OK. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread so here I go. This input is going to overlap several other threads and tick some people off, but I see no way around it. FiOS is a 'system' and not just a 'cable line'. I will keep it short. :D

1. What TivoHD-DVR problems? I have a Series-3 TivoHD-DVR and it is working perfectly and as advertised. A perfect complement to my FiOS-TV package.

2. FiOS System (TV/Internet/Phone) Advantage: Now that I have a Tivo connected to my integrated FiOS system, I am watching DVD recordings downloaded from the Amazon.com Unbox. Last night I downloaded a 155 minute movie thru my FiOS 30/5 internet line to my home Tivo via a wireless adapter in just 9 minutes. Watched the movie on my home theater. Great!Jay_Davis was probably referring the intermittent pixelization seen on the TivoHD with FiOS. This random pixelization occurs anywhere from 0-10 times per hour; it lasts a fraction of a second and does not appear to be signal related, because when I rewind / replay, I don't see the pixelization in the same place.

This issue does not affect the Tivo Series3, which uses different hardware and different drivers. It only affects the new TivoHD, which uses a new hardware design and relatively new drivers that still have a few kinks.

Tivo released its second software update for the TivoHD tonight. I've only had it installed for 20 minutes, so it is a bit premature to comment, but the update does appear to fix that 'intermittent pixelization' problem. More viewing will be required before I can be certain.

Possibly so. But I can assure you that a tiny portion of FiOS subs are AVS forum members. Truly, most people were happy with it before and are happy with it now.

I'm not so sure. The other four people in my household unanimously panned the new IMG, and I didn't prompt them at all (and we don't even have any DVRs). Their criticisms: Favorites is harder to access, always resets to channel 9, and includes the duplicate networks from the 500s; you can't scroll the lower-third guide anymore; and loss of the Reminder function. I don't think any of these criticisms take an "AVS acumen" to spot. This was bungled from the get-go, and Verizon probably should've halted and fixed it rather than charged forward with a sub-par upgrade.

Moreover, on a personal note, I think Verizon should be chided for focusing on this stupid IMG business when most of the other providers are focusing on something more significant (particularly to the AVS crowd): HD plans. Honestly, who gives a damn about the IMG? When it's bad, people complain, but even when it's good the best you can get is that people don't really notice it. No one is going to switch to Verizon because of the new colorful IMG, or tout the "cool IMG" as a reason to switch to Verizon.

This is not to say that the IMG is a total blunder. It does a better job of cataloging some elements of programming, like start and stop time, HD, CC, and parental ratings. I also like the new feature where it marks how long the current program has been running with a DVR-like progress bar. Honestly, I like how it scrolls and I like the transparent overlay menu (but I wish I could set that as the default instead of the full guide with the PIP video box). Some things are good, but most important things are worse, and Verizon could have avoided most all of this hassle with a little better planning and a little better PR management (that is, less pointless hyping of the IMG).

Jay_Davis was probably referring the intermittent pixelization seen on the TivoHD with FiOS. This random pixelization occurs anywhere from 0-10 times per hour; it lasts a fraction of a second and does not appear to be signal related, because when I rewind / replay, I don't see the pixelization in the same place.

This issue does not affect the Tivo Series3, which uses different hardware and different drivers. It only affects the new TivoHD, which uses a new hardware design and relatively new drivers that still have a few kinks.

Tivo released its second software update for the TivoHD tonight. I've only had it installed for 20 minutes, so it is a bit premature to comment, but the update does appear to fix that 'intermittent pixelization' problem. More viewing will be required before I can be certain.

Thank you for the clarification. :)

For those who wish to report problems with the new guide -

please call 1-888-811-1371


There is no hold time and the more calls they receive about problems (like not being able to delete a recording once you've watched it) the quicker they will respond with a fix.

I like the look of the new guide but am upset about lost functions. I don't understand why they did not add an option to "save all shows" for season passes (the max now is 5). I called this number to register a complaint about the wacky delete process.

I also complained about a new problem I suspect (but can't prove) was caused by the IMG software upgrade. One of my programs in Series manager inexplicably missed an episode tonight. It has successfully recorded prior episodes, and the next one is on the schedule. But tonight's episode - not recorded.

No other explanation I can see - plenty of hard drive space, less than the 5 eppie limit - I think the software just screwed up. I've recorded tons of shows in SM under the old software with nary a hitch.

Anyone else see this?

I'm not so sure. ... PR management (that is, less pointless hyping of the IMG).

I agree that they should have taken this through a good beta test program (Centercode does a great job of doing such betas). The issue is that the old system was developed by someone else and Verizon did a complete rewrite. Things don't always work at first but with the IMG 2.0 Verizon can roll out weekly patches and as I have watched the threads, some problems have been fixed. I also agree that more HD channels should be a priority but that is a different department and they can do things in parallel. I for one found the existing UI awkward and press the skip button, wait 3-5 seconds to see if it took was terrible. Thing is keep telling them what is wrong and they will get it right some day (hopefully before a pass away)!

I agree that they should have taken this through a good beta test program (Centercode does a great job of doing such betas). The issue is that the old system was developed by someone else and Verizon did a complete rewrite. Things don't always work at first but with the IMG 2.0 Verizon can roll out weekly patches and as I have watched the threads, some problems have been fixed. I also agree that more HD channels should be a priority but that is a different department and they can do things in parallel. I for one found the existing UI awkward and press the skip button, wait 3-5 seconds to see if it took was terrible. Thing is keep telling them what is wrong and they will get it right some day (hopefully before a pass away)!

It is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong), that there was extensive testing and it was done in NJ.

Just a fyi, the latest TivoHD software update appears to eliminate the intermittent pixelization with FiOS.

With the previous software, I would see intermittent pixelization about five times per hour. Since last night's software update, I've seen no pixelization on any channel with the TivoHD.

I've been doing the same comparison. I think I've come to the conclusion that only real advantage Cablevision has right now is the Voom channels. This is nice given the lack of overall HD programming, although FIOS does have a couple of HD channels that Cablevision is missing that I would like to have. However, there are a bunch of new HD stations coming online in the next 6 months and the real question is which will get what and when. So right now I'm stalling a little while longer with Cablevision to see how this pans out.

The other "advantage" to Cablevision is the DVR. The cablevision DVR is HORRIBLE, and the FIOS one is WORSE. Especially forcing 720p channels to get converted to 1080i, which is just unacceptable. That's why, in either case, I will probably buy the new TivoHD DVRs, assuming they can work the problems out of them. Which is another reason I am stalling.

So, in summary, I'm stalling.

Jay, thanks for your thoughts. I also heard the Fios DVR was pretty crappy. Currently, my Cablevision DVR hasn't been perfect but I've never had a problem I couldn't solve by unplugging the cable and then plugging it back in.

Does anyone know if the Fios non-DVR HD box also forces 720p channels to show in 1080i?

Jay, having had both the SA Cablevision HD PVR and now the Motorola FIOS HD PVR, I can't agree with you. I find the Motorola superior to the SA. The SA box was the worst I encountered.

Ken, would you care to expand on the experiences you've had with both? I'd like to hear something postive about the Fios HD PVR since I didn't think Cablevision's SA HD PVR was so bad.

Video quality is top priority for me and I'm hoping the programming on Fios improves. Losing the VoomHD network would hurt but of those channels, I only watch KungFuHD, MonsterHD, WorldSportsHD and the occasional UltraHD.

Jay, thanks for your thoughts. I also heard the Fios DVR was pretty crappy. Currently, my Cablevision DVR hasn't been perfect but I've never had a problem I couldn't solve by unplugging the cable and then plugging it back in.

From my frame of reference, the Verizon DVR is on-par with what I used to have from Comcast: some quirkiness, but for the most part it does what I ask it to. And I have had fewer problems with the Verizon DVR "locking-up" on commands the way the one from Comcast would.

And now, back to our regularly-scheduled topic of FIOS programming...

MOJO is the HD channel I'd miss the most by leaving Comcast. :(

Back in June, I was told by a 3rd tier manager that Mojo was actually ready to be the next added HD channel. Let's see if that holds.

Ken, would you care to expand on the experiences you've had with both? I'd like to hear something postive about the Fios HD PVR since I didn't think Cablevision's SA HD PVR was so bad.

Video quality is top priority for me and I'm hoping the programming on Fios improves. Losing the VoomHD network would hurt but of those channels, I only watch KungFuHD, MonsterHD, WorldSportsHD and the occasional UltraHD.

EWL5, I found the SA box to be sluggish. Some commands would result in a delay of 2 seconds or so. The fact that you couldn't bookmark your current position in a show was a real downer for me. As soon as I'd leave a recorded program in the middle and go to a live channel, I'd lose my place in that recorded program. That necessitated me starting from the beginning and fast forwarding until I got to the point where I left off. The other issue I had were the need for frequent reboots. I don't know of those issues have been solved or not.

I haven't had any of those problems with the FIOS PVR. I've also got a Tivo S3 on the FIOS system so it gives me an opportunity to compare. The interesting thing is the FIOS PVR is actually faster than my Tivo S3 in responding to commands. Of course the Tivo interface and software is much better.

IMHO, this discussion should not be in the HDTV programming forum.

So when are we geting HD-VOD, Golf Channel -HD ?
Where should it be then?

I would hate to lumped into Moto STB forums. That would be with Comcast customers.

Maybe there should be a program guide forum? Yeah that's it.

I hate that FIOS doesn't have HD-VOD. FIOS is horrible in the VOD department in every way compared to Comcast.

No HD

Horrible selection

You have to pay extra for old movies. I saw Action Jackson on there for $2.99....it's $2.99 on DVD.

I don't remember seeing network TV shows on there.

Comcast totally demolishes FIOS in VOD.

I have an appointment to switch over to Fios from Cablevision in 2 weeks. I would like some input from someone who has done the same. Here are my "perceived" pros and cons.

PROS
- A lot cheaper than cable tv/cable modem plus phone for the first year
- Higer bandwitch with fiber optics and less compression in the image (macroblocking)
- Keep true landline vs VOIP

CONS
- I would lose way more HD channels than the average joe since Cablevision recently got a hold of the VoomHD network.
- I've heard some stories of how the Moto boxes are tough to calibrate to the right colors.
- Stuck with one year contract on the Fios vs no contract with Cablevision

Any important differences b/w the Fios Moto DVR HD box vs non-DVR HD box? I'm planning to get one of each but may be convinced to get two of the DVR ones since the price difference is not that much per month. Any input is greatly appreciated!

I switched from cablevision (tv and internet) to the FIOS "triple play" this past March. Besides your pros and cons, I add:

positives-
-Standard def picture quality is WAY better on FIOS
-HD pq is as good or better
-I like the Moto boxes - I have 1 dvr 1 hd and 1 sd box
-Internet speeds are way better (true 20/5)

negatives-
- no HD rangers hockey
- "local" weather is Newark (I'm in bergen county)

Overall I'm very happy with all 3 fios services. Although I signed on for a full year, I'm saving almost $40 a month. At the end of the year I'm sure I can get a good deal from CV to switch back.

BTW, IMO the Voom channels are crap and should not be a deciding factor

Where should it be then?

I would hate to lumped into Moto STB forums. That would be with Comcast customers.

Maybe there should be a program guide forum? Yeah that's it.

I hate that FIOS doesn't have HD-VOD. FIOS is horrible in the VOD department in every way compared to Comcast.

No HD

Horrible selection

You have to pay extra for old movies. I saw Action Jackson on there for $2.99....it's $2.99 on DVD.

I don't remember seeing network TV shows on there.

Comcast totally demolishes FIOS in VOD.

If you were changing from Cablevision (NY area) it would not be a big deal. FIOS selection is as good or better and cheaper. CV's HD VOD selection is pitiful and changes around once a year - I do not miss it at all

I made the switch a few weeks back and here are my observations:

PQ is better on V* on both HD and SD although the difference is not huge.
Channel Selection is better on V*. Channels are a matter of taste so your mileage may vary. I am referring to both HD and SD channels.

As new HD channels are available I am more confident that V* will add them much more quickly than Comcast will.

DVR functionality is about the same but the multi room option is nice to have for sharing SD programs with other TV's in the house. It makes no sense to me why you can't delete a program from the "client" cable box.

VOD is the only place where Comcast wins, but I prefer to use the DVR much more than VOD. My kids are not complaining about the Verizon VOD selection in the Kids section so they have no problem with the switch. The lack of HD VOD does not make sense to me because V* has a bandwith advantage.

In the first week my 7 year old complained a lot about the channel numbers changing but after a week he got used to it.

IMG update in Virginia. Just some thoughts.

That I can now do the 4x FF without it stopping the program entirely is worth the upgrade.

I did notice a message in the guide with a yellow triangle and an exclamation point. Something about "Bumped due to deletion." Just thought that was weird phraseology. I'm assuming that means it was scheduled, but since something else got deleted, something got slotted above it in the priority queue. Not sure.

Wish I had a remote that could handle the new 30 second skip.

I haven't yet resolved a conflict, but if it takes less than a minute, like the old guide, I'll be happy.

I don't use favorites or searching or topic browsing, or media manager, so if the new guide is a pain for those sections, it doesn't bother me personally.

BTW, does anyone know the key combo for a fast skip? Such as if I'm watching a 2 hour program, and I want to get to the end, is there a way to skip far ahead instead of just a 4x fast forward?

It is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong), that there was extensive testing and it was done in NJ.
As I understand from Verizon reps - NJ had a few people testing it but it was not a properly run beta test with dedicated feedback forums, access to development team and bug lists.

As I understand from Verizon reps - NJ had a few people testing it but it was not a properly run beta test with dedicated feedback forums, access to development team and bug lists.

If true, that would be amazingly poor judgment by the development team and Top Floor corporate management. :eek: Then again, it would explain the end result. :D

Jay, having had both the SA Cablevision HD PVR and now the Motorola FIOS HD PVR, I can't agree with you. I find the Motorola superior to the SA. The SA box was the worst I encountered.

Well, pointless argument there because either way, both are unacceptable to me. The thing with the FIOS DVR is that there's no workaround to get it to pass both 720p and 1080i properly. With the SA83000, if I'm really careful about what I do, make sure any critical program is set to record on both my DVRs, reboot them at least once a week, and learn all the tricks to get the HDMI connection working properly when it start to flake out, then I can still get a really good picture and get the other stuff I want.

I was hoping the new FIOS software would improve things significantly but it appears it just makes thinks look prettier and added some new bugs.

Just a fyi, the latest TivoHD software update appears to eliminate the intermittent pixelization with FiOS.

With the previous software, I would see intermittent pixelization about five times per hour. Since last night's software update, I've seen no pixelization on any channel with the TivoHD.

Yes, this was the biggest issue I was keeping an eye on. If the software update fixes this then that's a really positive sign. Perhaps there is hope!

...The thing with the FIOS DVR is that there's no workaround to get it to pass both 720p and 1080i properly. ....
I must be tuning in late here ....

The DVR doesn't pass 720p and 1080i? What does it pass?

IMG update in Virginia. Just some thoughts.

That I can now do the 4x FF without it stopping the program entirely is worth the upgrade.

......


What do you mean 4x FF without stopping the entire program???

I thought they removed the 4x fast forward? It show 4 arrows after hitting the fast forward 3 times... I'm thinking the 1st arrow is normal play speed.

The 4 times fast forward used to skip ahead 5 mins every second or so, so I was thinking the just removed the 4x all together.

Am I missing something?

Well, pointless argument there because either way, both are unacceptable to me. The thing with the FIOS DVR is that there's no workaround to get it to pass both 720p and 1080i properly. With the SA83000, if I'm really careful about what I do, make sure any critical program is set to record on both my DVRs, reboot them at least once a week, and learn all the tricks to get the HDMI connection working properly when it start to flake out, then I can still get a really good picture and get the other stuff I want.

I was hoping the new FIOS software would improve things significantly but it appears it just makes thinks look prettier and added some new bugs.

Perhaps both are unacceptable to you, but for me the FIOS box is far superior. Looking at what you have to do (reboot at least once a week, make sure the HDMI works etc.) it sure sounds like you go through a lot more than I have to in order to ensure a quality recording. Each to his own guy.

I also never use 'native' output which IS available on the FIOS box. I don't like the time lag that is introduced whenever you change channels of different resolutions. This is true of every STB I've ever used, whether it's been on D*, Cablevision or FIOS. This is why I set all my boxes to a constant 1080i output for quick, seamless channel changes. Besides that, I watch very very little of SD. ;)

Yes, this was the biggest issue I was keeping an eye on. If the software update fixes this then that's a really positive sign. Perhaps there is hope!

Just a note, there is no such problem with the Tivo S3. I've never seen pixellization on my S3 with FIOS.

P.S. Still no IMG here in N.Y. nor have I received any mailing. It seems there's a major delay here in the rollout.

Where should it be then?

I would hate to lumped into Moto STB forums. That would be with Comcast customers.

Maybe there should be a program guide forum? Yeah that's it.


It should be in the HDTV recording forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=42
Or more specifically
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=617635

I must be tuning in late here ....

The DVR doesn't pass 720p and 1080i? What does it pass?
The Fios box can be set to Either all HD 1080i or all HD 720p ... All HD channels will be sent in the select format, & converted if nessessary ...

The new IMG looks really cool but my wife summed it up when she said, it is really intimidating. Fancy dosen't mean better, especially in this case. The dvr memory is all out of whack and there are many delays when I select channels and other options. I like what they are doing from and asthetic standpoint but functionally it is a little quirky. I guess this is inline with many others here.

At the end of the day the PQ is the best so as long as they add channels 4th q especially RSN here in DC in HD. I am staying put.

Again following up on what a previous poster said about the deleting the recorded programs function, what gives? What genius decided to make it harder to delete programs from a dvr?? It makes you wonder about who was heading up this roll out.

All in all I give it a C-

- "local" weather is Newark (I'm in bergen county)



Not trying to be smart.....did you check to see if your zip code is entered correctly into widgets? I know i can get fat fingeritis when I set up widgets for customers.

I posted the following note to the policy blog on the VZ web site in response to some marketing schmuck who was trying to spin the new IMG as double plus good. I wonder if they will have the courage to post it on their own site. In it, I mention shortcomings which I will catalog in a subsequent post though a number of them have already been voiced by others within this thread.

[Note: i edited it for typos since that post]

John

------------

I have to take exception to anyone who believes this new IMG should be considered an upgrade. The term should be downgrade. At least thats what I call it when the overall capabilities of the system decrease. I have counted over a dozen deleted options since this mistake was foisted upon me. These do not include the errors and lossage that occurred to my existing material during the actual change. Further because no advanced warning was given, I also lost programs that were to be recorded while the change took place.

"The reviews have been great" WHAT?!? Just who did you allow to have access to this abomination before you sprang it on the public? "most people seem to be genuinely wowed by the new guide" is patently false. If you read through the comments on avsforum and dslreports you will see this reality. Your friends at ZNF and lostremote take only a cursory look at the system. They did not put the dvr through its paces. Nor did they seem to have any familiarity with the previous interface. Both reviews focus on the media manager and the glitzy graphic style of the interface. Personally, I think offering a media manager that does not include HD is ludicrous. And function should always drive form not the other way around. Flash graphics at the expense of functionality is tantamount to putting lipstick on a pig. At the end of the day you are still left with something that oinks and stinks. The seeming pride at such a porcine product should call into question the knowledge, judgment and ultimately the integrity of VZ. I can't imagine anyone who really pushed capabilities of the old interface could give the new one anything but a thumbs down.

I could certainly enumerate the lost capabilities but given the bell head mentality (i.e. the left over culture from the AT&T days), VZ is unlikely to take heed. It is the style of that culture to dictate terms despite user feedback. Often the very notion that the customer base has substantive offerings re: new products is ignored. Not to mention the actual thoughts and concerns themselves.

Consider the follow omissions that are common place for VZ. In many arenas these are the de facto standards by which technology is progressed and embraced. Not to mention that they are just common sense.

- Where was the call for public comments before the new interface was designed?

- Where was the web based debate for the new design before it was implemented?

- Where were the beta tests of this new interface?

- Where was the web based public commentary during the betas?

- Where was the advanced notice of the change?

- Where was the choice to opt out of the new interface?

The last two are the ones that really infuriate me though. They show a callous disregard for the end user that is only tolerated in the bowels of corporate meeting rooms. I once complained to VZ customer service that the weekly emergency broadcast tests were constantly disrupting up my dvr schedule. I asked if they could do this on a regular and/or published schedule so I could avoid dvr scheduling during the tests. They replied that national security concerns prohibited them from giving advanced notice.(“We can't provide prior knowledge of the tests because terrorist might take advantage”) After I reeled my jaw up off the floor, I said i did not believe this for a second. But I did realize the motivation and genius of hiding behind this stance. It is both unassailable and deflects the responsibility to a phantom third party while allowing VZ to conduct business in a vacuum. Are sensing a pattern yet? hmmmmm....

Bottom line VZ must know that these type of shortsighted antics alienate customers. Especially the knowledgeable early adopters. They treat us like rats on their ship. Funny thing about us rats is we routinely look for other ships. And we know how to spot a leaky vessel long before it starts to sink.

Hey VZ!, "CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?" Bubble, bubble, bubble, bubble, ....

Do you expect someone at Verizon to take you seriously and reply to that post in a meaningful and helpful way?

Consider the follow omissions that are common place for VZ. In many arenas these are the de facto standards by which technology is progressed and embraced. Not to mention that they are just common sense.

- Where was the call for public comments before the new interface was designed?

- Where was the web based debate for the new design before it was implemented?

- Where were the beta tests of this new interface?

- Where was the web based public commentary during the betas?

- Where was the advanced notice of the change?

- Where was the choice to opt out of the new interface?

The last two are the ones that really infuriate me though. They show a callous disregard for the end user that is only tolerated in the bowels of corporate meeting rooms. I once complained to VZ customer service that the weekly emergency broadcast tests were constantly disrupting up my dvr schedule. I asked if they could do this on a regular and/or published schedule so I could avoid dvr scheduling during the tests. They replied that national security concerns prohibited them from giving advanced notice.(“We can't provide prior knowledge of the tests because terrorist might take advantage”) After I reeled my jaw up off the floor, I said i did not believe this for a second. But I did realize the motivation and genius of hiding behind this stance. It is both unassailable and deflects the responsibility to a phantom third party while allowing VZ to conduct business in a vacuum. Are sensing a pattern yet? hmmmmm....


You sound like someone who's upset that he didn't get invited to take part in the beta test. Also, the EAS test schedule is not set by Verizon. It's doubful the customer service person knew that, but they should.

I still don't have the IMG - and I'll reserve judgement until I've actually seen it. However, your post offers me no insight into the new guide at all. You just don't like it, but you don't give specifics other than the complaint about where they conducted the beta test.

You sound like someone who's upset that he didn't get invited to take part in the beta test. Also, the EAS test schedule is not set by Verizon. It's doubful the customer service person knew that, but they should.

I still don't have the IMG - and I'll reserve judgement until I've actually seen it. However, your post offers me no insight into the new guide at all. You just don't like it, but you don't give specifics other than the complaint about where they conducted the beta test.

I always wonder about people with that kind of post as their first post. I'm not saying the guy is a troll, that remains to be seen, but it always strikes me odd that we've never heard from this guy until now and it's one rant after another. As you say, he gives no info whatever as to what bugs him about the new IMG.

I always wonder about people with that kind of post as their first post. I'm not saying the guy is a troll, that remains to be seen, but it always strikes me odd that we've never heard from this guy until now and it's one rant after another. As you say, he gives no info whatever as to what bugs him about the new IMG.

I sometimes wonder if folks from competing companies (Comcast, Directv, etc) post on the boards of competitors to try to convince people to switch or keep people from signing up in the first place.

There may be plenty of reasons to praise or complain about the new IMG, this guy just didn't mention any of those reasons.

I will say, just to be on the safe side, my wife and I are dubbing off everything from our DVR before the IMG downloads later this week. I'll be interested to see it. The online demo looks pretty nice. I just hope it works that well in practice.

As I understand from Verizon reps - NJ had a few people testing it but it was not a properly run beta test with dedicated feedback forums, access to development team and bug lists.

Whatever you heard is very untrue! I was a beta tester in NJ. I am not, and never have been, a Verizon employee. The beta test contained a lot of Verizon employees from across the country.

The beta testing was very structured, unlike the rumor you heard. There were ongoing electronic surveys, weekly conference calls, emails I sent and received directly from developers, etc. I'm not sure if there was a bug list provided to those testing, but if I reported an item, I would receive a response that same day indicating it was known or not known.

It was very structured and well run, so I'm not sure where the misinformation you received came from, but it's completely wrong.

I posted the following note to the policy blog on the VZ web site in response to some marketing schmuck who was trying to spin the new IMG as double plus good. I wonder if they will have the courage to post it on their own site. In it, I mention shortcomings which I will catalog in a subsequent post though a number of them have already been voiced by others within this thread.

[Note: i edited it for typos since that post]

John

[Rant cut by me]


You really are either a troll or completely clueless or I guess the 3rd option of both a troll and completely clueless.

Verizon beta tested the software. I was selected to be a part of it. It was a very structured beta test. Why would it be in a public forum? I only know open source betas to typically be open to the public. Does Microsoft, IBM, Sony, Panasonic, GM, Ford, etc allow you to beta test their products and view beta feedback in an open forum? Of course not!

As for notification, I think it is well documented that Verizon has both sent out a postal mailing and contacted FIOS customers via telephone prior to the update. I know for me, I've received both and NJ hasn't yet received the update.

Why would you be able to opt-out of receiving the update? Can you tell me a similar firmware based offering, where you don't own the device, that you can do that with?

Just a silly post from someone obviously very uninformed about the situation and reality.

The Fios box can be set to Either all HD 1080i or all HD 720p ... All HD channels will be sent in the select format, & converted if nessessary ...

This is my third STB. My Dish 811 receiver was the same as this. My Samsung ATSC tuner has a physical switch on the back to switch resolutions. So the Moto box is no worse than MOST other boxes on the market.

Sure, it would be nice, but referring to it as a "resolution problem" is more than a stretch.

Pretty easy to program a macro to change res, with the new software.

I sometimes wonder if folks from competing companies (Comcast, Directv, etc) post on the boards of competitors to try to convince people to switch or keep people from signing up in the first place.
...

Don't doubt it for a minute. Some forums are worse than others, but this one is no exception.

Alas, proof of this is elusive, but I have seen plenty of evidence to convince me that its going on.

Whatever you heard is very untrue! I was a beta tester in NJ. I am not, and never have been, a Verizon employee. The beta test contained a lot of Verizon employees from across the country.

The beta testing was very structured, unlike the rumor you heard. There were ongoing electronic surveys, weekly conference calls, emails I sent and received directly from developers, etc. I'm not sure if there was a bug list provided to those testing, but if I reported an item, I would receive a response that same day indicating it was known or not known.

It was very structured and well run, so I'm not sure where the misinformation you received came from, but it's completely wrong.

IF the beta test was structured and thorough as you indicate, why are so many simple things not working? How could they get the a simple fact that at the end of a recording you would want to delete it! I still have not seen the new IMG and reserve judgment until then but from comments placed here, they ran a beta test like an alpha test and never tested it for UI friendliness.

IF the beta test was structured and thorough as you indicate, why are so many simple things not working? How could they get the a simple fact that at the end of a recording you would want to delete it! I still have not seen the new IMG and reserve judgment until then but from comments placed here, they ran a beta test like an alpha test and never tested it for UI friendliness.

I've been able to delete at the end of a recording (or any point along the way).

Hit <info><info>

a dialog comes up asking if you want to delete. It is curious that it still plays on until you leave, but I'd consider that a minor annoyance if that.

I'm a developer of other software, and can tell you that most proper beta tests are not public, that the testers are usually selected carefully, since you want to get a representative cross section of users.

GUI development in particular is difficult, since so much of it is subjective. One person's wine is another's vinegar, but there are some standards that you can use. If you've chosen your testers correctly, and they represent your users well, then you will probably come up with a good result.

I've yet to see any GUI that satisfies everyone out of the box, including Windows and the Apple GUI. Having said all that, I'm satisfied with the new IMG, there are some things I like better previously, but on the whole, I like its ease of use. In particular, the search function, the look of the guide, the info look (clearly see what is playing, how much time is left, etc.) and the rewind / fast forward function is much better than before.

IF the beta test was structured and thorough as you indicate, why are so many simple things not working? How could they get the a simple fact that at the end of a recording you would want to delete it! I still have not seen the new IMG and reserve judgment until then but from comments placed here, they ran a beta test like an alpha test and never tested it for UI friendliness.

Who says the issue wasn't raised during the beta? Every application has known issues but is released anyway. A decision is made regarding each known issue and a determination is made if there's a reason not to launch. Apparently Verizon was ok with launching the known issues. This isn't unusual at all. You don't have to agree with the decision but you can't throw out that the beta was unstructured and not well run.

What do you mean 4x FF without stopping the entire program???

I thought they removed the 4x fast forward? It show 4 arrows after hitting the fast forward 3 times... I'm thinking the 1st arrow is normal play speed.

The 4 times fast forward used to skip ahead 5 mins every second or so, so I was thinking the just removed the 4x all together.

Am I missing something?

Someone may have responded, but with the old IMG, if I went up to 4x fast forward at any point in a program, the fast forwarding would simply quit (or more likely jump to the end of the program).

I guess you could rephrase my thought to say "the fastest fast forward doesn't quit the program anymore".

Who says the issue wasn't raised during the beta? Every application has known issues but is released anyway. A decision is made regarding each known issue and a determination is made if there's a reason not to launch. Apparently Verizon was ok with launching the known issues. This isn't unusual at all. You don't have to agree with the decision but you can't throw out that the beta was unstructured and not well run.

I do not think it was a wise decision for Verizon FiOS to release the IMG in its current state. The fact that everytime I call the FiOS-TV Helpline I here a recorded statement about "Does your problem involve the new IMG?" (paraphrasing there) seems to back that belief up. ;)

Also, a problem we've run into a few times is playing a recording, the play starts with about a minute left in the show. We need to use "Resume Play" for some reason, even if we've never played it before. This has happened a few times (and annoyed the wife when she tried to play So You Think... finale, and it showed the ending).

Also, a problem we've run into a few times is playing a recording, the play starts with about a minute left in the show. We need to use "Resume Play" for some reason, even if we've never played it before. This has happened a few times (and annoyed the wife when she tried to play So You Think... finale, and it showed the ending).

Yes, I had that too (among many other problems). When I received my new Tivo and was ready to return my FiOS HD-DVR STB, I called the FiOS-TV Helpline to tell them. During that call, I reminded them that I had been having a lot of problems with the box and still had an open ticket on it. I even had recordings of several of the problems. The CSR didn't seem to care. He said all returned STB's are routinely examined for problems before they are refurbished. That may be true, but totally misses the point. The problems were not in my box and some software troubleshooting run on my box after it is returned is not going to resolve them since the box itself is sound I think (my earlier trouble calls revealed that others had reported many of the same problems). By examining my recordings the techs could have seen the problems and that might have helped them fix them faster. Oh, well ....

I also never use 'native' output which IS available on the FIOS box. I don't like the time lag that is introduced whenever you change channels of different resolutions. This is true of every STB I've ever used, whether it's been on D*, Cablevision or FIOS. This is why I set all my boxes to a constant 1080i output for quick, seamless channel changes. Besides that, I watch very very little of SD. ;)

Sorry, but losing half the resolution on 720p channels is just not acceptable.

My impressions of the new IMG:

1. I hate it whenever I select "Favorites", it goes to channel 60-something, instead of the current channel (or something close to the current channel if the current channel isn't in the favorites list). Now that I think of it, channel 60-something is where my favorites start, so it is probably going to the first channel in the favorites list.

2. When I set my STB front display for "display time", it still displays the channel number for about 10 seconds prior to displaying the time.

3. Sluggish DVR guide listing. Maybe it's just my STB, but the DVR guide display responsiveness seems to be slower than it was before the upgrade.

4. DVR reboots sporadically.

Sorry, but losing half the resolution on 720p channels is just not acceptable.


What? when a 720p signal is scaled to 1080i you're not "losing" anything.

now it's entirely possible that a cable or sat box with a poor scaler will introduce artifacting & other PQ issues that have nothing to do with resolution per se-that's why some of us prefer a "native" setting on the box & let our display scale the signal.

which leads to my next point-unless you have a 720p display you're not seeing a native 720p signal no matter if the decoder box is at "native" or whatever. your display scales the signal to it's native resolution.

in my case my FiOS HD signals are output at 1080i & my display deinterlaces it to 1080p.
and it all looks just fine-no difference between ESPN or NatGeo(720p) & the others.

I haven't been able to find a comprehensive list anywhere so I apologize for repeating problems already reported.

My setup: I have the Multi-Room DVR with two STBs as well.

1) My upgrade didn't go smooth. Had to unplug the DVR three times before it stopped freezing up when I tried to change channels. My wife thought that was great. Also, one of the STBs was working fine after the upgrade. I then powered it off and then could not get it to come back on. After unplugging/replugging threes or so and then waiting about 20 minutes, it suddenly came back to life. Thought that it had died on me.

2) My list of scheduled series was duplicated so shows were being recorded twice. Also, all of my previously recorded shows before the upgrade now appeared twice in the Recorded Programs list. Fortunately, I could delete one of them without losing the actual show (which is what I feared would happen).

3) When using the STBs to watch a recorded show, I can skip forward 30 secs (with almost no delay which is nice) but the replay button also does 30 secs and I can't figure out how to change the time interval to something reasonable like 10 secs. I can do this on the DVR unit (under Settings) but it only works on the DVR itself.

4) The FF speed seems to be slower. At the highest speed with the old software, I think that it skipped about 5 minutes at a time. The new software seems to have a top speed of only 1 or 2 minutes. Now, it takes forever to skip through a show.

5) The DVR seems to be very sluggish to respond to the remote when it is recording something (which is most of the time since I almost always have something scheduled). The old software had this problem too. I was hoping this was going to be solved with the upgrade.

I called Verizon to ask about setting the time period for the replay button and the CSR at the special IMG help center said the question was too technical for him. Wow. It's either in a menu somewhere or it's not. He tried to forward me to the main FIOS support and I ended up with a 411 operator who answered the phone in Spanish. I can always count on Verizon to put a smile on my face.

What? when a 720p signal is scaled to 1080i you're not "losing" anything.

now it's entirely possible that a cable or sat box with a poor scaler will introduce artifacting & other PQ issues that have nothing to do with resolution per se-that's why some of us prefer a "native" setting on the box & let our display scale the signal.

which leads to my next point-unless you have a 720p display you're not seeing a native 720p signal no matter if the decoder box is at "native" or whatever. your display scales the signal to it's native resolution.

in my case my FiOS HD signals are output at 1080i & my display deinterlaces it to 1080p.
and it all looks just fine-no difference between ESPN or NatGeo(720p) & the others.

No. That's just wrong. You are going 720p->1080i. The only way to do that is chop HALF your data! Gone. Goodbye. Lost. Then, to top it off, your are trying to deinterlace the result, which has its own issues.

Perhaps you can't see the difference, but it's blatant to me. Don't know how you could miss losing half your picture, but, then again, there's people who can't tell the difference between a standard DVD and a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD even though that's blatantly obvious too.

I've noticed one thing in the new software that I don't think I had previously. When I turn on the STB, it has an hour (even in HD) of buffer from whatever channel it was last on, even though the STB was turned off (I know, I know, the STB is never really "off"). Not that big a deal, but a nice feature.

I got the IMG upgrade last Wed and everything was working fine. Sat night at around 1am my box (6412) rebooted and I lost my HDMI connection. Has anyone else experienced the same thing?

Who says the issue wasn't raised during the beta? Every application has known issues but is released anyway. A decision is made regarding each known issue and a determination is made if there's a reason not to launch. Apparently Verizon was ok with launching the known issues. This isn't unusual at all. You don't have to agree with the decision but you can't throw out that the beta was unstructured and not well run.
I could be wrong but didn't beta new GUI beta appear in NJ right around the time FiOS became available? Just curious, did beta testers have the old GUI become getting the new?

Sorry, but losing half the resolution on 720p channels is just not acceptable.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You do not lose 'half the resolution' on 720p. You get the full rez of 720p. Where did you ever get this idea?

I have no idea what you're talking about. You do not lose 'half the resolution' on 720p. You get the full rez of 720p. Where did you ever get this idea? :rolleyes:

Not that I agree with him, but I believe he is saying that you lose 1/2 the resolution when the Moto box converts from 720p to 1080i.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You do not lose 'half the resolution' on 720p. You get the full rez of 720p. Where did you ever get this idea?

I think Jay means the following. In 2/60 of a second you get:

720p = 1280 x 720 x 2 = 1,843,200 pixels

1080i = 1920 x 540 x 2 = 2,073,600 pixels (even numbered followed by odd numbered lines)

It still looks like 1080i has higher overall pixel count but 720p will look way smoother, especially with sports.

Not that I agree with him, but I believe he is saying that you lose 1/2 the resolution when the Moto box converts from 720p to 1080i.

If he's worried about the conversion process to 1080i, he might not be aware that if he has a '720p' display, he probably really has a 768p display. Therefore, even given a pure 720p signal, the signal will still have to be scaled by the display to match its native 768p resolution. There are no 768p broadcast signals.

So his theory is moot either way. In fact, on all of my 768p displays, 1080i actually looks better than 720p despite the 'apparently' greater scaling that would be involved. If he's concerned about deinterlacing, he could have his TV do the deinterlacing.

As to the 'smoothness' of 720p vs 1080i, this has been a worn out subject on AVS over the years. The fact is that most broadcasts are static are almost static in nature, so 1080i gives the overall better PQ. With very fast motion, 720p would have somewhat of an advantage, but most AVS'rs have compared and prefer the improved sharpness of 1080i.

Anyone had any luck of inserting modulated channels in FIOS? Is there any way of doing it. It's my only reason for not dumping Comcast.

I could be wrong but didn't beta new GUI beta appear in NJ right around the time FiOS became available? Just curious, did beta testers have the old GUI become getting the new?
FIOS in NJ became available the very end of Dec 2006 / beginning of Jan 2007 in Northern NJ areas that had FIOS Internet.

I was offered the beta guide in April of 2007. I had the old guide for 4 months prior to getting a beta version of the new guide. I'm currently a few point releases behind the version being rolled out and will get updated to the same version (I assume 3.40) once all of NJ gets the new guide.

Whenever my friends get HD for the first time, they always are amazed by the opening of ESPN Sportscenter compared to other visually appealing shows on Discovery, MOJO, etc. I believe a large part of this is due to the smoothness of 720p. Another example is The Unit on CBS (1080i) vs 24 on FOX (720p). Both are action-oriented but 24 seems to have more of an A/V impact even though it is not the resolution leader compared to The Unit. This is the main reason I let the channels come through in their native rez, delay and all. Anyone else agree/disagree?

Is there a way to do that with their Motorola boxes?

Aren't you tied to picking the output resolution?

Would be nice if it passed through the native channel rez.

Is there a way to do that with their Motorola boxes?

Aren't you tied to picking the output resolution?

Would be nice if it passed through the native channel rez.

I've read conflicting reports where some say it can't and some say it can. My experience is solely based on the SA box for Cablevision as my Fios install is next week. I'll let you guys know once I have that Moto box in my hands.

I think Jay means the following. In 2/60 of a second you get:

720p = 1280 x 720 x 2 = 1,843,200 pixels

1080i = 1920 x 540 x 2 = 2,073,600 pixels (even numbered followed by odd numbered lines)

It still looks like 1080i has higher overall pixel count but 720p will look way smoother, especially with sports.

if that's what he meant it's sure not what he said.

as I understand the format conversion process it doesn't magically add or subtract resolution. again-you don't "lose" resolution converting 720p to 1080i anymore than you ADD resolution converting 480i to 1080i or 720p.

and Jay once again you miss a major point-you can't avoid 720p to 1080i signal conversion UNLESS you have a 720p display(and once more Ken you're the voice of reason by pointing out that many plasma & LCD's are really 768p anyway). if you have a 1080i or 1080p display a 720p signal will have to be scaled to that format-it's a question of whether the display does it, or the Moto box. and just for the record yes I can tell differences in PQ.

bigwillie the Moto boxes can do a semi-native pass-thru. if you go in the service menu & enable 4:3 OVERRIDE @ 480i the SD chs will pass thru at their native res. this seems to give the best SD PQ. the downside is lag in switching from an SD to an HD ch. for HD chs just set the Moto box to 720p or 1080i(which you can do from the IMG)-whichever best matches the native res. of your TV.

and to access the service menu-TV on, Moto box off, press SELECT then immediately press MENU(you have to do this quickly & it might work better if you use the buttons on the box)
it wouldn't surprise me if 4:3 OVERRIDE 480i is the default.

If he's worried about the conversion process to 1080i, he might not be aware that if he has a '720p' display, he probably really has a 768p display. Therefore, even given a pure 720p signal, the signal will still have to be scaled by the display to match its native 768p resolution. There are no 768p broadcast signals.

So his theory is moot either way. In fact, on all of my 768p displays, 1080i actually looks better than 720p despite the 'apparently' greater scaling that would be involved. If he's concerned about deinterlacing, he could have his TV do the deinterlacing.

As to the 'smoothness' of 720p vs 1080i, this has been a worn out subject on AVS over the years. The fact is that most broadcasts are static are almost static in nature, so 1080i gives the overall better PQ. With very fast motion, 720p would have somewhat of an advantage, but most AVS'rs have compared and prefer the improved sharpness of 1080i.

Wow, how many assumptions of my stupidity do you guys have to make in order to try to prove something that's WRONG?

OK. Let's get this straight, I know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

To simplify: you have a 720p station watching a football game which you have your STB/DVR outputting at 1080i to a 1080p television. That's 60 frames per second at 1280x720 resolution (921600 pixels per frame). OK, simple enough?

Now, how do you convert your image from 720p to 1080i? First, you scale it to 1080p. You still have your original 921600 pixels worth of data, but you have extrapolated it to 1920x1080 pixels. Effectively each of your original 720p pixels is 1.5 times the size. OK, fine, great, no problem.

But wait, you want to output 1080i! So what does that mean? That means each frame we send out only half the picture on each frame and thus it takes 2 frames to update the whole screen. So now, each frame we are sending out 1920x540, which is actually 1280x360 worth of our original data. Hmmm, that's only 460800 pixels per frame. What happened to the rest of our 921600 pixels per frame? It's GONE! You removed it. You can't get it back.

The last step, of course, is that the TV needs to display the 1080i signal it's getting as 1080p, but the best it can usually do is just wait 2 frames to get a whole pictures and effectively update the screen 30 times per second. Now, there's some more advanced things it can do to try to smooth that out, but it still can't recreate the original information that was removed.

The kicker is that the reason some networks chose 720p is specifically for sports because you want the full 60 frame per second data to give you fluid motion. They sacrifice the higher resolution of 1080i to get this because they felt the higher frame rate was more important. By forcing a 720p to 1080i conversion, you not only get the lower resolution, but you lose the high frame rate for fluid motion.

For a 1080p television, you want to do a simple 720p->1080p conversion. Nothing else.

So, back to my original point: forcing me to convert 720p->1080i seriously degrades picture quality AND IS UNACCEPTABLE.

Let me throw another monkey wrench into the mix...

I found this posted on the dslreports website:
____________________________________________________________

The primary benefit of the Tivo Series3, as far as quality goes, is due to the availability of the native output setting. This "native" setting outputs 720p channels as 720p and 1080i channels as 1080i. Motorola STBs/DVRs -- from all cable companies, not just FiOS -- do not offer that option.

With the Motorola, you've got to convert 720p channels to 1080i or 1080i channels to 720p, neither of which the Motorola STB does well. When you choose the 720p setting on the Motorola, it downconverts 1080i channels to the equivalent of 1280x540p. When you use the 1080i setting on the Motorola, it downconverts 720p channels to a resolution that varies between 1280x720p and 1280x360p, depending on the amount of movement on the screen. Neither of these is optimal if you have a 1080p TV.

The Tivo Series3 currently isn't 100% compatibile with the way FiOS and some others encode their channels, and pixelization is the result. As my post above suggests, Tivo thinks they have fixed the problem in the next Series3 software update, but we won't know for sure until it is out.
____________________________________________________________

Here is the link to the thread:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18202547-Tivo-Series3-with-Fios-SURVEY

I haven't verified if this is true or not.

Let me throw another monkey wrench into the mix...

I found this posted on the dslreports website:
____________________________________________________________

The primary benefit of the Tivo Series3, as far as quality goes, is due to the availability of the native output setting. This "native" setting outputs 720p channels as 720p and 1080i channels as 1080i. Motorola STBs/DVRs -- from all cable companies, not just FiOS -- do not offer that option.

With the Motorola, you've got to convert 720p channels to 1080i or 1080i channels to 720p, neither of which the Motorola STB does well. When you choose the 720p setting on the Motorola, it downconverts 1080i channels to the equivalent of 1280x540p. When you use the 1080i setting on the Motorola, it downconverts 720p channels to a resolution that varies between 1280x720p and 1280x360p, depending on the amount of movement on the screen. Neither of these is optimal if you have a 1080p TV.

The Tivo Series3 currently isn't 100% compatibile with the way FiOS and some others encode their channels, and pixelization is the result. As my post above suggests, Tivo thinks they have fixed the problem in the next Series3 software update, but we won't know for sure until it is out.
____________________________________________________________

Here is the link to the thread:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18202547-Tivo-Series3-with-Fios-SURVEY

I haven't verified if this is true or not.

I guess I will lose pass-through of the channel's native rez which was available on the SA box from Cablevision. Stinks that I'm trading resolution for overall picture quality unless I get the TivoHD box. Funny that only the Series3 was mentioned. Does the software update apply to the $299 box as well?

First of all, as I mentioned, I have not verified if this post at dslreports is accurate or not, so be aware of this!

As for your question, I believe the $299 box has a native output selection that "should" output 1080i source as 1080i and 720p source as 720p.

I guess I will lose pass-through of the channel's native rez which was available on the SA box from Cablevision. Stinks that I'm trading resolution for overall picture quality unless I get the TivoHD box. Funny that only the Series3 was mentioned. Does the software update apply to the $299 box as well?That's a limitation of Broadcom chipsets. If Motorola added a "native" output option to their firmware, it wouldn't be a problem.

Both the TivoHD and Tivo Series3 provide native output options -- output of 720p channels as 720p and 1080i channels as 1080i -- so you can avoid the lossy format conversion. For those with displays that cannot accept 480i via HDMI, the TivoHD also adds a hybrid mode that deinterlaces 480i SD channels to 480p, and outputs 720p and 1080i channels natively.

Tivo has also since resolved the signal compatibility issues with FiOS. The TivoHD seems to work most reliably with FiOS as its QAM tuner isn't quite as sensitive as the one on the Series3. On the other hand, the TivoHD is currently using older software which doesn't have the performance enhancements of the newer software on the Series3 -- although that will probably change in a few months.

Does anyone know when we will get HD VOD or if we will ever get it?

Does anyone know when we will get HD VOD or if we will ever get it?
There was an interview several months ago with one of the higher ups at Verizon who stated that there were no major technicals hurdles left to adding HD VOD. It is clear that Verizon will add HD VOD, but the only reports - which were not that solid - were that it would or might happen by the end of 2007. I expect HD VOD capability is part of the (buggy, ok seriously buggy) IMG upgrade. Like new HD channels, we will eventually see HD VOD, but there has been no word as to when.

Let me throw another monkey wrench into the mix...

I found this posted on the dslreports website:
____________________________________________________________

The primary benefit of the Tivo Series3, as far as quality goes, is due to the availability of the native output setting. This "native" setting outputs 720p channels as 720p and 1080i channels as 1080i. Motorola STBs/DVRs -- from all cable companies, not just FiOS -- do not offer that option.

With the Motorola, you've got to convert 720p channels to 1080i or 1080i channels to 720p, neither of which the Motorola STB does well. When you choose the 720p setting on the Motorola, it downconverts 1080i channels to the equivalent of 1280x540p. When you use the 1080i setting on the Motorola, it downconverts 720p channels to a resolution that varies between 1280x720p and 1280x360p, depending on the amount of movement on the screen. Neither of these is optimal if you have a 1080p TV.

The Tivo Series3 currently isn't 100% compatibile with the way FiOS and some others encode their channels, and pixelization is the result. As my post above suggests, Tivo thinks they have fixed the problem in the next Series3 software update, but we won't know for sure until it is out.
____________________________________________________________

Here is the link to the thread:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18202547-Tivo-Series3-with-Fios-SURVEY

I haven't verified if this is true or not.


The reason I'm skeptical about half the resolution being thrown away when 720p is converted to 1080i, is siimple observation. Granted I've only had 768p displays, but I've done some pretty careful observations of 720p channels both @ native 720p and upconverted to 1080i. I see very very little difference between the two. Even on a 768p display, if half the rez were being thrown away, this should be quite obvious. Yet some ESPN broadcasts can appear stunningly sharp on my 768p displays (Fujtisus & Pioneer Elite), when upconverted to 1080i or at the native 720p. I just see very little difference...certainly not a 50% reduction in resolution!

I've generally preferred leaving STBs at 1080i to avoid the unavoidable lag times that result when a box is in 'native' and you switch from 1 channel at one resolution to another at a different resolution. The display and box must resynch to the new resolution which results in a lag while channel surfing.

It's not just my observations, but over the years other members have conducted these tests and found similar things.

Just my 2 cents....768P NEC 50XR5 Panel...
I agree the Moto Box in not optimal...I choose to leave on 1080i...more channels I am interested in are 1080i...BUT...when I watch Monday Night Football etc...a sports event in 720p...and I know I am going to watch it....I go through the excruciatingly painful act that takes ~15secs to set the STB to 720p....so that I can watch my 3+ hour program at the correct resolution...

I had an SA box before...I liked native passthrough...I pouted...I think the FiOS STB is not all that...but I have moved on...

I am considering a Tivo box...but more along the capacity needs...

anyways...just me...oh and on top of that...my observations align with Ken...so when I can't bear to change the resolution....I just watch it in 1080i... ;)

Edit : Oh the PQ is still much better than my buddies Dish...

I believe HD VOD isin testing in the northeast as we speak.

That's a limitation of Broadcom chipsets. If Motorola added a "native" output option to their firmware, it wouldn't be a problem.

Both the TivoHD and Tivo Series3 provide native output options -- output of 720p channels as 720p and 1080i channels as 1080i -- so you can avoid the lossy format conversion. For those with displays that cannot accept 480i via HDMI, the TivoHD also adds a hybrid mode that deinterlaces 480i SD channels to 480p, and outputs 720p and 1080i channels natively.

Tivo has also since resolved the signal compatibility issues with FiOS. The TivoHD seems to work most reliably with FiOS as its QAM tuner isn't quite as sensitive as the one on the Series3. On the other hand, the TivoHD is currently using older software which doesn't have the performance enhancements of the newer software on the Series3 -- although that will probably change in a few months.

That's why, more and more, I'm thinking the ideal solution is FIOS plus TivoHD. When FIOS gets some more HD channels going and Tivo can get these initial problems worked out of the TivoHD, I think that's the path I'm taking.

The reason I'm skeptical about half the resolution being thrown away when 720p is converted to 1080i, is siimple observation. Granted I've only had 768p displays, but I've done some pretty careful observations of 720p channels both @ native 720p and upconverted to 1080i. I see very very little difference between the two. Even on a 768p display, if half the rez were being thrown away, this should be quite obvious. Yet some ESPN broadcasts can appear stunningly sharp on my 768p displays (Fujtisus & Pioneer Elite), when upconverted to 1080i or at the native 720p. I just see very little difference...certainly not a 50% reduction in resolution!

I've generally preferred leaving STBs at 1080i to avoid the unavoidable lag times that result when a box is in 'native' and you switch from 1 channel at one resolution to another at a different resolution. The display and box must resynch to the new resolution which results in a lag while channel surfing.

It's not just my observations, but over the years other members have conducted these tests and found similar things.

One of the "disadvantages" to my Sony A2000 is that the picture quality is so good it's very easy to see any deficiencies in the picture, regardless of whether they are caused by the DVR, the cable company, the broadcast station, or as simple as a cameraman taking an extra half-second to get something perfectly in focus. But when everything is good (like feeding it 1080p from Blu-Ray) it's REALLY good.

That's why, more and more, I'm thinking the ideal solution is FIOS plus TivoHD. When FIOS gets some more HD channels going and Tivo can get these initial problems worked out of the TivoHD, I think that's the path I'm taking.

Of course the problem with that path is that you will get no HD PPV when it arrives. I've got a Tivo S3 and a FIOS DVR, so I've got both covered. But it does bother me a bit that I won't get PPV on the Tivo.

One of the "disadvantages" to my Sony A2000 is that the picture quality is so good it's very easy to see any deficiencies in the picture, regardless of whether they are caused by the DVR, the cable company, the broadcast station, or as simple as a cameraman taking an extra half-second to get something perfectly in focus. But when everything is good (like feeding it 1080p from Blu-Ray) it's REALLY good.

Jay, the interesting thing is that even with a 768p panel, you can see some pretty minor differences in PQ. I can spot the difference in picture detail and sharpness between a 720p channel and a 1080i channel. One would think you wouldn't since the 768p channel is so close to the resolution limits of the 720p channel and well below that of the 1080i channel.

It was always easy to see the difference between an OTA HD channel like my local CBS HD station and the same channel broadcast by D*. Of course with a full 1080p display it's certainly more revealing.

But wait, you want to output 1080i! So what does that mean? That means each frame we send out only half the picture on each frame and thus it takes 2 frames to update the whole screen. So now, each frame we are sending out 1920x540, which is actually 1280x360 worth of our original data. Hmmm, that's only 460800 pixels per frame. What happened to the rest of our 921600 pixels per frame? It's GONE! You removed it. You can't get it back.




herein lies the problem-you're confusing FRAMES with FIELDS!


an interlaced format sends each frame of video as two fields-scanned so quickly the human eye sees it as one frame(actually a series of frames-SETI would love to interview someone whose eye could actually see individual frames @60Hz):) anyway this is how broadcast TV worked until the digital formats went into use. in 1080i it still works this way.

the point is each FIELD may have 1/2 the original res. but you have TWO fields scanned aprox. 1/60 of a sec apart. again NO LOST RESOLUTION!!

what you would see if the fields were scanned out of sync is jerky motion, ringing, & other artifacting similar to what you get with a "progressive" scan DVD player with poor 3:2 pulldown. but again this has nothing to do with resolution-IMO most PQ issues are for other reasons.

Who says the issue wasn't raised during the beta? Every application has known issues but is released anyway. A decision is made regarding each known issue and a determination is made if there's a reason not to launch. Apparently Verizon was ok with launching the known issues. This isn't unusual at all. You don't have to agree with the decision but you can't throw out that the beta was unstructured and not well run.

I just received an email telling me that the new IMG is coming and referenced some FAQs. In those FAQs, many issues reported as not working were addressed:

Reminders not available (next release)
Delete channels for my channel list (next software upgrade)
Only see 7 days in schedule (14 days coming)
Can't stop fast forward/rewind

You see Verizon answers at http://promo.verizon.com/cache/_docs/FiosTVfaqs.pdf

Some issues are not addressed at all! Is there a thread on the new IMG?

So, back to my original point: forcing me to convert 720p->1080i seriously degrades picture quality AND IS UNACCEPTABLE.[/QUOTE]

Sorry Jay but that is not the case. I have been watching HD since 1998 and on every set I have seen, 720p looks great sent out at 1080i with no loss in PQ.

Has anoyone determined how to record a series with the new IMG? We used to be able to hit the record button twice, or go into the DVR and set it up to record the series. I'm not able to get either of these methods to work any longer.

I'm sure it blatantly obvious, so feel free to make fun of me, however, while you;re making fun of me, please explain what I'm missing!!

Thanks,
jeepmon

Has anoyone determined how to record a series with the new IMG? We used to be able to hit the record button twice, or go into the DVR and set it up to record the series. I'm not able to get either of these methods to work any longer.

I'm sure it blatantly obvious, so feel free to make fun of me, however, while you;re making fun of me, please explain what I'm missing!!

Thanks,
jeepmon

What are you trying to record?

Series recordings work for most things, but they are broken for ESPN (maybe other channels too, but the ESPN on really sucks). The only way to record a ESPN show is to set up a manual recording.

What are you trying to record?

Series recordings work for most things, but they are broken for ESPN (maybe other channels too, but the ESPN on really sucks). The only way to record a ESPN show is to set up a manual recording.

Hi Ronin_R6 - Thanks for your help!!

I was trying to record something from either PBS Sprout or Noggin (for my daughter - that's my story and I'm sticking to it!).

I guess I should have tried another program, will try that tonight.

Has the series recording for ESPN always been broken or is this new with the "improved" IMG?

Thanks again!!

Has the series recording for ESPN always been broken or is this new with the "improved" IMG?The guide information -- specifically the series flags -- were always broken on ESPN, I think. I don't think you've ever been able to schedule recordings for new episodes of a show on ESPN. But with the old software, you could set the DVR to record every episode of a series on ESPN. The new software doesn't let you schedule a recording if those series flags aren't present.

This absence of flag information on ESPN is the fault of Verizon's specific guide data provider. Other guide providers like Tribune (DirecTV, Tivo) and Gemstar (Comcast) do not have the problem. Presumably, if enough customers report this to Verizon -- which can pass those complaints on to its data provider -- it will be fixed soon.

What is the purpose of the volume control setting in the STB? I have tried using it, but so what? It doesn't hold the volume or limit it when switching channels or anything. What am I missing? I still use the volume button on my remote to adjust each channel as always.

Looks like the IMG is being pushed out to at least the Manhattan Beach area of SoCal....both my STBs are not working....blank screens when turned on,

IMG Up and Running in Huntington Beach.
Recorded Programs still There.
Don't have time to play before work, will report anything "extra" unusual

Is it too early to start griping about the HD channels E* already has and D* will have soon?

(Knowing the leisurely pace at which V* likes to roll out things, I say no :)

FYI

I just got off the phone with Verizon support...the new IMG center and regular support.

Looks like there was a problem with the upgrade. The IMG center is saying that there is a problem with SD STBs, but DVRs and HD STB seem to be OK. The regular support center seems to say it is much broader than that.

My issues:

My SD STB powers on...but I get nothing.

My HD DVR powers on, the software is there, but the info says it is offline and I have no IP address. I do get a picture if I key the channel number directly, but there is no guide info. I do have my recorded programs. I have disconnected/reconnected power, and the IMG center issued a reset....neither resolved the problems.

The standard tech support line said the IMG went out to all of Ca this morning...the last part of the country to get it, and they have not seen these problems before. We are so lucky. :)

Got to get to work.

in Redondo Beach: got sound and video after couple minutes on a HD DVR. quick impression: more visual clutter but not necessarily better functionality. Why can't we have a 16:9 IMG already?

Of course the problem with that path is that you will get no HD PPV when it arrives. I've got a Tivo S3 and a FIOS DVR, so I've got both covered. But it does bother me a bit that I won't get PPV on the Tivo.

I know, but I don't bother with PPV or VoD. The quality of Blu-Rays better than these so I'd prefer to just buy/rent them. There really is no perfect solution and all these companies seem to be trying their hardest to insure that there never is one. That way they can all keep delivering garbage and keep getting paid for it.

herein lies the problem-you're confusing FRAMES with FIELDS!


an interlaced format sends each frame of video as two fields-scanned so quickly the human eye sees it as one frame(actually a series of frames-SETI would love to interview someone whose eye could actually see individual frames @60Hz):) anyway this is how broadcast TV worked until the digital formats went into use. in 1080i it still works this way.

the point is each FIELD may have 1/2 the original res. but you have TWO fields scanned aprox. 1/60 of a sec apart. again NO LOST RESOLUTION!!

what you would see if the fields were scanned out of sync is jerky motion, ringing, & other artifacting similar to what you get with a "progressive" scan DVD player with poor 3:2 pulldown. but again this has nothing to do with resolution-IMO most PQ issues are for other reasons.

Not confused at all. It is noticeable and you lose half your data. With fast motion it's a loss of PERCEIVED resolution. OK. SIMPLE. LOSS OF HALF YOUR DATA AND A LOSS OF PICTURE QUALITY FOR NO REASON.

Sorry Jay but that is not the case. I have been watching HD since 1998 and on every set I have seen, 720p looks great sent out at 1080i with no loss in PQ.

Well I guess I'm totally blind and imagining it all.

Can you please stop? The difference is obvious. Do you work for Microsoft? Who else tries to convince people that if you get half of what you should there's no difference. Just like all the HD-DVD people trying to convince everyone that having 30 gig on a disk is so much better than having 50 gig.

So please stop spreading FUD. YOU LOSE HALF YOUR DATA! BY DEFINITION THERE IS A LOSS OF PICTURE QUALITY!

in Redondo Beach: got sound and video after couple minutes on a HD DVR. quick impression: more visual clutter but not necessarily better functionality. Why can't we have a 16:9 IMG already?
Yeah...in Manhattan Beach, I got sound and video, but no guide info on the HD DVR, but nothing on the SD STB.

When I left at around 9am, I had only sound on both.

Well I guess I'm totally blind and imagining it all.




you're at least 1/2 right now.

I can only conclude you've convinced yourself of this "lose half the resolution" nonsense & see what you believe is (not) there.

your conclusions are based on a total misunderstanding of how interlaced video works. I explained where your analysis was wrong-you just ignore it.

I''ve also explained that the original issue-the FiOS STB's conversion of a 720p signal to 1080i-is moot anyway. you have a 1080p display. even if the FiOS boxes had a native setting any 720p signal would be converted & deinterlaced by your Sony TV. Got it? whether it's the box or the TV YOU CAN"T AVOID IT!!!! you choose to ignore this as well.

and for the benefit of any newbies who've read these posts -you DON'T know what you're talking about.

Jay_Davis: I think it's going from 1080i->720p that is the problem. If done improperly, it becomes 1920x1080i -> 1920x540p ->1280x720p. Then you really DO lose half your data. I don't think there's a way to mess up like that going from 720p->1080i.

I''ve also explained that the original issue-the FiOS STB's conversion of a 720p signal to 1080i-is moot anyway. you have a 1080p display. even if the FiOS boxes had a native setting any 720p signal would be converted & deinterlaced by your Sony TV. Got it? whether it's the box or the TV YOU CAN"T AVOID IT!!!! you choose to ignore this as well.When you choose to output 720p channels at 1080i, you are getting the equivalent of 720i resolution. Static content like the SportsCenter studio should look very similar, but there is obviously a significant loss to temporal resolution.

You are correct that 720p content converted to 720i and then upconverted to 1080i will be deinterlaced in the end. However, you can't reconstruct the original progressive frames because half the information no longer exists. Modern displays will perform motion-adaptive deinterlace to interpolate much of the difference with static scenes (using adjacent fields), but there is only so much that can be done on scenes with movement. Best case, you're probably looking at 1280x540p effective resolution on a scene with movement across much of the picture, and 1280x360p effective resolution on horizontal camera pans. The quality of the motion-adaptive deinterlace circuitry in the display will obviously be a factor. Some examples with a 1080p TV:

SportsCenter studio: 720p and 720p->1080i will look comparable
Nature content with mostly static scenery: 720p and 720p->1080i will look comparable
Tennis with a fixed overhead camera: Ball may be clearer on 720p shot, but otherwise 720p and 720p->1080i will look comparable
Football with camera pan of player running downfield: Pan will be smooth and detailed with 720p, while 720p->1080i will be neither
Any content acquired with moving / panning cameras will look better with native 720p. Any details in motion will look better with native 720p. The greater the rate (faster) of motion, the more noticeable the difference. On the other hand, it will be very difficult to distinguish between 720p and 720p->1080i on content acquired with static (non-moving) cameras that has relatively little motion.

There's also the cadence issue with film sources. Consider the typical 720p series like FOX's House. That's a 1280x720p24 program broadcast in a 1280x720p60 carrier with repeat flags. If Motorola STBs could take that 1280x720p24 source and use it to create a 1080i60 signal with the same 3/2 cadence, then they could produce a signal with no loss in resolution. Unfortunately, the Motorola hardware cannot do that. When you choose to output 720p at 1080i, Motorola STBs interpolate all fields based on the assumption of 720p60 video. Hence, you lose the film cadence on 720p24 content once it is upconverted to 1080i.

You may not care much about losing the original cadence if your 1080p display can't detect film and apply IVTC, but if your display is one of the few (and upcoming) models that can, then do lose a good bit of spacial resolution. You also lose the ability to eliminate cadence-based judder if you have one of those new 1080p 120Hz displays or projectors that can detect film, perform IVTC to obtain the original 24 frames, multiply each by 5 for display.

It is only recently that we've had 1080p displays with the ability to take full advantage of both 720p and 1080i signals. In the past, we've had 720p, 768p, or 1080i (CRT) displays that always required lossy conversion of one format to another. The newest trend is toward 1080p capable displays that can correctly detect and deinterlace based on the cadence of the source material (i.e. film or video) and use that to eliminate cadence-based judder.

Jay_Davis: I think it's going from 1080i->720p that is the problem. If done improperly, it becomes 1920x1080i -> 1920x540p ->1280x720p. Then you really DO lose half your data. I don't think there's a way to mess up like that going from 720p->1080i.With 720p video (like NFL on FOX), you have 60 frames. With 1080i60, you have 60 fields, or the equivalent of 30 frames.

To convert 60 frames into 60 fields (30 frames worth of information), the Motorola boxes take create a field with half the resolution from every frame.

1280x720 Frame 1 -> 1280x360 Field A
1280x720 Frame 2 -> 1280x360 Field B
1280x720 Frame 3 -> 1280x360 Field A
1280x720 Frame 4 -> 1280x360 Field B
...

In other words, a 1280x720i signal. The use of field A and field B above is to simplify the explanation. They are not actually two halves of a frame.

As I noted above, progressive displays use a process known as motion adaptive deinterlace to create progressive frames from an interlaced signal. They look at adjacent fields to see what information has changed. When information has not changed in a given 1/60th of a second-- which is what you get with most shots of the SportsCenter studio -- information from adjacent fields can be weaved together to create a full 720p frame. Said another way -- if there is little or no change from one frame to the next, then there will be little or no loss with 720p -> 1080i conversion on video.

Loss occurs when there is change from one frame to the next, but the degree of that resolution loss will depend upon the amount of change. As a worst case scenario, consider a horizontal camera pan across a football field. With a native 720p signal, that pan is relatively smooth with good detail. With a 720p signal upconverted to 1080i, that pan is anything but smooth and is more of a blur.

you're at least 1/2 right now.

I can only conclude you've convinced yourself of this "lose half the resolution" nonsense & see what you believe is (not) there.

your conclusions are based on a total misunderstanding of how interlaced video works. I explained where your analysis was wrong-you just ignore it.

I''ve also explained that the original issue-the FiOS STB's conversion of a 720p signal to 1080i-is moot anyway. you have a 1080p display. even if the FiOS boxes had a native setting any 720p signal would be converted & deinterlaced by your Sony TV. Got it? whether it's the box or the TV YOU CAN"T AVOID IT!!!! you choose to ignore this as well.

and for the benefit of any newbies who've read these posts -you DON'T know what you're talking about.

Please stop implying that I don't know what I'm talking about. FYI, I've don't video encoding myself and understand it a whole lot more than you do, which you have now made quite obvious. The 720p to 1080i conversions THROWS OUT HALF YOUR DATA. Please get some clue as to what you are talking about before you talk like this. You have some freaking nerve to post nonsense like this.

OK, one more time:
720p->1080p->1080i->1080p
IS NOT THE SAME AS
720p->1080p

Jay_Davis: I think it's going from 1080i->720p that is the problem. If done improperly, it becomes 1920x1080i -> 1920x540p ->1280x720p. Then you really DO lose half your data. I don't think there's a way to mess up like that going from 720p->1080i.

No, see my explanation. You have to lose half your data to create and interlaced picture from your progressive. What you are talking about, if something does that, just makes things even worse.

Would someone please tell me where the "skip button" is on my remote.... I got the IMG yesterday and was able to setup the skip and then realized my remote does not have a skip button. Can I get a new remote due to mine not having this feature.

Thanks

Would someone please tell me where the "skip button" is on my remote.... I got the IMG yesterday and was able to setup the skip and then realized my remote does not have a skip button. Can I get a new remote due to mine not having this feature.Yes, call Verizon @ 1-888-811-1371 and ask for the new remote.

Yes, call Verizon @ 1-888-811-1371 and ask for the new remote.
How much do they charge for the remote to be shipped?

How much do they charge for the remote to be shipped?Nothing. As far as I know, every customer is entitled to the new remote.

Could you guys take the off-topic '720p to 1080i conversion' argument into PM or a separate dedicated thread? This thread is getting complex enough for new readers as it is.

Yes, call Verizon @ 1-888-811-1371 and ask for the new remote.

I just got off the phone with Verizon and was switched to numerous people and numerous phone numbers. Finally got a lady that truly did seem to want to help and was transferring me to another number but first she called it herself and found out that department was closed for the day. I now have to wait until they open tomorrow to once again try to get a new remote.

I find it amazing the Verizon is still in business with the customer service they give.

If you are calling to request the remote, be sure to make it clear that you got the new software. State you got the new software but you don't have the new remote that goes with it.

What new channels should we see being added?

I mean Verizon doesn't have a problem with bandwidth at all.... but look at D* and E*

[QUOTE=Jay_Davis;11398377]Well I guess I'm totally blind and imagining it all.

I guess you are then as I have not seen it.

What new channels should we see being added?

I mean Verizon doesn't have a problem with bandwidth at all.... but look at D* and E*D* hasn't added any new channels yet. Dish Network added six, one of which FiOS already had and four of which show about 75% SD. A few channels (inc. History) are coming in September, but most of the majors are coming in October and November.

Verizon has plenty of capacity between CO and customer. Every FiOS system has 860MHz video bandwidth which translates to 135x38.8Mbps = 5.238 Gbps of QAM channel capacity. When you include the ~30 analog locals on each FiOS system, Verizon uses roughly 3.3 Gbps of that capacity today. Of that 3.3 Gbps in use, close to 2.0 Gbps of video channel data is currently sent from the centralized SuperHeadEnd (SHE) to every regional video hub (VHO). Before long, an OC-48 (2488 Mbps) will no longer be sufficient to get all the new channels to each VHO.

Verizon's infrastructure maps show an OC-192 from the VHO to each local office, but there's still a lot of supporting hardware necessary to take advantage of that capacity for channel delivery. I am sure others know more about what is required than I do.

There are reports that Verizon is still working to upgrade and install the hardware necessary to deliver significant new channels to the regional video hubs (VHOs) for distribution to local offices and then to customers. These upgrades may not be complete until some time in Q4 and it's not clear how many channels Verizon can add before then.

VZ, if they know we will have at least some addtnl HD channel(s) before October, should at least "announce" it as most other TV providers do...
& If they pretty much know what they will add by Jan 1, announce that in advance too ...
Seems they have a learning curve in their TV/Fios marketing ...
I guess we will find out 36 hrs before the channel(s) are added ....

As far as I know, FiOS uses MPEG-2. With the emergence of MPEG-4 as a more efficient compression technique, how long before Verizon sucks it up and converts to it?

I know nobody knows the answer to this question. Just looking for opinions here.

I also know Verizon FiOS has gobs of bandwidth still available. But it is finite, and it seems MPEG-4 is the way to go.

D* hasn't added any new channels yet. Dish Network had added six, one of which FiOS already had and four of which show about 75% SD. A few channels (inc. History) are coming in September, but most of the majors are coming in October and November.

Verizon has plenty of capacity between CO and customer. Every FiOS system has 860MHz video bandwidth which translates to 135x38.8Mbps = 5.238 Gbps of QAM channel capacity. When you include the ~30 analog locals on each FiOS system, Verizon uses roughly 3.3 Gbps of that capacity today. Of that 3.3 Gbps in use, close to 2.0 Gbps of video channel data is currently sent from the centralized SuperHeadEnd (SHE) to every regional video hub (VHO). Before long, an OC-48 (2488 Mbps) will no longer be sufficient to get all the new channels to each VHO.

Verizon's infrastructure maps show an OC-192 from the VHO to each local office, but there's still a lot of supporting hardware necessary to take advantage of that capacity for channel delivery. I am sure others know more about what is required than I do.

There are reports that Verizon is still working to upgrade and install the hardware necessary to deliver significant new channels to the regional video hubs (VHOs) for distribution to local offices and then to customers. These upgrades may not be complete until some time in Q4 and it's not clear how many channels Verizon can add before then.

I find this surprising and somewhat disappointing. According to your numbers, FIOS has already used over 60% of their capacity! I've long been under the impression that they had almost 'unlimited' bandwidth. Of course we know there is no such thing as 'unlimited', but I surely thought with the offerings they have as of today, that would not represent over 60% of capacity.

This brings about two major concerns a) More compression to fit more channels in without any changes to capacity and b) Limited capacity for additional HD channels if no changes are made.

Is anyone else surprised by this?

Either way this is very disappointing and not at all the picture that's been painted. :(

I find this surprising and somewhat disappointing. According to your numbers, FIOS has already used over 60% of their capacity! I've long been under the impression that they had almost 'unlimited' bandwidth. Of course we know there is no such thing as 'unlimited', but I surely thought with the offerings they have as of today, that would not represent over 60% of capacity.

This brings about two major concerns a) More compression to fit more channels in without any changes to capacity and b) Limited capacity for additional HD channels if no changes are made.

Is anyone else surprised by this?

Either way this is very disappointing and not at all the picture that's been painted. :(

Hummmmm. :confused:
Maybe they underestimated the absolute bandwidth they needed beacuse of the inital IPTV mindset that now seems to be on the backburner.

"Verizon FiOS still has roughly 300MHz capacity available on their systems for new HD channels, sufficient for about 100 new 1920x1080i HD channels @ 19Mbps each. They've also committed to freeing up another 180-200MHz by February 2009 with the elimination of analog locals. That will create space for another 60-65 new 1920x1080 HD channels @ 19Mbps each."

-from bfdtv in another thread...

As far as I know, FiOS uses MPEG-2. With the emergence of MPEG-4 as a more efficient compression technique, how long before Verizon sucks it up and converts to it?

I know nobody knows the answer to this question. Just looking for opinions here.

I also know Verizon FiOS has gobs of bandwidth still available. But it is finite, and it seems MPEG-4 is the way to go.

I suspect it will be a while. Replacing every set-top box they have will cost a lot, so they won't do it if absolutely necessary.

Anyone else having problems with FIOS this morning? Several channels are out here in Plano, Texas. I'm wondering if this is related to the preparations to send us the new IMG?

I suspect it will be a while. Replacing every set-top box they have will cost a lot, so they won't do it if absolutely necessary.

It is my understanding from speaking with one of Verizon's tier 3 engineers that MPEG4 is supportable by the existing boxes with a firmware upgrage so that the boxes do not have to be replaced.

When you choose to output 720p channels at 1080i, you are getting the equivalent of 720i resolution. Static content like the SportsCenter studio should look very similar, but there is obviously a significant loss to temporal resolution.

You are correct that 720p content converted to 720i and then upconverted to 1080i will
.
infreakingredible description, very informative.
.
.
detail. With a 720p signal upconverted to 1080i, that pan is anything but smooth and is more of a blur.

Great post, here's my question: I have a Vizio 1080p 47" screen. I want the best possible display for 480, 720, 1080 signals. Could care less about the delay time to change channels, I want to watch the NFL in glorious HD and the rest of the TV spectrum in glorious <whatever>.

What is the best setting to use for a 1080p TV? Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but, inquiring minds want to know.

I find this surprising and somewhat disappointing. According to your numbers, FIOS has already used over 60% of their capacity! I've long been under the impression that they had almost 'unlimited' bandwidth. Of course we know there is no such thing as 'unlimited', but I surely thought with the offerings they have as of today, that would not represent over 60% of capacity.

This brings about two major concerns a) More compression to fit more channels in without any changes to capacity and b) Limited capacity for additional HD channels if no changes are made.

Is anyone else surprised by this?

Either way this is very disappointing and not at all the picture that's been painted. :(A big chunk of that is the 30-35 analog locals, which FiOS has told the FCC they will eliminate by February 2009. If they were to eliminate those analog locals today, only about 2.25 of the 5.238 Gbps (43%) would be in use. Remember, one full-bitrate 1080i HD channel consumes a maximum of 19.4 Mbps or 0.0194 Gbps.

WAN (Internet) does not consume any of this capacity. VOD uses IP, so it does not consume QAM capacity either.

Verizon won't have 'unlimited' capacity until they move to IPTV (with GPON), but that is 3-5 years away. The next step for FiOS is MPEG-4, which they will use -- presumably for new channels -- with their next-generation boxes.

You've got to keep all this in perspective. We've heard a lot about DirecTV's new D10 and D11 satellites and how they will provide capacity for 100-150 new HD channels. Best case scenario (8PSK @ 3/4 FEC), these new satellites only provide a total of 1.708 Gbps national bandwidth. If DirecTV uses QPSK, that figure will be 20+% less.

As far as I know, FiOS uses MPEG-2. With the emergence of MPEG-4 as a more efficient compression technique, how long before Verizon sucks it up and converts to it?Verizon is now accepting bids on new MPEG-4 STBs and DVRs for delivery in 2009. You can read a few bits on that here (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=129035&site=cdn).

It is my understanding from speaking with one of Verizon's tier 3 engineers that MPEG4 is supportable by the existing boxes with a firmware upgrage so that the boxes do not have to be replaced.Whoever told you that was misinformed. The current Motorola QIP boxes are based on the Broadcom BCM7038, which is a MPEG-2 only chip. In fact, the QIP6416 is just a DCT3416 with an extra chip for MoCA. It has no means to support MPEG-4.

As noted above, Verizon is now accepting bids (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=129035&site=cdn) for next-generation STBs and DVRs with MPEG-4. Initially, Verizon expected to accept a bid before the end of this year. I'm not sure whether that is still the plan.

Hi,

I went to the Verizon website to get some info about TV programming via FiOS and it looks like I have to choose from either "FiOS TV" or "DirecTV" service through Verizon. Problem is they don't show any side-by-side comparison of the two.

My questions are basically:

1. Are they both equal in PQ?
2. Do they offer comparable HD channel selections?
3. What do most people on this forum get?

Thanks

Hi,

I went to the Verizon website to get some info about TV programming via FiOS and it looks like I have to choose from either "FiOS TV" or "DirecTV" service through Verizon. Problem is they don't show any side-by-side comparison of the two.

My questions are basically:

1. Are they both equal in PQ?
2. Do they offer comparable HD channel selections?
3. What do most people on this forum get?

Thanks

I dropped D* and got FiOS-TV because: (1) cheaper; (2) no satellite dish dropout problems; (3) no signal compression.

Hi,

I went to the Verizon website to get some info about TV programming via FiOS and it looks like I have to choose from either "FiOS TV" or "DirecTV" service through Verizon. Problem is they don't show any side-by-side comparison of the two.

My questions are basically:

1. Are they both equal in PQ?
2. Do they offer comparable HD channel selections?
3. What do most people on this forum get?

Thanks
1. Not by a long shot. FIOS is much better.
2. At this time I think FIOS has a better HD selecction but hard to say long term. One big plus for FIOS for me is that my local sports network (Comcast SportsNet) won't let DirecTV have their feed but FIOS carries it. Anyway, the FIOS HD has much better PQ than DirecTV.
3. FIOS

I think that the DirecTV that FIOS offers is just to consoldate the billing. (Could be wrong, but I don't think so.) You still need to make sure you have line of sight to the satellites, install a satellite dish, etc.

I switched from DirecTV to FIOS and the better PQ is astounding.

Anyone else having problems with FIOS this morning? Several channels are out here in Plano, Texas. I'm wondering if this is related to the preparations to send us the new IMG?

I'll answer my own question: yes, it was more than just my house. However, the problem cleared up at 3pm sharp.

You've got to keep all this in perspective. We've heard a lot about DirecTV's new D10 and D11 satellites and how they will provide capacity for 100-150 new HD channels. Best case scenario (8PSK @ 3/4 FEC), these new satellites only provide a total of 1.708 Gbps national bandwidth. If DirecTV uses QPSK, that figure will be 20+% less.



But isn't that additional Directv 1.708 Gbps bandwidth funneled in to an mpeg4 pipe? Compared to FIOS with its current mpeg2, that's more like 3.4 Gbps if this kind of math equates.

Question: I understand they run fiber optic to the house and from there (where it enters the house) to the box it's regular coax, am I correct? Can fiber optic not be run from where it enters the house on to the STB, etc.? Doesn't the coax defeat the increased significance of the fiber optic? Anybody have a "FIOS For Dummies" simple explanation for me? Verizon strung cable past my house a few weeks ago and I'm presuming it's fiber optic.

Question: I understand they run fiber optic to the house and from there (where it enters the house) to the box it's regular coax, am I correct? Can fiber optic not be run from where it enters the house on to the STB, etc.? Doesn't the coax defeat the increased significance of the fiber optic? Anybody have a "FIOS For Dummies" simple explanation for me? Verizon strung cable past my house a few weeks ago and I'm presuming it's fiber optic.

Fiber to your video center would be ideal but not cost effective for verizon. If they used pre made fiber cables the holes they would make would be larger then required for bare cable. If they used bare cable
the time required to make the ends up on site may not be cost effective.
As advertised on tv their box outputs a 20db signal from there any loss is in the house cable. For my installation they had to put in 4db attenuator at the first set due to the signal being to hot.
The end of the line had a 10 db signal this was after first going through a 4 way split then a 2 way split and then another 2 way split. According to the Fios tech they want to see a 10-12db signal at all boxes.
Since the install 5 months ago I have had 0 signal or install related issues.

Thanks for the reply! :)

For all the people out here who won't read this entire thread how about some simple questions:

Exactly how much better does FIOS HD look than anyone else's COMPRESSED HD?

Exactly how much better does FIOS SD look compared to anyone else's SD?

I currentlly own DISH and get all their channels except for the International ones.

I'd like to get FIOS but it currently isn't in my area.

If I could move to somewhere that had it would it be worth getting compared to everything else out there?

I know these may seem like dumb questions. I love HD on DISH but the compression is something that I've been able to see.

I wish FIOS would bind itself to a rule that it would never compress anything.

If I were king of America I would make compression against the law.

So tell me FIOS lovers--is FIOS worth moving to to get it?

Question: I understand they run fiber optic to the house and from there (where it enters the house) to the box it's regular coax, am I correct? Can fiber optic not be run from where it enters the house on to the STB, etc.? Doesn't the coax defeat the increased significance of the fiber optic?No.

There are no STBs or DVRs with fiber input.

At some point, you need an adapter to convert the fiber into a connection that is usable by your TV STBs and your PCs. That's exactly what the ONT does. The ONT takes the 860MHz RF overlay off the fiber's 1550nm wavelength and puts it on coax so STBs can use it. The ONT takes the downstream Internet off the 1490nm wavelength and the upstream Internet off 1310nm and merges them both into a single 100Mbps ethernet interface.

Running fiber inside the home would make no sense. It is not cost effective and as noted above, there are no STBs available to support it. PCs can't accept the fiber input so an adapter would be required. The ONT is that fiber->TV and fiber->Ethernet adapter. If you really want an indoor ONT, FiOS has those too.

But isn't that additional Directv 1.708 Gbps bandwidth funneled in to an mpeg4 pipe? Compared to FIOS with its current mpeg2, that's more like 3.4 Gbps if this kind of math equates.Well, that 1.708 Gbps is a best-case scenario. At the moment, they've only got half that since the DirecTV-11 satellite doesn't launch until December and won't be operational before January. Something could always go wrong with that launch.

Assuming nothing goes wrong with the new satellites, then I suppose you're right. The numbers are more comparable if you account for the fact that DirecTV is using MPEG-4 now and Verizon is still using MPEG-2. Of course, DirecTV only attains that 50% bandwidth savings with HDTV Lite. They can't reduce bitrates by 50% with MPEG-4 and still maintain anything close to 100% original quality. The savings would be closer to 20-30% if they maintain the quality of the original source. There's no question that DirecTV could provide top quality with the new satellites if they want, especially in the short-to-intermediate term when they won't be stressed for capacity. The big question is, will they?

There is the issue of future capacity. FiOS can increase their capacity by using MPEG-4 with new channels in 2009, and gain virtually unlimited capacity with IPTV some time after that. What can DirecTV do? DirecTV has to make due with that bandwidth for about five years, since they won't launch another satellite utilizing new spectrum before late 2011 or 2012. Until then, their only option is to increase compression.

DirecTV has the D12 satellite under construction, but that is just a spare in the event something goes wrong with D10 and D11; it can't be used to add additional capacity.

D* hasn't added any new channels yet. Dish Network added six, one of which FiOS already had and four of which show about 75% SD. A few channels (inc. History) are coming in September, but most of the majors are coming in October and November.

Verizon has plenty of capacity between CO and customer. Every FiOS system has 860MHz video bandwidth which translates to 135x38.8Mbps = 5.238 Gbps of QAM channel capacity. When you include the ~30 analog locals on each FiOS system, Verizon uses roughly 3.3 Gbps of that capacity today. Of that 3.3 Gbps in use, close to 2.0 Gbps of video channel data is currently sent from the centralized SuperHeadEnd (SHE) to every regional video hub (VHO). Before long, an OC-48 (2488 Mbps) will no longer be sufficient to get all the new channels to each VHO.

Verizon's infrastructure maps show an OC-192 from the VHO to each local office, but there's still a lot of supporting hardware necessary to take advantage of that capacity for channel delivery. I am sure others know more about what is required than I do.

There are reports that Verizon is still working to upgrade and install the hardware necessary to deliver significant new channels to the regional video hubs (VHOs) for distribution to local offices and then to customers. These upgrades may not be complete until some time in Q4 and it's not clear how many channels Verizon can add before then.

But they are using GPON now .....Wouldn't that give them much much more capacity then you factored?

But they are using GPON now .....Wouldn't that give them much much more capacity then you factored?To take advantage of GPON, you need (1) GPON cards in the central office and (2) a GPON ONT at the customer's home. Some COs may have GPON cards but as far as I know, all customers still have BPON ONTs. Those BPON ONTs will have to be replaced.

To answer your question, no, GPON does not do anything for FiOS TV (QAM) service because the 860MHz RF overlay does not change. Verizon could increase it, but the STBs and DVRs couldn't take advantage of it. Current Motorola STBs and DVRs support a maximum of 860MHz RF with 135 QAM channels, which is what Verizon uses today.

GPON will increase the Internet bandwidth shared by every 32 customers from 655Mbps to 2.4Gbps. That's an increase from ~20Mbps average per customer to ~75Mbps average per customer. That will make 100Mbps Internet plans possible. It will also make it possible for FiOS to deploy IPTV with multiple MPEG-4 HD streams per household at full quality.

Initially, I expect the GPON ONTs will only be available to business customers who order 50/20, 100/20, etc Internet plans. At some point, all new customer installs will use GPON ONTs. I would expect Verizon to upgrade existing ONTs when they deploy the new MPEG-4 STBs and DVRs in 2009.

For all the people out here who won't read this entire thread how about some simple questions:

Exactly how much better does FIOS HD look than anyone else's COMPRESSED HD?

Exactly how much better does FIOS SD look compared to anyone else's SD?

I currentlly own DISH and get all their channels except for the International ones.

I'd like to get FIOS but it currently isn't in my area.

If I could move to somewhere that had it would it be worth getting compared to everything else out there?

I know these may seem like dumb questions. I love HD on DISH but the compression is something that I've been able to see.

I wish FIOS would bind itself to a rule that it would never compress anything.

If I were king of America I would make compression against the law.

So tell me FIOS lovers--is FIOS worth moving to to get it?

IMHO, there are already enough posts on this site and others like it for you to make a decision. How many more "it's great" does a person need?

For all the people out here who won't read this entire thread how about some simple questions:

Exactly how much better does FIOS HD look than anyone else's COMPRESSED HD?

Exactly how much better does FIOS SD look compared to anyone else's SD?

I currentlly own DISH and get all their channels except for the International ones.

I'd like to get FIOS but it currently isn't in my area.

If I could move to somewhere that had it would it be worth getting compared to everything else out there?

I know these may seem like dumb questions. I love HD on DISH but the compression is something that I've been able to see.

I wish FIOS would bind itself to a rule that it would never compress anything.

If I were king of America I would make compression against the law.

So tell me FIOS lovers--is FIOS worth moving to to get it?

Art, it's difficult to answer that question given all the different cable operators and their different compression rates. I can make comparisons between FIOS, Directv, Dish and Cablevision since I've had them all.

Compared to Directv, there is simply no comparison. FIOS is much better in both HD & SD. With some SD channels it's like day & night. For HD, there's virtually no pixelliation with fast movement, scenes with explosions etc. These were things that drove me nuts with Directv.

Compared to Dish, which I had about 2 years ago for only a couple of weeks as a test, FIOS SD is much better than Dish. Dish, like Directv, has SD that's a blurry mess on many/most channels. When I had Dish, they weren't down-rezzing the HD signal as they had been doing recently. I understand they've restored full-rez on some channels, but I honestly don't know what the state of affairs is today on Dish in terms of HD. I don't have any interest in Dish so I don't venture on to those threads these days. But suffice is to say that FIOS HD is consistent across the board, no compession, no bit-rate starving, just a clean picture. SD is generally very good, with some channels excellent and approaching DVD quality.

Compared to Cablevision, FIOS is still better, but the degree of difference is not as great. I found that despite the moaning about cable quality, Cablevision did a pretty good job with picture quality. However when I left they were still missing many HD channels. They've since gotten some of those but are still lacking HDNet, HDNet Movies etc.

An incomplete answer, but one that is necessitated by geography. There's only so many service providers in one geographical area. I think for me it was worth the move to FIOS and I still think it is. If they don't provide many more HD channels as D* is planning to do, I might feel differently in 6 months to a year. On the other hand, adding those channels at the expense of PQ would also be unacceptible ;)

That's exactly what the ONT does.

ONT??? :confused:

ONT??? :confused:

Optical Network Terminal - the white box that verizon puts on your house to break out phone, internet and TV signals.

ONT??? :confused:
ONT = Optical Network Terminal. This box is usually placed on the outside of the house or inside at the service area. The fiber optic cable goes to the ONT. The ONT converts the optical signals to electrical with connectors for the phone (POTS), RF connector for cable and CAT-5 for internet. For Fios TV, the co-axial cable run from inside the house is connected to the ONT.

We need a FAQ at the top of this thread or link to a well written web site that explains all this in understandable terms, photos, and diagrams (not a fluff PR website either). The wikipedia entry for Verizon Fios, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_Fios, covers the bases to a large extent but it could be improved for those who want to understand how it is hooked up at a typical house or townhouse.

Optical Network Terminal - the white box that verizon puts on your house to break out phone, internet and TV signals.

I wouldn't have guessed that one!

Thanks Ken Ross for answering my dumb question--I had never been to this area of the forum before.

For some others who might have wondered why I asked such a retarded question: The reason I asked it is because at the Satellite Forum I had gotten contradictory answers and sometimes when you look for a simple answer to a simple question people that know much more about it can't answer it--they know too much to teach the retarded.

Now I could get really retarded but if I'm really in search of High Definition then I should pursue class as well. I hope that Highly Defines what this FIOS retard means--I tried not to Compress anything!

As some of you might know, BTN is launching on August 30. DirecTV and AT&T U-Verse will be launching the channel as part of their basic package while Comcast will not offer it at all due to some complications in negotiations. My questions:

1. Has anyone heard the details about BTN's negotiations with VZ, SPECIFICALLY, for the DC area?
2. BTN wants to have the channel offered as basic. Is it likely that VZ will go along with this for people outside of the Conference footprint (which is basically the Midwest/Penn.)?

A couple links for those interested:

http://www.mgoblue.com/document_disp...cument_id=7324
http://pennstate.scout.com/2/671599.html

If they don't provide many more HD channels as D* is planning to do, I might feel differently in 6 months to a year. On the other hand, adding those channels at the expense of PQ would also be unacceptible ;)

My predicament entirely. Parents have FiOS and love it. PQ far surpasses D*, BUT when the major network HD channels go live this fall, it's going to make for a tough decision.

1. HD-Lite versions of the channels i watch and possible artifacting/signal loss during storms

or

2. Clean, clear FiOS tv that includes the DVR for less than what I'm paying now and has more potential down the line for HD and other tech (IPTV)

i need the 5LNB dish and b band converter to get the new channels this fall with D* and i was told that D* would extend my contract. if that's true, that REALLY pisses me off. Why should i have to extend my contract to get programming i'm entitled to just because the technology that D* employs to deliver programming is finite and has to be added to and upgraded when they want to provide more content?

To take advantage of GPON, you need (1) GPON cards in the central office and (2) a GPON ONT at the customer's home. Some COs may have GPON cards but as far as I know, all customers still have BPON ONTs. Those BPON ONTs will have to be replaced.

To answer your question, no, GPON does not do anything for FiOS TV (QAM) service because the 860MHz RF overlay does not change. Verizon could increase it, but the STBs and DVRs couldn't take advantage of it. Current Motorola STBs and DVRs support a maximum of 860MHz RF with 135 QAM channels, which is what Verizon uses today.

GPON will increase the Internet bandwidth shared by every 32 customers from 655Mbps to 2.4Gbps. That's an increase from ~20Mbps average per customer to ~75Mbps average per customer. That will make 100Mbps Internet plans possible. It will also make it possible for FiOS to deploy IPTV with multiple MPEG-4 HD streams per household at full quality.

Initially, I expect the GPON ONTs will only be available to business customers who order 50/20, 100/20, etc Internet plans. At some point, all new customer installs will use GPON ONTs. I would expect Verizon to upgrade existing ONTs when they deploy the new MPEG-4 STBs and DVRs in 2009.

But 100mb/20mb plans are already possible on the current system.
I heard verizon is using GPON on all new CO and home and it upgrading the wires to GPON.

Luckily as you say the new MPEG-4 STBs in 2009 and the analog shutoof should give them enough bandwidth for all know channels to be in HD

OK so now what in the heck is this?

I'm in the DC area, we went to IMG about a week ago. Everything was OK (well as ok as you can be with the new package) until tonight.

Now the main DVR works fine but all three standard boxes are freaking out. If I push Channel-up it goes up and then pops back to cartoon network. Every time I try to switch channels it pops back to Cartoon network. We get no sound, most of the time no picture either, when we do get a picture it is in a pip sized window in the upper right corner. On demand does not work and it does not show and of the recordings on the DVR....

I've tried a cold reboot, no help there.

Grrrrrrrr... Computer glitches I can deal with but TV is just supposed to work...

Does anyone know if FiOS is planning on adding TBS-HD in time for the MLB playoffs? Can't wait for baseball in HD, we don't get much here in the DC area.

P.S. sorry if this is a repost

Luckily as you say the new MPEG-4 STBs in 2009 and the analog shutoof should give them enough bandwidth for all know channels to be in HD

What affect, if any, will FiOS MPEG-4 have on other types of boxes attached to FiOS...such as Tivo?

What affect, if any, will FiOS MPEG-4 have on other types of boxes attached to FiOS...such as Tivo?None, I expect. Both the Series3 and TivoHD have decoders with MPEG-4 support.

But 100mb/20mb plans are already possible on the current system.
I heard verizon is using GPON on all new CO and home and it upgrading the wires to GPON. The same wires support BPON and GPON. It's the OLT (at central office) and ONT (at customer's home) that's different. I believe some newer OLTs can operate in either GPON or BPON mode, but I'm not sure about that.

Verizon's most commonly deployed ONT is the Motorola 612 and that is a BPON-only. Verizon is probably waiting for the cost of GPON ONTs to fall before deploying them en mass.

Verizon top business plan is 50/10. Plans with 100/20 may be possible with BPON, but it would be pretty wasteful, equipment-wise, to stick just 6-12 customers on an OLT.

Had a problem last night recording a show on SD where the audio dropped out about 15 minutes into an hour program and never returned. I rechecked my receiver to TV connection, that's fine. Any ideas?

As some of you might know, BTN is launching on August 30. DirecTV and AT&T U-Verse will be launching the channel as part of their basic package while Comcast will not offer it at all due to some complications in negotiations. My questions:

1. Has anyone heard the details about BTN's negotiations with VZ, SPECIFICALLY, for the DC area?
2. BTN wants to have the channel offered as basic. Is it likely that VZ will go along with this for people outside of the Conference footprint (which is basically the Midwest/Penn.)?

A couple links for those interested:

http://www.mgoblue.com/document_disp...cument_id=7324
http://pennstate.scout.com/2/671599.html


Thanks for the links, I couldn't open up the mgoblue, but the Penn St. link is a recent interview w the BTN president, which was very interesting . I am from Indiana, so lack of IU football coverage is not going to create an uproar, but just wait until basketball season starts!!

Does anyone know if FiOS is planning on adding TBS-HD in time for the MLB playoffs? Can't wait for baseball in HD, we don't get much here in the DC area.
No one replied to this because we don't know. Verizon has said nothing about when they will add more HD channels. With the four new Discovery related HD channels that started up on Dish some 10 days ago, A&E-HD, Versus/Golf-HD, TBS-HD & History-HD starting up around Sept. 1, and others starting up in September, Verizon is going to be well behind the DBS providers on national HD channels very soon.

My hope is that they are waiting for TBS-HD, History-HD and others to start up in early September, so they can add them all in one series of updates starting by no later than mid-September. But they appear to be focusing on rolling out the buggy and incomplete IMG software. Another problem is that they did not add much space for new HD channels when they did the channel re-alignment back in the spring. They will have to do a major re-alignment to make room for all the new HD channels that are coming later this year and channel re-alignments require at least 30 days notice.

There's space for 25 channels or so in the current lineup. There's no reason to assume that Verizon has to realign until a substantial number of those channels have been filled, and we're still months away from there being 25 new channels available at this point.

Ultimately, I'd think Verizon's plan would be to secure as many agreements as possible in the coming months so that they can do one, long-term realignment by the first of the year.

There's space for 25 channels or so in the current lineup. There's no reason to assume that Verizon has to realign until a substantial number of those channels have been filled, and we're still months away from there being 25 new channels available at this point.
Verizon is ok for the channels that are starting up in September, but not for long after. Do the analysis of the HD channel line-up in the 801 to 859 range. I figure 801 to 819 is reserved for locals. The locals go up to 817 in Mercer county, NJ where they get the NYC and Philadelphia stations. The gap after NFL Network HD on 828 from 829 to 832 appears to be reserved for RSNs. Mercer county has 3 of them on 829, 830, 831. That leaves 820 to 824, 842 to 844, 846 to 850, maybe adding 819, 820 in a pinch. With SD local sub-channels starting at 860, there is not much room for all the HBO and Starz HD channels which will begin to roll out this fall. A major channel re-alignment for an HD channel block will be in order before they can add all the channels that have started up and will be starting up in the next 3 months. Verizon should already have agreements in place with most of them or else they will start losing HD customers to D*, E*, and even Comcast & TWC.

Anyone know why FiOS-TV only carries 3 of the many Fox regional college sports channels (Atlantic, Central, Pacific)? This really is strange since FiOS has a premium sports package (which I have and pay extra for) and it is incomplete. D* has them all.:confused:

Verizon is ok for the channels that are starting up in September, but not for long after. Do the analysis of the HD channel line-up in the 801 to 859 range. I figure 801 to 819 is reserved for locals. The locals go up to 817 in Mercer county, NJ where they get the NYC and Philadelphia stations. The gap after NFL Network HD on 828 from 829 to 832 appears to be reserved for RSNs. Mercer county has 3 of them on 829, 830, 831. That leaves 820 to 824, 842 to 844, 846 to 850, maybe adding 819, 820 in a pinch. With SD local sub-channels starting at 860, there is not much room for all the HBO and Starz HD channels which will begin to roll out this fall. A major channel re-alignment for an HD channel block will be in order before they can add all the channels that have started up and will be starting up in the next 3 months. Verizon should already have agreements in place with most of them or else they will start losing HD customers to D*, E*, and even Comcast & TWC.

Hmm, my mistake. The Verizon FiOS page (http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/channel+lineup/channel+lineup.htm), says that only 801-809 are reserved for locals.

But either way, don't forget that channels 856-859 are also available in the pinch.

Anyone know why FiOS-TV only carries 3 of the many Fox regional college sports channels (Atlantic, Central, Pacific)? This really is strange since FiOS has a premium sports package (which I have and pay extra for) and it is incomplete. D* has them all.:confused:

You're confusing something there. Fox has something they offer called Fox College Sports. There are 3 channels of FCS programming: Atlantic, Central and Pacific. These carrly a lot of programming from the FSN regional sports channals, but they are specifically programmed for the FCS national offering.

If you want the umpteen Fox Sports Net (FSN) channels, you'll have to go with Directv or Dish. They are not offered on cable.

No one replied to this because we don't know. Verizon has said nothing about when they will add more HD channels. With the four new Discovery related HD channels that started up on Dish some 10 days ago, A&E-HD, Versus/Golf-HD, TBS-HD & History-HD starting up around Sept. 1, and others starting up in September, Verizon is going to be well behind the DBS providers on national HD channels very soon.

My hope is that they are waiting for TBS-HD, History-HD and others to start up in early September, so they can add them all in one series of updates starting by no later than mid-September. But they appear to be focusing on rolling out the buggy and incomplete IMG software. Another problem is that they did not add much space for new HD channels when they did the channel re-alignment back in the spring. They will have to do a major re-alignment to make room for all the new HD channels that are coming later this year and channel re-alignments require at least 30 days notice.

I don't think they'll have to do a major channel re-alignment to add more HD channels. Verizon lists 801-809 as local HD channels. 829-832 seems to be reserved for regional sports HD channels. Aside from that, 860 is reserved for NBC Weather Plus and 861-883 is reserved for other local digital channels like The Tube.

That means they could add 27 new HD channels from 810-824, 842-844, 846-850 and 856-859 without moving anyone.

The only new HD channel that I know they're going to add is Si-HD when it launches in 2008. As we know from the last set of HD additions, it could be a while before we hear anything on other channels.

Verizon's focus right now is on adding new cities and rolling out the new program guide.

It sounds like my idea of slowly getting FIOS TV is a good I deal. I plan on getting it and only using it with my TiVoHD at first. I'll keep my three Series 3 boxes with Comcast for a while and see how it goes with the one TiVoHD on FIOS.
Has FIOS started having HD On Demand movies yet? That is the only reason I need to get their HD STB. I will never watch an SD On Demand movie.

Well - I was informed from multiple non-CSR sources last week that there won't be any new HD until Q4 "at least" - and for you sports fans - Big Ten and Vs. / Golf aren't even being considered.

All of the "infrastructure" posts in the past week are correct - VZ's been sitting on their asses all year - despite the news heard monthly about the new HD's coming out this fall - and now will need to do major upgrades (which have been described in this thread) in order to add much of anything.

So, yes - VZ will definitely be behind the satellite provider offerings within the next month or so.

It was a very disappointing confirmation to receive this info from VZ. I really thought maybe they'd finally be proactive - but it appears the management of the network is lacking.

Well - I was informed from multiple non-CSR sources last week that there won't be any new HD until Q4 "at least" - and for you sports fans - Big Ten and Vs. / Golf aren't even being considered.

All of the "infrastructure" posts in the past week are correct - VZ's been sitting on their asses all year - despite the news heard monthly about the new HD's coming out this fall - and now will need to do major upgrades (which have been described in this thread) in order to add much of anything.

So, yes - VZ will definitely be behind the satellite provider offerings within the next month or so.

It was a very disappointing confirmation to receive this info from VZ. I really thought maybe they'd finally be proactive - but it appears the management of the network is lacking.

Well, that sucks....I guess that means no playoffs in HD on TBS.

It was a very disappointing confirmation to receive this info from VZ. I really thought maybe they'd finally be proactive - but it appears the management of the network is lacking.

Verizon and proactive. A contradiction. They were supposed to add 35 international channels last November and had press releases all over. 10 months later, not a single international channel has been added. In fact some of the MTV channels ( international) have been removed.

Well - I was informed from multiple non-CSR sources last week that there won't be any new HD until Q4 "at least" - and for you sports fans - Big Ten and Vs. / Golf aren't even being considered.

All of the "infrastructure" posts in the past week are correct - VZ's been sitting on their asses all year - despite the news heard monthly about the new HD's coming out this fall - and now will need to do major upgrades (which have been described in this thread) in order to add much of anything.

So, yes - VZ will definitely be behind the satellite provider offerings within the next month or so.

It was a very disappointing confirmation to receive this info from VZ. I really thought maybe they'd finally be proactive - but it appears the management of the network is lacking.


They are a bunch of clowns. What a joke. Now you know why I call them Verizoff.

Well I hope they at least deliver on the 30/5 internet tier I'm getting. I'm waiting for the tech right now for my initial FIOS installation. Hopefully they don't screw me and decide not to show up.

Well I hope they at least deliver on the 30/5 internet tier I'm getting. I'm waiting for the tech right now for my initial FIOS installation. Hopefully they don't screw me and decide not to show up.

I have had their 30/5 internet since the beginning here and it is great. One word of caution though: the FiOS internet speed is really there, but the individual website server speed and congestion enroute from the source may cause a low reading on web speed test sites. One interesting example is that whenever I test my speed with the VZ test site, it almost always gives me the slowest speed reading. Others go off the chart high. It also makes a big difference which land route you select in the test. Bottom line: I am happy with FiOS-TV/Internet/Phone (except the IMG :D ).

You're confusing something there. Fox has something they offer called Fox College Sports. There are 3 channels of FCS programming: Atlantic, Central and Pacific. These carrly a lot of programming from the FSN regional sports channals, but they are specifically programmed for the FCS national offering.

If you want the umpteen Fox Sports Net (FSN) channels, you'll have to go with Directv or Dish. They are not offered on cable.

I am not confusing anything. Your post says exactly the same thing mine does: FiOS has 3 (A,C,P) and D* has many. I also stated I already had the FiOS FCS pkg and knew about the D* offering. My question remains: Why doesn't FiOS have the whole enchilada?

I am not confusing anything. Your post says exactly the same thing mine does: FiOS has 3 (A,C,P) and D* has many. I also stated I already had the FiOS FCS pkg and knew about the D* offering. My question remains: Why doesn't FiOS have the whole enchilada?

It was somewhat answered. No cable company has it.

Andy,

"We typically don’t talk about channel additions until we’re ready to launch the new channels. We’ll just need to ask for your continued patience. We’ll announce some new HD in due time"

I am not confusing anything. Your post says exactly the same thing mine does: FiOS has 3 (A,C,P) and D* has many. I also stated I already had the FiOS FCS pkg and knew about the D* offering. My question remains: Why doesn't FiOS have the whole enchilada?

I think, but could be wrong, that cable companies(FiOS included) are only allowed to show local regional sports networks because of franchise issues, whereas satellite has no franchise agreements so are free to include other regions as well.

On the Verizon website it says they offer "FiOS TV" and "DirecTV service available through Verizon."

Does "DirecTV service available through Verizon" mean that D* is being piped via a FiOS cable, i.e. no dish, no compression and no line of site issues to worry about?

Well I hope they at least deliver on the 30/5 internet tier I'm getting. I'm waiting for the tech right now for my initial FIOS installation. Hopefully they don't screw me and decide not to show up.


Well they screwed me. They cancelled my order this morning without even trying to contact me. They say the fiber isn't in place yet I was here 9 days ago when they ran the two strands from the inground box to the utility area outside my window. It's coiled up and waiting for them. So I'm rather pissed right now considering I cut my vacation short when I made this appointment. And they even called and left a message confiming the appointment a couple of days ago. So now they better be at my place first thing on Saturday and install the TV service(even though I haven't ordered it yet) at the same time. I'll have to try and get some credits as well.
This is just crazy. How do you cancel an order then tell me they tried to get a hold of me, yet I have no messages on my cell or home phone. Yet there is a confimation message. This is just piss poor service.

I think, but could be wrong, that cable companies(FiOS included) are only allowed to show local regional sports networks because of franchise issues, whereas satellite has no franchise agreements so are free to include other regions as well.

I don't think so because here in Virginia FiOS is giving us all 3 regions: A,P,C.

I don't think so because here in Virginia FiOS is giving us all 3 regions: A,P,C.

That is Fox College Sports. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_College_Sports

Well they screwed me. They cancelled my order this morning without even trying to contact me. They say the fiber isn't in place yet I was here 9 days ago when they ran the two strands from the inground box to the utility area outside my window. It's coiled up and waiting for them. So I'm rather pissed right now considering I cut my vacation short when I made this appointment. And they even called and left a message confiming the appointment a couple of days ago. So now they better be at my place first thing on Saturday and install the TV service(even though I haven't ordered it yet) at the same time. I'll have to try and get some credits as well.
This is just crazy. How do you cancel an order then tell me they tried to get a hold of me, yet I have no messages on my cell or home phone. Yet there is a confimation message. This is just piss poor service.

You are right to be angry.
One note: The FiOS-TV service cannot be activated without the FiOS-internet signal. The TV part is interactive with the Internet part (no separate charge). Even so, you are not required to subscribe to the Internet service. If you don't subscribe to the FiOS-Internet service, but still have the FiOS-TV service, then you only pay for the TV part.

Well - I was informed from multiple non-CSR sources last week that there won't be any new HD until Q4 "at least" - and for you sports fans - Big Ten and Vs. / Golf aren't even being considered.

All of the "infrastructure" posts in the past week are correct - VZ's been sitting on their asses all year - despite the news heard monthly about the new HD's coming out this fall - and now will need to do major upgrades (which have been described in this thread) in order to add much of anything.

So, yes - VZ will definitely be behind the satellite provider offerings within the next month or so.

It was a very disappointing confirmation to receive this info from VZ. I really thought maybe they'd finally be proactive - but it appears the management of the network is lacking.

Very disappointing. They had all this time to prepare for the new channels and have done nothing. Now who does this remind me of? :rolleyes:

It was somewhat answered. No cable company has it.

Nope.
"No cable company has it." is a statement of fact.
It does not answer the question: "Why?"

I think, but could be wrong, that cable companies(FiOS included) are only allowed to show local regional sports networks because of franchise issues, whereas satellite has no franchise agreements so are free to include other regions as well.I don't think so because here in Virginia FiOS is giving us all 3 regions: A,P,C.
I don't see you using the word college here. I see you claiming you have three regional sports networks.

That is Fox College Sports. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_College_Sports

Let me rephrase my issue: Cable and satellite companies have FSN (Fox Sports network) which is comprised of numerous small regions with outstanding sports coverage available country-wide. FiOS only has FCS (Fox College Sports) which has only 3 big regions (A, C, P) which limits the number of simultaneous sports programs. Why doesn't FiOS have FSN?

Let me rephrase my issue: Cable and satellite companies have FSN (Fox Sports network) which is comprised of numerous small regions with outstanding sports coverage available country-wide. FiOS only has FCS (Fox College Sports) which has only 3 big regions (A, C, P) which limits the number of simultaneous sports programs. Why doesn't FiOS have FSN?
I'm actually more confused now. :D You don't have your local FSN, or you want to be able to have access to all of the FSNs like D* and E* provide? If you want all of them, is it possible that it is not made available to cable companies? It appears the Fox College Sports package is only available to cable companies and not dish.

I am not confusing anything. Your post says exactly the same thing mine does: FiOS has 3 (A,C,P) and D* has many. I also stated I already had the FiOS FCS pkg and knew about the D* offering. My question remains: Why doesn't FiOS have the whole enchilada?

I'll try to explain this again.

There are two entities here:
1. Fox College Sports
2. Fox Sports Net regional networks

Fox College Sports is a national program service of 3 channels that you can get all over the country on cable or satellite. FCS does pick a lot of programming from the FSN regional networks, but it's mainly college sports and I'm sure there's compensation to the colleges for carrying those games on FCS too.

On cable - and Fios - you can only get your local Fox Sports Net regional network. That's usually stipulated as part of their agreements with sports franchises. For example, I'm sure the Texas Rangers wouldn't really want folks to be easily able to tune over on all the cable systems in the area to FSN West to see the Angels play the Rangers. Nor do I think the Angels want folks watching them play the Rangers on FSN Southwest. It would essentially be like each team signing their own national cable network agreement.

However, satellite companies like Dish and Directv have no choice but to put all of them up on their birds so people in local communities can get their regional network. They have also made a deal with FSN to let people pay an extra price to get them all no matter where they live. I'm quite certain that the sports franchises that have agreements with these networks had to sign off on that deal and probably reap some added financial benefit from it.

That's why you won't see Fios adding the complete package of all of the regional networks. You'll just get your local FSN network.

I hope that explains it. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

Anyone know why FiOS-TV only carries 3 of the many Fox regional college sports channels (Atlantic, Central, Pacific)? This really is strange since FiOS has a premium sports package (which I have and pay extra for) and it is incomplete. D* has them all.:confused:

I am not confusing anything. Your post says exactly the same thing mine does: FiOS has 3 (A,C,P) and D* has many. I also stated I already had the FiOS FCS pkg and knew about the D* offering. My question remains: Why doesn't FiOS have the whole enchilada?

I don't think so because here in Virginia FiOS is giving us all 3 regions: A,P,C.

I'm actually more confused now. :D You don't have your local FSN, or you want to be able to have access to all of the FSNs like D* and E* provide? If you want all of them, is it possible that it is not made available to cable companies? It appears the Fox College Sports package is only available to cable companies and not dish.

The copied quotes of mine are shown above. They clearly are in disagreement with your comments. Since it is obvious that you and I are on different wave lengths, I think it best that I drop this discussion with you. No harm. No foul.

I'll try to explain this again.

There are two entities here:
1. Fox College Sports
2. Fox Sports Net regional networks

Fox College Sports is a national program service of 3 channels that you can get all over the country on cable or satellite. FCS does pick a lot of programming from the FSN regional networks, but it's mainly college sports and I'm sure there's compensation to the colleges for carrying those games on FCS too.

On cable - and Fios - you can only get your local Fox Sports Net regional network. That's usually stipulated as part of their agreements with sports franchises. For example, I'm sure the Texas Rangers wouldn't really want folks to be easily able to tune over on all the cable systems in the area to FSN West to see the Angels play the Rangers. Nor do I think the Angels want folks watching them play the Rangers on FSN Southwest. It would essentially be like each team signing their own national cable network agreement.

However, satellite companies like Dish and Directv have no choice but to put all of them up on their birds so people in local communities can get their regional network. They have also made a deal with FSN to let people pay an extra price to get them all no matter where they live. I'm quite certain that the sports franchises that have agreements with these networks had to sign off on that deal and probably reap some added financial benefit from it.

That's why you won't see Fios adding the complete package of all of the regional networks. You'll just get your local FSN network.

I hope that explains it. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

I feel like I was saying all of that, without repeating your statement about the local agreements. Are you sure that FCS is available on satellite?

For anyone curious, still no IPG here in N.Y....not even a mailing.

You are right to be angry.
One note: The FiOS-TV service cannot be activated without the FiOS-internet signal. The TV part is interactive with the Internet part (no separate charge). Even so, you are not required to subscribe to the Internet service. If you don't subscribe to the FiOS-Internet service, but still have the FiOS-TV service, then you only pay for the TV part.

Well I got it rescheduled for Saturday September 8th. They had actually canceled my entire order for some reason. I really wanted it today but at least they did offer me some compensation. A $100 Amex gift card(4 to 6 weeks though for delivery)I was already getting my first month of internet service free. But they are going to give me my first month of TV service free plus 3 movie channels free for the first month. I'm only hooking up one TiVo initially and the free month of TV will also include the two cable cards for the TiVoHD so at least I can try out the HD movie channels for a month and compare them to Comcast. They actually offered to come out sometime tomorrow although it would have been an 8to5 appointment and there is no way I could wait around all day since I have plans. At least on the 8th I'm supposed to be the first one on the schedule.

They also said there were two ONT they could install. The CAT5e requires a different one. I told them to make sure I can connect my CAT5e cable since I'm running a bundle with two CAT5e cables and one RG6 cable to the ONT. I would have already run it if I knew where the ONT was going to be installed. I guess I need to make sure they don't screw me on the ONT. I have no desire to use their router since I already have 20+ devices set up on my Dlink router with my Gigabit network and have no desire to use theirs(especially since it's not gigabit). Although I guess they still have to install it for the On Demand features from the HD STB.

They probably don't want to add to the thousands of complaint calls.

I'll try to explain this again.

There are two entities here:
1. Fox College Sports
2. Fox Sports Net regional networks

Fox College Sports is a national program service of 3 channels that you can get all over the country on cable or satellite. FCS does pick a lot of programming from the FSN regional networks, but it's mainly college sports and I'm sure there's compensation to the colleges for carrying those games on FCS too.

On cable - and Fios - you can only get your local Fox Sports Net regional network. That's usually stipulated as part of their agreements with sports franchises. For example, I'm sure the Texas Rangers wouldn't really want folks to be easily able to tune over on all the cable systems in the area to FSN West to see the Angels play the Rangers. Nor do I think the Angels want folks watching them play the Rangers on FSN Southwest. It would essentially be like each team signing their own national cable network agreement.

However, satellite companies like Dish and Directv have no choice but to put all of them up on their birds so people in local communities can get their regional network. They have also made a deal with FSN to let people pay an extra price to get them all no matter where they live. I'm quite certain that the sports franchises that have agreements with these networks had to sign off on that deal and probably reap some added financial benefit from it.

That's why you won't see Fios adding the complete package of all of the regional networks. You'll just get your local FSN network.

I hope that explains it. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

First: There is no local FSN NETWORK listed on the FiOS-TV Guide webpage. There are only the 3 FCS regional CHANNELS (300, 301, 302) and the PPV ESPN game CHANNELS.
Second: I had all the D* FSN regionals before moving to FiOS so I know the difference between FSN and FCS. That is why I asked the question.
Third: When D* shows a game across the country, they show a map of the USA before each broadcast which displays which parts of the country will get the show and which will not (blackouts).
Fourth: FSN is better than FCS because there are more channels and therefore more live COLLEGE football games are possible.
Fifth: I know what 'IS'. I do not know 'WHY'. I am still hoping that someone will answer the question: Why doesn't FiOS have all of the FSN (instead of FSN LITE...read FCS... which we have now) since we have to pay anyway whether it is FSN or FCS? At least give me a subscription chioce of which I can pay for.

I feel like I was saying all of that, without repeating your statement about the local agreements. Are you sure that FCS is available on satellite?

Actually, no.. I'm not sure. I thought it was. Either way, the basic structure of what it is remains true.

Actually, no.. I'm not sure. I thought it was. Either way, the basic structure of what it is remains true.
I don't think you can, I think FCS is exclusive to cable because they can't carry all of the FSNs for reasons you said. Satellite doesn't need it because they want to just sell you the package for all of the FSNs.

First: There is no local FSN NETWORK listed on the FiOS-TV Guide webpage. There are only the 3 FCS regional CHANNELS (300, 301, 302) and the PPV ESPN game CHANNELS.
Second: I had all the D* FSN regionals before moving to FiOS so I know the difference between FSN and FCS. That is why I asked the question.
Third: When D* shows a game across the country, they show a map of the USA before each broadcast which displays which parts of the country will get the show and which will not (blackouts).
Fourth: FSN is better than FCS because there are more channels and therefore more live COLLEGE football games are possible.
Fifth: I know what 'IS'. I do not know 'WHY'. I am still hoping that someone will answer the question: Why doesn't FiOS have all of the FSN (instead of FSN LITE...read FCS... which we have now) since we have to pay anyway whether it is FSN or FCS? At least give me a subscription chioce of which I can pay for.

Let me be clear: you can get your local regional sports network on Fios.
In my case, I get FSN Southwest on channel 65 here in Plano, Texas. I also get HD programming from FSN Southwest on 829.
In your case, you'll get 66 Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic on channel 66 andn Mid-Atlantic Sports Network on channel 67.

Click here (http://www22.verizon.com/NROneRetail/NR/rdonlyres/C629578A-232C-49E5-8D80-20A1DD36BDBC/0/VA_HamptonRoadsArea.pdf) for your Fios line-up in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia.

There is no national FSN network. The only thing close to that are the FCS channels.

To answer the question of "why" you can't choose any of the regional FSN's you want: Since Fios is delivered locally over fiber optic cable, they can't make national offerings of all the regional sports channels like Directv or Dish.

I don't think you can, I think FCS is exclusive to cable because they can't carry all of the FSNs for reasons you said. Satellite doesn't need it because they want to just sell you the package for all of the FSNs.

Of course, that makes a tremendous amount of sense. :-)

Let me be clear: you can get your local regional sports network on Fios.
In my case, I get FSN Southwest on channel 65 here in Plano, Texas. I also get HD programming from FSN Southwest on 829.
In your case, you'll get 66 Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic on channel 66 andn Mid-Atlantic Sports Network on channel 67.

Click here (http://www22.verizon.com/NROneRetail/NR/rdonlyres/C629578A-232C-49E5-8D80-20A1DD36BDBC/0/VA_HamptonRoadsArea.pdf) for your Fios line-up in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia.

There is no national FSN network. The only thing close to that are the FCS channels.

To answer the question of "why" you can't choose any of the regional FSN's you want: Since Fios is delivered locally over fiber optic cable, they can't make national offerings of all the regional sports channels like Directv or Dish.

Beam me up Scottie.

Maybe it took a not emotionally involved viewer to get this. On FIOS, no out of region FSN. Period. Done. Why? Local franchise rights. Period. Done. DId I miss something?

For anyone curious, still no IPG here in N.Y....not even a mailing.

From Verizon Central: http://netservices.verizon.net/portal/link/help/item?case=c30701
When will I get the new FiOS TV Interactive Media Guide?

Service Area Scheduled Upgrade
August - Northern VA, MA, MD, CA
September - Eastern PA, NJ, NY, TX

CA got their's last week.

On the Verizon website it says they offer "FiOS TV" and "DirecTV service available through Verizon."

Does "DirecTV service available through Verizon" mean that D* is being piped via a FiOS cable, i.e. no dish, no compression and no line of site issues to worry about?

No.....It basically means you get DirectTV from a dish....But they will put it on my verizon bill.

Why the rush to get the new IMG? haven't you been reading about all the bugs and issues? The old guide was less flashy but more functional IMHO. The promised update will hopefully resolve some, if not all of it's issues. If I were you I would prefer If they waited until they got it right.

For anyone curious, still no IPG here in N.Y....not even a mailing.
Count your blessings. Maybe by the time they roll out the new IMG in NY, you will get a new build with some bug fixes. Or maybe not.

From Verizon Central: http://netservices.verizon.net/portal/link/help/item?case=c30701
When will I get the new FiOS TV Interactive Media Guide?

Service Area Scheduled Upgrade
August - Northern VA, MA, MD, CA
September - Eastern PA, NJ, NY, TX

CA got their's last week.

Thanks Siersema. Looks like I could still be a month away from it. I hear you guys, no rush.

"We typically don’t talk about channel additions until we’re ready to launch the new channels. We’ll just need to ask for your continued patience. We’ll announce some new HD in due time"
A non-answer answer. A look at the expected DirecTV roll-out in September shows a lot of new HD channels. "Due time" for Verizon is before the end of September starting with TBS-HD for the MLB playoffs, CNN-HD because it is a high profile channel, Discovery HD, Versus for the NHL. I just hope the posts here on no sooner than 4th quarter means near October 1, not later.

Maybe it took a not emotionally involved viewer to get this. On FIOS, no out of region FSN. Period. Done. Why? Local franchise rights. Period. Done. DId I miss something?

No. You were perfect. You actually answered the question of 'Why?' without a lot of fluff.
Thank you.

I still do not understand the legal issue: If a mid-Atlantic college football team is playing on Saturday, I do not see the difference between showing UCLA football live on FCS (Pacific) which I can get here on the East Coast now or showing it live on one of the FSN western channels which I cannot get here due to 'local franchise rights'. I don't see how a team or conference can complain about one signal and not the other. Also, Murdoch runs both operations. Can you also help me by answering that question?

Just got a mailing that my Internet service is due to go up in price from my current $34.95 to $48 on October 29th. Any chance a call to them keeps me at the $35 level for 5/2 or am I going to have to bite the bullet?

FYI, in NOVA, have phone (very basic) ($25) + 5/2 internet
($35) + Premier TV ($62).

Just got a mailing that my Internet service is due to go up in price from my current $34.95 to $48 on October 29th. Any chance a call to them keeps me at the $35 level for 5/2 or am I going to have to bite the bullet?

FYI, in NOVA, have phone (very basic) ($25) + 5/2 internet
($35) + Premier TV ($62).

$13 increase? That is outrageous, that's about the biggest price increase I have ever seen from any company on internet fees. I would call and see if you can get a year long contract or something, that is the only way you could keep it from going up I think.

$13 increase? That is outrageous, that's about the biggest price increase I have ever seen from any company on internet fees. I would call and see if you can get a year long contract or something, that is the only way you could keep it from going up I think.

that's terrible. here I was thinking I already paid too much for FIOS (could not get them to give me the triple play deal). now a price increase? I'm in SoCal, but I suspect Californians won't be paying any less.

edit: between the DVR that records when it feels like, the improved program guide that isn't, radio silence on new HD channels, and the price increase, the FIOS honeymoon is so over. Right now I would advise anyone of thinking of switching to Fios to stay put. Only TWC (alas, my cable co) might be worse.

did I mention no HD on demand? right now, my fav new show, mad men, is on hd in demand on comcast and elsewhere, but not fios. ugh.

$13 increase? That is outrageous, that's about the biggest price increase I have ever seen from any company on internet fees. I would call and see if you can get a year long contract or something, that is the only way you could keep it from going up I think.
According to this report at dslreports, Fios sent out a poorly worded letter: http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/No-Your-FiOS-Rates-Arent-Rising-87044. You can keep the $39.99 rate from which you get the bundle $5 discount if you sign up a one year contract.

But, yea, the new IMG alone was enough to bring honeymoon period to end with Verizon. The total lack of official info on adding new HD channels only adds to the frustration.

that's terrible. here I was thinking I already paid too much for FIOS (could not get them to give me the triple play deal). now a price increase?Verizon didn't raise the price of its packages.

However, once your one-year contract runs out, you no longer get the discounts associated with that contract. Basically, Verizon is informing all customers that they will pay a higher price once their contract runs out and they become month-to-month (no commitment) subscribers.

If you want the bundle discounts to continue, you've got to commit to another year of service. Unfortunately, the Verizon letter doesn't make that very clear. I suspect Verizon will lose a number of customers as a result of that.

On the Verizon website it says they offer "FiOS TV" and "DirecTV service available through Verizon."

Does "DirecTV service available through Verizon" mean that D* is being piped via a FiOS cable, i.e. no dish, no compression and no line of site issues to worry about?

No. It means that if you are in an area where FIOS isn't available, they'll give you internet via DSL (or dialup) and TV through DirecTV (no different than getting it direct).

Verizon didn't raise the price of its packages.

However, once your one-year contract runs out, you no longer get the discounts associated with that contract. Basically, Verizon is informing all customers that they will pay a higher price once their contract runs out and they become month-to-month (no commitment) subscribers.

If you want the bundle discounts to continue, you've got to commit to another year of service. Unfortunately, the Verizon letter doesn't make that very clear. I suspect Verizon will lose a number of customers as a result of that.

I've called 3 times to get the triple play bundle. They either never heard of it or told me it wasn't available or I could not get it. I pay $167/month total for 5/2 internet, TV with 1 foreign lang. ($15), 1 DVR, 1 SD STB, and unlim phone. With the bundle, it would be $99+$15 for foreign lang. channel+DVR+tax, which should still be less than $167. I don't know how other people get the deal they get.

Verizon didn't raise the price of its packages.

However, once your one-year contract runs out, you no longer get the discounts associated with that contract. Basically, Verizon is informing all customers that they will pay a higher price once their contract runs out and they become month-to-month (no commitment) subscribers.

If you want the bundle discounts to continue, you've got to commit to another year of service. Unfortunately, the Verizon letter doesn't make that very clear. I suspect Verizon will lose a number of customers as a result of that.

That's good to know. I signed up for FiOS Internet for 2 years with no price increase. I live in Comcast-land. The multiple annual price increases gave me a permanent facial tic.

anyone notice that NFL football seems to be filmed/broadcast at a different speed then other programs/chans.

its hard to explain but the video just seems to be eitehr slower or faster or both then other chans and so far only for NFL football. on my smaller 42" tv its not as noticeable but on 67" it is very noticeable and looks very artificial and not preferable.

my wife said it looks like slow motion but thast not quite it. its hard to explain, it actually looks like fast motion at times.

it makes me think of blu ray and tvs that are capable at viewing the film like 24hz mode. problem is for this with football whatever it is which I have come to conclusion with some test thats its a combination of the programing/cable box and the tv and its size emphasizing the defect in video speed/signal.

it doesnt look good though and i doubt comcast has this problem for nfl football.

still tryign to get to t he bottom of what exactly it is and what i can change on the fios hd dvr box, tv or both to address this issue.

still tryign to get to t he bottom of what exactly it is and what i can change on the fios hd dvr box, tv or both to address this issue.Are you new to HDTV?

There are two primary sources for high-definition content.

High definition movies, series, and many documentaries are telecined (scanned) from film or acquired with native 1080p24 cameras. The 24 frames are then repeated over and over to fill the 1080i60 or 720p60 signal.

Concerts, sports, and other live events are done differently. They are acquired in either 1080i video (CBS, NBC, most RSNs) with 60 unique fields per second, or 720p video (FOX, ABC, ESPN) with 60 unique frames per second. There are no repeated fields or frames. This has a very different 'look' from the film and 24p cameras used for movies, series, and many documentaries. Comparing 1080i (CBS, NBC) and 720p (FOX, ABC, ESPN), the 720p60 format tends to be much smoother for motion, while the 1080i format tends to be more detailed. The NFL Network takes these ABC, NBC, CBS broadcasts -- which may be 720p or 1080i depending on network -- and converts them to 1080i for delivery via cable; this converted feed is generally not as good as the original feed, especially on content originally aired on ABC and FOX.

If what you are seeing would better be described as stutter, that is a bug that sometimes develops with the Motorola STBs. To eliminate that, switch the box to 720p output if you are using 1080i, and switch it to 1080i if you are now using 720p. Then turn the box on again and the stutter should be gone. You can then change it back to its previous setting.

CA got their's last week.
Yeah...and I am having a rough time with the HD DVR....it will not stay online. Worked OK for a couple of days...but now it is offline. Tech support set a ticket to second level and said they could do more without me being at home. We'll see.

Verizon FIOS has just been made available in my area. I reside in Long Island, NY in the town of Islip. And i was really looking foward to switching to FIOS over cable but, the pricing is not that very competitive. I currently get HD and DVR service from Cablevision. To order FIOS, you start off by getting a 42.99 package (mandatory if you want HD). HD is then an additional 9.99 per month, with Cablevision its free. DVR service is $4.99 in Cablevision, FIOS is 12.99 per month (box included).

But the number 1 reason for my interest in FIOS is picture quality. I am very dissapointed with the HD picture quality in cable but its cheap. I want to know from the people out there who switched from cable (particularly cablevision) to FIOS and saw a VAST improvement in HD quality that would warrant me to switch to FIOS for more money.

Thank you

Verizon FIOS has just been made available in my area. I reside in Long Island, NY in the town of Islip. And i was really looking foward to switching to FIOS over cable but, the pricing is not that very competitive. I currently get HD and DVR service from Cablevision. To order FIOS, you start off by getting a 42.99 package (mandatory if you want HD). HD is then an additional 9.99 per month, with Cablevision its free. DVR service is $4.99 in Cablevision, FIOS is 12.99 per month (box included).

But the number 1 reason for my interest in FIOS is picture quality. I am very dissapointed with the HD picture quality in cable but its cheap. I want to know from the people out there who switched from cable (particularly cablevision) to FIOS and saw a VAST improvement in HD quality that would warrant me to switch to FIOS for more money.
The way to look at the pricing is that you get all the national SD and HD channels with the $43/month package (other than the premium or special tiers). Verizon charges $5/month for a SD STB, $10/month for a HD STB, $13/month for a HD-DVR. You just pick which one you want. So it does gets expensive to have a HD STB or HD-DVR for multiple HD TVs. I do think Verizon should cut the monthly rate on the HD-STB to closer to that of the SD STB to be more competitive as households get a second or 3rd HDTV.

The movie package of $13/month for Showtime, Starz, TMC in HD along with all their SD channels and Encore, Flix, Sundance is a decent deal, IMO. I assume the movie package will also eventually include all the new Starz and SHO HD channels which will start firing up this fall whenever Verizon adds them. The HBO and Cinemax packages are expensive. Don't know what Cablevision charges for these.

I went from Adelphia (now Comcast) to Fios with a noticeable improvement in SD picture quality (all digital) and a more modest improvement in HD picture quality. I do know Adelphia was cramming 3 local HD stations into one QAM channel.

The bugs with the new IMG are irritating, but I figure Verizon will fix the worse bugs this fall. Because you do not have to worry about SDV with Verizon, if you hate the IMG or want more recording capacity, a TivoHD is a viable alternative that should be good for the next 3+ years. Verizon is $3/month for cable cards.

Verizon FIOS has just been made available in my area. I reside in Long Island, NY in the town of Islip. And i was really looking foward to switching to FIOS over cable but, the pricing is not that very competitive. I currently get HD and DVR service from Cablevision. To order FIOS, you start off by getting a 42.99 package (mandatory if you want HD). HD is then an additional 9.99 per month, with Cablevision its free. DVR service is $4.99 in Cablevision, FIOS is 12.99 per month (box included).Your breakdown of fees is not accurate.

The $42.99 package includes the 220+ digital channels and 20+ HD channels. There is no additional fee for HD channels. That price does not include the price of the set-top box.

The total cost of a HD STB is $9.99/mo. The total cost of the HD DVR is $12.99/mo ($3 more than the HD STB). If you have your own DVR like the TivoHD, the cost of each CableCard is $2.99/mo.

Cablevision offers various promos, but then so does FiOS. In some areas, Verizon offers TV+Internet for $80/mo (does not include price of DVR) with a two-year commitment. In NY, FiOS also offers 10/2 Internet, TV, and phone service for $99/mo. This is a good deal if you already pay for Verizon phone service, although be aware that price does not include the $10-$15 in taxes on phone service.

But the number 1 reason for my interest in FIOS is picture quality. I am very dissapointed with the HD picture quality in cable but its cheap. I want to know from the people out there who switched from cable (particularly cablevision) to FIOS and saw a VAST improvement in HD quality that would warrant me to switch to FIOS for more money.SD channels are a noticeable improvement with FiOS. At a quick glance, Charter HD PQ is close to FiOS HD PQ, but FiOS exhibits significantly less blocking. If blocking is something you notice, you will see a lot less of it on FiOS.

anyone notice that NFL football seems to be filmed/broadcast at a different speed then other programs/chans.

its hard to explain but the video just seems to be eitehr slower or faster or both then other chans and so far only for NFL football. on my smaller 42" tv its not as noticeable but on 67" it is very noticeable and looks very artificial and not preferable.

my wife said it looks like slow motion but thast not quite it. its hard to explain, it actually looks like fast motion at times.

it makes me think of blu ray and tvs that are capable at viewing the film like 24hz mode. problem is for this with football whatever it is which I have come to conclusion with some test thats its a combination of the programing/cable box and the tv and its size emphasizing the defect in video speed/signal.

it doesnt look good though and i doubt comcast has this problem for nfl football.

still tryign to get to t he bottom of what exactly it is and what i can change on the fios hd dvr box, tv or both to address this issue.

As bfdtv talks about, there are various aspects involved and it depends on exactly what you are watching.

So to narrow this down, first we need to know what you have the box/DVR set to output (1080i or 720p). Then see if you notice this issue on CBS/NBC/FOX or ABC/ESPN (or both).

Verizon FIOS has just been made available in my area. I reside in Long Island, NY in the town of Islip. And i was really looking foward to switching to FIOS over cable but, the pricing is not that very competitive. I currently get HD and DVR service from Cablevision. To order FIOS, you start off by getting a 42.99 package (mandatory if you want HD). HD is then an additional 9.99 per month, with Cablevision its free. DVR service is $4.99 in Cablevision, FIOS is 12.99 per month (box included).

But the number 1 reason for my interest in FIOS is picture quality. I am very dissapointed with the HD picture quality in cable but its cheap. I want to know from the people out there who switched from cable (particularly cablevision) to FIOS and saw a VAST improvement in HD quality that would warrant me to switch to FIOS for more money.

Thank you

Thought I'd chime in since I just converted from Cablevision to Fios early this week. I love the picture quality. As someone said, SD is noticeably better and HD is marginally better. I was greatly distracted by macroblocking caused by the compression in the cable service but no such problems with Fios! I'd dare say it's about as good as watching Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc minus the better audio. If you believe in quality over quantity like I do, make the jump and remember that every TV will probably want a box as you only get about 19 channels w/o it.

I have a 56 inch sammy dlp with a 2 plus chip. It is 720 p native, will I see a big or nominal diffrence with D*? Thanks in advance

Verizon FIOS has just been made available in my area. I reside in Long Island, NY in the town of Islip. And i was really looking foward to switching to FIOS over cable but, the pricing is not that very competitive. I currently get HD and DVR service from Cablevision. To order FIOS, you start off by getting a 42.99 package (mandatory if you want HD). HD is then an additional 9.99 per month, with Cablevision its free. DVR service is $4.99 in Cablevision, FIOS is 12.99 per month (box included).

But the number 1 reason for my interest in FIOS is picture quality. I am very dissapointed with the HD picture quality in cable but its cheap. I want to know from the people out there who switched from cable (particularly cablevision) to FIOS and saw a VAST improvement in HD quality that would warrant me to switch to FIOS for more money.

Thank you

I live on LI and I've had E*, D*, and Cablevision. I now have FiOS and the picture and price beats them all, hands down. At one point, I had D*, CV, and V at the same time and A/B/C comparisons prove V is superior. My only dissapointment is lack of specific HD channels. Most will be coming, but we'll never see MSG-HD or FSNY-HD on anything other than Cablevision.

I have a 56 inch sammy dlp with a 2 plus chip. It is 720 p native, will I see a big or nominal diffrence with D*? Thanks in advanceThe improvement on SD will be significant.

Since your display is 720p native, you won't see the same degree of difference that others with 1080p displays will see. However, you may see a slight improvement in resolution and there will be an obvious reduction in blocking. I assume you see blocking regularly with DirecTV. Most of that is eliminated with FiOS.

As the above poster suggested, PQ on many FiOS channels is more comparable to what you get with Blu-ray.

Does anyone know if Verizon has planned to expand the limit of how many TV connections can be used. I know 7 sounds like a lot but we rent out an apartment in my house, so we have need for a few move tvs with digital cable boxes.

did the IMG update reduce capacity on the HD DVR?

right now, I have 4h45m of SD and 6h of HD recorded, and it says I have space left for 6h of HD or 18h of SD. That's like 14h of HD in total. That's pretty anemic even for 160G isn't it?

I never counted exactly how many hours I could record before, but it seemed more.

did the IMG update reduce capacity on the HD DVR?

right now, I have 4h45m of SD and 6h of HD recorded, and it says I have space left for 6h of HD or 18h of SD. That's like 14h of HD in total. That's pretty anemic even for 160G isn't it?

I never counted exactly how many hours I could record before, but it seemed more.


Yes, This is a temporary reduction which should be restored in October

Hey guys, I have had fios internet since about this time last year and just ordered fios tv. I got two sd boxes but I am soon getting a HDTV. I am either gonna get one early october or wait until black friday. So my question is can I call and order a hd dvr to replace the sd box around then? Is there any fees? Beside the monthly price difference?

I'd dare say it's about as good as watching Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc minus the better audio.Hey, I like my FiOS TV as much as the next guy but I've got to take issue with this statement. We all know PQ is highly subjective. I just recently bought the HD DVD add-on player to go with my XBox 360 and I so far only own three titles--300, King Kong and Corpse Bride. But I can tell you that the PQ on those three movies blows away anything I see on my FiOS HD movie channels. Maybe after I view a larger sample I'll have a different observation. I should also mention that I'm watching on a 72-inch 1080P DLP, so that has some effect. But I'm only seeing those titles at 1080i because I can only connect my Xbox via component. They would obviously look even better at 1080P.

I think statements like this give too much credit to the content providers, e.g. HBO, Showtime, Starz. Frankly I am extremely disappointed in the present state of broadcast HD. There's way too much mulitcasting on the part of broadcasters and poor mastering/transfer quality of movies and reduced bit rate among the content providers. There are still too many SD cameras in use on HD broadcasts, particularly sporting events on ESPN and Fox. Things are slowly improving on that front but not fast enough for me.

At least FiOS is passing along the signal as they get it and not watering it down any further a la D*.

Hey guys, I have had fios internet since about this time last year and just ordered fios tv. I got two sd boxes but I am soon getting a HDTV. I am either gonna get one early october or wait until black friday. So my question is can I call and order a hd dvr to replace the sd box around then? Is there any fees? Beside the monthly price difference?


Yes, they charged me a $25 delivery fee. They had to bring it to me, that was the only option at that time.

Hey, I like my FiOS TV as much as the next guy but I've got to take issue with this statement. We all know PQ is highly subjective. I just recently bought the HD DVD add-on player to go with my XBox 360 and I so far only own three titles--300, King Kong and Corpse Bride. But I can tell you that the PQ on those three movies blows away anything I see on my FiOS HD movie channels. To be fair, you are comparing the absolute best quality HD-DVD releases available, as indicated by the HD-DVD PQ ranking thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856119).

HBO and Showtime do use lower bitrates, 11-12Mbps ABR with peaks of less than 14Mbps. Starz is a bit higher. On the other hand, Discovery, Hdnet, Hdnet Movies, MTV, TNT, and a few other channels use 17-19Mbps.

I think if you compared some lower tier movies on Blu-ray and HD-DVD - rather than the 'best of the best' -- you would find the quality very comparable to much of the content shown on Discovery, Hdnet, and Hdnet Movies. But I do agree that nothing on FiOS can match the 'best of the best' quality titles on Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

Alright cool thanks for the response.

HBO and Showtime do use lower bitrates, 11-12Mbps ABR with peaks of less than 14Mbps. Starz is a bit higher. On the other hand, Discovery, Hdnet, Hdnet Movies, MTV, TNT, and a few other channels use 17-19Mbps.

How do you tell? :confused:

To be fair, you are comparing the absolute best quality HD-DVD releases available, as indicated by the HD-DVD PQ ranking thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856119).

HBO and Showtime do use lower bitrates, 11-12Mbps ABR with peaks of less than 14Mbps. Starz is a bit higher. On the other hand, Discovery, Hdnet, Hdnet Movies, MTV, TNT, and a few other channels use 17-19Mbps.

I think if you compared some lower tier movies on Blu-ray and HD-DVD - rather than the 'best of the best' -- you would find the quality very comparable to much of the content shown on Discovery, Hdnet, and Hdnet Movies. But I do agree that nothing on FiOS can match the 'best of the best' quality titles on Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

Luckily, I don't have any of those low bit-rate premium channels. ;)

Now, remember I didn't say as smooth as "1080p/24 Blu-ray or HD-DVD." You probably could have gotten me for that one, billodom. :)

Luckily, I don't have any of those low bit-rate premium channels. ;)
Universal-HD is a lower bit-rate channel. How do you tell? Back when I had the more useful older 6416 software, when I recorded a 1 hour show on Universal-HD, it typically used 3% of the recording space. HBO and Showtime varied but they were around 4 to 5% on average, IIRC. My local ABC channel, WJLA-DT 7 with 2 SD sub-channels, would run 5% per hour. HDNet, CBS, NBC programs would on average take 6% per hour. This is one of my beefs with the new IMG with the new HD recording hours remaining display -THEY CAN"T TELL YOU THAT WITH ANY ACCURACY! HD recording space varies with the HD channel and HD program you record. I hope they eventually add a percentage of drive space used (to .1% accuracy) to the IMG recording status display in a future update.

Thanks for the links, I couldn't open up the mgoblue, but the Penn St. link is a recent interview w the BTN president, which was very interesting.

The full link is http://www.mgoblue.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=7324 and has lots more info. As you read at the PSU site, Silverman said that they were negotiating with VZ. I called a contact of mine working for VZ in the DC area to follow up on that... hope to get good news to share.

The full link is http://www.mgoblue.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=7324 and has lots more info. As you read at the PSU site, Silverman said that they were negotiating with VZ. I called a contact of mine working for VZ in the DC area to follow up on that... hope to get good news to share.

Sorry guys - VZ isn't even considering Big 10 at this time. I got that confirm last week. They really missed a chance at HUGE free press.

with all the bugs and such with the IMG and D*'s imminent launch of their HD channels, would you fios subscribers still jump ship, knowing what you know now? i'm growing tired of D* and it's crap H20 boxes that keep rebooting when i'm watching HD, (strangely it doesn't do this in SD channels), loss of signal during storms and price increases. not to mention that i don't have a DVR and can get one with fios for the same price or lower than i'm currently paying now.

i'm a pretty patient person, and would imagine that fios will step up their HD offerings in the future to compete with D*. extending my contract with D* to receive hd lite doesn't necessarily appeal to me. (i need the 5lnb dish and b band converter) i'd have to pay a fee to cancel wince i'm not quite out of contract with D*, but it's <$100 so it's pretty minimal concern.

I will tell you that I am torn. I love the FIOS internet, I love the PQ no question. I was told, as I have mentioned here before, a year and half ago when I get Fios that csn hd MA was getting ready to go live momentarily. I also was told that hd on demand was around the corner. Then we got something in the mail that indicated that we were finally gettin csn MA HD and just about every other city got it but DC didn't!:(

I don't have a 1080 p tv and the Direct tv hd lite isn't quite as bad as in my opionion as some. I do want the best pq and it is more important than quantity BUT there is a limit. If D* is sitting there with 60 hd channels and we have 20 and they have the csn hd channel that I covet it will be a very touch choice for me. I am willing to wait for many of these new channels but I am very confused as to why DC has been left out of the CSN HD offerings, I wish they would be able to explain it and give some idea when it would be available.

One thing that I am sure of is that Comcast is not an option at anytime in the future for me. Hey fios stop fooling with IMG's an worry about your programming selection, just a suggestion!

Hey fios stop fooling with IMG's an worry about your programming selection, just a suggestion!

I wish people would stop saying this. Different groups have the responsibility for each of these items.

I wish people would stop saying this. Different groups have the responsibility for each of these items.

Then I guess there are several groups behind the power curve. :D

Then I guess there are several groups behind the power curve. :D


Fair enough statement.

Please don't flame me. But I just left D* for Fios for certain reasons so I am not up to date on the FIOS threads. To make a long story short, I love FIOS but was wondering if there are plans to add more HD in the next several months? I have my 30 day trial with FIOS, but I am starting to see that even the SD FIOS stations are looking almost as good as some of the D* HD stations. Also, I think alot of the D* station are in the "lite" category and really are not that exciting....

Any input on the additional FIOS HD stations would be helpful.

Please don't flame me. But I just left D* for Fios for certain reasons so I am not up to date on the FIOS threads. To make a long story short, I love FIOS but was wondering if there are plans to add more HD in the next several months? I have my 30 day trial with FIOS, but I am starting to see that even the SD FIOS stations are looking almost as good as some of the D* HD stations. Also, I think alot of the D* station are in the "lite" category and really are not that exciting....

Any input on the additional FIOS HD stations would be helpful.

Yes, rumor has it that FiOS will be adding more HD channels this fall; however, that is not a certainty. FiOS never gives a date-certain for anything to happen. The sub just turns on the TV one day and magically there is something new to be found.

with all the bugs and such with the IMG and D*'s imminent launch of their HD channels, would you fios subscribers still jump ship, knowing what you know now? i'm growing tired of D* and it's crap H20 boxes that keep rebooting when i'm watching HD, (strangely it doesn't do this in SD channels), loss of signal during storms and price increases. not to mention that i don't have a DVR and can get one with fios for the same price or lower than i'm currently paying now.

i'm a pretty patient person, and would imagine that fios will step up their HD offerings in the future to compete with D*. extending my contract with D* to receive hd lite doesn't necessarily appeal to me. (i need the 5lnb dish and b band converter) i'd have to pay a fee to cancel wince i'm not quite out of contract with D*, but it's <$100 so it's pretty minimal concern.

I just made the switch and love FIOS...now I get CSN in Phila...I went 7 years w/out it. The PQ on SD is worth the switching.....better than some of the D* HD programs.The HD on some of the FIOS stations are about the same as D* and some are a notch better. There are few to no compression artifacts on SD and HD.

I'm also wondering about the HD plans for FIOS, but for now I have about 7-8 more HD stations than D*...that will be short lived though. However, for SD programming it's light years ahead of D*...the more I watch it the better it looks.

Yes, rumor has it that FiOS will be adding more HD channels this fall; however, that is not a certainty. FiOS never gives a date-certain for anything to happen. The sub just turns on the TV one day and magically there is something new to be found.


Thanks...at least there is hope and not like ...."no plans for 2 years..."
I really do like FIOS so far.

with all the bugs and such with the IMG and D*'s imminent launch of their HD channels, would you fios subscribers still jump ship, knowing what you know now? i'm growing tired of D* and it's crap H20 boxes that keep rebooting when i'm watching HD, (strangely it doesn't do this in SD channels), loss of signal during storms and price increases. not to mention that i don't have a DVR and can get one with fios for the same price or lower than i'm currently paying now.

i'm a pretty patient person, and would imagine that fios will step up their HD offerings in the future to compete with D*. extending my contract with D* to receive hd lite doesn't necessarily appeal to me. (i need the 5lnb dish and b band converter) i'd have to pay a fee to cancel wince i'm not quite out of contract with D*, but it's <$100 so it's pretty minimal concern.To give you a somewhat educated answer, I'll cover a few other aspects of FiOS in addition to TV.

I moved from D* to FiOS in January of 2006. I was with D* for the previous 6-1/2 years. There are a lot of factors involved. If you use the Internet to any extent, you should consider switching to FiOS. I have the 15/2 Internet package for which I'm paying $44.95 a month (including taxes). The reliability is superb. Of course the fiberoptic infrastructure is new so you've got that benefit. I have VoIP phone service through VoiceWing. VoIP, I'm told, works optimally with FiOS. The total cost is less than $30 a month (including taxes) and I've got all the bells and whistles that I had with POTS for less than half the price. I've had a few minor glitches with VoIP in the year I have been with them but overall reliability is pretty good and has stabilized. Voice quality is as good as POTS.
As far as TV, the size and quality of your display would be a factor in being bothered by the amount of compression D* applies. Of course if you had to have Sunday Ticket, you wouldn't have a choice in the matter. I'm not concerned with the ballyhoo over D*'s rollout of its new HD channels. I'm disappointed that we can't get our local teams in HD through our RSN. I won't be happy if FiOS hasn't added TBS HD in time to see the MLB playoff games in HD. I'm interested to see what kind of presentation CNN will have in HD. We're lucky our local Gannett-owned CBS affiliate has their studio news in HD (although field reports use WS SD cams). Some people think news in HD is not a big deal but I disagree. I know everybody wants as much HD content as possible, but based on what I've seen, I'm pretty happy with the quantity and quality I get on FiOS. They do need to roll out HD VOD ASAP.

Oh, yeah, the IMG is an unmitigated disaster IMO. But it doesn't affect me that much given my viewing habits. I've never utilized the DVR to its fullest potential, I'll admit.

In short, my recommendation would be to drop D* in a heartbeat.

I just got off the phone with FiOS-TV tech support to verify what I am about to say and the CSR confirmed my understanding of this feature. If anyone knows more about this than the CSR please speak-up and inform me because I just have a hard time believing the software programmers did this:
1. Under FIOS-TV (with IMG) settings, in the Audio section, you are supposed to be able to adjust the Volume of the STB. The sub is supposed to be able to change the volume via the FiOS remote to change the STB or the TV.
2. I set the STB volume to 55 and exited to live TV.
3. I made a significant volume change using the remote. The TV itself changed the volume.
4. I returned to the Audio section of the FiOS STB settings and found the value still at the original value of 55.
5. The CSR said that is correct. To change the volume using the STB, one has to go deep into the FiOS settings menu and make the change and then exit back to live TV. Every single time.
6. I asked the CSR if she would use that method to change her volume and she said "probably not". YA think! Unbelievable!

To change the STB volume with the remote you need to find the remote manual and there is a code to have the remote control the STB volume and not the TV volume.

I just got off the phone with FiOS-TV tech support to verify what I am about to say and the CSR confirmed my understanding of this feature. If anyone knows more about this than the CSR please speak-up and inform me because I just have a hard time believing the software programmers did this:
1. Under FIOS-TV (with IMG) settings, in the Audio section, you are supposed to be able to adjust the Volume of the STB. The sub is supposed to be able to change the volume via the FiOS remote to change the STB or the TV.
2. I set the STB volume to 55 and exited to live TV.
3. I made a significant volume change using the remote. The TV itself changed the volume.
4. I returned to the Audio section of the FiOS STB settings and found the value still at the original value of 55.
5. The CSR said that is correct. To change the volume using the STB, one has to go deep into the FiOS settings menu and make the change and then exit back to live TV. Every single time.
6. I asked the CSR if she would use that method to change her volume and she said "probably not". YA think! Unbelievable!

The feature from the remote control is called "Volume Lock" I believe. It allows you to set the device DVR, TV, AVR etc...that always controls the volume. Try setting that to DVR and see if that works as expected.

You may want to check to make sure that does not effect/is not related to the recording volume, on my old SA there was both...make sure you are only changing the one you want...I need to check this when I get home...at work now...but not for long ;)

To change the STB volume with the remote you need to find the remote manual and there is a code to have the remote control the STB volume and not the TV volume.

...and what might that code be, and how do you implement it? (can't find the remote manual...)


Is the remote manual online?

...and what might that code be, and how do you implement it? (can't find the remote manual...)


Is the remote manual online?
Here is the link to the remote manuals:

http://netservices.verizon.net/portal/link/help/item?case=c30111

Has anyone have any issues with their fios hdtv dvr box. Mine has been lately rebooting itself late at night and when it comes back on, my TV does not get any signal.

I have to unplug the box for 5-10 minutes and then it reboots and maybe then I have a signal. Just wondering if verizon is sending updates at night or just the box is screwed.

Thanks

Has anyone have any issues with their fios hdtv dvr box. Mine has been lately rebooting itself late at night and when it comes back on, my TV does not get any signal.

I have to unplug the box for 5-10 minutes and then it reboots and maybe then I have a signal. Just wondering if verizon is sending updates at night or just the box is screwed.

Thanks

Sounds like a box or a signal issue, either way I would call Vz and schedule an appt.

...I have the 15/2 Internet package for which I'm paying $44.95 a month (including taxes). ... I have VoIP phone service through VoiceWing. ...As far as TV..


Were you able to get any discount with a double or triple play?
This is the combo I'd like to move to, but currently get a decent discount with Comcast.

On the Verizon website it says they offer "FiOS TV" and "DirecTV service available through Verizon."

Does "DirecTV service available through Verizon" mean that D* is being piped via a FiOS cable, i.e. no dish, no compression and no line of site issues to worry about?


remember not everyone can get FTTH (fiber to the home)

for customers that have VZ POTS phone and D* you can call Vz and combine the bills and recieve discounts. so you D* statment will appear on your Vz BILL. you can also ad VZ DSL and get more discounts.

To change the STB volume with the remote you need to find the remote manual and there is a code to have the remote control the STB volume and not the TV volume.

Nope. I have the Remote Control instruction paper and used it as directed. I just talked to another tech and he told me the same thing as the first: You have to go deep into the Guide every time you want to change the volume using the STB. He didn't know why they did that. He also asked me why I would not want to use the TV like everyone else. I told him I did, but I was trying to use a FiOS feature that is supposed to work and it doesn't. He agreed and said basically that is the way it works so no trouble call will be developed because there is no problem. For those of you who have an IMG STB, try it and see what I mean. I say again: UNBELIEVABLE! :eek:

Nope. I have the Remote Control instruction paper and used it as directed. I just talked to another tech and he told me the same thing as the first: You have to go deep into the Guide every time you want to change the volume using the STB.

The feature is intended to let you adjust the overall volume of FIOS TV compared to your other sources (DVD, etc..) so that there is no big volume jump when you switch sources. I think it's a nice touch.

The feature is intended to let you adjust the overall volume of FIOS TV compared to your other sources (DVD, etc..) so that there is no big volume jump when you switch sources. I think it's a nice touch.

Where does it say that? I have never had that problem and the 2 techs I talked to never mentioned it.