As usual with a new release, we'll try and play traffic cop to keep it to a single thread for a bit. The 900 was supposedly received by 1 member today so I expect we'll have some good discussion soon.

-MP

For reference, the pre-release thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=575661

Come on sportrac! We're waiting for some first impressions. :D

Yeah, some of us are shopping even as we speak!

My projector arrived today. Unfortunately I have to wait until this evening to fire it up when it is dark in my place (not to mention that I'm still at work!). I'll post a few first impressions and then go watch a movie :)

Does anybody know how to get into the service menus? How was this done on the AE700? I don't remember...

Advanced option page in the user menu, then hold the enter key on the first choice at the top of the page (don't remember what it is called though..) give me some hints, what do you see in that advanced options section ?

This is my first Projector and my first review.

Let me just start with this, I saw no Vertical Banding. I connected a Sencore Video Pro video generator to the componet-1 input. wow! I had the pj about 9 feet away from a white wall and the zoom all the way out and it produced a nice 95" picture. wow! We first put the sencore on a white panel to look for pixels that were not working, found none. We switched to the 9 color bar pattern, the colors look very vibrant.

The projector was very quiet. Until you turn it off you don’t here the fan at all.

More to come, have to get some work done.

William

ummm, i'm waiting for a review here. I see that one was delivered this morning by UPS, and there should have been enough time by now to tell us something? Or maybe his jaw hit the ground so hard, he's unconscious or in ICU :D

I'm hoping he raves about this thing, so i can finally get a cheap 700U from one you guys who always need's the latest and greatest, and will be so excited to upgrade, that i will score a mega deal...Hey, i don't play the lottery, but i still dream. ;)

ummm, i'm waiting for a review here. I see that one was delivered this morning by UPS, and there should have been enough time by now to tell us something? Or maybe his jaw hit the ground so hard, he's unconscious or in ICU :D

I'm hoping he raves about this thing, so i can finally get a cheap 700U from one you guys who always need's the latest and greatest, and will be so excited to upgrade, that i will score a mega deal...Hey, i don't play the lottery, but i still dream. ;)


bigrushhead... are you still looking for an AE-700?!? Hehehehehe.
I am curious to se the comparisons by those who have had the AE-700 and what improvements the new 900 gives them as well.

Craig

More to come, have to get some work done.
William

Work? There are more pressing issues at hand! ;) Need more input!!!

Nilsp

This is my first Projector and my first review.

Let me just start with this, I saw no Vertical Banding.

William

Promising start.

Looking forward to hearing a full write-up soon.

Thanks.

I just found this new review from Australia. Scroll down on page to see review after specifications.

http://www.ausmedia.com.au/panasonic_ae_900.htm

Does anyone know where to see a copy of the Manual?

Does anyone know where to see a copy of the Manual?

I haven't found it anywhere yet, but I'm going to compare the hard copy of the manual to the AE700. I imagine there will be more similarities than differences. I'll be firing the 900 up in another hour or so and we'll see how it goes.

I haven't found it anywhere yet, but I'm going to compare the hard copy of the manual to the AE700. I imagine there will be more similarities than differences. I'll be firing the 900 up in another hour or so and we'll see how it goes.

I have looked through my AE900 manual and didn't find too much of a difference from the AE700 manual. Things seem pretty much the same in that regard which is fine... I'm looking for an increase in performance :)

Is overscan (cropping) adjustable on the AE900 for component video input?

There is no way to control overscan on the AE700. It crops about 5% of the image on all sides, which I find unacceptable.

on the edge of my seat....

on the edge of my seat....

Before we discuss any comparisons or analysis of the AE900, we will be doing a comma count in the new AE900 and AE700 manual. Please tune in for these critical results.
:p

It's almost 9pm. Do you have a bloody clue yet about the AE900? Sorry I'm from New York and sarcasm is a staple. I can't believe into the first day of release we're posting on the respective manuals.

I can't believe into the first day of release we're posting on the respective manuals.

True dat!!!!

C'mon, fellow AVSers! Get with the program!

I just upgraded to the AE900 and what a great unit. I have my unit set up in my theater with about a 13'6" throw dist and the picture increased to 134" diag, The color is just brilliant and the 1100 lumens were good enough so that I could even turn the lights on about 75% before starting to loose the rich deep colors. I tested it with my HD and SD channels and watched a DVD. Threw in a couple very dark movies like Underworld and the contrast on dark colors is unbelievable. All this and I haven't even messed with the setup yet.

bottom line, out of the box, awesome rich colors and picture on everything. Even SD channels look good with the exception of a few channels on Dish that have a lousy picture anyway. Very quiet unit. Going to watch another movie.

I've already posted this list of questions in Daniel's thread but I'll do it again here as it looks like you lucky few will get to play with the AE900 first... Any help in answering these would be greatly appreciated.

1. Is the aspect ratio locked when viewing 720p or 1080i material?
2. Is there native panamorph support?
3. How is the scaling/deinterlacing... I think panny uses a proprietary chip? Any differences from previous pannys?
4. Will it handle 1080p input?
5. How soft/sharp is the picture with the new smoothscreen implementation (as compared to older implementations)?
6. With the HS51, people reported that the dynamic iris changes (brightness mainly) were noticeable. The AE900 is supposed to be able to change 60 times/sec... is it noticable in regular viewing?
7. Based on calibrated brightness, what is the largest screen you'd recommend?
8. If anyone in attendence has or has seen an AE300, will I be blown away by the upgrade?

-Matt

Here is a mini review from a thread just started by another member:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586496

It has been suggested to me that the AE900U cant project a quality image bigger than 106 or 110". You say you projected a 134" image. How was its quality??
I may be ordering the PJ tomorrow and would like a 120+" screen, but not if it can't do that size of an image justice.
What do you think??

I got mine today and watched the Longest Yard and some HDTV over component. It is replacing my AE300, which I was mostly happy with except for the on/off contrast. I did not see any VB (and never saw any on the AE300 either), but FPN is still there. Contrast is better and the 900 was of course much brighter than my AE300 with 3300 hrs on it. I did my viewing in cinema1 with lamp on low and the DI on. I never noticed the DI working. The DVD looked a bit more like HDTV than it did on the 300, but the increase in resolution did not make nearly as much an impression as the better contrast did. I'm glad I upgraded, but would still like better on/off contrast-the black bars are still pretty grey. I have not seen the AE500 or AE700, but from what I have read the 900 is an improvement over them. I'm certainly glad I did not upgrade sooner.

I am interested in image size as well. I might be buying the AE900u sight unseen and want a screen at 120+". Any thoughts??

Thanks Rboster, should of posted this here.

I just upgraded to the AE900 and what a great unit. I have my unit set up in my theater with about a 13'6" throw dist and the picture increased to 134" diag, The color is just brilliant and the 1100 lumens were good enough so that I could even turn the lights on about 75% before starting to loose the rich deep colors. I tested it with my HD and SD channels and watched a DVD. Threw in a couple very dark movies like Underworld and the contrast on dark colors is unbelievable. All this and I haven't even messed with the setup yet.

bottom line, out of the box, awesome rich colors and picture on everything. Even SD channels look good with the exception of a few channels on Dish that have a lousy picture anyway. Very quiet unit. Going to watch another movie.

As Tim "The Tool man" Taylor says... "more power!"

It has been suggested to me that the AE900U cant project a quality image bigger than 106 or 110". You say you projected a 134" image. How was its quality??
I may be ordering the PJ tomorrow and would like a 120+" screen, but not if it can't do that size of an image justice.
What do you think??

NewTricks

I sent you a PM but to answer your question. 134" diagonal picture looks awesome in HD and DVD. When I test the SD Channels, they were broadcast in 4:3 and the picture was very nice with no overflow of light outside the picture. Everything was crisp. We played with the zoom to see if picture would change, especially on SD channels and there was no change to the 10 of us. Go as big as you can.

I've done a few hours of playing around with the 900 and as a DLP guy, I'm very impressed. I'll have more to comment on tomorrow after I run it through a full eval with Avia Pro and OpticOne, but right out of the box it looks really good.

This is the 4th unit I've seen now (two at CEDIA, the one used in the Projector Reviews test and this one) and none have had even a hint of vertical banding in any of the scenes or full color screens mentioned in other posts. I don't see any other artifacts (like FPN), but I've never seen it before so I'll defer to those that have.

There are a lot of adjustments possible through the user menu, so it could take some time to fine tune everything.

Most of the menu adjustments and capabilities are the same as the 700 and yes, the manuals are almost identical.

More to follow.

Could any of you lucky AE900 owners tell me how much a standard definition DVD video is cropped by this projector due to overscanning? And is the amount of overscanning adjustable on the AE900?

sfb,
"I'm glad I upgraded, but would still like better on/off contrast-the black bars are still pretty grey"
My I ask what are the lighting, and room color conditions of your room?

I got mine today and watched the Longest Yard and some HDTV over component. It is replacing my AE300, which I was mostly happy with except for the on/off contrast. I did not see any VB (and never saw any on the AE300 either), but FPN is still there. Contrast is better and the 900 was of course much brighter than my AE300 with 3300 hrs on it. I did my viewing in cinema1 with lamp on low and the DI on. I never noticed the DI working. The DVD looked a bit more like HDTV than it did on the 300, but the increase in resolution did not make nearly as much an impression as the better contrast did. I'm glad I upgraded, but would still like better on/off contrast-the black bars are still pretty grey. I have not seen the AE500 or AE700, but from what I have read the 900 is an improvement over them. I'm certainly glad I did not upgrade sooner.

Congratulation for your new toy and Thank you for the review. Regarding FPN do you notice permanent streaks when there is a green background and movement like in football or movement on gray background? Is it that noticable or you have to realy look for it like on green test screen? I wish reviwers provide screenshots of any artifacts (if there is any) so we can see if it is tolerable. Up to 500KB pictures is allowed to be attached to posts here.
I have a 700 and I am very happy with it except FPN and looking to get 900.

DrA

sfb -- Have you calibrated your new AE900 with AVIA or DVE? The gray (not black) bars sounds like your Brightness level (black level) is set too high.

You guy's are amazing !!

Only two grand for this projector and some of you really expect 100% perfection ? Hell, we still don't have "perfect" for $30,000
Lot's of us in the other forum would have gladly paid $7-8,000 or more for this kind of perfomance and image quality for a digital pj just 2 years ago.

You don't realize how lucky you are.
I think many of us are looking for improvements over last years LCD's, and to see if the new ones still have the same flaws as the last ones.

Could any of you lucky AE900 owners tell me how much a standard definition DVD video is cropped by this projector due to overscanning? And is the amount of overscanning adjustable on the AE900?

There appeared to be no cropping what so ever and the really nice thing is that there was no light over run beyond my screen. Beyond the picture it was dark unlike my last pj. As far as DVD's, I used five and all were at the 134" diag size and awesome.

Congratulation for your new toy and Thank you for the review. Regarding FPN do you notice permanent streaks when there is a green background and movement like in football or movement on gray background? Is it that noticable or you have to realy look for it like on green test screen? I wish reviwers provide screenshots of any artifacts (if there is any) so we can see if it is tolerable. Up to 500KB pictures is allowed to be attached to posts here.
I have a 700 and I am very happy with it except FPN and looking to get 900.

DrA

I can honestly say that I did notice some gassy images when comparing a few MLB games last night but came to the conclusion that comparing it with my 57" Mitsu, it was a poor broadcast on those Dish channels. For example, Even a SD MLB game looked almost as good as the Yank's/Sox game on ESPNHD and another SD game looked like crap on everything in the house. Answer, yes to green depending on quality of picture being sent.

I would like to add that I was a DLP guy and with months of research and some valued information from CT_Wiebe, I switched to the LCD market with this AE900 and glad I did.

I will try to get you guys some pic's later today, it's one of my boys birthdays and I'm sure he will want to watch a movie

I can honestly say that I did notice some gassy images when comparing a few MLB games last night but came to the conclusion that comparing it with my 57" Mitsu, it was a poor broadcast on those Dish channels. For example, Even a SD MLB game looked almost as good as the Yank's/Sox game on ESPNHD and another SD game looked like crap on everything in the house. Answer, yes to green depending on quality of picture being sent.

The Yanks/Sox game on ESPN last night wasn't in HD.

[QUOTE=HiTechGuy]There appeared to be no cropping what so ever and the really nice thing is that there was no light over run beyond my screen. Beyond the picture it was dark unlike my last pj. As far as DVD's, I used five and all were at the 134" diag size and awesome.

What is the gain of your screen and what brightness mode are you in?

thanks
Paul

[QUOTE=HiTechGuy]There appeared to be no cropping what so ever and the really nice thing is that there was no light over run beyond my screen. Beyond the picture it was dark unlike my last pj. As far as DVD's, I used five and all were at the 134" diag size and awesome.

What is the gain of your screen and what brightness mode are you in?

thanks
Paul

Paul, I don't honestly remember the gain, that's what age does to you but I can tell you it is a Da-lite Hi-Def Grey screen.

My update on checking for artifacts of any kind:

I put up all the primary and secondary full color screens last night and saw no artifacts. Same thing went for scenes with fog, as some had mentioned.
I also had difficulty seeing any brightness changes where the iris may have been tripped up by subtitles on a dark background. I believe the higher speed of the AE900's iris is making it undetectable, at least to my eyes.

The only time I noticed a difference was in direct side-by-side comparison with a DLP projector (H78) in a scene where most of it was dark with a bright spot near the center. There, the dark areas were not as dark as the DLP (which was equal in many other scenes), presumably because the iris was open. Never would have known it without the comparison.

This is all being used on a 92", 1.0 gain, matte white screen (although I also used a Greywolf as well). I'm sending it a 720p feed from an Oppo DVD player over HDMI. The settings are at Picture Mode: Normal, Lamp Power: Low, NR: Off and all other settings on default except for setting white and black level. I haven't even touched any color settings yet. I'll be calibrating it later today with OpticOne and post the before and after greyscale.

Thanks Mike for your great post. I am looking forward to see your results and settings after you calibrate. I had planned to wait for the shootout with the Z4 but after seeing what you and others have said I may take the plunge.

Mike,

I would be interested to hear your opinion on the 2 different screens that you have. I've got an AE900 coming on Wednesday and am thinking of getting the Greywolf to help enhance the blacks. Let me know how good the blacks are on the matte white screen you have.

I've been using an NEC XG CRT projector for the past 3 years with a Torus screen with Vutec 3.1 gain screen material. I'm just a bit worried that I won't like the grey screen since I'm used to the white screen.

Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Mike,

I am also interested in hearing about your results using the Greywolf screen. I have a 92" Graywolf & have the 900 U coming on Thursday. Any specific tweakings you can recommend for this combination will be very much appreciated.

I haven't been able to figure out how to get into the service menu. My unit has very slight VB that is visible in the greens (it is not nearly as bad as the AE700). If I could tweak this that would be great.

I noticed that the Z4 has a built in menu for doing this tweak...

Good news is that the smooth screen is now awesome! Zero screendoor and zero peek-a-boo scanlines which I could easily see on the AE700. Contrast also is very nice. Overall a nice improvement from the AE700.

My update on checking for artifacts of any kind:

I put up all the primary and secondary full color screens last night and saw no artifacts. Same thing went for scenes with fog, as some had mentioned.
I also had difficulty seeing any brightness changes where the iris may have been tripped up by subtitles on a dark background. I believe the higher speed of the AE900's iris is making it undetectable, at least to my eyes.

The only time I noticed a difference was in direct side-by-side comparison with a DLP projector (H78) in a scene where most of it was dark with a bright spot near the center. There, the dark areas were not as dark as the DLP (which was equal in many other scenes), presumably because the iris was open. Never would have known it without the comparison.

This is all being used on a 92", 1.0 gain, matte white screen (although I also used a Greywolf as well). I'm sending it a 720p feed from an Oppo DVD player over HDMI. The settings are at Picture Mode: Normal, Lamp Power: Low, NR: Off and all other settings on default except for setting white and black level. I haven't even touched any color settings yet. I'll be calibrating it later today with OpticOne and post the before and after greyscale.

Mike,

Thanks so much for your comments. Would appreciate after you have a chance to calibrate more comments against the H78, the AE700 and your preferences if at all possible.

Also, do you have HD sources available. The quality ones can really help these pjs distinguish themselves.

I haven't been able to figure out how to get into the service menu.

Yeah. The method mentioned for the AE700 doesn't work with the 900.

Thanks so much for your comments. Would appreciate after you have a chance to calibrate more comments against the H78, the AE700 and your preferences if at all possible.

The H78 comparison was a one shot deal, but I do have a Toshiba MT700 for comparison. I don't have an AE700, nor have I ever spent much time with one, so I'll leave that comparison to those that have experience with it.


Also, do you have HD sources available. The quality ones can really help these pjs distinguish themselves.

Yes, DirecTv and OTA HD programming, but I haven't got to it yet.

Finally Sold my NEC 9PG CRT, speakers and components and am finially going digital and these reviews on the Panny AE900 are really pumping me up. Thank you for all your posts on this new projector. I'm new to this forum and I really appreciate the information. For those of you who are interested (and I'm excited to tell you) that I am going with a 6.1 inwall design:

6 x in-wall Paradigm Reference SA-35's
2 x Seismic 12 Subs
1 x Onkyo TX-NR803 Reciever (Will also drive back centre channel)
1 x Anthem Statement A5 5 Channel Amp
1 x 120" Screen Innovations CinePerf Screen
1 x Panasonic AE900 to kick it into gear

This Panny AE900 is going to be the centrepiece of my new entertainment room!

Giddy up!

The H78 comparison was a one shot deal.
Any other detail on the overall PQ comparison between the H78 and the AE900?

So far I'm hearing "no cropping" of images through HMDI. Awesome.

In a early review it was stated that there is a setting for 1x1 mapping with no cropping.

I guess Panasonic listened to the complaints about the 700

In a early review it was stated that there is a setting for 1x1 mapping with no cropping.

I guess Panasonic listened to the complaints about the 700

I have owned my 700 for 1year and had no complaints except that I really expected an obvious and clear improvement over the 700 especially in the lumen area, being that lcd tech is without ? the one with the brightest pj's; regarding the contrast I'm sure many will agree that "individual perception" will have lots to do with how different or improved it seems. one thing for sure is I find no reason to even consider an upgrade at this time and will wait for the 1100U OR 1300U when they finally add some more lumens... :mad:

I have owned my 700 for 1year and had no complaints except that I really expected an obvious and clear improvement over the 700 especially in the lumen area, being that lcd tech is without ? the one with the brightest pj's; regarding the contrast I'm sure many will agree that "individual perception" will have lots to do with how different or improved it seems. one thing for sure is I find no reason to even consider an upgrade at this time and will wait for the 1100U OR 1300U when they finally add some more lumens... :mad:

I want to make sure I understand your post. You say you've had a 700 for a year. Do you now have a 900 that you're doing a side by side comparison with? Or, are your comments based on information gathered here on the forum? Thanks :D

Mike,

"I also had difficulty seeing any brightness changes where the iris may have been tripped up by subtitles on a dark background. I believe the higher speed of the AE900's iris is making it undetectable, at least to my eyes."

I'm a little confused. It seems that the problem would show up when there's less than full brightness in the program, and at transitions between subtitles and no subtitles.

Then it would seem that the faster the DI is, the easier to notice the change in black level.

Thanks

I don't think there will be a great difference for many between the 700 & 900. I don't know if it will be worth an upgrade. This does not mean that the 900 will not be better than the 700 in several area including less vb, better blacks, and 1x1 mapping. It seems that things are getting slightly better each year. I am sure that when we get 1080p projectors they will be even better. Some of us must have the latest toys others can wait. That's what makes things interesting.

It seems that the problem would show up when there's less than full brightness in the program, and at transitions between subtitles and no subtitles.

I don't really see any change in the background or subtitle brightness as the subtitles appear and disappear, which tells me that the DI is not easily fooled. That's probably part of its extensive scene recognition though, so maybe its better described as speed of recognition rather than open/close speed.

Mike and others with the early reviews....thanks so much for taking the time to post your thoughts. I appreciate it.

Mike, I'm particularly looking forward to seeing what setting adjustments you made after calibration.

Ron

I owned an AE500 and the only problem I had was dust. The damn thing was a dust magnet and the filters supplied (worthless foam) did nothing to stop dust. Soon the colors started getting "pinkish" and in the end I just sold it to a friend who could care less.

Does the AE900 have a better filter system than the 700 and the 500?

Since the Panasonics and the "Z" models for Sanyo are relatively the same in the past generations, I can say it's safe to surmise that this trend will continue with the Z4.

The only reason I am considering the Z4 is that it has been the counterpart to the Pansonic projectors for a few years now (I'm a big panasonic fan) and that the Z4 not only has an automatic lens cover, but it also has a "hepa-like" filter system AND a way to blow the dust off of the LCD's without sending it into service.

I was considering a BenQ 7700, with it's sealed light path, but I really don't want to get a BenQ with the crappy lamp that blows out prematurely and have to wait two weeks for a replacement :(

At EBAY Australia some bloke is trying to sell a PT-AE900U which he says he has owned for 3 months. All I have to say is "Interesting".

At EBAY Australia some bloke is trying to sell a PT-AE900U which he says he has owned for 3 months. All I have to say is "Interesting".



My thoughts as well. how can he have had it for 3 months. the final code or product or firmware wouldnt have been finished back then............

I owned both a Z2 and a Panasonic AE700. The dust filter on the 700 was much better than the one on the Z2. It had a hepa like filter and a pre filter built in. I did not have any dust problems with the A700 but I had major problems with the Z2. If you have a real dust problem I would suggest using a hepa air purifier in the room. The one advantage the Z4 has is the holes for dust cleaning. I would also expect that the filter on the 900 would be at least as good as the one on the 700.

I am looking at 2 alternatives... Optoma H78/79 and keep for a while or go lower price with an AE700 and switch to a 1080 earlier. Is there much of a noticable difference between the two?

I am looking at 2 alternatives... Optoma H78/79 and keep for a while or go lower price with an AE700 and switch to a 1080 earlier. Is there much of a noticable difference between the two?

This thread has a mini review and comparison between the 700 and 900, with more to come on Monday:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583189&page=3

Viper: Since the first units are just now getting into the market's hands it maybe a while before you get more than a couple of comparisons between 700 and 900 and less likely comparisons between the 900 and Optoma H78/79 projectors.

There is more information out there comparing the 700 and 900 to some degree. You'll need to search the previous large thread on the 900.

GL
Ron

I have seen Daniels initial review of the AE-900 vs. the 700, (sounds very promising) but honestly I thought there would be several reviews by now.
Perhaps late tonight, or on Monday they will start pouring in.
Come on guys... post your impressions. :)

Craig

What is Panasonic's policy regarding dead pixels? It's a very nice early review from Daniel and I'm nitpicking here. Just curious.

What is Panasonic's policy regarding dead pixels? It's a very nice early review from Daniel and I'm nitpicking here. Just curious.


I dunno about that, but you can't give the Panny AE700 away on Ebay. It looks like graveyard city.

Wow, I didn't realize things would get this bad so soon.

Looks like I'll be keeping my AE700 and its minor vertical banding for now.

Any other detail on the overall PQ comparison between the H78 and the AE900?

Well, the H78 has deeper blacks and shadow detail. If price were not a concern, I would take the H78 over the AE900 any day, but that's a pretty big difference in price.

Hey Mike! Have you done a comparison between your Toshiba MT700 vs. the Pany 900?

Mike,

"I don't really see any change in the background or subtitle brightness as the subtitles appear and disappear, which tells me that the DI is not easily fooled."

Good to hear, and Daniel said the same.

Thanks

I'd be curios to know how the black level compares with the 4805. I am more than happy with the black level of my 4805, but want to upgrade to a 720p projector. I am considering either the Panny 900 or the Z4 if they have a black level comparable to the 4805. Otherwise I may have to spend a little more and go with a 720p dlp unit instead.

could you guys pls advise me on screen for the A900?

my viewing distance is about 4.5m - about 15 ft and room is totaly dark with black/grey walls/ceiling.
projector will be mounted on ceiling.

what size/material/brand would be recomended?

thx,
Gennady

a german version instruction manual is available on the internet at www.panasonic.ch just go to products, find the projector, and look for "dokumente" on the left hand side.

k.

could you guys pls advise me on screen for the A900?

my viewing distance is about 4.5m - about 15 ft and room is totaly dark with black/grey walls/ceiling.
projector will be mounted on ceiling.

what size/material/brand would be recomended?

thx,
Gennady

I would call this site.
I bought my AE-700 from this site and they recommended a Da-Lite HCCV screen with my PJ. ;)

Craig

I dunno about that, but you can't give the Panny AE700 away on Ebay. It looks like graveyard city.

Wow, I didn't realize things would get this bad so soon.

Looks like I'll be keeping my AE700 and its minor vertical banding for now.


I am not surprised that they are not selling. The AE-700 is a perfectly good unit, but the projector for what ever the reason has been nitpicked to death on the AV forums. Especially this one. I mean, how many positive comments do you hear vs. negative ones about the AE-700?
I never even tried to sell mine.
I would keep it before I tried to sell it for what I have been seeing them go for on line. If you are going to give it away, it might as well be to a nice charity. ;)
Perhaps you could give it to a charity like your church or school, then write it off on your taxes.
Either that, when I upgrade from my AE-700 to something else, the 700 will become a nice out-door PJ. ;)
There are better options, than just giving them to someone on E-Bay or what ever.

Just to add a little bit to Daniel's review...

What Daniel said about the contrast and low level detail was spot on. I would also mention that the color balance was much more pleasing than my 700 which I have tweaked for weeks, using every setting and every color filter known to man. In a word... just gorgeous!



Over-all impression: It would be hard not to recommend the AE900 to someone looking to purchase a projector now. But for me, with a slightly less than one year old AE700 that still dazzles me every time I watch it, I think I'll wait another year or two to upgrade. Without a side by side comparison, the AE700 is still a very nice projector.

I do stand corrected. :D Here is a nice comment from another thread discussing the new AE-900. But positive comments are still few and far between.

Craig

I'll take this off topic for just a second. :)

What's wrong with giving an old projector away? Haven't you ever enjoyed getting a good deal on something that you otherwise might not have had?

My first projector, was given to me by a friend. At the time, there was no way I could have purchased one. My wife and I enjoyed that projector for about a year and then bought a new one. Giving the old one away to yet another new Home Theater family.

I know first hand that it hurts to see that your baby is worth nothing on the market, but that's the nature of a technology based hobby.

I am now purchasing a 900, and have a 3 year old DLP that I'm going to give to someone in hopes "Passing it on".

I think most of the people hunting deals on ebay are doing it because its the only way they can afford one

I'll take this off topic for just a second. :)

What's wrong with giving an old projector away? Haven't you ever enjoyed getting a good deal on something that you otherwise might not have had?

My first projector, was given to me by a friend. At the time, there was no way I could have purchased one. My wife and I enjoyed that projector for about a year and then bought a new one. Giving the old one away to yet another new Home Theater family.

I know first hand that it hurts to see that your baby is worth nothing on the market, but that's the nature of a technology based hobby.

I am now purchasing a 900, and have a 3 year old DLP that I'm going to give to someone in hopes "Passing it on".

I think most of the people hunting deals on ebay are doing it because its the only way they can afford one


I am not saying don't give it away. Infact, my above post clearly states, that I would give it away, (That would be $0.00) to a worth while charity. What I am saying is, I am not giving my PJ to some guy out there who is just looking for a great deal.
I realize that electronics changes over time... that is just the nature of things. But I would feel much better about my self for giving my PJ to my church or local school than selling it for $1000 to someone I don't even know on E-Bay and I urge everyone else to do the same.
If more did this, it might just drive the price up a little. ;)

Craig

I just sold my AE500(600 hours) in Hong Kong for US$700. I don't even understand why you guys are discussing to give a AE700 or an old DLP away to school or church. Our money is hard-earn n blood dripping out from each penny.

What is Panasonic's policy regarding dead pixels? It's a very nice early review from Daniel and I'm nitpicking here. Just curious.

My biggest fear with LCD is dealing with stuck pixels. The stuck red and stuck green pixels really show up well in a lot of scenes.

Panasonic considers a unit with 3-5 stuck/dead pixels to be within manufacturers' tolerances and will not do any warranty work for that problem. I know from personal experience.

Don

If you buy your projector from a good dealer they will switch if for you if you find dead pixals withing the first 4 or 5 hours.

Point taken. Sorry if I sounded as though you weren't of charitable mind...you did clearly state so. :) I'm suggesting that the person buying off of ebay may not be someone looking to make a steal, they may be doing what is in their means to do.

I just ordered my 900!!! Hope to have it by before next weekend.

I owned an AE500 and the only problem I had was dust. The damn thing was a dust magnet and the filters supplied (worthless foam) did nothing to stop dust. Soon the colors started getting "pinkish" and in the end I just sold it to a friend who could care less.

Does the AE900 have a better filter system than the 700 and the 500?


This is exactly the problem i have with my Panasonic AE500. Dust spots, atleast four large ones. I was going to upgrade to an Optoma H79, but my girlfriend has epilepsy and we discovered today that after only a short period of viewing a DLP projector (a high-end Sim2 one) she got very sore eyes and the middle of her head and felt a bit strange.

Therefore, i think i am about to purchase a Panasonic AE900. I would like it to have a far better picture than my AE500, mainly in terms of contrast, because at times, the AE500 was a bit washed out.

Can someone recommend the right screen for me. Will either of these two give me a good level of black:

http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/product.asp?id=4624

http://www.av-sales.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=Draper-Road-73&cat=173&nav=19

Thanks
Chris

P.S. Is there any info on whether or not the dust filter is any better? Can it be rectified if it does get very dusty and spots appear on the screen. Is it a simple cleaning process by Panasonic?

From those who have seen this unit in action, is it bright enough in cinema mode to display a decent picture on a 126" screen? My screen is in a dedicated dark theater room with 100% light control.

Thanks

Paul

Can someone recommend the right screen for me. Will either of these two give me a good level of black:

Both appear to be standard gain matte white which will work fine. If you want deeper blacks, look at a grey screen. Don't know if it's available to you, but the Optoma Greywolf is a great low cost alternate and a good match with the 900.

Hey Mike! Have you done a comparison between your Toshiba MT700 vs. the Pany 900?

Only from memory as I have recently fallen to the dead bulb disease of the MT700/PE7700. :(
I'll have a comparison once I get a new bulb.

From those who have seen this unit in action, is it bright enough in cinema mode to display a decent picture on a 126" screen? My screen is in a dedicated dark theater room with 100% light control.

I don't know about Cinema 1, which is really dark, but Cinema 2 should work just fine. I have to do some calibrating, but so far Cinema 1 is almost unusable on my 92" screen, even with total light control.

According to the specs, the AE900 has a much smaller throw range than the AE700 (7.8-40ft vs. 7.8-20ft), is that correct? I've been interested in the AE900 since it has the ability to do a long throw from the opposite side of a fairly large room. My room is about 25 ft long, so according to the specs, the AE700 would work, but the 900 would not.

Dave G.

The throw range in the AE900 manual is 3'-11" to 40'-8". Of course, it all depends on your screen size as well.

Both appear to be standard gain matte white which will work fine. If you want deeper blacks, look at a grey screen.


Mike,
Is there enough lumens for CC filter calibration? To me this would be preferable to a grey screen.

ted

I know others are using filters with the AE700, so it should be fine for the 900 as well. I have a few I might try out eventually. The Normal or Cinema 1 settings should work.

This is exactly the problem i have with my Panasonic AE500. Dust spots, atleast four large ones. I was going to upgrade to an Optoma H79, but my girlfriend has epilepsy and we discovered today that after only a short period of viewing a DLP projector (a high-end Sim2 one) she got very sore eyes and the middle of her head and felt a bit strange.

http://www.av-sales.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=Draper-Road-73&cat=173&nav=19

Thanks
Chris

P.S. Is there any info on whether or not the dust filter is any better? Can it be rectified if it does get very dusty and spots appear on the screen. Is it a simple cleaning process by Panasonic?

I have no dust problems on my AE700 after ~300 hours. I used to have dust issues with the PLV60 that preceded the AE700, and both have been in the same environment.

The AE700 dust filter is a far more advanced design than the AE500 foam or the PLV60's filters.

The AE700 uses a high surface area two stage filter, using a micro fiber for the second stage. It is easy to remove and clean, and is very effective at keeping visible contaminents out of the AE700 optical path.

If the AE900 uses the AE700 design (or equivalent/better), you should have nothing to worry about re: dust.

The throw range in the AE900 manual is 3'-11" to 40'-8". Of course, it all depends on your screen size as well.

Cool, thanks. The specs must be wrong on Projector Central. Screen size calculator only lets you go to 20' or so. My screen is 130". Using the calculator for the AE700, it works for my configuration.

Dave G.

Cool, thanks. The specs must be wrong on Projector Central. Screen size calculator only lets you go to 20' or so. My screen is 130". Using the calculator for the AE700, it works for my configuration.

Dave G.

This is from the AE900 spec sheet.

Calculation of the projection distance

Aspect ratio 16 : 9

minimum L (m) = (diagonal screen size in inches) x 0.0311 - 0.056
maximum L (m) = (diagonal screen size in inches) x 0.0621 - 0.056

Aspect ratio 4 : 3

minimum L (m) = (diagonal screen size in inches) x 0.0381 - 0.046
maximum L (m) = (diagonal screen size in inches) x 0.0761 - 0.056

Thanks for the replies on dust and on the screens guys. On the dust side of things, im pleased to hear that there is a big difference between the useless AE500 filters, and the AE700's filters. So here's to hoping that they have improved it again to a higher level with the AE900.

As for the screens, im afraid the Optoma Greywolf isnt available in the UK. I've read a bit of info on it and its a gain of 1.8? I don't know much about screens, but i thought i should be looking for something with a gain of around 1.0-1.2 and no higher if i want to keep high levels of black?

You may have noticed those screens are both protable pull-up ones, and both no wider than 163cm (my max widtha t the min). Is there a grey cloth type you would recommend me getting instead?

I can get a Da-Lite Insta-Theatre one in 73" Diagonal and any type of screen i would like in it. For the Panasonic, what is the best screen to go for. It will always be used in a dark room, no ambient light and hopefully on a low Lumen output.

THanks
Chris

"Wow, I didn't realize things would get this bad so soon."

I don't get it. I just checked ebay completed auctions, and the very cheapest went for $1400.

I presume the Panasonic have a good built in scaler? I heard the one in the Optoma H79 was a better performing scaler than the £800 DVDO Iscan HD+ scaler. Now that i cant get that DLP projector, and that im going to order a Panasonic PTAE900 tomorrow, it would be good to know if the Scaler is a decent one.

It will be combined with my DV7600 from Marantz and run through a HDMI cable. The DV7600 has its on scaler built in. Should i leave this on interlaced and let the Panasonic take the effort of scaling, or can i leave them both on 720p output?

Thanks
Chris

For those who have seen the AE900 model and had previous experiences with their earlier line, how much improvement, in terms of percentages, would you give the 900 over the 700AE…25%…50%…or 5%?

And how would you compare the improvement percentage to that of...let's say, the 500 over the 300 model, which I had already seen before?

I was also wondering how much of an improvement I will be getting if I upgrade from my Sony HS20, before seriously considering the Ruby for next year.

Thanks.

As for the screens, im afraid the Optoma Greywolf isnt available in the UK. I've read a bit of info on it and its a gain of 1.8? I don't know much about screens, but i thought i should be looking for something with a gain of around 1.0-1.2 and no higher if i want to keep high levels of black?

That's what's great about the GreyWolf, it combines both high gain and a grey screen at a low price. There are other screens that do this (and do it better), but they cost much more.


I can get a Da-Lite Insta-Theatre one in 73" Diagonal and any type of screen i would like in it. For the Panasonic, what is the best screen to go for. It will always be used in a dark room, no ambient light and hopefully on a low Lumen output.

THanks
Chris

If you can order a custom-made Insta-Theater screen, you might conside the HCCV material, which gives better blacks without loss of brightness.

I presume the Panasonic have a good built in scaler? I heard the one in the Optoma H79 was a better performing scaler than the £800 DVDO Iscan HD+ scaler. Now that i cant get that DLP projector, and that im going to order a Panasonic PTAE900 tomorrow, it would be good to know if the Scaler is a decent one.

It will be combined with my DV7600 from Marantz and run through a HDMI cable. The DV7600 has its on scaler built in. Should i leave this on interlaced and let the Panasonic take the effort of scaling, or can i leave them both on 720p output?

Thanks
Chris

I am using a 7600 too n planning to get a AE900 soon, when it becomes available here in Hong Kong. Since the 7600 cannot send out 480i signal thru HDMI, I think 720P should be the right choice over 1080i, because the native resolution on AE900 would be 1280x720.

Hi,

Some comments regarding the Panasonic AE900 vs BenQ 7700:


http://www.ausmedia.com.au/panasonic_ae_900.htm#review


-Ric

Darin brought his calibrated H79 over to my house last night and compared it to my uncalibrated AE900.

We were running on a 140" wide 2.35:1 HiPower screen. Sitting about 1.2X back for 2.35:1 material.

To my eyes the H79 featured better colors, black level, and ansi contrast. The ansi is just wonderful on that machine. I do think that the AE900 could have better colors once calibrated. It looked a bit "flat" but we didn't want to spend time on that.

On the downside the H79 had screendoor that was easily seen at this viewing distance. Rainbows were also visible to me but not all that bothersome. Dithering could be seen during pans, but its much better than previous DLPs that I have seen.

Both projectors were running through anamorphic lenses (ISCO and Prismasonic)

At my screen size and seating distance, I feel that the AE900 is the best choice for me given the price difference. I hate screendoor (the 900 has *none*) and can wait for a nice 1080p DLP someday for that good ansi contrast.

My projector also has a "stuck pixel" of some sort, but it isn't 100% on. More of a slight green than a bright green. Makes me wonder if it is a smoothscreen defect or a piece of dust. I'm waiting to hear back from my dealer before I put more hours on the bulb...

Hi,

Some comments regarding the Panasonic AE900 vs BenQ 7700:

-Ric

C'mon Ric, the thread's not that long yet where we've stopped reading the previous posts. :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6280297&&#post6280297

Please note that this is from a different thread, as this seemed like the appropriate thread for it:
Darin mentioned though that his H79 was a modified one. So my understanding is that it's better than a regular calibrated H79.
I brought an unmodified H79 for this comparison. I also put a new bulb in it before going over there, so they were pretty close in that regard. I did have the CC20R on there and did maybe 20 minutes of calibrating the colors with that.

Anyhow, I think any pj that Darin touches will surely come out more superior... :cool:
Thanks for the comment, but I'm not sure about that with the AE900, since I'm not sure if there is much I can do. But I did order one. I want to do a lot more testing with one and see how it does. I'll probably calibrate and use filtering to get it between 6 and 9 ftL and then see how it looks with some different things that way in my dark theater.

--Darin

I'll probably calibrate and use filtering to get it between 6 and 9 ftL and then see how it looks with some different things that way in my dark theater.

--Darin

Darin,
At what screen size will you aim for that range of brightness?

Darin,
At what screen size will you aim for that range of brightness?I have 92" wide and 120" wide High Power screens in my dark theater. It depends on how close I feel like sitting, but I will try this on the 92" wide for comparisons sake. And I might get the 96" wide Firehawk I used to have back and try it on that. Scott's AE900 was largely uncalibrated, but I measured about 23 ftL on a bright explosion while sitting by the projector with his 140" wide screen. We put an ND2 filter on there and then I thought it looked better with less visible digital artifacts.

--Darin

Thanks for clarifying the mod part, Darin.


more news: http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_news100305.htm

Mine is being shipped. Tracking shows it will arrive on Wed. Just wondering anyone has received? and how does it look???

Mine is being shipped. Tracking shows it will arrive on Wed. Just wondering anyone has received? and how does it look???

Maybe I'm not understanding your question...but there are several "reviews and comments" about how the 900 "looks" within this thread. Also, Daniel from AVS has another thread going about a demo of the 900 he had in his home on sat. it can be found on the first page of this forum.

Ron

Thanks. May be I should looked harder before opening my mouth....

On the downside the H79 had screendoor that was easily seen at this viewing distance. Rainbows were also visible to me but not all that bothersome. Dithering could be seen during pans, but its much better than previous DLPs that I have seen.



Should a DLP projector have screendoor? Isn't that only a prob with LCD's? Rainbows and dithering also.

Something sound wrong with this H79. Makes me rethink about getting a H78DC3.

Should a DLP projector have screendoor? Isn't that only a prob with LCD's? Rainbows and dithering also.

Something sound wrong with this H79. Makes me rethink about getting a H78DC3.
There is a limit to how close you can sit and I wouldn't suggest 1.2x for the H79 or H78DC3. 1.6x the screen width or more without an anamorphic or IMX lens is what I usually recommend for the latest 1280x720 DLPs, but it depends on how good your eyes are and how much SDE bothers you.

--Darin

About to buy, One question...where can I get an extended warranty for this thing?
I only see one of the avs sponors offering a 1-4 year extension.

Thanks for the comment, but I'm not sure about that with the AE900, since I'm not sure if there is much I can do. But I did order one. I want to do a lot more testing with one and see how it does. I'll probably calibrate and use filtering to get it between 6 and 9 ftL and then see how it looks with some different things that way in my dark theater.

--Darin
Did the AE900 meet it's on/off 5,500:1 spec in your opinion?

I will more than likely be purchasing this AE900u Projector.

My question is, what type of screen should I purchase to compliment it?

I wouldn't like to spend more than $250 on a screen. Is there anything cheaper or in that price range suitable for this projector? I don't really know much about 'gain' and stuff, so if you could give me some insight, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Moshock, tell us something about the room it will be in, like how much ambient light will there be. Also, what size screen are you thinking about?

Rick

Moshock, tell us something about the room it will be in, like how much ambient light will there be. Also, what size screen are you thinking about?

Rick

I think that this is more appropriate in the Screen forum, plus you will have better luck there :)

We were running on a 140" wide 2.35:1 HiPower screen. Sitting about 1.2X back for 2.35:1 material. Both projectors were running through anamorphic lenses (ISCO and Prismasonic)
I've asked this before without receiving an answer so hopefully you can shed some light with your 2.35:1 setup.

1) Is the aspect ratio button locked on 720p and 1080i feeds? It was on the AE300, AE500 and AE700. If not...

2) I'm pretty sure the H79 has built in 2.35:1 scaling support, as does the Sanyo Z2, Z3 and now Z4. Has Panasonic added support or did you have to use an external scaler?

Thanks for your help.
-Matt

I've asked this before without receiving an answer so hopefully you can shed some light with your 2.35:1 setup.

1) Is the aspect ratio button locked on 720p and 1080i feeds? It was on the AE300, AE500 and AE700. If not...

2) I'm pretty sure the H79 has built in 2.35:1 scaling support, as does the Sanyo Z2, Z3 and now Z4. Has Panasonic added support or did you have to use an external scaler?

Thanks for your help.
-Matt

We were using an external scaler or HTPC, but I'm pretty sure that (according to the manual) the aspect button is locked for 720p and 1080i. I'm not at home tonight but I can try later.

Moshock, tell us something about the room it will be in, like how much ambient light will there be. Also, what size screen are you thinking about?

Rick

White walls, floors, and ceiling!

There's a large porch door/window, but we can cover it with shades. We do most of our gaming/tv watching at night anyways though.

We have about 12' 6" from wall to wall. (Limited throw distance?)

I was hoping to get a screen around 106" - 120"

Please help someone!! :confused:

DarinP - Id be interested if you could let us know your settings once you calibrate the Panasoinc (that is if you get one) so that we can maybe follow suite. I have a Video Essentials calibration disc, but im not an expert at it, and it sounds like you know your stuff.

Pultzar, good to hear your comments on the Panasonic and lack of Screen Door. Very impressed with this claim. I know the 900 uses an optical Iris technology to achieve the contrast ratio of 5500:1, but any ideas on what the ANSI level is? Also, i would expect the DC3 H79 to have extremely good black levels and contrast, but did the Panny come close to being nearly as good? Bearing in mind im moving from an AE500 so it will be a step up anyway.

THanks
Chris

Also, i would expect the DC3 H79 to have extremely good black levels and contrast, but did the Panny come close to being nearly as good? Bearing in mind im moving from an AE500 so it will be a step up anyway.

THanks
Chris

I think Mike has already commented on that comparison either previously in this thread or in Daniel's Demo thread also active on this forum's front page.

Ron

Chris; Where can you get the inta-theatre with a custom screen? Every one I've looked at has the same screen.

Hi, im getting the Insta-Theatre screen from a company called Lyric Home Cinema in Belfast. They rang the Da-Lite company and asked them could they choose the type of screen they wanted on it. I was told i could choose from High matte White, High Contrast Silver, or Glass beaded.

In retrospect, the price was around £440 stg. I am still considering, but it will be dependent on whether i want a High Contrast screen or a Matte screen.

I mainly watch the Projector in a darkened room, but even with that, i am concerned that because i currently use a grey screen, that i wont be happy with the contrast.

Im happy with the brightness of my Panny 500, so im guessing that the brighter 900 will cope better as well on a High Contrast screen.

Chris

well, those are some pretty cryptic comments on projector central. some surprising differences between the three models. i wonder what it means.

well, for me it no doubt means i will have to hold off on my purchase of the ae900. my dealer told me he would be getting 20 units in, here in switzerland on next monday. i have booked the day off to pull the trigger. but pjcentral says that the reviews wont be up until the end of next week.

i wish he could put up a preliminary by the end of this week!!! c'mon mister evans and co. please!!!!

a lot of the reason i bought the ae300 was based on his review. so im also gonna pay him the respect of waiting for his views on the ae900 vs the z4.

now, if only we could get hdtv over here in switzerland!!!!!!! still, my xbox360 is preordered and im already counting the days!!!

krlock2

Finally got a chance to evaluate the AE900 a little with OpticOne last night. I can tell you that if you use the Cinema 1 setting, greyscale tracking is very good without any adjustments. The color balance leans toward green a little, but that can be dialed back in the advanced menu. Gamma is pretty good as well, at least through the middle IRE range. The uncalibrated output is around 13 Ft-L at 100 IRE (on low lamp setting), so it's pretty close to optimal. After calibration, it was right around 12 Ft-L, which translates to 300 lumens on my screen. The high lamp setting only increases the lumen output slightly (a few Ft-Ls), so I don't see a lot of value in using it, especially when the low lamp setting is is much quieter. I will say that full light control is necessary with the Cinema 1 setting and there's no need for an ND2 (or similar) filter.

Trying a couple of other settings, Cinema 2 isn't bad either, but the color temp averages a bit high at 7000K. The Normal setting is way high at around 9000K.

That's about it for now. I'll have more info tomorrow.

Mike, can you try using the Normal setting and recalibrating for D65 and proper grayscale tracking. If the AE900 is anything like the AE700 this should result in the greatest light output and contrast. hometheaterhifi.com found this to be the case with the AE700.

Thanks Scott. I'll check that out. I did notice that the color temp had to be reduced almost to the max to get the "Normal" setting down to 6500K.

Thanks Mike for another great post. Could you list your settings when you are finished as a reference and starting point for others who do not have the OpticOne.

Looking at Steve's review on hometheaterhifi again, I notice that he did not report on the Cinema settings, just the difference between Normal and Natural (which I haven't tried yet). The reason I started with Cinema 1 is that it's supposed to be the setting they did all the work with the Hollywood colorist on. It's certainly the most accurate out of the box, but there may be a potential for better results from calibration of a different setting.

Just bite the bullet and bought the panny 900 as my first projector.

Cant wait to get it, and some hi-def sources to show it off.



A little worried about all the walls and ceilings being off-color white and the light reflection this will cause. But maybe Ill be able to paint it.

My AE900 is here - I'm a projector newbie and not a HT nut, however I'm a indie filmmaker and will be using this projector in for various uses: critical image and color correction for a 1080p film I'm working on, projection in classes I teach, and part-time HT use (got an Insta-Theater screen on order).

My comments so far is the zoom is great feature and with lens shift very flexible. Color out of box with no calibration is pretty spot on - impressive. Cinema 1 and Cinema 2 both are pretty good, though Cinema 2 seems a little closer to my calibrated NTSC broadcast monitor in my editing setup. Contrast is truly better than any LCD or low-cost DLP I have seen. But so far I only projected on a painted blue wall in my classroom with plenty of ambient light. We were using a cheapo Toshiba 30U DLP before.

Projector is very quiet in all modes and easy to operate. Lumens seem good for a HT projector, though I have not done any calibration. Remote is nice and although I have a Harmony in my living room, having a second universal remote is nice. Plus I like the buttons and back-lighting it offers.

More to come when I get my screen and run some calibration then look at some 720 and 1080p 24fps native signals fed from my editing system.

I have two DVD players available - 7 year old Sony in living room and cheapo Toshiba progressive in my editing setup.

Will feeding AE900 signals from these players and letting the AE900 deinterlace and/or upconvert the signal via component do a better job than getting a cheap ($200) range HDMI player and letting the player do the work?

More to come when I get my screen and run some calibration then look at some 720 and 1080p 24fps native signals fed from my editing system.
Thanks for the quick review. If you have the means can you test 48hz sync with this projector? Thanks again.

Thanks for the quick review. If you have the means can you test 48hz sync with this projector? Thanks again.

Not sure what you mean by "48hz sync"...

mike, can you post your initial settings when you get a chance? (just as a reference point).

More to come when I get my screen and run some calibration then look at some 720 and 1080p 24fps native signals fed from my editing system.

I'll bite - Does the AE900 handle 1080P directly? Unless I misread the specs, only 1080i, and hence it won't be able to handle the 1080p signal...

I'll bite - Does the AE900 handle 1080P directly? Unless I misread the specs, only 1080i, and hence it won't be able to handle the 1080p signal...

I don't think so, but I will be sending into the VGA port, so I'm not that applies since the AE900 will think it's getting a VGA signal, not a 1080p signal.

Not sure what you mean by "48hz sync"...
Syncing with resolutions that have a 48Hz refresh rate. Contrast this with NTSC which uses 60Hz and PAL which uses 50Hz. You'll need to use an HTPC or external scalar to output 48Hz.

Syncing with resolutions that have a 48Hz refresh rate. Contrast this with NTSC which uses 60Hz and PAL which uses 50Hz. You'll need to use an HTPC or external scalar to output 48Hz.

I have neither - just will hook up the PJ to my editing computer as a second display. But I may be able to tweak refresh to 48Hz on my Martox Parhelia card.

Im eagerly awaiting the Projector Central review as well. It was their review that convinced me to purchase the PT-AE500 last time around. I have already paid my deposit for the PT-AE900, so ill be disappointed if its a bad review, however, i hope its a glowing one cuz it will make me feel a lot happier since i originally wanted an Optoma H79 and cant get it.

Chris

Looking at Steve's review on hometheaterhifi again, I notice that he did not report on the Cinema settings, just the difference between Normal and Natural (which I haven't tried yet). The reason I started with Cinema 1 is that it's supposed to be the setting they did all the work with the Hollywood colorist on. It's certainly the most accurate out of the box, but there may be a potential for better results from calibration of a different setting.

Mike,
I had not read the review of the AE700 in hometheaterhifi for quite a while. Steve found the light output and contrast post-calibration were approximately 2-fold in the Normal mode versus the Native mode. This conclusion is certainly worth investigating with the AE900.

Did the AE900 meet it's on/off 5,500:1 spec in your opinion?
I doubt it was quite that high as this one was setup, but I would have been surprised if it was under about 3k:1 also. There was a little bit of light coming in through the curtains and it is hard to pinpoint exactly. If the AE900 I'm getting doesn't have problems that force me to send it back immediately then I should be able to get good measurements of one after calibration by this weekend.

As far as the 48Hz issue, I have an iScan HD+ that is one of the easiest ways to test this (with the judder test pattern after locking to 1280x720@48Hz). I doubt it supports that, but I plan on trying it.

I know people have mentioned that subtitles don't seem to be a problem and the most difficult test I could think of was the opening credits to "Adaptation", where it toggles between a white name at the bottom of the screen on a black background and full screen black over and over. We didn't see any flicker there and the names looked white. I may try the opening of "The Ninth Gate" also.

--Darin

Darin,
If you have the time can you try the Normal picture mode and check the light output and contrast post-calibration. As noted before, this mode gave by far the highest post-calibration lumen output and contrast on the AE700.

If you have the time can you try the Normal picture mode and check the light output and contrast post-calibration. As noted before, this mode gave by far the highest post-calibration lumen output and contrast on the AE700.
I'll probably start with this mode and see if a color filter is in order. Then I'll try to get some numbers, although my goal is really just to get the best I can and then measure that.

--Darin

Mike,
I had not read the review of the AE700 in hometheaterhifi for quite a while. Steve found the light output and contrast post-calibration were approximately 2-fold in the Normal mode versus the Native mode. This conclusion is certainly worth investigating with the AE900.

Yes, it is, but those were the only two modes he checked, so we don't know if the Normal mode is the best overall. I'm going to try and get some CR figures for each mode as well.

Mike and Darin,
Sounds good. I am going to try to arrange to borrow an AE900 in the next week or two and compare it to my current Epson Cinema 500, and your initial findings may be quite useful.

I have a question for the AE900 owners, not related to the picture quality.

Looking at the owner's manual for the Z-4, I see that it's remote has separate buttons for each input source - HDMI, VGA, Component1, etc. So apparently it has discrete codes for each input source, rather than the usual Input button that cycles through the choices.

Just wondering if the AE900 also has this feature, or the more traditional Input button? Thanks,

DE

The AE900 has three buttons that cover the various connection options by doubling up on them. So, the HDMI button is for an HDMI or PC connection. The Component button toggles between the two component video inputs and the Video button toggles between S-Video and composite video. It's assumed that most people would just have one of each combination, so for them, it's like having discrete input commands.

Thanks Mike - that sounds like a good compromise.

DE

I'm in the upgrade debate mode between the current AE700 and the AE900 and the Sanyo Z4. Any initial thoughts from the folks holding the AE900 now that there's been a few days to digest?

I'm pretty divided on the upgrade. I understand that projector central will have some comparable reviews up soon.

So just looking for the initial thoughts.

Just got the PANY 900, sorry to report my unit has this issue. Does any one know how to get into the service menu to try and tweak this, also my HDMI port is not working.

CHEERS, TC

Just installed my 900 today. Upgraded from the 700 I've had for the last year. Here are some distinct physical differences on the unit.

1. It's not as boxy as the 700. They put a curve in where the front fan is positioned.
2. 2 Component in signals
3. Eliminated the 12v Trigger jack
4. Remote can be used as a universal remote w/ an LCD screen
5. Menu system has finally been updated to a modern interface. Looks great!!!
6. The iR isn't as effective as the 700. With my 700, I didn't need an IR repeater. I could point the remote at the screen and it always picked it up. The 900 is a little more sensitive and needs to be pointed in the vicinity of the unit.

As for the quality of the pic.

1. Without any tweeks, the color looked awesome.
2. With some minor tweeks to color, tint, brightness and sharpness the unit looked absolutly incredbile.
3. I did notice that the picture looked slightly brighter than the 700.
4. PC resolution is 1280x760 (Native) but is slightly mushy. 1024x768 looks perfect and crisp.
5. There are a few more enhancements to the Aspect button. Haven't played around with it much. One thing was streching a DVD onto a HD screen. I think that has some cool potential.

Overall, I would say the 900 is a well thought out LCD projector. I think it's worth every bit of the upgrade. I sold my easily on Ebay at a reasonable price. Din't have to eat too much.

Take care and good luck,
ET

Just installed my 900 today. Upgraded from the 700 I've had for the last year. Here are some distinct physical differences on the unit.

2. With some minor tweeks to color, tint, brightness and sharpness the unit looked absolutly incredbile.

ET

What tweaks did you do?

4. PC resolution is 1280x760 (Native) but is slightly mushy. 1024x768 looks perfect
ET

Weird that native looks mushy... but native is 720, no?

How did you like black levels?

Neko

I would send it back if it has a VB problem. You are the first member to report this. The HDMI port not workin is a strange problem. What are your sources? It could be a handshake problem from the source.

If the Vertical Banding is tolorable your Mercury HD needs a good home. Check is written, (lot's of zero's) envelope stamped... already to go. :)

EDIT: Better yet Tom, how about 5 AE900's with no VB and 2 World Series tickets ??:)

What tweaks did you do?
I have the AVR DVD. It allows to adjust black level, contrast, brightness, tint and sharpness. I use it on all my TVs. I haven't gotten into any of the other heavy duty tweaks like the 700 yet.

As for black levels, it seems to be a bit better than the 700. Not by much. I'll be watching Hitchhikers Guide..tonight and will let you know what I think.

Later,
ET

Just got the PANY 900, sorry to report my unit has this issue. Does any one know how to get into the service menu to try and tweak this, also my HDMI port is not working.

CHEERS, TC

I am no expert by no means but I would contact your dealer just to make them aware of the issue, talk to them about how long you can wait before a return, if you get the right answers from them, I would let the bulb break in 30 hours or so and then see if the problem fades away so to speak.

This is where a good dealer is a must and worth every extra dollar you might have paid them. :)

Weird that native looks mushy... but native is 720, no?

How did you like black levels?

Neko


You're right, native is 720 but for some reason it looks a bit mushy. The same thing happened on my 700. I've even tried to hook my hdmi-->dvi into my PC and that looks horrible on both units. The VGA cable is what I'm using for now. Any ideas there. My cable is an HDMI to DVI cable. No converter on either end.

You're right, native is 720 but for some reason it looks a bit mushy. The same thing happened on my 700. I've even tried to hook my hdmi-->dvi into my PC and that looks horrible on both units.
If your PC is sending PC levels and the projectors are expecting video levels (which HDMI inputs really should be), then the the blacks and whites should be crushed. You would need to raise the brightness and lower the contrast from the PC or adjust them on the projector (although some detail may be crushed that way), but I'm not sure if the mushiness is related to that or something else.

I believe there are some test patterns for determining whether you are getting 1:1 mapping with 1280x720 from the PC.

--Darin

Not a handshake issue, as three other units have no problem hand shaking. I too was some what surprised at the VB, as all the buzz on this new unit was around the fact that they have all but eliminated the VB. Perhaps my unit is just an anomoly. My older Z3 , and SONY HS51 have no such issues. Unit going back tomorrow, however just thought if any one new how to get into the service menu, perhaps I coud have a go at fixing that issue.

CHEERS, TC

You just might have gotten one with a problem. It does seem strange that you have had both problems when others did not. It just may be an anomoly.

Is the hdmi input better? Dvi with only 8-bits could that enlarge signs of VB? 700 owners recommend to turn the projector off, no no to standby mode.

How bad is it?

Mine has a slight VB that others said would qualify as "not existing" by most people since it is so slight. I'm going to try and tweak it in the flicker menu tonight (which I just found out about). Apparently you go to the OSD menu and then hold the enter button down.

4. PC resolution is 1280x760 (Native) but is slightly mushy. 1024x768 looks perfect and crisp.


In order for native 1280x720 to look correct over HDMI, you have to turn off an "OVERSCAN" option that can be found in the menus someplace. I don't remember exactly where it is, but doing this gave me 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI from my HTPC. Before doing this things looked aweful as it was cropping and scaling the image.

Here we go again. Shades of a year ago when the 700 was brand new.

Question:

How bad is is your VB?

What do you notice it on?

Is the hdmi input better? Dvi with only 8-bits could that enlarge signs of VB? 700 owners recommend to turn the projector off, no no to standby mode.

I have a DVI/DVI cable inside the wall. But if I put DVI-to-HDMI adaptors on both ends, does it make the cable HDMI, n can I get 10-bit signal across ???

:confused:

Got my screen today (90" Insta-Theater) and watched various DVDs via component. In a word, it rocks. No screendoor unless you walk up to the screen. Color in Cinema 1 and Cinema 2 is pretty much spot on depending on your taste.
Contrast is the best I have ever seen on a LCD though I have not seen many HT LCDs, mostly installation stuff.

I'm not sure what VB or FPN described looks like, but I saw no visual "artifacts" of any kind (other than source stuff). I look at some Avia test patterns and noticed nothing either.

I watched a couple of my films that I know how they looked when shot on camera and exactly what the levels were. Projector was spot on.

Watched about 20 minutes of Episode IV - amazing, image looked almost like HD blacks are good to outstanding - Vader's helmet, uniform, dark cloth on other imperials rendered well. Only some complex deep shadows exposed a little "LCD" muddiness. But I've seen DLP's struggle with the same blacks. And it might have been source as well.

Plenty bright in my living room at night, even with kitchen light on. Basically, the projecter exceeds 95% of most source material I tried.

I see rainbows and find them annoying, especially in B&W movies, so LCD was my only option. I think I made an excellent choice.

Thanks for the review, the AE900 is looking better and better... (I've gotta say, I'm leaning more towards the 900 than the TW600... Hopefully I'll see them both this weekend.)

NilsP
PS.
2.18 by vending machines? Really?

Got my screen today (90" Insta-Theater) and watched various DVDs via component. In a word, it rocks. No screendoor unless you walk up to the screen. Color in Cinema 1 and Cinema 2 is pretty much spot on depending on your taste.
Contrast is the best I have ever seen on a LCD though I have not seen many HT LCDs, mostly installation stuff.
....
Watched about 20 minutes of Episode IV - amazing, image looked almost like HD blacks are good to outstanding - Vader's helmet, uniform, dark cloth on other imperials rendered well. Only some complex deep shadows exposed a little "LCD" muddiness. But I've seen DLP's struggle with the same blacks. And it might have been source as well.


Stephen, what screen did you go for in your Da-Lite Insta-Theatre? Im looking at getting that screen, in the 73" diagonal, and im still very undecided on whether to get a High Matte White, or a High contrast sgrey or something?? Im concerned that the Insta-Theatre says it has a 2.2 gain and to me that sounds way way too high. Im looking for a gain somewhere in the region of 0.8 - 1.2, but realistictly id prefer to have a 1.1 gain i think, on a seamless Matt White screen

Any input is appreciated

Thanks
Chris

I think a good screen match for this projector would be the Cinema Vision by da-lite, as opposed to the High Contrast Cinema Vision. My conern with the HCCV is the picture may loose some of it's punch.

My original LCD proj. was the Sanyo PLV-60, which was very bright. I paired that with the HCCV screen material. Very good combo because the it's such a bright projector, I didn't miss toning down the brightest to gain in contrast and blacks.

When I went to the Yamaha LPX-510, the image was way too dark in the typical cinema modes used for better blacks combined with the HCCV screen material. So I changed the screen material to the CV and was very happy with the results. I still had solid blacks, but didn't loose the punch of the color/brightness....alowing me to use the cinema black modes from the proj.

Ron

Hi, my screen needs to be a portable one, ideally something like the Draper Road Warrior. I only want to project a 73" diagonal image (16:9) from a distance of around 2.5 metres. I'll be viewing it from around 2 metres slightly off-set (30 degrees) to the right of the screen.

I currently use a very cheap silver screen for my Panny 500, which gives an ok contrast ratio. But id really really like to have spot on deep blacks and an overall good image. I am considering the Draper Road Warrior in either High Contrast Grey, or the Matte White 1.1 Gain screen. The room will always be blackened for movie viewing.

Thanks
Chris

hey mr jazz since you have both the hs51 and ae900, a quick question. Which has better black levels and contrast? thanks in advance jeff

Stephen, what screen did you go for in your Da-Lite Insta-Theatre? Im looking at getting that screen, in the 73" diagonal, and im still very undecided on whether to get a High Matte White, or a High contrast sgrey or something?? Im concerned that the Insta-Theatre says it has a 2.2 gain and to me that sounds way way too high. Im looking for a gain somewhere in the region of 0.8 - 1.2, but realistictly id prefer to have a 1.1 gain i think, on a seamless Matt White screen

Any input is appreciated

Thanks
Chris

Chris, I only had budget for one screen and since my projector has to do triple duty, including showings in rooms with ambient light when I take my films around to screen, I chose a high gain screen rather than a business grade 3000 lumen projector :)

Of course, I have nothing to compare it to, but I don't think I lost too much contrast with the screen. The fact that the image look so good on a high gain screen is impressive.

When I have more budget, I will probably replace with a matte white screen in 1.2 range myself.

It seems that the Optoma GreyHawk is recommended by many on the Sanyo Z4 thread.

It should also be great with the Panasonic.

It seems that the Optoma GreyHawk is recommended by many on the Sanyo Z4 thread.

It should also be great with the Panasonic.

It is, but it might take you a few screens to get a good one as their packaging is poor and most come with the frame dented. I'm about to go for screen #3 now.

I'm still working with calibration of different settings on the AE900, but I have to say that if you don't have calibration equipment, stick with Cinema 1 or 2. The others are too far off in color temp, gamma and greyscale IMO.

Mike, Can't wait for your settings. I am nearly readly to purchase a AE900. I previously had a 700 with a filter which I sold. I have a 90" matt white screen which I got from a friend who is a large manufacturer for professional movie theatre screens in NY. It seems to work well with the 700 and I think it should be fine with the 900 I am only waiting for a few more reviews before I pull the trigger.

Thanks for your great posts.

I have a 90" matt white screen which I got from a friend who is a large manufacturer for professional movie theatre screens in NY. It seems to work well with the 700 and I think it should be fine with the 900 I am only waiting for a few more reviews before I pull the trigger.

Thanks for your great posts.

You're welcome. I also have a 92" matte white screen behind the pull-down GreyWolf that I'm using as well. As much as I like the GreyWolf's ambient light performance and black levels, the matte white is great in a light controlled room (which I have).

Here is a review of the AE900U:

Projector Reviews Panasonic PT AE900U (http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=50)

Thanks, but that review was posted about a week ago. I am waiting for the reviews on Cine4home and Projector Central.

I'm still working with calibration of different settings on the AE900, but I have to say that if you don't have calibration equipment, stick with Cinema 1 or 2. The others are too far off in color temp, gamma and greyscale IMO.

So the Normal mode requires quite a bit of calibration. Are you getting any feeling as to whether or not the Normal mode has the potential for significantly greater light output as compared to Cinema 1?

It is, but it might take you a few screens to get a good one as their packaging is poor and most come with the frame dented. I'm about to go for screen #3 now.

I'm still working with calibration of different settings on the AE900, but I have to say that if you don't have calibration equipment, stick with Cinema 1 or 2. The others are too far off in color temp, gamma and greyscale IMO.
So far I prefer Cinema2 to Cinema1 for it's slightly brighter image, not much but just enough. Also not much of a difference between low lamp and high lamp, so I use low.
Compared to the 700, I see the 900 as a 700 done right!

dc

I think a good screen match for this projector would be the Cinema Vision by da-lite, as opposed to the High Contrast Cinema Vision. My conern with the HCCV is the picture may loose some of it's punch.

My original LCD proj. was the Sanyo PLV-60, which was very bright. I paired that with the HCCV screen material. Very good combo because the it's such a bright projector, I didn't miss toning down the brightest to gain in contrast and blacks.

When I went to the Yamaha LPX-510, the image was way too dark in the typical cinema modes used for better blacks combined with the HCCV screen material. So I changed the screen material to the CV and was very happy with the results. I still had solid blacks, but didn't loose the punch of the color/brightness....alowing me to use the cinema black modes from the proj.

Ron

Interesting...I have the Epson Cinema 500 with a HCCV screen and dont find the image to be way too dark and I have it in cinema black setting.

I can look through the manual later, but does anybody know if the AE900 will modulate the lamp if you put it on high? I haven't followed whether they dropped the lamp modulation now that they have the dynamic iris with the bigger range.

--Darin

The VB, is very noticealbe on the DALITE HIGH POWER, (2.8 GAIN)with the PANY floor mounted. My best guess is I am getting something like 2, to 2.5 gain, in that location. Is very noticeable on light backgrounds. Not so much during pans, but just a very bright , light, back ground, you can see it. Having just said this, I can see how some might say it is so slight, why worry about it,etc. however when your used to viewing other projectors that do not have this issue, well one does worry. I do have to say last night, i sensed I wasnt seeing the VB, as bad as the first night, nor, quite as bad as when I first turned it on last night. Seems to me, I remember some posts on the long 700 thread that a lot of those who saw these issues with a new 700, didn't notice it as much, after the projector started to get some hours on it. Anyway, perhaps that is what I am experiencing at the moment. To put this in clear perspective, the VB, I am seeing is not so bad that you are constantly taken out enjoying what ever is on at the time. It's kind of just "vaguely" there.

Also need to add, the overall quailty of this unit, is quite good, even with the VB, I am currently seeing. Overall "look" of this unit is very pleasing, and I would say at this early stage, the ability to go to "BLACK", is about on a par with the SONY HS51. Unit does need some calibration however. Out of the box and with CINEMA 2 being used, and everything on default, the black level was way to high(or not low enough,semantics?). Black bars, above and below a 2:35 film, were not even remotely dark grey, let alone something near black. They were almost a bright grey!. Had to drop the brightness down to -21, and kick contrast up to 10. At those settings, looks pretty impressive at the moment, and with excellent shadow details.Blacks still a bit to bright, however I want to play around with the gamma settings first, to see what that does.

In closing, if I can get rid of the VB this will be one "killer projector" for not to much money. I suspect when 1080P chips finally hit with the D5 chip from EPSON(probably another year or so out),and with another generation of tweaking by PANASONIC to make these projectors more uniform (READ: VB, FREE !), we will have on our hands one, very, very, sweet projector for not to much money. Of course the NE PLUS ULTRA of 1080P projectors, will still probably come from DLP, however for significant coin, to say the least .

CHEERS, TC

I would still consider taking the projector back and checking out another one if I were you. I've looked at every possible recommended scene, color field etc. and have not seen any VB with mine (and I have seen it on other projectors). Doesn't mean there's not some there somewhere, but with the general consensus leaning that way, it might be just a few units that have it.

Black level is highly dependent on your DVD player and room conditions. For example, with an Oppo DVD player over HDMI and using Avia Pro, I get Brightness at +9 and Contrast at +2 for Cinema 2, only slightly different for Cinema 1.

Anyway, thanks for your comments. Maybe you could repost them on the main AE900 thread so we can keep eveything to one thread.

Not a handshake issue, as three other units have no problem hand shaking. I too was some what surprised at the VB, as all the buzz on this new unit was around the fact that they have all but eliminated the VB. Perhaps my unit is just an anomoly. My older Z3 , and SONY HS51 have no such issues. Unit going back tomorrow, however just thought if any one new how to get into the service menu, perhaps I coud have a go at fixing that issue.

CHEERS, TC

How long is the HDMI cable? Try a short one to test. I've had all sorts of problems with projectors drawing power vs devices sending power, plus long cables also.

Don't know for sure Darin, but the description of lamp life in HIGH mode with the DI on or off is the same as the AE700 (longer with DI on), so that leads me to believe they're still doing some modulation on HIGH with the 900.

Don't know for sure Darin, but the description of lamp life in HIGH mode with the DI on or off is the same as the AE700 (longer with DI on), so that leads me to believe they're still doing some modulation on HIGH with the 900.

I have tried turning the lamp onto HIGH before and noticed that the brightness didn't really change, so I turned it back off. Maybe it is simply because the lamp didn't modulate into the higher brightness mode. I'll have to look into this more, but using the high lamp mode with modulation would be nice when I use a filter to cut the black level.

It;s not the hdmi cable, as I get hand shake with 3 other projectors,using same cable.

CHEERS, TC
PS will be getting a second unit to try this Friday,so should be interesting to see if the VB is gone on the new one.

Here is a review of the AE900U:

Projector Reviews Panasonic PT AE900U (http://www.projectorreviews.com/review.asp?reid=50)

WOW! In the screen shots I liked the Panasonic better than the more expensive DLP projector in every case. The DLP seemed to lose detail due to lack of color saturation. The difference reminded me of the recently posted comparison screen shots of 35mm film vs. DLP.

Looks like the Panasonic is a real bargain! :) :) :) :) :)

IB

For those that have their AE900's, what does the aspect ratio button do? ie: does it vertically stretch a letterboxed 2.35:1 movie for the oh so popular CIH setups?

I have noticed zero VB as well with my 900.
What were you watching when you noticed the VB?
Also does anybody here know how to get into the service menu?

dc

That doesn't mean the new Pany does draw the signal as well. A good test is to run a short cable to be sure. It would be rare that the digital input on the PJ is down.

Gotta 6' cable? better test it incase the new one acts the same way.

Also does anybody here know how to get into the service menu?

dc

In the regular menu, go to "Option", then highlight "OSD". Push and hold the "Enter" button down for a few seconds until a new menu appears.

MIKESRC

Does the 900 service menu have a flicker adjustment menu?

THANKS, TC

MIKESRC

Does the 900 service menu have a flicker adjustment menu?

THANKS, TC

Yes, it does. If I recall correctly, the default setting is 15.

Can somebody give me an answer on this ??? Thanks.


I have a DVI/DVI cable inside the wall. But if I put DVI-to-HDMI adaptors on both ends, does it make the cable HDMI, n can I get 10-bit signal across ???

:confused:

I have a DVI/DVI cable inside the wall. But if I put DVI-to-HDMI adaptors on both ends, does it make the cable HDMI, n can I get 10-bit signal across ???

:confused:
I can't give you a 100%, bet-my-life guarantee, but as far as getting the 10 bit YUV signal across and the source device not having to convert to 8 bit RGB, I believe adding those adapters would do the trick. I'm not sure how audio is passed over HDMI so you might not get that (and probably don't care), but I think you could avoid the 8-bit RGB conversion before the projector this way. The main reason I believe this is the case is because the kind of signals that can be sent are mostly related to the outputs and inputs of the respective devices. So, the projector should respond to the source letting it know that it can take the digital component type signals since it has an HDMI input and the source should be able to send those given that it has an HDMI output. I don't believe the physical differences between the HDMI and DVI cables have anything to do with YUV vs RGB limitations.

--Darin

MIKESRC

DO you recall if you can set the color space on the 900 to match up with either a hi def source, and one for SD , and finally, can you set the remote to a different ir frequency, so one could have two of the 900's in the same room, however each one independently controlled?

THANKS, TC

My ae900u is in the mail. Please explain to me the significance/advantages/disadvantages of the cable types. I have no idea.

Component
S-video
HDMI
DVI

Also I read mention of cable length. My throw is over 20' so my cables must be over 25' through ceilings and walls. What problem does that present.

Thanks guys.

In order for native 1280x720 to look correct over HDMI, you have to turn off an "OVERSCAN" option that can be found in the menus someplace.

Is this related to imputs from a HTPC only, or is this in general when using a DVD player with HDMI to the projector?

Also, back to screens. My requirements have now changed since im now embarking down the route of figuring out a way to mount two legs onto a Da-Lite Perm-Wall fixed screen. Im still not sure what screen surface to get.

Should i get the Cinema Vision 1.3, the High Contrast Cinema Vision 1.1, the Da-Mat 1.0 or HC Da-Mat, the Matte White 1.0 , the High Contrast Matte White 1.1, or the High Power screen with a gain of 2.8.

Generally my room will be fully darkened, but im currently using a cheap grey screen and the blacks arent amazing, but not rubbish either with my AE500. I want a really good picture with a really good contrast. The Projector will be table mounted, as will the Fixed screen lol so hopefully it will nearly be pointing directly at the centre.

Cheers
Chris

I had an AE700 for the past year and was very happy with it except for the Vertical Banding - or at least what I think is vertical banding. Maybe it's really FPN.

Before my AE700, I had one of the first generation 720p projectors in the Toshiba TLP-MT7. I loved that projector and no VP or FPN at all. But of course, contrast and black level were no where near what the AE700 offered.

This week, I went for the AE900 in hopes of eliminating the only flaw with the 700. But my experience has been like Mr. Jazz. I still see the faint banding in light scenes, especially in scenes that pan across the sky. Is this VB or FPN ?

For those of you that say you can't see any VB at all, I really wish I could watch side-by-side with you because it's hard to believe my luck of the draw got me 2 projectors with VB. Maybe I'm just more sensitive to it - I don't know.

Anyway, I did the flicker test and saw no noticable improvement. The AE900 also has another menu item down from the Flicker Adjustment called Panel. I played around with this for a while but didn't see any noticable difference.

All in all, the 900 does throw a noticably better overall picture than the 700. My wife even noticed. But VB still annoys me. I can return the projector but I can't put more than 1h hour on the bulb. Not sure what to do. I thought I've read that the Panasonic engineers specifically targeted this problem in the AE900 and even offered more options for tweaking. It would be nice if there was someone who saw vb/fpn on the 900 and was able to eliminate it.

I can't give you a 100%, bet-my-life guarantee, but as far as getting the 10 bit YUV signal across and the source device not having to convert to 8 bit RGB, I believe adding those adapters would do the trick. I'm not sure how audio is passed over HDMI so you might not get that (and probably don't care), but I think you could avoid the 8-bit RGB conversion before the projector this way. The main reason I believe this is the case is because the kind of signals that can be sent are mostly related to the outputs and inputs of the respective devices. So, the projector should respond to the source letting it know that it can take the digital component type signals since it has an HDMI input and the source should be able to send those given that it has an HDMI output. I don't believe the physical differences between the HDMI and DVI cables have anything to do with YUV vs RGB limitations.

--Darin

Thanks for your info. Then I don't have to pull my DVI/DVI cable inside the wall to replace it with HDMI/HDMI cable. I don't care about the audio signal thru HDMI, but worry about somebody in this thread said, 8-bit color tends to induce VB more than 10-bit color.

New tricks, the best possible cable to use with this projector, I have found, is HDMI. You can also use a DVI to HDMI adaptor if the output on your cable box is DVI HDMI is pure digital and is great with an upscailing player or an HD transmission. Cable is also good and would be the number two choice if you don't have a digital connection. I would not use S Video the picture will not be as good with this projector. You can run about 25' max with HDMI.

"Cable is also good"
..............
I'm sure you mean "component" would be the number two choice. :)

I have noticed zero VB as well with my 900.
What were you watching when you noticed the VB?
Also does anybody here know how to get into the service menu?

dc

Look at any scene with a light blue sky. On both my AE700 and now my AE900, I see faint but noticable vertical streaks. Don't know if this is VB or FPN but it's annoying and looks worse if the camera pans when a light scene is displayed.

I was REALLY hoping that VB would be eliminated on the 900. I previously lived with a 720p Toshiba TLP-MT7 for 2 years and never saw even a hint of this vertical streaking.

I don't know if I should keep this unit or try something else. I'm really nervous about DLP because if I'm this sensitive to vertical streaking, I feel sure DLP is going to give me rainbow headaches.

Interesting. I didn't know there was such a difference between HDMI and DVI (10 bits YUV vs 8 bits RGB)
How would you do with an HTPC to get the better format ? Are there display cards that let you output a 10 bits YUV signal from the DVI output ?

"I'm this sensitive to vertical streaking, I feel sure DLP is going to give me rainbow headaches. "

Completely unrelated to each other.

I'm really nervous about DLP because if I'm this sensitive to vertical streaking, I feel sure DLP is going to give me rainbow headaches.

As NoahKatz said, the problems are two completely different things. VB is a difference in color or shading. Rainbows is a problem with people who don't have as good persistence of vision as most other people.

I have had literally dozens of people over to watch movies on my DL500 DreamVision, a first generation DLP projector with a 1X color wheel. Nobody ever complained about getting headaches, nor did anybody mention they saw rainbows.

I can see rainbows, but only if I am looking for them on purpose. I've never gotten a headache watching my projector, even after an entire day of viewing all three extended editions of Lord of the Rings.

The thing is, you know about the problem, and it seems you've worked yourself up over it. So there could be a placebo effect headache. And I do believe that a lot, not all, but a lot of DLP rainbow or headache complaints are placebo effects from people who are such videophiles that they know absolutely everything, good and bad, about all the technologies, and they psych themselves into having problems. If you are watching something with the knowledge that the display might give you a headache, and you are constantly asking yourself "Am I getting a headache?" then I would bet that you would get a headache - because you psyched yourself into it.

If you're really truly worried about it, go to a HT store and watch a DLP projector for a couple hours. I suppose you could even simply watch a DLP rear projection unit and get the same result. And don't be scrutinizing the display. Just enjoy whatever material is being presented. If you're asking yourself "do I see rainbows? Am I getting a headache?" then you will probably have problems. If you get absorbed into watching and enjoying the material, you probably won't notice any adverse reactions other than the slight blue glow your skin will get from all the gamma radiation present in DLP projection systems.

So far I prefer Cinema2 to Cinema1 for it's slightly brighter image, not much but just enough. Also not much of a difference between low lamp and high lamp, so I use low.
Compared to the 700, I see the 900 as a 700 done right!

dc

I prefer Cinema2 as well - blues seem more at accurate levels and Cinema1 is a little red compared to my calibrated CRT.

Look at any scene with a light blue sky. On both my AE700 and now my AE900, I see faint but noticable vertical streaks. Don't know if this is VB or FPN but it's annoying and looks worse if the camera pans when a light scene is displayed.


I just watched a bunch of HD Clips via VGA, both 720 and 1080p including Microsoft demos with lots of light blue backgrounds and skies and saw nothing of the sort. Can someone photograph VB on AE700 or AE900 so I can look for it?

HD stuff looked amazing - only artifacts I saw were in the source (confirmed as I was running on my 22" NEC CRT computer monitor at the same time. I could see the film grain on IMAX clips. Impressive.

In fact, during a couple of very challenging clips, I have to say the AE900 did better than the CRT for patterns of very fine lines. CRT still looked better for very deep blacks, but I'm running right now on Insta-Theater with high gain.

[quote]…people who don't have as good persistence of vision as most other people…

…If you are watching something with the knowledge that the display might give you a headache, and you are constantly asking yourself "Am I getting a headache?" then I would bet that you would get a headache - because you psyched yourself into it.
[quote]

Isnt it more to do with the opposite - ie: people with a higher persistance (for search of a better word) of vision are more likely to see Rainbow...

Also, i think you're way off the mark with thinking that people who go out thinking they may get a sore head are from watching a DLP will get one. I went with 3 people to view a Sim2 DLP projector with a 6 segment 5x colour wheel. One had epilepsy and the other two didnt. I didnt mention anything to them about the problems with DLP. My girlfriend with Epilepsy immediately got a very sore head which lasted a good few hours and was unable to continue watching. One of the others complained that it made their eyes sore and the middle of their head. Myself (who was looking for Rainbow, VB and eye strain) felt nothing whatsoever, and neither did the other person who who new nothing about DLP and the potential problems.

Chris

...One other thing. Im really really struggling to pick a screen for my PT-AE900.

I aim to get it in about 73-77" diagonal 16:9 Fixed screen with black border. So far the Da-Lite Perm Wall frame is my favourite. The projector will probably only be just over 2 metres from the screen, mounted on a table of a similar height to the centre of the screen. The room will almost mostly be completely dark, and even during the day, i am going to invest in some black-out blinds. I have narrowed down the screens that i think i would to the following:

1). Cinema Vision - Gain 1.3
2). High Contrast Matte White - Gain 1.1
3). High Contrast Cinema Vision - Gain 1.1

My concern is that Cinema Vision is more for CRT projectors with a lower lumen output. My Panasonic will be run in eco lamp mode, with the best contrast i can get. Im not really sure of the difference between 2 and 3, both have the same gain, but which ones will be bright and give me a good contrast ratio?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Chris

The VB, is very noticealbe on the DALITE HIGH POWER, (2.8 GAIN)with the PANY floor mounted. My best guess is I am getting something like 2, to 2.5 gain, in that location. Is very noticeable on light backgrounds. Not so much during pans, but just a very bright , light, back ground, you can see it. (..........)
To put this in clear perspective, the VB, I am seeing is not so bad that you are constantly taken out enjoying what ever is on at the time. It's kind of just "vaguely" there.

Also need to add, the overall quailty of this unit, is quite good, even with the VB, I am currently seeing. Overall "look" of this unit is very pleasing, and I would say at this early stage, the ability to go to "BLACK", is about on a par with the SONY HS51. Unit does need some calibration however. Out of the box and with CINEMA 2 being used, and everything on default, the black level was way to high(or not low enough,semantics?). Black bars, above and below a 2:35 film, were not even remotely dark grey, let alone something near black. They were almost a bright grey!. Had to drop the brightness down to -21, and kick contrast up to 10. At those settings, looks pretty impressive at the moment, and with excellent shadow details.Blacks still a bit to bright, however I want to play around with the gamma settings first, to see what that does.

In closing, if I can get rid of the VB this will be one "killer projector" for not to much money. I suspect when 1080P chips finally hit with the D5 chip from EPSON(probably another year or so out),and with another generation of tweaking by PANASONIC to make these projectors more uniform (READ: VB, FREE !), we will have on our hands one, very, very, sweet projector for not to much money. Of course the NE PLUS ULTRA of 1080P projectors, will still probably come from DLP, however for significant coin, to say the least .

CHEERS, TC

I was just wondering, being relatively inexperienced with different screen types, if the 2.8 gain has an effect on the artefacts that you are describing.

- Isn't it more difficult to obtain good black levels on a high gain screen?

- And, if this is true, isn't it likely that VB is more present, given the fact that VB seems to manifest itself (more) on Light scenes/background?

Of course, even if I would be correct in these assumptions, the latter still doesn't mean that the/your Panny is free from VB. Hopefully you can get rid of the VB (either by calibration or swapping).

How are dust issues addressed with the Panasonic 900? Does the unit need to be sent in for service, or can cleaning be done at home? The Z4 seems to have the advantage, but I haven't heard many complaints from Panasonic owners. Is this feature over rated on the Z4?

[quote]…people who don't have as good persistence of vision as most other people…

…If you are watching something with the knowledge that the display might give you a headache, and you are constantly asking yourself "Am I getting a headache?" then I would bet that you would get a headache - because you psyched yourself into it.
[quote]

Isnt it more to do with the opposite - ie: people with a higher persistance (for search of a better word) of vision are more likely to see Rainbow...

Also, i think you're way off the mark with thinking that people who go out thinking they may get a sore head are from watching a DLP will get one. I went with 3 people to view a Sim2 DLP projector with a 6 segment 5x colour wheel. One had epilepsy and the other two didnt. I didnt mention anything to them about the problems with DLP. My girlfriend with Epilepsy immediately got a very sore head which lasted a good few hours and was unable to continue watching. One of the others complained that it made their eyes sore and the middle of their head. Myself (who was looking for Rainbow, VB and eye strain) felt nothing whatsoever, and neither did the other person who who new nothing about DLP and the potential problems.

Chris

I have to agree that he was off the mark for the vast majority of people with problems. I'm sure there are some people that talk themselves into a headache, but that's not my experience with over 3 years worth of company watching our DLP (4x color wheel).

Sorry off topic. :)

Back on topic, my 900 should be here by Monday!!! For now, I will read everyword written here (several times over). :D

Hi guys!

Didn't post for quite sometime. Some big news about Panny 900? I'm not sure. First one is a claim about 5500:1 contrast. Same thing happpened with Sony HS50/51 and their claim to fame of 5000:1. Now, I have seen many DLP machines that claim less than 2000:1 with clearly better contrast, especially much darker "blacks". Even if you compare with previous model of Panny 700 with 2000:1, nobody on this planet can convince me that new 900 has 2 and 1/2 times higher contrast. I'm just really wondering what the hell are these numbers representing.

Second thing is I am a dealer so just out my own curiosity I took two brand new PJ's 700 and 900 out of the box, hooked up HD box and HDMI DVD player to both of them (identical sources) and used 120" Firehawk screen. Spent about 5 minutes going through THX disc on both of them and compared. If you think that 900 is worth upgrading from 700, you've gotta be kidding. For anybody who wants to upgrade I suggest to try their 700's with the new bulb first. Maybe some people forgot what their 700's look like when they were new? I'm just not sure.

Maybe you just like a new "sexier" menus or a learning remote...

NewTricks

I sent you a PM but to answer your question. 134" diagonal picture looks awesome in HD and DVD. When I test the SD Channels, they were broadcast in 4:3 and the picture was very nice with no overflow of light outside the picture. Everything was crisp. We played with the zoom to see if picture would change, especially on SD channels and there was no change to the 10 of us. Go as big as you can.

Thanks for the impressions. Does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

Thanks for the impressions. Does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

What screen material are you using or are you just going with The Wall brand screen?

Hi guys!

Didn't post for quite sometime. Some big news about Panny 900? I'm not sure. First one is a claim about 5500:1 contrast. Same thing happpened with Sony HS50/51 and their claim to fame of 5000:1. Now, I have seen many DLP machines that claim less than 2000:1 with clearly better contrast, especially much darker "blacks". Even if you compare with previous model of Panny 700 with 2000:1, nobody on this planet can convince me that new 900 has 2 and 1/2 times higher contrast. I'm just really wondering what the hell are these numbers representing.

Second thing is I am a dealer so just out my own curiosity I took two brand new PJ's 700 and 900 out of the box, hooked up HD box and HDMI DVD player to both of them (identical sources) and used 120" Firehawk screen. Spent about 5 minutes going through THX disc on both of them and compared. If you think that 900 is worth upgrading from 700, you've gotta be kidding. For anybody who wants to upgrade I suggest to try their 700's with the new bulb first. Maybe some people forgot what their 700's look like when they were new? I'm just not sure.

Maybe you just like a new "sexier" menus or a learning remote...


Well, you're one of the few who think that i believe. Most of the reviews have been very positive about the Panasonic PT-AE900, and the price isnt that much more than the price of a new AE700. Im upgrading from an AE500 to the 900 so the difference will be amazing for me (as well as getting a new decent screen). However, most believe that the upgrade from the 700 to the 900 is worthwhile and that the image quality is much better than the 700.

Can you take photos of the two side by side for our reference?

Thanks
Chris

P.S. Is the Panasonic not being released in the UK until the 14th October. That seems to be the dates people are throwing back at me. Thanks

Hi guys!

Didn't post for quite sometime. Some big news about Panny 900? I'm not sure. First one is a claim about 5500:1 contrast. Same thing happpened with Sony HS50/51 and their claim to fame of 5000:1. Now, I have seen many DLP machines that claim less than 2000:1 with clearly better contrast, especially much darker "blacks". Even if you compare with previous model of Panny 700 with 2000:1, nobody on this planet can convince me that new 900 has 2 and 1/2 times higher contrast. I'm just really wondering what the hell are these numbers representing.

Second thing is I am a dealer so just out my own curiosity I took two brand new PJ's 700 and 900 out of the box, hooked up HD box and HDMI DVD player to both of them (identical sources) and used 120" Firehawk screen. Spent about 5 minutes going through THX disc on both of them and compared. If you think that 900 is worth upgrading from 700, you've gotta be kidding. For anybody who wants to upgrade I suggest to try their 700's with the new bulb first. Maybe some people forgot what their 700's look like when they were new? I'm just not sure.

Maybe you just like a new "sexier" menus or a learning remote...

Any chance you could calibrate them both to D65 with correct gamma and compare then?

Hi guys!

Didn't post for quite sometime. Some big news about Panny 900? I'm not sure. First one is a claim about 5500:1 contrast. Same thing happpened with Sony HS50/51 and their claim to fame of 5000:1. Now, I have seen many DLP machines that claim less than 2000:1 with clearly better contrast, especially much darker "blacks". Even if you compare with previous model of Panny 700 with 2000:1, nobody on this planet can convince me that new 900 has 2 and 1/2 times higher contrast. I'm just really wondering what the hell are these numbers representing.

Second thing is I am a dealer so just out my own curiosity I took two brand new PJ's 700 and 900 out of the box, hooked up HD box and HDMI DVD player to both of them (identical sources) and used 120" Firehawk screen. Spent about 5 minutes going through THX disc on both of them and compared. If you think that 900 is worth upgrading from 700, you've gotta be kidding. For anybody who wants to upgrade I suggest to try their 700's with the new bulb first. Maybe some people forgot what their 700's look like when they were new? I'm just not sure.

Maybe you just like a new "sexier" menus or a learning remote...


How about some side by side pictures of the two projecting from the same source? As a dealer this should be remarkably easy for you, you already have two out of the box, and it would actually contribute to the discussion. Don't worry about pictures not showing actual projection quality - we're just looking for differences, so they will still show up.

Maybe it's me, but it sure is funny how he always puts a negative spin on just about every projector he has commented on in other threads. Maybe I'm having one of those overly sensitive days :)

I prefer Cinema2 as well - blues seem more at accurate levels and Cinema1 is a little red compared to my calibrated CRT.

Actually, using calibration equipment, Cinema 2 has too little red and the color temp is too high at around 7000K. Both Cinema 1 and 2 have too much green right out of the box as well.

1. Cinema Vision - Gain 1.3
2). High Contrast Matte White - Gain 1.1
3). High Contrast Cinema Vision - Gain 1.1

My concern is that Cinema Vision is more for CRT projectors with a lower lumen output. My Panasonic will be run in eco lamp mode, with the best contrast i can get. Im not really sure of the difference between 2 and 3, both have the same gain, but which ones will be bright and give me a good contrast ratio?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Chris

Of the three, I prefer the HCCV for the deepest blacks. It's essentialy a grey base version of the CV, which accounts for the small drop in gain. Both it and the CV have a sheen to them that some people do not like. The HCMW is not a bad choice either. It's more of a grey/silver compared to the light grey of the HCCV, but the HCCV has a smoother surface. None of the ones you're considering will be particularly bright (no more so than plain matte white).

That probably didn't help you much, but it's tough to say which you'd like best. If you have good light control, I would go with the HCCV for the best blacks.

I should be able to make the room very dark (pitch black). In the evenings, when i tend to use it, it is dark anyway, but im getting black-out blinds soon also. Im not too concerned on the brightness as i am only projecting on to a 77" screen from around 8 feet. I do like the idea of better blacks, so the HCCV or the HCMW would be my two favourites since hey sound very similar.

What do you mean by a Sheen of them. Is this something you would notice when viewing it in the dark?

Thanks
Chris

Actually, using calibration equipment, Cinema 2 has too little red and the color temp is too high at around 7000K. Both Cinema 1 and 2 have too much green right out of the box as well.

What equipment? I was just eyeballing it, so it's quite possible, but if you come up with settings you like better, can you please post?

Cinema2 does match my NTSC broadcast monitor better, though it's setup to match well with my DVX100a camera which uses custom gamma curves.

I took a look at SMTPE color bars and out of to box, the AE900 is pretty amazing well done in the factory - for 98% of buyers, I really don't think much tweaking is needed.

Hi guys!

Didn't post for quite sometime. Some big news about Panny 900? I'm not sure. First one is a claim about 5500:1 contrast. Same thing happpened with Sony HS50/51 and their claim to fame of 5000:1. Now, I have seen many DLP machines that claim less than 2000:1 with clearly better contrast, especially much darker "blacks". Even if you compare with previous model of Panny 700 with 2000:1, nobody on this planet can convince me that new 900 has 2 and 1/2 times higher contrast. I'm just really wondering what the hell are these numbers representing.

Second thing is I am a dealer so just out my own curiosity I took two brand new PJ's 700 and 900 out of the box, hooked up HD box and HDMI DVD player to both of them (identical sources) and used 120" Firehawk screen. Spent about 5 minutes going through THX disc on both of them and compared. If you think that 900 is worth upgrading from 700, you've gotta be kidding. For anybody who wants to upgrade I suggest to try their 700's with the new bulb first. Maybe some people forgot what their 700's look like when they were new? I'm just not sure.

Maybe you just like a new "sexier" menus or a learning remote...


3D Quadrium, you should really try to tell us how you truly feel and quite trying to beat around the bush about your feelings. :D They say letting out all that anger will make you less tense. :D
I do have a couple of questions:

1. So you feel the picture on the AE-700 was just as crisp as the AE-900?
I am asking because others are stating that the smoothscreen on the new 900 seems to make the picture much more crisp than the older 700.

2. What projectors do you sell? Not trying to be smart... just curious. :)

Craig

What equipment? I was just eyeballing it, so it's quite possible, but if you come up with settings you like better, can you please post?


I've mentioned it a few times in previous posts, but I do calibrations using OpticOne and Avia Pro. I reported some results previously on this thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6297872&&#post6297872). I'm still tweaking it a little, but I'll post some settings when I'm done.

Cinema 1 is the closest to 6500K and has the best gamma tracking as well. Cinema 2 is the second best right out of the box. Either one is a good choice if you don't have the ability to calibrate it.

I've mentioned it a few times in previous posts, but I do calibrations using OpticOne and Avia Pro. I reported some results previously on this thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6297872&&#post6297872). I'm still tweaking it a little, but I'll post some settings when I'm done.

Cinema 1 is the closest to 6500K and has the best gamma tracking as well. Cinema 2 is the second best right out of the box. Either one is a good choice if you don't have the ability to calibrate it.

Thanks, I will be interested to give those a try.

I hunted around here for some VB images:

VB Images (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6163819&&#post6163819)

and I have not seen anything like that on my AE-900. The only "banding" I have seen has been 100% present in source material. In fact the AE-900 in every piece of footage I have looked at minimizes artifacts present in source or leaves them neutral.

I wonder how many people that see VB & FPN confirm on a calibrated CRT display that the issues they are seeing is not in source?

It almost seem like some rules for issues like rainbows, VB, and FPN should have some basic requirements (visual, source verification) before being reported on a projector since the many possibilities for error and confusion exist.

"Wow, I didn't realize things would get this bad so soon."

I don't get it. I just checked ebay completed auctions, and the very cheapest went for $1400.

My thoughts exactly. No way in hell I'd pay that much for a used PJ when I could get the AE900 for only a few hundred more.

. Some big news about Panny 900? I'm not sure. First one is a claim about 5500:1 contrast. Same thing happpened with Sony HS50/51 and their claim to fame of 5000:1. Now, I have seen many DLP machines that claim less than 2000:1 with clearly better contrast, especially much darker "blacks". Even if you compare with previous model of Panny 700 with 2000:1, nobody on this planet can convince me that new 900 has 2 and 1/2 times higher contrast. I'm just really wondering what the hell are these numbers representing.
You should keep in mind that on/off CR is not the only kind of CR (even static on/off and dynamic on/off). There is also ANSI CR. In images that are between the 4x4 checkerboard and blackouts both of them come into play. The DLPs generally have higher ANSI CR.

It does look to me like the on/off CR on the AE900 is less than advertised, at least on the one I got last night. The Panasonic guys at CEDIA measured the AE900 there at 6k:1. After quickly setting up the brightness and contrast last night I got something like 2750:1 in Normal mode and the high teens in Cinema1 mode (I have the actual numbers at home). It looks to me like a color filter should be used with the AE900 to get the best CR since the red was pretty low in Normal mode. I ended up trying a CC30R combined with a CC10Y and Dynamic mode. I didn't measure the CR there, but it was probably higher than Normal mode because the peak white before calibration was higher in Dynamic than Normal (but with less red in Dynamic at 100 IRE). Also, video black was bluish before I added the filters. After setting up this way some of the midrange stuff looked a little too red, so I believe a calibration is in order. At least the AE900 has some gamma control in the advanced menu.

Does anybody remember what color filter people were getting from 2filter.com for the HS51? I believe it was a little to the orange or salmon side, which I'm guessing would also work well with the AE900 with its color balance. It looks like a 77mm would fit on the AE900, but I don't know what size the HS51 called for.

This AE900 doesn't have any stuck or dead pixels, but it has some vertical banding. It is probably low enough that a lot of people wouldn't see it or be bothered, but it is too much for me and I'll be sending it back.

I also measured the ANSI CR. I have black velvet over most of the room and put the screen up to reduce reflections, but remembered this morning that I had placed a screen against one side wall that had a reasonably light backing. But, there shouldn't have been a lot of reflections because the screen was up with mostly dark stuff behind. I also held the meter out towards the projector a little ways for the black rectangle readings in the middle of the image to keep reflections off me from throwing the numbers off, so the ANSI CR I got could even be a hair low for what the projector can do. I have the numbers at home, but my memory is that the ANSI CR was around 340:1 and the ratio of just the 4 center rectangles (more like Greg Roger's modified ANSI CR test) was around 270:1. Those seem pretty good for an LCD.

As far as on/off CR and how fast the iris is, it was enough that for the ending of "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" where it goes from full screen bright to blackout for a second and then to the credits, I couldn't see the screen during the blackout. Since my eyes were adjusted for the bright this doesn't mean it can do other blackouts and things that fade into black still show the screen easily.

--Darin

I wonder how many people that see VB & FPN confirm on a calibrated CRT display that the issues they are seeing is not in source?

I don't know how many do that, but I do. :D

Many here use DVDs that have been previously confirmed as not having any of these issues.


It almost seem like some rules for issues like rainbows, VB, and FPN should have some basic requirements (visual, source verification) before being reported on a projector since the many possibilities for error and confusion exist.

Very true. Most creditable reviewers use specifc DVD scenes where such issues can be easily detected. Rainbows are a bit different in that they can be seen with almost any source, if you look for them. I usually put more credence in reports that mention specific scenes that can easily be checked by myself and others over a vague description of a problem. There are a number of members here (like darinp2 and others) that regularly evaluate new projectors and whose opinions are well respected.

"Rainbows is a problem with people who don't have as good persistence of vision as most other people."

If it's all the same to you, I'm going to blame the projector for the defect rather than my visual system.

It does look to me like the on/off CR on the AE900 is less than advertised, at least on the one I got last night.

I've noticed to my eye (lack any calibration gear other than Avia disk) that the AE900 "apparant" contrast which must come via DI is fantastic, especially in scenes that contain a variety of IRE levels. The only consistent times it seems to be lacking is when all the scene values are in lower IRE ranges. Then blacks are less rich but it's a low contrast scene of course. In other words, objective contrast measurements may not tell the full story of when the picture looks great and when it looks just okay.

This AE900 doesn't have any stuck or dead pixels, but it has some vertical banding. It is probably low enough that a lot of people wouldn't see it or be bothered, but it is too much for me and I'll be sending it back.

Since I see zero VB thus far - what source, input, settings did you see it on? Can you photograph before sending back?

After quickly setting up the brightness and contrast last night I got something like 2750:1 in Normal mode and the high teens in Cinema1 mode (I have the actual numbers at home).

I got around 1750:1 in Cinema 1 mode last night, so that sounds about right for the Normal mode.


It looks to me like a color filter should be used with the AE900 to get the best CR since the red was pretty low in Normal mode. I ended up trying a CC30R combined with a CC10Y and Dynamic mode. I didn't measure the CR there, but it was probably higher than Normal mode because the peak white before calibration was higher in Dynamic than Normal (but with less red in Dynamic at 100 IRE).

I agree that would be the best way to pursue it. Trying to hit the D65 target without a filter requires some drastic adjustments in Dynamic mode and even with Normal mode it's pretty extreme.

Thanks for your comments, Darin. I can't say that I've seen any VB, where I have with other LCDs, so maybe it varies by projector or maybe I'm just not seeing it. Do you have a specific scene where you've noticed it the most, no matter how little?

Since I see zero VB thus far - what source, input, settings did you see it on? Can you photograph before sending back?
I don't know if I am going to turn it on again before sending it back and I don't have the best camera for this. But I might try.

The first one that comes to mind is the opening of "The Day After Tomorrow" with the shots across the ice field. There were some sky scenes like from an IMAX movie and others where I saw it too. I believe early on in "Battle of the Bulge" and then all the fog in the first 15 minutes or so of an HD version of "Bladerunner". I didn't see it on most scenes, but there were quite a few were I did.

I can't say that I've seen any VB, where I have with other LCDs, so maybe it varies by projector or maybe I'm just not seeing it. Do you have a specific scene where you've noticed it the most, no matter how little?
Since you've seen it on other LCDs it sounds like you know what it is. For other people, it might be better to be oblivious for a while. I think I may have started the big uproar about VB on this forum about 2 years ago when I reported seeing it on the AE500. Lots of people who hadn't seen it before all of sudden started being bothered by it. One person reported that they hadn't seen any on their AE300 and after they went looking for it they couldn't stop seeing it. I've always been bothered by it (other than Sony units that seem to be among the cleanest for VB to me) and so I want manufacturers to continue addressing it, but for others who haven't seen it I think it might be best to not going looking for it in the most difficult scenes.

--Darin

Am i to understand that you recommend using the PT-AE900 with a filter attached to it for viewing? Is this something you do for a test or a filter that can be used all the time for watching movies.

Im reading along fascinated with all the info and i eagerly await my Panny on the 15th October, so, should i be ordering a screw in 77mm filter of some kind as well?

Thanks
Chris

Am i to understand that you recommend using the PT-AE900 with a filter attached to it for viewing? Is this something you do for a test or a filter that can be used all the time for watching movies.

Im reading along fascinated with all the info and i eagerly await my Panny on the 15th October, so, should i be ordering a screw in 77mm filter of some kind as well?

I wouldn't recommend ordering one until this all gets washed out by people with measuring equipment, but I do think those setting up for most home theater enviroments would do best with a filter once the best ones are figured out. This is mostly to get better CR and also help with the bluish blacks (at least on this AE900). But, if somebody has lights on or really needs extra lumens then a filter might not be the best choice. Those who watch in the dark and also with lights on or coming in may do best by having a setup with a filter for lights off and then without a filter for lights on. Like for the Superbowl where extra lumens might be more important than color balance or more CR from the projector (since extra lumens are the best way to retain CR in the images with lights on).

--Darin

Since you've seen it on other LCDs it sounds like you know what it is. For other people, it might be better to be oblivious for a while.

Very true. It was the same with chroma upsampling error on DVD players. Never knew it was there until I went looking for it. However, I'm not one that's bothered by any of that stuff unless its present more than "occasionally" (like rainbows on a 2X DLP projector). It's the same with the panning artifacts many have seen on recent DLPs. I see them, but they're so minor and rare (to me), that they don't bother me. I have yet to see a projector (especially in this forum) that doesn't display some type of artifacts. It's just a matter of what bothers you personally.

Anyway, I'll take a look at the Day After Tomorrow scene.

I wonder how the B+W filter used by many with the 700 would work on the 900. Hope someone does some testing soon.

Darin,
From your initial testing, it would seem that the Normal or possibly even the Dynamic mode has the greatest potential for on-off CR and lumens provided that the projector can be calibrated for proper colour balance and gamma tracking in these modes. Did you calculate the lumens in each mode? How about with the lamp in the low and high settings? I am trying to get an idea whether or not the Panny 900 can be set up to provide sufficient lumens for my large Screen Research screen.

I wonder how the B+W filter used by many with the 700 would work on the 900. Hope someone does some testing soon.

I had used the filter with the AE700. I think changing the screen is a much better idea having tried both. I think the Optoma Graywolf is a great match in that regard since so many of these are shelf/table mounted.

I wonder how the B+W filter used by many with the 700 would work on the 900. Hope someone does some testing soon.
Do you, or anybody else, know what filter that was? Was it just a red filter (like a CC30R or CC40R), or did it have some skew toward orange or salmon? The skew that way would reduce blue a little more than green, which looks like the most ideal way to go to me at this point.


Did you calculate the lumens in each mode?
I didn't, but I have some numbers written down at home. The numbers with a filter would be lower, but in Normal mode without a filter and the lamp on high I recall averaging around 190 lux at screen level with a 90" wide image. That is 190 lumens per square meter. Going to Google and asking, "What is 90 inches in meters?" gives a response of 2.286 meters. Multiplying that by 9/16 gives 1.286 meters for the image height. Then 2.286*1.286=2.94 square meters. Multiplying that by 190 gives 560 lumens in that mode. That doesn't sound like a lot if a color filter and putting the lamp on low are going to end up at 200 lumens or so. I haven't tried low lamp mode though.


I had used the filter with the AE700. I think changing the screen is a much better idea having tried both. I think the Optoma Graywolf is a great match in that regard since so many of these are shelf/table mounted.
I can try the Graywolf I have, but it seems to have a blue push of its own, which is the opposite direction as we're trying to go with the color balance here though. But, your post does bring up a good point that might be one reason you prefer the screen change. One thing we are trying to do is improve the on/off CR. But, that will come with a loss of lumens. If you have lights on then this may hurt the on/off CR off the screen. And in a white room it may be more adventageous to use a gray screen to help retain ANSI CR than to end up making the projector dimmer and not being able to use the gray screen because the images would be too dim then. This is part of the tradeoff between ANSI CR and on/off CR in the images. Does your room have light colored walls?

If it weren't for the pattern I see on the Graywolf I would probably use it and a color filter on the AE900 in my dark room.

--Darin

If it weren't for the pattern I see on the Graywolf I would probably use it and a color filter on the AE900 in my dark room.

but didn't you just say that the graywolf is better then a filter for someone who has a non-light controlled or light walled room?

but didn't you just say that the graywolf is better then a filter for someone who has a non-light controlled or light walled room?
No, I said it would likely have better ANSI CR in a light walled room and would also likely have better on/off CR with lights on than with a filter (but might not be at D65). "Better ANSI CR" and "Better" are not the same thing. The ANSI CR is just one parameter. The Graywolf has a kind of gray and white splotchy pattern to it that some will see and some won't. Because it is cheap I can overlook it somewhat, but it is still there.

--Darin

This was the filter that was used by the majority of people on the AE700
We also started with Brad Bissell's settings on the AE700 filter thread.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=11126&is=REG

Settings for AE700

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5416909#post5416909

Do you, or anybody else, know what filter that was? Was it just a red filter (like a CC30R or CC40R), or did it have some skew toward orange or salmon? The skew that way would reduce blue a little more than green, which looks like the most ideal way to go to me at this point.



I ordered a 77mm 81EF Warming filter from B&W.
The filter was also known as a 77mm KR6.

Hope that helps.
I bet these filters work just as well with the AE-900 as they did on the AE-700. For the most part, it sounds like not much has changed between the two units. But like someone else said, we will have to wait and see what users com up with that have the proper experience and equipment.

Craig

Its here!!! My first projector, Looks great so far..but im going it such injustice by using composite cables as component, and shooting onto a dull gray cinder block wall. Cant wait to get to work on a light fusion screen. Then, Im going to paint the room a darker absorpent color, and install a heavy set of curtains to block out the window.

From a 19" tv with only an antenna in, to a panny 900...its nice to finally be able to use surround sound for more than a radio.

Next up, Hi-Def Dish Network install...

Thanks Darin, i will of course keep viewing this thread, but i wont purchase until someone confirms that it will be a good edition to the Panny.

Thanks
Chris




I wouldn't recommend ordering one until this all gets washed out by people with measuring equipment, but I do think those setting up for most home theater enviroments would do best with a filter once the best ones are figured out. This is mostly to get better CR and also help with the bluish blacks (at least on this AE900). But, if somebody has lights on or really needs extra lumens then a filter might not be the best choice. Those who watch in the dark and also with lights on or coming in may do best by having a setup with a filter for lights off and then without a filter for lights on. Like for the Superbowl where extra lumens might be more important than color balance or more CR from the projector (since extra lumens are the best way to retain CR in the images with lights on).

--Darin