Denon 3806 Owners Thread [Text View] - Page 2

audyssey

11-08-05, 03:50 PM

@audyssey

Another Question:

Do you think my Audyssey Reference-Curve is "normal" ?

I wonder why my high frequences are cut ?!

My Speakers (Front / Center)

http://www.elac.de/en/products/two100/two100.html

Hi Alex,

The OSD pictures of the Audyssey filter (note this is not the target curve, but the filter that was calculated for your speaker/room combination) are a very crude tool and don't show the filter very well. In fact, many people who see this believe that Audyssey is just another parametric filter. It is not. Our filters are 512 tap FIR filters that operate over the entire frequency range and well below the 63 Hz band shown in the graphs. These graphs are an unfortunate compromise because of the serious limitations in OSD graphics capabilities.

Having said that, I don't know what your speakers are doing to be able to answer your question. It appears that there is a big peak at around 6-8 kHz that is being taken down by MultEQ. Interestingly, there is no correction needed at 16 kHz. The peak in the response could be due to the highly directional characteristics of the JET tweeter and/or crossover issues to that tweeter. You may want to try varying the vertical positioning of the mic during calibration to see what effect that has.

Best regards,
Chris

audyssey

11-08-05, 03:53 PM

Chris, perhaps I'm confused, but I've got a second set of Front l-r analog cables going out from my Denon DVD 2900 into the AVR 3806's CD analog inputs. (This is in addition to the 5.1 analog multichannel I'm running into the EXT. inputs on the receiver for DVD-Audio and SACD.) Anyway, fwiw, by selecting the CD analog inputs when playing the stereo layers of DVD-Audio and SACD recordings, I'm able to take advantage of the MultEQ XT -- or am I?
Also, while I've got your attention, when MultEQ XT is turned off, does the receiver still retain and use other settings such as speaker distance and levels that were obtained during the Auto Set-up process?

Hi,
My previous message re: DSP was referring to the multichannel analog input and not the stereo. The easy way to tell is: if you are able to chose "Audyssey" in the EQ menu then it is available. "Manual" is a simple parametric EQ that has nothing to do with Audyssey MultEQ.
Regarding your other question, the distance and trims are used even when the EQ is turned off.

Best regards,
Chris

alex1971

11-08-05, 03:57 PM

Hmmm...
The Microphone was on "ear" Position (the Jet III also....).
The Audyssey-Curve sounds "dully" "mustily", i don't know the right english word.
In german "dumpf". I like the Jett III Sound of my ELACs..

Do you think i have to set doen the mircophone ?

i repeated the AutoEQ three times with the same result. But on "Ear" Position...

Also my Rear HECOs are cut at 8k.....

What do you mean with "varying the vertical positioning of the mic during calibration" ?
In ONE (6 Position) session or try more sessions ???

audyssey

11-08-05, 04:01 PM

Hmmm...
The Microphone was on "ear" Position.
The Audyssey-Curve sounds "dully" "mustily", i don't know the right english word.
In german "dumpf". I like the Jett III Sound of my ELACs..

Do you think i have to set doen the mircophone ?

i repeated the AutoEQ three times with the same result. But on "Ear" Position...

Also my Rear HECOs are cut at 8k.....

Hi Alex,

Ear position is definitely what you should be doing. I was suggesting making a few of the measurements at 10 cm above and 10 cm below (approximately) so that you cover a better range of vertical positions.

Also, keep in mind that the Audyssey target is for movies since we know the target that was used for mixing. For music there are no such standards so a lot of music program material sounds best at the "Flat" setting. Keep in mind that "Flat" also takes advantage of the Audyssey equalization filters, it just sets the desired target curve to flat. You may want to try that!

Best regards,
Chris

alex1971

11-08-05, 04:07 PM

"Flat" is nearly the same as "Audyssey"...on what you can SEE at TV....
Maybe the other 503 Curves are different... ;-)

For Musik i like "FRONT" because it sounds like my ELACs... i know..they ARE the Reference one at "FRONT"... ;-)

alex1971

11-08-05, 04:17 PM

Another Question.

AVR-3806 Volume Maximum is +18db.
My Fronts are at +2bd
..so MY Maximum Volume is +16db

With MultiEQ "ON" the Maximum is ONLY +1db !!
"Flat" "Audyssey" and "FRONT" all the same only +1db

If i turn OFF the Subwoofer (DENON: .. -11db..-11,5db..-12db..OFF)
than i can use Maximum Volume 16db...
But why only if SUB is OFF when MultiEQ activated ??

I am a litttle bit dissappointed, that i can not hear Musik VERY load if MultiEQ is "ON".
Believe me 1db is NOT very loud....

The very bad thing: if i hear a HDCD and the HDCD Decoder is "ON" the Maximum Volume is ONLY -5db !
Yes only the HDCD-Decoder decrease my Maximum from +1db to -5db! (with MultiEQ on)

Tom Grooms

11-08-05, 11:39 PM

I am joining this thread late, but I want to clear up this issue.

MultEQ XT can work with analog or digital inputs. It is, however, up to the manufacturer to decide whether they route their analog inputs through the DSP. For now, only the 5805 does this in the Denon line.

Going in via Denon Link allows MultEQ XT and all other digital processing (e.g. bass management) to work.

Best regards
ChrisHey chris, thanks for chiming in here. When is that patch gonna ship? ;)

Believe me +1db is NOT very loud.... :eek:

btw, Audyseey is also available on IEEE 1394 (I-link/firewire) inputs as well.

El Pollo

11-09-05, 09:05 AM

El Pollo,

Are you able to do HDMI switching between your DirecTV HD Tivo, AVR-3806 and your TV monitor? I can't.

No. My main TV is all component.

El Pollo

11-09-05, 09:08 AM

Thanks, does about volume display over component?

I don't think so. You can go into the setup menu over component, but as far as I can tell, adjusting volume doesn't display anything on the screen.

s2silber

11-09-05, 09:54 AM

No. My main TV is all component.
But have you tried to use the HDMI switching with the Tivo?

rgoel

11-09-05, 01:19 PM

Just received my 3806S yesterday. What is the recommended way to connect the 3806 to speakers? Should I use banana plugs, or direct wire the speakers, or some other method?

jvrobert

11-09-05, 02:57 PM

But have you tried to use the HDMI switching with the Tivo?

I had HDMI switching working fine with the DTV HD-tivo.. I say had because it's more HDMI pass-through now that I disconnected my HTPC from the other HDMI input.

Oddly, using DVI-HMDI cable from HTPC to 3806 worked fine for a day or two. Then it freaked out and I got all kinds of green screen noise and analog (looking) artifacts in the image, it was unusable.

Tivo works fine, though, though it seems to take a while to sync.

Another thing I found annoying about using a 3806 for an HTPC DVI switch is that the PC detected "Denon Receiver" instead of "Sony TV" when it went throuth the 3806. I'm wondering if that's what freaked out my video card, like maybe some of the EDID info wasn't coming though or something.

s2silber

11-09-05, 04:30 PM

jvrobert

11-09-05, 07:51 PM

So, you've got HDMI going out from your D*TV HD Tivo, through the 3806 and out to your TV monitor via HDMI? I wish I could say the same. What brand HDMI cable are you using? Why does yours work and mine doesn't? :confused:

Yeah, the HR10-250 works fine for me. I just went to Fry's and bought a non-name HDMI cable, 3 meters I think. The PC DVI-HDMI connection is another matter - worked at first, now doesn't.

So I have:
HDTivo -> HDMI -> Denon -> HDMI -> Sony HDMI 1
PC -> DVI-HDMI Cable -> Sony HDMI 2

Jason

Adam Gutierrez

11-09-05, 10:32 PM

Heya Guys,

I've read this entire thread and I need someone to bottom line this for me. I have a Dish 811 HDTV DVI out and a Momitsu DVI out currently being switched by a Gefen 2 x 1 DVI switcher to a BenQ PE8700. Works fantasic, no problems syncing video ever. Will the 3806 switch these DVI sources (converted to HDMI of course) without any HDCP compliance issues? It's hard to tell from the thread. Also, will a Denon 1920 DVD player have any HDCP issues? I am looking to upgrade both my DVD player and receiver at the same time. The Gefen unit seems rock solid as a simple DVI switcher as far as HDCP is concerned. I can keep this in my system, but I was looking forward to ditching it with the wave of new DVI/HDMI switching receivers hitting the market.

s2silber

11-10-05, 12:28 AM

Best guess is you will probably not have any trouble with HDMI switching of DVD, but it's a toss-up on the Dish.

bnwbass

11-10-05, 12:38 PM

I am running a 3806 with a Dish 942 and HDMI works perfect.

Paul Curtis

11-11-05, 04:04 AM

Before I take the plunge, I'd just like to ask...

It's my understanding that, when not in Pure Direct mode, the 3806 internally converts its analog audio inputs (except phono) to a 192/24 PCM bitstream, which is then handed over to the DSP circuitry. I was just wondering...is this bitstream (the output of the ADC) available at any of the Denon's digital outputs?

The manual seems to state that the reverse is not possible--i.e., if the source is digital, it will not be available from the analog Tape Out jacks. But then again, the manual is so incomprehensible that I'm not quite sure what to believe. :confused:

Thanks!

--Paul Curtis

mooneydriver

11-11-05, 04:59 PM

I just noticed an annoying feature (or limitation).

My DVD player is connected to the 3806 via HDMI (plus 5.1 analog). The audio section of the HDMI connection is routed to amp, and the video is switched to the TV via HDMI. When playing a DVD-Audio disc, I can only use HDMI audio if the TV is on. When I turn the TV off, the sound goes away for several seconds (appears to be due to HDMI and/or HDCP handshake loss), and the receiver switches to the backup audio source, 5.1 analog.

Oddly enough, CDs without a video track play OK via HDMI even when the TV is off!

rgoel

11-11-05, 05:34 PM

I just noticed an annoying feature (or limitation).

My DVD player is connected to the 3806 via HDMI (plus 5.1 analog).

Mooneydriver, why do you have your DVD player connected to the 3806 via HDMI and 5.1 analog? I thought the HDMI carries the 5.1 signal as is. I ask because I'm setting up my Denon DVD-1920 to my 3806 as we speak and was only planning on running the single HDMI cable. I am no expert on these things.

s2silber

11-11-05, 06:29 PM

I wouldn't presume to speak for Mooneydriver, but my guess is that someone using both HDMI AND 5.1 analog connections from his or her DVD player is using HDMI the latter for DVD-Audio and SACD multichannel audio.

AuroraProject

11-11-05, 10:07 PM

Yep, I have my DVD-756 connected to my 3806 via HDMI for movies and DVD-A and analog 5.1 for SACD.

mooneydriver

11-12-05, 11:14 AM

s2silber is correct -- I need the 5.1 analog connection for SACDs. The only way to get the multichannel hi-resolution signals from the 1920 to the 3806 is to use the 5.1 analog connection. In contrast, DVD-Audio works fine through HDMI (as long as the TV is on!)

(the fact that HDMI cannot carry SACD signals does not mean there is a technical limitation with HDMI, by the way -- it's just another feature designed by music industry lawyers. And they wonder why SACD/DVD-Audio are not gaining ground).

s2silber

11-12-05, 11:27 AM

While you can play DVD-A through HDMI and other digital connections, I'm not sure you get true Meridian Lossless Processing (MLP) that way; I believe it becomes PCM, which is what happens to the DSD signal when you play SACD through Denon Link.
And as for the lawyers, guess what company developed SACD? (Hint: they're in today's paper over another copyright issue).

robertmeldrum

11-12-05, 11:46 AM

Hi all,

I'm about to order an Optoma H79 projector, and am also going to buy a receiver for my new home theater. My wife (bless her) loves great video and great sound, and my budget for the receiver goes all the way to $2K. Is the 3806 my best choice, given the following:
I have one HDMI cable going from the receiver location to the projector, cable already installed in the ceiling during construction, no changes/additions possible.
Comcast/Moto STB with DVR.
Speakers: Front center, new Infinity Center channel (forget model number)
Left-Right Front: old Infinity 4101As, speakers refoamed.
Rear Left-Center-Right: Bose 2-speaker minis
Center Rear Left-Right: Bose 1-speaker minis
Sub-woofer: Older JLH, seems to work fine
DVD player: will buy new if older one doesn't look good
Room: 13x15, with one wall angled out

I appreciate any advice, including mandatory speaker upgrades (am reusing where possible...)
Rob

mooneydriver

11-12-05, 01:42 PM

Rob:

My only comment is that the 3806 cannot switch video from the Moto/Comcast DVR (6412) through HDMI (well-documented problem with the HDMI/HDCP "standard"). Fear not, though, since you can use the component video from the 6412, transcode it to HDMI in the receiver, and use the existing HDMI connection from the receiver to the projector. In my setup, the picture quality looks identical between the component and HDMI connections from the 6412 using a Pioneer 50" PDP.

s2silber

11-12-05, 05:29 PM

If the HDMI issue and solution that mooneydriver suggests is acceptable -- and, by the way, the HDMI switching problem is not across the board -- I'd say buying the 3806 is worth the price for the superb sound quality of this receiver, alone. Plus, with a $2K budget for the receiver, you can keep anywhere from $700 to $900 in your pocket depending what kind of "street price" you can find.

pschwartz

11-13-05, 12:48 PM

Rob, you should take the extra left over $$ and put it into some more infinity speakers to match all the way around. They are much better than bose IMO.

jzx

11-13-05, 01:39 PM

I just noticed an annoying feature (or limitation).

Mooneydriver, et al,

Advice please. I got my 3806 Thursday night, spent an hour and a half soldering banana plugs on Friday morning and then attempted to set the 3806 up (tried to at least) and a couple things don't compute.
First, I don't seem to be able to select the Input mode with the remote control. i.e., if I turn the selector knob on the unit itself, I can choose any of the inputs. Once they're selected, it's like they're a master - the remote can then choose the video input and scroll through them. They display as a second line under the "master" input. (I *did* discover the User 1,2 & 3 choices allow me to configure one-button setups.)
Whenever I've selected TV from the Front Panel Knob and chosen "Pure Direct", within 5 or so seconds, the display goes blank on the 3806. Although I don't have my TV connected, this symptom only appears in "Pure Direct" mode. If I rotate the knob to any other position, the display stays on. Scrolling through the dimmer has no effect on this problem.
Last, I have Dish 811 and Dish 501 receivers with the 811 connected via Component. I can't get the 501 to connect via the 3806 unless I run it through the VAUX connections in the front - there aren't any Aux in the back - I don't know if it will work via VCR or any other input.
My setup is as follows: HDMI out to Sony KDF55XS955 (the only output I'm using); Sony ref DVD 7000 in via component; 811 in via component; 501 in via VAUX so far; Panasonic VCR via composite. All components are connected to a Tripp Lite UPS.
(I have two ea HDMI cables on order along with 3 more component cables and 2 more TOSLINK-Opticals) One of the HDMIs will connect the 811 which has a DVI-HDMI adapter on it.
On the PLUS side, the Audyssey setup with the included mic went beautifully and watching "Saving Private Ryan" was an unbelievable experience sound-wise. I've yet to experiment with the various hall-type settings. Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks for any advice,
Joe

epsilon

11-13-05, 02:21 PM

First, I don't seem to be able to select the Input mode with the remote control. i.e., if I turn the selector knob on the unit itself, I can choose any of the inputs. Once they're selected, it's like they're a master - the remote can then choose the video input and scroll through them. They display as a second line under the "master" input. (I *did* discover the User 1,2 & 3 choices allow me to configure one-button setups.)
You select audio sources with the numeric keypad. Look at the button labels.

Whenever I've selected TV from the Front Panel Knob and chosen "Pure Direct", within 5 or so seconds, the display goes blank on the 3806. Although I don't have my TV connected, this symptom only appears in "Pure Direct" mode. If I rotate the knob to any other position, the display stays on. Scrolling through the dimmer has no effect on this problem.

That behavior is by design. From the manual:
When this mode is set, all circuits and processes not required for
the selected input source (FL tube, video circuit and tone control,
as well as digital circuitry and other unnecessary circuits for
analog audio inputs) are automatically turned off so the music
signals can be reproduced with high sound quality.

s2silber

11-13-05, 07:02 PM

Rob, you should take the extra left over $$ and put it into some more infinity speakers to match all the way around. They are much better than bose IMO.
You know what our friends over in the audiophile forums say about Bose, don't you? "No highs, no lows...must be a Bose." :p

jzx

11-13-05, 08:49 PM

Epsilon,

Thanks very much for the information. Although I like to think I've read and re-read the manual, it's obvious I missed those. I don't know about others in this forum but this Denon manual leaves one heck of a lot to be desired in my opinion.
Again, thanks for taking the time to help me - I was really wondering if the unit would have to go back or not. It doesn't.

Joe
<-><-><-><-><-><->

mooneydriver

11-13-05, 10:54 PM

jzx

11-13-05, 11:18 PM

Epsilon beat me to it! Yes, unfortunately the remote was designed by deranged interns who missed out on the "Human Interfaces 101" class. The device icons on the electroluminescent display are only to select which device the remote will emulate -- you change inputs using the numeric keypad. It probably makes perfect sense in some alternate universe. Fortunately, I toss all OEM remotes and use a Pronto.

jzx: your Dish receivers should work through any video input in the back (use one of the component inputs). Just go into the system menu and do the mapping under the video setup. You may also want to rename the preset input to "Dish 501" or something.

Thanks Mooneydriver. As far as the 501 goes, it doesn't have component out but it does have S-VHS. The 811 OTOH does have component out so I'm using it that way until my additional HDMI cables arrive. I thought I had tried one of the VCR S-VHS inputs but maybe not. I'm definitely technically inclined but this thing is nothing like its predecessor - an HK AVR75. Once my additional cables arrive, I'll reconnect everything (except the 3806 since I have it feeding the HDMI of my Sony 55XS) and see what's happening.

Thanks much,
Joe
<-><-><-><-><-><->

jzx

11-14-05, 03:32 PM

jzx: your Dish receivers should work through any video input in the back (use one of the component inputs). Just go into the system menu and do the mapping under the video setup. You may also want to rename the preset input to "Dish 501" or something.

Mooneydriver,

You were right - I ran the S-VHS cable from the Dish 501 to the VCR2 IN and the TosLink to Opt 2. I can now view and hear the 501 as well as the 811 (which is connected via Component) through the 3806.
The only thing I still can't do is record on the VCR (yep, I said VCR :)) from the 3806. I can record from its own tuner and play it through the VCR1 In of the 3806 but the VCR1 Out doesn't seem to make it.
In any event, thanks again for your help - much appreciated.

Joe
<-><-><-><-><-><->

glee_hokie

11-14-05, 04:08 PM

All of the information that I'm presenting in this post has already been covered in this thread. I'm posting this information in one place since I fell into the trap of purchasing the AVR-3806 without realizing that it would not do what I need it to.

My prime issue with the AVR-3806 is that is does not support video transcoding/up-conversion from interlaced sources to progressive output (e.g. 480i to 480p). My new Panasonic TH-42PWD8UK plasma display supports 480p, 720p and 1080i video formats on it's HDMI input, not 480i, which I understand is common with modern HDMI input displays. The lack of transcoding from 480i to 480p prevents me from viewing all video sources via my HDMI input since 480i is not supported on the HDMI input.

For example, my TiVo only supports S-video output at 480i, so I cannot view my TiVO via the HDMI output. The same goes for my VCR and some game units. None of these devices output 480p, 720p or 1080i.

In addition, the AVR-3806's On Screen Display (OSD) only supports 480i output, so I cannot see the OSD using my HDMI input.

One of the primary reasons I purchased the AVR-3806 was to simplify my A/V setup for those family members that don't understand all of the inputs and outputs. I wanted to eliminate having to switch between different TV inputs and A/V receiver outputs by converting everything to HDMI. On the surface the AVR-3806 supports this goal but in reality for many users this is not true due to it's limitation of not supporting 480i to 480p up-conversion.

If I want to continue using the HDMI input to my display, the only solution that I can think of is to add a video processor to my A/V rack to convert all of the 480i signals to 480p or better, however, this does not meet my goal of trying to simplify since the input would have to be selected on the video processor. In addition the OSD would still not function correctly.

Has anyone else come up with a solution to the 480i problem? Is there an inexpensive box that I could put inline with each of my 480i sources to transcode to 480p?

Tom Grooms

11-14-05, 04:18 PM

You could start by tossing the VCR, dvd burners are under $100 these days. You should also step-up and start enjoying High Definition TV. The HD box will output 480p and you're set.

You could buy a Harmony 880 remote to control the system, that would make your family happy.

JohnnyG

11-14-05, 04:26 PM

While you can play DVD-A through HDMI and other digital connections, I'm not sure you get true Meridian Lossless Processing (MLP) that way; I believe it becomes PCM, which is what happens to the DSD signal when you play SACD through Denon Link.
Either way, that's pretty much irrelevant...at least for DVD-A. It's MLP on the disc, so it HAS to be decoded somewhere, and since MLP is lossless, the quality of the decoder is not an issue.

glee_hokie

11-14-05, 04:26 PM

Should I also toss the TiVo? TiVo does not have a stand-alone unit that outputs anything other than composite and S-video.

Tom Grooms

11-14-05, 04:51 PM

jzx

11-14-05, 05:00 PM

Should I also toss the TiVo? TiVo does not have a stand-alone unit that outputs anything other than composite and S-video.
Glee_Hokie, I'm not sure we're talking apples to apples here but I can watch the output of my Panasonic VCR as well as my Dish 501 receiver by passing them through the 3806. In fact, my DVD player (an older Sony reference 7000) is not progressive so it's simply outputting 480i also plays perfectly through the 3806. Although the DVD is connected via component, the Dish 501 offers only composite or S-VHS (I'm using S-VHS) and the Panny VCR is only composite out. The only output from my 3806 to my Sony HDTV (55XS955) is via one HDMI cable.

Joe
<-><-><-><-><-><->

glee_hokie

11-14-05, 05:04 PM

Yup, toss it to the curb. There are a ton of solutions for time shifting High Definition, Im sure you can find one with the feature set you looking for and a price you're comfortable with.

If you have an HDMI display device, you deserve better than old-school 4:3 analog TV, don't you agree?

Tom, no, I disagree.

I value my TiVo's features more than I value HDTV. Regarding other time shifting solutions, I actually own several and I've found the TiVo to be so superior that I am willing to give up HDTV in exchange for TiVo's superior feature set.

s2silber

11-14-05, 05:14 PM

Why not just get an HD Tivo?

glee_hokie

11-14-05, 05:29 PM

Why not just get an HD Tivo?

HD TiVos are designed for DirectTV not stand-alone (cable) use.

This also would not address the other issues such as the OSD problem.

glee_hokie

11-14-05, 05:31 PM

Glee_Hokie, I'm not sure we're talking apples to apples here but I can watch the output of my Panasonic VCR as well as my Dish 501 receiver by passing them through the 3806. In fact, my DVD player (an older Sony reference 7700) is not progressive so it's simply outputting 480i also plays perfectly through the 3806. Although the DVD is connected via component, the Dish 501 offers only composite or S-VHS (I'm using S-VHS) and the Panny VCR is only composite out. The only output from my 3806 to my Sony HDTV (55XS955) is via one HDMI cable.

Joe

Joe, I'm guessing that your display supports 480i via HDMI. Do you know for sure?

Murray1080

11-14-05, 05:44 PM

Does anyone know it the HDMI on the 3806 boost the signal at all when your using a 20mt cable run to a projector? I was told it does but need to confirm it on here? :confused:

jzx

11-14-05, 08:59 PM

Joe, I'm guessing that your display supports 480i via HDMI. Do you know for sure?
I'll check what I can but so far, all I've come up with is this quote from Crutchfield: " » 8 A/V inputs, including:
• 4 composite video (3 rear, 1 front)
• 4 S-video (3 rear, 1 front)
• 2 HD-compatible component video (accepts 1080i/720p/480p/480i signals)
• 2 HDMI digital audio/video inputs".
In addition, the Sony sheet says it'll support twin pictures w/480i.
Since I have no problem viewing any of the peripherals with the only connection between the 3806 and the Sony HDTV being one HDMI cable, it apparently does.
What set are you viewing on?

Joe
<-><-><-><-><-><->

glee_hokie

11-14-05, 11:00 PM

I'll check what I can but so far, all I've come up with is this quote from Crutchfield: " » 8 A/V inputs, including:
• 4 composite video (3 rear, 1 front)
• 4 S-video (3 rear, 1 front)
• 2 HD-compatible component video (accepts 1080i/720p/480p/480i signals)
• 2 HDMI digital audio/video inputs".
In addition, the Sony sheet says it'll support twin pictures w/480i.
Since I have no problem viewing any of the peripherals with the only connection between the 3806 and the Sony HDTV being one HDMI cable, it apparently does.
What set are you viewing on?

Joe
<-><-><-><-><-><->

I'm viewing on a Panasonic TH-42PWD8UK. No 480i support on the HDMI input.

JohnnyG

11-15-05, 12:32 PM

Does anyone know it the HDMI on the 3806 boost the signal at all when your using a 20mt cable run to a projector? I was told it does but need to confirm it on here? :confused:
I don't know for sure, but I would think it has to. Although strictly speaking, it doesn't "boost" the signal...it repeats it.

ktreger

11-16-05, 03:23 PM

Has anyone had problems running ZONE 2 out of the pre-amp? I am using analog inputs in addition to digital ones as the manual suggests, but still can't seem to get the 2nd zone to work. I have tried turning off the back speakers as well to free up the amp for the 2nd zone. Any ideas?

eceja

11-16-05, 05:55 PM

jvrobert

11-16-05, 06:51 PM

I just got my 3806 and have also went through the hdmi problem not being compiant with the cable boxes, but has anyone have an issue with the no audio using HDMI. I have a LG DVD player that up converts to high definition. I cant get any audio out just using HDMI. I confirmed my DVD player works if I connect it straight to my HDMI input in my sony HD TV I get sound and pic. I also noticed that When I connect the DVD player via HDMI in to the 3806 it takes a while before it syncs and shows pic on my TV, sometimes it shows pic but is pink in color, I then have to change the resolution on my DVD player down to like 480 then back to 1080i. Any suggestions?

Well, did you double check that you hve it configured for pass-through of HDMI audio? There's an option in there somewhere to either decode audio in the AMP or in the TV... I've successfully passed audio and video through mine to TV.

I do have sync issues like you mention from time to time, sometimes it'll just drop sync (black screen) for no apparent reason then come back a min later. I'm hoping they can fix some of these issues via firmware updates.

eceja

11-16-05, 08:58 PM

Yes I did check the setting that alows you to route the audio thriugh the amp or tv. I have tries both. What I have noticed is that when I go to DVD on the Reciever it displace the EXT in but I am not using those. Do you think the HDMI cable is the problem. I bought it from circuit city its made by Belkin.

rgoel

11-17-05, 12:43 AM

WillyWonka

11-17-05, 04:48 AM

Hi to everyone,
i would like to resolve this :

my dvd player is connected via S-VHS to the 3806.
the 3806 is connected via HDMI to my AE900 prj (monitor out)
the 3806 is connected via S-VHS to my TV too (monitor out).

when i entter in the setup of the 3806 i have on the tv the 3806 menu + the images coming from the dvd.... it's not clear to see....
How can i resolv this ? (i need the monitor out to the tv and to the prj too)

thank you

Bill Mac

11-17-05, 10:47 AM

s2silber

11-17-05, 10:55 AM

For those who have posted concerning the HDMI switching problem with certain cable/sat boxes, here's an interesting item from Secrets of Home Theatre, posted by the editor there.

"I contacted Leslie Chard, who is President of the organization that licenses HDMI, about the questions raised in this thread. Here are his responses:

"We have heard complaints that some cable TV boxes are not working correctly when used in conjunction with an A/V receiver (but will typically function correctly when connected directly to a TV/monitor). Investigation of some of these devices reveals that this is caused by an error in the way these devices implement HDCP (HDCP is a content protection system that is nearly always implemented in HDMI). Specifically, some of those boxes do not support "HDCP Repeaters" such as an A/V Receiver or switch. The same is likely true of all such failures. This is not an HDMI-specific problem (as we have seen the same problem in DVI outputs as well). We believe that this may be a problem in the initial versions of these products, and in some cases there is new firmware available that fixes this issue in HDMI (newer versions may already have this fix.). We have contacted the manufacturers to try to get a more complete and direct resolution of any problems.

We suggest that users contact their cable operator and request the new software to address this bug."

jzx

11-17-05, 11:22 AM

Of the following speaker connection types, which are supported by the 3806:
- Spades
- Pins
- Banana Plugs
- Bare wire

Would anybody care to rank the ease of connection and quality of connection specifically with respect to 3806? I'm trying to make a single online cabling purchase and planning accordingly.

Thanks.
Because Denon has partial shoulders on each speaker input jack together with the fact that they're very close to each other, the use of pins or bare wires would be difficult to get into (read crowded). Spades definitely won't work due to these shoulders.
I spent about an hour and a half cutting, tinning and then soldering all the wires (10) for my 5 speakers and couldn't be happier with the ease and positiveness required to make the connections now that I'm using banana plugs. (Having an old Xacto 3rd-hand helped immensely.) I know it will always be easy now to remove and reinstall the wires.

Joe
<-><-><-><-><-><->

sparky7

11-17-05, 12:34 PM

I sent an e-mail to MOTOROLA about my DCT6200 HD box not passing DVI signal thru my JVC RX-D402 HDMI switching receiver.Their answer was "Unfortunately the DCT6412 Phase III HDMI connection is not supported in relation to connecting the unit through a repeater [Audio/video receiver] An HDMI repeater is any device between DCT and the TV [A/V receiver, DVD recorder,Tivo] The HDMI cable must go directly from the DCT6412 to the TV.Motorola continues to strive for better quality on their products etc." So I guess that goes for all Motorola HD boxes.

jonjones

11-17-05, 05:36 PM

Pete

11-17-05, 06:25 PM

You're wrong. It has a tuner.

epsilon

11-17-05, 06:50 PM

Not only does it have an AM/FM tuner, but a satellite (XM) one as well.

jzx

11-17-05, 07:13 PM

I'm wondering what my fellow 3806 owners are doing for their AM/FM tuner. I just got my 3806 and don't think there is a built in tuner (I may be wrong - I hope I'm wrong). I've built a Denon system with the 3806 which includes the DVD 3910 and will also include the CD changer 380.

Any suggestions for the tuner?

Thanks,

- JonJ
The specs boast it has "56 Station Auto-Preset Memory Tuning". These are referenced on the Remote in the icon display as 'A' through 'G' with each letter storing up to 8 stations. Mine has 8 AM stations set (by me) on the 'B' choice. I have FM on most of the rest but, even here in the suburbs of D.C., there's no way I can find 48 more stations that I want to listen to. :)

Joe
<-><-><-><-><-><->

jonjones

11-17-05, 07:30 PM

Thanks guys for the quick reply - I saw the XM stuff but must have breezed right by the other mention of one while I was drooling over all the inputs...

- JonJ

S1DIMMER

11-17-05, 09:20 PM

Does the 3806 do any kind of upscaling of analog video inputs out to the HDMI port? I know the Yamaha RX-V2600 does upscale 480i/p signals to 720p/1080i. I think I might go with the Yamaha if the Denon doesn't upscale. For some reason I'm still considering the Onkyo TX-SR803 - probably that it's much cheaper than the Denon or the Yamaha.

Johnla

11-18-05, 01:06 AM

Does the 3806 do any kind of upscaling of analog video inputs out to the HDMI port?

No

Bill Mac

11-18-05, 04:28 AM

I have followed this thread from the beginning as well as the 74txvi threads I finally decided on the 3806 by the slightest margin. The thing that I find odd is that there is very little talk about SQ in these threads.

Most of the posts are in regard to HDMI switching which is an important feature but I would think more people would be interested in how these recievers sound first then consider the features next. Just an early morning thought.

Bill

Mr.Lawrence

11-18-05, 07:05 AM

Did anyone else happen to see that the Denon AVR-3806 is available at Costco for $200 less than retail. Costco also has the Denon 4806, 2106, 1905 and 1705.

s2silber

11-18-05, 09:23 AM

Did anyone else happen to see that the Denon AVR-3806 is available at Costco for $200 less than retail. Costco also has the Denon 4806, 2106, 1905 and 1705.
Really?? The 3806, not the 3805? Surely Costco is not an authorized dealer. I wonder if they have the Denon DVD 3910?

S1DIMMER

11-18-05, 09:39 AM

No

Thanks Johnla - looks like the Yamaha RX-V2600 is in the lead and will probably be my next receiver.

tsax6010

11-18-05, 10:20 AM

I was wondering if anyone had tried switching a 1080p source through HDMI.

Denon UK tauts the ability of the 3806 to switch a 1080p signal, but Denon USA does not mention it as a feature. I called Denon yesterday, and they confirmed the feature, but said that they do not advertise it because there are not many 1080p sources available.

I have received email responces from both Yamaha and Pioneer, in that neither the RX-V2600 or the VSX-74TXVi will pass through a 1080p signal over HDMI.

Mr.Lawrence

11-18-05, 11:33 AM

Really?? The 3806, not the 3805? Surely Costco is not an authorized dealer. I wonder if they have the Denon DVD 3910?

It's definetly the AVR-3806.

I can't imagine that a large chain like Costco wouldn't be authorized. I'll check the Denon web site to see.

larry

Tom Grooms

11-18-05, 11:47 AM

Intechxication

Great, pick up a 10lb jar of mayonnaise and a 4806. (no, they are not authorized. You have to know what your selling and have the ability to demonstrate to be an authorized retailer, now where are those monster jars of pickles...)

Johnla

11-18-05, 12:33 PM

It's definetly the AVR-3806.

I can't imagine that a large chain like Costco wouldn't be authorized. I'll check the Denon web site to see.

Don't bother, Costco is not a authorized Denon dealer.
But with their lifetime satisfaction warranty, why would it matter? That alone is better than even the Denon warranty.

seattlemike

11-18-05, 02:36 PM

Does Denon let the customer have firmware upgrades if bought from an unauthorized dealer?

rgoel

11-18-05, 06:47 PM

Just got my Comcast 6412 (III) installed, which has an HDMI output. Based on previous postings, am I correct in assuming that I CANNOT run HDMI from the 6412 into the 3806 and then HDMI from the 3806 into my TV? Instead, I should be running component video from the 6412 into the 3806 and HDMI from the 3806 into the TV, due to the HDMI repeater issue?

s2silber

11-18-05, 07:20 PM

You should certainly TRY the HDMI connection. The inoperability issue has been sporadic, i.e., on some of the same model boxes it works and with others it doesn't. Let us know.

BTex68

11-18-05, 08:57 PM

Dimmy_mkII

11-19-05, 12:28 AM

I have just read all of these posts and didn't see an answer to a question I have.
Why does my volume seem to be limited? It is different for different settings but not even pure direct will go up to the 18db the 3806 is supposedly capable of. The loudest reading shown on the receiver was 4db. My main surround modes generally are around 1 db...MAX. Won't go higher. and in a couple cases, needs to.
The volume limit setting is off.
What is this?

Either you or the auto setup procedure has boosted the individual channel volumes of speakers to unusually high levels. Personally, I don't trust ANY auto setup routine to correctly calibrate channel levels and it'd be wise of you to get hold of an SPL meter and check the levels yourself. I'm guessing if you can't go above +1dB in multichannel mode you can 'drop' the audio very low? as low as around -90dB or thereabouts? You will be achieving the same sound pressure levels regardless of where the 'scope' of your dynamic range lies in the digital volume control, assuming the speakers are correctly calibrated, you don't have an excessively large room and your speakers do not present an especially insensitive and difficult load to the amplifier.

Also, Why does this seem so difficult to setup? The Yamaha 4600 I test drove for a month sounded much better in every mode simply using the auto setup. Much fuller sound.(I returned it because of HDMI issues, some issues the Denon has also)

Yamaha put a lot of effort into their colourful and attractive GUI and have one of the more accurate auto setup routines. They have some of the best in-house engineers in the business. Sorry to be so blunt but I'd have kept the Yamaha were I you and waited for a fix to the HDMI problem.

The Denon seems to need to be tweaked in every mode. bleh The sub is the main problem. Sub levels sound good only when the input is multi and not 2 channel.
Seems the Denon has the balls to achieve that sound but I'm unable to figure out the correct settings to achieve it.

The 3806, well every AV processor infact, boosts subwoofer levels in multichannel mode by default, and increases the subwoofer volume by varying amounts according to how many of your speakers are set to small (the more speakers you set to small, the louder the subwoofer plays - this is difficult to correct without using external equalising equipment and bypassing the amp's internal test tones!).

Try setting all of your loudspeakers to small if you haven't already and giving stereo another go - you should get a fair bit more kick from the subwoofer. Alternatively the Denon is capable of memorising volume settings on a 'per listening mode' basis so there is no reason you can't tweak the subwoofer output to your liking in stereo without interfering with its two channel sound.

Just to touch on a few other points mentioned in this thread.

The 3806 is sufficiently equipped to drive speakers of a 4 Ohm Load so if you are experiencing problems with a speaker package of varying impedence between loudspeakers chances are they are related to the inadequacies in the setup routine rather than anything to do with the poweramplifiers. If your loudspeakers are both of a low average load and a low sensitivity then, however, you might be taxing the amplifier a little too much (this is very unlikely with most modern loudspeakers).

480p instability with conversion to HDMI is most likely a software bug and changes are probably being made in running production to address it - contact Denon since this is a defect they are required to repair.

If MultiEQxT does not work with analogue inputs (I've no idea whether it does or not since I have not tried) it is probably due to incompatibilities between the sampling rates and resolution of the receiver's ADCs rather than something inherently wrong with the EQ process. It seems unlikely to me however that the EQ technology only works with digital sources considering the OSD has the option of enabling this for direct/pure direct modes and such forth...

MultiEQxT WILL NOT work with EXT inputs on the AVR-3806 since these remain in the analogue domain right up until the poweramp stages and bypass any ADCs of any kind, and are only altered for channel level adjustements and such forth. You will need to step up to the THX certified Denon receivers for the capability of routing the EXT inputs through a series of ADCs for any kind of digital signal processing.

If people would like to read more on the deviations in a typical processor's technical performance then they should give Miller Audio Research (http://www.milleraudioresearch.com) a try, since it details the effects that tinkering with bass management settings and such forth have on a processor's output levels (including those of the 3805). Manufacturers tend to use a set series of parameters when it comes to bass management so it's likely that the 3806 relies on similar alogrithms to the AVR-3805.

There is also some indication given on the website of low frequency rolloff order achieved when setting loudspeakers to 'small' (and the subsequent increases in THD as a result). The website is a little technical but if you have a fair understanding of digital/analogue audio/electrical engineering you can probably ascertain most of the information you'd like from it - expect lab test results for the AVR-3806 soon.

Fishhooks

11-19-05, 10:15 PM

jzx

11-20-05, 10:40 AM

A little side-track on topic, but any recommendations for on-line sellers of "good" HDMI and DVI cables and adapters, since this aspect will have a bearing on many of the issues being discussed here.
Australian distributors not up to speed with these things, unless things have changed recently!
Try monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com) - I've purchased close to a dozen cables from them including 4ea HDMI, several Toslink Opticals, several Component (all of the preceding are 6 ft long) and have had flawless performance. I also purchased a DVI-HDMI adapter from them for my Dish 811 - works great!
I just added a Sony DVPNS70H DVD Player yesterday and used one of the aforementioned HDMI cables to connect it to my 3806. Again, flawless performance.

Joe
<-><-><-><-><-><->

Paul E. Fox, II

11-20-05, 11:05 AM

I can second the recommendation for Monoprice. I bought a few cables from them recently and the quality seems to be excellent and the price totally destroys what you can find at the big box stores that sell these things to us.

My only problems...the shipping seemed to be a bit high! It was more than one of the cables in fact. Also, they shipped the cables to me in a cardboard Priority Mail envelope(!) which was totally inadequate, in my opinion, and nearly destroyed. The cables were alright but I was less than impressed with the packaging.

All that aside, the quality of the cables as well as their prices will make me a customer again in the very near future!

ellisr63

11-20-05, 03:05 PM

I just purchased 2 6' hdmi to dvi cables, a 10' hdmi to dvi cable and 4 optical cable for less than a normal hdmi to dvi cable. Def buy from Monoprice in the future for me. The cables arrived in my mailbox a couple of days after my order too.

brandon123

11-20-05, 05:23 PM

Hi I would like your opinion for the following system:
I have five Outlaw monoblock 2200's amp, Denon 3910 - 3rd edition, Polk rti12'sLR, Csi5C, polk rti10's 2 back channels, PSW505 sub, and looking for a nice receiver or processor. what would you recommend, I was looking at Yamaha 2600, denon 3806 or 4306 or a processor? I have a 42sony FDK42a10 lcd rear projection tv with one HDMI inout. Would you give me your honest opinion, I can't listen to any of them because they do not have them in my area of the country. I was scammed out of $1500 for a denon 4806 online and filed a FBI report so I want to buy form a reoutable dealer and needed some good advice. Also, the video upscaling is nice but there are many complaints with Comcast, but it would be nice to have for the future. thanks!
Michael

tommyjh

11-20-05, 07:10 PM

rgoel,
I have had the same issues as you have with the 6412 III and HDMI - have had to resort to component upconverting. Tried both with the 3806 as well as a JVC rx-d401 and get the same issue with the 'hdcp has been compromised blah blah'.

While I will likely try to call my cable provider about it, does anyone know if the manufacturer (Motorola) is doing anything to fix this? I seem to be at the most recent firmware so I can't think of any other options. Seems as if there are more than a few people who are having this problem.....

MPLSMORGAN

11-20-05, 07:30 PM

I’m hoping someone with experience with the AVR-3806 can help me with a question. Certainly the guys in the stores can’t. My question is primarily about the HDMI switching capability.

I’m comparing the AVR-3806 with Yamaha’s RX-V1600 (or RX-V2600). I know that the 1080p capability isn’t terribly relevant now but I assume it will be fairly soon – in a year or so. My TV has 1080p capability so I’d like to think that if I had a 1080p source (some day) and it was passed through my AV receiver (via HDMI) that I would get the entire value of the original source.

When I contacted Yamaha about their receiver’s HDMI switching capability, their Emailed response was “Those receivers do not have the ability to pass 1080p signal.”

When I contacted Denon, the Emailed response was “My understanding is that this model will pass 1080p.” I would have felt a lot better if he just would have said “yes, it would pass 1080p” but now I still have a question in the back of my mind.

1) Why WOULDN’T any of these receivers pass 1080p? I thought one of the benefits of HDMI was that it had so much bandwidth that future formats should not be a problem (at least for a while)?

3) Why would Denon pass 1080p and Yamaha not? I’d assume the two receivers were fairly comparable from a benefit/analysis perspective. Why would one do this and the other not?

Tom Grooms

11-20-05, 08:00 PM

Hey rookie, no posting of prices other than retail.

Read the rules!

MPLSMORGAN

11-20-05, 08:05 PM

Hey rookie, no posting of prices other than retail.

Read the rules!

Sorry about that. I've deleted the message now and won't repeat the error.

MPLSMORGAN

11-20-05, 08:10 PM

Did anyone else happen to see that the Denon AVR-3806 is available at Costco for $200 less than retail. Costco also has the Denon 4806, 2106, 1905 and 1705.

Currently Costco is only distributing:

AVR-4806
AVR-1905
AVR-2106
AVR-1705

Alan Gouger

11-20-05, 08:11 PM

MPLSMORGAN

Thank you for deleting that and welcome to the forum :)

Dimmy_mkII

11-20-05, 09:14 PM

Some video switching facilities in some receivers are of very low bandwidth, usually in lower priced receivers which are only designed for interlaced or progressive component switching of SD sources.

If the 3806 can switch 1080p sources (I'm not sure if it can or not) and the Yamaha cannot it will be because the Denon has allocated sufficient bandwidth for their receiver's video switching to do just that.

Playstation 3 is reportedly 1080p capable, so we may be needing such switching facilities a little sooner than expected.

s2silber

11-20-05, 10:51 PM

So, are you guys saying that the Monoprice cables solve the HDMI switching problems with cable/sat boxes and the AVR 3806?

Johnla

11-20-05, 11:42 PM

So, are you guys saying that the Monoprice cables solve the HDMI switching problems with cable/sat boxes and the AVR 3806?

Just cables alone can't fix that. Because it's not a cable problem.

tsax6010

11-20-05, 11:50 PM

When I contacted Denon, the Emailed response was “My understanding is that this model will pass 1080p.” I would have felt a lot better if he just would have said “yes, it would pass 1080p” but now I still have a question in the back of my mind.

I called Denon USA last week and verified that the 3806 will pass 1080p. You can also go to tthe Denon UK website and look up the detailed specs, where it states 1080p HDMI switching.

MPLSMORGAN

11-21-05, 11:29 AM

Thanks for the tips – especially the UK Denon site – I certainly wouldn’t have thought to look there. Why WOULD the UK site have more info than the North American site? I also talked to someone at Denon and they told me the it supported 1080p but I wanted something in print. I guess I'm just not very trusting.

Anyway…

In their typically cryptic way, here’s how the UK site lists the connectivity options:

HDMI / DVI-D Inputs...... 2* up to 1080p / - *HDMI 1.1 with 6ch DVD-Audio Support
HDMI / DVI-D Outputs.... 1 / -

I assume (and I hate doing that) that the “-“ in the outputs section indicates that the output will be whatever the input is, up to 1080p. Here’s hoping for the best.

Any reason not to buy one of these online and save a couple of hundred bucks? Are warranties still valid for the most part?

LIVEWIRE76

11-21-05, 12:53 PM

brandon, are you happy with the polks? I just ordered tosh 62mx195, Denon 3806, and Polks with the rti10's,csi5,bookshelf rears, and 505 sub.

rgoel

11-21-05, 01:29 PM

I connected my newly installed Motorola 6412 III (provided by Comcast in Menlo Park, CA) to my 3806 and then to my HP Plasma. The 3806 to HP Plasma connection is via HDMI.

I could NOT get the 6412 to communicate to the 3806 via HDMI. I got a completely black screen. No error message or anything. (The only setup activity I performed was the following: plug HDMI cable into 6412 out and into 3806 HDMI1 input. Go into 3806 video setup screen, select TV for HDMI1 input. End of setup).

I then connected the 6412 to the 3806 using component video cables into the 3806's Component1 input. Repeated setup as above, but selected Component1 instead of HDMI. Voila, TV signal appears on the TV.

Can anyone confirm that my setup procedure for using HDMI from the 6412 to the 3806 is correct? Because I only got a black screen, and not an error message, I'm wondering if the problem is in fact an HDMI repeater issue or a setup issue on my end.

Thanks.

AuroraProject

11-21-05, 10:59 PM

rgoel

11-21-05, 11:31 PM

I know it's a known issue. Some people get it to work, others do not. But according to other posts, people get an error message when it doesn't work. I got no message, just a blank screen. My question is, is the setup I followed (2 posts up) correct or is there possibly an error on my side with respect to setup?

MPK

11-22-05, 06:54 AM

Hi Guys,

Can anyone help me with this problem please? Last weekend I tried to setup a friend's new 3806. It's connected via HDMI to a new 6 gen Pioneer plasma (436XDE as they call it in Europe). I now wanted to route a satellite receiver (Sky+ box) via s-video through the amp and upconvert it to HDMI and then to the screen. Switched on HDMI upconversion and all necessary video settings. Could see the 3806 setup menu on the screen with the satellite picture in the background in black and white.

However, as soon as I exit the 3806 setup menu the screen goes black, no more signal. I played around for hours with the 3806 settings as well as the TV settings, but no success. It seems there is something wrong with the upconversion. Any ideas?

Many thanks

Pete

11-22-05, 06:11 PM

The analog to digital conversion in the 3806 does not change 480i to 480p. Maybe the plasma does not want to see 480i at the HDMI input.

Fishhooks

11-22-05, 10:59 PM

Just what may be a known fact to some, but not to others:
Whenever you are testing cabling and routing of HDMI signals >Always power off and re-power the HDMI source equipment after you have made the connection<
A lot of HDMI equipment will not feed a signal to the final connection point, unless it is actually powered-up with all connections intact and final, perhaps even including the receiver.
Case in point, I have a "SONY" terrestrial HD Tuner for Australian HD TV and unless it is powered up as above, it will not originate an HDMI output, thus nothing.

italia101

11-23-05, 12:07 AM

I have the Scientific-Atlanta 8300HD set-top box. I was going to buy the 3806 to swith between DVD player / Xbox 360 / Projector.

Do I understand correctly that I may not be able to use the Denon 3806 to switch due to compatability issues?

If so has anyone had issues with the 8300HD box? I really want to have one source without running a bunch of wires. Any other suggestions? Thanks.

Mr.Lawrence

11-23-05, 09:34 AM

I feel like I must be getting old or something.

When I decided to replace my 5 year old Denon AVR-1801, I was leaning towards the Denon AVR-2106, but after reading many of the post here I decided to get the AVR-3806.

Well, things sure have changed in the last 5 years. I thought that I could just connect my speakers (5.1), connect my DVD player (1920) and press play. :(

Seems it's not going to be that easy. I'm really not technically challenged (my day job is as a Network Administrator), but this seems a bit overwhelming. It doesn't help that the instructions don't seem to be very clear to me.

Anyway, can anyone give me a simplified way to approach setup. My equipment includes:

Philips 37" LCD (2 HDMI inputs, 3 component, S-Video & Composite)
Denon AVR-3806
Denon DVD-1920
Klipsch SLX (L,R,C)
Athena WS-15 (surounds)
Velodyne CT-100 Sub

Previously I had the DVD-1920 video connected directly to my Philips using a single HDMI cable, and audio connected to my AVR-1801 using a Toslink cable. The speakers were all connected appropriately and everything worked.

I expected to do the same with the 3806, but it didn't work.

I don't think that I need to have my hand held, just some guidance on how I should approach setup. This has become a really humbling experience. :o

Thanks,

Larry

rgoel

11-23-05, 11:54 AM

Mr. Lawrence,
I just went through a similar setup process last night, and was a bit overwhelmed at first. I can tell you though it wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. I setup an HP PL4200N TV, 3806, 1920, Klispch SLX, and Sub-12. Couple of high-level recommendations on things you should do:
1) Hook up all of the components per your preferences
2) Go into the 3806's setup routine, and using the Audio Assignment and Video Assignment menus, tell the 3806 what device is connected to what inputs/outputs on the 3806
3) Run the Auto Setup MultexEQ routine to get all of the audio baseline configured

I'm sure there's a lot more you can do, but this should suffice to get some initial sound and picture going.

Others on the board, what are recommended next steps for fine tuning the automated setup parameters once you have the basics down?

rgoel

11-23-05, 11:56 AM

I am setting up the 3806 in a 3.1 configuration (Klipsch Synergy SLX speakers in front, left, center positions and Klipsch Sub-12 subwoofer) for now. In a few months I'll be adding the rear speakers, hopefully.

What do I need to do to inform the 3806 that the rear channel sound needs to come from the front speakers? I read something cryptic in the manual about Front mode vs Front B mode but couldn't figure it out exactly.

Any recommendations?

Thanks.

Mr.Lawrence

11-23-05, 01:03 PM

s2silber

11-23-05, 02:53 PM

Just what may be a known fact to some, but not to others:
Whenever you are testing cabling and routing of HDMI signals >Always power off and re-power the HDMI source equipment after you have made the connection<
A lot of HDMI equipment will not feed a signal to the final connection point, unless it is actually powered-up with all connections intact and final, perhaps even including the receiver.
Yeah, but what if your STB is a Tivo, or something like that, that is always on? There is a "Standby" mode for changing inputs, but using it while disconnecting the component cables did not enable the HDMI to pass through the 3806. :(

michaelggray

11-23-05, 03:18 PM

I have the 3806 and SA 8300HD DVR connected using HDMI and it is working fine. It may depend on the date or the firmware of the 8300 box.

Tom Grooms

11-23-05, 07:53 PM

Larry, ask your dealer to help you with the set-up. He should have already given you detailed instructions and took you through set-up in the shop to give you a feel for it. Or better yet, ask him to come over and set it up.

Remember "hook-up" is simple but "set-up" can make all the difference in performance.

ken325i

11-23-05, 08:38 PM

Requesting some technical assistance/insights on audio performance......

Background:
Had a 3805 and was very pleased. But when the 3806 came out, I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade to get HDMI and XM -- wanted to have an AVR to grow with. Was able to get full refund on the 3805.

Since getting the 3806 there has been something about the audio that I can not put my finger on -- it just doesn't seem to have the robustness that the 3805 had. This became more apparent tonight while watching Saving Private Ryan. With the 3805, when watching this @ -8.0db -- audio performance was so strong and powerful I could not hear myself talk. The sub vibrated the pictures on the wall! It was bone rattling - especially the initial scene on the beach invasion. Now, with the 3806, same scene -- the audio just doesn't have the same bone rattling performance. It is not the same powerful performance of the 3805. I ran auto setup for both, channel freq are all set the same, and EQ is off.

Has anyone else had similar experiences between a 3805 and 3806? Any insights/opinions on possible tweaks to improve the 3806?

Fishhooks

11-23-05, 10:13 PM

s2silber:

Sorry I can only relate to what I have found on this side of the world, so I'm not familiar with the Tivo type of gear there. Where you are saying that it is always powered, surely there must be some cable carrying volts to the device, even if such cable is carrying signal as well!
My "Sony" STB definately loses it's HDMI output any time the signal path out of the HDMI socket is broken, thus the thing needs a fresh power-up to work again.

I'm also running a new Pioneer DV-989AVi HDMI DVD Player (same as the 79AVi your way).
With this beast you can break the HDMI signal path anywhere in the chain and no problem, the signal flows all and at any time without having to do anything.

I haven't tried the Sony STB with any HDMI switching device in the signal path as yet (such as a receiver like the 3806), but I imagine if the HDMI input on these receivers is not terminated in some way when you switch away to the other HDMI input, I will lose the Sony HDMI signal and have to "re-boot" when going back to it, which will be a real pain in the a--e!

Obviously if I were to purchase a separate "PASSIVE" HDMI switcher, I will have the re-boot situation every time I go back to the STB.

I think it's all got to do with HANDSHAKES and a lot more frustration for some of us at this present time.

dsomrox

11-25-05, 02:13 AM

I have just finished installing and configuring my 3806 and am stuck trying to get output to go to Zone 3.
My setup is
Main Zone (5.1) Left ,Centre, Right, Surround A (L and R)
Zone 2 (dining room) Surround Back
Zone 3 (patio) Surround B.

I have used an old Marantz PM420 amp as a preout. This is connected using composite cables into the Zone 3 connectors at the very bottom of the preout plugs.

I have configured Option Setup-power Amp Assign-S. Back- Zone2

I can find nowhere where I tell the machine that I want my surround B speakers to be used for Zone 3 .

Any hints before I go nuts.

Dave

Dimmy_mkII

11-25-05, 07:19 AM

That is because you cannot use the surround B speakers for Zone 3 amplification.

What on earth gave you the idea that you could?

dsomrox

11-25-05, 07:41 AM

Mr.Lawrence

11-25-05, 02:45 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions...

I was able to get a baseline configuration for my 3806. I still need to tweak a bit. The key seems to be to set aside at least a good 2-3 hours. :o

Nathan_R

11-25-05, 03:13 PM

Guys, I'm having an impossibly hard time with programming the 3806's remote. I'm following the instructions (including using the correct "setup" button) and have no problem until I enter the 5-digit codes. At that point, I receive no confirmation blink. Has anyone else had similar problems?

Thanks.

gfbuchanan

11-25-05, 09:31 PM

I believe that the 3806 will not drive 3 zones of speakers.

It has 7 amplifiers. If you do 7.1 channels in the main room, then you have used up all 7 of the amps and your zone 2 and zone 3 are pre-amp out only.

If you only use 5.1 in the main room, it allows you to assign the two "extra" amps to zone 2. But zone 3 is just pre-amp out.

Greg

Thanks for the reply, can you suggest how I should configure my 3806 to enable me to have :
5.1 in main room (Left, Centre, Right, Left Rear, Right Rear, SW)
pair of speakers in Zone 2
pair of speakers in Zone 3

Please be specific about which terminals to connect which speakers to and any config settings that I need to set, as well as where to connect the external amp to drive Zone 3

Dave

gfbuchanan

11-25-05, 09:38 PM

I was having a problem programming it for my Sony TV, until I realized that the second button down from the top left was not TV but instead TU. (Looked likes TV to me!) Once I started programming the correct button, it worked OK.

It seems that the remote will NOT let you program "the wrong device" to a button. Looking at the codes in the manual, it becomes apparent that the first digit of the code corresponds to the device button that will accept the code. So if you try to program a TV code to the DVD button, it will not work.

Hope that helps.

Greg

Guys, I'm having an impossibly hard time with programming the 3806's remote. I'm following the instructions (including using the correct "setup" button) and have no problem until I enter the 5-digit codes. At that point, I receive no confirmation blink. Has anyone else had similar problems?

Thanks.

rgoel

11-25-05, 09:39 PM

Thanks for your help. I will try your suggestions. It probably doesn't matter, but did you use HDMI or Component to connect your 3806 to your monitor? Also, what cable type did you use to go from your 1920 to the 3806 (speaking of DVD and not 5.1 Audio).

Larry,
I am using HDMI from teh 3806 to the monitor and also HDMI from the 1920 to the 3806.

gfbuchanan

11-25-05, 09:53 PM

Actually, it does matter what types of cables you use. The 3806 will NOT down convert HDMI to component. So if you feed an HDMI video signal into the 3806, you will need to use HDMI from the 3806 to the TV.

Greg

Thanks for your help. I will try your suggestions. It probably doesn't matter, but did you use HDMI or Component to connect your 3806 to your monitor? Also, what cable type did you use to go from your 1920 to the 3806 (speaking of DVD and not 5.1 Audio).

Thanks,

Larry

dsomrox

11-25-05, 10:39 PM

Johnla

11-26-05, 04:14 AM

Greg,
thanks for your reply,
as I said in my first post I have another amp (Marantz pm420) which I want to use to drive Zone 3, I just can't work out how to do it.
Specifically how do I tell the amp that I want Zone 3 to use the speakers connected to the Surround B terminals, and to use the external amp to drive them.

For one thing, you need to go in the 3806 setup menus, and setup/assign everything for how you are using Zone 2 or 3, or even both Zone 2 and 3.

Look on page 24, 56, and 57 of your owners manual. All the setup instructions and diagrams for wiring for multi Zone use is on those pages.

dsomrox

11-26-05, 05:48 AM

I have read the suggested pages and am no closer to working it out.
I have succesfully enabled Zone 2 by connecting its speakers to Surround Back on the back of the amp and then going to Option Setup-power Amp Assign-S. Back- Zone2. This tells the amp that Zone 2 is using Surround Back speakers.
I cannot work out how to tell it that Surround B is Zone 3.
Can someone confirm exactly how to connect a separate amp as a preout for Zone 3. It is possible I havent done this properly.

Dave

rgoel

11-26-05, 01:44 PM

Mr.Lawrence

11-26-05, 04:34 PM

Larry,
I am using HDMI from teh 3806 to the monitor and also HDMI from the 1920 to the 3806.

Ok. I'm currently using an HDMI cable between the 3806 and my TV, and Component cables linking my DVD-1920 to the 3806. I need to purchase another HDMI cable.

eee

11-26-05, 07:36 PM

[QUOTE=Bill Mac]

Newest produced units are with updated DENONLINK, thats true.
But do you know, how long a DVD-3910 you buy today was in the Backroom of the dealer.. ;-)

In the last 5 digits of the serial number are 10000 or above, it has the upgrade

Johnla

11-26-05, 07:46 PM

I cannot work out how to tell it that Surround B is Zone 3.
Can someone confirm exactly how to connect a separate amp as a preout for Zone 3. It is possible I havent done this properly.

Look at page 26 for "basic operation" amp zone mode function control. And pages 56,57 again and also 72, under power amp assignment. Also if you have Zone 2 working now just by hooking speakers up to the surround B speaker outputs for Zone 2, that means it has already been assigned as using the surround B speaker output terminals for Zone 2. So just how do you propose to also use them for Zone 3, when in fact you are using the Zone 3 RCA outputs for a external amp for Zone 3?

gfbuchanan

11-26-05, 11:19 PM

Ok, if you are using the surround back speaker outputs for Zone 2, you have used all of your amps. You have to look at another place for Zone 3. In your case you must use the Zone 3 Pre-outs. They are over on the left side of the rear, below the other pre-outs. (See diagram on the left side of Page 24.)

Use audio RCA cables to feed the Zone 3 output to a Line/aux input of your other amplifer. I believe you need to use the line input, since Zone 3 is a constant level output. Meaning that the 3806 does not do volume control on that output. Rather, you will use the volume control of the alternate amplifier. This is why you go feed it in via a line/aux input.

Anyway, that is how I understand it should work. Have not tried it myself.

Good luck.

Greg

I have read the suggested pages and am no closer to working it out.
I have succesfully enabled Zone 2 by connecting its speakers to Surround Back on the back of the amp and then going to Option Setup-power Amp Assign-S. Back- Zone2. This tells the amp that Zone 2 is using Surround Back speakers.
I cannot work out how to tell it that Surround B is Zone 3.
Can someone confirm exactly how to connect a separate amp as a preout for Zone 3. It is possible I havent done this properly.

Dave

Dimmy_mkII

11-27-05, 04:24 AM

Thanks for the reply, can you suggest how I should configure my 3806 to enable me to have :
5.1 in main room (Left, Centre, Right, Left Rear, Right Rear, SW)
pair of speakers in Zone 2
pair of speakers in Zone 3

Please be specific about which terminals to connect which speakers to and any config settings that I need to set, as well as where to connect the external amp to drive Zone 3

Dave

You assign the surround back speakers to zone 2 duties, keep your 5.1 setup as is.

Connect the surround back speaker terminals to your zone 2 speakers directly.

Zone 3 only outputs at line level so you will need to run a pair of Phono cables from the Zone 3 output of your 3806 into a separate stereo amplifier (not a poweramp, it must have volume control).

mooneydriver

11-27-05, 01:00 PM

I have a question about 720p vs 1080i I am hoping somebody can help me with. Which one is preferred/recommended?

Here's my setup:
DVD player: Denon 1920 (Supports 1080i/720p/others)
Receiver: Denon 3806S (Supports 1080i/720p/others)
HDTV: HP PLN4200 (Supports 1080i/720p/others)

The devices are connected via HDMI (one HDMI cable between the DVD and the Receiver, one HDMI cable between the Receiver and the HDTV). Should I set the DVD to output 1080i or 720p? Which selection will provide the best picture quality?

The answer depends on the capabilities of the video processor in your plasma TV. I would try 1080i, 720p, and 480p and see which one gives you the most satisfying picture. In my case, it's a toss-up between 480p and 720p (Pioneer 5th gen plasma).

globulo

11-27-05, 06:01 PM

Sorry to go back to a previous subject, but I would like to know if there is something wrong with my Denon.

Here is my setup:

Denon 3806
Denon 2910 DVD
Motorola Comcast HDTV BOX
Definitive Mythos two, three (center) and Gems with Supercube I

As many have said, the auto eq setup sounds like someone is speaking from inside a bottle. Changing to "front" is better and maybe no EQ is better than Front.

However: The settings for my center channel after auto setup are SO low, I can't get a word of what is being said. (FL and FR are +3.5, and C is -0.5). I have checked with a an analog SLM and all levels are the same like this, but I still CAN'T UNDERSTAND DIALOGUE IN MOVIES OR TV!!

So, I have turned C channel up to +3.5, and it I can actually understand what is being said. Is this wrong or not recommendable from an acoustics perspective?

Another issue I have, is that I feel a certain lack of subwoofer "oooooomph". Is this only meant to happen at higher levels?? (I tipically listen at -27 db or so)

Any suggestions welcome. Thanks guys!

brandon123

11-28-05, 01:44 PM

Hi, I have not setup my speakers, I am waiting on my receiver. I think I might go with the Yamaha 2600 or Denon 3806???? I can;t make up my mind!

sgtschultz

11-28-05, 10:28 PM

sgtschultz

11-28-05, 10:36 PM

rgoel

11-29-05, 01:11 AM

I cannot get the HDMI to work for video only. So I am using component for the video, and optical for audio as you suggest.

Interesting that HDMI for video works for you and not for me.

aamsergie

11-29-05, 07:11 AM

I just read in the Yamaha thread that Yam has a problem where it wants to convert HD signals down to 480i. NOT GOOD. Denon looks better. Also why not Sony ES? The STR-DA3000ES, 5000ES, 2000ES etc look really good!

Do not buy any products from sony in their ES line. I got the 7100 ES - too many problems to list... Go with the Denon, less power but all the options work.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589683

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=581066

ikeb

11-29-05, 01:17 PM

I had a 5000es and it was not very good - sold it on ebay and bought a denon 4806. Still have a 2000es in my bedroom and am going to move it to my office and replace it with a denon 3806. Sony just doesn't make good stuff anymore - I was very disapointed in the sony quality and the sound. The denon 4806 is great and i anticipate that the 3806 will be excellent also.

tucson_bill

11-29-05, 02:46 PM

Zone 3 only outputs at line level so you will need to run a pair of Phono cables from the Zone 3 output of your 3806 into a separate stereo amplifier (not a poweramp, it must have volume control).According to my book the output volume is adjustable. Isn't that kind of a preamp function, after all?

ezervoud

11-30-05, 09:35 AM

This is my first post on this forum, and first of all, I think it is great!
I received my 3806 last night and I was trying to set it up, up until 2:00am with some success.
I have a pair of Bose 901 VI with their active subwoofer and while it was a no brainer to set those with my Yamaha now I'm kind of lost. I used the Tape Deck Input/Output jacks and connected my Tape deck on the equalizer but I'm wondering if that setup benefits the rest of my components or only the tape deck. Does anybody know what would be the best way to set it up? TIA

pyrodex

11-30-05, 10:27 AM

I am considering the 3806 and everything seems great. I don't currently have a HDMI TV yet and that is planned next year but I was going to get a new receiver with HDMI to replace my Pioneer. I did want a XM receiver with HDMI and this one fits all my needs. However I have one question, I am not sure if this thing has On Screen Display but if it does, does the XM information (station, song, artist) display on the OSD if possible versus the receiver's tiny LCD?

Johnla

11-30-05, 01:26 PM

I have a pair of Bose 901 VI with their active subwoofer and while it was a no brainer to set those with my Yamaha now I'm kind of lost. I used the Tape Deck Input/Output jacks and connected my Tape deck on the equalizer but I'm wondering if that setup benefits the rest of my components or only the tape deck. Does anybody know what would be the best way to set it up? TIA

I'm pretty sure that without having a tape monitor in/out "loop", that you can not use the 901's, because they must be used with their supplied equalizer.

Dimmy_mkII

11-30-05, 01:28 PM

According to my book the output volume is adjustable. Isn't that kind of a preamp function, after all?

Is that for the RCA outputs or when you assign the surround back to Zone 3?

qber

11-30-05, 03:44 PM

Could someone please tell me if the 3806 is capable of sending Audio via the HDMI cable to my TV? If so, how?

Nathan_R

11-30-05, 07:58 PM

Dammit, this box keeps getting worse and worse. In addition to the HDMI/DVI repeater problems with the Motorola 6412, the 3806 cannot pass D-Theater from a JVC 5u to my HDCP-compliant Mits 52628.

I'm starting to seriously doubt if Denon tested the hdmi-switching with anything other than their own hdmi-equipped dvd players.

Grrr.

gfbuchanan

11-30-05, 08:20 PM

According to the diagram in my book on Page 56, in the section on "Multi-zone playback using the ZONE2 and ZONE3 PREOUT terminals", it labels "ZONE2 AUDIO OUT (VARIABLE OUT)" and "ZONE3 AUDIO OUT (FIXED OUT)".

Also on page 24, in the section on "ZONE2 (or ZONE3) pre-out-connections" it says, "If another power amplifier or pre-main amplifier is connected, the ZONE2 pre-out (variable) and ZONE3 pre-out (fixed level) terminals ..."

So it seems that the manual says that ZONE3 is fixed level output. Now I have not tried it to see if the manual is wrong.

According to my book the output volume is adjustable. Isn't that kind of a preamp function, after all?

Greg

gfbuchanan

11-30-05, 08:22 PM

Don't know about the problem with the JVC 5u, but the problem with Motorola 6412 is known and it is a problem with the Motorola, not the 3806. The problem exists with other HDMI switching receivers. Motorola did not do a complete implementation of HDMI and it does not recognize or support intermediate switching devices.

Greg

Dammit, this box keeps getting worse and worse. In addition to the HDMI/DVI repeater problems with the Motorola 6412, the 3806 cannot pass D-Theater from a JVC 5u to my HDCP-compliant Mits 52628.

I'm starting to seriously doubt if Denon tested the hdmi-switching with anything other than their own hdmi-equipped dvd players.

Grrr.

mooneydriver

11-30-05, 10:39 PM

Could someone please tell me if the 3806 is capable of sending Audio via the HDMI cable to my TV? If so, how?
My understanding is that it should switch and pass any HDMI input audio to HDMI output. It would not transcode other kinds of audio input, say, optical or analog from a DVD player, to HDMI out. After all, this is a receiver designed to amplify and route audio to speakers and not to other external devices.

gfbuchanan

12-01-05, 12:34 AM

The problem with the HDMI connection is that it uses HDCP which requires a "secure" path from the source device to the display device. If you hook a STB directly to a TV, there are some handshakes that establish trust between the two devices. Once this trust is established the STB will start passing the video to the display (encrypted I believe). If it cannot establish the trust, it will not pass the signal.

The problem comes when you put the 3806 (or any switching receiver) into the path between the STB and the display. HDCP requires that the intermediate device also take part in the handshake. But this handshake is a little different than the one directly from the STB to the display. And this is the rub. The Motorola 6412 does not correctly implement the the handshake for intermediate devices. This is not the fault of the TV or of the receiver. It is the fault of the Motorola box. So until Motorola fixes their implementation of HDCP, it will not work through any receiver.

The DVD players from Denon and others expected to have a receiver between them and the display, so they correctly implemented the intermediate device handshake and they work correctly with the receiver.

And the Denon will modify the video signals from any of the input types to send it out over the HDMI. But it does not transcode. So Video and S-Video will be sent as 480i over the HDMI cable. Some TVs handle 480i over the HDMI, and some will not. Your mileage may vary.

Greg

My understanding is that it should switch and pass any HDMI input audio to HDMI output. It would not transcode other kinds of audio input, say, optical or analog from a DVD player, to HDMI out. After all, this is a receiver designed to amplify and route audio to speakers and not to other external devices.

eloser

12-01-05, 01:49 AM

The problem with the HDMI connection is that it uses HDCP which requires a "secure" path from the source device to the display device. If you hook a STB directly to a TV, there are some handshakes that establish trust between the two devices. Once this trust is established the STB will start passing the video to the display (encrypted I believe). If it cannot establish the trust, it will not pass the signal.

The problem comes when you put the 3806 (or any switching receiver) into the path between the STB and the display. HDCP requires that the intermediate device also take part in the handshake. But this handshake is a little different than the one directly from the STB to the display. And this is the rub. The Motorola 6412 does not correctly implement the the handshake for intermediate devices. This is not the fault of the TV or of the receiver. It is the fault of the Motorola box. So until Motorola fixes their implementation of HDCP, it will not work through any receiver.

The DVD players from Denon and others expected to have a receiver between them and the display, so they correctly implemented the intermediate device handshake and they work correctly with the receiver.

And the Denon will modify the video signals from any of the input types to send it out over the HDMI. But it does not transcode. So Video and S-Video will be sent as 480i over the HDMI cable. Some TVs handle 480i over the HDMI, and some will not. Your mileage may vary.

Greg

Has anyone had this same problem with the SA 8300HD?

ezervoud

12-01-05, 07:47 AM

I'm pretty sure that without having a tape monitor in/out "loop", that you can not use the 901's, because they must be used with their supplied equalizer.

Well, you can connect them in the in/out of the Tape but then I don't know if I get the equalization on my other units. The speakers are working but I feel like they don't get the equalized signal :(
On pg 25 of the US manual it says that there is a way to get output for the front speakers (and the back) for an external amplifier which is what I'm looking for, but I have to find the way of bringing the signal back in, as well

Nathan_R

12-01-05, 09:43 AM

Is anyone successfully using the 3806 to switch an HDMI source other than a Denon dvd player?

bnwbass

12-01-05, 01:29 PM

Nathan_R

I am switching two HDMI devices and have not experienced any problems. Oppo 971H upscaling DVD player and DISH DVR-942 HD recorder/receiver.

The 3806 as performed very well across the board. The audio quality is superb, I am pushing Velodyne, ADS, B&W and Boston speakers. My room sounds better than any movie theater in this town.

bnw

gfbuchanan

12-01-05, 01:54 PM

You are right, since the 3806 does not have a Tape Monitor function, you are not getting any equalization.

I have a pair of 901 Series 1 speakers (yeah the originals). Originally I had a Marantz 2270 receiver that had pre-out/main-in connections, and the equalizer worked great with that. Then I replaced it with a Sony receiver. Had to use the Tape Monitor function. Problem with that was that when the tape monitor was turned on, the dolby surround processing was disabled. So when I listened to music, I turned on the tape monitor to get the equalization, and when I watched movies, I turned it off.

I have recently replaced the Sony with the 3806 and am now waiting for my new Paradigm speakers to arrive.

The only way I can think of to use the Bose equalizer with the 3806 is to use a two channel amp for the two Bose speakers. For example if you wanted to use the Bose 901 as your front left and right speakers, you would run the pre-out for the Front Left/Right on the 3806 to the equalizer input, and the equalizer output to the input of the second amp. Then connect the Bose speakers to the second amp. This would give you equalization all the time.

Greg

Well, you can connect them in the in/out of the Tape but then I don't know if I get the equalization on my other units. The speakers are working but I feel like they don't get the equalized signal :(
On pg 25 of the US manual it says that there is a way to get output for the front speakers (and the back) for an external amplifier which is what I'm looking for, but I have to find the way of bringing the signal back in, as well

blacktiger

12-01-05, 04:27 PM

Has anyone tried the subwoofer mode "LFE+Main"?
I have a pair of Totem Hawk as fronts, and the "auto-detect" configures them to "LARGE". I am wondering if I should manually set them to SMALL or just use "LFE+Main" mode for the sub. My sub is SVS PB12-plus. Thanks.

bnwbass

12-01-05, 06:41 PM

blacktiger

I am using LFE+main with Velodyne sub and Front ADS CM-6 which are much smaller than Totem Hawk, however, I have then set to large LFE+main and the sound is very,very good, nice mid and low bass presence.

bnw

blacktiger

12-01-05, 07:23 PM

s2silber

12-01-05, 08:33 PM

When it comes to deciding whether to by-pass the frequency/crossover controls in the subwoofer, and letting the receiver/processor set the parameters, I wonder how many AVR-3806 owners do that, as opposed to calibrating the subwoofer, itself?
As for myself, I've found that I get much better bass -- though too much on some DVD-A's -- when I let the 3806 do all the LFE processing.

eee

12-01-05, 11:49 PM

I am using it with the Sony DVP-CX995V mega-disc player. No problems.

Swearengen

12-04-05, 05:46 PM

Hi!

For the first time today I connected my Denon DVD 3910 and AVR-3806. My firmware when I got the DVD-3910 wad 6609-B with DenonLink 3. I upgraded to the 6609-E regionfree firmware. But now when go into the 3910 setup, I see no DenonLink? Does the 6609-E firmware remove previous DenonLink?

Next problem, is I got HDMI connected from DVD to AVR-3806. Then I try to use that for audio instead of DenonLink. But no sound at all. Auto setup of speakers went fine and they produce sound alright. I have setup DVD 3910 to HDMI1 for both video and audio. I use Multichannel-normal (bitstream), not LPCM. On the AVR-3806 display it says: "DVD Ext-In" and I try to switch to Auto, Analog, DTS but no sound and then it keeps returning to "DVD Ext-In".

I'm completely in the dark and watching silent movies isn't that fun! Could anyone help?

Cheers
Flemming

BodegaBay

12-04-05, 06:41 PM

Is anyone successfully using the 3806 to switch an HDMI source other than a Denon dvd player?

I setup, tweaked, and listened to the 3806 to my system for many hours last night. I'd like to share some information and observations that might be helpful for people here:

HDMI VIDEO
- Hughes HR10-250 ("HD-Tivo"): HDMI Out to 3806 successfully passed through without signal ddegradation Note that I have one of the new builds purchased ~3+ months ago and it's HDMI output has been stellar vs. reported problems from earlier builds.
- Panasonic DVD-S97S (Upconvert DVD Player): HDMI Out to 3806 successfully passed through without signal degradation.
- NEC 50XR4 (50in Plasma Display): DVI/HDCP In from 3806's HDMI Out via HDMI-DVI cable passed through without signal degradation. STABLE.

HDMI AUDIO
- Hughes HR10-250: The 3806 was unable to receive any audio through HDMI. I'm not sure what HDMI version Hughes used for the HD-Tivo but I resorted using the optical output instead.
- Panasonic DVD-S97S: I was pleasantly surprised to see the Panasonic DVD player being able to send not only HDCP Video but also Digital Audio through HDMI. The Denon 3806 was able to decode Dolby Digital and DTS via the HDMI connection from the Panasonic (I chose DD and DTS to ouput bitstream via HDMI, not PCM in the Panny's setup menu) which eliminated any need for a dedicated digital out cable (Optical or Coaxial). I was unable to test DVD-Audio as I did not have any discs on hand. I've been dreaming of the day I would have only a power cable and one dedicated cable for A/V from component to component. It's here and I'm glad to eliminate the other multiple cables required in the past. Of note, I could not find any references from users reporting Digital Audio from their HDMI connections in either this thread or the Panasonic S97S thread. I didn't think digital audio was possible with HDMI ver. 1.1 (both units are 1.1 compliant) and had to wait for 1.2. If anyone else had success with this, I welcome your input.

HDMI OSD
- OSD worked flawlessly in the Setup and OSD Display menus through HDMI to my NEC display. The 3806 Master Volume OSD info does not work but I think that's because HDMI OSD overlay is not possible at this time with Denon. The Setup and OSD Display switches is actually a signal from the Analog Video Monitor Out transcoded to HDMI Out -- clever. This also eliminated an analog cable just for OSD that I had to use in the past.

ROOM EQ and SOUND QUALITY
- This is my 4th processor in 6 years. I started with Denon's AVR-3300 when the HT boom was gaining ground 6 yrs. ago and while it was good, it was thin and bright and I moved on. I then owned separates and swore by them through the Outlaw pre/pro + 5-ch. amp which gave way to the recent Integra Research RDC-7.1 + 7ch. amp. The Integra is a masterful pre-pro but I eventually moved on to simplifying my HT system. I was skeptical about giving AVRs a chance again but my dealer assured me the merits of the Denon. He was absolutely 100% correct. The 3806's Room Eq alone tamed my reflective room (untreated walls, wood floors, low 8ft. ceiling, etc) without the expensive acoustics treatment requirements. I placed the Mic in all 6 positions and chose the Audessey EQ setting (Flat yielded almost the same result, Front and None were horrible). I was in awe watching DVD movies and concerts last night. Simply amazing what Room Eq can do, at least for my situation. I was skeptical of this feature but it's very real and I'm a believer; this feature from Denon and Audessey is TOP NOTCH. Of note, I'm a 100% HT user so SQ from 2-ch does not concern me; for HT, the SQ with Room EQ is better than anything I experienced from the $4K Integra 7.1 + $2.5K 7ch amp.

4Ohm SPEAKERS
- I am demoing Vienna Acoustics Schonberg series for my L/C/R front stage with three rear on wall Boston Bravos. Yes front stage is more important to me vs. surrounds. The Viennas are 4Ohms with good sensitivity 91dB while the rear Bostons are 8Ohms. I listened with this system for 4hrs. straight at THX ref. level varying to -10dB from that point. The Denon never strained or clipped. It never shut down.

In all I'm amazed by what this mid-level AVR can do. I haven't been this satisfied with AV equipment in a long, long time.

ezervoud

12-05-05, 03:12 AM

gfbuchanan, first of all, thanks for your post. I did a lot of reading over the weekend and it's not exactly as you suggest and I thought. There is a "Tape Monitor" function only that it doesn't pass through digital signals. As a matter of fact the manual suggests to connect the digital sources in an analog way. If you are interested send me a pm and I will describe the way for you. I don't do it in the general thread since it seems to be a limited interest topic. Only, please know, that I haven't test it with that (dual) connection yet.

lizst

12-05-05, 09:40 AM

Hello, I currently have an avr-2803/dvd-2900 and am considering upgrading to a 3806/3910. I'd prefer to use Denon Link 3 for all audio types (PCM, DD, DTS, DVD-A, SACD) and HDMI for video via the 3806 to my projector. The 3806 manual leads me to beleive that using HDMI disables all other digital audio options (defaults to EXT. IN or analog 2 ch.), i.e. activating HDMI for dvd cancels Denonlink and visa versa. :(

Can any 3806/3910 users confirm this.
Thanks, Vince.

dedwards

12-05-05, 09:52 AM

Is anyone successfully using the 3806 to switch an HDMI source other than a Denon dvd player?

I'm switching between the 3910 dvd player and my htpc. Pc connection is via DVI-to-HDMI cable. Interestingly, the pc now detects its "display" as "Denon AVR". Output is to an AE-900 front projector. Everything works great - no problems.

DE

Stinky-Dinkins

12-05-05, 05:16 PM

I already posted this is another thread, I forgot to check this thread first. I've been reading some conflicting reports.

After quite a bit of research and a little saving I'm about to pull the trigger on a few things (TV, reciever, etc.)

I was wondering if there would be any noticeable signal degradation using the HDMI switching feature on the Denon 3806? Specifically would there be any noticeable visual difference between running the DVD player (Denon 3910) directly to the TV (Bravia V40XBR1 40" LCD) or hooking the DVD player up to the 3806 and connecting the receiver's HDMI out to the LCD?

Swearengen

12-05-05, 05:38 PM

I got my new system connected this weekend. Denon DVD-3910, Denon AVR-3806 and a 7.1 setup (B&W DM603, LCR600, 4xDS6 S3, ASW-600).

I have a dedicated HT room, carpet on the floor. I let the 3806 Auto Setup calibrate the room. 6 positions revolving around one listening position, just to test it. Both Audyssey and Flat sounded initially good, but fronts and center was way too highpitched, dialog almost only diskant no bass whatsoever and there was no umph punch in neither Return of the Sith nor LOTR. My old AVR-2803 and Denon DVD-2900 actually sounded better with same speakers.

Both fronts and center was picked as large. Subwoofer level was -6DB. Crossover on fronts 40hz, 60hz on center. When looking at the EQ for those speakers the frequencies from 63HZ to 500HZ was -3 to -7 for all.

What can I do? Shall I rule out Audyssey when it looks as if it works for so many?

gfbuchanan

12-05-05, 05:57 PM

HDMI is a purely digital signal. So either it works or it doesn't. Because it is digital, switching it through the 3806 should not result in any degredation of the signal. Besides that, several folks have reported testing it both ways and finding no difference.

Greg

I already posted this is another thread, I forgot to check this thread first. I've been reading some conflicting reports.

After quite a bit of research and a little saving I'm about to pull the trigger on a few things (TV, reciever, etc.)

I was wondering if there would be any noticeable signal degradation using the HDMI switching feature on the Denon 3806? Specifically would there be any noticeable visual difference between running the DVD player (Denon 3910) directly to the TV (Bravia V40XBR1 40" LCD) or hooking the DVD player up to the 3806 and connecting the receiver's HDMI out to the LCD?

s2silber

12-05-05, 08:28 PM

...I let the 3806 Auto Setup calibrate the room. 6 positions revolving around one listening position, just to test it. Both Audyssey and Flat sounded initially good, but fronts and center was way too high-pitched, dialog almost only distant no bass whatsoever and there was no umph punch in neither
What can I do? Shall I rule out Audyssey when it looks as if it works for so many?
I had a similar experience with the Audyssey settings seeming to squeeze the center channel's range and resulting in less bass overall and distant dialogue. I tend to use it when a few people are watching or listening from different room positions. Otherwise, I like "Flat" or "Front" best.

BodegaBay

12-06-05, 04:10 AM

...I was wondering if there would be any noticeable signal degradation using the HDMI switching feature on the Denon 3806? Specifically would there be any noticeable visual difference between running the DVD player (Denon 3910) directly to the TV (Bravia V40XBR1 40" LCD) or hooking the DVD player up to the 3806 and connecting the receiver's HDMI out to the LCD?

Like Greg said, HDMI is pure digital, just 1's and 0's bits of information passing through. There have been debates regarding high definititon video switching through component inputs and ouputs (even ones rated at 100Mhz +) but I've not yet read controversy involving HDMI video switching. HDMI is rated at Gbps and have plenty of bandwidth to spare. HDMI switching through the 3806 to my NEC 50in plasma was just fine and I've seen others with 100in+ FP screens without problems as well. You should not even worry about any problems with a 40in LCD. If you're paranoid about it then just use both of the

If you want to read the simple scoop on HDMI, read this FAQ (http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp).

Mike in Mass

12-06-05, 12:33 PM

I hooked up my 3806 yesterday and so far very pleased. The auto room eq worked very well and produced better results than the Yamaha 1400 it replaced.

I sucessfully connected a Denon DVD-1920 via HDMI - passing through both audio and video.

I tried connecting a Sammy TS360 via HDMI - nothing. I did go into the HDMI/video assign setup. But when selecting DBS, the screen is blank. No HDMI error messages.

So my question is: Is there anyway I can tell if this is an HDMI pass through issue or do I have something mis-configured?

Thanks

Ethan98TA

12-06-05, 12:57 PM

This is going to be a somewhat lengthy post, but please bear with me. Originally I had gone to Tweeter and bought a Denon AVR-3806. I got everything hooked up, it sounded GREAT... I was really impressed with the quality over my previous Sony unit (Sony DA50ES).

My current setup is as follows:
Denon AVR-3806
Samsung HLN617W (61" DLP w/ DVI input)
Denon DVD-1910 DVD Player (DVI Output)
Samsung DVD-HD931 DVD Player (DVI Output)
Scientific Atlanta 8300HD Cable Box (HDMI Output)
Xbox (Component Output)
PS2 (Component Output)

Ok so the idea was, I'd run an HDMI -> DVI output from the receiver to the TV. Then I'd run a DVI -> HDMI from the DVD to the receiver. Lastly, I wanted to run an HDMI -> HDMI from the cable box to the receiver. On the component devices, it's pretty self explanitory (component out to component in, out through HDMI).

Now... one thing I will say is that the picture quality is outstanding. It looks great just as if it was hooked up directly. I'll comment on the comparison between the Yamaha and the Denon shortly.

Here's what happens when I use the devices listed above:

Cable Box (from HDMI to HDMI on the receiver, to the HDMI -> DVI to the TV) - get a black screen and/or a box that says that HDCP is not enabled. When hooked up directly to the TV (HDMI -> DVI) it works great.

Samsung DVD Player (from DVI -> HDMI to the receiver, to the HDMI -> DVI to the TV) - the DVD player locks up completely (won't turn off/on, won't eject, load, etc).

Denon DVD Player - hooked up exactly as listed above, does exactly the same thing.

Both DVD players when hooked up directly work fine.

Now.... being that I was extremely frustrated with this, I went and took the Denon back in exchange for the Yamaha unit. Here's my thoughts on the Yamaha in comparison:

- Weak output compared to the Denon
- The picture was very soft - not crisp like the Denon
- The video upscaling looks like absolute crap, very noticeable with text
- A lot of the midrange is missing compared to the Denon
- Flaw when switching from one component input to another, it interlaces the picture VERY badly to the point that it's not viewable. Have to go into the menu then back out to reset it.

Obviously the Yamaha went right back to the store and I picked up another Denon. Now, all of that is fine and great; however, how in the hell do I get my stuff to work?? The guy at Tweeter told me that it was a known problem and that Denon was working to fix it.... but is this true? What's the solution???

margaretb

12-06-05, 03:25 PM

s2silber

12-06-05, 04:26 PM

Wow, that's a tall order and a mighty generous X-mas present. You've got your work cut out for you shopping for all this stuff, but I would start by pointing out that the video components don't absolutely have to all be switched through the AVR-3806 via HDMI. You can run the STB's HDMI directly to the TV, or you can run component video cables into the AVR and then out to the TV via HDMI. And even if you do want to send them all through the receiver, then into the TV via HDMI all the way, it may work despite the problems that some people have been having.
As for some of the components you've mentioned, the Denon AVR-3806 is an excellent receiver for sound quality and features and will handle SACDs and DVD-Audio recordings particularly well, especially since they can be played both digitally through Denon link with certain Denon DVD/CD players and via 5.1 channel analog audio. With the other igh quality prospective equipment you've described, I would say go up just a notch on the DVD player -- maybe the DVD 2910, which can be had for about $500, rather than the 1910.
As for the speakers, are you going to do a full home theatre set-up, including center channel, surrounds and a subwoofer? (Gonna' be expensive right from scratch). I've got the exact same measurements for my listening (family) room and I use Paradigm studio reference speakers. Check out their website. But there are alot of good speakers out there, depending how much you want to spend.
Finally, if he's enough of a music lover that he likes SACD recordings, you may want to get him involved in the shopping plans, rather than just surprise him with everything -- thrilling as that may be.

aamsergie

12-06-05, 06:22 PM

I want to purchase a surround sound system for my husband for x-mas but I know NOTHING about electronics. I just been reading threads to try to determine what would work best for my husband. I know my husband has super audio cd's which he would like to play. Currently we have an analog tv but will be upgrading to either the Sony 3LCD or Sony SXRD (not sure which - the SXRD is high $'s). So I would like to get the best for the least amount of money that would take full advantage of the upcoming tv. We also have comcast digital/hd dvr cable tv. I was thinking about the Denon universal player 1920 and denon AVR 3806, however, I saw previous threads about not connecting to the motorola dvr correctly. Also the AVR 3806 is high $ and if it's not compatible w/the motorola comcast receiver I"m not sure if it's worth spending the money. It looks like the universal player and receiver will cost me about $1500 +- and that's not including any speakers. We will be using this system for audio and video and plan on watching regular tv program with it as well (HBO shows on cable). Also I need to research speakers. My room is approx 15x21. Any suggestions? Thank you - your help will make my husband x-mas!!

As s2silber wrote, it is a very generous gift that you will be providing your husband. I've just gone through a very lengthy and arduous process - it took me over a year between choosing a TV, the components and all the little intricacies of home theater set up. Allow me to make you a checklist the biggest issues you need to tackle. First and foremost, if you are going to do this, go all the way and second - definitely include your husband. When making decisions involving thousands of dollars, one mind is not enough to think of all the what-if scenarios. Making these decisions together will definitely streamline the project and you can split up the research.

1. Make an ultimate budget. Think of it as, how much money would you be willing to tell a friend how much you spent on your project and not be embarrassed. Then subtact 10% for all the little surprise costs (trust me there are always surprises). That 90% should be CONCRETE and should be the most you are willing to spend on TVs, components, cables, furniture, speakers including tax and shipping.

2. Choose a TV. Of all the styles, lets go with a DLP, for the price/size ratio, DLPs are arguably the highest quality, largest size for the $$$. I would recommend getting one that is 720p - you probably won't need a 1080p and won't want a 1080i. For the sake of BREVITY, 720p should meet all your needs... The tv is probably the area where you can save the most money by shopping on the internet, you will pay shipping, but most likely no tax. Go scope out TVs at your local electronic stores and find the model you want. Then froogle it or buy from onecall.com - they have the best CS ever and you can bargain with them.

3. Choose Furniture to suit your TV. Internet, catalog, in-store are probably the way to go. TAKE MEASUREMENTS - DON"T BE SURPRISED.

4. Choose speakers. Now I was a novice at this during my setup, and still probably not at qualified as most. I needed a compact solution. I went with artison speaker towers - they have built in center channel in both towers so it saved me a whole speaker trying to find room for it. Tweeter is the only retailer that carries it. You'll pay about 10-15% more at tweeter for anything you buy there, but you have a place to return it rather than dealing with an internet site. For speakers, buying retail is probably the way to go, since you can hear them in the store.

5. Choose Components. DVD player, VCR, PS2 or XBOX 360, Receiver. The receiver should be the first choice since it is the point where everything will be piped into - video and audio. 3806 is fine and everything works great. Connecting your motorola dvr over HDMI will not work but that is not an issue with the 3806. There are numerous threads about that.... Just connect over component, it looks great and you will be done. DVD player should come next - if your husband likes SACD or DVD-A, get a Denon unit that upscales and it should connect fine over Denon link. The 3806 can't play SACD with other non-DENON units.

6. Buy an all in one remote. I have the Harmony 880. It's awesome. It's backlit, color screen, hooks up over computer and internet. Controls over 8 devices. Macro programming. It's really the easiest, cheapest and best for the time it takes to progam and money. I got it for $160 on Ebay.

7. Cables. Buy the least expensive cables possible. I know I will get burned here on this thread for it. If you are not running cables longer than 20-30 feet, buy the necessary cables off ebay and you will save a BOATLOAD of cash. I can't tell the diiference and probably neither will you. I know not a very scientific approach, but to save you time, reading and researching just go with ebay. As for speaker wire, get good quality cable from tweeter or wherever. For 100' you should pay less than $50 and be done. Don't buy monster cable.....

That's about it. There are alot of details not covered but you will discover them in the process. My biggest advice to you, is to question everything, if you don't understand, do some research before you make a purchase. Understand your system backwards and forwards. Someone will be manning the boards 24/7 if you have any questions.... Bonne Chance

Fishhooks

12-07-05, 04:39 AM

gfbuchanan

12-07-05, 01:16 PM

I have an annoying problem with my 3806 and wonder if anyone has an idea how to fix it. When I am watching an analog TV station, and switch to Picture-beside-Picture mode, the TV sound through the 3806 is killed. The only way to get it back is to tune the TV to a digital station, then back to an analog channel, or to switch the 3806 TV input mode to "analog" (from auto). Switching the TV back to single input mode does not fix the problem.

My Sony RPTV is connected to the 3806 via both the analog and optical cables. The 3806 TV input mode is set to "auto". Auto works fine when I tune through the stations, switching between digital and analog based on the TV channel being received. The problem only seems to happen when I turn on/off PIP while watching an analog channel. I am using Comcast cable, directly to the TV without a CC.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Greg

margaretb

12-07-05, 03:28 PM

Thanks for the info in regards to the denon products. I think for right now I'm going to purchase the denon universal player 1920 and in the future get the denon 3805 receiver (we have a receiver from 15 years ago that we currently use for audio that I found out has surround sound) and also use my 4 sony speakers (which doesn't have a center speaker or subwoofer) on a temporary basis until I become more familiar with speakers. Since I won't be spending $1500-2k on speakers and a receiver I can go get my toy (which is the tv - my husband could care less about that!). So thanks for the input! I really appreciate it. Have a wonderful holiday season!!!

CADCONV

12-07-05, 05:24 PM

Been installing base systems and a few high end systems for clients. Just picked up two 3806's. One for a client and the other for me ;) Self Christmas present. Looks like everyone is liking the receiver so far.

BTW, great advice on the setup aamsergie. I've worked on 1 - $200,000 setup but for most of my clients everything you listed (except for the speakers - we carry Elac's) is dead on for anyone. Some of our high end clients want the high dollar (and with the money they spend desire them) cables but the stock simple stuff works great. My personal house has a Mits DLP TV and I love it. Also love the DLP projectors.

Besides the cable box issues that I've seen on here, any other issues that I might be missing with the 3806?

Johnla

12-08-05, 01:05 AM

Now.... being that I was extremely frustrated with this, I went and took the Denon back in exchange for the Yamaha unit. Here's my thoughts on the Yamaha in comparison:

- Weak output compared to the Denon
- The picture was very soft - not crisp like the Denon
- The video upscaling looks like absolute crap, very noticeable with text
- A lot of the midrange is missing compared to the Denon
- Flaw when switching from one component input to another, it interlaces the picture VERY badly to the point that it's not viewable. Have to go into the menu then back out to reset it.

Ethan98TA:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man; It sounds as though Yamaha have got a WORLD-WIDE recall about to happen.

Hope you are really sure of your findings, as this will be the biggest thing since someone invented sliced bread!

Yeah that is pretty much the exact opposite of what Audioholics says about the RV-X2600. In fact they even gave it a product of the year award.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/2005productawards.php

"Award: A/V Receiver

Yamaha RX-V2600 A/V Receiver

We could not get away from the advances made this year in A/V receivers, and Yamaha didn't hold back as it upgraded its line and introduced its newest mid-fi receiver late into the model year. The RX-V2600 has all of the advancements of the more expensive RX-V4600 (minus IEEE1394) but with the most advanced HDMI feature set on the market including video processing and scaling of all video sources to HDMI with full OSD support (a feature even the AVR-5805 is waiting on). We currently have this unit under review and can tell you it is by far the hottest receiver in its price class. It's so hot that once it was announced the 2005 CEDIA Show, other leading receiver manufacturers were forced to revamp their competing receiver product lines in attempts to match its feature set. When paired with a solid 7CH amplifier such as the Emotiva MPS-1, it is capable of gunning down more costly dedicated separates solutions."

S1DIMMER

12-08-05, 12:04 PM

I was between the Denon AVR-3806 and the Yamaha RX-V2600. I went with the 2600 because of the upscaling ability at about the same price point as the 3806. I only hooked up the 2600 for a short time but I was very happy with the sound and I have some pretty old sony speakers. Looking at next year for a speaker upgrade. I think both receivers are good products but if you want the ability to upscale then the Yamaha is the reciever to get.

dlibby00

12-09-05, 12:20 AM

I've got the 3806 and have loved it so far.

Lately I've been noticing random burps (best way I could think of to describe it) coming from my Mirage sub. It was driving me nuts and after a bit of observation have noticed that it only occurs when my furnace is on and cranking (its been cold in Boston of late). My theory is that the furnace is generating noise in the electrical system which I'm hearing occasionally through the sub.

First of all, does this sound plausible?

Second, what's a good remedy? I'm thinking of a Monster Power station or something along those lines.

ezervoud

12-09-05, 04:30 AM

I own the 3806 for only a couple weeks now and love its clarity, breadth and of course the upscaling capabilities (European units, do upscale :) ). What I don't like, and frankly do not understand, is the inability to record from digital sources connected digitally.

My front speakers are a pair of Bose 901 VI, which in order to provide their true capabilities are escorted with an active equalizer. The latter has to be installed in the pre-out and come back through another input. The best way I have found is to connect it in the Tape in/out and through REC OUT mode to get the equalized signal.
Unfortunately, as the manual describes on pg 60 "Digital signals are not output from the analog REC OUT terminals" :(

If anyone can think of a remedy, you are more than welcome :)

S1DIMMER

12-09-05, 06:36 AM

Tom Grooms

12-09-05, 08:43 AM

If anyone can think of a remedy, you are more than welcome :)

I strongly recommend new loudspeakers.

ezervoud

12-09-05, 09:02 AM

I strongly recommend new loudspeakers.

Care for a justification? (Don't worry I wont get offended :) )

S1DIMMER

12-09-05, 10:26 AM

Care for a justification? (Don't worry I wont get offended :) )

Bose is a dirty word around here. Not for me personally, it's just a lot of people on this forum don't like Bose very much. I'm using 10+ year old Sony speakers myself. They work but aren't anything great. As $$$ allows, hopefully next year I'll be able to upgrade.

ezervoud

12-09-05, 10:42 AM

Bose is a dirty word around here. Not for me personally, it's just a lot of people on this forum don't like Bose very much. I'm using 10+ year old Sony speakers myself. They work but aren't anything great. As $$$ allows, hopefully next year I'll be able to upgrade.
I've seen the posts, too. It's Ok with me, looks like a religious war :) . As with yourself, I don't want to cash out a large chunk of money at once due to WAF :) . On our neck of the woods, the 3806 costs around $1600, which I understand is already significantly higher from the US market.

rolltide362

12-09-05, 10:48 AM

Just got my 3806 and took about an hour to catch up on this thread. Everything is working great. But I have a question regarding multi-room A/V Signals...

Question 1:
In the main room I am upconverting everything to the HDMI Monitor. In another room I have a second HDTV and would like to run a signal to it. Can I simply run Component + Audio to it from teh monitor out? I would test but it's mounted and I will need to buy about 30' of cable. So I would like to confirm before doing so. I just need the TV to repoduce what I am watching in the main room.

Question 2:
I have some speakers set up in a couple of different rooms that are connected to volume switches and the volume switches to a Russound Switcher. The source audio going to this switcher is coming from the "Surround Back". As I understand it this is supposed to provide amplified sound to these speakers. My problem is that you can barely hear sound. I have had this problem with other receivers running from it's "B" Source, but thought this receiver would do better. Do I have to get an amp? Hope not.

Thanks in advance!

Ryan

jlitvack

12-09-05, 11:47 AM

ezervoud

12-09-05, 11:53 AM

Apologies for posting this request in this thread but I wouldn't know where it would be more appropriate. I will be visiting the US, specifically LAS Vegas, next month on a business trip and, if possible, I would like to have a recommendation for a reliable discount store for audio/video equipment. If you feel that it's inappropriate to post here please send pm. TIA

s2silber

12-09-05, 03:20 PM

ezervoud

12-09-05, 03:34 PM

Are you looking for a retail dealer to visit locally in Las Vegas, or just a referral to a U.S. dealer anywhere?
I'm afraid I'm not gonna have time to visit NY, even though I would love to, so I'm looking for a local store in Las Vegas.

s2silber

12-09-05, 04:27 PM

I'm afraid I'm not gonna have time to visit NY, even though I would love to, so I'm looking for a local store in Las Vegas.
Better go before you hit the casinos :D

ezervoud

12-09-05, 04:45 PM

Better go before you hit the casinos :D
I'll try to stay clear from the sirens :D
s2silber, what you had in mind a post back was a mail in order?

s2silber

12-09-05, 05:43 PM

ezervoud

12-09-05, 05:56 PM

Internet sites, actually. There are any number of good ones, but not all ship internationally. One that does, I know is J&R in NYC (http://www.jr.com). They have all the usual consumer stuff and a pretty good assortment of high-end components, too, including Denon.
I've been there at J&R several times while living in NY, thus I've checked their website but they don't seem to carry, say the 3910. Perhaps, they simply don't list it on their site? Could be. I don't mind shipping internationally since I'll be for a few days in Las Vegas (would they ship at a hotel address? doubt it).
While on the subject, I checked 3910's manual and it is listed only at 120V/60Hz :( .
I believe that since there is a motor involved I should opt for 50/60 Hz, otherwise, I believe I'll get noise. Any ideas?

Malik1

12-10-05, 01:12 PM

I am at my patience end with the 3806. I am on my second 3806. I still have problems with it. Both receivers acted flawless for a couple days then it goes to hell. I am considering sending it back to to get the Yamaha. I love the denon sound but I can not ignore the problems with this brand. I also am on my second 2910 I have HDMI issues with that as well. I almost want to give up on HDMI all together. Aside from HDMI the gear is good. In my case I specifically bought this gear for HDMI switching. Please give me some direction if you have had similiar difficulties.

s2silber

12-10-05, 06:40 PM

Malik1, please be more specific about the problems you're having.

Swearengen

12-10-05, 06:50 PM

It seems as if I have gotten the 3806 to calibrate to my taste. I made an error, clearly, with my first auto setup. I had my Z4 running at the time and the background sound ruins it. Now I made an auto setup in a sound proof room, just one iteration.

Front and center recognized as "large". Sub does "LFE". The Audyssey and flat, sounds much better now. Much better than front and manual. Except two things.

1.
The center channel is still flawed. Very light, no bass at all, just too thin.

2.
1. st. setup run returned with an "out of phase error" on my surround speakers. Well, I got B&W dipole speakers. I tried setting them as monopole, making it easier for the 3806 to setup. And it did.

Listening to "Return of the Sith" was much better, though the center channel irritated me and not enough uooomph on surround and rear speakers as reviews actually stated. I switched to "manual setup", copied the "flat" setup as basic settings (why can't I copy Audyssey settings and manipulate them in manual?!?!?). Then I went to mess with the EQ settings. I watched all speakers EQ settings in the lower hz regions 63/250/500. And the center was totally out of sync. I notched it upwards in these 3 regions, overall the same values as the fronts and there it was. That was the missing link. Gone was the original sound invented by Edison 120 years ago, now with regular present day sound packing. Thank you!

Now, the surround and rears. I guess monopole setting is easier to spot because of it's way of directing sound, while bipole makes sound difficult to pinpoint. Since the auto setup was done with monopole on and I wanted bipole on all 4 speakers, I guessed I had to crank them up to get my preferred listening experience. I started with 2db on each speaker and ended with 4db. Quite a bit, but boy, is it way way enjoyable now. And no. I'm actually not a surround freak and I don't like it when the sound from the rear and sides, dominates, but I think I stroke just the right middleway.

I tested with "Return of the Sith", Titanic DTS 6.1 ES, LOTR DTS 6.1 ES and the new Serenity and it was just SO much better than the initial Audyssey experience. The DTS track on Titanic is reference, the "machineroom" scenes made a buttkicker unneccesary. A shame I can't copy my Audyssey setting and mess with them in the manual setup. The Audyssey is so close to perfection, but still remains useless for me, because I can't manually tweak the 63/250/500hz in the center channel, only in flat mode. A real shame, but I'm quite happy with my own calibration though and the sound IS awesome.

Malik1

12-11-05, 06:28 AM

Malik1, please be more specific about the problems you're having.
s2silber the problems I had with my first 3806 was the HDMI inputs went bad on me. Iworked flawlessly for a few hours then nothing HDMI worked. I went through the set up swapped cables and the whole nine. I exchanged that one for a new one. Now with the new 3806 again worked flawlessly for about a week. Now it will not display the on screen set up through HDMI. I can be watching a program through HDMI and press the setup button and I will get a black screen with no text I get some flashes. It is like it is trying to do it. I have gone through the video setup to ensure it is not a set up issue. I have also reset the receiver to start fresh and still no dice. I have to go through component to display it. It is a minor problem compared to the last 3806. I am just not satisfied with paying 100% for a product and getting 90%. Any direction you have will be appreciated. Thanx

s2silber

12-11-05, 10:17 AM

I had the same problem of no on-screen display of the set-up menu, even when running an S-Video cable directly from monitor out to the TV. I also couldn't get anything from the HDMI switching. I exchanged my first unit for a new one and now the only problem I have a couple of months later is that it won't switch HDMI video from my HR10-250 DirecTV HD Tivo out to my TV. (I have to run component video in and HDMI out.) But that's a problem that Denon blames on all the STB makers. That may be the case, but something tells me they could have done a little more testing and fixing before releasing the model.
Anyway, I decided to stick with the Denon AVR-3806 because the audio is so superb and because I'm hoping that the next generation of STBs will work with it. You're correct though, that consumers shouldn't have to pay this kind of money for a product that doesn't do all it's supposed to do.

rgoel

12-11-05, 03:35 PM

My cable company just called and told me they received a new motorola cable HD box that has HDMI out rather the DVI. My previous DCT6412 had only DVI out and I knew it would not work with the 3806.

I am not sure of the model number.

Does anyone know if this new box will solve the problems with the 3806?

I have this newer DCT6412 with HDMI output, and it still would not work with my Denon 3806. I believe, but have no basis for this evaluation, that it is the same software implementation of HDCP on the DCT6412 that is causing the problem.

ksh

12-11-05, 05:52 PM

I have the Comcast HD DVR Box and was considering the 3806. Are they completely incompatible or will they work together?

gfbuchanan

12-11-05, 08:51 PM

I have the Comcast HD DVR Box and was considering the 3806. Are they completely incompatible or will they work together?

From reading various threads, the 6412 will not work with ANY HDMI switching receiver. This is not a problem with the 3806. It doesn't work with the Yamaha RX-V2600 either. (Check out their thread.)

However, you can certainly use the component output of the 6412 to the 3806, and HDMI from the 3806 to the TV. This works just fine. The only downside of this is that you have to connect the audio output from the 6412 to the receiver.

Greg

ksh

12-11-05, 10:39 PM

Greg, thanks for the feedback. So in your opinion if the Comcast box won't accept any HDMI switching receiver then will I be as good off with the Denon 3805 as I would be with the Denon 3806?

Johnla

12-12-05, 12:43 PM

The 3806 also offers some other things beside just the addition of HDMI switching over the 3805. So make sure some of the other features of the newer 3806 are also not important to you, before chosing a 3805 over a 3806.

gfbuchanan

12-12-05, 02:09 PM

I don't currently have any HDMI sources. So I went through the same question, 3805 or 3806? I finally came down on the 3806 because it has the new audigy equalization. And I was able to find a local retailer that sold it to me below MSRP, so the difference in price was only a couple hundred. But it is a close call. You have to consider if you will be getting some HDMI sources that will work in the future. And then decide if the difference in price is worth forgoing the features you might use. That is a personal decision that only you can make.

Greg

Greg, thanks for the feedback. So in your opinion if the Comcast box won't accept any HDMI switching receiver then will I be as good off with the Denon 3805 as I would be with the Denon 3806?

tucson_bill

12-12-05, 02:26 PM

So it seems that the manual says that ZONE3 is fixed level output. Now I have not tried it to see if the manual is wrong. GregI believe you read the manual correctly. I've been away awhile and cannot now account for the source of my post. Sloppy reading it would appear. Thanks for correcting me. I don't post a lot and it sure doesn't help if what I post is wrong.

rolltide362

12-12-05, 02:34 PM

THis is one busy thread. Here is my request again as it is getting lost in the shuffle....

New 3806, multi room question
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just got my 3806 and took about an hour to catch up on this thread. Everything is working great. But I have a question regarding multi-room A/V Signals...

Question 1:
In the main room I am upconverting everything to the HDMI Monitor. In another room I have a second HDTV and would like to run a signal to it. Can I simply run Component + Audio to it from the monitor out? I would test but it's mounted and I will need to buy about 30' of cable. So I would like to confirm before doing so. I just need the TV to repoduce what I am watching in the main room.

Question 2:
I have some speakers set up in a couple of different rooms that are connected to volume switches and the volume switches to a Russound Switcher. The source audio going to this switcher is coming from the "Surround Back". As I understand it this is supposed to provide amplified sound to these speakers. My problem is that you can barely hear sound. I have had this problem with other receivers running from it's "B" Source, but thought this receiver would do better. Do I have to get an amp? Hope not.

Thanks in advance!

Ryan

jvrobert

12-12-05, 03:03 PM

My cable company just called and told me they received a new motorola cable HD box that has HDMI out rather the DVI. My previous DCT6412 had only DVI out and I knew it would not work with the 3806.

I am not sure of the model number.

Does anyone know if this new box will solve the problems with the 3806?

DVI definitely works with the 3806, at least from some devices. I have my HTPC going through the Denon 3806 via a DVI-HDMI cable, and it works fine.

gfbuchanan

12-12-05, 03:59 PM

DVI and HDMI will switch through the 3806, BUT (and it is a big BUT) not all source devices will correctly handshake through any switching receiver. In particular the Motorola 6412 and the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD are known to NOT WORK when connected through ANY HDMI switching receiver.

Greg

My cable company just called and told me they received a new motorola cable HD box that has HDMI out rather the DVI. My previous DCT6412 had only DVI out and I knew it would not work with the 3806.

I am not sure of the model number.

Does anyone know if this new box will solve the problems with the 3806?

gfbuchanan

12-12-05, 04:09 PM

Your first question is "does it output signals on both Component and HDMI simultaniously?" I haven't tried and so I cannot answer that. But you could try hooking up both types to your convient TV, put it in PIP mode and see if you are getting signals on both.

For question 2, if you were having problems with other amps, my guess is there is a lot of attenuation in your hookup for the other speakers. Things to try:

Hook your front main speaker outputs to the remote rooms and try that. Get good volume? If not, then you have wiring / setup problems with the way you distribute the sound to the remote rooms.

Get good sound? Then hook the remote speakers back up to the Surround Back speaker outputs. Make sure you have set the 3806 to assign the Surround Back as Zone2. Then use the 3806 remote to turn on and adjust the volume of zone 2.

Greg

THis is one busy thread. Here is my request again as it is getting lost in the shuffle....

New 3806, multi room question
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Question 1:
In the main room I am upconverting everything to the HDMI Monitor. In another room I have a second HDTV and would like to run a signal to it. Can I simply run Component + Audio to it from the monitor out? I would test but it's mounted and I will need to buy about 30' of cable. So I would like to confirm before doing so. I just need the TV to repoduce what I am watching in the main room.

Question 2:
I have some speakers set up in a couple of different rooms that are connected to volume switches and the volume switches to a Russound Switcher. The source audio going to this switcher is coming from the "Surround Back". As I understand it this is supposed to provide amplified sound to these speakers. My problem is that you can barely hear sound. I have had this problem with other receivers running from it's "B" Source, but thought this receiver would do better. Do I have to get an amp? Hope not.

Thanks in advance!

Ryan

rolltide362

12-12-05, 04:21 PM

gfbuchanan, thanks for the suggestions and I will try both and see what happens!

Ryan

datamage

12-12-05, 07:30 PM

Finally got caught up on this thread.

I decided to plunk down the money on the 3806 after trying out the HK 240. Definitely a lot more things to configure on the Denon. Anyhow, I have a couple of questions..

I'm using EXT IN from my PC so I can get 5.1 sound (the X-Fi doesn't transmit 5.1 through coas/toslink) -- I decided to run a coax out as well, so when I'm listening to audio from the PC I can have EQ settings/DPLII etc. (Since you can't do the same with EXT IN)

My problem is, the sub isn't producing anything with the coax connection, but is working just fine when I switch the input to the EXT IN. I've already gone through the options, and the subwoofer is turned on even in 2ch/stereo mode. Now, I tried what someone else on here suggested, and that is, going through the CH Select, and raising the sub levels. This seems to work somewhat better, but let's say I raise the sub level to +10, when I switch to other inputs (DVD/VCR1/VCR2/etc) it keeps the sub level @ + 10... I obviously don't want that.

Isn't the Denon supposed to keep different settings for the different inputs?

Lastly, I'm not too impressed with Audyssey EQ, perhaps I didn't do something right. During the auto-setup, I kept the mic in the same place during all the tests. I have a relatively small room, and I won't be using different listening locations.. (unless I misunderstood what that meant.)

Great receiver so far, and a ton of things to mess around with. This post turned out a little longer than I planned, thanks for any help. :)

- D.

datamage

12-13-05, 03:30 AM

Alright, I read the manual a little more thoroughly, and I understand the purpose of the Audyssey EQ and multiple listening locations.

Now, there's still something that bugs me. For example, when I have DPLII selected (for my PS2) I set the output of the sub a little higher, otherwise I don't hear the sub doing much. Problem being, when I go play a DVD in DD or DTS, it retains the +dB that I set for the sub in DPLII. Now I go into the surround menu and lower the LFE output to offset the extra output I used in the CH Select. Does this sound right?

One last thing (for now ;) ) On my previous receiver (~3-4yr old Yamaha) I never messed around with the subwoofer levels and my PS2 always made my sub kick. Why is it that on the Denon, I actually have to boost the level of the sub to get the same effect? Mind you, I didn't know much about levels, calibrations, etc. back then. Just curious.

- D.

Mike in Mass

12-13-05, 08:37 AM

s2silber

12-13-05, 09:02 AM

Now, there's still something that bugs me. For example, when I have DPLII selected (for my PS2) I set the output of the sub a little higher, otherwise I don't hear the sub doing much. Problem being, when I go play a DVD in DD or DTS, it retains the +dB that I set for the sub in DPLII. Now I go into the surround menu and lower the LFE output to offset the extra output I used in the CH Select. Does this sound right?

One last thing (for now ;) ) On my previous receiver (~3-4yr old Yamaha) I never messed around with the subwoofer levels and my PS2 always made my sub kick. Why is it that on the Denon, I actually have to boost the level of the sub to get the same effect? Mind you, I didn't know much about levels, calibrations, etc. back then. Just curious.

- D.
Do you find all this happening when you've got the RoomEQ set to "Off" as well?

datamage

12-13-05, 11:51 AM

Do you find all this happening when you've got the RoomEQ set to "Off" as well?

Yes, I'm not using any EQ for any input right now.

- D.

spinee

12-13-05, 12:20 PM

after a weekend pulling cables and mis-assigning digital inputs, i finally got everything hooked up to my 3806...i thought. to test out the OUT connections to my MD recorder (hooked up via optical) i selected the Tuner, hit RECORD and waited. nothing. in fact, the MD told me that there was no signal on the cable. okay, so i hooked up the analog to the MD and tried again: everything was fine.

just to make sure the optical connection was okay, i selected my mac (also on optical) as the source and recording via digital worked fine.

what th'? am i right in assuming that everything is taken into the digital domain for processing (except when using Direct)? if so, then why no signal on the digital out from an analog source?

i guess it kind of makes sense, since it might be hard for the receiver to decide just where the 0dB level should lie for any given analog source. but then...wouldn't you think you could take things the other way? the optical inputs obviously have to be converted to analog at some point, or i wouldn't be listening to music right now. but the manual plainly states:

"If you wish to perform analog dubbing from a digital source...you will need to connect the analog inputs and outputs...in addition to the digital audio connections."

i see the same limitation seems to exist for the 4306 & 4806, though the 5805 seems to do D/A conversion for recording to analog. is there a real expense related to this capability, or is this just denon's way of convincing me that i should pay the additional $4700?

rgoel

12-13-05, 01:04 PM

I've got my TS360 Sat Box connected to the 3806 via component and then HDMI to the TV. About half the time when I call up the program guide on D* or switch channels the screen goes black for about 4 seconds - as if something is trying to resync. Doesn't always happen.

Any ideas on why this might be happening? Is there a preferred setting for the video signal coming from the TS360? Is it becauses I'm not feeding the 3806 the "preferred" signal?

Thanks

Mike

Mike, I have found the same issue using Comcast STB. I find that this happens when the signal type is changed from an HD channel to an SD channel or vicea versa. This does not happen when going from one SD channel to another SD channel, or from one HD channel to another HD channel. I have no idea if there is a display setting that can be changed to eliminate this, or why the delay occurs, but I have realized that it only occurs on my setup when going from one channel type to another.

marlonm

12-13-05, 10:33 PM

I just purchased my 3806 and am having difficulty getting a basic set-up to work. I have an HDMI cable from the 3806 to my Vizio plasma TV. I have 2 HDMI inputs to the 3806 - My cable receiver (DVI with HDMI adapter plug) and an LG DVD player. I can get no sound or TV picture. Prior to adding the 3806 I had the cable box connected to the TV and it was working fine. I went through the auto setup with the microphone and got sounds from the speakers so I know the speakers are working. I setup the HDMI assign channels on the menu and still nothing!?! Is there an incompatibility with the cable box?? Shouldn't I still get sound from the DVD player? I also get no FM sound from the 3806. Any thoughts???

CADCONV

12-13-05, 11:01 PM

Welcome to AVSForum.

The HDMI carries the sound with it. However, since I don't have my rx in yet, I'm just guessing at this but I would think you need to tell the rx what sound "input" goes with "HDMI" input. So if you have the digital sound feeding from input 1 and the video from HDMI 1 then link these together in setup.

Clear as mud?

gfbuchanan

12-14-05, 01:50 AM

First, DVI does not carry audio. A DVI video signal can be fed into an HDMI device with a cable adaptor. But that does not provide the audio signals. So you will need to connect audio cables from your STB to your 3806. This could be either Coax or TOS. Lacking that, you will have to use the Stereo outputs on the STB.

Second, many cable STB do not play correctly with HDMI switching devices. If that is the case with your STB, you will need to use the component video feeds from the STB to the 3806. You can still use the HDMI cable from the 3806 to the TV, but will need to enable video conversion for the HDMI on the 3806. Also, you need to go through the 3806 setup screens and assign the various inputs. Assign the coax/TOS port you plug the STB into to the TV/DBS input. Also assign the component input you use to TV/DBS. It should then switch to the TV correctly.

Greg

I just purchased my 3806 and am having difficulty getting a basic set-up to work. I have an HDMI cable from the 3806 to my Vizio plasma TV. I have 2 HDMI inputs to the 3806 - My cable receiver (DVI with HDMI adapter plug) and an LG DVD player. I can get no sound or TV picture. Prior to adding the 3806 I had the cable box connected to the TV and it was working fine. I went through the auto setup with the microphone and got sounds from the speakers so I know the speakers are working. I setup the HDMI assign channels on the menu and still nothing!?! Is there an incompatibility with the cable box?? Shouldn't I still get sound from the DVD player? I also get no FM sound from the 3806. Any thoughts???