I have the QIP6416 HD DVR box. Is there any way to test the signal strength? I have some attenuators on my line and I want to make sure they're not overly degrading my signal.

I have the QIP6416 HD DVR box. Is there any way to test the signal strength? I have some attenuators on my line and I want to make sure they're not overly degrading my signal.

If you just want SNR, then go to the Help Menu on the box and do the System Diagnostics test, it will tell you the SNR.

I believe to get into the more detailed system diagnostics menu w/the STB/DVR on you press Power Select Select and it will show you a menu. You can find other readings in there.

<<(anyone have e-mail and snail-mail addresses?)>>

try here

http://consumerist.com/consumer/verizon/14-verizon-executives-phone-numbers-239216.php

I got a response from John Russo, although my problem hasn't been resolved yet. good luck and let us know if you get anything.

We should take the opportunity to map exactly where all the HBO & Cinemax HD channels are, but HBO HD East should be at QAM 94, Cinemax HD East at QAM 110.

You can find out any channel any time without a "free preview". Don't understand why you think this is an opportunity to find this out.

I have the QIP6416 HD DVR box. Is there any way to test the signal strength? I have some attenuators on my line and I want to make sure they're not overly degrading my signal.Here's the details on what kes601 is referring to: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizonfios/4.0_FiOS_Television#15925 Look at the SNR and AGC in the "d04 Inband Status" menu.

I think I'm getting addicted to the NHL Network. I just watched the Canes vs. Flyers on Comcast Sportsnet HD. After the game (amazing!!! ), I switched over to NHL network HD program, "On the Fly". Nice. They switched to cover the Flyers' win within a few minutes of real time.


What a great comeback by the Flyers and a heck of a shootout to end it. Then flipped over to the end of the Nova v St Joes game which was not in HD on ESPN2HD. Browsed the NHL network and did see the Flyers coverage too.

BTW did anyone have issues with National Geographic HD/Discover HD last night (channels 620/621 in DC metro?) I'd switch over and the screen would freeze and then get an 'unavailable.' This was on my new 6416-2 hddvr I had JUST hooked up so just want to confirm its not my DVR.

where is hbo in demand hd? i'm hoping to watch entourage in hd :)

where is hbo in demand hd? i'm hoping to watch entourage in hd :)

HBO does not offer OnDemand in HD, they used to, but gave some excuse that it was too easy to pirate, etc, blah.

You can find out any channel any time without a "free preview". Don't understand why you think this is an opportunity to find this out.
I am talking about their exact QAM sub-channel number. The diagnostics mode will show the QAM channel frequency, but not which sub-channel. This is of a more academic interest, because you can tune to QAM 94 and then channel step up until you find the unencrypted channel if you are not sure which one it is.

Anyone getting their programming out of VHO15 (WNY) receiving these new channels yet? I have 587 listed in my guide, when I select it, I am told I don't subscribe to that channel - which is BS as my programming package is Extreme HD.


I love the PQ FIOS provides... but man is their customer service department a black hole!!! Once you get by ROBOT HELL, --- AGENT AGENT AGENT!!! you maybe lucky enough to get to a human that has a clue. :mad:
Since I moved to FIOS in October, I have nothing good to say about their CS model.

In any event, I called to inquire about why I couldn't see channel 587 and I was told that I did not have that channel. Hmmmm.... nope, try again. I am looking at it in the guide. Then I was put on hold and of course after 20 minutes disconnected! I called back, placed on hold 30 minutes and finally got moved to a tech that while was baffled by this, at least opened a ticket to find out why........

Once again, I have to say the official Verizon forums are a great source of info.

http://forums.verizon.com/vrzn/board/message?board.id=FiOS_TV&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=4532#M4532


According to the information I have recieved VHO 7, 13, 14 and 15 did not recieve these channels. We have not heard why nor have i recieved any other information as to when they will be launched in those areas. They will be programmed into the guide but there is no access to them for anyone in these areas just yet.

TS

Once again, I have to say the official Verizon forums are a great source of info.

http://forums.verizon.com/vrzn/board/message?board.id=FiOS_TV&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=4532#M4532

Bull - Thank you. Its interesting that the Verizon tech did not know this.... However, I was not personally aware of the Verizon thread you linked to. This will help as point of reference going forward.

Hello,

I am in South Jersey and I have multiple channels that are coming up "currently unavailable" that I normally get, and yes, I have extreme HD package

anyone else?

Hello,

I am in South Jersey and I have multiple channels that are coming up "currently unavailable" that I normally get, and yes, I have extreme HD package

anyone else?

Not here. What channels specifically?

Hello,

I am in South Jersey and I have multiple channels that are coming up "currently unavailable" that I normally get, and yes, I have extreme HD package

anyone else?

This happens to me as well... All black background with ugly while letters? This is a firmware issue with Verizon. Simply change to a different channel and then change back. This clears the issue... This does not happen frequently and seems to be occurring less and less.

Not here. What channels specifically?


at least 56 channels (I lost count) all over the channel listings. I rebooted everything and verizon had me reboot everything but they cant fix it over the phone. They are coming Sunday to fix it. Most likely the ONT is going bad. Looks like it is just me, just my luck.

Fixed for me around 3pm today, and still okay.

I think you can thank me for the fix. I was on the phone with them again for a couple hours this afternoon (about 4 hours total), here's how it went:

- Last night I spent 2 hours walking through everything they wanted from me, including resetting my router, rebooting PC's in safe mode, resetting browsers, downloading Opera and Firefox, etc.
- I finally pushed them to let me connect directly to the ONT with my laptop, showing the same problem.
- The tier-1 help desk person told me the network engineer kept hanging up on him, telling him "it's not a network problem!"
- The help desk person had to go to another help desk person to get the network engineer to at least listen and open a ticket.
- Eventually he opened a ticket, escalated it, and said a few other people reported the same problem. The help desk person "tagged" it to his manager as well.

- Today, they told me my ticket was open and would be fixed by 1pm
- At 1:30, they told me the ticket was closed. I had to call them, they never called me or verified it was working (it wasn't) or anything. They just closed the ticket.
- They said it wasn't a network problem, and started to walk me through the same nonsense. I cut them off and said that I connected to the ONT and it shows the same problem, so it's clearly their problem.
- He said he would open a ticket again
- I said that wasn't okay, since I'd be having the same conversation tomorrow, as the network techs appear to just be ignoring the tickets.
- I expressed my frustration that the network techs seemed too arrogant to accept that this might actually be a network problem. I said I wasn't okay with just another ticket, I wanted to speak to a network tech, or I wanted one to come to my house so they could see for themselves what they seemed to refuse to accept.
- He tried to get a network tech to talk to me, but they wouldn't (they aren't allowed to, it seems).
- Then he asked if next Tuesday was an okay time for a visit - I of course said no, and that I wanted someone out today, since they basically ignored the issue from last night.
- He called the local office, and they said Friday from 1-5. Not okay, I work, it would have to be today or early tomorrow morning.
- He called the office again, and said 9:30am. I figured that was the best I would get, but I expressed my frustration at the techs again (not the phone support).
- He confirmed the time.

Within 20 minutes it was fixed. Once the techs realized they would actually have to spend time to come out to see it, they must have decided to really look into the problem, and managed to fix it.

I don't have an issue with their being a technical problem. I don't have an issue with it taking a couple days to fix. I don't have an issue with walking through painful diagnostics even though I know they won't do anything (the techs have to follow protocol, and they don't know if I'm an idiot or not). And the help desk staff are very nice and really try, but they are crippled in terms of tools to get additional support.

What I have a serious issue with is that the network techs simply ignored the problem, and ignored the help desk support. I went through every hoop they asked of me, and they still ignored the problem and refused to accept it was actually a network issue. They even hung up on their own support staff!

Anyway, it's fixed now, but I need to write a letter to some group of executives somewhere (anyone have e-mail and snail-mail addresses?). This behavior between the help desk staff and the network engineers has to change, as it's resulting in horrible customer service. And the attitude of the network techs, that every customer must be an idiot, and they don't even try to diagnose a complicated problem, is unacceptable (to me).

Eh, I'll probably stop caring about it tomorrow, but it's really annoying. I can't imagine how long it would have taken had I not persisted and insisted on additional support!

Ahhhhh! Same problem this morning. No HTTPS access, and even some painfully slow HTTP access.

Annoyingly, it's more sporadic this morning, with brief periods (like 30-60 seconds) where everything is fine, then it stops.

This is rediculous. Anyone else in MD having problems again?

Fixed for me around 3pm today, and still okay.

I think you can thank me for the fix. I was on the phone with them again for a couple hours this afternoon (about 4 hours total), here's how it went:

......

Sorry for all your frustration but thanks for writing it up. BTW did they ever say what the exact issue was?

Just in case this helps anyone else.
Occasionally have power issues in my neighborhood, a little pattern I have seen from my end when my internet gets in a "funky state" (tech term...and BTW I am a tech guy too), everything "appears to be working" but in fact I have no internet connectivity.

When ever I get in the bizarre state, I simply ask them to reboot the ONT, depending on who I talk too they will usually do it. I have had pretty good luck with tech support so far (knock...knock) I had a really good guy early on, but when I get a not so good guy, I kind of play the reverse psychology bit (by the time I call I have rebooted the router, my pc, ipconfig'd etc). So I just say something along the lines....

"Yeah this happened to me before and it took the tech a long time to figure out before. We have some power issues out here and we just had one. They figured out they needed to reboot the ONT. Can you do that for me."

They guy usually is a bit surprised that I know what the ONT is and that it can be rebooted, but also does not want to spend too much time. Usually they do it and it fixes my issue.


Good Luck all... I have a new DVR issue I need to figure out. Will post and ask for help soon, I hope

Sorry for all your frustration but thanks for writing it up. I occasionally have power issues in my neighborhood. I won't pretend to have a fix etc...but a little pattern I have seen from my end when my internet gets in a "funky state" (tech term...and BTW I am a tech guy too).

When ever I get in the bizarre state, I simply ask them to reboot the ONT, depending on who I talk too they will usually do it. I have had pretty good luck with tech support so far (knock...knock) I had a really good guy early on, but when I get a not so good guy, I kind of play the reverse psychology bit (by the time I call I have rebooted the router, my pc, ipconfig'd etc). So I just say something along the lines....

"Yeah this happened to me before and it took the tech a long time to figure out before. We have some power issues out here and we just had one. They figured out they needed to reboot the ONT. Can you do that for me."

They guy usually is a bit surprised that I know what the ONT is and that it can be rebooted, but also does not want to spend too much time. Usually they do it and it fixes my issue.


Good Luck all... I have a new DVR issue I need to figure out. Will post and ask for help soon, I hope

It was definitely some sort of regional issue (and is again this morning). Rebooting the ONT was one of the first things done (although I didn't mention that explicitly in the post above - there were a lot of things done that I didn't spell out, as I would go insane!).

This better not become a recurring problem... And I sure hope it gets fixed quickly this morning.

It was definitely some sort of regional issue (and is again this morning). Rebooting the ONT was one of the first things done (although I didn't mention that explicitly in the post above - there were a lot of things done that I didn't spell out, as I would go insane!).

This better not become a recurring problem... And I sure hope it gets fixed quickly this morning.

Again this Morning doh!!!

Yeah hopefully they get that fixed, in general my FiOS has been very stable, but it does s#ck when its not. Yeah I mentioned the ONT Reboot thing not as much for you but for other folks...took a loooong time to get there the first time. My issue stem from some power issues in my neighborhood so I can't really blame Verizon for that.

Good luck ...again!

Any chance this could have something to do with the rollout of Digital Voice? I know they're pilot testing that in parts of VHO4.

Ahhhhh! Same problem this morning. No HTTPS access, and even some painfully slow HTTP access.

Annoyingly, it's more sporadic this morning, with brief periods (like 30-60 seconds) where everything is fine, then it stops.

This is rediculous. Anyone else in MD having problems again?

Yes, I'm freakin going insane. I spent two hours with 3 different Verizon Techs today and two more hours last Wednesday night(after which they mailed me a new Router, which did nothing). They kept telling me to call Microsoft or Dell even though all 4 computers in my house have the exact same problem. Or I could pay for their Tech Service. I just laughed. Like I'm going to pay them to debug their problem. I really don't want to go back to Crapcast, but I'm running out of options here. I'm in Germantown, MD. No HTTPS access Wednesday night and again all day today.

Ahhhhh! Same problem this morning. No HTTPS access, and even some painfully slow HTTP access.

Annoyingly, it's more sporadic this morning, with brief periods (like 30-60 seconds) where everything is fine, then it stops.

This is rediculous. Anyone else in MD having problems again?

My turn tonight. My wife was frustrated so she called an I spoke with a CSR who asked me to restart my router. That did not fix it (not surprisingly). I'm afraid I went off on him after he said there have been no reports of similar problems. I told him that people on these forums are well aware that there are ongoing problems and that means there is a problem with communication at Verizon since he doesn't know. He wanted to go through the process of resetting my browser settinings etc but I said that wold'nt work since it was happening on multiple computers within my home and those computers had no problem connecting on other networks.

I asked to bump it up to a tech. He tried but said that they refused because "It didn't meet the required criteria for their involvement". I again told them that many others were having this same problem and referred them to this and the forum at dslreports. I asked to speak to a supervisor and after some more time on hold was told that they would get back to me.

My impressions are that if someone is aware of the problem at Verizon, it has obviously not been communicated to the people who need to know. Alternatively, there continues to be denial of any problem by the techs since they refuse to acknowledge it even from the CSR's. There is also an obvious degree of arrogance reflected by their refusal to talk to me.

Bottom line is, I doubt this problem will be acknowledged, much less resolved unless the people affected begin to call and complain in volume.

I just started a thread on the Verizon FIOS forum. It got pulled in less than 15 minutes. No response. Maybe we can get a group sign up rate with Comcast or some other provider. :)

It wasn't pulled. I can see it.

I just started a thread on the Verizon FIOS forum. It got pulled in less than 15 minutes. No response. Maybe we can get a group sign up rate with Comcast or some other provider. :)

I see it. I would add my 2 cents but that would require that I register and log on, which I can't, which is whole problem in the first place.

I just started a thread on the Verizon FIOS forum. It got pulled in less than 15 minutes. No response. Maybe we can get a group sign up rate with Comcast or some other provider. :)

I saw it last night. Today I get "The message you are trying to access has been deleted. Please update your bookmarks."

. I'm in Germantown, MD. No HTTPS access Wednesday night and again all day today.

What browser are you using?
I have been having problems with IE Beta 8.2, but Firefox will work.
On my wired desktop IE will not complete the link to my VPN, but Firefox has no problem.

It wasn't pulled. I can see it.

That's not it. The first one I posted was nastier. I figured I would try again just to see how many people out there are having this issue.

What browser are you using?
I have been having problems with IE Beta 8.2, but Firefox will work.
On my wired desktop IE will not complete the link to my VPN, but Firefox has no problem.

I'm using both Mozilla and IE on both XP and Vista OS's. Still not working this morning. I see that my second post on Verizon's FIOS forum was pulled as well. Nothing nasty in that post, just wanted to see how many people were having the same problem. Guess Verizon doesn't want everyone to know that there is an issue. I'll try calling one more time this morning and see if they will reset the ONT. If not, I'm going to have to pull the plug on them. I work from home and can't go without service any longer.

That's not it. The first one I posted was nastier. I figured I would try again just to see how many people out there are having this issue.

Just posted on the Verizon Fios forum. It will be interesting to see if it also gets pulled. That post is as follows:

Since Thursday and not been able to log on to secure websites such as AOL, banks, Facebook and NIH webmail. external applications such as Rhapsody iTunes are also affected. This occurs on several computers which have not problem connecting through our neighbors Comcast. Many other posters on dslreports and AVS FIOS forum have reported the same thing. The common theme is Verizon continues to refuse it is their problem. Each caller is told that no "one else is reporting this". When I asked to speak to a higher level technician they told me that it "didn't meet their criteria". A similar post here was pulled. Just google "https Fios". My wife is ready to pull the plug on FiOS which would be shame since I hate Comcast.

I found the following thread on dslreports.com. It sounds like Verizon may be working on it.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21563924-northeast-HTTPS-problem~start=20?r=319#21584290

<quote from the thread above>
I called Verizon FIOS this morning to register a ticket as yet another user with this issue.

I made sure to be pleasant and cut to the chase, and was able to get past the Tier 1 fellow into Tier 2 without much issue.

The Tier 2 fellow said that Verizon Technical people know that it is an issue that is affecting multiple users and that they are working on it. He said that the target fix time had been 6 AM this morning (Monday), but that obviously they hadn't fixed it yet. As of 11AM still not fixed.

If it's not fixed by the end of the day, others should also call in with trouble tickets.<end quote>

According to Swimrun at dslreports:

"Problem still not resolved. Verizon says that it is a group outage affecting the Germantown area also. According to the CSR, the problem is being worked upon. They do not have an estimated time of completion."

Does this mean they have actually admitted there is a problem?

According to Swimrun at dslreports:

"Problem still not resolved. Verizon says that it is a group outage affecting the Germantown area also. According to the CSR, the problem is being worked upon. They do not have an estimated time of completion."

Does this mean they have actually admitted there is a problem?

I doubt it.

Let me start with:

I don't mind there being a problem, or an outage.
I don't even mind a long outage.
I don't mind it being difficult to solve.
But I have an issue with a problem that clearly exists, and isn't being worked on.
And I have a bigger problem when the network techs won't even try to see if this might be their problem, either by listening for a minute, or even coming out to a house to see the problem for themselves.
And I am angered by the complete lack of acknowledgement of a problem, and the continued insistence, after jumping through all their hoops, that it's my problem, and the refusal to do anything about it.
So I have a problem that is clearly their problem (at least clearly to any rational person), I can't fix it, and they refuse to fix it. What am I supposed to do?!?!?

Check this out - my third call yesterday, for another 2 hours. I've done every diagnostic they've asked for, multiple times, and have given them crystal clear diagnostics that it's their problem:


Laptop connected directly to ONT in safe mode - no HTTPS (therefore not my network, or router)
Laptop connected to neighbor's Comcast in safe mode - HTTPS works (pretty strong argument it's not the laptop)
Both of the above with a clean download of FireFox (I use IE usually) - Same results
Windows Mobile Cell-Phone connected through WiFi - Same problem (strong argument there isn't some unique Windows patch that hit every machine in my house and only affects FIOS HTTPS traffic)
So I called, cut to the chase with this information, and asked to have a tech come out to my house since they don't appear to want to admit it's a problem, and perhaps if they actually see the problem with their laptop they'll acknowledge it's a FIOS issue (network or ONT config).

The Tier 1 person was very nice, called the local dispatch office, and said they had someone available that afternoon (Sunday), but that her supervisor wouldn't let her send a tech out!

So I asked to talk to the supervisor (Yolanda #990706). Here's basically how it went:
- Yolanda: "I'm sorry sir, this is a browser problem, so I can't send a tech out"
- Me: "But did you hear the diagnostics? This clearly isn't a browser problem"
- Yolanda: "Sorry, there's nothing I can do"
- Me: "I understand, so can you send a tech out?"
- Yolanda: "No, you need to call Dell or HP or something"
- Me: "Are you kidding me?"
- Yolanda: "No I'm not sir, this isn't our problem, you have to call someone else to get it fixed. If you can get to regular sites, then it's your problem, not ours"
- Me: "But I've gone through all your diagnostics, three times, and given you additional diagnostics that clearly show this is a FIOS problem"
- Yolanda: "No matter what you say, I will not send a tech out."
- Me (a little upset now): "Is there a chance this might be a problem you haven't seen before?"
- Yolanda: "Sure, that's possible"
- Me: "So how do you escalate when it's a problem you haven't seen before?"
- Yolanda: "Sir, I'm happy to stay on the phone with you, but I will not send a tech out under any circumstances. You need to call you PC manufacturer."

Holy crap! What the heck is this?!?!?!

I was baffled at the combined unfounded arrogance and complete ineptitude of this person, as well as the network techs that apparently can only be accessed by "online chat". Verizon's customer service process is so completely broken, that they won't even admit they have a problem if they can't immediately make it look like a previous problem.

This has been going on since Thursday, and perhaps only as of today are they even admitting to a problem.

I guess I'm glad to see I'm not alone. However I have no hope this is actually being worked on, or that it will get fixed any time soon.

I strongly suggest anyone who has beaten their head against the wall trying to get through tech support, and being told continuously that this is a browser problem, write to Verizon executives! I never ever do this, but I am so completely amazed at how this all went down, and how poorly they treat their customers, that I'm going to send something this time.

If anyone has names and addresses, please post here or PM me.

Thanks!
Mark

I doubt it.


Check this out - my third call yesterday, for another 2 hours. I've done every diagnostic they've asked for, multiple times, and have given them crystal clear diagnostics that it's their problem:

etc, etc.


Mark

They repeatedly told me and my wife during our three calls yesterday that "no one else is reporting this problem, there is nothing on the white board".

They are either lying, are incompetent, or the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. When I asked to speak to a higher level tech, they refused. When I asked to speak to a supervisor they said they would call me back. They never did. I would love to have a direct number to someone of authority. I suspect that if they knew what was going on they would be appalled. The sad thing is that my wife will likely force me to switch to Comcast after this. I also just convinced my brother-in-law to switch to FiOS. He is scheduled for installation on Dec 29 and now I have to tell him that all is not well in FiOS land.

They repeatedly told me and my wife during our three calls yesterday that "no one else is reporting this problem, there is nothing on the white board".

They are either lying, are incompetent, or the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. When I asked to speak to a higher level tech, they refused. When I asked to speak to a supervisor they said they would call me back. They never did. I would love to have a direct number to someone of authority. I suspect that if they knew what was going on they would be appalled. The sad thing is that my wife will likely force me to switch to Comcast after this. I also just convinced my brother-in-law to switch to FiOS. He is scheduled for installation on Dec 29 and now I have to tell him that all is not well in FiOS land.
How you tried posting to the Verizon Direct forum here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect

It's monitored by Verizon staff and they have been a big help in the past with technical issues.

It looks like the folks in Germantown are getting a taste of what the folks down in Florida have been complaining to the FCC about (but with respect to a different problem/service, Verizon's copper line POTS).

Verizon needs to massively upend it's entire CSR/technical support system. The phone company is obviously not equipped to troubleshoot technical problems or handle the billing demands of a television/broadband service.

How you tried posting to the Verizon Direct forum here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect

It's monitored by Verizon staff and they have been a big help in the past with technical issues.

I started a thread there on Friday. Also from that thread an update by Swimrun:

The CSR took some time going through the ticket log and summarized it to me saying that it is a group outage which is being actively worked upon. No ETC. She also said that they will call me and email me when the problem is resolved. I have to believe them because they called me this morning regarding the ticket that was opened last night on this issue to find out whether I am still having the problem. So in my opinion they started working on the problem this morning. I hope that it is not a fix that can be made only during non-peak hours. I also hope that the problem doesn't persist on Tuesday morning.

How you tried posting to the Verizon Direct forum here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect

It's monitored by Verizon staff and they have been a big help in the past with technical issues.

What's shocking is they continue to delete any and all posts on their boards that relate to this problem! (The Verizon boards, not the dslreports one.)

Here's a link to one that's now gone, but is still in google:
1. No access to HTTPS sites in Germantown/Boyds, MD - FiOS Internet ...
Dec 14, 2008 ... No access to HTTPS sites in Germantown/Boyds, MD ... Not sure what else I can do other than switch ISPs at this point. ...
forums.verizon.com/vrzn/board/message?board.id=FiOS_Internet&message.id=1227 - 17 hours ago - Similar pages

Exactly the problem many of us are having, and the comment of desparation captures it - this is a FIOS problem, and they refuse to fix it. All we can do is switch providers, it seems?!?

What the heck is going on here??!?!?

I would start here:

http://investor.verizon.com/corp_gov/overview.aspx

and to contact the board:

http://investor.verizon.com/corp_gov/contact_board.aspx

It has the information about who the governing executives are, and contact information about corporate headquarters, etc.

A well phrased note that describes the problem and sticks to the point without too much extraneous complaining can do the job.

I've been on the receiving end of one of these emails from a customer, that was sent to the CEO of my company. It was read by the CEO, who promptly sent a bullet to our management demanding a solution to the particular problem, and a review of our procedures. Needless to say, it got our attention fast. I also sent one of these to a computer manufacturer who I believe had not done their job, and got some very quick action. It may not work here, but I have witnessed its effectiveness in the past.

FIOS has great potential for excellent service and low prices for us, but it can only be kept on its toes by its customers, especially in these economic times.

Just got off the phone with a competent Verizon Tech finally. The ticket was opened last night and the number is #MDES014229. Call them and tell them to add your name to the group ticket. He thinks they are waiting until tonight(off peak load) to switch everyone over to some new hardware or something.

Just wanted to thank members for posting such helpful information. My girlfriend's Verizon service has been having this issue and I knew it was not her computers or my laptop. As others stated the Verizon reps denied that the problem is on their end. I called in to have her account added to the list of users being impacted. Thanks again!

Fixed for me around 3pm today, and still okay.

I think you can thank me for the fix. I was on the phone with them again for a couple hours this afternoon (about 4 hours total), here's how it went:

- Last night I spent 2 hours walking through everything they wanted from me, including resetting my router, rebooting PC's in safe mode, resetting browsers, downloading Opera and Firefox, etc.
- I finally pushed them to let me connect directly to the ONT with my laptop, showing the same problem.
- The tier-1 help desk person told me the network engineer kept hanging up on him, telling him "it's not a network problem!"
- The help desk person had to go to another help desk person to get the network engineer to at least listen and open a ticket.
- Eventually he opened a ticket, escalated it, and said a few other people reported the same problem. The help desk person "tagged" it to his manager as well.

- Today, they told me my ticket was open and would be fixed by 1pm
- At 1:30, they told me the ticket was closed. I had to call them, they never called me or verified it was working (it wasn't) or anything. They just closed the ticket.
- They said it wasn't a network problem, and started to walk me through the same nonsense. I cut them off and said that I connected to the ONT and it shows the same problem, so it's clearly their problem.
- He said he would open a ticket again
- I said that wasn't okay, since I'd be having the same conversation tomorrow, as the network techs appear to just be ignoring the tickets.
- I expressed my frustration that the network techs seemed too arrogant to accept that this might actually be a network problem. I said I wasn't okay with just another ticket, I wanted to speak to a network tech, or I wanted one to come to my house so they could see for themselves what they seemed to refuse to accept.
- He tried to get a network tech to talk to me, but they wouldn't (they aren't allowed to, it seems).
- Then he asked if next Tuesday was an okay time for a visit - I of course said no, and that I wanted someone out today, since they basically ignored the issue from last night.
- He called the local office, and they said Friday from 1-5. Not okay, I work, it would have to be today or early tomorrow morning.
- He called the office again, and said 9:30am. I figured that was the best I would get, but I expressed my frustration at the techs again (not the phone support).
- He confirmed the time.

Within 20 minutes it was fixed. Once the techs realized they would actually have to spend time to come out to see it, they must have decided to really look into the problem, and managed to fix it.

I don't have an issue with their being a technical problem. I don't have an issue with it taking a couple days to fix. I don't have an issue with walking through painful diagnostics even though I know they won't do anything (the techs have to follow protocol, and they don't know if I'm an idiot or not). And the help desk staff are very nice and really try, but they are crippled in terms of tools to get additional support.

What I have a serious issue with is that the network techs simply ignored the problem, and ignored the help desk support. I went through every hoop they asked of me, and they still ignored the problem and refused to accept it was actually a network issue. They even hung up on their own support staff!

Anyway, it's fixed now, but I need to write a letter to some group of executives somewhere (anyone have e-mail and snail-mail addresses?). This behavior between the help desk staff and the network engineers has to change, as it's resulting in horrible customer service. And the attitude of the network techs, that every customer must be an idiot, and they don't even try to diagnose a complicated problem, is unacceptable (to me).

Eh, I'll probably stop caring about it tomorrow, but it's really annoying. I can't imagine how long it would have taken had I not persisted and insisted on additional support!

I've run into this fundamental problem with their support. There's a serious disconnect between their "Network Operations" and the rest of the support staff. I've had ongoing issues with sound dropouts and picture breakups that a repair tech confirmed is occurring at multiple locations and they just ignored their own repair personnel. 4 months later the problem still isn't fixed.

I'm wondering if we need a new thread like Comcast has for non-HD issues. This recent networking problem diagnosing seems to be better suited for a forum about internet/networking rather than one intended for HDTV news and notes. I am only familiar with the HDTV portions of AVS Forum, so to be honest I don't even know if there is a better place for it, but it seems that the HDTV section would not be it.

It's all really good info, and I'm definitely not trying to dissuade anyone from participating; I just think it's probably in the wrong place. I hope people don't take this the wrong way, it's really just my attempt at a constructive suggestion.

Just got off the phone with a competent Verizon Tech finally. The ticket was opened last night and the number is #MDES014229. Call them and tell them to add your name to the group ticket. He thinks they are waiting until tonight(off peak load) to switch everyone over to some new hardware or something.

Just spoke with my wife who had called as recently as two hours ago and was told that "no one else is complaining" and "It's not on the white-board". They wanted to restart the troubleshooting we've all gone through but she insisted that they recheck and viola, they now admit there is a regional problem that is being worked on. Makes you wonder how many people who are unaware of these forums are just accepting that the problem is with their computer and not Verizon.

I'm wondering if we need a new thread like Comcast has for non-HD issues. This recent networking problem diagnosing seems to be better suited for a forum about internet/networking rather than one intended for HDTV news and notes. I am only familiar with the HDTV portions of AVS Forum, so to be honest I don't even know if there is a better place for it, but it seems that the HDTV section would not be it.

It's all really good info, and I'm definitely not trying to dissuade anyone from participating; I just think it's probably in the wrong place. I hope people don't take this the wrong way, it's really just my attempt at a constructive suggestion.

You're probably right, but as I was looking for others with the same issue, this is were I found it. The high traffic means a higher likelihood that others with the same problem will see it. I've been running a parallel discussion at the dslreports Verizon FiOS internet forum but this forum has had more comments.

Just got off the phone with a competent Verizon Tech finally. The ticket was opened last night and the number is #MDES014229. Call them and tell them to add your name to the group ticket. He thinks they are waiting until tonight(off peak load) to switch everyone over to some new hardware or something.

A very nice tech just left my house. I can confirm the ticket number above, and when he called it in, he was told the same thing - that's they're waiting for a "quiet period" to fix the problem. He just came from another house with the same behavior. And it turns out that everyone on my side of the street has the same problem, but people across the street don't... weird...

At least it appears they are acknowledging the issue finally and trying to fix it. That's all I ask for.

I'm still determined to send a letter to the execs there however, as the behavior of the customer support supervisors, and the network engineers, and the way they handled this whole thing is just unacceptable.

Funny quote from the tech - I explained to him (briefly) the pain I've gone through, and that the CSR supervisor said "No matter what you say, I'm not sending a tech out - this is a browser problem, call Dell or HP"; the tech said "It's at times like these, we at Verizon thank god for Comcast"!!!!

Too funny... and too true... if Comcast were good at all, I'd seriously consider jumping to them. But their internet sucks (at least out by me), it's always going out, and their TV quality isn't even close to FIOS.

Damn... We need alternatives!

Anyway, hopefully this will indeed get fixed tonight.

Here is a number I found for verizon customer relations when I was having a phone bill issue and they got back to me quickly and with someone who could get it fixed . Then I even received afollow up call. When i told them it wasn't completely fixed they gave me a big credit and got me intouch with someone else to resolve it
The# is 800 483 7988 then #3 for complaints .edu
good luck

A very nice tech just left my house. I can confirm the ticket number above, and when he called it in, he was told the same thing - that's they're waiting for a "quiet period" to fix the problem. He just came from another house with the same behavior. And it turns out that everyone on my side of the street has the same problem, but people across the street don't... weird...

At least it appears they are acknowledging the issue finally and trying to fix it. That's all I ask for.

I'm still determined to send a letter to the execs there however, as the behavior of the customer support supervisors, and the network engineers, and the way they handled this whole thing is just unacceptable.

Funny quote from the tech - I explained to him (briefly) the pain I've gone through, and that the CSR supervisor said "No matter what you say, I'm not sending a tech out - this is a browser problem, call Dell or HP"; the tech said "It's at times like these, we at Verizon thank god for Comcast"!!!!

Too funny... and too true... if Comcast were good at all, I'd seriously consider jumping to them. But their internet sucks (at least out by me), it's always going out, and their TV quality isn't even close to FIOS.

Damn... We need alternatives!

Anyway, hopefully this will indeed get fixed tonight.

You've got to be kidding... It's still not fixed!

So, it takes them 5 days before they even admit there's a problem. Then they promise it will be fixed last night, and it's still the exact same problem.

I'll bet if I call them up now, they'll tell me the ticket is closed and everything is working, and it's a browser problem!

Calling now... let's see...

You've got to be kidding... It's still not fixed!

So, it takes them 5 days before they even admit there's a problem. Then they promise it will be fixed last night, and it's still the exact same problem.

I'll bet if I call them up now, they'll tell me the ticket is closed and everything is working, and it's a browser problem!

Calling now... let's see...

SURPRISE! Just called, and they claim the problem was fixed at 5:30am. Apparently these network techs just changed some hardware, but have no clue how to test it. I asked the tech support person, and he said "well, sir, they're just waiting for some people to call in if it's still a problem".

What?!? What are these guys doing?!?!? Did they just swap out some random hardware so they could say they did something?!?!? They claim to admit there's a problem, they do some work, and they don't bother testing it?!? Are you kidding me?!?!

Everyone with this problem MUST CALL and register that it's still a problem, otherwise it will never get fixed!

Call 888-553-1555, and if you haven't already, register under the group ticket "MDES014229".

SURPRISE! Just called, and they claim the problem was fixed at 5:30am. Apparently these network techs just changed some hardware, but have no clue how to test it. I asked the tech support person, and he said "well, sir, they're just waiting for some people to call in if it's still a problem".

What?!? What are these guys doing?!?!? Did they just swap out some random hardware so they could say they did something?!?!? They claim to admit there's a problem, they do some work, and they don't bother testing it?!? Are you kidding me?!?!

Everyone with this problem MUST CALL and register that it's still a problem, otherwise it will never get fixed!

Call 888-553-1555, and if you haven't already, register under the group ticket "MDES014229".

Not fixed here. I called and was told we were issued a new ticket "MDES014244" with an ETC of 5PM.

Not fixed here. I called and was told we were issued a new ticket "MDES014244" with an ETC of 5PM.

I just called, and they claim the original MDES014229 is still open with an ETA of 7pm tonight. They refused to add me to the new ticket (they actually refused to even look at the new ticket, they would only look at the ticket already on my account).

The saga continues. These guys really have the worst customer service, and I thought DirecTV and Comcast were bad!

These guys really have the worst customer service, and I thought DirecTV and Comcast were bad!

I switched from Comcast to FiOS, but I used to think Comcast's service was generally pretty good. However, for more technical problems they were exactly the same. I would have an intermittent issue where I couldn't get an IP address from their DHCP server. My IP address would suddenly go to 0.0.0.0 and no number of release/renew operations would get a new one. Every time I called I had to go through their troubleshooting steps, even after explaining that I knew networking and the problem had to be at their end. After a while I just gave up calling, because somewhere between a few minutes and a few hours later the problem would resolve itself.

Still not working. Say what you will about Comcast, but personally, this is my worst customer service experience ever by far. Just got done with my daily call to Verizon. They are still working the issue. I didn't get more than that before my phone quit working. I have Vonage VOIP and it has been very choppy since this https problem started. I suspect they are the same problem. Anyone else out there with FIOS having an issue with voice quality over VOIP? I went to speedtest.verizon.net and my speed is 4.3 down and 1.8 up. Not sure if that is good or bad.

Still not working. Say what you will about Comcast, but personally, this is my worst customer service experience ever by far. Just got done with my daily call to Verizon. They are still working the issue. I didn't get more than that before my phone quit working. I have Vonage VOIP and it has been very choppy since this https problem started. I suspect they are the same problem. Anyone else out there with FIOS having an issue with voice quality over VOIP? I went to speedtest.verizon.net and my speed is 4.3 down and 1.8 up. Not sure if that is good or bad.

Speedtest.net consistently shows good bandwidth, so unfortunately it's not an indicator of the problem.

This smells like some weird "smart firewall" problem, not a hardware problem. Tracert's seem to be working fine, pings are fast, etc. So the network routing all seems good, it must a logical traffic thing on their side.

It seems like all outgoing (from our homes) binary and/or encrypted traffic is being slowed to a crawl. I started a web server to test some things, and the HTML is downloaded right away, but the pictures never get out. Remote Desktop simply never connects. And yet I can ping my router, and it's quick to send me HTML. Weird.

For you conspriracy theorists - perhaps this is a result of a government tool being inserted to sniff all our traffic? It would explain why Verizon keeps deleting nearly every post about this issue from their boards (they deleted mine in about 12 hours, and it was friendly).

Yes, outbound seems to be affected for my phone as well. I can hear people just fine, but they can't hear me very well.

Speedtest.net consistently shows good bandwidth, so unfortunately it's not an indicator of the problem.

This smells like some weird "smart firewall" problem, not a hardware problem. Tracert's seem to be working fine, pings are fast, etc. So the network routing all seems good, it must a logical traffic thing on their side.

It seems like all outgoing (from our homes) binary and/or encrypted traffic is being slowed to a crawl. I started a web server to test some things, and the HTML is downloaded right away, but the pictures never get out. Remote Desktop simply never connects. And yet I can ping my router, and it's quick to send me HTML. Weird.

For you conspriracy theorists - perhaps this is a result of a government tool being inserted to sniff all our traffic? It would explain why Verizon keeps deleting nearly every post about this issue from their boards (they deleted mine in about 12 hours, and it was friendly).

Pings, tracert working show that your connectivity is fine. They both use ICMP packets (echo) to check basic connectivity, but don't address specific port numbers (except for some UNIX/Linux systems, port 3000+ there). Since you have basic access to HTTP (regular web browsing), then you know that port 80 (or 8080) access is doing fine as well.

HTTPS (port 443), is a handshaking protocol to provide encoded access; it is active in many applications like VoIP, IM, bank transactions, etc. that want secure validation. If the problem is selectively shutting off HTTPS, while allowing HTTP access, then it is a filtering or port problem.

It may be tied to a firewall somewhere along the pipeline, or some filter that is being put in place inadvertently. It won't affect your access speed as measured by any internet metering tool, since that is not using HTTPS.

Sounds like they have some firewall policies or hardware to troubleshoot.

We just tried tracetcp and it is getting through ok as well. Suspect corruption/mangling of data now. See dslreports.com thread for more info on the current debugging effort.

"tracetcp is a command line traceroute utility for WIN32 that uses TCP SYN packets rather than ICMP/UDP packets that the usual implementations use, thus bypassing gateways that block traditional traceroute packets.

In addition to providing the functionality of the standard traceroute utility tracetcp allows a trace to be performed over any TCP port. This allows the discovery of what ports a filewall blocks & and also the presence of any transparent proxies that have been put in place."

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21563924-northeast-HTTPS-problem~start=60

Not fixed here. I called and was told we were issued a new ticket "MDES014244" with an ETC of 5PM.

Preliminary report from my 16-year-old daughter is that things are working as of 3:50 p.m.. She is able to sign on to Facebook, AOL and Rhapsody.

D.C. Council Gives FiOS TV Green Light

Verizon Awarded 15-Year Franchise for District of Columbia

By Todd Spangler -- Multichannel News, 12/16/2008 1:45:00 PM

The Washington, D.C. city council approved a 15-year cable franchise with Verizon Communications, which expects to start offering its FiOS TV service to residents starting in 2009 in competition with Comcast.

The Council of the District of Columbia on Tuesday passed legislation granting Verizon the cable franchise unanimously (with one abstention). The legislation must be approved by Mayor Adrian Fenty.

Under the terms of the franchise, Verizon will make FiOS TV available throughout D.C. over the next nine years.

“The D.C. Council today has taken a bold step forward for residents who deserve more choice in who provides their pay-TV service,” William Roberts, Verizon regional president for Maryland and Washington, D.C., said in a statement.

According to Verizon, the franchise—as previously negotiated with the District of Columbia Office of Cable Television—commits to nine public, educational and government channels, with the possibility of adding five more; support for those channels in the form of a 3% fee on gross revenues, and an "extensive and appropriate set of customer service provisions."

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6623256.html

Anyone else out there with FIOS having an issue with voice quality over VOIP? I went to speedtest.verizon.net and my speed is 4.3 down and 1.8 up. Not sure if that is good or bad.
I'm in Centreville, VA and don't have VOIP (I have the Extreme HD triple bundle - 20/5) and I've noticed that my internet speed has tanked of late. I went to speedtest.verizon.net (thanks for pointing that out) and was clocking in at 5.807 Mbps up and 2.169 Mbps down. After running the FiOS optimizer I'm now at 12.021 Mbps up and 4.659 Mbps down. Still not close to the advertised 20 up.

I've never been able to hit anything close to 20 up on any web-based speedtest, but I can do it when uploading via FTP, torrents, or other data-oriented protocols. Web browsers aren't particularly optimized for uploading large amounts of data.

I've never been able to hit anything close to 20 up on any web-based speedtest, but I can do it when uploading via FTP, torrents, or other data-oriented protocols. Web browsers aren't particularly optimized for uploading large amounts of data.I can hit 20Mbps download all day using the speakeasy speed test: http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

Isn't there another forum for FIOS non-HD discussions?

Preliminary report from my 16-year-old daughter is that things are working as of 3:50 p.m.. She is able to sign on to Facebook, AOL and Rhapsody.

It appears all is working for me as well. Of course, I got a call at 4pm saying they fixed it at 5:30am, which is completely untrue, but that's just par for the course with these guys.

My only hope is that their service is as reliable as it historically has been, so I never need to call them again (this is only the second problem in 4 years... but handling even one problem like they did is the quickest way to lose customers...)

Comcast using RG11, LMAO! You're lucky if you get RGQ6 coming into your home here!

HSN HD shows up in the guide, but when I try to select it, I get a message saying it's unable to tune the channel. I can't key it in directly, either. Anybody else have this problem? My wife is going nuts over this. I have the HD Extreme package.

HSN HD shows up in the guide, but when I try to select it, I get a message saying it's unable to tune the channel. I can't key it in directly, either. Anybody else have this problem? My wife is going nuts over this. I have the HD Extreme package.

It means it either a) has not been added at your VHO yet or b) there is a problem at your CO.

What area are you located in? It has not been added everywhere yet. For the record it is just a stretched version of their SD channel, no HD content.

I've never been able to hit anything close to 20 up on any web-based speedtest, but I can do it when uploading via FTP, torrents, or other data-oriented protocols. Web browsers aren't particularly optimized for uploading large amounts of data.

I can hit 20Mbps download all day using the speakeasy speed test: http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/
Read my post again. Upload is the problem on web-based speedtests, not download.

Read my post again. Upload is the problem on web-based speedtests, not download.


You should be able to 20mbs upload anytime of day depending on the location used.
I'm on the 50/20 tier and I max my download and upload(or at least 85% of my upload speed(17mbs)) with that site to several of the locations(bottom 4)), anytime of the day, any day of the week.

I'm in Centreville, VA and don't have VOIP (I have the Extreme HD triple bundle - 20/5) and I've noticed that my internet speed has tanked of late. I went to speedtest.verizon.net (thanks for pointing that out) and was clocking in at 5.807 Mbps up and 2.169 Mbps down. After running the FiOS optimizer I'm now at 12.021 Mbps up and 4.659 Mbps down. Still not close to the advertised 20 up.

I've never hit close to my max speeds using the verizon tests(i've been on FIOS internet since Summer 2007, 30/5 initially and now 50/20 since June). But with other test sites and actual downloading and uploading of large files. I hit my 50mbs down and 20mbs up speed regularly.

It means it either a) has not been added at your VHO yet or b) there is a problem at your CO.

What area are you located in? It has not been added everywhere yet. For the record it is just a stretched version of their SD channel, no HD content.

I'm in Long Beach, CA. Thanks for the heads up on content. I'm seeing that a lot on these HD channels.

has anyone tried to compare the PQ of OTA (using their TV's built in ATSC tuner) with fios local channels?

I have a rooftop antenna so I have both a fios 6xxx box and antenna hooked to my 52" sony bravia lcd. I calibrated both inputs identically and compared PQ of HD (specifically: Letterman and Leno). It's close, but OTA looks slightly clearer and sharper. It's not a huge difference, but I'd say it's like the difference b/t a mid level set and the step-up model that people pay $500 extra for.

Now, it's pretty certain that verizon passes the signal through unmolested, so I'm inclined to think it's the fault of the 6xxx box. I'm using hdmi.

I may be biased here and of course I have to flip back and forth b/t the inputs and not doing a side by side comparison. But I get the feeling verizon is shortchanging us with their stb. (again, this is HD comparison; I didn't bother with SD).

Has anyone tried this? Or tried comparing PQ from a cablecard vs a stb. I'd like to hear their observation.

This is something that i don't think we are ever going to be able to objectively test outside of lab conditions with an ATSC transmitter.

Why? Calibration. I know you said you calibrated them the same, but how can you be sure? Until we can be certain that the OTA tuner source material is being displayed the same as the box input material, it's hard to make a judgement of quality. Really each input and each input source needs to be calibrated independently as each can vary a little bit in how they display. What we have here are two inputs that are both challenging to calibrate since we don't have control over the source material. The STB is a little bit easier because you can record HDNet's test pattern on saturday morning, but that's really only calibrating your set to HDNet. The OTA tuner is nearly impossible to calibrate since you can't exactly put a test pattern up on the screen.

Also, there are other variables to consider. Your TV may possibly have an excellent MPEG2 decoder for the OTA tuner while the STB is just average. Or, your HDMI input may not be quite as good as the internal interconnect between the OTA tuner and the display. On someone else's TV, they may have a mediocre mpeg2 decoder with the OTA tuner and the STB may provider a cleaner picture.

Wow, that sounds like a lot of rambling. I guess what it really boils down to is a lot of YMMV.

It is worth it to note that the QIP6416 uses the same broadcom chip as the Tivo Series3 and DirecTV HR20.

has anyone tried to compare the PQ of OTA (using their TV's built in ATSC tuner) with fios local channels?

IHas anyone tried this? Or tried comparing PQ from a cablecard vs a stb. I'd like to hear their observation.

I have a roof antenna, Fios Cable hooked directly to my 52" Sharp LCD with QAM tuner,Linksys Media Center Extender,Xbox360 Media Center Extender.

I am pretty sure that any difference you are seeing is due to the equipment.

My XBOX picture looks the same as my OTA antenna picture whereas the Linksys picture is ever so slightly less bright.

The Cable directly to my TV looks the same as my Roof antenna.

The reason I have 2 Extenders is that I use one Media Center with 2 cable Card tuners to handle the Non-local Cable stations and the other Media Center PC with a Homerun to handle the Local Stations.

All the HDMI switching is done via my Denon Receiver so I only need to calibrate one HDMI input

has anyone tried to compare the PQ of OTA (using their TV's built in ATSC tuner) with fios local channels?



I have FIOS and OTA connected to four of my TiVos. The same HD program recorded from OTA and from FIOS looks identical and the last time i checked, they both used the same amount of hard drive space.

has anyone tried to compare the PQ of OTA (using their TV's built in ATSC tuner) with fios local channels?



That was one of the first things I did when I initially got FIOS. With every other provider I've had (Cablevision & D*), the OTA picture was always better. With FIOS there is no difference at all.

I am pretty sure that any difference you are seeing is due to the equipment.



I have FIOS and OTA connected to four of my TiVos. The same HD program recorded from OTA and from FIOS looks identical and the last time i checked, they both used the same amount of hard drive space.


yeah, I'm pretty sure the signal is the same, especially since it's just mpeg2 in both cases, so the difference is one going through the TV's internal decoder and the other going through the Motorola box. Plus Verizon probably adds their own special "sauce" to the video processor with their firmware too.

Wouldn't this depend on the quality of the scaler of your TV? Since the FiOS STB will either give you 1080i or 1080p, if the source signal is from a 720p channel, the FiOS STB will automatically scale it to 1080p (or 1080i, if you choose) and pass it to your TV. If your 1080p TV scaler is better, your picture from the OTA 720p channel should be better.

If you set the STB for 1080i out and the source is from a 1080i channel, then the picture on your TV should look exactly the same as an OTA 1080i channel on your TV, since the signal should be the same and only your TV is doing the deinterlacing in both cases.

If you set the STB to 1080i and the source is 720p, then the STB has to upscale the signal to 1080p, then interlace it to 1080i. Then your TV has to deinterlace it to 1080p. Seems like with all that processing, it would look worse than your TV picking up a 720p signal OTA.

I don't believe the firmware does any special processing of HD signals, only SD, and only when using HDMI. There are differences in the quality of decoders depending on the accuracy of the iDCT being performed among other things, so it is certainly possible that the decoder in the box will look better or worse than one in a TV.

The FiOS STB doesn't give 1080p, only 720p or 1080i. There is no scaling to 1080p involved when converting 720p to 1080i; 1280x720 frames are scaled to form 1920x540 fields. There is unavoidable loss of detail when converting between formats like this (in either direction) so watching a non-native format will almost certainly look worse on a 1080p TV than using the builtin tuner.

There is no scaling to 1080p involved when converting 720p to 1080i; 1280x720 frames are scaled to form 1920x540 fields.

- There is scaling involved to get 1280 up to 1920. And I would think that it'd be easier to scale the whole frame from 720 up to 1080 and then break it into two 540 fields than to play with every other line of a 720 frame to get it to two 540 fields. So effectively you scale 720p to 1080p, then interlace it to get 1080i. So while the STB doesn't output 1080p from a 720p source, seems like it would be easier to do that than to output 1080i signal from a 720p source.

- But that does bring up an interesting point. The STB has to do some work to turn a progressive scan signal to an interlaced one (generally, dump some data). Then your TV had to undo it (make up some data). Why would anybody want this?

- I would think the STB would offer a "through" function that would pass a 720p signal unmolested if it was coming from a 720p source and pass a 1080i signal unmolested if it was coming from a 1080i source instead of either/or. That way you wouldn't have any unnecessary processing depending on the source resolution and you can let your TV do all the work if you want. I believe the HD Tivo has this capability.

- There is scaling involved to get 1280 up to 1920. And I would think that it'd be easier to scale the whole frame from 720 up to 1080 and then break it into two 540 fields than to play with every other line of a 720 frame to get it to two 540 fields. So effectively you scale 720p to 1080p, then interlace it to get 1080i. So while the STB doesn't output 1080p from a 720p source, seems like it would be easier to do that than to output 1080i signal from a 720p source.
I didn't say there was no scaling, just that it wasn't to 1080p. Much easier to just take the 1280x720 frame and make it into a 1920x540 field. Frame 1 becomes the top field, 2 becomes the bottom field, 3 top, 4 bottom, and so on. 60 frames per second becomes 60 fields per second. Your way would require scaling to 1920x1080 at 60 frames per second, breaking them into fields, then throwing away half the fields. Not only would this require more computation power and memory, but it would also severely limit effective vertical resolution.

- But that does bring up an interesting point. The STB has to do some work to turn a progressive scan signal to an interlaced one (generally, dump some data). Then your TV had to undo it (make up some data). Why would anybody want this?
1080p TVs are relatively new on the market. Most older HDTVs were plasmas and CRTs running 1080i native, and some of those didn't support 720p as an input format. Also, some TVs just have really lousy scalers, so the box might be able to do a better job.

- I would think the STB would offer a "through" function that would pass a 720p signal unmolested if it was coming from a 720p source and pass a 1080i signal unmolested if it was coming from a 1080i source instead of either/or. That way you wouldn't have any unnecessary processing depending on the source resolution and you can let your TV do all the work if you want. I believe the HD Tivo has this capability.
Agreed. Motorola's boxes don't offer this feature, though pretty much everything else on the market does. Native mode is one of the two things I miss about Cox's HD service, the other being the ability to use eSATA to expand storage space.

has anyone tried to compare the PQ of OTA (using their TV's built in ATSC tuner) with fios local channels?

I have a rooftop antenna so I have both a fios 6xxx box and antenna hooked to my 52" sony bravia lcd. I calibrated both inputs identically and compared PQ of HD (specifically: Letterman and Leno). It's close, but OTA looks slightly clearer and sharper. It's not a huge difference, but I'd say it's like the difference b/t a mid level set and the step-up model that people pay $500 extra for.

Now, it's pretty certain that verizon passes the signal through unmolested, so I'm inclined to think it's the fault of the 6xxx box. I'm using hdmi.

I may be biased here and of course I have to flip back and forth b/t the inputs and not doing a side by side comparison. But I get the feeling verizon is shortchanging us with their stb. (again, this is HD comparison; I didn't bother with SD).

Has anyone tried this? Or tried comparing PQ from a cablecard vs a stb. I'd like to hear their observation.

Try hooking up Component rather than HDMI. Some STBs play with your TV's settings when using HDMI. When I go HDMI, I have to create a custom setting on my TV and tweak everything to get everything correct. When I use Component, everything is perfect with the set's "Normal" setting.

That is probably accounting for the differences you are seeing, not the bit-rate that Verizon is delivering.

Has anyone ever confirmed (with a QAM tuner most likely) that verizon sends anything other than 1080i down the pipe?

Not that it matters much for me. The only thing local in 720p is my Fox affiliate. Even my ABC affiliate scales the 720p ABC feed to 1080i before transmission.

I would imagine that they don't want to spend the time on adding passthrough right now since most networks will likely move to mpeg4 for distribution anyways so they are going to have to transcode the signal regardless. In those cases, the idea of 'native' really doesn't matter much anymore.

fwiw, I was looking at NBC and CBS and my stb is set for 1080i, so 1080i/720p conversion issues don't apply.

Has anyone ever confirmed (with a QAM tuner most likely) that verizon sends anything other than 1080i down the pipe?....
One of my sets flashes the resolution onto the screen corner when you change channels, and 720p and 1080i both exist.

I went to the guide, selected the Bio HD channel (629) and they're showing the Crime and Investigation network HD (some segment about women prisoners with Bill Kurtis).

has anyone tried to compare the PQ of OTA (using their TV's built in ATSC tuner) with fios local channels?

I have a rooftop antenna so I have both a fios 6xxx box and antenna hooked to my 52" sony bravia lcd. I calibrated both inputs identically and compared PQ of HD (specifically: Letterman and Leno). It's close, but OTA looks slightly clearer and sharper. It's not a huge difference, but I'd say it's like the difference b/t a mid level set and the step-up model that people pay $500 extra for.

Now, it's pretty certain that verizon passes the signal through unmolested, so I'm inclined to think it's the fault of the 6xxx box. I'm using hdmi.

I may be biased here and of course I have to flip back and forth b/t the inputs and not doing a side by side comparison. But I get the feeling verizon is shortchanging us with their stb. (again, this is HD comparison; I didn't bother with SD).

Has anyone tried this? Or tried comparing PQ from a cablecard vs a stb. I'd like to hear their observation.

I believe your TV has a QAM tuner. Bypass the 6xxx box and view the Verizon feed directly. This will take the box out of the equation.

The other thing that can affect what Verizon gives you is how they get the signal. I don't know where you are located, but its possible that there is some downgrade in the feed that is sent to Verizon in your particular area.

Has anyone ever confirmed (with a QAM tuner most likely) that verizon sends anything other than 1080i down the pipe?

Not that it matters much for me. The only thing local in 720p is my Fox affiliate. Even my ABC affiliate scales the 720p ABC feed to 1080i before transmission.

I would imagine that they don't want to spend the time on adding passthrough right now since most networks will likely move to mpeg4 for distribution anyways so they are going to have to transcode the signal regardless. In those cases, the idea of 'native' really doesn't matter much anymore.
]

My cablecard shows that they use 1920x1080 and 1280x720 for HD.

Has anyone ever confirmed (with a QAM tuner most likely) that verizon sends anything other than 1080i down the pipe?

Not that it matters much for me. The only thing local in 720p is my Fox affiliate. Even my ABC affiliate scales the 720p ABC feed to 1080i before transmission.

I would imagine that they don't want to spend the time on adding passthrough right now since most networks will likely move to mpeg4 for distribution anyways so they are going to have to transcode the signal regardless. In those cases, the idea of 'native' really doesn't matter much anymore.

That's just crazy talk. ATSC is a standard that only supports MPEG2, and it took them like 15 years to get people to accept it. Broadcast networks won't be changing to MPEG4 in any time sooner than another 15 years.

And to the second part of what you said, the encryption mechanism has nothing to do with native resolution. Why would you think MPEG4 has anything to do with making native resolution less relevant? The resolution of a video stream exists independently of the compression method.

Where do people come up with completely unfounded and bizarre statements like the above?

ATSC is a standard that only supports MPEG2, and it took them like 15 years to get people to accept it. Broadcast networks won't be changing to MPEG4 in any time sooner than another 15 years.Broadcasters could go mpeg4 in the future. But who knows, there could be an even more efficient compression scheme that coincides with Super/Ultra HD???????

Broadcasters could go mpeg4 in the future. But who knows, there could be an even more efficient compression scheme that coincides with Super/Ultra HD???????

Yes, and I could download my being into a computer in the future.

However the odds of it happening any time soon are zero.

Broadcasters going MPEG4 OTA likely won't happen within the next 20 years.

That was one of the first things I did when I initially got FIOS. With every other provider I've had (Cablevision & D*), the OTA picture was always better. With FIOS there is no difference at all.

I agree completely with Ken.

That's just crazy talk. ATSC is a standard that only supports MPEG2, and it took them like 15 years to get people to accept it. Broadcast networks won't be changing to MPEG4 in any time sooner than another 15 years.

And to the second part of what you said, the encryption mechanism has nothing to do with native resolution. Why would you think MPEG4 has anything to do with making native resolution less relevant? The resolution of a video stream exists independently of the compression method.

Where do people come up with completely unfounded and bizarre statements like the above?

It is not "unfounded" and "bizarre." Do you realize how many steps your programming takes to actually get to your TV? Networks have to distribute it to local affiliates, local affiliates have to distribute the content to cable and sat providers (very few actually pick their signals up OTA for retransmission on their systems.) Any one of those steps are prime candidates to move to MPEG4 to reap the benefits of reduced bandwidth requirements and none of them have anything to actually do with what is actually put out OTA. Networks like HBO have already transitioned to using MPEG4 to distribute their content to cable providers. Verizon has to transcode HBO to mpeg2 in order for the STBs to display the content.

And where the hell does encryption come into this? I didn't mention anything about encryption in my post. MPEG4 isn't encryption, it's a compression method. How this relates to resolution is simple. If you are going to transcode a signal from one compression algorithm to another compression algorithm, worrying about whether or not you are watching the programming at the "native" resolution becomes moot (and really, who knows if that's the resolution the material was shot at to begin with.) Really, what are the benefits of native passthrough on a signal that's been reprocessed so many times it bares little resemblance to what it started out like on the other end?

It is not "unfounded" and "bizarre." Do you realize how many steps your programming takes to actually get to your TV? Networks have to distribute it to local affiliates, local affiliates have to distribute the content to cable and sat providers (very few actually pick their signals up OTA for retransmission on their systems.) Any one of those steps are prime candidates to move to MPEG4 to reap the benefits of reduced bandwidth requirements and none of them have anything to actually do with what is actually put out OTA. Networks like HBO have already transitioned to using MPEG4 to distribute their content to cable providers. Verizon has to transcode HBO to mpeg2 in order for the STBs to display the content.

And where the hell does encryption come into this? I didn't mention anything about encryption in my post. MPEG4 isn't encryption, it's a compression method. How this relates to resolution is simple. If you are going to transcode a signal from one compression algorithm to another compression algorithm, worrying about whether or not you are watching the programming at the "native" resolution becomes moot (and really, who knows if that's the resolution the material was shot at to begin with.) Really, what are the benefits of native passthrough on a signal that's been reprocessed so many times it bares little resemblance to what it started out like on the other end?

HBO doesn't transmit OTA. The broadcast networks do. ATSC is MPEG2, not MPEG4. Broadcast networks won't change to MPEG4 within the next 20 years. We were talking about broadcast networks.

(And I meant encoding, not encryption... and my point still stands - the encodin mechanism doesn't make the native resolution irrelevant.)

I have FIOS and OTA connected to four of my TiVos. The same HD program recorded from OTA and from FIOS looks identical and the last time i checked, they both used the same amount of hard drive space.This is still the case (within 0.01Gb or so).

HBO doesn't transmit OTA. The broadcast networks do. ATSC is MPEG2, not MPEG4. Broadcast networks won't change to MPEG4 within the next 20 years. We were talking about broadcast networks.

(And I meant encoding, not encryption... and my point still stands - the encodin mechanism doesn't make the native resolution irrelevant.)

And you still completely miss the point. It doesn't matter that the local networks aren't going to move away from MPEG2 for their OTA transmissions any time soon, their private transmissions between other links in their chain could very well transition to MPEG4 in the future. As more and more content becomes HD, there's quite a bit of money to be saved in optimizing the distribution chain and a more efficient codec is one of the easiest ways to do it. So, while your OTA broadcast you are getting is MPEG2, it may have transitioned from MPEG2 to MPEG4 back to MPEG2 before it ever got to you. It also may have been MPEG4 up until the point it was broadcast.

And yes, transcoding can very well make the native resolution irrelevant. Without knowing the specifics of how the transcoding equipment operates, you cannot say definitively one way or another. It's not unheard of for a transcoding process to involve a scaling step to make for a more efficient encode. With the way the industry seems to have standardized around 1080i for the most part, it wouldn't surprise me to find equipment in the field that scales an interlaces the 720p input to 1080i, transcodes the content, and then scales back to 720p. My point is, this desire to have native passthough is probably very low priority to add as a feature because the advantages are dubious at best. I find it very unlikely that "native" 720p content hasn't been scaled at some point in its distribution and there's even the possibility that it's been interlaced and de-interlaced somewhere along the way too.

My local ABC affiliate is a prime example of this previous point. ABC is 720p, but my local affiliate broadcasts exclusively in 1080i. Why? 1080i equipment is more common and it's easier for them to work with a 1080i workflow in house so all ABC content gets scaled to 1080i from 720p.

Also, if you want to get pedantic, h264 has been part of the ATSC specification since July of 2008. It is extremely unlikely that local channels will broadcast MPEG4 OTA due to compatibility issues with tuners already on the market, but the blanket statement of "ATSC is MPEG2" is false. The ATSC spec allows for either MPEG2 or MPEG4.

HBO doesn't transmit OTA. The broadcast networks do. ATSC is MPEG2, not MPEG4. Broadcast networks won't change to MPEG4 within the next 20 years. We were talking about broadcast networks.

(And I meant encoding, not encryption... and my point still stands - the encodin mechanism doesn't make the native resolution irrelevant.)

No broadcast networks transmits ATSC or OTA. The local stations do.

The Broadcast networks are already moving to distribute their programming in MPEG4.

There is also a way being discussed to Broadcast MPEG4 OTA and keep compatiability (you only need MPEG2 for the data on your main channel to be compliant), even though it wastes a ton of bandwidth.

Also, if you want to get pedantic, h264 has been part of the ATSC specification since July of 2008. It is extremely unlikely that local channels will broadcast MPEG4 OTA due to compatibility issues with tuners already on the market, but the blanket statement of "ATSC is MPEG2" is false. The ATSC spec allows for either MPEG2 or MPEG4.

Correct

Where is everybody? I really enjoy this forum and have learned a lot from it. Merry Christmas to all.

Everyone is probably all wrapped up in the Holidays. Plus, there's not much to discuss since most shows are on hiatus and there aren't any new service changes in the immediate future.

On another note, it looks like others have finally picked up on my audio quality issues on Comedy Central (as well as others that people have reported) and we actually have a tech's attention this time.

http://forums.verizon.com/vrzn/board/message?board.id=FiOS_TV&thread.id=4792

Can someone help me?

I just upgraded to FIOS from Comcast HD here in Northern Jersey and I have a problem.

They gave me a Motorolla QIP 7100 HD box that seems to be having some kind of handshaking issue with my Onkyo SR-706 receiver hooked up through HDMI. Once I turn the box on I get a picture for like 30 seconds then I get a green screen but still have audio. If I change inputs on the receiver and back to the cable box the picture returns and goes out again after a few seconds.

I hooked the cable box up directly to the T.V. and everything seems normal. I would rather have the receiver handle audio and video. Is there anyone out there that has experienced this?

I had that issue with my box at one point. I am trying to remember how I fixed it. I think I had to go into the setting in the cable box and change the output resolution and turn off any SD upscaling. I don't remember what I changed it from/to, but I am pretty sure that is what fixed it though. I think I have it set to 1080i now?

.

I changed my existing Fios ala carte service over to the Extreme HD and 20/5 Internet service this afternoon. The rep I spoke with said that the change in internet would happen tonight (well, last night now that I am looking at the time). He then told me that the additional channels will not be available to me until 1/6/09. As part of my bundling package, I get a DVR rent free for 3 months. The DVR will ship to me on 1/6/09 as well. What seems a bit odd to me is that most of the newer HD channels are definitely available in my area right now. Is it not possible for Verizon to "flip a switch" and activate the available additional channels ala Comcast? Or did I get a rep who was clueless and need to call back to get the service operating properly?

Anyone having pixelation problems on FIOS in DFW area??

It seems to only affect the local HD channels. Ive tried recycling the Tivo and no dice. It seems to be the signal.

Its been happening for a couple days now.

Any ideas?

...Or did I get a rep who was clueless and need to call back to get the service operating properly?
I would call back. They should be able to update your service quickly.

I changed my existing Fios ala carte service over to the Extreme HD and 20/5 Internet service this afternoon. The rep I spoke with said that the change in internet would happen tonight (well, last night now that I am looking at the time). He then told me that the additional channels will not be available to me until 1/6/09. As part of my bundling package, I get a DVR rent free for 3 months. The DVR will ship to me on 1/6/09 as well. What seems a bit odd to me is that most of the newer HD channels are definitely available in my area right now. Is it not possible for Verizon to "flip a switch" and activate the available additional channels ala Comcast? Or did I get a rep who was clueless and need to call back to get the service operating properly?

I did that switch, it happened very quickly.

I changed my existing Fios ala carte service over to the Extreme HD and 20/5 Internet service this afternoon. The rep I spoke with said that the change in internet would happen tonight (well, last night now that I am looking at the time). He then told me that the additional channels will not be available to me until 1/6/09. As part of my bundling package, I get a DVR rent free for 3 months. The DVR will ship to me on 1/6/09 as well. What seems a bit odd to me is that most of the newer HD channels are definitely available in my area right now. Is it not possible for Verizon to "flip a switch" and activate the available additional channels ala Comcast? Or did I get a rep who was clueless and need to call back to get the service operating properly?

Most likely, the STB and Extreme upgrade are on the same service order. The order system does not allow for multiple pending orders, hence the upgrade will occur when the box order is complete.

I changed my existing Fios ala carte service over to the Extreme HD and 20/5 Internet service this afternoon. The rep I spoke with said that the change in internet would happen tonight (well, last night now that I am looking at the time). He then told me that the additional channels will not be available to me until 1/6/09. As part of my bundling package, I get a DVR rent free for 3 months. The DVR will ship to me on 1/6/09 as well. What seems a bit odd to me is that most of the newer HD channels are definitely available in my area right now. Is it not possible for Verizon to "flip a switch" and activate the available additional channels ala Comcast? Or did I get a rep who was clueless and need to call back to get the service operating properly?
There's a deal here in NY that may or may not be available in your area :

For $5 more per month my internet was upgraded from 20/5 to 20/20 PLUS
1gb of online storage space.

I had fios service installed on the 18th. The tech was super cool with the install and worked his but off getting things perfect. I have the triple play Ex HD pack with the 20/5 internet and am impressed. 70 more HD channels then Charter, double the download speed and $120 less then what I was paying :D I just turned in my equipment for Charter and told them exactly why... Seams they are loosing customers by the droves since fios became an option here (since Nov). So far Verizon customer service has been very good with polite agents :)

Cheers,
Jeff

anyone in SEVA experiencing issues with SmithsonianHD? I've got weird "blocked" lines popping across the screen and some audi issues. it's deifnately relegated to only that channel. everything else is great. any insight?

Interesting.

From all the people I have spoken with the VOOM 32 on FIOS is a go. Who knows Maybe Cablevision will sell out to Verizon.

Its a very interesting time we live in. :)

I still love that post on the first page.

Interesting.

From all the people I have spoken with the VOOM 32 on FIOS is a go. Who knows Maybe Cablevision will sell out to Verizon.

Its a very interesting time we live in. :)

I still love that post on the first page.
That's depressing.


Merry Christmas Fios-ers.

There wasn't any demand for Voom when it was the only HD game in town and there certainly isn't today now that just about every "regular" channel is available in HD. Monsters HD, meh.

Anyone having pixelation problems on FIOS in DFW area??

It seems to only affect the local HD channels. Ive tried recycling the Tivo and no dice. It seems to be the signal.

Its been happening for a couple days now.

Any ideas?No problem over here with any of the channels...FiOS HD DVR, Sony HD DVR w/CableCard, or CableCard on the Mits TV.

No problem over here with any of the channels...FiOS HD DVR, Sony HD DVR w/CableCard, or CableCard on the Mits TV.

It turns out that the cable cards may be going bad in my Tivo S3. My other TV is not showing this problem and its only on channels with high frequencies. Verizon is sending someone out on Monday to replace them.

I have to say their service used to be TERRIBLE, but the last couple times I've called them, they have been MUCH better. They actually offered to send someone out yesterday afternoon, but I was going to be away.

It turns out that the cable cards may be going bad in my Tivo S3. My other TV is not showing this problem and its only on channels with high frequencies. Verizon is sending someone out on Monday to replace them.

I have to say their service used to be TERRIBLE, but the last couple times I've called them, they have been MUCH better. They actually offered to send someone out yesterday afternoon, but I was going to be away.

The "internal" security card on my Dish Network's 622 DVR receiver went bad after replacing the SECOND card (and this is to occur every month as their measure to counteract "fraud", or so I was told by some of their regular reps!) I was sent in less than 2 months; a call to their tech. reps. resulted in my supposedly getting a replacement 622 unit before the week is out. Now I have no signal--only a "warning" message that my card needs to be replaced! Am so peed off with DN that am switching over to FIOs asap!
Enough is enough, Dish Network!... :mad:

-THTS

You'll be very pleased with the picture quality from FIOS. As well as your Internet speed too.

Making the switch from Comcast to FIOS and reading up to prepare. A couple of questions:

Can anyone confirm that the Home Media-DVR can only stream recorded content to a non-DVR box (STB_HD)?

Is there no PIP - seems I keep hearing that?

Is the Guide that bad - I was not blown away by Comcasts's?

Any suggestions for how to handle the email switch - when I notify Comcast I am leaving, what happens to email sent to my comcast.net address?

Thanks.

Email will bounce back to the sender I believe and it will tell them no such address exists. Best of my recollection from when I switched.

Making the switch from Comcast to FIOS and reading up to prepare. A couple of questions:

Can anyone confirm that the Home Media-DVR can only stream recorded content to a non-DVR box (STB_HD)?

Is there no PIP - seems I keep hearing that?

Is the Guide that bad - I was not blown away by Comcasts's?

Any suggestions for how to handle the email switch - when I notify Comcast I am leaving, what happens to email sent to my comcast.net address?

Thanks.
When I left Comcast for FIOS, I just switched my Comcast email address to another family member so I wouldn't lose it. Maybe you have a friend or family member that will give you one of their 7 available email boxes. Just call Comcast and have them transfer it to their account.

Any suggestions for how to handle the email switch - when I notify Comcast I am leaving, what happens to email sent to my comcast.net address?

Thanks.

I left Comcast months ago... all my Comcast email addresses still work today :)

However, I used that time to migrate my email base to my new YAHOO email address. Yes - it was a PITA. But, hopefully, I will never have that problem again.

Moving to an area that has Verizon Fios. Can someone please let me know if Fios HDTV is better than either TW cable TV or Direct TV for picture quality.
cheers

Yes on both counts. DirecTV's advantages are more out-of-market sports available in HD with the various packages and a better DVR interface than what FiOS has. FiOS has better HD PQ, more legit HD channels, and HD VOD. Time Warner has...no advantages.

I know we have previews of the MLB Network on FiOS channel 86, but when I left for my holiday, there was nothing on 586 in the DC Metro area. Any chance this comes live on January 1st when the station goes live? Sorry if it's been covered, but I have limited internet access here and I'm just trying to check up on things while I'm away. Hoping somebody knows (as they usually do). Hope you had a nice christmas all.

There wasn't any demand for Voom when it was the only HD game in town and there certainly isn't today now that just about every "regular" channel is available in HD. Monsters HD, meh.

I dont debate that. I just chuckle at his "inside" sources.

I know we have previews of the MLB Network on FiOS channel 86, but when I left for my holiday, there was nothing on 586 in the DC Metro area. Any chance this comes live on January 1st when the station goes live? Sorry if it's been covered, but I have limited internet access here and I'm just trying to check up on things while I'm away. Hoping somebody knows (as they usually do). Hope you had a nice christmas all.

We got ESPNU HD at launch, so maybe there's hope.

NHL Network sure took a while to light up though. I guess it depends on whether MLB Network is subject to blackout requirements.

Making the switch from Comcast to FIOS and reading up to prepare. A couple of questions:

Can anyone confirm that the Home Media-DVR can only stream recorded content to a non-DVR box (STB_HD)?


Confirmed


Is there no PIP - seems I keep hearing that?


Confirmed


Is the Guide that bad - I was not blown away by Comcasts's?


Depends on your definition of bad - I've seen worse.


Any suggestions for how to handle the email switch - when I notify Comcast I am leaving, what happens to email sent to my comcast.net address?


Get an free account from someone that will be in business for years to come (gmail etc) and use that instead of one tied to a paid provider.

Or get your own domain with unlimited email addresses for only around $4 a month. At least that is what I pay for each of my 3 domains.

I left Comcast months ago... all my Comcast email addresses still work today :)We terminated Comcast back in March and our emails addresses are still active...I even have a really old Adelphia account that is still active.

I have been getting a fair bit of pixillation since my Fios install a few weeks ago. Is there any way to tell if it is from too hot or too week a signal based on the following results?

I ran the self diagnostic and got 25 db for the OOB S/N ratio.
In the service menu, under "In Band status" the SNR varied between 35 and 38 db over the two minutes or so I watched it, with no errors, and a "good" AGC on both tuners.

Can some of you more knowledgeable guys translate that into a 5th grade level for me? Cheers.

I have been getting a fair bit of pixillation since my Fios install a few weeks ago. Is there any way to tell if it is from too hot or too week a signal based on the following results?

I ran the self diagnostic and got 25 db for the OOB S/N ratio.
In the service menu, under "In Band status" the SNR varied between 35 and 38 db over the two minutes or so I watched it, with no errors, and a "good" AGC on both tuners.

Can some of you more knowledgeable guys translate that into a 5th grade level for me? Cheers.

It's not SNR - its signal level roughly higher than 6db.

It's not SNR - its signal level roughly higher than 6db.

And translated to 5th grade level, that means what?
Cheers

I saw that a few days ago Verizon had brought up the NHL Network here in NY. Anybody know if they're running a free trial or have they decided to included in the Extreme HD as had been advertised? I only ask because I had been previously told by Verizon that here in what they consider "lower" NY, the five buroughs and Rockland/Westchester, I would have to purchase the Sports package to receive NHL Net.

And translated to 5th grade level, that means what?
Cheers

it means is your signal level is over roughly 5db or 6db, you get breakups.

In a perfect world, the STB should get 0db signal.

What does it mean.....

put 150 Volts into your TV (or any electronic equipment) and if the fuse doesnt blow first, watch what happens when the current is too hight.

same thing with the signal.

it means is your signal level is over roughly 5db or 6db, you get breakups.

So I need to attenuate the signal by 5 - 6db, and see if that cures my problem? I have a couple of spare 1ghz splitters lying around, which I should be able to use to do this (If I remember, each one is 3.5 db). And if that cures it, long term I will buy an actual attenuator. Thank you so much for your help.

Be sure to terminate the second port with a 75 ohm resistive load. Commercial ones look like a cap but have a resistor hidden inside.

I saw that a few days ago Verizon had brought up the NHL Network here in NY. Anybody know if they're running a free trial or have they decided to included in the Extreme HD as had been advertised? I only ask because I had been previously told by Verizon that here in what they consider "lower" NY, the five buroughs and Rockland/Westchester, I would have to purchase the Sports package to receive NHL Net.
I'm almost certain that you have to have the Sports Package to have NHL Network.

[QUOTE=FAZ8218;15404073]I'm almost certain that you have to have the Sports Package to have NHL Network.[/QUOTE

Like I said, that's what I finally got out of Verizon after quite a run-around but then 4-5 days ago, there it was. I guess they're doing some kind of free-trial for the Sports Package even though the guide says that you just need Extreme HD.

Sports package is included in Extreme HD, at least it is in my area. I'm only subscribed to Extreme HD and I've had the sports channels since October (including, now, the NHL network.)

I think in most areas, Sports Package is included in Extreme HD. I think there are some NY or NJ areas where it is not (but the Extreme HD package is also less there which offsets the difference.)

Sports package is included in Extreme HD, at least it is in my area. I'm only subscribed to Extreme HD and I've had the sports channels since October (including, now, the NHL network.)

I think in most areas, Sports Package is included in Extreme HD. I think there are some NY or NJ areas where it is not (but the Extreme HD package is also less there which offsets the difference.)

I'm in the NY area and it hasn't been included until recently. Like I said, probably a free demo. I also wasn't aware that Extreme HD was more expensive elsewhere. It would be easier to swallow if they just bumped up the price of Extreme HD a few bucks and threw in the Sports package. Knowing it's included elsewhere has been eating at me for a month or two. Guess I'll enjoy it as long as it's there. Thanks.

Upstate NY here.... Extreme HD here includes the sports package and NHL is now part of that line up. I have been enjoying the extra games -- especially in HD.

Trying to get a handle on what we can expect from Verizon in the new year since all of these announced channels seem to be hanging in purgatory at the moment. Here's a list with some starting info. If you have anything to add, please do:

Announced:

Cars.TV
Comedy.TV
ES.TV
MyDestination.TV
Pets.TV
Recipe.TV

CBS College Sports HD – Press release says 2009; will air 14 more NCAA BB games in HD this season with next game on 1/15/09 (blackout requirements?)
Crime & Investigation Network HD – An A&E Network; no press release, but “Coming Soon” in IMG
The Golf Channel HD – First 2009 PGA Tour event begins 1/8/09 (no blackout)
MLB Network HD – Original programming begins 1/1/09 @ 6:00 PM EST (no blackout?)
NBA TV – Current NBA regular season ends 04/15/09 (subject to blackout)
Team HD – Includes NBA League Pass, current regular season ends 04/15/09 (subject to blackout)

Limited:

Encore HD – Available to VHOs 4, ???
HSN HD – Available to VHOs 4, ???

I mention blackouts since those seem to require a bit more legwork to light up. If I'm wrong about anything, please correct.

My parents are thinking of getting FIOS.

They have a Sony 36XS955 HDTV which has an excellent internal scaler, and a CableCard slot.

I'm almost sure the CC slot will provide a far better picture than the set top box. They don't care about PPV/VOD type services.

So here are my questions.

1) Would anyone here say Yes, CableCard picture quality will be far superior to Set Top Box

2) How bad of a hit is losing the Interactive Channel Guide? It's not like TVGuide/Newspaper lists the 500 FIOS channels.

Topics merged.

Upstate NY here.... Extreme HD here includes the sports package and NHL is now part of that line up. I have been enjoying the extra games -- especially in HD.

Yeah, I knew upstate got the Sports package with Extreme. I know Rockland really isn't "upstate" but I don't consider it "downstate" either. I guess it benefits Verizon to put us there though.

So I know I brought up the question about MLB Network HD a couple of days ago while on vacation. Looking at it today, 586 no longer shows "MLB Network-- Coming Soon". I guess that pretty much answered my question.

No, channel 586 has never said MLB Network HD coming soon, not in VHO4.

** Please help ***

For the people that has FIOS, can you measure the EXACT width of the component (the box).

I am looking to buy this tv stand (console) and want to make sure my components fit side by side (total in width 34 1/8").

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8675356&type=product&id=1197075132023

I will be getting FIOS in Jan 16 next year. I am hoping its the standard size width which is a tick short of 17".

I am in the socal area. I am guessing all the boxes throughtout the region is the same.

TIA,
tony

No, channel 586 has never said MLB Network HD coming soon, not in VHO4.

Wow, am I totally imagining it? Thinking back, I honestly can't remember if it did have it listed, or if I'm just assuming it did along with all the other stuff that says "Coming Soon". I guess I'll just sit quietly and wait a few days and see what shows up. I doubt they are in any hurry to get it up in HD with the season not rolling around for a few more months.

** Please help ***

For the people that has FIOS, can you measure the EXACT width of the component (the box).

I am looking to buy this tv stand (console) and want to make sure my components fit side by side (total in width 34 1/8").

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8675356&type=product&id=1197075132023

I will be getting FIOS in Jan 16 next year. I am hoping its the standard size width which is a tick short of 17".

I am in the socal area. I am guessing all the boxes throughtout the region is the same.

TIA,
tony
Per the spec sheet:
Size 17.02 in. (43.23 cm) W, 10.78 in. (27.38 cm) D, 2.75 in. (7.00 cm) H

The 62xx and 64xx boxes use the same chassis.

Help me out here, please. What is a VHO? I've seen references to VHO4 etc. I assume it's a geo location. We're in Northern Virginia. Are we "in" a VHO? Does it have anything to do when new channels are scheduled to light up?

Thanks.

Bill-
VHO is the Video Headend that serves each region.

For example, VHO8 serves the Philly Metro area including DE and South Jersey.

There are currently 15 VHO's out there. Usually, new channels are added to a VHO one at a time, depending on work required. Sometimes though, a national launch will occur all at once (ESPNU HD, for example). Compare it to a cable headend that say, Comcast would use. It's where all of the video signals are gathered from the 2 Super Head Ends (SHE), and then mixed with your local channels and PEG's, along with On Demand, etc.

UR FLoor Matt-

Encore and HSN HD are also available in VHO8

Only news i've heard about January is having NBA TV turned on - haven't been given any additional information. MLB HD was not a requirement at launch, so look for that later down the road.

Help me out here, please. What is a VHO? I've seen references to VHO4 etc. I assume it's a geo location. We're in Northern Virginia. Are we "in" a VHO? Does it have anything to do when new channels are scheduled to light up?

Thanks.
I did a search of VH0's and found this list from a post of URFloorMatt's:

VHO 01
10/08/08 – North Texas (Realign; ~100HD)

VHO 02
10/07/08 – Florida Gulf Coast (Realign; ~100HD) (delayed from 10/02/08)

VHO 03
10/09/08 – Southern California (Realign; ~100HD)

VHO 04
09/18/08 – Anne Arundel/Howard County MD (Realign; ~50HD)
09/22/08 – Washington Metro (Realign; ~50HD)
09/30/08 – Baltimore MD (Realign; ~50HD)

VHO 05
07/28/08 – New York (Launch; ~100HD)

VHO 06
08/20/08 – Massachusetts (Realign; ~80HD)
08/21/08 – Rhode Island (Realign; ~80HD)

VHO 07
07/31/08 – Northern NJ (Realign; ~100HD)

VHO 08
08/29/08 – Central NJ (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/08/08 (~80HD**)
09/02/08 – Southern DE (Realign; ~80HD)
09/04/08 – Central DE (Realign; ~50HD) >>> 10/09/08 (~80HD**)
09/08/08 – Southern NJ (Realign; ~80HD)
09/08/08 – Northern DE (Realign; ~80HD) (moved up from 09/15/08)
09/10/08 – Mercer Co. NJ (Realign; ~80HD) (delayed from 08/27/08)
09/11/08 – Southeastern PA (Realign; ~80HD)

VHO 09
08/13/08 – Richmond VA (Realign; ~50HD)
08/14/08 – Hampton Roads VA (Realign; ~50HD)

VHO 10
06/30/08 – Fort Wayne IN (Realign; ~50HD)

VHO 11
08/12/08 – Pittsburgh PA (Realign; ~50HD) (delayed from 08/06/08)

VHO 12
07/21/08 – Portland OR (Realign; ~40HD*)

VHO 13
08/23/08 – Seattle WA (Launch; ~100HD)

VHO 14
09/15/08 – Buffalo NY (Launch; ~100HD)

Another Q on VH0's, I know that Texas was the first area in the country to get FiOS and they are VH01 - does that mean that the other VHO's indicate seniority (if you will) as to when FiOS went live?

I just measured my 6416 and the actual measurement is as stated on the spec sheet, width is 17.02".

Another Q on VH0's, I know that Texas was the first area in the country to get FiOS and they are VH01 - does that mean that the other VHO's indicate seniority (if you will) as to when FiOS went live?

For the majority, yes - there may be 1 or 2 that were "built" before another went "live", but for the most part, the # indicates age. :D

Also, VHO 15 is now for the Harrisburg, PA area.

I also believe VHO9 is actually divided in two, there's a VHO9a and a VHO9b.

Per the spec sheet:
Size 17.02 in. (43.23 cm) W, 10.78 in. (27.38 cm) D, 2.75 in. (7.00 cm) H

The 62xx and 64xx boxes use the same chassis.


Thank you and brcobb!!


Tony

Bill-
VHO is the Video Headend that serves each region.

For example, VHO8 serves the Philly Metro area including DE and South Jersey.

There are currently 15 VHO's out there. Usually, new channels are added to a VHO one at a time, depending on work required. Sometimes though, a national launch will occur all at once (ESPNU HD, for example). Compare it to a cable headend that say, Comcast would use. It's where all of the video signals are gathered from the 2 Super Head Ends (SHE), and then mixed with your local channels and PEG's, along with On Demand, etc.

UR FLoor Matt-

Encore and HSN HD are also available in VHO8

Only news i've heard about January is having NBA TV turned on - haven't been given any additional information. MLB HD was not a requirement at launch, so look for that later down the road.


Got it. Thanks a lot for your response, Matt. Very much appreciated.

Bill

I also believe VHO9 is actually divided in two, there's a VHO9a and a VHO9b.

Correct, there are two -- however to be picky they actually only are referred to as VHO9 (Richmond) and VHO9a (Hampton Roads) :)

** Please help ***

For the people that has FIOS, can you measure the EXACT width of the component (the box).

I am looking to buy this tv stand (console) and want to make sure my components fit side by side (total in width 34 1/8").

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8675356&type=product&id=1197075132023

I will be getting FIOS in Jan 16 next year. I am hoping its the standard size width which is a tick short of 17".Remember that any set top box you get needs at least 2 inches of ventilation on either side. And nothing on top. Here's a dump from the QIP6416-2 (HD DVR) owner's manual:

Important Safety Considerations
Follow these important safety guidelines when positioning and connecting the set-top:
• Position the set-top with at least two inches of space above and on all sides.
• Do not block the slots and openings on the set-top.
• Do not place anything on top of the set-top.
• Do not position the set-top in an enclosed space that would restrict airflow around the unit.
• Do not position the set-top near any external heat source that could raise the temperature around the unit. Do not place the set-top on top of another heat-producing electronic device.
• Allow for adequate ventilation around the set-top to maintain normal operating temperature. Do not place the set-top in a sealed enclosure without providing for adequate airflow.

Someone asked to see my Verizon FiOS bill, so here it is for all to see:

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/fios/fiostvbill.gif http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/fios/fiosnetbill.gif

I now use TivoHDs (1TB for 160+ HD hours) exclusively with Verizon, having given up my Verizon DVRs.

I'm on the "Double Flex" (or was it "Flex Duo" ?) plan with 20/5 Internet and FiOS HD Extreme for $79.99/mo. With two CableCards, I pay a total of $89.82/mo after tax.

To upgrade from FiOS TV Premier to HD Extreme, I logged in at Verizon.com (https://www22.verizon.com/myverizon/) and selected My Services -> My TV -> Add/Change Channels & Plan. There's a link for "ExtremeHD + 20/5 for $79.99." Click that and you get the option to upgrade online via representative chat. Took about five minutes.

Someone asked to see my Verizon FiOS bill, so here it is for all to see:

<image deleted>

I now use TivoHDs (1TB for 160+ HD hours) exclusively with Verizon, having given up my Verizon DVRs.

I'm on the "Double Flex" (or was it "Flex Duo" ?) plan with 20/5 Internet and FiOS HD Extreme for $79.99/mo. With two CableCards, I pay a total of $89.82/mo after tax.

To upgrade from FiOS TV Premier to HD Extreme, I logged in at Verizon.com (https://www22.verizon.com/myverizon/) and selected My Services -> My TV -> Add/Change Channels & Plan. There's a link for "ExtremeHD + 20/5 for $79.99." Click that and you get the option to upgrade online via representative chat. Took about five minutes.

How much did the Tivo boxes cost you in addition to the Verizon charges? I assume there is also a Tivo monthly charge.

TiVo Costs:

http://www.tivo.com/assets/popups/popup_tivo-service.html

* Note you can buy TiVo HD DVRs at a reduced cost from Online and regular Retailers usually for less. Service costs the same except when there's special deals direct from TiVo itself.

How much did the Tivo boxes cost you in addition to the Verizon charges? I assume there is also a Tivo monthly charge.I pay $6.95/mo per TiVo.

I got on their retention plan some years back when I had a SD box and was tired of waiting for their HD box. TiVo allows you to login to your account at Tivo.com to swap old boxes for new ones, while retaining your existing subscription, so that's what I did.

If you were to subscribe to TiVo today, it would cost you $12.99/mo, $129/yr, or $399/lifetime for the first TivoHD, and $9.99/mo, $99/yr, or $299/lifetime for every box after that. That's on top of the $208 purchase price (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=412996), plus $110 (http://www.buy.com/prod/western-digital-av-gp-wd10evcs-hard-drive-1tb-serial-ata-300-serial/q/loc/101/206827123.html) for a 1TB DVR drive upgrade.

I pay $6.95/mo per TiVo.

I got on their retention plan some years back when I had a SD box and was tired of waiting for their HD box. TiVo allows you to login to your account at Tivo.com to swap old boxes for new ones, while retaining your existing subscription, so that's what I did.

If you were to subscribe to TiVo today, it would cost you $12.99/mo, $129/yr, or $399/lifetime for the first TivoHD, and $9.99/mo, $99/yr, or $299/lifetime for every box after that. That's on top of the $208 purchase price (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=412996), plus $110 (http://www.buy.com/prod/western-digital-av-gp-wd10evcs-hard-drive-1tb-serial-ata-300-serial/q/loc/101/206827123.html) for a 1TB DVR drive upgrade.

And its well worth the price. Anyone who tries to compare $$ for $$ is comparing apples to oranges.

And its well worth the price. Anyone who tries to compare $$ for $$ is comparing apples to oranges.


Yes it's well worth it. I have four TiVos on FIOS and pay for 8 cable cards. Even if FIOS offered me free service and free
DVR boxes I wouldn't take them up on that offer. I would rather keep my TiVos and pay my fees. The FIOS boxes don't even come close.

Hey guys I have a couple of questions....

Do you guys think that fios will ever be able to transmit as many HD channels as Directv or do you think the Fios technology will hit a bottleneck soon?

I mean Fiber seems great but I just wonder if Verizon will run out of space sooner rather than later.

People throw around terms like QAM but I'm not sure what they're talking about.

I only ask because I'm thinking about switching to Fios or Directv from Cablevision.

Also how would you guys rate the Fios DVR compared to Directv? Any opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry I just could not read this entire thread.

I was under the impression that FIOS offers more HD per area than D*. I thought D*'s HD channel claim was a bit stretched based on regional HD offerings.

Hey guys I have a couple of questions....

Do you guys think that fios will ever be able to transmit as many HD channels as Directv or do you think the Fios technology will hit a bottleneck soon?

I mean Fiber seems great but I just wonder if Verizon will run out of space sooner rather than later.

People throw around terms like QAM but I'm not sure what they're talking about.

I only ask because I'm thinking about switching to Fios or Directv from Cablevision.

Also how would you guys rate the Fios DVR compared to Directv? Any opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry I just could not read this entire thread.

DirecTV's limitation on bandwidth is the number of satellites they can put up. The last couple that they put up allowed them to go MPEG4 and added a number of new HD channels to be added. So in this case, more satellites and the associated satellite dish equals more channels.

In the case of FIOS, the fiber optic cable is the carrier. The technological limitations on FIOS can be looked at in these ways:

1. The total bandwidth fiber can handle.
2. The number of wavelength bands FIOS decides to use.
3. The bandwidth limit for the video protocol used.

Sounds complicated, but basically, a fiber cable can handle a large amount of optical data. The data it handles can be expanded greatly by a technique called Wavelenght Division Multiplexing; using this you can send multiple streams of data over a fiber cable by using different light wavelengths. FIOS chooses to use three: 1310 nm for upstream data, 1490 for downstream data and 1550 nm for RF video data.

So FIOS has sliced up the pipe into three wavelengths, one of which is dedicated strictly to live video (1550) and one that contributes video on demand (part of 1490).

FIOS decided to use the existing QAM broadcast configuration for its live video, which somewhat limits its current ability to expand the number of channels, but it is not limited by the overall bandwidth. Even with this limitation, I believe people have computed the overall limit if we change nothing on the FIOS system, that we can go up to ~160 HD channels (please correct if wrong). This is not, however a technical limit on FIOS, just on the current configuration.

The IPTV protocol based FIOS Video on demand is another way to deliver video. It works well, and can be used to also deliver live broadcast video (it's how ATT UVERSE works). FIOS ultimately will probably go completely this route, bypassing the limitation imposed by the current QAM system. So in the long run, taking advantage of a technology that it already uses, FIOS could expand the number of channels it carries greatly.

So, in the final analysis, increasing the number of wavelength bands can obviously expand the amount of data / number of channels that FIOS can carry: instead of 3, why not 6 or more (in the future). The actual protocol used to carry data (BPON -> GPON quadruples the data throughput) can greatly increase the amount of data carried by each wavelength band, and changing over from one video protocol (QAM to IPTV) has the potential to greatly expand the amount of bandwidth available.

Once Verizon puts down fiber, it has a wealth of bandwidth available and possible techniques to exploit that. Satellite has one set protocol which is dependent on a very expensive set of resources (satellites), so I'd take FIOS's chances to take what is still a very young technology and mature it.

I'd pick FIOS (already did, over DirecTV). Hope I haven't bored you too much.

Hey guys I have a couple of questions....

Do you guys think that fios will ever be able to transmit as many HD channels as Directv or do you think the Fios technology will hit a bottleneck soon?As suggested above, DirecTV likes to includes all its PPV channels and sports packages in its channel counts. If you actually look at the channel lineup comparison (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058081), you'll see the the non-premium lineups are substantially the same.

Excluding PPV and sports packages, Verizon now offers 27 more HD channels than DirecTV. That number should increase to 30 in January.

Verizon FiOS has every non-premium HD cable channel on DirecTV, except:

Cartoon Network
CMT
Crime & Investigation (announced as coming soon on FiOS)
Fuel TV
Golf Channel (announced as coming soon on FiOS)
MTV
NBA TV (coming to FiOS in January)
Nickelodean
Spike
VH1

Verizon has a few non-premium HD channels that DirecTV doesn't:

Game HD
Hallmark Movie Channel
Home Shopping Network (not available in all areas yet)
Lifetime Television
Lifetime Movie Network
Mav HD
Outdoor Channel
QVC
Travel Channel
Wealth TV
WGN America
World Fishing Network

Other HD channels announced as coming soon to Verizon FiOS:

Cars.TV
Comedy.TV
ES.TV
MyDestination.TV
Pets.TV
Recipe.TV

Verizon also has numerous premium HD channels not available on DirecTV:

Encore (not available in all areas yet)
HBO 2
HBO 2 West
HBO Comedy
HBO Comedy West
HBO Family
HBO Family West
HBO Latino
HBO Latino West
HBO Signature
HBO Signature West
HBO Zone
HBO Zone West
@Max
5StarMax
ActionMax
ActionMax West
MoreMax
MoreMax West
OuterMax
ThrillerMax
ThrillerMax West
WMax
Showtime 2 West
Sho Extreme West
The Movie Channel West
TMC Xtra
TMC Xtra West

DirecTV only has one premium HD channel that Verizon lacks (Starz West).

Verizon is currently up to 100-110 HD channels, depending on the locals and RSNs in the area.

Channel capacity on Verizon's current 860MHz QAM system is usually touted as 150 MPEG-2 HD channels. Verizon recently began deployment of STBs and DVRs with MPEG-4 AVC support, so they could use that codec to deliver future HD channels outside of the current tier in 2010 or 2011. That could increase HD channel capacity to 200 or beyond. I would not expect any existing channels in the HD Extreme package to switch to MPEG-4 in the forseeable future.

bfdtv, some here have off hand suggested that the 150 channel limit to the QAM infrastructure excluded local channels. Any idea if that's true? It might be significant if Verizon has blocked a full eight QAM for locals instead of just four because some subs get locals from two separate markets.

bfdtv, some here have off hand suggested that the 150 channel limit to the QAM infrastructure excluded local channels. Any idea if that's true? It might be significant if Verizon has blocked a full eight QAM for locals instead of just four because some subs get locals from two separate markets.
Verizon has to block more than 8 QAM channels for locals already. There are 10 QAM channels used in the Washington Metro markets for locals and PEGs and this is not a dual market line-up. There are 2 QAM channels for the SD locals, 2 for the PEGs (which were moved to QAM 127 & 128 around a month ago), 6 for digital broadcast locals for 11 broadcast stations. As low power and other local stations go digital, Verizon may have to add 1/2 of a QAM channel for those if those stations go HD or add multiple SD sub-channels to take advantage of their 19.4 Mbps ATSC broadcast bandwidth. Any analysis of the total number of HD and SD national channels that Verizon can carry in the QAM space has to allow for a block of maybe 12 to 18? QAM channels set aside for the locals.

I was referring only to the 150 HD channel limit. Four to eight QAM would be reserved for HD locals (between 8 and 16 channels), depending on whether it's a single or double market. It's never been made clear to me where the 150 HD channel limit comes from and whether it includes locals or not.

My concern, naturally, is that we've already hit 95 national HD channels. Throw in another 16 slots reserved for HD locals, and we're at about 75% capacity already, and as has been pointed out, IPTV and MPEG4 solutions to increase QAM space for HD are still quite a ways off.

In other words, if Verizon adds every currently available channel and every channel projected for 2009, it will hit capacity by the end of this year. And while it's very expensive for D* to throw up another satellite, it can in theory throw up an infinite number of birds. What solutions does Verizon have available once the QAM infrastructure is exhausted short of IPTV and MPEG4, neither of which is coming in the near future?

I was referring only to the 150 HD channel limit. Four to eight QAM would be reserved for HD locals (between 8 and 16 channels), depending on whether it's a single or double market. It's never been made clear to me where the 150 HD channel limit comes from and whether it includes locals or not.

My concern, naturally, is that we've already hit 95 national HD channels. Throw in another 16 slots reserved for HD locals, and we're at about 75% capacity already, and as has been pointed out, IPTV and MPEG4 solutions to increase QAM space for HD are still quite a ways off.

In other words, if Verizon adds every currently available channel and every channel projected for 2009, it will hit capacity by the end of this year. And while it's very expensive for D* to throw up another satellite, it can in theory throw up an infinite number of birds. What solutions does Verizon have available once the QAM infrastructure is exhausted short of IPTV and MPEG4, neither of which is coming in the near future?

There are options. One such is statistical multiplexing. While I'm sure Verizon wants to keep the selling point that the signal is straight from the provider, they could manage to crank back the datarate using STM and not have things look horrible like the satellite providers used to before mpeg4. There's a lot of bandwidth between what Verizon provides now and terrible video quality.

A little disappointed Verizon Fios chose not to add MLB TV in HD when they have it in SD. Better get it before Spring Training begins.

I'd pick FIOS (already did, over DirecTV). Hope I haven't bored you too much.

Not at all. Thanks that was helpful.



Excluding PPV and sports packages, Verizon now offers 27 more HD channels than DirecTV. That number should increase to 30 in January.

Thanks for the info. I thnk I'm leaning toward fios. One more thing. How is the Verizon DVR?

There are options. One such is statistical multiplexing. While I'm sure Verizon wants to keep the selling point that the signal is straight from the provider, they could manage to crank back the datarate using STM and not have things look horrible like the satellite providers used to before mpeg4. There's a lot of bandwidth between what Verizon provides now and terrible video quality.
If FiOS goes the route of Comcast, TWC, Cox, and every other cable provider, they lose the advantage of having the most channels in the best quality, and probably lose a bunch of customers who switched for that specific reason. I don't know why IPTV can't be implemented; they're already doing it with VOD, so it shouldn't be too difficult to start switching low-interest HD channels over. The only downside is that CableCard users get screwed, but that's a feeling they should all used to by now :eek::rolleyes::D.

A little disappointed Verizon Fios chose not to add MLB TV in HD when they have it in SD. Better get it before Spring Training begins.
I don't think anyone has that channel in HD yet,(not here in the Seattle area anyway) but will by spring training...Channel 86 sd here looks ok for now

I don't think anyone has that channel in HD yet,(not here in the Seattle area anyway) but will by spring training...Channel 86 sd here looks ok for now

I believe I read where Cablevision has added the HD version already.

I don't think anyone has that channel in HD yet,(not here in the Seattle area anyway) but will by spring training...Channel 86 sd here looks ok for now

It wasn't contractually necessary for VZ to have MLB HD up on Day 1. No worries - it'll be added before the season starts.

I did watch the channel last night - thought the SD pic quality was actually amazing.

It wasn't contractually necessary for VZ to have MLB HD up on Day 1. No worries - it'll be added before the season starts.

I did watch the channel last night - thought the SD pic quality was actually amazing.MLB Network HD looks great on DirecTV. The new net is running older 4:3 material with brick pillars/wings. MLB Network has choosen to do 720p...

In other words, if Verizon adds every currently available channel and every channel projected for 2009, it will hit capacity by the end of this year. And while it's very expensive for D* to throw up another satellite, it can in theory throw up an infinite number of birds.Or convert their hundreds and hundreds of MPEG2 SD channels to MPEG4 and/or have new receivers center cut HD channels and downconvert them to SD. All of this is not going to happen over night though...

All of this is not going to happen over night though...

Especially since MPEG4 equipment still isn't the standard for an install. I was just installed at the end of October and I got a new in box 6xxx unit (and a 2500 SD box), neither of which supports MPEG4. I've heard of many people getting their 7xxx boxes swapped out for 6xxx ones as well since they seem to have fewer issues.

I think probably the easiest thing for do in the short term is to move some blocks of channels to IPTV. They could do that for the music channels and maybe the foreign language channels. That would impact the fewest people who are using a cable card to access them.

Another thing that I think i would be ok with in the short term (though technically a channel reduction) is the elimination of the West coast premium feeds (for people in the East) and vice versa for the West. Yeah, it's nice to have everything on a 3 hour delay (or, I suppose, 3 hours in advance on the West Coast), but that's a good chunk of redundant programming that really only benefits people without a DVR.

since it takes verizon FOREVER to do anything, d* will leapfrog them again soon.

if they plan on switching to mpeg4, they're certainly not doing a heckuva lot to advance it, seeing how they're still passing out 6xxx boxes. it'll take them 12-18 months to transition to mpeg4 (look how long it took them to just roll out a firmware update, which already needs fixing). how much time will mpeg4 buy them anyway? 18-24 months?

they're in much better shape than the cables. they have a good delivvery system but their management and execution don't seem as good as d*

MPEG4 would double capacity, so they'd be able to hold 300 HD channels.

Someone else posted recently that Verizon is planning for MPEG4. When their current supply of MPEG2 boxes is depleted, they will only deploy MPEG4 STBs. So this is purely a guess, but you figure the supply will deplete sometime in the next six months. An MPEG4 transition for Extreme HD customers might be possible by 2011 and certainly by 2012. By then their initial deployments will be six plus years old and the cost of the 72xx box will be pretty low. Also the economic advantages to a single STB deployment should be able to justify a sooner-than-planned transition if necessary.

how much capacity do they have left, do yo know?

how much capacity do they have left, do yo know?
Time to do a detailed QAM channel use summary to figure out how many unused QAM channels are left in different VHOs. Depending on how many QAM channels have to be reserved for locals and how many QAM channels have to be aside for future sports packages (Extra Innings, HD RSNs, etc), Verizon has room for a modest number of additional national HD channels within the QAM capacity. But I wish they were not bothering with the 6, count 'em, 6 HD Entertainment Studios channels. Save the bandwidth for existing & future HD channels people want to watch, but I am not in charge at Verizon.

I have been putting off assembling a complete summary of where all the HD channels are and # of sub-channels in use for each QAM channel, but this weekend is a good time to do this. End of 2008 status report sort of thing.

But I wish they were not bothering with the 6, count 'em, 6 HD Entertainment Studios channels. Save the bandwidth for existing & future HD channels people want to watch, but I am not in charge at Verizon.I too think Verizon may regret that decision, although admittedly, I haven't seen these channels yet.

As long as they have MLB network in HD by opening day I'll be satisfied. I'm still miffed at how they have handled the NBA tv/League Pass situation.

If FiOS goes the route of Comcast, TWC, Cox, and every other cable provider, they lose the advantage of having the most channels in the best quality, and probably lose a bunch of customers who switched for that specific reason. I don't know why IPTV can't be implemented; they're already doing it with VOD, so it shouldn't be too difficult to start switching low-interest HD channels over. The only downside is that CableCard users get screwed, but that's a feeling they should all used to by now :eek::rolleyes::D.

I'm rather dubious about IPTV. Over fiber the datarate should be ok to sustain it, it's the multiple HD channel stream stuff that has me concerned.

I know UVerse comes over copper so it's probably not a valid comparison but they have lots of issues.

The couple of VOD things I've checked out with FIOS didn't look all that hot to me.

I'd be surprised if the music channels take a full QAM, but they do take part.Moving them to IPTV would be smart and give 2 more HD's.

I'm rather dubious about IPTV. Over fiber the datarate should be ok to sustain it, it's the multiple HD channel stream stuff that has me concerned.

I know UVerse comes over copper so it's probably not a valid comparison but they have lots of issues.

The couple of VOD things I've checked out with FIOS didn't look all that hot to me.
They could just as easily do SD channels instead of HD. The out-of-market sports packages are idle most of the time, and aren't really going to have too many viewers on any particular game at any particular time. That's a couple of QAMs right there. Same with the PPV channels, and foreign-language (other than Spanish). Pretty much everything 1000+ could be moved without much impact.

Others have mentioned the alternate feeds of premium channels as being good candidates for being removed, but they could instead be switched to IP-based without upsetting too many viewers.

I too think Verizon may regret that decision, although admittedly, I haven't seen these channels yet.

Speaking of which, the IMG data for all the coming soon channels (the six .TV channels, NBA TV, and C&I) is now blank and gray. On the plus side, MLB Network SD now has (some) guide data.

I was looking at the Home Media DVR setup but when i was talking with a salesperson they said that you couldn't stream the recorded video to an HD-STB only an SD one. Is this true? If so anyone heard when they will offer the streaming to HD-STB's?

Thanks

I was looking at the Home Media DVR setup but when i was talking with a salesperson they said that you couldn't stream the recorded video to an HD-STB only an SD one. Is this true? If so anyone heard when they will offer the streaming to HD-STB's?

Thanks
I believe that is true. I know that HD material can not be streamed to any type of box from the Home Media DVR.

I believe that is true. I know that HD material can not be streamed to any type of box from the Home Media DVR.

That restriction was lifted after the 1.6 release I believe ( I don't have a 2nd HD STB to test.)

I do know if I try to select an HD recording from my SD box it says that an HD set top box is required.

I was looking at the Home Media DVR setup but when i was talking with a salesperson they said that you couldn't stream the recorded video to an HD-STB only an SD one. Is this true? If so anyone heard when they will offer the streaming to HD-STB's? The information given to you is outdated.

Back in October, Verizon released the IMG 1.6 software which added the ability to stream HD recordings from HD-DVRs to HD-STBs (but not other HD-DVRs).

This IMG 1.6 software also introduced a bug, specific to the QIP6xxx, that causes a significant reduction in SD (but not HD) picture quality. This is supposed to be fixed with an upcoming 1.6.1 update in late January or February.

Note this SD output issue does not affect the new QIP7216 DVR or CableCard TiVos, which now offer significantly better SD picture quality. At this time, the 7216 is not really a viable alternative to the 6416 due to more pressing tuner and sound issues, which Verizon also hopes to fix around the time that IMG 1.6.1 is released.

Note this SD output issue does not affect the new QIP7216 DVR or CableCard TiVos, which now offer significantly better SD picture quality. At this time, the 7216 is not really a viable alternative to the 6416 due to more pressing tuner and sound issues, which Verizon also hopes to fix around the time that IMG 1.6.1 is released.

I am having FIOS TV/Inter/Phone installed early next week - I ordered a HM DVR as well as a regular HD DVR and standard HD box. Idea was to stream to standard HD box and use regular DVR as way to increase storage (knowing it is not streaming capable). Will I get a 7216 for a new install now and if I have a choice of a 6416, which one do I want now considering both seem to have issues?

I am having FIOS TV/Inter/Phone installed early next week - I ordered a HM DVR as well as a regular HD DVR and standard HD box. Idea was to stream to standard HD box and use regular DVR as way to increase storage (knowing it is not streaming capable). Will I get a 7216 for a new install now and if I have a choice of a 6416, which one do I want now considering both seem to have issues?The 6416 has the SD output quality issue, but that doesn't affect the functionality of the box.

The issues on the 7216 do affect its functionality (loss of sound, complete loss of tuners until you pull the power), so I don't think you want that box. You want a 6416, at least until the other issues on the 7216 are resolved. Verizon hopes to have the issues with both boxes resolved by February, but it's a lot easier to live with reduced SD quality than it is the loss of sound and/or tuners.

Verizon hopes to have the issues with both boxes resolved by February, but it's a lot easier to live with reduced SD quality than it is the loss of sound and/or tuners.

Thanks. Are there still SD issues with the 6416 if using component inputs instead of HDMI? Two of my HD sets are a few years old and do not have HDMI connectors, so I am relegated to component connectors for now.

MPEG4 would double capacity, so they'd be able to hold 300 HD channels.

Someone else posted recently that Verizon is planning for MPEG4. When their current supply of MPEG2 boxes is depleted, they will only deploy MPEG4 STBs. So this is purely a guess, but you figure the supply will deplete sometime in the next six months. An MPEG4 transition for Extreme HD customers might be possible by 2011 and certainly by 2012. By then their initial deployments will be six plus years old and the cost of the 72xx box will be pretty low. Also the economic advantages to a single STB deployment should be able to justify a sooner-than-planned transition if necessary.

No, it was stated the new 7216 which will do MPEG2 and MPEG4 will become the box they install - which is different then deploying a MPEG4 only STB.

Furthermore, FiOS allocated 850Mhz on their system (IIRC) to TV at this early point. That gives them the ability to use roughly 140 6Mhz 256 QAMS capable of 38.81 Mbps each.

If that is a problem, they can allocate more bandwidth to TV - its not like they are in short supply.

And fwiw, FiOS is focusing away from IPTV, which was where they thought they were heading in the beginning.

Thanks. Are there still SD issues with the 6416 if using component inputs instead of HDMI?

To my knowledge, no. I have mine hooked up via component and I didn't notice any change in SD quality when 1.6 rolled out. I also have mine to output SD at 480i as well though.

I am having FIOS TV/Inter/Phone installed early next week - I ordered a HM DVR as well as a regular HD DVR and standard HD box. Idea was to stream to standard HD box and use regular DVR as way to increase storage (knowing it is not streaming capable). Will I get a 7216 for a new install now and if I have a choice of a 6416, which one do I want now considering both seem to have issues?

I had Home Media functionality turned on for my 6416 box last Nov. when I switched to the ExtremeHD pkg as a 3 month freebie. PQ of recorded HD streamed to my QIP6200-2 is excellent. Control of the material is another story. I can watch from the 6200 and FF or pause, etc. but very often in the middle of watching I get an error that communication with the Hub has been lost. To continue, you have to exit the DVR and reenter your program choice to play and you are at the beginning of the recording. FF speed from the 6200 is painfully slow to get back to the point the recording was last at.

Although I don't record much SD material on the 6416, I can watch recorded SD on my 2500-3 SD-only box. I cannot judge PQ as I watch it on an old analog set connected to the 2500. Control seems a bit easier from the 2500 remote (same remote is used for all 3 boxes) as it is only directing SD material playback.

Unless Verizon can provide better reliability for HD playback, I will not extend my HM pkg beyond the free period. Besides, for ~$3 more a month I can upgrade my 6200 to another 6416 and add 160GB storage - probably a better plan in any event.

Ridgefamus I just get the same communication error with the hub when I am watching recorded material in another room. It is very disconcerting and usually occurs after an hour into a game or a movie and you have to fast forward from the start. I am calling to try to resolve it this week but, I am not optimistic. Maybe I should go back to tivo but don't have a land line any more.

Maybe I should go back to tivo but don't have a land line any more.

If you hook a TiVo to a high speed network, cabled or wireless, you don't need a landline.

The information given to you is outdated.

Back in October, Verizon released the IMG 1.6 software which added the ability to stream HD recordings from HD-DVRs to HD-STBs (but not other HD-DVRs).

This IMG 1.6 software also introduced a bug, specific to the QIP6xxx, that causes a significant reduction in SD (but not HD) picture quality. This is supposed to be fixed with an upcoming 1.6.1 update in late January or February.

Note this SD output issue does not affect the new QIP7216 DVR or CableCard TiVos, which now offer significantly better SD picture quality. At this time, the 7216 is not really a viable alternative to the 6416 due to more pressing tuner and sound issues, which Verizon also hopes to fix around the time that IMG 1.6.1 is released.

Thanks for the info. I ordered another HD-STB and because the guy thought I couldn't stream video to my HD-STB's he gave me 3 months of the DVR for free. I'll probably wait for that to expire and then order the HM DVR which also has three free months with it so I can get basically 6 months of the DVR for free and by then the 1.6.1 upgrade will have been rolled out.

Are there standards for MPEG4 over QAM? I'm hoping this is something that TiVo will be able to adopt without too much trouble. (They already have MPEG4 decoders built into the Series 3 and HD, but currently they only use them with YouTube and Netflix streamed video.)

Others have mentioned the alternate feeds of premium channels as being good candidates for being removed, but they could instead be switched to IP-based without upsetting too many viewers.

I agree the alt feeds are great candidates. Just as long as they don't move the sports package stuff. Then I'd really be one of the cable card annoyed folks :)

Verizon FiOS has every non-premium cable channel on DirecTV, except:

Cartoon Network
CMT
Crime & Investigation (announced as coming soon on FiOS)
Fuel TV
Golf Channel (announced as coming soon on FiOS)
MTV
NBA TV (coming to FiOS in January)
Nickelodean
Spike
Style
VH1

DirecTV only has one premium HD channel that Verizon lacks (Starz West).



I just had Fios installed and I have all of the above channels except NBA TV. I live in WA state.

He meant in HD, hifisponge. FiOS doesn't have the HD versions of those channels. Although his list is partially wrong. DirecTV doesn't have the HD version of Style, but they do have the HD version of MLB Network.

He meant in HD, hifisponge. FiOS doesn't have the HD versions of those channels. Although his list is partially wrong. DirecTV doesn't have the HD version of Style, but they do have the HD version of MLB Network.

Ahh, got it. :o

No, it was stated the new 7216 which will do MPEG2 and MPEG4 will become the box they install - which is different then deploying a MPEG4 only STB.

Furthermore, FiOS allocated 850Mhz on their system (IIRC) to TV at this early point. That gives them the ability to use roughly 140 6Mhz 256 QAMS capable of 38.81 Mbps each.

If that is a problem, they can allocate more bandwidth to TV - its not like they are in short supply.

And fwiw, FiOS is focusing away from IPTV, which was where they thought they were heading in the beginning.

Really? Where was that stated? So are they staying with the QAM based approach?

No, it was stated the new 7216 which will do MPEG2 and MPEG4 will become the box they install - which is different then deploying a MPEG4 only STB.

Hmm? I never said the 72xx was an MPEG4 only STB.

Verizon FiOS has every non-premium HD cable channel on DirecTV, except:

Cartoon Network
CMT
MTV
Nickelodean
Spike
VH1


All Viacom - tells you what the problem is.

No, it was stated the new 7216 which will do MPEG2 and MPEG4 will become the box they install - which is different then deploying a MPEG4 only STB.

Furthermore, FiOS allocated 850Mhz on their system (IIRC) to TV at this early point. That gives them the ability to use roughly 140 6Mhz 256 QAMS capable of 38.81 Mbps each.

If that is a problem, they can allocate more bandwidth to TV - its not like they are in short supply.
Why would anyone deploy a MPEG-4 only STB/DVR at this point??? Even when/if MPEG-4 becomes the norm for cable, the STBs will undoubtedly keep MPEG-2 for backward compatibility. The locals will likely stay MPEG-2 for a long time anyway.

Verizon does NOT have roughly 140 QAM channels, they can use 134 QAM channels from 2-135 with the QIP-2500 and QIP-6416 boxes. All spelled out in the specs for the two boxes at http://www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business+Product+and+Services/TV+Video+Distribution/Customer+Premises+Equipment+%28Set-tops%29/Hybrid+QAM-IP+Set-tops. Verizon does not have that many unused QAM channels left, depending on many have to be reserved for local channels.

Why would anyone deploy a MPEG-4 only STB/DVR at this point??? Even when/if MPEG-4 becomes the norm for cable, the STBs will undoubtedly keep MPEG-2 for backward compatibility. The locals will likely stay MPEG-2 for a long time anyway.

Verizon does NOT have roughly 140 QAM channels, they can use 134 QAM channels from 2-135 with the QIP-2500 and QIP-6416 boxes. All spelled out in the specs for the two boxes at http://www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business+Product+and+Services/TV+Video+Distribution/Customer+Premises+Equipment+%28Set-tops%29/Hybrid+QAM-IP+Set-tops. Verizon does not have that many unused QAM channels left, depending on many have to be reserved for local channels.


As noted previously, the 7216 will become the FiOS catch all STB. The QIP-2500 does not need to receive any additional QAMs as it will just need to access the SD QAMs. This is the last year for QIP-2500 installs anyway you look at it as their exemption runs out the end of December this year.

(re HD Entertainment Studios channels)

I too think Verizon may regret that decision, although admittedly, I haven't seen these channels yet.

2 words: Byron Allen. not a name I associate with quality and/or entertainment.

In regards to the .TV stations - apparently they are sent almost like an IPTV station to VZ.

Haven't heard much more on them, other than they're not even in the immediate plans, at least at my VHO. Seems the IMG folks jumped the gun with putting these in the guide.

1. Verizon use to use analog channels just as CATV providers still do as thier basic tier,
2. They have now dropped these in favor of going all digital (or is this upgrade only in larger and/or newer markets?),
3. Only the OTA local network stations are 'in the clear' (which means, your TV's tuner is basically useless just as it is with satellite programming),

Is the above correct and are they using SDV?

1. Verizon use to use analog channels just as CATV providers still do as thier basic tier,
2. They have now dropped these in favor of going all digital (or is this upgrade only in larger and/or newer markets?),
3. Only the OTA local network stations are 'in the clear' (which means, your TV's tuner is basically useless just as it is with satellite programming),

Is the above correct and are they using SDV?

1) No analog channels anywhere
2) All markets
3) Most TV's support QAM tuning, which means you can easily tune in the HD locals without a cable box. Much better than Satellite.

Also, FIOS is cable, so they support cable cards, which means you can use things like a Tivo HD, which is also much better than Satellite.

When did they start to drop the anlog channels?
Are only the 'locals' "in the clear"?

Cable MSO's have to support CC's, but we all know what it is like to actually try to get one. ;)

When did they start to drop the anlog channels?
Are only the 'locals' "in the clear"?

Cable MSO's have to support CC's, but we all know what it is like to actually try to get one. ;)Newer markets had no analog channels. Verizon dropped all analog channels from all remaining markets a few months ago.

The SD locals, HD locals, public interest channels, and music channels are available "in the clear."

Verizon does not use SDV and has no plans for SDV.

Verizon offers CableCards, and is confirmed to offer the newer M-CARDs in:

Delaware
Portland, OR
Dallas / Plano, TX
Seattle, WA
Long Island, NY
Washington Metro (N. VA / Maryland)

One M-CARD supports both tuners in DVRs like the TivoHD. Verizon is slowly rolling out M-CARDs in other areas, replacing their S-CARDs.

The reason for the SDV question was what I read in the descrption of their plain jane STB (DCT700);Reclaims bandwidth allocated to analog channels,
Combats analog piracyOther than the obvious paranoia of Verizon, I interpertated that to possible mean SDV. At least there is some good news.

Thanks for clearing this up. Now if they would only stop 'cherry picking' the supposed rich suburbs and start wiring the cities that have far denser population with people who's limited entertainment dollars goes to watching TV. :mad:

does anyone have the link to the upcoming rollouts for fios by area and neighborhood? we may be moving soon, and i don't think fios is in the area yet. i'd like to look at the list to see if Vz is planning for it soon. this is for hampton roads/SEVA. thanks.

does anyone have the link to the upcoming rollouts for fios by area and neighborhood? we may be moving soon, and i don't think fios is in the area yet. i'd like to look at the list to see if Vz is planning for it soon. this is for hampton roads/SEVA. thanks.

Check here...
http://www22.verizon.com/about/community/va/

Also, there is a Hampton Roads FiOS Thread (here)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=869878

Anyone know why HBO-HD East and Cinemax HD East (899 and 920) were killed off for 6+ hours on Monday Morning at 12:41am Eastern?

Is anyone using a DVR other than what Verizon supplies? Either the Goldstar (LG), Sony or the TiVO with a CC?

Is anyone using a DVR other than what Verizon supplies? Either the Goldstar (LG), Sony or the TiVO with a CC?


I'm using three Series 3 TiVos and one TiVoHD with FIOS. I'm using eight cable cards with them. I've been using them on FIOS since Fall 2007.
I have no problems. But like all providers with cable cards, the key is to get a tech that knows what they are doing. Fortunately the techs in my area have been very knowledgeable.

Is anyone using a DVR other than what Verizon supplies? Either the Goldstar (LG), Sony or the TiVO with a CC?I'm using a TivoHD and TivoHD XL with FiOS.

Eight CC's? Bet they love you.
Those are all dual QAM tuners? I thought they had one of each; 8VSB & QAM.

Eight CC's? Bet they love you.
Those are all dual QAM tuners? I thought they had one of each; 8VSB & QAM.The TivoHD has dual tuners, but each tuner can do either 8VSB or QAM. You can record two channels from FiOS (QAM), two from OTA (8VSB), or one of each at the same time.

Only one M-CARD is required to support both tuners on the TivoHD, but M-CARDs only recently became available from FiOS, and they still aren't available in every market yet. Previously, two of the S-CARDs were required.

Anyone know why HBO-HD East and Cinemax HD East (899 and 920) were killed off for 6+ hours on Monday Morning at 12:41am Eastern?Sounds like there was probably some sort of maintenance at your regional hub (VHO).

Verizon offers CableCards, and is confirmed to offer the newer M-CARDs in:

Delaware
Portland, OR
Dallas / Plano, TX
Seattle, WA
Long Island, NY
Washington Metro (N. VA / Maryland)

One M-CARD supports both tuners in DVRs like the TivoHD. Verizon is slowly rolling out M-CARDs in other areas, replacing their S-CARDs.

Going forward, Verizon will not support tru2way devices, which will also use CableCARD's.

They do plan on using VueKey to support IPTV, which is also compatable with CableCARD.

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=166756&site=cdn

The TivoHD has dual tuners, but each tuner can do either 8VSB or QAM. You can record two channels from FiOS (QAM), two from OTA (8VSB), or one of each at the same time.

Only one M-CARD is required to support both tuners on the TivoHD, but M-CARDs only recently became available from FiOS, and they still aren't available in every market yet. Previously, two of the S-CARDs were required.

Sounds like there was probably some sort of maintenance at your regional hub (VHO).

Nope - it was the MPEG2 HD feeds off 127W that were out. The SHE has the receiving equipment for the birds, so this was not in a VHO.

Is anyone using a DVR other than what Verizon supplies? Either the Goldstar (LG), Sony or the TiVO with a CC?

I have 2 Series 3 Tivo's and 3 Tivo HD's, with 2 CC's each (10 CC's total). I've had no problems at all once set up.

I only had one install problem, where the tech was clueless and just drove away, but left the cards so I called in and activated them myself. All the other techs have been great, activating them within about 30 minutes max.

does anyone know if or when NBA TV is going to come on live on FIOS?

does anyone know if or when NBA TV is going to come on live on FIOS?

Yes it is coming, however I don't know when. I believe the next round of additions starts the 3rd week of January, but I don't know if that is market by market or all at once.

Is anyone using a DVR other than what Verizon supplies? Either the Goldstar (LG), Sony or the TiVO with a CC?I have the FiOS DVR, but I also have a Sony HDD500 DVR and a Mits and Sony HDTV with CC as well. With the exception of the CC needing to be reset (it would lose its authorization) every now and again the first two months (billing and account issues, not technical issues), I haven't had any problems with them since. The FiOS DVR has its flaws (small hard-drive and no external storage support being the two biggest), but it is very quick and responsive. We tried the Tivo HD box for a few weeks and, although it has plenty of features, it was perhaps the slowest of the 12 HD DVRs we've owned/used over the years.

In any case, your HDD250 will work just fine with FiOS TV. The only problem with the Sony, as you know, is the single tuner has always limited its practical use...and TVGOS hasn't always been the most reliable guide product. The Tivo HD is an option if you're mostly into watching recorded material (my opinion). Also, Diego just released their Moxi HD DVR which is also an option...although it has less features than Tivo, is pricey, doesn't have an ATSC tuner, and there unknown reliability and service issues...but it is much faster than the Tivo and has a better guide and GUI (again, my opinion). Hopefully EchoStar will release a digital cable ready DTVPal DVR+ model soon and we'll have another viable choice since the FiOS DVR, Tivo HD, and Sony HDD250/500 (single tuner) all have their faults.

does anyone know if or when NBA TV is going to come on live on FIOS?

I remember seeing a date of by the end of January.

I have the FiOS DVR, but I also have a Sony HDD500 DVR and a Mits and Sony HDTV with CC as well. With the exception of the CC needing to be reset (it would lose its authorization) every now and again the first two months (billing and account issues, not technical issues), I haven't had any problems with them since. The FiOS DVR has its flaws (small hard-drive and no external storage support being the two biggest), but it is very quick and responsive. We tried the Tivo HD box for a few weeks and, although it has plenty of features, it was perhaps the slowest of the 12 HD DVRs we've owned/used over the years.

In any case, your HDD250 will work just fine with FiOS TV. The only problem with the Sony, as you know, is the single tuner has always limited its practical use...and TVGOS hasn't always been the most reliable guide product. The Tivo HD is an option if you're mostly into watching recorded material (my opinion). Also, Diego just released their Moxi HD DVR which is also an option...although it has less features than Tivo, is pricey, doesn't have an ATSC tuner, and there unknown reliability and service issues...but it is much faster than the Tivo and has a better guide and GUI (again, my opinion). Hopefully EchoStar will release a digital cable ready DTVPal DVR+ model soon and we'll have another viable choice since the FiOS DVR, Tivo HD, and Sony HDD250/500 (single tuner) all have their faults.

Not to drag this into a Tivo discussion, but the Tivo HD is much faster than the Verizon DVR's. Not sure what speed issues you saw (or if you were just using a very old software version, or if you didn't register it and give it a couple days to download everything), but for doing anything you want to do with a DVR, it's super fast, and much faster than a Verizon (or Comcast) DVR.

(The only slowness is when rearranging alot of season passes, or adding new season passes if you have 50+ already, which is more than any other DVR can handle anyway.)

Not to drag this into a Tivo discussion, but the Tivo HD is much faster than the Verizon DVR's. The TiVo is much faster if you use it like we do, which is to record programs, watch recorded programs, and skip commercials. It isn't faster if you spend much of your time time scrolling in the guide and/or channel surfing.

Not sure what speed issues you saw (or if you were just using a very old software version, or if you didn't register it and give it a couple days to download everything), but for doing anything you want to do with a DVR, it's super fast, and much faster than a Verizon (or Comcast) DVR.

(The only slowness is when rearranging alot of season passes, or adding new season passes if you have 50+ already, which is more than any other DVR can handle anyway.)You know all this...but the TiVo is pretty slow out of the box, because (a) all ship with the original 8.1.7 software from Jan'07, and (b) guide databases must be indexed in the background for the first ~48 hours after guided setup. The background indexing noticeably slows responsiveness during that period. Most users receive an update to the latest software (now v11.0) after about a week, and guide data must be re-indexed for another ~48 afters after that update, temporarily slowing responsiveness again. If someone were to buy a TiVo today and only use it for 7-9 days, they could easily come away with a very poor impression of TiVo performance.

It sounds to me like (1) he was watching analog channels and never got a CableCard with the TiVo; and/or (2) he tried the TiVoHD before the 9.4 and 11.0 software releases; and/or (3) he didn't have the box for more than 7-9 days.

Analog channel changes on the TivoHD are very slow, but no one uses analog channels with FiOS (as they've been eliminated). Digital channel changes on the TivoHD take about a half-second longer than the FiOS DVR. That extra half-second could be annoying if you do a lot of channel surfing, but for casual channel changing I don't notice. Most of the channel changes I make involve tuner swaps, to switch from one sporting event to another, and TiVo does that about as fast as the Motorola DVR.

Menu and guide responsiveness was improved in the 9.4 software and more significantly in the 11.0 software. With the current 11.0 software, menus are as fast or faster than the FiOS DVR. With trickplay functions like instant replay, fast forward, and skipping commercials, the FiOS DVR isn't even in the same ballpark with TiVo. The TiVo is much faster than both the FiOS DVR and the Dish Network DVRs in that area.

Guide responsiveness, especially scrolling, still isn't comparable to the FiOS DVR or the latest Dish Network DVRs. Guide scrolling in 11.0, while noticeably improved from older releases, is still rather sluggish, especially if you choose the grid-guide as default. Some STB users like to do a lot of scrolling in the guide, and if you spent much of your time in front of the TV doing that with TiVo's grid guide, I don't think you'd be a happy camper.

Not to drag this into a Tivo discussion, but the Tivo HD is much faster than the Verizon DVR's. Not sure what speed issues you saw (or if you were just using a very old software version, or if you didn't register it and give it a couple days to download everything), but for doing anything you want to do with a DVR, it's super fast, and much faster than a Verizon (or Comcast) DVR.

(The only slowness is when rearranging alot of season passes, or adding new season passes if you have 50+ already, which is more than any other DVR can handle anyway.)That is very interesting...to be honest, I downloaded the latest firmware and used the TiVo HD for 2-weeks before calling Tivo to complain. After troubleshooting the problem, Tivo sent us a replacement remote which I knew wouldn't solve the problem since it seemed like a buffer issue to me. For example, it wasn't very responsible to navigating the guide or entering consecutive skip forwards (even after reboot), and when conducting a search I would literally have to wait 2-3 seconds between entering characters or it would "go whacky"...waiting up to five seconds to "catch up" with the input dialog and doing <-- when I hit the --> or other similar nonsense. Anyway, Tivo sent a replacement box, but the new box and remote experienced the same issue even though they were running the lastest software. Tech support was stumped.

I had ordered a factory refurbished box from Tivo (the first box certainly didn't look factory refurbished), but the 2nd box looked brand new. In retrospect, perhaps Tivo box had a bad batch...even so, they didn't do a very good job QC'ing them prior to sending 'em out.

I feel these discussions about 3rd party DVRs are on topic because it is the one sore spot many of us have with the FiOS TV service. Anyway, I went online during lunch and ordered a brand new Tivo HD box. I have a My DVR sitting around and I am tired of deleting recordings before we get an opportunity to watch them. Hopefully we will have a better experience. If not, I will probably place the Tivo in the bedroom since my one free HD DVR expires next month anyway, and keep the other FiOS DVR in our main living area or cast it into my ever-growing electronics graveyard.

Yeah, I will probably be going to a TiVo next year around October when my Home Media HD-DVR offer expires. The loss of VOD isn't a huge deal for me, especially since I'll have netflix and both TiVo and my Xbox can stream from them (basically making it a replacement for VOD.)

The FIOS DVR is leaps and bounds better than Comcast, but it's expensive to get one with all the features and it's just not slick enough for that price. Hopefully Verizon will have MCards in my area by next year so I only have to rent one cable card.

Guide responsiveness, especially scrolling, still isn't comparable to the FiOS DVR or the latest Dish Network DVRs. Guide scrolling in 11.0, while noticeably improved from older releases, is still rather sluggish, especially if you choose the grid-guide as default. Some STB users like to do a lot of scrolling in the guide, and if you spent much of your time in front of the TV doing that with the TiVo's grid guide, I don't think you'd be a happy camper.

And that was me! I never understood why the Tivo was slow in that area or why it hasn't been improved all that much at this late date.

As you say, if you're a channel surfer, the Tivo is not the best bet.

BTW, great post and very objective!

Yeah, I will probably be going to a TiVo next year around October when my Home Media HD-DVR offer expires. The loss of VOD isn't a huge deal for me, especially since I'll have netflix and both TiVo and my Xbox can stream from them (basically making it a replacement for VOD.)

The FIOS DVR is leaps and bounds better than Comcast, but it's expensive to get one with all the features and it's just not slick enough for that price. Hopefully Verizon will have MCards in my area by next year so I only have to rent one cable card.

I'm also thinking about moving to the TiVo. I don't use VOD except for the free stuff. An ocasional missed network show (there's not that many on VOD in HD anyway), and sometimes an Premium HD movie that everyone can watch.

I wish Tivo could provide some type of On Demand/download for Network Shows (free) and Premium Movie channels subscribed to.

I have seven TiVos(3 Series 3, 4 TiVoHD) with four on FIOS. None of my boxes are at all like you describe. They are all very responsive to remote commands, forwarding through the guide etc.

That is very interesting...to be honest, I downloaded the latest firmware and used the TiVo HD for 2-weeks before calling Tivo to complain. After troubleshooting the problem, Tivo sent us a replacement remote which I knew wouldn't solve the problem since it seemed like a buffer issue to me. For example, it wasn't very responsible to navigating the guide or entering consecutive skip forwards (even after reboot), and when conducting a search I would literally have to wait 2-3 seconds between entering characters or it would "go whacky"...waiting up to five seconds to "catch up" with the input dialog and doing <-- when I hit the --> or other similar nonsense. Anyway, Tivo sent a replacement box, but the new box and remote experienced the same issue even though they were running the lastest software. Tech support was stumped.

I had ordered a factory refurbished box from Tivo (the first box certainly didn't look factory refurbished), but the 2nd box looked brand new. In retrospect, perhaps Tivo box had a bad batch...even so, they didn't do a very good job QC'ing them prior to sending 'em out.

I feel these discussions about 3rd party DVRs are on topic because it is the one sore spot many of us have with the FiOS TV service. Anyway, I went online during lunch and ordered a brand new Tivo HD box. I have a My DVR sitting around and I am tired of deleting recordings before we get an opportunity to watch them. Hopefully we will have a better experience. If not, I will probably place the Tivo in the bedroom since my one free HD DVR expires next month anyway, and keep the other FiOS DVR in our main living area or cast it into my ever-growing electronics graveyard.

i downgraded fios i got rid of movie package because i found myself never watching movies or watching a movie from the middle so i dropped the movie package. then i said half of the hd channels we dont watch all the new ones we never watch so i downgraded. now that i downgraded i only get my locals in hd before i upgraded i got espn discovery and hdnet and etc. is there a way to get just the channels i had before i upgraded or is it all the hd channels or nothing. also since i downgraded verizon deactivated my dvr is that part of the new package.

i downgraded fios i got rid of movie package because i found myself never watching movies or watching a movie from the middle so i dropped the movie package. then i said half of the hd channels we dont watch all the new ones we never watch so i downgraded. now that i downgraded i only get my locals in hd before i upgraded i got espn discovery and hdnet and etc. is there a way to get just the channels i had before i upgraded or is it all the hd channels or nothing. also since i downgraded verizon deactivated my dvr is that part of the new package.The old FiOS TV Premiere package is no longer available. Now you have three choices:
Local Service ($12.99/mo) - SD and HD locals only for $12.99/mo


Essentials ($47.99/mo) - 160+ SD channels, plus locals in HD


FiOS HD Extreme ($57.99) - 180-200 SD channels and ~60 HD channels

I'm not sure whether you can get Verizon's DVR service with the $12.99/mo locals. You should be able to, but their system may not be setup to handle that.

Most people just choose option #3, because you can get it in a bundle with 20/5 Internet for just $79.99/mo. Here's a copy of my bill for December (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15431833&postcount=8912).

Yesterday I called Verizon about FIOs and at one point was told that the rentals fees for a HD-DVR receiver is $19.95 per month! :eek: Told the rep that I thought paying $7/mo. for a DN 622 HD receiver is outrighteous enough...but $20 is highway robbery plain and simple! :mad:

Can anyone using FIOs HD-DVR boxes ascertain her claim?...

-THTS

Yesterday I called Verizon about FIOs and at one point was told that the rentals fees for a HD-DVR receiver is $19.95 per month! :eek: Told the rep that I thought paying $7/mo. for a DN 622 HD receiver is outrighteous enough...but $20 is highway robbery plain and simple! :mad:The Motorola HD-DVR is $15.99/mo.

The same Motorola HD-DVR with multi-room functionality enabled is $19.99/mo. Multi-room allows you to access SD recordings on SD STBs and HD recordings on HD STBs anywhere in your home.

There's no upfront cost to pay for the box, and if it goes bad, Verizon replaces it at no charge.