I just picked up a brand new ES20 today after deliberations between the ES10/ES20 and the Pioneer 220/225/233.

I have learned a lot in a short amount of time through this forum, so I figured I can contribute a little myself by posting my first hand impressions on the ES20.

I will be updating this post blog-style (adding new things as I discover them, so it will keep growing)


My experience
==========
* Please read this section so you can adjust the weight of my first impressions
* This is my first DVD recorder
* With VCRs, I am okay with the 6 hour mode. (I am not very demanding/picky on image quality)
* For this, I'm using a 20" analog TV
* I am not an expert
* Some problems may be masked because I am using entry-level components so please keep that in mind!
* I am not brave enough to open this to see what's inside :)

First Impressions - Summary
====================
* Overall I am very impressed so far it has definately exceeded expectations.


First Impressions - Hardware
============
* It feels very lightweight - listed weight is 5.6 lbs. I wouldn't put anything on top of it since its the lightest and newest of all the components i have.
* Although the user manual states that you have to connect this directly to the TV and not to a VCR because of copy protections in VCRs, it works fine when connected to a 1997 Panasonic VCR.
* Remote control does not intefere with other Panasonic VCRs (1997 and 2003 models give or take)
* Remote control is overall good, the menus are good, but a couple of spots could have been more streamlined
* Included: 1 Panasonic DVD-RAM, red/white/yellow cable, RF cable, 2 Panasonic AA batteries for the remote
* Noise Reduction is available for Line-In inputs only


First Impressions - Operations
============
* The manual states that you can Create, Erase and Delete chapters. I did not notice the "shorten title" feature but I did not read the manual cover to cover. Even without this feature, you can remove commercials by placing them in a chapter and deleting the chapter.
* Pressing PLAY will play the last recording (nice feature!)
* You can position the info bar when pressing DISPLAY at five different but overlapping spots on the screen (LOL feature)
* Fast forward and slow motion appear to be more responsive (using DVD-RAM) than the Comcast PVR
* During playback of finalized DVD-R you cannot watch TV channels or line-in sources. I guess it's a visual reminder you have a non-recordable disk in the drive. But this could be annoying if you were watching a DVD while monitoring the TV. Of course there are plenty of workarounds for this, but still...
* Pressing TIME SLIP with -R or -RW in the drive opens up a window with a silly message. This could have been handled in a simpler and more elegant fashion.


Performance
=========
* So far recorded about 60 discs, mostly -R and +R, with a handful of -RW and one DVD-RAM (multiple times and experiments). No coasters yet, only "lost" 20 minutes of disk space (see Possible Bugs #2)
* Formated brand new TDK 2x DVD-RW in about 1 minute
* Finalized Fuji 8x DVD-R with 12 min left in LP mode in about 4 minutes
* Recording is almost instanteneous (within 5 seconds) of pressing record, not only on -RAM but also on -R and -RW. Most of my recordings start with the paused screen of the PVR because I didn't think the recording would start so fast.
* Time to start recording on blank discs as well as Commercial Skip and Time Slip is faster on -R discs than +R discs. This was observed using the same Fuji +/- tri-color discs.


The recording
==========
* There are many things I would like to test, but I can't test them all at once.
* At the default settings I noticed that the reds were redder (darker Input is defaulted). When changing to lighter the colors more or less match those of the PVR. Only options are Darker and Lighter. Output Component gets a 3rd option Normal (which is default)
* It does not pickup the title automatically using the Panasonic TV tuner. The recordings title is the channel number and timestamp.


Test #1
----------
* Setup: composite-video (red/white/yellow), DVD-RAM disk, 8-hr mode, default recording settings (noise reduction = off, input/output = darker)
* I recorded a few minutes of a basketball game off the PVR (Comcast Motorola DCT xxxx) from a digital channel (ESPN Classic). This was a fast game: 1983 NCAA Final NC State - Houston (Olajuwon, Drexler, etc).
* I was expecting to see a block party but instead it was quite watchable. Of the five minutes or so that I watched there was only one instance of noticable pixelization when a player made a fast elliptical drive to the basket starting from the corner. It looked like the (unusual) move surprised the cameraman as it was the combination that perhaps results in that. I probably wouldn't use the 8hr mode to save games I'd like to watch again - but I would use it use it to fill up a disk that may have some space left.
* On playback I didn't notice any significant difference with MPEG-DNR at On or Off, but I didn't examine this thoroughly.


Test #2
----------
* Same settings at in Test #1 but the game this time was recorded on the Comcast PVR from NBA TV (digital cable channel). This was a european basketball game. The court was lighter (both in lighting and in the floor) than game #1. Also this was a 2005 game so that could also explain the slight difference. This was not bad either, but it was slightly worse than #1. Still not bad!

Test #3
----------
* Same settings as above but this time the source was a VCR (red/white/yellow), and a 2005 game recorded in the 6 hour mode on a Maxell tape. This was worse than #1 and #2, and it reminded me of recordings using my ATI TV card (purchased in 2000). It was better than the ATI card, but the players were definately digital. I would not record a game with this setup at the 8hr mode :)

Test #4
----------
* ES20 settings: 4-hour LP mode, Fuji 8x DVD-R, S-video input

* Source: Comcast PVR, three concerts recorded on the PVR, two from Showtime and one from INHD (In Demand HD channel but shows as letterbox)
* Editing: I was able to change the title and add a still of my choice as the thumbnail. No other editing choices were available (other than erase title)
* The disc finalized in 4 minutes. The disk was almost full with 12 minutes left in LP mode
* The chapters were created as expected at 5 minute intervals during Finalization. Machine asked twice if I was sure before Finalizing.
* I didn't notice any significant problems. The sound was fine and in-sync but I'm using entry-level pieces. There were some indications of picture compression on the two non-INHD concerts, but these were night/indoor concerts and had lots of lights/smoke/etc so it isn't easy to figure out.
* The INHD concert seemed to have better quality but that could be because it was at a venue with better lighting and without flashing lights and other visual effects. (INHD concert was Norah Jones and the handsome band)
* Not being able to see how much time is left per title during Playback is -annoying-. Even my ancient and silly Apex does that.
* Next step: Try playback in the ancient Apex DVD player which is allegeldy having problems with DVD-R playback. (I forgot which website I saw that)


Test #5 - Heat check
======
* After torturing this poor thing all day with recordings, different modes and different inputs I didnt notice any significant increase in temperature. It was cool to the touch on the outside from all sides, slightly warm (not hot) on the right side, and the DVD-R disk was slightly warm after about 6 hours of writing, finalizing and playback on this disk and about 9 hours of total operation. The device has a fan on the back and grills on the right side (fan side) for ventilation. I have not heard any fan noise but it is never totally quiet so I can't really tell. [CORRECTED thanks to GenChan].


Test #6 - Cosmos
======
* I recorded a couple of episodes of Carl Sagan's classic "Cosmos" that the Science channel is now showing edited with new modern-era graphics. Since I am mostly interested in the audio, I recorded this in the 6 hour mode (two DVDs will fit all 13 episodes). I noticed that the new shiny computer graphics are some losing their edge when recorded in the 6 hour mode, but it's not a big deal for me. I didn't notice any visible differences for the materials recorded in 1980 - mostly Carl Sagan walking around and talking non-stop :)


Test #7
=====
Source: Comcast PVR recorded basketball game from CSTV (digital channel)
Settings: FR mode equivalent of 5:30 on a single disc. Input Level = lighter. Noise reduction = Off
* This is probably one of the most challenging games for a DVD-recorder: 1989 Arkansas-UNLV - two fast-paced run-and-gun teams. The court had high contrast areas specifically in the paint and the sideline "banner ads", with visible jaggies along the high contrast lines. There was also digitization on some players moving very fast (2-3 second coast-to-coast drives) but it was not detracting or annoying. The five-speed slow motion worked great, more effective than any VCR for breaking down plays in slow motion. There was some smoothing/compression as expected. I was able to detect Larry Johnson even when the jersey number was obstructed. I couldn't tell whether playback MPEG-DNR made an impact or not.

***** For those of you who like to test DVD recorders on a regular basis, you may want to keep this game around as a benchmark - very few games are faster than this.


Test #8 XP vs SP vs LP vs FR (5h) vs EP (6h)
======
Source: Comcast PVR recording of a BBC America sitcom
* EP was not good. The faces were smoothed out as if the actors were wearing an invisible semi-foggy mask
* FR (5 hour mode) was a nice improvement over EP. Probably okay if just watching it once and then deleting
* LP (4 hour mode) was quite watchable and re-watchable. Not bad for archiving.
* XP and SP were better than LP, but the improvement from 6h to 4h was bigger than 4h to SP/XP. I was standing next to the TV, but I couldn't really tell the difference on my setup between the PVR source, XP and SP. Keep in mind my entry-level setup may be masking details, differences and problems.

Test #9
----------
Source: grainy/noisy 6-hr VHS tape containing South Park episodes recorded 1998-99 or so
Settings: FR mode (4:45 setting), Line-In NR = On, Input = Darker
* Results: The recording seemed to be cleaner than the source and very watchable despite the double compression.


Test #10 - updated
------------
Playback in Apex AD600A:
DVD+R: 2 out of 2 finalized Fuji 8x DVD+Rs played without problem.
DVD-R: None of the discs played but this recorder does not play DVD-Rs unless downloaded firmware are uploaded. (was not expecting them to play).

Test #11: music video
------------
Source: Comcast PVR music video from digital channel
Settings: LP mode, LineIN NR = off
* Results: This was a busy and colorful rock video. Overall I was satisfied with both the video and the audio of the recording.

Test #12: Commercial Deletion test
=======
This was relatively easy to do.
1) Start by playing back the segment you want to edit
2) Press "Create Chapter" to mark the beginning and end of each section you want to isolate. You can also press PAUSE and then Create Chapter for more precision.
3) After you finish playing/fast-forwarding and creating new chapters, you press the Navigator button. Before the Navigator shows up, the ES20 does some processign on the chapter markers and displays "please wait" on the screen for a few seconds
4) [EDITED] In Navigator, you can select the title, and then use the arrow keys to highlight the chapter(s) you want to delete and press Erase. And the chapter is gone! If you want to delete more than one chapter at a time, just mark each chapter with the PAUSE button. This adds a check-mark in the thumbnail. I did not test crossing page boundaries.

Test #13: Concert
------------
Source: Comcast PVR: Usher concert from Showtime
Settings: LP mode, LineIn NR = ON, Input = Lighter
This was a very fast paced concert with both the performers and the cameras moving around. The air was also busy with smoke, and lights and background stuff. There was visible blocking in the background, especially top left of the picture. I wanted to test with LineIn NR = Off after I saw the macroblocking but I had already deleted the source. It will probably broadcast again so I can test it then. To be continued...


FR recording mode
------------------------
* Panasonic's FR mode is great when you are putting one block of material on the tape (errrr disc!) in a single session.
* When you want to record two or more things at two or more different times, and you want a non-standard duration spread equally among the recordings, FR requires you to do some math in your head and also be around to press the STOP button when the show ends in order to force your desired rate. A feature such as Pioneer's MN is more convinient in this instance


Media tested so far
==============

DVD+R
---------
* Fuji 8x DVD+R (Made in Taiwan) tri-color 30pk (3x10)
* Fuji 8x DVD+R silver 25pk (made in taiwan)
* Philips 8x DVD+R 25pk
* Staples 8x DVD+R 50pk
* TDK 8x DVD+R - 25pk


DVD-R
--------
* Fuji 8x DVD-R (Made in Taiwan) tri-color 30pk (3x10)
* TDK 16x/8x DVD-R (made in taiwan) - disk says 16x, box says 8x - 25pk
* Verbatim 16x DVD-R (30pk)
* Sony 8x DVD-R (Made in Japan) 50pk


DVD-RW
-----------
* Office Depot 4x DVD-RW 25pk (made in taiwan)
* Sony 2x DVD-RW 25pk (made in .tw)
* TDK 2x DVD-RW 5pk in tall slim cases (Made in Taiwan)


DVD-RAM
------------
* Panasonic 3x DVD-RAM (5pk and one included with Es20)


Personal Media Recommendation
------------------------------------------
Of all the brands I have used, the only one I have reservations is the Philips +R mentioned above. I am happy with the rest.



Macroblocking Party?
===============
Let me preface this by saying that I have rarely noticed macroblocking on this device even when using FR modes up to 4hr:40min and even using 6hr VHS sources. However in this particular instance almost the whole screen became a macroblock party! The source was a comedy from BBC America (Absolutely Fabulous) recorded on a Comcast PVR and from there to the ES20 in LP mode. The scene that created the macroblock party was inside a bookstore, with rapid people and camera action while panning through shelves and shelves of books. This was the episode with Whoopi Goldberg as a guest star. To be fair to this device, I did not test the source to see if the macroblocking was actually in the source, and not introduced by the ES20. If this episode re-airs, I will make sure to re-test this and update this section. This is a probably a good test for macroblocking! I deleted the source before I could test the same with SP or XP or check to see if the macroblocking was in the source.


Annoyances
=========
* When you put an unformatted (brand new) DVD-RW in the drive it displays "Err" on the LED screen. This does not mean there's an error per say, just that the disc is unformatted. (States so in the manual). Not a very user friendly way to handle this for sure.
* You have to press Yes/Start three times (!) to format a brand new DVD-RW
* Two previous annoyances have not been fixed: when changing recording mode it is only shown on the front LED panel (but if you press STATUS twice it will dipslay the mode on the TV). The other annoyance is Time Remaining of the Title. It does tell the time remaining on the disk but not of the title.
* Display and Status buttons are placed in a row just above the row with the REC and ERASE buttons. This can be a bit awkward - trying to press STATUS without looking at the remote and you may end up pressing ERASE (it does ask for confirmation though)

Crash Log
=======
1) Recorded 30s on a brand new Fuji 8x DVD+R. Then realized I didn't have the right settings so I quickly stopped the recording and pressed Erase - I may have fat-fingered a couple of other keys along the way. The machine froze and the only way to re-activate it was to unplug/plug from the mains. Once rebooted, everything was fine, and I was able to fill up that DVD+R and finalize it. It was a strange crash but no damage done, media or programming was not lost.



Possible bugs
==========
1) The first FR mode DVD-RW that I burned had a surprise. The EP mode was at 6 hours. I created a timer recording for 3:03 FR on a blank disc. To my surprise the recording was at 3:03 hours but at the 8-hour EP mode. Playback clearly shows that the recording was done at FR. I am not sure what happened. I have not been able to reproduce it since. To be continued...

2) I started with a Fuji DVD+R and recorded two one hour episodes in 3hr FR mode (manually mimicking the equivalent of Pioneer's MN mode). Then I started recording a 3rd 1hr episode in FR mode to fill up the disc. After 38 minutes recorded, the recorder simply stopped recording. Trying to record any further said "disc full". However the device showed about 30 minutes left (LP) which was what I expected. I wasn't able to record anything else, but the disc finalized successfully and I was able to play it both on the recorder and my ancient Apex player.

3) Recorder froze during finalization of a disc. After unfreezing, I was able to finalize the disc successfully and play it. No harm.

4) Sometimes after you finish a recording on a non-RAM disc, you cannot use Time Slip or CM Skip during playback of what you just recorded. Furthermore, some of the functions typically available when you press DISPLAY button are gray'ed out. This is clearly a bug, but with a very easy workaround: Either open/close the tray or turn the machine ON/OFF. This is not a problem when waking up from a Timer or OTR recording, since the machine has already been turned off/on on its own.

5) FR recording using the Timer/Scheduler seems to have a mind of its own as to what recording quality to use. Unlike the "live" FR mode used when the machine is turned on, the Timer FR mode does not always fill up the disc, even if there is no other program is in the Timer/Scheduler. This seems to be a bug rather than a feature.

6) This is a very minor thing, but when you eject a DVD with a name, and then insert a DVD without a name, and you go in "Disk Management", the name of the previous DVD flashes on the screen for fractions of a second before it is blanked. This is probably cached somewhere in the ES20. Not a problem from a practical stand-point :-)

7) I noticed a couple of times some silliness with the Timer's FR mode when using Verbatim -R and another brand of +R which I forgot: I set up an FR recording with the Timer of something like 3hrs 20mins FR in the Timer/Scheduler. When the recording starts, the display shows that there are over 1 million hours (!!!) left. I wish the disk held that many hours :-) The show is recorded at a low quality (I'm guessing 6hr or 8hr EP). This is one more reason why I do not trust the Timer's FR mode, and wish they had a mode similar to Pioneer's MN32, where duration of the recording and quality of the recording are independent!



Wishlist
======
* It would be nice if Panasonic offered DVD-RW(VR) as well. I know they are pushing the RAM format, but it would make their dvd recorders more appealing to a bigger audience.
* Allow CM Skip and Time Slip with finalized DVDs as well
* Additional FR mode that works like Pioneer's MN32 mode.
* Ability to PAUSE a live FR mode recording. This is a MUST!!! This feature was available in the ES10 according to ES10 users. This should be added with a firmware update and Panasonic should issue a formal apology for removing it :-)


Questions?
========
* I can try and answer any questions, but please keep in mind I don't have the ability to burn discs on the PC and upload sample movies/stills. I could capture stills with my ancient ATI TV card (from 2000) but its low quality would mask the DVD output.


VCD playback
-----------------
Granted VCD playback ranks about as low as "ability to brew coffee" as far as DVD Recorder features/priorities are concerned. But since I "ran into" an old VCD (of JPEGs) I created on the computer a couple of years ago, I decided to test it out on the ES20. It played back without any problems at all, with the Skip buttons moving one image forward/backward. There is no zoom button/feature on the ES20, so can't zoom the pictures. My ancient Apex dvd player was struggling at times with this VCD.



Undocumented Features
=================
1) When you press STOP when playing a commercial DVD (DVD-Video) or finalized DVD+R/-R, you get the blue screensaver background picture instead of the tuner/input picture. I accidentally discovered that if you press STOP once more, the "screensaver" disappears and you get the picture from the tuner or input channels. Panasonic calls it "screensaver" in the manual, even though it is just a background picture.

2) This I discovered after reading the user manual for the S29 dvd player. If you press and hold the up/down arrows during TimeSlip, the time moves in increments of 10 instead of increments of 1, so you can easily get to just about any point in the disc very quickly.

3) Getting the FIRMWARE VERSION. This I discovered by mistake. You can find out your firmware version easily:
a) Press SETUP on the remote
b) Use the arrow keys on the remote to go to the menu option "Display"
c) Press the DISPLAY button on the remote control
d) Your firmware version appears for a few seconds on the screen!

My firmware version is 00000103.

Other users of Panasonic recorders have tried this (see other threads, eg EH50 thread), with or without firmware updates and they get the same version. So perhaps this is a general version number, not a detailed version number., or perhaps it does not get updated with firmware updates.



Buried deep inside the Manual
======================
1) The device wakes up at 4am (!) every day to perform scheduled maintenance according to the fineprint in the user manual. If there are any recordings planned around that time, the maintenance is not performed.

2) Frame by Frame advance while PAUSED: The ES20 manual is not as clear on how to go frame-by-frame when you PAUSE. I thought it didnt' have the feature because I couldn't find the button shown in the user manual on the remote control. After reading the manual of the Panasonic S29 dvd player, it became clear: You can use the left/right cursor keys to advance frame by frame while PAUSED. The S29 manual has a nice picture of the cursor keys so it's easy to figure it out - I looked closely at the remote, and indeed there are two tiny marks to the side of the left/right cursor keys. What confused me originally was that I was looking for a button with that sign, but the sign was actually to the side of the cursor keys. This is more of a user error but if it got me confused, it will probably confuse a couple of other people too :-)


Features I did not test
================
* DV input and DV recording
* VCR+
* 480p
* Digital audio
* Playing or using/editing DVDs created by other DVD recorders
* DVD+RW or DVD-RW(VR) playback
* playing Playlists (the ES20 cannot create Playlists)
* mp3 playback
* JPEG playback (although I did play a VCD with JPEGs)
* Recording Pay Per View, OnDemand for pay (Free OnDemand records with no problems).


======================================
Playback Feature Comparison between ES20 and S29
======================================
Since a number of people want to use their DVD recorder as their primary DVD player, I am providing a simple comparsion between the ES20 and the S29 (Panasonic DVD player at $70 or less).


Playback Advantages of the ES20
------------------------------------------
* can play unfinalized DVD+R, -R, -RW(Video) recorded with the ES20
* MPEG-NoiseReduction (ON/OFF)
* can jump to a chapter by pressing the chapter number during playback
* PIP window when using unfinalized DVDs


Playback Advantages of the S29
-----------------------------------------
* can use TimeSlip and CM Skip on finalized DVDs and commercial DVDs (DVD-Video)
* TimeSearch: can enter the exact time you want to jump to by entering the numbers (eg 3h:25 min)
* Can see how much time is remaining per title by pressing remote buttons (but not per chapter)
* Variable playback speed with sound: 0.6x to 1.4x on all kinds of DVDs (ES20 only does 1.3x on DVD-RAM)
* Zoom (center portion of the screen only)
* Five preset Picture Modes (vs 2 of the ES20)
* Quick Replay (takes you back 8-15 seconds depending on DVD/recording)
* AV Enchancer (On/Off)
* Easy access to Playback features with dedicated Remote Control buttons (zoom, speed, subtitle, picture mode, quick replay, AV enchancer, Angle, etc )
* 5 bookmarks per DVD during a session (bookmarks lost if you open tray or turn OFF)
* A-B repeat, Random playback, Program playback
* Note: some of the playback features above do not work on +R discs





Update Log
========
* Updated Media List, Playback Feature comparison with S29 DVD player
* Added "Features I did not test"
* Added "Possible Bug #6" - Disk Name Flashbacks, and #7
* Added "Buried in the Manual #2"
* Added "Undocumented Features" and "Buried in the Manual" #1
* Added "Possible Bug #5"
* Added VCD playback
* Updated Media list
* Added Wishlist, Performance, Possible Bugs #2, #3, #4
* Added "Macroblocking Party"
* Added "Crash Log"
* Added Test #12, #13
* Added "Possible Bugs", "Annoyances", "Media tests so far", Tests #9, #10, #11
* Added Performance, FR recording, and Tests #6, #7, #8
* Added Tests #4, #5

Updates are shown in reverse chronological order.
It will make it easier for people who already read it to find the new stuff.
For new readers, everything is in one place above.



Coming soon
=========
* Why I choose the ES20 over the many other models?
* recording from 6hr VHS tape thru composite with and without In-Line NR
* page-by-page comparisson of the ES10 PDF and ES20 printed manual (both US editions)

There was some confusion as to wether it had a 10bit A/D converter or a 12bit A/D converter so by any chance is this mentioned in the specs. or anywhere in the owners manual?

I would also like you to test it at the other recording speeds if you can & report back on those. Thanks & enjoy your "new" playtoy :D

There was some confusion as to wether it had a 10bit A/D converter or a 12bit A/D converter so by any chance is this mentioned in the specs. or anywhere in the owners manual?

I did not find anything in the user manual. If this was mentioned in the ES10 manual, perhaps I can look for it in the same place in the ES20 manual? In the specs section, it says 525 lines, 60 fields, MPEG2 hybrid VBR, 662nm laser, but I haven't seen any mention of the A/D converter. I think it's the same version as the French language ES20 manual on the Canadian site. I will let you know if I find anything else.

(By the way thanks for letting me know about that in the other thread. I was not aware that the US ES20 was actually different until I read your reply).



I would also like you to test it at the other recording speeds if you can & report back on those. Thanks & enjoy your "new" playtoy :D
Thanks :-)

I will be testing the 4-hour mode next on a Fuji DVD-R using S-Video (I have to off-load my PVR from all the recordings I made in anticipation). This one will be from INHD (even though I dont have a HDTV, the widescreen broadcasts are very watchable in letterbox).

EDIT: I just realized Component is Output only :-( It would be nice if I could send the PVR to the ES20 via Component output!


After that I'll do some XP, SP and FR tests from different sources.

...Remote control is overall good, the menus are good, but a couple of spots could have been more streamlined...

Do you think the remote is good? The way I see it, the weakest feature of all these recorders are the remotes, and the Panny is one of the worst. Panny, are you listening?

* If you're not gong to give the jog-shuttle dial additional functionality that the buttons don't already have, then get rid of it and replace it with 4 tactile keys for up, down, left, right. I hate to think of all the times I was pressing the darn thing at the 2 o'clock position instead of 3 o'clock, and nothing was happening.

* Please cluster the editing keys together. For some unknown reason, the huge TV Guide key is right in the middle of all the editing keys. Again, I hate to think how many times I hit this by mistake and was blown out of an edit session. I suggest you put the TV Guide key below the jog-shuttle dial, and out of the way. And as a byproduct, you can then move the editing keys closer together allowing the owner to reach all the editing keys with his thumb without having to change how he holds the remote during an edit session. You know, it's not really any harder to do it right way.

* Can you do something about the responsiveness of the remote? Depending on what I'm doing, there can be up to a second delay between pushing a button and seeing the results on the screen. And can we have a remote that we don't have to point almost directly at the DVR? My remote doesn't work if I'm more than 20 degrees off access. Very annoying.

* Can we have some kind of keyboard for entering alphanumeric text? My pager has it - so does Blackberry. The cost cannot be that much.

I've been trying to figure out why folks get outraged by things like a 20 second power-up time on some recorders, but there is very little discussion about these lame input devices. I guess it all comes down to expectations. We're so complacent about this, that the manufactures have had little incentive to improve upon them. It's not unusually to buy a TV these days for $5,000 with a remote that you know is worth about $10.

probepro, The new 20 does not have a Shuttle Dial (But the new HDD 60 may have it?)

It's just the basic Panasonic remote that they started using on the E55 & I think it does a good job once you get used to it unlike the "Shuttle Dial" designed ones.

Yes, I agree & I can't understand why we can't hook up a keyboard to enter titles & etc but maybe there saving all these features that people want for their new higher priced HD Recorders? :eek:

Do you think the remote is good? The way I see it, the weakest feature of all these recorders are the remotes, and the Panny is one of the worst. Panny, are you listening?

I like the remote overall. I found it quite responsive, especially when compared to the remote of the Comcast PVR (Motorola DCT). The only annoyance is the three rows of keys at the bottom which can be confusing if you are pressing them using tactile feedback instead of looking at the remote.

I did notice that this one may not have as wide an angle, but it could be just my setup. I did not try bouncing the beam on this one, but my Panasonic VCRs can read their remotes fine even when bouncing the beam off reflective surfaces.

This is probably an entry-level remote compared to the remotes of the more advanced hard disc based machines. There is no TV Guide feature or button.

The text entry is a bit awkward but surpringly not ineffective. It uses a grid of all letters and characters, and you can use either the cursor keys or press numbers to jump to a row. I usually create short title names, with codes (eg s1, e1, p1 for season, episode, part) all caps. But it would be annoying if I was entering more than just a few words.

I like the remote overall. I found it quite responsive, especially when compared to the remote of the Comcast PVR (Motorola DCT)....


Yeah, it is all relative. I own a Panny EH50 and an Pio 533, and the 533 remote responds immediately, as it should. By comparison, editing on the EH50 is tedious. The Panny's remote is better balanced and fits my hand better, but the shuttle dial is a big nuisance. Pioneer takes this man-machine interface issue very seriously, and it's beginning to show in their products. Their new line of DVRs just released in Japan are designed to be VCR replacements that even your Aunt Mary can operate. Panny has a lot of catching up to do. They need to start designing DVRs that work the way people work, not they way the hardware works.

The shuttle dial on the Pannys is crap. It wouldn't be so bad if it had more tension. It feels really loose and turns easily with out any pressure. I don't know how any times I picked up the remote and set off the jog shuttle to rewind or fast forward. The E50 responsiveness is sluggish beyond belief. While editing out commercials the 531 will play and show how the cut looks like before you actually cut the commercial. No such thing on the Panny. Owning both machines I like the LP mode of the Panny. Everything else is better on the Pioneer 531. I like on the 531 that you can high speed a DVD to the hard drive and then high speed back to DVD to make a 1 or a few copies. No such thing on the Panny that I found unless I can't figure it out?. You have to real time it which kills too much time.

I used to have an E10 and later sold it for the E50 for the hard drive. That sucker used to get "major" hot if you played a couple DVD's on it for a few hours. It was so hot I almost dopped the DVD once..LOL. I though it was going to burn my hand. It wasn't that hot but hot enough it freaked me out. I can't believe the E10 never had a fan.

I used to have an E10 and later sold it for the E50 for the hard drive. That sucker used to get "major" hot if you played a couple DVD's on it for a few hours. It was so hot I almost dopped the DVD once..LOL. I though it was going to burn my hand. It wasn't that hot but hot enough it freaked me out. I can't believe the E10 never had a fan.

Wow! The ES20 so far has not gotten hot, it is colder than me when I touch it. The discs come out just slightly warm after a 5-hour burn. And it only has one grill on each side (+ the fan in the back)

DVD-RAM: A new way to watch VHS tapes?

I just tried using a VHS tape with bad noise, not just the uniform background noise, but also the annoying sparkling noise dots which make it very annoying to watch even on my basic setup. This was a VHS recording thru an RF cable that wasn't plugged in properly.

Watching it thru the ES20 removed the annoying sparking noise (LineIN NR and MPEG-DR were both ON), but it was even better when I decided to stream (time shift) it to a DVD-RAM (at SP mode). I waited for 15 minutes (for commercials skips), and started watching on the DVD-RAM while it was recording. I was quite impressed at the improvement over the original VHS tape. After this, I am thinking of using this setup as a way to watch VHS tapes (extra benefits of NR, Time Slip, faster CM skip, more fine-tuned pause/rewind/fastforward).

@ncaahoops
Very good review. I have one suggestion for you. Make an XP and SP recording and test it on your Apex player.

@Bill1313
On a packaging box it is printed:

“2X LP Horizontal resolution (500 lines) with DIGA ENGINE.”

To me, that means that ES-20 has the same 12-bit encoder as the ES-10 model. I can’t see a reason why Panasonic will install the obsolete 10-bit encoder in the new succeeding model when they have a better new one.
I bought the ES-10 over the ES-20 because I don’t care about the DV input (I can’t see any picture improvement from that port over the other ones and I am loosing one S/line input with the excellent TBC/DNR electronics) and because I like the build quality of the older model better.

I bought the ES-10 over the ES-20 because I don’t care about the DV input (I can’t see any picture improvement from that port over the other ones and I am loosing one S/line input with the excellent TBC/DNR electronics) and because I like the build quality of the older model better.

Hi, I'm new but have to query, doesn't S-video inputs bypass the TBC/DNR circuitry? I have read here that it operates only through the composite RCA input? Or, I'm possibly mistaken.

I ask because ES10's are selling cheap near me, but I like to use S-video cablings.

Cheers!

@ncaahoops
Very good review. I have one suggestion for you. Make an XP and SP recording and test it on your Apex player.
Thanks! Do you mean to test the noisy VHS tape I mentioned just above as you described, or try that with various input sources? I still have the noisy VHS tape intact...



@Bill1313
On a packaging box it is printed:

“2X LP Horizontal resolution (500 lines) with DIGA ENGINE.”

To me, that means that ES-20 has the same 12-bit encoder as the ES-10 model. I can’t see a reason why Panasonic will install the obsolete 10-bit encoder in the new succeeding model when they have a better new one.
I bought the ES-10 over the ES-20 because I don’t care about the DV input (I can’t see any picture improvement from that port over the other ones and I am loosing one S/line input with the excellent TBC/DNR electronics) and because I like the build quality of the older model better.

I don't have any way to verify this but it looks like the LP mode is similar to the ES10 (2x 500 D1 lines). I'm partly basing that on this:

As far as macroblocking is concerned, from what I have observed so far, it only happened at some occasions (while recording sports), perhaps it depends on the various aspects of the picture (camera angles, cameramen, lighting, color and texture of floor/arena, uniforms and audience).

Though not tested side-by-side, I think the sweet spot is from 4:2x to 4:4x FR instead of 4hr LP for sports (for those who can stand this type of picture compression).

I have observed more macroblocking at LP than 4:xx FR. Which could be because has it has fewer lines and so it can increase the rate?? (guessing/speculating here).

The drop-off from 4:2x-4:4x FR to 6hr EP mode is significant. I cannot stand the 6hr EP mode and I am not demanding on PQ...

@mattso
I wrote “S/line input”, which for me means “S-video/RCA input”. Sorry if I confused you. Most of the time I am working with excellent video sources (Betacam SP, DVCam, DV and first generation SVHS tapes) and that is why I am using S-video port. When I am dealing with poor VHS recordings I am using exclusively line (RCA) input.

@ncaahoops
I am confident that with the XP and, eventually, with the SP recordings, you will experience occasional stuttering and maybe even freezing with your Apex player.

@ncaahoops
I am confident that with the XP and, eventually, with the SP recordings, you will experience occasional stuttering and maybe even freezing with your Apex player.

Interesting... I'll test that!

So far I haven't had any playback problems with the Apex but I have only been watching things recorded in 4hr+ modes on the Apex (Sports action at 4:2x-4:5x, tv shows at 4hr LP mode, and misc at 6hr EP).

I haven't had any issues with mixed rate titles on a single disc (eg 6hr EP and 4:xx FR on the same disc). I'll set some time aside to test all the things I recorded using different recording modes on DVD+R to make sure what I record is actually playable elsewhere!

Since I don't want to take any sides on the +R/-R debate, I am using both (one of the reasons I got the ES20). So far I have recorded about 1/3rd on DVD-R, 1/3rd on DVD+R, and 1/3rd on DVD-RW/DVD-RAM. Until I get a modern era dvd player, I can only play finalized DVD+R on the Apex. I am not brave enough to try the firmware hacks to make it read DVD-R.

@ncaahoops
I am confident that with the XP and, eventually, with the SP recordings, you will experience occasional stuttering...
I've had that happen with a 1:09 FR recording made with my ES10 and played back on my Panny RV-32 (with updated firmware). I've also observed some macroblocking with the same recording.

I need to play the same disc in my Toshiba DVD player to see if it is the player that is the problem or if it is the disc itself.

I've had that happen with a 1:09 FR recording made with my ES10 and played back on my Panny RV-32 (with updated firmware). I've also observed some macroblocking with the same recording.

I need to play the same disc in my Toshiba DVD player to see if it is the player that is the problem or if it is the disc itself.

In your case it is probably media related problem. Panasonic recordings play fine on a name brand players (Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Pioneer).

In your case it is probably media related problem. Panasonic recordings play fine on a name brand players (Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Pioneer).
In my previous post I forgot to mention that the original recording was made with an ES10 (transfer of our 9 year old wedding video from VHS).

I then took it to my PC and fixed up the chapters, added menus, etc with TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6. TDA is not supposed to re-encode the video when it writes the new DVD, so I am assuming that the video recording is still the same as when it came off the ES10.

I played the disc in the Toshiba DVD player, and the macroblocking was not present.

So either it was the media (finalized Maxell DVD-RW burned at 2X) that the Panasonic RV-32 didn't like, or it was the content itself.

I played the disc in the Toshiba DVD player, and the macroblocking was not present.

So either it was the media (finalized Maxell DVD-RW burned at 2X) that the Panasonic RV-32 didn't like, or it was the content itself.

If the Toshiba was fine and you have problem with the Panasonic player...then the content is fine and the problem is the media compatibility with your Panasonic player.

So MacroBlocking may be attributed to the media and the player's compatibility with the media (not the content)? If that's so, then I should check the media I had noticed some MB on - they maybe of the same brand!

The media I have been using are Maxell 8X DVD-R (made by Ritek) and Maxell 2X DVD-RW (not sure who makes it).

Both sets of media are the Made In Taiwan Maxells.

EDIT: The Maxell 2X DVD-RW are made by Optodisc.

thanks for the review. i have been eyeing this model the last few days and, as a matter of fact, i am going over to BB today to purchase it.

so this review is quite timely.

thanks.

Thinking that I can use the DV Input to transer files from my Mac Mini...I exchanged my DMRES10 for this POS...!!!

Why take out the SHORTEN TITLE feature...?!?! I can't stand doing the Creat Chapter method, very annoying and lazy for me to bother with it. I tried calling Best Buy but they sold it.

Now I'm trying to see if which Best Buy carries the DMR-ES10, if not I'm returning it. I sent an e-mail to Panasonic Canada about my complaint.

thanks for the review. i have been eyeing this model the last few days and, as a matter of fact, i am going over to BB today to purchase it.

so this review is quite timely.

thanks.

You are welcome!

@ncaahoops
I am confident that with the XP and, eventually, with the SP recordings, you will experience occasional stuttering and maybe even freezing with your Apex player.

One test so far:

One hour scifi show (from the local Fox channel) recorded on Comcast PVR, from there recorded and finalized on ES20 (XP mode, Philips 8x +R). I did not notice any problems with playback on the Apex, but i did not watch the show minute by minute. I watched parts of each chapter and random spots but did not notice any problems. [This Apex player has the classic Galaxy Quest playback issue]


I don't have any "throw-away" blank DVDs at the moment, so I can't do more of these tests at XP/SP until i find "throw-away" DVDs (eg the $3ar on black friday mentioned in another thread).

ncaahoops, good review. I'm interested in the DV input. Unless I missed it you haven't tested it yet. When you get around to it, how well does that work? Do you find the quality to be better than with S-VIDEO input?

The second question I have for you is regarding the lack of HHD. Have you missed not having a HHD for anything? If you had an HHD, what could you do that currently you can not?

ncaahoops, good review. I'm interested in the DV input. Unless I missed it you haven't tested it yet. When you get around to it, how well does that work? Do you find the quality to be better than with S-VIDEO input?

The second question I have for you is regarding the lack of HHD. Have you missed not having a HHD for anything? If you had an HHD, what could you do that currently you can not?


Thanks for your kind words.

Question #1: I forgot to mention this in the review. I don't have any way of testing the DV input as I dont have access to a camcorder with DV out. I will test it if I can borrow someone's camcorder with DV out, but this may take a while since people are less likely to part with their camcorders during the holidays.

Question #2: Yes, I miss not having a HDD. I am using the Comcast DVR as a surrogate hard drive but it's not the same as having a hard disc. The things that I could do additionally with a hard disk model:
1) fast transfer from hard disk to DVD
2a) editing on the hard disk (comcast DVR does not allow any editing at all)
2b) because of 2a I could custom-burn the DVDs so no space is wasted and it is recorded at the highest possible quality
3) replace the Comcast DVR that I am renting at $10/mo (although I getting spoiled by these Comcast DVR features: dual tuners, and the ability to record 2 digital channels in parallel).
4) advanced features of the HDD models (not neccessarily because of the hard disc, but because manufacturers put more features in more expensive models)

The main reasons I didn't get a hard disk model:
1) I wasn't familiar with dvd recording, so I wanted to get started with a relatively basic model. I didn't want to make a first purchase in the $400s when I wasn't very familiar with the technology
2) prices! $200- vs $400+

I am guessing that i will get a hard-disk based model in 12-18 months. A big plus if they come up with dual-tuner models and the ability to record digital channels (over 100) - which I don't know if the cable industry will ever allow them to do.

hi,

some questions for this particular model for current owners:

i've read on some reviews that the the es20 suffers from lines/artifacts/noise made from the fan. Do you experience any of this and how visible is it? is it always there or only sometimes?

does the es20 work for digital cable shows like espn, fox sports, etc if you don't have a pvr? i.e. directly from time warner's generic digital cable box.

also, is it able to switch channels or do u have to set the channels on the cable box and keep it on in order to record?

have u had any problems importing the dvd-r/+r's into a computer to edit it?

thanks.

hi,

some questions for this particular model for current owners:

i've read on some reviews that the the es20 suffers from lines/artifacts/noise made from the fan. Do you experience any of this and how visible is it? is it always there or only sometimes?

I can't say for sure because my setup is messy using cheap cables and A/B switches and different things sometimes introduce interference. I will try to check more on this.


does the es20 work for digital cable shows like espn, fox sports, etc if you don't have a pvr? i.e. directly from time warner's generic digital cable box.

also, is it able to switch channels or do u have to set the channels on the cable box and keep it on in order to record?


There are two ways to record TV shows on the ES20:

1) Using the ES20's tuner
You can record anything you want from the analog channels (1 thru 99 or so) completely independent of the cable box. This includes the standard cable channels one finds in most systems like ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, CNN, FoxSports, etc - anything under 99 or so. For this to happen, you have to connect the RF cable from the wall to the RF-Input of the ES20. (Typically you have to split the RF signal from the wall and connect it to the ES20 and the cable box and any other devices you may want).

2) Using the Cable box's outputs
You can record what the cable box is tuned to. The ES20 has no way of controlling the cable box. This would work with either the S-video, composite or RF coax outputs of the cable box going into the ES20 inputs.

(One note on the RF output of the cable box: Some older cable boxes had a working RF pass-through. In the latest ones from Comcast (Moto 6412) that I have used RF passthru does not work).






have u had any problems importing the dvd-r/+r's into a computer to edit it?
thanks.
I haven't tried that. I am not using the PC for any sort of DVD editing - partly because i dont have a DVD burner :-)

speaking of the RF cable,

does the panasonic es20 record audio in stereo if u use built in tuner? I read complaints from others that the liteon 5005 records in mono. i think i'm leaning towards the es20 if picture quality is mostly free of artifacts.

The ES20 will record in stereo using the built-in tuner.

Also, if you are going to record on the ES20 and edit on the PC, use rewritable discs (DVD-RW) not -R/+r discs.

So is this worth getting ya think ??

So is this worth getting ya think ??
If it works as well as the ES10, it will be a good entry level DVD recorder.

After a few weeks of using the ES20 for recording sports (mainly basketball) here are my thoughts:

Let me preface this by saying I am not an expert, these are my observations from using the ES20. (See the original post for more on that).

For basketball, I noticed two types of artefacts:

A) The most common is when the camera tries to follow a player after a made basket as he is running back on defense with the background being the crowd in the stands. What macroblocks mostly is the crowd in the stands, which is of no particular interest anyway. But nonetheless some people find it annoying, and others want to have a clean copy. This is sometimes observed in SP mode as well but it is much less pronounced than LP.

B) movement-related: sometimes during fast movement of players. As expected, this is more common in the 4:20-4:50FR mode and rare in the SP mode.


The artefacts seem to depend on various factors -in my estimation-, including:
* mpeg compression and ES20 internals
* quality of the original broadcast (eg compression) - some instances (of digital cable channels particularly) already have light macroblocking in some of these situations
* camera and cameraman handling and position, camera movement, lens, camera angle, etc
* color/lighting in the arena (in some arenas you may notice jaggies in the 3-point lines or the paint lines)


Recording modes and Macroblocking
-----------------------------------------------
LP mode seems to have more macroblocking and artefacts than SP or FR (4:20 to 4:50) or so. EP mode (6h or 8h) is unwatchable for sports because of the compression/smoothing/etc. 3hr-FR seems to behave similarly to LP mode. SP mode is better but not 100% perfect. I haven't used XP much so I can't commend on that one. However the ES20 does not deserve all the blame because I notice lighter compression artefacts in the original Comcast DVR picture and DVR recordings. In other words, the additional compression of the ES20 may be magnifying the side-effects of Comcastic compression. But regardless of that,the final picture is what matters to the viewer :)


Other important factors to consider
--------------------------------------------
Another thing to keep in mind is what exactly are you planning to record, and what sources, as different dvd recorders may be more suited for some things better than others.

In my case this falls into two main categories:

1) Active watching and recording. (chase-play live games, live live games, already recorded games or even VCR games). For most new games of the 05-06 season, I record them to the Comcast DVR, then start watching after 30 minutes or so (for chase play/commercial skip), and at the same time record them to the ES20 while watching. This has the benefit of removing commercials since I don't watch the commercials anyway. It only has the additional overhead of pressing PAUSE before and after each commercial break. Not a big deal.

(Btw, most games fit on one disc at SP with room to spare. But if it's a long close game with lots of whistles/delays or it goes into 2nd overtime, you may fill up the disc).

For this type of recording the ES20 has the disadvantage of basically two options: either SP or LP. You can't pause/restart recording with the FR modes. The Pioneer MN-32 mode would give a lot more choice here!


2) Passive recording (eg not watching): This could be either from the RF tuner, cable box, or VHS. FR can be used here to utilize the most out of the disk since the size of the recording is predetermined for non-live games, and can be guestimated for live games (eg 2:30 - 3hr FR)


* I am not doing any PC editing nor do I wish to do any post-recording editing in the device (I would do some if DVD-RW(VR) was available, or if DVD-RAM was as cheap as DVD-R/RW, but as it is right now, there's not much to gain from heavy editing, other than commercial removal which I personally find a hassle unless I am watching/recording at the same time in which case commercial removal is easy)

* For VHS recordings the ES20 does clean up noisy tapes. Don't expect miracles but it can turn an unwatchable tape into a watchable one in _some_ instances. YMMV and it also depends on personal preference, equipment, etc.


6hr VHS or 4hr LP mode
------------------------------
I think this is one of the biggest trade-offs of both this device and deciding whether to go with DVD or continue with VHS tape. Each has its pluses/minuses, which have long been debated so I won't get into that debate. Neither one is perfect, so it is up to YOU to decide what to use and when. Obviously future generation DVD recorders will improve, so perhaps a hybrid strategy of VHS and DVD at this moment may be one possible solution for those who can't decide between the two.

probepro, The new 20 does not have a Shuttle Dial (But the new HDD 60 may have it?)

Enlighten me on this HDD 60. I did a search on panny's website and no info... :eek:

It's the Panasonic EH-60 HDD DVD recorder. This is basically the EH-50 with a bigger (200 GB vs 100 GB) HDD. It is currently available in North America only in Canada, but should be available in the US soon.

Here's a link to the Panasonic Canada site: http://www.panasonic.ca/english/audiovideo/dvdvcr/recorder/dmreh60.asp

Thank you very much for the review....I'm looking into buying the ES20 or ES30 after Christmas (should be some good sales by then).

I'm not into the whiz-bang stuff....I just want a basic DVD recorder/player that will tape certain curling games (don't think they'll be too much problems with motion problems considering the slow pace of the game). I'm not into converting my old VHS tapes...don't have they many anyway and they are not worth saving.

I have a dish (Star Choice)....correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the receiver box, ES20/30, then TV...correct? Will the 20/30 work of dishes???

Would a ES20 or ES30 be a good choice for a bare-bone beginner???

Thank you very much for the review....I'm looking into buying the ES20 or ES30 after Christmas (should be some good sales by then).

I'm not into the whiz-bang stuff....I just want a basic DVD recorder/player that will tape certain curling games (don't think they'll be too much problems with motion problems considering the slow pace of the game). I'm not into converting my old VHS tapes...don't have they many anyway and they are not worth saving.

I have a dish (Star Choice)....correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the receiver box, ES20/30, then TV...correct? Will the 20/30 work of dishes???


I don't have any experience with satellite dishes, but the manual mentions the above as a way to connect it to either the cable box or satellite receiver.

Apart from that, I dont know if you can split the satellite signal or what to do for programming with the satellite box.

The SP mode solves most of the motion related problems, but it is not 100% crystal clear. I haven't used XP extensively to comment on that.


Would a ES20 or ES30 be a good choice for a bare-bone beginner???

It is a good choice, it is a fairly basic and easy to use recorder and one can get started almost right away. There are some other good recorders in the same price range as well, notably some of the Pioneers.

When playing a finalized disc (+/-R) or DVD-Video (commercial DVD) when you press STOP you get a background screen that says "Panasonic DVD-RAM blah blah". You cannot use TimeSlip or view the tuner channels or IN1/IN2/DV.

But I accidentally discovered that if you press STOP one additional time - while on the Panasonic background screen - that screen disappears and you get back the picture that comes in from the Tuner or IN1/IN2. So you don't have to remove the DVD-Video or finalized +/-R to look at the Tuner or IN1/IN2. Be careful not to press STOP many times in a row as the ES20 may reset your current position on the DVD.

{For this type of recording the ES20 has the disadvantage of basically two options: either SP or LP. You can't pause/restart recording with the FR modes. The Pioneer MN-32 mode would give a lot more choice here!}


Are you sure?

I have the ES10 and you can pause/rec. in FR mode. You cant stop/rec. in FR mode

{For this type of recording the ES20 has the disadvantage of basically two options: either SP or LP. You can't pause/restart recording with the FR modes. The Pioneer MN-32 mode would give a lot more choice here!}


Are you sure?

I have the ES10 and you can pause/rec. in FR mode. You cant stop/rec. in FR mode


Yes, the ES20 in FR recording mode started with the "F REC" button on the remote control ignores the PAUSE button. I just re-tested it using both a Sony DVD-RW and Panasonic DVD-RAM. It keep recording unless you press STOP or the recording completes. The same thing happens if the FR mode is initiated from the menus [Other Functions / Flexible Recording]. The FR mode cannot be paused when using the Scheduler/Timer either.

I guess we have uncovered another difference between the ES10 and ES20?

Pausing in FR mode would be HUGE for me when I record things off the Comcast DVR. Grrrrrr @ Panasonic!

I'll say that's a HUGE difference with the "FR" mode & it looks like Panasonic is really forcing you to step up to the HDD model or a new Hi-Def Recorder when they come out. :(

{I guess we have uncovered another difference between the ES10 and ES20?}

Thats a big difference and a deal breaker for me as i was looking at getting an additional DVR and was considering the ES20 because i have been so happy with my ES10.I record alot in FR mode..especially programs that have commercials i pause out.

What are these people thinking?

What their thinking is how do we compete against the $99 recorders from China that the average person might go out & buy so lets cut back on as many things as possible on the entry level models so we can get the price down on them.

As for the Standard DVD Recorder market don't worry too much about the quality or new features just worry about the price point because very shortly people are not even going to want them anyway after we release our new Hi-Def Recorders & the price comes down on them.

I think all the features & Etc that people have been asking for (Like being able to hook up a keyboard to add titles & record all formats) will all end up on the new Hi-Def Recorders & we all had better get used to the idea that the Standard DVD Recorders are going to die out the same way VCRs did but only quicker.

We all should have expected this anyway because as far as I'm concerned the DVD Format was really dead from the beginning because it was never designed for our new HDTV system but the old Analog system.

Glad I found out about all the things missing from the ES20. I was able to find a new ES10 online and decided to buy that. I'm actually giving my E80 to my mom so that she can start using an HDD/DVD recorder instead of her old VCRs. I will miss my E80 greatly...but am looking forward to whatever comes out next year.

A keyboard on a new recorder would be nice...or I wish they could just add predictive text like all almost ALL cellphones have now. Instant messaging with predictive text is so fast and could easily be added to a recorder!

{I guess we have uncovered another difference between the ES10 and ES20?}

Thats a big difference and a deal breaker for me as i was looking at getting an additional DVR and was considering the ES20 because i have been so happy with my ES10.I record alot in FR mode..especially programs that have commercials i pause out.

What are these people thinking?

That's true! If I knew about this I would have probably waited to find the ES10 in stock somewhere, instead of getting the ES20. Or perhaps this would have tilted the scales towards the Pioneers. Pausing FR mode is such a great way to utilize available space and control recording quality. It can be sort of simulated on the ES20 in some situations with FR, stop, recalc, start new FR, but even typing the process out in this message is a big hassle and you end up with a handful of titles per ...title.

Maybe I should call Panasonic and demand a firmware upgrade! :-)

I'll say that's a HUGE difference with the "FR" mode & it looks like Panasonic is really forcing you to step up to the HDD model or a new Hi-Def Recorder when they come out. :(

Yes it is! It would have been a deal-breaker for me had I known that at purchase time. We will probably not see the flexibility/features of the Pioneer 220 in a sub-$200 recorder again. This would have been an even bigger problem for me if I wasn't using the Comcast DVR to time-shift/stream recorded shows. But my next one will be a HDD-based model, I just don't know if I can give up the Comcast DVR's dual-tuner digital and analog channel recording feature. Do any of the current HDD-based models have dual tuners or can you record one thing to the HDD and another to the DVD at the same time?

I have found that the 4hr:40min FR mode using the ES20's RF tuner is a very good compromise for sports. The picture may not be as good as SP/LP, but it's better than EP, and it is a very reasonable trade-off to 6hr VHS mode. It is by no means perfect, but it doesn't have any annoying compression artifacts. During some close-ups there is soft nanoblocking in the background, but it's not annoying. This I observed after about half a dozen of 4:40 FR recordings using the ES20 RF tuner and playing them back on an ancient Apex dvd player. Similar recordings using 6hr VHS as a source are not as good (as expected because of double compression - I described that in the posts above). I am also starting to believe that some of the artifacts I was observing above were more because of the Comcast DVR, and the LP mode perhaps. 4:40FR is special for sports, because you can record an ESPN double-header (two games played at different arenas; same-arena games have a +20minute increase), and you are almost guaranteed to get the end of the 2nd game even with about 1-2 overtimes. The next thing to test would be LP mode with the RF tuner....

So just to be clear? I can use the ES20 to record onto disc a program from a DVR (8300HD) via the composite outputs from the DVR to the inputs of the ES20?

That would certainly make it worthwhile to pick one of these up for me.

You guys rock. If only the goofballs at Best Buy and Fry's knew as much as you.

I've never used a DVR, and much of this conversation seems like a foreign language. Am I reading this correctly - the ES20 has no advantages over the ES10 and offers FEWER features (can't pause during commercials, lacks "SHORTEN TITLE feature, etc.)

What is the "SHORTEN TITLE" feature?

It sounds like the Pioneer 533 is the best choice - comparable to the ES10 with a better and more responsive remote control - correct?


I have hundreds of football games on VHS. I want to copy them to DVD to save space. I want to add "chapters" at the beginning of each quarter and possibly the scoring plays.

Other uses would be to compile hours of "home movies" to DVD. Maybe I'll add subtitles (names, dates, events) to the footage.

My 1 year old computer has a DVD burner. Would I be better off just doing this on my computer? If so, can you recommend any software?

"FR" Record Mode :mad:

Hate to say it, but this is one of the reasons that everytime you buy "Any" new product before the 30 day return policy is up on it you should TEST Every Little Feature or Thing that you can think of out on it.

I know it can be a pain to find the time sometimes to totally check a product out but it really is a situation where You Have To Make The Time or Get Stuck With What You Bought!

That's one of the reasons boards like this can be so helpful to people who just don't have the time & I really apreciate Test Reports & Info like ncaahoops is giving us here.

Hi,

Lots of great info here! Ok, so I just bought an ES20 yesterday and I'm transferring my wedding video to the DVD RAM disc they provided in the box. I want to make chapters but from reading this thread last night, I see that the ONLY way to make chapters is on the RAM disc? Right?

So once I have it on the RAM disc, is there a way to transfer that onto a DVD-r?

Man there is so much to learn about all these formats and what you can and can't do..... :eek:

Thanks!

To retain chapters etc you would have to load it onto PC(one that will except ram).
Or if you have a DVD player that will except ram you can play it back to ES20 and record but you won't retain chapters.

Excuse my ignorance, but I can't figure how to record channels of 80 and higher from my cable system. I have the cable box hooked up to the recorder with S video and stereo sound. I also have the cable from the wall split to the cable box and the recorder (that was the only way I could get the setup to find any channels). But, when I try to schedule a recording to, for example channel 80, the recorder doesn't know 80 and won't accept such. I do realize I will have to have the cable box channel set to the channel I want to record.

thanks for the help

Well, I tried my first RAM recording and made the chapters (pretty easy with this recorder!) But of course my pc wouldn't recognize the RAM disc.



So I looked in the manual and according to page 31, it says that:

After finalizing -R or +R, "Titles are divided into about 5-minute* chapters

*Time varies greatly depending on the condition and mode of recording.

There is a pause of seceral seconds between titles and chapters during play



So it DOES create chapters on -r and +R? But what's with the "several seconds pause" in between chapters? :confused:

I'm re-recording my video on to a dvd-r to see what this is all about. :D

So it DOES create chapters on -r and +R? But what's with the "several seconds pause" in between chapters? :confused:

I'm re-recording my video on to a dvd-r to see what this is all about. :D

I have the ES-10 and have not experienced any pause between chapters on either +R's or -R's. What it is useful for is skipping ahead about five minutes during playback.

OK, quick update (for those keeping score at home :p)

I recorded from my VHS source on to a DVD-R and then finalized my disc and it DID create 5 minute chapters and there is NO pause between the chapters. I'm ok with that, I mean it would be great to be able to create the chapters myself like you can using DVD RAM media, but I can live with this. The picture and sound are great.

Every review I read on this recorder pointed out that you cannot create chapters on DVD +/- R discs. I understood that to mean that when you record on that type of media, it will result in ONE long chapter, meaning you would have to literally fast forward to jump ahead on the disc (like a VHS tape) But that is not the case at all.

Again, I'm a complete newbie here, this is my first DVD rcorder, first disc I ever tried to make, so it's all new to me. :)

Also, for anyone who bought this DVD recorder between Nov 20, 2005 and Dec 31, 2005....here's a $50 rebate!

But of course my pc wouldn't recognize the RAM disc.

I was lucky in that my CD burner died a few weeks ago. I replaced it with a DVD burner that reads DVD-RAM. The one I purchased was the ASUS DRW-1608P2 for less than $40. I think that LG also makes DVD writers that read DVD-RAM.

Also, for anyone who bought this DVD recorder between Nov 20, 2005 and Dec 31, 2005....here's a $50 rebate!

Read that rebate CLOSELY....I thought it was great too UNTIL I read that you also have to buy a portable player :( Read step 1 where it says "and".

Read that rebate CLOSELY....I thought it was great too UNTIL I read that you also have to buy a portable player :( Read step 1 where it says "and".


DAMN IT. I didn't even see that. :mad:

Thanks for saving me the stamp :)


OK, so I watched a little of what I burned. Awesome picture but a few times there were little glitches in the music. Nothing major but still a little annoying. So far so good.

Excuse my ignorance, but I can't figure how to record channels of 80 and higher from my cable system. I have the cable box hooked up to the recorder with S video and stereo sound. I also have the cable from the wall split to the cable box and the recorder (that was the only way I could get the setup to find any channels). But, when I try to schedule a recording to, for example channel 80, the recorder doesn't know 80 and won't accept such. I do realize I will have to have the cable box channel set to the channel I want to record.

thanks for the help

You'll have to use manual timer recording for any channel that isn't carried on the analog cable. Just set the recorder to record from L1 and set the start time and end time. Set the STB to turn on at the correct time and to tune to the channel that you want to record.

thanks.

Excuse my ignorance, but I can't figure how to record channels of 80 and higher from my cable system. I have the cable box hooked up to the recorder with S video and stereo sound. I also have the cable from the wall split to the cable box and the recorder (that was the only way I could get the setup to find any channels). But, when I try to schedule a recording to, for example channel 80, the recorder doesn't know 80 and won't accept such. I do realize I will have to have the cable box channel set to the channel I want to record.

thanks for the help

The highest double digit channel I have is 82, and it works fine on the ES20. I do remember a few years ago that a channel number in the 80s/90s had a different number on the VCR. I am not an expert on cable systems, but maybe there is a legacy issue with those numbers?

"FR" Record Mode :mad:

Hate to say it, but this is one of the reasons that everytime you buy "Any" new product before the 30 day return policy is up on it you should TEST Every Little Feature or Thing that you can think of out on it.

I know it can be a pain to find the time sometimes to totally check a product out but it really is a situation where You Have To Make The Time or Get Stuck With What You Bought!

That's one of the reasons boards like this can be so helpful to people who just don't have the time & I really apreciate Test Reports & Info like ncaahoops is giving us here.

That's absolutely true. And sometimes you don't even know it until someone mentions something else (like the ES10 owner did above), and then you realize that a feature was actually removed! I didn't mind the other differences between the ES10 and the ES20 (or the Pioneer 2xx) but had I known about this at purchase time, it would have probably titled the scales towards the ES10 or the Pioneer 22x/23x.

This and the lack of -RW(VR) are my biggest issues with the ES20 as of this moment. Panasonic are you reading this?

OK, quick update (for those keeping score at home :p)

I recorded from my VHS source on to a DVD-R and then finalized my disc and it DID create 5 minute chapters and there is NO pause between the chapters. I'm ok with that, I mean it would be great to be able to create the chapters myself like you can using DVD RAM media, but I can live with this. The picture and sound are great.

Every review I read on this recorder pointed out that you cannot create chapters on DVD +/- R discs. I understood that to mean that when you record on that type of media, it will result in ONE long chapter, meaning you would have to literally fast forward to jump ahead on the disc (like a VHS tape) But that is not the case at all.

Again, I'm a complete newbie here, this is my first DVD rcorder, first disc I ever tried to make, so it's all new to me. :)

Also, for anyone who bought this DVD recorder between Nov 20, 2005 and Dec 31, 2005....here's a $50 rebate!

There are many media formats and that can be confusing. On top of that, Panasonic treats the +R like a -R format. And then there's the difference between -RW(Video) and -RW(VR).

I think when most people say you can't create chapters they imply "unless you finalize the disc" and they mean "you can't create a chapter of your own". On the ES20 the only time you have control over chapter quantity and positioning is when using DVD-RAM discs.

You guys rock. If only the goofballs at Best Buy and Fry's knew as much as you.

I've never used a DVR, and much of this conversation seems like a foreign language. Am I reading this correctly - the ES20 has no advantages over the ES10 and offers FEWER features (can't pause during commercials, lacks "SHORTEN TITLE feature, etc.)

What is the "SHORTEN TITLE" feature?

It sounds like the Pioneer 533 is the best choice - comparable to the ES10 with a better and more responsive remote control - correct?


I have hundreds of football games on VHS. I want to copy them to DVD to save space. I want to add "chapters" at the beginning of each quarter and possibly the scoring plays.

Other uses would be to compile hours of "home movies" to DVD. Maybe I'll add subtitles (names, dates, events) to the footage.

My 1 year old computer has a DVD burner. Would I be better off just doing this on my computer? If so, can you recommend any software?

The ES10 has more features than the ES20. The ES20 is lighter weight-wise and has a fan. The most glaring omission from the ES20 in my opinion is the ability to pause during FR recording.

The Pioneer 220/225/233 are comparable to the ES10. I am not familiar with the 533 probably because it either has a VCR or a hard disk or costs over $200. I didn't look into those models :)

"Shorten title" is like pruning a part of the recording. It can also be done using chapters. However, with the Panasonic ES10 and ES20 the only time you have direct control over chapters is when using DVD-RAM discs, which are more expensive than -RW or +/-R.

As far as sports are concerned, DVD recorders (because of MPEG compression) are not as good as VHS tapes at the 6hr mode. This one depends on your individual preferences. Some people only record 2 hours per DVD to avoid MPEG compression artifacts and things like macroblocking. I am not very picky, I can go up to 4hr 40 mins per disc. Anything longer gets too hazy/smoothed out even for me. I don't know how the Pioneers do, but some people claim they don't have as much macroblocking as Panasonic at the 4hr LP mode.

I don't use computers with DVDs so I can't answer any of the other questions, but with PCs you get a lot more editing choices and flexibility.

Does anyone know why the stores only seem to carry the silver version of the es20? I had made up my mind to get the es20, but I'd really like a black one.

The only place I've seen the black one is online & by the time you pay shipping it just doesn't seem worth the extra $ just for a color difference. Has *anyone* seen the black model locally?

gbalight, Crutchfield on-line has the Black model but it's $199.99

I don't know where your from but I'm pretty sure BrandsMart USA in South FL & Atlanta, GA has the Black Model.

The best place to look in your local area is stores that are not competing against Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears & Etc.

They will tend to carry the odd ball models that the Big boys won't & if you fight with them you usually can get them to come down to some where near the price of what the the Big boys want.

Maybe if you gave Panasonic a call & asked for the distric manager's phone number in your area he could help you out & probably better than anyone else & you might even be able to get the salesman's name & number for your area.

Years back Sears once dug up the name & phone number of the local rep for the area for me & he told me exactly where to go to buy the product I was after.

I would also try a seperate post asking this question rather than just burried in this thread.

* Noise Reduction is available for Line-In inputs only




I must be blind, but where do you go for the Noise Reduction Settings? :confused:

I must be blind, but where do you go for the Noise Reduction Settings? :confused:

Panasonic didn't place them at the best of locations. When you press the [Display] button on the remote, one of the options that apperas on the screen is [Line-IN NR] - it applies noise reduction to the Line-In inputs (for recording). Another option is [MPEG-DNR], which is playback NR - it does not affect teh recording. The options displayed depend on the type of disc that's in the drive. If the disc is an off-the-shelf DVD or finalized you get different things than if you have a DVD-RAM disc inserted. There also appears to be a minor bug when writing to a fresh DVD-R/+R for the first time where some of the options may not be displayed after the recording finishes and TimeSlip does not work. This is easily cured by either opening/closing the tray or the power off/on or waking up after a Timer recording.

I haven't tested this but maybe if you don't have anything connected to the Line IN inputs, maybe the LineIN NR option is not displayed?

I believe the MPEG-DNR is almost always available. The LineIN NR option cannot be changed while a recording is in progress.

Best Buy has the ES20 on sale, plus there is a $50 rebate. I did not see any tie-ins with any

Best Buy has the ES20 on sale, either on-line or in store, plus there is a $50 rebate. I did not see any tie-ins with any other required purchases.

Mike

ncaahoops,

Regarding your Comcast DVR. I have read other postings where some people feel that regular analog channels received on the DVR, even thou you are watching live, look worse than if received by your cable ready TV or a regular cable box. The thought is that everything that comes into the DVR is converted to MPEG-2 since it goes to the hard drive. In other words, all Standard Def analog gets converted to MPEG-2, thus degrading the picture.

1) Do you feel watching thru the DVR looks works than if viewed without the DVR?

2) Could some of the artifacts that you are observing be caused from downloading a MPEG-2 video from the DVR and re-converting it again to MPEG-2 when recording to the ES20? In other words a double conversion.

I'd like to get a DVD recorder with a HDD, but there are just too many postings with EPG problems on just about every model. Kind of defeats the purpose for recording while you are away. And since there is a $50 rebate on the ES20, I may just get one.

Mike

ncaahoops,

Regarding your Comcast DVR. I have read other postings where some people feel that regular analog channels received on the DVR, even thou you are watching live, look worse than if received by your cable ready TV or a regular cable box. The thought is that everything that comes into the DVR is converted to MPEG-2 since it goes to the hard drive. In other words, all Standard Def analog gets converted to MPEG-2, thus degrading the picture.

1) Do you feel watching thru the DVR looks works than if viewed without the DVR?


My setup is kinda messy, with generic cables, and switches/splitters, and an old TV, so I can't really make a distinction unless there is something that screams (eg macroblocking, haze, smoothing, etc). I did notice fewer artifacts if I record live to the ES20 rather than record on the DVR first (the double compression effect). I am assuming that the DVR converts/saves everything to MPEG2, otherwise it wouldn't be able to pause/rewind at any given moment. Some of the LP macroblocking of the ES20 is triggered by the compression of the DVR recording. Similar recordings made directly to the ES20 have fewer artifacts - they may still have some macroblockign but it is even less pronounced.


2) Could some of the artifacts that you are observing be caused from downloading a MPEG-2 video from the DVR and re-converting it again to MPEG-2 when recording to the ES20? In other words a double conversion.


That seems consistent with my experience. Some artifacts seem to be introduced by the Comcast DVR compression - granted they don't advertise that their DVR is using a lossless format, but it's supposed to be an XP/SP mode. They advertise up to 60 hours of analog channels on a 120GB hard disc, but in practice, it is 33 hours (1 hour of analog TV is ALWAYS 3% of the hard disc, 3 hours are 9%, etc). The digital channels range from 1% to 3% per hour. Some digital channels are consistently at 1%, which is a bit better than their estimate of 90 hours. The HD channels seem to suffer the least from compression.



I'd like to get a DVD recorder with a HDD, but there are just too many postings with EPG problems on just about every model. Kind of defeats the purpose for recording while you are away. And since there is a $50 rebate on the ES20, I may just get one.
Mike

Do they have EPG problems if you only use manual recording? Although it is convinient to use the EPG-style, there are times when I am fighting with the stupid DVR interface, and it has some bugs (eg ghost programs that refuse to be deleted and Comcast CSRs that don't seem to be interested in acknowledging/fixing them).

My master plan is to replace the DVR with a HDD-based model, and then I can use the HDD-model along with the ES20 so I can record two things at once. The only thing they can't do is record digital channels using the RF tuner, and about half of what I watch is digital channels.

Hello,

I'm new to the site and was referred here by a friend. I recently bought the Panasonic ES20. It's a great recorder, but I'm really bummed out about the 5 minute auto chapter insert. I think it should let you randomly place your chapters in all the formats, not just DVD-RAM. I record a lot of concert video, so I don't like the idea of a chapter starting in the middle of a song.

I have thought about sending this recorder back to Crutchfield in exchange for the EH-50 with the built in hard drive. From what I understand, you can insert chapters in -RW discs and the HD and not just -RAM like the ES20. I have heard (from a tech at Crutchfield) that the 5 minute insert rule still applies to the -R/+R discs, but a friend of mine who owns this recorder says that is not true unless you are high-speed dubbing from the HD.

Can any of you tell me if the EH-50 will let me randomly place chapters with -RW/-R/+R discs as it can with -RAM discs? If not, and it's the same as the ES-20, can you recommend a recorder that just as good as the Panasonics that will allow me this feature?

Thank you for the help and any suggestions.

Hello,

I'm new to the site and was referred here by a friend. I recently bought the Panasonic ES20. It's a great recorder, but I'm really bummed out about the 5 minute auto chapter insert. I think it should let you randomly place your chapters in all the formats, not just DVD-RAM. I record a lot of concert video, so I don't like the idea of a chapter starting in the middle of a song.


I agree with you that the user should have direct control over chapter placement or non-placement. To make it even less predictable, the chapter length depends on the recording mode. While it is uniform within the disc, it is not always 5-minutes. They are using some formula to calculate it.

I don't know if the chapter restriction is a format restriction or they just don't want to offer it.

I am not familiar with the HD-based models, so I can't answer those questions.

Your nickname has triggered a certain Yes song to playback in my head :-)

ncaahoops,

The HD channels are probably OK with the DVR because they are already MPEG-2.

With the HDD models, probably no EPG problems if using manually recording. But the popular Pioneer 531/533/633 disables the RF input if you choose timer recording, from what I have read. There are a lot of postings regarding EPG work arounds, but recording reliability is an issue. The 531 can be purchased at Walmart at real good price. But its a deal breaker if programs sometimes don't get recorded.

The other brands with HDD are just a bit too pricey at this point in time. I thought the Comcast DVR would be a good alternative. But then I read about the bugs that you have mentioned.

There is no perfect solution. I still need some kind of cable box for the digital channels. The DVR sounds neat, but cannot make a DVD-R. I thought about using the DVR and transferring to my PC for the few programs that I want to archive & then burn a DVD-R. I'd have to buy a DVD burner since my PC does not have one. They are not too expensive, but still a purchase. Then of course I'd somehow have to get the PC near the DVR in order to transfer data.

For now I picked up an ES20 last night at BB along with the $50 rebate. This is about the price of an inexpensive S-VHS recorder, which is my way of justifying a DVD recorder without a HDD. I currently have an S-VHS and am happy with it. I do mostly time shifting and it works just fine. No macroblocking & no EPG issues. But I thought it probably is time to upgrade to a disc format. I have not opened the box on the ES20 as I am still considering my options. But I figured I'd better get one while they are on sale.

Mike

Hello,
Can any of you tell me if the EH-50 will let me randomly place chapters with -RW/-R/+R discs as it can with -RAM discs? If not, and it's the same as the ES-20, can you recommend a recorder that just as good as the Panasonics that will allow me this feature?

Thank you for the help and any suggestions.

On the EH-50 I always record to HDD first, set my chapter marks and high-speed dub to disk. I use -RW, sometimes RAM disks, and my chapter marks remain.

And on page 43 of the EH-50 manual it states chapter marks will remain when high-speed dubbing with the only caveat being dubbing to +R will only retain 100 chapter marks when transferring.

I believe (but not sure because I record to HDD first myself) that when recording directly to R disks the recorder will make the standard about 5 min. chapter marks only due to the nature of the write-once format disk.

Of course, as been mentioned before in this forum, when first setting up the recorder (and after any reset) make the change in the setup menu to High-speed dubbing to on (or enabled).

ncaahoops,

The HD channels are probably OK with the DVR because they are already MPEG-2.

With the HDD models, probably no EPG problems if using manually recording. But the popular Pioneer 531/533/633 disables the RF input if you choose timer recording, from what I have read. There are a lot of postings regarding EPG work arounds, but recording reliability is an issue. The 531 can be purchased at Walmart at real good price. But its a deal breaker if programs sometimes don't get recorded.

Disabling the RF input sounds like a bad idea! What are they thinking?


The other brands with HDD are just a bit too pricey at this point in time. I thought the Comcast DVR would be a good alternative. But then I read about the bugs that you have mentioned.

The good thing with the Comcast DVR is that there is absolutely no commitment. I can return it anytime for any reason and get a regular cable box, and pay no penalties. Despite its shortcomings however, it has exceeded my expectations. Being able to record 2 things at once (even 2 digital channels) while playing back something else at the same time is impressive.


There is no perfect solution. I still need some kind of cable box for the digital channels. The DVR sounds neat, but cannot make a DVD-R. I thought about using the DVR and transferring to my PC for the few programs that I want to archive & then burn a DVD-R. I'd have to buy a DVD burner since my PC does not have one. They are not too expensive, but still a purchase. Then of course I'd somehow have to get the PC near the DVR in order to transfer data.

For now I picked up an ES20 last night at BB along with the $50 rebate. This is about the price of an inexpensive S-VHS recorder, which is my way of justifying a DVD recorder without a HDD. I currently have an S-VHS and am happy with it. I do mostly time shifting and it works just fine. No macroblocking & no EPG issues. But I thought it probably is time to upgrade to a disc format. I have not opened the box on the ES20 as I am still considering my options. But I figured I'd better get one while they are on sale.

Mike

That is absolutely true. None of the solutions are perfect. It's all about trade-offs. I don't do any PC post-processing either - partly b/c my PC doesnt have a DVD burner, but even if it did, I wouldn't be doing any post-processing.

The rumour about the Panasonic DMR-ES20 having an LSI encoding chip is true. I just got hold of an ES20 myself... opened it up, removed the heat sink and the unit in fact has a LSI DoMiNo DMN-8602 encoding chip. What's more, the ES20 records full D1 at 720x480, not 704x480 (the "cropped" D1 format) like all the previous Panasonics do.

Apparently, the DMR-ES40V combo unit is also based on the LSI Logic DMN-8602.

These are the same MPEG2 encoders used by JVC and Lite-On, and in my opinion do a much better job than Panasonic's proprietary encoder... which has always produced noticeable macroblocks in recording times as short as 2 hours.

I also own an ES10. Test recordings of THX multi-purpose test patterns (with both machines' Line-In Noise Reduction off) show that the ES20 actually produces a sharper, more detailed image....

Here's the post over at VideoHelp.com -
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=287428

The rumour about the Panasonic DMR-ES20 having an LSI encoding chip is true. I just got hold of an ES20 myself... opened it up, removed the heat sink and the unit in fact has a LSI DoMiNo DMN-8602 encoding chip. What's more, the ES20 records full D1 at 720x480, not 704x480 (the "cropped" D1 format) like all the previous Panasonics do.

Apparently, the DMR-ES40V combo unit is also based on the LSI Logic DMN-8602.

These are the same MPEG2 encoders used by JVC and Lite-On, and in my opinion do a much better job than Panasonic's proprietary encoder... which has always produced noticeable macroblocks in recording times as short as 2 hours.

I also own an ES10. Test recordings of THX multi-purpose test patterns (with both machines' Line-In Noise Reduction off) show that the ES20 actually produces a sharper, more detailed image....

Here's the post over at VideoHelp.com -
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=287428


Interesting stuff! So the rumors were not unfounded :)

As far as macroblocking, in my case, the Comcast DVR seems to deserve some of the credit (blame), along with the condition of the digital channels as they fly off the wire. 4hr 40 minute FR recording off the RF tuner is a reasonable compromise to me - in some cases and for some recordings.

I wonder if Panasonic is still even making their chip?

Maybe they are now using the line/room to make the new Panny HD-DVD Chip instead?

What would be interesting to know is if the HDD EH60 model in Canada has the old or new LSI Chip in it?

If it still has the old Panny chip in it maybe that answers the reason why the USA doesn't have the EH60 yet because there are not enough Panny Chips left to go around for our market & they just could'nt throw in the LSI Chip in it's place without redesigning the whole thing?

So maybe next year will get the HDD EH70 with the LSI Chip in it :eek:

I wonder if Panasonic is still even making their chip?

If it still has the old Panny chip in it maybe that answers the reason why the USA doesn't have the EH60 yet because there are not enough Panny Chips left to go around for our market & they just could'nt throw in the LSI Chip in it's place without redesigning the whole thing?



Staggering releases in various markets seems to be a common practice at Panasonic, and I agree with you that it probably has to do with production capacity.

ncaahoops,

Regarding your Comcast DVR. I have read other postings where some people feel that regular analog channels received on the DVR, even thou you are watching live, look worse than if received by your cable ready TV or a regular cable box. The thought is that everything that comes into the DVR is converted to MPEG-2 since it goes to the hard drive. In other words, all Standard Def analog gets converted to MPEG-2, thus degrading the picture.

Mike

After you mentioned it, I paid closer attention to the faces on recorded shows on the DVR. In some cases, some faces looked like they had the surfaces of a Changeling from Star Trek!

The HDD-based models are definately more attractive for the long run, especially with the ability to high-speed transfer to DVD. Not being able to record digital channels off the RF cable is a minus though.

Does anyone know if future DVD recorders will be able (or allowed by the cable industry) to record digital channels off the RF cable? - Not necessary the premium digital channels like Showtime, HBO, but the digital basic channels that you get by default with digital cable???

I am new to dvd Recorder technology. However, I found the conversation here on DMR-ES20 very interesting as currently ES20 is available at Sears Store in my city. BB & FS are out of stcok. The Pioneer DVD RT 401S VCR/DVD Recorder is available at Costco.

I have very precious VCR tape recordings of my granddaughter going back to 1988. The whole idea coming into my head to buy dvd recorder is how to safe keep these recordings on dvd media.

I will greatly appreciate if some one here let me know whether VCR to DVD media is possible on DMR-ES20 or not. If yes, then how do I record as many as VCR tapes on one DVD media. How do I do that? Since my VCR tapes are of short time recordings and they some 15 of them.

If DMR-ES is not capable to do it then do you have any opinion of Pioneer DVD RT 401S VCR/DVD Recorder. It cost more money then ES20.

Many thanks in advance,

kpb

I am new to dvd Recorder technology. However, I found the conversation here on DMR-ES20 very interesting as currently ES20 is available at Sears Store in my city. BB & FS are out of stcok. The Pioneer DVD RT 401S VCR/DVD Recorder is available at Costco.

I have very precious VCR tape recordings of my granddaughter going back to 1988. The whole idea coming into my head to buy dvd recorder is how to safe keep these recordings on dvd media.

I will greatly appreciate if some one here let me know whether VCR to DVD media is possible on DMR-ES20 or not. If yes, then how do I record as many as VCR tapes on one DVD media. How do I do that? Since my VCR tapes are of short time recordings and they some 15 of them.

If DMR-ES is not capable to do it then7 do you have any opinion of Pioneer DVD RT 401S VCR/DVD Recorder. It cost more money then ES20.

Many thanks in advance,

kpb

You can definately do that with the ES20 by connecting the VCR to one of the line-in inputs of the ES20. Some of the options you can control with the ES20:
* Recording mode (XP, SP, LP, EP, FR)
* Line-In NR (Noise Reduction) ON or OFF
* Choice of media -RAM, -R, +R, -RW(V)
* input black level: darker or lighter

You can make multiple recordings per disc, as long as there is space, so if you have 15 VCR tapes of 5 minutes each, you can record them as 15 separate titles on a single DVD disc using the SP mode.

Has anyone noticed that on the panasonic's websight, there is a new firmware update to the es20, dated 12/9/05.....I can't post the link...i have less than 5 posts


Has anybody updated their es20 with this firmware?

Thanks for the heads up. I went to the site and found firmware for the ES-10 also. The upgrade is supposed to improve compatability with the new 8x and 16x media.
Here is the link
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vDownloads?storeId=15001&langId=-1&page=DVDFirmware

I applied the update to my ES10 and it took about 3 mins. I just finished off using all of my 4x DVD-R's and the new ones I have are the 8X Fuji's. I haven't had problems to date so maybe this will help in the future.

Has anyone noticed that on the panasonic's websight, there is a new firmware update to the es20, dated 12/9/05.....I can't post the link...i have less than 5 posts


Has anybody updated their es20 with this firmware?

That is good to know! I am downloading the firmware update but I don't know if I am brave enough to install it :-)

Did the firmware update...to the es20.... everything went as per instruction supplied from Panasonic.. Don't notice any changes as far as the menus are concerned. Seems ok....

Did the firmware update...to the es20.... everything went as per instruction supplied from Panasonic.. Don't notice any changes as far as the menus are concerned. Seems ok....

What firmware version does the machine show now that you have the new firmware upgrade? Mine is 00000103 (without the upgrade), and I bought it about 2-3 months ago.

You can find the firmware version by:
a) Press SETUP on the remote
b) Use the arrow keys on the remote to go to the menu option "Display"
c) Press the DISPLAY button on the remote control
d) Your firmware version appears for a few seconds on the screen!

I have some old music video VHS tapes that I want to transfer to dvd, but when I try, it won't record because they are copyright protected. They are not available on dvd (otherwise I'd just buy them)

I've seen some gadgets (http://www.xdimax.com/dvd/dvdredpro.html) out there to remove the Macrovision protection, but do those work on the ES20?

Any suggestions?

I have some old music video VHS tapes that I want to transfer to dvd, but when I try, it won't record because they are copyright protected. They are not available on dvd (otherwise I'd just buy them)

I've seen some gadgets (http://www.xdimax.com/dvd/dvdredpro.html) out there to remove the Macrovision protection, but do those work on the ES20?

Any suggestions?
Check out this gadget and they said you have a 15 day free trial. If you are copying vcr tapes it has alway work for me. It doesn't alway work with dvd to dvd copy.
I have had one for about ten years(before there was dvd) and has never failed me yet.
http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer.html

What firmware version does the machine show now that you have the new firmware upgrade? Mine is 00000103 (without the upgrade), and I bought it about 2-3 months ago.

You can find the firmware version by:
a) Press SETUP on the remote
b) Use the arrow keys on the remote to go to the menu option "Display"
c) Press the DISPLAY button on the remote control
d) Your firmware version appears for a few seconds on the screen!

The firmware number i got was 00000103. I guess I had an old firmware when I bought it last month.

The firmware number i got was 00000103. I guess I had an old firmware when I bought it last month.

Thanks! It is possible that Panasonic is not changing the firmware version with the updates. I think some people in another thread for the EH50 are saying that the version does not change after they do the firmware update. Perhaps it's a minor version update that doesn't show with the Display button.

My Sony KLVS32a10 has a component in and an HDMI connection. Stupid question that I think the answer is no but here goes:

Can the cable box be connected into the back of the DVD recorder via S-cable and then out via component to the tv and still get Hi-Def on the tv?

By using this connection, can I watch tv and dvd (by switching back and forth) both through the component video connection to the tv? Do I need to control channel changing through the DVD recorder? Thanks.

All your dvd recorder will output is 480P(progressive scan) via it's component output. If you want to watch HD you will have to connect cable box component out or hdmi straight to tv Hd input.

Will the ES20's S-Video connection output Progressive Scan? So my thought was to connect DVD to the S-Video on tv for and then cable box to component input.

The SONY klvs32a10 only has one component input on the back of the tv. It also has one HDMI on the side of the tv (not on the back, which is strange b/c I can't connect to HDMI without cables dangling outside of the tv and looped around the mount.

No the S-video puts out 480I. Component puts out 480P(progessive scan)
I don't know whether your cable box puts out HD or not. If it is a digital box I am sure it does. In simple terms HD is 720 or 1080 lines of information sent to TV. and analog tv is 480 lines of information sent to tv. Your ES20 component can only send out 480I or 480P. On a 32in. tv the ES20 component output will look great on your tv at 480P(progressive scan) but not quite as good as HD straight from cable box to tv. You just need to check out both and see what you are happy with.
Here is a good article on how HD tv works.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/hdtv.htm

Anyone had a loss of video signal on the ES-20? I've had one hooked into my system for 3wks. Burned a couple of -R off my Ultimate TV DVR and play a number of rented DVDs. Sat. morning I hooked up my VCR to the unit to copy a tape recorded off a TV news program. Sound came through, but only one frame of frozen video. This was with a S-video hook up. Changed to RF, same thing sound but no video. Hooked up to my DVR again with S-video. Passed through the sound but no video. Tried playing a commercial DVD bypassing all input hookups. Sound but no video. Pulled all of the plugs and put my old JVC DVD player back in to watch a DVD Saturday night. Sunday morning I reconnected the ES-20 to trouble shoot. Everything worked fine!! Hooked in the VCR and recoded my news program with no problems. Hooked the ES-20 back up to the DVR and recorded a program off the HD and played it back. No problem. Can't figure out if I hit the wrong button on the ES-20 remote to loose video or what.

Don't have a ES20 so can't say for sure but it looks like somehow it got changed from 480I(interlaced)to 480P(progressive scan) or visa versa. This will cause a problem like you are talking about.

Well I decided to keep the ES20 & opened the box & hooked it up. I was holding out for a good deal on a unit with a HDD, but nothing has shown up in the past couple weeks. I got the ES20 at BB when on sale for a few bucks off & also got their rebate which I have to send in. This amounts to a 30% discount from retail price. So I figured it's a keeper.

So far it works fine & picture looks good on my old 27" Sony XBR CRT set. 4HR (SP) looks quite good and 6HR (EP) looks a little soft, but I have to try recording some more. I don't know what it will look like when I upgrade to a larger set, but for now I'm satisfied.

I'm amazed at how well the "chase play" works. This is one feature I wanted & I knew the ES20 did this with DVD-RAM. I'm curious, does anyone know how large a memory buffer this unit has in order to accomplish this?

Mike

Well I decided to keep the ES20 & opened the box & hooked it up. I was holding out for a good deal on a unit with a HDD, but nothing has shown up in the past couple weeks. I got the ES20 at BB when on sale for a few bucks off & also got their rebate which I have to send in. This amounts to a 30% discount from retail price. So I figured it's a keeper.

So far it works fine & picture looks good on my old 27" Sony XBR CRT set. 4HR (SP) looks quite good and 6HR (EP) looks a little soft, but I have to try recording some more. I don't know what it will look like when I upgrade to a larger set, but for now I'm satisfied.


Yeah, I too find the 6hr EP mode soft and smoothed out, but I use it when the picture doesn't matter - eg when there is a talking head and very few graphics/pictures of interest. Interestingly South Park looks okay at 8hr EP. But that's the only thing I use the 8hr EP mode for :) For things with motion I have found the 4:30-4:40FR a good trade-off over 6hr EP, and it sometimes has fewer movement artifacts than 4hr LP.




I'm amazed at how well the "chase play" works. This is one feature I wanted & I knew the ES20 did this with DVD-RAM. I'm curious, does anyone know how large a memory buffer this unit has in order to accomplish this?
Mike

Yes, compared to the Comcast DVR's "chase play" especially when the Comcast DVR goes in remote control command buffering and gets sluggish, the ES20 with DVD-RAM is like a breath of fresh air. Pressing fast forward actually moves FF instantly instead of hesitating like the Comcast DVR. I don't know if they do it with a memory buffer or directly from the disk or a combination of both - since I think DVD-RAM is like a random-access hard drive.

The only annoying thing with ES20's Chase-Play is that they shut it off when the recording ends, so you have to manually pick it up from the last point if you don't finish on time. I end up adding another 15 minutes of padding to the timer recording, so it doesn't stop on me :)

I did a timer recording during the day, figured I'd better make sure this works. When I came home the front panel looked like it was displaying the letters "NV". Could have been something else, but sure looked like NV. I could not find anything in the manual what this indicated. The recording looked fine, so it obviously worked. But what do these letters mean?

Mike

I'm amazed at how well the "chase play" works. This is one feature I wanted & I knew the ES20 did this with DVD-RAM. I'm curious, does anyone know how large a memory buffer this unit has in order to accomplish this?

Mike

As far as I know, chase play works by "reading" from an earlier part of the recording while continually "writing" the program as it is input into the recorder. There is no buffer involved.

As far as I know, chase play works by "reading" from an earlier part of the recording while continually "writing" the program as it is input into the recorder. There is no buffer involved.


But how does the laser handle reading & writing at the same time? I would think the laser has to be jumping all over the disc. If it's reading data, then it can't be writing data. Would it have to store some data at some point in time? I don't know, but it sure doesn't seem to skip a beat.

Mike

But how does the laser handle reading & writing at the same time? I would think the laser has to be jumping all over the disc. If it's reading data, then it can't be writing data. Would it have to store some data at some point in time? I don't know, but it sure doesn't seem to skip a beat.

Mike
It doesn't read and write at same time but when you are talking about micro and nana seconds your eyes can't see the different.

It doesn't read and write at same time but when you are talking about micro and nana seconds your eyes can't see the different.

Exactly...

I did a timer recording during the day, figured I'd better make sure this works. When I came home the front panel looked like it was displaying the letters "NV". Could have been something else, but sure looked like NV. I could not find anything in the manual what this indicated. The recording looked fine, so it obviously worked. But what do these letters mean?

Mike

I don't recall seeing a "NV" on the front panel during/after a Timer recording with non-RAM discs.

But the front panel displays "NV" (or something similar to that) when you press the Direct Navigator button on the remote. But I am not sure how the machine would get to Direct Navigator on its own after a recording, unless you were using a DVD-RAM, you left it in Direct Navigator mode after the Timer started recording, and it stayed like that after the Timer recording finished? I haven't tried this combination so I am only speculating above.

I have very precious VCR tape recordings of my granddaughter going back to 1988.
kpb

Yes, you can use the Yellow video out from your VCR (or S-Video if it has it) and put it in the front (Video 2) of the DVD Recorder. On the recorder, just set the channel to Video 2. Then hit play on VCR and record on the DVD recorder. Very simple once you try it!

I bought the ES20 for the family (ok, sort of for me) for Xmas so only opened it on Sunday. So far so good!

I absolutely love the "chase and play" feature, no more commercials for me! Chase and play is when you can watch what you recorded while it's still recording. So start recording, then hit PLAY, and you watch from the beginning. Very nice feature (but must be used with a DVD-RAM disc).

Also, I hooked up my JVC Dig Camcorder and it worked also, recording. Nice. So far I love the ES20. No more video tape recording ever again!

I don't recall seeing a "NV" on the front panel during/after a Timer recording with non-RAM discs.

But the front panel displays "NV" (or something similar to that) when you press the Direct Navigator button on the remote. But I am not sure how the machine would get to Direct Navigator on its own after a recording, unless you were using a DVD-RAM, you left it in Direct Navigator mode after the Timer started recording, and it stayed like that after the Timer recording finished? I haven't tried this combination so I am only speculating above.


I guess I could have left the unit in Direct Navigator mode. I tried a couple other timer recordings and did not get this. But I did a short "live" recording and used up all the disc space and ended up with "NV" again. And I was playing with the Direct Navigator and chase play at the time. So "NV" is probably short for "Navigator". I'll play a bit more & see what happens. I just want to make sure I'm not getting a strange error message.

Thanks for the information,

Mike

It doesn't read and write at same time but when you are talking about micro and nana seconds your eyes can't see the different.


No offense meant & I hope none taken, but I can't see the laser moving or focusing to different areas of the disc in nanoseconds. Just think how long it takes when you do a chapter or title search. From what I have seen & read, the laser assembly physically moves across the disc. And this takes time. Not a lot, but I don't think physically possible to go back & forth across the disc in nanoseconds.

I've had my CD player apart and the laser assembly rides on rails. I have not taken a DVD player apart, but I'm guessing basically works the same. Maybe these newer DVD Recorders use a vastly faster mechanical system. I don't know. I just can't visualize mechanical parts moving fast enough to do the job.

Mike

I actually came across this a few days ago when searching for how Chase Play works. It's from the Pioneer web site and is in reference to their DVD recorders with HDD and Chase Play. This is only a snippet, but refers to a buffer.

"Good news: thanks to the Hard Disk Drive, you don’t need to wait until the recording’s done. You can watch the program from the beginning as the rest of the program is being recorded. [Again, how big is the buffer, how many minutes?]"

The sentence in brackets ending with a question mark is Pioneer's, not mine. This eludes to the fact that HDD models use a buffer. I'm presuming non-HDD recorders would need the same. But I admit that is a presumption.

Mike

PS - complete Pioneer url:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/0,,2076_4137_270670725,00.html

No offense meant & I hope none taken, but I can't see the laser moving or focusing to different areas of the disc in nanoseconds. Just think how long it takes when you do a chapter or title search. From what I have seen & read, the laser assembly physically moves across the disc. And this takes time. Not a lot, but I don't think physically possible to go back & forth across the disc in nanoseconds.

I've had my CD player apart and the laser assembly rides on rails. I have not taken a DVD player apart, but I'm guessing basically works the same. Maybe these newer DVD Recorders use a vastly faster mechanical system. I don't know. I just can't visualize mechanical parts moving fast enough to do the job.

Mike

OK skeptic, read this blurb from Panasonic, which describes some of the functions of the DMR-ES10/20 DVD recorders:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/es20_es10/other_features.html

In it you will see a description of "chasing play", which is viewing an earlier part of a program currently being recorded, and "simultaneous recording and playback", which is viewing a previously recorded program while recording a different program.

Now, explain to me how simultaneous recording and playback can be accomplished if the laser cannot move fast enough to accomplish these 2 tasks at the same time.

Convinced? ;)

Okay, does this model produce closed-captioning correctly? See, I have this older DMR-E50, which is fairly good, but it won't playback a disc that's in DVD+R. And I got a DMR-ES40V or whatever it is, a combo DVD/VHS unit, and, for some reason, the video output on the TV tuner and the Line input is just awful. I don't know if there's anything that can be adjusted. Does the ES20 have this problem as well?

OK skeptic, read this blurb from Panasonic, which describes some of the functions of the DMR-ES10/20 DVD recorders:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/es20_es10/other_features.html

In it you will see a description of "chasing play", which is viewing an earlier part of a program currently being recorded, and "simultaneous recording and playback", which is viewing a previously recorded program while recording a different program.

Now, explain to me how simultaneous recording and playback can be accomplished if the laser cannot move fast enough to accomplish these 2 tasks at the same time.

Convinced? ;)


There is no question that it is performing a simultaneous recording & playing function. It's obviously doing that. I'm just trying to find out what process or technology is used in order to accomplish this.

Mike

I have last years Panasonic DVD Recorder Catalog & under "DVD-RAM Makes It Possible" it has a drawing of a disc showing Orange pits & Blue pits on it & above the disc is an Orange item called Recording "ENCODER" pointing at the Orange pits & a Blue item called Playback "DECODER" pointing at the Blue pits.

So from what I get out of the drawing is that it might have 2 lasers in it or maybe the "Encoder" & "Decoder" both can talk to just one laser somehow & it lets you choose between using the "Encoder" or the "Decoder" depending on what your trying to do?

Maybe just like a computer (Which I know nothing about) "Read / Write" ?

I actually came across this a few days ago when searching for how Chase Play works. It's from the Pioneer web site and is in reference to their DVD recorders with HDD and Chase Play. This is only a snippet, but refers to a buffer.

"Good news: thanks to the Hard Disk Drive, you don’t need to wait until the recording’s done. You can watch the program from the beginning as the rest of the program is being recorded. [Again, how big is the buffer, how many minutes?]"

The sentence in brackets ending with a question mark is Pioneer's, not mine. This eludes to the fact that HDD models use a buffer. I'm presuming non-HDD recorders would need the same. But I admit that is a presumption.

Mike

PS - complete Pioneer url:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/0,,2076_4137_270670725,00.html


I think there is a buffer, but I don't know how big it is and how or if it is used during Chase play.

I think there is a buffer because when you press Direct Navigator the first time, there is a delay and disc-reading sound until it assembles the thumbnails and video clip for the highlighted thumbnail. When you exit/enter Direct Navigator again on the same disk in the same session it comes up instantenously - no delay to re-read them or reading-sound, so it must be buffering them somewhere. This happens with all types of DVDs.

As far as the Pioneer url, I think that's mostly marketing-speak, because their DVD-only models can write to DVD-RW(VR) which offers a similar Chase Play feature.

Did the firmware update...to the es20.... everything went as per instruction supplied from Panasonic.. Don't notice any changes as far as the menus are concerned. Seems ok....

Anyone else install it yet? I'm a new owner of the es20 and love it so far. But my old Memorex 4x -RW (or was it +RW) won't record. I'm hoping that the update will fix that. Anyone know?

What RW media do you all use? I had nearly 50 Sony DVD-R so I'm set for those.

Chase and play rocks! Now if only comcast would send a 1/2 decent signal...

I think there is a buffer, but I don't know how big it is and how or if it is used during Chase play.

I think there is a buffer because when you press Direct Navigator the first time, there is a delay and disc-reading sound until it assembles the thumbnails and video clip for the highlighted thumbnail. When you exit/enter Direct Navigator again on the same disk in the same session it comes up instantenously - no delay to re-read them or reading-sound, so it must be buffering them somewhere. This happens with all types of DVDs.

As far as the Pioneer url, I think that's mostly marketing-speak, because their DVD-only models can write to DVD-RW(VR) which offers a similar Chase Play feature.

The Panasonic DVD recorders do not use a buffer for chasing playback or simultaneous record/playback. Both of these fuctions rely on rapid movement of the HDD read/write head or laser assembly.

Anyone else install it yet? I'm a new owner of the es20 and love it so far. But my old Memorex 4x -RW (or was it +RW) won't record. I'm hoping that the update will fix that. Anyone know?

What RW media do you all use? I had nearly 50 Sony DVD-R so I'm set for those.

Chase and play rocks! Now if only comcast would send a 1/2 decent signal...

I have used 2x -RW from TDK and Sony without any problems. The 4x -RW from Office Depot had a minor glitch once, but more than 15 of them recorded with no problems. Panasonic won't record to +RW.

Maybe Comcastic will improve some now that they are removing the Pay Per View channels and moving them to On Demand.

Newbie question here, I just got the unit today. I bought the ES20 to convert about 30 or so vhs tapes (home movies). I will be using a 13" sd tv and vcr with the ES20 to do the recording. I want to use DVD-R or DVD-RW and I would like to play back the tapes in widescreen on a hd tv using another dvd player.

The manual says you can't record in 16:9 to a DVD-R/RW. I'm not sure what they mean. I know you can't record in hd and I won't be using this player to record any tv (sd or hd), but I do want to play back what I record from vhs in 16:9 widescreen. Will I be able to isng DVD-R/RW?

I've been giving this unit a test-drive today, and I noticed something odd that maybe you other Panny owners can explain for me. When I'm recording (or paused during recording), the status window occasionally appears for a few seconds in the upper-right corner of the screen. So far so good. But it seems to come on at erratic intervals. Sometimes it goes several minutes with showing up, then it might come on and off two or even three times in rapid succession. The only pattern of any kind I noticed was that I could almost always count on it to appear following a fade to black or a sudden large area of black appearing on the screen. Maybe it thinks, for a split-second, that it's not getting signal and that stimulates a status window?

I hope it's not a glitch. I would hate to undo all these cables and take it back. The actual recording and playback seem to run perfectly. The unit gets a little warm on top (on the fan side) after extended use, and I know you were saying yours never gets warm on the outside, so I also wonder if my fan is okay. I think the thing would really overheat and throw an error message or shut down if the fan wasn't working, but what do I know. Maybe I'm suffering from Nervous Owner Syndrome.....??

Yes, you can use the Yellow video out from your VCR (or S-Video if it has it) and put it in the front (Video 2) of the DVD Recorder. On the recorder, just set the channel to Video 2. Then hit play on VCR and record on the DVD recorder. Very simple once you try it!

I bought the ES20 for the family (ok, sort of for me) for Xmas so only opened it on Sunday. So far so good!

I absolutely love the "chase and play" feature, no more commercials for me! Chase and play is when you can watch what you recorded while it's still recording. So start recording, then hit PLAY, and you watch from the beginning. Very nice feature (but must be used with a DVD-RAM disc).

Also, I hooked up my JVC Dig Camcorder and it worked also, recording. Nice. So far I love the ES20. No more video tape recording ever again!

Many thanks for your response. I am going to work on my ES20 tonight and will let you know how I was doing.

I'm glad I ran found this forum! I've had the ES20s for about a week now. So far my only issue is I can't seem to play a finalized DVD on my Zenith DVD play (it is about 4 or 5 years old). Anyway, I had some questions I'm hoping that some on here can answer:

1) I would _love_ to be able to pull in some of the video I've recorded to my computer without finalizing the DVD. Is that possible?

2) The only DVDs I had when I purchased the unit were DVD+r and +rw I used in my computer DVD burner. I've been using the DVD-RAM and DVD+R. What advantage is there in getting the DVD-Rs? It seems like I can erase from the DVD+r disks (although after I finilized it I was able to pull off the 'deleted' footage by loading the disk in my computer. Although just 'playing' the DVD didn't show the deleted programs).

3) It seems like the TV tuner doesn't have as strong of a signal as the tuner on my TV and old VCR. This is kind of a bummer for me. I do have DISH, but my locals are pulled through an antenna. Is there anything I can do (outside of some type of booster (I believe I already have one)) to get help my signal?

I think that's about it for right now....

Thanks!

I've been giving this unit a test-drive today, and I noticed something odd that maybe you other Panny owners can explain for me. When I'm recording (or paused during recording), the status window occasionally appears for a few seconds in the upper-right corner of the screen. So far so good. But it seems to come on at erratic intervals. Sometimes it goes several minutes with showing up, then it might come on and off two or even three times in rapid succession. The only pattern of any kind I noticed was that I could almost always count on it to appear following a fade to black or a sudden large area of black appearing on the screen. Maybe it thinks, for a split-second, that it's not getting signal and that stimulates a status window?


I did notice something similar to what you are describing above: The front-panel-display shows the channel number instead of the recorded time ticking. A couple of times I glanced at the TV and it was a case of what you describe, either an extended black or perhaps short signal loss. But the recording was not interrupted. I am guessing it may be some sort of a warning sign so the user can take action if necessary?



I hope it's not a glitch. I would hate to undo all these cables and take it back. The actual recording and playback seem to run perfectly. The unit gets a little warm on top (on the fan side) after extended use, and I know you were saying yours never gets warm on the outside, so I also wonder if my fan is okay. I think the thing would really overheat and throw an error message or shut down if the fan wasn't working, but what do I know. Maybe I'm suffering from Nervous Owner Syndrome.....??

I think some increase in temperature after extended use is normal - it is not different from VCRs or other electronics after extended use. Warm is fine, I never noticed it getting hot - or even as warm/hot as the Comcast DVR, which is always in heat. Also in winter time, electronics feel hotter than they do in the summer/fall because of the relative differences/changes in temperature.

One thing that I did heat-wise: I had something within 3" of one of the side-grills, and I moved it further back, to increase the airflow, so if you have something similar, you can do that to ease the Nervous Owner Syndrome :-)

I'm glad I ran found this forum! I've had the ES20s for about a week now. So far my only issue is I can't seem to play a finalized DVD on my Zenith DVD play (it is about 4 or 5 years old). Anyway, I had some questions I'm hoping that some on here can answer:


I don't know if the Zenith plays recorded DVDs or if it is in the + or - camp. I have an ancient Apex and it does play the DVD+R, but needs a wildshot firmware hack on the drive to play DVD-R, which I am not going to do.



2) The only DVDs I had when I purchased the unit were DVD+r and +rw I used in my computer DVD burner. I've been using the DVD-RAM and DVD+R. What advantage is there in getting the DVD-Rs? It seems like I can erase from the DVD+r disks (although after I finilized it I was able to pull off the 'deleted' footage by loading the disk in my computer. Although just 'playing' the DVD didn't show the deleted programs).

Thanks!

Unless you have specific needs, they are more or less interchangeable. I am using both + and -, mainly because my only DVD player plays +R :-)

One thing is that the ES20 (and Panasonic in general) does not offer any of the +R advantages that you get with the +R DVD recorders (eg you cannot hide a chapter with the ES20 on +R). It sort of treats it like a -R.

There is a limitation of 49 titles per +R vs 99 titles per -R on the ES20, which is a non-issue really, unless you record many many short titles per single disk.

The time to start the first recording on a blank +R takes about 5 seconds, vs 1-2 seconds for a -R, but that's almost a non-issue. If it is an issue, you can always press Record, then Pause right away on the ES20 and your source, so the ES20 does whatever it needs to do, and then it start recording right away.

Playback-wise, Panasonic dvd players offer a couple of more things on -R (I think they are mentioned in the S29 dvd player thread) over +R, but that's only an issue if you have a Panasonic dvd player.

You can definately do that with the ES20 by connecting the VCR to one of the line-in inputs of the ES20. Some of the options you can control with the ES20:
* Recording mode (XP, SP, LP, EP, FR)
* Line-In NR (Noise Reduction) ON or OFF
* Choice of media -RAM, -R, +R, -RW(V)
* input black level: darker or lighter

You can make multiple recordings per disc, as long as there is space, so if you have 15 VCR tapes of 5 minutes each, you can record them as 15 separate titles on a single DVD disc using the SP mode.

Many thanks for your response. I have decided to keep ES20. At the moment I am trying to set up all my equipments but confused as there is no diagram for my set up. I will appreciate if you or anybody else help me on my set up.

I want to set up: (1) Cable Box (I'm with Rogers Cable System) (2) Television (3) DVD Player (4) VCR and (5) ES20 - DVD Recorder.

Current set up : Cable Box>TV>DVD Player> and > VCR (VCR is at the bottom in the TV stand.

Please, give me the details (if possible with diagram) of various cable directions etc.

Many thanks,
kpb

I think some increase in temperature after extended use is normal - it is not different from VCRs or other electronics after extended use. Warm is fine, I never noticed it getting hot - or even as warm/hot as the Comcast DVR, which is always in heat. Also in winter time, electronics feel hotter than they do in the summer/fall because of the relative differences/changes in temperature.

One thing that I did heat-wise: I had something within 3" of one of the side-grills, and I moved it further back, to increase the airflow, so if you have something similar, you can do that to ease the Nervous Owner Syndrome :-)

I see you mentioned "one of the side-grills." Mine only has one side-grill, on the right-hand side. I did follow your example and clear some extra space on that side though. I now think the warmth is just from the current that runs through the unit in Standby mode; it seems to be there all the time, whether I'm using the recorder or not. So I'm not going to worry about it. I just hadn't heard the fan going, so....

Yes, you can use the Yellow video out from your VCR (or S-Video if it has it) and put it in the front (Video 2) of the DVD Recorder. On the recorder, just set the channel to Video 2. Then hit play on VCR and record on the DVD recorder. Very simple once you try it!

I bought the ES20 for the family (ok, sort of for me) for Xmas so only opened it on Sunday. So far so good!

I absolutely love the "chase and play" feature, no more commercials for me! Chase and play is when you can watch what you recorded while it's still recording. So start recording, then hit PLAY, and you watch from the beginning. Very nice feature (but must be used with a DVD-RAM disc).

Also, I hooked up my JVC Dig Camcorder and it worked also, recording. Nice. So far I love the ES20. No more video tape recording ever again!

Many thanks. It appears that my posts are being denied by the web master of this forum. I have few start up problems with ES20 but no point in posting them if they are not accepted.

kpb

I don't know if the Zenith plays recorded DVDs or if it is in the + or - camp. I have an ancient Apex and it does play the DVD+R, but needs a wildshot firmware hack on the drive to play DVD-R, which I am not going to do.



Thanks for the response. My DVD burner in my computer uses the DVD+R disks and they work fine in the Zenith...on a side note, they work fine in the ES20 too! I read some posts saying that any home brewed DVDs don't play in the Panasonic, so I was glad when I was able to try it that they played.


Playback-wise, Panasonic dvd players offer a couple of more things on -R (I think they are mentioned in the S29 dvd player thread) over +R, but that's only an issue if you have a Panasonic dvd player.

I saw the S29 mentioned elsewhere. Looks like a good deal, but I think if I spend any more money it might be on a DVD drive that reads RAM files so I can pull in the video onto my computer if I want to....perhaps an external reader...yea.... ;)

Now, if I just could get the tuner to bring in channels a bit better I'd be set.

Great review! Thanks for taking the time to post all the data and impressions.
The project I am working on is transfering old, 'fair' quality VHS tapes from the 1970's to early '80s on to DVDs. The VCR player I have is a top grade pro unit (Panasonic 1980)
The idea of simply recording to a DVD recorder sounds appealing---it's simple and easy. Is this Panasonic what will do the job for me? That would be my only use for it.
It'd also be nice to have files of the tapes stored on a HD as backups/archives but that is NOT crucial. I could always just make extra DVDs.
Thanks again,
How786

I was doing a chase play & knew there was not enough disc space. I had hoped to be caught up before I ran out of room as only had about 10 minutes to go. No such luck. I got a message "recording stopped, disc full". While I was putting in disc #2, I was thinking; did the recording stop & also stop the chase play with 10 minutes to do? Or did the chase play keep going go to the end of the disc, even though the actual recording had stopped?

If the disc stopped because there was no more recording space, then I could not finish the last 10 min of chase play. After disc #2 was insert, I would have to wait till it was finished, then back to disc #1 to watch the last 10 min.

If I was watching the last 10 min using chase play, that meant nothing new was being recorded for the last 10 min. Disc #2 could start recording, however there would be a 10 min gap. And this does turn out to be the case, BTW.

Anyway, I later went back to disc #1 and the last 1 1/2 hours that I was watching with chase play was not on the disc! It was there when I watched it. But not there now.

I did some trial recordings, purposefully running out of disc space, & doing chase play. The 2nd time I tried this scenario, the recorded program was on the disc when I finished. I did again & this 3rd time the program was gone, same as 1st time. So I tried a 4th time & now it saved the program. That's a 50/50 chance of retaining the recording.

Something is being triggered some of the time that makes the cut-short recording disappear. I don't know what series of events causes this, and maybe it happened because I was using chase play. But it did not always happen.

Has anyone else experienced missing programs when running out of disc space?

Mike

I see you mentioned "one of the side-grills." Mine only has one side-grill, on the right-hand side. I did follow your example and clear some extra space on that side though. I now think the warmth is just from the current that runs through the unit in Standby mode; it seems to be there all the time, whether I'm using the recorder or not. So I'm not going to worry about it. I just hadn't heard the fan going, so....

Oh you are right! It only has one grill on the fan-side. For some reason I was under the impression it had one on each side, but I looked after you mentioned it and it only has one. I better go and change the text in my original post :-)

Great review! Thanks for taking the time to post all the data and impressions.
The project I am working on is transfering old, 'fair' quality VHS tapes from the 1970's to early '80s on to DVDs. The VCR player I have is a top grade pro unit (Panasonic 1980)
The idea of simply recording to a DVD recorder sounds appealing---it's simple and easy. Is this Panasonic what will do the job for me? That would be my only use for it.
It'd also be nice to have files of the tapes stored on a HD as backups/archives but that is NOT crucial. I could always just make extra DVDs.
Thanks again,
How786

You are welcome :-) Ultimately it is your preference on what level of quality is good enough, as different people have different preferences. Since your primary interest is VHS tape transfer, there was a discussion on the ES20 vs the ES10 for recordings from VHS sources in the vcdhelp.com (or videohelp) url mentioned a couple of pages ago in this thread.

This is my first and only DVD recorder so I can't really compare it to anything else.

I was doing a chase play & knew there was not enough disc space. I had hoped to be caught up before I ran out of room as only had about 10 minutes to go. No such luck. I got a message "recording stopped, disc full". While I was putting in disc #2, I was thinking; did the recording stop & also stop the chase play with 10 minutes to do? Or did the chase play keep going go to the end of the disc, even though the actual recording had stopped?

If the disc stopped because there was no more recording space, then I could not finish the last 10 min of chase play. After disc #2 was insert, I would have to wait till it was finished, then back to disc #1 to watch the last 10 min.

If I was watching the last 10 min using chase play, that meant nothing new was being recorded for the last 10 min. Disc #2 could start recording, however there would be a 10 min gap. And this does turn out to be the case, BTW.

Anyway, I later went back to disc #1 and the last 1 1/2 hours that I was watching with chase play was not on the disc! It was there when I watched it. But not there now.

I did some trial recordings, purposefully running out of disc space, & doing chase play. The 2nd time I tried this scenario, the recorded program was on the disc when I finished. I did again & this 3rd time the program was gone, same as 1st time. So I tried a 4th time & now it saved the program. That's a 50/50 chance of retaining the recording.

Something is being triggered some of the time that makes the cut-short recording disappear. I don't know what series of events causes this, and maybe it happened because I was using chase play. But it did not always happen.

Has anyone else experienced missing programs when running out of disc space?

Mike

You may have uncovered a bug!

I haven't been using DVD-RAM with Chase-play a lot because of the Comcast DVR, so I don't have any experience with this.

The only thing I remember: once I tested recording ABC's Lost/Invasion on a DVD-RAM with the Timer and started Chase-Play after 15 minutes, and it stopped Chase Play while I was watching when the Timer ended, but I was able to go back and replay the last few minutes.

Did you only notice the problem only when it ran out of disk space on a live recording, or also when using a Timer? My random hypothesis: If this only happens with live recordings, then the ES20 may get swamped by Chase Play and abrupt post-processing of disc-full and then it screws up the saved program?

I'll try to do a similar experiment, but it may take a few days before I get around to it, unless I find a DVD-RAM that is almost full, and I won't mind if it gets deleted, so I can quickly test it.

You may have uncovered a bug!

I haven't been using DVD-RAM with Chase-play a lot because of the Comcast DVR, so I don't have any experience with this.

The only thing I remember: once I tested recording ABC's Lost/Invasion on a DVD-RAM with the Timer and started Chase-Play after 15 minutes, and it stopped Chase Play while I was watching when the Timer ended, but I was able to go back and replay the last few minutes.

Did you only notice the problem only when it ran out of disk space on a live recording, or also when using a Timer? My random hypothesis: If this only happens with live recordings, then the ES20 may get swamped by Chase Play and abrupt post-processing of disc-full and then it screws up the saved program?

I'll try to do a similar experiment, but it may take a few days before I get around to it, unless I find a DVD-RAM that is almost full, and I won't mind if it gets deleted, so I can quickly test it.



I had the problem while doing a live program & using chase play. I have not tried to duplicate it when doing a timer program, but that is my concern. What happens if I make a mistake & set the time too long & over-fill the disc? Will I lose that last program? My thought was the same as yours - does it get screwed up with chase play sometimes & not do proper post-processing of disc-full. But I'm not sure what, if any, post-processing is done when ending a DVD-RAM recording.

I'm just going to let the machine record while I am watching TV & load up the disc several times & see what happens. Hopefully there will be no errors this way.

Mike

I had the problem while doing a live program & using chase play. I have not tried to duplicate it when doing a timer program, but that is my concern. What happens if I make a mistake & set the time too long & over-fill the disc? Will I lose that last program? My thought was the same as yours - does it get screwed up with chase play sometimes & not do proper post-processing of disc-full. But I'm not sure what, if any, post-processing is done when ending a DVD-RAM recording.

I'm just going to let the machine record while I am watching TV & load up the disc several times & see what happens. Hopefully there will be no errors this way.

Mike

Yeah, it doesn't show the wait and % when a DVD-RAM recording is stopped but it is doing something behind the scenes, as the machine is not resposive instantenously right after I press a button right after I press stop. It also does something after I press STOP when I mark a chapter on a DVD-RAM during playback. Maybe for marketing purposes they want to show the users that DVD-RAM is faster and they don't show the % screen :-)

Another user is reporting an audio sync problem in the recording if they use Chase Play while recording. I will try to reproduce it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6831501#post6831501

Many thanks for your response. I have decided to keep ES20. At the moment I am trying to set up all my equipments but confused as there is no diagram for my set up. I will appreciate if you or anybody else help me on my set up.

I want to set up: (1) Cable Box (I'm with Rogers Cable System) (2) Television (3) DVD Player (4) VCR and (5) ES20 - DVD Recorder.

Current set up : Cable Box>TV>DVD Player> and > VCR (VCR is at the bottom in the TV stand.

Please, give me the details (if possible with diagram) of various cable directions etc.

Many thanks,
kpb
kpb, what inputs are available on your TV? Some examples are 1. coaxial (standard cable wire). 2. yellow 3. S-video, 4. Component (3 wires, yellow, blue and green) - on my tv the component also works as the yellow input.

The reason I ask is that the answer for how to configure will be different depending on how many inputs your TV has.

Here is my setup. I run the cable wire into my ES20. The cable wire then runs into my TV (from the ES20 cable out). I run S-Video out from the ES20 into my TV (video 2). I run a yellow one from my VCR to my TV (video 1). Lastly, my video 3 is used by the Gamecube.

I don't run cable to my VCR anymore so ALL recording must go thru the ES20.

Many thanks. It appears that my posts are being denied by the web master of this forum. I have few start up problems with ES20 but no point in posting them if they are not accepted.

kpb
Not sure why - did you put a URL in the post? Until you have 5 posts you're not allowed to add URLs.

I got this because we were supposed to be able to record in 16x9 on DVD-RAM. Yet I have had no luck recording any hi def 16x9 programs in 16x9. Am I completely missing something or is the info on the ES20 wrong?

Thanks AkaStp. That must be it

I had the problem while doing a live program & using chase play. I have not tried to duplicate it when doing a timer program, but that is my concern. What happens if I make a mistake & set the time too long & over-fill the disc? Will I lose that last program? My thought was the same as yours - does it get screwed up with chase play sometimes & not do proper post-processing of disc-full. But I'm not sure what, if any, post-processing is done when ending a DVD-RAM recording.

I'm just going to let the machine record while I am watching TV & load up the disc several times & see what happens. Hopefully there will be no errors this way.

Mike

I tried a quick one with 6 minutes XP left and did as you described. The 6 minutes were recorded on the DVD-RAM as expected. I will try more extended tests later on.

One thing I forgot to ask is how did you initiate Chase Play? With the Time-Slip button or the Direct Navigator? The one I tried above was initiated with the Direct Navigator.

I tried a quick one with 6 minutes XP left and did as you described. The 6 minutes were recorded on the DVD-RAM as expected. I will try more extended tests later on.

One thing I forgot to ask is how did you initiate Chase Play? With the Time-Slip button or the Direct Navigator? The one I tried above was initiated with the Direct Navigator.

Try pressing play while recording. (Works that way on the ES10.)

Check out this gadget and they said you have a 15 day free trial. If you are copying vcr tapes it has alway work for me. It doesn't alway work with dvd to dvd copy.
I have had one for about ten years(before there was dvd) and has never failed me yet.
http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer.html


Well, I just bought one off ebay for $25, so once I get it I'll test it out and see what happens and report back. :)

Try pressing play while recording. (Works that way on the ES10.)

Yes, that works too! Three different ways to initiate Chase Play!

Not sure why - did you put a URL in the post? Until you have 5 posts you're not allowed to add URLs.

No, I did not put URL.

I tried a quick one with 6 minutes XP left and did as you described. The 6 minutes were recorded on the DVD-RAM as expected. I will try more extended tests later on.

One thing I forgot to ask is how did you initiate Chase Play? With the Time-Slip button or the Direct Navigator? The one I tried above was initiated with the Direct Navigator.


I initiated Chase Play by just pressing the Play button while recording.

I noticed an interesting thing when Chase Playing to the end of full disc. Look at the Status screen. While it does show you are playing, it also indicates the unit is still recording. Obviously it is not because it ran out of room. And the Weather Channel I recorded does show their time, and nothing was recorded during those minutes while Chase Play was finishing up. Just an observation.

Mike

Great info in this particular thread, but I don't read of anyone in here that has the DirecTV HR10-250(Hi-Def Tivo box).....all I want to do is burn DVD's from my DirecTV HR10-250 with TiVo box. It's fairly simple really, but for some reason I am confused. Is there a simple way to do this? The instructions that come with the device are fairly vague....any help is appreciated!

I initiated Chase Play by just pressing the Play button while recording.

I noticed an interesting thing when Chase Playing to the end of full disc. Look at the Status screen. While it does show you are playing, it also indicates the unit is still recording. Obviously it is not because it ran out of room. And the Weather Channel I recorded does show their time, and nothing was recorded during those minutes while Chase Play was finishing up. Just an observation.

Mike

Interesting... That's a good idea. I'll try the Weather Channel since it has the time on the screen.

I see you mentioned "one of the side-grills." Mine only has one side-grill, on the right-hand side. I did follow your example and clear some extra space on that side though. I now think the warmth is just from the current that runs through the unit in Standby mode; it seems to be there all the time, whether I'm using the recorder or not. So I'm not going to worry about it. I just hadn't heard the fan going, so....
I've had the ES20 for about a month now, and everything works great and I'm cranking out DVDs.

But this comment caught my attention because I've noticed the same thing. Does anyone know what kind of noise the cooling fan is supposed to make? Is it fairly loud and noticeable, or very quiet? I ask because as far as I can tell the fan on my unit makes virtually no noise. I don't know if that's normal or if it's because the fan is defective.

On a possibly related note, my unit generates a good amount of heat (not scalding hot, just warm) off the top panel like GanChan's, and also does this even when it's turned off and not in use. At the same time there isn't much heat at all coming from the side or back vents. I do have only about an inch or two of space where the side vent is, but the back is wide open. Does the clearance make that much difference?

Thanks in advance for tolerating my newbie questions. Great thread by the way. NCAA, your detailed comments and review are part of the reason I decided to go with this unit as my first DVD recorder, and I couldn't be happier so far.

The fans on my Panansonic E-500 and E-65 recorders are whisper quiet, and I can't hear them.

I just purchased this model, and the picture quality through the input is degraded, as is the closed-captioning. This is the exact same problem I had with the ES-40V! Somehow, I think this year's models just are not good. I have a DMR-E30 from a few years ago, and it was MUCH more expensive. I think the problem is, since the newer ones can read everything, there are other things that they don't do very well, and this is one of them.

Has anyone else encountered problems with +R disks when scheduling a 3 to 4 hour record using FR recording mode?

I just bought this recorder and I am 5 for 5 (2 different brands of +R media) for the recorder stopping the scheduled FR recording early at EXACTLY 2hr 38min each time. It claims the disk is full, but if you look at the actual surface of the DVD there is definitely a fair amount of blank space left. Note the 2h 38min of show did record properly and was able to be finalized.

I attempted the exact same type of recording using -R and RAM disks and they work just fine. The fact that it stops early at the exact same time smells of s/w bug. Note I did download the latest Panasonic firmware from their site, but after loading it into the recorder, this problem didn't go away.

This is really frustrating because my other DVD players don't like -R disks :(

I just purchased this model, and the picture quality through the input is degraded, as is the closed-captioning. This is the exact same problem I had with the ES-40V! Somehow, I think this year's models just are not good. I have a DMR-E30 from a few years ago, and it was MUCH more expensive. I think the problem is, since the newer ones can read everything, there are other things that they don't do very well, and this is one of them.

Did you try turning off the Line-In NR (noise reduction)? It's set to "on" by default. So is the playback MPEG-DNR. The combination of the input video noise reduction and playback MPEG video noise reduction noticeably softens the picture of anything you record through the analog (s-video or composite) inputs. You can shut both of these off by pressing the Display button on the remote and going to the Video options. When there is a disc that is set to play in the machine, you can access and shut off the MPEG-DNR. When there is a writable disc loaded in the machine and ready to record, you can access the Line-In NR and shut it off.

The older E30 you mentioned not only didn't have any video noise reduction filters, but didn't have any input video black level adjustment, either.

Did you try turning off the Line-In NR (noise reduction)? It's set to "on" by default. So is the playback MPEG-DNR. The combination of the input video noise reduction and playback MPEG video noise reduction noticeably softens the picture of anything you record through the analog (s-video or composite) inputs. You can shut both of these off by pressing the Display button on the remote and going to the Video options. When there is a disc that is set to play in the machine, you can access and shut off the MPEG-DNR. When there is a writable disc loaded in the machine and ready to record, you can access the Line-In NR and shut it off.

The older E30 you mentioned not only didn't have any video noise reduction filters, but didn't have any input video black level adjustment, either.
That's actually good advice. Maybe I'll re-hook it up sometime and check it out. But, also, the RF input doesn't work very well at all. When I ran the cable wire directly into it, it just looked like horrible reception. Is there a way to adjust this?

I just purchased an ES 20 and have a couple questions:

I am using the TV/ES20 through a digital cable box.

1. I assume I must have the cable box set to the channel I want to record using the "timer" setting because there is no "mouse" or other device (i-link) to automatically change the channels for me while I am away...is the correct?

2. If I want the ES 20 to automatically switch channels to record via the timer, I must have a direct coax feed into the ES 20 from a splitter....correct?

3. If the above is true, I can only record non-digital cable channels, similar to when the is hooked up to a cable-ready TV...correct?

Thanks in advance for your help!

x16x16,

Your are correct on all counts. I too have a digital cable box & use a splitter, which I used before I got the ES20. I only use the cable box for a couple channels, but is does screw things up a bit.

Here's what I did using my VCR, and presume it will work with the ES20 & your cable box. One side of the splitter feeds the VCR RF input. One side feeds the cable box. Cable box composite video out feeds the VCR composite video input. So the VCR is fed by two inputs.

For example, I leave my cable box on & tuned to the SciFi channel, which I need the digital cable box for. Now presuming & hoping everything else I want to record is available from the analog RF cable, I'm OK. VCR is programmed to record analog RF channels & also the line input when it needs to. Obviously I'm limited to one digital channel this way, but at least I can get it.

Not a perfect solution, but better than nothing. I'm presuming the ES20 can be programmed thru the line inputs also, but I have not yet tried this.

My Comcast Motorola digital cable box can be programmed to turn on/off & change channels, but only for 3-4 days, which is all that the EPG is good for. They refer to this a "Record" function. Obviously the box doesn't record, but allows you some flexibility in recording. Of course you also have to program your recorder to turn on/off at the same times. So if you have this same box, you could program it for for several programs and/or a few days.

Mike

I've had the ES20 for about a month now, and everything works great and I'm cranking out DVDs.

But this comment caught my attention because I've noticed the same thing. Does anyone know what kind of noise the cooling fan is supposed to make? Is it fairly loud and noticeable, or very quiet? I ask because as far as I can tell the fan on my unit makes virtually no noise. I don't know if that's normal or if it's because the fan is defective.

I can't hear the fan but it's never totally quiet here. I didn't attempt to hear if it makes any sounds though.


On a possibly related note, my unit generates a good amount of heat (not scalding hot, just warm) off the top panel like GanChan's, and also does this even when it's turned off and not in use. At the same time there isn't much heat at all coming from the side or back vents. I do have only about an inch or two of space where the side vent is, but the back is wide open. Does the clearance make that much difference?

Compared to my other electronics (cable box, VCRs, etc) the amount of heat is similar or less, definately less than the Comcast DVR box. I have about 6 inches of space on the fan-side grill. I have also turned off the "Quick Start" feature. I believe it consumes more power and keeps circuits active so it is ready when you turn it on, so that may be increasing the temperature a little bit? It is very fast for me without Quick Start anyways.





Thanks in advance for tolerating my newbie questions. Great thread by the way. NCAA, your detailed comments and review are part of the reason I decided to go with this unit as my first DVD recorder, and I couldn't be happier so far.
Thanks! I'm glad my comments were helpful. I didn't know much about DVD recorders until I found this site/forum, and I learned a lot by reading and asking questions here. So I am contributing back by writing my experience on this machine.

Has anyone else encountered problems with +R disks when scheduling a 3 to 4 hour record using FR recording mode?

I just bought this recorder and I am 5 for 5 (2 different brands of +R media) for the recorder stopping the scheduled FR recording early at EXACTLY 2hr 38min each time. It claims the disk is full, but if you look at the actual surface of the DVD there is definitely a fair amount of blank space left. Note the 2h 38min of show did record properly and was able to be finalized.

I attempted the exact same type of recording using -R and RAM disks and they work just fine. The fact that it stops early at the exact same time smells of s/w bug. Note I did download the latest Panasonic firmware from their site, but after loading it into the recorder, this problem didn't go away.

This is really frustrating because my other DVD players don't like -R disks :(

Wow there is magic in the 2hr 38 minute number!! I got a couple of those exactly as you described it with 2hr 38 minutes!!! Details are in "Possible Bug #2" in the first post in this thread. But it is not happening every time in my case.

FR in the Timer/Scheduler sometimes has a mind of its own (as far as the recording level) when not using a blank disc [Possible Bug #5 above], and it sometimes reports millions of hours left (!) on a DVD when using 3-4 hour FR mode [Possible Bug #7]. I have the original firmware. I only use FR in the Timer when i am using a blank/empty disc. Otherwise I use the FR live (with F-Rec button or through the Flexing Recording menu) which works as expected, but it is not schedulable nor it turns off the machine after it is done.

Has anyone updated the firmware on their ES20?

How do you check which version is already in your unit? The thread that discusses this mentions how to check the version on another model, but I seem to recall the ES20 doesn't have the same buttons as mentioned on the front panel.

Mike

Thanks for the response - I did read this entire thread, but I must have missed your reference to this (I actually read most of it before I bought the recorder and started having this problem).

At least for me, it happens every time with +R disks (always blank before I started)...it sounds like you have had at least one +R disk go past the 2:38 mark under this type of recording scenario?

To try to isolate the problem from just a scheduled recording, I tried a "live FR" 3:30 recording last night (not scheduled) and it also stopped at 2:38. Thus for at least me, it seems to be a problem with the FR algorithm when used with +R blank media.

I have several email help requests into Panasonic about this, but I'm not convinced they will ever respond (and I seem to know way more than the guys I get ahold of on the phone) :(

Note I have done two "non FR" scheduled recordings with +R media with no problems (one 2 hour SP and one 4 hour LP). I guess until Panasonic acknowledges and fixes the problem, if I want to use +R disks I have to do a LR (4 hour) record and eat some degraded recording quality.

Also, I forgot to mention that my firmware reports the same number you have, even after I updated with the new version - apparently they didn't update this displayed number.

Has anyone updated the firmware on their ES20?

How do you check which version is already in your unit? The thread that discusses this mentions how to check the version on another model, but I seem to recall the ES20 doesn't have the same buttons as mentioned on the front panel.

Mike

The above method works for the ES20. It is the Display button on the remote control, not a button on the front panel. It's all remote control based. However, it doesn't seem to change with new firmware, and users of other Panasonic models show the same number as well. It may not get updated with new firmware or Panasonic just doesn't change it. Maybe another Panasonic bug?

At least for me, it happens every time with +R disks (always blank before I started)...it sounds like you have had at least one +R disk go past the 2:38 mark under this type of recording scenario?

Yes, the majority of the +R disks that I burnt with Timer/FR completed successfully. I mostly do 4:20-4:40 Timer FR (I can fit two games per DVD), but I have also done 3hr (good for SciFi Fridays) and others ranging from 2:40 to 3:45.



To try to isolate the problem from just a scheduled recording, I tried a "live FR" 3:30 recording last night (not scheduled) and it also stopped at 2:38. Thus for at least me, it seems to be a problem with the FR algorithm when used with +R blank media.

Wow it looks like it is more frequent on your ES20. Are you using the same type of media? Maybe it is sensitive to specific makers? I have been using +R a lot because my stand-alone player was +R (ancient Apex). I just got a Panasonic DVD player so now I'm switching to -R because the Panasonic dvd player (S29) has more playback features for non+R discs. Ironically, there is a bug in the Panasoic S29 dvd player when displaying the thumbnail screen of a finalized +R disc (DVD made by the ES20), yet my ancient Apex dvd player shows it correctly (!!!)

I think the underlying theme is that Panasonic seems to be treating +R as the poor cousin of -R. Or maybe it is first-implementation bugs, since they recently started +R support. Hopefully with Pioneer going all-format it will put more pressure on others to really support all formats.




I have several email help requests into Panasonic about this, but I'm not convinced they will ever respond (and I seem to know way more than the guys I get ahold of on the phone) :(

I have been trying to get a hold of their support for the DVD player bug but the expected wait time is 30 minutes, so I gave up for now.



Note I have done two "non FR" scheduled recordings with +R media with no problems (one 2 hour SP and one 4 hour LP). I guess until Panasonic acknowledges and fixes the problem, if I want to use +R disks I have to do a LR (4 hour) record and eat some degraded recording quality.

Also, I forgot to mention that my firmware reports the same number you have, even after I updated with the new version - apparently they didn't update this displayed number.

It looks like they either don't update the firmware version, or they have a bug in that process. Users of other Panasonic models also show the same version number!

Has anyone noticed that on the panasonic's websight, there is a new firmware update to the es20, dated 12/9/05.....I can't post the link...i have less than 5 posts

Has anybody updated their es20 with this firmware?


The only ES20 version I see on the panny website is dated 12/2/05?

Version - U3-150
Last Updated - 12/02/2005
Description - Updates RAM / DVD drive and improves compatibility with the most recent 8X and 16X DVD media. Also fixes weekly recording / region code bug.

By reading this thread and other reviews, it seems like this unit does not have a programming guide similar to tv guide.

But on circuit city's site, it says: "Show/View electronic program guide"

On Panasonic's web site, it says :
"Select this week's episode in the program guide, start recording, and as it records you can watch your recording of last week's episode."

On amazon, it says:
"Built-in analog TV tuner with 7-day electronic programming guide"

So, are all of those websites wrong, or what is the "program guide" it is referring to? It seems misleading if it is not similar to tvguide or the dvr types.

Can someone clarify this for me?

By reading this thread and other reviews, it seems like this unit does not have a programming guide similar to tv guide.

But on circuit city's site, it says: "Show/View electronic program guide"

On Panasonic's web site, it says :
"Select this week's episode in the program guide, start recording, and as it records you can watch your recording of last week's episode."

On amazon, it says:
"Built-in analog TV tuner with 7-day electronic programming guide"

So, are all of those websites wrong, or what is the "program guide" it is referring to? It seems misleading if it is not similar to tvguide or the dvr types.

Can someone clarify this for me?

The Panasonic DMR-ES20 does not have the TV Guide On Screen. Read the technical specs here: http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=94908&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&surfModel=DMR-ES20S&catGroupId=24987&surfCategory=DVD%20Recorders&displayTab=S

Also read the manual here: http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/DMRES20.PDF

I believe it does have timer recording scheduled using VCR+ codes, as well as manual timer settings.

I am fairly new to DVD recording and I wanted to get someone's opinion on whether I am making the correct connections or not. Thanks in advance.

Here is what I have.

Motorola Dual Tuner HD-DVR (6412 ?)
Panasonic ES20 DVD Recorder
Panasonic VCR
42" Panasonic Plasma

Right now I have the TV hooked up to my cable box via HDMI.
I have component cables running to the DVD recorder.

The rest I am not sure how to run.

In the manual it shows splittting the incoming cable with one line going to RF in on the DVD recorder and one line going to the RF in on the cable box.

Now do I run a line from the RF out on the DVD Recorder to the RF in on the VCR and then run a line from the RF out on the VCR to the RF in on the TV?

And then for my audio, do I then run each component back to my receiver? Or do I also need to run the audio from the VCR back to the DVD recorder?

Sorry if this is confusing.

By reading this thread and other reviews, it seems like this unit does not have a programming guide similar to tv guide.

But on circuit city's site, it says: "Show/View electronic program guide"

On Panasonic's web site, it says :
"Select this week's episode in the program guide, start recording, and as it records you can watch your recording of last week's episode."

On amazon, it says:
"Built-in analog TV tuner with 7-day electronic programming guide"

So, are all of those websites wrong, or what is the "program guide" it is referring to? It seems misleading if it is not similar to tvguide or the dvr types.

Can someone clarify this for me?

I have used the ES20 extensively and read the manual. It does not have any type of TV Guide/EPG system. Some of those websites just cut/paste stuff or use the same description for various models, so they can be confusing to potential buyers.

The above method works for the ES20. It is the Display button on the remote control, not a button on the front panel. It's all remote control based. However, it doesn't seem to change with new firmware, and users of other Panasonic models show the same number as well. It may not get updated with new firmware or Panasonic just doesn't change it. Maybe another Panasonic bug?


Sorry I missed that bit of infromation. And I do show the same firmware version as you mentioned.

Mike

Do you think the remote is good? The way I see it, the weakest feature of all these recorders are the remotes, and the Panny is one of the worst. Panny, are you listening?



Is it possible to operate the ES10/ES20 without a remote? Note, I ask because I've come across an ES10 without a remote, and I'm contemplating buying it. I only have one specific task in mind --> dub my VHS tapes onto DVD - with the need to enable Line-in NR.

Thanks

Is it possible to operate the ES10/ES20 without a remote? Note, I ask because I've come across an ES10 without a remote, and I'm contemplating buying it. I only have one specific task in mind --> dub my VHS tapes onto DVD - with the need to enable Line-in NR.

Thanks
Check out amazon site you should be able to order one for $12.80 plus shipping.
http://www.partstore.com/modeldetail.aspx?MfgId=91&ModelID=541355&close=0&exact=1&filter=remote

If it doesn't have manual here it is.
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/DMRES10.PDF

To answer your question, "Yes you will need the Remote"

Because you won't be able to set things like the Recording Speed & Finalizing DVD-R Discs & Etc because you can't get to the Menu System without it.

The Recorder doesn't have very many controls on the front panel only:

POWER (On/Off)
OPEN / CLOSE (DVD Tray)
PLAY
STOP
RECORD
CHANNEL (Up/Down)

So if you can get it at a good price just Figure the Remote is going to cost you around $25.00 or so delivered so try & push them to discount it $25.00 more to pay for the remote. :)

If you do want to fool with it before you get a remote MAKE SURE THE RECORDING SPEED IS SET TO "SP" before you take it home.

Any "Newer" Panasonic Recorder Remote in the store should be able to work it.

I purchased my (second) Panasonic ES20 yesterday (the first one didn't have a remote control). I hooked up the second one and have had no issues recording on Imation 8X DVD+R discs. I noticed at Best Buy that most, if not all, of the available media are now 16x. I bought a pack of Fujifilm 16x DVD-R discs to use next. I noticed the recorder box says it burns up to 8x. There's also an upgrade on the Panasonic website that says it "improves compatibility with the most recent 8X and 16X DVD media". My questions -

(1) Without the upgrade, will the 16x DVD-R discs work?

(2) With the upgrade, will the 16x DVD-R discs work?

(3) Should I load the upgrade from the Panasonic website?

Thank you.

I went to CC to get the $179 - 30 rebate price and they were out. I just wanted a rain check but some how ended up with a display model for $130. Wow. what a deal.
The first thing I did was record 24. It did an excellent job recording HD content compared to my Cyberhome 1600. I ordered some component cables and will give those a try when they come.

It would be great it somone could post some tips on getting the most out of the player.
Best settings or anything else useful.

Thanks

I purchased my (second) Panasonic ES20 yesterday (the first one didn't have a remote control). I hooked up the second one and have had no issues recording on Imation 8X DVD+R discs. I noticed at Best Buy that most, if not all, of the available media are now 16x. I bought a pack of Fujifilm 16x DVD-R discs to use next. I noticed the recorder box says it burns up to 8x. There's also an upgrade on the Panasonic website that says it "improves compatibility with the most recent 8X and 16X DVD media". My questions -

(1) Without the upgrade, will the 16x DVD-R discs work?



Without the upgrade, I have used Verbatim 16x DVD-R (50pk from Office Max, made in taiwan) without any problems so far. I also used some TDK DVD-R that the DVD says 16x and the cakebox says 8x (I'm assuming the DVD print is accurate so they should be 16x). I have also used a number of 8x (complete list in the first post on page 1 of this thread). From all of those the only one I am not so sure about are the Philips +R mentioned there.

I have not tried the firmware upgrade yet, but I have downloaded it :)

I have just purchased the DMR-ES20 and have started recording live TV and with my Scientific Atlanta 8000 from TW without any problems. I am having a problem with the scheduled recording function. When I select new scheduled recording and try inputting channel 8 or any other channel, it defaults to channel 3 when I hit the move right button. Is this a problem with my cable connections or my dvd set up?
Also I have read the posts, but am still confused about the IN1 & IN2 in the channel selection choices. Thanks in advance for any help.

I have just purchased the DMR-ES20 and have started recording live TV and with my Scientific Atlanta 8000 from TW without any problems. I am having a problem with the scheduled recording function. When I select new scheduled recording and try inputting channel 8 or any other channel, it defaults to channel 3 when I hit the move right button. Is this a problem with my cable connections or my dvd set up?
Also I have read the posts, but am still confused about the IN1 & IN2 in the channel selection choices. Thanks in advance for any help.

Welcome Chevygal.

If you are using a cable box, then you have to decide how you want to record the programs. If you want to use the RF output from the cable box, which is set to either channel 3 or 4, then you must use that channel on the DVD recorder. In other words, if the signal is coming out of the cable box as channel 3, then you must set the recorder to record on channel 3.

If you want to use a non-RF output from the cable box (composite or S-video), then you must use one of the other inputs on the recorder (IN1 or IN2), and you must set the recorder to record from either IN1 or IN2.

You cannot set the recorder to record from the channel that is listed on your cable box (e.g., 8). If you do, you will get no signal. So you have to set it to record from channel 3 or 4, if using the RF input, or IN1 or IN2, if using the composite or S-video input.

Does that make sense?

I think I understand what you are saying. I need to change my cables as you described using the S-video cable. I was glad to see this forum because I need some new friends!

I think I understand what you are saying. I need to change my cables as you described using the S-video cable. I was glad to see this forum because I need some new friends!

You can as rgazzara said. But can also take a two way splitter and out from the wall connect one to the cable box and the other to the RF input of the ES20. then go thru set up and scan for cable channels. This way you can record straight off the cable tuner in the recorder and also off of in1 or in2 which ever input you have the cable box connected to dirrectly.

You can as rgazzara said. But can also take a two way splitter and out from the wall connect one to the cable box and the other to the RF input of the ES20. then go thru set up and scan for cable channels. This way you can record straight off the cable tuner in the recorder and also off of in1 or in2 which ever input you have the cable box connected to dirrectly.

Yes that is possible if there are any unscrambled analog channels on the system. If they are all digital or if they are scrambled analog, then this is not possible.

An alternative to using the splitter, is to feed the RF cable to the RF in of the recorder and the RF out to the cable box. The RF out of the recorder is pass-through only and will act like a splitter.

Hi.

I just bought the ES20 today (my first DVD anything). When I went to buy some DVD-RAM media, I noticed that they said 120 minutes on them, and also that the DVD-RW and DVD-R said the same. I asked the guy at the store about this and he said that the maximum time for a DVD recording is 2 hours unless you get the dual format ones and they are only available in DVD+R/RW (and the ES20 won't record in DVD+RW). I also asked him if this 120 minute maximum could be extended if the recording mode was EP or SP or some other mode and he said the mode only referred to the quality of recording, not to the time.

have not opened the box yet, so thought I should return the unit for one that records in DVD+RW so that I could record for longer than 2 hours. I will use this unit mainly for recording TV shows over and over again.

However, from reading this blog, I saw several references to recording for 4-6 hours.

So my question is t his: Can I record for more than 2 hours on one disk with the ES20? If I am not at home, can I seet it to record a couple of two hour shows, or one show every day for a week on one disk?

Also, the box says 'You can not record continuously for more than half the stated time as the disc must be removed and turned over'. What is that about? What is the stated time? Do I really have to be there to turn a disk over? Is that the DVD-RAM disk or any disk?

Thank you. regs. Miriam

When you reduce the recording quality, the duration goes up accordingly.

XP = 1 hour
SP = 2 hours
LP = 4 hours
EP = 6 hours
and so forth.

The part about flipping the disc over is only for two-sided discs, they're rare, and obviously hold twice as much content as a (single-layer) single-sided disc.

Anyone seen the black version of this recorder in Canada? Seems everyone just has the silver one. Ugh....the shelves at Futureshop, Best Buy etc, are always full of silver dvd players and recorders. Yucko.

Hey ncaahoops -- Thank you so much for this blog!! The info was so great, it helped me decide to buy the ES20!!! :D

I made my first recording today and it looks great! :) At this point, I have one editing question ...

After recording onto a RAM disc, how do I change the order of the shows that I recorded?

Thanks again!

I was attempting to edit out the commercials on last night's episode of Law and Order for my wife, but the ES20 froze up after I had created the chapter markers. Anyone else have this problem? I unplugged it, but it happened again. My thought is that I might have a bad RAM disc.

I have had about 4 'freeze' situations since purchasing my ES 20 about 3 weeks ago. Mostly occurred when I went to finalize. Had to reboot it to unlock the freeze. I have been transferring VHS tapes to DVD - R discs. I've done about 85 films so far and have only had that 'freeze' problem while finalizing. Since everything else is functioning well, I wrote it off to bad discs. I'm using Sony MiJ - R's. I hope I don't burn the recorder out. I've been running it day and night for 3 weeks.

Hey ncaahoops -- Thank you so much for this blog!! The info was so great, it helped me decide to buy the ES20!!! :D

I made my first recording today and it looks great! :) At this point, I have one editing question ...

After recording onto a RAM disc, how do I change the order of the shows that I recorded?

Thanks again!

You are welcome :-)

With the ES20 there is no way to change the order of the recordings on the disk. Other Panasonic players (eg ES10) allow you to create Playlists, but the ES20 cannot create Playlists. (But it can play them if they are on the disk).

Hi.

So my question is t his: Can I record for more than 2 hours on one disk with the ES20? If I am not at home, can I seet it to record a couple of two hour shows, or one show every day for a week on one disk?
Yes, you can record up to 8 hours per single disc, depending on the recording mode you select. SP is 2 hours, LP is 4 hours, EP is either 6 or 8 hours. FR will theoretically fill up the disc for the duration of the recording. Obviously, yhe longer the duration, the lower the quality.



Also, the box says 'You can not record continuously for more than half the stated time as the disc must be removed and turned over'. What is that about? What is the stated time? Do I really have to be there to turn a disk over? Is that the DVD-RAM disk or any disk?

This only applies to double-sided disks, which are rare, but there are some DVD-RAM double-sided disks.

I have had about 4 'freeze' situations since purchasing my ES 20 about 3 weeks ago. Mostly occurred when I went to finalize. Had to reboot it to unlock the freeze. I have been transferring VHS tapes to DVD - R discs. I've done about 85 films so far and have only had that 'freeze' problem while finalizing. Since everything else is functioning well, I wrote it off to bad discs. I'm using Sony MiJ - R's. I hope I don't burn the recorder out. I've been running it day and night for 3 weeks.

I had about 4-5 freezes during operation I think, not sure if it was the Es20 or the media (or both) to blame. Half of the time it came out by pressing the Power button for 10 seconds, a couple of other times I had to unplug it (probably because I didn't know about the 10-second Power button option at the time).

I only recall one time where it refused to finalize a disc (the first Sony -R 8x MIJ I tried to finalize), but I was able to power it off, which probably means it didn't even start finalizing, because once it starts finalizing you can't power it off with the power button. The disc still plays, it just won't finalize no matter what.

I have been using it extensively as well, probalby averaging 8 hours a day. I hope it is designed for heavy duty use - after all that's one of its selling poits with DVD-RAM and TimeSlip/ChasePlay. I do not know if heat becomes an issue during the summer, but it seems to be a non-issue in the fall/winter. There was a post of another user doing a non-stop multi-hour marathon on an Es10 without any problems.

Anyone know if you can run coaxial cable TV and an OTA antenna connected at the same time to the ES20? If not, any thoughts on how to accomplish this?

You can as rgazzara said. But can also take a two way splitter and out from the wall connect one to the cable box and the other to the RF input of the ES20. then go thru set up and scan for cable channels. This way you can record straight off the cable tuner in the recorder and also off of in1 or in2 which ever input you have the cable box connected to dirrectly.

The only problem with this setup is if you have an expanded cable subscription (channels 101 and up including ppv channels), you won't be able to record from those channel ranges. This recorder only has basic TV tuner so when you follow this setup, you can only record from channels 1 thru 99.

I have had about 4 'freeze' situations since purchasing my ES 20 about 3 weeks ago. Mostly occurred when I went to finalize. Had to reboot it to unlock the freeze. I have been transferring VHS tapes to DVD - R discs. I've done about 85 films so far and have only had that 'freeze' problem while finalizing. Since everything else is functioning well, I wrote it off to bad discs. I'm using Sony MiJ - R's. I hope I don't burn the recorder out. I've been running it day and night for 3 weeks.

Have you guys checked Panasonic's website? They have a firmware patch for the ES20 which is supposed to fix the freezing problems.

I have the firmware update sitting in a folder but I haven't attempted to install it yet for fear of screwing up the recorder completely if done incorrectly. But I thought the firmware update was in regard to some sheduling problem or time zone fubar, not any freezing problem. That's one of the reasons I haven't attempted to install it. I do very little timer recording. I tried recording Key Largo off TCM at 6 a.m in FR mode on timer and it started and stopped perfectly but the Adelphia signal was screwed up so I got a worthless disc. In February, TCM is running a month of Oscar winners so I will be running the recorder day and night, using the timer much more.

Hi to everyone, I too just bought Panasonic ES20, I love the machine, but have problem to transfer video from my Sony camcorder. I posted this yesterday.
" When I do recording , after while you can see how video on Tv screen start to be snowy and jittery and minute latter screen turn blue but sound goes little longer. Is very hard to say when this will start, but I think will start anytime after 10 minutes of recording. I try to record through DV input, switched to S Video, but problem stayed. I try different DVD R's, cables but no luck. Is a recorder bad or just same recorder have problem with signal from camcorders ? I thought first that maybe camera is on fault, but I don't have any problem to record video from this camera to computer"
Any idea ? Could be compatibility problem Panasonic - Sony ?
me

The only problem with this setup is if you have an expanded cable subscription (channels 101 and up including ppv channels), you won't be able to record from those channel ranges. This recorder only has basic TV tuner so when you follow this setup, you can only record from channels 1 thru 99.

That's why martin1 mentioned that the output of the cable box can be connected to IN1 or IN2. The digital channels can be recorded by using these inputs.

Hey,

Been reading this thread, didn't see this anywhere, so I'll ask.

Why does this unit have an RF out if it's deactivated per the manual? I run a coax from my living room set up to my bedroom, currently hooked up to my satellite RF out. Since I run my satellite s-video into the ES20, I figure why not hook up the RF out, but you cannot do that here.

So, why the RF out in the first place if it's dead from the factory?

Well, the RF-out is not "dead." For poor folk - like me :D - I only have the coax cable wire coming out of the wall. I hook that to the coax-in on the ES20 and then hook the recorder to my TV through the RCA cables.

Now here's where the coax out is helpful ... I have a "Video/TV" button on my TV. When's its on "Video," I see the ES20 outpt ... When its on "TV," I can watch a different cable channel when I'm recording on the ES20!! (The RF-out connection makes this work.)

Hey,

Been reading this thread, didn't see this anywhere, so I'll ask.

Why does this unit have an RF out if it's deactivated per the manual? I run a coax from my living room set up to my bedroom, currently hooked up to my satellite RF out. Since I run my satellite s-video into the ES20, I figure why not hook up the RF out, but you cannot do that here.

So, why the RF out in the first place if it's dead from the factory?


As mentioned, the RF out is not dead. But the manual sure makes it look that way. It passes thru the signal from the RF in. All the time. So I feed this to my VCR where I can record a 2nd program at the same time.

Mike

Anyone seen the black version of this recorder in Canada? Seems everyone just has the silver one. Ugh....the shelves at Futureshop, Best Buy etc, are always full of silver dvd players and recorders. Yucko.

I have never seen a black version at any local stores in the USA. However my son ordered & received one from Crutchfield in USA. So they do exist.

I too wanted black. However the silver version is not too objectionable because about half of the front panel is black.

Mike

As mentioned, the RF out is not dead. But the manual sure makes it look that way. It passes thru the signal from the RF in. All the time. So I feed this to my VCR where I can record a 2nd program at the same time.

Mike

So, what you're saying is it's for passing through whatever comes into the RF In, correct? So it will not pass out whatever DVD you're playing, correct?

So, what you're saying is it's for passing through whatever comes into the RF In, correct? So it will not pass out whatever DVD you're playing, correct?


Correct, it will not output the DVD you are playing. Hook it up up to your TV RF input and you will see this.

Mike

Hello:

Great Thread!


I bought my es-20 about a week ago and all seemed to work well---so well that I riped off the UPC code to send for my rebate!

Well---last night---I had a recording (mon-fri news) set to start at 6am and off at 7am. It turned on---I guess on time---but---when I got up at 8---it was still recording---It did not shut off!

I went in to the disc---it did record my program for an hour---and nothing else appreared on the disc---but it did not shut off! Has not happened since.

I notice there is a firmware update that amoung other things---corrects "weekly recording/region code bug"---whatever that means. I downloaded the patch but have not applied it yet (actually---I am afraid to, since if I screw it up---or the patch screws it up---I cannot return the unit----STUPID ME!!!).

Have you had or heard of this problem?

Just one screwup is unacceptable in an age where DVD recorders are sort of "pushed" on us to keep up with technology.

Funny---my "ld technologyy"10 year old VCR still works flawlessly!

I don't understand. How could it still be recording but not have anything on the disc for the second hour? Was there a channel programmed into the shedule? I have found certain quirks with the ES 20( freezing ,wouldn't power off once) but have not as yet run across your problem. I don't like to mess with the box or packaging for the 30 days a piece of equipment is returnable so I never cut off UPC codes until then. I was going to return my ES 20 for a fresh one because of the few quirks I encountered but then I saw it had jumped back to 199 from 169 at BB so I feared they would charge me the difference when I got a store credit. So I've kept it and most problems have ironed themselves out. Just couldn't finalize two or three discs out of close to 100 burned. But I wrote that off to the media.

hey, Dix:

thx for the reply. Have not had a problem since that one episode---so---I figure maybe I did something I should not have!

Anyway---

let me ask you----when you insert a new unformatted -rw--------do you get a messgae to format or do you get an "err" on the front and then have to go into disc management and formay manually?

also: do you know if settings are saved after a power failure?

thx, my friend

As mentioned in the very first posting, there was a problem with CM Skip when using non- DVD-RAM discs. I have only used RAM, until today. I made a DVD-R and the CM Skip does not work.

Has anyone had luck with CM Skip on DVD-R discs? Or any other non- RAM media?

Mike

When does the resolution decrease from 720 x 480?
When does the bit rate change?

I thought I read that 4 hr LP was still 720 x 480, but at a reduced bit rate. However I cannot find that information at the moment.

Is there a chart that shows resolution and bit rates for the various recording modes?

At what point does the "FR" time take a nose dive in quality?

Mike

Well I answered part of my question. I went to Panasonic USA web site, then FAQS, then searched & ended up with this link.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/es20_es10/high_picture_quality.html

LP is 500 lines resolution, just like SP and XP. But I'm still curious where bit rates take a big decrease.

Mike

They don't really take a big decrease in a "nonlinear" sense. Not counting the bitrate that you need for the audio portion of the material, the video bitrates correspond to the reciprocal of the duration, i.e., twice the duration (4 hours instead of 2 hours) equates to half the bitrate. Again I will point out that this is not entirely true because the audio portion of the material takes up pretty much the same bitrate regardless of duration. But my point is that if you were to look at bitrates as a function of duration, they would be a smooth curve, starting high at the 1-hour mark (9200Kb/s) and curving at first sharply downward, and then gradually more flat as you moved towards longer durations. Never does that curve have a jump of the kind you are asking about. If anything, the most signicant downward movement of bitrates happens between the 1-hour and 2-hour settings.

What does happen though, is that there is a point along that curve at which there just aren't enough bits per frame (using MPEG2 compression techniques) to "adequately" render the images. That's when the resulting Picture Quality appears to fall of more rapidly. What's "adequate" will depend both on the amount of detail and motion in the specific content involved, and somewhat on the viewer, on their tolerance for compression artifacts. And of course a larger screen will make those artifacts more obvious. Just a wild guess on my part would put it around 3000Kb/s, near the 3-hour setting. But some material may cross that line at closer to the 2-hour setting, some closer to the 4-hour setting, depending on the tolerance of the viewer and of course the quality of the MPEG encoder itself.

Hi.

I have a cable box on my TV. Because the ES20 does not come with an IR blaster which would change the channel for me in timed recording, I would be stuck with recording only on one channel if I were not home to change the channel on the cable box manually. I went to Circuit City to exchange my ES20S for a DVD recorder that has an IR blaster, but they didn’t have anything, so…..

I currently have a VCR with a cable controller, which changes the cable box for me so that I can record multiple programs on multiple stations. The cable comes in to the Box, then connects to the VCR Antenna, and the RF out on the VCR connects to the Antenna on the TV. The TV power connects to the Box. This is my current setup and it works fine. Because it records whatever channel is on the cable box, I can record premium channels as well, altho I have to set the box manually for this.

The guys at CC said I could have both the VCR and DVD hooked up at the same time by leaving the current hookup with the VCR exactly as it is, and adding the DVD hookup to it.
This way I could use the VCR when I wanted to, use the DVD when I wanted to, and also (this is odd, I realize) use the VCR to change the channel on my cable box by scheduling a ‘one-minute’ program on the VCR, then set the timer recording on the DVD to record the program or movie, and repeat if I wanted another program.

One guy said I should connect the Component cables from the DVD to the VCR and this would enable the DVD player to record whatever the cable box was on because the VCR does this now. But a second guy said I would have to connect the Component cables from the DVD to the TV. It sounds like the first guy is correct, because the VCR controls everything now, but I’m not sure if either one is right.

Can I just add the DVD connection and keep the ability to record either on the VCR or DVD player, whichever I choose. Would the DVD record whatever channel is on the Cable Box? I am not interested in the ability to copy any VHS tapes to the DVD, which is the only connections between the two I’ve read about

And finally, would it then be possible to record on both the VCR and DVD at the same time (same program)? It seems that I would because they’re separate units. I would probably never do this, but I just wondered.

Thanks all. Miriam

I have 1995 model Sony Camcorder which is analog - I mean it is not Digital Video Camcorder. I have tried to connect it with ES20 infront -yellow,white and red cable and another end to Cam. The ES 20 is not recording from my Cam. How do I do it. Does it mean ES 20 is only for DV Camcorder?

Please help me by giving me the details on how to record video from my Camcorder.

kpb

If you can play your camcorder tapes to show on your TV through the yellow/white/red connections, then you can record that same signal by plugging it into the DVD Recorder instead. You might want to try confirming that you have a good signal coming out of those connections by playing it to your TV first. Then just make sure you select the appropriate input on your DVD Recorder once you connect to it instead of the TV.

Many thanks for your quick response. I will try confirming that good signals are coming out of those connections by playing it to my TV first. It is nearly over a year last I had played my camcorder on my TV.

For your informaion - I had tried recording on dvd+r but it was not doing it.

Before you even try to start a recording you have to be able to see the picture coming through the DVD Recorder to your TV. That's what will get recorded when you hit the Record button. If you just see a blank screen and hit Record, you'll be recording that blank video. You probably already knew that but every once in a while I'm surprised by someone who didn't realize that.

I have 1995 model Sony Camcorder which is analog - I mean it is not Digital Video Camcorder. I have tried to connect it with ES20 infront -yellow,white and red cable and another end to Cam. The ES 20 is not recording from my Cam. How do I do it. Does it mean ES 20 is only for DV Camcorder?

Please help me by giving me the details on how to record video from my Camcorder.

kpb

I haven't tried any camcorder with the ES20 yet. The front inputs would be "IN2" on the ES20. As the other posters said, make sure you get a picture from the camcorder first, whether it's on a TV, VCR, PC card, etc.

As mentioned in the very first posting, there was a problem with CM Skip when using non- DVD-RAM discs. I have only used RAM, until today. I made a DVD-R and the CM Skip does not work.

Has anyone had luck with CM Skip on DVD-R discs? Or any other non- RAM media?

Mike

On my ES20, CM Skip works on DVD-RAM and unfinalized media (-R, +R, -RW). Once a disc is finalized (or commercial DVD), CM Skip (and TimeSlip) don't work. I forgot if CM Skip is affected by the [brand-new-DVD no Time-Slip] bug: When recording on a brand new DVD, Time Slip and some other features are not available. Opening/closing the tray or turning the machine OFF/ON fixes it. This is not an issue when waking up from a Timer or OTR-with-duration recording since the machine has been turned OFF/ON, but it manifests when doing a non-timed/non-timer recording.

To make it more inconsistent, the Panasonci dvd player I just got (DVD S29) does not allow CM-Skip on finalized +R, but works on finalized -R/-RW/-RAM. It is also 58 seconds like the ES20, so i guess they have some consistency ;)

hey, Dix:

thx for the reply. Have not had a problem since that one episode---so---I figure maybe I did something I should not have!

One possible pitfall (it happened to me a couple of times) I forgot to press PAUSE in the Scheduler to change from AM to PM, but in those cases it did show a "!" in the right column.


let me ask you----when you insert a new unformatted -rw--------do you get a messgae to format or do you get an "err" on the front and then have to go into disc management and formay manually?

For every new unformatted -RW I tried so far (Sony 2x, TDK 2x, Office Depot 4x), I get a message to format it as soon as I insert it, and the front panel displays "ERR".


also: do you know if settings are saved after a power failure?
I think they are, but I am not 100% sure. I dont have any long term Schedule/Timer programs, so I don't know if those are saved.

Hi.

I have a cable box on my TV. Because the ES20 does not come with an IR blaster which would change the channel for me in timed recording, I would be stuck with recording only on one channel if I were not home to change the channel on the cable box manually. I went to Circuit City to exchange my ES20S for a DVD recorder that has an IR blaster, but they didn’t have anything, so…..

I currently have a VCR with a cable controller, which changes the cable box for me so that I can record multiple programs on multiple stations. The cable comes in to the Box, then connects to the VCR Antenna, and the RF out on the VCR connects to the Antenna on the TV. The TV power connects to the Box. This is my current setup and it works fine. Because it records whatever channel is on the cable box, I can record premium channels as well, altho I have to set the box manually for this.

The guys at CC said I could have both the VCR and DVD hooked up at the same time by leaving the current hookup with the VCR exactly as it is, and adding the DVD hookup to it.
This way I could use the VCR when I wanted to, use the DVD when I wanted to, and also (this is odd, I realize) use the VCR to change the channel on my cable box by scheduling a ‘one-minute’ program on the VCR, then set the timer recording on the DVD to record the program or movie, and repeat if I wanted another program.

One guy said I should connect the Component cables from the DVD to the VCR and this would enable the DVD player to record whatever the cable box was on because the VCR does this now. But a second guy said I would have to connect the Component cables from the DVD to the TV. It sounds like the first guy is correct, because the VCR controls everything now, but I’m not sure if either one is right.

Can I just add the DVD connection and keep the ability to record either on the VCR or DVD player, whichever I choose. Would the DVD record whatever channel is on the Cable Box? I am not interested in the ability to copy any VHS tapes to the DVD, which is the only connections between the two I’ve read about

And finally, would it then be possible to record on both the VCR and DVD at the same time (same program)? It seems that I would because they’re separate units. I would probably never do this, but I just wondered.

Thanks all. Miriam
Hi Miriam,

If your cable company offers it, you might want to consider renting an external DVR, which is a cable box with a hard drive that records up to 100 hours of standard definition programming, allows one to record two different stations at the same time or record one station while watching another (scrambled or unscrambled!). All one does is to go to TV Guide, click the program you want recorded and confirm. No need to use the timer function on your ES 20 at all. If the program is something you want to keep it can be dubbed onto DVD at one's convenience while still watching another program live.

For us, this extra service costs an additional $9.95 a month but it is worth it. My wife is watching a program while I'm dubbing a movie that was recorded a few days ago overnight.

So, what you're saying is it's for passing through whatever comes into the RF In, correct? So it will not pass out whatever DVD you're playing, correct?

Yes, it just passes through whatever comes into the RF In. Convinient if you don't want to use a splitter, or if you don't want to create an additional split.

It would have been nice if it had more outputs though :-)

I purchased my (second) Panasonic ES20 yesterday (the first one didn't have a remote control). I hooked up the second one and have had no issues recording on Imation 8X DVD+R discs. I noticed at Best Buy that most, if not all, of the available media are now 16x. I bought a pack of Fujifilm 16x DVD-R discs to use next. I noticed the recorder box says it burns up to 8x. There's also an upgrade on the Panasonic website that says it "improves compatibility with the most recent 8X and 16X DVD media". My questions -

(1) Without the upgrade, will the 16x DVD-R discs work?

(2) With the upgrade, will the 16x DVD-R discs work?

(3) Should I load the upgrade from the Panasonic website?

Thank you.

I've had no problems so far.

Purchased a 25 spindle of TDK-R 16x and made four dubbings from my DVR without any problem. Saw the firmware upgrade on the Panny website but did not download on the premise it might damage the machine if not done properly.

This is my set up as per Panasonic DVD Recorder Connection Guides:
From wall to>Cable Box>Recorder>VCR and to TV
(1)I have no problem recording VHS tapes to Recorder on dvd+r (TDK)
(2)I can play DVD from Recorder on TV
(3)I can watch TV on its on
(4)I can play and watch camcorder movie direct to TV. (by-passing Recorder)This test is ok. No problem.
(5)I am now trying to record from Camcorder to Recorder. I have connection from camcorder to Recorder in front IN2 by using Red,Yellow and White cable. I am getting blank screen and spoiled one dvd+r as I got blank video. I am trying to test camcorder to get picture coming through Recorder on TV but not getting it. I have connected cam to Recorder IN2 front and from Cam to TV in and keeping Video 1 on my Hitachi TV but no picture(I have also tried Video 2 on my TV). How do I get this test done. What do I do to get picture from cam through Recorder on TV?

Many thanks
kpb

I have connected cam to Recorder IN2 front and from Cam to TV in and keeping Video 1 on my Hitachi TV but no picture(I have also tried Video 2 on my TV). How do I get this test done. What do I do to get picture from cam through Recorder on TV?
I'm confused by that part.

It's simple actually, assuming you are getting video out of the camcorder on yellow/white/red, which you would test by plugging them directly into your TV,
there are two parts:

1) Make sure you can see the DVD Recorder output on the TV. For example, hitting some menu buttons the remote should cause something to come up on the TV.

2) Plug the camcorder output into the DVD Recorder input, say IN2. Select that input on the DVD Recorder. Now you should be able to see on the TV, whatever video is coming in on the IN2 input of the DVD Recorder. If you get nothing, yet you know something is coming out of the camcorder, try something else that you know generates good video, like a Playstation2. (This is what video test signal generators are good for (those color bars), checking questionable signal paths such as you seem to be having.)

A DVD Recorder is no different than a VCR in this function (reiterating now):

The output of the camcorder goes to an input of the DVD Recorder, select this input on the DVD Recorder, then set the TV to see what's coming out of the DVD Recorder. It should be the camcorder output. Unless your DVD Recorder is broken, doing these three things will work.

Once you can see the camcorder output coming through the DVD Recorder, cue the tape on the camcorder to the beginning of the portion you'd like to record, then start the DVD Recorder (recording) and start the camcorder (playing). At the conclusion of the portion of the camcorder tape you want to record, stop the DVD Recorder (recording) and stop the camcorder (playing). I'm sure you know that part.

hey, Dix:



Anyway---

let me ask you----when you insert a new unformatted -rw--------do you get a messgae to format or do you get an "err" on the front and then have to go into disc management and formay manually?

also: do you know if settings are saved after a power failure?

thx, my friend

I have not used any - RW media. I have only used - R so far but I did get an err message when I attempted a Maxell +R when I first bought it. I returned the package of blank DVD's and went to find MiJ - R discs. I have only unplugged momentarily to unlock the freeze so I don't know if it will retain settings for longer spans without power.. My Sony VCR will remember settings for about 20 minutes without power, then loses everything. I am up to 105 films transferred with only 2 problems finalizing two films so far. The recorder has been running every day for 3 weeks so far so I am really giving it a workout and it's holding up well.

bobkart:

Many thanks for your guidance. I have done it now. I plug (as explained by you) the camcorder output to DVD Recorder input IN2 and selected the same input IN2 on the TV. I can see the picture now. You are right. A DVD Recorder is no different than a VCR in this function. I did not have the time to record on dvd media at the moment but will do it tomorrow. I am sure it will work.

Now I have to learn how to record the live TV programs on the DVD Recorder. Is it the same procedure?

Many thanks
kpb

Recording from cable channels is just a matter of tuning to the channel instead of IN2.

Are the 4X TY Shiny Silver - R's in tape wrap ($0.24/disc) that are selling at supermediastore OK for the ES 20 or should I order the 8X? I can't remember which TY disc people posted they were having problems with. The inkjet printables? The thermal lacquers? TIA

I can't address the ES20 but they are working fine in my Pioneer 633H, Panasonic E85H, and PC burner (NEC ND-3540A). And they seem to work at 16x.

On my ES20, CM Skip works on DVD-RAM and unfinalized media (-R, +R, -RW). Once a disc is finalized (or commercial DVD), CM Skip (and TimeSlip) don't work. I forgot if CM Skip is affected by the [brand-new-DVD no Time-Slip] bug: When recording on a brand new DVD, Time Slip and some other features are not available. Opening/closing the tray or turning the machine OFF/ON fixes it. This is not an issue when waking up from a Timer or OTR-with-duration recording since the machine has been turned OFF/ON, but it manifests when doing a non-timed/non-timer recording.

To make it more inconsistent, the Panasonci dvd player I just got (DVD S29) does not allow CM-Skip on finalized +R, but works on finalized -R/-RW/-RAM. It is also 58 seconds like the ES20, so i guess they have some consistency ;)


I burned another DVD-R last night & did not finalize it. CM Skip works. I have not tried it on a commercial DVD yet.

It's strange that your DVD S29 allows CM Skip with DVD-R, yet the ES20 does not.

Mike

Are the 4X TY Shiny Silver - R's in tape wrap ($0.24/disc) that are selling at supermediastore OK for the ES 20 or should I order the 8X? I can't remember which TY disc people posted they were having problems with. The inkjet printables? The thermal lacquers? TIA


I just received the 4X TY discs from supermedia store & so far they work. But I've only burned 2 discs, and one is in the ES20 right now being recorded.

Mike

I did a timer record last night for a 2.5 hr program. I looked at the disc & it was less than half used. The status display for playback indicates 2:29 & a few seconds used and "FR". And I have 1:25 time left in SP and 2:50 time left in LP. Thus supporting not a lot of disc used. And the picture is poor. It obviously recorded at some super slow speed. But again does indicate "FR" was used. I thought I set for 2hrs and 31mins, allowing an extra minute. But I'm not so sure since it did not quite make it to 2hrs and 30mins. So it makes me wonder if the extra "odd" minute threw things off.

Either way, it certainly did not fill the disc. Any clue what I might have done wrong? The 2.5 hr FR recording I did the night before came out correctly. I currently am recording another 2.5 hr program this evening & will know later how it comes out.

Mike

The above method works for the ES20. It is the Display button on the remote control, not a button on the front panel. It's all remote control based. However, it doesn't seem to change with new firmware, and users of other Panasonic models show the same number as well. It may not get updated with new firmware or Panasonic just doesn't change it. Maybe another Panasonic bug?


I was puzzled that everyone seems to have the same firmware version. I searched & found postings about several types of firmware. What came up appeared to be for HDD models, but there is mention of:
Main Firmware Version
Timer Firmware Version
DVD Drive Firmware Version

These were obtained by pushing buttons on the front panel & going into a service mode. But these buttons are not on the ES20. It makes me wonder if all 3 of these firmware versions also apply to the ES20. If so, how do we access them? And which one(s) are affected by the upgrade software from the Panasonic web site?

Mike

Recording from cable channels is just a matter of tuning to the channel instead of IN2.

Talk to you later

Should I buy the DMR-ES20 now or wait a few months for the new 2006 line to come out. The new DMR-ES15 appears to have everything the ES20 has and adds an HDMI connection and more DVD format support.

The 2.5 hr FR DVD-R that I recorded last night came out properly, even thou still short by a few seconds.

I still do not know what happened to the previous 2.5 hr FR recording where it did not fill up the disc and gave me 1.25 hrs SP left over.

Mike

Should I buy the DMR-ES20 now or wait a few months for the new 2006 line to come out. The new DMR-ES15 appears to have everything the ES20 has and adds an HDMI connection and more DVD format support.

Nascar,

While recording via HDMI would definately improve picre quality I wonder if copyright protection, which blocks recording to digital devices connected by HDMI, would then be kicked in by certain stations (HBO etc.).

Joe

I did a timer record last night for a 2.5 hr program. I looked at the disc & it was less than half used. The status display for playback indicates 2:29 & a few seconds used and "FR". And I have 1:25 time left in SP and 2:50 time left in LP. Thus supporting not a lot of disc used. And the picture is poor. It obviously recorded at some super slow speed. But again does indicate "FR" was used. I thought I set for 2hrs and 31mins, allowing an extra minute. But I'm not so sure since it did not quite make it to 2hrs and 30mins. So it makes me wonder if the extra "odd" minute threw things off.

Either way, it certainly did not fill the disc. Any clue what I might have done wrong? The 2.5 hr FR recording I did the night before came out correctly. I currently am recording another 2.5 hr program this evening & will know later how it comes out.

Mike

I have had similar FR mode issues as you described above. I do not trust the Timer FR mode to fill up the disc.

There is a hypothesis though, but I have not tested it yet. A user (I think on Amazon) mentioned that the mode the machine is on, before the Timer recording starts, affects the way FR mode behaves. So for example, if you have a blank disc with a 4hr 25min Timer FR mode and leave them machine at XP/SP/LP it will fill up the disc, but if you leave it at EP it will not fill up the disc. This is purely a hypothesis, but it could explain the inconsistency if it was so.

I am planning to test this in the next few days (with DVD-RAM or DVD-RW so i dont waste any +/-R space).

Should I buy the DMR-ES20 now or wait a few months for the new 2006 line to come out. The new DMR-ES15 appears to have everything the ES20 has and adds an HDMI connection and more DVD format support.

It depends on whether you want to use one right away or not. In theory, you can get more for less later on, but there are exceptions to the rule.

I haven't seen the specs for ES15. If they added DVD-RW(VR) that would be a nice addition. HDMI is nice for those who need/use it :)

I have had similar FR mode issues as you described above. I do not trust the Timer FR mode to fill up the disc.

There is a hypothesis though, but I have not tested it yet. A user (I think on Amazon) mentioned that the mode the machine is on, before the Timer recording starts, affects the way FR mode behaves. So for example, if you have a blank disc with a 4hr 25min Timer FR mode and leave them machine at XP/SP/LP it will fill up the disc, but if you leave it at EP it will not fill up the disc. This is purely a hypothesis, but it could explain the inconsistency if it was so.

I am planning to test this in the next few days (with DVD-RAM or DVD-RW so i dont waste any +/-R space).

I'm not sure what previous mode my machine was on. I typically have been using LP & therefore should have been in that mode. But when I viewed the Status of the problem disc it displayed time left as 1:25 SP. Which kind of makes me think the unit was in SP prior to the recording. But again, this is a maybe.

I too will experiment with some DVD-RAM recordings to see what happens.

I also wonder if the firmware upgrade, which I have not done, fixes this bug.

Mike

I tried to do a weekly program schedule last night for 3 sequential programs. The first two worked fine but the last one didn't record. I checked my program schedule list and it was entered properly, but it simply didn't record. This is the second night in a row this has happened. Is this the issue everyone has been talking about that is fixed with the Panisonic download fix?

Hi fellows,

First post here. After doing a lot of reading on this forum, I decide on buying a Panasonic ES20 tomorrow at CC. Can anyone tell me what DVD-RAM disks are good for a good price, I'm a bit confused with all this reading I have done reseaching this DVD recorder.

Also, is a s-video hook-up nearly as good as component video?

This is my first DVD recorder as you can tell, and I have a lot of practicing and learning ahead of me.

Hi fellows,

First post here. After doing a lot of reading on this forum, I decide on buying a Panasonic ES20 tomorrow at CC. Can anyone tell me what DVD-RAM disks are good for a good price, I'm a bit confused with all this reading I have done reseaching this DVD recorder.

Also, is a s-video hook-up nearly as good as component video?

This is my first DVD recorder as you can tell, and I have a lot of practicing and learning ahead of me.

A 5 pack of DVD RAMS will run you around 10-15$. Panasonic makes the brand I'm using and I have no complaints. The ES20 comes with a DVD RAM disc also. S-video isn't as good as component, but most people can't really tell the difference. Only those with a truly trained eye will. Keep in mind that the video will only be as good as the source.

A 5 pack of DVD RAMS will run you around 10-15$. Panasonic makes the brand I'm using and I have no complaints. The ES20 comes with a DVD RAM disc also. S-video isn't as good as component, but most people can't really tell the difference. Only those with a truly trained eye will. Keep in mind that the video will only be as good as the source.

Hey thanks MR12 I will probably pick them up at CC when I get my recorder. I will remember that my source is the most important part to getting a good transfer.

Thanks again!

I tried to do a weekly program schedule last night for 3 sequential programs. The first two worked fine but the last one didn't record. I checked my program schedule list and it was entered properly, but it simply didn't record. This is the second night in a row this has happened. Is this the issue everyone has been talking about that is fixed with the Panisonic download fix?

I am not doing repeat recordings (weekly or dialy) with the ES20 yet, because I am using the cable company DVR for that. I only use the Timer to offload programs from the DVR, so it's single one-time-recordings.

One possibility may be partially media: After going through the DVDs I have had issues with, the majority have been Philips +R.

The Panasonic firmware update is not very specific about the bugs it fixes :-( I have not tried it yet.

Here is what the Panasonic Canada web site says about the latest update:

Model Number(s): DMRES20 dmres20.zip (4231892 Bytes, Multi-lingual)
Operating System(s):
Release Date: 2006/01/23 Version: U3-152
DMRES20 firmware update. -Corrects auto clock set problem. -improve drive performance. CD Writing software running in Windows 2000 or XP required to make the update CD.

Hi.

Maybe somebody can point me in the right direction before I get totally frustrated with this machine..

I managed to hook it up just fine ( settled for a normal hookup without my cable box) and recorded a movie last night. I used scheduled recording, flex time. Movie seemed to record ok. Watched it this morning and it froze during the final credits (after 2+ hours). I am sure it was the movie itself that froze, not the DVD player, so perhaps the disk ran out before the movie, but I don't know. It seemed that it must have stopped because it reached the end of the record time. I used a DVD-R.

After I exited from the freeze, I went to Finalize. Easy process, Function, yes, yes all the way, no chapters, no titles. After Final 'Yes", the little screens came on and within 10 seconds, it said ' Finalize failed'. Tried several times, same thing.

Now if I try to play it, it says 'Incompatible Disc' Won't play, won't finalize, won't anything. The Function screen does not give me the Disk Management option.

I followed the instructions carefully. It record ok because I actually watched the movie once. Anyone know what seems to be the problem? Thank you very much.

Hi.

Maybe somebody can point me in the right direction before I get totally frustrated with this machine..

I managed to hook it up just fine ( settled for a normal hookup without my cable box) and recorded a movie last night. I used scheduled recording, flex time. Movie seemed to record ok. Watched it this morning and it froze during the final credits (after 2+ hours). I am sure it was the movie itself that froze, not the DVD player, so perhaps the disk ran out before the movie, but I don't know. It seemed that it must have stopped because it reached the end of the record time. I used a DVD-R.

After I exited from the freeze, I went to Finalize. Easy process, Function, yes, yes all the way, no chapters, no titles. After Final 'Yes", the little screens came on and within 10 seconds, it said ' Finalize failed'. Tried several times, same thing.

Now if I try to play it, it says 'Incompatible Disc' Won't play, won't finalize, won't anything. The Function screen does not give me the Disk Management option.

I followed the instructions carefully. It record ok because I actually watched the movie once. Anyone know what seems to be the problem? Thank you very much.

I am just guessing, but maybe the flexible recording mis-estimated the space required and there is no room left on the disc to finalize?
Or else it could just be a bad DVD-R. If it happens more often, or without FR, then I'd be concerned.

I've read through this thread- whew a lot to digest. I'm sure this is addressed here but please help me out. I finally have things hooked up correctly (I think), so here's my questions. I did a test on a scheduled recording, set the schedule, turned the recorder off (per instructions) and left the TV on. When recording started I guess it went to In 1 and that was what I saw on the Tv (which was what I wanted recorded) but, is there anyway to change what is showing on the TV so that I'm able to watch something different than what is beign recorded? Also, prior to recording everything was crystal clear, when it started recording the channel was fuzzy. I think the actual recording was pretty clear. Why would that be?

Oh, I must have somethign with audio not hooked up right because my TV sound is great, but sound through the recorder/player is very quiet- I have to turn it way up to hear it. Any ideas?

This thread has helped me out so much!!!

Thanks in advance for ANY help!

is there anyway to change what is showing on the TV so that I'm able to watch something different than what is beign recorded?
No, not through the recorder. It will only output what it's recording, or possibly sometihing it has alreay recorded, if the recorder provides that functionality. But to watch one thing from the cable while recording another would require a second tuner.

I've read through this thread- whew a lot to digest. I'm sure this is addressed here but please help me out. I finally have things hooked up correctly (I think), so here's my questions. I did a test on a scheduled recording, set the schedule, turned the recorder off (per instructions) and left the TV on. When recording started I guess it went to In 1 and that was what I saw on the Tv (which was what I wanted recorded) but, is there anyway to change what is showing on the TV so that I'm able to watch something different than what is beign recorded? Also, prior to recording everything was crystal clear, when it started recording the channel was fuzzy. I think the actual recording was pretty clear. Why would that be?

Oh, I must have somethign with audio not hooked up right because my TV sound is great, but sound through the recorder/player is very quiet- I have to turn it way up to hear it. Any ideas?

This thread has helped me out so much!!!

Thanks in advance for ANY help!


You stated you are using In 1 on the recorder. Is this input signal coming from a cable box? If so, you could use a splitter before the box and feed one output to the TV. Or if you want to record analog cable you can feed the ES20 an RF input and this will pass thru and come out the RF out which in turn can feed the TV.

I don't know why your picture & sound would be poor. Could be something wired incorrectly. Is the ES20 connected directly to the TV? Where is your sound coming from, the TV or an audio receiver?

Mike

Hey fellows,

Got my ES20 at BB. Did someone say that there was a Panasonic coupon out now on that DVR, or was it another coupon offer?

I haven't been able to tell how my DVR works yet becuase I haven't purchased a Component Video Cable. Does any have recomendations for a reasonably priced 4" cable?