I assume you are referring to the HDMI input. The 700 *does* pixel map properly, but the HDMI input remains cropped unfortunately. VGA is fine.

ted

I thought there was a menu setting to remove the cropping, even with HDMI?

NilsP

I thought there was a menu setting to remove the cropping, even with HDMI?

NilsP

Apparantly there is a menu setting for the AE900 to eliminate cropping. On the AE700 there is not.

Tony 123,

Panasonic CANADA is shipping projectors ordered during October with a free spare bulb. Offer expires Oct. 31st.

Do many people use the serial interface to control the AE900? This would be my first foray into serial control. I guess I would need a HTPC and Girder to use it.?

color - AE900, Z4
contrast - AE900, Z4
sharpness -Z4, AE900
brightness - AE900, Z4
blacks - AE900, Z4
lack of sde - AE900, Z4
less noise - Z4, AE900
Auto Iris effective- AE900, Z4
Auto Iris smoothness- AE900/Z4
1080i processing - Z4, AE900


Reading back on CKL's review and he noted the following (limited to Panasonic and Z4):

Based on this review the 900 wins on almost all image performance parameters except for sharpness and noise. The Projector Central comparison conflicts with some of these results in that black levels were superior with the Panny on low average picture levels (ex. deep space) whereas the Z4 showed better with higher levels. Without messing around with filters which to believe? The PC review indicated an overall higher perceived contrast as a result. Also, how much perceived benefit would be achieved with a gray screen (specifically Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision)?

CKL shows a tie between iris smoothness, which I interpret as not seeing any "flutter" as the iris opens and closes from scene to scene. I've heard comments that the Z4 not being as fast may have a perceptible flashing artifact that I imagine would be distracting and fatiguing. Further information in this regard?

I'm yanking out what's left of my hair trying to decide between these two units. I'm very, very much in favor of the Z4 strictly because of its useful range of lens offset allowing me to pin to the ceiling (with the 900 it will hang down to eye level when standing on the riser, albeit behind the seats, so anyone who stands up and turns around will see a supernova). Ultimately my question is without the benefit of direct comparison would I even notice any of the Z4's performance trade-offs as noted above (although it did fare better in the Projector Central review)?


I would have to agree with CKL's assessment. I was in HK a few weeks ago and I wanted to buy either one of these machines. I demo'ed these 2 machines in multiple stores and the results were different due to the settings in each store. In one store, the AE900 won and in another the Z4 won. However, there was a store where both PJ were calibrated and the differences were marginal. I watched both machines on grey matte and white matte screens. It ssemed that both machines looked a bit better on white matte screens in a light controlled room. I was able to A/B machines as well as screens. HK is just a shopper's paradise when it comes to A/B'ing equipment.

However, I must agree that the AE900 wins out in color while the Z4 is much more sharp.

Really, both machines are great and I believe the VB was non-existnat or minimal at best. The viewing distance varied from 10-18 ft or so and picture quality from both were outstading. I think some people are complaining about VB and pixelation abit too much. Sure I am a perfectionist and I want to get the most for my money. However, these PJ are at an entry level price point and they offer amazing value for what you would get. The are cheaper than 50+" LCD rear projection units and with a quality screen you it would be hard to tell the difference. If you want perfect picture quality, I hope you can afford the Sim2, Infocus 777, Marantz or Qualia's, etc... as they are amazingly stunning.

Like they say, different strokes for different folks. Some may prefer the smaller AE900 or the automatic closing lens door on the Z4.

If this were to be your first PJ or an upgrade from a AE500/Z2, then either choice would be sufficient. However, if I owned a AE700/Z3, I probably wouldnt upgrade as of yet. Better to save your money for the next generation PJ after the AE900/Z4 and get a better screen if you curently have a cheap one.

Gadget_girl-

How do you know about the free bulb with Panasonic Canada? I can't find anything on there website and I just ordered one from my local dealer but haven't heard anything from them either. Is it in print somewhere that I can take to them to get the bulb?

I thought there was a menu setting to remove the cropping, even with HDMI?

NilsP
Not on the 700.
There is an OVERSCAN function for HDMI - the cropping disappears but the image is now overscanned - no longer 1:1 mapped.

ted

excellent post Fife, very nicely said :)

Fife, people complain about having VB while others don't. It's not about VB in general, It's buying a unit with problems. The ae900s don't have VB, but there are units with it.
Why do I have to buy a projector with VB if I know that the unit next to mine is perfect?

Sorry for my English, I hope you get the general meaning.

Alan2005: Wasn't it a Maxell ad? Doh! Many moons ago (um, the undergrad days of my life are fading into sepia tones!), I owned that poster! And, I can't even remember! Doncha hate that? :eek:

Sorry off topic...

http://www.audioheritage.org/images/jbl/extracts/maxell.jpg

the actual commercial is better but i cant find a link for that..

Fife, people complain about having VB while others don't. It's not about VB in general, It's buying a unit with problems. The ae900s don't have VB, but there are units with it.
Why do I have to buy a projector with VB if I know that the unit next to mine is perfect?

Sorry for my English, I hope you get the general meaning.

That's why I wait for the Sony HS60 which cost a bit more. The last few HS50s that I checked on almost 99.99% VB free.

I can still see the VB, but I don't think it would bother most people. The first one had one dead pixel and I believe it had a little more VB. I didn't really calibrate the first one since I wanted to send it back during the grace period. While there are probably AE900s with less VB than mine (and people who see it less obviously than I do on the same LCDs), I'm still very happy with it for what I paid. I'm more forgiving of things with lower prices in general.
--Darin

Darin (or anybody else):
Quick question-
Do you notice, while watching B&W films on your 900, that the left side of the screen has a very faint blue tint to it - and the right side of the screen has a very faint red tint to it? This effect would be reversed if the projector were ceiling mounted. The effect also reverses when you zoom in and out. The 700 has this defect (as had been reported early on in the 700 tweak thread) and can't be calibrated out. It is very subtle, and the 500 didn't have this defect. Any thoughts? (I forgot to check this out when I previewed the 900 at Daniel's house.)

Not on the 700.
There is an OVERSCAN function for HDMI - the cropping disappears but the image is now overscanned - no longer 1:1 mapped.

ted

Ted,
Quick question. I've read a lot of posts about this - but am still confused.
When I switch sources (while watching 1:78) on my 700 from component to HDMI - I get tiny black bars top and bottom. I either have to live with this - or zoom out the image to fill the screen - which means I then have to un-zoom the image when I change source back to component. Pain in the neck. Of course you don't notice this with 2:35 films. My 500 was this way also. Has this been corrected on the new 900?

I can still see the VB, but I don't think it would bother most people. The first one had one dead pixel and I believe it had a little more VB. I didn't really calibrate the first one since I wanted to send it back during the grace period. While there are probably AE900s with less VB than mine (and people who see it less obviously than I do on the same LCDs), I'm still very happy with it for what I paid. I'm more forgiving of things with lower prices in general.
--Darin

Darin/Panny 900 users:
RE: VB - Are you finding there is a need to "hard power" off your units daily to keep VB under control (like many of us 700 users still have to do) ???

Darin/Panny 900 users:
RE: VB - Are you finding there is a need to "hard power" off your units daily to keep VB under control (like many of us 700 users still have to do) ???

I agree with Fife's excellent post.

My guess on the VB issue is that most D5 projectors have very little of it because all the reviews thus far where equipment, cables, calibration are far more controlled.

The reports here of VB are hard to confirm as to exactly what they are seeing and only a couple of them appear to correctly identifying the issue and eliminating source or other issue as creating or amplifying the artifact.

I would not pass on the AE900 because of VB.

My AE unit has no VB that I can see and I've looked for it. The only PQ issue that is consistent from source to source and surface to surface is slightly muddied contrast in low-light, low contrast scene (i.e dark scenes without any bright points or spots).

The other issue is how much the PQ varies because of the source. Source material is definetly an issue and the AE900 reveals issues and problems with sources.

My two cents again are if you watch mostly live high-def sources, i suspect the extra sharpness of the Z4 will be appealing. If you watch mostly film bases sources (DVD or HD), the Panny seems superior.

Films on DVD are absolutely stunning. Computer desktop is uninspiring, plenty of data PJ do a much better job, though you could tweak to improve.

Bottom line, the Panny is designed to watch movies and does a fabulous job at it. I'm unaware of any other solution that gives you a better movie watching experience for $2k.

Thanks, Dennis. That's the one. Maxell!

Here is a discussion on the early rebate that some may find interesting:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=597423

I for one will push my retailer to push panny to include the early adopters of this projector for the rebate. If there are enough of us, we may have strength in numbers on this issue.

Ron

RCN_Moose

I haven't seen anything about the free bulb promo on paper either, I found about it from my dealer when I bought 2 weeks ago and I told Gadget_Girl in a post on another board, and I assume she asked her dealer about it. When I sent out my requests for quoes 2 weeks ago when I bought me Ae900 two of the dealers I got quotes from mentioned it. The bulb does not come in the ox with the projector, but comes on its own. I got my projector on Monday the 24th, but the extra bulb was backordered and shoudl have come in Friday (I haven't gone back to my dealer to pick it up yet). I got my dealer to call his panasonic rep to confrim the free bulb, you might wish to do the same.

So far I am enjoying my ae900 immensly.

Ted,
My 500 was this way also. Has this been corrected on the new 900?

John,
I've not seen the 900 but have seen it mentioned that the 900 is no longer cropped on HDMI.

I just pretend its a 1.85 flick and I'm too lazy to change my masking. ;)

ted

About the sharpness, it'd be nice to get some clarity.
My understanding is that the Z4 uses digital processing to artificially enhance sharpness, which introduces other artifacts. It seems like it can't be totally disabled either. And as we know the Z4 doesn't have any 'smoothscreen' lens.
On the AE900, it's been reported that 1080i sources look a bit soft, softness which could come from the internal scaler. But 720p sources should look sharp, even with smoothscreen. Right ?
If that's the case, the AE900 could still be very good for HD if the source does the scaling and is set to output 720p. If you use an HTPC you could even possibly artificially increase the source sharpness like the Z4.
Could anyone with a AE900 take some close up shots of a PC desktop or patterns to see what the new smoothscreen looks like (with 1:1 mapping at 720p)? Maybe one could also take such shots at 1080i to see the effects of the scaler (maybe a PC couldn't be used for that resolution, but maybe with some upscaling dvd player, with the setup menu for example).

Darin/Panny 900 users:
RE: VB - Are you finding there is a need to "hard power" off your units daily to keep VB under control (like many of us 700 users still have to do) ???

John,
I've stopped hard power- down. At first nothing seemed to change, but over time its no longer an issue. Perhaps its my sunglasses. :)

ted

Fife, people complain about having VB while others don't. It's not about VB in general, It's buying a unit with problems. The ae900s don't have VB, but there are units with it.
Why do I have to buy a projector with VB if I know that the unit next to mine is perfect?

Sorry for my English, I hope you get the general meaning.

AlexPN, It is true that your AE900/700 or Z4/Z3 unit would have some noticeable VB and small inperfections compared to your neighbor with the same machine. I think this may have to be some kind of quality control issue but there probability that there are differences between the same model # machines.

Like ac888, I have not found this to be a problem on the Sony HS-51. It is "in a different class" compared to Panny/Sanyo at a higher price tag.

I cant stress enough how these Panny's and Sanyo's do offer EXCELLENT value. It just depends on your luck of the draw. If you get a machine that has some noticeable problems, I would hope you purchased from a reputable dealer who would offer you an exchange.

If you dont like taking chances and dont mind paying a bit more, you could wait for the newer Sony HS-60 or get an older Sony HS-51.

Like I said earlier, I was in the processing of picking up a Z4/AE900 but the price on Sony HS-51 became really attractive for me as compared to either of these machines. It was really a no brainer for me.

However, I would NOT hesitate to pick either one of these machines for backup duty! Both of these machines are much more vibrant then the Sony.

Much later as promised, but here are my short impressions of the AE900. Got he pj for a week now and I think the PQ is stunning! :eek:

My unit does have some minor VB which cannot be completely removed by the "panel adjust" (but it sure does help). I contacted Panasonic (through my dealer) and I am waiting for their official policy regarding VB. It is however no dealbreaker for me. I think the fact that I can notice the VB is more or less a compliment for the overall quality of the pj. Let me explain this by using a (stupid) comparison: If you throw a pebble in a quit pond the effect is much more noticable than if you would throw it in the ocean.

I can´t find any other fault with my unit. Plenty sharpness (indeed also source dependant) an no whining sound from the fan. About the Dynamic Iris; sometimes I can see the picture getting dimmer or lighter in an instant, but it is in no means distracting and the benefits are substantial.

From the projectors that I´ve owned (ae100, z1, z3 and the ae700)this pj is without a doubt the best. Maybe the improvements are more evolutionary than revolutionary, but in the meantime LCD has become much more than the second best alternative for DLP (as the comparison on projectorcentral between the 900 and the 7700 confirms).

Much later as promised, but here are my short impressions of the AE900. Got he pj for a week now and I think the PQ is stunning! :eek:

My unit does have some minor VB which cannot be completely removed by the "panel adjust" (but it sure does help). I contacted Panasonic (through my dealer) and I am waiting for their official policy regarding VB. It is however no dealbreaker for me. I think the fact that I can notice the VB is more or less a compliment for the overall quality of the pj. Let me explain this by using a (stupid) comparison: If you throw a pebble in a quit pond the effect is much more noticable than if you would throw it in the ocean.

I can´t find any other fault with my unit. Plenty sharpness (indeed also source dependant) an no whining sound from the fan. About the Dynamic Iris; sometimes I can see the picture getting dimmer or lighter in an instant, but it is in no means distracting and the benefits are substantial.

From the projectors that I´ve owned (ae100, z1, z3 and the ae700)this pj is without a doubt the best. Maybe the improvements are more evolutionary than revolutionary, but in the meantime LCD has become much more than the second best alternative for DLP (as the comparison on projectorcentral between the 900 and the 7700 confirms).


is it better than the infocus 7210?

New review posted on Audioholics for the AE900
Cheers

How bout a link?

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/PanasonicPTAE900UProjectorReview1.php

One of the listed cons: "Friends may show up unexpectedly to watch movies" :)

NilsP

I was reading some where that the way the AE900 produces it's high contrast and deep blacks is by the iris cutting out lumens during dark scenes. It said that when this happens you can tell a big difference in the over all experience because the scenes drastically change from light to dark and dark to light. I was thinking of getting one of these pj's, but not if it was that big of a deal. Anyone experiencing this?/ comments?

if its your first pj, it will just simply blow you away.

dont worry about the contrast changes. i can notice it sometimes but it doesnt bother me. you can alswo turn off this function and the contrast changes would not then be visible and you would still have a great image.

Hey everyone, first time poster here and about to be first time projector owner. Like many others, I think I've narrowed it down to the AE900 or the Z4. (I've looked at DLPs and I see rainbows, so no DLP for me...)

One thing that hasn't been talked about much is the fact that the Z4 has a 12 bit IC, where the AE900 only has a 10 bit IC. Is this a minor difference? On another thread someone mentioned that it only gives "additional headroom to make a more accurate conversion". Yet, I found this on a website about the Z4:

"TopazReal technology ensures higher-definition projection of all video formats.
Improved video signal processing 12bit digital imaging gives 4096 gradations for each of the RGB channels delivering over 60 times more colour shades than it's predecessor the Z3. (Which was already 60 x more than most 8 Bit DLP models... --- AIM)

Regardless of the source, the Z4 achieves beautiful projection and impressive colour precision with over 68 billion graduations of colour.
.
.
.
Interestingly, all of these units have now moved to 10bit image processing, with the benefits of over a billion colours against 17.7 million found in the DLP competitors. However, a significant advance in the Z4 has been the move to 12 bit image processing circuits for the decoder, scaler and gamma correction - the best ever. To put this simply, more processing power means more capacity to deliver outstanding and faithful image reproduction."


So, if I'm reading that right, the AE900 (having a 10 bit IC) can only reproduced somewhere over 1 billion colors. However, the Z4 (having the 12 bit IC) can product over 68 billion colors! If this is correct, that seems to be a HUGE difference that shouldn't be overlooked, especially with hi-def DVDs on the horizon. Or is this one of the "paper" differences that really don't pan out in the real world?

Thanks for any insight you can offer...

Alan

once again, if its your first pj, it will blow you away. lots of very technical folks here. you dont need to concern yourself with 10 bit this versus 12 bit that. i would say all but the most demanding of first time projector owners should only worry about placing a cushion on the floor beneath them, so that when their jaw hits the floor on first viewing, they wont sustain a permanent injury.... :)

just to let any interested readers know,

i managed with much hardship to get my pj replaced due to the whining noise on top of the normal fan noise that i was experiencing. over here in switzerland, thats not so easy to do.... consumer protection doesnt seem to be high on the list of most peoples priorities.

anyhow, my new pj does not have this whining sound so im very happy about that. im still quite surprised that the pj does seem more audible to me than my old ae300, perhaps this is because the ae300 vents out of the back and the ae900 vents out of the front into my sitting position.

apart from that, everything seems to be more or less fine. i had a scare that there were dead pixels, which i saw during the Godfather part II, but as i then didnt see them after swapping to another movie, im hoping its down to that old films dodgy source material.

now just looking forward to see what this baby can do with the xbox 360.

krlock2.

I was just reading the review on projectorcental comparing the Benq PE7700 and the ae900, and noticed the comments about solarization on low light level scenes on the DLP.

How many bits of color accuracy do modern DLP systems have?

They used to be accurate to 8bit, but the constant increases in color wheel speed will means that any improvements in DMD switching time will probably have been eaten up in the higher wheel speed rather than in improving color accuracy.

The solarization mentioned above might even suggest that they have given up some color accuracy to help with the rainbow issue.

Anybody here know anything about this?

Liam

John,
I've stopped hard power- down. At first nothing seemed to change, but over time its no longer an issue. Perhaps its my sunglasses. :)

ted

Thanks Ted! Now there's an easy fix for all my 700 quirks (sunglasses)
Was hoping Darin would comment on this as he has a new 900 - but what is your take on:
Do you notice, while watching B&W films on your 900, that the entire left side of the screen has a very faint blue tint to it - and the entire right side of the screen has a very faint red tint to it? This effect would be reversed if the projector were ceiling mounted. The 700 has this defect (as had been reported early on in the 700 tweak thread) and can't be calibrated out. It is very subtle, and the 500 didn't have this defect.

krlock, glad you got a replacement!

thanks tony, i was pulling my hair out for awhile there. its better now.

Am I missing something? How is the lose of the 12V trigger and replacement with a serial port a good thing? Considering the trigger is standard on all mid to high end projectors, why would Panasonic remove it?

I also understand that the remote is much improved and is learning, but not all of us have remove control operated electric screens.

Anyone know how I can get a similar function that the 12V trigger provided out of a serial port?

Thanks,
Wakefield

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I suppose the serial port could be used to connect to a wall control system or an AMX or Crestron control screen. However for the market this projector is targeting, I question whether many people are really using those.

Specifically, what I am interested in is coming up with a way to automate the lowering and raising of the electric screen I plan to get and using this projector. The screen has a 12V trigger - no remote control. Any ideas?

Is anyone using this projector with a Dalite HiPower?

Please excuse my ignorance, but on this site: http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=94768&catGroupId=21360&surfModel=PT-AE900U&displayTab=R

I selected the "Specification Sheet" and in the pdf file, under 'Resolution', it states RGB: 1280 x 720 pixels (1920 x 1080 pixels with compression)

Could someone clarify what this means? Is it possible to view 1920 x 1080? Sorry but this is confusing for someone new to fp as I am.

Basically it means that the Panny will accept 1080i but it will be scaled (compressed) to its native resolution of 1280x720 for display.

Jbichsel click here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6432295&&#post6432295

Does the AE900 have any adjustments for colour uniformity like the C.UNIF adjustments of the Hitachi TX100?

Can one of you AE900 owners recommend a good 100' Da-Lite screen surface type for me? I'll be using the projector in a 100% light controlled room.

Hi all: New member here. I've had my ae900 for about a month now and I'm projecting it from a bookshelf about 17 feet onto a DA-LITE Cinema Contour Hi Contrast screen. I really love watching DVD's and my 5 HDTV channels from dishnetwork, but I'm pretty disappointed with the visible pixels when watching non HDTV feeds. Any ideas as to how to fix this problem. I know there's got to be a way.

Thanks alot! Mac

Jbichsel click here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6432295&&#post6432295

Been there, done that, t-shirt doesn't fit.

Arrgghh! Clear as mud.

If a projector can only display 1280 x 720, then why list 'Maximum Resolution' as 1920 x 1080 or '1920 x 1280 with compression'?

A much clearer way to my thinking would be:

Maximum Resolution: 1280 x 720

Signals accepted: Up to 1920 x 1080, however, anything over 1280 x 720 will be downscaled to 1280 x 720.

To me it sounds as if the marketing yahoos are trying to make it sound like it will do more than it does.

Mac, the 900 is as good as it gets in regards to pixal visability. In a reasonable setup, you shouldn't be having an issue. Assuming your unit is not faulty, you can try defocusing just a hair. This is a common practice, that I don't care for.

I'm sure most here will be surprised at your comment.

Well I just came back from a dealer here in Edmonton where I viewed a brand new(watched them open the new box) and uncalibrated AE900. The screen was a matte 106" diag with what I would say a fair bit of ambient light in the room.

First off there was absolutely no VB and I have seen it before on the AE700. Of course the colors were outstanding, clear picture and all the other good stuff already reported from this machine. It will need an Avia calibration but out of the box in Cinema 1 mode it looked very appealing.

However I am very happy to report to brightness will be more than adequate for my screen size(126" diag) in Cinema 1 mode and lamp on low. We blew the picture up (heavy overscan on the 106" screen) to simulate a 120" wide screen and the picture was still awesome. Switching to high lamp was a little brighter but not much, would probably compensate as the bulb dims in the future however. Switching to Normal mode increased the brightness substantially to almost too bright for my taste, plus the colors were off as well, but after calibration I am sure would look very good. As I mentioned this was not a light controlled room.

I will be purchasing this projector next week as I cant wait for the Epson 550 to compare, not that it would be better anyway by the sounds of it.

Paul

I just picked one up here in Edmonton on Saturday. Have only done some minor adjusments, but have been very impressed so far. I was thinking of waiting for the Epson too, but from the preliminary reports didn't sound like there'd be much difference (fingers crossed). I sold my old projector and have been without one for a couple weeks so being projectorless was also a factor.

Will let you know more when I have time to fully calibrate it, but like I said out of the box (in Cinema 1) with some minor adjustments looks great.

Are most people using High or Low lamp mode on the 900?

My basement room is fully light controlled, and I'm projecting onto an HCCV (gray) screen.

Thx,

DE

I'm projecting onto an HCCV (gray) screen
That's what I have on order (100" diag). How do you like the combination?

Well I just came back from a dealer here in Edmonton where I viewed a brand new(watched them open the new box) and uncalibrated AE900. The screen was a matte 106" diag with what I would say a fair bit of ambient light in the room.

First off there was absolutely no VB and I have seen it before on the AE700. Of course the colors were outstanding, clear picture and all the other good stuff already reported from this machine. It will need an Avia calibration but out of the box in Cinema 1 mode it looked very appealing.

However I am very happy to report to brightness will be more than adequate for my screen size(126" diag) in Cinema 1 mode and lamp on low. We blew the picture up (heavy overscan on the 106" screen) to simulate a 120" wide screen and the picture was still awesome. Switching to high lamp was a little brighter but not much, would probably compensate as the bulb dims in the future however. Switching to Normal mode increased the brightness substantially to almost too bright for my taste, plus the colors were off as well, but after calibration I am sure would look very good. As I mentioned this was not a light controlled room.

I will be purchasing this projector next week as I cant wait for the Epson 550 to compare, not that it would be better anyway by the sounds of it.

Paul


Best comments I have heard so far - being one of the many plebes who doesn't and won't have a light controlled room. And this was on a white screen you say?! I think it's between this and a japanese sourced hitachi 200 - decisions, decisions

krlock2: Congrat's on getting your 900 replaced; I think we've all been feeling for you! What would have been such a simple process in much of the rest of the world looks like it was a real PITA for you...

The best way to check you PJ's sharpness is to just view the menu. (takes away the possibility of your source being the problem) The menu should be crystal clear.

Exactly.....I check the menu often and manually focus the picture to the menu letters. I am guessing the 2 huge subs I have vibrate the ceiling causing the rojector to lose focus slightly after time.

I've had the AE900 for almost a month and the picture quality is great. I have the projector mounted on the ceiling at 15' casting to a a 120" Dalite HCCV screen. I am extremely satisfied with this projector in the short time I have owned it.

:) Thanks for the info. I bought my 900 9 days ago, and inquired at my dealer, who didn't know about it. He checked with Panasonic Canada and they said yup a spare bulb is coming. My dealer is going to take care of me. Thanks for the info. A great projector and a spare bulb to boot ! Awesome.... Thanks again.
RCN_Moose

I haven't seen anything about the free bulb promo on paper either, I found about it from my dealer when I bought 2 weeks ago and I told Gadget_Girl in a post on another board, and I assume she asked her dealer about it. When I sent out my requests for quoes 2 weeks ago when I bought me Ae900 two of the dealers I got quotes from mentioned it. The bulb does not come in the ox with the projector, but comes on its own. I got my projector on Monday the 24th, but the extra bulb was backordered and shoudl have come in Friday (I haven't gone back to my dealer to pick it up yet). I got my dealer to call his panasonic rep to confrim the free bulb, you might wish to do the same.

So far I am enjoying my ae900 immensly.

Just pulled the trigger and got a 900! I had to put all this 'research' to rest... this is the only way. Got a free bulb too (Panasonic Canada said it goes to the dealer, its up to them what to do with it).

I won't open it til the weekend (I just want to see whats said about the Mits 3000). I can't see it being significantly better than the 900.

My dad isn't a believer in projectors --> 'get a plasma and btw plasma, plasma plasma!' He's never seen a projector b4, we'll see what he says this weekend cuz he's coming down...

Btw willdao, your sig is HILARIOUS!

That's what I have on order (100" diag). How do you like the combination?

The blacks seem excellent to me. My previous projector was a Z-1.

DE

Mac, the 900 is as good as it gets in regards to pixal visability. In a reasonable setup, you shouldn't be having an issue. Assuming your unit is not faulty, you can try defocusing just a hair. This is a common practice, that I don't care for.

I'm sure most here will be surprised at your comment.
Tony I don't think mac was talking about screendoor, right mac ?
Are you talking about poor quality of your SD sources (blockiness, compression artifacts, ...) and wondering how to improve that ?

Exactly.....I check the menu often and manually focus the picture to the menu letters. I am guessing the 2 huge subs I have vibrate the ceiling causing the rojector to lose focus slightly after time.

I got 4 JL 13.5 inch subs going :D ...soft rubber washers on the pj mount does a world of difference.

Steve.

Tony I don't think mac was talking about screendoor, right mac ?
Are you talking about poor quality of your SD sources (blockiness, compression artifacts, ...) and wondering how to improve that ?


yes, I'm talking about the poor quality of my SD sources...How do I improve that? Thanks for helping to clarify my question.

krlock2,
Thanks for your response to my iris question. Here's another question if you don't mind. What do you think about the sharpness of the image? I've discussed this with others before, but would like to hear new opinions as well about smooth-screen, and anyone else viewing thier new units. I am thinking about getting a sony hs51 and a imx filter for it to take care of the sde, but I like the idea of the 900 having smooth-screen, it's almost like it already has it's own imx filter. (plus saving alot of $$$) I just want to make sure it's not too soft, I want a very sharp, crisp image for hd without any sde. I know it's difficult to have both, but i'm thinking about a 120"-130" diag. screen in a light controlled room.

I'm thinking about going to the colorado springs event this weekend to just see it for myself. If I don't see one I may have to buy sight unseen, oh and by the way, this will be my first pj.

Thanks guys, Chris

krlock2: Congrat's on getting your 900 replaced; I think we've all been feeling for you! What would have been such a simple process in much of the rest of the world looks like it was a real PITA for you...



thanks wildao!

worse things happen at sea, i suppose. got to keep these things in perspective. i think its more of a problem for the retailer .... i dont like to take no for an answer when its clear there is something wrong with the machine.

i was already imagining staging a sit in protest in their store and telling other customers about my experience. i have been denied that now!!!

anyhow, im very happy with the ae900. great machine. cant wait to hook up an xbox360 to it, as that will be the first chance proper chance to get hdtv here in switzerland.

krlock2

krlock2,
Thanks for your response to my iris question. Here's another question if you don't mind. What do you think about the sharpness of the image? I've discussed this with others before, but would like to hear new opinions as well about smooth-screen, and anyone else viewing thier new units. I am thinking about getting a sony hs51 and a imx filter for it to take care of the sde, but I like the idea of the 900 having smooth-screen, it's almost like it already has it's own imx filter. (plus saving alot of $$$) I just want to make sure it's not too soft, I want a very sharp, crisp image for hd without any sde. I know it's difficult to have both, but i'm thinking about a 120"-130" diag. screen in a light controlled room.

I'm thinking about going to the colorado springs event this weekend to just see it for myself. If I don't see one I may have to buy sight unseen, oh and by the way, this will be my first pj.

Thanks guys, Chris

well chris, my laymans opinion would say this.

1) the ae900 seems sharper than my ae300, all other things being equal.

2) it just isnt that simple though. the dvd player that you use, the cables quality and length. watching scenes through my upconverting player through component and hdmi are way better than with my previous old dvd player.

3) ae900 has a sharpness control to help you out. havent used it yet, it looks plenty sharp to me.

4) some people will confuse the focus used by a film maker as a sharpness issue. for example, i used to complain with my ae300 that figures in the middle distance dont look that sharp while a character in the foreground looked pin sharp. after much worrying about my projector, i simply re watched the scene on my crt and it was exactly the same.

much of the time the source material is to blame rather than the pj, thats the point im making. use a good player and cables with this projector, and you cant lose.

and like i keep banging on about, if this is your first pj, and you can afford it, and you have a suitable room for it, then it will knock your socks off, its really that good.

krlock2.

Can someone tell me what options do I have to hook up the computer to the pj? I still want to use the computer screen when the pj is not in use. Would a a/v switcher vga (db-15) to the pj? or s-video out on the video card? or some other way that I don't know about?

Thanks,

Steve.

yes, I'm talking about the poor quality of my SD sources...How do I improve that? Thanks for helping to clarify my question.

Im far from an expert on this topic, but to improve a SD signal, I think the only way to do that is to run the source through an external scaler before you send it to the projector. Something like the iSCAN HD or an AV receiver that does up-scaling of the analog inputs.

Wakefield

Can someone tell me what options do I have to hook up the computer to the pj? I still want to use the computer screen when the pj is not in use. Would a a/v switcher vga (db-15) to the pj? or s-video out on the video card? or some other way that I don't know about?

Thanks,

Steve.

If you have a video card with two dvi/vga outputs, you can use one for the monitor and one for the pj. Otherwise you can manually switch from one cable to the other ....

Ofcourse you can use a vga switcher too (will probably have some degradation).

I'm relatively new to all this so please excuse me if this post is misplaced. I'm in the process of finishing my basement and I'm thinking of going with the AE900 and a DNP Supernova 100" (if I can find one).

I'm living in West Michigan and I can't seem to find any dealers anywhere near me that don't want to charge you a rediculous premium. Can anyone recommend a dealer in the area? I've read that every once in a while one may get a "bum" projector and it's important to go with a place that will help you out. Can anyone recomend a place to buy the AE900 that will accept exchanges without complaining too much? If I'm forced to buy online what are some good places to go through?

I'm thinking I can figure out how to install this all on my own (I'm a computer engineer and I've even worked on video processors so I understand a fair amount, but when it comes to placements and such I'm clueless).

Thanks,
Brian

yes, I'm talking about the poor quality of my SD sources...How do I improve that? Thanks for helping to clarify my question.


If you plays with HTPC then it is a good option for you. I have a DTV card with S-Vid input that works with Dscaler. There are so many tweaking for you to make your picture look good. World better PQ than connect direct to your pj through S-Video.


For connecting more than one display, I use a powered VGA splitter for my LCD monitor and old LCD pj. Unlike a switcher it feed signal to both display simultaneously with no visible degradation. Also DVI/hdmi to my DLP pj.

Darin,

I know that you have had problems with both of your units in regard to VB. How is the FPN? I've got a 4805 and a 700 w/ filter and although i prefer the 700 for higher rez, smoother picture, and lack of pixel structure, the 4805 throws a "cleaner" image because of the 700's FPN. the contrast of these two is vey similar after adding the filter to the 700, but the 700 loses it's 3-D/ realism because of the FPN.
So can you comment about how "dirty" the 900 is compared to maybe your H79 or 11K?
thanks

4) some people will confuse the focus used by a film maker as a sharpness issue. for example, i used to complain with my ae300 that figures in the middle distance dont look that sharp while a character in the foreground looked pin sharp. after much worrying about my projector, i simply re watched the scene on my crt and it was exactly the same.

Depth of Field / Depth of Focus - See this link (http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/fototech/htmls/depth.html) if interested. It is the nature of lenses, dependent on lens quality, F-Stop (aperture) setting and Lighting. It has become part of film language allowing the filmaker to selectively direct your attention - think focus pulls. Many do not notice these effects until the image is truly large - or overlook it altogether which is the filmaker's wish of course.

much of the time the source material is to blame rather than the pj, thats the point im making. use a good player and cables with this projector, and you cant lose.

krlock2.

If people wish to compare what is possible I suggest accessing .WMV files or WMVDVDs. (demos are online if you've a PC capable of playing the files hooked to your PJ See here (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/hdvideo.aspx) ) These are representative of the VC-1 codec which will be used on the next generation of DVD. The difference is considerable.

Many forget that as good as DVD can be it is a best SD - good old TV. If you've access to a Hi Def source, be aware that next gen DVD will be better than anything you are seeing right now.

A good source is the only true means of determining the "sharpness" of your display. For DVD sources may I suggest you take a look at The Fifth Element (an old chestnut) I Robot or The Incredibles . These are exceptional transfers at a 2.35 ratio so beware the dreaded black bars. :eek:

With an anamorphic lens and a good scaler (HTPC) in my case, they are a sight to ponder 10 ft wide from my inky dinky 700. ;)

ted

<<Btw willdao, your sig is HILARIOUS! >>

[ Off topic: Thanks, madcutter...the first comment on AVS! (And especially funny if you're, say, a free-wheelin', try-anything, international-foods gourmet flavor-explosion junkie and chef, and a vocal and decidedly unrepentant omni-vore...and you've ever known or dated an anal-retentive, obessively picky, eat-for-mere-fuel but bitch-about-it rabid vegetarian...I smile just to myself every time I see my own posts! Vengeance is mine!) ]

Your Dad is just going to be blown away by the 900 on a huge screen! I've had a front PJ going on six years, now, and the sheer size has a shock or "WOW!" value that a flatscreen with only 15-25% of the surface area cannot begin to challenge...new initiates to my HT are simply blown away. Utter and immediate paradigm shift, in terms of "the possible," as their horizons are broadened almost beyond belief. The nice thing is that you, too--no matter how much the "tweak and upgrade bug" bites, as you hang around this forum (be forewarned!)--will still get a big grin every time you fire that puppy up. Even by yourself! I do, and my tech is decidedly passe, these days (hence my hanging out on this thread...an upgrade is in my future!).

Enjoy, and welcome to the forums! (There's no way out; you can never go back again!)

Will

Can someone tell me what options do I have to hook up the computer to the pj? I still want to use the computer screen when the pj is not in use. Would a a/v switcher vga (db-15) to the pj? or s-video out on the video card? or some other way that I don't know about?

Thanks,

Steve.
Steve, there are a number of ways you can connect a computer to a AE900 : HDMI (with a $5 DVI/HDMI adapter), VGA, component, s-video. I am not sure how component would look with a PC since component is YUV. And s-video would be really bad.
I would definitely recommend that you use the HDMI port. With VGA, if your computer is far away from the PJ, you will need a very good and expensive VGA cable to avoid degradation and ghosting at that resolution. If the distance is short, may not be a concern. Plus with VGA, you may need to do quite some tweaking to adjust the timings to reach a perfect 1:1 mapping and do all the adjustments on the PJ side as well (not sure how automated it is).
With HDMI, the signal stays digital all the way to the PJ so noise is less an issue, and there are no adjustments to make.
If you are already using the HDMI input, you could use a DVI or HDMI switcher, I think some electronic ones can be had now starting at around $150, there are some cheaper mechanical switches too.

And especially funny if you're, say, a free-wheelin', try-anything, international-foods gourmet flavor-explosion junkie and chef, and a vocal and decidedly unrepentant omni-vore...and you've ever known or dated an anal-retentive, obessively picky, eat-for-mere-fuel but bitch-about-it rabid vegetarian...

ROFLMAO

Now that's even funnier. :D

Do you notice, while watching B&W films on your 900, that the entire left side of the screen has a very faint blue tint to it - and the entire right side of the screen has a very faint red tint to it? This effect would be reversed if the projector were ceiling mounted. The 700 has this defect (as had been reported early on in the 700 tweak thread) and can't be calibrated out. It is very subtle, and the 500 didn't have this defect.

Its been a while since I've looked at those service menu screens.
Hey!! I don't remember the convergence being *that* off.

Mine has a similar shading, and if I remember correctly it changes with duration which implies a thermal component.

It seems less than I remember - but I *might* have induced some synapse loss over the years.

I always thought it was either a shading issue (don't know if this applies to LCDs the way it does to CRTs) or the polarizers not being parallel to the panel - I would imagine this would cause slight differences in the transmission for that primary. It would make sense that there would be a thermal impact on this as the polarizers are plastic.

I remember asking if there was a way to turn off the colour decoder as a means of alleviating this.

Have you considered a setting that sets the primaries at minimum or a setting that has a colour balance for 5500K (what B&W is mean to be viewed at. These might help a little.

Sorry I've no real insight to offer.
ted

well chris, my laymans opinion would say this.

1) the ae900 seems sharper than my ae300, all other things being equal.

2) it just isnt that simple though. the dvd player that you use, the cables quality and length. watching scenes through my upconverting player through component and hdmi are way better than with my previous old dvd player.

3) ae900 has a sharpness control to help you out. havent used it yet, it looks plenty sharp to me.

4) some people will confuse the focus used by a film maker as a sharpness issue. for example, i used to complain with my ae300 that figures in the middle distance dont look that sharp while a character in the foreground looked pin sharp. after much worrying about my projector, i simply re watched the scene on my crt and it was exactly the same.

much of the time the source material is to blame rather than the pj, thats the point im making. use a good player and cables with this projector, and you cant lose.

and like i keep banging on about, if this is your first pj, and you can afford it, and you have a suitable room for it, then it will knock your socks off, its really that good.

krlock2.
If people wish to compare what is possible I suggest accessing .WMV files or WMVDVDs. (demos are online if you've a PC capable of playing the files hooked to your PJ See here ) These are representative of the VC-1 codec which will be used on the next generation of DVD. The difference is considerable.

Many forget that as good as DVD can be it is a best SD - good old TV. If you've access to a Hi Def source, be aware that next gen DVD will be better than anything you are seeing right now.

A good source is the only true means of determining the "sharpness" of your display. For DVD sources may I suggest you take a look at The Fifth Element (an old chestnut) I Robot or The Incredibles . These are exceptional transfers at a 2.35 ratio so beware the dreaded black bars.

With an anamorphic lens and a good scaler (HTPC) in my case, they are a sight to ponder 10 ft wide from my inky dinky 700.

ted
Report Post

Thanks guys, I will be using a 720p signal with good cables. Also Xbox360 which is 720 or 1080. I would like to check out some wmv. material, unfortunately I have tried in the past and my pc can't hang.

Detailed complete test of the final model! Part 3 of 3
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/PTAE900/PT900Test.htm

babelfish for translation cut and paste link
http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Re: The broad warm-to-cool, across-the-screen color shift noticed on 700 & 900:

This effect was also immediately apparent on my 700, and, as noted by others, only visible in B&W images. Rankling, as I have many B&W favorites. It occurs to me that the reversal of the color shift upon broad changes in zoom setting, as experienced by others as well as me, should preclude any possibility of the problem originating with the LCD panels, and that it's more likely linked to a relationship between the elements in the zoom lens. Perhaps there are other factors I'm not considering. This problem, for my part, has seemed like small potatoes, if visible at all, since my 700 entered the "Dim Times" back at 155 hours. Lucky me. It's been in the shop for about a week and a half, so I can't check my memory now, but I seem to recall the ability to increase and decrease the intensity of the effect with varying combinations of zoom and lens shift, further suggesting an optics origin for the problem. I mention it because, unlike, say, a convergence issue, there's simply no practical fix for an optics artifact, other than finding the closest thing to a "sweet spot" possible within one's throw/screen size/lens shift limitations.

I did have one nutty idea. I hesitate to mention it: A gel filter, if one subtle enough could be found (questionable), positioned to balance one of the areas of color shift extreme to within a tolerable range against the other. The color of the gel, I've reasoned, could even be off a bit and still be effective if it bridges the gap somewhat between the extremes. The problem of an abrupt, sharp edge of an off-centered filter appears completely negligible in tests I've done with gels on hand, which lay just too far beyond the plane of focus to be perceptible. Using two abutted opposite color filters seems even less feasible, as they would have to be extremely subtle, indeed, although such a balance might be needed for uniform brightness. Any possibility of such a tweak hinges, as I've said, on the existence of filters faint enough. There may be no such beast.

Told you it was nutty.

KongFan

Just wanted to add my views of the 900 to the overall discussion

I have had the unit for about 2 weeks now. I have been in the process of building a dedicated HT room for about a year now in my new TH. I agonized and researched to death , but in the end the 900 u was a better fit for me then then BenQ 7700 or Optoma H78dc3.

This is my 1st projector but in the last 3 years I have owned a Hitachi 51" RPTV, Hitachi 57" RPTV , and now have a Hitachi 60" LCD. The rest of my equipment was bought with the new projector also so I was very excited to step up to the dedicated room.

My equipment for the room:
Marantz AV 9300
Marantz DV8400
Rotel 1095
Monster Power AVS 2000
4 Swan 5.2's
Swan C3
HSU VTFMK2
Custom Adona Corp Audio rack.

I chose a 110" Carada High gain screen in 1:78:1, the Criterion series.

This was my first experience setting up a projector, and it could not have been any easier. I mounted the unit on a wall stand for a TV at the back of the room. It worked out really well and allowed me to tweak the unit very easy. I have the projector almost dead center to the center of the screen.

After all the setup, the real run began. I was worried about black levels not being as great as I liked, or FPN and distracting vertical banding. All I can say was how stunned I was and still am at the picture quality. Black levels are very impressive to my eye. Shadow detail is excellent. The colors right out of the box looked incredible to me. The level of detail on the screen was amazing and the image looked very smooth with no screen dooring or artifacting at normal viewing levels. Right now I am only using component, but I might test my DV 8400 DVI-HDMI (non-upconverting) against my denon 2910 on the middle level. I could not be happier with my purchase considering the image quality and the price point the unit came in at.


Rick

Re: The broad warm-to-cool, across-the-screen color shift noticed on 700 & 900:

This effect was also immediately apparent on my 700, and, as noted by others, only visible in B&W images. Rankling, as I have many B&W favorites. It occurs to me that the reversal of the color shift upon broad changes in zoom setting, as experienced by others as well as me, should preclude any possibility of the problem originating with the LCD panels, and that it's more likely linked to a relationship between the elements in the zoom lens. Perhaps there are other factors I'm not considering. This problem, for my part, has seemed like small potatoes, if visible at all, since my 700 entered the "Dim Times" back at 155 hours. Lucky me. It's been in the shop for about a week and a half, so I can't check my memory now, but I seem to recall the ability to increase and decrease the intensity of the effect with varying combinations of zoom and lens shift, further suggesting an optics origin for the problem. I mention it because, unlike, say, a convergence issue, there's simply no practical fix for an optics artifact, other than finding the closest thing to a "sweet spot" possible within one's throw/screen size/lens shift limitations.

I did have one nutty idea. I hesitate to mention it: A gel filter, if one subtle enough could be found (questionable), positioned to balance one of the areas of color shift extreme to within a tolerable range against the other. The color of the gel, I've reasoned, could even be off a bit and still be effective if it bridges the gap somewhat between the extremes. The problem of an abrupt, sharp edge of an off-centered filter appears completely negligible in tests I've done with gels on hand, which lay just too far beyond the plane of focus to be perceptible. Using two abutted opposite color filters seems even less feasible, as they would have to be extremely subtle, indeed, although such a balance might be needed for uniform brightness. Any possibility of such a tweak hinges, as I've said, on the existence of filters faint enough. There may be no such beast.

Told you it was nutty.

KongFan


Watch out for that projector heat.........you don't want a melted gel filter mess on hand! :D

thanks tvted for adding some flavour to my comments!

krlock2.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/PTAE900/PT900Test.htm

babelfish for translation cut and paste link
http://babelfish.altavista.com/

A quick summary of what Ekkehart found:

The Panasonic 900 is more an evolution of the 700 than a new design. Improvements are:
-Newest D5 panels
-Improved Lensshift mechanism (better to control)
-New universal remote
-Better looking menus
-Overscan can be switched off
-Higher contrast (50% improvement over old model)
-Improved deinterlacer (tested on PAL)
-nearly invisibly operating adaptive iris

Not improved are the lesser quality of the lens (increasing convergence errors with increased lensshift), the somewhat limited room of the lensshift, still the same problems with double contours, even when fed digital source, some picture parameters can't be user-set which makes the PJ not up to date compared to Hitachi, Sanyo, Epson models (especially gamma control).

Ekkehart did not see any fuzziness to the picture due to smooth screen - when fed with HD picture looked sharp.

He tested 3 900s, all production units. The first had terrible VB, the second somewhat less but still very visible, and the third was nearly (but not entirely) free of it. It seems there's a lot of difference in the production, poor quality control. Very disappointing since this was already the case with the 700. In general he says it is disappointing that some big flaws in the 700 were not addressed in the new 900. At the same time some things were improved.

As far as contrast is concerned he makes a similar remark to the PJcentral review comparison: blacks are deeper than old model, lots of brightness, but in scenes were both are mixed the Z4 is better.

In short - my opinion - Panasonic did a quick update on the 700. New panels, quicker iris, update on deinterlacer software. But major flaws such as signal quality (double contours), quality of the lens, quality control,... nothing's changed.

They're going to lose ground to the competition with this one. Which may be a good thing, the 1100 next year will need more than just an upgrade to keep up, so it will be interesting to see what Panasonic's going to come up with.

Neko

krlock2: Congrat's on getting your 900 replaced; I think we've all been feeling for you! What would have been such a simple process in much of the rest of the world looks like it was a real PITA for you...

i second this and join his congrat's :)

anyhow, im very happy with the ae900. great machine. cant wait to hook up an xbox360 to it, as that will be the first chance proper chance to get hdtv here in switzerland.

krlock2

what about that EU satelite - Euro1080 (http://www.euro1080.tv/) ?
can;t you receive it?

babelfish for translation cut and paste link
[url]http://babelfish.altavista.com/

this just doesn't work for me too much times.


this one (http://www.worldlingo.com/en/websites/url_translator.html) seems to work much better.

Just wanted to add my views of the 900 to the overall discussion

I have had the unit for about 2 weeks now. I have been in the process of building a dedicated HT room for about a year now in my new TH. I agonized and researched to death , but in the end the 900 u was a better fit for me then then BenQ 7700 or Optoma H78dc3.

This is my 1st projector but in the last 3 years I have owned a Hitachi 51" RPTV, Hitachi 57" RPTV , and now have a Hitachi 60" LCD. The rest of my equipment was bought with the new projector also so I was very excited to step up to the dedicated room.

My equipment for the room:
Marantz AV 9300
Marantz DV8400
Rotel 1095
Monster Power AVS 2000
4 Swan 5.2's
Swan C3
HSU VTFMK2
Custom Adona Corp Audio rack.

I chose a 110" Carada High gain screen in 1:78:1, the Criterion series.

This was my first experience setting up a projector, and it could not have been any easier. I mounted the unit on a wall stand for a TV at the back of the room. It worked out really well and allowed me to tweak the unit very easy. I have the projector almost dead center to the center of the screen.

After all the setup, the real run began. I was worried about black levels not being as great as I liked, or FPN and distracting vertical banding. All I can say was how stunned I was and still am at the picture quality. Black levels are very impressive to my eye. Shadow detail is excellent. The colors right out of the box looked incredible to me. The level of detail on the screen was amazing and the image looked very smooth with no screen dooring or artifacting at normal viewing levels. Right now I am only using component, but I might test my DV 8400 DVI-HDMI (non-upconverting) against my denon 2910 on the middle level. I could not be happier with my purchase considering the image quality and the price point the unit came in at.


Rick

I find myself agreeing with another poster in this thread which might seem strange as earlier in the thread I agreed with someone who posted that they were slightly underwhelmed by their AE900!

After upgrading from an AE300, after a few hours use I too was slightly underwhelmed. Not that I thought the AE900 was a bad projector, I thought it was fantastic, it was just that I felt the difference wasn't night and day between it and my old AE300. Black levels didn't look much better, I put the improved clarity down to comparing a brand new AE900 with a 9970hr AE300 (albeit a very well maintained one). Popped the fan on high as I had done on my old AE300 to prevent heat problems and felt the supposed quieter fans were as loud as my AE300's. The PJ was a definite improvement overall I thought but not worth upgrading to.

Well my opinion has definitely changed after putting another 70 hours on my AE900.

First off, Black levels. Wasn't too impressed to begin with as I said. Then I noticed that while the black bars were definitely grey, when I set the OSD to black and moved it down to the bottom of the screen to compare directly with the 2.35:1 black bars, I found the OSD was much blacker than the 'Black' bars and even compared favorably with the black screen border. Aha! So the PJ is capable of a deeper black. I then dug out a Star Wars DVD and ran the THX Optimizer (only calibration tool I have) I found that to comply with the tests (Running PJ in Cinema 1) I had to up the contrast to +4 and decrease the brightness to -8. WOW! What a difference! definitely going to keep an eye on the AE900 tweak thread now to see if I can keep these levels of black while improving shadow detail. Now I can see that there is a definite worthwhile improvement in blacks with this new PJ over my old AE300. The new brighter bulb helps a lot I think. If I turned the brightness down on my AE300 the image probably would have been too dim to watch.

Really impressed now with the extra lumens too. Gives the image so much more punch then my old PJ even though I run it in Low lamp mode. TBH the difference between High Lamp and Low Lamp is negligable to my eye like it was on my AE100 and AE300. Not worth sacrificing a couple of thousand bulb hours for a barely noticable increase in brightness IMHO. I know the extra Lumens even in Low Lamp are there on the spec sheet anyway but I don't think I am overstating the difference either even though my AE300 bulb was near its end (4970hrs) and it seems an unfair comparison. When I put that bulb in brand new I couldn't see the difference between it and my first 5000hr AE300 bulb.

As for clarity, I am sure it has a lot to do with the brightness and improved blacks but I also now think a lot of it is due to the extra resolution and improved smoothscreen. By improved I mean its probably less severe and thus has less of a softening effect than it did on the AE300 (not that that bothered me anyway). It doesn't need to be as severe as the extra resolution of the panels and their smaller pixel size and fill ratio mean a 'Weaker' smooth Screen filter. ie. just strong enough to totally get rid of the chicken wire but not strong enough to soften of blur the image. They have also banished 'Peekaboo' scanline artifact IMO with the AE900. Don't see it at all on this new PJ. Peekaboo was one of the only 'Bugs' that I personally ever noticed on my AE300 and I found that defocussing got rid of it altogether. No need to defocus my AE900 at all. I'm sure that helps clarity too! :D

As for sharpness. Well I must admit I have never seen another PJ in action besides my AE100 and AE300. I found the softer AE300 image with its smoothscreen much more preferable to the 'Sharp' Chicken wired image of my old AE100. For all I know, had I access to a Z4 for instance, I might be wowed by its sharpness. TBH though I can't imagine an image being any sharper than my new AE900. Looks both sharp to my eyes and smooth and filmic. Maybe thats a contradiction but thats how my eyes see it. It certainly wasn't lacking sharpness when I brought the PC into the HT and ran some Microsoft HD clips! First time I've seen HD in action btw. Have to say that I think that it shows how good I feel Pal DVD is when I was underwhelmed by the Alexander and T2 clips when compared to my DVD versions. An improvement but not as dramatic as I expected. As for the Documentaries though!! If these are more comparable to HD TV material then the comparison between those and PAL SD were night and day! Wow! Although maybe in practice the difference wouldn't be so dramatic seeing as there would be much less compression on the HD clip than on the PAL SD cable broadcasts. Maybe a fairer comparison would be comparing the HD doc clips with PAL SD running the same compression. After all digital PAL SD is Mpeg2 just the same as DVD but unfortunately running with much less bandwidth. Maybe broadcast HD if it ever got over here would have its quality reduced by the same bandwidth restrictions and the difference wouldn't be so dramatic, though tbh the broadcasters would be taking away with one hand what they gave with the other. ie. get us to upgrade our equipment and pay increased subscriptions, all for the improved picture and then squander all that extra resolution by running to high a compression to get it to fit in 'stingy' bandwidth.

Anyway I am getting sidetracked by HD. Back to the PJ.

As for the fan noise being the same. Well it is the same in high fan as it was on my AE300. Thing is though that I don't think I need to run high fan anymore with this new AE900. Yesterday I went into the service menu to look at the temps with the fan still in high as it had been since I got the PJ. PJ had been on for a few hours at this stage and the ambient Temp in the room felt quite pleasant. Temp 1 read 156 and Temp 2 read 178. At first I thought, "That can't be right?? My old AE300 on high fan ran a panel temp of 90-100 depending how long it had been since I cleaned the fan blades and ducting to improve efficiency!!". "Damn, Panasonic must have changed the Temp numbering system!"

Then I noticed that the old rule still applied, of the higher the number, the lower the temp. Also noticed that the Temp 2 reading (ie intake fan/ambient room temp)of 178 was the same as it was on my AE300. So they hadn't changed the temp numbering system. My panel temps really were nearly 60 points lower on this PJ compared to my AE300. Holy Cow! I then dropped the fan speed down to Low and left the PJ for another few hours to let the temps re-adjust and equalise. The temp only increased/dropped (you know what I mean) down to 145 and yet now with the fan on low I couldn't hear a whisper from the fans! So all things being equal, if the longevity of my AE300 bulbs and PJ internals were increased by running high fan giving a temp of 90-100, then I should have no worries running Low fan on this new AE900 which still gives temps 45-55 points lower than the 'longevity giving' temps of 90-100 on my old AE300.

I know the general trend in the industry in the past was to miniaturize but I think the increased height and width of the AE700/900 was down to Panasonic realising that people would accept a bigger PJ if it meant there were less heat related issues. This meant they could accommodate larger and slightly slower spinning fans which increased airflow and reduced fan noise. They were also able to accommodate better and more extensive air-ducting within the PJ I would imagine. So I am even less worried about heat related issues with my AE900 than I was with my AE300 and yet I get to run Low Fan which is virtually silent to boot! Excellent! :D

Also thrilled to note that I cannot see the dynamic Iris in action at all. ie it works but I don't see any sudden brightness changes or flickering etc. I've read that not only does the Z4 suffer from a slow iris but preliminary reports are that the new hitachi and Epson do too. Either I'm not sensitive to it or Panasonics hyperbole about the 60hz scanning speed of the iris electronics and fast iris actuators is true.

Now to FPN and VB. definitely noticed some FPN on my AE300 though it didn't bother me that much. Can't say I've noticed any FPN on sky,grass or snow pans yet on my AE900. As for VB, never saw that on my AE300 but noticed it on my AE900. Strange thing was was that I didn't notice it on red or green test screens but only on blue. I also only noticed it on Cinema 1 and 2 but not really on Cinema 3. However, with an actual image displayed I only rarely noticed it on the odd sky scene. Thus I set the picture mode to Cinema 3. Then I remembered mention of the flicker tweak and panel tweak in the service menu. Went into those menus and found that while the red and the green settings seemed about right, the blue needed some adjustment. Reduced VB on the blue panel and went back to look for VB in Cinema 3 with the blue test screen. No VB but then again I had never seen much in Cinema 3 mode anyway. Changed to Cinema 1 with the blue test screen which I actually did see VB on before adjustment and now the VB was gone from there too! Put back on the Starwars Hoth scenes where I had seen VB and I couldn't spot any at all. YES!! :D

So to finish off (bet you thought, "when is this guy ever going to finish"!) I now feel the upgrade (albeit only necessary because I dropped my AE300's prism/panel array while cleaning! :D ) was definitely worth it. If I remember correctly the AE500 has more in common with the AE300 than the AE700 or AE900, and thus an AE900 is probably also a worthwhile upgrade from the AE500. As for the AE700, well thats a harder question to answer. Never saw an AE700 in action so can't really comment on whether the AE900 is a worthy upgrade from that. I guess all things being equal, if you have an AE700 with no issues VB etc or you don't notice any issues it has or are not bothered by the issues then the increased contrast might not be enough to make it seem like a worth while upgrade. If it does have issues that really bother you then if the general consensus is that the AE900 suffers from these issues less then maybe the AE900 does become a worthwhile upgrade for you even from the AE700. Basically for AE700 owners it seems you guys have to balance how much any issues you have bother you and whether they are rectified by the AE900 and whether the cost to upgrade seems worth it to you. Say the cost to upgrade was $1200. Some of us might not bat an eyelid at that and feel it was worth it to get rid of our issues with the AE700. Others might decide that they would rather live with their AE700 issues than pay another $1200 to upgrade to get a PJ that 'might' suffer from those issues less.

i finished read this - few.............. :eek:

but thx for a good post :)

calibos, thanks for the great post!

I, too, was a little underwhelmed at first. However, I agree with most of your comments, and my opinion is changing.

To put it simply, while watching movies, I no longer notice shortcomings. In my last projector (Plus Piano), I was always wishing for. With the 900, I think technology is finally at the point that any compromises are minimal (to me). Can only imagine what my next projector will be like. :)

Mine should be here today. It'll be my first projector. Since the theater is not finished, I'm going to shoot it at a white sheet on the wall just for kicks and giggles.

I'll give my first impressions tomorrow. :)

KP

i second this and join his congrat's :)


thanks a lot! much happier now.

what about that EU satelite - Euro1080 (http://www.euro1080.tv/) ?
can;t you receive it?


yeah i could get that if i had satellite tv and the correct decoder and everything. not really worth it for what is essentially a demo of hdtv.

im waiting for it to be available in the mainstream hopefully by cable. i wont be holding my breath for that. im pretty sure that blu ray will be here first. and of course today is the one month countdown to the xbox360 european release, and all games must be presented in 720p or 1080i. yippee!!

calibos,

thanks for your interesting post. i also am feeling pretty happy with the ae900, although i still think its more of an incremental increase... however i was always so impressed with my ae300 that i guess its hard to beat.

regarding noise, thats interesting what you say. i have now tested two ae900's due to my first one with the whining sound being replaced. however i still think that in low fan mode, the ae300 sounded smoother, if not quieter.

whats weird is that when watching a film scene, it is difficult to describe, but the fan just doesnt sound smooth. on the other hand, when i pause the film and bring up my dvd PLAYER menu, the fan gets somehow smoother and quieter... also if i switch between sources, just in the second that it is switching, the pj is quieter, and just after, it gets slightly noisier again... can anyone else confirm if this is the case for them too?

sorry, but im a noise obsessive nowadays since i had that problem with the first ae900.

krlock2.

speaking of XBOX - i have a Playstation 2 and would love to connect it to the projector - but i recon some sayings that games, having static parts of the screen, can cause LCD panels burning - isn't this so?

calibos,

thanks for your interesting post. i also am feeling pretty happy with the ae900, although i still think its more of an incremental increase... however i was always so impressed with my ae300 that i guess its hard to beat.

regarding noise, thats interesting what you say. i have now tested two ae900's due to my first one with the whining sound being replaced. however i still think that in low fan mode, the ae300 sounded smoother, if not quieter.

whats weird is that when watching a film scene, it is difficult to describe, but the fan just doesnt sound smooth. on the other hand, when i pause the film and bring up my dvd PLAYER menu, the fan gets somehow smoother and quieter... also if i switch between sources, just in the second that it is switching, the pj is quieter, and just after, it gets slightly noisier again... can anyone else confirm if this is the case for them too?

sorry, but im a noise obsessive nowadays since i had that problem with the first ae900.

krlock2.

you should replace fan's internal wiring to "transparent cable super ultra xl".
and don't forget those cable risers !!!

:D :D :D :D :D

Re: The broad warm-to-cool, across-the-screen color shift noticed on 700 & 900:

This effect was also immediately apparent on my 700, and, as noted by others, only visible in B&W images. Rankling, as I have many B&W favorites. It occurs to me that the reversal of the color shift upon broad changes in zoom setting, as experienced by others as well as me, should preclude any possibility of the problem originating with the LCD panels, and that it's more likely linked to a relationship between the elements in the zoom lens. Perhaps there are other factors I'm not considering. This problem, for my part, has seemed like small potatoes, if visible at all, since my 700 entered the "Dim Times" back at 155 hours. Lucky me. It's been in the shop for about a week and a half, so I can't check my memory now, but I seem to recall the ability to increase and decrease the intensity of the effect with varying combinations of zoom and lens shift, further suggesting an optics origin for the problem. I mention it because, unlike, say, a convergence issue, there's simply no practical fix for an optics artifact, other than finding the closest thing to a "sweet spot" possible within one's throw/screen size/lens shift limitations.

I did have one nutty idea. I hesitate to mention it: A gel filter, if one subtle enough could be found (questionable), positioned to balance one of the areas of color shift extreme to within a tolerable range against the other. The color of the gel, I've reasoned, could even be off a bit and still be effective if it bridges the gap somewhat between the extremes. The problem of an abrupt, sharp edge of an off-centered filter appears completely negligible in tests I've done with gels on hand, which lay just too far beyond the plane of focus to be perceptible. Using two abutted opposite color filters seems even less feasible, as they would have to be extremely subtle, indeed, although such a balance might be needed for uniform brightness. Any possibility of such a tweak hinges, as I've said, on the existence of filters faint enough. There may be no such beast.

Told you it was nutty.

KongFan
KongFan:
How did you surmise that the 900 has the same warm-to-cool, across-the-screen color shift as our 700's ? I've been wondering if this defect was corrected on the new 900.

Great post Calibos, excellent insight into one of the people who werent impressed initially by the AE900. Im a lot more confident that i will be as impressed when moving from my AE500 to the AE900 and going from a cheap $50 in 55" diagonal screen to a Draper High Contrast Grey 77". Im a fan of extreme blacks and great images, brightness is not as much of an issue for me.

I should hopefully receive my projector on Saturday (though my delivery date has been put back twice, once from the 11th October, then to the 14th October, and then the 4th November, so i really hope i get it this weekend. When i do, ill be sure to do a detailed laymans review on it, and get it set up completely with my DVE disc. I have some 2ft squared samples of Draper HiDef Grey, High Contrast Grey, M1300, Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision, Cinema Vision, and Da-Mat, Carada 1.4 Matt White, 1.1 Matt White and 0.8 Grey. So i'll do a little comparison for those unsure of which screen to get which might help you decide.

Chris

BTW - i ordered from AVS cut to size da lite cinema vision - for about 120" screen.
hopefully will get it in a week..............

read over some of the cine4home review. looks like the 900 will track D65 much better than the 700. 700 was excellent from 20ire-100-ire but got too cool from 0-20. 900 doesnt seem to spike blue from 0-20 and there is also more red from 0-20 which should help(i'm referring specifically to cinema 1 for those who wont use a filter and to video mode for those of us who will use a filter). also noticed the colorimetry seemed way off before calibration. that explains why darin saw orange reds. fortunately, after calibration, colorimetry is excellent.

Did the cine4home review say anything about using a filter with the AE900U to achieve higher contrast levels ala the AE700U?

Anyone else tested this?

Hi Croc, the Da-Lite Cinema Vision was one of the screens I was looking at. For it to work and work well, you really need to have a light controlled room, ie: no reflection from any other materials/walls/ceilings in the room. My walls are white and the image looked a tiny bit washed out on this screen as well as the blacks being a greyish colour.

In contrast, the Draper HiDef Grey had a very similar colour balance for the bright scenes as the Da-Lite CV, but was able to produce far better black levels. The difference was huge. The Da-Lite Cinema Vision did fair better in the brighter scenes, and although the Draper was not as bright, the colours were fairly accurate and the blacks were pretty deep. They were not as deep as the Carada 0.8 grey or the Da-Lite HCCV screens, but both of these suffered from a poorer colour reproduction in the bright scenes. The Carada was well off the mark with its bright scenes, most of the skies in lord of the rings that were white on the Cinema Vision screen, had a very pronounced yellow/brown tint to it with the Carada and the HCCV had a lesser tint of yellow also.

All in all, the overall image quality in terms of blacks/whites/and overall contrast i think faired best with the Draper HiDef. Im still awaiting the High Contrast Ratio screen from Draper to see if it has the same abilities to produce deeper blacks and better contrast ratios but at the same time keep the bright and accurate colours and whites. If it does this like the HiDef gery, then im on to a winner since its the screen that im most likely to get.

Chris

Did the cine4home review say anything about using a filter with the AE900U to achieve higher contrast levels ala the AE700U?

Anyone else tested this?

Certainly an 81c Filter works wonders with my AE500. I should receive the 900 on Saturday, all being well, so i can better get an understanding of whether it will have much of an advantage then. Whilst the black levels do increase to a deeper black, the overall image brightness decreases somewhere in the region of 30% (naked eye only guesstimate). The colours also have a slight more bias to an orange tint, hence the warming effect of the filter.

I have other filters i can try once i receive the PJ.

Chris

BTW, there's a lot more filter discussion on the AE900 Tweaks thread.

Cine4home's review is well done as usual and confirms much of what we've discussed here and on the Tweaks thread:

1. Cinema 1 provides excellent D65 tracking
2. The more lens shift used, the more convergence errors appear
3. Gamma is also good with Cinema 1 (I agree about the comments regarding the Gamma adjustments in that High should not be adjusted, but I got some very good results with adjustment of Medium and Low)
4. Overscan issues of the 700 are corrected
5. Some units still have VB, some more than others

My CIE chart looked almost the same as his, with green pushed and red slightly so. Also, as noted, that can be adjusted however. I'll be posting the OpticOne analysis and ettings I have in the Tweaks thread soon.

The one downside he mentioned that I have not seen is the double contours issue. I'll look into that a little more, but I find that the AE900's picture is less digital looking than the competition, not more so.

Did the cine4home review say anything about using a filter with the AE900U to achieve higher contrast levels ala the AE700U?

Anyone else tested this?

I have not seen the AE-900. I do how ever own the AE-700 with an 81EF filter.
I have been told that the difference between the AE-700 and 900 are so minimal that the difference is pretty much un-detectible. Somewhere in the 3-5% range as far as improvement and picture characteristics. I won't mention names, but I was looking to upgrade from my AE-700 and get a 900 and this is what I was told. This person said I would be better off waiting for 1080P units in the future.
I would bet you could use the same filter and Brad Bissel settings for the 900 to get you in the ball park then calibrate from there.
I feel the filter has helped improve the pjs over all performance and I am just using the BB settings I obtained from this site.
I plan to get the unit professionally calibrated once I get about 100 hours on it.

Craig

Hi Croc, the Da-Lite Cinema Vision was one of the screens I was looking at. For it to work and work well, you really need to have a light controlled room, ie: no reflection from any other materials/walls/ceilings in the room. My walls are white and the image looked a tiny bit washed out on this screen as well as the blacks being a greyish colour.

In contrast, the Draper HiDef Grey had a very similar colour balance for the bright scenes as the Da-Lite CV, but was able to produce far better black levels. The difference was huge. The Da-Lite Cinema Vision did fair better in the brighter scenes, and although the Draper was not as bright, the colours were fairly accurate and the blacks were pretty deep. They were not as deep as the Carada 0.8 grey or the Da-Lite HCCV screens, but both of these suffered from a poorer colour reproduction in the bright scenes. The Carada was well off the mark with its bright scenes, most of the skies in lord of the rings that were white on the Cinema Vision screen, had a very pronounced yellow/brown tint to it with the Carada and the HCCV had a lesser tint of yellow also.

All in all, the overall image quality in terms of blacks/whites/and overall contrast i think faired best with the Draper HiDef. Im still awaiting the High Contrast Ratio screen from Draper to see if it has the same abilities to produce deeper blacks and better contrast ratios but at the same time keep the bright and accurate colours and whites. If it does this like the HiDef gery, then im on to a winner since its the screen that im most likely to get.

Chris

Bummer. This is not encouraging. I am locked into a Da-Lite screen because I installed a ceiling mounted electric case (into my plant shelf) from Da-Lite (without the fabric roller) when my house was being built. I really don't want to rip it out and have to install something else. I was planning to pair the 900 with with the Cinema Vision or HCCV from Da-lite.

My room is not light controlled - white walls, white ceiling, beige tile. I was planning to use the 900 as a secondary viewing device primarily at night, so I was hoping it would not be too much of a problem.

Bummer. This is not encouraging. I am locked into a Da-Lite screen because I installed a ceiling mounted electric case (into my plant shelf) from Da-Lite (without the fabric roller) when my house was being built. I really don't want to rip it out and have to install something else. I was planning to pair the 900 with with the Cinema Vision or HCCV from Da-lite.

My room is not light controlled - white walls, white ceiling, beige tile. I was planning to use the 900 as a secondary viewing device primarily at night, so I was hoping it would not be too much of a problem.


I have the Da-Lite HCCV screen with my AE-700 and love it.
My screen is in a light controlled room though and the screen has masking.

Craig

Bummer. This is not encouraging. I am locked into a Da-Lite screen because I installed a ceiling mounted electric case (into my plant shelf) from Da-Lite (without the fabric roller) when my house was being built. I really don't want to rip it out and have to install something else. I was planning to pair the 900 with with the Cinema Vision or HCCV from Da-lite.

My room is not light controlled - white walls, white ceiling, beige tile. I was planning to use the 900 as a secondary viewing device primarily at night, so I was hoping it would not be too much of a problem.

Don't get me wrong, the image was still more than good, and if i was to view it on its own, without any other samples to compare it to, im sure i would be very satisfied. Da-Lite HCCV isnt a bad option either, if you want to stick with Da-Lite. On the bright scenes, the whites are not as crisp and white as the standard Cinema Vision or Da-Matt, but they are still more than adequate. For me, what makes an image extra special, is the level of detail you can see in dark scenes.

I personally think, that in a Dark room, thats not completely light controlled, like most peoples rooms, a screen like the Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision or the Draper HiDef / High Contrast Grey will give you a better image than any Matt White screen. There are a lot of variances in this, such as the size of the screen, the distance of the projector from the screen (though this is somewhat disputed), the amount of lumens the projector outputs, etc. I personally wouldnt have any objection to a slightly darker image overall, which usually results from the grey screens, because at the end of the day, personal opinion and viewing environments differ from person to person.

Your Da-Lite Cinema Vision would probably still look awesome. Get a sample of it and a sample of the High Contrast Cinema Vision from info@da-lite.com and make up your own mind

Chris


I have been told that the difference between the AE-700 and 900 are so minimal that the difference is pretty much un-detectible. Somewhere in the 3-5% range as far as improvement and picture characteristics.
I wouldnt be as sure as this. People said this about the AE700 over the AE500 when i was looking at it, but the difference was a lot. I have seen a side-by-side of the AE700 calibrated and the AE900 uncalibrated in Cinema1 mode both projecting onto a Studiotek 130 screen 120" diagonal from the same distance and i have to say that Black levels were a lot better on the AE900. With some calibration i would say that the difference could be as much as 30-40% better image overall. The overall projector is an update to the 700 granted, but with 50% better contrast ratios according to Cine4Home, then even if everything else was exactly the same, to me that would mean a 50% better image.

Chris

I wouldnt be as sure as this. People said this about the AE700 over the AE500 when i was looking at it, but the difference was a lot. I have seen a side-by-side of the AE700 calibrated and the AE900 uncalibrated in Cinema1 mode both projecting onto a Studiotek 130 screen 120" diagonal from the same distance and i have to say that Black levels were a lot better on the AE900. With some calibration i would say that the difference could be as much as 30-40% better image overall. The overall projector is an update to the 700 granted, but with 50% better contrast ratios according to Cine4Home, then even if everything else was exactly the same, to me that would mean a 50% better image.

Chris

Wow... that goes against what I was just told last night on the phone.
Interesting...
I must say, that since I have not seen the two firing side by side, I can't say one way or the other. On the other hand I have read where more people say the difference between the AE-700 and the AE-900 is marginal at best.
You are the first person who has said there is 40 to 50 percent improvement over the AE-700. ;)
Personally I find that hard to believe.

Craig

The one downside he mentioned that I have not seen is the double contours issue. I'll look into that a little more, but I find that the AE900's picture is less digital looking than the competition, not more so.

Thanks. That comment from them worries me, please report when you've looked into it. Maybe you just don't notice it when watching a movie?

NilsP

Wow... that goes against what I was just told last night on the phone.
Interesting...
I must say, that since I have not seen the two firing side by side, I can't say one way or the other. On the other hand I have read where more people say the difference between the AE-700 and the AE-900 is marginal at best.
You are the first person who has said there is 40 to 50 percent improvement over the AE-700. ;)
Personally I find that hard to believe.

Craig

Not quite 40-50% increase improvement. The picture in my opinion was around 30-40% better overall, with the contrast about 50% better as I agree with Cine4Home on that one. In fractions, i would say you are getting a 1/3rd more image quality for your money.

Not quite 40-50% increase improvement. The picture in my opinion was around 30-40% better overall, with the contrast about 50% better as I agree with Cine4Home on that one. In fractions, i would say you are getting a 1/3rd more image quality for your money.

Wow, since I am very happy with my AE-700 considering what I paid for it new I can't imagine what a 30-40% improvement would be.
My AE-700 is a great unit. It is not perfect, but then I didn't expect perfection at this pice point either. I honestly don't see VB on my AE-700 like everyone rants about. I have seen it very faintly pop up three times in the 50+ hours of use and even then it was only for 1 or 2 seconds.
I am going to wait for my upgrade for two or three years or when 1080p units come out.

Craig

Its probably also worth pointing out that i havent viewed either with HD material, ony ever Pal DVD.

Hello All, I really like the panasonic 700 or 900, I have an oportunity to buy a 700 for several hundred cheaper, my question is, Should I save the bucks and pickup the 700 or is the 900 that much better that I should spend the extra and get a more current unit?

Well I finally got to see a properly setup 900 @ my brothers house. We both have 500's and he upgraded, and didn't say a word to me before he did it. Anyway, he does have a evaluation period, if he chooses to send it back. From what I saw, and he agreed, the upgrade isn't as extreme as we thought it would be. Yes the blacks were a bit better. (light controlled room, Dark walls, floors. black ceiling.) Color, overall contrast was the same to us. Screen door (lack of ) was identical. The 500 was DVI connection both HD and DVD.
The 900 was HDCP both HD and DVD. both on his 100" wide matte white screen.


I came away from it not wanting to upgrade to the 900. Same as my brother. I guess I'll be waiting for the 1080P upgrade. Or maybe the Mits. HC3000.

I came away from it not wanting to upgrade to the 900. Same as my brother. I guess I'll be waiting for the 1080P upgrade. Or maybe the Mits. HC3000.

Are your 700's calibrated?
Was the 900 calibrated in a similar manner?

ted

We have 500's not 700's
The 500 and 900 were both calibrated using only the Avia DVD.
Also, the 900 was brighter, but again the 500 has 1475 hours on it's bulb. We tried to setup and display both pj's exactly the same.
We even switched cabling to each other when we tested componet conections. Both pj's looked best with their DVI/HDCP conections with all sources.
IMO, if 1080p wasn't so close to coming out, I would probably look to DLP this time, even though I have been a LCD person since I got my first pj almost 10 years ago.

So does that mean I should buy the Ae700 over the 900 and save the 30 percent differance in price?

We have 500's not 700's
The 500 and 900 were both calibrated using only the Avia DVD.
Also, the 900 was brighter, but again the 500 has 1475 hours on it's bulb. We tried to setup and display both pj's exactly the same.
We even switched cabling to each other when we tested componet conections. Both pj's looked best with their DVI/HDCP conections with all sources.
IMO, if 1080p wasn't so close to coming out, I would probably look to DLP this time, even though I have been a LCD person since I got my first pj almost 10 years ago.

Sorry about the 700 vs. 900 - stuck in my brain. :rolleyes:

Were you viewing both pj's side by side or blocking one while the other was on screen? Since you have experience you would know that side by side is not fair with respect to PQ as light from one PJ impacts the other - in particular with respect to black levels and hence CR.

ted

We blocked each pj as we A/B'ed them

I've heard a few reviewers say that CR makes a bigger difference when the room conditions are with dark walls ceiling etc vs a light room. I disagree with this. In fact I think the opposite. I also think the most important aspect of CR is the rooms condition. You can make a mediocre CR projector look better or equal as a high contrast pj if that lower CR pj is in a "DARK" room vs. a high CR pj in a light colored room.

I've heard a few reviewers say that CR makes a bigger difference when the room conditions are with dark walls ceiling etc vs a light room. I disagree with this. In fact I think the opposite. I also think the most important aspect of CR is the rooms condition. You can make a mediocre CR projector look better or equal as a high contrast pj if that lower CR pj is in a "DARK" room vs. a high CR pj in a light colored room.

The room has the greatest impact on ANSI (checkerboard) or instaneous CR.
On/Off provides the headroom for low APL scenes.

Since you brought up CR/Room - did you view dark material in your comparison? This is where the greater On/Off of the 900 should provide better instaneous CR and hence better black level detail.

Are you saying your room has a high ambient light level?

It has been discussed and shown on quite a few threads hereabouts that small amounts of light in a room can have adverse effects on black levels and hence CR and is likely to have a greater impact on the "better" PJ. So I disagree with your opinion that somehow a good Pj will outshine a bad one in a poor room. I think the value of a light controlled room cannot be overstated. I don't think this is the thread for this discussion however.

ted

A number of you commented that the difference between the AE300 and AE700/900 is not night-and-day.

In my case, when I upgraded from the 300 to 700 and used HD content, the difference was exactly that, to the point where I now ABSOLUTELY refuse to watch DVDs. Life is too short to put up with inferior PQ.

Try watching outstanding HD shows such as Saturday Night Live or CSI on the 300 and 700, and the difference is immediately obvious, even before you do any calibrating.

Darn!

Wouldn't you know it! I got my Panasonic 900 on Monday and just tonight (Wednesday) have had a chance to fire it up. Upon inspection, the lens has a 1/4" inner crack towards the bottom of the lens. It doesn't seem to affect the picture but I'm not happy about it.

I've only had a chance to put on XBox at this time which looks awesome but no sign of the crack interfering with the picture.

I bought it from an AVS Sponsor retailer. Should I just send it back and get another one?

Thanks! Jimmy

No, My room is a cave....... Yes we tested dark scenes.The 900 was better, not a whole lot. The one thing that isn't mentioned much about the 900 is the iris effect on changing light and dark scenes. I know it has a 1/60 sec. speed, but in certain instances it is noticeable. The 500 has no adjusting iris.

Any input? Trying to decide between the two. Will project onto top of fireplace from stand 13 to 14 feet back. Width of screen(using my off white wall) is 60 inches wide. Plan on using this for normal TV watching. Most light can be controlled. reviews on the 900 sound too good to be true. SDE is a concern for me too. Thank you.

Any input? Trying to decide between the two. Will project onto top of fireplace from stand 13 to 14 feet back. Width of screen(using my off white wall) is 60 inches wide. Plan on using this for normal TV watching. Most light can be controlled. reviews on the 900 sound too good to be true. SDE is a concern for me too. Thank you.
SDE on the HS51 would depend on how far back you sit from that 60 wide image. I believe that the AE900 is probably brighter than the HS51 in general, so that could be an advantage with it.

I prefer large images and that is one reason I like front projectors. And if you are looking in this price range then $4500 or so is probably too much, but I think you should know that at about that size, if you wanted a world class image I think you could get it with one of the new 60" Sony SXRD 1080p RPTVs. I believe the 50" model can be had for a reasonable amount less than $4k, but I don't know how much less. For only 60" wide with FPTV I might consider those 1080p Sony RPTVs instead as I think they are in another league, if the money wasn't a problem, placement wasn't a problem, and I wasn't planning on moving the FPTV around at times.

--Darin

I just received my ae900, and everything looks great except two things. First, no matter what source I feed (HD, DVD, or Xbox) there is a strip down the left edge of the screen. The colors in this area are typically lighter. When watching HD, it's about 1/4" wide. Standard Tv, and xbox the line is about 1". When watching DVD the area is lighter, but instead of having a straight line the disects the screen, it is all jagged. I have tried playing with the overscan, and other adjustments, and nothing has worked. I am also using both component inputs on the back of the unit, and both exhibit the problem. The second problem that I have is when I feed a non-progressive image there is noticable VB. I noticed this before I changed the component output on the back of my DVD player. Is there anything in the servce menu that may make a difference? The screen size is 82", and the dvd player is a Yamaha C940.

Thanks,
Steve

Any input? Trying to decide between the two. Will project onto top of fireplace from stand 13 to 14 feet back. Width of screen(using my off white wall) is 60 inches wide. Plan on using this for normal TV watching. Most light can be controlled. reviews on the 900 sound too good to be true. SDE is a concern for me too. Thank you.

I agree with Darinp2.

If you plan to use for normal viewing, I would suggest the AE900 as it is brighter than the HS51. However, you are probably better off with a CRT PJ if you dont dont plan on HD.

An RPTV is probably your best solution since you arent projecting larger than 80". Sony A10's are very affordable these days.

I just received my ae900, and everything looks great except two things. First, no matter what source I feed (HD, DVD, or Xbox) there is a strip down the left edge of the screen. The colors in this area are typically lighter. When watching HD, it's about 1/4" wide. Standard Tv, and xbox the line is about 1". When watching DVD the area is lighter, but instead of having a straight line the disects the screen, it is all jagged. I have tried playing with the overscan, and other adjustments, and nothing has worked. I am also using both component inputs on the back of the unit, and both exhibit the problem. The second problem that I have is when I feed a non-progressive image there is noticable VB. I noticed this before I changed the component output on the back of my DVD player. Is there anything in the servce menu that may make a difference? The screen size is 82", and the dvd player is a Yamaha C940.

Thanks,
Steve

try feeding it a signal from another device.. another dvd player, or laptop, or game console.. if you use another dvd player, use different cables. if you still get the same problem, at least you have confirmed that it is the pj specifically that is at fault.

You will not have any SDE concerns with the 900 in this situation. I do believe many of the reviews of the 900 to be inflated. When relying on opinions, you must realise that they are a guide at best.

All that being said, I would not use a front projection setup in your situation. At only 60", I would go with any of the other options that fit (plasma, rptv, etc.) TV watching with a front projector is not as convenient, forgiving of light or economical as rptv. If you wanted a larger size, then obviously front projection is the only way to go.

Any input? Trying to decide between the two. Will project onto top of fireplace from stand 13 to 14 feet back. Width of screen(using my off white wall) is 60 inches wide. Plan on using this for normal TV watching. Most light can be controlled. reviews on the 900 sound too good to be true. SDE is a concern for me too. Thank you.

Thanks. I can get 60 inches wide ~ 70 inches diagonal in the living room. The problem is space. Also don't want to place a plasma over the fireplace, or in front of my bay window.

I want to use this for both my living room and bedroom. In the bedroom I can project much larger. I was thinking instead of buying two TVs I can buy one projector and save some $$$. Does this make sense?

try feeding it a signal from another device.. another dvd player, or laptop, or game console.. if you use another dvd player, use different cables. if you still get the same problem, at least you have confirmed that it is the pj specifically that is at fault.

Each component is running it's own set of cables. If I can't figure it out I will call the dealer that I purchased it from, and see if I can get a new unit sent out.

I purchased my AE900U a month ago and after reading about the free bulb offer I called my retailer to inquire about the offer. He just wrote back and said he had called Panasonic and the offer is not available (this is in the US). :(

The alta-vista website is not working, and I tried another website language translator and it says "not allowed".

Does anyone know of a website which can be used to translate the cine4home review?

The one downside he mentioned that I have not seen is the double contours issue. I'll look into that a little more, but I find that the AE900's picture is less digital looking than the competition, not more so.

My AE900 has double contours. Perhaps it is a Pal related issue (since the pj has a slightly different lay out for the european market). However, it is only noticeable on test screens and upon close examination. I have not seen it in movies, nor does it in any way compromise the sharpness or depth of field.
I do have slight VB, and that's disappointing since it has to do with poor quality control. Maybe Panasonic will help me out in this regard(still waiting for their response)

For me, the 900 is a great projector and (as stated before) better than the 700 by a considerable margin. However, if I would still have the 700 I would be more focussed on the good qualities that they share than on the differences in favour of the 900. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
I'm sure the 500 is a great model and it is great if you don't feel the need to upgrade. If you do, the 900 provides plenty of justification for the upgrade.

I thought the review of cine4home was excellent. It is brought in a factual manner. How you rate it's pros and cons is entirely up to you.
This is how I interpret or summarize the review: great projector, on some qualities it is better than the competition (like the deinterlacer and iris response) on some things it misses out(like the relative lack of tweaking options). And very disappointing that Panasonic did not take the opportunity to tackle every known weak point of the 700 like the convergence errors and double contours. Why disappointing? Because this pj could have been even greater than it already is. I don't feel the urge to compare it with a z4 or anything else for that matter. The pj is just plain great. If something like a z4 can do something similar, that's great news for anyone considering or owning a z4. Personally, I'm not really bothered by this comparison questions. If you can, preview the pj's for your self. If you can't, use the reviews as a guide, weigh your own pros and cons, and don't look back after purchase. Wasted energy IMO.

Does anyone know of a website which can be used to translate the cine4home review?

I like this one (http://www.online-translator.com/srvurl.asp?lang=en). It will take a little time to complete the translation, but it does a pretty good job.

My AE900 has double contours. Perhaps it is a Pal related issue (since the pj has a slightly different lay out for the european market). However, it is only noticeable on test screens and upon close examination. I have not seen it in movies, nor does it in any way compromise the sharpness or depth of field.

That's quite possible about it being a PAL issue. I didn't get a chance to check it yesterday, but I'll try and check both out later. Thanks for the input.

Personally, I'm not really bothered by this comparison questions. If you can, preview the pj's for your self. If you can't, use the reviews as a guide, weigh your own pros and cons, and don't look back after purchase. Wasted energy IMO.

Very true. Each person should weigh what's most important to them. Much like the "Secrets" DVD player reviews, you can't just look at the overall score, since you may have a different weighting to each category based on your needs.

I like this one (http://www.online-translator.com/srvurl.asp?lang=en). It will take a little time to complete the translation, but it does a pretty good job.

Nice translator.

thanx

:)

Are Tiffen filters good for use on the projectors?? It seems that everyone mentions B&W, I have a friend who is selling some Tiffen filters and I think I can get a good deal.

Hi. I have the Panasonic s77 DVD player set to 720p and the ae900u. How do I ensure 1:1 pixel mapping? Do I just need turn off the the overscan?

Thanks,

Laz

Hi. I have the Panasonic s77 DVD player set to 720p and the ae900u. How do I ensure 1:1 pixel mapping? Do I just need turn off the the overscan?

Thanks,

Laz

Yes, if it is HDMI and assuming the player is sending either a non-overscanned or non cropped image.

ted

I saw a 900 pj today setup, I was quite thrilled with its quality palying the Panasonic Demo DVD, no HD content so it must only get better. I do have to mention as a potential first pj purchase for me, I left the viewing room with what I would call an eye headache that lasted for quite awhile, is that something u get used to? I was standing in 14 to 15 feet from a 110 dia screen.

I'm still a little pissed about Panny not offering the rebate to those only weeks (not months) earlier purchased the projector gave the early reviews to those sitting on the fence.....but that's a another post and not my reason for this rant.

My projector shipped on Friday, the 30th of September....it arrived on the 5th of October. I called today (midwestern retailer in Mpls who is large panny retailer and service center) to pay for the extended warranty. I was told I was 3 days too late. I was pretty pissed. She even called her panny rep before calling me to see if they would give an exception and the answer was no. Anyone have any suggestions or experiences in this area. The irony is to be denied the privledge of spending money on a company, who I feel treated the early adopter so poorly by not grandfathering in the rebate....even offering a discount on a replacement lamp...something to acknowledge the "slight."

The CE industry is very competitive as we are seeing with all the recent well produced inexpensive FP available. I guess my next projector will not be a Panny.

Ron

What extended warranty were you trying to get? If it's aftermarket one, they generally have to be purchased at the same time as the projector. The one Panny offers can be purchased at any time before the one year warranty's up, but I was told by Panny yesterday that their extended warranty is not available for the AE900. :(

What extended warranty were you trying to get? If it's aftermarket one, they generally have to be purchased at the same time as the projector. The one Panny offers can be purchased at any time before the one year warranty's up, but I was told by Panny yesterday that their extended warranty is not available for the AE900. :(

Mike: I was told by the retailer that I could purchase an extended warranty 30 days after the fact....but it's 30 days from the date of billing, not when I receive the projector. When I asked whose policy it was...she said Panny. When I asked who the warranty was through, she said Panny. She said he called her panny rep. before calling me back to see what her options were in offering me the extended warranty.

I should say that I really like the projector and feel it's a very good value for the money.....but I also feel they have been short sighted in their treatment of the early adopter and will weight that in deciding to buy from them again...the warranty issue is the nail in the coffin.


Ron

Yea Ron...I am pissed to...We live and learn...Being this is my first pj, I now know the games this industry plays on its loyal customers. Is this just with Panasonic or do they all do this?

Steve.

Mike: I was told by the retailer that I could purchase an extended warranty 30 days after the fact....but it's 30 days from the date of billing, not when I receive the projector. When I asked whose policy it was...she said Panny. When I asked who the warranty was through, she said Panny. She said he called her panny rep. before calling me back to see what her options were in offering me the extended warranty.

I should say that I really like the projector and feel it's a very good value for the money.....but I also feel they have been short sighted in their treatment of the early adopter and will weight that in deciding to buy from them again...the warranty issue is the nail in the coffin.


Ron

I would tell your vendor you want to return the projector (if they let you). Then go buy it someone else and get the warranty. Regardless of whose policy the 30 days it (Panny or some third-party), it is your vendors fault for not telling you that it had to be purchased 30 days from billing vs. delivery. Also, a reputable vendor would not have billed you until (or just before) your unit shipped. I doubt it took 33 days to be delivered.

Mike: I was told by the retailer that I could purchase an extended warranty 30 days after the fact....but it's 30 days from the date of billing, not when I receive the projector. When I asked whose policy it was...she said Panny. When I asked who the warranty was through, she said Panny. She said he called her panny rep. before calling me back to see what her options were in offering me the extended warranty.

Most warranties are based on the date of sale, which typically would be the same as the date shipped, not when it's received. That's strange about the Panny warranty info because when I called for more info about their Customer Care program (extended warranty), I was told that the AE900 is listed as a "Professional series" projector, it wasn't eligible for the extended warranty. :confused:

Mike,
You sure were told the wrong info. Panasonic professional projectors come with a 3 year warranty , which includes Panasonic's "Zip it" program, which is their overnight no cost replacement projector until yours is fixed.

I bought my projector on Sept 29th - I wrote my dealer (forum sponsor) to complain about the rebate - they took care of it and made my serial number eligible for the rebate. Just mailed it in today.

I saw a 900 pj today setup, I was quite thrilled with its quality palying the Panasonic Demo DVD, no HD content so it must only get better. I do have to mention as a potential first pj purchase for me, I left the viewing room with what I would call an eye headache that lasted for quite awhile, is that something u get used to? I was standing in 14 to 15 feet from a 110 dia screen.

i have never heard of this before with lcd projectors so i wouldnt worry about it.

krlock2

I saw a 900 pj today setup, I was quite thrilled with its quality palying the Panasonic Demo DVD, no HD content so it must only get better. I do have to mention as a potential first pj purchase for me, I left the viewing room with what I would call an eye headache that lasted for quite awhile, is that something u get used to? I was standing in 14 to 15 feet from a 110 dia screen.


I have had this, when I first got my 700.

It was from watching in 'normal' mode(I have a cave) before I made any adjustments.
I even used to get it in 'natural' mode before I adjusted the levels.

I don't get this anymore, except once, watching during the day with some friends, door and window open, lots of light, I had it set to 'dynamic' - never doing that again. Shut the bloody door! :p

You could also get it from concentrating too hard on the image(stop looking for problems!) but I never did that. nope. never. :o

For those stating that the are hard pressed to see any difference between the AE700 and the AE900, I for one disagree. I think the overall image is better, mainly because of the level of blacks and the higher contrast ratio. As Cine4Home states:

With correct colors, speak in the Cinema1 mode, a contrast-ratio of 1500:1 is left. Indeed, clearly under the maximum value of the technical data, but still an increase about 50% over the predecessor PT700....

...In the picture this high contrast relation is stamped by a good black value ...

...All together the projector in this column shows respectable achievements. It offers an improved black value without entering compromises in the maximum brightness.



Clearly there are improvements, and i was able to see these very clearly in a side by side shoot out of an AE700 v AE900, the former calibrated, the latter in Cinema1 mode. Even uncalibrated, the AE900 looked a fair bit better. There was a black 10f t board in between both projectors, to cut out any unwanted ambient light reaching either of the Studiotek 130 screens.

I still dont understand how people can say that there is virtually no difference between the AE700 and the AE900. When i got my AE500 2 years ago, i looked at the AE700 when it came out. I decided that the slight increase in contrast ratio and black levels, although noticeable, was not enough to warrant a purchase from me at that time. So, in that respect, I can see why 700 users may not upgrade to the 900 since the difference is probably not a big enough jump for them. However, although i didnt make the move from AE500 to the AE700, is was clear to me that there was a definite advantage in the picture over the AE500. Same as it is clear to me that there is a definite advantage in the picture quality from the AE700 to the AE900.

What i really dont understand is how some people cannot see a difference between the AE300/AE500 to the AE900. Im not saying these people are incorrect, as of course, everyones own opinion is always best for them, but i am trying to get my head around it. I noticed a difference between the AE300 and the AE500 when i made my purchase. The difference was less between these two models that it was between the AE500 and the AE700 in my opinion.

Overall, I do understand the reason behind not upgrading if you are waiting for a 1080p model to come. However, for me the upgrade is a sure thing. I paid roughly £1200 for my PTAE500 over two years ago. About 700 hours on the lamp as i only ever watch it in Low mode and for DVD's. I sold it recently for nearly £600. The new PTAE900 can be had for less than double that from a reputable dealer in Europe. For me, thats a big plus. If a 1080p comes out in the next two years in LCD, ill probably upgrade again if the blacks are better once more.

Well just my two cents. Maybe I ranted a little, but i just found out that my delivery of the PTAE900 has been put back again until the 8th November. :-( Thats the 4th time its been put back...

I saw a 900 pj today setup, I was quite thrilled with its quality palying the Panasonic Demo DVD, no HD content so it must only get better. I do have to mention as a potential first pj purchase for me, I left the viewing room with what I would call an eye headache that lasted for quite awhile, is that something u get used to? I was standing in 14 to 15 feet from a 110 dia screen.

Sore heads tend to be more of an issue with DLP and not LCD. The LCD panny 900 shouldnt really be giving you a sore head. Where you too close to the screen and found yourself constantly having to adjust what part of the image you were looking at? Also, to rule out a one off headache, go back down and view it again if possible. Sit atleast 1.5x the width of the screen from the screen. IE if your screen is around 100 wide inch, then sit about 150 inches from the screen when viewing.

.


What i really dont understand is how some people cannot see a difference between the AE300/AE500 to the AE900.



hi oriphus.

i dont think that anyone has really said that there is no difference. I was one of those who tended to agree that the difference was incremental. spot the difference between those two last statements?

i think i was so happy with my ae300 that when i saw the ae900 image, i couldnt simply say... wow, that is 5x better, or 3x better, or even 1.5x.

im very happy to upgrade and when i get my hands on HDTV material, im sure i will be happier still.

i personally say that the ae900 picture looks about 1.3x better, without factoring in the brightness change from the new bulb.

but then again, what are people expecting... to have a picture twice as clear and bright and dark and sharp? well, that would be quite a step up, wouldnt it... when you stop to think about it.

apart from my constant grumbling that the ae300 fan noise is easier to dismiss in low lamp mode than the ae900 in low lamp mode, im now becoming very happy that i upgraded.

i think i have good eyes. i dont think i have videophile eyes. just good eyes. i also dont take my projectors apart like cine4home, i just take it out of the box and use it to watch movies. i dont bring out a light sensor or draw a graph to measure lumen output. that doesnt mean im better than anyone else, or worse. if someone wants to do that and talk about the mathematical formulae for the human eye to discern resolutions at certain distances..... thats great! really good if they like that stuff. super. of course, sites dont take apart televisions when they review them do they... but thats just an aside.

so i make a subjective assessment ... yes, subjective as hell. same as when i subjectively assess all the products i buy. and i trust my judgement. im open to reason, nevertheless.

and my judgement is this.

the ae300 was the best thing i ever bought. i loved it. its a shame to see it go. tears of nostalgia.

the ae900 is an incremental step up. i think i upgraded at about the right time. im not sure i would have been to happy to upgrade to the ae500 or ae700. not sure. but im overall happy to have got the ae900. i especially cant wait to test xbox 360 on it. i dont have access to hdtv, so im really hoping that the day my xbox 360 arrives, i will be back on here extolling the virtues even more, and weeping tears of joy.

would i recommend the ae900 to a first time projector buyer? i can tell you, i would, i have, and will continue to do so with great enthusiasm.... it really is a fine experience. perhaps i have now become a pj veteran with more discerning taste than before. who knows.

but if you are a newbie, or even want to upgrade (or downgrade from a 10,000 dollar pj according to projectorcentral - hahaha), then i would tell you like i tell everyone i can... if you have a suitable room, you really like movies or see a use for it, and you can afford it... you will be overjoyed!

well, rant over. nothing personal at all oriphus. just a little outpouring of my feelings here.

krlock2-

Mike,
You sure were told the wrong info. Panasonic professional projectors come with a 3 year warranty , which includes Panasonic's "Zip it" program, which is their overnight no cost replacement projector until yours is fixed.

For those interested, here is a link to what Mike is talking about. It took me a while to find it.

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/dealers.asp

There is no mention if the AE900 is one of the "eligible" models for the Zip it program. There is also no mention of how this program compares to the conventional factory warranty or the extended warranties of the past.

I think you can read it both ways.

OK, here's my take on the projector. I got it yesterday and set it up in my keeping room to watch some DVD's and some HD content when it got dark outside. I also hooked up my PS2 through component to be able to play some GT4 on it. I was projecting 100" from about 10ft away.

WOW! This thing rocks! It is my first projector, so I don't have a lot to compare to, but I will be taking a look at my friend's BenQ7700 soon.

I was just projecting to the wall in my keeping room which is a yellowish-biege, really light, and I was still amazed at the colors. I can't wait to shoot it at a white wall or a screen and adjust the colors with DVE to see what it can really do!

HD content I watched was some of Joey on NBC, CSI on CBS and Pirates of the Carribean on ABC. They all looked great, CSI being the best! It didn't look really hard for it, but I didn't see any VB, even on the really bright commercials.

DVD's I looked at were Sin City and From Dusk til Dawn. Sin City looked great and really dark, even without a proper screen. From Dusk til Dawn looked kinda grainy. I'll have to review more tonight. This time, it will include some movies from the Matrix series. :)

GT4 on PS2 looked good as well at 1080i. It definitely wasn't as sharp as HD content, but driving on Laguna Seca with that 100" screen was so cool! I think I'll keep it hooked up the projector in the theater when it's complete. My nephews will really love it.

So, overall, this one is a keeper and I'll post some pics when I get it up on a white wall or screen.

glad u like it kwp....

dont look for flaws, just enjoy it for the first siy months at least.... its a super thing, i agree.

krlock2

There's a new rebate form for those who bought an AE900 on 10/27 or later that not only gives you a $200 rebate, but also $300 in Blockbuster rentals. I don't know how that affects those who have aleady sent in the $200 rebate form, but that's a heck of a deal.

Here's (http://www.projectorpeople.com/SLIS/downloads/rebates/Panasonic/PANPT-AE900U_200-300Rebate.pdf) a link for the combined form.

There's a new rebate form for those who bought an AE900 on 10/27 or later that not only gives you a $200 rebate, but also $300 in Blockbuster rentals. I don't know how that affects those who have aleady sent in the $200 rebate form, but that's a heck of a deal.

I'm somewhat surprised by these. Why is panny giving all this ? The sales are not as good ... ? Are they expecting some other (better / lower priced) model ... ?

I'm somewhat surprised by these. Why is panny giving all this ? The sales are not as good ... ? Are they expecting some other (better / lower priced) model ... ?

They are doing the same thing in Canada by offering a free bulb for all dealer units that were purchased in the month of October. Maybe they are trying to insure they are the best selling projector for 2 years in a row. Or maybe they know something we don't.

I'm somewhat surprised by these. Why is panny giving all this ? The sales are not as good ... ? Are they expecting some other (better / lower priced) model ... ?


That was my first thought. Something must be happening come January????????

I think it's just a way to maximize holiday sales, which they may perceive as being soft this year. Plus, with current competition from Sanyo and soon-to-be from Epson and some new DLP models, they can get a jump on them.

How does the AE900 stack up against the new epson? I plan on buying a projector late November and am still deciding which one to get.

I think it's just a way to maximize holiday sales, which they may perceive as being soft this year. Plus, with current competition from Sanyo and soon-to-be from Epson and some new DLP models, they can get a jump on them.

I guess they overestimated the demand and have built up a large inventory that they want to get rid off within the current calendar year (esp if it the same as their fiscal year ?).

Anyway, good for us ...

From Panny's website:

"Current Offers for PT-AE900U

 Get up to $500 in cash and rentals.
Purchase a new Panasonic PT-AE900U Home Cinema Projector by December 31, 2005 and receive a $200.00 cash rebate and FREE Blockbuster Rental Card (up to $300.00 value).

Check back soon for full Terms and Conditions and to download your rebate claim form."


So looks like you have plenty of time. However, form is not available yet.

So looks like you have plenty of time. However, form is not available yet.

Not on the Panny website yet, but I have a link to it a few posts above.

hahahahaha this is like throwing salt in the wounds of us who purchased weeks eailer! It just keeps getting worse and worse. Next I will hear buy one AE900u and get the next free!

I did call my dealer (AVS sponsor) and was told that they will allow up to the previous week but not two. I guess my dealer doesn't have the pull like some of the others out there.

A sad Steve.

The next promo should be a free bulb, plus the $200, plus blockbuster. That will clinch it for me.

For thos curious about the deatils of the blockbuster card - it is 40 game or movie rentals. Unless those rentals are $7.50, you don't get quite $300 worth.
(I think movies are $5.25 including tax around here which is $210 - still not bad)

Just an FYI

Brian

Yeah, I saw that. Since it says it's worth up to $300, I wonder what stores have rentals at $7.50 apiece. :rolleyes:

We have got to figure out a way to collectively pressure Panasonic into treating us early buyers the way we should be. I'm going to have to go take a Rolaids at this rate!!!!

I've emailed my dealer on 3 occasions with no luck with any help.

:(

We have got to figure out a way to collectively pressure Panasonic into treating us early buyers the way we should be. I'm going to have to go take a Rolaids at this rate!!!!

I've emailed my dealer on 3 occasions with no luck with any help.

:(


I agree....the early bird definitly isn't getting the worm :mad:

Here is my take on this rebate thing.

I think it is designed to to take those who are sort of undecided or waiting for Z4 or upcoming Sony out of the market. I would think they have already figured competition is going to be tougher after Xmax so they come with a massive assault. Another thing they are aware of VB and didn't want to loose any momentum which can cause a long stagnation on their sales.

The next promo should be a free bulb, plus the $200, plus blockbuster. That will clinch it for me.


Ok...I will buy another one if Panasonic gives a free bulb, plus the $200, plus blockbuster, plus a microwave, plus 0% financing on any import car or truck. That would clinch it for me. Oh yea don‘t forget, free checking.

Can someone tell me in the service menu, what the "special" setup does over the normal?

Thanks,

Steve.

Rebates!

Let's see, First, there is the $200 rebate, why? Well first of all, consumers just love rebates. At least it seems to get people to go out and spend money. (Think of the millions of people who chase $1.50 mail in rebates on food!)

As to blockbuster, this rebate is more like those packages of rebates when you buy a computer - you know. Sign up for this and save $X amount... Not quite the same, but it's about perceived value. No doubt the $300 rebate costs Panasonic far, far less than $300, maybe half or less. So for those that rent, they see $300, and Panasonic spends a lot less.

However, in general, the word is that Panasonic US, is supposed to drastically increase their HT sales over the next with the 900u, compared with the old 700u sales levels, and I'm sure they are feeling huge pressure from plasma displays, - especially their own, since they claim to be #1 there. A year ago, a really good price on a 50" plasma was $5K. Today, its just under $3000...

Anyway, doesn't matter. Prices will always fall on projectors, traditionally you can see price erosion on most models at least every 60 days, be it lower prices, free ceiling mounts, free lamps, or rebates. If you want to make sure you get the best price on a piece of technology, don't buy technology. What fun!

Greetings,

Just a heads up for those of you still on the fence, as to which to buy. I received my Z4 eval unit yesterday, and am working on the review. Spent time this afternoon shooting DVD and Hi-Def source photos with the Panny 900u and the Z4 projecting side by side.

I'll try to have the preliminary review up on my site late Sunday nite, but it will be a work in progress and take about a week, and by that time, maybe the Epson 550 will arrive for review.

But, here's a tidbit or two, between the Z4 and the Panny. Some of these thoughts you have heard from others.
1. The Z4 does appear slightly sharper on many things, although you can use the sharpness control on the Panny, but Sanyo seems to have the edge here.
2. Shadow detail, black levels, so far, all Panasonic. Not big differences, but I played with Panny's Cinema 1,2, and 3 settings and the Z4's Creative Cinema and Pure Cinema modes. Panasonic wins.
3. Highlights - took some images of both, where the Panny has more shadow detail, and is not losing highlight detail in the same scene. The Sanyo is losing at both ends.
4. Vertical banding. Detectable on both projectors, more noticeable on the Sanyo, but neither projector had what I would call a problem with VB - unless you are looking at a perfectly gray area with no detail or noise (like a background screen). I figure if you have to stand 2 feet from the screen to find some VB - who cares. Of course this may vary from projector to projector.
5. Pixelization. Slam dunk, the Panny LCD panels have almost invisible pixels. -comparable to DLP, anyway. Personally, I think this is one of the most significant differences between the projectors. I like to sit pretty close and the pixels on the Z4 would drive me crazy.
6. Color - edge to Panasonic. If you do a really good calibration I figure it will probably be a tie, but 99% of owners will plug in and go, and that gives the Panny the edge. Oh yeah - I like to talk about "sunny days". Shots on sunny days (like sunlight hitting a face, definitely look "sunnier" on the Panny.

Lastly - Perspective. These two projectors are so close overall, that any number of other differences may be your deciding factor. If you were looking for perfection (100%) you might say one is an 88 and the other a 90. Not a 72 and a 94. -art

So, drop by my site late Sunday and hopefully I'll have plenty for you.

Art,

Can you give me your impression of the dynamic iris' between the Z4 and the 900? From what I have read thus far, the Z4's iris seems a bit wild in comparison to the 900. If the two are as close as you say they are, I can save a significant amount of money buy purchasing the Z4 or the Hitatchi vs. the Panasonic.

I keep seeing reviews saying that the Z4 is sharper than the 900. Can some of this difference be perceived sharpness because of the clearer pixel grid on the Z4?
Art?

Greetings,

Just a heads up for those of you still on the fence, as to which to buy. I received my Z4 eval unit yesterday, and am working on the review. Spent time this afternoon shooting DVD and Hi-Def source photos with the Panny 900u and the Z4 projecting side by side.

I'll try to have the preliminary review up on my site late Sunday nite, but it will be a work in progress and take about a week, and by that time, maybe the Epson 550 will arrive for review.

But, here's a tidbit or two, between the Z4 and the Panny. Some of these thoughts you have heard from others.
1. The Z4 does appear slightly sharper on many things, although you can use the sharpness control on the Panny, but Sanyo seems to have the edge here.
2. Shadow detail, black levels, so far, all Panasonic. Not big differences, but I played with Panny's Cinema 1,2, and 3 settings and the Z4's Creative Cinema and Pure Cinema modes. Panasonic wins.
3. Highlights - took some images of both, where the Panny has more shadow detail, and is not losing highlight detail in the same scene. The Sanyo is losing at both ends.
4. Vertical banding. Detectable on both projectors, more noticeable on the Sanyo, but neither projector had what I would call a problem with VB - unless you are looking at a perfectly gray area with no detail or noise (like a background screen). I figure if you have to stand 2 feet from the screen to find some VB - who cares. Of course this may vary from projector to projector.
5. Pixelization. Slam dunk, the Panny LCD panels have almost invisible pixels. -comparable to DLP, anyway. Personally, I think this is one of the most significant differences between the projectors. I like to sit pretty close and the pixels on the Z4 would drive me crazy.
6. Color - edge to Panasonic. If you do a really good calibration I figure it will probably be a tie, but 99% of owners will plug in and go, and that gives the Panny the edge. Oh yeah - I like to talk about "sunny days". Shots on sunny days (like sunlight hitting a face, definitely look "sunnier" on the Panny.

Lastly - Perspective. These two projectors are so close overall, that any number of other differences may be your deciding factor. If you were looking for perfection (100%) you might say one is an 88 and the other a 90. Not a 72 and a 94. -art

So, drop by my site late Sunday and hopefully I'll have plenty for you.

Art,

Is the difference small enough that once you had either one home and up and running that you would soon forget about the slight advantage one has over another? In many enthusiast hobbies, differences are only apparent when one can go back to back in very short order. I kind of hope PJ's are the same.

Also, are black levels satisfying? I insist that any LCD I buy be noticeably better than my X1 at black levels and hopefully at least as good as an H31 or 4805.

Greg

I spent about an hour at a local dealer couple days ago and I must say, I wasn't thrilled with the 900. However, I suspect there is something wrong with their setup. They must be running it thru a zillion switchers or using miles of crap cables. I brought in several DVDs (Bad Boys II superbit, Seven, Gattaca, Rushmore). The picture looked low rez, like some cheap jpeg. Being new to PJs, I thought it's just the way DVDs look when blown up to 92"diag. I spent the whole time fiddling with the menu and picture adjustments and still wasn't happy. No screen door though....very impressive.

The menu text looked like it had convergence problems. I thought digital projectors didn't have this problem. You can see the white letters/line broken up into R, G, B when you get within 4ft. I adjusted the keystone and manually focused but no deal. Can somebody tell me what maybe be wrong?

Then today I spent at another store about 1/2hr with an uncalibrated BenQ 7700. I touched the remote for a total of about two minutes. Otherwise, I was simply enjoying the picture. DVDs were clean and 720P material was GASP!!!! Awesome! Like looking at a 92" Trinitron! Black levels were strong and shadow details on Episode III reminds me of my RPTV. It was fed by a single DVI cable from a Samsung DVD player. But I see rainbows :(

The Panny can't be that bad. I'm gonna go back sometime and ask them to hook up a DVD player directly.

Art, I agree totally with your comments about technology and prices. I understand why it happens. My beef, and I think most of us would agree, is that the rebates came in the first month of introduction, and that leaves (probably) Panasonics most loyal customers, with a bad taste in there mouths. Had this happened after a few months of being on the market, I would have no hard feelings.

I think the policy could/should be to grandfather, for a 30 day period, these various incentives to people that make the effort to call in.

Sorry...I know this thread is to be about the projector. :) Which, by the way, I'm enjoying very much. We're having about 10 people over tonight for "Revenge of the Sith"!!!

I spent about an hour at a local dealer couple days ago and I must say, I wasn't thrilled with the 900. However, I suspect there is something wrong with their setup. They must be running it thru a zillion switchers or using miles of crap cables. I brought in several DVDs (Bad Boys II superbit, Seven, Gattaca, Rushmore). The picture looked low rez, like some cheap jpeg. Being new to PJs, I thought it's just the way DVDs look when blown up to 92"diag. I spent the whole time fiddling with the menu and picture adjustments and still wasn't happy. No screen door though....very impressive.

The menu text looked like it had convergence problems. I thought digital projectors didn't have this problem. You can see the white letters/line broken up into R, G, B when you get within 4ft. I adjusted the keystone and manually focused but no deal. Can somebody tell me what maybe be wrong?

The Panny can't be that bad. I'm gonna go back sometime and ask them to hook up a DVD player directly.

There has been quite a bit written with reviews and observations on this unit within this thread that would answer some of your questions. Two that come to mind are the flat picture and convergence. The flat PQ is most llikely the panny being fed a 480P signal. Contrary to what some have heard, the panny does not do a superior job on upconversion. I would trust a respected player like a Pioneer 59avi or a Isan HD scaler to produce a terrific pic (I'm using an Iscan and the image rocks). On the convergence issue, it has been reported in this thread that using the hor/vert joystick adjustment to one of it's limits can push convergence off and would be noticable on the menuu.

Those are two of your observations (that come to mind) that have been addressed in earlier posts in this thread.

Ron

PS: I also think a comparison has been done between the 7700 and the Panny either within this thread or another thread...the search engine should produce the information. (you can also search within a thread...like this long master thread).

5. Pixelization. Slam dunk, the Panny LCD panels have almost invisible pixels. -comparable to DLP, anyway. Personally, I think this is one of the most significant differences between the projectors. I like to sit pretty close and the pixels on the Z4 would drive me crazy.
What is "pretty close" for you? Can you confirm your screen size and seating distance? With your experience at what point do the pixels on the Z4 disappear? I've been seeing 1.3-1.5x pretty consistently in reviews. This is really my only concern with this projector. You hit the nail on the head that with performance overall being so close that there will be other factors that may sway one's decision - for me it's the vertical lens shift on the Z4.

You also mention VB on both units but nothing of the Z4's ability to adjust for it - presumably this will be addressed in more detail on your formal review?

Also, are black levels satisfying? I insist that any LCD I buy be noticeably better than my X1 at black levels and hopefully at least as good as an H31 or 4805.

I'd also like to know this regarding the AE900/4805. I'm looking to get a bigger picture that'll be smooth at ~1.4x width for a 2.35:1 screen. I'd like to improve color saturation, also, while at least matching contrast/blacks and color accuracy.

I spent about an hour at a local dealer couple days ago and I must say, I wasn't thrilled with the 900. However, I suspect there is something wrong with their setup. They must be running it thru a zillion switchers or using miles of crap cables. I brought in several DVDs (Bad Boys II superbit, Seven, Gattaca, Rushmore). The picture looked low rez, like some cheap jpeg. Being new to PJs, I thought it's just the way DVDs look when blown up to 92"diag. I spent the whole time fiddling with the menu and picture adjustments and still wasn't happy. No screen door though....very impressive.

The menu text looked like it had convergence problems. I thought digital projectors didn't have this problem. You can see the white letters/line broken up into R, G, B when you get within 4ft. I adjusted the keystone and manually focused but no deal. Can somebody tell me what maybe be wrong?

Then today I spent at another store about 1/2hr with an uncalibrated BenQ 7700. I touched the remote for a total of about two minutes. Otherwise, I was simply enjoying the picture. DVDs were clean and 720P material was GASP!!!! Awesome! Like looking at a 92" Trinitron! Black levels were strong and shadow details on Episode III reminds me of my RPTV. It was fed by a single DVI cable from a Samsung DVD player. But I see rainbows :(

The Panny can't be that bad. I'm gonna go back sometime and ask them to hook up a DVD player directly.

I wouldn't be surprised if like you say, it might have been badly setup. Probably even on purpose and aggravated, so that they may sell you the more expensive projectors. I have seen that done before with some other products.
Maybe you could also bring in a notebook with DVI output (and HDMI adapter) and play some DVDs (and maybe some WMVs if it's fast enough). VGA could do too.

STOP! This is not a deals forum!

I spent about an hour at a local dealer couple days ago and I must say, I wasn't thrilled with the 900. However, I suspect there is something wrong with their setup. They must be running it thru a zillion switchers or using miles of crap cables. I brought in several DVDs (Bad Boys II superbit, Seven, Gattaca, Rushmore). The picture looked low rez, like some cheap jpeg. Being new to PJs, I thought it's just the way DVDs look when blown up to 92"diag. I spent the whole time fiddling with the menu and picture adjustments and still wasn't happy. No screen door though....very impressive.

The menu text looked like it had convergence problems. I thought digital projectors didn't have this problem. You can see the white letters/line broken up into R, G, B when you get within 4ft. I adjusted the keystone and manually focused but no deal. Can somebody tell me what maybe be wrong?

Then today I spent at another store about 1/2hr with an uncalibrated BenQ 7700. I touched the remote for a total of about two minutes. Otherwise, I was simply enjoying the picture. DVDs were clean and 720P material was GASP!!!! Awesome! Like looking at a 92" Trinitron! Black levels were strong and shadow details on Episode III reminds me of my RPTV. It was fed by a single DVI cable from a Samsung DVD player. But I see rainbows :(

The Panny can't be that bad. I'm gonna go back sometime and ask them to hook up a DVD player directly.


If you were auditioning the 900 at Advance, then I suspect you are correct in thinking the zillions of switchers and miles of crappy cable is effecting the picture quality (because they do have at least a zillion switchers!)..... I would do as others have suggested and take a laptop and feed it an HD and DVD sample and see how it looks then.

Stop the deals/pricing posts now. Last warning.

Also, are black levels satisfying? I insist that any LCD I buy be noticeably better than my X1 at black levels and hopefully at least as good as an H31 or 4805.

Greg
I want to know this too.

1. Is there some kind of translation guide for the Japanese model's OSD?

2. can the japanese models take a US firmware?

Does anyone know if the AE700 uses the same bulb as the AE900? I am trying to decide between purchasing either the Z4 or the AE900, and I read on another AVS thread ("AE700 lamp--STILL no one has these in stock? its been weeks "), that the bulbs for the AE700 are on severe backorder. If premature bulb failure is indeed a problem with the AE700 (and if the AE900 uses the same bulb), that would tip the scales in favour of the Z4 for me.

1. Is there some kind of translation guide for the Japanese model's OSD?

2. can the japanese models take a US firmware?
I don't know if the english manual is available somewhere, I found the manual for the AE700 on the UK Panasonic site but not the AE900 one (the AE700 manual is not even on the US site !) :
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/customer-Support/download-centre.asp?did=134154&fmt=pdf

I suspect that the firmware is upgradeable with the serial port. It would be really nice if Panasonic provides the software to do so when future firmwares become available, but I kinda doubt it.
Otherwise, the protocol will have to figured out.
Anyway, I wouldn't count on that yet.

The AE900 lamp is a different model number than the AE700's, so they may not be interchangeable. As has been discussed previously on this thread, the AE700 manual is almost identical to the AE900's. You can download the AE700 manual from the Panasonic website, but you have to go to the "Business and Professional" section. I would expect the menu commands are in the same locations for both the Japanese and U.S. models.

Hi im looking to upgrade my projector somtime in the beginning of the year i currently have an Optoma EP719 which isnt really a HT projector. Im looking at either the ae900 or the hs51 im sure either would be an amazing difference in my projector but i can find lots of reviews on these projectors but nothing really compareing them much. Which one really has better contrast and vb sd all that which one is better has anyone seen both of these? also which would you guys recommend is it really worth it to spend the little more for the hs51 or should i stick with the ae900 i'll be projecting roughly a 100" image for info lol the room is complete light controled and nice and dark.

I don't know if the english manual is available somewhere, I found the manual for the AE700 on the UK Panasonic site but not the AE900 one (the AE700 manual is not even on the US site !) :
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/customer-Support/download-centre.asp?did=134154&fmt=pdf

I discovered some guy auctioning japanese AE900's claims to include a PDF of the manual. So it does exist, but maybe it is not commonplace.

The AE900 lamp is a different model number than the AE700's, so they may not be interchangeable. As has been discussed previously on this thread, the AE700 manual is almost identical to the AE900's. You can download the AE700 manual from the Panasonic website, but you have to go to the "Business and Professional" section. I would expect the menu commands are in the same locations for both the Japanese and U.S. models.

I still can only find the manuals for the AE100 and AE500 on the US site.
So I went looking around the world a bit more and I actually found the AE900 in english on the Canada Panasonic site :-)
Here it is : http://www.panasonic.ca/PDP/OperatingInstructions/ptae900u-oi-eng.pdf

Cool, pages 66-68 of the manual give the discrete commands that can be used with the serial port (there are likely other, undocumented, ones)

If you were auditioning the 900 at Advance,

hey! another Winnipegger! Cool!

Yes, I was at that dreaded store. I could say a lot worse things about them but I'll be civil here. Now that I think about it, if a major retail outlet that tries to be upscale can't get their s*** together to setup a winner of a PJ that the Panny is reported to be, then they don't deserve my biz.

I still can only find the manuals for the AE100 and AE500 on the US site.

You're not on the "Business and Professional" website. The 700 and 900 are considered part of the "Professional" lineup. Here's (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=R&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=72987&catGroupId=21360&modelNo=PT-AE700U&surfModel=PT-AE700U) the page, just click on "Operating Instructions".

Stop the deals/pricing posts now. Last warning.

If MSRP can be discussed, why are manufacturers' rebates not allowed? I'd understand if a was a store specific rebate, but it appears to be from Panasonic and available everywhere.

Brian

If MSRP can be discussed, why are manufacturers' rebates not allowed? I'd understand if a was a store specific rebate, but it appears to be from Panasonic and available everywhere.

Brian

If I remember the info, it was talking about Japanese street prices or refering to the cheaper market etc. Madpoet has not said anything about the rebate discussion, which had gone on previous to that post.

Since it's hard to determine tone of posts, I assume you weren't being confrontational to the mod's request. ....cause the bottomline, we are all guests on this site. House rules apply, no debate needed.

Ron

Cool re: the serial commands....They look very much like the serial commands/structure for my panasonic plasma display (big suprise). IMHO, serial control is definately the way to go if you can swing it. IR is great, but serial is so much more flexible.

Does anyone have a source for the DIN 8-pin -> DB9 cable? It wouldnt' be hard to build one, but buy is always good too :p

It looks like I'll be getting my AE900 very soon....been sittin on the fence re: the 900, Z4, and HC3000.....a good friend of mine got a chance to play around with an AE900 a week ago (hes a dlp guy, has a sp7200) and he was very impressed. His previous LCD experience was with X1, Z1, AE300 and some presentation projectors, so the new LCD tech in his opinion has come a very long way.

Anyway,

Rich

No, not confrontational, just seeking a clarification. I wasn't sure if manaufactures rebates are OK to mention or not.

Brian

Cool re: the serial commands....They look very much like the serial commands/structure for my panasonic plasma display (big suprise). IMHO, serial control is definately the way to go if you can swing it. IR is great, but serial is so much more flexible.

Does anyone have a source for the DIN 8-pin -> DB9 cable? It wouldnt' be hard to build one, but buy is always good too :p

It looks like I'll be getting my AE900 very soon....been sittin on the fence re: the 900, Z4, and HC3000.....a good friend of mine got a chance to play around with an AE900 a week ago (hes a dlp guy, has a sp7200) and he was very impressed. His previous LCD experience was with X1, Z1, AE300 and some presentation projectors, so the new LCD tech in his opinion has come a very long way.

Anyway,

Rich

The serial adapter (ET-ADSER) is listed as an accessory on the Panasonic site, but is not available from their parts site yet. It's listed at $45 which is a bit high for a little adapter. I'd like to hear too if someone finds a similar one somewhere else.

Does the AE700 have IR discrete codes, speciallly "power on" and "power off" ? Or even for the AE900 if someone got time to look for them. My soon to be retired AE100 doesn't have any useful ones and I wonder if Panasonic has done something about that since (it costs nothing to add discrete codes and they are so useful for macros)

Tomorrow will arrive my new AE900!
But I don't know which DVD to buy...I'm posting here because I want the best projector image, not the best DVD player.
The candidates are:
1. Marantz DV6600 359€
2. Denon 1920 348€
3. Panasonic S97 325€

All HDMI connected at 720p

Maybe someone can help me - this is my second projector, I had a replacement after my first had a green dimly lit pixel.

I am running this unit from the DVI to the HDMI with a new DVI -> HDMI cable, which is supported via the specs, and when I run the screen at 60hz (the recommended) the picture moves across the screen say about 10-20 pixels, the effect is that when you are running a window maximised the 'X' to close the window and everything below it is cut off on the right hand side of the screen. You can see that the picture has not been resised, and on the left hand side you can see a similar area where the projector is projecting and there is no picture.

If I choose another refresh rate apart from 60hz (50,70,75,100,120) the screen corrects itself and fits exactly to the projection. The problem is at these refresh rates for some reason the image flickers, which is quite distracting. The picture returns to solid immediately when returning to 60hz but the picture moves off again. I am running from a 7800GTX, with latest drivers and have the same problem with older drivers.

This problem with the picture moving off occured with my previous unit in exactly the same fashion, but I don't recall the flickering at refresh rates other than 60hz.

Thanks in advance!

Tomorrow will arrive my new AE900!
But I don't know which DVD to buy...I'm posting here because I want the best projector image, not the best DVD player.
The candidates are:
1. Marantz DV6600 359€
2. Denon 1920 348€
3. Panasonic S97 325€

All HDMI connected at 720p

I've got the Marantz DV7600 and im very very pleased with it. The 216MHz Video processor is amazing in 12bit, images via the HDMI is top notch. I don't know much about the other two on your list, but i know that although the DV6600 doesnt come close to the DV7600, it still produces a fantastic image and is great value with the HDMI.

If you can stretch it, I really recommend the DV7600

Chris

I was really interested in the dv7600, but when I saw HDMI 1.0... I prefer 1.1

The serial adapter (ET-ADSER) is listed as an accessory on the Panasonic site, but is not available from their parts site yet. It's listed at $45 which is a bit high for a little adapter. I'd like to hear too if someone finds a similar one somewhere else.


Yikes! $45 for a silly cable? I'll poke around and see if I can find one elsewhere, or build one myself. 8pin mini-din connectors are easy to find, as are db9's.

Rich

Regarding the Rebate(s):

I'm confused.

First, there was the $200 off rebate that was good from October 26th to December 31st.

Now, there's another rebate which gives you the $200 off plus the free Blockbuster rentals.

However, the second rebate is good from October 27th to December 31st. What gives?

Does this mean if you bought your 900 on October 26th, you're only eligible for $200 rebate?

Jimmy

Greetings all,

For those still deciding on which projector to buy, my preliminary Z4 projector review is now posted. It's still missing a few images (like the remote control, and menu shots), and I'm sure, in the rush that there are typos and some grammer issues, but, the content is almost all there.

I will continue to polish it, and also have a Z4 vs 900u comparison review up over the course of this week.

Hope you find it useful. (I'm saving my opinion as to which one I prefer - for the comparison article). BTW, I'm putting the same posting on the Panasonic AE900u thread. -art

Maybe someone can help me - this is my second projector, I had a replacement after my first had a green dimly lit pixel.

I am running this unit from the DVI to the HDMI with a new DVI -> HDMI cable, which is supported via the specs, and when I run the screen at 60hz (the recommended) the picture moves across the screen say about 10-20 pixels, the effect is that when you are running a window maximised the 'X' to close the window and everything below it is cut off on the right hand side of the screen. You can see that the picture has not been resised, and on the left hand side you can see a similar area where the projector is projecting and there is no picture.

If I choose another refresh rate apart from 60hz (50,70,75,100,120) the screen corrects itself and fits exactly to the projection. The problem is at these refresh rates for some reason the image flickers, which is quite distracting. The picture returns to solid immediately when returning to 60hz but the picture moves off again. I am running from a 7800GTX, with latest drivers and have the same problem with older drivers.

This problem with the picture moving off occured with my previous unit in exactly the same fashion, but I don't recall the flickering at refresh rates other than 60hz.

Thanks in advance!

If you look in the manual on page 41 where it explains the Position menu you will see a picture of the Position OSD when a PC signal is being input. Down the bottom is an option called 'Auto Setup'. I had the same problem when I connected my PC over VGA. Ran auto setup and the problem was corrected.

I just found the English Manual posted on the Australian site. If this has been posted before I apologize since I just returned from a trip. I did do a search and did not find it posted. The Australian version has the addition of a SCART connector.

AE 900 User Manual English:

http://panasonic.com.au/content/library/files/F001571.pdf

I will continue to polish it, and also have a Z4 vs 900u comparison review up over the course of this week.

Cool.
Just an idea, Art: I suspect that more than a few are considering these as a potential upgrade from 480p (and might have been waiting on 720p DLP), and that many of those are 4805 owners. Since you'd reviewed all three, a paragraph or two on what improvements/compromises a 4805-er might expect would be appreciated.

If you are a previous owner of the ae-700 I’m curious if you recall noticing significant Blur from this pj? Maybe you have heard about the blurr affect. I purchased this pj based on the similarities between it and the 900 and the reduced price I got. I also got a first hand private demo from an authorized dealer. At the demo, I did not notice a blur, but after putting over 30hrs on the pj I can say with certainty that my 700 has a distinctive blur. 720p is not as bad as 1080i, but then I still have VB and watching the NASCAR race yesterday was badddddd.

I use to have the Infocus 4805 and it did a much better job on NASCAR racing. However, on 720p football games on FOX the 700 does a better job on focus, but the blur is still noticeable. I’ve tried several different cables and configurations, but I still have the blur. If you are confused with what I’m talking about think of it this way. Imagine holding the focus ring and constantly changing the focus every time a seen changes. It drives me nuts. My 700 never seems to be happy with the focus level it is putting out. I’m not like you guys fully knowledgeable about PJ lingo so I hope I’m giving you the idea.

Have you seen this on the panny 900?

Maybe I just have a lemon.

Thanks for the comments and ideas.

Greg

Hi guys !
Sorry for eventually crossposting here with the VB-Thread ...

Could you please name a few Movie-DVD´s with which I can easily check, if the Panny 900 I´m going to watch at my local dealer on friday has VB ???

Thanx in advance for your answers,

prickelpit

The fog scenes in Master and Commander are a torture test for Lcd projectors, both for vertical banding and fixed-pattern noise.

Regarding the VB on my 900 - initially I could see it if I really tried, but it wasn't objectionable at all. Then I did the flicker adjustment, mostly on the green panel, and that seems to all but eliminate the VB for me. Certainly it would never bother me while watching a movie.

Other impressions -

The blacks on the 900 kick butt compared to my old Z-1.

HD source material looks great.

1:1 mapping, no overscan, easy to set up.

Just wish it had an Auto-Off feature like the Sanyo.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the 900.

DE

Prickelpit,

Blacks: Batman Begins, Matrix
Macrobloquing and rich colors: Star Wars 2 and 3
VB: the sky of The Lord of the Rings, Whites of The Day after Tomorrow, Fog from Batman Begins, Blues from Lost.
Sharpness: HD material (CSI for example)

Quick question.. when connecting the 900 to computer and using a VGA cable. I of course assume the best resolution to use for your graphics card is 1280x720. But what refresh rate is ideal for the 900?

I have the same concern about blurring. I have never owned a projector and have been eagerly awaiting all the reviews on the Z4 and AE900. I have a 26" Syntax LCD and I always seem to see a blurring or "stuttering" of the fast moving objects. Is this inherent to LCD? I hate to spend the extra money to get an H78DC3 but if this is a problem that is unavoidable on an LCD, watching sports could be problematical.

Are we not supposed to discuss the rebates?

Has anyone of you guys tried the "Cinema Reality" mode for 24 fps? Good or bad?

Are we not supposed to discuss the rebates?


Yes, we can. The problem is if you start talking about specific retailers and street prices or allude to them....like "under X grand from ABC exporter." If I am wrong please someone correct me.


Ron

gdemery,
My brother just bought a 700 and he also has just over 30 hours on it. He has no VB or blurring so you might have a bad pj, unless it's your signal. He has his connected to the Comcast HD DVR box.

I have the same concern about blurring. I have never owned a projector and have been eagerly awaiting all the reviews on the Z4 and AE900. I have a 26" Syntax LCD and I always seem to see a blurring or "stuttering" of the fast moving objects. Is this inherent to LCD? I hate to spend the extra money to get an H78DC3 but if this is a problem that is unavoidable on an LCD, watching sports could be problematical.

Greetings,

First, LCD monitors (like your 26") are a different LCD technology than the poly-si panels in PJs. But the issues are the same. Over the last few years the response time of LCD panels has continued to get faster. The panels in the latest HT PJs should be plenty fast enough to avoid any blurring issues.

And conversely, on fast moving objects on the screen, a single chip DLP can have some of its own aberations. Neither, however should be noticeable except on extreme scenes.

The compelling reason for the H78DC3 over the Panny will be true black levels and shadow detail. All that fancy processing still can't alter the laws of physics. When you do a side by side of either LCD vs the H78dc3 or other dark chip 3 projector you will immediately notice that the blacks are MUCH blacker, on the DLP.

In this regard the difference between $2K LCD's and $3500+ DLP's is much as it was a year ago. But both now produce better blacks, but there is still a substantial difference. -art

Yes, we can. The problem is if you start talking about specific retailers and street prices or allude to them....like "under X grand from ABC exporter." If I am wrong please someone correct me.


Ron

I felt like my hand got slapped. I wasn't discussing specific retailers or street prices (I did mention the amount of the rebate, but in my opinion that is a manufacturer price, much like MSRP). I believe that this rebate discussion is an important part of the projector and very much on topic. It is equal in importance to any of the tech discussions.

I feel like I understand the street price issue, but don't understand this. :confused:

If you look in the manual on page 41 where it explains the Position menu you will see a picture of the Position OSD when a PC signal is being input. Down the bottom is an option called 'Auto Setup'. I had the same problem when I connected my PC over VGA. Ran auto setup and the problem was corrected.

Aha! Fantastic, thanks in advance - I'll try this tonight!

Edit: Just noticed from the manual attatched that the HDMI connection does not have that option... Perhaps I'll try the adjustment for horizontal.

Edit2: The horizintal adjustment fixed it! (lol) Thanks for the help ;)

Here is the latest news regarding the rebate issue I raised earlier. I spoke with Customer Service at an online retailer who is also a Forum Sponsor.

Apparently Panasonic will not budge on the dates.

If you purchased the Panasonic 900 before October 26th, you are not eligible for any rebates.

If you purchase the 900 on October 26th, you are eligible for the $200 rebate, but not the free Blockbuster Rentals.

If you purchased your 900 on October 27th or later, you are eligible for both the cash rebate and Blockbuster rentals.

Just by luck, I purchased my 900 on October 26th which enables me to get the cash rebate, but not the free Blockbuster rentals.

Do you guys think that if we email or call Panasonic Customer Service and bring up this issue that we might have some pull if we have several people call or complain? Just a thought.

I know if I purchased this unit on October 25th, I'd be really upset.

I bought a brand new Nissan Altama last year with a 1500.00 rebate. A week later the rebate was 2500.00. That's just the way it is. I don't think it was mean or low, or anything else Panasonic did that was bad. It's business. If you people as early adopters think you were screwed by Panasonic in some way, you should find a hobby where prices never change. Good luck.

Any gotten completely through a calibration to give us post-calibration lumens?

Any gotten completely through a calibration to give us post-calibration lumens?

Check out the Tweaks Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589234). Basically, it's around 300.

Check out the Tweaks Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589234). Basically, it's around 300.
Eeek!

what's the formula for foot lamberts again?

I searched for 20 minutes and could not find it.

OK, couple of fast (I hope) questions.

Sometime tonight I stumbled upon something using the remote that allowed me to take a fast screen grab, I think it was called the cursor function, it seemed to have a kind of crosshair in it tho. Is there a way to permanently hold this screen cap in memory like as a start up screen or behind the menus desktop?

When I pull up the menu button, EVERYTHING says 1080i 60i mode. My SA8300HD is in 'passthrough' mode, it should be giving 720P from ABC I thought, and my Xbox console looks like absolute crap, the text on screen for games like The Warriors (which supports 720p) is very blurry. I turned on 1080i output on the Xbox, but I am unsure how to know just what the hell it really is outputting. Even tho this PJ will downconvert 1080i to 720p, should I go into dashboard and reset it to have 1080i at 'no'?

Sam

Quick question.. when connecting the 900 to computer and using a VGA cable. I of course assume the best resolution to use for your graphics card is 1280x720. But what refresh rate is ideal for the 900?

Read page 64 of the manual. The WIDE720 mode needs a vertical refresh rate of 60.1 HZ.

speaking of XBOX - i have a Playstation 2 and would love to connect it to the projector - but i recon some sayings that games, having static parts of the screen, can cause LCD panels burning - isn't this so?

Kadath - Warriors looks good on my 900, I have 1080i set to no. When I bring up the projector menu while playing the game it says 720p. I have my satelite receiver set to 720p.

Give it a try.

Cgl and Kadath (or anyone else) - Do the LCD panels on the AE900 respond fast enough for playing games. Do you notice any trails or streaks? I think this is the PJ I'm going to get, but I want to make sure the xbox 360 (and PC games) will look good on it. :-)

speaking of XBOX - i have a Playstation 2 and would love to connect it to the projector - but i recon some sayings that games, having static parts of the screen, can cause LCD panels burning - isn't this so?

No.
LCD's do not suffer burn in.

ted

No.
LCD's do not suffer burn in.

ted

No, but the 3 LCD panels are subjected to intense heat from the bulb that gradually degrades the panels.

Cgl and Kadath (or anyone else) - Do the LCD panels on the AE900 respond fast enough for playing games. Do you notice any trails or streaks? I think this is the PJ I'm going to get, but I want to make sure the xbox 360 (and PC games) will look good on it. :-)

Although I won't get my AE900 until tomorrow, I think it's safe to assume that the answer is no. Neither AE100, AE200 (owned for three years), AE500 or AE700 (tried at friend's place) had any trouble with response times. The chance of it being different with their newest and most advanced model is non-existent.

Besides, ultra-low response times are the norm with projectors (unlike monitors/HDTVs).

Well, after much anguish, I just pulled the trigger on an AE900. Why the anguish? Because I've always been a DLP owner (Infocus 4800, Mitsubishi HC900U) and I just can't get my head around the possibility that I'll be happy with an LCD. :eek: However, I need a projector that will handle a 1:1 pixel mapping from an HTPC via DVI (my HC900 doesn't do this so well) and I also want a projector with a very long throw distance so that I can mount it behind the back wall of my dedicated Theater Room and eliminate fan noise entirely. The AE900 is one of the few projectors that meets both those requirements. I did find a few newer DLP models that also met those requirements, however, they were roughly 3 to 4 times more expensive than the Pany AE900 and in the end, I couldn't justify the extra expense.

Hopefully the AE900 will live up to all the hype. Given my DLP background, I'm honestly not expecting to be blown away by this projector (I want to believe the reviews, but I'm skeptical). Still, as long as it meets the needs I listed above, and can compete favorably with my Mitsubishi HC900 in terms of overall picture quality, I'll be happy. If it exceeds my expectations, all the better. :)

I'll post my impressions this weekend after I've had a chance to compare it head to head with the Mitsubishi HC900.

Thanks.

--
Bryce

I'll post my impressions this weekend after I've had a chance to compare it head to head with the Mitsubishi HC900.

Please do. I'm looking to upgrade from a 4805 for the reasons you mention in addition to better saturation and a bigger image. I don't want to take a step back in any area of PQ, of course.

For those of you that have celing mounted the AE900, did you have a problem with having to use "too much" of the vertical shift causing negative effects on the image? I'm a little concerned about using most of the lens shift when I ceiling mount it (because I don't want to drop the PJ down from the ceiling very much). I might be forced to table mount it (which I don't want to do), or go with the Sanyo Z4 due to it's better lens shift. However, I think I'd rather stick with the AE900 since (after seeing them this weekend) the AE900 has virtually no screen door, where the Z4 seemed to start showing SDE at about 1.3 the screen width. Out of the box color seemed a lot better on the AE900 also...

First time poster :) This board has been invaluable to me, and I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time to make this site such a wealth of information.

I'm about to pull the trigger on an AE900, my first FP. I've already ordered an Oppo DVD and a Panasonic xr55 receiver. Currently, my best set is a SD 27", which results in a pretty small image when watching widescreen. So, needless to say, I'm really looking forward to the FP experience. I've just finished a dedicated HT space in my basement, 20' x 20', light controlled, dark walls, etc. etc.

My question is about running an HDMI cable from the Oppo (or a switch, in the future) to the projector. Is 50' too far? 50' would allow me to run the video cable along some lowered crown molding (used for rope lighting) to the front of my room and would be perfect. 33' (10 meters) wouldn't be enough.

I've scoured the forums, and there are some vague opinions about whether that is too far, and vague recommendations to buy "good" cables. I'm aware that HDMI is digital, so it's pretty much all or nothing. Ultimately, I think it depends on your source and receiver. I think it's a pretty good bet that the Oppo will be a good source. Have to wait and see about my cable provider.

Does anyone have any experience running 50' of HDMI to an AE900? I've seen a number of posts indicating no problems with 25', but lengths greater than 25' can't be that rare. Thanks.

Well, after much anguish, I just pulled the trigger on an AE900. Why the anguish? Because I've always been a DLP owner (Infocus 4800, Mitsubishi HC900U) and I just can't get my head around the possibility that I'll be happy with an LCD.

I know what you're going through. After having nothing but DLPs in house, I was pretty skeptical about the AE900. However, I've compared it to two other 720p DLP projectors using a DC2 chip (Toshiba MT700) and a DC3 chip (InFocus SP7210). While the 7210 had noticeably better blacks and contrast, I'd say that the AE900 is the equal of a DC2 chip DLP like the Toshiba. Colors are brighter with the AE900 (a bit oversaturated actually, but that can be adjusted with its CCM function) and you don't get any of the DLP-type artifacts. However, some units do have their own LCD-related issues (VB and FPN), so there's some trade off there. Bottom line is that for the price (especially with the current rebates), it's a heck of a buy.

[QUOTE=alan2005]For those of you that have ceiling mounted the AE900, did you have a problem with having to use "too much" of the vertical shift causing negative effects on the image? QUOTE]

I vertically shift to the max. To my eyes, it doesn't affect the image quality one bit. The way I understand lens shift is it shifts the lens to a new position the same way as lower the PJ (from the ceiling) without physically move the PJ thus doesn't change keystones nor picture quality. Don't worry about it.

Does anyone have any experience running 50' of HDMI to an AE900? I've seen a number of posts indicating no problems with 25', but lengths greater than 25' can't be that rare. Thanks.

You can find some info here:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/dvi_hdmi_copper_optical.htm

For those of you that have celing mounted the AE900, did you have a problem with having to use "too much" of the vertical shift causing negative effects on the image?

If you use anywhere near the full vertical lens shift, there are some convergence issues that are noticeable with white text, but it's not much of an issue unless you sit close to the screen. I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but I recommend keeping the lens shift within the height range of the screen wherever possible.

My question is about running an HDMI cable from the Oppo (or a switch, in the future) to the projector. Is 50' too far? 50' would allow me to run the video cable along some lowered crown molding (used for rope lighting) to the front of my room and would be perfect. 33' (10 meters) wouldn't be enough.


The output level of the Oppo is not that high, so 50' might be a problem. You could use a fiber optic cable, but they're usually more expensive than the Oppo.

OK, I will try turning off the 1080i yes question on the xbox. I dont think my problem is the projectors response time, as the only thing that looks blurry is static text.

This still doesnt explain why it says 1080i coming out of the SA8300HD, which is set to passthrough... tho a little booklet that comes with that says something funky about hitting a key when it comes on the first time to lock it into an output mode... Stupid bad manuals!

And hey, I AM doing this right with the projector I hope? Just hitting MENU on the remote should show me what the source material is, right?

Sam

Also, has anyone tried the AE900 with any of the upconverting DVD players on the market? I'm currently considering something like the Denon 1920, which would get me into DVD-A and SACD. I wound up buying a cheap Toshiba upconverting DVD player at Costco on a whim, but I didnt open it up and am glad i didnt, after having gone to the DVD forum here and read some of the horror stories about the cheapo DVD players doing this 'Macroblocking' thing....

Anyway, wondering just how much value folks have found in the upconverting players versus the MB bug on this PJ. I see a lot of rear projectors and plasmas listed as showing it up, wasnt sure on front projectors.

Sam

Of course, going to DVD-A and SACD would make me want a new receiver too, since my current receiver uses an off board DD/DTS processor so its 6 channel direct input is already filled, meaning I'd have no place to plug the opticals from my Cable box and Xbox/eventual 360. Aint this hobby fun! =)

Thanks for the responses, guys. I've getting very close to pulling the trigger on the AE900. I'm just inspecting the bullets, very, very carefully...