Jack, I sometimes have little patience. I do thank Mike, CLK and others for posting the great info on this thread.

I just spent a little more time watching the AE900 using CKL's settings with a 81A + 81B filter using Dynamic Mode. With a matte white screen the CR and blacks looked very good and the lumen output seems very good. I was watching the extended version of "Lord of the Rings Return of the King." This is a very good quality DVD and it is possible to see great detail. In the dark scenes the blacks and CR was excellent and having viewed this film before with a AE700 I could see a great improvement. Hoping others who have equipment will continue to do testing with these filters and other settings.

I should have the A & B filters by this weekend, so I can play around with them then. I'm still trying to see if I can improve the performance with the EF filter though.

Mike, I am one who would very much appreciate hearing if you can "improve the performance with the EF filter." I bought one based on your recommendation, & am (so far) very impressed with the improved blacks.

When you have come to your final conclusions, (with the EF filter) would you kindly give us your new (if they have changed) settings?

You are obviously in a unique position, having the proper test equipment and the experience to be able to evaluate the final result.

I appreciate your passing this information along to us!

I hope everyone is having a great weekend and enjoying their AE900. I also hope that there will be some new additions to this thread regarding settings for the filters.

For those who know about filter sizes. I picked up a 67mm 81C on Ebay and I would also like to try a ND filter on top. The 81C filter is threaded on the outside as well to accept another filter I am assuming...Would a 67mm ND filter fit that? Or what size would I need?

Scotty144, you need a 77mm stepup ring to use the 67mm filter. I don't know if the combo that you suggest has been tested. I do know that a ND filter will bring about changes. Do you have test equipment? The ND filter will fit the 67mm filter thread. You might also want to try the 81A plus 81B combo. You can get Sunpak filters at very low prices.

Scotty144, you need a 77mm stepup ring to use the 67mm filter. I don't know if the combo that you suggest has been tested. I do know that a ND filter will bring about changes. Do you have test equipment? The ND filter will fit the 67mm filter thread. You might also want to try the 81A plus 81B combo. You can get Sunpak filters at very low prices.


Sorry...my mistake. I have the 77mm 81C...which like I mentioned is threaded on both sides. I want to try a ND filter to help out with blacks...I have a high power screen so it is still plenty bright with 81C. So I am assuming if I get a 77m ND filter it will screw into the 77mm 81C that I have?

I'm pretty new to projectors, but I've been doing serious photography for many years . . .

A word (quite a few, actually) of caution with regards to stacking filters:

Without even getting into issues about image degradation being compounded by stacking multiple relatively low-quality lenses atop one another, you have to consider vignetting , particularly if you're going to go "cheap" by using a stepdown ring and 67mm filters.

Vignetting is cropping of the image circle caused by putting anything within the path of the light cone coming into (or in the projector case, going out of) the lens. That is, if you stack black rings (filter edges) up too far, they interfere with the projected image. The result will start as light/brightness falloff at the edges, and as it worsens become frank cropping of the image. This is particularly likely if you are stepping down to 67mm filters . . . the pj manufacturers put a 77mm lens on the front of the box for a reason . . .

The other factor that affects vignetting is zoom; the wider your pj is zoomed (the closer to the screen at a particular image size), the less "room" you have for filters. Think of the cone . . . for a particular screen size, the projection angle would be much more severe/wide open from 10' than from 25'. Thus, at 10' you have less "room" in front of the lens for stacking before your image starts hitting the edge of the filters.

This would be an excellent area for testing before people get too deep into filter purchases . . . guidelines could be developed for what angle of projection will work with 1 filter, two filters, etc.. If this does prove to be an issue, there do exist "thin" filters from Hoya and some others that were developed specifically for use with wide-angle lenses; more expensive, but an option.

And I will close with an appropriate caveat with regards to PQ . . .

Keep in mind that PQ from the projector, just like image quality in photography, is the highest of priorities. With filters, you often get what you pay for! Therefore, be appropriately cautious about stacking multiple cheap, uncoated filters in front of your lens . . . your loss in image sharpness may far outweigh your gains in color control. Remember that the image is going to be limited in sharpness to the lowest quality element, and even the best of filters will have some impact on your image.

I don't know if the ND filter will help with the blacks and it may throw the color off. You could always try it. The 77mm Nd would screw into the 77mm 81c. Are you using CKL's settings or have you calibrated your own?

Photodyer, you make excellent points. I don't think there would be a problem using the 67mm filter with the AE900 because the light only reaches a small part of the center of the filter. Stacking filters could cause a problem with the inexpensive non-coated filters in that there could be picture degradation and loss of brightness with multiple flilters as you point out. It would be very interesing to compare the use of the 77mm and 67mm filters. It would also be interesing to compare the 81A+81B combo with just using the 81C or 81EF. It would also be great to compare different brands and types of filters. Loosing image quality in the search for better blacks and CR is not a solution.

The other question that I have is if the same rules could be applied to photography and projection?

I wouldn't use an ND filter with the 81C. The ND filter will not help the color balance at all, just reduce light output. It's used mainly with properly calibrated displays that you want to lower the light output to deepen blacks. You'd be better off with adding an 81B or just getting an 81EF, which would also improve the RGB balance while cutting light output. An 81B combined with an 81C reduces light output the same an an 81EF.

Regarding the filter size, as rwestley mentioned, the projected image is through a very small section of the lens, so a slightly smaller filter will not affect the PQ. If you're familiar with the Optoma H30, it actually came with a lens shade to improve CR, that blocked off 80% of the lens with just a small window for the image to pass through. I actually had a 52mm CC30R filter placed temporarily in front of the lens without a problem. Regardless, a 67 mm filter is probably as small as you need to go.

I've always been leery about filter quality. I had a Nikon CC20R that was garbage and affected screen uniformity. I guess my aversion to stacked filters is based on a belief that's it's doubling the chance of creating image problems.

BTW, I did get the 81A and B filters yesterday and tried them out with CKL's settings. It's about 20% brighter than the EF, but that doesn't make much difference in my setup, so I'll probably stick with the EF. I have some new settings for the EF with Dynamic that I'll post later.

rwestley, since this thread's starting to grow a little, as thread starter, could you edit your first post with links to some of the more relevant posts? It would help people find settings etc. Whenever you have time. ;)

I would be using the ND filter just to reduce light output to improve black levels. I am pretty happy with how it looks with the 81C using CKL's settings. I was under the impression that a ND filter did not skew color balance?

Mike and others I have just edited the first post to include several of the tweaks with suggested settings. If anyone has suggests of tweks that might be added to the first post please let me know.

I'm sorry if I have missed the discussion about the following topic. :)

What is the difference in maximal contrast between the high and low lamp mode? If I project video black and switch the lamp mode I get no difference in the image. If I project video white and switch the lamp mode I get brighter image with the high mode. Does this mean that the high mode has a higher contrast ratio?

Janila, The higher lamp mode should not increase the contrast. Most people use the higher lamp mode in a non light controlled room. If you have a light controlled room why not use the low lamp mode and extend lamp life. You might want to try some of the tweaks posted on page one of this thread.

Hi there !

Searched this and the big AE900 Thread but did not find the answer:

HOW exactly do I enter the service menu ???

Same procedure as with the AE700 ???

Thanx for your answers,
prickelpit

It is the same procedure as the AE700. Hold the Options button for about 3 seconds.

i've just added a Hoya 77mm 81EF filter and used Mike's Normal settings...Wow! Not only do i see the increase in black levels, but the level of the detail is also improved. Picture just seems so 'right' than it was at Cinema 1. Now i see the benefit of higher contrast!

Just a question though, will i expect any improvement if i use a more expensive filter, such as B+W's 77m 81EF filter? Thanks

WWYJOE, the Hoya filter should be fine. I don't think you will see any difference with the B+W filters. Mike will soon be posting his settings for Dynamic. I hope to try them since there should be a somewhat brighter output using Dynamic.

Mike and others I have just edited the first post to include several of the tweaks with suggested settings.
Thank you, I appreciate that. Makes it really easy to keep up with everyone's findings.

While I can't prove it, I believe this is incorrect. Based upon my observation, the projector varies the bulb output in addition to the iris as scene brightness changes. This cna be observed by projecting a dim scene and then changing the bulb setting from low to high. You should see no difference. When a bright scene is projected the difference is obvious. Given this, it stands to reason that there is a greater available range of brightness (contrast) with the bulb in high mode.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it :)

Tom

Janila, The higher lamp mode should not increase the contrast. Most people use the higher lamp mode in a non light controlled room. If you have a light controlled room why not use the low lamp mode and extend lamp life. You might want to try some of the tweaks posted on page one of this thread.

Janila, The higher lamp mode should not increase the contrast. Most people use the higher lamp mode in a non light controlled room. If you have a light controlled room why not use the low lamp mode and extend lamp life. You might want to try some of the tweaks posted on page one of this thread.

Richard,

I would be careful here. With a DI pj, what you say does not quite follow as it allows for more lumens when the Iris is wide open, thus the possibility of greater On/Off. This was true with the initial assesements done with the 700 and I'd daresay it is true of the 900.

back to quiet mode...
ted

While I can't prove it, I believe this is incorrect. Based upon my observation, the projector varies the bulb output in addition to the iris as scene brightness changes.
This is what I found with measurements. A full video black screen will have the same level whether the bulb is on high or low, but a full white screen is brighter with the bulb on high (so more on/off CR). I did find that it was easier to see the projector doing it's CR tricks with the bulb on high, which I figured is probably from the bulb being slower to adjust than the iris.

--Darin

Janila & Ted I am probably wrong. I just spoke to a friend who is a photographer and he claims that a brighter output will increase contrast. I would hope that Mike or someone else can come up with the best possible settings using the low lamp mode with the best compromise. I hate to use the high lamp mode.

I just received my 900 this past Thursday and it's my first Front projector. I'm very interested in tweaking it to look it's best, but to be honest I'm at quite the loss with all the color options. While I've read various post in this thread about the settings people have used I can't help but to feel that something like the calibration of your projector is too case-by-case specific for one person to use another persons settings. Even if you own the same screen there's going to have to be variations between the hardware right? I mainly have two questions.

1. What hardware are you guys using to calibrate with? I'd definitely be interested in purchasing some additional equipment (cheaper == better for me), but if it's too cheap I imagine it's not really worth it. Especially if the equipment could be used on my computer and other tvs.

2. When I first set my projector up I hadn't yet placed my screen and was throwing my image on a wall painted faux to look like saude. Actually this in red. (http://www.sherwin-williams.com/do_it_yourself/painting_techniques/faux_painting_process/softsuede/)
Now for obvious reasons this was no good, but this being my first projector I was still amazed at how great it looked. Whites still seemed white if you didn't put a white piece of paper up, and most importantly the blacks were a deep deep black. Since I've now put my screen up I'm truely missing the black level I saw that first night. (I'm using a DYI screen. Parkland Plastics Poly-Wall). I used the AVIA DVD to do some calibrating and the brightness adjustment only got me so far. Will the calibrations of the gamma help get blacker blacks or is a filter my only answer? I've noticed the 81a mentioned, but doing a search at bhphotovideo came up with pages of pages of filters listed as 81a. Other than different mm some seemed to be about adjusting the color while others were about adjusting the black level and the price range ran from 300-40? I'm not interested in dropping another 300 on a filter just for some black levels, so hopefully I've been looking at the wrong stuff (or at least I'll just need the sub 100 ones).

Truthfully I'm a little lost as to how a projector can even produce black. Why's it so hard to get black. I'm sure you can only get as black as your screen looks with nothing thrown on it, so if you have a completely black room and you're throwing a image from the projector is it the ambient light of the image that creates a washed out black? How's a filter lower this effect? Or is it more of how low in light level the projector can throw for adding the subtle details in the shadows?

Thanks for taking the time and schooling a noob.
Nathaniel

Check the first page of the thread and try experimenting. The settings are just a guide but Mike and CLK and others have used calibration from the lens so the results should be close.

Regarding blacks & CR. A LCD does not have as good blacks as DLP projectors. That is the reason for the auto iris and use of filters. It is possible to tweak the projector and really improve the blacks and CR.

I did get higher On/Off CR with the 81EF filter and the High lamp setting than with the Low lamp. I posted it here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6554127&&#post6554127).

I have some results using the 81EF filter with the Dynamic setting, low lamp, color temp 0. Got better color balance this time around, with the exception of a greater dropoff in red at 90 and 100 IRE than without a filter. You can see that dropoff in CKL's graphs as well. Also, gamma was much better controlled than with my settings for Normal. I might still play around with those some more though. The lumen output is the same as with the Normal setting. If you're looking for greater brightness, I'm afraid you'll have to stick with the A+B or C filters. BTW, using the A+B filters only resulted in a 15% increase in output. Haven't done any CR tests yet. Here are the settings I ended up at:

Gamma
High: 2
Med: -1
Low: 5

Contrast
R: -10
G: -15
B: -11

Bright
R: -6
G: -8
B: -13

Mike, thanks for your latest post. It seems that the EF filter is the way to go unless you need the greater brightness. I hope when you get the time you will be able to post you results with the A+B filter combo. I wonder if it would be possible to have the best of both worlds. 15% better light output better CR & blacks and higher brightness? Am I asking too much? I also have the B+W EF filter and I tried it again. I did notice that I can get better sharpness than with the Hoya Combo. I wonder if there is a difference in the quality of filter brands or if putting two filters together can cause problems?

I did get higher On/Off CR with the 81EF filter and the High lamp setting than with the Low lamp. I posted it here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6554127&&#post6554127).

sorry Mike, i'm a little bit confused. You mentioned getting higher CR with the 81EF filter and the High lamp setting - is it based on your settings for Normal or Video? I thought your Normal settings was at low lamp, and for Video, there were no settings posted I have some preliminary settings, but I'll refrain from posting them until I have time to fine tune them

Thanks :)

I have updated the first page of the thread to include MikeSRC's latest settings. I have also tried to put the tweaks in better order. Thanks to all for your postings. Trying to make a great projector even better.

I do have a few questions. Does anyone who has tried using two filters or a single filter notice any difference in sharpness & is there much difference between B+W and Hoya filters?

Please be reminded that the screen, projector lamp and dvd player will incur different color temp. Same settings at different setup may show different result.

Thanks CKL for your reminder. I just included your warning on the first page of this thread. It should be pointed out that the settings posted should only be used as a reference. Individual calibration should be done for each projector.

This is my first post, due to these threads i got the ae900 on friday,
the projector has two thin black lines in the top and bottom of image.
changed dvd players it still remained, also with convergence dvd grid, right side
showed red flair drift in image, sent back to one of this sites sponsors i trust
they will ship out a new replacement.
I only knew this was a problem ,
as the guy next door has one and i could see his was ok.
the picture projected was only 480p but was so film like, will repost the replacement
impressions.

Welcome to the forum.


The red flair drift seems like the bigger problem. The lines on the top and bottom could be cause by the aspect ratio of the picture. Often there are lines on the top and bottom depending how the picture was filmed. 16x9=1.78 aspect ratio. Many films use 1.85x1 which will give a small black line on the top and bottom.

This post would problably be better served by the main thread.

sorry Mike, i'm a little bit confused. You mentioned getting higher CR with the 81EF filter and the High lamp setting - is it based on your settings for Normal or Video? I thought your Normal settings was at low lamp, and for Video, there were no settings posted

Thanks :)

The CR reading were in Video mode, but I never posted any settings for it because I decided not to use it. I expect that the on/off CR in Normal or Dynamic will be similar.

Please be reminded that the screen, projector lamp and dvd player will incur different color temp. Same settings at different setup may show different result.

Absolutely. For example, using CKL's settings for the 81A and B filters with my projector required an reduction in Blue Contrast and an increase in Blue Brightness. Gamma was fine without any changes. There can be even greater variations for the standard Contrast and Brightness settings, which is why I don't post mine.

Guys i need to buy a filter, but cant decide which one:

81A and 81B, or
81C, or
81EF

What do you guys reckon for a 85" (diag) high contrast da-lite screen.

Can anyone sum up the + and - of each filter for me?

Thanks
n0s

81A plus B cuts as much light output as the 81C, but adds more color correction (warming effect) than the 81C. The 81EF adds even more color correction, but reduces light output by 15-20% over the 81C or A+B. Your screen is not that big, so if you have good light control in your room, the 81EF would be better. Otherwise, I'd go with the 81C.

Well, thanks to you kind folks, I ordered me a B+W 81EF, a multi-coated one. Seems this gives the most appropriate correction and the brightness loss is not a concern, I prefer film-level images. I'll be trying various settings when she gets here...

Ok so ill get the 81C, but there are so many diff types of the same filter. You have Multi Coated or not, and KR-3, what does all this mean? Which do i order, i dont paying for the best one. Also do i get Hoya or B+W? So many questions i know, but i have to order from the US and pay alot of ostage to gte it too my country so id like to get the right one.

Tnaks
n0s

You don't need it to be multicoated. I prefer Hoya or B&W for quality, but I've used others as well.

Mike: Thank you for your new settings. Am I correct in assuming that these are still based on using the HDMI input, rather than component?

I will be trying these new numbers soon, & will compare them with your earlier set.

Mike, I tried your latest settings with my B+W 81EF non-multicoated. I like the picture even more. I will have to make some individual adjustments for standard brightness and contrast.
I will also experiment with the other settings when I get a chance.

I too have tried mike's latest settings for Dynamic & EF filter. The blacks have improved but color seems too deep for my taste. Overall the picture seems darker. As CKL had pointed up, results will differ based on different setups

Well, back to Normal mode for me. I'm still quite awed by the improvments over Cinema1. I'm looking forward to further tweaks from Mike based on the Normal setting. Hey Mike, thanks for the hard work! Think you can squeeze out further improvements?:)

Or perhaps someone can guide me to how to achieve deeper blacks while maintaining the current color settings? Thanks!

Yeah, the picture is darker with those settings, but the RGB %s are better balanced at each IRE level. I'm not done yet though. ;)

is there any difference if i use a multi coated vs a non multi coated 81EF filter?

It is not necessary to use a multi coated filter with a projector. I would, however, use a quality brand such as B+W or Hoya. Do not use Tiffan since the gel is sandwiched between the glass and it might fade.

Mike, we are all glad you "are not done yet." Looking forward to your results.

thanks rwestley
:)

After going through my Video Essentials calibration I was able to get the picture pretty close to perfect, greens are great now (were florecent before).

BTW: brightness is set down to -16, I was surprized by this but it looks great.

One problem now is getting the red right, it looks great on the VE test patterns but on DVD movies (using the same DVI connection) it looks more magenta. I've tried to adjust it out with the advanced settings but these settings aren't covered in my VE (1996) disk and playing with them is more frustrating than anything.

I've tried a few peoples settings but every setup is different. And ideas on getting the red right? again, all the other colors are spot on, even orange.

Thanks

I too have tried Mike's latest settings for Dynamic & EF filter. Very good indeed. Thanks Mike! I only have small problems in low IRE (10 and less) with these settings.

In fact my latest settings were pretty close to Mike's.
The only MAIN difference to Mike's settings is that i use the same ratio between colours for decreasing them, but i keep the highest colour level to "0".
I mean that instead of having
CR -10
CG -15
CB -11
BR -6
BG -8
BB -13
I have
CR 0
CG -4
CB -1
BR -0
BG -2
BB -7

Anyway, i have a few thoughts about settings on this projector.
Some problems that i found in the way...

Untill now i've spent more than 50 hours on the projector for experiments in settings, and i think this really worths the trouble.

For comparison reasons, i use Mike's settings, you can all try them and see what i am telling you.

==============================

1. The total amount of colour in these settings (even if the colour balance is right) is too much, not real at all. Just see the faces in any real movie! Reds are too much, all grass is totally green etc. So, to make it look like the real one, i decrease the colour by -19. Some times even more, in movies with too much colour.

And here the fist problem appears: When you decrease colour, the colour balance is changing! I can see more purple in less colour settings, and more red im higher colour settings!

This means that for each colour position level, there are different C&B(RGB) settings!!!
So, Mike, let as know your colour position, just to have the whole thing!
I think that the best way to make final settings is to calibrate the colour at the desired position for true levels, and then calibrate C and B RGB's.

By the way, exactly the same thing is happening with the gamma controls. The more gamma gain you give, the more green you go! Less gamma, more purple! This shouldn't happen, right? But it is happening, and all settings only work together! Every setting is changing all others... So, someone can use this as a tool to get more green for example, by increasing gamma!

=============================

2. Mike wrote: "The lumen output is the same as with the Normal setting.".
And i am asking: Am i using a different projector? Because i can see a REALLY BIG gain in lumen output in Dynamic setting, of course after calibrating master white and black (contrast and brightness). I use AVIA for calibrating them. Before calibrating them, yes, the lumen output is almost the same (with C RGB at so low levels), but after calibrating them, there is a HUGE difference, "DYNAMIC" mode has MUCH MUCH more lumens!

In "NORMAL" mode contrast setting is at +5 and brightness at +1. In "DYNAMIC" mode with Mike's settings, contrast is at +14 and brightness is at +9. The same good blacks, no burning at whites.

wwyjoe wrote that "Overall the picture seems darker.", and i am asking: how is that possible? Didn't you calibtare brightness and contrast?

I am absolutely sure that "DYNAMIC" mode gives a heck of more lumens! Much more lumens in Dynamic and low lamp mode than Normal and high lamp mode.

====================================

3. Another problem is grayscale with all these settings. From 0 IRE to 30 IRE, but also even higher. I was just looking in AVIA's greyscales, and all of these settings (Including Mike's latest ones) are not grey at all!

This can be a really big problem in some movies, for example the full of dark schenes "CIN CITY" which is all in black and white with some exceptions with red colour is some scenes. Well, you don't watch a black and white movie, but a reddish movie!

Mike's settings at 10 IRE and less are totally RED. So, every shadow in the movie is not grey-ish, but it looks red-ish!

At DYNAMIC mode i did't manage to get good grey IRE 10 settings still. But i have done that in NORMAL mode, and with the following settings, including the 81EF filter, greyscale looks perfect. Just see for yourshelf:

PIC MODE NORMAL
CONTRAST +5
BRIGHT +1
COLOUR -16
TINT -1
SHARPNESS -6
COLOUR TEMP 0
DYN IRIS ON
NR OFF
GH +3
GM 0
GL +8
CR -2
CG -3
CB -1
BR -2
BG 0
BB -3

The reason i am using +8 at "gamma low" and not calibrating master black by brightness, is that i take advantage of the more "green" i get with gigh gamma settings in low IRE levels.

With these settings blacks are blacks and greys are greys, not reds, not greens.

Although these settings are almost perfect in chroma balance (just like Mike's) and in the greyscale pattern, i prefer Dynamic settings, for the much more lumens i get there!

====================================

4. Try to change the gamma settings in a greyscale pattern. You will see very strange things happening in the screen! GH at high and GM at low gives a purple bar at 50 or 60 IRE!

I suppose we can sacryfice gamma balance for chroma balance.....

========================================

5. Sharpness at -6 is the only posistion i have almost no white bars at the left and right of the black bars in grey backgroung in AVIA sharpness plane. Do you have the same resoults here?

====================================

6. At last the 81 EF (i am using B&W multicoated, the expencive one...) is not working equally in all the surface of the screen, if the panny is not looking the screean straight ahead. No lens shift in other words...

====================================

By the above i do not mean that Mike's settings are bad, they are very very good!

I have them in the memory of my projector!

Mike, you wrote "I might still play around with those some more though.", and if you can, please do so! Also for CR tests don't forget to calibrate Master Black and Master White!

I really appreciate sharing your settings here, and helping each other to have the best resoult possible with this fine projector!

The only MAIN difference to Mike's settings is that i use the same ratio between colours for decreasing them, but i keep the highest colour level to "0".

I've done that with a number of settings. That "kind of" works, but not exactly. Some of the settings still need adjustment. You get increased brightness but it does reduce the depth of blacks.

I think that the best way to make final settings is to calibrate the colour at the desired position for true levels, and then calibrate C and B RGB's.

That is true. Before using any of my settings, you should adjust brightness, contrast, color and tint via Avia or DVE for that picture mode.

wwyjoe wrote that "Overall the picture seems darker.", and i am asking: how is that possible? Didn't you calibtare brightness and contrast?[QUOTE]

My settings for Dynamic give me about 15% less lumen output than the ones for Normal. That's fully calibrated of course.

[QUOTE]The reason i am using +8 at "gamma low" and not calibrating master black by brightness, is that i take advantage of the more "green" i get with gigh gamma settings in low IRE levels.

With these settings blacks are blacks and greys are greys, not reds, not greens.

That's an interesting idea. I'll check that out and post an RGB graph if you want. My only fear is that you're dropping the low gamma so much that you might wash out detail.

I have some new settings for the Normal position that increase brightness while only sacrificing a little CR. I really haven't done much with the Dynamic setting, so I'm going to work on that a little more.

Thanks for your input CostasEAR.

Hi Everyone,
I have been following this thread with great interest as I have an Ae900 on the way and I would like to hit the ground running with respect to tweaking this unit. I am using a matt white screen in a totally light controlled room in a dedicated theatre. I am wondering which route I should take with my filter choice. Would a combination of 81A and 81B be my best choice or should I go with the B+W 81EF?

Thanks and keep up the great work!

I have one other quick question. How are you guys using 2 filters? Do the filters screw into each other or are you using a step up ring?

Thanks.

Mancubus, if you use two filters one will screw into the other if they are 77mm filters. If you use the lower cost 67mm filters you will need a step up ring. Regarding your question about using the 81A and 81B vs the 81E. It depends on the size of your screen. I think that if your are under 95" the 81EF should be fine. Mike has done a lot of work with this filter and will continue to post his new settings.

Thanks for the reply. My screen is 110" so I will look for the 81A and B filters. Any Torontonians know where is the best place to get these filters?

Thanks.

Why use 81A + 81B and not a single 81C??? I dont get the diff caus CKL makes it seem that 81A+81B = 81C

Im confused :)

If that's true then I will definitely go that route. I just priced the filters at Henry's and they are $69.99 Cdn each :-/. I'd rather pay a little bit more (or the same) and use one filter instead of two.

Mike you said: "My settings for Dynamic give me about 15% less lumen output than the ones for Normal. That's fully calibrated of course."

Well, help me here, i can't understand this....
You calibrated brightness and contrast before changing the C&B RGB values or/and after that? I am sure that contrast and brightness need calibrating also at the end of the whole proccess.

I am also sure that you know what you are doing, and i feel as if i am making the whole thing completely wrong, but hey, i know what i am watching, i am not blind, and Dynamic looks like with ~15% more lumens output than Normal! Sorry, i cannot really measure that...

I mean that after for example i put your settings for C&B RGB, i go with AVIA (PAL system - i wonder, does PAL makes that difference in our settings?) and on white pattern with 2 moving grey bars i calibrate contrast, and after that on black pattern with 2 moving grey bars i calibrate brightness. And this once again, because changing brighness usually changes contrast also.

Well, you have my settings, try them and see for yourshelf how much brighter Dynamic looks. For your settings after calibration contrast is at +14 and brightness is at +9.
Did you try my NORMAL mode settings?

If you like, post your full settings, including contrast, brightness and colour.

I think that the initial measurements of 525 lumens in Normal/Video and 575 lumens in Dynamic, gives a difference of 50 lumens more in Dynamic which cannot change, whatever you do!
With the filter i suppose lumens are 345 in Normal and 380 in Dynamic, which gives about 10% more lumens in Dynamic.
Cinema 1 is ~300 lumens without the filter and ~200 with the filter, too dark.

Anyway, i'd like to get to the bottom of this, and i could use all the available help... so thank you in advance!

IMHO Dynamic is the best mode to use with the filter, (greater CR) but the most difficult to calibrate! So, i will try more for beter resoults for this mode, and if you Mike or anyone else have time for experiments, this is the mode to search!

Why use 81A + 81B and not a single 81C??? I dont get the diff caus CKL makes it seem that 81A+81B = 81C

Im confused :)

They're not the same in their effect on color temp, just in light reduction.

81A lowers color temp 200K
81B lowers color temp 300K
81C lowers color temp 400K
81EF lowers color temp 650K

So, 81A+B lowers color temp 500K, vs. 400K for 81C

Well, help me here, i can't understand this....
You calibrated brightness and contrast before changing the C&B RGB values or/and after that? I am sure that contrast and brightness need calibrating also at the end of the whole proccess.

Yes. With a full screen 100 IRE field I get 7.5 ft-L with Dynamic and 9.1 ft-L with Normal.

I think that the initial measurements of 525 lumens in Normal/Video and 575 lumens in Dynamic, gives a difference of 50 lumens more in Dynamic which cannot change, whatever you do!

Sure it can. Each of those modes is changing RGB %s and color temp, so when you dial them back in Dynamic mode, for example, you reduce the lumen output. Just for fun, I did three different RGB C&B settings on Normal and the output varies from 6.9 to 10.0 ft-L.

Anyway, I agree that Dynamic will be the best mode to use with the 81EF, but there are tradeoffs. To achieve a proper RGB balance from 30-80 IRE, you have to put up with an increase in red in the lower IRE levels and a decrease at the highest.

They're not the same in their effect on color temp, just in light reduction.

81A lowers color temp 200K
81B lowers color temp 300K
81C lowers color temp 400K
81EF lowers color temp 650K

So, 81A+B lowers color temp 500K, vs. 400K for 81C

I see, so then is it worth buying both A and B or you reckon i can make do with C, i mean is the difference noticable, if so ill get A and B...

n0s,

You might PM MikeSRC about some of his extra filters....

Got my B+W KR6 81EF and applied Mike's Dynamic settings. Immediately noticeable improvement over Cinema1 in image dynamics/contrast, blacks, really nice stuff...thanks,Mike. Colors pop much more, too. I have no way to measure accuracy, but flesh tones on the whole seem good, unlike Dynamic w/o filter.

I'm going to work on those setting some more and see if I can get a better balance and a brighter picture. CostasEAR is correct abot there being too much red in the loest IRE levels, but so far, making it balance at 10-20 IRE adversely affects the 30-50 IRE range.

Anyway, I have a CC40R filter on order that I hope will be the best solution yet. ;)

Mike, what brand of cc40r filter did your order? B+W filters are very expensive and I think that Tiffan might be a problem since they use gel between the glass. Looking forward to your new tests.

I'm going to work on those setting some more and see if I can get a better balance and a brighter picture.
Well, I'll be paying attention. :) Right now, it's more than bright enough for me.

Mike, what brand of cc40r filter did your order?

I'm trying a 67 mm one made by Harrison & Harrison. They're a old company (76 years in business) here in CA that makes their own threaded glass filters. They're reasonably priced and have good press from what I've been able to find out. They have an East coast dealer that has the same prices as the factory. You can get anything from CC05 to 105. They don't have a website, but here's (http://www.chamblesscineequip.com/catalog/filters.htm) the East Coast dealer.

Mike.... ain't it kinda silly to have to go to an east coast dealer to buy a filter built in the same WEST coast state you live in??

Almost as much fun as I am having trying to find out where I can demo a Palm E2_GPS! but that is another very frustrating story!

hi there-

first of all, thanks to everyone for not only the answers but also the questions, which help complete the overall picture.

i've read through this entire thread and -- unless i missed something in one of the posts -- still have a question.

i'm going to be projecting onto a carada 1.4 gain white screen in a room that's basically light controlled. i've already bought an 81C filter (before coming across this thread, alas) and am looking for what settings would be best. it seems there are settings from mike for use with an 81ef, but i haven't seen anything from him on an 81c. and i've seen the one from ckl for 81a+b, which presumably should be similar to that for 81c, but i don't know if that's with a screen similar to mine.

would appreciate any tips on what settings to use (or how to adjust ones already given) for my setup. and given my setup, if folks think that i'm best off with an 81ef, that'd be useful to know also (i could try to exchange my 81c or just buy an 81ef).

oh, one last thing, from what mike (and others) have said, it seems like a setting that uses low lamp mode would be most useful.

thanks!

Mike.... ain't it kinda silly to have to go to an east coast dealer to buy a filter built in the same WEST coast state you live in??


Yeah. I've had that happen a few times, but in this case I was able to contact the company and order one direct from them. They actually are made-to-order.

Getting myself an 81EF Cokin P filter to set in front of the lens. Works a treat and is very cheap compared to a threaded filter. Then hopefully i can get the projector calibrated in Dynamic mode and try to get the deepest blacks as well as the best contrast ratio. The colour reporduction is pretty important, but i dont mind the sky's and white parts of the scene having a slight bias towards yellow.

If anyone has any tried settings with the 81EF and Dynamic, can they let me know.

Thanks
Chris

Oriphus, check the first page of this thread. Mike did work with the 81EF using Dynamic. It is the first setting listed.

Then hopefully i can get the projector calibrated in Dynamic mode and try to get the deepest blacks as well as the best contrast ratio. The colour reporduction is pretty important, but i dont mind the sky's and white parts of the scene having a slight bias towards yellow.
I think you'll like Mike's settings.

Mike & others, I just spoke to someone from Harrison & Harrison regarding their filters. I was ready to place an order before they told me that there may be a problem with projectors because the filters are made for cameras and that the heat from the projector could destroy the filter. They are made with a specific Gel between the glass and it could melt. I have tried a Google search for alternatives and I only come up with a B+W which is more that twice as much.

I wonder how much heat they can take. You would think that they're able to withstand being out in the sun for hours. There really isn't much heat where the filter attaches. My 81EF barely gets warm.

The only other alternative to the B&W filter I've been able to find is a 3X3 Optiflex resin filter, but you need some Cokin adapters to screw it on to the AE900.

I wonder if it would be possible to use Lee filters and to get an adaptor to work with them.
They are very low in cost and can be replaced. I think they sell the material by the roll or sheet.

They also can provide a filter test book with may types of filters which may be good to try.

http://www.leefiltersusa.com/NewLightProducts/LightNewProdSWB.html

They also sell adaptor rings

http://www.leefiltersusa.com/CameraPrice/CamPriceRings.html

They also have filters to use with the adaptors sold by the sheet.

http://www.leefiltersusa.com/LightPrice/LightPriceHTSheet.html

It might be worth it to get their book and try the swatches before spending money on more filters?

I just called Lee filters and they will send out their swatch book at no cost. The swatches are large enough to place in front of the lens for testing.
They also told me that one can make a holder for the filter or that a 4x4 to 77 mm adaptor is available.

Lee filters can be reached at 1-800-576-5055. I believe I spoke to John. The other person to speak to is Casey. Just ask them to send the swatch book. If you look at CKL's review you will see how he placed a gel filter in front of the lens. I also inquired about heat problems and I was told that it should not be a problem in most cases. The good thing is that once the right filter is found it can be replaced at a very low cost.

It might even be possible to get a Lee filter that is similar to the cc40r. I forgot to ask them. Some of the colors are available in High Temperature sheets.

Looking back at the old HS-10 tweak threads where they were using a CC40R, some people had problems with warping and bleaching of the gel filters. I believe they were recommending the resin filters, but you're right that even if you have to replace the filter on a regular basis, they're not that expensive.

The swatch book sounds like a good way to go. I've already tried a CC30R and it wasn't enough. Higher numbered CC filters might also reduce light too much, but who knows. The CC40R should be the same as the 81EF.

Mike, when you get a chance you might want to give Lee filters a call. They are in Calif. and they would be happy to send you the swatch book. I got the idea from the old AE700 tweak thread. It might be interesting to see if any of the samples work better. I have a friend who owns a metal shop and he could make adaptors if you could find the best filter to use. Since the cost of the Gel sheets are so low and you can get several filters out of a sheet, there should be no problem with bleaching. If the filter goes bad all you have to do is change it.

I am using the EF with your settings for Dynamic mode. I have also used DVE for the regular settings. The picture is great but we are always looking for the best possible results. Looking forward to seeing your new settings with the 81EF in normal mode and your work with other filters.

Thanks again from all of us.

Mike, when you get a chance you might want to give Lee filters a call. They are in Calif. and they would be happy to send you the swatch book.

Thanks. Just made the call. :D


Thanks again from all of us.

You're welcome. I'm going to work a little more with the EF filter this weekend, and I'll let you all know if I come up with any changes. I can only play around with it for so long before I just want to sit back and enjoy a movie. ;)

BTW, I was running the 900 for a few hours this morning and the filter never even got warm, so I don't think there's a problem with any filter and heat.

Mike, I agree the main thing is to watch movies. We can and do get a little crazy. I am going to put in a movie now and enjoy the AE900. Enjoy your weekend.

I want to thank you'll for the abundance of information in this thread, its so nice to have this kind of support !
What would be the recommendations for this setup:
106 inch da-lite 1.3 gain screen at 11 ft viewing distance in a totally light controlled environment
The 81a/81b combo, the 81 c or the 81 ef filter ?

Mike seems to prefer the 81ef filter and has done quite a bit of work with it. It should be fine in a light controlled environment even using low lamp mode. I have a slightly smaller screen and it works very well. I thought that it was not bright enough but I was wrong. I get plenty of light output using this filter. You can get slightly more output with the combo but I don't think you really need it in your situation. Try the different settings on the first page of the thread with and without the filter. I would also get DVE or AVIA setup disks and use them before you try the tweaks.

I got hold of a 81A and 81B cokin filter today, tried them out with CKL's settings, which were quite a bit off with my setup, so i tuned projector using DVE and my trusty eyes :), and to be honest, i find the picture too warm with this combo. I removed the 81A and had just the 81B on and that looked alot better to me, maybe i just like a cooler picture. Im tempted to get a 81C seeing as its less warm then the 81A+B combo but warmer then just the 81B but cant decide if its worth my time and money or i shold just stick to the 81B which does look good, i mean im finally able to use dynamic mode, which is a plus. So what do you guys reckon, do i bother with the 81C???

thanks
n0s

NOS, you might want to try Mike's settings for Dyanamic using the 81EF filter. Be sure to tune with DVE if you try this filter. Each individual setup is different and tastes are different.
What Mike and CKL are trying to do is to get the most accurate settings possible with the best blacks and CR using the filters.

Ok, please excuse the noobishness of my questions, but I want to get a little more information before I go with a filter. Does the cut in brightness caused by a filter make a large screen size of say 120" diagonal unfeasible even in a completely light controlled, black wall and ceiling'd room? Will the 77mm B&W 81ef filter linked to on the first page snap right on to the lense of the 900? If not how does one attach it?

And lastly, the only problem I really have with the picture of my 900 is that in very dark scenes, where areas of the screen are meant to be completely black, the "contrast" between the prescence of picture in the lighted area and the absence of picture in the dark area is jarring when there is movement. Picture just kind of 'appears' out of the grayish black ether, so to speak. I can deal with the relative lack of shadow detail in brighter scenes no problem, but this is a bit annoying. Is this one of the things people are refering to when they say there is no perfect projector under $3500? Would a filter help this at all? I'm using the settings Jason here at avs emailed me, on normal mode.

Thanks.

Capek, I will try to answer your questions.

1. As you know there will be some light loss with the filter. You do not state what type of screen you are using. You would probably be ok with a high gain screen but at 120" you may be stretching the limit with a matte white screen using the low lamp mode. You may have more success with the high lamp settings. I would try the tweaks on page one.

2. The filter screws into the thread on the lens.

3. I do feel that you will improve shadow detail with the filter and the blacks and CR will look much better. You should use DVE or AVIA to setup your projector when trying the different settings.

I tried out Mike's 81EF/Normal settings today. I think I prefer them to Dynamic. The colors are pretty good in Dynamic, but gamma seems a little, I dunno...hyper-contrasty? Normal seems more like film. Both calibrated for C/B with THX Optimode from my Oppo @ 720p.

Capek, I will try to answer your questions.

1. As you know there will be some light loss with the filter. You do not state what type of screen you are using. You would probably be ok with a high gain screen but at 120" you may be stretching the limit with a matte white screen using the low lamp mode. You may have more success with the high lamp settings. I would try the tweaks on page one.

2. The filter screws into the thread on the lens.

3. I do feel that you will improve shadow detail with the filter and the blacks and CR will look much better. You should use DVE or AVIA to setup your projector when trying the different settings.
Thanks for the reply. At the moment, I'm using a cheapo screen material from ebay. It's matte white canvas with a gain of 1.3. I plan on upgrading in the future, but at the moment funds are tight, so I'll live with it for a while. Do you think a better screen would help with the "picture appearing out of the ether" problem I'm having? And is that problem par for the course with these cheaper projectors?

I have AVIA, but I bought it from a used bookstore in my area, and the color filters didn't make it, so while I tried using it, all I could tweak was the basic settings, sharpness, contrast, brightness etc. Is there a place that sells just the filters? Like a b&m camera or art store, or on the net? I'd really rather not buy another AVIA new just for the filters.

My last question is, out of the 81a+b, 81c, and 81ef, is there a difference between the amount of brightness they cut out of the picture? Would one be better for those wanting a larger image size? And I guess the key thing to look for is to make sure the filter is 77mm in size, right?

Thanks again for your help. It is very much appreciated.

I overlooked the importance of calibrating brightness and contrast prior to applying mike's dynamic settings. Now, having done so, i prefer the Dynamic settings to Normal - mainly the colors are richer. I also take back saying earlier that the Dynamic picture looks darker (that's because i did not calibrate brightness!). After calibration, i find that the Dynamic picture is abt 10% to 15% brighter. Now Dynamic is my choice!

Just for info, my contrast after Avia calibration is -1 for Normal, +10 for Dynamic.


Looking forward to further tweaks from Mike :)

Capek, I will try to answer some of your questions the best I can. Other members might want to add more or correct me.

1. You can get a filter for DVe for a few dollars at the like below. I believe that it can also be used for AVIA

http://www.videoessentials.com/extra_filters.php

2. The 81A + 81 B will give your more light output than the 81EF. At this time I prefer the 81EF using Mike's Dynamic setting. I have tried the 81A+81B combo but I think there is some loss of sharpness using two filters. I still have to try the combo again to be sure.

3. Regarding your screen. I like matte white screens because of the bigger viewing angle.
Others have recommended the low cost Grey Wolf screen with a 1.8 output. I have not tried it myself but the reports have been very good. I believe the largest Grey Wolf is 106".

4. To save money, Mike has pointed out that you can use 67mm filters with a stepup ring.

rwestley, your responses have been a big help, and were just what I was looking for. I feel much better about plunging in to the whole filter and tweaking process.

Thanks again.

Well, just so you all have something to play with until I get my CC40R filter :D , here are some new settings for Normal with the 81EF filter that I like a little better than the original ones. It's a little brighter for those who want a brighter picture, but blacks aren't quite as deep. Gamma is better controlled, as is color temp and RGB %s. As always, set global brightness and contrast first, then check it again after you change the settings.

Gamma
High: 3
Med: 2
Low: 5

Contrast
R: -1
G: -7
B: -2

Bright
R: -1
G: 1
B: -3

Mike: What screen material/gain are you using?

Thanks again for taking the time to post your settings. It is very generous of you to spend your time this way.

Ron

Mike, thanks agan for your new settings. I have posted them on page one of the thread.

Mike: What screen material/gain are you using?


I use two screens, but all readings are taken directly from the projector. One screen is a standard, 1.0 gain matte white and the other is a 1.8 gain GreyWolf.

As always, set global brightness and contrast first, then check it again after you change the settings.

So just to get this right ..Your supposed to do all the avia calibration BEFORE you put the filter on the projector and then install the filter and then use your settings ?
..or
Put the filter on the projector, then do all avia calibration and then apply your settings ?

Mike, I just quickly tried your new settings. It seems that the detail in the picture is much better. The picture is brighter and even though the blacks may not be quite as deep, the picture just seems much better. I used DVE quickly for the initial setup and than put on the opening scene of "Sin City" which has great blacks and very good detail. The picture jumps right off the screen. The brightness is much improved. I like it much better than your Dynamic settings. I will spend more time when I get a chance with DVE and and the global brightness and contrast.

Put the filter on the projector, then do all avia calibration and then apply your settings ?

Yes.

Plugged in the new Normal settings, I definitely like those better than Dynamic...thanks Mike.

Mike, correct me if i'm wrong, but shldn't the Avia calibration be left to last? I.e:

1) Put on filter
2) Apply settings
3) Use Avia to calibrate Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, Color (Saturation), and Tint (Hue)

I thought it is more logical to leave the Avia calibration as the last step, so that the final picture adheres to the test patterns as per Avia's standards (for Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, Color and Hue)?

Btw, i really luv the latest Normal settings. See the attached pictures i took of Toy Story - notice the increased 3D look of Woody's facial features in Normal (latest) settings compared to Dynamic

Thanks Mike!

Hello everyone! Thank you all for your amazing posts and helpfull observations! Just got the 900 and the picture looks amazing. Definitly great improvement over my old pj. A-B comparisons with other pj's have showned me that it's a more detailed pj than the others. BUT... I DO have a small converge problem. I've read the posts consearning the lens shift and the results on the problem. But the problem remains. It's not a big problem from my viewing distance, virtualy invisible (6 meters-140'' screen), but my concerne is how will affect the picture in HD mode. The DVD is of lower resolution and it hides the extra details of the converge problem. Because i don't have any HD material to watch, PLEASE someone tell me if this problem is more noticeable to HD than SD. If it is the same, then i'm ok. My next pj will be when the 1920x1080 pj's go under 2000$! But if it's worse then i'm consindering of changing the pj. I'm also interested if there's any news about the solving of this. I'm begining to thing that it's not a real problem but more like a sideffect of the smoothscreen. I think that it's not possible to have such a amazingly detailed picture with misconverged panels. And one more question: What exactly does the flicker tweak? Will i see any improvement over the picture? And how? I know mabe this might have been answered somewhere else but i'm lost over here and my English are a bit rusty. Thank's in advance!!!!

It's a little brighter for those who want a brighter picture, but blacks aren't quite as deep.
Hey, Mike...how 'bout some settings that maximize blacks and sacrifice brightness, would those be your original Normal settings?

Mike, correct me if i'm wrong, but shldn't the Avia calibration be left to last? I.e:

1) Put on filter
2) Apply settings
3) Use Avia to calibrate Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, Color (Saturation), and Tint (Hue)



The procedure I use was outlined in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5020386&&#post5020386). Glen is a long time OpticOne user and calibrator in my area. The procedure is for Colorfacts, but it's the same for OpticOne. Color and tint are not affected by the calibration, but I think it's a good idea to recheck contrast and brightness at the end.

I just did a basic calibration (my first) using DVE and a Pioneer 79AVi DVD player. The DVD player was set to Direct (0 IRE, and all the defaults) and after using DVE I ended up with contrast = 0, brightness = -1, color and = -10 (to reduce the blues), tint = +2, and sharpness = -3. This was all done on Normal picture mode. The picture definately looks good to my untrained eye, but wondering if there are some other settings people recommend? Do the settings above seem right? Seems like most of this thread revolves around filters and I'm not using one, so I'm looking for non filter tweaks.

Also anyone have one to one pixel mapping working with an external scaler with the AE900? I have a VP30 on order and wondering if 1:1 pixel mapping works correctly on the AE900, as I know there were some issues with the AE700.

jcg

JCG, you might want to look at page one of the thread. There are several settings without the use of filters. You might also want to contact Jason from AVS fourms to get his settings.

It looks like only one person has posted results for no filter and normal mode (DenisT's results using no filter and the Smart III). I guess my question is can this kind of calibration be done with just DVE? I haven't gone into the service menu where I believe most of these settings are, and so far have just done the basic calibration using the standard setting adjustments. I didn't see any DVE sections where seperate gamma adjustments were discussed.

jcg

JCG, you might want to look at page one of the thread. There are several settings without the use of filters. You might also want to contact Jason from AVS fourms to get his settings.

The settings listed are in the advanced menu, not the service menu. However, setting both gamma and greyscale is not something you can do correctly without the proper measuring equipment. If you've been doing it for a long time and have a good eye for it, you can use grey ramps and the gamma patterns to approximate the correct settings, but it will still be off.

Normal is pretty far off from the correct greyscale, so it's even harder to properly calibrate without equipment, that's why I recommend using Cinema 1 unless you need more brightness.

Can someone please explain to me exactly what Contrast R,B,G and Brightness R,B,G (in the advanced menu) do to the grey scale? In other words, how do you use this part of the menu? Do they come into play anywhere else when using the AVIA disc?

Thanks,
Rick

Can someone please explain to me exactly what Contrast R,B,G and Brightness R,B,G (in the advanced menu) do to the grey scale?

Here's a good place to start: Greyscale Calibration (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/avhardware/Grayscalecalibration1.html)

Nice article Mike, but it didn't fully answer my question. Am I correct to assume that CR,B,G adjust the darker part of the greyscale, and BR,B,G adjust the whiter side?

Thanks again,
Rick

Nope, just the opposite. Contrast adjusts white level and brightness adjusts black level.

Mike:

Would it be possible for you to give us some settings for using the 81EF filter with the component imput?

The reason I ask is I am using my HDMI imput for DVD, & component imput for my Cox Scientific Atlanta 8000 HD box, & don't want to have to remove & reattach the filter each time I go back & forth between high def. and DVD.

William, I don't know if Cox offers a Scientif Atlanta with DVI or HDMI output. If they do you might want to ask them to switch your box. You could purchase a low cost HDMI switcher and a cable from Monoprice and you would have the advantage of using HDMi for both the Scientific Atlanta and the DVD player. You would also be able to only run one cable to the projector and would not have to switch the settings on the Panasonic for DVD and HD TV.

Anyone have one to one pixel mapping working with an external scaler with the AE900? I have a VP30 on order and wondering if 1:1 pixel mapping works correctly on the AE900, as I know there were some issues with the AE700. What mode do you need to set the AE900 to to get 1:1 pixel mapping working?

jcg

1x1 pixel mappin does work on the AE900. Turn overscanning off.

I have a cable question. I have purchased two different brands of 50ft component cables, and both produce lines that scan from the bottom to the top of the screen very slowly. Both companies came reccomended from the forum. The signal is coming from a new Motorola HD cable box, but 10ft Monster cables work fine. Does anyone have any sugestions?

Kris,

Sounds like your problem is electrical and not due to the video cables. I'm sure others here can expand on that - feedback and noise are over my head.

I have a cable question. I have purchased two different brands of 50ft component cables, and both produce lines that scan from the bottom to the top of the screen very slowly. Both companies came reccomended from the forum. The signal is coming from a new Motorola HD cable box, but 10ft Monster cables work fine. Does anyone have any sugestions?

Well, 50' is pretty long for any component cable, especially if you have any electrical interference in the area that it could pick up. If the 10' cable works fine, it seems to be related to the excessive length. Any way you could get by with a shorter cable, 30' or less?

I had the same problem with my HTPC. My videocard has a VGA and DVI port. When I connected it with a DVI adaptor to VGA, I get faint scanlines running trough the screen. Tried a short and a long cable, no difference. So I decided to connect the projector directly to VGA port that my PC monitor normally uses, and the scanlines were gone.

Now I see very faint scanlines on my pc monitor, but have to look real hard. I'd rather have them on a small monitor instead of a big screen. :)


btw MikeSRC, thx for sharing your settings, it looks great here. Cinema 1 has this yellowish tint I don't like. Normal mode with your settings looks a whole lot better.

What does annoy me atm is that black is really black, and a lot of detail gets lost. I watched star wars epi III last night, and certain portions on the robes they wear just get blacked out, without any detail. improving brightness just washes out the image and I get no extra detail out of it. I'm using and MDF plate atm, and it's basicly a hotspotting galore, and reflective. I hope it improves when I paint it.

I just found out the outlet I am using has the ground wire connected to the neutral. This is not a true gound. I am not sure if this is why the lines came into play at the 50ft length because my shorter lengts are perfect.

I had the same problem with my HTPC. My videocard has a VGA and DVI port. When I connected it with a DVI adaptor to VGA, I get faint scanlines running trough the screen. Tried a short and a long cable, no difference. So I decided to connect the projector directly to VGA port that my PC monitor normally uses, and the scanlines were gone.

Now I see very faint scanlines on my pc monitor, but have to look real hard. I'd rather have them on a small monitor instead of a big screen. :)


btw MikeSRC, thx for sharing your settings, it looks great here. Cinema 1 has this yellowish tint I don't like. Normal mode with your settings looks a whole lot better.

What does annoy me atm is that black is really black, and a lot of detail gets lost. I watched star wars epi III last night, and certain portions on the robes they wear just get blacked out, without any detail. improving brightness just washes out the image and I get no extra detail out of it. I'm using and MDF plate atm, and it's basicly a hotspotting galore, and reflective. I hope it improves when I paint it.


You should try bumping up the 'Gamma Low' setting in the advanced menu while the movie is paused on some of the material you describe. It may just take a tick or two to get the detail to show without sacrificing your black level.

btw MikeSRC, thx for sharing your settings, it looks great here. Cinema 1 has this yellowish tint I don't like. Normal mode with your settings looks a whole lot better.

What does annoy me atm is that black is really black, and a lot of detail gets lost.

The settings are for use with the 81EF filter. Do you have that filter? Without the filter they'd be much different. Also, if you have Avia or DVE, make sure you're not crushing blacks with your brightness setting.

BTW, just received the CC40R filter. Looks like it's very well made. Will try it out tonight and let you know. :D

Mike, We would love to see your results with the cc40r filter. Hope it provides the best alternative.

Hello to everybody and Mery Christmas with a very Happy New Year. Has anybody found the Service Manual of Pany 900 and where? Because there are some faulty items in the market it will be very usefull to an electronic engineer like me to do this good projector better.
Thank you for your attention.
Regards,
John

So that's all there is to it? I already have overscanning off, so how do I tell if I'm in 1:1 mode? Are you saying if I just send it a 720P signal then I'm automatically in 1:1 mode if overscanning is off?

jcg

1x1 pixel mappin does work on the AE900. Turn overscanning off.

Hello to everybody and Mery Christmas with a very Happy New Year. Has anybody found the Service Manual of Pany 900 and where?

Hi John,

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you (and everyone else) as well. I have not seen any postings of the AE900 service manual, but the AE700's was posted in the AE700 tweaks thread. Given the similarity between the two, there is much in the AE700 manual that can be applied to the 900. Here's the link: AE700 Service Manual (http://www.happyapplefarm.net/~avs/)

I guess Im a bit dense, as Im still not sure the exact order of calibration I should use when using Mike numbers and the 81 ef filter..

I calibrate brightness/contrast/color/hue with avia PRIOR to setting Mikes numbers and then I put in mikes numbers on the gamma etc...
Should I then go back and recalibrate brightness/contrast/color/hue via avia AGAIN ? ..because I went back and checked and the contrast and brightness and even color and hue to a lesser degree ( which I set perfectly prior to inputing mikes numbers) ..were drastically different on avia the second time around then calibration prior to inputting mikes numbers..So Im not sure if I should do the second calibration via avia or not ?

Maybe it would just be better to input mikes numbers before ANY avia calibration and then calibrate via avia ?

It is good to calbrate brightness and contrast first. I would also check it again after using Mike's settings.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, & Happy New Year to all.

I must say I disagree setting brightness/contrast/color/hue before. End result will be same with more dancing around the christmas tree ;)

Merry Christmas!

The settings are for use with the 81EF filter. Do you have that filter? Without the filter they'd be much different. Also, if you have Avia or DVE, make sure you're not crushing blacks with your brightness setting.

BTW, just received the CC40R filter. Looks like it's very well made. Will try it out tonight and let you know. :D

Don't have the filter, tried the settings out of curiosity. It still looks better then any preset. I'm not to concerned yet anyways with this temp screen. It's reflective and high gain, it's making me lose quite some detail, and washes out the image on bright scenes (my room has light colors all over, white ceiling), it doesn't even have a border yet, it's just a white panel. I guess painting it properly with a light grey and adding a velvet frame will make quite some difference. I wish i could repaint my room with dark colors tho, hmm, maybe I should. :)

I am running HDMI from an Oppo DVD player (1022 firmware, brightness set to -8 in the DVD controls, all other auto settings off).

I used MikeSRC/CKL's no-filter, Cinema1, Low-lamp advanced menu settings from the first post:

Gamma -
High= 0
Mid= -1
Low= 2

Contrast -
Red= 1
Green= -5
Blue= 1

Bright -
Red= 0
Green= 0
Blue= -1


I then used AVIA to set the basic picture controls. I got:

Contrast = +15 (!)
Brightness = +11 (!)
Color = -2
Tint = +2
Sharpness = -2


I am concerned that my Contrast and Brightness settings look way to high.

This is my first front projector and on my previous rear-projection HDTV, I had contrast at around 40% and Brightness at around 60%. The setting that I have for AE900 looks more like Contrast at 75% and brightness at 65% (assuming the factory default of 0 is the 50% point).

Also with this higher Contrast/Brightness setting, I seem to have gotten a one time screen flicker effect (like a candle light instead of a lamp/bulb) that lasted a minute and went away. So I reduced both the setting back to the factory presets of 0.

Will these settings cause any permanent damage to the PJ? Should I stay with the factory presets for Contrast/Brightness or go with the AVIA setting and see if the flicker returns?

Thanks & Merry Christmas!

Your brightness settings on the Oppo should be -3 with the 1022 firmware. This may be the reason why your brightness settings are very high. I would change the setting and recalibrate.

uhhh he said his brightness was -11 thats very off especially if he has the oppo set on -8!

Something is def wrong, for eg i have oppo on -3 and brightness is +1

His contrast seems stupidly high too, something is def not right mate, hard to tell what though.

n0s,
Sorry about that. Typo on my part. The Brightness is at +11, Contrast at +15.

I will change the Oppo brightness to -3 like rwesley said and recalibrate. It should bring down the AE900 brightness setting. But I am guessing that the Contrast will not be affected. I will leave it near 0 for now since it was looking way too bright at +15 anyway.

Thanks for the suggestions.

That sonds alot better, if you up the oppo to -3, the brightness will sort its self out for sure. Contrast can be high, if you check CKL's review (link on first page) youll see he has his high too. I would not worry too much, it was the brightness that had me confused but that seems ok now. :)

Noob question, but how do you access the service menu? And what should I avoid changing (what can I really screw up ;))?

and let me just clarify this: With Cinema1, you get the best white levels out of the box, but less lumens and with Natural, you get semi-good white levels and higher lumens? What does everyone suggest you start out with when calibrating? Normal? Cinema1?

I've been reading the thread and my head is spinning, so I'm going to bed :)

One last thing, but maybe someone can create a step-by-step guide on how to calibrate your projector with only Avia and DVE....since it seems a lot of people (me being one of them) seem to only own (if that) these two pieces of software. Since most of us don't have the light sensors and other hardware that a few do, I think a nice little guide would really solve a bunch of questions. Maybe?

TIA

You can access the service menu by going into picture Go to the Option menu and hold down the enter button on the remote for about 3 or 4 seconds. I would not make changes in the settings unless you have a problem. It is possible to reduce VB by using the flicker adjustments. Be sure to write down your original settings before you start.

As you know there are guides on both AVIA and DVE but they can be confusing. I would hope that someone with a lot of experience could write a "quick start" user guide for each disk. It would be helpful for the new user as quick start guides are often helpful for people who buy new equipment.

I thought this was pretty good:

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/Video-calibration.html

69 page manual for DVE : http://www.videoessentials.com/docs/DVE_Consumer_NTSC.pdf

I have posted links to the Ram quick setup guide and the full DVE guide on the first page.

Thanks....I've got one more question

I'm trying to use the cursor in the CCM to setup the red and green flashing in Avia but I can't seem to get it to look like the blue flashing screen (one solid color)...how do you use the cursor to set the red and green saturation? Will it ever become one-solid color or is that impossible?

I'm getting DVE on Thursday (hopefully), does that disc have any better screens for setting up green and red?

Thanks again for all the replies

Dear Wesley,

How do you get the oppo firmware update 1022,can it be had from there website. i have got the player last week , which i would think has the latest version 1111, does the player list the version
someware , i will be connecting it via hdmi to the panny 900 which i will receive back from one of
this sites sponsors for convergence problem.

Dear Wesley,

How do you get the oppo firmware update 1022,can it be had from there website.

You can get it here: http://www.oppodigital.com/opdv971h_firmware_1022_download.html

Thanks....I've got one more question

I'm trying to use the cursor in the CCM to setup the red and green flashing in Avia but I can't seem to get it to look like the blue flashing screen (one solid color)...how do you use the cursor to set the red and green saturation?

You can't reallly use the CCM feature for for that. It only creates a small window that can be measured, but it's not big enough to use. Just stick with the blue bars and the global color and tint.

Was remounting the 900 on a shelf this weekend, so I didn't get a chance to play much with the CC40R filter yet. Early results are that while it does give a better color balance and less orangey reds, it seems to reduce output a little more than the 81EF. They're both supposed to be the same in that regard, so I'm going to have to play with it some more.

For those with no filter, here are some calibrated settings for the Normal mode to try:

Low Lamp, Color Temp = -4

Gamma -
High= 0
Mid= 1
Low= 3

Contrast -
Red= 0
Green= -8
Blue= -8

Bright -
Red= 0
Green= 2
Blue= -1

You can't reallly use the CCM feature for for that. It only creates a small window that can be measured, but it's not big enough to use. Just stick with the blue bars and the global color and tint.


ok so how should I further tweak the CCM? I think the stock reds are still too much so I did tone them down a little with the CCM....greens were okay but could still use some work. Can you suggest a diagram which will allow me to set these up better (Either in Avia or DVE)?

Thanks Mike.

oh and btw, are your unfiltered settings (Cinema 1) with the lamp on high? or low?
either way, it really improved skin tones and makes the picture more 3D

All of my settings are on Low lamp.

As far as tweaking the CCM is concerned, there's really not much you can do without calibration equipment. Even with the equipment, the results are not what I'd like. You just have to compare the colors to a chart or some other display where you like the results. As you've noted, both red and green are oversaturated, so you might just bring up red and green screens and turn down the "Color" level for both.

Mike,
Did you calibrate your basic contrast,brightness,color and tint with auto iris on or off? thanks!

All of my settings are on Low lamp.

As far as tweaking the CCM is concerned, there's really not much you can do without calibration equipment. Even with the equipment, the results are not what I'd like. You just have to compare the colors to a chart or some other display where you like the results. As you've noted, both red and green are oversaturated, so you might just bring up red and green screens and turn down the "Color" level for both.

ok...sounds good

thanks for the help Mike

Mike, did you get the Lee Filter swatch book? I was wondering if any of those filters might be a good match for the AE900?

Thanks again for your recent post and Happy New Year.

well I just got HD hooked up and I'm watching Hellboy on Starz in 1080i and I must say, the picture is absolutely fantastic. I think contrast and Black Level still need some slight tweaking....so dark areas look almost too dark sometimes....anyways, thanks again for all the help

Mike, did you get the Lee Filter swatch book?

No, they only sent me a catalog. From that, it appears that the CC filters are not in the swatch book. I've haven't had a chance to call them back yet.

Mike,
Did you calibrate your basic contrast,brightness,color and tint with auto iris on or off? thanks!

I've checked it both ways and there is a slight difference. Since I have the auto iris on all the time, I'm using the settings with it on.

Mike, They sent me a swatch book with the catalog. There are over 200 filters in it. It might be interesting to try a few of the samples in front on the lens. I think that even with the small size it would be possible to try a few. I guess they forgot to put the swatch book in your packet.

Thanks very much for the reply Mike.
I am just setting up the AE900 with a Denon 5910 and I am really impressed!
10 bit signal all the way thru with no VB or artifacts at all.Very impressive.
I used your Cinema 1 settings with no filters and Kris Deerings 5910 settings. Everything seems dead on,even checking the color decoder chart on Avia.
I believe there are other players out there like the Panny S-97 that will give you the full 10 bit chain over Hdmi but i do not think the Oppo does since it uses Dvi only. Am I correct?

Im a newb to fp, i just got the 900. Is there a break in time for the bulb? I have about 24 hours on mine and it seems like the color is not as good and when there is a wide shot (far away) in a football game its kind of blurry. I used the settings from the tweak900 thread and used avia when it was new (4hours). I just want to know if this is normal or am i just going blind. Im have D's HD tivo and a 35foot hdmi. Maybe its D and hdlite was very lite lately.

I guess they forgot to put the swatch book in your packet.

Actually the corner of the envelope that the catalog was in was torn, so it might have fallen out at some point. It seems that they're all lighting (not camera) filters though and that there aren't any CC or warming filters in there. Is that the case?

yet another question, if the projector is sent a 1080i signal, will the brightness and contrast change? It seems like blacks become very less detailed (overly black) when the projector is fed a 1080i? Is there any way to calibrate for this?

It seems that there are mostly lighting filters in the book. I remember that someone tried some of them with the AE700 and got good results. I think it was someone from Australia. I also noticed that CLK used a similar filter on one of his pictures on the AE900 review. The swatches are small but I do think that they could be used for tests. On each filter page there is a graph showing what the filter does and the amount of light loss. There is also information on using the filters for photography on the last few pages of the catalog. It would be interesting if you could find the best filter in the batch. The filter sheets are very inexpensive so that even if they did fade it would be easy to replace them. There is also information on the burning point of
each filter type and the AE900 will not cause any heat problem it seems. Hope you can get another book.

What CKL used was a square Cokin filter not a sheet, its a piece of glass just like your hoya filters, just in a square shape, i use the same type of filer (Cokin 81EF), with a Cokin adapter that screws into the prjector. I actually prefer it like that caus, say im watchin football or NBA daytime, and want a brighter picure i just pull the glass out of the slot and then slot it back in, takes half a sec, no screwing about etc, but it does not look as "sleek" as a screw on one. Swings and roundabouts really :)

Just wanted to pass on to the thread that I tried CKL's settings for the Normal picture mode.

WOW!!!!! best color yet. Its a keeper. I did drop the brightness down several notches, probably more of a personal taste.

THANKS CKL for taking the time to calibrate and pass on the data.

I'm considering testing the Dynamic settings but it will require the filters. If it gets me even more contrast, I think it will be money well spent.

I cant tell the list how pleased I am with the AE900. What a great choice for the entry level and perhaps even mid-level home theater enthusiast. The combination of the OPPO 971H, the panamorph 752 on a 2.35 screen has everyone here with a smile that wont quit.

I finally got home tonight after being out of town for the holidays, and was able to try out Mike's latest settings with my brand new 81ef filter. After putting them in and using avia to calibrate contrast and brightness, the image my 900 throws has noticably improved, so I have to give a big thanks to Mike for taking the time to share his findings.

One question I do have is, when using avia to calibrate color and saturation, is there a setting in the service manual that allows you to select only the blue panel, or do you have to look through a blue filter to calibrate those settings properly? I ask because my used copy of avia didn't come with the filters.

Capek, I would not use the blue panel to adjust color saturation. You use color and tint (Hue) in the regular menu.

You can get blue filters from THX at the link below.

http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/dvd.html

DVE also sells extra filters.

http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/dvd.html

Dear all, my player is the denon 3910, output via DVI to HDMI. Since the ae900's processing is 10 bits, shld i set the player to output at HDMI Y Cb Cr since this is 10 bits as well? My understanding is that DVI output is 8 bits. If by setting to HDMI Y Cb Cr gives better PQ, then i'll need to get a HDMI to DVI adapter for my current cable.

Thanks!

wwyjoe, are you using component now. I would recommend using HDMI if you can. I have an Oppo and it works great with the AE900 going from DVI to HDMI. You can get low cost DVI to HDMI cables from Monoprice. I like them better than using an adaptor.

hi rwestley, i'm currently using DVI to HDMI, cable by DVIGear

My apologies if i'm unclear. The 3910 has 2 options for its HDMI output: HDMI RGB, or HDMI Y Cb Cr. I read that HDMI Y Cb Cr is 10 bits, whereas HDMI RGB or DVI output is 8 bits. So i was wondering if it is better to set the 3910 to HDMI Y Cb Cr, since the ae900 is 10 bits processing. If so, then i would need to get a HDMI to DVI adapter for my cable

wwwjoe, I may be wrong, but I don't think you need any adapter. I would not use Y CB Cr. that is for component output. I think that is the adaptor you are refering to. DVI is 8 bits but I think you will still get a better picture using the DVI to HDMI output since it will be pure digital.

rwestley, i've extracted a section of Secrets review of the Denon 5910 :)

"The 5910 also has a video output mode for HDMI called HDMI Y Cb Cr. This allows for the original color space of DVD to be passed without conversion to RGB. This also allows for a full 10-bit video output. The DVI and HDMI RGB mode outputs are limited to 8-bit despite the full 10-bit internal processing. Also, 8-bit video has limitations that tend to result in banding or gradations in colors. A good example of this can be seen with skylines or underwater footage. Since the level of light may have infinite values that constantly change with depth in the water or altitude in the sky, you may notice what looks like bands where there should be a smooth transition. In other words, dark blue will abruptly change to a lighter blue rather than a gradual change. I usually test for this with a gray ramp. With 8-bit processing or an 8-bit output on a digital display, I can usually see a slight amount of banding in a gray ramp. With a 10-bit output there is no banding at all, and the ramp is completely smooth from black to white. Some CRT displays may not show this as much because of the properties of an analog display. Transitions tend to be smoother than with a digital display, so some of that banding disappears. But with the rise of digital displays on the market and the clearly impending demise of analog displays, higher bit processing is becoming a necessity"

The denon 3910 also has this same video output as the 5910. Hence, if i were to set HDMI Y Cb Cr for its HDMI output, i will need to get a HDMI-DVI adapter for my current cable

WWjoe, thaks for the information. I am not sure about this. I would hope that others with more knowledge could give you the correct answer. I would guess that Mike SRC would know. I am sure he will see your post and give you an answer soon. I don't want to give wrong information.

do you know if Denon DVD-1920 has the 10bit processing on YCbCr? I've been running in RGB but I didn't know there was a difference...if anyone can confirm this, I'm going to change it right away!

Thanks joe for this information!

rwestley, i've extracted a section of Secrets review of the Denon 5910 :)

"The 5910 also has a video output mode for HDMI called HDMI Y Cb Cr. This allows for the original color space of DVD to be passed without conversion to RGB. This also allows for a full 10-bit video output. The DVI and HDMI RGB mode outputs are limited to 8-bit despite the full 10-bit internal processing. Also, 8-bit video has limitations that tend to result in banding or gradations in colors. A good example of this can be seen with skylines or underwater footage. Since the level of light may have infinite values that constantly change with depth in the water or altitude in the sky, you may notice what looks like bands where there should be a smooth transition. In other words, dark blue will abruptly change to a lighter blue rather than a gradual change. I usually test for this with a gray ramp. With 8-bit processing or an 8-bit output on a digital display, I can usually see a slight amount of banding in a gray ramp. With a 10-bit output there is no banding at all, and the ramp is completely smooth from black to white. Some CRT displays may not show this as much because of the properties of an analog display. Transitions tend to be smoother than with a digital display, so some of that banding disappears. But with the rise of digital displays on the market and the clearly impending demise of analog displays, higher bit processing is becoming a necessity"

The denon 3910 also has this same video output as the 5910. Hence, if i were to set HDMI Y Cb Cr for its HDMI output, i will need to get a HDMI-DVI adapter for my current cable

lax01, i had a quick look at the 1920 manual, and cldn't find any option to set the HDMI output to Y Cb Cr or RGB.

wwwjoe, I may be wrong, but I don't think you need any adapter. I would not use Y CB Cr. that is for component output. I think that is the adaptor you are refering to. DVI is 8 bits but I think you will still get a better picture using the DVI to HDMI output since it will be pure digital.

Richard,
This is basically a colour space issue. DVD is stored as 8 bit YCbCr. Personally I would use the YCbCr output because of the 10 bit processing which is passed to the 900 for conversion to RGB (which the panels require) but this is within the 900's 10 bit processing. It is still digital.

Where it might be of issue and where I might be wrong in my choice vs yours, is that the 10 bit processing on the DENON might be better than the Panasonic. Only viewing preferences will tell. Ultimately the panels need RGB.

I think the real issue is Rec 709 (HD) vs Rec 601 (SD). The HDMI input on the 900 is likely for Rec. 709 which has a different weighting for the primaries. A 601 to 709 input without conversion is likely to be green shifted.

thanks btw for your PM

ted

The denon 3910 also has this same video output as the 5910. Hence, if i were to set HDMI Y Cb Cr for its HDMI output, i will need to get a HDMI-DVI adapter for my current cable

If you're currently using the DVI output with a DVI-to-HDMI cable, I believe you will have to replace it with an HDMI cable to get the 10-bit Y Cb Cr output of the Denon. Of course, there's been some extensive discussions in the Over $3500 forum about the real world value of 10-bit Y Cb Cr over 8-bit RGB when you're talking about DVDs. ;)

It seems that there are mostly lighting filters in the book. I remember that someone tried some of them with the AE700 and got good results. I think it was someone from Australia.

Aussie Bob

On each filter page there is a graph showing what the filter does and the amount of light loss. There is also information on using the filters for photography on the last few pages of the catalog. It would be interesting if you could find the best filter in the batch.

T'would be ideal to measure the PJ and create a graph like the filter's transmission graph. The ideal filter would be the one that is the inversion of the PJ's. I wish there was a mode on PJ's that was not calibrated i.e. a "RAW" mode wherein all the controls are in their centre position and gamma is selectable, basically passing through the light. Measure that, find filter, calibrate.

ted

I'm using Normal mode with no filter on low lamp so was interested in testing out your settings below. I have only adjusted the basic brightness/contrast/color settings with DVE. If I make the changes below is there a way to verify that they are better than what I have using DVE? Or do I need some special calibration SW to use these?

jcg

Was remounting the 900 on a shelf this weekend, so I didn't get a chance to play much with the CC40R filter yet. Early results are that while it does give a better color balance and less orangey reds, it seems to reduce output a little more than the 81EF. They're both supposed to be the same in that regard, so I'm going to have to play with it some more.

For those with no filter, here are some calibrated settings for the Normal mode to try:

Low Lamp, Color Temp = -4

Gamma -
High= 0
Mid= 1
Low= 3

Contrast -
Red= 0
Green= -8
Blue= -8

Bright -
Red= 0
Green= 2
Blue= -1

T'would be ideal to measure the PJ and create a graph like the filter's transmission graph. The ideal filter would be the one that is the inversion of the PJ's. I wish there was a mode on PJ's that was not calibrated i.e. a "RAW" mode wherein all the controls are in their centre position and gamma is selectable, basically passing through the light. Measure that, find filter, calibrate.

ted

That would be helpful. I imagine that Normal (or possibly Dynamic) is probably the closest to that ideal, so they would be the ones to graph. I'm wary about some of these filters altering the colors in unwanted ways. Even the 81EF filter gives a bit of an orange cast to reds. I still have to check the Normal setting with the CC40R filter, but I'm waiting for a new HDMI cable to arrive tomorrow before I can get the projector remounted, so I'm projector-less for now. :(

I'm using Normal mode with no filter on low lamp so was interested in testing out your settings below. I have only adjusted the basic brightness/contrast/color settings with DVE. If I make the changes below is there a way to verify that they are better than what I have using DVE? Or do I need some special calibration SW to use these?

jcg

The settings are analyzed with calibration equipment to achieve proper greyscale and gamma. Projectors can vary in performance so these may require some tweaking with your projector. Hopefully, they will improve your picture as they are. Your DVE settings are separate from that and should be checked after you apply my settings as you will likely have to adjust them.

Quote:
The denon 3910 also has this same video output as the 5910. Hence, if i were to set HDMI Y Cb Cr for its HDMI output, i will need to get a HDMI-DVI adapter for my current cable

WWYJOE:Once you use a hdmi to dvi adapter the signal is limited to 8 bits.You need to use a hdmi to hdmi cable straight from the 3910 to the AE900 using Y CB CR not RGB.All RGB is 8 bit.

noted steviec. tks!

Quote:

WWYJOE:Once you use a hdmi to dvi adapter the signal is limited to 8 bits.You need to use a hdmi to hdmi cable straight from the 3910 to the AE900 using Y CB CR not RGB.All RGB is 8 bit.

As MikeSRC pointed out earlier, this is moot as to whether there is any real benefit with source which really is 8 bit. The 10 bit does provide more headroom for processing but then the question of whether the PJ's processing or the Denon's is better. Ultimately the panels are fed RGB anyway. So its a question of which processing you prefer.

Another question might be whether the DVD output is HD or SD colourspace as I beleive the Panasonic expects HD on its HDMI input and does not convert SD to HD colour.

ted

so I'm projector-less for now. :(

My sympathies for being sans PJ - I'd have to do the dishes and stuff. ;)

That would be helpful. I imagine that Normal (or possibly Dynamic) is probably the closest to that ideal, so they would be the ones to graph. I'm wary about some of these filters altering the colors in unwanted ways. Even the 81EF filter gives a bit of an orange cast to reds. I still have to check the Normal setting with the CC40R filter, but I'm waiting for a new HDMI cable to arrive tomorrow before I can get the projector remounted....

I've not seen graphs for these modes but wouldn't a "pass through" mode be the same Colour temp as the bulb i.e. Green-Blue?

And there you go again with the Dynamic.
Have you ever been able to check whether it is linear Gamma? On my 700 my eyes say :eek: . Have you been able to wrestle it under your control?

ted

My sympathies for being sans PJ - I'd have to do the dishes and stuff. ;)

Dropping a few gets me out of that. :D



And there you go again with the Dynamic.
Have you ever been able to check whether it is linear Gamma? On my 700 my eyes say :eek: . Have you been able to wrestle it under your control?

ted

It's come out fairly well with the 81EF filter. Attached is a graph from OpticOne:

lax01, i had a quick look at the 1920 manual, and cldn't find any option to set the HDMI output to Y Cb Cr or RGB.


Its on page 25

Here's the page:
http://lax.war3.com/hdmirgbycbcr.jpg

But in the features list it says this:

10-bit, 27MHz Analog Devices Video DAC (480i) –
10-bit, 54MHz Video DAC (480p) –
10-bit, xxMHz Video DAC (480i/480p) –
(the '-' being that these features are not available on the 1920)

Should I choose YCbCr or RGB? or will it really not matter?

i think you shld choose HDMI Y Cb Cr.

Whether it makes any difference, well, as pointed out, its debatable. But since both the denon and projector support 10 bit processing, why not use it?

Choosing Hdmi Y Cb Cr outputs the true 10 bit color signal the dvd was authored with and avoids a Y Cb Cr to RGB conversion.

DVDs are 8 bit. This is not the place for a discussion of the relative merits of 8-bit vs. 10 (or 12) bit processing. If you want to read a more detailed description of all this, check out Michael Grant's comments on this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=575372) or this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=530578).

So I've been tweaking/calibrating with Avia and DVE and they both suggest a brightness level of -19 (doesn't matter what it is)...however, when I look at the Gray Cross Step Scale, the two darkness bars blend together and the white also isn't distinct. So with the Gray cross-step scale, I made it so you could see all the steps...so my brightness is no-where near the value its "supposed" to be at. Is this okay? Do I have any other options?

Also, I still notice in dark scenes that blacks aren't detailed and sometimes blend together which make it hard to see in dark scenes. This is especially when I watch HDTV channels...is there anything I can do?

I know this is a little off topic but does anyone know of a way to put an adapter on this unit so ALL the air is exhausted out the side instead of the front. I have about 2" in front of the exhaust port to put some sort of duct or deflector to make the air flow out the side. Do you think this will hinder the cooling at all? Is there a way to check the running temp of the unit? Seems to me I saw something about the temp being displayed somewhere but I cant find it.

thanks

Paul

Where did you get CLK's settings for normal mode (with no filters)? Page 1 of this thread only has CLK's settings for Cinema1 mode.

jcg

Just wanted to pass on to the thread that I tried CKL's settings for the Normal picture mode.

WOW!!!!! best color yet. Its a keeper. I did drop the brightness down several notches, probably more of a personal taste.

THANKS CKL for taking the time to calibrate and pass on the data.

I'm considering testing the Dynamic settings but it will require the filters. If it gets me even more contrast, I think it will be money well spent.

I cant tell the list how pleased I am with the AE900. What a great choice for the entry level and perhaps even mid-level home theater enthusiast. The combination of the OPPO 971H, the panamorph 752 on a 2.35 screen has everyone here with a smile that wont quit.

CKL's settings for Normal mode are in his review linked on the first page.

See link below

http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/200510/ae900-ckl/index.htm

Has anyone anywhere done a grayscale/gamma adjustment of the component inputs yet? I've not kept a close watch recently and may have missed it (I did look through the threads and did not find one readily)
:) :)

DVDs are 8 bit. This is not the place for a discussion of the relative merits of 8-bit vs. 10 (or 12) bit processing. If you want to read a more detailed description of all this, check out Michael Grant's comments on this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=575372) or this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=530578).

no, it's not a discussion about 8 vs. 10 bit processing but how it relates to the Ae900 projector and how to get the best from it.
Everyone should know that the 900 is one of the few out there besides the sony hs51 that will accept a 10 bit signal.

Just got my AE900 from an AVS sponsor and am checking it out. No obvious VB or dead/stuck pixels, and convergence looks within 1/2 pixel over most of screen. But, I don't have an 81EF filter yet, and my DVE disk is on order, so I'm adjusting Cinema 1 based on MikeSRC's and CKL's recommendations for Cinema 1 with no filter. I am projecting onto an old curved 78" 4:3 Kloss screen for the moment. Very Bright!! Had to add an ND2 filter that I could get today to keep from blinding myself in bright scenes.

Two interesting things have popped up I'm looking for help on:

1. I can't lower sharpness below -2, but everyone says they are setting it to the minimum at -4. Anyone know of a SW version change that is limiting my sharpness range, or something I'm not doing right? I can't find a menu item listing the projector SW version.

2. I'm using the THX optimizer on the Incredibles to grossly adjust white and black points until DVE gets here, and while I can set the black point using Brightness OK, I can't get the 4 shades of white to separate using the Contrast adjustment. Went all the way to minimum (-27) on Contrast, and it got gray all over the white targets, but no obvious demarcation between the boxes. Going positive on Contrast, I can get it to be glaringly bright even with the ND2 filter in place. Any suggestions?

Thanks, and so far the 900 looks great.

Bugaboos, Could you provide a little more information about the following.

1. What DVD player are you using. How is it hooked up and does it have a brightness and
contrast control?

2. Have you tried other sources?

3. I assume you are using low lamp mode, is this correct?

I'm using an Apex 2600 Progressive scan DVD (480p) via component in Low lamp Cinema 1 mode, and it does have a brightness and contrast control. I haven't tried tweaking those yet. Only other source I have at the moment is 480i so I didn't want to adjust using that. I tried LOTR ROTK, and the Moria scene at the beginning looked great.

That could be the problem. I would reduce the brightness on the Apex or try another player if you can. I think you would see a big difference using the Oppo or Panasonic 97S using HDMI.

It was the DVD player. It had the Contrast boosted as well as the Brightness. Brought those down to 0 and now I can see the shades of white that were crushed. Now if I could just get some decent calibration for watching SD TV it would be perfect. Deinterlacer does a nice job, but not much "punch" in the picture and a bit warm. It will never look as good as DVD or HD, but until cable comes out with a better box than the current Moxi, I'll stick with my TIVO. I know DTV is much better and has TIVO, but I'm not switching until they get ther TIVO replacement boxes working a lot better then they currently do. By then maybe Verizon will have their FIOs video up and running in my neighborhood.

I've finally calibrated my pj via AVIA.
I was surprised when my contrast and brightness settings were so high, when doing the needle pulses. I have a completely dark room and projecting on a 1.0 grain 114" (wide screen) The settings were ...
+13 Contrast
+12 Brightness
The reason I found those numbers high are my Panasonic AE500 the settings were very much lower. Plus I have seen a few of the reviewers numbers, that were also lower. I am using Cinema1 mode.
Can some of you share your AVIA settings if your using the same Cinema1 mode

P.S. The picture looks very good with these numbers, they just seemed off.
Thanks

Thanks all!

This will help tons when my 900 arrives :)

Hello all. Unable to get any picture thru the hdmi input. No picture with my samsung dvd player or scientific atlanta 8300hd. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Zgraen,

1. Check cables. (Use a shorter cable or the cable that came with the Samsung for a test.)
2. Check settings in setup menu for Samsung player
3. Make sure you have set projector for HDMI input in setup or on remote.

Thaxx, You don't state what mode you are using. If you are using normal mode your settings are not that far off from CKL's posted in his review. (See page 1 of thread)

Thaxx, You don't state what mode you are using. If you are using normal mode your settings are not that far off from CKL's posted in his review. (See page 1 of thread)

I'm using the Cinema1 mode.

Hello all. Unable to get any picture thru the hdmi input. No picture with my samsung dvd player or scientific atlanta 8300hd. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


simple question, are the DVD player and STB setup to send out over the HDMI?

Thaxx, CKL has been used Contrast +2 Brightness +18. Different projectors may require different settings.

Thaxx, CKL has been used Contrast +2 Brightness +18. Different projectors may require different settings.


wasn't that with a filter?

Thank you all for your responses. The samsung is setup to output thru its dvi port@720p. I have a dvi to hdmi adaptor for the dvd player. With this setup, I get no picture at all. The same goes for the SA8300. All cables are snug in place. I am using a 25' hdmi cable. I have the hdmi hot plug setting set to on in the 900 service menu. When I hook everything up thru a 25'ft component cable, everything is fine. I am at wits end with this issue and hope I can get it resolved. Thanks to everyone again for their help. I have the new theater almost finished and will send pictures as soon as it is completed hopefully by this weekend.

Zgraen, if you have a short 6'cable try it if you can with the DVD player. Hit HDMI on the
Panasonic remote after you do this. It could be a cable or adaptor problem.

CKL's settings are posted in his review on page one of the thread. He only used the filters with the Dynamic settings. His Cinema one post was without a filter.

I have the hdmi hot plug setting set to on in the 900 service menu.

Did you change it to that or was that the default? You shouldn't change that setting in the service menu, regardless of what it was. If it's at the default, I would try toggling the HDMI button on the remote a few times after you've connected your source.

A 6 foot dvi cable is working fine, so that pos hdmi cable I have must be the problem. The cable is made by audio showcase so future buyers beware. Thanks to all for help with this issue.

Try a Monoprice 25' cable. They work great and the prices are low. Their site is down today for some reason so you can't see the cables now. Try later if you are interested.

I've finally calibrated my pj via AVIA.
I was surprised when my contrast and brightness settings were so high, when doing the needle pulses. I have a completely dark room and projecting on a 1.0 grain 114" (wide screen) The settings were ...
+13 Contrast
+12 Brightness
The reason I found those numbers high are my Panasonic AE500 the settings were very much lower. Plus I have seen a few of the reviewers numbers, that were also lower. I am using Cinema1 mode.
Can some of you share your AVIA settings if your using the same Cinema1 mode

P.S. The picture looks very good with these numbers, they just seemed off.
Thanks

Wow! Those settings do seem very high for C1, low lamp mode. I'm using a 1.1 gain screen, but mine is only 78" wide. All 4 900's I've had in my system have been within +/- 2 on contrast. They have all been the same for brightness. I'm at +4 on contrast, and -2 on brightness. I'm using DVE for calibration. Would your larger screen make that much of a difference??

Hi, i have the FL-D filter on my Panny 900, but i don't found settings for this filter.
Someone can help me to found some good setting for this filter? :)

Thank you.
Carlo

Mike mate you still got no news for us with the CC40R filter??? :)

Mike mate you still got no news for us with the CC40R filter??? :)

Been running around getting things set so I can head for CES tomorrow. I haven't had a chance to calibrate the CC40R with the Normal setting (which I think may be the best), but it looks good with Dynamic. It'll probably have to wait until after CES. :(

Mike, how do you like the cc40r in comparison to the 81ef. I think I might give it a try.

I am heading to the CES on Thursday so it will have to wait.

Mike, how do you like the cc40r in comparison to the 81ef. I think I might give it a try.

I like the color balance better but it does seem to reduce light output a little more than the 81EF (even though they both only require 2/3 F-stop adjustment in camera use).


I am heading to the CES on Thursday so it will have to wait.

See you at the AVS party? ;)

I just ordered the cc40r filter 67mm. It will be fun to try.

I will be at the party. Love to meet you.

67? or 77? CKL was using a 77mm lens

Is the 77mm CC40R the best lens to get? I'm kind of itching to try a lens but really don't want to spend $150...should I try the 77mm 81c (here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=HO81C77&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=22449) )? That seems a lot more resonable...but I'm guessing that one won't screw in...whats a good value lens? :) (I'm all about value)

lax01, you might want to wait until Mike gets back from the CES show and posts his results for the cc40r filter. The cost is about $42 from Harrison & Harrison for a 67mm filter and you will need a $6 stepdown ring from the 77mm thread on the AE900. You could also go with the 81EF using the settings on page one. If I were you I would wait a week until Mike gets time to do more tests with the cc40r filter in the normal mode.

lax01, if you dont mind loosing some brightness, then go for the 81EF, its def better then 81C and is only a very little dimmer. I use an 81EF and the improvment in black is really worth the small amount you would pay for a filter.

My advice, whatever you do, make sure you mess about with your own settings, i mean you can calibrate the brightness and all the basics according to calibration disks, but when it comes to advanced settigs just adjust according to what you think looks best, after all thats what counts. Right now my PJ def isnt as close to D65 as it could be but i much prefer the image that i have and so do most ppl who see it. This is obviously just my opinion and not to be taken as a rule. :)

To sum up, id go for a Hoya or B+W 77mm or 67mm 81EF filter. I myself use a Cokin but thats beacuae i prefer to be able to remove the filter easily (to watch soccer) as opposed to unscrewing each time which ruins be focus, with me it just slides off. Again this is just a preference.

hope that helped a little
n0s

lax01, you might want to wait until Mike gets back from the CES show and posts his results for the cc40r filter. The cost is about $42 from Harrison & Harrison for a 67mm filter and you will need a $6 stepdown ring from the 77mm thread on the AE900. You could also go with the 81EF using the settings on page one. If I were you I would wait a week until Mike gets time to do more tests with the cc40r filter in the normal mode.

Cool thanks...I'm in no rush really...just have an itch



lax01, if you dont mind loosing some brightness, then go for the 81EF, its def better then 81C and is only a very little dimmer. I use an 81EF and the improvment in black is really worth the small amount you would pay for a filter.

My advice, whatever you do, make sure you mess about with your own settings, i mean you can calibrate the brightness and all the basics according to calibration disks, but when it comes to advanced settigs just adjust according to what you think looks best, after all thats what counts. Right now my PJ def isnt as close to D65 as it could be but i much prefer the image that i have and so do most ppl who see it. This is obviously just my opinion and not to be taken as a rule. :)

To sum up, id go for a Hoya or B+W 77mm or 67mm 81EF filter. I myself use a Cokin but thats beacuae i prefer to be able to remove the filter easily (to watch soccer) as opposed to unscrewing each time which ruins be focus, with me it just slides off. Again this is just a preference.

hope that helped a little
n0s

Thanks for hte info...I'll keep it in mind when I goto buy....

On this subject of tweaking some of the settings, I was curious as to CKL's settings without a filter. I have done the basics with DVE, but should I use my basic adjustments and add CKL's to mine? (I haven't gone into the advanced menu with the DVE calibration that I did)

Or.........should I use the out of the box settings and then apply CKL's settings? I should add that I have no filters.

Also, could someone give me a rundown on the next set of tweaks to do after my initial DVE settings. I.E.......

1. Do/try this then
2. Do/try this then
3. Now that you've done that, do/try this

Suggestions could be with or without filters and I don't have any testing equipment aside from DVE and the color filters.

Thanks for the input

Rob

Before you tweak you should always write down your settings. I would try to set up your player using AVIA or DVE and than try CKL's settings on the advanced menu. There are many things to consider including the screen and room you have your HT in. I like to start with my own basic calibrations and than apply the tweaks. I also sometimes recalibrate the basic settings after I apply the tweaks to check.

1. Calibrate with DVE or AVIA
2. Apply the tweak settings (Be sure to write down original settings)
3. Calibrate again with DVE or AVIA

If you have fun trying to get the best picture possible you might want to try a filter or try different tweaks until you get the picture you like best.

Heading to CES tomorrow

Thanks rwestley,

I will go back to the first page and get those tweaks and try them along with my DVE settings.

I guess I'm trying to get a little more contrast and shadow detail preferably without adding a filter, but time will tell on that one.

After a few tweaks, it seems that my personal taste( just DVE calibrating trying to be objective as possible) leans me toward a "more bluish" looking picture, but using cinema 1, the 6500K mark seems a little easier on the eyes.

I'm sure I will have a ton more questions in time.

Thanks again,
Rob

does anyone know if any place will rent some of the calibration equipment? (Avia Pro, Spyder and such)...Just be wondering how close my settings were and what I could do to make it exact...

Highside, I think a filter is worth the investment. Wait unitl Mike posts his settings next week for the CC40R filter. It may be the best one to try. Off the the CES show.

I have a Smart II calibration system. When I purchased it, I was using a Sony. Now I cannot get through to them to get the update for another PJ. I am purchasing the 900 tomorrow and want to be able to calibrate it with the Smart system and the 81EF filter. I trust everyone's numbers posted on here will be close but I am a perfectionist and would like to get my unit as "dead on" as possible. How can I calculate or interpolate the differences between the Smart III Sony readings and what should be there for the Panny? Can I just calibrate normally as I did my Sony's and expect good results? Anyone using this system? Any insight appreciated. Thanks.


BTW, I am willing to share the readings I get for everyone on here. I could also probably be talked into "renting" the system to anyone that would like it. Thanks for the help.

Looking for some help tweaking the color on my 900.

Colors in most scenes look just great to my untrained eye. Little or no red push, no white crush, no flourescent yellows, nice flesh tones, etc. However, in darker scenes (or in the case of a DVD like Cinderella Man, pretty much the whole movie), the blacks seem green to me (even my wife notices it). Blacks seem to look right in lighter scenes with other colors (say a black sportcoat on a news anchor), but when it's a shadowy shot, definitely a green tint. I've tried messing with the advanced menu brightness/contrast for green a bit while looking at problematic scenes, which helps somewhat.

Can someone give me an idea of how to calibrate this more rigorously than just eyeballing problematic scenes, short of special hardware or a professional? Is there a particular Avia test pattern that would help? Since I only see this green tint in dark scenes, should I just focus on the green brightness control in the Advanced menu, rather than the green contrast control? [Presumably the former adjusts green level on the black side where the problem is; the latter on the white side where it seems OK?]

For reference I have a 92" Da-Lite HCCV screen, about a 12' throw, using no horizontal lens shift, some vertical (lens is below top of the screen by a few inches), low lamp mode, and have done the basic Avia calibration for Cinema1 and Natural (the two that looked best to my eye). Sources are an Oppo DVD over HDMI at 720p, and an HDTivo over component at 720p. (Calibration of the HDTivo was done with the HDNet test pattern, as best I could not being entirely sure how to use the color bars and grey ramp patterns - I basically adjusted brightness until I could just barely make out the zero, and contrast until I could just barely make out the "10", and tweaked color/tint with the Avia blue filter).

Thanks,
Sean

This is the green bias that the professional reviews pointed out.

Depending on which picture mode you are using, there are several baseline calibration references on page one of this thread. As you'll see, the settings all reduce green contrast.

This is the green bias that the professional reviews pointed out.

Depending on which picture mode you are using, there are several baseline calibration references on page one of this thread. As you'll see, the settings all reduce green contrast.

Hey Bubbawilly-

Yeah, I noticed that they all seemed to drop green contrast down a fair bit. I'm wondering though - since I tend to see the green tint more in dark scenes rather than light ones, should I be reducing green brightness instead? Also, without the special calibration equipment (all I have is Avia), any tips to help me decide how far to go (other than just eyeballing it)?

Thanks,
Sean

I thought like you that the color brightness setting would control green in low picture levels, so I tried several different settings. No luck. I then tried the non-filtered advanced settings for Cinema1 (either CKL's or Mike's, I don't remember now which), and checked again with DVE. Prior to using the advanced contrast settings, I just couldn't get the color dialed in with DVE through the basic picture menu. After plugging in their settings, the color and hue (according to DVE) was spot-on by reducing the color to -1 in the basic menu.

I don't know why it worked, but it did in my case, so I figured I wouldn't sweat it.

Maybe Mike or CKL can chime-in and explain the how and why.

I thought like you that the color brightness setting would control green in low picture levels, so I tried several different settings. No luck. I then tried the non-filtered advanced settings for Cinema1 (either CKL's or Mike's, I don't remember now which), and checked again with DVE. Prior to using the advanced contrast settings, I just couldn't get the color dialed in with DVE through the basic picture menu. After plugging in their settings, the color and hue (according to DVE) was spot-on by reducing the color to -1 in the basic menu.

I don't know why it worked, but it did in my case, so I figured I wouldn't sweat it.

Maybe Mike or CKL can chime-in and explain the how and why.

Interesting, OK, I might give that a try. Thing is, in my case, I have no trouble getting the Avia flashing color pattern spot on with just the basic color/tint adjustments. Even the color decoder check looks right. But I still get that green tint.

-Sean

67? or 77? CKL was using a 77mm lens

Is the 77mm CC40R the best lens to get? I'm kind of itching to try a lens but really don't want to spend $150...should I try the 77mm 81c ? That seems a lot more resonable...but I'm guessing that one won't screw in...whats a good value lens? :) (I'm all about value)

Hello (my first post, excuse my english)

Maybe, if you want to try different settings and filter before spend too much with one you're not sure, you could do as I've done :
Buy simples square filters (ex : Cokin, for approx. 15 € i.e. 15 $ I guess), put them in front of your lens ... this way you could try different ones for a reasonnable cost before chosing the one you'll go with.

(as it is my first post -forum rules against spaming- I can't put my images or give you a direct url link to the french forum "homecinema-fr" >> I'll cheat with the number of my posts, and be back soon after my 5th post to show you)

After tryings, my choice is 81EF.


>>> The lens to get is the 77mm<<<

Sorry :n°2

n°3 :o

4 ???? :o :o

5 !!!! :o :o :o

plizzzzzz .... forgive
This time I think I can post. :)

The shortcut to the french forum
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=169353555#169353555

and the result I was talking with the Cokin A serie (cheap cheap cheap >> and no problem with the warmth)

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8418/cokin17gt.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cokin17gt.jpg)http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9929/cokin28ce.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cokin28ce.jpg)

It works perfectly :)

wha .... ooooo !

I have been posting on AVS !
As I can do I send you this "résumé" that I've done, based on yours (AVS) and some french settings, for our french forum. Quite useful to print it.

First part without filter, and second and "salmon" part .... with :)
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/4785/tweaks90026qk.th.gif (http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tweaks90026qk.gif)

hi-

i received my ae900 several days ago and hooked it up with much anticipation. i first used the dynamic mode with an 81c filter and ckl's settings. the movie i watched was Whale Rider. i must say i was pretty disappointed by how grainy the picture looked overall and especially in parts of the picture like the sky.

wondering if this was due to the movie itself, i also tried Batman Begins and noticed the same issue of graininess.

and then, wondering if this was due to the filter and dynamic mode setting, i tried removing the filter and using cinema1 mode. no real improvement there either.

am wondering if (1) this is just something that's endemic to this projector or (2) if i need to change some setting or (3) if i might have a dud projector. any thoughts?

also, what's the best way to check to make sure the projector is not a dud? all i have at my disposal is the avia dvd and my eyes. :)

thanks,
tu

Posted this in the main thread as well.

A little late to the game here but I am trying out a AE900. Similar to what Jason is doing, I will be calibrating it today using Colorfacts and the 81EF filter. I will post some readings as soon as I can get them. First impressions though. A little background on my previous PJs. Mosy recently I had a JVC HX-1 that was calibrated by William Phelps. It was an outstanding machine but lacked in contrast. My move was from a Sony HS-51 which I really tweaked and like alot but the SDE just killed me. The Panny uncalibrated really wowed me. I was expecting much less than I got here. I was prepared to be disappointed but I wasn't. The image is fantastic and LCD has come a long way even from last year. Colors are good right out of the box. The blacks are very good comparing it to my JVC. I did notice a good bit more video noise on dark scenes but this seemed to be dependant on the DVD or show I was watching. I was suprised because I did not see any of these artifacts in good DVD transfers, such as CoR or Superbit Underworld but I saw them on others. I also saw them on some HD shows like Surface but not on CSI. The best way to describe it was graininess or moire in dark areas of the pic. One thing I did not notice was VBE. I tried a 700 last year and quickly sold it due to this problem and I could not recommend it to my customers. I tested this unit on all my VBE torture test and cannot find a hint of it. I am very encouraged by this. Overall I can echo most of what everyone is saying about this unit. It is a great PJ for the money. I could easily live with it for a long while although I will be selling it after a short demo here. I just want to try it out as I need to be able to have a reference so I can confidently sell it to my customers. As soon as I can get it calibrated I will post my findings.

Welcome lob! Thank you for the link.

I very much enjoyed the time I used to spend in your country. I loved Strasbourg and Lyon. We used to hike across the border and camp in old castle ruins, and in old Maginot Line bunkers. My favorite place was a little town just across the German border where we used to go to eat pizza (wasn't available in Germany at the time). My favorite pizza was called the "Sophia Loren." It was topped with two eggs, sunny side up. :)

Has the countryside near the southwestern border of Germany changed considerably in the last 20 years?

What was the topic again? :rolleyes: Oh yeah, projector tweaks... :D

Hello (my first post, excuse my english)

Maybe, if you want to try different settings and filter before spend too much with one you're not sure, you could do as I've done :
Buy simples square filters (ex : Cokin, for approx. 15 € i.e. 15 $ I guess), put them in front of your lens ... this way you could try different ones for a reasonnable cost before chosing the one you'll go with.

(as it is my first post -forum rules against spaming- I can't put my images or give you a direct url link to the french forum "homecinema-fr" >> I'll cheat with the number of my posts, and be back soon after my 5th post to show you)

After tryings, my choice is 81EF.


>>> The lens to get is the 77mm<<<

Hello. I live in europe too, Norway. Do you have a link or info where i can buy the simple square lenses in europe online?

hi-

i received my ae900 several days ago and hooked it up with much anticipation. i first used the dynamic mode with an 81c filter and ckl's settings. the movie i watched was Whale Rider. i must say i was pretty disappointed by how grainy the picture looked overall and especially in parts of the picture like the sky.

wondering if this was due to the movie itself, i also tried Batman Begins and noticed the same issue of graininess.

and then, wondering if this was due to the filter and dynamic mode setting, i tried removing the filter and using cinema1 mode. no real improvement there either.

am wondering if (1) this is just something that's endemic to this projector or (2) if i need to change some setting or (3) if i might have a dud projector. any thoughts?

also, what's the best way to check to make sure the projector is not a dud? all i have at my disposal is the avia dvd and my eyes. :)

thanks,
tu

I also just received my 900 this week and have about 12 hours on it. I'm not using any filters yet and I have calibrated it with DVE. My DVD player is just a basic one with progressive scan. I've viewed movies in both 480i and 480p.

I'm seeing the same thing you are- a grainy picture with 'Batman Begins' and also with 'Phantom of The Opera' and 'Employee of The Month'. On all of these movies the picture really looks great on any close-up scences but as soon as the picture moves to mid-ground and background images the quality of the picture really drops off. My reference has been my 42" Samsung EDTV for the past few years and the picture on this has always looked very good to great (480p only).
I tried all the different picture modes and different cables and also another DVD player. I was so pumped-up about getting the 900 and so far I'm disappointed.

I do admit my DVD players are economy models that are a few years old and my screen is a matte white econo-job. I am a strong believer that in Hi-End Audio and Video that it starts with the source (garbage in garbage out). I'm looking to upgrade to the Panny S97, Denon 2910 or Marantz 7600 next. I do plan to upgrade my screen to a Da-Lite Insta-Theater.

Anybody seeing the grainy distortion with a high quality DVD player and screen? I'm going to watch 'Galdiator' after the football game tonight. This is supposed to be an reference quality DVD and I'll report on my findings.

You should also consider the Oppo 971 when you go to buy your next dvd player. All of the reviews for the Panny 900 and Sanyo Z4 said they don't have the best internal scalers, with the Z4 supposedly being significantly worse, so an unconverting dvd player will definitely help. While I haven't watched either of those dvds, my Oppo and 900 combine to throw a great picture for the 2 dozen or so dvds I've watched so far, with few being of reference quality. It's allowed me to hold off updating my dvd collection with all the superbit dvds out there.

On the 3 projectors I have watched extensively (none of them a 900) this graininess shows up to a greater or lesser extent on all DVD movies. I think it's a limitation of the DVD format rather than the projector or the player because it's far less apparent with HD sources. I don't think it's the DVD player itself. I haven't watched movies on a cheap player, but my 5 year old player that I replaced last summer was no more grainy than the Panasonic 97S I bought in July 05. The 97S has other advantages over my old player, but better resolution of distant objects is not one of them.

On the 3 projectors I have watched extensively (none of them a 900) this graininess shows up to a greater or lesser extent on all DVD movies. I think it's a limitation of the DVD format rather than the projector or the player because it's far less apparent with HD sources. I don't think it's the DVD player itself. I haven't watched movies on a cheap player, but my 5 year old player that I replaced last summer was no more grainy than the Panasonic 97S I bought in July 05. The 97S has other advantages over my old player, but better resolution of distant objects is not one of them.

I think I'm with you on this. 'Gladiator' looked excellent with very little grain- the studio did a great transfer with this movie. This is the fourth movie I watched so far and it blows away the other 3 titles I've watched (see my thread above on the 3 other movies) - great color saturation. depth and detail. I was completely drawn into the movie. A real emotional high. Looks like subpar transfers will really show up on this PJ.

So far I'm not seeing any vertical banding. Next I'm going to look into the advanced menu and try Mike's settings for Gamma etc.