Been researching this product and like what it offers now and possibilities for the future. I am currently building a house and am finishing up framing so it's getting close for me to pull the trigger on whichever way I'm going to go. I have a couple of questions on the digilinx product:

I'm currently mainly interested in whole house audio, but can the digilinx be viewed as a foundation for a control system?
Will pogramming for the future need to be done by an installer or is it plug and play enough that I'll be able to add devices? (not trying to start yet another DIY vs. Dealer debate just trying to get an understanding)
I have a Netstreams dealer, but he hasn't done a digilinx install before. He has done Netstreams musica systems and has done lots of control installs of other products. How well does Nestreams support their dealers? Is digilinx comparatively easy to install for someone that hasn't done one before? Should I be concerned? Any additional protections I should get from my dealer?


Overall, I like the concept of Netstreams' technology and their IP based system and will probably go with it, but the above info will really help as will any additional info you can provide on the digilinx product and the company in general.

Thanks

David

Been researching this product and like what it offers now and possibilities for the future. I am currently building a house and am finishing up framing so it's getting close for me to pull the trigger on whichever way I'm going to go. I have a couple of questions on the digilinx product:

I'm currently mainly interested in whole house audio, but can the digilinx be viewed as a foundation for a control system?

Baby control system with ability to control at the moment a limited set of systems and products but that list will grow. The real issue will be the inability to customize both control and screens. As long as you can live with that then it will serve as a control system


Will pogramming for the future need to be done by an installer or is it plug and play enough that I'll be able to add devices? (not trying to start yet another DIY vs. Dealer debate just trying to get an understanding)

My understanding is that software will be dealer only but that does not mean that your dealer will not provide the utility to you. It's not especially difficult for either a dealer or end user to program and that would include adding devices. Like any piece of software it has its quirks and you need to acclimate yourself to them. Ultimately, your ability to program the system will depend on your ability to obtain the software utility.


I have a Netstreams dealer, but he hasn't done a digilinx install before. He has done Netstreams musica systems and has done lots of control installs of other products. How well does Nestreams support their dealers? Is digilinx comparatively easy to install for someone that hasn't done one before? Should I be concerned? Any additional protections I should get from my dealer?


David

Obtaining Musica and digilinx are two different SKUs. Familiarity with one is no help with installing and programming the second. In the first place digilinx requires far more knowledge of networking than does musica. Secondly, there is a test you need to pass and some other road blocks. While your dealer may very well obtain the right to sell Diglinx there is no guarantee. Netstreams has very good dealer support. Characterizing the ease of installation is difficult as it would partly depend on how much knowledge that dealer had with respect to networks and large scale installations. I did not find it difficult and you and your installer may also have few problems. Luckily, if you follow the Netstreams wiring architecture you can install just about any product you wish.

Alan

Thanks Alan,

So for control I'll always be limited to their GUI and how they've decided to control additional devices? Is that accurate? I think I can live with that if they build in typical actions for a particular device.

Also on the music side, my dealer recommended the new speakerlinx 250 throughout. Any thoughts here? I have a large great room and large patio where the 50 watts might be appropriate, but i thought the SL 220s were pretty efficient and would be ok for most smaller and mid-size spaces.


David

How much power does a speaker require? I had few issues with the older SL220 as long as you did not ask it to play really loud or work in a very large room. The new SL250 swings many more amps which speakers like and is built better. I have yet to hear one so I will withhold comments until one arrives but I am partly to blame here. You will not do badly by going with the bigger amp but if you keep within its limitations the SL220 is fine but the SL250 is really a much better amp.

If I were driving a pair of Triads I'd go with the SL250s.

There have been rumors that they will offer software to modify their stock GUI but as I have seen nothing I know nothing. Until that time it is what they allow. They do allow you to write one way serial drivers but the graphics are what they permit.

Alan

Thanks again Alan really appreciate it. One other thing at least for now, have you or any of your clients used the web interface via a PDA? This actually seems pretty nice if done correctly. Portable with no boot time and quick connections to wireless networks.

One can also use Netstreams as the foundation of your distributed entertainment system and AMX or Crestron (soon) as the control system. Polk is about to start shipping the two models of IP-based in-wall speakers made expressly to work with the DigiLinx system. They will be available this month and have the amps built-in, so you do not need to install SpeakerLinx modules.

Eric

Hi David,

You're getting responses from some true veteran installers, so you're in good hands (and perhaps you're more comfortable with their objectivity then mine) :)

A few points:
First and most importantly, your chosen dealer must be trained and certified by NetStreams in order to purchase the product. DigiLinX is not terribly difficult to design systems and install, but it is different from all the analog based audio and control systems so some training is in order.
Pre-wiring for DigiLinX is relatively straightforward and the way we suggest to wire will support both expansion and other systems.

Regarding control vs. audio. Our approach is to get the fundamentals right; produce a best in class audio system and expand from there. Since the basis of the system is IP, the expansion is well "road mapped" and clearly on a path that intersects with the way houses will be wired and controlled in the future.
Today the system has native support for security cameras (Panasonic IP cameras), HVAC (Aprilaire heating and cooling information and control), lights (Lutron), and pretty much any other generic device via IR or RS-232. Of course the system already has native support for audio servers like Audio ReQuest, Escient and Imerge, plus graphical support and control of the new Polk XM tuner (which is very cool btw). We will also be providing intercom functionality via VoIP.
Clearly more and more system in the house are moving to a network control basis so this approach makes a lot of sense for future expandability and flexibility.

You can see a demo of the GUI at http://www.netstreams.com/tl380demo.html , although this is what is about to be known as "the old GUI" as the new, more control oriented GUI will be released this month. I expect a new demo will be on the website as soon as we release the new GUI.

We will provide the ability to change the GUI in the future, but I don't have a timeline for that. I think the new GUI will go a long way towards addressing installers' suggestions on interfaces.

As you've observed, a PDA can be used (provided it has a web browser that supports Macromedia Flash (think pocket PC, not Palm). But PDA's can be a little finicky with connectivity so there are a few tricks we suggest to our dealers. Of course any other Flash capable browser can also provide complete control (desktop PC, notebook PC, web tablet etc).

The new SL250 amp does have more power of course, but also more processing power so there are additional features (like 5 band digital EQ, loudness compensation). And large room or place where you want to be able to crank it up a bit probably wants a subwoofer as no matter how much power you throw at most in wall or in ceiling speakers you are not going to get much bass). So we've made it very easy to integrate subwoofers into a DigiLinX system. And yes, the forthcoming Polk IP capable speakers are as awesome as the rumor mill says!

i am seriously considering a DigiLinx solution as well. a couple of questions:
* DigiLinx currently only supports the Polk xRT12 for an XM tuner. i've read that the RS-232 capabilities of this unit are limited. what XM features are supported in DigiLinx (i.e. channel previews/look-ahead, Song-Seek, Artist-Seek, extended titles -- support for more than the standard 16 chars)?
* i believe DigiLinx can play digital music files from a network-connected PC. does it support the FLAC format?
* for a retrofit installation, what other cables are necessary to wire to the touchpanels? is single CAT5 sufficient? or do you require 2 or 1 CAT5 and speaker wire for power?

I'm definitely going digilinx now, but my installer is recommending that the wiring for rooms with touchlinx panels should have 2 homeruns of the siamese wire - one to the touchlinx and one to the speakerlinx in that room. Is that right and what would the benefit be?

Also has anyone integrated with a RadioRA chronos lighting package? Would like opinions on this as well.

Thanks

i am seriously considering a DigiLinx solution as well. a couple of questions:
* DigiLinx currently only supports the Polk xRT12 for an XM tuner. i've read that the RS-232 capabilities of this unit are limited. what XM features are supported in DigiLinx (i.e. channel previews/look-ahead, Song-Seek, Artist-Seek, extended titles -- support for more than the standard 16 chars)?


Obviously we can't support features the source does not offer, so you'll have to look to Polk to add the features you're interested in. DigiLinX does provide color station logos that are not provided by the Polk tuner, but interactive features that require polling of the source and the content provider will need support in the tuner itself.
We can easily update what DigiLinX displays as all of the code is in flashable firmware.



* i believe DigiLinx can play digital music files from a network-connected PC. does it support the FLAC format?

No and no. We do not currently support general purpose PC's as a source (we are comfortable with them for control but not as sources).
And the SpeakerLinX modules do not currently support FLAC (they do MP3 and WAV).



* for a retrofit installation, what other cables are necessary to wire to the touchpanels? is single CAT5 sufficient? or do you require 2 or 1 CAT5 and speaker wire for power?

We like to see CAT5e and "speaker wire" (we use two conductors for power). A lot of our installers are using one of our local power supplys if there is only CAT5e to the touchpanel. The simple keypads are just CAT5e (direct connect to the SpeakerLinX module they are controlling).

I'm definitely going digilinx now, but my installer is recommending that the wiring for rooms with touchlinx panels should have 2 homeruns of the siamese wire - one to the touchlinx and one to the speakerlinx in that room. Is that right and what would the benefit be?

Also has anyone integrated with a RadioRA chronos lighting package? Would like opinions on this as well.

Thanks

You can wire TouchLinX and SpeakerLinX either in series or both home run. His suggestion is probably the safest in terms of "who knows what the future will bring". :cool:

The RadioRa integration is very tight and works well.

We are currently doing control4. I did go to the digilinx training before we signed up as control4 dealers. The digilinx product is awesome. Once the control portion is there it will be tough to beat. They need to look at oeming a wireless remote though. I don't like the idea of telling the customers that a pda or web tablet is their only option. Look at the nevo. Sweet form factor, and perfectly capable hardware wise. Lite-on manufactures it for nevo. Crestron is looking at getting the same remote.

I was just at the Digilinks training and it is a nice program. I also used the program at Lifeware for media center training and you can interface with a computer.

The new gui from Netstreams looked good plus they will have a user defined gui that you can make your own. I had the impression that you can use third party gui soon also but theirs look just as nice.

Yes they will connect to the Polk Ip speakers but they are like $2,000/pair

Easy to program and if your dealer has done a Musica system he should be able to do the Digitlinks but it was nice that he is honest about it.

If he wires you correctly you can start with a Musica system and when you need to just switch out some hubs and wall controllers and upgrade to the digitlinks system. Personally I think that is a waste of money but there are options.

Video control is coming and it seems that all the improvements are coming first quarter. I kept asking does that mean after CES(January to me is first quarter) and I have a feeling it will be around spring.

But this was cool.....your dealer will be able to download a patch to give you "intercom" control at any of the touchpanel site. So where you put one you will be able to talk with someone else using voip and the sound coming over your speakers in that room.
Nice little feature. They are working on a outdoor station for intercom also but could use one of their other pad for that now but not that attractive.

If your dealer has not done one of these systems or attending training recently I would just suggest he calls over to Netstreams and get a small refresher on the new improvement coming out like the intercom functions. You might not need to run a seperate intercom since both the touch pad and the button pad could be used for this function and that would save you money.

As far as getting to program your own Netstreams.....to an installer that is like death!!! You have the program running good and then you "think" you can do it and wammo....you delelted your file!!!!

I would personally arrange for remote access for your dealer via VPN and as you use the program and decide on what tweaks that you want it is a phone call away for your dealer to bring up your house and make the tweaks(more light here, child volume lock out here). Maybe since you are his test case he will throw this in for a month or so and then charge you after that.

Hope that helps.

Larry

Thanks Larry, I'm starting with Digilinx, no musica. All wire and ready to go. Hopefully install sometime in late Jan., early Feb. I'm glad you're impressed with system. I'm prewired for 12 zones and would like the intercom funtions with the touchlinx and the keylinx 200. Hopefully they'll have that ready by my install time.

Hi Dfrey,

It is nice that this system is expandable very easily also. There is a module that your installer can get third party for when the doorbell or telephone ring that it mutes your system for like 30 seconds. This is inexpensive and a nice feature giving you enough time to grab a remote or go to the touch pad and lower the music if needed.

I think by your install time there will be the new GUI also and other features. It is nice that the company is expanding their product.

Video options should be out a little after that also so make sure you prewire for that so all he needs to do is put in a module and away you go.

Exciting time...isn't it???

Good luck and report back when you start to use your Digilinks.

Larry

From the My Music Screen on MCE can you control the whole house netstreams system. I did see the screen at EHX, but I cant remember if it was using netstreams or something else. Thanks.

Eden,

it most likely was the added "MY HOME" mce button. And the programs work very nicely together but "Lifeware" adds functions that Netstreams does not have do to third party applications and vendors.

Larry

I'm in the process of building a new house, and, of course, want the whole-house audio, the ability to tap different (cable) video sources (from the basement, so as not to clutter each room), and to have local input in some areas. I'm considering Control4, Crestron Adagio, and the Netstreams Musica system. Are all these systems mutually exclusive? (I think they are.). So does a wiring setup have to be designed around the hardware, or do you have a whole bunch of Cat5e multiple home-runs for each room and decide what control panels/keypads to use later?

Separately, I'm doing a small hotel (11 rooms) and wonder what's the best approach for audio and allowing the guests to watch DVDs and cable TV in their room, but to take advantage of in-wall speakers (with sound isolation). I think that local amplifiers in each room makes sense, and have the TV audio plug into it. Thoughts?

Well my digilinx install is set for next Friday. Hopefully the Dallas area Netstreams rep will be there during my programming. I'll report back.

For anyone that installs or uses a digilinx system, I did have one question regarding music servers. I know that Request, Imerge and Escient are all natively supported but it's hard to get a definite answer as to the features and level of integration supported by digilinx. For example, I believe I've read here that the Digilinx system will extract multiple streams from the Request unit even if it's not a multiple output unit.

Has anyone installed or use a digilinx system that can address the differences using the various music servers.

Thanks,

David

I used to be a Digilinx and Request dealer (when I owned my business) and I never considered any other combo than that. It works great and you can get 7 streams from the Request with just a a single network connection. Escient and Imerge may have that feature now, but I never had a reason to look elsewhere.

Just put a UPS on the Request and have fun.

Thanks PremierHT.

Dfrey, so how's the Netstreams install going???
I see Netstreams has listed the Panorama ( CAT5 video distribution ) to the Musica line-up. Digital Linux soon to follow. Looks pretty cool!!

Eddie

Netstreams install is done. Had to wait on the Request. My system right now consists of the Polk XM tuner, the base model Request (80 gig), and AM/FM tuner distributed to 6 zones (wired for 12 and will add over time, but after using for the past three weeks probably sooner rather than later), two of which have local source input/output.

Anyway, I can't say enough good things so far about the Digilinx system. Very, very slick and being able to listen to uncompressed music (either ripped or directly off a CD) is very nice. I get 6 unique streams off the Request with just one cat5 connection to the network, which is great for the wife and kids. I have two of the touchlinx keypads which are great, but find I use my wireless PDA or Laptop alot for control. I also 2 have the newer speakerlinx (250) which provide nice audio EQ features.

For a high audio quality distributed music system, I don't think this system can be beat at it's price point (which admittedly isn't cheap). Plus since it's all IP based future possibilities are endless - if Nestreams can get high-def video distributed the same way, it will truly be a killer system.

Dfrey,

Video will be out by Sept for Cedia is the word on the street.....

Glad that you like the system.

Larry

Does anyone know if it is possible to use a UPnP server as a source ?

thanks

Gog

Netstreams install is done. Had to wait on the Request. My system right now consists of the Polk XM tuner, the base model Request (80 gig), and AM/FM tuner distributed to 6 zones (wired for 12 and will add over time, but after using for the past three weeks probably sooner rather than later), two of which have local source input/output.

Anyway, I can't say enough good things so far about the Digilinx system. Very, very slick and being able to listen to uncompressed music (either ripped or directly off a CD) is very nice. I get 6 unique streams off the Request with just one cat5 connection to the network, which is great for the wife and kids. I have two of the touchlinx keypads which are great, but find I use my wireless PDA or Laptop alot for control. I also 2 have the newer speakerlinx (250) which provide nice audio EQ features.

For a high audio quality distributed music system, I don't think this system can be beat at it's price point (which admittedly isn't cheap). Plus since it's all IP based future possibilities are endless - if Nestreams can get high-def video distributed the same way, it will truly be a killer system.

Thanks for the reply, glad to hear it's working out for you. I work for a company that installs high end automation and trying to get them interested in Netstreams. The limiting factor is a touch panel for control. The bosses are not very likely to go with tablets/PDA's for a control interface. To much can/will go wrong. Any ideas to overcome this limitation???

Eddie

Eddie -

Well, they have the touchlinx which is a small 3.8" touchscreen, very nicely laid out, but the GUI isn't changeable. I do think integration with AMX touchpanels is possible now and Crestron soon.

I'm obviously biased, but the IP foundation of this system is just cool. No huge multi-zone amp, no audio matrix switcher (obviously there is a network switch), no long runs of analog cables everywhere, and the audio quality is great. And in addition to video distribution, I believe they will have an interface to extract streams from a PC later this year.

David

And in addition to video distribution, I believe they will have an interface to extract streams from a PC later this year.

They've had that since before the product shipped a few years ago. Their sales managers use it to demo a 'music server' without having to actually lug a music server around. I spent 6 months begging and pleading for that tiny piece of software code to everyone in the company who would listen (lots of friends there) to no avail. They claim its a copywrite issue and they don't want to put themselves in the position to be sued by the MPAA or RIAA or any other AA group. Perhaps in the past 4 months since I last persued it they have changed their minds, but I would be surprised.

Whom did you hear this from?

dfrey, would u mind giving more details regarding the XM interface with the Polk? how many characters displayed at once? scrolling? can u do channel preview, channel presets, song-seek and the like? thanks very much.

memnoch2 - not sure if you're asking about the digilinx interface with the Polk, or how the Polk XM receiver displays XM data.

With this system I never look at the Polk nor really use any of the features directly on the Polk receiver. It's controlled via the touchlinx touchpanels or via a browser on my laptop and PDA.

The digilinx software (displayed on the touchlinx) shows I think about 15 characters each for song and artist. They don't scroll. No channel preview or song seek that I can tell, but you can set presets.

David

Does anyone know if it is possible to use a UPnP server as a source ?

thanks

Gog
Nope.

Only works with a piece of software that they provide to Imerge, Escients, Audio Request. Can't currently just hook up to your computer or anyhting like that.

Nope.

Only works with a piece of software that they provide to Imerge, Escients, Audio Request. Can't currently just hook up to your computer or anyhting like that.

Too bad, that's a show stopper for me as all my media is already on a server and I have media players in a few rooms to spread video and audio around the house's TVs

Gog

memnoch2 - not sure if you're asking about the digilinx interface with the Polk, or how the Polk XM receiver displays XM data.
The digilinx software (displayed on the touchlinx) shows I think about 15 characters each for song and artist. They don't scroll. No channel preview or song seek that I can tell, but you can set presets.
i was interested in the touchlinkx interface, thank you. this confirms the limited controllability of the Polk tuner... can it at least display both title & artist at the same time? thanks again.

It shows song, artist, channel, category and station logo.

Only works with a piece of software that they provide to Imerge, Escients, Audio Request. Can't currently just hook up to your computer or anyhting like that.

I've been considering (irregularly) what I will do for audio distribution. I reall, really, really love the idea of an IP based system. BUT... this rules Netstreams Digilinx out for me.

DG

I just got back from EHX in Orlando. I spoke with several Netstreams reps including the founder and it was confirmed they are working on a product that will harvest music collections from pc's. I was told it should be available around the summertime. They were also demonstrating an Ipod Iport dock which was displaying metadata on a digilinx keypad.

Is it possible to connect 1 pair of in-ceiling speakers and a stereo speaker to the same Speakerlinx?

Is this even recommended?


Example, a pair of 8" in-ceiling in the master bedroom and 1 6" stereo in the ensuite.
The idea is to have them play the same source as they are so close and eliminate the requirement of having an extra Speakerlinx.

Sure, you can put 2 pairs of speakers on one SpeakerLinX. You'll want to get with your dealer on the wiring so you don't present too large a load to the SpeakerLinX (we go down to 4 Ohm). Alternatively, we just came out with a feature called Playmates, which virtually links 2 (or more) SpeakerLinX together in one zone, to service large rooms.

I am thinking of using this system, but am apprehensive due to it being a "closed system", not allowing me to perform tweaks on my own, w/out having to call in a technician. I'd like to be able to "add on" components and integrate with a flash based remote (or web-browser). I was excited to read about this streaming music box, but shocked at the price ($3k or so) for a stripped down PC with a fancy server running on it. Being able to mine for music on my network is a much better solution that having it all stored in a streaming box's hard-drive, which is what most competitors provide. However, the box does not support internet streaming! Argh!!

I am thinking of using this system, but am apprehensive due to it being a "closed system", not allowing me to perform tweaks on my own, w/out having to call in a technician. I'd like to be able to "add on" components and integrate with a flash based remote (or web-browser). I was excited to read about this streaming music box, but shocked at the price ($3k or so) for a stripped down PC with a fancy server running on it. Being able to mine for music on my network is a much better solution that having it all stored in a streaming box's hard-drive, which is what most competitors provide. However, the box does not support internet streaming! Argh!!

The DigiLinX system is not aimed at the DIY market. We sell to trained dealers who wrap installation services around our products to guarantee the consistency of every install.

That said, you can use any flash-based device that has a network connection to control DigiLinX - and you don't need an installer to do that, you just need to know the IP address of your SpeakerLinX.

Hi Paul,
I am having trouble with medialinx. IR is not working. Try calling TECH support .They told me to update firmware. I did. Still it is not working. Do you think it is defective?
Tried to use Technic CD Changer or Panasonic DVD changer.

Sorry you are having problems. Pleae follow up with tech support. They will either resolve it for you or facilitate and exchange.

I have called Netstreams, left a message with the regional head of New York, called local stereo stores and I cannot find a SOUL to help me. I am remodeling my apartment in the city and before all the walls go up, I want to A, make sure I have all the right cables and b) get three touchlinx panels and a pair of speakers in the kitchen. I have a source for the Touchlinx panels, I just need some wiring/power guidance. I have no problem paying someone to come and get it all going, I just want to get it done before the walls go up. My ultimate goal is to get a Naimnet.com distributed audio system, but all their dealers are only now, getting up to speed, as the product won't hit US shores until summer.

The system I want to install for now.

3x TouchLinX TL380 (Control panel in entry, kitchen, master bedroom)
1 xSpeakerLinX SL220 (for kitchen speakers) (polk)
1x MediaLinX MLA101 ( For sat Radio)
2x ControLinX CL100 (To integrate alarm and HVAC I think, not really important)
1x SwitchLinX SW324 (Control switch)

Do you sell the appropriate power modules for the touchlink and other items?
Also, what security systems integrate into Netstream systems?

Thank You

Any help would me appreciated.

Thank You