Verizon FiOS HDTV [Text View] - Page 2

fredfa

01-05-06, 11:57 PM

Verizon nips at heels of Comcast
Cable customers could see more competition soon

By Rona Marech and Larry Carson Baltimore Sun reporters January 5, 2006

Cherise Tasker is less than enamored with her cable television provider.

When she calls with a problem, she said, she often is placed on hold for more than half an hour. For months, certain channels have flickered at random from color to black-and-white, and the sound and moving mouths haven't matched. For these indignities along with Internet services, she pays her cable company nearly $125 a month.

"They say they don't know what's causing the problem and they don't know when they can fix it," said Tasker, 41, a Columbia resident. "I think we sorely need the competition."

For consumers such as Tasker, who are frustrated with their cable providers and believe a solution lies in free enterprise, help could be on the way.

The Verizon cable television franchise approved in Howard County on Tuesday night is likely just the first of many incursions into cable company Comcast's reign in Maryland, where it is now in 16 of 24 jurisdictions. Verizon also is preparing to venture into Anne Arundel, Montgomery and Prince George's counties.

The move comes as telephone, cable and Internet services are rapidly evolving and converging.

Internet companies now offer telephone services. Television-like clips can be downloaded onto cell phones. Last month, Comcast officially launched its telephone service in suburban Maryland. Now Verizon has countered in Howard and other counties. Talks between the company and Baltimore County are pending.

"I've heard from many constituents about, 'When are we going to have a choice, and when is there going to be competition here in the county over the choice of cable?' I think that day is at the doorstep," said Baltimore County Councilman Joseph Bartenfelder, a Democrat representing Fullerton.

Companies providing cable service are required to get a franchise agreement from local or state governments, which critics say is tedious and expensive and discourages competition. Some states, including Texas and Indiana, have passed or introduced legislation to streamline the process. Verizon will not seek such statewide legislation in Maryland this year, but the company is backing similar federal legislation in Congress, said spokesman Harry J. Mitchell.

Parts of some counties, including Anne Arundel and Harford, already have limited cable choice but less than 4 percent of jurisdictions nationwide have effective competition, said Dean Smits, Howard's cable administrator. Despite Comcast's claim to the contrary, federal studies have shown that satellite video competition has a negligible impact on rates, he said.

Advocates say the argument for diversification is simple and obvious.

"We think competition is the way to improve rates, services and program offerings," said Cheryl Reed, of Consumers for Cable Choice, an organization supported partly by telecommunications companies including SBC and Verizon. The group's members include representatives for small business owners, rural customers lacking access to cable and minorities seeking more diverse programming.

Reed said cable rates went down 25 percent in Keller, Texas, when competition came to town. However, Anne Arundel cable customers who have a choice between Comcast and Millennium Digital Media have seen prices dip only by $3 or $4 a month, said John Lyons, the county's cable administrator. Nonetheless, the competing companies offer temporary price cuts and extra services to entice customers, he said.

Because Verizon is offering a fairly expensive, high-end cable service, its foray into television helps only the "very upscale part of the market," said Mark Cooper, director of research at the Consumer Federation of America, in Washington. Consumers who are using a big package of telephone and Internet services could receive a moderate discount off their current prices, but others might not see a difference, he said.

Verizon is spending a lot of money to install fiber for this new service and must gain a large market share to be successful, Cooper said.

"In order to make this work, they have to invent new things to sell and new revenue streams," Cooper said. "Frankly, the telephone companies have never been very good at that."

Comcast, meanwhile, is trying to fend off the competition by developing new communications services and stressing the firm's long-established system.

"We have built the infrastructure and developed the features and products our customers have asked for," including video-on-demand, said Comcast spokesman Jim Gordon.

"The trends in viewership and media consumption are completely changing. It's very exciting."

Technological convergence could be felt soon in living rooms across America. Experts say consumers will be able to download movies faster. They might be able to set a digital video recorder from the office, or when the phone rings they might be able to see the caller's name on their television screen. All in the same home, one person could watch a movie over the Internet while another simultaneously downloads a different movie and another has a teleconference or talks on the phone over the Internet.

If competition is the key to ushering in such advances, as some critics suggest, it could take a while to get there. Though Verizon is moving forward in Howard County and elsewhere, the company has encountered some problems getting started.

In Baltimore City, difficulty in getting cable to high-rise buildings has delayed progress, Mitchell said. The city, which has a nonexclusive contract with Comcast, would welcome competition but has not been approached, said Marilyn Harris Davis, executive director of the Mayor's Office of Cable and Communications.

In Baltimore County, where the County Council regulates cable services, another roadblock looms. Baltimore County Councilman Kevin Kamenetz said he has invited Verizon to begin talks there, but he is insisting the firm have a completed franchise agreement before starting installation of new fiber-optic cable.

In the other counties, Verizon has begun installing cable, which also serves the telephone and computer services Verizon is federally licensed to provide.

"If their purpose is to provide cable service, they have to have an agreement first. All we're trying to do is treat everyone equally," Kamenetz said.

Under Comcast's agreement with Baltimore County, the company pays for the County Council's Web site and provides free Internet service to all senior centers, libraries and public schools. In addition to receiving a franchise fee, Baltimore County saves $1 million each year by using Comcast-installed Internet fiber-optic cable for computer transmissions, Kamenetz said.

Despite all that, "it's not our role to inhibit competition," he said. "As long as services are being provided on an equal basis - come and see us."

In Howard County, Verizon is expected to begin offering services in April. But Tasker, the aggrieved Comcast customer, might not have to wait that long for improved services. Asked to respond to her complaints, Comcast spokesman Gordon said the company's chief engineer was already looking into the problem.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/bal-te.md.cable05jan05,1,6855156,print.story?coll=bal-artslife-tv

dmbatch

01-06-06, 03:32 AM

Here's the HD line-up for Fairfax County, Va.

HDTV Broadcast

801 FOX — WTTG-TV 36
802 CBS — WUSA-TV 34
803 ABC — WJLA
804 PBS — WETA-TV 27
805 UPN — WDCA-TV 35
806 PBS — WMPT-TV 42
807 NBC — WRC-TV 48
808 WB — WBDC-TV 51

HDTV National

810 TNT HDTV
811 ESPN HDTV
812 ESPN 2 HDTV
814 NFL Network HDTV
818 HD Net Movies
819 Universal HDTV
820 Discovery HDTV
821 Wealth TV HD

HDTV Premium

830 HBO HDTV
831 Cinemax HDTV
832 Showtime HDTV
833 TMC HDTV
834 Starz! HDTV

I just put my phone number in on their website and it says I can get FIOS TV. Wahoo!!!!!

rickypicky

01-06-06, 08:49 AM

dmbatch

01-06-06, 09:08 AM

I assume HD Net is one of the HD channels also?

Yeah, it's listed on the main page but seems to be missing from the channel guide page. Probably just a typo.

Not only that, but UPN HD. Finally Veronica Mars in HD.

NauticaX

01-06-06, 09:20 AM

I assume HD Net is one of the HD channels also?

No I think they only get HDNet Movies not HDNet. I asked a friend of mines who has it and he says he only seen old movies on HDNet so I'm assuming its the HDNet Movies channel.

dmbatch

01-06-06, 11:37 AM

http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/channel.aspx

dmbatch

01-06-06, 11:44 AM

billodom

01-06-06, 12:59 PM

I just put my phone number in on their website and it says I can get FIOS TV. Wahoo!!!!!

Count me in! Many thanks for posting. I had my number in their database to be contacted but hadn't heard anything. As soon as I saw your post I went to the Can I Get FiOS TV? link (http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/canigetfiosTV.aspx) and confirmed it. My install date is January 24. I will provide a summary of my order later today.

shugazer9

01-06-06, 01:01 PM

Is the firewire output enabled in the Verizon Moto DVRs?

billodom

01-06-06, 01:16 PM

Is the firewire output enabled in the Verizon Moto DVRs?

The firewire ports are indeed enabled but I have yet to be able to record to my D-VHS using them. My Mitsu. RPTV sees the STB fine but I cannot get the Mitsu. D-VHS to recognize/record from from the STB yet.

This reply came from JJDavis, one of the first FiOS installs in Keller, TX.

JJ Davis

01-06-06, 01:17 PM

John Mason

01-06-06, 01:59 PM

The firewire port is enabled on my Verizon DVR. I can watch it via the 1394 to my Mitsubishi TV but I have never been able to get it to connect to my Mitsubishi D-VHS and record. Incidentally, the firewire connection goes from the STB to the D-VHS and then the TV so it is a good connection to the D-VHS but it just won't recognize it for some reason (Maybe I'm not doing something right).

Believe some posts in the HD recorders/players forum indicate the order in which the different units are turned on sometimes makes a difference. Just in case you haven't tried all the options yet. -- John

oleus

01-06-06, 02:04 PM

any kind of time frame for whn this will be available in most major markets? i'm in atlanta.

hziemba

01-07-06, 08:27 AM

Does Verizon offer a CableCard? I have a Sony Bravia.

I can't get FIOS yet, but I signed up to be notified.

Solfan

01-07-06, 08:46 AM

New Jersey Star-Ledger had this article yesterday,

"Verizon rolling in Texas, going nowhere in N.J."

"Verizon Communications yesterday touted its success in capturing 20 percent of the video-entertainment market in a Texas town, but in New Jersey, its cable-television-programming ambitions remain caught in a legislative bottleneck".

Full article:

http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/business-0/1136527956144140.xml?starledger?btel&coll=1

John Mason

01-07-06, 09:39 AM

Noticed a curious comment in John Markoff's NYTimes article (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/07/technology/07video.html) today about IPTV (internet-protocol TV; i.e., packet switching):
Last fall, both AT&T, formerly SBC, and Verizon began limited introductions of Microsoft's version of IPTV.

Still, critics charge that the telephone companies are intentionally crippling the Internet capabilities of their services to appear much like traditional closed cable offerings.
Had the impression the Verizon intros so far were using cable-TV technology. While IPTV, at least according to this article (http://www.ct-magazine.com/archives/ct/1105/1105_buildingaswitched.htm), is the most sophisticated of three switched broadcasting techniques. (Supposedly my Time Warner Cable plans a rollout of switched broadcasting (http://www.bigbandnet.com/news/inTheNews/2005/news_053105a.php) this year.) -- John

JJ Davis

01-07-06, 10:51 PM

From what I've been told, FIOS will indeed support CableCard but I do not have 100% confirmation on that. I do not have a CableCard device in the house at the present time. I've toyed with it but haven't gone there.

John

bfoster

01-07-06, 10:55 PM

Does Verizon offer a CableCard? I have a Sony Bravia.

I can't get FIOS yet, but I signed up to be notified.

I would venture to say that they would be REQUIRED to offer the cablecard.

Rick Adams

01-08-06, 01:59 AM

Checked yesterday and was shocked to see it was now available for Falls Church. Almost certainly going to switch from D*, but there were only two question marks. First of all, speaking with them briefly yesterday, I was informed the HD DVR available only had a 120gb drive and was rated for about 10 hours of HD content. Obviously that's not a breaking point, but still rather disappointing.

I'm almost afraid how much county taxes are going to be. It's been so long since I had cable, eight years or so, that I don't want to see how much they add to the bill now. Right now, with two HD DVRs and one SD DVR, it's about $2 less than D* for everything at $117 and change. With local fees added, well, I'll have to see on Monday how much the monthly bill will add up to.

bfoster

01-08-06, 07:53 AM

5% is the maxiumum franchise fee allowed.

dmbatch

01-08-06, 08:43 AM

I wouldn't hang up from the rep until he got me a model number on the DVR. I was on hold twice for over 10 minutes each. He finally got me the info. It's a Motorola QIP6416. I looked it up on their website and the 16 stands for 160GB. They were initially using the QIP6412 which has the 120GB drive.

billodom

01-09-06, 09:57 PM

Any of you FiOS TV users out there heard about plans to carry this channel (http://outdoorchannel.com/_newsreleases-one.cfm?SectionID=4&SS=131&t=7&NewsID=264&Page_Mode=News_releases) that launched last April?

I notice that they are carrying the regular channel as part of the sports package. Also down there in the Dallas Metroplex area are you getting your local RSN? We will be receiving our local RSN here in Northern Virginia. Thanks in advance.

shugazer9

01-10-06, 01:20 AM

This reply came from JJDavis, one of the first FiOS installs in Keller, TX.
Sounds like a 5C issue to me, unfortunately. I used to have a Moto 6412 from Cox cable whuich allowed archiving to D-VHS until a software download mistakenly changed the 5C to Copy Never. I had to switch to the non-DVR 6200 for a while until the phaseIII 6412's were released, which were firewire-freindly. Man, this FIOS is close to being rolled out in my area. It would be a shame if it had a crippled functionality.

Rick Adams

01-11-06, 10:39 PM

It's very fortunate for Verizon that I'm not easily dissuaded from switching to their service. I ordered on Monday, had an install set for next Saturday the 21st from 8am-5pm. Two HD DVRs one SD DVR. I tried and tried to get more information on the HD DVR, that it was indeed the 160gb instead of the 120gb they were telling me.

So today I decide to change the order two three HD DVRs. I again ask about the 160gb/120gb issue, at which point they finally offer to give a message to an installer/technician to call me back. An hour later my order is canceled. For an hour and a half I can't get a straight answer, it's either a hardware problem or "some areas in Falls Church can't get FIOS-TV" (Given I'm using FIOS Internet, not a problem I think)

Finally this technician calls me back, at which point I'm informed that it's a franchise issue with Fairfax. Now I know for a fact as everyone else in this thread does that the franchise rights for Verizon passed for Fairfax nearly a year ago. So whether some paper hasn't been signed or if it's just BS, I don't know. He made it clear that they (installers) had no idea these orders were being signed up in Fairfax Co. and that the marketers had no clue what was going on and were severely misinformed about the availability of the service.

Bottom line, I'm either being lied to or they are really, really, really clueless. Clueless to the point where they are still selling a product and signing up installs to an area they still don't have the right to sell to. Bottom line, has anyone else had their order mysteriously canceled or does anyone actually have the service in their home and running in Fairfax/Falls Church? Because if I was getting a legitimate explanation, all the recent NoVA posters in this thread have a rude awakening coming.

bfoster

01-12-06, 12:31 AM

Rick Adams

01-12-06, 12:45 AM

Rick,

Do you live within the City of Falls Church? Franchises are awarded by the LOCAL Governing body. A franchise with the county of Fairfax would only be good in unincorporated areas of the county. According to this Press Release (http://www.ci.falls-church.va.us/government/officeOfCommunications/documents/VerizonFranchiseAgreement011006.pdf) the first public reading of the franchise with Verizon was only done yesterday. Second reading to be on 1/23 with service to be available in March.

No, I don't. This was the first thing I thought might be the problem, and I went over it with them, and they assured me they knew I was not part of the City of Falls Church. I'm about a block from the Arlington county border, so that definitely isn't the issue.

Quite frankly I'm afraid despite my informing them I'm not part of the City of Falls Church that's still the problem. When I changed the order, someone at Verizon saw "Hey, his address is listed as Falls Church" and canceled the order because of that. As incompetent as everyone I spoke with was, I don't think it's going to be easy to resolve. I currently have a call in to my local supervisor to discuss whether the franchise agreement with Fairfax is currently in place or not, and once I get that information I'll go at Verizon again. Was just curious if I'm only one going through this or if it really is a problem with the Fairfax govt.

dmbatch

01-12-06, 08:07 AM

No, I don't. This was the first thing I thought might be the problem, and I went over it with them, and they assured me they knew I was not part of the City of Falls Church. I'm about a block from the Arlington county border, so that definitely isn't the issue.

Quite frankly I'm afraid despite my informing them I'm not part of the City of Falls Church that's still the problem. When I changed the order, someone at Verizon saw "Hey, his address is listed as Falls Church" and canceled the order because of that. As incompetent as everyone I spoke with was, I don't think it's going to be easy to resolve. I currently have a call in to my local supervisor to discuss whether the franchise agreement with Fairfax is currently in place or not, and once I get that information I'll go at Verizon again. Was just curious if I'm only one going through this or if it really is a problem with the Fairfax govt.

No Rick, you aren't the only one. I can't even get them to accept my order because "the service isn't authorized in the Falls Church area yet". I live in Fairfax County with a FC address.

Everyday I type my number in on the qualification page and it comes back saying I am qualified. I have tried to get information from Verizon as to what the problem is but all the robotrons in the business office will say is "see above quote". I spoke to a supervisor who quoted the party line and would not let me talk to a manager. It is very frustrating to say the least.

I retired from Verizon 4 years ago and still have some friends who work there. I am trying to find someone who is part of the FIOS group to see if I can get a better explanation as to what's going on.

bfoster

01-12-06, 08:42 AM

No Rick, you aren't the only one. I can't even get them to accept my order because "the service isn't authorized in the Falls Church area yet". I live in Fairfax County with a FC address.

Everyday I type my number in on the qualification page and it comes back saying I am qualified. I have tried to get information from Verizon as to what the problem is but all the robotrons in the business office will say is "see above quote". I spoke to a supervisor who quoted the party line and would not let me talk to a manager. It is very frustrating to say the least.

I retired from Verizon 4 years ago and still have some friends who work there. I am trying to find someone who is part of the FIOS group to see if I can get a better explanation as to what's going on.

I believe FF CO has some sort of Cable Commision, I'd get them involved.

audiophile_walt

01-12-06, 12:18 PM

Does anyone know for certain whether Comcast's sports network is available for Verizon? Without the Wizards and Orioles in 1080HD and ACC Sunday nite bball it is a deal breaker for me.

billodom

01-12-06, 12:44 PM

Bottom line, has anyone else had their order mysteriously canceled or does anyone actually have the service in their home and running in Fairfax/Falls Church? Because if I was getting a legitimate explanation, all the recent NoVA posters in this thread have a rude awakening coming.

Here is a thread (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15071040) from another website you might find informative. Three different people have had installs, two in Reston and one undisclosed location in the county.

My install is scheduled for Tuesday, January 24. When I type my number in the Can I Get FiOS TV? (http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/canigetfiosTV.aspx) link, the following message comes up:

You already have Verizon FiOS TV. Our records indicate that you already have ordered FiOS TV at this location. If you feel this is incorrect, please call 1-800-293-9139 (Mon - Fri, 8 a.m. to 6 p.m.) to see if you can order FiOS TV.
I called this morning and spoke with a CSR who confirmed that I was indeed in the system. I had a question regarding the programming lineup. The channel lineup (http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/channel.aspx) as displayed is accurate across their entire footprint--Texas; Temple Terrace, FL; and Herndon/Fairfax County. The pdf link that is specific for us is not updated. I wanted to make sure I was getting HDNet after reading earlier in this very thread a post from a NauticaX who indicated a friend here who had the service was only getting HDNet Movies.

As for the question of CSN being available, the only thing I know is there is a deal between MASN and Verizon for the Nats games. I have seen that the local RSN is available in the Dallas suburbs where FiOS is deployed but I haven't heard anything about CSN availability for NoVA. That raises a side question: Since MASN produces the Orioles games, does CSN separately produce the HD games? I would be interested in watching the Os but only if they are in HD. Same with the Wizards.

Rstr

01-12-06, 01:05 PM

Any update on when the North Shore of LI will get FIOS TV? Considering upgrading Dish equipment if its going to be a long time.

On the North Shore of Long Island the battle to get Verizon's FIOS TV is heating up. I have had Verizon's FIOS internet service for several months now and it has worked as advertised so I have been looking forward to seeing competition to our local cable TV provider which is Cablevision.

Cablevision's reputation for service and value is not good and my personal experiences with them support this. I recently questioned my village's representative to our North Shore Cable Commission concerning the feeling that they are dragging their feet. He blamed Verizon for not making an official proposal for a franchise but there are rumors afloat that the commission has made unreasonable demands. I don't know what truth is but Cablevision has a reputation for doing everything and anything to stop real competition.

The only solution is for citizens to keep questioning their representatives and force them to act for the public good.

sanger22

01-12-06, 01:50 PM

Does anyone know for certain whether Comcast's sports network is available for Verizon? Without the Wizards and Orioles in 1080HD and ACC Sunday nite bball it is a deal breaker for me.

I agree, I had already decided to switch from Directv after 10 years of being with them. I was distraught about giving up NFL, but the HD, the signal strength and the reliability of FIOS outweighs the Sunday Ticket. But no Comcast means no wizards and caps. I just can't do that. I see on the lineup in herndon no CSN, so I would expect no CSN in fairfax.

electronixchange

01-12-06, 02:47 PM

I haven't heard anyone talk about FiOS in Fort Wayne, Indiana yet, but I recently had FiOS internet installed and the installer said that FiOS TV should be rolling out in October. Being a Midwest city, this is BIG and we're getting it before Indianapolis!!!

billodom

01-12-06, 02:47 PM

Does anyone know for certain whether Comcast's sports network is available for Verizon? Without the Wizards and Orioles in 1080HD and ACC Sunday nite bball it is a deal breaker for me.

Just ran across this article from the Cherry Hill, NJ Courier-Post you might find of interest:

VERIZON COULD CHALLENGE COMCAST SPORTS VIEWERS

Verizon is primed to give Comcast some competition for consumers' cable business, and it could be good news for sports fans looking to save money and get more channels in the process.
Spend less and get more. What a concept.
The key to the deal for sports fans is that Verizon may be armed with something satellite providers aren't -- local sports programming.
Verizon is in the process of equipping New Jersey communities with its FTTP technology, which uses hair-thin strands of fiber and optical electronics to link homes or businesses to Verizon networks. The result is the ability for broadband Internet services and, more importantly, video services that potentially could give Comcast's 1.4 million New Jersey subscribers another option for cable television.
To this point, South Jersey sports fans' only option if they want to watch the Phillies, Sixers and Flyers is to subscribe to Comcast since the majority of the teams' games are televised on Comcast SportsNet.
Comcast SportsNet is not available to subscribers of DirecTV or DISH Network, the two leading satellite providers. Because of the way it distributes SportsNet, Comcast is allowed to withhold it from satellite competitors through the so-called "terrestrial loophole."
Verizon officials are confident they won't run into the same legal roadblock in offering its video service, called FiOS TV. Verizon is optimistic that when it launches in New Jersey, Comcast SportsNet, CN8, The Golf Channel and OLN -- all Comcast entities -- will be part of its channel offerings.
"Comcast has embraced our entry into the market and we're optimistic we will offer their programming," said Alexis Johnson, Verizon's director of programming. "We feel it's important because local sports resonates with local communities."
Comcast spokesman Tim Fitzpatrick said the company does not comment on negotiations.
Why would FiOS be good news for sports fans?
First, and most importantly, it would bring some needed competition to the cable landscape, as Comcast has created a virtual monopoly in the Delaware Valley.
Second, it could result in a cheaper monthly cable bill.
Verizon's FiOS TV, which launched in September and is available in three communities in Texas, Virginia and Florida, costs $39.95 per month for the expanded basic package that includes 180 digital video and music channels.
Virtually the same digital package from Comcast currently runs $63.85 per month, and that will go up in January when Comcast raises the rates on its expanded basic package by an average of 6 percent.
Third, FiOS TV will offer more programming for sports fans. The current FiOS channel lineup includes 22 sports channels, seven of which are part of the expanded basic service. ESPN Classic and ESPNU are included in FiOS' basic package, and those channels are not available to all Comcast subscribers in South Jersey.
FiOS TV also offers a sports tier for $5.95 per month that gets you 15 extra channels -- some of which Comcast has and some of which it doesn't.
Before you get giddy about saving $20 per month and getting more sports channels, realize that it could be a while before FiOS TV is available widespread in South Jersey for two reasons.
Currently, only 100 of the 526 New Jersey communities Verizon serves are being equipped with the FTTP technology. Second, state law requires cable operators to negotiate contracts with local municipalities on a town by town basis -- a process Verizon says could take 6-18 months.
So it may be a while. In the meantime, Comcast could show some goodwill and make ESPN Classic and ESPNU available to all South Jersey subscribers.

Our situation in DC is somewhat different than Philadelphia's, but it seems that for us it is only a question of when FiOS TV will get CSN--and their HD sportscasts--not if.

Ken Ross

01-12-06, 06:03 PM

OK, I just talked to Verizon.

I can get everything they offer, including 22 HD channels (8 local, 9 national, 5 premium), an HD DVR, a standard STB, plus movie and sports packages, for $10 less a month than I'm paying D*tv for only HBO and Showtime plus HD package and TiVo services.

Oh man!! Can we say "Goodbye D*"????

I just had Verizon over at my house yesterday on a phone repair issue. He mentioned that FIOS would be in may area in the Feb/March timeframe. I can't wait to see what they've got. This may be the true alternative so many of us have been looking for. :)

electronixchange

01-12-06, 06:14 PM

jones07

01-12-06, 07:23 PM

Our situation in DC is somewhat different than Philadelphia's, but it seems that for us it is only a question of when FiOS TV will get CSN--and their HD sportscasts--not if.

CSN-HD and to not deal with Comcast.............Priceless ;)

tommy def

01-12-06, 08:33 PM

Just to let you guys know. I'm in Massapequa pk long Island and Verizon just called and told me the tv service is turning on monday.

John Mason

01-13-06, 09:33 AM

I don't know if any of you guys that have the Motorola DVR STB are using this but Motorola's site (http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=446) says that the unit is capable of being used as a "home media server" to view recorded programs throughout the home. If anyone is using this feature it would interesting to hear about it.
Yes, it would also be interesting to hear, with fiber to the home, plus the newest-model converter(s), whether they can deliver HD resolutions that exceed the limitations of typical cable delivery. From a number of AVS posts, based on HDNet resolution wedges (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175424#post5175424), this appears to average <1300 lines/PW maximum with a converter. (CableCards apparently are better, but no firm measurements here AFAIK.) The test pattern, with non-sampled 1080i, can apparently provide close to 1920-line resolution, unless the delivery source (DBS, cable head ends) is reformatting (HDLite) or over-filtering/compressing the signal. Sampled motion-video 1080i has a reduced effective resolution (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5667245&&#post5667245) (maximum resolvable detail), subject to many limiting variables. Fiber to the home should be able to deliver bit rates of at least 23--30 Mbps (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5072024&&#post5072024), without prefiltering as dr1394 stresses, which is the sweet spot for MPEG-2 1920X1080 home delivery fidelity, assuming adequate bit rates originate from program sources. Most delivery sources now supply <17 Mbps (video payload) into homes. -- John

BTDT

01-13-06, 05:00 PM

I read somewhere that the home networking features of the QIP6416 are not currently utilized by Verizon, but will be turned on at some later date. I like the idea of this as well, since it would effectively multiply the amount of useful recording space accessible from any one viewing location. I can also see simple scenarios like chasing the kids out of the great room to finish watching their cartoons upstairs....

In terms of the "can't get FiOS TV" issue I am in a similar boat. The FiOS website and even a letter from Verizon tell me I am good to go, but on the phone they say my account tells them it is not available to my address yet. This has something to do with additional infrastructure Verizon adds around the FiOS setup, so just having FiOS internet is not the kicker. Note that the rep did suggest that maybe FiOS TV didn't have authorization in my area yet, but this is not the case given Texas' recent state-wide authorization approach.

I am interested in hearing about other Flower Mound installs. The QIP6416 sounds nice. I also checked out a short video on www.microsoft.com/tv on their DVR software. This, I believe, is what runs on the FiOS box. Looks reasonably well-featured, covering (at least as shown on the video) the major bases of my HD-TiVo's functionality.

zzbutler

01-13-06, 05:53 PM

I am also interested in any Flower Mound specific info.

Rstr

01-13-06, 06:29 PM

Just to let you guys know. I'm in Massapequa pk long Island and Verizon just called and told me the tv service is turning on monday.

You're a Bastard! Joking. I'm so jealous :)

Well at least I have FIOS internet...

bedo

01-13-06, 07:22 PM

You're a Bastard! Joking. I'm so jealous :)

Well at least I have FIOS internet...

What upload/download speeds do you get?

Ken Ross

01-13-06, 09:38 PM

Just to let you guys know. I'm in Massapequa pk long Island and Verizon just called and told me the tv service is turning on monday.

Tommy, let us know how the picture is and how it compares with your current provider!

danjb

01-15-06, 03:43 AM

I am also interested in any Flower Mound specific info.
I just had FIOS TV installed in Flower Mound... I have had their internet service for a few months, and got a Fedex letter from them right after Jan 1 announcing availability of the TV service. I ordered it and they did the install Friday. Here's some excerpts from a note I wrote to a friend about the experience:

Indeed, it did get installed, although it took them probably four+ hours to do it. Most of that time was dealing with the rats nest of cables in my wiring closet; in the end, they had to disconnect all my additional amplifiers and modulators to get things working. One of the things they said they had to do was hook their special "FIOS firmware" D-Link router back up; I had unhooked it to use my own. The guy claimed the TV requires the special router (I had also read this online). However, he hooked it up downstream from my wireless router, and after changing a couple settings it all works fine, and I use both routers.

The way it connects to everything is IDENTICAL to cable. Basically, at the box on the outside of your house where the fiber arrives, a coax comes out. In my case, they just unconnected the incoming Comcast coax and connected their FIOS coax coming out of their box. Inside the house, basically all their set-yop boxes connect to the various coaxes just as if you had cable. The only weird thing in all this is they add one additional box inside the house (called a "NIM"). It has a coax jack and an ethernet jack. The coax jack must be connected into your cable somehow (via a splitter) and the ethernet jack must be connected to their special D-Link router. This is how the cable boxes talk to the central office for VOD ordering, guide downloads, etc.

One interesting surprise: The cable signal they generate supports analog channels! That is, you can connect cable-ready TV's in your house to the cable w/o set-top boxes and get some channels, just with FIOS. The bad news is, they only give you local channels (including independents). You can see the lineup at http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Includes/FiOSTV/NorthTexasLineup.pdf ... the channels that can be received w/o a box are the "Basic" channels in the upper left corner. This is better than satellite (which has no analog channels), but worse than cable (which has a bunch, although they're whittling the list down all the time).

As for the service itself: I give it high marks. The quality is MUCH better than satellite (which has obvious compression artifacting), and I think at least as good or better than cable as well (although this is harder to tell w/o a side by side comparison). The channel lineup is comparable to what I get with Comcast today, with maybe a few additions such as Boomerang. The VOD selection seems similar to Comcast, or maybe not quite as much. One thing missing from the Verizon VOD list is Nickelodeon and Cartoon Networks shows. For kids, they just have Disney, and some various educational shows.

The set top box user interface is good. Its definately better than the box I have with Comcast. Changing channels is very quick, for example, and the menuing works well. Yes, the guide stays on your channel when you bring it up!! Plus, you can list all shows on a particular channel, similar to the old StarSight guide (although done a little differently).

The DVR works well also. The two tuners are great! Plus, it has better features than ReplayTV at dealing with conflicts. For example, it has a "priority list" like I use in Beyond TV that lets you specify which shows take priority in case of a conflict. It certainly is more responsive than Replay (ours has slowed to a crawl).

One major lack is there is no commercial skip ability. There are multiple speeds of FF and REV, and there is a "jump back 7 seconds" button. But no jump forwards button. This is hard to get used to after using Replay. It's made worse by the fact that while FF or REV'ing, the box seems less responsive to remote button pushes. This means it's very easy to overshoot your target... maybe they did this on purpose.

The experience was good enough I decided to look at the money picture and see if it would be worth it to switch. Here is what I'm paying Comcast:

Digital Classic Plus Package $14.95
Standard Cable $42.50
Classic Extra $ 5.99
HDTV Box (media room) $ 5.00
Digital Additional Equipment $ 5.08
Total $73.52 I suspect they have better deals these days (for example, I'm paying a $5 fee for each of my 2 digital boxes... maybe I'm supposed to get one for free?? Plus, I have no idea what that "Classic Extra" charge is). But, this is what is on my bill. I then figured my price for FIOS TV with enough boxes to cover all my major viewing areas (including a DVR for the media room and for the family room), and the price comes to this:

Expanded Basic Package $34.95
Standard Set Top Box (3) $11.85
DVR Set Top Box (2) $25.90
Total $72.70It may even be less... I can't remember if you're supposed to get one box for free included in the $34.95 base price. Both of these are really expensive of course, but even with a bunch of STB's FIOS is very competitively priced. With the 2 DVR's and the ability to do VOD in any room, I'm getting much more than Comcast, plus better quality, for about the same price. I am thinking it may be time to change!!

One more interesting thing: the set top boxes that Verizon uses are the latest generation Motorola boxes that feature a networking technology called "MOCA". This is what allows them to communicate over the internet, for example, for guide updates. It also is supposed to allow in-home media networking over coax, similar to what the later generation ReplayTV's can do over ethernet. That is, from another STB you can watch a show recorded on a DVR in another part of your house, no additional wiring needed. This would be awesome, because then all those $3.95 low end STB's could watch content recorded on the DVR in your home. This feature does NOT work now, but I saw a post that claimed Verizon would be enabling it in 2Q2006... we'll see.

John Mason

01-15-06, 07:30 AM

Dan,
Thanks for the detailed FIOS installation outline. Looked at your pdf channel menu but couldn't find what channels are HDTV. Looks like they haven't signed HDNet, either. I signed up for Verizon FIOS last year but suspect Manhattan hookups will be slow arriving. Still interested in discovering what bit rates for SD/HD Version is providing, and if HDNet is ever delivered (with its test patterns (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6664456&&#post6664456)), whether the STBs provides more than the ~1300 line maximum horizontal resolution (resolvable) that appears to be typical for many cable STBs (from posts here). -- John

bfoster

01-15-06, 07:43 AM

Dan,

Don't forget the $10-12 a month it costs to power the ONT.

PDPnNJ

01-15-06, 11:58 AM

Dan,
Looked at your pdf channel menu but couldn't find what channels are HDTV. Looks like they haven't signed HDNet, either.

HDTV lineup is on the 2nd page of the PDF. HDNet is part of the lineup.

danjb

01-15-06, 11:59 AM

Don't forget the $10-12 a month it costs to power the ONT.That's a good point. I figure there will be other "hidden" costs and fees as well that I won't be aware of until I get a bill. In the case of the ONT cost, I assume I am already paying that for FIOS internet??

Ken Ross

01-15-06, 12:11 PM

As for the service itself: I give it high marks. The quality is MUCH better than satellite (which has obvious compression artifacting), and I think at least as good or better than cable as well (although this is harder to tell w/o a side by side comparison). The channel lineup is comparable to what I get with Comcast today, with maybe a few additions such as Boomerang.

Dan, great review! The more I hear, the more I'm convinced this is my ticket out of Directv and the other sat down-rezr's!!!! HOORAY!!!! :)

I also counted about 14 HD National (exclusive of broadcast HD)....that's about 2 YEARS ahead of D*!

Dan, if I could, can you give us details on your HDTV?

Thanks.

digital_dilemma

01-15-06, 02:25 PM

I have ordered Fios, both Internet service and TV. Currently have D*. I have been in the professional and HT business for about 14 years. I worked at Zenith Electronics during the years when the "Grand Alliance" was trying to get everything passed through the FCC. Seeing the 30 - 35 Mbps bandwidth of the servers we were using and the W-VHS machines we used with content from HD Vision, I have grown weary of the HD-Lite from D*. Man, I doubt HD will ever be as good again as it was in the early days. It was like entering another dimension, as if you were looking through a pristine, clear window into another world and all you had to do was simply step through the window to be there. The stuff being broadcast today, CSI, etc. is total garbage compared to howgood it actually could be. Sigh. Oh, well.

Anyway.. none of the above is why I'm writing. A couple of days AFTER I placed my order with Verizon, I came home and Comcast had been to my home and had striped and flagged my yard for the cable running to my home. I guess that V* and C* communicate in some way when this is going to take place. Well, two days later, I get a call at dinner time :( and it's a rep from Comcast, wanting to talk to me about keeping me as a customer. He's offered to lower my Internet service from it's current $52.95 a month to $29.95 a month, plus offer me a deal on Comcast cable. I was right in the middle of dinner, so told him to call back another time. He's called, but missed me, twice now. I was wondering if anyone else has had the same experience and what Comcast has been offering? With Fios coming it, it's amazing how competition is spurring better pricing. :)

Also, in the event the Comcast rep came up with some smokin' deal, for me, it's all about HD. When I moved in my home in 2001, I immediately put in an antenna on the roof of my house for HD OTA. Of course, the HOA blew a gasket, but I just forwarded them the FCC link to the Telecommunications Act of 1997 and let them know that I knew the name of a good attorney who could explain to them how their covenants were not in compliance with federal law. That was the last I heard from them (at least on that issue..LOL) So, I have the locals ALL coming in with no problems, but really want the variety, so I want to know what are the HD channels that Comcast offers and is the bandwidth and quality any good?

digital_dilemma

01-15-06, 02:57 PM

Well, I went to the Comcast site and it looks like the "deal" is $29.95 a month :p for 12 months and also includes HBO and Starz, as well as the HD channels. I'd have to get HD receivers, but it doesn't look like they offer HD-DVR :(

Anybody know what Comcast's plans are for HD-DVR? By the time I add a couple of HD receivers and a single SD DVR, the monthly would be $49.95 a month while Fios would be $76.75 (1-HD-DVR, 1-HD, 1-SD) with the Sports/Movie package (includes 47 movie channels of Starz, Showtime, TMC, Encore, Flix and Sundance, three of which are HD at this time). Is another $26, plus as some have mentioned, the additional cost of electricity to power the ONT, worth it for HD-DVR?

DonCoolio

01-15-06, 03:30 PM

Dan,

Don't forget the $10-12 a month it costs to power the ONT.

Sources please.

BTDT

01-15-06, 04:29 PM

Ken Ross

01-15-06, 06:19 PM

I am definitely planning on this move if they can get their act together and make it available to me. They may be racing the clock otherwise against D*'s rollout of HD DVRs for MPEG-4.

For me, the only 'racing clock' is that of PQ. D* will not improve PQ for at least 2 years, if EVER. So if FIOS is at least starting out with full bandwidth HD, they've got my $$$!

You know what the best part of this is? I won't have to listen anymore about D*'s grand 'business plan'! :D

bfoster

01-15-06, 07:28 PM

Sources please.

I'll have to dig around for the current specs, but I read it here or at dslreports.

Remember the ONT of FIOS is the same as a optical node in a cable system. The FIOS optical system is passive. It is definetly powered by the user, as well as the battery charger for back-up ( which is only for telephone) plus the user is responsible for the back-up batteries after install.

Oh, by the way, the claim I've read is 2 amps of draw. That equals 220 watts, 5280 watts a day, 158,400 a month or 158 kwh at 7.5 cents national average equals $11.88.

danjb

01-15-06, 07:31 PM

What part of FM do you live in?I am in Wellington, about 200 yards west of the high school as the crow flies...Dan, if I could, can you give us details on your HDTV?I apologize for making my post and not being able to immediately follow it up with detailed info, but I'm currently away from home for a week on business. I only got to play with the setup for some time on Saturday. I watch HD on a JVC G1000 equivalent FP setup, but have only tried OTA and Comcast HD (when I had satellite in the past, it was only for SD). The FIOS TV box was set to put out 1080i.

I watched some of Winged Migration, some of Apocalypse Now, and a short segment of a football game in HD. Winged Migration was actually via a DVR recording. They all to me appeared as clean as OTA HD. I have noticed blotchiness (sp?) in grass in even SD football broadcasts on satellite, but the FIOS HD looked very clean. No pixelization in the ocean shots and bird flock shots of Winged Migration, and scenes like that with a lot of across-the-screen motion is where I have noticed digital compression artifacting the most in the past. It is hard to say definitively w/o an A/B comparison or w/o checking the data rate of course, but it looked as good as what I got from Comcast or OTA.

I had two installers at the house; the first guy said it was his first time doing a solo install. He said he was from Florida, and that Verizon had brought in a bunch of their Florida team to do Texas installs. He claimed they are targeting 18,000+ by the end of February? Anyway, after he looked at my wiring closet and struggled with the existing setup a bit, he called one of his buddies to help him, and the second guy was very knowledgeable. He wired in the Verizon D-Link router (which I had setting on a shelf) and downstreamed my D-Link MIMO wireless router w/o a hitch.

One other thing I noticed is I couldn't find any HD VOD programming... Comcast has a separate section for this in their VOD guide, but Verizon did not. There may have been HD programming sprinkled in with SD programming, but I did not specifically notice it (I could have just missed it). I assume Verizon will be expanding their VOD lineup (as Comcast has over the last year), so this doesn't worry me a whole lot.

Ken Ross

01-15-06, 07:39 PM

Thanks Dan. Let us know what you think as you get more hours behind you! Enjoy.

DonCoolio

01-15-06, 09:37 PM

I'll have to dig around for the current specs, but I read it here or at dslreports.

Remember the ONT of FIOS is the same as a optical node in a cable system. The FIOS optical system is passive. It is definetly powered by the user, as well as the battery charger for back-up ( which is only for telephone) plus the user is responsible for the back-up batteries after install.

Oh, by the way, the claim I've read is 2 amps of draw. That equals 220 watts, 5280 watts a day, 158,400 a month or 158 kwh at 7.5 cents national average equals $11.88.

This guy used a Kill-a-watt power meter on the power supply and got a reading of 12 watts.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,14885119?hilite=power+draw+fios+equipment
I saw the thread where 2 amps were stated, but that may be someone reading the ratings sticker on the power supply. I don't know if he had tv services or if that will make a difference. So, 12w x 24hours x 30 days / 1000 kwh x 7.5c = $.65

I really want to know how much hidden cost is involved with Fios too. Perhaps someone has more input on this.

bfoster

01-15-06, 09:58 PM

This guy used a Kill-a-watt power meter on the power supply and got a reading of 12 watts.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,14885119?hilite=power+draw+fios+equipment
I saw the thread where 2 amps were stated, but that may be someone reading the ratings sticker on the power supply. I don't know if he had tv services or if that will make a difference. So, 12w x 24hours x 30 days / 1000 kwh x 7.5c = $.65

I really want to know how much hidden cost is involved with Fios too. Perhaps someone has more input on this.

Well first of all you can't kill a watt. It's kilowatt as in 1000 watts. Any kilowatt meter is a counter, like the one on the outside of your house. You don't get an absolute reading as in 11 watts. You do realize what 11 watts is right? One and half christmas light bulbs. 11 watts at 110 volts is 100 mA, not enough to charge your cell phone battery....

DonCoolio

01-15-06, 10:17 PM

Well first of all you can't kill a watt. It's kilowatt as in 1000 watts. Any kilowatt meter is a counter, like the one on the outside of your house. You don't get an absolute reading as in 11 watts. You do realize what 11 watts is right? One and half christmas light bulbs. 11 watts at 110 volts is 100 mA, not enough to charge your cell phone battery....
NO KIDDING!

KILL-A-Watt is a brand of meter. It installs between the power source and appliances to measure energy usage.
http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html <-look here

Don't be condescending... lets get a more precise estimate of the Fios ONT.

bfoster

01-15-06, 10:53 PM

NO KIDDING!

KILL-A-Watt is a brand of meter. It installs between the power source and appliances to measure energy usage.
http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html <-look here

Don't be condescending... lets get a more precise estimate of the Fios ONT.

OK I'll bite, do you really think the ONT only draws 100 mA? It takes a lot more than that to make your phone ring, plus the data and video portions of the ONT, oh and let's not forget this system is two-way so now we have a laser to contend with...... Then we have to charge the back-up battery....

As said earlier I haven't measured the current consumption, but it ain't free and it is certainly more than 11 watts.

dmbatch

01-15-06, 11:11 PM

OK I'll bite, do you really think the ONT only draws 100 mA? It takes a lot more than that to make your phone ring, plus the data and video portions of the ONT, oh and let's not forget this system is two-way so now we have a laser to contend with...... Then we have to charge the back-up battery....

As said earlier I haven't measured the current consumption, but it ain't free and it is certainly more than 11 watts.
I doubt it's a laser. They've been using LEDs in place of lasers for years.

bfoster

01-15-06, 11:34 PM

I doubt it's a laser. They've been using LEDs in place of lasers for years.

Huh? All current lasers in this industry are diodes...........

digital_dilemma

01-15-06, 11:49 PM

Nice to see some fellow Flower Mounders respond, and that for you at least Verizon has claimed availability. Here are a couple of quick questions for you and then for anyone else with direct FiOS experience:

1. What part of FM do you live in? In am in Bridlewood. I can use this information to perhaps push past a CS rep who is just reading the screen and not willing to dig any further. I also received the express mail letter telling me all was ready.

(BTW, your story about the HOA is entertaining. Perhaps they don't watch those things anymore? My D* dish and HD antennae look like I have the Starship Enterprise on my roof :-))

2. For those of you who already have FiOS TV, what is the format of the VOD material, especially the movies? In particular,

2a. Any VOD content in HD?
2b. Is movie VOD content in widescreen/OAR or mostly/all in 4:3? I am expecting something akin to what you get on D* PPV, where most if 4:3 but perhaps a couple of offerings are at least in letterbox.

I am definitely planning on this move if they can get their act together and make it available to me. They may be racing the clock otherwise against D*'s rollout of HD DVRs for MPEG-4.

I'm close to the Home Depot down Hwy 2499. My next door neighbor added Fios about amonth ago, then when the announcement came out for Fios TV, he was contacted by Fios. He knew I was waiting for that, so he called me. At first, when I called the rep said I wasn't able to get it, but when I said my next door neighbor had it and that the in-ground box stradled our two properties, she put me on hold. After a few minutes she came back on the line and confirmed that I could get it. She said there is a master list of addresses that has yet to be uploaded into the verification site, but that all those addresses CAN receive it.

Anyway, I've yet to hear from anybody that is currently getting Comcast to hear about quality and service, HD-DVR plans, etc. The deal Comcast is offering, $29.95 Broadband with 6Mbps and $29.95 digital cable with HBO and Starz is about one-half of current Comcast broadband and D*. Is Verizon going to be a hassle compared to Comcast? I'd really appreciate feedback.

DonCoolio

01-16-06, 12:37 AM

OK I'll bite, do you really think the ONT only draws 100 mA? It takes a lot more than that to make your phone ring, plus the data and video portions of the ONT, oh and let's not forget this system is two-way so now we have a laser to contend with...... Then we have to charge the back-up battery....

As said earlier I haven't measured the current consumption, but it ain't free and it is certainly more than 11 watts.

here you go
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,15253339

bfoster

01-16-06, 12:49 AM

here you go
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,15253339

They say nothing concrete.... Get your own data. I'll concur my 2 amps was MAX, but to compare that to 100 mA, your dreaming....

ONT
NIM
Required wired d-Link router
BBU

All things the user must power with Verizon but not CATV/DBS........

DonCoolio

01-16-06, 12:58 AM

They say nothing concrete.... Get your own data. I'll concur my 2 amps was MAX, but to compare that to 100 mA, your dreaming....

ONT
NIM
Required wired d-Link router
BBU

All things the user must power with Verizon but not CATV/DBS........

Your the one telling people Fios will cost them $12 a month in power.... your dreaming.
perhaps you can tell people how much the above devices will cost in total.

Your data was based on a post at AVS Forums......Maybe you should get your own data.

bfoster

01-16-06, 01:08 AM

Your the one telling people Fios will cost them $12 a month in power.... your dreaming.
perhaps you can tell people how much the above devices will cost in total.

Your data was based on a post at AVS Forums......Maybe you should get your own data.

And what is your cost estimate ? 24 watts $0.65? As I said your dreaming. What site would you like me to link to? You started a thread among Verizon users, none of which were able to offer concrete usage info....

When I get the time I will get the power requirements for the:

ONT
BBU
NIM
D-Link Router

When done I believe we will be a lot closer to $12 than we will be to $0.65.

DonCoolio

01-16-06, 01:32 AM

And what is your cost estimate ? 24 watts $0.65? As I said your dreaming. What site would you like me to link to? You started a thread among Verizon users, none of which were able to offer concrete usage info....

When I get the time I will get the power requirements for the:

ONT
BBU
NIM
D-Link Router

When done I believe we will be a lot closer to $12 than we will be to $0.65.
And as I said in previous posts, I'm not sure how much fios tv would change this cost estimate.
What thread among Verizon users did I start? Someone else started it after reading your posts.
What site do I want you to link to? Maybe one that suports your argument. But be sure not to use Broadbandreports because after using it to support your original argument, it is no longer a credible source of information acording to you.

Marcus Carr

01-16-06, 02:19 AM

Looks like Verizon is getting MHD at launch:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=630226&page=2

tommy def

01-16-06, 11:25 PM

Just to keep you guys posted on what's going on in Massapequa. I placed my order with Verizon this afternoon, they will be here thursday morning. I have Directv now and i'm going to hold on to it so I can compare the too. I'd also like to add that I was paying around $120.00 a month for Directv. that included one Hidef box, three standard boxes, and all the channels. the lady on the phone said that I would be getting one hddvr box, three standard, and all they have to offer for $88.00 a month. More hd, better picture( I hope) , and thirty dollars a month less, it's a no brainier.

winter

01-17-06, 08:31 AM

When I get the time I will get the power requirements for the:

ONT
BBU
NIM
D-Link Router
I measured the ONT/BBU previously (posted at BBR) and my results were:

Someone else had posted that the power supply draws 11 watts, since I'm home and thinking about it I tried it myself (I have a kill-a-watt power meter), I got the same measurement: 11 watts, 17 VA.

If I take the phone off-hook it goes up to 12 watts, 18 VA
I don't have a NIM so I can't comment on that.

Ken Ross

01-17-06, 08:58 AM

rickypicky

01-17-06, 09:22 AM

Dan, great review! The more I hear, the more I'm convinced this is my ticket out of Directv and the other sat down-rezr's!!!! HOORAY!!!! :)

I also counted about 14 HD National (exclusive of broadcast HD)....that's about 2 YEARS ahead of D*!

Dan, if I could, can you give us details on your HDTV?

Thanks.

Ken,

Can you give me a link for the 14 HD National Channels? This link (http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Channels/FiosTV/channel.aspx) shows nine (9). Thanks! :)

Ken Ross

01-17-06, 09:41 AM

Rick, I'm also counting the Premiums, such as HBO, shown in this link:

http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Includes/FiOSTV/NorthTexasLineup.pdf

bfoster

01-17-06, 10:40 AM

Don & others sorry about the 'tude Sunday night, I indulged in a few during the NFL Playoff games :)

Here is the post at dslr (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13654977) that led me to believe the 2 amp draw was at 110v. The discussion was about adding external ups's to increase battery time and the current spec was never corrected in that thread.

The numbers I have been able to find are for the Tellabs ONT as Motorola has not released much as far as specs are concerned.

Fully loaded ONT about $2.25 a month. Actual consumption is going to depend on how many of the FIOS services you subscribe to.

If you have the Motorola unit that requires the NIM and d-link add about another $1.50.

I had, up until this thread, never heard of the product "Kill-a-Watt", looks like something worth having around the house.

danjb

01-17-06, 12:00 PM

One more FIOS data point: I decided to add the "movies" package (Starz, The Movie Channel, etc) to my account, as well as order two additional set top boxes. I called the FIOS support line for this (there is no direct line that I could find for FIOS TV). It took about 5 minutes to get through the general FIOS hold queue to the FIOS TV hold queue.

I then waited 85 minutes :eek: in the FIOS TV hold queue before talking to a person! Then, it took her 20 minutes (with many "let me put you on hold while I..." intervals) to process the above order. All I can say is I hope their support improves with time...

Incidentally, they want to charge a $55 install fee for the two additional set top boxes, and had to schedule a guy to come do it (they would not let me pick them up and install them myself). I know I was able to pick up an HD capable box from the Comcast office years ago w/o any install fee.

BTDT

01-17-06, 01:20 PM

Verizon appears to be getting some flack about their support surrounding FiOS at this point. I am wondering if you had called the FiOS TV order line (the 800 number on the web site) if you would have had better results. I have called that a couple of times and gotten an almost immediate response.

Come to think of it, this kind of behavior is pretty much on par for phone companies. New service orders are very quick. Support for existing service requires a long wait on the phone. Thank goodness for speaker phones!

I went ahead and ordered 3 DVRs and the movie/sports package with my setup. My thought was that it would be easier to go down from there.

BTW, did you get the DVR with your original set up? If so, was it the 160GB QIP6416? I am dreading potentially having them show up with older 120GB boxes.

DonCoolio

01-17-06, 01:37 PM

danjb

01-17-06, 05:09 PM

BTW, did you get the DVR with your original set up? If so, was it the 160GB QIP6416? I am dreading potentially having them show up with older 120GB boxes.Yes, it was a QIP6416... at least that was the model number printed on the box! I did not actually check the disk capacity.

Rick Adams

01-18-06, 03:16 AM

Well, after hitting a brick wall against a lot of the not-so-intelligent people at Verizon, and getting the same story day after day... Their web-site says I can get it, their marketing people will let me place an order whenever I call, and the higher ups refusing to allow me to have the service installed with a generic "there's a franchise issue." Since they seem to want to blame it on the county, I went to the county.

Local supervisor said there are no franchise issues, and to contact the Fairfax Co. agency in charge of overseeing local cable companies. So I spoke with one of the people in charge there, and they agree, no franchise issue exists, and that if their web-site says the service is available to me and they refuse service, the county wants to investigate it. They requested I file a formal complaint against Verizon on their web-site so they could take appropriate measures to resolve the problem. So even though that's a bit more extreme than I really wanted to take at this point, I did so earlier today.

Definitely not a good way to start out with the local governments... When hour after hour on the phone gives me no choice but to turn the the agency in charge of overseeing the franchise agreement, and they make me fill out a formal complaint which included a question asking how much I was seeking from a settlement... I have to imagine this is might turn into something Verizon does not want to deal with if the county gets the same ridiculous and nonsensical responses I got for the past week.

Hopefully this will just end up getting the response I've been looking for all along: An install that doesn't get canceled, or a real reason why the service is not available to me. The fellow I spoke with said he'd get back with me by the end of the week, so I'll just have to see what happens then.

2003SVTCobra

01-18-06, 09:10 AM

Rick, Do you by chance have FIOS internet service also, and did you get a static IP address for it. If so this might be your problem.

No Verizon TV with Static IP (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15066979)

Rick Adams

01-21-06, 12:50 AM

Nope, no static IP. Thanks for the read though, comforting to know that at least I'm not the only one Verizon is giving horrid service to.

DMBatch has posted that he's having the exact same problem that I am. Given we both have taken extreme steps in making sure that Verizon knows we are not part of Falls Church City, I'm at a loss as to why they are denying us service when I can still go on FIOS-TV's site and it says their service is available to my home.

I got a letter from the Fairfax Co. today in reply to my formal complaint stating they have been in contact with Verizon and that Verizon has ten days to give them a response, so it looks like I'll have my answer before February. I spoke with the guy I mentioned in my previous reply once again, and he seemed to be very upset that Verizon was denying multiple county residents service, so I'm confident that Verizon will either finally cease canceling my FIOS-TV order or give a very, very good explanation what "franchise issues" they were talking about when they gave that as the reason for denying DMBatch and myself service.

Sad to think my initial install date was scheduled for tomorrow (Saturday). 24 hours from now I could have been enjoying true HD and uncompressed SD.

Hoter

01-21-06, 08:11 AM

The Verizon trucks are rolling around my neighborhood as I type this. Anyone installed yet?

Dmon4u

01-21-06, 11:44 AM

Hope your experience is better than mine:

Verizon arrived in my little town last April. They got just out of town to my neighborhood in May and then disappeared till late June. They stopped and restarted and did not finish till early September - offering Internet Service. The Town Council was to vote on a Franchise agreement that same early September, but it was postponed till the end of the month. I have tried several times to find out if something passed, with no luck.

It's now January and there's been no word about FiOS Tv.

tommy def

01-21-06, 01:52 PM

No brainer is right Tommy! Let us know how your A/B with D* goes, we'd all be interested in this. :)

Well a Verizon installer showed up Thursday morning to hook up my new tv service at 9:00am. After six hours and two more guy's who had to come and help the install was a success. The installer said that he had trouble because I was the first in the area to get this service so he gave me his card and told me to call him if there are any problems. I thought that was nice, you can't even get a name from D*.

As far as the D* Verizion comparison I would like to say that there is no comparison Verizon wins hands down. I have D* hooked up to one of my HDMI inputs and Verizon in the other so I can switch between the two. You can see a nice improvement in the HD. for example I don't see microblocking on any off there channels like I do when I switch back to D* with the same show on. The picture also looks very sharp it makes the D* look almost dull when you compare the two. With that being said I'd like to ad that the standard channels look very watchable now. Don't get me wrong there still standard but much better then D*.

I have four boxes two Motorola OIP64XX and two OIP6200. I have not got to play with the 6200 box there hooked up to tv's I don't watch. As far as the dvr box the only thing I find to be a pain is that it has no a pass-through feature like in most other boxes. you have to put it on 1080i or 720p. The box will not switch resolutions like when you go from CBS to ABC. So I tried the 1394 input and it works but I can't tell if has pass-through because there is no display with 1394.

RScottyL

01-21-06, 02:20 PM

What upload/download speeds do you get?

Verizon offers three FIOS Internet packages:

(Speeds are download/upload in Mbps)

Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps: $34.95/mo.
Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps: $44.95/mo.
Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps: $179.95/mo

Ken Ross

01-21-06, 09:39 PM

As far as the D* Verizion comparison I would like to say that there is no comparison Verizon wins hands down. I have D* hooked up to one of my HDMI inputs and Verizon in the other so I can switch between the two. You can see a nice improvement in the HD. for example I don't see microblocking on any off there channels like I do when I switch back to D* with the same show on. The picture also looks very sharp it makes the D* look almost dull when you compare the two. With that being said I'd like to ad that the standard channels look very watchable now. Don't get me wrong there still standard but much better then D*.

This is the stuff that HD lovers just relish hearing! I can't wait to give D* the boot, I just can't wait....and yes, I'll be more than happy to take my 'early termination' fee. We FINALLY have an alternative to the crap that D* has been giving us for years!

tommy def

01-21-06, 09:46 PM

This is the stuff that HD lovers just relish hearing! I can't wait to give D* the boot, I just can't wait....and yes, I'll be more than happy to take my 'early termination' fee. We FINALLY have an alternative to the crap that D* has been giving us for years!

Another great thing is I'm saving money with Verizon.

Dmon4u

01-22-06, 12:45 AM

I could not find anyone posting the Channel List for Tampa, so here it is:

http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Includes/FiOSTV/TampaLineup.pdf

SD Locals
2 WCLF-TV 22
3 PBS-WEDU-TV 3
5 Telefutura- WFTT-TV 50
6 Univision-WVEA-TV 62
7 ABC-WWSB-TV 40
8 NBC-WFLA-TV 8
9 WGN-TV 9
10 CBS-WTSP-TV 10
11 ABC-WFTS-TV 28
12 IND-WMOR-TV 32
13 FOX-WVTV-TV 13
16 PBS-WUSF-TV 16
17 IND-WXPX-TV 66
18 Local Edu
19 Local Gov.
38 WB-WTTA-TV 38
47 TV Guide

HDTV Locals
800 CBS-WTSP-TV 24
801 ABC-WFTS-TV 29
802 IND-WMOR-TV 19
803 FOX-WVTV-TV 12
805 PBS-WEDU-TV 54
806 WB-WTTA-TV 38
807 ABC-WWSB-TV 52
808 NBC-WFLA-TV 7

The rest of the channels list looks about the same as in the other 2 areas that FiOS TV is available.

Marcus Carr

01-22-06, 03:50 AM

Newton, Massachusetts:

Verizon enters cable picture
Negotiating fees to be 3d provider
By Connie Paige, Globe Correspondent | January 19, 2006

Newton residents could be the winners if a looming three-way battle for their cable TV dollars pushes down rates.

Verizon is seeking a cable franchise from the city, which is already served by Comcast and RCN.

But first the telecommunications giant and the city have to agree on fees to support local-access programming and customer service standards.

''We have some requirements that other providers fulfill," said Jeremy Solomon, the city spokesman. ''We are asking Verizon to fulfill those same requirements. If they meet them or surpass them, we'll consider their application."

A spokesman for Verizon, the corporate descendant of New England Telephone, said the company is committed to local access programming and providing competitive customer service in Newton, but working out the details takes time.

''We think the negotiations are very much on track," Verizon spokesman John Hoey said Monday. The company is scheduled to meet with city officials again next month.

If granted the franchise in Newton, Verizon would vie for an estimated 25,000 customers, according to Theresa Park, telecommunications specialist in the city's Department of Planning and Development. Comcast has 80 percent of the cable market, the city says.

Newton is one of more than 30 communities in Massachusetts where Verizon is trying to offer telephone, high-speed Internet, and television services over a fiber-optic network, called FiOS, that it touts as being faster than the cable companies' equipment. The rollout appears to be taking longer than expected.

A year ago, Verizon announced Holliston, Hopkinton, Lexington, Lincoln, Natick, Sherborn, and Westborough, along with Newton, as among the local targeted communities.

However, since then, the company has obtained a cable TV license only in Woburn. Verizon is due to launch the Woburn service very soon, Hoey said. Like Newton, Woburn is one of a small number of communities that have more than one cable provider.

In Newton, Verizon would be going head-to-head with Comcast and RCN on rates, the number and variety of on-demand program offerings, and Internet speed. The higher the speed, the easier it is to download large files, such as movies.

Hoey said Verizon's new FiOS service will have ''hundreds and hundreds" of channels on demand, and faster Internet than any existing carrier in the state.

In its test market, Keller, Texas, Verizon offers 1,800 on-demand titles and 20 channels of high-definition cable TV. The slowest and least expensive Internet service moves at 5 megabits per second, while service up to 30 megabits per second also is available.

By comparison, Comcast offers 3,800 programs on demand and 18 high-definition channels. While Comcast's highest Internet speed is 8 megabits per second, the company has the capacity to make it faster, according to spokesman Marc Goodman.

''I think it's worth pointing out that speed simply for the sake of speed is not what consumers demand," Goodman said last week.

The Verizon bill for standard cable TV, Internet, and local and long-distance phone service in Texas totals $104.85 per month, according to Hoey.

Price comparisons with existing services in Newton are difficult, since many of the local rates are figured into short-term promotions. Park, the city's telecommunications specialist, predicted that if Verizon enters the market, every company will lower its prices.

''Experience has shown that in other places where there's competition, rates are better," she said.

In Newton, Comcast and RCN are required to pay 5 percent of their gross annual revenue as a franchise fee to the city. Of that, 4 percent supports public, educational, and government programming on NewTV, the local-access channel. Solomon said the city intends to hold Verizon to a similar obligation. He said the city also wants the same pledges from Verizon as from the other providers regarding customer service for setup, problems, and outages.

Paul Berg, executive director of the Newton Communications Access Center, which runs NewTV, said if Verizon manages to secure a franchise agreement without the fees, his operation would be out of business. However, he said he has no other problem with Verizon entering the cable market. ''I think it's OK if they play fair," said Berg. ''There's an existing set of rules, and they should follow them."

Hoey said Verizon is committed to providing cable-access TV in Newton, and noted that the company's contract with Woburn includes a 4.5 percent franchise fee earmarked for local shows.

Comcast and RCN said Verizon faces an uphill fight.

''Verizon is just catching up, and we're already there, offering . . . advanced services for our customers, with a network that's built to evolve," said Comcast's Goodman.

He quoted a report by Convergence Consulting Group Ltd. about the future of cable TV and phone companies. The Toronto-based company forecast in October that by 2009, North American cable companies will have 21 percent of residential phone customers, up from about 5 percent in 2005, while phone providers will have 5 percent of TV subscribers.

RCN spokeswoman Linda Duggan expressed similar skepticism about Verizon's entry into TV.

''Verizon will have a difficult time competing against us because we created the business model Verizon is now trying to replicate," Duggan said via e-mail last week. ''It is difficult to transition a business from offering one service to three and get it right."

Duggan also said that Verizon is attempting to insert into its contracts a clause allowing it to pull out of a market if it deems it has not attracted enough customers in its first three years. ''That is not good business or good customer relations," Duggan said. ''RCN is committed to our markets."

If Newton officials want to rejigger the opt-out clause, Hoey said, ''We will be glad to discuss it."

Hoey disputed the Toronto group's forecast. He said Verizon has picked up 20 percent of potential cable subscribers in Keller since the rollout last September.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/01/19/verizon_enters_cable_picture/

fire407

01-22-06, 04:18 AM

As far as the D* Verizion comparison I would like to say that there is no comparison Verizon wins hands down. I have D* hooked up to one of my HDMI inputs and Verizon in the other so I can switch between the two. You can see a nice improvement in the HD. for example I don't see microblocking on any off there channels like I do when I switch back to D* with the same show on. The picture also looks very sharp it makes the D* look almost dull when you compare the two. With that being said I'd like to ad that the standard channels look very watchable now. Don't get me wrong there still standard but much better then D*.
It's been said before, but I just want to reiterate that about 4 years ago DirecTV had great looking HDTV. Of course they only had HBO, Showtime, and HD-Net and each HD channel was on a separate transponder, but the picture was what HD was suppose to be. If Verizon can keep the quality pristeen with all of their HD channels, then I'm guessing that many of us will switch from DirecTV to Verizon as soon as it becomes available. We should forward the comparison to DirecTV.

PaulGo

01-22-06, 11:40 AM

Interesting article in todays Washington Post:
It appears once the telephone companies get their foot in the door with FIOS they want to get a slice of the pie from the content providers .

The Coming Tug of War Over the Internet

By Christopher Stern
Sunday, January 22, 2006

Do you prefer to search for information online with Google or Yahoo? What about bargain shopping -- do you go to Amazon or eBay? Many of us make these kinds of decisions several times a day, based on who knows what -- maybe you don't like bidding, or maybe Google's clean white search page suits you better than Yahoo's colorful clutter.

But the nation's largest telephone companies have a new business plan, and if it comes to pass you may one day discover that Yahoo suddenly responds much faster to your inquiries, overriding your affinity for Google. Or that Amazon's Web site seems sluggish compared with eBay's.

The changes may sound subtle, but make no mistake: The telecommunications companies' proposals have the potential, within just a few years, to alter the flow of commerce and information -- and your personal experience -- on the Internet. For the first time, the companies that own the equipment that delivers the Internet to your office, cubicle, den and dorm room could, for a price, give one company priority on their networks over another.

This represents a break with the commercial meritocracy that has ruled the Internet until now. We've come to expect that the people who own the phone and cable lines remain "neutral," doing nothing to influence the content on your computer screen. And may the best Web site win.

For more than a year, public interest groups, including the Consumer Federation and Consumers Union, have been lobbying Congress and the Federal Communications Commission to write the concept called "network neutrality" into law and regulation. Google and Yahoo have joined their lobbying efforts. And online retailers, Internet travel services, news media and hundreds of other companies that do business on the Web also have a lot at stake.

Meanwhile, on the other side, companies like AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth are lobbying just as hard, saying that they need to find new ways to pay for the expense of building faster, better communication networks. And, they add, because these new networks will compete with those belonging to Comcast, Time Warner and oth er cable companies -- which currently have about

55 percent of the residential broadband market -- this will eventually bring down the price of your high-speed Internet service and television access.

Would these new fees imposed by carriers alter the basic nature of the Internet by putting bumps and detours on the much ballyhooed information superhighway? No, say the telephone companies. Giving priority to a company that pays more, they say, is just offering another tier of service -- like an airline offering business as well as economy class. Network neutrality, they say, is a solution in search of a problem.

Maybe you've never heard of this issue -- and if so, you're far from alone. In my job as a media analyst, I've been talking in recent weeks to lobbyists for some of Hollywood's major entertainment conglomerates. These are people who know that consumers' ability to download their studios' movies and television shows as easily and cheaply as anyone else's will be key to the studios' future profits. Yet hardly any of them were more than vaguely concerned about the potential ramifications of network neutrality.

But lately the issue, a matter of heated debate on obscure blogs and among analysts like me, has begun to attract the attention of the mainstream press. There are a couple of reasons.

One is that Congress is taking first steps toward updating and rewriting the Telecommunications Act of 1996, a key legal underpinning for media, telecommunications and Internet activity. This process, required by technological advances, will probably take a year to complete.

More dramatically, executives at AT&T and BellSouth got into the headlines recently with a series of audacious statements. In a November Business Week story, AT&T Chairman Edward E. Whitacre Jr. complained that Internet content providers were getting a free ride: "They don't have any fiber out there. They don't have any wires. . . . They use my lines for free -- and that's bull," he said. "For a Google or a Yahoo or a Vonage or anybody to expect to use these pipes for free is nuts!''

It was a stunner. Whitacre had apparently declared that AT&T planned to unilaterally abandon its role as a neutral carrier.

Whether or not you agree with Whitacre, you can understand his frustration. Companies like Google and Yahoo pay some fees to connect to their servers to the Internet, but AT&T will collect little if any additional revenue when Yahoo starts offering new features that take up lots of bandwidth on the Internet. When Yahoo's millions of customers download huge blocks of video or play complex video games, AT&T ends up carrying that increased digital traffic without additional financial compensation.

But for public interest advocates, Whitacre's outburst was a Clint Eastwood moment. "Make my day," said Gigi Sohn of Public Knowledge, which focuses on defending consumer rights in the digital world.

Previously, the group had been having trouble convincing members of Congress that there was a network neutrality problem. Legislators and staffers repeatedly had noted to Sohn that no major telephone company had ever used its network to discriminate against other companies. "Whitacre just made the case for regulation," said Sohn. "This was as good as it can get."

Other AT&T executives and spokesmen later said that Whitacre had only been talking about access to a new high-speed broadband network. Industry executives also assured critics that despite Whitacre's bluster, AT&T would never block any Web site, or even degrade the service of a company doing business on the Internet -- even if that service was a voice-over-Internet company such as Vonage, which competes directly with AT&T's core telephone business.

But the blog storm over Whitacre's comments had hardly died down when an executive with BellSouth was quoted saying that the company would consider charging Apple five or 10 cents extra each time a customer downloaded a song using iTunes. Bloggers erupted again, saying that this would certainly drive up the cost of the hugely popular music downloading service.

Google and others say that the prospect of telephone companies imposing new fees on innovative and successful ventures is exactly the kind of thing that deters online commerce. "If carriers are able to control what consumers do on the Internet, that threatens the model of Internet communications that has been wildly successful," said Alan Davidson, Washington policy counsel for Google.

Cable companies abhor the idea of enforced network neutrality just as much as the telephone companies. But so far their executives have remained silent, and stayed out of the crossfire.

The Republican-led Congress is struggling with the issue. On one hand, it has taken a deregulatory approach to the Internet, but on the other, it can't ignore the concerns of Google, Yahoo and eBay, some of the most successful companies of the last 10 years. These companies alone have built up businesses worth hundreds of billions of dollars on an unfettered Internet. Moreover, unfettered Internet access has come to be seen by Americans in general as not just a privilege or a product, but a right akin to free speech and free association.

Over the coming months, the Telecommunications Act will take shape as several different legislative proposals are combined to create a final law. Some of the proposed bills include language on network neutrality, others don't.

The conventional wisdom is that the recent statements by Bell company executives have given network neutrality some momentum. But the bill is not expected to be completed until 2007, leaving lots of time for lobbyists to battle over the strength of the final language.

The FCC, spurred by Commissioner Michael Copps, acknowledged the importance of the issue last October, when it approved two mammoth mergers in the telecommunications industry -- Verizon's $8.5 billion purchase of MCI and SBC Communications' $16 billion purchase of AT&T (SBC quickly assumed the more widely known brand name of AT&T).

One of the few conditions that the FCC put on the merged companies was that they abide by the concept of network neutrality for at least two years. But it's not clear if companies would even be in violation of the relatively vague FCC language if BellSouth or AT&T proceeded with their plan to give one company "priority" over others on the Internet. Last week I asked several telecommunications lawyers, including some FCC staffers, if AT&T would be in violation of its merger agreement if it granted "priority" status to some companies for a fee. The consistent response I got was, "That's a really good question."

At the end of the day, Google's Davidson says that his biggest worry is not for Google but for the prospect of bringing fresh innovation to the Internet. After all, if worse comes to worst, Google can pay AT&T or BellSouth to maintain its role as the Internet's dominant search engine. But the bright young start-up with the next big innovative idea won't have that option.

digital_dilemma

01-23-06, 12:09 AM

[QUOTE=PaulGo]Interesting article in todays Washington Post:
It appears once the telephone companies get their foot in the door with FIOS they want to get a slice of the pie from the content providers .

While an interesting read, this has nothing to do with HDTV. Please move this post to an appropriate forum.

Veander

01-23-06, 09:51 AM

John Mason

01-23-06, 10:27 AM

Is there any information available about FiOS's distribution schedule? I seem to see it's only available in a select area right now. I'm ready to send DirecTV the big good-bye including the early termination fee!E-mailed them recently asking the same about any FIOS schedule for NYC, pointing out that one cable system here had a map of the city several years back as they were rewiring it for hybrid fiber/cable delivery, showing planned upgrades and dates in different colors. Maybe if Verizon gets enough requests they'll post a similar U.S. map. -- John

Richard T Adams

01-24-06, 10:07 AM

Hi Billodom,

I recall an earlier post that you mentioned you were scheduled to have FIOS TV installed on the 23rd. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dick Adams

raaj

01-24-06, 10:16 AM

billodom

01-24-06, 10:17 AM

Hi Billodom,

I recall an earlier post that you mentioned you were scheduled to have FIOS TV installed on the 23rd. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dick Adams

Actually today is the day :D. Installation has been confirmed. Not much longer now. Here are just a few of some questions I will be getting answers to soon:

1) Are they offering HDNet here yet? Verizon rep says yes. Verizon website for Fairfax County listings says no. Apparently Tampa area was not getting it, either, but were scheduled to soon.
2) Are they offering Comcast Sportsnet Mid-Atlantic? No Wizards or Caps games would stymie their rollout here, I would think. We will get Nats games through Verizon's carriage of Mid-Atlantic Sports Net.
3) How is my use of HDMI connectivity going to affect my digital audio out to my AV receiver?
4) Will they be able to provide full bit rate transmission of our two PBS-HD locals instead of the bandwidth-starved feeds we get OTA?

Ken Ross

01-24-06, 11:27 AM

Good luck Bill and let us know how the PQ compares.

JJ Davis

01-24-06, 01:14 PM

I don't believe that they actually REMOVE the copper but it is disconnected and even cut off at the ground level. It isn't needed even for telco service. I believe that the intent is to eventually have everybody on fiber even if you have telco service only. So, I'm understanding that if I dropped both FIOS TV and internet that my telephone would still be handled via fiber.

Hope this helps.

John

bfoster

01-24-06, 01:33 PM

Moving you to fiber only makes it near impossible that a CLEC or third party DSL provider could gain access to you through Verizon's network.

TexasAg1996

01-24-06, 01:33 PM

For people with the FiOS service, is it true that Verizon will permanently remove the copper telephone lines running to your premises when they install FiOS ?? If so, isn't this illegal in areas not served by Verizon residential phone service? And won't residential communities object to anyone renting their houses from installing FiOS? Because the next person might not want to fork out the moolah for FiOS and may want to choose AOL dialup instead?

They left my old copper lines intact all the way to the box on the side of my house (the box from my old service provider). In fact, right now I have one phone line through Verizon Fios and one through my old service provider's copper lines.

bfoster

01-24-06, 01:45 PM

Who is your Telco service provider?

TexasAg1996

01-24-06, 01:52 PM

Who is your Telco service provider?

My old service provider was Grande Communications. Verizon was supposed to port 2 telephone numbers over from them and install 2 telephone lines when they installed service, but somehow only one number got ported. The technician who installed my service said specifically he was not allowed to touch the second phone line. So, I now have copper lines through my yard supporting one phone line and a fiber optic cable through my yard supporting the other phone line, Internet service, and TV service.

Verizon is scheduled to come out again and set up the second phone line once that number gets ported over.

bfoster

01-24-06, 02:53 PM

Who owns the copper? Verizon or Grande?

TexasAg1996

01-24-06, 03:05 PM

Who owns the copper? Verizon or Grande?

Has to be Grande. Verizon couldn't provide service in our area when we first moved there. Is that what people are seeing? Verizon cutting their own copper lines?

BTDT

01-24-06, 04:18 PM

Actually today is the day :D. Installation has been confirmed. Not much longer now. Here are just a few of some questions I will be getting answers to soon:

1) Are they offering HDNet here yet? Verizon rep says yes. Verizon website for Fairfax County listings says no. Apparently Tampa area was not getting it, either, but were scheduled to soon.
2) Are they offering Comcast Sportsnet Mid-Atlantic? No Wizards or Caps games would stymie their rollout here, I would think. We will get Nats games through Verizon's carriage of Mid-Atlantic Sports Net.
3) How is my use of HDMI connectivity going to affect my digital audio out to my AV receiver?
4) Will they be able to provide full bit rate transmission of our two PBS-HD locals instead of the bandwidth-starved feeds we get OTA?
Hope your install has gone well (or will go well?). I am scheduled for Friday.

Let us know your impressions of the DVR (should be a QIP6416) and how it compares to an HD-TiVo (if you have that comparison point). I know that will be the major factor in my household, only trumped by pure "quality of service" problems like missed recordings, box failures, etc.

Eugene157

01-24-06, 08:23 PM

Here in Palm Desert CA Verizon is talking about video by March or so.
I have FIOS now for telephone and internet and very happy. In fact they used the phone copper wire to pull the fiber into the box and then cut it off, no more copper.
The downside is only 3 or so hours of use during a power failure with the backup battery.

Cable and cable internet here is fairly expensive and FIOS is a much better deal in terms of speed and cost.
Will stop regular phone service soon and only use Vonage, it has worked very well for about 9 month now plus two cell phones.

Looking forward to video.

digital_dilemma

01-25-06, 12:05 AM

Tomorrow night will be my last with D*. :p FiosTV is confirmed for install on this Thursday :D Full report soon.

DaveFi

01-25-06, 12:11 AM

Anyone in an apt/condo have FIOS yet? How do they do it?

I live in a big development and all of my town is wired up for it already.

billodom

01-25-06, 03:49 AM

Hope your install has gone well (or will go well?). I am scheduled for Friday.

Let us know your impressions of the DVR (should be a QIP6416) and how it compares to an HD-TiVo (if you have that comparison point). I know that will be the major factor in my household, only trumped by pure "quality of service" problems like missed recordings, box failures, etc.

Wow! Where do I start? I have to grab a few hours of sleep so I will try to be concise. Let me point anyone who is interested in perhaps some of the more technical aspects to the Verizon FiOS section of broadbandreports.com (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiber). I have read a lot there and find it to be complementary of AVS. They will discuss and explain such things as the NIM and what its function is. My overall install experience was very positive. I didn't expect anything less. And, no, I am not a shill for Verizon. I've had my share of communications issues with them over the years but I am sold on FiOS. Its reliability is unparalleled. My install from start to finish took about 4-1/2 hours. Three different techs were here, arriving about an hour apart. Good team effort. They ran cable to three different locations, two upstairs bedrooms and the basement where my setup is. They put the NIM in the loop and got everything tested, downloaded and set up. Nothing real eventful in the install. I haven't had any glitches to this point some 10 hours into my service. Let me just wrap this up with some overall thoughts and add more later. Does the service have some glitches? You betcha. Do I think they are going to be resolved? Absolutely. Here are some of the ones I have noted thus far:

1) HDMI output kills 5.1 digital audio. Is it a firmware problem? I have read that it is. Will an AV receiver with HDMI switching take care of it? I sure hope so. For now I have decided to go with component even though I'd rather go digital with my DLP. I can't be without digital audio.
2) No HDNet to this point--at least not here. I called Verizon last night (Tuesday 1/24) and the rep I spoke with relayed this issue to his technical people. He is calling me later this morning and plans to apply some type of remote "fix." I'll let you know. I am also missing a couple of the ESPN suite of channels. I don't care about those since they're SD, anyway ;).
3) We don't have our local RSN so far. It's owned by Comcast. I don't think Comcast can keep Verizon from carrying it but it may take a while. Not having our local NBA and NHL team on your system is not going to fly for some people.
4) A few of our local stations' analog feeds are being simulcast in our digital tier (FOX, UPN and one of our PBS stations) so we are not getting HD programming from them. Hopefully that is something minor and can be corrected tomorrow as well.
5) No sports subscriptions. Verizon apparently has to deal with iNDemand for those rights.

Just briefly on the plus side:
1) You folks with the big displays are going to notice more than me watching on a 46-inch screen from 12 feet away, but the picture quality is definitely better. Some of the SD I have seen appears kind of grainy but not in a bad way. The difference in resolution is striking. It may be comparable for those folks with digital cable but it is huge step-up from D*.
2) The limited IPTV they are using with the program guide and the VOD is very responsive. I am not coming out of an HD-TiVo background so I don't have that as a comparison. So far I have been impressed. I downloaded the codes for the DCT6412 into my MX-700 and haven't missed a beat.
3) I don't have to tell anyone who is reading this thread about the breadth of HD we lucky FiOS people are getting. This service at the outset is not going to please everyone, particularly the sports fans. I will be posting further experiences in the days ahead. One other note: firewire port is 6 pin. I erroneously assumed it was 4 based on my DVHS VCRs.

Tomorrow night will be my last with D*. FiosTV is confirmed for install on this Thursday Full report soon.
Good luck. Will be looking forward to your report. I bid D* farewell last night. A little bittersweet after 6-1/2 years, but no turning back now.

BTDT

01-25-06, 06:56 AM

Glad your install and experience so far has gone so well! I am looking forward to my own.

I am a bit concerned that you mention the DCT6412. I absolutely want the QIP6416, as it has a 160GB disk and thus more recording space. The rest of its functions may be equivalent, but I think the QIP is a bit more future-ready for what F* plans in the near future. It seems that everyone with recent installs in my area has gotten the QIP, so perhaps we are the close-in test market for this newer device?....

billodom

01-25-06, 07:28 AM

Glad your install and experience so far has gone so well! I am looking forward to my own.

I am a bit concerned that you mention the DCT6412. I absolutely want the QIP6416....

Never fear. I did indeed receive the QIP6416. I had mentioned it in my first draft but left it on the cutting room floor (it was getting late) ;). URC doesn't yet have remote control codes for the QIP6416 so I opted for the codes for the closest match, the DCT6412, instead. Sorry for the confusion.

TexasAg1996

01-25-06, 08:20 AM

Never fear. I did indeed receive the QIP6416. I had mentioned it in my first draft but left it on the cutting room floor (it was getting late) ;). URC doesn't yet have remote control codes for the QIP6416 so I opted for the codes for the closest match, the DCT6412, instead. Sorry for the confusion.

Do the codes you have for the DCT6412 include the ability to swap tuners and have a 30-sec skip (and do they work with the QIP6416)? These 2 features are what I miss most from my D* Tivo unit.

DonCoolio

01-25-06, 10:54 AM

swap tuners 30 sec skip http://www.***************.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/5/Number/776734/Main/694534/

TexasAg1996

01-25-06, 11:30 AM

swap tuners 30 sec skip http://www.***************.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/5/Number/776734/Main/694534/

The QIP6416 boxes come with a black remote that lacks a "Setup" button. These black remotes can't be user-reprogrammed (as far as I know).

I'm trying to get my hands on the silver remote that used to come with the DCT6412 boxes. The silver remotes can be reprogrammed as shown in the link you provided.

I was hoping someone could confirm that the DCT6412's codes for swapping tuners and skipping 30 seconds worked with the QIP6416. If not, the silver remote won't help me get these features with the QIP6416.

billodom

01-25-06, 12:33 PM

The QIP6416 boxes come with a black remote that lacks a "Setup" button. These black remotes can't be user-reprogrammed (as far as I know).

I'm trying to get my hands on the silver remote that used to come with the DCT6412 boxes. The silver remotes can be reprogrammed as shown in the link you provided.

I was hoping someone could confirm that the DCT6412's codes for swapping tuners and skipping 30 seconds worked with the QIP6416. If not, the silver remote won't help me get these features with the QIP6416.

Hello again. The remote model number is DRC800. On a quick read of the remote manuel (dated 11/03), it appears the only user activated options are the following:

981--reset all settings
990--checking codes
992--reassigning device keys

Picture-in-Picture settings are currently disabled. I see no way of doing a swap or skip function. There is a PIP swap button but as I said they haven't enabled PIP.

Remote is squishy and cheap and has to be aimed directly at 6416. Hopefully will just take some getting used to. Made in China. 6416 is made in Taiwan.

TexasAg1996

01-25-06, 12:50 PM

Hello again. The remote model number is DRC800. On a quick read of the remote manuel (dated 11/03), it appears the only user activated options are the following:

981--reset all settings
990--checking codes
992--reassigning device keys

Picture-in-Picture settings are currently disabled. I see no way of doing a swap or skip function. There is a PIP swap button but as I said they haven't enabled PIP.

Remote is squishy and cheap and has to be aimed directly at 6416. Hopefully will just take some getting used to. Made in China. 6416 is made in Taiwan.

I have the same remote.

You said you were getting the codes for the DCT6412 from URC. I know the DCT6412 supports the swap tuner and 30-second skip features (since the silver remotes for those boxes can be programmed to use these features). Did you program a universal remote with the DCT6412's codes? If so, did you try to use the swap tuner and 30-second skip features?

dmbatch

01-25-06, 12:59 PM

TexasAg1996

01-25-06, 01:07 PM

This is what Motorola says about the DRC800.

http://motorola.digitalriver.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=motostor&Locale=en_US&Env=BASE&productID=35029300

A whole $20 from their site

Also the users guide;

http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/DRC800/downloads/DRC800_User_Guide.pdf

It's not an issue of getting this remote. I already have it. The issue is whether the QIP6416 box can actually perform a swap tuner function and a 30-second skip function. If it can, I'm hoping the silver remote previously shipped with the DCT6412 box can be used with the QIP6416 to access these features.

dmbatch

01-25-06, 01:18 PM

It's not an issue of getting this remote. I already have it. The issue is whether the QIP6416 box can actually perform a swap tuner function and a 30-second skip function. If it can, I'm hoping the silver remote previously shipped with the DCT6412 box can be used with the QIP6416 to access these features.

I know you have the remote. Bill commented on how cheap it felt and I was just pointing out that if it can be had for $20 from Motorola then it is, in fact, cheap.

Also note on the users guide that some functions can only be set by the provider.

What is the model number of the remote that came with the 6412?

TexasAg1996

01-25-06, 01:22 PM

I know you have the remote. Bill commented on how cheap it felt and I was just pointing out that if it can be had for $20 from Motorola then it is, in fact, cheap.

Also note on the users guide that some functions can only be set by the provider.

What is the model number of the remote that came with the 6412?

My bad. Sorry.

I've only ever seen it referred to as the "silver remote." I've never seen a model number.

billodom

01-25-06, 01:46 PM

You said you were getting the codes for the DCT6412 from URC. I know the DCT6412 supports the swap tuner and 30-second skip features (since the silver remotes for those boxes can be programmed to use these features). Did you program a universal remote with the DCT6412's codes? If so, did you try to use the swap tuner and 30-second skip features?

Yes, I did. With the touch of my MX-700 remote and the power of the software, it is very responsive indeed. It is really lightning fast. There are some navigation things I hope can be corrected or modified farther along. The 30-second skip feature was a part of the code set that I downloaded but it is DOA. Totally as expected from what I have read. Of course not coming out of a TiVo background I don't know what I am missing--or not missing as the case may be. ;) I haven't fooled with the recording functions much yet but I just started recording two separate programs and was able to toggle back and forth between them using the Previous Channel button on my MX-700. Would that satisfy the "swap" function? As I said, the only swap button is in the PIP area. There is also a PIP move button. All disabled currently. Also, there was no swap function in the code set I downloaded.

rickypicky

01-25-06, 04:05 PM

4) A few of our local stations' analog feeds are being simulcast in our digital tier (FOX, UPN and one of our PBS stations) so we are not getting HD programming from them. Hopefully that is something minor and can be corrected tomorrow as well.

Not sure I understand this one. Are you saying you aren't getting the DC FOX-HD, UPN-HD and PBS-HD channels? :confused:

billodom

01-25-06, 04:46 PM

Not sure I understand this one. Are you saying you aren't getting the DC FOX-HD, UPN-HD and PBS-HD channels? :confused:

Let me respond to that over in the Local DMA Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6996099#post6996099).

biker19

01-25-06, 07:03 PM

Bill,
Did you get the sense that the FIOS install crew was receptive to your needs? I don't need any cabling installed - just the DVR. How long was it after the cabling was done until you got a picture? Was anything done to the ONT? Do you also have FIOS Internet and was that affected in anyway? Our area must be a different head end - service not available here until early March.

biker19

01-25-06, 07:51 PM

Has to be Grande. Verizon couldn't provide service in our area when we first moved there. Is that what people are seeing? Verizon cutting their own copper lines?
Back to the telephone pole - Verizon was the Telco in my area and all copper is replaced with fiber from the pole in the street to the house. I didn't really care about a "normal" Telco connection - I have no regular land line - Vonage VoIP only. Unless high speed Internet is not available to wherever I move next I don't think I'll ever have traditional telephone service again!

Biker, whose pet peave is the nickle-and-dime telco/locality taxes. :(

fmsjr

01-25-06, 08:21 PM

Back to the telephone pole - Verizon was the Telco in my area and all copper is replaced with fiber from the pole in the street to the house....(
We have 3 lines... all on different accounts. (Son has his own line, wife's office pays for another.) Only one line got cut over... the one associated with FiOS (where the FiOS billing shows up.)
I suppose if you had DSL and didn't give it up (maybe for a month?) the associated line wouldn't get cut over.

biker19

01-25-06, 08:35 PM

We have 3 lines... all on different accounts. (Son has his own line, wife's office pays for another.) Only one line got cut over... the one associated with FiOS (where the FiOS billing shows up.)
I suppose if you had DSL and didn't give it up (maybe for a month?) the associated line wouldn't get cut over.
I didn't have a choice of DSL - Verizon told me "it's FIOS or nothing".

With enough planning they should have been able to cut over all 3 at the same time - the ONT has 4 lines. I'm sure Verizon would much rather have an all fiber connection to the house - cuts down on confusion come maintanance time.

Has anyone who has gotten FIOS TV been able to deal w/Verizon on pricing? I wonder if they'll match the cable co pricing - kinda like pitting two car dealers in a price matching war.

TexasAg1996

01-26-06, 08:24 AM

Has anyone who has gotten FIOS TV been able to deal w/Verizon on pricing? I wonder if they'll match the cable co pricing - kinda like pitting two car dealers in a price matching war.

Fios TV was cheaper for me than DirecTV (and I didn't even have HD with DirecTV). I have heard that if you agree to a year's commitment they will either give you a cable box free or give you some kind of discount on a movie package.

dallashd

01-26-06, 01:05 PM

I know there have been multiple posts about FiOS TV, but I had it installed Tuesday afternoon and here are some of my first impressions about it:

-First off...the installation was very smooth. I already had FiOS Internet so the ONT and power supply was already installed. The tech was at my house for about 1-1.5 hours. Not only did he wire our main TV with the HD DVR and the other TV with the regular STB, he activated all the coax jacks in the house for analog cable. He installed the NIM or NIN (not for sure which one) right next to our existing router and made everything look very nice. He even threw in the last HDMI cable he had...no charge! Just said to tell others to sign up.

-When speaking to the tech he told me they are not being able to keep up with install requests. I live in the DFW Metroplex and it is exploding in popularity around here. He said they have been putting in crazy hours just to keep pace with the requests for installation.

-I am subscribing to the Expanded Basic package which include the HD channels and local in HD. The PQ is unbelievable! Even the other digital channels seem to look better than when we had D*.

-I had the SD TiVO from D* for the past 2 years and liked the TiVO software so getting used to this new DVR software will take some getting used to. It is a little more difficult to set up a season pass and to do some other things. There are a few more clicks invloved. Overall, I think I will really grow to like it.

To sum it up...if you have access to FiOS and are can get it installed...go for it! You will not be disappointed!

steverobertson

01-26-06, 01:19 PM

Thanks for the review I am waiting for it to be offered in my area as I am tired of D* although ST still is a hook to keep me.

celticpride

01-26-06, 01:20 PM

I Believe Our Town Apple Valley California Sighned An Agreement For Verizon Fiostv, I Can`t Wait As I Am Tired Of Directv Taking So Long Getting National Hd Channels.

cane99

01-26-06, 03:38 PM

I am moving to Dallas in a couple of months and I can't wait to get FIOS. The more I read the more excited I get about their service.

NetworkTV

01-26-06, 04:20 PM

I have a feeling that SBC will wire us up about the time that DirecTV 20 launches. By then, I won't need to consider it.

HDntheCity

01-26-06, 04:41 PM

thanx dallashd & keep the user reviews comin'. i am also very excited about FiOS as i will be moving to the Hampton Roads, Va. area later this year. FiOS internet is being rolled out in parts of that area. Fairfax Co. Va. already has the TV service.
user impressions of the install & quality of service are what we want to hear about so we can make informed decisions. thanks again!!!!

jim

Rakesh.S

01-26-06, 05:36 PM

jimrimback

01-26-06, 07:56 PM

Anyone in an apt/condo have FIOS yet? How do they do it?

I live in a big development and all of my town is wired up for it already.

My group just finished cabling the first apartment complex in NJ (I have also been told it's the 1st in the nation). The complex is a two story, garden style layout with a maximum of 20 units per building. (I believe they will be "lighting it up" in the next month or so)

A pathway contractor installed conduit running from the fiber distribution terminal (FDT), through "stacked" utility closets to the attic, then branching off to the individual apartment's utility room. We pulled a single multi-mode fiber to each of the utility rooms.

The ONT, power supply and battery backup are going to be installed in the utility room and the POTS, Data and Video will be distributed from there.

Going forward, we have been told that apartments/condos will be outfitted with either "microduct" or surface mounted ducts (the sample I saw looks like crown molding), making the installation a breeze. Apt/condo unit layouts obviously vary and will dictate the pathway.

The biggest stumbling block, in NJ at least, is gaining right of way from the complex owners.

AMorrison

01-26-06, 08:19 PM

I am moving to Dallas in a couple of months and I can't wait to get FIOS. The more I read the more excited I get about their service.

Which city are you moving to? Verizon doesn't cover this whole area. In fact I don't think they serve any part of Dallas itself. Does anyone know otherwise?

Ken Ross

01-26-06, 08:53 PM

I have yet to read a FIOS review that didn't rate the PQ as unquestionably superior to D*. This is the news that we have all waited so long for. We finally have an alternative! :)

Gary Murrell

01-26-06, 10:52 PM

Fios I think says and delivers True untouched HDTV, they have no reason to screw with it that I can see

Verizon says on their website that they will never be in Kentucky :mad:

-Gary

CycloneGT

01-26-06, 11:20 PM

Verizon likely won't mess with the Bandwidth of their TV channels until IPTV, and even then they may not even decide to screw with it.

vurbano

01-27-06, 07:15 AM

vurbano

01-27-06, 07:19 AM

Can you extract recordings from a Verizon HD DVR????? That is the ONLY factor that might keep me away. No offense but if you can record to PC from FIOS then IMO you would have to be an absolute moron not to sign up for FIOS as soon as it is available.

oktoberrust11

01-27-06, 07:59 AM

Kind of blows out here in Richardson where Still Bilking the Consumer owns the lines...It'll be 2008 or 2009 before we see any semblance of fiber.

Folks on dslreports are saying that project lightspeed is supposed to be here in March or mid 2006, but that probably does not include tv.

Verizon Fios..so near...yet so far.

SBC's Lightspeed is doing some beta testing for internet only now in my area (Detroit area). Guy i spoke with at SBC said it wouldn't be until 2008 that a full offering of voice/video/internet is available. But who knows.

cane99

01-27-06, 08:22 AM

Which city are you moving to? Verizon doesn't cover this whole area. In fact I don't think they serve any part of Dallas itself. Does anyone know otherwise?

my wife and I are thinking the Irving area, if I ready correctly, FIOS is offered in that area. We are traveling in March to start house shopping.

Matt_Stevens

01-27-06, 08:35 AM

Is FiOS offered anywhere in North Carolina?

Rutgar

01-27-06, 09:54 AM

TexasAg1996

01-27-06, 10:10 AM

Do they have an HD Tivo device? I'm currently using D* and have an HD Tivo. That little device alone is enough to make me stay with D*. However, Fios does have a better price point for the same services. But I didn't see any info on their site concerning an HD DVR.

The only DVR offered for Verizon Fios TV is an HD DVR. Verizon doesn't offer an SD DVR. It is not a Tivo unit, though. It is a Motorola box (probably the QIP6416) using Microsoft Foundation TV.

On the downside, it lacks a few features (30-second skip, swapping tuners) that I miss with Tivo. The user interface is a little harder to use, and you can't put a bigger hard drive in it.

On the upside, it supports folders, which the DirecTV HD Tivo unit does not. It also changes channels faster, rather than the unbearably slow channel changing with DirecTV.

Overall, I'd take Fios TV with the Motorola DVR any day given the quality of both SD and HD content.

Rutgar

01-27-06, 10:21 AM

The only DVR offered for Verizon Fios TV is an HD DVR. Verizon doesn't offer an SD DVR. It is not a Tivo unit, though. It is a Motorola box (probably the QIP6416) using Microsoft Foundation TV.

On the downside, it lacks a few features (30-second skip, swapping tuners) that I miss with Tivo. The user interface is a little harder to use, and you can't put a bigger hard drive in it.

On the upside, it supports folders, which the DirecTV HD Tivo unit does not. It also changes channels faster, rather than the unbearably slow channel changing with DirecTV.

Overall, I'd take Fios TV with the Motorola DVR any day given the quality of both SD and HD content.

Okay, thanks for the information. I'm having a new house built, and Verizon and Fios are going to be available. It would be great if I could cut my internet and TV bill down. Currently between phone, internet, and D*, I'm paying about $200.00 a month.

Does the Mototola DVR receive OTA digital signals as well, like the TIVO?

stephenC

01-27-06, 10:58 AM

How does the FIOS pricing compare to cable and DBS services? Higher? Lower? About the same?

biker19

01-27-06, 11:10 AM

Has anyone tried to tune FIOS TV directly without their STB? Are there any unscrambled digital channels?

Dmon4u

01-27-06, 11:18 AM

How does the FIOS pricing compare to cable and DBS services? Higher? Lower? About the same?

I've read far and wide many accounts of people doing price comparisons.

So far, most will save save a little ($10~) to a lot (with Bundles @ around $80~).

The very few who do not are typically those with a multitude (5+) of STB's needed.

fcsmith

01-27-06, 11:29 AM

TexasAg1996

01-27-06, 11:51 AM

Okay, thanks for the information. I'm having a new house built, and Verizon and Fios are going to be available. It would be great if I could cut my internet and TV bill down. Currently between phone, internet, and D*, I'm paying about $200.00 a month.

Does the Mototola DVR receive OTA digital signals as well, like the TIVO?

As far as I know, the DVR cannot receive OTA signals. For me it doesn't matter. I'm pretty far from the HD transmitters. Also, I get all of the local HD stations from Fios TV anyway (and they are crystal clear).

As for pricing, I have phone, Internet, and TV service from Fios now.

For phone, I'm saving roughly $10/month for multiple phone lines.

For Internet, I'm saving $10/month over what I paid for 768k DSL service (and I have the 5/2 package, which is 6-7 times faster).

For TV, I'm saving $5/month over what I paid for DirecTV. But this is slightly misleading for 2 reasons:
(1) I have not yet committed to a year's contract (I am planning on it), and once I do that I believe I can get one standard STB for free (another $4/month savings).
(2) I never had any HD package from DirecTV, which I think costs $10/month. With Fios TV, most of the HD channels (locals, ESPN, USA, TNT, HDNet, etc.) come with the regular package. Plus, this is real HD, not HD-Lite from DirecTV.
So, Fios is actually quite a bit cheaper than DirecTV.

Rutgar

01-27-06, 12:03 PM

As far as I know, the DVR cannot receive OTA signals. For me it doesn't matter. I'm pretty far from the HD transmitters. Also, I get all of the local HD stations from Fios TV anyway (and they are crystal clear).

As for pricing, I have phone, Internet, and TV service from Fios now.

For phone, I'm saving roughly $10/month for multiple phone lines.

For Internet, I'm saving $10/month over what I paid for 768k DSL service (and I have the 5/2 package, which is 6-7 times faster).

For TV, I'm saving $5/month over what I paid for DirecTV. But this is slightly misleading for 2 reasons:
(1) I have not yet committed to a year's contract (I am planning on it), and once I do that I believe I can get one standard STB for free (another $4/month savings).
(2) I never had any HD package from DirecTV, which I think costs $10/month. With Fios TV, most of the HD channels (locals, ESPN, USA, TNT, HDNet, etc.) come with the regular package. Plus, this is real HD, not HD-Lite from DirecTV.
So, Fios is actually quite a bit cheaper than DirecTV.

Okay thanks. It sounds like if you add up those differences, you're probably saving about $35.00/month with everything on Fios (I'm including the $10.00 for HDTV since I'm currently paying for that on D*).

oktoberrust11

01-27-06, 12:37 PM

Does anyone know what SBC's rollout schedule is? I'd love to have an alternative to TWC's ever-increasing prices, but I doubt my area (KC) is high on their priority list for rollout. And even at that I don't know if SBC would be any less expensive initially, but at least there would be some competition.

I don't have info for your area specifically, but this is what I found out on a call to SBC re: Lightspeed in my area.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6979969&&#post6979969

I think your best bet is to call SBC and try and get someone who is knowledgable on the subject. I was surprised to hear that beta internet testing was already going on in my area.

Matt

Renagade

01-27-06, 12:53 PM

SBC's Lightspeed is doing some beta testing for internet only now in my area (Detroit area). Guy i spoke with at SBC said it wouldn't be until 2008 that a full offering of voice/video/internet is available. But who knows.

oktoberrust11, do you have any information about SBC's service. Like channels etc...

Renagade

01-27-06, 12:54 PM

beat me to it...

oktoberrust11

01-27-06, 01:09 PM

oktoberrust11, do you have any information about SBC's service. Like channels etc...

No, and I don't think anyone does, as their video service is not yet offered. I would guess similar to Verizon's service, but that's pure speculation.

dallashd

01-27-06, 02:27 PM

As far as I know, the DVR cannot receive OTA signals. For me it doesn't matter. I'm pretty far from the HD transmitters. Also, I get all of the local HD stations from Fios TV anyway (and they are crystal clear).

As for pricing, I have phone, Internet, and TV service from Fios now.

For phone, I'm saving roughly $10/month for multiple phone lines.

For Internet, I'm saving $10/month over what I paid for 768k DSL service (and I have the 5/2 package, which is 6-7 times faster).

For TV, I'm saving $5/month over what I paid for DirecTV. But this is slightly misleading for 2 reasons:
(1) I have not yet committed to a year's contract (I am planning on it), and once I do that I believe I can get one standard STB for free (another $4/month savings).
(2) I never had any HD package from DirecTV, which I think costs $10/month. With Fios TV, most of the HD channels (locals, ESPN, USA, TNT, HDNet, etc.) come with the regular package. Plus, this is real HD, not HD-Lite from DirecTV.
So, Fios is actually quite a bit cheaper than DirecTV.

TexasAg1996...Where have you read/heard committing to a contract will get you a discount on a STB?

MasterWick

01-27-06, 02:38 PM

if you have access to FiOS and are can get it installed...go for it! You will not be disappointed!

Is it worth it to dump an HDTivo for FIOS? I too live in Carrollton and am debating the benefits and costs of the switch.

What is required to get the FIOS throughout the house, i.e. pre-wiring CAT 5e to the desired rooms? What is the benefit/drawbacks of analog cable through RG5 wiring?

billodom

01-27-06, 02:57 PM

Is it worth it to dump an HDTivo for FIOS? I too live in Carrollton and am debating the benefits and costs of the switch.

What is required to get the FIOS throughout the house, i.e. pre-wiring CAT 5e to the desired rooms? What is the benefit/drawbacks of analog cable through RG5 wiring?

Let me jump in and say that each individual's situation will be different. Bottom line, it is a no-brainer. I just had FiOS TV installed Tuesday, the 24th, and am still rediscovering the lost quality of standard definition that D* had so watered down over the years. I am just stunned that it is that much better on FiOS. I would venture to guess that that is also the case with any top-notch digital cable system. The big difference theoretically with FiOS is their potential bandwidth. I have had FiOS Internet since last June and have never had an outage.

I would recommend that you dump D* and put your HD TiVo on EBay. I am watching on a 46-inch Samsung DLP third-generation chip. The bigger and better your display, the more noticeable the difference will be. The improved HD quality is incremental to me and icing on the cake. Look at all the extra HD channels you will get with FiOS. Make sure you have the data and the video installed at the same time. Verizon will set it up for you using a combination of your existing RG6 cabling and Cat5 wiring. Do it now, my friend! Tell D* and their overcompressed SD garbage to hit the road.

jagouar

01-27-06, 03:11 PM

Let me jump in and say that each individual's situation will be different. Bottom line, it is a no-brainer. I just had FiOS TV installed Tuesday, the 24th, and am still rediscovering the lost quality of standard definition that D* had so watered down over the years. I am just stunned that it is that much better on FiOS. I would venture to guess that that is also the case with any top-notch digital cable system. The big difference theoretically with FiOS is their potential bandwidth. I have had FiOS Internet since last June and have never had an outage.

Related to this our local AVS group had a comparison party between MPEG4 D* and Cox. And the HD stuff was actually pretty close (but we did really only compare fox and cbs football games on the networks and they were pretty close) but whne comparing analog cable to SD "digital" there was a huge difference. It was like taking a a few sheets of wax paper off the screen (all the comparisons were done on a 106 inch pany AE700 projector).

TexasAg1996

01-27-06, 04:09 PM

TexasAg1996...Where have you read/heard committing to a contract will get you a discount on a STB?

I read it here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15274851?hilite=fios+tv+commitment

I just called and talked to the Encore group at Verizon. According to the lady I talked to, you only get 1 discount. I already am getting $5/month off because I have phone and Internet service with them, so I didn't qualify for the 2nd discount of a free STB.

What is required to get the FIOS throughout the house, i.e. pre-wiring CAT 5e to the desired rooms? What is the benefit/drawbacks of analog cable through RG5 wiring?

For Internet service, Verizon needs to run a Cat5e cable from an ONT (a box outside of your house) to a router by your computer. They usually run the cable outside along the eaves of your house. They may or may not fish the cable up a wall into your attic, so you may want to do that yourself.

For TV service, you'll need a single coax cable by your TVs so they can plug into STBs (assuming you want more than just basic local channels, which I think are available without a STB). You'll most likely also need a spot where they can plug a NIM device into both a coax cable and an Ethernet cable. Most NIMs get plugged directly into the Verizon router by your computer, although an indirect connection to the Verizon router is all that is required. Basically, you need a spot where the NIM has access to both a coax cable and a network connection.

MasterWick

01-27-06, 04:38 PM

plug a NIM device into both a coax cable and an Ethernet cable

What is a NIM device?

If I have this straight based upon my home setup all I will need to do is run a CAT 5 cable to my router. What I have is a Cable modem by my computer. So I currently have a coax running from outside to my cable modem. For the TVs, I have 2 coaxes running to each TV (DVR for bedroom and main TV). I figure these coax lines could be spliced and diced to run to the appropriate place. I am very picky about how they run lines in my attic and generally end up doing it myself. So its not a big deal to personally run Cat 5 from the outside to my cable modem location.

Has anyone figured out how to get a 30sec skip button? This may be a deal killer for myself (wife actually). If she doesn't have the 30sec skip, she gets frustrated.

Also, I read somewhere of the possibility to offload programs to a server (desktop server). Is this actually the case?

What about HDD expansion? Is it possible to hook up and external firewire HDD and utilize as an existing drive?

lovswr

01-27-06, 04:45 PM

Kind of blows out here in Richardson where Still Bilking the Consumer owns the lines...It'll be 2008 or 2009 before we see any semblance of fiber.

Folks on dslreports are saying that project lightspeed is supposed to be here in March or mid 2006, but that probably does not include tv.

Verizon Fios..so near...yet so far.

Well at least you have some semblance of hope. Down here in Atlanta, 'Ole Duanne thinks that "fiber" only comes in boxes of Total :(... MAN THIS SUCKS!

TexasAg1996

01-27-06, 04:50 PM

What is a NIM device?

If I have this straight based upon my home setup all I will need to do is run a CAT 5 cable to my router. What I have is a Cable modem by my computer. So I currently have a coax running from outside to my cable modem. For the TVs, I have 2 coaxes running to each TV (DVR for bedroom and main TV). I figure these coax lines could be spliced and diced to run to the appropriate place. I am very picky about how they run lines in my attic and generally end up doing it myself. So its not a big deal to personally run Cat 5 from the outside to my cable modem location.

Has anyone figured out how to get a 30sec skip button? This may be a deal killer for myself (wife actually). If she doesn't have the 30sec skip, she gets frustrated.

Also, I read somewhere of the possibility to offload programs to a server (desktop server). Is this actually the case?

What about HDD expansion? Is it possible to hook up and external firewire HDD and utilize as an existing drive?

I *think* the NIM is a device that allows the STBs to communicate upstream to the central office when you request stuff like Video on Demand. I don't think the STBs are capable of direct two-way communication with the central office, so they talk to the NIM over the coax cables and the NIM talks to the central office. Someone else could probably explain it better than I could. The NIM is required to get TV service. I have heard that some of the ONTs (the boxes outside) are starting to have NIMs integrated into them, but at this point I don't know if they are available.

Based on what you describe, you are correct - you will only need the Cat5e cable from the spot where the ONT will be to the router by your computer.

The DVR probably will not have a 30-second skip feature. I have the QIP6416 box, which doesn't support it. On the upside, I find the fast-forward to be easier to use on it than on my Tivo, so it doesn't bother me so much. It did initially, but I'm used to it already.

The QIP6416 box has a firewire port, which I have heard allows you to capture stuff on unencrypted local HD stations. I've read that national HD stations are 5c encrypted and can be downloaded but not watched (since they can't be decrypted). Again, someone else could probably explain this better or confirm it. I've never tried it myself.

You can't add an external HDD to the unit. The 160GB internal HDD is it. OK so far with me, but I've only had it a week and can't say how quickly it will fill up.

Edit - Let me add this to the external HDD part. I have heard that Verizon plans on activating the Moca networking feature of the boxes in Q2 of 2006. The Moca networking allows the boxes to talk and transfer programming over the coax cables of your house. So, if you have 2 DVRs in 2 rooms, they should (in theory) be able to talk to each other, and you should be able to play recordings from either box on either TV. That would give you 320GB of space. Of course, this is all theory right now since I haven't seen confirmation that the Moca networking feature will be activated.

danco

01-27-06, 04:57 PM

I have a feeling that SBC will wire us up about the time that DirecTV 20 launches. By then, I won't need to consider it.
SBC is too busy with mergers to actually do anything like provide services to customers. We still have areas in Reno that won't be getting DSL for years...

It's all about bonuses for management.

We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company.
—Lily Tomlin
as Ernestine the Operator

~Dan

MasterWick

01-27-06, 04:57 PM

TexasAg1996: Thanks for the quick replys. I will see if this new toy can be sold to the wife ;-)

TexasAg1996

01-27-06, 05:07 PM

TexasAg1996: Thanks for the quick replys. I will see if this new toy can be sold to the wife ;-)

We were thrilled with the quality of both SD and HD (and SD looked better than SD on DirecTV). I had put DirecTV on standby just in case, but it gets cancelled Monday morning.

About three months ago, I got an HD10-250 (DirecTV HD DVR) before I found out about Fios TV. I had to return it when I found out it didn't support folders. With kids and lots of 1/2 hour recordings of different cartoons, there was no way we wanted to scroll through 40 different screens to find a particular show to watch.

Good luck. If it works and you switch, you won't be sorry.

biker19

01-27-06, 05:21 PM

Does Verizon charge for the FIOS TV installation? My FIOS internet install was free.

TexasAg1996

01-27-06, 05:24 PM

Does Verizon charge for the FIOS TV installation? My FIOS internet install was free.

Mine was free.

AMorrison

01-27-06, 07:54 PM

my wife and I are thinking the Irving area, if I ready correctly, FIOS is offered in that area. We are traveling in March to start house shopping.

Irving is in the Verizon service area. If I were you I'd plug the address of any house you were considering into the spot on their web site where they verify service availability. I know two people in Keller (which was the FIOS pilot city) who live in SBC territory. They're not very happy!

cane99

01-27-06, 08:36 PM

Irving is in the Verizon service area. If I were you I'd plug the address of any house you were considering into the spot on their web site where they verify service availability. I know two people in Keller (which was the FIOS pilot city) who live in SBC territory. They're not very happy!

We were thinking Valley Ranch area, I did what you suggested and none of the addresses are working. I am extemely dissapointed. I really don't want to go with Comcast.

RScottyL

01-27-06, 09:20 PM

cane99

01-27-06, 09:45 PM

RScott, if you don't mind me asking, what part of Irving are you in? Do you know if the Valley Ranch area is SBC or Verizon?

Verizon FIOS was one of the things I was really looking forward to, where we live in FL now we have a horrible cable company, COX, and just like Comcast they take forever to add a new channel.

billodom

01-27-06, 09:45 PM

I was the first install in Irving, TX and have loved it. I changed to FIOS TV from Comcast.

I am waiting for the addition of more HD channels. From what I understand, we are getting National Geographic Channel HD this month. I also thought we were supposed to get MHD (MTV HD), but have not seen it yet.

Pardon me, Scotty, but I assume the "we" you are referring to in your statement is all FiOS TV subscribers nationwide. Up here in Virginia, "we" are still waiting for Verizon to add HDNet. I'll trade NGC HD and MTV HD for access to HDNet anytime. While we are on it, anyone care to opine why we would not have access to HDNet while we are getting HDNet Movies?

digital_dilemma

01-28-06, 12:46 PM

I've requested a Sticky for Fios discussion since there are numerous discussions all over the place and it's difficult to go through, locate, read through and respond. If anyone else feels the same way, Alan Gouger says that Ken H is the man/mod to make the decision. Send him a PM requesting, or maybe he'll just respond to this? :rolleyes:

I just had Fios Internet and TV installed on Thursday. I want write more on the install and service, but I'm in the middle of remodeling, so haven't had time to sit and collect my thoughts. All I can say at this time is what Jim Carey said in Bruce Almighty,

"B - E - A - YOOTIFUL!"

SD is, well, still SD, but colors are vibrant, edges are as crisp and solid as SD digital can be. I dumped D* to get this and the quality of the HD image on Fios compared to D* is like the difference between your car going four or five weeks without a carwash and how it looks after it's washed and waxed. ;) It's still the same car, just... better!

digital_dilemma

01-28-06, 12:54 PM

"Tranquility Base here. The Fios has landed!." :D

This service is sweet!

Dmon4u

01-28-06, 01:21 PM

Sales in my area for DBS must be dropping since last Summer. Before, driving through town always seemed to show more Dishes going up. I saw the last new one a week ago and had not seen one in months.

Our FiOS internet service has been here since September and the little front lawn FiOS Green and blechy colored signs have been popping up more and more. The only people who take them down are the ones who can't stand the colors.

But, here in the Hershey/Hummelstown area of PA we were told we'd be the first in PA to get FiOS TV. It's been so long now that it gets a little more depressing every couple of weeks as new areas around the country are added. Pretty soon, we will be nearly surrounded state-wise by NY, NJ & MD - not to mention DE (nobody ever does).

I, too, would like to find any info on the schedule of rollouts !

billodom

01-28-06, 01:52 PM

But, here in the Hershey/Hummelstown area of PA we were told we'd be the first in PA to get FiOS TV. It's been so long now that it gets a little more depressing every couple of weeks as new areas around the country are added. Pretty soon, we will be nearly surrounded state-wise by NY, NJ & MD - not to mention DE (nobody ever does).

I, too, would like to find any info on the schedule of rollouts !

I didn't google this, but what is the status of Verizon's video franchise application in the Hershey/Hummelstown area of PA? Here in Fairfax County, Verizon's application was approved by our county board the end of September. If Verizon is having trouble negotiating a deal with your area, it could stall the process. I would start making inquiries to find out what the deal is. Incidentally there is now a bill in the Virginia state legislature to grant statewide video rights to increase competition. Eventually the Feds should enact something.

HDntheCity

01-28-06, 02:04 PM

Pardon me, Scotty, but I assume the "we" you are referring to in your statement is all FiOS TV subscribers nationwide. Up here in Virginia, "we" are still waiting for Verizon to add HDNet. I'll trade NGC HD and MTV HD for access to HDNet anytime. While we are on it, anyone care to opine why we would not have access to HDNet while we are getting HDNet Movies?

i've wondered about that myself bill. i've never seen a provider offer the one without the other. HDnet IS listed on the main channel list webpage(tho not on the Faifax Co. local pdf. listings). Trio is also listed but i seem to remember NBC-Universal ceased operations for that ch. about a month ago.
bill have you tried inputing ch. 817(FiOS HDnet listing). what happens if you do(or did)?

jim

billodom

01-28-06, 04:25 PM

I've requested a Sticky for Fios discussion since there are numerous discussions all over the place and it's difficult to go through, locate, read through and respond. If anyone else feels the same way, Alan Gouger says that Ken H is the man/mod to make the decision. Send him a PM requesting, or maybe he'll just respond to this? :rolleyes:

One of the problems is that the service cuts across several different forums here--Programming, Local, Reception Hardware and Recorders. I think the best way to go--and I am sure that Ken H will at least look at this thread--is to merge all the threads pertaining to FiOS now contained in that subject area into one thread, and then make that combined thread a sticky at the top of each of those subject areas. Well, on reflection, I guess that wouldn't work in the Local forum. But at least in those three areas--Programming, Reception Hardware and Recorders. I nominate this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590208) for the Programming sticky.

billodom

01-28-06, 04:59 PM

i've wondered about that myself bill. i've never seen a provider offer the one without the other. HDnet IS listed on the main channel list webpage(tho not on the Faifax Co. local pdf. listings). Trio is also listed but i seem to remember NBC-Universal ceased operations for that ch. about a month ago.
Sleuth replaced Trio. Here's the announcement (http://www.nbccableinfo.com/insidenbccable/nbcuniversal/inthenews_110205.html) by NBC Universal.
have you tried inputing ch. 817(FiOS HDnet listing). what happens if you do(or did)?
No dice. Nothing but "???"
Incidentally, the pdf of the Fairfax County listings is not up to date. Just in the last several days they have added channels 61 (ESPN Classic), 63 (ESPNU) and 65 (Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic).
This just in: I just received an email from Mark Cuban saying that we SHOULD have both and that they (I assume HDNet and Verizon) are working out a few details on blackout coverage. And then the most reassuring part of his reply: "I will follow up for you." After getting the service and realizing that HDNet was not a part of our package, I wrote Mark last Wednesday (1/25) and asked for his help. I didn't hear anything so figured I would try contacting him through the Dallas Mavs website. How's that for action? :cool: Hey, I'm just a regular Joe and this guy responds by return email? That just blows me away.
In conclusion, I think Verizon is probably erring on the side of caution. I have officially been told by Verizon re provision of HDNet "sometime later in 2006." Undoubtedly Mark's reference to the "blackout coverage" refers to HDNet's contract with the NHL. This is Washington Capitals home territory and the Caps games on HDNet are blacked out here. The same situation would prevail down in Florida with the Tampa Bay Lightning. Verizon is also telling folks down there "sometime in 2006." The one market that does currently have
HDNet--Dallas--would be immune from blackouts because HDNet could show them locally. Maybe I'm misapplying the rule vis-a-vis the Dallas situation. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. All in all, sounds like we should be getting HDNet sooner rather than later.

biker19

01-28-06, 05:44 PM

Is a TV with CableCard compatible with FIOS - can you use it instead of the STB?

bfoster

01-28-06, 06:17 PM

As a franchised cable provider I don't see how they could avoid supporting the cablecard.

fourthstooge

01-28-06, 10:37 PM

LonghornXP

01-28-06, 11:27 PM

I just came from the Verizon website, where I signed up for an email alert when FIOS-TV becomes available in my area. While I was there, I was browsing through their programming packages and it wasn't clear to me whether the HD feeds of the movie channels were included in the movie packages. Anyone know?

If you order the HBO Pak for 14.95/month you will get HBO HD and HBO On Demand.
If you order the Cinemax Pak for 14.95/month you will get Cinemax HD and Cinemax On Demand.

If you get the HBO/Cinemax Pak for 24.95/month you will get both HBO HD and Cinemax HD along with both HBO On Demand and Cinemax On Demand.

If you order the Movie Pak for 11.95/month you will get the following channels below.
Showtime HD, The Movie Channel HD and Starz HD. You will also get Showtime On Demand, The Movie Channel On Demand, Encore On Demand and Starz On Demand.

If you get the Sports Pak you would also get NFL Network HD but you need the Sports Pak to get that specific channel.

Expanded basic gets you all other national HD channels such as ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, HDNet, TNT HD, Universal HD, Discovery HD, Wealth HD, NGC HD, MTV HD, Food Network HD, HGTV HD among others. Expanded Basic also gets you your local channels HD feeds as well.

I hope this gives you the information you wanted.

billodom

01-29-06, 12:29 AM

...Expanded basic gets you all other national HD channels such as ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, HDNet, TNT HD, Universal HD, Discovery HD, Wealth HD, NGC HD, MTV HD, Food Network HD, HGTV HD among others.
Longhorn, I really appreciate all the good inside info you provide here and on DSL Reports, but just to be totally accurate, Fairfax County FiOS subscribers are currently not receiving HDNet. We are receiving HDNet Movies. Mark Cuban himself is following up on it and hopefully we will have HDNet in the very near future. Apparently there is some hangup on the blackout coverage regarding HDNet's contract with the NHL. Maybe even their contract to cover MLS although I haven't heard or seen or read anything official about that yet. Maybe you could ask around about that issue, also, because I understand the Tampa area is not yet getting HDNet, either. Of course the Lightning are in the NHL, too.

Expanded Basic also gets you your local channels HD feeds as well.Once again not exactly correct, at least so far here in Fairfax County. We are not yet getting Maryland Public Television's HD feed. It's a bit of a screwy situation since their HD feed is not on their main subchannel but instead is on their .2 subchannel. If you could inquire about that, I would appreciate it. I've been in contact with Verizon FiOS techs daily about these issues since I had my service installed last Tuesday, the 24th. They're probably tired of hearing from me. I just want this service to deliver its full potential. Verizon could actually put Cox Cable out of business here in Fairfax County if they market this right.

Dmon4u

01-29-06, 02:02 AM

They were to vote on the Franchise agreement the beginning of September and then changed it to the end. It was said by some of the town officials that they wanted to see how everything went since Verizon just started offering the Internet only FiOS in the beginning of the month. After that, there's been no word from anyone about the vote.

What I suspect is that the Patriot News in Harrisburg finally picked up on the story and, suddenly, Verizon announced afterward that they were expanding their Fiber building towards Harrisburg, the Capital. Originally, the plan was to begin in Hummelstown and then expand eastward through Hershey and then Palmyra. Hummelstown would have been the TV testbed, then TV service was to start in full when all three were wired with Fiber.

All work suddenly stoped at the eastern edge of Hummelstown and a veritable explosion of work began in the newly announced areas. Only within the last couple of days, now, have Verizon trucks started to show up in Hershey - about a 4 month delay at least.

My guess is that some political pressure was put on Verizon to march towards Pennsylvania's Capital and now it's been decided to not offer TV until they can get the whole area ready.

Rick Adams

01-29-06, 02:07 AM

Well, after two weeks of fighting Verizon, finally watching FIOS-TV right now. The latest comedy of errors was when I managed to get the problem where they were refusing to allow me to set up an install because of "franchise issues" resolved. Got someone fairly high up, and he resolved it extremely quickly. Couple hours later on Wednesday, I get a phone call asking "Is this Saturday okay for you to be available for a FIOS-TV install?"

Then on Friday someone called and said they needed a "video light hub check" for my install tomorrow, and transferred me to someone else. That person said that my install wasn't until the 11th of Feb. In the process of trying to figure out what the heck was going on, I was then told that Verizon does not do video installs on Saturdays. Despite the fact that my original install, before it was canceled, was for last Saturday, then for this Saturday and the install date in their computers was a Saturday. Spoke with the same person that resolved the original issue, and a few minutes later I had an install for earlier today.

Install took about 8 hours. All the cables were lying right in front of where the boxes were going, so it should have been one of the quickest installs they could do. Then two of the boxes were bad. It took several hours for them to figure that out. The guy had an extra in his truck, and that took about two hours of resetting before it would recognize the digital channels. Then he had to wait an hour for another tech that had another box in his truck to come by. All in all, definitely evidence that they still have a lot of kinks to work out. When two out of three boxes are bad, and then a replacement box takes two hours of constant resetting to get to work...

But after watching it for a few minutes, it's obvious all the effort to just get an install was well worth it. Going from D* to this, the video quality is amazing. Just for SD alone, FIOS makes D* look like the really, really low quality Internet streaming video that it is. HD is beautiful, and I'm getting almost twice as many HD channels as I was with D*. Only complaint is the only HD channel I watch with regularity, HDNet, is MIA.

I do miss the Tivo interface already though. Given D* ended their partnership with Tivo quite a while ago, it really doesn't matter. But going from my old DTivo to the Microsoft interface definitely makes one realize just how innovative and well-designed Tivo's menus and whatnot are. But that's a small price to pay for this stunning PQ and not having to worry that my provider will stop adding HD channels because they don't have anymore room.

The install tech actually mentioned that right now, over a 6mhz channel 12 SD channels can be fit on each one. Verizon is limiting that to 5 SD channels, obviously meaning that they have already set aside ALL of their bandwidth envisioning the day that every channel is HD. If that isn't proof enough of just how superior FIOS is to their competitors, I don't know what is.

Mikeoz

01-29-06, 02:16 AM

Verizon could actually put Cox Cable out of business here in Fairfax County if they market this right.

Before even considering this I believe Verizon needs to get this rolled out throughout fairfax county first. :P Most of Northern Va. still doesn't have fios tv available unfortunately. I've had fios internet since late spring/early summer in mclean, and am eagerly awaiting fios tv. I never even bothered signing up for directv's hd package since it has such few channels, and cox is/was so overpriced. At this point I'd be happy just to have fios tv service. Directv's PQ on SD really looks horrible, although at least I have OTA to tide me over till fios finally rolls out here...

EDIT: Woohoo!! LOL I just tried verizon's website and it says it's available now in my area! Ironic how I just said it wasn't available and it must've just been added in the last few days. I guess I'll be signing up on Monday! Goodbye Directv!!! :D

biker19

01-29-06, 07:59 AM

Verizon must be making good progress or most of their reps don't know what they're talking about since all of them said early March for availability and like Mikeoz above it's finally available on my street (it was not 2 days ago).

The web site says they'll waive the install fee for the first 3 existing outlets - what does that mean?

nhey

01-29-06, 09:55 AM

nhey

01-29-06, 09:57 AM

Does anyone know what's happening in New Jersey? I know V pulled the statewide bill and was supposed to reintroduce it, and I also know they have started to apply to a few local municipalities directly.

I WANT FIOS TV ASAP!!!

HDntheCity

01-29-06, 04:00 PM

Sleuth replaced Trio. Here's the announcement (http://www.nbccableinfo.com/insidenbccable/nbcuniversal/inthenews_110205.html) by NBC Universal.

No dice. Nothing but "???"
Incidentally, the pdf of the Fairfax County listings is not up to date. Just in the last several days they have added channels 61 (ESPN Classic), 63 (ESPNU) and 65 (Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic).
This just in: I just received an email from Mark Cuban saying that we SHOULD have both and that they (I assume HDNet and Verizon) are working out a few details on blackout coverage. And then the most reassuring part of his reply: "I will follow up for you." After getting the service and realizing that HDNet was not a part of our package, I wrote Mark last Wednesday (1/25) and asked for his help. I didn't hear anything so figured I would try contacting him through the Dallas Mavs website. How's that for action? :cool: Hey, I'm just a regular Joe and this guy responds by return email? That just blows me away.
In conclusion, I think Verizon is probably erring on the side of caution. I have officially been told by Verizon re provision of HDNet "sometime later in 2006." Undoubtedly Mark's reference to the "blackout coverage" refers to HDNet's contract with the NHL. This is Washington Capitals home territory and the Caps games on HDNet are blacked out here. The same situation would prevail down in Florida with the Tampa Bay Lightning. Verizon is also telling folks down there "sometime in 2006." The one market that does currently have
HDNet--Dallas--would be immune from blackouts because HDNet could show them locally. Maybe I'm misapplying the rule vis-a-vis the Dallas situation. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. All in all, sounds like we should be getting HDNet sooner rather than later.

bill that's great!!! i read an interview with Mark Cuban in S&V mag. and he's a very hands-on businessman-and by his own admission does EVERYTHING by e-mail. you picked the perfect medium to contact him.
i think you're right-blackout issues. i recall that Rangers games on HDnet have been blackedout here in the past. i don't understand why Vz is having issues with this & not other providers but it looks like it'll be resolved soon.
good sign they've added CSN-Mid-Atlantic. now they need to get the HD ch.
continue to enjoy your FiOS TV!!!!!

jim

LonghornXP

01-29-06, 04:32 PM

Okay I've asked a few people and finally got some answers. Oh Billodom about your local channels I didn't intend to say that you would get them all but was more saying that what you do have access to will be no extra charge. For example in the Tampa market Verizon offers PBS HD, NBC HD, ABC HD, CBS HD, FOX HD and WB HD. They don't offer UPN HD but they will soon from what I hear. Also what is funny is that our local WB station doesn't even offer a decent full power digital feed OTA and they are owned by Sinclair but they have a deal with Verizon for their HD feed. If only BHN would add that WB station now.

Now onto the HDNet issue and the answer to this is indeed blackout issues as the hardware and computer systems Verizon bought for these purposes just doesn't seem to work very well. They are keeping HDNet off the system until they can get an automated system to handle those blackouts. Because this only needs to be done with certain games they would rather not have a tech having to hit a switch because if that doesn't get done after the game ends than it will stay blacked out until they catch it. They also need this in place for other sports related channels such as ESPN among others as some sporting events have deals with a local channel so if they are shown on ESPN for example the ESPN must be blacked out for those games. This is rare but the system must be in place and be used or getting these programming agreements might be a tad bit harder if you catch my drift. The bright side of this is that the system doesn't need to be as complex as the blackouts are done locally on local systems whereas DirecTV and Dish must have more complex systems that can do this via zip codes for tons and tons of games because nothing is local as its a national satellite signal.

To finish this off the last I've heard is to expect HDNet to be offered in "all" markets that have FIOS TV service available now and in the future starting around March if not earlier.

digital_dilemma

01-29-06, 04:36 PM

Expanded basic gets you all other national HD channels such as ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, HDNet, TNT HD, Universal HD, Discovery HD, Wealth HD, NGC HD, MTV HD, Food Network HD, HGTV HD among others. Expanded Basic also gets you your local channels HD feeds as well.

I hope this gives you the information you wanted.

I just picked up Fios TV here in Flower Mound. Not seeing NCG, MTV, Food, HGTV feeds in HD. Where are you seeing these? What channels?

bfoster

01-29-06, 04:43 PM

They don't appear on the Verizon line-up card either.

810-TNT HDTV

811-ESPN HDTV

812-ESPN 2 HDTV

814-NFL Network HDTV

817-HD Net

818-HD Net Movies

819-Universal HDTV

820-Discovery HDTV

821-Wealth TV HD

billodom

01-29-06, 05:32 PM

...the last I've heard is to expect HDNet to be offered in "all" markets that have FIOS TV service available now and in the future starting around March if not earlier.

Thanks for the info, 'XP, and that helpful explanation about the blackout situation. Based on your knowledge, I have deleted my signature asking subscribers to call Verizon and ask for HDNet. As a matter of fact, I am adopting a "glass half full" stance in looking at the current lineup. As I said in a previous post, I really am walking around pinching myself to make sure I'm not dreaming. I find myself surfing through all the channels and marveling at how watchable the SD is. It really is that good. If this is the future of content providers, it looks very bright.

I do miss seeing Katie Daryl's pretty face on HDNet, however ;).

I just picked up Fios TV here in Flower Mound. Not seeing NCG, MTV, Food, HGTV feeds in HD. Where are you seeing these? What channels?
I viewed LonghornXP's comments as being prophetic in nature, that is, looking beyond the present to a future reality.

Ken H

01-29-06, 06:00 PM

But at least in those three areas--Programming, Reception Hardware and Recorders. I nominate this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590208) for the Programming sticky.

I've merged the two main topics in the HDTV Programming forum, into this one. Let me know if there are others that should also be merged.

Topics in HDTV Locals will remain unaffected.

Is there an HDTV recorder available for FiOS service?

bfoster

01-29-06, 06:20 PM

Ken,

Verizon is using the Motorola QIP6416 HD-DVR.

Ken H

01-29-06, 06:32 PM

Ken,

Verizon is using the Motorola QIP6416 HD-DVR.
Thanks. I'll see what topics exist in the Recorders forum, and combine and stick.

Ken H

01-29-06, 06:34 PM

FiOS Master Hardware & Install Topic

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=621323

Ken H

01-29-06, 06:40 PM

FiOS Master 6416 DVR topic

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=617635

Ken Ross

01-29-06, 06:42 PM

The install tech actually mentioned that right now, over a 6mhz channel 12 SD channels can be fit on each one. Verizon is limiting that to 5 SD channels, obviously meaning that they have already set aside ALL of their bandwidth envisioning the day that every channel is HD. If that isn't proof enough of just how superior FIOS is to their competitors, I don't know what is.

And THAT'S what we don't get, and more than likely never will, from D*. Bring it on FIOS!!! :)

Ken H

01-29-06, 07:38 PM

It would be appreciated if members listed the HD programming available in their area.

Ken H

01-29-06, 08:05 PM

A couple of older FiOS topics have been merged.

digital_dilemma

01-30-06, 12:00 AM

It would be appreciated if members listed the HD programming available in their area.

North Texas (DFW area) receives the following:

Locals (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, UPN, WB, station KDFI)

TNT-HD

ESPN-HD

ESPN2-HD

NFLNet-HD

HDNet-HD

HDNet Movies-HD

Universal-HD

Discovery-HD

Wealth-HD

HBO-HD

Cinemax-HD

Showtime-HD

The Movie Channel-HD

Starz-HD

local NBC affiliate 24 hour news/weather/radar digital

So, that's 23 total being carried at this time, although I can get OTA already anyway.

However, on that topic, the service techs (who BTW were great guys) said that I cannot combine the OTA signal from the antenna on the same coax and that I'd have to run another cable if I wanted that, plus have a separate tuner box or an onboard built-in tuner for OTA. Also, the signal that travels through the Fios runs at such a high bandwidth that ordinary cable splitters get fried and literally melt. Ouch!

digital_dilemma

01-30-06, 12:05 AM

I've merged the two main topics in the HDTV Programming forum, into this one. Let me know if there are others that should also be merged.

Topics in HDTV Locals will remain unaffected.

Is there an HDTV recorder available for FiOS service?

Thanks, Ken. This should make it easier for us to spread the gospel. I hope I can help others in areas where Verizon is struggling to get franchise agreements by providing some detailed information on how great this service is. The officials who are thinking "it's just another service" need to know that it's not. It's MUCH better than the same thing. :)

Marcus Carr

01-30-06, 12:18 AM

I can't even get FIOS internet yet, let alone TV. It's only available in one Maryland county so far but they are just getting started. So I'll try to be patient.

Nice how they are able to add these HD channels even though they don't have an HD tier, unlike a certain major cable company.

Rick Adams

01-30-06, 01:58 AM

Please explain the last paragraph of your post above - I'm not sure I follow what you mean about V already having set aside all of their bandwidth.

The install tech said that over each 6mhz channel, the industry norm apparently is that you can fit 12 standard def, digital channels on each one. However, instead of doing that, they are only allocating 5 standard def, digital channels.

Now while he didn't say as such, the only reason I could imagine that they'd do something that drastic, using only 5/12 of the available space on each 6mhz channel is because they are "saving" room for the day when HD channels are the norm. Instead of using every last inch of their available bandwidth and getting as much SD as they can on each 6mhz channel, then doing what some other providers have done and say "Hey, what do we do with all this extra bandwidth?" and being SOL when more and more HD channels arose... They are looking ahead and setting all the extra bandwidth aside so that when every channel is in HD, they won't have to downconvert and over-compress the HD to be able to carry everything.

Hopefully that clarified my previous statement.

dsmassy

01-30-06, 07:31 AM

Han anyone in Indiana inquired about Fios tv being available here (Indy area)? Or has anyone read anything regarding that? I have found the website to not be so helpful in this regard.

bfoster

01-30-06, 07:40 AM

Also, the signal that travels through the Fios runs at such a high bandwidth that ordinary cable splitters get fried and literally melt. Ouch!

Horse s$#t! :rolleyes:

The Verizon ONT uses the same 870 MHz that any upgraded cable system uses.

rickypicky

01-30-06, 09:50 AM

Check this one out. IF this is true this is going to be HUGE.

Fios to carry every HD channell available?

I wish I lived in a FIOS area.

http://www.******.com/db23p

Put url and 123 together for the domain name above.

David if I wanted to post it here I would have, but it is copyrighted work. Please stop the double standards.

Scott,

I'm a dumb a$$. Can you be just a little less cryptic with the link?

digital_dilemma

01-30-06, 10:12 AM

Horse s$#t! :rolleyes:

The Verizon ONT uses the same 870 MHz that any upgraded cable system uses.

I think that sums up my initial reaction when he said that, but he refused to connect my OTA antenna into the cable system. I guess I can reintroduce myself and see if it works okay.

digital_dilemma

01-30-06, 10:21 AM

Scott,

I'm a dumb a$$. Can you be just a little less cryptic with the link?

Better PM him on that one since the post goes back to September.

bfoster

01-30-06, 10:23 AM

but he refused to connect my OTA antenna into the cable system.

On this point they were correct, you can't mix CATV and OTA on the same cable, but nothing is going to melt:D

digital_dilemma

01-30-06, 10:28 AM

"FiOS TV, which launched Sept. 22 in Keller, Texas, will carry the broad portfolio of Scripps Networks’ content – HGTV, Food Network, DIY Network, FINE LIVING, Great American Country (GAC) and Shop at Home – as well as video-on-demand programming. FiOS TV also will carry Scripps Networks’ new high-definition networks, HGTV-HD and Food Network-HD, which will be launched in early 2006."

From the following: http://newscenter.verizon.com/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=92910

Mikeoz

01-30-06, 12:57 PM

digital_dilemma

01-30-06, 03:28 PM

Well called them up and unforunately there's about a 2 week wait till I will be getting it installed. :( I guess they are pretty busy doing installs. They don't do weekend installs, correct? Getting off of work will be a pita.

Edit: Well I called them back and unfortunately no weekend installs.. What makes things worse is the install window is 8 hrs, :mad: so I don't know when I'll be able to get this installed. Pretty irritating considering the install shouldn't take more than 2-3 hrs at the very most, since rg6 is already run throughout the house, and I already have fios internet.

You should try not to be too irritated. Adjust your schedule accordingly and just be patient. I have yet to see any complaints that Verizon didn't show up as scheduled, unlike what happens with a lot of D* and cable contractors. These guys are blowing and going, plus Verizon is sending many of them to classes at night, too. It's worth waiting on.

They are providing three windows of four hours each day. 9-1, 1-5 or 5-9 in this area. The install at my place took from 1:30 until 7:30, but I needed the line buried underground, had both internet and TV installed at the same time and they ran into trouble because the cable wiring in my home was a little screwy. There is significantly more to it that connecting your cable.

Mikeoz

01-30-06, 03:47 PM

biker19

01-30-06, 06:09 PM

jfaith

01-30-06, 07:42 PM

I read it here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15274851?hilite=fios+tv+commitment

I just called and talked to the Encore group at Verizon. According to the lady I talked to, you only get 1 discount. I already am getting $5/month off because I have phone and Internet service with them, so I didn't qualify for the 2nd discount of a free STB.

I posted the info in that link. The Encore rep I talked to was very thorough. We discussed all the discounts that were available. The $5/mo. discount for bundling internet is basically included in the $34.95/mo. charge for Expanded Basic. (Otherwise its $39.95/mo.) Then we talked about the discounts for a one-year committment to FiosTV. I have not had the service long enough to receive a bill, but will be surprised if my discounts are not on there.

jfaith

01-30-06, 07:54 PM

You should try not to be too irritated. Adjust your schedule accordingly and just be patient. I have yet to see any complaints that Verizon didn't show up as scheduled, unlike what happens with a lot of D* and cable contractors. These guys are blowing and going, plus Verizon is sending many of them to classes at night, too. It's worth waiting on.

They are providing three windows of four hours each day. 9-1, 1-5 or 5-9 in this area. The install at my place took from 1:30 until 7:30, but I needed the line buried underground, had both internet and TV installed at the same time and they ran into trouble because the cable wiring in my home was a little screwy. There is significantly more to it that connecting your cable.

There are some cases in which installers are not showing up (in DFW area). I know personally of 2 people (one in Ft. Worth, one in Lewisville). There seems to be a problem (not fixed at this time) which causes the billing portion of the order to be entered, but not the work order. Both of these people did not get the automated phone call reminding them of the install date. My order also had this problem, but I called back a couple of times before the install to verify everything. Maybe this info can help save someone the frustration of waiting for the installers to no avail....

digital_dilemma

01-30-06, 10:37 PM

Ya I'm really not mad or anything, I was just hoping I could ditch directv asap. :p

Regarding the install, I could imagine it taking as little as 1 hr and really no more than 2, I already have fios internet. I redid the coax cabling in the house <1 yr ago when we had cable. There is an extra rg6 cable running into the same room as the router which used to be used for a cable modem, so this would make hooking up a NIM a plug and play sort of thing. Hooking up the coax lines to the rooms would be as simple as switching the multiswitch in the attic to a regular splitter. The only other thing would be upgrading the firmware of the router.

Of course everything takes longer than you expect, but the install shouldn't take too long. I certainly have no complaints so far with verizon, and am looking forward to their tv service.

I don't blame you for wanting to dump D*. It was one of the most pleasurable moments I've had (outside the BR :p ) recently letting them know, both in writing and when they called to try and salvage the business, letting them know that I was dropping them because their image suffers and their content was lacking.

When I tell you it will be worth it, I am not BSing. The picture on my set has never looked better. I'm sitting here watching CSI-Miami and my draw dropped when it came on. I had never sen this show look so good. The colors are so richly saturated in everything that it delivers an incredibly satisfying image. It's not like you've cranked up the color setting in your user menu, either. It's as if the signal is being amplified, but without the color bleed and noise usually associated with signal amplification.

Good luck on getting your service, soon. You're going to have some sleepy mornings because you won't be wanting to go to sleep. :D

digital_dilemma

01-30-06, 10:39 PM

There are some cases in which installers are not showing up (in DFW area). I know personally of 2 people (one in Ft. Worth, one in Lewisville). There seems to be a problem (not fixed at this time) which causes the billing portion of the order to be entered, but not the work order. Both of these people did not get the automated phone call reminding them of the install date. My order also had this problem, but I called back a couple of times before the install to verify everything. Maybe this info can help save someone the frustration of waiting for the installers to no avail....

That's sad to hear and I hope it clears up. My guys showed up only 30 minutes into the window and I received both a call confirming my order and a call confirming my installation time. This was last week, so maybe they're getting better?

Ken H

01-30-06, 11:22 PM

This is the programming topic, please take hardware and install issues to the topic in the HDTV Hardware Forum, thanks.

Mikeoz

01-30-06, 11:26 PM

digital_dilemma,

Unfortunately/fortunately depends on how you look at it, I've never had hd through directv. I really don't watch much tv, but I can certainly see myself watching more if I have many hd channels. :) Upto now all my hd comes via OTA, and it looks fantastic. CSI is an amazing looking show w/ the vast array of colors, and the extravagant multi-colored labs. :P About the only show I tune into regularly is football in hd. I'm sure hdnet with movies will be quite nice as well as hgtv and discovery. I look forward to not having to tinker w/ an additional stb and an antenna to receive ota programming, which can be annoying.

One of the biggest things I am looking forward to is having decent looking SD channels again. The food network looks just horrible as well as many other overcompressed channels that it really becomes irritating to watch. Someone else made the comparison, which I think is true. Directv sd channels are <= PQ of analog comcast cable, which is sad. I was watching analog cable at a friend's place on a 37" syntax lcd w/ comcast and it looked surprisingly decent to me. With SD channels via directv on my 32" lcd some channels really do look just bad. I can see why some people might say it's like looking at a whole new tv. Comparing OTA SD broadcasts to directv SD broadcasts back to back shows just how bad directv looks.

Marcus Carr

01-31-06, 10:22 AM

Verizon Hits 21% Video Penetration in Keller

Verizon Communications Inc. has reached 21% penetration for Verizon FiOS TV in Keller, Texas, four months after launch, the company said.

“We are seeing great initial acceptance by customers,” chief financial officer Doreen Tobin said, adding, “we’re very pleased with initial sales” in the other new markets where FiOS has launched.

The company added 613,000 digital-subscriber-line customers, but it did not break out FiOS data customers. Tobin said FiOS data penetration has reached 9% in markets where it has been launched for six months and 14% in markets where it’s been launched for nine months. She added that about 35% of its FiOS data subscribers are converts from its DSL service.

Verizon said it added 50,000 DirecTV Inc. direct-broadcast satellite subscribers during the quarter to end the year at 350,000.

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=nocclamp&doc_id=1340006480

digital_dilemma

01-31-06, 12:58 PM

I'm having a Super Bowl party and can't wait to show off the Fios quality and programming to everybody. Should help the market penetration in Flower Mound.

YoungC55

01-31-06, 01:51 PM

Verizon Hits 21% Video Penetration in Keller

Verizon said it added 50,000 DirecTV Inc. direct-broadcast satellite subscribers during the quarter to end the year at 350,000.

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=nocclamp&doc_id=1340006480

Eh, make that 51,001 :p
Darn DirecTV. your messing up.. i wonder how much 50k subs at DirecTV cost..
$100x50k/month?

Well as soon as one provider gets all the HD channels i want, i will switch.
Nobody has the channel lineup that "I" want right now. Pretty weird..

bfoster

01-31-06, 01:59 PM

Eh, make that 51,001 :p
Darn DirecTV. your messing up.. i wonder how much 50k subs at DirecTV cost..
$100x50k/month?

Well as soon as one provider gets all the HD channels i want, i will switch.
Nobody has the channel lineup that "I" want right now. Pretty weird..

Those are subs that ARE getting D* through marketing agreements with Verizon....

YoungC55

01-31-06, 02:13 PM

ohhh ok. whoops

BTDT

01-31-06, 02:40 PM

I'm having a Super Bowl party and can't wait to show off the Fios quality and programming to everybody. Should help the market penetration in Flower Mound.
You are certainly happy with your service digital. I was wondering how you received HD content prior to this? My experience with FiOS TV so far is:

1. SD channels are no worse than D*. Some are clearly better while others continue to show a lot of compression. In particular, the non-HD locals fall far short from the "pristine NTSC" picture you can get on the upconverted HD version of the same channel.

2. HD nationals are significantly better than what D* is providing. I am astonished at the quality of HDNet, DiscoveryHD, and my nice new TNT HD.

3. HD locals are better than D* New York HD feeds, but perhaps a bit duller than the OTA equivalents. In swapping back and forth between my FiOS picture and an OTA picture of the same broadcast through my HD-TiVo it was clear that the FiOS feed was both darker and a bit grainier.

Net net: FiOS for SD appears to have a slight edge over D*. FiOS for HD is clearly superior. FiOS HD vs OTA HD is a bit behind.

Ken Ross

01-31-06, 02:53 PM

Hmm, the first somewhat negative report...particularly #3. Anyone else do an A/B between OTA and the HD local feed on Verizon? I surely hope that Verizon isn't messing with the signal already....it certainly seemed they weren't from all the other reports.

thebishman

01-31-06, 05:20 PM

I agree with you Ken in that it seems strange that FIOS HD would be of a decreased 'quality' than the OTA broadcast for two reasons: one, the FIOS might well be a direct fibre link from the station to Verizon, and two, there should be no degradation of the signal if one of the locals is employing 'simulcasting' OTA and once again the uplink to Verizon is via fibre from the station.
Interested in hearing from others about this.
Bish

P.S. Envy doesn't describe how I feel about those of you able to get this Verizon FIOS. I'm in an SBC/ATT area and I'm not liking one bit what I'm hearing about the SBC/ATT system only being able to deliver enough 'bandwidth' for one HD and three/four SD channels at any given time. This alone will stop me from dumping D and switching to SBC/ATT, as at any one time my three HDTVs could all be displaying differing HD content.

BTDT

01-31-06, 06:33 PM

#3 is an area where I intend to do some further investigation. In a flip-back-and-forth comparison of both true HD and upconverted NTSC broadcasts the OTA picture appears brighter and somewhat more clear. It is possible, however, that this is a function of the QIP6416's HDMI support vs. the HD-TiVo rather than something having to do with the source. It is also possible that the feed that FiOS is getting is not as pristine as what is going to the broadcast antenna. I don't know at this point, and haven't done any precise measurements, but am simply reporting what I see.

Note that #1 has been reported elsewhere on the forum before this. The SD on FiOS is not the "pure source" that can be seen in upconverted-NTSC on the HD channel.

Ken Ross

01-31-06, 06:44 PM

It would seem to me that the FIOS HDMI support would give IT the advantage as opposed to the HD Tivo (you don't say how you have the Tivo setup...but it too supports HDMI). The HD Tivo is already of somewhat lesser PQ than other D* STBs, giving a further potential bias toward the FIOS setup. If it was just a question of 'darker', that could easily be settings, but it's the sharpness issue that's more concerning. I'm assuming you haven't boosted the sharpness of your HD Tivo's input, so that we're dealing with a level playing field?

BTDT

01-31-06, 07:48 PM

No adjustments to either side, and both are going HDMI-to-DVI through the same cable and television input. As I stated above, this is still an area of investigation for me. I understand what you are saying about the advantage, as the HD-TiVo had well-documented problems with its HDMI support -- not so much PQ, but more HW-Q.

Note that this observation is not universal. It is the CBS affiliate local HD feed in particular that seems to have this darkness and sharpness issues. I watched Jay Leno last night from the NBC local HD station and thought the picture there was bright, crisp, and overall outstanding.

That is what has me wondering if FiOS in Dallas is getting a gammy feed off of NBC? Any observations from other DFW-ers who have FiOS *and* an OTA feed to compare it to?

digital_dilemma

02-01-06, 12:53 AM

You are certainly happy with your service digital. I was wondering how you received HD content prior to this? My experience with FiOS TV so far is:

1. SD channels are no worse than D*. Some are clearly better while others continue to show a lot of compression. In particular, the non-HD locals fall far short from the "pristine NTSC" picture you can get on the upconverted HD version of the same channel.

2. HD nationals are significantly better than what D* is providing. I am astonished at the quality of HDNet, DiscoveryHD, and my nice new TNT HD.

3. HD locals are better than D* New York HD feeds, but perhaps a bit duller than the OTA equivalents. In swapping back and forth between my FiOS picture and an OTA picture of the same broadcast through my HD-TiVo it was clear that the FiOS feed was both darker and a bit grainier.

Net net: FiOS for SD appears to have a slight edge over D*. FiOS for HD is clearly superior. FiOS HD vs OTA HD is a bit behind.

I had been using a Samsung SIR-T350 for OTA HD and a Channel Master anenna on my rooftop with correct orientation and signal strength. Now, I had the OTA signal combined in the same coax as the D* signal with Diplexers.

Since pulling the plug on D* and connecting Fios, the images, even compared against OTA, are much more vibrant, and sharp. I had been struggling to find a sweet spot with my CRT RPTV for six months, but it has made such a huge difference. I watched CSI-Miami the other night just spellbound because the colors were so full-bodied and deep and the detail was so much better.

So does this mean that Fios is that much better, or does it mean I had a crappy HD receiver? Or is it that the HDMI input is making that big a difference over the component input (with very expensive cables, I might add)? I just don't know. All I do know is that for the first time since I purchased this set I am completely happy with the pic quality. I useed to work for Zenith Electronics during the transition to 8VSB and we knew HD better than anybody. It's been a long while since I experienced that feeling like I was looking into another world. Fios brought that back to me. Is it amplifying the signal efficiently without introducing noise? Maybe. I don't know. I just know it's much, much better than before. :p