Verizon FiOS HDTV [Text View] - Page 32

afiggatt

10-09-08, 09:56 AM

I wonder why they've flopped from lighting up all the premiums first to lighting up all the others first? My guess is to justify the transition to Essentials/Extreme pricing ASAP. Meanwhile, we premium subscribers are getting the shaft.
If Verizon has to pick which group of HD channels to add to all markets next, I think it makes sense to add the rest of the national HD channels first. Those provide a wide range of series, news, sports, and repeat HD programming. Verizon does provide the primary HD feed for the premium movie channels, after all. There is this device called a DVR you know. Looks like they will be adding the additional Starz, Showtime & TMC West channels with the national HD channels as they all show up in the PDF line-ups as "coming soon". It is the big HBO & Cinemax HD set that appears to have been pushed off. But with the move to the HD Extreme package, Verizon has to fill out that package to try to satisfy all the angry HD viewing Premiere subscribers who are looking at a price increase (although the bundling and signing to 1 or 2 year agreements may offset that for most).

hernanu

10-09-08, 10:24 AM

If Verizon has to pick which group of HD channels to add to all markets next, I think it makes sense to add the rest of the national HD channels first. Those provide a wide range of series, news, sports, and repeat HD programming. Verizon does provide the primary HD feed for the premium movie channels, after all. There is this device called a DVR you know. Looks like they will be adding the additional Starz, Showtime & TMC West channels with the national HD channels as they all show up in the PDF line-ups as "coming soon". It is the big HBO & Cinemax HD set that appears to have been pushed off. But with the move to the HD Extreme package, Verizon has to fill out that package to try to satisfy all the angry HD viewing Premiere subscribers who are looking at a price increase (although the bundling and signing to 1 or 2 year agreements may offset that for most).

When the dust settled from my changing to Extreme HD, bundles, changing to 20/5 internet from 20/20, I wound up saving about $60 / mo. for the same services (including, of course the step up in HD channels).

SayNoToLowDef

10-09-08, 11:22 AM

Does anyone know why California and others were delayed? I have been waiting for a long time for the added HD channels as I am sure everyone else is. The wait is agonizing!

URFloorMatt

10-09-08, 01:25 PM

All I've really wanted was SciFi, FX, and the premiums. And they're dripping them out to me one at a time...

Verizon stated from the get-go that everyone outside New York would see an incremental roll up.

Given that the Florida Gulf Coast PDF lists channels coming soon that we anticipate will go live sometime during the week of October 20, I fully expect the D.C. markets will have every "coming soon" channel by the end of the month. Oct. 20 will be an important week in determining whether Verizon will make the end of the year, I'm wagering. But this fits with information suggesting a Hampton Roads/Richmond roll out by end of October, so I'm optimistic.

I'm going out on a limb and saying every market will hit the full HD package by the end of November.

The real question is, when will we see new HD channels? The Viacom and Rainbow Media channels absent from the line-up are staple channels, even if many of them lack significant HD programming, and Comcast is rolling out several more staple channels in HD in December. I'd also like to see NBA TV, the NHL Network, and the MLB Network as soon as possible.

chibude

10-09-08, 03:44 PM

kes601

10-09-08, 03:47 PM

Newbie to the forum here; I've looked and not found a definitive answer to a question I have. I'm a SoCal subscriber with Triple Freedom @ $109/mo with no additional add-on packages on a 2-year contract that started Jan '08. My tv that was included was Premiere.

As I understand it, we in CA will get our additional channels in one fell swoop. Can anyone who has already gone through the upgrade in a similar situation tell me whether they received HD Essentials or Extreme HD?

Thanks.

Nobody has gone through that update yet, Essential and Extreme was just started yesterday nationwide.

There are reports coming from MA that those on Premiere have lost the 15 channels that were added last week though.

chitchatjf

10-09-08, 04:39 PM

Nobody has gone through that update yet, Essential and Extreme was just started yesterday nationwide.

There are reports coming from MA that those on Premiere have lost the 15 channels that were added last week though.

I didn't lose them :)

OTOH Monday morning I asked to get converted to Extreme and at the same price :)

JWhip

10-09-08, 05:05 PM

If you signed up for a year or two year commitment to the premier package, Verizon is legally obligated to place you on the Extreme package when they drop the Premier. if you lose channels, complain and they will be added back in.

aaronwt

10-09-08, 05:09 PM

afiggatt

10-09-08, 05:09 PM

As I understand it, we in CA will get our additional channels in one fell swoop. Can anyone who has already gone through the upgrade in a similar situation tell me whether they received HD Essentials or Extreme HD?
If you look at the latest PDF channel line-up for Southern CA with the effective date of 10/9 to 10/15, it now has many of the channels listed as "coming soon". I read that as you are not going to get the 100+ HD channels all at once, instead you are going to get the re-alignment and incremental roll-out the same as the rest of the markets that have not gotten the full monty yet. Since no one from CA has posted that they got the re-alignment today, I guess the effective date means it will happen by next Wednesday. Then all markets will have at last gone through the re-alignment and the old HD block of 801 to 855 will be nothing more than a fading memory. :cool:

dtv757

10-09-08, 05:21 PM

Crap! When I go to the channel list and enter my zipzcode it only shows a few HD channels for the Essential/Premier plan.
Going by this it looks like many of the HD channels will drop off unless I pay the extra money for the ExtremeHD.
Which would be a $15 increase since I'm only paying $43 currently for the premier plan that currently has all the HD channels(except for those two sports ones)

please correct ME if i'm wrong but CURRENT SUBS are not effected by the new EXTREME HD LAUNCH.. Granted you wont get some of the new channels but if you current have PREMIER and have HD EQUIPMENT you will still get the same HD channels you have now, you wont loose channels.

also as i have stated in my local Fios thread the new package.. EXTREME HD + 20/5 has a larger monthly discount than the previous triple play discount.
(please note the discount price varies by state, and i and refrencing the changed in VA)

aaronwt

10-09-08, 05:28 PM

please correct ME if i'm wrong but CURRENT SUBS are not effected by the new EXTREME HD LAUNCH.. Granted you wont get some of the new channels but if you current have PREMIER and have HD EQUIPMENT you will still get the same HD channels you have now, you wont loose channels.

also as i have stated in my local Fios thread the new package.. EXTREME HD + 20/5 has a larger monthly discount than the previous triple play discount.
(please note the discount price varies by state, and i and refrencing the changed in VA)

Tell that to the people in MA. They just started losing HD channels today. And were affected by the ExtremeHD launch even though they were on two year agreements with the Premier service.
At least that is what is being reported at Broadband Reports.

afiggatt

10-09-08, 05:31 PM

Does anyone know why California and others were delayed? I have been waiting for a long time for the added HD channels as I am sure everyone else is. The wait is agonizing!
Your long agonizing wait should be over soon! Southern CA is only market that has not gotten the channel re-alignment yet. There are no "others" left. You should get the re-alignment by 10/15 and probably the initial group of new HD channels: CNN-HD, Weather Channel HD, Sci-Fi HD, etc.

ieko

10-09-08, 06:14 PM

If you look at the latest PDF channel line-up for Southern CA with the effective date of 10/9 to 10/15, it now has many of the channels listed as "coming soon". I read that as you are not going to get the 100+ HD channels all at once, instead you are going to get the re-alignment and incremental roll-out the same as the rest of the markets that have not gotten the full monty yet. Since no one from CA has posted that they got the re-alignment today, I guess the effective date means it will happen by next Wednesday. Then all markets will have at last gone through the re-alignment and the old HD block of 801 to 855 will be nothing more than a fading memory. :cool:
What's odd about those "coming soon" comments in that PDF is that they put that next to many channels that we've had for quite some time..

AbMagFab

10-09-08, 07:42 PM

What's odd about those "coming soon" comments in that PDF is that they put that next to many channels that we've had for quite some time..

Right... In other words, they're meaningless...

ieko

10-09-08, 07:45 PM

Yup, bring on the 15th.

Amadeus93

10-09-08, 08:55 PM

Tell that to the people in MA. They just started losing HD channels today. And were affected by the ExtremeHD launch even though they were on two year agreements with the Premier service.
At least that is what is being reported at Broadband Reports.I haven't seen that in Massachusetts. I had a preview of the additional channels (FX HD, MGM HD, etc) for a few days, and as of today they're gone. But I still have all of my other Premier channels.

BeachComber

10-09-08, 09:44 PM

I bet you do assuming FiOS in my area is putting out the same as in your's (which should be the case). You probably just don't see it. To be clear, the image doesn't always look like that. This is a case of fast movements.
I disagree. This is what MPEG-2 tends to do with compression and fast movements and I think it is more likely that you don't see it for one or more reasons (you aren't sensitive to blockiness during fast movements, you have a smaller image with a further viewing ratio, etc.)I am using the Verizon HD-DVR (Motorola) with HDMI at 1080i to a JVC 1080p HD1 (same as RS1) projector with a 10' wide Da-Lite High Power screen and sitting at about 1.1x to 1.2x the screen width.

For DIRECTV I have the HR20 and the rest is the same.

This same boxing show will be on HBO2 tonight and people with FiOS are welcome to record it and pause it at the same spot to see what they see there. I can find out how far in it is, but it is with 26 seconds left in the 1st round of the 3rd fight (the one with Gamboa). I would be happy if the problem isn't already there in what Verizon is putting out (even though it could have come that way from HBO), but I doubt that is the case.

What Model/Brand TV are you using and how far back do you sit?

--Darin

I use a 70 inch Sony SXRD from 8.5 feet away and eye sight is far superior than 20/20.

Unfortunately, I did not see your reply until just now. As I have access to multiple sources, please post the next example of this with some heads up so I can also capture from the sources and will post comparison for you.

SeijiSensei

10-09-08, 10:55 PM

I haven't seen that in Massachusetts. I had a preview of the additional channels (FX HD, MGM HD, etc) for a few days, and as of today they're gone. But I still have all of my other Premier channels.

Where did it say these were "previews?" They didn't appear in my program guide as any different from the other HD channels. They weren't around for long either; I don't think it was much more than a week.

BeachComber

10-09-08, 11:12 PM

For a point of reference, how many FiOS areas currently have ESPN News-HD Live?

SeijiSensei

10-09-08, 11:15 PM

Came and went here along with other new HD channels.

URFloorMatt

10-09-08, 11:17 PM

Verizon Channel Realignment & HD Expansion

Completed expansions in plain text.
Upcoming expansions in italics.
Full 100HD expansion in bold.

VHO 01
10/06/08 – North Texas (Realign; ~80HD) (moved up from 10/08/08) >>> Week of 10/20/08?

VHO 02
10/07/08 – Florida Gulf Coast (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 10/02/08) >>> Week of 10/20/08?

VHO 03
10/15/08 – Southern California (Realign; ~100HD) (delayed from 10/9/08)

VHO 04
09/18/08 – Anne Arundel/Howard County MD (Realign; ~40HD)
09/22/08 – Washington Metro (Realign; ~40HD)
09/30/08 – Baltimore MD (Realign; ~40HD)

VHO 05
07/28/08 – New York (Launch; ~100HD)

VHO 06
08/20/08 – Massachusetts (Realign; ~80HD) >>> 10/02/08 (~100 HD)
08/21/08 – Rhode Island (Realign; ~80HD) >>> 10/02/08 (~100 HD)

VHO 07
07/31/08 – Northern NJ (Realign; ~100HD)

VHO 08
08/29/08 – Central NJ (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/08/08 (~80HD*)
09/02/08 – Southern DE (Realign; ~80HD)
09/04/08 – Central DE (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/09/08 (~80HD*)
09/08/08 – Southern NJ (Realign; ~80HD)
09/08/08 – Northern DE (Realign; ~80HD) (moved up from 09/15/08)
09/10/08 – Mercer Co. NJ (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 08/27/08)
09/11/08 – Southeastern PA (Realign; ~80HD)

VHO 09
08/13/08 – Richmond VA (Realign; ~40HD)
08/14/08 – Hampton Roads VA (Realign; ~40HD)

VHO 10
06/30/08 – Fort Wayne IN (Realign; ~50HD)

VHO 11
08/12/08 – Pittsburgh PA (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 08/06/08)

VHO 12
07/21/08 – Portland OR (Realign; ~40HD)

VHO 13
08/23/08 – Seattle WA (Launch; ~100HD)

VHO 14
09/15/08 – Buffalo NY (Launch; ~100HD)

*Why didn’t Central DE and Central NJ roll up to ~80 initially, especially since Southern DE did?

Is ESPNEWS in the typical first 80 or only showing up in the final 15? It's definitely available in VHOs 5, 6, 7, 13, and 14, since they have the full deal.

chitchatjf

10-10-08, 12:13 AM

Came and went here along with other new HD channels.

I seem to still have it :)

It is called calling Verizon on Monday and arranging to get your contract upgraded to HD Extreme for the SAME price :)

coyoteaz

10-10-08, 12:34 AM

Anyone in TX able to access Vs./Golf HD on 590? I tried to order it tonight but the rep said it's only available as part of Extreme HD, which doesn't come to TX until 10/24.

BeachComber

10-10-08, 01:18 AM

Is ESPNEWS in the typical first 80 or only showing up in the final 15? It's definitely available in VHOs 5, 6, 7, 13, and 14, since they have the full deal.

It was available for around 60 minutes in another VHO on the morning they were doing the upgrade - even though the program guide said "Coming Soon" - then it disappeared, so it really makes no sense as to why if its available they wouldnt just go ahead and turn it on for good.

kes601

10-10-08, 07:58 AM

It was available for around 60 minutes in another VHO on the morning they were doing the upgrade - even though the program guide said "Coming Soon" - then it disappeared, so it really makes no sense as to why if its available they wouldnt just go ahead and turn it on for good.

Wouldn't surprise me if they are holding it out to get people to sign up for the Extreme HD package.

hernanu

10-10-08, 09:32 AM

Wouldn't surprise me if they are holding it out to get people to sign up for the Extreme HD package.

I switched over to the Extreme package since my other agreement was running out, so I pay the extra money. I was also subscribing to the Sports package, which is now included as part of the Extreme, which saved me the same as I was paying for the Sports package, so in fact it turned out to be a wash in that respect. This is if you do it a la carte, since if you do it (as I did ) as a bundle, your price drops more.

If your Premier contract has not run out, there is probably (as noted above) some negotiation you can do to have your package transition to Extreme without paying the extra money. I've found them to be helpful with this, but you have to make the call, it won't happen automatically (maybe it should, but...).

kes601

10-10-08, 09:53 AM

I switched over to the Extreme package since my other agreement was running out, so I pay the extra money. I was also subscribing to the Sports package, which is now included as part of the Extreme, which saved me the same as I was paying for the Sports package, so in fact it turned out to be a wash in that respect. This is if you do it a la carte, since if you do it (as I did ) as a bundle, your price drops more.

If your Premier contract has not run out, there is probably (as noted above) some negotiation you can do to have your package transition to Extreme without paying the extra money. I've found them to be helpful with this, but you have to make the call, it won't happen automatically (maybe it should, but...).

I also called yesterday and switched to the Extreme + 20/5 + Phone bundle yesterday. It saved me about $30 over what I was paying on the premiere bundle because I was paying $8 for the sports package and also had 20/20 instead of 20/5.

PorcupineCuddler

10-10-08, 10:07 PM

I called yesterday to eliminate an international long distance service and also ended up saving an additional $13 on FIOS TV by switching to the latest bundle with all the new HD channels coming next week (down to $109.99 from $114.99) and eliminating the sports package at $7.99 which is now included in the bundle.

More for less, for now!

cfkillers

10-10-08, 10:27 PM

darinp2

10-10-08, 10:32 PM

I use a 70 inch Sony SXRD from 8.5 feet away and eye sight is far superior than 20/20.

Unfortunately, I did not see your reply until just now. As I have access to multiple sources, please post the next example of this with some heads up so I can also capture from the sources and will post comparison for you.I'll look for something coming up. I'm planning on recording the HDNet Test Patterns at 7 am Pacific tomorrow morning from FIOS as well as the MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 versions on DIRECTV, but I don't think they have anything that is that fast moving.

I did some comparing last night with UniversalHD and an Action Sports show between the MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 channels on DIRECTV as well as FIOS. The MPEG-2 channel on DIRECTV shows a huge amount of blocking at times. Sometimes so bad that the UniversalHD logo largely disappears. The FIOS version shows blocking at times and the MPEG-4 version on DIRECTV pretty much looks like a deblocked version of the FIOS one to me for these difficult transitions. I could post or send some pictures to Xylon.

I just looked at the schedule and how about Action Sports on UniversalHD at 10 am Pacific (7 am Eastern) on Sunday morning?

And if you get this in time, for HBO, how about Countdown to Pavlik-Taylor late Saturday night? I'm not sure if it will have as much blocking as HBO's live sports, but I can check it out and see.

--Darin

BeachComber

10-11-08, 03:37 AM

I'll look for something coming up. I'm planning on recording the HDNet Test Patterns at 7 am Pacific tomorrow morning from FIOS as well as the MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 versions on DIRECTV, but I don't think they have anything that is that fast moving.

No, there is nothing fast moving in those patterns.

I did some comparing last night with UniversalHD and an Action Sports show between the MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 channels on DIRECTV as well as FIOS. The MPEG-2 channel on DIRECTV shows a huge amount of blocking at times. Sometimes so bad that the UniversalHD logo largely disappears. The FIOS version shows blocking at times and the MPEG-4 version on DIRECTV pretty much looks like a deblocked version of the FIOS one to me for these difficult transitions. I could post or send some pictures to Xylon.

I just looked at the schedule and how about Action Sports on UniversalHD at 10 am Pacific (7 am Eastern) on Sunday morning?

And if you get this in time, for HBO, how about Countdown to Pavlik-Taylor late Saturday night? I'm not sure if it will have as much blocking as HBO's live sports, but I can check it out and see.

--Darin

I am not saying that I don't see blocking on various channels, including HBO, but I don't see it to the extent you showed it on live events (especially as they normally push upwards of 14 Mbps on live events). I have a specific reason for wanting to look for it on HBO as opposed to HDNET or UHD which are re-encoded, so plan for Pavlik-Taylor on Saturday night and see if you have the same issue.

Amadeus93

10-11-08, 08:08 AM

Where did it say these were "previews?" They didn't appear in my program guide as any different from the other HD channels. They weren't around for long either; I don't think it was much more than a week.Sensei, I believe it appeared in the full guide (not the mini guide or the half-screen guide).

afiggatt

10-11-08, 09:57 AM

im having trouble with my fios hd dvr. the problem is starzhd does not come in at all. when i turn to that channel nothing happens. the screen will continue to play last channel i was watching. if you leave it on starzhd long enough the screen will go black. now this happens with the hddvr only. the other tv which has a regular hd box connected to it dosent do this. does anyone have a solution before i take the plunge and call fios customer support?
If you are signed up for the movie package and get a blank screen for Starz, the problem is likely that the STB/DVR does not have the correct configuration or de-encryption code for Starz-HD. Have you tried a cold reset - unplug the box for 20-30 seconds, plug it back in so it has to reload the guide data? If that does not work, call Verizon. They may need to reset the DVR.

kes601

10-11-08, 11:51 AM

Anybody else seeing bizarreness on Starz HD? Right now Ratatouille is playing, which is supposed to be letterboxed, well, there is black below the picture but not above.....

Last night the picture looked stretched verically (tall, skinny people)

cfkillers

10-11-08, 12:30 PM

i ended up calling verizon and starzhd works now but it is a delay for the channel to come up like 3 sec. but i can deal with it. im having the same thing on my screen with ratatouille.

Brodequin

10-11-08, 06:39 PM

Anything new on NBA TV or League Pass? I'm close to making the switch from Comcast but this is a hiccup.

C*Tedesco

10-12-08, 12:48 AM

BeachComber

10-12-08, 02:09 AM

Same thing here. It's ridiculous. What kind of oversight is this?

I wonder if its only with you locally as the only people mentioning it are you two in Maryland (and yes I understand how FiOS works with SHE and VHOs). I would think that if it was a National Issue with FiOS or StarzHD, someone would mention it elsewhere on AVS. :confused:

URFloorMatt

10-12-08, 02:48 AM

I'm watching Starz right now. No problem here in Spotsylvania, VA.

kes601

10-12-08, 06:29 AM

They fixed Starz HD last night sometime during the movie that was on at 8.

This was an issue with Starz, not a FiOS specific problem, people were seeing the issue on different carriers.

Franke46

10-12-08, 02:04 PM

I use a 70 inch Sony SXRD from 8.5 feet away and eye sight is far superior than 20/20.

Unfortunately, I did not see your reply until just now. As I have access to multiple sources, please post the next example of this with some heads up so I can also capture from the sources and will post comparison for you.

The reaping is playing now. There is a scene near the middle where Hillary Swank is in her room and a record is playing outside, there is some thunder outside and the moment where she turns around the picture looks more like a chess board than anything else. There is also tons of "pixelation" in the final scene where the explosions happen.

If you want, pick any movie with some action happening on HBO or cinemax and record it. I will do the same then post some captions of where pixelation happens.

We need to make enough noise about this so that fios stops giving us this junkie picture, regardless of whether is their own doing or they are getting it from their sources.

Franke46

coyoteaz

10-12-08, 02:50 PM

Probably be a good idea to record the same thing on Comcast, Cox, or Time Warner too, so when they exhibit the same problems (or worse) you can direct your complaints to HBO where they belong.

hobbs47

10-12-08, 02:54 PM

ursa99

10-12-08, 03:30 PM

AbMagFab

10-12-08, 03:31 PM

BeachComber

10-12-08, 03:41 PM

The reaping is playing now. There is a scene near the middle where Hillary Swank is in her room and a record is playing outside, there is some thunder outside and the moment where she turns around the picture looks more like a chess board than anything else. There is also tons of "pixelation" in the final scene where the explosions happen.

If you want, pick any movie with some action happening on HBO or cinemax and record it. I will do the same then post some captions of where pixelation happens.

We need to make enough noise about this so that fios stops giving us this junkie picture, regardless of whether is their own doing or they are getting it from their sources.

Franke46

I dont know how many ways to say it. I am not debating that you aren't having this issue, as you have posted pictures of it. However, I AM STATING that I don't have the issue anywhere close to what you are speaking of. I also have Directv and have compared the pictures. FiOS wins it hands down.

I am trying to get something where by you can show your problem so we can truly see what it looks like on another TV other than your own, but I can't go back in time - I recorded the Boxing stuff last night as you wanted, but don't have yours to compare it to. Give me something that you know has the problem from HBO in advance and lets compare.

BTW, you are aware that if the signal is too hot in your house with FiOS, you get the exact problem you are seeing?

So from what I am reading,is FIOS not the cream of the crop in PQ? I am in Huntington Beach and I am thinking of switching from TWC. I had D* and their MPEG4 channels looked outstanding,but trees were screwing with my line of sight. TWC's PQ has gone to mediocre ever since they added some new channels.
Any input is appreciated. I would hate to go through the trouble of changing only to have marginally better PQ. I always thought FIOS was the best?

It is.

hobbs47

10-12-08, 04:21 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys. Anybody in Huntington Beach move from TWC to FIOS?

afiggatt

10-12-08, 04:49 PM

If you want, pick any movie with some action happening on HBO or cinemax and record it. I will do the same then post some captions of where pixelation happens.

We need to make enough noise about this so that fios stops giving us this junkie picture, regardless of whether is their own doing or they are getting it from their sources.
HBO HD has never had a reputation for really good picture from any service provider. HBO has not provided a high bandwidth signal from the source. IIRC, HBO HD for MPEG-2 encoding has historically run around 10-13 Mbps. Since most of their programming is from 24 fps film sources, the difference is not as noticeable except for fast motion scenes. I have long noted that a 1 or 2 hour recording for HBO HD did not take up as much room on the 6416 DVR as a similar size recording for most other HD channels. I can't speak for the rest of the HBO HD channels as I don't get them yet and can't speak for Cinemax as I don't subscribe to it. But discussions about the picture quality for HBO HD go back on this forum many years and you probably don't see them much anymore because A) people are burned out posting about it; B) we now have a lot more choices for HD channels, and C) if you want really good picture quality for movies, there is Blu-Ray.

HBO is moving or has moved to a mpeg-4 distribution system for the secondary HBO & Cinemax HD channels to the service providers to save on satellite costs, from what I have read. How that affects Verizon for the big batch of HBO and Cinemax HD channels, I don't know. Verizon may need to tweak the mpeg-4 to mpeg-2 decoder/encoder. But I have long since learned not to expect excellent HD picture quality for HBO. It is not Verizon's fault, complain to HBO.

stevec325

10-12-08, 05:00 PM

darinp2

10-12-08, 05:54 PM

I am not saying that I don't see blocking on various channels, including HBO, but I don't see it to the extent you showed it on live events (especially as they normally push upwards of 14 Mbps on live events). I have a specific reason for wanting to look for it on HBO as opposed to HDNET or UHD which are re-encoded, so plan for Pavlik-Taylor on Saturday night and see if you have the same issue.Okay, I took some pictures from about 2-3 minutes in and posted them in the thread for big pictures here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14851550#post14851550

I would love to find out that this has something to do with the install and signal issues from Verizon and to their DVR, which could be addressed.

I watched some of the boxing last night on Showtime and for the small part I compared I thought the FIOS version looked better than the DIRECTV MPEG-4 version. Dark backgrounds during movement for instance. But I don't think I could capture that with still pictures. My impression was that the blockiness wasn't as bad with Showtime as HBO on FiOS.

BTW: What did you mean by, "... HDNET or UHD which are re-encoded"? Do you mean on FiOS?

--Darin

hobbs47

10-12-08, 08:01 PM

With FIOS do you have to have a STB,or can I pick up unencrypted HD channels with the QAM tuner in my bedroom LCD? I would still be getting a DVR for my main tv.

dtv757

10-12-08, 08:05 PM

Oh, and it's about $50/month less expensive... for MORE HD channels. IMHO, if you have FIOS in your area, you should switch from whatever you currently have.

amen to that... well unless your a diehard NFL ST sub lol :D:D

jamieva

10-12-08, 10:00 PM

I had Comcast previously, and the PQ increased dramatically when I switched to Fios, even for the non HD channels on my old non HD tvs.

Any update on when the 2nd HD rollout comes for Richmond, VA?

afiggatt

10-12-08, 11:11 PM

With FIOS do you have to have a STB,or can I pick up unencrypted HD channels with the QAM tuner in my bedroom LCD? I would still be getting a DVR for my main tv.
Yes, you can get the HD and SD locals with a QAM tuner. Verizon provides all the SD locals, the public/educational/government (PEG) channels (QAM 63-6x), the digital broadcast locals with the HD & SD sub-channels (QAM 71-7x), and the music channels (QAM 66, 84) in the clear. All of the national channels are encrypted with only a few exceptions: WGN (SD) at 55-100 and the Weather Channel at QAM 66. If the TV QAM tuner can successfully pick up the PSIP channel mapping data, the digital broadcast locals should be mapped to the broadcast channel number such as 4-1, 4-2, 5-1, etc.

BTW, Verizon is running a free preview for Setanta Sports channel. I did a QAM channel scan yesterday and found Setanta Sports in the clear at QAM channel 15. Verizon puts the encrypted channels in the clear for the preview periods such as the occasional free preview weekends they have for the Movie package or HBO/Cinemax.

Franke46

10-12-08, 11:18 PM

I recorded the Boxing stuff last night as you wanted

You are probably confusing me with darinp2. He is the one who had pictures of the boxing stuff.

Verizon techs already checked signal levels at my house. Everything is good as far as signal levels go.

Franke46

Franke46

10-12-08, 11:31 PM

So from what I am reading,is FIOS not the cream of the crop in PQ? I am in Huntington Beach and I am thinking of switching from TWC. I had D* and their MPEG4 channels looked outstanding,but trees were screwing with my line of sight. TWC's PQ has gone to mediocre ever since they added some new channels.
Any input is appreciated. I would hate to go through the trouble of changing only to have marginally better PQ. I always thought FIOS was the best?

I thought so too and I went ahead and got it. Now I'm dissapointed but hey, live and learn. darinp2's posts seem to show DirectTV actually has the edge in PQ.

FIOS is a little better than cable in PQ, channel selection with the new realignment is also better than cable, but I find the blocking issue too distracting. It's hard to believe some people here are accepting it as normal. It isn't. I didn't buy all the equipment I did to watch movies made of legos. A picture that looks great 90% of the time is not good enough.

We should be pushing verizon to go to HBO or whoever and demand the best stream they have, instead people are finding reasons why Verizon is not to blame, I don't get that.

I'd recommend to get FIOS without disconnecting your cable provider if you can. I wish I had done that. Then you can compare and decide. I think you have 30 days from install to cancell fios if you so choose. Also check direct TV, I will be doing that myself.

Franke46

AbMagFab

10-12-08, 11:41 PM

I also moved from cable to FIOS. The picture quality is slightly better and channel selection with the new realignment is better than cable, but I find the blocking issue too distracting. I will look into getting Direct TV.

Franke46

You do realize that if DirecTV looks better to you from a blocking perspective, it's likely due to their softening of the picture during the recompression?

FIOS is passing the original picture from the source, without any additional shaping or recompressing. You can't get any better.

BeachComber

10-13-08, 12:09 AM

Okay, I took some pictures from about 2-3 minutes in and posted them in the thread for big pictures here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14851550#post14851550

I would love to find out that this has something to do with the install and signal issues from Verizon and to their DVR, which could be addressed.

I watched some of the boxing last night on Showtime and for the small part I compared I thought the FIOS version looked better than the DIRECTV MPEG-4 version. Dark backgrounds during movement for instance. But I don't think I could capture that with still pictures. My impression was that the blockiness wasn't as bad with Showtime as HBO on FiOS.

--Darin

I wish I could get imageshack to post at full resolution, but apparently they have something that prevents that now

Here is what it looks like here - much less macroblocking then what you see:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4610/hbo1qf1.png (http://imageshack.us)

Also, do you understand the difference in I frames, B Frames and P Frames, and because MPEG2 and MPEG4 use different encoders, an I Frame on one may not be an I Frame on the other?

coyoteaz

10-13-08, 12:13 AM

FIOS is passing the original picture from the source, without any additional shaping or recompressing. You can't get any better.
You can if there are 2 different feeds for the same channel, as in HBO HD having both MPEG2 and MPEG4 feeds. FiOS will pass through the MPEG2 feed, but for all anyone knows, D* is passing through a (superior) MPEG4 feed. The secondary HBO services don't even have MPEG2 feeds, so Verizon has to be reencoding them from the MPEG4 feeds.

Other channels like HDNet only have a single feed in MPEG2, so FiOS will have superior quality because D* will have to reencode that to MPEG4.

BeachComber

10-13-08, 12:28 AM

Actually, the 1 frame that darinp2 chose was a B frame at the beginning of a GOP. The very next frame was an I frame, which has no issue. Obviously, it doesn't look as bad on mine as it does on his, indicating he has other issues.

However, the question becomes can you pick out 1 bad frame out of 30 every second? As I also stated, the MPEG4 encoders are not operating with I, B and P frames as a MPEG2 encoder is - and certainly not on the same frame. I am sure I could go through the same sequence and find where the MPEG4 looks far worse than the MPEG2 on the I Frames.

B Frame first in GOP

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2665/hbo1np5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I Frame / Next Frame

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9260/hbo2ak8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

You can also see the size of the I-Frame was almost 60% bigger than the B Frame.

darinp2

10-13-08, 12:37 AM

I wish I could get imageshack to post at full resolution, but apparently they have something that prevents that now.I just made a free account on photobucket for the ones I posted and that seems to work pretty well.
Also, do you understand the difference in I frames, B Frames and P Frames, and because MPEG2 and MPEG4 use different encoders, an I Frame on one may not be an I Frame on the other?Yes I do and I already addressed in the post you looked at that things vary from step to step, why I chose that frame, and that I could use some other frames depending on how this one turned out.
However, the question becomes can you pick out 1 bad frame out of 30 every second?I was not looking for frames that favored one over the other. I already explained that once.

Thanks for posting that picture. So, how do I deal with a case where the Verizon signal is too strong without causing more problems, if that is the problem here? Maybe this is related to me only running this to one room where they seem to have enough strength to run to lots of rooms. They put in a 2 way splitter. One side for the internet (and maybe phone) and one side for the one DVR I got from them.

--Darin

BeachComber

10-13-08, 01:33 AM

I just made a free account on photobucket for the ones I posted and that seems to work pretty well.
Yes I do and I already addressed in the post you looked at that things vary from step to step, why I chose that frame, and that I could use some other frames depending on how this one turned out.

Via PM I have sent you a link for the full bitrate picture you can post with the others if you wish.

I was not looking for frames that favored one over the other. I already explained that once..

Yes, but it has been scientifically proven time and time again that humans cannot pick out 1 frame out of 30 in 1 second. You would need multiple frames of macroblocking 3 or 4 minimum, which this did not have, as shown by the I Frame in the next frame. Therefore, its really not even material, and then again, my bad picture wasn't as bad as yours.

Thanks for posting that picture. So, how do I deal with a case where the Verizon signal is too strong without causing more problems, if that is the problem here? Maybe this is related to me only running this to one room where they seem to have enough strength to run to lots of rooms. They put in a 2 way splitter. One side for the internet (and maybe phone) and one side for the one DVR I got from them.

--Darin

The ONT puts out a hot signal as its not known how many splitters and STBs will be connected up in a house. I know its listed in the FiOS install thread - either over +3db or +6db causes the excessive macroblocking. You need to check the signal input at each STB and pad the signal down to that level. As for either +3db or +6db, I am sure someone will chirp in and give the exact number (I think its +6db though). You can either run it through a splitter or an attenuator to drop the signal.

darinp2

10-13-08, 01:45 AM

Via PM I have sent you a link for the full bitrate picture you can post with the others if you wish.Thanks. If you get time could you please send the frame after it also (the I-frame).

Still a fair amount of blocking IMO with the one you sent me, but not as bad as what I have been getting. I wonder if this might be related to the Motorola DVR I got from them and I just ordered a TIVO from the TIVO website.
Yes, but it has been scientifically proven time and time again that humans cannot pick out 1 frame out of 30 in 1 second. You would need multiple frames of macroblocking 3 or 4 minimum, which this did not have, as shown by the I Frame in the next frame. Therefore, its really not even material, and then again, my bad picture wasn't as bad as yours.As I already addressed, I see blocking problems at regular speed on HBO with fast movements, and this wasn't a 1 frame out of 30 kind of thing, so that comment does not apply to what I have been getting from what Verizon put in my house. If I didn't see any problems at regular speed I wouldn't be concerned.

And 2 frames (one a B-frame and one an I-frame) would not prove that it is below the point that humans could detect that there is a problem.

To be clear, are you claiming that when you play that sequence at regular speed, you cannot tell that there is any issue whatsoever with the image quality related to blocking?

--Darin

BeachComber

10-13-08, 02:21 AM

Thanks. If you get time could you please send the frame after it also (the I-frame).

Still a fair amount of blocking IMO with the one you sent me, but not as bad as what I have been getting. I wonder if this might be related to the Motorola DVR I got from them and I just ordered a TIVO from the TIVO website.
As I already addressed, I see blocking problems at regular speed on HBO with fast movements, and this wasn't a 1 frame out of 30 kind of thing, so that comment does not apply to what I have been getting from what Verizon put in my house. If I didn't see any problems at regular speed I wouldn't be concerned.

And 2 frames (one a B-frame and one an I-frame) would not prove that it is below the point that humans could detect that there is a problem.

To be clear, are you claiming that when you play that sequence at regular speed, you cannot tell that there is any issue whatsoever with the image quality related to blocking?

--Darin

When only 1 frame out of 30 has macroblocking in it, no the human eye can't see it. It takes upwards of 3-4 frames within 1 second to register in the human brain. Its the same reason you can find a frame with the anchors looking goofy and eyes closed during a newscast, but you never see it like that in real time.

I should also point out that you doubled the effective resolution of that picture as your jpg is roughly 1408x1056 when if you look at the area you cropped, it should only be around 700 lines.

Also, fwiw, the signal level info is here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14430236&postcount=6936

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14440330&highlight=sweet#post14440330

It appears +5 is what you want.

darinp2

10-13-08, 02:46 AM

When only 1 frame out of 30 has macroblocking in it, no the human eye can't see it. It takes upwards of 3-4 frames within 1 second to register in the human brain. Its the same reason you can find a frame with the anchors looking goofy and eyes closed during a newscast, but you never see it like that in real time.Is that your answer to:
To be clear, are you claiming that when you play that sequence at regular speed, you cannot tell that there is any issue whatsoever with the image quality related to blocking?Why not just say if you can't see any problems related to the blocking when watching at regular speed? You didn't prove it was 1 frame out of 30 and the science would prove that you could see that there was a problem if you could see that there was a problem, regardless of any arguments you make about 1 frame out of 30 with a proof about 1 frame out of 2. The true test of whether you can see whether there was a problem is to test for that. If you can reliably pick out that there was a problem and science said you couldn't if it was only 1 frame out of 30, then that would show that it either wasn't only 1 frame out of 30, or the stated science in that instance was wrong (or incorrectly applied).

--Darin

BeachComber

10-13-08, 03:12 AM

Is that your answer to:
Why not just say if you can't see any problems related to the blocking when watching at regular speed? You didn't prove it was 1 frame out of 30 and the science would prove that you could see that there was a problem if you could see that there was a problem, regardless of any arguments you make about 1 frame out of 30 with a proof about 1 frame out of 2. The true test of whether you can see whether there was a problem is to test for that. If you can reliably pick out that there was a problem and science said you couldn't if it was only 1 frame out of 30, then that would show that it either wasn't only 1 frame out of 30, or the stated science in that instance was wrong (or incorrectly applied).

--Darin

Again, if anyone flashes 1 frame on a screen for 1/30th of a second, you would not be able to tell me if it had any macroblocking in it or not. Minimum perception levels for humans are 3 frames on the low side to around 5 frames.

And yes, as the I Frame is the next frame, it does not have Macroblocking in it as can be seen in the thread post #7818

darinp2

10-13-08, 03:33 AM

Again, if anyone flashes 1 frame on a screen for 1/30th of a second, you would not be able to tell me if it had any macroblocking in it or not.And that wasn't my question. My question was:To be clear, are you claiming that when you play that sequence at regular speed, you cannot tell that there is any issue whatsoever with the image quality related to blocking?You certainly haven't proven that it was 1 frame out of 30. And using the frame following it doesn't prove it was below human perception levels. Actually watching the sequence will give a good idea. Have you done that, or are you just using what looks like faulty application of science (claiming that 2 frames where the I-frame follows the B-frame proves that there wasn't enough of a problem for a person to perceive that there was a problem in the sequence).
And yes, as the I Frame is the next frame, it does not have Macroblocking in it as can be seen in the thread post #7818I can't see that in the image given the small size of the image here, but it also proves nothing about whether it would be possible to see at regular speed that there is a problem with that sequence. Every I-frame could be perfect and P and/or B-frames could have problems that would cause people to notice that there was a problem with the video, even at regular speed. Do you disagree with that?

And since you have used this 1 frame out of 30 argument multiple times now, did you look at 30 frames in a row there and determine that the one frame I took the picture of is the only one out of those 30 that had any blocking?

--Darin

jeepmatt

10-13-08, 06:09 AM

Anything new on NBA TV or League Pass? I'm close to making the switch from Comcast but this is a hiccup.

NBA TV (and HD) is coming...most likely by next month.

Not sure about League Pass.

AbMagFab

10-13-08, 08:21 AM

And that wasn't my question. My question was:You certainly haven't proven that it was 1 frame out of 30. And using the frame following it doesn't prove it was below human perception levels. Actually watching the sequence will give a good idea. Have you done that, or are you just using what looks like faulty application of science (claiming that 2 frames where the I-frame follows the B-frame proves that there wasn't enough of a problem for a person to perceive that there was a problem in the sequence).
I can't see that in the image given the small size of the image here, but it also proves nothing about whether it would be possible to see at regular speed that there is a problem with that sequence. Every I-frame could be perfect and P and/or B-frames could have problems that would cause people to notice that there was a problem with the video, even at regular speed. Do you disagree with that?

And since you have used this 1 frame out of 30 argument multiple times now, did you look at 30 frames in a row there and determine that the one frame I took the picture of is the only one out of those 30 that had any blocking?

--Darin

Dude, what's your goal here? Do you work for DirecTV and you're trying to spread FUD about Verizon, or are you just super anal and trying to squeeze out every last byte of picture quality?

Bottom line is FIOS will likely always have the best picture quality, as they are sending the source picture unmolested (although MPEG-4 sources are still up-in-the-air). They don't reshape or bitstrip.

And none of these are BluRay! You're never going to get 1080p 30mb/s picture quality. Macroblocking is a fact of life here. Give it up.

However to each his own, and if DirecTV looks better to you, then by all means, go get DirecTV. You'll be the only one who thinks this way who has actually spent any time looking at them both, but whatever. Perhaps to your eye, the re-encoding to MPEG-4 is preferable (where to many of us it results in a loss of visual detail).

Anyway, let's stop debating one-frame screen shots, as it's boring and it doesn't help me learn when I'm going to get the remaining Phase 2 or Phase 3 HD channels in my area.

On that note - any news of new HD channels in DC/MD?

aaronwt

10-13-08, 08:38 AM

There is always blocking on these channels from every provider I've had since 2001(and every TV/provider I've seen content on at stores and friends houses). Anytime there are bright flashes, fast movement, or fast camera pans there are some macroblocking. the question is how much there will be.
The only content where I don't see this on a regular basis is HD DVD and BD. But I've always seen it on broadcast content. always.

FAZ8218

10-13-08, 09:43 AM

NBA TV (and HD) is coming...most likely by next month.

Not sure about League Pass.
Where are you getting this info?

Any news on NHL Network?

Jim Hef

10-13-08, 09:57 AM

This is what I just posted for my local area, and thought it may be interesting here also:

Just got off the phone with the rep, and yes, you need to sign up for Extreme HD if you want to continue getting all the channels they have just installed, plus the additional "coming soon" channels. With my present subscription, the Sports and Movies and the HBO/Cinemax/Starz movie bundle came out to about $39 per month additional. The new Extreme HD bundle puts the sports into that tier, and gives you every channel for $29 per month. That also includes an "upgrade" to 20/5 internet from the original 15/2. Of course, I changed over, but plan to be on the phone for awhile...it took about 15 minutes for me until they could figure out what I should be applying for. Overall though, the service rep was very good and accommodating! I called the number that GeekGirl stated above...800/840.5503.

Forgot one aspect of this...if you don't sign up for the Extreme package, you may actually lose channels that you now have, for whatever reason. Can't tell you what they might be because I didn't ask, and I've had the complete package of all available channels including the premium movie stuff.

afiggatt

10-13-08, 10:19 AM

Forgot one aspect of this...if you don't sign up for the Extreme package, you may actually lose channels that you now have, for whatever reason. Can't tell you what they might be because I didn't ask, and I've had the complete package of all available channels including the premium movie stuff.
You have to get the HD Extreme package to get any of the national HD channels once the new pricing packages kick in for your market & account. Only the HD locals are included with the Essentials package. You can see this by going to the new channel line-up web page, entering your zip, and flipping between the line-ups for the Essentials and HD Extreme packages. The HD Extreme package includes what used to the additional Sports package channels. All of us Fios HD viewers are going to eventually have to get the HD Extreme package if we want to view any HD channels beyond the HD locals (which are in the clear). But from the reports, there may not be a actual price increase if you bundle it right with the internet and phone services.

HDTV-NUT

10-13-08, 11:41 AM

YesJim

10-13-08, 12:41 PM

You have to get the HD Extreme package to get any of the national HD channels once the new pricing packages kick in for your market & account. Only the HD locals are included with the Essentials package. You can see this by going to the new channel line-up web page, entering your zip, and flipping between the line-ups for the Essentials and HD Extreme packages. The HD Extreme package includes what used to the additional Sports package channels. All of us Fios HD viewers are going to eventually have to get the HD Extreme package if we want to view any HD channels beyond the HD locals (which are in the clear). But from the reports, there may not be a actual price increase if you bundle it right with the internet and phone services.

I just did the ExtremeHD upgrade from the extinct "Premiere" package that I originally had from last year. There was no price increase as long as I took the new "base" 10/2 internet (up from 5/2 which is also no longer offered) and the rep also confirmed that at least for now that package is "future proof." For an extra $12/mo I could have had the 20/5 package. The only down side was increasing my early term contract by 1 year, but I've been happy with FIOS so it was a no-brainer.

DCFan

10-13-08, 02:11 PM

with the NEW bundle, the discount is bigger monthly ..

here are the 2 new bundles for VA and most other markets

Thanks for the heads-up on this bundle package. I signed up for it also. In addition, the CSR told me that the DC metro area will have 109 HD channels by the end of November.

FredB

10-13-08, 02:13 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys. Anybody in Huntington Beach move from TWC to FIOS?

I was one of the first ones to switch from TWC to FIOS when it became available in our area. Here is the link to my initial impressions. Since then I never looked back.

FredB
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10251145#post10251145

John Mason

10-13-08, 02:13 PM

Question for you guys.

Just read a statement from verizon that says Fios is now available in my town, (South Plainfield, NJ). However when I type in my address and multiple adresses from all around the town it says that Fios is not available? On the one hand verizon is saying it is available but on the other it is saying nobody in the town can get it yet. lol. Anyone ever experience this?

Here is the statement to back up what I am saying. http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-releases/verizon/2008/great-news-for-new-jersey.html
Just encountered something similar with RCN's new "analog-crush" program for NYC. Their national hotline isn't aware of local status and sales discount promotions. Dropping most analog slots gives RCN space for ~75 HDs currently, with numerous "coming soons" supposedly kicking in next month. Best bet, if feasible, is calling the local installation folks. Remarkable, with the flexibility of national computer networking, that local status updates can't go online instantly for everyone. -- John

kes601

10-13-08, 02:15 PM

The Phase II rollout for Hampton Roads has been pushed back to the first week of November (originally last week of October). Hopefully that 100 number will be correct for here as well.

bwaldron

10-13-08, 02:24 PM

amen to that... well unless your a diehard NFL ST sub lol :D:D

Or a diehard out-of-market sports fan of any type. I could actually live without Sunday Ticket, but not without Extra Innings, Center Ice or League Pass (the first two of which DirecTV does a great job with tons of HD and dual feeds).

I can't consider switching to FIOS until they are competitive in this area.

darinp2

10-13-08, 02:33 PM

Dude, what's your goal here? Do you work for DirecTV and you're trying to spread FUD about Verizon, or are you just super anal and trying to squeeze out every last byte of picture quality?

Bottom line is FIOS will likely always have the best picture quality, as they are sending the source picture unmolested (although MPEG-4 sources are still up-in-the-air). They don't reshape or bitstrip.

And none of these are BluRay! You're never going to get 1080p 30mb/s picture quality. Macroblocking is a fact of life here. Give it up.

However to each his own, and if DirecTV looks better to you, then by all means, go get DirecTV. You'll be the only one who thinks this way who has actually spent any time looking at them both, but whatever. Perhaps to your eye, the re-encoding to MPEG-4 is preferable (where to many of us it results in a loss of visual detail).

Anyway, let's stop debating one-frame screen shots, as it's boring and it doesn't help me learn when I'm going to get the remaining Phase 2 or Phase 3 HD channels in my area.I'm looking for the best image quality and I'm sure as heck not going to apologize for looking for the truth on www.avscience.com even if somebody with one of the services wants to try to suppress information. I have a little more time where I can cancel the FiOS TV service and if I go beyond that then I am committed to a year with them (at the same time as I have about 1 more year commitment with DIRECTV).

If Verizon is going to stick to MPEG-2 then even if they take the original signal they may end up being behind if content providers move toward providing both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4, where the MPEG-4 is done early enough in the chain (before much of the blockiness of MPEG-2 gets into the signal). And even if they don't end up behind, the gap may get smaller or where you have to pick your poison, where one isn't better than the other, just different problems.

You can settle for, "Macroblocking is a fact of life here", but blockiness varies and it doesn't have to be at the level we get many times from MPEG-2 at the rates these things are delivered. Studies have been done by some working on advanced codecs that found that more people preferred things going soft during tough portions to going blocky, than the other way around and is one of the reasons that at least one of the advanced codecs tends to behave differently than MPEG-2 in this regard.

I don't think my questions to BeachComber on this were difficult. Basically, has he looked at the segment in question at speed on the SXRD setup he told me about earlier and if so, does it look pristine or does he notice that there are imaging problems during that sequence from the blockiness? I appreciate the information about the hot signal levels, but so far the answers I have gotten about whether imaging problems are visible to him in that segment have seemed somewhat like asking somebody if a certain species of bumblebee can fly and they claim that some science says that there is some power to weight ratio needed and so no they can't fly. Then when I ask if they've actually tested or observed to see if that species can fly they just repeat that line about power to weight ratio and say that they can't fly, without addressing whether they've actually observed or tested to see what the truth is. Here, the proof is in the watching and after multiple responses I still can't tell if BeachComber has watched this at speed on his SXRD setup and observed whether he notices any imaging problems in that sequence.

If BeachComber was to tell me that the image looked pristine in that sequence with an actual test (not some bogus logic about the following I-frame proving there weren't enough problems to for humans to see that there was a problem) then I would be more likely to take my chances and get past this 15 day period I think I have to cancel from the install date. But, if I get any signal issues fixed to the point where the individual frames look like his and I can see that there are imaging problems in that sequence while watching at speed, then of course I wouldn't put much stock in claims about how the video will look at speed in the future.

And AbMagFab, I don't really care whether you are bored of screen shots to try to figure out problem areas. You are more than welcome to put me on ignore.

--Darin

AbMagFab

10-13-08, 02:49 PM

I'm looking for the best image quality and I'm sure as heck not going to apologize for looking for the truth on www.avscience.com even if somebody with one of the services wants to try to suppress information. I have a little more time where I can cancel the FiOS TV service and if I go beyond that then I am committed to a year with them (at the same time as I have about 1 more year commitment with DIRECTV).

Okay, so if your goal is to choose one, what do you want the board here to tell you that they haven't already, over and over? I think you're the only one saying D* might be better than FIOS. Even a few people who have switched from TWC to FIOS have said FIOS is way better.

But ultiimately, this comes down to which looks better to you. It seems you like the DirecTV picture better. Great! Go with DirecTV.

Is there anything else you're looking for from this board that hasn't already been provided?

darinp2

10-13-08, 03:02 PM

Okay, so if your goal is to choose one, what do you want the board here to tell you that they haven't already, over and over?Have you not been following? I thought that was pretty easy to figure out. My images are blockier than BeachComber's on that frame, so there is probably a signal level issue with what Verizon installed. BeachComber has provided a single image capture of that B-frame which has some blockiness, but not as much blockiness as mine. So, I would like to know whether he has tried this on his 70" SXRD at speed and whether he sees any image problems in that sequence. Not some rhetoric about if only 1 out of 30 frames has blocks people can't see it or how a following frame proves there aren't enough for problems to be visible (when obviously using only the following frames and not previous frames doesn't prove that at all), but whether he can see any problems with that sequence at speed, since his looks different than mine.
But ultiimately, this comes down to which looks better to you. It seems you like the DirecTV picture better.I thought it had become clear that I am getting different images from FiOS than he is, so I cannot say whether I would like the HBO stuff better between the images he is getting from FiOS and the DIRECTV images I am getting. If I was getting the same images from FiOS as him I would just run the tests myself. But since I am not getting the same images I am trying to figure out what I am likely to see when I get all the FiOS stuff fixed up (even if it requires getting Verizon out to look at signal levels), before I end up committed to a year. And I was also trying to figure out whether it was worth it to spend the money to order a TIVO to use with this. I went ahead and ordered one last night though.

As I've hopefully made clear, if I can get the signal issues worked out quickly I will run the tests myself and then decide.

--Darin

AbMagFab

10-13-08, 03:12 PM

Have you not been following? I thought that was pretty easy to figure out. My images are blockier than BeachComber's on that frame, so there is probably a signal level issue with what Verizon installed. BeachComber has provided a single image capture of that B-frame which has some blockiness, but not as much blockiness as mine. So, I would like to know whether he has tried this on his 70" SXRD at speed and whether he sees any image problems in that sequence. Not some rhetoric about if only 1 out of 30 frames has blocks people can't see it or how a following frame proves there aren't enough for problems to be visible (when obviously using only the following frames and not previous frames doesn't prove that at all), but whether he can see any problems with that sequence at speed, since his looks different than mine.
I thought it had become clear that I am getting different images from FiOS than he is, so I cannot say whether I would like the HBO stuff better between the images he is getting from FiOS and the DIRECTV images I am getting. If I was getting the same images from FiOS as him I would just run the tests myself. But since I am not getting the same images I am trying to figure out what I am likely to see when I get all the FiOS stuff fixed up (even if it requires getting Verizon out to look at signal levels), before I end up committed to a year. And I was also trying to figure out whether it was worth it to spend the money to order a TIVO to use with this. I went ahead and ordered one last night though.

As I've hopefully made clear, if I can get the signal issues worked out quickly I will run the tests myself and then decide.

--Darin

Gotcha... it looked to me like the photo of the screen was normal, and perhaps the calibration on your TV just made it more obvious (my 60" SXRD can make normal macroblocking nearly invisible, or really obvious, with just a couple of setting changes).

Anyway, I didn't realize you had this scientifically nailed down to actual source signal differences. I thought it was still in display differences (which I attributed to display calibration differences). Since generally the kind of macroblocking that I saw in at least one of your pictures was consistent with source macroblocking, not RC uncorrected-type signal issues macroblocking.

jeepmatt

10-13-08, 03:16 PM

Where are you getting this info?

Any news on NHL Network?

FAZ-
NHL Network HD and NBA TV will be launched at the same time. Look for them both in November.

gdeep

10-13-08, 03:26 PM

FAZ-
NHL Network HD and NBA TV will be launched at the same time. Look for them both in November.

Do you know if all markets will get both of these channels?

Jim Hef

10-13-08, 03:26 PM

...All of us Fios HD viewers are going to eventually have to get the HD Extreme package if we want to view any HD channels beyond the HD locals....
Yes, but why doesn't Verizon make that more clear to the early subscribers? If I weren't on this Forum reading the various threads, I would have one day awakened to no HD channels, and thought that there was a transmission problem, not one of provider nomenclature. Verizon should just roll you over to a similar package, and let you know that there are alternatives available...wouldn't that be simpler and more to the point?

kes601

10-13-08, 03:41 PM

Yes, but why doesn't Verizon make that more clear to the early subscribers? If I weren't on this Forum reading the various threads, I would have one day awakened to no HD channels, and thought that there was a transmission problem, not one of provider nomenclature. Verizon should just roll you over to a similar package, and let you know that there are alternatives available...wouldn't that be simpler and more to the point?

I imagine those on contracts w/the Premiere Package will get a letter before all that National HDs are turned off.

aaronwt

10-13-08, 03:58 PM

with the NEW bundle, the discount is bigger monthly ..

here are the 2 new bundles for VA and most other markets

How will that work for me? I have the 50mbs tier which does not qualify for a bundle. I currently pay $43 for the premiere($70 for phone and TV with the double play bundle)

Will I be able to get a discount for cell, TV, and home phone so the Extreme HD package doesn't increase my price? I'm already paying around $270 a month for all four services.(including Cablecards, HD STB, etc)

bdraw

10-13-08, 05:09 PM

Taking a single frame and comparing it is great if you watched still images, but I doubt you do.

In my opinion video with motion should be compared. When I first subscribed to FiOS I still had DirecTV and did some head to head comparison of HGTV HD (at the time it was one of the only MPEG4 channels that FiOS carried) and the only NOTICEABLY difference I could appreciate between the two services was that when blocking did occur, it took DirecTV longer to recover (but not much longer).

As far as I'm concerned the level of blockiness is a moot point, because artifacts are artifacts and at that point you're arguing about the level of degradation. Personally, I care more about the duration of the artifacts then how bad they are when they occur.

As for the difference I saw. I theorized that it was caused by the fact that HGTV HD was distributed as MPEG2 and then converted to MPEG4 by DirecTV.

MPEG2 vs MPEG4: until every channel is distributed as MPEG4, using it is not really much of an advantage from Verizon's perspective. The fact is that there are so many other things that are more important when it comes to picture quality -- the whole debate reminds me of 1080i vs 720p of yesteryear. Also, if Verizon did start deploying channels with MPEG4, they'd run into some trouble with the FCC, and a device as simple as the Tuning Adapter wouldn't help CableCARD users tune in MPEG4 channels.

I did my testing on a Pioneer PDP-6010FD, both connected via component to a Series3 TiVo and a H20. Both devices were connected via a Key Digital Matrix switch and into the same input of the TV. I was sitting about four feet away from the TV at the time, as I would watch the H20 and then switch sources and use the TiVo to replay back the exact same video via FiOS signal.

carljanderson

10-13-08, 06:06 PM

FAZ-
NHL Network HD and NBA TV will be launched at the same time. Look for them both in November.

I guess this would be a good time to throw in the obligatory pay package questions.

Will they announce League Pass and Center Ice at that time too?

Ken Ross

10-13-08, 06:50 PM

I thought it had become clear that I am getting different images from FiOS than he is, so I cannot say whether I would like the HBO stuff better between the images he is getting from FiOS and the DIRECTV images I am getting. If I was getting the same images from FiOS as him I would just run the tests myself. But since I am not getting the same images I am trying to figure out what I am likely to see when I get all the FiOS stuff fixed up (even if it requires getting Verizon out to look at signal levels), before I end up committed to a year. And I was also trying to figure out whether it was worth it to spend the money to order a TIVO to use with this. I went ahead and ordered one last night though.

As I've hopefully made clear, if I can get the signal issues worked out quickly I will run the tests myself and then decide.

--Darin

The one thing I haven't seen you mention are the vast majority of channels that aren't using mpeg4. Those channels will most certainly look better on FIOS. So if it were true that the mpeg4s looked better on D* than FIOS, you'd have to decide if you prefer having a couple of channels look better but at the same time have 90 look worse. ;)

Brodequin

10-13-08, 07:36 PM

seplant

10-13-08, 08:30 PM

Looks like Verizon is getting ready to expand the HD channel lineup in Fort Wayne. The guide now shows 18 new HD channels. I also counted an additional 13 Showtime/Starz/Movie Channel HD channels (I don't have HBO, so I didn't count those, but there were more of them also). All totaled there will be 98 HD channels offered. The channels aren't active yet, but obviously this is the first step to adding the channels. Here are the new channels in the guide: FX, WGN, ESPN News, Speed, Tennis, WFN, MAV TV, Fox Business, Fox News, Biography, QVC, PLNTG (?), Travel, ABC Family, HMC, MGM, Disney, Toon Disney.

AbMagFab

10-13-08, 08:47 PM

Good news on NBA TV coming in November, lets hope it happens.

Another question. What kind of price should I expect after the year is up and the bundle discounts are gone? Will Verizon have a general bundle discount of 10-20 dollars or will all services be full price? For those who are through with your one year contracts, how much did your bill increase?

My bill went way up, so I just called and got into another contract, and got an even better discount. So if you're willing to keep reupping your contract, you can continue to get great deals.

AbMagFab

10-13-08, 08:48 PM

kes601

10-13-08, 08:50 PM

Grrr.... so when is DC/MD going to get more than our puny ~40 HD channel lineup?

I believe you tentatively scheduled the end of November, we are set for the first week of Nov. -- of course that could change as it was supposed to be the last week of Oct. as of last week.

Remember Ft. Wayne was the first to get the new HDs, I'm surprised it took this long to get Phase II for them.

URFloorMatt

10-13-08, 08:57 PM

Based on what seplant says is coming, this will be the full rollup for Fort Wayne.

kes601

10-13-08, 08:59 PM

Based on what seplant says is coming, this will be the full rollup for Fort Wayne.

Whatever we get in Hampton Roads in November will be the last of it for 2008, so I am hoping they merely forgot to put the HBO's on the PDF lineup that is on the website.

aaronwt

10-14-08, 07:57 AM

Grrr.... so when is DC/MD going to get more than our puny ~40 HD channel lineup?

My guide shows nine premium channels as "coming soon" .

Here is the DC area FIOS channel list in pdf format.

https://www22.verizon.com/NROneRetail/NR/rdonlyres/E4DCBC31-804E-491A-A969-F2F85B55174F/0/WASH_HDX_100808.pdf

The official list shows many other HD channels as "coming soon".
I count 15 more HD channels listed as "coming soon" plus the nine premium channels listed in the online guide.
Now the question is will we still get these HD channels while being on the premiere service?

Jim Hef

10-14-08, 08:43 AM

...Now the question is will we still get these HD channels while being on the premiere service?
As I posted previously, I was told that you will lose channels unless you are signed up for the "Extreme HD" tier, even if you are presently viewing them with your package.

jamieva

10-14-08, 10:01 AM

Yes, but why doesn't Verizon make that more clear to the early subscribers? If I weren't on this Forum reading the various threads, I would have one day awakened to no HD channels, and thought that there was a transmission problem, not one of provider nomenclature. Verizon should just roll you over to a similar package, and let you know that there are alternatives available...wouldn't that be simpler and more to the point?

Totally agree. I was not aware of these changes either until I read them here. Most folks that signed up with Fios last year, such as I did, are going to be caught totally unaware of these changes. They're going to have a customer service nightmare when they make these switches in a lot of places.

kes601

10-14-08, 10:19 AM

kbrown127

10-14-08, 10:33 AM

I just changed my plan from the 10/2 and Fios Premier to a bundle with the 20/5 and Extreme HD for $80 a month. I don't need the home phone service, and before I wasn't getting any bundle discount so this is great! Of course that $80 doesn't include any of my add ons, but all in all I think I am saving money with this bundle over what I was paying before.

On a side note, I have a tech coming out tomorrow, because my tv service went out yesterday. I have no video, it just froze up an now neither of my boxes will do anything. We did resets, hard resets, everything. Strange, but I live in a condo an the ONT units are in a centralized room outside that only the cable people can access, and I think something may be going on out there. A little frustrating, and the wierd thing is the internet works fine still...it's just the tv. The tech rep on the phone said that all of the tests show the network and boxes functioning properly, so hopefully they figure it out.

hernanu

10-14-08, 10:37 AM

How will that work for me? I have the 50mbs tier which does not qualify for a bundle. I currently pay $43 for the premiere($70 for phone and TV with the double play bundle)

Will I be able to get a discount for cell, TV, and home phone so the Extreme HD package doesn't increase my price? I'm already paying around $270 a month for all four services.(including Cablecards, HD STB, etc)

I had a non-package internet access (20/20) and decided to switch to 20/5 to fit into a package, since my contract was running out. I was paying about the same as you, probably more for TV since you have the bigger ticket internet. Overall, once all was said and done, my bill dropped by at least $60/mo. I switched to the Extreme HD package on TV, which added $12, but since I already had the sports package, it evened out. I also had the movies package and HBO/Cinemax, bundling those saved me some money, and other bundle benefits lowered the price more.

I would call them, tell them your situation, see if they give you the upgrade to Extreme HD without a price hike for the length of your current contract; if not, then try to get the best deal you can. Given my experience, and others who have replied, I think your bill may drop.

hernanu

10-14-08, 10:41 AM

kbrown127

10-14-08, 10:43 AM

Marcus Carr

10-14-08, 11:17 AM

On IPTV migration: There’s 3 ways to get video from one point to another: There’s analog, which we’re leaving; digital QAM, which is 6 MHz worth of QAM modulation with multiple channels on each; and then there’s IPTV. We’re moving toward IPTV in the interactive VOD world and digital QAM in the broadcast world. We’ll see some overlap happen here as we move some broadcast channels into IPTV -- probably long-tail content initially not the most frequently viewed channels but the ones we still want in broadcast as opposed to interactive because interactive is a transaction – I’m buying something or getting something free off a menu. And long term, broadcast IPTV is more a surfing experience as it is in the current digital QAM world. There’s some migration toward IPTV already for broadcast. In the digital QAM world, we’ll use that capacity for a combination of SD and HD, which is what we have today.

http://telephonyonline.com/access/news/verizon-in-home-lte-iptv-1003/

skipfreely

10-14-08, 01:55 PM

aaronwt

10-14-08, 02:12 PM

As I posted previously, I was told that you will lose channels unless you are signed up for the "Extreme HD" tier, even if you are presently viewing them with your package.

But when will this happen? There is nothing showing me when I will lose anything.

jamieva

10-14-08, 03:25 PM

kes601

10-14-08, 03:29 PM

afiggatt

10-14-08, 04:43 PM

Good grief it's hard to get reliable info from Fios customer service. I just talked to an online chat guy, he's telling me the Extreme HD is available in Richmond now. Ok fine what channels would it add to what I have? he couldn't answer that. We went round and round and I finally gave up. Guy was clueless on how to help me.
If you do not currently subscribe to the Sports package, the HD Extreme package will get you Versus/Golf HD and The Outdoor Channel 2 HD. From what happened in MA & RI, the HD Extreme package will let you keep the next round of national HD channels when they are added: Fox News HD, Travel HD, ABC Family HD, etc.

jamieva

10-14-08, 04:45 PM

Ok thank you. You guys know more about it then their own employees do.

kes601

10-14-08, 04:48 PM

Ok thank you. You guys know more about it then their own employees do.

Here's a pretty good informational piece on the new packages. Another poster and I put it together. Don't take it as gospel, but I think it is very accurate:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21263024-Extreme-HD-and-Essentials-Information

Jim Hef

10-14-08, 05:27 PM

But when will this happen? There is nothing showing me when I will lose anything.
Just call the 800 number and find out!

dtv757

10-14-08, 05:41 PM

URFloorMatt

10-14-08, 06:26 PM

It looks like Verizon did rollups in Ft. Wayne IN and Portland OR today. According to DSL Reports, Fort Wayne has the full ~100HD. What about Portland? Full 100HD?

Also, what's the status of Pittsburgh? Are they at 100HD now too?

kes601

10-14-08, 06:29 PM

URFloorMatt

10-14-08, 06:35 PM

Wow. Big day then. We've crossed the halfway mark in terms of VHOs. Eight of fourteen now have the full ~100HD channels. And it appears that three more are scheduled in the next week or so, with the final three slated for November.

Verizon Channel Realignment & HD Expansion

Completed expansions in plain text.
Upcoming expansions in italics.
Full 100HD expansion in bold.

VHO 01
10/06/08 – North Texas (Realign; ~80HD) (moved up from 10/08/08) >>> Week of 10/20/08? (~100HD)

VHO 02
10/07/08 – Florida Gulf Coast (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 10/02/08) >>> Week of 10/20/08? (~100HD)

VHO 03
10/15/08 – Southern California (Realign; ~100HD) (delayed from 10/09/08)

VHO 04
09/18/08 – Anne Arundel/Howard County MD (Realign; ~40HD)
09/22/08 – Washington Metro (Realign; ~40HD)
09/30/08 – Baltimore MD (Realign; ~40HD)

VHO 05
07/28/08 – New York (Launch; ~100HD)

VHO 06
08/20/08 – Massachusetts (Realign; ~80HD) >>> 10/02/08 (~100 HD)
08/21/08 – Rhode Island (Realign; ~80HD) >>> 10/02/08 (~100 HD)

VHO 07
07/31/08 – Northern NJ (Realign; ~100HD)

VHO 08
08/29/08 – Central NJ (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/08/08 (~80HD)
09/02/08 – Southern DE (Realign; ~80HD)
09/04/08 – Central DE (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/09/08 (~80HD)
09/08/08 – Southern NJ (Realign; ~80HD)
09/08/08 – Northern DE (Realign; ~80HD) (moved up from 09/15/08)
09/10/08 – Mercer Co. NJ (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 08/27/08)
09/11/08 – Southeastern PA (Realign; ~80HD)

VHO 09
08/13/08 – Richmond VA (Realign; ~40HD)
08/14/08 – Hampton Roads VA (Realign; ~40HD)

VHO 10
06/30/08 – Fort Wayne IN (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/14/08 (~100HD)

VHO 11
08/12/08 – Pittsburgh PA (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 08/06/08) >>> 10/14/08 (~100HD)

VHO 12
07/21/08 – Portland OR (Realign; ~40HD) >>> 10/14/08 (~100HD)

VHO 13
08/23/08 – Seattle WA (Launch; ~100HD)

VHO 14
09/15/08 – Buffalo NY (Launch; ~100HD)

AlbertA

10-14-08, 06:48 PM

Here's a pretty good informational piece on the new packages. Another poster and I put it together. Don't take it as gospel, but I think it is very accurate:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21263024-Extreme-HD-and-Essentials-Information

What!!!??? No FX-HD!!! Farken Bastages!!!

Please let us know the final cost of switching to the extreme HD package, I read people saying they'll charge the ETF. I'm specially interested for those in the Triple Freedom package.

kes601

10-14-08, 06:51 PM

What!!!??? No FX-HD!!! Farken Bastages!!!

Please let us know the final cost of switching to the extreme HD package, I read people saying they'll charge the ETF. I'm specially interested for those in the Triple Freedom package.

No ETF if you are just switching packages. You will need to call and find out the cost for your area.

Dmon4u

10-14-08, 08:04 PM

For those in Central PA your ' HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA CHANNEL LINEUP ' is now available:

https://www22.verizon.com/NROneRetail/NR/rdonlyres/529B6EE4-E86A-4DE8-BA04-6E32E0DB9BD0/0/HARRIS_HDX_100808.pdf

Franke46

10-14-08, 08:06 PM

maxman

10-14-08, 08:22 PM

FIOS here today for the first time. I'm already signed up for install on the 22nd. 85 HD channels compared with 25 from Comcast. Woo hoo! Any advice please PM me - thanks!

AbMagFab

10-14-08, 08:27 PM

FIOS here today for the first time. I'm already signed up for install on the 22nd. Woo hoo! Any advice please PM me - thanks!

Ask them when DC/MD will get more than 40 HD channels...

gluvhand

10-14-08, 09:20 PM

What!!!??? No FX-HD!!! Farken Bastages!!!

Please let us know the final cost of switching to the extreme HD package, I read people saying they'll charge the ETF. I'm specially interested for those in the Triple Freedom package.

Here in NY I went from Triple Freedom with Premier to Triple Freedom with Extreme HD and they didn't raise the price at all. I found that dealing with Customer Service during the day was alot easier and informative. The night shift wasn't helpful and just flatout wrong in many cases. And no ETF.

pwiss

10-14-08, 10:13 PM

First of all I have to say that Verizon rocks! They just added the full package in Portland. I was paying 42.99 for Fios premier, 15.99 for Movies and Sports and 57.99 for 20/5 Internet. I don't have home phone service. I called and changed to the Verizon Flex plan which gives the Extreme HD package plus the 20/5 Internet for 74.99. Now I am not sure if I will get the Movies package included in the new price(I think it is grandfathered in) but by my calculations I will be getting 32 more HD channels than I just had and paying 41.98 less per month!

SQUIDWARD360

10-14-08, 10:29 PM

Ask them when DC/MD will get more than 40 HD channels...

They need to start giving us a credit at some point.

Five Hole

10-14-08, 10:33 PM

I just switched from Premier/internet(5/2) to the bundled extreme/internet(20/5) package. How long does it take to go into effect?

hernanu

10-14-08, 10:36 PM

Darin,

I very much appreciate your back and forth with beachComber. Anyone willing to read this boards is above and beyond the regular TV user and should not try to set up limits as to how far others should go.

I will cancell HBO and Cinemax this weekend because of this blocking issue. The rest I will likely keep as I don't have time to go TV service shopping right now. But I will be watching for those DirecTV mailers and who knows, maybe I will pay the cancellation fee in December.

One thing worth exploring is if the on demand HD movies look the same. They did on cable HD on demand, plenty of legos on screen.

Oh and one more thing. I have seen macroblocking on a blu-ray player (PS3), playing ice age on a very expensive PJ. Who knows, maybe the perfect picture doesn't really exist except in the retailer's demo rooms. I will keep searching for it and whoever gets it right will get my money.

Franke46

Your frustration is understandable, have you had your signal strength checked?

There's nothing wrong with wanting the best, I think FIOS is that for broadcast services, but if after checking the signal strength, you still are not satisfied, maybe you are very sensitive to the blocking, especially if you see it on a blu-ray player that is considered the best. Again, nothing wrong with that, we all in this area are pretty demanding of our gear.

Good luck, in the meanwhile, enjoy the service if you keep it.

billnj

10-14-08, 10:50 PM

I just switched from Premier/internet(5/2) to the bundled extreme/internet(20/5) package. How long does it take to go into effect?

Should be less than 24 hours. Go to www.speakeasy.net and do the speed test from the closest city to you to check your speed.

jamieva

10-14-08, 10:57 PM

Looks like I'll being going to Extreme once it's rolled out in Richmond, I have to have Speed HD.

darinp2

10-15-08, 01:22 AM

I don't have a signal meter here and haven't called to get Verizon out at this point, but I found something on the web about how to get into a service menu on the 6416 I have from Verizon. The one where just after pushing the power button to power the unit off, you hit the select button twice. I found that as setup with a 2 way splitter (one side for the internet and one for the one DVR I have) I got the following (these are approximate and can jump around some):

OOB Status: SNR: 23.6 db
Inband Status: SNR: 35.4 db

I also was getting a few correctable errors and didn't notice any uncorrectable errors. And it was reporting the SNR as Good.

The splitter that was on there shows -3.5 db. I swapped it out for an 8 way splitter I have which shows -10.5 db. Then I got:

OOB Status: SNR: 22 db
Inband Status: SNR: 34 db

In this case one of the Inband status fields for SNR showed Fair sometimes and Good other times. It was also getting thousands of correctable errors for the last 5 seconds at times. I didn't notice any uncorrectable errors.

I went back to the 2 way splitter, but this time added a 2nd 2 way splitter that shows -3.5 db to the DVR side. Then I got:

OOB Status: SNR: 22.7 to 25.0 db
Inband Status: SNR: 35.5 - 36.4 db

I'm not sure why this one seemed to change more or be higher than with just the one 2 way splitter (maybe things vary with time), but it was also reporting Good for the Inband status SNR. I saw some correctable errors, but not many.

I have a TIVO coming on Friday and it sounds like Verizon would have to come out to install a Cablecard. Maybe I can get them to check signal strength with one of their meters if that is necessary.

From what this 6416 is reporting it doesn't sound to me like I have a problem with the signal strength being too high, but I'm new to this part and not familiar with what they report when it is too high.

--Darin

fritz1

10-15-08, 03:59 AM

Just got Fios installed yesterday took about 7 hours the installer was helpful picture is great, better than Dish on most channels aside from audio sync issues on some channels
it rocks, channel changing is much faster than Dish I got the 7216 1 DVR

gdeep

10-15-08, 09:38 AM

AbMagFab

10-15-08, 09:56 AM

fritz1

10-15-08, 10:37 AM

BeachComber

10-15-08, 10:40 AM

For Tivo's the ideal SNR seems to be around 32. So it does look a little hot. If you get excessive device pixellation (i.e. RC Uncorrected), then you might want to attenuate the signal down to closer to 32. Signal Strength is irrelevant until it drops below like 45% or so.

Signal to Noise really isn't too "hot". Signal could be. Signal to noise would never be described at too hot. I would keep Signal to Noise as high as I could get it. Signal Strength is where you get too hot to overload the input circuits.

fritz1

10-15-08, 11:43 AM

afiggatt

10-15-08, 11:53 AM

The posts at dslreports confirm that Southern CA got the channel re-alignment this morning and a lot of new HD channels. The PDF channel line-up for southern CA on the Verizon website has been updated. The PDF line-up now shows the full set of ~100 HD channels with no coming soon flags. Looking for someone in CA to confirm whether they actually have the full HD set or whether some of the channels are not available yet.

With Southern CA getting the re-alignment today, the great Fios TV re-alignment of 2008 is finally complete. Fios TV is all digital with no legacy analog channels to take up bandwidth and confuse people who then post here asking whether they can hook up their old analog TV and get some channels. Now we wait for the ~100 HD channels to roll-out to all the markets. And figure out the new pricing packages. And get back to complaining the accuracy of the guide data, the small 160 GB drive in the DVR, when will Verizon add the xxxx HD RSN for their market, when will Verizon make the Dolans an offer they can't refuse and get xxx-HD channel added in the NY market, when will the IMG bugs be fixed, and so on. :D

AbMagFab

10-15-08, 11:53 AM

Signal to Noise really isn't too "hot". Signal could be. Signal to noise would never be described at too hot. I would keep Signal to Noise as high as I could get it. Signal Strength is where you get too hot to overload the input circuits.

Whatever you want to do is up to you. Extensive documented testing has proven that attenuating the signal to get a SNR to ~32 fixes Tivo pixellation problems resulting from too hot a signal.

You asked, I gave you a proven response, and you rejected it because you appear to know better. Not sure why you asked in the first place.

FredB

10-15-08, 12:03 PM

PorcupineCuddler

10-15-08, 12:49 PM

Got 100+ channels in Temecula this morning. The only one showing as "currently unavailable" is Versus/Golf.

kbrown127

10-15-08, 01:48 PM

I had that a couple of times and found a reply that said to:

1. disconnect power from your STB.
2. disconnect the cable from your stb.
3. wait 45 seconds.
4. reconnect the cable.
5. reconnect the power.

That cleared up the problem for me. It may have something to do with the IP addressing on the MoCa setup. Only thing I can think of.

That didn't work last night, and I found out why when the Fios Tech came this morning. Here is the story:

I live in a condo, so my ONT is in a centralized "cable/phone" room that serves the entire building, not just my unit. He traced the coax and went out there to check it out. He came back in and called me over there to see something. He grabs this dangling cable that is marked with an address that doesn't exist in our building...each cable is marked with the address so the cable guys know what is what out there. So basically, somebody went into that room, unplugged my fios cable, and switched the address labels on it. Only certain people can access this room: Verizon techs and Cox techs. The Fios guy said he has seen this at other condos before as well, and just wanted me to know that it wasn't anything with their service that went wrong. Sure enough he plugged it back in and everything is up and running just like that!

Some shady cable guy didn't like my recent switch I suppose, but all is good now. If it happens again, I'll know what to look for.

hernanu

10-15-08, 01:53 PM

Maybe I spoke too soon, I have HDMI going to TV and optical going to NAD receiver, tried Coax digital too, when I first power the DVR (7216) I get noise through my home theater, HDMI to TV is OK I have to go to audio format and highlight a setting, surround or stereo, I also tried mono and that gives me the same noise, the setting does not change to mono by itself but remains on what I set it but I just have to highlight the stereo or surround it comes back
without even hitting OK

The rep from Verizon told me after checking with other techs that the optical port is not enabled and that it shouldn't even work, that didn't make sense, then he said to try the other digital out (Coax) it did the same thing, I called back and spoke to another rep he tried to reset it didn't help and that was the end of the road no further trouble shooting, and said I may go out and buy another box from another manufacturer if they make them but I had no plans on that

sorry for the long post but this is the second disappointment in Motorola boxes my first was a couple of years ago with Comcast

Didn't have this problem, but I did have one HD-DVR (Mother in law's) that emitted a humming noise, very annoying. I just called Verizon and told them of the problem, that I was a new install and I wanted a technician out here to clean this up. One showed up two days later and swapped out the unit. It's been perfect since. Don't go into debug (and annoyed) mode, just get them to your house and swap the thing. You're paying for a service and they should deliver it without too much inconvenience. I've had good dealings with V*, but I never allow something like this to fester.

On the optical output, this is from the 7200 series user guide:

There are several options available for audio connections to your A/V receiver:
• Digital audio (OPTICAL S/PDIF)
• Digital audio (COAXIAL S/PDIF)
• Stereo audio (AUDIO L AND R)
• HDMI

If your A/V receiver supports it, the optical (OPTICAL S/PDIF), coaxial (S/PDIF), or HDMI audio outputs may be used in place of the stereo audio outputs (AUDIO L and R). In most cases these outputs offer a higher level of audio quality, including support for Dolby Digital 5.1 audio.
• Digital audio optical (S/PDIF) — Connect the optical cable to the digital audio optical connector on the QIP receiver and the optical connector on the A/V receiver.
• Digital audio coaxial (S/PDIF) — Connect the digital audio cable to the digital audio connector on the QIP receiver and the DIGITAL INPUT COAX connector on the A/V receiver.

I know the 6200 series boxes I use have the optical output enabled (because I use it) so he is not properly informed. Ask them for a new box and a technician.

cschang

10-15-08, 02:44 PM

Quote: "Looking for someone in CA to confirm whether they actually have the full HD set or whether some of the channels are not available yet."

I checked before leaving for work. No channel re-alignment as of 6:30 AM.
I got the re-alignment this morning. Called support as I noticed that some channels were unavailable and was told of the new packages. Signed up for the Extreme pack. Bottomline, more HD and movie channels, as well as 20/5 internet service, and I will be paying less.

Cmdr007

10-15-08, 03:02 PM

Looks like I'll being going to Extreme once it's rolled out in Richmond, I have to have Speed HD.

Do we have the date that Richmond will get the new channels yet? I am dying to have Fox News and Fox Business HD!

jamieva

10-15-08, 03:40 PM

I thought I saw first week of November

jwheeler

10-15-08, 03:49 PM

I got the re-alignment this morning. Called support as I noticed that some channels were unavailable and was told of the new packages. Signed up for the Extreme pack. Bottomline, more HD and movie channels, as well as 20/5 internet service, and I will be paying less.

Just curious how much you will be paying? I have the extreme pack + HBO, Starz and Showtime, a 6416 DVR, 6200 HD box and a SD box. I will actually end up at around $125.00 before tax which is a few dollars more than befor but they did bump my speed up to 20/5 from 15/2 and I get a credit for the cost of the SD box. How does this jive with the rest out there?

cschang

10-15-08, 04:01 PM

Just curious how much you will be paying? I have the extreme pack + HBO, Starz and Showtime, a 6416 DVR, 6200 HD box and a SD box. I will actually end up at around $125.00 before tax which is a few dollars more than befor but they did bump my speed up to 20/5 from 15/2 and I get a credit for the cost of the SD box. How does this jive with the rest out there?
Lets see...I have the Extreme pack, with all movie channels, and sports pack, the HD DVR, one SD box, and 20/5.....my total is $136

TRUE2LABLUE

10-15-08, 04:04 PM

kbrown127

10-15-08, 04:25 PM

The NEW HD channels are up and running in Oxnard, CA and I just switched to the Extreme HD bundle package

ONE PROBLEM

Anyone else notice that FSN & FSN Prime Ticket are saying "Not Authorized"

Anyone know why these channels are not working ???

When I switched the Golf/VS HD and Outdoor HD weren't working, so I called and they did a box refresh to fix it. Maybe that will help.

URFloorMatt

10-15-08, 04:38 PM

I thought I saw first week of November

That's what others in the know have suggested as well. I've added speculated dates for the next (final?) set of additions. While it seems pretty certain that everyone will receive a roll up in November, it is not clear that VA/DC/MD and Hampton Roads/Richmond VA will get bumped to the full 100HD.

Verizon Channel Realignment & HD Expansion

Completed expansions in plain text.
Upcoming expansions in italics.
Full 100HD expansion in bold.

VHO 01
10/06/08 – North Texas (Realign; ~80HD) (moved up from 10/08/08) >>> Week of 10/20/08 (~100HD)

VHO 02
10/07/08 – Florida Gulf Coast (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 10/02/08) >>> Week of 10/20/08 (~100HD)

VHO 03
10/15/08 – Southern California (Realign; ~100HD) (delayed from 10/09/08)

VHO 04 >>> 100HD in Late November?
09/18/08 – Anne Arundel/Howard County MD (Realign; ~40HD)
09/22/08 – Washington Metro (Realign; ~40HD)
09/30/08 – Baltimore MD (Realign; ~40HD)

VHO 05
07/28/08 – New York (Launch; ~100HD)

VHO 06
08/20/08 – Massachusetts (Realign; ~80HD) >>> 10/02/08 (~100 HD)
08/21/08 – Rhode Island (Realign; ~80HD) >>> 10/02/08 (~100 HD)

VHO 07
07/31/08 – Northern NJ (Realign; ~100HD)

VHO 08 >>> 100HD in Mid-November?
08/29/08 – Central NJ (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/08/08 (~80HD)
09/02/08 – Southern DE (Realign; ~80HD)
09/04/08 – Central DE (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/09/08 (~80HD)
09/08/08 – Southern NJ (Realign; ~80HD)
09/08/08 – Northern DE (Realign; ~80HD) (moved up from 09/15/08)
09/10/08 – Mercer Co. NJ (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 08/27/08)
09/11/08 – Southeastern PA (Realign; ~80HD)

VHO 09 >>> 100HD Week of 11/03/08?
08/13/08 – Richmond VA (Realign; ~40HD)
08/14/08 – Hampton Roads VA (Realign; ~40HD)

VHO 10
06/30/08 – Fort Wayne IN (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/14/08 (~100HD)

VHO 11
08/12/08 – Pittsburgh PA (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 08/06/08) >>> 10/14/08 (~100HD)

VHO 12
07/21/08 – Portland OR (Realign; ~40HD) >>> 10/14/08 (~100HD)

VHO 13
08/23/08 – Seattle WA (Launch; ~100HD)

VHO 14
09/15/08 – Buffalo NY (Launch; ~100HD)

ieko

10-15-08, 04:48 PM

The NEW HD channels are up and running in Oxnard, CA and I just switched to the Extreme HD bundle package

ONE PROBLEM

Anyone else notice that FSN & FSN Prime Ticket are saying "Not Authorized"

Anyone know why these channels are not working ???
Prime Ticket and FSWest work for me here in Torrance.

AbMagFab

10-15-08, 04:51 PM

That's what others in the know have suggested as well. I've added speculated dates for the next (final?) set of additions. While it seems pretty certain that everyone will receive a roll up in November, it is not clear that VA/DC/MD and Hampton Roads/Richmond VA will get bumped to the full 100HD.

As my doomsday predictions have been saying all along, we won't see 100HD until 2009... End of November is the end of anything happening this year, so if not then, it won't be until 2009.

URFloorMatt

10-15-08, 04:58 PM

Possibly. The good news is that, even if you're right, the shift to adding non-premiums before the HBO/Cinemax networks first is probably a signal we won't get left in the dust on new additions that are supposed to be coming in November (allegedly, NBA TV and NHL Network) and presumably in December (when several new channels are supposed to launch).

One would hope that, following the completion of the roll up, all future channel additions by Verizon will happen simultaneously on a nationwide basis, just like USA, CNBC, and ESPNU.

darinp2

10-15-08, 05:09 PM

You asked, I gave you a proven response, and you rejected it because you appear to know better. Not sure why you asked in the first place.I think you mixed up who had posted what as this response from you was to BeachComber (unless BeachComber asked you something earlier I didn't see).

--Darin

coyoteaz

10-15-08, 05:38 PM

HD expansion live here in North Texas. Had to play CSR roulette to find one who could actually activate Extreme, but all 59 non-premium channels are active.

URFloorMatt

10-15-08, 05:56 PM

So North Texas is now at the full 100 HD channels?

fritz1

10-15-08, 05:57 PM

Didn't have this problem, but I did have one HD-DVR (Mother in law's) that emitted a humming noise, very annoying. I just called Verizon and told them of the problem, that I was a new install and I wanted a technician out here to clean this up. One showed up two days later and swapped out the unit. It's been perfect since. Don't go into debug (and annoyed) mode, just get them to your house and swap the thing. You're paying for a service and they should deliver it without too much inconvenience. I've had good dealings with V*, but I never allow something like this to fester.

On the optical output, this is from the 7200 series user guide:

There are several options available for audio connections to your A/V receiver:
• Digital audio (OPTICAL S/PDIF)
• Digital audio (COAXIAL S/PDIF)
• Stereo audio (AUDIO L AND R)
• HDMI

If your A/V receiver supports it, the optical (OPTICAL S/PDIF), coaxial (S/PDIF), or HDMI audio outputs may be used in place of the stereo audio outputs (AUDIO L and R). In most cases these outputs offer a higher level of audio quality, including support for Dolby Digital 5.1 audio.
• Digital audio optical (S/PDIF) — Connect the optical cable to the digital audio optical connector on the QIP receiver and the optical connector on the A/V receiver.
• Digital audio coaxial (S/PDIF) — Connect the digital audio cable to the digital audio connector on the QIP receiver and the DIGITAL INPUT COAX connector on the A/V receiver.

I know the 6200 series boxes I use have the optical output enabled (because I use it) so he is not properly informed. Ask them for a new box and a technician.

Thanks, apparently several people had this same issue http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21271213-Audio-problem-QIP-7216?r=560
after you cycle the power some suggested to leave it on always or run optical audio from the TV to your receiver if your TV passes HDMI audio through in DD that worked for me but Verizon has no clue they say there are no known issues

PS Motorolla said all they can do is give me a link to the operating manual oh yeh that was helpful

fritz1

10-15-08, 06:04 PM

Thanks, apparently several people had this same issue http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21271213-Audio-problem-QIP-7216?r=560
after you cycle the power some suggested to leave it on always or run optical audio from the TV to your receiver if your TV passes HDMI audio through in DD that worked for me but Verizon has no clue they say there are no known issues

PS Motorolla said all they can do is give me a link to the operating manual oh yeh that was helpful

Sorry posted the wrong link here we go

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21106500-7216-DVR-Digital-Audio-lost-after-power-cycle

kes601

10-15-08, 06:05 PM

Unlike some here, I still think the entire VA/MD area will get the full 100 rollout. I don't put much faith in the printed lineups that are on the Vz site. They posted one for Pittsburgh the same day as they posted the updated one for us. The one they posted for Pittsburgh was also without the HBO/Cinemax HDs, and then 4 or 5 days later Pittsburgh has the entire 100 HD lineup.

vfrjim

10-15-08, 06:53 PM

hernanu

10-15-08, 06:56 PM

That didn't work last night, and I found out why when the Fios Tech came this morning. Here is the story:

I live in a condo, so my ONT is in a centralized "cable/phone" room that serves the entire building, not just my unit. He traced the coax and went out there to check it out. He came back in and called me over there to see something. He grabs this dangling cable that is marked with an address that doesn't exist in our building...each cable is marked with the address so the cable guys know what is what out there. So basically, somebody went into that room, unplugged my fios cable, and switched the address labels on it. Only certain people can access this room: Verizon techs and Cox techs. The Fios guy said he has seen this at other condos before as well, and just wanted me to know that it wasn't anything with their service that went wrong. Sure enough he plugged it back in and everything is up and running just like that!

Some shady cable guy didn't like my recent switch I suppose, but all is good now. If it happens again, I'll know what to look for.

Pretty sleazy. Glad you got your service back.

coyoteaz

10-15-08, 07:21 PM

So North Texas is now at the full 100 HD channels?
60 in Extreme + 42 premiums by my count.

Ron2

10-15-08, 08:28 PM

Kes601- I sure hope you're correct. The only problem that I have with Vz. is their inability (lack of concern?) to keep the customer informed. All one has to do is read this forum to see the lack of commication that we receive from a "Comminications Co."

rentz

10-15-08, 09:25 PM

HD expansion live here in North Texas. Had to play CSR roulette to find one who could actually activate Extreme, but all 59 non-premium channels are active.

thats what i was afraid of, ive only had fios about 2.5 months and ive already had to call about billing issues a few times, now i have to call to get more channels because my package doesnt exist even though im in a 2yr contract.

jamieva

10-15-08, 09:33 PM

You can really see the growing pains of how they don't communicate well the changes they make as a company new to this channel of business.

bvader

10-15-08, 11:09 PM

jamieva

10-15-08, 11:19 PM

BeachComber

10-16-08, 12:07 AM

Whatever you want to do is up to you. Extensive documented testing has proven that attenuating the signal to get a SNR to ~32 fixes Tivo pixellation problems resulting from too hot a signal.

You asked, I gave you a proven response, and you rejected it because you appear to know better. Not sure why you asked in the first place.

No I did not ask. Apparently you don't know what Signal to Noise is, to think that there is any good down by DECREASING the Signal to Noise. This is the equivalant of saying that you need to bury a water pipe 6 feet down to be below the frostline. If you decide to bury the water pipe 10 feet down, it does absolutely no harm. Ditto with Signal to Noise - the higher the number is down, the better it is.

What you are suggesting is if a water pipe is buried 10 feet down, you need to move up to 6 feet down.

HDntheCity

10-16-08, 03:57 AM

Here's a great example of what I mean with their communication.

http://www22.verizon.com/residential/fiostv

See the HD logos scroll? Well one of the first ones is ESPNnews HD. I have not seen anything that shows this is in the Extreme package.

it's in the new .pdf format ch listing for our area. when the phase 2 rollout comes we'll get it.

the real issue is what happens with existing subs.

I'm playing it safe & upgrading to Extreme HD next week.

jeepmatt

10-16-08, 08:06 AM

Folks in VA/MD, fear not. You will get the 100 HD's. Just as we will in the Philly region next month.

There is QUITE a lot of work to do to get these up and running, and apparently it was the corporate decision on the full rollout to do our areas last. (Someone has to be....)

Why they'd do the region of the corporate HQ of the largest cable co in the country last I don't know...but that's another question for another day. Right now we're at 87 HD's...i'm a happy boy. I can wait another month.

We just got the 1.6 IMG today - it's fantastic. I can finally stream HD programming from my DVR to the HD STB in my bedroom.

It's a good time to be a FIOS TV subscriber.

AbMagFab

10-16-08, 09:26 AM

AbMagFab

10-16-08, 09:29 AM

No I did not ask. Apparently you don't know what Signal to Noise is, to think that there is any good down by DECREASING the Signal to Noise. This is the equivalant of saying that you need to bury a water pipe 6 feet down to be below the frostline. If you decide to bury the water pipe 10 feet down, it does absolutely no harm. Ditto with Signal to Noise - the higher the number is down, the better it is.

What you are suggesting is if a water pipe is buried 10 feet down, you need to move up to 6 feet down.

You're a funny guy... I love the folks who argue reality with theory...

Good luck getting things working!

Jim Hef

10-16-08, 09:34 AM

...We just got the 1.6 IMG today - it's fantastic....
Thanks for the heads up...we finally have the cast listing back within the 'info' on the Guide!

DiskDude

10-16-08, 09:52 AM

Lets see...I have the Extreme pack, with all movie channels, and sports pack, the HD DVR, one SD box, and 20/5.....my total is $136

I just resubscribed after taking the summer off. Had Comcast for a couple of months and had forgotten how much better the FIOS guide, DVR and picture really are in this area. I signed up for the Extreme Bundle + Movies, 20/5 Internet, Phone, 1 HD Home Media DVR, and 1 HD Box for about $135/mo before taxes. This includes HBO/Max for a month for free, and the DVR free for a year. I also was promised a '3 for 2' bill credit of $35/mo for the first three months. I never could get the online signup to work correctly so I couldn't get the $10/mo online credit they were offering but the 3 for 2 deal works out within $5 for a 1 year agreement. If I pro-rate the $115 total credit over the year the monthly rate without HBO/Max is about $126/mo before taxes.

GregAnnapolis

10-16-08, 11:16 AM

We're at 40HD. If I were at 87HD, it would be easier to be happy about it, and easier to believe it would get done.

At this point, I have no hope we'll go from 40 to 100 by the end of the year. And we're a top-10 market, for goodness sake!
The DC/MD/VA area almost positively *IS* getting their HD channels in the next four weeks. The reason for lack of communication is the same as always -- if for some reason it gets delayed, people freak out. They're coming this year. Hang in there.

GregAnnapolis

10-16-08, 11:19 AM

You're a funny guy... I love the folks who argue reality with theory...

Good luck getting things working!
There is a difference between 'signal strength' and 'signal-to-noise ratio'. I think that's all he was trying to say -- albeit in a somewhat roundabout manner.

jamieva

10-16-08, 11:42 AM

stevec325

10-16-08, 11:43 AM

Imagine this discussion was about a hose...

Signal Strength is how much water is coming through the hose, or rather the force and quantity of water coming through the hose.

SNR is the ratio of water to dirt contained in the stream coming through the hose.

Applied to electronics...

Some electronics cannot properly handle too much signal (water) coming down the wire (hose). And if there is not enough signal (water) coming through the wire (hose), that too causes problems. So, it is important to make sure that the signal is not either too "hot" or too "weak".

However....

ALL electronics WANT the least amount of noise (dirt) contained in the signal (water). So, you always want the best possible SNR. You would NEVER want to cause any extra noise (dirt) to be mixed in with your signal (water).

GregAnnapolis

10-16-08, 11:56 AM

stevec325, thanks, that's a pretty good analogy!

JayMan007

10-16-08, 12:01 PM

I went and upgraded to Extreme HD this morning so whenever they do the rollout in Richmond I'll get them. Plus it boosts me up on the internet speed, get the DVR free for 3 months, and I'm paying basically the same amount as I was on Premiere when I first signed up.

You were able to get the DVR free for 3 months?
The Ad says 1 year. Is that the MR-DVR?

I'm also in Richmond, and have been thinking of changing to the Extreme triple play. Currently getting the Movie/Sports pack free for remainder of the year.

kes601

10-16-08, 12:07 PM

You were able to get the DVR free for 3 months?
The Ad says 1 year. Is that the MR-DVR?

I'm also in Richmond, and have been thinking of changing to the Extreme triple play. Currently getting the Movie/Sports pack free for remainder of the year.

Since IMG 1.6 has been released I think they are pushing the MRDVR more and I believe you qualify for the 90 days free offer. I think you can actually sign up via the remote. Just select the Home Media option in the DVR Menu.

maxman

10-16-08, 12:10 PM

I'm being installed next week. The website lists 85 HD channels for my (South Jersey) area, but when I called this morning they told me I'd be getting 100 or more. Anyone know which is correct, 85 or 100+?

rickypicky

10-16-08, 12:22 PM

The DC/MD/VA area almost positively *IS* getting their HD channels in the next four weeks.

How do you know this? I'm not trying to be an a$$hole, but seriously, how do you know this? Do you have some inside info you can share? :)

jeepmatt

10-16-08, 12:25 PM

maxman

10-16-08, 12:27 PM

Maxman-
You'll get 87 HD's right now. We'll be over 100 by mid-November.

Thanks jeepmatt. Do you know what the additional channels will be?

JayMan007

10-16-08, 12:32 PM

Since IMG 1.6 has been released I think they are pushing the MRDVR more and I believe you qualify for the 90 days free offer. I think you can actually sign up via the remote. Just select the Home Media option in the DVR Menu.

Any word on when we will get the updated 1.6 (06.89) - currently have 06.86.
I hear there are some PQ issues with SD channels after the .89 update though.

GregAnnapolis

10-16-08, 12:45 PM

How do you know this? I'm not trying to be an a$$hole, but seriously, how do you know this? Do you have some inside info you can share? :)
I knew this would come up. :) And I know you're not trying to be rude, no worries. I wouldn't trust me either. ;) Only kidding, of course.

Let's just say that you're on the right track, but I myself definitely do not work for Verizon. That being said, the target is "mid-November".

URFloorMatt

10-16-08, 12:58 PM

At this point, I have no hope we'll go from 40 to 100 by the end of the year. And we're a top-10 market, for goodness sake!

Portland went from 40 to 100 a couple days ago.

Jim Hef

10-16-08, 01:37 PM

You're making me thirsty!

kes601

10-16-08, 01:52 PM

Portland went from 40 to 100 a couple days ago.

As did Ft Wayne and Pitt.

JimsArcade

10-16-08, 02:48 PM

stevec325

10-16-08, 02:51 PM

IMG 1.6 rolled out in SE PA last night.

I don't know about anyone else, but it seriously messed up my box. It crashes about once an hour, and audio gets dropped if anything affecting the display is changed: time-slip, channel change, DVR access, etc. The only way to get it back is to change the audio to 'mono' then change it back to 'stereo' or 'surround' every time you try to view anything different. Time to give Verizon a call, I guess. :(

I was part of the roll out.

Apart from a few minor glitches with the Favorites and the couple of reboots during use (which they said would happen at first)... everything else seems OK.

I haven't experienced any audio problems. Please elaborate... HDMI? 7XXX DVR? 6XXX DVR?

JWhip

10-16-08, 03:27 PM

IMG 1.6 rolled out in SE PA last night.

I don't know about anyone else, but it seriously messed up my box. It crashes about once an hour, and audio gets dropped if anything affecting the display is changed: time-slip, channel change, DVR access, etc. The only way to get it back is to change the audio to 'mono' then change it back to 'stereo' or 'surround' every time you try to view anything different. Time to give Verizon a call, I guess. :(

Jim , my DVR was messed up this morning with an errror code on the front panel. The box wouldn't work. I unplugged the power cord from the back and let it sit a couple on minutes. When I plugged it back in, it worked fine with 1.6 installed perfectly. No issues since.

JayMan007

10-16-08, 03:28 PM

As did Ft Wayne and Pitt.

Isn't everyone at ~100 except VHO8 (~80) & VHO4 & 9 (~40)?
Not sure about Florida.
And those 3 are scheduled for Nov.

kes601

10-16-08, 03:43 PM

Isn't everyone at ~100 except VHO8 (~80) & VHO4 & 9 (~40)?
Not sure about Florida.
And those 3 are scheduled for Nov.

I believe that is correct.

PorcupineCuddler

10-16-08, 04:00 PM

There is discussion about that in this thread on DSLReports:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21119105-NHL-Center-Ice~start=40#end

Still no news on NHL Center Ice...
My money is going to DirecTV by this weekend. I just can't blindly wait forever.

maxman

10-16-08, 04:02 PM

Isn't everyone at ~100 except VHO8 (~80) & VHO4 & 9 (~40)?
Not sure about Florida.
And those 3 are scheduled for Nov.

Where is this information found?

jeepmatt

10-16-08, 04:15 PM

Still no news on NHL Center Ice...
My money is going to DirecTV by this weekend. I just can't blindly wait forever.

Porcupine-
Check your Private messages.

jamieva

10-16-08, 04:19 PM

I was looking at the Verizon forums (forums.verizon.com) and they said no NHL Center Ice this season. No NBA league pass either.

gdeep

10-16-08, 04:19 PM

Porcupine-
Check your Private messages.

Do you have any info on this?

jeepmatt

10-16-08, 04:34 PM

Isn't everyone at ~100 except VHO8 (~80) & VHO4 & 9 (~40)?
Not sure about Florida.
And those 3 are scheduled for Nov.

VHO8 is officially set for 11/17

aaronwt

10-16-08, 04:46 PM

What about the DC area(VHO4)?

URFloorMatt

10-16-08, 04:52 PM

VHO8 is officially set for 11/17

All of it? All at once? That's good news if so.

DCFan

10-16-08, 04:52 PM

What about the DC area(VHO4)?

When I was ordering the Extreme HD bundle package this past weekend the CSR told me the end of November. :)

kes601

10-16-08, 05:01 PM

VHO9 is set for first week of November, I don't have an official exact date though.

BeachComber

10-16-08, 05:20 PM

You're a funny guy... I love the folks who argue reality with theory...

Good luck getting things working!

Things work great for me!!!!

Don't need any luck

Thanks for reminding me why its better not to try and be nice explaining simple basics such as signal to noise principals to people on AVS.

darinp2, if you have constant 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - heck, even a 50, 75 or 100 in the Signal to Noise (though 37-38 is the most you will see in reality), you will find no no difference in the macroblocking on your TV, regardless of what others might think they know about Signal to Noise, which is totally different than signal level.

There is a difference between 'signal strength' and 'signal-to-noise ratio'. I think that's all he was trying to say -- albeit in a somewhat roundabout manner.

I explained that in an earlier post which he also ignored. You are correct that he doesn't get it.

NEVER[/B] want to cause any extra noise (dirt) to be mixed in with your signal (water).

a certain poster in this thread obviously does - in his words "I love the folks who argue reality with theory". I guess he likes drinking mud.

ieko

10-16-08, 05:37 PM

Now that Verizon is finishing up the 100HD roll out, I wonder if they'll consider putting up all the RSN's nationally like satellite providers do?

kes601

10-16-08, 05:46 PM

Now that Verizon is finishing up the 100HD roll out, I wonder if they'll consider putting up all the RSN's nationally like satellite providers do?

They can't. Different rules apply to cable franchises, they can only supply their "local" regional sports networks.

URFloorMatt

10-16-08, 07:27 PM

Isn't everyone at ~100 except VHO8 (~80) & VHO4 & 9 (~40)?
Not sure about Florida.
And those 3 are scheduled for Nov.

No one from Florida has posted to confirm a launch of the final 15 channels. I notice that the Florida Gulf Coast PDF now lists the full 100 HD channels without the "Coming Soon" label, so I'd bet they'll wake up to new channels tomorrow.

jeepmatt

10-17-08, 06:10 AM

DC/MD should have the next "rollout" of HD's on 11/13.

Not sure officially of entire content.

jeepmatt

10-17-08, 06:25 AM

Okay,
I was waiting for today, however, as I was alluding to in previous posts, YES, Center Ice has arrived on FIOS TV!

This morning, I have "Coming Soon" sports channels in the IMG from 1475 - 1488 out of VHO8.

These will be for Center Ice. Ordering will be available next Wednesday, 10/22. All VHO's should see these show up by the end of next week.

At this time, it does not appear that the GAME-HD high def channel will be included.

I hope this makes some folks happy!

PS - NHL Network (SD and HD) should arrive in November as a nice compliment.

maxman

10-17-08, 08:25 AM

Can someone point me to a list of channels in the rollout please? Thanks!

kes601

10-17-08, 08:36 AM

Can someone point me to a list of channels in the rollout please? Thanks!

https://www22.verizon.com/Residential/FiOSTV/PopUps/ChannelLineUpPDF/ChannelLineUpPDF.htm

Keep in mind, those of us w/o the full rollout yet, your area may not show the entire 100 HDs as "coming soon" (not all premiums are shown), however the Pittsburgh lineup was the same way and they got the full 100 channels earlier this week.

maxman

10-17-08, 08:50 AM

https://www22.verizon.com/Residential/FiOSTV/PopUps/ChannelLineUpPDF/ChannelLineUpPDF.htm

That's it - THANK YOU!

knoxbh

10-17-08, 09:11 AM

I already have Directv and won't give that up - we are both NFL people and we have had excellent service from them. However, Verizon laid in their cable system a couple of weeks ago on our street and from their schedule of channels we might be interested in a package from them (already have Verizon telephone svc). Just downloaded the list of stations available but cannot find a place that shows the prices for them. Anyone know where I can go on the Internet to find the prices? Thanks.

kes601

10-17-08, 09:16 AM

gdeep

10-17-08, 09:22 AM

bdraw

10-17-08, 10:05 AM

No one from Florida has posted to confirm a launch of the final 15 channels. I notice that the Florida Gulf Coast PDF now lists the full 100 HD channels without the "Coming Soon" label, so I'd bet they'll wake up to new channels tomorrow.

Yes they turned them on earlier this week, but were on listed as unsubscribed until you called to add the Extreme HD package. We're at a 100 now -- can't confirm any of the movie channels as I don't subscribe.

bvader

10-17-08, 10:36 AM

HD is live I am having some issues though I am missing some channels such as FX HD and Golf/Versus HD, says I am not subscribed but think I should be.
Can someone else confirm? I suppose I need to call customer support to get that fixed.

EDIT : I guess this is the Premier Package Screwage. Saw some of the previous posts I will call and get it fixed, I had just renewed a few months back.

Other than that I am impressed that the DVR Schedule etc seems to be all adjusted.

UPDATE: Called my CSR (during the day) and I will have to give them credit ... again...she set me up with the extreme package and it turned out to be $5 less than my current package... So I get higher speed internet 20/5 and the extra HD channels (which I feel I should have got anyways) for ~$5 bucks less. My total with the HD DVR, Showtime and The Movie Package, Phone, Internet ~$141. Woman was very nice, knowledgeable and should be provisioned in the next 24 hours.

So I guess I am good, haven't really had time to inspect PQ on the channels, will have to go back through the thread seem to be a lot on Signal Strength in the past few days....

Anyone care to summarize their findings?

digital_dilemma

10-17-08, 12:13 PM

PorcupineCuddler

10-17-08, 12:33 PM

Channels added on FIOS in Seattle too. Thanks for the info jeepmatt

Awesome, you were right Jeepmatt! Thanks.

JayMan007

10-17-08, 12:38 PM

No one from Florida has posted to confirm a launch of the final 15 channels. I notice that the Florida Gulf Coast PDF now lists the full 100 HD channels without the "Coming Soon" label, so I'd bet they'll wake up to new channels tomorrow.

I saw a post on DSL Reports that someone in FL was getting the "not subscribed" on the 'Extreme" channels like FX, Speed, etc.

Also why I said not sure about FL.... ;)

darinp2

10-17-08, 02:11 PM

I was just looking through the channels in my area (near Seattle) and had been thinking that they had SpikeHD, but I don't see it on the list. I'm pretty sure I asked about that channel before I ordered and was told they had it, but I don't believe I've checked the guide. Anybody know if they have SpikeHD anywhere and if not, whether they have stated any plans to get it?

--Darin

coyoteaz

10-17-08, 02:22 PM

I was one of the very first in my community to get Fios, so I've been grandfathered in on changes at no upcharge. I see all the new channels now, but there are only a few, like MGM, Fox News, Fox Business, Disney in HD that I can't get (or it says I'm not subscribed). Otherwise I get a ton of new HD channels.

Has anyone else experience the same, and it just a matter of asking these be released or is another new charge in effect to get just a few extra channels?
You'll have to move to Extreme HD. Many people in this thread have actually reported a net drop in their monthly bill, so it might be worth your time to give Verizon a call and see what they can do for you.

slybarman

10-17-08, 02:43 PM

I cut $10 off my bill going to ExtremeHD.

hernanu

10-17-08, 03:07 PM

ieko

10-17-08, 03:12 PM

URFloorMatt

10-17-08, 03:51 PM

No SpikeHD here and we have the full rollout. Someone earlier brought that up, no idea when they would get it.

Since Verizon customers don't get any Viacom networks in HD (Comedy Central, CMT, MTV, Nickelodeon, Spike, VH1) save Palladia, I'm guessing they haven't reached an agreement yet.

The same is true of Rainbow Media (AMC, Fuse, IFC, WE). Rainbow Media also has Voom, though it's not clear that Cablevision is allowing anyone else a crack at Voom.

Other channels strangely absent are Encore, Starz West, and RFD HD. Verizon recently announced an agreement with Starz to carry all of their HD channels going forward, so I guess we'll see these two soon enough. Verizon announced carriage of RFD HD months ago, but it's not on anyone's lineup yet.

Other missing HD channels include Cartoon Network, CBS College Sports, Fuel TV, NBA TV, NHL Network, Game HD, and Team HD.

stevec325

10-17-08, 04:01 PM

I'd still rather see more HD-VOD content from the Major Premiums... SHO, HBO (I think they pulled all HD content from everyone, piracy fears), MAX, STZ, etc.

Comcast has us crushed when it comes to this. I miss watching the series' that are available in HD.

Rather than add a bunch of new (arguably) stupid channels, add some useful HD-VOD.

rentz

10-17-08, 04:50 PM

I called and talked to a rep, and switching to extreme HD really lowered my bill quite a bit. I added all the movie stations and extreme and ended up paying $5 LESS than I was before.

maxman

10-17-08, 05:18 PM

Rather than add a bunch of new (arguably) stupid channels, add some useful HD-VOD.

I'll take the "stupid" channels, thank you very much.:rolleyes::)

stevec325

10-17-08, 05:56 PM

I'll take the "stupid" channels, thank you very much.:rolleyes::)

I hear the Paper Clip Channel-HD and the Growing Grass-HD channels are being developed :)

URFloorMatt

10-17-08, 06:21 PM

News from the fiber competition: It looks like U-verse will have 123 HD channels by year end, including Voom, which will be offered for an additional fee. Eight channels went out today to test markets. Some channels will launch on Nov. 3. On Nov. 10, AT&T will roll out what amounts to its own version of the Extreme HD pricing uptick.

knoxbh

10-17-08, 07:00 PM

Thanks a lot for the info.

hobbs47

10-17-08, 07:20 PM

UPDATE: Called my CSR (during the day) and I will have to give them credit ... again...she set me up with the extreme package and it turned out to be $5 less than my current package... So I get higher speed internet 20/5 and the extra HD channels (which I feel I should have got anyways) for ~$5 bucks less. My total with the HD DVR, Showtime and The Movie Package, Phone, Internet ~$141. Woman was very nice, knowledgeable and should be provisioned in the next 24 hours.

So I guess I am good, haven't really had time to inspect PQ on the channels, will have to go back through the thread seem to be a lot on Signal Strength in the past few days....

Anyone care to summarize their findings?

Hey bvader,

Definitely give us your impressions on PQ. How do you like the HD DVR? I am looking at getting FIOS installed next week here in HB,the 79.99 deal(tv/internet),along with the extra HD box for the bedroom will put me at $90 a month,not bad. I may go ahead and add all the HD movie channels for $30 as well. From what I have read Verizon's HD DVR's can't have their capacity upgraded via eSata,that's a shame if true,don't they only give you like 20 hours of HD recording capacity?

TRUE2LABLUE

10-17-08, 07:22 PM

Here in California our transition has been a bit rough, when upgrading to extreme HD we all lose FSN West & Primte Ticket SD & HD and also don't get access to Smithsonian HD. Not to mention the tech department won't believe we have extreme HD unless the CSR stays on the line and tells them that this is the case...

Same thing happened to me here in Oxnard ,CA and after 5 CSR's reset my box and ran every test possible I finally got a supervisor to believe that it wasn't my box and that it was a network transmission issue

UPDATE.....They fixed all the flawed channels today in CA

FYI...To receive the best tec support... go through the billing department option and have them get someone on the line......that's when they finally take you seriously :)

bvader

10-17-08, 08:32 PM

Hey bvader,

Definitely give us your impressions on PQ. How do you like the HD DVR? I am looking at getting FIOS installed next week here in HB,the 79.99 deal(tv/internet),along with the extra HD box for the bedroom will put me at $90 a month,not bad. I may go ahead and add all the HD movie channels for $30 as well. From what I have read Verizon's HD DVR's can't have their capacity upgraded via eSata,that's a shame if true,don't they only give you like 20 hours of HD recording capacity?

Hi Hobbs,

Well in general up to now the PQ on Fios has been excellent / superior. I have had it for 14 months. I was/am a little concerned (for no scientific reason) about the PQ after the roll out of the additional HD channels. I will hopefully take a closer look over the weekend.

The DVR has a few issues and the disk space is small but I get by with it. But overall I wouldn't trade Fios for Cable (Was on TW for years) or satellite , my service has been rock solid and the PQ (which is what I am interested in) is excellent/the best I have seen and the value for Phone, Internet and TV is pretty darned good.

I will be perusing the new channels more this weekend

UPDATE.....They fixed all the flawed channels today in CA

FYI...To receive the best tec support... go through the billing department option and have them get someone on the line......that's when they finally take you seriously :)
Great I need to get home and check...I went through the Service Change option and seemed to get good service.