother upgrading from an AE300 and presumably AE500 or 700 either unless you need the res for hi-def. Don't have hi-def over here yet, probably for a good many years to come too.
In fact I'm going to bring the PC in to the PJ tonight to check out the MS Hi-Def clips. I might even come to the conclusion that its not worth upgrading for that either!! :D:D

Another strange thing is that I think I have VB but only in Cinema 1 and Cinema 2 modes but no others?? Whats going on there?

not to rain on everyone's parade...

i received the ae900 and put it thru the paces with a variety of material (dvd, standard cable, HDTV).

i "upgraded" from the panny L300U.

to be honest i cannot justify the extra cost. is there a difference? sure there is...but maybe 10-20% to my eyes. is the contrast better? sure...but not worth the extra expense, in my humble opinion.

to be honest, contrast (or lack-thereof, as some may say) has never been an issue with me. for me the reason for upgrading was the extra resolution and the supposed "fix" of the FPN/VB issues that have plagued prior lcd projectors, save perhaps the sonys.

is the resolution better? of course and i can notice it, but again, is it worth the extra expense? nope.

and here's the kicker...the ae900 still has noticeable fixed panel noise...at least as much as the L300U.

bottom line: i'm returning the ae900 and keeping the L300U.

it may be a good option for new projector owners or even those upgrading from very low resolution projectors, but in my case, i will stick with the L300U....it simply is NOT a night and day difference.


Thats strange because i believe my Panasonic AE500 is a better PJ than the AE300, and by a decent bit. I have seen both the AE500 and the AE900 and the 900 is in a whole different league....like its not night and day and the images are great on both, but in terms of sharpness, contrast, black levels, less SDE, less VB, more lumens, then the AE900 really does compare far far more.

According to the $200 rebate form which I have only found at one site, the offer is good for October 26th through December 31st. Ordered mine today!

oriphus, i guess its simply in the eye of the beholder...

based on a cost/benefit ratio, i just couldn't justify it. but again, YMMV.

I notice several people talking about rebates on the AE900, I am assuming this is a US rebate. For those Canadians out there, I don't know how widespread this is, but when I bought my AE900 last week both the place I bought my projector from and another Canadian dealer i got a quote from told me that during October the AE900 comes with and extra bulb for free. It helped me make up my mind right away. So if there are any other Canadians looking to buy in Canada it may be worth trying to find out if you can get the same deal.

I got my ae900 monday and so far I am very impressed. Now I just need to find a screen.

The form states only in the 50 states, a free bulb would be even nicer :cool:

My opinion is based on about an hour watching purely DVD without any tweaking and is most definately subject to change. Its looking better to my eyes already. I'm wondering if there is some setting elsewhere I need to change with regard to contrast. Why? Well there is a night and day difference between the projected black of a space scene for example along with the 2.35:1 black bars....and the black of the menu overlay! I moved the menu down to overlap the black bars and the overlay is so much blacker than either the bars or the 'Space'. The bars coming from the dvd player and the overlay from the PJ. In fact now that I mention it I think I remember something about gamma or grey blacks in relation to my Toshiba RDXS32 Dvd Recorder ages ago. Must investigate tomorrow, and hook up a different player and my PC aswell.

a free bulb would be even nicer
That's the deal in Canada right now.

I'm a little torn at this point. I have the 900 still in the box waiting to be installed once my screen arrives. But I was expecting a greater lens shift range than what I interpreted from the Panasonic diagram. And reading the reviews it seems the Sanyo Z4 has some advantages beyond a wide degree of shift. While it's not as accurate with color and grayscale it's said to deliver better blacks on scenes with higher average picture levels (which is most of the time, how often do you have a shot of just darkness). Would the color/grayscale shift even be visible without side-by-side comparison? I don't know if I care one way or another about Panasonic's Smooth Screen and lack of pixel structure as I'm sitting beyond the point that will show up anyway. The Sanyo also some nice maintenance and protection features with the auto close lens cover and panel cleaning. Prices should be a wash or close enough.

What are people's thoughts here? Are the performance differences close enough that my desire for flush ceiling mount should take priority?

--Jay

Jay, Same thing I am dealing with accept that I don't have the AE900 sitting in my house. I wanted to try the Panny until I figured out it wouldn't ceiling mount in my room, so I am holding off for the Z4. My initial feeling is out of the box the AE900 might look better but if you are into tweaking based on previous models I think the Z4 has lots of potential. I was wanting to watch movies and not tweak so much but a nice installation is important to me as well. Until a few folks get the Z4 here in the states it's hard to tell. I think it will come down to preferences in choosing between these two models. Anyway after all this rambling, the point is I feel your pain. Release the damn Z4 please!!!!! :eek:

The PJ will be sitting just below the top of the screen area, and a bit offcenter to the side.
I will be sitting at about 1.5x screen width, if that matters.
According to CKL's review, he was using the most extreme downward shift and it still compared favorably to the Z4 in most categories.
Thanks for any data, or even opinions, especially from anyone who has actually looked at this.


That's exactly where my projector sits. Projecting onto a 100" Stewart Firehawk. I'm using most of the shift and see ZERO artifacts.

I'm shocked to hear some see no improvement over previous panny models. Then I notice they are not feeding it HD. This PJ really shines when I feed it 1080i....even better than the 720 that matches the resolution. I tried both from the Motorola 6412 DVR and the 1080i is absolutely breathtaking. Garbage in, garbage out.

I was wanting to watch movies and not tweak so much but a nice installation is important to me as well
The thing with tweaking is you get it calibrated once (and try and let it be, enjoy movies instead). With installation it's there always. I'm trying to visualize the projector hanging from my ceiling and it's bothering me. It's not a huge drop if I use the available 6" of the 900's vertical offset: the center of the lens would be 14" from the ceiling, not in anyone's way, behind the second row of seats. But even that compared to it being discretely snug to the ceiling makes me wince.

What is the latest ETA on the Z4 being available for sale in North America?

Hey all, I got to ask a lame question, I want to get my first pj and have heard great things for the money with the infocus 4805. Most of you seem to be 2 3 and 4th pj owners so I value your response. I have bell expressvu Sat ( not the HD stuff as I think its still pretty limited) and want to use the pj for DVD movies. I am willing to spend the 3k Canadian if the picture is much better than the 1 K infocus 4805 for non HD media. What do you think I should buy, PS where do you get to take advantage of HD in any significant way? Your response is very appreciated. ;)

$200 rebate ends Sunday 10/31/05.

http://www.projectorpeople.com/SLIS/downloads/rebates/Panasonic/PANPT-AE900U_200Rebate.pdf

Oops. Offer good 10/26/05 through Monday 10/31/05.

I was reading some where that the way the AE900 produces it's high contrast and deep blacks is by the iris cutting out lumens during dark scenes. It said that when this happens you can tell a big difference in the over all experience because the scenes drastically change from light to dark and dark to light. I was thinking of getting one of these pj's, but not if it was that big of a deal. Anyone experiencing this?/ comments?

Oops. Offer good 10/26/05 through Monday 10/31/05.

You might want to check out the actual rebate form here (http://www.projectorsolution.com/PDFdocuments/rebates/panasonicAe900u.pdf).

It's likely Panny will extend the rebate past 12/31. They did last year.

Am I missing something? How is the lose of the 12V trigger and replacement with a serial port a good thing? Considering the trigger is standard on all mid to high end projectors, why would Panasonic remove it?

I also understand that the remote is much improved and is learning, but not all of us have remove control operated electric screens.

Anyone know how I can get a similar function that the 12V trigger provided out of a serial port?

Thanks,
Wakefield

but from a practical view, is using 80-90% considered "extreme shift" and would there be noticeable misconvergence or bowing?


I currently have the AE700, using almost all of the vertical shift, and the bottom of the image is definitely not straight. It is lower in the middle, and is very noticeable if I didn't mask it. I don't know what else it is doing to the picture - I never compared because the shift joy-stick is so sticky that once I had it set exactly, I didn't want to change it.

Also, if you are using all of the vertical shift, then you have no horizontal shift.

Hey ABCD,

Check out my post at number 777 or try the link below...u get the same? Check out my pictures.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6408038&&#post6408038

Steve.

krlock2,

Well I finally tracked down your comparison. I was wondering if you had a digital camera and could do a few side by side screen shots comparing the 300 and the 900?

Also, from what I understand the 'peek-a-boo' screendoor effect from the 300 is supposed to dramatically improved with the 900...can you comment on that?

You also mentioned sharpness. From what I read you believe the 300 is sharper than the 900?

I am sorry to hear you are having issues with a whine, I have the same issue...only it is not with my projector....It sounds like you may have a bad fan. I remember my PC developed a whine which was solved by changing out the fan. Best of luck with your 900 and I hope you are able to exchange it.

hi scotty.

i dont have a digital camera handy sorry, and to be honest i always feel that those kinda shots are pretty worthless. you gotta be in the room im afraid.

the picture is better, but not massively.

screendoor is definitely improved. but the ae300 did a good job anyway, unless you were sitting very very close. but the ae900 is much better.

no, someone else reviewed the ae900 and said it wasnt that sharp. due to better resolution etc i say the ae900 is definitely sharper than the ae300.

still havent resolved the fan issue. pain in the arse.

but i also agree with recent posts that the ae900 isnt a huge huge step up over my ae300, and if i had had the chance to demo both side by side, i might have stuck with my ae300 for another year. or maybe not? its hard for me to say.

my overriding impression is of what a good job the ae300 has done for me over the last couple of years!!!


krlock2.

krlock2.

In fact I'm going to bring the PC in to the PJ tonight to check out the MS Hi-Def clips. I might even come to the conclusion that its not worth upgrading for that either!! :D:D

Prepare yourself for a (nice) surprise. Some of the MS clips are incredible. Make sure that you check out the Amazon, Coral Reef and Speed clips, they are among my favourites anyway.

I too upgraded from the PT-AE300, and I certainly found it worthwhile. HD is completely new to me, so maybe I am easier to impress, but I can watch those clips and many of the others over and over without tiring of them.

It is assuring to hear some of the mixed reviews starting to come out. I agree, although it doesn't seem to be the popular stand when you just through down some hard earned money. With a side by side comparison, I would have gone through another bulb with my Plus Piano (that would have been another 2 years, and brought me to the 1080p ballgame with my next machine).

There are some improvements, including the addition of HD. That being said, I'm satisfied with the purchase, just not overwhelmed.

I must say, for certain DVD's (playing a scene that is the strength of this projector), the picture can be jaw dropping. One area that I feel it does a great job with, is the skintones of black skin. Particularly in "Something the Lord Made", "Amistad" and "The Patriot".

I'm up to 40 hours already. It may be time to order that extra bulb! ;)

Didnt i read that the iScan HD provides a similar level of up-scaling as the Panny already. I have read elsewhere that the built in up-scaler in the Optoma H79 gives a better output than that of an iScan HD?

Cheers
Chris

For some reason my Iscan was off and I was sending a 480p signal to my Panny (w/o realizing it). Boy, was I underwhelm by the picture last night. The images seemed flat on the Land of the Dead DVD....I hadn't fired up the projector in a couple of weeks and I thought maybe my initial impressions were off. So I popped in Batman Begins and again the image never relly popped off the screen. I pulled up the panny menu and noticed it was feeding a 480p signal. I corrected my Iscan HD+ and BAM, what appeared was a more three dimensional image, sharper and more "pop."

So to answer your question above....IMHO, panny does not provide the same upconverted image as an Iscan HD.

Ron

Thanks Ron, but its also good to know that you had forgotten it wasnt connected. I've every confidence in my new Marantz DV7600's upscaling capabilities...

Here are a couple questions I posed in another thread but did not receive an answer. Maybe some owners of the AE900 can answer these.

On www.projectorcentral.com, they list the AE900 as having a 'Maximum Resolution' of 1920 x 1080. Is this only for PC input?

Confusion increases from this website, http://projectorpeople.com/hometheater/projspec.asp?itemid=20229&itmname=Panasonic+PT%2DAE900U, where under 'Compatibility', 'Video Signals', 1080p is listed.

Here is where my newness to fp's shows up and my ignorance is on high:

1. If the AE900 does have a Max Res of 1920 x 1080, is it only for PC input?

2. If the AE900 does have a Max Res of 1920 x 1080, what happens to a 1080p signal fed to it?

I have searched the Panasonic website hoping to find the manual, but can' even find the pj listed.

Since we're currently finishing our new house as we live in it and out HT room is kind of my 'theraoy project', we are looking at 1Q '06 to buy the projector. I of course, being male, want the besest, coolest, biggest gadget I can afford. Therefore I need to be informed and not end up with buyers remorse shortly after buying this expensive toy.

Right now I'm not sure whether to go for the Optoma H78, H79 or the Panny AE900. Or wait a bit more for true 1080p to see what price range they come at.

Thanks for any help.

Jerry

Ae900 can't reach 1080p. It's 1080i, not progressive. :o

If the AE900 does have a Max Res of 1920 x 1080, is it only for PC input?
No, you can get 1080i with HDTV and the new formats like bluray or HDdvd to. Or even with a good DVDplayer (like Marantz dv8600 or Denon’s new A1XVA)

If the AE900 does have a Max Res of 1920 x 1080, what happens to a 1080p signal fed to it?
The projector downscales 1080p to 1080i.

The "i" and "p" indicate whether the signal is interlaced or progressive. In an interlaced signal, all of the even numbered lines are transmitted in one batch, followed by all of the odd numbered lines. (This is done to reduce transmission bandwidth.) In a progressive signal, all lines of the frame are transmitted at once in sequence. So with the interlaced 1080i signal, only 540 lines are recorded by the camera and transmitted at a time; they are then reassembled at the time of display. Meanwhile, with 720p, all 720 lines are recorded and transmitted in sequence.

So a 1080i signal has 1920 pixels horizontally. That is why you will sometimes see the actual resolution of the 1080i format designated as 1920x1080. (If you divide 1920 by 16, then multiply the result by 9, you get 1080.)

The fact is that both 1080i and 720p are great HDTV formats that look a lot better than standard television. Both formats are being broadcast by the major networks today, so your projector needs to be able to display both of them, and all projectors that are HDTV compatible do in fact display both of them.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/true_hdtv.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/maximum_resolution.htm

The ae900 can be found on Panasonic's website in the Business section. Wonder why that it? Anyways, here it is

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=94768&catGroupId=21360&modelNo=PT-AE900U&surfModel=PT-AE900U

Interestingly enough, the manual on page 64 reads it can support 1080/50i, 1080/60i, and 1080/24p.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoMac
Oops. Offer good 10/26/05 through Monday 10/31/05.



You might want to check out the actual rebate form here.

I looked at the rebate form and it says:
1. To receive your $200 rebate, purchase a Panasonic PT-AE900 between October 26th and December 31st, 2005. So it looks like this deal should be good until the end of the year

Interestingly enough, the manual on page 64 reads it can support 1080/50i, 1080/60i, and 1080/24p.

This debate already happened on another thread. Yes, it supports those resolutions. All that means is if you input that signal, the projector will understand it and scale it down to 720p. That is the panel size. It will never be able to display MORE than 720p ;)

I looked at the rebate form and it says:
1. To receive your $200 rebate, purchase a Panasonic PT-AE900 between October 26th and December 31st, 2005. So it looks like this deal should be good until the end of the year

It also mentions you can do the rebate on their website, but I can't find it on the Panasonic's site. Anyone has a link & info?

Thanks

>To receive your $200 rebate, purchase a Panasonic PT-AE900 between October >26th and December 31st, 2005. So it looks like this deal should be good until >the end of the year

Unbelievable for those who just bought weeks earlier.

Steve.

RCN_Moose -- According to the AE700 manual, the answer is no - you can't get 480i over HDMI. The 480i signal is considered to be an analog signal only. I would assume the AE900 is the same.

BTW, I don't think there are any sources that provide 480i signals on their HDMI outputs, since that signal is not in the HDMI spec.

Scientific Atlanta's 8300HD box passes 480i via HDMI. I have mine set that way so it will also pass 480i via component (both sets are active at the same time) to my DVD recorder allowing me to record actual 16X9 content. My Panasonic plasma accepts it just fine.

It also mentions you can do the rebate on their website, but I can't find it on the Panasonic's site. Anyone has a link & info?

Thanks

I posted a link to the rebate form on the previous page here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6431134&&#post6431134).

This debate already happened on another thread. Yes, it supports those resolutions. All that means is if you input that signal, the projector will understand it and scale it down to 720p. That is the panel size. It will never be able to display MORE than 720p ;)
Yes I'm quite aware of the PJ's 720p native resolution. I said the PJ supports those resolutions but I did not say the PJ will display them at those resolutions. Please don't add words to my mouth.

Hey everyone, first time poster here and about to be first time projector owner. Like many others, I think I've narrowed it down to the AE900 or the Z4. (I've looked at DLPs and I see rainbows, so no DLP for me...)

One thing that hasn't been talked about much is the fact that the Z4 has a 12 bit IC, where the AE900 only has a 10 bit IC. Is this a minor difference? On another thread someone mentioned that it only gives "additional headroom to make a more accurate conversion". Yet, I found this on a website about the Z4:

"TopazReal technology ensures higher-definition projection of all video formats.
Improved video signal processing 12bit digital imaging gives 4096 gradations for each of the RGB channels delivering over 60 times more colour shades than it's predecessor the Z3. (Which was already 60 x more than most 8 Bit DLP models... --- AIM)

Regardless of the source, the Z4 achieves beautiful projection and impressive colour precision with over 68 billion graduations of colour.
.
.
.
Interestingly, all of these units have now moved to 10bit image processing, with the benefits of over a billion colours against 17.7 million found in the DLP competitors. However, a significant advance in the Z4 has been the move to 12 bit image processing circuits for the decoder, scaler and gamma correction - the best ever. To put this simply, more processing power means more capacity to deliver outstanding and faithful image reproduction."


So, if I'm reading that right, the AE900 (having a 10 bit IC) can only reproduced somewhere over 1 billion colors. However, the Z4 (having the 12 bit IC) can product over 68 billion colors! If this is correct, that seems to be a HUGE difference that shouldn't be overlooked, especially with hi-def DVDs on the horizon. Or is this one of the "paper" differences that really don't pan out in the real world?

Thanks for any insight you can offer...

Alan

So, if I'm reading that right, the AE900 (having a 10 bit IC) can only reproduced somewhere over 1 billion colors. However, the Z4 (having the 12 bit IC) can product over 68 billion colors! If this is correct, that seems to be a HUGE difference that shouldn't be overlooked, especially with hi-def DVDs on the horizon. Or is this one of the "paper" differences that really don't pan out in the real world?

Thanks for any insight you can offer...

Alan


I wouldnt get hung up on it. Merely Epson blowing their own horn. I doubt you would notice any difference in 68 Billion colours and 1 billion colours, there is only so much the eye can see. Remember that there are a lot of reviews out there stating that the Panasonic has an equal if not better image than the Z4.

Think of it like this: CD format audio is around 44,000 Hz. The human ear is only believed to be able to hear (this is subjective) up to and around 22,000 Hz, so the makers of the original format of CD decided to double it to 44,000 Hz and thus ensuring that everyone would experince a great sound and wouldnt loose out on anything.

Then comes along DVD-A at 196,000 Hz. Think of that as the 10 bit Panasonic. 196,000 is more than enough for anyone, but say someone comes out with a 512,000 Hz audio format (think of this as the 12bit Sanyo). There will be no gain in the quality of the sound you hear, its merely just added frequency.

This would be my take on 1 billion colours versus 68 billion

Chris

I am thinking of going with the AE900. I recently purchased a 92" Silverstar Screen by VuTech. I have a fair amount of ambient light in the family room, where the projector will be. A few questions:

1. How does the AE900 do with ambient light situations?

2. What does everyone think of the AE900 and Silverstar combination?

~Josh

I was all set to throw out $6700.00 Canadian on an InFocus 7205 until last night when I viewed the AE900. They both have nice pictures, but the InFocus image is not $4000.00 better than the AE900. I'll now be buying the AE900 next month and am certain I'm making the right choice. The Sanyo A7 looks good on paper, but I don't trust that companies products like I do Panasonic. I can take paying $2700.00 on a product in the belief that I may upgrade in a few years to a 3 Chip DLP when the come down in price to around $5000.00 US, but right now, LCD has won me over.

Chris,

Thanks for the explanation. So it's like I figured - The 12 bit IC looks great on paper, but in the real world it probably doesn't make a lick of difference, except for the fact than they can gloat about having the first 12 bit IC at this price point. :-)
Now if only I could lay my eyes on both the Z4 and the AE900 at once, I could make a decision. However, sight unseen, I think I'm still leaning towards the Z4 because of the longer warrantee, greater lens shift, cleaning holes, and panel adjustments. I also plan on doing a lot with an HTPC, so Smooth Screen worries me a little. I'd think the sharper the image, the better, for producing text.

The fact of the matter is, since it's going to be my first projector, I'll probably be blown away by either choice! I guess I just like torturing myself. Decisions, decisions...


Thanks,

Alan

P.S. BTW, it's 44,100 Hz. ;-)

So it's like I figured - The 12 bit IC looks great on paper, but in the real world it probably doesn't make a lick of difference, except for the fact than they can gloat about having the first 12 bit IC at this price point. :-)
It might make a difference, just not really where you thought. The main place I think it could be an advantage is in doing scaling and the gamma modification on a frame-by-frame basis that a dynamic iris requires. Basically, with 12 bit vs 10 bit processing there may the opportunity for more precision with some things (like less banding in the images).

--Darin

Good point, Darin. Maybe the 12 bit IC shouldn't be discounted altogether, but taken with a grain of salt at the very least. However, since I like to research things, here is a follow-up to Chris' comment on not being able to see that many colors. From Macromedia's website:

"The color of a pixel in a 32-bit image can be one of roughly 16.7 million colors in a so-called true-color image. (It's called true color because the number of colors the human eye can detect is approximately 16.7 million colors ."

In light of that, even a billion colors seems like overkill... but I'll digress.

Alan

Seems to me the rebate was offered to sway people away from the Sanyo since it is getting better reviews I heard. Too bad the people that bought already aren't elegible. That is messed up. I think they need to call their dealers and work them for not honoring the rebate!

Seems to me the rebate was offered to sway people away from the Sanyo since it is getting better reviews I heard. Too bad the people that bought already aren't elegible. That is messed up. I think they need to call their dealers and work them for not honoring the rebate!
While they're at it, maybe they can go hassle the manager of a local store who has a sale this week on an item they purchased last week.

--Darin

While they're at it, maybe they can go hassle the manager of a local store who has a sale this week on an item they purchased last week.

--Darin

LOL :D

Even that would be more justified than the Panny situation. The dealers didn't create the rebate, Panny did and didn't tell the dealers about it until Tuesday.

Still Panasonic stated that something was going to be on the website why they are offering the rebate. Strangely enough, after 2 days, its still not there. I switched from the BenQ PE7700 to this one and the rebate was one of the main reasons. I researched the BenQ for 6 months or so.

My 900 has shipped today and should be here next Tuesday. Going to be setup on a 106 inch HCMW Electric Da-Lite Designer Countour screen in a 100% light controlled room. I'm psyched!

cHIRS,
44.1 KHz in RBCD is not a highest frequesnce responce but a sampling rate.
a frequience extends up to 20KHz, perhaps a tiny bit more.

Think of it like this: CD format audio is around 44,000 Hz. The human ear is only believed to be able to hear (this is subjective) up to and around 22,000 Hz, so the makers of the original format of CD decided to double it to 44,000 Hz and thus ensuring that everyone would experince a great sound and wouldnt loose out on anything.
Chris

The 44,000 Hz you refer to above, is actually the sampling rate (to be precise, 44,100 Hz). This is based upon Nyquist theory that says you need at least two samples of an analog waveform per cycle in order to reproduce the signal. That means you only have about 22,000 Hz in analog available on a standard music CD.

Here is a link to further explanation: http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs/audio/44.1.html

While they're at it, maybe they can go hassle the manager of a local store who has a sale this week on an item they purchased last week.

--Darin

Actually it is true in a lot of cases (and gaining popularity). I bought a HP laptop at Costco. Two weeks later they offered $100.00 off on the same model during a special sale. I talked to them and they gave me $100.00 back. It is their policy to refund the difference if the item you bought was on sale within 30 days after you bought it. It is the same way with Dillars, Gap, Macy, etc.

Don't you boys ever shop?

I hardly think that Panasonic offered this rebate to take sales away from the Sanyo Z4. From what I've read, the Sanyo is not getting better reviews than the Panasonic. Just different strengths and weakness for each projector.

I was told in another thread that the AE900 does 1280x720. Does anyone know if there's a fix out for the AE700 that will make it do the proper 1280x720 too? It still annoys me greatly.

Ae900 can't reach 1080p. It's 1080i, not progressive. :o

If the AE900 does have a Max Res of 1920 x 1080, is it only for PC input?
No, you can get 1080i with HDTV and the new formats like bluray or HDdvd to. Or even with a good DVDplayer (like Marantz dv8600 or Denon’s new A1XVA)

If the AE900 does have a Max Res of 1920 x 1080, what happens to a 1080p signal fed to it?
The projector downscales 1080p to 1080i.

The "i" and "p" indicate whether the signal is interlaced or progressive. In an interlaced signal, all of the even numbered lines are transmitted in one batch, followed by all of the odd numbered lines. (This is done to reduce transmission bandwidth.) In a progressive signal, all lines of the frame are transmitted at once in sequence. So with the interlaced 1080i signal, only 540 lines are recorded by the camera and transmitted at a time; they are then reassembled at the time of display. Meanwhile, with 720p, all 720 lines are recorded and transmitted in sequence.

So a 1080i signal has 1920 pixels horizontally. That is why you will sometimes see the actual resolution of the 1080i format designated as 1920x1080. (If you divide 1920 by 16, then multiply the result by 9, you get 1080.)

The fact is that both 1080i and 720p are great HDTV formats that look a lot better than standard television. Both formats are being broadcast by the major networks today, so your projector needs to be able to display both of them, and all projectors that are HDTV compatible do in fact display both of them.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/true_hdtv.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/maximum_resolution.htm

AlexPN,
Thanks. I should have said that I understand the technology of 'i' and 'p'. I have a Dish Network 811 HD receiver and it used to be hooked up to a Toshiba 65" RPTV. We ran it at 1080i and it was incredible! Unfortunately, we moved and the 400 lb tv stayed in that house..

The whole fp arena is new, although we are currently using an Infocus LitePro 580 that my wife bought for $10 a few years ago.

I hope you can understand my confusion from reading the websites I listed. My understanding was that the AE900 is capable of 1080i, but whaen Max Res is stated as 1920 x 1080 and another site lists 1080p, it make one wonder.

Thanks again.

So to those fortunate enough to have the AE900, which do you frefer for sports viewing, 720p or 1080i? How does HD look?

Alan, you will in fact, be blown away by either purchase!

Originally posted by DigitalC
"I was reading some where that the way the AE900 produces it's high contrast and deep blacks is by the iris cutting out lumens during dark scenes. It said that when this happens you can tell a big difference in the over all experience because the scenes drastically change from light to dark and dark to light. I was thinking of getting one of these pj's, but not if it was that big of a deal. Anyone experiencing this?/ comments?"


Gee DigitalC, that's a great question. I wonder why no one steps foward to defend their beloved projector, it must be the truth.

Maybe you should think about DLP instead.

Sorry you didn't get a response, but this has been discussed before in this thread. Basically, with the iris changes at 60 times a second, you don't see any drastic change of lumen output. At least I don't.

Originally posted by DigitalC


Gee DigitalC, that's a great question. I wonder why no one steps foward to defend their beloved projector, it must be the truth.

Maybe you should think about DLP instead.

There is no reason to get "short" with the membership. One of the ways to find info in a long master thread is to use the search within a thread feature. This way you can find info quickly and not have to wait for someone to respond to a question that has come up before.

Ron

Tony,

Yeah, when I finally take the plunge I think I'll be like the guy in that old commercial (TDK, I think). He turns on the stereo and it's like he's in a wind tunnel, things are sliding off his table, etc. Only it will be the visuals that will blow me away, of course.

But anyway, to add to the discussion, how often have previous owners of Panny AE models had to have their projectors serviced because of dust on the panels? Never, once, more? I'm still weighing the options, and the self cleaning ability of the Z4 sounds handy... but maybe it's something that nobody really needs...

Thanks for any input,

Alan

Good point, Darin. Maybe the 12 bit IC shouldn't be discounted altogether, but taken with a grain of salt at the very least. However, since I like to research things, here is a follow-up to Chris' comment on not being able to see that many colors. From Macromedia's website:

"The color of a pixel in a 32-bit image can be one of roughly 16.7 million colors in a so-called true-color image. (It's called true color because the number of colors the human eye can detect is approximately 16.7 million colors ."

In light of that, even a billion colors seems like overkill... but I'll digress.

Alan

Yeah, good man for doing the research on the colours. As DarinP said, there are other advantages of the 12 bit processing, but im not technical enough to know them lol. However, my point was merely about the 68 billion colour in overkill like you said Alan, and your point about overkill on the 1 billion colours is probably a fair one too.

Cheers
Chris

I've heard extra frequency response described as having somewhat of a subliminal impact (for lack of a better way of putting it) on what you hear. Even though you can't pick up frequencies beyond 20K they are still contributing to the overall sonic "fabric". The same probably holds true for image processing. Ultimately all the technical mumbo jumbo adds up to either a good picture or not - they entire system employed to generate that image is going to be more important than one individual part. And by all accounts both of these projectors are delivering fabulous images, frankly better then they have a right to given the inherent limitations of LCD technology and the relative pittance you're paying for them. I'm considering the whole package between the two and am very much leaning towards the Z4 because of the install flexibility.

I also wanted to note that I quickly checked my PT-AE900 (still in the box waiting for possible flip to the Z4) and can confirm that it displays vertical banding. I've never seen this artifact before so it's new to me - presents as a faint grid of vertical lines slightly diagonal and wandering covering the entire screen, most visible in areas of flat mid-tones. Clearly visible from about 1.6x screen width (36 degree field of vision across an 87" wide 16:9 screen).

"There is no reason to get "short" with the membership. One of the ways to find info in a long master thread is to use the search within a thread feature. This way you can find info quickly and not have to wait for someone to respond to a question that has come up before.

Ron "

Hey guys, I was using sarcasm to try to get a response. I'm not mad or getting "short", just kidding around. I thought I would just throw the DLP thing in there to catch some attention. Sorry I missed the discussion about the iris before, maybe it's the Z4 that has a real issue with this. I just don't want a pj that is constantly getting bright and and dark.

DigitalC,

I'm also curious / concerned about noticing the iris in operation. However, the lack of discussion about the iris in this thread leads me to believe that it's a non-issue. Would others (specifically those that already own the AE900) agree with that?

It will be nice to start reading more people's perceptions of the iris on the Z4 once they become more readily available, since the Z4 has the slower iris, IIRC.

Alan

Chris,

Thanks for the explanation. So it's like I figured - The 12 bit IC looks great on paper, but in the real world it probably doesn't make a lick of difference, except for the fact than they can gloat about having the first 12 bit IC at this price point. :-)
Now if only I could lay my eyes on both the Z4 and the AE900 at once, I could make a decision. However, sight unseen, I think I'm still leaning towards the Z4 because of the longer warrantee, greater lens shift, cleaning holes, and panel adjustments. I also plan on doing a lot with an HTPC, so Smooth Screen worries me a little. I'd think the sharper the image, the better, for producing text.

The fact of the matter is, since it's going to be my first projector, I'll probably be blown away by either choice! I guess I just like torturing myself. Decisions, decisions...


Thanks,

Alan

P.S. BTW, it's 44,100 Hz. ;-)
From what I read here, smoothscreen doesn't seem to be an issue on the AE900 with a PC. On the other hand, it seems that on the Z4 you can't completely disable sharpening/edge enhancement so that could be a problem in this case. Anyone can confirm these ?
I am in the same boat, trying to decide between the 2 and I would too use an HTPC.

How is the peak-a-boo situation with the AE900?

CPC, what do you want to know...or do I mean see?

How visible are peak-a-boo scanlines with the AE900?

...so far at least.

Peak-a-boo's did tend to be less noticable when there was less or no vertical banding.

AE900--My first impressions

Ordered this on Thursday from "some japanese website known for good prices", got it in the mail on Friday. Why can't Amazon do that?

First off, the on-screen display (OSD) is in Japanese. The manual is in Japanese. The remote control buttons are in Japanese. The warranty is in Japanese. The English version of the manual is not available for download. I do not read Japanese yet.

The image is set up for desktop mounting. I mounted mine from the ceiling inverted. The image, as one would expect was inverted. I learned my first Japanese characters and set the projector setting to indicate that it was ceiling mounted.

Connecting was fairly straightforward after getting a DVI to HDMI adapter. It is much brighter than the AE500 and the colors are more saturated. I turned the saturation down a few notches, after learning my second set of Japanese characters in the process. Also, the default settings crop the image by about 15-20 pixels around all four edges. Here I learned by third set of Japanese characters and turned that #%!$ off.

I would have to say my favorite new feature is a little joystick-like control next to the lens that actually aims the lens at the screen in very precise movements. This is awesome for those of us who ceiling mount our projectors.

It is important to have the projector as close to centered both horizontally and vertically with the screen. There is a keystone adjustment, but it causes distortion that is quite noticable when viewing text on the screen.

In summary, I really like the projector in the first few hours of operation.

あなたに, Roboto 氏非常に感謝しなさい。

Connecting was fairly straightforward after getting a DVI to HDMI adapter. It is much brighter than the AE500

Comparing it to the 500, how many hours were on the 500 bulb?

I bought my PJ on the 25th, havent even hooked it up yet. Taking it back tomorrow and will either have them fix the receipt to show a valid rebate date or send the damn thing back. Sickening to miss out on $200 for a 24 hour earlier purchase.

This PJ is an AMAZING value when the rebate is figured in, IMO.

Sam

I'm having a problem with my AE900. I received the PJ last Friday, set it up the next day and watched my first movie, Batman and most of T2, DVD player is the Sammy HD850 conected via HDMI. The next morning, Sunday, a freind came over to check out the new PJ and she brought with her a few concert DVD's. We watched only about 10 minutes of each and shut the PJ down. A few hours later I hooked up my old Voom box via component using the Pio Elite VSX-54TX. Everything worked fine, I was getting all my local Digital/HD channels and watched maybe 30-40 minutes and then powered everything off. Now, to this point, I was only powering off the PJ to standby mode.

So, after another couple of hours, it was time to watch the World Series. I go to turn the PJ on, I hit the power button on the PJ and the green led starts to flash only this time it keeps flashing longer than before and I wasn't getting an image. After what felt like a minute but was probably closer to 15 or 20 seconds, the PJ went into Standby mode, the cooling fan switched on and the red "Lamp" LED began to flash. Before consulting the manual, I decided to switch the main power off, give it a few minutes and try again. The same thing happened so I switched the PJ off and checked the manual. According to the manual, when the lamp indicator flashes the problem is that "An abnormallity has been detected in the lamp circuit", and the possible causes for the problem are "The power may have been turned on straght away after it was truned off" or "There may be an abnormality in the lamp circuit." The remedies listed were "Wait for a while until the lamp unit cools down..." for the first cause and "...contact an Authorized Service Center" for the second cause.

Hoping that the problem was me trying to use the PJ to soon after I powered it off last, I decided to wait few more hours and try again. I began to watch the World series and around the 6th inning I decided to try the PJ again and wouldn't you know it, it worked like a champ. I watched the rest of the game and breathed a sigh of relef that the problem wasn't more serious.

The next two nights, I watched a movie with no porblems. I did not use the PJ Wednesday or Thursday. Tonight, Friday, my sister came over and wanted to see the new PJ. And ofcourse, you know what happned next, it did not turn on and it was the same problem as before. This time, there is no way I didn't wait long enough before using it.

Needless to say, I will be contacting the dealer(a forum sponsor) I pruchased the PJ from to arange for an exchange. Has anyone else experienced this problem? Could it be something I am doing? This is my first PJ so it could be user error but I doubt it.

Watching the matrix and what lands on my screen? But other than a mosquito. Now what do you do…can’t crush it b/c it would mark up the screen and you know it would leave a nasty stain so I tried to blow him off the screen but he kept coming back being the brightest light in the room. So I had a friend that had no problem watching the movie that close to the screen…didn’t complain about VB or “screen door effect” or any flickering with the image. So even nature loves the AE900u! But I killed him after the movie.

Steve.

80 hours on the Lamp and still going!

Hey ABCD,

Check out my post at number 777 or try the link below...u get the same? Check out my pictures.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6408038&&#post6408038

Steve.

I get VB on my AE700, it looks very similiar to your photo. I was hoping that would be fixed on the 900.

From your photo of the bottom of the image, it appears that the middle is higher than the edges, the opposite of what I get. Mine is ceiling mounted, I assume yours is table?

I unhooked my projector from the ceiling today and took it to a local dealer to compare it with the 900.

Well, it is a tough call. Overall to my eyes the 900 seems to "pop" a bit more. It is a bit brighter, better contrast, deeper blacks. All clearly visable on paused sceens looking closely. Watching darker movies like, Van Helsing (HD Clips) was where you could see the most difference. Watching brighter HD material made it more difficult to tell the difference between the two. There is a difference, but even my dealer said he thought it would be more drastic.

I have decided I will only upgrade if I can get someone to buy my 500 for a grand or so. I think the 900 is worth another $1100 but not worth $2100 to me. I have some friends that might be interested in the 500 as their first projector so it may happen, or it may not. Either way, I am impressed with my 500. I have seen lots of projectors but am continually impressed with the value Panisonic can deliver at the 2K price point year after year. I assume the next model will be a 1080p and I hope it will be close to the same price point. The only projector I have seen that can beat it hands down no contest is the Qualia. Ever other projector I have seen up to the 15K price point it is close. Of course that is my opinion.

Mounting may be an issue as well but my dealer said it would be fine. My 500 is snug to the ceiling dead center. The top of my screen is fairly close to the ceiling so I don't think it will be an issue but I don't fully understand the issue so I would have to look into it more if on of my buddies made me an offer.

Honestly, I was expecting to be more impressed with the 900 than I was. I like the brighter image, and a bit better shadow detail and the deeper blacks. I just expected the difference to be more noticeable.

On VB I saw it only once and then only mildly. It was an HD sceen of off white clouds and we paused it and looked close and it was there. My 500 has never had any VB that I have seen and it did not in this instance either. In my opinion VB is not an issue with the unit I saw (it had about 5 hours on the lamp).

In conclusion, if no one buys my projector I will still be extreemly happy with the HD/SD/DVD I watch all the time with my 500. It looks sweet. The 900 would be nice but I can wait another year without a second thought.

<<">To receive your $200 rebate, purchase a Panasonic PT-AE900 between October >26th and December 31st, 2005. So it looks like this deal should be good until >the end of the year

Unbelievable for those who just bought weeks earlier.

Steve.">>

From some gossip (read somewhere else on AVS, but lord if I can remember where...probably earlier in this thread? Maybe in the z4 thread?...): Early sales of the 900 were less than Panny expected. Meanwhile, I think MSRP was just a bit more than the 700 at launch a year ago, so maybe this is just a logical "adjustment," esp. given the long-term rebate on the 700 from late spring forwards.

They needed to clear out 700 stock, anyway, and have managed, admirably, to keep product in the sales channels during the transition (700s and 900s, both). So, maybe this explains it.

Regarding the rebate, I would imagine that many dealers would work with you over this--they'd surely rather help you get it, than to, say, deal with a "no questions asked" return, merely to turn around and send the PJ right back ti you (or, worse, deal with sending it back to Panny for open-box refurb), right? I used to work in the biz. I would! Talk to them and see!

Alan2005: Wasn't it a Maxell ad? Doh! Many moons ago (um, the undergrad days of my life are fading into sepia tones!), I owned that poster! And, I can't even remember! Doncha hate that? :eek:

<< あなたに, Roboto 氏非常に感謝しなさい。>>

LOL at the transliteration experiences. You tell a nice story. (Mebbe I buy some Japanese product, no?)

"There's an adventure in every bowl of Alphabits..." esp. when the alphabits are all funny lookin' little ideogram thingamajigs... :D

I'm trying to build a DIY ceiling mount for the AE900. I have everything figured out, except for the screw size that goes into the mounting holes of the projector.

I took the projector to Home Depot so I could try all of the options. The best fit I got was from a #8-32. It may fit well enough to work, but it's not right.

Can anyone help with this? Thanks.

I wouldnt get hung up on it. Merely Epson blowing their own horn. I doubt you would notice any difference in 68 Billion colours and 1 billion colours, there is only so much the eye can see. Remember that there are a lot of reviews out there stating that the Panasonic has an equal if not better image than the Z4.

Think of it like this: CD format audio is around 44,000 Hz. The human ear is only believed to be able to hear (this is subjective) up to and around 22,000 Hz, so the makers of the original format of CD decided to double it to 44,000 Hz and thus ensuring that everyone would experince a great sound and wouldnt loose out on anything.

Then comes along DVD-A at 196,000 Hz. Think of that as the 10 bit Panasonic. 196,000 is more than enough for anyone, but say someone comes out with a 512,000 Hz audio format (think of this as the 12bit Sanyo). There will be no gain in the quality of the sound you hear, its merely just added frequency.

This would be my take on 1 billion colours versus 68 billion

Chris

Wrong - don't confuse frequency range with the number of colors that humans can perceive. Our eyes, like all animals, are sensitive to very specific wave lengths frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum. This is called the visual light spectrum. Within this spectrum there are unlimited frequencies that can be create. However our eyes have cones that are receptive to primary colors (red, blue and yellow frequencies) and our brain intrepret the signals received by these cones intrepret the colors that we see. Bottomline, just as there are an unlimited number of sounds that we can hear within the human audio frequency range, there are unlimited colors that we can see within the visual light spectum.

Your comment about the frequency rate of the CDs/DVD-A is not the audio range that is produced, but the sampling rate by with the digital data is retreived from the digital media, the faster the rate the closer the transfer of data approximates analog production. In theory the sampling rate of digital must be a least twice as fast as what we can hear - so the upper limits of human hearing is at 20,000 Hz so the mimium sampling rate for digital must be 40,000 Hz. The higher rates that at produced by DVD-A is thought be better able to approximate the analog frequencies at the higer end at the human hearing frequency. Digital data contains a lot of errors (missing data) so these high rates are needed to give the machine time to correct the errors before we can perceive the errors as noise.

Digital projectors are approximating what nature does but cannot produce the unlimited combinations that is present in an analog range. The question is, "How does a particular human perceive the colors produced by a particular machine?"
When stereo was king - there was a common sense saying that kept everything in check, "you cannot hear specs." Meaning nothing beats a real world demostration of the product in an environment that approximates your environment.

Good point, Darin. Maybe the 12 bit IC shouldn't be discounted altogether, but taken with a grain of salt at the very least. However, since I like to research things, here is a follow-up to Chris' comment on not being able to see that many colors. From Macromedia's website:

"The color of a pixel in a 32-bit image can be one of roughly 16.7 million colors in a so-called true-color image. (It's called true color because the number of colors the human eye can detect is approximately 16.7 million colors ."

In light of that, even a billion colors seems like overkill... but I'll digress.

Alan

Not true - True Color is a marketing term - there is no limit the number of colors that humans can see, as long it is a combination of the primary colors (red, blue or yellow). We see perceive color as analog frequencies, not digital.

Reading back on CKL's review and he noted the following (limited to Panasonic and Z4):

color - AE900, Z4
contrast - AE900, Z4
sharpness -Z4, AE900
brightness - AE900, Z4
blacks - AE900, Z4
lack of sde - AE900, Z4
less noise - Z4, AE900
Auto Iris effective- AE900, Z4
Auto Iris smoothness- AE900/Z4
1080i processing - Z4, AE900

Based on this review the 900 wins on almost all image performance parameters except for sharpness and noise. The Projector Central comparison conflicts with some of these results in that black levels were superior with the Panny on low average picture levels (ex. deep space) whereas the Z4 showed better with higher levels. Without messing around with filters which to believe? The PC review indicated an overall higher perceived contrast as a result. Also, how much perceived benefit would be achieved with a gray screen (specifically Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision)?

CKL shows a tie between iris smoothness, which I interpret as not seeing any "flutter" as the iris opens and closes from scene to scene. I've heard comments that the Z4 not being as fast may have a perceptible flashing artifact that I imagine would be distracting and fatiguing. Further information in this regard?

I'm yanking out what's left of my hair trying to decide between these two units. I'm very, very much in favor of the Z4 strictly because of its useful range of lens offset allowing me to pin to the ceiling (with the 900 it will hang down to eye level when standing on the riser, albeit behind the seats, so anyone who stands up and turns around will see a supernova). Ultimately my question is without the benefit of direct comparison would I even notice any of the Z4's performance trade-offs as noted above (although it did fare better in the Projector Central review)?

For bugs on the screen, use a vacuum cleaner....carefully.

I'm trying to build a DIY ceiling mount for the AE900. I have everything figured out, except for the screw size that goes into the mounting holes of the projector.

I took the projector to Home Depot so I could try all of the options. The best fit I got was from a #8-32. It may fit well enough to work, but it's not right.

Can anyone help with this? Thanks.

They are M4 metric.

DE

I'm yanking out what's left of my hair trying to decide between these two units. I'm very, very much in favor of the Z4 strictly because of its useful range of lens offset allowing me to pin to the ceiling (with the 900 it will hang down to eye level when standing on the riser, albeit behind the seats, so anyone who stands up and turns around will see a supernova). Ultimately my question is without the benefit of direct comparison would I even notice any of the Z4's performance trade-offs as noted above (although it did fare better in the Projector Central review)?

Save some hair for your comb.

Unless you are some sort of home theatre supersensitive expert, I'm sure you would be happy with either projector.

I debated both and finally when with the Panasonic becuase of a nearby dealer and convenience. Maybe side by side you could detect some subtle differences. But on their own, both are fantastic projectors that are big improvements over the high end projectors of 3 or 5 years ago.

You will be happy, regardless of which one you get.

Laz

I was told in another thread that the AE900 does 1280x720. Does anyone know if there's a fix out for the AE700 that will make it do the proper 1280x720 too? It still annoys me greatly.

I assume you are referring to the HDMI input. The 700 *does* pixel map properly, but the HDMI input remains cropped unfortunately. VGA is fine.

ted

Comparing it to the 500, how many hours were on the 500 bulb?

I had over 3000 hours on it, then the projector died completely. Even when new, it was not a bright and intense as the 900.

Is anyone else disappointed by the picture quality of the AE900?? I've had an AE100 for 3 years and loved every minute with it but felt it was time to upgrade with HDTV just around the corner here in the UK. The mounting plate for my ceiling mount are the same for the AE900 as my old AE100 so the AE900 looked like the perfect upgrade.

I got mine on Tuesday and have been playing around with lots of different sources including my Harman Kardon DVD-25 (480p via component) and my PC running at 1280x720 (720p) using WinDVD 7. So far I haven't really been gobsmacked by the picture and I haven't felt the need to show it off to anyone.

The picture quality is a big let down. Sure, the contrast is greatly improved, there's zero SDE and it is quieter but the picture is so blurred that I get eye strain. I bought a HD ready projector so that HD material would be pin sharp which it isn't with the AE900. Even the PC desktop at it's "sharpest" is still blurred.

If this is what SmoothScreen technology does then why bother??? It has the same effect as smearing vaseline on the lens. No wonder other manufacturers haven't tried to copy it. I'd choose SDE over a blurred picture any day.

Also on the Dreamworks logo, I can see vertical banding as the clouds pass by.

If you are interested in the AE900 make sure you see a demo. Don't make the £1300 mistake that I did.

:mad:

Although I am not a big fan of smooth screen, I would not write off the AE900 yet. It seems from reports here that some models are less sharp than others. There seems to be a convergence problem with some. If you can see another unit in action, take a look. At the very least, have yours attended to under warranty. Perhaps it is a faulty unit and another unit may work much better.

I wish somebody knew whether it was technically and physically possible to remove the smooth screen aparatus from the Panasonic projectors light path. Perhaps the smooth screen part, which is probably a type of imx lens optics, is a physically separate part which can be removed, or maybe its integrated to another part in the projector. I wish somebody like cine4home would explore this.

As for the vertical banding, it seems to be present in enough units that it is still an issue for some. So far it seems possible that it is less of a problem, and noticable by fewer people than previous models. Still, its quite a let down that a completely new panel still tends to have this problem to some degree. The big annoyance with vb is the fact that it varies from unit to unit, and some have said it goes away after 100 or 200 hours, while others say it can appear when it wasn't there previously, or become worse. Perhaps some people who are bothered by it get used to it, and people who didn't notice it, begin to recognize it, but I suspect the units themselves are the issue. I think its safe to say that the biggest concern for a great deal of LCD projector owners nowadays is vertical banding. What a pain. Perhaps I'll seriously consider a Sony or even a CRT next time. (yes I know some see vertical banding on the Sony projector, but I am pretty sure its much less of a problem).

This is the only projector I have ever seen with "SmoothScreen technology" so I don't know what normal is.

On my windows desktop running at 1280x720, should I be able to see individual pixels?? On mine even with the focus as sharp as I can get it, the pixels are so blurred that they merge toegther. Even from less than 1 foot away, I don't see any pixels. Is this normal?

How do movie scenes look? Are close-ups of peoples faces sharp? Can you see individual pixels in the projectors OSD?

Can you see another unit working and compare the two? You won't know what normal is unless you compare it with something else.

I've been considering this pj for my ht but not if the smoothscreen is that bad. One of my main inputs will be XBOX360 with native 720p. If the hd image is not sharp and crisp then this pj may not be for me. I guess I need to demo one to see for myself.

Chris,

Thanks for the explanation. So it's like I figured - The 12 bit IC looks great on paper, but in the real world it probably doesn't make a lick of difference, except for the fact than they can gloat about having the first 12 bit IC at this price point. :-)
Now if only I could lay my eyes on both the Z4 and the AE900 at once, I could make a decision. However, sight unseen, I think I'm still leaning towards the Z4 because of the longer warrantee, greater lens shift, cleaning holes, and panel adjustments. I also plan on doing a lot with an HTPC, so Smooth Screen worries me a little. I'd think the sharper the image, the better, for producing text.

The fact of the matter is, since it's going to be my first projector, I'll probably be blown away by either choice! I guess I just like torturing myself. Decisions, decisions...


Thanks,

Alan

P.S. BTW, it's 44,100 Hz. ;-)

Look carefully at the Sanyo warranty. There are a lot of exclusions, according to my local dealer. Also, he informed me that Sanyo almost never replaces units, but rather tries to repair them over and over, whereas Panasonic is pretty good about supplying a new unit. Another issue is that Sanyo doesn't consider a bad pixel or two to be a problem; Panasonic does.

No I've been told that Panasonic dont believe that 2 or 3 dead pixels is a problem. Apparently 4 or more are needed for a replacement LCD chip.

The picture quality is a big let down. Sure, the contrast is greatly improved, there's zero SDE and it is quieter but the picture is so blurred that I get eye strain. I bought a HD ready projector so that HD material would be pin sharp which it isn't with the AE900. Even the PC desktop at it's "sharpest" is still blurred.

Smoothscreen should not make the picture blurry. I've compared the 900 with a number of other projectors, recently including an Infocus 7210, and it's right up there with them in sharpness when properly set up. It does have a less "digital" look than some other projectors, but the picture is well defined. If your 900 has a blurry picture, I'd return it for another one.

I'm finally purchasing my projector this weekend, from an (almost) local vendor, as a nice bonus I managed to get in on the free bulb promotion that expires on Monday. I sure hope this is the right projector for us, after the months of reading this forum and reviews.


As a side note: I think that the vendor / manufacturer relationship is important. If you are purchasing from a company that has a satisfied and successful history with Panasonic for instance, in service and repair issues with a variety of products, then you are more likely to have a stress and hassel free encounter if you should have a problem with your unit. Purchasing from a vendor on the other hand that doensn't generally interact with the manufacturer, or has only the bottom line in mind, will not get you the best customer service possible.

This is often prevalent in the auto industry, where purchasing from a dealer that is customer service oriented, gives a much better servicing experience than the one who sees only the cash in hand, even though that service level may cost slightly more in the initial cash outlay, in the long run it is much more satisfying.

This is the only projector I have ever seen with "SmoothScreen technology" so I don't know what normal is.

On my windows desktop running at 1280x720, should I be able to see individual pixels?? On mine even with the focus as sharp as I can get it, the pixels are so blurred that they merge together. Even from less than 1 foot away, I don't see any pixels. Is this normal?

The best way to check you PJ's sharpness is to just view the menu. (takes away the possibility of your source being the problem) The menu should be crystal clear.

Can anyone tell me if an upconverting DVD player is necessary to get a better picture with the AE900, or will a good progressive scan player compliment it best?

Free bulb promotion?

sirjohn,
an upconverting player would be better because your eliminating the pj from having to do the work, you'll get a better image.