I donot mean to bash the brand name but...

I expected good quality but I see a lot of compression artifacts..



FIOS does not recompress the signal. What they get is what you see. So any artifacts you are seeing originate with the broadcast.

Could it be that your local CBS affiliate is bit-starving their HD broadcast?

Have you seen NCIS look better from a local source other than Fios recently? Remember, garbage in, garbage out.


NCIS is notorious for the "soft" picture that they intentionally use in production to make Mark Harmon and David McCallum look better. It looks the same on DirectTV as on FIOS.

I'd prefer to see a nice crisp picture of Ziva, tho' ;)

I think a great number of folks do others an injustice, by overstating the quality provided by FiOS. It's good, but the way some folks talk it up, too many prospective customers get the idea that the difference is very significant, when sometimes it is not. Here, in my area, for example, FiOS is just as good as Comcast, in terms of picture quality. So anyone who switches to FiOS, expecting significant improvement, is going to be grievously disappointed, and not because FiOS isn't providing what they're promising (they are) but rather just because of how those prospective customers were led astray by overzealous fans of FiOS.

Disagree! Had both for 6 months, doing many comparisons during that time and FiOS always had the better picture hands down on MOST channels. Since we don't live far from each other, maybe it's just my eyes are a little better than yours. ;)

...I think a great number of folks do others an injustice, by overstating the quality provided by FiOS... The only injustice is if these recent FIOS converts don’t qualify their exaltations. It is helpful to have some further details. What provider are they leaving? Were before and after tests conducted, such as utilizing the test image from HD Net (do they still broadcast that?)?

I came from TW where there were daily audio and video glitches. The local thread is filled with weekly gripes about quality issues. In my local FIOS thread, weeks go by without any posts, and when there are posts, it’s usually questions regarding when their neighborhood will be wired.

Sure there are tons of these “FIOS is better” posts but I never saw a post where the person thought that their previous provider had a better picture.

NCIS is notorious for the "soft" picture that they intentionally use in production to make Mark Harmon and David McCallum look better. It looks the same on DirectTV as on FIOS.

I'd prefer to see a nice crisp picture of Ziva, tho' ;)

Good read the NCIS thread, there's been discussion a lot about the PQ of teh show. Has nothing to do with the provider.

But, if you want to cry, because they do not have the "Ball of String Channel in HD" or some other nonsense, tier-2 HD channel - go ahead. The rest of us will just have to make due with what they currently have.


Is that the original "Ball of String Channel HD" or the new, bonus "Kitten with a Ball of String Channel HD"? I can't do without my kitten, so I guess I'll have to go back to XX. :(

Someone on my local HCTV Thread posted a copy of a flyer they rcvd from Comcast and it listed 40 DH channels, not many, however, quite a few FiOS doesn't have:

BET HD (do we have this?)
Cartoon Network HD
E HD
GMC HD (give me that good ol' time religion!!)
Hallmark Channel HD (Not the Hallmark Movie Channel)
Investigation Discovery HD
Style HD
TCM HD
TRU HD
OneTV HD (not sure what this is)

Interestingly enough so BOS HD nor KittenBOS HD :D

Disagree! Had both for 6 months, doing many comparisons during that time and FiOS always had the better picture hands down on MOST channels. Since we don't live far from each other, maybe it's just my eyes are a little better than yours. ;)No, I think you're just biased against Comcast. ;)

I had 'em both within a few days of each other. I'm sure that there is no difference. Maybe all those ocean breezes have screwed up the coax in your area, but here in North-and-West, Comcast and FiOS are just as good as each other.

Sure there are tons of these “FIOS is better” posts but I never saw a post where the person thought that their previous provider had a better picture.And to be fair, I don't say that either. They're equal. Not one better than the other.

They're equal. Not one better than the other. What provider are you comparing Fios to? You’re lucky that you have two good providers in your area. As I mentioned, TW is definitely inferior to Fios in my market.


edit... I see you mention comcast above, I guess that's the other company...

No, I think you're just biased against Comcast. ;)

I had 'em both within a few days of each other. I'm sure that there is no difference. Maybe all those ocean breezes have screwed up the coax in your area, but here in North-and-West, Comcast and FiOS are just as good as each other.

bicker I have nothing against Comcast. I'm just telling it like it is. I was fortunate enough to have them both for 6 months. When it was time to decide which one to stick with, I chose FiOS based on many reasons including PQ, Why is that so hard for you to understand? Why make it a good guy, bad guy thing? Do you think others are not capable of making rationale decisions based on their own experiences. Do tell me!

I'm just telling it like it is.That's precisely what I'm doing. I'm telling you: FiOS is no better than Comcast, here. Believe me. I wish it was.

Do you think others are not capable of making rationale decisions based on their own experiences. Back at ya! :)

That's precisely what I'm doing. I'm telling you: FiOS is no better than Comcast, here. Believe me. I wish it was.

Back at ya! :)

Your the one that said I was basing my decision on a bias that I don't have!

Nice Try but it didn't work! :rolleyes:

Okay, so maybe I misunderstood you, and if so, I'm sorry: Are you saying that here in Burlington FiOS is better than Comcast? Or are you okay with the idea that over there on the North Shore that might be the case, but here in Burlington, FiOS and Comcast are the same in terms of picture quality?

There is no way that Comcast is providing equal picture quality to FIOS. Comcast compresses their HD channels. FIOS does not. If you cannot see that difference, it does not mean that it does not exist.

I dumped Comcast for FIOS because I was tired of watching compressed HD, full of macroblocking, stuttering and artifacts.

Comcast does not discriminate in sharing their compressed feeds. Everyone gets them, regardless of where you live :)

Okay, so maybe I misunderstood you, and if so, I'm sorry: Are you saying that here in Burlington FiOS is better than Comcast? Or are you okay with the idea that over there on the North Shore that might be the case, but here in Burlington, FiOS and Comcast are the same in terms of picture quality?

What is your display and size?

There is no way that Comcast is providing equal picture quality to FIOS.That's the kind of comment I was addressing -- the rejection of reality experienced by someone else.

Comcast is providing equal picture quality to FiOS here. I know, because I actually live here.

If you cannot see that difference, it does not mean that it does not exist.If it cannot be seen, then it isn't significant. That's not an opinion... it is actually the law.

That's the kind of comment I was addressing -- the rejection of reality experienced by someone else.

I have no doubt that you cannot see a difference. That's not the point. The point is, there is a difference.

Comcast is providing equal picture quality to FiOS here. I know, because I actually live here.

It doesn't matter where you live. The feed is the same. If the feed is the same, then the quality is the same.

If it cannot be seen, then it isn't significant. That's not an opinion... it is actually the law.

Whether or not you (or anyone) can actually see (appreciate) the difference, the fact is, a compressed picture is not as good as an uncompressed picture. That's not an opinion... it is actually the law.

So, if you want to state that you can't see a difference between Comcast and FIOS, that's fine. But, you cannot translate that statement (opinion) into a fact that states "Comcast is providing equal picture quality to FiOS here. I know, because I actually live here."

The latter part is just not true. Sorry.

If it cannot be seen, then it isn't significant. That's not an opinion... it is actually the law.

Just because you can not see a difference does not mean that there is not a difference in picture quality between providers.

If in your experience the picture quality is equal in your eyes that's fine, but many can see a difference which makes it valid point in comparing providers, for many of us here at AVS Forum PQ can be a major factor in deciding between providers.

I have no doubt that you cannot see a difference. That's not the point. The point is, there is a difference.So you are denying the reality because you don't experience it. Sorry, but that's way too self-serving. I'm here. I saw. I know. And the fact that Verizon fans incessantly cheer on their service more than is legitimately warranted is a problem. It causes the problem that was alluded to earlier.

So just stop. Stop trying to claim an absolute. Stop trying to claim that everywhere everything is as it is where you are. I'm not denying that there is a difference in the use of compression. I'm telling you, absolutely and without equivocation, that that does not end up resulting in a difference in picture quality. Here. That's the truth. It's the reality. Comcast may suck where you live. Not here.

Just because you can not see a difference does not mean that there is not a difference in picture quality between providers. Yes, it does, actually. You are confusing technical metrics, such as compression, with picture quality, which is perceived by the eye.

If in your experience the picture quality is equal in your eyes that's fine, but many can see a difference which makes it valid point in comparing providers, for many of us here at AVS Forum PQ can be a major factor in deciding between providers.As far as I've heard, no one's eyes here in Burlington can see a difference. Again, that's the truth. It's actual. It is because of how good Comcast is here.

So you are denying the reality because you don't experience it. Sorry, but that's way too self-serving. I'm here. I saw. I know. And the fact that Verizon fans incessantly cheer on their service more than is legitimately warranted is a problem. It causes the problem that was alluded to earlier.

So just stop. Stop trying to claim an absolute. Stop trying to claim that everywhere everything is as it is where you are. I'm not denying that there is a difference in the use of compression. I'm telling you, absolutely and without equivocation, that that does not end up resulting in a difference in picture quality. Here. That's the truth. It's the reality. Comcast may suck where you live. Not here.

Yes, it does, actually. You are confusing technical metrics, such as compression, with picture quality, which is perceived by the eye.

As far as I've heard, no one's eyes here in Burlington can see a difference. Again, that's the truth. It's actual. It is because of how good Comcast is here.

Now your arguing just for the sake of arguing. There are over 12,000 post in this thread and your the first to make such a claim. Need I go further or should we all just agree with you?

I don't think you need to agree with me. Rather allow for things to be different than you hold it to be, even if you have a whole bunch of FiOS fans bolstering your jubilation about your preferred service. (And remember, I chose FiOS over Comcast... just not because of PQ, because there is no difference in PQ.) Again, I'm not saying that you don't have better PQ with FiOS. I'm saying I don't. I'm saying that we don't here in Burlington. You truly have no basis on which to refute that, if you haven't been sitting here in my living room.

OK, you're right. You win. Don't let facts impair your judgement.

Either that or Burlington has something in the water.

In any case, I surrender.

I live in Richmond, Va. and had Comcast until Vz. became available. Comcast has diluted their signal here so bad that in the 2 to 3 yrs of HD they had at least a dozen service calls due to pixelization and never was able to solve the problem. That and the fact that here they still have less than 50 HD channels available (including the pay movie Ch.) makes them no comparison to Vz.

I don't think you need to agree with me. Rather allow for things to be different than you hold it to be, even if you have a whole bunch of FiOS fans bolstering your jubilation about your preferred service. (And remember, I chose FiOS over Comcast... just not because of PQ, because there is no difference in PQ.) Again, I'm not saying that you don't have better PQ with FiOS. I'm saying I don't. I'm saying that we don't here in Burlington. You truly have no basis on which to refute that, if you haven't been sitting here in my living room.

Your right bick. I also have a poke-a-dotted pink elephant watching TV with me in my living room. I hope your not going to try and refute that based solely on the reason that your not here. ;)

I don't think you need to agree with me. Rather allow for things to be different than you hold it to be, even if you have a whole bunch of FiOS fans bolstering your jubilation about your preferred service. (And remember, I chose FiOS over Comcast... just not because of PQ, because there is no difference in PQ.) Again, I'm not saying that you don't have better PQ with FiOS. I'm saying I don't. I'm saying that we don't here in Burlington. You truly have no basis on which to refute that, if you haven't been sitting here in my living room.

The absolute *fact* is that the *measurable* picture quality from Comcast is worse than FiOS.

Your *opinion* is that it's the same, for you, with your eyes, on your TV. That's fine.

But you keep doing what you accuse others of doing, by stating your opinion as fact. The only fact is what can be objectively measured in some way - and PQ can be measured, objectively. And Comcast is far worse than FIOS.

But yes, if you're watching on a 13" TV (and I can only assume you are since you didn't answer the direct question to you), then on that TV, a lousy picture from Comcast will look similar to the picture on FiOS. But for people with slightly larger TVs, and those that actually care about PQ, FiOS is clearly better, both in measurable objective fact, and in subjective opinion. As someone said earlier, you're the first person in thousands of posts to say anything close to otherwise.

And it's great to have you spreading the good cheer here, like on the TCF.

I'm so glad bicker got FiOS so he could turn a thread about FiOS programming options into a bickerfest. The more you challenge him, the more incredulous he becomes. Surely you've seen this very nonsense spring up in other threads that he frequents. The only way to stop it is to ignore him.

For every one bicker, there are 50 people with Ron2's opinion. He takes strength from the fact that his opinion is in the minority. He thinks being contrarian is the same thing as being critical and unbiased. This helps him feel superior to others, which is fine. But ultimately it's just his opinion, it's not important, and it's certainly not worth confronting him about for pages on end.

bicker I have nothing against Comcast. I'm just telling it like it is. I was fortunate enough to have them both for 6 months. When it was time to decide which one to stick with, I chose FiOS based on many reasons including PQ, Why is that so hard for you to understand? Why make it a good guy, bad guy thing? Do you think others are not capable of making rationale decisions based on their own experiences. Do tell me!

bicker exists simply to bicker. It's his job. It's his profession. It's what turns him on. Logic and common sense only come into play when it pleases him. Why you guys keep on feeding this troll (and that's really what he is, just in a more sophisticated way) is beyond me.

I have to agree with bicker on this one. we live in the same general area. When i switched from comcast to fios I was very disappointed. Fios was no better than comcast. still had macroblocking/artifacts. the grass in not always greener...

I think a great number of folks do others an injustice, by overstating the quality provided by FiOS. It's good, but the way some folks talk it up, too many prospective customers get the idea that the difference is very significant, when sometimes it is not. Here, in my area, for example, FiOS is just as good as Comcast, in terms of picture quality. So anyone who switches to FiOS, expecting significant improvement, is going to be grievously disappointed, and not because FiOS isn't providing what they're promising (they are) but rather just because of how those prospective customers were led astray by overzealous fans of FiOS.

I'm so glad bicker got FiOS so he could turn a thread about FiOS programming options into a bickerfest. The more you challenge him, the more incredulous he becomes. Surely you've seen this very nonsense spring up in other threads that he frequents. The only way to stop it is to ignore him.

Thank God someone else here can figure this out. :)

Your right bick. I also have a poke-a-dotted pink elephant watching TV with me in my living room. I hope your not going to try and refute that based solely on the reason that your not here. ;)

As usual, I don't have anything substantial to contribute to the discussion, but as a grammar nitpicker, I must point out:
It's "polkadotted."
;)
Thanks for your patience.
Doug

Edit: Oops! It's actually polka-dotted.

Yes, it does, actually. You are confusing technical metrics, such as compression, with picture quality, which is perceived by the eye.


There's a few points here:
*We've known for quite some time that the same cable companies can provide varying levels of quality locally. In some areas wiring is older and in other areas equipment is newer and wiring is in better condition. So the same cable company can provide poor picture quality in one area and good picture quality in another.

*We also know that some people have varying abilities to appreciate subtle to fairly significant differences in picture quality. I can pick up differences in a video signal that my wife simply can't. So I will much more readily appreciate these differences in a picture than will she. In the area of audio, I have friends that can pick up differences that I can't.

*The factor of screen size and quality also comes in to play. A larger, better quality display will show more subtle differences than one that is smaller or of lesser quality.

So the point here is that in your area there may be less of a difference between Comcast and FIOS than in other areas. You may also be less sensitive to differences in picture quality or your display may be less revealing. I had asked about your display size and type, but you didn't respond.

I'm simply saying there are many variables that enter into the picture quality equation. :)

Good read the NCIS thread, there's been discussion a lot about the PQ of teh show. Has nothing to do with the provider.


I was responding to this post from Whocaresit. My point was exactly what you said, that FIOS is not responsible for NCIS's "Blurry" picture.

Verizon FiOS HD Picture Quality is MEDIOCRE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I donot mean to bash the brand name but...

I expected good quality but I see a lot of compression artifacts..

I was watching NCIS (from up close) and all faces are blurry I see a lot of "movie dots" effect. Just about every channel suffers from the same issue. No single channel is "sharp", I'm not talking about tv's sharpness.
There is also the clearly visible compression artifacts sorta like when high quality pictures are compressed to JPEG, except it happens with every frame.

I live in apartments, is it possible that older models of O.N.T. could be the cause of this?
Or is the source material supplied to cable company already compressed?

Is there an additional layer of compression over at Verizon FiOS HQ?

Alexandria left out of Verizon Fios deployment

Washington Business Journal - by Bryant Ruiz Switzky Staff Reporter

The city of Alexandria has been indefinitely shut out of Verizon’s popular Fios television and Internet network, as the company has stopped expansion nationwide of the franchise agreements that allow it to install its fiber-optic network.

Alexandria is the only major local jurisdiction without a franchise agreement for Fios.

Alexandria Mayor William Euille learned of Verizon’s decision Tuesday and plans to discuss the matter and the city’s plans going forward at a City Council meeting Tuesday night.

“All our efforts working with Verizon for the past couple of years have been for naught,” he said in an interview, adding that the city has spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on the efforts.

New York-based Verizon Communications Inc. said it has enough franchise agreements with cities and counties in place to meet its deployment goals. It will now focus on installing its network and gaining market share within the areas where it already has agreements.

Fios is Verizon’s fiber-optic service, which uses pulses of light transmitted across cables made of glass fiber to offer Internet, cable television and phone service at speeds faster than those available on traditional networks. Franchise agreements allow Verizon to connect fiber directly to homes and businesses within a given jurisdiction.

The Alexandria City Council voted to give Verizon a telephone franchise in June, and then began negotiating for a Fios television franchise.

“It was our understanding that once the telephone franchise was signed that they would begin construction [on the fiber optic network] while negotiating the cable franchise to bring the full Fios service to the city,” said Rose Boyd, director of citizen assistance in Alexandria.

But Verizon put those negotiations on hold a few months later as it conducted an assessment, the city said.

After Euille inquired about when Fios could move forward in the city, Robert Woltz, Verizon’s president for Virginia, sent a response that was dated Feb. 18 but received by the city March 9, explaining that Verizon had enough agreements in place to meet its goals for national deployment. “As a result, we will not be able to add the city of Alexandria to our existing portfolio, and at this point, I do not know when that will change,” the letter read.

Euille said Alexandria citizens are “clamoring” for Fios and often don’t understand why it isn’t available. “I’m sure the citizens are just as disheartened by this outcome as I am,” he said, adding that the city will look at alternatives for fiber-optic cable and Internet providers.

Harry Mitchell, a Verizon spokesman, said the company was suspending Fios franchise expansion nationwide and declined to give an estimate for when it might resume expansion beyond its stated goal of offering Fios to 18 million homes by the end of 2010.

As of the end of last year, the company had Fios wired to more than 15 million homes, though not all of those homes are signed up for the service.

http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2010/03/08/daily33.html

bicker exists simply to bicker. It's his job. It's his profession. It's what turns him on. Logic and common sense only come into play when it pleases him. Why you guys keep on feeding this troll (and that's really what he is, just in a more sophisticated way) is beyond me.

Sam, I have been dealing with him for the last 4 years in our local threads. I pretty much know by now what he is going to say and I don't have a problem with it. He is a pretty knowledgeable guy and is well versed in this industry, especially when it comes to rules and regulations. When he crosses the line is when I will jump in and will just use it as an opportunity to sharpen my debating skills since we are usually never on the same page. Plus I think without him, this place would be duller because he will always offer the opposing view regardless of topic which in turn brings out the best in people when they push back making it very entertaining to say the least! :D

As usual, I don't have anything substantial to contribute to the discussion, but as a grammar nitpicker, I must point out:
It's "polkadotted."
;)
Thanks for your patience.
Doug

Edit: Oops! It's actually polka-dotted.

Can I see a ID along with that badge number! :p

Verizon Communications Inc. said it has enough franchise agreements with cities and counties in place to meet its deployment goals. It will now focus on installing its network and gaining market share within the areas where it already has agreements.

Robert Woltz, Verizon’s president for Virginia, sent a response that was dated Feb. 18 but received by the city March 9, explaining that Verizon had enough agreements in place to meet its goals for national deployment.

Harry Mitchell, a Verizon spokesman, said the company was suspending Fios franchise expansion nationwide and declined to give an estimate for when it might resume expansion beyond its stated goal...http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2010/03/08/daily33.htmlWow... Though I don't sub to FiOS TV, I'm glad our part of the city is wired for FiOS. I do have FiOS Internet...

I have to agree with bicker on this one. we live in the same general area. When i switched from comcast to fios I was very disappointed. Fios was no better than comcast. still had macroblocking/artifacts. the grass in not always greener...

If you conducted some type of resolution test, such as the one HDNet broadcasts (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=800757) (haven’t checked to see if they still do this but I used to keep it on my TW DVR) and the results indicated that there is no difference, I’d say that perhaps in your area (and Bicker’s), you might have a different problem-- either with the transmission or the signal, etc.

By the way, the reason I haven’t checked to see if HDNet still airs that test is because I didn't need to verify anything. The difference was noticeable to me-- and the polka-dotted peeping tom sneaking a peek in my window. ;)

Can someone explain why verizon are charging $10 more for Pacquiao vs Clottey?

Can I see a ID along with that badge number! :p

Don't you mean "an ID"? And no, you can't see it, because it only exists in my own mind.
:D
Doug

Alexandria left out of Verizon Fios deployment
...Alexandria is the only major local jurisdiction without a franchise agreement for Fios...

They don't consider Washington DC a "major local jurisdiction"?

Doug

They don't consider Washington DC a "major local jurisdiction"?

Doug

I read it as, in the state of Virginia.

Edit: but I believe that DC has already passed a TV franchise agreement.

I read it as, in the state of Virginia.

Edit: but I believe that DC has already passed a TV franchise agreement.

The informative line in the article is this one:

Alexandria is the only major local jurisdiction without a franchise agreement for Fios.


The rest of the DC metro area (including DC proper) has FiOS in place or agreements for deployment. Between myself and two of my coworkers who subscribe to FiOS we have Fairfax County (VA), Arlington County (VA), and Montgomery County (MD) all with deployed systems. Alexandria was too late to the party. I don't know who's fault this is. It could be that Verizon didn't push for a franchise agreement or asked for too many breaks there or it could be that Alexandria was dragging their feet or demanding too much.

Unless Alexandria can make Verizon a really good offer, they will have to wait until Verizon decides on a new expansion phase. That will likely be years away as they have a lot of build out to do in areas where they already have agreements in place. Too bad for Alexandria, but those are the breaks.

I've heard about it but is it available in Northern VA? Our box is Release 1.7 and the Build is 09.83. How would I figure out if I even have it?

Also...any news on Extra Innings for the coming season? Will they have more games in HD?

Thanks.

I've heard about it but is it available in Northern VA? Our box is Release 1.7 and the Build is 09.83. How would I figure out if I even have it?


It's only available in limited areas of the country and it's very buggy. They're still working the kinks out before they release it to everyone else.

OK, you're right. You win. Don't let facts impair your judgement.I actually have the facts about how the picture quality is here in Burlington; you don't. The abusive manner with which you try to deny my experiences were un-called for. There is no reason for any of you to be so hostile, even though you don't like what I posted.

In any case, I surrender.It isn't a matter of surrendering. It is a matter of letting opposing viewpoints have their say without getting abusive.

The absolute *fact* is that the *measurable* picture quality from Comcast is worse than FiOS.Measurable picture quality is an oxymoron. You can measure compression. You can measure resolution. You cannot measure perceived quality, in the way you're implying.

And let me clue you in to why this is important: The law talks about material degradation and it is very explicit that it is a matter of perception -- not the metrics that you're referring to.

But you keep doing what you accuse others of doing, by stating your opinion as fact.I actually live here in Burlington. I've actually seen the picture quality here.

But yes, if you're watching on a 13" TV (and I can only assume you are since you didn't answer the direct question to you)I didn't see your earlier message. Perhaps it was because of all the rudeness and abuse and hostility that was evident in the messages surrounding yours.

I have a 50" 1080p.

And it's great to have you spreading the good cheer here, like on the TCF.And it sucks that so many people have such a hard to allowing others to have a perspective that differs from theirs. I'm sure glad that we're not discussing our differing religious perspectives, because I suspect some folks here would be inclined towards damning me to hell. :)

The more you challenge him, the more incredulous he becomes.Stop challenging me on things that I have access to the information about and you don't.

For every one bicker, there are 50 people with Ron2's opinion.Even my friend Bill has better picture quality with FiOS than he had with Comcast. I know, because I saw it. I actually saw how his picture quality got better with FiOS, and saw how mine is the same. (And to be very fair, my Comcast picture quality was as good as his FiOS picture quality, so it makes sense.)

He takes strength from the fact that his opinion is in the minority.Actually I take strength from knowing that I'm right, and that the hostility I see is a reflection of immaturity at being unable to accept that reasonable people can disagree agreeably. Some folks simply cannot allow something that they don't like to see posted be posted without trying to squash it out of existence, as if it isn't real, as if it doesn't exist.

I have to agree with bicker on this one. we live in the same general area. When i switched from comcast to fios I was very disappointed. Fios was no better than comcast. still had macroblocking/artifacts. the grass in not always greener...Thank you for chiming in. Know that we're not alone. Comcast here is as good as FiOS, despite all the chest-thumping to the contrary.

Plus I think without him, this place would be duller because he will always offer the opposing view regardless of topic which in turn brings out the best in people when they push back making it very entertaining to say the least! :DThanks for your kind words, but to be clear, I don't chime in when I agree. I find such posts to be inane. "Yes, me too!" Duh. That's stupid. So mostly you will see me offer the opposing view when I hold that view and when that view is valid, because so few people are willing to go up against the bully brigade that we just saw directed towards my comments in this thread. It's a shame that there aren't folks willing to do so in all threads, because the end-result is that in those threads where there aren't folks willing to ignore the bully brigade you end up with a horribly one-sided and therefore inadequate view of the situation. Indeed, that situation actually helps foster a death-spiral of wrong-headedness, because people see the majority view as the only view, and therefore assume that it is the only valid view, and therefore dig into their perspective more deeply, instead of fulfilling, as William Clifford wrote in 1877, their duty of inquiry.

Also...any news on Extra Innings for the coming season? Will they have more games in HD?
Thanks.


http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23808033-HD-Mlb-xtra-innings-2010

It's only available in limited areas of the country and it's very buggy. They're still working the kinks out before they release it to everyone else.

It's buggy?? Been working fine for me. (NJ)

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23808033-HD-Mlb-xtra-innings-2010

Thanks for the replies DCFan. I'm not real crazy about spending $179 for mostly SD games. I may opt for the MLB.TV which shows the games in HD and run it from an extra laptop thru my Samsung HD TV using a SD cable.

... I don't chime in when I agree. I find such posts to be inane. "Yes, me too!" Duh. That's stupid.. +1







:p:D:p sorry, couldn't resist ;) sometimes inane is good.

Measurable picture quality is an oxymoron. You can measure compression. You can measure resolution. You cannot measure perceived quality, in the way you're implying.

And let me clue you in to why this is important: The law talks about material degradation and it is very explicit that it is a matter of perception -- not the metrics that you're referring to.

I actually live here in Burlington. I've actually seen the picture quality here.

I didn't see your earlier message. Perhaps it was because of all the rudeness and abuse and hostility that was evident in the messages surrounding yours.

I have a 50" 1080p.

And it sucks that so many people have such a hard to allowing others to have a perspective that differs from theirs. I'm sure glad that we're not discussing our differing religious perspectives, because I suspect some folks here would be inclined towards damning me to hell. :)

The circular logic and self-contraction within even each sentence is amazing.

Some people must enjoy lonely, lonely lives... I guess that's why they come here and hope for companionship.

Thanks for your kind words, but to be clear, I don't chime in when I agree. I find such posts to be inane. "Yes, me too!" Duh. That's stupid. So mostly you will see me offer the opposing view when I hold that view and when that view is valid, because so few people are willing to go up against the bully brigade that we just saw directed towards my comments in this thread. It's a shame that there aren't folks willing to do so in all threads, because the end-result is that in those threads where there aren't folks willing to ignore the bully brigade you end up with a horribly one-sided and therefore inadequate view of the situation. Indeed, that situation actually helps foster a death-spiral of wrong-headedness, because people see the majority view as the only view, and therefore assume that it is the only valid view, and therefore dig into their perspective more deeply, instead of fulfilling, as William Clifford wrote in 1877, their duty of inquiry.

Alright then, here is some advice. Maybe you should quit while your ahead.

When you dissect every post and every word like it is a scientific experiment, it only POs people and could be perceived as arrogant when you can do it in a much more acceptable manner such as a summary of your opposing view to the post being debated.

Also, yes there are some threads that are very one sided and it is so for a very good reason, the opposing view is WRONG! This does not translate to bullying, only to a matter of fact or it would not be one sided in the first place. By you saying otherwise does not mean it's true.

I would be willing to bet Psychology was not one of your forte's. Other than that, thanks for replying. ;)

The circular logic and self-contraction within even each sentence is amazing.There is no circular logic in my message. There is no self-contradiction.

Some people must enjoy lonely, lonely lives... I guess that's why they come here and hope for companionship.Then turn off your television and go out. If you lived around here, I'd invite you to join my church community. It's a great way to cure yourself of your lonely situation.

Best of luck.

There is no circular logic in my message. There is no self-contradiction.
Of course not! I'd expect nothing less. Thanks for meeting everyone's expectations!:rolleyes:

Then turn off your television and go out. If you lived around here, I'd invite you to join my church community. It's a great way to cure yourself of your lonely situation.

Best of luck.

I'm thinking the "Church of Bicker" probably has one too many people in it already...:eek:

I'm thinking the "Church of Bicker" probably has one too many people in it already...:eek:

Ok, I really did bust out laughing at that.

Yeah, disparaging my religion because he doesn't like my perspective on business makes AbMagFab look really admirable. :rolleyes:

What's next? Insulting my late mother?

Glad I took the weekend off from this.

It just seems like we've come around full-circle (again) on all of this. And, at the end of the day, I'll just agree to disagree.

~Can someone please explain how I can use Slingbox Pro-HD
~family home is in new york city{fios/35down-35up/ultimate hd}....dorm is in buffalo{100down-30up}
Basically I'd like to watch the channels @ home on my laptop while i'm in my dorm


Any suggestions???

Stop challenging me on things that I have access to the information about and you don't.

Even my friend Bill has better picture quality with FiOS than he had with Comcast. I know, because I saw it. I actually saw how his picture quality got better with FiOS, and saw how mine is the same. (And to be very fair, my Comcast picture quality was as good as his FiOS picture quality, so it makes sense.)

Actually I take strength from knowing that I'm right, and that the hostility I see is a reflection of immaturity at being unable to accept that reasonable people can disagree agreeably. Some folks simply cannot allow something that they don't like to see posted be posted without trying to squash it out of existence, as if it isn't real, as if it doesn't exist.I probably shouldn't dredge this up now that several days have passed, and especially since responding to you goes against everything I posted, but here I go anyway.

What are you right about, exactly? That in your unique situation, the PQ that you had with Comcast is the same as you now have with FiOS? What does that prove? You're just one person. Your experience is anecdotal at best. There's a whole thread here on AVS with over a thousand posts (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008271&page=33) documenting and describing PQ deficiencies with Comcast signals. What is the value of being "right" in your singular circumstance if it's not even remotely representative of the typical experience?

Does your friend Bill live in the same place as you? Is he serviced by the same Comcast system? Because, if he is, then that just makes this whole conversation even more preposterous than it already was. Then we can't even say that one Comcast system does indeed offer comparable PQ to Verizon. It's just some fluke that you happened to apparently luck into.

I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, and I'm sure you'll find a way to dismiss this or confuse the issue, but let me ask you this straight up: Do you believe that the average Comcast subscriber experiences the same PQ as the average Verizon subscriber? If you do, then why and what's your evidence? If you don't, then who gives a flying you-know-what about your personal experience? It's not representative.

It just seems like we've come around full-circle (again) on all of this. And, at the end of the day, I'll just agree to disagree.That would be great; it's really the best way of handling all disagreements where we don't see a way of (or don't even care to) sway the opposing viewpoint.

I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, and I'm sure you'll find a way to dismiss this or confuse the issue, but let me ask you this straight up: Do you believe that the average Comcast subscriber experiences the same PQ as the average Verizon subscriber?Holy heck, no. Comcast in the Boston area is better than Comcast practically anywhere else -- perhaps absolutely anywhere else for all I know. As far as I know, it is only here in this area that folks have the experience that Bill and I have, that FiOS and Comcast are just as good as each other, in terms of picture quality. The point I've made several times is that FiOS fans do folks a disservice when they claim that FiOS picture quality is always better. It isn't. In this area, it is just the same.

It's not representative.And your experience, and that of a bunch of other folks in this thread, doesn't prove that FiOS' picture quality is always better. That's the point. All that's needed is for folks to respect when other people post that they have found that FiOS' picture quality is not better, i.e., is just the same, for them. Let people post perspectives that are different from yours.

And if you want a sample, check out the Boston-Verizon thread today. A user, troyka, is saying that FiOS is actually worse than Comcast. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I don't believe that is the case. Go over to the Boston thread and see how I address our disagreement. Then compare it to the hostility and abusiveness that was piled onto me here in this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18311604#post18311604

And if you want a sample, check out the Boston-Verizon thread today. A user, troyka, is saying that FiOS is actually worse than Comcast. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I don't believe that is the case. Go over to the Boston thread and see how I address our disagreement. Then compare it to the hostility and abusiveness that was piled onto me here in this thread.


Why don't you be up front and tell us that the particular poster was only referring to SD PQ, not HD which is what most people in this thread would think comparisons are based on.

Secondly, I live in the so called Boston area of Comcast that you like to refer to as the best in the country and don't agree with your assessment when compared to FiOS.

Saying that, I thought people would like a balance view on this particular topic as of course it is something you so often preach.

Since I disagree with you on this, does that make my claim invalid or am I just trying to be a bully since it coincides with the majority of opinion in this thread?

I'm curious for your response.

A friend of mine in Portland, OR says his Comcast service is quite good. Docsis or something like that? I was under the impression that that only pertained to internet connections, but he says his Comcast PQ was "pretty close" to FiOS, though he did not qualify that statement with anything other than his opinion. I have no reason to doubt him though. I'm sure it's possible, but if you want me to jump on board and be a true believer, prove it. Show me. I don't even need highly technical samples. Just some screen captures would do it for me. I personally couldn't care less though. I have FiOS, I'm very happy with it, and Comcast around here is simply awful.

Why don't you be up front and tell us that the particular poster was only referring to SD PQ, not HD which is what most people in this thread would think comparisons are based on.


Veryu good point. I don't really know which is better re: SD, since I never watch them anymore. . But FIOS wins in my area for HD PQ over Comcast easily.

SD on FIOS still blows SD on Comcast out of the water, at least in my area. Comcast in my area didn't even have ADS, so most of the SD stations were anything but clean.

I have FIOS, but I've only compared it to Dish Network, which is what I had before FIOS. On my 42" LCD TV, SD channels were virtually unwatchable from Dish. On FIOS, they aren't too bad, quite watchable. HD channels got a boost, too, but nothing like the boost the SD channels got.

Why don't you be up front and tell us that the particular poster was only referring to SD PQ, not HD which is what most people in this thread would think comparisons are based on.Sorry for the omission. It wasn't deliberate and indeed isn't relevant to the point, i.e., with regard to how to disagree agreeably. I could just as well have referred to a disagreement about billing, or about some vacation destination, etc.

Secondly, I live in the so called Boston area of Comcast that you like to refer to as the best in the country and don't agree with your assessment when compared to FiOS.That's okay. Reasonable people can disagree.

Since I disagree with you on this, does that make my claim invalid or am I just trying to be a bully since it coincides with the majority of opinion in this thread?I think there is a difference between disagreeing, as we're doing here, and ladling on abuse and hostility, as several posters ladled onto me, earlier in this thread.

I'm curious for your response.I hope I've satisfied. :)

Yeah, disparaging my religion because he doesn't like my perspective on business makes AbMagFab look really admirable. :rolleyes:

What's next? Insulting my late mother?
you mean you were actually born?

Fyi:

fios buildout is dying

Seidenberg's on the way out and Verizon is changing. They have now canceled planned FiOS deployments for all new territories such as Alexandria, Virginia. According to Bryant Ruiz Switzky in the WIvan and Daveashington Business Journal, Verizon is "suspending Fios franchise expansion nationwide." They are "indefinitely postponing" building Alexandria after telling the city they would begin construction several months ago. Alexandria is one of the richest suburbs in the world and a natural part of the network with a lower than average likely construction cost. Verizon "will now focus on installing its network and gaining market share within the areas where it already has agreements." Bostonians and 10M other Verizon customers are apparently screwed.

Verizon has buildout commitments to New York and other cities that will keep some crews working, but had already suggested they might cut FiOS builds by 2/3rds in 2011. This is now a further cutback, canceling areas that for years they had been promising to serve. Verizon's Harry Mitchell sends their perspective. "The bottom line is that Verizon said in 2004 we’d build to pass about 18 million homes by year-end 2010, and we’re on track to do that with the franchises we currently have. Of course, we will also meet any buildout commitments we made in individual jurisdictions beyond 2010."

Ivan in an investor call suggested one reason they may be cutting their investment: the broadband plan and stimulus are reducing company spending. So Seidenberg suggested he might ask for government money, and the broadband plan has many "incentives" for him to spend less company money. Blair should take this as a signal to yank any offers to pay telcos to upgrade broadband where it already is available from cablecos or others. Smelling government money, they are cutting back their own investment and then demanding the government pay them instead. 2009 was almost certainly the worst year in a decade for expanding broadband in the U.S. Comany after company cancelled firm plans waiting for the government to pay them for what they intended to do without subsidy.

Over the last few years it's become apparent that Seidenberg's personal desire to beat the competition has been the primary reason the U.S. is not further behind. FiOS is the largest new network built in the Western world. Cable's DOCSIS 3.0 was developed as a response to FiOS. Brian Roberts of Comcast tells the story of lookng Ivan in the eyes, deciding he was going ahead, and then giving orders to his team and Cablelabs to go full steam ahead on DOCSIS.

Euille said Alexandria citizens are “clamoring” for Fios and often don’t understand why it isn’t available. “I’m sure the citizens are just as disheartened by this outcome as I am,” he said, adding that the city will look at alternatives.(Switzky) Alexandria can't afford for the neighboring towns to have better Internet service, so building their own network is the obvious step.

http://fastnetnews.com/dslprime/42-d/2637-fios-buildout-is-dying

Enough of the personal and non-productive comments. Agree to disagree and move on, or moderator action will be taken.

Enough of the personal and non-productive comments. Agree to disagree and move on, or moderator action will be taken.
Ken- Thank you very much.

Enough of the personal and non-productive comments. Agree to disagree and move on, or moderator action will be taken.

took the words right outta my mouth...it's not fair my post gets overlooked over a debate over SD picture quality

~Can someone please explain how I can use Slingbox Pro-HD
~family home is in new york city{fios/35down-35up/ultimate hd}....dorm is in buffalo{100down-30up}
Basically I'd like to watch the channels @ home on my laptop while i'm in my dorm


Any suggestions???

took the words right outta my mouth...it's not fair my post gets overlooked over a debate over SD picture quality

But your post doesn't really belong here. The "basic" information you're seeking is the same whether your programming source is FiOS or Comcast or Time Warner or Cablevision or anyone else. What does your question have to do with "Verizon FiOS HDTV"?

By posting in this thread, you're limiting your audience to those who have

FiOS and Slingbox Pro-HD.

In a more appropriate forum your audience would be those who have

(FiOS or Comcast or Time Warner or Cablevision) and Slingbox Pro-HD.

Now, if you're having a problem with your Slingbox that you believe is somehow related to differences between FiOS and any other programming source, then maybe someone here can help.

I'm not familiar with Slingbox, so I can't tell you where to look. Search this site; check Slingbox support forums.

hey guys...

anybody else get a message about an update to the FiOS channel guide today? my guide no longer shows widescreen. i get black bars on both sides. it's very annoying.

anyone else agree?

meantime, i totally thought there was something wrong w\ my set top box, but i have two and they are both exhibiting this new behavior.

what a shame.

CMM.

The revent STB software update to 1.7.1 made the guide go back to 4:3 instead of stretched to 16:9.

Coalition presses Verizon to bring high-speed Internet service to Baltimore

City bypassed on FiOS, bus billboards will say

Using a bus billboard campaign, a coalition of 20 churches, labor groups and community organizations is trying to pressure Verizon Maryland to bring its next-generation, high-speed Internet service to Baltimore.

The service, marketed as FiOS, is available or being rolled out in several counties around the city and in Washington, but critics accuse Verizon of leaving Baltimore out of expansion plans. With high-capacity fiber-optic wiring, FiOS can offer television, telephone and Internet download speeds of up to 50 megabits per second - many times faster than a typical digital-subscriber line or cable-modem connection.

"As anyone who is a native of Baltimore knows, there's a long history of companies not investing in Baltimore," said Matthew Weinstein, Baltimore regional director for Progressive Maryland, the nonprofit that organized the coalition.

Weinstein, who kicked off the campaign at a small rally outside Verizon Maryland's headquarters in downtown Baltimore, accused the company of "redlining" Baltimore - of avoiding poor inner-city neighborhoods and choosing instead to invest in more affluent suburbs. The bus billboard that Progressive Maryland commissioned states: "This bus isn't the only thing passing you by. Verizon's bringing high speed Internet everywhere but Baltimore."

Sandra Arnette, a Verizon Maryland spokeswoman, denied that the company is ignoring Baltimore.

"Not once have we ever said we're not coming to Baltimore City," Arnette said.

But, she said, Verizon has already agreed to build the FiOS network in other parts of the state and has put a halt on new deployments nationwide so that it can focus on building out the areas where it has existing commitments.

"There are other major cities where we're not currently offering the service," Arnette said. "But that's not to say we won't be looking to move into those areas in the near future. We just ask people to be patient."

Verizon FiOS is available to communities in 16 states, Arnette said. The company is offering the service at least in some parts of several major cities, including Los Angeles, Washington, New York, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Richmond, Va., and a handful of cities in New Jersey.

In addition to Baltimore, FiOS is not available in Boston, Syracuse, Albany or Buffalo, Arnette said.

In Maryland, Arnette said, FiOS is in various stages of deployment in Anne Arundel, Baltimore, Harford, Howard, Montgomery and Prince George's counties.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/technology/bal-bz.fios17mar17,0,7212708.story

My son was waiting for FIOS cable to be laid on his street. However, he reports that VERIZON is leaving Florida to concentrate on California. Have I missed something?

I havent heard anything, maybe they can try getting fios into los angeles, california was one of the 1st states to get fios so maybe they want to go back and put fios in major cities?heck they put fios here in apple valley back around 2006 or 2007 population around 100,000.

However, he reports that VERIZON is leaving Florida to concentrate on California.

It's possible.

I havent heard anything,

maybe they can try getting fios into los angeles

Very doubtful.

Coalition presses Verizon to bring high-speed Internet service to Baltimore

City bypassed on FiOS, bus billboards will say

Using a bus billboard campaign, a coalition of 20 churches, labor groups and community organizations is trying to pressure Verizon Maryland to bring its next-generation, high-speed Internet service to Baltimore.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/technology/bal-bz.fios17mar17,0,7212708.story

just get Cal to speak out (or that Ace of Cakes guy).

FIOS tv may finally be expanding in south country of rhode island, hearing reports that fios tv trucks are installing wires in ashaway. Sorry Cox!

FIOS tv may finally be expanding in south country of rhode island, hearing reports that fios tv trucks are installing wires in ashaway. Sorry Cox!

That's good to hear! I'm in No. Kingstown and just switched to Fios from DirecTV/Cox (internet/phone). Fios TV is incredible! The PQ blows D* away! The internet seems to be about the same as Cox. I have 25/25 w/ Fios. The MR DVR is cool and I get a bunch of channels now that I didn't get w/ D*.

My parents have Cox HD and while it looks pretty good, Fios is much sharper. Fios just offers so much more than Cox. I think you'll enjoy it.

hey guys...

anybody else get a message about an update to the FiOS channel guide today? my guide no longer shows widescreen. i get black bars on both sides. it's very annoying.

anyone else agree?

meantime, i totally thought there was something wrong w\ my set top box, but i have two and they are both exhibiting this new behavior.

what a shame.

CMM.

I had the same thing happen with the firmware update. The guide is now 4:3 instead of 16:9. I do not see any option to get it back to 16:9 either. What a bummer. I came to this site to see if this issue was known. I am also experiencing a reduction in the STB sound output since the firmware update. I now need to turn the volume up 5 - 10 more than before to get the same sound output. Am I alone on the sound issue? The sound issue is not a big deal but very odd.

same here too.

hey guys...

what a shame.


Heh, i for one am thankful to see the guide on the HD box back the way it used to be. That stretched guide was BS. I'd rather see the 4:3 guide with bars then to have that fuzzy text, stretched nightmare.

The 6416 never got the "oops" stretched guide, so our experience in our main tv was spared, but our 7200 HD box got it and it made me want to throw up in my mouth LOL. The half guide just looked awful stretched, and was just unbearable to endure.

Waiting (im)patiently for a true 16:9 guide.

Geez I sound pretty passionate about this. Hmph...

Heh, i for one am thankful to see the guide on the HD box back the way it used to be. That stretched guide was BS. I'd rather see the 4:3 guide with bars then to have that fuzzy text, stretched nightmare.

I'm still on 1.7 and the "stretched" guide looks fantastic on my 32 inch LCD with the 7100. The picture couldn't be any clearer. I much prefer that than the 4:3 guide on my 51 inch with the 6416.

To make all parties happy, they could (should!) allow the end user to set the guide aspect ratio as preferred. Of course I would rather see a true 16:9 HD guide, but that does not appear as easy to implement as the guide stretch/4:3 option.

To make all parties happy, they could (should!) allow the end user to set the guide aspect ratio as preferred.

That's coming in a future update.

Thanks. Where can I see what is coming in the future updates? Is a true 16:9 guide on the horizon? The Caller ID feature was a great addition this time around.

I'm still on 1.7 and the "stretched" guide looks fantastic on my 32 inch LCD with the 7100. The picture couldn't be any clearer. I much prefer that than the 4:3 guide on my 51 inch with the 6416.

I was hoping to see the stretched guide gone from the 7100 last night when I got home, after seeing these posts, but its still there! Which makes sense, I believe I'm the same VHO as you (Howard County).

I looked again at the half screen guide to make sure I was being fair in my assessment that it looks awful, and yeah, it still looks awful to me, LOL. I just don't like the fuzz or the stretch, but to each their own I guess. Different strokes for different folks.

I can't imagine screen size making a difference for me. We have 42" and 58" and stretching the guide on either one just looks awful to me.

Still have the stretched guide here in Arlington, VA.

Does power cycling the boxes check for a software update or is it only pushed out and I'll get it when I get it?

I don't know about anyone else but since this latest update, my multi-room DVR is buggier than before. Picture freezes but audio does not as well as the FF & RW buttons are a lot less accurate, weird.

anybody know what parts of los angeles fios is in? I have fios in jersey but plan on moving to Los Angeles and dont want to lose the service

anybody know what parts of los angeles fios is in? I have fios in jersey but plan on moving to Los Angeles and dont want to lose the service

In Orange County, FiOS is available in some parts of Brea, Cypress, Fountain Valley, Garden Grove, Huntington Beach, La Habra, La Palma, Los Alamitos, Seal Beach, Stanton, Westminster and certain unincorporated areas.

Wow, FIOS is fast. That night's shows go up in HD OnDemand pretty much as soon as they're over. All the networks are there except FOX and CW (and I guess it's only a matter of time). A great way to save on harddrive space.

Wow, FIOS is fast. That night's shows go up in HD OnDemand pretty much as soon as they're over. All the networks are there except FOX and CW (and I guess it's only a matter of time). A great way to save on harddrive space.

And without the commercials!

Wow, FIOS is fast. That night's shows go up in HD OnDemand pretty much as soon as they're over. All the networks are there except FOX and CW (and I guess it's only a matter of time). A great way to save on harddrive space.What show are you talking about?

I guess it is area specific or maybe shows are available at different times.
Last week I tried to watch Flash Forward the night after its airing and it was only available is SD. Why bother? :rolleyes: I checked again over the weekend and it was finally listed in the OD HD menu but there were no episodes available. And there are commercials, at least for Flash Forward. The same ones over and over and over again. And—no fast forwarding at all.

And without the commercials!I spoke too soon. I guess it varies from network to network. I watched the most recent episode of Chuck on NBC's HD OnDemand and not only were there plenty of unskippable commercial breaks (you cannot FF), it was only DD 2.0 as well. This is opposed to CBS' OnDemand which you can FF and is DD5.1.

And without the commercials!

The ABC shows that I've seen OnDemand have the same 2 Disney commercials about every 5 minutes. and you can't fast forward through it.

I switched to FIOS from DirecTV a little over a month ago. I had read (I thought) that FIOS pushed through HD channels at source provided bitrate and resolution. I have noticed a quality improvement on channels. With that said I have been looking at bitrates on my TiVo via KMTTG. Some channels like HDNet and HDN Movies have bitrates almost at 19 which seems as good as it gets. Others like Cinemax East are about 14. Then Cinemax West is all the way down to 11? Is Cinemax providing only 11 or is FIOS re-encoding and squishing it in?

Just curious what the current bitrate status is on FIOS. Thanks.

Using a bus billboard campaign, a coalition of 20 churches, labor groups and community organizations is trying to pressure Verizon Maryland to bring its next-generation, high-speed Internet service to Baltimore.

I actually saw one of these driving to work the other day. Looks pretty good to me. Not sure it will do any good however. My work place is just south of the County / City line so anything that will get FIOS to me I am all for it. The sooner I can drop my Verizon T1 and get Verizon FIOS of 25x speed for .25X the cost I am ready. The funny thing is there is FIOS Internet (and maybe phone?) already in the city in some locations they just don't seem to want to do any further work.

One can dream.

I switched to FIOS from DirecTV a little over a month ago. I had read (I thought) that FIOS pushed through HD channels at source provided bitrate and resolution. I have noticed a quality improvement on channels. With that said I have been looking at bitrates on my TiVo via KMTTG. Some channels like HDNet and HDN Movies have bitrates almost at 19 which seems as good as it gets. Others like Cinemax East are about 14. Then Cinemax West is all the way down to 11? Is Cinemax providing only 11 or is FIOS re-encoding and squishing it in?

Just curious what the current bitrate status is on FIOS. Thanks.

It's what Cinemax is sending. Verizon is doing no shaping or compressing of the source signals.

Weren't we suppose to have a free Showtime preview starting today?

Weren't we suppose to have a free Showtime preview starting today?

Not till March 25th (Thursday)

Weren't we suppose to have a free Showtime preview starting today?

Trust me when I tell you that it isn't that hard to scan the first 20 thread titles on the 1st page:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1235816

Give it a shot next time.

Most of the secondary premium HD channels are fed only in MPEG4, which is then recompressed to MPEG2 by Verizon because the older HD boxes don't support MPEG4. Verizon does utilize encoders that are capable of VBR encoding and gives sufficient headroom to allow a nearly transparent conversion. This means that low motion content will only hit 8-11Mb/s on average, while it will go up to 15 or more if the source and content warrants it.

Where do you set up caller ID function? I have looked through everything on the box and I still can't find it.

Most of the secondary premium HD channels are fed only in MPEG4, which is then recompressed to MPEG2 by Verizon because the older HD boxes don't support MPEG4. Verizon does utilize encoders that are capable of VBR encoding and gives sufficient headroom to allow a nearly transparent conversion. This means that low motion content will only hit 8-11Mb/s on average, while it will go up to 15 or more if the source and content warrants it.

It's not recompressed, it's transcoded. Big difference.

Where do you set up caller ID function? I have looked through everything on the box and I still can't find it.


MENU
SETTINGS
Tab over to:
CALLER ID

Where do you set up caller ID function? I have looked through everything on the box and I still can't find it.

It's not available in our VHO yet. In fact it's only out in limited areas so far. They're still working out the bugs before they release it nationwide. Imagine a phone company having trouble with caller id. :confused:

It's not recompressed, it's transcoded. Big difference.
Six of one, half dozen of the other. The video is decoded to baseband, then compressed to MPEG2. You can't losslessly convert to a lossy compression scheme. The only difference from what cable providers do is that Verizon gives each HD channel 1/2 a QAM channel, allowing for peak video bitrates in the 17-18Mb/s range, while cable providers 3 pack them giving peak bitrates in the 14-15Mb/s range, and requiring the other channels to suffer in order to improve one. MPEG2-fed channels aren't recompressed by Verizon, while the same additional compression is done by cablecos.

I often wonder if Verizon will silently transition to up to 3 HDs per QAM for some channels as distribution moves more and more toward MPEG4. Since they have to transcode to MPEG2 anyways, they can't keep their claim of an untouched video stream.

At the very least, they may massage the bitrates some so that they could fit an SD channel or two in with two HDs to make more effecient use of qam space.

Most of the secondary premium HD channels are fed only in MPEG4, which is then recompressed to MPEG2 by Verizon because the older HD boxes don't support MPEG4. Verizon does utilize encoders that are capable of VBR encoding and gives sufficient headroom to allow a nearly transparent conversion. This means that low motion content will only hit 8-11Mb/s on average, while it will go up to 15 or more if the source and content warrants it.To my knowledge, only HBO/Cinemax are doing it, and only for their multiplex feeds (so 22 total channels). Those 22 take up 11 QAM now. If you shifted them to 3 per QAM instead, you would save 3.5 QAM.

It's not available in our VHO yet. In fact it's only out in limited areas so far. They're still working out the bugs before they release it nationwide. Imagine a phone company having trouble with caller id. :confused:

Bugs? We've had it for months and have had no problems with it all! You can even set up the duration that the message appears on the screen...either 5, 10, or 15 seconds.

Bugs? We've had it for months and have had no problems with it all! You can even set up the duration that the message appears on the screen...either 5, 10, or 15 seconds.

Yep, lots of bugs, so much so that it needs to be fumigated.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23336290-Caller-ID-on-TV

I was hoping to see the stretched guide gone from the 7100 last night when I got home, after seeing these posts, but its still there! Which makes sense, I believe I'm the same VHO as you (Howard County).

So we got the 1.7.1 update the other night and we're back to the 4:3 guide. I think it's low tech looking with the bars on the side. You glad it's been reverted?

So we got the 1.7.1 update the other night and we're back to the 4:3 guide. I think it's low tech looking with the bars on the side. You glad it's been reverted?

I can't believe anyone thinks this 4:3 guide on an HD TV looks good. I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt so maybe it is TV dependent? Looked great on my Samsung. Now it looks small and stupid.

Verizon is working on a "True" 16:9 guide and not the so called "stretched" guide that was in 1.7.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/03/26/business/AP-US-TEC-Verizon-FiOS.html?_r=1&nl=technology&emc=techupdateema3&pagewanted=print

NEW YORK (AP) -- If Verizon Communications Inc. hasn't already started wiring your city or town with its FiOS fiber-optic TV and broadband service, chances are you won't get it.

Where it's available, FiOS usually provides the only competition for cable TV apart from satellite service. Studies have shown that its entry into an area leads to lower cable prices, though FiOS itself has not been undercutting cable TV prices substantially.

But Verizon is nearing the end of its program to replace copper phone lines with optical fibers that provide much higher Internet speeds and TV service. Its focus is now on completing the network in the communities where it's already secured ''franchises,'' the rights to sell TV service that rivals cable, said spokeswoman Heather Wilner.

That means Verizon will continue to pull fiber to homes in Washington, D.C., New York City and Philadelphia -- projects that will take years to complete -- but leaves such major cities as Baltimore and downtown Boston without FiOS.

Verizon is still negotiating for franchises in some smaller communities, mainly in New York, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania, but it is not working on securing franchises for any major urban areas, Wilner said. For instance, it's halted negotiations for the Washington suburb of Alexandria, Va.

I just posted this to HDTV Technical (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1238269), but thought this might be a good spot too. If not, please forgive me.

Ok, we just finally switched to FiOS (our condo just got wired) from Comcast. And although we hadn't been paying for HDTV /w Comcast (although I have in the past /w same Onkyo SR-601), we now get HDTV service with FiOS. And although I'm not 100% positive, I'm pretty sure we were getting DD5.1 the night it got installed, but now we're not. I'm using an optical toslink cable from the Moto 7216 to my Onkyo AVR, but it's only showing Pro-Logic II (not the usual Dolby D) when watching an HDTV channel. Now I know not all shows broadcast in DD5.1, and we're not paying for movie channels like HBO (as we never watched them). But watched Flash Forward & Grey's last night, both of which showed PLII on Onkyo. I've gone into the FiOS menu on the 7216, audio is set to Surround Sound, I even tried switching it to mono & stereo, then back to SS, thinking that might reset it. Also, my Onkyo has 2 opticals and 1 coax...and the Moto supports both. So I thought maybe my optical cable (or port on Onkyo might be toast), so I unplugged the coax from my DVD player and plugged it into the Moto, still nothing...and my DVD playes DD5.1 just fine.

The only other thing I can think of, is in troubleshooting their Media Manager (streaming music fine but not video), I found a post that said to powercycle the 7216...which I did. But was pointless, because even though it did work, the vid quality is horrendous. And I'm not using HDMI for TV (component), so it's not sending the audio via HDMI to TV instead of the AVR.

I did an online chat /w Verizon, but they were pretty useless. Asked/told me the same things I already tried. Then finally said they only support "basic audio setup" and that I need to contact Onkyo support!!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I can't believe anyone thinks this 4:3 guide on an HD TV looks good. I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt so maybe it is TV dependent? Looked great on my Samsung. Now it looks small and stupid.

Verizon is working on a "True" 16:9 guide and not the so called "stretched" guide that was in 1.7.

Just to provide the opposite opinion, I thought the stretched guide looked horrible on my Samsung. The non-stretched guide is a significant improvement.

But I too will welcome a true 16:9 guide, hopefully in a higher resolution than the current version.

Many ABC programs (Greys,etc.) are sent in PLII. ABC has chosen to steal audio bandwidth to support their stupid "Live well" sub-channel. Overall, ABC has the worst audio quality of all the major channels.

Try CBS. almost everything there is DD, as is NBC. Most of the primary premium channels are in DD, but sometimes the secondary ones (west, action, etc.) only supply PLII.

I have no suggestions for Media Manager. I don't use it.

The audio setup on the DVR shouldn't matter with OPT or HDMI, you'll get the MCH output as it is encoded in the programming from the broadcaster.

Now I know not all shows broadcast in DD5.1, and we're not paying for movie channels like HBO (as we never watched them).

Try it again with the primetime network shows at 8 or 9pm tonight. That or there is a free preview of showtime, the movie channel, sundance, and flix starting today and running thru the weekend. Showtime at least should be in 5.1.

Showtime at least should be in 5.1.

Thanks for the tip on the Showtime preview. Just checked Showtime, and it's PLII, not DD5.1.

That could be that whatever programming Showtime is playing is not in DD.

Try CBS now.

Thanks for the tip on the Showtime preview. Just checked Showtime, and it's PLII, not DD5.1.

I think you might be confused.

PLII is a matrixing that your AVR/pre-pro can do to sound. It has nothing to do with the source signal.

DD5.1 is the format of the source signal.

You could have DD5.1 + PLII
You could have DD2.0 + PLII
You could have DD5.1 w/out PLII
You could have DD5.1 + THX Movie
etc.

PLII is not related to the source signal, and is simply how you have your AVR/pre-pro configured.

Thanks for the tip on the Showtime preview. Just checked Showtime, and it's PLII, not DD5.1.

Ok, I just turned on Showtime (The Moguls) and my stereo receiver says it's Dolby Digital. Mine is connected via toslink.

I think you might be confused.

PLII is a matrixing that your AVR/pre-pro can do to sound. It has nothing to do with the source signal.

DD5.1 is the format of the source signal.

You could have DD5.1 + PLII
You could have DD2.0 + PLII
You could have DD5.1 w/out PLII
You could have DD5.1 + THX Movie
etc.

PLII is not related to the source signal, and is simply how you have your AVR/pre-pro configured.

Ummm, yea. Duh! Forgot about that. I'm so used to "Auto" on my AVR that I forgot that you can actually apply PLII to that.

OP should check his AVR settings to see if he inadvertently selected PLII :(

I can't believe anyone thinks this 4:3 guide on an HD TV looks good. I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt so maybe it is TV dependent? Looked great on my Samsung. Now it looks small and stupid.

Verizon is working on a "True" 16:9 guide and not the so called "stretched" guide that was in 1.7.

I don't think it does because it's distorted. The proportions are all wrong. The guide is rendered in 4:3 so it should be shown in 4:3 (just like 4:3 TV shows should be shown in 4:3 and not stretched.) The biggest offender are the channel icons which look all flattened.

I think you might be confused.

PLII is a matrixing that your AVR/pre-pro can do to sound. It has nothing to do with the source signal...

...You could have DD5.1 + PLII
You could have DD2.0 + PLII...

Yes, I know this. But on my AVR (Onkyo SR601), when it's receiving a digital signal, it will automatically show "Dolby D". Then (I think), if I hit the Surround Sound button (on remote), it will switch to DTS (if supported) and then back again to DD if pressed again. If it's an analog signal, it will show PLII Movie, and pressing it again doesn't change anything.

Also normally when watching something in DD, if I switch it from Dolby D to Stereo (and back) you will hear a click in the Onkyo. I'm guessing some electronic switch that switches it from an analog signal to the digital signal.

The only other thing that I can think of, is maybe there's some setting in my receiver that got switched (but I haven't changed anything) that's preventing it from playing the DD signal, and instead is applying the PLII matrixing.

I don't think it does because it's distorted. The proportions are all wrong. The guide is rendered in 4:3 so it should be shown in 4:3 (just like 4:3 TV shows should be shown in 4:3 and not stretched.) The biggest offender are the channel icons which look all flattened.

^^^This!

The proportions are off and the text is blurry. I've had FiOS for 3 years so I saw the guide in its correct portions before the update changed it to stretched on some of the HD boxes so to see it go to stretched was absolute turnoff.

As for tv, it looked awful to me on my 58" plasma samsung and on my 42" plasma. I'ts not the tv or the size, its' that the proportions are wrong that kill it for me and that doesn't change from one tv to the next.

Yes, I know this. But on my AVR (Onkyo SR601), when it's receiving a digital signal, it will automatically show "Dolby D". Then (I think), if I hit the Surround Sound button (on remote), it will switch to DTS (if supported) and then back again to DD if pressed again. If it's an analog signal, it will show PLII Movie, and pressing it again doesn't change anything.

Also normally when watching something in DD, if I switch it from Dolby D to Stereo (and back) you will hear a click in the Onkyo. I'm guessing some electronic switch that switches it from an analog signal to the digital signal.

The only other thing that I can think of, is maybe there's some setting in my receiver that got switched (but I haven't changed anything) that's preventing it from playing the DD signal, and instead is applying the PLII matrixing.

Again, you're sort of mixing things, and it's understandable.

DTS is both a source format, and a matrixing mode. But you'll never see DTS for anything on TV, just DD/AC3. So when you see DTS (like DTS Neo:6), it's the same thing as PLII - just a matrixing mode that has nothing to do with the source signal.

"Dolby" is also both a source format and a matrixing mode (PLII is Dolby).

In any case, you need to distinguish the matrixing from the source format. If you've got the DVR plugged in via HDMI or optical, then you're going to get Dolby Digital all the time (I'm pretty sure), plus additional matrixing from your AVR that might say any number of things.

Just make sure you don't have any analog RCA connections.

^^^This!

The proportions are off and the text is blurry. I've had FiOS for 3 years so I saw the guide in its correct portions before the update changed it to stretched on some of the HD boxes so to see it go to stretched was absolute turnoff.

As for tv, it looked awful to me on my 58" plasma samsung and on my 42" plasma. I'ts not the tv or the size, its' that the proportions are wrong that kill it for me and that doesn't change from one tv to the next.

IMO, it needs to be more intelligent. on SD channels it should show 4:3. On HD it needs to show 16:9 with 3 hr window, not stretch 4:3 90 min view.

I agree on the channel icons. Should be smaller. What I don't particularly like is the wide row of information on the channel in focus in the middle of the screen. Wish I could turn that on/off.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/03/26/business/AP-US-TEC-Verizon-FiOS.html?_r=1&nl=technology&emc=techupdateema3&pagewanted=printTo steal a phrase, "This (meaning making an official announcement like this) is BIG". It can signal nothing less than a realization that providing terrestrial services is simply not shaping up to be sufficiently profitable to foster growth in competition -- that it is not worth anyone's while to offer more service choices. We've evidently despoiled the marketplace so badly (government imposing regulations and consumers engaging in rampant bargain-hunting) that no company, not even deep-pockets Verizon, can craft a defensible business plan that includes service "everywhere".

I don't think it does because it's distorted. The proportions are all wrong. The guide is rendered in 4:3 so it should be shown in 4:3 (just like 4:3 TV shows should be shown in 4:3 and not stretched.) The biggest offender are the channel icons which look all flattened.

I would agree.

Neither way is the best way to do it, but that option isn't out there yet. One way is bad, the other is ugly. While the 4:3 formatted guide is not great to look at, the text is rendered as it should be and is easier to read.

However, when they first switched over to the stretched guide, it messed with my (slightly aging) eyes quite a bit. I perceived it as blurry and it really did cause me problems in using the guide. We can only hope to get the true 16:9 guide soon. I'd love for it to show more information as opposed to the current hour and a half.

Again, you're sort of mixing things, and it's understandable.

DTS is both a source format, and a matrixing mode. But you'll never see DTS for anything on TV, just DD/AC3. So when you see DTS (like DTS Neo:6), it's the same thing as PLII - just a matrixing mode that has nothing to do with the source signal.


Yeah, I was thinking when I have a DVD that has both Dolby & DTS soundtracks on it, you can switch between the two. But when I'm watching something that is DD5.1, I can't switch it to PLII. I can switch it to Stereo (Digital), but hitting the SS key doesn't have any effect.

But I got it working. I looked on the back of the SD STB they setup in the bedroom, and it also has digital optical & coaxial connections. So I plugged it into my AVR, surfed to Showtime (Twilight), and MAGIC!! DD5.1!! Left it plugged in for maybe 30 minutes, then plugged in the M-R DVR, and had 5.1 on all HD channels. But I don't get it, I had turned off the DVR, even unplugged it (altho only for a cpl mins), had turned off my AVR, yet still the DVR wouldn't output DD5.1 (or the AVR wasn't seeing it). Yet plug in another STB, then the DVR again, and it works fine.

Could it be a flaky DVR (since I've never had probs /w AVR before)? Or just attribute it to PFM!?

Thx for troubleshooting help everyone!

Glad to hear you got it working. It could very well have been a flaky DVR or some setting that was inadvertently set on the AVR.

In any case - enjoy the 5.1 :)

It can signal nothing less than a realization that providing terrestrial services is simply not shaping up to be sufficiently profitable to foster growth in competition -- that it is not worth anyone's while to offer more service choices. We've evidently despoiled the marketplace so badly (government imposing regulations and consumers engaging in rampant bargain-hunting) that no company, not even deep-pockets Verizon, can craft a defensible business plan that includes service "everywhere".

Or maybe there's a simpler explanation. Maybe they don't want to provide service "everywhere". Quoting from the article:

That will still leave a third of its service area (excluding the territories it is selling) without fiber.

Turning that around, Verizon has passed two-thirds of its service area with fiber. Looks like the classic monopoly behavior of cream skimming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_skimming) to me.

Okay, maybe Boston is worth wiring. Probably the recession/depression put a crimp in those plans. But Baltimore? Seriously? Didn't we all watch that cop show about them a few years ago? Maybe there's not enough money to be made in decaying inner cities.

If Verizon can achieve 90% of their financial goals by targeting 67% of their service area, then aren't they executing brilliantly?

Give Verizon a few more years of continued huge cash flow, and a few more dividend increases. Then they will look for some other way to spend money. Probably by restarting FiOS deployment in more affluent areas like Alexandria, VA. But it will be on Verizon's terms. If a city wants to be a P.I.T.A., then f*** 'em. WTF is "halted negotiations" supposed to mean, anyway? Why were "negotiations" even needed?

When they restart FiOS, Verizon can walk in to Alexandria and say "here's the deal; take it or leave it". That's called negotiating from strength.

Many ABC programs (Greys,etc.) are sent in PLII. ABC has chosen to steal audio bandwidth to support their stupid "Live well" sub-channel. Overall, ABC has the worst audio quality of all the major channels.

True; much ABC programming is coming across as stereo. And the channel is LOUD - and was the same when I had Comcast.

Weren't we suppose to have a free Showtime preview starting today?

I was a bit early. It's this weekend. Currently Showtime, TMC, Sundance, and Flix free preview.

Or maybe there's a simpler explanation. Maybe they don't want to provide service "everywhere".That's completely consistent with what I said... I was outlining a reasonable explanation for why they wouldn't want to provide service "everywhere", i.e., they were finding that further expansion was simply not going to be sufficiently profitable.

Turning that around, Verizon has passed two-thirds of its service area with fiber. Looks like the classic monopoly behavior of cream skimming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_skimming) to me.Holy heck, some people will throw "monopoly" bs up on the wall wherever they think it could stick. :rolleyes: Here we have a case where a competitor -- competitor -- is simply deciding not to go up against the other competitors already in a specific market. FiOS is effectively an up-start -- to call an up-start a "monopoly" actually goes beyond ridiculous.

The are "cream skimming". Absolutely. And they should. They're overriding obligations drives them to do so.

If Verizon can achieve 90% of their financial goals by targeting 67% of their service area, then aren't they executing brilliantly?They absolutely are.

Give Verizon a few more years of continued huge cash flow, and a few more dividend increases. Then they will look for some other way to spend money. Probably by restarting FiOS deployment in more affluent areas like Alexandria, VA.Or perhaps by then there will be some extra layer to deploy, onto the footprint that they've already deployed fiber. Or perhaps by then the effect of their decision to stop growing their FiOS footprint will have been internalized by the marketplace and the marketplace itself may change into a more profitable environment.

When they restart FiOS, Verizon can walk in to Alexandria and say "here's the deal; take it or leave it". That's called negotiating from strength.Yes, indeed, and as you suggest, letting the consumerist-bent municipalities stew for a few years may be the most appropriate and responsible approach for Verizon.

Glad to hear you got it working. It could very well have been a flaky DVR...

Working now, yes...but I think it might be an issue with the DVR. Watched a movie on Showtime HD last night, and between 2-4 times an hour it would lose the DD5.1 signal...but for probably less than a second. The Onkyo AVR would click (as it normally does when I switch from a DD signal (HD) to an analog SD station). But it would happen so quick that the Onkyo wouldn't even have time to display <Stereo>, it would just go blank (the display as well as the sound), for a second (or less), then come back again in DD5.1.

I thought it might be my optical toslink cable, but I couldn't find my 2nd optical, so I plugged it into the 2nd optcal jack on the Onkyo...still did it. Then this afternoon, I figured I steal the coaxial cable from my DVD player (again), that would eliminate the cable being the issue (since it's been a while since I've used it), but it even did it with the coaxial (which I've never had a problem with when it's been connected to my DVD player). The only other thing I can think of, is that when it did it this afternoon /w the coaxial, it was around the same time the DVR was set to record another program (HD as well)...LOL, it just did it again as I'm typing this, and the other program is still being recorded.

I'm thinking it must be an issue /w the DVR...unless it's just a coincidence that my AVR just happens to be flaking out on me now. Should I have Verizon swap out the DVR? They've been here at the condo the last week or two doing installs...I'm sure they'll be here next week too.

Just found a post (http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r21106500-7216-DVR-Digital-Audio-lost-after-power-cycle)regarding losing DD audio after power cycle on a 7216.

Also other issues /w audio on the 7216...also found the 7216 thread here on AVS, I'll probably post something there too.

FYI: QIP-7216 P1, Release 1.7.1, Build 09.97.

That's completely consistent with what I said... I was outlining a reasonable explanation for why they wouldn't want to provide service "everywhere", i.e., they were finding that further expansion was simply not going to be sufficiently profitable.

We'd have to go digging back through this thread, but I believe the initial projections by Verizon for FiOS deployment did not include opening any new territories after 2010. So I'm guessing they didn't really discover that a complete roll out to every mile of Verizon copper wouldn't be profitable; they knew it all along.

Just found a post (http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r21106500-7216-DVR-Digital-Audio-lost-after-power-cycle)regarding losing DD audio after power cycle on a 7216.

Also other issues /w audio on the 7216...also found the 7216 thread here on AVS, I'll probably post something there too.

FYI: QIP-7216 P1, Release 1.7.1, Build 09.97.

The 7216's have been plagued with issues... mostly HDMI handshake issues, witch manifest themselves as you explained - sudden loss of signal, accompanied by black screen & loss of audio. This takes a second or two, then (usually) it returns. Sometimes, it does not return and you have to force the handshake, by changing channels or cycling inputs on your AVR.

I've long since made Verizon give me a 6416 DVR to replace my 7216. I still get the problem occasionally with the 6416 (more often now that the IMG was upgraded to 1.7.1), but no where near the problems that I had with the 7216. That DVR was a POS!

I know you are using OPT, but it sounds like even that is having issues, too!

I'd call Verizon and have them send you a 6416. You'll have to bitch and complain to get one, since they don't guarantee what you will get for a replacement, but if you're persistent, you'll get one. Just tell them if they send you a 7216, you will send it back and request another.

Be aware that there are many people who are having problems, related to the IMG update of 1.7.1. There is an entire thread over on DSL Forums dedicated to the mess that 1.7.1 has caused. You can read it HERE (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23933773-171-problems).

In any case, it won't cost you anything but time and effort to get a replacement DVR. It's worth it.

We'd have to go digging back through this thread, but I believe the initial projections by Verizon for FiOS deployment did not include opening any new territories after 2010. So I'm guessing they didn't really discover that a complete roll out to every mile of Verizon copper wouldn't be profitable; they knew it all along.That could very-well be true, and I didn't mean to imply that their original intent was to roll out to every mile of Verizon copper (especially since they had already decided that providing any service, even copper service, in some of those areas was no longer worthwhile). Rather, I think it most likely that their plan was to continue deploying into new areas where a profitable business case could be crafted, until there were no such areas left. And they've simply reached that point, now (and for now).

Nat Geo Wild HD on FiOS:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=2152957&#post2152957

The most annoying thing about the 1.7.1 update on my 6416 is I can't get it to retain settings after it's been powered off. I set the SD override to 480i so I can let my AVR handle the upscaling (AVR-2310ci), and it just plunks itself right back to "Off" after I turn the DVR off.

The same goes for the AC outlet. I have an RF modulator plugged into the AC outlet because my 6416 doesn't have an RF output (I feed the signal to SDTVs around the house) and seemingly randomly the outlet will fail to activate unless I flip flop between settings for the AC outlet in the menus.

The most annoying thing about the 1.7.1 update on my 6416 is I can't get it to retain settings after it's been powered off. I set the SD override to 480i so I can let my AVR handle the upscaling (AVR-2310ci), and it just plunks itself right back to "Off" after I turn the DVR off.



This bug has been around for since I got Fios last year, not sure if I had 1.6 back then. But it was definitely there with 1.7 on my 6416. Verizon tech support has no idea how to fix this. And it is an extremely annoying bug.

Nat Geo Wild HD on FiOS:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=2152957&#post2152957

Uh, the HD version certainly is not on Verizon's Lineup. Did you mean to say that it's eventually going to be an HD addition on FIOS or is FIOS trying to smoke out another lie as they did with FSC HD and Crime and Investigation HD?

Verizon never claimed to be adding the HD version of Nat Geo Wild. Hard to lie when it was something that was never said in the first place, but don't let facts get in the way of your ranting.

does anyone know why hbo.go only offers season 2 of "the wire"?

Why add Wild, a channel that competes with Animal Planet and Discovery Channels, plus Nat Geo's other channels, if you are not going to carry it in HD? Waste of bandwidth adding a channel with programming that can be seen elsewhere. Stop adding SD channels, have your heard, HD is the NOW!

Why add Wild, a channel that competes with Animal Planet and Discovery Channels, plus Nat Geo's other channels, if you are not going to carry it in HD? Waste of bandwidth adding a channel with programming that can be seen elsewhere. Stop adding SD channels, have your heard, HD is the NOW!They probably just took FRC's bandwith and replaced it with NatGeoWild. Simple, cheap.

Verizon usually adds HD channels on a quarterly basis, and all in one sitting. Expect NatGeoWild at the next HD channel add. They're also beginning to run out of bandwidth, Eventually, they'll be forced to do some stuff with SD and HD feeds to fit new HD channels in.

Some ideas:

1. Switch HD movie channels (Showtime, Starz, etc.) to MPEG-4, to fit four HD feeds on one transponder. No need to splice local content on these channels, so it's feasible from the VHO end. Some STB switches would be required.
2. Reduce resolution and bitrates of SD channels, to fit more on a single transponder. No STB switches required.
3. Move the international premium channels to IPTV. Of those with these channels, only those with CableCards, TiVo's, and DCT-700 STBs would be affected (in other words: very few people).
4. Convert some transponders to three channels per QAM. Currently, some content providers (I'm looking at you, Turner) send three MPEG-2 HD feeds on each 38 Mbps transponder, so VZ wouldn't need to re-compress these feeds -- just combine them. No STB switches required.

Any idea what channels they will add in the next HD add on? Would really like to see Cartoon Network HD.

No idea, but here are some guesses:

Fox Soccer Channel HD
NatGeoWild HD
Fox College Sports HD (one or more feeds)
Cartoon Network HD
TruTV HD
Turner Classic Movies HD
HLN HD

That's seven to nine HD feeds, usually the number VZ adds each quarter.

Mike: They have added 1 new HD channel this quarter, but there is 1 day left.

As Sting sorta' kinda' sang...

I want my... I want my MSG

From Broadband Reports.com

Verizon Still Struggling To Deliver FiOS Promotional Discounts
Verizon's billing problems will outlive most of us...

By Karl Bode

You might recall that back in 2007 Verizon promised new FiOS users a free, 19" HDTV if they signed up for service -- but our users had a hell of a time actually getting the television set after signing up. Last December Verizon settled with the state of New Jersey to the tune of $795,000 after the company repeatedly promised promotional items which never arrived. According to the Newark Star Ledger, Verizon's still having a hard time delivering promotional items to consumers, be they gift cards, rebates, or discounts for referrals. The paper profiles a user who has been battling with Verizon since October of 2009:

"Parascandola said reps had a different story each time he called. First they said there was no record of a promotion on his account. Then he was told that Verizon had run out of the promotional cards. "They tell me a different thing every time I speak to them," Parascandola said. "The only resolution I would agree to at this point is for them to immediately provide the gift cards as per terms of the contract I have with them."

Verizon's promotional databases must be tied to their notoriously troubled billing systems, which have a long history of phantom charges and errant mistakes (which are vary rarely in the customer's favor). At least in this instance Verizon willing to admit error, though like most Verizon billing mistakes -- it required Verizon being contacted by the press before it was fully resolved. One tip: you may be able to get your carrier to put their sign up promises in writing.

No idea, but here are some guesses:

Fox Soccer Channel HD
NatGeoWild HD
Fox College Sports HD (one or more feeds)
Cartoon Network HD
TruTV HD
Turner Classic Movies HD
HLN HD

That's seven to nine HD feeds, usually the number VZ adds each quarter.Well, based on the firestorm brewing at DSL Reports these last few days, whether they add new channels or not, you can all but guarantee that 2009 Extreme HD subscribers won't be able to view them without re-upping.

From Broadband Reports.com

Interesting. When I signed up for FiOS in December 2007, I had the option of a 19" TV or a $200 Best Buy gift card. I chose the gift card, and received it within about 4 weeks, without any hassles.

Doug

All in all their employees are totally clueless when it comes to billing and pricing. I went into a Verizon store 2 weeks ago and when I asked about the quad bundle the guy told me there was no such thing (this in a store that had a large Fios display at the front door)

I said really cause it's online. I gave up.

Their problem is they have great products, but the company is just too big for the left hand to know what the right hand is doing.

And they need to stop the stuff with a new package every year. Keep it the same for more then 12 months otherwise you totally confuse your customer base.

I have no idea who Karl Bode is, or what his hidden agenda is, but I have yet to see him say anything positive about Verizon.

My area sucks. FIOS is still not available. Comcast sucks.

Any rumors when Verizon will have MASN2 HD?

Well MASN2 HD does not go officially online til 4/7, but nothing has been said about it.

As Sting sorta' kinda' sang...

I want my... I want my MSG

Sorry Larry but this is sorta' kinda' lame. :rolleyes:

The lyric "I want my MTV.." is from the song Money for Nothing by Dire Straits

I was just checking MASN's website to see which channels it's on, and it only listed MASN, MASN2, and MASN HD. Yet, on the O's website, some games are supposed to be airing on MASN2 HD. How am I to figure out what channel that's on? I have Verizon FiOS in Montgomery County; does anyone remember how this worked last season?

Sorry Larry but this is sorta' kinda' lame. :rolleyes:

The lyric "I want my MTV.." is from the song Money for Nothing by Dire Straits
Yes, but Sting sang that lyric in the song.

I was just checking MASN's website to see which channels it's on, and it only listed MASN, MASN2, and MASN HD. Yet, on the O's website, some games are supposed to be airing on MASN2 HD. How am I to figure out what channel that's on? I have Verizon FiOS in Montgomery County; does anyone remember how this worked last season?

For us, MASN2 is on channel 1. As of now, FiOS has not announced whether it's carrying MASN2-HD.

Any idea of when the next add-on will be?

My area sucks. FIOS is still not available. Comcast sucks.


That's a shame. I live in Ewing and we were one of the first neighborhoods wired for FIOS. It took me a while to pull the trigger, but I made the switch from Comcast to FIOS about a year ago and never looked back. Better av quality and the internet speed is terrific.

I thought all of Mercer County was wired?

Yes, but Sting sang that lyric in the song.
The Masked Marvel to the rescue… ;)

Sorry Larry but this is sorta' kinda' lame. :rolleyes:

The lyric "I want my MTV.." is from the song Money for Nothing by Dire Straits
Don't be so quick to roll those eyes...

Now if you would have said something like-- why would you want to watch the lame Knicks on MSGHD, since there rarely is a lieto fine? ...you would’ve sounded more credible. :cool:

Interesting. When I signed up for FiOS in December 2007, I had the option of a 19" TV or a $200 Best Buy gift card. I chose the gift card, and received it within about 4 weeks, without any hassles.

Doug

My mom signed up a few months ago when the promotion was the free netbook. When I told her she didn't need a netbook they told her she could get anything <$300 from HP where the netbook was coming from. She chose a monitor and digital camera. Her stuff came within a few days of placing the order.

Well they learned their lesson after the TV fiasco

Why add Wild ... ?Because some people want to watch the programming that that channel offers.

...Or how about--- Epix is now a free channel and—there will be a movie on it that you will actually want to watch. :p

For us, MASN2 is on channel 1. As of now, FiOS has not announced whether it's carrying MASN2-HD.

MASN2-HD due will also air on other video providers, including Verizon FIOS and on DirecTV.

http://www.pressboxonline.com/story.cfm?id=6040

Off topic comments deleted.

For us, MASN2 is on channel 1. As of now, FiOS has not announced whether it's carrying MASN2-HD.

Verizon almost never announces new channels until they're already on, but here's another clue from MASN's website-
When will my operator carry MASN HD and/or MASN2 HD?

While most of MASN's cable, satellite, and fiber optic affiliates do carry the HD games, the decision is made by each distributor.

You can reach Dish Network by calling 1-888-686-2388, visiting their website.

MASN will never, ever hesitate to get viewers to pester a video provider to carry their channel, and they didn't do that here. I'll be looking for MASN2 HD to be on FiOS next week.

Hopefully this is the right place to ask this:

I'm basically sick of Comcast's incompetence and looking to dump them as soon as hockey season is over. I am fortunate enough to live in an area where FiOS TV and Internet is an option.

I also believe I have enough of a southern look-angle that I could get DirecTV.

FiOS seems to be the more convenient solution for me, but the sticking point is the HD on the Center Ice package. With DTV it seems that most games are carried in HD, but with FiOS it seems that you get the same few-games-a-week on the GAMEHD channel that I get now with Comcast.

My question is, does anyone know if Verizon has any intent at all with FiOS to provide the same level of HD coverage with their Center Ice package that DTV does? If so it really makes the whole decision a no-brainer.

Thanks much for any information!

-- Chris

Clemon-
You ask a very popular question.

DirecTV has their own versions of Extra Innings, Center Ice, and League Pass. Since DTV is a national provider - going in, they are already providing 95% of the sports channels in HD outside of these packages. Then, all they do is re-map the channels to a specific channel group so you can see them all together.

Verizon, Comcast, and other providers all receive the packages from InDemand. At the time, InDemand only provides 1 HD channel (well, apparently 2 for MLB and NHL - but not aware of anyone showing the second one yet).

To explain it - say, a baseball game is on Fox Sports Arizona (or some regional sports net where VZ isn't even the provider). VZ would have to establish an uplink with this channel (and all of the other sports net) just to provide this type of service. You can imagine the costs involved to do this.

This will be a limitation with ANY provider than DirecTV. So, to answer your question, you will be disappointed.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/verizon-is-committed-to-delivering-a-quality-3d-tv-experience-not-just-hype-89766252.html

"...attributed to Shawn Strickland, vice president of FiOS product management for Verizon"

"The market for 3D TV is very early in its development. We're monitoring the early sales of 3D TVs and expect to announce a 3D offering well in advance of the holiday TV-shopping season, when 3D television sales will expand."

Good excuse for not adding any more regular HD channels.....

If they want to do something exciting, why don't they give us an all HD only Package and dump every SD channel ?

Because there are some SD channels not offered in HD that some folks watch.

I like Military Channel, Military History, VH1 Classic, Cartoon network. None of those are carried in HD by Fios at this time (not all of them are available in HD)

This will be a limitation with ANY provider than DirecTV. So, to answer your question, you will be disappointed.

Yeah, this is what I found after I posted and then dug a little further. And it makes sense, I suppose. Ah well. Something to take into account while I am deciding. (Too bad, though...I didn't want to have to split my TV provider and Internet bills, but with Verizon selling off their landline stuff to Frontier in Washington, I am unsure they are still partnered with DTV for billing purposes.)

Thanks much for the response!

Because there are some SD channels not offered in HD that some folks watch.

I like Military Channel, Military History, VH1 Classic, Cartoon network. None of those are carried in HD by Fios at this time (not all of them are available in HD)

Yeah, I really don't see how people can make the claim that they ONLY watch the HD channels. If that's the case you are cutting out a lot of quality programing (and likely adding a lot of junk in the process). I prefer to watch everything in the best quality I can, but it's content first before quality. I'm not going to forgo watching something in SD because it's SD.

Yeah, I really don't see how people can make the claim that they ONLY watch the HD channels. If that's the case you are cutting out a lot of quality programing (and likely adding a lot of junk in the process). I prefer to watch everything in the best quality I can, but it's content first before quality. I'm not going to forgo watching something in SD because it's SD.

I feel the complete opposite. I'm at the point that after 6 years of having HD, I just can't get myself to watch a SD program any longer regardless. If it is not HD, I don't watch. To each their own I guess!

i feel the complete opposite. I'm at the point that after 6 years of having hd, i just can't get myself to watch a sd program any longer regardless. If it is not hd, i don't watch. To each their own i guess!

+1

Yeah, I really don't see how people can make the claim that they ONLY watch the HD channels. If that's the case you are cutting out a lot of quality programing (and likely adding a lot of junk in the process). I prefer to watch everything in the best quality I can, but it's content first before quality. I'm not going to forgo watching something in SD because it's SD.

If it's not HD, it doesn't get viewed. Life is too short to watch crappy SD. Plus, it helps cut down on the chaff, too. If it's worthwhile, it will be broadcast in HD.

I only watch BD films too. If the BD title is unavailable, I'll wait.

I didn't get a PRO141 and a BDP-83 to watch SD.

I mean it's just TV, how many channels of garbage can you watch and still have time for, oh... say.... LIFE!

If it's not HD, it doesn't get viewed. Life is too short to watch crappy SD. Plus, it helps cut down on the chaff, too. If it's worthwhile, it will be broadcast in HD.

I only watch BD films too. If the BD title is unavailable, I'll wait.

I didn't get a PRO141 and a BDP-83 to watch SD.

I mean it's just TV, how many channels of garbage can you watch and still have time for, oh... say.... LIFE!

I don't know, there's an awful lot of good programming on some SD channels; you can deny yourself if you want, but my TV does SD pretty well, so I'll continue to enjoy ALL my channels.

If it's not HD, it doesn't get viewed. Life is too short to watch crappy SD. Plus, it helps cut down on the chaff, too. If it's worthwhile, it will be broadcast in HD.



so sorry, but that statement is beyond absurd. There are so many very good shows/programming not in HD. And the amount of crap in HD is astounding.

Frankly I divide the world of TV watchers into two camps:

1. Content driven, OAR, not worried about filling the screen, appreciates the artistic nature of a movie, etc. These people tend to be more intelligent.

2. Screen fillers. Discard all SD simply because it's SD regardless of fabulous the movie may be. Let's see, if Casablanca wasn't out in HD, it wouldn't be watched. How sad. These people don't impress me and certainly are of a lower intellectual level.

These are simply my observations and do not apply to any particular people, so don't be offended. Just face the facts :D

so sorry, but that statement is beyond absurd. There are so many very good shows/programming not in HD. And the amount of crap in HD is astounding.

Frankly I divide the world of TV watchers into two camps:

1. Content driven, OAR, not worried about filling the screen, appreciates the artistic nature of a movie, etc. These people tend to be more intelligent.

2. Screen fillers. Discard all SD simply because it's SD regardless of fabulous the movie may be. Let's see, if Casablanca wasn't out in HD, it wouldn't be watched. How sad. These people don't impress me and certainly are of a lower intellectual level.

These are simply my observations and do not apply to any particular people, so don't be offended. Just face the facts :D

Now I know why you call yourself Sillysam! :D

so sorry, but that statement is beyond absurd. There are so many very good shows/programming not in HD. And the amount of crap in HD is astounding.

Frankly I divide the world of TV watchers into two camps:

1. Content driven, OAR, not worried about filling the screen, appreciates the artistic nature of a movie, etc. These people tend to be more intelligent.

2. Screen fillers. Discard all SD simply because it's SD regardless of fabulous the movie may be. Let's see, if Casablanca wasn't out in HD, it wouldn't be watched. How sad. These people don't impress me and certainly are of a lower intellectual level.

These are simply my observations and do not apply to any particular people, so don't be offended. Just face the facts :D

Your bipolar view of this is amusing. And, your facts are not supportable.

Yes. Discard all SD, because it is SD. Absolutely. It's horrible compared to HD and almost everything distributed can now be viewed in HD. Unless you are watching re-runs of 60's, 70's, 80's & 90's TV programming. Sorry, been there. Done that. I don't do reruns... of "TV".

I've seen almost everything, over many years & years of film watching and broadcast TV. Amazing, but yes... that content was in SD. Because that was all that was available.

For your example - I have seen Casablanca... many times. When I lived in LA, we went to a very high-end boutique theater that ran the film from a first generation reprint off the original master. It was fabulous. I have also seen the film on VHS and DVD. Why would I ever watch it again in that format?

It's the same with itunes and mp-x. That's crap, too. That medium is for the quantity over quality population. Myself, I prefer quality audio. Life is too short to listen to compressed, low-bit rate garbage. I'm a bigger audio snob than I am a film/video snob. But, that's just me. I freely admit that. I've been a musician for over 30 years. Life is too short to play or listen to crap music.

But, I digress.

I'd submit that most of the people you might be classifying as of a lower intelligence are actually comprised of some very astute viewers. Not your average Joe, who spends endless hours with their Tivo and DVR's, recording and watching GB's of worthless crap. Rather, they prefer (based on their ability to appreciate and intellectual prowness) select enjoyment of the finer aspects of film and television (I loosely include television).

Bundling in these people into your category #2 is quite absurd. In fact, many are quite of the opposite perspective. They most likely have seen most/many of the classic quality films & programming (horrors, probably a very good portion of it in SD, back in the day). Now, they are into quality, not quality. They certainly do not watch crap, be it in HD or SD. As with my opinion about audio, they more concerned with quality not quantity.

And, to be absolutely clear, they in no way care about your opinion of their viewing habits, or misguided and distorted categorization of them. I feel safe in saying, based on your post alone, that you would be at the bottom of the list of people that they might entertain impressing.

Wow. Just wow!

Life is too short to watch crappy SD. Plus, it helps cut down on the chaff, too. If it's worthwhile, it will be broadcast in HD.


Life's too short to hamstring yourself on content as to whether or not it's in HD. I watch quality content and I'll watch it the best way I can, but simply not everything is available in HD.

So, I guess naturally you have FIOS, DirecTV, and Dish as well right? I mean, each one has some non-overlapping HD channels. If everything MUST be in HD, that means you MUST have every HD channel available.

To each his own I guess. I just simply can't understand the mindset that the quality of presentation trumps the quality of content.

so sorry, but that statement is beyond absurd. There are so many very good shows/programming not in HD. Such as? If you're going to blanket everyone who disagrees with you as an idiot, you better have a darn good list at the ready.

I will readily confess that there are millions of hours of horrid HD programming every year. But, I've got to say, there is more than enough top-notch HD programming to fill my down time. Maybe you're burning 60-70 hours a week just watching television?

I don't actively avoid SD programming. But, I don't have to to be entertained.

Such as? If you're going to blanket everyone who disagrees with you as an idiot, you better have a darn good list at the ready.

I will readily confess that there are millions of hours of horrid HD programming every year. But, I've got to say, there is more than enough top-notch HD programming to fill my down time. Maybe you're burning 60-70 hours a week just watching television?

I don't actively avoid SD programming. But, I don't have to to be entertained.

Obviously many people who posted are content driven viewers, not screen filled or HD driven. I read a book based upon it's content, not how the cover looks or the font that it's printed in.

60-70 hours a week??? BWAAAAAA! I thank God that there is so much more in my life than watching TV. There are actually people here who know Neilsen ratings and every show that's on. Watching TV is not a hobby. There is no intellectual reward in watching TV per say. The reward is in the content that is watched and how it affects the mind. I actually work for a living outside of my home. If I'm lucky, I can get in 2 hours of watching a night. So yes, I do chose my content carefully. Frankly, other than not getting to watch as many movies as I'd like, 2 to 3 hours of a few series I like, some Food Network programming and a few other items satisfy my needs quite nicely. Even if I were retired, I doubt I'd be watching more that I currently do. There are just so many other rewarding things in life to do with my time.

So tell me, just how many hours a day do you guys watch TV? Please be honest.

If i buy a tivo premiere from best buy to use with verizon fios,does best buy give you 30 days return policy like tivo.com?

Life's too short to hamstring yourself on content as to whether or not it's in HD. I watch quality content and I'll watch it the best way I can, but simply not everything is available in HD.

So, I guess naturally you have FIOS, DirecTV, and Dish as well right? I mean, each one has some non-overlapping HD channels. If everything MUST be in HD, that means you MUST have every HD channel available.

To each his own I guess. I just simply can't understand the mindset that the quality of presentation trumps the quality of content.

If you made this statement 3 or 4 years ago, I could see your point. But not today, sorry. There is so much out now that is in HD that it rarely leaves any little time to watch it any other way.

If you made this statement 3 or 4 years ago, I could see your point. But not today, sorry. There is so much out now that is in HD that it rarely leaves any little time to watch it any other way.

That's the difference between you and me. I will watch something in SD over something in HD if that something in SD is something I want to watch. That's basically what it boils down to. I watch what I want to watch and what format it is in bears very little relevance on that decision.

That's the difference between you and me. I will watch something in SD over something in HD if that something in SD is something I want to watch. That's basically what it boils down to. I watch what I want to watch and what format it is in bears very little relevance on that decision.

Then why are you in a High Def forum?

Most people here want whatever their watching in HD, if it is not, which is getting very rare these days, then they will wait till it is.

This is not the year 2000 anymore.

Then why are you in a High Def forum?

Most people here want whatever their watching in HD, if it is not, which is getting very rare these days, then they will wait till it is.

This is not the year 2000 anymore.

Because I do watch quite a bit of content in HD?

There's also a difference between wanting what you watch to be in HD and ignoring non-HD content. Would I like everything I watch to be in HD? Absolutely. But that's not going to be the measure of it's worth.

There is still stuff not being produced in HD and there was a lot of stuff that wasn't being produced in HD until very recently (and access to it is very limited). It seems silly to pretend that stuff doesn't exist because it's not in HD.

For example, Top Gear wasn't produced in HD until the most recent series in the fall of 2009. By your logic, the previous 4 series weren't worth my time because they aired past 2007 and weren't in HD and never will be in HD despite having some of the best cinematography on TV right now.

Not that I could really watch the most recent series in HD anyways since FIOS doesn't carry BBC-A HD. I'm sure as hell not going to ignore one of my favorites shows though because I can't watch it in HD.

If you have a spouse like mine HD is nice but...Judge Judy, BBC Hoarders & Kitchen Nightmares. Lifetime & Hallmark movies (anything from Nora Roberts).. don't get those channels in HD. Then there are the HD shows she just doesn't watch in HD like Survivor because she remembers it's on channel 3 & refuses to remember it's HD sibling is on 233 (no I'm not Fios yet, but hoping). Then there's the crime & mayem channel, ID too. I could go on.
So those of you you watching HD only, your watching alone!
:)

Because I do watch quite a bit of content in HD?

There's also a difference between wanting what you watch to be in HD and ignoring non-HD content. Would I like everything I watch to be in HD? Absolutely. But that's not going to be the measure of it's worth.

There is still stuff not being produced in HD and there was a lot of stuff that wasn't being produced in HD until very recently (and access to it is very limited). It seems silly to pretend that stuff doesn't exist because it's not in HD.

For example, Top Gear wasn't produced in HD until the most recent series in the fall of 2009. By your logic, the previous 4 series weren't worth my time because they aired past 2007 and weren't in HD and never will be in HD despite having some of the best cinematography on TV right now.

Not that I could really watch the most recent series in HD anyways since FIOS doesn't carry BBC-A HD. I'm sure as hell not going to ignore one of my favorites shows though because I can't watch it in HD.

I would assume anything that was of any remote interest to you that was not in HD but is now, you have already watched. That is exactly the point I'm getting at. FiOS has over a 130 HD channels plus most new movie releases come out on BD, it really leaves very little else in SD that you probably have not already seen.

I would assume anything that was of any remote interest to you that was not in HD but is now, you have already watched.

Well, that's simply not true. That's about all there is to it. I guess we'll have to leave it at that.

Also, until Verizon sees fit to carry every HD channel in existence, there's going to continue to be first run material that I cannot watch in HD.

If it's not HD, it doesn't get viewed. Life is too short to watch crappy SD. ... I mean it's just TV, how many channels of garbage can you watch and still have time for, oh... say.... LIFE!so sorry, but that statement is beyond absurd.No, not absurd; just simply something you disagree with. I think Steve may have engaged in a little hyperbole there, but all-in-all he has a point AFAIC. There is more than enough worthwhile HD to watch, that there is no need to draw on SD programming to keep my wife and I very happily entertained and appreciably informed.

Frankly I divide the world of TV watchers into two camps:Yeah, me too: (1) People who venerate their own viewing preferences way too much such that they insist on trying to cast the viewing preferences of others as being, in some way, morally offensive; and (2) everyone else. ;)

These are simply my observations and do not apply to any particular people, so don't be offended. Just face the facts :DDitto.

I'd submit that most of the people you might be classifying as of a lower intelligence are actually comprised of some very astute viewers. Not your average Joe, who spends endless hours with their Tivo and DVR's, recording and watching GB's of worthless crap. Rather, they prefer (based on their ability to appreciate and intellectual prowness) select enjoyment of the finer aspects of film and television (I loosely include television).However, even as such, you might be over-thinking this: You, like Sam, are trying to singularly-categorize television viewing, as if everyone (somehow) must be engaging in the activity for the same reasons. That's simply not reasonable.

Actually, all I am saying is this:

There is more than enough *new* quality HD content, that I choose not to watch anything in SD. Why? Because, a) it's probably a rerun. b) it doesn't appeal to me. c) eventually, it may be delivered in HD; I'll wait. And, if it isn't... I'll pass on it... too bad. It's just TV.

And, most importantly, because SD picture quality looks like crap. For the 8-12 hours of weekly viewing that we do (which would also include a BD film rental), there is no reason to watch crappy SD.

I really don't give a rat's ass what other people watch and in what format they watch it. I'm not passing judgement, nor am I seeking approval.

Keep in mind, this is the FIOS HDTV Forum. The reason I have FIOS is for their HD picture quality and choice of HD channels. That said, I don't watch crap programming, either. Judge Judy in HD is just as much crap as it is in SD :) And, the Cartoon Network? I stopped watching cartoons when I stopped crapping in my pants.

Please, please, Oh worshippers of SD. Tell me what is so important and life-changing on SD television, that you can't possibly do without it.

This ought to be fun.

Actually, all I am saying is this:

There is more than enough *new* quality HD content, that I choose not to watch anything in SD. Why? Because, a) it's probably a rerun. b) it doesn't appeal to me. c) eventually, it may be delivered in HD; I'll wait. And, if it isn't... I'll pass on it... too bad. It's just TV.

And, most importantly, because SD picture quality looks like crap. For the 8-12 hours of weekly viewing that we do (which would also include a BD film rental), there is no reason to watch crappy SD.

I really don't give a rat's ass what other people watch and in what format they watch it. I'm not passing judgement, nor am I seeking approval.

Keep in mind, this is the FIOS HDTV Forum. The reason I have FIOS is for their HD picture quality and choice of HD channels. That said, I don't watch crap programming, either. Judge Judy in HD is just as much crap as it is in SD :) And, the Cartoon Network? I stopped watching cartoons when I stopped crapping in my pants.

Please, please, Oh worshippers of SD. Tell me what is so important and life-changing on SD television, that you can't possibly do without it.

This ought to be fun.

LOL! Yup, if it's any good, it's must only be in SD. I can't believe were even having this conversation in 2010.:D

...Tell me what is so important and life-changing on SD television, that you can't possibly do without it....
My wife's credit card statement went up exponentially when QVC was available in high def. Perhaps I can have it removed so that it's only on in SD??? :D

My wife's credit card statement went up exponentially when QVC was available in high def. Perhaps I can have it removed so that it's only on in SD??? :D

Do what I do... cull the herd.

Use FAVORITES. Set up the channels that you want to appear in the guide as FAVORITES and enable the guide to display FAVORITES ONLY.

Problem Solved :)

Please, please, Oh worshippers of SD. Tell me what is so important and life-changing on SD television, that you can't possibly do without it.


It doesn't have to be important and life-changing. It just has to be fun. This is all entertainment after all. My fun isn't hampered by the format of the content.

For me…

It’s all about the picture quality, always has been always will be.

It’s like eating. When enjoying a meal, why waste calories on crap food? Sure it will fill you up or give you some substance but why not eat the best, healthiest, most delectable foods you can. Give me a gourmet meal anytime. :)

This is actually a difficult rule to follow for dinning but as far as television is concerned, it’s all HD-- unless I’m absolutely starving with no other choice. ;)

It’s like eating. When enjoying a meal, why waste calories on crap food? Sure it will fill you up or give you some substance but why not eat the best, healthiest, most delectable foods you can. Give me a gourmet meal anytime. :)


To use your analogy:

I had one of the best fish sandwiches in my life last night, it just happened to be in an utter dive of a bar. The place was dark, smoky, cramped and hot. None of that mattered though. That sandwich is exactly what I wanted to eat and I wasn't going to get it anywhere else.

But I guess I'm done with this argument and derail. All verizon has to do is bring us the remaining amount of HD stations they don't carry then we won't have to worry about it as much :)

And, the Cartoon Network? I stopped watching cartoons when I stopped crapping in my pants.
So, Justice League tonight then? :)

Sorry to tell you this stevec but Cartoon Network is one of the most popular channels on cable, and cartoons/animation is still one of the biggest draws in the movies (no pun intended). If you don't like it that's fine, but plenty of us do. Brave and the Bold, the new Batman show is one of the better animated shows on tv, it's certainly not just for kids, and looks stellar in HD. I can't wait for FIOS to start carrying CN.

So, Justice League tonight then? :)

Nah, that conflicts with the Ball of String in HD episode that I've been dying to see :)

Sorry to tell you this stevec but Cartoon Network is one of the most popular channels on cable, and cartoons/animation is still one of the biggest draws in the movies (no pun intended). If you don't like it that's fine, but plenty of us do. Brave and the Bold, the new Batman show is one of the better animated shows on tv, it's certainly not just for kids, and looks stellar in HD. I can't wait for FIOS to start carrying CN.

Shhhh... be vewy, vewy qwiet. Don't tell anyone. I watch the new Batman show (in SD, too horrors) with my grandson. We just rented "Up" too. Loved it! That said, last time I was over the kids house, my granddaughter was watching some POS called Ruby & Max?!?!?!? She's 2 YO and loves that show. I just wanted to shove a stick in my eye, however. OMFG - the crap that kids watch these days.

Of course my parents must have said that about the crap I watched as a kid too.

And, to be clear... honestly, I am not passing judgement on anyone for their preferences. I'm just offering up my choices for berating and judgement :)

Don't we have CN on FIOS? At least in SD? It is a hugely popular channel.

This is your reminder for the 4th remaining :( shuttle launch. Weather is 80% go. DVR locked-n-loaded.

Launch countdown operations are on schedule with no issues to report, according to officials at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida during the STS-131 L-2 prelaunch briefing. Space shuttle Discovery is set to launch at 6:21 a.m. EDT Monday.

Mon, Apr 5 - 6:00 AM ET 3:00 AM PT NASA on HDNet - LIVE!
Space Shuttle Discovery STS-131 Launch - In its next-to-final flight, Space Shuttle Discovery launches for the International Space Station, carrying a crew of four men and three women. They will transport more than six tons of equipment, supplies, and spare parts to help stock the Space Station.

You can also catch the repeat: Sat, Apr 10 - 7:30 AM ET 4:30 AM

Latest Space Shuttle News (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/main/index.html)

NASA TV live coverage starts at 1:15 AM Monday.

Yeah, we do have it in SD, but who cares about SD? This a thread about Verizon HD. Once you see Brave and the Bold in HD there's no going back.

..I stopped watching cartoons when I stopped crapping in my pants...Who knows, maybe one day, you will once again enjoy cartoons. :p :D

Who knows, maybe one day, you will once again enjoy cartoons. :p :D

Maybe. I'm pretty sure that I'll start crapping in my pants again, so all things are possible :)

On and on and on. Good God! (but the crapping in the pants again part did make me smile)

I have literally over 100 HD channels with Verizon. Since they moved Comedy channel to HD, I have no need to ever look at the SD channels again. I already feel the choices are overwhelming in just the HD tier, so I have no need nor inclination to venture outside of that.
For me, the balance tipped during the last big HD channel rollout, and if all my SD channels disappeared, I probably wouldn't notice. I am grateful and amazed how far we've come in the last 8 years or so when I got my first HD tv and I got about 9 HD channels through D* and struggled to get 2 locals via antenna.
Now I'm waiting for my first 4K channel...

Yeah, we do have it in SD, but who cares about SD? This a thread about Verizon HD. Once you see Brave and the Bold in HD there's no going back.

I've tried to like B&B...really. But it's just too dumb and silly. Good for fans of the camp 60s BATMAN, I guess. But we lost the far superior JUSTICE LEAGUE for this?

I'm starting to tip in the favor of those clamoring for more HD again.

If you remember, it's been almost 6 months since the last "more than 1 channel" HD add, and that was the 4 Rainbow media channels.

Comcast in my region now has 12-15 HD channels that FIOS does not even carry.

So - Yudaman, if you are out there - I'm beginning to drink your kool-aid!

VZ needs to step it up - and create some more channel capacity.

Step up for what? The fundamental question is whether there are any HD channels out there that will drive a substantial number of consumers to switch to FiOS, and/or drive a substantial number of consumers to stick with FiOS. I'm personally waiting for BBC America HD, but FiOS' advantages with regard to broadband service are so significant that even if Comcast gets BBC America HD and FiOS TV does not, I won't switch back to Comcast. There isn't enough HD channels left (including, I suspect, all the HD channels that are going to be introduced over the next few years) to represent enough of a motivator for enough consumers to warrant considerations along the lines you've outlined.

I think, from here on, the reason we'll see new HD channels is because the broadcaster wants the HD channel seen, rather than because consumers want the HD channel.

You want more HD channels -- no one can question that. However, are you really going to switch back to Comcast if you don't get them? Apparently, even über-basher Yudaman hasn't. And even if you, personally, would, if it is just you and a handful of others, that really doesn't justify what you've said, i.e., that, "VZ needs to step it up..." You may want them to, but that doesn't mean that they "need" to.

BTW, so we all know what we're all talking about, please list the 12-15 HD channels that Comcast has in your area that FiOS does not.

Comcast in my region now has 12-15 HD channels that FIOS does not even carry.



Please list those channels. Thanks

bick, I don't think jeepmatt is even considering a switch to Comcast since he has ties with Verizon and is the #1 source in this thread for providing info.

But he may be coming down with a case of needmorehditus :)

bick, I don't think jeepmatt is even considering a switch to Comcast since he has ties with Verizon and is the #1 source in this thread for providing info.Well, I wouldn't be so cavalier about saying that he's not being sincere in his statement of that there is a "need". I'll be interested to see his clarification.

I've tried to like B&B...really. But it's just too dumb and silly. Good for fans of the camp 60s BATMAN, I guess. But we lost the far superior JUSTICE LEAGUE for this?The Bruce Timm series have been gone for years now. There was a regular Batman show on for 5yrs previous to this which had nothing to do with JL as well.

So - Yudaman, if you are out there - I'm beginning to drink your kool-aid!

VZ needs to step it up - and create some more channel capacity.

Oh no! God help us all, he's gone to the dark side. :D

I'm starting to tip in the favor of those clamoring for more HD again.

If you remember, it's been almost 6 months since the last "more than 1 channel" HD add, and that was the 4 Rainbow media channels.

Comcast in my region now has 12-15 HD channels that FIOS does not even carry.

So - Yudaman, if you are out there - I'm beginning to drink your kool-aid!

VZ needs to step it up - and create some more channel capacity.

Look, at this point anything I say is going to create a firestorm of hate and another round of "Yudaman, seriously???" remarks. But I stand by what I've stated over and over that this cable company really needs to step up their A game. Any delayed responses will continue to bring more irate customers.

Look, at this point anything I say is going to create a firestorm of hate and another round of "Yudaman, seriously???" remarks. But I stand by what I've stated over and over that this cable company really needs to step up their A game. Any delayed responses will continue to bring more irate customers.

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore! :D

Step up for what? The fundamental question is whether there are any HD channels out there that will drive a substantial number of consumers to switch to FiOS, and/or drive a substantial number of consumers to stick with FiOS. I'm personally waiting for BBC America HD, but FiOS' advantages with regard to broadband service are so significant that even if Comcast gets BBC America HD and FiOS TV does not, I won't switch back to Comcast. There isn't enough HD channels left (including, I suspect, all the HD channels that are going to be introduced over the next few years) to represent enough of a motivator for enough consumers to warrant considerations along the lines you've outlined.

I think, from here on, the reason we'll see new HD channels is because the broadcaster wants the HD channel seen, rather than because consumers want the HD channel.

You want more HD channels -- no one can question that. However, are you really going to switch back to Comcast if you don't get them? Apparently, even über-basher Yudaman hasn't. And even if you, personally, would, if it is just you and a handful of others, that really doesn't justify what you've said, i.e., that, "VZ needs to step it up..." You may want them to, but that doesn't mean that they "need" to.

BTW, so we all know what we're all talking about, please list the 12-15 HD channels that Comcast has in your area that FiOS does not.I see a couple flaws with this theory.

Verizon has stated that their goal for the coming years is to improve the FiOS attach rate, which currently sits at about 18-20%, before they begin expansion into new territories. I believe they've even stated that they'd like to double it, to something close to 40%. The only way you do this is by offering clearly superior service, as they did when they first introduced FiOS. Two years ago, Verizon offered unparalleled service, particularly in the HD category (the first provider with over 100 HD channels). That advantage has now been totally wiped out in most markets, particularly those where FiOS exists. The cable providers offer comparable channel offerings and comparable internet service at, generally speaking, lower prices.

If Verizon wants to continue charging a premium for FiOS successfully, it's going to have to up the quality of service. Six months from now, if Verizon has not added any new HD channels, I can guarantee you they will not be the HD leader. They will probably not even be in the top three nationally.

And that's a problem not just for improving the attach rate but also for Verizon's ongoing FiOS marketing campaign, which from the beginning has been that FiOS is unquestionably the best service with the most complete offerings and the latest technology--over 120 HD channels, blazing fast internet, crystal clear picture, this is big, etc.

This is probably why they have stuck steadfastly to two channels per QAM even though many, including yourself, have documented that three channels per QAM can be accomplished without any noticeable PQ degradation in most cases. If Verizon went the three-per-QAM route, they could add every existing HD channel and still have room for about 25 more, but they'd have to sacrifice a major marketing bullet point, something they are apparently unwilling to do (and unnecessary given Verizon's ability to shift low-viewed channels to IPTV).

We know that work is well underway to shift low-viewed channels to IPTV to free up more QAM. We also know that Verizon has already announced it will make a push this fall into the 3DTV market "well in time" (or language similar) for the Christmas holiday. Clearly, they're not resting on their laurels. Everyone knows that in another couple months, DirecTV is going to raise the bar with a substantial addition of HD channels and new 3D offerings. It was more than likely DirecTV's push in 2006 for 100 HD channels that convinced Verizon to make the immediate outlay for all of its VHOs to full QAM capacity so that FiOS too could offer over 100 HD channels.

Verizon is already restructuring their bundles and removing HD channels from the 2009 Extreme HD lineup. Most of them are filler (the .TVs, for instance), but you can bet that this means Verizon will use the leverage of new HD channels to force customers to upgrade and lock in another one year contract.

Sorry to tell you this stevec but Cartoon Network is one of the most popular channels on cable, and cartoons/animation is still one of the biggest draws in the movies (no pun intended). If you don't like it that's fine, but plenty of us do. Brave and the Bold, the new Batman show is one of the better animated shows on tv, it's certainly not just for kids, and looks stellar in HD. I can't wait for FIOS to start carrying CN.

Nobody's mentioned Adult Swim on Cartoon Network?!?!?
That's the best part of Cartoon Network, it's Adult Swim!
I just switched from DirecTV to FiOS last week, and was dissapointed no Cartoon Network HD. :( Hopefully soon please.

Here's the list of 14 channels in my region that Comcast has recently added that FIOS does not carry:

CNN Headline News
E! HD
Style HD
TruTV HD
CBS College Sports HD
The Comcast Network HD (regional Philly overflow channel)
TV One HD
BET HD
G4 HD
History International HD
Cartoon Network HD
Gospel Music Channel HD
Turner Classic Movies HD (TCM)
Investigation Discovery HD

Granted, personally I wouldn't watch all of these anyway (BET, TV One, Gospel, etc...) - but, there are more than a handful in there i'd love to have. As i've stated previously, I watch 2 SD channels on FIOS right now - well, 3 if I throw Weatherscan Local on to get a quick forecast. If it's in HD - i'll watch it.

(And no - i'm not thinking of going back to Comcast...hahhaha...c'mon now!)

Verizon has stated that their goal for the coming years is to improve the FiOS attach rate, which currently sits at about 18-20%, before they begin expansion into new territories. I believe they've even stated that they'd like to double it, to something close to 40%. The only way you do this is by offering clearly superior service, as they did when they first introduced FiOS.I see a couple flaws with this theory. Most critically, in our Wal-Mart mentality-driven consumer marketplace, the most effective way to deepen market penetration is to keep your prices low while your competitors raise theirs -- essentially go lower-market. Second, Verizon has outlined profitability goals, so anything along the lines of as Matt said, "create some more channel capacity," that costs money would work against those goals. Which goals do you think have greater priority? That's right -- the profitability goals.

Two years ago, Verizon offered unparalleled service, particularly in the HD category (the first provider with over 100 HD channels). That advantage has now been totally wiped out in most markets, particularly those where FiOS exists.And very likely the value of such an advantage is gone, too. While initially, many consumers were snowed-over by such claims, over time, they've realized that more isn't necessarily that much better, since it seems every new channel added has less and less worthwhile programming.

Indeed, Dish Network is actually making a point of of this dichotomy in their recent commercials, recognizing that there is more traction to be had with regard to overriding obligations by acknowledging and respecting the overly-price-sensitive consumer market, rather than ignoring what really drives consumers, and trying to tell consumers that more HD is what is good for them.

The cable providers offer comparable channel offerings and comparable internet service at, generally speaking, lower prices.While it is true that in some areas the cable companies are now providing comparable channel offerings (especially since the gaps that do remain are probably only with regard to HD channels that are, in the estimations of most folks, pretty much worthless), the other differences simply are either in FiOS' favor or aren't significant. For Internet service, FiOS is, by far, the best, by a wide margin. With regard to cost, while FiOS still costs more than Comcast, here, it isn't that big of a difference.

If Verizon wants to continue charging a premium for FiOS successfully, it's going to have to up the quality of service.Or just stop raising rates as fast as the cable companies, and settle into healthy competition. It is unquestionably a consumerist's wet-dream for competitors to continually wage war against each other, but smart companies don't do that: They bob-and-weave and eventually abandon all wars, because in wars everyone leaves bloody, and that doesn't serve the overriding obligations for any of the suppliers. FiOS has used up enough of its owners' money trying to gain market share. How much longer do you think Verizon owners are going to put up with a money-losing operation, when instead they could be capitalizing on a cash cow?

Six months from now, if Verizon has not added any new HD channels, I can guarantee you they will not be the HD leader.I suspect that DirecTV will continue along the HD channels path, because they face some really difficult challenges pursuing other ways forward. Essentially, they're making it unprofitable for any other supplier to go down the same path, seemingly willing to go down with knife in hand. Effectively, they're boxed into a corner. They can't go "low-cost" because Dish Network has already staked out that direction. So they have to go "most HD channels" even though consumers are wearying from that bit of silliness. FiOS is well-served to move onto some other approach.

And FiOS has made it very clear what direction they're going: "Best Price Guaranteed"; "100% Fiber Optics ... to the Home"; "#1 in Customer Satisfaction".

They say "over 100 HD channels" -- not "the most". They make no claims that they're even going to pursue that. So I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they are.

And that's a problem not just for improving the attach rate but also for Verizon's ongoing FiOS marketing campaign, which from the beginning has been that FiOS is unquestionably the best service with the most complete offerings and the latest technology--over 120 HD channels, blazing fast internet, crystal clear picture, this is big, etc.They still have all that. It's all true.

You're corrupting your perception of their marketing campaign, it seems, by thinking that that 120 number needs to increase precipitously. It's a big number. And again, consumers are going to care more about the numbers in the price, then how many worthless channels FiOS adds from here on in.

This is probably why they have stuck steadfastly to two channels per QAM even though many, including yourself, have documented that three channels per QAM can be accomplished without any noticeable PQ degradation in most cases.That's not a quantity issue, which is what you've been claiming, and I've been objecting to.

While it is true that 3-muxing causes no noticeable degradation in PQ, that won't preclude Verizon from claiming otherwise, and making a big deal about how their competitors employ such measures, while they do not.

One thing you learn in marketing is that you have to change things up over time, or your consumers see how you've been snowing them all along. That's the main reason why Verizon now needs to focus on something other than HD channels, whether it be its superior broadband service, new technologies (such as some you mentioned), or something else.

Here's the list of 14 channels in my region that Comcast has recently added that FIOS does not carry:

CNN Headline News
E! HD
Style HD
TruTV HD
CBS College Sports HD
The Comcast Network HD (regional Philly overflow channel)
TV One HD
BET HD
G4 HD
History International HD
Cartoon Network HD
Gospel Music Channel HD
Turner Classic Movies HD (TCM)
Investigation Discovery HD

Granted, personally I wouldn't watch all of these anyway (BET, TV One, Gospel, etc...) - but, there are more than a handful in there i'd love to have.

Actually, many of these channels have little appeal to no HD appeal. Most have nearly zero HD programming (like TCM-HD, G4-HD) or show standard def in a stretched mode. Or it's overkill. (As we have CNN, FOX, and MSNBC in HD already, do we really need CNN HEADLINE as well?) If more channels are added, I'd hope for something that actually has HD programming, such as BBC-HD. But otherwise, this is one time I agree with bicker01...more is not necessarily better. When FIOS does add some of the channels you've mentioned, maybe by then their HD content will improve enough for them to be actually worth the bandwidth.

Most of Cartoon Network's Adult Swim block is in HD now and I really really want CN HD before the 2nd half of the current Venture Bros season airs.

Most of BBC-A's new content will be in HD, and even the old stuff will be widescreen properly upscaled to fill the screen (and since it's PAL it will have more lines to start with.)

Those are basically the two stations I want at this point. If they give me those, I won't want for anything else for quite awhile.

I just want FSC-HD added and I'll be a happy camper..for now. ;)

Anybody here uses fiostvcentral to access DVR via web ?
It has not been working for me for last 4-5 days (Portland, OR). Wondering if anybody else is facing this issue.

Anybody here uses fiostvcentral to access DVR via web ?
It has not been working for me for last 4-5 days (Portland, OR). Wondering if anybody else is facing this issue.

Just tried it. No problems.

(I know it's not HD (for now)), but I'm very pleased to announce that for Philly sports fans in VHO8 (DE/PA/SNJ) - The Comcast Network has gone live today on Channel 99.

This will be SD only (at least for now) - and apparently will also be fed to the Harrisburg, PA VHO (if someone out there can confirm).

This is a great move by VZ - especially with the pivotal Flyers game on TCN tonight.

For those unaware, TCN acts as an paid programming / sports overflow channel for Philly sports, similar to CSN+ in the DC area.

It's a great day!

Now, if only MASN2 HD launches tomorrow - it will be a good week!

This is probably why they have stuck steadfastly to two channels per QAM even though many, including yourself, have documented that three channels per QAM can be accomplished without any noticeable PQ degradation in most cases. If Verizon went the three-per-QAM route, they could add every existing HD channel and still have room for about 25 more, but they'd have to sacrifice a major marketing bullet point, something they are apparently unwilling to do (and unnecessary given Verizon's ability to shift low-viewed channels to IPTV).



It's the 'without any noticeable PQ degradation' and 'in most cases' that disturbs me. It's a slippery slope and D* went that route angering many viewers looking for the best PQ.

It's the 'without any noticeable PQ degradation' and 'in most cases' that disturbs me. It's a slippery slope and D* went that route angering many viewers looking for the best PQ.

The issue as I see it is that as channels shift to MPEG4 distribution, there's not going to be any such thing as pushing out the channels to us exactly how they get them until they light up MPEG4 distribution.

They are going to have to start transcoding more and more content as time goes on unless they make the wholesale move to MPEG4 themselves. One could argue that unless the MPEG4 feed is of higher quality than the existing MPEG2 stream, then the transcode to MPEG2 for distribution on FIOS will be inferior to what we have now at even the same bitrates.

Basically, unless FIOS rolls out MPEG4 content, we are going to likely see a measurable (if not noticeable) reduction in quality in the long term anyways.

At that point, it becomes a debate as to whether 3:1 transcoded MPEG4 channels look significantly worse than 2:1 transcoded MPEG4 channels.

It's the 'without any noticeable PQ degradation' and 'in most cases' that disturbs me. It's a slippery slope ....... it becomes a debate as to whether 3:1 transcoded MPEG4 channels look significantly worse than 2:1 transcoded MPEG4 channels.The point is that it doesn't become a debate, except in the minds of folks who cannot fathom how their own personal perspective could fail to be imposed on everyone else. The rules have been made very clear (even though many folks wish that the rules were different).

The rules say that bitrate (for example) is not a legitimate criteria. As Ken pointed out, the criteria is whether there is any significantly noticeable degradation. It explicitly, and deliberately (it was not an oversight or a mistake), leaves the determination in the realm of reasonable people being reasonable, relying on a typical person's eye, thereby excluding from consideration the higher expectations (which, as a result of this, are clearly categorized as unfounded) inherent in physical measurements, or even the determinations by folks who perhaps have the ability to detect differences that a typical person does not notice.

Let's be real clear about why this is the case: It is a reflection of a balancing between viewer perspectives and broadcaster perspectives. The viewer perspective could readily include, "I want the PQ to be perfectly perfect in every way." And the broadcaster perspective could readily include, "We can send out 480i if we want." Both of those perspectives are not justifiable. Instead, our society strikes a compromise somewhere in between

This will be SD only (at least for now) - and apparently will also be fed to the Harrisburg, PA VHO (if someone out there can confirm).

Nothing here in Hershey, PA - near Harrisburg.

All Channel Guide still shows 94 CBS-CollegeSportsNet and then 100 CNN.
Hit 99 and the STB drops back to channel 94.

* 599 still has Cars.tv, yuck !

Dmon-
I confirmed H'burg will eventually get TCN - but not today.